Difference between revisions of "Lojban Central"

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{{se inspekte/en}}''Lojban Central'' is a term coined while language development was still active (early 1990s), to refer to the leadership of [[The Logical Language Group]], both in its administrative role and in its role as guiding language development. The term was first used by [[John Cowan|John Cowan]]<ref>http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00035.html</ref><ref>http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00048.html</ref> and was popularized by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]]<ref>http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00087.html</ref>.
  
''Lojban Central'' is a term coined while language development was still active (early '90s), to refer to the leadership of [[jbocre: The Logical Language Group|The Logical Language Group]], both in its administrative role and in its role as guiding language development. The term was popularised by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]], as alluded to already in [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00087.html,] but as [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00048.html] shows, it appears to originate with [[jbocre: John Cowan|John Cowan]]: [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00035.html.
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The term includes, in the first instance, [[User:Bob LeChevalier|Bob LeChevalier]] and [[Nora LeChevalier|Nora LeChevalier]]. One could argue that it includes [[pc|pc]] and [[John Cowan|John Cowan]] (who coined the term) as well. John tends not to agree (citing his Organization in email headers as ''Lojban Peripheral'' for a long time), and used the term to refer to Bob and Nora very early on<ref>http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00074.html</ref>. Nevertheless, he used <ref>http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9201/msg00102.html</ref> it in the sense that included himself. It is perfectly legitimate, of course, for membership in Lojban Central to be fuzzy (as in [[Fuzzy Logic]]). And since it is invoked in a fashion similar to the [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/cabal-conspiracy-FAQ/ Usenet Cabal] of yore, membership in it is probably also fairly nebulous.
  
The] term includes, in the first instance, [[User:Bob LeChevalier|Bob LeChevalier]] and [[jbocre: Nora LeChevalier|Nora LeChevalier]]. One could argue that it includes [[jbocre: pc|pc]] and [[jbocre: John Cowan|John Cowan]] (who coined the term) as well. John tends not to agree (citing his Organization in email headers as ''Lojban Peripheral'' for a long time), and used the term to refer to Bob and Nora very early on: [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9108/msg00074.html] . (But see [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9201/msg00102.html] , where he uses it to include himself.) It is perfectly legitimate, of course, for membership in Lojban Central to be fuzzy (as in [[jbocre: Fuzzy Logic|Fuzzy Logic]].) And since it is invoked in a fashion similar to the [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/cabal-conspiracy-FAQ/ senet Cabal] of yore, membership in it is probably also fairly nebulous.
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The political undertones of the phrase (introducing an ''us-and-them'' tone) are clear, and are not necessarily welcomed by the referents of the phrase: the LLG has always insisted that the language is controlled only by the community (once the [[baseline]] is achieved), and happily the language community has not been plagued by the kind of dictatorial control exemplified by Schleyer and his Volapük. It did, after all, originate in a [[Loglan|schism]] provoked by just such control.
  
The political undertones of the phrase (introducing an ''us-and-them'' tone) are clear, and are not necessarily welcomed by the referents of the phrase: the LLG has always insisted that the language is controlled only by the community (once the [[baseline|baseline]] is achieved), and happily the language community has not been plagued by the kind of dictatorial control exemplified by Schleyer and Volap�k. (It did, after all, originate in a [[jbocre: Loglan chism|Loglan chism]] provoked by just such control.)
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Many of the contentions people have around Lojban Central originate in the [[supplicatory model]].
  
