https://mw.lojban.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Maik&feedformat=atomLojban - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T14:30:05ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=UserWiki:Maik&diff=123700UserWiki:Maik2020-03-14T17:42:40Z<p>Maik: import user wiki</p>
<hr />
<div>fi'i vitke mi'e .maik. <br />
<br />
.i mi cu su'a nelci lo bauske jo'u lo logji jo'u lo runbau jo'u uenaidai lo logji runbau<br />
<br />
.i mi pagbu la [[LFK|lojbo fuzykamni]] gi'e [[catni vlacku selgu'a]] terbe'e<br />
<br />
mu'o</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123671CloudFare Test2020-02-23T02:17:30Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...<br />
<br />
=== ninth edit ===<br />
<br />
one more test for good measure.<br />
<br />
SAVING...<br />
<br />
== test 4 ==<br />
<br />
=== tenth edit ===<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
rlpowellAPP 9:07 PM<br />
Hey all. I just made a change to the caching behaviour of the main lojban.org site; please try it out.<br />
9:07<br />
You should be able to log in and edit and see your edits right away, but when you log out your edits will be invisible for uh probably about 30 minutes.<br />
9:07<br />
Basically, logged in people bypass the cache.<br />
9:07<br />
Is the goal.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Well let's see...<br />
<br />
=== eleventh edit ===<br />
<br />
Changes from tenth edit immediately visible (i.e. success)<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== twelfth edit ===<br />
<br />
11th edit good.<br />
<br />
By the way I forgot to mention I moved this page to<br />
<br />
https://mw-live.lojban.org/papri/CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
That should dodge the "LFK" and "bypasscache" rules.<br />
<br />
Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123670CloudFare Test2020-02-23T02:15:11Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...<br />
<br />
=== ninth edit ===<br />
<br />
one more test for good measure.<br />
<br />
SAVING...<br />
<br />
== test 4 ==<br />
<br />
=== tenth edit ===<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
rlpowellAPP 9:07 PM<br />
Hey all. I just made a change to the caching behaviour of the main lojban.org site; please try it out.<br />
9:07<br />
You should be able to log in and edit and see your edits right away, but when you log out your edits will be invisible for uh probably about 30 minutes.<br />
9:07<br />
Basically, logged in people bypass the cache.<br />
9:07<br />
Is the goal.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Well let's see...<br />
<br />
=== eleventh edit ===<br />
<br />
Changes from tenth edit immediately visible (i.e. success)<br />
<br />
Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123669CloudFare Test2020-02-23T02:13:49Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...<br />
<br />
=== ninth edit ===<br />
<br />
one more test for good measure.<br />
<br />
SAVING...<br />
<br />
== test 4 ==<br />
<br />
=== tenth edit ===<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
rlpowellAPP 9:07 PM<br />
Hey all. I just made a change to the caching behaviour of the main lojban.org site; please try it out.<br />
9:07<br />
You should be able to log in and edit and see your edits right away, but when you log out your edits will be invisible for uh probably about 30 minutes.<br />
9:07<br />
Basically, logged in people bypass the cache.<br />
9:07<br />
Is the goal.<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
Well let's see...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123668Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-23T02:12:14Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page Talk:LFK CloudFare Test to Talk:CloudFare Test without leaving a redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Third edit was displayed after third save. Talk pages seem okay. This will help.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123667CloudFare Test2020-02-23T02:12:13Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page LFK CloudFare Test to CloudFare Test without leaving a redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...<br />
<br />
=== ninth edit ===<br />
<br />
one more test for good measure.<br />
<br />
SAVING...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK&diff=123658LFK2020-02-14T19:46:26Z<p>Maik: /* Meeting Place */ clarifying "Framateam"</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''LFK''' (a.k.a. "the '''Lojban Committee'''"; Lojban: "'''la lojbo fuzykamni'''" or "'''lyfy'''") is a standing committee of the [[LLG]]. It succeeds the [[BPFK]] and is charged with improving formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating under-documented language features, responding to issues that arise in usage, and maintaining language documentation and instructional materials. Regarding these ends, the LFK is also charged with soliciting and evaluating feedback from members of the Lojban community, encouraging volunteer activity, and generally promoting the growth of the language community.<br />
<br />
== Meeting Place ==<br />
<br />
The LFK currently holds its general discussions in the [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk #LFK channel on the LLG's "Lojban" chat server at Framateam.org]. Meeting place changes, if any, will be announced on this page and elsewhere.<br />
<br />
The LFK welcomes to its meeting places everyone who would like to observe the discussion, share ideas or otherwise participate.<br />
<br />
=== Joining Framateam ===<br />
<br />
In order to join the discussion at Framateam (often called "Mattermost", which actually is the name of the software), you'll first need to [https://framateam.org/signup_email sign up at Framateam.org] by filling out the form and confirming your email address. The interface is in French, but once you get inside, you can change the interface language to English (or Japanese, Spanish, or Portuguese). Here are a few translations to get you through the sign-up part:<br />
<br />
* Quelle est votre adresse e-mail ? = What's your email address?<br />
* Spécifiez votre nom d'utilisateur = Specify your username.<br />
* Spécifiez votre mot de passe = Specify your password.<br />
* Créer un compte = Create an account.<br />
<br />
After you sign up, click [https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw this invite link in order to join the LLG's "team"] (i.e. chat server).<br />
<br />
After you click the invite link, click [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk this link to find us in the #LFK channel]. (You will be able to join many other channels as well.)<br />
<br />
If you get stuck for any reason, please leave a comment on the discussion page and we will try to help.<br />
<br />
== Charter ==<br />
<br />
The LFK came into existence during the 2018 LLG Members' Meeting with the adoption of the [[LFK Charter]].<br />
<br />
== Members ==<br />
<br />
The initial members of the LFK, joining during the 2019 LLG Members' Meeting, were, in order, Phma, BookOfPortals, Karis, Ilmen, and Maik.<br />
<br />
The current members are the same:<br />
<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]] (a.k.a. BookOfPortals)<br />
* [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]<br />
* [[User:Karis|Karis]]<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]<br />
* [[User:Pier.abat |Phma]]<br />
<br />
== Chairperson ==<br />
<br />
The LFK selected Phma to be the first chairperson in January of 2020. He is the current chairperson.<br />
<br />
== Procedures ==<br />
<br />
The LFK adopted its standard [[LFK Procedures|Procedures]], which are intended to make consensus rather than voting the preferred method of making decisions, in February of 2020.<br />
<br />
== Records ==<br />
<br />
The LFK maintains a [[LFK Action Log|log of the actions]] that it has formally decided to take through its standard procedures. It also maintains an [[LFK News Archive|archive of news and other communications]].<br />
<br />
== Projects ==<br />
<br />
The LFK has opted to organize its activity in the form of official LFK projects. Each project will have a project coordinator whose role is to organize the activity and keep the project moving toward completion. <br />
<br />
=== Official Lojban Dictionary ===<br />
<br />
