Lojban - User contributions [en]

devanagari orthography

2019-10-09T03:09:01Z

Vitno: upgrade xinlermorna to V0.6

*I created a very, very experimental Devanagiri orthography. Until I get an image up, I will describe it here:
**The syllabic script is abandoned. So are the letters 'ei', 'ai', 'ou' and 'au'. Vowel marks now form dipthongs. The sound for retroflex 'sh' is used for Lojban 'j'. The aspirated stops are dropped. Double line for capitalization, 'aha' for full stop and other symbols unchanged. (I think writing an apostrophe would be pretty hard, though...)
**I'm currently making a graphic that will map Lojban to Devanagari, one-to-one, and I'll add a link here soon.
*A Devanagari orthography has been discussed on the list. See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1323, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1324, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1341
**Since the topic is pretty old there, I think I'll continue the discussion here.
***Yes, indeed, the "unwritten vowel" is a schwa, just like Lojban y. However, it would be much more useful in to have it represent Lojban "a" in this orthography. Now, to write a conjuct consonant starting with r that doesn't have an equivalent in an Indic language, the problem is easily solved by "r" sign (like a hook on top) Others aren't so simple.
***The suggestion for using ph for Lojban "f" and bh for Lojban "v" was a good one.
***Dipthongs, on second thought, would be better written, (also as suggested on the list) using the available dipthongs. The Devanagari diphthong "ai", although beginning with a schwa, can be used for Lojban "ai". Indeed, all diphtongs in Lojban are taken care of save "ii" and "uu". If we were using an orthogaphy like Kannada or Telugu, the solution for this would be quite simple: use the existing letters for long "i" and long "u". Unfortunately, Devanagari has the fomer, but not the latter, so to be consistent, we must use the "initial form" of each -with- the diacritic on the vowel.
***Maybe I missed this in the discussion, but when I studied Sanskrit, there certainly was a letter (and a diacritic) for long-u, as well as long-i. What I don't see, though, is a diphthong for '''oi'''.''(Because /o/ is already a diphthong in Sanskrit, the short form of /au/. pc)'' As to the other falling diphthongs, would you write them with semivowels w/y instead of vowels? And are we using visarga for apostrophe, as I would think should be obvious? --mi'e mark. Eep, it looks like some of what's said there was by '''me'''. I should read it first.
***::Bap!:: I was thehink about 'ei'. Sorry. Yes, you can write the other falling dipthongs with semivowels. Hm... and I never noticed '''oi''' either. What about '''eu'''? Same problem. ''(Exactly; /e/ is short /ai/. pc)'' And the visarga is logical for the apostrophe. Wouldn't the danda be logical for the full stop? And the puurNaviraama for the comma might work too.
***Make c into Lojban c and ch into Lojban tc, and j into Lojban j and jh into Lojban dj, Devanagari "h" into Lojban x, and all you have to worry about is punctuation. Now a full stop could be indicated using "aha", but as I said earlier, the "'" becomes a problem. So does capitalisation and the comma, because none of the existing Devanagari fonts I've seen so far have anything equivalent to those symbols. Any suggestions?
***(Was this in the earlier messages? Transcribing English and Arabic and whatever, modern Hindi uses dots creatively: I remember dotted /j/ for /z/ -- and monolinguals saying things like /dijaster/ and /sijors/-- a brand of ciggyboos. pc)

*Whoever was working on this, if you could describe this orthography in terms of the Unicode Devanagari code chart at: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf then a [[yudit]] keymap can be made very easily, and then pictures can be made even easier. --[[Jay Kominek]]
*[[User:Vitno|la vitno]]:
** [[File:xinlermorna.png|thumb]]I just assembled a Devanagari Orthography for Lojban, for the consistency of the Devanagari visual appearance, it is provided as a [[:Media:xinlermorna-V0.6.pdf|PDF file (click to download)]], and here's an online transliteration tool: https://vitovan.com/xinlermorna-transliteration/ [[File:xinlermorna-preview-V0.6.png|thumb]]
** The corresponding Latin is {{mu|pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri}}

Lojban orthographies

2019-10-09T03:08:19Z

Vitno: upgrade xinlermorna to V0.6

{{See also|Alternate orthographies}}
{{See also|punctuation}}

{| class="wikitable" style="width: 1400px"
| Name
! scope="col" style="width: 580px; vertical-align: top" | Text Sample
! scope="col" style="width: 500px;" | Rules
! scope="col" style="width: 300px;" | Comments
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard orthography
| le fasnu

le fonxa cu sanga .i la .alis goi ko'a frati la'edi'u lenu cpacu le fonxa .i ko'a kerlo ganse lu coi. .alis. .i mi du la rik. .i .a'o do kanro li'u .i lu coidoi rik. .i .ia mi kanro .i .a'o do go'i li'u .i lu .ia .i mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la zedjed. poi balvi jibni .i .a'o mi'o te tigni li'u

.i ko'a spusku lu ko denpa .i mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste .y .y .y .i mi zifre .i .au mi kansa .i ma tcika li'u

.i la rik. goi ko'e spusku lu mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la xacac. .i .au do djica cuxna da poi fasnu .i pei skina .i pei zgike tigni .i pei xajmi tigni .i pei draci .i pei dansu li'u

.i la .alis. spusku lu mi nelci loi zgike draci .i .i'a .au la lemizerABL. se tigni ca ta .i mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Rapprochement orthography
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse lu Coi Alis. I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro lihu. I lu Coidoi Rik. I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi lihu. I lu, ia. I mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni lihu.

I koha spusku lu Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika lihu.

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku lu Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina. I pei zgike tigni. I pei hajmi tigni. I pei draci. I pei dansu. lihu.

I la Alis, spusku lu Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizer'abl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u.
|
| This orthography was suggested as a new orthography for the common Loglan/Lojban language, in the event of a rapproachment between LLG and TLI. The rapproachment never took place, and the orthography has only been used on the Lojban mailing list, by a couple of people.<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cyrillic orthography
| лэ фасну

лэ фонха шу санга .и ла .алис гои ко'а фрати ла'эди'у лэну шпашу лэ фонха .и ко'а кэрло гансэ лу шои. .алис. .и ми ду ла рик. .и .а'о до канро ли'у .и лу шоидои рик. .и .иа ми канро .и а'о до го'и ли'у

.и лу .иа,.и ми джиша лону джуно лэну до ба канса ми лэ густа кэ ванши санми ша ла зэджэд. пои балви жибни .и .а'о ми'о тэ тигни ли'у .и ко'а спуску лу ко дэнпа .и ми нитшу лэну шатлу лэми дэтри листэ .ъ .ъ .ъ
.и ми зифрэ .и .ау ми канса .и ма тшика ли'у

.и ла рик. гои ко'э спуску лу ми ба шпэду ло густа жубмэ ша ла хашаш. .и .ау до джиша
шухна да пои фасну .и пэи скина .и пэи згикэ тигни .и пэи хажми тигни .и пэи драши .и пэи дансу ли'у

.и ла .алис. спуску лу ми нэлши лои згикэ драши .и .и'а.ау ла лэмизэрАБЛ. сэ тигни
ша та .и ми нэлши лои ну дансу ли'у
| https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| Used in a Russian brochure about Lojban that Bob LeChevalier handed out during a visit to Russia.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Tengwar orthography
| [[File:le-fasnu-tengwar.gif]]
| Mentioned briefly in the CLL: https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| An orthography with the Tengwar of Feanor, a fictional writing system invented by J. R. R. Tolkien.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European (Arnt Richard Johansen version)
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha, frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse «Coi Alis! I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro.» I «Coidoi Rik! I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi.» I, «Ia. I mi djica lonu djuno, lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni.»

I koha spusku «Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika?»

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku «Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina? I pei zgike tigni? I pei hajmi tigni? I pei draci? I pei dansu?»

