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		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi</title>
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		<updated>2023-06-11T09:21:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 12 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax&lt;br /&gt;
VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge forthe product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 11 - March 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as lalojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logicalhuman language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of your total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement. See news below regarding contributions and donations via credit card, or via checks drawn on non-US banks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 350. We now have over 650 people on our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category. Balances reflect contributions received thru 4 April 1990. Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only Level R - Review Copy for Publications&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 0 - le lojbo karni only - $5 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 1 - le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $15 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 2 - Level 1 materials and baselined/final products - $20 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 3 - Level 2 materials and lesson materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue contains a complete news section. As noted below, those of you receiving Ju&#039;i Lobypli will no longer be receiving le lojbo karni, since the contents will be redundant. Also below is a series of articles relating in some way to the value of Lojban. Athelstan and Bob compare Lojban and Esperanto. Robert Gorsch reports on his Semiotics courseat St. Mary&#039;s College in California, the first academic course significantly incorporating Lojban into its curriculum.His bibliography, and Ralph Dumain&#039;s annotated bibliography on language and thought, are included. There is also anarticle by David Morrow on using Lojban in writing fiction, Lojban text is by Michael Helsem, including the first samples of original Lojban poetry, and a variety of letters and responses. ko xamgu lifri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News							       --3&lt;br /&gt;
   Finances, 1989 Financial Report, Master Card/Visa Now Accepted--3&lt;br /&gt;
   1990	Plans set by la	lojbangirz. Board - Textbook, Dictionary, LogFest, Logo, Grants	  --5&lt;br /&gt;
   1990	Priorities					       --6&lt;br /&gt;
   Research and	Development - Grammar, Parser Status, pc to Visit DC, Transformational Grammar --6&lt;br /&gt;
   Growth and Publicity	- Continued Growth, International Publicity, Computer Networks	  --9&lt;br /&gt;
   Education - New Classes Starting			      --10&lt;br /&gt;
   International News					      --10&lt;br /&gt;
   Products and	Prices - New Lojban Tape, Hypercard Mac	LogFlash, lujvo-Making Program,&lt;br /&gt;
      Papers Offered, 3	1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes,	Book Plans, LogFlash Porting  --11&lt;br /&gt;
   News	(with Comments)	About the Institute		      --15&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto and Lojban - How many	rules are enough? by Athelstan--16&lt;br /&gt;
   On Comparing	Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier      --20&lt;br /&gt;
An Introductory	College	Course in Semiotics Using Lojban, by Robert Gorsch --25&lt;br /&gt;
   Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier	  --26&lt;br /&gt;
   Course Outline and Bibliography			      --33&lt;br /&gt;
Bibliography on	Language and Thought, by Ralph Dumain	      --36&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing, by David C.	Morrow--39&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska, all by Michael Helsem		      --40&lt;br /&gt;
   Self-Description, haiku, 3 limericks, and Free Verse	      --41&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			      --45&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Arthur Brown, jyjym., Eric Williams --56&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Reprints from The Washington Post and San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner, Reference Outline of Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
      Grammar, Some Proposed Logos&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to remind people that, if you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files(including things for JL publication) to Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can join the Lojban news-group by sending your mailing address to:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and traffic to the news-group can be sent to:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. Forexample, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly numberof you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
IMPORTANT&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have not received JL10 (and expected it), please let us know. JL10 and LK11 were mailed in mid-December,but there are still some people known not to have received it. If you are one, we&#039;ll resend the issue. If you&#039;re not sure, JL10 contained discussions of Lojban poetry and a lot of Lojban text, including Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki&#039;s The Open Window. We apologize to those of you who did not hear from us for a long while due to the very slow mail (and our other, more normal, delays).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our finances suffered a significant blow due to the serious delays in US Postal delivery of JL10. We paid for the issue in December, but have not received income to cover the cost until this month. Even now, we have money in the bank primarily because of Jeff Prothero, and Nora and me, each maintaining balances over $1000, thus in effect supporting la lojbangirz. via interest-free loans. I don&#039;t like this situation, partly because Nora and I don&#039;t have the money to spare. But I also dislike the conflict of interest of being the principal financial source at the same time that I&#039;m trying to serve your interests as President of la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some good decisions have resulted from our financial pain, though. We have now set up a credit account with our printer, who is our largest expense. And we have advanced the publication date for a Lojban textbook and dictionary(you&#039;ll see why this helps our finances in a little bit).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The la lojbangirz. Board has decided to add an incentive for those who are paying for materials and maintaining a positive balance, as well as for those who have contributed to the textbook development by studying the language now.Thus, starting 1 April, if your account balance is positive, we will be giving a 20% discount on orders for software,the cassette tape (see below), and our books when they are published, provided that either you prepay your order (or have enough in your balance to cover the order) or you are an active level 3 subscriber.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you contributing what you feel the Lojban materials are worth to you? Please help!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         1989 Financial    Report&lt;br /&gt;
                        The    Logical    Language Group,    Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
                         (Numbers rounded to nearest $)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Contributions            $7988&lt;br /&gt;
    Donations            $7633&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                  $50&lt;br /&gt;
                     ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Income               $15671&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Printing and Publications    $5644&lt;br /&gt;
    Non-administrative Postage    $1904&lt;br /&gt;
    Office Supplies             $494&lt;br /&gt;
    LogFest    89             $394&lt;br /&gt;
    Advertising/Publicity/Noreascon    III$1603&lt;br /&gt;
    Telephone            $1240&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                 $192&lt;br /&gt;
    Administrative Expenses    $519&lt;br /&gt;
    Legal Expenses           $4100&lt;br /&gt;
                ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Total Admin. &amp;amp; Legal   $4619           29% of expenses&lt;br /&gt;
                      _______&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Expenses               $16090&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Loss             (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For comparison:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                      1988 Summary (Incorporated + Unincorporated)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            Income               $6776.72&lt;br /&gt;
            Expenses               $8605.97&lt;br /&gt;
               including Administrative    Expenses:&lt;br /&gt;
               $452.42 or 7% of    income&lt;br /&gt;
            Net    Loss             ($1829.25)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assets                 Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cash in    bank account   $666.02     Subscriber Refundable Balances     ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
Undeposited checks     $189.70&lt;br /&gt;
Estimated Value    of Inventory$1260.30&lt;br /&gt;
              ________                __________&lt;br /&gt;
Net Assets          $2116.02     Net Liabilities    ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                        Estimated Net Worth      ($557.04)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscription Accounts as of 31 March 1990 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 811 names. Of these, 644 were currently active (level0 or above); the rest were either deleted by request, or because mailings were returned with no forwarding address, orare those that have asked to only receive product announcements when the textbook is ready. Known readership is about50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single subscriptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 40-50% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Thisvaries by 10-20% each mailing due to those whose balances drop below 0 and who then repay us. Only 3% of the level 0recipients have positive balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 31 March, there were 95 subscribers at level 3, 161 at level 2, 48 at level 1, 327 at level 0, 11 press reviewers,and 32 at level B for a total of 676.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu lists 526&lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash 122&lt;br /&gt;
flash cards 23&lt;br /&gt;
Lessons beyond Lesson 1 88&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
54 persons have donated a total of $12935.78 since we started through 1 January 1990. During 1989, Bob &amp;amp; Nora donated $3203.02; Jeff Prothero donated $2245.68; others donated a net of $2543.45. $4099.68 of Bob, Nora, and Jeff&#039;s donations were applied to legal bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
128 persons have net positive voluntary balances&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
478 persons have net negative voluntary balances. This is the principal cause of our worsening financial position.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Master Card/Visa Now Accepted ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have arranged to be able to accept contributions to voluntary balances and donations on your Master Card orVisa, effective immediately. This is an experimental program; we&#039;ll see how much it is used. We have to pay a fee of6% on each transaction, and will be passing that fee on to your balance. We also have to pay a minimum fee of $15.00per month for the service, even if there are no transactions; thus, our continuing this service is dependent on whetheryou use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with most mail-order charge systems, we need your card number and type, expiration date, name as it shown on thecard, and signature, to process your charge. We can accept telephone orders on your credit card if you follow it upwith a signed authorization. We have to be sure to follow the rules carefully, especially at first, because small mailorder firms are considered high risk for fraud, and are carefully watched.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope that providing this service makes it easier for some of you to contribute to your balances and/or to donate support to la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 1990 Plans set by la lojbangirz. Board ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The la lojbangirz. Board had its first meeting since LogFest to approve the above financial report, and to set the priorities for our activities during 1990. We were aided significantly by the responses to the questionnaire sent out with LK11 and JL10 (we&#039;re still interested in getting these responses if you haven&#039;t yet sent yours in).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following paragraphs discuss the major priorities that were discussed. The list of priorities is summarized at the end of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Textbook - Our numbers of active students (level 3) has topped 100, and at the current rate, will exceed 200 this year even with no textbook. Given that the current draft textbook lessons are already 300 pages long, printing costs for the year for draft lessons alone could exceed $2000. I&#039;ve gotten an estimate that would allow us to publish a textbook for probably around $3000-4000 for 1000 copies. Mailing books is also cheaper than mailing individual lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adding in postage and overhead, we will probably be charging a base price of $12-$15, with the discount mentioned above for those with positive balances; this will exceed our costs enough to help pay for our other activities. Yet it is much cheaper than the approximately $23 we have to now charge for draft lessons - and we make no money on these. We think we can break even with about 250 paid textbook sales. Can we sell that many books? That&#039;s up to all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most important, your questionnaire responses indicate that when we publish a textbook, many more of you will then start learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dictionary - Lest anyone think that they have no influence over the decision-making process in la lojbangirz., your questionnaire responses have caused a major change in our plans (alas, we&#039;ve heard from less than 30 of you, only half of last years&#039; response - but we&#039;ll take what ever feedback we get). Whereas only a few months ago, we planned not to start producing a dictionary until we had a significant body of users of the language. Linguists believe that a dictionary is supposed to describe a language as it is used, not prescribe &#039;how it&#039;s supposed to be&#039;. Many of you are apparently unconvinced of this argument, and your questionnaires indicated that you wanted the textbook AND the dictionary done prior to learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve talked to several of you who so responded. Those placing a high priority on a dictionary apparently are not waiting for a &amp;quot;Webster&#039;s Unabridged&amp;quot;; rather, you want an easy to use word-list, more complete in its definitions than our current gismu lists, and a feeling that the language is sufficiently stable that we have the confidence to publish a book instead of Xeroxed handouts. You want enough examples therein so that you can see how words are made, how place structures are determined, etc. I think we can do this much.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We had already planned to republish the gismu list later this year with better place structure definitions. We also are working hard on a good cmavo definition list, as we approach our initial baseline of the grammar. When I totalled the expected page count for gismu lists, cmavo lists, machine grammar definition, and explanatory materials on how to use these, the result was enough to compile the entire set of reference data into a book. It should take relatively little extra work to organize this book as a reference dictionary, so that is what we plan to do. The result should be available late this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dictionary, like the textbook, will be a limited first edition. We expect it to have a short life, perhaps 1-2 years, before being republished in a significantly expanded version (the first edition won&#039;t be obsolete then, but later editions will presumably be much expanded and perhaps better presented, as we learn from the first attempt). As with the textbook, we will be pushing for advance orders, due to our finances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest - LogFest 90 is scheduled for the third weekend in June this year; including the Friday and Monday for some activities. I&#039;ve added air conditioning to our main meeting rooms so that the expected larger-than-ever crowd can be comfortable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The themes for the meeting will be learning the language and getting involved. I hope to have review draft copies of the textbook by then for people to examine. We will be discussing how each of you can study Lojban on your own or with others, and Athelstan will show how easy it is to give an introductory presentation on the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will have several short sessions where people can join us in Lojban conversation, or just listen in to learn that the language CAN be spoken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most important, we intend to discuss and possibly approve the trial grammar baseline, enabling the textbook to be published and verifying that the language development truly is completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope many of you will be able to attend. As in previous years, we have sleeping room for at least a dozen people inside, and will set up tents outside as necessary (bring sleeping bags if possible). If you bring your family, they can either get involved, or go sightseeing in Washington DC. We are 2 blocks from the Metro, which runs straight into all of the attraction of the capital.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can call me for details at 703-385-0273. Next issue will include a map on how to get here, and whatever final plans have been made by then. Much of what goes on at a Logfest is determined by the interests of the people who are there. Local people come for part of the weekend, or even drop in for a few hours. We have moved the annual business meeting of la lojbangirz. to Sunday morning, when relatively few people are around, after finding that a slow-moving meeting last year disrupted the lively excitement of Logfest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is no charge to attend LogFest, but we are asking people attending to contribute perhaps $20 for the weekend, or $10 a day, to help defray food costs and other expenses. (We&#039;ll be happy to accept more - our expenses for Logfest run much higher than this. Contributions in excess of $20 will be considered donations.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logo - As part of our effort to generate publicity, several people have suggested that we adopt a logo for la lojbangirz. We&#039;ve had suggestions from several people, and especially from Jamie Bechtel and Kit Archer. We are running the sketches thus far submitted for your comments, and asking you to contribute your own ideas (or even draw them up if you can - but others can do the drawing if you have more creativity than artistic talent).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will put the question of a logo to the LogFest attendees&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grants - Now that we have our non-profit status, we will be starting to investigate possible grant opportunities. Athelstan and I have identified several possible sources or small amounts of support, and we want to find out how much work is involved in obtaining such grants before committing our limited people and money resources towards pursuing them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will be concentrating on grants that will help us improve our teaching materials, translate them into foreign languages and promote the involvement of non-U.S. Lojbanists to improve our cultural balance. We will also try to obtain grants for developing some of the ideas we&#039;ve had for using Lojban in language education, and in such classes as Robert Gorsch describes below. Finally, we will seek support for developing some of the linguistics research efforts using the language that were the original goal for the Loglan Project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will probably not seek major grants such as from the National Science Foundation at this point. We believe that we need to establish credibility as an academic effort, attract researchers who know how to get such grants, and possibly affiliate with another organization to ensure accountability. We also need to show that we can work within the academic peer review system, and of course, prove that we can manage grant money wisely. I believe that Jim Brown failed to get grants for his Loglan work after he left the University of Florida primarily because he never established this kind of outside accountability. We should do much better - we&#039;ve had a couple of years of practice now in demonstrating that we are accountable to you, our supporters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 1990 Priorities ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Board adopted the following priorities as its policy for day-to-day business activities (i.e. spending money and receiving &#039;official&#039; support). We ask that people work to support these goals. The Board recognizes, of course, that we are a volunteer-based organization and everyone should be free to work with or on the language in the way that he or she chooses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Maintenance of a stable business posture, fulfilling legal requirements (including lawsuit-related), filling orders, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# Producing timely newsletters of comparable quality to current practice.&lt;br /&gt;
# Responding to correspondents, especially submittals of Lojban text, in such a degree as to support continued self- learning. Supporting classes started by others, and Athelstan&#039;s DC-area class.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition textbook covering about half the language (the portion most used in writing and conversation), and supporting this textbook with a cassette tape.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition reference dictionary including revised, updated, and preliminary baselines of grammar, cmavo, gismu place structures, rafsi, synopsis, and additional useful materials as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preliminary research in grantsmanship leading to later decisions whether to actually seek grants.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing updated and new software and other educational materials unrelated to book publishing above, including the Lojban parser.&lt;br /&gt;
# Additional translation efforts by key people (particularly Board members).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research and Development ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The primary R&amp;amp;D activities in the last couple of months have been attempting to resolve two of the four open grammar issues discussed in the last issue: negation and attitudinal indicators.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A proposal on the latter is out for review at this writing. If you are level 3 or otherwise knowledgeable of the attitudinal issue, and want to participate in the review, let me know and I&#039;ll send a copy. The final proposal (incorporating any comments by then) will be printed in JL12, and any decision will be approved at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have much of my time in the last few months working on a thorough treatment of negation which incorporates hours of discussion among Nora, Athelstan, pc, and me. The discussion is being written somewhat in the style of the textbook lessons, with dozens of examples, and also includes explanation of logical connectives. I hope to involve as many people as possible in reviewing the result, which I hope will appear in JL12. The entirety may be too long, so I may have to abridge it or send it separately to level 3 people only - it depends on our finances, and your expressions of interest in the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Negation is likely to be the last &#039;big&#039; language issue that can be reasonably understood without knowing the language; the issues to be resolved are semantic, and thus not much dependent on Lojban&#039;s grammar and word lists. Your ability to contribute will depend more on your understanding of how negation works in natural language than on how Lojban works; the object is to make sure that we have the means to cover everything involved in negation in a logically consistent manner. The grammar of negation in Lojban is quite simple, and easily adapted once we are sure that we understand the problem. We may be trying to get linguists not otherwise involved in the language to review our results for correctness and completeness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other two big issues are tense grammar and MEX. I suspect that our tense system will be among the hardest things to teach in its entirety to new people, since so few people realize how much hidden tense structure there is in natural languages - all made open and optional in Lojban. pc, as an expert in tense logic, will be the primary reviewer of the proposal. Others will have trouble getting involved in this one; the proposal will not be written up until the textbook lessons are written, although its essence will be evident in the annotated sections of the machine grammar dealing with tense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The MEX issue is one mostly of philosophy - whether to try to make MEX comprehensive, or to make it easy to use. Until we have people skilled enough in the language to try using MEX, we won&#039;t really be able to test our design. We may have to omit the esoteric parts of MEX from the 5-year grammar baseline, or else to simply recognize that MEX grammar is likely to change after that point. (I favor the former - the need for a baseline is to ensure that there is a stable language for people to learn. If we know in advance that an area will be significantly revised, the stability is illusionary.) A possibility to be considered is that we put two competing MEX grammars into the language and to see which survives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other than writing up the proposals, the major work to be done is reflecting the changes in cmavo lists and in the machine grammar. The attitudinal proposal affects the cmavo list a lot, with no grammar changes. The negation change is primarily semantic, with minimal impact on either grammar or cmavo list. The tense proposal is a regularizing of the already radical approach that I took in my redesign two years ago; it has been taught conceptually to the DC-area class, and what remains (other than pc&#039;s verification) is to make sure that the machine grammar completely reflects the concept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The MEX decision will affect very little or quite a lot. If the status quo is deemed acceptable, there will be few changes. If there is a strong move towards an easier-to- use MEX, then the grammar will have to be substantially rewritten in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In short, things are moving along well towards our intended June decision point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Parser Status ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Taylor hasn&#039;t had a lot of time to spare for the parser, and has put his emphasis on the cmavo list instead. This isn&#039;t a problem, because most of what remains to be done is dependent on the decisions to be made in the four open areas discussed above. The parser worked fine on the text samples in JL10; what remains is to incorporate the results of the pending design changes - primarily the final tense design which is substantially embedded in the hand-coded lexer. We&#039;ve reduced the priority of the parser to make sure that we get the textbook and dictionary done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An alternative possibility for the parser has recently shown up. Doug Landauer, who along with Sheldon Linker did much of the germinal Loglan machine grammar work in the 70s has volunteered to investigate and to possibly write a parser generator especially tailored for Lojban grammar work. Key aspects - for those who know parser terminology - are that the new generator, which would replace our YACC- based program, will be able to look-ahead more than 1 &#039;token&#039; - the exact number of look-aheads hasn&#039;t yet been decided. We would also try to have the generator save tables that allow for better processing of elidable terminators.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn&#039;t clear what such a parser tool would mean to Lojban. It could allow us to make significant simplifications in the grammar, such as perhaps re- coalescing the variety of logical connectives into a smaller and easier to learn set. It would certainly allow much of the hand-coded lexer routine in the parser to be replaced by table-driven rules in the automatically- generated portion of the parser, eliminating several of the invisible &#039;machine lexemes&#039; that allow the parser to emulate human grammar analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll report next issue on whether Doug&#039;s researches of the topic have led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== pc to Visit DC ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just about the time this newsletter is mailed, pc will be visiting Bob and Nora in the DC area for a long weekend. Although he&#039;s coming for other reasons, pc has budgeted a significant amount of time for us to work together on resolving the open grammar issues. Since pc is probably the most expert of all in the combination of logic, linguistics, old Loglan design and current Lojban implementation, his review and agreement will set the tone for the decision-making to take place in June.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to going over the 4 biggies, we will also be discussing place structures of gismu, textbook plans, and the style to be used in producing the dictionary. We&#039;ll probably slip in a little Lojban conversation, too, although pc has just recently resumed studying the vocabulary after lapsing for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Transformational Grammar ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a common myth among linguists that the Loglan/Lojban project ignores and/or runs counter to the various transformational grammar theories developed by Noam Chomsky. Transformational grammar theory has dominated the field of linguistics, especially in the U.S., since shortly after Jim Brown started the Loglan project. Jim Brown lends credence to these myths by attacking some of Chomsky&#039;s ideas in the new edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contrary to this myth, the Lojban redevelopment team has tried to bring ideas in from a variety of linguistic sources, while trying to make sure the language meets whatever criteria make a natural language &#039;natural&#039; and learnable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Briefly, transformational grammar (tg) theory says that there is an underlying structure to all natural languages (called &#039;deep structure&#039;) which is often well-hidden from our conscious thought. The argument for deep structure is based on the fact that children learn language so quickly and easily, and before they understand anything about grammar, that some amount of &#039;innate grammar&#039; must be genetically coded. What we perceive as the widely varying grammars of everyday natural language are &#039;surface structures&#039; based on transformations from this innate &#039;deep grammar&#039;. These transformations are then what is actually learned when we learn language. From this theory, if Lojban is truly &#039;different&#039; from natural languages in some basic way such that tg theory does not apply, then it cannot be a natural language. Arguing in the reverse direction, if such a &#039;deep structure&#039; of Lojban can be found, and the language indeed turns out to be speakable by, and teachable to young children, then the deep structure of Lojban must be tied to that of the natural languages. This has implications for the validity of a Sapir-Whorf test, while allowing Lojban to serve as a test bed for tg theory developments. Meanwhile, the extreme simplicity of Lojban&#039;s grammar means that its consistency with tg theory may say something basic about the deep structure of natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto and most other artificial languages have generally been of no interest to tg linguists, since their grammars usually are merely simplifications of standard European language grammars that provide no useful basis for research.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pc did a simple transformational study of old Loglan back in the 1970&#039;s and found nothing unusual. Now, Lojbanist Greg Higley has been more thoroughly researching the applicability of tg theory to Lojban using the current language definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg&#039;s results are still preliminary, but he has found that the basic Lojban sentence structure is indeed consistent with tg theory. Furthermore, he says, in a recent letter to Bob, that the surface structure of Lojban is nearly transparent: &amp;quot;It is very rare for a language to have the ability to display its deep structure while maintaining grammaticalness, especially in complex sentences, but Lojban does this admirably.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg is trying to ensure that his research lives up to academic standards, and that his results will be publishable. If so, Lojban may significantly gain in credibility within the community of linguists, and the goal of using Lojban as a vehicle for experimental linguistics will be greatly forwarded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re trying to identify within our community, people with sufficient training in tg theory to assist in reviewing Greg&#039;s results, to the extent that he desires our assistance. Identify such people will also be important to us in the event that we decide to seek research support based on Greg&#039;s efforts. Let Bob know if you want to participate in reviewing Greg&#039;s work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(A good understanding of Lojban grammar and/or principles of transformational grammars will probably be vital - Greg&#039;s work so far makes very technical statements about Lojban grammar which would be hard to evaluate without such knowledge. Indeed, the sophistication of Greg&#039;s work is extremely heartening; he has demonstrated a sophisticated and thus far error-free understanding of Lojban grammar, yet is totally self-taught from the draft textbook lessons and other materials. Readers may recall that Greg skillfully found a subtle but important error in the textbook lessons, as he reported in JL10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an exciting prospect for Lojban, one which heightens our sense of contributing to our understanding of language. We&#039;ll try to have more on Greg&#039;s work in one of the next two issues of JL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Growth and Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth in the last few months has been phenomenal, especially since it is almost entirely due to word-of-mouth advertising. We&#039;ve added about 50 people since the start of the year, with new contacts averaging more than 1 every 2 days.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of these new people have joined us due to several of you giving talks to groups about Lojban, and some are due to distributions of brochures at conventions. I want to expressly thank all of you who are serving as emissaries of Lojban in this way. The list is getting too long to name every convention or talk we have collectively given; you&#039;ve ensured a Lojbanic presence at some half-dozen science fiction conventions in the last 3 months that I know of, and probably as many that I don&#039;t know about. Keep it up!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had good response following an October ad in the Mensa national bulletin donated by a Lojbanist, which has led to a follow-up article in the Mensa SIG publication &#039;Science Quest&#039;. We got a scattering of responses from around the country following Don Oldenburg&#039;s newspaper article (reprint enclosed with this issue), and the follow- up Copley News Service release, and radio interviews with various stations in the US, Canada, and United Kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The various press releases led to a contact with reporter Dominique Schroder of the French news agency ASP (their equivalent of the AP). After a pleasant several hours of interview and discussion, her story was released in several languages. It is known to have been printed (in French) in the Quebec Soleil during February. Lojbanist Andre Bergeron saw the article, contacted the paper, and convinced them to print our address a few days later, and we&#039;ve had 5 new responses (4 of them in French, leading us to test our network for multi-language correspondence support).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no reports of other publications of Dominique&#039;s story, mostly because it did not include our address, and because it would have appeared primarily in publications serving locales where we don&#039;t have a lot of existing people who would have noticed and reported it. Some of these people will eventually find us by contacting ASP, but we mostly gained international name recognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our most significant recent growth has been through the computer networks. With the assistance of Lojbanist Eric Raymond, we have an international news forum on the Inter- net/Usenet/uucp circuit, which also can tie in to Compuserve (see page 2 for instructions on how to join this group or to send messages to me). The network presence has attracted the attention of a couple of dozen new people, and more importantly has allowed us to respond quickly to people&#039;s questions. (Now all I need is a connection to the net here in DC, so I don&#039;t have to spend money on long distance bills to Eric&#039;s computer near Philadelphia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve also been able to respond to inquiries on the Usenet linguistics newsgroup &#039;sci.lang&#039; about Loglan and Lojban. We have even profited from Jim Brown&#039;s advertising efforts, as people who have bought Jim&#039;s book inquire on the net looking for others working with the language; almost invariably, people who find out that there are two groups and that our group is larger, more organized, and supports a public domain version of the language, end up choosing to study Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same effect has occurred on Compuserve, where a copy of our brochure was placed in the Foreign Language Education forum. This has brought us several new people, including some who have started using the AMRAD BBS to contact us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve gained no new people as a result, yet, but Mark Manning published an article reviewing Lojban in his science fiction &#039;fanzine&#039; Tand #2, last fall. Since the article included several misunderstandings, Mark agreed to print a rebuttal written by Athelstan and Bob, which just appeared in Tand #3 a couple of weeks ago. There is the possibility of continuing dialog in the magazine, which relies on letters of comment on previous issues for much of its content.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A high percentage of new respondents have been moving quickly from level 0 to levels 1-3, and most of them are paying for their materials. The count of level 3&#039;s has been growing at 10% per month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My only complaint is that filling orders takes a lot of time away from other Lojban activities, especially because I personalize the response to many of the people I send to with information about other Lojbanists nearby, etc. HEAR THIS! I want to continue to have THIS complaint!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Education ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve believed that Lojban has a major potential to contribute to various aspects of education. Finally, this has been proven. Dr. Robert Gorsch of St. Mary&#039;s College in California used Lojban as a major component of an intensive course in Semiotics taught during the intersession in January. The course proved popular and quite successful; a surprising number of these very bright students were not aware of Lojban OR Esperanto, or the various other attempts to invent a language throughout history. The class will be expanded to a full semester course for next school year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The course is described in detail by Dr. Gorsch below, including an outline and bibliography for others who are interested in Lojban and Semiotics (which Gorsch says has been heavily influenced by the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis), and for others who would like to develop similar courses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise, education has been a bit of a disappointment these past couple of months. After months of promises from the organizers, the New York and Boston classes are no closer to starting than last fall, when we gave talks en- route home from Worldcon. In Boston, things have been complicated by the fact that both of our organizers are unemployed and job hunting in a bad labor market; one has a new baby and no telephone making his life even more complicated; there is some evidence that things will eventually come together there. Boston people at least have a place to meet, since everyone seems to find MIT a good location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can&#039;t say what is going on in New York. The principal hang-up seems to be difficulty in finding a place that everyone is willing to travel to, and a day to meet. I&#039;ve suggested that they divide into multiple groups which study on their own and get together to interchange on a less frequent basis, or by telephone. The same suggestion might be appropriate for San Francisco and Los Angeles metro areas, which also have large, geographically disperse groups of Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Things are going much better in the self-study arena. The best evidence of this is the collection of material written by self-taught Lojbanist Michael Helsem. I&#039;m also including with his writings a sample of the feedback that we gave him, thus showing that we support those of you who try to learn Lojban on your own, and also that WE WANT YOU TO SEND YOUR ATTEMPTS AT USING THE LANGUAGE TO US, EVEN IF YOU DON&#039;T THINK THEY ARE VERY GOOD! Because Michael did so, his current Lojban is much improved. Moreover, WE learned a lot from his attempts, which will in turn improve the textbook when it comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== New Classes Starting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While New York and Boston haven&#039;t yet jelled, we&#039;ve demonstrated further viability as a language here in DC and in Blacksburg VA, where new classes are starting and are being taught by graduates of the last set of classes. This is the best sign that our teaching was successful, that those who have studied the language have enough confidence to feel that they can lead a new group up to their skill level in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan is teaching a new DC-area class, under the auspices of the University of Maryland &#039;Free University&#039; Program. This program gives the class an on-campus meeting point, coincidentally in the foreign language education building. Unlike the first class, this class is only 8 weeks long with one 2-hour session per week. The students are not expected to master the vocabulary, and only the basics of the grammar will be covered. The lowered expectation takes the pressure off both students and instructor. The class will probably be followed up with an advanced class after people have learned more of the vo- cabulary. Eight students showed up for the first meeting, with a couple of additional people who didn&#039;t show up indicating that they want to join in late.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 2nd Blacksburg class will be taught by Karen Stein starting in April, after people are recruited at a local science fiction convention and the VA Tech campus. John Hodges, who taught the first class, is struggling under a full class load and a full-time job, but will be advising Karen as needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of the international news has been covered under &#039;Growth and Publicity&#039; above. We have gained significant numbers in Canada through the ASP story and other contacts, such that there could potentially be classes or group studies organized in Vancouver, Toronto, and Quebec.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ASP story is good news to Lojbanist John Negus, in Bessas, France. John is serving as our &#039;French correspondent&#039;, agreeing to serve as a local point of contact for any new French Lojbanists. John has also been making his own attempts to recruit new people, and has written a one-page description of Lojban emphasizing its international language aspects for his own distribution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The French language version of the brochure (translated by Andre Bergeron) has now been entered onto computer, just in time to receive an &#039;acid test&#039; by being distributed to the several French-speaking respondents to the ASP article. It will receive one more review pass before being printed up in bulk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Italian language brochure (translated by Silvia Romanelli), is being typed up. After Silvia reviews it, we will be printing bulk copies of it as well. Silvia has plans to actively recruit people in the Italian city of Asti, near her home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Board member Tommy Whitlock recently visited Germany on a personal trip. We don&#039;t yet have a German brochure, and the trip occurred during a university break period, but some 50 English brochures were distributed, and Tommy made contact with a couple of Lojbanists who are linguistics students in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will be attending the 1990 World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon) in Amsterdam, which takes place the last week of August. He will arrive prepared to give several talks at the convention and to distribute brochures in the 3 languages completed (and possibly German too, if we can find a translator who will get it done by then). (Athelstan is also brushing up on 6 languages at once besides Lojban, so that he can deal with people in their own language - a truly heroic endeavor!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will be spending about 4-6 weeks following Worldcon travelling around Europe by Eurorail, and eventually to Israel in October. He will be visiting &#039;friends&#039;, a label which includes every Lojbanist on the Continent that he can work into his itinerary. He specifically plans to make it to John Negus in France and Silvia Romanelli in Italy, and possibly to others in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Again, he will be giving talks on Lojban and mini-lessons everywhere he goes. Lojbanists who can organize sessions for him to give talks at will gain precedence on his itinerary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are a European Lojbanist who wants Athelstan to stop through for a visit, please let us know as soon as possible. We&#039;ll provide more details on his plans next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== International Finance ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have finally arranged with an international service firm, Deak International, to process currency exchanges for us with a corporate account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that we can now accept checks drawn in your country&#039;s currency as payment to contribute to your voluntary balance, or to donate to the project. The currency must be convertible to US dollars, and will be exchanged at the official rate. The service is MUCH cheaper than what it would cost you otherwise to send us a check. We pay a service charge of US$3.50 for each check (which we will charge against your voluntary balance since we charge people what it costs us, so please allow for it). Above all, PLEASE make sure that you keep any such check covered until it clears, which might take a few weeks - we are charged US$50.00 if Deak cannot collect on the check.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also now can accept contributions and donations via Master Card and Visa credit cards, as described above under &#039;Finance&#039;. We originally sought this service for our international customers as an alternative to sending US currency through the postal system, and hope that it is useful to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Products and Prices ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our emphasis these last few month has been on polishing up design features of the language, working towards the grammar baseline, rather than developing new products, but we do have a few, primarily due to the efforts of others among you who have helped me out. These include two computer programs, a cassette tape, and several technical papers of a length or of a more limited interest group such that we can&#039;t justify printing them in a JL issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== New Lojban Tape ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have finally made the long-promised cassette tape designed to accompany the first few lessons of the textbook. The tape was made on very short notice, since Robert Gorsch wanted to use it in his class described below (although a U.S. mail foul-up meant that it didn&#039;t get to him in time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob, Nora, Athelstan, Tommy Whitlock, Sylvia Rutiser, and new Lojbanist David Young participated in the various pronunciation exercises and dialogues on the tape. The recording includes samples from the first three textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are announcing availability of this tape under rather restricted conditions. Because of our strained finances and the impending textbook rewrite, we cannot afford to mass produce the tape. Also, since the text associated with the tape is derived from the draft textbook lessons, it is fairly worthless to give the tape to anyone who doesn&#039;t have at least the first 3 draft textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we aren&#039;t mass producing the tape, Bob has to manually copy each tape that we distribute, which is not quick. And since the tape is not being widely distributed, we can&#039;t afford to put a lot of effort into polishing and editing it (although Lojbanist John Vengrouskie has vol- unteered to assist us in this, when we finally do so.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enough qualifications. The bottom line is that, for now at least, we will probably accept orders for the tape only from a) people who need the tape as examples for a group presentation they are giving on Lojban, and b) level 3 people who specifically ask for the tape. Among the latter, high priority will be given to paid orders, and to people who have been trying to use or write in the language or have otherwise contributed. I won&#039;t promise to fill unpaid orders at this point; we can&#039;t afford it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The price for the 60 minute cassette is $9.00, with a 20% discount ($7.20) as announced in &#039;finances&#039; above for people with positive balances who are either level 3 or who prepay their order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Hypercard Mac LogFlash ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi has written a Hypercard implementation of LogFlash for the MacIntosh which is available on special order. The program, being new, and on the Mac, has not undergone Nora&#039;s exhaustive testing program; it has, however, been tested by at least three users and found to be a worthwhile product.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main feature of the program, other than its Hypercard design that allows you to use the program for word look-ups as well as for testing, is that it interfaces with the standard MacIntosh speech generator. Thus, unlike Mac LojFlash, and other LogFlash versions, you can hear the word on request. This makes this program especially valuable to newer Lojbanists who are unfamiliar with the sound of the language, although the Hypercard implementation is apparently noticeably slower than Mac LojFlash, especially on the older and slower models.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because Hypercard Mac LogFlash is of comparable functionality with Mac LojFlash, we are offering it at the same price - $20. Since the program is still in a late development stage, we will include in this price 6 months of update support: free updates will be provided during that time if a new release provides meaningful new functionality (and of course if any bugs need fixing); our normal update price is $6 for each update (with the 20% discount per above).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are offering the program for now under similar restrictive terms as the cassette tape - priority will be given to advance paid orders, to level 3 subscribers, and to people needing the program for a demonstration; no guarantees that we can fill unpaid orders.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are also offering the 20% discount on both Mac teaching programs as described under &#039;finances&#039; above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== lujvo-Making Program ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora has pretty well tested her new lujvo-making program for PC/MS-DOS machines, and we&#039;re going to start offering it for sale now. The program, unlike LogFlash and its variations, does not use a ladder technique, nor is it solely a teaching program.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo-maker has two modes, one for reference, and one for drill. One mode allows you to type in up to 5 keywords from the list of gismu English keywords, and it will form the set of possible lujvo, listing up to 32 valid forms in order of highest &#039;score&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The scoring algorithm differs from both proposals included in the Synopsis - these latter failed the most important test of all - usability by a Lojbanist trying to make words &#039;on the fly&#039;. The new algorithm stresses word- length, with adjustments minimizing hyphens and consonant clusters. It generally selects the intuitive &#039;best word&#039; from the list, and at least can be predicted &#039;on the fly&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The drill mode selects a random tanru of 1 to 5 elements, and displays the English keywords. It then asks you to type in what you think is the &#039;best&#039; lujvo. When you respond, it displays the set of correct values, and tells you whether you chose a valid lujvo, one in the top few in the list, or optimally, the best lujvo on the list. At this point, it keeps no statistics, although we may eventually add such a function for research aimed at evaluating how well people learn rafsi and lujvo-making. For now, the program is fairly simple - not even requiring a users manual. Just start it up and follow the menus.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are offering lujvo-maker on a separate disk at this point for $10, with a 20% discount for those with positive balances etc., per &#039;finances&#039; above. At some point, we will probably offer it in combination with the random sen- tence generator on a single diskette.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unlike the above new products, there are no restrictions on ordering lujvo-maker; I can make copies fairly easily. The program is very effective at teaching lujvo-making, especially if used after or in conjunction with LogFlash 2, which teaches the rafsi independent of lujvo-making. After reaching 80% on LogFlash 2, it took me only about an hour of practice to regularly be able to predict either the top scoring lujvo, or at least one of the top 3 scorers. Since all lujvo forms based on the same root tanru have the same meaning, this is more than acceptable for everyday use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Technical Papers Offered ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over the last year or two, as many of you know, I have been building a linguistics reference library, and a Loglan/Lojban historical archive. Your correspondence over the two years amounts to about 4-5 feet of filing cabinet space. Most of this correspondence is short letters, questionnaire responses, etc., that are primarily of interest for statistical or historical purposes. Some of you, however, have written article length essays and comments, etc. reviewing some aspect of Lojban or linguistics. T. Peter Park, Paul Doudna, and Jim Carter have been especially prolific, and Michael Helsem has writ- ten more Lojban text than we can review and print in JL (I get a new letter every week or two. Keep it up, Michael!). For a while, I published almost anything printable in JL. We can&#039;t do so anymore. Readers want me to be selective about length, relevance to general interest, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The writings I&#039;m talking about are NOT low quality. In some cases, they are written for readers of a particular experience background that I don&#039;t think is representative. To give an example, a year ago Jeff Prothero wrote a proof of Lojban elidable-terminator disambiguity. It&#039;s only 1 page long, but if I added enough explanation of Jeff&#039;s terminology and its relationship to our standard usages, and also explained the point of the proof to those who are unfamiliar with the machine grammar design, the result might be a dozen pages - and since I&#039;m not sure that the proof is correct, or that people are interested, I can&#039;t use that much space on the article (nor can I spend the time writing the explanation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A similar reason explains why I&#039;ve never printed Jim Carter&#039;s descriptions of the evolving versions of his Loglan-derivative language. The text is too long, of insufficient general interest, and filled with vocabulary and usages that are peculiar to Jim&#039;s writing (and often contradicting our own terminology) to print in JL. But some among you want to read about other artificial language proposals, and Jim and others have given me their efforts presumably so that I can bring their ideas to a wider, interested, audience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I&#039;m going to try to do over the next couple of months is to assemble a list of such special papers that I think can be made available to the Lojban readership, and I&#039;ll include it as a separate page of ordering materials. I&#039;ll also put the oldest issues of JL and its predecessor newsletters on that list, freeing up space on the main order form for new products.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that I have a couple dozen such papers, ranging in length from 1 page to 75 (for Paul Doudna&#039;s detailed analyses of Loglan/Lojban gismu categories).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m going to start with a base price of 15 cents/page, which is my estimate of what it costs for special order printing and mailing of such papers. I will apply the 20% discount to these papers for advance paid orders - if we lose a little money on this, I&#039;ll consider it a well-spent reward for those who are supporting us with cash. So I can keep going on more normal orders, I will have to fill these orders on a time-available basis, unless you give me some time-dependent reason for rushing your order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we lose too much money on this service, or if it takes too much of my time, we&#039;ll have to raise the price or try something else, but I want to do something to bring more of these writings to interested readers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll try to start this service with the next JL issue. I&#039;m interested in anyone&#039;s comments about the idea, and how it might be made to work best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 3 1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With my new 386/25 machine, I have a 3 1/4&amp;quot; disk drive, and can now offer PC/MS-DOS software in that format. For now, we&#039;ll charge the same price, since the higher cost of the diskettes is approximately countered by my not needing to use expensive disk mailers, and by slightly cheaper postage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Book Plans ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s the way I think things look for the textbook at this writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After I finish whatever needs to be done on the four open grammar issues, I will start working intensely on the textbook. First priority is to write up Athelstan&#039;s mini- lesson, which will serve as a new opening lesson. I may also revise the Overview for incorporation in the introduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have long planned to scrap the existing Overview as an introduction to the language for new people and to replace it with a derivative of one of T. Peter Park&#039;s outstanding efforts at overview-writing (these will be among the papers made available per the above discussion). T. Peter&#039;s overviews are heavy with examples and have a much more personable style than the stilted, fairly technical overview we distribute now. But the latter is useful for the textbook, perhaps blended into the mini-lesson write- up, because it covers the whole language, and defines our special usage vocabulary and jargon that is found throughout JL, the textbook, and all of our other writings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will then be revising the 6 existing lessons, probably breaking them up into smaller chunks - as many as 20. I&#039;ll try to add more examples, and to bring a student to a greater feeling of competence earlier in the text. Athelstan has people making good sentences after an hour mini-lesson; the textbook takes 2+ lessons to get to the same point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, I will finish the equivalent of Lessons 7, 8, and 9 of the textbook outline, using the same organization and lesson size that I develop for the first 6 lessons. Much of this material will come from the write-up on negation that I&#039;m putting together for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll put together a vocabulary list Appendix, Glossary, Index, and perhaps a couple of appendices on using the textbook more effectively for self-study and for classroom study. I&#039;d also like an appendix dealing with common errors made by new Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora will be assisting me by devising more examples - my main weakness in textbook writing and teaching is an inability to devise good examples to illustrate a particular point on demand. I will also be using examples out of the various writings that Lojbanists send me for review. This textbook will thus be a creation of many people, not just a few.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I said above, I want to have a draft finished by LogFest in mid-June. This is probably optimistic, since I haven&#039;t gotten started on it yet, but I think it will move quickly once I get going. (Now where have we heard this before!) But I&#039;ve made a commitment; the textbook, and the dictionary, will be done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the dictionary - the primary efforts to be done in prerequisite are the completion of the new cmavo list, which Jeff Taylor has been working on for several months, and a word by word review of expanded gismu place structures that I actually prepared about 8 months ago. These will form the core of the dictionary, which will be enhance by a data base of alternative English keyword equivalents, and entries for conversions and abstractions of the gismu and their corresponding lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven&#039;t yet figured out how I want to write such entries, but the first dictionary will be prepared with fairly mechanical definitions to make sure that it gets written. We&#039;ll then revise it based on your feedback on the First edition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll be adding in the (hopefully) baselined machine grammar and an explanation of how to use it, various supplementary lists, such as Lojbanizations of common names, an index of rafsi, etc., and a revision of the Synopsis, which belongs in a reference work. Probably to be added to a later edition will be a revised an completed grammar synopsis that I once started writing, now available as the partial &#039;grammar description&#039; we list on our order form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right now, I am hoping to sell each of these books for about $12-15, with the 20% discount ($10-12) for positive balances described under &#039;finances&#039; above. At least one person has pointed out that we probably should charge more, since quality technical paperbacks generally sell for $15- 20 nowadays. At this point, I&#039;m inclined to go the cheaper route. I want students and Lojbanists overseas to buy the books, and I want more people buying them, rather than having fewer people buying, and giving books away to the others because I don&#039;t want anyone who wants to learn the language to be deprived by an inability to afford the books.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another possibility I&#039;m considering is that the prices given above will be advance order prices only to repay all of you who have stuck with us over the years with a special lower price, and that within a few months after publi- cation, we will raise prices to start earning money in support of our other activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am noting people&#039;s requests for textbooks now, but don&#039;t have a mechanism in place to record advance orders, so please don&#039;t send &#039;orders&#039; yet. You CAN, of course, send money now to bring your balance positive before the textbook comes out, and to even put in enough to have paid for the &#039;advance order price&#039; needed for the 20% discount. A large number of people bringing their balances positive will probably lead to keeping textbook prices lower, because we&#039;ll have the money and orders to print more books, and to not have to take out a loan to pay for the printing. (We&#039;ll also accept your donations made specifically towards textbook publication, or towards paying for copies for people who legitimately cannot afford them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your feedback on our plans is important. Let me know your opinions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== LogFlash Porting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had volunteers to port LogFlash to CP/M, the Amiga, and the Apple II, during the last 3 months, all of which I&#039;ve tried to discourage: people who start this effort don&#039;t seem to finish it, and I&#039;d rather see people not waste their time on an incomplete effort. Perhaps a half dozen people have volunteered for each of the portings mentioned, and only one (an Amiga version by Carl Burke) got partially running. LogFlash is apparently surprisingly complex - 2000 lines of Turbo Pascal, and this will probably be increased later this year when we have longer English definitions for the gismu list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CP/M is the only porting possibility that seems meaningful; older Turbo-Pascal versions exist for CP/M so that conversion would be easy. Speed, small diskette sizes, and the infinite variety of terminal interfaces and diskette formats make a conversion a problematical investment of effort in the rapidly declining CP/M market.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Raymond had completed an 85% conversion of LogFlash to portable Unix C, using a Turbo-to-C translator that he is modifying as he goes to make sure that we can always generate working Pascal from the C and vice-versa. There have been hang-ups due to incompatible I/O between Turbo-Pascal and C; LogFlash uses &#039;random access&#039; to disk files, which is apparently difficult to match in C. Otherwise the project would be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volunteers who have significant amounts of time to contribute and a good knowledge of both C and Turbo Pascal can contact Eric on uucp/Internet at:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
eric@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the conversion is completed it can perhaps serve as a basis for portings to several other machines, given the attempt to maximize portability of the C code. If the porting is completed, we will consider making the C version the main &#039;baseline&#039; version. The problem with this is support, since neither Nora nor Bob is proficient with C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News (with Comments) About the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(For newcomers, The Loglan Institute, Inc. is the organization headed by James Cooke Brown, the founder of the Loglan Project. While la lojbangirz. has serious disputes with Brown on availability of the language, and the politics of the Loglan/Lojban community, we respect his achievements and contributions to Loglan/Lojban. We will strive to continue to present reasonably fair outside reports on his efforts, especially reporting on how his organization&#039;s activities affect Lojban and Lojbanists.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Brown&#039;s 4th edition of Loglan 1 has been out for 9 months now. The Loglan Institute, Inc. has advertised the book in Scientific American, Analog, and a couple of other magazines (If you see anything about Loglan or Lojban in any publication, or receive anything from Jim Brown, please consider sending me a copy for the historical archive, or at least asking me if I need it - I am already getting most things put out by the Institute, since our information network is spread wide).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve noted that the Institute is spending a LOT of money on advertising (thousands of dollars), which must certainly be adding significantly to Institute prices. In contrast, la lojbangirz. is trying to minimizing advertising costs by building an extensive word-of-mouth network in advance of the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, the number of books Jim, and we, can sell, is an uncertain question. Most small press print runs are for 500, 1000, or 2000 books, with significant per book savings on the larger numbers. We don&#039;t know how many copies Jim had printed, but I believe he only sold 2000 copies of the 3rd Edition of Loglan 1 back in 1975-7 (at a MUCH lower price), and he advertised in Scientific American at least 3 times. He also didn&#039;t have Lojban and la lojbangirz. around as a &#039;competitor&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We haven&#039;t been hurt in the slightest by Brown&#039;s publication. In fact, we have profited some thereby. People come up to us at conventions and ask about the relationship between Lojban and Loglan, and we tell them - generally doubling our response rate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also gain through our extensive grass roots network. Perhaps once a month people post a message on Internet saying that they&#039;ve bought Loglan 1 and asking whether anyone else is studying Loglan. We answer, and have added a couple of level 3 language students as a result, because these are people that want something like la lojbangirz. to support their language learning activities. Similar messages are posted on Compuserve, Genie, and other national networks, and Lojban volunteers have been quick to answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile we&#039;ve lost exactly 1 person in each of the last 3 years who has chosen to study the Institute&#039;s version of the language over Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Turning to other Institute activities, we&#039;ve heard that Robert McIvor has revised the 8-year-old draft of a paper intended for submission to Communications of the ACM on the supposed unambiguity of the Institute&#039;s version of the language, and that he again plans to submit the paper. Jim wrote to several of the co-authors of the paper to tell them; most of these co-authors are studying Lojban. One co-author, Jeff Prothero, who devised some of the major schema for making the language truly unambiguous, indicates that he now thinks the paper&#039;s concept is too flawed to be worth publishing, and that the hand-waving evidence for &#039;unambiguity&#039; needed to explain the Institute&#039;s grammar would be laughed at by the computer community. I have an old draft of the paper in the archives and tend to agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute published its first issue of Lognet in over a year just after JL11 went out. Jim recruited Rex May, a nationally known cartoonist and libertarian author as the new editor. The result was a much improved Lognet, if small. It included a dozen pages or so, including a couple of pages of sales offerings comparable to our order form, but it did have the first paragraph of text in Institute Loglan that has been seen in years (other than in Loglan 1), and a couple of articles other than by Brown, also a rarity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other than cartoons, the quality has a long way to go to match JL, so I&#039;m not threatened (we&#039;ve asked Rex to draw us some cartoons, too). Disturbing is Brown&#039;s announced intent to give several issues of Lognet to new book purchasers and inquirers; this is disturbing not in its threat to us - that is after all what we do with le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli, but rather in ethical sense that it seems unfair to charge Institute members $25 for such a meager publication, and then give it to everyone else who doesn&#039;t pay for it, for free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The three relatively technical articles included a proposal by Rex May on non-Loglan alphabets, which is similar in many ways to Lojban&#039;s scheme for the same problem. An article by Brown reported on problems in Loglan 1 that were detected by &#039;several persons&#039; (he quoted only problems and examples Athelstan and I reported in our review in LK10). Brown claimed that the problems were minor and offered a contest for the best solutions. I barely resisted the temptation to submit the simplest solution: switch to Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An essay written by Robert McIvor proposed that gismu be assigned 5 different place structures, depending on the 5 different final vowels possible at the end of a word (in both versions of the language, two gismu are not permitted to differ only by final vowel. Unlike Lojban, the Institute version makes an exception for &#039;cultural words&#039;, and this proposal is a major expansion of that exception into a universal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t go at length into the problems with the proposal, but its adoption would spell the end of the Institute version as a true predicate language. The proposal calls the varying place structures &#039;cases&#039; - and indeed the proposal is in effect reinventing declensions. More important, the gismu are divided into a bunch of categories, including &#039;nouns&#039; and &#039;verbs&#039;, &#039;culture words&#039;, &#039;people&#039;, &#039;body parts&#039; and a few others. Each category would have its own peculiar set of declensions. Thus the assumption of a predicate language that all predicates are alike is violated at the start - major &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; that might derive from the fact that things traditionally &#039;verbs&#039; can be treated as &#039;nouns&#039; in Loglan, and vice versa would be eliminated. There are other problems, some identified by McIvor himself, any of which should be sufficient to kill the idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is some letter feedback and questions on Institute equivalents of LogFlash and other programs. It appears that those programs are being sold without proper testing. But I won&#039;t pretend that la lojbangirz. hasn&#039;t had its own software support problems, especially with MacIntosh software.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Brown calls on readers to do a lot of things to promote the Institute version of the language. A lot of the proposals are things that we&#039;ve been doing. la lojbangirz. is honored by the extent that Brown values our methods. If only he would realize that our methods require a public domain language in order to work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue, and a lot more news.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Feature Topic: Esperanto and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Whether you have (or should have) interest in Lojban as a candidate for an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is not a question addressed in the following two articles. To achieve most of its goals, including the scientific ones, Lojban needs to develop an international, multi-cultural speaker base. Lojban can be helped in this effort by the &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; community, or it can be hurt by it. Perhaps one of the best ways to spread Lojban into other cultures will be to translate the introductory and teaching materials into Esperanto (any volunteers?) In any case, it is to all Lojbanists&#039; advantage to clarify the relationship between Lojban and Esperanto, and to ensure that supporters of each language do not see the other language as a &#039;rival&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably the most commonly asked questions from new or potential Lojbanists relate to various comparisons between Esperanto and Lojban. Many of these questions come from Esperantists, who of course are the ones most familiar with their language. Some of these are friendly and curious; others are defensive and hostile, seeing Lojban as a threat or competition to Esperanto. Others come from people who have dabbled in Esperanto, and they then want to use their knowledge of Esperanto as a standard for evaluating Lojban&#039;s qualities with respect to their personal priori- ties or goals. And then there are the genuinely confused, who often have seen one of the short eye-catching advertising flyers used by Esperantists to whet people&#039;s interest. These questions generally lead to discussions along one of several lines:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Why another international language? Isn&#039;t Esperanto good enough? After all, it&#039;s already spoken by [insert questionable statistic of your choice between 25,000 and 10,000,000] people.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Esperanto a European language? Does the answer mean that non-Europeans will or won&#039;t be able to easily learn it? Is Lojban any better?&lt;br /&gt;
* Can Esperanto be used in testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis? Can Esperanto be used for machine translation? (and similar questions about applications for which we think Lojban is especially well-designed).&lt;br /&gt;
* Esperanto had speakers within a few months of its publication, but Loglan/Lojban has been around for 15/25/35 years before even the first speakers gained competence. (This leading to the humorous aside that Loglan is the first artifi-cial language to undergo a schism before anyone spoke it. Probably not true - Lojban is the first language to SURVIVE aschism occurring before anyone spoke it. la lojbangirz. is now far stronger and less-divided than the Loglan/Lojban community has ever been.)&lt;br /&gt;
* I want a language that I can use NOW for speaking and writing to other people. Lojban doesn&#039;t have anyone speaking the language, especially in other countries.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are also comments commending the short, free correspondence course that Esperanto supplies. These generally are compared to our considerably more complicated teaching materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And finally, sparking the following article:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You say Lojban has 600 rules. But Esperanto has only 16. How can you say Lojban is simpler than Esperanto?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will answer this question, and then Bob will follow with an essay tackling the other issues that stem from trying to compare Lojban and Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How many rules are enough? by Athelstan ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many people are confused or dismayed that Lojban has 600 rules while Esperanto has a mere 16. The key is in the different kinds of rules these are: Lojban&#039;s are computer parsing rules, similar to the types of rules used by compiler writers to describe computer languages. Zamenhof&#039;s 16 Rules of Esperanto are essentially commentary on 16 topics of language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have concocted 11 rules of Lojban that approximately correspond to Esperanto&#039;s 16. Like Zamenhof&#039;s list, the Lojban rules are often groups of rules concerning a single topic. Also, following Zamenhof&#039;s example, the rule set is incomplete: the rules do not describe word or sentence order, relative and subordinate clauses, relative pronouns, and numerous other topics of grammar and vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 16 Rules of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Corresponding Rules for Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) There is no Indefinite Article, there is only a definite article (la), alike for all sexes, cases, and numbers.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;1) The articles la, le, lo, li, and lu are the name, non-veridical, veridical, numeral, and utterance articles,respectively. lai, lei, and loi are the mass articles and la&#039;i, le&#039;i, and lo&#039;i are the set articles corresponding to the first three above. lo&#039;e is the typical/average article, and le&#039;e is the stereotypical article. None vary by number, case or sex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: This is the one rule where Lojban is not as succinct as Esperanto in covering the same ground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Substantives end in o. To form the plural j is added. There are only two cases: nominative and accusative; the latter is obtained from the nominative by adding n. Other cases are expressed by preposition (genitive de, dative al,ablative per, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;2) sumti (arguments) assume the case of the sumti place they occupy. The place tags fa, fe, fi, fo, and fu may be used to explicitly state the place. Also, the case tags bai, bau, di&#039;u, etc. may be used to specify the case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Lojban words do not change endings, so the corresponding rule only deals with determination of cases. Note that this is a conglomeration of four rules, each in its own sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) The Adjective ends in a. Case and number as for substantives. The Comparative is made by means of the word pli,the Superlative by plej; with the Comparative the conjunction ol is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;3) Any selbri may modify any other selbri by position. Comparatives and Superlatives are formed by simple modification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: The Lojban rule describes a secondary function, as there are no separate words that act only as adjectives in Lojban. The Esperanto rule consists of six rules this time; the second sentence is short but refers to two separate rules inside Rule 2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4) The cardinal Numerals (not declined) are: unu, du, tri, kvar, kvin, ses, sep, ok, nau, dek, cent, mil. Tens and hundreds are formed by simple junction of the numerals. To mark the ordinal numerals a is added; for the multiple, obl;for the fractional, on; for the collective, op; for the distributive, the preposition po. Substantival and adverbial numerals can also be used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;4) The digits are pa, re, ci, vo, mu, xa, ze, bi, so, and no (zero). pi is the decimal point. Numbers are formed byjunction of the digits. li ... boi surround simple numbers as sumti. To mark the ordinal, the post-position moi isused; similarly mei for the collective. pi ... mei surrounds the fractional.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: These two Rules correspond closely for the first seven parts, but the last sentence of Zamenhof&#039;s rule invokesrules from Rule 2 and Rule 3, adding ten rules in all for a total of seventeen rules directly and indirectly containedin this paragraph.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5) Personal Pronouns: mi, vi, li, si, gi (thing or animal), si, ni, vi, ili, oni; possessives are formed by adding a.Declension as for substantives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;5) Anaphora: ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, etc; mi, do, ko, ti, ta, tu, ri, ra, ru, zu&#039;i, zo&#039;e; possessives are formed by position orwith prepositions pe, po, po&#039;e.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: These are of similar length except that Rule 2&#039;s substantive declension rules are included. I count sixrules, therefore, to Lojban&#039;s three.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6) The Verb undergoes no change with regard to person or number. Forms of the verb: time being (Present) takes thetermination -as; time been (Past) -is; time about-to-be (Future) -os; Conditional mood -us; Imperative mood -u; In-finitive -i. Participles (with adjectival or adverbial sense): active present -ant; active past -int; active future -ont; passive present -at; passive past -it; passive future -ot. The passive is rendered by a corresponding form of theverb esti and a passive participle of the required verb; the preposition with the passive is de.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;6) The selbri undergoes no change. The tense markers pu (past), ca (present), ba (future), vi, va, vu (space), etc.may be used with any selbri or within sumti. nu, ka, ni, etc. are the abstraction operators. For the imperative, usethe anaphorum ko.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Without reference to any other Rules, Zamenhof has packed Rule 6 with sixteen rules. Lojban&#039;s nine include the abstraction operators, which have no counterpart in Esperanto. Also, I have counted the tense markers as three separate rules, but they should probably count as one, like any of the other lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7) Adverbs end in e; comparison as for adjectives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: This is covered under Rule 3 on modification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8) All Prepositions govern the nominative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Lojban has no cases in the sense used here, so it needs no rule corresponding to this one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;7) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;8) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable (names may be marked for irregular stress).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11) Compound Words are formed by simple junction of the words (the chief word stands at the end). Grammatical terminations are also regarded as independent words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;9) lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi, substituting or inserting y where appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: As Zamenhof left off variant compounding rules, I felt equally free in leaving out the more extensive lujvo-making considerations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12) When another negative word is present the word ne is left out.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;10) na acts to negate a bridi, and is never an intensifier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: I have recently examined a treatise on the scope of negation in the natural languages. It is medium-sized,and an inch and a half thick; both of these two Rule statements obviously miss a lot of ground. [Bob&#039;s note: the current Lojban negation proposal covers all of the ground of negation with 4 cmavo, and involves 47 of the 600-oddmachine grammar rules. But it requires a lot of explanation to cover all of natural language negation, as will be seen in JL12.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13) In order to show direction towards, words take the termination of the accusative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: see comment on 8, above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14) Each Preposition has a definite and constant meaning; but if the direct sense does not indicate which it should be, we use the preposition je, which has no meaning of its own. Instead of je we may use the accusative without a preposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15) The so-called Foreign Words, that is, those which the majority of languages have taken from one source, undergo no change in Esperanto, beyond conforming to its orthography; but with various words from one root, it is better to use unchanged only the fundamental word and to form the rest from this latter in accordance with the rules of the Esperanto language.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;11) Nonce le&#039;avla are marked with le&#039;a and a marker rafsi as appropriate, and should conform to Lojban orthography.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Zamenhof&#039;s Rule here does not seem to admit of any major group of languages that are not closely interrelated.That is, he assumes that if a word varies, it varies from one fundamental root word. I have included a description of borrowed terms as the closest approximation to this rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16) The Final Vowel of the substantive and of the article may sometimes be dropped and be replaced by an apostrophe.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please note the overall structure of the 16 Rules. The first 8 cover eight major parts of speech in Graeco-Romangrammar; articles, nouns, adjectives, numerals, pronouns, verbs, adverbs and prepositions. The last 8 cover seven aspects of the same grammatical philosophy: pronunciation, accent, compounding, negation, case usage, borrowings, and elision. (Rule 14 should really be divided and shared between Rule 8 and Rule 13.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that any language with a Graeco-Roman grammar form can be described by similar rules. They may be long rules, including lots of sub-rules, but Zamenhof started this practice with the Esperanto rules. They may ignore a lot of the grammar, but again this is in keeping with the example set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, with slight adjustments to the Rule topics, any language may be described with approximately 16 rules, if the rules are sufficiently complex (and allow for all the exceptions that are inherent in natural languages). In some cases, a language&#039;s rule set may not even be as complex as Esperanto&#039;s; this is the case with Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In order to have a meaningful comparison between numbers of rules, the complexity of those rules must be nearly uniform; the machine parsing rules (of which Lojban has about 600) come closer to meeting that ideal. Unfortunately,there are no figures on the number of such rules required by Esperanto; we must rely on indirect evidence of their number. Esperanto&#039;s dependency on case declensions probably alone requires a complete set of rules comparable to Lojban&#039;s FOR EACH CASE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is not my intention here to prove that Lojban is &#039;better than Esperanto&#039; or that Esperanto is in some way &#039;defective&#039;. It is rather to show that the comparison of two languages is a complex task, and not to be decided by comparing raw numbers. Each of these languages is complex in itself, and yet much simpler than the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob&#039;s note: Even comparing languages by counting machine parsing rules is risky, unless you count rules the same way.We&#039;ve used the number 600 as the machine rule count for Lojban in the above article. However, that number is a count of each individual rule line in the current machine grammar proposal, which was not written to minimize the rule count, but to modularize the grammar into separate, small chunks that can be readily understood. An earlier JL article compared Lojban&#039;s rule count to the &#039;BNF rules&#039; used to define common computer languages like C, Pascal, or ADA; such a comparison can only be approximated. The Lojban rules are much simpler than those used in BNF rule descriptions, which are generally use compression conventions that are not directly testable with YACC for unambiguity. Eventually,probably after we baseline the YACC grammar, someone will rewrite the Lojban rules in the shorter, more readable BNF format. The result will be much shorter than the current rule set - perhaps 250-350 rules, within the same order of magnitude as computer languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
=== On Comparing Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First let me state a guiding principle for evaluating the two languages. Lojban is not &#039;in competition&#039; with Esperanto. These are two separate languages with separate goals and applications. These may overlap, but are not identical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Evaluating two languages is like &#039;comparing apples and oranges&#039;. If forced to choose between an apple and orange,you will do so for purely personal reasons, based on your needs and desires of the moment. Similarly, if your goal is to learn an artificial language and you don&#039;t have time to learn both Lojban and Esperanto, you will end up choosing based on your own personal reasons. (Learning a language, even an artificial one, is a fairly abstruse goal in itself -you usually have some longer range purpose for such a major effort, a purpose that will probably dictate the language you learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Competition would be pointless. Partisan support for one language doesn&#039;t make that language &#039;better&#039; for others;it can, however, spark counterproductive rivalry. Far better instead to work to attract new people into discovering reasons for learning our respective artificial languages. By encouraging these new people, as well as supporters of our respective languages, to be as informed as possible about both languages, intelligent choices can be made towards individual goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Lojban becomes widely used, it might become a meaningful candidate as a universal &#039;second language&#039;, just as Esperanto now is. If Esperanto continues with healthy growth, then at that time there might be a basis to speak of a &#039;choice&#039; for &#039;world language&#039; between Lojban, Esperanto, and possibly other candidates. The decisions will then be made by nations and cultures on the basis of THEIR personal desires and goals - the same non-competitive situation, but at a higher level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Lojban to reach that level of viability, its various applications will have to be proven - there must be computer implementations, accomplishment of useful scientific research, and thousands or millions of speakers, before Lojban can be talked of as a &#039;world language&#039; as Esperanto now is. If Lojban becomes such a force for consideration as a world language, then I think that demonstrating enough growth to &#039;catch up to Esperanto&#039; as well as enough usefulness OUTSIDE of the international language movement to survive until then, will be convincing evidence that Lojban is suited for world acceptance. Furthermore, if Esperanto hasn&#039;t succeeded as an international language by the time Lojban is proven viable for global consideration, then Lojban&#039;s &#039;higher momentum&#039; and extra applications should the cause it to be considered &#039;more&#039; viable. Meanwhile, if Esperanto does succeed, then Lojban will continue to be used and useful for its other purposes. Each language will succeed or fail at its own goals on its own merits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither language has been accepted yet, and neither language will be accepted at the expense of the other. There is no point in talking of competition, especially when many Lojbanists are at the same time Esperantists, and who have no desire to &#039;make a choice&#039;. Let&#039;s keep the community of artificial language aficionados together, bucking the tendency in that community towards disharmony and schism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let us try to compare apples and oranges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are four major areas of criteria wherein Esperanto and Lojban can be compared - aesthetics, usefulness, scientific or linguistic merit, and success. I&#039;ll discuss each in turn.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Aesthetics ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first basis of comparison is aesthetic. There are a few aesthetic qualities - sound, rhythm, ease of pronunciation, simplicity, elegance, completeness - but the standards of &#039;good&#039; in these qualities are cultural at best, and individual at worst. I am most irritated by people, not having made an effort to learn the language, who say that Lojban seems &#039;cold&#039;, &#039;mechanical&#039;, &#039;inhuman&#039;, &#039;complicated&#039;, &#039;hard to learn&#039;, or deficient any other measure of aesthetic quality; they have absolutely no knowledge basis on which to make such an evaluation!&lt;br /&gt;
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The aesthetics of language is totally determined by knowledge. All languages have beauty, when looked at from an internal perspective. You have to see, and to understand, the sounds, the forms, the structure, and the poetry, before you can determine whether a language has properties that attract you. Michael Helsem&#039;s writings in le lojbo ciska this issue may demonstrate this to you. Whether you like his poetry or not, he clearly has found something in the language that inspires him to explore further. He couldn&#039;t have found this without trying to express his own ideas in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most people make a first evaluation of Lojban based on two sentences in the brochure, and a couple more if they get the Overview. These sentences can be evaluated by a newcomer only in translation, and whatever virtue Lojban has is obviously going to be lost by translation into English. The sentences are longer than the colloquial English translation, so Lojban seems complicated (heightened by people&#039;s perception that logic is complicated). The frequent reference to &#039;logic&#039; in our introductory materials makes people think of Vulcans, whereupon they presume that a logical language must inherently be cold and inhuman.&lt;br /&gt;
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Similarly, people criticize our &#039;Chicken McNugget&#039; gismu - it seems like the wrong way, to them, to build a &#039;warm, human&#039; language. A newcomer sees a heavy emphasis on the rules of the language, on computer applications, and on linguistic principles, in our introductory descriptions, which makes Lojban seem &#039;cold&#039; and &#039;mechanical&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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A third group of critics see Lojban words as unaesthetic because of particular sounds that they find difficult to say, or simply because the words are enough different from English that they think it will be hard to learn them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that all of these evaluations are based on misconceptions caused by the way we describe the language and by the readers&#039; cultural prejudices. However, we can&#039;t possibly tell a casual newcomer enough about the language for him/her to aesthetically evaluate it. There are too many possible misconceptions to deal with; in this newsletter alone I&#039;ve written 3 or 4 essays that try to dispel misconceptions among readers with far more information than the person who casually picks up our brochure.&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto appeals aesthetically to European-family newcomers because they grasp the simplified European principles relatively easily. They can read Esperanto text and recognize dozens of cognates, giving them a feeling that they already practically know the language. Esperanto will always have this advantage over Lojban, since Lojban requires an interested person to learn a bit more before she/he can see the simplicity and the patterns.&lt;br /&gt;
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We need to make introductory Lojban materials good enough that a newcomer feels compelled to learn enough about the language to properly evaluate aesthetic features. WHEN PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT LOJBAN, THEY STAY WITH US. Our dropout rate among such people is only a couple of percent per year.&lt;br /&gt;
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Several people have tried to write a one-or-two page handout on Lojban, but it&#039;s awfully hard to describe something as complex as a human language in just a couple of paragraphs. On the other hand, at Worldcon, we saw numerous 1-page Esperanto handouts that showed great advertising sophistication, reducing all of Esperanto to some graphics and a catchy slogan that plays to the emotions. I would feel dishonest trying to do the same. Our handouts give information, quite dense information at that. Our only catchy slogan so far is &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot;, which of course also loses something in the translation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps Lojban promoters can learn from Esperanto in other ways. Esperanto has a correspondence course for newcomers, which Lojban doesn&#039;t. It isn&#039;t even on our priority list yet, although Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson may eventually serve much the same basic purpose - to give peo- ple the warm, fuzzy, feeling that they can indeed learn the language, and that it is aesthetically pleasing - then they will be willing to start the hard work necessary to actually learn it. Only the people who move beyond such introductory lessons actually learn and use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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On a more practical note, it will be impossible to evaluate the aesthetics of Lojban until it is spoken by reasonably fluent speakers. Only the first tidbits of Lojban poetry have now been written, by one poet, so the enormous power of the language to convey ideas has hardly been tapped. The aesthetics of Lojban are being evaluated on such trivial grounds as whether one likes the apostrophe as a representation for the vowel buffer (pronounced like an h - but NOT an h), or whether the consonant clusters at the beginning of &amp;quot;cfari&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mrilu&amp;quot; seem pronounceable. Esperantists have a similar problem, with four alphabetic letters not found on any typewriter or computer keyboard. But Esperanto has speakers, poetry, novels - a community of people using the language - to give it the aura of &#039;humanity&#039;. It did not have these 100 years ago, when people first made the choice to learn the language. Lojban will have these things, too, and in a very short while.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Usefulness ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Turning to the second major area where Esperanto and Lojban may be compared, we examine the qualities of usefulness - what are the uses to which each language may be put, and how well does each language serve those purposes. Esperanto was designed solely as an international language. Other purposes that could be devised for it are accidental. Lojban was first designed as a linguistic tool, but with specific requirements (cultural neutrality, ease of learning, simplicity) that probably are important in an international language, and one (extremism in one or more areas of language structure) that is a disadvantage. For various reasons, the disadvantage of extremism has been ameliorated; most of the extremes in Lojban are optional, and can be avoided by an international user. The advent of computers and the large number of computer professionals has led to a secondary goal of useful computer applications while the language was still being formed, making this a third area of usefulness that is in effect designed into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unless we&#039;ve really fouled up, Lojban HAS to be potentially useful in more ways than Esperanto is. IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE.&lt;br /&gt;
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This doesn&#039;t suffice for a comparison, though. Lojban may have a great deal of unrealized potential, but Esperanto has realized most of its potential. It HAS been used for international communication. It is NOW being de- signed into an elaborate machine translation system that is expected to bear fruit by 1992. And while most linguists ignore Esperanto because it is not a &#039;natural language&#039;, has few native speakers, and is in effect a simplified European tongue, there are some linguists who have re- searched Esperanto as a language, and who have used it in linguistic studies such as language education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is not yet being used for any of these things. However, every application &#039;discovered&#039; for Esperanto has been designed for in Lojban, and a few more besides. Esperanto has an advantage in application now, but if Lojban survives at all, it will eventually have more and better applications. And because all of these applications are conceived of and being worked on from the start, Lojban won&#039;t take 100 years to achieve that large variety of useful application.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Scientific/Linguistic Merit ====&lt;br /&gt;
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In the third area, scientific or linguistic merit, there is also no competition possible. Lojban has &#039;won the race&#039; by starting at the finish line that Esperanto can never reach. Yet in another sense, Esperanto is also at a finish line, which Loglan/Lojban has had to strive for 35 years to finally reach.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Esperanto was invented, there wasn&#039;t a science of linguistics. A few seeds had been planted, mostly along the lines of historical evolution of languages. The concept of inventing a language significantly different than European languages was inconceivable - at least in Europe. Indeed, until my generation, all languages, even Oriental ones, were taught using Latin as the pure, perfect, ideal if dead language that was the model of what a language &#039;should be&#039;. Of hundreds of international languages invented before Lojban, almost none have a non- European grammar. They were simplified forms of Latin with some a priori or derived set of words to fit onto that Latinate architecture. Indeed, most of the hundreds of languages I&#039;ve seen in the Library of Congress stacks are described only as dictionaries, with some small set of rules at the front telling what simplifications have been made to standard European (read Latin) grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto&#039;s 16 rules are just such a set. Indeed, Zamenhof apparently intended all things not covered by the rules to be done &#039;like they are in your own language&#039;, as if all languages were alike in such reference. The 16 rules are confusing to anyone who doesn&#039;t know a European language, just as Lojban&#039;s machine grammar is confusing to anyone not versed in YACC grammars. What is an &#039;accusative&#039; in any of the Amerind languages, an &#039;adjective&#039; in Chinese, or perhaps a &#039;passive&#039;? You can&#039;t teach Esperanto without teaching these concepts, which are inherent to the design of the language. A non-European can&#039;t learn Esperanto without first learning the concepts and mind-set of European language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Project was started some 40 years after what is considered the birth of modern linguistics. Then, in the 1950&#039;s, the language was a skeleton - a simple structure with a few hundred words - based on predicate logic, which has been thoroughly studied for 2000 years. By the time the language meaningfully took shape, in the 1960&#039;s, modern linguistic theory had undergone the revolution that had pretty much thrown out the Latin ideal. Older versions of Loglan show obvious Latinate biases. Newer versions leading up to Lojban have successively weeded out more and more of them. The Lojban version now being taught has had input from dozens of linguists, and has been examined in comparison with a variety of linguistic theories that weren&#039;t around when Esperanto was developed. Loglan/Lojban has changed to account for the rapidly developing field of linguistics. Only recently has there been enough confidence that a baselined Lojban is &#039;good enough&#039; to meet the stringent linguistic tests that we believe are required for a totally new language to seem &#039;natural&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Loglan/Lojban has striven for 35 years from scratch to achieve the finish line of &#039;natural&#039; language. 100 years ago, Esperanto started at the European finish line, taking a few steps back to &#039;simplify&#039; the European grammar before again &#039;completing the race&#039;. Lojban moves beyond the restrictions of European grammar. It overtly incorporates linguistic universals, building in what is needed to support the expressivity of the whole variety of natural languages, including non-European ones. Esperanto, on the other hand, will always be constrained to some degree by its Latinate structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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I am particularly bothered by comparisons that note that Lojban has taken 35 years to achieve meaningful conversation, while Esperanto had hundreds of thousands of speakers within 35 years of its founding, including some native speakers. The fact that Lojban took 35 years to reach a point of development where it was speakable is a mark of the amount of work that went into the language, a sign that this spoken language is different, but not inferior to, any that have existed before.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since Lojban&#039;s purposes include linguistic experimentation, evaluating Lojban&#039;s merit requires noting the mechanisms built into the language that allow, even require, the use of the language for linguistic experimentation. There are roots of redundant expression forms for several types of expression. They will compete with each other for usage as Lojban grows. The choices made by real speakers should reveal NEW facts about language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban also has the cultural neutrality needed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. (Yes, &#039;logic&#039; could be a European bias. Indeed, Jim Brown intended that Loglan have an extreme bias that would have measurable effects - that is the requirement for a Sapir-Whorf experimental test. But beyond logic, Lojban is exceptionally free from obvious bias.) It has structures built into it that allow comparison with languages of many different families, not just European ones; such comparison will unmask observed Sapir-Whorf effects that are European artifacts in disguise, and will be possible because Lojban&#039;s grammar is non-European.&lt;br /&gt;
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And you don&#039;t &#039;have to be logical&#039; in Lojban. The redundant structures allow both hyperlogical and illogical ways of expressing things; you can be as erudite, or nonsensical as you choose.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Success ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, the last criteria - success. Lojban has NO fluent speakers. Esperanto has some large number - the value dependent on your source and whether you or the source is trying to promote or denigrate the language - but certainly a lot more than Lojban. Where&#039;s the comparison? Where&#039;s the competition?&lt;br /&gt;
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You cannot compare Esperanto&#039;s numbers with Lojban&#039;s numbers and gain any useful information regarding their relative potential for success. Lojban&#039;s couple of speakers are too small to deal with statistically. Thus you can use our numbers to prove practically anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, the number of Lojban students is growing in excess of 8% per month, or 100% per year. Extrapolating on this trend, Lojban would pass Esperanto in 15 years, and would be universally spoken 15 years after that. Reduce the growth rate and the results will be identical - just take longer, as long as Lojban grows faster than Esperanto. This extrapolation is ridiculous of course, and almost any method of predicting numbers is equally worthless, because changes will occur in the world every year that will invalidate any prediction. Just ask the peoples of Eastern Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is growing in numbers too, though not nearly as fast as Lojban. If it did, there would be no question about ITS eventually being a world language. But Esperanto right now isn&#039;t growing fast enough. When the population of the world grows by hundreds of millions per year, Esperanto is losing ground every day - just as Lojban is. Both languages are failures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Two paragraphs, opposite conclusions. Counting speakers is meaningless. Based on numbers, anything will happen tomorrow. Or nothing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Numbers of speakers are meaningless anyway, if the people don&#039;t USE the language. The biggest shock for me at Worldcon was sitting next to the Esperanto table for several days and NEVER HEARING A SINGLE CONVERSATION IN ESPERANTO. I won&#039;t say that none occurred (some of the people at the Esperanto tables are reading this), but I didn&#039;t hear any.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We didn&#039;t talk much Lojban at our table either. But our audience of potential conversationalists was much smaller - those of us who had driven up to Boston. The same group of us did speak Lojban for hours in the car going to and from Boston. But Esperantists visiting from all over the country and all over the world were speaking English in preference to Esperanto at their table.&lt;br /&gt;
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Only if a language is used can it be judged successful. And neither language is being used to its potential (Nora and I COULD set time aside each day to talk in Lojban, but we don&#039;t.) This will have to change if either language is to achieve &#039;success&#039;, in the sense of being widely used.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has a long-term advantage there, based on the greater potential uses discussed above. If the language is USED by the people who learn it. If the 100-or-more level 3 people out there start sending me sentences, then para- graphs, then texts in Lojban, and eventually start interacting with each other because they don&#039;t need us to tell them that they are using the language correctly, then Lojban will be used for its intended purposes. If not, Lojban will be just another dead artificial language. The same is true for Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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Any Esperantist/Lojbanist who gives me the argument that they can use Esperanto now, but cannot use Lojban, is arguing a self-defeating position. If you want to use a language, you will find a way to use it. We have the network in place for Lojbanists to interact with each other, including some people from other countries (though the numbers are still small). But you have to learn the language first in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
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The same argument follows for people who are &#039;waiting for some practical application&#039; before learning the language. The people who are waiting should be making the known applications a reality, and should also be creating new ones. Some of the brightest people in the world are reading this essay; you certainly have the ability to make Lojban (or Esperanto) applicable to your life - but only if you choose to.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban applications will naturally spring up from the seeds we&#039;ve planted. The time that no one seems to have available now for learning the language, could bear fruit and be ripe with reward in just a few years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile Lojbanists have the ultimate consolation. Unlike Esperanto, Lojban can achieve one of its goals even while failing as a language. While most of the linguistic community has yet to realize it, the efforts of the past 35 years have probably taught more about the nature of language than any other experimental effort. Every day and every new Lojban speaker adds to that knowledge. If Lojban suddenly is abandoned 5 or 10 years from now as a dead language, or is &#039;beaten out by Esperanto&#039; as a world language, it will still have succeeded in its original aim - to teach us more about language.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is one aspect in which I can comfortably say that &#039;Lojban is better than Esperanto&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Side Note on the Discussion ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Philosophically, I am unconvinced that personal and political decisions should be made in a competitive environment. The prevalent idea seems to be that &amp;quot;for me to be right, you must be wrong&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;for me to be good, you must be bad&amp;quot; is unrealistically simplistic. Within human endeavors, there is no absolute right or absolute good. Whether a language or a person, a candidate should be chosen on the basis of how well the varying needs of everyone concerned will be served, preferably not at the expense of others&#039; needs.&lt;br /&gt;
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An interesting side note occurred to Nora in reading this. The Lojban gismu &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot;, representing the concept of &#039;good&#039;, has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is good for x2 by standard x3&amp;quot;. Comparatives were also removed from other place structures when the language was redesigned. While Lojban can express comparisons quite easily, they are now avoided in gismu place structures. Thus one need not consider everything as being &#039;more&#039; or &#039;better&#039; than something else in order for a basic predicate relationship to be claimed. One needn&#039;t decide what something is &amp;quot;bluer than&amp;quot; in order to decide that it is &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;. One needn&#039;t decide that something is &amp;quot;better than&amp;quot; something else in order for it to be &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;. This seems metaphysically simpler, and now appears to be a more significant qualitative difference from earlier versions of the language than we&#039;ve perceived before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The metaphysical difference is perhaps significant to a Sapir-Whorf test, since if S/W is true, the earlier design could lead to a culture where people see the world as a competitive place where everything always strives to be more &#039;broda&#039; (~whatever) than something else, a culture that doesn&#039;t seem very pleasant to me in an aesthetic sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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The following article is taken from a letter received from Dr. Gorsch in which he described his recent class. Those of you interested in the evolution of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis since 1955, and those of you interested in developing useful applications for Lojban in education should find the letter an following course outline very useful. We ask anyone else who considers using the materials below to develop their own course, or for any other purpose, to let us know their results in a similar fashion. We also ask that appropriate credit be given Dr. Gorsch for his germinal work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== An Introductory College Course in Semiotics Using Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending the wonderful tape.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, it arrived too late for me to use it in my class. Don&#039;t worry, though. I will use it when I reorganize this occasional course in &amp;quot;Semiology&amp;quot; into a regular course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society.&amp;quot; We are planning to make this course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society&amp;quot; a regular part of the curriculum of the English Department, and &amp;quot;Artificial Languages&amp;quot; (including Lojban) will be a unit of this course. I expect to be offering it for the first time in the Spring of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have enclosed the reading list for my course in semiology, together with copies of the readings most closely related to the Whorfian Hypothesis and the development of modern sign-theory. Please note that this is an &amp;quot;intensive&amp;quot; course: each meeting represents 2 1/2 hours of class-time or something like a week in a regular semester.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let me briefly sketch the context in which I introduced students to Loglan and Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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In my course we began with an examination of the way in which sign-systems, linguistic and non-linguistic, organize the raw experience of the human mind. We concentrated on developments in Continental linguistics and culture-theory that derive from the Swiss linguist Saussure. This tra- dition, associated with the terms &amp;quot;structuralism,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;semiotics&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;semiology,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;post-structuralism&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;deconstruction,&amp;quot; anticipates, parallels, and from the 1960&#039;s on elaborates the speculations of Sapir and Whorf. Saussurean &amp;quot;sign-theory,&amp;quot; with all of its quasi-Whorfian implications, is extremely influential today in academic circles, particularly in such fields as literary studies, anthropology, and communications. Indeed, it has been practically the intellectual orthodoxy in literary studies since the mid-1970&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some semiologists look back to the Whorfian Hypothesis as a kind of corroboration of Saussure&#039;s thesis that the sign consists of the arbitrary correlation of a signifier, for example, an arbitrarily selected segment of human speech sounds, and a signified, an arbitrarily defined segment of human thought or experience. This thesis concerning the relation between language and thought is developed, in particular, on pp. 111-22 of Saussure&#039;s Course. Umberto Eco uses the terms &amp;quot;cultural unit&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;culturally pertinent unit&amp;quot; to refer to what Saussure and his followers would call the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; (see the enclosed selections from Eco).&lt;br /&gt;
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For writers in this Saussurean tradition the lexicon of each language is of especial interest. Eco, for example, makes much of the fact that speakers of Latin had no word for &amp;quot;rat&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;mouse.&amp;quot; They did not (or did not easily) make a distinction where speakers of English do make a distinction. Through the lexical items they make available to their speakers different languages embody different segmentations or divisions of potential human experience. Each language constitutes a &amp;quot;map&amp;quot; of human experience. Takao Suzuki&#039;s discussion of the English words break, drink, desk, water, and lip is designed to show that these maps do not coincide. It is as though English and Japanese cartographers--to say nothing of Turkish and Swahili cartographers--organized Earth&#039;s land masses into political units in quite different ways.&lt;br /&gt;
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Semioticians like Eco also analyze the way in which a given language organizes human experience by relating culturally pertinent units (&amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot;) to one another through a network of connotative or associative links. Thus, as Eco explains in &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System,&amp;quot; a language not only differentiates each cultural unit from other, &amp;quot;adjacent&amp;quot; units (&amp;quot;orange&amp;quot; is differentiated from &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; and from &amp;quot;yellow&amp;quot;), but links each cultural unit to other units in other &amp;quot;semantic fields.&amp;quot; The signified of the word &amp;quot;rose,&amp;quot; the idea of a certain kind of flower, is linked connotatively to other signifieds, &amp;quot;romance,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sexual passion,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;male reverence for the female,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;courtship customs (giving flower),&amp;quot; &amp;quot;femininity,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;youth,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freshness,&amp;quot; and so on without limit. In this way each language is &amp;quot;contaminated&amp;quot; by traces of the cultural history of those who have used it: connotations are the links, arbitrary and mostly culture-specific, between one &amp;quot;semantic field&amp;quot; and another that speech communities inherit and take for granted.&lt;br /&gt;
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This thesis about the segmentation of &amp;quot;raw&amp;quot; human experience is not incompatible with the Whorfian Hypothesis. Indeed, to the extent that Whorfians concentrate on the structure of the lexicon and ask, for instance, how many words the Eskimo has for snow, the Whorfian Hypothesis can scarcely be distinguished from Eco&#039;s argument about the &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; in the sign (see &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System&amp;quot;). But, to my mind, the Whorfian Hypothesis is concerned more with grammatical structure rather than with lexicon. This is why I assign the essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; in my course (see enclosed). I selected this from a number of possibilities as Whorf&#039;s clearest articulation of the thesis that the grammatical structure of a language, and not just the map afforded by its lexicon, shapes the perceptions of its speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
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In my course, I used some introductory materials on both Esperanto and Loglan/Lojban to illustrate possible escapes from the constraints imposed on thought, according to the Whorfian Hypotheses, by natural languages. It was my hope that students would perceive the relations between the organizations of experience embodied in Esperanto and Logan/Lojban and those embodied in Indo-European languages like English, Spanish, and French. Anyone who examines Esperanto will see that it is Indo-European, even Romance- Germanic, to the core. Lojban, in contrast reflects a serious attempt to fashion a syntactic structure significantly different from that which structures English and other Indo-European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that you will find the enclosed readings on language and culture useful: they place the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in context and reflect the importance of the thesis of linguistic relativity in modern &amp;quot;culture- criticism.&amp;quot; You should be able to locate the other readings assigned in my course using the information found in the syllabus (I would be happy to provide copies of any readings that you find difficult to obtain).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Dr. Gorsch compiled some interesting, provocative, and very perceptive questions asked by his students. I&#039;ll try to answer them here, for everyone&#039;s benefit, and to hope that Dr. Gorsch is able to pass the answers back to appropriate questioners.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Following is a digest of comments, reflections, and questions prompted by my students&#039; encounter with materials relating to Loglan and Lojban. We discussed Loglan and Lojban in class and students wrote about them in their &amp;quot;intellectual diaries&amp;quot; (which I read).&lt;br /&gt;
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Needless to say, all of my students were dazzled by the very idea that anyone would attempt to fashion an artificial language, and the brightest ones were intrigued by the idea of testing the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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I would like it to be understood that all of the following questions and remarks were framed in a skeptical spirit: my students are trained to question things, everything in fact, in a skeptical spirit. Furthermore they are based upon an introductory acquaintance with the idea of the language. I hope these questions and remarks will be of interest to you.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. As one of my brightest students argued, the architects of Loglan/Lojban seem to have taken a &amp;quot;marketing approach&amp;quot; to language design. For example, they worried more about the size of the target audience of the language -- by attempting to maximize the number of potential learners whose native languages would be incorporated, in part, into the artificial language -- than about the cul- tural neutrality of the language. J. C. Brown, at least, seems unreasonably impressed by mere numbers (how many hundreds of millions of speakers have been targeted by having their native languages incorporated in some way into the artificial language?). As compared with Loglan, Lojban clearly seems to take a step forward by including a Semitic language among its source languages; but it takes a step backward, too, by the elimination of Japanese. As things now stand, four out of six of the source languages (English, Hindi, Russian, and Spanish) are Indo-European. Thus, only three independent language families are represented (Indo-European, Hamito-Semitic, and Sino- Tibetan). Even if one limited oneself to languages spoken by over fifty million speakers, one could, in principle, represent three additional language families, for a total of six families: the Malay-Polynesian (e.g., Javanese and Malay-Indonesian), the Altaic (e.g., Turkish and probably Korean, and perhaps Japanese), and the Dravidian (e.g., Tamil and Telugu).&lt;br /&gt;
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An important compromise seems to have been made here: &amp;quot;inter-culturality&amp;quot; seems to have been sacrificed to maximal &amp;quot;target audience&amp;quot; (or, from another perspective, maximal &amp;quot;learnability&amp;quot;). Legitimate questions could be raised about the cultural neutrality of any language which rooted in a set of languages four out of six of which are Indo-European. Questions might also be raised about your methodology: have you chosen source languages according to the best possible criterion? My own instincts tell me that one should maximize the number of independent language families from which the artificial language derives: the ideal artificial language would be derived from an analysis of, say six languages representing six utterly unrelated language families rather than from an analysis of those six languages which yield the largest possible &amp;quot;target audience.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: I think it a quite perceptive observation, and a true one, that marketing mentality has had an influence on the design of the language, although I can&#039;t say for sure that it is the case in the word-making. Brown never mentions such a criterion in discussing why he chose the particular algorithm that he did in either Loglan 1 or Loglan 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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Without evidence to back me up, I would tend to think that it was Brown&#039;s background as a social scientist in the 50&#039;s that led him to maximize an algorithmically-derived and weighted statistical score. In social science, this has been a frequently used and accepted methodology.&lt;br /&gt;
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Looking at his goal, it is not an unreasonable approach. The goal was a culturally neutral word-set, but also a maximally learnable one. This is unquestionably a &#039;market- minded&#039; goal, though whether Brown chose it for market reasons is uncertain. I think he was concerned about learnability, trying to balance it against neutrality. The most learnable words to a culture are the one&#039;s most like that culture&#039;s words. The most culturally neutral of words would give no link back to the native tongue. For what was originally thought of as a small short-term language experiment, learnability among test subjects was important enough to get a weighting factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown scored words based on the appearance therein of phoneme sequences that could be used as cognate memory hooks. As a result, English speakers find &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; easy to learn for &amp;quot;come&amp;quot;, while Chinese speakers will find &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; easier to learn for &amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;, and both find &amp;quot;blanu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot; relatively easy.&lt;br /&gt;
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JL9 had a more extensive discussion of the word-making algorithm and learnability. Briefly, it is believed that Brown never actually tested whether his algorithmic score actually measured learnability. Nor is it clear that it measures cultural neutrality. Eventually linguists can study both questions - the language as a tool is there for the studying.&lt;br /&gt;
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The choice of languages was not a &#039;marketing&#039; decision, but a practical one. Again, I don&#039;t know enough about Brown&#039;s reasons, but I know what we considered, tried, and rejected. Brown used 8 languages; we used 6 for the Lojban version, because these now are the &#039;top languages&#039; in terms of population. While Japanese is sociologically, if anything, a more important language than it was 35 years ago, the number of speakers has remained constant in a growing world population. Chinese and Hindi have swelled enormously. With the end of colonialism, French and German are on the retreat, and so to a lesser extent is English (although English has increased as the language of science and technology).&lt;br /&gt;
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Given that the object of the algorithm is the creation of 5-letter words with 3 consonants, it turns out to be meaningless to use more than 3 language families to generate scores under Brown&#039;s algorithm. First, regardless of the number of languages, you must use uneven weights, or you get ties among possible words, and we didn&#039;t want our own personal aesthetics to be what chose the words. If an uneven weighting is to be used, populations of speakers is certainly as rational a weighting to use as any.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then, given that language roots are most often reflected in their consonants, a 4 language family set results in the least-reinforced language being thrown out, and a lot of low, approximately equal scores for widely differing rules - again a formula for randomness and aesthetic selection on my (the word-maker&#039;s) part. A lesser, but real factor in our remaking of the words was the tradeoff of time vs. quality of language scholarship. We didn&#039;t have very good dictionaries for languages of other families, and we didn&#039;t have time to acquire the language expertise to properly research languages with unfamiliar alphabets.&lt;br /&gt;
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By the way, we did experiment with both equal-weighting of languages, and with adding additional languages into the calculation. Neither gave useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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While 4 of our languages are in the same family, Indo- European, they are from different subfamilies that have relatively minimal sharing of roots. Indeed, about the only obvious reinforcing that we observed was some En- glish/Spanish matches where we allowed a Latinate root in the English calculation. There was probably a good deal of subliminal sharing, but a high percentage of the words are primarily a blending of Chinese and English phonemes.&lt;br /&gt;
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What was achieved, I think, is better than a set of random words. Because the weighted scores included phoneme frequency and order, we have words that have a phoneme frequency that is consistent with the weighted average concept. We have an extremely non-random distribution of sound sequences that emphasizes those sound sequences that are pleasing to the widest possible distribution of speakers, because those sound sequences came from the words of their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cultural neutrality is served in that the words are sufficiently different from the roots of any one language family that no language sees a too high level of cognate reinforcement. Even with 4 Indo-European languages, no linguistic historian would ever recognize Lojban as having an obvious Indo-European heritage instead of a Sino-Tibetan one. Thus we counter to some extent the cultural biases caused by semantic transference, where Lojban words end up with the meanings of the base language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Furthermore, since we use the same concept (as near as possible) from each source language, our vocabulary has a universality not biased towards a single culture. Such a bias towards one culture is the main threat against Lojban&#039;s usefulness in testing Sapir-Whorf, especially if it is an unrecognized one.&lt;br /&gt;
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We can say that any biases in Lojban word-making are consistent, identifiable and to some extent measurable; however, they are probably not important.&lt;br /&gt;
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Researchers will be able to verify this. If the biases are meaningful, linguists of the future will be able to look at Lojban and measure some resulting effect, correlating it with the known and measurable bias. If such an effect exists and can be tied to apparent Sapir-Whorf effects, it might invalidate Lojban as a test tool. Though I doubt if such biases will prove meaningful, there is always a risk that any new scientific tool may have such flaws that invalidate the research results. Lojban is such a tool and is subject to the same risks.&lt;br /&gt;
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An essential factor in the word-making algorithm is appearance, and this is a &#039;market-minded&#039; goal. The method we used gives an objective approach to word-making that eliminates personal biases, and it demonstrates a mind-set towards protecting cultural neutrality. Loglan/Lojban has attracted researchers and students by using its word-making algorithm as an obvious symbol for cultural neutrality, a symbol which your students have correctly noted is at least somewhat illusory.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. In the design of Lojban, how were the lexical items selected? From the perspective of semiology, this is a crucial question. A sign-system constrains thought above all (or at least significantly) by virtue of the organization of experience it imposes on a community through (a) the &amp;quot;cultural units&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; it defines and (b) the web of connotative relations that it establishes between these &amp;quot;cultural units.&amp;quot; See the articles by Eco and the selections from Suzuki.&lt;br /&gt;
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If one were simply to devise new signifiers, new &amp;quot;words,&amp;quot; for the signifieds given by Indo-European schemas (&amp;quot;man,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;woman,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;blue,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sky,&amp;quot; and so on), one would be producing a kind of code into which speakers could simply translate discourse already structured by a natural language like English, Spanish, or Russian.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: First, I&#039;ll note that the first paragraph of this question assumes the validity of Sapir-Whorf; if S/W is false, then sign-systems would not constrain thought.&lt;br /&gt;
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How were Loglan/Lojban word concepts chosen? From a variety of sources, all probably biased in their own way. The hope that we have a neutral word set derives from the variety of ways that words have come into the language, and the large number of people involved in the project over the years, have neutralized any major biases.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we rebuilt the vocabulary for Lojban, we heavily based our concept selection on Brown&#039;s. The source of each of Brown&#039;s concepts may be buried in his notes, but has not been published. Brown has presented some of his basic ideas, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Brown started with some number of root concepts that had been identified by linguists in the 50&#039;s as being found in &#039;all&#039; languages.&lt;br /&gt;
* To this list, he apparently added the work of Ogden in creating the word list for BASIC English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Recognizing that linguistics hadn&#039;t dealt effectively with taboos, he added explicit roots for a variety of biological functions that tend to be primitive in every language.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown did a study, using the most frequent concepts in Helen Eaton&#039;s list of the most frequent concepts in 4 European languages. While this list undoubtedly has a European bias, it served as a check on the primitive word list. Brown checked the first 3000 words of this list, and required, according to Zipf&#039;s law, that the most frequent concepts be the shortest words, i.e. primitives.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown added concepts proposed by him and others rather haphazardly over a period of 30 years. Loglan thus ended up with words for &#039;olive&#039;, &#039;billiards&#039;, and &#039;blonde&#039;. (An exception is that the entire collection of concepts proposed in The Loglanist between 1975 and 1982, dis- appeared without a trace when Brown rebuilt his word list in 1981-2.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there bias in these methods? Yes, especially when the decisions were made by Brown alone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown has expressed a strong bias towards theories that claim biological innateness or instinctiveness of certain concepts. Thus he retained concepts for father and for mother as &#039;biologically primitive&#039;, rather than choosing to make them as the tanru &#039;male-parent&#039; and &#039;female-parent&#039;. To Brown, mother is something more than &#039;female-parent&#039; for biological reasons. For similar reasons, noting the wide use of human and animal body parts as the basis for metaphor in all languages, Brown decided that a large list of body parts are primitive &#039;biological&#039; concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The theory of biological innateness may be true; its assumption without proof is an identified bias. Because it is a known bias, it can be used positively in watching for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown&#039;s individual biases have been corrected, or at least ameliorated, by the extensive redevelopment of the language over the last several years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over time, the Eaton list analysis was expanded. This analysis gave birth to the dissenting opinion that primitive words should be selected on the basis of usefulness in making tanru, and not on some innate &#039;basicness&#039;. Brown disagreed, and while he was in charge of the language, usefulness per se was not a factor unless the chosen primitive could be justified on the basis of Eaton frequency.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we remade the words for Lojban, we accepted the &#039;usefulness&#039; criterion as a primary consideration, choosing to make the gismu list a set of &#039;root&#039; concepts chosen primarily for building tanru, and not a set of &#039;basic&#039; concepts (more on this below in the response to jyjym.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We reviewed Brown&#039;s list word by word, attempting to justify each in terms of either its ability to be used in tanru covering the most frequent words in the Eaton list, on one of Brown&#039;s scientific criteria, or on high frequency in the Eaton list coupled with an inability to express the concept as a tanru of other gismu. Where there was doubt, we deferred to Brown&#039;s earlier decisions, in order to enhance chances for reconciliation.&lt;br /&gt;
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During this review, one final criteria was adopted, based on the work of Paul Doudna and others. The words were divided into semantic categories. If there were several words in a semantic category, we added other words, even if of lesser frequency, to complete the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our re-evaluation actually took place at least 4 times, with concepts being added and removed. A final review against Roget&#039;s Thesaurus sought to verify that we had allowed for the entire range of semantic thought, although there is plenty of room for addition of new concepts if admissions are identified. In general, we have tried to err on the side of inclusion; the inclusion of a word does not mean that it will be used, while the exclusion of a word means that it won&#039;t be.&lt;br /&gt;
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(Lojban development has often accomplished cultural neutrality by inclusion, rather than by exclusion. The existence of a language feature in any culture makes that feature a candidate for incorporation. Lojban thus allows many competing features as alternative expression forms; we choose one feature over another only when there is an unreconcilable conflict.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Our gismu list, considered as &#039;basic concepts&#039;, could not be thought bias-free. No list could be - the very adopting of a set of words as &#039;basic&#039; would bias the language towards concepts associated with those words. Lojban instead emphasizes providing &#039;semantic coverage&#039; of the entire space of potential human thought, through the combination of gismu, tanru, and lujvo. The form of the word is not intended to be an indication of semantic import or primtive merit. This philosophy frees us from much excessive concern that biases in our gismu list invalidate Lojban&#039;s linguistic usefulness.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result, the exact mapping of the gismu to the semantic space, expressed by their use in tanru, does not yet exist. The speakers of the language will make that mapping. They will determine exactly &#039;what the words mean&#039;, and this will be the final elimination of a priori cultural bias from the word set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban&#039;s set of gismu concepts is significantly different from any other language, the semantic map that will result must also be different for this reason. Three examples follow:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban has a gismu for computer, a concept that didn&#039;t exist a hundred years ago. Clearly the Lojban semantic map of concepts related to computers must be different than any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
* In kinship terminology, Lojban, possibly uniquely, has sex-neutral concepts for all kinship relationships (as well as 5 pairs of sex-linked words to allow specification of sex where it is important to a person); it also allows se- mantic distinction at the primitive level between biological parent and rearing parent, and there is even a current proposal for a gismu that would permit one to avoid making such a distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
* In colors, we have a set of about a dozen colors, which can be equally modified in tanru to indicate blends, or for &#039;pale&#039; or &#039;intense&#039;. tanru can also be made for association with physical objects (sea green vs. pea green, etc.) The size of the set of colors is towards the maximum found as &#039;primitive&#039; in language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these cases should have a significant effect on the Lojban semantic map, causing it to differ from any natural language. Multiply this effect by all of the other gismu and Lojban&#039;s map will undoubtedly have patterns that we can&#039;t yet even imagine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The best assurance that we have that Lojban will not be a code for another language is its grossly different structural basis: predicate grammar. Any Lojban predicate word (brivla) has exactly one place structure, and hence one denotation. This immediately militates against transferring connotations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure effect is especially strong when forming tanru, and hence lujvo, which will eventually form the bulk of the language vocabulary. Thus, when Michael Helsem attempts to transfer the odd English metaphor &#039;purple prose&#039; to Lojban in his writings below, his tanru &amp;quot;zirpu lojbo&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;zirjbo&amp;quot; is obviously invalid for Lojban; one would have to be able to define in the place structure what chromatic aspect of the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;purple&amp;quot;, and by what standard. Similarly, a &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot; is not going to be expressed in Lojban as &amp;quot;skami bajra&amp;quot;, which would more likely connote the &#039;Bionic Woman&#039; running down the street in tennis shoes while a printer built into her back spits out digits of &#039;pi&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At first, people will no doubt make such semantic transferences. But assuming that people learn to think in Lojban, it will quickly prove difficult to continue such encoding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, those of us who assemble dictionaries and word lists militantly watch to prevent any obvious transference of Englishisms, our worst problem while we have mostly native English speakers. Indeed, I suspect that we have a bias against English metaphor, and are prone to turn to our Chinese dictionary to confirm any permanent choice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sticking with gismu place structures, we similarly avoid problems. As noted in the Esperanto discussion, &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;good&amp;quot;) is not a comparative. A different word (&amp;quot;xagmau&amp;quot;) would be used for the comparative, and a third (&amp;quot;xagrai&amp;quot;) for the superlative. But also in the concept &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; is an &#039;observer/evaluator&#039; who opines the property of goodness and a &#039;purpose/beneficiary&#039; so that the concept is really &amp;quot;good for&amp;quot;. The claim that there may be an absolute good that isn&#039;t &#039;for&#039; someone or something requires a different concept, shall we call it &#039;virtue&#039; for argument, that has to be a different word with a different, derived or primi- tive place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final obvious effect of predicates is the blurring between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. While this might have less drastic an effect on Chinese semantic transference, Lojban uses a single word for &amp;quot;caringly&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;caring&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;take care of&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;caretaker&amp;quot;. While the four are obviously related in English, each has unique connotations tied to its nature as noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. In Lojban, all of those connotations which remain consistent with the single place structure are combined and blended, forming a new meaning for the predicate word &amp;quot;kurji&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. One question, related to the preceding concerns, to which my students kept returning was this: will speakers of Lojban really be able to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; of experience imposed upon them by their native languages? Will they really be able to think in Lojban, instead of translating into Lojban, and, if so, is Lojban sufficiently inter- cultural to permit its speakers to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; that they acquired in learning their native languages?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Students were accordingly somewhat skeptical about the feasibility of an empirical test of the Whorfian Hypothesis. How, exactly, would the learning of Lojban as a second language enable the Whorfian Hypothesis to be tested? I must admit that I don&#039;t quite understand what one would test and how.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: I think the first half the question was answered by the previous discussion. By necessity, learning to think in Lojban will require a drastic reforming of one&#039;s semantic maps beyond that achievable by translating from the native tongue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no proof that &amp;quot;thinking in Lojban&amp;quot; is possible. We&#039;ll undoubtedly know within a year or two. We do have much anecdotal evidence. Lojbanists, who tend to be creative people and word-players in the first place, have habitually used Loglan/Lojban to create metaphors, then en- tertained themselves with the implications of the place structures as I did above with &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot;. Some Loglan/Lojban usages, where they most clearly express what the speaker wants, have already crept back to English. Thus Jim Brown has for years used old Loglan anaphora in English as sex-neutral pronouns, in place of various English pronouns. &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; and other &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot; pejoratives are slowly coming to replace English pejoratives in Nora and my everyday English speech.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I myself have minimal experience in actually learning other languages, but I&#039;ve been told that to learn a language fluently, you have to be able to &#039;think&#039; in it, and adopt the &#039;maps&#039; associated with the second language. In the case of Lojban, this will be a Lojbanic map - not an English one. Can a Lojbanic map be learned? Second language learners have learned new languages (and their maps) both similar and drastically different from their own. Studies of English speakers using BASIC English indicate that if the new language is too similar to the old, it is actually harder to learn the new map. The Lojban map will have some similarities with the Chinese one, since they have similar methods of compounding tanru. It is unclear whether Lojban&#039;s unique grammar will cause any problems in learning its map. I suspect not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether second language learners are adequate candidates for a Sapir-Whorf test has been subject to debate. Some believe that proper use of controls will allow a significant Sapir-Whorf effect to be verified. Others believe that we won&#039;t be able to test Sapir-Whorf until we have speakers who are raised to be bilingual, or even monolingual in Lojban from birth. Such a requirement won&#039;t be viable for some years, of course (there have been small numbers of Esperanto &#039;native speakers&#039;, so it isn&#039;t unthinkable that Lojban will one day support &#039;natives&#039;, too.).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second half, on testing Sapir-Whorf, can&#039;t be fully answered. Jim Brown proposed a flawed approach in his new edition of Loglan 1. John Parks-Clifford (pc) has written on the subject a couple of times. See JL6, JL7, and the essays at the end of the last issue JL10, for details on the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Skepticism is valid and useful. We believe we&#039;ve created a tool that will display Sapir-Whorf effects if there are any, and which is sufficiently independent of natural language to allow isolation of effects to determine if their cause is a Sapir-Whorf effect, or something else. The problem now is to build a speaker base, and develop the means of measuring any perceived effect and ruling out non- Sapir-Whorf causes. Skeptics are the best source of people to poke holes in inadequate methods. (I should note that pc, our most &#039;forward&#039; methodologist at this point, does not believe that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is valid. Truly a healthy skepticism for an experiment like this.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Once Lojban comes to be used as an instrument of communication, won&#039;t idioms naturally develop, thereby undermining its designed explicitness? The development of idioms is a natural phenomenon in any language that is actually used. And yet idioms are, arguable, the products of the culture-community of those who use a language. Wouldn&#039;t the inevitable emergence of idioms and &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; defeat some of the purposes for which Lojban was created?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consequently, students asked, wouldn&#039;t Lojban be contaminated by the cultures of those who used it--and, as a result, lose not only some of its explicitness and univocality, but also some of its cultural neutrality?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: The development of idiom and slang is not well understood, although it is perceived to be uni- versal. The processes of slang development may indeed be a measurable Sapir-Whorf effect. What type of idiom, if any, develops in Lojban, and to what extent is explicitness lost? We&#039;ll certainly find out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has, by the way, a methodology for importing words from other languages by borrowing. these words are considered &#039;2nd class&#039; words already, and hence slang of a sort. Yet they will be the basis for labelling foods, animals, plants, chemicals, indeed all manner of jargon words and concrete terms that have minimal semantic associations. Lojban &#039;slang&#039;, will, like names, probably never really acquire deep semantic associations. It will probably tend to be avoided where possible, since borrowings tend to be longer, less clear, and harder to combine into compounds, than other words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban slang, in the creative sense of the word, will probably turn towards the creation of new tanru for old ideas. In this way the basic semantic mapping will slowly drift to keep the rigid place structures in line with usage. There will probably be evolution of place structures as well, but it isn&#039;t clear how significant this will be. Probably the occurrence of such drift will be tied to the formation of that peculiarly Lojbanic culture that we discussed above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is not, by the way, inherently explicit. It has an elaborate, carefully thought out, or at least much debated, system for ellipsis. I suspect that Lojban idiom will occur in the direction of simplification through the use of ellipsis, and that therefore, the idiom won&#039;t really mean anything other than what it says. If you want a non- idiomatic reading of the same predicate, you will fill in the non-obvious places normally omitted by the idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban will, to some extent, borrow idioms from natural language cultures, when those idioms are compatible with Lojban grammar and semantics. This isn&#039;t necessarily bad, as long as the borrowing isn&#039;t excessive (turning the language into a code), or linked to one particular culture (causing a bias).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Lojban will (hopefully) indeed become a &#039;natural language&#039; in the sense of having its own culture. If the culture is built by native-speaking Lojbanists, this culture would be the subject of massive sociological and linguistic experimentation, and we would know the answer on Sapir-Whorf. This indeed is the most desirable test for Sapir-Whorf, and methodology questions are generally based on the assumption that we want to know the answer before, and whether or not, such a culture comes to exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Students seemed to be obsessed with the idea that languages are contaminated (or enriched) by culture. Lojban as presented seems innocent of culture. Yet if it were to be used it would be &amp;quot;corrupted&amp;quot; by culture and would therefore escape the intentions of its architects, in particular through the emergence of idioms and slang.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response (brief for once): I hope more than anything else that Lojban grows beyond my meager conceptions and intentions for its potential, and develops its own unique culture. Language is a bigger thing than any one person or small group can control; the French Academy knows this for sure. We have resisted Brown&#039;s attempt to create a Loglan/Lojban Academy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope merely to channel our loss of control away from destructive trends. But if they occur anyway, we still learn something.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. When languages are used, webs of connotative relations emerge: every natural language reflects in this way the history of the community of those who have used it. One signified (rose) suggests another signified in another semantic field (say, romance), which suggests any number of other signifieds. See Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System.&amp;quot; In any language actually used this web of a-logical relations would emerge. Wouldn&#039;t the emergence of such a web, in the community of speakers of Lojban, undermine its claims to be culturally neutral, fully explicit, unambiguous, and so on?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: If the web develops totally internally, from a spontaneous cultural development, it would not violate cultural neutrality. I&#039;ve already said that Lojban need not be explicit, nor, especially in the area of tanru, is Lojban semantically unambiguous. I think that we have retained enough flexibility in the creative aspects of Lojban to make the internal cultural development of such a web consistent with the areas that we have kept rigid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, we have retained, primitives chosen by Jim Brown for body parts, animals, and materials that are metaphorically used by many cultures; yes, even &#039;rose&#039;. We recognize that they are the potential seeds of bias. Because we know these words are there, we can watch for their use and guide the community away from biased use in- sofar as we can recognize it. If the canary dies, we&#039;ll be wary of poison.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Languages in use cannot be stabilized: they develop organically through usage by a community, adapting themselves to the needs of their speakers. Wouldn&#039;t that be the case with Lojban? What would be the consequences ofthis inevitable organic development?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: I think this was answered in response to 4. and 5., with a little hint in the last question. While I don&#039;t see a Lojban Academy trying to prevent organic development, there may be an organization trying to keep the development moving in a positive direction. This has generally been the function of poets; more recently of English teachers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that we have talked about &#039;baselining&#039; the language only long enough to ensure that critical mass exists internally among speakers of the language to resist external forces for change. We don&#039;t mind change if it is done by Lojban speakers thinking in and using their language in the way they choose. That is how culture develops.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, except in vocabulary growth, I think that linguistic drift has drastically slowed in the 20th century due to the printed word, nearly universal education, and mass communication. Where drift exists,language has tended towards uniformity among speakers rather than variation - hence the increasing use of &amp;quot;The Queen&#039;s English&amp;quot; dialect in Britain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Is the syntax devised for Lojban truly culturally neutral? Derived as it was from the formal logic that has evolved in Western European culture, what claims does it have to cultural neutrality? In Whorf&#039;s essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (enclosed), Whorf wonders whether our logic is truly universal. Does it really derive from something other than an analysis of the shape of thought constrained by Indo-European languages like Greek, Latin, German, and English? Whorf&#039;s article implies that we would possess a very different &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; had our science been bequeathed to us by the American Indians rather than the Western Europeans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: Predicate logic is probably not culturally neutral, nor the assumptions that would cause it to be valued. This is the essence of Brown&#039;s original concept for Loglan/Lojban in a Sapir-Whorf experiment:that metaphysical assumptions and cultural biases be kept to a minimums so that the one extreme bias causes an undeniably significant change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Brown started, we&#039;ve identified other potential sources of Sapir-Whorf effects, most notably the elimination of constraints on thought that develops from our minimization of metaphysical assumptions (like singular/plural and us/them distinctions). These effects WOULD BE culturally neutral, and probably would show up in spite of minor biases other than the big &#039;L&#039; logic bias.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(John Parks-Clifford notes that the content of formal logic, if not the exact form, was independently derived in India and to a lesser extent in China. Every problem in Western logic turned up and was solved in India. Chinese logical thought was equally sophisticated, but its development was aborted after only a few decades, by political turmoil rather than by direct cultural rejection, and never re-emerged. Meanwhile, the Western form embraces contributions from Arabic as well as European sources. Logic was chosen as the basis for Lojban due to its simplicity of structure as well as for predictably significant Sapir-Whorf effects.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that while logic is not the only strong force guiding Lojban development that stems from Western thought.Other forces include the counters to logic such as &#039;liberty&#039;, &#039;free choice&#039;, and &#039;romantic ideals&#039;. Funny that no one worries about these forces destroying Lojban&#039;s cultural neutrality. Maybe we should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For that matter, as this question implies, modern science and the interest in the question of whether the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true also are based on Western tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think this type of question should be left for the philosophers, who may come up with a useful answer.Otherwise, in the extreme, we end up questioning whether the fact that we do our science the way we do causes the universe we observe to change, making the observations, and the science thus invalid. Sort of a Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle on a grand scale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science is valuable as an endeavor if it gives useful results. Does knowing more about the nature of language give useful results? If Lojban is a language, will studying it teach us more about language? Does the fact that we&#039;ve defined some measurable control on the design of the language improve the chances that we can learn useful information from study Lojban? If the answer to these questions is &#039;yes&#039;, then Lojban will be worthwhile as a project, and valuable to those who learn it, those who study it, and the world that will be affected by it.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
=== Course Outline and Bibliography ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
January, 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TELL-TALE SIGNS:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An Introduction to Semiology&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Required Texts:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Marshall Blonsky, ed., On Signs (Baltimore, 1985): selections from Blonsky&#039;s collection will be marked with the letter &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other readings to be distributed in class: these readings will be marked with an asterisk (*) in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
SCHEDULE&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 8/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 9/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
INTRODUCTION: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;social Life as a Sign System,&amp;quot; from David Robey, ed., Structuralism: An Introduction (1973), pp. 57-72.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Pierre Guiraud, Semiology (1975), pp. 1-4 and 82-98.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE WHORFIAN HYPOTHESIS: LANGUAGES AS WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
: *Benjamin Whorf, &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (1940), Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, ed. John B. Carroll (1956), pp. 207-219.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Clyde Kluckhohn, &amp;quot;The Gift of Tongues,&amp;quot; Mirror for Man (1949); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language, Fourth Edition (1974), ed. Wallace L. Anderson and N. C. Stageberg, pp. 38-47.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 10/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;How Culture Conditions the Colours We See,&amp;quot; B 157-715.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Anthony G. Wheeler, &amp;quot;Pitfalls of Perception,&amp;quot; The Skeptical Inquirer, Summer, 1988; rpt. in The Utne Reader, Sept./Oct. 1989, p. 100.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HOW LANGUAGES WORD AS SIGN-SYSTEMS&lt;br /&gt;
:*F. de Sussure, Course in General Linguistics, pp. 7-17, 65-78, 111-122.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Takao Suzuki, Words in Context: A Japanese Perspective on Language and Culture (1984), pp. 7-44.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 11/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ARTIFICIAL LANGUAGES: THE ATTEMPT TO ESCAPE CULTURE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Read these selections in the order indicated. Try to get a sense of how each of these languages sounds and how each &amp;quot;works&amp;quot; as a way of expressing ideas. Where the texts tell you how to pronounce words and phrases, try it on your own. Where the readings provide texts in the languages and literal translation, examine these carefully. In examining the Esperanto passages look for words that you recognize from your knowledge of English, Spanish, French, and other European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --ESPERANTO&lt;br /&gt;
: *George Cox, &amp;quot;Preface to the First Edition&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;L&#039;Espero,&amp;quot; A Grammar and Commentary on the International Language Esperanto, Second Edition, pp. v-xvii and xx-xxi.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Arthur Baker, &amp;quot;The Alphabet,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Sounds,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Exercise 1,&amp;quot; The American Esperanto Book (1907), pp. 7-11 and 78-80.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Baker, &amp;quot;Rules of the Grammar,&amp;quot; pp. 12-18.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Cox, &amp;quot;Conversation (Interparolado),&amp;quot; pp. 311-315.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --LOGLAN/LOJBAN&lt;br /&gt;
: *Don Oldenburg, &amp;quot;Tongue-Twister of a Language,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle: Sunday punch, Nov. 26, 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; Scientific American, June, 1960, pp. 52-63.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;What is Lojban? (la lojban mo),&amp;quot; 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;Translation of Lesson 6 Reading Text: lenu vitke lei rarna (Visiting Nature),&amp;quot; [Lojban Textbook] (1989), 6.43-6.46.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 15/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: DUE: ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY. Hand in a xerox of your annotated bibliography (keep a copy for yourself).&lt;br /&gt;
: Consult the Borzoi Handbook to refresh your memory on the proper form for entries in a bibliography. Annotate each entry: after reviewing the item, briefly describe it and explain how it might be useful to you in your investigation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A MODEL OF COMMUNICATION&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: T. Sebeok, &amp;quot;Pandora&#039;s Box: How and Why to Communicate 10,000 Years into the Future,&amp;quot; B 448-466.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SIGN-THEORY&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, first part of &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-7 (to middle of the page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 16/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SEMIOLOGY AS A METHOD OF ANALYSIS&lt;br /&gt;
: New York Times, &amp;quot;What&#039;s the real message of &#039;Casablanca&#039;? Or of a Rose?&amp;quot; B 424-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Wlad Godzich, &amp;quot;The Semiotics of Semiotics,&amp;quot; B 421-26 only (you need not read beyond Sec. 2: &amp;quot;On Cowboy Boots&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;When Cains of Difference Intersect: A Lesson,&amp;quot; B 441-43.&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;Casablanca, or the Cliches are Having a Ball,&amp;quot; B 35-38. (Think of Who Killed Roger Rabbit?, as well as Casablanca, if you have seen them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second Half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 17/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *P. Guiraud, Semiology, 82-98: review.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System&amp;quot;: review.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: INTRODUCTION TO BODY LANGUAGE&lt;br /&gt;
: *Charles Downey, &amp;quot;A Guide to No-Fail Flirting,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle, May 17,1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot; (1971); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 318-29.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa&amp;quot; (1961), rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 330-35.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 18/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: READING OTHER CULTURES&lt;br /&gt;
: Jean Franco, &amp;quot;Killing Priests, Nuns, Women, Children,&amp;quot; B 414-20&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;The Way of Masks,&amp;quot; B 186-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Review:&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 22/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: LOOKING AT MODERN CULTURE: BECOMING AWARE OF &amp;quot;CULTURE&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: P. Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 99-104.&lt;br /&gt;
: Roland Barthes, Mythologies (1972), pp. 9-12, 50-52, 58-64, 84-87, and 109-31.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 23/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: U. Eco, &amp;quot;Strategies of Lying,&amp;quot; B 3-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Edmundo Desnoes, &amp;quot;Cuba Made Me So,&amp;quot; B 384-402.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Introduction . . .,&amp;quot; B xxvii-xxxv and xl-xliv.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 24/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: MARKETING AS APPLIED SEMIOLOGY&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Semiotics in the Marketplace,&amp;quot; B 434-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Milton Glaser, &amp;quot;I Listen to the Market, &amp;quot; B 467-75.&lt;br /&gt;
: Ronald Weintraub, &amp;quot;Lifting the Veil,&amp;quot; B 475-480.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Matthew Klein, &amp;quot;And Above All, Please Do Not Disturb,&amp;quot; B 481-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 25/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: HOW THE MEDIA (RE-)CREATE THE EVENTS THEY REPORT&lt;br /&gt;
: Daniel Dayan and Elihu Katz, &amp;quot;Electronic Ceremonies: Television Performs a Royal Wedding,&amp;quot; B 16-32.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Feb 1/ SIGN-SYSTEMS: CULTURE-BOUND WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Scholes, &amp;quot;Is There a Fish in This Text?&amp;quot; B 308-320.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michel de Certeau, &amp;quot;The Jabbering of Social Life,&amp;quot; B 146-54.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was written by Ralph Dumain over a year ago. We haven&#039;t printed it until now, because, as a bibliography relating to Sapir-Whorf, it is incomplete in omitting some of the basic references needed to understand what the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is. Dr. Gorsch&#039;s course outline at least partially remedies this. Readers seeking more on Sapir-Whorfshould also investigate the bibliography of either edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bibliography on Language and Thought ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Ralph Dumain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The question of the relation of thought to language is a multifaceted one and has been approached by such disciplines as philosophy, linguistics proper, sociology of language, sociology, anthropology, psychology, political science, and educational policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This selected bibliography is not representative of the field of language and cognition as a whole, nor of its historical evolution, nor of its most current work, nor of its most significant contributions. I have selected, in a nonsystematic way, works which illustrate different angles from which the issue may be considered and which illuminate the problems to be confronted. This bibliography reflects my interest in the high-level aspects of language and cognition, e.g.. the strong version of Whorf&#039;s hypothesis [the world view issue], particularly the human ability to formulate and critique concepts. For me, the issue of the ability to form and interrelate abstract concepts is exclusively an issue of semantics. The practical and political issue is the mastery of word meanings and the conquest of the opacity of semantic systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Omitted are works by William Labov and Basil Bernstein, two of the foremost researchers of the 1960&#039;s on issues of cognitive ability and social dialects. Bernstein was a pioneer in the comparison of standard English vs. British working class dialects, the formulation of the notions of elaborated and restricted code, and the investigation of different uses of language as social reinforcements. Labov presented a wealth of ethnographic data to prove that ghetto-dwelling Black Americans using so-called Black English were perfectly capable of abstract thinking, refuting assertions to the contrary. Labov also used transformational-generative grammar to analyze the syntax of Black English and to refute superstitions about linguistic deficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides paying more attention to recent developments in linguistic theory, one must also delve into the pragmatics of language more thoroughly, where much of the hidden dynamics of language and social control lie. There is much in the literature of philosophy, especially philosophy of science, that bears upon the tacit assumptions of Loglan ideologists about the nature of language, the limits to thought, the role of formal logic, and the nature of creativity and novelty in the progress of thought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Annotated Bibliography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bisseret, Noelle (1979) - Education, Class Language and Ideology. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul.&lt;br /&gt;
: Bisseret examines the views of sociologists of language who analyze class dialects, such as Basil Bernstein.Bisseret asserts that the logicality and coherence of the world belong to the dominant class.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Carroll, John B. (1964) - Language and Thought. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, Inc. See chapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and cognition&amp;quot;, esp. the section &amp;quot;The linguistic-relativity hypothesis&amp;quot; (p. 106-110).&lt;br /&gt;
: Carroll is skeptical of the strong Whorfian thesis. Evidence is lacking that grammatical differences between languages signify cognitive differences. He gives examples to show misleading extrapolations based only on linguistic evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chomsky, Noam (1973) - See Schaff, Adam.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Friedrich, Paul (1979) - Language, Context, and the Imagination: Essays by Paul Friedrich, selected and introduced byAnwar S. Dil. Stanford: Stanford University Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Friedrich disagrees with Whorf&#039;s views on language and metaphysics, but accepts the strong thesis in the realm ofpoetic language and its relation to the imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gyekye, Kwame (1977) - &amp;quot;Akan language and the materialist thesis: a short essay on the relation between philosophy and language&amp;quot;, in Studies in Language, vol. 1, no. 2, p. 237-244.&lt;br /&gt;
: Gyekye opposes linguistic relativity in philosophy. Examples are given of mentalistic linguistic expressions in English which are expressed physicalistically in Akan. A linguistic relativist would conclude that the Akan people are materialists, yet Akan ontology is actually dualistic, with an absolute distinction between body and soul.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Havranek, Bohuslav (1964) - &amp;quot;The functional differentiation of the standard language&amp;quot;, in: A Prague School Reader on Esthetics, Literary Structure, and Style, selected and translated from Czech by Paul L. Garvin. Washington: Georgetown University Press; p. 3-16.&lt;br /&gt;
: On lexical and syntactic aspects of standard vs. folk speech, different modes of utilization of the devices of language, intellectualization, automatization and foregrounding. Intellectualization of language makes possible precision, rigor, and abstractness. Syntactic devices enable an integrated structure of sentences. Automatization is the creation of conventional expressions with definite meanings; once established, an automatization does not attract attention to itself linguistically. Foregrounding is the use of language (usually uncommon) that attracts attention to itself, e.g.. live poetic metaphor. An expression automatized in one context may be foregrounded in another. Automatizations of science are different from those in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
: This article is important for two complementary reasons: (1) It proposes requisites of intellectual language,especially the ability to express abstractions, which I believe is the key issue in being able to formulate and change one&#039;s world view; (2) automatization, in creating conventional expressions, not only makes possible the expression of concepts, but an automatization as such is no longer metaphorically alive and so no longer binds a thought to its particular linguistic expression (thus negating a putative Whorfian limitation on thought).&lt;br /&gt;
: Foregrounding is relevant to Loglan because as Loglan is entirely new, there are no cliches, no tiresome or worn expressions. Loglan seems poetic to some of its propagandists because the entire language is foregrounded. What might otherwise be banal seems to be exquisitely poetic. Whorf foregrounded Hopi grammar, making it a source of live metaphors for him if not for the Hopi themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jackendoff, Ray (1983) - Semantics and Cognition. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Deals with grammatical constraint, semantic structure and conceptual structure, and theory of representation. This reference is included not as an endorsement of a particular semantic theory but as an example of one of the more sophisticated recent treatments of semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kahane, Henry and Renee (1984) - &amp;quot;Linguistic aspects of sociopolitical keywords&amp;quot;, in Language Problems and Language Planning, vol. 8, no. 2, p. 143-160.&lt;br /&gt;
: The Kahanes examine the semantics of ideologically loaded words (keywords) and the processes by which they evolve over time. I think that ideological semantic systems create the most crucial biases in language, and so this article is important.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lakoff, George and Johnson, Mark (1980) - Metaphors We Live By. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: The authors make an important study of the metaphorical basis of language. In the final chapters they argue for an extreme relativism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Langacker, Ronald W. (1976) - &amp;quot;Semantic representations and the linguistic relativity hypothesis&amp;quot;, in Foundations of Language, vol. 14, p. 307-357.&lt;br /&gt;
: Langacker tries to formulate the hypothesis in a non-vacuous manner, and ultimately rejects the strong version,basing himself on a distinction between primary conceptual structures and the semantic representations into which thought is coded. Langacker uses the framework of generative semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Levitas, Maurice (1974) - Marxist Perspectives in the Sociology of Education. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul. Seechapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and deprivation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: Levitas articulates the basic ideas of Vygotsky&#039;s view of language and thought and its educational implications.He accepts Vygotsky&#039;s view that word-meaning is the unit of verbal thought. Using Vygotsky and Luria, Levitas argues that working class children must be helped to master the elaborated code and to achieve in linguistic expression freedom from the context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Macnamara, John. 1970. &amp;quot;Bilingualism and thought&amp;quot;, in Georgetown University Round Table on Languages and Linguistics 1970: Bilingualism and Language Contact, edited by James E. Alatis; Washington: Georgetown University Press; p.25-45.&lt;br /&gt;
: Includes discussion by other participants. The inadequacies of Whorf&#039;s formulations are analyzed. Macnamara urgently emphasizes the need for a semantic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newmeyer, Frederick J. (1983) - Grammatical Theory: Its Limits and Its Possibilities. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Newmeyer clarifies the nature and intent of generative linguistics, answering common objections. Newmeyer deals with distinctive advantages of generative linguistics, its potential applications, and the role of other types of linguistics that deal with aspects of language outside of the reach of grammatical theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986a) - The Politics of Linguistics. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: This is an excellent treatment of the history of linguistics and its internal and external politics. Newmeyer attacks Whorf&#039;s notions about grammar and world view and gives practical examples of Whorfianism&#039;s racist implications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986b) - Linguistic Theory in America. 2nd edition. Orlando: Academic Press, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
: This differs from the first edition in that it abridges treatment of earlier developments such as rise of abstract syntax and generative semantics in the late 1960&#039;s while adding information on recent developments. This book gives a feel for the problems and evolution of theories, and shows how the rise and fall of competing theories or versions of a theory come about as responses to real problems. A reader can also see that Chomsky&#039;s particular theoretical formulations form only part (and not always the most influential current) of the stream of modern linguistic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rossi-Landi, Ferruccio (1973) - Ideologies of Linguistic Relativity. The Hague: Mouton.&lt;br /&gt;
: This book analyzes the shortcomings of and the ideology behind the doctrine of linguistic relativity, including the white liberal guilt about Indians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Schaff, Adam (1973) - Language and Cognition. Translated by Olgierd Wojtasiewicz; edited by Robert S. Cohen;introduction by Noam Chomsky. New York: McGraw-Hill. [Originally published in Polish, 1964.]&lt;br /&gt;
: Chomsky&#039;s introduction is a valuable critique of Whorf and of superficial understanding of languages. He shows that the imputation to a language of a conceptual system about time based on its tense system does not hold up to examination. The English tense system with its use of verbal auxiliaries (including modals) suggests a different conception of time than idea of time characteristic of modern English-speaking and other European peoples.&lt;br /&gt;
: Schaff gives a history of ideas (mostly in philosophy) about language and thought from 18th century German idealism, through Neo kantianism, conventionalism, logical positivism, to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and then adds his own thoughts on the matter. Brown&#039;s Scientific American article on Loglan is referenced in the bibliography but is not mentioned in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vygotsky, Lev (1986) - Language and Thought. 2nd edition. Translation newly revised and edited by Alex Kozulin.Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Vygotsky was a pioneer in the area of developmental psychology, language and thought.&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said in one response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class questions that I hoped that Lojban would move beyond the ideas that I had for it. It already has. The following essay describes a potential use for Lojban that I never had thought of,and have absolutely no experience that would help me form an opinion on its viability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I won&#039;t. Let&#039;s let David speak for himself. I welcome other&#039;s comments on his ideas, and I&#039;ll print any that seem of general interest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing ==&lt;br /&gt;
by David C. Morrow&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stream of consciousness, or subjective writing, was developed by Joyce, Proust, Woolf, Faulkner, and others to convey a character&#039;s immediate awareness and mental activities (an &amp;quot;interior monolog&amp;quot;). Leon Edel, who terms works using it &amp;quot;Modern Psychological Novels,&amp;quot; lists four salient elements.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each work or section of a work takes the consistent viewpoint of a single character. The reader must puzzle out what is happening from the character&#039;s interior monolog. Time moves according to the associations of the character&#039;s thoughts and memories rather than a simple linear flow. Finally, although authors using this mode are realists, these very devices force them to be symbolists in order to create the impression of being alive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is the second and fourth elements that present problems for author and reader. Part of the difficulty is that persons whose background enables them to enjoy piecing together the subtle but objective clues of mystery novels may not be so adept at empathizing with other&#039;s feelings or seeing the clues that reveal them. About that the writer can do little but keep following (or decide not to follow) his or her artistic bent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But these complex puzzles hold difficulties even for persons who enjoy them that their creators may not have foreseen. It is hard enough to show the thoughts of individuals contemporary to a reader; when a novel has become non contemporary, like those of the writers mentioned above, or is about an earlier time (consider McKinlay Kantor&#039;s Andersonville, written in the 1950&#039;s and intended to represent the consciousness of participants in the War Between the States) the difficulty is increased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because, for example, few modern persons depend on horses for transportation and so most lack the associations with them or the knowledge of their behavior that must have been common to people at and before the turn of the Twentieth Century. The same might apply to candles or to certain foods. Again, the little sidelines of style and fashion, the political and social quirks and nuances of a time, like geographical localisms, would figure large in the mind of a participant yet disappear even from historical footnotes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if a storyteller can discover and work there into a character&#039;s mind, they may require as much explanation as unfamiliar elements in an old text. During the 1982 and 1986 episodes of murder by poisoned Tylenol capsules, offering someone -- stranger, boss, spouse -- that medicine carried a host of special if temporary meanings. To one not alive then, the unexplained appearance of such an incident in a story set in those years would be puzzling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same thing must apply even to ordinary narrative writing about members of another culture; the readers may not be as familiar with that life-way as the author. This often forces the artist to employ what are supposed to be common human traits, such as romantic love, that may not be common at all; Classical cultures regarded romantic love as a form of lunacy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Historical writers, who are nearly always depicting foreign cultures even when their setting is the recognizable antecedent of the readers&#039; own, generally commit such anachronisms. Often they make their story accessible by depicting &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; characters in rebellion against their culture. That device is an anachronism in most cases, since tolerance even of one&#039;s own nonconformity is largely a Modern Western value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subjective writing might serve better in depicting social changes. One might wish to show why history took this turn once and another when a like situation again arose, or to examine through the eyes of characters, who likely did not intend their actions&#039; present results, the origin of some philosophical or religious idea. An example of this last might be someone who realized that human sacrifice does not necessarily make the crops grow or that paternity is part of reproduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Such persons&#039; concepts and motives would differ so vastly from ours that even were an author to reconstruct their consciousness with a degree of accuracy, the story value would be lost because it would be difficult for readers to untangle them without corresponding scholarship. Unless, that is, there were also some such way of clarifying them as anchoring description in physical reality as we know it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When a character in a subjective narrative lacks knowledge or understanding the author may juxtapose some other person&#039;s viewpoint or even an omniscient one. Faulkner used both to clarify his retarded character Benjy&#039;s innocent and atemporal impressions, and Durrell provided an entire volume of his Quartet with the omniscient viewpoint on one character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This would not be enough in many cases. If the characters have very primitive ideas, believing, say, that the sun is a beetle or that there is no natural death but that everyone always dies of injury or sorcery, then much of their thinking -- the internal monolog comprising the story narrative -- would seem ridiculous or psychotic if not incomprehensible. In this case it would not help to play one character&#039;s consciousness off against another&#039;s, since they would all share the same assumptions even if their intellects differed. The use of a deliberate anachronism would only work for current readers, even when dealing with contemporary characters, since nobody can know with what values or types future readers will identify. Only objective narrative of some type will enable one to make such a tale both universal and particular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is where Lojban can be useful. A writer could use a natural language to construct a symbolic flow of consciousness belonging to the characters, filled with verifiable and if necessary imagined elements, impressions, feelings, and motives. Linguistic devices can be used, and purely idiosyncratic character traits developed within a strange conceptual frame.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clarify what is objectively happening or convey meanings of invented symbols and transitory elements without interrupting the story&#039;s dramatic movement, and do so in a way that will (we hope) remain accessible to future readers, the writer can use lojban to describe the physical setting, the movements, the actions, even in some cases the dialog of the characters whose interior monolog is in some artificially specialized form of English -- or French, or Spanish, or whatever. Lojban descriptions may either be given in separate chapters or sections, or interspersed with the streams of characters&#039; awareness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not only would this provide the readers an anchor in relating the characters&#039; minds to theirs, but also in the case of completely abnormal persons in alien cultures allow insight into their minds. Finally, the story could retain its unity as an artistic whole without anachronisms or intrusions from outside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Michael Helsem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of this issue&#039;s Lojban writing comes from one person. This is partially due to space and time, and partially because Michael Helsem has been so prolific in Lojban over the past few months. Michael has taken to heart what I&#039;ve said too many times: the language is easy to learn if you just try to use it. The writings in this issue prove that point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You&#039;ve seen a couple pieces of Michael&#039;s work in JL10, written before Michael ordered the textbook lessons last fall. Michael wrote the following after reading Lesson 4, which calls for a student to write a self-description; it wasn&#039;t particularly grammatical, as you&#039;ll see in the translation section which shows what he actually wrote. We didn&#039;t get a chance to provide feedback to Michael until after JL10 was out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Michael received JL10 in late January, he had still not had direct feedback from us. However, seeing his own article saying that Lojban could be used to write poetry, Michael took up his own challenge. We had 2 limericks and 2 longer poems in February. Although he had merely finished the lessons, the JL10 samples gave Michael enough good examples of good Lojban that I had only to change two or three words in each to make the grammar correct. These poems are also printed below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally we responded to Michael&#039;s self-description with Nora&#039;s detailed review, which is given in the translation section. I have since gotten a letter from Michael every week or two - 2 or 3 pages handwritten in Lojban (with interlinear translations - please don&#039;t send me untranslated Lojban until we both know that you are writing nearly error free. Otherwise, if your Lojban isn&#039;t close to correct, we&#039;ll get extremely confused, and if it&#039;s reasonably close, we won&#039;t be able to comment on subtle shades of meaning - we have to take the Lojban as meaning what you intend). The lot includes a couple more poems, and a couple of typewritten sheets of &#039;poetic tanru&#039;. While there are occasional malglico anglicisms, Michael has in 6 months and about 5 or 6 writing attempts become about as good a Lojban writer as there is outside of those few of us working on defining the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has done this only with the level 3 materials including only the 6 textbook lessons so far published, and the outdated cmavo list. While he has studied other languages, Michael is not a linguist. He does not have LogFlash or flash cards - he&#039;s learning the vocabulary by using it. But I don&#039;t mind it a bit if someone gets a word wrong because they don&#039;t yet know it. You can&#039;t learn a language without making mistakes and learning from them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s that easy - you have to be willing to try writing a couple times, and wait for us to review them (which will get easier as we get more of you up to Michael&#039;s level of proficiency), read the examples printed in these newsletters, and then write a little more - in a few months you&#039;ll be writing as good Lojban as Michael is (no - I&#039;m not promising to make you a publishable poet in a couple of months - just a reasonably competent Lojbanist).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let&#039;s see some more Lojban from the 100 other level 3 Lojbanists, most of whom I haven&#039;t heard from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Self-Description (28 Sept 1989) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra .itu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi.zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys. .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani.ibabo ca le ko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti .ibabotezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loikavidni cu&#039;i .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a caranji toi .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenuko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pufinti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o rinalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa leci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Included in the self-description letter, was a postscript, also in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first two limericks were Michael&#039;s first attempts at original Lojban poetry after the self-description. They each needed a little work, but his errors were minor. He wasn&#039;t too happy with the changes to the first one, since they end up stretching the rhyme and rhythm scheme to the limit of what is acceptable in a limerick. However, if you readwith the annotated stress given in the pronunciation guide, running the syllables together into a single beat where marked (or in one case running three syllables into two beats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As corrected)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            la .uorf. .e la saPIR. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            lenu loi rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i leva sidbo ca genytsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lah .WOHRF. .eh,lah,sah,PEER. poo,PEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -    /         ----,----     /     -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,NOO    loi,rehm,BAHN,goo,lei,MEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -   -      /    -   -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo SEEM,sah leh,kah LAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -----   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
            /gee,heh,PAH,mei nahl,BAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
              -----   /      -   -       /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee KOO,hee,leh,vah,SEED,bo,ca    GEHN,uh,tsee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /      -   -----   /       -  -     /   ------&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2. (Minor corrections approved by author)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            loi    ve cusku cu mo loi se cusku&lt;br /&gt;
            cumda&#039;i  .i    mi danfu lu le sisku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nitcu pa jaspu&lt;br /&gt;
             .uu  .i ku&#039;i na vasru&lt;br /&gt;
            fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /loi,veh,SHOOS,koo,shoo,MO,loi,seh,SHOOS,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /    -    -    /  -   -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoom,DAH,hee .    ee,mee DAHN,foo    loo,leh,SEES,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          -    /   -    -----    /    -      ----     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,NEE,choo,pah,ZHAHS,poo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /.woo.ee KOO,hee,nah,VAHS,roo/&lt;br /&gt;
               ----   /      -   -      /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /fah,REE    ree,khee,SHEE peh,hee LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -    -       /   -   -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3. (20 Mar 1990)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The third limerick was written after I gave him feedback on the first two, and received while I was typing thisnewsletter in. It was almost perfect as written. He had left out a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; and not terminated some &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clauses -mistakes I still make a lot - but his translation and his notes on intent made it trivial to fix them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            sei    lu leka    sarcu li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami&lt;br /&gt;
            cu nenri  .i RA mi se prami&lt;br /&gt;
             .i ku&#039;i le pratci&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nu sisti kei batci&lt;br /&gt;
            le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
        /sei,loo leh,kah,SAHR,shoo lee,hoo,SHMEH,neh nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lo,SHEEZ,rah,zah,SMOON,zheh lo,heh,SKAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /      -   -       /     -   ----    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoo,NEHN,ree .    ee,RAH mee,seh,PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /       -     -  /    -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
            /. ee KOO,hee,leh,PRAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /   -   -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,noo,SEES,tee,kei,BAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -----   /    -    -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,noon,MEHN,khroo . woo TA,hee loi,glah,SLAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /     -     -   /  -      ------    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first of these is Michael&#039;s translation from the Latin of Catallus, which he wrote on 26 Nov 1989, prior to receiving any feedback from us. His grammar had already improved significantly over the self-description, with most ofhis mistakes being wrong choices of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         seide&#039;e se    sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                         prami joi xebni fa mi&lt;br /&gt;
                          .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          do nu&#039;o cusku     .i mi&lt;br /&gt;
                           genai caca jimpe    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          gi ru&#039;i lifri    cai je&lt;br /&gt;
                            dunku ri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                   /sei,deh,heh     seh,SAHN,gah  bee,MUU,moi . nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                       /PRAH,mee,zhoi,KHEHB,nee  fah,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                   /. ee,LOO  lah,heh,DEE,hoo  kee,hah,vau  LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /doh     noo,ho     SHOOS,koo . ee    mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                    /geh,nai . SHAH,shah,ZHEEM,peh  lah,heh,DEH,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /gee,roo,hee     LEE,free  SHAI    zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
                             /DOON,koo ree/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next two poems were written at about the same time as the first two limericks (10 Feb 1990). These, however, are poems of some substance. For whatever reason, Michael made fewer and less serious errors in the longer poems than in the limericks:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              le firgai    pu&#039;u se    vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              fe zo pei    ca rapcpedu cai&lt;br /&gt;
              fa mi .ei    ne tai do pe pu    fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi vimcu ro lei firgai    levi&lt;br /&gt;
              sluni po&#039;u lonu djica .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
              ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i pu    najenai    ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
              mi djuno leri cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
              .a lo nalsti nu fasnu cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
              po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  LOHZH,bo,PEHM,shee gee,heh seh,SHMEH,neh  LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,FEER,gai  poo,hoo,seh,VEEM,shoo  vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /feh zo,PEI  shah,rahp,SHPEH,doo    SHAI/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fah,MEE    .EI  neh,tai,DOH,peh,poo  fee,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo,poh,hee  loi,so,HEE,plo  SEHN,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /.ee,mee,VEEM,shoo  ro,lei,FEER,gai  leh,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /SLOO,nee     po,hoo     lo,noo,JEE,shah . ee,SHEH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /ZHOO,hee,doh,hoo     ree,khee,REH  moo,zhuh,tee,suh,BAHN,ro    po,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,koo,hee  POO  nah,zheh,nai    SHAH,ku/&lt;br /&gt;
          /mee,JOO,no  leh,ree  shoo,muh,MEH,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh  leh,zhei  ree  seh,SKEE,shoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo  po,hee  lo,noo,KAHN,sah  kah,ZMAHK,see/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. AH  lo,NAHL,stee  noo,FAHS,noo     sheesh,CHEE,mah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /po,hah .    AH,sah,hoo  pah,DRAH,tah noo,kah,BEHB,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the following, Michael came close to perfection in grammar. He omitted only the hyphen &#039;r&#039;s in &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; in the final line, while inserting a couple of superfluous but permitted &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s that I left in to avoid changing his sound qualities any more than necessary (plus - as an editor, I prefer to defer to the author where possible). Of course, Michael&#039;s result differs slightly in meaning from the translation he gave me; however, since it is supposed to be Lojban poetry, I&#039;m letting the Lojban take precedence over the English, although I&#039;ll mention the changes needed to match his English translation in the appropriate section below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /loi,kah,ZVAH,tee     vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /tee,heh    lo,noo,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /beh  leh,MOO,heh     ke,LOON,rah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /kah,shoo,kluh,MOOL,no  shoo,KHAHM,goo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,KOO,hee  mee,DRAH,tah,SAHL,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,SKEE,nee,ree  leh,kah,MAHN,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh,lo    MEE,pree,noo,ZAH,stee .    eh . ah,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,noo    kah,VLEE,pah  po,hoo  ro,lo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /teh,PEHN,shoo beh,leh,MOON,zheh,seh,REEN,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,shah  leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /koo  leh,LOON,rah,SHOO,klah  shoo,BEEN,kho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,ree    PAH,mei,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,GO,hee     gee,heh,koo,hee,RO,roi/&lt;br /&gt;
          /poo  bee,hee,shah,ZGAH,nah  leh,mee,kah,NO,mei  zhee,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was dated 12 Mar 1990. It was perfectly grammatical as written, although we&#039;ve changed two lujvo minimally after discussion with Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
           /meh,lah     sah,PEER . wohrf . lee,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /ko  lei,doh,seh,MEEP,ree leh/&lt;br /&gt;
           /SOOT,rai,nahl,MOR,zhee,shah,DOON,dah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee,lo,NAHR,zhoo  zhoi,REEZH,no/&lt;br /&gt;
           /FAHS,noo,bah,SNOO,zhee    ro,lei,DRAH,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee  zo,heh  TAHG,zhee,LOHG,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has also sent me a couple of pages that he&#039;s created as exercises in making tanru and lujvo, but I&#039;ll save them for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Again, Greetings!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seinskicu noi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: The following has-the-same-identity-as, loosely speaking, the self-description which I write to-please my imminent book-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;seinskicu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;seirskicu&amp;quot;: You must glue on a CVV to the front of any lujvo, unless there are only two terms and the second term is a CCV. The &#039;glue&#039; is a vocalic &#039;r&#039; unless the second rafsi begins with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;, in which case use vocalic &#039;n&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; says the following gives further information to identify WHICH self-description is being talked about; &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; assumes you know which self-description is being talked about, and just gives incidental information about it. See Less. 5 &amp;amp; 6.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maikl. &#039;elsym. du lo lea zoi zy gnostik zy joi lo vazyjbe xabju be la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi .zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Long scope beginning) He, standing for Michael Helsem, is a-referrent-of &amp;quot;gnostik&amp;quot; and (is) a born-city- inhabitant of Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On &amp;quot;du...&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me...&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la maikl. &#039;elsym.&amp;quot; is not necessarily equal in identity to &amp;quot;a gnostic-and-there-born- dweller-of-Dallas&amp;quot;; there is a lot more to Michael Helsem than that, and probably there are other Gnostic natives of Dallas, too. What you want to say is that Michael Helsem IS a Gnostic..., like saying that this IS a letter (&amp;quot;ti xatra&amp;quot;). To do that, you want to make a selbri out of Gnostic, which you do with &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; changes the following quoted piece into it&#039;s referent.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; means the combination is true, but probably NOT each individually. For example, if we carry a piano up the stairs with you on one end and me on the other, NEITHER of us has individually carried it up (&amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;); but, both of us together have (&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vazyjbe&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u&amp;quot;: Just a suggestion [Michael agreed.] The &amp;quot;va&amp;quot; part doesn&#039;t really necessarily pick up Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael revised the preferred spelling of his name after reading a separate note from me. His original form is invalid, because &#039; is NOT an &#039;h&#039;, even though it is pronounced like one. The apostrophe is a vowel buffer, and is permitted only between two vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .i bazi leko&#039;a nu jbena sei da&#039;i se&#039;u so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Shortly after the event of his being born, really, many fish fell from the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: This resets &#039;story&#039; time for all further discussion (until re-reset) to &amp;quot;shortly after the event of his being born&amp;quot;. Sentences coming after with no time referent are assumed to progress somewhat in time.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;le ko&#039;a nu jbena&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;his event of birth&amp;quot;, meaning an event of birth relating to him; possibly his son&#039;s birth. &amp;quot;le nu ko&#039;a jbena&amp;quot; makes it clear that the one being born was him.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; closes off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clause so it doesn&#039;t presume the &amp;quot;so&#039;i finpe&amp;quot; is another sumti on &amp;quot;jbena&amp;quot; of the clause. &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; is a discursive and therefore somewhat parenthetical to begin with. You can still close it in parentheses, but not with &amp;quot;sei...se&#039;u&amp;quot;, which takes a bridi (it is meant for a metalinguistic statement which is otherwise not permitted in the position because it would be ungrammatical); if you do want to put &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; in parentheses, you can use &amp;quot;to...toi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .ice ti&#039;u paci nanca ko&#039;a se pu darxi lo karce joi pu stali lo roktu&#039;u ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ca leko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Trans: Then, at-the-time-of his thirteenth year, he is hit be a car and will be stayingly-inside a rock-tube at- [unspecified size interval]-continuously several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ibabo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but implies nothing about the timing; for &amp;quot;and-then&amp;quot; you want &amp;quot;.ibabo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;, like a letter is dated with a certain date even though it was perhaps begun earlier and finished later, and it remains a letter even after. For &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;paci nanca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;thirteen years&amp;quot;, making your phrase into &amp;quot;dated thirteen years&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;thirteenth&amp;quot;, and prefacing by &amp;quot;leko&#039;a&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;his&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se pu darxi&amp;quot; is ungrammatical; it would have to be &amp;quot;pu se darxi&amp;quot;. However, since the time was already set as &amp;quot;in his thirteenth year&amp;quot;, the indication of past tense would mean something earlier than then: &amp;quot;During his thirteenth year, he earlier had ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pu stali lo roktu&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;remained a rock-tube&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&amp;quot;: Once again, you don&#039;t want &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. The tense I put in I would not expect you to have built, but it does mean during.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .ice tezu&#039;enai leke za&#039;i pu cfari bancycu&#039;e tai lo se ctuca po&#039;u ratske kei ko&#039;a pu fanmo se du&#039;a lo ckulypikta po&#039;u zu&#039;o vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo tezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loika vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, ungoaled-by [i.e. despite] the state of startingly-attending the beyond-school by method of a taught-one of atom-science, he was complete and was given a school-ticket of videonesses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;leke...&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is not needed since it all groups the same with or without. The &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end will end the clause by ending the &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; abstraction. (The ending cmavo for &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; was changed to &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; anyway.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;za&#039;i cfari bancycu&#039;e&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;state of startingly being-a-college&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; (now &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;) takes a sumti; &amp;quot;ratske&amp;quot; is a selbri. You need a descriptor to turn it into a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fanmo&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;is-an-end-of&amp;quot;, like &amp;quot;le fanmo&amp;quot; of a rope. &amp;quot;mulno&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is-complete&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se du&#039;a...&amp;quot;: I guess you could use this form. It is a lot more vague than my suggested change.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zu&#039;o vidni&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;activity of being a video [screen]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot;: have you considered &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot; (student)? [he hadn&#039;t and asked us to change all occurrences of &amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .ice ko&#039;a pu litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ko&#039;a litru ji&#039;i re tumplita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via approximately two land-planes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via two land-planes, loosely speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; is a discursive; discursives apply to text metalinguistically. In your usage, &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; was applying to your tanru for continents, and not to the number two. For &amp;quot;approximately&amp;quot; to apply to the &amp;quot;two&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael responded that his intent was metalinguistic - he was &#039;loosely speaking&#039;, and that he preferred &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot;.I&#039;m not sure whether the result means quite what he intends, but it isn&#039;t necessarily &#039;wrong&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .ica&#039;o ko&#039;a ki pu vi&#039;o zgikei pi&#039;o skami je damri .ui to joi ca toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a ca ranji toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Incidentally, he did occasionally music-play with a computer and [with] drums, (whee!) (additionally now continuing).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: Without a specific time reference to reset to, this jumps back to current time. Since the timing of this and following pieces was not clearly specified as continuing in progression from previous events, I will specify these specifically and only in reference to the present.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; not needed since the first place of &amp;quot;zgikei&amp;quot; (based on &amp;quot;kelci&amp;quot;) would be what is played on/with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;je&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;: Again, like &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;, I assume it is true of each separately, and not that you played music on your computer-drum.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;: I used this to close off the sentence so the &amp;quot;.ui&amp;quot; would apply to the sentence as a whole. Generally it applies only to the preceding word, or following a structural cmavo, the construct that the preceding word initiates or closes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi ca&amp;quot; is not grammatical as a complete utterance, unfortunately. I rephrased.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .i ko&#039;a neke lo se ctuca po&#039;u la vitgenctain. joi la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba kei .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri nuke tirna le nike ko&#039;a pifyzifydi&#039;a la&#039;u panononono rupnu .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenu ko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: He, a taught-one relating to Wittgenstein and the Latin love-poem-makers, (indignation), once did experience the event of hearing the event of his being prisoner-free be-priced by dollars in-amount-of 10000 (strong surprise).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;: These have been switched, probably after you wrote this. Since we in the class found that the non-restrictive qualifier was used a lot more than the appositive, we made it the shorter word, &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. Thus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(incidentally) is/does/is-related-to-in-some-manner&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is incidentally the same identity as&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; have been switched (used later in the sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ke lo...kei&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; does group some things, but they are always selbri; it is ungrammatical before a sumti. The&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase is closed by a sometimes-elidable &amp;quot;ge&#039;u&amp;quot;, so I have used that instead of the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; that isn&#039;t allowed there either.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I rephrased the last piece. The literal translation would otherwise have been (after putting &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; before the &amp;quot;nu ke tirna&amp;quot;): &amp;quot;experienced the event of hearing the amount of (he was a prisoner-free-price relating to approximately 10000 dollars)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Instead of &amp;quot;panononono&amp;quot; you can use &amp;quot;panoki&#039;o&amp;quot;; it&#039;s a matter of taste. Your choice, being longer, emphasizes its size. [Michael responded that he was engaging in a little word-play.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .iri&#039;o pa&#039;a pemci ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a joi pu pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pu finti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Anyway, he did-and-does make many paint-pictures besides poems, and did create one repeat-inside-complex long- book, etc..&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On placing &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;: Usually there is one sumti you wish to parallel with what follows &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;. Is the poem in parallel with you in the making of many paintings? Or, is it in parallel with the paintings as being made by you? I assume the latter. It really should be attached, then, to the paintings to show that&#039;s what it is in parallel with; you attach it with &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. If it is left unattached totally, the only interpretation I can think of is that &amp;quot;the poem&amp;quot; is in parallel with &amp;quot;I make many paintings and ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi pu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e pu finti&amp;quot;: Alas, ungrammatical. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;one repeat-inside-complex long-book&amp;quot; (which is what you have) means &amp;quot;before one ...&amp;quot;. You just can&#039;t leave out another selbri if you want to change the tense from &amp;quot;did-and-do&amp;quot; to just &amp;quot;did&amp;quot;. There is a proposed addition, parallel to &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; that will refer to the current sentence&#039;s selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .isa&#039;u ca ko&#039;a xabju la .ok. klif. sei jarbu se&#039;u pa&#039;a le ko&#039;a ractu me&#039;e la byroz. sei se ta&#039;o ri du lo nalcumfanva valkei se&#039;u vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o ri nalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Simply speaking, now he, besides his rabbit who is named &amp;quot;Burroughs&amp;quot; (by the way, that is an untranslatable pun), inhabits Oak Cliff, which is a suburb (end of long scope).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki ca ku&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; is there to make sure time is reset to the present so the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; won&#039;t be taken to mean &amp;quot;simultaneous with the previous sentence&#039;s time&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is needed to close off the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, which otherwise would pick up the &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; into a phrase meaning &amp;quot;at the time of him&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot; again has been linked to what it&#039;s in parallel with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;that which is referred to by the name &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, namely your rabbit; the sentence then winds up stating your rabbit is called by his furry self, making you have to reproduce him to call him. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the word &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, which is a much better thing to have as a name.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I stuck in a couple &amp;quot;sel-&amp;quot;s into your lujvo to make it clearer that the second place is what is wanted in the corresponding tanru. &amp;quot;nalcumselfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible thing-to be translated&amp;quot;, as opposed to &amp;quot;nalcumfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible translator&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;valselkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word thing-played-with&amp;quot;, vs. &amp;quot;valkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word player&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: .i .ia ro brivla cu vasru pa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i .ia ro jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an-error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All of these-mass-of sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an- error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;relationship word&amp;quot;; from your translation, you want &amp;quot;jufra&amp;quot;, which is &amp;quot;sentence&amp;quot; (or possibly &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;). [Michael correctly improved on our correction.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; is what you wanted to get the &amp;quot;at least&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;at least one&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: co&#039;o tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i co&#039;o sei tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Bye (observing a methodically purple-lojbanic thing).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: I remain your pertaining-to-me-thing, by methods purple-lojbanic. Bye.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Because &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot; can take a sumti-tail (the sumti without the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; or other descriptor), the original translated as &amp;quot;Bye, O methodish purple-lojbanic-one&amp;quot; (similarly &amp;quot;co&#039;o ractu&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;Bye, rabbit&amp;quot;). The revised splits off the second part into a parenthetical observative. An alternative would be to &amp;quot;co&#039;o .i tai le zirjbo vau&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;Bye. By-method-of the purple-lojbanic-one.&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is needed to end a sentence with just a sumti (a machine grammar peculiarity).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael made another attempt, based on the Anglicism &amp;quot;I remain yours&amp;quot;, but it didn&#039;t quite come out the way he intended. The final text is after discussion with him about what he wanted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Note that &#039;purple Lojban&#039; is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - a cultural metaphor dependent on knowing the English phrase &amp;quot;purple prose&amp;quot;; Michael continues using this as a standing &#039;inside joke&#039; between us, but we don&#039;t encourage others to do so.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Orig: ca&#039;o ca&#039;o le di&#039;e du lo zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ti&#039;u ti cerni li&#039;u tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .itu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (New paragraph) Incidentally, the following is the-referent-of &amp;quot;haiku&amp;quot;, with name &amp;quot;At-the-time-of the past-by- just-a-bit morning&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ca&#039;o ca&#039;o&amp;quot; is fine, but I thought breaking off into a new paragraph would give the same feel as one of the &amp;quot;ca&#039;o&amp;quot;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;du&amp;quot;: see previous comments about &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot;, again means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti cerni&amp;quot; is a sentence meaning &amp;quot;This is a morning&amp;quot;. For &amp;quot;This morning&amp;quot; you really mean the just-passed morning: &amp;quot;le puzi cerni&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: fi le pa stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : fi le pa nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the one act of stepping.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the first-stepper.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Originally, &amp;quot;By means of the one stepper&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael didn&#039;t like either Nora&#039;s version, or Bob&#039;s first attempt listed afterwards (he hasn&#039;t seen the second or thirdattempts until this printing). His intent was to emphasize that it was the FIRST step out of bed. The modified versionsays what he intended, but is not perfect haiku, which has a syllable count of 5/7/5.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ra&#039;i ckana .oi mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: from source of the bed (annoyance), by me was&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A modal (&amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;) may either be used as a sumti tag (as I assume you intended) or as an inflection for the selbri. To make &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; a sumti tag, you need a descriptor on the selbri &amp;quot;ckana&amp;quot; (otherwise it will be taken as the sentence selbri, on which &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; is a descriptor).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fa&amp;quot;: Since you used &amp;quot;fi&amp;quot; previously to get at the third place of &amp;quot;catra&amp;quot;, the next non-sumti-tagged item will be assumed to be the fourth place; since you want the first, you will have to tag it again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: killed a cockroach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Of course, all these changes kill the haiku form. Bob has suggested the following alternatives:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi poi sa&#039;akla&lt;br /&gt;
