Difference between revisions of "borrowing from Loglan"

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Mumble voice chat
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''[[jbocre: xo'a|xo'a]]'' then the Loglan word then ''hoa''. (This is unofficial; officially you still need ''zoily....ly.''.) ''Or just use any [[jbocre: loglo fu'ivla|loglo fu'ivla]] like you would any fu'ivla.''
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Some Lojbanists think certain [[jbocre: gismu|gismu]] are ugly, & prefer using the
 +
 
 +
Loglan word in poetry--though not for ordinary speech. There are two
 +
 
 +
main reasons for this: ''selsiclu dukse'' ('whistle-sound excess' e.g. sibilance);
 +
 
 +
& abhorrence of "X", sometimes called ''la kafkylerfu'' ('Cough-Letter'). Examples:
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''xrula'' 'flower' could be replaced by Loglan "flora" (or by ''spati cinrango''
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'flower sex-organ'); ''xamgu'' 'good' by Loglan "gudbi" (or by the more Lojbanic ''banzu'' 'suffice'); ''djica'' 'desire' by Loglan "danza" (or by circumlocutions
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such as ''menli xagji'' 'mind hunger' or ''ponsypei'' 'possess-think'). --On the other
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hand, a native Lojbanist might enjoy these sounds & use them as often as possible...
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'''xrula''' is one of the most beautiful words of the language, maybe even the most beautiful. (''mi jinvi ledu'u lu klakydirgo li'u go'i'')
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The cultural precedent for this [''I surmise -- mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]''] is the Esperanto practice of borrowing the equivalent of [[jbocre: the Upsidedown Gismu Syndrome|on-to'e words]] from Ido as 'poetical' words.
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''Still think it's silly -- mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]''
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Well, insofar as Lojban does not have a long literary tradition yet,
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there is simply no other way to create the effect of archaicism. On
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the other hand, what the ''lobykai'' [[jbocre: connotations of using Loglan|connotations of using Loglan]] words
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 +
might be, remains to be seen. It might not be at all like what it is
 +
 
 +
in a natural language...
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''Why would we want to be falsely archaic? Our poems will likely become archaic enough some day (.a'o'esai) - la [[jbocre: .kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]
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----
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Using Loglan words is sometimes called ''dzevla'' for short. (''[[jbocre: blanu|blanu]]'' was mentioned in the 1960 Scientific American article, meaning that it has survived the entire history of the Loglan project all the way into Lojban.)
 +
 
 +
Here's a complete list of the 56 Jboglan words:
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bisli (ice), blabi (white), blanu (blue), bongu (bone), bredi (ready),
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cartu (chart), centi (centi-), condi (deep), cteki (tax), cutci (shoe),
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decti (deci-), dekto (deka-), dertu (dirt), dotco (German), ferti (fertile),
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festi (waste), fraso (French), gigdo (giga-), jungo (Chinese), karda (card),
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kilto (kilo-), klesi (class), kolme (coal), komcu (comb), korka (cork),
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kosta (coat), kurfa (square), lakse (wax), lunra (lunar), manti (ant),
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megdo (mega-), merli (measure), merko (American), midju (middle),
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milti (milli-), nazbi (nose), mutce (much), nenri (inside), penbi (pen),
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pinca (urine), pinsi (pencil), ponjo (Japanese), prali (profit), ratcu (rat),
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renro (throw), rismi (rice), rusko (Russian), sakta (sugar), skapi (skin),
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spano (Spanish), sumji (sum), tarci (star), tcati (tea), torni (twist),
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tricu (tree), vamtu (vomit).
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Here are the 37 "false friends", i.e. gismu that mean one thing in Loglan but an altogether different thing in Lojban
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(gismu/Loglan meaning/Lojban meaning):
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barda/reward/big, berti/carry/north, broda/broken/predicate-1, cidja/awake/food,
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cinta/infant/paint, clika/similar/mossy, dakli/likely/sack, daski/Dane/pocket,
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djine/join/ring, drani/dry/correct, dugri/unit/logarithm, foldi/fold/field,
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gutra/strange/womb, kanla/canal/eye, catna/cotton/cut, krinu/nut/reason,
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lerci/letter/late, maksi/maximum/magnet, matci/machine/mat, molro/soft/mole,
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muslo/muscle/Muslim, palci/polish/evil, pandi/monetary-pound/punctuate, pilno/flat/use,
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sakli/sack/slide, satci/start/exact, sinma/cinema/esteem, skaci/Scot/skirt,
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skori/screw/cord, sorgu/ear/sorghum, spali/side/polish, speni/experience/married,
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stali/stand/stay, tcena/chain/stretch, trati/try/taut, tsani/sneeze/sky,
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vrici/river/various
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----
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''This is, like the use of Latin, a pastime for the educated. Us newbie chumps don't know any Loglan gismu!''
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 +
----
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To date, the only documented example of ''dzebau''  I've been able to find is [[User:James Cooke Brown here|JCB here]].
 +
 
 +
----
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 +
(It should be possible to write a text now that either says the same thing in
 +
 
 +
Loglan & Lojban, or one thing in Loglan & something else in Lojban. Alternately,
 +
 
 +
perhaps a text that contains all 56 Jboglan gismu, for mnemonic purposes.)