I la Alis, spusku «Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizerábl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu.»
|
| Arnt Richard Johansen: "This is an example of how Lojban might look if it was written with the same conventions as the European natural languages."<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Alice in Wonderland orthography
|
ni'o ca lo nu .abu cusku lo di'u valsi kei lo jamfu be .abu cu sakli .i ba zi ku lo nu jaurjanli zo'u: .abu jinru lo silna djacu fe'e co'u lo firji'o .i pa moi sidbo fa lo nu .abu ba'o farlu lo xamsi .i «lu va'o la'e di'u mi ka'e xrukla fu lo trene —sei .abu sezysku— li'u» (to la .alis. pu klama lo xamsi korbi pa roi lo nunjmive gi'e ja'e bo jinvi lo du'u ro pagbu be lo glico korbi cu se zvati so'o jinru minji noi nenri lo xamsi ku'o .e so'o verba noi kakpa lo canre lo loldi lo mudri canpa ku'o .e lo porsi be fi lo xotli be'o .e lo trene tcana noi trixe py toi)
| Equivalent to the standard orthography with the following additions:
* '''lu''' and '''li'u''' are always written '''«lu''' and '''li'u»'''
* '''to''' and '''toi''' are written '''(to''' and '''toi)'''
* '''sei''' clauses are surrounded by em dashes, e.g. '''—sei la .alis. cu cusku—'''
* words following '''ba'e''' are italicized, e.g. '''na ba'e ''mutce'' lo ka cizra'''
| Used in works such as Alice in Wonderland, Snow White and The Wizard of Oz.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cowan's [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9205/msg00000.html alternative orthography]
| mi na certu le se zajbrrnatleta I kui mi coa jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu noe snada tua le la Olimpik nunjvi pevi la Tokios I saunai mi nuo zmadu zoepecaaku leni snada I tie le mulno nizyjia cu te zmadu mi le gugdrrkorea kuceo le gugdrrnafganistana kuceo le gugdrrkenia kuceo le gugdrrtrinidada kuceo le xanto denci xaskoi gugde I kui mi zmadu u,a le gugdrrlixtenctaine I lenu go,i cu pluka nuzba I zmadu pluka fao le nuo nu le gugdrrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la Olimpik
| The alternative orthography makes the following substitutions.

1) The letter x is replaced in all uses by h. It is useful to emphasize
here that this does not represent a change in pronunciation.

2) The diphthong au is replaced by ao.

3) The apostrophe, which in the standard orthography is used only between
vowels, is replaced in the following ways:

3a) In a'a a'e a'u e'a e'e e'o e'u o'a o'e o'o o'u,
it is dropped, producing aa ae au ea ee eo eu oa oe oo ou.

3b) In a'i a'o e'i o'i, it is replaced by comma,
producing a,i a,o e,i o,i.

3c) In i'a i'e i'i i'o i'u u'a u'e u'i u'o u'u, it is
dropped, producing ia ie ii io iu ua ue ui uo uu; except that
when appearing stand-alone, and in names and borrowings,
it is replaced by comma, producing i,a i,e i,i i,o i,u
u,a u,e u,i u,o u,u.

4) Capitalization is used for the first letter of names, and for the cmavo
".i", which is written "I".

5) Periods before words are dropped.

6) Periods after words are replaced by comma. This comma cannot be confused
with the comma of 3b and 3c, because that cannot appear at the end of a word.
However, periods at the end of names are dropped.

7) Syllabic r l m n are written rr ll mm nn, and need not be set off by
comma.

8) Other uses of comma are retained. When doubt arises whether a comma
represents a voiced or a voiceless glide, the voiceless glide is preferred.

9) Stress is indicated by an apostrophe following the vowel of the stressed
syllable.
| Cowan: "Obviously, the alternative orthography is much more "context-sensitive" than the standard orthography. Two consecutive vowels in the standard orthography always represent a diphthong; in the alternative orthography, they may represent a diphthong, two syllables with a voiceless glide, or two syllables with a voiced glide, depending on the particular two vowels and on the kind of word in which they appear. On the other hand, thedifference between syllabic and consonantal r l m n is clearly marked in the alternative orthography."
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Diacritical orthography
| ŭa la .dòrotis. cu spusku zo ĭe lo tciŭaŭa
|
* The glide versions of '''u''' and '''i''' are written '''ŭ''' and '''ĭ''' respectively.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
| This orthography can easily be combined with other orthographies.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European 2
| Na ku la `Loglan` cu jai bau casnu. `I kuhi zo «zuhi» jaha drani. `I lo ka ni la Jboguhe cu cmalu cu banzuni lo nu sohe nu tavla cu nu tavla zuhi.
|
* The glottal stop is written '''`'''. cmevla are surrounded by '''`''' and can be capitalized, e.g. '''la `Djan`'''
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, comma can be used as is common in many european languages: '''Mi rinsa do, noi pendo mi.'''
* The first letter of every sentence (almost always '''.i''') is capitalized: '''`I mi tugni.'''
* The apostrophe ' is written '''h'''.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard Lojban orthography with punctuation hybrid
|
.i ze'a pi ro lo nunkei, la noltruni'u no roi de'a damba lo drata kelci gi'e no roi de'a krixa «lu ko lo stedu ta vimcu li'u», ja «lu ko lo stedu tu vimcu li'u». .i lo se dapma be ny cu se pifygau lo sonci, noi li'a de'a bargu. .i ba za lo cacra be li ji'i pi mu, ge no bargu cu zvati, gi ro lo kelci po'u na'e bo la noltrunau, ja la noltruni'u, ja la .àlis. cu pinfu gi'e se dapma fi lo nu se selmi'ecatra. .i ba bo la noltruni'u cu tatpi cliva gi'e cusku fi la .alis. fe «lu xu do pu viska la jitfa cakyrespa li'u».

.i «lu na go'i —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— .i mi na djuno ji'a sai, lo du'u ma kau jitfa cakyrespa li'u»

.i «lu te zbasu lo jitfa cakyrespa bo stasu —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu mi pu no roi ga viska cy, gi se tavla fi cy —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu .e'e mi'o klama —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— .i ba lisri cy ri do li'u»

.i la .àlis. ca lo nu cliva cadzu cu tirna lo nu la noltrunau cu lauble voksa cusku fi lo zvati fe «lu ca'e ro do se fraxu li'u». .i «lu ri'e la'e ba'e ''di'u'' xamgu li'u», se sezysku la .àlis. .i ri pu cinmo lo nu tolgei, lo nu la noltruni'u cu minde xo kau nuncatra.
|
This follows the Alice in Wonderland orthography, with the following additions:
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, while the comma is used to mark phrasal boundaries.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
* Sometimes, a separate letter or symbol is used for glottal stops so that it remains different from the full stop at the end of a sentence. A variety of methods have been tried out, from using '''q''' to mark glottal stops, to using special diacritics. Sometimes only the glottal stops that surround cmevla are replaced with something else, while words like '''.i''' remain untouched. Example: '''.i la ḳèmac̣ pu cliva.'''
| The purpose of this orthography is easier readability, which is important especially when reading longer pieces of text, while trying to retain the familiar feel of the standard orthography, which explains the lack of capitalization.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Hungarian orthography]]
|
'le fasznu

'le fonhasu szangaila .alisz.gojkohaf ratilahedihulenus pasule fonhaikoha kerlo ganszelusoj .alisz.imidula .rik.iahodo kanrolihuilusojdoj .rik.ijjami kanroiahodogohilihuilujjaimid zsisalonud zsunolenudoba kanszamile gusztake vansi szanmisala. zedzsed.poj balvi zsibniiahomihote tignilihu

'ikohasz pudazoheluko denpaimi nicsulenu satlulemi detri liszteyyyimi zifreiawmi kanszaima csikalihu

'ila .rik.gojkohesz pudazohelumibas pedulo guszta zsubmesala.hasas.iawdod zsisa suhnadapoj fasznuipejsz kinaipejz gike tigniipej hazsmi tigniipeid rasiipej danszulihu

'ila .alisz. danfulumi nelsilojz giked rasiiihaawla.lemizer abl.sze tignisataimi nelsilojnu danszulihu
|
* Sibilants work in the expected way (''c'' and ''cs'' also exist, just to be annoying).
* The vowels are the same as in the standard Lojban orthography.
* ''j'' and ''w'' are used to indicate semivowels. When these letters are doubled, they indicate initial rather than final glides.
* Lojban /'/ is indicated by ''h'' between two vowels. Lojban /x/ is denoted ''hh'' between two vowels and ''h'' elsewhere.
* As in Hungarian, 'words' are stressed on the first syllable. This is what messes up actual word boundaries so dramatically. Moreover, a word cannot begin with a consonant cluster, also like in Hungarian. An apostrophe at the beginning of a text indicates that the first syllable in it is not stressed.
|
An intentionally inconvenient orthography that divides words based on stress rather than meaning. Not intended as an improvement of the standard orthography, but may be interesting to see how it affects one's ability to read.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Devanagari orthography]]
|
पु ष़ेहु से जुनो लै ष़ेहु रेंवि गिहे से झ़िझ़्नु शा ले तेम्शि बे ले नु ले ज़ेना शा झ़्मिवे वाु फ़ा ले दुहु ले ब्रादि बे ले ला त्लुंरानां· बा क्लामा रि