(The me who step-goes)&lt;br /&gt;
fi le ckana ku&#039;o .oi&lt;br /&gt;
(from the bed, (annoyance))&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
(kills a cockroach.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[As mentioned above, this doesn&#039;t say what Michael wanted to say, so Bob tried again. Two alternatives are the result,depending on whether you want to complain about the bed (too hard, too soft, too inviting) or being a killer. Note thatto properly complain about getting out of bed, the &amp;quot;.oi&amp;quot; must be placed after the &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;. Thus the English translationsof the earlier attempts are only approximates.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi .i&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed (Complaint!). And&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .i .oi&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed. And (Complaint!)&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: (End of block text)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: Again, ending.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As submitted - not good Lojban) - 10 Feb 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            *la    .uorf. .e la sapir. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            ke lo&#039;i rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             .eka pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i ta sidbo ca    gentsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (Final form - with approved corrections)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la .uorf. .e la    saPIR. pu pensi    Whorf and Sapir    wondered about&lt;br /&gt;
lenu loi rembangu lei mensi    human languages, sisters&lt;br /&gt;
    cu simsa leka lanzu           being similar, in relatedness&lt;br /&gt;
    gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu           and in singular insufficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i    leva sidbo ca genytsi    But this nearby    idea is    now a knot-seed.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
loi ve cusku cu    mo loi se cusku    The means-of-expression    has-what-&lt;br /&gt;
                relation-to the    expressibly&lt;br /&gt;
cumda&#039;i     .i mi danfu lu    le sisku   possible-objects.  I    answer &amp;quot;The seeker&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nitcu pa    jaspu        needs one passport&lt;br /&gt;
    .uu     .i ku&#039;i na vasru    (Alas!).  But not-a-container,&lt;br /&gt;
fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u        it is, of him (I think).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sei lu leka sarcu vau li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o    (&amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot; names.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami    A strange temporary-universe, the&lt;br /&gt;
                (typical) computer&lt;br /&gt;
cu nenri  .i RA    mi se prami    inside is.  It (the universe), I love.&lt;br /&gt;
    .i ku&#039;i le pratci           But the producer-tool&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nu sisti    kei batci       is a    cessation-biter.&lt;br /&gt;
le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami of the mind-returning (Alas!) like&lt;br /&gt;
                hot-acid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the first example, I am assuming most readers don&#039;t know Latin, I&#039;m including his English translation. Note thatthe Latin original has two lines, but that it takes 3 sentences in both English and Lojban to translate it:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
seide&#039;e    se sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o        Carmen LXXXV   Song #85    (The following is Song 85th)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 prami joi xebni fa mi            odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I&lt;br /&gt;
genai caca jimpe la&#039;ede&#039;u        Nescio,      don&#039;t    understand it,&lt;br /&gt;
gi ru&#039;i    lifri cai je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously experience(!)-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku ri         excrucior.    -am-anguished-by such a    state.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note:  If    brevity    was desired without significantly changing the meaning,    the last Lojban    sentence could be&lt;br /&gt;
shortened:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o prami joi xebni fa    mi        odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I,&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u jimpe          Nescio,        this state, don&#039;t understand,&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e ru&#039;i lifri    je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously-experience-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku             excrucior.    -am-anguished-by (it).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s original had &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is a logical connective, while &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; is a mixture-connective.The logical connective can expands out into logically equivalent sentences; these mean, of course: &amp;quot;I love&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Ihate&amp;quot;. The paradox causing the confusion is probably the poet&#039;s mixed emotion of love and hate, but this must beinferred from context, since the Latin is no less ambiguous than the English. Athelstan reads the Latin differently than Michael and suggests (not being too sure himself without more research) that the first line be interpreted as &amp;quot;I love-and-hate. &#039;Why do you do this?&#039;, you might ask&amp;quot;. This reading would require changing &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;dafcpe&amp;quot; (answer-request) in line 3, and the question on the 2nd line becomes &amp;quot;.i lu go&#039;i mu&#039;i ma li&#039;u&amp;quot;, which translates as &amp;quot;This-last,with what motive?&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the next few, we&#039;ll give interlinear literal translations, and then, as appropriate, Michael&#039;s colloquial Englishtranslation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene&lt;br /&gt;
The following is a Lojbanic-poem, and is named&lt;br /&gt;
      lu le    firgai pu&#039;u se vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;The face-cover (mask) [type-of] process of being removed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      [Note    that no    &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; causes the    abstraction to be absorbed into    a big tanru.]&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
      fe zo    pei ca rapcpedu    cai&lt;br /&gt;
      Request &amp;quot;How do you feel about?&amp;quot;, repeatedly-request (!)&lt;br /&gt;
      fa mi    .ei ne tai do pe pu fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
      I (Obligation!), in the manner that you, who were past [did],    of me.&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
      in-the-manner/form-of    (Figurative):[many-folded layers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .i mi    vimcu ro lei firgai levi&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the face-covers from the-here&lt;br /&gt;
      sluni    po&#039;u lonu djica    .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
      onion, the state-of-desiring.     And then, sequentially,&lt;br /&gt;
      ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro    po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
      (Attention, you!) it (the onion) universe-fillingly grows.]:(End figurative)&lt;br /&gt;
      [&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;    was probably sufficient, since he&#039;s said that the onion    is the desiring-state.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .iku&#039;i pu najenai ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
      But, neither-before-nor-presently,&lt;br /&gt;
      mi djuno leri    cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
      do I know its    (the onion&#039;s) possible-name(s)&lt;br /&gt;
      .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
      and  the-truth-of its    (still the onion/desiring-state) being described&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
      as (figuratively):[an-event-of together-magnetism&lt;br /&gt;
      .a lo    nalsti nu fasnu    cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
      or an    unceasing event    of being occurring wild-weather&lt;br /&gt;
      [The &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; seems redundant here.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata    nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
      ]:(end figurative), or (simply) one other [=another] event of    foolishness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      The &amp;quot;nu ka&amp;quot; seems malglico - an attempt to match an English phrasing.    &amp;quot;nu bebna&amp;quot; is and event    of something&lt;br /&gt;
      being    a fool,    i.e. an    event of foolishness. &amp;quot;ka bebna&amp;quot; is a property/quality of foolishness.    &amp;quot;nu ka bebna&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      thus has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is an event of (x1a being a property    of (x1b    being a    fool), which translates&lt;br /&gt;
      approximately    the same way into English but implies some meaningless sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s colloquial English translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban poem entitled &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;What    is it you feel?&amp;quot; -- now    I must keep asking&lt;br /&gt;
        myself, as you once    did to me,&lt;br /&gt;
        like laminations.&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the masks from this&lt;br /&gt;
        onion of a desire.    Then&lt;br /&gt;
        Lo!    it grows-to-fill-the-world...&lt;br /&gt;
      But still not&lt;br /&gt;
        do I know what to call it,&lt;br /&gt;
        nor    whether    it&#039;s described&lt;br /&gt;
      by &#039;a    state of together-magnetism&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        or &#039;an unending storm&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        -- or simply one more folly.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note the fairly complex tense-negation in the 3rd stanza. This appears correct, but is exactly the type ofconstruct that we are pondering in our open-issue discussions of tense and negation. I may even find a way to use this stanza as an example in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is why we want people to try to use the language, before its nailed into unchanging form. If people don&#039;t try complicated expression, we don&#039;t have examples of all the ways people might try to use the grammar we&#039;ve defined, thus risking an error that will later come back to haunt us. We can only accomplish so much by thought-experiments, and the relatively small number of texts and examples that the few of us making decisions can generate ourselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second poem:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is called    &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              Being-at-nesses (Presences)&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              (I hear) states of observing&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) achievement of lunar&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              round-completeness (full-moon-ness) is good.&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              But I otherly-celebrate&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) lunar superlative-thinness    (new-moon-ness)&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              I    am related to it (the achievement) in the (specific) properties    of darkness,&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              and in secret states of existing,    and (I wish!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) properties    of powerfulness, all of    a&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              means of touching    the world-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              At the (specific)    achievement of lunar superlative-thinness&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              ,    the lunar disk becomes&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              its (the disk&#039;s) single observer.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              I    too (become the    disk&#039;s single observer (sic), but always&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
              from-earlier-until-now an    observer of my zerosome-ness, also.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael didn&#039;t provide a colloquial translation - this poem is sufficiently Lojbanic that such a translation would miss some things. I noted that in a few places, Michael&#039;s interlinear translation did not always match what he wrote,so the above interlinear is my modification of his.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like this poem; the images to me are powerful. The lengthy set of comments that follow have nothing to do with its quality, which I think is outstanding. I hate picking apart something this good, lest I trivialize it, but teaching is right now the important thing, and Michael will no doubt make the poem better still as a result, for the enjoyment of future Lojbanists. But note that my comments, though occasionally picky, are of a different nature than, for example,Nora&#039;s comments on Michael&#039;s self-description. Now we are not concerned with Michael writing a grammatical Lojban sentence, but how he can best convey the subtleties of his ideas. In short we are now talking about the art of Lojban expression.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As noted previously, the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are unneeded. Michael probably included them based on the textbook lessons written before we had changed the rule (Feb 89) and no longer require &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; after the abstractor clause to indicate long-scope abstraction, which is now the default. Instead, if he had wanted short-scope abstraction, he would put a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; into indicate the termination. The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are not harmful; the parser would merely assume a matching elided &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at theend of the selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
* I have emphasized a little bit of inconsistency in his choices of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; by highlighting the difference in translation. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; implies that the speaker has (a) specific one(s) in mind. &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; makes a statement about at least one non-specific representative of the described type. Thus, I would expect that the descriptors on the three properties by which Michael claims to be akin to the disk would either all be &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; (if he has specific properties in mind, which I suspect), or they should all be &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; (if any old property of the type described will do). Other places in the text could stand re-examination of his choice of descriptor to further improve his clarity.&lt;br /&gt;
* As another example of a possibly inadequate descriptor choice, I think the two &#039;achievements&#039; of new-moon-ness and full-moon-ness should be described with &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;; this not only means that he doesn&#039;t have specific new moon and full moon achievements in mind (unlikely for an abstraction), but it heightens the sense of abstraction by referring to those achievements as being of a mass of lunar achievements, presumably most or all alike in possessing the properties to which Michael refers.&lt;br /&gt;
* Also relating to the properties of kinship: if they are all properties, they probably all should use the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;abstractor. These would translate in a decidedly non-English manner, which may be why Michael made what I think are errors. Thus &amp;quot;leka mipri zasti&amp;quot; (the quality of secret existence) or &amp;quot;le mipri ka zasti&amp;quot; (the secret essence [quality of existence]). &amp;quot;leka vlipa&amp;quot; (the powerfulness. The latter would then better be qualified (I think) as &amp;quot;leka vlipa poipiromei curmi lonu pencu le munje se rinka&amp;quot; (the powerfulness that wholly-is-a-permitter of touching the universe-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Michael akin to the moon, or to its achievements, in those properties of kinship. What he says is that he isakin to the achievements. If he means to be akin to the moon, he needs to move the moon out of a tanru relationship sohe can refer to it anaphorically with &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;. The best way I see to do this is (assuming use of &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot; as mentioned above:&amp;quot;... salci loimu&#039;e le lunra cu caircinla .i mi ckini ri ...&amp;quot;. This picks up &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
* That the rephrasing I just proposed would work suggests to me that the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; is not needed on &amp;quot;cuklymulno&amp;quot; or&amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;. An achievement is itself an abstract state. You don&#039;t achieve a property, but rather a state characterized by the property.&lt;br /&gt;
* I would have chosen &amp;quot;dukti&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;drata&amp;quot; as a modifier of &amp;quot;salci&amp;quot;, thus clarifying that he is contrasting with a celebration of the &#039;opposite state&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
* The use of &amp;quot;mi go&#039;i&amp;quot; confuses; I think Michael is relying on a poetic sense that tells an English reader what is meant here by &amp;quot;me too&amp;quot;. As he has it written, &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; captures the bridi based on &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; replaces the first sumti of that bridi. The x2 place remains unchanged - the Thus, instead of the moon becoming its own observer,the poet now is. They can&#039;t both alone be observers. The solution here is tricky, and depends on what exactly he means. The use of &amp;quot;mi&#039;u&amp;quot; (UI - discursively indicates a parallel) marking the sentence might help. Changing the wording of the x2 place of &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; might also play a role: saying that the moon becomes &amp;quot;lo pa sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a self-observer, of which there is exactly one in the set) or &amp;quot;lo pamei sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a solitary self-observer). &amp;quot;sepli&amp;quot; might be used in either form in place of &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot;, if the intent is to convey the apartness of the observer, rather than the singularity. If the parallel he is trying to make allows for both he and the moon to be observing the same thing,though apart (from each other and/or from humanity) then &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot; misleads.&lt;br /&gt;
* Astronomers would dislike Michael&#039;s expressions for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;new moon&amp;quot;. The moon doesn&#039;t significantly change shape either being completely-round or most-thin. Rather it is the observed moon (selzga lunra or, perhaps better, lunra selzga) , or possibly the lunar disk (lunrycukla or just leave it as a tanru) that changes shape. The latter might cause a problem with interpreting the later use of &amp;quot;lunra cukla&amp;quot; near the end of the poem: is it the lunardisk (the planar projection that we see) that becomes an observer, or the lunar orb (lunra bolci = lunryboi), or maybe just &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot; (the moon), since the self-observing moon would not see what we see from Earth. But we&#039;re dealing with poetry here, and the place structure of &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot; is that of a &#039;name predicate&#039; (see the discussion of culture words inthe response to jyjym. below)&lt;br /&gt;
* Incidentally, Michael may have chosen not to compress the lujvo for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; for sound reasons, but &amp;quot;cukmu&#039;o&amp;quot;is a valid shortening. Also, the rafsi for comparatives and superlatives are oriented towards final position use, so I would prefer &amp;quot;cinlycai&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, all other things being equal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think I&#039;ll stop commenting on this one; these comments are getting too picky even by my rather perfectioniststandards. The next poem is decidedly weird, but I think that was Michael&#039;s intent - to stretch one&#039;s mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is named &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
           Pertaining to Sapir-Whorf (Sapir-Whorf-ly)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           (Imperative you), your secrets, to the&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
           fastest non-rememberer, now give!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           Orange-and-silver&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
           events will be sandwiches, filled by all    of the other things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
           Something unspecified is    snugly logical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will leave this one for your imagination. I can&#039;t suggest any improvements. My mind is still trying to grasp&amp;quot;orange-and-blue events&amp;quot;, and figure out how they can be sandwiches.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Due to the length of this issue, I&#039;m going to try to keep my comments short in response to the following. Arthur Brown is a mathematician and has followed the Loglan Project fairly closely since it was made public in 1960. His comments are in response to the Mathematics Intelligencer essay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Arthur Brown ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are some things about translation. In my opinion, a thorough knowledge of the jargon used in the target language (in my case English) is essential. I remember a case in which the Office of Naval Intelligence used a broke-down Russian emigr lawyer to translate some technical documents: the poor chap used a &amp;quot;wide-striped catcher&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;broad-band receiver&amp;quot;. This was good Russian, but not good English, because the jargon was missing. (In fact, the Russian authors intended the English jargon, because a broad-band receiver was an Anglo- American technical development, I think.) The Chinese might use a &amp;quot;wide one-long-piece ribbon electric-listen thingamajig&amp;quot;, for all I know. One would have to settle on Lojban terms for the thing-in-itself, and let the translators into target languages cope with the jargon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A lot of mathematics is repetition, of stereotyped language. But some of it isn&#039;t. Occasionally, and I think regrettably, the authors break loose and become picturesque; this outbreak poses a real problem for the translator. What do you do when there isn&#039;t any jargon in the target language, or even worse, when there is jargon but it means something else (e.g. Khrushchev&#039;s &amp;quot;We will bury you&amp;quot;, which is good Russian for &amp;quot;we will outlast you&amp;quot;, but in English means the annihilation of cities). This will be a problem for Lojban as a single intermediate language; overcomable, obviously, but a problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest that, for Lojban generally, you get hold of a copy of William Empson&#039;s Seven Types of Ambiguity, published some 40 or 50 years ago. Empson was a disciple of I. A. Richards and C. K. Ogden; the book is about the richness that a language gets from compression, where the reader is uncertain about which meaning the author in- tended, and so settles for all the meanings possible. Loj- ban, if I understand it, intends to be unambiguous; if Sapir-Whorf takes ambiguity into account, as relating to real cultural languages, then I&#039;m not sure that Lojban will give a complete test. But that doesn&#039;t relate to science; so the broader aims of Lojban should not be allowed to interfere with its use as Intermath.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is there any hope of getting the National Science Foundation behind Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds to the last question: As described in the news section, we are currently seeking to establish academic credibility before tackling the NSF. People have told us that we need 1) to have been published in a refereed journal [not yet in the works] 2) to be willing to wait several months for decision and funding [we live from month to month, hoping that I don&#039;t have to go back to work too soon] 3) to have a competitive proposal when most NSF proposals are written with the help of professional consultants [I have proposal writing experience, but I&#039;m not that good] and 4) to live down Jim Brown&#039;s actions of the late 70&#039;s when he accused key individuals at NSF of improprieties in handling his proposals. Bureaucracies have long memories, and Jim Brown leveled serious charges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from jyjym. ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been working on an outline, a very rough one, of the Lojban words on the 8/9/88 baselined gismu list. I think I&#039;m going to try to learn Lojban, and the outline gives me a constructive way to learn some gismu. A completed outline should be useful in various ways.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This effort, combined with learning more about Lojban in general, has led me to an awareness of something unfortunate. The gismu corresponding to particular cul- tures/nations/languages/religions, from &amp;quot;African&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Urdi,&amp;quot; have to go. I mean that those gismu are imposters; they are cmene in &amp;quot;gismu-clothing&amp;quot; and they must be abolished. They are nothing other than a &amp;quot;Most Favored Cultured List&amp;quot; (MFCL). This does not apply to &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; It does apply to &amp;quot;lojbo&amp;quot;, but that can be fixed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll list a few things, in no special order, to show what drove me to this conclusion about the MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is all grown up now and stands on its own. All other languages, including the target languages, are now foreigners. If it fails to treat all foreigners equally, it is biased.&lt;br /&gt;
#  The inclusion of the MFCL was justified by pointing out the vast numbers of people covered by those labels. No other gismu are judged in that way. For example, the inclusion of &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was not justified by citing the extent of the infestation.&lt;br /&gt;
# The language was made to have ample grammatical tools for borrowing names from other languages. It is irrational for the makers of the language to ignore the rules of what they have themselves created, and to write borrowings directly into the gismu list, to take up fifty extremely valuable spaces.&lt;br /&gt;
# The gismu are words which speakers are forced to use, unlike cmene and tanru which are a matter of personal preference. Who are you to decide that a speaker must acknowledge certain groups of ordinary people as basic concepts, and call them by the words you deem fitting?&lt;br /&gt;
# Practical difficulties may arise. For example, Tao is officially proscribed in China. Some Chinese bureaucrat may see a description of Lojban, note that it includes Tao as a basic concept, and stamp it &amp;quot;counterrevolutionary.&amp;quot; That&#039;s the end of Lojban for a billion people. Easy come, easy go. But of course no one could even imagine that happening to a culturally neutral language.&lt;br /&gt;
# The MFCL words convey no meaning in the way that gismu have to. gismu convey a meaning by excluding other possibilities. For example, (dog) is (not cat), and (sorrow) is (not bliss). But is it correct that (American) is (not African)? Words which do not exclude each other, such as (clock) and (timepiece) are synonyms. The MFCL words are synonyms, if they are gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
# Increased knowledge makes it easier to select a word if that word corresponds to a concept. For example, if we gradually learn that X has something to do with an emotion, whispers, a crystalline mineral, and a carving on wood in the shape of a bodily organ, we may begin to suspect that X is &amp;quot;love.&amp;quot; Given more information we will know for sure. (Actually, if the carving is in the shape of a bodily organ, it MUST be love.) But which MFCL word applies to a Toyota built in Tennessee? If more information is needed to decide whether this car is &amp;quot;America-concept&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Japan- concept,&amp;quot; I will add that it is owned by the Reverend Dr. Smith. He is a resident of Berlin. His pet name for it is &amp;quot;Romulus.&amp;quot; More and more specific information only leads to greater and greater doubt about which MFCL word is appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
# That&#039;s enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh yes, about lojbo--why not just define it to mean the name of the language. Let future Lojban speakers choose their own names for their culture, nation, etc. Those names are likely to be metaphors anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: jyjym. is absolutely correct in that the MFCL words are &#039;cmene in gismu-clothing&#039;. I&#039;ll go further and say that &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; also fits this, and so to a small number of other words like &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;terdi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;solri&amp;quot;. You can identify all of these words by their artificial- sounding place structure &amp;quot;x1 pertains to ... in property/aspect/action x2&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not surprisingly, this is also the place structure used when you turn a cmene written as a sumti into a brivla by using the cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. Thus &amp;quot;me la iunaitedsteits.&amp;quot; has the grammar of a brivla, with the place structure x1 pertains to the United States in property/aspect/action x2. The function of turning a name into a predicate is vital to language. That is the only way you could say &amp;quot;This is a Toyota car&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why do we have them, if they are names? Because they are much used in practical everyday speech by people. Not directly as gismu, but in tanru and lujvo. Even if a Toyota is built in Tennessee, most people will identify it with the tanru Japanese-car. The answer to your last question (8) is that people will use whatever culture label they wish to, to identify that feature, trait or stereotype that they are attributing to the car, person, item, or concept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If this sounds like catering to prejudice, it may indeed be. But on the Eaton list of concepts, the name for &#039;one&#039;s own culture/nation&#039; is on the first page of the frequency list, and the concept of &#039;specific other culture/nation besides one&#039;s own&#039;, a combination of all the other culture names put together, isn&#039;t far behind (the specific list of &#039;other cultures talked about&#039; is going to vary in each country/culture).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Lojban, these words will be used even more frequently in tanru and lujvo than in the natural languages. The most obvious uses are for concepts tied to nationality or culture such as &#039;American dollar&#039;, as opposed to &#039;Canadian dollar&#039;, and &#039;Japanese yen&#039;, &#039;English system of measures&#039;, and a large number of religious concepts that inherently include the religion in the concept. For example, &#039;pertaining to the Bible&#039; (as an adjective - &#039;biblical&#039;) would be &amp;quot;Christian-sacred-book&amp;quot; (as opposed to the Torah, which is the &amp;quot;Jewish-sacred-book&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a second type of word that uses culture words, which we in English use all of the time without realizing what we are doing. These are those words that have a hidden etymology that is a name - often a place name. While we would be unlikely to use these particular tanru in Lojban, &amp;quot;emerald&amp;quot; derives from &amp;quot;esmeralda&amp;quot;, a word for East, and &amp;quot;turquoise&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;Turkey&amp;quot;. When we orient ourselves in a new situation, we hearken back to the time when people oriented themselves in new places by facing the sunrise (the Orient).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently, all natural languages build metaphors from names. Lojban is different than natural languages in providing short, regular, combining forms for those believed to be likely to generate often-used words. Other names will have to be Lojbanized into le&#039;avla, and then made to combine using a non-abbreviated combining form (?toionta + karce = toiontykarce)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In point 6, jyjym. has made a distinction between cmene and gismu, saying that &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot;. From modern science, we believe this the case, but there are cultures that might believe in cat/dog half-breeds. To them, the statement &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot; is not obvious. To use an ex- ample, we saw just above, we have gismu for &#039;love&#039; and also for &#039;hate&#039;, but these abstract concepts, though considered opposites, do not exclude each other - else we would never hear of a &#039;love/hate relationship&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The assumption in Lojban is that all words are &#039;names&#039; for concepts. A selbri (of which gismu are only a part) is a name for a concept expressed as a relationship. A cmene is a name for a concept expressed as a substantive label. The cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; exist to blur the lines between these two categories so that selbri can be turned into cmene and cmene into selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a common misconception, which jyjym. appears to share (#4), and that is the concept that gismu are some set of &#039;basic concepts&#039;. It is precisely to avoid this misconception that we started using the Lojban word gismu instead of &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot;. An idea that some words or concepts are &#039;basic&#039; and others are not IS ITSELF a bias - a bias toward certain concepts being more important than other ones. No two human beings, much less cultures, would be likely to agree exactly on the set of basic words. Why should &#039;cat&#039; and &#039;dog&#039; be gismu, and not &#039;lobster&#039; and &#039;amoeba&#039;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Surely, there are some concepts represented in the gismu that are universally considered basic, but they are a small minority. Some cultures divide the color spectrum into as few as two or three colors - Lojban uses about a dozen. Are those dozen &#039;basic&#039; in some absolute sense? No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The gismu set that we have is chosen on the basis of pragmatic usage. The notes in response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class indicate that the evolution of our gismu list was anything other than ideal. For example, some words were considered by Jim Brown to indeed be biologically basic. When we redid the list, we required some justification for eliminating a word that Jim Brown had declared &#039;primitive&#039;. But the criteria for adding a word were that it either had to complete an incomplete set of concepts, or be useful ei- ther in terms of usage frequency, or in terms of usefulness in making tanru. The latter become more important as time has passed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a category of Lojban concept represented neither by gismu, nor tanru, nor cmene - these are the le&#039;avla, or borrowings. le&#039;avla are predicate words, like gismu, but they are formed by Lojbanizing from a word in another language, like cmene. The rules for Lojbanizing are a bit more strict than for cmene, and harder to learn, so we de-emphasize using le&#039;avla, preferring to use a tanru instead when we can; in the long run, however, le&#039;avla may be the largest class of words in the language, covering most foods, animals, plants, and technical jargon words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words that are gismu have an &#039;advantage&#039; over le&#039;avla in that they are shorter. More significantly, they are the only words considered for assignment of rafsi. All of the MFCL words have rafsi, which is not the case for all gismu. The reason, based exactly on jyjym.&#039;s logic, is that if we couldn&#039;t assign a rafsi to a name-gismu, we shouldn&#039;t have it as a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is indeed an effective bias in including some cultures as gismu, and in not including others. The bias is that speakers in those cultures find an easier time talking about concepts peculiar to their culture as lujvo, while people of other cultures will use le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Brown had gismu for each of his 8 source language cultures, and Lojban. But he also added some odd additions like &#039;Italian&#039;, &#039;Roman&#039;, &#039;Amerind&#039;, and the distinction between &#039;American&#039; and &#039;British&#039; within &#039;English&#039; (but he left out &#039;Canadian&#039; and &#039;Australian&#039;, and all of the Span- ish-speaking countries of Latin America). His choices struck us as biased and arbitrary, and made worse by the assignment of 3 gismu to each of his MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We chose to minimize bias by adding gismu to the point that we covered the 12 most common languages, the primary cultures (down to some minimum population) that spoke them, and the primary religions and continents so-associated, etc. It was at this level that we reached the conflict stage for rafsi, and were starting to have to choose between assigning them to MFCL words or to other gismu judged to be useful in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(jyjym. is incorrect in a sense - gismu word space is not all that precious. We could have twice the number of gismu we have now. The number we stopped at was based on a consensus among the word-makers, strongly influenced by a historical tradition of 1000-1500 concepts in artificial languages, and indications from foreign language education research that this was a minimum vocabulary size for conversation. We also were starting to get an increasing number of conflicts over rafsi, and highest scoring word- form.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 12 language level (our &#039;most favored languages&#039; - MFL) was historically significant - it included all of Jim Brown&#039;s languages plus our own set, and included all languages that we had considered using in making gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The number 12 had a non-arbitrary feel to it - we were using an fairly objective standard, rather than personal preference, to determine which were included. But it is, in a sense, arbitrary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me turn to jyjym.&#039;s individual points briefly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Lojban does not yet stand on its own. We are highly dependent on native speakers of the 12 MFL, which include nearly all languages used in more than one nation. The 50- 75% of the world that speaks one of the MFL&#039;s have the capability to make lujvo for the words they use often in their culture; this will enhance Lojban&#039;s acceptability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I&#039;ve said a couple of times in this newsletter, Lojban IS biased. The point is to have biases minimized and identified. Our list has less of a Euro-American bias than Jim Brown&#039;s list. Note that all of our gismu can be said to be even more biased than the MFCL, in that they maximize learnability for people of only 6 languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these presumed biases are believed significant for a Sapir-Whorf test, although such an assumption must be verified at some point by testing MFCL members as well as non-MFCL members.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Actually, &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was included because of the ubiquity of lice and fleas, and properly covers all skin/hair parasites in its definition. Similarly, &amp;quot;jalra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sfani&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bifce&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;toldi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;manti&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;jukni&amp;quot; are ubiquitous - the gismu for these are intended to cover the rest of &amp;quot;bug-dom&amp;quot;. (Do we need one for &amp;quot;locust/grasshopper&amp;quot;?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All gismu were considered from the standpoint of whether they would be useful to people of all cultures. Some limited sets, like the MFCL, some animals and plants, grains, and some metals, are exceptions that were included for a combination of historical continuity, and because some of the 12 MFL cultures use the words metaphorically in their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. As stated, we have 3 ways to borrow names, into 3 different word categories. To use one set of rules is not to ignore the others. There is nothing &#039;more basic&#039; about one set of rules as compared with another.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. I don&#039;t understand this claim. You can use, or not use gismu, as you choose. There is nothing forced. I&#039;ll admit that if you use LogFlash, you would have to edit out some words to not be &#039;forced&#039; to learn them, but you are not required to use them. And what makes cmene and tanru more a matter of personal preference? You can creatively make a different tanru if you don&#039;t like how one sounds, but it will mean something different. If you use a cmene as a label, which differs from someone else&#039;s label for the same thing, they may not recognize who or what you are talking to/about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, gismu are not &#039;basic concepts&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It occurs to me that people can choose to ignore the MFCL gismu if they choose, and use cmene or le&#039;avla if they prefer. I don&#039;t see any advantage to this, since it is extra work for no gain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. If we were to include or exclude concepts from our list based on local politics, that would indeed be biased. I could say that ALL religions are proscribed in some countries. Does this mean that we should eliminate &amp;quot;lijda&amp;quot; from the gismu? Incidentally, to ban something, you have to label it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a million and one possible ways for people in a given culture to become offended by something in Lojban which differs from their own culture. For example, we have the gismu &amp;quot;gletu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ganxo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;pinji&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kalci&amp;quot; which repre- sent concepts taboo in our culture. The fact that Lojban by rule forbids taboos on any word could offend religious people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. I&#039;ve dealt with this partially above. It sounds like jyjym. is claiming that no gismu overlap in meaning except the MFCL, and that words that do overlap are synonyms. Neither of these is true. For example, &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bersa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bruna&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;remna&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; all overlap in a set that includes all fathers who aren&#039;t the only child of their parents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. I&#039;m lost on interpreting this one. The exact mapping of associations to words is an individual, or at least a cultural thing. I suspect that there are some cultures that, given the list of clue concepts, could decide that jyjym. is referring to lust or worship, or both. All in all, this is a valuable discussion. We get more questions about the culture words than any other gismu, usually asking why they were included, or complaining about having to memorize them. There is a &#039;bottom line&#039; - if no one uses a gismu, or any other word, it will eventually fall out of the language. I&#039;m betting that while most Americans will have little call for using &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, they&#039;ll have trouble avoiding the use of &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;glico&amp;quot;. To eliminate all of the MFCL that one doesn&#039;t personally use would be &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - oops, I just used one. Perhaps if you have memorized &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, you&#039;ll find a use for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Eric Williams ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Question # 1 - Why are words for &#039;large&#039; and &#039;small&#039; included in Lojban? When a person says &amp;quot;ta cu barda&amp;quot;, he or she has only expressed something very vague, since &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; is not &#039;larger than&#039; something. It seems that the proper way to express this concept is &#039;more&#039; (or &#039;less&#039;) than an- other in height, weight, surface area, or whatever. Bob&#039;s Response: If you want to express a comparison, you indeed should use &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;; they are comparative by nature and it shows in the place structure. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; are the same concept without an inherent comparative. As you&#039;ve noted, these provide less information than the comparatives - exactly one sumti place&#039;s worth. Based on English usage, there are cases where a comparative could be misleading - a large negative number is less than a small negative number.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Quite often, we don&#039;t know what the basis of comparison is. What is a &#039;big house&#039; bigger than - possibly nothing in particular - and each person&#039;s standard of comparison might be different, so we can&#039;t use &amp;quot;zu&#039;i&amp;quot;, the &#039;unspecified typical&#039; sumti place filler, unless we also add an observer place. Since some comparatives are ob- server independent, you can&#039;t put the observer place in the basic place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In general, we&#039;ve omitted comparatives from place structures because there is almost always a use where comparatives cause problems. In fact, we&#039;ve followed a &#039;less is better&#039; philosophy of place structure determination for all of the gismu. It is easy to &#039;add&#039; an extra place using a sumti tcita &#039;case tag&#039;; it is impossible to remove a place. So we try to keep out the non-mandatory ones. This has the side advantage of making the place structures easier to learn, because there is less to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(There IS a proposal to amend the place structure of &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; to add &amp;quot;as compared to standard x3. This is different from a true comparative. Comments are welcome.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Question #2 - Why have Lojban pronouns been assigned both singular and plural meanings? (If the S-W Hypothesis is correct, one might argue that Lojban would create a cultural bias towards a pluralism - a society such as the one in Ayn Rand&#039;s Anthem, which had done away with the word &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hence, with man&#039;s ego.) Is there a method for stating &amp;quot;me, to the exclusion of all others&amp;quot;? If so, please let me know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response - Predicate logic ignores the difference between singular and plural, so Lojban, at its most basic level, also does. This might cause a S-W effect such as you&#039;ve described; that is why Lojban was created - so that such drastic differences in world view in a society can be clearly tied to grammatical constructs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When we say that Lojban is culturally neutral, we mean not that the language has no effects on the culture - that would be assuming that Sapir-Whorf is false, and minimizing just the types of effects we&#039;d be looking for. Rather, we try to eliminate the cultural biases of existing cultures of the world, the sources of natural language speakers that will eventually form the Lojban speaker base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban achieves cultural neutrality by trying to minimize metaphysical assumptions, and the singular/plural distinction is one such assumption. Does there have to be such a distinction? If so, why not a 3- or 4- way distinction expressing singular, dual, trial, and multitudinal (there are languages with more than 2 number categories, though I don&#039;t know of any with exactly this set).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban tries to remove constraints. Therefore, you CAN express number, tense, and the various other optional grammatical features if it is important to the truth of your statement, which isn&#039;t that often. You have a couple of ways of expressing singular more clearly: &amp;quot;mipezi&amp;quot; (the right-here me, limits by location rather than number. It is only plural if there are several people by me, and you are off across the room). &amp;quot;mipoipamoi&amp;quot; is the ultimate singular - &amp;quot;I, the one some&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can make a whole bunch of other distinctions that you can&#039;t make in English, of course, but I&#039;ve no room for them here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Eric also asked about the place structures of culture words, but his question was answered in the response tojyjym., so I&#039;ve not repeated the answer here.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Last Minute Request for Comment ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussing some of the topics in this issue, and in discussing negation, a question of bias arose. At present&amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; has 3 rafsi, including &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; which also serves as a sumti tcita (lexeme BAI) for adding &amp;quot;more than ...&amp;quot;comparatives. The &#039;opposite&#039; word, &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; has no rafsi,partly because in English we seldom make comparatives in this direction, so few have built tanru from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.&amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; also has a sumti tcita, but it is not as clearly connected to the gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are no good available solutions based on &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.The possible rafsi permitted in any position for this word are &amp;quot;-cka-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-cau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-kau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-ca&#039;u-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-ka&#039;u-&amp;quot;, andeach of these is in use by a reasonably important gismu, in terms of use in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We thus are proposing the first change in a gismu sincethe baseline was established 20 months ago, and setting the precedent by encouraging comment from all who have started learning the words (and others) before even a single word change. The proposed replacement is &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; with rafsi &amp;quot;-mec-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-me&#039;a&amp;quot; and the latter becoming the sumti tcita.The issue will be decided at LogFest 90 after consideration of all comments. What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124164</id>
		<title>opposites and contraries</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124164"/>
		<updated>2020-12-05T15:54:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* Dubious cases */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Opposites==&lt;br /&gt;
Opposites (&#039;&#039;&#039;da de dukti&#039;&#039;&#039;) are about opposite ends of scales like &amp;quot;hot&amp;quot; versus &amp;quot;cold&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==List==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xlali || xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ruble || tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mutce || milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jetnu || jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nandu || frili&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|balvi || purci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nenri || bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmive || morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|masno || sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gusni || manku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tordu || clani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sampu || pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zmadu || mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnita || gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pritu || zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sipna || cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmina || vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ricfu || pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnino || slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|citno || laldo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jibni || darno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bebna || prije&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|clira || lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|carmi || kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|berti || snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stuna || stici&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crane || trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tilju || linto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|glare || lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sudga || cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kanro || bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slami || jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smaji || cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caxno || condi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganlo || kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dizlo || galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|loldi || drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganra || jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rotsu || cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|palci || vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tisna || kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|frica || dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drata || mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zabna || mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fliba || snada&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gubni || sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rarna || rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junri || xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xendo || kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|racli || fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Contrasts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gunta || bandu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|danlu || spati&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tcadu || nurma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mensi || bruna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bersa || tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dunra || crisa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vensa || critu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cerni || vanci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|donri || nicte&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xekri || blabi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|preti || danfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xance || jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|birka || tuple&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fatci || cfika&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanla || nixli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanmu || ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
==Dubious cases==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|cirko || facki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|cirko || cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|jdari || ranti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|sepli || kansa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|sepli || jorne&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|krasi || fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|drani || srera&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|cnici || kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|kukte || kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124163</id>
		<title>opposites and contraries</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124163"/>
		<updated>2020-12-05T06:54:15Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Opposites==&lt;br /&gt;
Opposites (&#039;&#039;&#039;da de dukti&#039;&#039;&#039;) are about opposite ends of scales like &amp;quot;hot&amp;quot; versus &amp;quot;cold&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==List==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xlali || xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ruble || tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mutce || milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jetnu || jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nandu || frili&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|balvi || purci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nenri || bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmive || morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|masno || sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gusni || manku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tordu || clani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sampu || pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zmadu || mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnita || gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pritu || zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sipna || cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmina || vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ricfu || pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnino || slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|citno || laldo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jibni || darno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bebna || prije&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|clira || lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|carmi || kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|berti || snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stuna || stici&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crane || trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tilju || linto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|glare || lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sudga || cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kanro || bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slami || jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smaji || cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caxno || condi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganlo || kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dizlo || galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|loldi || drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganra || jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rotsu || cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|palci || vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tisna || kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|frica || dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drata || mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zabna || mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fliba || snada&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gubni || sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rarna || rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junri || xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xendo || kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|racli || fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Contrasts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gunta || bandu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|danlu || spati&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tcadu || nurma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mensi || bruna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bersa || tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dunra || crisa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vensa || critu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cerni || vanci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|donri || nicte&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xekri || blabi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|preti || danfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xance || jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|birka || tuple&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fatci || cfika&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanla || nixli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanmu || ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
==Dubious cases==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tab class=wikitable&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	facki&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
jdari	ranti&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	kansa&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	jorne&lt;br /&gt;
krasi	fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
drani	srera&lt;br /&gt;
cnici	kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
kukte	kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tab&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124162</id>
		<title>opposites and contraries</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124162"/>
		<updated>2020-12-05T06:47:11Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* List */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Opposites==&lt;br /&gt;
Opposites (&#039;&#039;&#039;da de dukti&#039;&#039;&#039;) are about opposite ends of scales like &amp;quot;hot&amp;quot; versus &amp;quot;cold&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==List==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xlali || xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ruble || tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mutce || milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jetnu || jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nandu || frili&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|balvi || purci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nenri || bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmive || morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|masno || sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gusni || manku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tordu || clani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sampu || pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zmadu || mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnita || gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pritu || zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sipna || cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmina || vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ricfu || pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnino || slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|citno || laldo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jibni || darno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bebna || prije&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|clira || lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|carmi || kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|berti || snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stuna || stici&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crane || trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tilju || linto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|glare || lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sudga || cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kanro || bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slami || jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smaji || cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caxno || condi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganlo || kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dizlo || galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|loldi || drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganra || jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rotsu || cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|palci || vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tisna || kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|frica || dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drata || mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zabna || mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fliba || snada&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gubni || sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rarna || rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junri || xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xendo || kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|racli || fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Dubious cases==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tab class=wikitable&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	facki&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
jdari	ranti&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	kansa&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	jorne&lt;br /&gt;
krasi	fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
drani	srera&lt;br /&gt;
cnici	kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
kukte	kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tab&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124161</id>
		<title>opposites and contraries</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124161"/>
		<updated>2020-12-05T05:10:37Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* List */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Opposites==&lt;br /&gt;
Opposites (&#039;&#039;&#039;da de dukti&#039;&#039;&#039;) are about opposite ends of scales like &amp;quot;hot&amp;quot; versus &amp;quot;cold&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==List==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanmu || ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanla || nixli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xlali || xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ruble || tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mutce || milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jetnu || jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pritu || zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fatci || cfika&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|birka || tuple&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xance || jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|preti || danfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nandu || frili&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|balvi || purci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nenri || bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmive || morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|masno || sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gusni || manku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tordu || clani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sampu || pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xekri || blabi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zmadu || mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnita || gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sipna || cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|donri || nicte&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cerni || vanci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmina || vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ricfu || pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnino || slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|citno || laldo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jibni || darno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bebna || prije&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vensa || critu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dunra || crisa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|clira || lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|carmi || kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|berti || snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stuna || stici&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crane || trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bersa || tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mensi || bruna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tilju || linto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|glare || lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sudga || cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kanro || bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tcadu || nurma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slami || jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|danlu || spati&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smaji || cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caxno || condi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganlo || kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dizlo || galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|loldi || drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganra || jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rotsu || cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|palci || vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tisna || kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|frica || dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drata || mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zabna || mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fliba || snada&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gubni || sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rarna || rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junri || xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gunta || bandu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xendo || kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|racli || fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Dubious cases==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tab class=wikitable&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	facki&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
jdari	ranti&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	kansa&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	jorne&lt;br /&gt;
krasi	fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
drani	srera&lt;br /&gt;
cnici	kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
kukte	kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tab&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124160</id>
		<title>opposites and contraries</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=opposites_and_contraries&amp;diff=124160"/>
		<updated>2020-12-05T05:07:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: table markups&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Opposites==&lt;br /&gt;
Opposites (&#039;&#039;&#039;da de dukti&#039;&#039;&#039;) are about opposite ends of scales like &amp;quot;hot&amp;quot; versus &amp;quot;cold&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
==List==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanmu || ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanla || nixli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xlali || xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ruble || tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mutce || milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jetnu || jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pritu || zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fatci || cfika&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|birka || tuple&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xance || jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|preti || danfu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nandu || frili&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|balvi || purci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nenri || bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmive || morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|masno || sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gusni || manku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tordu || clani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sampu || pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xekri || blabi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zmadu || mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnita || gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sipna || cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|donri || nicte&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cerni || vanci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jmina || vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ricfu || pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cnino || slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jibni || darno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bebna || prije&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vensa || critu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dunra || crisa&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|clira || lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|carmi || kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|berti || snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stuna || stici&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crane || trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bersa || tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mensi || bruna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tilju || linto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|glare || lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sudga || cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kanro || bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tcadu || nurma&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slami || jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|danlu || spati&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smaji || cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caxno || condi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganlo || kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dizlo || galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|loldi || drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ganra || jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rotsu || cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|palci || vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tisna || kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|frica || dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drata || mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|zabna || mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|fliba || snada&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gubni || sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rarna || rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junri || xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gunta || bandu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|xendo || kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|racli || fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Dubious cases==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;tab class=wikitable&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	facki&lt;br /&gt;
cirko	cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
jdari	ranti&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	kansa&lt;br /&gt;
sepli	jorne&lt;br /&gt;
krasi	fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
drani	srera&lt;br /&gt;
cnici	kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
kukte	kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/tab&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Learn_Lojban:_new_methods&amp;diff=124139</id>
		<title>Learn Lojban: new methods</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Learn_Lojban:_new_methods&amp;diff=124139"/>
		<updated>2020-10-23T16:39:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:xuncku.png|thumb|la xunre cukta|link=http://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-no-chunks/]]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!-- FIXME ko&#039;oi ciska su&#039;o na&#039;e mabla .intro --&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== The Complete Lojban Language ==&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the book [http://lojban.org/publications/cll/cll_v1.1_xhtml-no-chunks/ The Complete Lojban Language] is still considered by quite a few new learners as the best tutorial although by design this wasn&#039;t meant to be any tutorial.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Namely, the order of chapters may seem to be arbitrary to those who wish to use this book to study Lojban. So one recommendation is ... to read various sections from the book randomly. If you don&#039;t understand something skip to another part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you still wish to try something else here are some newish tutorials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== lojban.io ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[https://lojban.io lojban.io] - a free opensource platform for studying Lojban with the aid of interactive exercises.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [[The Crash Course in Lojban]] ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:re djine.png|thumb|100px|The Crash Course method|right|link=]][[Image:cogwheel-5.svg|thumb|100px|link=|The symbol of The Crash Course: nature and logic]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;The Crash Course&#039;&#039; is a course being written by [[User:Gleki|la gleki]] by combining the feedback of people learning or speaking Lojban into a tutorial. You read it, report bugs or ask questions and get replies from the author or knowledgable Lojbanists, answers to your questions get included into the course.&lt;br /&gt;
*The course tries not to use Lojbanic terminology much. It explains most Lojbanic terms in ordinary language that the learner uses from birth or school. This principle brings Lojban to people, rather than dragging people into Lojban. It adapts the teaching method to the language the student uses in everyday life. For example, for speakers of English (and most languages of Europe) The Crash Course method calls [[brivla]] &amp;quot;verbs&amp;quot;, calls [[sumti]] &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot;. Although, such terms as &amp;quot;noun&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;verb&amp;quot; can mean different things in different languages they are fine for initially explaining how Lojban works.&lt;br /&gt;
*The course has a compact [[The Crash Course: Dictionary|dictionary]] as an addendum that gives examples for the most commonly used verbs and particles.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--*{{citation needed span|The course explains new styles that are popular in the active Lojban community.|reason=ku-less style, anaphoric voi, ne+BAI referring to main bridi are everything but popular}}&lt;br /&gt;
*{{citation needed span|The Crash Course tries to preserve the current state of the language as much as possible.|reason=some of the usage taught is new (2016) and used only by the author}}&lt;br /&gt;
*{{citation needed span|The course doesn&#039;t invent any new dialects, what is explained in the course is either used by the community or formalized by the committee of planning Lojban ([[BPFK]]).|reason=Text produced by CC users stands out (subjectively mi&#039;e la cirko)}}--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The intended finalization of this course are years 2017 - 2019. Until then minor bugs can be found in it but the course is mostly already usable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[la karda|Lojban cards]]==&lt;br /&gt;
A distilled overview of the language by [[User:Cadguha|ldlework]], explaining much of the grammar succinctly using examples and diagrams.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Lojban Wave Lessons]]==&lt;br /&gt;
A fairly complete textbook initially based on the format of the live lessons given in the [[Lojban IRC]] chat. Initially written by [[User:Klaku|la klaku]] and [[User:Kribacr|la .kribacr.]] and updated over the years by many others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Introduction to Lojban==&lt;br /&gt;
[https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxngu1CNj7wdfnh2eXU2TTFJZi1TeDV1cVlqbjl6TWxYbXgwbldRRzRoaFF5ay1oOFlWYVk Lojban in simple phrases]. This course is already available for several languages.&lt;br /&gt;
Features:&lt;br /&gt;
*a slick format&lt;br /&gt;
*short introduction into Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
Your feedback and suggestions can make the course more comprehensive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You may translate and adapt this course to your native language if it&#039;s not already there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lojban guide==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Provides hover translations of both sentences/phrases and words they contain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
https://daeldir.github.io/jbogidva/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Flashcard courses==&lt;br /&gt;
* Simple Lojban in phrases [http://www.memrise.com/course/928703/simple-lojban-in-phrases/ on Memrise.com] teaches Lojban through phrases only allowing you to automatically passively learn the nuts and bolts of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[https://mw.lojban.org/images/4/46/la_stika.pdf A book with pictures and English translations]==&lt;br /&gt;
Read more about this method: [[Learning with context|learning with context]]&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
==[http://foldr.moe/hajiloji My First Lojban]==&lt;br /&gt;
Learn the foundations of Lojban grammar by reading the light-hearted conversations between three girls.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=semantic_classes_of_verbs&amp;diff=124132</id>
		<title>semantic classes of verbs</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=semantic_classes_of_verbs&amp;diff=124132"/>
		<updated>2020-10-16T14:42:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
! gismu&lt;br /&gt;
! concept&lt;br /&gt;
! klesi 1&lt;br /&gt;
! klesi 2&lt;br /&gt;
! klesi 3&lt;br /&gt;
! klesi 4&lt;br /&gt;
! klesi 5&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| manri&lt;br /&gt;
|| reference&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Contexts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcini&lt;br /&gt;
|| situation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Contexts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| environment&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Contexts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bapli&lt;br /&gt;
|| force&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| frati&lt;br /&gt;
|| react&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jalge&lt;br /&gt;
|| result&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krinu&lt;br /&gt;
|| reason&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mukti&lt;br /&gt;
|| motive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rinka&lt;br /&gt;
|| cause&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ralci&lt;br /&gt;
|| delicate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rinju&lt;br /&gt;
|| restrain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| randa&lt;br /&gt;
|| yield&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krasi&lt;br /&gt;
|| source&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jarco&lt;br /&gt;
|| show&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| basti&lt;br /&gt;
|| replace&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cenba&lt;br /&gt;
|| vary&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| binxo&lt;br /&gt;
|| become&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| canci&lt;br /&gt;
|| vanish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
|| modify&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stali&lt;br /&gt;
|| remain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stika&lt;br /&gt;
|| adjust&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stodi&lt;br /&gt;
|| constant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vitno&lt;br /&gt;
|| permanent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zasni&lt;br /&gt;
|| temporary&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event changes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| citri&lt;br /&gt;
|| history&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fate&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfari&lt;br /&gt;
|| initiate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ranji&lt;br /&gt;
|| continue&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| denpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| wait&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krefu&lt;br /&gt;
|| recur&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cafne&lt;br /&gt;
|| often&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cumki&lt;br /&gt;
|| possible&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dicra&lt;br /&gt;
|| interrupt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dikni&lt;br /&gt;
|| regular&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fanmo&lt;br /&gt;
|| end&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| event&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mulno&lt;br /&gt;
|| complete&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pruce&lt;br /&gt;
|| process&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rapli&lt;br /&gt;
|| repeat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| renvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| survive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sisti&lt;br /&gt;
|| cease&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snada&lt;br /&gt;
|| succeed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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||&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| suksa&lt;br /&gt;
|| sudden&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vitci&lt;br /&gt;
|| irregular&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnino&lt;br /&gt;
|| new&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fliba&lt;br /&gt;
|| fail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|| fatne&lt;br /&gt;
|| reverse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|| bancu&lt;br /&gt;
|| beyond&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| drata&lt;br /&gt;
|| other&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dukti&lt;br /&gt;
|| opposite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dunli&lt;br /&gt;
|| equal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| frica&lt;br /&gt;
|| differ&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| karbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| compare&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|| mintu&lt;br /&gt;
|| same&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| mleca&lt;br /&gt;
|| less&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| panra&lt;br /&gt;
|| parallel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| simsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| similar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| traji&lt;br /&gt;
|| superlative&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General comparisons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zmadu&lt;br /&gt;
|| more&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| cerda&lt;br /&gt;
|| heir&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sarxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| harmonious&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|| simxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| mutual&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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|| srana&lt;br /&gt;
|| pertain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pagre&lt;br /&gt;
|| pass through&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
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|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
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|| rinci&lt;br /&gt;
|| drain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Materials &amp;amp; substances&lt;br /&gt;
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|| farlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| fall&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|| benji&lt;br /&gt;
|| transfer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bevri&lt;br /&gt;
|| carry&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
|| walk&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
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|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cando&lt;br /&gt;
|| idle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| catke&lt;br /&gt;
|| shove&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cliva&lt;br /&gt;
|| leave&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cpare&lt;br /&gt;
|| climb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| flecu&lt;br /&gt;
|| flow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fulta&lt;br /&gt;
|| float&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gunro&lt;br /&gt;
|| roll&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jabre&lt;br /&gt;
|| brake&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jersi&lt;br /&gt;
|| chase&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jmaji&lt;br /&gt;
|| gather&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lacpu&lt;br /&gt;
|| pull&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lafti&lt;br /&gt;
|| lift&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| limna&lt;br /&gt;
|| swim&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| litru&lt;br /&gt;
|| travel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plipe&lt;br /&gt;
|| leap&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| punji&lt;br /&gt;
|| put&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| renro&lt;br /&gt;
|| throw&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sakli&lt;br /&gt;
|| slide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sfubu&lt;br /&gt;
|| dive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stapa&lt;br /&gt;
|| step&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vofli&lt;br /&gt;
|| flight&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xruti&lt;br /&gt;
|| return&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jicla&lt;br /&gt;
|| stir&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinru&lt;br /&gt;
|| immerse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| batci&lt;br /&gt;
|| bite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bikla&lt;br /&gt;
|| whip&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| catra&lt;br /&gt;
|| kill&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cpacu&lt;br /&gt;
|| get&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| danre&lt;br /&gt;
|| pressure&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| darxi&lt;br /&gt;
|| hit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gunta&lt;br /&gt;
|| attack&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgari&lt;br /&gt;
|| grasp&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| clean&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lasna&lt;br /&gt;
|| fasten&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lumci&lt;br /&gt;
|| wash&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mosra&lt;br /&gt;
|| friction&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sakci&lt;br /&gt;
|| suck&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| satre&lt;br /&gt;
|| stroke&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tikpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| kick&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tunta&lt;br /&gt;
|| poke&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| janli&lt;br /&gt;
|| collide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cokcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| soak up&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcena&lt;br /&gt;
|| stretch&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| porpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| break&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| febvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| boil&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| katna&lt;br /&gt;
|| cut&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| runta&lt;br /&gt;
|| dissolve&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| preja&lt;br /&gt;
|| spread&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spoja&lt;br /&gt;
|| explode&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fukpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| copy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| runme&lt;br /&gt;
|| melt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sraku&lt;br /&gt;
|| scratch&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cikre&lt;br /&gt;
|| repair&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| daspo&lt;br /&gt;
|| destroy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dunja&lt;br /&gt;
|| freeze&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fendi&lt;br /&gt;
|| divide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jmina&lt;br /&gt;
|| add&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kakpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| dig&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lunsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| condense&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| marxa&lt;br /&gt;
|| mash&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mixre&lt;br /&gt;
|| mixture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| polje&lt;br /&gt;
|| fold&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| setca&lt;br /&gt;
|| insert&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| torni&lt;br /&gt;
|| twist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vimcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| remove&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zalvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| grind&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spali&lt;br /&gt;
|| polish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| guska&lt;br /&gt;
|| scrape&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cirko&lt;br /&gt;
|| lose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dejni&lt;br /&gt;
|| owe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dunda&lt;br /&gt;
|| give&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jbera&lt;br /&gt;
|| borrow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kavbu&lt;br /&gt;
|| capture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lebna&lt;br /&gt;
|| take&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ponse&lt;br /&gt;
|| possess&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ralte&lt;br /&gt;
|| retain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sabji&lt;br /&gt;
|| provide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kakne&lt;br /&gt;
|| able&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Potential&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vlipa&lt;br /&gt;
|| powerful&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Potential&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tsali&lt;br /&gt;
|| strong&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Potential&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ruble&lt;br /&gt;
|| weak&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Potential&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vlile&lt;br /&gt;
|| violent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Potential&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snura&lt;br /&gt;
|| secure&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Safety&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bandu&lt;br /&gt;
|| defend&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Safety&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckape&lt;br /&gt;
|| peril&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Safety&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kajde&lt;br /&gt;
|| warn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Safety&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| marbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| shelter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Safety&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zifre&lt;br /&gt;
|| free&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| do&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zukte&lt;br /&gt;
|| act&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| selfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| serve&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| binra&lt;br /&gt;
|| insure&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kurji&lt;br /&gt;
|| take care of&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sidju&lt;br /&gt;
|| help&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| troci&lt;br /&gt;
|| try&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rivbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| avoid&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xlura&lt;br /&gt;
|| influence&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zunti&lt;br /&gt;
|| interfere&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rirci&lt;br /&gt;
|| rare&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zasti&lt;br /&gt;
|| exist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckini&lt;br /&gt;
|| related&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krati&lt;br /&gt;
|| represent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| balance&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| minra&lt;br /&gt;
|| reflect&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sevzi&lt;br /&gt;
|| self&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| General relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sutra&lt;br /&gt;
|| fast&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| masno&lt;br /&gt;
|| slow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pilno&lt;br /&gt;
|| use&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snuti&lt;br /&gt;
|| accidental&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| curmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| let&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| raktu&lt;br /&gt;
|| trouble&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sarji&lt;br /&gt;
|| support&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional interactions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fanta&lt;br /&gt;
|| prevent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional relation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jatna&lt;br /&gt;
|| captain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sazri&lt;br /&gt;
|| operate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| javni&lt;br /&gt;
|| rule&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jitro&lt;br /&gt;
|| control&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vipsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| deputy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gidva&lt;br /&gt;
|| guide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions of volition&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| desku&lt;br /&gt;
|| shake&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slilu&lt;br /&gt;
|| oscillate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ctaru&lt;br /&gt;
|| tide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Movement&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jetce&lt;br /&gt;
|| jet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dirce&lt;br /&gt;
|| radiate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fatri&lt;br /&gt;
|| distribute&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dimna&lt;br /&gt;
|| fate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fate&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| funca&lt;br /&gt;
|| luck&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fate&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vasru&lt;br /&gt;
|| contain&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kunti&lt;br /&gt;
|| empty&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| culno&lt;br /&gt;
|| full&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bakfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bundle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sorcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| store&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tisna&lt;br /&gt;
|| fill&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| baktu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bucket&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| botpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| bottle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dacru&lt;br /&gt;
|| drawer&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dakli&lt;br /&gt;
|| sack&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kabri&lt;br /&gt;
|| cup&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanka&lt;br /&gt;
|| basket&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lante&lt;br /&gt;
|| can&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| palne&lt;br /&gt;
|| tray&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| palta&lt;br /&gt;
|| plate&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| patxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| pot&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tansi&lt;br /&gt;
|| pan&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| box&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Containers (material)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bakfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bundle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bende&lt;br /&gt;
|| crew&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cecmu&lt;br /&gt;
|| community&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmima&lt;br /&gt;
|| member&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| girzu&lt;br /&gt;
|| group&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gunma&lt;br /&gt;
|| jointly&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kamni&lt;br /&gt;
|| committee&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klesi&lt;br /&gt;
|| class&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| liste&lt;br /&gt;
|| list&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pagbu&lt;br /&gt;
|| part&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| porsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| sequence&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spisa&lt;br /&gt;
|| piece&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vrici&lt;br /&gt;
|| miscellaneous&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| steci&lt;br /&gt;
|| specific&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lidne&lt;br /&gt;
|| precede&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mupli&lt;br /&gt;
|| example&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Groups &amp;amp; parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| banro&lt;br /&gt;
|| grow&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| citno&lt;br /&gt;
|| young&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| farvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| develop&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| laldo&lt;br /&gt;
|| old&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| makcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| mature&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pencu&lt;br /&gt;
|| touch&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zvati&lt;br /&gt;
|| at&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gapru&lt;br /&gt;
|| above&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jbini&lt;br /&gt;
|| between&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jorne&lt;br /&gt;
|| joined&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cpana&lt;br /&gt;
|| upon&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nenri&lt;br /&gt;
|| in&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bartu&lt;br /&gt;
|| out&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| berti&lt;br /&gt;
|| north&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnita&lt;br /&gt;
|| beneath&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| crane&lt;br /&gt;
|| front&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| darno&lt;br /&gt;
|| far&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| diklo&lt;br /&gt;
|| local&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dizlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| low&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| farna&lt;br /&gt;
|| direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| galtu&lt;br /&gt;
|| high&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jibni&lt;br /&gt;
|| near&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lamji&lt;br /&gt;
|| adjacent&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| midju&lt;br /&gt;
|| middle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mlana&lt;br /&gt;
|| side&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mokca&lt;br /&gt;
|| point&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pritu&lt;br /&gt;
|| right&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ragve&lt;br /&gt;
|| across&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snanu&lt;br /&gt;
|| south&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sruri&lt;br /&gt;
|| surround&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stici&lt;br /&gt;
|| west&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stuna&lt;br /&gt;
|| east&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stuzi&lt;br /&gt;
|| site&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| trixe&lt;br /&gt;
|| behind&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zunle&lt;br /&gt;
|| left&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dandu&lt;br /&gt;
|| hang&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sanli&lt;br /&gt;
|| stand&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sraji&lt;br /&gt;
|| vertical&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vreta&lt;br /&gt;
|| reclining&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zutse&lt;br /&gt;
|| sit&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinta&lt;br /&gt;
|| level&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gubni&lt;br /&gt;
|| public&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mipri&lt;br /&gt;
|| secret&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sivni&lt;br /&gt;
|| private&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfila&lt;br /&gt;
|| flaw&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ciste&lt;br /&gt;
|| system&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnici&lt;br /&gt;
|| orderly&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cunso&lt;br /&gt;
|| random&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganzu&lt;br /&gt;
|| organize&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinzi&lt;br /&gt;
|| innate&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kalsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| chaotic&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pluja&lt;br /&gt;
|| complicated&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prane&lt;br /&gt;
|| perfect&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sampu&lt;br /&gt;
|| simple&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spofu&lt;br /&gt;
|| broken&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stura&lt;br /&gt;
|| structure&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mapti&lt;br /&gt;
|| fit&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcila&lt;br /&gt;
|| detail&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcana&lt;br /&gt;
|| station&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| carmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| intense&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckaji&lt;br /&gt;
|| quality&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnano&lt;br /&gt;
|| norm&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fadni&lt;br /&gt;
|| ordinary&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kampu&lt;br /&gt;
|| common&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kandi&lt;br /&gt;
|| dim&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| manfo&lt;br /&gt;
|| uniform&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| milxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| mild&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klina&lt;br /&gt;
|| clear&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nivji&lt;br /&gt;
|| knit&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fenso&lt;br /&gt;
|| sew&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jivbu&lt;br /&gt;
|| weave&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical transformations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pilka&lt;br /&gt;
|| crust&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lunbe&lt;br /&gt;
|| bare&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| panlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| slice&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| korcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bent&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bargu&lt;br /&gt;
|| arch&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| barna&lt;br /&gt;
|| mark&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bidju&lt;br /&gt;
|| bead&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bliku&lt;br /&gt;
|| block&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bolci&lt;br /&gt;
|| ball&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| boxfo&lt;br /&gt;
|| sheet&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| boxna&lt;br /&gt;
|| wave&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| calku&lt;br /&gt;
|| shell&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfine&lt;br /&gt;
|| wedge&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cilta&lt;br /&gt;
|| thread&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinje&lt;br /&gt;
|| wrinkle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| clupa&lt;br /&gt;
|| loop&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cukla&lt;br /&gt;
|| round&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| danmo&lt;br /&gt;
|| smoke&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dasri&lt;br /&gt;
|| ribbon&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| djine&lt;br /&gt;
|| ring&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fenra&lt;br /&gt;
|| crack&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| foldi&lt;br /&gt;
|| field&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| genxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| hook&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| grana&lt;br /&gt;
|| rod&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jesni&lt;br /&gt;
|| needle&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgena&lt;br /&gt;
|| knot&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kevna&lt;br /&gt;
|| cavity&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kinli&lt;br /&gt;
|| sharp&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kojna&lt;br /&gt;
|| corner&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| konju&lt;br /&gt;
|| cone&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| korbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| edge&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kruca&lt;br /&gt;
|| intersect&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kruvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| curve&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| morna&lt;br /&gt;
|| pattern&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| salpo&lt;br /&gt;
|| slope&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sarlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| spiral&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sefta&lt;br /&gt;
|| surface&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| selci&lt;br /&gt;
|| cell&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| senta&lt;br /&gt;
|| layer&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sirji&lt;br /&gt;
|| straight&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skuro&lt;br /&gt;
|| groove&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slanu&lt;br /&gt;
|| cylinder&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanbo&lt;br /&gt;
|| board&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tapla&lt;br /&gt;
|| tile&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tarmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| shape&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tubnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| tube&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| greku&lt;br /&gt;
|| frame&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gacri&lt;br /&gt;
|| cover&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| punli&lt;br /&gt;
|| swelling&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| closed&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kalri&lt;br /&gt;
|| open&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kluza&lt;br /&gt;
|| loose&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dirgo&lt;br /&gt;
|| drop&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| derxi&lt;br /&gt;
|| heap&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stela&lt;br /&gt;
|| lock&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| karda&lt;br /&gt;
|| card&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jipno&lt;br /&gt;
|| tip&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rufsu&lt;br /&gt;
|| rough&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| Texture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snipa&lt;br /&gt;
|| sticky&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| Texture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tengu&lt;br /&gt;
|| texture&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| Texture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xutla&lt;br /&gt;
|| smooth&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
|| Texture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sepli&lt;br /&gt;
|| apart&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nutli&lt;br /&gt;
|| neutral&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Location &amp;amp; direction&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| curve&lt;br /&gt;
|| pure&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Organization&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bemro&lt;br /&gt;
|| North American&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dzipo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Antarctican&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| friko&lt;br /&gt;
|| African&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ketco&lt;br /&gt;
|| South American&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ropno&lt;br /&gt;
|| European&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sralo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Australian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xazdo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Asiatic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Continents&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinto&lt;br /&gt;
|| well&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event causation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| panka&lt;br /&gt;
|| park&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmana&lt;br /&gt;
|| mountain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| daplu&lt;br /&gt;
|| island&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lalxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| lake&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rirxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| river&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tumla&lt;br /&gt;
|| land&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xamsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| sea&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zbani&lt;br /&gt;
|| bay&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jmifa&lt;br /&gt;
|| shoal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bratu&lt;br /&gt;
|| hail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brife&lt;br /&gt;
|| breeze&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
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||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bumru&lt;br /&gt;
|| fog&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| carvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| rain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dilnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| cloud&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lindi&lt;br /&gt;
|| lightning&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snime&lt;br /&gt;
|| snow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcima&lt;br /&gt;
|| weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| Geography&lt;br /&gt;
|| Weather&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vifne&lt;br /&gt;
|| fresh&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fusra&lt;br /&gt;
|| rotten&lt;br /&gt;
|| Growth&lt;br /&gt;
|| development &amp;amp; age&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| judri&lt;br /&gt;
|| address&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ralju&lt;br /&gt;
|| principal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| curnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| worm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Animals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| danlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| animal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Animals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bifce&lt;br /&gt;
|| bee&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinki&lt;br /&gt;
|| insect&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| civla&lt;br /&gt;
|| louse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jalra&lt;br /&gt;
|| cockroach&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jukni&lt;br /&gt;
|| spider&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| manti&lt;br /&gt;
|| ant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sfani&lt;br /&gt;
|| fly&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| toldi&lt;br /&gt;
|| butterfly&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arthropods&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cipni&lt;br /&gt;
|| bird&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| datka&lt;br /&gt;
|| duck&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gunse&lt;br /&gt;
|| goose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jipci&lt;br /&gt;
|| chicken&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| korvo&lt;br /&gt;
|| crow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xruki&lt;br /&gt;
|| turkey&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Birds&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klaku&lt;br /&gt;
|| weep&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cikna&lt;br /&gt;
|| awake&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinse&lt;br /&gt;
|| sexual&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fetsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| female&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gletu&lt;br /&gt;
|| copulate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jbena&lt;br /&gt;
|| born&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kafke&lt;br /&gt;
|| cough&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kalci&lt;br /&gt;
|| feces&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nakni&lt;br /&gt;
|| male&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinca&lt;br /&gt;
|| urine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rorci&lt;br /&gt;
|| procreate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| senci&lt;br /&gt;
|| sneeze&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sipna&lt;br /&gt;
|| sleep&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sputu&lt;br /&gt;
|| spit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| taske&lt;br /&gt;
|| thirst&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| tired&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tunlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| swallow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vamtu&lt;br /&gt;
|| vomit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vasxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| breathe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vikmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| excrete&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xagji&lt;br /&gt;
|| hunger&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xasne&lt;br /&gt;
|| sweat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bodily functions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bongu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bone&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ciblu&lt;br /&gt;
|| blood&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| denci&lt;br /&gt;
|| tooth&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| galxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| throat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganti&lt;br /&gt;
|| gonad&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganxo&lt;br /&gt;
|| anus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tance&lt;br /&gt;
|| tongue&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tarbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| embryo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tatru&lt;br /&gt;
|| breast&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xedja&lt;br /&gt;
|| jaw&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| balji&lt;br /&gt;
|| bulb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Botanical anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| genja&lt;br /&gt;
|| root&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Botanical anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jimca&lt;br /&gt;
|| branch&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Botanical anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pezli&lt;br /&gt;
|| leaf&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Botanical anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stani&lt;br /&gt;
|| stalk&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Botanical anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cange&lt;br /&gt;
|| farm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Cultivation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| crepu&lt;br /&gt;
|| harvest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Cultivation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plixa&lt;br /&gt;
|| plow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Cultivation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| purdi&lt;br /&gt;
|| garden&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Cultivation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sombo&lt;br /&gt;
|| sow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Cultivation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| birje&lt;br /&gt;
|| beer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckafi&lt;br /&gt;
|| coffee&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jikru&lt;br /&gt;
|| liquor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jisra&lt;br /&gt;
|| juice&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ladru&lt;br /&gt;
|| milk&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sodva&lt;br /&gt;
|| soda&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcati&lt;br /&gt;
|| tea&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vanju&lt;br /&gt;
|| wine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xalka&lt;br /&gt;
|| alcohol&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Drinks&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| betfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| abdomen&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| birka&lt;br /&gt;
|| arm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cidni&lt;br /&gt;
|| knee&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnebo&lt;br /&gt;
|| neck&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ctebi&lt;br /&gt;
|| lip&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cutne&lt;br /&gt;
|| chest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| degji&lt;br /&gt;
|| finger&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| flira&lt;br /&gt;
|| face&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| foot&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| janco&lt;br /&gt;
|| shoulder&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanla&lt;br /&gt;
|| eye&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kerfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| hair&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kerlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| ear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mebri&lt;br /&gt;
|| brow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| moklu&lt;br /&gt;
|| mouth&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nazbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| nose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinji&lt;br /&gt;
|| penis&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plibu&lt;br /&gt;
|| pubic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skapi&lt;br /&gt;
|| pelt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stedu&lt;br /&gt;
|| head&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tamji&lt;br /&gt;
|| thumb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tuple&lt;br /&gt;
|| leg&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vibna&lt;br /&gt;
|| vagina&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vlagi&lt;br /&gt;
|| vulva&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xadni&lt;br /&gt;
|| body&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xance&lt;br /&gt;
|| hand&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zargu&lt;br /&gt;
|| buttock&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| External anatomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| panzi&lt;br /&gt;
|| offsprin&lt;br /&gt;
g&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bersa&lt;br /&gt;
|| son&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bruna&lt;br /&gt;
|| brother&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dzena&lt;br /&gt;
|| elder&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| famti&lt;br /&gt;
|| aunt or uncle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
|| family&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mamta&lt;br /&gt;
|| mother&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mensi&lt;br /&gt;
|| sister&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| patfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| father&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rirni&lt;br /&gt;
|| parent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tamne&lt;br /&gt;
|| cousin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| daughter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tunba&lt;br /&gt;
|| sibling&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Family&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cidja&lt;br /&gt;
|| food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| citka&lt;br /&gt;
|| eat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jduli&lt;br /&gt;
|| jelly&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| drink&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| meal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jukpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| cook&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food (generalised)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bavmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| barley&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cunmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| millet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dembi&lt;br /&gt;
|| bean&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gurni&lt;br /&gt;
|| grain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mavji&lt;br /&gt;
|| oats&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| maxri&lt;br /&gt;
|| wheat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mraji&lt;br /&gt;
|| rye&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rismi&lt;br /&gt;
|| rice&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sobde&lt;br /&gt;
|| soya&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sorgu&lt;br /&gt;
|| sorghum&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xruba&lt;br /&gt;
|| buckwheat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zumri&lt;br /&gt;
|| maize&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Grains&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tsapi&lt;br /&gt;
|| seasoning&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cakla&lt;br /&gt;
|| chocolate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cirla&lt;br /&gt;
|| cheese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kruji&lt;br /&gt;
|| cream&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| matne&lt;br /&gt;
|| butter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nanba&lt;br /&gt;
|| bread&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rectu&lt;br /&gt;
|| meat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sakta&lt;br /&gt;
|| sugar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| salta&lt;br /&gt;
|| salad&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sanso&lt;br /&gt;
|| sauce&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sigja&lt;br /&gt;
|| cigar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| silna&lt;br /&gt;
|| salt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snuji&lt;br /&gt;
|| sandwich&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stasu&lt;br /&gt;
|| soup&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Prepared&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| badna&lt;br /&gt;
|| banana&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| figre&lt;br /&gt;
|| fig&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| grute&lt;br /&gt;
|| fruit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| guzme&lt;br /&gt;
|| melon&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jbari&lt;br /&gt;
|| berry&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kobli&lt;br /&gt;
|| cabbage&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kokso&lt;br /&gt;
|| coconut&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| narge&lt;br /&gt;
|| nut&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nimre&lt;br /&gt;
|| citrus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pamga&lt;br /&gt;
|| papaya&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| patlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| potato&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| perli&lt;br /&gt;
|| pear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plise&lt;br /&gt;
|| apple&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| samcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| cassava&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sluni&lt;br /&gt;
|| onion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smela&lt;br /&gt;
|| plum&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stagi&lt;br /&gt;
|| vegetable&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sunga&lt;br /&gt;
|| garlic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tamca&lt;br /&gt;
|| tomato&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Food&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vegetation&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gumri&lt;br /&gt;
|| mushroom&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fungi&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mledi&lt;br /&gt;
|| mold&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fungi&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cilce&lt;br /&gt;
|| wild&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ferti&lt;br /&gt;
|| fertile&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgina&lt;br /&gt;
|| gene&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jmive&lt;br /&gt;
|| live&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jutsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| species&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| protein&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| morsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| dead&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| parji&lt;br /&gt;
|| parasite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sovda&lt;br /&gt;
|| egg&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tsiju&lt;br /&gt;
|| seed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bilma&lt;br /&gt;
|| ill&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cagna&lt;br /&gt;
|| wound&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinku&lt;br /&gt;
|| vaccine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jurme&lt;br /&gt;
|| germ&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanro&lt;br /&gt;
|| healthy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kenra&lt;br /&gt;
|| cancer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mikce&lt;br /&gt;
|| doctor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vidru&lt;br /&gt;
|| virus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xrani&lt;br /&gt;
|| injure&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Health &amp;amp; medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| besna&lt;br /&gt;
|| brain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| canti&lt;br /&gt;
|| gut&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cigla&lt;br /&gt;
|| gland&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fepri&lt;br /&gt;
|| lung&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gutra&lt;br /&gt;
|| womb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| livga&lt;br /&gt;
|| liver&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nirna&lt;br /&gt;
|| nerve&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rango&lt;br /&gt;
|| organ&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| risna&lt;br /&gt;
|| heart&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sluji&lt;br /&gt;
|| muscle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Internal organs&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bakni&lt;br /&gt;
|| bovine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinfo&lt;br /&gt;
|| lion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cribe&lt;br /&gt;
|| bear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gerku&lt;br /&gt;
|| dog&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanba&lt;br /&gt;
|| goat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kumte&lt;br /&gt;
|| camel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| labno&lt;br /&gt;
|| wolf&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ladru&lt;br /&gt;
|| milk&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanme&lt;br /&gt;
|| sheep&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lorxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| fox&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mabru&lt;br /&gt;
|| mammal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mirli&lt;br /&gt;
|| deer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
|| cat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ractu&lt;br /&gt;
|| rabbit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ratcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| rat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| remna&lt;br /&gt;
|| human&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smacu&lt;br /&gt;
|| mouse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smani&lt;br /&gt;
|| monkey&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tirxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| tiger&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xanto&lt;br /&gt;
|| elephant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xarju&lt;br /&gt;
|| pig&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xasli&lt;br /&gt;
|| donkey&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xirma&lt;br /&gt;
|| horse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mammals&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgalu&lt;br /&gt;
|| claw&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jirna&lt;br /&gt;
|| horn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nalci&lt;br /&gt;
|| wing&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pimlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| feather&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rebla&lt;br /&gt;
|| tail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sufti&lt;br /&gt;
|| hoof&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-human body parts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cifnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| infant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nanla&lt;br /&gt;
|| boy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
|| man&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
|| woman&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nixli&lt;br /&gt;
|| girl&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prenu&lt;br /&gt;
|| person&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| verba&lt;br /&gt;
|| child&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| People&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bamju&lt;br /&gt;
|| bamboo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cindu&lt;br /&gt;
|| oak&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckunu&lt;br /&gt;
|| conifer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| clika&lt;br /&gt;
|| mossy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| latna&lt;br /&gt;
|| lotus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lelxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| lily&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mango&lt;br /&gt;
|| mango&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| marna&lt;br /&gt;
|| hemp&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rozgu&lt;br /&gt;
|| rose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spati&lt;br /&gt;
|| plant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| srasu&lt;br /&gt;
|| grass&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanko&lt;br /&gt;
|| tobacco&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tricu&lt;br /&gt;
|| tree&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tujli&lt;br /&gt;
|| tulip&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xrula&lt;br /&gt;
|| flower&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Plants (non-edible by default)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| banfi&lt;br /&gt;
|| amphibian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vertebrates&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| finpe&lt;br /&gt;
|| fish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vertebrates&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| respa&lt;br /&gt;
|| reptile&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vertebrates&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| since&lt;br /&gt;
|| snake&lt;br /&gt;
|| Living&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vertebrates&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sinxa&lt;br /&gt;
|| sign&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sitna&lt;br /&gt;
|| cite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jdika&lt;br /&gt;
|| decrease&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zenba&lt;br /&gt;
|| increase&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| banzu&lt;br /&gt;
|| suffice&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cimni&lt;br /&gt;
|| infinite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| claxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| without&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dukse&lt;br /&gt;
|| excess&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kansa&lt;br /&gt;
|| with&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klani&lt;br /&gt;
|| quantity&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mutce&lt;br /&gt;
|| much&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sarcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| necessary&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| satci&lt;br /&gt;
|| exact&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mansa&lt;br /&gt;
|| satisfy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Amounts&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gusni&lt;br /&gt;
|| illumine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| manku&lt;br /&gt;
|| dark&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cerni&lt;br /&gt;
|| morning&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| donri&lt;br /&gt;
|| daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| murse&lt;br /&gt;
|| glimmering&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nicte&lt;br /&gt;
|| night&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vanci&lt;br /&gt;
|| evening&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ctino&lt;br /&gt;
|| shadow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Light &amp;amp; daytime&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmaci&lt;br /&gt;
|| mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dilcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| quotient&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dugri&lt;br /&gt;
|| logarithm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fancu&lt;br /&gt;
|| function&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| frinu&lt;br /&gt;
|| fraction&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jganu&lt;br /&gt;
|| angle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kancu&lt;br /&gt;
|| count&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanji&lt;br /&gt;
|| calculate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kubli&lt;br /&gt;
|| cube&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kurfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| square&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| linji&lt;br /&gt;
|| line&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mekso&lt;br /&gt;
|| MEX&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| namcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| number&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| parbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| ratio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pilji&lt;br /&gt;
|| multiply&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plita&lt;br /&gt;
|| plane&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| radno&lt;br /&gt;
|| radian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| saclu&lt;br /&gt;
|| decimal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sarni&lt;br /&gt;
|| triangle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sinso&lt;br /&gt;
|| sine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stero&lt;br /&gt;
|| steradian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sumji&lt;br /&gt;
|| sum&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| tangent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tenfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| exponential&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mathematics&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| delno&lt;br /&gt;
|| candela&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| grake&lt;br /&gt;
|| gram&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kelvo&lt;br /&gt;
|| kelvin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| litce&lt;br /&gt;
|| liter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mitre&lt;br /&gt;
|| meter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| molro&lt;br /&gt;
|| mole&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xampo&lt;br /&gt;
|| ampere&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bunda&lt;br /&gt;
|| pound&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dekpu&lt;br /&gt;
|| gallon&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gutci&lt;br /&gt;
|| cubit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kramu&lt;br /&gt;
|| acre&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| minli&lt;br /&gt;
|| mile&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Non-metric&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| centi&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.01&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| decti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.1&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dekto&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;10&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| femti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.000000000000001&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gigdo&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1000000000&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gocti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E-24&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gotro&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E+24&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kilto&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1000&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| megdo&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1000000&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mikri&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.000001&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| milti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.001&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nanvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.000000001&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| petso&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E+15&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| picti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;0.000000000001&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| terto&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1000000000000&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xadba&lt;br /&gt;
|| half&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xatsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E-18&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xecto&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;100&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xexso&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E+18&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zepti&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E-21&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zetro&lt;br /&gt;
|| &amp;lt;div align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;1.00E+21&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Numeric&lt;br /&gt;
|| metric prefixes&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| balvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| future&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cabna&lt;br /&gt;
|| now&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cedra&lt;br /&gt;
|| era&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| clira&lt;br /&gt;
|| early&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| datru&lt;br /&gt;
|| date&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| detri&lt;br /&gt;
|| date&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ditcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| duration&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| junla&lt;br /&gt;
|| clock&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lerci&lt;br /&gt;
|| late&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| purci&lt;br /&gt;
|| past&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcika&lt;br /&gt;
|| time of day&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| temci&lt;br /&gt;
|| time&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Points in time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| citsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| season&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Seasons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| crisa&lt;br /&gt;
|| summer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Seasons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| critu&lt;br /&gt;
|| autumn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Seasons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dunra&lt;br /&gt;
|| winter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Seasons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vensa&lt;br /&gt;
|| spring&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Seasons&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cimde&lt;br /&gt;
|| dimension&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cisni&lt;br /&gt;
|| size&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckilu&lt;br /&gt;
|| scale&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gradu&lt;br /&gt;
|| unit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| junta&lt;br /&gt;
|| weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| merli&lt;br /&gt;
|| measure&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tordu&lt;br /&gt;
|| short&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| banli&lt;br /&gt;
|| great&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| barda&lt;br /&gt;
|| big&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| caxno&lt;br /&gt;
|| shallow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinla&lt;br /&gt;
|| thin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| clani&lt;br /&gt;
|| long&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmalu&lt;br /&gt;
|| small&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| condi&lt;br /&gt;
|| deep&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganra&lt;br /&gt;
|| broad&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jarki&lt;br /&gt;
|| narrow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| linto&lt;br /&gt;
|| lightweight&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rotsu&lt;br /&gt;
|| thick&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tagji&lt;br /&gt;
|| snug&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tilju&lt;br /&gt;
|| heavy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plana&lt;br /&gt;
|| plump&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Size &amp;amp; weight (subjective)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cacra&lt;br /&gt;
|| hour&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| djedi&lt;br /&gt;
|| full day&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jeftu&lt;br /&gt;
|| week&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| masti&lt;br /&gt;
|| month&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mentu&lt;br /&gt;
|| minute&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nanca&lt;br /&gt;
|| year&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| snidu&lt;br /&gt;
|| second&lt;br /&gt;
|| Measures&lt;br /&gt;
|| Units of time&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pixra&lt;br /&gt;
|| picture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Abstractions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prina&lt;br /&gt;
|| print&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Abstractions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smuni&lt;br /&gt;
|| meaning&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Abstractions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sucta&lt;br /&gt;
|| abstract&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Abstractions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnemu&lt;br /&gt;
|| reward&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Possession interactions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jadni&lt;br /&gt;
|| adorn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| basna&lt;br /&gt;
|| emphasize&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinri&lt;br /&gt;
|| interesting&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cizra&lt;br /&gt;
|| strange&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fraxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| forgive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanpe&lt;br /&gt;
|| expect&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lakne&lt;br /&gt;
|| probable&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mabla&lt;br /&gt;
|| derogative&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| melbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| beautiful&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pluka&lt;br /&gt;
|| pleasant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spaji&lt;br /&gt;
|| surprise&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| trina&lt;br /&gt;
|| attract&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vajni&lt;br /&gt;
|| important&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| venfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| revenge&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zabna&lt;br /&gt;
|| favorable&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zanru&lt;br /&gt;
|| approve&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| blabi&lt;br /&gt;
|| white&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| blanu&lt;br /&gt;
|| blue&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bunre&lt;br /&gt;
|| brown&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cicna&lt;br /&gt;
|| cyan&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| crino&lt;br /&gt;
|| green&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| grusi&lt;br /&gt;
|| gray&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| narju&lt;br /&gt;
|| orange&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nukni&lt;br /&gt;
|| magenta&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pelxu&lt;br /&gt;
|| yellow&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skari&lt;br /&gt;
|| color&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xekri&lt;br /&gt;
|| black&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xunre&lt;br /&gt;
|| red&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zirpu&lt;br /&gt;
|| purple&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Color&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| terpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| fear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckeji&lt;br /&gt;
|| ashamed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| badri&lt;br /&gt;
|| sad&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| betri&lt;br /&gt;
|| tragedy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bilga&lt;br /&gt;
|| obliged&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| birti&lt;br /&gt;
|| certain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| burna&lt;br /&gt;
|| embarrassed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
|| confusing&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinmo&lt;br /&gt;
|| emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cisma&lt;br /&gt;
|| smile&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckasu&lt;br /&gt;
|| ridicule&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckire&lt;br /&gt;
|| grateful&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmila&lt;br /&gt;
|| laugh&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dapma&lt;br /&gt;
|| curse&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| djica&lt;br /&gt;
|| desire&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dunku&lt;br /&gt;
|| anguish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fanza&lt;br /&gt;
|| annoy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fengu&lt;br /&gt;
|| angry&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fenki&lt;br /&gt;
|| crazy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gleki&lt;br /&gt;
|| happy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jenca&lt;br /&gt;
|| shock&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgira&lt;br /&gt;
|| pride&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jilra&lt;br /&gt;
|| jealous&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| junri&lt;br /&gt;
|| serious&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kecti&lt;br /&gt;
|| pity&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kucli&lt;br /&gt;
|| curious&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kufra&lt;br /&gt;
|| comfort&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kusru&lt;br /&gt;
|| cruel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| manci&lt;br /&gt;
|| wonder&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nelci&lt;br /&gt;
|| fond&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pacna&lt;br /&gt;
|| hope&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prami&lt;br /&gt;
|| love&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sinma&lt;br /&gt;
|| esteem&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| steba&lt;br /&gt;
|| frustration&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| surla&lt;br /&gt;
|| relax&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcica&lt;br /&gt;
|| deceive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xajmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| funny&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
|| levity&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xalni&lt;br /&gt;
|| panic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xanka&lt;br /&gt;
|| nervous&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xebni&lt;br /&gt;
|| hate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xenru&lt;br /&gt;
|| regret&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zdile&lt;br /&gt;
|| amusing&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zungi&lt;br /&gt;
|| guilt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nitcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| need&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| frumu&lt;br /&gt;
|| frown&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jetnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| TRUE&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| FALSE&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kanxe&lt;br /&gt;
|| conjunction&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| logji&lt;br /&gt;
|| logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| natfe&lt;br /&gt;
|| deny&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nibli&lt;br /&gt;
|| necessitate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vlina&lt;br /&gt;
|| alternation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| drani&lt;br /&gt;
|| correct&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| srera&lt;br /&gt;
|| err&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Logic&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jursa&lt;br /&gt;
|| severe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind&lt;br /&gt;
|| Context&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lifri&lt;br /&gt;
|| experience&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind&lt;br /&gt;
|| Context&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cilre&lt;br /&gt;
|| learn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ctuca&lt;br /&gt;
|| teach&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cuxna&lt;br /&gt;
|| choose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| datni&lt;br /&gt;
|| data&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
|| know&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| facki&lt;br /&gt;
|| discover&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fatci&lt;br /&gt;
|| fact&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| finti&lt;br /&gt;
|| invent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jdice&lt;br /&gt;
|| decide&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jijnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| intuit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jimpe&lt;br /&gt;
|| understand&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinvi&lt;br /&gt;
|| opine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krici&lt;br /&gt;
|| believe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanli&lt;br /&gt;
|| analyze&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| menli&lt;br /&gt;
|| mind&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| morji&lt;br /&gt;
|| remember&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nuzba&lt;br /&gt;
|| news&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pensi&lt;br /&gt;
|| think&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| platu&lt;br /&gt;
|| plan&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| senpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| doubt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| senva&lt;br /&gt;
|| dream&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sidbo&lt;br /&gt;
|| idea&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smadi&lt;br /&gt;
|| guess&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sruma&lt;br /&gt;
|| assume&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tadji&lt;br /&gt;
|| method&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tadni&lt;br /&gt;
|| study&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tugni&lt;br /&gt;
|| agree&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xanri&lt;br /&gt;
|| imaginary&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xusra&lt;br /&gt;
|| assert&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vreji&lt;br /&gt;
|| record&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sisku&lt;br /&gt;
|| seek&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cipra&lt;br /&gt;
|| test&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| clite&lt;br /&gt;
|| polite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cumla&lt;br /&gt;
|| humble&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| darsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| audacity&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jundi&lt;br /&gt;
|| attentive&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| juxre&lt;br /&gt;
|| clumsy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lazni&lt;br /&gt;
|| lazy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stace&lt;br /&gt;
|| honest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| virnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| brave&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xarnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| stubborn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xendo&lt;br /&gt;
|| kind&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bebna&lt;br /&gt;
|| foolish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait (mind)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| certu&lt;br /&gt;
|| expert&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait (mind)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prije&lt;br /&gt;
|| wise&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait (mind)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stati&lt;br /&gt;
|| talent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Personality trait (mind)&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vrusi&lt;br /&gt;
|| taste&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| catlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| look&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cortu&lt;br /&gt;
|| pain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cpina&lt;br /&gt;
|| pungent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ganse&lt;br /&gt;
|| sense&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jvinu&lt;br /&gt;
|| view&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sanji&lt;br /&gt;
|| conscious&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| simlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| seem&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sumne&lt;br /&gt;
|| smell&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tirna&lt;br /&gt;
|| hear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| viska&lt;br /&gt;
|| see&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| X-panci&lt;br /&gt;
|| odor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zgana&lt;br /&gt;
|| observe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sensation/observation&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| titla&lt;br /&gt;
|| sweet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Taste&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kukte&lt;br /&gt;
|| delicious&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Taste&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kurki&lt;br /&gt;
|| bitter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Taste&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slari&lt;br /&gt;
|| sour&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Taste&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dirba&lt;br /&gt;
|| dear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ranxi&lt;br /&gt;
|| irony&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rigni&lt;br /&gt;
|| disgusting&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bredi&lt;br /&gt;
|| ready&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Emotion&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cartu&lt;br /&gt;
|| chart&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| racli&lt;br /&gt;
|| sane&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slabu&lt;br /&gt;
|| familiar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fange&lt;br /&gt;
|| alien&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| frili&lt;br /&gt;
|| easy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nabmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| problem&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nandu&lt;br /&gt;
|| difficult&lt;br /&gt;
|| Psycho&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mind/Knowledge&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Attitude&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| draci&lt;br /&gt;
|| drama&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kelci&lt;br /&gt;
|| play&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tigni&lt;br /&gt;
|| perform&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinba&lt;br /&gt;
|| kiss&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dansu&lt;br /&gt;
|| dance&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kalte&lt;br /&gt;
|| hunt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| macnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| manual&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zmiku&lt;br /&gt;
|| automatic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Physical matter&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| balni&lt;br /&gt;
|| balcony&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|| wall&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| canko&lt;br /&gt;
|| window&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cripu&lt;br /&gt;
|| bridge&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dinju&lt;br /&gt;
|| building&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| drudi&lt;br /&gt;
|| roof&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kamju&lt;br /&gt;
|| column&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| room&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| loldi&lt;br /&gt;
|| floor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| serti&lt;br /&gt;
|| stairs&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tsina&lt;br /&gt;
|| stage&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vorme&lt;br /&gt;
|| door&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zbepi&lt;br /&gt;
|| pedestal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| architecture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| creka&lt;br /&gt;
|| shirt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cutci&lt;br /&gt;
|| shoe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| daski&lt;br /&gt;
|| pocket&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dasni&lt;br /&gt;
|| wear&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gluta&lt;br /&gt;
|| glove&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kosta&lt;br /&gt;
|| coat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lacni&lt;br /&gt;
|| eyeglasses&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mapku&lt;br /&gt;
|| cap&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| palku&lt;br /&gt;
|| pants&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pastu&lt;br /&gt;
|| robe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skaci&lt;br /&gt;
|| skirt&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smoka&lt;br /&gt;
|| sock&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| taxfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| garment&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| karli&lt;br /&gt;
|| collar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Clothes&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fuzme&lt;br /&gt;
|| responsible&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Commands &amp;amp; obedience&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lacri&lt;br /&gt;
|| rely&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Commands &amp;amp; obedience&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| minde&lt;br /&gt;
|| command&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Commands &amp;amp; obedience&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sfasa&lt;br /&gt;
|| punish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Commands &amp;amp; obedience&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tinbe&lt;br /&gt;
|| obey&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Commands &amp;amp; obedience&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmene&lt;br /&gt;
|| name&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| preti&lt;br /&gt;
|| question&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| danfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| answer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bacru&lt;br /&gt;
|| utter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| casnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| discuss&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ciksi&lt;br /&gt;
|| explain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cpedu&lt;br /&gt;
|| request&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cusku&lt;br /&gt;
|| express&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| darlu&lt;br /&gt;
|| argue&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mrilu&lt;br /&gt;
|| mail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| notci&lt;br /&gt;
|| message&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nupre&lt;br /&gt;
|| promise&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pante&lt;br /&gt;
|| protest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pikci&lt;br /&gt;
|| beg&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinka&lt;br /&gt;
|| comment&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rinsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| greet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skicu&lt;br /&gt;
|| describe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spuda&lt;br /&gt;
|| reply&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stidi&lt;br /&gt;
|| suggest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tarti&lt;br /&gt;
|| behave&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tavla&lt;br /&gt;
|| talk&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcita&lt;br /&gt;
|| label&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vitke&lt;br /&gt;
|| guest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| voksa&lt;br /&gt;
|| voice&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xatra&lt;br /&gt;
|| letter&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| talsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| challenge&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinga&lt;br /&gt;
|| win&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jivna&lt;br /&gt;
|| compete&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| friti&lt;br /&gt;
|| offer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mifra&lt;br /&gt;
|| code&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Communication&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kulnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| larcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| art&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| misno&lt;br /&gt;
|| famous&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nobli&lt;br /&gt;
|| noble&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ritli&lt;br /&gt;
|| rite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| salci&lt;br /&gt;
|| celebrate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| saske&lt;br /&gt;
|| science&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcaci&lt;br /&gt;
|| custom&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bangu&lt;br /&gt;
|| language&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bridi&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
|| structure word&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fanva&lt;br /&gt;
|| translate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gadri&lt;br /&gt;
|| article&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gerna&lt;br /&gt;
|| grammar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gismu&lt;br /&gt;
|| root word&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jufra&lt;br /&gt;
|| sentence&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lerfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| letteral&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
|| affix compound&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pandi&lt;br /&gt;
|| punctuate&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| affix&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rimni&lt;br /&gt;
|| rhyme&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slaka&lt;br /&gt;
|| syllable&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sumti&lt;br /&gt;
|| argument&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanru&lt;br /&gt;
|| phrase compound&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| valsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| word&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Language grammar&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bengo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Bengali&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bindo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Indonesian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dotco&lt;br /&gt;
|| German&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fraso&lt;br /&gt;
|| French&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| glico&lt;br /&gt;
|| English&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jungo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chinese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| latmo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Latin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Lojbanic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| meljo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Malaysian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ponjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Japanese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| porto&lt;br /&gt;
|| Portuguese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rusko&lt;br /&gt;
|| Russian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spano&lt;br /&gt;
|| Spanish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| srito&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sanskrit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vukro&lt;br /&gt;
|| Ukrainian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xebro&lt;br /&gt;
|| Hebrew&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xelso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Greek&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xindo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Hindi&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xrabo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Arabic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xurdo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Urdu&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Languages&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| baxso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Malay-Indonesian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bindo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Indonesian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brazo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Brazilian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brito&lt;br /&gt;
|| British&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dotco&lt;br /&gt;
|| German&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| filso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Palestinian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fraso&lt;br /&gt;
|| French&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gento&lt;br /&gt;
|| Argentinian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jerxo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Algerian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jordo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Jordanian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jungo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chinese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kadno&lt;br /&gt;
|| Canadian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kisto&lt;br /&gt;
|| Pakistani&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| libjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Libyan&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lubno&lt;br /&gt;
|| Lebanese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| meljo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Malaysian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| merko&lt;br /&gt;
|| American&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mexno&lt;br /&gt;
|| Mexican&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| misro&lt;br /&gt;
|| Egyptian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| morko&lt;br /&gt;
|| Moroccan&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| norgo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Norwegian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nuzlo&lt;br /&gt;
|| New Zelandish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| polno&lt;br /&gt;
|| Polynesian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ponjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Japanese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| porto&lt;br /&gt;
|| Portuguese&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rakso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Iraqi&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rusko&lt;br /&gt;
|| Russian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sadjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Saudi&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| semto&lt;br /&gt;
|| Semitic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sesre&lt;br /&gt;
|| Soviet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sirxo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Syrian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skoto&lt;br /&gt;
|| Scottish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| slovo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Slavic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| softo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Soviet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spano&lt;br /&gt;
|| Spanish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sralo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Australian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| turko&lt;br /&gt;
|| Turkish&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vukro&lt;br /&gt;
|| Ukrainian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xelso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Greek&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xispo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Hispanic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Nationalities&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cevni&lt;br /&gt;
|| god&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Fate&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| budjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Buddhist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| censa&lt;br /&gt;
|| holy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| crida&lt;br /&gt;
|| fairy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dadjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Taoist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jegvo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Jehovist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lijda&lt;br /&gt;
|| religion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| makfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| magic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| malsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| temple&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| muslo&lt;br /&gt;
|| Islamic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pruxi&lt;br /&gt;
|| spirit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ranmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| myth&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xriso&lt;br /&gt;
|| Christian&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Culture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Religion&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| matci&lt;br /&gt;
|| mat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| murta&lt;br /&gt;
|| curtain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
|| Shapes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckana&lt;br /&gt;
|| bed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jubme&lt;br /&gt;
|| table&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kajna&lt;br /&gt;
|| shelf&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kicne&lt;br /&gt;
|| cushion&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nilce&lt;br /&gt;
|| furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sfofa&lt;br /&gt;
|| sofa&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| stizu&lt;br /&gt;
|| chair&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Furniture&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| turni&lt;br /&gt;
|| govern&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zekri&lt;br /&gt;
|| crime&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| catni&lt;br /&gt;
|| authority&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| flalu&lt;br /&gt;
|| law&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jansu&lt;br /&gt;
|| diplomat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krali&lt;br /&gt;
|| right (entitlement)&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pajni&lt;br /&gt;
|| judge&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pulji&lt;br /&gt;
|| police&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tutra&lt;br /&gt;
|| territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfika&lt;br /&gt;
|| fiction&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ciska&lt;br /&gt;
|| write&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cukta&lt;br /&gt;
|| book&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| karni&lt;br /&gt;
|| journal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kibro&lt;br /&gt;
|| cyberspace&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lisri&lt;br /&gt;
|| story&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| papri&lt;br /&gt;
|| page&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pemci&lt;br /&gt;
|| poem&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prosa&lt;br /&gt;
|| prose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcidu&lt;br /&gt;
|| read&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Literature &amp;amp; writing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xaksu&lt;br /&gt;
|| use up&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cupra&lt;br /&gt;
|| produce&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| festi&lt;br /&gt;
|| waste&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Event contours&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fanri&lt;br /&gt;
|| factory&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gundi&lt;br /&gt;
|| industry&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| molki&lt;br /&gt;
|| mill&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rutni&lt;br /&gt;
|| artifact&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zbasu&lt;br /&gt;
|| make&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manufacturing&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kagni&lt;br /&gt;
|| company&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cuntu&lt;br /&gt;
|| affair&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Actions&lt;br /&gt;
|| Volitional actions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pindi&lt;br /&gt;
|| poor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ricfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| rich&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| banxa&lt;br /&gt;
|| bank&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| canja&lt;br /&gt;
|| exchange&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cteki&lt;br /&gt;
|| tax&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fepni&lt;br /&gt;
|| cent&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| janta&lt;br /&gt;
|| account&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jdima&lt;br /&gt;
|| price&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jdini&lt;br /&gt;
|| money&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jikni&lt;br /&gt;
|| economic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kargu&lt;br /&gt;
|| costly&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pleji&lt;br /&gt;
|| pay&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| prali&lt;br /&gt;
|| profit&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rupnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| dollar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sicni&lt;br /&gt;
|| coin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vamji&lt;br /&gt;
|| value&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vecnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| sell&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
|| market&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zivle&lt;br /&gt;
|| invest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Money, trade etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| marde&lt;br /&gt;
|| morals&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Morality&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| palci&lt;br /&gt;
|| evil&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Morality&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vrude&lt;br /&gt;
|| virtue&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Morality&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
|| good&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Morality&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xlali&lt;br /&gt;
|| bad&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Morality&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cladu&lt;br /&gt;
|| loud&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| rilti&lt;br /&gt;
|| rhythm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sance&lt;br /&gt;
|| sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sanga&lt;br /&gt;
|| sing&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| savru&lt;br /&gt;
|| noise&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| siclu&lt;br /&gt;
|| whistle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smaji&lt;br /&gt;
|| quiet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tonga&lt;br /&gt;
|| tone&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zgike&lt;br /&gt;
|| music&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Music/sound&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| damri&lt;br /&gt;
|| drum&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| flani&lt;br /&gt;
|| flute&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| janbe&lt;br /&gt;
|| bell&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jgita&lt;br /&gt;
|| guitar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pipno&lt;br /&gt;
|| piano&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tabra&lt;br /&gt;
|| trumpet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xagri&lt;br /&gt;
|| reed&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Musical instrument&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cmoni&lt;br /&gt;
|| moan&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| non-linguistic utterance&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| krixa&lt;br /&gt;
|| cry out&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| non-linguistic utterance&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tcadu&lt;br /&gt;
|| city&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Political divisions&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Government, law &amp;amp; territory&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gugde&lt;br /&gt;
|| country&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Political divisions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jarbu&lt;br /&gt;
|| suburb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Political divisions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jecta&lt;br /&gt;
|| polity&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Political divisions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| natmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| nation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Political divisions&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dargu&lt;br /&gt;
|| road&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Roads &amp;amp; pathways&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klaji&lt;br /&gt;
|| street&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Roads &amp;amp; pathways&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| naxle&lt;br /&gt;
|| canal&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Roads &amp;amp; pathways&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pluta&lt;br /&gt;
|| route&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Roads &amp;amp; pathways&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jikca&lt;br /&gt;
|| socialize&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Society&lt;br /&gt;
|| interaction&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pendo&lt;br /&gt;
|| friend&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Society&lt;br /&gt;
|| interaction&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| penmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| meet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Society&lt;br /&gt;
|| interaction&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| speni&lt;br /&gt;
|| married&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Society&lt;br /&gt;
|| interaction&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| barja&lt;br /&gt;
|| bar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckule&lt;br /&gt;
|| school&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gusta&lt;br /&gt;
|| restaurant&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| muzga&lt;br /&gt;
|| museum&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| spita&lt;br /&gt;
|| hospital&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xabju&lt;br /&gt;
|| dwell&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xotli&lt;br /&gt;
|| hotel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zdani&lt;br /&gt;
|| nest&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Specific types of buildings&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skiji&lt;br /&gt;
|| ski&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sports&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| zajba&lt;br /&gt;
|| gymnast&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Sports&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cecla&lt;br /&gt;
|| launcher&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cradi&lt;br /&gt;
|| radio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| danti&lt;br /&gt;
|| projectile&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dikca&lt;br /&gt;
|| electric&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fonxa&lt;br /&gt;
|| telephone&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jbama&lt;br /&gt;
|| bomb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kacma&lt;br /&gt;
|| camera&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| matra&lt;br /&gt;
|| motor&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| minji&lt;br /&gt;
|| machine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skami&lt;br /&gt;
|| computer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| skina&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinema&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tivni&lt;br /&gt;
|| television&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| toknu&lt;br /&gt;
|| oven&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vidni&lt;br /&gt;
|| video&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Technology&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jaspu&lt;br /&gt;
|| passport&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pikta&lt;br /&gt;
|| ticket&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
|| Manifestation&lt;br /&gt;
|| Links&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| burcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| brush&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| komcu&lt;br /&gt;
|| comb&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pijne&lt;br /&gt;
|| pin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| balre&lt;br /&gt;
|| blade&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| batke&lt;br /&gt;
|| button&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cabra&lt;br /&gt;
|| apparatus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| canpa&lt;br /&gt;
|| shovel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cfine&lt;br /&gt;
|| wedge&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cinza&lt;br /&gt;
|| tongs&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ckiku&lt;br /&gt;
|| key&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dakfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| knife&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| dinko&lt;br /&gt;
|| nail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| falnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| sail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| forca&lt;br /&gt;
|| fork&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| garna&lt;br /&gt;
|| rail&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jendu&lt;br /&gt;
|| axle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jinci&lt;br /&gt;
|| shears&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| julne&lt;br /&gt;
|| net&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| junla&lt;br /&gt;
|| clock&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| klupe&lt;br /&gt;
|| screw&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lenjo&lt;br /&gt;
|| lens&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| linsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| chain&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mruli&lt;br /&gt;
|| hammer&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pambe&lt;br /&gt;
|| pump&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| penbi&lt;br /&gt;
|| pen&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinsi&lt;br /&gt;
|| pencil&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pulni&lt;br /&gt;
|| pulley&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sacki&lt;br /&gt;
|| match&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| salpo&lt;br /&gt;
|| slope&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| santa&lt;br /&gt;
|| umbrella&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| smuci&lt;br /&gt;
|| spoon&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tutci&lt;br /&gt;
|| tool&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vraga&lt;br /&gt;
|| lever&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xislu&lt;br /&gt;
|| wheel&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Tools&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| basfa&lt;br /&gt;
|| omnibus&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bloti&lt;br /&gt;
|| boat&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| carce&lt;br /&gt;
|| cart&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jakne&lt;br /&gt;
|| rocket&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| karce&lt;br /&gt;
|| car&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| marce&lt;br /&gt;
|| vehicle&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sabnu&lt;br /&gt;
|| cabin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| trene&lt;br /&gt;
|| train&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| vinji&lt;br /&gt;
|| airplane&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Vehicles&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bilni&lt;br /&gt;
|| military&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| bradi&lt;br /&gt;
|| enemy&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| damba&lt;br /&gt;
|| fight&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| fapro&lt;br /&gt;
|| oppose&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jamna&lt;br /&gt;
|| war&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jenmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| army&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| panpi&lt;br /&gt;
|| peace&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sonci&lt;br /&gt;
|| soldier&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| xarci&lt;br /&gt;
|| weapon&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| War&lt;br /&gt;
|| conflict&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| briju&lt;br /&gt;
|| office&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Work&lt;br /&gt;
|| employment&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| gunka&lt;br /&gt;
|| work&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Work&lt;br /&gt;
|| employment&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jerna&lt;br /&gt;
|| earn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Work&lt;br /&gt;
|| employment&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jibri&lt;br /&gt;
|| job&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio&lt;br /&gt;
|| Work&lt;br /&gt;
|| employment&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lanci&lt;br /&gt;
|| flag&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio Government law territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| nurma&lt;br /&gt;
|| rural&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio Government law territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pinfu&lt;br /&gt;
|| prisoner&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio Government law territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ginka&lt;br /&gt;
|| camp&lt;br /&gt;
|| Socio Government law territory&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| broda&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate var 1&lt;br /&gt;
|| Special&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brode&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate var 2&lt;br /&gt;
|| Special&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brodi&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate var 3&lt;br /&gt;
|| Special&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brodo&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate var 4&lt;br /&gt;
|| Special&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| brodu&lt;br /&gt;
|| predicate var 5&lt;br /&gt;
|| Special&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| preti cusku&lt;br /&gt;
|| ask (question)&lt;br /&gt;
|| tanru&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kensa&lt;br /&gt;
|| outer space&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lunra&lt;br /&gt;
|| lunar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mluni&lt;br /&gt;
|| satellite&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| plini&lt;br /&gt;
|| planet&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| solri&lt;br /&gt;
|| solar&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tarci&lt;br /&gt;
|| star&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| terdi&lt;br /&gt;
|| earth&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tsani&lt;br /&gt;
|| sky&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Astronomy&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cidro&lt;br /&gt;
|| hydrogen&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chemical elements&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cnisa&lt;br /&gt;
|| lead&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chemical elements&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jilka&lt;br /&gt;
|| alkali&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chemical elements&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kijno&lt;br /&gt;
|| oxygen&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chemical elements&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kliru&lt;br /&gt;
|| chlorine&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Chemical elements&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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|| mineral&lt;br /&gt;
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|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| sudga&lt;br /&gt;
|| dry&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| ranti&lt;br /&gt;
|| soft&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| tinsa&lt;br /&gt;
|| stiff&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| viknu&lt;br /&gt;
|| viscous&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
|| moist&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| denmi&lt;br /&gt;
|| dense&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jdari&lt;br /&gt;
|| firm&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| pruni&lt;br /&gt;
|| elastic&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| trati&lt;br /&gt;
|| taut&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Properties&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| glare&lt;br /&gt;
|| hot&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Temperature&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| kelvo&lt;br /&gt;
|| kelvin&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Temperature&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| lenku&lt;br /&gt;
|| cold&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Temperature&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| mucti&lt;br /&gt;
|| immaterial&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| General&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|| jelca&lt;br /&gt;
|| burn&lt;br /&gt;
|| Universe&lt;br /&gt;
|| Materials &amp;amp; substances&lt;br /&gt;
|| &lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
||&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban_For_Beginners,_The_Book&amp;diff=124101</id>
		<title>Lojban For Beginners, The Book</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban_For_Beginners,_The_Book&amp;diff=124101"/>
		<updated>2020-09-03T03:22:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;A textbook written by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] and [[Robin Turner|Robin Turner]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Teaches Standard Lojban also described in [[CLL]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A book published in 2002 by Robin Turner and Nick Nicholas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Download:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#[http://www.opoudjis.net/lojbanbrochure/ from Nick Nicholas&#039; website]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[:File:Turner,Robin,Nicholas,Nick - Lojban for Beginners (2002).pdf|pdf file]]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[:File:Turner,Robin,Nicholas,Nick - Lojban for Beginners (2002).epub|epub file]] (convertible to Kindle format using [http://calibre-ebook.com/ Calibre])&lt;br /&gt;
#[http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/learn-the-lojban/469d97b3-344c-4fed-afac-8419c6136f8c a Windows Phone/Windows 8 app]&lt;br /&gt;
==Content==&lt;br /&gt;
There are fifteen lessons involved, intended to cover enough of the basics of Lojban that one can read most Lojban one is likely to encounter orally or on-line.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The lessons are basically complete, and have been reviewed extensively; things remaining to be done include:&lt;br /&gt;
#(Possibly) inserting reading material for the later lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
#Introduce IPA [[Pronunciation|pronunciation guides]] in a note to Chapter 1, and &#039;major language&#039; alternatives in the pronunciation guide proper now. Scott Weller has proposed the 6 languages of the gismu etymologies (this has already been done for the [[Level 0 Booklet|Level 0 Booklet]], as requested by Olivier Nisole).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Lessons Errata]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==License==&lt;br /&gt;
http://creativecommons.org/images/public/somerights20.png&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The textbook is licensed under a [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 License].&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban_For_Beginners,_The_Book&amp;diff=124100</id>
		<title>Lojban For Beginners, The Book</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban_For_Beginners,_The_Book&amp;diff=124100"/>
		<updated>2020-09-03T03:00:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;A textbook written by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] and [[Robin Turner|Robin Turner]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Teaches Standard Lojban also described in [[CLL]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A book published in 2002 by Robin Turner and Nick Nicholas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Download:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#[[http://www.opoudjis.net/lojbanbrochure/|On Nick Nicholas&#039; website]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#[[:File:Turner,Robin,Nicholas,Nick - Lojban for Beginners (2002).pdf|pdf file]]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[:File:Turner,Robin,Nicholas,Nick - Lojban for Beginners (2002).epub|epub file]] (convertible to Kindle format using [http://calibre-ebook.com/ Calibre])&lt;br /&gt;
#[http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/learn-the-lojban/469d97b3-344c-4fed-afac-8419c6136f8c a Windows Phone/Windows 8 app]&lt;br /&gt;
==Content==&lt;br /&gt;
There are fifteen lessons involved, intended to cover enough of the basics of Lojban that one can read most Lojban one is likely to encounter orally or on-line.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The lessons are basically complete, and have been reviewed extensively; things remaining to be done include:&lt;br /&gt;
#(Possibly) inserting reading material for the later lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
#Introduce IPA [[Pronunciation|pronunciation guides]] in a note to Chapter 1, and &#039;major language&#039; alternatives in the pronunciation guide proper now. Scott Weller has proposed the 6 languages of the gismu etymologies (this has already been done for the [[Level 0 Booklet|Level 0 Booklet]], as requested by Olivier Nisole).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Lessons Errata]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==License==&lt;br /&gt;
http://creativecommons.org/images/public/somerights20.png&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The textbook is licensed under a [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 License].&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojbanic_Software&amp;diff=124098</id>
		<title>Lojbanic Software</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojbanic_Software&amp;diff=124098"/>
		<updated>2020-08-23T15:46:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;__NOTOC__&lt;br /&gt;
Runs on: [[File:828.sip|link=]] - Android, [[File:804.sip|link=]] - iPhone, [[File:831.sip|link=]] - Linux, [[File:830.sip|link=]] - Mac, [[File:829.sip|link=]] - Windows, [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] - in browser or universally.&lt;br /&gt;
== Learning Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Sounds of Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf A tiny application] by [[Matt Arnold]] showing how Lojbanic letters sound&lt;br /&gt;
=== Flashcard Programs ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]]  Memrise - [http://memrise.com/ Memrise] (main page). [[MemriseConventions]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [[File:804.sip|link=]] [http://ichi2.net/anki/index.html Anki] is a free and open source program for &amp;quot;spaced repetition&amp;quot;, an effective learning technique. It has a built in system for sharing &amp;quot;decks&amp;quot; where you can get Lojban word lists for training: File / Download / Shared Deck, search for &amp;quot;lojban&amp;quot;. If this fails for some reason, you can also download and open the deck manually:&lt;br /&gt;
** from https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
** or from this wiki: [[gismu-frequency.anki|for lo gismu (core verbs]], [[Lojban - cmavo.anki|for lo cmavo (particles)]]), [[lojban-namcu-cmavo.anki|for basic numbers]].  Anki also has a [https://ankiweb.net/ web-interface] that can be synchronized with a local deck.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://quizlet.com/ Quizlet], an online flashcard app. Register and join the Lojban group; downloadable from Quizard on iPod/iPhone and from Kaka Flashcards on Android devices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Dictionaries ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [https://lojban.herokuapp.com/ Lai sutysisku] and [[La Muplis]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://vlasisku.lojban.org/ vlasisku] is an easy-to-use online Lojban &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; English dictionary. It is a convenient way to browse and search the definitions from the jbovlaste database.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] The official Lojban live dictionary project [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ jbovlaste] contains complete or near-complete dictionaries for Russian, Spanish, Esperanto, and English, and the Lojban-in-Lojban dictionary is progressing rapidly. &lt;br /&gt;
:*As provisional measures against a bug of jbovlaste, Kepeken created [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/xKynF3TbDL8/b4KnLJjYCQAJ a bookmarklet for taking back non-ASCII search results on jbovlaste].&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] A [[GoldenDict]] distribution for Lojban has numerous dictionaries suitable for everyone. The best offline choice.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [http://fricukt.tiddlyspot.com/ fricukt] supports any operating system where Chrome, Firefox, Opera or Safari browser can run on. The list of supported devices includes iPads, most Android devices and Chromebooks. Download the app (which is in fact just a sophisticated web-page) using corresponding link there or use it online. Touchscreen-friendly. Also contains some useful tables of cmavo etc.    &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:828.sip|link=]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iocikun.juj.lojban.dictionary lojban dictionary] [https://apkpure.com/lojban-dictionary/iocikun.juj.lojban.dictionary (backup)] | An android app by Yoshikuni Jujo for quick word lookup.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/stardict.html lojban dictionaries in Stardict format] created from [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/export/xml.html xml dumps of jbovlaste]. Several languages are available. View them with [http://goldendict.org/ GoldenDict], [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/taptionary/id590381520?mt=8 Taptionary], [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dictionary-universal/id312088272?mt=8 Dictionary Universal] and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/vlaste.html lojban dictionary for Kindle] in mobi format created from [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/export/xml.html xml dumps of jbovlaste]. Mainly in Japanese.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://iuk.hateblo.jp/entry/2016/12/18/010000 ZpDIC for ponjo jbopre] (explained in Japanese). Lojban dictionary for ZpDIC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Keyboards ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[File:828.sip]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.inputmethod.latin&amp;amp;hl=en Google&#039;s Gboard keyboard for Android] has Lojban added to its list of available keyboards. Install it and check your &amp;quot;Language &amp;amp; input&amp;quot; settings in order to download the language pack.&lt;br /&gt;
** [[File:828.sip]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.klye.ime.latin Multiling Keyboard] Multiling keyboard is an extremely customizable multilingual keyboard for Android which features a lojban plugin for text prediction. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=klye.plugin.lj|Lojban Plugin]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Lojban keyboard for Mac|A Lojbanic Dvorak Keyboard Layout]] (with ‘ and h swapped) for Macbook Pro&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Glossers ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/glosser/glosser.htm Glosser] as a part of [[la ilmentufa]] project&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lujvo analysers ==&lt;br /&gt;
:* [http://jwodder.freeshell.org/lojban/jvozba.cgi?lujvo= jvozba] created by kamymecraijun&lt;br /&gt;
:* [https://sozysozbot.github.io/sozysozbot_jvozba/sozysozbot_jvozba.html jvozba] Implementation of jvozba in JavaScript; created by sozysozbot&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Syntactic Parsers ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Based on the official grammar ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes.html ilmentufa (official grammar)] - [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]&#039;s parser using [http://mhagiwara.github.io/camxes.js/ Masato Hagiwara&#039;s camxes.js]. &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] The [[Official Parser|Official Parser]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [https://github.com/baban/genturfahi la baban&#039;s Frontend of Official Parser]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] (Java) [[camxes|camxes]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]]  [http://www.lojban.org/jboski www.lojban.org/jboski] - A web-based version of of [[Richard Curnow|Richard Curnow]]&#039;s [[jbofihe|jbofihe]]; acts as a Lojban to English translator.  Made by [[Raphal Poss|Raphal Poss]].&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenCog&#039;s parser]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Based on experimental grammars ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [[zantufa]]: &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; parsers based on experimental grammars with clear versioning (suitable for use of [[jo&#039;au]]), with many variations for various existing Lojban texts conforming to a previous official grammar (with [[BPFK Section: Ban on consonant-glide-vowel strings|CgV]]) like &#039;&#039;[[la .teris. po&#039;u lo tirxu cu vitke zi&#039;o le barda tcadu]]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html maltufa]), as well as those conforming to unofficial grammars like &#039;&#039;[[la .teris. ku noi tigra cu stuvi&#039;e lo barda tcadu]]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.1.html zantufa]), &#039;&#039;[http://selpahi.de/oz.html lo se mànci te màkfa pe la .oz.]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [[maftufa]]), &#039;&#039;[http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html ka càtra lo vèrba]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.1-cekitaujoibu.html zantufa cekitaujoibus]), etc.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://skami2.iocikun.jp/lojban/zasniGerna iocixes (dead link)]: Created by la.iocikun. based on [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/zasni+gerna zasni gerna] with [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/MEX+grammar+proposal MEX grammar proposal] of la xorxes. ([https://skami2.iocikun.jp/lojban/zasniGernaPeg zasni gerna peg (dead link)])&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html ilmentufa (experimental grammar)]: [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]&#039;s parser modified by some people with plenty of experimental propositions. ([http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.js.peg ilmentufa&#039;s peg])&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/glosser/glosser.htm Another frontend of ilmentufa]: Created by la.uilym. based on [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html ilmentufa]. It is not necessarily based on the latest version of [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.js.peg ilmentufa&#039;s peg].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Semantic Parsers ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [[la tersmu]] by Martin Bays. It translates lojban text to a predicate logic.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cakyrespa la cakyrespa] by Yoshikuni Jujo. Run turtle like LOGO with lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lojysamban la lojysamban] by Yoshikuni Jujo. Prolog with lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Word lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/lojban-ispell-hashfile.html ispell data files] - Data files to allow Lojban spell checking with ispell&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.tomeraider.com Tomeraider] files containing the [[gismu|gismu]] list (English and Lojban ordering), the [[cmavo|cmavo]] list ([[cmavo|cmavo]] and [[selma&#039;o|selma&#039;o]] ordering), the [[rafsi|rafsi]] list and the [[BNF|BNF]] grammar, for [http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/dist/lojban.tr.zip PC] and [http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/dist/lojban.pdb.zip Palm Pilot]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[A simple perl script for grepping the word lists with colorized output|A simple perl script for grepping the word lists with colorized output]] by [[Jordan DeLong|Jordan DeLong]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://skami.iocikun.jp/lojban/valsi_tables.html|gismu list and cmavo list in each language available on the jbovlaste including experimental words and cmavo clusters] created by Yoshikuni Jujo from the jbovlaste database.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/ircbot/dumps/ PDFs and viewable in browser XML latest versions of dictionaries]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Games ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.rickadams.org/adventure/ Colossal Cave]. First, the text of this game was translated by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] in 1991. [[User:Robin Lee Powell|Robin Lee Powell]] has heroically translated that translation into a working game - see [[Colossal Cave|Colossal Cave]] for that, and also for the Inform Localisation files needed to create your own Lojbanic IF. &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.colourbind.com/ Colour Bind] is a physics platform-puzzler set in an abstract world where gravity is determined not by mass, but by colour. It features a full Lojban translation by Lindar. The game is available on [http://store.steampowered.com/app/208710/ Steam].&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.minecraft.net/ Minecraft] is a creative exploration game where you pick and place blocks to build worlds. A large group of contributors have created a community translation of Minecraft, which is included in Minecraft 1.9+. Unfortunately, it needs further translation on [http://crowdin.net/project/minecraft Minecraft&#039;s public translation website] in order for it to be complete.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.voxelands.com/ Voxelands] is yet another creative exploration game and comes with an official translation, although it might not be perfect yet. Everyone is welcome to improve it on [https://www.transifex.com/voxelands/voxelands/language/jbo/].&lt;br /&gt;
* [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=http://blankmediagames.com/TownOfSalem/]] [[File:828.sip|link=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blankmediagames.townofsalemthecoven]] [http://blankmediagames.com/TownOfSalem/ Town of Salem] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash_Player#Desktop_platforms Flash]) is an online version of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game) Mafia] party game; itself is only available in English and in Turkish. However, private party groups can be formed in order to communicate in the language players have agreed upon. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blankmediagames.townofsalem The Android version] is currently only available for tablets. Town of Salem related stuff is being translated in [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mlbf9nHkG5TtEZs1tl5aRVQoukvnD8CXAImwraFxxq4/edit?usp=sharing this public Google Spreadsheet] and occasionally check out [https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban/search/?query=mafia the Lojban Facebook group] for any proposed private games.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Editing ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] A [http://mbays.freeshell.org/lojban.vim vim filetype plugin] for convenient word-list lookup, auto-lujvoification, and other useful things.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LojbanMode Lojban-mode] syntax highlighting and other support code for emacs&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [http://gitorious.org/jbotci jbofacki] [https://archive.softwareheritage.org/browse/origin/directory/?origin_url=https://gitorious.org/jbotci/jbotci.git (backup)] is a jbofihe/camxes CLI shell with Tab-completion of valsi and rafsi, colorized word lookups by literal name or string, etc. Intended for increased fun in exploring the construction of Lojban texts/sentences; also useful as a aid to memory (mi&#039;e la kampu). Requires Python 2.5+, and currently also [http://github.com/dag/makfa-cli makfa-cli] for generation + update of dictionary data.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine translation ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://lojban.lilyx.net/zmifanva/ zmifanva] created by [http://masatohagiwara.net/ Masato Hagiwara], Lojban ↔ English Machine Translation Engine  based on phrase-based statistical machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
** [https://github.com/youxkei/lojbo-tuhitsku lojbo-tuhitsku] created by youxkei. It obtains tweets, translates them into Lojban and tweets them. It calls Microsoft Translator for translation from Japanese to English, and zmifanva for English to Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014107847567658722055%3A3enx_7t3upo Google custom search engine for Lojban resources]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[morphology: analysis programs comparison|Morphology analysis programs comparison]]&lt;br /&gt;
Other software can be seen on the [[Talk:Lojbanic Software|talk page]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:vlaste saske]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojbanic_Software&amp;diff=124097</id>
		<title>Lojbanic Software</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojbanic_Software&amp;diff=124097"/>
		<updated>2020-08-23T15:29:53Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;__NOTOC__&lt;br /&gt;
Runs on: [[File:828.sip|link=]] - Android, [[File:804.sip|link=]] - iPhone, [[File:831.sip|link=]] - Linux, [[File:830.sip|link=]] - Mac, [[File:829.sip|link=]] - Windows, [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] - in browser or universally.&lt;br /&gt;
== Learning Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Sounds of Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf A tiny application] by [[Matt Arnold]] showing how Lojbanic letters sound&lt;br /&gt;
=== Flashcard Programs ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]]  Memrise - [http://memrise.com/ Memrise] (main page). [[MemriseConventions]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [[File:804.sip|link=]] [http://ichi2.net/anki/index.html Anki] is a free and open source program for &amp;quot;spaced repetition&amp;quot;, an effective learning technique. It has a built in system for sharing &amp;quot;decks&amp;quot; where you can get Lojban word lists for training: File / Download / Shared Deck, search for &amp;quot;lojban&amp;quot;. If this fails for some reason, you can also download and open the deck manually:&lt;br /&gt;
** from https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
** or from this wiki: [[gismu-frequency.anki|for lo gismu (core verbs]], [[Lojban - cmavo.anki|for lo cmavo (particles)]]), [[lojban-namcu-cmavo.anki|for basic numbers]].  Anki also has a [https://ankiweb.net/ web-interface] that can be synchronized with a local deck.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://quizlet.com/ Quizlet], an online flashcard app. Register and join the Lojban group; downloadable from Quizard on iPod/iPhone and from Kaka Flashcards on Android devices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Dictionaries ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [https://lojban.herokuapp.com/ Lai sutysisku] and [[La Muplis]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://vlasisku.lojban.org/ vlasisku] is an easy-to-use online Lojban &amp;lt;-&amp;gt; English dictionary. It is a convenient way to browse and search the definitions from the jbovlaste database.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] The official Lojban live dictionary project [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ jbovlaste] contains complete or near-complete dictionaries for Russian, Spanish, Esperanto, and English, and the Lojban-in-Lojban dictionary is progressing rapidly. &lt;br /&gt;
:*As provisional measures against a bug of jbovlaste, Kepeken created [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/xKynF3TbDL8/b4KnLJjYCQAJ a bookmarklet for taking back non-ASCII search results on jbovlaste].&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] A [[GoldenDict]] distribution for Lojban has numerous dictionaries suitable for everyone. The best offline choice.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [http://fricukt.tiddlyspot.com/ fricukt] supports any operating system where Chrome, Firefox, Opera or Safari browser can run on. The list of supported devices includes iPads, most Android devices and Chromebooks. Download the app (which is in fact just a sophisticated web-page) using corresponding link there or use it online. Touchscreen-friendly. Also contains some useful tables of cmavo etc.    &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:828.sip|link=]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iocikun.juj.lojban.dictionary lojban dictionary]| An android app by Yoshikuni Jujo for quick word lookup.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:828.sip|link=]] [http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/stardict.html lojban dictionaries in Stardict format] created from [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/export/xml.html xml dumps of jbovlaste]. Several languages are available. View them with [http://goldendict.org/ GoldenDict], [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/taptionary/id590381520?mt=8 Taptionary], [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dictionary-universal/id312088272?mt=8 Dictionary Universal] and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/vlaste.html lojban dictionary for Kindle] in mobi format created from [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/export/xml.html xml dumps of jbovlaste]. Mainly in Japanese.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://iuk.hateblo.jp/entry/2016/12/18/010000 ZpDIC for ponjo jbopre] (explained in Japanese). Lojban dictionary for ZpDIC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Keyboards ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[File:828.sip]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.inputmethod.latin&amp;amp;hl=en Google&#039;s Gboard keyboard for Android] has Lojban added to its list of available keyboards. Install it and check your &amp;quot;Language &amp;amp; input&amp;quot; settings in order to download the language pack.&lt;br /&gt;
** [[File:828.sip]] [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.klye.ime.latin Multiling Keyboard] Multiling keyboard is an extremely customizable multilingual keyboard for Android which features a lojban plugin for text prediction. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=klye.plugin.lj|Lojban Plugin]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Lojban keyboard for Mac|A Lojbanic Dvorak Keyboard Layout]] (with ‘ and h swapped) for Macbook Pro&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Glossers ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/glosser/glosser.htm Glosser] as a part of [[la ilmentufa]] project&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lujvo analysers ==&lt;br /&gt;
:* [http://jwodder.freeshell.org/lojban/jvozba.cgi?lujvo= jvozba] created by kamymecraijun&lt;br /&gt;
:* [https://sozysozbot.github.io/sozysozbot_jvozba/sozysozbot_jvozba.html jvozba] Implementation of jvozba in JavaScript; created by sozysozbot&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Syntactic Parsers ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Based on the official grammar ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes.html ilmentufa (official grammar)] - [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]&#039;s parser using [http://mhagiwara.github.io/camxes.js/ Masato Hagiwara&#039;s camxes.js]. &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] The [[Official Parser|Official Parser]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [https://github.com/baban/genturfahi la baban&#039;s Frontend of Official Parser]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] (Java) [[camxes|camxes]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]]  [http://www.lojban.org/jboski www.lojban.org/jboski] - A web-based version of of [[Richard Curnow|Richard Curnow]]&#039;s [[jbofihe|jbofihe]]; acts as a Lojban to English translator.  Made by [[Raphal Poss|Raphal Poss]].&lt;br /&gt;
* [[OpenCog&#039;s parser]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Based on experimental grammars ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [[zantufa]]: &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; parsers based on experimental grammars with clear versioning (suitable for use of [[jo&#039;au]]), with many variations for various existing Lojban texts conforming to a previous official grammar (with [[BPFK Section: Ban on consonant-glide-vowel strings|CgV]]) like &#039;&#039;[[la .teris. po&#039;u lo tirxu cu vitke zi&#039;o le barda tcadu]]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html maltufa]), as well as those conforming to unofficial grammars like &#039;&#039;[[la .teris. ku noi tigra cu stuvi&#039;e lo barda tcadu]]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.1.html zantufa]), &#039;&#039;[http://selpahi.de/oz.html lo se mànci te màkfa pe la .oz.]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [[maftufa]]), &#039;&#039;[http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html ka càtra lo vèrba]&#039;&#039; (suitable parser variation: [http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.1-cekitaujoibu.html zantufa cekitaujoibus]), etc.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://skami2.iocikun.jp/lojban/zasniGerna iocixes (dead link)]: Created by la.iocikun. based on [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/zasni+gerna zasni gerna] with [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/MEX+grammar+proposal MEX grammar proposal] of la xorxes. ([https://skami2.iocikun.jp/lojban/zasniGernaPeg zasni gerna peg (dead link)])&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html ilmentufa (experimental grammar)]: [[User:Ilmen|Ilmen]]&#039;s parser modified by some people with plenty of experimental propositions. ([http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.js.peg ilmentufa&#039;s peg])&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (JavaScript) [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/glosser/glosser.htm Another frontend of ilmentufa]: Created by la.uilym. based on [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html ilmentufa]. It is not necessarily based on the latest version of [http://lojban.github.io/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.js.peg ilmentufa&#039;s peg].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Semantic Parsers ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [[la tersmu]] by Martin Bays. It translates lojban text to a predicate logic.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cakyrespa la cakyrespa] by Yoshikuni Jujo. Run turtle like LOGO with lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] (Haskell) [https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lojysamban la lojysamban] by Yoshikuni Jujo. Prolog with lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Word lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/lojban-ispell-hashfile.html ispell data files] - Data files to allow Lojban spell checking with ispell&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.tomeraider.com Tomeraider] files containing the [[gismu|gismu]] list (English and Lojban ordering), the [[cmavo|cmavo]] list ([[cmavo|cmavo]] and [[selma&#039;o|selma&#039;o]] ordering), the [[rafsi|rafsi]] list and the [[BNF|BNF]] grammar, for [http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/dist/lojban.tr.zip PC] and [http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/dist/lojban.pdb.zip Palm Pilot]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[A simple perl script for grepping the word lists with colorized output|A simple perl script for grepping the word lists with colorized output]] by [[Jordan DeLong|Jordan DeLong]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [https://skami.iocikun.jp/lojban/valsi_tables.html|gismu list and cmavo list in each language available on the jbovlaste including experimental words and cmavo clusters] created by Yoshikuni Jujo from the jbovlaste database.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/ircbot/dumps/ PDFs and viewable in browser XML latest versions of dictionaries]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Games ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.rickadams.org/adventure/ Colossal Cave]. First, the text of this game was translated by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] in 1991. [[User:Robin Lee Powell|Robin Lee Powell]] has heroically translated that translation into a working game - see [[Colossal Cave|Colossal Cave]] for that, and also for the Inform Localisation files needed to create your own Lojbanic IF. &lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.colourbind.com/ Colour Bind] is a physics platform-puzzler set in an abstract world where gravity is determined not by mass, but by colour. It features a full Lojban translation by Lindar. The game is available on [http://store.steampowered.com/app/208710/ Steam].&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.minecraft.net/ Minecraft] is a creative exploration game where you pick and place blocks to build worlds. A large group of contributors have created a community translation of Minecraft, which is included in Minecraft 1.9+. Unfortunately, it needs further translation on [http://crowdin.net/project/minecraft Minecraft&#039;s public translation website] in order for it to be complete.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [[File:830.sip|link=]] [[File:829.sip|link=]] [http://www.voxelands.com/ Voxelands] is yet another creative exploration game and comes with an official translation, although it might not be perfect yet. Everyone is welcome to improve it on [https://www.transifex.com/voxelands/voxelands/language/jbo/].&lt;br /&gt;