The [[LFK Dictionary Project|Official Lojban Dictionary Project]] is a LFK project aimed at creating a new Wiki-based, collaboratively edited dictionary for Lojban intended to contain practical, good-quality definitions for Lojban's core vocabulary. The dictionary's core data will be stored and structured in such a way as to facilitate the exporting of a dictionary entry list printable in a traditional book form.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK&diff=123657LFK2020-02-14T19:36:54Z<p>Maik: /* Joining Mattermost */ neaten links</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''LFK''' (a.k.a. "the '''Lojban Committee'''"; Lojban: "'''la lojbo fuzykamni'''" or "'''lyfy'''") is a standing committee of the [[LLG]]. It succeeds the [[BPFK]] and is charged with improving formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating under-documented language features, responding to issues that arise in usage, and maintaining language documentation and instructional materials. Regarding these ends, the LFK is also charged with soliciting and evaluating feedback from members of the Lojban community, encouraging volunteer activity, and generally promoting the growth of the language community.<br />
<br />
== Meeting Place ==<br />
<br />
The LFK currently holds its general discussions in the [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk #LFK channel on the LLG's "Lojban" server at Framateam.org]. Meeting place changes, if any, will be announced on this page and elsewhere.<br />
<br />
The LFK welcomes to its meeting places everyone who would like to observe the discussion, share ideas or otherwise participate.<br />
<br />
=== Joining Mattermost ===<br />
<br />
In order to join the discussion at Mattermost, you'll first need to [https://framateam.org/signup_email sign up at Framateam.org] by filling out the form and confirming your email address. The interface is in French, but once you get inside, you can change the interface language to English (or Japanese, Spanish, or Portuguese). Here are a few translations to get you through the sign-up part:<br />
<br />
* Quelle est votre adresse e-mail ? = What's your email address?<br />
* Spécifiez votre nom d'utilisateur = Specify your username.<br />
* Spécifiez votre mot de passe = Specify your password.<br />
* Créer un compte = Create an account.<br />
<br />
After you sign up, click [https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw this invite link in order to join the LLG's "team"] (i.e. chat server).<br />
<br />
After you click the invite link, click [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk this link to find us in the #LFK channel]. (You will be able to join many other channels as well.)<br />
<br />
If you get stuck for any reason, please leave a comment on the discussion page and we will try to help.<br />
<br />
== Charter ==<br />
<br />
The LFK came into existence during the 2018 LLG Members' Meeting with the adoption of the [[LFK Charter]].<br />
<br />
== Members ==<br />
<br />
The initial members of the LFK, joining during the 2019 LLG Members' Meeting, were, in order, Phma, BookOfPortals, Karis, Ilmen, and Maik.<br />
<br />
The current members are the same:<br />
<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]] (a.k.a. BookOfPortals)<br />
* [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]<br />
* [[User:Karis|Karis]]<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]<br />
* [[User:Pier.abat |Phma]]<br />
<br />
== Chairperson ==<br />
<br />
The LFK selected Phma to be the first chairperson in January of 2020. He is the current chairperson.<br />
<br />
== Procedures ==<br />
<br />
The LFK adopted its standard [[LFK Procedures|Procedures]], which are intended to make consensus rather than voting the preferred method of making decisions, in February of 2020.<br />
<br />
== Records ==<br />
<br />
The LFK maintains a [[LFK Action Log|log of the actions]] that it has formally decided to take through its standard procedures. It also maintains an [[LFK News Archive|archive of news and other communications]].<br />
<br />
== Projects ==<br />
<br />
The LFK has opted to organize its activity in the form of official LFK projects. Each project will have a project coordinator whose role is to organize the activity and keep the project moving toward completion. <br />
<br />
=== Official Lojban Dictionary ===<br />
<br />
The [[LFK Dictionary Project|Official Lojban Dictionary Project]] is a LFK project aimed at creating a new Wiki-based, collaboratively edited dictionary for Lojban intended to contain practical, good-quality definitions for Lojban's core vocabulary. The dictionary's core data will be stored and structured in such a way as to facilitate the exporting of a dictionary entry list printable in a traditional book form.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK&diff=123656LFK2020-02-14T19:28:32Z<p>Maik: /* Meeting Place */ - Joining Mattermost</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''LFK''' (a.k.a. "the '''Lojban Committee'''"; Lojban: "'''la lojbo fuzykamni'''" or "'''lyfy'''") is a standing committee of the [[LLG]]. It succeeds the [[BPFK]] and is charged with improving formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating under-documented language features, responding to issues that arise in usage, and maintaining language documentation and instructional materials. Regarding these ends, the LFK is also charged with soliciting and evaluating feedback from members of the Lojban community, encouraging volunteer activity, and generally promoting the growth of the language community.<br />
<br />
== Meeting Place ==<br />
<br />
The LFK currently holds its general discussions in the [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk #LFK channel on the LLG's "Lojban" server at Framateam.org]. Meeting place changes, if any, will be announced on this page and elsewhere.<br />
<br />
The LFK welcomes to its meeting places everyone who would like to observe the discussion, share ideas or otherwise participate.<br />
<br />
=== Joining Mattermost ===<br />
<br />
In order to join the discussion at Mattermost, you'll need to first sign up at Framateam.org ( https://framateam.org/signup_email ). The interface is in French, but once you get inside, you can change the interface language to English (or Japanese, Spanish, or Portuguese). Here are a few translations to get you through the sign-up part:<br />
<br />
* Quelle est votre adresse e-mail ? = What's your email address?<br />
* Spécifiez votre nom d'utilisateur = Specify your username.<br />
* Spécifiez votre mot de passe = Specify your password.<br />
* Créer un compte = Create an account.<br />
<br />
After you sign up, click the invite link ( https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw ) in order to join the LLG's "team".<br />
<br />
After you click the invite link, click [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk this link to find us on the #LFK channel]. (You will be able to join many other channels as well.)<br />
<br />
If you get stuck for any reason, please leave a comment on the discussion page and we will try to help.<br />
<br />
== Charter ==<br />
<br />
The LFK came into existence during the 2018 LLG Members' Meeting with the adoption of the [[LFK Charter]].<br />
<br />
== Members ==<br />
<br />
The initial members of the LFK, joining during the 2019 LLG Members' Meeting, were, in order, Phma, BookOfPortals, Karis, Ilmen, and Maik.<br />
<br />
The current members are the same:<br />
<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]] (a.k.a. BookOfPortals)<br />
* [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]<br />
* [[User:Karis|Karis]]<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]<br />
* [[User:Pier.abat |Phma]]<br />
<br />
== Chairperson ==<br />
<br />
The LFK selected Phma to be the first chairperson in January of 2020. He is the current chairperson.<br />
<br />
== Procedures ==<br />
<br />
The LFK adopted its standard [[LFK Procedures|Procedures]], which are intended to make consensus rather than voting the preferred method of making decisions, in February of 2020.<br />
<br />
== Records ==<br />
<br />
The LFK maintains a [[LFK Action Log|log of the actions]] that it has formally decided to take through its standard procedures. It also maintains an [[LFK News Archive|archive of news and other communications]].<br />
<br />
== Projects ==<br />
<br />
The LFK has opted to organize its activity in the form of official LFK projects. Each project will have a project coordinator whose role is to organize the activity and keep the project moving toward completion. <br />
<br />
=== Official Lojban Dictionary ===<br />
<br />
The [[LFK Dictionary Project|Official Lojban Dictionary Project]] is a LFK project aimed at creating a new Wiki-based, collaboratively edited dictionary for Lojban intended to contain practical, good-quality definitions for Lojban's core vocabulary. The dictionary's core data will be stored and structured in such a way as to facilitate the exporting of a dictionary entry list printable in a traditional book form.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User:Maik&diff=123653User:Maik2020-02-12T03:17:19Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>fi'i vitke mi'e .maik. <br />
