Difference between revisions of "How to say it in Lojban"

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This is a page where people can ask whether they've correctly understood, written, or translated some non-trivial bit of Lojban.
  
 
Some concepts are harder to express in Lojban than others... These are the fruits of sometimes extremely lengthy discussions, but are by no means to be regarded as the last word, in some cases!
 
Some concepts are harder to express in Lojban than others... These are the fruits of sometimes extremely lengthy discussions, but are by no means to be regarded as the last word, in some cases!
  
Also see [[is this correct|is this correct]]?
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See also [[What does it mean?]] for problems going the other way.
 
 
See also [[what does it mean?]] for problems going the other way.
 
  
 
See [[Simple Phrases|Simple Phrases]] for a small phrase book.
 
See [[Simple Phrases|Simple Phrases]] for a small phrase book.
  
 
==== Grammar ====
 
==== Grammar ====
 
 
* [[Do you want coffee or tea?]]
 
* [[Do you want coffee or tea?]]
 
* [[if|if]] --- and, related, [[da'i|da'i]] and [[conditional|conditional]]
 
* [[if|if]] --- and, related, [[da'i|da'i]] and [[conditional|conditional]]
 
 
* [[unless|unless]]
 
* [[unless|unless]]
 
* [[only|only]]
 
* [[only|only]]
 
 
* [[The 17 tallest men]]
 
* [[The 17 tallest men]]
 
* [[I'm stronger than last year|I'm stronger than last year]]
 
* [[I'm stronger than last year|I'm stronger than last year]]
 
 
* [[How old are you?]]
 
* [[How old are you?]]
 
* [[Frank likes Betty more than Mary|Frank likes Betty more than Mary]]
 
* [[Frank likes Betty more than Mary|Frank likes Betty more than Mary]]
 
 
* [[I like you being beaten by me|I like you being beaten by me]]
 
* [[I like you being beaten by me|I like you being beaten by me]]
 
* [[A pound was five dollars|A pound was five dollars]]
 
* [[A pound was five dollars|A pound was five dollars]]
 
 
* [[Letters as themselves|Letters as themselves]]
 
* [[Letters as themselves|Letters as themselves]]
 
* [[Because she hit her head and fell from the boat, she drowned|Because she hit her head and fell from the boat, she drowned]]
 
* [[Because she hit her head and fell from the boat, she drowned|Because she hit her head and fell from the boat, she drowned]]
 
 
* [[Each of us must bring their own toothbrush|Each of us must bring their own toothbrush]]
 
* [[Each of us must bring their own toothbrush|Each of us must bring their own toothbrush]]
 
* [[Quotes without a speaker specified|Quotes without a speaker specified]]
 
* [[Quotes without a speaker specified|Quotes without a speaker specified]]
 
 
* [[thank you very much|thank you very much]] ''as distinct from just thank you''
 
* [[thank you very much|thank you very much]] ''as distinct from just thank you''
 
* [[Can't we all just get along?]]
 
* [[Can't we all just get along?]]
 
 
* [[We can build a church or a school|We can build a church or a school]]
 
* [[We can build a church or a school|We can build a church or a school]]
 
* [[the World|the World]] (as a Capitalized Abstraction)
 
* [[the World|the World]] (as a Capitalized Abstraction)
 
 
* [[Go outside|Go outside]]
 
* [[Go outside|Go outside]]
 
* [[My mother's height|My mother's height]]
 
* [[My mother's height|My mother's height]]
 
 
* [[Guns don't kill people; People do]]
 
* [[Guns don't kill people; People do]]
 
* [[So this is the song of the double-soul, distortedly two in one.|So this is the song of the double-soul, distortedly two in one.]]
 
* [[So this is the song of the double-soul, distortedly two in one.|So this is the song of the double-soul, distortedly two in one.]]
 
 
* [[than|than]]
 
* [[than|than]]
 
* [[Should|Should]] without using nitcu or .ei
 
* [[Should|Should]] without using nitcu or .ei
 
 
* [[yet and already|yet and already]] problem
 
* [[yet and already|yet and already]] problem
 
* [[you get what you pay for|you get what you pay for]]
 
* [[you get what you pay for|you get what you pay for]]
 
 
* [[email copies appreciated, since I read the digest|email copies appreciated, since I read the digest]]
 
* [[email copies appreciated, since I read the digest|email copies appreciated, since I read the digest]]
 
* [[I know how many cows are here|I know how many cows are here]]
 
* [[I know how many cows are here|I know how many cows are here]]
 
 
* [[a lot of water|a lot of water]]
 
* [[a lot of water|a lot of water]]
 
* [[describe human motion|describe human motion]]
 
* [[describe human motion|describe human motion]]
 
 
* [[Again: ''only'']]
 
* [[Again: ''only'']]
 
* [[facing the forest|facing the forest]]
 
* [[facing the forest|facing the forest]]
 