* [[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=http://blankmediagames.com/TownOfSalem/]] [[File:828.sip|link=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blankmediagames.townofsalemthecoven]] [http://blankmediagames.com/TownOfSalem/ Town of Salem] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash_Player#Desktop_platforms Flash]) is an online version of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game) Mafia] party game; itself is only available in English and in Turkish. However, private party groups can be formed in order to communicate in the language players have agreed upon. [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blankmediagames.townofsalem The Android version] is currently only available for tablets. Town of Salem related stuff is being translated in [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mlbf9nHkG5TtEZs1tl5aRVQoukvnD8CXAImwraFxxq4/edit?usp=sharing this public Google Spreadsheet] and occasionally check out [https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban/search/?query=mafia the Lojban Facebook group] for any proposed private games.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Editing ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] A [http://mbays.freeshell.org/lojban.vim vim filetype plugin] for convenient word-list lookup, auto-lujvoification, and other useful things.&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LojbanMode Lojban-mode] syntax highlighting and other support code for emacs&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:831.sip|link=]] [http://gitorious.org/jbotci jbofacki] [https://archive.softwareheritage.org/browse/origin/directory/?origin_url=https://gitorious.org/jbotci/jbotci.git backup] is a jbofihe/camxes CLI shell with Tab-completion of valsi and rafsi, colorized word lookups by literal name or string, etc. Intended for increased fun in exploring the construction of Lojban texts/sentences; also useful as a aid to memory (mi&#039;e la kampu). Requires Python 2.5+, and currently also [http://github.com/dag/makfa-cli makfa-cli] for generation + update of dictionary data.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine translation ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://lojban.lilyx.net/zmifanva/ zmifanva] created by [http://masatohagiwara.net/ Masato Hagiwara], Lojban ↔ English Machine Translation Engine  based on phrase-based statistical machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
** [https://github.com/youxkei/lojbo-tuhitsku lojbo-tuhitsku] created by youxkei. It obtains tweets, translates them into Lojban and tweets them. It calls Microsoft Translator for translation from Japanese to English, and zmifanva for English to Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[File:Gnome-globe.svg|link=]] [http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014107847567658722055%3A3enx_7t3upo Google custom search engine for Lojban resources]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[morphology: analysis programs comparison|Morphology analysis programs comparison]]&lt;br /&gt;
Other software can be seen on the [[Talk:Lojbanic Software|talk page]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:vlaste saske]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_18_moi&amp;diff=124096</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 18 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_18_moi&amp;diff=124096"/>
		<updated>2020-08-22T03:40:14Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 17 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 18 - May-June 1993&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1993, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logfest 93 - July 9-12&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rafsi List Revised and Baselined&lt;br /&gt;
DETAILS IN NEWS SECTION&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ju&#039;i lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot; (commonly called &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;), and informing the community about logical languages in general.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations.&lt;br /&gt;
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For purposes of terminology, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; refers to a specific version of a logical human language, the generic language and associated research project having been called &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; refer to both the generic language and to Lojban as a specific instance of that language. The Lojban version of Loglan was created as an alternative because Dr. Brown and his organization claims copyright on everything in his version, including each individual word of the vocabulary. The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose without permission or royalty. la lojbangirz. believes that such free usage is a necessary condition for an engineered language like Loglan/Lojban to become a true human language, and to succeed in the various goals that have been proposed for its use.&lt;br /&gt;
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Press run for this issue of ju&#039;i lobypli: 130. We now have about 720 people receiving our publications, and 250 more awaiting textbook publication.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Important Notices &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Important: Your mailing label indicates the last issue of your subscription. If that issue is JL18, we need to hear from you, preferably with money for another year&#039;s subscription (US$28 North America, US$35 elsewhere).&lt;br /&gt;
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Note the new network address on page 2 for the Planned Languages Server if you wish to obtain electronic copies of our materials. The address published last issue turned out to be incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us of changes in your activity/interest level. Balances reflect contributions received thru 15 June 1993. Mailing codes (and approximate balance needs) are:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Activity/Interest Level:     Highest Package Received (Price Each)     Other codes:&lt;br /&gt;
B - Observer                 0 - Introductory Materials ($5)           JL JL Subscription ($28-$35/yr)&lt;br /&gt;
C - Active Supporter         1 - Word Lists and Language Description ($15) (followed by expiration issue #)&lt;br /&gt;
D - Lojban Student           2 - Language Design Information ($10)     * indicates subscription prepaid&lt;br /&gt;
E - Lojban Practitioner      3 - Draft Teaching Materials ($30)        LK LK Subscription ($5-$6/- yr)&lt;br /&gt;
R Review Copy (no charge)                                              UP Automatic Updates (&amp;gt;$20 balance)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Please keep us informed of changes in your mailing address, and US subscribers are asked to provide ZIP+4 codes whenever you know them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Contents of This Issue&lt;br /&gt;
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The biggest news this issue is the baselining of the rafsi list, the last major piece of the language to be frozen before dictionary publication. Two articles this issue deal with the Lojban rafsi, and the latest change, and the revised list is included with the issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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As soon as this issue goes to the printers, I will be starting to work intensively on dictionary publication, with the intent to have something to show off at LogFest, our annual gathering here in July. See the news section for more on the dictionary work, and on LogFest 93. Because JL issues are taking 1-2 months to prepare, I am not going to be able to get JL on the hoped for quarterly schedule and also get the dictionary and textbook published this year. As such, I will not start work on JL19 until September, to enable me to work all summer on getting the dictionary out. I also had to cut off work on this issue rather abruptly, though hopefully without too much loss in quality. Details in the news section.&lt;br /&gt;
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This issue summarizes all grammar changes proposed for the dictionary rebaselining, and the revised E-BNF form of the grammar. Articles detail the rationale behind several of the changes, with a focus on the most significant change relating to relative clauses. A selection of articles deal with usage issues that have come up on Lojban List, and we have a couple of more philosophical discussions on the goals of the language. As is usual, material derived from the Lojban List computer, as well as from the &#039;conlang&#039; mailing list, is edited, revised, and corrected from the original.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are 3 longer Lojban texts in this issue, one related to the ckafybarja project discussed in JL17. The discussions of grammar and usage issues., though have a lot of Lojban text in them, perhaps as much as in the longer pieces. I made an effort to update all lujvo in this issue to the new rafsi baseline, so that you can use the lists accompanying this issue to interpret them. However, since I did this manually, don&#039;t be surprised if I missed one or two.&lt;br /&gt;
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                          Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
Brief Glossary of Lojban Terms                                    ---3&lt;br /&gt;
News - JL Status, Subscriptions, Finances, LogFest 93             ---3&lt;br /&gt;
 Other News:  DC Weekly Group, Bradford Group, UK LogFest, Book&lt;br /&gt;
 Status                                                           ---4&lt;br /&gt;
Language Development Status:  gismu, rafsi, Grammar               ---5&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Proto-Reference Book (Dictionary) - Preliminary Outline    ---6&lt;br /&gt;
Sample English-to Lojban dictionary (intermediate step)           ---8&lt;br /&gt;
On Lojban rafsi; Revised rafsi Assignments                        ---9&lt;br /&gt;
On lujvo, by Greg Higley; &amp;quot;General Purpose lujvo&amp;quot;, by Greg Higley;&lt;br /&gt;
 Greg Proposes and Explains some lujvo                           ---20&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo ce ciska                                    ---21, 47, 50, 66&lt;br /&gt;
Grammar Changes                                                  ---22&lt;br /&gt;
A Change to the Relative Clause Grammar: Quantification and noi, by&lt;br /&gt;
 Greg Higley; sumti and Relative Clauses, by Colin Fine; Lojbab&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
 Solution; Excerpts from the Original Changes 20 and 21, with&lt;br /&gt;
 Discussion                                                      ---30&lt;br /&gt;
Articles Related to Usage/Grammar/Word Change Proposals: New JOI,&lt;br /&gt;
 by Greg Higley; kau, by Greg Higley                             ---43&lt;br /&gt;
Empathy in Attitudinals, by John Cowan; Summary of cmavo Changes in&lt;br /&gt;
 selma&#039;o UI; Punctuation Proposals, by Nick Nicholas             ---48&lt;br /&gt;
More Usage Questions: Dean Gahlon asks a simple question; SVO Order&lt;br /&gt;
 in Lojban; And Rosta on &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;te&amp;quot;, &amp;amp; lujvo;  On the Grammar and&lt;br /&gt;
 Range of Free Modifiers; Comments on the Tense System, by Greg&lt;br /&gt;
 Higley; ko&#039;a stizu; Questions on Logical Connection; Causality in&lt;br /&gt;
 Lojban; On le and lo and Existence; A Heated Exchange?          ---53&lt;br /&gt;
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Language Goals:  Lojban and Metaphydsical Bias; Sapir-Whorfian&lt;br /&gt;
 Thoughts; Metacognition-friendly Languages                      ---61&lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban-to-Prolog semantic analyzer, by Nick Nicholas           ---67&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Lojban Machine Grammar: E-BNF Version, dated 12 June&lt;br /&gt;
 1993; 06/01/93 Lojban baseline rafsi list&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to la lojbangirz./Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
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 lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
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(This supersedes the prior &amp;quot;snark&amp;quot; address.)&lt;br /&gt;
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You can also join the Lojban List mailing list (currently around 70 subscribers). Send a single line message (automatically processed) containing only:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;subscribe lojban yourfirstname yourlastname&amp;quot; to:&lt;br /&gt;
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 listserv@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
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If you have problems needing human intervention, send to:&lt;br /&gt;
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 lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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Send traffic for the mailing list to:&lt;br /&gt;
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lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
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Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility. If you want to participate on Lojban List, you should be prepared to read your mail at least every couple of days; otherwise your mailbox fills up and you are dropped from the mailing-list. FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details if you don&#039;t know how to access the Internet network.&lt;br /&gt;
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A good portion of our materials are available on-line from the Planned Languages Server (PLS). See JL16, or send the messages &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;send lojban readme&amp;quot; to the server address: &lt;br /&gt;
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 langserv@columbia.edu &lt;br /&gt;
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This is a new address since JL17 was published.&lt;br /&gt;
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The following explicitly identifies people who are referred to by initials in JL. &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;Lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of ju&#039;i lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039; - Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Loglan&#039; - refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and &#039;Institute Loglan&#039; another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;PLS&#039; - The Planned Languages Server, a no-charge computer-network-accessed distribution center for materials on Lojban (and other artificial languages). See pg. 2 for email address.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Brief Glossary of Lojban Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are definitions of frequently used Lojban terms. Longer explanations are in the Overview of Lojban. cmavo - Lojban structure words&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;gismu&#039;&#039;&#039; - Lojban root words; currently 1342;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;rafsi&#039;&#039;&#039; - short combining-forms for the gismu;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;lujvo&#039;&#039;&#039; - compound words built from rafsi;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;le&#039;avla&#039;&#039;&#039; - words borrowed from other languages (there are people who would like to see another term, with a better metaphor, for this concept, but &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot; will remain a valid term for the indefinite future; suggestions are welcome);&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;brivla&#039;&#039;&#039; - Lojban predicate words, consisting of gismu, lujvo, and le&#039;avla; (a few cmavo have the grammar of a brivla);&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;tanru&#039;&#039;&#039; - Lojban &#039;binary&#039; metaphors, the most productive and creative expression form of the language, unambiguous in syntax/grammar, but ambiguous in semantics/meaning; tanru generally have a modifying portion (generally on the left) that serves the function of an English adjective or adverb, and a modified portion (on the right).&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;sumti&#039;&#039;&#039; - the arguments of a logical predicate;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;selbri&#039;&#039;&#039; - Lojban predicates which indicate a relation among one or more sumti. A selbri is most often a brivla or tanru; the concept was formerly called &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot; in error in some of our early publications;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;bridi&#039;&#039;&#039; - Lojban predications, the basic grammatical structure of the language; a bridi expresses a complete relationship: the selbri expresses the relation and the sumti express the various things being related;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;selma&#039;o&#039;&#039;&#039; - grammatical categories of Lojban words; the basis of the unambiguous formal grammar of the language. Traditionally and erroneously called &amp;quot;lexeme&amp;quot; in the Loglan community. These categories typically have a name derived from one word in that grammatical category; the name is all capitals, except that an apostrophe is replaced by a small letter &#039;h&#039; (this is an artifact of the computer language &amp;quot;C&amp;quot; in which the formal Lojban grammar is defined for the YACC processor; C forbids apostrophes in &#039;tokens&#039; representing single words.&lt;br /&gt;
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== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
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===JL Status===&lt;br /&gt;
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I remain short of my goal of publishing every three months, at least partially because getting all of the mailings out the door last issue took more than a month in the first place. But hopefully 4 months is better than the delays we had been having.&lt;br /&gt;
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I delayed a little in hopes of seeing some more submissions for the ckafybarja (coffeehouse) writing project, especially from those of you who first became aware of the project with the publication of last issue. Nick Nicholas revised one piece that was in progress when JL17 was published. Then, at the last minute, he submitted a character description on behalf of a friend. But otherwise, alas, only silence. As a result, the period for submission of characters and/or setting ideas has been extended indefinitely, until the various people who have contributed feel that enough has been submitted to either vote, or to at least turn fully to the Lojban writing endeavor that is intended.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, this issue of JL has taken even longer to produce, almost 2 months from the day I started. And I had thought that the issue was partially done when I started. Family life, supporting the computer network discussion, and administrative tasks have kept me from working efficiently, and the types of materials we are publishing are taking longer to edit than older issues, because of the need to ensure clarity and accuracy of technical content.&lt;br /&gt;
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The books have been too long delayed while I tried to get JL on a more frequent schedule. We&#039;ve improved the JL frequency, though not to the quarterly level I want, or need in order to get 2nd class mailing from the Postal Service. As such, I have decided to cut off work on this JL and go directly to work on the books for the whole summer. I will not be starting JL19 until September (which means publication probably in October, or perhaps even November). Hopefully the dictionary will be done by then, and maybe (but not likely) the textbook. I&#039;m sure that the decision to put book publication higher priority than regular JL publication is one which the community will find acceptable, provided that we maintain some minimum publication frequency; 3 issues this year, while not the desired 4, is considerably better than we did the last two years.&lt;br /&gt;
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This delay will also serve to give more time for people to submit writings for the ckafybarja project, per the above discussion, before the next decision point. Let&#039;s see some more participation this time.&lt;br /&gt;
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As partial recompense for the delay, this issue is larger than intended. Our prices were set on an assumed average of 60-70 pages per issue, but both of the last two issues have been longer than that. I will wait till next issue to decide, but if issues continue to run long, I may have to increase the subscription price by about $1 per issue ($4 per 4 issues) as of next issue. Orders and renewals until then (up to a maximum 8 issues prepaid) will be at the rate of US$28 for 4 issues (US) and US$35 overseas.&lt;br /&gt;
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Because the rafsi change baseline took place at a date just before publication, and because the issue was so long already, I&#039;ve put a minimum of Lojban text in this issue. Next issue will probably have quite a bit more text, since Nora is working on a program that will convert lujvo based on pre-baseline rafsi to the new baseline.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Subscriptions===&lt;br /&gt;
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We are now fully on the subscription system, and for the most part, people who have not sent a request for JL are no longer receiving it. We have a slightly smaller subscriber list than last issue, but we know that everyone getting the issue really wants it.&lt;br /&gt;
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I now have to get publication solidly onto the quarterly schedule, in order to get 2nd class status, which means it probably won&#039;t happen this year while book publication takes precedence. Until then, people will get JL a little quicker, via first class mail, and of course we are going to still be losing some money as a result.&lt;br /&gt;
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As of the publication date, we have around 120 JL subscribers. For about 25 of these, JL18 is listed as their last issue, but I expect at least half of these to renew their subscription based on the experience of the last 4 months. Thus, the number of (all paid) subscribers will drop to around 110 for JL19, and seems likely to stabilize at around that level until books are published (when it hopefully will increase). US recipients will continue to get their issue by first class mail.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Finances===&lt;br /&gt;
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We continue to expend money faster than we are taking it in, but the rate of hemorrhage has slowed (at least until this issue goes out). We already had a deficit for 1993 of a couple of thousand dollars by April, which has been remedied by the delay in publication, and significant donations from Jeff Prothero (totalling $1500 so far this year, or almost 1/2 of our income). We will still need a fund raising drive in order to make it through the year. I intend to ask for donations in the letter that announces publication of the first book. Substantial donations and/or massive orders will also be necessary to keep the price for the Lojban books reasonable, since small print-runs alone will add several dollars to the price of each book, and we cannot afford a larger print run. (Expected publication costs will run around $10,000. Donors welcome!)&lt;br /&gt;
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===LogFest 93===&lt;br /&gt;
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The dates for LogFest 93, and the annual meeting of la lojbangirz. has been set. The gathering will take place at Lojbab&#039;s house in Fairfax VA (per the la lojbangirz. address and phone number) the weekend of 9-12 July 1993 (we traditionally open up on Friday, but schedule few organized activities for that day; people can feel free to arrive on Saturday the 10th, to come for only one day, etc.). As in previous years, families are welcome, although we are requesting that attendees bring sleeping bags, etc. if possible. One or more tents will be set up in the yard as applicable to ensure plenty of sleeping space.&lt;br /&gt;
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The invitation to families is a bit more meaningful this year, since we now have two kids. Child care duties will presumably be shared among the relevant adults to maximize people&#039;s abilities to participate in activities.&lt;br /&gt;
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Interest in participating in LogFest seems a bit higher than in previous years, perhaps because more people believe that they can do something with the language, and that books to help learn and use the language will shortly be coming out. Preliminary positive responses from around 20 people suggest that we will set a new turnout record this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no required admission fee for LogFest. Our costs for putting on LogFest have averaged $20-$30 per attendee in previous years, and we ask attendees to donate at least enough to cover their share if possible. But we don&#039;t want money to stand in the way of your attending if you are interested in coming.&lt;br /&gt;
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As is typical for LogFests, we expect that this year will consist of mostly English-language activities, with an emphasis on Lojban-teaching and learning activities for those new or less experienced in the language. There will probably be significant discussion of the ckafybarja Project, which was significantly developed at last year&#039;s gathering.&lt;br /&gt;
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Several Lojbanists have expressed serious interest in having a major emphasis on Lojban conversation at this gathering, and we believe that there are enough people skilled enough in the language that we can do this, while providing mentoring/tutoring to those who are unable to understand what is being said without help.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are also trying to arrange international Lojban conversation during LogFest, most likely by live &#039;interaction&#039; on the computer networks with Colin Fine and other British Lojbanists, and Nick Nicholas in Australia, using the &amp;quot;IRC&amp;quot; function (see &#039;Other News&#039; below). Those not able to attend LogFest, but who have Internet access may want to contact us at lojbab@grebyn.com prior to LogFest, and we will try to set some definite times, so that you can also participate in these sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
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While the books will not be published before LogFest, I will be making a major effort to have copies of some or all of the books-in-progress available for people to look at, and possibly to use during Lojban sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
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The annual meeting will take place on 11 July 1993 at 10:30 AM. At this point, there is much less on the agenda than in previous years, and we are hoping that this means that the meeting will be shorter than usual. (People planning to attend who would like to see a policy topic discussed at the meeting are welcome to suggest agenda items.)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Other News===&lt;br /&gt;
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DC Weekly Group - The DC weekly group, consisting of 4 Lojbanists (with a 5th planning to start regular particpation this month), continues to meet, and do a little conversation each week in Lojban. We seem to have plateaued in skill level, since only a couple of us are spending much time on Lojban on other days of the week, and my activities are not the type that enhance my Lojban skills.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bradford Group - Colin Fine&#039;s group in Bradford, UK, continues to grow and to meet regularly, and from postings on the net, is probably achieving a sophistication in Lojban use at least comparable to us in DC. There are 3 participants at this writing.&lt;br /&gt;
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UK LogFest - Colin Fine and Iain Alexander have been actively recruiting Lojbanists in the United Kingdom, and the numbers are growing significantly, now approximately 40. In addition, a higher percentage of British Lojbanists are active students of the language, whereas many American Lojbanists seem to be holding back on learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of the increased numbers, Colin and Iain proposed that a LogFest gathering be held in the UK this year, and this idea met with ready agreement from other Lojbanists. At publication, it appears that the UK LogFest will be held in September, probably at Colin&#039;s house in Bradford. Lojbanists throughout the UK, and indeed all of Europe, are encouraged to attend. Independent of JL publication, when a date for this LogFest is firmly set, we will try to send notice to all European Lojbanists of the details for this gathering.&lt;br /&gt;
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Colin is also planning a gathering the weekend of the American LogFest, as a &#039;dry run&#039; for the bigger event, and Lojbanists are welcome to visit that weekend as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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For further details, please contact Colin Fine at (44) 274 733680 (home) or 274 733466 x3915 (work), or by mail at 33 Pemberton Drive, Bradford, West Yorkshire BD7 1RA, UK&lt;br /&gt;
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CIX - A possible bolster to Colin&#039;s efforts to build a UK Lojban group was the formation within the last couple of months of a Lojban discussion group on the UK computer network &#039;CIX&#039;. This group has grown rapidly, and is reported to have some 25 participants. Lojban List traffic is echoed to this group, and Colin plans to obtain CIX access later this year to assist those interested in studying Lojban in furthering their progress.&lt;br /&gt;
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IRC - Colin Fine, Nick Nicholas, and Mark Shoulson started a pattern of using the computer network system called &amp;quot;Internet Relay Chat&amp;quot; or IRC, in order to enable &#039;live&#039; Lojban conversation between Lojbanists otherwise isolated. A group of Lojbanists is thus now meeting irregularly on the computer networks to converse in Lojban, recently including David Young and Sylvia Rutiser from the DC Lojban group. If you are on the Internet with access to the IRC function, and want to participate, contact us by e-mail per page 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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As described above, we are hoping to use the IRC facility in conjunction with LogFest, to bring more people into the activities here.&lt;br /&gt;
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Legal - The trademark on &#039;Loglan&#039; has now been officially cancelled, in accordance with the court order following our legal victory on this issue. TLI did not include the trademark claim in the first publication after the cancellation.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have now paid off the legal debt, with money contributed by Lojbab and Jeff Prothero.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Institute - There is little to report about the Loglan Institute these days; not much seems to be going on. The organization continues to exist, and may be gaining supporters, although at considerable expense. TLI had an advertisement in the April 1993 Scientific American, although they reported in Lognet that they spent an amount for the ad that would take an enormous response in order to break even. TLI has apparently set up a computer network mailing list, but people who have subscribed to it report no activity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TLI may be nearing completion of their own dictionary revision, which will be issued in electronic form (a price of $50 has been mentioned). They are also reporting work on a substantial revision on the rules of their language version, in order to make it, like Lojban, truly &#039;self-segregating&#039; at the word level (i.e., unambiguity demands that you always be able to break a stream of Loglan/Lojban sounds down into individual words uniquely; the TLI language version has been seriously defective in this area).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will be the last issue containing a regular report on TLI; we will, of course, continue to report any real news about the organization that I receive either through official or unofficial channels. But with the end of the legal battle, there seems to be little interest among the Lojban community in hearing about TLI, so long as they seem to be avoiding resolution of our differences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Book Status===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Work continues on the books, but we cannot report any completion dates yet. Highest priority remains the dictionary/reference, and that occupies most of Lojbab&#039;s time in between JL issues, along with the administrative tasks involved in keeping the organization running (including responding to orders and questions from the community by mail). Unfortunately, these latter tasks continue to take too much time, with the inevitable continued delays. There is some significant progress though. In this issue, however, are two reports on the dictionary/reference: an outline, and a sample discussing our approach to doing the English-order portion of the dictionary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As the outline shows, the contents of the reference book have swollen to the point that we are strongly considering issuing the reference as two books - one more of a reference per se, while the other is a pure dictionary of English-Lojban and Lojban-English, emphasizing content words. A major reason for this has been Nick Nicholas&#039;s excellent and extensive work on lujvo, which promises to give us several thousand entries in each direction in the dictionary if it is completed. Nick is also writing a paper describing his treatment of place structures in lujvo-making, which will also be included in the reference book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan has completed a revision of the entire content of the draft textbook lessons, reorganizing the materials and updating them to the current language. The results will be merged with the new work that Lojbab has done towards a textbook, and will then result in the draft textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John also has continued writing his survey papers covering the entirety of the language from the standpoint of the grammar, which will be assembled into the Lojban Reference Grammar. This still will be the last of the scheduled books to be completed, since John has several papers left to write, and all of the papers must yet be reviewed by several people before they are finalized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Language Development Status==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===gismu===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Last issue we noted adding of 4 new gismu to support the new international metric prefixes, but did not list the words. They are (with the international prefix in parentheses):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 gocti 10-24 (yocto-)&lt;br /&gt;
 gotro 1024 (yotta-)&lt;br /&gt;
 zepti 10-21 (zepto-)&lt;br /&gt;
 zetro 1021 (zetta-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major work on the gismu list continues to be the resolution of a few open issues on place structures. These issues will be decided as we prepare the dictionary reference. As soon as these issues are decided, the gismu list will be split into two forms, the current form that is intended for use with LogFlash, and a version oriented towards dictionary formatting. Once we have two lists, keeping them matching with each other will be a substantial requirement. In case of conflict, the dictionary format listing will be presumed to have precedence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===rafsi===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are baselining the rafsi list, as changed and published in this issue, effective June 1, 1993. We had intended to have the baseline effective with the book publication, but the books aren&#039;t out, and the pending change has had a noticeable effect on people&#039;s willingness to make and use lujvo, as well as to write in Lojban in general. Since we expect no changes in the few months before the book comes out, it seems logical to make the change effective now. We are issuing a new list of rafsi as an attachment to this issue, in all of the various orders typically used by Lojbanists, and including the lujvo-making algorithm now excluding le&#039;avla lujvo, which are handled by inserting &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot; between components, with no rafsi used. The place structures are not included in the rafsi list (a full gismu list in both Lojban and keyword order, would be larger than this issue).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Included in this issue is a discussion of why the Lojban rafsi system works the way it does, and a report indicating why the changes were made and how we went about making the changes. Greg Higley also discusses his ideas on lujvo-making, and gives some samples of the words he has invented. (Other Lojbanists are invited to submit lujvo that you have coined, along with commentary/explanations of how you came to choose those words).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora is integrating ad hoc software programs into a software capability to correct and revise older texts written with the earlier rafsi list. The current procedure is sufficiently complicated, and the baseline so close to publication, that I had to conevrt all lujvo manually this time. Luckily, this issue has less text than last issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Grammar===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue contains a complete summary of the changes to the Lojban grammar that are pending, and an attachment includes the revised E-BNF notation form of the Lojban grammar incorporating those changes. The grammar is effectively being rebaselined with this publication, as we are using a parser incorporating the changes to evaluate Lojban text, and do not otherwise intend to continue using the previous grammar baseline in any way. On the other hand, there is still the possibility of minor corrections before the official rebaselining in conjunction with book publication. If you have any disagreements with any of the proposed changes, we need to hear from you as soon as possible, but we will consider any comments.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The previous version of the E-BNF had typographical errors, making it difficult for some to use. Enough Lojbanists are actively using the E-BNF as a tool of studying the language that we felt that this should not wait any longer for published revision. Special thanks to John Cowan for devising and maintaining the E-BNF.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are not yet publishing a new version of the formal grammar definition (the &#039;YACC&#039; grammar), which will appear in the published reference book. Note that the E-BNF, while computer-ish in style, is not the formal definition that has been verified as unambiguous. It was prepared manually from the formal definition, and has been checked many times, but the YACC grammar takes precedence in case of disagreement between the two versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The summary of proposed changes, which may be written rather technically for some readers, shows that there continue to be minor changes proposed in the Lojban grammar, nearly all of which are extensions to the expressive power of the language. As John Cowan continues writing the papers that will eventually comprise the Lojban &#039;reference grammar&#039;, minor problems may be discovered that require further changes. We are hoping that all of these will be found before the first book is published, when the official rebaselining will take effect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, these changes are so minor that almost none of them affect any text written thus far. Some changes enable new usages where it was found that existing forms were leading to unacceptable semantic situations (see the discussions below of relative clauses - change 20, and JOI - changes 30 and 31 for examples of such changes). As a result of these changes, the changed semantics of some of the older forms may render some older texts as inaccurate, even while still being grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue also contains edited discussions that led to some of the more significant proposals being adopted. These proposals often started as discussions of Lojban stylistics, and understanding these discussions will help you gain a better understanding of how you must think about what you are trying to say in order to properly phrase the Lojban. Note that many of the participants in these discussions are not especially advanced, or skilled, Lojbanists. It is worthwhile to plow through the occasional jargon-ridden passages (there is a limit to how much this editor feels he can change what people write, even for the sake of clarity) to follow the thought processes of these new and more advanced Lojban students. You&#039;ll learn a lot about the language and how it works, and maybe a little bit about how people at different levels of skill approach problems of expression in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Lojban Proto-Reference Book===&lt;br /&gt;
Preliminary Outline with estimated page counts by section&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is the outline for the proto-reference book which Lojbab is using as of publication time. It includes a description of each section contemplated for inclusion, and an estimated page count. Major tables, forming the bulk of the book, are the most unpredictable portions in length; these are marked with asterisks (*). The estimated page counts in the following are in most cases just that - estimates (a bar indicates a page count for several related sections). The text is not in general written in any final form, although almost all of the materials exist in some preliminary form that mostly requires editing, rather than new writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Due to space and publication cost, some of the materials listed in the outline may be left out. For example, many people would not be that interested in the gismu list etymologies, especially since they are in a rather preliminary form that may make them less easy to use than they eventually will be. On the other hand, the features documented in the outline are those that define Lojban officially, and all may be helpful to both language learners and to people looking over our shoulder to examine the quality of the Lojban design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A study of the outline shows that, with the exception of the dictionary proper, no section of the book is particularly long, such that omitting it would substantially reduce the size of the books. The only real tradeoff that might make a major difference would be to avoid the practice of listing most data twice - once in the full dictionary, and once in a list specific to the type of information being presented.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, the nature of the language is such that people will want and need those separate lists fully as much as any combined dictionary list. When you are making new words, you need a handy list of the gismu and their rafsi, and other data, especially existing lujvo, would be a distraction. Similarly, people tend to use lists of cmavo in selma&#039;o order as often, if not more often, than they use alphabetical lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reference will include three attempts that have been made to devise a thesaurus-style semantic index for Lojban. None of the efforts really can be considered authoritative, and indeed, Lojbab believes that there is a significant problem with the standard thesaurus technique, which tends to be more noun/adjective-oriented than verboriented. In dealing with a predicate language, which is probably more like a verborientation - most of the words have been categorized on the basis of the meaning of their x1 place, which is often not the only place that is important to classify.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, semantic indexing of the gismu list seems to be something that most people have some use for, given the number of people who have reported doing something of that type on their own. Since we cannot produce a definitive and verified thesaurus solution, it seems better to present all three efforts, and let the user of the book decide which best suits his purpose and his understanding of the Lojban vocabulary system. Of course, this takes more pages, but we cannot honestly say, without a lot more research than we are likely to have time for in the next year, which effort is most accurate and/or useful, and what entries in each list are correct. Take all groupings therefore, with a large grain of salt, recognizing that at least one person, the compiler of the particular list, saw a semantic similarity between the various gismu that are grouped together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments on the outline, are of course welcomed.                   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 Pages Section Description&lt;br /&gt;
  4    Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Intro&lt;br /&gt;
  4     About Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
  3     About this book&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Lojban Orthography&lt;br /&gt;
  1     Letters and symbols&lt;br /&gt;
  3  |  optional conventions&lt;br /&gt;
  |     Cyrillic Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
  |     Dates&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |  compounds&lt;br /&gt;
  |    text layout&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Lojban Phonology&lt;br /&gt;
  2     consonants&lt;br /&gt;
  1     permissible initials&lt;br /&gt;
  1     permissible medials&lt;br /&gt;
  2     vowels, diphthongs, divowels&lt;br /&gt;
  2  |  syllables&lt;br /&gt;
  |    hyphen&lt;br /&gt;
  |    buffering&lt;br /&gt;
  1     stress&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |  rhythm, phrasing&lt;br /&gt;
  |    intonation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Lojban Morphology&lt;br /&gt;
  1     Summary of types and how to tell them apart&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |   cmene (names)&lt;br /&gt;
  |     cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
  |      V&lt;br /&gt;
  |      VV&lt;br /&gt;
  |      CV&lt;br /&gt;
  |      CVV&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |   brivla&lt;br /&gt;
  |      gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |     lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
  |        rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
  4         lujvo-making algorithm /tosmabru&lt;br /&gt;
  2         scoring/choice of form&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |     le&#039;avla&lt;br /&gt;
  |      le&#039;avla lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
  3     Resolver algorithm&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Syntax&lt;br /&gt;
       E-BNF&lt;br /&gt;
  2      About the E-BNF&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *E-BNF&lt;br /&gt;
  1      *selma&#039;o/E-BNF terminal index&lt;br /&gt;
       YACC Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
  8      About the YACC Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
  1      Parser algorithm&lt;br /&gt;
  20     *YACC Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
  8      *selma&#039;o/YACC grammar&lt;br /&gt;
     terminal index&lt;br /&gt;
       selma&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
  1      *selma&#039;o list&lt;br /&gt;
  20     *short alphabetical definition,&lt;br /&gt;
           subcategories with cmavo in each subcategory&lt;br /&gt;
       terminals&lt;br /&gt;
  20    *YACC terminal list, definition, examples of each type?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Lexicon&lt;br /&gt;
       The formation of gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  3      Lojbanizing rules used&lt;br /&gt;
  45    *composite gismu etymologies (may be omitted for space)&lt;br /&gt;
  1      *cultural gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  1  |   *metric gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  |     *internal gismu&lt;br /&gt;
       Place structures of gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  30    *Lojban gismu (rafsi, definition) Lojban order&lt;br /&gt;
  35    *gismu keywords; keywords/phrases for each place by gismu&lt;br /&gt;
  35    *Lojban and English order (no place structures)&lt;br /&gt;
       cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
  10    * cmavo in Lojban order&lt;br /&gt;
  10    * cmavo in selma&#039;o/subtype/alphabetical order&lt;br /&gt;
  2      * cmavo compounds typically written as one word&lt;br /&gt;
  8      * non-Lojban alphabet and symbol set conventions&lt;br /&gt;
  1      * unassigned cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
  2      * experimental cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
  1      Categories within pro-sumti (KOhA)&lt;br /&gt;
  3      Categories within UI&lt;br /&gt;
  2  |  Use of BAI to add places/cases&lt;br /&gt;
  |     *list of BAIs typically used to add cases&lt;br /&gt;
  |     *list of BAIs typically used as sumti modifiers&lt;br /&gt;
       rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
  1      Assignment of rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
  8      *rafsi, by type,&lt;br /&gt;
     alphabetically&lt;br /&gt;
  8      *rafsi, pure alphabetical&lt;br /&gt;
  20   How to determine place structures of lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
       lujvo lists&lt;br /&gt;
  45    *lujvo actually in use - estimated ~1800&lt;br /&gt;
  45    *proposed lujvo (possibly intermingled with preceding) systematically created (using &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;te&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ve&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;xe&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot;, etc.  estimated ~3000&lt;br /&gt;
  22    *pre Eaton/TLI lists (heavily weeded and edited) - estimated ~1500&lt;br /&gt;
  15    *collected old proposals ~1000&lt;br /&gt;
  1     Lojbanizing of names&lt;br /&gt;
  4      *some personal names&lt;br /&gt;
  4      *some country/language names&lt;br /&gt;
       le&#039;avla&lt;br /&gt;
  3      types of le&#039;avla&lt;br /&gt;
  1      the culture word issue&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *cultural le&#039;avla&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *some food items&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *some plants/animals&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *element words&lt;br /&gt;
  198  *Lojban order dictionary ???  (composed of all preceding lists) [gismu (25), cmavo (20), rafsi (8), cmene (names) (6), le&#039;avla (12), lujvo(127)]&lt;br /&gt;
  310  *English-order dictionary [page counts dependent on Lojban order counts:  gismu (est. pg. x 5), cmavo (x 2), names(x 1), le&#039;avla(x 1), lujvo(x 1)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Thesaurus&lt;br /&gt;
       systems of categorization&lt;br /&gt;
  4      *Roget&#039;s/Athelstan/Lojbab&lt;br /&gt;
  4      *Carter&lt;br /&gt;
  4      *Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
  40   *gismu to category for each type&lt;br /&gt;
  30   *category to gismu for each type&lt;br /&gt;
  10   *English-order cross-index of categories&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  30 Appendix - *Glossary of Lojban/Linguistic Terminology&lt;br /&gt;
     Appendix - Correspondences with historical TLI Loglan&lt;br /&gt;
  2     Alternate Orthography for Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
       Lojban gismu correspondence to historical TLI Loglan gismu and lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
  12    *Lojban gismu order&lt;br /&gt;
  8      *historical Loglan gismu order&lt;br /&gt;
       Lojban selma&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
        correspondence to historical TLI Loglan selma&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *Lojban selma&#039;o order&lt;br /&gt;
  3      *historical Loglan selma&#039;o order&lt;br /&gt;
       Lojban cmavo correspondence to historical TLI Loglan cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
  10    *Lojban cmavo order&lt;br /&gt;
  6      *historical Loglan cmavo order&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  8  Index&lt;br /&gt;
 ____&lt;br /&gt;
  502 pages reference +&lt;br /&gt;
  508 pages dictionary +&lt;br /&gt;
   92 pages thesaurus +&lt;br /&gt;
   82 pages appendices =&lt;br /&gt;
 ____&lt;br /&gt;
 1184pg&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Sample English-to-Lojban dictionary (intermediate step)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is a sample of the output from a KWIC (Key Word In Context) tool that John Cowan wrote specifically to help automate creating the English-to-Lojban dictionary. This is a trial effort, which will almost certainly play a part in the creation of the English portion of the dictionary. There may be some differences in style or format. Comments are welcome as to how usable you find this style of presentation of the vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This format is that used by the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs, which has the problem of deciding how to alphabetize a list of proverbs. Just using the first word (or even the first content word) is not enough; what if you remember only the word &amp;quot;devil&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;Needs must when the devil drives&amp;quot;? Each proverb is listed, therefore, under all its content words. The word is rotated to the front, followed by a comma; the place from which it was removed is marked by a &amp;quot;|&amp;quot; character (omitted at the beginning or end).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John took a similar approach here. The entire place structure definition is processed, and the corresponding gismu is attached to the end, set off by a &amp;quot;¯&amp;quot; sign. The rafsi, if any, are appended in parentheses. This version of the program omits all words appearing more than 20 times in the input; there is no point in listing words under &amp;quot;x4&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;event&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;the&amp;quot;. An exception is made when the word is also the LogFlash keyword: thus &amp;quot;zvati&amp;quot; appears under &amp;quot;at&amp;quot;, but no other word does because &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; is too frequent. Two different fonts and three sizes are shown. We will probably use trhe smallest that we think can be clearly read in reproduction. Comments welcome, especially from those with vision problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
abdomen: x1 is a / the | / belly / lower trunk of x2; ¯betfu (bef be&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
able: x1 is | to do / be / capable of doing / being x2 under conditions x3; ¯kakne (kak ka&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
above: x1 is directly | / upwards-from x2 in gravity / frame of reference x4; ¯gapru (gar)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
abrupt: x1 is sudden / | / sharply changes at stage / point x2 in process / property / function x3; ¯suksa (suk)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
absolute: x1 is a fact / reality / truth, in the | ; ¯fatci (fac)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
absorbs: x1 soaks up / | / sucks up x2 from x3 into x4; ¯cokcu (cok cko co&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
abstracted: x1 is | / generalized / idealized from x2 by rules x3; ¯sucta (suc)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
academy: x1 is a school / institute / | at x2 teaching subject x3 to audience / community x4 operated by x5; ¯ckule (cu&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accessing: x1 is a street / avenue / lane / drive / cul-de-sac / way / alley / at x2 | x3; ¯klaji (laj)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accident: x1 is an | / unintentional on the part of x2; x1 is an accident; ¯snuti (nut nu&#039;i)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accommodates: x1 contains / holds / encloses / | / includes contents x2 within; x1 is a vessel containing x2; ¯vasru (vas vau)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accompanies: x1 is with / | / is a companion of x2, in state / condition / enterprise x3; ¯kansa (kas)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accompaniment: x1 dances to | x2; ¯dansu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accomplishes: x1 succeeds in / achieves / completes / | x2; ¯snada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a dimension of space / object x2 | to rules / model x3; ¯cimde&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a family / clan / tribe with members x2 bonded / tied / joined | to standard x3; ¯lanzu (laz)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a history of x2 | to x3 / from point-of-view x3; ¯citri (cir)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is an heir to / is to inherit x2 from x3 | to rule x4; ¯cerda (ced)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is polite / courteous in matter x2 | to standard / custom x3; ¯clite (lit)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the east / eastern side of x2 | to frame of reference x3; ¯stuna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the north / northern side of x2 | to frame-of-reference x3; ¯berti (ber)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the south / southern side of x2 | to frame of reference x3; ¯snanu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the west / western side of x2 | to frame of reference x3; ¯stici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is / reflects a pattern of forms / events x2 arranged | to structure x3; ¯morna (mor mo&#039;a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
account: x1 is an | / bill / invoice for goods / services x2, billed to x3, billed by x4; ¯janta (jat ja&#039;a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accountable: x1 is responsible / | for x2 to judge / authority x3; ¯fuzme (fuz fu&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accruing: x1 is a profit / gain / benefit / advantage to x2 | / resulting from activity / process x3; ¯prali (pal)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accuracy: x1 measures / evaluates x2 as x3 units on scale x4, with | x5; ¯merli (mel mei)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
achieve: x1 helps / assists / aids object / person x2 do / | / maintain event / activity x3; ¯sidju (sid dju)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
achieves: x1 succeeds in / | / completes / accomplishes x2; ¯snada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acid: x1 is a quantity of / contains / is made of | of composition x2; x1 is acidic; ¯slami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acidic: x1 is a quantity of / contains / is made of acid of composition x2; x1 is; ¯slami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acids: x1 is a quantity of protein / albumin of type x2 composed of amino; ¯lanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acquires: x1 gets / | / obtains x2 from source x3; ¯cpacu (cpa)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acrid: x1 is bitter / | / sharply disagreeable to x2; ¯kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 is a bridge over / | x2 between x3 and x4; ¯cripu (rip)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 is located | x2 from x3; x1 is opposite x3; ¯ragve (rav)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 ranges / extends / spans / reaches | / over interval / gap / area x2; ¯kuspe (kup ku&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
act: x1 is an event / state / | of violence; ¯vlile (vil)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
actions: x1 is kind to x2 in | / behavior x3; ¯xendo (xed xe&#039;o)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
actions: x1 tries / attempts to do / attain x2 by | / method x3; ¯troci (roc ro&#039;i)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An alternative being considered,and shown as a second example, isto repeat the English words intheir context, marked by format tomake them easy to spot. Creatingsuch an alternative format issignificantly more cumbersome, andobviously takes a bit more spacesince the words are spelled out,but many would find it easier toread. In a dictionary, even smallpercentage changes in definitionlength can make a difference ofseveral pages in the result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the Lojban dictionary is going to be expensive to produce, brevity could make a difference it what we have to charge for the result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have a strong preference in this utility vs. cost tradeoff, make it known to us as soon as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
abdomen: x1 is a / the abdomen / belly / lower trunk of x2; ¯betfu (bef be&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
able: x1 is able to do / be / capable of doing / being x2 under conditions x3; ¯kakne (kak ka&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
above: x1 is directly above / upwards-from x2 in gravity / frame of reference x4; ¯gapru (gar)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
abrupt: x1 is sudden / abrupt / sharply changes at stage / point x2 in process / property / function x3; ¯suksa (suk)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
absolute: x1 is a fact / reality / truth, in the absolute; ¯fatci (fac)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
absorbs: x1 soaks up / absorbs / sucks up x2 from x3 into x4; ¯cokcu (cok cko co&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
abstracted: x1 is abstracted / generalized / idealized from x2 by rules x3; ¯sucta (suc)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
academy: x1 is a school / institute / academy at x2 teaching subject x3 to audience / community x4 operated by x5; ¯ckule (cu&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accessing: x1 is a street / avenue / lane / drive / cul-de-sac / way / alley / at x2 accessing x3; ¯klaji (laj)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accident: x1 is an accident / unintentional on the part of x2; x1 is an accident; ¯snuti (nut nu&#039;i)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accommodates: x1 contains / holds / encloses / accommodates / includes contents x2 within; x1 is a vessel containing x2; ¯vasru (vas vau)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accompanies: x1 is with / accompanies / is a companion of x2, in state / condition / enterprise x3; ¯kansa (kas) accompaniment: x1 dances to accompaniment x2; ¯dansu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accomplishes: x1 succeeds in / achieves / completes / accomplishes x2; ¯snada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a dimension of space / object x2 according to rules / model x3; ¯cimde&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a family / clan / tribe with members x2 bonded / tied / joined according to standard x3; ¯lanzu (laz)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is a history of x2 according to x3 / from point-of-view x3; ¯citri (cir)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is an heir to / is to inherit x2 from x3 according to rule x4; ¯cerda (ced)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is polite / courteous in matter x2 according to standard / custom x3; ¯clite (lit)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the east / eastern side of x2 according to frame of reference x3; ¯stuna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the north / northern side of x2 according to frame-of-reference x3; ¯berti (ber)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the south / southern side of x2 according to frame of reference x3; ¯snanu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is to the west / western side of x2 according to frame of reference x3; ¯stici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
according: x1 is / reflects a pattern of forms / events x2 arranged according to structure x3; ¯morna (mor mo&#039;a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
account: x1 is an account / bill / invoice for goods / services x2, billed to x3, billed by x4; ¯janta (jat ja&#039;a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accountable: x1 is responsible / accountable for x2 to judge / authority x3; ¯fuzme (fuz fu&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accruing: x1 is a profit / gain / benefit / advantage to x2 accruing / resulting from activity / process x3; ¯prali (pal)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
accuracy: x1 measures / evaluates x2 as x3 units on scale x4, with accuracy x5; ¯merli (mel mei)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
achieve: x1 helps / assists / aids object / person x2 do / achieve / maintain event / activity x3; ¯sidju (sid dju)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
achieves: x1 succeeds in / achieves / completes / accomplishes x2; ¯snada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acid: x1 is a quantity of / contains / is made of acid ofcomposition x2; x1 is acidic; ¯slami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acidic: x1 is a quantity of / contains / is made of acid of composition x2; x1 is; ¯slami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acids: x1 is a quantity of protein / albumin of type x2 composed of amino; ¯lanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acquires: x1 gets / acidic / obtains x2 from source x3; ¯cpacu (cpa)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
acrid: x1 is bitter / acrid / sharply disagreeable to x2; ¯kurki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 is a bridge over / across x2 between x3 and x4; ¯cripu (rip)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 is located across x2 from x3; x1 is opposite x3; ¯ragve (rav)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
across: x1 ranges / extends / spans / reaches across / over interval / gap / area x2; ¯kuspe (kup ku&#039;e)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
act: x1 is an event / state / act of violence; ¯vlile (vil)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
actions: x1 is kind to x2 in actions / behavior x3; ¯xendo (xed xe&#039;o)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
actions: x1 tries / attempts to do / attain x2 by actions / method x3; ¯troci (roc ro&#039;i)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==On Lojban rafsi==&lt;br /&gt;
by Lojbab&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Occasionally people new to the project have criticized Lojban&#039;s rafsi system, generally claiming that the system is overly complex or hard to learn. I contend otherwise, based on personal experience and on observation of those who have already learned the system. What may appear extremely complex and rule-bound, in practice turns out to be quite easy. The system also has the advantage that you need not learn everything at once - you can use the system while knowing only a fraction of the rules and the rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a sample of the criticism, here is Rick Harrison, commenting on the &amp;quot;conlang&amp;quot; computer mailing list:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The vast majority of constructed language enthusiasts agree that a planned language should have no allomorphs, i.e. each root-word should have only one form which should not change due to conjugation, declension, compounding, or other grammatical processes. Allomorphs increase the difficulty of memorizing a vocabulary and give no benefit in return. It appears that Loglan and Lojban suffer from rampant allomorphy. Any given 5-letter predicate might have 0, 1, 2, or 3 triliteral allomorphs to be used in compound words. Unless I am mistaken, there&#039;s no way to predict whether a given predicate has allomorphs, and if so, what those allomorphs might be; each predicate&#039;s allomorphs must be memorized.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban rafsi are the word-forms used to make compound words, and are the &#039;allomorphs&#039; that Rick is talking about. I, of course disagree with Rick&#039;s statements and his conclusions. In particular, I believe that:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;allomorphy&#039;, like many other aspects of the design of a constructed language is a design feature that may be used as a trade-off to prevent other problems or to provide other advantages. In the discussion that follows, I will present our rational, showing that Lojban&#039;s system does both;&lt;br /&gt;
* the need to clearly distinguish between a multi-word metaphor and a single word compound derived from that metaphor means that some sort of allomorphy is necessary. The only other alternative is to add an extraneous particle as glue between the components of one of these two types of concept combination (which we do in the case of le&#039;avla lujvo, but only because there is no other general solution for an arbitrary word-form that maintains unambiguity). In general such particle addition violates Zipf&#039;s Law when the compound is to be used frequently. Zipf&#039;s Law predicts that words which are frequently used will be shorter than less frequent ones. I have considerably more faith in this principle as a basis for constructed language design than I do in the purported difficulties arising from allomorphy, especially with a system like Lojban&#039;s that is carefully designed.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(One oft-recurring suggestion for change, generally by critics of the language such as Rick, has been to let the short forms serve as the roots themselves. Not only are there far too few such possible roots, but such a usage would detract from the words available for use as cmavo, the normal interpretation of a CVV form that is a separate word. In addition, short rafsi are far more densely-packed among the set of possible forms than the gismu - nearly all such short forms are used. This results in a significant loss of redundancy that would make the language harder to resolve with such condensed forms. Indeed, Lojban allows the long-form for any compound built of 5-letter rafsi, to alternate for any compound built with the shorter rafsi forms to be used equivalently with identical meaning, to reduce noisy environment redundancy problems. Finally, of course, if the short forms were the roots, there would be no capability for further shortening in conformance with Zipf&#039;s Law, and indeed either compounds or non-compound metaphors would have to be longer than the separate words that compose them.)&lt;br /&gt;
* all words in a language have to memorized eventually, if you are to achieve fluency. &#039;allomorphy&#039;, at least as used in Lojban, makes learning that vocabulary easier in general, and there are significant benefits in addition to vocabulary learning, in that you can create new words on an ad hoc basis, even when you are still a language novice, and you can usefully analyze words you don&#039;t know. The added memorization implied by the rafsi, even if you memorize every single one of them (which no one has), is but a very small percentage of the total vocabulary needed for fluent adult conversation, but provides immediate benefit for even small amounts of learning.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The first time you see a compound, you will probably take it apart. Perhaps even the first few times. But you cannot become even moderately fluent in any language if you need to analyze the etymology of every word you want to read, speak, or understand. Words that occur at all frequently must be internalized as a unit of meaning. If there are 50,000 concepts that are needed for adult conversation (a reasonable guess), then you will need to memorize 50,000 words, at one word per concept. This number cannot be reduced, except by polysemy (one word representing multiple concepts), and I cannot see Rick or anyone arguing that polysemy makes learning a language easier.&lt;br /&gt;
* there is indeed a way to predict whether a Lojban root has rafsi, and there are constraints that greatly limit what those rafsi might be. In addition, because the assignment of rafsi is maximized, almost every possible rafsi has some meaning. This has the result that every rafsi that you learn to associate with its gismu reduces the possibilities for other words. This makes learning the others easier, and by the time you&#039;ve learned even 1/2 the rafsi (or maybe less if they&#039;re the right ones), you can generally guess the rest as you need them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me discuss the rationale, first. Lojban lujvo, or compound words, represent the myriad of predicate relations that are not reflected in the gismu roots. As predicate words in Lojban (as opposed to tanru, the phrases from which lujvo are often derived), they each have a unique meaning (and associated place structure). This meaning need not be memorized by the Lojban learner - the rafsi system allows you to unambiguously take the word apart to see the tanru components that went into building the compound. You may then assume that the compound represents the most common and/or most plausible interpretation of that phrase, and you will rarely be incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, as you come to know more and more of the rafsi through using the language, you become less and less dependent on a dictionary or word list to help you understand new words as you come across them. The ability to dispense with a dictionary in everyday Lojban use is the major goal and benefit of the rafsi system - it is virtually impossible to achieve fluency in a language until you are willing and able to try to use it spontaneously without looking words up that you don&#039;t know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ability to do without a dictionary offers a major advantage in the growth of the Lojban vocabulary, a critical aspect of the language&#039;s first years. Lojbanists, whether new or experienced, can create new words on an ad hoc basis while speaking and writing, using the rafsi system to do so quickly and easily. Doing so, you know that for a given concept represented by a tanru, there is only one lujvo structure that will represent that concept. You won&#039;t be inventing a word only to find out later that someone else expressed the same tanru concept in a different form, and that their version is right and your version is wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The system of rafsi replaced an earlier Loglan system (changed in 1982) wherein compounds were formed by mashing parts of each component together without a system, with the result that you could only guess what components went into making a lujvo. The only requirement was that the resulting compound had to be 2 mod 3 characters long.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The learning problem proved severe when people actually tried to both learn the existing compounds and to make new compounds, after the first printed dictionary came out in 1975. The specific solution embedded in Lojban took 5 years to develop (1978-82), with experimentation at several steps along the way (involving many people, though unfortunately almost all native English speakers). The design you see today was not adopted lightly. Several other changes in the phonology and the morphology were also made at the same time, with all designed to mutually consistent with each other and with the goals of the language. Thus the system of rafsi was not a patchwork ad-hoc solution that doesn&#039;t fit the rest of the language - it is an integral part of the system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the old system, when composing a new lujvo, there were a large number of possible forms for combining the gismu components, and you would have had to look each of them up to make sure that the word had not been already created. Even if it had not been already made (and since dictionaries are inherent outdated in this respect by the time they are published, you would not be certain), you would then look up your proposed compound, to make sure that it had not been already used to represent a different, unrelated tanru. As such, mastering these early versions of the language effectively required you to memorize words in order to learn and use them, with relatively minor and undependable clues in the word-form to aid in your recognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the current Lojban system, the situation is reversed. You only memorize those lujvo which you find yourself using often (in which case you memorize them simply by using them often enough that they come to mind without thinking about it). You invent new words on an ad hoc basis, knowing that someone else independently inventing a word for the same concept will likely end up with the same word, but that in any case, the word you invent will almost certainly be correct, in that it will not represent any concept other than the one you have in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Briefly reviewing the Lojban rafsi system, each Lojban gismu has between 2 and 5 combining forms. Two of these are trivially and uniquely determined. The gismu itself may be used as its own combining form when it is in the final position of the lujvo. In addition, there is a related 4letter form, obtained by dropping the final vowel from the gismu, which may be used in any non-final position, by gluing it on to the following component with a &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; (pronounced as a schwa, the final sound in the English word &amp;quot;sofa&amp;quot;). Since no two gismu concepts differ only in the final vowel, this means that each concept has two combining forms, which can always be used in forming compounds that can be uniquely broken down to recognize the components.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using only these two &#039;long&#039; rafsi forms, the 4-letter and the full 5-letter gismu form, the beginning Lojbanist can use the full expressive power of the language, while memorizing no rafsi. There are no exceptions to these rules, and no complications, and the resulting word, (called the &#039;unreduced form&#039;) is always correct and acceptable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The complications arise only when you become a more advanced student of the language. When you can speak and write in a language quickly, you don&#039;t want really long words for relatively simple concepts. It is fairly common to devise lujvo made up of 4 (or more) components, sometime for concepts that are used every day. Most people would be unsatisfied with a language that required them to use a 20-letter word with 8 syllables for a very common concept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, an analysis of natural languages called Zipf&#039;s Law indicates that the length of words in actual use is inversely related to their frequency of use - the most frequently used words in a language are the shortest ones, and long words are rarely used. In languages such as English, when a commonly expressed concept is represented by a long word or phrase, common usage turns it into a contraction (like &amp;quot;didn&#039;t&amp;quot;, or into an acronym or abbreviation. Examples include &amp;quot;TV&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;television&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;TB&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;tuberculosis&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ASAP&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;as soon as possible&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;CIA&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;Central Intelligence Agency&amp;quot;, reducing 9 syllables to only 3). It is believed by many linguists that the multitude of declensions and conjugations found in languages today are the remnants of earlier contractions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that such acronyms as &amp;quot;TV&amp;quot; lose significant information about word meaning available in longer forms. &amp;quot;Television&amp;quot;, for those who know the Latin roots that formed the word, reveals some aspects of the word&#039;s meaning; &amp;quot;TV&amp;quot; does not. &amp;quot;CIA&amp;quot; can stand for a variety of longer expressions, and there is no clue except context to indicate that a government organization is the intended meaning. A common English word that is apparently a short form, &amp;quot;OK&amp;quot;, has completely lost its origin (leaving only unconfirmable speculations). When that happens, these compounds become like roots in themselves that must be memorized separately. This increases the difficulty of language learning, unacceptable in a constructed language like Loglan/ Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To relieve this pressure for short forms for common words, those Lojban gismu which have been found most useful in compounds have been assigned additional 3-letter short rafsi. A Lojban word may have up to one of each of the following forms: a CVC-form, a CVV-form, and/or a CCV-form, where C and V stand for consonants and vowels that are found in the source word. These short-forms may be preferred because they combine to form shorter words, sometimes with fewer syllables, than the 4-letter and 5-letter rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result, therefore, more than one rafsi may be used to represent a gismu/concept in making a compound, since the 4- and 5- letter forms still exist. In addition, because these shorter forms are found in other words, or even standing alone as words (cmavo) in themselves in the case of CVV forms, you need to have rules that prevent the compounds from breaking up incorrectly. Language design decisions force tradeoffs between the need to maximize the number of words that can be contracted and the requirement to retain the integrity of the compounds that are formed and the ability to break them down into recognizable meaning components.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The nature of the sounds that make up words, and the imperfections in human speech and hearing give rise to further complication in a system of word compression. Certain sounds, when adjacent to each other may provoke mispronunciation or may be misheard by a listener. Linguists also know that certain sound combinations tend to be unstable and to change with time. In designing Lojban, we had to plan ahead to avoid combinations that would likely lead to the Lojban of 2100 being significantly different from the Lojban of the first dictionary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of these tradeoffs have been dealt with in the current Lojban design; yet the rules for lujvo-making remain relatively simple. Some rafsi are forbidden in some word positions. Depending on word-position and adjacent rafsi, you may have to add a &amp;quot;hyphen&amp;quot; letter to make a word pronounceable, or to keep the sounds from breaking up into two words when heard by a listener.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the rules are too difficult for your level of proficiency, you always can fall back to the long form rafsi mentioned above. You can do so because a firm rule of the Lojban design is that, if there is more than one possible rafsi combining form, the choice of form does not affect the resulting meaning. The shortest form of a word means the same as the long form. An English example where this is true is &amp;quot;television&amp;quot;, which can be seen as a short form of the two components &amp;quot;tele&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;vision&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;TV&amp;quot;, a further shortening of the same components is taken as identical in meaning to &amp;quot;television&amp;quot;. This invariance is true for all Lojban compounds, even when dozens of possible shortened forms are possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dozens of forms can be possible when more than one short rafsi is assigned to a gismu. We want to assign multiple short forms, because the effects of sound interactions and the Lojban word-formation rules may prevent one particular rafsi from being used in some situations. Thus an additional short rafsi increases the likelihood that some short form is possible in a particular difficult combination; it also may mean that in other combinations where there are no sound restrictions, you will have a multitude of choices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, the rule that all of these choices will have a single common meaning means most of them will never be used. Probably only the longest form (which will be used by language beginners) and the shortest form will be used. If there is more than one &#039;shortest form&#039;, different people may choose different ones are preferable for a while, but usage will relatively quickly tend to settle on one of the choices. We have defined a formal scoring rules to help people pick the form that is most likely to be settled on, but it is not necessary to use it - choose the form that sounds best to you and others may agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me now turn to a Lojban example. Following is a long compound that has appeared in Lojban text:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 nolraitruti&#039;u (5 syllables)&lt;br /&gt;
 nol-rai-tru-ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 nobli-traji-turni-tixnu&lt;br /&gt;
 noble+superlative+govern+daughter&lt;br /&gt;
 (princess - specifically the daughter of a king/queen, as opposed to Princess Di of the UK)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If there were no short forms, this word would have to be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 noblytrajyturnytixnu (8 syllables)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given that it is desired that you expect to memorize the Lojban word, learning it as a unitary word rather than by puzzling it together every time from its components, it should be obvious that the shorter word &amp;quot;nolraitruti&#039;u&amp;quot; is better than the longer one. If you lived in a country with royalty such as the UK that had such a princess (as Elizabeth was before she became queen) and were prone to reading, writing, and talking about such a princess a lot, which word would you prefer to say or write?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I argue that &amp;quot;princess&amp;quot; is not that infrequent a concept, certainly deserving of a single word. The British, so I understand, do make distinctions between the various types of princess, at least in terms of how they are titled, so that the distinction is socially and linguistically important. Lojban must have separate words if there are clearly two separate concepts, as there are in this case (the &#039;Di&#039; variety of princess might be 5 terms: noble-superlative-governor-son-spouse).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The longer 8-syllable form is permitted as an alternative to the short form, and might be used either in noisy environments where the longer word has all those extra sounds as redundancy checks, or by beginners who have not yet memorized the short rafsi or the compound, and are creating the compound on the fly (as this word has been created every time it has been used thus far since we have no dictionary nor people who have memorized such words). The long forms are of course needed when the words are not compounded, or you would not be able to tell a compound from a root from a structure word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Loglan/Lojban has reached what I believe is an optimal tradeoff between redundancy and brevity, ease of learning and unambiguity of the morphology. If other solutions exist, they are unlikely to meet all the goals for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let me now turn to two hidden assumptions that Rick and others make when criticizing Lojban, assumptions I believe are incorrect:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# that there is a way of reducing the amount of memorization needed to gain fluency in a conlang below some arbitrary minimum, and&lt;br /&gt;
# that memorizing allomorphs is difficult.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming that the set of thoughts that might be expressed linguistically should be about the same, regardless of the language, there are only so many options available for expressing those thoughts. If there is &#039;one word per concept&#039;, then a speaker must have memorized a separate word for each concept in order to achieve fluency. If polysemy exists, then speaker has an added burden: to memorize a somewhat smaller set of words, but to also memorize the multiple meanings of those words (including meanings he may rarely use) and some means of pragmatically distinguishing which meaning is intended.&lt;br /&gt;
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There&#039;s no way around this. Fluent speakers don&#039;t often invent words or even derive new prefix/suffix formations when conversing. Productive language formation (i.e. inventing new words) takes time to think, and taking that time in the middle of a conversation breaks up fluency. There is some minimum amount that must be learned, even in the most regular of conlangs; no design trick can reduce this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For a given language, for each concept you expect to talk or hear about in fluent speech, you must learn 1) at least one word for the concept, 2) the association of that word with that specific concept, and not to other concepts (including false friends from the native language), 3) any other meanings or usages associated with that word, including both polysemy and pragmatic considerations (what phrases may be appended to sentences using that word, etc. For example, if you stick an object on an intransitive verb &amp;quot;*I sit the store&amp;quot;, or attach certain prepositional phrases to a word that doesn&#039;t expect them &amp;quot;*I give from Mary across the store&amp;quot; you get nonsense in any language, ungrammatical garbage in most of them.) It takes memorization to turn words into sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, for people who are really going to use a language, the only thing you can do is ease the memorization process to make it easier to do that required memorization, to get from novice to fluency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One way - the most frequent among conlang inventors - is to build lots of memory hooks to some natural language(s). In doing so, you risk semantics transfer that might make your conlang not truly an independent language. An example of this problem is the oft-heard debate about the Esperanto prefix &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot; which in that language means &amp;quot;opposite of&amp;quot;, but in many European languages means &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot;. People native to those languages seem to often complain about &#039;derogative&#039; implications of words containing &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;, when such implications are not part of Esperanto in any way. You can&#039;t avoid this kind of problem - all languages will have &#039;false friends&#039; that mislead you in learning similar-appearing new words in a new language. You can minimize it through other methods of aiding the learning process.&lt;br /&gt;
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One way, occurring in Esperanto, is the use of affixes (such as &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;) that modify meanings of words in certain semi-regular ways. Thus, by learning a few words and these few productive affixes, you multiply the vocabulary that results from memorization. New people then learn from seeing words that they can easily decompose - after seeing these words over and over, they suddenly find that they know both the word-formation rules, the affixes, and the compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban in effect carries the Esperanto technique to the ultimate extreme. Rather than a couple dozen short affixes, we allow every root to have an affix, and then make those affixes resemble the roots in very regular ways. For all Loj-ban lujvo, you automatically know that any resemblances to words of other languages are accidental, since those lujvo are always composite of simpler words in Lojban and are not derived from any other language.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for the second assumption, I assert that Rick is wrong, and that&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: A very regular conlang can have allomorphs that are easy to memorize and Lojban has such a system that actually makes compound words more learnable than they might otherwise be.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are three parts to my argument on this point:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# the nature of &#039;memorizing&#039; of a word is non-trivial in the first place;&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban&#039;s system is designed to provide differing aids to the novice, the experienced learner, and the expert Lojbanist, allowing the different levels of skill to concentrate on those aspects of word &#039;memorizing&#039; that are easiest for their skill level and most productive for them;&lt;br /&gt;
# the Lojban allomorphs, being made in predictable ways from the gismu are relatively easy to memorize.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are two phases to memorizing a word. In the Lojban literature, we call these phases &amp;quot;recognition&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;recall&amp;quot;. In recognition, the goal is to look at a word, and be able to recognize its conceptual meaning. In recall, you must be able to go from a concept in-mind, and determine the word that represents that concept.&lt;br /&gt;
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Recognition is by far the easier of the two skills to master, and it is the most important for the new Lojban learner. Such a new learner will probably be reading far more Lojban text than he/she will write (or if learning verbally, will hear far more than he/she speaks). When learning to recognize words in a foreign language, you can rely on aspects of the word that you are trying to learn that in some way remind you of a corresponding word in the other language.&lt;br /&gt;
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As evidence for the difference in difficulty, people using our software tool &#039;LogFlash&#039; will practice &#039;recognition&#039; of a Lojban gismu, and must get it correct 3 times correctly before they attempt &#039;recall&#039;. Depending on individual skill at learning, and the amount of time spent studying in advance of a first test, a Lojbanist will range from 20% to perhaps 70% correct. However, having gotten a word correct once, the minimum score for the 2nd attempt ranges from 60% to 90% correct, and the 3rd time after two correct recognitions in a row, results in over 90% correct (most errors are typos). However, the first recall attempt, which follows the 3 successful recognitions, tends to range from only 30% to 70% again, almost as if learning to recognize the word gave absolutely no advantage to learning to recall it. (Words successfully recalled once are recalled 90% correctly on the next recall attempt. However, recall skill decays relatively quickly without practice, dropping to the original 30-70% level within a couple of weeks if there have been only two test sessions. Recognition skill drops off much more slowly.&lt;br /&gt;
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As applied to the rafsi components of lujvo, given no clues to meaning from context, the early Lojban student will still quickly gain the ability to recognize and identify the meaning of the rafsi after having to look it up a couple of times. In reality, of course, context clues may tell you what a word must mean, allowing you to recognize the components, which contribute to that meaning, even more easily. Since the early Lojban student must recognize far more words (and hence rafsi) than he must recall or generate, this is the key skill at this early stage.&lt;br /&gt;
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At this stage, a Lojbanist generally knows few gismu or rafsi, so he/she will tend to learn them in tandem. Since the rafsi closely resemble their corresponding gismu (as I&#039;ll explain below), learning gismu helps in learning the corresponding rafsi and vice versa. Simpler Lojban texts will probably have a higher percentage of gismu than more advanced texts, and thus more words can be simply looked up in the word lists. (When the dictionary is available, I suspect that simpler texts will tend to rely more on words in the published vocabulary than on coining of new words.)&lt;br /&gt;
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From the recognition standpoint, the lujvo-making algorithm is incredibly simple. Break a lujvo at every &#039;y&#039;, dropping the &#039;y&#039;s, then break all remaining chunks of more than 5 letters by removing 3 letter chunks from the front. You will be left with 3 letter pieces, which of course are short rafsi, at most one 5 letter piece at the end of the word, which is a well-formed gismu, and 4-letter pieces which are gismu missing their final vowel, which can be trivially identified in a gismu list. (While le&#039;avla borrowings are rare, especially in beginning texts, they can be most readily identified either by a 3-or-more letter consonant cluster with a syllabic &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; after the first 3 letters - the classifier rafsi - or more simply by the fact that they fail to break down into 3 and 5 letter chunks that are all valid rafsi, as described above. le&#039;avla never contain a &#039;y&#039;, so 4-letter rafsi will not occur.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As you start to write in the language, you will already know a few gismu from reading, and maybe a few rafsi. You then have to learn to make lujvo. Initially, this can be done using long-form rafsi, with no complications. Learning long-form rafsi is equivalent to learning gismu, so no memorization is being wasted on this stage. Ideally you will memorize all of the gismu, or at least most of them. Your continued reading will teach you some shorter rafsi, because you&#039;ve looked them up enough times that you no longer need to do so. These are probably going to be the most common rafsi, the ones that you will most likely need earliest in your own efforts to coin lujvo. You will also acquire a fairly instinctive feel for the conditions under which &#039;y&#039; is inserted to break up impermissible consonant clusters in lujvo, but the written rules are clearly and formally stated for cases that aren&#039;t obvious. As a learner, if you insert an extra &#039;y&#039; in error, you will be understood; the occasions where extra &#039;y&#039;s cause word breakup problems are extremely rare, and only affect fluent speech streams of spoken Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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By the time you know most of the gismu, through LogFlash or by some other learning technique, you will already have recognition control on many rafsi, and perhaps even recall of a few of them. Only then is it worthwhile to start memorizing rafsi directly, and at that point it becomes quite easy to do so.&lt;br /&gt;
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Look first at recognition. When you know almost all of the gismu, then for any given rafsi, you probably can identify all of the gismu it could represent (about 1/4 of the rafsi can only stand for one possible gismu, and many of the rest have only 2 or 3 possibilities). But since no gismu has more than one of each of the different forms of 3-letter rafsi, you will be able to eliminate some of the possibilities because you know another rafsi for that word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Recall of rafsi is made easier by the fact that, for any given gismu, there are only a few possible rafsi, and no more than one of each of the forms. A CVCCV gismu (form C1V1C2C3V2) must have rafsi from among the 5 forms CVC {C1V1C2 or C1V1C3}, CVV {C1V1V2, with or without the apostrophe between the vowels}, and CCV {C2C3V2 or rarely C1C2V1 and the consonant cluster must be a permissible initial}. (By the time it becomes a factor, you will have learned which letter combinations are not permissible initials, since there no Lojban words start with them). A CCVCV gismu (form C1C2V1C3V2) must choose rafsi from among CVC {C1V1C3 or C2V2C3}, CVV {C1V1V2 or C2V1V2, with or without the apostrophe between the vowels}, and CCV {C1C2V1 and the consonant cluster must be a permissible initial}. In other words, up to 3 from among 5 possibilities, and you can eliminate any possibilities that you know are assigned to other words. You don&#039;t need to know all of the rafsi for a given word at first, since you can always use the long forms till you are sure of the short forms. Thus, you use what you know, and acquire new rafsi as you need them. Of course, every rafsi you can recall, you can almost certainly also recognize.&lt;br /&gt;
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As an example, take the gismu &amp;quot;bangu&amp;quot; The possible rafsi are &amp;quot;ban&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bag&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bau&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ba&#039;u&amp;quot; (the 2 CCV forms bna and ngu are ruled out because of impermissible initials). There can be only 1 CVC and only one CVV rafsi, so &amp;quot;bangu&amp;quot; has at most 2 rafsi. It turns out that they are:&lt;br /&gt;
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 bangu ban C1V1C2 (CVC) language&lt;br /&gt;
       bau C1V1V2 (CVV)&lt;br /&gt;
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and readers of this article have probably already learned the &amp;quot;ban&amp;quot; rafsi, since it occurs in the name of the language, Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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It should be easily seen in this example that the more rafsi you actually do know, the easy it becomes to learn the rest. You have a closed set of three-letter forms, nearly all of which has a meaning. By the time you know a third of the rafsi, a 1/4 guess becomes a 1/2 guess. By the time you know 2/3 of the rafsi, you probably can deduce 90% of them without a word list, because you can determine so many by elimination of alternatives.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, learning the rafsi helps you cement in your knowledge of the gismu themselves. If you know &#039;bau&#039; is a rafsi for the word for &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; (bangu), you know that C1 is b, V1 is a, and V2 is u. This rather reduces the burden of learning the other two letters. If you know the other rafsi is &amp;quot;ban&amp;quot;, then you know that either C2 or C3 is &#039;n&#039;, and you can almost certainly guess the word at that point. (In speech you can probably get away with slurring over the other consonant and the listener will guess what word you wanted from context.)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Revised rafsi Assignments==&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban rafsi list, the set of affixes associated with the various gismu and a few cmavo, has explicitly not been baselined along with the gismu list during the last few years. This is because the initial assignment of rafsi was based on merely educated guesses on what was needed, with some highly suspect data as the basis for those guesses. The intent has been to wait as long as feasible to build a data base of actual lujvo-making usage before making the assignments permanent. The rafsi assignment list has been exceptionally stable over the intervening years partly to encourage lujvo-making, and partly because there was no bona fide basis to make judgements about rafsi needs without usage data.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, with the impending dictionary publication, we want to have rafsi assignments with a greater confidence of adequacy and stability. Indeed, the publication of a dictionary that we hope to be able to sell in book form for a few years requires that we baseline the list. The tradition in Lojban design has been to have a thorough review immediately prior to any baseline decision. This report describes the results of such a review.&lt;br /&gt;
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In July and August of 1992, the complete set of rafsi was reanalyzed based on the 4 years of actual usage since the original analysis. Because of new data, the report proposed many changes to the set of rafsi. These changes were reviewed by a committee from the community, and almost half the changes were thrown out at least partially in the interest of language conservatism.&lt;br /&gt;
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With this rafsi retuning and recent re-examinations of all Lojban gismu place structures, all aspects of the Lojban design will have had two or more separate thorough reviews, separated significantly in time, to ensure that the design can stand the test of time. While the proposed changes are a fairly high percentage of the total set of rafsi assignments, the set of assignments seems to me (who knows the set of rafsi best, to be much the same as it was before.&lt;br /&gt;
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For both efforts at assigning Lojban rafsi, they have been assigned using a method developed by JCB for old Loglan during the 1979-82 timeframe, and described in TLI publication &amp;quot;Notebook 2&amp;quot;, believed to be out-of-print; the document was not all that useful, mainly being a 200-page catalog of supporting data for what I describe much more briefly here without such complete data. JCB called his process &#039;tuning&#039; the rafsi list, or &#039;optimizing&#039; it for &#039;coverage&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Coverage&#039; refers to the extent to which words are used in lujvo compounds, which is of course the major use of rafsi (they are also used to a more limited extent in names and le&#039;avla borrowings, the latter of which has been taken into account in my latest review, as noted below). The goal is to ensure that a maximal percentage of Lojban lujvo compounds can be composed from &#039;short&#039; (CVC, CCV, or CVV/CV&#039;V form) rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
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This goal is based on the paradigm known as Zipf&#039;s Law, which has been fully embraced by the Loglan design for at least the last two decades. The Loglan/Lojban paradigm actually goes beyond the &#039;law&#039; as inferred by Zipf, which merely observed a tendency in language and other phenomena to inversely relate length of a phenomenon to frequency. As the original law is descriptive rather than prescriptive, it has been questioned on occasion as a design principle for Loglan. I do not intend to defend this design principle, merely to state that it is a central tenet of the Lojban design philosophy in accordance with our policy of following JCB&#039;s central design tenets for Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Applying Zipf&#039;s Law to Loglan design, we have assumed that the law will, whether we allow for it or not, govern the evolution of the language as it becomes used widely in less-controlled circumstances as we expect in the future. We want to try to see where the language will end up (presumably in a state consistent with Zipf&#039;s Law), and design features into the language that will allow for that evolution to take place smoothly, without actually needing to change the language design when it occurs. To the extent that we can foresee the future of the language, we want to make the changes now, and not later, when people have already learned the vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
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One result suggested by Zipf&#039;s Law is that words of greater frequency in usage tend to be shorter. If a word comes into greater use, it is observed that it becomes shortened, either by natural word compression. Such compression might include the compression of sounds as in &amp;quot;cannot&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;can&#039;t&amp;quot;, or the tying words together in compounds like lujvo rather than leaving them as longer tanru (e.g. the English lujvo &amp;quot;grandfather&amp;quot; - interesting in that many pronounce it with a silent &#039;d&#039; as Zipf appears to continue to shorten the word after its written form has been frozen in spelling). Similar processes include the use of acronyms, a phenomenon which Lojban supports but tries to discourage.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now there are other reasons for making lujvo other than merely frequency of usage. One obvious reason is to get a more useful place structure, whereas a tanru has the place structure of the final term. But the inherent unpredictability of lujvo place structures (notwithstanding various proposals for regularizing them) means that most lujvo will be made because someone sees that the word/concept in question will be used multiple times in multiple contexts, and hence justifies being thought of as a &#039;word&#039;, rather than a phrase.&lt;br /&gt;
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At this stage there is not a lot of a priori decision making going on regarding lujvo-making. People usually make lujvo when the concept is expressed by a single word in the language they are translating from. But this is a valid practice, and indeed is most common when compounds are &#039;borrowed&#039; from other languages, a process called &#039;loan translation&#039;. Of course, not all Lojban lujvo that have been proposed correspond to single words in other languages, so even at this point, Lojban is evidencing its own trends in concept/ word formation independent of other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is presumed that under Zipf&#039;s Law most people will make lujvo to cover concepts of higher frequency, leaving as phrases those concepts that occur once, or in specific, isolated, context-dependent situations. Thus JCB put a priority on making gismu and lujvo to represent concepts found in the one generally recognized cross-language study of the use of concepts in languages (as opposed to words), Helen Eaton&#039;s study from the 1920s and 1930s. Unfortunately that study is outdated, and its association with 4 European languages makes this data questionable as the sole basis for a modern language design. Now that we have actual Lojban usage to include in the design evaluation, for the first time we can downgrade the importance of Eaton&#039;s study.&lt;br /&gt;
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History of the Loglan/Lojban rafsi system - The use of rafsi in languages, including conlangs, is not particularly controversial. Esperanto, for example, has a wide variety of prefixes and suffixes which operate roughly as Loglan&#039;s rafsi do. The extent to which Loglan/Lojban uses and indeed depends on rafsi may be more controversial.&lt;br /&gt;
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Pre-1982 Loglan had haphazard compound formation, with the effect that compressed compounds had a structure such that etymology and hence implied meaning could not be elicited from the word. As a result, the &#039;correct form&#039; of a compound had to be memorized, and to a great extent, a given compound could be looked at with relatively little possibility of recognition of its compound nature or of its implied meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
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The GMR (Great Morphological Revolution) redesign in 1978-1982 incorporated the concept of &#039;resolvable affixes&#039; (rafsi) such that the fact that a word is a compound could be recognized on sight, and the nature of its etymology and hence significant clues as to its meaning could be recognized by identifying the rafsi of which the word was composed. In the spirit of Loglan&#039;s design, resolvable affixes were to be unambiguously assigned to specific gismu roots, so that recognizing the rafsi identified a unique etymology, and rules that allowed a compound to be unambiguously recognized as being composed of these, and only these, rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan/Lojban design now allows for both &#039;long&#039; and &#039;short&#039; rafsi. Long rafsi are identical to the basic gismu (all of CVCCV or CCVCV form) for final position in a compound only or have the final vowel replaced by a &#039;y&#039; (pronounced as a schwa) in non-final positions. Thus the long form of a compound for &amp;quot;broda brode&amp;quot; will be &amp;quot;brodybrode&amp;quot;. (The &#039;example&#039; gismu &amp;quot;brodV&amp;quot; are the only gismu in the language that share the same final vowel and hence have ambiguous lujvo compounds - but then they are used most often for making examples. The current reanalysis has given a limited alternative to this ambiguity for those rare usages of these that are non-exemplary).&lt;br /&gt;
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It must be clearly understood that there is no guarantee that a lujvo compound means exactly what one would infer from the source metaphor. Language use is rather too chaotic to assume that. Indeed, Lojban policy is to assume that the source metaphor is ambiguous and context-dependent, whereas upon adopting a shorter compound form, that form becomes a single word in its own right with a unique meaning and place structure like all other Lojban content words (brivla).&lt;br /&gt;
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Zipf&#039;s Law, plus this distinction between metaphor and compound, require that the compounds be both shorter than and distinguishable from the source metaphor. All Lojban gismu can form long-form compounds of this sort; the use of &#039;y&#039; replacement in non-final rafsi assures that there is unique resolution, while also ensuring that the words do not fall apart. In accordance with Zipf&#039;s Law, all such compounds are at least trivially shorter than the uncompressed &#039;metaphor&#039; (tanru) from which they are formed. If short rafsi exist, the compound can be shorter still.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since all Loglan rafsi occur only in bound forms (inside compounds), it was recognized that some shorter forms than the five-letter rafsi could be used. Unambiguous word-resolution limited this set of shorter rafsi to CVC, CCV, and CVV forms, where in Lojban a VV pair might be one of the four primary diphthongs or a disyllable vowel pair (which is marked with an apostrophe &#039; to indicate a devoiced, non-glottal-stop glide, which English speakers usually approximate with an &#039;h&#039; sound.) Older Loglan forms do not have the distinction between a diphthong (such as &amp;quot;oi&amp;quot;) and its corresponding divowel form (&amp;quot;o&#039;i&amp;quot;, pronounced as in &amp;quot;toe heel&amp;quot;), hence have fewer possible CVV rafsi. (Note that the CVV rafsi are totally unrelated to the CVV-form cmavo. The rafsi occur only in bound form, and the rules for lujvo-making mean that the rafsi can never be heard as separate words. In some cases, a rafsi may have a meaning related to that of the cmavo spelled the same way (and this is recognized as a good memory hook to aid in learning the words), but such matches occur only because the cmavo assignments were also chosen where possible to be associated with gismu which would suggest the cmavo&#039;s meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since all gismu in the language are considered one part of speech and syntactically identical, it is a language requirement that all gismu be allowed to serve in all positions within compounds; we cannot have a limited set that is more &#039;worthy&#039; of use as prefixes or suffixes in compounds. We can use Zipf&#039;s Law to assign short rafsi based on other factors, the minimum requirement that all gismu have combining forms for all positions sets the dictum justifying the universal availability of 4-letter + &#039;y&#039; and 5-letter, &#039;long-form rafsi&#039; that can be used for any gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
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Given the current rules for Lojban sounds and word-making forms, There are 1445 possible Lojban CVC rafsi, 493 CVV rafsi, and 240 CCV rafsi. The rules for combining these compounds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* forbid a CVC rafsi in final position;&lt;br /&gt;
* require a &#039;y&#039; inserted between rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
** when they are conjoined so as to result in certain &#039;proscribed medial consonant clusters&#039;;&lt;br /&gt;
** to prevent &#039;assimilation&#039; that would make it hard to distinguish that combination from some other combination;&lt;br /&gt;
** as glue in two other special circumstances where a compound might break up into smaller pieces;&lt;br /&gt;
* require a syllabic &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; (rules determine which is used) to glue on a CVV rafsi in first position where it might &#039;fall off&#039; in spoken contexts and be mistaken for a separate unrelated structure word (cmavo) of the same CVV form. (CVV rafsi do not need to be glued on the front only in a two-part lujvo where the final term is a CCV rafsi, because the Lojban&#039;s penultimate stress rules hold the pieces together).&lt;br /&gt;
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Including current new word proposals, there are 1342 Lojban root words, and 93 cmavo that are useful in delineating meanings of compounds that are also given short rafsi (where possible the rafsi is the same as the cmavo, but this isn&#039;t always possible.) Since there are only 733 rafsi that can be used in final position (CVV and CCV forms), it is not possible to assign such a short rafsi to each root, in spite of the theory that permits any of them to appear in final position. Because Loglan/Lojban words were created based on recognition scores in source natural languages, they are not uniformly spread around the alphabet. We wanted to make the rafsi set easily learnable, so we limited the set of possible rafsi for a given gismu to specific permutations built from certain letters of the word. Thus for &amp;quot;broda&amp;quot;, possible rafsi include only -bod-, -rod-, -bro-, -bo&#039;a-, and ro&#039;a-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In some cases, there&#039;s no trouble assigning a rafsi to a gismu - there is only one gismu with the letters permitting use of the rafsi given the rules for deriving possible rafsi. This determines perhaps 550 rafsi in the first pass (1 in 3.5 of the CVC rafsi, 1 in 5 of the CVV rafsi, and 1 in 6 of the CCV rafsi). But given that no gismu could have more than one of a given type of rafsi, and some simplifying assumptions (such as noting that a gismu having a CCV did not need a CVC or a CVV rafsi, especially if it would prevent another from using that rafsi), another 500 rafsi are trivially decided, perhaps 1/2 of the total.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand there were some rafsi that are extremely difficult to assign. In the recent retuning, for example, there were 33 competitor-words that could use -ci&#039;a-, and 33 for the two possibilities -sai- and - sa&#039;i-, while as many as 500 rafsi (mostly CVC, but nearly 100 of the more valuable final position rafsi) could not be used by any gismu. Only reinventing significant numbers of gismu, choosing lower recognition score word-forms could significantly improve this maldistribution, and such a change would not be considered under our baseline policy. (Only one gismu has previously been reinvented to get a usable final position rafsi, mleca, meaning &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;. As part of this retuning, the gismu for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; is being changed to &amp;quot;donri&amp;quot; to allow it a good rafsi. This second change was considered only because the word was added to the set of gismu so recently, that it is not on the published gismu list, and hence is little known.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of the limited set of rafsi, we want to make the rafsi assignments optimal for our word set, so as to minimize the length of compounds formed in accordance with Zipf&#039;s Law (presumed to be most of them). This means that we have to &#039;tune&#039; the set of assignments based on some type of usage statistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When we first assigned rafsi in 1987-8 after constructing the gismu roots, there were no usage statistics. Older versions of Loglan had been used in only very scattered bits of text, and were based on a set of only around 900 gismu roots, including a bunch that were judged inappropriate as &#039;basic roots&#039; like words for &#039;billiards&#039; and &#039;football&#039;, and were hence not retained into Lojban. Most of these words had been used in a set of predefined compounds JCB&#039;s 1974-5 dictionary chosen because they represented the most common concepts in 4 European languages (based on Helen Eaton&#039;s study). This data is suspect of being both European-biased and outdated, though no better study is known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The metaphors underlying the 1974-5 compounds were often culturally biased, and relied on English-language based conventions unrelated to the Loglan words they were built on. Classic bad examples of underlying metaphors in that dictionary include &amp;quot;man-do&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;to man a ship&amp;quot; (which can easily be done by a woman, and has no functional association with manhood), and the word for &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; (now a Lojban root), based on &amp;quot;dead-make&amp;quot; where the word for &amp;quot;make&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;x constructs y from components/materials z&amp;quot; (meanwhile ignoring the 4 completely different Loglan words for indicating causality). Indeed &amp;quot;- make&amp;quot; was used in some 500 compounds, and non-specific &amp;quot;-do&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-cause&amp;quot; (associated with only one of the 4 causality words) in several hundred more each, making a substantial part of the old Loglan vocabulary rather restricted in semantic variation. The Lojban vocabulary is intended to be far more analytical in terms of the Lojban meanings of the words, and current actual usage ranges over a much wider variety of roots. But the older Loglan data necessarily dominated our initial rafsi assignments.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our other source of data besides JCB&#039;s dictionary were words invented by Loglanists, either in efforts to cover the rest of Eaton&#039;s word lists, or to cover concepts not in the dictionary that were needed by people in the few texts in Loglan that were attempted. These were generally either patterned on the already poor examples in the 1974-45 dictionary, or, even worse, were built on haphazard ad-hoc methodologies generally in ignorance of the rules for compound-making that had been set down. These included the much lambasted (for obvious reasons) &amp;quot;dog-woman&amp;quot; for the pejorative equivalent of English &amp;quot;bitch&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;one-future-one&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;in sequence&amp;quot; (&#039;one&#039; is a cmavo and had no final position rafsi, so the word-inventor just used the CV-form cmavo, resulting in an illegal word), and &amp;quot;water-pass_ through-skin&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;sweat&amp;quot; (the latter uses the worst possible term order; Loglan grouping would lead one to expect the metaphor to refer to a kind of skin, whereas the English verb &amp;quot;to sweat&amp;quot; might be a kind of &#039;passing-through&#039;, and the English noun &#039;sweat&#039; might be a kind of &#039;water&#039;). There was of course no frequency data for any of these words, other than the frequency inferred from Eaton&#039;s list for that subset, which basically implied that all such &#039;Eaton words&#039; would be among the most frequent words in Loglan and hence should wherever possible have short forms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1979-82, JCB did a statistical analysis of the words in his dictionary, choosing a set of resolvable affixes to minimize the percentage of words that could not be written with short forms. In 1987, Lojbab repeated that analysis, using that data, along with a hundred pages of notes on words proposed for Loglan in the intervening years, most of the low quality exemplified above. Only some of the additional Eaton data was incorporated; we didn&#039;t have the software tools to handle such a large data volume, and didn&#039;t want the language design overwhelmed by the poor quality of most of the metaphors. Because of a lack of software tools, we compiled statistics manually (probably making errors, and including some entries multiple times when they were invented independently by different sources. But the result was still a significantly broader semantic field of words - approximately 97% of the lujvo in Loglan&#039;s compounds were reducible to short forms in JCB&#039;s 1982 tuning; the 1987 tuning based on a much larger set of words only achieved 94.6% reduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was recognized from the start that these initial assignments would have to be re-evaluated based on actual usage, of which there could not be any until we had a stable gismu list. This requirement leads to a &#039;Catch-22&#039; situation where you have to have people learn the rafsi well enough to use them naturally, while preserving the flexibility to change them. Change will naturally be resisted by people who have taken the trouble to learn something, and the Lojban project has been strongly committed to recognizing and respecting the amount of effort that goes into learning a language, and not demand unnecessary relearning through constant change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since I was the likely person to do the eventual retuning, I (Lojbab) made it a point to be the first to learn the set of rafsi (using the old version of LogFlash 2 developed especially for this purpose), and made it a point to try use them heavily when writing in the language. Thus the re-learning penalty if there are changes falls at least as hard on me as on anyone. We also recognized that we could probably only do this reanalysis once - uncontrolled change in the language is debilitating to morale, so we&#039;ve waited till the &#039;last minute&#039; before dictionary publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, the minimal amount of change in the rafsi list over the last couple of years misled some into thinking that the rafsi were baselined with the gismu list, so we often repeated the statement of its not being baselined. Still, we avoided changes, because people won&#039;t use something that is constantly shifting underfoot like sand. Even when new gismu were added, we shied away from changing any rafsi to accommodate them (though we assigned them rafsi from the unassigned set when they were available).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Luckily, what has happened fit our needs quite well. Few people actually learned the rafsi in any systematic manner like I did (I know of no one besides me who completed even one run-through of the rafsi list with LogFlash 2, and only a few have reported even trying to use the program.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some people, like Nick Nicholas, have used lujvo heavily in writing, though he clearly hasn&#039;t memorized most of the rafsi (one of the few problems with Nick&#039;s texts has been trying to figure out what his words were supposed to be when he fails to look up a rafsi and guesses wrong - that many people are able to do so shows that the language doesn&#039;t require people to memorize every rafsi in order to communicate effectively). Nick also makes good Lojban lujvo, since he supports the idea of conventions in lujvo-making to a great extent. Though I disagree with making conventional standards for lujvo at this point in the language development, conventions generally lead to choosing appropriate components and getting them into a plausibly acceptable order, a result clearly better than the strange efforts by some of the old Loglanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of Nick&#039;s and others&#039; heavy usage we considered certain rafsi assignments to be &#039;sacred&#039; as part of the reanalysis. For example, we could not seriously consider changing -loj- for logji/logic and -ban- for bangu/language, since that would change the name of the language. Likewise, other commonly used words were considered inviolate, like &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot; (though some of these assignments did vary before the gismu list was baselined: bridi used to have the rafsi -rid-, and &#039;brivla&#039; was at one time &#039;ridvla&#039; (but this lujvo would now indicate a source metaphor of &#039;fairy-word&#039;). The current word &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot; in our early documentation is &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot;, -kun- having been reassigned from kunti/empty to kunra/ mineral). But our documentation is now too extensive for us to lightly change such words, and indeed my threshold against change was to protect a few dozen rafsi absolutely against change, and only reluctantly consider changes to another large group. Thus &amp;quot;blari&#039;o&amp;quot;/bluish-green had some claim for &#039;sacredness&#039; (but not absolute), even though it has only appeared to my knowledge in one set of examples - the recently published Diagrammed Summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, if rafsi were to reflect frequency of usage, that means that some of the most frequently used words had to change rafsi, so as to get one more useful given its typical position in a word. Since the possible-rafsi-space is densely packed with the existing assignments, though, retuning by assigning a rafsi to word A generally means freeing that rafsi from word B, which then needs a rafsi currently used by word C, hopefully moving down a list until you get to a word used seldom enough that people won&#039;t so much mind it not having a rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In July, 1992 I used software tools to process some 3 Megabytes of Lojban text and English commentary on Lojban text, identifying some 2700 lujvo created and their frequency of usage. (Because the processor could not distinguish English from Lojban, a few English words crept in because they looked like Lojban lujvo; e.g., the English word &amp;quot;simple&amp;quot; might be a lujvo based on the unlikely metaphor &amp;quot;mutual-paper&amp;quot; - this mis-classification happened relatively rarely.) The frequency data was used logarithmically to weight usage data - a word used twice got a score of 2, used four times got a score of 3, eight times getting 4, etc., up to words like selbri and brivla used several hundred times and getting weights of at least 10. This weighting supports both the Zipf&#039;s Law basis of the language, and pretty effectively made sure to protect rafsi assignments that are &#039;sacred&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also used different tools to process the Eaton proposals into the statistics. As noted, these metaphors aren&#039;t too good, but the words in question cover a broader semantic spectrum than actual Lojban usage. Also many of the meta-phors are bad mostly in being phrased in a weird-for-Lojban order, as in the above example &amp;quot;skin-pass through-water&amp;quot;. Thus even these poorly-made words give suggestions as to gismu that need rafsi coverage, though should be ignored in deciding whether a word gets a final-position or initial position oriented rafsi assignment. Words in the Eaton file were only given a weight of &#039;1&#039;, and multiple-occurring usages in Lojban text thus far outweighed these terms. Eaton proposals thus probably only served primarily to break ties in the &#039;competition&#039;, and to ensure that the broadest possible range of words was represented.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The new statistics obviously tracked more closely with actual usage. However, the &#039;coverage percentage&#039; of the current rafsi assignments dropped to only 92.6. This sounds pretty good, but is almost 3 times as bad as JCB&#039;s original tuning, and 50% worse than the rafsi assignments had been under the original statistics. The actual Lojban usage data was less than 1/2 of the total weighted data, and was even more poorly covered, around 89.7%.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, since &#039;coverage percentage&#039; does not reflect hyphenation, the quality of the coverage was even more mediocre. For example, the cmavo, &#039;ka&#039;, much used in lujvo in recent times, was originally assigned the rafsi &#039;kaz&#039;. &#039;kaz&#039; is hyphenated before c/f/k/p/s/t/x/j because of the compounding rules. These letters form cover more than 60% of the actual rafsi in non-initial positions weighted for actual usage. Nick Nicholas and 2 others thus asked that &#039;ka&#039; be given a less-hyphenated rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a couple of cases, I overruled a statistical quirk after verifying that, for example, that it was based on some particularly bad metaphors in the Eaton data. But for the most part, statistics led the decisions. The resulting proposal improved coverage only a small amount, from 92.6% to 93.8%, but coverage of the actual Lojban usage portion of the data improved more significantly, from 89.7% to 92.8%. Given the constraints to minimize changes to &#039;sacred rafsi&#039;, this was about as good as could be hoped.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Review by the community led to elimination of many of these changes, since people considered a few more rafsi assignments to be &#039;sacred&#039; than I did in my analysis. But the disapproved changes had only minor effect on coverage statistics (no percentage has actually been calculated based on the final assignments appearing in this issue).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Methodology - This section deals with details of the methodology I used, and may be skipped by people not interested in such details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As stated above, I gathered statistics on usage of gismu in various positions in lujvo. These positions were 1st/3-or-more term lujvo (allowing any rafsi, but CVV rafsi must always be hyphenated), 1st of 2-term lujvo (any rafsi is permitted, but CVV are only sometimes hyphenated), middle of 3-or more terms (any rafsi is permitted, but CVV/CCV never need a hyphen afterwards), and final term (CVC rafsi forbidden, CVV/CCV about equally useful, but CCV is one syllable shorter than a CVV with an apostrophe, and is thus preferable for the highest usage words).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given these rules, it is clear that CCV rafsi are the most flexible. A word with a CCV rafsi never needs a hyphen afterwards, and needs a hyphen before it only part of the time when preceded by a CVC (an unvoiced-initial CCV is hyphenated about 25% of the time, a voiced-non-liquid CCV about 40% of the time, and mlV/mrV rafsi are hyphenated less than 10% of the time).&lt;br /&gt;
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CVV rafsi can be used in any position but almost always require a hyphen in initial position. Since there are more than enough words that need CCV and CVV words for final positions alone, I emphasized using CVV rafsi for concepts concentrated in final positions in the data words but relatively little usage in initial positions in metaphors, CCV rafsi for words with significant final position concentration, but also having high usage in other positions - in other words with high overall position scores. CVCs are reserved primarily for words concentrated in the first positions. (CVC assignments were also favored for gismu often used as le&#039;avla classifiers, because CVC rafsi are the easiest to use as classifiers.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I presumed to &#039;tune&#039; at first assuming only that a few &#039;sacred&#039; rafsi would remain untouched, but otherwise assuming all assignments were freely determinable without reference to the past. With this assumption, 30-50% of the rafsi could be assigned either as &#039;sacred&#039;, or as having little or no competition for the rafsi best suited for them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the most part, I proceeded as if I were starting to assign words from scratch, using &#039;sacredness&#039; only to dictate choices when they came up. The alternative would be to identify specific words that needed new rafsi as a change from the current set (such as &#039;ka&#039;), and &#039;force them&#039; into a new assignment cascading along a chain of rafsi assignments until a rafsi was found that wasn&#039;t already assigned to a word. This paradigm is very useful for understanding the actual effects of a series of changes in retuning. As a methodology, however, it is highly suspect. There is no obvious test for when a word &#039;needs&#039; a rafsi other than direct comparison of the statistics. People&#039;s instincts can be woefully inaccurate on this score. Thus, while &#039;ka&#039; indeed turned out to justify a rafsi, Nick Nicholas also proposed giving &#039;drata&#039; -dra- , taking it from drani. It turned out that both statistics and actual lujvo data show that drata is almost never used in final position, while drani often is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I made a few other assumptions that explicitly deviated from the original rafsi assignments, based on understanding the word-making implications of the lujvo-making algorithm better. Words with CCV rafsi are hyphenated so seldom that it rarely improves coverage to give the gismu another rafsi in addition. Thus, once I assigned a CCV rafsi to a word, I ruled out adding a CVC or CVV rafsi for that word as unneeded, unless no other word could benefit from the rafsi. Only &#039;sacredness&#039; was allowed to interfere with this principle, hence zmadu, with no competition for -zma, was assigned that rafsi, and did not need -zad- or -mau-. &#039;mau&#039; was deemed moderately &#039;sacred&#039;, though, and was kept with zmadu anyway. Unusual for a word with a CCV, this extra rafsi may be occasional useful since it starts with a different letter than the -zma-, hence is useful to avoid hyphenation in about 25% of lujvo where it is preceded by a CVC. However zad- was freed and is no longer assigned to &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; or to any other Lojban word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A much larger variety of gismu have now been used in lujvo; in a couple areas of the alphabet, something had to give. For example, to assign one of &#039;kal/kam/kan/kar&#039; to &#039;ka&#039;, 1 of the existing 4 words using those rafsi had to give up its CVC assignment. Each of these CVC rafsi was the only assignment for its corresponding gismu, so this decision was going to deprive a word of having any rafsi at all (there was no possibility of a chain of changes displacing a CVV or a CCV rafsi).&lt;br /&gt;
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In actual lujvo usage data, CVV rafsi have been avoided in initial positions in favor of CVC rafsi, especially when they are di-syllable (with an apostrophe between the vowels). Indeed, even when a CVC also requires a hyphen afterwards, it has been preferred to a CVVr in the same position.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This actually contradicts the experience of JCB when he did &#039;taste-tests&#039; to determine the lujvo-making choices of the old Loglan community - his conclusion then was that people tended to like vowel-rich compounds as more melodious and easier to pronounce than words with many consonant clusters. (A possible counter-explanation is that consonants provide better aids to word recognition, and are thus preferred by people who want to easily recognize the components in a written lujvo; such a tendency was not measured in the &#039;Taste Tests&#039; conducted by JCB.) Because of this tendency, I de-emphasized CVV scores in the initial positions, assigning them almost solely on the basis of final position usage. The following data shows one example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 gismu le&#039;avla 1st/3 1st/2 mid end&lt;br /&gt;
 sanga  0       1     16    2   27&lt;br /&gt;
 stagi  3       0     0     0   4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 New assignment gismu old assignment&lt;br /&gt;
 sag   sa&#039;a     sanga sag&lt;br /&gt;
 -              stagi -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sanga gained the rafsi -sa&#039;a- based on extensive new use in final position, a score of &#039;27&#039; in that position guaranteed it such a selection. Having the rafsi &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot;, it is arguable that the word no longer needs the rafsi &#039;sag&#039;, and it should have been used for &#039;stagi&#039;/ vegetable, which has 3 usages (all in le&#039;avla); though all other usages of &amp;quot;stagi&amp;quot; thus far are in final position where a CVC rafsi would do no good. I overruled this change, recognizing that with the substantial score for sanga in 1st of 3+ terms (1) and 1st of 2 terms (16), there would be a lot of instances of sa&#039;ar- that lujvo-makers have dispreferred given a choice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Generally I let a word with a CVV rafsi keep a CVC in addition only if the score for initial position usages exceeded all competitors by at least 5/1 ratio, as it did in this case. Else we would end up with a few words having almost all the rafsi. I gave slightly better favor to words to keep a CVC rafsi assignment that they had had previously, as sanga had previously had -sag-, and indeed that was the determining factor in this example, consistent with the goal to minimize unnecessary change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another assumption was more subjective. For the original rafsi assignments, a requirement was that all culture words be given a rafsi. Since each such culture word associated with a country automatically had at least 8 identifiable lujvo (e.g., merkyjecta merkybangu merkyrupnu merkyfepni merkykulnu merkyturni merkygugde merkynatmi, etc.) this policy was justified, and indeed 8 usages was generally enough statistically to warrant such a lujvo in the original tuning. But since then, the culture words have come under a lot of attack, and some Lojbanists have said they will avoid using them. At least one person specifically recommended freeing their rafsi assignments for use by other words (though &#039;sacredness&#039; would preserve the heavily used &#039;gic&#039;/glico, &#039;lob&#039;+&#039;jbo&#039;/lojbo and &#039;mer&#039;/ merko. Similarly, a variety of words associated with chemical elements have been attacked - most of their usages are figurative ones dating from the JCB era, and figurative tanru metaphors are now dispreferred in Lojban usage. Finally, all metric units were presumed to have a defined lujvo for each metric prefix (about 16).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I downgraded all statistics for these words by at least a factor of two, even when doing so meant that the calculated coverage would decrease. For example, because Nick translated some texts from Ancient Greek, there were some usages of &#039;xelso&#039; in final position. This warranted giving xelso the assignment of &#039;xle&#039;, currently held by &#039;naxle&#039; (canal) which has no actual usages indicating that &#039;xle&#039; would be useful in addition to its noncompetitive CVC assignment of &#039;nax&#039;. Nick specifically recommended against &amp;quot;xelso&amp;quot;, and I took his recommendation more broadly to apply to all such cultural compounds. Some gismu in this set lost all of their rafsi assignments because of the down-weighting, many of these being culture words which were borderline to even have gotten a gismu in the first place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Measurement word scores were down-weighted by a similar argument. &amp;quot;snidu&amp;quot; had its CVV - si&#039;u- removed in favor of the slightly lower scoring simxu, a change that would not have been considered based on pure statistics. Nora argued that, while all metric prefixes were theoretical compounds for snidu, in natural languages of metric countries which also permit such compounds only a few metric prefixes are actually used with each measurement. Thus we may talk of milliseconds, but seldom deciseconds, dekaseconds, or exaseconds. On the other hand, Nora favored retaining -gra- for grake/gram because its most frequent use is in the compound kilogram which in Lojban would require a CCV rafsi to avoid hyphenation. In this case, I did not downgrade the scores, and grake kept &#039;gra&#039;. Thus, some amount of subjective judgement was used in deciding assignments for culture/metric/element words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I painstakingly assigned rafsi to each gismu, working approximately 12 hours a day for 3 weeks. This was a largely manual job involving cross-checking among several dozen pages of statistics. It is hopefully a one-time job and hence was not worth the effort to develop programs to do the analysis automatically. Perhaps a good spreadsheet might have saved some time, but I don&#039;t have a spreadsheet that could handle this much data, and designing and testing a standalone program would have probably taken more time than I spent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Four metric gismu proposed by John Cowan were included as effectively equivalent to all other metric words; the exact form of these words was selected to minimize rafsi assignment problems, since we had to modify the actual prefixes to fit Lojban gismu anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I was done with this exercise, I looked at unassigned rafsi and tried to find cmavo that could reasonably have a use for them, in some cases proposing a CCV for a CV cmavo by inserting a consonant. Since the cmavo assignments have proven to be most unpredictable and unsatisfying based on statistics, this seemed like a wise course. For cmavo, I felt that it is better to assign a rafsi and drop it if it isn&#039;t used after the 5 year baseline than to not assign one and have the cmavo be difficult or unable to be used in lujvo (in which case we might never know they were needed). The community overruled me on this, choosing to leave rafsi unassigned in borderline situations, thus minimizing the memorization of possibly useless data, and noting that any cmavo can be incorporated into a lujvo-equivalent using &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;, though this is not Zipfean.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lest people worry, I expect that after the 5-year baseline, while usage might provide data warranting significant retuning of the rafsi list, the assumed philosophy will be to oppose revising rafsi assignments. At this point we are concluding a design phase; after 5 years of usage, we can only justify fixing what has demonstrably been found unreasonable or void by actual usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I put the results into the computer, and made lists of chains of changes as described above, to make them easier to understand. A couple of chains proved to offer questionable improvement and were backed out. Where changes seemed to affect &#039;sacred&#039; rafsi disproportionately, I created alternate changes for the community to select from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The resulting set of change proposals was posted to Lojban List. Several Lojbanists commented on the draft version of this report included with that proposal, and several people indicated a desire to vote on individual changes. As a result, a large number of the changes I proposed were rejected (some involving changing of rafsi that others considered &#039;sacred&#039;, but mostly involving assignments of rafsi to cmavo that were not certain to need them). The community also asked for a couple of other guidelines to be factored into the analysis, such as minimizing the number of gismu with multiple rafsi assignments (especially 3 rafsi assigned to a single gismu), unless there was really a good reason for them. This led to some new changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Summary of results ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the baseline version approved after review, there are a total of 457 changes in rafsi assignments, about 30% of the total, affecting 372 total gismu and cmavo. This overstates the actual change rate, since in most cases, giving a rafsi to one word means taking it away from another, giving 2 actual changes. The adopted total is significantly lower than the original proposal, which would have changed 590 rafsi. The community rejected about 1/3 of the proposed changes, though it requested a small number that I did not have in my original report.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a more detailed breakdown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 CVC rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
    1445 possible rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
    915 assigned. (64%)&lt;br /&gt;
    257 assignments changed (28%)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of the changes, 97 words lost CVC assignments where they once had them (many of these also had a CCV or CVV and didn&#039;t need both). 100 words gained CVC rafsi where they did not have one before. 60 words actually changed from one CVC to a different one, generally as part of a cascading chain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 CVV rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
    493 possible rafsi &lt;br /&gt;
    421 assigned (85%) &lt;br /&gt;
    149 assignments changed (35%)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of the changes, 66 words lost a rafsi without replacement and 65 gained a rafsi they didn&#039;t have before. Some of the 18 remaining assignments involve switches between a CVV and its corresponding CV&#039;V to give a word with a lot of initial position usages the monosyllable rafsi. Monosyllable CVVs seem not to be as rejected by Lojbanist lujvo-makers in that position as disyllable ones, perhaps because the resulting word seems shorter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 CCV rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
    240 possible rafsi &lt;br /&gt;
    209 assigned (87%) &lt;br /&gt;
    51 assignments changed (25%) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many CCV changes were switches with CVV assignments, sometimes freeing up a CVC rafsi (since a CVV word may need a CVC rafsi while a CCV rarely does), thus cutting off a long chain of changes that might have affected several more words. 24 words lost a CCV rafsi, while 27 gained one that they did not have before. No words changed CCV assignments, an option that was rarely possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The numbers and percentages of changes may seem large, given the small benefit in coverage (that benefit is actually even lower than the benefit mentioned above; The numbers above were calculated based on the original proposal fore changes, some of which did not occur. However, percentage coverage seems now to be a less significant figure than the degree of failure to cover words that have a great deal of usage in lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While the overall coverage percentage changed by only a small amount, most &#039;problem words&#039; were given useful rafsi. In the 1987 rafsi assignments, a word was considered a &#039;problem word&#039; if it had more than an uncovered score of &#039;4&#039;; i.e. more than 4 lujvo where no reduced form could be used. No problem word in the original data had an uncovered score more than 8.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By comparison, no less than 111 words had &#039;uncovered&#039; scores more than 10 when I started tuning and 52 had scores exceeding 15. The worst words had uncovered scores exceeding 30. This means that there were an awful lot of lujvo using these words in ways for which they did not have short rafsi. These numbers, though large, do not affect the coverage percentage much; the latter percentage includes some fully-covered words with weights of several hundreds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of tuning, 37 words with scores over 15 were reduced to a score less than 15, while 7 others were forced above that level to make room for them. Thus there are now only 15 such really severe problem words, with the highest scores being two words with uncovered scores of 19 and 3 words with 18 (one of the latter being &amp;quot;snidu&amp;quot;, for which we decided to discount the numerous metric lujvo).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There remain 51 words with scores above 10, so the total number of problem words was cut by more than 1/2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The enclosures give complete lists, in several orders, of the new rafsi assignments.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This issue contains several essays written by Greg Higley. Greg, who is not on the computer networks, has only contributed irregularly on Lojban topics, but has still been able to affect the language design with his insightful comments. (Note that his examples and translations are not necessarily sanctioned, but are sometimes of the nature of discussion or proposal. See the comments after each essay, which sometimes indicate that a given example was either ungrammatical or means something other than what Greg intended.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The essays are generally located with other essays on similar topics, so that this issue forms a cohesive flow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==On lujvo==&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to make a few comments on nu jvozba. As I&#039;ve read, the current policy of la lojbangirz. is &amp;quot;Let a thousand flowers bloom.&amp;quot; While at first I was opposed to this, I now see the wisdom of it: How could it be otherwise? I&#039;ve decided after much thought to disband the lujvo pulji and let the prisoners go. (nu jvozba &amp;quot;lujvo-making&amp;quot;; lujvo pulji &amp;quot;lujvo-police&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this doesn&#039;t mean that I don&#039;t have anything to say on the topic of nu jvozba! Au contraire, mon frre! I have actually come 180ø from my old viewpoint: I&#039;d like to suggest - since &#039;suggest&#039; is really all I can do - that a different view of lujvo be adopted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I understand it, a lujvo, as currently defined, is a tanru that has been &amp;quot;compressed&amp;quot; into a single word, and that has been assigned a fixed meaning. (And I guess a new place structure, as well.) Thus the essential difference between the tanru &amp;quot;remna sovda&amp;quot; and the lujvo &amp;quot;remso&#039;a&amp;quot; is that the former does not have a fixed meaning, it might mean &amp;quot;the human&#039;s egg&amp;quot;, i.e., the one he had for breakfast, or it could mean the same thing as (what I&#039;m suggesting for) remso&#039;a, namely &amp;quot;human ovum&amp;quot;, i.e. the female human reproductive cell.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see lujvo more as &amp;quot;abbreviations&amp;quot; than &amp;quot;fixed tanru&amp;quot;: I don&#039;t think a lujvo has to be so exact that its meaning is crystal clear. Then we&#039;d have huge lujvo. I see the parts of a lujvo as forming a &amp;quot;memory hook&amp;quot; which can be used to remember its meaning, and which, knowing the concept, can be used to remember the lujvo. I don&#039;t think that, seeing a lujvo on a page, you should instantly be able to know what it means. Rather, finding out what it means, you should then be able to more easily remember it. Case in point is &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot;. This is a word well-known to Lojbanists, but let us assume that we&#039;ve never seen it before. Would you know what it meant, just by looking at it? You could rely on the context in which it occurs, but what if there were no context, or what if the context wasn&#039;t informative enough? You could probably make some educated guesses, but let&#039;s face it, &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot; is not a very clear lujvo as lujvo go. Expanding it into a tanru is just as unhelpful: &amp;quot;lebna valsi&amp;quot; is just as nebulous. And yet I&#039;d like to argue that this is just exactly how lujvo should be made! Once you discover the meaning of &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot;, you aren&#039;t likely to forget it: You can now see why it means what it does. This is similar to the process that goes on with an abbreviation, although thankfully lujvo have clearer parts than abbreviations. You can&#039;t necessarily figure out the meaning from the abbreviation, but you can figure out the abbreviation from the meaning. With lujvo, it might be more accurate to say that, given a list of lujvo, you could pick out the one that corresponds to the concept in question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==&amp;quot;General Purpose Lujvo&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the reasons why I don&#039;t do much translating from English to Lojban, or from Welsh to Lojban, is that in order to do this with any reasonable degree of accuracy, you have to make lujvo. Well, I do make them, but I usually don&#039;t start out with an English or Welsh word or concept that I&#039;d like to translate into English. I start out with the gismu list and just start combining, trying to see which combinations suggest meaningful concepts. This is how I arrived at the idea of &amp;quot;General Purpose Lujvo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While making lujvo in this way, I&#039;d often come across a word which had no exact equivalent in English, but which seemed to be useful nevertheless. A good example is &amp;quot;zaltapla&amp;quot;. This is anything ground up and made into a patty. It doesn&#039;t have to be meat, doesn&#039;t even have to be food. If you&#039;re eating a hamburger, and you call it &amp;quot;le zaltapla&amp;quot;, you aren&#039;t likely to be misunderstood, and you can always get more specific if you want. I find that this makes Lojban much more interesting, because it divides the semantic space in a different, perhaps &amp;quot;Lojbanic&amp;quot; way, and it helps me to think &amp;quot;Lojbanically&amp;quot;. If you wanted to say &amp;quot;That hamburger looks good&amp;quot; in Lojban, you&#039;re likely to try to make the word for &amp;quot;hamburger&amp;quot; very specific. While there&#039;s nothing wrong with this - clarity is a good thing. I think doing this makes Lojban no more than a code into which we translate the pre-existing concepts of other languages. With GPL, or even lujvo that are unique, but with specific meanings (SPL &amp;quot;Specific Purpose Lujvo&amp;quot;?), we can build a language that is not just a code, but a living language of its own, that divides the semantic space in its own way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Higley makes a good point, and it touches a little on something that I&#039;ve been thinking about a lot myself. I feel that a lot of the Lojban text written suffers from overuse of lujvo owing to a tendency to try to reproduce the specificity afforded by natural-language terms. I try to use more tanru than lujvo, and to be as non-specific as I can, while still saying what I want to say (with a few exceptions; e.g. I don&#039;t use prenu as &amp;quot;person&amp;quot; in the English meaning of &amp;quot;human being&amp;quot; - that&#039;s a &amp;quot;remna&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot; is more of &amp;quot;thinking being&amp;quot; or even &amp;quot;soul&amp;quot; (minus the religious and non-bodily connotations)). So I avoided Nick&#039;s &amp;quot;beipre&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;waiter&amp;quot;: what did the &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot; rafsi add? The waiter is just &amp;quot;that which carried the coffee&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;le bevri be lei ckafi&amp;quot;. Sometimes you may need to be more specific, that&#039;s okay. But I think you&#039;ll find that you don&#039;t need to be specific as often as you might think at first. That the &amp;quot;bevri&amp;quot; was also a &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot; gets cleared up later, when conversation is initiated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Higley&#039;s view of lujvo as &amp;quot;abbreviations&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;fixed tanru&amp;quot; is very cogent and, I suspect, very close to the official view of what lujvo should be. His example, le&#039;avla is a good example. After all, &amp;quot;le&#039;avla&amp;quot; expands to &amp;quot;lebna valsi&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;take word&amp;quot; or better, &amp;quot;taker word&amp;quot; - a word which is somehow associated with a taker, perhaps. A more pedantic &amp;quot;jvozba&amp;quot; would have made it &amp;quot;selyle&#039;avla&amp;quot;, for &amp;quot;se lebna valsi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;taken-thing word&amp;quot;, much closer to the meaning: a word which is taken. Note, though, that that&#039;s not what we use, nor should it be: you can&#039;t trust an expanded lujvo 100%, you can only assume that it&#039;s close to what the lujvo means. lujvo are intended to be dictionary words, having their own definitions not precisely derived from their associated tanru (the &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot; problem I had before is another good example. &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot; is a good lujvo for &amp;quot;na&#039;o se pinxe&amp;quot;, i.e. &amp;quot;a beverage&amp;quot;, as opposed to just plain &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot; which could mean &amp;quot;ca&#039;a se pinxe&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;liquid-thing-sliding-down-someone&#039;s-throat&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree somewhat with Greg, and wholeheartedly with Mark, especially about inappropriate specificity. (I recall once inviting people to join me in a campaign against precision!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also like to play around with possible lujvo - and go beyond the obvious when trying to coin them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One thing I do in text is that I will sometimes use a more precise lujvo the first time I introduce a concept, and then omit a term or two from it thereafter. Thus having once said &amp;quot;samymrilu&amp;quot; I will thereafter quite happily use &amp;quot;mrilu&amp;quot; later in the passage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Greg proposes and explains some lujvo==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
! velcki&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bromalsi&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;synagogue&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| musymalsi&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;mosque&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xisymalsi&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;church&amp;quot; etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [And so on. It&#039;s no new discovery that the names of the major religious edifice(s) can be made with &amp;quot;malsi&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jelspo&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;destroy by burning&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [This is the basic meaning. More colloquial translations might be &amp;quot;put to the torch, burn down, burn up&amp;quot; and many others. &amp;quot;-spo&amp;quot; can be added to many words to create interesting lujvo of this type:]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| po&#039;aspo&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;destroy by (causing to) explode&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [It is the x2 place of &amp;quot;po&#039;aspo&amp;quot; that does the exploding. &amp;quot;lenu ta spoja cu po&#039;aspo ti&amp;quot; covers any x1 explosions nicely.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zdabartu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is exterior to/outside of the nest/dwelling of x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [As in &amp;quot;Mom, I&#039;m going outside.&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;doi mamta .i mi zdabartu klama&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zdane&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is inside of/interior to the nest/dwelling of x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [As in &amp;quot;I&#039;m staying in&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;mi zdanei stali&amp;quot;. It could also roughly mean, &amp;quot;at home&amp;quot; - as long as x2 is the same as x1.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zdasta&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 stays at home x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zaltapla&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a tile/patty/etc. made of ground-up material x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [This is one of the &amp;quot;General Purpose lujvo&amp;quot; I talked about in my comments on lujvo.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| rartapla&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a naturally occurring tile-shape of composition x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| taktapla&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a ceramic tile of specific ceramic x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| drutapla&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a ceiling/roof tile of composition x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [A GPL. It isn&#039;t specific as to whether ceiling or roof tiles are needed. But if you&#039;re tiling your roof, and you say, &amp;quot;Joe, hand me that drutapla&amp;quot;, you aren&#039;t likely to be misunderstood. It&#039;s the same thing in English. When tiling a roof, you don&#039;t keep repeating &amp;quot;roof tile&amp;quot; over and over. You eventually just say &amp;quot;tile&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zdabartu drutapla&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;roof tile&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [There may well be an easier way to say this. &amp;quot;bartu drutapla&amp;quot; might not clearly mean &amp;quot;roof tile&amp;quot;. I don&#039;t know anything about carpentry or the like, but &amp;quot;bartu drutapla&amp;quot; could be some kind of &amp;quot;exterior ceiling tile&amp;quot; as opposed to an interior one.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| po&#039;ertutra&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is territory (property) owned by x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ni&#039;ablo&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a submarine&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [I experimented with a number of different terms for &amp;quot;submarine&amp;quot;, but I think this sums it up nicely. I had &amp;quot;sfeni&#039;ablo&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;sfe-&amp;quot; turned out to be rather redundant: What else would it be under but the surface?]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zalre&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is ground meat from source x2 [A good GPL.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| remso&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a human ovum from woman x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| remtsi&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is human sperm from human x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cticinza&lt;br /&gt;
| [&amp;quot;cinza&amp;quot; used for eating]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| benmro&lt;br /&gt;
| brain-dead&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; | [Lojbab: A little unclear what you mean by this - the most common colloquial usage of the English, of course, is merely a form of &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot;. If you are referring to the medical state, this seems fine.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jiksre&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 errs socially in x2 [&amp;quot;social faux-pas&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| menmikce&lt;br /&gt;
| [A general purpose lujvo: &amp;quot;psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor&amp;quot; etc.]&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==le lojbo se ciska==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===New ckafybarja Submissions===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It appears that theres been little work done on the ckafybarja project since JL17, and I am beginning to think that the schedule for the planning phase was much too ambitious. The only new material received was one English-language personality sketch, giving us 3 to choose from. Since there are planned to be 7 such common characters, we don&#039;t have enough to make much of a choice yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also included later this issue is Nick Nicholas&#039;s second ckafybarja piece, written last year, which he was revising at the time JL17 was being prepared.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Character Sketch===&lt;br /&gt;
by Zoe Velonis&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She had the kind of body that clothes couldn&#039;t contain. It wasn&#039;t that she was so fat that she burst out of whatever she wore, that her flesh strained against the warp and the weft, but that she had the kind of body that clothes just shouldn&#039;t confine. Her bra straps were forever falling down: she&#039;d go about the kitchen tugging at one absent-mindedly as she stirred a concoction. Buttons would fly off at a moment&#039;s notice, turning up later in a bowl of soup. The zipper of her jeans had to be anchored with a safety pin else it would slowly creep down, leaving her blushing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her naked body was voluptuous, resplendent, Rubenesque. Never of the personality to subscribe to the feminine beauty myth, she exuded both femininity and beauty, from her thighs to her belly to her gloriously round and pendulous breasts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He would come to her at night, creep into her bed and bury himself in her warm, soft flesh; nestling his face between her thighs and reaching up for huge handfuls of her breasts, marvelling at her bounty as she tossed her head and moaned with pleasure. She surrounded him, took him in, made him feel complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the daytime she never gave any sign that she knew of his nightly visits. She was the cook, he a busboy, and there was no hint of affection or shared pleasure, much less gratitude, in her voice as she thrust dishes at him, giving him instructions in a firm, clipped voice that bore no contradictions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He&#039;d worshipped her beauty for weeks, in the beginning, longing for her, his flesh aching for her, his mind consumed by the demands of his loins. He&#039;d sneak outside the cafe&#039; at night, stare up at the window he knew was her room as she turned on the light. He&#039;d watch, hypnotized, as she languorously disrobed, brushed her hair, leaned out of the window to breathe deeply of the night air. Her breasts shone like twin moons as she drank in the night, erasing the scents of garlic and rosemary, butter and tomatoes from her nostrils. Once, as he watched, she laughed, a low, quiet chuckle, and opened her arms in an embrace. &amp;quot;Come up then, why don&#039;t you,&amp;quot; she said, her voice rich with a melodiousness off nuance that it never had during the day. His breath caught in his ribs, clung there until he remembered and opened his lungs again. &amp;quot;Me?&amp;quot; he asked, desperately grateful that his voice didn&#039;t display that annoying habit it had lately, of cracking when he particularly wanted it not to. &amp;quot;No, the other people who are out there watching me every night,&amp;quot; she said, the laughter still in her voice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So he went back into the cafe&#039;, past the night janitor who whistled as he wiped down tables and mopped the floor, who gave him a knowing wink that made him all the more nervous. He went through the kitchen and paused at the foot of the stairs, put, finally, one foot on the first protesting step.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thirteen stairs, he counted, and crossed himself. He turned down the hall, past the head waiter&#039;s room, the manager&#039;s to her room. As he stood outside, breathing heavily, his pants distended with his desire, she opened the door.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her nakedness was more than he&#039;d dreamed of. Not perfect: he could see the silvery stretch marks on her breasts and thighs, the moles and freckles, the pits and scars of age. But her imperfection only made her more achingly real, more desirable, and his genitals throbbed against his jeans. Breath came in short gasps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Have you ever been with a woman before?&amp;quot; she asked.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mute, he shook his head. It was the truth: his absentminded penetration of his sister&#039;s best friend when they were all playing doctor behind the abandoned barn didn&#039;t count. She took his hand and led him into the room, whose walls were covered with tapestry bedspreads that exuded odors of frankincense and patchouli. She guided him to the bed and undressed him carefully, opened herself to him and then, when he had spent his first desire in her, taught him how to pleasure a woman as well as himself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He realized, at one point, that he didn&#039;t know her name, that she didn&#039;t know his. Somehow it seemed desperately urgent that she whisper his name at her climax, but when he told her, she only laughed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now she was just another part of the day to him, the thing that he escaped to when his shift was over each night, threading his way through the tables and up the stairs to her soft, endless flesh. She was always the same, never cried or wept or showed that anything touched her emotion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her laughter, though rich, was only amusement, never joy or happiness; and he wondered if the walls would echo with her moans of pleasure without him, if she even needed him. So one night he stayed away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She looked the same the next day, but the one after, her face seemed drawn. He watched her carefully, but she never said anything to him or to anyone, and although for a month she grew paler and thinner, stopped tugging at her bra straps, and although her cooking grew bland and tasteless, the decline finally ended. Her color came back and her voluptuousness was even more irresistible. He thought that she had found a new lover and, jealous more than he had thought himself capable of being, he mounted the stairs one night to see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were no sounds from her room and he had almost turned away when he heard her low rumble of a laugh. He opened the door quietly and peered into the darkness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The window was open, making the tapestried bedspreads billow in the air, sending out whiffs of their scent like tendrilled ivy. And she...her bed faced the window and on the ceiling was a mirror. She lay, legs spread wide to the night, looking up at herself, and laughed a laugh of joy and happiness. As he watched, she moaned and tossed her head in that way he knew so well, and then she cried out, syllables that formed what he knew must be her name, and wept, tears of release and happiness as well as pain and emotion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He crept out, closing the door softly behind him, and tried to blank out the emptiness inside him with alcohol, tried to forget that the night and the mirror and her own hand had done what he never could.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was then that the cafe&#039; began to become very popular, then that its cook began to acquire her reputation for food with the indefinable passion, mer&#039;aki, for being a chef unparalleled by any before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Grammar Changes==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next section of this issue is the largest, and deals primarily with changes to the grammar. We first present the proposed changes to the Lojban grammar baseline, which will become official with book publication. Detailed discussions of a few of these, recorded at the time they were proposed, will reveal a bit about how the decisions to change the grammar are made, and perhaps show that such decisions are never made lightly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The largest portion of this discussion is devoted to the change in Lojban relative clauses, which is centered on Change Proposal number 20, but also led indirectly to several other changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In most cases, proposals discussed in this section have been adopted in some form, although not always in the form originally proposed in the discussion. Sometimes, for example, we were able to resolve a problem just by explaining things a little better, or possibly by making a change to the cmavo list (adding or deleting a word, or changing the selma&#039;o or detailed definition).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Proposed Changes 1-32 to the 2nd Baseline Lojban Grammar===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Terminology note: Ek, JEk, GIhEk, ZIhEk, GUhEk, JOIk, etc., have traditionally been used to refer to the sets of logical/non-logical connectives of the appropriate type, and their compounds that involve negation of either the preceding or following term (or scalar negation of the connective in the case of JOI). This is a useful shorthand when talking about these families of compounds that are function identically in the grammar.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Executive Summary:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Change Ek+KE and GIhEk+KE to lowest precedence&lt;br /&gt;
# Add JEk+BO construction&lt;br /&gt;
# Add various new free modifier locations&lt;br /&gt;
# Add ZEI compounds&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow observative after GI in forethought connected sentences&lt;br /&gt;
# Regularize BOI with free modifiers&lt;br /&gt;
# Simplify relative-clause connection to &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot; only&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow I+BO at the beginning of text&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow bare NAI at the beginning of text&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow any kind of JOI in forethought&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove POhO&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow full selbri after NIhE&lt;br /&gt;
# Disallow NAhE in forethought termsets&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow multiple I or I+BO at the beginning of text&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow conversion of abstract and negated selbri&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow ZAhO+NAI for contradictory negation of event contours&lt;br /&gt;
# Merge LUhI into LAhE; make NAhE+BO equivalent to LAhE&lt;br /&gt;
# Merge BRODA and LEhAVLA into BRIVLA&lt;br /&gt;
# Regularize rule names in YACC and E-BNF versions and update comments&lt;br /&gt;
# Revise grammar of relative clause incorporation in sumti&lt;br /&gt;
# ANNULLED&lt;br /&gt;
# Change description of Step 5 in preparsing to match reality&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow CUhE to be logically connected to other tenses; forbid NAhE+KI&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow KI after CAhA (and including it) rather than before&lt;br /&gt;
# Disallow NA [tag] after CO in inverted tanru&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow only selbri rather than bridi-tail after NAhU&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow I, I+BO, NIhO after TUhE&lt;br /&gt;
# Create NAU+tag as a non-logical connective (probably ANNULLED)&lt;br /&gt;
# Change MAhO from lerfu-to-operator conversion to mekso-to-operator&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow afterthought JOI in termsets&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow JOI+BO and JOI+KE parallel to E+BO, JE+BO, and JE+KE&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow JAI without following tag, as unclefter&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 1&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Currently, the logical connective constructs Ek+KE (and GIhEk+KE) have higher precedence (bind more tightly) than either Ek+BO (GIhEk+BO) or Ek(GIhEk) constructs.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Give Ek+KE (GIhEk+KE) the lowest precedence among Eks (GIhEks).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In 1987 (NB3 = Notebook 3 TLI) Loglan, the equivalent of Ek+KE and GIhEk+KE had low precedence. In the first Lojban baseline, Ek+KEs had been changed to high precedence, and in the second baseline, GIhEk+KEs were changed to follow. In writing the logical connective paper, considering constructs like&lt;br /&gt;
 A .e B .ake C .e D&lt;br /&gt;
suggested that the most reasonable interpretation is:&lt;br /&gt;
 (A .e B) .ake (C .e D)&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, this change restores the original Loglan situation, which supports that grouping.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 2&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Currently, there is no way to group tanru components logically in pure afterthought. The only alternatives are:&lt;br /&gt;
 X je Y ja Z&lt;br /&gt;
which groups left to right&lt;br /&gt;
 (X je Y) ja Z &lt;br /&gt;
and &lt;br /&gt;
 X je ke Y ja Z [ke&#039;e]&lt;br /&gt;
which groups right to left&lt;br /&gt;
 X je (ke Y ja Z [ke&#039;e]) &lt;br /&gt;
but is a hybrid of forethought and afterthought.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow &lt;br /&gt;
 X je (Y ja bo Z) &lt;br /&gt;
analogously to &lt;br /&gt;
 A .e (B .abo C) &lt;br /&gt;
in sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Uniformity and flexibility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 3&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow free modifiers (such as subscripts, vocatives, and metalinguistic comments) in the following new places:&lt;br /&gt;
: after LOhO when not elided&lt;br /&gt;
: after LAhE for both sumti and MEX operands&lt;br /&gt;
: after CO&lt;br /&gt;
: after CEI&lt;br /&gt;
: after NU[NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
: after NA preceding a selbri or a GEk-bridi-tail&lt;br /&gt;
: after NAhE BO&lt;br /&gt;
: after NAhE, except in tenses and within NAhE+BO (which are lexer compounds)&lt;br /&gt;
: after TUhE&lt;br /&gt;
: after TEhU when not elided&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Increased flexibility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 4&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;There is no way to construct lujvo that involve le&#039;avla or cmavo, unless the cmavo have been assigned rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Add the metalinguistic cmavo &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot; (selma&#039;o ZEI) which will join the word before it and the word after it into a construct treated by the parser as of selma&#039;o BRIVLA. More than two words can be joined by using multiple &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;s. The words &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;la&#039;o&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lo&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;le&#039;u&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;fa&#039;o&amp;quot; cannot participate, since they are delimiters of quoted text, which will be resolved by the lexer before compounding with &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other methods of incorporating le&#039;avla into lujvo are extremely error-prone and subject to a multitude of special-case tests. No method of incorporating cmavo into lujvo has ever existed, encouraging speculative assignment of rafsi to cmavo that might be used in lujvo. (TLI Loglan allows incorporating lerfu into compounds using a &#039;magic&#039; compounding method.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 5&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is not currently grammatical to say:&lt;br /&gt;
 ge mi klama le zarci gi klama fa mi le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow logically connected sentences wherein the first sentence has terms before the selbri but the second one does not. (The reverse situation is still forbidden, because it looks like bridi-tail connection to a LALR(1) parser.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The previous restriction was arbitrary and unnecessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 6&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; gets special treatment unlike that of all other elidable terminators. In all other cases, free modifiers may optionally appear after the elidable terminator (in which case it can&#039;t be elided). Free modifiers must be placed before &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;, however, because &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used to terminate subscripts, and subscripts are a species of free modifier.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Regularize the rules for &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; so that it takes free modifiers after it, except that no free modifiers at all are permitted on a &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; that terminates a subscript. (&amp;quot;ve&#039;o&amp;quot; already has this split personality: no free modifiers if it is terminating a subscript, but allowed otherwise.) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Simplicity and regularity. A new convention is needed for subscripts on subscripts, however; so we simply declare that consecutive subscripts are taken to be nested.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 7&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Multiple relative clauses can only be placed on a single sumti by connecting them with logical connectives, namely ZIhEks.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Eliminate ZIhEks except for a single cmavo, &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot; of selma&#039;o ZIhE, which places two relative clauses on the same sumti but does not count as a logical connection.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;There is some doubt whether any of the ZIhEks make sense other than &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot;, which puts both relative clauses into effect. Unlike other logical connectives, ZIhEks cannot be split up into multiple sentences. The existing implementation of ZIhEks was incomplete, and did not allow the full functionality of other logical connectives, and there is no easy way to make them work. Analysis shows that the most likely combinations of relative clauses can be easily expressed with other types of logical connectives within a single relative clause. The only restriction this places on the language is the as-yet-unused situation of a non-AND connection between two relatives of different types (restrictive and nonrestrictive).&lt;br /&gt;
: Mark Shoulson comments: This one I have some trouble with. I&#039;ll concede that in most cases, GIhEks and the like within the relative clause will suffice for logical connection, but there are some things that we lose by dropping ZIhEks. For one thing, how could we do logical connections (other than &amp;quot;AND&amp;quot;, of course) between restrictive and non-restrictive clauses? Granted, I can&#039;t think of much of an application for such an animal, but it may be a needed construct.&lt;br /&gt;
: Also, we lose logical connections between NOI phrases and GOI descriptions. This one actually has applications. For example, a system of locking things on many MUDs (Multi-User Dimensions: text-based, multi-user, user-extensible thingies that are sort of adventure games or chat programs, (or something in-between) depending on how people choose to use them) often works with methods like &amp;quot;A person who is carrying the key, or who is Herman, can pass through this door.&amp;quot; In the old method, this is neatly done with &amp;quot;lo prenu poi ponse le ckiku zi&#039;a po&#039;u la xerman. cuka&#039;e pagre levi vorme&amp;quot;. No muss, no fuss. In the new method, we&#039;d have to expand out the &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; to get &amp;quot;lo prenu poi ponse le ckiku gi&#039;a du la xerman. li&#039;u&amp;quot;, which granted is okay, but loses the whole point of having &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; in the first place (it can always be expanded). (actually, an even more Lojbanic translation, in the old grammar, would be &amp;quot;lo prenu pe le ckiku zi&#039;a po&#039;u la xerman.&amp;quot;, taking advantage of the symmetrical nature of &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
:: John Cowan responds: Mark has presented the first useful rationale for &amp;quot;zi&#039;a&amp;quot; that I have ever seen: &amp;quot;poi broda zi&#039;a po&#039;u la xerman.&amp;quot; Nonetheless, I still think that the logical problems of &amp;quot;poi broda zi&#039;V noi brode&amp;quot; are overwhelming; if we were going to split up NOI and POI (and GOI and PO) into separate selma&#039;o, there might be a rationale, but we aren&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 8&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Currently, a text can begin with a bare &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; or an I+JEk, but not with an &amp;quot;.ibabo&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow I+BO, I+JEk+BO, I+tense+BO, and I+JEk+tense+BO at the beginning of text. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allows people to complete each other&#039;s expressions by adding causals, presuppositions, and the like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 9&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Theoretically a text may begin with &amp;quot;nai&amp;quot;, and this bare &amp;quot;nai&amp;quot; is taken as attitudinal. However, the parser does not currently handle bare initial &amp;quot;nai&amp;quot; in embedded texts within quotes or parentheses. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow bare initial &amp;quot;nai&amp;quot; explicitly within the grammar rather than as a preparser hack. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Uniformity and consistency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 10&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Forethought JOIks (also known as JOIGIks) are restricted in their syntax. In particular, GAhO brackets are not permitted in forethought.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Permit any sort of JOIk, so that JOIGIks are any JOIk + &amp;quot;gi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Simplicity and uniformity, plus the ability to specify GAhO brackets on forethought intervals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 11&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Three kinds of fragmentary utterances (bare I with or without JEk or modal, bare number, bare NA) currently have a special terminator &amp;quot;po&#039;o&amp;quot; (of selma&#039;o POhO). This terminator is always elidable.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Remove POhO.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Earlier versions of the grammar required POhO, possibly due to an implementation weakness in the YACC version used in developing that grammar. It is never necessary because it can always be elided, so it serves no purpose except to clutter the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 12&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Only a restricted form of selbri (simple selbri plus optional linked sumti) are currently allowed after NIhE.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow any kind of selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The former restriction was meant to remove ambiguity, but now that the TEhU delimiter has been introduced, it does the necessary job, and so a full selbri is permissible. This grammar is also parallel to that of MOhE, which allows a full sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 13&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In forethought termsets, a NAhE is allowed just after the NUhI.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Disallow this NAhE.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nobody can figure out what it might mean to have a scalar negation of a termset, a construct which currently exists solely to implement a certain kind of logical connective. What does it mean to scalar-negate not a term but the logical connection of two or more terms?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;COUNTER-ARGUMENT:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Change 30 makes explicit the use of non-logical connectives in termsets, and scalar negation of such non-logical termsets makes some sense, possibly enough to justify the status quo, even though no usage has yet been found to support it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;STATUS:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This change has been incorporated in the current draft of the new baseline, but will be reconsidered at least once before final baseline for book publication. If any Lojbanists can propose an authentic use for the construct, this will be considered in the final decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 14&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Only a single instance of I or I+BO (and their related compounds) is allowed at the beginning of text (per change 8 above).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow multiple Is or I+BOs consecutively.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Symmetry and simplicity. With the elimination of POhO, multiple Is are now allowed at the end of texts and between sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 15&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is not possible to convert an abstract selbri [NU + bridi] or one that has been (scalar) negated [NAhE + selbri].&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow these forms. The place structure of [NAhE + selbri] is that of the original selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Simplicity and uniformity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 16&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PU and FAhA allow -NAI for contradictory negation. This is not very useful on tenses (punai = na pu), but very useful for sumti tcita to deny that the relationship holds. ZAhO cannot take -NAI, although it is also useful as a sumti tcita.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow ZAhO+NAI.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Consistency and general usefulness:&lt;br /&gt;
 mi morsi ca&#039;onai le nu mi jmive&lt;br /&gt;
I am dead, but it is not the case that this is so during my life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 17&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;There are three kinds of qualifiers which can be prefixed to a sumti, giving another sumti:&lt;br /&gt;
* LAhE provides indirect reference, indirect discourse, and sumti raising;&lt;br /&gt;
* LUhI changes sumti between individuals, sets, and masses;&lt;br /&gt;
* [NAhE+BO] provides sumti scalar negation.&lt;br /&gt;
LUhI has terminator LUhU; the others have no terminators. LAhE is also allowed on mekso operands.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Merge LAhE and LUhI into a single selma&#039;o, with the current grammar of LUhI but named LAhE (for compatibility with the past). Allow the same grammar for sumti and for MEX operands. Change NAhE+BO grammar to be the same as LAhE, thus allowing it on operands as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Proposed changes to the sumti grammar (including Change 20 below) make LAhE and NAhE+BO messy without terminators. Merging them with LUhI allows greater generality (expanding the expressiveness of the language) and simplicity, without needing to add a new terminator. NAhE+BO is a compound and cannot be merged directly, but can be made grammatically equivalent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 18&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Technically, brivla fall into three selma&#039;o: LEhAVLA (for le&#039;avla), BRODA (for broda/brode/brodi/brodo/ brodu), and BRIVLA (for everything else).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Merge LEhAVLA and BRODA into BRIVLA.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The grammar is identical and the machine parser has never bothered to make the distinction anyway. It is a relic of long-ago pre-baseline versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 19&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Various rule names:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
bri_string -&amp;gt; selbri&lt;br /&gt;
bri_unit -&amp;gt; tanru_unit&lt;br /&gt;
header_terms -&amp;gt; prenex&lt;br /&gt;
utt_string -&amp;gt; paragraph&lt;br /&gt;
cmene_A_404 -&amp;gt; cmene_404&lt;br /&gt;
ekroot -&amp;gt; ek_root&lt;br /&gt;
no_FIhO_PU_mod -&amp;gt; simple_tag&lt;br /&gt;
sentenceA -&amp;gt; sentence_A&lt;br /&gt;
indicators_412 -&amp;gt; indicators_A_412&lt;br /&gt;
bridi_valsi_408 -&amp;gt; bridi_valsi_A_408&lt;br /&gt;
JOIk_JEk_957 -&amp;gt; simple_JOIk_JEk_957&lt;br /&gt;
PA_812 -&amp;gt; number_812&lt;br /&gt;
PA_root_961 -&amp;gt; number_root_961&lt;br /&gt;
BY_string_817 -&amp;gt; lerfu_string_817&lt;br /&gt;
BY_string_A_986 -&amp;gt; lerfu_string_root_986&lt;br /&gt;
modal_972 -&amp;gt; simple_tense_aspect_972&lt;br /&gt;
modal_A_973 -&amp;gt; simple_tense_aspect_A_973&lt;br /&gt;
modal_B_974 -&amp;gt; modal_974&lt;br /&gt;
modal_C_975 -&amp;gt; modal_A_975&lt;br /&gt;
BY_987 -&amp;gt; lerfu_word_987&lt;br /&gt;
space_time_* -&amp;gt; space_* (where &amp;quot;*&amp;quot; stands for each of several letters)&lt;br /&gt;
interval_mod_1050 -&amp;gt; interval_modifier_1050&lt;br /&gt;
interval_prop_1051 -&amp;gt; interval_property_1051.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Consistency between the YACC grammar and the E-BNF version and other documents. Also, this results in no two rules differing only in number. (Some rules have the same names as selma&#039;o, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 20&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(See JL18 text article!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Relative clauses on descriptions are grouped by the parser so as to attach to sumti before outside quantifiers are put on. The actual semantics of what is being attached has been pragmatically determined, and analysis has now shown that this can theoretically be vague/ambiguous or even limiting to expression in the language, though work-arounds probably exist for all problems raised.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow the distinction between a relative clause attaching to the &amp;quot;inside set&amp;quot;, excluding external quantifiers, of a description. A relative clause outside the KU will refer to the entire sumti. A relative clause inside the KU will generally be preposed so as to parallel the historical pseudo-possessive which is recognized as a transformation of an inside-set relative clause. However, postposed relative clauses will be inside by default, matching the way in which the parser inserts elidable terminators (i.e. only if needed).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Comparable expansion of the relative clause possibilities inside vocatives is incorporated in this proposal.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The current grammar appears to group relative clauses with the &amp;quot;inside set&amp;quot; of a description sumti, that portion of a sumti including from the LE to the KU which includes the inside quantifier and not the outside quantifier. In the case of non-restrictive &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; descriptions, and possibly some others, this is not what is normally intended.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Example: &amp;quot;pa lo sipna noi melbi&amp;quot; groups as &amp;quot;pa &amp;lt;lo sipna noi melbi&amp;gt;&amp;quot; apparently adding the incidental claim that &amp;quot;all sleepers are beautiful&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The problem manifests itself in various forms more completely documented in a long paper by Colin Fine, but the bottom line is that the existing grammar is vague as to what a relative clause attaches to, and there are definable cases where this vagueness can lead to unacceptable ambiguity.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The proposed solution has the secondary virtues of: &lt;br /&gt;
# making pseudo-possessives visibly match the parallel inside-set relative clauses, but without overt relative clause marking; &lt;br /&gt;
# making it obvious how to express a pseudo-possessive with a quantifier (&amp;quot;le ci mi broda&amp;quot; is a complete sentence and not a sumti, since &amp;quot;le ci mi&amp;quot; is a complete sumti. With preposed inside-set relative clauses, &amp;quot;le pecimi broda&amp;quot; is unambiguously a sumti.); and &lt;br /&gt;
# the problematical &amp;quot;[quantifier] [quantifier] [description]&amp;quot; is eliminated from the language (analysis can give a meaning for this expression of &amp;quot;[quantifier] lo [quantifier] lo [description]&amp;quot;, and it has even been used once or twice, but experience has shown that the analysis is counter-intuitive to many people, who see also &amp;quot;[quantifier1] lo [description] [quantifier2]-mei&amp;quot; as plausible).&lt;br /&gt;
Postposed inside relatives are allowed in all descriptions, so the preposed/postposed distinction becomes a forethought/afterthought distinction, which can be valuable. Existing texts retain their currently official inside-relative interpretation (unless the KU is explicitly present, a rarity), which is arguably desirable as the default (though it must be recognized that there are text examples where the speaker obviously wanted to apply the relative clause to the externally quantified sumti.) The negative tradeoff of this is that KU becomes always required when you want an external relative clause. (Other options were considered and rejected by the net-based Lojban community.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Preposed relative clauses (but not relative phrases) will almost always require a terminator, though monosyllabic &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is usually as applicable as &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following analyzes all definite and indefinite relative clause cases.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! Descriptor &lt;br /&gt;
! External quantifier present&lt;br /&gt;
! internal quantifier present&lt;br /&gt;
! noi/poi &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;| &lt;br /&gt;
 le sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ro (le su&#039;o sipna poi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 The sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; |&lt;br /&gt;
 le sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ro (le su&#039;o sipna noi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 The sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 le ci sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 ro (le ci sipna poi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 The 3 sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 le ci sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 ro (le ci sipna noi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 The 3 sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 ci le sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ci (le su&#039;oci sipna poi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 3 of the sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 ci le sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ci (le su&#039;oci sipna noi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 3 of the sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 re le ci sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 re (le ci sipna poi melbi ku) re le ci sipna ku poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [re (le ci sipna ku)] poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [The] two of the 3 sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban in this case makes the distinction based on presence of the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, forcing the speaker to think about the distinction when important.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 re le ci sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 re (le ci sipna noi melbi ku) re le ci sipna ku noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [re (le ci sipna ku)] noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Two of the 3 sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban in this case makes the distinction based on presence of the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, forcing the speaker to think about the distinction when important.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [su&#039;o (lo ro sipna poi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 Sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [su&#039;o (lo ro sipna noi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 Sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 lo ci sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o (lo ci sipna poi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 At least one of the 3 in the universe that sleep who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
(the following is a more likely example:)&lt;br /&gt;
 lomi ci cukta poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o (lomi ci cukta poi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 At least one of my 3 books that are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
(Quantifying the inside set emphasizes it so that the restriction applying to it seems natural - natural enough that English requires forcing an indefinite description if there is an inside quantifier.)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 lo ci sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o (lo ci sipna noi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 At least one of the 3 in the universe that sleep, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ci (lo rosu&#039;oci sipna poi melbi ku)]&lt;br /&gt;
 3 sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
With no inside quantifier, the English becomes an indefinite, and there is no suggestion that there is an inside-set, much less that the relative clause relates to it.  Likewise in the current Lojban which is equivalent to the indefinite&lt;br /&gt;
 ci sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
(which under this change will have the ku after the melbi to separate from other sumti). The restrictive clause unambiguously talks only about the 3 sleepers, since in an indefinite there is no internal quantifier to put secondary focus on the inside set - the set of all sleepers. If the inside quantifier &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; was present, under this change the restrictive clause would attach to the inside set unless explicitly closed off with &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo ro sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 ci (lo ro sipna poi melbi)&lt;br /&gt;
 Three out of all sleepers who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo ro sipna ku poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 ci (lo ro sipna ku) poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [The only] three of all sleepers who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| no&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [ci (lo [rosu&#039;oci] sipna noi melbi [ku])]&lt;br /&gt;
 3 sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
(The English again becomes an indefinite and the incidental clause goes outside. Note that this time, the English remains ambiguous and odd-sounding no matter how you phrase it:&lt;br /&gt;
 ?3 of sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
 ?3 of those sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
unless you go to&lt;br /&gt;
 3 who sleep, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
which is better reflected in Lojban as&lt;br /&gt;
 ci da poi sipna zi&#039;e noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
which accurately puts the relative clause outside.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| poi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 re lo ci sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 re (lo ci sipna poi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 re lo ci sipna ku poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [re (lo ci sipna ku)] poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Two of 3 sleepers who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
(The English is totally ambiguous as to which sleepers are beautiful, and the Lojban in this case makes the distinction based on presence of the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, forcing the speaker to think about the distinction when important.)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lo&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| yes&lt;br /&gt;
| noi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
 re lo ci sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 re (lo ci sipna noi melbi ku)&lt;br /&gt;
 re lo ci sipna ku noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [re (lo ci sipna ku)] noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Two of 3 sleepers, who are beautiful...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot; | &lt;br /&gt;
(The unlikely English is totally ambiguous as to which sleepers are beautiful, and the Lojban in this case makes the distinction based on presence of the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, forcing the speaker to think about the distinction when important.)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IMPORTANT NOTE: Change 20 affects nearly all of the sumti grammar rules. There may be unforeseen side effects, although analysis so far has shown that the only reduction in expression is the confusing &amp;quot;[quantifier] [quantifier] [description]&amp;quot; which has a much clearer equivalent.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, the introduction of such a major change at this late stage of the project makes it highly controversial, as any problems may show up too late to be easily fixed (i.e. after books are published).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CHANGE 21: ANNULLED&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 22&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Bring the description of lexer compounding (Step 5 of the preparser) in the comments at the beginning of the grammar into conformance with the way the current implementation (as well as all its predecessors) actually do things. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The comments in question were written presuming that the parser would use method 5b, i.e. insertion of lexer tokens. All actual practice has employed method 5a, i.e. replacement of lexer compounds by single tokens. It seemed to be more useful to document actual practice: 5a and 5b have different ordering implications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 23&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PRESENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The current rules for connecting &amp;quot;cu&#039;e&amp;quot;, the tense/modal question, with other tenses using JEks or JOIks are erroneous and hopelessly irrational. &amp;quot;cu&#039;e je bai&amp;quot; is legal but &amp;quot;bai je cu&#039;e&amp;quot; is not. Also, &amp;quot;na&#039;e ki&amp;quot; is legal but meaningless.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Put &amp;quot;cu&#039;e&amp;quot; on a level with space/time tenses and with modals. No modifiers such as scalar negation are allowed to affect it. This is what Imaginary Journeys (John Cowan&#039;s paper on Lojban tenses published with JL16) says. Put bare &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; on the same level; this does not affect &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; following modals or tenses. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The YACC grammar said one thing, the E-BNF another, and Imaginary Jourmeys a third. The Imaginary Journeys version is clearly what makes sense. NAhE+KI was the unintended result of a previous fix intended to get bare KI working.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 24&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In complex tenses, the optional CAhA (for potentiality) comes after KI, and therefore cannot be made sticky.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Place the optional CAhA before the optional KI.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Sticky CAhA is not unreasonable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 25&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is currently legal, though pointless, to insert NA (contradictory bridi negation) after the CO of an inverted tanru, rather than in its usual place at the beginning of the selbri. Furthermore, it is possible to follow such a NA with a tag or another NA or various combinations.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Disallow them by splitting up current rule 131, which conflates CO handling with NA handling. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The disallowed constructs have never been used by anybody, have no advantages over the normal use of tenses/negation at the beginning of the selbri, and may tend to confuse people if used - they look like a negation/tense that applies only to the second half of the selbri, a meaningless notion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 26&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;NAhU is used to construct a mekso operator out of a regular Lojban predicate. The current grammar allows a bridi-tail to be used after NAhU. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow a selbri only, with no following sumti. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In a context like&lt;br /&gt;
 li by. na&#039;u broda te&#039;u cy.&lt;br /&gt;
 the number B # C &lt;br /&gt;
where &amp;quot;#&amp;quot; represents the nonce operator, the elidable terminator &amp;quot;te&#039;u&amp;quot; turns out to be always required. If it is omitted, the &amp;quot;cy.&amp;quot; is interpreted as part of the bridi-tail. Reducing the generality of what is permitted makes elidability much more likely.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The original reason for allowing the bridi-tail was that some of the places of the general predicate may be non-numerical, and allowing sumti permits those places to be &amp;quot;plugged up&amp;quot; and not used in the operator. However, the same effect can be achieved by binding any such sumti into the selbri with &amp;quot;be...bei...be&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 27&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Normally, I, I+BO, and NIhO are allowed only between sentences; for special effects, however, they may also be used at the beginning of text. This initial use is not permitted, however, in portions of text grouped by &amp;quot;tu&#039;e...tu&#039;u&amp;quot;. (See change 8, 9, and 14 for related beginning-of-text changes.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow I, I+BO, and NIhO after TUhE.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Increased flexibility. In particular, leading &amp;quot;ni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;o...&amp;quot; may be required to set the maximum level of &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; nesting that will be used in the text enclosed by &amp;quot;tu&#039;e...tu&#039;u&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 28&#039;&#039;&#039;: (Probably ANNULLED)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The draft textbook had a cmavo &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; used to attach a relative phrase to a sumti &#039;modally&#039;. i.e. neither restrictively or non-restrictively. As part of an early cmavo change, &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; was combine into the non-restrictive &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; because at the time there was not seen to be any logical distinction between the two. This was an error.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The relative-phrase introducer &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; is used before a tagged sumti in two different ways: to add incidental information (the non-restrictive equivalent of &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;), and to attach a new sumti to the bridi, modally associating it with some already existing sumti. Paradigm cases are:&lt;br /&gt;
 mi nelci la .apasionatas ne fi&#039;e la betoven.&lt;br /&gt;
 I like the Appassionata, created by Beethoven.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
 la djan. nelci la betis. ne semau la meris.&lt;br /&gt;
 John likes Betty more than (he likes) Mary.&lt;br /&gt;
respectively. In the former sentence, &amp;quot;ne fi&#039;e la betoven.&amp;quot; means no more than &amp;quot;noi la betoven. finti&amp;quot;; in the latter sentence, however, &amp;quot;ne semau la meris.&amp;quot; does not mean &amp;quot;noi la meris. se zmadu&amp;quot;, since the information is essential to the bridi, not merely incidental. That is, John may like Betty more than Mary, but not really &#039;like&#039; Betty or Mary at all. In fact, the second example generally means: &lt;br /&gt;
 le ni la djan. nelci la betis. cu zmadu le ni la djan. nelci la meris.&lt;br /&gt;
 The amount-of John&#039;s liking Betty is-more-than the amount-of John&#039;s liking Mary.&lt;br /&gt;
The confusion between the two types of &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; is unacceptably ambiguous. The second type is especially valuable with &amp;quot;semau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;seme&#039;a&amp;quot;, and has seen considerable use, but this use is contrary to the nominal definition of `ne&#039;. [See Greg Higley&#039;s article on JOI, elsewhere in this issue, for a discussion that was closely inter-related with this change.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Assign the cmavo &amp;quot;nau&amp;quot; to the latter use. Since &amp;quot;sumti NAU tag sumti&amp;quot; is really a kind of non-logical connection between sumti, it no longer makes sense to treat it as a relative phrase; this grammar change makes &amp;quot;NAU tag&amp;quot; a kind of non-logical connective, usable between sumti, tanru units, operators, and operands only.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;COUNTER-ARGUMENT:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This mechanism only works correctly if a second place is implicitly given the modal or tense tag. For tenses, the second place is the space/time origin; for the comparatives, it is what is being compared; for the causals, it is the effect (and vice versa). But for a tag such as &amp;quot;bau&amp;quot;, using the x2 place of &amp;quot;bangu&amp;quot; simply isn&#039;t useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;For most uses of this construction, the right thing to do is to use the actual underlying gismu, which has all the necessary places: recast pure comparisons using &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;dunli&amp;quot;. If you want to simultaneously make positive and comparative claims, use &amp;quot;.esemaubo&amp;quot;. To apply tags separately to the two parts of a non-logical connective (&amp;quot;I in Lojban, with you in English, discuss&amp;quot;), use Change 30&#039;s non-logical termset connection.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It has been argued that the standard use of &amp;quot;semau&amp;quot; in relative phrases is logically misleading. If we are saying that &amp;quot;John likes Betty more than (he likes) Mary&amp;quot;, the essential claim is not &amp;quot;likes&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;nelci&amp;quot; but &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; as stated above, and the main bridi should therefore be &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;. This essential logical structure is hidden by the status quo, and to some extent by the proposed change. The counter-argument to this, that natural language usage of comparison warrants an abbreviated form, is logically unsound.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Change 28 will probably not be accepted, and is not incorporated into the published E-BNF, but is being retained here until all interested parties have seen the arguments on all sides. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSAL:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Clarify that &amp;quot;ne semau&amp;quot; is non-restrictive, not simply comparative. This means that the example Lojban sentence above requires that John like both Betty and Mary, in order for the non-restrictive &amp;quot;ne semau&amp;quot; phrase to be true. By comparison, the English can be used if John likes Betty, but doesn&#039;t like Mary.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This clarification requires no grammar change, but substantial reworking of draft textbook lesson 6.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 29&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The flag &amp;quot;ma&#039;o&amp;quot; (of selma&#039;o MAhO) is used to convert a letteral string to a mekso operator. It serves to disambiguate uses of &amp;quot;f&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;g&amp;quot; as names of functions from the identical-looking uses of &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; as names of variables.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow any mekso to follow &amp;quot;ma&#039;o&amp;quot;. This involves changing the terminator to &amp;quot;te&#039;u&amp;quot;, the general mekso terminator.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Some flavors of mathematics (lambda calculus, algebra of functions) blur the distinction between operators and operands. Currently, an operator can be changed into an operand with &amp;quot;ni&#039;ena&#039;u&amp;quot;, which transforms the operator into a matching selbri and then the selbri into an operand. The reverse transaction is not readily possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;There is a potential semantic ambiguity in &amp;quot;ma&#039;o fy. [te&#039;u]&amp;quot; if &amp;quot;fy.&amp;quot; is already in use as a variable: it comes to mean &amp;quot;the function whose value is always &#039;f&#039;&amp;quot;. However, mathematicians do not normally use &amp;quot;f&amp;quot; as a normal variable, so this case should not arise in practice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 30&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Termsets are defined with logical connectives only. Forethought non-logical connectives (JOIGIks) are allowed also, but only as a by-product of their grammatical equivalence with GEks.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Explicitly allow afterthought non-logical connectives (JOIks) in termsets.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Sentences like:&lt;br /&gt;
 nu&#039;i mi bau la lojban nu&#039;u joi do bau la gliban. cu casnu&lt;br /&gt;
 I in-language Lojban joined-with you in-language English discuss. &lt;br /&gt;
are not possible without termsets. The effect of a non-logically connected termset is to non-logically connect each of the corresponding terms in an inseparably cross-linked way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 31&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Logical connections can be grouped closely (with BO) or loosely (with KE), but non-logical connectives cannot, except in forethought. This is a hangover from Loglan days, when there was only one non-logical connective and grouping was irrelevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow JOIk+BO between sumti, tanru units, and operands; and JOIk+KE between sumti and operands. We already allow JOIk+KE in tanru and operators, because no cmavo compounding is required.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Completeness: &amp;quot;the set of red-joi-blue and green-joi-black things&amp;quot; can now be done with &amp;quot;cebo&amp;quot; as the middle &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 32&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;CURRENT LANGUAGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Currently, &amp;quot;jai&amp;quot; (selma&#039;o JAI) is used only with a following tag (tense or modal), and causes a modal conversion analogous to the regular conversions expressed with SE. The sumti normally tagged by the modal is shifted into the x1 place, and the regular x1 place is moved to an auxiliary place tagged with &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; (selma&#039;o FA).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow &amp;quot;jai&amp;quot; with no following tag. The semantics is to extract a place from the subordinate bridi within the abstract description normally appearing in the x1 place, and raise it to the x1 level. The abstract description goes to the &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; place. For example:&lt;br /&gt;
 le nu mi catra la djim. cu jenca la djein.&lt;br /&gt;
 the event-of my killing Jim shocks Jane.&lt;br /&gt;
becomes:&lt;br /&gt;
 mi jai jenca la djein. fai le nu [mi] catra la djim.&lt;br /&gt;
 I shock Jane by the event-of [my] killing Jim.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Exactly which place is extracted from the subordinate bridi is left vague.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This construction is a sort of sumti-raising; it differs from the &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; type because it marks the selbri rather than the sumti. The whole abstraction is preserved in the &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; place if it is wanted, and &amp;quot;le jai jenca&amp;quot; can be used to mean &amp;quot;the one who shocks&amp;quot; (where &amp;quot;le jenca&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;the event which is shocking&amp;quot;). In this case, &amp;quot;jai&amp;quot; is equivalent to &amp;quot;jai gau&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Note that this type of sumti-raising is semantically ambiguous, as is &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; sumti-raising. The natural raised sumti may not always be the actor. In the above example, the bracketed &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; is implied to be the agent because it is omitted from the abstraction in the &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; place. If Jim were also omitted from the abstraction:&lt;br /&gt;
 mi jai jenca la djein. fai le nu catra.&lt;br /&gt;
 I shock Jane by the event-of killing.&lt;br /&gt;
it is not clear whether it is my doing the killing or being the one killed is the event that shocks Jane (ignoring the pragmatics of whether someone who was killed could/would be making such a statement; well-known American essays such as the hypothetical statements by people who have died in traffic accidents after drinking alcohol come to mind). What is known is that the speaker wants to emphasize the role of &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;, whichever role he played in the killing.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If it is necessary to raise from an abstraction which is not in x1, a regular SE conversion following (and therefore inside) the &amp;quot;jai&amp;quot; can be used to get the abstraction to x1:&lt;br /&gt;
 lo nazbi jai te frica do mi fai leka [lo nazbi ...]&lt;br /&gt;
 A nose is the difference between you and me.&lt;br /&gt;
(exactly what about the nose that is different is quite vague.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==A Change to Relative Clause Grammar (Change 20)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following is an extract of the discussions that led to the most significant grammar change in the language since mid-1989, long before we baselined the Lojban grammar (that change was the one that incorporated the structures in the Negation paper). Although the relative clause change discussed below is fundamental to a major structure in the language, it is almost invisible to the average Lojbanists: few texts that have been written require changes. It was also taught in passing in less than an hour to beginning students, with no real difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The extensive discussion, and the serious resistance to even what turned out to be a very low-impact change should stress for Lojbanists the commitment that the design team has to language stability. On the other hand, the outstanding and detailed technical analysis that Colin Fine and others put into this change is both informative of the &#039;nitty gritty&#039; of this change and its philosophical underpinnings, and of several broader aspects of the Lojban design philosophy, which are mentioned in passing during the discussion. I believe that the result, while technically detailed, should be fairly understandable to relatively novice Lojban students using only the Diagrammed Summary of Lojban Grammar due to the detailed translations that accompany the examples. I also note that Iain and Veijo, when participating in this discussion, had started studying the language only a couple of months before, and hence considered themselves to be beginners at the time they wrote (though their analyses were generally quite correct).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is presented in several parts. First comes Greg Higley&#039;s paper, actually submitted after the decisions had been made on this issue, but developed independently of Colin&#039;s work. Then follows excerpts from Colin&#039;s original analytical paper, which we have footnoted with some of the discussion that resulted on each point (edited to make the interaction more evident), Then follow comments from Iain Alexander, Veijo Vilva&#039;s (showing his perspective as a non-Indo-European language native speaker), and a few others, which did not fit well as annotation in the two original papers. After all this discussion, Colin responded with a rebuttal. This rebuttal was convincing to Lojbab, who hit upon a satisfactory solution through a rather serendipitous consideration of a lesser change proposed by John Cowan. That proposal constituted Change Proposals 20 and 21. Change 20 as adopted is found earlier in this issue in the summary of grammar changes, while Change 21 was rejected by the community. The optional portions of Change 20 and the whole of Change 21 are included here, as well as some the commentary that led to the final decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Quantification and noi===&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A potential problem has come to my attention regarding the quantification of sumti modified by relative bridi. Since this &amp;quot;problem&amp;quot; almost invariably pops up when &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; is involved, I will discuss it as it relates to &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; only, and its occurrence with other relative clause cmavo can be inferred. This problem does not seem to occur with &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All sumti that are not explicitly are implicitly quantified. In the following discussion I will deal only with those that are made by the addition of a gadri (article) to a selbri. With all such sumti, whether the quantification is implicit or explicit, there are two &amp;quot;points&amp;quot; of quantification, one (the selected subset) before the gadri and one (the &amp;quot;inner&amp;quot; set - so called because of its position) after it. (I shall henceforth refer to the &amp;quot;inner&amp;quot; set as I and the selected subset as S.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Put simply, the question/problem is this: In a non-restrictive relative clause, does the cmavo &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; refer to I or to S?&amp;lt;ref name=xpa /&amp;gt; If we take the analogy of &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;, it refers directly to I, and thus to S as a subset of I. In the sentence &amp;quot;mi pu viska ci le vo prenu poi ca vave&#039;a litru&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;four people were moving around in a medium-sized area a medium distance away, but I saw only three of them&amp;quot;. Thus &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; refers to I. If we replace &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; in this example, we get &amp;quot;mi pu viska ci le vo prenu noi ca vave&#039;a litru&amp;quot;. For this a colloquial English translation will be helpful: &amp;quot;I saw three of the four people, who were (at the same time) traveling (i.e. moving on/across/via some unspecified surface) a medium distance away in a medium-sized area.&amp;quot; Based on the English translation, it is quite impossible to tell, in the absence of context, whether three or four people were &amp;quot;traveling&amp;quot;, although it is certainly clear that only three were visible to me. Since of course we cannot take the analogy of English ^ we would be rightly guilty of malglico - we must conclude that &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; is analogous with &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; in this respect&amp;lt;ref name=xre /&amp;gt;, and that &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; always refers to I in a non-restrictive relative clause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But here&#039;s where we run into a problem. If &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; are analogous in this respect, many Lojbanists, myself included, are making the mistake of assuming that &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; can sometimes refer to S, particularly if S is quantified explicitly and I is not. The examples below will show what I mean:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 I see three of the four women, who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le ninmu noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 I see three of the women, who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska le ninmu noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 I see the woman, who is beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
 I see the women, who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci ninmu noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 I see three (of the set of all?) women, who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Look carefully at these examples and their colloquial English translations. If &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; always refers to I, then we may run into occasional problems, particularly if we definitely do not want it to refer to I. As for example 4, I would venture to guess that most Lojbanists would not take &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; as referring to all women! But this is the interpretation we must accept if &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; always refers to I. If, on the other hand, &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; always refers to S in noi clauses, we run into the problem from the other end. For this, look at example 1. What if we want to say that &amp;quot;all of the women are, incidentally, beautiful, while I only see three of them&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One solution to this is to divide &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; into two cmavo. One that refers to I, and another that refers to S. For the following examples, I have assigned the experimental cmavo &amp;quot;xai&amp;quot; the meaning of S-referring relative sumti, and &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; refers to I:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1a. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi xai melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Three women are beautiful (out of the set of four that I happen to have in mind) and the same three are seen.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1b. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Three are seen and four are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2a. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le ninmu noi xai melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Three women are seen (as always) and the same three are beautiful (out of the set of all that I have in mind).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2b. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci le ninmu noi ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 All of the women are beautiful, and three of the same are seen.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. (skipped)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4a. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci ninmu noi xai melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Three are seen, and three are beautiful, and we avoid the problem of having to call the whole lot beautiful!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4b. &lt;br /&gt;
