https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&feed=atom&action=historyUser:.kreig.daniyl. - Revision history2024-03-28T11:33:27ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=115650&oldid=prevGleki: Text replacement - "pne" to "la .filip."2015-06-27T17:25:01Z<p>Text replacement - "<a href="/papri/pne" class="mw-redirect" title="pne">pne</a>" to "<a href="/papri/User:Filip" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Filip">la .filip.</a>"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pne</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">pne</del>]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">User:filip</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la .filip.</ins>]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=92737&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: " to ""2014-03-23T16:20:19Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: " to ""</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Try using'' pi'e '' instead of ''pi ''for expressing computer adresses.'' pi ''is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers.'' But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Try using'' pi'e '' instead of ''pi ''for expressing computer adresses.'' pi ''is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers.'' But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>4-tuple]] of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes ''pi'e'' correct. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a [[4-tuple]] of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes ''pi'e'' correct. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e [[User:Jay Kominek|.jez.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e [[User:Jay Kominek|.jez.]]''</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=91702&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:58:13Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:58, 23 March 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Try using'' pi'e '' instead of ''pi ''for expressing computer adresses.'' pi ''is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers.'' But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Try using'' pi'e '' instead of ''pi ''for expressing computer adresses.'' pi ''is for expressing numbers, but computer addresses are not numbers.'' But pi'e is for expressing dates or times, while pi is a period while discussing numbers. 209.42.200.90 is a string of numerals. I am now using 'pibu,' which is the same as the period symbol here. Does that appease you?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a [[jbocre: 4-tuple]] of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes ''pi'e'' correct. --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>...IP addresses are numbers. In fact, 209.42.200.98 corresponds to 3509241954. They're simply represented in base-256 as a [[jbocre: 4-tuple]] of base-10 numbers. (Which is significantly easier to remember!) That, actually, makes ''pi'e'' correct. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e [[User:Jay Kominek|.jez.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''mu'onai le skami judri befi la .ibupyp. goi ko'e cu nacmu .i ra'unai, ko'a dunli li cimunosorevopasomuvo .i ko'e cu cusku ju'u li remuxa ci'e le vonpoi be namcu ci'e li dau .ije lenu go'i cu frili morji .i bai lenu go'a zo pi'e cu drani .i mi'e [[User:Jay Kominek|.jez.]]''</div></td></tr>
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=91590&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:57:10Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:57, 23 March 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''.e'u pilno zo ''pi'e'' seba'i zo ''pi'' lenu cusku le skami judri .i zo pi ve cusku lo saclu namcu .iku'i lo skami judri na namcu'' .iku'i zo pi'e ve cusku le djedi .e le temci .i zo pi ve cusku le denpabu secu'u le namcu .i ko'a cu namcu .i mi ca pilno zoily. pibu ly. noi mintu le denpabu vi .i xu ti do se gleki</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''.e'u pilno zo ''pi'e'' seba'i zo ''pi'' lenu cusku le skami judri .i zo pi ve cusku lo saclu namcu .iku'i lo skami judri na namcu'' .iku'i zo pi'e ve cusku le djedi .e le temci .i zo pi ve cusku le denpabu secu'u le namcu .i ko'a cu namcu .i mi ca pilno zoily. pibu ly. noi mintu le denpabu vi .i xu ti do se gleki</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that ".e'u pilno zo..." read ".e'u '''ko''' pilno zo..." instead? Based on [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Rant: e'o and e'u are not commands]] --pne''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that ".e'u pilno zo..." read ".e'u '''ko''' pilno zo..." instead? Based on [[Rant: e'o and e'u are not commands]] --pne''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>If you interpret it as a suggestion, then no. If it is a command, then yes. I do not know how the original poster intended it, but the lojban is theirs and the english below is mine.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>If you interpret it as a suggestion, then no. If it is a command, then yes. I do not know how the original poster intended it, but the lojban is theirs and the english below is mine.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=89910&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:45:08Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[pne|pne]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[pne|pne]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l96">Line 96:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 96:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No translations. Lojban poetry doesn't translate well; attitudinal poems certainly do not.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No translations. Lojban poetry doesn't translate well; attitudinal poems certainly do not.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i noda xe fanva .i le lojbo pemci na xamgu se fanva .i le selcinmo pemci go'i [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>xi'i3 i'i]] pa</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i noda xe fanva .i le lojbo pemci na xamgu se fanva .i le selcinmo pemci go'i [[xi'i3 i'i]] pa</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* ''xi'i pa'' is ''ju'o''.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* ''xi'i pa'' is ''ju'o''.</div></td></tr>