Revision as of 16:43, 4 November 2013

xo'a then the Loglan word then hoa. (This is unofficial; officially you still need zoily....ly..) Or just use any loglo fu'ivla like you would any fu'ivla.

Some Lojbanists think certain gismu are ugly, & prefer using the

Loglan word in poetry--though not for ordinary speech. There are two

main reasons for this: selsiclu dukse ('whistle-sound excess' e.g. sibilance);

& abhorrence of "X", sometimes called la kafkylerfu ('Cough-Letter'). Examples:

xrula 'flower' could be replaced by Loglan "flora" (or by spati cinrango

'flower sex-organ'); xamgu 'good' by Loglan "gudbi" (or by the more Lojbanic banzu 'suffice'); djica 'desire' by Loglan "danza" (or by circumlocutions

such as menli xagji 'mind hunger' or ponsypei 'possess-think'). --On the other

hand, a native Lojbanist might enjoy these sounds & use them as often as possible...

xrula is one of the most beautiful words of the language, maybe even the most beautiful. (mi jinvi ledu'u lu klakydirgo li'u go'i)

The cultural precedent for this [I surmise -- mi'e nitcion] is the Esperanto practice of borrowing the equivalent of on-to'e words from Ido as 'poetical' words.

Still think it's silly -- mi'e nitcion

Well, insofar as Lojban does not have a long literary tradition yet,

there is simply no other way to create the effect of archaicism. On

the other hand, what the lobykai connotations of using Loglan words

might be, remains to be seen. It might not be at all like what it is

in a natural language...

Why would we want to be falsely archaic? Our poems will likely become archaic enough some day (.a'o'esai) - la .kreig.daniyl.


Using Loglan words is sometimes called dzevla for short. (blanu was mentioned in the 1960 Scientific American article, meaning that it has survived the entire history of the Loglan project all the way into Lojban.)

Here's a complete list of the 56 Jboglan words:

bisli (ice), blabi (white), blanu (blue), bongu (bone), bredi (ready),

cartu (chart), centi (centi-), condi (deep), cteki (tax), cutci (shoe),

decti (deci-), dekto (deka-), dertu (dirt), dotco (German), ferti (fertile),

festi (waste), fraso (French), gigdo (giga-), jungo (Chinese), karda (card),

kilto (kilo-), klesi (class), kolme (coal), komcu (comb), korka (cork),

kosta (coat), kurfa (square), lakse (wax), lunra (lunar), manti (ant),

megdo (mega-), merli (measure), merko (American), midju (middle),

milti (milli-), nazbi (nose), mutce (much), nenri (inside), penbi (pen),

pinca (urine), pinsi (pencil), ponjo (Japanese), prali (profit), ratcu (rat),

renro (throw), rismi (rice), rusko (Russian), sakta (sugar), skapi (skin),

spano (Spanish), sumji (sum), tarci (star), tcati (tea), torni (twist),

tricu (tree), vamtu (vomit).

Here are the 37 "false friends", i.e. gismu that mean one thing in Loglan but an altogether different thing in Lojban

(gismu/Loglan meaning/Lojban meaning):

barda/reward/big, berti/carry/north, broda/broken/predicate-1, cidja/awake/food,

cinta/infant/paint, clika/similar/mossy, dakli/likely/sack, daski/Dane/pocket,

djine/join/ring, drani/dry/correct, dugri/unit/logarithm, foldi/fold/field,

gutra/strange/womb, kanla/canal/eye, catna/cotton/cut, krinu/nut/reason,

lerci/letter/late, maksi/maximum/magnet, matci/machine/mat, molro/soft/mole,

muslo/muscle/Muslim, palci/polish/evil, pandi/monetary-pound/punctuate, pilno/flat/use,

sakli/sack/slide, satci/start/exact, sinma/cinema/esteem, skaci/Scot/skirt,

skori/screw/cord, sorgu/ear/sorghum, spali/side/polish, speni/experience/married,

stali/stand/stay, tcena/chain/stretch, trati/try/taut, tsani/sneeze/sky,

vrici/river/various


This is, like the use of Latin, a pastime for the educated. Us newbie chumps don't know any Loglan gismu!


To date, the only documented example of dzebau I've been able to find is JCB here.


(It should be possible to write a text now that either says the same thing in

Loglan & Lojban, or one thing in Loglan & something else in Lojban. Alternately,

perhaps a text that contains all 56 Jboglan gismu, for mnemonic purposes.)