[[Image:xinlermorna-preview-V0.6.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri)
|
* all the inherent vowels /ə/ are reserved as '''y''' in Lojban, suppressing is not allowed without being explicitly marked as such (with ्) or being the last letter of word.
* letter '''ष़''' /ɭə/ is assigned the value '''/zə/'''
* letter '''ज़''' /zə/ is assigned the value '''/ʣə/'''
* others are used as in Hindi, for the details, please read the [[:Media:xinlermorna-V0.6.pdf|xinlermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with xinlermorna as described at [[devanagari_orthography]], here's an online transliteration tool: https://vitovan.com/xinlermorna-transliteration/
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Arabic Orthography]]
|
ئ لَ ءضٍرٍتِسء شُ خبژ لٍ مضژ بً لٍ گنر سسته پً لَ ءكَنزَسء فِهٍ كنس لَ نكفمت ءخًنرِسء كُ نٍاِ تً شنگ كُهٍ ءاً لَ فتفمت ءاًمء كُ نٍاِ سپن لٍ تً شنگ إ لٍ زضن شُ شمل كِهُ لٍ نُ لٍ مضر پٍاِ زٌ كًهَ زلزب شُ ژَاِ سرش فَاِ لٍ كَ لٍ شرش شُ بور شًهُ وًهَ لٍ منل بً لِ سٍهِ
[[Image:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i)
|

* When a word have more than one consonants, vowels are allowed to be dropped (unvocalised).
* Diphthongs are just sequences of vowels, except they are not allowed to be dropped.
* Diphthongs will always be vocalised, and the second vowel of diphthong is carried by letter ا.
* For the details, please read the [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|rablermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with rablermorna as described at [[Arabic_Orthography]], and an online transliteration tool is here: https://vitovan.com/rablermorna-transliteration/
|}
==References==
<references/>

File:xinlermorna-preview-V0.6.png

2019-10-09T03:05:57Z

Vitno: This is the xinlermorna preview, the corresponding latin is: pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri

This is the xinlermorna preview, the corresponding latin is:

pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri

File:xinlermorna-V0.6.pdf

2019-10-09T03:03:55Z

Vitno: XINLERMORNA Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation upgrade xinlermorna 0.5 -> 0.6 - change y from अँ to अ, and reserve the inherent vowel /ə/ as y - Consonants lacking vowel in between MUST join - improve Anusvara us...

XINLERMORNA

Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation

upgrade xinlermorna 0.5 -> 0.6

- change y from अँ to अ, and reserve the inherent vowel /ə/ as y
- Consonants lacking vowel in between MUST join
- improve Anusvara useage scenario detail

File:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf

2019-10-07T11:30:43Z

Vitno: Vitno uploaded a new version of File:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf

RABLERMORNA

Arabic Orthography for Lojban based on Arabic alphabet

File:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf

2019-10-07T11:22:24Z

Vitno: Vitno uploaded a new version of File:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf

RABLERMORNA

Arabic Orthography for Lojban based on Arabic alphabet

Lojban orthographies

2019-10-07T07:03:14Z

Vitno: add rablermorna transliteration tool

{{See also|Alternate orthographies}}
{{See also|punctuation}}

{| class="wikitable" style="width: 1400px"
| Name
! scope="col" style="width: 580px; vertical-align: top" | Text Sample
! scope="col" style="width: 500px;" | Rules
! scope="col" style="width: 300px;" | Comments
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard orthography
| le fasnu

le fonxa cu sanga .i la .alis goi ko'a frati la'edi'u lenu cpacu le fonxa .i ko'a kerlo ganse lu coi. .alis. .i mi du la rik. .i .a'o do kanro li'u .i lu coidoi rik. .i .ia mi kanro .i .a'o do go'i li'u .i lu .ia .i mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la zedjed. poi balvi jibni .i .a'o mi'o te tigni li'u

.i ko'a spusku lu ko denpa .i mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste .y .y .y .i mi zifre .i .au mi kansa .i ma tcika li'u

.i la rik. goi ko'e spusku lu mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la xacac. .i .au do djica cuxna da poi fasnu .i pei skina .i pei zgike tigni .i pei xajmi tigni .i pei draci .i pei dansu li'u

.i la .alis. spusku lu mi nelci loi zgike draci .i .i'a .au la lemizerABL. se tigni ca ta .i mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Rapprochement orthography
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse lu Coi Alis. I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro lihu. I lu Coidoi Rik. I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi lihu. I lu, ia. I mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni lihu.

I koha spusku lu Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika lihu.

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku lu Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina. I pei zgike tigni. I pei hajmi tigni. I pei draci. I pei dansu. lihu.

I la Alis, spusku lu Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizer'abl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u.
|
| This orthography was suggested as a new orthography for the common Loglan/Lojban language, in the event of a rapproachment between LLG and TLI. The rapproachment never took place, and the orthography has only been used on the Lojban mailing list, by a couple of people.<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cyrillic orthography
| лэ фасну

лэ фонха шу санга .и ла .алис гои ко'а фрати ла'эди'у лэну шпашу лэ фонха .и ко'а кэрло гансэ лу шои. .алис. .и ми ду ла рик. .и .а'о до канро ли'у .и лу шоидои рик. .и .иа ми канро .и а'о до го'и ли'у

.и лу .иа,.и ми джиша лону джуно лэну до ба канса ми лэ густа кэ ванши санми ша ла зэджэд. пои балви жибни .и .а'о ми'о тэ тигни ли'у .и ко'а спуску лу ко дэнпа .и ми нитшу лэну шатлу лэми дэтри листэ .ъ .ъ .ъ
.и ми зифрэ .и .ау ми канса .и ма тшика ли'у

.и ла рик. гои ко'э спуску лу ми ба шпэду ло густа жубмэ ша ла хашаш. .и .ау до джиша
шухна да пои фасну .и пэи скина .и пэи згикэ тигни .и пэи хажми тигни .и пэи драши .и пэи дансу ли'у

.и ла .алис. спуску лу ми нэлши лои згикэ драши .и .и'а.ау ла лэмизэрАБЛ. сэ тигни
ша та .и ми нэлши лои ну дансу ли'у
| https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| Used in a Russian brochure about Lojban that Bob LeChevalier handed out during a visit to Russia.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Tengwar orthography
| [[File:le-fasnu-tengwar.gif]]
| Mentioned briefly in the CLL: https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| An orthography with the Tengwar of Feanor, a fictional writing system invented by J. R. R. Tolkien.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European (Arnt Richard Johansen version)
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha, frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse «Coi Alis! I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro.» I «Coidoi Rik! I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi.» I, «Ia. I mi djica lonu djuno, lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni.»

I koha spusku «Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika?»

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku «Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina? I pei zgike tigni? I pei hajmi tigni? I pei draci? I pei dansu?»

I la Alis, spusku «Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizerábl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu.»
|
| Arnt Richard Johansen: "This is an example of how Lojban might look if it was written with the same conventions as the European natural languages."<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Alice in Wonderland orthography
|
ni'o ca lo nu .abu cusku lo di'u valsi kei lo jamfu be .abu cu sakli .i ba zi ku lo nu jaurjanli zo'u: .abu jinru lo silna djacu fe'e co'u lo firji'o .i pa moi sidbo fa lo nu .abu ba'o farlu lo xamsi .i «lu va'o la'e di'u mi ka'e xrukla fu lo trene —sei .abu sezysku— li'u» (to la .alis. pu klama lo xamsi korbi pa roi lo nunjmive gi'e ja'e bo jinvi lo du'u ro pagbu be lo glico korbi cu se zvati so'o jinru minji noi nenri lo xamsi ku'o .e so'o verba noi kakpa lo canre lo loldi lo mudri canpa ku'o .e lo porsi be fi lo xotli be'o .e lo trene tcana noi trixe py toi)
| Equivalent to the standard orthography with the following additions:
* '''lu''' and '''li'u''' are always written '''«lu''' and '''li'u»'''
* '''to''' and '''toi''' are written '''(to''' and '''toi)'''
* '''sei''' clauses are surrounded by em dashes, e.g. '''—sei la .alis. cu cusku—'''
* words following '''ba'e''' are italicized, e.g. '''na ba'e ''mutce'' lo ka cizra'''
| Used in works such as Alice in Wonderland, Snow White and The Wizard of Oz.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cowan's [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9205/msg00000.html alternative orthography]
| mi na certu le se zajbrrnatleta I kui mi coa jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu noe snada tua le la Olimpik nunjvi pevi la Tokios I saunai mi nuo zmadu zoepecaaku leni snada I tie le mulno nizyjia cu te zmadu mi le gugdrrkorea kuceo le gugdrrnafganistana kuceo le gugdrrkenia kuceo le gugdrrtrinidada kuceo le xanto denci xaskoi gugde I kui mi zmadu u,a le gugdrrlixtenctaine I lenu go,i cu pluka nuzba I zmadu pluka fao le nuo nu le gugdrrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la Olimpik
| The alternative orthography makes the following substitutions.