 mi viska ci ninmu noi ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 Three are seen, and the members of the set of all women are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another possibility has come to my mind, and the grammar may very well specify exactly this, but I&#039;ll call it to your attention anyway. What it involves is the quantification of &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; itself. If we allow &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; to refer to all of I, then we can echo the quantification of I or S to show the one to which we are referring, and thus we won&#039;t need two cmavo. If this seems rather hazy, the following examples should clear it up:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 1. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi ci ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here we know that &amp;quot;three of the women are beautiful&amp;quot;, because the S quantification is echoed with &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot;. (Remember that &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; is always quantified as &amp;quot;all of I&amp;quot;, so &amp;quot;ci ke&#039;a&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;three of the four&amp;quot;, and the rule would state that these three must be S.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 2. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi ro ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here &amp;quot;four women are beautiful&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 3. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here we don&#039;t know whether three or four are beautiful, and only context will help us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 4. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi paboi ci ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I see three of the four women, of which one of the three (of all four) is beautiful.&amp;quot; And this woman is a member of S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 5. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi paboi ro ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I see three of the four women, of which one of the four is beautiful.&amp;quot; And not necessarily any of S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 6. mi viska ci le vo ninmu noi su&#039;oboi ci ke&#039;a melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I see three of the four women, of whom at least one of the three is beautiful.&amp;quot; Etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I frankly don&#039;t know which one of these systems (two cmavo or one with special quantification rules) will work best, but I am partial to the latter method. Our intuition will still be of great help to us when deciphering relative clauses - as shown by the fact that, so far as I know, no one has noticed this problem before - so it will still often be possible to omit the relative pronoun. One last possibility would be that &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; clauses always refer to S and &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; clauses always to I, but that will run into some problems, as you may already see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What does the baselined grammar say about all this? I&#039;d love to know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xpa&amp;gt;In referring to I, &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; always refers to S as a subset of I. But the question here is whether &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; might ever refer directly to S, thus excluding some members of I.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xre&amp;gt;Since we have no reason to think otherwise. I have never seen a rule of the grammar that specifically states whether &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; refers to I or to S.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Sumti and Relative Clauses ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Colin Fine&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe there are some hidden problems with the semantics and syntax of relative clauses and quantifiers. In this paper I discuss the problems, and suggest some solutions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====1. Relative clauses====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The syntax of relative-clauses is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
relative_clause_110&lt;br /&gt;
 : relative_clause_A_111&lt;br /&gt;
 | relative_clause_110&lt;br /&gt;
   ZIhEK_820&lt;br /&gt;
   relative_clause_A_111&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i.e., a constituent consisting of a left-associative list of individual relative clauses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe this is a faulty analysis. To see where the problem lies, consider a relative clause as a semantic operator: it takes as its argument (the referent of) a sumti - some more or less specified set of entities - and delivers another set (or a sumti which refers to this set - it doesn&#039;t matter very much whether we take the operator as acting on sumti or their referents).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the case of an incidental relative (ne, noi, goi), the membership of the result set is identical to that of the argument set - all we have done is made a subsidiary claim about its members. e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna&lt;br /&gt;
 [some of] all sleepers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [Some of] all sleepers, by the way, they are beautiful&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is in determining which sleepers are beautiful, &#039;all of them&#039;, or just the &#039;some&#039; that we are talking about in this sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My argument is that if you follow the parse, it means &#039;all of them&#039;, because it parses as (su&#039;o) [lo sipna [noi melbi]] with the (implied) quantifier unequivocally outside the scope of the relative.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The set of all sleepers is selected by &amp;quot;lo sipna&amp;quot;, and unchanged by the incidental relative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A restrictive relative clause, on the other hand, in general delivers a different set from its argument. e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna&lt;br /&gt;
 [some of] all sleepers&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
 [some of] all those sleepers who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly each successive restrictive will deliver a further altered set:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi melbi zi&#039;e poi mi prami ke&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
 [some of] {{all those sleepers who are beautiful} whom I love}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and logically we have a left-associative structure in which the relative-clauses is not an independent constituent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus far, I have established that the grouping in the Lojban syntax is logically erroneous; but this might not be very important. The next sections show how it does matter.&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 2. Mixed relatives ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, note that incidental relatives certainly associate (in fact, commute):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi melbi zi&#039;e noi vasxu&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;sleepers, who are beautiful, and who breathe&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
does not depend on any grouping, and is even the same (except maybe for some pragmatics) as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi vasxu zi&#039;e noi melbi &lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;sleepers who breathe and who are beautiful&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably, the same is true for restrictives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi melbi zi&#039;e poi mi vasxu ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;sleepers who are beautiful and who breathe&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
probably always delivers the same set as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi mi vasxu ke&#039;a zi&#039;e poi melbi.  &lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;sleepers, who breathe, and who are beautiful&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I am not convinced this is always true).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first problems appear when we mix the two. Does&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna poi mi vasxu ke&#039;a zi&#039;e noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mean the same as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi melbi zi&#039;e poi me vasxu ke&#039;a?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as I know, the answer is not currently defined in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that the first is (or should be) saying &amp;quot;(incidentally) that all the sleepers that I love are beautiful&amp;quot;, whereas the second says that &amp;quot;all sleepers are beautiful&amp;quot;, even though it is then going on to talk about only &amp;quot;those whom I love&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Though this is a problem, I don&#039;t think it is a big one, mainly because the only common occasion for mixing the two has been with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le prenu goi ko&#039;a zi&#039;e poi mi viska ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
 vs.  &lt;br /&gt;
 le prenu poi mi viska ke&#039;a zi&#039;e goi ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;The people whom I saw, (henceforward x1)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and even there, the technical difference (whether x1 refers to all people or just the one(s) I see) is often vitiated by the intensionality of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If this were all, we could probably get by with the existing syntax, and adding one of two interpretative rules to the (pu&#039;o) semantics. Either:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Take the relative clauses in order; each restrictive clause selects some subset from the current set of designated entities and makes that the current set; each incidental clause makes that subsidiary remark about the current set&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
or, more simply:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Take all the restrictive clauses together and apply them to get the final set; then interpret each incidental clause as commenting on that final set&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
which is certainly simpler, though very grubby.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 3. External quantifiers ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where the problem starts to become bigger is with quantifiers. There are actually two semantically different occurrences of these, which I shall call &amp;quot;external&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;internal&amp;quot;. Internal quantifiers are within descriptions, considered below in section 4. External quantifiers occur in rule&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 sumti_D_95&lt;br /&gt;
     : sumti_E_96 &lt;br /&gt;
     | quantifier_300 sumti_E_96&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(and also in indefinite sumti, which I will come to below), and I suggest that they are semantically similar to a restrictive clause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That is to say,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo cukta &amp;quot;three books&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is roughly equivalent to something like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo cukta poi lu&#039;i roke&#039;a cu cimei&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;books such that the set of all of them is a threesome&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I am not claiming that this is a precise paraphrase, or a transformation; my point is that, like a restrictive clause, the quantifier performs a substantive selection operation on the set of referents).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, external quantifiers do not bind as tightly as restrictive clauses, so a phrase like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo sipna poi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
means&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 three of (those sleepers who are beautiful),&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the current parse&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci [[lo sipna] [poi melbi]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
corresponds with this interpretation.&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if we then introduce incidental relatives, the current syntax does not give the right answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
currently parses as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci [lo sipna noi melbi]&lt;br /&gt;
 three out of [all sleepers, who incidentally are all beautiful]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but I believe that almost all seljbo would interpret it as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [ci [lo sipna]] [noi melbi] &lt;br /&gt;
 [three out of all sleepers], who are beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly with quantifiers and both types of relative:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci lo sipna goi ko&#039;a zi&#039;e poi mi nelci ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current syntax makes this&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ci [lo sipna [goi ko&#039;a zi&#039;e poi mi nelci ke&#039;a]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i.e. ko&#039;a is either &amp;quot;all sleepers&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;all the sleepers I like&amp;quot;, but in no way just three of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In summary, incidental relatives belong outside the external quantifier, but restrictive ones belong inside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 4. Internal quantifiers ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When we look inside a description we get a different kind of quantifier, with different properties:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le ci sipna&lt;br /&gt;
 the three sleepers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to me that this is semantically an incidental rather than a restrictive construction.&amp;lt;ref name= vo /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I understand it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo vo prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
makes the subsidiary claim that there are only four persons, which is an incidental claim to the description, and not a restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This does not give any problem with explicit incidental clauses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo mo&#039;a temci noi sutra simlu&lt;br /&gt;
 the too-few time intervals (that seem fast)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but the interaction with explicit restrictives is wrong:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo ci sipna poi mi nelci ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is at present unequivocally&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [lo ci sipna] [poi mi nelci ke&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
 those among [the three sleepers] whom I like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
whereas what it should mean is&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo ci [sipna poi mi nelci ke&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i.e. the sleepers that I like, of whom there are in fact three.&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So as with external quantifiers, incidental relatives belong outside, but restrictive ones belong inside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 5. Indefinite sumti ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(pe&#039;i these are an annoying mistake, complicating the syntax just so that we can omit a word here there and thereby muddy the logical structure. However, we have them and we can cope.)&amp;lt;ref name=xa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Transformationally, as I understand it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt; &amp;lt;selbri&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 e.g. ze prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is exactly equivalent to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt; lo &amp;lt;selbri&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
 ze lo prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and we have precisely the same difficulties as with any other external quantifier, except that the &amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt; and the optional &amp;lt;relative clauses&amp;gt; are introduced at the same point in the syntax (indefinite_sumti_94), so for example&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ze prenu poi gleki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
parses as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [ze prenu [poi gleki]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
with three constituents, and not explicitly as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [ze [prenu [poi gleki]]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
in the way&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ze lo prenu poi gleki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
does. i.e. the syntax is equivocal here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 6. Preposed possessives ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other anomaly in the current grammar is the preposed possessive (the optional sumti_E_96 in sumti_tail_113):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le mi cukta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is precisely equivalent to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le cukta pe mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This does not interact problematically with relative clauses, of either type:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo mi cukta poi xunre&lt;br /&gt;
 = lo cukta pe mi zi&#039;e poi xunre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
restricts the set of books to those which are both mine and red.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo mi cukta noi xunre &lt;br /&gt;
 = lo cukta pe mi zi&#039;e noi xunre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
restricts the set to &amp;quot;books which are mine&amp;quot;, and comments that they (my books) &amp;quot;are-red&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But it does not work at all with internal quantifiers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lomi ci cukta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which is always used to mean&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &#039;my three books&#039;, i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
 &#039;all books, restricted to those belong to me, there are three of these&#039; &lt;br /&gt;
 (= lo ci [cukta pe mi])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is actually defined to be&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo mi [ci cukta] = [lo ci cukta] pe mi &lt;br /&gt;
 &#039;my books, out of the three&#039; , &lt;br /&gt;
 i.e.  &lt;br /&gt;
 &#039;all books (there are three), restricted to those which belong to me&#039;&amp;lt;ref name=ze /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
while,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 *lo ci mi cukta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which has some hope of meaning what we want, is not even valid!&amp;lt;ref name=bi /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(It is true that these forms with &#039;lo&#039; are relatively unusual, and it is more common to use &#039;le&#039;, which once again gets round the logical problems by pragmatics; but I think the problems are there nonetheless.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 7. Summary of the problems ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two basic problems, one of them in two parts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1a. restrictive relatives belong inside external quantifiers, incidental relatives belong outside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1b. restrictive relatives belong inside internal quantifiers, incidental relatives belong outside.&amp;lt;ref name=so /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. preposed possessives belong inside internal quantifiers.&amp;lt;ref name=pano /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 8. Suggestions for problem 1 ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a number of possibilities I can think of.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) Nothing.&lt;br /&gt;
: Thus far, we have found this area to be workable. However, wait until you try to teach the semantics to a computer. This will require rules something like the following:&lt;br /&gt;
: Quantified sumti: Store the quantifier, then go ahead and interpret the sumti including any relative clauses. Then select the specified number from the set of denoted items. If there are any incidental clauses stored, now apply them.&lt;br /&gt;
: Internal quantifier: Store the quantifier, and go ahead and interpret the selbri, and carry the set of denoted items forward.&lt;br /&gt;
: Relative clauses: Interpret each clause in turn. If it is a restrictive, select appropriately from the current set of denoted items. If it is an incidental, remember it.&lt;br /&gt;
: At the end of the relative clauses, if there is an internal quantifier stored, use it to select an appropriate number from the set. Then carry the set forward.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Possible, but hideous, and not worthy of something described as a logical language. (And preposed possessives will give a further complication).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) The minimal change I can see is to require all restrictives to precede all incidentals, and modify the grammar as follows to reinterpret almost what we have ... [detailed proposal omitted, since it was rejected]&lt;br /&gt;
: I believe this will produce just the same surface strings as we have at present, except that all incidentals will have to follow all restrictives.&amp;lt;ref name=papa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: I and GOI have to be split, and that ZIhE performs some very strange functions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only thing in favour of this suggestion is that it does the minimum damage to existing texts. It complicates the syntax remarkably and - in the name of compatibility - confusingly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
c) My preference is to introduce three specific locations for relatives, thus so&#039;a lo panono cukta poi mi nelci ku poi dopa&#039;a nelci ku&#039;o noi cfika would parse as&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;{[so&#039;a {&amp;lt;lo panono {cukta poi mi nelci} ku&amp;gt; poi dopa&#039;a nelci ku&#039;o]}] [noi cfika]}&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;[almost all of those of &amp;lt;the hundred {books I like}&amp;gt; that you also like] which incidentally are fiction...&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... [Colin&#039;s detailed proposal eliminated]&amp;lt;ref name=pare /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
d) I considered a solution with arbitrarily nested scopes, each of which was limited by a quantifier and/or restrictives, and each of which could have an incidental attached to it, thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 *[so&#039;oboi&lt;br /&gt;
  { &amp;lt;  [so&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
        { &amp;lt;lo tarci&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;gt; poi se viska tu&#039;a le&lt;br /&gt;
 terdi ku&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
       } noi melbi ku&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
     ]&lt;br /&gt;
    &amp;gt; poi mi di&#039;i catlu ke&#039;a ku&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
  } no&#039;u la ze mensi&lt;br /&gt;
 ]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but this requires a much more complicated grammar, and I think it can be managed by structures already existing at a higher level (KE or LUhI). At any rate, I did not investigate its syntax carefully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think (c) is the best solution. It does not do a lot of injury to existing texts: as long as they don&#039;t mix restrictive and incidental clauses, they will still parse; if they do, the two sets need to be sorted out, and the first (restrictive) set ended by a KUhO/GEhU (or by a KU if there is a description). And the scoping will make sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that something like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le ci cukta poi mi nelci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
will parse as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le [ci [cukta [poi mi nelci]]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but you can force the restriction outside by&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [le [ci cukta ku] [poi mi nelci]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which I claim is selecting &amp;quot;those I like&amp;quot; from among &amp;quot;the three books&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=paci /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 9. Suggestions for problem 2 ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Omitted - there was no consensus that Colin&#039;s #2 was a problem.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 10. Conclusion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have presented at length some logical problems in our current sumti grammar, and made some suggestions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Withdraw the &amp;quot;&amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt;&amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt;&amp;lt;selbri&amp;gt;&amp;quot; form of indefinite sumti&amp;lt;ref name=pavo /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Distinguish restrictive from incidental clauses, and define three distinct places where they may occur: incidental ones only outside quantified arguments, restrictive ones both inside external quantifiers, and inside internal quantifiers in descriptions.  &lt;br /&gt;
# Reverse the order of the internal quantifier and the preposed possessive in descriptions. The three suggestions are all independent of one another.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have not looked at vocatives: since they do not include quantifiers, they do not really have a problem, though for consistency they should be changed consistently with any changes to solve problem 1.&amp;lt;ref name=pamu /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Commentary from: Iain Alexander ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First of all, let me point out that the latest Diagrammed Grammar Summary appears to support one of your proposals. At the bottom of page 19, it describes a &amp;quot;description sumti&amp;quot; as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [number] le [number] [sumti] [modal] selbri [ku]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which is your solution (c) to problem 2.&amp;lt;ref name=paxa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In general, however: there is no rule that says that the deep(er) structure of a language (natural, artificial, computer, whatever) has to correspond to the surface structure. (This is obvious, isn&#039;t it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, it is kind of nice if it does, particularly if it&#039;s easy. This is particularly true when you&#039;ve got people like myself who have access to the grammar definition, which gives the syntax, but tells you essentially nothing about the semantics of any given construction.&amp;lt;ref name=paze /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of it we intuit from the corresponding English language construction - we are after all still a predominantly English-language group - but this is in itself dangerous. Many of the discussions I&#039;ve seen or been involved in recently (and some I&#039;ve never started, because I saw what was going on in time) have been a result of confusing an English gloss for a Lojban definition - mainly of gismu rather than grammar rules, but then there are more of the former.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s a lot of stuff in the language which needs careful definition, which is a lot of work, and it&#039;s not even obvious how you can best present some of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In any case, I think I&#039;m saying that although your concerns are theoretically unimportant, in practical terms they are extremely reasonable, and I am in favour of any such rationalisation which makes it easier to get to grips with the grammar - I would need to read it all through again before committing myself to any of your particular solutions. But this is coupled with a warning that much of the grammar, possibly even including this part after your improvements, needs semantic clarification, and we as a group need to find some way of handling this.&amp;lt;ref name=pabi /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Commentary from: Veijo Vilva ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My initial reaction to Colin&#039;s paper was to agree with him but Iain&#039;s cautionary note about Anglocentrism sent me thinking (as the only non-Indo-European in this group).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought of Colin&#039;s example sentences and their close relatives in view of the current Finnish pragmatics and after a while I wasn&#039;t too happy anymore. The original parses also seemed quite necessary and changing the parsing would have necessitated the introduction of new alternate ways of similar simplicity to express the original &#039;grammatical&#039; meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... [much of Veijo&#039;s commentary is deleted as it supports options that were rejected. Among these was further elaboration of the concept that &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot;-joined relative clauses were nested, which was an erroneous assumption on the part of both Colin and Veijo. The apparent demand for nested relative clauses led to change proposal 21, but support for nested clauses did not persist, and change 21 was annulled.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In general I find that properly combining le/lo, internal/external quantifiers and restrictive/incidental relatives gives about all the semantic variants I might want. It may take some juggling at the natural language level to get just the wording you are accustomed with - but often finding the proper wording to express just the shade of meaning you are after in a natural language expression in general may be more difficult and even beyond the capabilities of most people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think we ought to get away from translating and to start taking Lojban as is. It has it&#039;s own ways of expressing ideas and it is very important to avoid imposing an alien strait jacket upon it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My approach was based firstly on the fact that I am, as a newcomer, still struggling to express ideas and to understand ideas expressed and secondly, after all, this interplay of expression and understanding is what a language is all about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is an emerging language which still is in a state of flux in many respects. We have a relatively limited corpus of existing text which is at least partly outdated. Some of this text has been created by people at a relatively early stage in their development as Lojbanists and may contain usages which necessarily haven&#039;t been so thoroughly analyzed at the time of writing but may have been &#039;instinctive&#039; choices reflecting more the linguistic background of the writer than the grammar of Lojban. When I spoke of translating above I didn&#039;t mean that to be taken quite literally. What I mean is that when we are dealing with a completely different language like Lojban we mustn&#039;t always expect to see things expressed in an &#039;instinctive&#039; way. We have a grammar which defines the framework within which we are trying to express ideas and before we modify it I think we must see whether it is possible to express the ideas we might want to express - even in an &#039;alien&#039; way. After that we must make a choice: do we accept the &#039;alien&#039; way or do we modify the grammar. I think that at this stage we still have the option of specifying the way various things are expressed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Internal quantifiers &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On this issue, I would use the following structure allowed by the present grammar:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le ci [le sipna poi mi nelci ke&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
 The three of [the sleepers that I like].&lt;br /&gt;
 i.e. the sleepers that I like, of whom there are in fact three.  &lt;br /&gt;
 (Produced from: &amp;quot;LE_562 [quantifier_300 sumti_90] gap_450) [sumti_tail_113]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The meaning is quite obvious - in fact it matches exactly the first English gloss.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This produces a kind of intermediate quantification - it is internal in the total structure but external to the restrictive relative clause. The only blemish I can see is that it is occasionally necessary to use a double KU terminator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin&#039;s example for solution (c):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 *so&#039;a lo panono cukta poi mi nelci ku poi dopa&#039;a nelci ku&#039;o noi cfika&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
would become:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 so&#039;a lo panono le cukta poi mi nelci ku poi dopa&#039;a nelci ku&#039;o noi cfika&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither is a candidate for casual conversation but I prefer the latter one (conforming with the present syntax).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And the ones in the discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Colin&#039;s proposal               present grammar&lt;br /&gt;
 le ci cukta poi mi nelci    =&amp;gt; le ci le cukta [ku] poi mi nelci &lt;br /&gt;
 le ci cukta ku poi mi nelci =&amp;gt; le ci cukta [ku] poi mi nelci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To me the present way is in this case more obvious.&amp;lt;ref name=paso /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Preposed possessives&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, the last production in the present definition allows constructs like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le paboi ciboi ze cukta so the indefinite sumti cause trouble also here. Perhaps we ought to prune them off totally as the easiest solution?&amp;lt;ref name=reno /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Response from John Cowan:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that Colin&#039;s main error lies in ignoring the uses of relative clauses with non-description sumti. If anything, the use of relative clauses with da-series variables is even more important. Colin&#039;s proposal to separate incidental and restrictive clauses, and to place the latter within the scope of &amp;quot;le...ku&amp;quot;, does nothing for &amp;quot;da poi&amp;quot; constructions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Colin rebuts: It is true that I did not specifically discuss relative clauses with non-descriptive sumti; however I did not ignore them:&lt;br /&gt;
: My contention is that as a matter of current fact we interpret relative clauses with non-descriptions as (necessarily) outside the sumti (but inside the (external) quantifier), whereas we interpret relative clauses with descriptions as inside the sumti and the internal quantifier. (I am ignoring incidentals here, which are currently a problem, as I explained).&lt;br /&gt;
: Thus &lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;ci da poi sipna&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: means&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;ci [da poi sipna]&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;three (out of) (those x who are sleepers)&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: but&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;lo ci prenu poi sipna&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: means&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;lo [ci [prenu poi sipna]]&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;some ((persons who are sleepers) (incidentally there are three))&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: but our existing parse matches in the first case, but not the second. My suggestion 1(c) is to change the syntax so that these two currently valid sumti will still both be valid, but will parse reflecting the semantics I have given.&amp;lt;ref name=repa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: Thus my proposal is not &#039;to separate incidental and restrictive clauses, and to place the latter within the scope of &amp;quot;le ... ku&amp;quot;&#039;. It is to separate incidental and restrictive clauses, and to define two different places of attachment for the latter: one within descriptions and the other outside the sumti-4.&amp;lt;ref name=rere /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: All existing strings that do not involve incidentals will remain valid, but they will parse differently according as there is a description or not.  As an extra, it will be possible to place the restrictive string outside the description explicitly (and therefore outside the internal quantifier) by using &amp;quot;KU&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=reci /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Cowan continues:] I also believe that the notion of &amp;quot;restrictive relative clause&amp;quot; is far more semantically deep than can be reasonably addressed by mere syntactic manipulations, requiring its own semantic processing module.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, it seems clear (and Colin implicitly recognizes) that all talk of relative clauses and phrases can be reduced to &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; only. The alternatives are &amp;quot;voi&amp;quot; clauses (which Colin ignores) and relative phrases with &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;, &#039;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; + BAI&#039;, &#039;&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; + BAI&#039;, &amp;quot;po&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot;. All of these may be reduced as follows: voi -&amp;gt; poi mi skicu fo da poi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ne -&amp;gt; noi srana&lt;br /&gt;
 pe -&amp;gt; poi srana &lt;br /&gt;
 ne + BAI -&amp;gt; poi BRIVLA [where BRIVLA is the source of BAI] &lt;br /&gt;
 pe + BAI -&amp;gt; noi BRIVLA [ditto] &lt;br /&gt;
 po -&amp;gt; poi steci &lt;br /&gt;
 po&#039;e -&amp;gt; poi se ponse [with additional connotation of inalienability] &lt;br /&gt;
 no&#039;u -&amp;gt; noi du &lt;br /&gt;
 po&#039;u -&amp;gt; poi du&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These transformations are not necessarily claimed to be exact or to work in all cases, but they indicate the basic mechanism involved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect, that the current attachment point of &amp;quot;relative-clauses&amp;quot; is too far down in the sumti hierarchy: the fact that it appears twice is ipso facto suspicious. I will make an attempt to do the necessary YACCing to determine if the connection point can be moved up closer to, or within, &amp;quot;sumti-3&amp;lt;93&amp;gt;&amp;quot;. External quantifiers should be processed either before or on the same level as relative clauses.&amp;lt;ref name=revo /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: [Colin rebuts]: Obviously, I don&#039;t agree that &amp;quot;relative-clauses&amp;quot; is too far down in the hierarchy - it is both too far down and not low enough.&lt;br /&gt;
: Incidentally, the fact that it appears twice is purely a requirement of mabla indefinite descriptions.&amp;lt;ref name=remu /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... Further, while I would be keen to have a transformational description of the language, I would vastly prefer one limited to transformations within the syntactic structure, not just of surface strings; i.e. that did not allow shifts into or out of constituents, as this would require.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab and John Cowan note: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot; is a degenerate logical connective (reduced from a large set of connectives in Change 7, decribed above), a sumti with two relative clauses, restrictive or non-restrictive, or both, is applying both relatives simultaneously. By the principles of Lojban logical connectives, Colin&#039;s example must be interpreted as&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo sipna poi ge ke&#039;a melbi gi mi prami ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
[some of] {all those sleepers who both are beautiful and whom I love}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Thus multiple restrictions are not &#039;successive&#039; restrictions, but in effect tantamount to a logical AND on the restrictions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Whether there should be a successive restriction capability, is arguable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A key point about Lojban grammar, especially where &#039;grouping&#039; is concerned, is that the groupings produced by the parser go beyond what is needed to resolve the grammar, and impose a structure that is not necessarily there. Thus the &#039;left-grouping&#039;- ness of relative modifiers is an artifact of LALR1 grammar that exists because you cannot have multiple relative clauses without some grouping - the grouping is not intended to have implication for semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Here is where reasoning from &amp;quot;da poi ...&amp;quot; comes into play. Restrictive clauses have a deep effect on &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;; they do not simply say that in addition to fitting into its existing bridi &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; must also fit into another bridi; instead, the meaning of &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; is changed from &amp;quot;some object&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;some object chosen from the universe specified by the &#039;poi&#039;&amp;quot;. This is shown by the fact that &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; thereafter has a meaning incorporating the restriction: it is not local to the current sumti, but is pervasive until another &amp;quot;da poi&amp;quot; appears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;By similar reasoning, &amp;quot;lo mi ci sipna&amp;quot;, which means &amp;quot;lo ci sipna [ku] pe mi&amp;quot; exactly, and is roughly equivalent to &amp;quot;lo ci sipna [ku] poi [ke&#039;a] srana mi&amp;quot;, asserts that &amp;quot;the number of sleepers is three&amp;quot; within the domain &amp;quot;things associated with me&amp;quot;, as opposed to &amp;quot;lo ci sipna&amp;quot; by itself, which claims that &amp;quot;there are three sleepers within the general (unrestricted) domain&amp;quot;. (In either case, the quantification claim is incidental.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Once this domain restriction has been done, the meaning of the sumti can be evaluated. At this time, the incidental clause can be understood as applying to the sumti in its entirety, and making a subordinate bridi (possibly compound) which is incidentally asserted. Note that this analysis implies that &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; means different things within restrictive and incidental clauses: in a restrictive clause, it refers to the meaning the sumti would have if no restriction were in effect; in an incidental clause, it refers to the sumti as-is with any restriction in effect. Therefore,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ro da poi mlatu cu mabru&lt;br /&gt;
all things which-are cats are-mammals&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
has an utterly different meaning from&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ro da noi mlatu cu mabru &lt;br /&gt;
all things (which incidentally are cats) are mammals&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
which says that &amp;quot;everything is a mammal&amp;quot;, and what&#039;s more, &amp;quot;everything is a cat, too&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Colin rebuts: Your explanation of the effect of &amp;quot;da poi&amp;quot; is very clear, and more succinct than my own. We are in complete agreement. Further, your discussion of &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; exactly demonstrates my point: that logically restrictive and incidental clauses belong at different places in the parse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojbab: It appears that Colin is arguing that because a word has different semantics in the two different constructs, the two constructs must have a different syntax. There are numerous cases to the contrary in the language, as for example the fact that &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; has completely different semantics than most any other member of KOhA, while all members of KOhA are considered syntactically equivalent (indeed, this consideration has led to useful and serendipitous realizations, as for the use of prenex non-definite-sumti for topic construction, and the use of prenex bu&#039;a-series, which is especially anomolous in semantics, for 2nd order predicate logic with no special grammar needing to be defined.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: The two are defined to mean the same, though I&#039;ll agree that it isn&#039;t written in any of our published materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Order in Lojban does not necessarily imply succession. The obvious example being NA negation, which does not affect quantifiers in this left-to-right succession fashion in the way that English negation does. Similarly, stated order of sumti does not imply any particular importance.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: As I said above, the parse within the sumti may be implying more structure than is semantically significant. In a restrictive relative clause it does not matter whether &amp;quot;lo sipna&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ci lo sipna&amp;quot; is restricted by &amp;quot;poi melbi&amp;quot;; you still get the same result. Thus it remains arguable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I think that the problem almost goes away, by stating that you can interpret all relative clauses to be &#039;outer&#039;; then, if you want them to apply to an &#039;inner set&#039; you do so by sticking another descriptor outside: &amp;quot;le &amp;lt;ci lo sipna poi melbi&amp;gt; ku&amp;quot;. But you cannot do this when you leave the quantifiers implicit: &amp;quot;*le [su&#039;o] lo [ro] sipna poi melbi ku&amp;quot;. This has convinced me there is a problem to fix.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Note that the classic Loglan descriptor is &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, and not &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;. Colin tacitly agrees that this intensional descriptor doesn&#039;t really suffer from these problems (a &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; description means precisely what I want it to mean). The only reason this issue surfaces at all is for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; with its default outside quantifier that is &amp;quot;su&#039;opa&amp;quot; and not &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot;. This was a change from old Loglan, which set the default of the equivalent to &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; (lea) at the equivalent of &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot;, making it only useful for universal claims. Nora&#039;s first reaction to this whole problem was thus - if you have problems, just use &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Incidental in the case of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;, identifying in the case of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: This grouping is bogus, since a restriction cannot apply until after there is a description - a sumti - whereas you have marked it to apply to a selbri. The &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; can stand for nothing until you have identified that a single place of sipna is being used as the description, and this takes the descriptor.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I will accept&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo [&amp;lt;ci sipna&amp;gt; &amp;lt;poi mi nelci ke&#039;a&amp;gt;]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
as being what you meant, in which case the inner quantifier plus description in effect makes an indefinite that can be restricted. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: JCB spent 25 years waxing wishy-washy on indefinite constructions, agreeing to eliminate them because they caused problems in the grammar, but finally deciding that they were too natural for him and other Loglanists who actually used the language. So he said &amp;quot;make the grammar fit it&amp;quot;, and they did, and it remains so. This is of course what used to be called the &amp;quot;se sorme&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;seven sisters&amp;quot; in older versions of Loglan) question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; inherently muddies the logical waters, and logical purists would prefer either that you use &amp;quot;da poi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, and skip &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;. Indefinite sumti are no muddier than the rest of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ze&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Fallacious. The &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; cannot be semantically separated from the &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; by an artifactual bracket. Especially since you have identified the &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; as also being equivalent to a relative clause, you should make all transforms of a type at once if you wish consistency:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lo mi ci cukta&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;lo cukta pe mi zi&#039;e noi cimei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=bi&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: If it were valid, the &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; would quantify &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;, which is why it is forbidden. There is no way to make the grammar work with quantifier before the pseudo-possessive, unless we choose to eliminate the established [LE + quantifier + sumti] construct which has existed historically in the language and is more important.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lo mi ci cukta&amp;quot; is defined to transforms into &amp;quot;[lo ci cukta] pe mi&amp;quot;. It cannot transform as Colin wishes. Since relativization is inherently a function of a sumti and not a bridi (or a selbri), &amp;quot;lo ci [cukta pe mi]&amp;quot; makes no sense, since &amp;quot;cukta pe mi&amp;quot; makes no sense, is not grammatical, and shouldn&#039;t be. The structure of a sumti does not group that way. In this sense, the E-BNF grammar makes more sense than the YACC grammar. The essentials are the &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;cukta&amp;quot; in the description - the quantifiers, pseudo-posessives, and relative clauses are all optional. But they are all at the same level, not grouped more tightly just because there are brackets present; the brackets are an artifact of the way it is easiest to write YACC grammars and should NOT be assumed to have semantic import.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pe mi&amp;quot; must be a restriction on &amp;quot;lo cukta&amp;quot;, and the only consideration is the relevance of the inside quantifier &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; (and any outside quantifiers too perhaps). My initial guess is that the inside quantifier might indeed transform to another relative clause, which is incidental:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo ci cukta&lt;br /&gt;
= lo cukta noi cimei &lt;br /&gt;
lo ci cukta pe mi &lt;br /&gt;
= lo cukta pe mi zi&#039;e noi cimei or lo cukta noi cimei zi&#039;e pe mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In any case, I think it is historically clear that the outside quantifier on &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; exists as a selection from the well-defined sumti that exists without the quantifier present: &amp;quot;ci lo cukta pe mi&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;ci [lo cukta pe mi]; however the bracketed text is parsed internally - it selects 3 out of that inner-sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Since this answer is different for restrictive and non-restrictive clauses (which traditionally have been interpreted to apply to the set after the quantifier is attached) convinces me that Colin is right.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Where there is some grounds for argument is that the quantifiers on a descriptor should be bound into the descriptor since the descriptor expands to some default quantifier if they aren&#039;t present. I&#039;m not sure what I think of &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ci lo mi vo cukta pe broda &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
parsing as&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;([ci] lo [mi] [vo]) cukta [KU]) pe broda [GEhU]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
which loses the semantics of selection implicit in the outer quantifier, but perhaps answers Colin&#039;s objection on other grounds. I think that this would reflect the semantic expansion of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; better than the current grammar, but lose the selection implication. (I couldn&#039;t make a YACC grammar work with this approach to sumti descriptions, so it is a non-solution).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=so&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I would instead label the problem as being that the grammar is vague as to whether relative clauses apply to inside sets or outside sets, and that this is probably logically unacceptable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Given that the grammar needs to be changed to permit inside and outside sets to have distinctive relative clauses, I present the following example, using Colin&#039;s syntax, where both types (restrictive and incidental) are used constructively both inside and outside. A bit contrived but plausible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi cuxna ci lo xa cukta poi mi nelrai zi&#039;e goi ko&#039;a ku poi cfika zi&#039;e ne semau leko&#039;a ci drata&lt;br /&gt;
I choose (the) 3 of the 6 books that I most-like (the 6 being ko&#039;a) which are fiction [over] their (the 6&#039;s) three others.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure it is clear that restrictive clauses can apply to either set; the point of the above example is that, at least for &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; assignment, non-restrictive clauses can be used on the inside set. That pragmatics can lead to either interpretation of either type of relative that makes me see this as a true problem worthy of the degree of change needed even at this late date. Otherwise the late date would cause me to consider this merely a semantic interpretation problem, rather than an ambiguity problem; logical ambiguities must be fixed in a logical language, while semantic questions can be left for pragmatic usage to decide.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pano&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I don&#039;t agree, since I consider quantifiers and possessives to be at the same level - they both relate to the inside set, and there is only one such inside set that has meaning for a simple description.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=papa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I do not see that you have made any case for requiring any particular ordering of relative clauses, since ZIhEks imply no ordering that can be interpreted as erroneous. I&#039;ve also devised examples wherein both restrictive and non-restrictive clauses could be applied to either inner or outer sets. Restricting what can be said in order to the more common usages seems too extreme a solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The ordering is also not pragmatically acceptable because people want the incidental &amp;quot;goi ko&#039;a&amp;quot; (which might be intended to apply to either inside or outside quantified sets) to be as close as possible to the description that it marks. A restrictive relative clause can be quite lengthy, and if it also has complications and relative clauses within it, the incidental information becomes worthless. Thus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le ci broda poi brode da de di ku&#039;o goi ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
is dispreferred, in favor of&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le ci broda goi ko&#039;a poi brode da de di [ku&#039;o]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pare&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I do not see the essential difference between the 1st and 2nd of the three relative clause positions in your example, and believe that the image of their difference is due to the fallacious &amp;quot;*cukta poi mi nelci&amp;quot; which is ungrammatical and meaningless. You want &amp;quot;[books (that I like AND that you also like)] of which there are 100&amp;quot;, with the incidental clause applying to the outer set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, even reducing this to 2 clause positions, one inside the KU and one outside, would at first glance mean that the KU is no longer elidable when you wish to put an outside relative clause. This may be ameliorated by your distinction between incidentals and restrictives, but I think that distinction is pragmatic - what is most often wanted - not what is plausible in language use. For example, in your just previous example, what if you wanted to merely restrict the &amp;quot;100 books&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;those I like&amp;quot;, but note incidentally that &amp;quot;you also like them&amp;quot;, before noting that &amp;quot;most of them are fiction&amp;quot;. Or perhaps you want to restrict the set to &amp;quot;most of them that are fiction&amp;quot;, associating with the outside quantifier.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paci&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Since restrictive clauses are often outside, this has the effect of requiring the KU terminator much more often than it has been. We&#039;ve worked quite hard to make Lojban not be a &amp;quot;ku-ku&amp;quot; language, as older versions of Loglan tend to be when expressed at the natural level of sentence complexity that we have found typical of Lojban usage. [Note: the proposal actually adopted does have this characteristic of requiring more KU terminators.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pavo&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Colin&#039;s argument on this was deleted from the article text, since it really is a separate issue. This construct is an artifact of the older versions of the grammar - something that was permitted, ended up being used rarely (mostly by people here in DC), and therefore preserved. Since there was little justification for its existence and it was difficult to preserve under the changes proposed to resolve the other problems Colin identified, it is passing from the language without much fuss.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pamu&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Almost. Vocatives can have quantifiers, but only in the context of the sumti_90 internal grammar, and hence are taken care of by whatever we do for the latter. However, the solution proposed requires some changes to the vocative grammar, though consistent with the other changes being made.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paxa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: This is a typo. Correct is&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[number] le [sumti] [number] [modal] selbri [ku]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This basic structure becomes incomplete because it doesn&#039;t include the preposed relative clause. However at the point in the Grammar Summary in which it is presented, relative clauses have not yet been covered. At some point this will need to be corrected.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paze&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: JCB had a strong policy on the machine grammar matching the &#039;human grammar&#039; as closely as possible, to the point of starting fights about it and putting in kludges in the grammar to make it work rather than accepting even small changes in what he saw as the human grammar. This is similar, if not identical to &#039;deep structure&#039; matching &#039;surface structure&#039;, and our policy has been to preserve this as much as possible.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pabi&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Such clarification is desirable where possible - there is little likelihood of overdefining the language, but it shouldn&#039;t be necessary. Lojban is already by far the most thoroughly defined language there is. I don&#039;t expect that there will need to be that much more depth provided at this point than what will be in the final set of papers being written by John after the spirit of Imaginary Journeys [the JL16 tense supplement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Colin responds: Iain and Bob rightly point out that it is not essential that the deep structure/semantic parse follow the surface structure; but it is highly desirable. I also believe that getting this sort of disparity straightened out is a valuable step in the process of understanding what we mean and what we are skating over in learning and talking Lojban - for me probably the foremost attraction of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojbab: Agreed, and most of the little changes that have been accepted by John Cowan and me since the last baseline have been little cleanups that arose from the writing of his papers like Imaginary Journeys, which exercise I see as essentially dealing with this step in defining the language. The main question, apparently now resolved in favor of change, is whether the degree of change necessary is warranted by the level of confusion possible. This is by far the biggest change in the grammar since the MEX change before the first baseline, which affected a then-unused part of the grammar, or the even earlier negation-paper and abstraction clause lenu[ke] changes while the first Lojban class was being taught, which did affect usage. It thus takes enormous justification at this late stage for a change of such magnitude.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paso&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Veijo&#039;s approach was also Nora&#039;s initially-proposed response. A limitation is that it doesn&#039;t allow you to leave the outer quantifier unspecified, if it is default. However, it does seem clear that, if we left the language unchanged, it is still possible using this construct, if not always convenient, to express anything you need to in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, it seems silly to require the extra &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; and the explicit quantifier to force a relative clause inside; also, the current grammar does suggest to some like Colin that the default clause is already inside.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=reno&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: It may be an easy solution but not an acceptable one, since it removes a significant expressive form of the language, and indeed one of historical import with a clear JCB pronouncement. In this time of baselined grammars, that is three strikes against a deletion supported primarily by the argument that the grammar generates messy, probably useless, strings. As long as the strings are not syntactically ambiguous, we can tolerate them, though logical ambiguity also warrants consideration, as indicated by our current discussion. But no one has clearly claimed indefinites are themselves logically ambiguous, only that they make certain aspects of the grammar messy.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=repa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Current interpretation is [ci da] [poi sipna] - the sumti has an implicit claim that there are exactly ci who are sleepers. Except that in a second usage after such a definition but within its scope, say &amp;quot;re da poi prenu&amp;quot;, the implication is [re le &amp;lt;ci da (still poi sipna)&amp;gt;] [poi prenu].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=rere&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: The second half of this and is what this restatement caused me to recognize was the fundamental problem. Hence this clarification was well-timed, Colin. The latter, though actually more problematical for the rare incidental that can go in either scope, was convincing to me. I remain unconvinced of the need to grammatically distinguish incidental and restrictive clauses.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=reci&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: But since this is often the desired expression, it makes KU less elidable.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=revo&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Moving relative clauses up to a higher level affects the rules for interaction with &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot;. Both &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; and relative clauses are things we&#039;d like to move up, but which can cause problems because of being open-ended.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;That is &amp;quot;la&#039;e lo prenu poi nanmu&amp;quot; is ambiguous without a terminator for the &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; construct, unless &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; grabs constructs above the rule for relative clause attachment but is itself also above that rule. It is possible that grammar flexibility could be increased with an elidable terminator for &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot;. ... [such a terminator was indeed added as part of the solution].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=remu&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: The reason for repeated occurance of relative clauses in the rules is indeed the perversity of indefinites, which interact badly with virtually everything. They are a blotch on the grammar, and this has been recognized for ages. JCB even agreed to remove them for years because of this, but they kept creeping back into his and others&#039; usages, and he finally said that they were obviously intuitively a part of the grammar, hence the grammar must be made to fit them, regardless of how ugly it was. But in order to put them at a proper place, they in effect need a parallel set of rule structures from the standard sumti structures. Thus, if you look at the baseline grammar sumti rules as a forked tree just above the indefinite rule, you will probably see that the relative clause rule appears just once in each fork, at about the same level. Only by moving the indefinite fork further down (which restricts what you can indefinitize), can you eliminate the problem of which rule goes highest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In the adopted solution, we did so, by putting an elidable terminator on LAhE and NAhE-BO constructs, the LUhU of grouped sumti, and putting them all in the same grammar rule. Thus, except its use in MEX (modified to be consistent with the sumti grammar usage), in effect LAhE is the same selma&#039;o as LUhI and the lexer-constructed selma&#039;o NAhE_BO, though its actual usage is very distinctive.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Lojbab&#039;s solution===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The relative clause change I proposed in response to Colin&#039;s paper and ensuing discussion will be found as Changes 20 and 21 in the proposed baseline changes. (Change 21 was annulled, and is not included in the list above, but may be found below, along with parts of Change 20 that were deleted as a result of discussion.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A change of this magnitude is very controversial. Cowan and I were originally opposed to any change, primarily on the basis that the language design is too firmly baselined to permit such a degree of fiddling as was necessary, and the possible unforeseen side effects of this change are enormous. We were for the most part unconvinced until a late stage that the logical problem Colin was talking about was indeed serious enough to warrant the type of change we believed was needed to solve it, one that might render much existing Lojban texts incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An earlier major proposal like this had Colin and a few others basically arguing that if the language has an irregularity, it is still permissible to change it because not all that many have learned the language to a point where it would hurt them to relearn. In that case, Nick sided against the proposal. Nora did also, seeing herself as guardian of language stability, since she knows how many people were driven off by similar attempts to stick one more necessary improvement after another in old Loglan in the 1970s and early 1980s. The cost of continued change is not only relearning, but a reluctance of new people to try to learn a language that they might have to relearn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other side of the fence is someone like John Hodges, who, while opposed to unnecessarily fiddling with the language in general, sees that Lojban&#039;s main hope as a language in the future depends on its logical integrity, and flaws in that integrity must be resolved even if it costs significant relearning for those of us already studying the language. (A limitation on this position is that, for most of the logical issues that have faced Lojban in the last few years, formal logic gives no clear and single answer. Different schools of thought on logic solve the problems differently. Thus, Lojban research has had to forge its own school of logical thought based on what is necessary to make the language self-consistent.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan, who has frequently proposed minor changes in the last three years, almost all of which were adopted, has come to understand the third aspect of the problem: if the language is ever to be documented, it must stop changing. The mere existence and serious consideration of this proposal stopped his work on the sumti paper, and its adoption forced a totally redesign of that paper, not to mention changes to a lot of documentation already completed. Similar changes in the future pose equally drastic threats to already completed and in progress documentation efforts. If the language isn&#039;t documented; no one can learn it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A proposal of this magnitude serious affects on-going learning and teaching efforts. At the time of this proposal, it affected the then ongoing DC class - I had to decide which version of relative clauses to teach within a week, since relative clauses was indeed the topic of the week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These comments are thus set forth as a warning - that while we want to make the language right and it is worthwhile finding such problems, proposals alike this are stressful to the project, the design team that is trying to finish the project, the language and the community, and thus are decidedly unwelcome. This doesn&#039;t mean that questions should not be raised - I hope people will do so, but the expectation must be that most such problems as are identified from here on out will be merely documented as problems, with no change to the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Colin and others reassured me immediately in response to the above that there were no other pending major issues, and indeed, none have been raised in the 10 months since this discussion].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin&#039;s last rebuttal on the issue finally convinced both me and Nora that the problem required fixing. Cowan remained less than convinced that a change of this magnitude at this late date was tolerable even if the problem is real, but went along with the consensus. Nora&#039;s priority in this issue is to minimize the effect on existing text and documentation and this led to a complication in the proposal. All three of us were fairly certain that Colin&#039;s solution, which is to separate the grammars of restrictive and incidental clauses, is not the right solution, and also results in too much complication to grammar, documentation, and teaching.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My solution instead attempted to see the problem as a restriction in what can be said in the language, specifically in where a relative clause may/must be attached. Indeed, my solution is mostly an unexpected side benefit of trying to add preposed inside relative clauses as a way around the oft-occurring problem of the invalid sumti form &amp;quot;*&amp;lt;le [ci mi] broda ku&amp;gt;&amp;quot; that mucked up my attempts to understand what Colin was arguing during the above discussion (that text parses as a complete sentence: &amp;quot;&amp;lt;le ci mi&amp;gt; [cu] broda&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is therefore invalid).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My solution to that problem was to allow the preposed relative &amp;quot;le pe ci mi broda ku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In proposing this to John Cowan, I did not realize that the real argument was centering on the distinction between inside and outside quantified sets, since I had not yet read Colin&#039;s paper. Cowan had put the issue to me in terms of an attempt to attach relative clauses to explicitly include the outside quantifier without mentioning that there was a reason why someone might want to also relatively modify the inside set as well. Thus I saw the solution as merely explicitly moving the relative clauses indisputably outside. (A major side effect of this turned out to be the need to put a terminator on LAhE clauses, which in turn has resulted in the simplification of the language indicated by Change 18. That change is numbered first because we agreed on it before the full proposal reached its full glory. Changes 17 and 19 are also side effects related to Changes 20 and 21.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also attempted to pretty up the grammar by combining indefinites with relative clauses in one place. The rule I proposed basically saw the use of an inside quantifier as &amp;quot;le &amp;lt;indefinite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le &amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt; lo &amp;lt;description&amp;gt;&amp;quot;, a plausible but arguable proposition. Cowan talked me out of this to minimize change - it would require a &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; after relative clauses for all indefinites (in addition to the relative clause terminator), though real speakers don&#039;t need it because indefinites have no explicit &#039;inside&#039; set to be modified). The grammatical rule stayed in without mentioning indefinites, because by then the change was evolving to the current proposal. The remnant of this side exercise became option 3 under the change, and was the assumed default in the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Upon seeing Colin&#039;s writings, my first inclination was to say that inside clauses could be solved under this plan in a way that Veijo proposed: &amp;quot;le ci le &amp;lt;description&amp;gt; ku poi broda ku&amp;quot;, and indeed it is a tribute to Veijo that this almost works. However, when there is no explicit outside quantifier, a problem that only manifests with &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; and family, since &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; has a &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; outside quantifier as default. For&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna noi melbi&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I raised the following question with Nora: &amp;quot;Since the default quantification expands to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o lo ro sipna noi melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is the unexpanded form claiming that the &#039;indefinite sleeper&#039; is beautiful, or are all of the sleepers?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer appeared to depend on whether you expanded the quantifiers or not - the unexpanded form appears to be outside because we haven&#039;t explicitly quantified the inside; the expanded form seems more ambiguous. The problem is even worse when repeated with &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;, and Nora declared that something was indeed &#039;broken&#039;. You cannot use Veijo&#039;s solution to fix this since &amp;quot;*le [su&#039;o] lo sipna poi melbi ku&amp;quot; isn&#039;t grammatical with the &amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; left implicit and unstated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus we needed some kind of inside relative clause, and I looked at my working proposal and said, voila - it is already there. The preposed relative clause is indisputably &#039;inside&#039;, and I even had a postposed inside relative available when the inside set is quantified, based on the internal-indefinite rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indefinites were separated back out per Cowan&#039;s argument, as mentioned above, but the result is highlighted in the following extracts from the E-BNF. Note that I consider the question of nesting of relative clauses and a couple of other things that came up, as side issues, but they also appear in the rules quoted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following E-BNF is not the proposal as finally adopted, which deleted Change Proposal 21. However, it is fairly hard to understand the three original options of Change 20, along with Change 21, without this version of the E-BNF.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-3&amp;lt;93&amp;gt; = sumti-4 | gek sumti gik sumti-3&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-4&amp;lt;94&amp;gt; = sumti-5 | quantifier selbri /KU#/ | sumti4 relative-clauses&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-5&amp;lt;95&amp;gt; = sumti-6 | quantifier sumti-5&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-6&amp;lt;96&amp;gt; = (LAhE # | NAhE BO #) sumti /LUhU#/ | gek sumti gik sumti-4 | KOhA # | letteral-string /BOI#/ | LA CMENE ... # | (LA | LE) sumti-tail /KU#/ | LI mex /LOhO#/ | ZO any-word # | LU text /LIhU/ # | LOhU any-word ... LEhU # | ZOI any-word anything any-word #&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-tail&amp;lt;111&amp;gt; = relative-clauses sumti-tail | [sumti-6 [nested-relative-clauses]] sumti-tail-1&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-tail-1&amp;lt;112&amp;gt; = selbri | sumti-tail-2 | quantifier sumti&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-tail-2&amp;lt;113&amp;gt; = quantifier selbri | sumti-tail-2 relative-clauses&lt;br /&gt;
nested-relative-clauses&amp;lt;120&amp;gt; = relative-clauses ...&lt;br /&gt;
relative-clauses&amp;lt;121&amp;gt; = relative-clause [ZIhE relative-clause] ...&lt;br /&gt;
relative-clause&amp;lt;122&amp;gt; = GOI term /GEhU#/ | NOI sentence /KUhO#/&lt;br /&gt;
free&amp;lt;32&amp;gt; = SEI # [term ... [CU #]] selbri /SEhU/ | SOI sumti [sumti] /SEhU/ | vocative selbri [nested-relative-clauses] /DOhU/ | vocative relative-clauses sumti-tail /DOhU/ | vocative CMENE ... # [nested-relative-clauses] /DOhU/ | vocative [sumti] /DOhU/ | (number | letteral-string) MAI | TO text /TOI/ | XI number /BOI/ | XI letteral-string /BOI/ | XI VEI mex /VEhO/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rule that proposed for 113 is the remnant of the attempt to merge indefinites and inside quantifiers. It allows inside postposed relative quantifiers before the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; if-and-only-if there is also an inside quantifier. My argument for this was that it allows the most natural meshing with the defaults assumed in the past language, which perhaps have been excessively English-based, but in any event are indeed historical and at least plausible interpretations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan did not like this idea, because it makes &amp;quot;lo sipna poi melbi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;su&#039;o lo ro sipna poi melbi&amp;quot; group differently even though one is the defined transformation of the other. I argued that the transformation must include the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; explicitly before expanding, and thus there is no inconsistency. &amp;quot;lo sipna ku poi melbi&amp;quot; expands to &amp;quot;su&#039;o lo ro sipna ku poi melbi&amp;quot;. However, the inside restriction requires that the relative clause be preposed in order to contract it &amp;quot;su&#039;o lo ro sipna poi melbi ku&amp;quot; -&amp;gt; &amp;quot;lo poi melbi vau/ku&#039;o sipna ku&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that you need a terminator on the preposed relative clauses most of the time. I would use &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;, though &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; is more exact, because &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is monosyllabic and the idea of preposing is to contract.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Excerpts from Change 20 and 21 as originally proposed but not in the final proposal===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Options relating to allowing postposed relative clauses inside the KU (referring to inside-sets, and thus paralleling the preposed equivalent) lead to a complicated tradeoff, which is left for the community to resolve. Option 3) is believed closest to the current grammar and semantics, and is the default selection described by the E-BNF above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# If postposed inside relatives are allowed in all descriptions, then the preposed/postposed distinction becomes a forethought/afterthought distinction, which can be valuable. It also makes existing texts retain their currently official inside-relative interpretation (unless the KU is explicitly present, a rarity), which is arguably desirable as the default (though it must be recognized that there are text examples where the speaker obviously wanted to apply the relative clause to the externally quantified sumti.) The negative tradeoff of this is that KU becomes always required when you want an external relative clause.&lt;br /&gt;
# If postposed inside relatives are never allowed, then all existing usages will become parsed as external relatives whether or not a KU is present. This is probably equally valid as 1) as a default, and makes a simpler, easier-to-teach grammar, since one learns the rule: prepose inside, postpose outside. The negative tradeoffs are that this eliminates the forethought/afterthought distinction, forcing the speaker to form all inside restrictions before starting the description. Somewhat more of older texts will be misinterpreted under the new parse, since they use postposed relative clauses, but are often intended to refer to the inside set.&lt;br /&gt;
# A third option is to allow postposed inside relatives only when there is an inside quantifier. Though it seems counter-intuitive that this would handle almost all problems with existing texts, in fact it appears to do so. Another negative aspect is that &amp;quot;lo broda noi/poi brode&amp;quot; (external relative) would have a different parse than &amp;quot;su&#039;o lo ro broda noi/poi broda&amp;quot; (internal relative), which is merely the same sumti with implicit quantifiers made explicit. This could make it more difficult to teach, though it might make natural expression easier if relative clauses end up grouping correctly most often without the KU.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A note applicable to all options is that preposed relative clauses (but not relative phrases) will almost always require a terminator, though monosyllabic &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is usually as applicable as &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot;. Since preposed relative clauses require a terminator, 1) or 3) may be advantageous in that they always allow the afterthought construction which does not require a terminator (but may require explicit KU too often, especially in option 1).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;CHANGE 21&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;PROPOSED CHANGE&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Allow nesting of relative clauses, distinct from ZIhEk grouping which retains relative clauses at the same level (commutative and associative, with all restrictions taking place before non-restrictive uses).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;RATIONALE&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This change is mostly made moot by the addition of both inside and outside relative clauses, which probably renders the need for nesting to be negligible.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is argued that natural language speakers will process relative clauses as they come to them, making &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot; grouping unnatural if in keeping with the logical aspects of the language. (Actual Lojban usage suggests that people will prefer to put &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; assignments, which are nonrestrictive, closer to the sumti than restrictive ones, even when the wish the assignment to include the restriction.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The advantages are that nesting allows variable assignment to intermediate restrictions:&lt;br /&gt;
 lo sipna goi ko&#039;a poi melbi goi ko&#039;e poi mi nelci [ke&#039;a] goi ko&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
 (&amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; in this case would seem to be the same as &amp;quot;ko&#039;e&amp;quot;, requiring&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ke&#039;axire&amp;quot; to get the equivalent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; if it was useful for some reason.&lt;br /&gt;
Another argument is that &amp;quot;voi&amp;quot; restrictive clauses, which are intensional, would be implicitly nested. As yet there has been no example of a multiple &amp;quot;voi&amp;quot; relative clause to support this since &amp;quot;voi&amp;quot; is new in the language and remains seldom-used.&lt;br /&gt;
Thus the bottom line is that some would like this option, and it is an expansion of the language that dovetails well with Change 20.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Commentary on the Proposed Change that led to the version that was adopted ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Iain Alexander: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-6&amp;lt;96&amp;gt;: How do we attach relative clauses unambiguously to a whole &amp;quot;&amp;lt;GEk ... GIk&amp;gt;&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;sumti ek sumti&amp;quot;... I think the only way to do that is some kind of terminator or grouping mechanism. Similarly we do need to say things like &amp;quot;Three of the people who voted&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;Three of the men who voted&amp;quot;. But you can either use some sort of inside quantifier or use &amp;quot;ci lu&#039;a ... lu&#039;u&amp;quot;, so we&#039;re covered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If LUhI is the answer [yes, it is], then I&#039;ll accept that. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-5&amp;lt;95&amp;gt;: I notice that in getting rid of multiple quantifiers on an indefinite description, you&#039;ve ended up with multiple quantifiers on a sumti-6 :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Change 20. I&#039;ve tossed this around various ways, and I&#039;ve more or less convinced myself that, if it comes down to it, I can probably live with all the options, including no change. The argument revolves round the ability to force the required grouping, either by using one of the (LAhE that used to be LUhI), to force an inside quantifier, or an explicit &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; to force an outside one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The existing grammar has some potential ambiguities, such as &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;quantifier selbri /KU/ relatives&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;quantifier (LA | LE) sumti-tail /KU/ relatives&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(which latter is an expanded instance of sumti-3) - with the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; elided and no explicit grouping, it could be interpreted either way. You can regard this as a bug or a feature, depending on your point of view. The way the grammar is actually laid out suggests an outside relative for the former, and an inside one for the latter (but that&#039;s with or without the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact all versions seem to imply an outside relative for the former implicit indefinite, which is reasonable enough. However on balance, I suspect the ambiguities are too confusing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On balance, I prefer an occasional extra &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; to an occasional extra LAhE. The &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is shorter, and the LAhE carries an extra unwanted semantic implication. In the &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; case, the distinction between some cases with and without the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is vanishingly small, e.g. &amp;quot;lo sipna&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;le ci sipna&amp;quot;. In the &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; case, I think if anything the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; helps to make the point, echoing the pause resulting from the comma in the English - but that may be excessively parochial.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like the preposed relatives for variety, but I&#039;m too fond of postposed relatives not to use them even at the expense of a little awkwardness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not so keen on option 2, since it means you will always need a LUhA to force an inside postposed relative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decision between options 1 and 3 is closer. If I were to work out all the cases, it might turn out that extra LAhE in option 3 were sufficiently fewer than extra &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; in option 1 to tip the scales to option 3, but at the moment, I lean towards option 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
21. The only problem with this appears to be cases like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;le prenu goi ko&#039;a poi mi nelci ko&#039;a goi le prenu poi mi nelci&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;le prenu &amp;lt;goi [ko&#039;a poi mi nelci {ko&#039;a goi &amp;lt;le prenu poi mi nelci&amp;gt;}]&amp;gt;&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... [Some complicated analysis by Iain showed that use of multiply nested and variable-assigned relative clauses, one of the few benefits of Change 21, are very non-intuitive. They often group differently than you would expect unless you put a lot of terminator in.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the current grammar, we could have said&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lu&#039;a lu&#039;a lo sipna [vau] [ku] goi ko&#039;a [ge&#039;u] lu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 poi [ke&#039;a] melbi [vau] [ku&#039;o] zi&#039;e goi ko&#039;e [ge&#039;u] lu&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
 poi mi nelci [ke&#039;a] [vau] [ku&#039;o] zi&#039;e goi ko&#039;i [ge&#039;u]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is obviously cumbersome, but then the whole idea of three nested relatives with intermediate variable assignments is cumbersome. We already appear to have relatives coming out our ears in descriptions (preposed, nested, inside postposed and outside postposed). I&#039;m generally in favour of flexibility, but perhaps enough is enough. Put me down as a NO, although not a very loud one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo Vilva&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab&#039;s analysis of the (de)merits of the various options seems reasonable. My ranking of the options is, however, 2 3 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At this stage option 2 seems to be clearly the best choice and the difference between the other two is minimal. All the options are, however, acceptable to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. option 2 seems to be the basic option, the other two are just elaborations of it : 2 &amp;lt; 3 &amp;lt; 1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Basically 3 and 1 just add ways to express the same things. I am not very concerned about the lack of the forethought/afterthought distinction in option 2. Most afterthoughts are, after all, incidental in nature and can be considered external.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Option 2 will cause perhaps the greatest amount of changes in the existing texts but the corpus is not too large at the moment. In five years time the situation will be different, I hope. It is always easier to expand the language later on, if the need arises, because it doesn&#039;t necessarily mean changes to the existing texts. I think it is wiser to adopt option 2 now and check the need for and syntactical consequences of options 3 and 1 very carefully during the five-year waiting period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Not much goes to waste if the use of relative clauses is taught according to option 2 as it is the core option (besides being the easiest to teach).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. I have tried to estimate the consequences of using only the preposed form of internal relative clauses based on the knowledge I have about different languages. I do read reasonably well Finnish, English, German and Swedish. In addition I know the basic grammar of Japanese quite well (my reading isn&#039;t too good). There are great differences between these languages in the use of preposed clauses. English is quite limited in this respect, Finnish coming as a good second. Swedish and German are reasonable and in Japanese it seems to be the only possibility and is quite well developed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have often been quite frustrated writing Finnish because of the inherent limitations of the so-called pro-sentences which can be preposed. It takes extreme care in the formulation of the postposed relative clauses to make exactly the point I am after as it is all too easy to write ambivalent sentences. The possibility to use the preposed restrictives would usually solve the problems but the limitations in the Finnish system are too severe. In Japanese the problem is reversed. You can prepose complete sentences but differentiating between restrictive and incidental clauses may be difficult. I have never had, however, difficulties in understanding and using the preposed clauses of Japanese in general.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My general feeling is that the use of preposed relatives shouldn&#039;t cause unsurmountable difficulties.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The beauty of the preposed restrictive clauses is in that you define beforehand what you will be talking about - it&#039;s kind of having a local prenex. The incidental information is clearly separated and there is less chance for confusion. I feel this is so important that I&#039;d be willing to give up in exchange the nested relative clauses I have been advocating. (NB. Even though the nested relatives do offer some theoretical advantages, we may be asking for trouble in the form of lots of incomprehensible exercises of cleverness if we adopt them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also noteworthy that a sumti with preposed relatives is a very clearly demarcated entity and in x1 position there won&#039;t be the separation caused by a postposed relative between the main sumti and the selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. One of the weaknesses of option 3 is that the legality of the postposed internals - which many feel are more natural - is dependent on the existence of the internal quantifier. In the heat of a conversation it&#039;s all too easy to forget the rule and use the postposed form even when not appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In option 1 the need to juggle the KU&#039;s is a real drawback and a possible source of confusion. The flexibility of opt1 may be more illusory than real. It might well turn out that in practice this extra flexibility would be more of a burden. It is also more difficult to check the consequences of the adoption of option 1 to the whole sumti grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Option 2 has no apparent weaknesses and is in a way a quite balanced choice between two worlds as the restrictives will mostly be preposed and the incidentals postposed - so everybody ought to be happy :-).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think we ought to use the design of the language as a tool to enforce clearer ways of expression - as long as the adopted design doesn&#039;t hinder expression. How many of us do really customarily strive for exact expression? Most of the scientific articles I have read during the last 25 years have been full of ambiguous sentences - irrespective of the language they have been written in. Quite few authors seem to have the ambition, the talent and/or the time to hone their expressions to clarity. It would be a real bonus if a language were designed so as to gently push the users in the right direction. Maximum flexibility in a language sets also the greatest demands on the user to avoid ambiguous ways of expression. We are in a unique position and we ought to do our best to find the correct balance between regulation and flexibility. I feel that the expressive power of Lojban at its present stage of development is such that even if we adopt the most restrictive one of the options, it is quite impossible to prevent a really determined individual from presenting his thoughts in a muddled way - so I think we needn&#039;t worry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What particularly delights me is that your proposal in effect matches both much of my recent suggestion, and also the call I made the other month for pre-posed relatives. I did not expect this bounty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I understand le do&#039;o reluctance to make a change of this size this late, but I believe it is a noticeable improvement to the grammar, so I certainly support it. I definitely favour option 1) (which is the closest to my suggestion), but would accept 3). I am least happy with 2).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few more specific comments: &amp;quot;le pe ci mi broda&amp;quot; was exactly what I argued for the other month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have one or two queries about the grammar you exhibited: 1) the E-BNF has &amp;quot;gek&amp;quot; in both sumti-3 and sumti-6, which surprised me, and indeed it seems to be only in sumti-3 in the YACC. This prevents you from saying&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 *ci ge le broda gi ko&#039;a and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 *[ge le broda gi ko&#039;a ] poi melbi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which seem fine to me - they&#039;re not very intuitive, and if you really want them you can nest explicitly though sumti-6 with LAhE or else LE &amp;lt;quantifier&amp;gt; &amp;lt;sumti&amp;gt;. I take it that this is actually just a bug in the proposed E-BNF. [Yes]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) I found it a bit odd that both sumti-4 and sumti-5 can start with quantifier, but I take it LALR-1 can handle this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) I also found it odd that multiple &amp;quot;zi&#039;e zei claxu&amp;quot; [without-zi&#039;e] relative clauses are sometimes left-branching sisters of a constituent (sumti-tail), sometimes right-branching ditto (sumti-4) and sometimes a constituent in their own right (nested-relative-clauses). I accept that this is an artifact of writing grammar for YACC, but I think it is unfortunate for a &amp;quot;nu&#039;o&amp;quot; syntactic-semantic description of the language, not to mention any transformational account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The three options: I favour option 1) because it is the most orthogonal - I don&#039;t like the way that forethought/afterthought either have different meanings (2) or depend on other structures, whose relevance may not be immediately obvious (3). Note that the part of my argument which you have rejected is my claim that the unmarked position for incidentals should be external, while that for restrictives is internal; option 1 reflects that belief in the (more important pe&#039;i) case of restrictives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Preposed relatives: I didn&#039;t say that &amp;quot;postposed relatives are abnormal to all but English speakers in an AN (adjective-noun)-ordered language&amp;quot;! That&#039;s a much stronger claim than I ever intended to make. I said that some languages have only pre-posed relatives, and I don&#039;t see why Lojban should not extend its flexibility to allow those.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I note that we will have the option of teaching pseudo-possessives as a special case of preposed-relatives, thus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le mi zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
as elliptic for&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le pe mi zdani &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
just as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ze mensi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is elliptic for&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ze lo mensi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t say we have to do this, but it is an option.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I prefer options (1) and (3) greatly over option (2), perhaps with slight preference to (1). I don&#039;t like the restrictiveness of (2); I want to be able to put my relatives as afterthought even if they&#039;re inside, thank you. (3) seems kludgy, and I don&#039;t much mind the odd &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; thrown in here and there to make (1) work. For one thing, it&#039;s usually close to right even without the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, and for another, &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is a short, quick syllable, and we&#039;ve already gotten used to using it with the very common conjunction &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;lo nanmu ku joi lo ninmu&amp;quot;, etc.) And don&#039;t screw around with reversing &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;; much work for little gain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Infinite quantifiers on a sumti: I agree that this is a useless wart and that it should go. One quantifier is enough; if you want more, use &amp;quot;lo I lo J lo K broda&amp;quot;. [It went.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Relative clauses vs. logical connectives: I don&#039;t agree that it makes sense to attach a relative clause to logically connected sumti. Remember that logical connection expands to separate sentences. If this really needs to be done, use LAhE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Mark Shoulson responds: Oh, no. It is very sensible. I ran into it when I started playing with the Tower of Babel story. If you check your text, God descended to see &amp;quot;the city and the tower which the sons of Man had built.&amp;quot; I think we&#039;d all agree that that&#039;s a very natural construction, and that &amp;quot;which the sons of Man had built&amp;quot; obviously applies to both the city and the tower. Logically (and non-logically, for that matter) conjoined sumti are as natural to language as simple ones, and are as likely to be relativized as a unit. I used a LUhI/LUhU set to handle this case, as &amp;quot;lu&#039;a le tcadu .e le kamju lu&#039;u poi loi remna cu zbasu&amp;quot; (I thought the logical &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot; worked here, but maybe not...). It could be that termsets are the best answer to this type of problem, but it is not true that this type of construction is nonsensical or uncommon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Colin Fine replies: But John specifically referred to &amp;quot;logical connectives&amp;quot; and your example is better translated with a non-logical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Mark: Well, allowing one entails allowing the other, so it amounts to the same thing. And I did consider using a non-logical (perhaps &amp;quot;ce&amp;quot;), though I figured that the observation could be independent, simply &amp;quot;seeing one&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;seeing the other&amp;quot;, as if in two sentences, and thus using the logical &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;. Stylistic point of contention, of course, and I&#039;m open to correction.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Colin continues: Nonetheless, I agree with you [Mark] - a logical &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot; is possible there, though I don&#039;t think it is a good translation; and in any case, there are plenty of examples with &amp;quot;.a&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;.onai&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;ulu&amp;lt;&amp;lt; mi darno viska le xirma .onai le xasli .i le sego&#039;i cu lacpu le karce &amp;gt;&amp;gt;li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 e.g. &amp;quot; I see far off a horse or donkey(. It&#039;s) pulling a cart&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is one way to say it, and there is another with a connection inside the description, &amp;quot;le xirma jonai xasli noi lacpu le karce&amp;quot;, but I don&#039;t know how to get it with connected sumti and a &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot;, which is what I want to use. (The Lojban above does not express whether the second sentence is restrictive or incidental).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbab: Non-connected sentences are inherently incidental.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Mark replies: The only way, currently, to do it is using LUhI/LUhU. Pick the one that makes the most sense. I&#039;d go with &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot;. Thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi darno viska lu&#039;a le xirma .onai le xasli lu&#039;u poi/noi ke&#039;a lacpu le karce&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Simple enough, but I suspect common enough to warrant finding a way to do it without the &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; and unelidable &amp;quot;lu&#039;u&amp;quot;. Can our tired, overworked &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; help? No, I think it&#039;s already in use in that place...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[As a result of the above discussion, option 1 was selected, and the proposal was modified to account for the comments.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Usage Questions and Grammar/Word Proposals Related to Usage==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===New JOI===&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has it ever been considered that some of the members of selma&#039;o BAI might be better construed as members of a conjunctive selma&#039;o such as JOI? In particular we have &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;me&#039;a&amp;quot;. To borrow a natural language analogy, aren&#039;t these much more like conjunctions than like prepositions, much more like non-logical connectives than like sumti tcita?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Take a look at a sentence with a JOI connective:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (1) mi djica lo vanju ku ce lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I want the wine and the water.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here both wine and water are se djica. This sentence can be expanded to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (2) mi djica lo vanju .ice mi djica lo djacu.&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I want the wine and also I want the water.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;force&amp;quot; of the x2 place of djica is distributed to both sumti linked by ce. Now look at a sentence containing semau &amp;quot;more than&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (3) mi djica lo vanju ne semau lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I want the wine more than (I want) the water.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here the sumti &amp;quot;lo vanju&amp;quot; is the x2 place of djica, and &amp;quot;semau lo djacu&amp;quot; is simply linked to it as a modifier. Awkward!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is clear semantically, though it is not true grammatically in this case, that lo djacu is a kind of &amp;quot;spiritual&amp;quot; x2 place of djica. Why not make it one explicitly? Think how much clearer and easier it would be to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (4a) mi djica lo djacu ku mau lo vanju&lt;br /&gt;
 I want the water, exceeded by the wine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (4b) mi djica lo vanju ku semau lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
 I want the water, more than the wine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- regarding these as JOI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this way they could even be used in tanru, just as the members of JOI are. We could say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (5) le karce cu xunre semau narju&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;The car was more red than orange.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the current definition of the grammar, I can&#039;t even imagine how to say something like this. You can see how much easier it is to do if we change the grammar of mau and me&#039;a.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sentences too could be linked much more easily this way. We could say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 (6) le karce cu xunre .isemau ri narju.&lt;br /&gt;
 The car is red. More than it is orange.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think the main reason why &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;me&#039;a&amp;quot; were included in BAI in the first place is that when the list of gismu were sorted to look for candidates for inclusion in the BAI set, &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; seemed obvious choices. But I think it&#039;s fairly clear that they are conjunctive and not modificatory in nature, as evidenced by the current awkwardness of their usage. Please consider changing their status. (I am currently looking through BAI to see if any others of its members need to be put into a new conjunctive selma&#039;o.) Actually, zo me&#039;a du lu semau li&#039;u .ije zo mau du lu seme&#039;a li&#039;u. This is a little redundant. I suggest me&#039;a for &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot; and mau for &amp;quot;more than&amp;quot;. This is opposite to the current definition, but seems more intuitively correct. Their conversions, seme&#039;a and semau would be unnecessary. Keeping their place structure integrity would be irrelevant, since they would no longer be BAI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try &amp;quot;playing around&amp;quot; with these as conjunctive cmavo, and see if they aren&#039;t much easier to use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Below are a few sentences designed to show the potential range of use of my suggested definition of me&#039;a and mau:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(7) mi mau la djan djica lenu klama ta&lt;br /&gt;
I more than John want to go there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(8) mi djica lenu klama ta .imau la djan. go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
I want to go there more than John does.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(9) mi djica lenu klama ta me&#039;a la rom.&lt;br /&gt;
I want to go there less than to Rome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(10) mi pumauca nelci lo vanju &lt;br /&gt;
I was more than I am fond of wine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(11) mi dzukla mau bajykla &lt;br /&gt;
I am more a walker than a runner.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps you can think of some more structures in which mau and me&#039;a might be useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh, my. &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;me&#039;a&amp;quot; as JOIs. The scary part is that it makes a lot of sense. I don&#039;t feel strongly enough to join Higley in calling for their re-classification, mostly because it&#039;s a major change in concept and in syntax, and it would invalidate a lot of text. But if by some bizarre set of circumstances reclassifying them gains support, I wouldn&#039;t be opposed, much. Gotta think about this more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I accept the point you are making in [Example 1], but the example is flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jo&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ce&amp;quot; are non-logical connectives delivering the three basic types of sumti: individuals, masses, sets. (This is one of Lojban&#039;s few obligatory grammatical categories, and, interestingly, it is not shared by any other language that I know of).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djica lo vanju ku ce lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
 I want the set containing wine and water&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
does not say anything about wanting wine or water. Use &#039;jo&#039;u&#039; or else use &#039;lu&#039;i&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same applies to the &#039;.ice&#039; construction - except that it is very unclear what on earth it means. I think it is constructing a set of sentences, but I&#039;m not sure. In any case, it has been well established that you cannot in general expand non-logical connectives [into multiple sentences] in this way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of which does not affect your point ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The effect you want in 4a/4b can be achieved with the current grammar, admittedly less elegantly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djica lo vanju .esemaubo lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
asserts that both are wanted and that there is a &amp;quot;semau&amp;quot; between them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Note that this gives a possibility of variation lacking in your method:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djica lo vanju .anaisemaubo lo djacu&lt;br /&gt;
 I want wine only if, but more than, water.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your version of (6) is the form most closely approached by the current grammar:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le karce cu xunre .isemaubo ri narju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What your suggestion does ignore is the possibility that there are uses of &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; which are genuinely sumti tcita (attached to a selbri). I agree these are not frequent, but there are some:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi gleki semau tu&#039;a le prujeftu&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;I am happier than last week&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably you can always find a paraphrase (often using &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;), but the fact is that there are current uses of &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; which your proposal does not meet (note that you can almost always paraphrase a sumti tcita with the corresponding gismu, but this does not make them useless).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If they were changed to JOI, [using &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;me&#039;a&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;semau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;seme&#039;a&amp;quot;] would make some sense: place structures for most BAI are counter-intuitive until you understand the principle. However, note that JOIk in the grammar has an optional &#039;SE&#039; anyway - at present the only asymmetric JOI is &#039;ce&#039;o&#039;, but conversion is permitted for all of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[On Greg&#039;s (7), (8), (9):] These are all good, but can be expressed with &amp;quot;[j]esemaubo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[On Greg&#039;s (10):] This is exciting. I can&#039;t see an easy way of doing it at present. The best I can think of is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mipepu .esemaubo mipeca cu nelci lo vanju&lt;br /&gt;
 I of the past, more than I of the present, am fond of wine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[On Greg&#039;s (11):] Poor example - I took that as &amp;quot;I walk more than I run&amp;quot;, which is different in English, but the principle stands. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi dzukla gi&#039;esemaubo bajykla &lt;br /&gt;
- but that has a different structure, because yours is one tanru, mine is not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This example also shows the general problem with &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; - the scale is not expressed. This is a problem with the existing &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; too, but it is possible to add a &amp;quot;ci&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ji&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase. I&#039;m not sure that would work with &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; in JOI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree [with Mark] that it makes a lot of sense, and is quite attractive. I don&#039;t agree that &amp;quot;it&#039;s a major change in concept and in syntax&amp;quot; - on the contrary, it is shifting two words from one selma&#039;o to another (existing) one. It would invalidate a lot of text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, I think that unless Greg can convince me that he can cope with existing structures, I will not support the change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Result: Change 28 was proposed in response to this issue, but currently there is no support to implement it. Changes 30 and 31 indirectly derive from this change. The ensuing discussions on the topic have led to significant rewriting of material in the draft textbook, and a couple of the minor grammar changes above, which enhance the expression of joined sumti in the &#039;termset&#039; construct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===kau===&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I understand it, the cmavo &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; indicates that the value of that which it &amp;quot;modifies&amp;quot; is known, presumably to the speaker, but there are instances where this is apparently not the case. Thus if I say&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djuno le du&#039;u pakau le prenu pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
 I know that one of the people walked on the floor, and I know which one.  &lt;br /&gt;
 I know which one of the people walked on the floor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am indicating that the referent of &amp;quot;pakau le prenu&amp;quot; is known (to me). Thus &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; means something like &amp;quot;referent known&amp;quot;. And if I just say &amp;quot;pakau le prenu pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&amp;quot; apparently the meaning is the same as when &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; was the main selbri. And here&#039;s where we run into a problem. How do we know to whom the referent is known? Is &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; somehow connected to the x1 sumti of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; and any other related gismu? For if I say&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la djos. djuno le du&#039;u pakau le prenu pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
apparently it is to Joe (and not to me?) that the referent of &amp;quot;pakau le prenu&amp;quot; is known. If &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; does not always indicate that it is the speaker who knows the referent, what is the standard for determining this? For&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la djos djuno le du&#039;u pakau le prenu pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
could mean&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Joe knows that one of the people walked on the floor, and I know which one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this seems contrary to intuition. What is the standard? Is there one?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the examples that came with the article on &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;, it was used with words which might be classed as &amp;quot;indefinites&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;interrogatives&amp;quot;, and apparently these were used interchangeably. For our purposes, an indefinite is a word like &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;, while an interrogative is a word such as &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; (which, as I&#039;ll show, is a close relative of &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;). I think it would be useful and advantageous to split the use of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; as it is used with indefinites and interrogatives. With interrogatives, &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; could be used to ask a question, while indicating that the speaker already knows the answer. Thus a teacher could ask her students&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi makau zukte makau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What am I doing and to what end?  and her students would realize that she wasn&#039;t just asking this for her (mental) health.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With indefinites on the other hand (and I class such things as &amp;quot;pa le prenu&amp;quot; among them), &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; would perform its simple duty of letting us know that the referent is known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi zo&#039;ekau zukte zo&#039;ekau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
means something like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 I&#039;m doing something-known-to-me for some purpose-known-to-me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And thus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  mi djuno le du&#039;u do du zo&#039;ekau&lt;br /&gt;
 I know that you are someone-known-to-me.  &lt;br /&gt;
 I know who you are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
becomes easy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Has anyone yet noted the strong relationship between &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot;? The former indicates that the referent is known, and the latter asks for clarification. Both can be used to express &amp;quot;which one of the people&amp;quot; but in semantically different situations. Still, the relationship between them is clear, and perhaps worth exploring further.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also note that &amp;quot;zo&#039;eki&#039;a&amp;quot; is virtually identical - if not completely identical - to &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; in meaning. In fact, it is probably possible to form the whole range of interrogatives by affixing &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot; to their corresponding indefinites. (Japanese, I believe, does something similar.) I am not suggesting that this be done. It would be unnecessarily verbose. But it is worth noting the relationship.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Who does &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; refer to?] An outstanding question. I have held that the knower of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is the knower of the bridi it is in, implicit or not. &amp;quot;John knows which one.&amp;quot; I also wished that extended to observative attitudinals such as &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot;, which gave rise to reaction from Lojbab. This issue is unresolved, but I agree with you on the above solution being counter-intuitive. &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; exist as (kludgy) patchwork disambiguators at the moment. But no consensus on default interpretation was reached.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope this distinction [between interrogatives and indefinites], which is pretty elegant and clear, wasn&#039;t passed over in the specification of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; (although I remember at the time that I felt I understood &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; better than Lojban Central :). But yes, that&#039;s correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, as John Cowan will no doubt point out, &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is not restricted to knowing/&amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot;, but can extend to all sorts of analogous concepts like believing, opining etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t believe that &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot; works like that at all. As things stand at present, all discursives, like all attitudinals (other than &amp;quot;pei&amp;quot;) strictly refer to the speaker&#039;s intentions/quality of knowledge/attitude. I have on occasion wanted a way to indicate somebody else&#039;s attitude etc., but I&#039;m not convinced that it is desirable. (&amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot; is about whether the speaker&#039;s attitude relates to &amp;quot;vo&#039;a&amp;quot;, not about whose attitude it is).&amp;lt;ref name=xxpa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On reflection, I think [Greg&#039;s] is a good distinction. However, if this is the case, then &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; does not, as I thought, remove the &#039;performative&#039; quality of question-words (&amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; etc) - then various texts of mine, and I think others, are wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djuno le du&#039;u le cukta cu zvati makau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is still asking a question of the hearer, which was not my previous understanding of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is not restricted to &amp;quot;knowing/djuno, but can extend to all sorts of analogous concepts like believing, opining etc.&amp;quot; Asking, too!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Iain Alexander:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; was the subject of the first comment I posted on the list. My interpretation of John Cowan&#039;s response is that &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; isn&#039;t about &amp;quot;knowledge&amp;quot;, it&#039;s about abstraction, in particular, the identity of the concept it&#039;s attached to. So &amp;quot;lekau prenu&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the identity of the person&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since it&#039;s a UI, it can be attached to almost anything, to denote the identity of, e.g. a logical connective. The current official position is that exactly which member of the selma&#039;o (or presumably, which gismu) is used is not important, although it might indicate something about the type of value expected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With this interpretation, &amp;quot;le pakau prenu&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;the number of people&amp;quot;, i.e. essentially the same as &amp;quot;leni prenu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In practice, it frequently occurs inside a &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; abstraction, with the side-effect of &#039;inverting&#039; the whole construct to refer to the identity of whatever is tagged, within the given context. To my mind, this means it changes the meaning of &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot;. Further complications arise if the &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; is nested, in which case subscripts need to be used to indicate that the &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is relative to an outer &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot;. Things might be simpler if a separate cmavo, say &amp;quot;xau&amp;quot;, in selma&#039;o NU, was allocated for this usage, meaning &amp;quot;x1 is the identity of whatever is tagged with &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; in [bridi]&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora LeChevalier: My understanding of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is that it flags the &#039;key item&#039; for any bridi. Thus,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djica lenu pakau le prenu pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
doesn&#039;t say that I know the one who walked on the floor, but rather that I desire that particular one. It can be used to say &amp;quot;John is the one I want to walk on the floor&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi djica lenu pakau le prenu ku po&#039;u la djan. pu dzuli&#039;u le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;zo&#039;eki&#039;a&amp;quot; can appear after usage of &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; as more of a metalinguistic comment (What do you mean &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; can&#039;t be the right word here!) and is thus similar to &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; has no such function. Using &amp;quot;zo&#039;eki&#039;a&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; would deny the important usage that prompted invention of &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot; is a request - for clarification - and would be inappropriate except in response to someone else using the words that you are questioning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xxpa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Iain comments: Regarding Colin&#039;s comment on &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot;,] as I understand it, the way to indicate someone else&#039;s attitude etc. is to use something like &amp;quot;sei [vo&#039;a] jinvi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Colin responds: or &amp;quot;fi&#039;o jinvi ko&#039;a&amp;quot;...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You can do this with most UI, but it sometimes needs some thought to find a suitable brivla. Anybody got any ideas about the selbri corresponding to &amp;quot;.ai&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Iain replies: The closest I&#039;ve come up with is &amp;quot;terzu&#039;e&amp;quot;. As mentioned in my comments on Nick&#039;s mekso translation, &amp;quot;ca&#039;e&amp;quot; isn&#039;t very easy either.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojbab: When we first created the attitudinal list, we had a gismu or brivla equivalent for each attitudinal - this was part of the criteria in choosing the original gismu list: a primitive emotion word should have a primitive root. The redesign of the attitudinal space, and the major expansion that result therefrom kinda messed this up. The distinctions that are permitted now using attitudinals are more diverse than there are yet defined gismu and brivla in that semantic space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;By recollection, the old meaning of &amp;quot;.ai&amp;quot; could simply be handled by &amp;quot;balvi&amp;quot;. The sense that JCB had for &amp;quot;.ai&amp;quot; was like unto the American sailor&#039;s response &amp;quot;Aye, Aye! Sir!&amp;quot;, hence the cognate. But we certainly now have the capacity to distinguish between &amp;quot;intent&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;prediction&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;expectation&amp;quot; using the attitudinals, and &amp;quot;balvi&amp;quot; no longer satisfies me for &amp;quot;.ai&amp;quot;. My choice of the top of my head would be &amp;quot;platu&amp;quot; using the new place structure that puts a planner in x1, instead of a plan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;As for &amp;quot;ca&#039;e&amp;quot;, I can see a lot of these questions coming. Someone want to tackle a list of gismu/brivla for the entire attitudinal list? Editted and enhanced, it will probably be added to the dictionary-in-progress. &amp;quot;ca&#039;e&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t seem that hard: &amp;quot;smuni xusra&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;smuni cuxna&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;smuni jdice&amp;quot; seem like tanru on which to base a lujvo for &amp;quot;define&amp;quot;. Hmm. Add in &amp;quot;sruma&amp;quot; in combination with the above to add to the possibilities.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==le lojbo se ciska (cont)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Speaking of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;, the following Lojban text makes use of the word. See Nick&#039;s footnoted comment for his further views on &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is Colin Fine&#039;s translation into Lojban of a familiar children&#039;s fairy tale. It is the first text to be vetted under the &#039;editor de jour&#039; concept described in JL17. Nick Nicholas served as the reviewing editor. In this case Nick recommended publication, making some comments. Colin declined to make Nick&#039;s suggested changes, which therefore appear as footnoted comments. All lujvo have been updated to the new rafsi list enclosed with this issue (manually by Lojbab, so please forgive any errors).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The translation immediately follows, unlike our normal practice, due to the length of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
®lu le nolraixline ga&#039;u le dembi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmene di&#039;e noi se finti la xans. krIstian. Andrsn.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
=.itu&#039;e tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lisri le nolrainanla&amp;lt;ref name=reso /&amp;gt; goi ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a djica lo nolraixli =.i ri mulno be loka nolraixli be&#039;o gi&#039;o se zanru ko&#039;a =.isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;a fe&#039;eroroi litru gi&#039;e sisku pa go&#039;i =.iku&#039;i roroi nabmi =.i sa&#039;e ge lo nolraixli cu raumei ju&#039;o gi lo ni ri nolraixli ku ko&#039;a na se birti .!uu =.i roroiku le no&#039;e drani vau&amp;lt;ref name=mino /&amp;gt; =.i ko&#039;a ki&#039;u se&#039;irzdakla gi&#039;e badri lenu na&#039;epu&#039;i cpacu lo nolraixli mulno&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pa vanci cu ki jaica ke selte&#039;a vilti&#039;a =.i lindi joi savru joi carvi joi camcilce =.i zo&#039;e darxi le tcavro =.i le sorna&#039;a nolraitru ki&#039;u minde lenu le vorme cu karbi&#039;o =.i le bartu cu nolraixli =.i ri selkecmlu .!uuse&#039;inai ri&#039;a tu&#039;a lo carvi .ebo lo xlali vilti&#039;a =.i mo&#039;ini&#039;a flecu lo djacu vi le kerfa .e le taxfu =.i flecu ji&#039;a pa&#039;o le cutci file cucti&#039;e le cucyzbi [tosa&#039;a pamoi pinka toi] =.i cusku fa ra ledu&#039;u ra nolraixli mulno&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ®lu .!ue =.i cipra =.ai li&#039;u¯ se seisku le sorna&#039;a truspe goi fo&#039;e =.ije ri bacru noda ku&#039;i gi&#039;e klama le sipku&#039;a gi&#039;e vimcu ro le ckabu&#039;u gi&#039;e punji le pa dembi le ckazbe =.ijebabo fo&#039;e cpacu reno vresraki&#039;e gi&#039;e cpana punji ri le dembi =.i pa&#039;aku reno datkypi&#039;u gairki&#039;e co&#039;a cpana le sraki&#039;e =.i ro go&#039;i cu se vreta le nolraixli goi fo&#039;a ca&#039;o le nicte&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o co&#039;i le cerni cu preti fo fo&#039;a fe leli&#039;i fo&#039;a capu&amp;lt;ref name=mipa /&amp;gt; sipna ge&#039;ekau&amp;lt;ref name=mire /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu .!oicairo&#039;o [seisa&#039;a selsku be fo&#039;a] =.i mi su&#039;eso&#039;uroi .!uu ga&#039;orga&#039;i le kanla ca&#039;o piro le nicte =.i ?ma za&#039;anai ?pausai nenri le ckana&amp;lt;ref name=mimi /&amp;gt; =.i mi puca&#039;o vreta le raktu jdari =.i piro lemi xadni ri&#039;a bunre joi blanu =.i to&#039;e zdile .!oisai li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i seni&#039;ibo co&#039;i djuno ledu&#039;u fo&#039;a nolraixli je&#039;a mulno ki&#039;u lenu fo&#039;a&amp;lt;ref name=mivo /&amp;gt; fi le reno sraki&#039;e ku jo&#039;u le reno gairki&#039;e cu ganse fe le dembi =.i lo ckaji be loka ganse du&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu nolraixli mulno ju&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le nolrainanla goi ko&#039;a co&#039;a speni fo&#039;a =.i ko&#039;a seki&#039;u djuno ledu&#039;u vo&#039;a kansa le mulno be loka nolraixli =.i le dembi ba se punji fi la larku&#039;a [tosa&#039;a remoi pinka toi] =.i caji&#039;a go&#039;i&amp;lt;ref name=mimu /&amp;gt; =.ijo noda capu vimcu .!iacu&#039;i tu&#039;u ni&#039;o di&#039;u jetnu lisri .!uo.ui&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o di&#039;e pinka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i pamai le lujvo po&#039;u zo cucyzbi cu satci te fanva fe ®zoi.dy. Naesen paa Skoen .dy.¯ =.i mi nelci le di&#039;u bangrdanska tanru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i remai [tu&#039;e la larku&#039;a po&#039;u ®la&#039;o .dy. Kunstkammeret .dy.¯ cu ga&#039;orbi&#039;o ca le nanca be li pabirepa gi&#039;eseri&#039;abo ca&#039;a teke carmi morji caze&#039;u le lisri =.i le&#039;i ca&#039;a jmaji noi selzda le tolci&#039;o ke nolraitru ckusro dinju cu selcmi so&#039;i vrici ne mu&#039;u lo prucedra lisri ku ce lo naiske lisri ku ce lo rarske cizra tu&#039;u] =.i di&#039;u se krasi le pinka ne bau la dansk. fo la xans. briks. jo&#039;u la .anker. iensn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin&#039;s translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Princess on the Pea&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was once a prince, who wanted a princess for himself, but she had to be a real princess. So he went all round the world trying to find one, but there was always some hindrance: there were plenty of princesses, but whether they were real princesses, he could never be sure - there was always something that wasn&#039;t quite right. So he went home and was sad, because he so much wanted a genuine princess.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One evening there was a frightful storm. There was lightning and thunder, the rain poured down, it was dreadful! There was a knocking on the town gate, and the old king ordered it opened.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was a princess standing outside. But God how she looked in the rain and the storm! The water ran down her hair and her clothes, and went in at the toes of her shoes and out at the heels. And she said she was a real princess.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;We&#039;ll see about that!&amp;quot; thought the old queen, but she said nothing. She went to the bedroom, took off all the bedclothes, and put a pea on the base of the bed. Then she took twenty mattresses and put them on top of the pea, and then twenty eiderdowns on top of the mattresses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And that&#039;s where the princess was to lie that night.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the morning, they asked her how she had slept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Oh, terribly!&amp;quot;, said the princess. &amp;quot;I hardly closed my eyes the whole night! God knows what there was in the bed! I was lying on something hard, and I&#039;m black and blue everywhere! It&#039;s quite horrible!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So they could see that she was a real princess, since she had felt the pea through twenty mattresses and twenty quilts. Nobody but a real princess could be that sensitive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prince took her for his wife, for now he knew that he had a real princess, and the pea was put into the Kunstkammer, where it is still to be seen, if nobody has taken it away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You see, it&#039;s a true story!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note (from Blix &amp;amp; Jensen): The Kunstkammer (&amp;quot;art chamber&amp;quot;) closed in 1821 and was therefore fresh in memory at the time of the tale. The collection was housed in the old Royal Library, and contained many different things: old sagas, ethnographic tales, curiosities of natural history, and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia Rutiser, of the DC-area Lojban group, attempted her own independent translation, though she did not complete it. Since Sylvia is a moderately skilled Lojbanist, her effort is a reasonable standard for a learning Lojbanist to strive for. Significant differences between the following and Colin&#039;s version of what he intended, are areas where either Colin wasn&#039;t clear, or used a construct that even Sylvia could not figure out (Sylvia admitted having some unanswered questions when she completed the translation; in some cases, the wording may be strange due to these questions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The princess and the bean&amp;quot; names this that was invented by Hans Christian Anderson.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a story of the prince. He desires a princess. She is complete in the quality of &amp;quot;princessness&amp;quot; if and only if she is approved by him (I question this). Therefore, he travels everywhere and seeks such a princess. However, there are always problems. To be precise, there were enough princesses, and he was not certain if they were all princesses. Always something was not correct. Therefore, he went home and was sad about not being able to get a complete princess.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Set time) One evening it was stormy. Lightning and rain and intense wildness. Something hits the city gate. The old king therefore commands that the door be opened. The outside thing is a princess. She was pitiful seeming because of the rain and storm. Water flowed off her hair and clothing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Surprise! Test. Intent&amp;quot; is said to herself by the old queen. And she said nothing and goes to the sleeproom and removes all the bed-cloth and puts one bean on the bed-frame. She then takes twenty mattresses and sets them on the bean. Each respectively twenty duck-feather cover cushions upon the mattresses. All of this is reclined on by the princess through the night&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the morning she is questioned about the experience of her sleeping (emotion unspecified)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Ouch! she said I my eyes all night. Why? I observe ( question follows) in the bed. I continuously reclined on the troubling hard thing. All of my body (therefore) is brown mixed with blue. Not funny. Complaint!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore it is known that she is a princess truly complete, because (reason) the event that she (through 20 mattresses and 20 coverlets) felt the bean. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=reso&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Colin chose to base his words for &amp;quot;princess&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;prince&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;nanla&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nixli&amp;quot;, which explicitly denote immaturity, even though it seems from the story context that the prince, at least, is an adult (he is taking the princess as a wife, and it appears to be his volition rather than an arranged marriage in the royal youth. Better choices are &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ninmu&amp;quot;, which explicitly do not imply maturity. &amp;quot;nakni&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;fetsi&amp;quot; might also do, though they do not necessarily imply &#039;human&#039;; however, &amp;quot;person-ness&amp;quot; is implied by the &amp;quot;royal-&amp;quot; status - the story could easily be told about a non-human but vaguely humanoid intelligent species.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mino&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: Hm. Because I equate the referent of &amp;quot;lo nolraixli&amp;quot; with the earlier one in the tale (He seeks a princess), this sounds like &amp;quot;the princess is enough&amp;quot;. But of course, the Lojban doesn&#039;t say that at all; &amp;quot;nolraixli&amp;quot; is quantified afresh here. Still, might it not make more sense to say &amp;quot;raumei lo nolraixli&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;loi nolraixli cu raumei&amp;quot;? I don&#039;t recall the place structure of &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; right now. And I&#039;d have said &amp;quot;roroiku da no&#039;e drani&amp;quot; (note that, for quantification, the &amp;quot;roroiku&amp;quot; has to go before the &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;, else we assert that there is one thing always awry, rather than one thing each time. (We do need a quantification paper badly).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mipa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: John Cowan has expressed the opinion that, under the rules as interpreted by his tense paper, cmavo compounds based on &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; no longer have perfective intent.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mire&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: This remains a clever use of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;, and should get mentioned in any write-up about it. By the way, from my reading, it does seem that lambda calculus is the best way to explain &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;. For those unfamiliar with it: lambda calculus explains math at a deep level. &#039;LAMBDA(x.x+x)&#039; is the function taking x as an argument and returning x+x. Lambda(x.x+x) 1 is a function application to 1, and evaluates to 2. The lambda expression itself is a function waiting for an argument. Lojban selbri aren&#039;t lambda function; their arguments are filled with &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;, or explicit values. In &amp;quot;I know who did it&amp;quot;, though, the predicate &amp;quot;did it&amp;quot; is crying out for an argument to fill in x1: (LAMBDA &amp;quot;zo&#039;ekau&amp;quot;.&amp;quot;zo&#039;ekau gasnu ri&amp;quot;). For that matter, a lot of the elliptical places, as John Cowan has mentioned, get explained by it: Being a parent is difficult - not being a parent of John, or of Mary, but (LAMBDA &amp;quot;zo&#039;ekau&amp;quot;.&amp;quot;mi rirni zo&#039;ekau&amp;quot;).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mimi&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I don&#039;t like &amp;quot;ga&#039;orga&#039;i&amp;quot;, but that&#039;s a matter of taste. I rather like the &amp;quot;za&#039;anai ?pausai&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mivo&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I think you need a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;ki&#039;u&amp;quot;: her feeling the pea does not cause her to be a princess, but causes them to know it. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mimu&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I don&#039;t know about &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; - what is true now is that the pea remains there, not that it is still being placed there.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Empathy in Attitudinals - A Proposal by John Cowan==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This proposal deals with an issue discussed in footnotes from the last technical article on &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;, though the proposal arose separately.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As part of reviewing the cmavo list for inclusion in the dictionary, I have been thinking about the current uses of attitudinals. As originally specified, the attitudinal indicators of selma&#039;o UI were solely to specify the speaker&#039;s attitudes. Thus &amp;quot;.ui&amp;quot; expresses the speaker&#039;s happiness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, there has been an increasing pull toward allowing attitudinals, suitably marked, to express other people&#039;s feelings as well. In particular, &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; has been employed as an attitudinal modifier for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find this use objectionable for two reasons: 1) It conflicts with the original purpose of &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; as described in the attitudinal paper; 2) support for emotional empathy should not be done with a negated cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original purpose of &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot; was to indicate that the object (not the subject) of the feeling was oneself rather than another. Thus, where &amp;quot;.au&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;.ause&#039;i&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;I want it&amp;quot; whereas &amp;quot;.ause&#039;inai&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;I want you to have it&amp;quot;. This function obviously conflicts with using &amp;quot;.ause&#039;inai&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;You want it&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There exists a general mechanism for expressing complex attitudes: &amp;quot;sei&amp;quot; followed by a bridi with limited syntax. With this machinery, &amp;quot;You want it&amp;quot; becomes &amp;quot;sei do djica&amp;quot;. However, it is often hard to decide exactly which selbri should be used to express a particular attitude, and for the case of attributing feelings to another, some additional support may be useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some natural languages support this feature to a limited degree. I am told that in Swedish the word &amp;quot;uffda&amp;quot; signifies &amp;quot;.oiro&#039;o in empathy&amp;quot; - you say it not when you stub your toe but when you observe someone else do so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The proposal was formulated as: we propose &amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; as an attitudinal indicating &amp;quot;speaker empathy&amp;quot;, secondarily allowing someone to attribute attitudinals to others in speech or text. The former meaning of that cmavo (in selma&#039;o KOhA), which has seen no actual use, has been assigned to &amp;quot;do&#039;i&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The empathy attitudinal is something whose time has come: do it, John, do it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Carter:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have found it useful for attitudinals to describe the attitude of the subject of the bridi which the attitudinal is in. In the most common usages this will be the speaker, and a fair number of other-person usages are also subsumed automatically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course this was all worked out for Old Loglan. Some of the new UI&#039;s in Lojban may be more speaker-tropic than the old ones - and in fact I was very tempted to make a blanket exception that .ua- .ue-.ui-.uo-.uu always referred to the speaker, not the subject. Also there was a strong distinction between &amp;quot;discursives&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;attitudinals&amp;quot;, and the item related by the discursives was usually or always &amp;quot;the previous discourse&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;the speaker&amp;quot;. (Example: le bi&#039;u cribe = the bear which is absent from the previous discourse, not the bear which the speaker is not familiar with.) The point of these weaselwords is that we should specify with each UI a default argument selected from speaker, subject or previous discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I accept the idea, most especially for narration, such as Ivan&#039;s translation (in JL17), where the attitudinals expressed are those of the characters, and not of the author. I suggest that a combination of &amp;quot;sei&amp;quot; metalinguistics and the proposed &amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; could be used to indicate whose point of view is indicated in freely inserted attitudinals. Or a long scope attitudinal attached to &amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; at the beginning of a story like Ivan&#039;s, merely leads to the obvious interpretation that all attitudes expressed in a story are those attributed empathically by the speaker to the characters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, I will strongly encourage the emphasis on empathy, and not that you are in any way claiming an attitude on the part of another person. We never really know what another person is thinking, or feeling; we can only empathically identify with them. hence an empathic attitude is still the speaker&#039;s attitude, and the Lojban attitudinal system remains consistent. Note that there are cultures where it is taboo, or even impossible in the language, to express the thoughts/feelings of another person, on the grounds that this is either impossible or an invasion of personal space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Summary of cmavo Changes in selma&#039;o UI==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a list of changes to &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot; UI since the attitudinal paper, for those who track such things:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; (loosely speaking) was based on &amp;quot;kluza&amp;quot;, a malglico metaphor; it has been replaced by &amp;quot;sa&#039;e&amp;quot; (based on &amp;quot;satci&amp;quot;) with meanings reversed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jo&#039;a&amp;quot; was introduced as the opposite of &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot;: it specifies that the text is correct as written, like English &amp;quot;[sic]&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na&#039;inai&amp;quot; would mean the same thing, but seemed too confusing as an affirmation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;pau&amp;quot; is an optional signal at the beginning of a question, and was omitted from the attitudinal paper in error. &amp;quot;paunai&amp;quot; signals a rhetorical question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; is attached to the focus of an indirect question: it does not connote knowledge particularly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;e&#039;e&amp;quot; was changed to &amp;quot;competence - incompetence&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;re&#039;e&amp;quot; was added as a new category modifier, parallel to the &amp;quot;ro&#039;V&amp;quot; series; it means &amp;quot;spiritual&amp;quot; and takes the place of old &amp;quot;e&#039;e&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;vu&#039;i&amp;quot; (virtue - sin) was changed to &amp;quot;vu&#039;e&amp;quot; to match the new gismu &amp;quot;vrude&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;se&#039;a&amp;quot; is a new attitudinal modifier meaning &amp;quot;self-sufficiency - dependency&amp;quot;, based on demonstrated need in Japanese and other cultures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;be&#039;u&amp;quot; is a new attitudinal modifier meaning &amp;quot;lack - satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ta&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ta&#039;unai&amp;quot; were switched in meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The former term &amp;quot;observational&amp;quot; has been replaced with &amp;quot;evidential&amp;quot;, to agree with linguistics norms, and to avoid confusion with &amp;quot;observative&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;se&#039;o&amp;quot; is a new evidential meaning &amp;quot;I know by internal experience (dream, vision, or personal revelation)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ka&#039;u&amp;quot; is a new evidential meaning &amp;quot;I know by cultural means&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;su&#039;a&amp;quot; is now both an evidential and a discursive, displacing the old discursive for &amp;quot;in general - in particular&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ju&#039;a&amp;quot; is a new vague evidential: &amp;quot;I state&amp;quot;; particularly useful in &amp;quot;ju&#039;apei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;How do you know?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;bi&#039;u&amp;quot; signals new information: &amp;quot;lebi&#039;u cribe&amp;quot; is a newly mentioned bear, as distinct from &amp;quot;lebi&#039;unai cribe&amp;quot; which is a bear we&#039;ve heard about before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; newly assigned to indicate empathic identification of another&#039;s feelings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;po&#039;o&amp;quot; has been proposed as a discursive for the sense of &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; meaning exclusively, or uniquely, within a context. There is some debate about this addition, since there is no way to specify the context using the UI grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Punctuation proposals from Nick Nicholas==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To the current list of optional punctuation symbols, used to highlight sentence structure, I consider worthy of attention:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;!&amp;quot; for UI words. Given the presence of &amp;quot;.&amp;quot; before VV UI-words, maybe limit his to CVV UI-words. &amp;quot;!ca&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;.ui&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;.!ui&amp;quot; &amp;quot;{&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;}&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;[&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;]&amp;quot; to highlight structure of tanru and of various grammar constructs like POI-clauses. &amp;quot;le cmima {bele [{vofli bo minji} jeva&#039;i vinji] jenmi be&#039;o} {poi vitke loi xendo} cu bebna&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan has reemphasized the need for a symbol to indicate the start of a sentence, given that &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; is not distinctive enough. The most appropriate such mark would be a section-symbol or a paragraph-symbol (respectively, the two interlocking S&#039;s on top of each other, and the reversed filled-in P ). Neither of these is ASCII. I don&#039;t see why we don&#039;t revive John Hodges&#039;s proposal, in JL10, that we revive the &amp;quot;=&amp;quot; for that purpose. If we need something chunkier, perhaps a &amp;quot;@&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;#&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These [use of &amp;quot;{&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;}&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;[&amp;quot;,&amp;quot;]&amp;quot;] are OK, but anyone using them must be warned that they never affect the official interpretations [should there be contradiction].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chris Handley:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I tend to agree with John, but more strongly. In any situation where there are two ways of specifying something (structure, relationships, dates, whatever) one of them will be wrong sometime. How many times have you seen a notice of a meeting that said something like &amp;quot;Tuesday, 1 March 1993&amp;quot; and then missed the meeting because it was on the Monday?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora LeChevalier:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am opposed to structure markings, because these break audio-visual isomorphism. All other optional punctuation marks in the language appear with a specific words that correspond, and hence are &#039;read off&#039; by reading the associated bracket word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If brackets are needed in writing these cases, what correspondingly distinguishes the grouping in speech?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==le lojbo se ciska==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Nick&#039;s Second ckafybarja Text ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to admit that Nick Nicholas&#039;s proposals to use bracketing to make it easier for a reader to figure out a complex text structure might be useful, or even necessary, for Nick&#039;s writings. The following is Nick&#039;s submission for the ckafybarja project, an elaborate and stylistically complex character study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said that I would print all ckafybarja submissions so they can be evaluated by the community. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I could not read the Lojban, even with the bracketing that Nick inserted &#039;to make it easier&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately for Nick, I agree with Nora that Lojban&#039;s audiovisual isomorphism requires that the grammar be understandable based on what is supplied in the words themselves. Lojban&#039;s design presumes that all &#039;punctuation&#039; is spoken. As such, punctuation that is inserted to make a text easier to read must be algorithmically derivable from the text structure itself. The bracketing that Nick included in the following text occasionally violated the grammatical structures of the language. For many of his markings, I saw no obvious explanation that allowing me to predict what bracketing he felt to be useful, and what he felt it was unimportant to include.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to bracketing explicitly, Nick tends to write many cmavo as compounds when there is neither a grammatical link between the words, nor a common English word as translation. He and I clearly have different ideas as to what should constitute a Lojban &#039;word&#039;. In one case he wrote &amp;quot;na&#039;igo&#039;i&amp;quot;, which in a side comment he says is patterned after &amp;quot;nago&#039;i&amp;quot;. But &amp;quot;na&#039;igo&#039;i&amp;quot; is in error if he wishes the &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot; to apply to go&#039;i, so this kind of compounding must not be allowed to creep into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[My own policy, rather utilitarian, is that a compound is a single word if it forms a gestalt image in the mind that is more than the components. To the extent that the gestalt differs from the components, the word needs to be put into a dictionary. If the compound is not made of words linked grammatically, a dictionary cannot define the word as having a single meaning - violating the Lojban design - and you may need to break the compound down into components in order to figure out what the role of the individual words is. A secondary factor is that automated processing of Lojban text, including the spelling checker I use in preparing JL and the Lojban glosser Nora is writing has trouble dealing with irregular compounds. It seems likely that learning Lojbanists will have the same problem - if a word is not found in standard word lists, many Lojbanists do not know what to do with it.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue, I had to check to make sure any lujvo were properly formed, and update them to the new rafsi list. Irregular cmavo compounding made this work more difficult. When I see a compound like &amp;quot;na&#039;igo&#039;i&amp;quot; that counters grammatical sense, I have to rule out the possibility that it might be a mismade lujvo or a typo, omitting the hyphen &#039;r&#039; that would make it valid. Since many rafsi represent gismu that are related in meaning to the cmavo of the same form, it is plausible that an irregular compound will be seem semantically plausible as a erroneous form for a lujvo. I am thus coming to believe that Lojban does not have the redundancy to support significant cmavo compounding. Even fluent speakers of a language make typos when writing, and learning Lojbanists (which all of us are) make even more typos, but also grammatical and lujvo-making errors, that irregular word forms can hide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, I removed all of Nick&#039;s markings, and expanded most of his compounds, prior to inserting my own efforts to structure the text. I then inserted those markers that I could come up with simple algorithmic rules for (I did this manually, so there may be some inconsistencies). New sentences are marked with an equals sign (=), per Nick&#039;s suggestion, and I also left 3 spaces before the mark. I added quotation marks, parentheses (and brackets for parentheses marked as editorial), and question marks for question words and exclamation points for attitudinals. I figured any more marks would make the text simply too punctuated, and indeed in places it seems to have exceeded reason already.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s text unfortunately gave few clues for paragraphing. The unfortunate result was a block of Lojban that was extremely hard to read, even with (or especially with) the forest of punctuation marks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s style of quotation made it impossible to try to follow English-like practices of starting new quotations in a new paragraph. He has quotations in the beginning of sentences, in the middle of sentences, at the end of sentences. In one place he has a series of alternating quotes and names in a single sentence with no clue for the Lojbanist as to how to link the two (we have metalinguistic structures specifically designed to communicate the &#039;he said&#039;/&#039;she said&#039; of conversation, but Nick did not use these.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s parentheses are especially confusing - a parenthetical note attaches grammatically as a free modifier to the previous word, and Nick&#039;s placements often made no sense by this rule. If a parenthetical needs to be broken into a separate thought, as in Nick&#039;s long digression near the end of his story, it must be separated from the previous word by an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; (using Lojban metalinguistic markers to refer to the outside text as needed).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I decided to double indent paragraphs, and to single indent new sentences that were immediately followed by a start of quotation mark or which immediately followed after a quotation ended. This seems something an automatic algorithm can do, and it helps a little in making the text easier on the eyes, if not on the brain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s compounds are expanded unless they are compounds that would be joined by the lexer component of the Lojban parser (and sometimes I expand those, since lexer compounds can be arbitrarily long), or unless they are of patterns that have traditionally been written as compounds in Loglan/Lojban writings like &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lemi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;leca&amp;quot; (which usually means that they have a simple English word or phrase in translation that makes it easy to think of the compound as a unit). I generally separated indicators from the words they follow, whereas Nick generally writes them as compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until someone convinces me differently, I am going to take a hard-nosed attitude towards text structure. I need people to keep their style simple enough that the rules of the language convey what they are supposed to. I hope Nick and everyone else forgives what I did to his text. I hope this effort, if nothing else, leads to some agreements for the future on standards for text submission and for editing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s character sketches are certainly interesting, even if you need to read the English text. Good luck and encouragement to those who try the Lojban!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All footnotes are by Lojbab, except where marked otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kafybarja #2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
®lu go&#039;e =.ibaboke&#039;u ko&#039;u bacru ®lu ko seljde loi mabru li&#039;u¯ li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i lei puze&#039;a tirna cu milxe ke se cfipu cmila =.i la paul. bacru ®lu mabru tcini .!u&#039;iru&#039;e li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;e cevni melbi co dasni lo xekri birtu&#039;ucau .!i&#039;ero&#039;u nercreka =.i ge lerci tcika vi le barja gi carmi melbi co xekri fa le tsani za&#039;a loi selca&#039;o nenri prenu =.i so&#039;o ve barja mo&#039;u cliva =.i la lizbet. na&#039;e go&#039;i cadykei be le xekri tedykre&amp;lt;ref name=cixa /&amp;gt; be la paul. kalsa be&#039;o se mlifanza cisma no&#039;e zanru le xajmi =.ivu.!u&#039;esaibo ti&#039;e xekri kalsa tu&#039;a loi juntytri .!ii poi vlipa joi vlile joi ke daspo joi finti vau .!u&#039;e =.i ki vive&#039;i kamjikca simsa go&#039;i .!i&#039;unai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i la liz. dasni lo grusi notcreka (to le no&#039;a cu se kanla loi danmo blanu za&#039;a toi) be ®lu lenu prami cu ca&#039;e nu nelci carmi se trina lo prenu ju nakni ju fetsi vau !pa&#039;ero&#039;a li&#039;u¯ ne loi lerfu co xekri =.i mi (to lego&#039;i cu se kerfa loi na&#039;e kalsa za&#039;a toi) cairmau me leli&#039;i grusi =.i grusi fa lemi plokarlycreka .e le palku .e le kosycreka noi jgena se dasni ru&#039;u le xadmidju =.i su&#039;o prenu cu ba&#039;anaika&#039;uta&#039;o sanga bacru ®lu =.i RUSpre ce RUSta&#039;u ce rusxirXEMkla li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i na&#039;i go&#039;i sa&#039;e =.i {lu&#039;e ry. ce&#039;o .ubu ce&#039;o sy.}&amp;lt;ref name=cize /&amp;gt; cu ka&#039;u drani se basti {lu&#039;e xy. ce&#039;o. ebu ce&#039;o ky. ce&#039;o ry. ce&#039;o .ybu} =.ita&#039;ocu&#039;i su&#039;u xekri kei vi le kafybarja&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oremo&#039;o su&#039;o bevri cu .!a&#039;acu&#039;i masno kasydzu zo&#039;i loi ve barja =.i la paul. cu tavla (to le no&#039;a mebri cu jurja&#039;o =.i le laurxampre pu&#039;i vlipa .!i&#039;e.i&#039;onai cei bu&#039;a&amp;lt;ref name=cibi /&amp;gt; toi) fi leli&#039;i gletro&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu =.i mi du&#039;eroi .!u&#039;anaizo&#039;o se gletro =.i mi purlamcte&amp;lt;ref name=ciso /&amp;gt; seku&#039;i go&#039;i la liz. .!oinai .!u&#039;i li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.i ?xu purpla&amp;lt;ref name=vono /&amp;gt; go&#039;i zo&#039;o li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.ipe&#039;i .!ianai snuti li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.i la paul. jikfazgau ?.iepei doi liz. .!u&#039;iru&#039;e li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.i carmi jikfazgau ju&#039;o .!iu =.i ko co&#039;u xlapre .!u&#039;i li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.izo&#039;o tu&#039;a ko bapli .!e&#039;inai li&#039;u¯ (to bu&#039;a .!o&#039;e fi leka smaji ke lamji prami joi pendo noi su&#039;anai se mupli na&#039;ebo lecaca&#039;a seltra .!i&#039;o toi) ®lu =.i mi le&#039;o go&#039;i li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la paul. ce la liz. co&#039;a cisma simtipyda&#039;a ni&#039;a le jubme =.i la liz. (to gasta bo demxa&#039;e ce margu bo jamfu ce xamsi bo kanla vau .!io toi) certu lezu&#039;o ca&#039;arcau damba =.i mi se mliburna ctacarna co na&#039;eke ca&#039;arcau damba certu gi&#039;e zgana le barja ni&#039;o le paltylu&#039;i&amp;lt;ref name=vopa /&amp;gt; ku jo&#039;u le jukpa puza cliva =.ija&#039;ebo le barja cu tatpi smaji =.iji&#039;a le trixe be le barja be&#039;o noi di&#039;i krasi leka to&#039;e cando gi&#039;e kurfa kei ki&#039;u lepu&#039;u re ru vi ri zdidabysnu (to ®lu =.i do te sluji le birka lo mleca be la&#039;e mi .!o&#039;a li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.i .!e&#039;u mi&#039;o cipra .!a&#039;e birvrajvi =.i .!ai le pritu =.i do djuno .!o&#039;ocu&#039;i ledu&#039;u le zunle pe mi tsame&#039;a le pritu birka doi paul. li&#039;u¯ ®lu =.i ?xu purpla go&#039;i zo&#039;o li&#039;u¯ toi) tigni fi loi ve barja cu ca malmliselgu&#039;i ke dukri&#039;a kunti =.i la paul. jinga fi la liz. fe lenu birvrajvi =.i la liz. go&#039;i fi mi fu&#039;i (to ba&#039;e dukri&#039;a kunti toi) =.i lerci tcika vi le barja =.i mi&#039;a pu&#039;o jbuboikei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;ocimo&#039;o le jatna ®lu =.i .!a&#039;o do joi le pendo be do cu xaufri ca leca vanci li&#039;u¯ mi ®lu =.i go&#039;i .!io =.i ca pamoi zu&#039;o mi vitke le barja ca lo relmoicte&amp;lt;ref name=vore /&amp;gt; =.iza&#039;a .!u&#039;eru&#039;e lei ve barja cu clira cliva ca le cabdei li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i le re jibni be mi depcni catlu le jatna =.i le jatna ®lu =.i go&#039;i ki&#039;u leka lei cibdei na&#039;o cabdei lenu mutce gunka kei vi levi tcadu =.ita&#039;o do noi ta&#039;e klama le barja ca lei xavycte cu punai pe&#039;i penmi la xiron. noi vi sidju li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la paul. ce la liz. smaji casnu lenu ri jo&#039;u ra ba litru la&#039;e le merko =.i le jatna cu degji jarco le clani ke blabi creka xadyti&#039;e be le cnino be mi gi&#039;e cisma bacru ®lu =.i .!ai mi bazi benji ri do ge&#039;e li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;e cliva =.i la liz. bacru ®lu =.i do li&#039;a selxagmau&amp;lt;ref name=vomi /&amp;gt; mi&#039;a tu&#039;a le bangu .!o&#039;o li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i le re se cimei na lojbo =.i mi ®lu =.i nu vlipa jivna zo&#039;o =.i mi jitro joi seltro li&#039;u¯ la paul. ®lu =.i ca ro nu za&#039;u prenu cu simfra cu nu vlipa jivna ru&#039;a =.i go&#039;i cu&#039;u la djen. vecu&#039;u le samsnuci&#039;e =.iseni&#039;ibozo&#039;o. .!iecu&#039;i go&#039;eje&#039;u li&#039;u¯ mi ®lu =.i ?xu purpla go&#039;i zo&#039;o li&#039;u¯ la paul. ®lu le xaupre za&#039;ota&#039;e bacru ®lu ?xu purpla li&#039;u¯ li&#039;u¯ mi ®lu =.i ?xu purpla go&#039;i zo&#039;o li&#039;u¯ la liz. ®lu =.i co&#039;a lerci =.i doi paul. do pu nupre lenu mi&#039;o clira sipna =.i mi cu&#039;urzu&#039;e co bavlamdei li&#039;u¯ la paul. ®lu =.i .!u&#039;i ?xu purpla go&#039;i li&#039;u¯ mi ®lu =.i .!ua mi se sitna li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[tosa&#039;a lemu&#039;e sitna na dunli lemu&#039;e xusra =.i la paul. cu nalri&#039;i bacru do&#039;i&amp;lt;ref name=vovo /&amp;gt; pe zo ®simfra¯ gi&#039;u xusra =.i loi cmavo be zo ®zo&#039;o¯ na&#039;o banzu lenu lo te sitna lo se xusra cu frica =.i lemu&#039;e mi se sitna cu te ciste lo pemci joi kelci jenai xusra plitadji be la paul. bei le bangu bei lenu jikca pluja =.i na nibli fa le nunsitna lenu morna sinma =.i na nibli na&#039;ebo le sego&#039;i .!u&#039;i =.i mi mutce mezo®to¯ tavla =.i ?xu !se&#039;izo&#039;o purpla go&#039;i toi] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la liz. ®lu malxlu zo&#039;o li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i lerci tcika vi le barja =.i mi&#039;a puba&#039;o jbuboikei =.i lei bevri cu .!a&#039;acu&#039;i masno bo kalsydzu fa&#039;u sutra bo kalsydzu fa&#039;u cando =.i casnu loi sancrfrikative .e loi relcinpampre girvlici&#039;e .e loi nalzva pendo ca&#039;o le nicte noi sruri be lo ba&#039;a vu trene co pelxu gusni nenri pamei ke sirji darno xemkla zmitra ke snura grusi nalkalsa kunti be&#039;o .!uo xekri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of Nick&#039;s Coffeehouse Text&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;That&#039;s right. And then he says, &#039;Beware of the mammals.&#039;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who have been listening smile with mild confusion. Paul says &amp;quot;So, it&#039;s a mammal kind of situation!&amp;quot;, and is godlike-beautiful in his black tank-top (mmm...). It&#039;s late in the cafe, and the night is pitch-beautiful dark to those inside, on the other side of the window. A few cafe patrons have already left. Lizbet, who hasn&#039;t, toys with the chaos of Paul&#039;s hair, smiling slightly annoyed in disapproval of the joke. Far, far away, I hear, there are black chaoses of gravity, that strongly and violently both destroy and create! Right here and now, social-wise, something similar is happening...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, Liz is wearing a grey T-shirt (her eyes are smoky blue, I see), saying &amp;quot;Love is an intense fondness and attraction to a person whether male or female!&amp;quot; in black letters. I (her hair is not a chaos) am more into greyness. Grey are my shirt and my pants and my sweater tied around my waist. It has been sung, I recall, in my culture: &amp;quot;For grey he was, and grey he wore, and grey too was his steed.&amp;quot; Actually, not precisely so. The string &amp;quot;G.R.E.Y.&amp;quot; should be replaced with the string &amp;quot;B.L.A.C.K.&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To sum up (or to expand!), there&#039;s a blackness going on in the cafe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
II&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Waiters, I suppose, are ambling slowly past the patrons. Paul is talking (his brow looks serious. The loud joker has been known to show strength - how I envy!) on topping. &amp;quot;I get topped too often, I&#039;m afraid. But I did top Liz last night! Hehehe!&amp;quot; &amp;quot;On purpose? :) &amp;quot; &amp;quot;Oh, I think it was an accident!&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Paul is being a pest, don&#039;t you think so, Liz?&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Quite a pest! Stop being a bastard, love!&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Oh yeah? Make me!&amp;quot; (... he has been known to show strength in a quiet, close love/friendship - which is not exemplified by this behavior in particular!) &amp;quot;I will!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul and Liz start smilingly kicking each other under the table. Liz (fists of steel, legs of mercury, eyes of the sea...) is an expert in self-defence. I, not being an expert in self-defence, turn around in slight embarrassment and observe the cafe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dish-washer and the cook have left. As a result the cafe is tired-quiet. Also, the back of the cafe, normally the source of bustling and comfort because of the two of them debated there for our -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&amp;quot;Your biceps are smaller than mine! Ha!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Yeah? Let&#039;s test them! Arm-wrestle. The right! You know my left is weaker than my right, Paul!&amp;quot; &amp;quot;On purpose? :) &amp;quot; )&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- amusement, is now ill-lit, and anguishingly empty. Paul beats Liz at arm-wrestling. Liz beats me, surprise surprise. (Anguishingly empty.) It&#039;s late at the cafe. We&#039;re about to play pool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
III&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Manager: &amp;quot;I hope you and your friends are enjoying the evening?&amp;quot; Me: &amp;quot;Indeed, sir. This is the first time I&#039;ve been at the cafe on a Tuesday. I see the patrons are leaving early today!&amp;quot; My two neighbors patiently look at the manager. The Manager: &amp;quot;That&#039;s because Wednesdays get quite busy in this town. By the way, since you usually come into the bar on Saturday nights, you will not have met Xiron&amp;lt;ref name=vomu /&amp;gt;, who has been helping out here.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul and Liz are quietly talking about their trip to the States. The Manager points out to me the long, white-shirted back of someone new to me and smiling says: &amp;quot;I&#039;ll (hm...) send him to you later&amp;quot;, and leaves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Liz says &amp;quot;You... clearly have the advantage of language over us.&amp;quot; Two of the threesome do not speak Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Me: &amp;quot;It&#039;s power conflict! I top and am topped.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul: &amp;quot;At any time more than one persons interact, there is a power conflict. Jen says so on the electronic news, so it must be true!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Me: &amp;quot;On purpose?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul: &amp;quot;Our good man here has been saying &#039;On purpose&#039; a bit too long.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Me: &amp;quot;... On purpose?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Liz: &amp;quot;It&#039;s getting late. Paul, you promised we&#039;d get to bed early. I&#039;m busy tomorrow.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul: &amp;quot;On purpose?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Me: &amp;quot;Aha! I&#039;ve been quoted!&amp;quot; [Editorial digression. Quotation is not equivalent to assertion. Paul informally utters the &amp;quot;Interacts&amp;quot; sentence, independent of whether or not he is asserting it. My being quoted is part of the poetic, or playful, rather than assertional usage of language by Paul to make his social interactions complex. The quotation does not imply emulation. Nor does it imply non-emulation! I use parentheses a lot. On purpose? :) ]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Liz: &amp;quot;You&#039;re a bad influence. smile&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s late at the cafe. We have been playing pool. The waiters, I suppose, are ambling slow and ambling fast and idling. We&#039;re talking fricatives and bisexual politics and absent friends during a night that, surrounding a distant putative train, lonesome yellow lit interior / direct distant vehicle automaton / secure grey unchaos empty, is (THE END) black.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=cixa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick translates this as &amp;quot;chaos&amp;quot;, for which he used the gismu &amp;quot;kalsa&amp;quot; elsewhere in the piece; I get nothing from the metaphor &amp;quot;earth-hair&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=cize&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
These strings could have been done more clearly using the Mex grammar, which allows you to talk about strings of letters and numbers as strings. &amp;quot;me&#039;o ry.ubusy.&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;me&#039;o xy.ebukyry.ybu&amp;quot; would be the corresponding string expressions. Since lerfu used as sumti (as is the case in this text) are presumed to be anaphoric abbreviations, rather than literal text, this version really isn&#039;t correct, though it can be figured out.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=cibi&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This usage is wrong. &amp;quot;bu&#039;a&amp;quot; is one of the existential predicate variables, equivalent to &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; for sumti. Acting like &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; does for sumti, &amp;quot;cei&amp;quot; is the selbri assignment marker used to assign values to the unbound selbri variables of the brodV-series. The latter series corresponds to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; series for sumti, and not for &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; series, and is clearly what Nick intends in this usage, since he anaphorically repeats the bridi of this sentence in the next parenthesis by back reference to &amp;quot;*bu&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;On the other hand, the mechanisms available for defining or restricting bu&#039;a series variables are relatively undefined.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ciso&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The lujvo-scoring algorithm given with the rafsi lists this issue would give a slight preference to &amp;quot;prulamcte&amp;quot; over &amp;quot;purlamcte&amp;quot;. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vono&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The lujvo-scoring algorithm given with the rafsi lists this issue would give a slight preference to &amp;quot;prupla&amp;quot; over &amp;quot;purpla&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vopa&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I would have used the more general &amp;quot;ctitcilu&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;dish-washer&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vore&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This one lost me for a little bit, since the names of the days of the week do not include the rafsi for &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, and Nick did not use &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; elsewhere in the story for &amp;quot;Saturday night&amp;quot;. (Actually, the English translation doesn&#039;t mention it being night, but the previous sentence mentions evening. Since we worked hard to give Lojban culturally neutral definitions for the parts of the day, word choice here could be significant to some.) &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vomi&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The lujvo-scoring algorithm given with the rafsi lists this issue would give a slight preference to &amp;quot;selxaumau&amp;quot; over &amp;quot;selxagmau&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vovo&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This is &amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; on older cmavo lists; see &amp;quot;dai&amp;quot; in the list of new members of UI elsewhere in this issue.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vomu&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban is obviously a reference to the character proposed by Veijo, and described in JL17. Apparently Nick votes in favor of Xiron (though he inexplicably spelled it &#039;Chiron&#039; in his version of this English translation). Nick appears to add the stipulation that Saturday is Xiron&#039;s regular day off.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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==More Usage Questions==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are essays on usage questions that are perhaps less technical, and have not led to significant proposals for change. In most cases, they are further explanations of usage issues discussed in earlier publications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Dean Gahlon asks a simple question===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a very basic question; hopefully, the answer will also be simpler. The canonical form of a Lojban sentence seems to be something like this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le nanmu cu citka le cripu&lt;br /&gt;
 The man eats the bridge. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My question is: are the following two forms equivalent to this (as I think they should be, given my understanding of place structures), or have I missed something?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 citka le nanmu le cripu&lt;br /&gt;
 le cripu se citka le nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, if these are correct, are there any other variants on the sentence that are grammatical? (And yes, I am aware that the event described in these sentences is rather unlikely, but I wanted to keep this simple, and there appears to be no gismu for &amp;quot;bicycle&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In each case: almost, but not quite, equivalent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Starting with &amp;quot;le nanmu cu citka le cripu&amp;quot;. This is identical to &amp;quot;le nanmu le cripu cu citka&amp;quot;, and both have the same x1 and same x2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To put both sumti after &amp;quot;citka&amp;quot;, you must mark the first, because Lojban assumes that if there is no sumti before the selbri &amp;quot;citka&amp;quot; that you have omitted the x1. You must thus mark the x1 place with &amp;quot;fa&amp;quot; which says that the following is the x1 place:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 citka fa le nanmu le cripu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using &amp;quot;fe&amp;quot;, the marker for the x2 place, you can derive even more forms basically mixing &amp;quot;fa le nanmu&amp;quot; &amp;quot;fe le cripu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;citka&amp;quot; in all combinatoric orders, inserting a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; if either of the sumti is before the &amp;quot;citka&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of these are equivalent in a broad sense, the difference being one of emphasis: the thing at the front of the sentence is typical the thing of highest emphasis, and the thing at the end of secondary emphasis. The rules for emphasis are pragmatic mostly, and are based on our experiences rather than a formal prescription.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you insert &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;, the result is a &#039;conversion&#039; and &#039;equivalent&#039; becomes a trickier proposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le cripu cu se citka le nanmu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(note that &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is needed) expresses the same relationship as the above sentences, but there is a minor difference in that the labels &#039;x1&#039; and &#039;x2&#039; are reversed, and you have to use &amp;quot;fa&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;fe&amp;quot; appropriate to the new numbering to rearrange the terms, but all of the options listed above are still possible, with &amp;quot;se citka&amp;quot; as the central selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is some question whether a conversion &#039;means the same thing&#039;, though, because the other things you can do to a converted predicate have different meanings: &amp;quot;le citka&amp;quot; (the eater) is different from &amp;quot;le se citka&amp;quot; (the thing eaten) in a later back reference to the above sentence relationship.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is some question whether &amp;quot;le nu citka&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;le nu se citka&amp;quot; have the same meaning, with or without the x1 and x2 filled in. Again, they abstract the same relationship, and the resulting &#039;event&#039; being described is the same event. But pragmatically, we would often construe different meaning to the use of one over the other.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson gives his answer:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Lojban, the order of sumti with respect to selbri is fairly free. The usual way of doing things is, as here, in &amp;quot;SVO&amp;quot; form (scare quotes because it&#039;s not really applicable in Lojban): x1 place, then selbri, then remaining sumti. The other common form is &amp;quot;SOV&amp;quot; form: &amp;quot;le nanmu le cripu cu citka&amp;quot;. This is also fine. Presumably, with many sumti, there&#039;s nothing wrong with putting the selbri anywhere among them (but see below). So, &amp;quot;mi le briju cu klama le zdani&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I to the-office go from the-nest&amp;quot;) is OK, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using &amp;quot;VSO&amp;quot; form, &amp;quot;citka le nanmu le cripu&amp;quot;, is quite grammatical, but poses a different problem. By current usage, since VSO is not a common word-order in many languages, the &amp;quot;selbri-first&amp;quot; word-order is reserved for &amp;quot;observative&amp;quot; sentences - ones with the x1 place ellipsized. Thus, the above sentence would probably be understood to mean &amp;quot;(something) eats the man ??? the bridge&amp;quot; - since &amp;quot;citka&amp;quot; only has 2 places, it would be unclear how the bridge related to it all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As to using &amp;quot;le cripu cu se citka le nanmu&amp;quot; (the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is necessary here, otherwise we get &amp;quot;the bridgish eaten-thing&amp;quot;); that&#039;s another bit of hairy semantics. I like to consider it quite the same as &amp;quot;le nanmu cu citka le cripu&amp;quot;, but even I, like most others, often consider a SE-converted selbri somehow to have a different semantic loading than an unconverted one. So, when I hear &amp;quot;se citka&amp;quot; I think &amp;quot;is-eaten&amp;quot;, and thus would get a different meaning for &amp;quot;le cripu cu se citka [zo&#039;e]&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;[zo&#039;e] citka le cripu&amp;quot;, even though both have the same brivla (citka), and the same sumti (&amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; [elliptical &amp;quot;it&amp;quot;] in the eater position (so to speak), and &amp;quot;le cripu&amp;quot; in the eaten position).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Course, you may not have gotten up to this yet, but there are other ways to mangle the word-order in a Lojban predication. There&#039;s selma&#039;o FA, which allows totally free reorganization (basically, the chief words in FA are &amp;quot;fa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;fe&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;fi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;fo&amp;quot;, &amp;amp; &amp;quot;fu&amp;quot;, which mark the next following sumti as belonging in the x1, x2, x3, x4, &amp;amp; x5 places of the current bridi, respectively. Following a FA-marked sumti, subsequent unmarked sumti are considered to continue sequentially from the point specified by the FA.) Needless to say, this allows you to construct truly confusing sentences, put more than one sumti into the same place with no conjunction, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===SVO Order in Lojban===&lt;br /&gt;
JCB&#039;s Rationale, with commentary by John Cowan, Colin Fine, Lojbab&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During a computer network discussion of word order in constructed languages, the rationale for the predominant SVO (subject-verb-object) order used in Loglan/Lojban came to be discussed. This article summarizes that discussion. For those unfamiliar with the grammatical word-order terminology, with regard to Loglan/Lojban it is generally presumed that the selbri is the &amp;quot;verb&amp;quot;, the first sumti is the &amp;quot;subject&amp;quot;, and all other sumti are the &amp;quot;object&amp;quot;. The reasons for this will come out in the article. Note that Colin&#039;s &#039;proposal&#039; is one that is proposed quite often, and the commentary may thus help people better understand the rationale for the current design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any such discussion must start with the original rationale for Loglan, which was that of James Cooke Brown (JCB). The following text was originally written by JCB in 1967-68, published as part of Chapter 6 of his book Loglan 2: Methods of Construction, and reprinted in The Loglanist 1:2, p. 54ff. These publications are long out of print and hard to find.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan(JC):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It provides an interesting insight into the mind of a language designer at work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: [JCB begins by defending SVO as the order of choice because of its prevalence in Chinese, English, Russian, Spanish, French, and German, 6 of his 8 source languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;There was a time, however, when [VSO] order was seriously, if briefly, considered for Loglan. This order has a certain traditional charm for logicians - witness the standard schematic notation &#039;Fxy&#039; for a two-place predicate, for example - and for certain purposes of manipulation it has undeniable advantages. But for a spoken and, at the same time, uninflected language the VSO order turns out to be quite unsuitable. The argument which discloses that result may bear repeating here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: We note first that, on the most fundamental grounds, arguments are not to be distinguished except by word order in Loglan. Thus we entertain no &amp;quot;case endings&amp;quot;, or other marking devices, by which &amp;quot;Subjects&amp;quot; can be intrinsically distinguished from &amp;quot;Objects&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=pax /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One form of the argument then hinges on the management of imperatives.&amp;lt;ref name=rex /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan: Both Loglan and Lojban have to some extent withdrawn from the original rejection of case marking, and have created a set of optional case tags. However, neither form of the language uses them much. In Lojban, the argument about &amp;quot;imperatives&amp;quot; which follows must be replaced by an exactly parallel argument about &amp;quot;observatives&amp;quot;, since Lojban interprets a V-first sentence as an elliptical subject without imperative coloring. I have added bracketed comments to the next paragraph giving the Lojban, as distinct from the Loglan, viewpoint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB (cont.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Now imperatives [Lojban: observatives] are almost invariably short forms; there is apparently little scope for long-windedness in giving warnings or commands [Lojban: drawing the hearer&#039;s attention to things in the environment].  Moreover, the first argument of an imperatively [Lojban: observatively] used predicate is almost always the hearer [Lojban: understood from context], and as the omission of any constant feature of a message cannot reduce its information content, first arguments are nearly always [Lojban: always] omitted in the imperative [Lojban: observative] mode (e.g. as in English &#039;Go!&#039; - [Lojban: &#039;Delicious!&#039;]). But if we omit the first argument from the form PAA (Predicate-Argument-Argument) - for arguments, note, are to be taken as indistinguishable - we obtain a result that does not differ from the result of omitting a second argument, or a third. Therefore the adoption of the PAA schema as the standard order for the Loglan sentence deprives us of a good way of defining imperatives [Lojban: observatives]. In fact, it deprives us of the only way of defining imperatives that is consistent with the other patterns of an uninflected language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan: Lojban resolved this by making use of a special &amp;quot;imperative 2nd person pronoun&amp;quot; which may appear as any argument, thus permitting more complex imperative forms while remaining &amp;quot;uninflected&amp;quot;. This enabled us to use a missing argument to indicate an observative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB (cont.):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similar difficulties arise with specified descriptions.  Thus if &#039;He gave the horse to John&#039; is to become something like &#039;Gave he the horse John&#039;, how do you say &#039;the giver of the horse to John&#039;? A form like &#039;the give the horse John&#039; will not do, since it is the designation of the giver, not the gift, which normally follows the predicate. Only by introducing some sort of dummy argument into the &#039;Fxyz&#039; form, e.g. &#039;F-yz&#039;, can we keep the meaning clear. But this is awkward. These seemed good reasons not to use the VSO form, especially as the SVO form does not suffer this disaster. Thus, the schema APA yields an unmistakable PA in the imperative [Lojban: observative] mood.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, the SOV order (&#039;He the horse John gave&#039;) collapses into the same kind of ambiguity under the pressure of abbreviation. (Is &#039;The horse John give&#039; an imperative, or an incomplete declaration?) Thus, curiously enough, and independent of any facts about the distribution of these arrangements among languages, we would have been forced to abandon the logicians&#039; notational convention anyway. For once incomplete or abbreviated forms are considered - and in a spoken language they are far more frequent than unabbreviated forms - the predicate can no longer be treated as a prefix or a suffix of its uninflected arguments (&#039;Fxy&#039; or &#039;xyF&#039;) but must be treated as an infix (&#039;xFy&#039;). It is only of such initially infixed arrangements that the fragments left by the removal of uninflected arguments (e.g. &#039;xF&#039; and &#039;Fy&#039;) remain reconstructible and, hence, grammatically clear.&amp;lt;ref name=mix /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine then commented on JCB&#039;s rationale:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is remarkable how weak these arguments are, from the perspective of 25 years later.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider the following.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: - 1. The major justification was in terms of imperatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This was a strong argument as long as &amp;quot;the only way of defining imperatives that is consistent with the other patterns of an uninflected language&amp;quot; was to omit the leading argument. But as John points out, we have an elegant and flexible alternative method.  (JCB&#039;s original argument about imperatives stressed the importance of minimal morphological material in them, and gave examples from natural languages; but in fact there are plenty of contrary examples with more morphology in them, such as polite imperatives in German &amp;quot;gehen sie!&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: - 2. Given that the omitted first place now signals an observative rather than an imperative, the argument becomes feeble. Even if observatives had continued to be used as apparently intended, statements such as &amp;quot;there is apparently little scope for long-windedness in ... drawing the hearer&#039;s attention to things in the environment&amp;quot; are highly dubious.  It is true that there are short observatives (&amp;quot;Delicious!&amp;quot;) but equally there are long and tortuous ones (&amp;quot;A man on a unicycle eating cream cakes!&amp;quot;).  Furthermore, I observe that &#039;observatives&#039; are not in practice limited to this use in current Lojban writing and speaking, but that lojbo feel free to omit the x1 in just the same way as they do any other argument. Indeed, constructions like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&amp;quot;cumki falenu ...&amp;quot; (it is possible that ...)&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: where the x1 is postposed by an explicit x1 marker (&#039;fa&#039;), are syntactically equivalent to observatives, and not unusual with words like &#039;cumki&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would analyze the current situation in Lojban thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# A bridi consists of a string consisting of zero or more terms (optionally tagged sumti) and one selbri. The selbri may occur first, last, or between any two terms.&lt;br /&gt;
# The case where the selbri comes first has some special properties of interpretation (below), and is therefore treated as a special construction, called, for historical reasons, &#039;observative&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# An untagged sumti S is interpreted as follows (ignore all terms tagged with BAI, tense or FIhO in this): &lt;br /&gt;
## if the preceding sumti is tagged with an explicit positional marker (FA) indicating the Xn place of the selbri, or is interpreted by recursive application of these rules as filling the Xn place, S fills the X(n+1) place. b) if no sumti precedes, S fills the x1 place except in the case of an observative when it fills the x2 place.&lt;br /&gt;
# (a stylistic or discourse observation) a syntactic observative (with x1 unstated) is often appropriate for uses that might be referred to stylistically as observatives, such as &amp;quot;kukte&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Delicious!&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But it is equally useful where the x1 is omitted because pragmatically reconstructible (for example in narrative: &amp;quot;la maik. mu&#039;o klama .i rinsa mi&#039;a&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Mike arrived. [He] greeted us.&amp;quot;) ) or for structural reasons to do with clause weight (&amp;quot;cumki falenu loi xarju cu vofli da&#039;i&amp;quot; = [it is] possible that pigs might fly).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: There are stylistic and pragmatic uses for the &amp;quot;observative&amp;quot; word-order/x1- omission other than spontaneous, brief observation (&amp;quot;Delicious!&amp;quot;). But the latter was the justification for providing the short form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, while observatives currently exist as a distinct grammatical structure in Lojban, they are distinguished only by a special rule of default interpretation. The argument originally advanced in respect of imperatives really does not seem to have any weight once transposed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second argument advanced was in respect of selgadri (specified descriptions) [ed. note: sumti of the form &amp;quot;le {selbri} be {x2 sumti} bei {x3 sumti ...} be&#039;o&amp;quot;]. Remarkably, this argument is actually stronger in respect of Lojban than it was for Loglan (at least when I knew it, in the late 70&#039;s) because Loglan then had a series of words that meant &amp;quot;befe, befi, befo, befu&amp;quot; i.e. the links indicated the place of the following argument. (There was no &#039;bei&#039; equivalent). Given this, his argument that &amp;quot;the give the horse John&amp;quot; could not be interpreted as &amp;quot;The giver of the horse to John&amp;quot; because there was an omitted argument, is simply false.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojbab: Actually, Lojban &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; is the exact equivalent of the first of these, and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; the second of these, provided that there is no use of the fa/fe/fi-series of tags. Loglan eliminated the higher-numbered places in the early 1980s, combining them into &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, as part of the development of the unambiguous machine grammar, as part of the recognition that sumti numbering need not be a function of the syntax (i.e., that the grammar should not be counting the number of sumti in a bridi - in other words, that you did not need separate grammar structures for 2-place bridi, 3 place bridi, etc.). This was still in the 70s, I think, but it might ave been 80- 81. Older versions of Loglan rarely made use of omitted sumti (at least partially because so little text of any complexity or naturalness was written), so it was never analyzed in the 70s version, how, for example, you would skip the x2 sumti in a specified description. You could not merely leave out the &amp;quot;befe&amp;quot; equivalent term and jump to the &amp;quot;befi&amp;quot; term. So older Loglan is really the same as Lojban with regard to the argument that follows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin (cont.):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In current Lojban, the argument does have some weight, since &amp;quot;be&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; are merely syntactic glue, and do not specify the role of the following term. However, it is not convincing, for the following reason:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: At present, as sketched above, there is a rule of interpretation which says that if the first unmarked sumti in a bridi follows the selbri, it is to be taken as the x2, not the x1. There is no a priori reason not to apply the same rule to linked sumti - except that it would be simpler, because there are only following sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In short, a VSO version of Lojban could be created by making two changes to interpretation, and no changes to syntax, viz.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# In a bridi, the first untagged sumti is always the x1, whether it precedes or follows the selbri;&lt;br /&gt;
# In a selbri with linked sumti, the first untagged sumti is the x2, and the meaning of the selbri as a taurpau or selgadypau (tanru or description component) is the x1. To specify the x1 (meaningless in a selgadri), FA must be used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first removes a complexity from the current rule, the second inserts it back in elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The effects on usage would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Current                   VSO&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Normal bridi with leading sumti would not be affected:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi viska ta or mi viska   ta viska mi ta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. True observatives with no positional sumti would not be affected:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kukte carvi vi lei bartu  kukte carvi vi lei bartu&lt;br /&gt;
or                        or&lt;br /&gt;
vi lei bartu ku carvi     vi lei bartu ku carvi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. True observatives with following arguments would require a FA:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
batke le gerku            batke fe le gerku&lt;br /&gt;
or                        or&lt;br /&gt;
ta batke le gerku         batke ta le gerku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. bridi with omitted x1 would require a FA:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i suksa bacru di&#039;e       .i suksa bacru fe di&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
or                        or&lt;br /&gt;
.i suksa bacru ri di&#039;e    .i ri suksa bacru di&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. selgadri with linked sumti would not be affected:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le batke be le gerku      le batke be le gerku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of the two patterns which would require change, I believe 3. is very rare. 4. is undoubtedly common in current writing; but it is also very common to omit the x2, even when there is an x3 - we are used to using FA a great deal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am not actually advocating this change. But I think it would be perfectly workable, as well as slightly more elegant. But the arguments against it are very weak indeed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan on this proposal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;left-padding: 2em&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Not really enough. Consider the very common form:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le prenu poi klama le zarci cu blanu &lt;br /&gt;
 the man who goes to-the store is-blue&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under a VSO interpretation, &amp;quot;le zarci&amp;quot; would be the x1 place of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;, not the x2 place. By the way, this goes literally into 4th-edition Loglan as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le pernu jao godzi le marte ga blanu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and so we see that JCB isn&#039;t even consistent: within a relative clause, omitting x1 has no imperative sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin (cont.):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some further observations on current Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. I assume that a bridi which has tagged terms (but not FA) preceding the selbri, and untagged ones after, is still technically an observative, and interpreted according to the observative rule, i.e.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ne&#039;i le purdi ga&#039;a mi mu&#039;i leza&#039;i birti kei cu preti ta mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
means&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 In the garden, watched by me, in order to be certain, (something was) a question about that to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rather than&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ... that was a question about me. Thus my account above is not complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Thus the observative rule applies when there are no untagged or FA-tagged sumti preceding the selbri. This is a different rule from that for &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is permitted if and only if there is at least one preceding term, of any kind. I have more than once tripped over this rule - I don&#039;t see why you should not be permitted to use &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; with an initial selbri if you wish - but as it stands there is a rule, and these two rules which you might have expected to coincide in their application do not. (On the other hand, one is purely syntactic, and the other interpretive, so there is no a priori reason why they should agree).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: The reason is that CU is grammatically a separator - it comes between leading terms and the selbri. If there are no leading terms, there is nothing to &#039;separate&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There really is no relation between the two rules. The interpretation of how sumti are to be counted in complex sentences is a semantics convention - one which probably could have gone either way. It is not covered by the formal grammar, whereas the locations where CU is permitted is specified by the grammar. We chose to make the language totally transparent to tagged sumti in counting regardless of where, or what, they are, as an aid to teaching. (Note that a sumti marked with a case tag is automatically not a numbered sumti, even if the case is merely marking a semantic role normal carried by a sumti in the bridi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 bau la lojban. mi [cu] tavla&lt;br /&gt;
 In language Lojban, I talk. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
untagged &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; is still x1, even though the language (which is x4 of &amp;quot;tavla&amp;quot; when unmarked) is specified first, because the case tag is present. By comparison, if the x4 sumti is tagged with the x4 marker &amp;quot;fo&amp;quot;, you need to use &amp;quot;fa&amp;quot; (marking x1 on &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;, or the latter would be understood as (the undefined-for-&amp;quot;tavla&amp;quot;) x5:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 fo la lojban. fa mi [cu] tavla&lt;br /&gt;
 In language Lojban, I talk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pax&amp;gt;I leave the argument behind this remark, however, to the reader.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=rex&amp;gt;It could as well be based on specified descriptions; see below.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mix&amp;gt;In these analyses, by the way, we may have isolated the ambiguity-avoidance mechanism behind one of Greenberg&#039;s most interesting universals, namely that all SOV languages have case systems (his Universal 41). I am surprised that the principle does not hold for VSO languages as well. If it did, we should then have strong evidence for the even more interesting converse principle that only SVO languages can be analytic: a fact we suspect anyway, but we would then know why.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===And Rosta on &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;te&amp;quot;, &amp;amp; lujvo===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 jerna x1 earns x2 for work x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le se jerna&amp;quot; can mean anything that is earned. Suppose one wanted a lujvo specifically meaning &amp;quot;wages&amp;quot;: could &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; be such a lujvo? (i.e. does it have to be synonymous with &amp;quot;se jerna&amp;quot;?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; needn&#039;t be synonymous with &amp;quot;se jerna&amp;quot;, then, I wonder, is there a way of forming a lujvo that yields the x1 place of the source gismu, but isn&#039;t synonymous with the source gismu? Put another way: if &amp;quot;le se jerna&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t equal &amp;quot;le seljerna&amp;quot; then &amp;quot;le jerna&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t equal ________? (what corresponding lujvo)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;le se jerna&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;le seljerna&amp;quot;, then why is Colin always using seljerna-type lujvo?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab replies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le se jerna&amp;quot; need not be identical semantically to &amp;quot;le seljerna&amp;quot;, but it will probably be close and nearly always interchangeable, probably an idealized value. A good example is Mark Shoulson&#039;s &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot; (beverage) vs. &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot; (something drunk). For &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot;, I would presume that if one wanted to be specific that it was money that was earned, you could add &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; (money) or &amp;quot;pegji&amp;quot; (pay) to the compound, but given the stylistic bent people have these days for omitting such info where it is obvious from context, I can see why people would not. Therefore it is safe to say that at this point it is not yet clear whether &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; is limited only to monetary wages, but that Colin probably does not want the value to be as broadly construed as &amp;quot;se jerna&amp;quot; might allow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this case, I tend to rely on my English instincts: if what I am translating is a single word in English, I am more likely to use a &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; lujvo, whereas if it takes a phrase to say it in English, and the Lojban isn&#039;t exactly a paragon of trailblazing eloquence, I am more likely to leave the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; separate. The fact that not all concepts that might be thought of as &amp;quot;se jerna&amp;quot; will also be &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; is a natural consequence of the fact that a new word has been created. &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; of course exists because there are times when you want to make a lujvo in which it is important to make it clear what aspect of a selbri modifying another. For train travel,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;selkla stana&amp;quot; (destination station) is clearly different from &amp;quot;terkla stana&amp;quot; (origin station). For such longer metaphors, you don&#039;t want to be stuck with the length of a tanru expression for everyday usage, and you don&#039;t want to be stuck with the place structure of the final lujvo term. So you need to be able to make &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;-based lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any restriction from &amp;quot;se jerna&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; is vague. And&#039;s question seems to be whether we have a similar short lujvo form that makes a vague restriction on the gismu itself. The answer is that we do not, since no one has suggested why such would be useful. Most often, when you make a lujvo, you have a specific concept in mind, and are going to choose a word that conveys that concept clearly, but briefly. &amp;quot;seljerna&amp;quot; does convey some information, that it is making a relationship involving something that is also the x2 of a similar relationship involving &amp;quot;jerna&amp;quot;. If you want to make a word that in some way restricts the concept of &amp;quot;jerna&amp;quot;, you will naturally make a lujvo that suggests something about what kind of restriction you have in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only other reason for And&#039;s suggestion, which came up in ensuing discussion of this topic, seems to have been that a symmetry is lacking without such a form. We really don&#039;t want to use up cmavo and rafsi space for the sake of idealized symmetries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===On the Grammar and Range of Free Modifiers===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&#039;Free modifiers&#039; (the rule labelled &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; in the E-BNF) are the grammar structure which includes discursives, vocatives, subscripts, metalinguistic comments. Put briefly, free modifiers work like attitudinals, and modify the previous word of the sentence, or modify the whole sentence if found at the beginning of the sentence. Free modifiers would be as entirely free as attitudinals as to where they lie in a sentence, except that they have internal grammar (sometimes quite complex), and that grammar can interact in complicated ways with the grammar in the surrounding sentence. Thus, in the Lojban design, we had to limit the places where free modifiers could occur to specifically enumerated places (The list gets occasionally extended because someone thinks of a new place they want to use a free modifier, and John Cowan is able to successfully get YACC to accept free modifiers in that situation. This type of change has been a substantial fraction of the grammar changes approved in the last few years.) At one point, free modifiers were much simpler and more restrictive, and included the set of attitudinals, which now can be located anywhere in a sentence. Jim Carter proposed making free modifiers the grammatical equivalent of sumti. We chose the attitudinal model instead, and this essay discusses that decision.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Free modifiers (and attitudinals) were never considered the equivalent of sumti for Lojban because they inherently modify the previous structure (except at the beginning of the sentence). They are thus more like the attitudinals, which we keep distinct and grammar free - more on this in a moment. Free modifiers include subscripts, and there are innumerable reasons in Lojban to use subscripts metalinguistically in ways that a sumti attachment would simply not support. The grammatical free modifiers are those with sufficiently complex grammar to require parsing, and hence cannot be totally free, but we remove as many constraints as possible (Loglan IS about removing unneeded constraints).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the whole, though, Jim will find these grammatical free modifiers to be not all that unlike sumti in their grammatical location - but they group differently in the sentence than sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attitudinals are intended to be grammar free expressions because for the most part they are intended to be at the subliminal level. Like the hesitation noise, .y. and the English &amp;quot;you know&amp;quot; (Lojban pei?), these are to be stuck in where they fit, where you feel the intuitive need to express them. Unlike Carter, we do not feel these are abbreviations for claims; they are expressions. They are the equivalent of tone of voice, which in English and most other languages is controlled down to the word level or even more refined. (The Joy of Yiddish starts off with a sentence with contrastive stress applied in something like a dozen different places in the sentence to get different semantic interpretations of the sentence. Each Lojban attitudinal has that power.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try an experiment. Take any short Lojban sentence that you can understand the grammar of. Take say 3 or 4 different attitudinals expressing a variety of emotions. For each attitudinal, and for each word position, insert the attitudinal and try to figure out what it means.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here try:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 mi dunda ti do&lt;br /&gt;
 I give this to-you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
with attitudinals chosen from .iu (love) .oi (complaint) .ui (happiness) .uu (pity) .u&#039;u (regret) .ue (surprise) .auro&#039;u (sexual desire)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For each attitudinal, there are five positions. Try interpreting the effects in the sentence of one or two of these attitudinals. A brave soul can try two attitudinals in different places in the sentence, which is also permitted. e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui mi dunda ti do&lt;br /&gt;
Happily, I give this to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi .ui dunda ti do&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m so happy it was ME who gave this to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda .ui ti do&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m GIVING this to you, and happily (Did you think I could charge you for it?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda ti .ui do&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m giving THIS (my dream gift for you) to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda ti do .ui&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m giving this to YOU (who makes me so happy)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(This exercise is a good way to practice and learn attitudinal words, if you limit yourself to a small number at a time.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now of course in this sentence, all positions in the sentence would allow you to grammatically add a tagged sumti. A tagged sumti in an odd position can add emphasis to other adjacent words too, and by convention often seems to emphasize the previous word like an attitudinal does. But this added emphasis is quite minor, and open to a wider variation of interpretation than the corresponding English, since other reasons besides emphasis can justify where a tagged sumti is inserted:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ca le cabdei mi dunda ti do&lt;br /&gt;
Today, I give this to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi ca le cabdei cu dunda ti do&lt;br /&gt;
I, today, give this to you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Another day, someone else?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda ca le cabdei ti do&lt;br /&gt;
I GIVE today this to you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Another day I might take it?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda ti ca le cabdei do&lt;br /&gt;
I give THIS today to you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Another day something else?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dunda ti do ca le cabdei&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m giving this to YOU today&lt;br /&gt;
(Another day someone else?)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s trivial to change the sentence to one where this isn&#039;t so:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi dunda le xunre cukta do&lt;br /&gt;
 I give the red book to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where a free modifier/sumti inserted after xunre would violate Carter&#039;s proposed constraint. (But I want to say how much I love books that are red when I tell you about my gift. Who are you to tell me I&#039;m not allowed to do so?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Comments on the Tense System===&lt;br /&gt;
by Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Below are a few short comments on the tense system. But I would first like to congratulate John Cowan and any others who worked on it. It is brilliantly designed, flexible, and fascinating! It took me no time at all to understand it, with one exception which I have noted below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One thing that I think should be pointed out more clearly is that the new usage of selma&#039;o VA is going to alter the way it is used as sumti tcita. (I am not assuming you don&#039;t already realize this: I just think it should be made more clear to those who might not.) Remember that it is no longer the spatial analog of selma&#039;o PU. FAhA is the proper spatial analog of PU, while ZI is the analog of VA. As you well know, &amp;quot;zu&#039;avi&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;a short distance left&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;a short distance [from the origin, in the direction specified, if any]&amp;quot;. Therefore, &amp;quot;vi le tcadu&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t mean &amp;quot;in the city&amp;quot; but &amp;quot;a short distance from the city&amp;quot;. The spatial relation analogous to &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;bu&#039;u&amp;quot;, which, along with &amp;quot;ne&#039;i&amp;quot; is probably best for &amp;quot;in/at&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;bu&#039;u le tcadu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;in the city&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;bu&#039;uvi le tcadu/vi le tcadu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;a short distance from the city&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;bu&#039;uva le tcadu/va le tcadu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;a medium distance from the city&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 just as &amp;quot;ca le djedi&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;in the day&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- in all of these examples we could have used &amp;quot;ne&#039;i&amp;quot; as well as &amp;quot;bu&#039;u&amp;quot;, although they aren&#039;t always interchangeable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One thing that you may consider changing is &amp;quot;te&#039;e&amp;quot; &amp;quot;bordering&amp;quot;. I suggest putting this in selma&#039;o VA, where it might prove more useful. (Although I could be misinterpreting its meaning.) Can &amp;quot;te&#039;e&amp;quot; be used to mean &amp;quot;touching/in contact with&amp;quot;? There is currently no cmavo assigned to indicate when two things are actually in contact except for this one. The problem with it is that it only indicates that they are bordering, and not where they are bordering. As a member of VA, we could then have such constructs as &amp;quot;ni&#039;ate&#039;e&amp;quot; &amp;quot;bordering below, i.e. on (/in contact with) the bottom of&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;ga&#039;ute&#039;e&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;on top of&amp;quot;. (Leaving it &amp;quot;as is&amp;quot; really doesn&#039;t help. &amp;quot;ni&#039;ate&#039;e&amp;quot;, in the current definition means &amp;quot;[origin] [down] [bordering]&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;bordering a place below ...&amp;quot;, which could mean &amp;quot;on the bottom of&amp;quot;, but probably doesn&#039;t in most cases.) This, to my mind, would complete VA very nicely. We would have: &amp;quot;te&#039;e&amp;quot; &amp;quot;in contact with/touching&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; &amp;quot;a short distance from&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;va&amp;quot; &amp;quot;a medium distance from&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;vu&amp;quot; &amp;quot;a long distance from&amp;quot;. Perhaps a new, shorter cmavo could be chosen for this function, if any are left.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;m having a little difficulty using logical connectives with tense constructs, especially long ones. To solve my problem: Which binds more tightly, the connectives or the modifiers of the words connected, e.g. in &amp;quot;pujeba zi do&amp;quot; we have &amp;quot;®pu je ba¯ zi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;pu je ®ba zi¯&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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How the hell do you use &amp;quot;zo&#039;i&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ze&#039;o&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;fa&#039;a&amp;quot;, by the way? They all appear to represent orientation. Am I right in assuming that &amp;quot;zo&#039;izu&#039;a&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;to the left of a place oriented towards me&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;zu&#039;azo&#039;i&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;on my left, oriented towards me&amp;quot;? Just wanted to be sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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Is it possible to bind a temporal and spatial tense more tightly together so that we can indicate position at a certain time? In the sentence&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la ivan. pu ti&#039;a zutse le stizu&lt;br /&gt;
 Ivan sat behind me in the chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
does &amp;quot;ti&#039;a&amp;quot; refer to where you were at the time, or to where you are now, or even where you will be? Is &amp;quot;ti&#039;a&amp;quot; tied to &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;? Maybe a word order convention could be useful here. A temporal construct appended to the end of a spatial construct would link them in time, and a temporal construct placed before a space construct would be independent. Thus &amp;quot;ba ti&#039;a pu zutse&amp;quot; would mean &amp;quot;will sit behind where I sat&amp;quot;. We can still have our vagueness if we like: &amp;quot;pu ti&#039;a&amp;quot; with no following time marker makes &amp;quot;ti&#039;a&amp;quot; vague as to time. &amp;quot;pu ti&#039;a ca&amp;quot; would mean, of course, &amp;quot;behind me then&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there another way to do this that I&#039;ve overlooked? Logical connectives won&#039;t do it, perhaps &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; will. I think my suggestion is more flexible. In the case of a logical connective, there is exactly that: logical connection, which is usually independent of time. &amp;quot;pujeti&#039;a&amp;quot; says nothing about the &amp;quot;time&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;ti&#039;a&amp;quot;, it just says &amp;quot;both before in time and behind in space&amp;quot; - not necessarily simultaneously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbab tackles some of these questions:]&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; still works as well as it has in the past. It is true that &amp;quot;bu&#039;u&amp;quot; is the counterpart of &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, but most often when we say &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; in reference to space locations, we do not strictly mean coincident in location. &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; means a short, possibly very short distance (i.e, approximating 0), and can therefore be translated as &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; as easily as &amp;quot;near&amp;quot;. It doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that you are adjacent, but context will usually include this as a plausible interpretation. In fact, &amp;quot;va&amp;quot; is probably a better word for &amp;quot;near, but not at&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ze&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ve&#039;i&amp;quot; also work to indicate very small distances and/or areas/intervals. &amp;quot;bazi&amp;quot; can therefore mean &amp;quot;immediately&amp;quot;, when referring to an impending action.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you are dealing with something of significant size, like a city, there is always the question of where you measure from. If from the city center, then places technically &amp;quot;in&amp;quot; the city are merely &amp;quot;near&amp;quot;. Tense information is, of course, vague, and if you want greater accuracy, you need a separate predicate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is true that some of the members of FAhA may be more exact about location than &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;va&amp;quot;, and some of your alternatives would work quite well in place of &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot;. There are several members of FAhA that are more specific analogs of &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot;, including &amp;quot;ne&#039;i&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;pa&#039;o&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ne&#039;a&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;te&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;re&#039;o&amp;quot; (which includes touching), as well as &amp;quot;bu&#039;u&amp;quot;. But &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; works fine, if a bit more vaguely.&lt;br /&gt;
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Logical connectives have the largest scope within tense constructs, so that &amp;quot;pujebazi&amp;quot; will group as &amp;quot;pu je bazi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ze&#039;o&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;fa&#039;a&amp;quot; and the like are pure directions, and generally intended to be associated with motions as well. As a sumti tcita, of course, &amp;quot;fa&#039;a&amp;quot; can indicate a direction without motion: &amp;quot;fa&#039;a le zdani&amp;quot; (over towards the house), &amp;quot;mo&#039;ifa&#039;a le zdani&amp;quot; (while moving towards the house).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I just said above, the tense system is not intended to express extremely complex ideas. If it is critical to you to distinguish between where I am now and where I was in the past, in deciding whether something is &amp;quot;behind&amp;quot;, then you need at least two term phrases, and shouldn&#039;t be trying to load all of it onto the selbri tense. Try something like&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la .ivan. pu zutse ti&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
 Ivan sat behind me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 where the fact that &amp;quot;ti&#039;a&amp;quot; appears after the &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; means that you are already set into the past. For sitting behind where I am now, I would want to be more explicit about the tense contrast:&lt;br /&gt;
