LLG 2020 Annual Meeting Minutes

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2020 LLG Members Meeting

The minutes reflect discussion in the “LLG 2020 Members Mtg” channel on the framateam/mattermost forum. (https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/llg-2020-members-mtg) Discussion from side channels is considered off the record by default, but summaries are welcomed as amendments. Here is a transcript of the meeting channel.

The “LLG 2020 Members Mtg” channel was opened on September 14, 2020. On September 26, 2020, the meeting was called to order by the president, Karen Stein.

Roll call

Members participating in the meeting

  • Pierre Abbat / .piier.abát.
  • Arkadii Balandin / gleki
  • Sylvain Déjardin / ilmen
  • Ali Sajid Imami / banseljaj
  • Nora LeChevalier / noras
  • Robert LeChevalier / lojbab
  • Aris Merchant / bookofportals
  • Riley Martinez-Lynch / mukti
  • And Rosta
  • Karen Stein / Karis
  • Veijo Vilva / veion
  • Wesley Wilson / ueslis.uilsyn

Members not present

  • Miles Foster
  • Curtis Franks
  • Jorge Llambias
  • Robin Lee Powell
  • Paul Swift
  • Lynn Van Hauwe
  • Tommy Whitlock

Non-members observers and participants

  • Ethan Dole / prenuvaic
  • Mike S
  • Joshua Suskalo / srasu / saski’os (applying for membership)
  • xanri

By October 7, the president determined that quorum had been reached. On October 14, with no objections, the requirement for prior notice of the meeting was deemed as satisfied.


President's Report (Karen Stein)

Internal conflict during the Members Meeting made it much longer and less effective than it should have been. In addition, much of it was about the same issue that has come up every several years -- Is lojban the primary focus of the LLG. The answer is yes. Lojban has always been the primary focus of the LLG and continues to be. We are happy to support other logical languages of interest to our Members and followers only secondary to lojban.

We did get some important work done as well:

To remove the confusion of having two gadri descriptions we voted to make the one at the following page official:


The Members Meeting got the new language committee, founded in 2019, under way. It got off to a good start and will hopefully be able to continue its work.

We worked to form a committee to address the interests of some in lojbanistan in other lojbanistan languages. It is unclear at this time if the committee exists as anything more than an idea at this time due to some of the disagreements that occurred. I would like to have such a committee to interface with other logical language communities and work being done under the auspices of the LLG using its own website to avoid issues of the committee being under lojban at lojban.org. Some work towards this was accomplished.

Much of this past year has also involved each and every one of us dealing with Covid-19. That's taken a toll in many ways on all of us and on the work that's been done since February or so.

Report of the Lojbo Fuzykamni (LFK, presented by Aris Merchant)

The LFK got off to a seemingly very successful start in January and February. We adopted procedures and began productive discussions about structuring an official Lojban dictionary, which led to us setting up the dictionary as a wiki. We agreed that the dictionary was our highest priority project. We also had some early discussions about organizing an RFC process, as called for by our charter. We also had initial discussions about how to take over the maintenance of the CLL.

Things changed dramatically in March when committee activity came to an abrupt halt. Although we did not formally discuss why at the time, it is apparent that the primary cause was the COVID-19 pandemic, which interrupted the lives of people around the world. Unfortunately, our activity never resumed. The committee is not currently active, and approving this report is the first objective we have finished in months.

The committee believes that our early work is worth continuing. It appears that most of the committee members are around but currently inactive. To continue work towards our goals, the committee would have to resume activity, which would likely involve recruiting new people. It is unclear how successful we would be at doing this, given the current world circumstances and most committee members' inactive status. If we could become active again, we believe that the next step would be resuming our projects (the dictionary, CLL, and RFC projects) as resources allow.


The president made a call for new members, and Joshua Suskalo nominated himself. Mukti asked for a candidate statement, which included legal name of candidate members. Gleki suggested that candidates should include an introductory statement in lojban.

Joshua Suskalo responded with a recorded introduction of himself speaking lojban. Mukti provided a transcription of the recording, which was amended by the speaker.

There were four votes in favor of adding Joshua as a member, but a decision was not announced during the meeting.

Karen asked for a clarification of the membership status of Paul Swift and Adam Lopresto. Mukti clarified that Adam is no longer a member.


The president called for candidates to the Board of Directors to nominate themselves.

  • Arkadii Balandin
  • Robert LeChevalier
  • Riley Martinez-Lynch
  • Karen Stein

The board was reelected without objection.

Old business

First item, Ilmen's proposal: "We should decide how to share lojban.org between LLG content, LFK content, and community content". He proposed that LFK sections be limited to editing by LFK, and LLG sections be limited to editing by directors.

Karen suggested that Ilmen's proposal that LFK pages be only editable by LFK be amended such that officers of LLG also be authorized, since the authorization of LFK is an extension of the organization as a whole. Ilmen welcomed this as a friendly amendment.

Ueslis spoke to the need to help newcomers to lojban to understand changes since the publication of CLL. Gleki, Karen, and Pier concurred. Karen asked what we should do to move this forward.

Ilmen proposed a LLG page with a changelog, indicating that it could also be an LFK page, but having it in the LLG section would signify the official sanction.

Ilmen expanded his proposal as follows:

I move that three different sections be created on the lojban.org website: • An LLG section containing all the LLG pages and other official materials; this section would be modifiable only by LLG Board members or persons appointed by the LLG for that task. • An LFK section for the LFK page, modifiable only by LFK members and LLG Board members (and possibly people appointed by them for the task). • A community section (I'd recommend `cecmu` for its name) for harboring pages created by registered lojban.org users; the materials in this section would be clearly indicated as being unofficial.

These sections may be reflected in the URL of pages (for example something like `https://mw.lojban.org/papri/LLG/main`, `https://mw.lojban.org/papri/cecmu/xorlo`) and should be indicated at the top of the pages they contain (I suppose that one of the easiest way to do that in the current setup is to prepend the section name to the page title, as is the case with the UserWiki:username personal page sections, see https://mw.lojban.org/papri/UserWiki:Ilmen/lo_smuni_be_zo_kau for an example).

Pier seconded the motion, and it passed without objection.

Ilmen asked if the authorization of BPFK gadri had been announced publicly. There was no clear response.

New business

Approval amended of CLL version (as available ...). Pierre and Ilmen expressed several specific concerns. Wesley suggested that an updated version of CLL should include xorlo and fu'ivla rafsi. Ilmen proposed referring the updates to the LFK, which upon approving an edition, can forward it to the Board to coordinate publication. Passed without objection.


The meeting was ended without objection on March 16, 2021.