1) The letter x is replaced in all uses by h. It is useful to emphasize
here that this does not represent a change in pronunciation.

2) The diphthong au is replaced by ao.

3) The apostrophe, which in the standard orthography is used only between
vowels, is replaced in the following ways:

3a) In a'a a'e a'u e'a e'e e'o e'u o'a o'e o'o o'u,
it is dropped, producing aa ae au ea ee eo eu oa oe oo ou.

3b) In a'i a'o e'i o'i, it is replaced by comma,
producing a,i a,o e,i o,i.

3c) In i'a i'e i'i i'o i'u u'a u'e u'i u'o u'u, it is
dropped, producing ia ie ii io iu ua ue ui uo uu; except that
when appearing stand-alone, and in names and borrowings,
it is replaced by comma, producing i,a i,e i,i i,o i,u
u,a u,e u,i u,o u,u.

4) Capitalization is used for the first letter of names, and for the cmavo
".i", which is written "I".

5) Periods before words are dropped.

6) Periods after words are replaced by comma. This comma cannot be confused
with the comma of 3b and 3c, because that cannot appear at the end of a word.
However, periods at the end of names are dropped.

7) Syllabic r l m n are written rr ll mm nn, and need not be set off by
comma.

8) Other uses of comma are retained. When doubt arises whether a comma
represents a voiced or a voiceless glide, the voiceless glide is preferred.

9) Stress is indicated by an apostrophe following the vowel of the stressed
syllable.
| Cowan: "Obviously, the alternative orthography is much more "context-sensitive" than the standard orthography. Two consecutive vowels in the standard orthography always represent a diphthong; in the alternative orthography, they may represent a diphthong, two syllables with a voiceless glide, or two syllables with a voiced glide, depending on the particular two vowels and on the kind of word in which they appear. On the other hand, thedifference between syllabic and consonantal r l m n is clearly marked in the alternative orthography."
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Diacritical orthography
| ŭa la .dòrotis. cu spusku zo ĭe lo tciŭaŭa
|
* The glide versions of '''u''' and '''i''' are written '''ŭ''' and '''ĭ''' respectively.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
| This orthography can easily be combined with other orthographies.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European 2
| Na ku la `Loglan` cu jai bau casnu. `I kuhi zo «zuhi» jaha drani. `I lo ka ni la Jboguhe cu cmalu cu banzuni lo nu sohe nu tavla cu nu tavla zuhi.
|
* The glottal stop is written '''`'''. cmevla are surrounded by '''`''' and can be capitalized, e.g. '''la `Djan`'''
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, comma can be used as is common in many european languages: '''Mi rinsa do, noi pendo mi.'''
* The first letter of every sentence (almost always '''.i''') is capitalized: '''`I mi tugni.'''
* The apostrophe ' is written '''h'''.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard Lojban orthography with punctuation hybrid
|
.i ze'a pi ro lo nunkei, la noltruni'u no roi de'a damba lo drata kelci gi'e no roi de'a krixa «lu ko lo stedu ta vimcu li'u», ja «lu ko lo stedu tu vimcu li'u». .i lo se dapma be ny cu se pifygau lo sonci, noi li'a de'a bargu. .i ba za lo cacra be li ji'i pi mu, ge no bargu cu zvati, gi ro lo kelci po'u na'e bo la noltrunau, ja la noltruni'u, ja la .àlis. cu pinfu gi'e se dapma fi lo nu se selmi'ecatra. .i ba bo la noltruni'u cu tatpi cliva gi'e cusku fi la .alis. fe «lu xu do pu viska la jitfa cakyrespa li'u».

.i «lu na go'i —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— .i mi na djuno ji'a sai, lo du'u ma kau jitfa cakyrespa li'u»

.i «lu te zbasu lo jitfa cakyrespa bo stasu —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu mi pu no roi ga viska cy, gi se tavla fi cy —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu .e'e mi'o klama —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— .i ba lisri cy ri do li'u»

.i la .àlis. ca lo nu cliva cadzu cu tirna lo nu la noltrunau cu lauble voksa cusku fi lo zvati fe «lu ca'e ro do se fraxu li'u». .i «lu ri'e la'e ba'e ''di'u'' xamgu li'u», se sezysku la .àlis. .i ri pu cinmo lo nu tolgei, lo nu la noltruni'u cu minde xo kau nuncatra.
|
This follows the Alice in Wonderland orthography, with the following additions:
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, while the comma is used to mark phrasal boundaries.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
* Sometimes, a separate letter or symbol is used for glottal stops so that it remains different from the full stop at the end of a sentence. A variety of methods have been tried out, from using '''q''' to mark glottal stops, to using special diacritics. Sometimes only the glottal stops that surround cmevla are replaced with something else, while words like '''.i''' remain untouched. Example: '''.i la ḳèmac̣ pu cliva.'''
| The purpose of this orthography is easier readability, which is important especially when reading longer pieces of text, while trying to retain the familiar feel of the standard orthography, which explains the lack of capitalization.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Hungarian orthography]]
|
'le fasznu

'le fonhasu szangaila .alisz.gojkohaf ratilahedihulenus pasule fonhaikoha kerlo ganszelusoj .alisz.imidula .rik.iahodo kanrolihuilusojdoj .rik.ijjami kanroiahodogohilihuilujjaimid zsisalonud zsunolenudoba kanszamile gusztake vansi szanmisala. zedzsed.poj balvi zsibniiahomihote tignilihu

'ikohasz pudazoheluko denpaimi nicsulenu satlulemi detri liszteyyyimi zifreiawmi kanszaima csikalihu

'ila .rik.gojkohesz pudazohelumibas pedulo guszta zsubmesala.hasas.iawdod zsisa suhnadapoj fasznuipejsz kinaipejz gike tigniipej hazsmi tigniipeid rasiipej danszulihu

'ila .alisz. danfulumi nelsilojz giked rasiiihaawla.lemizer abl.sze tignisataimi nelsilojnu danszulihu
|
* Sibilants work in the expected way (''c'' and ''cs'' also exist, just to be annoying).
* The vowels are the same as in the standard Lojban orthography.
* ''j'' and ''w'' are used to indicate semivowels. When these letters are doubled, they indicate initial rather than final glides.
* Lojban /'/ is indicated by ''h'' between two vowels. Lojban /x/ is denoted ''hh'' between two vowels and ''h'' elsewhere.
* As in Hungarian, 'words' are stressed on the first syllable. This is what messes up actual word boundaries so dramatically. Moreover, a word cannot begin with a consonant cluster, also like in Hungarian. An apostrophe at the beginning of a text indicates that the first syllable in it is not stressed.
|
An intentionally inconvenient orthography that divides words based on stress rather than meaning. Not intended as an improvement of the standard orthography, but may be interesting to see how it affects one's ability to read.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Devanagari orthography]]
|
पु षेहु से जुनो लेि षेहु रेंवि गिहे से झ़िझ़्नु शा ले तेम्शि बे ले नु ले ज़ेना शा झ़्मिवे वाु फ़ा ले दुहु ले ब्रादि बे ले ला त्लुंरानां. बा क्लामा रि

