Difference between revisions of "audio-visual isomorphism"

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{{se inspekte/en}}''Audio-visual isomorphism'' is the notion that spoken and written Lojban should be the same (have a one-to-one mapping).
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== Usage ==
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*[[jezrax|jezrax]]:
This template creates an ordered list, which is similar to a [[WP:L#Numbered lists|numbered list]] but may display other characters, such as roman numbers or alphabet letters, instead of the decimal enumerator.
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*:"Isomorphism" is a strong word. It requires not only that no information be lost in converting from writing to speech or the other way, but also that no information be gained. The two must be structurally identical, and therefore functionally identical (from a mathematical point of view) as well.
  
== Syntax ==
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==Breakdowns of audiovisual isomorphism==
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It's not strictly true that in Lojban spoken and written utterances are structurally identical. Minor, avoidable breakdowns of audiovisual isomorphism are possible. "Minor" means they're unlikely to confuse humans, though they may confuse stupid computer programs. "Avoidable" means you can speak and write so that the breakdowns do not occur.
:{{tld|Ordered list |list-style-type{{=}}''list style type'' |''entry1'' |''entry2'' ... |''entry50''|allowlinebreak=yes}}
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* [[The Book|The reference grammar]] (chapter 19 section 10) mentions that '''zoi''' quotation is an example of breakdown. A guard word that can safely delimit text may not be safe in speech, and vice versa.
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**[[User:mudri|mudri]]:
:{{tld|Ordered list |list-style-type{{=}}''list style type'' |''entry1'' |''entry2'' ... |''entry50'' |li_style{{=}}''CSS-all''|allowlinebreak=yes}}
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**:Also, there's no telling how to spell/pronounce the contents of a '''zoi''' quotation.
;With separate CSS styles for each item
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* Some people may write both '''to''' and '''vei''' as ''('', leading to ambiguity in whether the parenthesis is the start of a parenthetical comment or a mathematical expression. The same obviously goes for the right parenthesis. (But writing this way is not common practice).
:{{tld|Ordered list |list-style-type{{=}}''list style type'' |''entry1'' |''entry2'' ... |''entry50'' |li_style1{{=}}''CSS1'' |li_style2{{=}}''CSS2'' ... |li_style50{{=}}''CSS50''|allowlinebreak=yes}}
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** this is avoidable ... by using '''to''' and '''vei'''. Obviously things can start to breakdown if you don't follow the rules. It doesn't really seem worth mentioning, certainly not as evidence that there are breakdowns in Lojban's audiovisual isomorphism.
 
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*Since not all pauses are written, even when mandatory spoken, that is a breakdown.
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**[[jezrax|jezrax]]:
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**:The pause does not have to be written '''.''' to be represented in the text. When I write '''mi'e [[jezrax|jezrax]]''' instead of '''mi'e .[[jezrax|jezrax]].''', it's unambiguous from the word spacing that '''jezrax''' is a '''[[cmene]]''' (''name'') not preceded by '''la''' or '''doi''' and must be surrounded with pauses. So no information is lost in writing.
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* [[Lojban]] text does not mark for stress. An unambiguous orthography (which is what we have, stress-wise) is not the same as an isomorphic one.
! Paramter !! Description
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**[[jezrax|jezrax]]:
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**:It is not a breakdown. Similarly to pauses, the information represented by stress in speech is usually represented as word breaks in writing. I don't see any information gained or lost either way, though it's true the system is complicated and it's hard to be completely sure. See [[WordResolutionAlgorithm|Word Resolution Algorithm]].
| {{nowrap|list style type}}
 
| This parameter indicates the list style type. Popular acceptable parameters include:
 
<code>
 
* decimal (1, 2, 3, 4, ...)
 
* lower-roman (i, ii, iii, iv, ...)
 
* upper-roman (I, II, III, IV, ...)
 
* lower-alpha (a, b, c, d, ...)
 
* upper-alpha (A, B, C, D, ...)
 
</code>
 
For a full list, see the following section.
 
|-
 
| {{nowrap|entry1 ... entry50}}
 
| These unnamed parameters are individual list items that appear as separate lines. They can be words or full sentences. However, all instance of equal sign (=) must be replaced with "<nowiki>{{=}}</nowiki>"; otherwise, the affected line will not appear.
 
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| {{nowrap|CSS1 ... CSS50}}
 
| Standard [[Cascading Style Sheet]] (CSS) styles that change the look of each line. (User must know CSS syntax.)
 
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| CSS-all
 
| Standard CSS styles that change the look of all entries. (User must know CSS syntax.) When present, ''CSS1'' through ''CSS5'' are disregarded.
 
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===Acceptable list style type values and supported web browsers ===
 
{{CSS list-style-type values}}
 
 
 
== See also ==
 
*{{tl|Unbulleted list}}
 
 
 
== References ==
 
{{Reflist}}
 
 
 
<includeonly>
 
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[[Category:Wikipedia list formatting templates]]
 
</includeonly>
 

Latest revision as of 10:53, 2 January 2017

Audio-visual isomorphism is the notion that spoken and written Lojban should be the same (have a one-to-one mapping).

  • jezrax:
    "Isomorphism" is a strong word. It requires not only that no information be lost in converting from writing to speech or the other way, but also that no information be gained. The two must be structurally identical, and therefore functionally identical (from a mathematical point of view) as well.

Breakdowns of audiovisual isomorphism

It's not strictly true that in Lojban spoken and written utterances are structurally identical. Minor, avoidable breakdowns of audiovisual isomorphism are possible. "Minor" means they're unlikely to confuse humans, though they may confuse stupid computer programs. "Avoidable" means you can speak and write so that the breakdowns do not occur.

  • The reference grammar (chapter 19 section 10) mentions that zoi quotation is an example of breakdown. A guard word that can safely delimit text may not be safe in speech, and vice versa.
    • mudri:
      Also, there's no telling how to spell/pronounce the contents of a zoi quotation.
  • Some people may write both to and vei as (, leading to ambiguity in whether the parenthesis is the start of a parenthetical comment or a mathematical expression. The same obviously goes for the right parenthesis. (But writing this way is not common practice).
    • this is avoidable ... by using to and vei. Obviously things can start to breakdown if you don't follow the rules. It doesn't really seem worth mentioning, certainly not as evidence that there are breakdowns in Lojban's audiovisual isomorphism.
  • Since not all pauses are written, even when mandatory spoken, that is a breakdown.
    • jezrax:
      The pause does not have to be written . to be represented in the text. When I write mi'e jezrax instead of mi'e .jezrax., it's unambiguous from the word spacing that jezrax is a cmene (name) not preceded by la or doi and must be surrounded with pauses. So no information is lost in writing.
  • Lojban text does not mark for stress. An unambiguous orthography (which is what we have, stress-wise) is not the same as an isomorphic one.
    • jezrax:
      It is not a breakdown. Similarly to pauses, the information represented by stress in speech is usually represented as word breaks in writing. I don't see any information gained or lost either way, though it's true the system is complicated and it's hard to be completely sure. See Word Resolution Algorithm.