View source for level 0 Booklet Errata Chapter 2

=== Chapter 2 Errata ===

=== Completed ===
** General
*** Orthography is not a seperate section; this is moderately jarring. -Robin
**** Eccentricity of HTML Docbook stylesheet that I currently don't feel like customising. :-)
*** "naltcila velski be le lojbo gerna sidbo"/"Overview of Lojban Grammar" -- While those translate each other, they are both clearly wrong, as the chapter contains sections on Orthography, Phonology, Morphology and Semantics.  -Robin
**** These are all things a linguist would expect to find in a reference grammar of a language (because linguists have expanded their definition of 'grammar'); unless I hear a counterproposal, it stays as is.
** Phonology
*** At the end of the Voiced section are two dashes on a line, and the end of Unvoiced there are two dashes on seperate lines.  I don't know what either are doing there.  -Robin
**** Stylesheet redundancy. Fixed.
*** Looking at Chapter 2 with "beginner's mind" I realized that even for a North American the phonetic respellings are terrible.  Here is what I am proposing be used instead:
**** for "purmo" use "POOR,mo"
**** for "farlu" use "FAHR,loo"
**** for "temci" use "TEM,shee"
**** for "sonci" use "SONE,shee"
**** (leave "kinli" as "KEEN,lee")
**** for "botpi" use "BOAT,pee" (yes, it's scatological)
**** for "voksa" use "VOAK,sah"
**** for "dansu" use "DAHN,soo"
**** (leave "zinki" as "ZEEN,kee")
**** for "gunse" use "GOON,seh"
**** for "lalxu" use "LAHL,khoo"
**** (leave "xriso" as "KHREE,so")
**** (leave "creka" as "SHREH,kah")
**** (leave "glico" as "GLEE,sho")
**** (leave "lojban" as "LOZH,bahn")
**** (leave "mutce" as "MU,cheh"
==== Lost ====
** Grammar, 2nd paragraph --  s/ambuguity/ambiguity/  -ScottW
==== This is from a very old backup. ====
* Chapter 2
** General
*** Orthography is not a seperate section; this is moderately jarring. -Robin
**** Eccentricity of HTML Docbook stylesheet that I currently don't feel like customising. :-)
*** "naltcila velski be le lojbo gerna sidbo"/"Overview of Lojban Grammar" -- While those translate each other, they are both clearly wrong, as the chapter contains sections on Orthography, Phonology, Morphology and Semantics.  -Robin
**** These are all things a linguist would expect to find in a reference grammar of a language (because linguists have expanded their definition of 'grammar'); unless I hear a counterproposal, it stays as is.
** Phonology
*** At the end of the Voiced section are two dashes on a line, and the end of Unvoiced there are two dashes on seperate lines.  I don't know what either are doing there.  -Robin
**** Stylesheet redundancy. Fixed.
*** The pronouncation guides for temci and zinki both take up two lines when I look at them.  -Robin
**** Allocated more width.
***''Stress and pause are not mandatory in Lojban, except for word separation according to the rules above. '' It should be something like ''It is not mandatory to mark stress and pause in writing...'', since stress and pause most definitely are mandatory in Lojban. -- Adam
***"(A "." is written after the name to mark this, thus distinguishing names from other words without capitalization.)" -- "without *using* capitalization".  -Robin
***Rising Dipthong ei. From what I can tell from 'the book', the ei dipthong does not alter the pronunciation of "p", yet in this example it seems to be saying that it should be pronounced as "b". -emf
****No this is just a problem with Robin.tr wanting to use "multicultural stuff" and getting too involved in the Chinese language. Basically, Chinese also has what they would call a /b/ and a /p/, but we hear both as being /p/ (with a bit of practice you don't, but anyway). So we call it Taipei, but to the Chinese it should be Taibei
**** Stays put because it makes people familiar with Pinyin feel clever. :-)
** Morphology
***"cmene are not permitted to have the words la, lai, or doi embedded in them, because they are always preceded by one of these words or by a pause. With one of these words embedded, the cmene might break up into valid Lojban words followed by a shorter, incorrect cmene. There are similar alternatives to these that can be used in Lojbanization, such as ly, lei, and do'i, "  -- Both la, and ly, have an unnecessary amount of space after them, and the comma is a different font than the others around it.  -Robin
**** Alternation of normal and monospaced; fixed.
***''KAtr,in.   Catherine'' It is not necessary to mark the stress here. --xorxes
**** Took me a while to realise, but yes, that is so: r, doesn't count as a penultimate syllable for stress, though it still is being indicated as syllabic.