[[Image:xinlermorna-preview-V0.2.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri)
|
* All the inherent vowels of consonats are dropped
* letter '''अँ''' /ə̃/ is assigned the value '''/ə/''', and the diacritic form ''' ँ'''
* letter '''ष''' /ʃə/ is assigned the value '''/z/'''
* letter '''ज़''' /zə/ is assigned the value '''/ʣ/'''
* others are used as in Hindi, for the details, please read the [[:Media:xinlermorna-V0.5.pdf|xinlermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with xinlermorna as described at [[devanagari_orthography]], here's an online transliteration tool: https://vitovan.com/xinlermorna-transliteration/
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Arabic Orthography]]
|
ئ لَ ءضٍرٍتِسء شُ خبژ لٍ مضژ بً لٍ گنر سسته پً لَ ءكَنزَسء فِهٍ كنس لَ نكفمت ءخًنرِسء كُ نٍاِ تً شنگ كُهٍ ءاً لَ فتفمت ءاًمء كُ نٍاِ سپن لٍ تً شنگ إ لٍ زضن شُ شمل كِهُ لٍ نُ لٍ مضر پٍاِ زٌ كًهَ زلزب شُ ژَاِ سرش فَاِ لٍ كَ لٍ شرش شُ بور شًهُ وًهَ لٍ منل بً لِ سٍهِ
[[Image:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i)
|

* When a word have more than one consonants, vowels are allowed to be dropped (unvocalised).
* Diphthongs are just sequences of vowels, except they are not allowed to be dropped.
* Diphthongs will always be vocalised, and the second vowel of diphthong is carried by letter ا.
* For the details, please read the [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|rablermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with rablermorna as described at [[Arabic_Orthography]], and an online transliteration tool is here: https://vitovan.com/rablermorna-transliteration/
|}
==References==
<references/>

Arabic Orthography

2019-10-07T07:02:30Z

Vitno: add rablermorna transliteration tool

*.filip.:
**I thought of using Arabic letters to write Lojban.
**The consonants are pretty straightforward, especially if you use Persian rather than Arabic as a base (which adds '''g''', '''j''', '''p''', and '''tc''', of which we need the first three).
**I thought of using the existing vowel signs for the Lojban vowels. Since Arabic has only three signs compared to Lojban's six vowels, I thought of using the "doubled" signs (-n endings) for the "real" vowels and "single" signs for "close" vowels - that is, vowels which aren't the same as the standard Arabic vowel but which are sometimes represented with the same vowel sign anyway.
**This gives kasra/kasratan for '''e/i''', damma/dammatan for '''o/u''', and fathatan for '''a'''. This leaves '''y''' to go with fatha.
**I propose using alif for '''.''' since it's a glottal stop, and heh for '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>''' because of the pronunciation. I couldn't think of anything particularly good for ''',''' so I picked ''yeh with hamza''. I also need a "null" consonant for diphthongs to carry the second vowel sign; I picked `ayn.
**So here's my proposal. What do you think?
**[[Image:lojban-xrabo.png]]
***.aulun.:
****Doesn't look bad - and it seems you are using front, middle, end and single type variants of Arabic (Farsi) characters. Yet, it also seems you didn't do this by normal typing but by composing the samples by means of a graphic tool ;-) I therefore think that - different from Yiddish mode - it is a hard job to 'really use' Arabic for Lojban writing. Nevertheless, nice idea.
*****.filip.:
******I did indeed use a tool [http://www.unipad.org/ SC UniPad] which automatically shapes Arabic letters (and does RTL automatically for Hebrew, Arabic, and Syriac, too). The screenshot is from UniPad.
*******.aulun.:
********Great! Without need of extra fonts. Yet, Macintosh again excluded :[

*[[User:Vitno|la vitno]]:
** [[File:rablermorna.png|thumb]] According to the discussions above, with some extra change, I (la) assembled a RABLERMORNA as a specification here. Tt is provided as a [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|PDF file (click to download)]], and an online transliteration tool is here: https://vitovan.com/rablermorna-transliteration/ [[File:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]
** The corresponding Latin is
{{mu| ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i }}

===tcidu ji'a===
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#629
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#630
*[[xrabo lerfu lo me la .iesk. moi]]

Lojban orthographies

2019-10-07T05:14:12Z

Vitno: add rablermorna

{{See also|Alternate orthographies}}
{{See also|punctuation}}

{| class="wikitable" style="width: 1400px"
| Name
! scope="col" style="width: 580px; vertical-align: top" | Text Sample
! scope="col" style="width: 500px;" | Rules
! scope="col" style="width: 300px;" | Comments
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard orthography
| le fasnu

le fonxa cu sanga .i la .alis goi ko'a frati la'edi'u lenu cpacu le fonxa .i ko'a kerlo ganse lu coi. .alis. .i mi du la rik. .i .a'o do kanro li'u .i lu coidoi rik. .i .ia mi kanro .i .a'o do go'i li'u .i lu .ia .i mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la zedjed. poi balvi jibni .i .a'o mi'o te tigni li'u

.i ko'a spusku lu ko denpa .i mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste .y .y .y .i mi zifre .i .au mi kansa .i ma tcika li'u

.i la rik. goi ko'e spusku lu mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la xacac. .i .au do djica cuxna da poi fasnu .i pei skina .i pei zgike tigni .i pei xajmi tigni .i pei draci .i pei dansu li'u

.i la .alis. spusku lu mi nelci loi zgike draci .i .i'a .au la lemizerABL. se tigni ca ta .i mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Rapprochement orthography
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse lu Coi Alis. I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro lihu. I lu Coidoi Rik. I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi lihu. I lu, ia. I mi djica lonu djuno lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni lihu.

I koha spusku lu Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika lihu.

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku lu Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina. I pei zgike tigni. I pei hajmi tigni. I pei draci. I pei dansu. lihu.

I la Alis, spusku lu Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizer'abl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu li'u.
|
| This orthography was suggested as a new orthography for the common Loglan/Lojban language, in the event of a rapproachment between LLG and TLI. The rapproachment never took place, and the orthography has only been used on the Lojban mailing list, by a couple of people.<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cyrillic orthography
| лэ фасну

лэ фонха шу санга .и ла .алис гои ко'а фрати ла'эди'у лэну шпашу лэ фонха .и ко'а кэрло гансэ лу шои. .алис. .и ми ду ла рик. .и .а'о до канро ли'у .и лу шоидои рик. .и .иа ми канро .и а'о до го'и ли'у

.и лу .иа,.и ми джиша лону джуно лэну до ба канса ми лэ густа кэ ванши санми ша ла зэджэд. пои балви жибни .и .а'о ми'о тэ тигни ли'у .и ко'а спуску лу ко дэнпа .и ми нитшу лэну шатлу лэми дэтри листэ .ъ .ъ .ъ
.и ми зифрэ .и .ау ми канса .и ма тшика ли'у

.и ла рик. гои ко'э спуску лу ми ба шпэду ло густа жубмэ ша ла хашаш. .и .ау до джиша
шухна да пои фасну .и пэи скина .и пэи згикэ тигни .и пэи хажми тигни .и пэи драши .и пэи дансу ли'у

.и ла .алис. спуску лу ми нэлши лои згикэ драши .и .и'а.ау ла лэмизэрАБЛ. сэ тигни
ша та .и ми нэлши лои ну дансу ли'у
| https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| Used in a Russian brochure about Lojban that Bob LeChevalier handed out during a visit to Russia.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Tengwar orthography
| [[File:le-fasnu-tengwar.gif]]
| Mentioned briefly in the CLL: https://lojban.github.io/cll/3/12/
| An orthography with the Tengwar of Feanor, a fictional writing system invented by J. R. R. Tolkien.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European (Arnt Richard Johansen version)
| Le fasnu

Le fonha cu sanga. I la Alis, goi koha, frati lahedihu lenu cpacu le fonha. I koha kerlo ganse «Coi Alis! I mi du la Rik. I, aho do kanro.» I «Coidoi Rik! I, ia mi kanro. I, aho do gohi.» I, «Ia. I mi djica lonu djuno, lenu do ba kansa mi le gusta ke vanci sanmi ca la Zedjed, poi balvi jibni. I, aho miho te tigni.»

I koha spusku «Ko denpa. I mi nitcu lenu catlu lemi detri liste. Y. Y. Y. I mi zifre. I, au mi kansa. I ma tcika?»

I la Rik, goi kohe spusku «Mi ba cpedu lo gusta jubme ca la Hacac. I, au do djica cuhna da poi fasnu. I pei skina? I pei zgike tigni? I pei hajmi tigni? I pei draci? I pei dansu?»

