User:James Cooke Brown: Difference between revisions

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From the Lojban web site FAQ (http://www.lojban.org/files/brochures/faq.htm):
The founder of the [[jbocre: Loglan|Loglan]] project, from which Lojban is an offshoot.


'''fu'ivla''': borrowed word ''(literally, "copy word")''
Unfortunately, he didn't approve of Lojban, but we are allowed (so says the court) to call Lojban "Loglan" anyhow.


Formerly called ''le'avla'', a more literal [[jbocre: calque|calque]] of 'loan word'.
He died in 2000.  Here is his [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1988 bituary]; following this message is a lot of stuff about Lojban/Loglan reunification.


The shift from ''le'avla'' to ''fu'ivla'' may have come from Colin Fine; see [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/msg00075.html], where he announces that he wants to start using ''fu'ivla'' instead of ''le'avla''. (At that time, there appears to have been a little discussion as to whether ''fu'ivla'' was a better word for the concept; see the couple of messages starting at [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9305/threads.html#00076].) ''--pne''
[[Alex Leith|Alex Leith]] succeeded him as the head of [[The Loglan Institute|The Loglan Institute]].


There are four ways to borrow a word into Lojban, with increasing degree of integration:
Synonyms: JCB, Dr. James Cooke Brown.


;[[jbocre: Type 1 fu'ivla]]: ''me la'o gy.'' + word in original spelling + ''gy.''; e.g. ''me la'o gy. Phascolarctos gy.'' *How is it ''gy.''? It's not an English word, shouldn't it be ly. for Linnean, since that's the kind of name it is?''Officially, the choice of word is quite arbitrary. People get used to gy, and forget it's gy for glico.'' Is that explained in any of the current learning materials?
== JCB ==


;[[jbocre: Type 2 fu'ivla]]: ''me la'' + Lojbanised [[jbocre: cmene|cmene]]; e.g. ''me la faskolerktos.''''OK for noun-like brivla, but less fitting for verb-like brivla, which might have other places.  Granted, noun-like ones are much more common.  Still, even something like '''cmacrnintegrali''' ("integral" in the calculus sense) is likely to have a place structure like "x1 is the integral of x2 with respect to variable x3" or some such.  How these other places are to be intuited for Type 3&4 fu'ivla I don't know, but since '''me''' only has one place (does it?) it wouldn't work for these Types 1&2. --mi'e mark -- Oops.  And already said this below.''
coi doi loglo je lojbo


;[[jbocre: Type 3 fu'ivla]]: [[jbocre: gismu|gismu]] + buffer consonant(s) + Lojbanised word; e.g. ''mabrnfaskolarkto''
xo'a Ga gutra ga lepo la Jimbraon morcea vi lemi gunti.


;[[jbocre: Type 4 fu'ivla]]: Lojbanised word, with clusters to guarantee it will not fall apart morphologically; e.g. ''fasxo larto''
I mi Jai na noba vizka jmite. Ibuo miu lerbatmi la Loglan


[[jbocre: The Book|The Book]] indicates that the canonical form of fu'ivla morphologically is Type 3, with four-letter [[jbocre: rafsi|rafsi]] prefixes.
cao veu la Loglan. I mi mutce clika le to lengu jio Jai farfu lei.


* Four-letter prefixes are recommended only because if you use a three-letter prefix and don't check for a consonant cluster, you might end up making a non-fu'ivla. With tools like [[jbocre: vlatai|vlatai]] at our disposal, we shouldn't be afraid of 3-letter rafsi prefixes, which can sometimes give nicer, less "crunchy" words (''djarspageti'', for example, is much nicer than ''cidjrspageti''). --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]
Ihoa su'oroiku la jycybyb skicu la lojban fo le jy flapro tixnu
* Generic ideological objections: (1) the 4-letter version is completely predictable, the 3-letter isn't; (2) I won't be running vlatai in face-to-face interaction; (3) of course fu'ivla should be crunchy -- how else will I realise immediately they aren't lujvo? -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].