<br />
.i mi cu su'a nelci lo bauske jo'u lo logji jo'u lo runbau jo'u uenaidai lo logji runbau<br />
<br />
.i mi pagbu la [[LFK|lojbo fuzykamni]] gi'e [[catni vlacku selgu'a]] terbe'e<br />
<br />
mu'o</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Action_Log&diff=123652LFK Action Log2020-02-12T03:04:26Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a '''log of the actions''' that the [[LFK]] has formally decided to take through its [[LFK Procedures|standard procedures]].<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
== Launching the Official Lojban Dictionary project ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on January 24, 2020:<br />
<br />
* I call for consensus to launch [[LFK Dictionary Project|The Official Lojban Dictionary project]] with [[User:Maik|maik]] as coordinator.<br />
<br />
This action was declared taken by Maik on February 6, 2020.<br />
<br />
== Statement released: LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 7, 2020:<br />
<br />
* [I] call for consensus approval to distribute the following: (see the [[LFK News Archive]] for final text).<br />
<br />
Action declared taken by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 11, 2020.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK&diff=123651LFK2020-02-12T03:00:19Z<p>Maik: news archive, other tweaks</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''LFK''' (a.k.a. "the '''Lojban Committee'''"; Lojban: "'''la lojbo fuzykamni'''" or "'''lyfy'''") is a standing committee of the [[LLG]]. It succeeds the [[BPFK]] and is charged with improving formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating under-documented language features, responding to issues that arise in usage, and maintaining language documentation and instructional materials. Regarding these ends, the LFK is also charged with soliciting and evaluating feedback from members of the Lojban community, encouraging volunteer activity, and generally promoting the growth of the language community.<br />
<br />
== Meeting Place ==<br />
<br />
The LFK currently holds its general discussions in the [https://framateam.org/lojban/lfk #LFK channel on the Lojban server at Framateam.org]. Meeting place changes, if any, will be announced on this page and elsewhere.<br />
<br />
The LFK welcomes to its meeting places everyone who would like to observe the discussion, share ideas or otherwise participate.<br />
<br />
== Charter ==<br />
<br />
The LFK came into existence during the 2018 LLG Members' Meeting with the adoption of the [[LFK Charter]].<br />
<br />
== Members ==<br />
<br />
The initial members of the LFK, joining during the 2019 LLG Members' Meeting, were, in order, Phma, BookOfPortals, Karis, Ilmen, and Maik.<br />
<br />
The current members are the same:<br />
<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]] (a.k.a. BookOfPortals)<br />
* [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]<br />
* [[User:Karis|Karis]]<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]<br />
* [[User:Pier.abat |Phma]]<br />
<br />
== Chairperson ==<br />
<br />
The LFK selected Phma to be the first chairperson in January of 2020. He is the current chairperson.<br />
<br />
== Procedures ==<br />
<br />
The LFK adopted its standard [[LFK Procedures|Procedures]], which are intended to make consensus rather than voting the preferred method of making decisions, in February of 2020.<br />
<br />
== Records ==<br />
<br />
The LFK maintains a [[LFK Action Log|log of the actions]] that it has formally decided to take through its standard procedures. It also maintains an [[LFK News Archive|archive of news and other communications]].<br />
<br />
== Projects ==<br />
<br />
The LFK has opted to organize its activity in the form of official LFK projects. Each project will have a project coordinator whose role is to organize the activity and keep the project moving toward completion. <br />
<br />
=== Official Lojban Dictionary ===<br />
<br />
The [[LFK Dictionary Project|Official Lojban Dictionary Project]] is a LFK project aimed at creating a new Wiki-based, collaboratively edited dictionary for Lojban intended to contain practical, good-quality definitions for Lojban's core vocabulary. The dictionary's core data will be stored and structured in such a way as to facilitate the exporting of a dictionary entry list printable in a traditional book form.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_News_Archive&diff=123650LFK News Archive2020-02-12T02:52:01Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains an '''archive of official news, press releases, and other communications''' from the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
== LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
''February 11, 2020''<br />
<br />
At the last annual meeting, the Logical Language Group ([[LLG]]) voted to dissolve the inactive baupla fuzykamni ([[BPFK]]) and replace it with a new committee, the lojbo fuzykamni ([[LFK]]).<br />
<br />
The LFK's [[LFK Charter|charter]] directs us to move from language decisions being made by a small group in Lojban to a more open model accessible to all interested persons, with discussions in English to make them more accessible to those who don't speak Lojban fluently.<br />
<br />
The LFK has now been selected and we have begun meeting on Mattermost [1]. Anyone who wants to join in committee discussion is welcome. We hope to get as much community involvement as possible to make sure that our decisions are in accordance with the desires of the community. Your voice is welcome at the LFK, whether you are a relative newcomer or a fluent expert.<br />
<br />
More information on the committee, including its members, charter, and procedures can be found on the Lojban site [2]. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them. We're likely to be back with further announcements about the plans of the committee fairly soon.<br />
<br />
[1] https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk<br />
<br />
[2] https://mw.lojban.org/papri/LFK<br />
<br />
For the LFK,<br />
<br />
[[User:Aris|Aris]] (aka. bookofportals)<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_News_Archive&diff=123649LFK News Archive2020-02-12T02:51:11Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page LFK News to LFK News Archive without leaving a redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains an archive of official news, press releases, and other communications from the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
== LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
''February 11, 2020''<br />
<br />
At the last annual meeting, the Logical Language Group ([[LLG]]) voted to dissolve the inactive baupla fuzykamni ([[BPFK]]) and replace it with a new committee, the lojbo fuzykamni ([[LFK]]).<br />
<br />
The LFK's [[LFK Charter|charter]] directs us to move from language decisions being made by a small group in Lojban to a more open model accessible to all interested persons, with discussions in English to make them more accessible to those who don't speak Lojban fluently.<br />
<br />
The LFK has now been selected and we have begun meeting on Mattermost [1]. Anyone who wants to join in committee discussion is welcome. We hope to get as much community involvement as possible to make sure that our decisions are in accordance with the desires of the community. Your voice is welcome at the LFK, whether you are a relative newcomer or a fluent expert.<br />
<br />
More information on the committee, including its members, charter, and procedures can be found on the Lojban site [2]. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them. We're likely to be back with further announcements about the plans of the committee fairly soon.<br />
<br />
[1] https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk<br />
<br />
[2] https://mw.lojban.org/papri/LFK<br />
<br />
For the LFK,<br />
<br />
[[User:Aris|Aris]] (aka. bookofportals)<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Action_Log&diff=123648LFK Action Log2020-02-12T02:31:29Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a '''log of the actions''' that the [[LFK]] has formally decided to take through its [[LFK Procedures|standard procedures]].<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
== Launching the Official Lojban Dictionary project ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on January 24, 2020:<br />
<br />
* I call for consensus to launch [[LFK Dictionary Project|The Official Lojban Dictionary project]] with [[User:Maik|maik]] as coordinator.<br />
<br />
This action was declared taken by Maik on February 6, 2020.<br />
<br />
== Statement released: LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 7, 2020:<br />
<br />