I la Alis, spusku «Mi nelci loi zgike draci. I, iha, au la Lemizerábl, se tigni ca ta. I mi nelci loi nu dansu.»
|
| Arnt Richard Johansen: "This is an example of how Lojban might look if it was written with the same conventions as the European natural languages."<ref>http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/orthography.html</ref>
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Alice in Wonderland orthography
|
ni'o ca lo nu .abu cusku lo di'u valsi kei lo jamfu be .abu cu sakli .i ba zi ku lo nu jaurjanli zo'u: .abu jinru lo silna djacu fe'e co'u lo firji'o .i pa moi sidbo fa lo nu .abu ba'o farlu lo xamsi .i «lu va'o la'e di'u mi ka'e xrukla fu lo trene —sei .abu sezysku— li'u» (to la .alis. pu klama lo xamsi korbi pa roi lo nunjmive gi'e ja'e bo jinvi lo du'u ro pagbu be lo glico korbi cu se zvati so'o jinru minji noi nenri lo xamsi ku'o .e so'o verba noi kakpa lo canre lo loldi lo mudri canpa ku'o .e lo porsi be fi lo xotli be'o .e lo trene tcana noi trixe py toi)
| Equivalent to the standard orthography with the following additions:
* '''lu''' and '''li'u''' are always written '''«lu''' and '''li'u»'''
* '''to''' and '''toi''' are written '''(to''' and '''toi)'''
* '''sei''' clauses are surrounded by em dashes, e.g. '''—sei la .alis. cu cusku—'''
* words following '''ba'e''' are italicized, e.g. '''na ba'e ''mutce'' lo ka cizra'''
| Used in works such as Alice in Wonderland, Snow White and The Wizard of Oz.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Cowan's [http://wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9205/msg00000.html alternative orthography]
| mi na certu le se zajbrrnatleta I kui mi coa jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu noe snada tua le la Olimpik nunjvi pevi la Tokios I saunai mi nuo zmadu zoepecaaku leni snada I tie le mulno nizyjia cu te zmadu mi le gugdrrkorea kuceo le gugdrrnafganistana kuceo le gugdrrkenia kuceo le gugdrrtrinidada kuceo le xanto denci xaskoi gugde I kui mi zmadu u,a le gugdrrlixtenctaine I lenu go,i cu pluka nuzba I zmadu pluka fao le nuo nu le gugdrrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la Olimpik
| The alternative orthography makes the following substitutions.

1) The letter x is replaced in all uses by h. It is useful to emphasize
here that this does not represent a change in pronunciation.

2) The diphthong au is replaced by ao.

3) The apostrophe, which in the standard orthography is used only between
vowels, is replaced in the following ways:

3a) In a'a a'e a'u e'a e'e e'o e'u o'a o'e o'o o'u,
it is dropped, producing aa ae au ea ee eo eu oa oe oo ou.

3b) In a'i a'o e'i o'i, it is replaced by comma,
producing a,i a,o e,i o,i.

3c) In i'a i'e i'i i'o i'u u'a u'e u'i u'o u'u, it is
dropped, producing ia ie ii io iu ua ue ui uo uu; except that
when appearing stand-alone, and in names and borrowings,
it is replaced by comma, producing i,a i,e i,i i,o i,u
u,a u,e u,i u,o u,u.

4) Capitalization is used for the first letter of names, and for the cmavo
".i", which is written "I".

5) Periods before words are dropped.

6) Periods after words are replaced by comma. This comma cannot be confused
with the comma of 3b and 3c, because that cannot appear at the end of a word.
However, periods at the end of names are dropped.

7) Syllabic r l m n are written rr ll mm nn, and need not be set off by
comma.

8) Other uses of comma are retained. When doubt arises whether a comma
represents a voiced or a voiceless glide, the voiceless glide is preferred.

9) Stress is indicated by an apostrophe following the vowel of the stressed
syllable.
| Cowan: "Obviously, the alternative orthography is much more "context-sensitive" than the standard orthography. Two consecutive vowels in the standard orthography always represent a diphthong; in the alternative orthography, they may represent a diphthong, two syllables with a voiceless glide, or two syllables with a voiced glide, depending on the particular two vowels and on the kind of word in which they appear. On the other hand, thedifference between syllabic and consonantal r l m n is clearly marked in the alternative orthography."
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Diacritical orthography
| ŭa la .dòrotis. cu spusku zo ĭe lo tciŭaŭa
|
* The glide versions of '''u''' and '''i''' are written '''ŭ''' and '''ĭ''' respectively.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
| This orthography can easily be combined with other orthographies.
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| European 2
| Na ku la `Loglan` cu jai bau casnu. `I kuhi zo «zuhi» jaha drani. `I lo ka ni la Jboguhe cu cmalu cu banzuni lo nu sohe nu tavla cu nu tavla zuhi.
|
* The glottal stop is written '''`'''. cmevla are surrounded by '''`''' and can be capitalized, e.g. '''la `Djan`'''
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, comma can be used as is common in many european languages: '''Mi rinsa do, noi pendo mi.'''
* The first letter of every sentence (almost always '''.i''') is capitalized: '''`I mi tugni.'''
* The apostrophe ' is written '''h'''.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| Standard Lojban orthography with punctuation hybrid
|
.i ze'a pi ro lo nunkei, la noltruni'u no roi de'a damba lo drata kelci gi'e no roi de'a krixa «lu ko lo stedu ta vimcu li'u», ja «lu ko lo stedu tu vimcu li'u». .i lo se dapma be ny cu se pifygau lo sonci, noi li'a de'a bargu. .i ba za lo cacra be li ji'i pi mu, ge no bargu cu zvati, gi ro lo kelci po'u na'e bo la noltrunau, ja la noltruni'u, ja la .àlis. cu pinfu gi'e se dapma fi lo nu se selmi'ecatra. .i ba bo la noltruni'u cu tatpi cliva gi'e cusku fi la .alis. fe «lu xu do pu viska la jitfa cakyrespa li'u».

.i «lu na go'i —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— .i mi na djuno ji'a sai, lo du'u ma kau jitfa cakyrespa li'u»

.i «lu te zbasu lo jitfa cakyrespa bo stasu —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu mi pu no roi ga viska cy, gi se tavla fi cy —sei la .àlis. cu cusku— li'u»

.i «lu .e'e mi'o klama —sei la noltruni'u cu cusku— .i ba lisri cy ri do li'u»

.i la .àlis. ca lo nu cliva cadzu cu tirna lo nu la noltrunau cu lauble voksa cusku fi lo zvati fe «lu ca'e ro do se fraxu li'u». .i «lu ri'e la'e ba'e ''di'u'' xamgu li'u», se sezysku la .àlis. .i ri pu cinmo lo nu tolgei, lo nu la noltruni'u cu minde xo kau nuncatra.
|
This follows the Alice in Wonderland orthography, with the following additions:
* Dot and comma are used as punctuation. Dots end sentences, while the comma is used to mark phrasal boundaries.
* Stress, when shown, is always marked using either a grave or acute accent, and never via capitalization, e.g. '''dòrotis'''
* Sometimes, a separate letter or symbol is used for glottal stops so that it remains different from the full stop at the end of a sentence. A variety of methods have been tried out, from using '''q''' to mark glottal stops, to using special diacritics. Sometimes only the glottal stops that surround cmevla are replaced with something else, while words like '''.i''' remain untouched. Example: '''.i la ḳèmac̣ pu cliva.'''
| The purpose of this orthography is easier readability, which is important especially when reading longer pieces of text, while trying to retain the familiar feel of the standard orthography, which explains the lack of capitalization.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Hungarian orthography]]
|
'le fasznu

'le fonhasu szangaila .alisz.gojkohaf ratilahedihulenus pasule fonhaikoha kerlo ganszelusoj .alisz.imidula .rik.iahodo kanrolihuilusojdoj .rik.ijjami kanroiahodogohilihuilujjaimid zsisalonud zsunolenudoba kanszamile gusztake vansi szanmisala. zedzsed.poj balvi zsibniiahomihote tignilihu

'ikohasz pudazoheluko denpaimi nicsulenu satlulemi detri liszteyyyimi zifreiawmi kanszaima csikalihu

'ila .rik.gojkohesz pudazohelumibas pedulo guszta zsubmesala.hasas.iawdod zsisa suhnadapoj fasznuipejsz kinaipejz gike tigniipej hazsmi tigniipeid rasiipej danszulihu