Many of the contentions people have around Lojban Central originate in the [[supplicatory model|supplicatory model]].
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==Discussion==
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*[[xod]]:
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*:[[Lojban Cabal|Lojban Cabal]]? We meet on alternating Wednesdays and the meetings are held in English. I have taken "Lojban Central" to mean the LLG membership, but 'Central isn't necessarily the locus of actual language development, and nobody thinks it has any coercive authority, or has necessarily unified opinion on anything. Hence the term lacks the political resonations that might arise with, say, the Central Committee of a Communist Party.
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**[[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]:
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**:Admittedly, the definition above reflects the author's perceptions as they were formed in the early '90s, when there was certainly a clear sense of at least power of veto and coordination emanating from a Lojban Central. (Well, that was my sense, anyway.) The publication of [[The Complete Lojban Language]], and more recent developments render this perception partially obsolete. There is, however, still a board (with its membership recently surprisingly augmented!), and there are still administrative decisions being taken. So while the resonances aren't as strong as the CCCP, they aren't zero, either. [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/8779 One message], for example, speaks of Lojban Central as an entity with vetting power, distinct from the LLG. The line it takes is by no means universally held in the community (yes, we know who posted it :-) ); but some people in the community are inclined to think this way... (For a possible example, see the currently bottommost entry in [[baseline|baseline]].)
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*[[And]]:
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*:To me, ''Lojban Central'' has resonances of ''Moscow Centre'', Soviet espionage HQ in the novels of John Le Carre. Hence it has a sense both of something Soviet, operating by diktat, and something secret and closed to outsiders. The term is jocular of course; Lojbab is hardly Karla!
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*[[Lojban Cabal|Lojban Cabal]] = [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/9028 Voting member-only mailing list]?
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**[[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]:
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**:You be the judge. Shoe's on the other foot now, given I'm now a member of it! (The mailing list, that is, not necessarily xod's Cabal...)
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***[[xod]]:
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***:The mailing list, of course, is only a front for the outer layer of the Cabal. We want you to think that's who is in charge. The real power lies elsewhere...
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**** The wives?
 +
***** The Illuminati? Sure, you like to think they use TLI Loglan, but...
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****[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]:
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****:hrm. i've love to see shea and anton's illuminatus trilogy translated. that'd be an absolute mindfuck. i'll pay for a completed translation. bids? :)
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*[[xod]]:
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*:'''.i mi'e xod .i ru'a le fetspe cu natfe vlipa .iki'ubo za'a fy. pu'i fanta vu'enai le zu'o le nakspe cu penmi'''
  
----
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==References==
 
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<references />
''[[jbocre: Lojban Cabal|Lojban Cabal]]? We meet on alternating Wednesdays and the meetings are held in English. I have taken "Lojban Central" to mean the LLG membership, but 'Central isn't necessarily the locus of actual language development, and nobody thinks it has any coercive authority, or has necessarily unified opinion on anything. Hence the term lacks the political resonations that might arise with, say, the Central Committee of a Communist Party.  --xod''
 
 
 
Admittedly, the definition above reflects the author's perceptions (''mi'e [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]'' :-) ) as they were formed in the early '90s, when there was certainly a clear sense of at least power of veto and coordination emanating from a Lojban Central. (Well, that was my sense, anyway.) The publication of [[jbocre: The Complete Lojban Language|The Complete Lojban Language]], and more recent developments render this perception partially obsolete. There is, however, still a board (with its membership recently surprisingly augmented!), and there are still administrative decisions being taken. So while the resonances aren't as strong as the CCCP, they aren't zero, either. [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/8779] , for example, speaks of Lojban Central as an entity with vetting power, distinct from the LLG. The line it takes is by no means universally held in the community (yes, we know who posted it :-) ); but some people in the community are inclined to think this way... --- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]. (For a possible example, see the currently bottommost entry in [[baseline|baseline]].)
 
 
 
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To me, ''Lojban Central'' has resonances of ''Moscow Centre'', Soviet espionage HQ in the novels of John Le Carre. Hence it has a sense both of something Soviet, operating by diktat, and something secret and closed to outsiders. The term is jocular of course; Lojbab is hardly Karla! (''mi'e And'')
 
 
 
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[[jbocre: Lojban Cabal|Lojban Cabal]] == [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/9028 oting member-only mailing list]?
 
 
 
You be the judge.
 
 
 
''Shoe's on the other foot now, given I'm now a member of it! (The mailing list, that is, not necessarily xod's Cabal...)'' -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]
 
 
 
The mailing list, of course, is only a front for the outer layer of the Cabal. We want you to think that's who is in charge. The real power lies elsewhere...--xod
 
 
 
* The wives?
 