 
* [[I being this individual speaker|I being this individual speaker]]
 
* [[I being this individual speaker|I being this individual speaker]]
 
* "I would have killed the cat" [[conditional|conditional]]
 
* "I would have killed the cat" [[conditional|conditional]]
 
 
* [[free tmobile cell phones|free tmobile cell phones]]
 
* [[free tmobile cell phones|free tmobile cell phones]]
 
* [[iankis he Yankees|iankis he Yankees]]
 
* [[iankis he Yankees|iankis he Yankees]]
 
 
* [[This has not been a busy day|This has not been a busy day]]
 
* [[This has not been a busy day|This has not been a busy day]]
 
* [[It's times like these that...|It's times like these that...]]
 
* [[It's times like these that...|It's times like these that...]]
 
 
* [[One third as much water as potatoes|One third as much water as potatoes]]
 
* [[One third as much water as potatoes|One third as much water as potatoes]]
  
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'''Please''' check for existing attempts (e.g. the 1994 lujvo list, [http://www.lojban.org/files/draft-dictionary/NORALUJV.txt),] before asking here. The list shouldn\'t get too openended. Asterisked entries are in lujvo list. ''(IMHO this list is full of misleadingly'' glijbo ''derivations, which should be carefully looked up on a'' rafsi ''list before using as a plug-in English equivalent.)'' True, but my point still stands...
 
'''Please''' check for existing attempts (e.g. the 1994 lujvo list, [http://www.lojban.org/files/draft-dictionary/NORALUJV.txt),] before asking here. The list shouldn\'t get too openended. Asterisked entries are in lujvo list. ''(IMHO this list is full of misleadingly'' glijbo ''derivations, which should be carefully looked up on a'' rafsi ''list before using as a plug-in English equivalent.)'' True, but my point still stands...
 
 
* [[widdershins|widdershins]]
 
* [[widdershins|widdershins]]
 
* [[dragon|dragon]]
 
* [[dragon|dragon]]
 
 
* [[Rock music|Rock music]]
 
* [[Rock music|Rock music]]
 
* [[Black Hole|Black Hole]]
 
* [[Black Hole|Black Hole]]
 
 
* [[justice|justice]]
 
* [[justice|justice]]
 
* [[game|game]]
 
* [[game|game]]
 
 
* [[mystery|mystery]]
 
* [[mystery|mystery]]
 
* [[intelligent|intelligent]]
 
* [[intelligent|intelligent]]
 
 
* [[phonograph|phonograph]]
 
* [[phonograph|phonograph]]
 
* [[square meter|square meter]]
 
* [[square meter|square meter]]
 
 
* [[logical induction and deduction|logical induction and deduction]]
 
* [[logical induction and deduction|logical induction and deduction]]
 
* [[Weasel|Weasel]]
 
* [[Weasel|Weasel]]
 
 
* [[4-tuple]]
 
* [[4-tuple]]
 
* [[rehair the bow|rehair the bow]]
 
* [[rehair the bow|rehair the bow]]
 
 
* [[call|call]]
 
* [[call|call]]
 
* [[camera obscura|camera obscura]]
 
* [[camera obscura|camera obscura]]
 
 
* [[observative|observative]]
 
* [[observative|observative]]
 
* [[forensic|forensic]]
 
* [[forensic|forensic]]
 
 
* [[infrared and ultraviolet|infrared and ultraviolet]]
 
* [[infrared and ultraviolet|infrared and ultraviolet]]
 
* [[clever|clever]]
 
* [[clever|clever]]
 
 
* [[skami mrilu cmene -mail address|skami mrilu cmene -mail address]]
 
* [[skami mrilu cmene -mail address|skami mrilu cmene -mail address]]
  
 
==== Common sentences ====
 
==== Common sentences ====
 
 
* [[Cheers!|Cheers!]]
 
* [[Cheers!|Cheers!]]
  
 
A [[phrasebook|phrasebook]] is being created.
 
