https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=BPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita&feed=atom&action=history
BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita - Revision history
2024-03-29T12:05:53Z
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Gleki: Gleki moved page bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita to BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita over a redirect without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "bPFK" to "BPFK"
2014-07-02T12:16:00Z
<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=bPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita (page does not exist)">bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita</a> to <a href="/papri/BPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita" title="BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita">BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita</a> over a redirect without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "bPFK" to "BPFK"</p>
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Gleki
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Conversion script: Conversion script moved page BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita to bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita: Converting page titles to lowercase
2014-06-30T08:11:58Z
<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/BPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita" title="BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita">BPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita</a> to <a href="/index.php?title=bPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita (page does not exist)">bPFK Super-Section: BAI sumtcita</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
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Gleki at 16:45, 4 November 2013
2013-11-04T16:45:20Z
<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:45, 4 November 2013</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[jbocre: bi'ai|bi'ai]] [CAhA] must be: modal aspect: necesary attribute</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''bi'ai'' is equivalent </del>to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''na ka'e na'' (that is ''naku ka'eku naku'' for those who [[jbocre: scope of tenses and NA|value the book's prescriptions above common sense]]). It's proposed for the sake of symmetry. (cf. bilga, [[jbocre: CAhA as sumtcita|CAhA as sumtcita]])</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Placeholder page; just so we can use the Discuss tab </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">discuss BAI</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ianaicai .i ma smuni le si'o da na [[jbocre: ka'enai|ka'enai]] broda''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">in general</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''ka'enai'' does not mean the same as ''ka'e na'', it means ''na ka'e''.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Robin</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''ka'e na'' means that the negative is possible. ''na ka'e'' and ''ka'enai'', on the other hand, negate the possibility. </del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''---> [[jbocre: scope of tenses and NA|scope of tenses and NA]]'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">What is the symmetry?</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bi'ai = na ka'e na = ka'e nai na = not capable of not</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">na bi'ai = bi'ai nai = ka'e na = capable of not</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bi'ai na = na ka'e = ka'e nai = not capable of</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">na bi'ai na = bi'ai nai na = ka'e = capable of</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Why only a cmavo for ''na ka'e na'' and not ''na ca'a na'' etc.?</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The symmetry is with other such constructs in the language. Just as it is much easier to say ''ro broda'' than ''naku su'o broda naku'', it is much easier to say ''bi'aiku'' than ''naku ka'eku naku''. A cmavo is not proposed for ''na ca'a na'', because there does not seem to be any interesting difference between ''na ca'a'' and ''ca'a na''. For the record, it was me who originally proposed this cmavo. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
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Gleki
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=BPFK_Super-Section:_BAI_sumtcita&diff=64020&oldid=prev
Gleki at 16:43, 4 November 2013
2013-11-04T16:43:48Z
<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>[[jbocre: bi'ai|bi'ai]] [CAhA] must be: modal aspect: necesary attribute<br />
<br />
''bi'ai'' is equivalent to ''na ka'e na'' (that is ''naku ka'eku naku'' for those who [[jbocre: scope of tenses and NA|value the book's prescriptions above common sense]]). It's proposed for the sake of symmetry. (cf. bilga, [[jbocre: CAhA as sumtcita|CAhA as sumtcita]])<br />
<br />
''.ianaicai .i ma smuni le si'o da na [[jbocre: ka'enai|ka'enai]] broda''<br />
<br />
''ka'enai'' does not mean the same as ''ka'e na'', it means ''na ka'e''.<br />
<br />
''ka'e na'' means that the negative is possible. ''na ka'e'' and ''ka'enai'', on the other hand, negate the possibility. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]<br />
<br />
'''---> [[jbocre: scope of tenses and NA|scope of tenses and NA]]'''<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
What is the symmetry?<br />
<br />
bi'ai = na ka'e na = ka'e nai na = not capable of not<br />
<br />
na bi'ai = bi'ai nai = ka'e na = capable of not<br />
<br />
bi'ai na = na ka'e = ka'e nai = not capable of<br />
<br />
na bi'ai na = bi'ai nai na = ka'e = capable of<br />
<br />
Why only a cmavo for ''na ka'e na'' and not ''na ca'a na'' etc.?<br />
<br />
--[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]<br />
<br />
The symmetry is with other such constructs in the language. Just as it is much easier to say ''ro broda'' than ''naku su'o broda naku'', it is much easier to say ''bi'aiku'' than ''naku ka'eku naku''. A cmavo is not proposed for ''na ca'a na'', because there does not seem to be any interesting difference between ''na ca'a'' and ''ca'a na''. For the record, it was me who originally proposed this cmavo. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]</div>
Gleki