https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&feed=atom&action=historydenpa bu - Revision history2024-03-29T11:32:37ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&diff=92305&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T15:40:04Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>What is '''.'''?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>What is '''.'''?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A pause in Lojban. Otherwise a period, or a little funny dot. [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>When are pauses mandatory|When are pauses mandatory]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A pause in Lojban. Otherwise a period, or a little funny dot. [[When are pauses mandatory|When are pauses mandatory]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>The Book|The Book]] says in Chapter 3, when a pause is required, the minimal pause is a glottal stop. You are, of course, allowed to pause longer if you wish.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As [[The Book|The Book]] says in Chapter 3, when a pause is required, the minimal pause is a glottal stop. You are, of course, allowed to pause longer if you wish.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Many other languages, including English, use glottal stops. If you are an English speaker, say the word "if" in isolation (or any other word that starts with a vowel). The tiny catch in your throat before the vowel is a glottal stop.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Many other languages, including English, use glottal stops. If you are an English speaker, say the word "if" in isolation (or any other word that starts with a vowel). The tiny catch in your throat before the vowel is a glottal stop.</div></td></tr>
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&diff=88933&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: denpa bu to denpa bu without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: d" to "d"2014-03-23T12:36:32Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_denpa_bu&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: denpa bu (page does not exist)">jbocre: denpa bu</a> to <a href="/papri/denpa_bu" title="denpa bu">denpa bu</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: d" to "d"</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&diff=88524&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: n" to "n"2014-03-23T12:16:45Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: n" to "n"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:16, 23 March 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>And another: doesn't a little '''.''' magically/[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>nature atur|nature atur]]ally appear, for instance, when you cut into or out of a recording while a vowel is being played?</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>And another: doesn't a little '''.''' magically/[[nature atur|nature atur]]ally appear, for instance, when you cut into or out of a recording while a vowel is being played?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Yes.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Yes.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&diff=74718&oldid=prevGleki at 16:46, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:46:57Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:46, 4 November 2013</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Capital letters, instead of indicating nonstandard stress, should represent their lerfu</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"A" = "abu", "B" = "by.", etc. --xod</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">What is '''</ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* I like this idea. Nonstandard stress could always fall back on accented vowels. Acronyms </del>in Lojban <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">are currently very difficult to read, and in fact some people already use capital letters as lerfu to counter this</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(In </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">recent thread I saw {JJM} used to refer to {jorne jecta co merko}.) Additionally</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">this gives </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pronunciation to [[jbocre: selma'o|selma'o]] names. NIhO = {ny.ibu.y'y.obu}</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">And of course it opens up fascinating new avenues for </del>[[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">abuse of the orthography</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">abuse of the orthography]]. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A pause </ins>in Lojban. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Otherwise </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">period</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">little funny dot</ins>. [[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">When are pauses mandatory</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">When are pauses mandatory</ins>]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I hope we come up with a better solution to the selma'o naming controversy than that! Whatever the name of NIhO in Lojban, I hope it involves the string ''ni'o'' and not ''NIhO''. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion</del>]]</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Inevitable vote against this. -- </del>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">User</del>:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Nick Nicholas</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nitcion</del>]]<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. :-) (Oh</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and ''that'''s what JJM meant</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This phobia of using plain ''merko''</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I still cannot fathom...)</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">As </ins>[[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre</ins>: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The Book</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The Book</ins>]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">says in Chapter 3, when a pause is required</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the minimal pause is a glottal stop</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">You are</ins>, of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">course</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">allowed </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pause longer if you wish</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** The phobia might come from the issue </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the Americas (North, Central</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">South) calling themselves that. Hence why I suggested ''steito''. Or it might come from the strange desire some people have to use acronyms with no referents and watch people try </del>to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">guess the meaning</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-- [[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** One of these days</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I'll make a Lojban aphorism of "the purpose of Lojban is to be clear</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not cute</del>." (<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''jmibirti jenai zdile tutci se krinu la lojban.''