'ila .alisz. danfulumi nelsilojz giked rasiiihaawla.lemizer abl.sze tignisataimi nelsilojnu danszulihu
|
* Sibilants work in the expected way (''c'' and ''cs'' also exist, just to be annoying).
* The vowels are the same as in the standard Lojban orthography.
* ''j'' and ''w'' are used to indicate semivowels. When these letters are doubled, they indicate initial rather than final glides.
* Lojban /'/ is indicated by ''h'' between two vowels. Lojban /x/ is denoted ''hh'' between two vowels and ''h'' elsewhere.
* As in Hungarian, 'words' are stressed on the first syllable. This is what messes up actual word boundaries so dramatically. Moreover, a word cannot begin with a consonant cluster, also like in Hungarian. An apostrophe at the beginning of a text indicates that the first syllable in it is not stressed.
|
An intentionally inconvenient orthography that divides words based on stress rather than meaning. Not intended as an improvement of the standard orthography, but may be interesting to see how it affects one's ability to read.
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Devanagari orthography]]
|
पु षेहु से जुनो लेि षेहु रेंवि गिहे से झ़िझ़्नु शा ले तेम्शि बे ले नु ले ज़ेना शा झ़्मिवे वाु फ़ा ले दुहु ले ब्रादि बे ले ला त्लुंरानां. बा क्लामा रि

[[Image:xinlermorna-preview-V0.2.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri)
|
* All the inherent vowels of consonats are dropped
* letter '''अँ''' /ə̃/ is assigned the value '''/ə/''', and the diacritic form ''' ँ'''
* letter '''ष''' /ʃə/ is assigned the value '''/z/'''
* letter '''ज़''' /zə/ is assigned the value '''/ʣ/'''
* others are used as in Hindi, for the details, please read the [[:Media:xinlermorna-V0.5.pdf|xinlermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with xinlermorna as described at [[devanagari_orthography]], here's an online transliteration tool: https://vitovan.com/xinlermorna-transliteration/
|
|- style="vertical-align: top"
| [[Arabic Orthography]]
|
ئ لَ ءضٍرٍتِسء شُ خبژ لٍ مضژ بً لٍ گنر سسته پً لَ ءكَنزَسء فِهٍ كنس لَ نكفمت ءخًنرِسء كُ نٍاِ تً شنگ كُهٍ ءاً لَ فتفمت ءاًمء كُ نٍاِ سپن لٍ تً شنگ إ لٍ زضن شُ شمل كِهُ لٍ نُ لٍ مضر پٍاِ زٌ كًهَ زلزب شُ ژَاِ سرش فَاِ لٍ كَ لٍ شرش شُ بور شًهُ وًهَ لٍ منل بً لِ سٍهِ
[[Image:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]

(Corresponding Latin: ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i)
|

* When a word have more than one consonants, vowels are allowed to be dropped (unvocalised).
* Diphthongs are just sequences of vowels, except they are not allowed to be dropped.
* Diphthongs will always be vocalised, and the second vowel of diphthong is carried by letter ا.
* For the details, please read the [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|rablermorna specification]]
|
This is represent with rablermorna as described at [[Arabic_Orthography]], and an online transliteration tool is being made, will be available soon
|}
==References==
<references/>

Arabic Orthography

2019-10-07T05:09:39Z

Vitno: add rablermorna pic

*.filip.:
**I thought of using Arabic letters to write Lojban.
**The consonants are pretty straightforward, especially if you use Persian rather than Arabic as a base (which adds '''g''', '''j''', '''p''', and '''tc''', of which we need the first three).
**I thought of using the existing vowel signs for the Lojban vowels. Since Arabic has only three signs compared to Lojban's six vowels, I thought of using the "doubled" signs (-n endings) for the "real" vowels and "single" signs for "close" vowels - that is, vowels which aren't the same as the standard Arabic vowel but which are sometimes represented with the same vowel sign anyway.
**This gives kasra/kasratan for '''e/i''', damma/dammatan for '''o/u''', and fathatan for '''a'''. This leaves '''y''' to go with fatha.
**I propose using alif for '''.''' since it's a glottal stop, and heh for '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>''' because of the pronunciation. I couldn't think of anything particularly good for ''',''' so I picked ''yeh with hamza''. I also need a "null" consonant for diphthongs to carry the second vowel sign; I picked `ayn.
**So here's my proposal. What do you think?
**[[Image:lojban-xrabo.png]]
***.aulun.:
****Doesn't look bad - and it seems you are using front, middle, end and single type variants of Arabic (Farsi) characters. Yet, it also seems you didn't do this by normal typing but by composing the samples by means of a graphic tool ;-) I therefore think that - different from Yiddish mode - it is a hard job to 'really use' Arabic for Lojban writing. Nevertheless, nice idea.
*****.filip.:
******I did indeed use a tool [http://www.unipad.org/ SC UniPad] which automatically shapes Arabic letters (and does RTL automatically for Hebrew, Arabic, and Syriac, too). The screenshot is from UniPad.
*******.aulun.:
********Great! Without need of extra fonts. Yet, Macintosh again excluded :[

*[[User:Vitno|la vitno]]:
** [[File:rablermorna.png|thumb]] According to the discussions above, with some extra change, I (la) assembled a RABLERMORNA as a specification here. Tt is provided as a [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|PDF file (click to download)]], and an online transliteration tool is being made, will be available soon [[File:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]
** The corresponding Latin is
{{mu| ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i }}

===tcidu ji'a===
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#629
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#630
*[[xrabo lerfu lo me la .iesk. moi]]

Arabic Orthography

2019-10-07T05:05:21Z

Vitno: add rablermorna

*.filip.:
**I thought of using Arabic letters to write Lojban.
**The consonants are pretty straightforward, especially if you use Persian rather than Arabic as a base (which adds '''g''', '''j''', '''p''', and '''tc''', of which we need the first three).
**I thought of using the existing vowel signs for the Lojban vowels. Since Arabic has only three signs compared to Lojban's six vowels, I thought of using the "doubled" signs (-n endings) for the "real" vowels and "single" signs for "close" vowels - that is, vowels which aren't the same as the standard Arabic vowel but which are sometimes represented with the same vowel sign anyway.
**This gives kasra/kasratan for '''e/i''', damma/dammatan for '''o/u''', and fathatan for '''a'''. This leaves '''y''' to go with fatha.
**I propose using alif for '''.''' since it's a glottal stop, and heh for '''<nowiki>'</nowiki>''' because of the pronunciation. I couldn't think of anything particularly good for ''',''' so I picked ''yeh with hamza''. I also need a "null" consonant for diphthongs to carry the second vowel sign; I picked `ayn.
**So here's my proposal. What do you think?
**[[Image:lojban-xrabo.png]]
***.aulun.:
****Doesn't look bad - and it seems you are using front, middle, end and single type variants of Arabic (Farsi) characters. Yet, it also seems you didn't do this by normal typing but by composing the samples by means of a graphic tool ;-) I therefore think that - different from Yiddish mode - it is a hard job to 'really use' Arabic for Lojban writing. Nevertheless, nice idea.
*****.filip.:
******I did indeed use a tool [http://www.unipad.org/ SC UniPad] which automatically shapes Arabic letters (and does RTL automatically for Hebrew, Arabic, and Syriac, too). The screenshot is from UniPad.
*******.aulun.:
********Great! Without need of extra fonts. Yet, Macintosh again excluded :[

*[[User:Vitno|la vitno]]:
** According to the discussions above, with some extra change, I (la) assembled a RABLERMORNA as a specification here. Tt is provided as a [[:Media:rablermorna-V0.1.pdf|PDF file (click to download)]], and an online transliteration tool is being made, will be available soon [[File:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png|thumb]]
** The corresponding Latin is
{{mu| ni'o la .dorotis. cu xabju lo midju be lo ganra sastu'a pe la .kanzas. fi'o kansa la nakfamti .xenris. ku noi te cange ku'o .e la fetfamti .em. ku noi speni lo te cange .i lo zdani cu cmalu ki'u lo nu lo mudri poi zy ke'a zilzba cu jai sarcu fai lo ka lo carce cu bevri ce'u ve'a lo minli be li so'i }}

===tcidu ji'a===
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#629
*http://jbotcan.org/ideas/#630
*[[xrabo lerfu lo me la .iesk. moi]]

File:rablermorna-preview-V0.1.png

2019-10-07T05:02:15Z

Vitno:

2019-09-20T01:54:42Z

File:xinlermorna-V0.2.pdf

2019-09-20T01:54:06Z

Vitno: XINLERMORNA Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation

XINLERMORNA

Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation

devanagari orthography

2019-09-20T01:14:19Z

Vitno: Add xinlermorna title

''I created a very, very experimental Devanagiri orthography. Until I get an image up, I will describe it here:''

The syllabic script is abandoned. So are the letters 'ei', 'ai', 'ou' and 'au'. Vowel marks now form dipthongs. The sound for retroflex 'sh' is used for Lojban 'j'. The aspirated stops are dropped. Double line for capitalization, 'aha' for full stop and other symbols unchanged. (I think writing an apostrophe would be pretty hard, though...)

