Difference between revisions of "bi'ai"

From Lojban
Jump to: navigation, search
 
(Discussion)
 
(7 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
[[Category:Category]]
+
{{cmavo|bi'ai|CAhA|must be: modal aspect: necessary attribute}}
 +
'''bi'ai''' is equivalent to '''na ka'e na''' (that is '''naku ka'eku naku''' for those who [[scope of tenses and NA|value the book's prescriptions above common sense]]). It's proposed for the sake of symmetry. (cf. bilga, [[CAhA as sumtcita|CAhA as sumtcita]])
 +
=Discussion=
 +
*.ianaicai .i ma smuni le si'o da na [[ka'enai|ka'enai]] broda
 +
*'''ka'enai''' does not mean the same as '''ka'e na''', it means '''na ka'e'''.
 +
*[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]:
 +
**'''ka'e na''' means that the negative is possible. '''na ka'e''' and '''ka'enai''', on the other hand, negate the possibility.
 +
***See [[scope of tenses and NA]].
 +
*What is the symmetry?
 +
**<code>bi'ai                      = na ka'e na = ka'e nai na = not capable of not</code>
 +
**<code>na bi'ai    = bi'ai nai    = ka'e na                  = capable of not</code>
 +
**<code>bi'ai na                  = na ka'e    = ka'e nai    = not capable of</code>
 +
**<code>na bi'ai na = bi'ai nai na = ka'e                    = capable of</code>
 +
***[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]:
 +
****Why only a cmavo for '''na ka'e na''' and not '''na ca'a na''' etc.?
 +
***[[Adam|Adam]]:
 +
****The symmetry is with other such constructs in the language. Just as it is much easier to say '''ro broda''' than '''naku su'o broda naku''', it is much easier to say '''bi'aiku''' than '''naku ka'eku naku'''. A cmavo is not proposed for '''na ca'a na''', because there does not seem to be any interesting difference between '''na ca'a''' and '''ca'a na'''. For the record, it was me who originally proposed this cmavo.

Latest revision as of 08:50, 17 October 2014

bi'ai [CAhA] particle: must be: modal aspect: necessary attribute

bi'ai is equivalent to na ka'e na (that is naku ka'eku naku for those who value the book's prescriptions above common sense). It's proposed for the sake of symmetry. (cf. bilga, CAhA as sumtcita)

Discussion

  • .ianaicai .i ma smuni le si'o da na ka'enai broda
  • ka'enai does not mean the same as ka'e na, it means na ka'e.
  • xorxes:
    • ka'e na means that the negative is possible. na ka'e and ka'enai, on the other hand, negate the possibility.
  • What is the symmetry?
    • bi'ai = na ka'e na = ka'e nai na = not capable of not
    • na bi'ai = bi'ai nai = ka'e na = capable of not
    • bi'ai na = na ka'e = ka'e nai = not capable of
    • na bi'ai na = bi'ai nai na = ka'e = capable of
      • And Rosta:
        • Why only a cmavo for na ka'e na and not na ca'a na etc.?
      • Adam:
        • The symmetry is with other such constructs in the language. Just as it is much easier to say ro broda than naku su'o broda naku, it is much easier to say bi'aiku than naku ka'eku naku. A cmavo is not proposed for na ca'a na, because there does not seem to be any interesting difference between na ca'a and ca'a na. For the record, it was me who originally proposed this cmavo.