* [I] call for consensus approval to distribute the following: (see [[LFK News]] for final text).<br />
<br />
Action declared taken by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 11, 2020.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Action_Log&diff=123647LFK Action Log2020-02-12T02:29:39Z<p>Maik: LFK released</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a log of the actions that the LFK has formally decided to take through its [[LFK Procedures|standard procedures]].<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
== Launching the Official Lojban Dictionary project ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on January 24, 2020:<br />
<br />
* I call for consensus to launch [[LFK Dictionary Project|The Official Lojban Dictionary project]] with [[User:Maik|maik]] as coordinator.<br />
<br />
This action was declared taken by Maik on February 6, 2020.<br />
<br />
== Statement released: LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 7, 2020:<br />
<br />
* [I] call for consensus approval to distribute the following: (see [[LFK News]] for final text).<br />
<br />
Action declared taken by [[User:Aris|Aris]] on February 11, 2020.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Template:LFK&diff=123646Template:LFK2020-02-12T02:07:36Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div><br /><br />
<br /><br />
<div><br />
{{ambox<br />
|text=This is an [[:Category:LFK|official page]] of<br />the [[LFK|'''LFK''' (lojbo fuzykamni)]].<br />
|image=[[File:creka_lojban-2400.svg|48px|link=|alt=]]<br />
|type=notice<br />
|style=margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;width:20em;font-size:100%;border-left: 10px solid #E30B65;<br />
}}<br />
</div><br />
[[Category:LFK]]</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_News_Archive&diff=123645LFK News Archive2020-02-12T01:52:37Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains an archive of official news, press releases, and other communications from the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
== LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
''February 11, 2020''<br />
<br />
At the last annual meeting, the Logical Language Group ([[LLG]]) voted to dissolve the inactive baupla fuzykamni ([[BPFK]]) and replace it with a new committee, the lojbo fuzykamni ([[LFK]]).<br />
<br />
The LFK's [[LFK Charter|charter]] directs us to move from language decisions being made by a small group in Lojban to a more open model accessible to all interested persons, with discussions in English to make them more accessible to those who don't speak Lojban fluently.<br />
<br />
The LFK has now been selected and we have begun meeting on Mattermost [1]. Anyone who wants to join in committee discussion is welcome. We hope to get as much community involvement as possible to make sure that our decisions are in accordance with the desires of the community. Your voice is welcome at the LFK, whether you are a relative newcomer or a fluent expert.<br />
<br />
More information on the committee, including its members, charter, and procedures can be found on the Lojban site [2]. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them. We're likely to be back with further announcements about the plans of the committee fairly soon.<br />
<br />
[1] https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk<br />
<br />
[2] https://mw.lojban.org/papri/LFK<br />
<br />
For the LFK,<br />
<br />
[[User:Aris|Aris]] (aka. bookofportals)<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_News_Archive&diff=123644LFK News Archive2020-02-12T01:51:59Z<p>Maik: Created page with "This page contains official news, press releases, and other communications from the LFK. == LFK Established == ''February 11, 2020'' At the last annual meeting, the Log..."</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains official news, press releases, and other communications from the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
== LFK Established ==<br />
<br />
''February 11, 2020''<br />
<br />
At the last annual meeting, the Logical Language Group ([[LLG]]) voted to dissolve the inactive baupla fuzykamni ([[BPFK]]) and replace it with a new committee, the lojbo fuzykamni ([[LFK]]).<br />
<br />
The LFK's [[LFK Charter|charter]] directs us to move from language decisions being made by a small group in Lojban to a more open model accessible to all interested persons, with discussions in English to make them more accessible to those who don't speak Lojban fluently.<br />
<br />
The LFK has now been selected and we have begun meeting on Mattermost [1]. Anyone who wants to join in committee discussion is welcome. We hope to get as much community involvement as possible to make sure that our decisions are in accordance with the desires of the community. Your voice is welcome at the LFK, whether you are a relative newcomer or a fluent expert.<br />
<br />
More information on the committee, including its members, charter, and procedures can be found on the Lojban site [2]. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them. We're likely to be back with further announcements about the plans of the committee fairly soon.<br />
<br />
[1] https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk<br />
<br />
[2] https://mw.lojban.org/papri/LFK<br />
<br />
For the LFK,<br />
<br />
[[User:Aris|Aris]] (aka. bookofportals)<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123643CloudFare Test2020-02-11T20:54:12Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...<br />
<br />
=== ninth edit ===<br />
<br />
one more test for good measure.<br />
<br />
SAVING...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123642CloudFare Test2020-02-11T20:53:00Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.<br />
<br />
=== eighth edit ===<br />
<br />
Previous edit was visible right away.<br />
<br />
Second save this round...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123641CloudFare Test2020-02-11T20:51:27Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== test 1 ==<br />
<br />
=== first edit ===<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable.<br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
=== second edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
=== third edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now.<br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== test 2 ==<br />
<br />
=== fourth edit ===<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see.<br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
=== fifth edit ===<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know.<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
=== sixth edit ===<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...<br />
<br />
== test 3 ==<br />
<br />
Current page title is now LFK_CloudFare_Test<br />
<br />
=== seventh edit ===<br />
<br />
this is the first edit testing the bypassing of the cache for pages with "LFK".<br />
<br />
Saving.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123640Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-11T20:47:48Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page Talk:CacheTestingPage to Talk:LFK CloudFare Test without leaving a redirect: testing</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Third edit was displayed after third save. Talk pages seem okay. This will help.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123639CloudFare Test2020-02-11T20:47:48Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page CacheTestingPage to LFK CloudFare Test without leaving a redirect: testing</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== fifth edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know. <br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== sixth edit ==<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Dictionary_Project&diff=123638LFK Dictionary Project2020-02-10T16:47:11Z<p>Maik: catni vlacku selgu'a link - future lojban page</p>
<hr />
<div>This is the main Lojban Wiki home of the '''Official Lojban Dictionary Project''' (Lojban: '''[[catni vlacku selgu'a]]'''), an official project of the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
Eventually, the Project will have not just a page but a whole wiki of its own, located at http://vlacku.lojban.org or something like that. After the new wiki comes online, this page will continue to exist, and contain a summary and a description and a link for the new dictionary wiki.<br />
<br />
In the meantime, we will use this page as a chalkboard for discussing ideas and drawing up plans. Please add information and resources directly on this page. Add questions and suggestions to the [[Talk:LFK_Dictionary_Project|discussion page]]. Anyone can participate in the discussion, add ideas, or make suggestions.<br />