 la ivan. ti&#039;a mipeca pu zutse Ivan, behind the present me, sat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===ko&#039;a stizu===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[A comment on a usage issue, from Lojbab:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan had labelled the use of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; in such a sentence as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
as being &#039;incorrect&#039; where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; has not been assigned. This is misleading, since we teach such usage in introductory lessons before relative phrases with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; have been taught.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; has not been defined, then using &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; risks confusion. The appropriate answer then is &amp;quot;ko&#039;a ki&#039;a stizu&amp;quot;, which for novices has to be answered with &amp;quot;ko&#039;a du ti&amp;quot;. We would prefer people to use the vague usage &amp;quot;ko&#039;a stizu&amp;quot; than to overuse &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;ko&#039;a du le stizu&amp;quot; which new Lojbanists will (and do) quickly acquire the malglico and very incorrect non-Lojbanic &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; = English &amp;quot;is&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I favor people using undefined &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; at the start. It is a relatively unserious error that is easily correctable and usually communicative. As opposed to the alternative, which if theoretically more correct is risky of bad pedagogy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmmm. Perhaps &amp;quot;zo ko&#039;a sinxa le stizu&amp;quot; is within a lesson 1 or lesson 2 student&#039;s grasp, in which case it should replace the sloppy form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But &amp;quot;ko&#039;a stizu&amp;quot; is always grammatical, and there&#039;s the possibility that the speaker defined it before the listener came in, in which case &amp;quot;ko&#039;a ?ki&#039;a stizu&amp;quot; is still the appropriate response.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Questions On Logical Connection===&lt;br /&gt;
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Colin Fine:&lt;br /&gt;
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A simple question of semantics:&lt;br /&gt;
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In a logical connection with an unspecified sumti, are the branches of the connection to be construed with the same value for the sumti or are they independently unspecified? i.e. If&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama la lidz. .e la bratfrd.&lt;br /&gt;
 I go to Leeds and Bradford.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is true, it follows that&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama la lidz. zo&#039;e .ije mi klama la bratfrd. zo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
 I go to Leeds from somewhere. And I go to Bradford from somewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but does the stronger claim follow that&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;oda zo&#039;u mi klama la lidz. da .ije mi klama la bratfrd. da?&lt;br /&gt;
 For some (place) x, I go to Leeds from x. And I go to Bradford from (the same) x.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[John Cowan replied:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hitherto this point has been discussed but not settled. I believe that pragmatics dictates the &#039;independently unspecified&#039; interpretation, and that to get the same value an explicit &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; is needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think this example shows clearly why not. &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; actually has five places, so&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama la lidz. .e la bratfrd.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
means&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama la lidz. e. la bratfrd. zo&#039;e zo&#039;e zo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If this is construed as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama la lidz. da de di .ije mi klama la bratfrd. da de di&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
in order to be sure that the origin (da) is the same in both bridi, then we are put in the silly position of insisting that the route (&amp;quot;de&amp;quot;) must also be the same for both destinations! Thanks for providing this example.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark Shoulson:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lately I have taken to trying to think of how to translate English expressions that I hear on the radio into Lojban&#039;s structure (not necessarily the words; my vocabulary isn&#039;t that big and I can&#039;t flip through lists whilst driving.) One struck me this morning and led to a little thought about some of Lojban&#039;s connectives. This is a pretty basic question and I&#039;m positive it&#039;s been dealt with before (I can&#039;t remember reading about it anywhere in Lojban&#039;s literature, but I think it&#039;s there somewhere). Anyway, it was a commercial for some clothing sale, and it was saying how they have &amp;quot;clothes for men and women&amp;quot;. Now. Do they mean &amp;quot;clothes for men as well as clothes for women&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;clothes which may be worn both by men and women&amp;quot;? I think these are plausible ways of handling these readings in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo taxfu be lo&#039;e nanmu .e lo&#039;e ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
 clothes for men and clothes for women; not necessarily that the same clothes be for both.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo taxfu be lo&#039;e nanmu ku jo&#039;u lo ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
 unisex clothes, for both sexes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is this a legitimate distinction between &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;jo&#039;u&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot; is a logical connective, and I imagine it as asserting the relevant bridi twice, as it were, once for each of its arguments, with no connection in between. &amp;quot;mi .e la djan. klama&amp;quot; means that &amp;quot;I and John go/come, not necessarily that we do so together or at the same time or having anything to do with one another&amp;quot;, while &amp;quot;mi jo&#039;u la djan. klama&amp;quot; implies more of a connection, while &amp;quot;mi joi la djan. klama&amp;quot; implies that we worked on it as a team, so the action could really only be said to have been accomplished by both of us in concert.&lt;br /&gt;
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I realize that this example is open to other methods, including relative clauses and the like. Also, note that you could argue that unisex clothes are not for &amp;quot;men AND women&amp;quot; but rather for &amp;quot;men OR women&amp;quot;, and require the use of &amp;quot;.a&amp;quot;, the inclusive-OR or some such. What are the opinions of you folks out there?&lt;br /&gt;
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 lo taxfu be lo&#039;e nanmu .e lo&#039;e ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seems to me be equivalent (modulo existence) to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 da poi taxfu lo&#039;e nanmu .e lo&#039;e ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which expands to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 da poi ge taxfu lo&#039;e nanmu gi taxfu lo&#039;e ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i.e. something which is clothing for men and is clothing for women. This seems to me to mean strictly unisex clothing. I think &#039;.a&#039; will do quite happily for clothing that will do for a man, a woman or both.&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not yet familiar with the non-logical connectives (I&#039;m suddenly assimilating two or three years&#039; worth of language development in a very short time .ue), but I would have thought that the &amp;quot;jo&#039;u&amp;quot; example would mean what more like what you said for &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a question: are &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;jo&#039;u&amp;quot; permissible when there group/mixture in fact contains only one of the connectands? Does &amp;quot;lo ninmu joi nanmu&amp;quot; imply that there are members of both sexes in the group?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Well, actually, I think more that it implies a hermaphrodite human mass; i.e. it exhibits properties of both genders simultaneously, as per a mass (with &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; as the gadri, the thing itself need not be a mass). Compare the classic Loglan example (translated into Lojban vocabulary) &amp;quot;lo xunre joi xekri bolci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;a red-and-black ball&amp;quot;, which is neither red, nor black, but a combination of the two. It would not be correct to call something a &amp;quot;red-and-black ball&amp;quot; in English unless there was some element of both colors on the ball.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Causality in Lojban===&lt;br /&gt;
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[A discussion between Lojbab, And Rosta and Jim Carter led to the following formulation of a significant and cohesive portion of Lojban semantics.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban embeds several varieties of expressions of causality. JCB originally analyzed Loglan causality as being of four types. Further analysis during the development of Lojban has identified other expressions of causality that are embedded in the language design.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. rinka (ri&#039;a) is principally physical causation, but has pragmatically tended to be a catch all for causations that don&#039;t fit other categories. This is historical, because JCB used rinka&#039;s equivalent for general causation. See below for our solution.&lt;br /&gt;
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 (I push) rinka (Jack falls).&lt;br /&gt;
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2. sarcu (sau) is &#039;necessary&#039;, &#039;rinka&#039; implies nothing about necessity.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. mukti (mu&#039;i) deals with motives and their (potentially) resulting actions.&lt;br /&gt;
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 mukti = x1 motivates activity x2 on the part of agent x3&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve decided that English has no good word for the x2 of mukti.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is the motivated action. The activity may or may not take place but is at least achievable in the mind of the agent x3.&lt;br /&gt;
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 (I want money) mukti (I work)&lt;br /&gt;
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4. krinu (ri&#039;u) is explanatory causation; the x1 is the reason and the x2 is the thing explained.&lt;br /&gt;
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 (giraffes eat from trees) krinu (therefore) (giraffes have long necks)&lt;br /&gt;
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5. nibli (ni&#039;i) is logical entailment. S entails T when there is a logic (a list of logical transformations or theorem steps or applications of definitions of words) that starts with S and ends with T.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. jalge (ja&#039;e) indicates &amp;quot;result&amp;quot;. It is a reversed direction causal that serves as the generic of causation, thus freeing rinka for its more limited meanings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 x1 is the result of x2 (x2 is the cause of x1)&lt;br /&gt;
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7. zukte (zu&#039;e) helps distinguish motives from goals&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 x1 acts at x2 to achieve x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the basic claim of &amp;quot;zukte&amp;quot; is that an action is taken in order to achieve the goal. &amp;quot;mukti&amp;quot; operates in the world of mental reality, and implies a relation between a motive and a motivational result. There is a weaker inference that the motivational result actually takes place; the person motivated might be unable to do what he is motivated to do.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. By contrast, for simple agentive causation, use gasnu (gau)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 x1 is agent in action x2&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot; is closely related to &amp;quot;zukte&amp;quot; but does not imply any purpose or goal on the part of the agent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Another contrast with mukti, zukte and gasnu might be troci (&amp;quot;try&amp;quot;), which implies an agent and an activity. The activity may not take place, but is at least attempted. It is not clear with troci that there is any motive or goal beyond the attempt itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. sarcu mentioned above, can express &amp;quot;necessary conditions&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;sufficient conditions&amp;quot; may either be curmi (permit/allow) or banzu (sufficient). Of course, the entailment of nibli covers logical sufficiency, a fairly limited variety.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that the Lojban logical equivalent of &amp;quot;if...then&amp;quot;, unlike the phrase in English, does not imply causality (Example: &amp;quot;if you water the plant, then it will grow&amp;quot;). In Lojban, it is undesirable to infer causation from such a statement. In Lojban, such an if-then is represented as &amp;quot;not a or b&amp;quot;, from which causation is simply not inferable. The Lojban sentence ends up being equivalent to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Either you water the plant, or the plant does not grow.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since logical OR is reversible, this means the same as&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Either the plant does not grow, or you water the plant.&lt;br /&gt;
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===On le and lo and Existence===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Another Lojban List discussion led to the following explanation by Lojbab:]&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;le&#039; relations or abstract events are specific products of the speaker&#039;s mind and hence must exist only in that mind. The description is a label and need not be accurate.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;lo&#039; and &#039;loi&#039; claim only that the described thing/event is something that actually fits the description, but doesn&#039;t claim that any such thing exists.&lt;br /&gt;
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 le ninmu cu nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;The woman is a man.&amp;quot; might be a statement about a male transvestite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;quot;lo ninmu cu nanmu&amp;quot; would not apply to a male transvestite unless you assert that a male can actually be a woman.&lt;br /&gt;
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You thus can make statements &#039;le&#039; and &#039;lo&#039; about &#039;non-existent&#039; things like unicorns. Want(x,y) in English makes no implication about existence of either x or y; e.g. The unicorn wants a maiden, where x is non-existent but y is (potentially) existent.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lojban you assert or reject existence through the use of quantified variables (da, de, di) which implicitly or explicitly invoke a prenex:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 da zo&#039;u da djica lo broda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 For some x, x wants a maiden&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;da&amp;quot; presumably excludes unicorns, since they do not exist in our universe&lt;br /&gt;
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With or without a prenex, you can use a restrictive relative clause:&lt;br /&gt;
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 da poi danl,iunikorni cu djica lo ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
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which is false, because the x1 is the empty set.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;lo x&amp;quot; can thus be taken as equivalent to &amp;quot;if x exists, then some x&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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But this formulation has a problem. By the rules of symbolic logic, any conditional statement with a false antecedent is true. And thus a statement using &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; where the referent is a nonexistent x will be a true statement, including the contradictory:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo danl,iunikorni cu zasti&lt;br /&gt;
 Unicorns exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, all attempts to analyze &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; run into some such problems, but the result is a useful shorthand regardless. Thus, we retain &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; as a useful part of the human Lojban, while realizing that good &#039;logical&#039; usage would be to use &amp;quot;da poi ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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If there is a way out, it is to state that something exists because we can conceive of it, and it has the properties we attribute to it in our conception. This approach works around the conditional aspect of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;, but no doubt is unsettling philosophically. Of course in the world of logic, things often &#039;exist&#039; that don&#039;t apply in the &#039;real world&#039;, so this might be the best approach.&lt;br /&gt;
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===A Heated Exchange?===&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab:&lt;br /&gt;
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If I write:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 2 +&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
you know there is something missing ... you yearn for another number, to complete the expression. The same with a Lojban expression:&lt;br /&gt;
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 mi klama&lt;br /&gt;
 I come/go.&lt;br /&gt;
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is incomplete. In Lojban, you yearn for a destination, departure, path, and means. ...&lt;br /&gt;
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Art Protin comments and Bob Slaughter responds in italics:&lt;br /&gt;
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I hate to have to say this so strongly, (and Bob please don&#039;t be offended,) but I find to be totally without merit, bogus, the comments offered [above].&lt;br /&gt;
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While I can easily accept that we need a far different model to think about Lojban than the one we use for thinking about English, I reject any suggestion that&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi klama&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is in any way incomplete. The image that I construct in my mind is small corresponding to the small amount of data provided, and it has &amp;quot;hooks&amp;quot; where I might attach additional data like the destination.&lt;br /&gt;
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: &#039;&#039;Then obviously you haven&#039;t learned to think in Lojban. :) Perhaps the phrase &amp;quot;is not fully completed&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;incomplete&amp;quot; might make more sense here. You may not yearn for them, but you know there are unanswered items, because the &amp;quot;hooks&amp;quot; are far more explicit in Lojban than English.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Other dialog/monolog is required to elevate that &amp;quot;slot&amp;quot; to any greater prominence. If that piece of the whole picture becomes both important and unspecified, I will inquire as I would for any other data I need to satisfy my view of that picture.&lt;br /&gt;
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: &#039;&#039;Bingo!! The unladen &amp;quot;hooks&amp;quot; are meant to be filled, or questioned. Lojban is a dialog-based language, rather than a monolog-based language like Standard Written English. I can see where a speaker of English &amp;quot;sees&amp;quot; &amp;quot;I come&amp;quot; as a fully completed sentence with no unknown information, but all speakers will know the speaker of &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot; could&#039;ve said something but consciously didn&#039;t. Hmmm, imagine what that means for Lojbanistani politicians.....&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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I see no reason to provide any members of any relation (predicate) that are not relevant to the discourse. That the provided members can/do have the designated role in some instance of the relation is all that the language can express. We might, with sufficient dialog and experience, be relatively certain that we know exactly which instance is being described, but there can be no guarantees. (This is not a property of just Lojban but of human communication in general.)&lt;br /&gt;
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: &#039;&#039;But I might see a need for me to know something you said, so I will ask. But, it is the assumption of accurate and inaccurate assumptions that Lojban brings to the front of its conversation mode. By knowing there is unspecified data, and emphasizing it, we change the form of communication. Rather than pontification and counter-pontification discourse, we should have fully interactive dialog discourse.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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==Language Goals==&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are essays related to the goals of the language, most of them dealing with aspects of the application of Loglan/Lojban to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. However, for the computer-inclined, we include a report on a new project using Lojban for artificial intelligence/natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Lojban and Metaphysical Bias===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(a discussion between And Rosta [not-indented] and Lojbab [indented])&lt;br /&gt;
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Does one necessarily wish to avoid metaphysical bias? I would always wish to be able to say that something is at the &amp;quot;back&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;front&amp;quot; of my mind, or that I am in &amp;quot;high&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;low&amp;quot; spirits. I might wish to avoid distinguishing recipients from destinations and treat them as the same thing; I might want to treat possession as a kind of location, say.&lt;br /&gt;
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: In Lojban, we want to remove metaphysical bias when possible. It isn&#039;t always. The examples you have selected are examples that we will be trying to eliminate (at least in translation to Lojban), because they are English biased figures of speech, and it is not necessarily universal that all cultures consider &amp;quot;high&amp;quot; spirits to be better than &amp;quot;low&amp;quot; ones, or that the &#039;mind as queue&#039; metaphor is superior to the &#039;mind as stack&#039; one.&lt;br /&gt;
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I follow the cognitivist doctrines of George Lakoff and his colleagues, of Jackendoff and of Langacker. (These are very simply expounded in Jackendoff&#039;s review article of Lakoff&#039;s new book in the June 1991 Language.) This doctrine maintains that certain things are conceptualized only metaphorically. Metaphors whose vehicles are space and the body predominate, and are used to conceptualize more abstract things. Some of these metaphors are claimed to be grounded in universal human cognition, and others to be dependent on culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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We therefore could, maybe, draw the following conclusions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1a) Lojban&#039;s aim (of removing metaphysical bias) is doomed to fail.&lt;br /&gt;
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: The goal is to &#039;minimize&#039; it, not remove it. For situations where one or more roughly equivalent methods exist to express something, but each is biased in some way, we try to allow all of them. If we must be arbitrary among several choices, we choose a single way, but are prone to choosing a non-English way to counter the tendency for English biases to creep in.&lt;br /&gt;
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(1b) Lojban&#039;s aim flies in the face of the way we really think and is therefore a hindrance to thought.&lt;br /&gt;
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: This we will find out. The problem is that certain concepts are always metaphorized because we have no primitive non-metaphor to express them in NLs. Thus we have a chicken and egg problem. Lojban will try for a different egg.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now even if metaphorless Lojban is possible, why is one supposed to avoid metaphor? My English-biased conceptual metaphors are the way I think.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Not if you are trying to communicate to someone from Thailand who does not know your metaphors. In an earlier book, Lakoff noted that not all cultures shared the same metaphors (e.g. &amp;quot;up&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;future&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;up&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;past&amp;quot;, I think was one dichotomy). I prefer a language that says that future is future and makes no links with &#039;up&#039; or &#039;down&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
: (Remember that the goal of Lojban involving Sapir-Whorf means that as much as possible we must reduce and/or identify all sources of bias that would affect &#039;world-view&#039; - which to me is a very similar concept to &#039;metaphysics&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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===Sapir-Whorfian Thoughts?===&lt;br /&gt;
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In response to a question from James Meritt, Lojbab said the following:&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no evidence yet of Lojban providing thoughts that are unthinkable in English, but the constraints of English syntax do tend to make thinking in certain ways more difficult. It would be a long time before we truly came up with an example that unambivalently is uniquely Lojbanic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmm. I&#039;ll have to amend this. In our discussions of the last week or two regarding Lojban property abstracts, it has become pretty clear that while it is possible more or less to define what is taking place using English words, I think it accurate to say that most of them have no English equivalent in any meaningful sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, &amp;quot;loika melbi&amp;quot; translates as &amp;quot;Beauty&amp;quot; the abstract concept and &amp;quot;leka lemi speni cu melbi&amp;quot; more roughly as &amp;quot;my wife&#039;s beauty&amp;quot; but more accurately as &amp;quot;the properties that make it true that my wife is beautiful [by some standard to some observer]&amp;quot;. But with most predicate words, there is no English equivalent for the property abstract. For example, &amp;quot;loika klama&amp;quot; would translate as &amp;quot;Going-ness&amp;quot; if that were an English word - already hard to grasp, while its counterpart:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 leka mi klama le zarci&lt;br /&gt;
 the properties that make it true that I go to the store&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
conveys no sense of exactly what sort of properties these might be - we would tend in English to start thinking in terms of causes, which is not what the Lojban means, because &amp;quot;Going-ness&amp;quot; is just not an English concept. But constructs like this are rather easy to express in Lojban, and in some cases are virtually obligatory. A particular &amp;quot;Going-ness&amp;quot; for example is the property that is being compared when we say that I go to my local Safeway more than you do.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether use of statements like this in Lojban means that anything new and different in human thinking will arise as a result of this implication, is what is still not clear.&lt;br /&gt;
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Going beyond this, I can say that there are a lot more perhaps more obscure things that can be easily said in Lojban, but which defy English translation. Lojban does after all, allow and almost encourage the expression of &amp;quot;grammatical nonsense&amp;quot;, of the &amp;quot;green ideas sleep furiously&amp;quot; variety, but even weirder. People can indeed wrap their minds around such nonsense (for this English example, I have seen proposed places where it might actually be meaningful), but it can reasonably be said that the Lojban equivalents go far beyond what anyone will ever understand in English translation. Whether a Lojbanist thinking in Lojban will &#039;understand&#039; such statements in the sense that we can understand &amp;quot;green ideas sleep furiously&amp;quot; is also presumable, but as yet unverifiable.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Metacognition-friendly Languages===&lt;br /&gt;
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On the conlang mailing list, Zack Smith asked:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Has anyone heard of any languages that specifically support and facilitate metacognitive thought?&lt;br /&gt;
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Or, put differently,&lt;br /&gt;
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Has anyone designed a language for critical, self-effacing thinkers, for the facilitation of processes which lead to success in thought?&lt;br /&gt;
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For those who are unfamiliar with this topic, metacognition is essentially &amp;quot;thought about thought&amp;quot;. It&#039;s what most successful thinkers do to remove biases, limitations of thought, mistakes due to the failings of human memory systems, etc. With metacognition comes many freedoms in thinking, living, feeling, creating, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab:&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;d like to think that Lojban has many of the things Zack is looking for in a language for metacognitive thought. We certainly have a lot of the features he mentioned in his posting. So perhaps he might like to investigate Lojban. Specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Lojban has a predicate grammar, and rephrasing your thoughts in a predicate formation tends to require you to think a little more carefully about what you are trying to say.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban has an extremely powerful and flexible tense system, stretching rather beyond what natural languages do in our desire to encompass the full scope of what natural language is capable of expressing in tense.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban separates the speaker&#039;s emotional attitudes from the statements being expressed, and all &amp;quot;emotion-loaded&amp;quot; words are marked.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban has a grammar for metalinguistic discussion which is distinct from the regular grammar, allow you to express metalinguistically relevant information, again separate from the main statement.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban has a set of evidentials, again distinct from the main grammar, which allows you to succinctly indicate how you come to make a statement (deduction, hearsay, definition or assumption, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
# Most of these markers that convey metalinguistic information can be attached/focused at the sentence level, phrase level, or individual word level, as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban handles certain constructs commonly associated with logic in the manner that predicate logic does; thus we have no confusion between OR and XOR, and distinguish clearly between causal if-then and implicational if-then (we also have embedded in the language several kinds of causality). Quantification and negation work as they do in predicate logic, hopefully reducing the types of errors that can result from misapplying these features of logic.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban deals clearly with multiple levels of abstraction, as are often involved in even simple natural language expressions, with each level being clearly distinguished from the others, and specific constructs for &amp;quot;raising&amp;quot; objects from one level of sentence abstraction structure to another.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ralph Dumain commented:&lt;br /&gt;
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[#8] is the only feature you mention that particularly impresses me as significant for dealing with questions of &amp;quot;world-view&amp;quot;. Could you give a few examples or refer me (us) to the proper locations in the Lojban literature that explain this feature?&lt;br /&gt;
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[Lojbab: This is the entirety of what we call &amp;quot;sumti-raising&amp;quot;, dealt with extensively in JL16.]&lt;br /&gt;
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In further discussion, Jeff Prothero commented [in italics] and Zack responded:&lt;br /&gt;
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: My basic conclusions are more or less:&lt;br /&gt;
: (1) One could do a measurably better job on a language for thinking type purposes, but the pay-back doesn&#039;t justify it for an individual or small group...&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t accept this assertion, for several reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. I believe that the human mind can always use a little exercise.&lt;br /&gt;
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I subscribe to the idea that the mind is like the muscular system: The individual should exercise it regularly, and not miss any major areas..&lt;br /&gt;
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My tools to this end are self-analysis and a language oriented toward clarity and self- (re)directing thought; though I do other things as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. The mind makes mistakes, either because of emotional factors, various and sundry conditionings, sociological factors, or because the human memory system just isn&#039;t very reliable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hence, a continual untangling of memories and thoughts is necessary. Freud suggested that dreams fulfill this purpose to an extent. I&#039;m no Zen master, but I prefer to not leave things up to dreams alone. There is no free lunch when it comes to mental health, clarity of mind, or clarity of ideas. The more one borrows, the more one accepts blindly, the worse one is.&lt;br /&gt;
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My language exists to aid me in performing such clarification work.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (2) Most of the really high-payoff ideas fail due to human limitations...&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve definitely encountered trade-offs with my language, and I agree that some features will fail to get into -any-language because they&#039;re too unusual, too expensive to use, or too difficult to learn to use.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, I wanted at one point to expand the number of auxiliary pronouns (this, that) from three or so to about 8. The idea was that eventually, using them would translate to the speaker/thinker having one conceptual chunk in short-term memory, into which the speaker would reference whichever items he needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Without going into the details, the problems were that (A) I couldn&#039;t get anyone to even try to learn my language, (B) the feature itself was unusual, (C) the feature required a considerable shift in thinking, and (D) I estimated that the feature wouldn&#039;t be used often enough to justify its existence.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (3) The syntactic stuff isn&#039;t all that interesting, most of the important design decisions are in the conceptual vocabulary. Working on this is way beyond the current capabilities of any small group ... but if one thinks about it, finding/fashioning an effective set of concepts for understanding self/thought/universe is more or less what the entire international scientific machine is working on.&lt;br /&gt;
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The first sentence is right on the money, but the rest I think is incorrect. Metacognition, the aim of my language, is the idea that one can improve on thought itself, not thought about any given topic. The reason is that there are considerable similarities in the reasoning that a stock-broker does in his life and that reasoning that any other person does. The points I&#039;m expressing are key to the topic of creating a metacognitive language. They are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Patterns of successful thought are universal, regardless of who is thinking them, where, when, or what the topics of reasoning are. [Lojbab comments: I&#039;m not even sure that the standard of what constitutes &#039;successful thought&#039; is universal. Nora adds: As a critical thinker, Zack should take another look at his assumptions. For example, on the job I am very good at analyzing details, but I sometimes have problems with the &#039;big picture&#039;. These two levels of reasoning can give different answers on the same topic, and yet either can be successful given the appropriate situation.]&lt;br /&gt;
# The same holds for mistakes of reasoning, be they biases, mental sets, etc. No one is immune from ignorance, fear, stupidity, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# And, because the mechanisms of successful thought are universal and identifiable, the basic concepts on which they are based can be coded and regularly used.&lt;br /&gt;
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The work is in finding the concepts, like you suggested.&lt;br /&gt;
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For instance, imagine going through a dictionary, word by word, and working out the precise semantic structure of each word, then trying to identify core concepts are strategies for constructing words and phrases out of those core concepts, and still have it be nice to hear and easy to use. Yikes.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, a scan of an entire dictionary isn&#039;t necessary. I think that the examination of a small group of words can provide considerable food for thought.&lt;br /&gt;
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The question is, what is the essence of natural phenomena? What do the processes of creating art, writing papers, brokering stocks, running a business, being a responsible politician, being a corrupt politician, or making toast for oneself all have in common? The answer, I think, lies in the studies of psychology, evolution, formal logic, problem solving, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: (4) While natural languages tend to be uninterestingly different clones of each other, the space of possible languages is much larger than the little volume they cluster in, and one can have languages which make it possible to think thoughts one wouldn&#039;t come up with in natural language, thoughts which can&#039;t even be expressed in natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
: At least one such language has been fashioned... we call it &amp;quot;mathematics&amp;quot;... an easy point to giggle and dismiss, but worthy of more serious attention than that...&lt;br /&gt;
: On a more mundane level, I think you might find Jim Carter&#039;s &#039;Guaspi&#039; the best laid out conlang aimed in the general direction you&#039;re going. Loglan has (imho) an excess of hair. Jim&#039;s language strips out most of the irrelevancies, not too far in spirit from some of my own efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
: I suspect if you put some time in studying, you&#039;ll come to share my conclusion that if one strips out the uninteresting restrictions and syntax hacks from a language, there&#039;s nothing interesting left at the syntactic/superficial level... one is left with more or less the spoken equivalent of Lisp, with a simple universal parsing mechanism that doesn&#039;t commit one to anything, and all the interesting content relegated to the selection of concepts/functions to use in the vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I took my first gander at a Loglan manual today, and I think that you&#039;re assertion that Loglan has much unnecessary fluff could be correct. For instance, why encode colors? In my language, I permit the speaker to import context-relevant data such as names of colors. I want to give the speaker/thinker the stuff of thought, not the fluff. I&#039;m not creating culture here. [Nora comments: This is OK for individual thought, but not if you want to be understood by others, especially those of a different culture.]&lt;br /&gt;
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As far as the Lisp argument above goes, I&#039;ll have to study some more. I don&#039;t understand how you envision language being used, and how a non-fuzzy logic language e.g. Lisp could usefully serve a sentient organism or machine. I don&#039;t agree that all verbal expressions (in any language) break down into logic, unless perhaps it&#039;s fuzzy logic. Even if they do, that&#039;s like proving 1+1=2 in logic - it takes several hundred pages - so why bother... [Nora rebuts: Because the very fact of doing so shows the questioning/examining of assumptions - the very thing Zack professes to want.] It&#039;s like talking about Hitler&#039;s taste in clothing rather than his crimes against humanity. Different subjects, different purposes, no?&lt;br /&gt;
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Also - I&#039;m not interested in taking out all of the hacks of a language - shortcuts and approximations are fine by me, so long as the language forces the speaker to note their existence in some way. A Lisp-like conlang is an extreme, impractical solution, especially for those of us who dislike Lisp.&lt;br /&gt;
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The middle-road solution is to allocate one&#039;s semantic information as usefully and well as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
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I want to allocate it for the metacognitive information - e.g., the estimations of utility or arguability, the estimations of linkage between expression and goals, the assessments of a speaker&#039;s emotional state, the protocol for cooperation between speakers, the statements of problems and tentative solutions, the acknowledgement and removal of bias or limitations of thought, the estimation of correlation, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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In terms of computer languages, I&#039;m going for C++ rather than Lisp. I want the core concepts to be related to actions, events, objects, abstractions, scripts; not merely relations or predicates. Logic is essential, but I see it as one part of a larger process.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then again, I&#039;ve considered making my language only an extension to other languages, perhaps it&#039;s more like Objective-C than C++. ...&lt;br /&gt;
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[On further questioning as to his goals, Zack replied:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My project is still in its initial stages, compared to Loglan. The goals have evolved to include...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Choices of basic concepts which propitiate human thought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here I ask, how do humans think, i.e. what basic data types does the brain appear to process? For instance, some AI&#039;ers assert that all thought is, or should be, based on predicate knowledge. I find this inaccurate and limiting.&lt;br /&gt;
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By &amp;quot;basic concept&amp;quot; I refer to a notion which is semantically atomic, a sort of original or root class of semantic notions. These concepts would be used to form more complex words and sentence structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, if &amp;quot;market&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;protection&amp;quot; are basic concepts, then the word &amp;quot;democracy&amp;quot; would be based on both of those words, since democracy is the protection of a market in which the commodities are variations on kinds of government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that my objective is not to rewrite Webster&#039;s, but to get critical words pinned down, then import context-specific words verbatim by attaching a prefix and suffix.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Choices of basic concepts which propitiate self-examining thought. This essentially would include the ideas of :&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A. The encoding of metacognitive information, e.g. for the objective assessment of arguments between speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: B. The identification of information which describes the functioning of information processing systems such as humans and mammals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: For instance, it&#039;s easy to assert that Freud&#039;s &amp;quot;repression&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;setting aside and ignoring&amp;quot; (that was the original German meaning) is not only likely, but necessary. Any information processing system (e.g. the human mind) which must interact constantly with its environment whilst juggling multiple conflicting goals certainly must ignore some important data (repression), and certainly misfiles other important data (hence dreams and sudden recollections/ideas as means of bringing misfiled or repressed data to consciousness).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Any serious metacognitive language must take these effects into account, because they are psychological phenomena which affect the arguments and ideas presented by the speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
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: By the same token, biases, mental sets, and other phenomena must be identified through the language. They affect any such system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: C. Means of forcing the speaker to think before he expresses himself, in particular, to translate his concepts into terms of the workings of his own psychology.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This is a critical point; here is an example argument for such a feature: Suppose a boy hits his brother without provocation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Ask yourself, what is the most useful means of teaching that boy the error of his action?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Besides using basic operant conditioning (no TV for You!), I suggest the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You ask him to explain his own experience in choosing to act as he did. Don&#039;t just ask for justification; ask for self-examination, then push him toward self-modeling, to cause him to realize that he himself is a collection of feelings and people, that he is responsible for all of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;m not suggesting that one force him to identify his &amp;quot;evil side&amp;quot;; rather, the phenomenon that causes a behavior, e.g. insecurity, rivalry, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This language must force the speaker to look within himself for the causes of his making expressions or the content of those expressions. The reason is simple: This is the path toward clarification of one&#039;s own thoughts and toward metacognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;m not certain, but I think that Loglan doesn&#039;t force this analysis. It permits prefixing of phrases to improve discourse between speakers (e.g. it has prefixes for &amp;quot;suppose that&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;for example&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;is it that&amp;quot;, etc.), but causes aren&#039;t characterized.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: D. Evolutionary processes, and the phenomena which determine or found them, must be tightly coded. Considerably more real phenomena can be explained with evolutionary logic (or simulated with genetic algorithms, probably) than meets the eye. Evolution is critical to who we are, why we are here, what we will become...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: E. Basic logic, or fuzzy logic, should be supported (tightly coded).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...[Later, Zack expanded upon his earlier statement: &amp;quot;... a mechanism for expressing tense information&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is neither critical, nor did I intend it to seem so. It is important, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve found that of all places, lack of clarity in tense information is the most contagious, i.e. it affects to other types of information in one&#039;s expressions. Once tense becomes unclear, it&#039;s all lost. One can&#039;t speak about events, actions, activities, what have you, with any precision if tense info is imprecise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Richard Kennaway responded with some ideas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the main faults I find with woolly writing or speaking, especially in technical talks at conferences, is a lack of attention by the speaker to making clear the reason that he is saying what he is saying. It seems to me that it is impossible to understand an utterance unless one understands the reasons for making it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus I would like to see means provided in the language for easily expressing such meta-information throughout one&#039;s speech. Off the top of my head, here are a few communication modes that might be worth expressing explicitly, rather than leaving them unspoken as is usually done:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* background information to indicate what area of knowledge the speaker is dealing with, what knowledge he expects his audience to know, and to help those in the audience less acquainted with the subject.&lt;br /&gt;
* new knowledge that he wishes to impart.&lt;br /&gt;
* a summary of what he has just explained in detail.&lt;br /&gt;
* a summary of what he is about to explain in detail.&lt;br /&gt;
* an informal description intended purely to convey informal insight, rather than a precise statement.&lt;br /&gt;
* smalltalk (utterances whose literal meaning hardly matters at all, the starter motor of social intercourse, not to be confused with the main engine).&lt;br /&gt;
* a question to which a definite answer is required, in contrast to...&lt;br /&gt;
* a question which is part of a conversation, which the hearer need not rigidly stick to in formulating a response.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s an interesting book by Deborah Tannen, called That&#039;s not what I meant!, suggesting that a lot of miscommunication is due to people being unaware of the different modes of communication that they and others are using. Perhaps mechanisms encouraging the explicit marking of such modes would help.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have only glanced through her later book, called (I think) You just don&#039;t understand!, in which she claims to correlate these different modes with gender. I suspect that it is just a repackaging of old wine in a trendy new gender-polarised bottle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Per Richard&#039;s comments. I think that a language used for solely for introspection, whether metacognitive or otherwise, is going to be significantly different from one used for interaction. So much of the problems of communication between people stem from things such as what Richard mentions (all of which I believe are covered in the Lojban design, but optionally). But few are really relevant to the problems Zack seems to refer to in self-analysis of his own thought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The philosophers in the Lojban community (most of whom are not on the computer nets), may have something useful to say about Zack&#039;s ideas, and what (if anything) Lojban has to support his ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==le lojbo se ciska (cont.)==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Lojbab) don&#039;t have many complaints about Nick&#039;s work in the following two stories. They were not passed by an independent editor, but Nick indicated that they had been reviewed on the computer nets a couple of times, and that he had made changes appropriately. Alas, he had not checked the text with a parser (only some minor errors), and he had two non-existent gismu in the second tale, one of which rquired guesswork to figure his intent since it was not a simple typo. But the texts are readable, and my formatting rules that failed to handle Nick&#039;s coffeehouse text are probably satisfactory for this text. All comments are from me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Two Greek Folk Tales translated by Nick Nicholas===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I. melu la xrist. na.enai la pacrux. seljdadji da li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.ika&#039;u la pacrux. klama la xrist. gi&#039;e bacru ®lu ?pe&#039;ipei ?xu do jinvi ledu&#039;u leti cange bakplixa goi ko&#039;a xriso li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu !pe&#039;i go&#039;i li&#039;u¯ selba&#039;u la xrist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu do srera (to&#039;i la pacrux. spuda toi) =.i le kakpa cu me !cai !ba&#039;e mi !sa&#039;e =.i mi&#039;o fau lenu do na krici lenu go&#039;i cu .!e&#039;u klama ca le cermurse leko&#039;a cange poi ko&#039;a tsise&#039;a&amp;lt;ref name =voso /&amp;gt; =.i do vi le cange cu !ba&#039;a zgana lenu ko&#039;a me mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca le bavlamdei ke clira clira la xrist. joi la pacrux. klama le cange po ko&#039;a gi&#039;e se mipstu loi stani =.i le kakpa cu !ba&#039;e sutra klama gi&#039;enai kruce jdaxanmu&#039;u gi&#039;e lasna le bakni le te plixa gi&#039;e co&#039;a renro lei tsiju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu .!e&#039;o ko zgana .!u&#039;a (to&#039;i la pacrux. bacru toi) =.i ko&#039;a cu !sai me mi =.i ko&#039;a ni&#039;i le !da&#039;i nu ko&#039;a me do cu jdaxanmu&#039;u pu lenu co&#039;a gunka li&#039;u¯ ®lu le kakpa cu !ja&#039;o to&#039;e depcni fi lemu&#039;e mulgau lenu tsise&#039;a =.i ko denpa lemu&#039;e midydo&#039;i =.i ca ri ko&#039;a co&#039;a citka =.i do ca zgana lenu ko&#039;a jdaxanmu&#039;u li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i midydo&#039;i =.i ko&#039;a co&#039;a citka gi&#039;enai jdaxanmu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ®lu .!e&#039;o ko zgana .!u&#039;a (to&#039;i la pacrux. bacru toi) =.i ko&#039;a ni&#039;i le !da&#039;i nu ko&#039;a me do cu jdaxanmu&#039;u pu lenu citka =.i do caki na ji&#039;u darlu =.i ko&#039;a me !cai mi li&#039;u ¯ ®lu .!e&#039;o ko denpa =.i go ko&#039;a mo&#039;u citka gi&#039;enaicabo jdaxanmu&#039;u gi ko&#039;a me do .!e&#039;a li&#039;u¯ =.i ko&#039;a mutce citka gi&#039;e mutce pinxe gi&#039;enaiba&#039;obo jdaxanmu&#039;u gi&#039;eji&#039;a .!uero&#039;a cladu gaxykafke =.i la xrist. bacru ®lu ko&#039;a .!ainai ca .!e&#039;a me do li&#039;u¯ =.i la pacrux. cu bacru ®lu .!ienai na go&#039;i =.i ko&#039;a .!ainaicai me ko li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither Christ nor the Devil wants him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once the Devil went to Christ and said &amp;quot;Pray tell, do you think that plougher is a Christian?&amp;quot; &amp;quot;I do.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;You&#039;re wrong&amp;quot;, the Devil answered, &amp;quot;the plougher is all mine. If you don&#039;t believe me, let&#039;s go to his farm next dawn when he&#039;s ploughing. There you&#039;ll see he&#039;s mine.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Very early the next day, Christ and the Devil went to the plougher&#039;s farm and hid in some branches. The plougher hastened to the farm, didn&#039;t make the sign of the cross, attached the bulls to the plough and started sowing. &amp;quot;See?&amp;quot; said the Devil. &amp;quot;He&#039;s mine. If he was yours, he&#039;d make the sign of the cross before working.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The plougher is impatient to finish sowing. Wait for midday. Then he&#039;ll eat. You&#039;ll see him making the sign of the cross then.&amp;quot; It became midday. The plougher started eating and didn&#039;t make the sign of the cross.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;See?&amp;quot; said the Devil. &amp;quot;If he was yours, he&#039;d make the sign of the cross before eating. You can&#039;t argue anymore. He&#039;s all mine.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Wait. If he finishes eating and doesn&#039;t make the sign of the cross, he&#039;s yours.&amp;quot; The plougher ate a lot, drank a lot, didn&#039;t make the sign of the cross, and to top it all off, let off a huge fart! Christ said &amp;quot;Now, you can have him.&amp;quot; The Devil said &amp;quot;No, you have him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=voso &amp;gt;I would probably use &amp;quot;tsipe&#039;a&amp;quot; (seed-spread) or &amp;quot;tsifai&amp;quot; (seed-distribute) rather than &amp;quot;seed-insert&amp;quot;, though my knowledge of farming is not particularly noteworthy.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
II. (untitled)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.ika&#039;u pukiku le prenu goi ko&#039;a cu mutce nelci lenu kelci loi kelkarda =.i ko&#039;a ze&#039;i cusku fi leko&#039;a speni fe ®lu .!e&#039;u vi&#039;ecpe la xrist. mu&#039;i lenu friti lo midydo&#039;i sanmi ra li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. cu te cusku le sego&#039;i gi&#039;e frasku ®lu mi .!ai klama li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.ike&#039;unai ca le midydo&#039;i la xrist. noi se kansa ro leri tadni cu klama =.i leko&#039;a speni bazi lenu viska ri joi ra cusku ®lu le nanba na banzu .!u&#039;u .!oiro&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. cusku ®lu .!i&#039;a ja&#039;a go&#039;i =.i ti cavi nanba =.iseni&#039;ibo ti .!o&#039;o bazivi se citka mi&#039;o li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i nicygai le jubme =.i zutse mu&#039;i lenu citka =.i la xrist. cestoldapma le nanba =.i ri banzu tu&#039;a lei citka gi&#039;e .!u&#039;a dukse&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once there was a man who loved playing cards. One day, he said to his wife, &amp;quot;Invite Christ here so we can offer him lunch.&amp;quot; Christ was told this and responded &amp;quot;I&#039;ll go.&amp;quot; So, at noon Christ, accompanied by all his student, came there. The man&#039;s wife, upon seeing them, said: &amp;quot;Oh, there won&#039;t be enough bread!&amp;quot; Christ said: &amp;quot;I think there will. This is the bread we&#039;ve got, so this is what we&#039;ll eat.&amp;quot; The table was spread, and they sat to eat. Christ blessed the bread. It was enough - more than enough for those present!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i la xrist. ba cpacu loi vanju mu&#039;i lenu pinxe kei gi&#039;e te preti fo ko&#039;a fe lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu la xrist. dunda dakau ko&#039;a =.i lei tadni cu cusku ®lu dunda tu&#039;a .!e&#039;usai le cevzda li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ku&#039;i ko&#039;a cusku fi la xrist. fe ®lu mi ponse lo plisytricu noi se klama zo&#039;e ja&#039;e lenu citka lei plise =.iseki&#039;ubo mi djica lenu ro klama .!i&#039;anai be le tricu cu se lasna fi ri li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. cusku ®lu ledo seldji ca&#039;a !do&#039;a mansa li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. ba cpacu le remoi kabri =.i cusku ®lu do djica lenu mi dunda ?ma do li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i lei tadni cu cusku fi ko&#039;a fe ®lu ko bacru .!e&#039;ucai ®lu dunda tu&#039;a le cevzda li&#039;u¯ li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .!ai na&#039;e go&#039;i =.i mi djica lenu mi jinga fo ro nu mi&#039;a kelci loi kelkarda li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. cusku ®lu ledo seldji ca&#039;a !do&#039;a mansa li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. ba cpacu le cimoi kabri =.i ®lu do djica lenu mi dunda ?ma do li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a bazi cusku ®lu tu&#039;a le cevzda li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. cusku ®lu ledo seldji ca&#039;a !do&#039;a mansa li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xrist. baza cliva =.i ko&#039;a co&#039;a kelkarda kelci =.i ko&#039;a jinga fi ro kelkansa =.i la xrist. kucyga&#039;a se sfacatra =.ipujecajebabo ko&#039;a kelci .!ue.i&#039;enairu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Christ then took wine to drink, and asked the man what he wanted Christ to give him. The students said &amp;quot;Ask for the kingdom of heaven!&amp;quot; But he said to Christ: &amp;quot;I have an apple tree, which people always come and eat apples from. So I want anyone who goes to the tree to get stuck onto it.&amp;quot; Christ said &amp;quot;As you wish, so it will be done.&amp;quot; Christ took a second cup, and said &amp;quot;What do you want me to give you?&amp;quot; The students told him &amp;quot;Say &#039;Give me the kingdom of heaven!&#039;&amp;quot; He said &amp;quot;No; I want to win every time I play cards.&amp;quot; Christ said &amp;quot;As you wish, so it will be done.&amp;quot; Christ took a third cup. &amp;quot;What do you want me to give you?&amp;quot; He then said &amp;quot;The kingdom of heaven.&amp;quot; Christ said &amp;quot;As you wish, so it will be done.&amp;quot; Christ left, later on, and the man started playing cards. He won over everyone he played with. Christ was crucified, and the man kept on playing!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la xrist. klagau lo notcrida noi cusku fi ko&#039;a fe ®lu la xrist. klagau mi ti mu&#039;i lenu mi lebna do =.i lenu do kelci cu banzu .!u&#039;i =.i lenu do jmive cu sisti .!uo li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .!i&#039;a go&#039;i =.i .!!e&#039;odo&#039;a ko citka su&#039;o plise =.ibabo mi klama li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i le notcrida cu klama mu&#039;i lenu citka kei gi&#039;e se lasna =.i lego&#039;i cu cpesku ®lu ko .!e&#039;ocai klama ja&#039;e lenu to&#039;e lasna mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu mi klama do punaijeca .!ai.u&#039;i .!ionairu&#039;e lenu mi !ga&#039;i djica li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;e di&#039;i kelci =.i ko&#039;a ca lenu mo&#039;u se cinri lenu kelci cu klama le notcrida gi&#039;e cusku ®lu mi ca to&#039;e lasna do gi&#039;e .!i&#039;a klakansa do li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a joi le notcrida cu klama fo le daptutra gi&#039;e viska la xades. noi se kansa pare se jdadapma =.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .!e&#039;u mi&#039;o velji&#039;a kelci =.i .!e&#039;u ge mi te jinga gi&#039;o roroi vi stali gi mi jinga gi&#039;o cpacu leti se jdadapma li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i la xades. zanru =.i ri joi ko&#039;a co&#039;a kelci =.i ko&#039;a ba cusku ®lu li ci pi&#039;i mu du li pamu =.i li pamu su&#039;i pa du li paxa .!u&#039;a =.iseni&#039;ibo .!e&#039;o ko dunda le se jdadapma mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a lebna le se jdadapma gi&#039;e klama le cevzda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Christ sent an angel, who told him &amp;quot;Christ sent me to take you away. You&#039;ve played enough! Your life is over.&amp;quot; He said &amp;quot;Fine. Do go and have some apples. Then I&#039;ll come with you.&amp;quot; The angel went to eat, and got stuck. He begged the man: &amp;quot;Please come and get me off here!&amp;quot; He said &amp;quot;I&#039;ll come to you, but not before I feel like it!&amp;quot;, and kept on playing. When he got bored of playing, he came to the angel and said, &amp;quot;I&#039;ll get you off the tree, and will come along with you now.&amp;quot; They went past Hell, and saw Hades with twelve damned people. He said &amp;quot;I&#039;ll gamble with you! If you win, I stay here forever; if I win, I get these damned people.&amp;quot; Hades approved, and they started playing. He then said &amp;quot;Three by five makes fifteen, plus one makes sixteen! So give me those damned.&amp;quot; He took the damned and went to heaven.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i la xrist. ca lenu ko&#039;a joi le drata cu klama ra cu cusku ®lu mi cpedu lenu do noi pamei cu klama mi =.i do mo&#039;ifa&#039;avi klagau .!ue lo du&#039;emei li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu mi !si&#039;a ca lenu mi do vi&#039;ecpe mu&#039;i lenu mi friti le midydo&#039;i sanmi do cu cpedu lenu do noi pamei cu klama mi =.i do klagau ku&#039;i lo pacimei .!oiro&#039;a =.i mi ne pa&#039;a ca .!o&#039;inai klagau lo pacimei li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=.iseni&#039;ibo!zo&#039;o la xrist. zanru tu&#039;a ropaci klama&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When the man and the others came, Christ said &amp;quot;I asked you, one person, to come to me. You&#039;ve brought too many people here!&amp;quot; He said &amp;quot;And when I invited you to offer you lunch, I asked you, one person, to come to me. But you brought thirteen! So I&#039;m bringing you thirteen too.&amp;quot; ERGO, Christ let all thirteen in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==A Lojban-to-Prolog semantic analyzer==&lt;br /&gt;
by Nick Nicholas&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[For an extended class project related to his Masters degree work in Cognitive Science, Nick Nicholas has undertaken a project in natural language understanding of Lojban. This is a significant undertaking with great potential for Lojban&#039;s credibility given his likely success. Nick and John Cowan contributed ideas to his final project statement, included here. Also included are the reports on preliminary results that Nick has thus far presented.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem I have now is: how do I shoehorn this project, which could go on forever (especially with tanru) into something I can spend at most 80 hours on (and I&#039;d prefer 60)? We will need to decide what domains of the language we&#039;ll have to leave out: this will need to work on a subset of the language. Of course, I could continue work on the project after this semester.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that you should simply not worry about the internal semantics of tanru, or indeed anything about selbri internals except possibly a place-structure-affecting SE [essentially, one that converts the last component of the tanru at whatever level of nesting, the ter(ter(ter...tertau]. Here&#039;s a very sketchy draft of something I wrote once; it actually does stop in the middle of a sentence - I got dragged away to do something else and never went back - that should give some idea of what can be done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Preliminary Notes for A Lojban Canonicalizer Draft 1.0===&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====1. Introductory====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is a predicate language; that is, Lojban utterances are for the most part predications. Tools exist in the computer world to process rules and facts expressed in the form of predications, and to answer queries based on those rules and facts. A well-known example is Prolog. Prolog is isomorphic to a small subset of Lojban, but relatively simple processing techniques would suffice to render a much larger set of Lojban utterances Prolog-compatible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban Canonicalizer (LC) program would manipulate Lojban utterances, previously parsed by the standard Lojban parser, to produce other Lojban utterances belonging to the Prolog-isomorphic subset. The basic techniques employed include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* stripping of metalinguistics&lt;br /&gt;
* argument order standardization &lt;br /&gt;
* semantic transformations &lt;br /&gt;
* expansion of logical connectives&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and others to be defined (or thought of) later. The rest of this document details the techniques above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====2. Stripping of Metalinguistics====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the easiest topic. Lojban allows for a variety of methods for adding metalinguistic comments to mainstream text. There are UI indicators, SEI comments, and TO/TOI parenthetical remarks. All of these can simply be removed from the parsed text. It is forbidden for text at a lower metalinguistic level to refer to text at a higher level, so removal cannot lead to loss of information (although it may lead to loss of context).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 3. Argument Order Standardization ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban predication, or bridi, is delivered by the parser as a predicate, or selbri, preceded and/or followed by &amp;quot;terms&amp;quot;. There are four kinds of terms: arguments, or sumti; tagged sumti, where the tag either specifies which (numerical) argument of the selbri is involved or indicates a &amp;quot;modal&amp;quot; sumti outside the regular argument structure; bare tags with unspecified sumti; and negation boundaries. In addition, there can be a &amp;quot;prenex&amp;quot; which specifies the quantification of bound variable sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Argument order standardization will rearrange every bridi to get the sumti into a fixed order, either x1, x2, x3, ... selbri or x1, selbri, x2, x3 ... A look-up will be done against the dictionary database to determine how many sumti this selbri should have; any missing sumti will be replaced with the Lojban place-filler sumti, &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;. Modal sumti will be moved to the end of the bridi and placed into a canonical order (perhaps alphabetical by tag; the set of tags is potentially unbounded). A prenex will be created with appropriate default quantifications, and all negations will be moved to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 4. Semantic Transformations ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Like other natural languages, Lojban possesses a &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot;, in the sense (without prejudice to any particular linguistic theories) that some utterances with very different grammar &amp;quot;mean the same thing&amp;quot;, with differences of emphasis and the like. The argument-order standardization discussed above involves applying certain transformations which affect sumti. The type discussed here, however, involves the &amp;quot;redundant structures&amp;quot; of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In pursuit of linguistic neutrality, Lojban features certain pervasive schemas of grammatical alternatives. The most pervasive by far is the afterthought vs. forethought opposition. In such structures as possessives, logical and non-logical connectives,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the final draft of my project proposal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Project Proposal for 433-603: A Lojban-to-Prolog semantic analyzer.===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this project, we propose developing a semantic analyzer such that, given a text in a subset of the artificial language Lojban, the analyzer will extract information from the text, store it as Prolog clauses, and be asked simple questions on the text content (the questions and answers will both be in Lojban, rather than explicit Prolog queries/clauses). To make the analyzer useful for non-Lojban speakers, output will also be provided in a pidgin English, and phrase markers to the text syntactic structure may also be displayed, time allowing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is an artificial language intended for human use, of the type exemplified by Esperanto and Interlingua. It differs from most such languages, in that it has been explicitly based on predicate logic. Predicates serve the role of verbs, predicates with preposed determiners serve the role of nouns, and predications serve as sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a number of reasons why this project is of interest. Lojban is a simplified model of a natural language (NL), using predicate logic as its modelling mechanism. Predicate logic also underlies the Prolog into which Lojban text will be transformed by the analyzer. Therefore the task of transferring such information across from Lojban to Prolog will be considerably simpler than doing so for an NL. Lojban has already been shoehorned into a context-free grammar using YACC (this has involved some imaginative use of error recovery, but LALR(1) nature was retained). Thus the task of parsing Lojban text into identifiable grammatical constituencies has already been dealt with: problems in resolving syntactic ambiguity need not distract the analyzer programmer from the more important semantic issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the semantic issues complicating logic-based knowledge representation of NL remain in Lojban: higher-order predicates; metalinguistic comments and attitudinals; the ambiguous semantic relationship between head and modifier in word compounds; the representation of numbers, prepositional phrases, relative clauses, non-logical connectives, negation, tense and modality; the distinction between &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;a&amp;quot; (echoed in the language&#039;s veridical and non-veridical determiners); the distinction between individual and collective plurals; subject-raising; and so forth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In effect, a Lojban-to-Prolog semantic analyzer would be addressing many of the current issues in NLP knowledge representation, though biased towards predicate logic in the way it does so. The use of a simplified model of NL, and the way the model falls short of capturing NL nuances, will help the analyzer cover much ground quickly, and provide insights in similar analysis of NL proper. (It is claimed that the subset of Lojban implemented would fall short; the author believes the language itself, if it acquires a speech community, will match NL adequately in most usages of language). Less attention would need to be paid to syntactic issues than would be the case with NL. Given how Lojban grammar is structured, modular subsets of Lojban grammar can be implemented in stages in the analyzer. This means that results for simple phrases will become available a very short time into the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To keep the project manageable, a subset of the language will have to be considered; this is in line with the Lojban Canonicaliser proposed by John Cowan (see Enclosures. The Canonicaliser will need to be implemented as a preprocessor to what text the analyzer actually sees). Lexically, the subset of Lojban to be implemented will include roughly 500 predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grammatically, the subset is described as follows, to be implemented in incremental, independent stages:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Simple predications with a known predicate, and with arguments without internal structure (Proper names, logical variables). No quantification other than existential; e.g. &amp;quot;mi prami da&amp;quot; - EXISTS X: LOVES(i, X).&lt;br /&gt;
# Non-veridical arguments (cf. English &amp;quot;the&amp;quot;) based on predicates, with internal arguments; e.g. &amp;quot;mi catra le prami be le pulji&amp;quot; - KILLS(i, x) &amp;amp; LOVES(x, y) &amp;amp; POLICE(y): &amp;quot;I kill the lover of the policeman.&amp;quot; Note: strictly speaking, the non-veridical determiner indicates that the entity the speaker has &#039;in mind&#039; is described by the predicate it precedes, but not uniquely specified by it (cf. veridical determiners). Given the absence of pragmatic content at this early stage of the analyzer, making this distinction will be problematic (it is, after all, inherently ambiguous); it will be dealt with here exactly as NLP deals with the &amp;quot;the&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;an&amp;quot; distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
# Veridical arguments (cf. English &amp;quot;an&amp;quot;) based on predicates, with internal arguments. e.g. &amp;quot;mi catra lo prami be lo pulji&amp;quot; - EXISTS X EXISTS Y: KILLS(i, X) &amp;amp; LOVES(X, Y) &amp;amp; POLICE(Y): &amp;quot;I kill a lover of a policeman.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Resolution of logical connectives; e.g. &amp;quot;mi nelci do .e ko&#039;a&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; &amp;quot;mi nelci do .ije mi nelci ko&#039;a&amp;quot; - LIKES(i, you) &amp;amp; LIKES(i, x1): &amp;quot;I like you and him.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Anaphora and cross-indexing. e.g. &amp;quot;le prenu\i cu prami ri\i&amp;quot; - PERSON(x) &amp;amp; LOVES(x, x): &amp;quot;The person loves him/herself.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Restrictive and non-restrictive relative clauses; e.g. &amp;quot;mi nelci le prenu poi do xebni ke&#039;a&amp;quot; - (EXISTS x: HATES(you, x)) &amp;amp; LIKES(i, x) &amp;amp; PERSON(x): &amp;quot;I like the person you hate.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Higher order predicates; e.g. &amp;quot;lenu mi cadzu cu nandu&amp;quot; - DIFFICULT(event: WALKS(i)): &amp;quot;My walking is difficult.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Prepositional phrases (other than tense and location); e.g. &amp;quot;mi naumau do nelci ko&#039;a&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; &amp;quot;mi zmadu do leni da nelci ko&#039;a&amp;quot; - EXCEEDS(i, you, quantity: LIKES(X, x1)): &amp;quot;I like him more than you do.&amp;quot;, e.g. &amp;quot;lo catra ne sepi&#039;o lo mrudakfu&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; &amp;quot;lo catra noi pilno lo mrudakfu&amp;quot; - EXISTS X EXISTS Y: KILLS(X, _) &amp;amp; USES(X, Y, event: KILLS(X, _)) &amp;amp; HAMMER_KNIFE(Y): &amp;quot;an axe-murderer&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=paxx /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Attitudinals; e.g. &amp;quot;mi .ui sidju do&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; &amp;quot;mi sidju do .ije mi gleki mi va&#039;o lenu mi sidju do&amp;quot;: HELP(i, you) &amp;amp; HAPPY(i, i) &amp;amp; CONTEXT((state: HAPPY(i, i), event: HELP(i, you)): &amp;quot;I (smile) will help you; I am happy to help you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Tense (including location), and prepositions of tense (including location). Also includes modality and event contours; e.g. &amp;quot;mi ba&#039;o tavla&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; &amp;quot;lenu mi tavla cu ba&#039;o zei balvi zo&#039;e&amp;quot;: AFTERMATH(event: talk(i, _, _, _), _): &amp;quot;I have spoken.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Masses and sets as arguments; e.g. &amp;quot;loi remna cu sipna&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;the mass of humans sleep&amp;quot; (Though it is not true at any given moment that: FORALL X: HUMAN(X) =&amp;gt; SLEEPS(X))&lt;br /&gt;
# Non-logical connectors. e.g. &amp;quot;la gilbrt. joi la salivn. cu finti la mikadon.&amp;quot; - INVENT(X, mikado) &amp;amp; JOINT_MASS(X, gilbert, sullivan): &amp;quot;G &amp;amp; S (as a joint unit) wrote The Mikado.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# Quantification (including numerical, as well as subjective quantifiers such as &amp;quot;enough&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;most&amp;quot;); e.g. &amp;quot;mu le ze mensi cu cucycau&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;five of the seven sisters are barefoot&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Negation. Contradictory and scalar. Use of prenexes; e.g. &amp;quot;mi naku ro prenu cu prami&amp;quot;: NOT(FORALL X:PERSON(X), LOVES(i,X)); &amp;quot;mi ro prenu na prami&amp;quot;: FORALL X:PERSON(X), NOT(LOVES(i,X))&amp;lt;ref name=rexx /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Vocatives, imperatives, interrogatives, and speech protocol words; e.g. &amp;quot;doi skami la sinderelan. mensi ma fe&#039;o&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;O Computer: Cinderella is sister to whom? (End of transmission).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sections of Lojban Grammar not anticipated to be included in the model:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The mathematical subgrammar of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
# Any analysis of word compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
# Metalinguistic comments.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The detail of coverage of some sections, particularly tense, will probably have to be curtailed due to time constraints. It is anticipated to have this project take at most 80 hours of work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One thing I would suggest is supporting universal quantification as well as existential, since Prolog directly handles universal quantification, whereas existential quantification (except when appearing only in the antecedent of a rule) has to be kludged by skolemization.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On a different note, I think you should consider supporting two additional things: universal quantification a la simple Prolog variables, and imperatives. It would be way cool if a &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; triggered a look-up so that &amp;quot;ko ciska le broda&amp;quot; came out &amp;quot;print(le_broda).&amp;quot; or the like. That way actual Prolog programming in Lojban would be possible! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paxx&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Iain Alexander:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Really picky:) If you really want the &amp;quot;ka mrudakfu pilno&amp;quot; to be part of the &amp;quot;nu catra&amp;quot;, I think it ought to be bound into the selbri with &amp;quot;be&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo catra be sepi&#039;o lo mrudakfu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise it could just as easily be&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo te zgike pesepi&#039;o lo grana&lt;br /&gt;
The musician who uses a stick (for walking)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=rexx&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Iain: mi ro prenu na prami:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I think this is&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
naku zo&#039;u mi ro prenu prami&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
i.e. the same as the previous example. You need&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi ro prenu naku prami&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Progress Report 1===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, ladies and germs, this is what I can get my Lojban-PROLOG processor to do so far:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Input text: }mi nelci le klama be le zarci be le ckafi be&#039;o bei le pulji bei le berti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Parser output, after going through LEX:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
brivla nelci&lt;br /&gt;
brivla klama&lt;br /&gt;
brivla zarci&lt;br /&gt;
brivla ckafi&lt;br /&gt;
brivla pulji&lt;br /&gt;
brivla berti&lt;br /&gt;
end_of_lex_list&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi nelci le klama be le zarci be le ckafi ku beho ku bei le pulji ku bei le berti ku beho ku vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROLOG output&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [q(suho(1), _FIPFN, q(suho(1), _FIREF, q(suho(1), _FISES, ckafi(_FISES, _FISZG, _FISZH, _FISZI, _FISZJ), [], zarci(_FIREF, _FISES, _FITIV, _FITIW, _FITIX)), [], q(suho(1), _FIUAD, pulji(_FIUAD, _FIUUR, _FIUUS, _FIUUT, _FIUUU), [], q(suho(1), _FIVID, berti(_FIVID, _FIWCR, _FIWCS, _FIWCT, _FIWCU), [], klama(_FIPFN, _FIREF, _FIUAD, _FIVID, _FIWRT)))), [], nelci(mi, _FIPFN, _FIPFO, _FIPFP, _FIPFQ))]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Branched quantifiers:&lt;br /&gt;
E X : broda(X) ; brode(X) =&amp;gt; su&#039;o broda ku poi brode&lt;br /&gt;
There exists a broda, which brode&#039;s, such that...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(These are preferred in Linguistics to the normal plain &amp;quot;E X&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
q(E,X,A(X),B(X),C(X)) = (E X: broda(X) ; brode(X)) (C(X))&lt;br /&gt;
There exists an A, which Bs, such that C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
E X:&lt;br /&gt;
   E Y:&lt;br /&gt;
      E Z: ckafi(Z); [] (zarci(Y,Z))&lt;br /&gt;
      ; [] (&lt;br /&gt;
            E W: pulji(W)&lt;br /&gt;
            ; [] (&lt;br /&gt;
                  E V: berti(V)&lt;br /&gt;
                  ; [] (klama(X,Y,W,V))&lt;br /&gt;
                  )&lt;br /&gt;
            )&lt;br /&gt;
   ; [] (nelci(mi,X))&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Progress Report 2:  Further Lojban-&amp;gt;Prolog:  relative clauses===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the moment, if &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; isn&#039;t there, it isn&#039;t assumed; it&#039;s pretty certain that, if I don&#039;t find &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; there, I&#039;ll shove it into the first free place in the relative clause predication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve gotten numbers working too, but that&#039;s not that spectacular.  I&#039;m about to implement the &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;le&amp;quot; distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi prami le prenu ku poi ke&#039;a citka le cakla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
brivla prami&lt;br /&gt;
brivla prenu&lt;br /&gt;
brivla citka&lt;br /&gt;
brivla cakla&lt;br /&gt;
end_of_lex_list&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi prami le prenu ku poi keha citka le cakla ku vau kuho&lt;br /&gt;
 vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [q(suho(1), _FIODG, prenu(_FIODG, _FIPZL, _FIPZM, _FIPZN, _FIPZO), q(suho(1), _FIRXG, cakla(_FIRXG, _FITTL, _FITTM, _FITTN, _FITTO), [], citka(_FIODG, _FIRXG, _FIRXH, _FIRXI, _FIRXJ)), prami(mi, _FIODG, _FIODH, _FIODI, _FIODJ))]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
E X:&lt;br /&gt;
     prenu(X);&lt;br /&gt;
     (E Y:&lt;br /&gt;
          cakla(Y); [] (citka(X,Y))&lt;br /&gt;
     (prami(mi,X))&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Progress Report 3:  Lojban-&amp;gt;Prolog:  conjunctions ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi .e ko&#039;a cu prami ro lo nanmu gi&#039;e xebni ro lo ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note:  c(C,X,Y) means C(X,Y), where C is some binary conjunction.  Here it is &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;, meaning AND.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [c(e, q(la, mi, [], [], c(e, q(ro, _FIPVD, nanmu(_FIPVD, _FIRSQ, _FIRSR, _FIRSS, _FIRST), [], prami(mi, _FIPVD, _FIPVE, _FIPVF, _FIPVG)), q(ro, _FISRZ, ninmu(_FISRZ, _FIUPM, _FIUPN, _FIUPO, _FIUPP), [], xebni(mi, _FISRZ, _FISSA, _FISSB, _FISSC)))), q(la, koha, [], [], c(e, q(ro, _FIPVD, nanmu(_FIPVD, _FIRSQ, _FIRSR, _FIRSS, _FIRST), [], prami(koha, _FIPVD, _FIPVE, _FIPVF, _FIPVG)), q(ro, _FISRZ, ninmu(_FISRZ, _FIUPM, _FIUPN, _FIUPO, _FIUPP), [], xebni(koha, _FISRZ, _FISSA, _FISSB, _FISSC)))))]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
AND(&lt;br /&gt;
     AND(&lt;br /&gt;
         All x (man x) loves(mi,x) ,&lt;br /&gt;
         All y (woman y) hates(mi,x)),&lt;br /&gt;
     AND(&lt;br /&gt;
         All x (man x) loves(koha,x) ,&lt;br /&gt;
         All y (woman y) hates(koha,y))).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that I&#039;m using iota quantification for names and anaphors; this is left in for ease of anaphor resolution later, and can be stripped out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Progress Report 4:  Prolog:  event abstractions===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci lenu ko&#039;a banli ro lo xelso ku poi ke&#039;a prami le gugde kei ku poi ke&#039;a cafne .e la kserkes. gi&#039;e zutse le stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Takes 16 seconds to parse).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
c(e,&lt;br /&gt;
   c(e,&lt;br /&gt;
     q(suho(1), _FJKVW,&lt;br /&gt;
       nu(_FJKVW,&lt;br /&gt;
          q(ro, _FJLAZ,&lt;br /&gt;
            xelso(_FJLAZ, _FJLGI, _FJLGJ, _FJLGK, _FJLGL),&lt;br /&gt;
            q(suho(1), _FJLKF,&lt;br /&gt;
              gugde(_FJLKF, _FJLPO, _FJLPP, _FJLPQ, _FJLPR), [],&lt;br /&gt;
              prami(_FJLAZ, _FJLKF, _FJLKG, _FJLKH, _FJLKI)&lt;br /&gt;
             ),&lt;br /&gt;
            banli(koha, _FJLAZ, _FJLBA, _FJLBB, _FJLBC)&lt;br /&gt;
           ),&lt;br /&gt;
          _FJLSS, _FJLST, _FJLSU),&lt;br /&gt;
        cafne(_FJKVW, _FJLWO, _FJLWP, _FJLWQ, _FJLWR),&lt;br /&gt;
        nelci(mi, _FJKVW, _FJKUU, _FJKUV, _FJKUW)&lt;br /&gt;
      ),&lt;br /&gt;
     nelci(mi, [kserkses], _FJKUU, _FJKUV, _FJKUW)&lt;br /&gt;
    ),&lt;br /&gt;
   q(suho(1), _FJMDN,&lt;br /&gt;
     stizu(_FJMDN, _FJMID, _FJMIE, _FJMIF, _FJMIG), [],&lt;br /&gt;
     zutse(mi, _FJMDN, _FJMDO, _FJMDP, _FJMDQ)&lt;br /&gt;
    )&lt;br /&gt;
  )&lt;br /&gt;
AND(&lt;br /&gt;
     AND(&lt;br /&gt;
         {E X&lt;br /&gt;
           nu(X,&lt;br /&gt;
              A Y&lt;br /&gt;
                xelso(Y):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                {E Z&lt;br /&gt;
                  gugde(Z);&lt;br /&gt;
                  prami(Y,Z)};&lt;br /&gt;
                banli(koha, Y)&lt;br /&gt;
              ):&lt;br /&gt;
            cafne(X);&lt;br /&gt;
            nelci(mi, X)&lt;br /&gt;
         },&lt;br /&gt;
         nelci(mi, [kserkses])&lt;br /&gt;
        ),&lt;br /&gt;
     E W:stizu(W);zutse(mi,W)&lt;br /&gt;
    )&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Enclosures==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===LOJBAN MACHINE GRAMMAR, E-BNF VERSION, dated 12 June 1993===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2nd baseline as of 23 June 1991, which is original baseline 20 July 1990 incorporating technical fixes 1-28.  This version includes change proposals 1-32 to that baseline, excluding changes 21 and 28 which are assumed annulled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Prepared by The Logical Language Group, Inc.  2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA  lojbab@grebyn.com  703-385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                     &lt;br /&gt;
In accordance with the Logical Language Group, Inc. policy, this material constitutes Lojban language definition materials and is hereby placed irrevocably in the public domain.  Signed:  Robert LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We request the following when this material is used in derived works: state that derivation and that the material baseline is preliminary, and provide the name and address of the Logical Language Group, Inc. as a source of further bonafide information about the material and about Lojban.  We ask that all users of this material verify to ensure that they are using the latest material.  Barring unexpected major problems there will be no change to this material prior to completion of the Lojban dictionary later in 1993, whereupon a 3rd baseline will declared.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Explanation of notation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rules have the form:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 name&amp;lt;number&amp;gt; = bnf-expression&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which means that the grammatical construct &amp;quot;name&amp;quot; is defined by &amp;quot;bnf-expression&amp;quot;.  The number cross-references this grammar with the rule numbers in the YACC grammar.  The names are the same as those in the YACC grammar, except that subrules are labeled with A, B, C, ... in the YACC grammar and with 1, 2, 3, ... in this grammar.  In addition, rule 971 is &amp;quot;simple_tag&amp;quot; in the YACC grammar but &amp;quot;stag&amp;quot; in this grammar, because of its frequent appearance, and rule 32 is &amp;quot;free_modifier&amp;quot; in the YACC grammar but &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; in this grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Conventions:&lt;br /&gt;
# Names in lower case are grammatical constructs.&lt;br /&gt;
# Names in UPPER CASE are selma&#039;o (lexeme) names, and are terminals (i.e. they have no internal grammar, but are replaced by any of the Lojban words in that &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Concatenation is expressed by juxtaposition with no operator symbol.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;|&amp;quot; represents alternation (choice).&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;[]&amp;quot; represents an optional element.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;&amp;amp;&amp;quot; represents and/or (&amp;quot;A &amp;amp; B&amp;quot; is the same as &amp;quot;A | B | A B&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;...&amp;quot; represents optional repetition of the construct to the left.  Left-grouping is implied; right-grouping is shown by explicit self-referential recursion with no &amp;quot;...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;()&amp;quot; serves to indicate the grouping of the other operators.  Otherwise, &amp;quot;...&amp;quot; binds closer than &amp;amp;, which binds closer than |.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;#&amp;quot; is shorthand for &amp;quot;[free ...]&amp;quot;, a construct which appears in many places.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;//&amp;quot; encloses an elidable terminator, which may be omitted (without change of meaning) if no grammatical ambiguity results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
text&amp;lt;0&amp;gt;  =   [NAI] [(CMENE ... #) | (indicators &amp;amp; free ...)] [joik-jek] text-1&lt;br /&gt;
text-1&amp;lt;2&amp;gt;  =   [(I [jek | joik] [[stag] BO] #) ... | NIhO ... # ] paragraphs&lt;br /&gt;
paragraphs&amp;lt;4&amp;gt;  =   paragraph [NIhO ... # paragraphs]&lt;br /&gt;
paragraph&amp;lt;10&amp;gt;  =   paragraph-1 [I [jek | joik] # [paragraph-1] ...&lt;br /&gt;
paragraph-1&amp;lt;11&amp;gt;  =   paragraph-2 [I [jek | joik] [stag] BO # paragraph-1]&lt;br /&gt;
paragraph-2&amp;lt;12&amp;gt;  =   utterance | [prenex | tag] TUhE # text-1 /TUhU#/&lt;br /&gt;
utterance&amp;lt;20&amp;gt;  =   ek # | gihek # | quantifier | NA | term ... /VAU#/ | prenex | relative-clauses | links | linkargs | sentence&lt;br /&gt;
prenex&amp;lt;30&amp;gt;  =   term ... ZOhU #&lt;br /&gt;
sentence&amp;lt;40&amp;gt;  =   bridi-tail | sentence-1&lt;br /&gt;
sentence-1&amp;lt;41&amp;gt;  =   term ... [CU #] bridi-tail | gek sentence-1 gik sentence | prenex sentence&lt;br /&gt;
bridi-tail&amp;lt;50&amp;gt;  =   bridi-tail-1 [gihek [stag] KE # bridi-tail /KEhE#/ tail-terms] ...&lt;br /&gt;
bridi-tail-1&amp;lt;51&amp;gt;  =   bridi-tail-2 [gihek # bridi-tail-2 tail-terms] ...&lt;br /&gt;
bridi-tail-2&amp;lt;52&amp;gt;  =   bridi-tail-3 [gihek [stag] BO # bridi-tail-2 tail-terms]&lt;br /&gt;
bridi-tail-3&amp;lt;53&amp;gt;  =   selbri tail-terms | gek-bridi-tail&lt;br /&gt;
gek-bridi-tail&amp;lt;54&amp;gt;  =   gek bridi-tail gik bridi-tail-3 | tag KE gek-bridi-tail /KEhE#/ | NA # gek-bridi-tail&lt;br /&gt;
tail-terms&amp;lt;71&amp;gt;  =   [term ...] /VAU#/&lt;br /&gt;
term&amp;lt;81&amp;gt;  =   sumti | (tag | FA #) (sumti | /KU#/) | termset | NA KU #&lt;br /&gt;
termset&amp;lt;83&amp;gt;  =   NUhI gek term ... /NUhU#/ gik term ... /NUhU#/ | NUhI term ... /NUhU#/ joik-ek # term ... /NUhU#/&lt;br /&gt;
sumti&amp;lt;90&amp;gt;  =   sumti-1 [(ek | joik) [stag] KE # sumti /KEhE#/] ...&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-1&amp;lt;91&amp;gt;  =   sumti-2 [joik-ek sumti-2] ...&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-2&amp;lt;91&amp;gt;  =   sumti-3 [(ek | joik) [stag] BO # sumti-2]&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-3&amp;lt;93&amp;gt;  =   sumti-4 | gek sumti gik sumti-3&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-4&amp;lt;94&amp;gt;  =   [quantifier] sumti-5 [relative-clauses] | quantifier selbri /KU#/ [relative-clauses]&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-5&amp;lt;96&amp;gt;  =   (LAhE # | NAhE BO #) [relative-clauses] sumti /LUhU#/ | KOhA # | lerfu-string /BOI#/ | LA CMENE ... # | (LA | LE) sumti-tail /KU#/ | LI mex /LOhO#/ | ZO any-word # | LU text /LIhU/ # | LOhU any-word ... LEhU # | ZOI any-word anything any-word #&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-tail&amp;lt;111&amp;gt;  =   [sumti-5 [relative-clauses]] sumti-tail-1 | relative-clauses sumti-tail-1&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-tail-1&amp;lt;112&amp;gt;  =   [quantifier] selbri [relative-clauses] | quantifier sumti&lt;br /&gt;
relative-clauses&amp;lt;121&amp;gt;  =   relative-clause [ZIhE relative-clause] ...&lt;br /&gt;
relative-clause&amp;lt;122&amp;gt;  =   GOI term /GEhU#/ | NOI sentence /KUhO#/&lt;br /&gt;
selbri&amp;lt;130&amp;gt;  =   [tag] selbri-1&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-1&amp;lt;131&amp;gt;  =   selbri-2 | NA selbri&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-2&amp;lt;132&amp;gt;  =   selbri-3 [CO # selbri-2]&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-3&amp;lt;133&amp;gt;  =   selbri-4 ...&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-4&amp;lt;134&amp;gt;  =   selbri-5 [joik-jek selbri-5] ...&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-5&amp;lt;135&amp;gt;  =   selbri-6 [(jek | joik) BO # selbri-5]&lt;br /&gt;
selbri-6&amp;lt;136&amp;gt;  =   tanru-unit [BO selbri-6] | [NAhE #] guhek selbri gik selbri-6&lt;br /&gt;
tanru-unit&amp;lt;150&amp;gt;  =   tanru-unit-1 [CEI # tanru-unit-1] ...&lt;br /&gt;
tanru-unit-1&amp;lt;151&amp;gt;  =   tanru-unit-2 [linkargs]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru-unit-2&amp;lt;152&amp;gt;  =   BRIVLA # | GOhA [RAhO] # | KE selbri-3 /KEhE#/ | ME sumti /MEhU#/ [MOI] # | (number | lerfu-string) MOI # | NUhA mex-operator | SE # tanru-unit-2 | JAI [tag] tanru-unit-2 | any-word (ZEI any-word) ... | NAhE # tanru-unit-2 | NU [NAI] # [joik-jek NU [NAI] #] ... sentence /KEI#/&lt;br /&gt;
linkargs&amp;lt;160&amp;gt;  =   BE term [links] /BEhO#/&lt;br /&gt;
links&amp;lt;161&amp;gt;  =   BEI term [links]&lt;br /&gt;
quantifier&amp;lt;300&amp;gt;  =   number /BOI#/ | VEI mex /VEhO#/&lt;br /&gt;
mex&amp;lt;310&amp;gt;  =   mex-1 [operator mex-1] ... | FUhA rp-expression&lt;br /&gt;
mex-1&amp;lt;311&amp;gt;  =   mex-2 [BO operator mex-1]&lt;br /&gt;
mex-2&amp;lt;312&amp;gt;  =   operand | [PEhO] operator mex-2 ... /KUhE#/&lt;br /&gt;
rp-expression&amp;lt;330&amp;gt;  =   rp-operand rp-operand operator&lt;br /&gt;
rp-operand&amp;lt;332&amp;gt;  =   operand | rp-expression&lt;br /&gt;
operator&amp;lt;370&amp;gt;  =   operator-1 [joik-jek operator-1] ...&lt;br /&gt;
operator-1&amp;lt;371&amp;gt;  =   operator-2 | guhek operator-1 gik operator-2&lt;br /&gt;
operator-2&amp;lt;372&amp;gt;  =   mex-operator # | KE operator /KEhE#/&lt;br /&gt;
mex-operator&amp;lt;374&amp;gt;  =   SE # mex-operator | NAhE # mex-operator MAhO mex /TEhU#/ | NAhU selbri /TEhU#/ | VUhU&lt;br /&gt;
operand&amp;lt;380&amp;gt;  =   operand-1 [(ek | joik) [stag] KE # operand /KEhE#/] ...&lt;br /&gt;
operand-1&amp;lt;382&amp;gt;  =   operand-2 [joik-ek operand-2] ...&lt;br /&gt;
operand-2&amp;lt;383&amp;gt;  =   operand-3 [(ek | joik) [stag] BO # operand-2]&lt;br /&gt;
operand-3&amp;lt;385&amp;gt;  =   quantifier | lerfu-string /BOI#/ | NIhE selbri /TEhU#/ | MOhE sumti /TEhU#/ | JOhI mex-2 ... /TEhU#/ | gek operand gik operand-3 | (LAhE # | NAhE BO #) operand /LUhU#/&lt;br /&gt;
number&amp;lt;812&amp;gt;  =   PA [PA | lerfu-word] ...&lt;br /&gt;
lerfu-string&amp;lt;817&amp;gt;  =   lerfu-word [PA | lerfu-word] ...&lt;br /&gt;
lerfu-word&amp;lt;987&amp;gt;  =   BY | any-word BU | LAU lerfu-word | TEI lerfu-string FOI&lt;br /&gt;
ek&amp;lt;802&amp;gt;  =   [NA] [SE] A [NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
gihek&amp;lt;818&amp;gt;  =   [NA] [SE] GIhA [NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
jek&amp;lt;805&amp;gt;  =   [NA] [SE] JA [NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
joik&amp;lt;806&amp;gt;  =   [SE] JOI [NAI] | interval | GAhO interval GAhO&lt;br /&gt;
interval&amp;lt;932&amp;gt;  =   [SE] BIhI [NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
joik-ek&amp;lt;421&amp;gt;  =   joik # | ek #&lt;br /&gt;
joik-jek&amp;lt;422&amp;gt;  =   joik # | jek #&lt;br /&gt;
gek&amp;lt;807)  =   [SE] GA [NAI] # | joik GI # | stag gik #&lt;br /&gt;
guhek&amp;lt;808&amp;gt;  =   [SE] GUhA [NAI] #&lt;br /&gt;
gik&amp;lt;816&amp;gt;  =   GI [NAI] #&lt;br /&gt;
tag&amp;lt;491&amp;gt;  =   tense-modal [joik-jek tense-modal] ...&lt;br /&gt;
stag&amp;lt;971&amp;gt;  =   simple-tense-modal [(jek | joik) simple-tense-modal] ...&lt;br /&gt;
tense-modal&amp;lt;815&amp;gt;  =   simple-tense-modal # | FIhO selbri /FEhU#/&lt;br /&gt;
simple-tense-modal&amp;lt;972&amp;gt;  =   [NAhE] [SE] BAI [NAI] [KI] | [NAhE] time &amp;amp; space &amp;amp; CAhA [KI] | KI | CUhE&lt;br /&gt;
time&amp;lt;1030&amp;gt;  =   ZI &amp;amp; time-offset ... &amp;amp; ZEhA [PU [NAI]] &amp;amp; interval-modifier&lt;br /&gt;
time-offset&amp;lt;1033&amp;gt;  =   PU [NAI] [ZI]&lt;br /&gt;
space&amp;lt;1040&amp;gt;  =   VA &amp;amp; space-offset ... &amp;amp; space-interval &amp;amp; (MOhI space-offset)&lt;br /&gt;
space-offset&amp;lt;1045&amp;gt;  =   FAhA [NAI] [VA]&lt;br /&gt;
space-interval&amp;lt;1046&amp;gt;  =   ((VEhA &amp;amp; VIhA) [FAhA [NAI]]) &amp;amp; FEhE interval-modifier&lt;br /&gt;
interval-modifier&amp;lt;1050&amp;gt;  =   interval-property &amp;amp; ZAhO&lt;br /&gt;
interval-property&amp;lt;1051&amp;gt;  =   number ROI [NAI] | TAhE [NAI]&lt;br /&gt;
free&amp;lt;32&amp;gt;  =   SEI # [term ... [CU #]] selbri /SEhU/ | SOI sumti [sumti] /SEhU/ | vocative selbri [relative-clauses] /DOhU/ | vocative relative-clauses sumti-tail-1 /DOhU/ | vocative CMENE ... # [relative-clauses] /DOhU/ | vocative [sumti] /DOhU/ | (number | lerfu-string) MAI | TO text /TOI/ | XI number /BOI/ | XI lerfu-string /BOI/ | XI VEI mex /VEhO/&lt;br /&gt;
vocative&amp;lt;415&amp;gt;  =   (COI [NAI]) ... &amp;amp; DOI&lt;br /&gt;
indicators&amp;lt;411&amp;gt;  =   [FUhE] indicator ...&lt;br /&gt;
indicator&amp;lt;413&amp;gt;  =    (UI | CAI) [NAI] | Y | POhA | DAhO | FUhO&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following rules are non-formal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
word&amp;lt;1100&amp;gt;  =   [BAhE | PEhA] any-word [indicators]&lt;br /&gt;
any-word  =   &amp;quot;any single word (no compound cmavo)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
anything  =   &amp;quot;any text at all, whether Lojban or not&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
null&amp;lt;1101&amp;gt;  =   any-word SI | utterance SA | text SU FAhO is a universal terminator and signals the end of parsable input.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 06/01/93 Lojban baseline rafsi list ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc., &lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
703-385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
email:  lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In accordance with the Logical Language Group, Inc. policy, this material constitutes Lojban language definition materials and is hereby placed irrevocably in the public domain.  Signed:  Robert LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We request the following when this material is used in derived works: state that derivation and that the material baseline is preliminary, and provide the name and address of the Logical Language Group, Inc. as a source of further bonafide information about the material and about Lojban.  We ask that all users of this material verify to ensure that they are using the latest material.  Barring unexpected major problems there will be no change to this material prior to completion of the Lojban dictionary later in 1993, whereupon a 3rd baseline will declared.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Lojban lujvo-MAKING ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Long-form rafsi for gismu are derived directly from the gismu-form: the gismu itself for final position, and the gismu with final vowel replaced by &#039;y&#039; for non-final position; cmavo have no long-form rafsi.  As you will note below, many gismu have no short-form rafsi and must use the long forms in both initial and final positions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short form rafsi are derived from a limited set of possibilities:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
C1V1C2C3V2 gismu have&amp;lt;ref name=paxxx /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     CVC forms from  C1V1C2 or C1V1C3&lt;br /&gt;
     CVV forms from  C1V1V2 (C1V1&#039;V2)&lt;br /&gt;
     CCV forms from  C2C3V2 or rarely C1C2V1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
C1C2V1C3V2 gismu have&lt;br /&gt;
     CVC forms from  C1V1C3 or C2V1C3&lt;br /&gt;
     CVV forms from  C1V1V2 (C1V1&#039;V2) or C2V1V2 (C2V1&#039;V2)&lt;br /&gt;
     CCV forms from  C1C2V1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Any cmavo or other word may be incorporated into a lujvo independently of the rafsi system using the cmavo &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;: &#039;any-word&#039; zei &#039;any-word&#039; forms a brivla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. All forms of lujvo built out of exactly the same component words/rafsi have identical meanings.  There is no stigma attached to use of long forms, which can be especially useful when your audience is not familiar with the rafsi, and is not likely to be looking up words in a word-list.  Long-forms also may be preferred to guessing when you are too lazy to use a list yourself, and you suspect that your audience will be using one - there is nothing like trying to interpret a lujvo when the unambiguously resolved components resolve into something totally strange.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The rules for building lujvo-forms are fairly simple.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Rules for Lojban word forms - The lujvo must be formed according to Lojban&#039;s word-formation rules.  The constraints of Lojban word forms forbid any lujvo from ending in a consonant, so that words most commonly found in the final position of a tanru have been prioritized to have a rafsi that ends in a vowel.  However, words found in initial positions often form better sounding combinations if their rafsi end in a consonant.  (Also, because we usually recognize words by the consonants in them rather than the vowels, the rafsi of form CVV and CV&#039;V are harder to memorize.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Certain sounds are forbidden to occur next to each other (so-called &#039;impermissible medial&#039; consonants), and must be separated by a &#039;hyphen&#039;- sound, the &amp;quot;uh&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;sofa&amp;quot;, represented in Lojban by the letter &#039;y&#039; (this letter is found only as a hyphen, in lerfu, the words for letters of the alphabet, and along to represent the hesitation noise. It is thus not normally considered a &#039;V&#039; is the C/V convention scheme. Indeed, &amp;quot;CyC&amp;quot; is considered a consonant cluster in Lojban morphology, albeit a hyphenated one).  In addition, a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi at the beginning of any lujvo must either carry the penultimate stress, it must be &#039;glued&#039; to the remaining rafsi with a syllabic &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; sound, or the rafsi falls off into a separate word, a cmavo.  (In addition, a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi followed by another CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi in a 2-term lujvo must have the &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; added, or the consonant cluster mandatory in any brivla in not present, and the rafsi break up into two separate cmavo.)&lt;br /&gt;
* Multiple rafsi to choose from - Because of these rules, there is usually more than one rafsi usable for each gismu.  The one to be used is simply whichever sounds best to the speaker/writer.  There are many valid combinations of the possible rafsi.  Any rafsi for a given word is equally valid in place of another, and all mean the same thing.  There is an optional scoring component to the lujvo-making algorithm which attempts to systematically pick the &#039;best&#039; one; this algorithm tries for short forms and tends to push more vowels into the words to make them easier to say.  The Japanese, Chinese, and Polynesian speakers will prefer this; Russians have a different aesthetic, since they are used to saying consonant clusters.  But these are not necessarily the criteria you will wish to use.&lt;br /&gt;
* lujvo have ONE meaning - While a tanru is ambiguous, having several possible meanings, a lujvo (one that would be put into the dictionary) has one meaning.  Just like gismu, a lujvo is a predicate which encompasses one area of the semantic universe, with one set of places.  Hopefully this is the most &#039;useful&#039; or &#039;logical&#039; of the possible semantic spaces.  A known source of linguistic drift in Lojban will be as Lojbanic society evolves, and the concept represented by a sequence of rafsi that is most &#039;useful&#039; or &#039;logical&#039; changes.  At that time, it might be decided that we want to redefine the lujvo to assume the new meaning. lujvo must not be allowed to retain two meanings.  So those that maintain the dictionary will be ever watchful of tanru and lujvo usage to ensure this standard is kept.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;One should try to be aware of the possibility of prior meanings of a new lujvo, especially if you are writing for &#039;posterity&#039;.  If a lujvo is invented which involves the same tanru as one that is in the dictionary, and is assigned a different meaning (including a different place structure), linguistic drift results.  This isn&#039;t necessarily bad; it happens in every natural language.  You communicate quite well in English even though you don&#039;t know most words in the dictionary, and in spite of the fact that you use some words in ways not found in the dictionary.  Whenever you use a meaning different from the dictionary definition, you risk a reader/listener using the dictionary and therefore misunderstanding you.  One major reason for having a standard lujvo scoring algorithm is that with several possible rafsi choices to consider, a dictionary is most efficient by putting the definition under the single most preferred form.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You may optionally mark a nonce word that you create without checking a dictionary by preceding it with &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot;.  &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot; simply tells the listener that the word is a nonce word, and may not agree with a dictionary entry for that sequence of rafsi.  The essential nature of human communication is that if the listener understands, then all is well.  Let this be the ultimate guideline for choosing meanings and place structures for invented lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
* Zipf&#039;s law and lujvo - This complication is simple, but is the scariest.  Zipf&#039;s Law (actually a hypothesis), says that the length of words is inversely proportional to their frequency of usage.  The shortest words are those which are used more; the longest ones are used less.  The corollary for Lojban is that commonly used concepts will tend to be abbreviated.  Speakers will choose the shortest form for frequently expressed ideas that gets their meaning across, even at the cost of accuracy in meaning.  In English, we have abbreviations and acronyms and jargon, all of which are words for complex ideas used with high frequency by a group of people.  So they shortened them to convey the often-used information more rapidly.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The jargon-forming interpretation of Zipf&#039;s Law may be a cause of multiple meanings of words in the natural languages, especially of short words.  If true, it threatens the Lojban rule that all lujvo must have one meaning.  The Lojbanist thus resigned accepts a complication in lujvo-making:  A perfectly good and clear tanru may have to be abbreviated when made into a lujvo, if the concept it represents likely will be used so often as to cause Zipf&#039;s Law to take effect.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Thus, given a tanru with grouping markers, abstraction markers, and other cmavo in it to make the tanru syntactically unambiguous, in many cases one drops some of the cmavo to make a shorter (incorrect) tanru, and then uses that one to make the lujvo.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This doesn&#039;t lead to ambiguity, as it might seem.  A given lujvo still has exactly one meaning and place structure.  But now, more than one tanru is competing for the same lujvo.  This is not as difficult to accept or allow for as it might seem:  more than one meaning for a single tanru was already competing for the &#039;right&#039; to be used for the lujvo.  Someone has to use judgement in deciding which one meaning is to be chosen over the others.  This judgement will be made on the basis of usage, presumably by some fairly logical criteria.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If the lujvo made by a shorter form of tanru is already in use, or is likely to be useful for another meaning, the wordmaker then retains one or more of the cmavo, preferably ones that clearly set this meaning apart from the shorter form meaning that is used or anticipated.  In Lojban, therefore, shorter lujvo will be used for a less complicated concept, possibly even over a more frequent word.  If two concepts compete for a single rafsi sequence, the simpler concept will take a shorter form, and the more complex concept will have some indication of its more complex nature added into the word structure.  It is easier to add a cmavo to clarify the meaning of a more complex term than it is to find a good alternate tanru for the simpler term.  &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A good lujvo-composer considers the listener, and a good lujvo interpreter remebers the difficulties of lujvo-making.  If someone hears a word he doesn&#039;t know, decomposes it, and gets a tanru that makes no sense for the context, he knows that the grouping operators may have been dropped out, he may try alternate groupings.  Or he may try using the verb form of the concept instead of the first sumti, inserting an abstraction operator if it seems plausible.  Plausibility is key to learning new ideas, and evaluating unfamiliar lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=paxxx &amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note:  C and V in abbreviations of this sort stand for any Lojban consonant and vowel, respectively.  The apostrophe is the Lojban &amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot;, which is considered neither a consonant nor a vowel.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== SHORT FORM OF THE LUJVO-MAKING ALGORITHM ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rules for the lujvo-making algorithm are stated formally.  This may cause it to appear intimidating to a casual reader, and to seem harder than it really is to use.  The following brief form, is more practical to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Find all rafsi forms for the component words.  5-letter forms can only occur in final position; 4-letter+y form, and CVC short forms can only occur in non-final positions.  Make all possible combinations of the rafsi for the component words, keeping the order of the component words.&lt;br /&gt;
# Between any two impermissible medial consonants (see 5c of the formal algorithm), stick a y.&lt;br /&gt;
# Where there is a consonant triple formed where two rafsi join, if it is impermissible (see 5d of the formal algorithm), stick in a y where they join.&lt;br /&gt;
# If you have a CVV rafsi at the beginning, add in an r hyphen after it.  An n is used instead if the letter after the hyphen is also an r.  However, in a tanru with only 2 parts, do not add a hyphen when the second rafsi is a CCV-form.&lt;br /&gt;
# Always stick in a y hyphen after a 4-letter form, which is the gismu without its final letter.&lt;br /&gt;
# Perform the &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; test.  Starting from the left, look for a sequence of 2-or-more CVC rafsi ending with (the first) hyphen &#039;y&#039;, or one-or-more CVC rafsi followed by an end-of-word CVCCV full word rafsi with a permissible medial as the CC.  If either case occurs, look at each consonant pair, and if all of them are permissible initial consonant pairs, insert a &#039;y&#039; hyphen between the first consonant pair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===THE lujvo-MAKING ALGORITHM===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is the official algorithm for generating Lojban lujvo (complex brivla, or predicate words), given a known tanru (metaphor) and a complete list of gismu (Lojban primitive roots) and their assigned rafsi (affixes).  Note that Lojban does not require use of the optimal, or &amp;quot;best&amp;quot; form of a word.  Poetic usage allows any of the valid word forms created by this algorithm to be used under appropriate circumstances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given an n-term tanru and the instruction to find the highest-scoring lujvo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ol&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt; For all terms except the final term, look up or generate all of the rafsi (3- and 4-letter forms).  Three-letter forms will be of the structure CVC, CCV, CVV, or CV&#039;V (the apostrophe is not counted as a letter in any Lojban rule).  A standard gismu list gives the three-letter rafsi for each gismu and for each cmavo with an assigned rafsi.  You can memorize the list also.  This is not difficult if you use the language much:  the set of possible rafsi for each word is limited, and because almost all possible rafsi have an assigned meaning, the more you know, the easier it is to learn the rest by elimination.&lt;br /&gt;
    &amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Given a CCVCV gismu C1C2V1C3V2, the CVC rafsi, if any, will be C1V1C3 or C2V1C3.  The CVV/CV&#039;V rafsi, if any, will be C1V1(&#039;)V2 or C2V1(&#039;)V2. The CCV rafsi, if any, will be C1C2V1.  Very few gismu have both a CCV and a CVV/CV&#039;V assigned.&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Given a CVCCV gismu C1V1C2C3V2, the CVC rafsi, if any, will be C1V1C2. The CVV/CV&#039;V rafsi, if any, will be C1V1(&#039;)V2.  The CCV rafsi, if any, will be C1C2V2, or rarely, C1C2V1.&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;The rafsi for cmavo is assigned more arbitrarily.  A CVV/CV&#039;V form cmavo will often be its own rafsi, but when this isn&#039;t possible, the final letter is changed.  A single letter, usually an arbitrary consonant, is added to a CV cmavo to make its rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;   &lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;The four-letter rafsi form for any gismu is formed by dropping the final vowel from the gismu (which is then effectively replaced by &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; in the lujvo).&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    &amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;For the final term, look up or generate all of the three-letter rafsi, omitting any CVC-form rafsi since a lujvo cannot end in a consonant.  Then, for this position only, add in the full gismu itself as a &#039;5-letter rafsi&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Since most cmavo with rafsi have CVC rafsi and none has a 5-letter form, few cmavo can occur in the final position of a tanru used as the basis of a lujvo.  cmavo in those positions are rare anyway, the exceptions being PA+MOI numbers.  If a cmavo in any position has no rafsi, then it cannot be incorporated into the lujvo.  Consider rephrasing or using &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot; to form an &#039;any-word&#039; compound.&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Form all of the ordered combinations of these rafsi, one rafsi per corresponding term ordered in the sequence of their corresponding terms.&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Audible &#039;hyphens&#039; may be necessary between some adjacent rafsi to make the word pronouncible, understandable, well-formed, and not prone to breaking up into two-or-more smaller words.  Hyphens are never optional; they are not permitted in-between rafsi unless they are required.  Right-to-left testing is recommended for reasons discussed below:&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    &amp;lt;ol type=&amp;quot;a&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If there are more than two terms, an initial CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi will fall off and be heard as a separate cmavo.  It must therefore be glued on with the letter &#039;r&#039;, which nominally stands in a syllable by itself.  For example sai + zba + ta&#039;u becomes sairzbata&#039;u (syllabized as  sai,r,zba,TA&#039;u).  If the initial rafsi is a CV&#039;V, the &#039;r&#039; may be joined onto the second syllable.  Thus sa&#039;i + zba + ta&#039;u becomes sa&#039;irzbata&#039;u (syllabized as sa,&#039;ir,zba,TA&#039;u).  If the first consonant of the second syllable is an &#039;r&#039;, the gluing &#039;hyphen&#039; must be the letter &#039;n&#039;, instead of &#039;r&#039; because doubled consonants are not permitted in Lojban.  Thus sai + rai + ta&#039;u becomes sainraita&#039;u (syllabized as sai,n,rai,TA&#039;u and NOT sain,rai,TA&#039;u).  &#039;n&#039; is NOT permitted unless the adjacent &#039;r&#039; forces it.&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If there are exactly two terms, and the initial term is a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi AND the final term is a 5-letter rafsi, an &#039;r&#039; hyphen is needed as described above to prevent the initial rafsi from falling off into a separate CVV or CV&#039;V cmavo.  As above, an &#039;n&#039; is used as glue if and only if an &#039;r&#039; cannot be used.  Thus sai + taxfu needs hyphen &#039;r&#039; to become sairtaxfu (sai,r,TAX,fu).  sai + ranji needs hyphen &#039;n&#039; to become sainranji (sai,n,RAN,ji).&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If there are exactly two terms, and the initial term is a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi AND the final term is a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi, an &#039;r&#039; hyphen is needed, because the lujvo is not well-formed, lacking a consonant cluster, and will fall apart into two CVV or CV&#039;V cmavo.  As above, an &#039;n&#039; is used as glue if and only if an &#039;r&#039; cannot be used.  Thus sai + ta&#039;u needs hyphen &#039;r&#039; to become sairta&#039;u (sai,r,TA,&#039;u).  sai + rai needs hyphen &#039;n&#039; to become sainrai (SAI,n,rai).  Note that hyphen in a syllable by itself is not counted in determining penultimate stress.  However, if joined onto a vowel syllable as when ta&#039;u + sai forms ta&#039;ursai, the vowel syllable is counted and is stressed if penultimate (ta,&#039;UR,sai).&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If there are exactly two terms, and the initial term is a CVV or CV&#039;V rafsi AND the final term is a CCV rafsi, no hyphen is needed, because the lujvo is well-formed, having a consonant cluster, and penultimate stress falls on part of the CVV/CV&#039;V rafsi, preventing it from falling off into a separate word.  Thus sai + zba needs no hyphen &#039;r&#039; to form saizba.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Put &#039;y&#039; after any 4-letter rafsi form (e.g. zbasysai).  Do not count a syllable centered on this hyphen in determining penultimate stress.  (e.g. ZBAS,y,sai or ZBA,sy,sai).&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Put &#039;y&#039; at any proscribed C/C joint (impermissible medial consonant pair, e.g. nunynau).  The following are the rules summarizing proscribed medials:&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;padding-left: 2em&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Given that the consonant pair is defined as C1C2, that b, d, g, j, v and z are voiced consonants, c, f, k, p, s, t, and x are unvoiced consonants, and l, m, n, and r are nasal/liquid consonants.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;ol&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;C1 cannot be the same as C2. e.g. &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;*kk&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If C1 is voiced, then C2 must either be voiced or nasal/liquid.  If C1 is unvoiced, then C2 must be either unvoiced or nasal/liquid. &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;*bf&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Both C1 and C2 cannot be among c, j, s, or z. &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;*cs&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;*cx, *kx, *xc, *xk, and *mz are not permitted.&lt;br /&gt;
            &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;/ol&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Do not count a syllable centered on this hyphen in determining penultimate stress.  (e.g.  NUN,y,nau or NU,ny,nau).&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Put y at any proscribed C/CC joint (e.g. nunydji).  The following are the rules for proscribed triples:&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;padding-left: 2em&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;The first two consonants of a consonant triple in a Lojban brivla must be restricted as for permissible medial consonant pairs per the above.  The second pair within the triple must be a permissible initial consonant pair.  Since you cannot get a triple in a lujvo unless the latter two consonants are part of a CCV rafsi, testing the first two consonants per c) is sufficient for this part of the test.  In addition, there are a few triples that meet the above conditions but are still not pronounceable so as to be easily and uniquely resolvable from other combinations.  Hence they are also not permitted, and require a hyphen.  These triples are:&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;n,dj   n,dz   n,tc   n,ts&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Do not count a syllable centered on this hyphen in determining penultimate stress.  (e.g.  NUN,y,dji or NU,ny,dji).&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Test all forms starting with a series of CVC rafsi for &amp;quot;tosmabru failure&amp;quot;, which means that the first CV will fall off into a separate cmavo, leaving the rest a valid lujvo.  (&amp;quot;*tosmabru was a trial word that was found to so break up, and is used as the archetypal example of an invalid lujvo according to this rule.)  This is a tricky rule, but not that common a circumstance, because the CV falls off only if a valid lujvo remains.  The following are a set of simple short cuts to test for and correct all &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; situations.  (The same situation with an apparent le&#039;avla form remaining does not break up simply because such forms are forbidden to le&#039;avla.  This is the so-called &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; rule for le&#039;avla: if you stick a CV cmavo on the front of a le&#039;avla and it forms a valid lujvo, then the le&#039;avla is NOT valid.)&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If a series of rafsi has the pattern &#039;CVC ...  CVC + X&#039; , where no &#039;y&#039; hyphens have been installed between any two of the CVC, there may be a &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; problem.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;ul&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If X is a CVCCV long rafsi with a permissible initial as the consonant cluster, then even a single CVC rafsi on the front requires a &amp;quot;tosmabru test&amp;quot; (as in tos + mabru which would break up into to + smabru).  You are specifically testing here to ensure that the CV on the front does not fall off, leaving a lujvo composed of a series of CCV rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;If X is any rafsi or partial-lujvo that causes a y hyphen to be installed between the previous CVC and itself by one of the above rules, and there are at least two CVC rafsi preceding, you must also test for &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; break up (as in tos + mab + bai which would have added a &#039;y&#039; hyphen between the last two terms, and would break up into to + smabybai, where &amp;quot;smab&amp;quot; is a hypothetical 4-letter rafsi form).  You are testing here to avoid the initial CV falling off to leave a lujvo with a spurious CCVC 4-letter rafsi form just before the X component. NOTE THAT THE RULES DO NOT DEPEND ON THERE ACTUALLY BEING RAFSI THAT WOULD MAKE THE BROKEN UP WORD POSSIBLE (smab- is not the 4-letter form for any gismu currently assigned, but the rules do not presume that the listener knows which rafsi are real - they are based ONLY on the forms if the words.)&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;/ul&amp;gt;&amp;lt;p&amp;gt;The &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; test is:&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;padding-left: 2em&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Examine all the C/C joints between the CVC rafsi, and between the last CVC and the X term.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If the ALL of those C/C joints, as well as the CC in X, if we are dealing with the CVCCV case for X, are &amp;quot;bridged&amp;quot; by permissible initials, listed in Section III or the back of the gismu list, then the trial word will break up into a cmavo and a shorter brivla (&amp;quot;tosmaktu&amp;quot; would thus be valid, unlike &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot;).&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;If any C/C joint is unbridged, i.e., is impermissible as an initial CC, the trial word will not break up.  It has passed the &amp;quot;tosmabru test&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Only the first joint in a trial word needs to be unbridged in order to ensure resolvability.  Thus: Install y as a hyphen at the first bridged joint if the &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; test fails (e.g.  tosymabru).&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;The &#039;lazy Lojbanist&#039; &amp;quot;tosmabru test&amp;quot; is to add a hyphen any time you have a CVC rafsi followed by a CV...  of 5-or-more letters, where the first C/C joint forms a permissible initial.  This is NOT a correct algorithm - it will put in hyphens that are not necessary, thus resulting in words that are technically invalid.  However, for nonce lujvo-making, if an unnecessary hyphen is present, the word can be successfully and unambiguously analyzed.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;On the other hand, if a &amp;quot;tosmabru&amp;quot; hyphen is omitted, the word is likely to be incorrectly analyzed.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
          &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Note that the &#039;tosmabru test&#039; requires all hyphens based on other rules to have been determined before conducting the test.  This is why this step occurs last.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
        &amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    &amp;lt;/ol&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;li&amp;gt;Evaluate all combinations and select the word with the highest score, using some algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
  &amp;lt;/li&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ol&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===SCORING ALGORITHM===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This algorithm was devised by Bob and Nora LeChevalier in 1989.  It is not the only permitted algorithm, but it usually gives a choice that people find preferable.  This is the algorithm encoded in the lujvo-making program sold by la lojbangirz.  The algorithm may be changed in the future.  Note that the algorithm basically encodes a hierarchy of priorities, preferring short words (counting an apostrophe as a half of a letter), then words with fewer hyphens, then words with fewer syllables and/or more vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Values are attached to various properties of the lujvo.  The score is the sum of these values.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Count the number of hyphens (h), including &#039;y&#039;, &#039;r&#039;, or &#039;n&#039;.  &lt;br /&gt;
# Count the number of vowels (v) not including &#039;y&#039;.  &lt;br /&gt;
# Count the number of apostrophes (a).  &lt;br /&gt;
# Count the total number of characters including hyphens and apostrophes (l).  &lt;br /&gt;
# For each rafsi component, find the value in the following list.  Sum this total (r):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          Cvv        (sai)         8&lt;br /&gt;
          CCVC       (zbas)        4&lt;br /&gt;
          CCV        (zba)         7&lt;br /&gt;
          -CCVCV     (-zbasu)      3&lt;br /&gt;
          CV&#039;V       (ta&#039;u)        6&lt;br /&gt;
          CVCC       (sarj)        2&lt;br /&gt;
          CVC        (nun)         5&lt;br /&gt;
          -CVCCV     (-sarji)      1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The score is then 32500 - (1000 * l) + (500 * a) - (100 * h) + (10 * r) + v In case of ties, there is no preference.  This should be rare.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following examples use the rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 CVC = nun CCV = zba Cvv = nau, sai&lt;br /&gt;
 CVCCV = sarji  CCVC- = zbas-  CV&#039;V = ta&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stress is shown explicitly using capitalization in these examples.  Being algorithmic (always penultimate), it does not have to be explicitly shown when these words are actually used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    zba + sai                           ZBAsai&lt;br /&gt;
 32500 - (1000 * 6) + (500 * 0) - (100 * 0) + (10 * 15) + 3 = 26653&lt;br /&gt;
    nun + y + nau                       NUNynau&lt;br /&gt;
 32500 - (1000 * 7) + (500 * 0) - (100 * 1) + (10 * 13) + 3 = 25533&lt;br /&gt;
    sai + r + zba + ta&#039;u                sairzbaTA&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 32500 - (1000 * 11) + (500 * 1) - (100 * 1) + (10 * 21) + 5 = 22115&lt;br /&gt;
    zba + zbas + y + sarji              zbazbasySARji&lt;br /&gt;
 32500 - (1000 * 13) + (500 * 0) - (100 * 1) + (10 * 12) + 4 = 19524&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===rafsi list===&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 gismu                   berti ber          nort  briju bij          offi&lt;br /&gt;
 or                      h                        ce&lt;br /&gt;
 cmavo CVC   CCV    CVV  besna ben          brai  brito rit          Brit&lt;br /&gt;
 English keyword         n                        ish&lt;br /&gt;
                         betfu bef     be&#039;u abdo  broda rod          pred&lt;br /&gt;
 bacru       ba&#039;u   utte men                      icate var 1&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       betri bet          trag  brode       bo&#039;e   pred&lt;br /&gt;
 badna         banana    edy                      icate var 2&lt;br /&gt;
 badri    dri       sad  bevri bev     bei  carr  brodi         predicate&lt;br /&gt;
 bajra baj          run  y                        var 3&lt;br /&gt;
 bakfu baf          bund bi biv        8          brodo         predicate&lt;br /&gt;
 le                      bi&#039;i  biz          unor  var 4&lt;br /&gt;
 bakni bak          bovi dered interval           brodu         predicate&lt;br /&gt;
 ne                      bidju         bead       var 5&lt;br /&gt;
 bakri         chalk     bifce bic          bee   bruna bun     bu&#039;a brot&lt;br /&gt;
 baktu         bucket    bikla bik          whip  her&lt;br /&gt;
 balji         bulb      bilga big          obli  bu bus      bu&#039;i   word&lt;br /&gt;
 balni         balcony   ged                      to lerfu&lt;br /&gt;
 balre       ba&#039;e   blad bilma       bi&#039;a   ill   bu&#039;a  bul          some&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       bilni bil          mili  selbri 1&lt;br /&gt;
 balvi bav          futu tary                     budjo buj     bu&#039;o Budd&lt;br /&gt;
 re                      bindo bid          Indo  hist&lt;br /&gt;
 bancu bac          beyo nesian                   bukpu buk     bu&#039;u clot&lt;br /&gt;
 nd                      binra         insure     h&lt;br /&gt;
 bandu bad          defe binxo bix     bi&#039;o beco  bumru bum          fog&lt;br /&gt;
 nd                      me                       bunda bud          poun&lt;br /&gt;
 banfi         amphibian birje         beer       d&lt;br /&gt;
 bangu ban     bau  lang birka bir          arm   bunre bur     bu&#039;e brow&lt;br /&gt;
 uage                    birti bit          cert  n&lt;br /&gt;
 banli bal     ba&#039;i grea ain                      burcu    bru       brus&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       bisli bis          ice   h&lt;br /&gt;
 banro       ba&#039;o   grow bitmu bim     bi&#039;u wall  burna         embarrass&lt;br /&gt;
 banxa bax          bank blabi lab          whit  ed&lt;br /&gt;
 banzu baz          suff e                        ca&#039;a  caz          actu&lt;br /&gt;
 ice                     blaci         glass      ally is&lt;br /&gt;
 bapli bap     bai  forc blanu    bla       blue  cabna cab          now&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       bliku    bli       bloc  cabra       ca&#039;a   appa&lt;br /&gt;
 barda    bra       big  k                        ratus&lt;br /&gt;
 bargu bag          arch bloti lot   blo    lo&#039;i  cacra         hour&lt;br /&gt;
 barja         bar       boat                     cadzu    dzu       walk&lt;br /&gt;
 barna       ba&#039;a   mark bo bor        short      cafne caf          ofte&lt;br /&gt;
 bartu bar          out  scope link               n&lt;br /&gt;
 basna         emphasize bolci bol     boi  ball  cakla         chocolate&lt;br /&gt;
 basti bas          repl bongu bog     bo&#039;u bone  calku cak          shel&lt;br /&gt;
 ace                     botpi bot     bo&#039;i bott  l&lt;br /&gt;
 batci bat          bite le                       canci         vanish&lt;br /&gt;
 batke         button    boxfo bof     bo&#039;o shee  cando cad          idle&lt;br /&gt;
 bavmi         barley    t                        cange cag          farm&lt;br /&gt;
 baxso         Malay-    boxna bon     bo&#039;a wave  canja caj          exch&lt;br /&gt;
 Indonesian              bradi         enemy      ange&lt;br /&gt;
 bebna beb          fool bratu         hail       canko       ca&#039;o   wind&lt;br /&gt;
 ish                     brazo raz          Braz  ow&lt;br /&gt;
 bemro bem     be&#039;o Nort ilian                    canlu cal     ca&#039;u spac&lt;br /&gt;
 h American              bredi red   bre          e&lt;br /&gt;
 bende bed     be&#039;e crew ready                    canpa    cna       shov&lt;br /&gt;
 bengo beg          Beng bridi    bri       pred  el&lt;br /&gt;
 ali                     icate                    canre can          sand&lt;br /&gt;
 benji bej     be&#039;i tran brife bif     bi&#039;e bree  canti         gut&lt;br /&gt;
 sfer                    ze                       carce         cart&lt;br /&gt;
 bersa bes     be&#039;a son&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 carmi cam     cai  inte ciksi    cki       expl  ckini       ki&#039;i   rela&lt;br /&gt;
 nse                     ain                      ted&lt;br /&gt;
 carna car          turn cilce cic          wild  ckire kir          grat&lt;br /&gt;
 cartu cat          char cilmo cim          mois  eful&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       t                        ckule kul     cu&#039;e scho&lt;br /&gt;
 carvi cav          rain cilre    cli       lear  ol&lt;br /&gt;
 casnu    snu       disc n                        ckunu       ku&#039;u   coni&lt;br /&gt;
 uss                     cilta cil          thre  fer&lt;br /&gt;
 catke       ca&#039;e   shov ad                       cladu       lau    loud&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       cimde         dimension  clani    cla       long&lt;br /&gt;
 catlu    cta       look cimni         infinite   claxu       cau    with&lt;br /&gt;
 catni       ca&#039;i   auth cinba         kiss       out&lt;br /&gt;
 ority                   cindu         oak        clika         mossy&lt;br /&gt;
 catra         kill      cinfo         lion       clira lir          earl&lt;br /&gt;
 caxno cax          shal cinje cij          wrin  y&lt;br /&gt;
 low                     kle                      clite lit          poli&lt;br /&gt;
 ce cec        in a set  cinki         insect     te&lt;br /&gt;
 with                    cinla         thin       cliva liv     li&#039;a leav&lt;br /&gt;
 ce&#039;i  cez          perc cinmo    cni       emot  e&lt;br /&gt;
 ent                     ion                      clupa cup          loop&lt;br /&gt;
 ce&#039;o        ce&#039;o   in a cinri       ci&#039;i   inte  cmaci         mathemati&lt;br /&gt;
 sequence with           resting                  cs&lt;br /&gt;
 cecla cel     ce&#039;a laun cinse cin          sexu  cmalu    cma       smal&lt;br /&gt;
 cher                    al                       l&lt;br /&gt;
 cecmu cem     ce&#039;u comm cinta         paint      cmana       ma&#039;a   moun&lt;br /&gt;
 unity                   cinza         tongs      tain&lt;br /&gt;
 cedra         era       cipni    cpi       bird  cmavo       ma&#039;o   stru&lt;br /&gt;
 cenba    cne       vary cipra cip          test  cture word&lt;br /&gt;
 censa ces          holy cirko    cri       lose  cmene    cme  me&#039;e name&lt;br /&gt;
 centi cen          .01  cirla         cheese     cmila       mi&#039;a   laug&lt;br /&gt;
 cerda ced          heir ciska       ci&#039;a   writ  h&lt;br /&gt;
 cerni cer          morn e                        cmima mim   cmi         &lt;br /&gt;
 ing                     cisma         smile      member&lt;br /&gt;
 certu    cre       expe ciste       ci&#039;e   syst  cmoni    cmo  co&#039;i moan&lt;br /&gt;
 rt                      em                       cnano       na&#039;o   norm&lt;br /&gt;
 cevni cev     cei  god  citka    cti       eat   cnebo neb     ne&#039;o neck&lt;br /&gt;
 cfari    cfa       init citno cit     ci&#039;o youn  cnemu nem     ne&#039;u rewa&lt;br /&gt;
 iate                    g                        rd&lt;br /&gt;
 cfika fik     fi&#039;a fict citri cir          hist  cnici nic          orde&lt;br /&gt;
 ion                     ory                      rly&lt;br /&gt;
 cfila    cfi       flaw citsi         season     cnino nin     ni&#039;o new&lt;br /&gt;
 cfine         wedge     civla civ          lous  cnisa nis          lead&lt;br /&gt;
 cfipu       fi&#039;u   conf e                        cnita nit     ni&#039;a bene&lt;br /&gt;
 using                   cizra ciz          stra  ath&lt;br /&gt;
 ci cib        3         nge                      co col        tanru&lt;br /&gt;
 ciblu    blu       bloo ckabu         rubber     inversion&lt;br /&gt;
 d                       ckafi kaf          coff  co&#039;a        co&#039;a   init&lt;br /&gt;
 cicna         cyan      ee                       iative&lt;br /&gt;
 cidja    dja       food ckaji       kai    qual  co&#039;e  com     co&#039;e unsp&lt;br /&gt;
 cidni cid          knee ity                      ecif bridi&lt;br /&gt;
 cidro    dro       hydr ckana    cka       bed   co&#039;u        co&#039;u   cess&lt;br /&gt;
 ogen                    ckape cap          peri  ative&lt;br /&gt;
 cifnu cif          infa l                        cokcu    cko       soak&lt;br /&gt;
 nt                      ckasu cas          ridi  up&lt;br /&gt;
 cigla cig          glan cule                     condi con   cno    coi  &lt;br /&gt;
 d                       ckeji kej   cke          deep&lt;br /&gt;
 cikna cik          awak ashamed                  cortu cor   cro         &lt;br /&gt;
 e                       ckiku kik          key   pain&lt;br /&gt;
 cikre         repair    ckilu       ci&#039;u   scal  cpacu    cpa       get&lt;br /&gt;
                         e                        cpana         upon&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 cpare par          clim dacru dac          draw  detri det          date&lt;br /&gt;
 b                       er                       dicra dir          inte&lt;br /&gt;
 cpedu    cpe       requ dacti       dai    obje  rrupt&lt;br /&gt;
 est                     ct                       dikca dic          elec&lt;br /&gt;
 cpina         pungent   dadjo daj          Taoi  tric&lt;br /&gt;
 cradi         radio     st                       diklo    klo       loca&lt;br /&gt;
 crane    cra       fron dakfu dak          knif  l&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       e                        dikni dik          regu&lt;br /&gt;
 creka cek          shir dakli         sack       lar&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       damba dab     da&#039;a figh  dilcu         quotient&lt;br /&gt;
 crepu rep          harv t                        dilnu dil          clou&lt;br /&gt;
 est                     damri         drum       d&lt;br /&gt;
 cribe rib          bear dandu dad          hang  dimna dim          fate&lt;br /&gt;
 crida rid          fair danfu daf          answ  dinju dij     di&#039;u buil&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       er                       ding&lt;br /&gt;
 crino       ri&#039;o   gree danlu dal     da&#039;u anim  dinko       di&#039;o   nail&lt;br /&gt;
 n                       al                       dirba dib          dear&lt;br /&gt;
 cripu rip          brid danmo dam          smok  dirce       di&#039;e   radi&lt;br /&gt;
 ge                      e                        ate&lt;br /&gt;
 crisa cis          summ danre       da&#039;e   pres  dirgo dig          drop&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      sure                     dizlo diz   dzi         &lt;br /&gt;
 critu         autumn    dansu         dance      low&lt;br /&gt;
 ctaru         tide      danti dan          proj  djacu jac     jau  wate&lt;br /&gt;
 ctebi teb          lip  ectile                   r&lt;br /&gt;
 cteki tek     ce&#039;i tax  daplu    plu       isla  djedi    dje  dei  full&lt;br /&gt;
 ctile         petroleum nd                       day&lt;br /&gt;
 ctino       ti&#039;o   shad dapma dap          curs  djica    dji       desi&lt;br /&gt;
 ow                      e                        re&lt;br /&gt;
 ctuca    ctu       teac dargu dag          road  djine jin          ring&lt;br /&gt;
 h                       darlu       dau    argu  djuno jun     ju&#039;o know&lt;br /&gt;
 cukla cuk          roun e                        do don      doi    you&lt;br /&gt;
 d                       darno dar     da&#039;o far   donri dor     do&#039;i dayt&lt;br /&gt;
 cukta    cku       book darsi         audacity   ime&lt;br /&gt;
 culno    clu       full darxi dax     da&#039;i hit   dotco dot     do&#039;o Germ&lt;br /&gt;
 cumki cum     cu&#039;i poss daski         pocket     an&lt;br /&gt;
 ible                    dasni das          wear  draci         drama&lt;br /&gt;
 cumla cul          humb daspo    spo       dest  drani    dra       corr&lt;br /&gt;
 le                      roy                      ect&lt;br /&gt;
 cunmi         millet    dasri    sri       ribb  drata dat          othe&lt;br /&gt;
 cunso cun     cu&#039;o rand on                       r&lt;br /&gt;
 om                      datka         duck       drudi rud   dru         &lt;br /&gt;
 cuntu       cu&#039;u   affa datni         data       roof&lt;br /&gt;
 ir                      decti dec          .1    du dub      du&#039;o   same&lt;br /&gt;
 cupra    pra       prod degji deg          fing  identity as&lt;br /&gt;
 uce                     er                       du&#039;u  dum          brid&lt;br /&gt;
 curmi    cru       let  dejni dej          owe   i abstract&lt;br /&gt;
 curnu cur          worm dekpu         gallon     dugri dug          loga&lt;br /&gt;
 curve cuv          pure dekto dek          10    rithm&lt;br /&gt;
 cusku cus   sku         delno del     de&#039;o cand  dukse dus     du&#039;e exce&lt;br /&gt;
 express                 ela                      ss&lt;br /&gt;
 cutci cuc          shoe dembi deb          bean  dukti dut          oppo&lt;br /&gt;
 cutne cut          ches denci den     de&#039;i toot  site&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       h                        dunda dud     du&#039;a give&lt;br /&gt;
 cuxna cux     cu&#039;a choo denmi dem          dens  dunja duj          free&lt;br /&gt;
 se                      e                        ze&lt;br /&gt;
 da dav   dza       some denpa dep     de&#039;a wait  dunku duk     du&#039;u angu&lt;br /&gt;
 thing 1                 dertu der     de&#039;u dirt  ish&lt;br /&gt;
 da&#039;a  daz          all  derxi    dre       heap  dunli dun     du&#039;i equa&lt;br /&gt;
 except                  desku des          shak  l&lt;br /&gt;
                         e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 dunra dur          wint finti fin     fi&#039;i inve  gapru gap          abov&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      nt                       e&lt;br /&gt;
 dzena    dze       elde flalu    fla       law   garna gar          rail&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       flani         flute      gasnu       gau    do&lt;br /&gt;
 dzipo zip     zi&#039;o Anta flecu    fle       flow  gasta gat          stee&lt;br /&gt;
 rctican                 fliba    fli       fail  l&lt;br /&gt;
 facki fak     fa&#039;i disc flira fir          face  genja gej          root&lt;br /&gt;
 over                    fo&#039;a        fo&#039;a   it-6  gento get     ge&#039;o Arge&lt;br /&gt;
 fadni fad          ordi fo&#039;e        fo&#039;e   it-7  ntinian&lt;br /&gt;
 nary                    fo&#039;i        fo&#039;i   it-8  genxu gex          hook&lt;br /&gt;
 fagri fag          fire foldi    flo  foi  fiel  gerku ger     ge&#039;u dog&lt;br /&gt;
 falnu fan          sail d                        gerna gen     ge&#039;a gram&lt;br /&gt;
 famti         aunt or   fonmo fom     fo&#039;o foam  mar&lt;br /&gt;
 uncle                   fonxa fon          tele  gidva gid     gi&#039;a guid&lt;br /&gt;
 fancu         function  phone                    e&lt;br /&gt;
 fange         alien     forca    fro       fork  gigdo gig     gi&#039;o 1E9&lt;br /&gt;
 fanmo fam     fa&#039;o end  fraso fas          Fren  ginka gik          camp&lt;br /&gt;
 fanri         factory   ch                       girzu gir   gri         &lt;br /&gt;
 fanta         prevent   frati    fra       reac  group&lt;br /&gt;
 fanva         translate t                        gismu gim     gi&#039;u root&lt;br /&gt;
 fanza faz          anno fraxu fax          forg  word&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       ive                      glare    gla       hot&lt;br /&gt;
 fapro fap   pro         frica fic          diff  gleki gek     gei  happ&lt;br /&gt;
 oppose                  er                       y&lt;br /&gt;
 farlu fal     fa&#039;u fall friko       fi&#039;o   Afri  gletu let   gle         &lt;br /&gt;
 farna far     fa&#039;a dire can                      copulate&lt;br /&gt;
 ction                   frili fil          easy  glico gic   gli         &lt;br /&gt;
 farvi fav          deve frinu         fraction   English&lt;br /&gt;
 lop                     friti fit          offe  gluta    glu       glov&lt;br /&gt;
 fasnu       fau    even r                        e&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       frumu    fru       frow  gocti goc          1E-&lt;br /&gt;
 fatci fac          fact n                        24&lt;br /&gt;
 fatne fat     fa&#039;e reve fukpi fuk     fu&#039;i copy  gotro got          1E24&lt;br /&gt;
 rse                     fulta ful   flu          gradu       rau    unit&lt;br /&gt;
 fatri       fai    dist float                    grake    gra       gram&lt;br /&gt;
 ribute                  funca fun     fu&#039;a luck  grana       ga&#039;a   rod&lt;br /&gt;
 febvi feb          boil fusra fur          rott  grasu ras          grea&lt;br /&gt;
 femti fem          1E-  en                       se&lt;br /&gt;
 15                      fuzme fuz     fu&#039;e resp  greku rek          fram&lt;br /&gt;
 fendi fed          divi onsible                  e&lt;br /&gt;
 de                      gacri       gai    cove  grusi rus          gray&lt;br /&gt;
 fengu feg     fe&#039;u angr r                        grute rut          frui&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       gadri gad          arti  t&lt;br /&gt;
 fenki fek          craz cle                      gubni gub          publ&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       galfi gaf     ga&#039;i modi  ic&lt;br /&gt;
 fenra fer     fe&#039;a crac fy                       gugde gug     gu&#039;e coun&lt;br /&gt;
 k                       galtu gal     ga&#039;u high  try&lt;br /&gt;
 fenso fen     fe&#039;o sew  galxe         throat     gundi gud          indu&lt;br /&gt;
 fepni fep     fei  cent ganlo       ga&#039;o   clos  stry&lt;br /&gt;
 fepri         lung      ed                       gunka gun     gu&#039;a work&lt;br /&gt;
 ferti    fre       fert ganra gan          broa  gunma gum          join&lt;br /&gt;
 ile                     d                        tly&lt;br /&gt;
 festi fes          wast ganse gas     ga&#039;e sens  gunro gur     gu&#039;o roll&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       e                        gunse         goose&lt;br /&gt;
 fetsi fet     fe&#039;i fema ganti         testicle   gunta gut          atta&lt;br /&gt;
 le                      ganxo gax          anus  ck&lt;br /&gt;
 figre fig          fig  ganzu gaz          orga  gurni    gru       grai&lt;br /&gt;
 filso fis          Pale nize                     n&lt;br /&gt;
 stinian                 gapci gac          gas   guska guk          scra&lt;br /&gt;
 finpe fip     fi&#039;e fish                          pe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 gusni gus     gu&#039;i illu jecta jec     je&#039;a poli  jinsa jis          clea&lt;br /&gt;
 mine                    ty                       n&lt;br /&gt;
 gusta         restauran jeftu jef          week  jinto         well&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       jegvo jeg     je&#039;o Jeho  jinvi jiv     ji&#039;i opin&lt;br /&gt;
 gutci guc          cubi vist                     e&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       jei   jez          trut  jinzi jiz          inna&lt;br /&gt;
 gutra         womb      h abstract               te&lt;br /&gt;
 guzme guz   zme         jelca jel          burn  jipci         chicken&lt;br /&gt;
 melon                   jemna    jme       gem   jipno jip     ji&#039;o tip&lt;br /&gt;
 ja jav        tanru or  jenca jen          shoc  jirna         horn&lt;br /&gt;
 jabre         brake     k                        jisra         juice&lt;br /&gt;
 jadni jad     ja&#039;i ador jendu jed          axle  jitfa jif          fals&lt;br /&gt;
 n                       jenmi jem     jei  army  e&lt;br /&gt;
 jakne         rocket    jerna         earn       jitro    tro       cont&lt;br /&gt;
 jalge jag     ja&#039;e resu jersi       je&#039;i   chas  rol&lt;br /&gt;
 lt                      e                        jivbu         weave&lt;br /&gt;
 jalna         starch    jerxo jex          Alge  jivna    jvi       comp&lt;br /&gt;
 jalra         cockroach rian                     ete&lt;br /&gt;
 jamfu jaf   jma         jesni jes          need  jmaji jaj          gath&lt;br /&gt;
 foot                    le                       er&lt;br /&gt;
 jamna jam          war  jetce       je&#039;e   jet   jmifa         shoal&lt;br /&gt;
 janbe jab          bell jetnu jet     je&#039;u true  jmina min          add&lt;br /&gt;
 janco jan          shou jgalu       ja&#039;u   claw  jmive miv     ji&#039;e live&lt;br /&gt;
 lder                    jganu    jga       angl  jo jov        tanru iff&lt;br /&gt;
 janli jal          coll e                        jo&#039;e  jom          unio&lt;br /&gt;
 ide                     jgari       jai    gras  n&lt;br /&gt;
 jansu jas          dipl p                        jo&#039;u        jo&#039;u   in&lt;br /&gt;
 omat                    jgena    jge       knot  common with&lt;br /&gt;
 janta jat          acco jgina gin          gene  joi   jol     joi  in a&lt;br /&gt;
 unt                     jgira    jgi       prid  mass with&lt;br /&gt;
 jarbu         suburb    e                        jordo jor     jo&#039;o Jord&lt;br /&gt;
 jarco       ja&#039;o   show jgita git          guit  anian&lt;br /&gt;
 jarki jak          narr ar                       jorne jon     jo&#039;e join&lt;br /&gt;
 ow                      jibni    jbi       near  ed&lt;br /&gt;
 jaspu jap          pass jibri jib          job   ju juv        tanru&lt;br /&gt;
 port                    jicla         stir       whether&lt;br /&gt;
 jatna       ja&#039;a   capt jicmu    cmu       basi  jubme jub   jbu         &lt;br /&gt;
 ain                     s                        table&lt;br /&gt;
 javni    jva       rule jijnu jij          intu  judri         address&lt;br /&gt;
 jbama bam          bomb it                       jufra juf     ju&#039;a sent&lt;br /&gt;
 jbari    jba       berr jikca jik          soci  ence&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       alize                    jukni juk          spid&lt;br /&gt;
 jbena    jbe       born jikru         liquor     er&lt;br /&gt;
 jbera jer          borr jilka jil          alka  jukpa jup          cook&lt;br /&gt;
 ow                      li                       julne       ju&#039;e   net&lt;br /&gt;
 jbini bin     bi&#039;i betw jilra         jealous    jundi jud     ju&#039;i atte&lt;br /&gt;
 een                     jimca jic          bran  ntive&lt;br /&gt;
 jdari jar          firm ch                       jungo jug          Chin&lt;br /&gt;
 jdice    jdi       deci jimpe    jmi       unde  ese&lt;br /&gt;
 de                      rstand                   junla jul          cloc&lt;br /&gt;
 jdika         decrease  jimte jit          limi  k&lt;br /&gt;
 jdima       di&#039;a   pric t                        junri jur          seri&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       jinci         shears     ous&lt;br /&gt;
 jdini din     di&#039;i mone jinga jig     ji&#039;a win   junta         weight&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       jinku         vaccine    jurme jum          germ&lt;br /&gt;
 jduli dul   jdu         jinme jim          meta  jursa jus          seve&lt;br /&gt;
 jelly                   l                        re&lt;br /&gt;
 je jev   jve       tanr jinru jir          imme  jutsi jut          spec&lt;br /&gt;
 u and                   rse                      ies&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 juxre jux          clum kensa kes          oute  kruji ruj          crea&lt;br /&gt;
 sy                      r space                  m&lt;br /&gt;
 jvinu vin     ji&#039;u view kerfa    kre       hair  kruvi ruv   kru         &lt;br /&gt;
 ka kam        property  kerlo ker          ear   curve&lt;br /&gt;
 abstract                ketco ket   tco          ku&#039;a  kuz          inte&lt;br /&gt;
 kabri         cup       South American           rsection&lt;br /&gt;
 kacma         camera    kevna kev     ke&#039;a cavi  kubli kub          cube&lt;br /&gt;
 kadno         Canadian  ty                       kucli         curious&lt;br /&gt;
 kafke         cough     kicne kic     ki&#039;e cush  kufra kuf          comf&lt;br /&gt;
 kagni kag          comp ion                      ort&lt;br /&gt;
 any                     kijno kij          oxyg  kukte kuk          deli&lt;br /&gt;
 kajde    jde       warn en                       cious&lt;br /&gt;
 kajna         shelf     kilto       ki&#039;o   1000  kulnu    klu       cult&lt;br /&gt;
 kakne       ka&#039;e   able kinli kil          shar  ure&lt;br /&gt;
 kakpa         dig       p                        kumfa kum     ku&#039;a room&lt;br /&gt;
 kalci         feces     kisto kis          Paki  kumte         camel&lt;br /&gt;
 kalri kar          open stani                    kunra kun          mine&lt;br /&gt;
 kalsa kas          chao klaji laj          stre  ral&lt;br /&gt;
 tic                     et                       kunti kut          empt&lt;br /&gt;
 kalte kat          hunt klaku kak          weep  y&lt;br /&gt;
 kamju         column    klama    kla       come  kurfa kur          squa&lt;br /&gt;
 kamni         committee klani       lai    quan  re&lt;br /&gt;
 kampu       kau    comm tity                     kurji kuj     ku&#039;i take&lt;br /&gt;
 on                      klesi    kle  lei  clas  care of&lt;br /&gt;
 kanba         goat      s                        kurki         bitter&lt;br /&gt;
 kancu kac          coun klina    kli       clea  kuspe kup     ku&#039;e rang&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       r                        e&lt;br /&gt;
 kandi kad          dim  kliru         chlorine   kusru kus          crue&lt;br /&gt;
 kanji kaj          calc kliti kit          clay  l&lt;br /&gt;
 ulate                   klupe lup     lu&#039;e scre  labno         wolf&lt;br /&gt;
 kanla kal          eye  w                        lacpu lap   cpu         &lt;br /&gt;
 kanro       ka&#039;o   heal kluza luz          loos  pull&lt;br /&gt;
 thy                     e                        lacri lac          rely&lt;br /&gt;
 kansa kan          with kobli kob     ko&#039;i cabb  ladru lad          milk&lt;br /&gt;
 kantu       ka&#039;u   quan age                      lafti laf          lift&lt;br /&gt;
 tum                     kojna koj     ko&#039;a corn  lakne       la&#039;e   prob&lt;br /&gt;
 kanxe kax          conj er                       able&lt;br /&gt;
 unction                 kolme kol     ko&#039;e coal  lakse lak          wax&lt;br /&gt;
 karbi kab          comp komcu kom          comb  lalxu       la&#039;u   lake&lt;br /&gt;
 are                     konju kon     ko&#039;u cone  lamji lam     la&#039;i adja&lt;br /&gt;
 karce         car       korbi kor     koi  edge  cent&lt;br /&gt;
 karda         card      korcu    kro       bent  lanbi         protein&lt;br /&gt;
 kargu         costly    korka kok          cork  lanci         flag&lt;br /&gt;
 karli         collar    kosta kos          coat  lanka         basket&lt;br /&gt;
 karni         journal   kramu         acre       lanli lal          anal&lt;br /&gt;
 katna       ka&#039;a   cut  krasi    kra       sour  yze&lt;br /&gt;
 kavbu kav          capt ce                       lanme lan          shee&lt;br /&gt;
 ure                     krati       ka&#039;i   repr  p&lt;br /&gt;
 ke kem        start     esent                    lante         can&lt;br /&gt;
 grouping                krefu ref     ke&#039;u recu  lanxe lax          bala&lt;br /&gt;
 ke&#039;e  kep     ke&#039;e end  r                        nce&lt;br /&gt;
 grouping                krici    kri       beli  lanzu laz          fami&lt;br /&gt;
 kecti kec     ke&#039;i pity eve                      ly&lt;br /&gt;
 kei   kez          end  krili         crystal    larcu lar          art&lt;br /&gt;
 abstraction             krinu rin     ki&#039;u reas  lasna       la&#039;a   fast&lt;br /&gt;
 kelci kel     kei  play on                       en&lt;br /&gt;
 kelvo       ke&#039;o   kelv krixa kix     ki&#039;a cry   lastu         brass&lt;br /&gt;
 in                      out                      latmo       la&#039;o   Lati&lt;br /&gt;
 kenra ken          canc kruca kuc          inte  n&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      rsect                    latna         lotus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lazni         lazy      mabru mab          mamm  mentu met     me&#039;u minu&lt;br /&gt;
 le&#039;e  lem          the  al                       te&lt;br /&gt;
 stereotypical           macnu    cnu       manu  merko mer          Amer&lt;br /&gt;
 lebna leb     le&#039;a take al                       ican&lt;br /&gt;
 lenjo len     le&#039;o lens makcu       ma&#039;u   matu  merli    mre       meas&lt;br /&gt;
 lenku lek          cold re                       ure&lt;br /&gt;
 lerci lec          late makfa maf          magi  mexco mex          Mexi&lt;br /&gt;
 lerfu ler     le&#039;u lett c                        can&lt;br /&gt;
 eral                    maksi mak          magn  mi mib        me&lt;br /&gt;
 li&#039;i  liz          expe et                       midju mij          midd&lt;br /&gt;
 rience abstract         malsi mas          temp  le&lt;br /&gt;
 libjo lib          Liby le                       mifra mif          code&lt;br /&gt;
 an                      mamta mam          moth  mikce mic          doct&lt;br /&gt;
 lidne       li&#039;e   prec er                       or&lt;br /&gt;
 ede                     manci mac          wond  mikri mik          1E-6&lt;br /&gt;
 lifri lif   fri         er                       milti mil          .001&lt;br /&gt;
 experience              manfo         uniform    milxe    mli       mild&lt;br /&gt;
 lijda    jda       reli manku man          dark  minde mid     mi&#039;e comm&lt;br /&gt;
 gion                    manri mar          refe  and&lt;br /&gt;
 limna lim          swim rence                    minji       mi&#039;i   mach&lt;br /&gt;
 lindi lid          ligh mansa         satisfy    ine&lt;br /&gt;
 tning                   manti         ant        minli         mile&lt;br /&gt;
 linji lij     li&#039;i line mapku map          cap   minra mir          refl&lt;br /&gt;
 linsi lin          chai mapni         cotton     ect&lt;br /&gt;
 n                       mapti mat          fit   mintu mit     mi&#039;u same&lt;br /&gt;
 linto       li&#039;o   ligh marbi    mra       shel  mipri mip          secr&lt;br /&gt;
 tweight                 ter                      et&lt;br /&gt;
 lisri lis          stor marce       ma&#039;e   vehi  mirli         deer&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       cle                      misno mis     mi&#039;o famo&lt;br /&gt;
 liste    ste       list marde mad          mora  us&lt;br /&gt;
 litce lic          lite ls                       misro         Egyptian&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       margu mag          merc  mitre    tre       mete&lt;br /&gt;
 litki lik          liqu ury                      r&lt;br /&gt;
 id                      marji maj     mai  mate  mixre mix   xre         &lt;br /&gt;
 litru       li&#039;u   trav rial                     mixture&lt;br /&gt;
 el                      marna         hemp       mlana    mla       side&lt;br /&gt;
 livga         liver     marxa max          mash  mlatu lat          cat&lt;br /&gt;
 livla lil          fuel masno    sno       slow  mleca mec     me&#039;a less&lt;br /&gt;
 lo&#039;e  lom          the  masti       ma&#039;i   mont  mledi led          mold&lt;br /&gt;
 typical                 h                        mluni lun          sate&lt;br /&gt;
 logji loj          logi matci         mat        llite&lt;br /&gt;
 c                       matli         linen      mo&#039;a  mob          too&lt;br /&gt;
 lojbo lob   jbo         matne         butter     few&lt;br /&gt;
 Lojbanic                matra         motor      mo&#039;i  mov          spac&lt;br /&gt;
 loldi lol     loi  floo mavji mav          oats  e motion&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       maxri    xri       whea  moi   mom     moi  ordi&lt;br /&gt;
 lorxu lor     lo&#039;u fox  t                        nal selbri&lt;br /&gt;
 lubno       lu&#039;o   Leba mebri meb          brow  mokca moc          poin&lt;br /&gt;
 nese                    megdo meg          1E6   t&lt;br /&gt;
 lujvo luv   jvo         mei   mem     mei  card  moklu mol     mo&#039;u mout&lt;br /&gt;
 affix compound          inal selbri              h&lt;br /&gt;
 lumci lum     lu&#039;i wash mekso mek     me&#039;o MEX   molki    mlo       mill&lt;br /&gt;
 lunbe lub          bare melbi mel   mle          molro       mo&#039;o   mole&lt;br /&gt;
 lunra lur          luna beautiful                morji moj     mo&#039;i reme&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       meljo mej          Mala  mber&lt;br /&gt;
 lunsa lus          cond ysian                    morko mor          Moro&lt;br /&gt;
 ense                    menli men          mind  ccan&lt;br /&gt;
 mabla mal          dero mensi mes     me&#039;i sist  morna mon     mo&#039;a patt&lt;br /&gt;
 gative                  er                       ern&lt;br /&gt;
                                                  morsi    mro       dead&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mosra mos          fric nejni nen          ener  panka         park&lt;br /&gt;
 tion                    gy                       panlo       pa&#039;o   slic&lt;br /&gt;
 mraji         rye       nelci nel     nei  fond  e&lt;br /&gt;
 mrilu    mri       mail nenri ner     ne&#039;i in    panpi pap          peac&lt;br /&gt;
 mruli    mru       hamm ni nil        amount     e&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      abstract                 panra         parallel&lt;br /&gt;
 mu mum        5         nibli nib     ni&#039;i nece  pante pat          prot&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;e  muf          poin ssitate                  est&lt;br /&gt;
 t-event abstract        nicte    cte       nigh  panzi paz          offs&lt;br /&gt;
 mucti mut          imma t                        pring&lt;br /&gt;
 terial                  nikle nik          nick  papri         page&lt;br /&gt;
 mudri mud          wood el                       parbi pab          rati&lt;br /&gt;
 mukti muk     mu&#039;i moti nilce       ni&#039;e   furn  o&lt;br /&gt;
 ve                      iture                    pastu pas          robe&lt;br /&gt;
 mulno mul     mu&#039;o comp nimre         citrus     patfu paf     pa&#039;u fath&lt;br /&gt;
 lete                    ninmu nim     ni&#039;u woma  er&lt;br /&gt;
 munje muj     mu&#039;e univ n                        patlu         potato&lt;br /&gt;
 erse                    nirna nir          nerv  patxu pax          pot&lt;br /&gt;
 mupli mup          exam e                        pe&#039;a  pev          figu&lt;br /&gt;
 ple                     nitcu    tcu       need  rative&lt;br /&gt;
 murse         glimmerin nivji niv          knit  pelji    ple       pape&lt;br /&gt;
 g                       nixli nix   xli          r&lt;br /&gt;
 murta mur     mu&#039;a curt girl                     pelxu pel          yell&lt;br /&gt;
 ain                     no non        0          ow&lt;br /&gt;
 muslo mus          Isla no&#039;e  nor     no&#039;e scal  pemci pem          poem&lt;br /&gt;
 mic                     ar midpoint not          penbi peb          pen&lt;br /&gt;
 mutce    tce       much nobli nol     no&#039;i nobl  pencu pec     pe&#039;u touc&lt;br /&gt;
 muvdu muv     mu&#039;u move e                        h&lt;br /&gt;
 muzga muz          muse notci not     noi  mess  pendo ped     pe&#039;o frie&lt;br /&gt;
 um                      age                      nd&lt;br /&gt;
 na nar        bridi     nu nun        event      penmi pen     pe&#039;i meet&lt;br /&gt;
 negator                 abstract                 pensi pes     pei  thin&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;e  nal          scal nu&#039;o        nu&#039;o   can   k&lt;br /&gt;
 ar contrary             but has not              perli per          pear&lt;br /&gt;
 nabmi nam          prob nukni nuk          mage  pesxu pex          past&lt;br /&gt;
 lem                     nta                      e&lt;br /&gt;
 nakni nak          male nupre nup     nu&#039;e prom  petso pet          1E15&lt;br /&gt;
 nalci       na&#039;i   wing ise                      pezli pez          leaf&lt;br /&gt;
 namcu nac     na&#039;u numb nurma num          rura  pi piz        decimal&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      l                        point&lt;br /&gt;
 nanba nab          brea nutli nul     nu&#039;i neut  pi&#039;u  piv          cros&lt;br /&gt;
 d                       ral                      s product&lt;br /&gt;
 nanca       na&#039;a   year nuzba nuz          news  picti pic          1E-&lt;br /&gt;
 nandu nad          diff pa pav        1          12&lt;br /&gt;
 icult                   pacna       pa&#039;a   hope  pijne         pin&lt;br /&gt;
 nanla         boy       pagbu pag     pau  part  pikci         beg&lt;br /&gt;
 nanmu       nau    man  pagre    gre       pass  pikta         ticket&lt;br /&gt;
 nanvi nav          1E-9 through                  pilji       pi&#039;i   mult&lt;br /&gt;
 narge nag          nut  pajni       pai    judg  iply&lt;br /&gt;
 narju naj          oran e                        pilka pil     pi&#039;a crus&lt;br /&gt;
 ge                      palci pac          evil  t&lt;br /&gt;
 natfe naf     na&#039;e deny palku pak          pant  pilno    pli       use&lt;br /&gt;
 natmi nat     nai  nati s                        pimlu pim     pi&#039;u feat&lt;br /&gt;
 on                      palne         tray       her&lt;br /&gt;
 navni         neon      palta         plate      pinca         urine&lt;br /&gt;
 naxle nax   xle         pambe         pump       pindi pid          poor&lt;br /&gt;
 canal                   panci pan          odor  pinfu pif          pris&lt;br /&gt;
 nazbi naz   zbi         pandi pad          punc  oner&lt;br /&gt;
 nose                    tuate                    pinji         penis&lt;br /&gt;
                         panje         sponge&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 pinka pik          comm pruce ruc     ru&#039;e proc  remna rem     re&#039;a huma&lt;br /&gt;
 ent                     ess                      n&lt;br /&gt;
 pinsi pis          penc pruni pun          elas  renro rer     re&#039;o thro&lt;br /&gt;
 il                      tic                      w&lt;br /&gt;
 pinta pin          leve pruxi rux     ru&#039;i spir  renvi rev     re&#039;i surv&lt;br /&gt;
 l                       it                       ive&lt;br /&gt;
 pinxe pix          drin pu&#039;i  pus          can   respa res          rept&lt;br /&gt;
 k                       and has                  ile&lt;br /&gt;
 pipno       pi&#039;o   pian pu&#039;u  puv          proc  ricfu rif   cfu         &lt;br /&gt;
 o                       ess abstract             rich&lt;br /&gt;
 pixra pir   xra         pulce puc     pu&#039;e dust  rigni rig          disg&lt;br /&gt;
 picture                 pulji         police     usting&lt;br /&gt;
 plana         plump     pulni         pulley     rijno rij          silv&lt;br /&gt;
 platu    pla       plan punji puj     pu&#039;i put   er&lt;br /&gt;
 pleji lej     le&#039;i pay  punli pul          swel  rilti ril          rhyt&lt;br /&gt;
 plibu pib          pubi ling                     hm&lt;br /&gt;
 c                       purci pur   pru          rimni rim          rhym&lt;br /&gt;
 plini         planet    past                     e&lt;br /&gt;
 plipe pip     pi&#039;e leap purdi pud          gard  rinci         drain&lt;br /&gt;
 plise         apple     en                       rinju       ri&#039;u   rest&lt;br /&gt;
 plita pit          plan purmo pum     pu&#039;o powd  rain&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       er                       rinka rik     ri&#039;a caus&lt;br /&gt;
 plixa lix          plow racli         sane       e&lt;br /&gt;
 pluja luj          comp ractu         rabbit     rinsa         greet&lt;br /&gt;
 licated                 radno       ra&#039;o   radi  rirci         rare&lt;br /&gt;
 pluka puk     pu&#039;a plea an                       rirni rir          pare&lt;br /&gt;
 sant                    rafsi raf          affi  nt&lt;br /&gt;
 pluta lut     lu&#039;a rout x                        rirxe       ri&#039;e   rive&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       ragve rav          acro  r&lt;br /&gt;
 polje    plo       fold ss                       rismi ris          rice&lt;br /&gt;
 polno pol          Poly rakso         Iraqi      risna         heart&lt;br /&gt;
 nesian                  raktu       ra&#039;u   trou  ritli       ri&#039;i   rite&lt;br /&gt;
 ponjo pon     po&#039;o Japa ble                      rivbi riv          avoi&lt;br /&gt;
 nese                    ralci rac          deli  d&lt;br /&gt;
 ponse pos     po&#039;e poss cate                     ro rol        each&lt;br /&gt;
 ess                     ralju ral          prin  roi   rom     roi  quan&lt;br /&gt;
 porpi pop     po&#039;i brea cipal                    tified tense&lt;br /&gt;
 k                       ralte       ra&#039;e   reta  rokci rok     ro&#039;i rock&lt;br /&gt;
 porsi por     poi  sequ in                       romge rog          chro&lt;br /&gt;
 ence                    randa rad          yiel  me&lt;br /&gt;
 porto pot          Port d                        ropno ron     ro&#039;o Euro&lt;br /&gt;
 uguese                  rango rag          orga  pean&lt;br /&gt;
 prali pal          prof n                        rorci ror          proc&lt;br /&gt;
 it                      ranji       ra&#039;i   cont  reate&lt;br /&gt;
 prami pam     pa&#039;i love inue                     rotsu rot   tsu    ro&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
 prane       pa&#039;e   perf ranmi ram          myth  thick&lt;br /&gt;
 ect                     ransu         bronze     rozgu roz   zgu         &lt;br /&gt;
 preja pej     pe&#039;a spre ranti ran          soft  rose&lt;br /&gt;
 ad                      ranxi rax          iron  ruble rub   ble         &lt;br /&gt;
 prenu    pre       pers y                        weak&lt;br /&gt;
 on                      rapli rap          repe  rufsu ruf          roug&lt;br /&gt;
 preti ret     rei  ques at                       h&lt;br /&gt;
 tion                    rarna rar          natu  runme rum          melt&lt;br /&gt;
 prije pij          wise ral                      runta         dissolve&lt;br /&gt;
 prina    pri       prin ratcu         rat        rupnu rup     ru&#039;u doll&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       ratni rat          atom  ar&lt;br /&gt;
 pritu         right     re rel        2          rusko ruk     ru&#039;o Russ&lt;br /&gt;
 prosa ros     ro&#039;a pros rebla reb          tail  ian&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       rectu rec     re&#039;u meat  rutni run          arti&lt;br /&gt;
                                                  fact&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 sabji sab          prov senta set          laye  skori    sko       cord&lt;br /&gt;
 ide                     r                        skoto kot     ko&#039;o Scot&lt;br /&gt;
 sabnu         cabin     senva sev   sne          tish&lt;br /&gt;
 sacki         match     dream                    skuro       ku&#039;o   groo&lt;br /&gt;
 saclu         decimal   sepli sep     sei  apar  ve&lt;br /&gt;
 sadjo    djo       Saud t                        slabu       sau    old&lt;br /&gt;
 i                       serti ser          stai  slaka         syllable&lt;br /&gt;
 sakci sak          suck rs                       slami         acid&lt;br /&gt;
 sakli sal          slid setca       se&#039;a   inse  slanu         cylinder&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       rt                       slari sar          sour&lt;br /&gt;
 sakta sat          suga sevzi sez     se&#039;i self  slasi las          plas&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       sfani         fly        tic&lt;br /&gt;
 salci    sla       cele sfasa    sfa       puni  sligu lig          soli&lt;br /&gt;
 brate                   sh                       d&lt;br /&gt;
 salpo       sa&#039;o   slop sfofa    sfo       sofa  slilu    sli       osci&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       sfubu sub     su&#039;u dive  llate&lt;br /&gt;
 salta         salad     si&#039;o  siz          conc  sliri         sulfur&lt;br /&gt;
 samcu         cassava   ept abstract             slovo lov     lo&#039;o Slav&lt;br /&gt;
 sampu sap          simp siclu sil          whis  ic&lt;br /&gt;
 le                      tle                      sluji    slu       musc&lt;br /&gt;
 sance    sna       soun sicni       si&#039;i   coin  le&lt;br /&gt;
 d                       sidbo sib     si&#039;o idea  sluni         onion&lt;br /&gt;
 sanga sag     sa&#039;a sing sidju    dju       help  smacu         mouse&lt;br /&gt;
 sanji saj          cons sigja sig          ciga  smadi         guess&lt;br /&gt;
 cious                   r                        smaji    sma       quie&lt;br /&gt;
 sanli       sa&#039;i   stan silka sik          silk  t&lt;br /&gt;
 d                       silna         salt       smani         monkey&lt;br /&gt;
 sanmi       sai    meal simlu    mlu       seem  smoka    smo       sock&lt;br /&gt;
 sanso         sauce     simsa    smi       simi  smuci muc          spoo&lt;br /&gt;
 santa         umbrella  lar                      n&lt;br /&gt;
 sarcu       sa&#039;u   nece simxu sim     si&#039;u mutu  smuni mun   smu         &lt;br /&gt;
 ssary                   al                       meaning&lt;br /&gt;
 sarji    sra       supp since         snake      snada sad          succ&lt;br /&gt;
 ort                     sinma       si&#039;a   este  eed&lt;br /&gt;
 sarlu         spiral    em                       snanu nan          sout&lt;br /&gt;
 sarxe sax          harm sinso         sine       h&lt;br /&gt;
 onious                  sinxa    sni       sign  snidu nid          seco&lt;br /&gt;
 saske    ske       scie sipna sip          slee  nd&lt;br /&gt;
 nce                     p                        snime       si&#039;e   snow&lt;br /&gt;
 satci         exact     sirji sir          stra  snipa nip          stic&lt;br /&gt;
 satre       sa&#039;e   stro ight                     ky&lt;br /&gt;
 ke                      sirxo six          Syri  snuji nuj          sand&lt;br /&gt;
 savru sav   vru         an                       wich&lt;br /&gt;
 noise                   sisku sis          seek  snura nur     nu&#039;a secu&lt;br /&gt;
 sazri saz          oper sisti    sti       ceas  re&lt;br /&gt;
 ate                     e                        snuti nut          acci&lt;br /&gt;
 se sel        2nd       sitna sit          cite  dental&lt;br /&gt;
 conversion              sivni siv          priv  so soz        9&lt;br /&gt;
 sefta    sfe       surf ate                      so&#039;a  soj          almo&lt;br /&gt;
 ace                     skaci         skirt      st all&lt;br /&gt;
 selci    sle       cell skami sam          comp  so&#039;e  sop          most&lt;br /&gt;
 selfu sef     se&#039;u serv uter                     so&#039;i  sor     so&#039;i many&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       skapi kap          pelt  so&#039;o  sos          seve&lt;br /&gt;
 semto    sme       Semi skari    ska       colo  ral&lt;br /&gt;
 tic                     r                        so&#039;u  sot          few&lt;br /&gt;
 senci sec          snee skicu    ski       desc  sobde sob     so&#039;e soya&lt;br /&gt;
 ze                      ribe                     sodna         sodium&lt;br /&gt;
 senpi sen          doub skiji sij          ski   sodva sod          soda&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       skina kin          cine  softo sof          Sovi&lt;br /&gt;
                         ma                       et&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 solji    slo       gold steci tec     te&#039;i spec  tance tac          tong&lt;br /&gt;
 solri sol          sola ific                     ue&lt;br /&gt;
 r                       stedu sed          head  tanjo         tangent&lt;br /&gt;
 sombo som     so&#039;o sow  stela tel          lock  tanko         tobacco&lt;br /&gt;
 sonci son     soi  sold stero       te&#039;o   ster  tanru       tau    phra&lt;br /&gt;
 ier                     adian                    se compound&lt;br /&gt;
 sorcu soc   sro         stici sic          west  tansi tas          pan&lt;br /&gt;
 store                   stidi sid     ti&#039;i sugg  tanxe tax     ta&#039;e box&lt;br /&gt;
 sorgu sog          sorg est                      tapla         tile&lt;br /&gt;
 hum                     stika tik          adju  tarbi         embryo&lt;br /&gt;
 sovda sov     so&#039;a egg  st                       tarci tar          star&lt;br /&gt;
 spaji paj          surp stizu tiz          chai  tarla         tar&lt;br /&gt;
 rise                    r                        tarmi tam     tai  shap&lt;br /&gt;
 spali         polish    stodi    sto       cons  e&lt;br /&gt;
 spano san          Span tant                     tarti    tra       beha&lt;br /&gt;
 ish                     stuna sun          east  ve&lt;br /&gt;
 spati    spa       plan stura tur     su&#039;a stru  taske         thirst&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       cture                    tatpi       ta&#039;i   tire&lt;br /&gt;
 speni    spe       marr stuzi tuz   stu          d&lt;br /&gt;
 ied                     site                     tatru tat          brea&lt;br /&gt;
 spisa    spi       piec su&#039;e  sup     su&#039;e at    st&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       most                     tavla tav     ta&#039;a talk&lt;br /&gt;
 spita         hospital  su&#039;o  suz     su&#039;o at    taxfu taf     ta&#039;u garm&lt;br /&gt;
 spofu pof     po&#039;u brok least                    ent&lt;br /&gt;
 en                      su&#039;u  suv          unsp  tcaci cac          cust&lt;br /&gt;
 spoja poj     po&#039;a expl ecif abstract            om&lt;br /&gt;
 ode                     sucta suc          abst  tcadu    tca       city&lt;br /&gt;
 spuda    spu       repl ract                     tcana         station&lt;br /&gt;
 y                       sudga sud          dry   tcati         tea&lt;br /&gt;
 sputu put     pu&#039;u spit sufti    sfu       hoof  tcena ten          stre&lt;br /&gt;
 sraji raj          vert suksa suk          sudd  tch&lt;br /&gt;
 ical                    en                       tcica tic          dece&lt;br /&gt;
 sraku rak          scra sumji suj          sum   ive&lt;br /&gt;
 tch                     sumne         smell      tcidu tid          read&lt;br /&gt;
 sralo         Australia sumti sum     su&#039;i argu  tcika         time of&lt;br /&gt;
 n                       ment                     day&lt;br /&gt;
 srana       ra&#039;a   pert sunga sug          garl  tcila til          deta&lt;br /&gt;
 ain                     ic                       il&lt;br /&gt;
 srasu sas          gras sunla sul          wool  tcima tim     ti&#039;a weat&lt;br /&gt;
 s                       surla sur          rela  her&lt;br /&gt;
 srera    sre       err  x                        tcini         situation&lt;br /&gt;
 srito         Sanskrit  sutra sut          fast  tcita         label&lt;br /&gt;
 sruma       ru&#039;a   assu ta taz        that       te ter        3rd&lt;br /&gt;
 me                      there                    conversion&lt;br /&gt;
 sruri rur   sru         tabno tab          carb  temci tem     tei  time&lt;br /&gt;
 surround                on                       tenfa tef          expo&lt;br /&gt;
 stace sac          hone tabra         trumpet    nential&lt;br /&gt;
 st                      tadji         method     tengu teg     te&#039;u text&lt;br /&gt;
 stagi         vegetable tadni tad          stud  ure&lt;br /&gt;
 staku tak          cera y                        terdi ted          eart&lt;br /&gt;
 mic                     tagji tag          snug  h&lt;br /&gt;
 stali    sta       rema talsa tal          chal  terpa tep     te&#039;a fear&lt;br /&gt;
 in                      lenge                    terto tet          1E12&lt;br /&gt;
 stani         stalk     tamca         tomato     ti tif        this here&lt;br /&gt;
 stapa tap          step tamji taj          thum  tigni tig          perf&lt;br /&gt;
 stasu         soup      b                        orm&lt;br /&gt;
 stati         talent    tamne         cousin     tikpa tip          kick&lt;br /&gt;
 steba seb          frus tanbo       ta&#039;o   boar  tilju tij          heav&lt;br /&gt;
 tration                 d                        y&lt;br /&gt;
                                                  tinbe tib          obey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 tinci         tin       tutra tut          terr  vitno       vi&#039;o   perm&lt;br /&gt;
 tinsa         stiff     itory                    anent&lt;br /&gt;
 tirna tin          hear va vaz        there at   vlagi lag          vulv&lt;br /&gt;
 tirse tir          iron vacri var          air   a&lt;br /&gt;
 tirxu         tiger     vajni vaj     vai  impo  vlile vil          viol&lt;br /&gt;
 tisna tis          fill rtant                    ent&lt;br /&gt;
 titla tit          swee valsi val   vla          vlina         alternati&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       word                     on&lt;br /&gt;
 tivni tiv          tele vamji vam     va&#039;i valu  vlipa    vli       powe&lt;br /&gt;
 vision                  e                        rful&lt;br /&gt;
 tixnu tix     ti&#039;u daug vamtu vat          vomi  vo von        4&lt;br /&gt;
 hter                    t                        vofli vol     voi  flig&lt;br /&gt;
 to&#039;e  tol     to&#039;e pola vanbi vab          envi  ht&lt;br /&gt;
 r opposite              ronment                  voksa vok     vo&#039;a voic&lt;br /&gt;
 toknu tok          oven vanci vac          even  e&lt;br /&gt;
 toldi tod          butt ing                      vorme vor   vro         &lt;br /&gt;
 erfly                   vanju van          wine  door&lt;br /&gt;
 tonga tog     to&#039;a tone vasru vas     vau  cont  vraga    vra       leve&lt;br /&gt;
 tordu tor     to&#039;u shor ain                      r&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       vasxu vax     va&#039;u brea  vreji rej     vei  reco&lt;br /&gt;
 torni ton     to&#039;i twis the                      rd&lt;br /&gt;
 t                       ve vel        4th        vreta    vre       recl&lt;br /&gt;
 traji       rai    supe conversion               ining&lt;br /&gt;
 rlative                 ve&#039;e        ve&#039;e   whol  vrici         miscellan&lt;br /&gt;
 trano         nitrogen  e space interval         eous&lt;br /&gt;
 trati         taut      vecnu ven     ve&#039;u sell  vrude vud     vu&#039;e virt&lt;br /&gt;
 trene ren     re&#039;e trai venfu vef          reve  ue&lt;br /&gt;
 n                       nge                      vrusi vus     vu&#039;i tast&lt;br /&gt;
 tricu ric          tree vensa ves          spri  e&lt;br /&gt;
 trina    tri       attr ng                       vu vuz        yonder at&lt;br /&gt;
 act                     verba ver     ve&#039;a chil  vukro vur     vu&#039;o Ukra&lt;br /&gt;
 trixe rix     ti&#039;e behi d                        inian&lt;br /&gt;
 nd                      vi viz        here at    xa xav        6&lt;br /&gt;
 troci toc     toi  try  vibna vib          vagi  xabju       xa&#039;u   dwel&lt;br /&gt;
 tsali    tsa       stro na                       l&lt;br /&gt;
 ng                      vidni         video      xadba xab          half&lt;br /&gt;
 tsani tan          sky  vidru vir          viru  xadni xad          body&lt;br /&gt;
 tsapi         seasoning s                        xagji         hunger&lt;br /&gt;
 tsiju    tsi       seed vifne vif          fres  xagri         reed&lt;br /&gt;
 tsina sin          stag h                        xajmi xam          funn&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       vikmi vim     vi&#039;i excr  y&lt;br /&gt;
 tu tuf        that      ete                      xaksu xak          use&lt;br /&gt;
 yonder                  viknu vik          visc  up&lt;br /&gt;
 tubnu       tu&#039;u   tube ous                      xalbo         levity&lt;br /&gt;
 tugni tug     tu&#039;i agre vimcu vic     vi&#039;u remo  xalka xal          alco&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       ve                       hol&lt;br /&gt;
 tujli tuj          tuli vindu vid          pois  xalni         panic&lt;br /&gt;
 p                       on                       xamgu xag     xau  good&lt;br /&gt;
 tumla tum     tu&#039;a land vinji vij          airp  xampo xap     xa&#039;o ampe&lt;br /&gt;
 tunba tub          sibl lane                     re&lt;br /&gt;
 ing                     vipsi vip          depu  xamsi xas          sea&lt;br /&gt;
 tunka tuk          copp ty                       xance xan     xa&#039;e hand&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      virnu    vri       brav  xanka         nervous&lt;br /&gt;
 tunlo tul     tu&#039;o swal e                        xanri xar          imag&lt;br /&gt;
 low                     viska vis     vi&#039;a see   inary&lt;br /&gt;
 tunta tun          poke vitci vit          irre  xanto         elephant&lt;br /&gt;
 tuple tup     tu&#039;e leg  gular                    xarci xac     xa&#039;i weap&lt;br /&gt;
 turni    tru       gove vitke       vi&#039;e   gues  on&lt;br /&gt;
 rn                      t                        xarju xaj          pig&lt;br /&gt;
 tutci    tci       tool                          xarnu         stubborn&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 xasli         donkey    za&#039;i  zaz          stat  zumri    zmu       maiz&lt;br /&gt;
 xasne         sweat     e abstract               e&lt;br /&gt;
 xatra       xa&#039;a   lett za&#039;o        za&#039;o   supe  zungi zug          guil&lt;br /&gt;
 er                      rfective                 t&lt;br /&gt;
 xatsi xat          1E-  zabna zan     za&#039;a favo  zunle zul          left&lt;br /&gt;
 18                      rable                    zunti zun     zu&#039;i inte&lt;br /&gt;
 xazdo xaz   zdo         zajba zaj          gymn  rfere&lt;br /&gt;
 Asiatic                 ast                      zutse zut   tse         &lt;br /&gt;
 xe xel        5th       zalvi zal          grin  sit&lt;br /&gt;
 conversion              d                        zvati    zva       at&lt;br /&gt;
 xebni xen     xei  hate zanru zar     zau  appr&lt;br /&gt;
 xebro xeb   bro         ove&lt;br /&gt;
 Hebrew                  zarci zac     zai  mark&lt;br /&gt;
 xecto xet   cto         et&lt;br /&gt;
 100                     zargu zag     za&#039;u butt&lt;br /&gt;
 xedja xej     xe&#039;a jaw  ock&lt;br /&gt;
 xekri xek     xe&#039;i blac zasni zas          temp&lt;br /&gt;
 k                       orary&lt;br /&gt;
 xelso xes          Gree zasti zat     za&#039;i exis&lt;br /&gt;
 k                       t&lt;br /&gt;
 xendo xed     xe&#039;o kind zbabu bab          soap&lt;br /&gt;
 xenru xer     xe&#039;u regr zbani         bay&lt;br /&gt;
 et                      zbasu    zba       make&lt;br /&gt;
 xexso xex          1E18 zbepi    zbe       pede&lt;br /&gt;
 xindo xin          Hind stal&lt;br /&gt;
 i                       zdani    zda       nest&lt;br /&gt;
 xinmo xim          ink  zdile    zdi       amus&lt;br /&gt;
 xirma xir     xi&#039;a hors ing&lt;br /&gt;
 e                       ze zel        7&lt;br /&gt;
 xislu xil     xi&#039;u whee ze&#039;e        ze&#039;e   whol&lt;br /&gt;
 l                       e time interval&lt;br /&gt;
 xispo xip          Hisp ze&#039;o  zev     ze&#039;o outw&lt;br /&gt;
 anic                    ard&lt;br /&gt;
 xlali    xla       bad  zekri zer     zei  crim&lt;br /&gt;
 xlura    xlu       infl e&lt;br /&gt;
 uence                   zenba zen     ze&#039;a incr&lt;br /&gt;
 xotli xol     xoi  hote ease&lt;br /&gt;
 l                       zepti zep          1E-&lt;br /&gt;
 xrabo rab          Arab 21&lt;br /&gt;
 ic                      zetro zet          1E21&lt;br /&gt;
 xrani       xai    inju zgana    zga       obse&lt;br /&gt;
 re                      rve&lt;br /&gt;
 xriso xis     xi&#039;o Chri zgike    zgi  gi&#039;e musi&lt;br /&gt;
 stian                   c&lt;br /&gt;
 xruba xub          buck zifre zif     zi&#039;e free&lt;br /&gt;
 wheat                   zinki zin     zi&#039;i zinc&lt;br /&gt;
 xruki xuk          turk zirpu zir     zi&#039;u purp&lt;br /&gt;
 ey                      le&lt;br /&gt;
 xrula rul          flow zivle ziv   vle         &lt;br /&gt;
 er                      invest&lt;br /&gt;
 xruti    xru       retu zmadu    zma  mau  more&lt;br /&gt;
 rn                      zmiku    zmi       auto&lt;br /&gt;
 xukmi xum     xu&#039;i chem matic&lt;br /&gt;
 ical                    zo&#039;a  zon     zo&#039;a tang&lt;br /&gt;
 xunre xun     xu&#039;e red  ential to&lt;br /&gt;
 xurdo xur     xu&#039;o Urdi zo&#039;i  zor     zo&#039;i inwa&lt;br /&gt;
 xusra xus     xu&#039;a asse rd&lt;br /&gt;
 rt                      zu&#039;o  zum          acti&lt;br /&gt;
 xutla xul          smoo vity abstract&lt;br /&gt;
 th                      zukte zuk     zu&#039;e act&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 bab    zbabu  soa big    bilga  obl  cag    cange  far  cim    cilmo  moi&lt;br /&gt;
         p                 iged               m                  st&lt;br /&gt;
 bac    bancu  bey bij    briju  off  caj    canja  exc  cin    cinse  sex&lt;br /&gt;
         ond               ice                hange              ual&lt;br /&gt;
 bad    bandu  def bik    bikla  whi  cak    calku  she  cip    cipra  tes&lt;br /&gt;
         end               p                  ll                 t&lt;br /&gt;
 baf    bakfu  bun bil    bilni  mil  cal    canlu  spa  cir    citri  his&lt;br /&gt;
         dle               itary              ce                 tory&lt;br /&gt;
 bag    bargu  arc bim    bitmu  wal  cam    carmi  int  cis    crisa  sum&lt;br /&gt;
         h                 l                  ense               mer&lt;br /&gt;
 baj    bajra  run bin    jbini  bet  can    canre  san  cit    citno  you&lt;br /&gt;
 bak    bakni  bov         ween               d                  ng&lt;br /&gt;
         ine       bir    birka  arm  cap    ckape  per  civ    civla  lou&lt;br /&gt;
 bal    banli  gre bis    bisli  ice          il                 se&lt;br /&gt;
         at        bit    birti  cer  car    carna  tur  ciz    cizra  str&lt;br /&gt;
 bam    jbama  bom         tain               n                  ange&lt;br /&gt;
         b         biv    bi     8    cas    ckasu  rid  col    co     tan&lt;br /&gt;
 ban    bangu  lan bix    binxo  bec          icule              ru&lt;br /&gt;
         guage             ome        cat    cartu  cha          inversion&lt;br /&gt;
 bap    bapli  for biz    bi&#039;i   uno          rt         com    co&#039;e   uns&lt;br /&gt;
         ce                rdered     cav    carvi  rai          pecif&lt;br /&gt;
 bar    bartu  out         interval           n                  bridi&lt;br /&gt;
 bas    basti  rep bof    boxfo  she  cax    caxno  sha  con    condi  dee&lt;br /&gt;
         lace              et                 llow               p&lt;br /&gt;
 bat    batci  bit bog    bongu  bon  caz    ca&#039;a   act  cor    cortu  pai&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 e                  ually is           n&lt;br /&gt;
 bav    balvi  fut bol    bolci  bal  cec    ce     in   cuc    cutci  sho&lt;br /&gt;
         ure               l                  a set              e&lt;br /&gt;
 bax    banxa  ban bon    boxna  wav          with       cuk    cukla  rou&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 e          ced    cerda  hei          nd&lt;br /&gt;
 baz    banzu  suf bor    bo     sho          r          cul    cumla  hum&lt;br /&gt;
         fice              rt scope   cek    creka  shi          ble&lt;br /&gt;
 beb    bebna  foo         link               rt         cum    cumki  pos&lt;br /&gt;
         lish      bot    botpi  bot  cel    cecla  lau          sible&lt;br /&gt;
 bed    bende  cre         tle                ncher      cun    cunso  ran&lt;br /&gt;
         w         bud    bunda  pou  cem    cecmu  com          dom&lt;br /&gt;
 bef    betfu  abd         nd                 munity     cup    clupa  loo&lt;br /&gt;
         omen      buj    budjo  Bud  cen    centi  .01          p&lt;br /&gt;
 beg    bengo  Ben         dhist      cer    cerni  mor  cur    curnu  wor&lt;br /&gt;
         gali      buk    bukpu  clo          ning               m&lt;br /&gt;
 bej    benji  tra         th         ces    censa  hol  cus    cusku  exp&lt;br /&gt;
         nsfer     bul    bu&#039;a   som          y                  ress&lt;br /&gt;
 bem    bemro  Nor         e selbri   cev    cevni  god  cut    cutne  che&lt;br /&gt;
         th                1          cez    ce&#039;i   per          st&lt;br /&gt;
         American  bum    bumru  fog          cent       cuv    curve  pur&lt;br /&gt;
 ben    besna  bra bun    bruna  bro  cib    ci     3            e&lt;br /&gt;
         in                ther       cic    cilce  wil  cux    cuxna  cho&lt;br /&gt;
 ber    berti  nor bur    bunre  bro          d                  ose&lt;br /&gt;
         th                wn         cid    cidni  kne  dab    damba  fig&lt;br /&gt;
 bes    bersa  son bus    bu     wor          e                  ht&lt;br /&gt;
 bet    betri  tra         d to       cif    cifnu  inf  dac    dacru  dra&lt;br /&gt;
         gedy              lerfu              ant                wer&lt;br /&gt;
 bev    bevri  car cab    cabna  now  cig    cigla  gla  dad    dandu  han&lt;br /&gt;
         ry        cac    tcaci  cus          nd                 g&lt;br /&gt;
 bic    bifce  bee         tom        cij    cinje  wri  daf    danfu  ans&lt;br /&gt;
 bid    bindo  Ind cad    cando  idl          nkle               wer&lt;br /&gt;
         onesian           e          cik    cikna  awa  dag    dargu  roa&lt;br /&gt;
 bif    brife  bre caf    cafne  oft          ke                 d&lt;br /&gt;
         eze               en         cil    cilta  thr  daj    dadjo  Tao&lt;br /&gt;
                                              ead                ist&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 dak    dakfu  kni don    do     you  fed    fendi  div  gar    garna  rai&lt;br /&gt;
         fe        dor    donri  day          ide                l&lt;br /&gt;
 dal    danlu  ani         time       feg    fengu  ang  gas    ganse  sen&lt;br /&gt;
         mal       dot    dotco  Ger          ry                 se&lt;br /&gt;
 dam    danmo  smo         man        fek    fenki  cra  gat    gasta  ste&lt;br /&gt;
         ke        dub    du     sam          zy                 el&lt;br /&gt;
 dan    danti  pro         e          fem    femti  1E-  gax    ganxo  anu&lt;br /&gt;
         jectile           identity           15                 s&lt;br /&gt;
 dap    dapma  cur         as         fen    fenso  sew  gaz    ganzu  org&lt;br /&gt;
         se        dud    dunda  giv  fep    fepni  cen          anize&lt;br /&gt;
 dar    darno  far         e                  t          gej    genja  roo&lt;br /&gt;
 das    dasni  wea dug    dugri  log  fer    fenra  cra          t&lt;br /&gt;
         r                 arithm             ck         gek    gleki  hap&lt;br /&gt;
 dat    drata  oth duj    dunja  fre  fes    festi  was          py&lt;br /&gt;
         er                eze                te         gen    gerna  gra&lt;br /&gt;
 dav    da     som duk    dunku  ang  fet    fetsi  fem          mmar&lt;br /&gt;
         ething 1          uish               ale        ger    gerku  dog&lt;br /&gt;
 dax    darxi  hit dul    jduli  jel  fic    frica  dif  get    gento  Arg&lt;br /&gt;
 daz    da&#039;a   all         ly                 fer                entinian&lt;br /&gt;
         except    dum    du&#039;u   bri  fig    figre  fig  gex    genxu  hoo&lt;br /&gt;
 deb    dembi  bea         di         fik    cfika  fic          k&lt;br /&gt;
         n                 abstract           tion       gic    glico  Eng&lt;br /&gt;
 dec    decti  .1  dun    dunli  equ  fil    frili  eas          lish&lt;br /&gt;
 deg    degji  fin         al                 y          gid    gidva  gui&lt;br /&gt;
         ger       dur    dunra  win  fin    finti  inv          de&lt;br /&gt;
 dej    dejni  owe         ter                ent        gig    gigdo  1E9&lt;br /&gt;
 dek    dekto  10  dus    dukse  exc  fip    finpe  fis  gik    ginka  cam&lt;br /&gt;
 del    delno  can         ess                h                  p&lt;br /&gt;
         dela      dut    dukti  opp  fir    flira  fac  gim    gismu  roo&lt;br /&gt;
 dem    denmi  den         osite              e                  t word&lt;br /&gt;
         se        fac    fatci  fac  fis    filso  Pal  gin    jgina  gen&lt;br /&gt;
 den    denci  too         t                  estinian           e&lt;br /&gt;
         th        fad    fadni  ord  fit    friti  off  gir    girzu  gro&lt;br /&gt;
 dep    denpa  wai         inary              er                 up&lt;br /&gt;
         t         fag    fagri  fir  fom    fonmo  foa  git    jgita  gui&lt;br /&gt;
 der    dertu  dir         e                  m                  tar&lt;br /&gt;
         t         fak    facki  dis  fon    fonxa  tel  goc    gocti  1E-&lt;br /&gt;
 des    desku  sha         cover              ephone             24&lt;br /&gt;
         ke        fal    farlu  fal  fuk    fukpi  cop  got    gotro  1E2&lt;br /&gt;
 det    detri  dat         l                  y                  4&lt;br /&gt;
         e         fam    fanmo  end  ful    fulta  flo  gub    gubni  pub&lt;br /&gt;
 dib    dirba  dea fan    falnu  sai          at                 lic&lt;br /&gt;
         r                 l          fun    funca  luc  guc    gutci  cub&lt;br /&gt;
 dic    dikca  ele fap    fapro  opp          k                  it&lt;br /&gt;
         ctric             ose        fur    fusra  rot  gud    gundi  ind&lt;br /&gt;
 dig    dirgo  dro far    farna  dir          ten                ustry&lt;br /&gt;
         p                 ection     fuz    fuzme  res  gug    gugde  cou&lt;br /&gt;
 dij    dinju  bui fas    fraso  Fre          ponsible           ntry&lt;br /&gt;
         lding             nch        gac    gapci  gas  guk    guska  scr&lt;br /&gt;
 dik    dikni  reg fat    fatne  rev  gad    gadri  art          ape&lt;br /&gt;
         ular              erse               icle       gum    gunma  joi&lt;br /&gt;
 dil    dilnu  clo fav    farvi  dev  gaf    galfi  mod          ntly&lt;br /&gt;
         ud                elop               ify        gun    gunka  wor&lt;br /&gt;
 dim    dimna  fat fax    fraxu  for  gal    galtu  hig          k&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 give               h          gur    gunro  rol&lt;br /&gt;
 din    jdini  mon faz    fanza  ann  gan    ganra  bro          l&lt;br /&gt;
         ey                oy                 ad         gus    gusni  ill&lt;br /&gt;
 dir    dicra  int feb    febvi  boi  gap    gapru  abo          umine&lt;br /&gt;
         errupt            l                  ve         gut    gunta  att&lt;br /&gt;
 diz    dizlo  low                                               ack&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 guz    guzme  mel jic    jimca  bra  jut    jutsi  spe  kez    kei    end&lt;br /&gt;
         on                nch                cies               abstracti&lt;br /&gt;
 jab    janbe  bel jif    jitfa  fal  juv    ju     tan          on&lt;br /&gt;
         l                 se                 ru         kic    kicne  cus&lt;br /&gt;
 jac    djacu  wat jig    jinga  win          whether            hion&lt;br /&gt;
         er        jij    jijnu  int  jux    juxre  clu  kij    kijno  oxy&lt;br /&gt;
 jad    jadni  ado         uit                msy                gen&lt;br /&gt;
         rn        jik    jikca  soc  kab    karbi  com  kik    ckiku  key&lt;br /&gt;
 jaf    jamfu  foo         ialize             pare       kil    kinli  sha&lt;br /&gt;
         t         jil    jilka  alk  kac    kancu  cou          rp&lt;br /&gt;
 jag    jalge  res         ali                nt         kin    skina  cin&lt;br /&gt;
         ult       jim    jinme  met  kad    kandi  dim          ema&lt;br /&gt;
 jaj    jmaji  gat         al         kaf    ckafi  cof  kir    ckire  gra&lt;br /&gt;
         her       jin    djine  rin          fee                teful&lt;br /&gt;
 jak    jarki  nar         g          kag    kagni  com  kis    kisto  Pak&lt;br /&gt;
         row       jip    jipno  tip          pany               istani&lt;br /&gt;
 jal    janli  col jir    jinru  imm  kaj    kanji  cal  kit    kliti  cla&lt;br /&gt;
         lide              erse               culate             y&lt;br /&gt;
 jam    jamna  war jis    jinsa  cle  kak    klaku  wee  kix    krixa  cry&lt;br /&gt;
 jan    janco  sho         an                 p                  out&lt;br /&gt;
         ulder     jit    jimte  lim  kal    kanla  eye  kob    kobli  cab&lt;br /&gt;
 jap    jaspu  pas         it         kam    ka     pro          bage&lt;br /&gt;
         sport     jiv    jinvi  opi          perty      koj    kojna  cor&lt;br /&gt;
 jar    jdari  fir         ne                 abstract           ner&lt;br /&gt;
         m         jiz    jinzi  inn  kan    kansa  wit  kok    korka  cor&lt;br /&gt;
 jas    jansu  dip         ate                h                  k&lt;br /&gt;
         lomat     jol    joi    in   kap    skapi  pel  kol    kolme  coa&lt;br /&gt;
 jat    janta  acc         a mass             t                  l&lt;br /&gt;
         ount              with       kar    kalri  ope  kom    komcu  com&lt;br /&gt;
 jav    ja     tan jom    jo&#039;e   uni          n                  b&lt;br /&gt;
         ru or             on         kas    kalsa  cha  kon    konju  con&lt;br /&gt;
 jec    jecta  pol jon    jorne  joi          otic               e&lt;br /&gt;
         ity               ned        kat    kalte  hun  kor    korbi  edg&lt;br /&gt;
 jed    jendu  axl jor    jordo  Jor          t                  e&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 danian     kav    kavbu  cap  kos    kosta  coa&lt;br /&gt;
 jef    jeftu  wee jov    jo     tan          ture               t&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 ru iff     kax    kanxe  con  kot    skoto  Sco&lt;br /&gt;
 jeg    jegvo  Jeh jub    jubme  tab          junction           ttish&lt;br /&gt;
         ovist             le         kec    kecti  pit  kub    kubli  cub&lt;br /&gt;
 jel    jelca  bur jud    jundi  att          y                  e&lt;br /&gt;
         n                 entive     kej    ckeji  ash  kuc    kruca  int&lt;br /&gt;
 jem    jenmi  arm juf    jufra  sen          amed               ersect&lt;br /&gt;
         y                 tence      kel    kelci  pla  kuf    kufra  com&lt;br /&gt;
 jen    jenca  sho jug    jungo  Chi          y                  fort&lt;br /&gt;
         ck                nese       kem    ke     sta  kuj    kurji  tak&lt;br /&gt;
 jer    jbera  bor juk    jukni  spi          rt                 e care of&lt;br /&gt;
         row               der                grouping   kuk    kukte  del&lt;br /&gt;
 jes    jesni  nee jul    junla  clo  ken    kenra  can          icious&lt;br /&gt;
         dle               ck                 cer        kul    ckule  sch&lt;br /&gt;
 jet    jetnu  tru jum    jurme  ger  kep    ke&#039;e   end          ool&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 m                  grouping   kum    kumfa  roo&lt;br /&gt;
 jev    je     tan jun    djuno  kno  ker    kerlo  ear          m&lt;br /&gt;
         ru and            w          kes    kensa  out  kun    kunra  min&lt;br /&gt;
 jex    jerxo  Alg jup    jukpa  coo          er space           eral&lt;br /&gt;
         erian             k          ket    ketco  Sou  kup    kuspe  ran&lt;br /&gt;
 jez    jei    tru jur    junri  ser          th                 ge&lt;br /&gt;
         th                ious               American   kur    kurfa  squ&lt;br /&gt;
         abstract  jus    jursa  sev  kev    kevna  cav          are&lt;br /&gt;
 jib    jibri  job         ere                ity        kus    kusru  cru&lt;br /&gt;
                                                                 el&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 kut    kunti  emp lig    sligu  sol  mab    mabru  mam  mij    midju  mid&lt;br /&gt;
         ty                id                 mal                dle&lt;br /&gt;
 kuz    ku&#039;a   int lij    linji  lin  mac    manci  won  mik    mikri  1E-&lt;br /&gt;
         ersection         e                  der                6&lt;br /&gt;
 lab    blabi  whi lik    litki  liq  mad    marde  mor  mil    milti  .00&lt;br /&gt;
         te                uid                als                1&lt;br /&gt;
 lac    lacri  rel lil    livla  fue  maf    makfa  mag  mim    cmima  mem&lt;br /&gt;
         y                 l                  ic                 ber&lt;br /&gt;
 lad    ladru  mil lim    limna  swi  mag    margu  mer  min    jmina  add&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 m                  cury       mip    mipri  sec&lt;br /&gt;
 laf    lafti  lif lin    linsi  cha  maj    marji  mat          ret&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 in                 erial      mir    minra  ref&lt;br /&gt;
 lag    vlagi  vul lir    clira  ear  mak    maksi  mag          lect&lt;br /&gt;
         va                ly                 net        mis    misno  fam&lt;br /&gt;
 laj    klaji  str lis    lisri  sto  mal    mabla  der          ous&lt;br /&gt;
         eet               ry                 ogative    mit    mintu  sam&lt;br /&gt;
 lak    lakse  wax lit    clite  pol  mam    mamta  mot          e&lt;br /&gt;
 lal    lanli  ana         ite                her        miv    jmive  liv&lt;br /&gt;
         lyze      liv    cliva  lea  man    manku  dar          e&lt;br /&gt;
 lam    lamji  adj         ve                 k          mix    mixre  mix&lt;br /&gt;
         acent     lix    plixa  plo  map    mapku  cap          ture&lt;br /&gt;
 lan    lanme  she         w          mar    manri  ref  mob    mo&#039;a   too&lt;br /&gt;
         ep        liz    li&#039;i   exp          erence             few&lt;br /&gt;
 lap    lacpu  pul         erience    mas    malsi  tem  moc    mokca  poi&lt;br /&gt;
         l                 abstract           ple                nt&lt;br /&gt;
 lar    larcu  art lob    lojbo  Loj  mat    mapti  fit  moj    morji  rem&lt;br /&gt;
 las    slasi  pla         banic      mav    mavji  oat          ember&lt;br /&gt;
         stic      loj    logji  log          s          mol    moklu  mou&lt;br /&gt;
 lat    mlatu  cat         ic         max    marxa  mas          th&lt;br /&gt;
 lax    lanxe  bal lol    loldi  flo          h          mom    moi    ord&lt;br /&gt;
         ance              or         meb    mebri  bro          inal&lt;br /&gt;
 laz    lanzu  fam lom    lo&#039;e   the          w                  selbri&lt;br /&gt;
         ily               typical    mec    mleca  les  mon    morna  pat&lt;br /&gt;
 leb    lebna  tak lor    lorxu  fox          s                  tern&lt;br /&gt;
         e         lot    bloti  boa  meg    megdo  1E6  mor    morko  Mor&lt;br /&gt;
 lec    lerci  lat         t          mej    meljo  Mal          occan&lt;br /&gt;
         e         lov    slovo  Sla          aysian     mos    mosra  fri&lt;br /&gt;
 led    mledi  mol         vic        mek    mekso  MEX          ction&lt;br /&gt;
         d         lub    lunbe  bar  mel    melbi  bea  mov    mo&#039;i   spa&lt;br /&gt;
 lej    pleji  pay         e                  utiful             ce motion&lt;br /&gt;
 lek    lenku  col luj    pluja  com  mem    mei    car  muc    smuci  spo&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 plicated           dinal              on&lt;br /&gt;
 lem    le&#039;e   the lum    lumci  was          selbri     mud    mudri  woo&lt;br /&gt;
         stereotyp         h          men    menli  min          d&lt;br /&gt;
         ical      lun    mluni  sat          d          muf    mu&#039;e   poi&lt;br /&gt;
 len    lenjo  len         ellite     mer    merko  Ame          nt-event&lt;br /&gt;
         s         lup    klupe  scr          rican              abstract&lt;br /&gt;
 ler    lerfu  let         ew         mes    mensi  sis  muj    munje  uni&lt;br /&gt;
         teral     lur    lunra  lun          ter                verse&lt;br /&gt;
 let    gletu  cop         ar         met    mentu  min  muk    mukti  mot&lt;br /&gt;
         ulate     lus    lunsa  con          ute                ive&lt;br /&gt;
 lib    libjo  Lib         dense      mex    mexco  Mex  mul    mulno  com&lt;br /&gt;
         yan       lut    pluta  rou          ican               plete&lt;br /&gt;
 lic    litce  lit         te         mib    mi     me   mum    mu     5&lt;br /&gt;
         er        luv    lujvo  aff  mic    mikce  doc  mun    smuni  mea&lt;br /&gt;
 lid    lindi  lig         ix                 tor                ning&lt;br /&gt;
         htning            compound   mid    minde  com  mup    mupli  exa&lt;br /&gt;
 lif    lifri  exp luz    kluza  loo          mand               mple&lt;br /&gt;
         erience           se         mif    mifra  cod  mur    murta  cur&lt;br /&gt;
                                              e                  tain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mus    muslo  Isl nim    ninmu  wom  pam    prami  lov  pip    plipe  lea&lt;br /&gt;
         amic              an                 e                  p&lt;br /&gt;
 mut    mucti  imm nin    cnino  new  pan    panci  odo  pir    pixra  pic&lt;br /&gt;
         aterial   nip    snipa  sti          r                  ture&lt;br /&gt;
 muv    muvdu  mov         cky        pap    panpi  pea  pis    pinsi  pen&lt;br /&gt;
         e         nir    nirna  ner          ce                 cil&lt;br /&gt;
 muz    muzga  mus         ve         par    cpare  cli  pit    plita  pla&lt;br /&gt;
         eum       nis    cnisa  lea          mb                 ne&lt;br /&gt;
 nab    nanba  bre         d          pas    pastu  rob  piv    pi&#039;u   cro&lt;br /&gt;
         ad        nit    cnita  ben          e                  ss&lt;br /&gt;
 nac    namcu  num         eath       pat    pante  pro          product&lt;br /&gt;
         ber       niv    nivji  kni          test       pix    pinxe  dri&lt;br /&gt;
 nad    nandu  dif         t          pav    pa     1            nk&lt;br /&gt;
         ficult    nix    nixli  gir  pax    patxu  pot  piz    pi     dec&lt;br /&gt;
 naf    natfe  den         l          paz    panzi  off          imal&lt;br /&gt;
         y         nol    nobli  nob          spring             point&lt;br /&gt;
 nag    narge  nut         le         peb    penbi  pen  pof    spofu  bro&lt;br /&gt;
 naj    narju  ora non    no     0    pec    pencu  tou          ken&lt;br /&gt;
         nge       nor    no&#039;e   sca          ch         poj    spoja  exp&lt;br /&gt;
 nak    nakni  mal         lar        ped    pendo  fri          lode&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 midpoint           end        pol    polno  Pol&lt;br /&gt;
 nal    na&#039;e   sca         not        pej    preja  spr          ynesian&lt;br /&gt;
         lar       not    notci  mes          ead        pon    ponjo  Jap&lt;br /&gt;
         contrary          sage       pel    pelxu  yel          anese&lt;br /&gt;
 nam    nabmi  pro nuj    snuji  san          low        pop    porpi  bre&lt;br /&gt;
         blem              dwich      pem    pemci  poe          ak&lt;br /&gt;
 nan    snanu  sou nuk    nukni  mag          m          por    porsi  seq&lt;br /&gt;
         th                enta       pen    penmi  mee          uence&lt;br /&gt;
 nar    na     bri nul    nutli  neu          t          pos    ponse  pos&lt;br /&gt;
         di                tral       per    perli  pea          sess&lt;br /&gt;
         negator   num    nurma  rur          r          pot    porto  Por&lt;br /&gt;
 nat    natmi  nat         al         pes    pensi  thi          tuguese&lt;br /&gt;
         ion       nun    nu     eve          nk         puc    pulce  dus&lt;br /&gt;
 nav    nanvi  1E-         nt         pet    petso  1E1          t&lt;br /&gt;
         9                 abstract           5          pud    purdi  gar&lt;br /&gt;
 nax    naxle  can nup    nupre  pro  pev    pe&#039;a   fig          den&lt;br /&gt;
         al                mise               urative    puj    punji  put&lt;br /&gt;
 naz    nazbi  nos nur    snura  sec  pex    pesxu  pas  puk    pluka  ple&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 ure                te                 asant&lt;br /&gt;
 neb    cnebo  nec nut    snuti  acc  pez    pezli  lea  pul    punli  swe&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 idental            f                  lling&lt;br /&gt;
 nel    nelci  fon nuz    nuzba  new  pib    plibu  pub  pum    purmo  pow&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 s                  ic                 der&lt;br /&gt;
 nem    cnemu  rew pab    parbi  rat  pic    picti  1E-  pun    pruni  ela&lt;br /&gt;
         ard               io                 12                 stic&lt;br /&gt;
 nen    nejni  ene pac    palci  evi  pid    pindi  poo  pur    purci  pas&lt;br /&gt;
         rgy               l                  r                  t&lt;br /&gt;
 ner    nenri  in  pad    pandi  pun  pif    pinfu  pri  pus    pu&#039;i   can&lt;br /&gt;
 nib    nibli  nec         ctuate             soner              and has&lt;br /&gt;
         essitate  paf    patfu  fat  pij    prije  wis  put    sputu  spi&lt;br /&gt;
 nic    cnici  ord         her                e                  t&lt;br /&gt;
         erly      pag    pagbu  par  pik    pinka  com  puv    pu&#039;u   pro&lt;br /&gt;
 nid    snidu  sec         t                  ment               cess&lt;br /&gt;
         ond       paj    spaji  sur  pil    pilka  cru          abstract&lt;br /&gt;
 nik    nikle  nic         prise              st         rab    xrabo  Ara&lt;br /&gt;
         kel       pak    palku  pan  pim    pimlu  fea          bic&lt;br /&gt;
 nil    ni     amo         ts                 ther       rac    ralci  del&lt;br /&gt;
         unt       pal    prali  pro  pin    pinta  lev          icate&lt;br /&gt;
         abstract          fit                el         rad    randa  yie&lt;br /&gt;
                                                                 ld&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 raf    rafsi  aff rid    crida  fai  ruk    rusko  Rus  sel    se     2nd&lt;br /&gt;
         ix                ry                 sian               conversio&lt;br /&gt;
 rag    rango  org rif    ricfu  ric  rul    xrula  flo          n&lt;br /&gt;
         an                h                  wer        sen    senpi  dou&lt;br /&gt;
 raj    sraji  ver rig    rigni  dis  rum    runme  mel          bt&lt;br /&gt;
         tical             gusting            t          sep    sepli  apa&lt;br /&gt;
 rak    sraku  scr rij    rijno  sil  run    rutni  art          rt&lt;br /&gt;
         atch              ver                ifact      ser    serti  sta&lt;br /&gt;
 ral    ralju  pri rik    rinka  cau  rup    rupnu  dol          irs&lt;br /&gt;
         ncipal            se                 lar        set    senta  lay&lt;br /&gt;
 ram    ranmi  myt ril    rilti  rhy  rur    sruri  sur          er&lt;br /&gt;
         h                 thm                round      sev    senva  dre&lt;br /&gt;
 ran    ranti  sof rim    rimni  rhy  rus    grusi  gra          am&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 me                 y          sez    sevzi  sel&lt;br /&gt;
 rap    rapli  rep rin    krinu  rea  rut    grute  fru          f&lt;br /&gt;
         eat               son                it         sib    sidbo  ide&lt;br /&gt;
 rar    rarna  nat rip    cripu  bri  ruv    kruvi  cur          a&lt;br /&gt;
         ural              dge                ve         sic    stici  wes&lt;br /&gt;
 ras    grasu  gre rir    rirni  par  rux    pruxi  spi          t&lt;br /&gt;
         ase               ent                rit        sid    stidi  sug&lt;br /&gt;
 rat    ratni  ato ris    rismi  ric  sab    sabji  pro          gest&lt;br /&gt;
         m                 e                  vide       sig    sigja  cig&lt;br /&gt;
 rav    ragve  acr rit    brito  Bri  sac    stace  hon          ar&lt;br /&gt;
         oss               tish               est        sij    skiji  ski&lt;br /&gt;
 rax    ranxi  iro riv    rivbi  avo  sad    snada  suc  sik    silka  sil&lt;br /&gt;
         ny                id                 ceed               k&lt;br /&gt;
 raz    brazo  Bra rix    trixe  beh  sag    sanga  sin  sil    siclu  whi&lt;br /&gt;
         zilian            ind                g                  stle&lt;br /&gt;
 reb    rebla  tai rod    broda  pre  saj    sanji  con  sim    simxu  mut&lt;br /&gt;
         l                 dicate             scious             ual&lt;br /&gt;
 rec    rectu  mea         var 1      sak    sakci  suc  sin    tsina  sta&lt;br /&gt;
         t         rog    romge  chr          k                  ge&lt;br /&gt;
 red    bredi  rea         ome        sal    sakli  sli  sip    sipna  sle&lt;br /&gt;
         dy        rok    rokci  roc          de                 ep&lt;br /&gt;
 ref    krefu  rec         k          sam    skami  com  sir    sirji  str&lt;br /&gt;
         ur        rol    ro     eac          puter              aight&lt;br /&gt;
 rej    vreji  rec         h          san    spano  Spa  sis    sisku  see&lt;br /&gt;
         ord       rom    roi    qua          nish               k&lt;br /&gt;
 rek    greku  fra         ntified    sap    sampu  sim  sit    sitna  cit&lt;br /&gt;
         me                tense              ple                e&lt;br /&gt;
 rel    re     2   ron    ropno  Eur  sar    slari  sou  siv    sivni  pri&lt;br /&gt;
 rem    remna  hum         opean              r                  vate&lt;br /&gt;
         an        ror    rorci  pro  sas    srasu  gra  six    sirxo  Syr&lt;br /&gt;
 ren    trene  tra         create             ss                 ian&lt;br /&gt;
         in        ros    prosa  pro  sat    sakta  sug  siz    si&#039;o   con&lt;br /&gt;
 rep    crepu  har         se                 ar                 cept&lt;br /&gt;
         vest      rot    rotsu  thi  sav    savru  noi          abstract&lt;br /&gt;
 rer    renro  thr         ck                 se         sob    sobde  soy&lt;br /&gt;
         ow        roz    rozgu  ros  sax    sarxe  har          a&lt;br /&gt;
 res    respa  rep         e                  monious    soc    sorcu  sto&lt;br /&gt;
         tile      rub    ruble  wea  saz    sazri  ope          re&lt;br /&gt;
 ret    preti  que         k                  rate       sod    sodva  sod&lt;br /&gt;
         stion     ruc    pruce  pro  seb    steba  fru          a&lt;br /&gt;
 rev    renvi  sur         cess               stration   sof    softo  Sov&lt;br /&gt;
         vive      rud    drudi  roo  sec    senci  sne          iet&lt;br /&gt;
 rib    cribe  bea         f                  eze        sog    sorgu  sor&lt;br /&gt;
         r         ruf    rufsu  rou  sed    stedu  hea          ghum&lt;br /&gt;
 ric    tricu  tre         gh                 d          soj    so&#039;a   alm&lt;br /&gt;
         e         ruj    kruji  cre  sef    selfu  ser          ost all&lt;br /&gt;
                           am                 ve&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 sol    solri  sol tap    stapa  ste  tis    tisna  fil  vas    vasru  con&lt;br /&gt;
         ar                p                  l                  tain&lt;br /&gt;
 som    sombo  sow tar    tarci  sta  tit    titla  swe  vat    vamtu  vom&lt;br /&gt;
 son    sonci  sol         r                  et                 it&lt;br /&gt;
         dier      tas    tansi  pan  tiv    tivni  tel  vax    vasxu  bre&lt;br /&gt;
 sop    so&#039;e   mos tat    tatru  bre          evision            athe&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 ast        tix    tixnu  dau  vaz    va     the&lt;br /&gt;
 sor    so&#039;i   man tav    tavla  tal          ghter              re at&lt;br /&gt;
         y                 k          tiz    stizu  cha  vef    venfu  rev&lt;br /&gt;
 sos    so&#039;o   sev tax    tanxe  box          ir                 enge&lt;br /&gt;
         eral      taz    ta     tha  toc    troci  try  vel    ve     4th&lt;br /&gt;
 sot    so&#039;u   few         t there    tod    toldi  but          conversio&lt;br /&gt;
 sov    sovda  egg teb    ctebi  lip          terfly             n&lt;br /&gt;
 soz    so     9   tec    steci  spe  tog    tonga  ton  ven    vecnu  sel&lt;br /&gt;
 sub    sfubu  div         cific              e                  l&lt;br /&gt;
         e         ted    terdi  ear  tok    toknu  ove  ver    verba  chi&lt;br /&gt;
 suc    sucta  abs         th                 n                  ld&lt;br /&gt;
         tract     tef    tenfa  exp  tol    to&#039;e   pol  ves    vensa  spr&lt;br /&gt;
 sud    sudga  dry         onential           ar                 ing&lt;br /&gt;
 sug    sunga  gar teg    tengu  tex          opposite   vib    vibna  vag&lt;br /&gt;
         lic               ture       ton    torni  twi          ina&lt;br /&gt;
 suj    sumji  sum tek    cteki  tax          st         vic    vimcu  rem&lt;br /&gt;
 suk    suksa  sud tel    stela  loc  tor    tordu  sho          ove&lt;br /&gt;
         den               k                  rt         vid    vindu  poi&lt;br /&gt;
 sul    sunla  woo tem    temci  tim  tub    tunba  sib          son&lt;br /&gt;
         l                 e                  ling       vif    vifne  fre&lt;br /&gt;
 sum    sumti  arg ten    tcena  str  tuf    tu     tha          sh&lt;br /&gt;
         ument             etch               t yonder   vij    vinji  air&lt;br /&gt;
 sun    stuna  eas tep    terpa  fea  tug    tugni  agr          plane&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 r                  ee         vik    viknu  vis&lt;br /&gt;
 sup    su&#039;e   at  ter    te     3rd  tuj    tujli  tul          cous&lt;br /&gt;
         most              conversio          ip         vil    vlile  vio&lt;br /&gt;
 sur    surla  rel         n          tuk    tunka  cop          lent&lt;br /&gt;
         ax        tet    terto  1E1          per        vim    vikmi  exc&lt;br /&gt;
 sut    sutra  fas         2          tul    tunlo  swa          rete&lt;br /&gt;
         t         tib    tinbe  obe          llow       vin    jvinu  vie&lt;br /&gt;
 suv    su&#039;u   uns         y          tum    tumla  lan          w&lt;br /&gt;
         pecif     tic    tcica  dec          d          vip    vipsi  dep&lt;br /&gt;
         abstract          eive       tun    tunta  pok          uty&lt;br /&gt;
 suz    su&#039;o   at  tid    tcidu  rea          e          vir    vidru  vir&lt;br /&gt;
         least             d          tup    tuple  leg          us&lt;br /&gt;
 tab    tabno  car tif    ti     thi  tur    stura  str  vis    viska  see&lt;br /&gt;
         bon               s here             ucture     vit    vitci  irr&lt;br /&gt;
 tac    tance  ton tig    tigni  per  tut    tutra  ter          egular&lt;br /&gt;
         gue               form               ritory     viz    vi     her&lt;br /&gt;
 tad    tadni  stu tij    tilju  hea  tuz    stuzi  sit          e at&lt;br /&gt;
         dy                vy                 e          vok    voksa  voi&lt;br /&gt;
 taf    taxfu  gar tik    stika  adj  vab    vanbi  env          ce&lt;br /&gt;
         ment              ust                ironment   vol    vofli  fli&lt;br /&gt;
 tag    tagji  snu til    tcila  det  vac    vanci  eve          ght&lt;br /&gt;
         g                 ail                ning       von    vo     4&lt;br /&gt;
 taj    tamji  thu tim    tcima  wea  vaj    vajni  imp  vor    vorme  doo&lt;br /&gt;
         mb                ther               ortant             r&lt;br /&gt;
 tak    staku  cer tin    tirna  hea  val    valsi  wor  vud    vrude  vir&lt;br /&gt;
         amic              r                  d                  tue&lt;br /&gt;
 tal    talsa  cha tip    tikpa  kic  vam    vamji  val  vur    vukro  Ukr&lt;br /&gt;
         llenge            k                  ue                 ainian&lt;br /&gt;
 tam    tarmi  sha tir    tirse  iro  van    vanju  win  vus    vrusi  tas&lt;br /&gt;
         pe                n                  e                  te&lt;br /&gt;
 tan    tsani  sky                    var    vacri  air&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 vuz    vu     yon xol    xotli  hot  zug    zungi  gui  cmo    cmoni  moa&lt;br /&gt;
         der at            el                 lt                 n&lt;br /&gt;
 xab    xadba  hal xub    xruba  buc  zuk    zukte  act  cmu    jicmu  bas&lt;br /&gt;
         f                 kwheat     zul    zunle  lef          is&lt;br /&gt;
 xac    xarci  wea xuk    xruki  tur          t          cna    canpa  sho&lt;br /&gt;
         pon               key        zum    zu&#039;o   act          vel&lt;br /&gt;
 xad    xadni  bod xul    xutla  smo          ivity      cne    cenba  var&lt;br /&gt;
         y                 oth                abstract           y&lt;br /&gt;
 xag    xamgu  goo xum    xukmi  che  zun    zunti  int  cni    cinmo  emo&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 mical              erfere             tion&lt;br /&gt;
 xaj    xarju  pig xun    xunre  red  zut    zutse  sit  cno    condi  dee&lt;br /&gt;
 xak    xaksu  use xur    xurdo  Urd                             p&lt;br /&gt;
         up                i                             cnu    macnu  man&lt;br /&gt;
 xal    xalka  alc xus    xusra  ass                             ual&lt;br /&gt;
         ohol              ert        bla    blanu  blu  cpa    cpacu  get&lt;br /&gt;
 xam    xajmi  fun zac    zarci  mar          e          cpe    cpedu  req&lt;br /&gt;
         ny                ket        ble    ruble  wea          uest&lt;br /&gt;
 xan    xance  han zag    zargu  but          k          cpi    cipni  bir&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 tock       bli    bliku  blo          d&lt;br /&gt;
 xap    xampo  amp zaj    zajba  gym          ck         cpu    lacpu  pul&lt;br /&gt;
         ere               nast       blo    bloti  boa          l&lt;br /&gt;
 xar    xanri  ima zal    zalvi  gri          t          cra    crane  fro&lt;br /&gt;
         ginary            nd         blu    ciblu  blo          nt&lt;br /&gt;
 xas    xamsi  sea zan    zabna  fav          od         cre    certu  exp&lt;br /&gt;
 xat    xatsi  1E-         orable     bra    barda  big          ert&lt;br /&gt;
         18        zar    zanru  app  bre    bredi  rea  cri    cirko  los&lt;br /&gt;
 xav    xa     6           rove               dy                 e&lt;br /&gt;
 xaz    xazdo  Asi zas    zasni  tem  bri    bridi  pre  cro    cortu  pai&lt;br /&gt;
         atic              porary             dicate             n&lt;br /&gt;
 xeb    xebro  Heb zat    zasti  exi  bro    xebro  Heb  cru    curmi  let&lt;br /&gt;
         rew               st                 rew        cta    catlu  loo&lt;br /&gt;
 xed    xendo  kin zaz    za&#039;i   sta  bru    burcu  bru          k&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 te                 sh         cte    nicte  nig&lt;br /&gt;
 xej    xedja  jaw         abstract   cfa    cfari  ini          ht&lt;br /&gt;
 xek    xekri  bla zel    ze     7            tiate      cti    citka  eat&lt;br /&gt;
         ck        zen    zenba  inc  cfi    cfila  fla  cto    xecto  100&lt;br /&gt;
 xel    xe     5th         rease              w          ctu    ctuca  tea&lt;br /&gt;
         conversio zep    zepti  1E-  cfu    ricfu  ric          ch&lt;br /&gt;
         n                 21                 h          dja    cidja  foo&lt;br /&gt;
 xen    xebni  hat zer    zekri  cri  cka    ckana  bed          d&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 me         cke    ckeji  ash  dje    djedi  ful&lt;br /&gt;
 xer    xenru  reg zet    zetro  1E2          amed               l day&lt;br /&gt;
         ret               1          cki    ciksi  exp  dji    djica  des&lt;br /&gt;
 xes    xelso  Gre zev    ze&#039;o   out          lain               ire&lt;br /&gt;
         ek                ward       cko    cokcu  soa  djo    sadjo  Sau&lt;br /&gt;
 xet    xecto  100 zif    zifre  fre          k up               di&lt;br /&gt;
 xex    xexso  1E1         e          cku    cukta  boo  dju    sidju  hel&lt;br /&gt;
         8         zin    zinki  zin          k                  p&lt;br /&gt;
 xil    xislu  whe         c          cla    clani  lon  dra    drani  cor&lt;br /&gt;
         el        zip    dzipo  Ant          g                  rect&lt;br /&gt;
 xim    xinmo  ink         arctican   cli    cilre  lea  dre    derxi  hea&lt;br /&gt;
 xin    xindo  Hin zir    zirpu  pur          rn                 p&lt;br /&gt;
         di                ple        clu    culno  ful  dri    badri  sad&lt;br /&gt;
 xip    xispo  His ziv    zivle  inv          l          dro    cidro  hyd&lt;br /&gt;
         panic             est        cma    cmalu  sma          rogen&lt;br /&gt;
 xir    xirma  hor zon    zo&#039;a   tan          ll         dru    drudi  roo&lt;br /&gt;
         se                gential    cme    cmene  nam          f&lt;br /&gt;
 xis    xriso  Chr         to                 e          dza    da     som&lt;br /&gt;
         istian    zor    zo&#039;i   inw  cmi    cmima  mem          ething 1&lt;br /&gt;
                           ard                ber&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 dze    dzena  eld jge    jgena  kno  ple    pelji  pap  sni    sinxa  sig&lt;br /&gt;
         er                t                  er                 n&lt;br /&gt;
 dzi    dizlo  low jgi    jgira  pri  pli    pilno  use  sno    masno  slo&lt;br /&gt;
 dzu    cadzu  wal         de         plo    polje  fol          w&lt;br /&gt;
         k         jma    jamfu  foo          d          snu    casnu  dis&lt;br /&gt;
 fla    flalu  law         t          plu    daplu  isl          cuss&lt;br /&gt;
 fle    flecu  flo jme    jemna  gem          and        spa    spati  pla&lt;br /&gt;
         w         jmi    jimpe  und  pra    cupra  pro          nt&lt;br /&gt;
 fli    fliba  fai         erstand            duce       spe    speni  mar&lt;br /&gt;
         l         jva    javni  rul  pre    prenu  per          ried&lt;br /&gt;
 flo    foldi  fie         e                  son        spi    spisa  pie&lt;br /&gt;
         ld        jve    je     tan  pri    prina  pri          ce&lt;br /&gt;
 flu    fulta  flo         ru and             nt         spo    daspo  des&lt;br /&gt;
         at        jvi    jivna  com  pro    fapro  opp          troy&lt;br /&gt;
 fra    frati  rea         pete               ose        spu    spuda  rep&lt;br /&gt;
         ct        jvo    lujvo  aff  pru    purci  pas          ly&lt;br /&gt;
 fre    ferti  fer         ix                 t          sra    sarji  sup&lt;br /&gt;
         tile              compound   sfa    sfasa  pun          port&lt;br /&gt;
 fri    lifri  exp kla    klama  com          ish        sre    srera  err&lt;br /&gt;
         erience           e          sfe    sefta  sur  sri    dasri  rib&lt;br /&gt;
 fro    forca  for kle    klesi  cla          face               bon&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 ss         sfo    sfofa  sof  sro    sorcu  sto&lt;br /&gt;
 fru    frumu  fro kli    klina  cle          a                  re&lt;br /&gt;
         wn                ar         sfu    sufti  hoo  sru    sruri  sur&lt;br /&gt;
 gla    glare  hot klo    diklo  loc          f                  round&lt;br /&gt;
 gle    gletu  cop         al         ska    skari  col  sta    stali  rem&lt;br /&gt;
         ulate     klu    kulnu  cul          or                 ain&lt;br /&gt;
 gli    glico  Eng         ture       ske    saske  sci  ste    liste  lis&lt;br /&gt;
         lish      kra    krasi  sou          ence               t&lt;br /&gt;
 glu    gluta  glo         rce        ski    skicu  des  sti    sisti  cea&lt;br /&gt;
