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<noinclude> | |||
'''fu'ivla''' is a morphologically defined [[brivla]] (verb word) in Lojban, a "borrowed word" (with the literal meaning ''copy word''). | |||
==History== | |||
Formerly called '''le'avla''', a more literal [[calque]] of "loan word". | |||
*[[pne]]: | |||
**The shift from '''le'avla''' to '''fu'ivla''' may have come from Colin Fine<ref>http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/msg00075.html</ref> who wanted to start using '''fu'ivla''' instead of '''le'avla'''. At that time, there appears to have been a little discussion as to whether '''fu'ivla''' was a better word for the concept<ref>http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/threads.html#00076</ref>. | |||
==Types of fu'ivla== | |||
There are four ways to borrow a word into Lojban, with increasing degree of integration: | |||
*Type 1 fu'ivla: '''me la'o ly.''' + word in original spelling + '''ly.''' E.g. '''me la'o ly. Phascolarctos .ly.''' | |||
**'''ly.''' is for Latin since we borrow this word from Latin. However, any other letter is possible. Officially, the choice of word is quite arbitrary. People get used to '''gy.''' (from '''glico''' - ''English''). | |||
** Another variant on Method 1 is '''me la'e zoi gy. Phascolarctos .gy.''' | |||
** [[And Rosta]]: | |||
*** Methods 1 & 2 are also less integrated syntactically. '''me''' has only an x1 (x2 was almost never used). Hence they won't work for fu'ivla that need to be polyadic. | |||
*Type 2 fu'ivla: '''me la''' + Lojbanized [[cmevla]]. E.g. '''me la faskolerktos.''' | |||
**[[mark]]: | |||
*** It is OK for noun-like brivla, but less fitting for verb-like brivla, which might have other places. Granted, noun-like ones are much more common. Still, even something like '''cmacrnintegrali''' (''integral'' in the calculus sense) is likely to have a place structure like ''x1 is the integral of x2 with respect to variable x3'' or some such. These other places can't always be intuited for Type 3 and Type 4 fu'ivla. | |||
*[[Type 3 fu'ivla]]: [[gismu]] + buffer consonant(s) + Lojbanized word. E.g. '''mabrnfaskolarkto''' | |||
**[[CLL]] indicates that the canonical form of fu'ivla morphologically is Type 3, with four-letter [[rafsi]] prefixes. | |||
***[[rab.spir|rab.spir]]: | |||
**** Four-letter prefixes are recommended only because if you use a three-letter prefix and don't check for a consonant cluster, you might end up making a non-fu'ivla. With tools like [[vlatai|vlatai]] at our disposal, we shouldn't be afraid of 3-letter rafsi prefixes, which can sometimes give nicer, less "crunchy" words ('''djarspageti''', for example, is much nicer than '''cidjrspageti'''). | |||
*** [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]: | |||
**** Generic ideological objections: (1) the 4-letter version is completely predictable, the 3-letter isn't; (2) I won't be running vlatai in face-to-face interaction; (3) of course fu'ivla should be crunchy -- how else will I realise immediately they aren't lujvo? | |||
** [[phma]]: | |||
*** 3-letter rafsi fu'ivla are valid type 3 only if the rafsi is of CVC form. At least that's what vlatai thinks. | |||
**** [[rab.spir|rab.spir]]: | |||
***** My copy of vlatai parses '''djarspageti '''just fine. | |||
**** Do make sure you're using the absolutely latest vlatai. It was a target of many bug fixes in 0.37 | |||
**** No convention exists for what vowel to choose as the final vowel of a loan word, if it ends in a consonant in the source language, and that language's morphology does not suggest a suitable final vowel (unlike the case for [[Borrowing words from Graeco-Latin|Latin]]). [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] proposes in the [http://ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less12fuhivla.html lessons] that the final vowel simply be repeated; e.g. Mamluke - '''mamluk '''=> '''prenrmamluk<u>u</u>'''. | |||
****Another (previous?) proposal was that the final vowel of the gismu used as prefix be used: '''pren-r-mamluk-u''' (in this case happily both conventions agree) | |||
*****Counterexample: '''zgik<u>e</u>''' + '''r<u>o</u>k''' -> '''zgikrnrok<u>o</u>''' vs. '''zgikrnrok<u>e</u>'''. | |||
****** I think you've added an extra hyphen to '''zgiknroko''' and '''zgiknroke'''. I've never heard of nrock music. | |||
*******The advantage the former proposal has is that it is also usable for Type 4 fu'ivla, whereas the latter is only usable for Type 3. | |||
*[[type 4 fu'ivla|Type 4 fu'ivla]]: Lojbanized word, with clusters to guarantee it will not fall apart morphologically. E.g. '''fasxo larto''' | |||
== References == | |||
<references /> | |||
</noinclude> |
Latest revision as of 12:30, 30 September 2014
- fu'ivla
- Borrowed word
fu'ivla is a morphologically defined brivla (verb word) in Lojban, a "borrowed word" (with the literal meaning copy word).