</del>) <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Meanwhile, people, merko = U.S. merko != America. bemro joi ketco = America</del>. The <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">etymology of gismu </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">utterly irrelevant. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Many other languages</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">including English</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">use glottal stops</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">If you are an English speaker, say the word </ins>"<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">if" in isolation </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or any other word that starts with a vowel</ins>). The <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tiny catch in your throat before the vowel </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a glottal stop</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I wrote JJM because the guy I was quoting wrote USA. If he had said America I'd have said merko</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-[[jbocre: cmeclax|cmeclax]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* I don't totally like this, but on the other hand it isn't all that horrible. After all, the use as nonstandard stress and the use as lerfu don't conflict. Nonstandard stress would almost always have mixed case in a word (stressing a whole cmavo would only be necessary in poetry, where I would not think one would use the lerfu convention, for precision's sake), and lerfu</del>- <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">capitals would be all</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">caps. </del>--<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mi'e mark.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* I don't see why this would be a problem if you're not looking for it to be parsed. Also, why just capital letters? A string of lowercase consonants is probably an acronym. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** The island off Dalmatia </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">called </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la krk</del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">; a string of lowercase consonants </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not always an acronym. Mind you, if it</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s not a cmene</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">it might be safe to interpret it as an acronym; </del>but <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I think this is more unsettling than the orthographic tricks I</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ve been allowing myself (optional punctuation, numerals for numbers</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Next question: why </ins>is ''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'.'</ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">? ''Why that symbol? It </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">often written as </ins>', but ' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">was taken</ins>.'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* I</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ve always found capitals as stress to be ugly. On the Wiki, bold works. In e-mail, this could be done with a ^ or other character which has no relevance to Lojban otherwise, preceding the accented vowel. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Try using ''h'' where an acute accent mark is impossible. It looks better than ^. </del>-- <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*** But ''h'' is already used as a capital ''y'y''! We should probably try not to break two conventions in doing this, even if one is really obscure. I suppose using ''q'' or ''w'' would return to ugliness. </del>--<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I prefer a ` mark or a ^ mark and never an "h", to indicate nonstandard stress</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{nu,`iork} or {nu,^iork}, but not {nu,IORK} or {nu,hiork}. --xod</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">And another</ins>: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">doesn</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t a little </ins>'''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins>''' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">magically/</ins>[[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nature atur</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nature atur</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ally appear, for instance, when you cut into or out of a recording while a vowel is being played?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I feel we should have an acute accent for stress, grave for explicit unrounding and umlaut for explicit rounding. The grave and umlaut then are optional but help in writing to show the difference between, say, T�rkiye and *Tirkiye - one has an optionally-umlauted i in the lojbanization, while one has an optional grave accent - but both are correct if spelled </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tirki,ie</del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, insofar as I can call any type 4 [[jbocre: poo</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ivla|poo</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ivla]] "correct." - mi</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e. </del>[[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.kreig.daniyl.</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.kreig.daniyl.</del>]]</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* No, capital letters, at least for A-F, should be reserved for abbreviating hexadecimal digits</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[jbocre: tinkit|tinkit]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Yes</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I suggested arbitrary symbols for that, in the very infrequent case when you need to talk about a lot of hex digits. This would be a terrible waste of the capital letters. At worst, say things like 83vei2gai. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** A</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">F have their own pronunciations in words. At least A and E, as stressed vowels. If we make them into digits, </del>that <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">could be confusing. I guess I never much liked the A-F convention for hex digits </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the first place, Lojban aside. Ideally, they should have their own symbols. Maybe the shifted versions of 0-5 (as a mnemonic for the decimalized) on a standard keyboard</del>? <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(there goes [[jbocre: cultural neutrality|cultural neutrality]]!) That gives: )!