<br />
== Ideas and Opinion ==<br />
<br />
The content of the material linked in this section is not necessarily approved, official, or going to be. Please be advised.<br />
<br />
Feel free to link whatever you like, but if the content contains opinion please do indicate that.<br />
<br />
* [[User:Maik/Thoughts on an Official Dictionary|Mike's Unofficial Thoughts on an Official Dictionary]]<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=catni_vlacku_selgu%27a&diff=123637catni vlacku selgu'a2020-02-10T16:06:50Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page catni vlaselcku selgu'a to catni vlacku selgu'a without leaving a redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[LFK Dictionary Project]]</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:Welcome!/en&diff=123624Talk:Welcome!/en2020-02-08T21:48:55Z<p>Maik: Down with xorlo! (?)</p>
<hr />
<div>== Old stuff ==<br />
<br />
Aaah, the updated page is much, much better. Not perfect, but better. So I am not going to replace it. Thanks for removing the worst blabla. I accept your reasoning for not using an exact description, gleki.<br />
<br />
The term “facultative precision” sounds … ugh … complex to me. I have never heard of it. Is this term actually used in linguistics? Well, at least its described in the next sentence but I then the term could have been omitted in the first place. I assume that most Lojban newbies are not linguists. ;-)<br />
<br />
Those two sentences are stupid:<br />
<br />
“Lojban penetrates into the essence of phenomena like nothing else.”<br />
<br />
“Lojban changes your mind while you are talking in it.”<br />
<br />
I removed them. I already said why I dislike these sentences and won’t repeat it here. If you are going to re-add them, please give me a good explanation for this.<br />
<br />
This sentence is a bold claim and I want further discussion: “Lojban is the best tool for implementing machine automatic translation.” While I think that Lojban is a very good candidate for automatic translation I don’t see why Lojban must be neccessarily the best “tool” for that. Please explain. I don’t even know if Lojban actually is a tool for auto-translation or if it’s all just theoretical. This begs the question: Is there any automatic translation program right now?<br />
<br />
I replaced “The number of basic verbs is only 350.” with “the number of root words is only 1341.”. I guess the “350” was just a typo.<br />
<br />
I don’t like how brivla are described as “verbs”. This is not quite correct and it is misleading; the reader may be misled to thinking that Lojban has a noun/verb/adjective/adverb system like many languages do which is not true. I think the correct English term for “brivla” would be “predicate”.<br />
<br />
PS: Why did the old discussion go away to my page? Whoever did that, you are confusing me. :-( This is not a personal talk, but a talk about the page, and only the page.<br />
<br />
Reply<br />
<br />
More<br />
<br />
Wuzzy (talk)09:17, 9 December 2013<br />
<br />
Collapse<br />
<br />
Yes, it'd better remove "facultative precision" although you can google it.<br />
<br />
As for brivla not being verbs. Well, of course you can say that although "predicate" can also confuse people. No one really knows what verb is. They differ in different languages. Something that is a verb in some language can be expressed as a noun in another language. I think it's better not to use "verb"/"predicate" at all.<br />
<br />
We need newbies to use Lojban the sooner the better, not start from frightening terms like "predicate".<br />
<br />
Reply<br />
<br />
Parent<br />
<br />
More<br />
<br />
Gleki (talk)09:39, 9 December 2013<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Collapse<br />
<br />
Sorry, im not an expert in LiquidThreads. You can copy old discussions back from http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:Welcome!_(bau_lo_glico)_(old_version)<br />
<br />
Reply<br />
<br />
Parent<br />
<br />
More<br />
<br />
Gleki (talk)09:40, 9 December 2013<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Collapse<br />
<br />
I don’t like how brivla are described as “verbs”. This is not quite correct and it is misleading; the reader may be misled to thinking that Lojban has a noun/verb/adjective/adverb system like many languages do which is not true. I think the correct English term for “brivla” would be “predicate”.<br />
<br />
I think that, in principle, verb is the appropriate term, but also that is relatively useless without a Lojban reference grammar using that kind of terminology. Which I believe could be written by somebody knowledgeable (which I am not).<br />
<br />
Reply<br />
<br />
Parent<br />
<br />
More<br />
<br />
mu'o mi'e .iesk.16:55, 10 December 2013<br />
<br />
Collapse<br />
<br />
Can anyone see the word "verb" on this page now? Technically there is one: "For example, you don't have to always think of what tense (past, present or future) to use in a verb when it's already clear from context." But that's more about English.<br />
<br />
== Criticism ==<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
04:18 < cntrational> "Enter the Lojban website" would be far better<br />
04:19 < cntrational> "It is a constructed language based on so called predicate logic which makes it kind of a bridge between different languages and cultures." -- so-called has a hyphen in it, and the second idea "it's a bridge" doesn't logically follow from "based on predicate logic"<br />
04:20 < cntrational> "What is unique about this language? All natural grown languages have inner drawbacks like complications in grammar rules, biases and restrictions that discourage other ways of thinking." languages very very rarely discourage certain types of thinking<br />
04:20 < cntrational> they're far more likely to *encourage* certain styles of thinking<br />
04:21 < cntrational> like applying gender to genderless objects or encouraging absolute rather than egocentric directions<br />
04:21 < cntrational> "Lojban is designed to free us from these restrictions and see the world brighter." "brighter" is really cheesy and subjective here<br />
04:23 < cntrational> futhermore, the implication that having to make less distinctions will encourage certain types of thinking is factually wrong<br />
04:23 < cntrational> languages make us think differently by *forcing* us to say things a certain way<br />
04:23 < djunias> Perhaps "...see the world, and language itself, more clearly." would fit better.<br />
04:24 < cntrational> like, again, those Australian languages which demand you to use absolute directions, they *force* you to use the language in that way and thus make your mind expand in that direction<br />
04:25 < cntrational> Lojban does encourage certain types of thinking, but for the opposite reason as what you state here<br />
04:25 < cntrational> lojban *forces* you to communicate in a certain way<br />
04:26 < cntrational> for example, the "prohibition of metaphors" (really the abstracting away of metaphors to a hidden role, but that's a different issue) makes Lojbanists state things in a certain way<br />
04:26 < cntrational> this is sometimes clearer and plainer<br />
04:27 < cntrational> or the specificity of Lojban tanru modification order<br />
04:27 < cntrational> the language forces you to use tanru in certain specific ways to make it clear what's modifying what<br />
04:27 < cntrational> etc.<br />
04:28 < cntrational> so i'd suggest you rethink your description of lojban<br />
04:28 < cntrational> it's not interesting because of its freedom of expression<br />
04:28 < cntrational> but because of its *restrictions* on expression that encourage logical expression<br />
04:28 < gleki> everyone criticizes ...,no solutions, i see.. but thanks you at least for the critics<br />
04:29 < cntrational> gleki: sorry, went into a criticism of lojban philosophy than the english<br />
04:30 < cntrational> the rest of the website, imo, should explain what lojban is<br />
04:30 < gleki> cntrational: i mean no one contributes. everyone sits in the channel and is not improving the wiki<br />
04:30 < cntrational> there's no need to awkwardly cram that information into that box<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
== Xorlo demoted to a "other possible variation" ==<br />
<br />
Re: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Welcome!/en&diff=123619&oldid=123208<br />
<br />
Man, you really don't like xorlo, do you, [[User:Gleki|Gleki]]? -[[User:Maik|Maik]] ([[User talk:Maik|talk]]) 21:48, 8 February 2020 (UTC)</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:LFK_Procedures&diff=123613Talk:LFK Procedures2020-02-07T22:39:25Z<p>Maik: /* Consensus procedure addenda */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Consensus procedure addenda ==<br />
<br />