         ve        kre    kerfa  hai          cribe              se&lt;br /&gt;
 gra    grake  gra         r          sko    skori  cor  sto    stodi  con&lt;br /&gt;
         m         kri    krici  bel          d                  stant&lt;br /&gt;
 gre    pagre  pas         ieve       sku    cusku  exp  stu    stuzi  sit&lt;br /&gt;
         s through kro    korcu  ben          ress               e&lt;br /&gt;
 gri    girzu  gro         t          sla    salci  cel  tca    tcadu  cit&lt;br /&gt;
         up        kru    kruvi  cur          ebrate             y&lt;br /&gt;
 gru    gurni  gra         ve         sle    selci  cel  tce    mutce  muc&lt;br /&gt;
         in        mla    mlana  sid          l                  h&lt;br /&gt;
 jba    jbari  ber         e          sli    slilu  osc  tci    tutci  too&lt;br /&gt;
         ry        mle    melbi  bea          illate             l&lt;br /&gt;
 jbe    jbena  bor         utiful     slo    solji  gol  tco    ketco  Sou&lt;br /&gt;
         n         mli    milxe  mil          d                  th&lt;br /&gt;
 jbi    jibni  nea         d          slu    sluji  mus          American&lt;br /&gt;
         r         mlo    molki  mil          cle        tcu    nitcu  nee&lt;br /&gt;
 jbo    lojbo  Loj         l          sma    smaji  qui          d&lt;br /&gt;
         banic     mlu    simlu  see          et         tra    tarti  beh&lt;br /&gt;
 jbu    jubme  tab         m          sme    semto  Sem          ave&lt;br /&gt;
         le        mra    marbi  she          itic       tre    mitre  met&lt;br /&gt;
 jda    lijda  rel         lter       smi    simsa  sim          er&lt;br /&gt;
         igion     mre    merli  mea          ilar       tri    trina  att&lt;br /&gt;
 jde    kajde  war         sure       smo    smoka  soc          ract&lt;br /&gt;
         n         mri    mrilu  mai          k          tro    jitro  con&lt;br /&gt;
 jdi    jdice  dec         l          smu    smuni  mea          trol&lt;br /&gt;
         ide       mro    morsi  dea          ning       tru    turni  gov&lt;br /&gt;
 jdu    jduli  jel         d          sna    sance  sou          ern&lt;br /&gt;
         ly        mru    mruli  ham          nd         tsa    tsali  str&lt;br /&gt;
 jga    jganu  ang         mer        sne    senva  dre          ong&lt;br /&gt;
         le        pla    platu  pla          am         tse    zutse  sit&lt;br /&gt;
                           n&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 tsi    tsiju  see zmu    zumri  mai  bu&#039;i   bu     wor  cu&#039;u   cuntu  aff&lt;br /&gt;
         d                 ze                 d to               air&lt;br /&gt;
 tsu    rotsu  thi zva    zvati  at           lerfu      da&#039;a   damba  fig&lt;br /&gt;
         ck                           bu&#039;o   budjo  Bud          ht&lt;br /&gt;
 vla    valsi  wor                            dhist      da&#039;e   danre  pre&lt;br /&gt;
         d                            bu&#039;u   bukpu  clo          ssure&lt;br /&gt;
 vle    zivle  inv ba&#039;a   barna  mar          th         da&#039;i   darxi  hit&lt;br /&gt;
         est               k          ca&#039;a   cabra  app  da&#039;o   darno  far&lt;br /&gt;
 vli    vlipa  pow ba&#039;e   balre  bla          aratus     da&#039;u   danlu  ani&lt;br /&gt;
         erful             de         ca&#039;e   catke  sho          mal&lt;br /&gt;
 vra    vraga  lev ba&#039;i   banli  gre          ve         dai    dacti  obj&lt;br /&gt;
         er                at         ca&#039;i   catni  aut          ect&lt;br /&gt;
 vre    vreta  rec ba&#039;o   banro  gro          hority     dau    darlu  arg&lt;br /&gt;
         lining            w          ca&#039;o   canko  win          ue&lt;br /&gt;
 vri    virnu  bra ba&#039;u   bacru  utt          dow        de&#039;a   denpa  wai&lt;br /&gt;
         ve                er         ca&#039;u   canlu  spa          t&lt;br /&gt;
 vro    vorme  doo bai    bapli  for          ce         de&#039;i   denci  too&lt;br /&gt;
         r                 ce         cai    carmi  int          th&lt;br /&gt;
 vru    savru  noi bau    bangu  lan          ense       de&#039;o   delno  can&lt;br /&gt;
         se                guage      cau    claxu  wit          dela&lt;br /&gt;
 xla    xlali  bad be&#039;a   bersa  son          hout       de&#039;u   dertu  dir&lt;br /&gt;
 xle    naxle  can be&#039;e   bende  cre  ce&#039;a   cecla  lau          t&lt;br /&gt;
         al                w                  ncher      dei    djedi  ful&lt;br /&gt;
 xli    nixli  gir be&#039;i   benji  tra  ce&#039;i   cteki  tax          l day&lt;br /&gt;
         l                 nsfer      ce&#039;o   ce&#039;o   in   di&#039;a   jdima  pri&lt;br /&gt;
 xlu    xlura  inf be&#039;o   bemro  Nor          a                  ce&lt;br /&gt;
         luence            th                 sequence   di&#039;e   dirce  rad&lt;br /&gt;
 xra    pixra  pic         American           with               iate&lt;br /&gt;
         ture      be&#039;u   betfu  abd  ce&#039;u   cecmu  com  di&#039;i   jdini  mon&lt;br /&gt;
 xre    mixre  mix         omen               munity             ey&lt;br /&gt;
         ture      bei    bevri  car  cei    cevni  god  di&#039;o   dinko  nai&lt;br /&gt;
 xri    maxri  whe         ry         ci&#039;a   ciska  wri          l&lt;br /&gt;
         at        bi&#039;a   bilma  ill          te         di&#039;u   dinju  bui&lt;br /&gt;
 xru    xruti  ret bi&#039;e   brife  bre  ci&#039;e   ciste  sys          lding&lt;br /&gt;
         urn               eze                tem        do&#039;i   donri  day&lt;br /&gt;
 zba    zbasu  mak bi&#039;i   jbini  bet  ci&#039;i   cinri  int          time&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 ween               eresting   do&#039;o   dotco  Ger&lt;br /&gt;
 zbe    zbepi  ped bi&#039;o   binxo  bec  ci&#039;o   citno  you          man&lt;br /&gt;
         estal             ome                ng         doi    do     you&lt;br /&gt;
 zbi    nazbi  nos bi&#039;u   bitmu  wal  ci&#039;u   ckilu  sca  du&#039;a   dunda  giv&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 l                  le                 e&lt;br /&gt;
 zda    zdani  nes bo&#039;a   boxna  wav  co&#039;a   co&#039;a   ini  du&#039;e   dukse  exc&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 e                  tiative            ess&lt;br /&gt;
 zdi    zdile  amu bo&#039;e   brode  pre  co&#039;e   co&#039;e   uns  du&#039;i   dunli  equ&lt;br /&gt;
         sing              dicate             pecif              al&lt;br /&gt;
 zdo    xazdo  Asi         var 2              bridi      du&#039;o   du     sam&lt;br /&gt;
         atic      bo&#039;i   botpi  bot  co&#039;i   cmoni  moa          e&lt;br /&gt;
 zga    zgana  obs         tle                n                  identity&lt;br /&gt;
         erve      bo&#039;o   boxfo  she  co&#039;u   co&#039;u   ces          as&lt;br /&gt;
 zgi    zgike  mus         et                 sative     du&#039;u   dunku  ang&lt;br /&gt;
         ic        bo&#039;u   bongu  bon  coi    condi  dee          uish&lt;br /&gt;
 zgu    rozgu  ros         e                  p          fa&#039;a   farna  dir&lt;br /&gt;
         e         boi    bolci  bal  cu&#039;a   cuxna  cho          ection&lt;br /&gt;
 zma    zmadu  mor         l                  ose        fa&#039;e   fatne  rev&lt;br /&gt;
         e         bu&#039;a   bruna  bro  cu&#039;e   ckule  sch          erse&lt;br /&gt;
 zme    guzme  mel         ther               ool        fa&#039;i   facki  dis&lt;br /&gt;
         on        bu&#039;e   bunre  bro  cu&#039;i   cumki  pos          cover&lt;br /&gt;
 zmi    zmiku  aut         wn                 sible      fa&#039;o   fanmo  end&lt;br /&gt;
         omatic                       cu&#039;o   cunso  ran  fa&#039;u   farlu  fal&lt;br /&gt;
                                              dom                l&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 fai    fatri  dis gi&#039;e   zgike  mus  ju&#039;i   jundi  att  ku&#039;u   ckunu  con&lt;br /&gt;
         tribute           ic                 entive             ifer&lt;br /&gt;
 fau    fasnu  eve gi&#039;o   gigdo  1E9  ju&#039;o   djuno  kno  la&#039;a   lasna  fas&lt;br /&gt;
         nt        gi&#039;u   gismu  roo          w                  ten&lt;br /&gt;
 fe&#039;a   fenra  cra         t word     ka&#039;a   katna  cut  la&#039;e   lakne  pro&lt;br /&gt;
         ck        gu&#039;a   gunka  wor  ka&#039;e   kakne  abl          bable&lt;br /&gt;
 fe&#039;i   fetsi  fem         k                  e          la&#039;i   lamji  adj&lt;br /&gt;
         ale       gu&#039;e   gugde  cou  ka&#039;i   krati  rep          acent&lt;br /&gt;
 fe&#039;o   fenso  sew         ntry               resent     la&#039;o   latmo  Lat&lt;br /&gt;
 fe&#039;u   fengu  ang gu&#039;i   gusni  ill  ka&#039;o   kanro  hea          in&lt;br /&gt;
         ry                umine              lthy       la&#039;u   lalxu  lak&lt;br /&gt;
 fei    fepni  cen gu&#039;o   gunro  rol  ka&#039;u   kantu  qua          e&lt;br /&gt;
         t                 l                  ntum       lai    klani  qua&lt;br /&gt;
 fi&#039;a   cfika  fic ja&#039;a   jatna  cap  kai    ckaji  qua          ntity&lt;br /&gt;
         tion              tain               lity       lau    cladu  lou&lt;br /&gt;
 fi&#039;e   finpe  fis ja&#039;e   jalge  res  kau    kampu  com          d&lt;br /&gt;
         h                 ult                mon        le&#039;a   lebna  tak&lt;br /&gt;
 fi&#039;i   finti  inv ja&#039;i   jadni  ado  ke&#039;a   kevna  cav          e&lt;br /&gt;
         ent               rn                 ity        le&#039;i   pleji  pay&lt;br /&gt;
 fi&#039;o   friko  Afr ja&#039;o   jarco  sho  ke&#039;e   ke&#039;e   end  le&#039;o   lenjo  len&lt;br /&gt;
         ican              w                  grouping           s&lt;br /&gt;
 fi&#039;u   cfipu  con ja&#039;u   jgalu  cla  ke&#039;i   kecti  pit  le&#039;u   lerfu  let&lt;br /&gt;
         fusing            w                  y                  teral&lt;br /&gt;
 fo&#039;a   fo&#039;a   it- jai    jgari  gra  ke&#039;o   kelvo  kel  lei    klesi  cla&lt;br /&gt;
         6                 sp                 vin                ss&lt;br /&gt;
 fo&#039;e   fo&#039;e   it- jau    djacu  wat  ke&#039;u   krefu  rec  li&#039;a   cliva  lea&lt;br /&gt;
         7                 er                 ur                 ve&lt;br /&gt;
 fo&#039;i   fo&#039;i   it- je&#039;a   jecta  pol  kei    kelci  pla  li&#039;e   lidne  pre&lt;br /&gt;
         8                 ity                y                  cede&lt;br /&gt;
 fo&#039;o   fonmo  foa je&#039;e   jetce  jet  ki&#039;a   krixa  cry  li&#039;i   linji  lin&lt;br /&gt;
         m         je&#039;i   jersi  cha          out                e&lt;br /&gt;
 foi    foldi  fie         se         ki&#039;e   kicne  cus  li&#039;o   linto  lig&lt;br /&gt;
         ld        je&#039;o   jegvo  Jeh          hion               htweight&lt;br /&gt;
 fu&#039;a   funca  luc         ovist      ki&#039;i   ckini  rel  li&#039;u   litru  tra&lt;br /&gt;
         k         je&#039;u   jetnu  tru          ated               vel&lt;br /&gt;
 fu&#039;e   fuzme  res         e          ki&#039;o   kilto  100  lo&#039;i   bloti  boa&lt;br /&gt;
         ponsible  jei    jenmi  arm          0                  t&lt;br /&gt;
 fu&#039;i   fukpi  cop         y          ki&#039;u   krinu  rea  lo&#039;o   slovo  Sla&lt;br /&gt;
         y         ji&#039;a   jinga  win          son                vic&lt;br /&gt;
 ga&#039;a   grana  rod ji&#039;e   jmive  liv  ko&#039;a   kojna  cor  lo&#039;u   lorxu  fox&lt;br /&gt;
 ga&#039;e   ganse  sen         e                  ner        loi    loldi  flo&lt;br /&gt;
         se        ji&#039;i   jinvi  opi  ko&#039;e   kolme  coa          or&lt;br /&gt;
 ga&#039;i   galfi  mod         ne                 l          lu&#039;a   pluta  rou&lt;br /&gt;
         ify       ji&#039;o   jipno  tip  ko&#039;i   kobli  cab          te&lt;br /&gt;
 ga&#039;o   ganlo  clo ji&#039;u   jvinu  vie          bage       lu&#039;e   klupe  scr&lt;br /&gt;
         sed               w          ko&#039;o   skoto  Sco          ew&lt;br /&gt;
 ga&#039;u   galtu  hig jo&#039;e   jorne  joi          ttish      lu&#039;i   lumci  was&lt;br /&gt;
         h                 ned        ko&#039;u   konju  con          h&lt;br /&gt;
 gai    gacri  cov jo&#039;o   jordo  Jor          e          lu&#039;o   lubno  Leb&lt;br /&gt;
         er                danian     koi    korbi  edg          anese&lt;br /&gt;
 gau    gasnu  do  jo&#039;u   jo&#039;u   in           e          ma&#039;a   cmana  mou&lt;br /&gt;
 ge&#039;a   gerna  gra         common     ku&#039;a   kumfa  roo          ntain&lt;br /&gt;
         mmar              with               m          ma&#039;e   marce  veh&lt;br /&gt;
 ge&#039;o   gento  Arg joi    joi    in   ku&#039;e   kuspe  ran          icle&lt;br /&gt;
         entinian          a mass             ge         ma&#039;i   masti  mon&lt;br /&gt;
 ge&#039;u   gerku  dog         with       ku&#039;i   kurji  tak          th&lt;br /&gt;
 gei    gleki  hap ju&#039;a   jufra  sen          e care of  ma&#039;o   cmavo  str&lt;br /&gt;
         py                tence      ku&#039;o   skuro  gro          ucture&lt;br /&gt;
 gi&#039;a   gidva  gui ju&#039;e   julne  net          ove                word&lt;br /&gt;
         de&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ma&#039;u   makcu  mat nai    natmi  nat  pi&#039;a   pilka  cru  ri&#039;e   rirxe  riv&lt;br /&gt;
         ure               ion                st                 er&lt;br /&gt;
 mai    marji  mat nau    nanmu  man  pi&#039;e   plipe  lea  ri&#039;i   ritli  rit&lt;br /&gt;
         erial     ne&#039;i   nenri  in           p                  e&lt;br /&gt;
 mau    zmadu  mor ne&#039;o   cnebo  nec  pi&#039;i   pilji  mul  ri&#039;o   crino  gre&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 k                  tiply              en&lt;br /&gt;
 me&#039;a   mleca  les ne&#039;u   cnemu  rew  pi&#039;o   pipno  pia  ri&#039;u   rinju  res&lt;br /&gt;
         s                 ard                no                 train&lt;br /&gt;
 me&#039;e   cmene  nam nei    nelci  fon  pi&#039;u   pimlu  fea  ro&#039;a   prosa  pro&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 d                  ther               se&lt;br /&gt;
 me&#039;i   mensi  sis ni&#039;a   cnita  ben  po&#039;a   spoja  exp  ro&#039;i   rokci  roc&lt;br /&gt;
         ter               eath               lode               k&lt;br /&gt;
 me&#039;o   mekso  MEX ni&#039;e   nilce  fur  po&#039;e   ponse  pos  ro&#039;o   ropno  Eur&lt;br /&gt;
 me&#039;u   mentu  min         niture             sess               opean&lt;br /&gt;
         ute       ni&#039;i   nibli  nec  po&#039;i   porpi  bre  ro&#039;u   rotsu  thi&lt;br /&gt;
 mei    mei    car         essitate           ak                 ck&lt;br /&gt;
         dinal     ni&#039;o   cnino  new  po&#039;o   ponjo  Jap  roi    roi    qua&lt;br /&gt;
         selbri    ni&#039;u   ninmu  wom          anese              ntified&lt;br /&gt;
 mi&#039;a   cmila  lau         an         po&#039;u   spofu  bro          tense&lt;br /&gt;
         gh        no&#039;e   no&#039;e   sca          ken        ru&#039;a   sruma  ass&lt;br /&gt;
 mi&#039;e   minde  com         lar        poi    porsi  seq          ume&lt;br /&gt;
         mand              midpoint           uence      ru&#039;e   pruce  pro&lt;br /&gt;
 mi&#039;i   minji  mac         not        pu&#039;a   pluka  ple          cess&lt;br /&gt;
         hine      no&#039;i   nobli  nob          asant      ru&#039;i   pruxi  spi&lt;br /&gt;
 mi&#039;o   misno  fam         le         pu&#039;e   pulce  dus          rit&lt;br /&gt;
         ous       noi    notci  mes          t          ru&#039;o   rusko  Rus&lt;br /&gt;
 mi&#039;u   mintu  sam         sage       pu&#039;i   punji  put          sian&lt;br /&gt;
         e         nu&#039;a   snura  sec  pu&#039;o   purmo  pow  ru&#039;u   rupnu  dol&lt;br /&gt;
 mo&#039;a   morna  pat         ure                der                lar&lt;br /&gt;
         tern      nu&#039;e   nupre  pro  pu&#039;u   sputu  spi  sa&#039;a   sanga  sin&lt;br /&gt;
 mo&#039;i   morji  rem         mise               t                  g&lt;br /&gt;
         ember     nu&#039;i   nutli  neu  ra&#039;a   srana  per  sa&#039;e   satre  str&lt;br /&gt;
 mo&#039;o   molro  mol         tral               tain               oke&lt;br /&gt;
         e         nu&#039;o   nu&#039;o   can  ra&#039;e   ralte  ret  sa&#039;i   sanli  sta&lt;br /&gt;
 mo&#039;u   moklu  mou         but has            ain                nd&lt;br /&gt;
         th                not        ra&#039;i   ranji  con  sa&#039;o   salpo  slo&lt;br /&gt;
 moi    moi    ord pa&#039;a   pacna  hop          tinue              pe&lt;br /&gt;
         inal              e          ra&#039;o   radno  rad  sa&#039;u   sarcu  nec&lt;br /&gt;
         selbri    pa&#039;e   prane  per          ian                essary&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;a   murta  cur         fect       ra&#039;u   raktu  tro  sai    sanmi  mea&lt;br /&gt;
         tain      pa&#039;i   prami  lov          uble               l&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;e   munje  uni         e          rai    traji  sup  sau    slabu  old&lt;br /&gt;
         verse     pa&#039;o   panlo  sli          erlative   se&#039;a   setca  ins&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;i   mukti  mot         ce         rau    gradu  uni          ert&lt;br /&gt;
         ive       pa&#039;u   patfu  fat          t          se&#039;i   sevzi  sel&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;o   mulno  com         her        re&#039;a   remna  hum          f&lt;br /&gt;
         plete     pai    pajni  jud          an         se&#039;u   selfu  ser&lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;u   muvdu  mov         ge         re&#039;e   trene  tra          ve&lt;br /&gt;
         e         pau    pagbu  par          in         sei    sepli  apa&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;a   nanca  yea         t          re&#039;i   renvi  sur          rt&lt;br /&gt;
         r         pe&#039;a   preja  spr          vive       si&#039;a   sinma  est&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;e   natfe  den         ead        re&#039;o   renro  thr          eem&lt;br /&gt;
         y         pe&#039;i   penmi  mee          ow         si&#039;e   snime  sno&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;i   nalci  win         t          re&#039;u   rectu  mea          w&lt;br /&gt;
         g         pe&#039;o   pendo  fri          t          si&#039;i   sicni  coi&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;o   cnano  nor         end        rei    preti  que          n&lt;br /&gt;
         m         pe&#039;u   pencu  tou          stion      si&#039;o   sidbo  ide&lt;br /&gt;
 na&#039;u   namcu  num         ch         ri&#039;a   rinka  cau          a&lt;br /&gt;
         ber       pei    pensi  thi          se         si&#039;u   simxu  mut&lt;br /&gt;
                           nk                                    ual&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 so&#039;a   sovda  egg to&#039;u   tordu  sho  xau    xamgu  goo  zu&#039;e   zukte  act&lt;br /&gt;
 so&#039;e   sobde  soy         rt                 d          zu&#039;i   zunti  int&lt;br /&gt;
         a         toi    troci  try  xe&#039;a   xedja  jaw          erfere&lt;br /&gt;
 so&#039;i   so&#039;i   man tu&#039;a   tumla  lan  xe&#039;i   xekri  bla&lt;br /&gt;
         y                 d                  ck&lt;br /&gt;
 so&#039;o   sombo  sow tu&#039;e   tuple  leg  xe&#039;o   xendo  kin&lt;br /&gt;
 soi    sonci  sol tu&#039;i   tugni  agr          d&lt;br /&gt;
         dier              ee         xe&#039;u   xenru  reg&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;a   stura  str tu&#039;o   tunlo  swa          ret&lt;br /&gt;
         ucture            llow       xei    xebni  hat&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;e   su&#039;e   at  tu&#039;u   tubnu  tub          e&lt;br /&gt;
         most              e          xi&#039;a   xirma  hor&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;i   sumti  arg va&#039;i   vamji  val          se&lt;br /&gt;
         ument             ue         xi&#039;o   xriso  Chr&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o   su&#039;o   at  va&#039;u   vasxu  bre          istian&lt;br /&gt;
         least             athe       xi&#039;u   xislu  whe&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;u   sfubu  div vai    vajni  imp          el&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 ortant     xoi    xotli  hot&lt;br /&gt;
 ta&#039;a   tavla  tal vau    vasru  con          el&lt;br /&gt;
         k                 tain       xu&#039;a   xusra  ass&lt;br /&gt;
 ta&#039;e   tanxe  box ve&#039;a   verba  chi          ert&lt;br /&gt;
 ta&#039;i   tatpi  tir         ld         xu&#039;e   xunre  red&lt;br /&gt;
         ed        ve&#039;e   ve&#039;e   who  xu&#039;i   xukmi  che&lt;br /&gt;
 ta&#039;o   tanbo  boa         le space           mical&lt;br /&gt;
         rd                interval   xu&#039;o   xurdo  Urd&lt;br /&gt;
 ta&#039;u   taxfu  gar ve&#039;u   vecnu  sel          i&lt;br /&gt;
         ment              l          za&#039;a   zabna  fav&lt;br /&gt;
 tai    tarmi  sha vei    vreji  rec          orable&lt;br /&gt;
         pe                ord        za&#039;i   zasti  exi&lt;br /&gt;
 tau    tanru  phr vi&#039;a   viska  see          st&lt;br /&gt;
         ase       vi&#039;e   vitke  gue  za&#039;o   za&#039;o   sup&lt;br /&gt;
         compound          st                 erfective&lt;br /&gt;
 te&#039;a   terpa  fea vi&#039;i   vikmi  exc  za&#039;u   zargu  but&lt;br /&gt;
         r                 rete               tock&lt;br /&gt;
 te&#039;i   steci  spe vi&#039;o   vitno  per  zai    zarci  mar&lt;br /&gt;
         cific             manent             ket&lt;br /&gt;
 te&#039;o   stero  ste vi&#039;u   vimcu  rem  zau    zanru  app&lt;br /&gt;
         radian            ove                rove&lt;br /&gt;
 te&#039;u   tengu  tex vo&#039;a   voksa  voi  ze&#039;a   zenba  inc&lt;br /&gt;
         ture              ce                 rease&lt;br /&gt;
 tei    temci  tim voi    vofli  fli  ze&#039;e   ze&#039;e   who&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 ght                le time&lt;br /&gt;
 ti&#039;a   tcima  wea vu&#039;e   vrude  vir          interval&lt;br /&gt;
         ther              tue        ze&#039;o   ze&#039;o   out&lt;br /&gt;
 ti&#039;e   trixe  beh vu&#039;i   vrusi  tas          ward&lt;br /&gt;
         ind               te         zei    zekri  cri&lt;br /&gt;
 ti&#039;i   stidi  sug vu&#039;o   vukro  Ukr          me&lt;br /&gt;
         gest              ainian     zi&#039;e   zifre  fre&lt;br /&gt;
 ti&#039;o   ctino  sha xa&#039;a   xatra  let          e&lt;br /&gt;
         dow               ter        zi&#039;i   zinki  zin&lt;br /&gt;
 ti&#039;u   tixnu  dau xa&#039;e   xance  han          c&lt;br /&gt;
         ghter             d          zi&#039;o   dzipo  Ant&lt;br /&gt;
 to&#039;a   tonga  ton xa&#039;i   xarci  wea          arctican&lt;br /&gt;
         e                 pon        zi&#039;u   zirpu  pur&lt;br /&gt;
 to&#039;e   to&#039;e   pol xa&#039;o   xampo  amp          ple&lt;br /&gt;
         ar                ere        zo&#039;a   zo&#039;a   tan&lt;br /&gt;
         opposite  xa&#039;u   xabju  dwe          gential&lt;br /&gt;
 to&#039;i   torni  twi         ll                 to&lt;br /&gt;
         st        xai    xrani  inj  zo&#039;i   zo&#039;i   inw&lt;br /&gt;
                           ure                ard&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_17_moi&amp;diff=124095</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 17 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_17_moi&amp;diff=124095"/>
		<updated>2020-08-20T18:34:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 16 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 18 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 17 - January 1993&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1993, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban International Conversation&lt;br /&gt;
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New Lojban Writing Project Starts&lt;br /&gt;
DETAILS IN NEWS SECTION&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Important: Your mailing label indicates the last issue of your subscription. If that issue is JL17, we need to hear from you, preferably with money for another year&#039;s subscription (US$28 North America, US$35 elsewhere). For overseas subscribers, this is the last grace issue before our subscription policy takes effect for you - we need to hear from you soon if you want to keep receiving JL; we will be far more likely to support a subscription for an interested overseas Lojbanist than a US Lojbanist, but we cannot do so unless you request to keep receiving JL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue features a discussion of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, including a fairly detailed explication of how it is understood and interpreted by linguists by Bruce Nevin. Also featured is a long section on the new effort to start creating an original Lojban literature. We invite all Lojbanists to participate in defining this project, which involves a group writing against a shared common setting which is predesigned. Several writings in both Lojban and English appear in this issue to kick off the project. Not all of the writings are translated into English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also included in this issue is a longer story translated by Ivan Derzhanski from a Bulgarian original. Extensive footnotes in commentary are provided, discussing some of the stylistic issues in translating, but also showing how you can get an understandable and interesting story even if some of the details of your language use are not understood as you intended.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Technical discussions include debates on Lojban&#039;s suitability as an intermediate language for machine translation, and a discussion of types of ambiguity found in language, and how Lojban avoids them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As will usually be the case, this issue contains much material derived from the Lojban List computer mailing list on the Internet. Nearly all such material has been edited, revised, and corrected from the original.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the new network address below for the Planned Languages Server if you wish to obtain electronic copies of our materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                          Table of Contents                            &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
Brief Glossary of Lojban Terms                                ---3     &lt;br /&gt;
News                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
  Status of JL, Subscriptions                                 ---3     &lt;br /&gt;
  Finances, Athelstan&#039;s Status, Bob and Nora&#039;s Adoption       ---4     &lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest 92 - Activities, Business Meeting, Negotiations with TLI,    &lt;br /&gt;
     Forthcoming Books, Baseline Status/Language Design, Next Year     &lt;br /&gt;
     ---5                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
  Other News - DC Class, Bradford Group, First International           &lt;br /&gt;
  Conversation, Phone Game, News from TLI                     ---7     &lt;br /&gt;
Language Development Status - gismu, lujvo, Grammar, Morphology, rafsi &lt;br /&gt;
                          ---8                                         &lt;br /&gt;
Structural Ambiguity in English and Lojban                    ---9     &lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Fluency?                                              ---11     &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson from Another Constructed Language                     ---13     &lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban Pangram                                             ---13     &lt;br /&gt;
An Alternative Orthography for Lojban                        ---14     &lt;br /&gt;
Criticisms of Lojban as a Tool for Machine Translation       ---15     &lt;br /&gt;
Discussions on the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (several pieces, note        &lt;br /&gt;
  especially:)                                               ---21     &lt;br /&gt;
  Summary of Linguistic Attitudes on Sapir-Whorf, by Bruce Nevin---22  &lt;br /&gt;
  Additional Sapir-Whorf Bibliography                        ---29     &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban Kalevala Project                                  ---30     &lt;br /&gt;
  Veijo&#039;s Summary                                            ---31     &lt;br /&gt;
  Condensed Papers - Collected Significant Writings on the Project     &lt;br /&gt;
  ---32                                                                &lt;br /&gt;
  Text and comments elucidating further description of Scenario #2     &lt;br /&gt;
  (Lojban and English texts)                                 ---46     &lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska - Ivan&#039;s Translation le lisri be le serti, Nora&#039;s    &lt;br /&gt;
  Operettina le ci cribe                                     ---52     &lt;br /&gt;
Translations and Commentary for ckafybarja writings and le lojbo se    &lt;br /&gt;
  ciska                                                      ---57     &lt;br /&gt;
  Veijo&#039;s First Text (57), Nick&#039;s Text (58), Veijo&#039;s Second Text (60), &lt;br /&gt;
  Iain&#039;s First Text (61), Mark Shoulson&#039;s Text (62), Iain&#039;s Second     &lt;br /&gt;
  Text (commentary only - 64), le lisri be le serti (65)               &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to la lojbangirz./Bob at: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com (This supersedes the prior &amp;quot;snark&amp;quot; address.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also join the Lojban List mailing list (currently around 70 subscribers). Send a single line message (automatically processed) containing only: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;subscribe lojban yourfirstname yourlastname&amp;quot; to: listserv@cuvmb. cc.columbia.edu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have problems needing human intervention, send to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send traffic for the mailing list to: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility. If you want to participate on Lojban List, you should be prepared to read your mail at least every couple of days; otherwise your mailbox fills up and you are dropped from the mailing-list. FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details if you don&#039;t know how to access the Internet network.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A good portion of our materials are available on-line from the Planned Languages Server (PLS). See JL16, or send the messages &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;send lojban readme&amp;quot; to the server address: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
langserv@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a new address since JL16 was published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following explicitly identifies people who are referred to by initials in JL. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of ju&#039;i lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039; - Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and &#039;Institute Loglan&#039; another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;PLS&#039; - The Planned Languages Server, a no-charge computer-network-accessed distribution center for materials on Lojban (and other artificial languages). See pg. 2 for email address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Brief Glossary of Lojban Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are definitions of frequently used Lojban terms. More complete explanations are in the Overview of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmavo - Lojban structure words&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gismu - Lojban root words; currently 1342;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;rafsi - short combining-forms for the gismu;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lujvo - compound words built from rafsi;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le&#039;avla - words borrowed from other languages;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;brivla - Lojban predicate words, consisting of gismu, lujvo. and le&#039;avla;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;tanru - Lojban metaphors, the most productive and creative expression form of the language;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;sumti - the arguments of a logical predicate;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;selbri - Lojban predicates which indicate a relation among one or more sumti. A selbri is most often a brivla or tanru; formerly called &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot; in error in some of our publications;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;bridi - Lojban predications, the basic grammatical structure of the language; a bridi expresses a complete relationship: the selbri expresses the relation and the sumti express the various things being related;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;selma&#039;o - grammatical categories of Lojban words; the basis of the unambiguous formal grammar of the language. Traditionally and erroneously called &amp;quot;lexeme&amp;quot; in the Loglan community. These categories typically have a name derived from one word in that grammatical category; the name is all capitals, except that an apostrophe is replaced by a small letter &#039;h&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Status of JL ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, I (Lojbab) seem to be late again in getting ju&#039;i lobypli out the door, though not quite as late as last issue. I do have a bit of an excuse. On very short notice, I had to go to Russia to become a father (more on this later). Now back, and somewhat settled down, I&#039;ve gone back to work, and have taken steps to make it more likely that JL will be able to come out on time in the future. This issue is hopefully out the door around the first of January. I will be preparing JL18 starting on 5 March, with an intended publication date of 1 April. Issue #18 is already more than half done, using material that would not fit in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JL17 more Lojban text and commentary on the text than previous issues; from now on, the portion of each issue devoted to Lojban text will continue to grow. Starting with this issue, I have adopted a new editorial policy whereby other Lojbanists who have demonstrated competence in the language will be reviewing and editing Lojban text that is submitted. No longer will I (Lojbab) be the bottleneck in getting Lojban text in print. Instead I will putting my time into getting the Lojban books published, and keeping JL coming out consistently on time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A result of this policy is that published Lojban text may have varying degrees of quality. All text will have been verified by the Lojban parser to assure that it is grammatical. However, we all know that not all grammatical text is easily understood (anyone who has read legal documents or tax forms can testify to this). Instead of me checking all texts for a consistent level of quality, published text will have been approved by two Lojbanists who have demonstrated competence in the written language. This will presumably mean that at least they understood the text. These editors, labelled by Nick Nicholas as &amp;quot;editors de jour&amp;quot;, are described in more detail in the ckafybarja papers below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I won&#039;t be checking and preparing the text, there will no longer be detailed translations of the sort that I have prepared for Lojban text in JLs prior to now, unless the authors or one of the editors prepares them. We will be trying to include a list of any special vocabulary words, and will include any translations that are provided.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, the increased volume of Lojban text, some of it original writings, will hopefully convince more of you to join the ranks of those who have learned enough Lojban to try to read the texts without translations. And maybe those who try to write such texts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscriptions ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are receiving this, then probably you either have returned a subscription form, you have a large balance and were already receiving JL, or you have ordered a package of Lojban materials that includes a sample issue, or you are an overseas subscriber receiving your last grace issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have paid for a subscription, this is the first issue under the subscription policy, and the issue will have cost you either US$7 (US/Canada) or US$8.75 (other countries). Those receiving JL via Major in Australia are doing so by arrangement with him at a price that he is setting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you did not return a subscription form and pay for a subscription, then this issue is being charged to your voluntary balance at a higher price than for paid subscribers: US$9 for US/- Canada and US$10 for other countries. If you were a JL subscriber and had enough balance to pay for this issue at this higher price, then you are receiving it even though you haven&#039;t returned the form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you did return a form, but did not have enough money in your balance to pay for a subscription, you are receiving this issue anyway, in reward for having responded. We hope that you will eventually contribute to your balance to offset the price. If not, you will probably be switched to receiving le lojbo karni as of issue #18.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having received only $170 in donations earmarked for the support of those who cannot afford subscriptions, we have allocated some of that money to supporting a few nonpaying volunteers who have been particularly active. Priority was given to people who have shown evidence of having tried to learn Lojban, and to non-US Lojbanists. This money has been allocated in the form of prepaid 2-issue subscriptions. We did not have enough money to support subscriptions for all who requested assistance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of the publication date, we have 122 prepaid subscribers, and another 13 are receiving this issue as a grace issue. Since some people did not send money with subscription forms, the number of subscribers will drop to around 100 for JL18 (unless we hear from those listed as expiring this issue), and seems likely to stabilize at around that level until books are published. This is not enough to qualify for reduced postal rates, so our costs are higher than they have been for recent issues. However, US recipients are getting their issue by first class mail and hence probably far more quickly than previous bulk mail issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We lost money in 1992, as in previous years, a net loss for the year of around $1300. End-of-year cost savings, including delaying JL17 and LK17 until 1993, reduced this from an earlier deficit of $3000. We will need to have a fund-raising drive in 1993 in order to have money to publish the new Lojban books (as well as to support our continuing operations).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of the end of December, income for the year was $8646.54 and expenses were $9999.01. This leaves about $2500 in the bank, of which somewhat over $1000 will go for JL17 and LK17. ($5500 of income was donated by Jeff Prothero and Lojbab, and went for legal fees. Thus, actual project income and expenses were only a fraction of previous years&#039;, around $3100 and $4500, respectively.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our IRS 501(c)(3) provisional status, authorizing us as a tax-free non-profit organization (and making your donations tax-deductible), is up for review as of the end of 1992. We expect that your support has been&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sufficient to make our non-profit status permanent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are now paying some $30 per month to maintain Master Card/Visa processing capability, though we are looking for a cheaper way to offer this service. Our Master Card/Visa fee to you is being raised to 10% pending our finding an alternative. If finances get any worse and we have not found a cheaper alternative, credit card ordering services will be dropped.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the successful ending of the legal battle with The Loglan Institute, we are getting close to paying off our legal bills, and expect to do so sometime in 1993. Since Lojbab and Jeff Prothero have been donating funds to cover those bills, the money has not come out of other la Lojbangirz. funds; thus paying the bill off won&#039;t really improve our financial situation (though we will have a good credit reference, at least). Legal costs have totalled over $12,000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Athelstan&#039;s Status ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There has been a good deal of support and sympathy expressed about Athelstan&#039;s accident. Early in December, he completed a course of recuperative therapy, and has moved out from his parents&#039; house, is working part-time, and is starting to rebuild a life of his own. This will take some considerable time, and Athelstan will have to live a fairly structured life for a while to have his best chances for long-term recovery. He also continues to need major dental work, since he has lost nearly all of his teeth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan attended the LogFest in August of 1992, for a few hours, and participated in a couple activities, and is doing some studying of the language on his own. However, it is clear that he will not be up to his pre-accident skill with the language for quite a while, and we do not expect him to resume his leadership role in the community at any time soon. Projects that he was working on, including the Lojban mini-lesson, continue to be delayed indefinitely.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bob and Nora&#039;s Adoption ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The biggest news out of Bob and Nora&#039;s house has little to do with Lojban except to help explain why so little is getting done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On extremely short notice (an hour after they told me it might take 6 months), the adoption agency called in late August to tell me that they had found a pair of children for us to adopt from Russia, and that they wanted us to travel immediately. All of September was taken up with rushed travel preparations for a trip that seemed continually to be scheduled for &amp;quot;next week some time&amp;quot;. These preparations were complicated by previously-scheduled surgery for Nora (who came through quite fine and is fully recovered, but the surgery meant that she could not go to Russia).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I left for Russia on October 2, returning on October 18 with 2 beautiful and healthy children, brother and sister. Angela is 6 1/2 and Avgust is 5. They are energetic, intelligent, and there have been almost no problems in their adaptation. However, from late August until the kids started school in November, we got almost no Lojban work done, hence the delayed appearance of ju&#039;i lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve resumed work, but at a somewhat lower pace. It took most of a month then to get caught up on mail and paperwork that had lagged during that time; hopefully the last of the backlogged orders are going out in the mail with this issue. I expect a lag of some 3-4 months in the publishing of Lojban books, but John Cowan, Nick Nicholas and others have made tremendous efforts to keep the ball rolling on book preparation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These days, we mostly speak Russian at home, despite the fact that neither Nora nor I speak it nearly as well as we speak Lojban. The kids are learning English very slowly (and Lojban even more slowly - they do spontaneously use &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot; to Lojban-oriented guests, though). Being forced to use a language in this way has been a real education in language acquisition, and I have much more recognition of what things help in self-teaching a language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will no doubt improve the teaching quality of our materials when they come out. I know that it has certainly changed my ideas what needs to go into the textbook. The proto-textbook that we&#039;ve been working on won&#039;t be affected, and indeed nothing I&#039;ve written for this draft of the textbook will need significant rewrite, but new sections to be written in the future will incorporate the lessons in language learning that I&#039;ve acquired the hard way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban got a bit of a boost from my trip: Ivan Derzhanski did a high quality translation of the Lojban brochure into Russian on short notice (copies available on request); while in Russia, I was able to arrange to have it published in a journal in Russia, probably next autumn; the title is something like the &amp;quot;Transactions of the Society of Eastern and Oriental Languages&amp;quot;. This will be the first academic publication about the Loglan project other than book reviews, which don&#039;t really count (Scientific American is considered insufficiently academic to have it count in Loglan&#039;s favor, and having an academic publication record is important in seeking grants). Special thanks are given to my Russian linguist consultant, Mikhael Maron, of the Institute for Russian Language in Moscow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On Friday, October 16, I presented a &#039;seminar&#039; on Lojban (basically a short talk with question-answering) to about 20 people at Moscow State University Dept. of Philology and Linguistics. These included three professors, Mikhail Maron (who arranged the talk with department chairman Professor Polikarpov), and several graduate students who are studying theoretical linguistics and also taking a &#039;practical English&#039; class (Their teacher saw this as a good opportunity to practice, but the students seemed genuinely interested). A couple of students and the professors as well, especially department chairman Polikarpov, seemed particularly interested, and I made arrangements to continue discussions by electronic mail. There were many regrets that I could not stay longer in Moscow, arrange further discussions and visit laboratories, but the purpose of the trip was primarily for the kids, and they most certainly had to come first in my planning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also had discussions with the Academician leading Russia&#039;s efforts in machine translation. There was some interest, but his group right now must put financial concerns first - they have to find a way to commercialize (i.e. attract Western money), and there is little likelihood that we are going to be able to help in that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LogFest 92 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second (and main) LogFest 92 took place the weekend of 14-17 August 1992, and included the annual meeting of la lojbangirz. 16 people attended. As usual, Friday night was arrival night, with socializing and people coming in the door until well after midnight. Lojban-related activities started on Saturday and continued through Monday.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On Saturday, the Lojban community welcomed the return of Athelstan, who was able to attend for a few hours with the assistance of his parents. It will be a while yet before Athelstan can resume the major contributions to the Lojban effort that he was making before the accident, but having him show up at LogFest was a real morale booster for us, and probably also for him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan was able to stay and serve as &#039;critic&#039; while the summer &#039;92 DC Lojban class and John Cowan helped present Nora&#039;s operettina &amp;quot;le ci cribe&amp;quot; (text in le lojbo ciska below), for lojbo verba of all ages. As with the previous effort of this kind, Cinderelwood (1989), our low budget, low practice, production group set a new standard for lojbo draci, but aren&#039;t about to hit Broadway in the near future. The Lojbanic lyrics went well with the collections of children&#039;s songs to which the playlet was set, and some hasty but serious practice efforts before the presentation meant that the actors sang their lines without stumbling. Athelstan the critic gave it a thumbs up before departing; we&#039;ll be looking forward to his next visit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another Saturday activity was the discussion of the Lojban Kalevala project (see separate article). All in all, we tried to keep Saturday a little bit light, knowing that Sunday&#039;s business meeting was likely to be long and emotionally draining (as have all of our annual business meetings). Thus, discussions stayed in English, and ranged over a wide variety of topics related to the Lojban effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Business meeting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The business meeting started at 9:30AM Sunday morning. We had several key people missing, as pc had business matters in Arizona to take care of, John Hodges&#039; car broke down at the last minute, and Art Wieners was called back to work from vacation for a crisis that made him unavailable all weekend. However, all of these people had made their positions clear on the issues at hand, and the meeting proceeded surprising well. The following summarizes the results of the meeting:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Organizational ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas and Colin Fine were elected as the first non-US voting members of LLG. We consider all of the Lojban community to be part of LLG, but we have to have a clearly defined voting membership for legal purposes to manage organizational matters. Also added were David Young, Sylvia Rutiser, and David Twery. Jeff Taylor, who hasn&#039;t actively participated for the last couple of years, was dropped as a voting member. To make clear the nature of voting membership, a resolution was passed explicitly stating on the record that voting members should consider themselves as representing the community at-large, and not just themselves, in matters that are decided.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several bylaw changes were made, all relating to procedures involved in holding members&#039; and Board of Directors&#039; meetings when we are so geographically dispersed and several members cannot be physically present for the meeting, especially the overseas members; we do not want inability to attend LogFest to prevent people from participating in the LLG decision-making, especially such major technical contributors as Nick and Colin. These bylaw changes are an evolving process, as we adapt to LLG&#039;s continuing growth and international spread; every year, we seem to need a few more changes to meet new problems that have arisen. Copies of the current LLG Bylaws are available at cost to any member of the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob and Nora LeChevalier, John Cowan, and pc were re-elected to the LLG Board of Directors, and in a brief meeting of the Board after the members&#039; meeting, Bob was reelected President of LLG, pc as Vice President, and Nora as Secretary/Treasurer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Negotiations with TLI ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major political issue at the meeting was the determination of LLG policy towards The Loglan Institute and JCB, now that the legal battle over trademark status of the name &#039;Loglan&#039; is over. There have been some initial efforts towards a negotiation between the two groups, with both sides expressing an interest in reuniting the effort behind a single version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The efforts haven&#039;t gone far, since TLI wants LLG to disband and merge into TLI behind its version of Loglan. la lojbangirz. is committed to Lojban, which is a much superior version of the language, and we have a larger group of people actually doing something with the language. The membership showed extreme distrust towards TLI, voting to insist on two key preconditions to further negotiations:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) Both organizations must sign a binding agreement preventing legal action resulting from further negotiations; the members want to be sure that TLI&#039;s offers to negotiate are bona fide and not an attempt to set us up for a lawsuit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) TLI must drop its &#039;trade secret&#039; protection on all aspects of its design for its version of the language. LLG being committed to the freedom of the Loglan community to freely use the language howsoever they choose, the members felt that a &#039;secret&#039; grammar is anathema to the concept of a large community of people using a constructed language, especially one intended for scientific research. It is felt that no real progress can be made on possible merger of the two languages while TLI continued to keep theirs secret where neither TLI nor LLG supporters could see the language details and evaluate them on their merits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The voting membership seems open to negotiations provided that TLI demonstrated bona fide intent by meeting the preconditions. However, there is little sentiment for significant change in Lojban as part of a merger of languages; we collectively believe that the Lojban design is far superior to anything the TLI designers might have come up with in the past couple of years since the last good information about their version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I proposed a strategy for remerger of the efforts starting with the adoption of alternative ways of writing the two language versions so that they resemble each other in appearance, thus making cosmetic appearance not an issue (as it appears to be for JCB) when the two languages are essentially the same in the structures that determine how the language looks on paper. John Cowan has proposed an alternate orthography for Loglan/Lojban, allowing it to look in print very much like TLI Loglan. (see separate article).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following such an initial step, each organization would study in depth the two language versions looking for similarities and differences. We would try to convince TLI to adopt our changes into their language, and they presumably would try to convince us to adopt their design where we differ. Vocabulary lists are likely to be the major unresolvable issue under this approach. When the review is completed, the decision of which vocabulary list and which version of any unresolved differences to go with would be voted on by the supporters of each version. If one version wins the vote in both organizations, then the language versions have remerged. Otherwise, the two organizations go their separate ways, but with languages presumably much closer together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is the collective belief of the LLG membership that if no merger takes place, that TLI will fade away eventually. LLG members expressed an unwillingness to accept changes in Lojban that in any way detract from the current design - any evolution of Lojban would have to be a positive one, and we have no reason to believe that there are any differences between the two languages wherein changing Lojban to match TLI Loglan would enhance the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Faced with lengthy negotiations even if TLI meets our necessary preconditions, the voting membership reiterated its intent that we publish the books defining the Lojban design that are currently in preparation, noting that as each book is published it will further cement us in a position wherein we cannot accept changes to the language in concession to TLI. Thus the ball is in TLI&#039;s court and they will have to move fast if they wish to have any significant chance of influencing the direction of a future combined effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Initial signs are not optimistic for further reduction in hostilities. TLI formed a public mailing list similar to Lojban List on the computer networks, but then apparently went to considerable lengths to prevent Lojbab from participating, eliminating the public nature of the list and virtually shutting it down - apparently for fear that some of their trade secrets will get to me.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Forthcoming Books ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was lengthy and emotional debate on the continuing delays in getting the prototype and baseline books out. Many Lojbanists are waiting for the books, convinced either that they cannot learn the language without the books, or that the language will change after they&#039;ve learned it, if they learn the language before it is set down in the books. Our very conservative baseline approach does not satisfy these people; only the books will do.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The voting membership thus forced John Cowan and me to more strongly commit to getting the books done as quickly as possible, and to avoid changes to the language definition except insofar as glitches come to light during book writing. We expected to have the proto-dictionary done before the end of the year, with the proto-textbook and introductory book following soon after. (This was before the kids came along, forcing a few more months delay). John Cowan&#039;s papers will be assembled into a reference grammar to conclude the initial design documents. We are trying to have all 4 books done within a year, though John&#039;s book will be the slowest to be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John believes that after these books are completed, there will likely be no further changes to the language, and we will go immediately into the long-term design-ending baseline. I (Lojbab) continue to intend to produce a real textbook and dictionary (of which the first two books are indeed &#039;prototypes&#039;) that will define the baseline, but John and others doubt that this will happen in a timely manner, and that the proto-books will be the ones used in the baseline. I have agreed that the bottom line on the book publication will be how fast we can get them written, coupled with the finances of publishing, and not my goals to produce more &#039;perfect&#039; non-proto versions of the books. This, and a renewed commitment to stop fiddling with the language design, mollified some very frustrated and impatient Lojban supporters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The conclusion is that the community very strongly wants the language to be done, and usable, and does not care whether the language is any closer to perfect than it currently is. I stand on record as recognizing that sentiment of the community as expressed by the membership, that has elected me to lead the effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Baseline Status/Language Design ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The membership voted to update the grammar baseline as of the proto-dictionary publication, to include changes approved by the technical committee that has been reviewing those changes (which are all considered relatively minor by the members). The rafsi and cmavo lists will also be baselined when the book is published, incorporating the current reviews, and the intent is to baseline the morphology algorithm published in JL16 after updating it for wording errors found when we coded it up - John Cowan wants to have the algorithm fully coded and verified before making a baseline commitment, and we are still working on this. With all of these baselines, the only significant language feature that will not be baselined are the gismu place structures, although it is believed that the simple fact of putting those into the book will effectively baseline them as well (the difference to me is that I don&#039;t want to feel obligated to defend a stupidity that we missed in the place structure simply because we made a promise not to change. There are known weaknesses in other aspects of the Lojban design, but no major ones, and those known are not considered open for change because of our baseline commitment to avoid change where possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The two gismu proposed in JL16, vukro and slovo, were added to the gismu baseline, along with four new gismu for metric prefixes reflecting their addition to the international metric standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As part of the rafsi review in progress, there emerged strong feeling that the gismu for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; as distinct from &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; (= 24 hours) should have good rafsi, which was not possible without severe tradeoffs given the word (dinri) that resulted when the word was generated last year using the word-making algorithm. As was done in the case of &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;, which was changed last year from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; because of the need for a good rafsi, the membership approved that this word be changed, disregarding the scoring algorithm if necessary. This was considered acceptable only because the word is a new one added just last year and is neither in common use yet nor even reflected in our published lists. To minimize relearning difficulty, John Cowan and I opted to change only a single letter, and the gismu for &#039;daytime&#039; is now &amp;quot;donri&amp;quot;, with rafsi &amp;quot;dor&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;do&#039;i&amp;quot;. The membership approved this change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That was it for the members meeting. We also had two committee meetings, one to correlate the results of the rafsi review, and the other to allocate the $142 received last winter in donations specifically to support active, non-paying Lojbanists who cannot afford to pay for materials. The money was allocated toward 2-issue subscriptions for several people, with the hope that our finances have improved after 2 issues and more money is available to help such people out at that point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan has put together a new parser based on the current set of proposed grammar changes, which are expected to be approved, and it will hopefully be tested thoroughly in coming weeks by some key people who write a lot of Lojban text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday night and Monday were spent in more Lojbanic activities, a little conversation, and going over a writing effort by David Twery. By then everyone was exhausted, as another busy and successful Logfest came to an end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Next Year ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re not sure what LogFest will be like in 1993, given the patter of little feet around here, and haven&#039;t set a date for LogFest 93. We hope that there&#039;ll be more in-language activities, and at least one of the books should be out by then. Given the addition to our family, we&#039;re hoping others coming to LogFest will bring their families too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s a possibility for a weekend gathering in 1993 which will be an all-Lojban affair, with no English permitted. This is an ambitious undertaking - the language is ready for it though. The major factor will be the effect of our kids on our time. At the moment, Nora and my Lojban skills have deteriorated in favor of Russian.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the critical factor in such a weekend is vocabulary, vocabulary, vocabulary. The summer Lojban class here covered most of the grammar in seven 2-hour sessions, but no one had nearly enough vocabulary command to converse. Hopefully with this weekend gathering as a goal, those of the community who want to see the language brought to life will get to work on their word lists and LogFlash, and try to be here if we can put this weekend together. If we don&#039;t manage it in 1993, we will surely try in 1994, when Nick Nicholas has threatened to visit from Australia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Other News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== DC Class ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the summer we held a weekly class in Lojban here in Fairfax. Five students participated, although two of them, Sylvia Rutiser and Tommy Whitlock, were primarily freshening up their skills. Of the other three, two completed the class and have continued actively participating in Lojban weekly conversations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== DC Weekly Group ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the conclusion of the summer class, the DC conversation group resumed weekly meetings, continuing even through Nora&#039;s recovery from surgery and Lojbab&#039;s trip to Russia. Typically, activities split 50/50 between conversation each session and discussions of texts written by the group members or on Lojban List. When less experienced Lojbanists are present, we assign one-on-one &amp;quot;mentors&amp;quot; who aid them by coaching them in what people are saying, and helping them say what they would like in the language. Thus everyone gets to participate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More recently, since Lojbab&#039;s return from Russia, some (rather light-hearted) efforts have been made to introduce our two kids to Lojban; this is necessitated by their domination of everyone&#039;s attention until bedtime. We suspended meetings for the December holiday season, partly in order to get the kids better settled so that we can focus more on the language during weekly sessions, and partly to try to arrange a more convenient schedule for participants. After the first of the year, weekly sessions will resume, probably on Monday or Tuesday evenings. Lojbanists in the DC area may contact Lojbab at 703-385-0273 if you would like to visit or start regular participation in this group - you need not have significant skill in the language to gain from participation, but you should in that case be planning some self-study at other times during the week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Bradford Group ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine has started a study group in Bradford, England, the first regularly meeting Lojban group outside of the US. I don&#039;t have many details on numbers of participants, but the group has produced a significant amount of Lojban text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== First International Conversation ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am pleased to report a major milestone in the Lojban project - a most surprising one indeed at the time it happened.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One Monday evening in September, I received a telephone call. I had been studying Russian about 10 hours straight at the time I got this call. And what do I hear on the line but a collection of traji cizra (superlatively strange) beeps and clicks and this unusual bunch of words coming at me. They weren&#039;t Russian (and this itself was baffling, because I&#039;d already gotten 2 calls today from people with heavy Russian accents who were offering me information and advice related to my forthcoming trip, in response to a computer network posting).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It finally dawned on me that someone was talking Lojban at me. Except for intermittent sentences in an otherwise English conversation, no one has ever spoken conversational Lojban to me on the telephone except Nora, and she was sitting next to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, I was attempting to understand, and my Lojban totally failed me, partly from shock, and partly from the fact that as I attempted to form Lojban sentences, Russian words kept creeping into them in my mind, and this hodgepodge of jborusko (Lojbanic-Russian) just wouldn&#039;t be communicative; but I couldn&#039;t tune out the Russian. Finally I asked the other end of the line to repeat, and I made out the words nik. nikolas. and sralo, and I suddenly understood all the clicks and beeps. The first international telephone call in Lojban, and I was talking to Nick Nicholas in Australia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m afraid we never got more than a couple of sentences exchanged - my brain just would not click into Lojban mode. But I can testify that Lojban now has people who have demonstrated conversational competence with the spoken language on two continents. There is no doubt in my mind that the sralo accent on the other end of the line was speaking quite good Lojban, and at a fluency that would stand him well in our weekly sessions in Washington DC. (Nick has promised to visit us in 1994, when he completes his degree work in college.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the shock slowly ebbed from my mind, I got enough presence to suggest that this would have worked better if the call had been the following night, when the weekly DC group met. So I was told that I should prepare people for just such a call.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Nick&#039;s recollection of the actual conversation, with commentary:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Robert LeChevalier? Yah. [Lojbab: A good answer in all three languages.] .i mi&#039;e nitcion. nikolas. i mi fonxa tavla ra&#039;i la australias. mu&#039;i lenu rinsa do pu lenu do cliva la rusko. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; is wrong, obviously, and &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; isn&#039;t very smart, but hey, I&#039;d been walking a lot :) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thereupon Goodman LeChevalier said &amp;quot;... a couple of words of that sound vaguely familiar; please repeat.&amp;quot; I did; this time I was la nik. nikolas, ra&#039;i la sralo... &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ladies and Gentlemen, Robert has learnt his cmavo well: his &amp;quot;.ua&amp;quot; was as good as any exclamation James Brown (let alone James Cooke Brown) could come up with :) Duckcall-like, in fact :) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I started chuckling (&amp;quot;hehehehe&amp;quot;), then quickly corrected myself: &amp;quot;.u&#039;i.u&#039;i.u&#039;i&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A good thing too that Bob&#039;s brain wouldn&#039;t click into Lojban mode, because, as I said to him (er... four times, the fourth in English :), mi na djuno da poi mi bilga lenu cusku ke&#039;a (once more, in writing that would be a &amp;quot;ledu&#039;u mi bilga lenu cusku dakau&amp;quot;, but whatever). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stunned silence followed, then a bit of small talk, then I talked to Nora, and it went a little bit like this: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi coi noras .i ?xu do kanro [an IDIOT question in Lojban, but cut me slack already, I&#039;m new at speaking the damn language :) ]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi kanro .i ?xu DO kanro&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pe&#039;i go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I really aspirated them apostrophes; I can&#039;t remember if Bob or Nora did.] .i mi jinvi lenu do xagmau mi lenu cusku [I think it was &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot;; I remember at being surprised, not so much at the lujvo, as at the fact that it was followed immediately by a pronoun, without a preposition. Two years of written Lojban, and now I notice the absence of &amp;quot;than&amp;quot;?!] .i .u&#039;i ?xu go&#039;i .i mi ruble go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I&#039;m trying to be a smartass in Lojban, and it&#039;s not quite working. The word I was looking for was &amp;quot;ru&#039;e&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mind you, the bad acoustics and my lack of familiarity with spoken Lojban meant that I had to search a bit to determine what was being said (by Bob, at least). From what I remember though, I got through all right.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab, I believe, farewelled me with a &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot; (ah yes, he does aspirate them heavily), and I responded with a &amp;quot;co&#039;osai&amp;quot;. I didn&#039;t mean by that that I was glad to be rid of you, honest! :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll have to have something to talk about for me to be convinced that we can converse intelligibly. I can see why the differences between Washington and net Lojban exist though: good phrasing just doesn&#039;t come to you spontaneously, much less good bracketing. I&#039;m not going to let this worry me about the future of the language yet, mind you...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The kind of halting Lojban I was getting from Fairfax reminded me of the Esperanto beginners I occasionally tutor. The kind of Lojban I was getting out of myself reminded me of the aplomb with which I used to face Esperanto when finding myself in a position of linguistic expertise, but minus the actual expertise... :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh yeah, that&#039;s the other thing I said, when he mentioned the Russian on the mind: &amp;quot;Ya ne gavaryu pa-ruskii&amp;quot; :)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following night, Colin Fine joined in the act, calling about an hour before Nick made his second call (which was considerably more communicative than the first one. Thus in one night we had three continents speaking Lojban. Again, international beeps and whistle gummed up the conversation, but Colin was quite understandable (if a bit briefer than Nick, who seemed to be feeling rich to want to talk so long). I have to say that Nick has a jump on Colin in fluency of speech, but nothing a little practice won&#039;t make up for, and Colin does have some people local to him to practice with.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[On aspiration of &#039;: in some words I heavily aspirate it, like co&#039;o, and other vowel pairs with matching vowels. In others I aspirate a bit less. Nick enunciates his vowels far more clearly than most of us speaking the language.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I didn&#039;t feel so bad at not parsing Nick&#039;s sentences after he confessed the mistakes he made. I am particularly bad at correcting others&#039; errors in spoken Lojban, especially at conversational speed. This is one major failing I have at teaching the language. If you screw up, I don&#039;t understand you, because I am parsing in my head, translating to Lojbanized English and then understanding. The wrong cmavo, or even one no one has used in speech to me before (which Nick did several of), brings the parser in my head to a screeching halt, but Nick kept going. (I have the same trouble with spoken Russian: I hear a word I don&#039;t recognize right off, and I completely lose the next 2 sentences trying to figure it out.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin Fine offered that any Lojbanist who wanted to try a call was welcome to call him. His telephone number is currently (+044) 0274-503168. Nick Nicholas noted that those with access to the Internet can effectively practice conversational Lojban by computer, using a software system called &amp;quot;IRC&amp;quot; (Internet Relay Chat). For those with such access, it might be useful practice; the speed of conversational typing is far less than the speed of talking, and not as prone to errors in hearing. Contact us by e-mail at the address on page 2 if you are interested in IRC &#039;conversation and have access to that service on the networks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Phone Game ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;phone game&amp;quot;, a computer network Lojban activity described last issue, made it through three rounds, but then stalled on the fourth round - one person who signed up dropped out after the game started, and several of the more experienced people participating in previous rounds had other activities to occupy them in summer. By the end of August, we decided to suspend the game, since a replacement activity, the Lojban coffeehouse project described below, had captured everyone&#039;s imaginations. We may start new rounds at some future time when we get some new people interested in participating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Loglan Institute ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After our victory in the appeals court in LLG&#039;s trademark dispute with The Loglan Institute (see last issue), there remained the possibility that TLI would continue the legal battle. We are happy to report that this seems not to be the case, and the trademark issue is dead. People may use the word &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; freely in talking about all aspects of our 37 year old project, including Lojban, without needing permission from TLI. Indeed, it seems that both organizations will now be able to turn away from the legal system as a method of resolving our disagreements over the course of the Loglan Project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Preliminary discussions have led to a &amp;quot;truce&amp;quot; in our disputes, with a possibility that there will be future interest in negotiating an active reconciliation and remerger of our efforts. Unfortunately, at this time both sides remain far apart on how such a reconciliation might be accomplished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details on la lojbangirz. policy with regard to negotiations were discussed at LogFest and can be found in the article on that meeting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We intend to continue to fairly report on what we hear from TLI, and hope that our non-hostile demeanor will cause TLI&#039;s people to more actively seek reunification within the Loglan community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Language Development Status ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== gismu ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Six gismu were added at LogFest, as described in the article on that meeting. Other than these changes, there have been no new gismu proposals, and indeed, the draft set of revised place structures has generated little criticism. Thus, we consider the gismu list stable enough for book publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lujvo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas has spent a lot of time in the last 6 months doing a thorough review of some 2700 lujvo that have been used or proposed for use in Lojban text. He has analyzed these by origin, indicated their quality (and occasionally proposed better replacements), and analyzed them to determine probable place structures based on analysis and actual usage. As a result, the proto-dictionary will likely have many more entries than we had originally planned, since I intend to incorporate as much of Nick&#039;s work as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Grammar ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar is of course baselined and frozen until we make updates and republish it in the Lojban books. Because we want the books to reflect the grammar after the books are done, we do our writing based on that next revision of the grammar. Indeed, most of the change proposal come out of the detailed analysis that John Cowan does in writing his reference grammar essays.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are now 27 minor changes planned for that revision, all but 5 being extensions to the language. Because of the delays in publishing books and the fact that many active Lojbanists are incorporating new features in their Lojban writings, JL18 will include a revised E-BNF and a complete summary of all the changes since the last baseline. John Cowan believes that only a couple more changes of even this minor scale are likely prior to baselining for book publication; his estimates are reasonable, since he is the one who has proposed almost all of the ones in this set of changes. Of the changes listed, only one was considered by experienced Lojbanists to be important. However, even that change was easily taught to students last summer within one class session.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Morphology ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Last issue, we printed the draft Lojban formal morphology algorithm. Nora has been working to implement and text the algorithm in software, and has found several errors in the algorithm as printed in the issue. The problems are not with Lojban, but rather are errors in the way various steps are worded. The dictionary/reference book will have a version of the algorithm that passes Nora&#039;s software analysis. Meanwhile, we print a short discussion that gives a simpler, plain-English rendition of the algorithm:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And Rosta asks:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Has anyone conducted an experiment to verify that word-boundaries are identifiable, even if you don&#039;t know what the words mean? If I were to hear a recording of rapid spoken Lojban, could I, equipped only with the word segmentation rules, identify all the word boundaries?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes you could. Ideally a computer could. If you cannot, it is due to human limitations in analysis, not to ambiguity in the algorithm. These limitations might prove to be real, since there are some obvious ways to concoct utterances that will lead a listener down a primrose path:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi viska le prenu is a valid sentence /miVISkalePREnu/ miviskaleprenus is a name /miVISkalePREnus/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but you can&#039;t distinguish them till the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No we haven&#039;t tested the algorithm in any rigorous or experimental sense. There have been informal analyses, and of course we have people conversing who have no problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The short form of the algorithm is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Pauses are word breaks.&lt;br /&gt;
# Identify names by going backwards from &#039;consonant + pause&#039; to preceding &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot; or word break/start of text.&lt;br /&gt;
# Among remaining text, start from the left looking for consonant clusters which mean that you are in a brivla (predicate word). Any number of leading CV and CVV syllables fall off a permissible initial cluster, each forming separate cmavo. In a brivla, find the stressed syllable, then, since that is penultimate, take one syllable more, ending in a vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== rafsi ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The analysis of Lojban rafsi, mentioned in the discussion of LogFest above, was not completed until just before publication of this issue, primarily due to Bob&#039;s travels. We intend to publish a lengthy article and the revised list with JL18, so that all people can switch to the new baseline at that time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Structural Ambiguity in English and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Dan Maxwell and John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Dan is an Esperantist, linguist, and programmed on the DLT machine translation project. John Cowan is an LLG leader, and responds to Dan with the indented notes.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is obviously true that words which never change their form are easier to handle than ones which do change their form, but at the level of the sentence it is often the case that the forms of words are useful indicators of the relationships between the words. Here are some examples of structural ambiguity in English, some of which could be solved by more &amp;quot;signposts&amp;quot; on the words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Here are various Lojban translations, showing how Lojban resolves the ambiguities of the English examples. Lojban words never change in form for grammatical purposes, although many root words have shortened forms for use in making compounds (the underlying roots can be uniquely reconstructed from the compound).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. I saw the linguist with the binoculars (&#039;with the binoculars&#039; can be taken with either &#039;saw&#039; or &#039;linguist&#039;.). This problem comes up quite often, although context or the meanings of the words often serve to disambiguate for human beings but not for computers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 1.1) mi viska le banskeju&#039;o sepi&#039;o le reldanvistci&lt;br /&gt;
      I see the language-science-knower using the two-far-see-tool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 1.2) mi viska le banskeju&#039;o pe sepi&#039;o le reldanvistci&lt;br /&gt;
      I see the language-science-knower which-is using the two-far-see-tool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: In 1.1, the prepositional phrase (tagged sumti, in Lojban jargon) is attached to the entire predication. In 1.2, the relative-phrase particle &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; glues the prepositional phrase to the preceding noun phrase. Of course, other interpretations are possible, each with its Lojban expansion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 1.3) mi viska le banskeju&#039;o joi le reldanvistci&lt;br /&gt;
      I see the language-science-knower joined-with the two-far-see-tool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: This denotes seeing the two objects jointly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 1.4) mi viska le banskeju&#039;o poi kansa le reldanvistci&lt;br /&gt;
      I see the language-science-knower who accompanies the two-far-see-tool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Here the linguist is &amp;quot;with&amp;quot; the binoculars in the sense of carrying them or being near them, not using them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Old men and women (&#039;old&#039; can be taken with either &#039;men&#039; or &#039;men and women&#039;). This is perhaps the second most frequent type of structural ambiguity in languages like English. Signposts on the words can solve some classes of this problem, i.e if the two nouns are singular and the adjective when taken with both is plural.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Since Lojban is a predicate language, I will recast this example as a predication, which involves changing the &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; to an &amp;quot;or&amp;quot;, thus: &amp;quot;The soldiers are old men or women.&amp;quot; Using &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; would limit the soldiers to such individuals as are both old men and women; since no individual is both a man and a woman, that translation would be incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 2.1) le sonci cu to&#039;ercitno nanmu ja ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
      the soldiers are-anti-young men or women&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 2.2) le sonci cu ke to&#039;ercitno nanmu ke&#039;e ja ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
      the soldiers (are-anti-young men) or are-women&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 2.3) le sonci cu to&#039;ercitno bo nanmu ja ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
      the soldiers are-anti-young-men or are-women&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Normally, logical connection binds more tightly than simple modification in Lojban, so 2.1 means &amp;quot;old (men or women)&amp;quot;. To change this rule, we may use the explicit parenthesis words &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; as in 2.2, or the high-precedence infix marker &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; as in 2.3. Lojban often allows both forethought and afterthought forms of expression; parentheses are more general but require more preplanning and may be more difficult to use in colloquial speech.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Army demands change (Is &#039;demands&#039; a noun or a verb?). This problem comes up in all languages in which words do not have different forms for different parts of speech or a given marker like English &#039;s&#039; is ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I would star this example as dubious English: it is really &amp;quot;headlinese&amp;quot; and depends on omitting the article. But even after revision to &amp;quot;The army demands change&amp;quot;, it is still ambiguous. The Lojban versions are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 3.1) le jenmi cu cpedu lo nunbinxo&lt;br /&gt;
      the army requests an event-of-change&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 3.2) le jenmi se cpedu cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
      the army-type-of requested-thing changes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; signifies a transformative change, as when ice changes to water. A mere change in the amount or intensity of a property, on the other hand, is &amp;quot;cenba&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;cpedu&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;A requests/demands B&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;se cpedu&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;B is requested/demanded by A&amp;quot;, so &amp;quot;se cpedu&amp;quot; is needed in 3.2 to refer to that which is requested rather than the requester.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Flying planes can be dangerous (Does &#039;flying&#039; modify &#039;planes&#039;, or is &#039;planes&#039; the object of the gerund &#039;flying&#039;?).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 4.1) lo vofli vinji ka&#039;e ckape&lt;br /&gt;
      some flyer-type-of airplanes can-be perilous&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 4.2) lenu vofli be lo vinji ka&#039;e ckape&lt;br /&gt;
      the event-of flying some airplanes can-be perilous&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Lojban&#039;s careful distinction between concrete and abstract arguments pays off here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The hunting of the tigers (Are the tigers the hunters or the hunted?).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 5.1) lenu le tirxu cu kalte&lt;br /&gt;
      the event-of the tiger(s) hunting&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 5.2) lenu le tirxu cu se kalte&lt;br /&gt;
      the event-of the tiger(s) being hunted&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: These may be collapsed to compounds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 5.3) le nuntirxykalte&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 5.4) le nuntirxyselkalte&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The picture of the student that I liked (Does the relative clause go with &#039;picture&#039; or &#039;student?&#039;) Languages with inflected relative pronouns might be able to avoid this type, at least if the two nouns are not in the same class.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 6.1) le pixra be le tadni poi mi nelci ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
      the picture of (the student such-that I like him)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 6.2) le pixra be le tadni be&#039;o poi mi nelci ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
      the (picture of the student) such-that I like it&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Note that Lojban relative clauses are of the Hebrew type, with a marker at the beginning of the clause (&amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;) and a pronoun within the clause referring back to the relativized argument (&amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
:: 6.1 and 6.2 differ by the presence of the right-bracket word &amp;quot;be&#039;o&amp;quot;. An omitted right-bracket word acts as if it appears as far to the right as possible; thus 6.1 is equivalent to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6.3) le pixra be le tadni poi mi nelci ke&#039;a be&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: In both 6.2 and 6.3, the &amp;quot;be&amp;quot;...&amp;quot;be&#039;o&amp;quot; construct indicates the subordinated argument of the subordinated predication &amp;quot;is a picture of&amp;quot;. In 6.1/6.3, the argument is &amp;quot;the student such-that I like him&amp;quot; whereas in 6.2, the argument is merely &amp;quot;the student&amp;quot; and the subordinated argument is then cut off, leaving &amp;quot;such-that I like it&amp;quot; to modify the whole (top-level) argument.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sentence 1 would not be ambiguous in Esperanto, since there happen to be two different prepositions (&#039;kun&#039; and &#039;per&#039;) in this case. But this general type of ambiguity is found in Esperanto as well. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I show above, the &#039;per&#039; interpretation is possible even if &amp;quot;linguist&amp;quot; is taken to be the attachment point, giving something like &amp;quot;I see the linguist who is doing something with (using) the binoculars&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sentence 2 would indeed be ambiguous in Esperanto, at least in the most usual translation. Sentence 3 would definitely not be ambiguous, because different parts of speech are marked by different endings. Sentence 4 would also not be ambiguous, because participles have different endings than nominalized verbs. In 5, it depends on how careful the speaker is being. There is a tendency to use the same preposition in both cases, but there is also a commonly used alternative for the subject reading. The translation of 6 would be ambiguous in Esperanto as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: As shown above, none of these are ambiguous in Lojban, and all of the Lojban forms given above are natural unstrained forms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Inflection-based grammar developed in historical times; it is probably an example of the way the human mind seeks complexity. Any language, including Esperanto, that developed prior to the emergence of Information Technology, is &#039;historical&#039; in this sense. The formal grammar and agreement present in such pre-computer-era languages has proved to be almost impossible to process. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto, especially our modified version of it in DLT, was much easier to parse than English, due largely to the ways of avoiding ambiguity in sentences like the ones mentioned above, among others, even though English is presumably less inflection-based than some consider Esperanto to be. Actually, Esperanto is not inflection-based in the sense that Latin, Russian, and German are. There are certain morphemes which are written as one word with the root, but these morphemes do not vary according to noun class, etc. and the form of the root never changes. So it would be more accurate to say that Esperanto is an agglutinative language like Turkish or Japanese. The essential difference between Esperanto and Glosa [ed.: another artificial language] is that in Esperanto many of the signposts are written as part of the same word, whereas in Glosa they are always written as a separate word. But in both languages the signposts have exactly one form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Lojban function words may be written free or compounded as a mere matter of orthography. Lojban content words (predicates) may be compounded and taken apart again unambiguously, but the compounds are not identified with their underlying word sequences, although there is naturally a close semantic relationship.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Parsing algorithms started out with a simple L-R sequential approach, because this is the way language works, at its basic level. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess it&#039;s usually true that programming languages operate sequentially, but they also have braces and so on to tell us what goes with what.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Lojban has braces of various sorts, but achieves naturalness (unlike most programming languages) by a systematic mechanism for eliding right terminators where no ambiguity (as rigorously tested by a parsing algorithm) can result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Function words in natural languages are not generally as specific as the devices used by programmers. &amp;quot;that&amp;quot; (if you know it&#039;s not the pronoun) tells us that a new clause is beginning, but doesn&#039;t tell you what this clause goes with or where it ends. I think this kind of problem can be found to varying degrees in any constructed language invented so far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Except Lojban, where there is never any doubt.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is nevertheless not a serious problem for speakers, because they have context and meaning to help disambiguate (most of the time). But if we are constructing languages which can be used by computers as well as humans, then we have to make our signposts more explicit or we have to wait until computational linguists like me, the AI people who work on human language, and our programmer colleagues find ways to make computers understand meaning and context as well as humans do. These are the real stumbling blocks for computers much more than complex declensions and conjugations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Agreed. Lojban provides an unambiguous syntax to clear away questions of syntax early, thus allowing the effort to be spent on semantics, the true heart of language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[In response to further comments that English and Esperanto can also make disambiguations parallel to the Lojban versions, it was explained that the key point is that not only are the Lojban versions unambiguous, but that these are the simple and natural expressions to be used and that furthermore there are NO versions of these sentences in Lojban that DO express the ambiguities of the original sentences.]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lojban Fluency? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ken Miner (a linguist at the University of Kansas) made the following comment about Lojban on the computer news-group &amp;quot;sci.lang&amp;quot;. Lojbanist Ivan Derzhanski, also a linguist, responded [indented]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A friendly comment: this project [Lojban] ought also to be of interest to linguists concerned with universals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It ought, oughtn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would be of interest if human beings could learn to speak and understand it fluently; it would be of even greater interest if children could acquire it from their parents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: If it is true that natural (and planned but natural-like, such as Esperanto) human languages are learnable only because they are built upon a hardwired structure (Universal Grammar), then Lojban should not be learnable in the natural way, as it violates much if not most of what is currently thought of as being universal. I&#039;m afraid that we won&#039;t get away with running an experiment, though, as its side effects may include a few language-impaired kids, if my expectations are correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I dunno - consider A. N. Prior, a guy who has written a lot on tense logic: he uses symbolic logic in the Polish notation, which is sort of like Japanese syntax backwards. With a little practice, you can start thinking in it in a sense - you become &amp;quot;fluent&amp;quot; in it, as he is. (You have to, to read his works.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No natural language has a syntax like an SOV language backwards (go ahead, somebody, pounce; note that it wouldn&#039;t be like the rare VOS type at all). Yet you can learn to process it. Ditto for master programers. All that&#039;s lacking is a spoken form...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Certainly you can learn to think in it (and you can become fluent in it), but the kind of learning it takes is quite different, isn&#039;t it, from a child&#039;s acquisition of his first language. I&#039;m not convinced that you could have learned symbolic logic in your mother&#039;s lap, using the same miraculous language acquisition mechanism that you used to learn English (&amp;quot;for although we&#039;ve been talking since we were three, / how anyone can is a big mystery&amp;quot;). Neither am I convinced that you couldn&#039;t; I&#039;m just wondering.&lt;br /&gt;
:: And it just might be the case that you must use the first few years of your life to acquire some natural or natural-like language, and if you don&#039;t, you&#039;ll never be able to learn any later on. I&#039;m not sure that a child whose only native language is symbolic logic won&#039;t grow up as a live computer, fluent in that system, but unable to deal with natural language. Again, I&#039;m not sure of the opposite either. Project &amp;quot;Mowgli&amp;quot;, anyone?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe some people have learned to speak Lojban fluently. That alone would be interesting. It certainly ought to be worth fooling around with.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: So far all of those who can generate and understand Lojban text have learnt it as a foreign language, moreover, as an incarnation of predicate logic, to which all have had a prior theoretic exposure. That&#039;s not how we learnt our respective first languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bruce Gilson then noted that Lojban is not actually spoken fluently by anyone, even by Lojbab. Ken commented:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s a very interesting datum. I wonder if anyone or any group became fluent in the earlier Loglan? When you consider that this project has been around since 1955, and that some of its primary goals sort of depend on this very thing...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to hear more about this. Does LeChevalier himself say he does not really qualify as fluent, or is that your judgment, and if the latter, roughly what criteria for fluency were you applying?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I responded with the following:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bruce is correct that no one is fluent in Lojban, and that I am the most fluent in the language, but not really &#039;fluent&#039; in the sense that linguists use the term.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: The state of the art improves all of the time, of course. I can state rather categorically that there was no real fluency in any previous version of Loglan. Indeed, Lojban is the first version to really support the needs of conversation. JCB reports having had conversation sessions back in the late 70s, but I&#039;ve talked to participants in those &#039;conversations&#039;, and I think heard some tapes once or was told about them. Basically a lot of dead silence with sounds of paper shuffling, because no one other than JCB had enough vocabulary solid to even make a sentence without looking up one or more words in a word list. There was &#039;conversation&#039; only that there was no resort to English. The bulk of the sessions was groping, in Loglan, to find the right words that someone could understand.&lt;br /&gt;
:: That was 15 years ago.&lt;br /&gt;
:: In 1987, after only 6 months, my wife and I reached the same point with the then-budding Lojban version. On our honeymoon, without word lists, and each of us knowing around 300 words (but often not overlapping), we were able to &#039;converse&#039; for about an hour with no word lists, using repetition, pointing, and paraphrase to get across the words we didn&#039;t know. It seemed very much like the process whereby one might learn a language my total immersion. But we tried it only once.&lt;br /&gt;
:: In 1989, 5 of us sustained conversation, with word lists, for about 4 hours. By that time I knew the vocabulary well enough that I rarely used the word list. A couple of months later, we had several such sustained conversations, while driving from Washington to Boston, but with Nora and I both not using word lists. Early in 1991, we started having weekly conversation sessions in Lojban, typically 1-2 hours, in which relatively little use of word lists occurred by the 4 main participants. However, we usually had at least one less skilled person present, and not using word lists did not mean that people didn&#039;t have to stop typically once or twice in each sentence to think of the word they wanted, and repeat things once or twice for those who missed something. These conversations lasted until one of the 4 was injured in an auto accident last Feb., leaving us with only 3 regulars, which we have found makes for too sparse a conversation. We have just finished a new Lojban class, which will add another couple of conversation participants to the weekly group for fall 1992.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Basically the reason why there is no fluent Lojban speech yet is two-fold:&lt;br /&gt;
:: 1) for almost no one is there an opportunity to use the language often enough to gain fluency; only here in DC have we gotten people to even try to sustain conversation, much less do so regularly. My wife and I probably could run our household in Lojban and quickly become fluent, but I have some specific reasons for avoiding this - I don&#039;t want our usage, already rather dominating in the community learning the language, to become a de facto idiom; instead I want several people able to speak the language and write in it, thus developing a more natural idiom, even if it takes longer. There is also the emotional and mental drain to be considered - I&#039;m already putting most of my time into the language, and I need a break once in a while, at least until others have gotten up to the level where I am at.&lt;br /&gt;
:: 2) because there has been relatively little advanced usage, Lojban remains a pidgin. We have about 2000 solid vocabulary words, which is enough to converse and communicate, but not to converse fluently. We have the means to make any additional words for concepts that we need, but making up words is not a fluent language activity. I am quite skilled at coming up with communicative and productive usages on the fly, but not at fluent speeds. Hence my working vocabulary is 2000 words, though I probably have used perhaps 3000-4000 different words in my Lojban speaking career. These words are going to have to be recorded in dictionaries, and in written usages for the mass of Lojbanists (most of whom are not local to me) to learn about. In addition, I suspect that vocabulary level needs to reach more like 5000-10000, with most of the words on spontaneous recall, before fluent conversation will be sustainable. Given the great amount of technical and specialized vocabulary that pervades most conversation that I experience (and which is necessary to keep a conversation going for hours - you can only say so much about the weather today zo&#039;o), I could not comfortably talk for hours without having such a vocabulary on tap. English speakers vocabularies are estimated as being much larger than this, of course, but Lojban gains some considerable efficiency from its predicate structure wherein words serve as nouns, verbs, and adjectives interchangeably.&lt;br /&gt;
:: The obvious question is &amp;quot;why is it taking so long?&amp;quot; The answer is that it hasn&#039;t been a high enough priority for very many people. Secondary reasons for this include the geographical dispersion of Lojbanists (our best writers are Nick Nicholas in Australia, Ivan Derzhanski in Scotland, Iain Alexander and Colin Fine in England, Veijo Vilva in Finland, John Cowan in New York, and myself in Washington DC).&lt;br /&gt;
:: But another key point is that there are no fluent speakers because there are no fluent speakers to learn from. Those of us bootstrapping the language are the examples for everyone else, but who do we learn from. In writing we can learn from each other, which is why Lojban writing has progressed far beyond speech in skill level, but until we have a cluster of people in one location who are willing to make the commitment to use Lojban at a much higher level than 1 hour a week, we won&#039;t achieve fluent speech.&lt;br /&gt;
:: We are in the process of publishing the first books about Lojban, and when those are available, I suspect that there will be people willing to make that commitment. So this situation may change within the next year or two. Our experience 5 years ago on our honeymoon has convinced me that there is no reason that Lojban itself is insufficient or incapable of being spoken fluently.&lt;br /&gt;
:: (By the way, to avoid the inevitable comparison, I should note that Esperanto also did not catch on until there was a book to learn from. It grew much faster because its vocabulary is so strongly derivative of the European word stock, whereas Loglan/Lojban by intent must not be so derivative. Even so, I have heard that the watershed moment when Esperanto really &#039;succeeded&#039; did not come until something like 1904, when people at their international conference discovered to both pleasure and surprise that the language was finally well enough known to such a degree that the meeting could be conducted in spontaneous and fairly fluent Esperanto. That was 17 years after Zamenhof&#039;s book, and I&#039;ve heard that Esperanto was in formation for at least 8 years before the book was published. While Lojban has recaptured all of the research benefits of the earlier Loglan developments, we basically started the language definition process from scratch in 1987. I don&#039;t think we will be waiting 17 years for spontaneous fluent speech.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Ken responded, leading to the following exchange:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... I ... probably will have further reaction, but for the moment: while comparisons with Esperanto (which I have spoken fluently since my youth, but not natively) are indeed inevitable, a better comparison would be with Volapk, Esperanto&#039;s predecessor, which while naturalistic was less so than Esperanto, having I think more case endings than Finn-ish yet allowing Germanic-type compounding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This whole area of how new languages &amp;quot;get going&amp;quot; is fascinating. It relates to modern Israeli Hebrew as well. Re what you said about not wanting a small group to fix usage too soon: that seems to be what happened to Esperanto, maybe on a larger scale. I don&#039;t know whether you&#039;re an Esperantist but I and others have often been impressed by the extent to which Esperanto became &amp;quot;a real European language&amp;quot; when it had the potential, and the theoretical underpinnings, to develop along completely different lines. I see that as the problem with Lojban. You need speakers, early in the game, with diverse linguistic backgrounds. Otherwise it&#039;s going to develop along the lines of &amp;quot;standard average European.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Exactly, and even worse, given that I myself have been monolingual English speaker (whereas Zamenhof and his associates were predominantly polyglots to start with), I recognize that relying on my usage to set the patterns is particularly risky for cultural neutrality.&lt;br /&gt;
:: In written usage, we seem to be meeting your goals. With the major people writing in the language including a Greek-Australian, a Finn, and a Bulgarian polyglot with professional linguistics training, our stylistics is developing somewhat independent of myself. Further, by recognizing the importance of cultural neutrality, I am very forward about indicating which of my usages are tentative, and in screening myself for cultural bias. &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; (damnably-English-like) was one of the first compounds to gain widespread use, and I&#039;m proud of having coined and pushed it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lesson from Another Constructed Language ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following, translated from Esperanto by Don Harlow from the referenced article, indicates the dangers of uncontrolled change and/or change in a constructed language controlled by &amp;quot;people who were linguistically very undisciplined&amp;quot;. Novial was a major artificial language invented by one of the most noted linguists of his time, and for a while attracted a significant following (it basically supplanted Ido, the major splinter from Esperanto), but it apparently died from uncontrolled change.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following comes from Carlevaro, Tazio: &amp;quot;Mondlingvaj akademioj&amp;quot;, in Haupenthal, Reinhard (ed.): &amp;quot;Li kaj ni&amp;quot;, Antwerp-La Laguna: Stafeto, 1985, pp. 389-390:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The well-known Danish linguist Jespersen, who had already collaborated in the creation of Ido, in 1928 proposed a new neo-Latinoid language project Novial (Nov International Auxiliari Lingue). In 1929 a handful of ex-Idists joined it, along with the otherwise well known Ido magazine Mondo. In 1934 Jespersen decided to radically reform the language to bring it nearer to Occidental. But it became obvious that the Novialists were people who were linguistically very undisciplined, and for this reason, and perhaps also because Jespersen didn&#039;t have the time to get very deeply occupied in his project, the Lingual Jurie del Novalistes was founded (1937) and proposed new improvements and changes. This did not, however, reduce the linguistic chaos in the movement itself, because this committee&#039;s decisions were not mandatory but only indicative. Novial, together with its language committee, disappeared during the second world war.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Lojban Pangram ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Mark Shoulson issued a challenge on Lojban list for a Lojban &#039;pangram&#039;, a sentence as short as possible that contains all of the letters of the Lojban alphabet. Examples from English include &amp;quot;The quick brown fox slyly jumped over the lazy dog.&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Pack my box with five dozen liquor jugs.&amp;quot; Mark wrote:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here comes the quest for the Lojban pangram. Guidelines should be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No cmene or le&#039;avla. Cop-out.&lt;br /&gt;
* All Lojban symbols except &amp;quot;,&amp;quot; (which only happens in cmene and le&#039;avla) must appear (not counting such optionals as &amp;quot;;&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;:&amp;quot;, but counting &amp;quot;.&amp;quot;, even though it&#039;s optional. &amp;quot;.&amp;quot; may only be placed at a required pause, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
* It must be a grammatical utterance.&lt;br /&gt;
* No fair using zoi (non-Lojban quotes) or lo&#039;u/le&#039;u (ungrammatical text quotes) to throw in nonsense to get tough letters.&lt;br /&gt;
* No experimental or unknown cmavo, of course.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Desiderata:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It should be a bridi (a complete Lojban sentence), not just a bare sumti or a string of exclamations.&lt;br /&gt;
* It should not have sumti in undefined places, if possible (e.g. nothing in the x6 place of &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot; or whatnot, even though that parses).&lt;br /&gt;
* It should have some sort of comprehensible meaning, though it may be nonsense (i.e. the meaning needn&#039;t be reasonable, but it should be capable of being understood in some fashion).&lt;br /&gt;
* It should be as short as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
* It shouldn&#039;t use letterals just to get letters in cheaply. In fact, avoid letterals if you can, except maybe to get &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
* lujvo should be used sparingly, and if used, should make sense somehow. You can get &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; using hesitation or letterals, but don&#039;t turn down an otherwise good sentence because of a lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The desiderata are roughly in order of importance. I&#039;d imagine it&#039;s a little easier to find a pangram in Lojban than in English, although finding a good one (where &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; is defined something like above) isn&#039;t easy in almost any language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Have fun with it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Colin Fine responded with the following admirably-complete analysis:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming Mark&#039;s rules, but avoiding letterals or hesitation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are 17 consonants and only 5 vowels. All brivla are more consonant-rich than all cmavo. So use as many brivla as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ignoring, &amp;quot;.&#039;y&amp;quot;, the best ratio you can get in a sentence with gismu only is 3 consonants/2 vowels; 17 consonants requires 6 words, for a total length of 30. Using 2 CV cmavo instead of one gismu improves this to 29.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
dzipo gluta fe re baxso ckini jmive&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(They&#039;re) antarctic gloves of two Malay-relative living things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To add the missing symbols:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;.&amp;quot; uses up one or two vowels - either [selma&#039;o] I or UI&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot; uses up two vowels. We can combine these in UI, or in a cmavo or lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;y&amp;quot; requires a lujvo (if we are not using letterals or hesitation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Minimising use of lujvo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two strategies suggest themselves for this goal. Either use a (single) consonant-rich lujvo of the form &amp;quot;CVCyCCV&amp;quot; and use UI for the other two. Inserting (a single instance of the form) &amp;quot;.V&#039;V CVCyCCV&amp;quot; covers 4C, 4V at a cost of 11 characters altogether, or use a (single) CVCyCV&#039;V-form lujvo and a V cmavo: &amp;quot;.V CVCyCV&#039;V&amp;quot; covers 3C, 4V at a cost of 10 characters altogether. The latter approach is shorter, but since the total number of different consonants is 2 mod 3, would require two cmavo, giving a total length of 34, against 33 for the first strategy. Therefore the minimal solution with only one (two-element) lujvo is of form &amp;quot;.V&#039;V CVCyCCV CV gismu gismu gismu gismu&amp;quot; (with the order of these elements completely free)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.e&#039;u zadyfra pa baxso ckini jmive gluta (33 characters)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Let&#039;s react more to a Malay-related living thing&#039;s glove!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Allowing free use of lujvo CVC rafsi have the highest consonant/vowel ratio possible in the language, so the answer is clearly going to involve one or more long lujvo with lots of CVC&#039;s. An obvious strategy is (CVC)n-CV&#039;V = 2n+1 consonants, n+2 vowels, Thus with &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; at the beginning (we can&#039;t use any other V word unless we have some sumti), and one juncture requiring &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;, we get:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i CVCCVCCVCCVCCVCCVCCVCCVCyCV&#039;V (31 chars.) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i cabjagnixtulroskazdempafyva&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The currently-resulting girl&#039;s-leg prose has the quality of dense father value&amp;quot; (or something)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once you&#039;ve got the structure, they&#039;re easy to concoct, and I&#039;ve no doubt somebody can come up with better ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The challenge to the community is to propose some better pangrams using any of these forms. I know of at least one Lojban poet (Michael Helsem) who will probably have a field day with this kind of challenge. We will print the best submittals in a future issue of JL.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== An Alternative Orthography for Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Editor&#039;s note: This is an optional alternative to the current Lojban writing system, not a change or replacement. In short, this proposal is a way to write Lojban so that it looks more like any other version of Loglan, and hence be more palatable to JCB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think that any Lojbanist considers the alternative more desirable than what we do now - we made the current Lojban orthography in order to better reflect the way people will learn and speak the language (although the use of doubled consonants for syllabics might actually be an improvement if used throughout the language - TLI Loglan uses this convention only for syllabic consonants in borrowings, and not in lujvo.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, having an orthography that looks more &#039;normal&#039; to JCB is an advantage in trying to reach a long term solution to our differences - something that we have long sought. By having a set of standard mappings between the two orthographies, it becomes relatively trivial for someone to write a program that can convert text written in one orthography to the other form. Thus TLI Loglanists would have to do a minimum of relearning to be able to start participating in the Lojban community, should such an orthography option be part of the resolution of our differences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The alternate orthography is thus a mapping from Lojban back to the original orthography of Loglan, with a couple of things that JCB added after the split like the doubled letters for syllabic consonants. Thus, JCB used &amp;quot;ao&amp;quot; for the diphthong that we write in Lojban as &amp;quot;au&amp;quot;. JCB doesn&#039;t use apostrophes in non-diphthong VV pairs. (He has never addressed the problem that we resolved through the devoiced glide). He uses &#039;h&#039;, but &#039;x&#039; as a distinct phoneme is found only in names, whereas historically, Loglan considered our &#039;x&#039; to be an allophone of &#039;h&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
NOTE: This document is not an official policy of the Logical Language Group and has not been endorsed by the LLG or its Board (to which, for my sins, I belong). Still less is it endorsed by any other non-profit organization concerned with the development of logical languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This note proposes an alternative orthography for Lojban. The orthography here described is not intended to replace the existing standard orthography. Nothing in this note is intended as a proposal for change either in Lojban&#039;s orthography or its phonology. The purpose of the alternative orthography is to provide a way of writing Lojban which visually resembles the conventions used by earlier versions of the Loglan language, including the version proposed in the 4th edition of Loglan 1 (1989).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The standard Lojban orthography makes use of 23 letters of the Roman alphabet, viz. a b c d e f g i j k l m n o p r s t u v x y z, plus the three signs:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
apostrophe &amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot; for a voiceless intervocalic glide roughly similar to English /h/;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
comma &amp;quot;,&amp;quot; for a voiced intervocalic glide; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
period &amp;quot;.&amp;quot; for a pause or glottal stop. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Capitalization is used to represent abnormal non-penultimate stress in names: the syllable to be stressed is capitalized in its entirety.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The letters i and u are used in three ways: as full vowels, in the falling diphthongs ai ei oi au, and in the rising diphthongs ia ie ii io iu ua ue ui uo uu. The rising diphthongs appear only as stand-alone words and in names and borrowings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The letters r l m n are used as normal consonants and as syllabic consonants (in names and borrowings only).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Double letters are never used for any purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The alternative orthography [approximating the TLI system] makes the following substitutions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The letter &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; is replaced in all uses by &amp;quot;h&amp;quot;. It is useful to emphasize here that this does not represent a change in pronunciation.&lt;br /&gt;
# The diphthong au is replaced by ao.&lt;br /&gt;
# The apostrophe, which in the standard orthography is used only between vowels, is replaced in the following ways:&lt;br /&gt;
## In a&#039;a a&#039;e a&#039;u e&#039;a e&#039;e e&#039;o e&#039;u o&#039;a o&#039;e o&#039;o o&#039;u, it is dropped, producing aa ae au ea ee eo eu oa oe oo ou.&lt;br /&gt;
## In a&#039;i a&#039;o e&#039;i o&#039;i, it is replaced by comma (symbolizing the syllable break that accompanies the glide) producing a,i a,o e,i o,i.&lt;br /&gt;
## In i&#039;a i&#039;e i&#039;i i&#039;o i&#039;u u&#039;a u&#039;e u&#039;i u&#039;o u&#039;u, it is dropped, producing ia ie ii io iu ua ue ui uo uu; except that when these diphthongs appear standing alone (as cmavo of selma&#039;o UI), or in names and borrowings, it is replaced by comma, producing i,a i,e i,i i,o i,u u,a u,e u,i u,o u,u.&lt;br /&gt;
# Capitalization is used for the first letter of names, and for the cmavo &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;, which is written &amp;quot;I&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Periods before words are dropped.&lt;br /&gt;
# Periods after words are replaced by comma. This comma cannot be confused with the comma of 3b and 3c, because that cannot appear at the end of a word. However, periods at the end of names are dropped.&lt;br /&gt;
# Syllabic r l m n are written rr ll mm nn, and need not be set off by comma.&lt;br /&gt;
# Other uses of comma are retained. When doubt arises whether a comma represents a voiced or a voiceless glide, the voiceless glide is preferred.&lt;br /&gt;
# Stress is indicated by an apostrophe following the vowel of the stressed syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, the alternative orthography is much more &amp;quot;context-sensitive&amp;quot; than the standard orthography. Two consecutive vowels in the standard orthography always represent a diphthong; in the alternative orthography, they may represent a diphthong, two syllables with a voiceless glide, or two syllables with a voiced glide, depending on the particular two vowels and on the kind of word in which they appear. On the other hand, the difference between syllabic and consonantal r l m n is clearly marked in the alternative orthography.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a passage of Lojban (written by Nick Nicholas) in both orthographies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi na certu le se zajbrnatleta .iku&#039;i mi co&#039;a jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu no&#039;e snada tu&#039;a le la olimpik. nunjvi pe vi la tokios. .isa&#039;unai mi nu&#039;o zmadu zo&#039;epeca&#039;aku leni snada .iti&#039;e le mulno nizyji&#039;a cu te zmadu mi le gugdrkore&#039;a kuce&#039;o le gugdrnafganistana kuce&#039;o le gugdrkenia kuce&#039;o le gugdrtrinidada kuce&#039;o le xanto denci xaskoi gugde .iku&#039;i mi zmadu .u&#039;a le gugdrlixtenctaine .i lenu go&#039;i cu pluka nuzba .i zmadu pluka fau le nu&#039;o nu le gugdrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la olimpik.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi na certu le se zajbrrnatleta I kui mi coa jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu noe snada tua le la Olimpik nunjvi pe vi la Tokios I saunai mi nuo zmadu zoepecaaku leni snada I tie le mulno nizyjia cu te zmadu mi le gugdrrkorea kuceo le gugdrrnafganistana kuceo le gugdrrkenia kuceo le gugdrrtrinidada kuceo le xanto denci xaskoi gugde I kui mi zmadu u,a le gugdrrlixtenctaine I lenu go,i cu pluka nuzba I zmadu pluka fao le nuo nu le gugdrrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la Olimpik&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Criticisms of Lojban as a Tool for Machine Translation ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Rick Morneau posted some criticisms of Lojban as a language for machine translation (MT). John Cowan responded to these, which led Rick to try to clarify his objections. John Cowan then responded to the clarifications. The result is an excellent summary of a number of the most common criticisms of Lojban, and the arguments that we believe refute them.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here are the reasons why I feel that Lojban is poorly suited for use as an interlingua in machine translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Lojban claims that its words are self-segregating. Obviously, this feature is not needed for the analysis of written language, but it can greatly simplify the analysis of continuous speech. Unfortunately, Lojban requires the use of pauses in certain places in order to fully implement this feature. Enforced pauses are unnatural and, should Lojban ever attain a community of native speakers, these pauses will be one of the first things to disappear.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban pauses need not be the kind of pauses used by separated-word speech recognizers; a glottal stop is a sufficient equivalent of pause. The two main uses of pauses are after names and before words beginning with a vowel. In the first case, nothing will be able to do much better; existing speech-recognition systems simply punt on names in general, unless the name has been hard-wired into the system as a word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Glottal stops before words beginning with a vowel are common enough in the world&#039;s languages: consider German, which does not notate such glottal stops but whose speakers (of the standard dialect, anyway) invariably produce them. Not everybody speaks like anglophones - &amp;quot;English is the language you speak without moving your mouth&amp;quot;, as my mother (native German, near-native English) used to say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: In some cases this is true, especially when one word ends in a vowel and the next starts in a vowel. However, there are some cases where a glottal stop will not work:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: 1. if a word ends in a voiced nasal and the following word starts in an unvoiced fricative, stop or affricate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: 2. if a word ends in an unvoiced fricative and the following word starts in an unvoiced fricative, stop or affricate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: In these situations a glottal stop will either be impossible to detect, or will be eliminated through normal phonological processes. If, however, these juxtapositions can not occur in Lojban then I withdraw my criticism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: These juxtapositions can occur only if the first word is a name, and (as I said earlier) names are notoriously intractable. They can violate the phonotactics of the language in which they are embedded in random ways, and existing word-based speech processors simply punt on them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojbab adds: This item seems irrelevant to the issue that Rick says he is arguing. If he is solely concerned in his criticism with Lojban&#039;s suitability as an interlingua for machine translation of other languages, then recognizability of pauses in a Lojban speech stream is irrelevant because a machine translator would not be processing Lojban speech. Mandatory phonemic pauses affect how humans speak the language and not on how difficult it is to translate it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Answering the issue for the case of a machine attempting to understand spoken Lojban, I note that our statement is that a glottal stop is a sufficient allophone of the phoneme &amp;quot;pause&amp;quot;. If phonological processes cause a glottal stop to disappear, then under those circumstances a Lojban speaker will need a more exaggerated &#039;pause&#039;. A proper Lojban speaker will have sufficient pause in his or her dialect to separate the words. But errors in speech will occur. To say that such errors in speech are a burden on the machine is a truism; we can also say that it is a burden on the machine if the speaker lisps, slips in voiced consonants that are unvoiced, or speaks with stops that are insufficiently distinguished, all things that often happen in natural human speech.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Lojban syntax is too complex. Regardless of the syntactic formalism you swear by (transformational grammar, government/binding theory, generalized phrase structure grammar, lexical functional grammar, home-brew grammar, ad nauseam), a natural language minus its idioms and irregularities can be represented with an equivalent of fewer than three dozen production rules. If I remember correctly, Lojban syntax requires about ten times that number. Lojbanists claim that it is machine-parsable, and I&#039;m willing to take their word for it. However, an MT interlingua (IL) should have a syntax that is as simple as possible. A simple syntax not only makes it easier to parse the IL, but more importantly, it makes translating from the source language to the IL much easier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: As simple as possible, but no simpler. The Lojban grammar is a phrase structure grammar - it does not have any transformation (T) rules or their more modern equivalents. Chomsky introduced T rules, way back in Syntactic Structures, because he didn&#039;t want to have to deal with phrase structure grammars with (by guesswork) 104 to 105 rules. Lojban&#039;s 600-odd rules look pretty simple by comparison.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: The existing parser generates a complete parse of a 1600-word short story (with some pretty hairy grammar - it&#039;s a deliberately complex translation of a Saki short story) in about 15 seconds on a &#039;386 machine. The existing program is not optimized for speed worth a damn - I concentrated on maintainability. On a &#039;Real Computer&#039;, parsing effort will be absolutely negligible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Your response puzzled me. A fast computer is not adequate justification for creating inefficient code, especially when the MT application itself will be grasping greedily for every cpu cycle it can get. Also, Lojban&#039;s 600-odd rules (twice as many as I thought!) is still almost twenty times as much as needed. So, compared with a syntax designed explicitly for an MT IL, Lojban&#039;s parser requires only 20 times as much code as minimally necessary. This is quite a selling point!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 600 rules is for the full language. A pure interlingua application would be unlikely to generate the full language. A &amp;quot;core subset&amp;quot; could be constructed that would be far more rigid but far smaller, and yet truly be a subset.&lt;br /&gt;
:: However, I would also point to an argument given in The Elements of Programming Style. A tricky way of initializing a identity matrix in FORTRAN is given, and the text explains why it works. However, it then points out that the time taken to initialize such a matrix is always insignificant. In a program with small matrices, the time is insignificant in an absolute sense; in a program with large matrices, the time is insignificant relative to the time spent in all other matrix operations, which are typically n2 to n3 expensive.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Furthermore, for IL applications there is no real need to keep the Lojban in text form; the conversion from tree form to text form is absolutely trivial. (Lojban has no &amp;quot;obligatory transformations&amp;quot; in the sense of early Chomsky, so you print out the tree and strip the parentheses.)&lt;br /&gt;
:: [Lojbab adds: Rick is making a big issue out of rule counts that are specific to the format in which they are presented - the language of input to the YACC processor that verifies their unambiguity. Another rule format describing the same language, the E-BNF included with this issue of JL, has only about 80 rules. Of the E-BNF rules, 15 are associated with the grammar of mathematics (MEX), and 12 are associated with the tense system (described in John Cowan&#039;s paper that accompanied JL16), leaving perhaps 50 to cover the whole remainder of the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
:: By comparison, Rick in a separate posting gave a sample E-BNF set of rules for what he considered an extremely &amp;quot;simple&amp;quot; grammar for a constructed language which has at least 40 E-BNF rules, but not specifying any MEX or tense grammar, even though all language has at least some rudiments of each.&lt;br /&gt;
:: For an interlingua translation system, mathematical text would be translated notationally, not in words, and hence MEX would not need to be part of a machine translation system. Thus MEX is an example of John&#039;s statement that machine translation using Lojban would implement only a subset of the Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Tense is an example of one of the many features of natural language that are not easily represented in a very simple language. You might end up with an optimal language for internal data processing, but it is so cumbersome to use for humans that they cannot significantly input or read the internal texts. Lojban tenses, expressing relationships in space and time about the referents of the sentences they occur in, could easily be expressed using expanded predicates (and the conversion from tense to predicate is probably trivial for most cases that would occur in natural language), but the resulting text would be longer and no easier to convert to the tense structure of another language.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Clearly. Lojban is not &amp;quot;20 times what is needed&amp;quot;, but rather is probably fairly close in size to Rick&#039;s &#039;minimal&#039; grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Rick also misinterprets John&#039;s statement that he did not design the parser for speed, and he jumped to a false conclusion. John&#039;s parser was designed for maintainability, to minimize programming time, which is our critical resource these days. &amp;quot;Inefficient code&amp;quot; has plenty of &amp;quot;excuse&amp;quot; when it gets the job done without affecting critical resources. But Lojban can have faster processing: Jeff Taylor&#039;s earlier parser, limited in text capacity, could do 1/4 of Saki in about 5 seconds on a much slower 286 machine.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Finally, of course, Lojban has the advantage of being usable both for internal processing as well as by the linguists/natural language processing people who are building the knowledge engine (see our DARPA proposal in JL16).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Lojban&#039;s predicate logic is not very &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; in the way it is used to represent natural language. (It may be &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; for testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, but this has no bearing on its use as an MT IL.) It&#039;s assignment of place structures is too arbitrary and inflexible for use as an MT IL. In most natural language processing applications, a sentence is represented using case frames or a close equivalent. (In brief, case frames are a practical and elegant implementation of basic X-bar theory, which, in my opinion, gives tremendous credibility to its claim of crosslinguistic applicability.) Lojban&#039;s inflexible place structures and [selma&#039;o] BAI bandaids are not only counterintuitive, but they force the computer to treat language structures differently when they are essentially the same. Each predicate, in effect, has a built-in irregularity which requires extra processing by the computer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The present list does not do the fact justice, but there are in fact cross-predicate patterns of place structures. Furthermore, it was believed to be more important to get each word as nearly right as possible than to shoe-horn the words into some existing framework. There is simply a lot more complexity in the Real World (TM) than typical Schankian frames allow for; lots and lots of idiosyncrasy. Still and all, 1300 place structures is simply not a whopping amount: even given that we don&#039;t believe it&#039;s possible to derive the place structures of compounds algorithmically from the place structures of the underlying roots, those roots do constrain the resultant place structures to a marked degree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: John interpreted my use of &amp;quot;case frames&amp;quot; as synonymous with Schankian scripts. Actually, the two are not related at all. My mention of X-bar theory should have clarified the matter, except, of course, to those who are unfamiliar with X-bar theory. My apologies.&lt;br /&gt;
:: In a case frame representation, each node can be represented by a head and its modifiers. This is the essence of X-bar theory. Thus, a frame representing a noun phrase would have the main noun as its head and the modifiers as adjuncts that follow the head in the frame. (A modifier can also be a complete relative clause, in which case it would be represented by the equivalent of a separate sub-frame). A sentence would have the main verb as its head, and noun phrases that are arguments of the verb would, in effect, be its modifiers. These structures, of course, are recursive. Note that, syntactically, all elements in a frame that modify their heads are treated equally. Note also, that these case frames are simply an easy way to represent syntactic trees in a computer. Lojban predicates and their designer-selected, pseudo-thematic place structures force arguments to be treated differently when they are essentially the same. In other words, some branches of the tree will require different code to handle than other branches. Nothing is gained except counter-productive complexity.&lt;br /&gt;
:: So, although Lojban&#039;s predicate structures do not make the job impossible, they do make it much more difficult than it has to be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: I do not understand this argument. There seems to be a shift between talk of syntax and talk of semantics. The arguments of a Lojban predicate are syntactically all equal; semantically, each one plays a specified role. Which role can be determined by looking in the dictionary, or if the word is a compound which is not in the dictionary, by applying a set of heuristics. (Despite several efforts, those heuristics have not yet been defined.)&lt;br /&gt;
::: To take an English example, &amp;quot;I see the dog&amp;quot; involves a predicate &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; and two arguments &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the dog&amp;quot;. The definition of &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; determines which of these is the seer and which the seen, but Lojban treats them as syntactically identical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Lojban&#039;s list of concept primitives (gismu) is inadequate and lacks semantic motivation. Now, I&#039;ve read hand-waving arguments claiming that the gismu are not semantic primitives. Yet that is exactly the way they are used. The fact is, an awful lot of work has been done in both computational and theoretical linguistics in the search for a meaningful set of semantic primitives. A few examples are Silvio Ceccato&#039;s semantic hierarchies (circa 1950-1960), Yorick Wilks semantic primitives (circa 1977), Roger Schank&#039;s primitive ACTs (circa 1977), Donald Fass&#039;s comprehensive genus classification (mid 1980&#039;s), Anna Wierzbicka&#039;s semantic primitives (1970-1980), and, most recently, Kathleen Dahlgren&#039;s knowledge representation work (1989). Any one of these systems could be used as is, or modified for use in the design of an AL. And any one of them would have provided a solid foundation for the semantics of an AL. Now, I realize that Loglan got its start before most of the work I mentioned above. However, Loglanists and Lojbanists have been modifying and repairing their languages since then, and, as far as I&#039;m concerned, if something is broken it should be fixed. This is especially true if Lojban is to be suitable for use as an MT IL, and if its semantics are to be as &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; as its other features.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The best indication that none of these &amp;quot;semantic primes&amp;quot; systems is fully adequate for mapping the real world is the very fact that there are so many of them. The empirical derivation of the gismu list is admitted. Some of the words do not belong in any list of semantic primes, and others exist for historical reasons only. We do repair things, but only when they are demonstrably broken; there has been no effort to reduce the number of gismu en masse. We in Lojbanistan (he said) simply do not believe that there exists any truly comprehensive semantic system for mapping the immense variety of real-world predicates into a categorical or hierarchical system. Instead, the gismu are meant to blanket semantic space, ensuring that what needs to be expressed can be expressed. Even so, large areas of semantically &amp;quot;shallow&amp;quot; but &amp;quot;broad&amp;quot; space are underserved: foods, cultures, materials, living organisms. These semantic areas will be covered by borrowings from natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Of course there isn&#039;t a system, otherwise linguists wouldn&#039;t be working on it. What I failed to make clear was that there&#039;s no need for a comprehensive, unchallenged theory on which one could base the design of an AL. Keep in mind that linguists are trying to develop a theory that will correctly describe and explain the totality of human language. An AL designer needs only a single, simple system that can be applied rigorously and that is sufficiently robust to allow any human language statement to be accurately converted into the AL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: &amp;quot;A single, simple system [of semantics]&amp;quot; - ah, there&#039;s the rub. How can you be sure that your &amp;quot;single, simple system&amp;quot;, presumably designed a priori, really does cover everything? Lojban&#039;s gismu list is a posteriori and merges semantic lists from several different sources. It may not be the most tractable possible list, but it is a usable list in a deep sense. Furthermore, the same consideration mentioned under syntax applies here. There is no reason to suppose that the IL generator will have sufficient smarts (or resources) to generate text that involves every one of the 1300-odd root words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: [Lojbab adds: That there is no semantic theory in our selection of basic roots need not be a failing - one has to show that some semantic theory is universally enough true to give a better result. But since we contend to be able to express most any concept within Lojban, it doesn&#039;t really matter what our set of roots are.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: If you&#039;re still not convinced, then consider this: there is not yet a single comprehensive theory of syntax. Did this lack of a comprehensive theory prevent the Lojban designers from designing a rigorous, machine-tractable syntax?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: The history of the Loglan Project shows that the rigorous machine-tractable syntax was not actually achieved until a systematic re-design of the grammar was undertaken using YACC as an indispensable tool. I do not mean that the language was changed to make YACC-ing easier; the only changes made were those forced by the goal of &amp;quot;0 shift-reduce, 0 reduce-reduce conflicts found&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: If the theory and practice of LALR(1) parsing was not so well understood, I doubt that Lojban would have a &amp;quot;rigorous, machine-tractable syntax&amp;quot;. There is simply nothing comparable in the semantic domain for checking the correctness and completeness of a design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Lojban&#039;s process of creating compound words from its set of primitives seems to depend on contextual disambiguation for proper understanding. In other words, it is as &amp;quot;illogical&amp;quot; as the same process in natural languages. (I believe that Jim Carter has criticized Loglanists for this lack.) In computer translation, the computer will often run into a situation where a compound word in the IL does not have a counterpart in the target language. In this situation, the computer must be able to break up the word into an equivalent phrase or clause. In other words, the computer must be able to generate a paraphrase of the relationship between the more primitive components of the compound. You can, of course, put this information in the dictionary, but this solution is not at all practical if you want to keep your dictionaries simple, and if you want to have one dictionary per natural language usable for both source and target translation. I could say much more on this extremely important topic, but to do so would take more time than I have, and this thing is already too long. In summary, though, an IL designed for use in MT must be maximally and reversibly compositional.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: There are two separate points to sort out here: the mapping of compounds to phrases, and the explication of phrases. Every compound can be mapped to a phrase, and potentially every phrase to a compound, unambiguously and reversibly. What is left ambiguous is the precise set of compositional rules. Does &amp;quot;blanu zdani&amp;quot; (blue house) mean a house that is blue, a house part of which is blue, a house for inhabitants who are blue, a house that is blue in the appropriate way for houses, a house for people who are slowly turning blue,... Since the first requisite of Lojban is that it be speakable (it is a human language, not a code), not all ambiguity can be weeded out. Lojban works on removing structural ambiguity so that the real problems of semantic ambiguity can be openly faced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: lo cimni ka satci cu se jdima&lt;br /&gt;
:: lo cimni ni valsi&lt;br /&gt;
:: the-thing-which-is-an infinite type-of quality-of preciseness has-as-price the-thing-which-is-an infinite type-of quantity-of words&lt;br /&gt;
:: The price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I failed to make clear that such a compromise can be achieved along with the reversible compositionality that is needed in machine translation. For example, the English compound &amp;quot;houseboat&amp;quot; can be decomposed as &amp;quot;boat which functions as a house&amp;quot;. The compound &amp;quot;windowpane&amp;quot; can be decomposed as &amp;quot;pane which is part of a window&amp;quot;. In a machine translation application, the relationships &amp;quot;which functions as&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;which is a part of&amp;quot; must be explicitly stated in the compound word. This can always be done with the addition of a single morpheme which would, in effect, link the component morphemes and indicate the relationship that exists between them. This would normally mean an additional syllable (and, of course, an appropriately designed morphology), and apparently many people would object to this for esthetic reasons. However, one additional syllable is a small price to pay when the potential reward is so high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Without this simple &amp;quot;sacrifice&amp;quot;, your AL will be useless as an IL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Lojban compounds (whether closed or open) are by design semantically ambiguous. However, there are always paraphrases which disambiguate them. An IL generator would presumably not generate ambiguous compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. Finally, a logical language is inherently unsuitable for representing natural language. Lojban is called a logical language for good reason. It forces a speaker to express himself according to various rules of logic. Natural languages do not require a speaker to be logical in the same way. As a result, when translating from a natural language into Lojban, the computer will often have to fully understand what the speaker is saying (to &amp;quot;fill in the gaps&amp;quot;, so to speak), which is well beyond the capabilities needed for normal disambiguation. It is also well beyond the capabilities of computers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: But is it &amp;quot;well beyond the capabilities needed&amp;quot; in all cases? It seems to me that given two languages A and B, and three meanings a, b, c, that language A expresses a and b with an ambiguous sentence, whereas language B expresses b and c with an ambiguous sentence. If meaning b is intended, then translating ambiguity with ambiguity is a safe procedure - but in translating a from A into B, or c from B into A, the ambiguity must be tackled and resolved. A system that does not &amp;quot;fully understand what the speaker is saying&amp;quot; will inevitably make blunders of this type.&lt;br /&gt;
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:: The neutral framework of predicate logic which Lojban employs, being equally foreign to all natural languages, forces ambiguity to be squeezed out before a correct translation can be generated. (I am not referring here to the problem of translating intentional ambiguity, as in poetry, which is surely far beyond the state-of-the-art of any computer-based technique.) If all languages without exception deviated from predicate logic in the same ways, then the need for a neutral medium would not exist - but they don&#039;t. For example, Lojban can be neutral among languages that affirm a negative question with &amp;quot;No&amp;quot; (like English), with &amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot; (like Russian), and that repeat the negated verb (like Irish).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: How can &amp;quot;being equally foreign to all natural languages&amp;quot; be anything but an impassible barrier? An interlingua designed for use in machine translation must be, as much as humanly possible, a reductive and fundamental distillation of the essential features of natural language. Not even the slightest degree of &amp;quot;foreignness&amp;quot; can be tolerated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;The&amp;quot; essential features? Which are those? Unless you have a theory (or at least a set of heuristics) telling you the essential features, your project will be inherently parochialized by the particular case you choose to debug it with. Lojban is intended to provide a framework which minimizes metaphysical assumptions; thus S/W is assumed as a hypothesis (its falsity is the null hypothesis to be rejected). Therefore, the assumptions of the original must be spelled out in the Lojban version, which can then be interpreted and reduced by the process that composes the translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: John wrote the Lojban for &amp;quot;The price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: This is such a simple statement in English (and equally simple in Swahili and French and Indonesian and how many others?), yet how complex and convoluted it is in Lojban! I shudder at the thought of designing software that is smart enough to know that &amp;quot;infinite precision&amp;quot; must be paraphrased as &amp;quot;the-thing-which-is-an infinite type-of quality-of preciseness&amp;quot;, and that &amp;quot;infinite verbosity&amp;quot; must be paraphrased as &amp;quot;the-thing-which-is-an infinite type-of quantity-of words&amp;quot;. I&#039;m not even sure it&#039;s possible. The degree of understanding needed to generate these paraphrases may be required by natural language understanding systems, but not by machine translation systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: It is an aphorism of Lojbanic culture (such as it is), making use of the full resources of the Lojban language. The literal gloss is complex and convoluted, but that is because Lojban is not encoded English.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Somewhere or other, Jespersen has translations of &amp;quot;First come, first served&amp;quot;, an aphorism which is simple and terse in English, into French and Danish. The French isn&#039;t bad, but the Danish is incredibly verbose and downright baroque. I can just imagine what the Danish (Swahili, Bahasa Indonesia, ...) for &amp;quot;The more the merrier, but the fewer the better fare&amp;quot; looks like!&lt;br /&gt;
:: Anyhow, I meant to use the aphorism rather than mentioning it; I was pointing out that if Lojban is confined to fully explicit semantic forms, it will be unspeakable because too verbose. Even your glosses like &amp;quot;boat which functions as a house&amp;quot; are not really enough. Precisely which of the &amp;quot;functions&amp;quot; of the house are provided by the houseboat, and which are not? For example, one of the functions of a house may be to serve as a recipient of mail, but a houseboat typically does not. So you need something like &amp;quot;boat which functions as a house in that it provides shelter and a fixed platform for engaging in normal domestic behavior&amp;quot;. Each word in this expansion itself requires further expansion; in particular, &amp;quot;fixed&amp;quot; with respect to what? Obviously not the shore of the river!&lt;br /&gt;
:: [Lojbab adds:] In case the motivation for John&#039;s last point isn&#039;t clear, I want to point out that there may not be a word corresponding to &amp;quot;houseboat&amp;quot; in every natural language - or that might be more than one, with significant minor denotation differences based on exactly which functions are performed. Would the Chinese word for the boats that people live on in the rivers and ports of China be an accurate translation for English &amp;quot;houseboat&amp;quot; in every instance of the latter&#039;s occurrence.&lt;br /&gt;
:: I&#039;m not sure that a successful machine translation system can be anything less than a full-featured natural language system, unless you intend to have substantial human translator verification of every single word choice made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: In summary, I feel that an interlingua for use in machine translation must be as close as we can come to the elusive &amp;quot;universal grammar&amp;quot;. In attempting to provide a test for the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, Loglan designers have had no choice but to go in exactly the opposite direction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, most of the claims I&#039;ve heard about Lojban&#039;s suitability for use as an MT IL seem to be based on its underlying predicate structure. Now, many (most?) linguists and logicians are of the opinion that predicate logic is not suitable for representing natural language. Some, however, disagree and have created a school of semantics usually called Montague semantics (other names and minor variations are model-theoretic semantics, truth-conditional semantics and possible-worlds semantics). These linguists are attempting to do what Loglanists claim to have already done; i.e., developing a formal and unambiguous method for representing natural language. So, if you do in fact make this claim, then you might want to test it on the people who count the most - the Montague semanticists. Show them how predicate logic and its accessories can be used to represent natural language. If it means learning their lingo (and it probably will if you want to get their attention), then do it! The burden of proof, however, is on you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: [Lojbab responds: pc studied semantics under Montague at UCLA, and is quite capable of speaking the lingo. But Loglan does not claim to unambiguously handle semantics of natural language; indeed I claim that semantics is impossible to handle unambiguously because it is dependent on the whole of the speaker&#039;s and listener&#039;s background experiences as well as on the current context, and thus a virtually infinite amount of data is needed to capture the &amp;quot;total&amp;quot; meaning of a statement.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In summary, I do not feel that Lojban (or Glosa, or Esperanto, or Vorlin) is suitable for use as a machine translation interlingua, in spite of claims to the contrary. Most importantly, I see nothing in Lojban that would facilitate the most difficult aspect of machine translation: translating from a natural language to the interlingua. What I do see is an AL that has so little in common with natural languages, that translating between it and a natural language will be considerably more difficult than translating directly between natural languages. And this does not surprise me at all, considering that Loglan/Lojban was designed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Such a language, by its very nature, would be the antithesis of what is needed for an MT IL, no matter how &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; it is.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, I realize that much of what I&#039;ve said is potentially flammable. However, I&#039;d like to make it clear that I have no intention of angering anyone, and, if I have, please accept my apologies. I can even admit the possibility that I&#039;ve misunderstood some of the features of Lojban that I&#039;ve criticized (although I doubt it). Also, please keep in mind that I&#039;ve only criticized one aspect of Lojban - its claimed suitability for use as a machine interlingua. In most other respects I find Lojban to be a fascinating language, and, if I were not committed to learning other languages as part of my MT hobby, I would probably be studying Lojban (in spite of its ugly consonant clusters :-).&lt;br /&gt;
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: Lojbab: I would not be angry with Rick Morneau for what appears to be an honest difference of opinion. Nor do I say that Rick&#039;s arguments are ones that cannot or should not be raised. I believe that some of them do not apply to Lojban, some do not apply to Lojban as it would be used in an MT application, and some are simply irrelevant, or at best matters of opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: In some matters of opinion, there is not always an &#039;ironclad&#039; method of refuting them. The rule-counting game is an example, since comparing rule counts is so dependent on how they are stated, and what features of the language are included in the not-yet-designed Lojban machine translation system. Which rules would be used is going to be determined by the MT system designer based on factors that are not knowable now.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Lojban features such as the tense system each reflect things that occur in natural languages, and to eliminate one means that the translator will have to use software to simplify or paraphrase in translation into Lojban, though it might then simplify the processing out of Lojban thereafter, when the Lojban has to be processed.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Indeed in writing this last sentence, I realize that I believe the opposite of Rick. The basis of an interlingua-based MT system is to minimize language-specific processing for source and target languages, which processing expands at a higher degree polynomial of the number of languages in a non-interlingua system. An interlingua which is ultra-simplified requires that the source language be paraphrased in an ultra-simplified manner which may lose significant information that could be important to the translation.&lt;br /&gt;
:: For example, the English phrase &amp;quot;ship which is faster than light&amp;quot;, which may also be expressed as &amp;quot;faster-than-light ship&amp;quot;. Does an interlingua for MT need the capability to separately distinguish the two forms, which probably mean almost identical things, if not totally identical in meaning? This is a design decision, not a theory decision. If the target language offers equivalent forms to the two English variations, then preserving the form of the original is valuable in achieving a natural-seeming style in the output of the translation. If merely the information is to be transferred, then such stylistic preservation is wasted. Lojban has rules that support both forms. An MT system designer that did not care to support both forms could easily leave out one rule from the Lojban interlingua. But in a 10-language system, this potentially means that you must write 10 input processors to decide that such ordering information is to be simplified out into the single remaining Lojban (or other interlingua) form, and then you need 10 output processors that will decide based on some criteria which of two or more output forms in the target language will reflect the single Lojban form. Clearly, in such a situation, an oversimplified Lojban or other interlingua increases the processing required. The better interlingua is the one that can convey the maximum amount of complex information across the language boundaries.&lt;br /&gt;
:: As an example of one of Rick&#039;s claims that is an irrefutable argument, look at the claim that natural languages are too complex to be modelled by a logical language. If there is more that I am missing, I apologize. But this is an argument by assertion, since Rick has not posed any specific natural language feature that cannot be modelled by a logical language - he has merely argued from assumptions. That these assumptions are plausible does not mean that they are correct. While Rick states that logical analysis has failed in the case of Montague grammar semantics, another poster noted that Montague grammars have been used in MT systems.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Whether natural languages are too complex to be modelled by a logical language is probably indeterminate. For every example Rick poses, I may be able to find a counter, but this does not stop him from claiming that there are many more that I have not covered.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Since Lojban does not embed any particular semantic theory into its design, attacking Montague grammars doesn&#039;t say much about Lojban anyway. To say that our design is inadequate, you have to show how it fails. Rick has not. I would contend that he cannot, without getting much deeper into the Lojban design than he probably cares to.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Discussions on the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a discussion of Sapir-Whorf on the Linguist List linguistic mailing list &amp;quot;linguist@tamsun.tamu.edu&amp;quot;, Lojbab wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael Kac says:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
On the basis of unsystematic observation and impressionistic judgements which are confirmed by all other linguists I&#039;ve consulted, it would appear that the view that one&#039;s world view is determined by the language one speaks is nearly universally accepted by educated people who aren&#039;t linguists.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll concur, as well, and my primary interaction is with such people. The exceptions to this are correlated with politics, with some people (usually &#039;left&#039;) considering linguistic relativism to be racist. However, even these people are inconsistent, since the arguments about gender and pronouns/language-gender (including the recent one on Linguist List) inherently assume some form of language effect on world-view, or it wouldn&#039;t make any difference. Note that the occasionally emotive arguments in this latter discussion shows that even linguists may to some extent assume what they claim they don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Factors in the continuing belief include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) what people mean by &#039;world view&#039; and &#039;determined&#039; is different. Sapir-Whorf is generally understood to have strong and weak versions, with the strongest form almost certainly false because translation IS possible, and the weakest form true to the point of triteness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) the field of semiotics is heavily dependent on assuming linguistic relativism, and most educated people are more exposed to literary criticism than linguistic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
c) the continuing identification of political issues with the linguistic relativity assumption. As such, people are continually exposed to the assumption in daily life without it being explicitly identified as a hidden assumption.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
d) I believe certain areas of anthropological linguistics still accept Sapir-Whorf to some extent, especially where the researcher is in the anthropology department rather than the linguistics dept. My source of this is Reed Riner at U. of No. Arizona, but I think I heard something similar from John Atkins who was at U. of Washington.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve used the phrase &#039;linguistic relativity&#039; because when actually pinned down, many people will say that they aren&#039;t sure whether language determines world-view or vice versa, but that there is obviously a relation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I guess I don&#039;t find that particularly strange (a lot of my friends, however, consider ME extremely strange for being skeptical on this point);&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan (artificial language) project has the goal (among others) of testing the &#039;Sapir-Whorf hypothesis&#039;. Those of us working on the project, linguists or not, are assumed by many to &#039;believe in&#039; the SWH, though we are predominantly agnostic or skeptical like you. I think it is again an unquestioning assumption that the concept holds, with little analysis of the implications, that leads to this assumption.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I do find it somewhat odd that people who accept this view seem to think that it is (a) obviously correct, and (b) profound, a contradiction in terms. I welcome further data and insights.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, I think people assume the concept to be obviously correct in some &#039;weak&#039; form and also intuitively realize that it breaks down in some stronger form.&lt;br /&gt;
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The profundity is due to the never-ending political and philosophical implications of the assumed-true concept. That the hypothesis isn&#039;t even well stated means that none of the tests conducted in the 50s truly settled the issue. Supporters of the hypothesis seem to think that linguists abandoned the issue either because they could not prove it one way or the other, or because the idea became unfashionable or even non-P.C. with the rise of Chomsky&#039;s ideas.&lt;br /&gt;
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If unambiguously true, the hypothesis itself is uninteresting. Until the bounds of its truth are explored, the philosophical implications will continue to be profound.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think there is some considerable correlation in attitude on linguistic relativity and language prescriptivism. In the latter area as well, linguists tend to have a considerable disagreement with the educated-populace-at-large, who consider it a truism that there is a right way to speak and use a language and other usages are wrong. This assumption is also considered &#039;obvious&#039;, and when its fallacies and philosophical implications are pointed out, also considered profound. &lt;br /&gt;
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A lively debate ensued, partly in response to these comments.&lt;br /&gt;
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Niko Besnier, Department of Anthropology, Yale University &amp;lt;UTTANU@YALEVM.BITNET&amp;gt; replied:&lt;br /&gt;
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The reason why linguistic anthropologists &amp;quot;still&amp;quot; believe in some version of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) is not that they know less about language than mainstream linguists (many fields have much to say about language, and it is a delusion to think that any one field has a monopoly on the subject), but that they focus on language in a different way from linguists. The prototypical anthropological paradigm focuses on diversity, on the particular, and builds theory on the particular, looking at, for example, relational patterns between the particular in language and the particular in society and culture. This contrasts with the avowed universalism extant in most linguistic paradigms. Having been &amp;quot;brought up&amp;quot; in the latter paradigm, to then move to some version of the former, I am at a loss to decide that one is &amp;quot;better,&amp;quot; more intellectually worthwhile, etc., than the other. I doubt that mud-slinging (&amp;quot;butterfly collector!&amp;quot; &amp;quot;universalist-schmuniversalist!&amp;quot;) will get either field very far.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is room for the SWH in a particularistic approach to language. But what it has to be grounded on is a careful reading of poor Whorf, who must be on the most misread (unread?) thinkers of the century. Interpretations of Whorf extant amongst mainstream linguists have little to do with what Whorf actually wrote, and this had led linguists to call the man by all sorts of names (e.g. &amp;quot;weekend linguist&amp;quot; - Geoffrey Pullum in NLLT). It is telling, for example, that in my linguistic training at two institutions I was never required to read a single original text by Whorf. To a certain extent this is understandable, since Whorf wrote in an opaque, dense style.&lt;br /&gt;
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John Lucy (&amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s view of the linguistic mediation of thought,&amp;quot; in Semiotic Mediation, ed. by Elizabeth Mertz &amp;amp; Richard Parmentier, Academic P, 1985) shows that one of the important aspects of the SWH missing from laypersons&#039; accounts (i.e. accounts by those who have not read Whorf) is that Whorf is not talking about determinism by all of language of all aspects of world view. Rather, fashions of speaking determine habitual thought. Fashions of speaking are broad patternings of grammatical categories and discourse strategies in a language, across what Whorf calls overt and covert categories. Areas of language where one should seek &amp;quot;weak&amp;quot; determinism (the strong version of determinism was never advocated by Whorf, but by subsequent linguists who never seem to have read Whorf) are in fact very different from areas that Whorf is usually said to have claimed to be deterministic. I&#039;d point to work like that of Elinor Ochs as example of where determinism is to be found between language and habitual thought: the shape of, even the presence/absence of baby talk in a speech community, provides a pretty strong deterministic &amp;quot;lesson&amp;quot; to language acquirers about the relationship between structure (= institutions) and agency (= person) extant in the society, i.e. about the type of things that social theorists worry about.&lt;br /&gt;
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This posting is already too long, but I&#039;d like to point to Alan Rumsey&#039;s (1990) paper, &amp;quot;Wording, Meaning, and Linguistic Ideology,&amp;quot; American Anthropologist 92:346-361, for an excellent discussion of where Whorfianism works.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Summary of Linguistic Attitudes on Sapir-Whorf ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bruce Nevin gave a very detailed and informative discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. He has given us permission to publish the entire text which is part of a longer work-in-progress. The I, II, and III perspectives listed in the text are not his but as cited. Following is Bruce&#039;s relevant background.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Bruce Nevin received his AB and AM degrees in linguistics from the University of Pennsylvania in 1969 and 1970. From 1970 through 1974 he did extensive fieldwork on Achumawi, a Hokan language spoken in the northeastern corner of California. He resumed PhD matriculation at the University of Pennsylvania in 1987, intending to use the Achumawi material in the dissertation. He has been employed as a writer by Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN) in Cambridge, Massachusetts since 1982.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following is Copyright 1991 by Bruce Nevin, &amp;lt;bn@bbn.com&amp;gt;.]&lt;br /&gt;
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I want to outline the views of Sapir and of Whorf on linguistic and cultural relativism as I understand them and survey some of what has been done with these ideas, both as deriving explicitly from their writings and as arising from less clearly articulated cultural and intellectual antecedents that it is difficult for any of us not in some measure to share as we grapple with universals and idiosyncrasies of language and culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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These ideas arose for Sapir in the context of his work on language typology on the one hand and psychology on the other. In the background lay social Darwinism, or at least the pervasive evolutionist perspective of 19th-century anthropology, and in this respect Sapir&#039;s interest here was a continuation of Boas&#039; restitution of &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot; languages as on an equal footing with the languages of familiar literate cultures, and an all-important entree into &amp;quot;the network of cultural patterns of a civilization,&amp;quot; which &amp;quot;In a sense ... is indexed in the language which expresses that civilization.&amp;quot; (1929:162)&lt;br /&gt;
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In his conception of the relation of language, personality, culture, and &amp;quot;the world,&amp;quot; Sapir distinguished between social reality:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Language is a guide to `social reality.&#039; ... it powerfully conditions all our thinking about social problems and processes ... the world of social activity as ordinarily understood&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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and objective reality, as had Durckheim and others, and affirmed of the former that:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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It was in this sense that he made his famous assertion &amp;quot;The fact of the matter is that the &#039;real world&#039; is to a large extent unconsciously built up on the language habits of the group.&amp;quot; (Preceding quotations all loc. cit.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The core of the matter for Sapir, however, was an identification of language, specifically grammatical categories, with thought:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I quite frankly commit myself to the idea that thought is impossible without language, that thought is language.&amp;quot; (In a letter of 8 April 1921 keeping Lowie abreast of progress on the manuscript of Language; quoted in Darnell 1990:99.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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In other places, Sapir severely divorces language from culture, but in this he appears to mean material culture, the &amp;quot;inventory&amp;quot; of cultural artefacts. The correlation of these things with associated vocabulary he regarded as trivial.&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Whorf may have been a Theosophist. His philosophical interests attracted him to Sapir and to linguistics, and his fascination with the &amp;quot;hidden metaphysics&amp;quot; of languages remained always the central thing for him, for which the tools of linguistics were subordinate means. From the point of view of an emerging profession, then, he was quite literally eccentric, in that specific sense. His ideas began to crystallize with preparation to teach a course at Yale during Sapir&#039;s leave in 1937-38. His intention was to &amp;quot;excite [students&#039;] interest in the linguistic approach as a way of developing understanding of the ideology of other peoples&amp;quot; (letter to Spier). He would focus on &amp;quot;a psychological direction, and the problems of:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;meaning, thought and idea in so-called primitive cultures,&amp;quot; aiming to &amp;quot;reveal psychic factors or constants&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;organization of raw experience into a consistent and readily communicable universe of ideas through the medium of linguistic patterns&amp;quot; (to Carroll; both quoted in Darnell 1990:381).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Whorf developed his ideas about linguistic relativity during Sapir&#039;s illness and elaborated it after his death, so Sapir never had a chance to comment. Whorf died in 1941 at the age of forty-four, leaving less sympathetic colleagues to pursue the implications of his work. (Darnell 1990:375)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sapir had confined the constitutive role of language to social reality. Whorf went farther, and developed the claim that:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;It is the grammatical background of our mother tongue, which includes not only our way of constructing propositions but the way we dissect nature and break up the flux of experience into objects and entities to construct propositions about.&amp;quot; (1956:239)&lt;br /&gt;
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The identification of language and thought takes an adversative twist:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;[T]hinking ... follows a network of tracks laid down in the given language, an organization which may concentrate systematically upon certain phases of reality, certain aspects of intelligence, and may systematically discard others featured by other languages. The individual is utterly unaware of this organization and is constrained complete within its unbreakable bonds.&amp;quot; (256)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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: Since:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;if a rule has absolutely no exceptions, it is not recognized as a rule or as anything else; it is then part of the background of experience of which we tend to remain unconscious.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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In the background always is Theosophy, as in The Voice of the Silence:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The mind is the great slayer of the real.&amp;quot; (Quoted on p. 253)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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His views were recast in terms more acceptable to prevalent conceptions of operational test and verification, as by Eric Lenneberg in 1953, summarized by Roger Brown (Reference: In Memorial Tribute to Eric Lenneberg, Cognition 4:125-153):&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I. Structural differences between language systems will, in general, be paralleled by nonlinguistic cognitive differences, of an unspecified sort, in the native speakers of the two languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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II. The structure of anyone&#039;s native language strongly influences or fully determines the world-view he will acquire as he learns the language. (p. 128)&lt;br /&gt;
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Behind this was the assumption (presumably &amp;quot;part of the unconscious background&amp;quot; of every student in the Boas-Sapir tradition, and indeed of virtually everyone as has been argued on the LINGUIST list) that:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
III. Languages, and hence cognitive systems, can vary without constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
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Proposition II has generally been presumed to be untestable because of the identification of language and any means of communicating one&#039;s world-view. Attempts to verify or falsify the hypothesis have concerned themselves either with I or III (with indirect evidence for II sought from III). It would be interesting to see a resumption of attention to II; e.g. employing techniques developed for study of non-human communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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A conference organized by Robert Redfield in 1953 drew together a relatively small number of linguists and anthropologists with the aim of defining problems related to the hypothesis, reviewing work undertaken and plans for future work relating to it, and attempting to establish a minimal framework of institutional support for these research interests. Their proposals concerned mostly methods for getting at I. Their conclusions were cautious, as noted above, in keeping with the temper of the times.&lt;br /&gt;
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Kay and Kempton (AA 86:66), perhaps somewhat parochially but truthfully as regards empirical research, claim that most of this research has been in the domain of color. They give citations of work bearing on III beginning about the time of the Redfield conference (Ray 1952, Conklin 1955, Lenneberg and Roberts 1956, Gleason 1961, Bohannan 1963), and probably the best known study, their own (Berlin and Kay 1969). They remark that &amp;quot;studies before 1969 tended to support III; those since 1969 have tended to discredit III&amp;quot; (loc. cit.) They accept the finding of Kay and McDaniel (1978) explaining universal constraints in color classification in terms of the neurophysiology of human color vision, and discrediting III with respect to color. They affirm of course that research into II and III is an open matter for domains other than color perception, in particular domains (they mention religion) where characteristics of peripheral neural mechanisms like those of color perception have no bearing.&lt;br /&gt;
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A parallel tradition of research into aspect I of the hypothesis has been carried out primarily by psychologists, and Kay and Kempton (1984) is a continuation of this. They cite Brown and Lennebert 1954, Burnham and Clark 1955, Lenneberg 1961, Lantz and Stefflre 1964, and Stefflre, Castillo, and Morely 1966. This line of research seeks a correlation between a linguistic variable (codability and communication accuracy) and a nonlinguistic cognitive variable (memorability) within a single language, and is thus a weak form of I.&lt;br /&gt;
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After initial claims of success in finding a positive correlation between the memorability of a color and its value on a linguistic variable, Rosch showed that both memorability and the combined variable of codability and accuracy of communication is determined universally by focality or perceptual salience. The assumption that the linguistic variables of codability and communication accuracy differ across languages (III again) was falsified by this research, and therefore any correlation between memorability and a linguistic variable was not relevant to the hypothesis. Lucy and Shweder determined that the problem of focality or salience was an artefact of how the color chips were presented, and devised an array by repeatedly re-randomizing chips from the initial array so that there is no relation between focality and findability. By this means they have reinstated the earlier correlation in favor of I with respect to color categories. There remain problems of interpretation and relevance to the broader aims of the enterprise, as unfortunately often happens in narrowly empirical work.&lt;br /&gt;
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Research of a broader sort has gone on in many fields. In social and cultural anthropology it is difficult to find anything that is absolutely irrelevant to the Whorf-Sapir hypothesis, though the latter can be made irrelevant to some forms of anthropological work essentially by legislating a rather narrowly realist, anti-constructivist perspective for science. Among clearly relevant issues I name questions of symbolism, including especially money and symbols of political and/or religious stature, magic and cargo cults, studies of kinship systems and their role in the construction of interpersonal and social relations, and work in social categories. To this must be added work of more obviously linguistic nature, such as projection of prehistoric cultures from reconstructed proto-languages, Studies of the bases of prejudice, of stereotyping, and of national character in a more genuine sense (as pioneered by Gregory Bateson) ... the list is seemingly endless.&lt;br /&gt;
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The fields of ethnolinguistics and sociolinguistics, themselves extremely broad and diversified (and themselves polarized rather as the right and left hemispheres of the brain of the archetypal anthropological linguist), have obvious bearing on the hypothesis. Hymes has urged a reinterpretation of the hypothesis, investigating patterns of language use rather than of language structure per se.&lt;br /&gt;
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The perhaps contentiously named field of cognitive linguistics has a strong constructivist bent. Work in psycholinguistics in general often has clear bearing, though the direction of interest (and funding) to linguistic universals has tended to obscure investigation of linguistic idiosyncrasies that might correlate with cognitive differences.&lt;br /&gt;
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From Bateson&#039;s work on communication and learning and in particular the discovery of the double bind in relation to these have developed lines of clinical research that have developed practical techniques of reframing and use of metaphor, and an understanding of human systems in cybernetic terms, as therapy (particularly the field of family therapy).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lastly, I must mention the resurgence of feminism in all its many forms, especially as a scholarly concern in anthropology.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will describe in a little more detail a new test of aspect I of the hypothesis devised by Kay and Kempton (1984) so as not to be so restricted in interpretive scope as the previous communicability/- codability studies had been. Speakers of Tarahumara (a Uto-Aztecan language of northern Mexico) lack the basic lexical distinction between green and blue (as do various other languages, including Achumawi). Aspect I of the hypothesis predicts that speakers of English will polarize their perceptions near the border of green and blue, but speakers of Tarahumara will not.&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; In the first experiment, English-speaker&#039;s judgements reflected the division of green against blue in 29 trials out of 30; Tarahumara speakers responded even-handedly with 13 out of 24, extremely close to a 50-50 split, vindicating the hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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These experiments involve discriminating among three chips. In the first experiment, the subject had an opportunity to assign a color name to the intermediate chip, and this may have prejudiced the later step of the experiment, when the alternate comparison was made. The second experiment made the comparisons with the three chips adjacent in a box with a sliding cover that covered the chip on one end. In the setup stage, the subject agrees that the middle chip is greener with respect to one chip, and then that it is bluer than the other. It thus has both names associated with it when the subject is invited to alternate views as often as desired, and judge which difference is greater. In this experiment the polarization effect disappears.&lt;br /&gt;
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This accords with an interpretation by categorization (experiment 1) versus an interpretation by discrimination (experiment 2). An exact parallel could be made with the fact that people can discriminate differences between sounds with indeterminate fineness (phonetics), but discriminate relevant differences that make a difference in small numbers of categories (phonemes, contrasts, distinctions) and displaying characteristic polarization effects at the boundaries. A culturally/linguistically determined contrast can be repeated, a difference requiring perceptual discrimination can only be imitated.&lt;br /&gt;
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Kay and Kempton interpret these findings as disconfirming what they call radical linguistic determinism, in which &amp;quot;human beings ... are very much at the mercy of the particular language&amp;quot; (Sapir, quoted previously). Because the polarization associated with naming can be made to disappear simply by not naming, we are not hopelessly at the mercy of our language. To this I would add that it is difficult to do many sorts of things cooperatively with other human beings or with social consequence and recognition without employing the categories inherent in language. The exceptions, it seems to me, are in the realms of art, of religion, of play and creativity. These are the domain of the pleroma in Bateson&#039;s terms, the realm of cybernetic explanation, as opposed to the creatura, the realm of forces and impacts dealt with in the conventional categories of one&#039;s shared language and culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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In formal linguistics, Zellig Harris and his co-workers have come full circle to the work on information structures in discourse that opened the whole field of transformational grammar. Harris, Ryckman, Gottfried et al. The Form of Information in Science (1990) develops a representation of the information immanent in a body of texts written over a span of years in the history of a subfield of a science (immunology). Changes in this structure correlate transparently with historically well-documented changes and developmental stages of the science during that period, although the structure was determined by clearly defined formal means and without reference to any knowledge of that historical context. In this way, they have demonstrated strongly that structures found in the sub-language of that science (and not imposed a priori on it) correlate on the one hand with aspects of the social reality of the science and on the other with the structure of the real-world domain which is the concern of that science.&lt;br /&gt;
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The latter correlation is reflexive, however, in the sense that, as the structure changed, it (and the understanding of the scientists writing the original research reports on which the analysis was done) over time came into closer conformity with a reality whose nature was in process of being discovered. Before that change and that concurrent discovery, certain characteristics of reality could not be stated or thought; afterward, they could. But the discovery and the change in structure were simultaneous (though of course the writing down for publication was not). No better confirmation of Sapir&#039;s intuition of the essential unity of language and thought could be offered by one of his students.&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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To illustrate this point further, I should like to adduce a recent contribution to the enormous literature in the study of kinship categories, always a favorite topic in anthropological linguistics. Wierzbicka, in Semantics and the interpretation of cultures: the meaning of &#039;alternate generations&#039; devices in Australian languages, proposes a new set of metalanguage terms for discussing the alternate sets of pronouns used in many Australian languages. She urges that the terminology of &amp;quot;generation harmony&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;disharmony&amp;quot; that has become traditional in anthropology is arcane and psychologically arbitrary, does not capture native speakers&#039; meaning and does not make that meaning accessible to people from other cultures, and claims that her new terminology provides a better fit. This work illustrates a Whorfian effect in the sub-language of a specialization within the science of anthropology. With the traditional terminology, aspects of aborigine culture are difficult to come to recognize and understand, and not possible to communicate; she claims that with the proposed new terminology it is.&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, while providing an illustration of Whorfian effects within a sub-field of a science, she proposes to overcome such effects by devising a perfect metalanguage for that sub-field. Since the sub-field concerns an area that is by nature a matter of social convention and so in social reality rather than physical reality (to make that Durckheimian distinction again), she may be able to get away with it. I do not doubt the creativity of human cultures, however, and would build in means for the sub-language to evolve.&lt;br /&gt;
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An abiding interest of Harris, as of his teacher Sapir, has been the question of refinements and possibly extensions of natural language that foster international scientific communication. In his analysis, language-particular characteristics due to the reduction system (extended morpho-phonemics) of one language or another are partitioned from operator-argument structures that `carry&#039; information, which are remarkably uniform from one language to another. This uniformity becomes very close indeed in the grammar of a science sub-language, where classifications and selection restrictions are much more closely constrained than in other domains. But even in nontechnical domains Harris has a great deal to say about linguistic universals,&amp;lt;ref name=xa /&amp;gt; and about the distinctions between what is universal in language and culture and what is idiosyncratic and therefore pertinent to the Whorf-Sapir Hypothesis. &lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Footnotes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Hoijer, in the 1953 conference proceedings, adduces passages of a similar sort in the writings of Boas.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Darnell (1990:434 n) says: Sapir&#039;s strongest relativity statement was a brief note titled &amp;quot;Conceptual Categories of Primitive Languages,&amp;quot; an abstract of a paper read to the National Academy of Sciences in 1931. This was published only after his death. Her bibliography lists it as appearing in Science 74:578. I have not seen it and cannot comment.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;This phenomenon of polarization, by the way, is the reason speakers of English can disagree so strongly about the assignment of marginal colors to either green or blue. A slight difference in idiosyncratic placement of the boundary makes a large difference in categorization. This would provide the basis of an interesting study relating to I.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt;The confirmation is equivocal, however, since the work clearly demonstrates (as Harris stated at the end of Mathematical Structures of Language (Wiley, 1968)) that language is not identical with thought but instead provides a rather rigid channel for thought. This corresponds precisely to the observation above that the discovery and the language for talking about it co-evolved. By using this term I refer specifically to the common misperception regarding biological evolution that e.g. eohippus evolved into the horse in response to environmental changes, when one must instead acknowledge eohippus and its pre-grasslands environment co-evolved into the horse and its grasslands environment. Synec-doche is fallacious in both cases. The claim, then, is of the unity, but not identity of language and thought. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt;This is part of Wierzbicka&#039;s ongoing work on natural language semantics based, ultimately, on a proposed set of universal semantic primitives, including: I, you, this, someone, something, want, don&#039;t want, say, think of, imagine, know, become, part, place, and world (Wierzbicka, Semantic Primitives (1972), Lingua Mentalis (1980). Be it noted that Harris denies there can be a lingua mentalis or any metalanguage external to natural language. For one thing, were there such one would need to account for the grammar and semantics of that metalanguage, and off we go in an infinite regress of grammatical and semantic metalanguages. For another, Harris has demonstrated that the information structures immanent in texts account precisely for the information that the texts report, so that, like LaPlace, he has no need for this additional hypothesis. But Wierzbicka&#039;s proposal here, however it may be guided by her broader theoretical interests, concerns only a sub-language of English serving as metalanguage for a sub-field of anthropology, and as such is unobjectionable. The semantics of this sub-language inhere in its informational structures, per Harris, rather than in its use of vocabulary from a supposedly universal lingua mentalis.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xa&amp;gt;See e.g. Language and Information (Columbia 1989) and A Theory of Language and Information (Oxford, 1990), which is a more philosophical companion volume to A Grammar of English on Mathematical Principles (Wiley 1982).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[One of the researchers on color terms mentioned above then posted some additional notes on his research:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Willett Kempton &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;willett@Princeton.EDU&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;m a coauthor of the Kay and Kempton study discussed in several earlier messages. (I don&#039;t follow this newsgroup regularly, but a colleague passed on the thread.) As pointed out earlier, from the tangled cluster of hypotheses referred to as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, we tested only one question: Do the lexical categories of a language affect non-linguistic perceptions of its speakers to a non-trivial extent? (P. Kay &amp;amp; W. Kempton, &amp;quot;What is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot;, American Anthropologist, vol 86, No. 1, March 1984.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Considering the complexities of prior research efforts, our primary experiment was simple: Present three color chips (call them A, B, C) to speakers of two languages, such that colors A and B are slightly more different in terms of (universal) human visual discriminability, whereas B and C have a linguistic boundary separating them in one language (English) but not the other (Tarahumara, a Uto-Aztecan language). As noted earlier, the English speakers chose C as most different, whereas the Tarahumara chose A or split evenly (there were actually eight chips and four sets of relevant triads).&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll add a couple of points of interest that were either buried in that article, or have not appeared in print. First, as the speaker of a language subject to this perceptual effect, I would like to report that it is dramatic, even shocking. I administered the tests to informants in Chihuahua. I was so bewildered by their responses that I had trouble continuing the first few tests, and I had no idea whether or not they were answering randomly. In subsequent analysis it was clear that they were answering exactly as would be predicted by human visual discriminability, but quite unlike the English informants.&lt;br /&gt;
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An informal, and unreported, check of our results was more subjective: I showed some of the crucial triads to other English speakers, including some who had major commitments in print to not finding Whorfian effects for color (several of the latter type of informants were available on the Berkeley campus, where Kay and I were). All reported seeing the same effects. We tried various games with each other and ourselves like &amp;quot;We know English calls these two green and that one blue, but just looking it them, which one LOOKS most different?&amp;quot; No way, the blue one was REALLY a LOT more different. Again, the Tarahumara, lacking a lexical boundary among these colors, picked &amp;quot;correctly&amp;quot; with ease and in overwhelming numbers. The article includes the Munsell chip numbers, so anyone can look them up and try this on themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some of the triads which crossed hue and brightness were truly unbelievable, as it was perceptually OBVIOUS to us English speakers which one was the most different, yet all the visual discriminability data were against us. (The article did not mention the hue/brightness crossovers for the sake of simplifying the argument in print.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Our second experiment, like the original visual discrimination experiments, showed only two chips at a time. We additionally made it difficult to use the lexical categories. And we got visual discrimination-based results, even from English speakers. So there are ways to overcome our linguistic blinders. (Which we knew already, or the original visual discriminability work could not have been done in the first place.) I don&#039;t feel that the differences across these tasks was adequately explored, and represent a golden opportunity for a research project or thesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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I didn&#039;t expect to find this. The experiment was a minor piggy-back on another project. I believed the literature and the distinguished scientists who told me in advance that we wouldn&#039;t find anything interesting. The experiment was going to be dropped from the field research, saved by a conversation at a wine party with a &amp;quot;naive&amp;quot; sociologist (Paul Attewell) who had read Whorf but not the later refutations.&lt;br /&gt;
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A simple experiment, clear data, and seeing the Whorfian effect with our own eyes: It was a powerful conversion experience unlike anything I&#039;ve experienced in my scientific career. Perhaps this all just goes to affirm Seguin&#039;s earlier quote, as applying to us as both natives and as theorists:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;We have met the natives whose language filters the world - and they are us.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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[One linguist on Linguist List added comments to those of Bruce Nevin, specifically noting that Sapir and Whorf did not necessarily believe in the &#039;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&#039;. As noted in JL16, Alexis Manaster-Ramer has become interested in potential linguistics research applications for Lojban. This interest derived in part as a result of these discussions.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Alexis Manaster-Ramer writes &amp;lt;Alexis_Manaster_Ramer@MTS.CC.WAYN E.EDU&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
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In several recent messages there are references to Whorf or Sapir and Whorf together as having originated the idea of &amp;quot;human thinking patterns being relative to the inventory of the available language system&amp;quot; (to quote one contributor). However, like the story of the Eskimo words for snow, this story about Whorf and Sapir is not factually correct.&lt;br /&gt;
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First of all, it was Sapir who fought against such simplistic language-thought claims of earlier scholars such as Uhlenbeck (one of the guys who claimed that certain &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot; folks don&#039;t have the same perception of action as we do because they speak ergative languages and that some of them also have trouble distinguishing between themselves and their body parts because they speak languages in which possessors of subjects or objects are sometimes treated as subjects and objects).&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, it is true that Whorf took for granted (as did almost everybody else at the time) the idea that the structure of a language can be taken literally as giving the underlying ontology (not that it causes it, mind you, but that it does reveal it). We know for example that Whorf was much impressed with the claims (I forget whose at the moment) that Chinese has no relative clauses, only things that were rendered as Jack build-ish house (i.e., the house that Jack built).&lt;br /&gt;
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Third, all of Whorf&#039;s claims about Hopi are quite explicitly of this same variety: He does not assert that the structure of the language causes the world view, merely that it reveals it. He also does not claim this connection between the ontology and the language to be a new idea. He presupposes it. That is a big difference, of course, because Whorf is often accused of claiming such a connection without giving any independent evidence about the ontology. But in fact he did not make any such claims, he merely assumed that there was such a connection because everybody around him assumed it also. His contribution (as he saw it) was entirely different: it was to show that the way people view time, events, quantities, etc., can be culture- and hence language-specific.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I find particularly surprising about the need to reiterate all this is that the relevant writings of Whorf&#039;s are all reprinted in a widely available collection, and that Sapir&#039;s writings are hardly obscure either.&lt;br /&gt;
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At another point, Alexis also wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
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I am very grateful to those who have written in to note that the so-called Sapir-Whorf hypothesis was NOT what Whorf (or a fortiori Sapir) maintained. And also to those who have written in reminding us of the results, such the Berlin and Kay ones, that seem in fact to support the Un-Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. However, it should be noted that these results do NOT show a causal relation going from language to cognition. Indeed, the often-noted fact that color terminologies seem to become more and more complex as the speakers&#039; material culture becomes more and more complex would argue for precisely the opposite causality: People find they need to distinguish more colors because of material, nonlinguistic reasons, and then devise the necessary linguistic means to formalize the distinctions.&lt;br /&gt;
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I would also like to address briefly the question of a connection with Humboldt. As I noted in my first message on the subject of Whorf, Whorf (like most of his contemporaries) PRESUPPOSED the existence of a connection between language and cognition, a connection which Humboldt was one of the first (if not the first) to make. The issue is very simple, really. Before Humboldt and others like him, the standard way of describing languages was in terms of how they would be glossed in some Western metalanguage like Latin or Spanish. This is why people were perfectly happy to describe ergative constructions (in e.g. Greenlandic) or &amp;quot;active&amp;quot; ones (e.g., in Huron and Guarani, see Mithun&#039;s recent Language article) without noticing anything odd. They would just say that the subject and the verb had different forms in transitive as opposed to intransitive constructions. People like Humboldt came up with the revolutionary idea of describing languages in their own terms, which meant that the superficial patterns of each language had to be taken at face value.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hence, Humboldt&#039;s argument that Malayo-Polynesian verbs are really nouns, for example. Or later arguments by various people that ergatives are really passives (or other things). But that then made it imperative to explain why exotic peoples say things that we would not, e.g., why do they use &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot; instead of verbs or &amp;quot;passives&amp;quot; instead of actives. And the explanation, of course, was that they THINK differently from us as well. Whorf, like almost all his contemporaries, was steeped in this way of thinking, but certainly did not originate it. As I noted before, his point to show just HOW EXOTIC languages could get, and this he tried to do by discussing the Hopi treatment of time, events, and quantities.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alexis provided evidence for his claims in the following:&lt;br /&gt;
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Since many of the readers of LINGUIST are from Missouri, I thought I would provide some evidence for my recent assertions that Whorf&#039;s position has been widely misunderstood.&lt;br /&gt;
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In &amp;quot;The relation of habitual thought and behavior to language&amp;quot;, Whorf says among other things:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;That portion of the whole investigation here to be reported may be summed up in two questions: (1) Are our concepts of &#039;time&#039;, &#039;space&#039;, and &#039;matter&#039; given in substantially the same form by experience to all men, or are they in part conditioned by the structure of particular languages? (2) Are there traceable affinities between (a) cultural and behavioral norms and (b) large-scale linguistic patterns? (I should be the last to pretend that there is anything so definite as &amp;quot;a correlation&amp;quot; between culture and language, and especially between ethnological rubrics such as &#039;agricultural, hunting&#039;, etc., and linguistic ones like &#039;inflected&#039;, &#039;synthetic&#039;, or &#039;isolating&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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In a footnote on the same page (p. 139 of the Language, Thought, and Reality book), he says emphatically that &amp;quot;The idea of &amp;quot;correlation&amp;quot; between language and culture, in the generally accepted sense of correlation, is certainly a mistaken one&amp;quot; and he cites some arguments.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, I believe that Whorf made a clear distinction between culture (behavior) and language, but he did not make such a distinction between language and thought. As I said before, he presupposed as did almost everyone else at the time that if people speak a certain way then that reflects the way they think. He took it for granted for example that if the Hopis pluralize the word for cloud (oomaw) the way that they normally pluralize animate nouns, then they must think of the clouds as animate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, this view is naive, as Joseph Greenberg pointed out in the fifties, since languages make all sorts of arbitrary distinctions (or fail arbitrarily to make them in certain environments) without any apparent conceptual consequences.&lt;br /&gt;
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Essentially, I think the connection works one way, namely, if a language makes a distinction which cannot be described in purely structural terms, then we must ascribe to the speakers the ability to perceive or imagine or whatever the corresponding distinction in the world. Thus, when Greenberg points out that nothing important hinges on the fact that the French use an ordinal in Napoleon Premier but a cardinal in Napolean Deux, that&#039;s OK, because the choice here can be made w/o reference to the world. The rule is purely linguistic. And, of course, this could be the case with the Hopi word for cloud and its plural.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, if we find that speakers of Polish systematically use a different genitive ending for place-names in Poland (and other Slavic countries) than they do for other place-names, and do so PRODUCTIVELY, then it IS reasonable to conclude that they are capable of a conceptual distinction between Poland (or Slavdom) and the rest of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
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The distinction between these two kinds of cases is what seems not to have been entirely clear to Whorf, and that, as far as I can see, is where he came to sometimes came to grief.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is also quite clear that he was not claiming any originality about the relation of language and thought per se, rather he was trying to show just how different the language/thought of one culture could be from that of another in the case of such basic ideas as that of time, although he points out (p 158) that there is not a comparable difference between Hopi and Standard Average European regarding space.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to culture, Whorf was faithfully following Sapir in claiming that there is no more than an &amp;quot;affinity&amp;quot; between language and culture, but no &amp;quot;correlations or diagnostic correspondences&amp;quot; (p 159). For, as I noted earlier, Sapir was one of the staunchest critics of the late 19th century and early 20th century linguists who propounded such theories as the &amp;quot;passivity&amp;quot; of peoples whose languages use the ergative constructions, and such like drivel.&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, much of what I have said about Whorf&#039;s intent in bringing the Hopi vs. the SAE treatment of time and matter can also be said about Sapir&#039;s work on the psychological reality of phonemes. Today, we emphasize the psychological reality part, but actually in his time, the novelty was the phoneme. Claims about psychological reality about in the second half of the 19th century and later (and we find them in all of Sapir&#039;s as well as Bloomfield&#039;s early writings). The idea of the psychological vs. the grammatical subject after all originated in that period. And, to take one example our of thousands, when Platt wrote in the 1870&#039;s that the Urdu speakers perceive certain constructions in their language as active even though they look passive (these are, of course, ergatives again!), he was expressing himself in a way which was quite typical for the time (though not for the 17 or the 18th century). &lt;br /&gt;
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Finally Alexis wrote, in a fourth posting:&lt;br /&gt;
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Setting aside for the moment the question of why so many people continue to insist on attributing to Whorf and Sapir views they did not hold (or at least did not express), I would like to say something about the results which are claimed to support the hypothesis that language and non-linguistic behavior (behavior, for short) exhibit certain close connections (which people seem to want to interpret as involving causality going from language to behavior).&lt;br /&gt;
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(1) Even if we find certain correlations between language structure and patterns of behavior, this does NOT (as I think I noted earlier) indicate the direction of causality (as indeed Whorf himself noted at one point). The color terminology business shows, if anything, that the complexity of a color terminology seems to depend on the complexity of the culture, there being, for example, no industrial or post-industrial cultures whose languages use two or three color terms. There has also been speculation about the fact that the lateness of terms for &#039;blue&#039; may be connected with the relative scarcity of blue objects (other than the ubiquitous sky) in nature.&lt;br /&gt;
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This would suggest very strongly that the linguistic pattern comes second, as a reflection of a culture&#039;s need to make certain distinctions.&lt;br /&gt;
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(2) All the studies that claim to show a connection between language and behavior that I have seen mentioned seem to deal with two or at any rate a small number of languages, e.g., Tarahumara and English. Likewise, I have seen studies by Alexander Guiora on Hebrew and English and other such small sets, which I don&#039;t think have been cited on LINGUIST so far. Yet, since the claim being tested is correlation between linguistic structure and nonlinguistic behavior, the relevant population is languages (not individual speakers), and you cannot seriously talk about correlations for populations of two (or three or whatever small number is involved). What we require is a study involving a dozen or a hundred languages that have the Tarahumara color system and a dozen or a hundred that have the English one before we can say anything at all about correlations and things.&lt;br /&gt;
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Having said this, I would predict that we will find such correlations but I would also predict that at least some of them will turn out to have the opposite causality from that suggested (or a more complex one than either of the simple unidirectional ones).&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there anybody out there who would like to collaborate on putting together such a mass cross-linguistic study?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab responded privately to Alexis&#039;s last message with the following:&lt;br /&gt;
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You write:&lt;br /&gt;
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Setting aside for the moment the question of why so many people continue to insist on attributing to Whorf and Sapir views they did not hold (or at least did not express) ...&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that when we talk about the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis in Lojban writings, we are using the common name for the hypothesis, not in particular attributing the formulation of that hypothesis that we use to either Sapir or Whorf. That formulation is of course more complex than simple &#039;cultural relativism&#039;, and there seems to be no other good name, much less one that is known to people.&lt;br /&gt;
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From this end of your postings, I&#039;d say that you&#039;ve made your case that the two did not believe in &#039;their&#039; hypothesis, at least insofar as it is generally understood by others.&lt;br /&gt;
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(which people seem to want to interpret as involving causality going from language to behavior).&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree that this is not evidenced in the writings. I note by the way that Jim Brown, who invented Loglan, also cites F. S. C. Northrop (1946) The Meeting of East and West as proposing a cultural effect of language independently of the presumed interpretation of S and W, but he never cites quotes. I also have read a book in the 80s, The Alphabet Effect, by a follower of McLuhan, that claims cultural effects from orthography. Certainly the concept &amp;quot;the medium is the message&amp;quot; significantly underlies most interpretations of the SWH. Perhaps it should be call the SWMcH %^).&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not know where John Carroll fits in the historical setting of the SWH, whether he knew Whorf or Sapir, etc. Carroll WAS involved in Jim Brown&#039;s formulation of Loglan throughout the 60s and 70s, and presumably found Brown&#039;s assertions to not be inconsistent with his own writings on SWH. So I would ask you whether you believe that Carroll has said anything (presumably in his comments on the collection of Whorf&#039;s essays or elsewhere) that misinterprets those writings? Although he is retired, I could ask Carroll to respond. It seems that the issue is ripe for such discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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(1) Even if we find certain correlations between language structure and patterns of behavior, this does NOT (as I think I noted earlier) indicate the direction of causality (as indeed Whorf himself noted at one point).&lt;br /&gt;
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Agreed. One reason we are working very hard on Lojban before proposing a specific test is that we want to be able to predict a causal effect of language that is clearly not part of the cultural milieu. The drastic differences between Lojban and natural languages make it more likely that we can identify a way to determine both a relation and a causal effect, if one exists. This may then tell us how to look for confirming data in the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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The color terminology business shows, if anything, that the complexity of a color terminology seems to depend on the complexity of the culture, there being, for example, no industrial or post-industrial cultures whose languages use two or three color terms. There has also been speculation about the fact that the lateness of terms for &#039;blue&#039; may be connected with the relative scarcity of blue objects (other than the ubiquitous sky) in nature.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that color terminology is the worst place to look for a SW effect, since it seems patently obvious that color recognition is going to be dominated by the basic biological process of recognizing color which would mask more subtle linguistic effects. Indeed, if one presumes that biology was directed by evolutionary requirements, there may be some environmental reason that we are not aware of that causes certain colors to seem more basic or important than others.&lt;br /&gt;
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This would suggest very strongly that the linguistic pattern comes second, as a reflection of a culture&#039;s need to make certain distinctions.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree that this also occurs in language, and in constructing new artificial languages, especially a language like Lojban where nonce new word creation is easy and favored, the scope of this direction of response should be easy to measure.&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there anybody out there who would like to collaborate on putting together such a mass cross-linguistic study?&lt;br /&gt;
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I obviously would be interested (especially if funding can be obtained) but note that I can&#039;t contribute much in understanding of the other languages. I also would like to see such a study, even if it must include colors due to the popular associations of colors with SWH, find one or two other areas of language that are more believably independent of biology. I&#039;ve heard that kinship terms is another area of comparison that might be considered. My own preference would be an analysis of words for emotions, emotional expressions, and linguistic and para-linguistic ways of expressing emotions, as well as perhaps on time and spatial relations (e.g. do languages with 2 distinctions of distance in demonstratives this/- that have any correlations in culture not found in those having three this/that/that yonder?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Essentially, I think the connection works one way, namely, if a language makes a distinction which cannot be described in purely structural terms, then we must ascribe to the speakers the ability to perceive or imagine or whatever the corresponding distinction in the world. Thus, when Greenberg points out that nothing important hinges on the fact that the French use an ordinal in Napoleon Premier but a cardinal in Napolean Deux, that&#039;s OK, because the choice here can be made w/o reference to the world. The rule is purely linguistic. And, of course, this could be the case with the Hopi word for cloud and its plural. On the other hand, if we find that speakers of Polish systematically use a different genitive ending for place-names in Poland (and other Slavic countries) than they do for other place-names, and do so productively, then it is reasonable to conclude that they are capable of a conceptual distinction between Poland (or Slavdom) and the rest of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
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This sounds like you would see value in finding out what types of productive distinctions are made in an artificial language where structure and concept are strongly separated and it is relatively easy to recognize native language reflections (pollutions?) because of the drastic structural differences. The obvious question is where you would look for such distinctions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is only one language, but perhaps we might detect correlations between native language features and conceptualization in Lojban when those people learn Lojban. Do people with AN structures lose that pattern in a language where the AN distinction is blurred (I find myself in Lojban often expressing things in the form of house-big, as well as big-house, but would not presume to try to find any correlations yet?) My wife and I have devised several possible experiments related to this concept, but have long figured that it will be a while before there&#039;s an opportunity to even do a detailed plan, much less conduct the experiments.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alexis responded:&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank you for your extensive and thoughtful responses. ... I would love to be in touch with Carroll. He certainly knew Whorf, but is not a linguist. How he interprets Whorf is not always clear from his intro to Whorf&#039;s selected writings (which is his only contribution (I mean the only contribution of his) I know on this subject). Let me reemphasize: Whorf and Sapir did NOT argue for a correlation between linguistic and nonlinguistic behavior (although they saw connections) and they simply did not see the question of a correlation between language and thought in the way that we do. This is NOT to say that, like in the case of language and non-linguistic behavior, they held there was no correlation. Rather, they did not see clearly that there was anything to correlate, since they assumed that language and thought go hand-in-hand. And this they almost certainly did because the same idea was generally accepted at the time. So, I would not say that Sapir and Whorf did not believe in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Rather they did not consider it a hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Note: We will endeavor to pass along to the respective authors any comments on the above discussions that readers may send us.]&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Bibliography ===&lt;br /&gt;
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During the course of the discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Discussion, several references were mentioned, which can be added to bibliographies on Sapir-Whorf, such as those which have appeared in previous issues of ju&#039;i lobypli. I&#039;ve collected these together, sometimes including the comments of the person who mentioned the work:&lt;br /&gt;
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John Lucy (&amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s view of the linguistic mediation of thought,&amp;quot; in Semiotic Mediation, ed. by Elizabeth Mertz &amp;amp; Richard Parmentier, Academic P, 1985).&lt;br /&gt;
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Alan Rumsey&#039;s (1990) paper, &amp;quot;Wording, Meaning, and Linguistic Ideology,&amp;quot; American Anthropologist 92:346-361, for an excellent discussion of where Whorfianism works.&lt;br /&gt;
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There&#039;s a nice discussion by Roger Brown of the Brown &amp;amp; Lenneberg work in his old book Words &amp;amp; Things, in 2 different chapters separated by another chapter. There is one article I know of that provides some evidence for the strong version of the hypothesis, by Carroll &amp;amp; Casagrande on object classification by Navaho vs. Boston suburban kids. It&#039;s in an early psycholinguistics anthology (Saporta&#039;s??)&lt;br /&gt;
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Berlin &amp;amp; Kay&#039;s (1969) study of color-term universals was indeed a real breakthrough, although I also believe again that it attacked what Whorf did not maintain, but rather what was imputed to Whorf. However, there has been work since then which has examined Berlin &amp;amp; Kay (1969) closely, and has come up with some pretty damning evaluations. One of the main problems with the study is the inaccurate data that it used (but then again Whorf has been shown to have misunderstood the structure of Hopi), and the criteria used in determining when a color term is basic and when it&#039;s not, and when a color is focal or not. Chapter 4 of Geoffrey Sampson&#039;s (1980) School of Linguistics, (Stanford University Press) is one reference that comes to mind.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are also pretty careful experimental studies on the recognition of and memory for color terms which have come out in favor of both Whorfian relativism and determinism. See:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy, John and Richard Shweder. 1979. Whorf and his critics: Linguistic and nonlinguistic influences on color memory. American Anthropologist 81:581-615.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lucy, John and Richard Shweder. 1988. The effect of incidental conversation on memory for focal colors. American Anthropologist 81:923-931.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first paper was critiqued by Linda Garro (reference below), and the second paper is an answer to Garro:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Garro, Linda. 1986. Language, memory, and focality: A reexamination. American Anthropologist 88:128-136.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another attempt at an empirical test is Alfred Bloom&#039;s book The Linguistic Shaping of Thought. He found that Chinese speakers had more difficulty comprehending a text full of counterfactual conditionals than English speakers, and attributed this to the lack of explicit coding of counterfactuals in Chinese. However, Terry Au and Lisa Garbern Liu in Cognition (1985?) replicated the experiment trying to avoid cultural bias, and found no significant difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A more recent reference on Whorf and color terms is a paper by Paul Kay and Willet Kempton called What is the Sapir Whorf hypothesis? in American Anthropologist vol. 86, 1984.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown, R. L. (1967). Wilhelm Von Humboldt&#039;s Conception of Linguistic Relativity. The Hague: Mouton.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rheingold, H. (1988). They Have A Word For It, Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saporta, S. (1960) (Editor) Psycholinguistics : A book or readings, Holt Rinehart.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newcombe, etc. ?? (1958??) (Editors) Readings in Social Psychology.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vygotsky, Language and Thought&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kuhn, T. (1960?), Structure of Scientific Revolutions (2nd Edit.).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aarsleff, H. (1982). From Locke to Saussure. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