A [[phrasebook|phrasebook]] is being created.
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====Other====
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I want to say that I wrote five [http://satirist.org/lojban/xrejbo/karsna.html owel epigrams], each of which uses only one of Lojban's five basic vowels, and all of which together use all of them. Here's what I came up with. I think it's right, but I'm not sure.
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''.i mi finti mu da poi karsna se cpinyctusku .ije ro da selpau pa ko'a goi le mu lojbo ke sampu karsna .ije lu'o ro da selpau ro ko'a''
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''mi'e [[jezrax|jezrax]]''
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* You want "For each of Lojban's 5 vowels I wrote exactly one epigram that uses only that vowel" = "le mu lojbo -[[Phonetics owel|Phonetics owel]] goi ko'a zo'u mi finti pa -epigram poi ro -[[Phonetics owel|Phonetics owel]] in ke'a is of type ko'a". I don't think it's clear what quantifying over ko'a means, so I find it difficult to say for sure what your Lojban actually means if interpreted literally. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
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* ''.i ki'e .and.'' A big improvement. Running this through the jezrax filter, I get ''.i mu da poi lojbo ke sampu karsna zo'u mi finti pa me'e karsna se cpinyctusku poi ro karsna po'e ke'a du da'' (I'm glad I got to use ''po'e''!)
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* It gets the logical form right. I don't get what the ''me'e'' is doing there, though. Also, if "''ro karsna **du** da''", then each karsna must be a vowel type, not a vowel token, but then does it make sense for there to be a ponse/po'e relation between epigram and vowel type? --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
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* ''me'e'' translates the quotation marks in ''I wrote five "vowel epigrams", each....''
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* The type/token issue is tricky. The type and token are not ''mintu'' or ''du'' (the same), but they are ''dunli'' (equal in value) with an appropriate x3, and the token is ''me'' the type.  In this case ''me'' does not seem to introduce any ambiguity, so the corrected version is ''.i mu da poi lojbo ke sampu karsna zo'u mi finti pa me'e karsna se cpinyctusku poi ro karsna po'e ke'a me da''.
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----
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'''''the bell rings'''''
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le janbe cu janbe?
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da janbe?
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A bell is more than just something that rings.
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'''''it's raining'''''
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ca'a carvi
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* That's good. Often the meaning will be clear from context (you have just looked out the window), and all you need say is ''carvi''. Other times you may need to be clear (you're writing e-mail), and you'd go for ''ca carvi''. There are lots of ways to say anything.
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* ''carvi'' is inspecific as to the type of precipitation (''lo snime .a lo sicpi .a lo bratu .azo'e'').
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What is a good translation of 'Intellectual Property'? Is it as simple as:  ''sidbo ponse''?

Revision as of 10:56, 11 May 2014

This is a page where people can ask whether they've correctly understood, written, or translated some non-trivial bit of Lojban.

Some concepts are harder to express in Lojban than others... These are the fruits of sometimes extremely lengthy discussions, but are by no means to be regarded as the last word, in some cases!

See also What does it mean? for problems going the other way.

See Simple Phrases for a small phrase book.

Grammar

Vocabulary

Please check for existing attempts (e.g. the 1994 lujvo list, [1] before asking here. The list shouldn\'t get too openended. Asterisked entries are in lujvo list. (IMHO this list is full of misleadingly glijbo derivations, which should be carefully looked up on a rafsi list before using as a plug-in English equivalent.) True, but my point still stands...

Common sentences

A phrasebook is being created.

Other

I want to say that I wrote five owel epigrams, each of which uses only one of Lojban's five basic vowels, and all of which together use all of them. Here's what I came up with. I think it's right, but I'm not sure.

.i mi finti mu da poi karsna se cpinyctusku .ije ro da selpau pa ko'a goi le mu lojbo ke sampu karsna .ije lu'o ro da selpau ro ko'a

mi'e jezrax

  • You want "For each of Lojban's 5 vowels I wrote exactly one epigram that uses only that vowel" = "le mu lojbo -Phonetics owel goi ko'a zo'u mi finti pa -epigram poi ro -Phonetics owel in ke'a is of type ko'a". I don't think it's clear what quantifying over ko'a means, so I find it difficult to say for sure what your Lojban actually means if interpreted literally. --And Rosta
  • .i ki'e .and. A big improvement. Running this through the jezrax filter, I get .i mu da poi lojbo ke sampu karsna zo'u mi finti pa me'e karsna se cpinyctusku poi ro karsna po'e ke'a du da (I'm glad I got to use po'e!)
  • It gets the logical form right. I don't get what the me'e is doing there, though. Also, if "ro karsna **du** da", then each karsna must be a vowel type, not a vowel token, but then does it make sense for there to be a ponse/po'e relation between epigram and vowel type? --And Rosta
  • me'e translates the quotation marks in I wrote five "vowel epigrams", each....
  • The type/token issue is tricky. The type and token are not mintu or du (the same), but they are dunli (equal in value) with an appropriate x3, and the token is me the type. In this case me does not seem to introduce any ambiguity, so the corrected version is .i mu da poi lojbo ke sampu karsna zo'u mi finti pa me'e karsna se cpinyctusku poi ro karsna po'e ke'a me da.

the bell rings

le janbe cu janbe?

da janbe?

A bell is more than just something that rings.

it's raining

ca'a carvi

  • That's good. Often the meaning will be clear from context (you have just looked out the window), and all you need say is carvi. Other times you may need to be clear (you're writing e-mail), and you'd go for ca carvi. There are lots of ways to say anything.
  • carvi is inspecific as to the type of precipitation (lo snime .a lo sicpi .a lo bratu .azo'e).

What is a good translation of 'Intellectual Property'? Is it as simple as: sidbo ponse?