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=88525&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"2014-03-23T12:16:45Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:16, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l38">Line 38:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 38:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''.i bai mi puzi binxo zo pi'e''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''.i bai mi puzi binxo zo pi'e''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Despite the similar translation of ''Daniel'', I am unrelated to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Despite the similar translation of ''Daniel'', I am unrelated to [[lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''ri'anai le mintu lerfykaibapli pe zoigy. Daniel gy. ku mi na ckini la [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''ri'anai le mintu lerfykaibapli pe zoigy. Daniel gy. ku mi na ckini la [[lidaniyl.|lidaniyl.]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=88002&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: p" to "p"2014-03-23T12:12:04Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: p" to "p"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<col class="diff-content" />
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:12, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l4">Line 4:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 4:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''mi sidju fi le mi papri pe'a bau la lojban. .e le glico .ija'e ganai mi fanva le do se cusku fu da poi do na pensi xamgu xe fanva gi .e'a bai do binxo .i le valsi cu du le do valsi'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbocre: jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>pne|pne]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>;:''Shouldn't that be "le valsi cu du le do valsi"? The way it is, [[jbocre: jbofi'e|jbofi'e]] groups it as "(le (valsi du] (le do valsi)", while with the cu, I get "(le valsi) cu �du� (le do valsi)", which makes more sense to me. (And it can't parse the second sentence ".ija'e ... do binxo"; it did after deleting "ganai" and "gi" and "binxo", though, if that helps you find the problem.) --[[pne|pne]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't use jbofi'e very often, but I had meant it as ''Therefore, if... then (.e'a) caused-by-you it becomes (something)''. As for the cu, you are absolutely right. I have added it.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=86999&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"2014-03-23T11:44:05Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: g" to "g"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:44, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l18">Line 18:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I use PGP; my public key ID number is 0x22C68020</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I use PGP; my public key ID number is 0x22C68020</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>ni'o mi ca se skami judri zoiny. renosopi'evorepi'erenonopi'esono ny. [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>goi'a|goi'a]] ko'a la .ibupyp. .i ti drata binxo .iku'i lenu go'i cu rirci</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>ni'o mi ca se skami judri zoiny. renosopi'evorepi'erenonopi'esono ny. [[goi'a|goi'a]] ko'a la .ibupyp. .i ti drata binxo .iku'i lenu go'i cu rirci</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i mi pilno la pygypyp. .ije te nacycme mi zoiny. noxyreregaixabinoreno ny.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i mi pilno la pygypyp. .ije te nacycme mi zoiny. noxyreregaixabinoreno ny.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=75198&oldid=prevGleki at 13:13, 13 December 20132013-12-13T13:13:40Z<p></p>
<a href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=75198&oldid=64671">Show changes</a>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:.kreig.daniyl.&diff=64671&oldid=prevGleki at 16:53, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:53:49Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
;''ja'a cai'': -- "very", "very true", "a long way from being false", "the world would have to change a lot for this to be false"<br />
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;''ja'a ru'e'': -- "slightly", "barely", "close to being false", "the world would have to change only a little for this to be false"<br />
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;''na cai'': -- "not at all", "a long way from being true", "the world would have to change a lot for this to be true"<br />
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;''na ru'e'': -- "almost", "close to being true", "the world would have to change only a little for this to be true"<br />
