LLG 1990 Annual Meeting Minutes

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Minutes of the 1990 Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

The second Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was called to order on June 17, 1990 at 10:14 AM EDT.

Non-members in attendance at the annual meeting were:

  • Jack Waugh
  • Art Wieners *
  • Karen Stein *
  • Bert Fox
  • Guy Barnett *
  • Keith Lynch
  • Paul Francis O'Sullivan

(Those accepted into the membership during the meeting are shown with "*".)

Roll call was taken of the members.

Members attending were:

  • Nora LeChevalier
  • Robert (Bob) LeChevalier
  • John Parks-Clifford
  • Tommy Whitlock
  • Albion Zeglin
  • Athelstan
  • John Hodges

Members not in attendance were:

  • Jeff Taylor

Nora LeChevalier certified that a meeting notice had been sent at least 10 days in advance of the meeting.

Reading of the Minutes:

A summary of the minutes of the last meeting was read.

Financial Report:

The financial report was given by Robert LeChevalier. He noted that in March, the Board had decided on re-evaluating finances in April to see which budget to follow. His results showed that the finances were so bad that which budget to follow was meaningless.

We are 20% behind last year in income, and 20% behind last year in percent paying. We are getting new level 3's. People are generally paying for orders, but not for JL (ju'i lobypli) or LK (lojbo karni).

There is $1237 in the checking account, with $1800 outstanding in bills from lawyers. We are about to pay $1200 of the lawyer bills.

Committee Reports:

Grants: Athelstan reported no action taken yet, but that he anticipates that in the next month, he may check into small grants to see what they are looking for. John Hodges recommended looking into the Point Foundation through the Whole Earth Review. Karen Stein brought up getting a fund raiser; she knows one who is just starting up.

Election of Board of Directors:

  • MOVED: To delay election of Board of Directors until after members' election. - PASSED.

Old Business:


We've been approved to accept Mastercard/Visa payments. The fee is 6%, with a minimum of $15 per month. The ability to accept charges may be important to selling the textbook. The Board of Directors will review our keeping the charge ability after a few months to see if it is feasible to keep it.


"Amicable settlement offer" received from JCB (James Cooke Brown); among other things, it requires us to supply JCB with our current mailing list. This lead to a discussion of our mailing list availability, with no motion for change in current policies (list not for sale, but addresses supplied to those needing them for lojbanic purposes).

  • MOVED: To reject JCB's offer on the grounds that it is hostile and without merit - PASSED.

Publicity Campaign:

Report of attendance at WorldCon in September, 1989: Over 750 brochures given out. Fifty to sixty signed up (over half as level 3, with most paying).

Athelstan will be attending WorldCon in Europe this year. He intends to travel in Europe afterwards, visiting lojbanists and giving mini-lessons in France, Germany and Italy.

John Hodges and Karen Stein reported about their efforts at Technicon. They gave brochures to all attendees, but only got a few to their talk. One, however, was the artist Guest of Honor.

John also gave brochures to all attendees at Rovicon.

Bob LeChevalier mentioned that we are not particularly trying for publicity at this stage because of our financial situation and the trademark dispute.

Bob reported that Jeffrey Chamberlain, of the linguistics department of George Mason University, wants us on the seminar schedule.

New Business:

Policy on electronic distribution of material:

Background: Bob LeChevalier requested direction from the members on a policy about electronic distribution, based on his discussions with Eric Tiedeman. Eric would prefer that all materials be in electronically readable form to be able to freely distribute on electronic bulletin boards. Bob doesn't want draft material to be freely distributed because of the difficulty in correcting it once a final form has been approved.

The discussion included: Do we track down already-distributed material that needs correction? What will and what won't be ultimately distributed electronically? What steps do we take to ensure that what is distributed is good?

Generally agreed-upon results (no motions made; no voting done): Financial situation limits ability to track down already distributed material, and will also limit ability to distribute draft material in the future. The gismu lists and the grammar of the 1st mini-lesson (may help sales of textbook) could be distributed freely. Shareware items will include request for donations and a stock header mentioning the 501(c)(3) status of the organization. We will request (in the next JL) that others who distribute their own information on lojban, or changed versions of our distributed information, put a header on it saying that it is an unofficial document. We are to encourage the use of clearinghouses (such as the Planned Languages File Server, on the Unix network) for electronic distribution. The textbook is not to be

freely distributed.

"The members meeting decided that it was not the policy of the Group to distribute in-process materials or materials published for commercial distribution (as opposed to basic descriptive or generic information-bearing materials). We welcome the distribution of others' materials if they wish".

Karen proposed that the 1st mini-lesson be put ASAP into electronic medium for distribution, with a standard header describing our distribution policy, and stating that the full textbook will be available.

  • MOVED: That a committee be set up to see it (Karen's suggestion) done - PASSED. (Note: The general understanding was that this committee will also look further into setting policy for all other open issues on electronic distribution.)

Royalties for software & textbook:

Background information: Mac LojFlash is paying $5 royalty per copy ($20 charge). LogFlash is the property of Bob and Nora LeChevalier; no royalties until 500 sold.

