LLG 2001 Annual Meeting Minutes

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Minutes of the 2001 Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

The thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was called to order on July 29, 2001 at 11:17 AM EDT.

Non-members in attendance at the annual meeting were:

  • Robin Powell voted in as member during the meeting
  • Charles Hope (Xod) voted in as member during the meeting
  • Olivia

Roll call was taken of the members.

Members attending (13) were:

  • John Cowan
  • John Hodges
  • Shawn Lasseter
  • Nora LeChevalier
  • Robert (Bob) LeChevalier
  • Keith Lynch
  • Alex (Alexandra) Miles-Lasseter
  • Nick Nicholas
  • Paul Francis OSullivan
  • Mark Shoulson
  • David Twery
  • Tommy Whitlock
  • David Crowell

Members "present" (12) by proxy:

  • Athelstan proxy to Nora LeChevalier, with instructions
  • Dave Barton proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • Gary Burgess proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • John Clifford proxy to Nora LeChevalier
  • Ivan Derzhanski proxy to Mark Shoulson
  • Arnt Johansen proxy to Charles Hope (Xod)
  • Jorge Llambias proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • And Rosta proxy to John Cowan
  • Yevgeny Sklyanin proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • Robin Turner proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • Veijo Vilva proxy to Bob LeChevalier
  • David Young proxy to Nora LeChevalier

Members not in attendance (5) were:

  • Ethan Fremen
  • Guy Garnett
  • Karen Stein

Roll call of members: Taken.

Chair turned over to Vice President, John Cowan.

No proper notice of meeting by Secretary/Treasurer was given (per Article 3, Section 4 of the Bylaws); therefore no bylaw amendments may be made.

Reading of the Minutes: Minutes from last meeting were read and accepted.

Report of officers: Secretary/Treasurer, by President:

  • Organization delinquent 6-7 quarters in state sales tax
  • Book orders almost caught up
  • Other orders not done
  • Estimated 5-6 thousand in liability for balances.
  • Expenses: CAIS (internet site) account $800 per year (although we are investigating CAIS claim we didnt pay last year)
  • Visa/Mastercard/Amex service $30 per month, plus extra charges
  • about $1500 income, $1500 expense
  • Income: net negative
  • $3000 left on book loan
  • $2600 in bank
  • Book Sales total: 360 (about 40 since last year)

Report of officers - President:

  • Printer settlement money received and deposited. About 6 bad books sent out since. Recipients have usually accepted PDF file of bad pages.
  • Yevgeny Sklyanin translating gismu into Russian. Also maintaining index of things happening on the website.
  • Production of Dictionary: advanced slightly. Nick Nicholas has keyworded a large list of used lujvo. Jay Kominek has an archive site for searching text for the usage and has set up a website supporting dictionary updating by the group.
  • Nick took on the Level 0 book task. He has a draft level zero book, and a draft textbook/primer as an expansion of Robin Turners work (although its not to be the baseline textbook, its more like a Teach Yourself book); both are being reviewed.
  • On Nicks efforts, Bob commented that we cannot publish 2 books now due to monetary considerations.
  • Robin Powell and Jay Kominek have each set up links to other sites, including Lojban Wiki (which facilitates people working together on a project).
  • A translation of Alice in Wonderland is nearly complete. This project has used CVS (a configuration management tool) to keep track of and help resolve problems due to changes by multiple people on a project. Nick is also using it for his books.
  • Bjrn Gohla has begun translating the draft level 0 book into German.
  • A Lojban phrasebook is being compiled (primarily by Pierre Abbat).
  • Pierre Abbat and others are also working on a bible translation from the original languages.
  • The Imeme offer (from Ethan Fremen and Jake Berglund) came to naught; the Board was not satisfied.
  • Robin Powell is committing to take over as administrator for the web-site; wed been interested in looking at another option than CAIS.
  • We are also interested in other options for credit card processing. Perhaps Pay Pal online credit or Verisign.
  • Recognition for Charles Hope (Xod) as keeping promise of speaking Lojban for the entire LogFest.

Report of Committees:

  • Level 0 package committee (1998,99: John Cowan, chairman; David Twery; Tommy Whitlock; Bob LeChevalier): No report.
  • Internet site committee (1999: David Twery, Chairman; Shawn Lasseter; Nick Nicholas): No report.
  • Finance (aka Poverty) Committee: No report.
  • On-line ordering (1997: Mark Shoulson, chairman): No report.
  • WorldCon committee (1998: Keith Lynch, chairman; David Bowen; Bob LeChevalier): No report.
  • Meeting notice (1994: Bob LeChevalier and John Cowan): No report.
  • Grant proposal: (1996: Dave Barton, chairman; Dave Twery; and Bob LeChevalier): No report.
  • Streamlining meeting procedures (1999: John Cowan, chairman): No report.

Consideration of new members or removal of old members:

  • MOVED: To send notice to Colin and Karen that if they do not participate by presence or proxy at the next annual meeting they will be terminated with no further vote needed.
  • Motion then divided into 2 parts, one for each person:
  • 1. Notice to Karen : PASSED.
  • 2. Notice to Colin : PASSED.
  • MOVED: To offer membership to Charles Hope (Xod). : PASSED.