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''cu'i'' and ''sai'' would give intermediate degrees on the scale.<br />
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--[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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According to [http://lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter19.html#e6d12 hapter 19], you may subscript ja'a to indicate fuzzy<br />
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truth values. So an alternative to the above would be subscripting<br />
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with subjective PA cmavo. ''ja'a xi rau'' and the like. --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]<br />
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* ''ja'a xi'' is certainly the approved method for indicating fuzzy truth values on the scale between True and False -- presumably ''ja'a xi (?pi) ro'' and ''ja'a xi (?pi) no'', with fractions of ro in between. So perhaps ''ja'a xi so'i'' might mean "very". But this would constitute a new Proposed Interpretive Convention, not an established one. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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The conventions proposed here are incompatible with those proposed under [[jbocre: Three-value logic|Three-value logic]]. My sense is that we need short and easy ways to say "very", "fairly", etc. -- just see how frequent degree words are in English & other natlangs -- and that that need is so pressing that it powerfully favours the conventions described above. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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* ''ja'a xi piso'a?''<br />
** ''ja'a xi pi so'a'' means "falsish", or at least somewhere on the scale of "sort of", between truth and falsity. JAhA + CAI is for things that are true or that are false. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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* We have no such need, as it has already been satisfied. As you indicated on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page (which is incidently another way to do those things easily), all of them can be approximated with tanru using brivla like "dukse" and "mutce". [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] is the most general way to express degree, but "du'eva'e" is actually longer than just saying "dukse". --mi'e [[jbocre: .djorden.|.djorden.]]<br />
** I'm not sure who this is addressed to (I didn't say anything about tanru on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page). ''Va'e'' is more longwinded (but less crude) than JAhA+CAI, and it too is subject to Proposed Interpretive Conventions, so does not lack the vice of being innovative. Also, it is not clear to me what the exact conventions are for rendering with ''va'e'' the equivalents of JAhA+CAI and JAhA+XI. As for the use of tanru, these may satisfy some users, but they don't solve the problem of how to say very common and basic things succinctly and without vagueness. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
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*** I suspect it was addressed to me, as it was me who wrote about ''dukse'' and ''mutce'' on the [[jbocre: va'e|va'e]] page, but I did not write the ''ja'a xi piso'a?'' line! BTW, I have been using ''ja'asai'', ''ja'aru'e'' and ''nasai'' for some time (plenty of times in the Alice translation, for example). I think I haven't used ''naru'e'' enough yet, but I should. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]<br />
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John Cowan writes on [[jbocre: Jboske|Jboske]]:<br />
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;:''CAI by itself (not following UI) indicates ge'e + CAI, expressing the intensity of an unspecified emotion. CAI isn't just any old scale, it's an emotional/attitudinal scale.''<br />
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Xod replied:<br />
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;:''In usage it seems to be used the way And suggests; to modify the strength of the previous word, as opposed to the emotion of the speaker. "If you want ge'e..."''<br />
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... to which [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]] add that JAhA+CAI has actually seen usage. But given what John says, I am inclined not to support JAhA+CAI and seek some other suitably convenient and unvague way to do "very" etc.<br />
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* ''So, even though it's seen usage, you won't "support" it? --[[User:xod|xod]]''<br />
* Well, there's plenty of usage that I consider 'bad'. To take a controversial example, {da'i} has quite a clear meaning in established usage, but I think that it is 'incorrect'. So the simple fact that it has seen usage doesn't weigh heavily in its favour, in my judgement. But as I've said on Jboske, if there is a quasi-official ruling that CAI not following a UI modifies an implicit ''ge'e'', then the reasons for going against that ruling must be very compelling, and usage alone is not enough. As for what would constitute compellingness, something being badly wrong with the official ruling would count as compelling, but that does not apply in this case. I guess that if enough Lojbanists known for their probity (i.e. most people other than me) were in favour, then my reservations would be assuaged. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</div>Gleki