G. Pullam&#039;s book, The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax, essays by Sir William Jones and by W. D. Whitney, Carter and Nash&#039;s Seeing Through Language, Coupland&#039;s Styles of Discourse, and Freeborn&#039;s Varieties of English, and works by philosophers such as Austin, Searle, Grice, and Stalnaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Helmut Gipper, whose office sported an oversized poster of Einstein formulated an explicit link between the principle of relativity in theoretical physics and a similar principle in linguistics (Helmut Gipper, Gibt es ein sprachliches Relativitaetsprinzip?: Untersuchungen zur Sapir-Whorf-Hypothese, Fischer 1972).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Lojban Kalevala Project ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A most exciting project has commenced, starting at the first LogFest this year, crystallizing at the second one, and evolving thereafter on Lojban List.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This project is an attempt to develop a work of coherent original Lojban literature, one which would have the formative and perhaps normative effects on the language and its style that various epic works have had on the languages that they were written in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For several years, I&#039;ve used a reference to Chaucer and his Canterbury Tales in describing the context for such a project (Chaucer&#039;s work effectively defined the change from the era of &#039;Old English&#039; to what is now called &#039;Middle English), though I&#039;ve also mentioned Shakespeare (whose plays similarly gave birth to Modern English) in the same context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These might serve as good exemplars of the goal of such a project: to make the Lojban language come &#039;alive&#039;, but it is unlikely and probably undesirable for one single author in one single work to set the norms for Lojban. We are trying to avoid embedding the ideas of only one person or of only one culture as the basis of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, when I spotted a better exemplar, I started using it. The Finnish Kalevala, the sagas of the Nordic nations, and the myths of the Greeks, were not written by one person at one time. (Indeed, these stories and poems were not originally written, but probably transmitted for centuries as oral tradition.) Instead, these are collections of stories with a more-or-less common context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But as with Chaucer and Shakespeare, these collections are more than stories; they are among the oldest works in their respective languages and hence serve to define the earliest memory for most speakers of the language: of how the language was at its earliest known formation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a modern example of how collective authorship in a common context can work, the successful science fiction/fantasy series Wild Cards edited by George R. R. Martin, shows how people can write such stories using each other&#039;s characters as well as a common context (later volumes of the series show how editing can weave stories written by many individuals into a seamless novel which bears the stylistic elements of the contributors, but in a way where you cannot clearly tell what pieces were written by which authors).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban would be better off with such a body of stories (indeed it would become, in a sense, alive, at that point), and would be better served by having the stories written by a collective authorship composed of people from as broad a cultural spectrum as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the August LogFest, a concept for such a project was developed, along with a basis or methodology for common authorship. Lojbab assembled the concept into a proposal, and posted it to Lojban List, getting several people to express active interest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The project since has taken off on its own, though possibly in some ways changing from what was originally envisioned at LogFest. Lojbab has pretty much stayed out of the discussion since then, except to try to point out the interests of people who had no access to the computer networks, and hence could not defend their own interests. This must be a project of the community, and not his project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The people discussing the project, have chosen to use more prosaic names that reflect the specifics of the effort, rather than the paradigmatic goals. We will let the project continue with the several names it has acquired, remembering the multi-authored, multi-faceted, multi-cultural spirit in which it is envisioned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We want all of you who might be interested in this project to speak up. Now! You do not need to be a original, creative, writer - another hallmark of these ancient collections is that many of their stories are retellings of earlier legends and tales, sometimes of a different culture (examples: some scholars think that the Bible story of Noah and the flood is a retelling of an earlier story, that of Gilgamesh, Shakespeare&#039;s Julius Caesar was obviously built on the legends that the Romans evolved about that leader, and most of his other plays had plots plagiarized from other plays of the Middle Ages - plays since forgotten because they did not have the literary power and influence of Shakespeare.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But you don&#039;t need to be a Shakespeare either in quality or in volume of work, in order to make a contribution. You just need to do the best you can on a piece of the whole - a piece whose size and nature you can determine, whether it be a paragraph, a poem, a page, or a longer work. Indeed, there is some room for contribution from people who haven&#039;t yet learned Lojban, in contributing ideas for the common setting. (But we hope that most people who participate will do so with the intention of eventually writing some Lojban text in contribution to the project.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following several pages define the state the project has reached in the last few months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* First, Veijo Vilva, a Finnish Lojbanist who has taken a leadership role in the project, briefly summarizes what he sees the project to be, its current status, and where he thinks it should go in the future.&lt;br /&gt;
* Then follows a longer compendium, assembled by Veijo (with some additions by Lojbab), that embodies the essential discussions that have taken place in the last several months.&lt;br /&gt;
* Then follows the first submissions for a collection of English language texts written by people to serve as descriptions of the common context for the writings of the project. These may serve as examples of what we&#039;d like to see from people proposing additional descriptions of characters or setting (though please don&#039;t feel that you have to match the sometimes elaborate style of these writings).&lt;br /&gt;
* Mingled with the English texts (in the order in which they were originally posted, since some of the stories rely on &#039;earlier&#039; texts for information, or react to things mentioned in the earlier texts) are the most recent revisions of all Lojban writings written by people in conjunction with this phase of the project. Some of these writings have been attempts to help develop the common context in Lojban rather than in English, some experiments in trying to write within the context as it is known, and of course, all are attempts by the authors to improve their own Lojban abilities in the best way: by writing in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Currently the goal is to define the common context, and we want as many inputs as possible for this. As noted in the longer discussions, we are looking for text (in English, or in Lojban with English translation for those who can&#039;t easily read Lojban text yet) that a) further elaborates the common setting of the stories, a &#039;coffeehouse&#039; that will be defined with rich enough detail that people can tie their stories into the common context by referencing these hooks, and b) to define the major common characters that can be used (so long as nondestructively and consistently with the provided details) by any writer who wants to contribute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need you to act immediately and send us your ideas (on paper, diskette, or via email). JL18 (current deadline March 5) will contain as many additional writings and character descriptions, in either language, as we can fit. We will hopefully have more character descriptions submitted than we intend to actual use, in which case there will be a period of comment and voting until JL19 (current deadline June 5). (Additional ideas and proposals may also be submitted for this issue, but they will be at a handicap in any voting.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully by the time JL19 comes out with the results of this voting, the dictionary will have been published, and people will have a common language definition with which do begin writing. The extra 6 months and the large volume of Lojban writings that will hopefully be appearing will also help more people learn of enough of the language to be willing to try to write in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a proposal for a separate publication to contain only Lojban writings. As this proposal evolved, it grew away from the concept of the Kalevala project, expanding to be a journal of in-Lojban writing. The merits of this proposal are also for the community to decide, but I have taken this proposal more immediately to be a criticism of the excessive backlog in getting Lojban text printed in ju&#039;i lobypli, the relative infrequency of ju&#039;i lobypli, and perhaps a sense that text appearing in ju&#039;i lobypli represents an over-centralized attitude of what the language should be like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have thus taken action to change JL&#039;s editorial policy to reflect these implied criticisms (as well as get its publication frequency up to the intended quarterly rate). This may make the proposal moot, or may cause it to be a longer-term milestone that will occur only when the Lojban community is large enough that people write enough text to support a separate journal, and enough people are interested in reading such text to make a journal economically viable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where this project goes after JL19 is up to the community. A separate publication may be spun off. Someone may choose to try to edit the best writings into a publishable book. Or ... - well, you decide!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s Veijo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Veijo&#039;s Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Purpose of The Ckafybarja Project ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of the project is to encourage people to create original Lojban stories which have the following common features:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* as already stated the stories are original Lojban stories, not translations from other languages;&lt;br /&gt;
* they are closely connected with a coffeehouse which is described in detail in a set of English documentation available to all;&lt;br /&gt;
* the stories either take place or are told in the Cafe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The proposed Cafe Newsletter would widen the scope of material eligible for publication and make it easier for the beginning Lojban writers to produce something worthwhile.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== History ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The project has gone through several stages during the last few months. There were some preliminary postings concerning the lack of Lojban text - especially original text, not translations from other languages. It was noted that actually very few people did produce Lojban text or use Lojban in communicating with other Lojbanists. The ideas culminating in the project were formulated during the summer LogFests and the ensuing discussions on the net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Lojban Canterbury Tales ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first [1992] LogFest formulated the idea of encouraging people to write original Lojban stories with some common features. The basic idea was that there would be a place were people would gather to tell stories to each other like in the original Canterbury Tales or in The Decameron. The Finnish national epic Kalevala was also mentioned as a possible source of ideas and there were some discussions concerning the possibilities. The parts of these conversations which affected the development of the Project are included in the Papers. The discussions were at a very general level and nothing concrete was done at this stage. The name &#039;Kalevala&#039; was used in the headers of most of the postings which gave rise to the first name of the project proper.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Lojban Kalevala Project -&amp;gt; The Ckafybarja Project ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the second LogFest the Cafe idea was adopted and also the idea of having a detailed description of the locale and the personnel. This description would be in English in order to be readily accessible to everybody. It would serve two main purposes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) the stories by various writers would obviously describe the same Cafe;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) the less creative writers would be able to concentrate on the plot instead of also having to invent the settings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Three different settings were described but description #2 was the favourite already before the plan was posted and there was actually no further discussion on the net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were differences of opinion concerning various aspects of the description. Most of these have been resolved but some are in limbo and some are waiting comment from the non-netters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;Kalevala&#039; was quite soon dropped from the name of the project as there was no actual reason for the reference. I proposed the name &#039;la jbotur&#039; instead but it was never adopted by anybody else. The name of the Cafe was &#039;la *jbolaz&#039; for a while but this has turned out to be an invalid form [hence marked with an asterisk whenever it occurs herein].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Controversies ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When the Cafe Project proposal (The Lojban Kalevala Project) was posted on the net there was some disagreement concerning various aspects of the plan. The main reason for this was the fact that none of the most active netters had participated in the initial formulation. Some of the ideas presented on the net contradicted the original plan so some non-netters might feel that the very active netters were trying to dominate. The views of the netters (or of the most vocal of them) are being presented to non-netters in JL17; there has been no response yet. The conversation on the net has quieted down.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most controversial question was the characterization of the Cafe personnel - especially the proposed national heterogeneity. The main views presented are included in the &#039;Condensed Papers&#039; [found afterwards] and I am not going to reiterate them here. As far as I can see this question is still open - in all the others at least some kind of a consensus was achieved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Basic Settings ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A more detailed description of the settings is included in the Condensed Papers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cafe - A small cafe in rural surroundings (not visible from the inside). Predominantly Lojbanic clientele gathers there to tell stories. Some netters have already arrived. Nick advises to avoid interaction for the time being (cf. Condensed Papers)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Personnel - Multinational personnel, Chinese manager and 5 others representing the source languages of Lojban. Detailed characterization isn&#039;t available yet so avoid adding details in the stories. All the views presented on the net concerning the characterization ought to be studied most carefully by all potential writers. We need well thought-out characterizations which take into account the views presented by Ivan and others concerning the difficulty of realistically portraying national characteristics and the need to have recognizably non-American characters as desired by Lojbab and some non-netters. Mark pointed out that the characters must be such that later writers can live with them. They are basically background characters but writers may want to use them in their stories. Others may choose to ignore them in which case the characterizations don&#039;t really matter very much.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Accumulated Material ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English Descriptions - There isn&#039;t very much new descriptive material as the project hasn&#039;t actually started yet - in spite of the posting of the first preparatory Lojban texts. Nick Nicholas has added detail to the original Description #2 of the locale, David Bowen has described a Cafe manager, and I (Veijo) have proposed a Cafe worker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Text - Altogether 6 Lojban stories have been posted - a proper story by Mark Shoulson, a longish &#039;rant&#039; by Nick Nicholas, 2 short &#039;etudes&#039; by Veijo Vilva and a &#039;rant&#039; and a short tale by Iain Alexander. [A 7th piece, a 3-part character sketch by Nick, was posted but Nick has indicated that he intends to substantially rewrite it], Only the stories by Mark and Iain contain storytelling along the lines indicated in the plan, the others are more preparatory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These stories have resulted in a very active conversation on the net concerning various linguistic aspects - grammar, semantics, and pragmatics. One very challenging task for the future is the collection, editing and publication of the accumulating theoretical material so that the results of these conversations can be used by the whole Lojban community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Newsletter Proposal ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas posted a proposal concerning a Cafe Newsletter which would publish all kinds of Lojban text connected with the Cafe. The proposal is included in the Condensed Papers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The newsletter would actually widen the scope of the Lojban texts compared to the original plan. The original plan called for stories about the Cafe or stories told at the Cafe - the Newsletter would accept all kinds of original Lojban text connected with the Cafe, e.g. small studies like my &#039;etudes&#039; would be eligible for publication. This would be the first purely Lojban journal - all the theoretical material with English explanations and glosses would be published in ju&#039;i lobypli as would selected Lojban writings not connected with the Cafe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main purpose of the Newsletter would be to encourage and help beginning writers. The second raison d&#039;etre would be to show that we have advanced so far that Lojban can be used without English glosses. Perhaps the most advanced stories wouldn&#039;t be accessible to everybody but there would probably be a much greater number of easy and intermediate articles. I also think that having the stories without English glosses would be advantageous as the structure of Lojban - especially &#039;Lojbanic&#039; Lojban - is so different that providing an English version may actually hinder understanding or at least slow down the learning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== To would-be writers ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Start writing NOW!&lt;br /&gt;
# Don&#039;t set goals that are too ambitious. Remember that the published stories do not set a standard which you ought to match. Your first stories can be very short and use simple sentences. As an example, my first attempt, after minor corrections, may be found below [page 46].&lt;br /&gt;
# Start with simple things, do experiments with the language. Try to avoid formulating the ideas in English - otherwise you may have difficulties with astonishingly simple expressions.&lt;br /&gt;
# You may find to your surprise that it is often actually easier to express something in Lojban because you don&#039;t have to cope with the relatively free structure of English. Just drop the words to the proper slots and the unambiguous grammar of Lojban takes care of the rest.&lt;br /&gt;
# Don&#039;t force yourself to invent a story - it doesn&#039;t work. The story either comes or not. Pick up something and start writing about it - but do it now.&lt;br /&gt;
# The story isn&#039;t very important at this stage. It may be quite banal or even non-existent - if you find a Lojbanic way of expressing something, write it down.&lt;br /&gt;
# There is no stylistic tradition, you are completely free - within the dictates of the grammar, of course. If you end up expressing your thoughts in a way which doesn&#039;t resemble anything you ever read, it&#039;s quite alright.&lt;br /&gt;
# Don&#039;t be afraid of simple sentences. Lojban IS different. Writing a complex sentence which doesn&#039;t fall apart doesn&#039;t prove you know Lojban well - it is just a trivial exercise. Don&#039;t write a sentence which you can&#039;t readily understand yourself - even next week. You ought to be able to understand your sentences without parsing/analyzing/translating - at least the structure even if you don&#039;t remember all the words you had to pick from the word lists.&lt;br /&gt;
# It doesn&#039;t matter if you can&#039;t find a natural English way of expressing the idea of a sentence. Lojban IS different. A tanru, a lujvo, a sumti with attachments, a &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; at a unaccustomed position may all be very difficult to express naturally in English. Just accept it. Utilize it.&lt;br /&gt;
# Start writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Condensed Papers ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a record of the Development of the Ckafybarja Project, the Main Ideas, the Conversations and Differences of Opinion concerning the Characterization of the Cafe Personnel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a straight record of the conversations on the net. I have deleted a lot of material - either redundant or not essential for the project at the present stage. I have also taken the liberty of making some minor changes to the text following the deletions so that the resulting joints are more natural.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sometimes only first names appear in identifying comments. Full names for these people are Veijo Vilva, Nick Nicholas (alias la nitcion.), Iain Alexander, Lojbab (Bob LeChevalier), Colin Fine, Mark Shoulson, Nora LeChevalier, Andrew Smith, Ivan Derzhanski. We&#039;ve tried to spell everyone else&#039;s name out in full.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== A. Lojbab&#039;s original Lojban Canterbury Tales proposal ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: This LogFest was a fun gathering, and not one for work. Nothing really accomplished except to teach people a bit more of the language, use it a little, and socialize, learning more about each other. One topic of discussion was how to get more people doing something with the language. The topic segued into literature, original Lojban literature. One long thought-about idea that was discussed again was an interactive role playing project of the type often conducted at science fiction conventions, based on a Lojban-related scenario. Learning a little Lojban would give actor/players of the scenario an advantage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But a better idea surfaced, one that can get more involved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The germinal start of English as a literary language was Chaucer&#039;s Canterbury Tales, and someone mentioned that Italian has a similar medieval literary landmark, the Decameron. Perhaps other languages as well. The essence of the Canterbury Tales is that they are a bunch of 1st person tales, rich and colorful, often bawdy. Why not write something similar for Lojban, or at least start to do so. We can get a lot of people involved, who need only commit to writing a single short tale - a page long would be fine. A couple of the more expert Lojbanists - Nick, Ivan, and Mark, for example, might do some longer tales, perhaps about characters that might have a more complex story.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One charm of the Canterbury Tales is the variety of personalities of the characters - we can achieve that by having many authors. Stylistic consistency isn&#039;t necessary, since different people have different ways of talking. If you are relatively unskilled, you might want to choose a less-well educated character, but even this might not be a constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The question is how to devise a scenario around which people can write these short-short stories. Canterbury Tales takes place where travellers gather - an inn or bar. Do we tell tales of the people of mythical Lojbanistan? Or do we presume a modern or post-modern society, with people much like the spectrum found in the world today? One possibility proposed would be people on a space station, thus appealing to the SF fans among us - an international space station, wherein people like Ivan and Nick can bring in tales from other cultures. Some could be tales of earth, while others could be high adventure in space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One rule - if you have a specific story idea, whether you want to write it or not: don&#039;t talk about it in English. The stories are to be Lojban stories, and whatever appeal they have, as the first Lojban literature, will be emphasized by their not existing in English first. If you have trouble with the language, you can ask how-to-say-it questions on Lojban List, or send messages privately to Nick, Ivan, Colin, John Cowan, Mark Shoulson, or me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less experienced Lojbanists might team up on a story, in which case you can talk privately with each other in whatever language about your story, or if necessary, with one experienced Lojbanist that you interact with from the above list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chris Handley: Some points to remember about both Canterbury Tales and the Decameron:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# They were written by one person (and a genius at that);&lt;br /&gt;
# They were written fairly well into the flowering of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my opinion neither of these conditions apply to Lojban at the moment, which should not stop us doing something. Certainly a collection of stories along a central theme would be a great start to the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another suggestion would be another parlour game. One person starts off and writes part of a story (a para, a sentence, whatever). This is then passed to the next person in the list to continue, and so on. (In the normal version, you stop in mid sentence, but that may be a tad difficult).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I think the continued story idea is a good one, but you need really cooperative people to have it work. We did try it once with Lojban, but a certain person (who shall remain nameless) made a point of striving for truly strange twists in the story at every opportunity - strange enough that there was no possibility that the result could be interesting (as opposed to the process - which can be interesting in spite of strangeness, or because of it).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randall Helzermann: So is Lojban going to be the first language in which the &amp;quot;classic novel&amp;quot; was defined by a committee?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before going to the &amp;quot;great lojbanian novel&amp;quot; why not build a lojbanic tradition from the roots up? The first thing that should be written in my opinion is a primer on logical and critical thinking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: This might be nice, but:&lt;br /&gt;
# people seem to want to write creatively, and I will encourage any writing in Lojban for any reason&lt;br /&gt;
# I don&#039;t know anyone competent to write a primer on logical and critical thinking in English, much less in Lojban. Maybe Lojban will lead to the development of such a genius (if the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is true), but right now all we have is rather normal mostly-English native speakers writing non-fluently in a not quite living language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Randall: What?!? you yourself must have done an incredible amount of thinking about &amp;quot;logical and critical thinking&amp;quot; when designing Lojban, a language ostensibly made to encourage such.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How about a tractus on elementary logic then?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I did surprisingly little thinking about &amp;quot;logical and critical thinking&amp;quot;. Remember that I didn&#039;t design Lojban from scratch, but built on the original design by JCB. John Parks-Clifford (pc) and others have contributed significantly to the &#039;logical&#039; aspects of the language, and pc is probably the most competent in the intersection of logic and Lojban. As for myself, I nearly flunked logic in college, and rely on my wife and others when logic issues come up in Lojban, which frankly isn&#039;t often. People have felt almost no urge to use Lojban for logical expression, any more than they feel the urge to use English for it. Usually the ones want to do so use symbolic logic.&lt;br /&gt;
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I understand your point, but there really is no one who would write the book, and more importantly, probably no one who would read it. It seems like the same kind of idealistic project as the occasionally proposed Lojban dictionary, written entirely in Lojban. Such a book could be written, I think, but would be an exercise to prove a point and would probably not be very good, or much-used. Maybe some day, but not nearly yet.&lt;br /&gt;
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But thanks for the compliment. I&#039;m glad someone thinks I do things logically and clear-thinkingly around here zo&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
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My main reason for suggesting the Canterbury Tales approach is that we are currently being flooded with translations of a variety of materials from other languages, but almost no one (except Michael Helsem) has attempted significant original writing in Lojban. Since translation always involves some amount of interlingual compromise (as we&#039;ve seen in the phone game), only original writing in the language will lead to the development of true Lojban stylistics - something near and dear to Nick&#039;s heart, if not others&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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By making the length be at the writers&#039; options, we can get people like Nick, who could probably write a good, longer story, but also maybe encourage Chris, who has never posted longer than words and sentences, to contribute something. The advantage of having a common context for the stories, is that it is possible in such a context to tell a little anecdote in as little as a paragraph or two that can form part of the compendium as well as a longer story.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab (paraphrased): Those who have trouble coming up with plot lines can take stories from the great mythologies, and use their plots as the basis for Lojban stories. There are many little-known such stories. For example, Veijo, could we use stories from the Finnish epic, the Kalevala, as the basis for Lojbanic stories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: ... about the possibility of using The Kalevala as a starting point for the Lojban Canterbury Tales. It has taken me a while to sort things out as I didn&#039;t want to give a hasty answer. It&#039;s been quite a while since I read Kalevala - and not a total edition at that - and I had to do a quick sampling of it. I also read through a few reviews. I feel it&#039;s not much use taking an odd plot from Kalevala and trying to elaborate on that as Kalevala covers the whole spectrum of human life and the stories are not very unique.&lt;br /&gt;
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One outstanding feature of Kalevala is, however, the way mythos permeates everything in an almost pantheistic way. The scale is continuous from an almost imperceptible presence to personified entities - not quite Olympian in power but more on par with the main characters of the story who themselves cannot always be distinguished from the mythos. There is also a strong faith in the power of words - not any single, magic ones but prolonged singing which can drive an opponent up to his armpits into a swamp or build a boat, singing of real men, not mere boys nor of those feeble in body or character. Words do not offer a quick way out of a tight spot and at a crucial moment the vital words may be missing and must be sought for. Words are the key to the duality of the world - or even more as the metalevel of the poems is sometimes quite tightly interwoven with the subject matter. It&#039;s a world which is very difficult to portray convincingly in a different language - or even in present-day Finnish which isn&#039;t any more so rich in metaphor.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t think the way to founding original Lojban literature can be found in emulation. It takes great literary talent to transform an existing story into something worthwhile - not a mere imitation. A literature arises from an existing cultural and linguistic background and the only thing we have at hand is a half-baked language. This is the fact we must start from. If we are to lay the foundations of a literature we must look at the world - the language - we have. What is the world of Lojban like? What sets it apart from the rest? If you take Lojban sans tanru, lujvo and le&#039;avla it presents a remarkably Platonian view of the world. The most distinguishing feature of gismu and many cmavo is that they describe a very ideal world, every word brings out the essence, the underlying principle of a class of phenomena. In most natural languages the general is described in terms which are either alien or complex, in Lojban the opposite prevails. This makes it possible to present a distilled view of the surrounding world without resorting to unnatural expressions and also to contrast the general and the particular in a single utterance or even a single bridi. The avoidance of tanru and lujvo can be thought of as another form of controlled and recognizable ellipsis - only the essential is expressed and the particular is suppressed. Other areas where Lojban excels are the tense system, the attitudinal and emotional indicators and of course the connectives. We have a very rich apparatus offering unprecedented opportunities for expression but do we have something to say?&lt;br /&gt;
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I think we mustn&#039;t hurry. We need the stories, the literature, but we must not push things. We must first try to see the world - a slice of the present, some particular past, the future - through Lojban &#039;glasses&#039;. The literary world we eventually create must have a distinct Lojban flavour to it, it mustn&#039;t be a mere re-representation of some other world. It doesn&#039;t suffice to avoid translation, the world must be conceptualized in a Lojban way from the ground up. I don&#039;t think the stories need much of a plot, the settings give enough opportunities for fruitful utilization of the language. Even quite ordinary things can form the scaffolding around which the story unfolds. If you read the stories by e.g. Ray Bradbury, quite many of them have a negligible plot. The something hangs in the atmosphere, in many little things. That, of course, takes great talent. I don&#039;t know whether any of us can muster that but we ought to be able to utilize Lojban for the necessary special effects - with due constraint. The thing mustn&#039;t be overdone, we are not aiming to produce a linguistic fire-works. The language ought to be utilized subtly to produce a mosaic of shadow and sun-light, soft generalizations against which sharp detail can be engraved, the dull monotonous every-day or whatever described in a few, quick indicators and the richer moments of life in ever increasing detail using the full array of tools available for the task. If we don&#039;t try to reproduce the world in the way we are accustomed to see it, to use the imagery of our respective native languages - or our secondary languages - but try to see our surroundings through the Lojban glasses I think we may find quite many things worth depicting.&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps we don&#039;t need the past or the future to provide the alienating background but can contemplate the present in the stories. It may even be more fruitful to start with something small. I once read a book called &#039;Writing the natural way&#039; where the author told about a student of hers who had trouble in writing an essay about her home town. She told the student to concentrate on successively smaller and smaller details until finally they were down to an individual brick in the wall of a specific building at which point the student suddenly started to write and produced a quite respectable essay about the brick in no time flat. We may have to take a similar route to get started. But for now - let&#039;s start looking around.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick:&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow.&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean that quite sincerely.&lt;br /&gt;
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I mean, when I bemoan Lojban stylistics, I usually see the trees - the complexities of nesting, the uncertainties of place structures in flux (lujvo and gismu), the markedness of attitudinals. You, Veijo, seem to have struck at the essence. It is absolutely true that Lojban (and any language) sustain their own world (it is also true that one should not be too flashy in pursuing the manifestations of this world, as happens often in Esperanto literature); it is also true that exploring this world is the great task awaiting Lojban literature. And it is even more true that my translations so far have not done any such exploration (interestingly enough, David Twery&#039;s ckafyzda diary did - not just because it was original writing, but because it looked at the cafe in the staccato, explicit way we will come to expect of Lojban...).&lt;br /&gt;
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John Cowan: On substantive matters, I associate myself with everything that Veijo says, and I express my immense admiration for the way that he says it. I, too, believe that language naturally leads to mythology, and that mythologies are not really transferable. (Tolkien started inventing his conlangs for the pure &amp;quot;philological&amp;quot; pleasure of it, and found that they led him inexorably to mythopoetic.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab (written in December): Notwithstanding Veijo&#039;s excellent points, the idea I intended in raising the Kalevala as an example is that plot ideas for short stories of classic interest are easy to find. Many of the plots of stories in classic literature are not original plots; for example, most of Shakespeare&#039;s plays are unoriginal plots, based on either on history, or on retellings of tales that were already set into plays or verse. The intent is not to encourage translation of the untranslatable epic of a national culture, but to point out that anyone who reads can take a story they&#039;ve seen in another language, in another form, and retell the plot in their own words, perhaps inventing some new characters. For example, one of my kids just brought home a children&#039;s book, retelling the classic fairy tale of Jack and the Beanstalk from the first person point of view of Jack (who sees things perhaps a little differently and from a more childlike perspective than the impersonal narrator of the classic version). The story, even while being told in a simplistic children&#039;s &amp;quot;see Spot run&amp;quot; manner (and not very well, in my opinion), conveys a sense of Jack&#039;s motivations that would seem out-of-place in a third-person narrative.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, one suggestion, for someone who feels that they cannot come up with a plot idea to write about: take a story, perhaps a fairy tale or legend, that you have read or heard, figure out some way that the events of the story, or something akin to them, might take place in a modern or post-modern environment, and attempt to retell it as a first person narrative, conveying some sense of the emotions experienced by the storyteller using Lojban attitudinals.&lt;br /&gt;
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The story will not be a simple English (or Finnish) story anymore, nor necessarily a mere imitation of the original, because you will have added some original point-of-view. And if the result is not great literature, but merely &amp;quot;a pale imitation&amp;quot; anyway, because your writing skill isn&#039;t that great, I say that even a pale imitation of some of the greatest of literature is likely to be a better-than-average yarn.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, I am recommending this primarily to people who think they cannot come up with something more &amp;quot;original&amp;quot;. Original stories are fine, and indeed are especially encouraged. If you develop a story naturally out of simply narrating in a Lojbanic manner, you will have achieved what we are seeking from this effort, and bring Lojban alive as a language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: One of the first things we&#039;ll have to do when we start to use Lojban creatively is to chart the most obvious ways of twisting it in our quest for expressive ability. Although a language has an unambiguous grammar and words with but a single meaning, it must somehow allow for linguistic surprise - otherwise something is lost.&lt;br /&gt;
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The regularity of the language will force us to find the materials for the element of surprise in the choice of words and metaphors - and also in some kind of contrapunctive juxtaposition of syntactical structures, perhaps in a wise choice of modals or imaginative personal tenses. Quantification of expressive power in a language is probably something quite unattainable. Even though we can make sure that the Lojban grammar covers all the necessary aspects and are pretty convinced that tanru and lujvo can expand the vocabulary to the required extent, we cannot have any short term certainty in this respect.&lt;br /&gt;
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Expression is a two-way process. It is no use having an elegant expression if no one can really feel what you are trying to say. In English - or any other living language - we build our expressions to rest on the solid foundation of the linguistic imagery which forms large parts even of the unconscious mind of the potential readers. In Lojban we have nothing like this available. Even the most advanced of us will have to struggle - probably for years to come - to attain a level of competency where reading is no more an intellectual exercise but a living experience. To really feel the language requires that it flows in you relatively effortlessly. You must have a background against which to contrast the author&#039;s way of saying things. Esperanto is so much like the mainstream Indo-European languages that the early literary efforts could build on the existing imagery. Lojban is conceptually so different that we have no such easy way out of our predicament. The imagery will have to be different otherwise we may end up using modals to rebuild the alien imagery. At this stage translations may contain seeds of peril as we don&#039;t yet have a living tradition to protect the language from the dominance of external influences. I don&#039;t implicate that we ought to exclude these influences totally. The language needs the common imagery of the whole mankind and perhaps even large sections of the heritage of the main cultures but this imagery must trickle in in a controlled way, not as an avalanche.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== B. The Lojban Kalevala Project =&amp;gt; The Ckafybarja Project ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: On Lojban List, there has been discussion for the last month on what I once called the Lojban Canterbury Tales. Several major cultures trace their earliest cultural and linguistic identity to a collection of stories written in the language. These include Chaucer&#039;s Canterbury tales, which basically defined the birth of Middle English, Shakespeare, who did the same for Modern English, the Decameron for Italian, the tales of the Arabian Nights for Arabic. Veijo Vilva&#039;s moving comments about the necessary birth of a Lojban stylistics through original literature, written under the subject title of &amp;quot;The Kalevala&amp;quot;, seems to have shifted the focus of comparison to that relatively unknown mythic collection. I&#039;ll leave it to people to come up with a suitably jingling name to supplant &amp;quot;The Kalevala Project&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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With the impending completion of the first Lojban dictionary, it is time for people to write originally in Lojban (rather than in translation from other languages) and hence to explore the unique point-of-view and style that Lojban&#039;s unusual nature might bring to narrative (the assumption of the uniqueness of this point-of-view actually assumes Sapir-Whorf is true, but we&#039;ll ignore that problem for now).&lt;br /&gt;
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We had a long discussion at LogFest, and Veijo&#039;s comments about basing the story(s) on a uniquely Lojbanic world-view, coupled with Nick Nicholas&#039;s identification of what writings seemed to him to best represent a budding Lojban culture, underlay much of the discussion and its current resolution.&lt;br /&gt;
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The goal is Lojban stories written from a common narrative starting point, written by as many different people as possible, each of varying Lojban skill levels.&lt;br /&gt;
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Quickly ruled out was a scenario involving medieval times, which would severely restrict the scope of stories that could be told, and a space travel scenario, with people travelling together telling stories of their home worlds. Unfortunately, this type of scenario would require a lot of what SF people call &amp;quot;world-building&amp;quot; - every story would need the added baggage of devising a believable &#039;world&#039; wherein it takes place, and making that unique world come alive. Even the better SF writers often fail at the &#039;world-building&#039; game, and it seems too much to ask of the non-expert writers who will be trying to bring Lojban to life, to ask them to bring totally new worlds to life as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still the idea is to bring people together in a situation where they will tend to tell stories, a process that takes time when a lot of stories are to be told. In modern society, people are simply not thrown together in numbers sufficient for such storytelling. There was a suggestion of a scenario involving a story-telling contest of some type, but this didn&#039;t fire people&#039;s imagination. In retrospect, I think such a competition would have caused problems in that some of the short-shorts that beginning Lojbanists might write won&#039;t be in the same story-telling league as longer stories told by more experienced Lojbanists. I&#039;d rather see people write well what they feel comfortable at writing about, and not try to compete with other Lojbanists, better or worse, which I think a competition theme would naturally lead to. The goal is Lojban stories written from a common narrative starting point, written by as many different people as possible, each of varying Lojban skill levels.&lt;br /&gt;
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We came up with a scenario that allows, and even encourages, a motley collection of stories of varying lengths. We decided to draw on the limited range of &#039;Lojban culture&#039; that exists today. The first such element identified was the &amp;quot;Jimbob&amp;quot; &#039;rant&#039; (as David Twery labelled it) that we published in JL16. We talked of the stories that the Jimbobs might tell each other while &amp;quot;working in the sandpits&amp;quot; while the Esperantists climbed their wall and the apes came abseiling down. Several people liked this idea, but others objected violently. To them, the Jimbob allegory makes for a distracting setting for telling a story - it is a story in itself and not a setting; it is also a humorous, indeed ridiculous setting, and might ruin a story with a serious tone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then we turned to David Twery&#039;s coffee-house (ckafyzda) text [hopefully to be published in JL18], which Nick has identified as the first authentic-seeming &amp;quot;Lojban world-view&amp;quot; text. It also allows Lojbanists, many of whom are SF fans, to get inspiration from a variety of similar ideas used in SF stories, including the &amp;quot;White Hart&amp;quot; tales of Arthur C. Clarke, and the Callahan&#039;s Bar tales of Spider Robinson. For a brief while we had the compromise situation of a coffee house on the edge of the sand pits, allowing both indoor and outdoor settings for storytelling, but the anti-pit people eventually came up with a better approach.&lt;br /&gt;
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We devised an interesting, Lojban-allegorical coffeehouse which is interesting enough to serve as the subject of stories, as well as a backdrop for the telling of stories. The concept is a coffeehouse with an international flavor in which Lojban is spoken. The atmosphere is vaguely contemporary, but somewhat timeless. Indeed, one idea was to leave the outside of the coffeehouse, i.e. its locale, essentially unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
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Description #2 below, the current strong favorite, is probably in a rural or mountainous setting, since it suggests that the sandpits are nearby if not immediately present, but unlike our starting premise, the sandpits are not essential to the description (though they clearly inspired the climbing equipment). But people voting for description #2 in many cases specified that they wanted the windows removed from the description, so that the outside remains undefined. What will likely happen is that we will see how things develop from what we have, and add more details as needed by specific authors as the culture of the coffeehouse becomes further defined.&lt;br /&gt;
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The coffeehouse has 6 employees, each a representative of a culture using one of the source languages for Lojban (There was a lot of debate over whether to use a British or American representative for English, and I would have suggested Australian in honor of Nick, but people settled on American because unfortunately the majority of Lojbanists, who are mostly Americans, may be familiar only with American culture, and we don&#039;t want to shut people out of this effort for cultural blindness.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We were able to identify a number of &amp;quot;roles&amp;quot; to be filled in a coffeehouse: manager, cook, waiter/waitress, busboy, cashier. [clarification: the American English word &#039;busboy&#039;, or perhaps &#039;bus-person&#039; cleans tables at the end of a meal and prepares them for new patrons.]&lt;br /&gt;
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But some of these are seen as of a lower, subservient nature as compared with others. Rather than risk association of some culture being seen as stereotypically sub-servient by tying a character of that culture to a particular role (e.g., the Chinese busboy), the workers rotate jobs, giving the job of cook to a different person each night, with the effect that the menu is both international, exotic, and a bit unpredictable. The manager was assigned to the Chinese character, based on Chinese as the most populous of the Lojban languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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A friend of Karen Stein&#039;s who came to LogFest, Phil, wrote up three descriptions based on this concept. Description #2 was favored provided that the windows were removed from the description, and thus the need to describe what is outside the windows.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile there is further work to be done, some of which requires knowledge of Lojban, some that requires only imagination. More details of the setting need to be worked out, eventually giving enough information that a detailed floor plan of the coffeehouse can be drawn, with locations of everything marked, so that people writing stories can be consistent in describing the scene wherein the story is told (given that the exterior environment is undefined, there is no particular need for consistency, or even implied truth, in the stories themselves, but it was felt that this collection, being written by a large number of authors of varying styles, needed to have some one thing that all authors could share and rely upon to the finest detail.&lt;br /&gt;
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Indeed the coffeehouse description will be described and finalized in English, to make sure that everyone understands all the details in a consistent manner. It also allows people to use a variety of Lojban expressions and forms to describe the English-defined setting. Thus the descriptions by various authors will not read exactly the same, yet the place they are describing will obviously be the same place.&lt;br /&gt;
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We welcome and indeed encourage people to write descriptions in Lojban, recognizing that the description will have to be translated into clear English. But this gives people something to write about in Lojban, and you can if you choose use your Lojban text as a starting point for an eventual story for the collection.&lt;br /&gt;
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The third phase of the scenario definition is to define the six characters in enough depth that people can include them in the backdrop to their stories and have them recognizably be the same people. The details should range from gender, age, and appearance, to personality, distinctive mannerisms, and outside interests that might serve as jumping off places for a story when the indicated person comes up to the table with a tray of food, or coffee.&lt;br /&gt;
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This phase will be conducted in the manner of a contest followed by a vote. Write a character sketch of one of the characters, putting as much or as little detail into your description as you care to. The contest will be announced in JL17 (but I&#039;d like to have a couple of samples by then), and thus people have plenty of time to write good descriptions before a voting a couple of months later, with the results of all phases of this introductory work appearing in JL18, I hope. All those who submit any ideas, text, description, or otherwise indicate definite interest in participating in the project will be eligible to vote. Again, character descriptions can be written in Lojban, but we will also need English translations.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, the polycultural polylinguistic background of the characters has led me to identify a fourth task that the more skilled Lojbanists can start on now, independent of the actual descriptions of the characters (or at least it may be so). Each of our 6 cultural representatives will be a native speaker of their own language - Lojban is the lingua franca that all share, and the lingua franca of those who patronize the coffeehouse as well (hence stories told in Lojban therein). But Lojban has many possible styles, and some of these styles will be dependent on the native language of the speakers. Thus, the Hindi speaker may be prone to SOV-order sentences, the Chinese speaker to strange-to-English-speakers tanru, and the Arabic speaker to flowery metaphor. The Russian speaker may choose lujvo forms that are heavy in consonant clusters, whereas the Chinese speaker will minimize clusters and maximize vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t pretend to know enough of the non-English source languages to try to describe them in any detail, but some Lojbanists like Ivan Derzhanski probably do; others might be willing to research. The result will be perhaps a short sample of Lojban &amp;quot;conversation&amp;quot; and of &amp;quot;narrative&amp;quot; styles for each of the six characters (perhaps each of them describing the same scene to make for ready comparison), along with an English language description of the essential linguistic ingredients that comprise the style, so that others can try to emulate the styles when writing. The ideal will thus be, along with distinctive personalities for the 6 characters, a distinctive style of Lojban speech that will identify the characters and also lend authenticity to the style.&lt;br /&gt;
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Here are the proposed descriptions. For #1, the offending-to-some picture sentences are bracketed. Someone suggested the carpet might be made brown to hide coffee stains.&lt;br /&gt;
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===== Description #1 =====&lt;br /&gt;
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My eyes had to adjust to the difference in lighting. The light in the place came from the twelve stain glass tiffany lamps which hung from the ceiling over a table. Low wattage bulbs cast a pale light around a place which measured some 10 meters in length and some 5 meters across. The tables have four chairs set around each of them, and as I sat down in the green cushioned chair I was shown, I had a chance to survey the rest of this place I found myself. The table settings had white linen napkins with an embroidered design of a type unfamiliar to me. The silverware was of a plain though excellent in quality, in addition there was a set of chopsticks incorporated into the traditional place setting. There were no coffee cups set out on the tables. [Along the walls hung pictures, and many of these were of people whom I did not recognize, and always with the same person, presumably the manager of this establishment.] Each picture had a gold frame, and the expressions in the pictures ranged across every known emotion. The floor was carpeted with a green shag of similar shade to the chairs, as a result the only sounds that one hears is the gentle flapping to the door going into the kitchen, and the whispers of conversations occurring at the nearby tables. [The place was quiet, still, at peace, as the man in all the pictures is approaching me. ...]&lt;br /&gt;
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Description #2 is the current favorite, having references to existing Lojban texts that might somehow be worked into the stories-to-be-told, possibly with modification. The main objection is to the windows, that would require a description of the outside. (The outside might, but need not, be in a mountainous rural area where rock climbing is done - or sand pits. We didn&#039;t want to be stuck with Don Harlow&#039;s El Capitan reference of the original Jimbob story - not everyone knows what Yosemite looks like, and who says that the coffeehouse is even anywhere in America.) A possible modification would be to make the windows high up, or frosted so that people can&#039;t see through them. This provides the light without the undefined scenery.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Note: This is not the original text prepared by Phil. The stairs from Ivan&#039;s story printed in this issue were originally misunderstood to be a ladder, and a ladder was therefore added to the description. Though we&#039;ve learned that the ladder in the coffeehouse bears no resemblance to the marble stairs of Ivan&#039;s story, the concept in a room furnished in climbing equipment, of using a climbing ladder to access a trap door (presumably leading to the attic, wherein other artifacts may be found that could inspire more stories) fits the scenario even if the specific association with Ivan&#039;s story is excluded. Indeed, someone of Ivan&#039;s culture might see the ladder, and use it as a lead-in to tell that story. That is the purpose of having detailed decor with potential heavy symbolism - it allows people hooks to hang a story on, either a new story or one from their native culture.]&lt;br /&gt;
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===== Description #2 =====&lt;br /&gt;
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As I walked under the crossed climbing axes, and into the coffeehouse, I felt I was in a place designed to give one the feeling of putting on an old comfortable pair of shoes. [The large arched windows filled the dining area with light, and since all of the booths were lined along the outside, every booth had a superb view of the .] The benches were made of old soft oak, in which many tales and symbols had been carved. On the bench I was seated was the inscription: &amp;quot;Members of the first sandpit expedition to find the first digger, or traces thereof - 198?&amp;quot; The table also bore other marks of former patrons who had drank their selections and transcribed their feelings with pitons. The walls were littered with climbing apparel and debris in what might charitably have been termed a collage. There were the rusting remains of pitons and hooks abutting practically new lengths of the latest high test rope. Opposite the door from which I had entered was a ladder - a climbing ladder, of course. The ladder reached to the ceiling, and a solid-looking trap door that made me wonder of the unknown relics that lay beyond, and the stories they might hold. Underneath these visible artifacts were the dour reminders of the primary business of this establishment-coffee. There were full wooden bins of coffee from just about every place in the world, with or without caffeine. The cook was visible to all and in the process of developing the latest creation on the current menu, and not without some debate about the amount of spice the particular dish required. This happy riot provided the counterpoint to the hissing, and boiling of a near endless stream of coffee beans in response to the always cold, often frustrated, and very determined clientele.&lt;br /&gt;
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#3 is a distinctly unsavory place, or savory indeed if that is the type of place you like. People seemed to feel strongest about this one, in both positive and negative directions.&lt;br /&gt;
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===== Description #3 =====&lt;br /&gt;
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The current dart game was in progress, with its normally furious dispute about scoring from its very stressed participants. I had walked in for my usual pot of Jamaican Blue Mountain, this being the only place I could get it every day, and I sat down in my usual table, one of the few which had a level table, and reasonably sound chairs. I reviewed the familiar surroundings. Aside from the dart game, which had a wall in which the number of dart holes appeared to compromise the structural integrity of the building, there was the varnished hardwood floor, which was again showing the effects of the heavy traffic of the numbers and shoes of the customers. The place closes for a week once every three years, just so the management can refinish the floor. The other tables were showing their wear from the customers. Some of the tables were still in good shape, but most were worn out from the life that seemed to pour out of the customers and into the furniture, the poor furniture was not designed for this. As a result, these old maple and pine pedestal tables had not only seen better days, they had seen better years. However, like the dart game, the often refinished floor, and the old sunbeam coffee machines, and cast iron cooking utensils I have often seen cleaned, they are irreplaceable. There is an identity to this place, that while the customers may come and go, this place will be what they share in common.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Chinese - Manager; Russian - Cook/Wait/Bus/Dishwasher; American - Cook/Wait/Bus/- Dishwasher; Arabic - Cook/Wait/- Bus/Dishwasher; Hindi - Cook/- Wait/Bus/Dishwasher; Spanish - Cook/Wait/Bus/Dishwasher. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Rotating Menu, With Chinese overtones because of manager &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;International Menu&lt;br /&gt;
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===== Discussion =====&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: This is a most capital suggestion. I&#039;m for it full throttle. I mean, sure, the unsympathetic outsider would find our scampering for any hint of cultural imagery self-conscious and flimsy. But this project is just perfect for us. We can get cosy in it; we can all write like Twery :), in that detached, detail-seeking chain of sumti I find so endearing; we can concentrate on the tiniest details (Lojban is ideally suited for that tutorial application Veijo mentioned - start writing about a town by writing about a single brick in a building in the town).&lt;br /&gt;
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We should not be afraid to put into the story that which we are, either. No need to exoticise or aggrandise our late-20th-century mundaneness and splinter interests (the exotic is not unwelcome, of course).&lt;br /&gt;
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The unsympathetic outsider might also scoff at our attention to detail (the colour of the carpet?!) - but no, this all matters.&lt;br /&gt;
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It&#039;s right to reject Jimbobs as a story basis; a bit too selfconscious, and intended as a cliquey thing. Still, veiled references to current pitwork wouldn&#039;t help, and would allow a lot of therapeutic mutual ego massaging :) What with the allegory really being Don Harlow&#039;s brainchild, I wonder what reference we make to the Esperantists going up the mountain - and in general, how much we let the outside world (including merko) impinge on the Cafe goings on.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have a couple of thoughts on the Cafe personnel and the decor; I&#039;ll get back to you. My jimbobism makes me go for #2, with #3 as an alternative. Do we go for equal ratios of men and women? Do we have any minorities or &amp;quot;deviations&amp;quot; in the personas, or keep them mainstream? [Clarifying later: Actually, I was thinking sexual minorities. I expect we can also assume homophobia to have been eradicated in Lojbanistan.] Hm. We shall see.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dang, this WILL be fun :)&lt;br /&gt;
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The names will have to be native Lojban (rafsi):&lt;br /&gt;
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.u&#039;isai.u&#039;uru&#039;e mi pu nalmorji lenu cusku lei se stidi cmene. We could have &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{cic.} (&amp;quot;Wildman&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{cis.} (&amp;quot;Hot Pants&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{cit.} (&amp;quot;Kid&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{ciz.} (&amp;quot;Wierdo&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{dar.} (&amp;quot;Daredevil&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{dib.} (&amp;quot;Darl&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{din.} (&amp;quot;Moneybag&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{dir.} (&amp;quot;Mr. Kibbitz&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{duk.} (&amp;quot;Worrywart&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{fad.} (&amp;quot;Norm&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{fad.} (&amp;quot;Mr Attitude&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{faz.} (&amp;quot;Dennis the Menace&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{fun./xaufun.} (&amp;quot;Lucky&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(these are all #3 names, eh?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- or for less unsavoury: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{sax.} (&amp;quot;Harmonia&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{glek.} (&amp;quot;Felicia&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{vir.} (&amp;quot;Carl&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{nol.} (&amp;quot;Adolf&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{tir.} (&amp;quot;Ferris&amp;quot;) ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: Whoever wants to write a story with Chinese, (Hindu) Indians, or Arabs among the characters had better be very familiar with the corresponding cultures. I wouldn&#039;t venture anything of the sort, and therefore make the following &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counterproposal. Don&#039;t specify any national identity or cultural background for the characters. Make them representatives of an abstract, undetermined, or fictitious nation. In this case they might be Lojbanis by birth, for example. Assume, for the purpose of the game, that everyone&#039;s skin is the same colour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise you risk to end up with a story that no Arab (say) would find plausible.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Later clarifying:] When I proposed that, I was mainly thinking of the stories of Alexander Grin, one of my favourite authors. The events in his stories happen in a country which doesn&#039;t exist in the real world, and even no hint is given as to its location on the map (though it is clear that it is a warm area :- )). The characters, natives of that country, are not associated with any of the existing cultures. Yet they are by no means colourless - in fact, they are as colourful as anything - and they are not in the least Russian in culture (that is Grin&#039;s own nationality).&lt;br /&gt;
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[On sexual minorities:] ... Now I&#039;m going to milxe disagree. We aren&#039;t going to break all existing conventions at once, are we? We&#039;re in an imaginary land, our characters talk in Lojban, that&#039;s about enough. I think I could do with three men and three women, all of them heterosexual.&lt;br /&gt;
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[On staffing:] I don&#039;t see why we need the staff to be rotating. That&#039;s not how coffeehouses in the real world are anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Nick: Mmm... OK, don&#039;t have &#039;em rotating shrug. Cuts the numbers down to five.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: As a quick first comment I support these opinions. It&#039;s better to make these &#039;background&#039; characters as neutral as possible so that the writers don&#039;t get into unnecessary problems. The characters and the storytellers/- observers in the actual stories are another matter. A visitor dropping into the cafe isn&#039;t observing the &#039;common&#039; world when in the cafe. His story or the story he is listening to while in the cafe may describe various ethnic/national/linguistic groups but the narrator&#039;s relationship to the cafe ought to reflect his relationship to the Lojbanic culture. He may be a full-blown lojbo or still have one foot in his original culture which will affect the way he describes the settings, the balance between superficial and essential details. Maybe even the male/female dichotomy is superfluous in this context.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Neutral, yes, but not characterless. Exploring stylistic stereotypes (the sledgehammer JL15 I&#039;m prone to) should be fun. I already had in mind a tanru-ist, an attitudinalist, an anaphorist and an SVO-ist, as well as the obligatory Prolog speaker :)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the monomania of exploring every facet of familiar objects in a familiar surrounding (the old brick thing) is highly pertinent to this do. Plots and tales aren&#039;t essential; a laidback, look-at-what-everyone-else-is-doing-and-how-that-crack-on-the-wall-runs attitude is just as appropriate here.&lt;br /&gt;
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In a boisterous environment like #2, given we&#039;ve taken out the cultural differences, I&#039;d prefer it if the boisterousness were sustained by some heterogeneity amongst the cafe personnel.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Remember, guys, these are the background characters. It&#039;d be fine to give them some flavor and all, but don&#039;t think they&#039;re the only ones around, nor the key ones (except perhaps in some rare &amp;quot;Cook&#039;s Tale&amp;quot; or something).&lt;br /&gt;
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... [Gender] doesn&#039;t make a whole lot of difference, really. Bear in mind that this is Lojban we&#039;re dealing with; you needn&#039;t know anyone&#039;s sex unless it becomes important. I could see the waiter&#039;s sex never mentioned until five stories down the line when somehow it makes a difference. It&#039;d be nice to keep it equal, so bear that in mind if it becomes necessary to specify someone&#039;s gender.&lt;br /&gt;
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Your own characters, that&#039;s something else. Remember, these characters are not the ones doing most of the story-telling. The ones doing that are the patrons whom you bring in. They may have their own idiosyncrasies, culture, bias, whatever. In fact, I imagine the chief method of finding out people&#039;s sex/color/- accent/whatever might be seeing things from the point of view of a patron who happens to be particularly concerned about such things.&lt;br /&gt;
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Keep them neutral. I don&#039;t think you have to go out of your way to try to convince me they&#039;re native lojbananas, and I always feel funny about overusing the rafsi-as-name bit; you just can&#039;t trust it. I like the idea of giving them distinct, but distinctly lojbanic, speaking styles, but perhaps it would be better not to go too carefully this route, and play with that in one of your own stories with a few patrons you bring in (if you think you can do it and still make the story work, which Ivan fears wouldn&#039;t happen). Remember: If you want something in a character, it can walk in the door. The patrons, over which each writer has more or less complete control, are the ones which make the stories click. The staff is background.&lt;br /&gt;
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Your plan might be a good idea, Nick, but it may make writing a real challenge for normal folk. Remember, the staff are characters that everyone has to live with. If you want a few characters that you can deal with that have such speech styles, the door&#039;s right over there, and here they come. It&#039;s unfair to ask a beginning speaker to incorporate such clevernesses into his writings by making characters common to all the stories have these traits.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tell me, when was the last time you could tell at a glance the sexual orientation of your waiter? Um, badly put (wedding rings are a giveaway). I mean, that&#039;s not something anyone would notice or care about unless it chanced to become important in a story. If you want someone with orientation X, have him/her/it/them walk in the front door, under the climbing axes. If you feel a need to attach that kind of info to a staff member, make sure nobody has beaten you to it, and then think twice before doing it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember, though, that when you tweak the background or the staff, you&#039;re messing with something that all the writers have to live with. Don&#039;t build your world and force everyone else to live in it; bring your world into everyone else&#039;s. In fact, if you really need the waiter to be a certain way, you might even consider having a replacement waiter that day, just to be on the safe side.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Oh, ok. Still, these&#039;ll be the people we come home to in every episode; they do have to be &amp;quot;character actors&amp;quot;. It seems I missed the point of these characters, nevertheless, for which I duly apologise.&lt;br /&gt;
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While I want them to be boisterously different from each other, I also want them to have common reference points - I want them, as a mass, to provide a feeling of home (Lojbanistan?) against which the protagonists are foregrounded. Of course, since we don&#039;t know what being a native Lojbani would entail, we can&#039;t exaggerate this.&lt;br /&gt;
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... best is to keep [differences in speech] subtle (not whack whack zo&#039;u VSO); since that&#039;ll take a lot of finesse (which I&#039;m not sure I have), we might as well play this one down. Still, a vague guideline (this character prefers tanru, this one expands) won&#039;t hurt overmuch.&lt;br /&gt;
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[As for backgrounds,] I won&#039;t mess with what&#039;s there, but I would like something reasonably explicit there to build on. I am going to describe a particular crack in a wall :)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Ivan asks for several changes, all of which remove detail from the persons and scenery details. To write a good story, the details must be present. If we do not specify the culture of the characters, they will have no culture; i.e. they will be colorless, which is exactly what we don&#039;t want.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (Ivan: Not necessarily. They simply won&#039;t be identified with any one of the existing cultures.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually they won&#039;t be - with mostly Americans in the Lojban community, they will all end up as nondescript American in culture. I would rather attempt and fail to capture hints of a foreign culture than not to attempt at all, and have the result seem too American. We may not succeed in capturing a true Arabic or Hindi culture (but then we might come close), but we will get a somewhat non-American culture. One would expect in any case that with people representing 6 cultures interacting on a constant basis that none of the characters would be &#039;pure&#039; in representing their culture - after all, they do not live with their own people (at least not likely).&lt;br /&gt;
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: (Ivan: Getting a non-American culture is great, but calling it Arabic or Hindi (by the way, what is Hindi culture? I&#039;ve never heard of such), without having a close familiarity with the real ones, would be way too bold.)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: (Nick: Agreed. But not inappropriate details, which will lead us to embarrassment. Your Hindi-speaking co-owner will either be: US (or Australian) assimilated, to some extent or other (just like all the Hindi-speakers I know), or a caricature. We need some character and colouring in the owners. But talking about cultures we don&#039;t know enough about (I mean, gee, what do I come up with as a character trait for a Hispanic?) is plain too risky. Seek diversity elsewhere, in that which we are familiar with, and that which everyone is familiar with. Having them come out Americans is not the ultimate problem (besides, there are enough of us outside the States to avoid that); you don&#039;t need to hunt down the exotic. There is little more mundane and more Anglo-cultural than la tuerp.&#039;s [David Twery] or la .andruc.&#039;s [Andrew Smith] writing; and yet their work has the immediate charm of being comfortably Lojbanic that we seek.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The setting must be well-developed and self-consistent. The stories told indeed must stand on their own, but if we are to have any cohesiveness to a set of stories written by a a variety of people, many with no particular talent for literary writing, we need some common setting that is well enough developed that the stories hang together. Otherwise we just have an anthology of random stories, which loses the joint-ness of the project.&lt;br /&gt;
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The effort of those who worked hard to come up with the scenario, and the rather inspirational effect it seemed to have as the coffeehouse came together in peoples minds, is just the type of consensus work that we lojbo do well, and I want to see more of it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Indeed, the better writers can invent stories and worlds of their own, and characters as well. Others may choose to have their story rest in an interaction between patrons and staff in the coffeehouse, which itself is a basis for a lot of powerful story imagery, and, given some preparatory work in character development of the staff, allows people with perhaps less skill or imagination to still tell a reasonable story, concentrating on the Lojban and not on the creative work that not all of us do so well.&lt;br /&gt;
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The better writers can invent stories and worlds of their own, and characters as well. Others may choose to have their story rest in an interaction between patrons and staff in the coffeehouse, which itself is a basis for a lot of powerful story imagery, and, given some preparatory work in character development of the staff, allows people with perhaps less skill or imagination to still tell a reasonable story, concentrating on the Lojban and not on the creative work that not all of us do so well.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: There are many facets to creativeness. It is, of course, quite difficult to create truly flesh-and-blood characters. But telling about a person known to everybody may be equally difficult. To be consistent with the characterization without merely copying, to add something or just to express it somewhat differently takes skill at many levels. Actually, it might be much more difficult than making a quick sketch of a stranger or adding depth to some your own creation - even in your own native language. Fitting a limited expressiveness in Lojban to a detailed microcosm may be in fact harder than creating the details on the fly from the bits and pieces of the Lojban you do master.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brainstorming in English at a LogFest may give you quite a skewed view. There people are using the imagery of their native English to create the ckafyzda and everything flows smoothly. A detailed English plan is, however, a double-edged sword. It helps, as you said, people to visualize this microcosm. On the other hand people must get rid of this visualization not to be hampered by it (jumping from English - or Finnish or what so ever - to Lojban already requires a certain amount of flexibility of mind). It will also be quite necessary to transform the plan into a Lojban plan to help the less experienced Lojbanists to handle the basic premises. I used the word &#039;transform&#039; quite intentionally instead of the word &#039;translate&#039; as I feel that a translation isn&#039;t sufficient, it is quite necessary to try to remove the &#039;alien&#039; imagery. At another - simpler - level it is necessary to give the required lujvo and the ways of describing certain quite elementary things: distances, relationships, the way things hang together. It might be useful to have a kind of workshop (on the List) where the novice lojbo would be taught to navigate in this verbal VR (virtual reality). There might be teams of two or more people working on a person or even a table to get it just so.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (Nick: Because I have only vague suspicions about how this might work, I propose that we, as an example, navigate on [Lojban List] around, oh, the leftmost bench nearest the kitchen. I&#039;m not being facetious; I want to see how one would go about this. The tables are made of old soft oak, on which many symbols and inscriptions have been carved.) &lt;br /&gt;
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This kind of process might help people to find their own voice and to cultivate the innate creativity each one of us is sure to possess.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: And with what you (Veijo) say about characterisation, too, the solution is a broad-brush sketch that allows us room to maneuver in; not too detailed, not too vague. Well, that can certainly be handled.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think a Lojbanisation of the brush-stroke plan will not be limiting at all; people do really need that help in simply keeping a narrative going.&lt;br /&gt;
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As the mass of writers becomes more familiar with Lojban, the Cafe will be sketched out in greater detail in the story, and more successfully, with the end result possibly quite distant from what we&#039;d anticipated at the start. The more expert of us reinforce those less expert in the describing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: The plan is that there be 1 coffeehouse, and that the description be suitably refined in English. People will develop refined descriptions of 6 characters (or some other number if we abandon the 6 cultures idea - but I don&#039;t think you can have a &#039;cultureless person&#039; and have the character detail that I think the others want in the shared characters), which will then be voted on, which means the characters must also be defined in English.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (Nick: I think it&#039;s perfectly possible, but then, I think we&#039;re also looking for different things in character definition. What maketh a Hindi speaking character? I know personally 3 native Hindi speakers Now what do I extract from them to create, say, la jbosanjiv., and what am I missing by virtue of the fact that I talk with these people in English, within an Anglo culture? If these characters aren&#039;t assimilated into some medium we&#039;re familiar with (regrettably or not, this&#039;ll have to be a more or less Anglo cultural medium - leave the &amp;quot;or less&amp;quot; part to us na&#039;e glico) they&#039;ll be caricatures. And of course, as background, they don&#039;t have to be that detailed anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
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If we&#039;re to avoid a palace coup, sure, keep them Hindi and Arabic in name; but don&#039;t expect the character description to be too adamant about their cultural identity. Exoticising these people is unsatisfactory. They will be somewhat assimilated, into be it merko or jbomerko. This is nothing to be ashamed of. Talking about the Arab&#039;s fiery temperament or the Russian&#039;s cool intellect as cultural traits would be.)&lt;br /&gt;
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After we have the basic scenario settled, the material can be translated into Lojban, and people can set up teleconferences of whatever kind to help each other in writing, or whatever, but while the project is still in the formative stage, we must make provision for those who want to learn Lojban but haven&#039;t yet done so, and for those who do not have net access (which is 90% of the community).&lt;br /&gt;
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Be that as it may, I recognize that most of the work will be done by people on net, and we should take advantage of the opportunity for rapid communication. But please be considerate of those who want to participate but cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
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If people think they can develop interesting culture-free characters, I for one will await the first posted character description meeting the challenge.&lt;br /&gt;
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: (Nick: Cool. Veijo&#039;s navigation of virtual reality can be done once the description is in place, and the description should not be exhaustive.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: I certainly understand those of us who were at the LogFest and now feel that the net-people are trying to take over the whole Project utilizing their technological &#039;supremacy&#039;. On the other hand, we who are, due to external factors unsurmountable, unable to attend the LogFests and are limited to electronic contacts, which - though fast - cannot compete with face-to-face contacts and classes, feel left out of the initial phase of the Project.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually we were left a quite limited say in the formulation of the framework. The views I did present in my previous postings were ones I should have liked to present at the LogFest, I should have liked to have had my say at that time. Perhaps it would have made no difference in the outcome, but I should have felt differently. When I was writing the postings I recognized I was - at least to an extent - writing post facto. The writing was, however, necessary to find out just how much elbowroom I had. These postings (as quite many of my previous ones) must be taken with a pinch of salt. They are in a way a substitute for the process of thinking out loud in a class or a group working on a problem. The postings do contain errors and false starts which in a class would be corrected immediately. I am at least as much talking to myself as to others on the net - but the process only works if I do send the messages out.&lt;br /&gt;
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I do hope that the people who feel left out of all the fun we on the net do have would try - once in a while - to imagine themselves sitting a couple of thousand kilometers from the nearest active fellow lojbo and having only the messages on the screen and the inevitable problems caused by widely differing time zones - it&#039;s like being a semi-cyborg.&lt;br /&gt;
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I can imagine, on the other hand, the limitations of meeting others only, say, once a week and keeping all the ideas to yourself in the meantime and not hearing from the others or the goings-on (too few of us are still accustomed to writing real letters - and remembering the state of postal services to-day I guess it wouldn&#039;t much help). I can think of being without the List (shudder). Of course it is a slightly different matter for me here in the middle of a figurative nowhere. The blip of an arriving message envelope is also a symbol of the contact with you others.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: In this case the people in question who are not on-net live 250 miles from here and have no contact with any Lojbanists except at LogFest, and when JL comes out. We may all be in the same country over here, but that doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that we are close to each other. On the other hand, I see your point of view too. Your ideas will be presented to them, and the decision process will just take a little longer. I just wanted people to try to think of ways to keep everyone working towards the same goals, when some people are stuck with paper mail rates. This is not intended to stifle the lively and entertaining debate that has occurred.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t think that the people off net are necessarily locked into the 6 cultures idea. But they did sound very committed to the idea of these common characters being defined is considerable detail, in English, before people started to write in Lojban. The desire for detail and for English, as well as the clear desire for people to go beyond philosophy and into specific detailed descriptions of people and the coffeehouse itself, is what I was trying to urge.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was my idea, not theirs, that the best way to show Hindi culture is my having some Hindi-inspired Lojban stylistics, etc. I think the original people posing the idea were thinking more along the lines of having the chef of the day specialize in cooking foods of his/her native culture (for which we would need lots of lujvo and le&#039;avla in order to have the foods recognizable, if then). Thus I thought that stylistics of Lojban would be a more creative way to go, people will recognize the exoticness of the non-standard forms, and maybe even learn a little linguistics about the differences in the languages based on the Lojban forms. But I do not see that we have to go too extreme to bona fide culture, especially if people don&#039;t think they can pull it off.&lt;br /&gt;
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If people don&#039;t want to use the 6 culture labels, I suspect this will fly, but only if the characters are defined well enough that people writing feel they &#039;know&#039; the characters either fully, or in terms of any cultural features/stereotypes/whatever that would be most noticed by your everyday lojbo wandering in for a cup of coffee.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t think that there is a &#039;splintering&#039; between the non-netters and the netters. But my responsibility is to see that one doesn&#039;t come about. I fully feel Veijo&#039;s isolation in not being able to come to LogFest. But there are plenty of people in the U. S. who feel just as distant as you do, though they may be only 250 miles away instead of 8000.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: [On] the name of the Project: The Kalevala got to the name of the project more by way of accident than by volition. It is in a way quite fitting as the Kalevala (or the epic poems/songs on which it is based) was created by numerous anonymous people during several centuries. The &#039;-la&#039; at the end of the name corresponds roughly to the &#039;-ia&#039; of &#039;Lojbania&#039;. Most of the action, however, takes place outside this land/domain of Kaleva which actually remains quite vague and so, in a way, the name tells nothing of the contents - it just kind of sets the reference point. So I think we might as well replace &#039;The Kalevala&#039; with &#039;la jbotur.&#039; (lojbo tutra = the domain of Lojban) and call the project &#039;The Jbotur Project&#039; (le la jbotur. fitpla) or something like that (for the time being). Here I am thinking of tutra in quite a figurative sense, more as a mental territory/domain/sphere of influence than as a geographical territory. I also thought of various other possibilities but none were as concise or descriptive.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again a couple of figurative names:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la *jbolaz. ( &amp;lt; lojbo lanzu) = the people tied together by Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 la jbonat. ( &amp;lt; lojbo natmi) = the people with a Lojbanic cultural background&lt;br /&gt;
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I can&#039;t tell why I prefer &#039;jbo&#039; to &#039;loj&#039; in this context. Perhaps it gives the lujvo a certain distance from concreteness. Lojban is something quite concrete and &#039;la lojnat.&#039; would feel too near to &#039;Lojbanic nation&#039;. Theoretically, of course, there is no difference and the two are interchangeable. I&#039;ll leave it to others to decide whether these particular forms are preferable and whether these names are worth adoption to name the abstract entities in our writings. I think we have/will have the entities.&lt;br /&gt;
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: [Lojbab: &amp;quot;*jbolaz&amp;quot; is an invalid name, because it contains a syllable starting with &amp;quot;la&amp;quot;. However, it is permissible, and perhaps even more Lojbanic, to leave the name as a brivla &amp;quot;la jbolanzu&amp;quot;. brivla, of course, do not have the &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; restriction. Perhaps we should save name morphology for words Lojbanized from other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
: Another alternative that works is to use a different rafsi condensation that avoids the problem. In this case &amp;quot;la loblaz.&amp;quot; is legal because the &amp;quot;b&amp;quot; before the &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; prevents a morphology problem. This is a solution here, but won&#039;t always be possible, so I favor the selbri approach in general.&lt;br /&gt;
: Since there has been no agreement among the participants as to the name of the cafe, in editing this issue I have left all names, including this invalid one, as stated by the authors. Ideas for names are welcome from all of the community. &lt;br /&gt;
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==== C. The Cafe *Jbolaz Newsletter proposal ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Every two months, an electronic and snailmail [i.e regular postal mail] set of Cafe descriptions gets mailed out - this is necessary to allow the off-net participants to keep up to date. For net participants, a month after posting their cafe article on the net, they must submit a revision incorporating all comments made. For those off net, the newsletter editor forwards all comments (net and snail), allowing the contributor to post a revision, say, four months later. The newsletter is all-Lojban, and people (preferably on the net, and preferably grammar-competent) can take turns editing it. The newsletter is cafe only, other literature being forwarded as usual for JL consideration. Cafe articles need not be tales at all - any piece to do with the cafe (like Veijo&#039;s navigation or my Fraktur rant) is legit, as is any genre. If we all approve on this, the newsletter can be announced in JL. Some central on-net personage should be nominal editor (forwarding mail to the editor de jour who must commit him/herself to passing all articles through the current parser, and glossing lujvo as appropriate.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I see no problem with such a newsletter, but feel that it is appropriate after the getting started period of the first two issues of JL, which will serve to give more people a chance to decide to participate who are in the snailmail set.&lt;br /&gt;
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After the next two issues of JL, I suspect that there will be enough people motivated by the project and skilled enough at Lojban, that there will be more than just Nick and Veijo trying to write stuff that is appropriate, including some people not on net. When the non-netters feel comfortable in participating, then I personally will have no qualms in letting the project go where it will, including letting whatever leaders have emerged at that point assume both control and responsibility. I would hope of course that LLG would be offered first publication rights on the results, as well as to get as much archival data as possible on this, the first organized-and-skilled creative writing effort in what is obviously about to become a living language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: The original plan called for stories told at the Cafe. We have already had differences of opinion concerning background details. Now Nick is proposing that we widen the scope to include also other kinds of related literary works. (My srinuntroci or navigations as Nick calls them are just kind of etudes, not meant to be the stories, though widening the scope will make them eligible for publication.) In principle I am for this change of policy as it makes it possible also for the less advanced lojbo to participate in the creative process. It is much less demanding to produce a snapshot of a few lines than to produce something like Nick&#039;s Fraktur rant. We could have many more people contributing if this were an acceptable option. I think the non-netters would profit most from this change as longer stories do need more rounds of feedback from others.&lt;br /&gt;
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The question of the editorship and of a possible editorial board must be solved. Although technical reasons seem to indicate an on-net board, other possibilities must also be considered. The board might also be something quite informal. In practice we would have a wide open peer review system where in principle all the lojbo on the net would be doing the reviewing. For the netters this works fine but I think Nick&#039;s proposal concerning the non-netters would require some fine-tuning.&lt;br /&gt;
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This issue must be handled with the greatest sensitivity.&lt;br /&gt;
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The division of work between the board and the Lojban Central must be agreed on. There are technical questions like handling of the snailmail if the editors are mainly outside the USA (most of the non-netters are in the USA) and converting source text to text files suitable for e-mail.&lt;br /&gt;
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Last but not least are the financial questions. I think the ideal would be if we could find independent ways of funding the newsletter and the related editorial mail so that we don&#039;t strain the limited resources of the Central. We need some estimate of the volume of the mail and the circulation of the newsletter. This concerns mainly the section of the community which doesn&#039;t have net access. An option might be to circulate the newsletter as an appendix to JL.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: In creating a virtual world such as this, we must be afforded full freedom in our ways of exploring it, and full scope for Lojbanists of all interests and capabilities to work with it. Extended narrative is one alternative; others would not only be a relief from what could get a bit stodgy in Lojban, but would also help explore Lojban&#039;s capacities more. A catechism or an Encyclopedia reference (I know I&#039;ve got Joyce&#039;s Ulysses in mind here, but bear with me) are just as valid modes of expression, and just as helpful to the language. A fixed kind of narrative is unduly constrictive, and can discourage many would-be participants. In fact, I&#039;d be discouraged from producing a straightforward narrative.&lt;br /&gt;
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Plus, I think the opportunity of using this as a springboard for some satire of the Lojban movement is too good to pass up :)&lt;br /&gt;
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Certainly the editorship need not be formal. Let me attempt to refine my proposal: the editor du jour is entrusted with the typographic preparation of the journal, the style preferred in his/her number (namely, subjective minor issues of expression - lujvo phrasing, optional punctuation and spelling, minor grammatical errors - can be left to them). They also do the chasing up of correspondence and editing of discussions eventuating from articles published in their issue, adjusting the work accordingly and resubmitting it on the expiry date to the current editor for publication. What I&#039;m saying is that a given ed du jour is responsible for all articles first published by him. For example: suppose I, Mark, and Colin are eds du jour, and, oh, Nancy Lebovitz (say) submits an article that gets corrected and published during my editorship. I then, and not Mark, follow up any subsequent discussion and correspondence about Nancy&#039;s article, I make the suitable adjustments, and hand the finished result, and only the more interesting highlights of the discussion, to Colin (say) for republication. I suppose that means that my norms, rather than Colin&#039;s, go for the republished article; but at least work gets shared out that way.&lt;br /&gt;
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The reviewing of text is of course carried out by all subscribers to the newsletter, on net or off. But one person has to tie all the threads together at the end, and take responsibility for touching up the text in accordance with the criticisms made; let that person be the first publication&#039;s ed du jour.&lt;br /&gt;
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The editor in chief takes care of the editorial; his/her address appears in the newsletter as the address to which all correspondence is directed; has a certain amount of veto as to article content (checking for consistency and so forth), vetts the newsletter just before publication, and reports to the wider community through JL as needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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I see no reason why stories should not be mailed for submission and entered into text files directly by the editor in chief, who is after all just one address (if this is a forbidding responsibility for an ed in chief, um, I dunno, get the ed a scanner :) Of course, all these proposals are for when the project is off on its own two feet and running. For now, if I understand Lojbab&#039;s mail correctly, Lojban Central will still mediate.&lt;br /&gt;
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The LLG can have all the archival stuff it wants (and with editorship a net activity, there&#039;ll be plenty of it). I&#039;m not sure about publication rights though. I envisage a periodical publication, rather than a book-form corpus, that certainly is distributed by the LLG, and sold at a profit to the LLG, but which is produced by a decentralised body, which is not necessarily equivalent to the LLG.&lt;br /&gt;
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I suppose Lojbab&#039;s approach [on finances] will do. I dearly want a periodical publication out of this, not just a corpus of text to be dumped in Fairfax for people to order; but it is fair that the periodical be available by LLG&#039;s preorder (and if you preorder enough, by subscription). We&#039;ll ask for expressions of interest in the next JL. As for editorial mail... depending on volume, the eds as a committee may have to start pooling resources. Certainly we should use the net to make sure stuff gets snailmailed in the same quarter of the globe, at least; that&#039;ll be a big help. One article per newsletter in JL, but I&#039;d like the newsletter to eventually have some editorial independence (once again, that would be excellent PR).&lt;br /&gt;
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[As to who should be editor, it] basically boils down to who feels like being ed du jour (and handling a lot of grammar and correspondence), and who feels like ed in chief (who will have little grammar, but lots of correspondence, supervision, and consistency checking)? I still nominate Veijo for ed in chief; I&#039;ll go ed du jour, and we should have 3 to 5 such eds that we can divide work between; they need to have demonstrated Lojban competence, and that already narrows down the candidates to less than twenty.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab (originally private to Veijo): I haven&#039;t said so, and have been biting my tongue while all the discussion is going on. It sounds like the Lojban &amp;quot;creative writing&amp;quot; movement is about to take off on its own, and be more than mildly independent of &amp;quot;Lojban Central&amp;quot; with its own editor (perhaps you) and publication not much under my control. I think this is good because it shows the language can and will become free of me and of even the concept of a centralized &amp;quot;Central&amp;quot;. This also allows me to show that my attitude is entirely opposite from JCB, who when faced with anything like this immediately becomes extremely possessive and controlling. I will not display such an attitude, at all costs; our legitimacy as an organization and a project independent of JCB depends on it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still I have some misgivings, in that, honestly, most of the net postings, even in the final draft forms, have tended to be significantly flawed in lots of minor details of the language. The netters catch most things, but not everything, as in the example of your *tosmabru error in your first attempt. Nick is the most voluminous writer we have, and in many ways the best in that he has demonstrated a command of many idiosyncrasies of the language, but I have found that, even after he posts his 3rd or 4th revision he still has multitudinous little errors - things like failing to check the rafsi in a lujvo, errors of place structure, etc. He even has a copy of the parser, but he has told me that he merely checks to make sure that the text parses, and doesn&#039;t always check to make sure that it is parsing the way he intends it to be read. Thus, for example, you will find dozens of minor changes between his final posted version of Aesop, and the version I finally printed in JL. (And unfortunately Nick didn&#039;t agree with all my changes, but there wasn&#039;t time for him to respond before publication.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps you can see what my misgiving is, then. Will the proposed new publication have an editor who can and will check the language usage as thoroughly as it needs to be checked? How much authority will the editor have to correct and change misusages without getting author approval. (Nick may have accepted my changes because I am &#039;of Central&#039; whereas he might be less tolerant of others changing his stuff. But too much editorial/authorial dillying over individual pieces of work will lead to an editor who has to spend an excessive amount of time in correspondence over a relatively small amount of final text. The text being generated in the community now already exceeds what Cowan and I can read and perform such editorial checking on.&lt;br /&gt;
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And of course if the editor spends too much time editing, he/- she gets to spend little time writing his own stuff (a problem I personally have experienced). Thus, while Nick compliments you by asking you to be editor because you have a natural Lojbanic style, if you actually serve as editor, the community will be deprived of your developing and improving (rapidly) exemplification of such a good Lojban style.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t know what the solution is. I want this type of movement to get started, and I want it to succeed. But I worry that it is premature, in that no one, including myself, has the Lojban skill to be an editor of Lojban text, as such an editor needs to be given the present skill level among others in the community. Yet, how will such an editor develop, if no one takes the first step and tries.&lt;br /&gt;
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Your ideas on this convoluted problem are of interest to me. Please keep this between us for now, since, as I said, I don&#039;t want my doubts to stifle debate or the formation of a movement; I write to you, because I sense in your writings and activities of the last month or two that my comments are not going to discourage you. But others have proven very sensitive to this whole silly concept of a &amp;quot;Central&amp;quot; (which concept I wish had never evolved - I don&#039;t want to be a figure of authority).&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: Well, I think a &#039;Central&#039; can have a quite legitimate role - even in the long run. In Finland we have something called &#039;the language office&#039; which cannot enforce anything but follows the debates about the current usage, comments on it every now and then and is there to answer questions about the correct usage. Given the nature of Lojban I think we&#039;ll need a kind of clearing house for changes of grammar, place structures etc. to avoid anarchy before the language has stabilized. Also, I feel that a seal of approval on changes will help to avoid some of the endless and probably fruitless debates raging among the Esperantists. With people like you at the Institute I have no fear of an overtly stifling influence.&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not see the journal as something completely independent. It will, of course, have an independent editorial policy. It will, however, be a purely literary journal not containing any theoretical material - at least not in English, perhaps in the long run we&#039;ll have Lojban articles about stylistics, reviews etc. I think JL will remain the proper publishing channel for the linguistic questions arising on the basis of the submitted stories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Well, I think we&#039;ll never catch all the errors but probably we&#039;ll be better off than most natural language journals. I&#039;m modifying the editor program I&#039;m using presently (the one with hypertext capability) to do certain things. At the moment it has vocabulary and rafsi look-up capability (if only I&#039;d remember to use them always) and I intend to add lujvo checking next.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cf. Nick&#039;s posting: The main idea was that the workload would be divided between the ed in chief and the ed du jour. The ed in chief would write the editorial, define the profile of the journal and accept the stories for publication. The ed du jour would do the dirty work of preparing the stories for publication with all the associated fuss. Each issue might have a different ed du jour - the qualified people taking turns - so nobody would be prevented from writing etc. for a prolonged period of time.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is normal practice in journals that the ed in chief decides what gets published. If an author doesn&#039;t want to change his/her text to the extent that it&#039;ll pass the editorial board, the text doesn&#039;t get published. On the other hand the journal cannot publish something against the authors will. I think the journal ought to have a &#039;charter&#039; defining the aims, the editorial policy and the editorial procedures. All the reviewing would be public so we&#039;d have less fear of unfair treatment.&lt;br /&gt;
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Editing detracts from writing detracts from theoretical work detracts from studying detracts from ..., the never ending chain of choices. On the other hand, being forced to read what others have written and to really think about it will give you a better perspective on what you yourself are writing. None of us has a literary Lojbanic background and to find the language and refine our own writing we must try to explore as much of the text being written as possible. Nick&#039;s proposal would help a lot.&lt;br /&gt;
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Being set up as an example may be quite counterproductive. If you, every time you sit down to write, feel that you must be able to create something exemplary, it will - sooner or later - extinguish your creativity. You must be able to allow yourself the luxury of also producing mediocre or even poor text in order to be relaxed enough to produce something worth your while.&lt;br /&gt;
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At the moment the journal can only succeed as a collective effort, along the lines Nick has pointed out. I think his plan might work - with a few finishing touches. And I think we need the journal to give the community a further reason d&#039;etre as there are very few people who&#039;ll remain content to study a language which isn&#039;t actually used as a language. The main purpose of the journal would be to encourage people to write in Lojban, to start with simple things (I have even thought that good one-liners might be worth publishing) and gradually to proceed to more demanding forms of expression. After 5, maybe 10 years we might have another journal with more ambitious goals - if the language really takes off - but now we&#039;d be content just to have a journal - &#039;la jbotur po&#039;u le jbocfi karni pe lei ckafybarja lisri&#039; or what ever it would be called.&lt;br /&gt;
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The way I see it, we aren&#039;t in any particular hurry. First we must present the idea in JL and poll the opinions of the community. If the response is positive, the real work would start, say, in January and we ought to have the material for the first issue prepared by the end of March. I think we&#039;ll have enough material by then and ample time for the editing (at the present rate we&#039;ll have lots of material even before the end of the year). Preparing this first issue will give us enough experience to define the schedule for the later issues realistically.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Veijo&#039;s times in this paragraph were undoubtedly predicated on the assumption that JL would be on schedule, which it has not been, and that the volume of text that was written in August would continue at that rate, which it also has not.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I agree that having to be exemplary stifle creativity and productivity. Why do you think I don&#039;t wish my job on anyone else? It is a real bear being thought of as the ultimate authority, and having little errors from years ago held up as sanctified rulings. That is why I find &amp;quot;Central&amp;quot; a distressing concept, since &#039;Central&#039; like the Pope, is never wrong and must always be right. And I am not infallible. First among equals is fine, and indeed you-all who are most active on Lojban List tend to think of me this way. But the masses that are not as active consider me much more of an Authority.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: I know and I certainly do not envy your position. (It&#039;s funny, I was actually considering the phrase &#039;primus inter pares&#039; in some context in my previous letter but then decided to avoid it as it is sometimes also used to mean &#039;first among &amp;quot;equals&amp;quot;&#039;.) Many - if not most - people have a need for an authority and this ought to be taken into account. I think we&#039;ll have to consider the role and nature of the &#039;Central&#039; in the future. The way I see it now, we should have a group of experienced Lojbanists (6-12), geographically dispersed, in contact with each other outside the Lojban list. This group would, among other duties, work like the &#039;language office&#039;. I mentioned giving out statements either as individuals or as a collective. These statements would contain a standard attachment declaring that the statement a) is based on the current parser and/or word list and as such is &amp;quot;objective&amp;quot; or b) is a considered opinion of so and so and as such doesn&#039;t constitute an absolute ruling/truth but a recommendation. The main idea is that there would a body to which you could address your questions and have reasonable expectations of getting a correct or at least thoroughly considered answer. Of course you can ask questions on the net but then you may get a multitude of answers from which you must choose or get a single answer from somebody who just thinks he knows - the question and the answer having passed unnoticed by those who would be better qualified to answer - or even no answer at all. But how to avoid the halo of Authority, that is the question.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Lojbab: Which leads me to mention the thing I was talking to Nick about [see below for this text]. One problem I&#039;ve never seen a solution for is how to communicate with those just short of trying to use the language. You have noticed how little Sylvia and Dave post, and there are several others that could probably post good stuff too, but they:&lt;br /&gt;
: a) don&#039;t try because the debates that ensue are intimidating;&lt;br /&gt;
: b) don&#039;t try because they see this enormous volume of debate on each discussion, and put all their effort into trying to understand it, not always with useful effect. &lt;br /&gt;
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I think that the tons of stuff on the coffee house has probably intimidated some people from speaking up, simply because the leadership is going at it so fast and furious.&lt;br /&gt;
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And while I am happy to see yours and Nick&#039;s attempts at supporting text in Lojban, they 1) set a standard few feel that they can match, so they don&#039;t try and 2) because they are in Lojban, people have to spend the time needed to read and understand (if possible) what has been written to make sure that what they write is consistent with what has gone before. The latter is the reason that I was urging people to keep to English for the most part during the project formation phase. Nick did give an English translation, though colloquial. You didn&#039;t, at least that I noticed. The newcomer right now probably hasn&#039;t got a clue what is going on, and what if anything has been determined/decided about the project, and what details if any have been added since the initial posting. The latter is why Karen wanted people to write rather lengthy English supporting text - so that people know about what they are writing before they start, and get to save their creativity for the stories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: Perhaps I ought to post an explanation of what I&#039;m trying to accomplish with my little stories. There is a qualitative difference between my two little etudes and Nick&#039;s rant. Nick&#039;s story needs the translation as it adds details to the original English description, my two published stories, on the other hand, actually add nothing to it, so it isn&#039;t so essential to understand them.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I&#039;d like to show to just the people who&#039;d like to post something but feel they aren&#039;t advanced enough, is that it is possible to take a small detail (the smell of coffee, an inscribed letteral) and develop a few bridi concerning it. The story may be quite banal, the main thing is to write something in Lojban - preferably without an original in any natural language. My Lojban isn&#039;t so advanced that I could take an extended passage from the English description and transcribe it into real Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is why I wasn&#039;t so concerned about invention - it&#039;s no good if I invent a clever story or a detailed description but lack the means of expressing it in Lojban. First I must develop a familiarity with the language - writing little banal first-grader stories if need be. The way I work maybe the reason for the hint of lojbo style in the stories. It&#039;s like putting together a puzzle or playing a game of Go. I pick a key piece - an observative, a selbri, a sumti, an attitudinal or maybe a complete bridi from Nick&#039;s rant - put it on the board and start attaching other pieces around it. The story/paragraph is like an extended bridi with places to fill - only the places aren&#039;t predefined but change all the time I&#039;m developing the story. So it isn&#039;t a linear process where I&#039;d have an idea and just started from the beginning - I can&#039;t sustain that yet. This way I can add just the kind of pieces I can manage - or change my mind halfway through if the going gets too rough.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are still waiting reactions to the views I presented concerning the handling of the subject, we have this new idea of starting a newsletter and the related ideas concerning the subject material and, of course, the additions to the English supporting text by Nick and some other people. The adoption of the supporting text will be a problem. It seems to me we are going to need an editor just to select and unify the accumulating material. Some of Nick&#039;s material is fine as a literary work but hardly stuff to encourage an apprentice to base a story upon. You know my views and misgivings about this approach and there is no need to reiterate, I guess. I know my limits and I have found a way to cope - at least at this stage.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &#039;etudes&#039; I&#039;m writing now do not - or not exactly - fit within the original framework and perhaps it was an error to post them without comments to that effect though at the time I was writing the first one I felt it was better to avoid comments which might be misinterpreted by the non-netters as we still don&#039;t have their reactions to the views I had presented earlier.&lt;br /&gt;
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For me these etudes are a way to learn, to study, and comparable to any other stuff people are posting. If we keep to the original plan they are my way of preparing for the project proper, if we, on the other hand, decide to start the newsletter and change the scope of the material the way I have outlined, they may be eligible for publication.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab (originally private to Nick): I suspect that you won&#039;t see any of the inactive people contributing to the coffeehouse for a while. That effort is doing stunningly well, and has taken on a life of its own independent of &amp;quot;Central&amp;quot; (thank God, since I abhor the concept of a Lojban &#039;Central&#039; in the first place). But it is suffering from the same problem that has afflicted almost all previous discussions of Lojban text on net. Some few people, in this case apparently you, Veijo, Ivan, Mark, and Colin, are churning out so much text and commentary on text that the others with less time or less confidence cannot be other-than lurkers, because they cannot read what has been written as fast as new stuff is produced. I doubt that you will see much from Sylvia, and you might even see less simply because everyone else is writing more. I printed out your latest &#039;rant&#039;, and we will be going over it in Tuesday-night group next Tuesday, but Veijo&#039;s much shorter text was all that we covered last Tuesday, so I suspect they may be working on your text for a few weeks. When we read Lojban texts here, every single word and every single rafsi is looked up, and thus even if you-and-others never made mistakes in these areas, this makes for very slow progress. (Nobody here has any confidence in our ability to read texts in Lojban as opposed to in literal English translation, which in my case I can do in my head. I have long gotten the impression that those of you who pour out commentary on each others texts at high volume and at rapid response rates are doing something quite different than we do when we read these texts, possibly something much better than what we do. Indeed, I find that while I can translate quickly in my head, even the smallest grammatical or rafsi error brings me to a complete halt because I have no error recovery capability - I have to stop and do a detailed word-for-word translation to try to figure out what the speaker was trying to say in English before I can hope to figure out what the Lojban &#039;should have been&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure what the solution to all this is. It is great to see all of this on-line volume, and people seem to be signing up to start learning more actively in the last two weeks since this effort has come to life. But you need to know that those of lower confidence or skill are unlikely to contribute for a while, and I&#039;m not sure I have any ideas how to remedy the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I still don&#039;t know what we can do with beginners. I do note two things, however: there are beginners out there with enthusiasm, who don&#039;t blanche at the sight of Lojban sentences (Dryad, for example, saying &amp;quot;if I don&#039;t understand a sentence, I&#039;ll let you know); and I&#039;d count Andrew Smith and Veijo Vilva amongst the beginners, the only difference being that they have applied themselves to the language. It takes little more than a month to turn from a lurker to a text-writer; barely three to become a Jimbob, given the right background. As for incentive, the Cafe is a great idea, allowing oodles of scope, and if it doesn&#039;t get people writing, nothing will.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: With regard to the enthusiasm of beginners, I think that there are two or three kinds. Some are inspired by seeing the quantity of text, others are intimidated. I am opposed to the opening up of the coffee house project to &#039;anything goes&#039;, because the worst problem we have around here in getting people to write is that we basically here are not creative writers - we need to be given a subject to write about - an anchor to build a ship around. I can urge all that I want, but the more wide open the subject matter is, the more people here get writer&#039;s block because there are too many options and too little creativity - so they go back to translation. If indeed there has been such an opening up of the project, as I understand what you write, those who proposed it may take it back and make a smaller, more restricted sub-project that they are comfortable with, because otherwise they won&#039;t write anything. (You will recall from my original posting that Karen Stein, who really took charge here at LogFest on this thing was adamant about the need to fully define the coffeehouse setting and the common characters in English so that everyone understood the common ground before they started to write. She is a creative writer, but she said that she could not write the kind of stories she wants without having this firm structure to build off of - at least not if she wanted to end up with anything that would tie in to what anyone else decided to write. And the group-ness of the enterprise was clearly the thing that excited her about it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the &#039;who is writing&#039; question - the people here are totally overwhelmed even by the two pieces of text that have been posted. People here feel the need to digest word-for-word everything that gets written before responding to it. Both Cowan and I, arguably among the most skilled in the language, especially technically, no longer even bother to try to read Lojban text that is posted. It takes too much work; we file it away under the &#039;someday ...&#039; file, whereupon I eventually pull some of it out when I go to produce a JL issue; Cowan has never done so at all. I suspect that the rest of us here in DC are the same way. We can converse in the language comfortably (that is Nora, Sylvia and I), but we do so by not using lujvo unless the place structures and the rafsi-meanings are rather obvious from the context, because though I can make lujvo in my head, the others have to stop and look them up, which kills conversation. Thus your rather more literary style is an effort to read - we have to check everything thoroughly before we have any idea what you are saying. Since you and others who post to the net are predominantly writers rather than speakers of the language, this stylistic difference is rather difficult at the moment to overcome - you are used to taking the time to analyze stuff on-line that we cannot and do not do. By comparison, I suspect it will take us 2 weeks merely to go through your latest text and understand it as Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Part of the effect of our different styles of language use is that people who do all their work on-net are tolerant of different types of errors than us conversationalists. I find that your errors caused by not looking up rafsi and gismu bring me to a complete halt, because I cannot error-correct those type of errors quickly. Yet people seem to read and respond to your stuff with comments at a variety of levels quite quickly compared to what we manage here. They seem to concentrate on tanru and lujvo, and kind of absorb the grammar in passing having figured out the meaning by correlating the tanru into a gestalt meaning that dominates the sentence. Meanwhile, we get stuck on the missing &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; that leads to total nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of this is that if Cowan and Lojbab can be intimidated out of trying to read your stuff, that should tell you something about what happens to David Young, with a gismu vocabulary of 100 after a long summer of LogFlash, and Guy Garnett, who is still stuck at around the 50 level, and has to look up virtually every gismu even after the whole summer of classes. People here, being grossly mono-lingual, get really stuck on lack of vocabulary. Until we get people up to a comfortable vocabulary level, no one will write anything, and people will tend to avoid even trying to read things.&lt;br /&gt;
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But keep things going. It may not be what people had in mind, but things in Lojban are finally taking on a life of their own, which is the important thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Text and comments elucidating further description of Scenario #2 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translations, where they exist, and commentaries on the language aspects of the Lojban writings will be found in the translations section. A computer-generated English gloss of Veijo&#039;s two writings will also be found there. No proper English translation exists for either Veijo&#039;s writings or Iain&#039;s second writing.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo&#039;s original text, mentioned several times above, was the first attempt to add to the initial description #2 provided as a starting point. Veijo&#039;s commentary above indicated that he feels that his text adds no new information to the coffee house description. On the other hand, his attempt to do a simple Lojban writing based on that description may provide some indication of how people will use the descriptions provided. Furthermore, Nick and Iain&#039;s writings below reference back to things Veijo says in this piece.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le la vei,on ckafybarja srinuntroci xipa xici&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o sriku&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ckafybarja&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi zvati le vorstu gi&#039;e terpanci loi ckafi da.uicai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi ca ze&#039;upunai.oi sumne da&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi dzukla le jbustu gi&#039;e ctacarna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i rancindu jubme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i seldandu lo vrici to&#039;erninda&#039;i noi mi na djuno zo&#039;e ke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i selzvati ji&#039;ipano zutse remna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i srotanxe loi ckafi lei mudri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i vrici&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi visyfacki fi pa lo poi loi remna na zutlamji ke&#039;a ku&#039;o jubme goi ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi co&#039;a zutlamji ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;a lamji le nunjupca&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le jukpa cu selviska gi&#039;e jupfinti de.a&#039;ucu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi pensi.a&#039;e loi selpinxe co ckafi.au&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ckafypanci fi mi.ui&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ckafypanci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .ui.o&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i sriku&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: Vilva arrives in the ckafyzda. Finally! It&#039;s such a good navigation too, I feel guilty for proceeding to propose some fleshing out of the scenery in English. And of course, the Lojbanisations of our English specs should not be translations, but transformations, as Veijo has rightly pointed out. Here goes [italicized text is from Description #2]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I walked under the crossed climbing axes, and into the coffeehouse, I felt I was in a place designed to give one the feeling of putting on an old comfortable pair of shoes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo speaks of &amp;quot;.ui.o&#039;u&amp;quot;; that&#039;s the feeling I want in the cafe too. A boisterous place, sure, with lots of emphasis on the &amp;quot;ka vrici&amp;quot;, but also a very &amp;quot;mela&#039;ezo.i&#039;u&amp;quot; place. The door is nothing too fancy; plain, wooden, touch heavy, not pretentious. The climbing axes certainly have been positioned informally (maybe even not perfectly symmetrically?)&lt;br /&gt;
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The benches were made of old soft oak, in which many tales and symbols had been carved. On the bench I was seated was the inscription: &amp;quot;Members of the first sandpit expedition to find the first digger, or traces thereof - 198?&amp;quot; The table also bore other marks of former patrons who had drank their selections and transcribed their feelings with pitons.&lt;br /&gt;
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What with the suggested rural setting and the benches, I&#039;m put in mind of soft damp oak, and murky late afternoon light. I don&#039;t think the place need be spotlighted, in any case; the can&#039;t-look-outside windows will do. There&#039;s not just tales and symbols, of course; there&#039;s a lot of good old fashioned graffiti (no need to be too solemn about it.) The place is, I suggest, small and intimate, with the &amp;quot;vrici&amp;quot; paraphernalia on the walls haphazard and competing for space, rather than formally set out, museum style. No more than ten benches (reasonably sized, though).&lt;br /&gt;
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The walls were littered with climbing apparel and debris in what might charitably have been termed a collage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See? I visualised correctly :) And some of the parts of the collage are downright incongruous. I would not be surprised, for example, if a certain pea on a cushion lies in a corner, with some inscription to do with a Kunstkammer. Several postcards, too (I don&#039;t think this is being too explicitly outside-world-bound), from Cafe Cairo, The Loglan Sogrun, Burnley F.A...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were the rusting remains of pitons and hooks abutting practically new lengths of the latest high test rope. Opposite the door from which I had entered was a ladder - a climbing ladder, of course. The ladder reached to the ceiling, and a solid-looking trap door that made me wonder of the unknown relics that lay beyond, and the stories they might hold.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ladder stays, but it has nothing to do with &amp;quot;le lisri be le serti&amp;quot;; an imposing marble staircase would be a touch too imposing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Underneath these visible artifacts were the dour reminders of the primary business of this establishment-coffee. There were full wooden bins of coffee from just about every place in the world, with or without caffeine. The cook was visible to all and in the process of developing the latest creation on the current menu, and not without some debate about the amount of spice the particular dish required.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The menu is on display just to the right of the partition behind which the cook is visible; handwritten, with the le&#039;avla defined at the bottom of the list in the six source languages. The coffee bins are along the walls, I take it? (Beneath the artifacts.) The waiter does some serving, but for the most part sits with the customers and socialises. The cook has most of his/her arguments with the dishwasher, sometimes carrying the arguments outside the kitchen and asking for support in his debates amongst hapless customers, slapstick-style (hm, I&#039;m going against the rotation thing - others may countersupport it); I don&#039;t know what a busboy is either; and the Manager (and the sixth man/woman out for the night) sit together and overlook the scene. I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s worthwhile giving the Manager his/her own table, and a small table rather than a bench at that; but I would like the Manager to be a bit more formal than the rest, a voice of authority amidst the chaos, and somewhat set apart - a big gun in a story, held in reserve.&lt;br /&gt;
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This might be a biiiiit silly, but maybe a small bookcase of NL dictionaries and Lojban references on the side? And the cafe, I thiiiiink, should be a bit of a bastion of lojbanism, or at least lojbanism-aware - which would give us the opportunity of satirising traits of the current or future community in it. The visitors, of course, don&#039;t have to particularly like or think about Lojban - it&#039;s by no means an exclusive venue.&lt;br /&gt;
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This happy riot provided the counterpoint to the hissing, and boiling of a near endless stream of coffee beans in response to the always cold, often frustrated, and very determined clientele. . .&lt;br /&gt;
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Damn! I knew they were cold and damp! :)&lt;br /&gt;
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OK. If you all don&#039;t blow up at this, we can go navigating some more...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo, on the coffee bins, wrote: &amp;quot;.i patxu loi ckafi lei mudri&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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: Colin: Why &amp;quot;lei mudri&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: Veijo: I&#039;d say they are wooden but can&#039;t be sure these days. (The coffee? :)&lt;br /&gt;
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Colin: I don&#039;t get Veijo&#039;s answer to my question here, so probably he didn&#039;t understand my question. I was querying &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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: Veijo: I tried to use &#039;the mass described ...&#039; instead &#039;the mass really is ...&#039; to express concisely the idea that the bins looked like wood but might be something else on closer inspection.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark on &#039;ckafyzda&#039;: Veijo in [an early version of] his first text used: &amp;quot;ni&#039;o zdani&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I might have thought &amp;quot;dinju&amp;quot; would be a better choice. &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot; implies some sort of dwelling-place, and you&#039;re leading into this with these observatives as &amp;quot;A house. A coffee-house...&amp;quot;, where habitation isn&#039;t implied. For that matter, is &amp;quot;ckafyzda&amp;quot; malglico? It expands to &amp;quot;ckafi zdani&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;coffee-ish nest/house/- bivouac/dwelling-place&amp;quot;. Most coffeehouses aren&#039;t inhabited by anyone, they&#039;re solely places of business. &amp;quot;ckafyzarci&amp;quot; implies a more of a store where you buy coffee beans to me, so that&#039;s no better, and &amp;quot;ckafybriju&amp;quot; is right out. Aha! &amp;quot;ckafybarja&amp;quot;! That&#039;s really much better, I think. &amp;quot;barja&amp;quot; even has a place for what&#039;s served, which is filled, in the lujvo/tanru, by &amp;quot;ckafi&amp;quot; (though other things may be served as well). I think this is an important change to make, even if &amp;quot;ckafyzda&amp;quot; has acquired some sacredness. It&#039;s only a week or two old, and it&#039;s broken. Please let us switch to &amp;quot;ckafybarja&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo replies: In this case I definitely wanted the connotation of dwelling or even home-coming. I was thinking along the lines of a cafe where people are not perhaps quite dwelling but spending a lot of time telling stories and having conversations. At least in some parts of Europe cafes (especially student cafes) and like are almost a second home to some people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also implied was a cultural dwelling place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ckafybarja&amp;quot; is better as a general lujvo (and corresponds to usage in some languages, e.g. Finnish before American English domination) but...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is nothing sacred about &amp;quot;ckafyzda&amp;quot; but it may match the underlying ideas much better. If we are stacking the place with connotative paraphernalia we may as well tack on a few more connotations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark responds: Sorry, I&#039;m unconvinced. You say you&#039;re trying to get warm fuzzy feelings of homecoming by using &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t have that meaning either. The lair of a dragon is a &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot;. A beehive is a &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;place of residence/habitation of....&amp;quot;, not implying any hominess nor lack thereof. Even if the manager chances to live in the place, (and thus it may be proper to describe it as a &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot; incidentally), what we are describing the place as is a tavern or bar or other sort of informal restaurant wherein coffee is served. That is, &amp;quot;le barja zo&#039;e loi ckafi&amp;quot; -&amp;gt; &amp;quot;le ckafi barja&amp;quot; -&amp;gt; &amp;quot;le ckafy-barja&amp;quot;. Now, the proprietor(s) of the place, perhaps, might try naming it &amp;quot;la ckafyzda&amp;quot; (note the article), as that would be a tolerable name for such a place, but as a description, it doesn&#039;t wash. I don&#039;t care how much time people spend there: call it what it is - &amp;quot;lo barja&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Connotations are fine in describing the place, in the objects you put in there, etc., but if you call something by what it isn&#039;t, people won&#039;t know what you&#039;re talking about. &amp;quot;ckafyzda&amp;quot; would imply maybe the home of a coffee grower (rotten lujvo for it, though), or a coffee-colored house (also not so great), or a place where coffee lives (decent lujvo) - yes, that&#039;s probably the most likely interpretation. Just as &amp;quot;remzda&amp;quot; is used to mean &amp;quot;house&amp;quot; (i.e. typical habitation of human beings - some cultural bias there, no?), &amp;quot;ckafyzda&amp;quot; seems to conjure up some kind of habitation for coffee (as if it were a living being). Maybe those big burlap sacks that coffee beans are kept in, or a cannister on your shelf. In either case, the word would be very poetic, but more for its implication that coffee &amp;quot;lives&amp;quot; anywhere than for connotations of hominess on &amp;quot;zdani&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo to Colin about the coffee:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not too keen a coffee drinker. The smell came in kind of naturally with the coffee bins and all, perhaps childhood memories of freshly ground coffee at my aunt&#039;s shop where I used to hang a lot. If the specs had called for a taverna I&#039;d have thought of something else to fill the first 10 seconds. The sense of smell carries a lot of connotations and brings fore memories... The smell of pezyckafi is the first reminder telling you that you have come (back) to where you belong. You can&#039;t put your finger on it during the first few moments but it hits you, sometimes like a sledgehammer. The visual recognition comes later and the images of times long past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo to Mark about coffee and tea: Used to be a tea-drinker myself but Finland is one of heaviest coffee drinking countries in the world and getting a decent brew of tea turned out to be too much of an effort in the long run so I gave up around the age of 25 and started drinking coffee. I still enjoy properly brewed decent teas, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now about &amp;quot;loi selpinxe ckafi&amp;quot;. Does it bring to mind the beverage or the coffee beans/powder the beverage is made of? I had the beverage in mind and I want to have the gismu &amp;quot;ckafi&amp;quot; in a position where I can tack the attitudinal on it. Well, now I have it: &amp;quot;loi selpinxe co ckafi.au&amp;quot;. What do you think? Better? Or was it you just couldn&#039;t imagine someone thinking more the beverage than the actual act of drinking? Many a time have I been sitting and enjoying the fragrant smell of tea, this being an essential part of the total enjoyment when the tea isn&#039;t just something nondescript. Same goes for coffee. There are brews and BREWS. And think of the Japanese tea ceremony, to take an extreme example. In the ceremony the act of drinking is really almost superfluous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick was next to enter the coffee house [A free translation of Nick&#039;s text will be found on page 60]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi se lidne la vei,on. ba&#039;acu&#039;i lenu nerkla le la loblaz. kafybarja .i mi sutra joiku&#039;i.o&#039;a banli cadzu pa&#039;o la&#039;ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau .i lenu mi pu kargau le vorme cu mlirocnandu gi&#039;e sacri&#039;a lenu mi catke .i le te vorme cu se gusni lo lecydo&#039;i&amp;lt;ref name=ze /&amp;gt; milxe gi&#039;e se kufra cmalu .i panomei sa&#039;enai.a&#039;acu&#039;i loi jubme .i mi zutse ne&#039;a lo na&#039;e se tsejbi jubme {poi diklo le kumfa kojna gi&#039;e stula&#039;i le vorme ku&#039;o} gi&#039;e catlu loi zvapre .iza&#039;a la vei,on. zutse vi le ragve kojna gi&#039;enaipe&#039;i zvaju&#039;o mi .i ra zanfri .i&#039;e.o&#039;enai loi panci be loi vi ckafi .i mi zmanei loi tcati gi&#039;e.o&#039;o.aucu&#039;i denpa lenu lo djabe&#039;ipre cu jundi mi .i milxe savru gi&#039;e ruble nungei .iku&#039;i mi cabdei me ®lu .i&#039;inai li&#039;u¯ vau.u&#039;uru&#039;ero&#039;a .i lei bitmu cu se jadni loi carmi bo vrici joi na&#039;e simlanxe be ja&#039;i le tcaci .i le re cpare ka&#039;amru poi simkruca se punji fi le cravro gapru na minrysarxe .u&#039;iru&#039;e .i na go&#039;i fa loi drata ke bitmu se punji ne mu&#039;u lo dembi poi vreta lo kicne ku&#039;o jo&#039;u lo slabu tcityta&#039;o ne secu&#039;u ®lu vi xagrai loi tauzba pe levi tcadu li&#039;u¯ ge&#039;ujo&#039;u lo befydai noi te ciska zo sindereluud. .i mi ca jundi le jbusfe pe mi .i te ciska so&#039;ida ne bau la lojban. e la bangrnesperanto .e le glibau .e.ueru&#039;e le dotco .i le dotco cu se ciska ta&#039;i la fraktur .i mi xebni la fraktur .i mi djica {lenu ciska fi le jbusfe fe ®lu mi la fraktur xebni mi&#039;e kilrois. li&#039;u¯ kei} gi&#039;enai ca ponse lo ve ciska befi loi mudri .i mi ka&#039;e lebna lo cpare ja bisli kilmru le zunle bitmu .i mi co&#039;i morji le xajmi pe lei bisli kilmru jgari relcisyge&#039;upre .iku&#039;i lenu le xajmi cu jboselsku na se snada mi .isemu&#039;ibo mi pensi sanga le se finti be la suZAN.vegas. be&#039;o pe me&#039;e ®lu le la tom. gusta li&#039;u¯ .i lenu go&#039;i cu se dicra lenu lo djabe&#039;ipre noi .uacu&#039;i xindo cu klama mi gi&#039;e cisma bacru ®lu cticpe ?ma doi lojbo ga&#039;icu&#039;i li&#039;u¯ .i mi co&#039;a se spaji catlu le be&#039;ipre .i mi nelci le be&#039;ipre .i mi mutce nelci co se trina le be&#039;ipre ja&#039;e lenu mi na spuda ri .iseki&#039;ubo ri cmila joiku&#039;i milxe bo se fanza bacru ®lu be&#039;ebe&#039;e xaupre zo&#039;o ctidji ja pixydji ?ma li&#039;u¯ .i mi spuda bacru ®lu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
je&#039;eki&#039;e pendo .u&#039;u si ba&#039;edo&#039;u.u&#039;u .u&#039;ise&#039;i go&#039;i lo tcati li&#039;u¯ .i le be&#039;ipre goi ko&#039;a cu bacru ®lu go&#039;i lo tcati pe le&#039;a ?ma li&#039;u¯ .i mi ®lu .aicu&#039;i do ?ma stidi li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a ®lu .e&#039;a la kukytcat. noi vi purlamrai terve&#039;u li&#039;u¯ .i mi ®lu .i&#039;e ko bevri le la kukytcat. tcati li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a bacru ®lu baziba&#039;o go&#039;i .oinai li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;e cliva mu&#039;i lenu bevri nagi&#039;e tavla lo drata zutse .ipujecabo lu&#039;i le jukpa kuce le patlu&#039;i lu&#039;u nevi le jupku&#039;a cu cladu joi selzdi dabysnu .i le jukpa cu so&#039;uroi batkla gi&#039;e te jivrei le se casnu fo lei zvati .i.aucai mi na ve preti .i le barjyjatna noi dasni lo jikri&#039;i taurgunma ca tavla la vei,on. .i mi xance rinsa la vei,on. i ko&#039;a spuda rinsa gi&#039;e nupre lenu bazi kansa mi kei mi .i loi cnino cu nerkla gi&#039;e cladu rinsa loi no&#039;e cnino noi na&#039;oca&#039;o te lisri .i mi na .ai cabdei ve lisri .i mi .e&#039;icu&#039;i cabdei xebni la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ze&amp;gt;Lojbab: Nick kind of jumped the gun, using the rafsi &amp;quot;do&#039;i&amp;quot; for the new gismu &amp;quot;donri&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;) prior to either being announced publicly or appearing in any lists that people can look up.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo followed up with a second text, in part reacting to Nick&#039;s effort. This may show the type of interaction between characters of different writers that may be possible, even if no one goes so far as to initiate a direct dialogue between the characters (a possibility that Nick comments on afterwards) [See page 58 for a computer generated gloss]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le la vei,on ckafybarja srinuntroci xire xire&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi penzutse.o&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i to&#039;erninda&#039;i fa lemi jubme&lt;br /&gt;
.i ciska da le jbusfe .ije mi catlu da.a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i lerfu la fraktur.ue&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi morji fi loi lerfu be la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
.i morji&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi puzuki zvati le ckule gi&#039;e caca&#039;a tcidu&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tcidu le cfika be le ze bruna bei la Aleksis.kivis. &lt;br /&gt;
   po&#039;u le natmytercfi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le poi le drata be mi cu tcidu fi ke&#039;a ku&#039;o selpapri cu te prina loi lerfu be la antik.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lemi selpapri goi ko&#039;a te prina loi lerfu be la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lenu tcidu de pe ta&#039;i la fraktur. kei pu nandu mi gi&#039;e ca frili&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi djica lenu tcidu fi ko&#039;a kei mu&#039;i lenu lemi patfu &lt;br /&gt;
   puzu prina loi lerfu loi ko&#039;a papri&lt;br /&gt;
.i lemi patfu ze&#039;u prina&lt;br /&gt;
.i lenu ri go&#039;i kei nanca li vobi&lt;br /&gt;
.i kiku mi catlu le vi lerfu be la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lerfu&lt;br /&gt;
.i bacru.ue zo coi&lt;br /&gt;
.i barjyjatna.a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
.i la nitcion. co&#039;ava se zvaju&#039;o mi&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra xance rinsa mi .ije mi spuda rinsa&lt;br /&gt;
.i la nitcion. caca&#039;a xebni la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick comments: There&#039;s going to be a good tale, I think, in an old-timer at the cafe explaining how the devil the Fraktur got there in the first place...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I feel veeery hesitant in any interaction with the staff with their personas still not settled. If people don&#039;t like the Manager (and &amp;quot;jatna&amp;quot; does seem to be the only word we have for &amp;quot;boss&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;manager&amp;quot;) being imperious, they&#039;ll be very unhappy if I portray him like that. So for now, let&#039;s not probe into the background characters too deeply.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The even greater danger is in sketching interactions with Real Life people. Veijo and I are about to start talking, and I&#039;d like neither of us to make potentially annoying presumptions about the other&#039;s persona. So one should be wary in this kind of thing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Iain then joined in with the following [a rough translation of the Lojban will be found on page 63]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la jbolanzu kafybarja&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
®lu .ie.a&#039;a .ie.o&#039;onairu&#039;e (cu&#039;usa&#039;a mi noi caki vilkla zo&#039;a le vorme fi&#039;o te mlixra le janco ku&#039;o) sera&#039;a ?ma pezyjicla li&#039;u¯ .i mi vi le zdani pu zutse co cando .icabo mi terbei lo notci poi ve cusku le se du&#039;u lu&#039;o la vei,on. joi la nitcion. lu&#039;u goi ko&#039;a noi zvati le kafybarja po&#039;u la *jbolaz. cu djica lenu penmi mi vi ra .i ®lu ?ma ?mo li&#039;u¯ na se spuda .i ko&#039;a jundi casnu la fraktur. .i mi zo&#039;u la fraktur. no&#039;e cinri .i mi co&#039;a zutse ne&#039;a lo jubme poi lamji le me ko&#039;a ku&#039;o gi&#039;e denpa lenu se zvaju&#039;o da no&#039;u ga ko&#039;a gi lo selfu noida&#039;i bevri loi ckafi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi jubme cu xekri seja&#039;e loni to&#039;ercitno .i ra ve srakysku zo mi ce&#039;o prami bu ce&#039;o ®lu le cmacrnalgebra li&#039;u¯ .i mi nelci le jubme .i mi de&#039;a morji fi la vei,on. .e la nitcion. gi&#039;e co&#039;a pensi .i mi si&#039;a se cinri so&#039;a klesi be lo sinxa ciste ra&#039;anai ledu&#039;u vo&#039;e ge&#039;ikau te javni mu&#039;u le sucta cmacrnalgebra gi mecritli mu&#039;u loi rarna ja rutni bangu .i la&#039;edi&#039;u mukti lenu mi tadni la lojban. kei noi ki&#039;u ke&#039;a mi zvati la jbolanzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i lo be&#039;ipre cu klama co veirgau lemi selcpe po&#039;u lo barda carmi bo ckafi gi&#039;ebabo nalsirkla mo&#039;ize&#039;oku na&#039;e mo&#039;ifa&#039;a le jupku&#039;a .i .uaru&#039;e simlu fa lenu ko&#039;a ze&#039;apu naje ca zvaju&#039;o mi .i mi&#039;a simxu rinsa .i la&#039;aru&#039;e mi bazi facki le krinu be lenu sutrygau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: Very cool, Iain. I wonder why we got you to the *Jbolaz? Hmmm? :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbab: With any luck, the rest of us will find out in JL18.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Next follows the first text of the type that was actually asked for - an English elaboration of setting and/or characters. Both David Bowen and Veijo Vilva, whose effort follows David&#039;s, have proposed characters for the cafe staff. You are welcome, indeed encouraged, to comment on these, possibly suggesting changes or elaborations, or to propose your own - remember that we need a half dozen or so to staff the cafe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also need lots more detail on the layout of the cafe, what is located where, what is the size of the various rooms, whether the &#039;cooking-space&#039; (as it was put in Veijo&#039;s first writing) is a separate room, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All submissions (subject to space) received prior to 5 March (15 March if computer-readable - via email or MS-DOS diskette) will appear in JL18, after which will commence voting if we get too many or too-conflicting descriptions.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David Bowen: The owner and manager [or perhaps just the owner or just the manager] of the Cafe Chalet is a man of mystery. It&#039;s easy enough to see him, either hiking among the hills surrounding the village or conversing with the customers as he makes his rounds. But any questions about his life before coming to the village are met with vague replies and a quick shift in the topic of conversation. There are stories that he used to be a climber himself. A climbing accident, so the story goes, which killed his lover while the two of them were attempting a major climb led to his retirement from the sport. It is said that much of the equipment which decorates the interior of the Chalet is his.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In appearance he&#039;s a big man, with light brown hair and green eyes. In summer his ruddy complexion turns to a golden tan and his hair lightens to the point where it almost matches his skin color. On the slopes, he is often seen in lederhosen and a green alpine hat. While in the Chalet, these are replaced by conservative gray or navy business suits. Only his bright paisley ties and an occasional brightly colored vest show hints of the boy hidden beneath the serious businessman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attempts to determine his background from his speech have been unsuccessful. Though his English shows most of the signs of British English, it shows no signs of any other European accent being mixed in. His German, French and Italian are equally indistinguishable from those spoken by native speakers and he has shown no problems conversing with visitors from other parts of Europe and Asia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Veijo: This is a description of la xiron, the first co-worker at la jbolanzu - Cafe Jbolanzu. No one knew his real name and the name he had picked for himself after learning Lojban was a kind of pun - if you bothered to play games with names. I don&#039;t tell much about the other members of the personnel as I didn&#039;t know them so well and, besides, I want to leave the pleasure of describing them to the other patrons of the Cafe. There were quite a few of us literary types spending our evenings there so someone else ought recollect enough of that time to relate about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I do not yet know whether xiron will interest you enough to make him a permanent member of the staff. So I shall tell you mostly about the first impressions he made on people and add more details later on if required.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He arrived one dark, windy evening in November. No one noticed him at first. He was just a tall shadow at the doorway, standing there, quietly observing the room. He stood there for a while, motionless, as if half asleep. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were groups of people sitting at the tables, drinking coffee, chatting with each other. Someone glimpsed at the door, started to turn away but changed his mind and took a closer look. Others noticed his curios gaze and also turned to look. A silence fell. A stranger wasn&#039;t too common those days. The man at the door seemed to wake up. He took off his hat, wiped his forehead with a sleeve and started towards the nearest unoccupied table with a heavy step. He hesitated for a moment before sitting down, glanced apprehensively around and threw down the rucksack from his shoulder. His hand was gently stroking the wood of the table and he had again a far-away look on his face. A murmur of voices began to fill the air as people lost their initial interest in the newcomer. Only the most curious ones were stealing glimpses at him every now and then. There was nothing special about the stranger except perhaps his quietness. He seemed to be content just to sit there and observe the other patrons. He was a dark, slim man of indeterminate age and origin, face expressionless but not inscrutable in an oriental way. He had obviously come afoot as his boots were covered with dust but somehow he didn&#039;t seem to be an outdoor type. Veins were visible on the backs of his hands but the hands were soft, apparently not used to manual work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The owner of the Cafe was busy in the kitchen and hadn&#039;t noticed the arrival of the stranger. He himself had drifted quite recently into the village and hadn&#039;t yet succeeded in hiring anyone to help at the Cafe so he had to serve at the tables in addition to cooking. Presently he lifted the frying pan to the edge of the stove, wiped his hands and started his round among the patrons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He noticed the stranger almost immediately. The stranger was looking straight at him but gave no sign at all of noticing him. There was no rudeness in the stranger&#039;s gaze when he at last noticed the approaching Cafe owner, just quiet waiting, no smile, no irritation. The Cafe owner felt a slight discomfort which reminded him of the times he had had to address the head master at school. Had someone asked he would have been unable to tell what exactly was the reason for this uneasiness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The stranger was looking at the approaching man. Japanese? No, more likely Chinese. What was he doing in these parts? Well, none of his business. He had been listening to the sound of the locals talking. There was a curious note in their speech and he had been unable to recognize the few words he was able to discern. He just hoped the Chinaman would be able to communicate in some language he knew.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Good evening, sir. Welcome to Cafe Jbolanzu. Quite chilly outside, isn&#039;t it? Would you like to have something hot to drink? Coffee or tea perhaps?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something in the appearance of the stranger made the owner choose English instead of Lojban to address him. A slight change in the attitude of the stranger&#039;s shoulders seemed to indicate relief. The Chinaman felt easier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was an almost imperceptible delay before the man answered. He wasn&#039;t actually surprised, it just always took him moment to switch into English. Now he knew he&#039;d be able to cope.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Oh, yes. Good evening. Yes, it is. Could you bring me some tea, please. Have you got any green teas? Gunpowder? I&#039;d really appreciate that. A whole pot of it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was no smile on his face even when he was speaking, just a relaxed softness. He was at peace with himself and had obviously no need to affect others one way or another. The Cafe owner felt strangely at home with the man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Well, I think I have got some tucked away somewhere. Isn&#039;t much demand for it, you know. Will take a while. Thank you, sir.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman left with a slight bow. The man sat waiting, still stroking the table every once in a while, regarding the others absentmindedly. The din of the conversations grew louder and his thoughts wandered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There had been a time when he had preferred quieter places, much quieter. He remembered a particular one in some provincial capital in the East. It was a large tea-house with tables for more than a hundred people. He had spent many an evening sitting there alone at his table sipping his tea and thinking. There were two other regular customers, the three of them coming there for a year or so a few times a week. Each had his own corner, they never spoke to each other during all the time he frequented the place. The Japanese waitresses sometimes told the latest news of Sensei-san, Teacher, as they called one of the patrons. It was really very discreet, no gossiping at all, they&#039;d say: &amp;quot;Sensei-san is tired today. He&#039;s had a rough day.&amp;quot; or something like that. And he&#039;d sit there sipping his Japanese tea, eating perhaps a cupful of rice with a slice of cucumber dipped in soy sauce and looking at Sensei-san correcting exam papers. It was a quiet time in his life. Later came more turbulent times but they too had passed into semi-oblivion. He&#039;d been wandering around for years now, observing people, almost always an outsider.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There was a sluggish discussion going on at many tables. Quite many people were just listening to the others and most of the speakers didn&#039;t seem to be very fluent. It was as if they had just recently learned the language. A few were narrating a longer story but they were quite often interrupted by one or another of the listeners who seemed to be asking something but curiously there was no change in their intonation. The stranger was perplexed. Where had he stumbled?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman returned with a large teapot and a Chinese rice cup. He put the cup in front of the stranger, poured some olive green tea into it and set the pot on the table.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Here you are, sir. Anything else, sir?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The man raised the cup to his lips, took a sip and sighed. He then lowered the cup and looked up to the waiting Cafe owner.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Excellent. Thank you. Maybe in a moment. Tell me, I&#039;ve been wondering, what is the language these people are talking in? Who are they really?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman paused for a moment before answering. He wasn&#039;t quite sure what to tell the stranger. He himself was just beginning to grasp the language spoken here and had to formulate his answer most carefully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Well, sir, the language is called Lojban but I guess the name tells you nothing. I myself knew quite many languages before coming here but I&#039;d never heard about it. It is a constructed language not related to any natural language - living or dead. Hard to explain in a few words if you aren&#039;t a linguist. These people are practitioners and students of Lojban who gather here to tell stories or just to chat with each other. As a matter of fact, the name of this Cafe is &#039;la jbolanzu&#039; which means something like &#039;The Clan of Lojban&#039;. It seemed to be a fitting name as most of my patrons are Lojbanists.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban. The stranger looked around. Not an ethnic language - that explained many things which had been bothering him already before he had reached the Cafe. Lojban. The name brought no recollections what so ever into his mind even though he had been studying linguistics sometime in the remote past. Languages had always interested him and he knew a few words of quite many languages. Some of the languages he had learned while wandering from place to place in search of - well, he really didn&#039;t know what. Some he had studied at various schools and colleges during the more quiet epochs of his life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I see. Thanks.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He had done many things and studied many subjects during the years since leaving home - some things out of necessity, some out of curiosity. Here was something new. He hesitated. He had intended to continue across the mountains in the morning. He wasn&#039;t exactly going anywhere but there were some old cities in the Plains and he had thought he&#039;d spend a few days just enjoying the atmosphere there. It was a long time since he had sat in a Bierstube drinking a proper black draught beer, sweet with the taste of caramel malt. But now he had bumped into something unexpected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman was leaving. Someone had beckoned him to a table across the room. The stranger nodded just slightly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He was eyeing the other customers with a renewed interest. He raised the cup and smelled the fragrance of the tea while pondering the situation. He&#039;d have to find some employment if he was to stay for more than a few days. Perhaps the Chinaman could help? He was prepared to do almost anything within his capacity for board and lodgings and a reasonable amount of free time. He&#039;d stay till he felt it was again time to go.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman had apparently gone to the kitchen which wasn&#039;t visible to where the stranger was sitting. The questions would have to wait. An elderly man at a nearby table stood up and approached him...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A year had gone by. He called himself xiron now. There was no specific reason for the name - he had just made it up one night in early June when he was trying to memorize a batch of rafsi. Though names had no inherent meaning you could always play with them, divide them in different ways - even ungrammatically. xi-ro-n, xi-ron, xir-on. The last variant had a Japanese rafsi meaning &#039;sound&#039; at the end. He would play the games mainly in his thoughts as he wasn&#039;t exactly of the playful type. He would rarely venture to play with others and few would have considered him a member of the species Homo ludens, playing man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He had made few friends during his year at the Cafe and no real enemies though there were people who didn&#039;t like him very much. Newcomers often at first thought he was unfriendly as he didn&#039;t smile when he greeted them and later on many felt the same uneasiness the Chinaman had felt a year ago. Perhaps it was the initial impression of self-as-suredness and reservedness which only gradually was replaced by a more realistic, more mixed one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Xiron was mostly very quiet and even later on in the evenings when the staff was mixing with the customers he&#039;d just sit there and listen to others talking, rarely expressing himself. When he did there was a certain finality in what he said. He might err but mostly his facts and opinions had a ring of truth about them which made it hard for the others to disagree. Sometimes he got on his hobbyhorse and then there was no keeping him. Luckily the occasions were quite rare.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He seemed to know very much or at least of very many different subjects though if you poked deeper you might find that sometimes he knew just a handful of key facts, nothing more profound. He didn&#039;t often volunteer the information. It was almost as if he had considered many things not worth mentioning without a specific reason. Just knowing wasn&#039;t enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Chinaman now liked him. Many times they had sat late at night quietly sipping tea, not talking much, each deep in reverie. Both had seen a lot of world and contemplated many things with a certain polite amusement. Not many words were needed to convey ideas and somehow Lojban suited their purposes extremely well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are 2 Lojban pieces, the first two &#039;stories&#039; told in the cafe. A translation of Mark&#039;s story will be found in the translation section (pg. 63). Iain&#039;s story has not been translated, though there are some comments in the translation section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o vanci .icabo nalcladu ne&#039;i le ckafybarja .i le bi&#039;u&amp;lt;ref name=bi /&amp;gt; remna cu klama mo&#039;ine&#039;i ra .i ko&#039;a goi ra zutse ne&#039;a lo jubme .i ko&#039;a cpedu loi tcati le kafybarja se jibri .i ba so&#039;o mentu ko&#039;a se dunda loi tcati gi&#039;e co&#039;aru&#039;inai pinxe ri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a ca lenu ko&#039;a pinxe loi tcati po ko&#039;a cu zgana lenu le bi&#039;u nanmu cu se dunda lei ckafi poi ra pu cpedu ke&#039;a .ije le nanmu goi ko&#039;e cu pencu le kabri poi se nenri lei ckafi ku&#039;o le degji gi&#039;enai pinxe lei ckafi .ije mu&#039;i zo&#039;epela&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;e cusku ®lu .o&#039;onai ju&#039;ido&#039;u ko lebna lei vi ckafi gi&#039;ebabo bevri fi mi fe lei je&#039;a glare ku&#039;i ckafi li&#039;u¯ le bevri be lei ckafi be&#039;o goi ko&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu .u&#039;u .ie ga&#039;inai li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;ebabo lebna le kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;i krefu klama gi&#039;e bevri lei ckafi vau ba so&#039;o mentu .i ko&#039;e krefu pencu le kabri .i ko&#039;e cusku ®lu .i&#039;esai ba&#039;e ti ku&#039;i cu je&#039;a glare ckafi li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;e gleki pinxe lei ckafi po ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i ko&#039;a zgana la&#039;eso&#039;odi&#039;u .i ba so&#039;o mentu ko&#039;a tavla le bi&#039;unai selpinxe bevri goi ko&#039;i .i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .ia do pu bevri lei naldrata ckafi ta vau ?xu li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu go&#039;i .o&#039;unairo&#039;a .u&#039;uro&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu ko .i&#039;i na jikca dunku .i mi puzuze&#039;u se jibri loinu bevri loi selpinxe vi lo gusta .iseki&#039;ubo mi djuno tu&#039;a le do se zukte .i da poi prenu cu genai pinxe lei ckafi gi pencu le kabri gi&#039;e na&#039;e djica tu&#039;a lei ckafi ki&#039;u lo za&#039;i na&#039;e pe&#039;ise&#039;inai glare .ije semu&#039;i loinu da minde mi lenu basti lei ckafi loi glare ckafi kei kei mi lebna lei ckafi gi&#039;e na&#039;o denpa fu&#039;i so&#039;e mentu tezu&#039;e lenu tu&#039;a lei ckafi cu glaryri&#039;a le kabri kei fo lenu krefu dunda lei naldrata ckafi .i za&#039;a do panra zukte .i la&#039;ede&#039;u ve ctuca fu tu&#039;a le slabu lisri be le bebna seljibri ka&#039;u li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu le lisri ki&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .ue do punai ?xu ve lisri fu ri li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ®lu noroi ve lisri li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ®lu .ai mi te lisri .i tu&#039;e ka&#039;u da&#039;i puzuki da te bende le re seljibri .i fo&#039;a goi le te bende ca le fanmo be le jeftu cu pleji le se jerna le re seljibri no&#039;u lu&#039;i le prije seljibri goi fo&#039;e ge&#039;u jo&#039;u le bebna seljibri goi fo&#039;i .i le se jerna cu rupnu li panono .ijesemu&#039;ibo fo&#039;a pleji lei jdini be ta&#039;i le pelji jdini fo&#039;e .e fo&#039;i .i fo&#039;e ckire fo&#039;a gi&#039;ebabo cliva gi&#039;e gleki ki&#039;u lenu le jdini cu se vamji li su&#039;orau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i fo&#039;i na&#039;e gleki .i cusku ®lu .o&#039;onai mi to&#039;e lazni gunka fi&#039;o te bende do ca piro le jeftu .i do pleji levi malpelji .i&#039;enaisai mi .i le&#039;o ko pleji fi mi fe le je&#039;u je&#039;a jdini no&#039;u lo sicni li&#039;u¯ .isemu&#039;ibo fo&#039;a pleji fo&#039;i lo gusminra sicni poi se fepni li mu .iseki&#039;ubo fo&#039;i gleki klama le fo&#039;i zdani tu&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i tu&#039;a di&#039;u xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u jdice nagi&#039;apubo e&#039;ucai zgana .i .ua ri&#039;a je&#039;unai ka&#039;u le sego&#039;i zo &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot; noi cmavo fi lesi&#039;o zgana ku&#039;o cu rafsi zo zabna li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=bi &amp;gt;Lojbab: This text uses &amp;quot;bi&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bi&#039;unai&amp;quot; which are not on any published word lists yet with the current meaning. They are used to discursively to mark pieces of the sentence as &#039;new information&#039; or &#039;old information&#039;. New information is that which the speaker is trying to communicate to the listener, while old information is that which the speaker assumes that the listener knows from background or context. Normally this distinction is conveyed in natural languages through word order (putting new information either at the beginning or the end of the sentence, typically, depending on the language and the situation), but people want to have the option in Lojban of using word order for other purposes including simply expressing the place structures in numerical order. Marking a &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; description sumti as new information on its first occurrence in text, for example, means that the speaker has a specific and definite someone/- something in mind, but that he doesn&#039;t expect the listener to know which someone/something is being referred to at that point. Without &amp;quot;bi&#039;u&amp;quot;, the listener might wonder why he can&#039;t figure out which one the speaker is talking about.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Iain:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i bazi lenu mi&#039;a simxu lenu rinsa kuku lo nanmu poi nanca li so&#039;a cu klama pu&#039;e le na&#039;e sirji ne&#039;i le barja gi&#039;e co&#039;a zutse ca&#039;u mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le nanmu goi ko&#039;a cusku le se du&#039;u ri puzi se gunta lo puzu respa pe la&#039;o ly. saurischia ly.  .i ®lu .iku&#039;i loi respa pe la&#039;edi&#039;u cu puzu ji&#039;esti li&#039;u¯ se cusku mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .ila&#039;aru&#039;e go&#039;i .iboku&#039;i simlu fa lenu noda ve cilre la&#039;edi&#039;u fo ra cu&#039;usa&#039;a ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lenu mi&#039;a simxu lenu kansa cu nanca li reno&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi co&#039;aki kurji ko&#039;e goi le respa ca lenu ri ca&#039;o citno&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi jinvi ledu&#039;u le mamta be ko&#039;e cu morsi ba&#039;o lo nanca be li so&#039;o .ije cumki fa lenu ko&#039;e romoi lu&#039;i le jutsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le pendo be mi zu&#039;apu kurji ko&#039;e gi&#039;eku&#039;i puzi co&#039;a speni gi&#039;e gasnu lenu cfari fa lenu lanzu kuku gi&#039;e jinvi ledu&#039;u vo&#039;a na kakne lenu tu&#039;ari xamgu ko&#039;e ca lenu xamgu le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isemu&#039;ibo le go&#039;i cpedu lenu mi curmi lenu basti fi lenu bilga lenu kurji ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi je&#039;a curmi .ijeja&#039;ebo kiku nu&#039;i bi&#039;ogi ca la&#039;edi&#039;u gi caku dunda loi cidja .e loi djacu ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ijebo satre ko&#039;e .ijebo fi lenu cadzu cu kansa fe ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ca lo&#039;e vanci mi tavla ko&#039;e so&#039;i klesi be lei te cilre be&#039;o ne mu&#039;u le citri be loi jmive be va&#039;o le terdi be&#039;obe&#039;o .e loi jicmu be le saske bele munje poi vanbi ma&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i jetnu fa lenu ko&#039;e na kakne lenu tavla .ijeku&#039;iseki&#039;unaibo mi su&#039;oroi jinvi lenu ko&#039;e jimpe la&#039;e le se cusku be mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .iku&#039;i mu&#039;ima va&#039;o la&#039;e so&#039;odi&#039;u ko&#039;e co&#039;a bradi do li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
na birti .i noda ru&#039;a jimpe le stura bele menli be lei puzu respa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i seki&#039;unai la&#039;ede&#039;u mi pupuziki gasnu lenu xendo ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi&#039;a puzi klama zo&#039;a lo bende be lo xanto .ijeseki&#039;ubo mi mu&#039;i lenu djica lenu fanta lenu damba noi cumki fa lenu ke&#039;a se jalge lenu ko&#039;e se xrani cu cusku ®lu ko se kajde fi tu&#039;a le mabru li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
li&#039;u¯ mi&#039;e .i,n.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== le lisri be le serti ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Christo Smirnenski, translated from Bulgarian by Ivan Derzhanski&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over a year ago, Ivan made the following translation from a Bulgarian original. Because Nora and I have been so slow at technical review of Lojban text and because JL has been less than regular, this long promised effort is finally making it to print.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with some of our other texts this issue, a translation may be found later, along with footnoted commentary on the text. This text is being published without final revision. Ivan&#039;s original submission was so well done that Nora was able to translate it and understand it as she received it. Her translation was extensively commented by Ivan, who planned to rewrite the text based on the comments. I think that the text we have is good enough to see print, and the commentary and response from Ivan, with added notes from Nick Nicholas and Lojbab, serve as an excellent study in Lojban stylistics and the problems of translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The excellence of Ivan&#039;s work should not be doubted merely because of the number of footnotes. The stylistic discussions in these footnotes consist of Ivan&#039;s explanations of subtle distinctions in the original Bulgarian that are not captured in Nora&#039;s translation. I felt that presenting these discussions would teach a fair amount about the language, while showing some of the stylistic considerations that go into an excellent translation, considerations that need not apply when, like Veijo or Mark, you write originally in Lojban.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with other pieces published in this JL, I am publishing this text with essentially no changes, choosing instead to make my comments in the footnotes along with Nora&#039;s, Nick&#039;s, and Ivan&#039;s. Ivan did such an excellent job; I can scarcely say that my artistic judgement could better than his capture the sense of the Bulgarian text that I&#039;ve never read.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enjoy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fitfi&#039;i di&#039;e ro lei ba cusku be ledu&#039;u vo&#039;e vo&#039;i na srana&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
®lu do ?mo li&#039;u¯ preti fi la pacrux. goi fo&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai mi bruna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .oicai ge le terdi cu to&#039;e melbi gi le remna cu to&#039;e gleki &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;u se bacru lo citno nanmu noi se lafti se mebri gi&#039;e denmi se xance .i ri goi ko&#039;a sanli crane le serti .i labyxu&#039;e linji ke blabi roimrmaro ke galtu serti .i ko&#039;a catlu mo&#039;ifa&#039;a le darno ne di&#039;o lepu&#039;u lei grusi kalsygri be leka pindi cu ca simsa be loi ctaru rirxe ke to&#039;ekli boxna ku savri&#039;a .i diklo slilu gi&#039;e febvi fengu gi&#039;e lafti loi to&#039;e plana ke xekri birka .i le nunpante ke suksa sance .e lei fengu nunki&#039;a cu desku le vacri .i le te minra cu simsa be lo darno ke barda terdanti sance ku masno je junri runta .i lei girzu cu banro gi&#039;e klama ne&#039;i loi pelxu pulce dilnu .ije loi sepli ti&#039;otra cu mutcne leka viskli ze&#039;o le kampu ke grusi vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pa.o&#039;enai to&#039;ercitno cu simsa be lepu&#039;u sisku leri se cirko ka citno be&#039;o ni&#039;akro be fa&#039;a le terdi ku dzukla .i lo cucycau cmaxli cu jgari lera selxaksu taxfu gi&#039;e catlu le galtu serti sepi&#039;o lo tinbe je simsa be le rulnkentaure,a bei leka blanu ku kanla .i catlu je cisma .i loi selpopseltau je grusi je cinla remtra cu trixe dzukla gi&#039;e gunma sanga lo selsno ke mrori&#039;i zgike .i da kercrori&#039;a siclu fi le ctebi .i de noi daski nenri se xance cu cmila sepi&#039;o lo cladu je rufsu voksa .ije lede kanla cu jarco leka fenki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai mi bruna .i .oicai ge le terdi cu to&#039;e melbi gi le remna cu to&#039;e gleki .i .iunai vu gapru .i .o&#039;onai li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;u se bacru lo citno nanmu noi se lafti se mebri gi&#039;e dukri&#039;a denmi se xance&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .io xupe&#039;i do xebni lei vu gapru li&#039;u¯ preti fi fo&#039;a noi ca tcica krori&#039;a le xadni fa&#039;a ko&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .aisai mi ba vefsfa lei vu mabla nobli joi turni .i mi ri kusru vefsfa seka&#039;i leimi bruna goi ko&#039;u noi simsa be le canre bei leka pelxu ku se flira zi&#039;e noi zmadu be le la gaimast. si&#039;erbi&#039;e bei leni tepri&#039;a ku se cmoni .i ko viska leko&#039;u ®lunbe ke ciblu ve flecu xadni .i ko tirna leko&#039;u cmoni .i .ai mi ko&#039;u venfu .i le&#039;o ko curmi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a cisma&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi jibri bandu lei vu gapru .ije mi se le&#039;irbai gi&#039;anai lacti&#039;a ri li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi ponse no solji .i mi ponse no lo se pleji befi do .i mi pindi je selpopseltau citno .iku&#039;i mi bredi lenu pleji lemi kazyji&#039;e li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a rapli cisma&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .e&#039;onai ri zmadu lemi se cpadji .i do&#039;anai ko fi mi dunda leka do sanga&#039;e li&#039;u¯ .i ®lu .ueru&#039;e leka mi sanga&#039;e .i .iefi&#039;i .i .e&#039;i mi noroi tirna di .i .e&#039;i li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu do ranji leka ka&#039;e tirna li&#039;u¯ .i fo&#039;a ko&#039;a papri&#039;a sepi&#039;o di&#039;u gi&#039;e cadzu curmi .i ®lu ko pagre li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a bikla bajra gi&#039;e dzugre ci te serti tai pa nu stapa .i ku&#039;i lefo&#039;a terkre xance ko&#039;a lacpu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu banzu .i ko sisti mu&#039;i lenu tirna leiko&#039;u vu cnita cmoni li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a sisti gi&#039;e kerlo jundi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .uesai .i ?ki&#039;uma ko&#039;u suksa cfari lenu to&#039;edri sanga gi&#039;e xalbo cmila li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a krefu ke bikla bajra&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a ko&#039;a krefu rinju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mu&#039;i lenu do krefu pagre ci te serti kei mi cpadji ledo kanla li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a pa&#039;arcau sliri&#039;a le xance&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ku&#039;i va&#039;o la&#039;edi&#039;u mi na ka&#039;e viska ga leimi bruna gi leimi ba se vefsfa li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu do ranji leka ka&#039;e viska&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi fi do ba dunda lo drata kanla noi mutce zmadu li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a rapli pagre ci te serti gi&#039;e ni&#039;a catlu jundi .i fo&#039;a rinka lenu ko&#039;a morji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ko viska leko&#039;u ®lunbe ke ciblu ve flecu xadni li&#039;u¯ &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .uecai .i .u&#039;ecai cizra &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ?cama binxo lenu ko&#039;u melbi dasni .i ji&#039;a seba&#039;i lei ciblu te xrani ko&#039;u se jadni loi se manci xunre rozgu li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o vi ro lo cimoi te serti fo&#039;a di&#039;i lebna lefo&#039;a cmalu selpleji .i ku&#039;i ko&#039;a ru&#039;i cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a bredi dunda rodi mu&#039;i lemu&#039;e klama tu gi&#039;e vefsfa leivu malplana nobli joi turni .i .uo.ui semaunai pa te serti .i ba su&#039;epa te serti ko&#039;a gapru .i ko&#039;a cabazi venfu leiko&#039;a bruna .i ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai sa&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ju&#039;i. citno nanmu su&#039;epa te serti .i ba su&#039;epa te serti do venfu .i ku&#039;i levi te serti di&#039;i ve pleji le relpi&#039;i jdima mi .i ko fi mi dunda leka do cinmo je morji li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a sliri&#039;a le xance&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .ii leka cinmo .i .e&#039;anaicai .i dukse kusru li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a maljgira cmila ra&#039;i le galxe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi na mela&#039;edi&#039;u kusru .i mi fi do canja dunda lo zabna kazyci&#039;o .e lo cnino kazmo&#039;i .i ga do zanru gi do noroi pagre levi te serti gi&#039;e noroi venfu leido bruna pe lo se flira be le simsa be le canre zi&#039;e pe le se cmoni be le zmadu be le la gaimast. si&#039;erbi&#039;e bei leni tepri&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu lefo&#039;a crino je ranxi kanla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ku&#039;i mi ba traji leni to&#039;e gleki .i do lebna ro ckaji be le kazre&#039;a mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu to&#039;e go&#039;e .i traji leni je&#039;a gleki .i .e&#039;apei .i ?xu do tugni .i do&#039;anai leka do cinmo je morji li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a cu trati pensi .i lo xekri ctino cu manri&#039;a leko&#039;a flira .i loi xasne ke to&#039;ekli dirgo cu gunro zo&#039;a le se cinje mebri .i ko&#039;a fengu demri&#039;a le xance gi&#039;e bacru pa&#039;o le denci ®lu .ai.e&#039;asai .i ko lebna li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca lenu le xekri kerfa ca biflu&#039;a kei ko&#039;a simsa be le crisa lidbi&#039;e ku fengu pagre le romoi te serti .i ko&#039;a capu snada lemu&#039;e gapru .i suksa cisma gusni leko&#039;a flira .i leko&#039;a kanla cu dirce seci&#039;o le smaji ka se mansa .i leko&#039;a xance cu ®luzbi&#039;o .i ko&#039;a catlu lei pixsalci nobli .i catlu le cnita be di&#039;o lenu krixa je dapma fa le grusi je selpopseltau girzu .i catlu .i ku&#039;i no sluji be leko&#039;a flira cu frati .i ri selgu&#039;i je gleki je selpu&#039;a .i ko&#039;a viska loi salci se taxfu girzu vi le cnita .i lei pu cmoni ca salpemci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu do ?mo li&#039;u¯ tcica preti fi fo&#039;a sepi&#039;o lo rufsu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi nobli ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije lei cevni mi bruna .i .uicai ge le terdi cu je&#039;a melbi gi le remna cu je&#039;a gleki li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;u se finti la xristoz. smirnensk. gi&#039;e se fanva la .iVAN. derJANSK. fo le banblgaria si&#039;u la nitcion. nikolas. fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== le ci cribe ===&lt;br /&gt;
An Operettina with a familiar plot and music, by Nora LeChevalier (As performed at LogFest 92 - No translation exists for this text)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Props: big, medium &amp;amp; little bowls.  Also pot &amp;amp; serving spoon, table &amp;amp; chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
       high, medium &amp;amp; low chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
       hard, soft &amp;amp; medium beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[] = actions&lt;br /&gt;
() = extra syllables/words on sung line.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The 3 bears sit down to eat.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      Song #1: &amp;quot;mi ba citka&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;Are You Sleeping?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                -------------------------    -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
     mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) glare .oi           mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) glare .oi      (.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) .e&#039;u mi&#039;o denpa                     (.i) glare .oi          mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
     le nu ti ba cenba                   (.i) glare .oi     (.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) litru .ai      (.i) .e&#039;u mi&#039;o denpa (.i) glare .oi&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) litru .ai [starts leaving]               le nu ti ba cenba  (.i) glare .oi&lt;br /&gt;
                    (.i) litru .ai       (.i) .e&#039;u mi&#039;o denpa&lt;br /&gt;
                    (.i) litru .ai [starts leaving]         le nu ti ba cenba&lt;br /&gt;
                                         (.i) litru .ai&lt;br /&gt;
                                         (.i) litru .ai [starts leaving]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The 3 bears leave.  Along comes Goldilocks]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      Song #2: &amp;quot;mi xagji&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;The Inky-Dinky Spider&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                    GOLDILOCKS&lt;br /&gt;
                 --------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
                 mi xagji gi&#039;e tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
                 .i mi ba nerkla ti&lt;br /&gt;
 [enters &amp;amp; sniffs]  .i .ue kukte panci&lt;br /&gt;
                 da poi cidja vi&lt;br /&gt;
                 .ije zangla marbi&lt;br /&gt;
                 co se kufra mi&lt;br /&gt;
                 .i mi lazni gi&#039;e citka&lt;br /&gt;
                 le kukydja bazi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [Goldilocks sits down at table and starts on Big Bowl contents.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Song #3 &amp;quot;ti dukse glare&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;He&#039;s Got the Whole World In His Hands&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Sits down at table with bowls]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 1:            GOLDILOCKS&lt;br /&gt;
                 --------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
 [tastes from big bowl]  ti dukse glare .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [tastes from medium]    .i dukse lenku .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [tastes from small]     .i prane ni glare&lt;br /&gt;
                 .ui ai cai&lt;br /&gt;
                 .i mi ba citka piro ti [eats it all up]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [Goes to chairs]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 2:            GOLDILOCKS&lt;br /&gt;
                 --------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on high chair]    ti dukse galtu .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on low]   .i dukse dizlo .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on medium]   .i prane ni galtu&lt;br /&gt;
                 .ui ai cai&lt;br /&gt;
                 .i mi ba stizu zutse ti&lt;br /&gt;
 [falls off chair as it breaks.&lt;br /&gt;
  Spoken:]       .ue&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [Goes to beds]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 3:            GOLDILOCKS&lt;br /&gt;
                 --------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on hard bed] ti dukse jdari .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on soft]  .i dukse ranti .i&lt;br /&gt;
                 .oi .ai nai&lt;br /&gt;
 [sits on medium]   .i prane ni jdari&lt;br /&gt;
                 .ui .ai cai&lt;br /&gt;
                 .i mi ba sipna cpana ti     [lies down &amp;amp; goes to sleep]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[3 bears return, entering]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Song #4: &amp;quot;le ci cribe co&#039;u xrutykla&amp;quot;  to the tune of &amp;quot;Oh, How Lovely Is the Evening&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                -------------------------    -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
le ci cribe&lt;br /&gt;
  co&#039;u xrutykla&lt;br /&gt;
  le ri lazyzda&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e djica          le ci cribe&lt;br /&gt;
  le nu gurnycti      co&#039;u xrutykla&lt;br /&gt;
  gi&#039;e surla  .i      le ri lazyzda&lt;br /&gt;
ctinei              gi&#039;e djica           le ci cribe&lt;br /&gt;
cribe                 le nu gurnycti       co&#039;u xrutykla&lt;br /&gt;
cimei                 gi&#039;e surla  .i       le ri lazyzda&lt;br /&gt;
                    ctinei               gi&#039;e djica&lt;br /&gt;
                    cribe                  le nu gurnycti&lt;br /&gt;
                    cimei                  gi&#039;e surla  .i&lt;br /&gt;
                                         ctinei&lt;br /&gt;
                                         cribe&lt;br /&gt;
                                         cimei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          Song #5: &amp;quot;bredi .au&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;This Old Man&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 1: [3 bears go to bowls]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                -------------------------    -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
bredi .au&lt;br /&gt;
selcti mi&lt;br /&gt;
vi le palta         bredi .au&lt;br /&gt;
   barda .ui        selcti mi&lt;br /&gt;
.i da citka pi      vi le palta          bredi .au&lt;br /&gt;
   so&#039;u le kukte ti    midju .ui         selcti mi&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le ka        .i de citka pi       vi le palta&lt;br /&gt;
   vefydji             so&#039;u le kukte ti     cmalu .ui&lt;br /&gt;
                    semu&#039;i le ka         .i di citka pi&lt;br /&gt;
                       vefydji              ro lemi kukte ti&lt;br /&gt;
                                         semu&#039;i le ka&lt;br /&gt;
                                            vefydji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 2: [3 bears go to chairs]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                ------------------------     -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
stizu co&lt;br /&gt;
steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e mutce          stizu co&lt;br /&gt;
   galtu .ui        steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
.i da zutse le mi   gi&#039;e mutce           stizu co&lt;br /&gt;
   stizu .ue puzi      dizlo .ui         steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le ka        .i de zutse le mi    gi&#039;e milxe&lt;br /&gt;
   vefydji             stizu .ue puzi       galtu .ui&lt;br /&gt;
                    semu&#039;i le ka         .i di daspypli le&lt;br /&gt;
                       vefydji              stizu .ue puzi&lt;br /&gt;
                                         semu&#039;i le ka&lt;br /&gt;
                                            vefydji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Verse 3: [3 bears go to beds]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                -------------------------    -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
ckana co&lt;br /&gt;
steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e mutce          ckana co&lt;br /&gt;
   jdari .ui        steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
.i da vreta le mi   gi&#039;e mutce           ckana co&lt;br /&gt;
   ckana .ue puzi      ranti .ui         steci mi&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le ka        .i de vreta le mi    gi&#039;e milxe&lt;br /&gt;
   vefydji             ckana .ue puzi       jdari .ui&lt;br /&gt;
                    semu&#039;i le ka         .i di vreta le mi&lt;br /&gt;
                       vefydji              ckana .ue puzi&lt;br /&gt;
                                         gi&#039;e ranji&lt;br /&gt;
                                            zvati ti  [points]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Goldilocks awakes to see three angry bears.  She cowers]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   Song #6 &amp;quot;.ue .o&#039;onai&amp;quot; to Beethoven&#039;s 5th Symphony, 1st Movement, starting after the two introductory 4-note groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                                 111&lt;br /&gt;
[Play symphony as accompaniment - Wait for introductory bars to end&lt;br /&gt;
and start singing.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR                MAMA BEAR    BABY BEAR        GOLDILOCKS&lt;br /&gt;
---------------------    ----------------------   -------------------- -           ----------------------&lt;br /&gt;
.ue .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
            .ue .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                         .ue .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                                      .ii cai&lt;br /&gt;
.i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
            .i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                         .i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                                      .ii cai&lt;br /&gt;
.i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                                      .ii cai&lt;br /&gt;
            .i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                                      .ii cai&lt;br /&gt;
                         .i .o&#039;onai&lt;br /&gt;
                                      mi cliva [runs out]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Once again, the 3 bears sit down to eat.  Mama Bear serves afresh.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 Song #7: &amp;quot;mi ba citka&amp;quot;, reprise (to the tune of &amp;quot;Are You Sleeping?&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   PAPA BEAR           MAMA BEAR            BABY BEAR&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------                -------------------------    -------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
     mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) glare .oi           mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) glare .oi      (.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) mi&#039;o na ba denpa                    (.i) glare .oi          mi ba citka&lt;br /&gt;
     le nu ti ba cenba                   (.i) glare .oi     (.i) mi ba citka  [eats]&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) citka .ai      (.i) mi&#039;o na ba denpa    (.i) glare .oi&lt;br /&gt;
(.i) citka .ai [starts eating]                le nu ti ba cenba  (.i) glare .oi&lt;br /&gt;
                    (.i) citka .ai       (.i) mi&#039;o na ba denpa&lt;br /&gt;
                    (.i) citka .ai [starts eating]          le nu ti ba cenba&lt;br /&gt;
                                         (.i) citka .ai&lt;br /&gt;
                                         (.i) citka .ai [starts eating]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[curtains close]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: Three Alternate songs available for Song #3 (Goldilocks tries food, etc.): &lt;br /&gt;
                                    &lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A: &amp;quot;ti cu dukse glare&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;She&#039;ll Be Coming &#039;Round the Mountain When She Comes&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti cu dukse glare cidja .ue .aunai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse ji&#039;a lenku .aunaisai  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti glare prane cidja           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi kazyxagji citka             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ze&#039;apu le nu se tisna             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.a&#039;o .ai                          &lt;br /&gt;
                                  &lt;br /&gt;
ti cu dukse galtu stizu .ue .aunai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse ji&#039;a dizlo .aunaisai  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti galtu prane stizu           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi djica le nu mi cu           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zutse surla vi le pritu           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.a&#039;o .ai                           &lt;br /&gt;
                                   &lt;br /&gt;
ti cu dukse jdari ckana .ue .aunai &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse ji&#039;a ranti .aunaisai   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti jdari prane ckana            &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i do kakne le nu zgana            &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le nu mi cu sipna cpana            &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.a&#039;o .ai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi na vreta ti    &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse .uu ranti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .a&#039;o ta xagmau ti &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .ui .ai cai       &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi vreta sipna .ui vi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B: &amp;quot;ti dukse glare .ainai&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;For the Beauty of the Earth&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti dukse glare .ainai .i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi na ka&#039;e citka ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i dukse ji&#039;a lenku .uu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ta va cu xagmau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti glare prane .ui&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi citka piro ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti dukse galtu .ainai .i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi na ka&#039;e zutse ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i dukse ji&#039;a dizlo .uu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ta va cu xagmau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti galtu prane .ui&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi stizu zutse ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti dukse jdari .ainai .i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi na ka&#039;e sipna vi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i dukse ji&#039;a ranti .uu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ta va cu xagmau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti jdari prane .ui&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi sipna cpana ti&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
C: &amp;quot;ti cu dukse .uu glare&amp;quot; to the tune of &amp;quot;Du, Du Liegst Mir Im Herzen&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti cu dukse .uu glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi na citka ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse .uu lenku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .a&#039;o ta xagmau ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .ui .ai cai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi citka piro ti vi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti cu dukse .uu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi na zutse ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ti dukse .uu dizlo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .a&#039;o ta xagmau ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .ui .ai cai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mi stizu zutse .ui vi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ti cu dukse .uu jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations and Commentary for ckafybarja writings and le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are computer-generated glosses for the first of Veijo&#039;s two Lojban texts. In addition to providing help for those who are attempting to read the texts, they also serve to show the current capability of the Lojban glosser program that Nora is working on. As it is, it produces word-for-word interlinear translations, substituting an English keyword for each Lojban word (and some compounds). But as you can see, a word-for-word gloss can be nearly unreadable if you do not know the grammatical function of each Lojban word, and appropriately adjust the meaning of the keyword to reflect the function of the word in the Lojban grammar of the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Veijo&#039;s First Text ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
 ({&amp;lt;le  [(la veion) (ckafybarja    {srinuntroci          &amp;lt;[xi    pa]  &lt;br /&gt;
    the      veion   coffee+tavern  story+event-of+tries   -sub- 1    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
[xi    ci]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
 -sub- 3                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o  {&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[sriku&#039;a   ] i [ckafybarja   ]&amp;gt;               &lt;br /&gt;
    _                    Story+room  .  Coffee+tavern                 &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;mi   [(zvati      {&amp;lt;le  vorstu   &amp;gt;}) gi&#039;e (terpanci                &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me     present at   the door+site    and   3rd-place-of+odor       &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
{&amp;lt;[loi             ckafi ] [da           ui       cai                 ]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}                                                               &lt;br /&gt;
   the mass of all coffee   something #1 (Wheee!) (-intense emotion!) &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i {mi   &amp;lt;[(ca               {ze&#039;u                &amp;lt;pu                  &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me      at the time (of)  for an eon (during)  before              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
[nai  oi   ]&amp;gt;}) sumne  ] [da          ]&amp;gt;})                            &lt;br /&gt;
 -not (Oy!)     smeller   something #1                                &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i (mi   {&amp;lt;dzukla     [(le  jbustu    )]&amp;gt; gi&#039;e &amp;lt;ctacarna        &amp;gt;})]   &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me     walks+goes   the table+site    and   looks-at+rotates       &lt;br /&gt;
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i [(rancindu jubme)]&amp;gt;                                                 &lt;br /&gt;
.   Soft+oak table                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
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i &amp;lt;seldandu          [(lo   {&amp;lt;vrici         to&#039;erninda&#039;i           &amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
.  2nd-place-of+hang   some   miscellaneous opposite-of-+new+object   &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;noi     [mi   ({na       djuno} {&amp;lt;zo&#039;e      ke&#039;a     &amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}      &lt;br /&gt;
 , which  me     not true knows    something he/she/it                &lt;br /&gt;
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i {selzvati                &amp;lt;[({ji&#039;i          pano}) (zutse remna)]&amp;gt;}) &lt;br /&gt;
.  2nd-place-of+present-at     approximately 10      sits  human      &lt;br /&gt;
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i (srotanxe   {&amp;lt;[loi             ckafi ] [lei         mudri]&amp;gt;})] i    [vrici        ]&amp;gt;                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
.  Stores+box    the mass of all coffee   the mass of wood       .    Miscellaneous                                                         &lt;br /&gt;
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i &amp;lt;mi   [visyfacki       ({fi  &amp;lt;[pa] [lo   ({poi  &amp;lt;[loi               &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me    sees+discoverer   x3=   1    some   that   the mass of all   &lt;br /&gt;
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remna] [(na       zutlamji     ) (ke&#039;a     )]&amp;gt; ku&#039;o} {jubme &amp;lt;goi      ko&#039;a&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
human    not true sits+adjacent   he/she/it    ,      table  alias    it-1&lt;br /&gt;
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i {mi   &amp;lt;[co&#039;a        zutlamji     ] [ko&#039;a]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
.  Me     on starting sits+adjacent   it-1&lt;br /&gt;
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i (ko&#039;a {lamji    &amp;lt;[le  nunjupca&#039;u          ]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
.  It-1  adjacent   the event-of+cooks+space&lt;br /&gt;
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i [(le  jukpa) cu        ({selviska         } gi&#039;e {jupfinti&lt;br /&gt;
.   The cooks  (is/does)   2nd-place-of+sees  and   cooks+inventor&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;[de           a&#039;ucu&#039;i          ]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  something #2 (Not interested!)&lt;br /&gt;
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i &amp;lt;mi   [(pensi     a&#039;e         ) ({loi&lt;br /&gt;
.  Me     cogitates (I&#039;m alert!)    the mass of all&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;selpinxe            co      [ckafi  au       ]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
 2nd-place-of+drinks of type  coffee (I want!)&lt;br /&gt;
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i {ckafypanci  &amp;lt;[fi  (mi   ui      )]&amp;gt;}) i (ckafypanci )] [&lt;br /&gt;
.  Coffee+odor   x3=  me   (Wheee!)      .  Coffee+odor&lt;br /&gt;
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i ui       o&#039;u             ]&amp;gt; i &amp;lt;sriku&#039;a   &amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
. (Wheee!) (Ahh! Relaxing!)   .  Story+room&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Commentary on Veijo&#039;s first text ===&lt;br /&gt;
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le la vei,on ckafybarja srinuntroci xipa xici&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o sriku&#039;a .i ckafybarja .i mi zvati le vorstu gi&#039;e terpanci loi ckafi da.uicai&amp;lt;span id=x1a /&amp;gt;[[#x1b|[1]]] .i mi ca ze&#039;upunai.oi sumne da&amp;lt;span id=x2a /&amp;gt;[[#x2b|[2]]] .i mi dzukla le jbustu&amp;lt;span id=x3a /&amp;gt;[[#x3b|[3]]] gi&#039;e ctacarna&amp;lt;span id=x4a /&amp;gt;[[#x4b|[4]]] .i rancindu&amp;lt;span id=x5a /&amp;gt;[[#x5b|[5]]] jubme .i seldandu lo vrici to&#039;erninda&#039;i noi mi na djuno zo&#039;e ke&#039;a .i selzvati ji&#039;ipano zutse remna .i srotanxe loi ckafi lei mudri .i vrici .i mi visyfacki fi pa lo poi loi remna na zutlamji ke&#039;a ku&#039;o jubme goi ko&#039;a .i mi co&#039;a zutlamji ko&#039;a .i ko&#039;a lamji le nunjupca&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=x6a /&amp;gt;[[#x6b|[6]]] .i le jukpa cu selviska gi&#039;e jupfinti de.a&#039;ucu&#039;i .i mi pensi.a&#039;e loi selpinxe&amp;lt;span id=x7a /&amp;gt;[[#x7b|[7]]] co ckafi.au .i ckafypanci fi mi.ui .i ckafypanci .i .ui.o&#039;u .i sriku&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x1b /&amp;gt;[[#x1a|1.]] Mark: &amp;quot;I am-at the door-place [doorway] and am-a-smell-receptor-of [smell-emitted-by] mass-of coffee [smell being] x1&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Whoa! Took me a long while to work out how that works. The sentence seems to be redundant, but somehow manages actually to sensibly bind &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;, making an existential claim at the same time. Confusing, but very clever, and rather uniquely lojbanic.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x2b /&amp;gt;[[#x2a|2.]] Mark: I believe that &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; gets unbound between sentences (except at ijeks [I+JE]), so you should either have an &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; there or use some other sort of anaphora to get the smell. You could probably just ellipsize it entirely and get the meaning across fine.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo responds: Didn&#039;t think of that (being too smug having put together the previous bridi). &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; is actually quite good here.&lt;br /&gt;
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Didn&#039;t want to ellipsize. Definitely not. The smell was the thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x3b /&amp;gt;[[#x3a|3.]] Colin: &amp;quot;jbustu&amp;quot; - I guess I understand, but I don&#039;t find it obvious. ?xu zo jbustu cu sinxa le pagbu be le dinju be&#039;o poi stizu lo jubme&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo responds: go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x4b /&amp;gt;[[#x4a|4.]] Mark: Not sure what &amp;quot;ctacarna&amp;quot; really implies, but I get the gist.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo responds: Did a lot of word juggling to arrive at &amp;quot;ctacarna&amp;quot;. Not much physical turning, except perhaps the head, a quick wandering look takes in the scene (or an almost stationary stare, the scanning being done mainly mentally).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x5b /&amp;gt;[[#x5a|5.]] Colin asks: loi rancindu ki&#039;a (Don&#039;t understand &amp;quot;soft oak&amp;quot;) Veijo responds: The original Description #2 from LogFest/Lojbab called for that.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x6b /&amp;gt;[[#x6a|6.]] Mark: &amp;quot;event-of-cooking volume&amp;quot;? Maybe &amp;quot;jupkumfa&amp;quot;? It is a room, after all, isn&#039;t it? Not sure the &amp;quot;nun-&amp;quot; is necessary, but it&#039;s not badly placed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Veijo: First I had &amp;quot;(nun)jupkumfa&amp;quot; but then wanted to have just the space, not to imply separation at this stage. More lojbo :)&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Hrrm. Still seems a little weird to me, but you&#039;re probably absolutely right here.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x7b /&amp;gt;[[#x7a|7.]] Iain: Whether you use &amp;quot;le pinxe&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le se pinxe&amp;quot;, you are still using &amp;quot;pinxe&amp;quot;, with all its connotations. &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot; zu&#039;unai is a lujvo, obviously derived from &amp;quot;pinxe&amp;quot;, and with a closely associated meaning, but with potentially a definition of its own, which may have a completely different emphasis. So &amp;quot;lo se pinxe&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;something which is drunk&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;lo selpinxe&amp;quot; could well be &amp;quot;a beverage&amp;quot;. dikyjvo considerations would give &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot; the same place structure as &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot;, no doubt, but the connotations need not be the same. There is still scope for ambiguity, but within a somewhat different range of meanings.&lt;br /&gt;
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But at the moment, we don&#039;t have a full, or even a partial, dictionary. We don&#039;t have any lujvo definitions. So while we may guess that someone means something slightly different by &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot; as distinct from &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot;, we can&#039;t be sure exactly which facet of the meaning of &amp;quot;pinxe&amp;quot; is intended to be emphasised. These are details which will have to be worked out gradually over a period of time.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Iain is right. In fact, the place structure subtly changes too (too subtly for dikyjvo). There is a second place of &amp;quot;selpinxe&amp;quot;, but it corresponds to the second place of cidja (loi ka&#039;e pinxe), and not of &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot; (lo ca&#039;a pinxe). I think this aspect of lujvo place structures, which we haven&#039;t paid attention to in the past, but which is, I feel, coming through in a few of the place structures I&#039;m postulating, in determining which places get turned off (for example, a dinsro (money-store = treasury) has no container important to definition, whereas a dicysro (electricity-store = battery) has no location important to definition, so those respective places are turned off - remember &amp;quot;xo&#039;o&amp;quot; in last October&#039;s discussions?), will come back to haunt us when we try to tackle lujvo properly. I don&#039;t think that time is quite yet. But thanks to Iain and Mark for pointing it out; we will be wary.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Aside: I was troubled by the fact that &amp;quot;le na&#039;o se pinxe ckafi&amp;quot; seems to mean &amp;quot;thing-described-as-being: typically: drunk-thing type-of coffee&amp;quot;, i.e. something that is typically drunken coffee, with the &amp;quot;na&#039;o&amp;quot; applying to the whole of the following tanru. To my horror, I found that I couldn&#039;t restrict the &amp;quot;na&#039;o&amp;quot; to the &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot;. I thought of putting ke/ke&#039;e around &amp;quot;na&#039;o se pinxe&amp;quot;, but that&#039;s not grammatical, and putting it around just &amp;quot;se pinxe&amp;quot; didn&#039;t accomplish anything. I suppose I could have done it with &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;, but that doesn&#039;t seem like a very general answer, and it would change its place-structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: &amp;quot;na&#039;o&amp;quot; and other tense words are intended to logically apply to a whole bridi and cannot easily be restricted to a part of the selbri. I&#039;m not all that sure what the semantics of such a restriction would be. If you want the effect of &amp;quot;na&#039;o&amp;quot; or some other tense/modal on a part of a selbri, you should do it via tanru, using the gismu/selbri equivalent, in this case perhaps &amp;quot;cnano&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;cnano se pinxe ckafi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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For some of these modals, where there may be some question whether the gismu necessarily captures the same sense as a tense would, we are assigning rafsi to the tense cmavo as part of the rafsi retuning. This would also allow you a smaller referent than the whole selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
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The grammar changes being proposed will eliminate the option to put a separate tense on the part of a selbri after the &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;. Allowing that was an error in the grammar implementation, since, as you have noted, there is no non- &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; equivalent, and the purpose of &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; does not include adding new options to selbri, only inverting them for emphasis or place structure convenience.&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain: I was going to suggest using a gismu, but I couldn&#039;t find one that fitted the bill. But you can bind the tense into the selbri with &amp;quot;be&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
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 le se pinxe be na&#039;o ku ckafi&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Yes, that&#039;s very good. Thanks, Iain. It&#039;s a little clumsy that it has to be preposed like that, but not really. That was what I was looking for.&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain: When I wrote this, I thought either &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;be&#039;o&amp;quot; was necessary - I&#039;m not sure now - but I suspect it helps human parsers.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Hmmm. Apparently neither is necessary, though that isn&#039;t obvious to the human reader at first glance. Best to keep them in, for a little extra redundancy.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Nick&#039;s text with rough translation and commentary ===&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi se lidne la vei,on. ba&#039;acu&#039;i lenu nerkla le la loblaz. kafybarja .i mi sutra joiku&#039;i.o&#039;a banli cadzu pa&#039;o la&#039;ele cravro noi tilju je jadycau .i lenu mi pu kargau le vorme cu mlirocnandu gi&#039;e sacri&#039;a lenu mi catke .i le te vorme cu se gusni lo lecydo&#039;i milxe gi&#039;e se kufra cmalu .i panomei sa&#039;enai.a&#039;acu&#039;i loi jubme .i mi zutse ne&#039;a lo na&#039;e se tsejbi jubme {poi diklo le kumfa kojna gi&#039;e stula&#039;i le vorme ku&#039;o} gi&#039;e catlu loi zvapre .iza&#039;a la vei,on. zutse vi le ragve kojna gi&#039;enaipe&#039;i zvaju&#039;o&amp;lt;span id=x8a /&amp;gt;[[#x8b|[8]]] mi .i ra zanfri&lt;br /&gt;
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.i&#039;e.o&#039;enai loi panci be loi vi ckafi&amp;lt;span id=x9a /&amp;gt;[[#x9b|[9]]] .i mi zmanei loi tcati gi&#039;e.o&#039;o.aucu&#039;i denpa lenu lo djabe&#039;ipre cu jundi mi .i milxe savru gi&#039;e ruble nungei .iku&#039;i mi cabdei me ®lu .i&#039;inai li&#039;u¯ vau.u&#039;uru&#039;ero&#039;a&amp;lt;span id=x10a /&amp;gt;[[#x10b|[10]]] .i lei bitmu cu se jadni loi carmi bo vrici joi na&#039;e simlanxe be ja&#039;i le tcaci .i le re cpare ka&#039;amru poi simkruca se punji fi le cravro gapru na minrysarxe&amp;lt;span id=x11a /&amp;gt;[[#x11b|[11]]] .u&#039;iru&#039;e .i na go&#039;i fa loi drata ke bitmu se punji ne mu&#039;u lo dembi poi vreta lo kicne ku&#039;o jo&#039;u lo slabu tcityta&#039;o ne secu&#039;u ®lu vi xagrai loi tauzba pe levi tcadu li&#039;u¯ ge&#039;ujo&#039;u lo befydai noi te ciska zo sindereluud. .i mi ca jundi le jbusfe pe mi .i te ciska so&#039;ida ne bau la lojban. e la bangrnesperanto .e le glibau .e .ueru&#039;e le dotco .i le dotco cu se ciska ta&#039;i la fraktur .i mi xebni la fraktur .i mi djica {lenu ciska fi le jbusfe fe ®lu mi la fraktur xebni mi&#039;e kilrois. li&#039;u¯ kei} gi&#039;enai ca ponse lo ve ciska befi loi mudri .i mi ka&#039;e lebna lo cpare ja bisli kilmru le zunle bitmu .i mi co&#039;i morji le xajmi pe lei bisli kilmru jgari relcisyge&#039;upre .iku&#039;i lenu le xajmi cu jboselsku na se snada mi .isemu&#039;ibo mi pensi sanga le se finti be la suZAN.vegas.be&#039;o pe me&#039;e ®lu le la tom. gusta li&#039;u¯ .i lenu go&#039;i cu se dicra lenu lo djabe&#039;ipre noi .uacu&#039;i xindo cu klama mi gi&#039;e cisma bacru ®lu cticpe ?ma doi lojbo ga&#039;icu&#039;i li&#039;u¯ .i mi co&#039;a se spaji catlu le be&#039;ipre .i mi nelci le be&#039;ipre .i mi mutce nelci co se trina le be&#039;ipre ja&#039;e lenu mi na spuda ri .iseki&#039;ubo ri cmila joiku&#039;i milxe bo se fanza bacru ®lu be&#039;ebe&#039;e xaupre zo&#039;o ctidji ja pixydji ?ma li&#039;u¯ .i mi spuda bacru ®lu je&#039;eki&#039;e pendo .u&#039;u si ba&#039;edo&#039;u.u&#039;u .u&#039;ise&#039;i go&#039;i lo tcati li&#039;u¯ .i le be&#039;ipre goi ko&#039;a cu bacru ®lu go&#039;i lo tcati pe le&#039;a ?ma li&#039;u¯ .i mi ®lu .aicu&#039;i do ?ma stidi li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a ®lu .e&#039;a la kukytcat. noi vi purlamrai terve&#039;u li&#039;u¯ .i mi ®lu .i&#039;e ko bevri le la kukytcat. tcati li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a bacru ®lu baziba&#039;o go&#039;i .oinai li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;e cliva mu&#039;i lenu bevri nagi&#039;e tavla lo drata zutse .ipujecabo lu&#039;i le jukpa kuce le patlu&#039;i lu&#039;u nevi le jupku&#039;a cu cladu joi selzdi dabysnu .i le jukpa cu so&#039;uroi batkla gi&#039;e te jivrei le se casnu fo lei zvati .i.aucai mi na ve preti .i le barjyjatna noi dasni lo jikri&#039;i taurgunma ca tavla la vei,on. .i mi xance rinsa la vei,on. i ko&#039;a spuda rinsa gi&#039;e nupre lenu bazi kansa mi kei mi .i loi cnino cu nerkla gi&#039;e cladu rinsa loi no&#039;e cnino noi na&#039;oca&#039;o te lisri .i mi na .ai cabdei ve lisri .i mi .e&#039;icu&#039;i cabdei xebni la fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
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Free translation of Nick&#039;s text into English.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve been preceded by Veijo in entering Cafe Loblaz. I swiftly and yet grandly make my entrance through the front door, which is heavy and plain. Opening the door took a bit of effort, and made it necessary to push. What is behind the door is illuminated by mild afternoon light, and is comfortably small. There&#039;s about ten tables, I dunno. I sit at a table with no one by it, in the corner and next to the door, and look at the people here. I see Veijo sitting in the opposite corner, and I don&#039;t think he&#039;s noticed I&#039;m here. He&#039;s getting high on the coffee smells. I prefer tea, and I&#039;m waiting - not that anxiously - for a waiter to notice me. There&#039;s some noise and a bit of merriment. But today, I&#039;m feeling private - uh, sorry about that. The walls are decorated by miscellanies, unharmonious by the usual standards. The two climbing axes above the front door aren&#039;t quite symmetrical. Nor are the other objects on the walls - a pea on a cushion, for example, an old signboard saying &amp;quot;Best Tailor in the Whole Town&amp;quot;, and a belt with &amp;quot;Cinderelwood&amp;quot; written on it. I look at the table-top where I&#039;m sitting. It&#039;s been inscribed with lots of stuff, in Lojban, Esperanto, English, even German. The German stuff is in Fraktur script. I hate Fraktur. I want to write &amp;quot;Kilroy woz here and hates Fraktur&amp;quot;, but I haven&#039;t got something to write on wood with. I could take an ice-pick or climbing-pick from the wall to my left. I recall the joke about the ice-pick wielding bisexuals, but it doesn&#039;t go into Lojban too well. So I start mentally singing Suzanne Vega&#039;s Tom&#039;s Diner. I am interrupted by a waiter, Indian I suppose, who comes to me and says, smiling: &amp;quot;What&#039;ll ya have to eat, Lojban-lover?&amp;quot; I look at the waiter, surprised. I like the waiter. I really like the waiter. I&#039;m so attracted to the waiter, I forget to answer. So s/he says, laughing but a bit annoyed, &amp;quot;Hello? Earth to Goodfellow Lojbanist? What&#039;ll ya have to eat or drink?&amp;quot; I answer &amp;quot;I hear you, and thank you, friend (shgeez) - Oh, not shgeez about you, shgeez about not answering; what a klutz I am! :) I&#039;ll have tea.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;What kind of tea?&amp;quot; &amp;quot;shrug What do you recommend?&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Oh, you could have a Tasty-T; it&#039;s our most recent purchase.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;OK, get us a Tasty-T.&amp;quot; The waiter says &amp;quot;Consider it done&amp;quot;, and leaves, not to get it, but to talk to other patrons. While this has been going on, the cook and the dishwasher in the kitchen have been loudly and enthusiastically arguing. The cook occasionally comes out and asks the patrons for their opinion about the topic he&#039;s debating. I really don&#039;t want to be asked. The manager, wearing a suit, is talking to Veijo. I wave at Veijo; he waves back and promises me he&#039;ll be with me in a moment. New people enter and loudly greet those already there, who are typically telling stories. I don&#039;t feeling like being told any stories today. Today, I feel like hating Fraktur.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x8b /&amp;gt;[[#x8a|8.]] Lojbab: You used &amp;quot;zvaju&#039;o&amp;quot; and Sylvia guessed your intent from context. Suggested to use &amp;quot;zgana&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;jundi&amp;quot; as the major basis of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Possibly, though I think &amp;quot;zvaju&#039;o&amp;quot;, or at most &amp;quot;nunzvaju&#039;o&amp;quot;, is clear.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=x9b /&amp;gt;[[#x9a|9.]] Lojbab: &amp;quot;He&#039;s getting high on the coffee smells&amp;quot; - No one in the Tuesday night group could figure out anything about what you were trying to convey with that attitudinal, even after checking the English. There&#039;s no &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot;, so this is your attitude, and I see no semantic suggestion of &amp;quot;high&amp;quot; even if I assume the &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; was supposed to be there. Explanation?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: The &amp;quot;.o&#039;enai&amp;quot; means I don&#039;t empathise, because that&#039;s what I take emotional closeness to mean.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Regarding &amp;quot;high&amp;quot;] The translation was a bit loose? :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Closeness can be related to empathy, but I&#039;m not sure it is the same thing, at least in the sense that you used, I mean expressed, it. I can feel emotionally close to someone without necessarily sharing their feelings about something else. And emotional distance seems to me rather more like aloofness than an absence of empathy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=x10b /&amp;gt;[[#x10a|10.]] Mark: I like [this]. Very good use of &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. Not sure what you&#039;re repenting of, but you don&#039;t have to say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I was regretting being such a misery-guts to the audience, instead of getting on with the job of navigating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: &amp;quot;private&amp;quot; - was there a reason for not using &amp;quot;sivni&amp;quot; or a lujvo thereon, which is intended to be associated with this attitudinal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I was unaware of it. The word would have to be &amp;quot;sivyci&#039;o&amp;quot;, and not &amp;quot;sivni&amp;quot;. But I think me+UI is a powerful construct, worth preserving.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=x11b /&amp;gt;[[#x11a|11.]] Lojbab: did you consider &amp;quot;lanxe&amp;quot; vs &amp;quot;sarxe&amp;quot;. The English suggests the former and the minra was a bit confusing. Doesn&#039;t anyone like &amp;quot;dukti&amp;quot;? (dukti-mapti lanxe/sarxe?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: &amp;quot;minra&amp;quot; will have to be there because the equilibrium is one of reflection same-ness. &amp;quot;lanxe&amp;quot; is clearly better than &amp;quot;sarxe&amp;quot;, and maybe &amp;quot;te minra&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;minra&amp;quot;, but any expression for symmetrical will have to have a wild metaphor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Veijo&#039;s Second Text ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
 ({&amp;lt;le  [(la veion) (ckafybarja    {srinuntroci          &amp;lt;[xi    re]  &lt;br /&gt;
    The      veion   coffee+tavern  story+event-of+tries   -sub- 2    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
[xi    re]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
 -sub- 2                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o  {&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[mi   ({penzutse       o&#039;u                &lt;br /&gt;
})]                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
    _                        Me     cogitates+sits (Ahh! Relaxing!)   &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i [to&#039;erninda&#039;i            ({fa  &amp;lt;le  [mi   jubme]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;               &lt;br /&gt;
.  Opposite-of-+new+object   x1=  the  me   table                     &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;ciska     [(da           {le  jbusfe       })]&amp;gt;} { ije  } {mi      &lt;br /&gt;
.  Inscriber   something #1  the table+surface        ; and   me      &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;catlu    [(da           a&#039;u        )]&amp;gt;}) i (lerfu  {&amp;lt;la [fraktur ue  ]&amp;gt;})]                                                                 &lt;br /&gt;
 looks at   something #1 (interest!)      .  Letter       fraktur (What!)                                                               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i [mi   (morji     {&amp;lt;fi  [loi             (lerfu  {be &amp;lt;la fraktur&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me    remembers   x3=  the mass of all  letter  of     fraktur     &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;morji    &amp;gt;} i {mi   &amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;pu       zu         &amp;gt; ki} zvati     )     ({le  ckule })]                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
.  Remembers   .  Me        before , a long time  :   present at        the school                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e [({ caca&#039;a      } tcidu )]&amp;gt;})                                    &lt;br /&gt;
and      currently is  reader                                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i (mi   {tcidu  &amp;lt;[le  (cfika   {be &amp;lt;le  [(ze) bruna  ]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;bei [(la     &lt;br /&gt;
.  Me    reader   the  fiction  of  the   7   brother    of           &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
{aleksis kivis}) (po&#039;u     {le  natmytercfi                })]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
 aleksis kivis    which is  the ethnos+3rd-place-of+fiction           &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
i [(le  {&amp;lt;poi  [(le  {drata      &amp;lt;be mi  &amp;gt;}) cu        (tcidu         &lt;br /&gt;
.   The   that   the  other than  of me      (is/does)  reader        &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
{&amp;lt;fi  ke&#039;a     &amp;gt;})] ku&#039;o&amp;gt; selpapri         }) cu                      &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  x3= he/she/it     ,     2nd-place-of+page   (is/does)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
({te           prina  } {&amp;lt;loi             [lerfu  (be {la antik})]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  3rd place of printer    the mass of all  letter  of     antik&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;[le  (mi   {selpapri          &amp;lt;goi   ko&#039;a&amp;gt;})] [(te&lt;br /&gt;
.   The  me    2nd-place-of+page  alias it-1       3rd place of&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
prina  ) ({loi             &amp;lt;lerfu  [be (la fraktur)]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
printer    the mass of all  letter  of     fraktur&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i {&amp;lt;le  [nu       (tcidu  {&amp;lt;de           [pe  (ta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
.   The  event of  reader   something #2  of   in form&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{la fraktur})]&amp;gt;}) kei]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(pu     nandu    ) (mi  )] gi&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
    fraktur       ,        before difficult   me     and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[(ca               frili)]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
  at the time (of) easy&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i (mi   {djica   &amp;lt;[(le  {nu       &amp;lt;tcidu  [(fi  ko&#039;a)]&amp;gt; kei}) (mu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
.  Me    desires    the  event of  reader   x3= it-1    ,      because&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{le  &amp;lt;nu       [(le  {mi   patfu }) ({&amp;lt;pu     zu           &amp;gt; prina  }&lt;br /&gt;
 the  event of   the  me   father      before , a long time  printer&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{&amp;lt;[loi             lerfu ] [loi             (ko&#039;a papri)]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