@#$% Woo.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-So how does one deal with </ins>that in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lojban</ins>?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** ga'i.ienai le namcu cmavo pe loi mupli be li 16 na morji srana lei lerfu .i le glico tcaci na cinri la lojban. .i mi fapro le re se stidi .i ku'i le pamoi se stidu cu lojbo jinzi se mukti .i le namcu se stidi cu lacri lo mulno bartu be la lojban. .i le jinzi cu jinga -- mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*</del>It <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">turns out this was also allowed in Loglan: ''Loglan 1'' (1989), p</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">180:</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Um, no problem. </ins>It <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">just works</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </ins>Remember, '''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.'</ins>'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">doesn</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t mean "glottal stop</ins>,<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">" it means "pause</ins>,<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">" </ins>and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">glottal stop is an allophone of pause. When you cut into or out of a recording</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">there is </ins>'''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">silence</ins>''' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">from </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">recording before </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">incut or after </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">outcut--that</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s what cutting </ins>in<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">/out means. Therefore</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">there is quite </ins>'''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">correctly</ins>''' a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pause</ins>/<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">glottal-stop</ins>/<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban-dot </ins>in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that place</ins>, and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">if we were transcribing </ins>the sounds<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">period </ins>would <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">be completely appropriate to write there</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> Note </ins>also<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, that the period </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">never mandatory to write (though the pause may be mandatory </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">say)</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">so long </ins>as you <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">have at least spaces </ins>in the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">right places</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">;:</del>Remember <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that each of the 100 three- and sx-letter words so generated may be represented in text in two ways: first</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">as a phonemically spelled word -- </del>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Tai</del>''', <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">for example</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">which translates the phrase 'capital tee' in English -- </del>and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">second</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">by its single-letter abbreviation, in this case the letteral </del>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">T</del>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. Both representations are pronounced as </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">word itself is spelled, in </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">case of '''T''' and '''Tai''' as [[jbocre: tigh|tigh]]. Thus </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">two differently written sentences: (1) </del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Tai ditca''' "Tee is a teacher" (unusual </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">English text</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but understandable) / taiDITca/ (2) </del>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">T ditca</del>''' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"T is </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">teacher" </del>/<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">taiDITca</del>/ <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">are read aloud as the same utterance. This is exactly what we do when reading numerals aloud </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">English</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">of course. Thus 'He ate 3 doughnuts' </del>and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'He ate three doughnuts' evoke exactly </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">same </del>sounds<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Acronyms need </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">consonant on the end like all good little cmene, don't they? This </del>would <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">probably mean "la JJMs"</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">What </del>also <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">hasn't been mentioned </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that this system wouldn't work if we wanted </del>to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">sound out acronyms where applicable</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">like when pronouncing PETA </del>as <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"peeduh", not "pee ee tee ay". Whether or not </del>you <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">use this convention </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lojban doesn't change </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fact that it is inevitable. If lojban had an acronym like "la py.ebuty.abus", it could and would be shortened to "la petas". --- mi'e .okus</del>.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-64198:rev-74718 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=denpa_bu&diff=64198&oldid=prevGleki at 16:45, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:45:36Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
Capital letters, instead of indicating nonstandard stress, should represent their lerfu. "A" = "abu", "B" = "by.", etc. --xod<br />