General discussion of copyright-holder when many have contributed to the work. Specific discussion about the textbook and dictionary, for which Bob LeChevalier will be the "primary author and editor". Generally agreed that the sharing of royalties should be agreed upon among the major contributors, rather than anything set by LLG.

  • MOVED: That LLG will buy copyright to software, textbook and dictionary, with royalties of not less than 5%. Bob to be considered primary author and editor of textbook and dictionary. - PASSED.

Scheduling of next Annual Members' Meeting (& Logfest):

Mention of difficulties of having Annual Meeting and LogFest on Fathers' Day weekend.

  • MOVED: To change the wording of the first sentence of Article 3, Section 4 of the by-laws to read: "The annual meeting of the members shall be held at such place as the Directors shall designate on the first Sunday following the 20th day of June each year, at 10 o'clock in the morning of that day." - PASSED

Discussion about having a second LogFest. It was mentioned that the business and decision-making needs take up too much of LogFest; there isn't enough time for fun activities with the language. A second LogFest could be devoted to more of the fun activities; no business meeting.

  • MOVED: That a second LogFest be held this year in September or October - PASSED.

Discussion of date. Problems with midterms, Bob & Nora travel plans, Athelstan travel plans. Should have a different name: "LogFair"? Needs to be publicized in JL.

Election of new members:

Reading of duties and responsibilities of members.

Art Wieners, Karen Stein and Guy Barnett stated interest in becoming members. John Cowan (not present) has also stated he wishes to become a member.

  • MOVED: That all 4 mentioned who so wish be made members - PASSED.

From this point on, the new members were included in the voting.

Election of Board of Directors:

Jeff Taylor and Tommy Whitlock requested to not be considered for posts on the Board of Directors this time.

Volunteers for work on the Board of Directors were: Bob and Nora LeChevalier, John Parks-Clifford (pc), Athelstan and Albion Zeglin.

  • MOVED: That all 5 volunteers be elected. - PASSED. Policy towards institutions:

Libraries can afford it; we can charge higher. For classes we just want to stay above costs; maybe give a bulk discount.

Finances - how to cut our losses:

A lively discussion included:

50% matching of contributions for those with very negative balances; to encourage them to pay at least something.

What a new inquirer receives from us and how much it costs us. What does a newcomer really need? They need word lists. Synopsis should go to level 3 only.

Keep track of starting LK dates. If balance negative for over 1 year, send "fund-raising letter" or drop to level B; perhaps wait on this until after the textbook is out.

Only send 1 LK to new people, with a request for confirmation that they wish to continue receiving it.

Send a "fund-raising resubscription letter" out first class.

Send a short separate letter to those with large negative balances every so often. It would have 3 boxes: 1) Continue to send material; here is $ towards my balance, 2) I can't pay at this time, but please continue sending material, and 3) Drop me from your list.

Accept some advertising in JL. (Rebuttal was that the effort involved would not yield much money.)

Classified section ads for $5 for Lojban-related materials.

Discussion of previous meeting's suggestion of only sending 1 to 3 lessons at first to those requesting. Cost effectiveness not high. First lesson isn't much use if it is the only lesson sent.

Prepare hard-copy version of electronic mail introductory mini-lesson with a worksheet to return. No additional lesson material until either paid for in advance or attempt to complete worksheet. (This was by consensus added to the charter of the electronic mail policy committee.)

Limit the number of issues of JL with no payment unless they write; drop to LK.

  • MOVED: For those who have balances below -$40, we need to hear from them or we will drop them to level 1. a) for level 1 & 2: send less material at first; b) if additional material is requested at time of subscription but no money for it is sent, request a 2nd letter of confirmation "for our files" be sent before we will send anything; c) if we do not hear from them afterwards and they drop below -$40, drop them in level. - PASSED.

Send a "fund-raising letter" to all those with large negative balances. If no response, drop them. If they are still interested, request at least a token payment towards their negative balances.

Shorten JL.

Increase prices.

Set up a committee to review volunteer work so those with large negative balances can "pay" with volunteer work when they can't pay with money.

Eliminate the voluntary balance system altogether; only send to those who pay. We will need a slow conversion to this system.

  • MOVED: That a vote be taken by mail, after a plan is created, on what to do about those with large negative balances. - PASSED.

A committee was set up to create a plan. Guy Barnett is chairing the committee; Athelstan is also on the committee.

Suggested as possible topics, but not discussed:

Plan for textbook and dictionary.

Rules for baseline establishment and changes.

Baseline of grammar:

  • MOVED: That a preliminary baseline be declared for the grammar (6 months to 1 year) if no problems come up this weekend, pending acceptance of all reviewed yesterday and today. - PASSED.

Proposed changes to gismu baseline:

  • MOVED: That acceptance of gismu changes be discussed and voted upon in person by those members present at the time of discussion, and by phone for any members not present for the particular discussion. Ratification by 50% needed. - PASSED.

(Note: Results of the voting, collected by Bob LeChevalier, are separately enclosed.)

The first Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc. was adjourned at 2:20 PM EDT.

I certify that the above motions were presented to all members present for discussion and approval, and that all motions were approved as noted. I further certify that these minutes are an accurate representation of the second Annual Meeting of the Members of The Logical Language Group, Inc.

Nora LeChevalier