* The Illuminati? Sure, you like to think they use TLI Loglan, but...
 
 
 
** hrm. i've love to see shea and anton's illuminatus trilogy translated. that'd be an absolute mindfuck. i'll pay for a completed translation. bids? :) --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]
 
 
 
''.i mi'e xod .i ru'a le fetspe cu natfe vlipa .iki'ubo za'a fy. pu'i fanta vu'enai le zu'o le nakspe cu penmi''
 

Latest revision as of 11:59, 26 September 2014

Lojban Central is a term coined while language development was still active (early 1990s), to refer to the leadership of The Logical Language Group, both in its administrative role and in its role as guiding language development. The term was first used by John Cowan[1][2] and was popularized by Nick Nicholas[3].

The term includes, in the first instance, Bob LeChevalier and Nora LeChevalier. One could argue that it includes pc and John Cowan (who coined the term) as well. John tends not to agree (citing his Organization in email headers as Lojban Peripheral for a long time), and used the term to refer to Bob and Nora very early on[4]. Nevertheless, he used [5] it in the sense that included himself. It is perfectly legitimate, of course, for membership in Lojban Central to be fuzzy (as in Fuzzy Logic). And since it is invoked in a fashion similar to the Usenet Cabal of yore, membership in it is probably also fairly nebulous.

The political undertones of the phrase (introducing an us-and-them tone) are clear, and are not necessarily welcomed by the referents of the phrase: the LLG has always insisted that the language is controlled only by the community (once the baseline is achieved), and happily the language community has not been plagued by the kind of dictatorial control exemplified by Schleyer and his Volapük. It did, after all, originate in a schism provoked by just such control.

Many of the contentions people have around Lojban Central originate in the supplicatory model.

Discussion

  • xod:
    Lojban Cabal? We meet on alternating Wednesdays and the meetings are held in English. I have taken "Lojban Central" to mean the LLG membership, but 'Central isn't necessarily the locus of actual language development, and nobody thinks it has any coercive authority, or has necessarily unified opinion on anything. Hence the term lacks the political resonations that might arise with, say, the Central Committee of a Communist Party.
    • nitcion:
      Admittedly, the definition above reflects the author's perceptions as they were formed in the early '90s, when there was certainly a clear sense of at least power of veto and coordination emanating from a Lojban Central. (Well, that was my sense, anyway.) The publication of The Complete Lojban Language, and more recent developments render this perception partially obsolete. There is, however, still a board (with its membership recently surprisingly augmented!), and there are still administrative decisions being taken. So while the resonances aren't as strong as the CCCP, they aren't zero, either. One message, for example, speaks of Lojban Central as an entity with vetting power, distinct from the LLG. The line it takes is by no means universally held in the community (yes, we know who posted it :-) ); but some people in the community are inclined to think this way... (For a possible example, see the currently bottommost entry in baseline.)
  • And:
    To me, Lojban Central has resonances of Moscow Centre, Soviet espionage HQ in the novels of John Le Carre. Hence it has a sense both of something Soviet, operating by diktat, and something secret and closed to outsiders. The term is jocular of course; Lojbab is hardly Karla!
  • Lojban Cabal = Voting member-only mailing list?
    • nitcion:
      You be the judge. Shoe's on the other foot now, given I'm now a member of it! (The mailing list, that is, not necessarily xod's Cabal...)
      • xod:
        The mailing list, of course, is only a front for the outer layer of the Cabal. We want you to think that's who is in charge. The real power lies elsewhere...
        • The wives?
          • The Illuminati? Sure, you like to think they use TLI Loglan, but...
        • Jay:
          hrm. i've love to see shea and anton's illuminatus trilogy translated. that'd be an absolute mindfuck. i'll pay for a completed translation. bids? :)
  • xod:
    .i mi'e xod .i ru'a le fetspe cu natfe vlipa .iki'ubo za'a fy. pu'i fanta vu'enai le zu'o le nakspe cu penmi

References