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* I like this idea. Nonstandard stress could always fall back on accented vowels. Acronyms in Lojban are currently very difficult to read, and in fact some people already use capital letters as lerfu to counter this. (In a recent thread I saw {JJM} used to refer to {jorne jecta co merko}.) Additionally, this gives a pronunciation to [[jbocre: selma'o|selma'o]] names. NIhO = {ny.ibu.y'y.obu}. And of course it opens up fascinating new avenues for [[jbocre: abuse of the orthography|abuse of the orthography]]. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
** I hope we come up with a better solution to the selma'o naming controversy than that! Whatever the name of NIhO in Lojban, I hope it involves the string ''ni'o'' and not ''NIhO''. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]<br />
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* Inevitable vote against this. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]. :-) (Oh, and ''that'''s what JJM meant. This phobia of using plain ''merko'', I still cannot fathom...)<br />
** The phobia might come from the issue of the Americas (North, Central, South) calling themselves that. Hence why I suggested ''steito''. Or it might come from the strange desire some people have to use acronyms with no referents and watch people try to guess the meaning. -- [[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
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** One of these days, I'll make a Lojban aphorism of "the purpose of Lojban is to be clear, not cute." (''jmibirti jenai zdile tutci se krinu la lojban.'') Meanwhile, people, merko = U.S. merko != America. bemro joi ketco = America. The etymology of gismu is utterly irrelevant. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].<br />
** I wrote JJM because the guy I was quoting wrote USA. If he had said America I'd have said merko. -[[jbocre: cmeclax|cmeclax]]<br />
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* I don't totally like this, but on the other hand it isn't all that horrible. After all, the use as nonstandard stress and the use as lerfu don't conflict. Nonstandard stress would almost always have mixed case in a word (stressing a whole cmavo would only be necessary in poetry, where I would not think one would use the lerfu convention, for precision's sake), and lerfu- capitals would be all-caps. --mi'e mark.<br />
* I don't see why this would be a problem if you're not looking for it to be parsed. Also, why just capital letters? A string of lowercase consonants is probably an acronym. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]<br />
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** The island off Dalmatia is called ''la krk''; a string of lowercase consonants is not always an acronym. Mind you, if it's not a cmene, it might be safe to interpret it as an acronym; but I think this is more unsettling than the orthographic tricks I've been allowing myself (optional punctuation, numerals for numbers.) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].<br />
* I've always found capitals as stress to be ugly. On the Wiki, bold works. In e-mail, this could be done with a ^ or other character which has no relevance to Lojban otherwise, preceding the accented vowel. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
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** Try using ''h'' where an acute accent mark is impossible. It looks better than ^. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]<br />
*** But ''h'' is already used as a capital ''y'y''! We should probably try not to break two conventions in doing this, even if one is really obscure. I suppose using ''q'' or ''w'' would return to ugliness. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
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** I prefer a ` mark or a ^ mark and never an "h", to indicate nonstandard stress: {nu,`iork} or {nu,^iork}, but not {nu,IORK} or {nu,hiork}. --xod<br />
** I feel we should have an acute accent for stress, grave for explicit unrounding and umlaut for explicit rounding. The grave and umlaut then are optional but help in writing to show the difference between, say, T�rkiye and *Tirkiye - one has an optionally-umlauted i in the lojbanization, while one has an optional grave accent - but both are correct if spelled ''tirki,ie'', insofar as I can call any type 4 [[jbocre: poo'ivla|poo'ivla]] "correct." - mi'e. [[jbocre: .kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]<br />
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* No, capital letters, at least for A-F, should be reserved for abbreviating hexadecimal digits. --[[jbocre: tinkit|tinkit]]<br />
** I suggested arbitrary symbols for that, in the very infrequent case when you need to talk about a lot of hex digits. This would be a terrible waste of the capital letters. At worst, say things like 83vei2gai. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
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** A-F have their own pronunciations in words. At least A and E, as stressed vowels. If we make them into digits, that could be confusing. I guess I never much liked the A-F convention for hex digits in the first place, Lojban aside. Ideally, they should have their own symbols. Maybe the shifted versions of 0-5 (as a mnemonic for the decimalized) on a standard keyboard? (there goes [[jbocre: cultural neutrality|cultural neutrality]]!) That gives: )!@#$% Woo.<br />
** ga'i.ienai le namcu cmavo pe loi mupli be li 16 na morji srana lei lerfu .i le glico tcaci na cinri la lojban. .i mi fapro le re se stidi .i ku'i le pamoi se stidu cu lojbo jinzi se mukti .i le namcu se stidi cu lacri lo mulno bartu be la lojban. .i le jinzi cu jinga -- mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].<br />
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*It turns out this was also allowed in Loglan: ''Loglan 1'' (1989), p. 180:<br />
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;:Remember that each of the 100 three- and sx-letter words so generated may be represented in text in two ways: first, as a phonemically spelled word -- '''Tai''', for example, which translates the phrase 'capital tee' in English -- and second, by its single-letter abbreviation, in this case the letteral '''T'''. Both representations are pronounced as the word itself is spelled, in the case of '''T''' and '''Tai''' as [[jbocre: tigh|tigh]]. Thus the two differently written sentences: (1) '''Tai ditca''' "Tee is a teacher" (unusual in English text, but understandable) / taiDITca/ (2) '''T ditca''' "T is a teacher" /taiDITca/ are read aloud as the same utterance. This is exactly what we do when reading numerals aloud in English, of course. Thus 'He ate 3 doughnuts' and 'He ate three doughnuts' evoke exactly the same sounds.<br />
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* Acronyms need a consonant on the end like all good little cmene, don't they? This would probably mean "la JJMs". What also hasn't been mentioned is that this system wouldn't work if we wanted to sound out acronyms where applicable, like when pronouncing PETA as "peeduh", not "pee ee tee ay". Whether or not you use this convention in lojban doesn't change the fact that it is inevitable. If lojban had an acronym like "la py.ebuty.abus", it could and would be shortened to "la petas". --- mi'e .okus.</div>Gleki