Here are two unofficial but reasonable (clarifying) future addenda for handling CFC reviews.<br />
<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]: I would say, there must be one following ping when there is a revision [to the action under review], but not two more (i.e. you don't have to start the CFC all over again). The following ping must call attention to the fact that the action under review has been revised since the last ping.<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]]: Makes sense.<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]: these pings could repeat several times if revisions keep getting made<br />
* [[User:Aris|Aris]]: We could also move the period after the second ping to two days then. Giving members a minimum of two days to comment seems advisable.<br />
* [[User:Maik|Maik]]: I would agree to that.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Procedures&diff=123612LFK Procedures2020-02-07T22:25:03Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a record of approved '''[[LFK]] Standing Orders, Policies, and Procedures'''.<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
See also: ''[[LFK Action Log]]''.<br />
<br />
== Calling for consensus on proposed actions ==<br />
<br />
A proposed action shall be considered "under review" by the LFK after a<br />
committee member states, in the agreed forum for committee discussion<br />
(currently the Mattermost channel), that they "call for consensus" to perform<br />
the action, pinging the other members of the committee if possible; they should<br />
do this once the proposal has been discussed enough that they feel the committee<br />
is ready to perform this course of action, a threshold which will vary heavily<br />
from proposal to proposal.<br />
<br />
When there are no objections to the action and at least four days<br />
have passed, with another ping if possible midway through (and at least a day<br />
before the final closure), any committee member can "close the review" and<br />
declare the action taken on the committee's behalf, provided they log the<br />
action in the appropriate way, as defined elsewhere in these procedures.<br />
<br />
If there is an objection to an action, discussion should follow with the goal<br />
of making the action satisfactory to all concerned. If there is still<br />
an objection after that discussion, a vote may be called. If there<br />
are more than two proposed resolutions, the vote shall be instant runoff.<br />
Voting shall remain open at least four days.<br />
<br />
Any time period stipulated by this document may be waived if a majority<br />
of the committee supports expediting the action. Nothing in this document<br />
is intended to prevent committee members from taking minor actions on<br />
their own initiative if they do not require the assent of the committee.<br />
<br />
Logs shall be kept in the appropriate log channel until the committee<br />
may otherwise direct. A log entry must include sufficient information<br />
to understand the action without consulting the context in which the<br />
action was taken.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Procedures&diff=123611LFK Procedures2020-02-07T22:24:22Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a record of approved '''[[LFK]] Standing Orders, Policies, and Procedures'''.<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
See also: ''[[LFK Action Log]]''<br />
<br />
== Calling for consensus on proposed actions ==<br />
<br />
A proposed action shall be considered "under review" by the LFK after a<br />
committee member states, in the agreed forum for committee discussion<br />
(currently the Mattermost channel), that they "call for consensus" to perform<br />
the action, pinging the other members of the committee if possible; they should<br />
do this once the proposal has been discussed enough that they feel the committee<br />
is ready to perform this course of action, a threshold which will vary heavily<br />
from proposal to proposal.<br />
<br />
When there are no objections to the action and at least four days<br />
have passed, with another ping if possible midway through (and at least a day<br />
before the final closure), any committee member can "close the review" and<br />
declare the action taken on the committee's behalf, provided they log the<br />
action in the appropriate way, as defined elsewhere in these procedures.<br />
<br />
If there is an objection to an action, discussion should follow with the goal<br />
of making the action satisfactory to all concerned. If there is still<br />
an objection after that discussion, a vote may be called. If there<br />
are more than two proposed resolutions, the vote shall be instant runoff.<br />
Voting shall remain open at least four days.<br />
<br />
Any time period stipulated by this document may be waived if a majority<br />
of the committee supports expediting the action. Nothing in this document<br />
is intended to prevent committee members from taking minor actions on<br />
their own initiative if they do not require the assent of the committee.<br />
<br />
Logs shall be kept in the appropriate log channel until the committee<br />
may otherwise direct. A log entry must include sufficient information<br />
to understand the action without consulting the context in which the<br />
action was taken.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Procedures&diff=123610LFK Procedures2020-02-07T22:22:26Z<p>Maik: #LFK-logs</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a record of approved '''[[LFK]] Standing Orders, Policies, and Procedures'''.<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
== Calling for consensus on proposed actions ==<br />
<br />
A proposed action shall be considered "under review" by the LFK after a<br />
committee member states, in the agreed forum for committee discussion<br />
(currently the Mattermost channel), that they "call for consensus" to perform<br />
the action, pinging the other members of the committee if possible; they should<br />
do this once the proposal has been discussed enough that they feel the committee<br />
is ready to perform this course of action, a threshold which will vary heavily<br />
from proposal to proposal.<br />
<br />
When there are no objections to the action and at least four days<br />
have passed, with another ping if possible midway through (and at least a day<br />
before the final closure), any committee member can "close the review" and<br />
declare the action taken on the committee's behalf, provided they log the<br />
action in the appropriate way, as defined elsewhere in these procedures.<br />
<br />
If there is an objection to an action, discussion should follow with the goal<br />
of making the action satisfactory to all concerned. If there is still<br />
an objection after that discussion, a vote may be called. If there<br />
are more than two proposed resolutions, the vote shall be instant runoff.<br />
Voting shall remain open at least four days.<br />
<br />
Any time period stipulated by this document may be waived if a majority<br />
of the committee supports expediting the action. Nothing in this document<br />
is intended to prevent committee members from taking minor actions on<br />
their own initiative if they do not require the assent of the committee.<br />
<br />
Logs shall be kept in the appropriate log channel until the committee<br />
may otherwise direct. A log entry must include sufficient information<br />
to understand the action without consulting the context in which the<br />
action was taken.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Action_Log&diff=123609LFK Action Log2020-02-07T22:21:21Z<p>Maik: #LFK-logs</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a log of the actions that the LFK has formally decided to take through its [[LFK Procedures|standard procedures]].<br />
<br />
The contents of this page are copied from the records officially kept in [https://framateam.org/lojban/channels/lfk-logs #LFK-logs channel on Mattermost].<br />
<br />
== Launching the Official Lojban Dictionary project ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris (BookOfPortals)]] on January 24, 2020:<br />
<br />
* I call for consensus to launch [[LFK Dictionary Project|The Official Lojban Dictionary project]] with [[User:Maik|maik]] as coordinator.<br />
<br />
This action was declared taken by Maik on February 6, 2020.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Action_Log&diff=123608LFK Action Log2020-02-07T21:43:09Z<p>Maik: Created page with "This page contains a log of the actions that the LFK has formally decided to take through its standard procedures. == Launching the Official Lojban Dictio..."</p>
<hr />
<div>This page contains a log of the actions that the LFK has formally decided to take through its [[LFK Procedures|standard procedures]]. <br />
