BPFK Section: Reference Regulators: Difference between revisions

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{{BPFK Section from tiki|BPFK Section: Reference Regulators|16}}
== Proposed Definitions And Examples ==


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=== cmavo: da'o (DAhO) ===


=== bai ===
==== Proposed Definition ====
This cancels standing pro-assigns. Signals a point beyond which all previously assigned pro-sumti and pro-bridi are no longer assigned.


* Since ''bapli'' is defined as ''event x1 forces event x2'', its meaning is not exactly the same as ''force'' in English. I think its meaning is pretty close to ''In every possible world where x1 happens, x2 happens.'' So we can say something like ''bai le nu mi megdo rupnu ponse kei mi gleki''
==== See Also ====


** So you would accept ''bai le nu li re su'i re du li vo kei li pa su'i pa du li re''?  That is a strange philosophy of mathematics indeed!  [[jbocre: John Cowan|John Cowan]] think it better to keep ''bapli'' and ''bai'' for actual compulsion.  But then I never thought possible worlds were very perspicuous anyway -- not every describable world is a ''possible'' world.
==== Proposed Keywords ====
*** I would use ''ni'i'' in the above sentence, but I don't have a problem with ''bai'', either. Your problem stems from translating ''bai'' back into English as ''forced by''. ''force'' is generally not the best translation for ''bai''. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]
* cancel pro- assignment


** The english ''force'' is better approximated by lojban ''gasnu''. If there is a ''gasnu'' modal, we should use that as bai is now used. ''(It's "gau", and it's probably underused.)'' I agree with bai as if, but want to be understood - this is loj''ban'' after all - so I will advocate bai but continue to use ''ganai, gi'' until Adam and I convince you all (.a'o'esai.ianai.ue) - mi'e. [[jbocre: .kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]
==== Usage Examples ====
''i le te cuxna cu se cmima ro le jivna e pa xanri jivna no'u la nonjinga zi'e poi sinxa lesi'o cuxna node i da'o curmi lenu da e de dunli xymoi lo porsi kei poi skicu ledu'u dunynei da de itu'e da'o go da poi cuxna cu djica lenu de poi jivna na jinga gi ei le cuxste po da skicu ledu'u da zmanei la nonjinga de'' <br>
The ballot contains all the candidates, plus a hypothetical candidate "Nobody". Voters are allowed to give equal ranks to candidates if they have no preference between them.
([http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Multiple-winner+Condorcet Multiple-winner Condorcet])
 
==== Issues ====
Out of a [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/e3651c40777130f7/fda44d7df1ebb4e7?lnk=gst&q=pleasures+of+goi#fda44d7df1ebb4e7 discussion] of {goi} it seems to be a popular notion to change the definition of da'o. The redefinition is detailed [http://www.lojban.org/tiki//goi%27a here]. In summary <br>
1) da'o is moved to selma'o UI. DAhO is almost UI anyway. <br>
2) The variable da'o is attached to has its assignment cleared. It is far more common to want to clear one assignment than to clear all of them. <br>
3) da'onai means this: the variable da'onai is attached to retains its assignment and all other variables are cleared. <br>
4) da'oda'o means that all variables have their assignments cleared.
 
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=== cmavo: ra'o (DAhO) ===
 
==== Proposed Definition ====
This flags a GOhA that all the pro-assignments in the current bridi should be re-evaluated in the speaker's current context.
 
==== See Also ====
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* pro-assigns update
 
==== Usage Examples ====
A: ''mi xagji lo rectu gi'e taske lo ckafi'' <br>
B: ''.i .ie go'i ra'o je'u'' <br>
A: - I am hungry for meat and thirsty for coffee. <br>
B: - Yes, so am I, indeed. <br>
<br>
A: ''.i mi na birti lo su'u mi kakne lo nu mi xamgu ke fonxa cusku bau la lojban'' <br>
B: ''mi go'i'' <br>
B: ''ra'o'' <br>
A: I am not sure I am able to speak Lojban well on the phone. <br>
B: I am not sure either. <br>
B: ... that ''I'' will be able to speak Lojban well on the phone.
 
==== Issues ====
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/tree/browse_frm/month/2008-09/b49575848e6e6200?rnum=81&_done=%2Fgroup%2Flojban%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F2008-09%3F#doc_da79ad38cc507b68 What does it mean when not used with go'i?]
 
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=== cmavo: soi (SOI) ===
 
==== Proposed Definition ====
This discursive indicates reciprocal relationship between sumti in this bridi. It corresponds to vice-versa in English. If followed by two sumti, it indicates that those two sumti may be swapped in the bridi and the bridi will remain true. If only followed by one sumti, the second sumti is inferred the be the sumti immediately before soi. Its ellidible terminator is {se'u}.
 
==== See Also ====
 
==== Proposed Keywords ====
* reciprocal
* vice-versa
 
==== Usage Examples ====
''.i mi tavla do soi vo'a'' <br>
I talk to you, and vice versa. <br>
We talk to each other.
 
