User:Colin Fine: Difference between revisions

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==  Proposed Definitions And Examples ==
I have been involved in Loglan/Lojban since about 1978, on and off. I was part of a group attempting to speak it in Oxford in the late 70's, and one in Cambridge in the early 80's.


===  Proposed Definition of ''.y'' ===
The period when Lojban separated from Loglan happened to be one of the times when I wasn't involved for a couple of years, so I missed out; but when I came back and found Lojban, I was annoyed at all the words I had to relearn (and a few old Loglan words still sometimes come unbidden when I'm looking for a Lojgan one), but delighted with some of the redesigns of the grammar, particularly the unification of space/time/manner/cause phrases, the unpicking of the veridical/non-veridical and mass/individual distinctions, and the imperative pronoun ko.


;'''.y''' (Y): Hesitation indicator.  The psuedo-word ".y" is a hesitation noise.  It maintains the floor while speaker decides what to say next.  It is ignored for absolutely all grammatical purposes, except that before all other processing all pairs of Y+BU (i.e. ".y bu") are bound together and treated as a single word of selma'o BY (referring to the letter "y").  In particular, ".y" is skipped over by words that have special effects on nearby words (except for the special ".y bu" case above.  This includes, but is not limited to, members of the following selma'o: SI, SA, SU, ZO, ZOI, and ZEI.  To talk about the word ".y" (since "zo" cannot be used to quote it), use "zoi" to quote it or say "lo depsna valsi", meaning "the hesitation sound word".
Since I moved to Bradford, in Yorkshire, I had a brief period speaking Lojban with Andrew Smith, but have done very little for several years.


** Keywords: hesitation, uh
I believe that I am responsible for complicating the grammar of Lojban to introduce preposed relative clauses and phrases (le poi mi te vecnu ku'o cukta). So sue me. ''Thank you.''
 
===  Examples of ''.y'' Usage ===
 
mi nelci lo pixra be lo .y. pavyseljirna
 
''I like pictures of, umm, unicorns.''
 
zo .y. pavyseljirna cu clani valsi
 
''The word, umm, "unicorn" is a long word.''
 
zo pavyseljirna cu vasru me'o .y. bu
 
''The word "unicorn" contains the letter "y".''
 
==  Impact ==
 
* Currently, SI deletes the previous ".y", and ".y" can be used as a ZOI delimiter or a word in a ZEI clause.  These are almost universally considered to be bad things, and this proposal eradicates them.
* This proposal also says that ZO skips over Y, and hence cannot be used to quote it.  This is rather more controversial, but simplifies word interactions substantially.  Also, it is rather ridiculous to believe that "zo .y. pavyseljirna" insists that the word ".y" is a unicorn.  Hesitation should be allowed absolutely everywhere that it can be.

Revision as of 16:45, 4 November 2013

I have been involved in Loglan/Lojban since about 1978, on and off. I was part of a group attempting to speak it in Oxford in the late 70's, and one in Cambridge in the early 80's.

The period when Lojban separated from Loglan happened to be one of the times when I wasn't involved for a couple of years, so I missed out; but when I came back and found Lojban, I was annoyed at all the words I had to relearn (and a few old Loglan words still sometimes come unbidden when I'm looking for a Lojgan one), but delighted with some of the redesigns of the grammar, particularly the unification of space/time/manner/cause phrases, the unpicking of the veridical/non-veridical and mass/individual distinctions, and the imperative pronoun ko.

Since I moved to Bradford, in Yorkshire, I had a brief period speaking Lojban with Andrew Smith, but have done very little for several years.

I believe that I am responsible for complicating the grammar of Lojban to introduce preposed relative clauses and phrases (le poi mi te vecnu ku'o cukta). So sue me. Thank you.