Relative Clause Veridical Quantification Gotcha: Difference between revisions

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Non-determinisitic finite automata (aka FNA, NDFA).
Relative clauses can attach to the [[jbocre: selbri|selbri]] of a [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]], or to the entire [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]]:


* [http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~goldberg/NOTES-aut/node2.html
*mi viska le {prenu poi klama} ku
*] http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Finite_state_machines
*mi viska le {prenu ku} poi klama
 
The default is the first; and it doesn't normally any make any difference. But if you're using a [[jbocre: veridical|veridical]] determiner (e.g. ''lo''), and a [[jbocre: non-veridical|non-veridical]] relativiser (''noi''), note that the claim is by default made of the [[jbocre: selbri|selbri]] and not of the [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]]. So
 
*mi zvati re lo {muno merjecta noi snanu}
 
means ''I've been to 2 out of the {50 U.S. states, which are in the south}'', and '''not''' ''I've been to {2 out of the 50 U.S. states}, which are in the south.'' What you should say is
 
*mi zvati {re lo muno merjecta ku} noi snanu
 
Things get even worse without overt quantifiers. [[jbocre: The Complete Lojban Language|The Complete Lojban Language]], [http://www.lojban.org/files/reference-grammar/chap8.html hapter 8] gives example (6.8):
 
*lo prenu noi blabi [[jbocre: ku|ku]] cu klama le zarci
 
This means not ''A person, who is white, went to the store'', but ''One out of {all people, who incidentally are white} went to the store'' -- namely, it assumes that all people are white!
 
Sagely, therefore, does [[jbocre: The Book|The Book]] state:
 
;:The safe strategy, therefore, is to always use ''ku'' when attaching a ''noi'' relative clause to a ''lo'' descriptor. Otherwise we may end up claiming far too much.

Revision as of 17:11, 4 November 2013

Relative clauses can attach to the selbri of a sumti, or to the entire sumti:

  • mi viska le {prenu poi klama} ku
  • mi viska le {prenu ku} poi klama

The default is the first; and it doesn't normally any make any difference. But if you're using a veridical determiner (e.g. lo), and a non-veridical relativiser (noi), note that the claim is by default made of the selbri and not of the sumti. So

  • mi zvati re lo {muno merjecta noi snanu}

means I've been to 2 out of the {50 U.S. states, which are in the south}, and not I've been to {2 out of the 50 U.S. states}, which are in the south. What you should say is

  • mi zvati {re lo muno merjecta ku} noi snanu

Things get even worse without overt quantifiers. The Complete Lojban Language, hapter 8 gives example (6.8):

  • lo prenu noi blabi ku cu klama le zarci

This means not A person, who is white, went to the store, but One out of {all people, who incidentally are white} went to the store -- namely, it assumes that all people are white!

Sagely, therefore, does The Book state:

The safe strategy, therefore, is to always use ku when attaching a noi relative clause to a lo descriptor. Otherwise we may end up claiming far too much.