;''mi ze'u na'e tavla do soi vo'a'': We haven't talked to each other in a long time (vensa - IRC on 28 Jan 2010 11:25:30)
 
==== Issues ====
* Chapter *20*, of all places, in the CLL says that {mi prami do soi mi} is legal, but Chapter 7 doesn't really say that, quite.
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/4aa2c2846cfa0a09 What the hell does this SOI mean?]
There has been discussion about whether soi changes the referral distance of vo'V. Not sure if it should go here though
* [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg20920.html] - Xod: vo'a was usually intended as long-distance when alone, and usually short-distance when used with soi.
* [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg20936.html] - Nick Nicholas: So vo'a *may* end in practice being defined as [...] short-distance when context favours that reading -- for instance, soi vo'a.
* [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg20057.html] - And Rosta translates a Lojban sentence in a way that implies that he things vo'a is long-distance, regardless of soi.
* [http://www.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg20880.html] - Nick Nicholas' position on vo'a: long-distance by default, can be forced short-distance in _syntactic_ contexts, ie. after soi.
 
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== Notes ==
There has been some discussion on how long da-series cmavo stay bound, ie. whether or not they are always canceled by sentence boundaries not joined by connectives. This, however, has no bearing on ''da'o'', which cancels unconditionally.
== Impact ==
There is a proposal to change {da'o} documented here.
 
==Proposals ==
There is a proposal by [[selpa'i]] to repurpose {soi} into something more useful. See [http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=New_soi this page] for a description of the change.

Revision as of 23:01, 9 February 2015

This page is imported from version 16 of the page BPFK Section: Reference Regulators from the lojban Tiki.

Proposed Definitions And Examples

cmavo: da'o (DAhO)

Proposed Definition

This cancels standing pro-assigns. Signals a point beyond which all previously assigned pro-sumti and pro-bridi are no longer assigned.

See Also

Proposed Keywords

  • cancel pro- assignment

Usage Examples

i le te cuxna cu se cmima ro le jivna e pa xanri jivna no'u la nonjinga zi'e poi sinxa lesi'o cuxna node i da'o curmi lenu da e de dunli xymoi lo porsi kei poi skicu ledu'u dunynei da de itu'e da'o go da poi cuxna cu djica lenu de poi jivna na jinga gi ei le cuxste po da skicu ledu'u da zmanei la nonjinga de
The ballot contains all the candidates, plus a hypothetical candidate "Nobody". Voters are allowed to give equal ranks to candidates if they have no preference between them. (Multiple-winner Condorcet)

Issues

Out of a discussion of {goi} it seems to be a popular notion to change the definition of da'o. The redefinition is detailed here. In summary
1) da'o is moved to selma'o UI. DAhO is almost UI anyway.
2) The variable da'o is attached to has its assignment cleared. It is far more common to want to clear one assignment than to clear all of them.
3) da'onai means this: the variable da'onai is attached to retains its assignment and all other variables are cleared.
4) da'oda'o means that all variables have their assignments cleared.



cmavo: ra'o (DAhO)

Proposed Definition

This flags a GOhA that all the pro-assignments in the current bridi should be re-evaluated in the speaker's current context.

See Also

Proposed Keywords

  • pro-assigns update

Usage Examples

A: mi xagji lo rectu gi'e taske lo ckafi
B: .i .ie go'i ra'o je'u
A: - I am hungry for meat and thirsty for coffee.
B: - Yes, so am I, indeed.

A: .i mi na birti lo su'u mi kakne lo nu mi xamgu ke fonxa cusku bau la lojban
B: mi go'i
B: ra'o
A: I am not sure I am able to speak Lojban well on the phone.
B: I am not sure either.
B: ... that I will be able to speak Lojban well on the phone.

Issues



cmavo: soi (SOI)

Proposed Definition

This discursive indicates reciprocal relationship between sumti in this bridi. It corresponds to vice-versa in English. If followed by two sumti, it indicates that those two sumti may be swapped in the bridi and the bridi will remain true. If only followed by one sumti, the second sumti is inferred the be the sumti immediately before soi. Its ellidible terminator is {se'u}.

See Also

Proposed Keywords

  • reciprocal
  • vice-versa

Usage Examples

.i mi tavla do soi vo'a
I talk to you, and vice versa.
We talk to each other.

mi ze'u na'e tavla do soi vo'a
We haven't talked to each other in a long time (vensa - IRC on 28 Jan 2010 11:25:30)

Issues

There has been discussion about whether soi changes the referral distance of vo'V. Not sure if it should go here though

  • [1] - Xod: vo'a was usually intended as long-distance when alone, and usually short-distance when used with soi.
  • [2] - Nick Nicholas: So vo'a *may* end in practice being defined as [...] short-distance when context favours that reading -- for instance, soi vo'a.
  • [3] - And Rosta translates a Lojban sentence in a way that implies that he things vo'a is long-distance, regardless of soi.
  • [4] - Nick Nicholas' position on vo'a: long-distance by default, can be forced short-distance in _syntactic_ contexts, ie. after soi.


Notes

There has been some discussion on how long da-series cmavo stay bound, ie. whether or not they are always canceled by sentence boundaries not joined by connectives. This, however, has no bearing on da'o, which cancels unconditionally.

Impact

There is a proposal to change {da'o} documented here.

Proposals

There is a proposal by selpa'i to repurpose {soi} into something more useful. See this page for a description of the change.

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