<br />
== Launching the Official Lojban Dictionary project ==<br />
<br />
Action proposed by [[User:Aris|Aris (BookOfPortals)]] on January 24, 2020:<br />
<br />
* I call for consensus to launch [[LFK Dictionary Project|The Official Lojban Dictionary project]] with [[User:Maik|maik]] as coordinator.<br />
<br />
This action was declared taken by Maik on February 6, 2020.<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK&diff=123607LFK2020-02-07T21:33:39Z<p>Maik: Activity Log</p>
<hr />
<div>The '''LFK''' (a.k.a. "the '''Lojban Committee'''"; Lojban: "'''la lojbo fuzykamni'''" or "'''lyfy'''") is a standing committee of the [[LLG]]. It succeeds the [[BPFK]] and is charged with improving formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating under-documented language features, responding to issues that arise in usage, and maintaining language documentation and instructional materials. Regarding these ends, the LFK is also charged with soliciting and evaluating feedback from members of the Lojban community, encouraging volunteer activity, and generally promoting the growth of the language community.<br />
<br />
== Meeting Place ==<br />
<br />
The LFK currently holds its discussions in the #LFK channel on the Lojban server at Framateam.org (https://framateam.org/lojban). Meeting place changes, if any, will be announced on this page and elsewhere.<br />
<br />
The LFK welcomes to its meeting places everyone who would like to observe the discussion, share ideas or otherwise participate.<br />
<br />
== Charter ==<br />
<br />
The LFK came into existence during the 2018 LLG Members' Meeting with the adoption of the [[LFK Charter]].<br />
<br />
== Members ==<br />
<br />
The initial members of the LFK, joining during the 2019 LLG Members' Meeting, were, in order, Phma, BookOfPortals, Karis, Ilmen, and Maik.<br />
<br />
The current members are the same:<br />
<br />
* BookOfPortals<br />
* Ilmen<br />
* Karis<br />
* Maik<br />
* Phma<br />
<br />
== Chairperson ==<br />
<br />
The LFK selected Phma to be the first chairperson in January of 2020. He is the current chairperson.<br />
<br />
== Procedures ==<br />
<br />
The LFK adopted its standard [[LFK Procedures|Procedures]], which are intended to make consensus rather than voting the preferred method of making decisions, in February of 2020.<br />
<br />
== Activity Log ==<br />
<br />
The LFK maintains a [[LFK Action Log|log]] of the actions that it has formally decided to take through its standard procedures.<br />
<br />
== Projects ==<br />
<br />
The LFK has opted to organize its activity in the form of official LFK projects. Each project will have a project coordinator whose role is to organize the activity and keep the project moving toward completion. <br />
<br />
=== Official Lojban Dictionary ===<br />
<br />
The [[LFK Dictionary Project|Official Lojban Dictionary Project]] is a LFK project aimed at creating a new Wiki-based, collaboratively edited dictionary for Lojban intended to contain practical, good-quality definitions for Lojban's core vocabulary. The dictionary's core data will be stored and structured in such a way as to facilitate the exporting of a dictionary entry list printable in a traditional book form.<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=BPFK&diff=123606BPFK2020-02-07T20:31:21Z<p>Maik: grammar</p>
<hr />
<div>BPFK ('''baupla fuzykamni''', i.e. "Language Planning Committee", also known as '''byfy''') was a standing committee of [[LLG]] with the charge of improving and maintaining formal descriptions of Lojban, elaborating undocumented and under-documented language features, resolving inconsistencies and errors in existing documentation, and responding to issues that arise in usage. Initially [[Official Baseline Statement (2002/2003)|chartered in 2003]], it was reauthorized by the 2014 meeting of the LLG membership, and presented with a [[BPFK Reauthorization|new charter]].<br />
<br />
During the LLG Members' Meeting of 2018, it was voted to dissolve the BPFK and replace it with a new committee, the [[LFK]] (lojbo fuzykamni, i.e. "Lojban Committee"). The LFK is the official successor of the BPFK and is charged with functions largely similar to those of the BPFK.<br />
<br />
== Work ==<br />
<br />
* [[BPFK Sections]]<br />
* [[BPFK Checkpoints]]<br />
* [[Issues with checkpointed BPFK sections|Issues with checkpointed BPFK sections]]<br />
* [[BPFK To-Do]]<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
* [[Official Baseline Statement (2002/2003)|Baseline Statement (2002/2003)]]<br />
* [[BPFK Procedures|Old BPFK Procedures]]<br />
* [[BPFK: Old BPFK Data|Old BPFK Data]]<br />
* [[BPFK Reauthorization]]<br />
* [[BPFK members]]<br />
* [[LFK]] (successor committee of the BPFK)</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=LFK_Dictionary_Project&diff=123602LFK Dictionary Project2020-02-07T18:47:35Z<p>Maik: -vlaselcku +vlacku</p>
<hr />
<div>This is the main Lojban Wiki home of the '''Official Lojban Dictionary Project''' (Lojban: '''catni vlacku selgu'a'''), an official project of the [[LFK]].<br />
<br />
Eventually, the Project will have not just a page but a whole wiki of its own, located at http://vlacku.lojban.org or something like that. After the new wiki comes online, this page will continue to exist, and contain a summary and a description and a link for the new dictionary wiki.<br />
<br />
In the meantime, we will use this page as a chalkboard for discussing ideas and drawing up plans. Please add information and resources directly on this page. Add questions and suggestions to the [[Talk:LFK_Dictionary_Project|discussion page]]. Anyone can participate in the discussion, add ideas, or make suggestions.<br />
<br />
== Ideas and Opinion ==<br />
<br />
The content of the material linked in this section is not necessarily approved, official, or going to be. Please be advised.<br />
<br />
Feel free to link whatever you like, but if the content contains opinion please do indicate that.<br />
<br />
* [[User:Maik/Thoughts on an Official Dictionary|Mike's Unofficial Thoughts on an Official Dictionary]]<br />
<br />
<br />
{{LFK}}</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:LFK_Dictionary_Project&diff=123601Talk:LFK Dictionary Project2020-02-07T18:45:38Z<p>Maik: /* Dictionary name */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Dictionary name ==<br />
<br />
How about just {vlacku}? The word {vlaselcku} is currently undefined, and I doubt "words within a dictionary" is a concept worth a dedicated lexeme. If {se} is needed, then {se vlacku} would be the way to go IMHO. [-Ilmen]<br />
* Sounds good. There is a distinction between {cukta} and {se cukta}; the first is a book as a container and the second is a book as content. (Xorxes drew this distinction years ago on the list, mentioning that it's made in Spanish, and it sorta stuck with me). But it's hard to separate one from the other, so why not just go with {vlacku} [[User:Maik|Maik]] ([[User talk:Maik|talk]]) 18:45, 7 February 2020 (UTC)</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Aris&diff=123599User talk:Aris2020-02-07T17:35:05Z<p>Maik: /* Dictionary thoughts reply */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Welcome!==<br />
Welcome to my talk page! Please feel free to leave me a message in a new section below! [[User:Aris|Aris]] ([[User talk:Aris|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dictionary thoughts reply ==<br />
<br />
I replied to a comment you made [[User_talk:Maik/Thoughts_on_an_Official_Dictionary#Dispute_resolution|here]]; I don't know if you get notified for that or not, so I am mentioning it here. [[User:Maik|Maik]] ([[User talk:Maik|talk]]) 17:35, 7 February 2020 (UTC)</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Aris&diff=123598User talk:Aris2020-02-07T17:34:44Z<p>Maik: /* Dictionary thoughts reply */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Welcome!==<br />
Welcome to my talk page! Please feel free to leave me a message in a new section below! [[User:Aris|Aris]] ([[User talk:Aris|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dictionary thoughts reply ==<br />
<br />
I replied to a comment you made [[User_talk:Maik/Thoughts_on_an_Official_Dictionary#Dispute_resolution|here]]; I don't know if you get notified for that or not, so I am mentioning it here.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Maik/Thoughts_on_an_Official_Dictionary&diff=123597User talk:Maik/Thoughts on an Official Dictionary2020-02-07T17:31:37Z<p>Maik: /* Dispute resolution */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Dispute resolution ==<br />
<br />