***"lujvo compounds of gismu, with meanings defined from their components; e.g. lobypli" -- I'd say something like "gismu, or their abbreviations," or something.  -Robin
***''djarspageti'' is a bad example of fu'ivla. It is not a Type 3 (it should be ''cidjrspageti'') and it is a lousy Type 4 (plain ''spageti'' is orders of magnitude better). --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
**** Notwithstanding that this is the canonical example of a fu'ivla :-) , and that there is good heuristic reason to retain prefixes in Type 4, I agree that it is confusing to do so, and make this cidjrspageti
***" in order to fit within the brivla requirements; e.g. djarspageti ('spaghetti')" -- add "(it's not nearly as hard to say as it looks)".  zo'o  -Robin
**** Becomes all the more poignant if I go with Type 3! Done, with exclamation point added.
***" to ensure that the resulting word doesn't fall apart." -- A word 'falling apart' makes little sense outside of lojban.  Perhaps s/fall apart/can be understood to be two other words/.  -Robin
****is not construed as two separate words
***"All cmavo display one of the following letter patterns" -- What about the CV'VV patterns used in experimental cmavo and such?  Just ignoring those for purposes of something this basic?  -Robin
**** I say yes, don't mention it. More dirty laundry we needn't be airing this early on.
**Semantics
***"brivla are neither nouns, verbs, adjectives, nor adverb" -- I thought nor was required between each element of a neither/nor list?  -Robin
**** not... or. I was not aware of such a rule, but the syntax did look unduly odd.
** Grammar
***"The selma'o names are capitalized in English discussion of Lojban: CU, KOhA," -- Some explanation of the whole h == '-capitalized wierdness should probably be given.   -Robin
**** The apostrophe is converted to <wordasword>h</wordasword> in such usage; this is for compatibility with computer grammar parses.
***** "computer grammar parse*r*s."  -Robin
***"Lojbanists will, however, be able to speak or write unambiguously with care," -- s/with care/if they are careful/.  "with care" seems to say that they can pour their hearts into their unambiguous writings.  Or maybe I'm being too nitpicky.  8)  -Robin
***"has means of quickly questioning any specific one of them (or all of them), and resolving the ambiguity." -- has ''a'' means, I think.  -Robin
***"These include abstraction to states, events, activities, properties, amounts, etc."  -- I had to think for a while to actually understand that sentence.  How about, "These include ways to treat a selbri as a state, an event..."  -Robin
**** a single selbri
***"most questions are asked by placing a question word in place of the value to be filled in by whoever answers." -- "whomever".  -Robin
**** .i go'i ni'i leda'i nu mi ca'o morsi . by the person answering
***** Umm, what?  -Robin
***** "whomever" over my dead body. :-) Converted to "by the person answering". -- n
***** So what's your beef with whomever?  (and what was converted to that?) -Robin
***** It's regarded as pedantic by many, although apparently more so in the Commonwealth than in the States. (More importantly, it's regarded so by John and me :-) "to be filled in by whomever answers" > "to be filled in  by the person answering".
***" Lojban also provides question words that can replace many other grammatical functions." -- "that can replace" seems odd.  "that can ask for a value for", maybe?  -Robin
**** Lojban also provides question words that can request a value filling many other grammatical functions.
***"and you still may not be certain of correct understanding." -- "of having a correct understanding."  -Robin
***zo'osai "or '? ?2x3+x2?3x+5 dx evaluated over the interval of ?5 to +5 bottles of water'." -- OK, it was *NOT* as easy to come up with "ri'o ni'u re xy. te'a ci su'i xy. te'a re su'i mu ku'e xy. ku'e mo'e ni'u mu djacu botpi te'u ga'o bi'o ga'o mo'e mu djacu botpi" as "li ni'e bakni".  8)  -Robin
**** Inserted as a note. Because we should be putting our money where our mouth is.
*****  Bwahahahaha!  That's cool.  Did you check it, though?  I'm not certain of its correctness.  And it should probably have a li in front.  -Robin
***** jbofi'e says it's OK. For as much as I could be bothered checking :-) , so do I.
***** Oh, I know it *parses*.  I'm just not sure it means what it is supposed to.  But good enough.  -Robin