* 3-letter rafsi fu'ivla are valid type 3 only if the rafsi is of CVC form.  At least that's what vlatai thinks. --phma
i jy se pluka le nu le re bangu cu banro i ku'i li'a jy zmanei
** My copy of vlatai parses ''djarspageti'' just fine. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]


** Do make sure you're using the absolutely latest vlatai. It was a target of many bug fixes in 0.37
le flalu panzi i jy banli je prije prenu


No convention exists for what vowel to choose as the final vowel of a loan word, if it ends in a consonant in the source language, and that language's morphology does not suggest a suitable final vowel (unlike the case for [[Borrowing words from Graeco-L|Latin]].) [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] proposes in the [http://ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less12fuhivla.html essons] that the final vowel simply be repeated; e.g. Mamluke - ''mamluk'' - ''prenrmamluk'''u''''' .
co'o mi'e xorxes


''Another (previous?) proposal was that the final vowel of the gismu used as prefix be used:'' pren-r-mamluk-u ''(in this case happily both conventions agree)''
xo'a Hue Xorxes


Counterexample: zgik'''e''' + r'''o'''k -> zgikrnrok'''o''' vs. zgikrnrok'''e''' .
----
 
mi te cpedu le nu fanva le pamoi xadba le lojbo i mi fanva fu lu
 
cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde
 
i mi jy noroi selvi'a rinsa iku'i mi'a xa'arcajysi'u la loglan


* I think you've added an extra hyphen to ''zgiknroko'' and ''zgiknroke''. I've never heard of nrock music.
bau la loglan i mi mutce nelci le re bangu poi jy patfu ke'a


The advantage the former proposal has is that it is also usable for Type 4 fu'ivla, whereas the latter is only usable for Type 3.
li'u
 
xa'arcajysi'u: x1 simxu le ka ce'uxipa ce'uxire canja lo'e xatra be ce'uxipa bei
 
ce'uxire bei x2 lo'e catra be ce'uxire bei ce'uxipa bei x2


----
----


Another variant on Method 1 is ''(me) la'e zoi gy. Phascolarctos gy.''
la jycybyb.
 
mi cabdei ciksne .i lebi'u toldi
 
la jbotut. ca'a cnino leka zvati
 
.i fagri tutra noryru'i ka'u
 
.i vofli file tsani co skari befo
 
noda poi na'e vizyzva .i banzu


Methods 1 & 2 are also less integrated syntactically since (I (=And) think) ''me'' has only an x1. Hence they won't work for fuhivla that need to be polyadic. ''The [[jbocre: ma'oste|ma'oste]] I have says ''"convert sumti to selbri/tanru element; x1 is specific to [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]] in aspect x2"'', which looks like two places to me. On the other hand, that's still not a lot. --pne''
mi'e maikl.

Revision as of 16:53, 4 November 2013

The founder of the Loglan project, from which Lojban is an offshoot.

Unfortunately, he didn't approve of Lojban, but we are allowed (so says the court) to call Lojban "Loglan" anyhow.

He died in 2000. Here is his bituary; following this message is a lot of stuff about Lojban/Loglan reunification.

Alex Leith succeeded him as the head of The Loglan Institute.

Synonyms: JCB, Dr. James Cooke Brown.

JCB

coi doi loglo je lojbo

xo'a Ga gutra ga lepo la Jimbraon morcea vi lemi gunti.

I mi Jai na noba vizka jmite. Ibuo miu lerbatmi la Loglan

cao veu la Loglan. I mi mutce clika le to lengu jio Jai farfu lei.

Ihoa su'oroiku la jycybyb skicu la lojban fo le jy flapro tixnu

i jy se pluka le nu le re bangu cu banro i ku'i li'a jy zmanei

le flalu panzi i jy banli je prije prenu

co'o mi'e xorxes

xo'a Hue Xorxes


mi te cpedu le nu fanva le pamoi xadba le lojbo i mi fanva fu lu

cizra fa le nu la jimbraun mrobi'o bu'u le mi gugde

i mi jy noroi selvi'a rinsa iku'i mi'a xa'arcajysi'u la loglan

bau la loglan i mi mutce nelci le re bangu poi jy patfu ke'a

li'u

xa'arcajysi'u: x1 simxu le ka ce'uxipa ce'uxire canja lo'e xatra be ce'uxipa bei

ce'uxire bei x2 lo'e catra be ce'uxire bei ce'uxipa bei x2


la jycybyb.

mi cabdei ciksne .i lebi'u toldi

la jbotut. ca'a cnino leka zvati

.i fagri tutra noryru'i ka'u

.i vofli file tsani co skari befo

noda poi na'e vizyzva .i banzu

mi'e maikl.