I'm currently making a graphic that will map Lojban to Devanagari, one-to-one, and I'll add a link here soon.

''A Devanagari orthography has been discussed on the list. See [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1323,] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1324, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1341''

Since] the topic is pretty old there, I think I'll continue the discussion here.

Yes, indeed, the "unwritten vowel" is a schwa, just like Lojban y. However, it would be much more useful in to have it represent Lojban "a" in this orthography. Now, to write a conjuct consonant starting with r that doesn't have an equivalent in an Indic language, the problem is easily solved by "r" sign (like a hook on top) Others aren't so simple.

The suggestion for using ph for Lojban "f" and bh for Lojban "v" was a good one.

Dipthongs, on second thought, would be better written, (also as suggested on the list) using the available dipthongs. The Devanagari diphthong "ai", although beginning with a schwa, can be used for Lojban "ai". Indeed, all diphtongs in Lojban are taken care of save "ii" and "uu". If we were using an orthogaphy like Kannada or Telugu, the solution for this would be quite simple: use the existing letters for long "i" and long "u". Unfortunately, Devanagari has the fomer, but not the latter, so to be consistent, we must use the "initial form" of each -with- the diacritic on the vowel.

''Maybe I missed this in the discussion, but when I studied Sanskrit, there certainly was a letter (and a diacritic) for long-u, as well as long-i. What I don't see, though, is a diphthong for '''oi'''.''(Because /o/ is already a diphthong in Sanskrit, the short form of /au/. pc)'' As to the other falling diphthongs, would you write them with semivowels w/y instead of vowels? And are we using visarga for apostrophe, as I would think should be obvious? --mi'e mark. Eep, it looks like some of what's said there was by '''me'''. I should read it first.''

::Bap!:: I was thehink about 'ei'. Sorry. Yes, you can write the other falling dipthongs with semivowels. Hm... and I never noticed '''oi''' either. What about '''eu'''? Same problem. ''(Exactly; /e/ is short /ai/. pc)'' And the visarga is logical for the apostrophe. Wouldn't the danda be logical for the full stop? And the puurNaviraama for the comma might work too.

Make c into Lojban c and ch into Lojban tc, and j into Lojban j and jh into Lojban dj, Devanagari "h" into Lojban x, and all you have to worry about is punctuation. Now a full stop could be indicated using "aha", but as I said earlier, the "'" becomes a problem. So does capitalisation and the comma, because none of the existing Devanagari fonts I've seen so far have anything equivalent to those symbols. Any suggestions?

(Was this in the earlier messages? Transcribing English and Arabic and whatever, modern Hindi uses dots creatively: I remember dotted /j/ for /z/ -- and monolinguals saying things like /dijaster/ and /sijors/-- a brand of ciggyboos. pc)

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Whoever was working on this, if you could describe this orthography in terms of the Unicode Devanagari code chart at: [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf] then a [[yudit|yudit]] keymap can be made very easily, and then pictures can be made even easier. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay Kominek]]

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[[File:xinlermorna.png]]

I just assembled a Devanagari Orthography for Lojban, for the consistency of the Devanagari visual appearance, it is provided as PDF file:

[[Media:xinlermorna-V0.1.pdf]]

And here is a preview:

[[File:xinlermorna-preview-V0.1.png]]

the corresponding latin is:

pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri

File:xinlermorna.png

2019-09-20T01:13:35Z

Vitno: "xinlermorna" in xinlermorna

"xinlermorna" in xinlermorna

devanagari orthography

2019-09-20T01:09:07Z

Vitno: Add xinlermorna

''I created a very, very experimental Devanagiri orthography. Until I get an image up, I will describe it here:''

The syllabic script is abandoned. So are the letters 'ei', 'ai', 'ou' and 'au'. Vowel marks now form dipthongs. The sound for retroflex 'sh' is used for Lojban 'j'. The aspirated stops are dropped. Double line for capitalization, 'aha' for full stop and other symbols unchanged. (I think writing an apostrophe would be pretty hard, though...)

I'm currently making a graphic that will map Lojban to Devanagari, one-to-one, and I'll add a link here soon.

''A Devanagari orthography has been discussed on the list. See [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1323,] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1324, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1341''

Since] the topic is pretty old there, I think I'll continue the discussion here.

Yes, indeed, the "unwritten vowel" is a schwa, just like Lojban y. However, it would be much more useful in to have it represent Lojban "a" in this orthography. Now, to write a conjuct consonant starting with r that doesn't have an equivalent in an Indic language, the problem is easily solved by "r" sign (like a hook on top) Others aren't so simple.

The suggestion for using ph for Lojban "f" and bh for Lojban "v" was a good one.

Dipthongs, on second thought, would be better written, (also as suggested on the list) using the available dipthongs. The Devanagari diphthong "ai", although beginning with a schwa, can be used for Lojban "ai". Indeed, all diphtongs in Lojban are taken care of save "ii" and "uu". If we were using an orthogaphy like Kannada or Telugu, the solution for this would be quite simple: use the existing letters for long "i" and long "u". Unfortunately, Devanagari has the fomer, but not the latter, so to be consistent, we must use the "initial form" of each -with- the diacritic on the vowel.

''Maybe I missed this in the discussion, but when I studied Sanskrit, there certainly was a letter (and a diacritic) for long-u, as well as long-i. What I don't see, though, is a diphthong for '''oi'''.''(Because /o/ is already a diphthong in Sanskrit, the short form of /au/. pc)'' As to the other falling diphthongs, would you write them with semivowels w/y instead of vowels? And are we using visarga for apostrophe, as I would think should be obvious? --mi'e mark. Eep, it looks like some of what's said there was by '''me'''. I should read it first.''

::Bap!:: I was thehink about 'ei'. Sorry. Yes, you can write the other falling dipthongs with semivowels. Hm... and I never noticed '''oi''' either. What about '''eu'''? Same problem. ''(Exactly; /e/ is short /ai/. pc)'' And the visarga is logical for the apostrophe. Wouldn't the danda be logical for the full stop? And the puurNaviraama for the comma might work too.

Make c into Lojban c and ch into Lojban tc, and j into Lojban j and jh into Lojban dj, Devanagari "h" into Lojban x, and all you have to worry about is punctuation. Now a full stop could be indicated using "aha", but as I said earlier, the "'" becomes a problem. So does capitalisation and the comma, because none of the existing Devanagari fonts I've seen so far have anything equivalent to those symbols. Any suggestions?

(Was this in the earlier messages? Transcribing English and Arabic and whatever, modern Hindi uses dots creatively: I remember dotted /j/ for /z/ -- and monolinguals saying things like /dijaster/ and /sijors/-- a brand of ciggyboos. pc)

----

Whoever was working on this, if you could describe this orthography in terms of the Unicode Devanagari code chart at: [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0900.pdf] then a [[yudit|yudit]] keymap can be made very easily, and then pictures can be made even easier. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay Kominek]]

----

I just assembled a Devanagari Orthography for Lojban, for the consistency of the Devanagari visual appearance, it is provided as PDF file:

[[Media:xinlermorna-V0.1.pdf]]

And here is a preview:

[[File:xinlermorna-preview-V0.1.png]]

the corresponding latin is:

pu ze'u se djuno lei ze'u renvi gi'e se jijnu ca le temci be le nu le dzena ca jmive vau fa le du'u le bradi be le la tlunranan. ba klama ri

File:xinlermorna-preview-V0.1.png

2019-09-20T01:02:55Z

File:xinlermorna-V0.1.pdf

2019-09-20T00:59:33Z

Vitno: XINLERMORNA Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation

XINLERMORNA

Devanagari Orthography for Lojban based on Hindi pronunciation