View source for thinking about Thinking in Lojban


* First, what the gismu list says:

'''cilre''' x1 learns x2 (du'u) about subject x3 from source x4 (obj./event) by

method x5 (event/process)

'''djuno''' x1 knows fact(s) x2 (du'u) about subject x3 by epistemology x4 (words

usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place; know how to - implying

knowledge of method but not necessarily having the ability to practice (= tadjyju'o]

(cf. know/familiar with: se slabu, na'e cnino, na'e fange; cmavo list du'o, cilre,

certu, facki, jijnu, jimpe, senpi, smadi, kakne, birti, mipri, morji, saske, viska)

'''jimpe''' x1 understands/comprehends fact/truth x2 (du'u) about subject x3; x1

understands (fi) x3 (cf. djuno, jijnu, morna, smuni, saske, viska)

'''jinvi''' x1 thinks/opines x2 (opinion) (du'u) is true about subject/issue x3 on

grounds x4 (words usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place) (cf. cmavo list

pe'i, ciksi, jijnu, nabmi, pensi, senpi, sidbo, birti, pinka)

'''krici'''  x1 believes (without evidence/proof) belief/creed x2 (du'u) is true/assumed

about subject x3 ("without evidence" refers to objective external evidence; also gives

credence, has conviction); (cf. censa, cevni, lijda, makfa, malsi, senpi, birti)

'''morji''' x1 remembers/recalls/recollects fact(s)/memory x2 (du'u) about subject x3

(cf. cmavo list ba'anai, menli, pensi, sanji, djuno, notci)

'''pensi''' x1 thinks/considers/cogitates/reasons/is pensive about/reflects upon subject/

concept x2 (also: x1 is thoughtful (one sense); x2 is mental (one sense)/intellectual

(one sense) (= selpei]; (cf. cmavo list pe'i, jijnu, menli, morji, sidbo, jinvi, se nabmi,

minra, lanli, besna, saske, skami)

'''sanji''' x1 is conscious/aware of x2 (object/abstract); x1 discerns/recognizes x2 (object/

abstract) (also: x1 knows (of) x2 (one sense); awareness implies some amount of mental

processing above and beyond mere sensory detection, and may also be applied to mental

relationships that are not detected by the senses); (cf. menli, morji, ganse, sipna, cikna)

'''sidbo''' x1 (idea abstract) is an idea/concept/thought about x2 (object/abstract) by thinker

x3 (also (adjective:) x1 is ideal/ideational); (cf. ciksi, jijnu, mucti, jinvi, nabmi, pensi,

xanri, cmavo list si'o)

'''slabu'''  x1 is old/familiar/well-known to observer x2 in feature x3 (ka) by standard x4 (This

can cover both meanings of old.  Old in years, i.e. age, can be conveyed through x2 = theworld,

life, existence (= loi nu zasti); in usage this has been a common default for ellipsis.  However

slabu is not the opposite of 'young' (= nalci'o, tolci'o), but the opposite of 'new' (= tolni'o);

also ancient (= tcesau), age (= nilsau); x2 is used to x1 (= selsau for reordered places);

historic/historical (= cirsau, cirselcedra; also vaipru]; (cf. clani, citno, cnino, se djuno; not

the opposite of citno, djuno)

'''smuni''' x1 is a meaning/interpretation of x2 recognized/seen/accepted by x3 (referential meaning

(=selsni, snismu)]; (cf. jimpe, sinxa, valsi, tanru, gismu, lujvo, cmavo, jufra)

'''sruma''' x1 assumes/supposes that x2 (du'u) is true about subject x3; (epistemology) (words usable for

epistemology typically have a du'u place); (cf. smadi, birti)

'''xanri''' x1 (concept) exists in the imagination of/is imagined by/is imaginary to x2 (also (adjective:)

x1 is mental (one sense), x1 is unreal (one sense); in spite of the synonym, note that x2 is imaginary

does not imply that it doesn't exist in the real world; the definition is crafted so that one can talk

about imaginary things without claiming that they thereby really exist); (cf. fatci, senva, sucta, zasti,

cfika, dacti, menli, sidbo)

*I don't have time right now to go back & locate in the archives some of my earlier attempts to make distinctions with this set. (To be continued) For now, i am going to meditate on the differences, if any between '''ve jinvi''' & '''ve djuno'''.
** ''lo si'o veljinvi cu du lo si'o veldjuno'' (ku'i zo djuno zo jinvi cu frica ma) ''frica tu'a le tergi'u poi na'ebo le 4moi''

** One idea: ''ve jinvi'' is ''su'o broda'' & ''ve djuno'' is ''so'i broda'' (or ''pirau broda''?) . Or is it ''le broda'' & ''lo broda''? I.e. we opine for reasons, which we can furnish. But what we know, we can't always express fully.

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fu'eca'eko'agoi lo'e mibypre cu cilre

.i ko'a morji le se cilre

.i ko'a sanji

.i ko'a morji fi le se sanji

.i ko'a se xanri

.i ko'a se slabu le xanri

.i ko'a se ctuca

.i ko'a krici le te ctuca

.i ko'a lifri je pensi

.i ko'a jimpe le se lifri je se pensi

.i ko'a djuno fo le munje be le se jimpe be ko'a .a le lanzu be ko'afu'o