History
Formerly called le'avla, a more literal calque of "loan word".
- pne:
Types of fu'ivla
There are four ways to borrow a word into Lojban, with increasing degree of integration:
- Type 1 fu'ivla: me la'o ly. + word in original spelling + ly. E.g. me la'o ly. Phascolarctos .ly.
- ly. is for Latin since we borrow this word from Latin. However, any other letter is possible. Officially, the choice of word is quite arbitrary. People get used to gy. (from glico - English).
- Another variant on Method 1 is me la'e zoi gy. Phascolarctos .gy.
- And Rosta:
- Methods 1 & 2 are also less integrated syntactically. me has only an x1 (x2 was almost never used). Hence they won't work for fu'ivla that need to be polyadic.
- Type 2 fu'ivla: me la + Lojbanized cmevla. E.g. me la faskolerktos.
- mark:
- It is OK for noun-like brivla, but less fitting for verb-like brivla, which might have other places. Granted, noun-like ones are much more common. Still, even something like cmacrnintegrali (integral in the calculus sense) is likely to have a place structure like x1 is the integral of x2 with respect to variable x3 or some such. These other places can't always be intuited for Type 3 and Type 4 fu'ivla.
- mark:
- Type 3 fu'ivla: gismu + buffer consonant(s) + Lojbanized word. E.g. mabrnfaskolarkto
- CLL indicates that the canonical form of fu'ivla morphologically is Type 3, with four-letter rafsi prefixes.
- rab.spir:
- Four-letter prefixes are recommended only because if you use a three-letter prefix and don't check for a consonant cluster, you might end up making a non-fu'ivla. With tools like vlatai at our disposal, we shouldn't be afraid of 3-letter rafsi prefixes, which can sometimes give nicer, less "crunchy" words (djarspageti, for example, is much nicer than cidjrspageti).
- nitcion:
- Generic ideological objections: (1) the 4-letter version is completely predictable, the 3-letter isn't; (2) I won't be running vlatai in face-to-face interaction; (3) of course fu'ivla should be crunchy -- how else will I realise immediately they aren't lujvo?
- rab.spir:
- phma:
- 3-letter rafsi fu'ivla are valid type 3 only if the rafsi is of CVC form. At least that's what vlatai thinks.
- rab.spir:
- My copy of vlatai parses djarspageti just fine.
- Do make sure you're using the absolutely latest vlatai. It was a target of many bug fixes in 0.37
- No convention exists for what vowel to choose as the final vowel of a loan word, if it ends in a consonant in the source language, and that language's morphology does not suggest a suitable final vowel (unlike the case for Latin). Nick Nicholas proposes in the lessons that the final vowel simply be repeated; e.g. Mamluke - mamluk => prenrmamluku.
- Another (previous?) proposal was that the final vowel of the gismu used as prefix be used: pren-r-mamluk-u (in this case happily both conventions agree)
- Counterexample: zgike + rok -> zgikrnroko vs. zgikrnroke.
- I think you've added an extra hyphen to zgiknroko and zgiknroke. I've never heard of nrock music.
- The advantage the former proposal has is that it is also usable for Type 4 fu'ivla, whereas the latter is only usable for Type 3.
- I think you've added an extra hyphen to zgiknroko and zgiknroke. I've never heard of nrock music.
- Counterexample: zgike + rok -> zgikrnroko vs. zgikrnroke.
- rab.spir:
- 3-letter rafsi fu'ivla are valid type 3 only if the rafsi is of CVC form. At least that's what vlatai thinks.
- CLL indicates that the canonical form of fu'ivla morphologically is Type 3, with four-letter rafsi prefixes.
- Type 4 fu'ivla: Lojbanized word, with clusters to guarantee it will not fall apart morphologically. E.g. fasxo larto