Election of Board of Directors:

  • Current Board includes John Cowan, Shawn Lasseter, Bob LeChevalier, Nora LeChevalier, Alex Miles-Lasseter and David Twery and John Clifford. Maximum of 7 allowed.
  • Alex wishes to step down from Board.
  • MOVED: To elect John Clifford, John Cowan, Shawn Lasseter, Bob LeChevalier, Nora LeChevalier : PASSED as AMENDED.
  • FRIENDLY AMENDMENT: Offer Board membership to Nick Nichols and Charles Hope (Xod) as well : ACCEPTED.
  • MOVED: To thank the departing Board members for their participation: PASSED by acclamation.

Old/Unfinished Business:

  • MOVED: To rescind approval in principle on the Imeme offer. : PASSED.

New Business:

  • MOVED: To use these flyers flyers created during Logfest exhibited for distribution at World Con; Board to work out details : PASSED.
  • MOVED: To make the flyers available, to any interested party attending a Science Fiction or related convention, for distribution, at the discretion of the Board : PASSED as AMENDED.
  • FRIENDLY AMENDMENT: Also make available on Lojban web-site for people to distribute without Board approval - ACCEPTED.
  • MOVED: To reduce dependence on the Internet : FAILED.
  • There was discussion on the pros and cons of Internet involvement here. Athelstans position that the Internet is de-humanizing was noted. Other members disagreed, saying that increased communication can be humanizing. There was general consensus that we need to pay more attention to Lojbanists not on the Internet, however.
  • MOVED: That the mailing list be compiled with all deliberate speed, and then notice sent to all members announcing the book(s) and level of activity in advance of any LK (the Lojbo Karni newsletter) : PASSED.
  • Updated report on book-writing (Level 0 and Textbook lessons) by Nick:


Lessons (15) completed, reviewed by some of the on-line community, then revised; there are still comments pending. More examples and exercises added. There is some concern about the level that the book is aimed at. Comes to 280 pages, including vocabulary but not index nor additional exercises.


Level 0 package, as currently designed, contains:


  • What is Lojban / la lojban mo


  • Overview


  • Diagrammed Summary


  • Linguistic Issues (mostly response to Zwickys questions)


  • 4 glossed texts


Does not contain mini-lesson nor FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) sections.


  • MOVED: For informal consideration : PASSED.
  • Discussion on proposed content for Level 0 package/book ensued, resulting in possibility of Bob combining the Overview, the Zwicky answers and an essay on Lojban and linguistics research (previously written by Bob) into one section.
  • MOVED: To make clear that Nick has full editorial discretion over the content of books on which hes working; the Board can then decide whether to take on the actual publication as an LLG book. : PASSED.
  • MOVED: To have an e-mail mailing list for Lojban announcements (low volume); to also look into other mailing lists (membership, Board) : PASSED.
  • Discussion here on tracking Grammar change proposals. Proposal was to formalize the process that John Clifford has been doing with the 'record' discussions, with rigid format record with a place for no-approval suggestions. It was brought up that sometimes discussions start up on points that have previously been well-discussed and decided on, but that those involved in the current discussions did not see.
  • MOVED: That the Board will institute some system, on and off the internet, of permanently documenting discussion, decisions, and proposals for change, so that they are available to interested parties without the need to rediscuss. : PASSED.
  • MOVED: That LLG ask John Clifford to write a draft work dealing with 'Lojban and logic', in the sense of addressing problems of Lojban (things not decided, or things not appropriate level for the Reference Grammar) at a level not tutorial, and which fills in gaps in the Reference Grammar that havent been defined. : PASSED.
  • This followed discussion on a book on 'Lojban and Logic', and disagreement over what this might mean.
  • During this discussion, Mark Shoulson leaves, proxy to Nick for himself and Ivan.
  • Also, Shawn leaves, proxy to Alex.
  • MOVED: That a complete logical specification of the language be written and submitted to the Board : WITHDRAWN.
  • Bob LeChevalier wants it noted that the Baseline has begun on some parts of the language, but that the 5-years of the complete baseline does not begin until we have the real Dictionary, real Textbook and Reference Grammar (unless the organization votes otherwise).
  • MOVED: To thank Nick for his work on the level 0 package book and the lesson revisions : PASSED.
  • Sense of organization was that we might want to consider bundling Nicks work into the real Textbook.
  • Action item proposed by Bob: Add to the Web page our approval (already voted on last meeting) of Lojban as a pivot language for European patent system. Charles Hope (Xod) and Robin agreed to do this.
  • MOVED: To thank Robin Turner for his work on the lessons. : PASSED.
  • MOVED: To adjourn meeting. - PASSED.

The 13th Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was adjourned at approximately 2:45 PM EDT.

I certify that the above motions were presented to all members present for discussion and approval, and that all motions were approved as noted. I further certify that these minutes are an accurate representation of the thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

Nora LeChevalier

Secretary/Treasurer