You should make it a bit clearer that if the dictionary team can't solve a problem, it'll be decided by the LFK. We're the last resort authority. I imagine that discussion among the dictionary team will usually be sufficient, but if people can't agree the LFK will resolve the dispute. -BookOfPortals on Mattermost #LFK<br />
* I am willing to make that change, if you are pretty sure that the LFK will want to arbitrate every problem that comes up -Mike<br />
** I'd think we'd want to arbitrate every dispute that cannot be resolved by discussion among the dictionary team. How else would such disputes be resolved? (I'm BookOfPortals on Mattermost.) [[User:Aris|Aris]] ([[User talk:Aris|talk]]) 19:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
*** Initially I figured the dictionary team itself would vote on it. Another possibility is that the LFK members who are on the Team would decide on the spot, and only if they could not decide would the thing go to a general LFK vote. Aside from the fact that the LFK members will be present on the Team, everything the Team does is subject to LFK review anyway, so I see no need to bring the LFK into resolving this or that word as the definitions are being written. [[User:Maik|Maik]] ([[User talk:Maik|talk]]) 17:31, 7 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Decentralized? ==<br />
<br />
On a more philosophical note, the Dictionary Team is going to be very decentralized. There were two models I gave most consideration when setting up the LFK: Node.js and Rust. Rust has a more centralized model; significant changes are discussed by the entire team and approved collectively. Node.js has a more decentralized model. Most changes are handled by individual collaborators (that is, experienced contributors who have been given commit access), but if the collaborators disagree, the matter is decided by the more restricted Technical Steering Committee, which operates by consensus among its members. So we'd essentially be the TSC. -Aris/BookofPortals<br />
* '' Very'' decentralized? The Dictionary Team will be the Borg compared to Jbovlaste! At least we will have page layout conventions and quality standards, and edits will actually be reviewed. u'i[rcu'i]vla spam and experimental gismu for Pokemon characters will be properly processed. [[User:Maik|Maik]] ([[User talk:Maik|talk]]) 21:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123596Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-07T13:19:53Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page Talk:CacheTestingPage(&) to Talk:CacheTestingPage without leaving a redirect: revert</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Third edit was displayed after third save. Talk pages seem okay. This will help.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123595CloudFare Test2020-02-07T13:19:53Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page CacheTestingPage(&) to CacheTestingPage without leaving a redirect: revert</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== fifth edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know. <br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== sixth edit ==<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123594Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-07T12:38:25Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page Talk:CacheTestingPage to Talk:CacheTestingPage(&) without leaving a redirect: testing something</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Third edit was displayed after third save. Talk pages seem okay. This will help.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123593CloudFare Test2020-02-07T12:38:25Z<p>Maik: Maik moved page CacheTestingPage to CacheTestingPage(&) without leaving a redirect: testing something</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== fifth edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know. <br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== sixth edit ==<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123592CloudFare Test2020-02-07T04:02:14Z<p>Maik: 6</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== fifth edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know. <br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== sixth edit ==<br />
<br />
Turns out I was WRONG. The last edit had predicted behavior.<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage does NOT bypass cache.<br />
<br />
I don't know why it appeared to bypass the cache earlier. Must have been lucky timing (?).<br />
<br />
I don't really get this. Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123591CloudFare Test2020-02-07T03:57:49Z<p>Maik: </p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is NOT cached, which makes me doubt that it is NOT cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...<br />
<br />
<br />
== fifth edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I have verified after fourth save that:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage - bypasses cached / is not cached<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage - does not bypass cached / is cached<br />
<br />
Why?? I don't know. <br />
<br />
Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CloudFare_Test&diff=123590CloudFare Test2020-02-07T03:54:36Z<p>Maik: hmm, #4</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
The purpose of this page is to see if I can bypass the Cloudflare using the ampersand trick.<br />
<br />
Since this is a wiki I will actually record what I am doing.<br />
<br />
I started with this URL: https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&setlang=en<br />
<br />
And got the usual "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or create this page."<br />
<br />
I clicked on "create this page" and here I am. The new URL is<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
... without the &setlang=en query string variable. <br />
<br />
Okay time to Save page...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay I saved the page but I stupidly forgot to look at the URL before clicking Edit but right now the URL is again<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Okay, saving the page redirected me to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
... which is the "pretty" URL and NOT index + query string<br />
<br />
And, as expected, the displayed page is a cache of the first edit. Sorry, no dice.<br />
<br />
This confirms what I was trying to say. If there '''''is''''' a way to stop the redirecting to the "pretty" URL then I would expect the trick to work. But I don't know how to do that right now. <br />
<br />
Saving edit #3...<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Starting a second round of tests. Reason: I don't understand why index.php?title=such_and_such is not cached, which makes me doubt that it is cached. RLP's rules are:<br />
<br />
<nowiki><br />
*lojban.org/*&* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*edit* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Special:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/*Talk:* Cache Level: Bypass<br />
*lojban.org/* Browser Cache TTL: 30 minutes, Always Online: On, Cache Level: Cache Everything, Edge Cache TTL: 2 hours, Origin Cache Control: Off<br />
</nowiki><br />
<br />
Why on earth would <br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
not be cached? there is no & in that URL, and doesn't match any filtered pattern that I can see. <br />
<br />
Okay, let me see if it really isn't cached. Saving...</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123589Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-07T03:33:02Z<p>Maik: #4</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....<br />
<br />
== fourth edit ==<br />
<br />
Third edit was displayed after third save. Talk pages seem okay. This will help.</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123588Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-07T03:31:21Z<p>Maik: #3</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...<br />
<br />
<br />
== third edit ==<br />
<br />
Looks like RLP's exception for talk pages worked. Second edit was displayed.<br />
<br />
Let's try again. Saving....</div>Maikhttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CloudFare_Test&diff=123587Talk:CloudFare Test2020-02-07T03:29:27Z<p>Maik: #2</p>
<hr />
<div>== first edit ==<br />
<br />
Repeating test already done on main page.<br />
<br />
current URL:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit&redlink=1<br />
<br />
Saving...<br />
<br />
== second edit ==<br />
<br />
On save, was redirected to<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Talk:CacheTestingPage<br />
<br />
currently at:<br />
<br />
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Talk:CacheTestingPage&action=edit<br />
<br />
don't know exactly what redlink means. something to do with new page.<br />
<br />
Saving ...</div>Maik