Relative Clause Veridical Quantification Gotcha: Difference between revisions
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Relative clauses can attach to the [[jbocre: selbri|selbri]] of a [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]], or to the entire [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]]: | |||
* [http://www. | *mi viska le {prenu poi klama} ku | ||
*] | *mi viska le {prenu ku} poi klama | ||
The default is the first; and it doesn't normally any make any difference. But if you're using a [[jbocre: veridical|veridical]] determiner (e.g. ''lo''), and a [[jbocre: non-veridical|non-veridical]] relativiser (''noi''), note that the claim is by default made of the [[jbocre: selbri|selbri]] and not of the [[jbocre: sumti|sumti]]. So | |||
*mi zvati re lo {muno merjecta noi snanu} | |||
means ''I've been to 2 out of the {50 U.S. states, which are in the south}'', and '''not''' ''I've been to {2 out of the 50 U.S. states}, which are in the south.'' What you should say is | |||
*mi zvati {re lo muno merjecta ku} noi snanu | |||
Things get even worse without overt quantifiers. [[jbocre: The Complete Lojban Language|The Complete Lojban Language]], [http://www.lojban.org/files/reference-grammar/chap8.html hapter 8] gives example (6.8): | |||
*lo prenu noi blabi [[jbocre: ku|ku]] cu klama le zarci | |||
This means not ''A person, who is white, went to the store'', but ''One out of {all people, who incidentally are white} went to the store'' -- namely, it assumes that all people are white! | |||
Sagely, therefore, does [[jbocre: The Book|The Book]] state: | |||
;:The safe strategy, therefore, is to always use ''ku'' when attaching a ''noi'' relative clause to a ''lo'' descriptor. Otherwise we may end up claiming far too much. |
Revision as of 17:11, 4 November 2013
Relative clauses can attach to the selbri of a sumti, or to the entire sumti:
- mi viska le {prenu poi klama} ku
- mi viska le {prenu ku} poi klama
The default is the first; and it doesn't normally any make any difference. But if you're using a veridical determiner (e.g. lo), and a non-veridical relativiser (noi), note that the claim is by default made of the selbri and not of the sumti. So
- mi zvati re lo {muno merjecta noi snanu}
means I've been to 2 out of the {50 U.S. states, which are in the south}, and not I've been to {2 out of the 50 U.S. states}, which are in the south. What you should say is
- mi zvati {re lo muno merjecta ku} noi snanu
Things get even worse without overt quantifiers. The Complete Lojban Language, hapter 8 gives example (6.8):
- lo prenu noi blabi ku cu klama le zarci
This means not A person, who is white, went to the store, but One out of {all people, who incidentally are white} went to the store -- namely, it assumes that all people are white!
Sagely, therefore, does The Book state:
- The safe strategy, therefore, is to always use ku when attaching a noi relative clause to a lo descriptor. Otherwise we may end up claiming far too much.