   the mass of all letter   the mass of all  it-1 page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i [(le  {mi   patfu }) ({ze&#039;u                prina  })]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.   The  me   father     for an eon (during) printer&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;[(le  {&amp;lt;nu       [ri   (go&#039;i      )] kei&amp;gt; nanca   }) (li {&amp;lt; vobi&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
.    The   event of  it    , the same   ,    in years    the number 48&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i {&amp;lt;[ki ku] mi  &amp;gt; &amp;lt;catlu    [(le  {vi        &amp;lt;lerfu  [be (la fraktur)]&amp;gt;})]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
.    :      me     looks at   the  here (at)  letter  of     fraktur&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i (lerfu )] i [(bacru  ue     ) ({zo             coi  })]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.  Letter   .   Utters (What!)    quote-unquote: hello&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;[barjyjatna     a&#039;a             ]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
.   Tavern+captain (I&#039;m attentive!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i {&amp;lt;la nitcion&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(co&#039;a        va        ) (se&lt;br /&gt;
.      nitcion     on starting there (at)   2nd place of&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
zvaju&#039;o         )] [mi  ]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
present-at+knows    me&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i (ra   {&amp;lt;xance rinsa  &amp;gt; &amp;lt;mi  &amp;gt;})] [ ije  ] [mi   ({spuda    rinsa })]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.  It     hand  greeter   me         ; and   me     responds greeter&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i &amp;lt;[la nitcion] [({ caca&#039;a      } xebni) ({la fraktur})]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
.      nitcion      currently is  hater       fraktur&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Commentary on Veijo&#039;s 2nd text ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le la vei,on. ckafybarja srinuntroci xire xire&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi penzutse.o&#039;u .i to&#039;erninda&#039;i fa lemi jubme .i ciska da le jbusfe .ije mi catlu da.a&#039;u .i lerfu la fraktur.ue .i mi morji fi loi lerfu be la fraktur. .i morji .i mi puzuki zvati le ckule gi&#039;e caca&#039;a tcidu .i mi tcidu le cfika be le ze bruna bei la .Aleksis.kivis. po&#039;u le natmytercfi .i le poi le drata be mi cu tcidu fi ke&#039;a ku&#039;o selpapri&amp;lt;span id=1a /&amp;gt;[[#1b|[1]]] cu te prina loi lerfu be la antik. .i lemi selpapri goi ko&#039;a te prina loi lerfu be la fraktur. .i lenu tcidu de pe ta&#039;i la fraktur. kei pu nandu mi gi&#039;e ca frili .i mi djica lenu tcidu fi ko&#039;a kei mu&#039;i lenu lemi patfu puzu prina loi lerfu loi ko&#039;a papri .i lemi patfu ze&#039;u prina .i lenu ri go&#039;i kei nanca li vobi .i kiku mi catlu le vi lerfu be la fraktur. .i lerfu .i bacru.ue zo coi .i barjyjatna.a&#039;a .i la nitcion. co&#039;ava se zvaju&#039;o&amp;lt;span id=2a /&amp;gt;[[#2b|[2]]] mi .i ra xance rinsa mi .ije mi spuda rinsa .i la nitcion. caca&#039;a xebni la fraktur.&amp;lt;span id=3a /&amp;gt;[[#3b|[3]]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=1b /&amp;gt;[[#1a|1.]] Nick: We are going to see a lot of preposed relatives, I predict, simply because they kill off a lot of the worry about terminating them when postposed. They are not just an affectation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=2b /&amp;gt;[[#2a|2.]] Nick: Nice to see one&#039;s dikyjvo picked up :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=3b /&amp;gt;[[#3a|3.]] Nick: Brilliant ending. I mean... so wonderfully deadpan. You&#039;re getting quite good at this :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Iain&#039;s first text, with rough translation and commentary ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
®lu .ie.a&#039;a .ie.o&#039;onairu&#039;e (cu&#039;usa&#039;a mi noi caki vilkla zo&#039;a le vorme&amp;lt;span id=4a /&amp;gt;[[#4b|[4]]] fi&#039;o te mlixra le janco ku&#039;o) sera&#039;a ?ma pezyjicla&amp;lt;span id=5a /&amp;gt;[[#5b|[5]]] li&#039;u¯ .i mi vi le zdani pu zutse co cando .icabo mi terbei lo notci poi ve cusku le se du&#039;u lu&#039;o la vei,on. joi la nitcion. lu&#039;u goi ko&#039;a noi zvati le kafybarja po&#039;u la *jbolaz. cu djica lenu penmi mi vi ra .i ®lu ?ma ?mo li&#039;u¯ na se spuda .i ko&#039;a jundi casnu la fraktur. .i mi zo&#039;u la fraktur. no&#039;e cinri .i mi co&#039;a zutse ne&#039;a lo jubme poi lamji le me ko&#039;a&amp;lt;span id=6a /&amp;gt;[[#6b|[6]]] ku&#039;o gi&#039;e denpa lenu se zvaju&#039;o da no&#039;u ga ko&#039;a gi lo selfu noida&#039;i bevri loi ckafi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi jubme cu xekri seja&#039;e loni to&#039;ercitno .i ra ve srakysku zo mi ce&#039;o prami bu ce&#039;o ®lu le cmacrnalgebra li&#039;u¯ .i mi nelci le jubme .i mi de&#039;a morji fi la vei,on. .e la nitcion. gi&#039;e co&#039;a pensi .i mi si&#039;a se cinri so&#039;a klesi be lo sinxa ciste ra&#039;anai ledu&#039;u vo&#039;e ge&#039;ikau te javni mu&#039;u le sucta cmacrnalgebra gi mecritli mu&#039;u loi rarna ja rutni bangu&amp;lt;span id=7a /&amp;gt;[[#7b|[7]]] .i la&#039;edi&#039;u mukti lenu mi tadni la lojban. kei noi ki&#039;u ke&#039;a mi zvati la jbolanzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
no&#039;i lo be&#039;ipre cu klama co veirgau lemi selcpe po&#039;u lo barda carmi bo ckafi gi&#039;ebabo nalsirkla mo&#039;ize&#039;oku na&#039;e mo&#039;ifa&#039;a le jupku&#039;a .i .uaru&#039;e simlu fa lenu ko&#039;a ze&#039;apu naje ca zvaju&#039;o mi .i mi&#039;a simxu rinsa .i la&#039;aru&#039;e mi bazi facki le krinu be lenu sutrygau&amp;lt;span id=8a /&amp;gt;[[#8b|[8]]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;OK, OK!&amp;quot;, I say, barging through the door, bruising my shoulder, &amp;quot;What&#039;s all the fuss about?&amp;quot; I was sitting at home quietly, when I got a message saying that Veijo and Nick, who are at the Cafe *Jbolaz, want to see me there. &amp;quot;What&#039;s up?&amp;quot; - no reply. They are deep in a discussion about Fraktur. Me? I can take it or leave it. I sit down at a table next to theirs and wait for someone to notice me, either them or one of the people serving who might bring me some coffee.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My table is dark with age. On it is carved &amp;quot;I&amp;quot;, a heart, and &amp;quot;algebra&amp;quot;. I like this table. I forget about Veijo and Nick and start to ponder. I too am interested in all kinds of symbolic system, whether formal ones like abstract algebra, or more flexible ones such as natural and artificial languages. That&#039;s the reason I&#039;m studying Lojban, which is why I&#039;m at the &amp;quot;*Jbolaz&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A waiter comes and takes my order for a large, strong coffee, and wanders off, not heading for the kitchen. Ah, it looks like they&#039;ve spotted me at last. We say hello. Perhaps now I&#039;ll find out the reason for all the rush.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=4b /&amp;gt;[[#4a|4.]] Colin: &amp;quot;le vorme&amp;quot; - I am still not clear whether &amp;quot;vorme&amp;quot; means a bit of wood etc., or a hole, or both. We often use it as if it means the first - if so, then &amp;quot;le vorme&amp;quot; is certainly not what you mean here!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: I believe &amp;quot;vorme&amp;quot; is a doorway, rather than a piece of wood. I don&#039;t see why the piece of wood can&#039;t be a &amp;quot;vrogai&amp;quot; (doorway lid).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: It is the doorway that is intended in the gismu, but not in the sense of &amp;quot;door frame&amp;quot;. The new place structure for &amp;quot;vorme&amp;quot; has a place structure suggestive of route, emphasizing the two sides it connects, while noting that it is also within some larger structure, and hence not just any route. By comparison, &amp;quot;canko&amp;quot; emphasizes the wall in which it is found. I like &amp;quot;vrogai&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;vroca&#039;o&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;vroge&#039;u&amp;quot; for the cover and opening and frame, respectively. The gismu list has been clarified to reflect this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=5b /&amp;gt;[[#5a|5.]] Nick: I&#039;d prefer something more explicit than &amp;quot;pezyjicla&amp;quot;, like &amp;quot;raktu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;cuntu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I agree. This smells malglico, since there is no clear implicature as to what is being &#039;stirred up&#039; in the context. Transferring figurative uses between languages, if you must do so, should be confined to situations where the reader/- listener can clearly identify the figurative values for the place structure of the &#039;figure&#039; - in the case of &amp;quot;jicla&amp;quot; (stir), the agent/force doing the stirring, the &#039;fluid&#039; being stirred, and the utensil/implement doing the stirring. For the context given, it isn&#039;t really even clear to me that Iain wants &amp;quot;jicla&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;terjicla&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=6b /&amp;gt;[[#6a|6.]] Colin: I felt sure there was something wrong with &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, but I think you have actually invented a new idiom with which we will now doubtless be plagued.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: It&#039;s actually an attempt at a sort of metonymy. I think &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is not the way to go, I greatly prefer &amp;quot;zo&#039;epe ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. I sort of think of &amp;quot;zo&#039;epe&amp;quot; as almost like a LAhE word (of course, with different grammar) that introduces metonymy for the sumti it&#039;s on. &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot; seems dangerously close to just plain &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is the solution to metonymy - so much better than my &amp;quot;zu&#039;i pe ko&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Iain: I&#039;ve been reprimanded in the past for using &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; with a relative clause, and told to use &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;. Admittedly, I think it was a &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; relative clause, which may make all the difference. Neither &amp;quot;zo&#039;epe ko&#039;a&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;da pe ko&#039;a&amp;quot; seem to express the definiteness that I wanted. I could use &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; with a sumti, provided I insert an explicit quantifier &amp;quot;le pa da pe ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, which is starting to get out of hand for a simple concept like &amp;quot;theirs&amp;quot;. The voting is still open on this one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: Well, you have a good point. &amp;quot;zo&#039;e pe&amp;quot; is specifically anti-definite. It&#039;s good for metonymy in which you&#039;re really not trying to be specific, but are willing to be elliptical. For something like this, &amp;quot;da pe&amp;quot; would be better, but still likely wouldn&#039;t get the definiteness across. There&#039;s &amp;quot;da voi srana&amp;quot;, but that&#039;s not really worth considering as a general solution. Too long. &amp;quot;le pada pe ko&#039;a&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t seem all that bad to me, but then, in your shoes I would probably say to hell with definiteness and stick with &amp;quot;zo&#039;epe&amp;quot;. Not that that&#039;s necessarily the right thing to do. I&#039;m still less enthusiastic about &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot; than Nick is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I think &amp;quot;le me ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is fine for original Lojban, but would probably have used &amp;quot;le ko&#039;a co&#039;e&amp;quot; as a translation for English &amp;quot;theirs&amp;quot; which more matches the &#039;possessive&#039; implicature of the English. The &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; version is more vague, and could extend to include &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; as well as things belonging to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, I suspect that &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; between them handle metonymy fine, and I think better than &amp;quot;le me ...&amp;quot;. It would not be very English-like to handle &amp;quot;theirs&amp;quot; as a &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;, but it might be very lojbanic to do so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=7b /&amp;gt;[[#7a|7.]] Lojbab: Iain translates this sentence as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I too am interested in all kinds of symbolic system, whether formal ones like abstract algebra, or more flexible ones such as natural and artificial languages. &lt;br /&gt;
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There was much debate about this sentence on the net, with Iain eventually deciding to use &amp;quot;ra&#039;anai&amp;quot;. Not proposed in the discussion, and I think better and more lojbanic, is a logical connective approach. I also think that &amp;quot;all kinds of&amp;quot; is better expressed using a massifier gadri, since he is not really interested in the categories, but in the things comprising the various categories (or maybe he is a taxonomist):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: .i mi si&#039;a se cinri piso&#039;a loi sinxa ciste ju gu&#039;a te javni be mu&#039;u le sucta cmacrnalgebra be&#039;o gi mecritli be mu&#039;u loi rarna ja rutni bangu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The two &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; clauses might be more readable as parentheses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: .i mi si&#039;a se cinri piso&#039;a loi sinxa ciste ju gu&#039;a te javni (to mu&#039;u le sucta cmacrnalgebra toi) gi mecritli (to mu&#039;u loi rarna ja rutni bangu toi)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=8b /&amp;gt;[[#8a|8.]] Nick: Perhaps &amp;quot;mukti&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;sutrybai&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Iain has to decide: Does he want an explanation for the summons, or does he really want to know the motive. Having multiple words for &amp;quot;why&amp;quot; makes you really need to think about what is really sought after. &lt;br /&gt;
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=== Translation of Mark Shoulson&#039;s Text and Commentary ===&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;o vanci .icabo nalcladu ne&#039;i le ckafybarja .i le bi&#039;u remna cu klama mo&#039;ine&#039;i ra .i ko&#039;a goi ra&amp;lt;span id=9a /&amp;gt;[[#9b|[9]]] zutse ne&#039;a lo jubme .i ko&#039;a cpedu loi tcati le kafybarja se jibri .i ba so&#039;o mentu ko&#039;a se dunda loi tcati gi&#039;e co&#039;aru&#039;inai pinxe ri&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o ko&#039;a ca lenu ko&#039;a pinxe loi tcati po ko&#039;a cu zgana lenu le bi&#039;u nanmu cu se dunda lei ckafi poi ra pu cpedu ke&#039;a .ije le nanmu goi ko&#039;e cu pencu le kabri poi se nenri lei ckafi ku&#039;o le degji gi&#039;enai pinxe lei ckafi .ije mu&#039;i zo&#039;epela&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=10a /&amp;gt;[[#10b|[10]]] ko&#039;e cusku ®lu .o&#039;onai ju&#039;i do&#039;u ko lebna lei vi ckafi gi&#039;ebabo bevri fi mi fe lei je&#039;a glare ku&#039;i ckafi li&#039;u¯ le bevri be lei ckafi be&#039;o goi ko&#039;i .i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu .u&#039;u .ie ga&#039;inai li&#039;u¯ gi&#039;ebabo lebna le kabri .i ko&#039;i krefu klama gi&#039;e bevri lei ckafi vau ba so&#039;o mentu .i ko&#039;e krefu pencu le kabri .i ko&#039;e cusku ®lu .i&#039;esai ba&#039;e ti ku&#039;i cu je&#039;a glare ckafi li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;e gleki pinxe lei ckafi po ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
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no&#039;i&amp;lt;span id=11a /&amp;gt;[[#11b|[11]]] ko&#039;a zgana la&#039;eso&#039;odi&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=12a /&amp;gt;[[#12b|[12]]] .i ba so&#039;o mentu ko&#039;a tavla le bi&#039;unai selpinxe bevri goi ko&#039;i .i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .ia do pu bevri lei naldrata ckafi ta vau ?xu li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu go&#039;i .o&#039;unairo&#039;a .u&#039;uro&#039;a li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu ko .i&#039;i na jikca dunku .i mi puzuze&#039;u se jibri loinu&amp;lt;span id=13a /&amp;gt;[[#13b|[13]]] bevri loi selpinxe vi lo gusta .iseki&#039;ubo mi djuno tu&#039;a le do se zukte .i da poi prenu cu genai pinxe lei ckafi gi pencu le kabri gi&#039;e na&#039;e djica tu&#039;a lei ckafi ki&#039;u lo za&#039;i na&#039;e pe&#039;ise&#039;inai&amp;lt;span id=14a /&amp;gt;[[#14b|[14]]] glare .ije semu&#039;i loinu da minde mi lenu basti lei ckafi loi glare ckafi kei kei mi lebna lei ckafi gi&#039;e na&#039;o denpa fu&#039;i so&#039;e mentu tezu&#039;e lenu tu&#039;a lei ckafi cu glaryri&#039;a le kabri kei fo lenu krefu dunda lei naldrata ckafi .i za&#039;a do panra zukte .i la&#039;ede&#039;u ve ctuca&amp;lt;span id=15a /&amp;gt;[[#15b|[15]]] fu tu&#039;a le slabu lisri be le bebna seljibri ka&#039;u li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;i cusku ®lu le lisri ki&#039;a li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a cusku ®lu .ue do punai ?xu ve lisri fu ri li&#039;u¯ .i ®lu noroi ve lisri li&#039;u¯ .i ®lu .ai mi te lisri .i tu&#039;e ka&#039;u da&#039;i puzuki da te bende le re seljibri .i fo&#039;a goi le te bende ca le fanmo be le jeftu cu pleji le se jerna le re seljibri no&#039;u lu&#039;i le prije seljibri goi fo&#039;e ge&#039;u jo&#039;u le bebna seljibri goi fo&#039;i .i le se jerna cu rupnu li panono .ijesemu&#039;ibo fo&#039;a pleji lei jdini be ta&#039;i le pelji jdini fo&#039;e .e fo&#039;i .i fo&#039;e ckire fo&#039;a gi&#039;ebabo cliva gi&#039;e gleki ki&#039;u lenu le jdini cu se vamji li su&#039;orau .i fo&#039;i na&#039;e gleki .i cusku ®lu .o&#039;onai mi to&#039;e lazni gunka fi&#039;o te bende do ca piro le jeftu .i do pleji levi malpelji .i&#039;enaisai mi .i le&#039;o ko pleji fi mi fe le je&#039;u je&#039;a jdini no&#039;u lo sicni li&#039;u¯ .isemu&#039;ibo fo&#039;a pleji fo&#039;i lo gusminra sicni poi se fepni li mu .iseki&#039;ubo fo&#039;i gleki klama le fo&#039;i zdani tu&#039;u .i tu&#039;a di&#039;u xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u jdice nagi&#039;apubo e&#039;ucai zgana .i .ua ri&#039;a je&#039;unai ka&#039;u le sego&#039;i zo &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot; noi cmavo fi lesi&#039;o zgana ku&#039;o cu rafsi zo zabna li&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=16a /&amp;gt;[[#16b|[16]]]¯&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark&#039;s translation uses Lojban pronouns to preserve the gender-free qualities of his Lojban&amp;lt;span id=17a /&amp;gt;[[#17b|[17]]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was quiet in the coffeehouse one evening, and a person (ko&#039;a) came in. ko&#039;a sat at a table and ordered tea from the cafe employee. After a few minutes, ko&#039;a was given some tea and began sipping intermittently at it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As ko&#039;a was sitting drinking ko&#039;a&#039;s tea, ko&#039;a saw a man being given the coffee which he&#039;d ordered. The man touched the cup that contained the coffee, but didn&#039;t drink the coffee. So he said, &amp;quot;Hey! Take this coffee back and bring me some hot coffee!&amp;quot; to the waiter (ko&#039;i).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Yes sir, sorry...&amp;quot; And ko&#039;i took the cup away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few minutes later, ko&#039;i returned carrying the cup. He (the man) touched the cup again, and said &amp;quot;Ah! Now that&#039;s some hot coffee!&amp;quot; and happily drank his coffee. ko&#039;a had seen all this happen, and several minutes later was talking to the waiter. ko&#039;a said, &amp;quot;You brought that guy the same coffee, didn&#039;t you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Um... yeah, I did...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Don&#039;t worry. I used to work as a waiter in a restaurant, so I know what you did. There are people who don&#039;t drink the coffee, they just touch the cup and don&#039;t want the coffee because they think it&#039;s not hot enough. So when they tell me to get them some fresh coffee, I just take the coffee and wait a few minutes until the coffee warms the cup and bring them the same coffee back again. And I see you&#039;ve done the same. That&#039;s really the moral of the old story about the foolish laborer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;What story?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;You never heard it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Never.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;OK, I&#039;ll tell it then. Once upon a time, there was a manager (fo&#039;a) with two workers. At the end of the week, he paid his two workers: the wise worker (fo&#039;e) and the foolish worker (fo&#039;i). Their salary was $100, so he paid them with paper money. fo&#039;e thanked fo&#039;a and left, happy because he was paid so well.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;fo&#039;i wasn&#039;t happy. &amp;quot;Look! I worked hard for you all week, and now you&#039;re paying me with this dumb piece of paper!? You better pay me with some real money, with coins!&amp;quot; So fo&#039;a paid fo&#039;i with shiny coins, worth 5 cents, and fo&#039;i went happily home.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;This all teaches that you have to look closely before passing judgement. In fact, that&#039;s why &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot;, which represents the idea of observation, is also an affix for &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot;/favourable.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=9b /&amp;gt;[[#9a|9.]] Lojbab: I&#039;m wondering why Mark waited till this sentence to assign ko&#039;a. It makes things unnecessarily more difficult on the reader to have done so, since he ends up with two &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot;s with different values only a few words apart. I don&#039;t frown on this so much with &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; which is fairly strictly confined to the next previous sumti, but &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; is loosely enough defined that one has to stop and think about whether it might or might not mean the same as the previous usage.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since he is dealing with a 3rd person narration section of a story, assigning with &amp;quot;le ... remna goi ko&#039;a&amp;quot; in the previous sentence is only fair.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=10b /&amp;gt;[[#10a|10.]] Nick: zo&#039;epela&#039;edi&#039;u is more accurate here than &amp;quot;.isemu&#039;ibo&amp;quot;, but it&#039;s still a mouthful. I&#039;m not confident about the usage of &amp;quot;ku&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: I thought &amp;quot;.isemu&#039;ibo&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t quite right, since after all, it wasn&#039;t his touching the cup, but rather what he felt that made him refuse. I&#039;m glad you saw that too. &amp;quot;zo&#039;epela&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; is a bit much to say, but not impossible. Note my &amp;quot;zo&#039;epe&amp;quot; metonymizer.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was actually proud of the &amp;quot;ku&#039;i&amp;quot; there. &amp;quot;Bring me some hot coffee (as opposed to this tepid stuff).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: How about &amp;quot;tu&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=11b /&amp;gt;[[#11a|11.]] Colin: Can anybody explain &amp;quot;no&#039;i&amp;quot; to me, please?&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: Not me. I don&#039;t know what it is either. I threw it in because I&#039;ve pretty much never seen it before and figured it deserved some exposure, and this seemed like a possible usage. I&#039;m going back to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, so it&#039;s sort of an old topic... isn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: The purpose is to allow you to change topics (&amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;), and possibly even contexts, but then to resume the old context at will with &amp;quot;no&#039;i&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;no&#039;i&amp;quot; can be subscripted, I believe, if you are dealing with many contexts). Context is typically defined in terms of a certain space-time tense reference and possibly a set of anaphora assignments.&lt;br /&gt;
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Major intended uses are for a story-within-a-story (for which the concept was invented - I&#039;ve been working on an Arabian Nights translation for a few years now, and that collection nests stories several levels deep, as characters in a story tell a story with characters who in turn tell stories, etc., continually popping from level to level with stories stopping, starting, and being interrupted for metalinguistic comment or action at a higher story level), for comparison between two situations, and a whole bunch of oddball things that happen in stylistics of longer narratives.&lt;br /&gt;
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The conventions of switching anaphora assignments (i.e. the definition of ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, da, de, etc.) or tense reference (the value assigned with &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; are not well established because &amp;quot;no&#039;i&amp;quot; has not been used much used.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other applications are certainly possible, and will have to be developed through usage. Hopefully they will be generally consistent with the originally intended purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=12b /&amp;gt;[[#12a|12.]] Mark: I don&#039;t like the way &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; only means &amp;quot;the last utterance&amp;quot;. It&#039;s bringing number considerations into Lojban where it never had them before. I&#039;d have expected it to mean &amp;quot;the last utterance(s)&amp;quot;, with optional number, like everything else. You can&#039;t always use tu&#039;e/tu&#039;u, sometimes it&#039;s used in afterthought. I had to use that hideous &amp;quot;la&#039;e joigi di&#039;ugide&#039;u&amp;quot; [in the original draft of this story], counting on &amp;quot;de&#039;u&amp;quot; to be non-number-specific. Had to use forethought because otherwise &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; would stick only to &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; and not the whole thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain: In the latest version of the grammar, LAhE applies to a whole sumti, with an explicit optional LUhU terminator, so you could use afterthought.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why not &amp;quot;[le] re di&#039;u&amp;quot; - the previous two utterances, &amp;quot;so&#039;o de&#039;u&amp;quot; - several recent utterances, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Mark liked this approach and incorporated it in the printed version.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I ask you: What is an &#039;utterance&#039;? In Lojban, an utterance can be more than a single sentence, a paragraph even, or whatever. I would think this would be familiar to net people from Cowan&#039;s method of net quotation on Lojban-List: &amp;quot;la lojbab. cusku di&#039;e&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;di&#039;e&amp;quot; is the forward counting utterance equivalent of the back-counting &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, the &#039;utterance&#039; to which &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; refers is not that well defined, and may indeed refer to multiple sentences. Grammatically, the construct labelled &#039;utterance&#039; is a single sentence or partial sentence. However, it has generally been agreed, for example, that &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; joining, or &amp;quot;.ibo&amp;quot; joining gives a logical unit (as does &amp;quot;.itu&#039;e ...tu&#039;u&amp;quot;, as you noted). Thus the concept utterance extends to be what is labelled an &amp;quot;utterance-string&amp;quot; in the grammar, or perhaps even to the construct labelled &amp;quot;text-B&amp;quot;, which can include multiple paragraphs. Now the usage default convention of &#039;utterance&#039; has tended to be a single sentence, but it need not always be so. If context suggests a longer utterance is intended, fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A possibility to consider when you are dealing with a range of sentences and don&#039;t want to count, would be to use di&#039;upezi/- di&#039;upeza/di&#039;upezu to indicate relative length of referenced utterance.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=13b /&amp;gt;[[#13a|13.]] Mark: I also replaced a lot of &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot;&#039;s with &amp;quot;loinu&amp;quot;&#039;s, though this is not common practice. I did this because of the article by JCB that was posted here not long ago, in which he pointed out that a lot of our &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot;&#039;s are really massified: you&#039;re not waiting for a specific event of a cab&#039;s arriving, you&#039;re waiting for a manifestation of the mass of such events. I thought JCB had a very good point there.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=14b /&amp;gt;[[#14a|14.]] Colin: I don&#039;t think you can use &amp;quot;pe&#039;ise&#039;inai&amp;quot; in the way that I think you are trying to. It reads &amp;quot;didn&#039;t want to drink the coffee because it was not (I think but it&#039;s not my issue) hot.&amp;quot; It seemed to me that you were trying to make it &amp;quot;... it was not (in their opinion) hot&amp;quot;, which you cannot do with attitudinals.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: I&#039;m not so sure about this. I&#039;m not 100% positive about what &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; do. Somewhere in the past someone said they could be used in this way, to tag attitudinals explicitly as belonging to the speaker or not. Oh, I remember. It was when Nick and I were discussing whether attitudinals on &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; in the x2 of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; applied to the speaker or to the x1. Actually, we were discussing it with reference to &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; then, but this was when &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; was still evolving. Lojbab said you could use &amp;quot;kause&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kause&#039;inai&amp;quot; to distinguish who was &amp;quot;knowing&amp;quot; (remember, at the time we were considering &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; as mostly just &amp;quot;known!&amp;quot;), since &amp;quot;se&#039;i&amp;quot; always made things apply to the speaker. I fear you&#039;re probably right anyway, but I hope you&#039;re wrong, since your second reading, the one I intended, is such an elegant way to say it....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Later ...] I didn&#039;t change ..., e.g. Colin&#039;s objection to &amp;quot;pe&#039;ise&#039;inai&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;in their opinion&amp;quot;, since last I heard the jury&#039;s still out on what it should mean, and I like the way it sounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Mark&#039;s usage is fairly consistent with what we had in mind for &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot;, but is vague as to who actually holds the opinion other than the narrator. Lojban intentionally makes specifically attributing emotions to others difficult (as do many natural languages), and I would prefer such comments to be metalinguistic discursives using &amp;quot;sei&amp;quot;. In this case, &amp;quot;sei da jinvi&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;sei vo&#039;a jinvi&amp;quot;, or even probably &amp;quot;sei jinvi&amp;quot; says the same thing, but makes the attribution of opinion a claim rather than an empathic understanding/attribution of emotion (which is what I see as the proper meaning of &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; modifying an attitudinal).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=15b /&amp;gt;[[#15a|15.]] Mark: I had trouble getting across the meanings of &amp;quot;this is illustrated by the old story&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the moral of this is...&amp;quot; Places of &amp;quot;ctuca&amp;quot; have done the job, and reasonably well, but maybe not very well.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=16b /&amp;gt;[[#16a|16.]] General Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
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Mark: I could use some better use of UIs, I think. My grammar gets very complex sometimes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Hm, this one is... sober. That&#039;s ok, though. We were about due for sober :) The grammatical complexity (and I presume the same is the case for my work) means that you have to read the piece slowly, but that&#039;s not impossible.&lt;br /&gt;
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Colin: Your grammar is not complex compared to some of us ... - but you let it get quite embedded, which is a little hard to read; but it&#039;s good that we are seeing a variety of different styles. Keep it up.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some of your UI&#039;s are very good, and others I disagree with.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Of the writings generated so far for this project, Mark&#039;s has by far the lowest density of lujvo, and he is sparing in the use of the more arcane cmavo, too. I think that simplicity of vocabulary, especially when there is no dictionary, more than makes up for a little complexity in the grammar. After all, if a sentence is a little complex, you can always bracket things more clearly by including a few optional terminators. But if you can&#039;t figure out what a couple lujvo in the sentence mean, you may be completely lost.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=17b /&amp;gt;[[#17a|17.]] Lojbab: On the other hand, Mark specified one gender where it doesn&#039;t seem that his story needed it: why did the person who ordered the coffee have to be a man? He could have used &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;remna&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Commentary on Iain&#039;s 2nd Piece (no translation available) ===&lt;br /&gt;
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.i bazi lenu mi&#039;a simxu lenu rinsa kuku lo nanmu poi nanca li so&#039;a cu klama pu&#039;e le na&#039;e sirji&amp;lt;span id=18a /&amp;gt;[[#18b|[18]]] ne&#039;i le barja gi&#039;e co&#039;a zutse ca&#039;u mi .i le nanmu goi ko&#039;a cusku le se du&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=19a /&amp;gt;[[#19b|[19]]] ri puzi se gunta lo puzu respa pe la&#039;o ly. saurischia ly. .i ®lu .iku&#039;i loi respa pe la&#039;edi&#039;u cu puzu ji&#039;esti li&#039;u¯ se cusku mi .i ®lu .ila&#039;aru&#039;e go&#039;i .iboku&#039;i simlu fa lenu noda ve cilre la&#039;edi&#039;u fo ra cu&#039;usa&#039;a ko&#039;a .i lenu mi&#039;a simxu lenu kansa cu nanca li reno .i mi co&#039;aki kurji ko&#039;e goi le respa ca lenu ri ca&#039;o citno .i mi jinvi ledu&#039;u le mamta be ko&#039;e cu morsi ba&#039;o lo nanca be li so&#039;o .ije cumki fa lenu ko&#039;e romoi lu&#039;i le jutsi .i le pendo be mi zu&#039;apu kurji ko&#039;e gi&#039;eku&#039;i puzi co&#039;a speni gi&#039;e gasnu lenu cfari fa lenu lanzu kuku gi&#039;e jinvi ledu&#039;u vo&#039;a na kakne lenu tu&#039;ari xamgu ko&#039;e ca lenu xamgu le lanzu&amp;lt;span id=20a /&amp;gt;[[#20b|[20]]] .isemu&#039;ibo le go&#039;i cpedu lenu mi curmi lenu basti fi lenu bilga lenu kurji ko&#039;e .i mi je&#039;a curmi .ijeja&#039;ebo kiku nu&#039;i bi&#039;ogi ca la&#039;edi&#039;u gi caku dunda loi cidja .e loi djacu ko&#039;e .ijebo satre ko&#039;e .ijebo fi lenu cadzu cu kansa fe ko&#039;e .i ca lo&#039;e vanci mi tavla ko&#039;e so&#039;i klesi be lei te cilre be&#039;o ne mu&#039;u le citri be loi jmive be va&#039;o le terdi be&#039;obe&#039;o .e loi jicmu bele saske bele munje poi vanbi ma&#039;a .i jetnu fa lenu ko&#039;e na kakne lenu tavla&lt;br /&gt;
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.ijeku&#039;iseki&#039;unaibo mi su&#039;oroi jinvi lenu ko&#039;e jimpe la&#039;e le se cusku be mi li&#039;u¯ .i ®lu .iku&#039;i ?mu&#039;ima va&#039;o la&#039;e so&#039;odi&#039;u ko&#039;e co&#039;a bradi do li&#039;u¯ .i ®lu na birti .i noda ru&#039;a&amp;lt;span id=21a /&amp;gt;[[#21b|[21]]] jimpe le stura bele menli be lei puzu respa .i seki&#039;unai la&#039;ede&#039;u mi pupuziki gasnu lenu xendo ko&#039;e .i mi&#039;a puzi klama zo&#039;a lo bende be lo xanto .ijeseki&#039;ubo mi mu&#039;i lenu djica lenu fanta lenu damba noi cumki fa lenu ke&#039;a se jalge lenu ko&#039;e se xrani cu cusku ®lu ko se kajde fi tu&#039;a le mabru li&#039;u¯ li&#039;u¯ mi&#039;e .i,n.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=18b /&amp;gt;[[#18a|18.]] Nick (on an earlier version of this): [Iain wrote:] &amp;quot;lo nanmu poi nanca li so&#039;a cu klama fo le na&#039;e sirji ne&#039;i le barja gi&#039;e co&#039;a zutse ca&#039;u mi&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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What isn&#039;t straight? The two axes? Not that obvious in context.&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain: No, it was meant to be the route (or the manner) by which he came in which wasn&#039;t straight. It sounds like this doesn&#039;t work. Perhaps I could try pu&#039;e le na&#039;e sirji.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I actually thought that the original was clear, and the modified version seems less so. The x4 of klama is a route, and a non-straight route is obviously an indirect one that is not the shortest from point a to point b. It is less clear to me what a non-straight process of going is. Perhaps meaning that he stopped to talk to people on the way. I would have used &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; though, since it isn&#039;t clear to the reader listener which indirect route/means is the one intended. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; should normally be something specifically identifiable to the listener, and if not, the speaker should be prepared to answer the clarifying question &amp;quot;leki&#039;a&amp;quot; (which?).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=19b /&amp;gt;[[#19a|19.]] Lojbab: Note that &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; refers to a fact or truth, something known or knowable, while &amp;quot;se du&#039;u&amp;quot; refers to expressions of such a fact or truth. This is being clarified in the dictionary cmavo list. &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=20b /&amp;gt;[[#20a|20.]] Lojbab (on Iain&#039;s final draft text submission for JL17): [Iain wrote:]&lt;br /&gt;
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: .i le pendo be mi zu&#039;apu kurji ko&#039;e gi&#039;eku&#039;i puzi co&#039;a speni gi&#039;e gasnu lenu cfari fa lenu lanzu kuku gi&#039;e jinvi ledu&#039;u vo&#039;a na kakne lenu tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e *gicabo le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
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This sentence is currently ungrammatical at the point indicated by an asterisk. &amp;quot;gi&amp;quot; does not bind with a tense like that - it is only a place holder. When you go from afterthought expression: &amp;quot;ko&#039;e .ecabo le lanzu&amp;quot; to forethought, we don&#039;t currently have a way to express both logical and tense connective at the same time. If we did allow it, it might have to be attached to the connective, as &amp;quot;gecabo&amp;quot;, and not to the place-holder word &amp;quot;gi&amp;quot;. After all, the idea of a forethought connective is to let the listener know the relationship between the connectands before expressing them.&lt;br /&gt;
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The easiest expression that I think captures your intended meaning is to scrap the connective and use an expanded tense clause. I made only this minimal change to make the result grammatical, but also discussed this with Nora. You might also consider expressing the final clause as:&lt;br /&gt;
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 vo&#039;a na kakne lenu roroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e gi le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
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or maybe:&lt;br /&gt;
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 vo&#039;a na kakne lenu paroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e gi le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
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or to express the negation as a tense:&lt;br /&gt;
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 vo&#039;a noroi kakne lenu paroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e gi le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
 vo&#039;a ca noda kakne lenu paroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e gi le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
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We also played with trying to move the negation down a level (which is very un-English), but I&#039;m not sure that the semantics stays intact.&lt;br /&gt;
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 vo&#039;a kakne lenu roroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ganai ko&#039;e ginai le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
 vo&#039;a kakne lenu noroi ku tu&#039;ari xamgu ge ko&#039;e gi le lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
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John Cowan will be looking at this area for a possible grammar change to allow some or all of the possible constructions of this type. It is perhaps useful for the community to note that most of the 2 dozen or so changes in the grammar are like this one would be; a minor expansion to allow something that no one ever tried before, but which seems plausibly understandable when it is tried in an actual writing.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=21b /&amp;gt;[[#21a|21.]] Nick (on an earlier version): [Iain wrote:] .i ®lu na birti .i ?ma paunai jimpe le stura bele menli be lei puzu respa&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;d rather &amp;quot;no prenu cu jimpe&amp;quot;, myself...&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain: Wot, no rhetorical questions in Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I note that the final version uses &amp;quot;noda&amp;quot; with no restriction. So Iain has actually broadened his meaning beyond Nick&#039;s assumed &amp;quot;No person understands&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Nothing understands&amp;quot;. Of course, it may be implicit to most people that the x1 of jimpe is itself sufficiently restricting.&lt;br /&gt;
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Iain&#039;s original method of expressing a rhetorical question seems valid, though at times one might want to put the &amp;quot;paunai&amp;quot; either at the front of the sentence to forewarn the listener of the rhetoric nature of the question, or to delay it, appending it to a &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; on the end of the sentence, so that the listener starts to seriously think about the question and answer, before being told that no answer is expected.&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect that the attitudinal system offers a variety of other ways to convey rhetorical statements of this type, including probably some that don&#039;t easily translate to English.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Translation and Commentary on le lisri be le serti ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora&#039;s translation follows in italics. Where Ivan intended a different translation, that is given on a third line in a different font, or in the footnotes commenting on Nora&#039;s translation.&lt;br /&gt;
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le lisri be le serti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The story of the stairs.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The Tale of the Stairs&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i fitfi&#039;i di&#039;e ro lei ba cusku be ledu&#039;u vo&#039;e vo&#039;i na srana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;Offered is the following to all who say it doesn&#039;t pertain to them.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Epigram:) &amp;quot;Dedicated to all those who will say: `This doesn&#039;t pertain to me!&#039;&amp;quot; (&#039;doesn&#039;t apply to me&#039;, &#039;has nothing to do with me&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;o tu&#039;e (non-translatable) ®lu do mo li&#039;u¯ preti fi la pacrux. goi fo&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;What are you doing/What are you?&amp;quot; asks Evil-Spirit.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;`Who art thou?&#039; asked the Devil.&amp;lt;span id=22a /&amp;gt;[[#22b|[22]]] &lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai mi bruna &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;.i .oicai ge le terdi cu to&#039;e melbi gi le remna cu to&#039;e gleki li&#039;u¯&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I&#039;m a peon by birth, and all the poorest are my brothers. Alas! The earth is ugly and the people are miserable.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I&#039;m a plebeian by birth, and all the tatterdemalions/- ragamuffins are my brethren. Oh, how ugly is the earth and how miserable are the people!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i di&#039;u se bacru lo citno nanmu noi se lafti se mebri gi&#039;e denmi se xance .i ri goi ko&#039;a sanli crane le serti .i labyxu&#039;e linji ke blabi roimrmaro ke galtu serti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;This was uttered by a young man, with raised brow&amp;lt;span id=23a /&amp;gt;[[#23b|[23]]] and dense (thick?)&amp;lt;span id=24a /&amp;gt;[[#24b|[24]]] hand. He stands in front of the stairs. Pink-lined, white marble, high stairs.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Thus spoke a young man with lifted forehead (showing proud unwillingness to conform) and clenched fists. ... a high staircase of white marble with pink veins&amp;lt;span id=25a /&amp;gt;[[#25b|[25]]].&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ko&#039;a catlu mo&#039;ifa&#039;a le darno ne di&#039;o lepu&#039;u lei grusi kalsygri be leka pindi&amp;lt;span id=26a /&amp;gt;[[#26b|[26]]] cu ca simsa be&amp;lt;span id=27a /&amp;gt;[[#27b|[27]]] loi ctaru rirxe&amp;lt;span id=28a /&amp;gt;[[#28b|[28]]] ke to&#039;ekli boxna&amp;lt;span id=29a /&amp;gt;[[#29b|[29]]] ku savri&#039;a .i diklo slilu gi&#039;e febvi fengu gi&#039;e lafti loi to&#039;e plana ke xekri birka .i le nunpante ke suksa sance .e lei fengu nunki&#039;a cu desku le vacri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He looks, his gaze moving-towards [somewhere] far, where the gray mobs of poor are, like tide-river unclear-waves, making noise (clamoring?). Shifting/agitated and boiling anger and lifting of meager, black arms&amp;lt;span id=30a /&amp;gt;[[#30b|[30]]]. The yelps (?) of protest and the cries of anger shake the air.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;His gaze was directed towards the far-away, where the grey mobs of misery were clamouring... They were agitated/in a state of ferment... The outcries of protest ...&lt;br /&gt;
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.i le te minra&amp;lt;span id=31a /&amp;gt;[[#31b|[31]]] cu simsa be lo darno ke barda terdanti sance ku masno je junri runta&amp;lt;span id=32a /&amp;gt;[[#32b|[32]]] .i lei girzu cu banro gi&#039;e klama ne&#039;i loi pelxu pulce dilnu .ije loi sepli ti&#039;otra cu mutcne&amp;lt;span id=33a /&amp;gt;[[#33b|[33]]] leka viskli ze&#039;o le kampu ke grusi vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The vantage-of-reflection, like a far artillery (?) sound, slowly and gravely dissolves (don&#039;t quite get this sentence). The groups grow and go inside yellow-dust clouds. And the separate shadow shapes vary widely in visibility as they get further from the common gray surroundings.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;... and the echo faded away slowly, solemnly, like distant cannon fire sounds ... and individual silhouettes were emerging more and more clearly against the common grey background&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o pa.o&#039;enai to&#039;ercitno&amp;lt;span id=34a /&amp;gt;[[#34b|[34]]] cu simsa be lepu&#039;u sisku leri se cirko ka citno be&#039;o ni&#039;akro be fa&#039;a le terdi ku dzukla&amp;lt;span id=35a /&amp;gt;[[#35b|[35]]] .i lo cucycau&amp;lt;span id=36a /&amp;gt;[[#36b|[36]]] cmaxli cu jgari lera&amp;lt;span id=37a /&amp;gt;[[#37b|[37]]] selxaksu taxfu gi&#039;e catlu le galtu serti sepi&#039;o lo tinbe je simsa be le rulnkentaure,a bei leka blanu ku kanla&amp;lt;span id=38a /&amp;gt;[[#38b|[38]]] .i catlu je cisma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;An old one, like a searcher for his/her lost youth, walks stooped to the ground. An unshod little girl grasps someones/ somethings worn-out clothes and looks at the high stairs with obedient&amp;lt;span id=39a /&amp;gt;[[#39b|[39]]], cornflower-blue eyes. Looking and smiling.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Some old man was coming, stooped to the ground, as though he was looking for his lost youth ... was holding his [sc. the old man&#039;s] ragged/tattered garment (in order not to get lost in the crowd)...&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi selpopseltau je grusi je cinla remtra cu trixe dzukla gi&#039;e gunma sanga lo selsno ke mrori&#039;i zgike .i da kercrori&#039;a siclu fi le ctebi .i de noi daski nenri se xance cu cmila sepi&#039;o lo cladu je rufsu voksa .ije lede kanla cu jarco leka fenki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;Rag-covered, gray, thin forms walked behind and sang together slow, funereal music (dirges?)&amp;lt;span id=40a /&amp;gt;[[#40b|[40]]]. Someone ear-splitting-ly whistled from the lips. Someone, with hands in pockets, laughed in a loud, rough voice. His eyes showed insanity.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;... Someone was whistling sharply. ... insanity was burning in his eyes.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai mi bruna .i .oicai ge le terdi cu to&#039;e melbi gi le remna cu to&#039;e gleki .i .iunai vu gapru .i .o&#039;onai li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;I am a peon by birth, and all the poorest are my brothers. Alas! The earth is ugly and the people are miserable. The high-ups - I spit on them!&amp;lt;span id=41a /&amp;gt;[[#41b|[41]]]&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i di&#039;u se bacru lo citno nanmu noi se lafti se mebri gi&#039;e dukri&#039;a denmi se xance&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;This was uttered by a young man, with raised brow and agonizingly dense hands&amp;lt;span id=42a /&amp;gt;[[#42b|[42]]].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu .io ?xupe&#039;i&amp;lt;span id=43a /&amp;gt;[[#43b|[43]]] do xebni lei vu gapru li&#039;u¯ preti fi fo&#039;a noi ca tcica krori&#039;a le xadni fa&#039;a ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Sir, do you hate the high-up?&amp;quot; asked Evil-Spirit, who slyly bowed to him&amp;lt;span id=44a /&amp;gt;[[#44b|[44]]].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;`You hate those up there?&#039; asked the Devil and leaned towards him.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu .aisai mi ba vefsfa lei vu mabla nobli joi turni .i mi ri kusru vefsfa seka&#039;i&amp;lt;span id=45a /&amp;gt;[[#45b|[45]]] leimi bruna goi ko&#039;u noi simsa be le canre bei leka pelxu ku se flira zi&#039;e noi zmadu be le la gaimast. si&#039;erbi&#039;e bei leni tepri&#039;a ku se cmoni&amp;lt;span id=46a /&amp;gt;[[#46b|[46]]] .i ko viska leko&#039;u lunbe ke ciblu ve flecu xadni .i ko tirna leko&#039;u cmoni .i .ai mi ko&#039;u venfu .i le&#039;o ko curmi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;I will have revenge on those damned royalty. I will wreak upon them a cruel vengeance on behalf of my brothers, with sand-yellow faces and who moan with more than a December-blizzard worth of scaring. See their bare, bleeding bodies. Hear their moans. I will avenge them. Just you allow it!&amp;lt;span id=47a /&amp;gt;[[#47b|[47]]] &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
Oh, I will take vengeance on those princes1 and princes2&amp;lt;span id=48a /&amp;gt;[[#48b|[48]]]. ... who moan in a more ominous/- sinister way than the December blizzards.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i fo&#039;a cisma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The spirit smiles.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu mi jibri bandu lei vu gapru .ije mi se le&#039;irbai gi&#039;anai lacti&#039;a ri li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;My job is to defend the high-up&amp;lt;span id=49a /&amp;gt;[[#49b|[49]]]. I am fined (?)&amp;lt;span id=50a /&amp;gt;[[#50b|[50]]] if I am traitorous to them.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu mi ponse no solji .i mi ponse no lo se pleji befi do .i mi pindi je selpopseltau citno .iku&#039;i mi bredi lenu pleji lemi kazyji&#039;e li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;I have no gold. I have nothing to pay you. I am a poor and rag-covered youth. But, I am prepared to pay with my life&amp;lt;span id=51a /&amp;gt;[[#51b|[51]]].&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i fo&#039;a rapli cisma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The spirit again smiles.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu .e&#039;onai ri zmadu lemi se cpadji .i do&#039;anai ko fi mi dunda leka do sanga&#039;e li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Ah, no. It is more than my get-desire(??). Give me but your hearing.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Oh, no, I don&#039;t want that much! ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu .ueru&#039;e leka mi sanga&#039;e .i .iefi&#039;i .i .e&#039;i mi noroi tirna di .i .e&#039;i li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;What?!&amp;lt;span id=52a /&amp;gt;[[#52b|[52]]] My hearing? Take it. I&#039;ll never be free&amp;lt;span id=53a /&amp;gt;[[#53b|[53]]] to hear anything. Not free ...&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My hearing? With pleasure...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ®lu do ranji leka ka&#039;e tirna&amp;lt;span id=54a /&amp;gt;[[#54b|[54]]] li&#039;u¯ .i fo&#039;a ko&#039;a papri&#039;a sepi&#039;o di&#039;u gi&#039;e cadzu curmi&amp;lt;span id=55a /&amp;gt;[[#55b|[55]]] .i ®lu ko pagre li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;You&#039;ll continue to be able to hear.&amp;quot; The spirit calmed him with this and let him walk. &amp;quot;Go through&amp;lt;span id=56a /&amp;gt;[[#56b|[56]]].&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a bikla bajra gi&#039;e dzugre ci te serti tai pa nu stapa .i ku&#039;i lefo&#039;a terkre xance ko&#039;a lacpu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He whippingly(?) ran&amp;lt;span id=57a /&amp;gt;[[#57b|[57]]], and walked through 3 steps with one stride.  But the spirit&#039;s hairy hand pulled him.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu banzu .i ko sisti mu&#039;i lenu tirna leiko&#039;u&amp;lt;span id=58a /&amp;gt;[[#58b|[58]]] vu cnita cmoni li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Enough. Stop to hear their moans far beneath.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Stop to hear how thy brethren moan down there!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a sisti gi&#039;e kerlo jundi &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He stopped and listened.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .uesai .i ki&#039;uma ko&#039;u suksa cfari lenu to&#039;edri sanga gi&#039;e xalbo cmila li&#039;u¯ .i ko&#039;a krefu ke bikla bajra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Well! What made them suddenly start singing happily and laughing lightly?&amp;quot; He again whippingly ran.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;`Strange: why did they so suddenly &amp;lt;...&amp;gt;?&#039; And he rushed again&amp;lt;span id=59a /&amp;gt;[[#59b|[59]]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a ko&#039;a krefu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;rinju The spirit again restrained him.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mu&#039;i lenu do krefu pagre ci te serti kei mi cpadji ledo kanla li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;To go another 3 steps, I want your eyes.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a pa&#039;arcau sliri&#039;a le xance&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He hopelessly shook (wrung?) the hand.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;... desperately waved&amp;lt;span id=60a /&amp;gt;[[#60b|[60]]] ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ku&#039;i va&#039;o la&#039;edi&#039;u mi na ka&#039;e viska ga leimi bruna gi leimi ba se vefsfa li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;But in that case I can see neither my brothers nor my targets&amp;lt;span id=61a /&amp;gt;[[#61b|[61]]].&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu do ranji leka ka&#039;e viska&amp;lt;span id=62a /&amp;gt;[[#62b|[62]]] .i mi fi do ba dunda lo drata kanla noi mutce zmadu li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;You will still be able to see. I give to you other eyes, which are much more.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;... other, much better eyes!&amp;quot;&amp;lt;span id=63a /&amp;gt;[[#63b|[63]]] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a rapli pagre&amp;lt;span id=64a /&amp;gt;[[#64b|[64]]] ci te serti gi&#039;e ni&#039;a catlu jundi&amp;lt;span id=65a /&amp;gt;[[#65b|[65]]] .i fo&#039;a rinka lenu ko&#039;a morji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He again went through 3 steps and looked down. The spirit reminded him:&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ko viska leko&#039;u lunbe ke ciblu ve flecu xadni li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;See their bare, bleeding bodies.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .uecai .i .u&#039;ecai cizra .i ?cama&amp;lt;span id=66a /&amp;gt;[[#66b|[66]]] binxo lenu ko&#039;u melbi dasni .i ji&#039;a seba&#039;i lei ciblu te xrani ko&#039;u se jadni loi se manci xunre rozgu&amp;lt;span id=67a /&amp;gt;[[#67b|[67]]] li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Wow! Amazing! When did they become beautifully dressed? And instead of the bloody injuries they are adorned with wondrous red roses.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My god! But this is so strange: when did they manage to dress so well! ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o vi ro lo cimoi te serti fo&#039;a di&#039;i lebna lefo&#039;a cmalu selpleji .i ku&#039;i ko&#039;a ru&#039;i cadzu .i ko&#039;a bredi dunda rodi mu&#039;i lemu&#039;e klama tu gi&#039;e vefsfa leivu malplana nobli joi turni .i .uo.ui semaunai pa te serti .i ba su&#039;epa te serti&amp;lt;span id=68a /&amp;gt;[[#68b|[68]]] ko&#039;a gapru .i ko&#039;a cabazi venfu leiko&#039;a bruna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;At each 3rd step, the spirit regularly took his little payment, but the youth went on walking. He readily gave everything to get there and get revenge on those fat royalty. Finally! Not more than&amp;lt;span id=69a /&amp;gt;[[#69b|[69]]] 1 step [left]. After only one step he&#039;ll be above. He will then avenge his brothers.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi to&#039;erno&#039;i ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije ro le pidrai sa&#039;a&amp;lt;span id=70a /&amp;gt;[[#70b|[70]]] li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;I am a peon by birth, and all the poorest...&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ju&#039;i. citno nanmu su&#039;epa te serti .i ba su&#039;epa te serti do venfu .i ku&#039;i levi te serti di&#039;i ve pleji le relpi&#039;i jdima mi .i ko fi mi dunda leka do cinmo je morji&amp;lt;span id=71a /&amp;gt;[[#71b|[71]]] li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Hey, young man&amp;lt;span id=72a /&amp;gt;[[#72b|[72]]]. Only 1 step. After only 1 step you can avenge. But, for this step I regularly&amp;lt;span id=73a /&amp;gt;[[#73b|[73]]] charge double price. Give me your emotions and memory.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Young man, only one step more! ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a sliri&#039;a le xance&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He shakes (wrings?) the hand.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu .ii leka cinmo .i .e&#039;anaicai .i dukse kusru li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Oh, no! Emotion - heaven forfend. Too cruel.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The heart? No! This is too cruel!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;a maljgira cmila ra&#039;i le galxe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The spirit haughtily laughs from the throat.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The Devil gave a guttural, authoritative laugh:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi na mela&#039;edi&#039;u kusru .i mi fi do canja dunda lo zabna kazyci&#039;o .e lo cnino kazmo&#039;i .i ga do zanru gi do noroi pagre levi te serti gi&#039;e noroi venfu leido bruna pe lo se flira be le simsa be le canre zi&#039;e pe le se cmoni be le zmadu be le la gaimast. si&#039;erbi&#039;e bei leni tepri&#039;a li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;I am not thus cruel. I trade with you for a fine emotion and a new memory&amp;lt;span id=74a /&amp;gt;[[#74b|[74]]]. Either you approve&amp;lt;span id=75a /&amp;gt;[[#75b|[75]]] or you&#039;ll never get through this step and never avenge your brothers with the sandy faces and the moans more fearful than the December blizzard.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu lefo&#039;a crino je ranxi kanla&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He looks at the spirit&#039;s ironic green eyes.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu ku&#039;i mi ba traji leni to&#039;e gleki .i do lebna ro ckaji be le kazre&#039;a mi li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;But I will be a most unhappy person. You take all humanity from me.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But I shall be the most unhappy one. Thou takest from me everything that is human&amp;lt;span id=76a /&amp;gt;[[#76b|[76]]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu to&#039;e go&#039;e .i traji leni je&#039;a gleki .i .e&#039;apei .i ?xu do tugni .i do&#039;anai&amp;lt;span id=77a /&amp;gt;[[#77b|[77]]] leka do cinmo je morji li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Just the opposite - the most truly happy man. Allow me. Do you agree? Your emotion and memory, please?&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a cu trati pensi .i lo xekri ctino cu manri&#039;a leko&#039;a flira .i loi xasne ke to&#039;ekli dirgo cu gunro zo&#039;a&amp;lt;span id=78a /&amp;gt;[[#78b|[78]]] le se cinje mebri .i ko&#039;a fengu demri&#039;a le xance gi&#039;e bacru pa&#039;o le denci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;He tries&amp;lt;span id=79a /&amp;gt;[[#79b|[79]]] to think. A black shadow covers his face. Cloudy drops of sweat roll off the wrinkled brow. He angrily clenched&amp;lt;span id=80a /&amp;gt;[[#80b|[80]]]  his fist and said through his teeth:&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
®lu .ai.e&#039;asai .i ko lebna li&#039;u¯ &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;Go ahead. Take [them].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot; &amp;quot;So be it! (Let it be! Soit! etc.) Take them!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca lenu le xekri kerfa ca biflu&#039;a kei ko&#039;a simsa be le crisa lidbi&#039;e ku fengu pagre le romoi te serti .i ko&#039;a capu snada lemu&#039;e gapru .i suksa cisma gusni leko&#039;a flira&amp;lt;span id=81a /&amp;gt;[[#81b|[81]]]  .i leko&#039;a kanla cu dirce seci&#039;o le smaji ka se mansa .i leko&#039;a xance cu luzbi&#039;o .i ko&#039;a catlu lei pixsalci nobli .i catlu le cnita be di&#039;o lenu krixa je dapma fa le grusi je selpopseltau girzu .i catlu .i ku&#039;i no sluji be leko&#039;a flira cu frati .i ri selgu&#039;i je gleki je selpu&#039;a .i ko&#039;a viska loi salci se taxfu girzu vi le cnita .i lei pu cmoni ca salpemci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;With his black hair fluttering, he, like a summer thunderstorm, angrily passes through the last step. He has now succeeded in getting above&amp;lt;span id=82a /&amp;gt;[[#82b|[82]]]. There is a sudden smile illuminating his face. His eyes radiate, emoting the silent satisfaction.&amp;lt;span id=83a /&amp;gt;[[#83b|[83]]] His hands loosen&amp;lt;span id=84a /&amp;gt;[[#84b|[84]]]. He looks at the toasting nobility&amp;lt;span id=85a /&amp;gt;[[#85b|[85]]]. Looking underneath to the crying and the cursing of the gray, ragged crowd. Looking, but not a muscle in his face reacts. It is illuminated and happy and pleased. He sees a crowd dressed for celebration below&amp;lt;span id=86a /&amp;gt;[[#86b|[86]]]. What were moans are paeans&amp;lt;span id=87a /&amp;gt;[[#87b|[87]]].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu do ?mo li&#039;u¯ tcica preti fi fo&#039;a sepi&#039;o lo rufsu voksa &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;What are you?&amp;quot; slyly asks Evil-Spirit with a rough voice.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Who art thou?&amp;quot; slyly and hoarsely asked the Devil.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ®lu mi nobli ji&#039;u leka cerda .ije lei cevni mi bruna .i .uicai ge le terdi cu je&#039;a melbi gi le remna cu je&#039;a gleki&amp;lt;span id=88a /&amp;gt;[[#88b|[88]]] li&#039;u¯&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;I am a noble&amp;lt;span id=89a /&amp;gt;[[#89b|[89]]] by birth, and the gods are my brothers. Ah!, but the earth is truly beautiful and the people are truly happy.&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;The End.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;u se finti la xristoz. smirnensk.&amp;lt;span id=90a /&amp;gt;[[#90b|[90]]] gi&#039;e se fanva la .iVAN. derJANSK. fo le banblgaria si&#039;u la nitcion. nikolas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;This was written by Christo Smirnensk, and translated by Ivan from Bulgarian aided by Nick Nicholas.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;&#039;THE END&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=22b /&amp;gt;[[#22a|22.]] Lojbab: &amp;quot;do mo&amp;quot; is elegant, but a bit vague to expect a useful answer with no context in advance to make it clear what is meant. Given the answer that was given (which is presumably the information that the Devil wanted to hear), I would ask the question as &amp;quot;do ?mo prenu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;You are a what-kind-of-person&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=23b /&amp;gt;[[#23a|23.]] Nora: Not quite sure what this is. I presume it means he had a &amp;quot;high&amp;quot; brow. Perhaps &amp;quot;clani se mebri&amp;quot; (longly be-browed)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: &amp;quot;with lifted forehead&amp;quot; (showing proud unwillingness to conform)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I am one who believes in making cultural metaphors explicit in translations, especially to a supposedly culture-neutral language (I expect that you will call me on this regularly in return, Ivan, when I fail to make my own cultural metaphors clear.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, if the lifted forehead signifies pride, include &#039;pride&#039; in the tanru: &amp;quot;jgira ke seke se lafti mebri&amp;quot;, or twisting it around for clarity in the relative clause context: &amp;quot;lo citno nanmu noi lafti le mebri seci&#039;o leka jgira&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: I thought a lifted forehead as an expression of pride was universal, not culturally sensitive, but maybe I was wrong. Ditto for clenched fists as an expression of aggressive impatience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: You may be right about the universality of the physical expressions - I have no idea. But there is cultural significance in the way each is described, which may vary between languages, and there is more than one emotion that could be symbolized. In (American), phrases like &amp;quot;head held high&amp;quot; suggest self-esteem/- personal pride, while &amp;quot;nose in the air&amp;quot; suggests hauteur. But &amp;quot;eyes lifted on high&amp;quot; suggests worship. All three of these could also be described as having a lifted forehead, but I&#039;ve never heard the forehead mentioned in an English metaphor suggesting any of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=24b /&amp;gt;[[#24a|24.]] Nora: I later figured out that this was &amp;quot;clenched&amp;quot;, but it took a while. Perhaps &amp;quot;denmi se polje se xance&amp;quot; (densely-foldedly be-handed)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: &amp;quot;fist&amp;quot; has been expressed before as &amp;quot;ball-hand&amp;quot;, so &amp;quot;fengu bolci se xance&amp;quot; (possibly making the whole or some portion into a lujvo - &#039;clenched-fist&#039; for se fegbolxa&#039;e, &#039;angry fist&#039; for fengu se bolxa&#039;e, or &#039;anger-clenched hands&#039; fegboi se xance). Again, I favor making the emotional implication (which I am assuming is correct) explicit in the tanru/lujvo. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;denmi&amp;quot; used this way in tanru will probably not catch on quickly with English-speaking readers, since we don&#039;t often use the word in its literal sense in metaphor. The validity of the tanru using denmi is thus hard to evaluate before we have a few usages of this type in the dictionary (and a few other English words besides &amp;quot;dense&amp;quot; to trigger people&#039;s consideration.) Other than that, I think &amp;quot;denmi&amp;quot; is fine especially if the &amp;quot;fengu&amp;quot; is also present, and I would not make much of the fact that no one picks up the metaphor right away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick comments further on this metaphor in a later footnote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=25b /&amp;gt;[[#25a|25.]] Lojbab: If the order of the terms in the translation is important to you, use &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; and grouping words to emphasize it: galtu serti co blabi joi labyxu&#039;e bo linji roimrmaro (high stairs of-type white-with-pink-lines marble) is one such approach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: I confess I never acquired the habit to use &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=26b /&amp;gt;[[#26a|26.]] Nick: Will &amp;quot;kalsygri be leka pindi&amp;quot; by itself imply that it&#039;s a group of people? If you accept that, then leave &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot; out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=27b /&amp;gt;[[#27a|27.]] Lojbab: This kind of long-complex &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; is why &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; is in the language &amp;quot;cu ca savri&#039;a co simsa loi ctaru rirxe ke to&#039;ekli boxna&amp;quot; is much clearer, and also seems to match the order of your intended translation better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=28b /&amp;gt;[[#28a|28.]] Lojbab: Does the sound of murky waves of a tidal river differ from the sound of any other kind of waves of a tidal river, or any other river?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: The waves are murky because of the appearance of the mobs, and the river is tidal because of their numbers. The observation that these things (especially the first one) don&#039;t affect the noise is correct, so maybe I&#039;ll extract this description from the tanru and attach it to the mobs, like so: &amp;quot;lei grusi kalsygri be leka pindi bei &amp;lt;like&amp;gt; loi ctaru rirxe ke to&#039;ekli boxna ca savri&#039;a&amp;quot;. How&#039;s that? [Lojbab: Better, but see my answer in the next footnote.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=29b /&amp;gt;[[#29a|29.]] Ivan: Bulgarian has the same word for `wave&#039; and `worry&#039;, and since the mob is something like a sea made of people, it is not clear whether this is meant in a physical or emotional sense, or both.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Then coin a lujvo based on &amp;quot;worry-wave&amp;quot; (dunku boxna) or &amp;quot;anxious-wave&amp;quot; (xanka boxna), possibly with a &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; in between the terms. It won&#039;t translate to English, but will accurately reflect the dichotomy of the Bulgarian. Actually, I think the image, in this case, would translate, even if the word did not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Combining this with the previous comments, I propose:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lei grusi kalsygri be leka pindi ca mutce savri&#039;a gi&#039;e simsa loi to&#039;ekli dukyjoibo&#039;a be loi ctaru rirxe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=30b /&amp;gt;[[#30a|30.]] Ivan: Used to be a &amp;quot;forest of dry, black arms&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: You could get the image of &amp;quot;forest&amp;quot; in there with &amp;quot;grana foldi co lafti loi to&#039;e plana ke xekri birka&amp;quot;, paralleling the image of &amp;quot;forest&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;ricfoi&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;tree-field&amp;quot;), which is the lujvo that has been most used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=31b /&amp;gt;[[#31a|31.]] Nick: I&#039;d use &amp;quot;sanselminra&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;te minra&amp;quot; (where something is reflected to) means &amp;quot;echo&amp;quot; less than does &amp;quot;se minra&amp;quot; (that which is reflected).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=32b /&amp;gt;[[#32a|32.]] Lojbab: Again a place where &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; would make the text easier to understand. I also would use &amp;quot;canci&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;runta&amp;quot;; I cannot figure out what might go in the places of &amp;quot;runta&amp;quot; for an echo dissolving: &amp;quot;... cu masno je junri canci co simsa loi darno ke barda terdanti sance&amp;quot;. (I also put a &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot; here on the cannon sounds.) I don&#039;t know about the original Bulgarian, but &amp;quot;solemn&amp;quot; to me can imply &amp;quot;somber/gloomy/sad&amp;quot; at least as much as &amp;quot;serious&amp;quot;, or at least both. Perhaps &amp;quot;jurdri&amp;quot;? in place of &amp;quot;junri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=33b /&amp;gt;[[#33a|33.]] Nick: Given that &amp;quot;zenba&amp;quot; is now intransitive, replace &amp;quot;mutcne&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;zenba&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: If &amp;quot;zenba&amp;quot; were still transitive, you would want &amp;quot;zmabi&#039;o&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;tcebi&#039;o&amp;quot;, based on &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;cenba&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=34b /&amp;gt;[[#34a|34.]] Ivan: The &amp;quot;.o&#039;enai&amp;quot; was intended to cater for him being &amp;quot;some [old man]&amp;quot;, whom no one knows or cares for.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Ivan originally used &amp;quot;slabu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;slabu&amp;quot; is defined as the &amp;quot;old&amp;quot; which is opposite of &amp;quot;new&amp;quot;, and not as the opposite of &amp;quot;young&amp;quot;. This has caused a lot of people writing in Lojban to change to &amp;quot;to&#039;ercitno&amp;quot;. This works but it seems clumsy to define &amp;quot;old&amp;quot; as an opposite. I think that with the proper value for the places, &amp;quot;slabu&amp;quot; can serve both meanings, but have apparently not been convincing. How about &amp;quot;ji&#039;ecla&amp;quot; (alive-long) or &amp;quot;ma&#039;ucla&amp;quot; (mature-long) or &amp;quot;revycla&amp;quot; (survive-long), with the latter or zatcla/za&#039;icla (exist-long), or teicla/temcla (time interval-long) serving for non-living things that have been in their current state for a long time?&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: I wouldn&#039;t replace &amp;quot;to&#039;ercitno&amp;quot; with anything else. It doesn&#039;t matter that the man has lived long. It matters that he is not young any more.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=35b /&amp;gt;[[#35a|35.]] Lojbab: Again, a &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; that should be made into a &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;. In addition, I think the old man is like a seeker, and not like a seeking and the &amp;quot;pu&#039;u&amp;quot; should go away (though Nora figured out your intent), while what he is seeking is probably the state of his being young, and not the property. Putting all this together might give: &amp;quot;... cu dzukla co ni&#039;akro be fa&#039;a le terdi be&#039;o simsa lo sisku le selcri za&#039;i vo&#039;a citno&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=36b /&amp;gt;[[#36a|36.]] Ivan: That is &amp;quot;lunbyseljma&amp;quot;, but I chose to go for the alliteration and brevity of &amp;quot;cucycau&amp;quot;. I trust it is understood as meaning the same.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=37b /&amp;gt;[[#37a|37.]] Nora: I wasn&#039;t sure which referent to use for &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot;. The possible referents are: the earth, the old one (via &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;leri se cirko&amp;quot;), his lost youth, the lost youth of the old one, the process of searching for the lost youth, and (finally) the original reference to old one himself. I didn&#039;t initially pick up the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; (in &amp;quot;leri se cirko&amp;quot;) as a countable sumti because I missed it (real easy to miss when it&#039;s compounded with the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: The old one was what I wanted. The wee lass is &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;, and the earth, the youth and the process have no garments for her to cling to.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora: I think I&#039;d have been more comfortable with picking up the original reference at the beginning of the paragraph using &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: How would that work? I&#039;m not sure I understand what you mean.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Since this is a new paragraph, &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; should not go back any further than the beginning of the paragraph. The first sumti of the paragraph is the original reference to the old one, and the obvious referent of &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot;. In addition, counting minimally based on your text would give &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to the earth and &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;leri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, a far more clear back-reference would have been &amp;quot;le go&#039;i&amp;quot; which clearly picks up the x1 of the previous sentence, the old man.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that since this anaphoric reference is occurring in the middle of an extremely picturesque set of metaphors, grasping the clothes of the earth is quite imaginable as a metaphor. Meanwhile, since Nora translated from your original text, which had &amp;quot;lo slabu&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;pa to&#039;ercitno&amp;quot;, she interpreted the old ones as plural (you had just been talking of masses and the Lojban gave no hint of sudden focus on individuals (&amp;quot;to&#039;unai&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;su&#039;anai&amp;quot; might have discursively indicated this change of detail level). Thus it might be that one girl is holding a mob of old peoples&#039; clothes, or even a mob of unshod little girls is holding onto the clothes of the old people. In comparison to these images, grasping the &amp;quot;worn-out clothes&amp;quot; of the earth does not seem that far-fetched.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of this makes it clear that &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; have rather limited usefulness unless you are dealing with simple sentences where back-counting is easy.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=38b /&amp;gt;[[#38a|38.]] Lojbab: Nora was particularly pleased with herself for figuring out &amp;quot;cornflower blue&amp;quot;, whatever that is.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: Just bright blue. Cornflowers are often mentioned in Bulgarian literature. The reader is expected to have seen many of them, which I (being a urban boy) haven&#039;t, but I know what colour they are. The reader is also supposed to guess that bright blue as an eye colour suggests innocence. This is not the case in all cultures (and in particular, not in traditional Bulgarian culture - in our folklore all eyes must be black), but that&#039;s how the author meant it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Thus adding a modifying term to the tanru and grouping terms would make the meaning clear to those who do not know the cultural implication: &amp;quot;&amp;lt;innocent- (cornflower-bo-blue)&amp;gt;-eyes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora said that the context suggested &amp;quot;cornflower&amp;quot;, and sure enough, you had used the genus name for cornflower in your le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: The full name of the plant is Centaurea cyanus. It is not all blue (the stem and leaves are green), but I hope I still can use it in this way.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Certainly, since the author did so. If there was doubt, you could specifically add &amp;quot;flower&amp;quot; after the le&#039;avla, but I suspect that the flower is the plausible referent whenever a flowering plant is used as the basis for a color. On the other hand, if you used cauliflower/- broccoli as the basis for a color description, you&#039;d have to be more specific - indeed, I think I have seen both vegetables used to describe colors in English.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=39b /&amp;gt;[[#39a|39.]] Ivan: Or &amp;quot;mild&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;meek&amp;quot; (eyes).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I might have tried &amp;quot;cumla&amp;quot; (humble), &amp;quot;fegycau&amp;quot; (anger-without), or &amp;quot;nalvli&amp;quot; (non-powerful).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=40b /&amp;gt;[[#40a|40.]] Ivan: Just a funeral song, which they were singing in a choir.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=41b /&amp;gt;[[#41a|41.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;Oh, ye up there, ye...&amp;quot; (Menace.) He&#039;s not really going to talk to them, therefore I spared the &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: It seems to me that a vocative that is not meant for the referent is expressible by &amp;quot;ju&#039;inai&amp;quot;. An alternative would be to use a prenex to achieve an impersonal topicalization. Perhaps something like: &amp;quot;levu [mal]gapru .iunai zo&#039;u do .au ve sputu .o&#039;onai&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=42b /&amp;gt;[[#42a|42.]] Ivan: No, &amp;quot;threateningly clenched fists&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;fists clenched in menace&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Maybe &amp;quot;kajde&amp;quot; should be in that tanru?&lt;br /&gt;
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The tanru with denmi doesn&#039;t seem to be working. What about &amp;quot;ja&#039;itra denmi xance&amp;quot; - grasp-form dense? (&amp;quot;jgari&amp;quot; alone implies that the youth is &amp;quot;ca&#039;a&amp;quot; grasping &amp;quot;da poi se jgari&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: If not &amp;quot;kajde&amp;quot;, then perhaps &amp;quot;capti&#039;i&amp;quot; (peril-suggesting), though &amp;quot;capyjde&amp;quot; might be better still (peril-warning).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=43b /&amp;gt;[[#43a|43.]] Ivan: It is a rhetoric question (indeed, the behaviour of the youth leaves little doubt). Maybe &amp;quot;pei&amp;quot; (`don&#039;t answer&#039;) instead of &amp;quot;pe&#039;i&amp;quot; (`I think you do&#039;)? The &amp;quot;.io&amp;quot; was a faint attempt to cater for the fact that this is the only occurrence of the formal pronoun in the tale. It doesn&#039;t really have to mean anything, and &amp;quot;Sir&amp;quot; is just a little bit too polite for its use here to be fair.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Hang on, &amp;quot;pei&amp;quot; is the attitudinal interrogative, &amp;quot;pe&#039;i&amp;quot; the opinion. What you currently have translates to me as &amp;quot;You do, don&#039;t you.&amp;quot; I think the &amp;quot;.io&amp;quot; should stay.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: &amp;quot;paunai&amp;quot;, generally before the sentence, is the marker for a question not to be answered; i.e. a rhetorical question. In this case, you could also just omit the question word and start off with &amp;quot;pe&#039;i do xebni ...&amp;quot;. I think such direct statements or rhetorical questions serve to make the &amp;quot;.io&amp;quot; rather a lesser mark of respect than it might be. Note that, in American English at least, &amp;quot;Sir&amp;quot; is commonly used to address someone you don&#039;t know the name of in a non-insulting manner, and doesn&#039;t necessarily convey a lot of respect, so don&#039;t make too much of Nora&#039;s choice of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=44b /&amp;gt;[[#44a|44.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;and leaned towards him&amp;quot;, certainly not &amp;quot;bowed to him&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Hm. I was thinking of &amp;quot;kroxadjbi&amp;quot;, but I don&#039;t think &amp;quot;krori&#039;a&amp;quot; need be taken as &amp;quot;to bow&amp;quot; - that&#039;s more &amp;quot;xadykro rinsa&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: You might need a &amp;quot;mo&#039;i&amp;quot; on that &amp;quot;fa&#039;a&amp;quot; to get the motion, and I think the &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; can then be ellipsized. &amp;quot;noi ca tcica xadmu&#039;u le stedu mo&#039;ifa&#039;a&amp;quot;. As a sumti tcita, I tend to like &amp;quot;zo&#039;i&amp;quot; more than &amp;quot;fa&#039;a&amp;quot;, though I don&#039;t think you can ellipsize the &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; in that case, since the default referent of &amp;quot;zo&#039;i&amp;quot; is the speaker/narrator.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=45b /&amp;gt;[[#45a|45.]] Ivan: Wrong BAI, it seems. He wants to avenge his brethren, not necessarily on their behalf (maybe they don&#039;t even know who has caused their misery). &amp;quot;venfu&amp;quot; wants one more argument place, therefore I went for &amp;quot;vefsfa&amp;quot;, but by doing so I lost another argument place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Let&#039;s get that place back for you. There&#039;s really no reason why &amp;quot;vefsfa&amp;quot; should not have a place for &amp;quot;le se venfu&amp;quot;):&lt;br /&gt;
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 s1 avenges s2 by doing s3&lt;br /&gt;
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 p1 punishes p2 for doing p3 by doing p4.&lt;br /&gt;
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s1=p1. s3=p4. p3=tu&#039;a s2. Leaving out p3, we have:&lt;br /&gt;
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 vefsfa: x1 punishes x2 avenging x3 by doing x4.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, you could just say &amp;quot;venfu be lei bruna be&#039;o sfasa&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=46b /&amp;gt;[[#46a|46.]] Lojbab: rearrange more clearly as: &amp;quot;zi&#039;e noi selcmo co zmadu le la gaimast. si&#039;erbi&#039;e leni tepri&#039;a&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;zi&#039;e noi&amp;quot; could be simply &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot; since you are using the same kind of relative clause (noi) with the relativized sumti in the first position in both cases. But there is nothing wrong with the way you have it.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=47b /&amp;gt;[[#47a|47.]] Ivan: Ought to have been &amp;quot;Let me pass!&amp;quot;, but I didn&#039;t make it clear what the Devil was supposed to curmi.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=48b /&amp;gt;[[#48a|48.]] Ivan: (Bulgarian has two words which are equally glossed `prince&#039; in English, the first referring to a son or other close relative of a king, the other to a ruler of a principality.) &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot; corresponded to a certain form of the Bulgarian demonstrative pronoun, which suggests contempt.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=49b /&amp;gt;[[#49a|49.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;I am a guard[ian] of those up there...&amp;quot; It is certainly not his only job, but he means that he is serious about defending their privacy.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Perhaps remove the &amp;quot;jibri&amp;quot;, and replace by &amp;quot;.ei&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;.e&#039;i&amp;quot;. This also parallels what I think the following sentence should be ...&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=50b /&amp;gt;[[#50a|50.]] Ivan: Contrariwise. &amp;quot;... and without a bribe I won&#039;t betray them.&amp;quot; That is, &amp;quot;either I will be payingly compelled (i.e. bribed) or I won&#039;t betray them&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: &amp;quot;gi&#039;anaibabo&amp;quot; to be polite. I still think &amp;quot;le&#039;irbai&amp;quot; is sound. &amp;quot;le&#039;irselmukti&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I like using attitudinals, and &amp;quot;le&#039;ixlu&amp;quot; for bribe: &amp;quot;.ije mi se le&#039;ixlu .ei gi&#039;a na.e&#039;i lacti&#039;a ri&lt;br /&gt;
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I somehow feel that &amp;quot;lacti&#039;a&amp;quot; has the wrong emphasis. Since the Devil intends to deceive the plebeian, he should avoid mentioning deception. Maybe a nice ambiguous tanru like &amp;quot;sidju cliva ri&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=51b /&amp;gt;[[#51a|51.]] Ivan: Lit. &amp;quot;... to lay my head&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=52b /&amp;gt;[[#52a|52.]] Ivan: The surprise in the English is too strong.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=53b /&amp;gt;[[#53a|53.]] Ivan: I don&#039;t get the &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; here. &amp;quot;Let me never hear anything, let me...&amp;quot; I don&#039;t know how to say `let ... happen&#039; in Lojban, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Nora was undoubtedly trying to interpret the &amp;quot;.e&#039;i&amp;quot; (constraint), and did so as the negation of &amp;quot;.e&#039;inai&amp;quot; (freedom). I would normally use &amp;quot;.e&#039;a&amp;quot; for permission, and the reiteration of the request is even stronger, a petition: &amp;quot;.ie fi&#039;ido&#039;u mi noroi.e&#039;a tirna di .i.e&#039;o&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=54b /&amp;gt;[[#54a|54.]] Ivan: For a more straightforward way to say &amp;quot;Thou wilt still hear&amp;quot;, I&#039;m thinking of trying &amp;quot;do co&#039;unai ka&#039;e tirna&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=55b /&amp;gt;[[#55a|55.]] Ivan: Lit. &amp;quot;made him way&amp;quot;, i.e. &amp;quot;moved aside and let him pass&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=56b /&amp;gt;[[#56a|56.]] Lojbab: I don&#039;t know how to pass through stairs.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: This may be a malbaublgaria. By passing a set of steps I mean climbing them. They are seen as obstacles, because one has to pay for each set of three. Hints as to how else I could put it are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora: &amp;quot;pagre&amp;quot; isn&#039;t really the right word, unless you are doing it for the analogy of &amp;quot;passing through&amp;quot; stages (in which case something based on &amp;quot;pruce&amp;quot; might be used). I&#039;m not quite sure what to use in place of it, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: No, I&#039;m doing it for want of a better bet.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora: Maybe &amp;quot;klama mo&#039;i zo&#039;a ci te serti&amp;quot; (went motion-tangential 3 steps)?&lt;br /&gt;
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Ivan: Maybe. (Not that it sounds good enough to me.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I think I would use &amp;quot;bancu&amp;quot;, and I&#039;d soften the imperative to reinforce that it is a permission and not a command: &amp;quot;.i ®lu .e&#039;a ko cpare bancu li&#039;u¯&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=57b /&amp;gt;[[#57a|57.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;He rushed/dashed [forward]&amp;quot;. Probably &amp;quot;ko&#039;a co&#039;i [mo&#039;ica&#039;u] bajra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick: Remember, Lojbab, the primary raison d&#039;etre of &amp;quot;bikla&amp;quot; is to denote &amp;quot;a whip-like motion&amp;quot;, not a whip.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I have no real problem with the use of &amp;quot;bikla&amp;quot;. Any confusion in my mind is due to the repetition of the motion with different words: whipped forward, ran, walk-passed-through, for as short a motion as three steps. I would use &amp;quot;suksa&amp;quot;, though, and perhaps phrase it like: &amp;quot;.i ko&#039;a suksa ke bajra bancu tai pa nunstapa co cimei te serti&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=58b /&amp;gt;[[#58a|58.]] Ivan: Bulgarian has fewer personal pronouns than Lojban, so my &amp;quot;ko&#039;u&amp;quot; corresponds to &amp;quot;my brethren&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;thy brethren&amp;quot; as appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
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What will happen if I say &amp;quot;leiko&#039;u ni&#039;avu cmoni&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: Seems as good, and indeed resolves a tanru, though it is one that isn&#039;t really misunderstood. The main differences between your translation and Nora&#039;s is your &amp;quot;how&amp;quot;, which isn&#039;t present in the Lojban, and the interpretation of &amp;quot;vu&amp;quot;, which rather overstates the distance - it is after all only 3 steps at this point. How about: &amp;quot;ko sisti mu&#039;i lenu tirna leika ko&#039;u ni&#039;ava cmoni&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=59b /&amp;gt;[[#59a|59.]] Ivan: Rhetorical question. The last sentence may become &amp;quot;.i ko&#039;a di&#039;a bajra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojbab: I&#039;m not sure I understand how this is merely a rhetorical question. The attitudinal you inserted indicates surprise - thus he doesn&#039;t know the answer. He probably would like to know, even if he doesn&#039;t necessarily expect an answer. Thus &amp;quot;paunai&amp;quot;, the unask-the-question marker of a rhetorical question, seems out of place. If he asks the question, he really would like an answer. If you feel that he doesn&#039;t really expect to know but just thinks of it as an unsolvable and possibly irrelevant mystery, I would avoid the question-word entirely and merely use the attitudinal for strangeness and an observative to indicate what it is he finds so unquestionably strange. (This comment applies to later questions in the story of this &#039;rhetorical&#039; type.)&lt;br /&gt;
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I would have used a different attitudinal, &amp;quot;.i&#039;unai.u&#039;e&amp;quot; (mystery+wonder), instead of &amp;quot;.ue&amp;quot; (surprise), based on your translation of it as &amp;quot;Strange&amp;quot;. I would not have put a strength indicator on the attitudinal, which marked the attitude as particularly strong. Otherwise, this seems fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: It is a rhetorical question inasmuch as the youth doesn&#039;t expect the Devil to answer him. Of course he wouldn&#039;t mind being told, but he&#039;s not addressing anybody with this question, just wondering aloud. Your suggestion of attitudinal is good.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=60b /&amp;gt;[[#60a|60.]] Lojbab: For this meaning I would choose something like &amp;quot;tcudu&#039;u&amp;quot; (need-anguish), which in turn suggests a different kind of hand oscillating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=61b /&amp;gt;[[#61a|61.]] Ivan: The Bulgarian contained the rather long &amp;quot;those on whom I go (in the literal, &amp;quot;la&#039;e zo klama&amp;quot; sense) to take vengeance&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: You should be able to capture this with &amp;quot;leimi se vefsfa terkla&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=62b /&amp;gt;[[#62a|62.]] Ivan: Again [see footnote above regarding loss of hearing], I&#039;ll try &amp;quot;do co&#039;unai ka&#039;e viska&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=63b /&amp;gt;[[#63a|63.]] Ivan: The Devil slyly fails to specify in what sense they will be better (i.e. in what property they will zmadu).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: Would &amp;quot;zmadu befi zo&#039;e&amp;quot; be too obvious?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I think it would! It would make the Lojbanic point, but if the plebeian had heard it put like that, he might have guessed what he was in for. However, it would be clearer to readers, if the Devil had use &amp;quot;xagmau&amp;quot; (better) instead of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; (more), while retaining a similar ellipsis of comparison while adding one regarding the nature of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; (Better than what? By whose standard?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=64b /&amp;gt;[[#64a|64.]] Lojbab: You again need to deal with the &amp;quot;pagre&amp;quot; here. In this case, I suggest something like &amp;quot;krefu muvdu co bancu ci te serti&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;krefu&amp;quot; is better than &amp;quot;rapli&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;again&amp;quot;, though the latter is better for multiple repetitions, as occurs later in the story.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=65b /&amp;gt;[[#65a|65.]] Ivan: Ought to be &amp;quot;mo&#039;ini&#039;a ...&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;... le cnita&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I prefer &amp;quot;catlu le cnita&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;mo&#039;ini&#039;a&amp;quot;, like the similar moving gaze early in the story, seems to ask for misunderstanding, though I suspect fluent Lojbanists might appreciate the usage more than us novices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=66b /&amp;gt;[[#66a|66.]] Ivan: No answer to the question is really expected, so &amp;quot;pei ?cama ko&#039;u co&#039;a melbi dasni&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: You mean &amp;quot;paunai&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;pei&amp;quot;. I disagree, as stated in my earlier comment on these kind of rhetorical questions. I think the unsolvability of the question is better conveyed by 1) dropping the &amp;quot;.uecai&amp;quot; (which obviously prompted a different image in Nora&#039;s mind), and adding &amp;quot;.i&#039;enaicai&amp;quot; after &amp;quot;cizra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=67b /&amp;gt;[[#67a|67.]] Ivan: Odd as it may be, Smirnenski called them &amp;quot;manci xunre rozgu&amp;quot; `wondrously red roses&#039;, rather than &amp;quot;manci ke xunre rozgu&amp;quot;. Don&#039;t ask me why.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: The reason seems obvious to me, if indeed the difference between the two groupings is that striking in the Bulgarian: The left grouping indicates a surreal quality about the redness of the roses, a clue to the nature of these new eyes, whereas the right grouping just says that they are especially nice roses without suggesting a surreal quality. Pretty roses are a wonder, but they need no special eyes to be found; but roses that are a red color that is wondrous must indeed be an unusual red, since most roses are a fairly distinctive red color.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: Congratulations on your reading of the &amp;quot;wondrously red roses&amp;quot;. It is very interesting, if not accurate. They were more likely roses of an unusual (yet real) red colour. We often call rare things &#039;surreal&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=68b /&amp;gt;[[#68a|68.]] Ivan: I&#039;m not quite sure about &amp;quot;ba [pa te serti]&amp;quot; here - steps are not times. Maybe &amp;quot;ba tu&#039;a pa te serti&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: To be strictly correct, yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=69b /&amp;gt;[[#69a|69.]] Nora: The &amp;quot;semaunai&amp;quot; isn&#039;t necessary. &amp;quot;pa te serti&amp;quot; actually means &amp;quot;exactly one step&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: I wanted to emphasise the fact that it is really only one step. All of these sentences ended with an exclamation mark in the Bulgarian original. What would be a way to put it back?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: &amp;quot;ba&#039;epa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ba&#039;esu&#039;epa&amp;quot; will do it for me.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Also, on the &#039;only one step&#039; sentence, add &amp;quot;ba&#039;acai&amp;quot; to show intense anticipation, certainly worth an exclamation point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, you can add attitudinals in each sentence to spice up the emotional level, though without strength indicators until the final two sentences. I suggest &amp;quot;fu&#039;ese&#039;inai&amp;quot; on the &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; to show that the emotions that follow are empathic attributions to the plebeian (you may wish to mark this earlier in the story if you are attributing attitudes elsewhere in the story), &amp;quot;ba&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;.ianai&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; to show that the payments were not really &#039;little&#039;, &amp;quot;.a&#039;i.a&#039;a&amp;quot; on the &amp;quot;ru&#039;i&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;.e&#039;i.u&#039;o&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;dunda&amp;quot; (or perhaps &amp;quot;.u&#039;ucu&#039;i&amp;quot;), &amp;quot;.ai&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;.o&#039;inai&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;vefsfa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;.o&#039;onai&amp;quot; on &amp;quot;malplana&amp;quot;. By now the emotions are flowing almost as fast as the words, and the last few sentences need only one attitudinal per sentence, but with intensity. &amp;quot;.ua.a&#039;ocai ba&#039;upa&amp;quot; then on the &amp;quot;one step left&amp;quot; (instead of your &amp;quot;.uo.ui&amp;quot;, which seems premature), &amp;quot;ba&#039;acai&amp;quot; on the following sentence, and finally a starburst at the end of the final sentence like &amp;quot;.au.ei.uo.u&#039;a.uiri&#039;ecai&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This may be overkill, far more than you would like to do. Or I may be missing the exact feelings intended in the original, but you have to admit that it puts the exclamation points back in the paragraph.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=70b /&amp;gt;[[#70a|70.]] Lojbab: This word is the Lojban editorial bracket [e.g., I&#039;m adding this discursive note later, and it is not part of the original text or quote in which it is embedded]. To get the effect you want, it needs to be attached to something discursive that indicates the ellipsis, since you don&#039;t really want to delete the &amp;quot;pidrai&amp;quot; that it currently marks. I would make it vausa&#039;ake&#039;unai, which ends the sentence with any appropriate ellipsis supplied (the formal meaning of &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;), indicates that the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; isn&#039;t really said, and then indicates continuation (which is covered by the &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; since it is attached to it in the manner of indicators).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, &amp;quot;mi&#039;unai&amp;quot; might make a better word for open-ended ellipsis, though it isn&#039;t currently in the word list, since I think we have a difference discursive intent for &amp;quot;ke&#039;unai&amp;quot;: to indicate at the start of a block of text that you are continuing a thread after repeating something for emphasis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other choices for open-ended ellipsis might be &amp;quot;.isa&#039;a.isa&#039;a.isa&#039;a&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;.itu&#039;esa&#039;atu&#039;u&amp;quot; (which would become legal under a recently proposed grammar change).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=71b /&amp;gt;[[#71a|71.]] Ivan: I&#039;ll probably split this into &amp;quot;ledo ka cinmo .e ledo ka morji&amp;quot;. The original had &amp;quot;thy heart and thy memory&amp;quot;, but the heart (&amp;quot;risna&amp;quot;) is in Lojban, as in many natural cultures, only a pump for blood. I&#039;m not sure whether the youth implies that he will die if his heart is torn out of his chest (which is true with respect to his natural heart), or that he doesn&#039;t want to live without being able to have feelings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: It must be the latter, since he has indicated that he is willing to die in return for achieving his goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would replace &amp;quot;heart&amp;quot; by either &amp;quot;emotion-source&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;emotion-organ&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=72b /&amp;gt;[[#72a|72.]] Ivan: The &amp;quot;hey&amp;quot; sounds somewhat rude to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: We have generally found that putting in the &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; tends to soften the harshness of the vocative, making for a more polite phrase like &amp;quot;Attend my words, O young man&amp;quot;. Another possible vocative to consider is &amp;quot;ta&#039;adoi&amp;quot;, especially since the Devil is interrupting the reverie of the preceding sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=73b /&amp;gt;[[#73a|73.]] Nora: &amp;quot;di&#039;i&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;regularly&amp;quot; as in how a clock ticks, that is &amp;quot;at regular intervals&amp;quot;. I think &amp;quot;na&#039;o&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;typically&amp;quot;) might work better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: Yes, well, it is not &amp;quot;typically&amp;quot; either, because he does it every single time when someone gets to this step.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Then maybe &amp;quot;roroi&amp;quot; to so quantify the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=74b /&amp;gt;[[#74a|74.]] Ivan: Or &amp;quot;I will give thee instead...&amp;quot; The original had literally &amp;quot;lo solji risna&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=75b /&amp;gt;[[#75a|75.]] Ivan: That is, &amp;quot;If thou consentest not, thou shalt never...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: This sounds like &amp;quot;tugni&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;curmi&amp;quot;, or maybe something else, instead of &amp;quot;zanru&amp;quot;. This literally translates to something like &amp;quot;ganai do na curmi&amp;quot;, a double negative equivalent of what you chose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=76b /&amp;gt;[[#76a|76.]] Lojbab: This sounds more like &amp;quot;do lebna ro selkai be loi remna mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=77b /&amp;gt;[[#77a|77.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;On the contrary - the most happy one!... But - ? Dost thou agree: only thy heart and thy memory?&amp;quot; I have no idea what &amp;quot;do&#039;a&amp;quot; means; I used &amp;quot;do&#039;anai&amp;quot; for `only&#039; here. (I didn&#039;t intend it to be interpreted as &amp;quot;please&amp;quot;.) The &amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot; is for symmetry (to replace the &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick: &amp;quot;do&#039;a&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;generously&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;do&#039;anai&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;parsimoniously&amp;quot;. I think here &amp;quot;do&#039;anai&amp;quot; would here mean &amp;quot;I&#039;m not asking for too much&amp;quot;, but generosity is associated with giving, isn&#039;t it? But I can find no better UI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: We better clarify this one well. It came across entirely backwards. Intended to be discursive rather than emotive, &amp;quot;do&#039;a&amp;quot; is supposed to mean that you are generously conceding or allowing a dubious point &amp;quot;even if this were so&amp;quot;, possibly in conjunction with &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;do&#039;anai&amp;quot; therefore means that you are refusing to give in even a little, which is probably why Nora translated it as an officious and insistent &#039;please&#039; (rather than a polite request).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I presume that the word can be used emotively, though I hadn&#039;t thought of it that way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We addressed the question of how to express &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; on the net at great length, a discussion that I couldn&#039;t fit into JL17. Unless you are intending that &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; mean that the Devil is trying to express that he is being generous to require as little as the heart and memory (which would be a knowingly false emotive expression, something I don&#039;t much like in the Lojban attitudinal system - though I guess, if anyone can lie about emotions, the Devil can), you need one of the more elaborate logical paraphrases of &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; like &amp;quot;... and nothing else&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=78b /&amp;gt;[[#78a|78.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;Turbid &amp;lt;...&amp;gt; rolled along his wrinkled forehead.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I think you wanted &amp;quot;mo&#039;ire&#039;o&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;zo&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=79b /&amp;gt;[[#79a|79.]] Ivan: No! &amp;quot;He became thoughtful /fell to thinking.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Nora got caught here by the faulty memory that afflicts those of us who are long time Loglanists - &amp;quot;trati&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;taut&amp;quot; in Lojban, in older TLI Loglan meant what &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; now means (&amp;quot;try&amp;quot;). A rare case where she didn&#039;t actually look the word and place structure up, I guess.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=80b /&amp;gt;[[#80a|80.]] Nora: This is when I finally figured this metaphor out; I think the &amp;quot;angrily&amp;quot; helped.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=81b /&amp;gt;[[#81a|81.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;And suddenly a smile shone on his face.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I don&#039;t think a smile can illuminate someone&#039;s face in Lojban in any literal sense of the relation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan: The original uses an intransitive verb which usually refers to the sun coming out from behind a cloud, something like `[and suddenly] a smile &amp;quot;co&#039;a&amp;quot; [shine; be a source of light] on his face&#039;. Clearly Smirnenski didn&#039;t want to just say `he smiled&#039;, but as his alternative wording doesn&#039;t affect the meaning, I&#039;m not sure how to account for it. I am open for suggestions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: How about something like &amp;quot;suksa cisma co ka leko&#039;a flira cu panra le solgu&#039;i poi ba&#039;o dilzu&#039;i ku leka co&#039;a to&#039;ercanci&amp;quot;? (This uses the proposed grammar revision for relative clauses; the baseline grammar requires &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; where &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=82b /&amp;gt;[[#82a|82.]] Ivan: Ought to be &amp;quot;He was already on the top&amp;quot;. I reckon I&#039;ve been having trouble saying `already&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: I can see two interpretations of &amp;quot;already&amp;quot; given only the English word, so don&#039;t feel bad. Given that his memory has changed in the way it has, he may not remember the climbing, and thus is already at the top (This might be &amp;quot;ba&#039;anai cpana le gapru&amp;quot;). Or, in the sense that you suggest with &amp;quot;snada&amp;quot;, he is in the aftermath of climbing the last step (&amp;quot;ba&#039;o cpare fi le gapru&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=83b /&amp;gt;[[#83a|83.]] Ivan: He enjoys his belief that he is a prince by birth, and has always been one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=84b /&amp;gt;[[#84a|84.]] Ivan: His fists, actually. But it is the same thing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=85b /&amp;gt;[[#85a|85.]] Ivan: &amp;quot;He looked at the feasting/banquetting princes.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=86b /&amp;gt;[[#86a|86.]] Ivan: `crowds&#039; wearing holiday garments, such as are worn only on special days (e.g. Sundays).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=87b /&amp;gt;[[#87a|87.]] Ivan: Literally. &amp;quot;the moans were already hymns&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; is my addition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab: Shades of our classic example of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;le nanmu cu ninmu&amp;quot;. Of course they are still moans, but he doesn&#039;t know that. Maybe a &amp;quot;pe&#039;i&amp;quot; to make this clear.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus you might want &amp;quot;rolo&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, to clarify which reality the author prefers to assume.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that Lojban&#039;s simple tenses are aorist; i.e. saying that they were moans in the past with &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; makes no claim about their current status at &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; - they may still be moans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=88b /&amp;gt;[[#88a|88.]] Ivan: Exclamation. &amp;quot;Oh, how beautiful is the earth and how happy are the people!&amp;quot; Again, the &amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot; is for symmetry, in the place of what was &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; but a while ago. In the original &amp;quot;.oicai&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;.uicai&amp;quot; were the same interjection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=89b /&amp;gt;[[#89a|89.]] Ivan: Lit. &amp;quot;a prince&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span id=90b /&amp;gt;[[#90a|90.]] Ivan: The author&#039;s pen name is Smirnenski (I lojbanised it by cutting off the &amp;quot;-i&amp;quot;, which only indicates that he&#039;s a man).&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=sandbox&amp;diff=124094</id>
		<title>sandbox</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=sandbox&amp;diff=124094"/>
		<updated>2020-08-20T01:22:01Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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{{Please leave this line alone and write below (this is the coloured heading)}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=sandbox&amp;diff=124093</id>
		<title>sandbox</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=sandbox&amp;diff=124093"/>
		<updated>2020-08-19T07:40:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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text&amp;lt;span id=1a&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;[[#1b|(1)]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span id=1b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;[[#1a|1.]] footnote1&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=124092</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=124092"/>
		<updated>2020-08-19T05:25:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* lei lojbo */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
Level 0 - le lojbo karni only - $5 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 1 - le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $15 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
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Level 3 - Level 2 materials and teaching materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noika	selsi&#039;a	  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi pankai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i	     cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro	     cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai	     denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a	     drani rinka     to	correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to	be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai	     badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i	     dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u		     the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i	     jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai	     panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro	remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se	ckasu	     ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se	damba	     opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i	     se	mukti	     be	motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se	renvi	     survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a	     se	sinma	     esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se	snada	     achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai	     senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai	     smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai	     virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau	     xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e	     xrani mutce     much injured&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai	 mi	senva	 le  na	 se  senva	 ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai	 mee	SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah	 keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba		 le na	 seldamba	  ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh	DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah	  keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi	     le	     drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee	     leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /     -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  virklama	     le	      virnu	na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah	     leh      VEER,nu	nah,seh	DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   -	 /   -	      -	       /    -	   -	 /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  drari&#039;a	     le	 na  draselri&#039;a	       ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah	     leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	   -   /   -		-	 -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	      curve	       je	       darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SHUR,veh	      zheh	       DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		- -		/    -	-    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     troci se	    pi&#039;o   le	   dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh TRO,shee,seh	 pee,ho,leh	du,STAH,hee keh	 BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /     -		 -	    -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     snada	      le  na	 selsnada	    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SNAH,dah	      leh,nah	 sehl,SNAH,dah	    MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		 -	  -	/   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	    selmu&#039;i	lenu  jersi	la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee	leh,nu	   ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	     -	  /  -	   -	/    -	 -   -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju	 mi  na	 pacna	 .iju	   du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu	du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	    -	  /	-      /    -	 -  -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 damba	  mu&#039;i	 loi xamgu	  sekainai    loi  senkai    ja	   depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu	  seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -      -	       /    -	   -   /   -   -    /	 -     -    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 gunta		 le  cevypro	  ki&#039;u	 le  cevmu&#039;i	      .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah	 leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /   -		  -    /     -	   -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi	 ralte	  .ai			  le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a	kei gi&#039;e    ka	curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai			  leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /	  -   -	  /    -   -			   -   /     -	     -	    /	-     -	    -		/   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi	 vreta	  sekai	 loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai			  loi  PAHP,kai	zheh   SMAH,kai	shah leh,nu mee	MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   /   -     -	  -    /    -	 -	/   -	 -   /	 -  -	/   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda	 ba	   xagmau		ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah	 bah	   KHAHG,mau		ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	  -   /	    -	  -	     /	  -		 -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu	pa  prenu	 noi selckasu	      gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu	pah PREH,nu	 noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	 -    /	  -	    -	     /	 -	   -	     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu	    troci	 sepi&#039;o		ro	leri	   vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee	 seh,pee,ho	ro	leh,ree	   VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	    -	  /	 -	   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu	    snada	 le  na	 selsnada	  ke	    tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah	 leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah	  keh	    TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	  -	-	/   -	   -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the	not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter		 against not-combatable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor		 of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer		 to the	brave-not-dared	(places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector		 of the	not-correctable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure		 -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor		 using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever		 of not	achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of	these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether	I not-hope-for.	 Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight	motivated by the good,	   (the	fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of	course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,	I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized	by the property	of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well	as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi papkai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by			  peace	and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home	 will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	one-person	 who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all	of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	achieving	 the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of the Activity Song&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Ninety-Nine Bottles of Beer on the Wall&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things	are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le	botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le	 sosoboi      dacti	cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee	shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /  -	-      /     -	  -  /	 -     -   /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 sosoboi      botpi	cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee	shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /  -	-      /   -	  -  /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i	 nu   pa  le  botpi	cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee	shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /    -   -   /   -	  -  /	  -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 bitmu	 cu   ralte	 sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh	 so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -   -   /    -	  -  /	 -     -   /   -&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:98.sip||lei lojbo]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:95.sip || LK8]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_16_moi&amp;diff=124091</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 16 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_16_moi&amp;diff=124091"/>
		<updated>2020-08-19T05:22:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 15 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 17 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 16 - May-June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1992, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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It&#039;s been a while since last issue, as we attempted to get our finances back on an even keel. Our financial health plan is taking effect, and we expect future issues of JL to resume quarterly appearance (if you are a subscriber, of course). (I also want to apologize to people who have had to wait an excessively long time for materials ordered during the last 6 months. Hopefully the order backlog will have been corrected when you get this issue.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As will usually be the case, this issue contains much material derived from the Lojban List computer mailing list on the Internet. Nearly all such material has been edited, revised, and corrected from the original.&lt;br /&gt;
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We continue to be flooded with Lojban text from several writers, and some of this material will be found in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Several pieces in this issue relate to Lojban and computer applications, and our first research proposal is reprinted.&lt;br /&gt;
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The main body of this issue will be short, because we are including two long enclosures: a major paper by John Cowan on Lojban tense structures, and a major revision/improvement of the Diagrammed Summary of Lojban Grammar Forms, which is becoming the mainstay of our introductory materials. Some of the material originally prepared for this issue, including about 10 pages of discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, will be delayed until JL17 (which, having this extra preparation done, is much more likely to come out on time!)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                          Table of Contents                        &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
Brief Glossary of Lojban Terms                                ---3 &lt;br /&gt;
News                                                               &lt;br /&gt;
  Subscriptions and Finances                                  ---3 &lt;br /&gt;
  Athelstan Injured                                           ---4 &lt;br /&gt;
  Language Education                                          ---5 &lt;br /&gt;
  Electronic Distribution                                     ---5 &lt;br /&gt;
  Logfest 92                                                  ---7 &lt;br /&gt;
  Language Development Status                                 ---8 &lt;br /&gt;
  Status of Products                                          --12 &lt;br /&gt;
  Schedule                                                    --19 &lt;br /&gt;
  Using the Language                                          --19 &lt;br /&gt;
  Research Using Lojban                                       --20 &lt;br /&gt;
  International News/Publicity                                --21 &lt;br /&gt;
  News From the Institute                                     --21 &lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska                         --22, 25, 31, 35, 37, 41 &lt;br /&gt;
Text of the Court of Appeals Decision                         --23 &lt;br /&gt;
lei lojbo                                                     --26 &lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz.&#039;s First Research Proposal                      --27 &lt;br /&gt;
DLT - Esperanto-based Machine Translation                     --34 &lt;br /&gt;
A Lojbanic Cultural Allegory                                  --36 &lt;br /&gt;
Morphology Algorithm                                          --39 &lt;br /&gt;
Translations of le lojbo se ciska                             --42 &lt;br /&gt;
Next Issue                                                    --46 &lt;br /&gt;
Sample Pages from Forthcoming Dictionary                      --46 &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve or Usenet/Internet address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym. &#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of ju&#039;i lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039; - Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and &#039;Institute Loglan&#039; another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;PLS&#039; - The Planned Languages Server, a no-charge computer-network-accessed distribution center for materials on Lojban (and other artificial languages). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Brief Glossary of Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Terms Following are definitions of frequently used Lojban terms. More complete explanations of the following are in the Overview of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmavo - Lojban structure words&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu - Lojban root words; currently 1337;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rafsi - affix combining forms for the gismu;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo - compound words built from rafsi;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;avla - words borrowed from other languages;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
brivla - Lojban predicate words, consisting of gismu, lujvo. and le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru - Lojban metaphors, the most productive and creative expression form of the language;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sumti - the arguments of a logical predicate;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
selbri - Lojban predicates which indicate a relation among one or more sumti. A selbri is most often a brivla or tanru; formerly called &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot; in error;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
bridi - Lojban predications, the basic grammatical structure of the language; a bridi expresses a complete relationship: the selbri expresses the relation and the sumti express the various things being related;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
selma&#039;o - grammatical categories of Lojban words; the basis of the unambiguous formal grammar of the language. Traditionally and erroneously called &amp;quot;lexeme&amp;quot; in the Loglan community. These categories typically have a name derived from one word in that grammatical category; the name is all capitals, except that an apostrophe is replaced by a small letter &#039;h&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscriptions and Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This may be your last issue of ju&#039;i lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are converting JL to a subscription basis. This is the last issue sent to those not explicitly requesting (and in most cases paying for) a subscription.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At this point some 65 people have returned forms requesting a subscription. Perhaps half of these have sufficient balances to cover their subscription price.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our new special fund for &#039;scholarship subscriptions&#039; will not allow us to support more than a few people on a non-paying basis, and these free subscriptions will be reserved for those who are actively working in the language, but cannot pay (mostly international supporters).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So here&#039;s where things stand: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* For US and Canadian subscribers, the subscription price will be US$28 for 4 issues (hopefully 1 year - but our commitment will be for a number of issues rather than a date, just in case). For those in other countries, the subscription price will be US$35 for 4 issues. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you have not returned a subscription form, and have a negative balance worse than $-10 after deducting for JL16 (this issue), your mailing label will have a &amp;quot;JL 16&amp;quot; on it indicating that your &#039;subscription&#039; expires with the current issue. We must receive a signed subscription request form and enough money to cover the subscription price AND at least 1/2 of your negative balance. If you cannot afford this amount, you may request scholarship assistance on the subscription form, but you will be lowest priority for such subscriptions unless you are a very active volunteer. Contributing some of the amount required will raise your priority considerably. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you have not returned a subscription form, and have between $-10 and $10 in your balance after deducting for JL16 (this issue), your mailing label will have a &amp;quot;JL 16&amp;quot; on it indicating that your &#039;subscription&#039; expires with the current issue. We must receive a signed subscription request form and enough money to cover the subscription price. If you cannot afford this amount, you may request scholarship assistance on the subscription form. Contributing some of the amount required will raise your priority considerably. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you have not returned a subscription form, and have more than $10 in your balance after deducting for JL16 (this issue), your mailing label will have a number between &amp;quot;JL 17&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;JL 20&amp;quot; on it indicating that your subscription expires with the indicated issue. Your balance will be deducted at a rate of $10 per issue (substantially above the subscription price for US and Canada recipients, less so for overseas recipients), for up to 4 issues, until your balance drops below $10, or until we receive a form and/or other instructions from you. You will be given the lower-priced 4-issue subscription rate when we receive your signed subscription request form (and preferably enough money to raise your balance above the subscription minimum). If you cannot afford the subscription amount, you may request scholarship assistance on the subscription form. You will receive highest priority after the most active volunteers to gain such assistance to fill out your balance to a 4-issue subscription.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have returned a subscription form and have more than $10 in your balance after deducting for JL16 (this issue), your mailing label will have a number between &amp;quot;JL 17&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;JL 20&amp;quot; on it; your subscription expires with the indicated issue. You have either been given a full four-issue subscription (if there is enough in your balance to cover the price), or a partial-year subscription prorated to your balance amount ($7/issue for US/Canada). The subscription price has been deducted from your balance, and an &amp;quot;*&amp;quot; on the mailing label indicates that your subscription has been paid. You need do nothing to continue receiving JL; we will notify you by direct mail prior to your last subscription issue for renewal.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have returned a subscription form and have less than $10 in your balance after deducting for JL16 (this issue), and you sent at least $40 in balance contributions between 1 Dec. 1991 and 15 April 1992, your mailing label will have &amp;quot;JL 20&amp;quot; on it. You have been given a full four-issue subscription. The subscription price has been deducted from your balance, and an &amp;quot;*&amp;quot; on the mailing label indicates that your subscription has been paid. You need do nothing to continue receiving JL; we will notify you prior to your last subscription issue for renewal. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you have returned a subscription form and have less than $10 in your balance after deducting for JL16 (this issue), and you have sent less than $40 in balance contributions since 1 December 1991, your mailing label will have a number between &amp;quot;JL 17&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;JL 19&amp;quot; on it indicating that your subscription expires with the indicated issue. You been given a part-year subscription. We have deducted the cost of this issue from your contribution (if any), and determined your prorated subscription period based on 1/2 of the remaining contribution (if any), with a minimum of 1 issue. The amount of the subscription has been deducted from your balance, and an &amp;quot;*&amp;quot; on the mailing label indicates that your subscription has been paid. You need do nothing to continue receiving JL; we will notify you prior to your last subscription issue for renewal. However, we ask that you contribute to bring your balance positive if possible. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you have returned a subscription form and asked for scholarship support for your subscription: we have not yet decided who will get such support, but given the above policy, you will at least receive JL17. &lt;br /&gt;
* If you are an overseas recipient of JL, then you are slated to receive at least through &amp;quot;JL 17&amp;quot; since you have received no chance to send in a subscription request form until now. Your balance will be charged $10 for JL17 if we have not received a form prior to that issue.&lt;br /&gt;
* When you stop receiving JL after the subscription expiration issue, you will automatically be switched to a subscription to the newsletter le lojbo karni (LK - subscription price of around $5 per year). We expect to cull the LK mailing list after the next fund-raising mailer, dropping those people with balances less than $-30.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We haven&#039;t yet received enough subscription forms to justify applying for a 2nd class postage (though we are close). The highest subscription price has been selected because we&#039;ll have to pay 1st class/air mail postage rates for at least one issue, as well as at least $275 to obtain the 2nd class permit (about $4 for each subscriber) that will allow us to save postage costs thereafter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Final financial results from last year - Our 1991 income totalled $14,462.59, with expenses of $14,746.31, for a net loss on the year of about $300. Of that amount $10,725.73 was donations (around $6000 of this was from Lojbab and Nora). In total, only $3700 was contributed toward balances from over 850 people on our mailing list. Only through our end-of-year fund-raiser did we even do this well. We received $2500 during the last 20 days of December, much of it as a result of the fund-raising drive, reducing us from a deficit of over $2000 for the year that might have crippled us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of 1991, we owed about $5800 in legal fees on the trademark battle, which we&#039;re repaying at $500 per month. This is taking every penny that Lojbab, Nora and Jeff Prothero, who are financing the legal fees, can contribute. We must count on the rest of you to keep the organization going financially. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Status this year - So far in 1992, we&#039;re losing money. Up to now, against some $2500 in income, we&#039;ve spent around $2800; JL16 and LK16 will cost another $1200, and we have over $1500 precommitted towards future JL subscriptions. Thus, we expect to need another fund-raising drive within a couple of months. I hope to tie such a fund-raiser to the announcement of the first Lojban book. But please don&#039;t wait until then. Contribute now! We don&#039;t know yet how we will finance book publication, which will cost several thousand dollars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our Numbers - Support for Lojban continues to grow at an outstanding rate; we lose few people (mostly people who move and forget to tell us their new address), while averaging 1 new person every 2-3 days for the last year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are our numbers by level of interest and subscription, as of this publication (numbers in parentheses include multiple persons per address):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level E - Practitioner (people who have actually produced Lojban text, are actively working with the language, and receiving materials from us) - 13 (17)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level D - Lojban Student - 95 (113)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level C - Active Observer - 139 (149)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level B - Inactive Observer - 627 (663)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL16 subscribers - 241 (272)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL17 subscribers - 114 (130)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL subscription request returned - 66 (72)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Prepaid beyond JL17 - 55 (61)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;LK subscribers&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Total active mailing list 897 (965) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Athelstan Injured ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our efforts on Lojban here in the Washington DC area were dealt a severe blow at the end of February. Athelstan, one of la lojbangirz.&#039;s Directors, received a head injury in an auto accident, causing severe brain damage. He was in a coma for over 2 weeks, but has made good progress since. Early in April, he was transferred to a rehabilitation hospital, where he is slowly regaining memory and living skills; he is expected to remain in the hospital until at least mid-July. Regaining his full abilities is uncertain, and doing so will take many more months, if not years.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan was one of the most skilled of Lojbanists, and a major participant in our weekly conversation sessions here in the DC area. We have had to change from conversation sessions to teaching, reading, and translations sessions; the 3 remaining conversation-skilled people (Nora, Lojbab, and Sylvia Rutiser) are not enough &#039;critical mass&#039; to keep conversations lively and interesting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve also lost Athelstan&#039;s contribution to the endless work that is being done around here. Athelstan had written up his oft-taught mini-lesson in text form, and was in the middle of revising it for publication when the accident occurred. I may be able to finish it, but not quickly - too much else to do. Athelstan was also one of the principal reviewers of ju&#039;i lobypli and other la lojbangirz. publications that I and others write; we can only hope that the quality of our products is sustained without his excellent efforts at catching typos and more serious technical errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The good news is that it appears that the damage has not destroyed Athelstan&#039;s capacity for language, nor his interest in Lojban. In mid-April, he responded to my &amp;quot;coi. .atlstan.&amp;quot; with a hearty &amp;quot;coi.&amp;quot; in return. At the end of our otherwise English-language visit, I asked him if he remembered how to say goodbye; with only minimal hesitation, he came back with a confident &amp;quot;co&#039;o.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given my close friendship with Athelstan, I have had to undertake commitments in helping his family and other friends support his recovery; this has taken a fair amount of time away from Lojban, though I now seem to be back in control of my schedule. Indeed, the incentive of knowing how fragile our effort is while so few of us know the details of the language seems to have remotivated me to get the community of Lojbanists who are expert in the language up to a self-sustaining level. Even amidst tragedy, there can be growth and progress. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Language Education === &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
DC Class - Even before Athelstan&#039;s accident, we needed to build up the activity of the local Lojban community. Now, local teaching activities are even more vital. As such, starting in June, we&#039;ll be trying to organize a new Lojban class here in the Washington DC area. The class will probably meet in Fairfax VA (although a Rockville MD location is also being considered), on a weekly basis starting near the end of June and last throughout the summer. A principal goal will be to raise the students&#039; skill level so that they can confidently participate in in-language activities in the August LogFest, and be able to continue in Lojban conversation sessions or translation activities after the class ends.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Needless to say, if you will be in the DC area this summer, and are interested in participating in such a class, please contact me at the masthead address or telephone, or via electronic mail per page 2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other education efforts - Most of our education efforts in the last several months have been through electronic mail on the computer networks. I&#039;ve been able to delegate much of this teaching effort out to other Lojbanists who are active on Lojban List, and the numbers and competency of those attempting to write on Lojban List has continued to grow with each passing month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The network has also served as a testing ground for new teaching materials. Athelstan&#039;s draft text version of his mini-lesson (see below) was tried out by about 2 dozen people who returned comments and answers to exercises. These will be lead to a significantly revised and improved version for publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, a draft of the Diagrammed Examples paper enclosed with this issue has been extensively distributed on the networks (as well as to many new mail order Lojbanists) during the last 6 months. French-Australian linguist Jacques Guy finally culminated this review with some enormously detailed comments, leading to the major revision and expansion included with this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even before this final version, the Diagrammed Examples, with explanatory text, has proved in recent months to be the most significant learning aid to new Lojbanists actually attempting to learn to use the language. Several Lojbanists used only this paper and word lists (that were generally obtained by electronic distribution per the next section), to self-teach themselves to the level of being able to translate Lojban text written by more experienced Lojbanists. Then, with a few such efforts to give them experience, we have seen these Lojbanists start to write in Lojban, making relatively few and minor errors given the lack of a full teaching text. (Those who have study the draft textbook and/or used LogFlash have done still better, but the effectiveness of this relatively brief description has astounded several of us to the point of motivating this new version.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Electronic Distribution ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is available and how - The electronic distribution policy announced last issue has been implemented, more-or-less. We have been unable to place JL and LK back-issues and a few other longer materials on the Planned Languages Server - our primary electronic distribution point. We have also been unable to implement the file verification program that we intended because of incompatibilities between computer systems that causes such techniques to fail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In spite of this, there is now a lot of material available electronically, including most of the now public domain language definition materials like word lists and formal grammars. I&#039;ve been told that some of this material has been transferred to Compuserve, and I&#039;m hoping that more will be moved to that network, as well as to Genie and other public computer networks. (Let us know if you do so, and what stuff you are posting where, so we can report accurately to the community as to what is available).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a list of all materials (and their filenames) available on the Planned Languages Server as of this publication date, and instructions for obtaining them from the Server. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an updated version of the file posted to the PLS entitled &amp;quot;readme&amp;quot; which includes an annotated and categorized index to all files on the list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the &amp;quot;readme&amp;quot; file is an abbreviated set of instructions for obtaining files from the server. Send the one line message &#039;help&#039; to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
langserv@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
to get the full help listing. While you can put multiple requests in a file, my experience has been that if there is any error on any command, the entire set is disregarded. I would therefore suggest getting 1 file at a time until you are sure what you are doing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;gismu.lst&amp;quot; is the official, public domain baseline that many Lojbanists already possess in printed form. It has 40-character definitions of the Lojban gismu, and has been relatively unchanged for a few years now. Only minor corrections have been put into the posted file, and the 20 new words adopted last year were never added.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;logdata.raw&amp;quot; is a preliminary version of the new gismu list baseline. I intend the new baseline to take effect shortly after the publication of JL16, hopefully within a month. I would recommend using the current &amp;quot;logdata.raw&amp;quot; file, and ignoring the &amp;quot;gismu.lst&amp;quot; file, UNLESS it is vital to you to be using a public domain version. We won&#039;t object to any copying of the still copyrighted draft as long as the copyright notice and the notice that it is a draft stays intact with the file. To all intents and purposes, the old 40-character file is obsolete. I would recommend that any new text be written using the &amp;quot;logdata.raw&amp;quot; place structures. (All text in this issue probably presumes this newer version.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Questions on any file? Contact Bob LeChevalier at the masthead address or via: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See the file &amp;quot;epolicy.txt&amp;quot; for a more complete explanation of la lojbangirz. electronic distribution policy. We ask that users of these files consider donating money for the support of The Logical Language Group, Inc. We are a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and such donations are tax-deductible in the US, to the extent they exceed the price of things we send you. While it costs us little for you to get a copy of the files on this archive, the network is not free. la lojbangirz. spent some $2000 during 1991 on network access, supporting Lojban List, this archive, and responding to people like you. We do not make a profit on our printed materials, so it is your donations that will allow us to continue to serve the network community of Lojbanists and people curious about Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The files listed following are the official postings of The Logical Language Group, Inc. on this server. All other postings should be considered unsanctioned, and possibly incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Language design materials are explicitly listed here and in the documents themselves as being in the public domain. All other documents are copyrighted under the same heading listed above for this document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note on file names. All file names ending with &amp;quot;.unf&amp;quot; may contain lines up to about 120 characters long. Original documents published by la lojbangirz. are formatted using longer than 80 character lines, and this wider line-length was determined to give a more readable text when that formatting was removed. File names ending with &amp;quot;.txt&amp;quot; are generally under 80 characters in width. Other file name extensions have no implication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many files are compressed using a rather simplistic program that tabifies every 8 characters INCLUDING A SINGLE SPACE IN A 0 MOD 8 POSITION. We have since learned that some tab expanders will take a TAB in a 0 mod 8 position and expand it to 9 spaces instead of 1. This could cause you problems, which hopefully this notice will help you correct if it affects you. We consider this a failed experiment: when we next send data to PLS for uploading we will send files without the tab compression, but this may be a few months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The PLS has very limited disk space. la lojbangirz. has convinced Mark and Jerry to post much of the material we sent them, but they do not have room for all of it. In particular, back issues of JL and LK, and a LOT of Lojban text could not be posted. I want to see some or all of this material available, if only on a limited time basis. Therefore, in about 3 months, I will be asking Mark and Jerry to tell me the rates of access for Lojban directory files. Seldom accessed files may be deleted to allow us to make room for new stuff, as listed at the end of this document. So please don&#039;t delay too long if you want to get a copy of a file listed here. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! File Name&lt;br /&gt;
! Bytes&lt;br /&gt;
! Date&lt;br /&gt;
! Description &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Control documents &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| readme&lt;br /&gt;
| 7668&lt;br /&gt;
| 01-09-92&lt;br /&gt;
| A version of this index.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| epolicy.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 2912&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-09-91&lt;br /&gt;
| The la lojbangirz. Electronic Distribution Policy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| orderfrm.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 9497&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Current la lojbangirz. Product List &amp;amp; Order Form; Include Paper Postal Address on any order, please. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Language Design Materials and Drafts &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| grammar.28&lt;br /&gt;
| 64552&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-11-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Baselined Lojban Grammar - YACC version; Public Domain. Without explanatory text included in printed versions.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bnf.28&lt;br /&gt;
| 7872&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-11-91&lt;br /&gt;
| EBNF form of the Baselined Lojban Grammar. Not verified. Public domain. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pronounc.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 9718&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Pronunciation guide. Public domain.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gismu.lst&lt;br /&gt;
| 88717&lt;br /&gt;
| 01-09-92&lt;br /&gt;
| Baselined gismu list. Public domain. Expected to be superseded soon by a modified version of &amp;quot;logdata.raw&amp;quot;, which will the be renamed &amp;quot;gismu.lst&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| logdata.raw&lt;br /&gt;
| 115603&lt;br /&gt;
| 01-09-92&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban gismu (root word) draft update &amp;gt;80 characters wide&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| roget.lst&lt;br /&gt;
| 40612&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| gismu sorted by Roget category. Draft.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| logdata3.cma&lt;br /&gt;
| 88312&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban cmavo (structure word) list. Public domain. cmavo order &amp;gt;80 characters wide&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| logdata3.lex&lt;br /&gt;
| 88312&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban cmavo (structure word) list. Public domain. selma&#039;o (grammar category) order &amp;gt;80 characters wide&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lehavla.alg&lt;br /&gt;
| 2326&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Draft proposal for borrowing words.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Introductory Materials in Suggested Order&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| loglan.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 8598&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Introduction and history for those familiar with other Loglan versions&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| brochure.eng&lt;br /&gt;
| 62820&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Basic Lojban Brochure - formatted for electronic distribution&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| postbroc.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 28312&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| An edited version of brochure.eng abbreviated so as to be more suitable for electronic transmission.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| minilsne.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 30917&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-16-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Draft introductory Draft Lojban mini-lesson. Return answers to la lojbangirz. for correction.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| overview.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 63143&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Overview of the language and intro. to specialized terminology &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| diagexam.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 10851&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-09-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Diagrammed Examples of Lojban Text (the original version of the one in JL16 - the new version will replace this file shortly, and is a much longer file)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Teaching Materials and Detailed Discussion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| useoldl1.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 15233&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| How to use 1975 Loglan 1 to study Lojban (partially correct for 1989 version)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| newrafsi.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 77773&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| List of Lojban rafsi (combining forms) and how to make compounds (lujvo).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| negation.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 127903&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Negation in Lojban. Many examples.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| scrabble.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 6098&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Suggested game rules based on Lojban letter frequencies &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Why Lojban? &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| whylojb.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 198651&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| General discussion on &#039;Why Lojban?&#039; extracted from ju&#039;i lobypli, Includes JCB on Sapir Whorf. Many contributors.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mactrans.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 12681&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban and machine translation by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| moody.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 18972&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban and other planned languages by Todd Moody&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lojb_esp.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 180734&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban and Esperanto - JL discussions including comments from Donald Harlow and Lojban&#039;s &#039;Answer&#039; to the &#039;16 Rules&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lojling.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 18942&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban&#039;s relevance to linguistics and linguistics research&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| reply.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 38747&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| 1991 Reply to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 &amp;quot;Language&amp;quot; Review of Loglan 1&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| netdisc.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 178912&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Extracted Network Discussions of Lojban and Sapir-Whorf - mostly 8-9/90 &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Lojban Text &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lordpray.unf&lt;br /&gt;
| 7781&lt;br /&gt;
| 10-14-91&lt;br /&gt;
| Lojban Paternoster, updated to current language. A prosaic version. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| style=&amp;quot;text-align:center;&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | Other materials &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| l1longrv.txt&lt;br /&gt;
| 70543&lt;br /&gt;
| 6-08-91&lt;br /&gt;
| unpublished draft review - Loglan 1&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
---------------------------------- --------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following unofficial files are known to be in the lojban directory of the Planned Languages Server:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| brochure.french&lt;br /&gt;
| 49403 &lt;br /&gt;
| 05-11-90&lt;br /&gt;
| A French translation of a somewhat earlier version of the Lojban brochure.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Description&lt;br /&gt;
| 2334&lt;br /&gt;
| 01-09-92&lt;br /&gt;
| The official PLS description file of all files in the Lojban directory. Not as detailed or as accurate as this file.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| elecread.me&lt;br /&gt;
| 815&lt;br /&gt;
| 06-24-91&lt;br /&gt;
| An obsolete version of this file that should soon be deleted&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Index&lt;br /&gt;
| 1280&lt;br /&gt;
| 01-03-92&lt;br /&gt;
| The file list you get in response to the command &amp;quot;index lojban&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lojbroch.e-o.tex&lt;br /&gt;
| 69755&lt;br /&gt;
| 09-12-91 &lt;br /&gt;
| The draft Esperanto translation of the Lojban brochure in brochure.eng Comments and suggestions welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| metflidjimao-vedsia&lt;br /&gt;
| 23871&lt;br /&gt;
| 12-19-90&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| welding-shop&lt;br /&gt;
| 27415&lt;br /&gt;
| 12-19-90&lt;br /&gt;
| Jim Carter&#039;s 1984 Loglan short story and English translation - not Lojban compatible nor consistent with the current TLI language, it is still one of the longest Loglan texts written originally in Loglan rather than in translation.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Forthcoming Material we hope to post this year ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* 6 Draft Textbook Lessons - updated to 1992 language&lt;br /&gt;
* New Draft Textbook Lesson 1&lt;br /&gt;
* Esperanto Translation of Lojban Brochure - Official Release (the unofficial &amp;quot;lojbroch.e-o.tex&amp;quot; above is a draft version of this release)&lt;br /&gt;
* Glossary of Lojban/linguistic terminology&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban and Sapir-Whorf Bibliography&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban and Prolog demonstration example from JL16&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban gismu etymologies&lt;br /&gt;
* Rebaselined gismu list&lt;br /&gt;
* Revisions to the Lojban mini-lesson&lt;br /&gt;
* the JL16 version of the Diagrammed Summary of Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
* Synopsis of Lojban Orthography, Phonology, Morphology - updated to 1992&lt;br /&gt;
* tense paper - introduction to Lojban tense structures&lt;br /&gt;
* attitudinal paper - updated to 1992&lt;br /&gt;
* logical connectives paper - introduction to logical and nonlogical connectives&lt;br /&gt;
* MEX paper - Lojban expression of mathematical text&lt;br /&gt;
* lerfu paper - expressing alphabets and special symbols in Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
* (papers are planned to cover other aspects of the Lojban grammar and will also be posted as available)&lt;br /&gt;
* All published Lojban text; Not updated to current language. Mostly translated &amp;amp; with commentary. Probably with some kind of difficulty and quality grading to help you choose appropriate materials. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Abbreviated instructions for the PLS server ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To make the archive server do something you should send an electronic mail message to: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
langserv@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Use a null subject line. The body of the message should consist of one command per line. The case of the text does not matter. Note, however, that the server runs on a UNIX system, and thus, for filenames, the case DOES matter, so be sure the files you request are properly capitalized. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can find out what files are available with the command &amp;quot;index lojban&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
path &amp;lt;mail-path&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Path&amp;quot; is used to override the mail path that the archive server chooses from the header of your mail message. You should use this whenever you know that the return address of your message will not be useful to the archive server. The archive server only knows about domain style address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
e.g. path jbaltz@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
send &amp;lt;archive&amp;gt; &amp;lt;file..&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Send&amp;quot; mails to you the files in the specified archive. All of the files that you request will be sent to you archived together possibly encoded and split up into messages that are small enough to be mailed. You may have as many &amp;quot;sends&amp;quot; in the body of your mail message as you wish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
e.g. send lojban logdata.raw&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By default, files that are mailable are simply stuck together with the text &amp;quot;cut here&amp;quot; between files and; non-mailable files are archived via Unix &amp;quot;tar&amp;quot;. Non-mailable files must be converted to something mailable. By default this is done with &amp;quot;uuencode&amp;quot;. Some large or long-lined Lojban files may be considered non-mailable, and you will need to run the companion program &amp;quot;uudecode&amp;quot; which will decode a message that was encrypted using &amp;quot;uuencode&amp;quot;. This is a standard Unix command; Unix users should see your system administrator if you don&#039;t know how to do this. On MS-DOS machines, there are a variety of utility versions of the decoding tool; we have no information about other computer system versions. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Logfest 92 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of Athelstan&#039;s injury and other schedule problems, we have delayed LogFest 92, la lojbangirz.&#039;s annual meeting and gathering of Lojbanists until August. The planned date for this gathering here in Fairfax VA, is August 14-17, 1992. If you&#039;re interested in coming, and especially if you will be travelling from out-of-town, please let us know. As usual, we can accommodate several out-of-town visitors as sleeping-bag guests here at Bob and Nora&#039;s house. You can get here via subway from all major transportation services into Washington DC, and you&#039;re unlikely to need a rental car. Thus, it&#039;s a cheap weekend of Lojban fun - we ask only that attendees donate around $25-$40 or whatever to cover food costs for the weekend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Originally, LogFest was planned for the last weekend in June (June 26-28, 1992). Because some people already made plans to come in from out-of-town, we will dedicate that weekend to Lojban activities as well, and others are invited to come, too, making in effect a second LogFest this summer. This first gathering in June will be informal; since there will be no formal meeting, there should be plenty of time for a variety of Lojban activities, especially activities for new people who want to get started in learning the language. Let us know if you are planning to come, so we can make plans. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Language Development Status ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language has been quite stable in the last several months. With the breakup of the USSR, we have added cultural gismu for &amp;quot;Ukrainian&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Slavic&amp;quot;. There have been a few cmavo additions, and one or two deletions in connection with work by John Cowan on papers describing the Lojban tense system, mathematical language, and representation of foreign alphabets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Far more significant has been those papers themselves, which have greatly refined the specificity of the language definition in three areas that have not been much used by people trying to use Lojban. John is continuing to work on papers, which, added to (updated versions of) the negation and attitudinal papers that were done before he started, will eventually amount to a complete and detailed description of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People have been justifiably frustrated by the continuing delay in textbook and dictionary publication. However, this state should not stop most people from being able to learn and use Lojban. Indeed, with the possible exception of Esperanto (and only then because so much has been written about it in 100 years), it can safely be said that Lojban is by far the most thoroughly defined artificial language that has ever existed. And we continue to refine that definition - not so much because people need such details to learn the language, but because linguists and computer researchers seeking to use Lojban for applications need as much detail as possible to plan research activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final development activities of significance are those that are tied to preparation of the first Lojban book, which is a proto-dictionary and reference book. Preparing this book has required a complete and detailed review of the gismu list place structures, trying to make them as clear and detailed as possible, given limited space. There also were some place structure changes needed as a result of the &#039;sumti-raising&#039; change discussed last issue, and also as a result of other design decisions made over the last few years. We also wanted to add in multiple English synonyms where applicable, so that the English side of the resulting dictionary will no longer be limited to the sometimes-inaccurate unique English keywords that the gismu list currently is based on. In a few cases, actual usage has pointed up a need for change, either because the place structure was too vaguely defined for use, or because the sumti values that were required for some place structure places were too difficult to specify for &#039;real&#039; language use. As a result, there are a lot of little changes to the working draft versions of the gismu list. The final draft is expected to go out for review within a couple of weeks after this issue is mailed (over 1100 of the 1400 Lojban entries were completed and verified at this writing). After a few weeks for that review, the first book will be assembled and published. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Weekend Meeting ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We finally knew for sure that the design of the language was solidified after an all-weekend meeting that took place January 18-20, 1992. John Cowan came to town, and several of us met, settling nearly all open design questions. Following is a more thorough report on that meeting, what happened, and what design decisions took place. Attendees included Bob LeChevalier (lojbab), John Cowan, Nora LeChevalier, Athelstan, and Sylvia Rutiser, with pc joining in by phone a couple of times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original agenda included:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A 2nd review of papers on the Lojban tense system and MEX (mathematical expressions) system, with the intent of having them ready, if possible, for publication with JL16.&lt;br /&gt;
* Nora and John have been working on a formal statement of the Lojban morphology algorithm, and some issues needed resolution and decision.&lt;br /&gt;
* Deciding on all open cmavo questions, to allow a baseline of that list.&lt;br /&gt;
* Reviewing all open comments on the place structures and definitions of gismu&lt;br /&gt;
* Review of the progress in switching JL over to a subscription basis and the current fundraising drive&lt;br /&gt;
* Preliminary decisions on book publishing&lt;br /&gt;
* Determining a policy on efforts by Dave Cortesi, Bob Chassell, and others to put together Lojban reference books.&lt;br /&gt;
* Including John in a Lojban conversation session (he has never before been able to participate in one, since no one else in the NYC area seems to be actively studying).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John arrived late Friday night, and we started the weekend right by talking till 4 AM. Athelstan arrived about 2 AM to join the party. Most of Saturday was spent socializing and discussing business matters, and various minor issues, and reviewing the tense paper. Saturday night, we again quit late, around 5 AM this time, with everyone rising in time to be fully awake for the Lojban conversation session. That ended up starting late, but the 5 of us participated in fairly lively discussion for about 2 hours. John had no real trouble following what was said, and throwing his own comments in. We then talked in English for about an hour until Sylvia and Athelstan had to leave.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After dinner, we started on place structures, and kept going until 5 AM again. We resumed around 11 AM, and kept cranking till 5 AM Tues. morning. Athelstan was there for all of Monday&#039;s discussions, Nora lasted until 10:30 PM, since she had to work on Tuesday. There was a long conversation with pc in the afternoon to resolve issues that he needed a voice/vote in. Monday evening, we took a break from the x1&#039;s and x2&#039;s of place structures to work on the x&#039;s and y&#039;s of MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On Tuesday, John and I woke around 11 AM, and kept talking till I dropped him at the bus station around 1 PM. Whew! Everything accomplished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here is the summary of effects: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Grammar ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar is of course baselined and frozen until we make updates and republish it in the Lojban books. Because we want the books to reflect the grammar after the books are done, we do our writing based on that next revision of the grammar. There are now 15 minor changes planned for that revision, all but 4 being extensions to the language. When we write and publish materials in JL, they should be in accordance with the current baseline. Next- baseline grammar changes will only be used in the unlikely circumstance that something needs to be phrased using a construct that is now illegal, but which would be allowed under the new grammar. Because we want people to stick with the current baseline, we are not going to distribute or talk much more about the next one until it is ready for adoption (at the time of publication of the first book), but people who have an early need for the information can request it. I will summarize the changes in store so people know what is going on:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# correction of a precedence error, so that EK+KE and GIhEK+KE bind more tightly than other connective structures;&lt;br /&gt;
# adding JEK+BO to parallel BO connective structures for other logical connectives;&lt;br /&gt;
# permitting free modifiers in several new places;&lt;br /&gt;
# adding selma&#039;o ZEI to support a morphology algorithm change (see below);&lt;br /&gt;
# permitting &amp;quot;GEK sentence GI observative&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# in the current baseline grammar, it is impossible to use a PA+MAI free-modifier after a number even though it is apparently grammatically legal: the number will absorb the added PA values because there is no implicit &amp;quot;BOI&amp;quot; at the end of these numbers. The problem was fixed by reworking the rules specifying how free modifiers attach to numbers so that BOI can be added to separate them.&lt;br /&gt;
# after long analysis, the relative-modifier logical connective selma&#039;o ZIhE was determined not to be especially useful as a logical connective, and the group has been stripped down to the single word &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot;, which now simply indicates the attachment of multiple relative modifiers to a single sumti. The multiple logical connective grammar rules that were present for ZIhE were stripped down to a single rule supporting simple connection;&lt;br /&gt;
# allowing I+BO-initial sentences at the beginning of text;&lt;br /&gt;
# allowing NAI at the beginning of text;&lt;br /&gt;
# allowing any kind of JOI non-logical connectives to be used in forethought, in parallel with forethought causal connectives: JOI GI construct GI construct;&lt;br /&gt;
# POhO, which has been required at the end of incomplete sentences, will be eliminated; POhO was added at one point due to problems found in some versions of YACC (including the one we were using) that caused a parser to falsely declare an ambiguity in such incomplete sentences. POhO has been shown to no longer be necessary;&lt;br /&gt;
# NIhE, one of the converters used to integrate MEX with the rest of the grammar, now permits an entire complex selbri construct to be converted;&lt;br /&gt;
# NAhE is disallowed in forethought &#039;termsets&#039;. The rule permitting it had been erroneously generated from a similar structure. Contrary negation of a termset is not defined in the negation paper.&lt;br /&gt;
# Multiple I and/or I+BO are permitted at the beginning of text (a benefit primarily for those who stutter);&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow SE conversions of abstract and negated selbri without KE/KEhE parentheses. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If that list doesn&#039;t make a lot of sense, don&#039;t worry about it. These truly are abstruse &#039;little&#039; changes in the grammar that are unlikely to affect anyone&#039;s conversation and writing very much, if at all. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Morphology ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John and Nora have resolved all open issues regarding the morphology algorithm, and it is included in JL16 for final review before publication in the reference book. Problems included strings of vowels and lujvo involving le&#039;avla. Since the morphology is baselined, technically any change is a baseline change, but all changes being considered are in areas not well-defined in the existing informal &#039;Synopsis&#039; that describes the morphology. Highlights (again, these are post-book baseline features.):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Adding selma&#039;o ZEI, with only cmavo &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;, will eliminate various other schemes of making lujvo using le&#039;avla, all of which involved either tricky stress/- pronunciation problems or had potential breakdowns of a nature similar to the &#039;Tosmabru test&#039; used in regular lujvo. The result would have been rules so unintuitively complicated as to make them impractical to use on-the-fly, when most such compounds will be made. ZEI is processed in advance of lexer rules (as is BU for lerfu and ZO, LOhU, ZOI, SI, SA, and SU) as part of the metalinguistic grammar. It causes one word immediately before it and one word immediately after it to be considered joined into a single construct equivalent to a BRIVLA. With the exception of some of those metalinguistic cmavo just listed, any Lojban word can be so joined to any other, allowing lujvo to be based on cmavo that have no rafsi, as well as le&#039;avla. Many-part le&#039;avla lujvo will have a ZEI between each pair of terms. Regular gismu and lujvo may also be used as terms in a ZEI lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
* cmavo space is now recognized to include certain structures with 0 or 1 consonant, followed by more than two vowels, with apostrophe used between every pair (except when diphthongs occur). Thus &amp;quot;zo&#039;o&#039;o&#039;o&amp;quot; could be a legal cmavo (with an obvious meaning of a more intense humor?) These will not be considered for defined use, but are added to the experimental cmavo space. The grammar will treat all experimental and undefined cmavo as if they were members of UI. &lt;br /&gt;
* When one word ends in a vowel, and the following begins with one, a pause, and not a glide, must be used to pronounce them. This confirms the original design decision. Actual usage has been that some UI members have not been separated from each other and other vowels by pauses, and this was determined to be too difficult for the resolver to handle, so it remains forbidden. An example is &amp;quot;.ua.ui&amp;quot; which has been pronounced &amp;quot;/wah,wee/&amp;quot;, but must be pronounced as &amp;quot;/wah.wee/&amp;quot;. An example showing the problems that can result is &amp;quot;.ui.iu&amp;quot;, which if pronounced without a pause is indistinguishable from &amp;quot;.ui,u&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
* Names will be permitted to have &amp;quot;la&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; in them WHEN PRECEDED BY A CONSONANT. This means that the &#039;d&#039; or &#039;l&#039; must be the at-least-2nd in a consonant cluster such that the preceding letter and the d/l form a permissible cluster, or are initial at the beginning of a word. This means that a name &amp;quot;zdoil.&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;jdoil.&amp;quot; is legal, and every consonant except another &amp;quot;l&amp;quot; is permitted before &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot;. Thus while &amp;quot;*nort.kerolainas.&amp;quot; remains illegal, it can easily be changed to &amp;quot;nort.kerlainas.&amp;quot;. This will then allow a certain erroneous comic strip to be corrected, by naming the cat &amp;quot;mlat.&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;*lat.&amp;quot; remaining illegal. It also corrects the embarrassment that the other English name of the language - &amp;quot;loglan.&amp;quot; - has been an illegal name in &amp;quot;lojban.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
* Names are formally restricted from having impermissible medial consonant clusters in them. The most significant effect of this is to require the name &amp;quot;*djeimz.&amp;quot; to be changed, since &amp;quot;mz&amp;quot; is not a permissible medial. &amp;quot;djeimyz.&amp;quot; is acceptable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== cmavo ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following cmavo changes are made. Note that one the cmavo, &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot;, has grammar contingent upon the next baseline. It will be in the next draft of the cmavo list anyway, even though the current grammar will not handle it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zei&lt;br /&gt;
| ZEI&lt;br /&gt;
| lujvo glue&lt;br /&gt;
| joins preceding and following word into a lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ne&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
| VUhU&lt;br /&gt;
| factorial &lt;br /&gt;
| reassigned from &amp;quot;zei&amp;quot; to make room for above&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
| coincident with &lt;br /&gt;
| space/time tense equivalent of CA&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| be&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| FAHA&lt;br /&gt;
| north of &lt;br /&gt;
| from &amp;quot;berti&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ne&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
| south of &lt;br /&gt;
| from &amp;quot;snanu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| du&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
| east of &lt;br /&gt;
| from &amp;quot;stuna&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| vu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
| west of &lt;br /&gt;
| parallel with &amp;quot;du&#039;a&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(these are added for compatibility with languages/cultures that use a fixed reference frame for directions instead of a speaker-based one. A secondary if trivial advantage is that a Lojban wind-vane is more interesting, instead of having the letters B-S-S-S for the four cardinal points.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| voi&lt;br /&gt;
| NOI&lt;br /&gt;
| descriptive&lt;br /&gt;
| clause non-veridical restrictive clause used to form complicated le- like descriptions using &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is in a way similar to &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;/GOI, but used with clauses (bridi) on the right. It defines a sumti on the left as being the thing the speaker has in mind which fills &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; in the clause. Nick Nicholas asked for this in connection with an alternate approach to sumti-raising that he prefers to &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;. Example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| voi&lt;br /&gt;
| lenu ke&#039;a cisma&lt;br /&gt;
| cu&lt;br /&gt;
| pluka&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| cu &lt;br /&gt;
| zutse&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| The it1&lt;br /&gt;
| whose&lt;br /&gt;
| smiling&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| pleases&lt;br /&gt;
| me&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| sits.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;8&amp;quot; | The one whose smile pleases me is sitting down. &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| BY&lt;br /&gt;
| lower case shift&lt;br /&gt;
| reassigne d from current &amp;quot;voi&amp;quot;; from &amp;quot;tordu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ma&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
| BAI&lt;br /&gt;
| of material&lt;br /&gt;
| used to add a material to a bridi more specific than the existing &amp;quot;seta&#039;i&amp;quot;; from &amp;quot;marji&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| de&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| ZAhO&lt;br /&gt;
| pausitive event contour&lt;br /&gt;
| for a temporary halt and ensuing pause in a process; from &amp;quot;denpa&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| di&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| ZAhO&lt;br /&gt;
| resumptive even t contour&lt;br /&gt;
| for resumption of a paused process&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| de&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| citka&lt;br /&gt;
| ca&lt;br /&gt;
| lenu la&lt;br /&gt;
| noras.&lt;br /&gt;
| tavla&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| pausitively&lt;br /&gt;
| eat&lt;br /&gt;
| while&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| Nora&lt;br /&gt;
| talks.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;7&amp;quot; | I stop eating while Nora talks.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| vu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
| LUhI&lt;br /&gt;
| the sequence&lt;br /&gt;
| converts other sumti types to sequences, even if the order is vague&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| va&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| BAI&lt;br /&gt;
| benefited by&lt;br /&gt;
| indication of a beneficiary when formulated as &amp;quot;seva&#039;u&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;for the benefit of&amp;quot;; from &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (replaces a useful function of the word &amp;quot;du&#039;a&amp;quot;, deleted last year as an English-biased member of BAI)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| BAhE&lt;br /&gt;
| de-emphasize next&lt;br /&gt;
| the reverse of &amp;quot;ba&#039;e&amp;quot; which emphasizes the next word - added in emulation of a similar function word in the Mongolian language Dagur&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ce&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| LAU&lt;br /&gt;
| font shift&lt;br /&gt;
| change of selma&#039;o; indicates that the following character specifies a new font (e.g. italic, block print, or manuscript). Supersedes old &amp;quot;ce&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;pe&#039;e&amp;quot; which were too limited; the latter is now unassigned.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(In addition, the grammar changes described above also freed up po&#039;o, zi&#039;a, zi&#039;i, zi&#039;o, and zi&#039;u.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
remaining unassigned (27): &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
bi&#039;a bi&#039;e bu&#039;o (bo&#039;a bo&#039;e bo&#039;i bo&#039;o bo&#039;u) ce&#039;e ce&#039;u ci&#039;a do&#039;i ja&#039;u ju&#039;e mi&#039;i na&#039;a ne&#039;e pe&#039;e po&#039;o re&#039;u te&#039;i va&#039;e vu&#039;o zi&#039;a zi&#039;i zi&#039;o zi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== gismu ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following two gismu are proposed for addition to the baselined list, and will be adopted pending no objection:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| vukro&lt;br /&gt;
| vuk vu&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
| Ukrainian&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to the Ukrainian language/- culture/nation in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| slovo&lt;br /&gt;
| lov&lt;br /&gt;
| Slavic&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to Slavic languages/culture/- ethnos in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| (lovle&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| Cyrillic&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a letter of Cyrillic alphabet symbolizing x2)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These have been reviewed by Ivan Derzhanski, as our only active native-Slavic Lojbanist. The breakup of the Soviet Union, has made Ukraine a large country with a Russian speaker base, one with a Slavic language of its own and a nationalistic interest in being clearly distinct from Russia and the ex-Soviet Union. (The definition of &amp;quot;softo&amp;quot; is being broadened to cover the old Russian empire and the new Commonwealth, but remains tied to the keyword &#039;Soviet&#039; because there really is no other distinct word.) Our standards for cultural gismu clearly put Ukraine in the group that should have a gismu. (The other republics, except Russia itself, will be covered with le&#039;avla.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With two Slavic peoples represented, the family name also requires a gismu (as &amp;quot;semto&amp;quot; exists to cover Hebrew and Arabic commonalties). As shown, this gismu will also be used to generate a lujvo for &amp;quot;Cyrillic&amp;quot;, a better choice than &amp;quot;rusko&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;softo&amp;quot; for making a lujvo for that concept, anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Keyword changes ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following constitute baseline changes, even though there is no significant change of meaning. They will be considered adopted unless there is objection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All metric prefixes currently have keywords of the form:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 megdo     10E6&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has been pointed out that this does not conform to most exponential notations. The keywords will be globally changed to use &amp;quot;1&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;10&amp;quot; giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 megdo     1E6&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are being changed to make them consistent with other culture words by referring to the culture rather than to the defining element of the culture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| budjo&lt;br /&gt;
| Buddhist&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to the Buddhist culture/- religion/nation in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dadjo&lt;br /&gt;
| Taoist&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to the Taoist culture/religion/nation in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jegvo&lt;br /&gt;
| Jehovist&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to culture/religion of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic deity in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xriso&lt;br /&gt;
| Christian&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pertains to the Christian culture/- religion/nation in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The change in keyword of &amp;quot;mukti&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;motive&amp;quot;, part of the last baseline change, did not get into the Planned Languages Server file for some reason, along with appropriate definition wording changes. Some copies of LogFlash were distributed with this change omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== rafsi ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;du&amp;quot; will be added to the list as a result of being assigned the rafsi &amp;quot;dub&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;du&#039;o&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;selci&amp;quot; is being given &amp;quot;sle&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;selfu&amp;quot;, which in turn will be given &amp;quot;sef&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;sefta&amp;quot;. (Since the January meeting, we have compiled a list of all lujvo used thus far in Lojban text. This will be used to generate a more accurate tuning of the rafsi assignments to reflect expected usage. A few additional rafsi changes are likely to result, and will appear in the completed book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Place structures ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We cannot list all of the place structure changes and definition changes being made for the new baselined list. Based on decisions at the weekend meeting, about 20% of the words will have some change from the draft &amp;quot;logdata.raw&amp;quot; list posted to the PLS and distributed to advance recipients of the new LogFlash (We were BUSY!). Most of these are minor and clarifying. (The complete review that Bob is doing while typing in these changes has resulted in many more minor changes, mostly clarifications in wording).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some general notes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Bob Chassell proposed a large set of synonyms be listed; these are being added to the definition field to make computer searches of the list easier. These synonyms will also show up in the dictionary as additional English entries.&lt;br /&gt;
* A clarification of sets and masses and sequences and their roles as place holders in bridi caused many changes in wording. All places where these have been identified as likely placeholders have been examined and will be identified if space permits.&lt;br /&gt;
* Several &#039;properties&#039; gismu which are generally considered subjective, have gained a &#039;by standard&#039; place. The standard may only the personal one of the observer, whatever that may be. Colors are NOT included in this change.&lt;br /&gt;
* More care is being taken with &#039;under conditions&#039; places. In many cases, an &#039;under conditions&#039; place may be appropriate to some event/state within a single place of a bridi, rather than applying to the main bridi itself.&lt;br /&gt;
* The use of &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; abstractions is clearly distinguished in place structures dealing with truths. Some places dealing with knowledge and truth have been cleft paralleling the &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; place structure change in JL15.&lt;br /&gt;
* All known cleft place structures have been reviewed, with more than half eliminated by putting an event clause in x1. A few, such as &amp;quot;simlu&amp;quot;, are remaining cleft, but are worded so as to suggest &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; property abstractions instead of events in the cleft abstraction place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are particularly significant changes in meaning. Since there is no keyword change, these are not considered relevant to the baseline; place structures have never been frozen. The wording is abbreviated and approximate, and there may be further changes before the list is finally frozen. For now, however, this will clarify the meanings of many words, and should give a good idea as to the nature of the most major changes being made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| balvi&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is in the future of/- later than/after x2 in time (ONLY; cf. lidne)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bilni&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is military/- regimented/strongly organized/prepared by system x2 for purpose x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| caxno&lt;br /&gt;
| (paralleling condi below)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cfari&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (nu) commences/- begins/initiates/starts (intransitive) [no change, but cf. sisti)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cimde&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a dimension of space/object x2 according to rules/model x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| clupa&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a loop/circuit in/of material x2 defined by (set of points) x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a structure word having grammar exemplified by word x2 with meaning function x3 in language x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| condi&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is deep in extent in x2 (ka) at locus x3 away from observation point x4 by standard x5&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cpare&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 climbs/clambers/- crawls/creeps on surface x2 in direction x3 using x4 (tools, limbs)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| danfu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is the answer/- response to question x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dargu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a road with route x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fancu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a function/single- value mapping from domain x2 to range x3 defined by rules x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is an event that happens/occurs&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| flalu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a law specifying x2 (nu) for community x3 (mass) under conditions x4 by law-giver x5&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| funca&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (nu) is determined by the luck/fortune of/for x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is agent in event x2; x1 &#039;does&#039; x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gradu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (magnitude) is a unit/degree of/on scale/- reference standard x2 (idea/- si&#039;o) measuring x3 (ka)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gunma&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a mass/team/is together, of components x2 considered jointly&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jbini&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is between/among set of boundaries x2 in x3 (ka)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jdika&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is decreased/reduced in x2 (ka) by amount x3 (no change but cf. zenba)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kancu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 counts the number in set x2 to be x3 (ni/number) in units x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| karli&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a collar surrounding x2 of material x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| krefu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a recurrence/- repetition of x2 (nu) for the x3th (ni/number) time; x1 happens again&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kusru&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (person) is cruel/- mean to x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lacpu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 pulls/tugs/drags x2 by handle at locus x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lafti&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 lifts/applies lift to x2 at locus x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lidne&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 leads/precedes x2 in sequence x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| naxle&lt;br /&gt;
| (paralleling dargu above)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pajni&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 judges/is a judge determining/deciding matter x2 (ka/ni/jei abstraction) (estimate/evaluate)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| panra&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is parallel to x2 in property/pattern x3 by standard/geometry x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pikta&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a ticket entitling x2 to privilege/entitlement x3 (nu) under conditions x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| platu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 plans/designs/plots plan/plot/arrangement x2 for state/process x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| porsi&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (sequence) is sequenced/ordered by comparison/rules x2 on set (unordered) x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| prami&lt;br /&gt;
| (paralleling xebni below)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| prina&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (agent) prints x2 on x3 using tool x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| purci&lt;br /&gt;
| (paralleling balvi above)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ritli&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a rite/ceremony/- ritual/is formal(legal) for purpose x2 under custom x3, under rules/form x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| selci&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a cell/atom/- molecule/unit of x2; x1 is an indivisible basic subunit of x2 (cf. English &#039;atom&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| simlu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 appears to have property x2 to x3 under conditions x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sirji&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is straight/direct/- line segment/interval between x2 and x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sisti&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (agent) ceases/- stops/halts doing/being x2 (cf. cfari WHICH IS DIFFERENT)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| skiji&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a ski/skid/skate/- runner for surface x2 (for) supporting skier/skater/sled/- cargo x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| suksa&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (nu) is sudden/abrupt at stage/achievement x2 in process x3; x1 (ka) suddenly changes at point x2 over interval x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| talsa&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (person) challenges x2 in x3 (ka)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| trene&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a train (segmented-vehicle) of cars/- units (mass/sequence) in system/railroad/of owners x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| trina&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 attracts/lures x2 (person/action) with x3 (ka)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| venfu&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (person(s)) takes revenge on/retaliates against x2 (person(s)) for wrong x3 (nu) with vengeance x4 (nu)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| vorme&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a door/gate between x2 and x3 of/in/- through structure x4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xamsi&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is an ocean/sea/- gulf/atmosphere of planet x2 of fluid x3&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xanri&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (si&#039;o) exists in the imagination of/is imagined by/is imaginary/unreal to x2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xebni&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 hates x2 (object/- abstract)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xendo&lt;br /&gt;
| (paralleling kusru above)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xlura&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (agent) influences x2 into action/event/state x3 by influence/threat/lure x4 (cf. trina)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xrani&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 (nu) injures/harms/- damages victim x2 in property x3 resulting in injury x4 (za&#039;i/ka)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is a market/store/- exchange/marketplace selling x2 operated by x3/with participants x3 (mass agent)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zenba&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is increased/- augmented in x2 (ka/ni) by amount x3 (parallels with jdika)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zukte&lt;br /&gt;
| x1 is an &#039;entity&#039; employing means x2 for/towards end/purpose/goal x3&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan writes the following as further explanation of the set/mass/sequence/individuals changes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the aims of the place structure review was to examine all the place structures that were labeled &amp;quot;(plural/set)&amp;quot; to see whether an actual set was wanted, or merely one or more individuals. In addition, sometimes a mass seemed to be the right thing. The new place structures which Lojbab is typing up will contain a good deal of clarification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Essentially, a true set is required if the relationship does not hold of each member but only of the totality. For example, &amp;quot;kampu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;cnano&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;fadni&amp;quot; are all relationships between a set and one of its members (or a property thereof). If I am typical of (&amp;quot;cnano&amp;quot;) the set of persons, that doesn&#039;t mean that the relation &amp;quot;typical-of&amp;quot; holds between me and every individual person -- indeed, the idea of one person being typical of another makes no sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, we decided that &amp;quot;casnu&amp;quot; should have a mass, rather than either a set or plural individuals, in its x1 place. People may &amp;quot;casnu&amp;quot;, or participate in a discussion, even though not all of them say anything.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In many cases, &amp;quot;(plural/set)&amp;quot; came up where &amp;quot;between&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;among&amp;quot; was involved. Most of these we tried to reword to avoid the problem, which often resulted from excess generality. Thus a wall now separates exactly two things, and a door connects exactly two. (A wall may separate multiple pairs of things - my house from yours, my property from yours, Country 1 from Country 2 - all at once, but the relationship is still pairwise.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, the phrase &amp;quot;ordered set&amp;quot; was changed throughout to &amp;quot;sequence&amp;quot;, and the place structure of &amp;quot;porsi&amp;quot; is now something like &amp;quot;x1 is a sequence of the members of set x2 ordered by rules x3&amp;quot;. Sequences do not have the same level of support in Lojban as individuals, masses, and sets; however, we have long had the non-logical connective &amp;quot;ce&#039;o&amp;quot; which constructs them item by item. In addition, we added &amp;quot;vu&#039;i&amp;quot;, a converter of selma&#039;o LUhI, transforming a set into a sequence, as well as individuals into a sequence-in-extension.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It now seems that &amp;quot;fa&#039;u&amp;quot;, the non-logical connective for &amp;quot;respectively&amp;quot;, may be taken to generate a sequence-in-extension, thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| fa&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| do&lt;br /&gt;
| se&lt;br /&gt;
| cmene&lt;br /&gt;
| zo&lt;br /&gt;
| djan.&lt;br /&gt;
| fa&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| zo&lt;br /&gt;
| lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| (I&lt;br /&gt;
| respectively-with&lt;br /&gt;
| you)&lt;br /&gt;
| are-&lt;br /&gt;
| benamed&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| (&amp;quot;John&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
| respectively-with&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;quot;Lojbab&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot; logical connection will not do, as that would claim that each of us is named both &amp;quot;John&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Lojbab&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Status of Products ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have a lot of products in the works, and a few of them are done or nearly done. More significantly perhaps, several new products have been identified, and are in progress and in some cases near completion. The variety of Lojban products continues to multiply as new people get involved in its development.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One is of course the Diagrammed Summary of Lojban Grammar, included as an insert in this issue. This will form the major language explanatory text about the language for our introductory package. The Overview will be recast to talk mostly about the ideas of the language and not the grammar, and a glossary will be added. Eventually, this package will be assembled into one of our several book publications. Now for the other products: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mini-Lesson - Athelstan set the material of his &amp;quot;Lojban Mini-Lesson&amp;quot;, an hour-long presentation, down in text last summer and fall before his accident. We distributed draft copies electronically (the draft is available on the PLS - see above), and some two dozen people from 6 different countries have tried it and sent comments. Alas the revision effort was only partially done when the accident occurred, so the mini-lesson, planned for this issue and at one time an excuse for its delay, isn&#039;t yet ready.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People have in general found the mini-lesson to be a very good introduction to the language, as they found Athelstan&#039;s oral presentation similarly useful. Alas, on paper it takes a good deal more than an hour to work through. People have generally said that there are too many exercises and too few examples. A few of the examples and explanations are perhaps too oriented to English-native speakers, but we haven&#039;t figured a good way to correct that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the accident, it is likely that I (Bob) will have to finish the revision, and it will thus not be ready until JL17 or even JL18. The revised mini-lesson will also form part of the introductory package.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash - We have released the new version of LogFlash described in the last several issues. Both LogFlash 1 (gismu) and LogFlash 3 (cmavo) are being successfully used by several people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For those who want to learn rafsi, the older combined LogFlash 1/2 will continue to be available (LogFlash 2 teaches rafsi) until a new version is created - a new version of LogFlash 2 will be more difficult to develop than the other programs because the type of testing used in lessons is more diverse. The lujvo-making program will also be incorporated into the next revision of LogFlash 2. The priority of this revision depends primarily on people being interested in obtaining it - if you are ready to start using this program, or expect that you will be within 6 months, let us know and Nora will put more effort into this upgrade. The files for the old version are not being updated, hence several newly-added rafsi assignments and the couple of changes that have been made are not reflected in this old version. This has not proven to be a significant limitation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two &#039;problems&#039; with the current release, neither of which prevents effective use. The first is that we&#039;ve had no time to rewrite the user documentation. There are now an enormously increased number of user-selectable features in LogFlash, and documentation is needed to intelligently choose among them. You can experiment or ask - most of these functions are self-explanatory as to how they work, and playing around is not damaging to your learning effectiveness (though it can be time consuming given the number of options). However, explaining when and why each option is intended to be used takes a bit of work. Luckily, Nora has made the program effectively self-channelled - the default option at each menu choice progresses you through fairly optimal usage. I&#039;d like to promise the documentation soon, but I&#039;ll have to admit that it keeps getting shoved off for other priorities. When more people start buying the program, we will of course put high priority on completing the support documentation, and it will be available free-of-charge to those of you who have done without until then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other &#039;problem&#039; is that because of the above-mentioned revision of the gismu list, especially affecting place structures, the version of the list we are giving out at any particular time is subject to changes. These changes don&#039;t generally affect the learning process since place structures are provided for information purposes only, but since the lists being distributed are unofficial, people receiving them need to be fore-warned. Again, we will make updated files available to those who purchase copies now, probably at the time the first book is released.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The instability of the word files affects LogFlash 3 a bit more significantly because we are more freely changing words and keywords, as well as making a small number of additions and deletions to the cmavo list. The changes being made are typically minor, however, enough that we can finally feel comfortable in recommending that people use LogFlash 3 without too much fear of having to do a lot of relearning due to changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MacLojFlash - Both versions of LogFlash for the Apple MacIntosh are being updated for the new data files. Each version already had some of the features now incorporated into the original MS-DOS version, and will probably add new ones to keep the different versions roughly comparable in capabilities. The Hypercard Mac version by Dave Cortesi is being upgraded to Hypercard II; Richard Kennaway&#039;s original MAC version doesn&#039;t use Hypercard, is somewhat faster, but does not have voice synthesis of the words, and supports both the gismu and cmavo lists in one program. Richard&#039;s program is basically ready, awaiting only reasonably final word files. (Our difficulties in supporting the Mac continue, and we aren&#039;t going to release incremental in-progress Mac versions of the word-lists as we are doing with the original program.) The Mac programs are liable to be cheaper than the MS-DOS versions, partly because of the lower quality of support that we have been able to provide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Serious Volunteers Sought for LogFlash Research - The new version of LogFlash (MS-DOS version only) is instrumented for research into how well people learn Lojban words. This finally allows testing of the &#039;word recognition scores&#039; that were the basis of Loglan/Lojban word-making ever since the project started in the 1950s, as well as formally verifying the effectiveness of the LogFlash technique.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are looking for volunteers to use LogFlash in learning the Lojban vocabulary. At this point we have no constraint on who can volunteer, as long as you can state more or less honestly that you don&#039;t yet know much of the Lojban gismu vocabulary. Later on, we will have to add restrictions to ensure that our statistics are valid, but for now we are looking for patterns in the learning of individuals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no funding for this experiment - we can&#039;t pay anyone to participate. You will even have to buy the copy of LogFlash that you use to learn the words, because we need the money to stay in business right now. What we can promise is that someone who volunteers AND STICKS WITH THE EXPERIMENT ENOUGH TO GIVE US USEFUL RESULTS will be credited afterwards for the price of LogFlash and any other Lojban teaching materials you buy to study while participating in the experiment. We&#039;ll also give priority (subject to our limited funds) for volunteers who need financial assistance to obtain Lojban materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t a lot to offer for a commitment of 3-7 hours a week for 4-8 months (probably 100-150 hours total, about the same as the homework time for a typical college class), but the work isn&#039;t hard, and you will be doing it anyway if you are planning on learning the language. We need is people who will use LogFlash more or less daily for at least 1/2 hour a day (preferably an hour - learning may go 3 times as fast or better, at this more intense study rate; you learn quicker, and the experiment is shorter and more likely to show expected results.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other teaching products - We have contacted two firms that commercially produce language learning materials and gotten interest in assisting the Lojban project from each of them. One produces software that teaches you words and structures as you read a story or stories in Lojban (not a simplified text - you would learn to read most any Lojban text you come across). The other, International Learning Corporation, produces a series of materials called &amp;quot;The Learnables (tm)&amp;quot;, which are books of cartoons and pictures associated with extensive tapes. These materials are used effectively in college classes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both products have been recommended to us by more than one Lojbanist. Both organizations have indicated that they would be willing to license us to develop Lojban versions of their products at no cost to us other than the effort of developing the materials. The resulting materials should be extremely effective in teaching Lojban and offer the confidence of having been used effectively with other languages. The down-side of these materials is that they will probably be more expensive than our self-developed materials (for existing languages, the software package costs around $100 plus a small amount per story, while The Learnables costs around $45 for a book and 6 tapes, with 4 beginning and 4 advanced books covering the typical language - we can&#039;t promise to be able to sell Lojban materials for any less than the prices these organizations charge for other languages).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are significant opportunities to get awareness of Lojban out to a much larger audience, but we cannot justify the time to produce the materials unless there is some significant interest in the community in buying and using the resulting products. So we need to hear from you if you think you would buy the materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interlinear Glosser (and Parser) - This new project of Nora&#039;s stems from four unrelated problems. Because of the massive volume of Lojban text now being produced, Nora and I can no longer read and check it all - our own command of the language is not thorough enough for us to quickly check words and place structures, much less to comment the results thoroughly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People writing Lojban text tend to make word choice errors (e.g. lujvo-making errors, misspellings), and find it hard to catch these errors before &#039;inflicting&#039; them on others. A simple computerized spelling checker cannot fully solve this (even if you can build a dictionary file easily) because nearly all possible cmavo and lujvo word-forms are plausibly valid words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, people using the Lojban parser to check their work have found the outputs to be hard to use in an odd way. When there is an error, the parser tells you (approximately) where the error occurred, and you know where to look. If it finds no errors, the rather lengthy fully-parenthesized output contains complete grammatical structure information. Unfortunately, a lot of simple errors, including misspellings (noted above) and omitted terminators can lead to grammatically perfect text that means something quite different from what you intended. Reading the parser output to find such errors requires great care, as well as a certain sense of what types of errors to look for. It isn&#039;t being done too well, and people have found errors in text that seemed perfectly valid, even to the parser, when read carefully. (Though this might seem to be a threat to Lojban&#039;s viability as a understandable and logical language, the types of errors that are occurring seem to be of the types that fluent speakers wouldn&#039;t often make.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, one of the easiest first steps towards the computer applications for which Lojban is especially suitable is a Lojban-to-English translator. Nora has long been interested in producing a simple form of such a translator, both for study of the problems of machine translation, and as an effective teaching tool. She first did a rudimentary translator, handling a subset of the grammar of single Loglan sentences, on a tiny TRS-80 home computer back in 1981. Updating this program to use with Lojban has been difficult, because the varieties of sentences that are typical for Lojban are much more numerous than for earlier Loglan versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few months ago, we discovered a free-ware program called &amp;quot;Shoebox&amp;quot; (Summer Institute of Linguistics) that produces interlinear glosses from one language to another, using a simple word look-up technique and a specially designed word database. Mark Shoulson and others have set up this program to produce quite pretty glosses for Lojban text, but the translation is rather difficult to read, even when you know Lojban grammar - the words that are substituted are the keywords of our word-lists, which are not intended necessarily to be good translations; there is no provision for lujvo compounds, even though they are quite regular; several cmavo have no valid English gloss because they serve purely grammatical roles; and finally, Lojban&#039;s predicate grammar means that you need to analyze the grammatical situation to know whether to interpret the English equivalent of a Lojban word as a noun, a verb, and adjective, or an adverb - Shoebox is not sufficiently tailored to Loglan/Lojban&#039;s unique regularities to take advantage of them to produce a readable output.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Inspired by this, Nora started designing a grammar-smart interlinear glosser. Carl Burke has aided with some good design ideas, and the project is well underway. Indeed, the program already produces better glosses than the comparable Shoebox versions, even without many &#039;grammar smarts&#039;, because it recognizes Lojban word types, disassembles lujvo, recognizes numbers as a unit, and other simple Lojban-specific functions. It processes outputs from John Cowan&#039;s Lojban parser, separating a long text into separate sentences and other logical chunks for easier reading, and optionally retaining or deleting the structure bracketing and inserted elidable marker words that the parser provides in its output. We also have developed a &#039;dictionary&#039; suited for this program.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If there is demand, we can make the program available fairly shortly in its in-development form bundled with the parser (which it requires). We&#039;ll set a tentative price of $50 for the combination, partly because the program is incomplete; the final program may be more expensive. John Cowan&#039;s parser by itself is available for $25 (and may be available for some UNIX machines as well as MS-DOS). People who are writing a LOT of Lojban text, and sending it to us or posting it onto Lojban List, can probably convince us to provide a test version of either or both for free (especially if you cannot afford to pay for it) - we&#039;d rather have you be checking your text before we get it rather than be doing it ourselves. The user documentation and support on these programs will be quite limited until the glosser is completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are making these programs available primarily because some people are already finding them useful, not because we believe they are optimal products yet - if you are working often with the language, the program limitations will not much hinder their usefulness. Also, frankly, we need people to contribute more for our support, and having new products to sell gives you something for your money besides the good feeling of contributing to keeping this project alive. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cowan Papers, or &amp;quot;The Lojban Textbook Effort Grows Up&amp;quot; - 3 1/2 years ago (October 1988) I started to write a technical description and reference for Lojban. 40 pages and the first descriptive cmavo list were completed. Reviewers at that point basically told me that the text was not working - most people did not know the language well enough to use a reference that presumed basic knowledge of the grammar. The format was very poor as a teaching text. The result was the recommendation that I write a Lojban textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From January through June 1989, I wrote 6+ draft chapters of such a textbook while teaching the first Lojban class. About 150 people have gotten those lessons now, and a couple of dozen of these have studied the language well enough to write fairly effectively in the language. These draft lessons remain available and are the most thorough teaching materials we have for those trying to learn the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, the draft lessons, though they&#039;ve &#039;aged well&#039;, remain incomplete. I stopped writing when we realized that the basic structure of the course was not working in the way we intended and it was getting harder and harder to write lessons that built constructively on what had gone before. The completed textbook would be over 1000 pages, and simply wasn&#039;t good enough to justify that much effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I started a new draft in 1990, but it got only to page 50. Throughout 1990 and 1991, as others learned the language, the advances in teaching technique outstripped my writing ability. Indeed, under the able leadership of Nick Nicholas, the last year has shown a truly outstanding increase in the sophistication of our knowledge of Lojban expression, its style, and its semantics. But that evolution, and the dozens of little tiny changes in the corners of the language were stresses that hurt my confidence that I was teaching the language appropriately to the ways it is coming to be used. I&#039;ve also spent too much time dealing with our unending financial problems and simply coordinating the rapid expansion of our organization.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reference materials of the language continued to evolve as well, and, although the language itself is quite stable, our published descriptions of the language have edged towards obsolescence. The gismu list place structures were too short and vague, but the words themselves were quite stable, as were the rafsi affixes. The cmavo list was nearly as stable, but incessant little changes in the grammar coupled with major advances of our knowledge of how to communicate in Lojban have made a simple list of cmavo inadequate. The YACC-based formal grammar has similarly been quite stable; there were little changes and we had to update the baseline a year later, and a new baseline will take place when the first book comes out (though the number of grammar change proposals in the second baseline year have been less than half of those in the first year).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since every example in the textbook must be accurate and consistent with the reference lists, the more examples I&#039;ve put into the text, the shakier the result has become. Simply checking every example in the existing 6 chapters requires hours of work - the new textbook has several times as many examples for each key grammar point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, the YACC grammar is not too well understood by those who aren&#039;t used to that type of grammar definition. There are a lot of trees, with no sense of the forest. The shorter EBNF form of the grammar is better for some people, but it is still formalized and difficult for non-computer people. An especial lack is a series of examples showing all the various structures of the grammar, and discussing why they were present.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This lack of examples was a big hang-up in textbook writing, as well. I spent endless time trying to concoct meaningful examples of sentences that exemplified the points I was trying to make, which were limited in vocabulary, but still interesting. This is NOT my strong skill. Still, the 50 pages of the new draft textbook has dozens of examples and even more exercises.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When John Cowan first became involved in Lojban, 2 years ago, his first promised goal was the rather ambitious one of writing an example sentence for every gismu. He then decided instead to write one sentence for every cmavo, covering every variety of grammatical usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A nice ideal, but far too ambitious, as John found out. Some cmavo are permitted in a variety of usages but aren&#039;t pragmatically useful in most of them - at least not in a way that we English speakers can easily recognize. For example, it seems rather odd to contemplate the mathematical number &amp;quot;pi&amp;quot; treated like all other numbers and used as a digit, or to enumerate objects or events: &amp;quot;pi events of Mary going to the store&amp;quot; is irrational in more than one sense of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John&#039;s continuing work with the grammar has made him even more expert in its details than I am. He has performed the modifications to the YACC grammar for all the little changes of the last two years. In developing that expertise, he learned how thoroughly the language is defined, while how little of that design is yet set down on paper. He set to remedy this problem in the context of his previous goal, choosing to write a &amp;quot;selma&#039;o catalog&amp;quot; that would list all the grammatical components of the language, giving explanations and examples of the use of each of them. Maybe he wouldn&#039;t find one example for every word in every grammatical context, but at least there would be an example of each such grammatical form, and the result would show how the rules of the grammar interacted in actual usage (as opposed to the arcane formulae of the YACC grammar).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John spent several months on the selma&#039;o catalog, and created a very nice document that a few people have used effectively to learn about the language structures. The document has remained a draft, though, for several reasons. Basically, though, John realized that his goal remained far beyond what he was capable of writing. I&#039;m going to exaggerate the negatives to make the reasons clear - as I said, the document proved quite useful and informative for the limited audience of reviewers who already knew a bit about the language. Everyone who read it, including me, learned a lot from John&#039;s explanations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The draft selma&#039;o catalog is a couple of hundred paragraphs, with a couple of hundred cross-references; but the latter is not nearly enough. It turns out that so many of the structures are redundant to each other that it is difficult to write about individual word categories without referring to what is said elsewhere, or without repeating the same thing many times over. John also had to make use of so many technical jargon terms that a explanatory glossary was going to be needed that was fully as large as the catalog text, in order for the catalog to be understood by a beginner. Finally, because John wrote the catalog from start to end, it reads fairly well as a textual explanation of the selma&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, as a catalog reference work not intended to be read from start to finish, the document failed. Individual entries are hard to understand - even with all the cross-references, too much of the text presumes that the reader has read and understood what comes &#039;before it&#039; in the catalog. The result is like a dictionary wherein you must know and understand almost every word in the &#039;A&#039; section before trying to understand the &#039;B&#039; words, while &#039;C&#039; requires knowledge of both &#039;A&#039; and &#039;B&#039;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, although John created over a hundred example sentences for the selma&#039;o catalog, this is not nearly enough to exemplify the entire Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The selma&#039;o catalog will appear in print, probably in the first book to be published (see below). However, it needs to be integrated with other materials in that book, which will take a bit of work. It unfortunately cannot serve the purpose John originally set out for it - to exemplify the variety of cmavo and their usages in the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To accomplish the latter, John has undertaken and made excellent progress on a new approach. He has divided the grammar of Lojban into some 15 topics. There will be a paper on each topic, covering the cmavo used in the portion of the grammar that addresses that topic. A half dozen of these papers are done or nearly complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The topics are not an even division of the grammar - some topics can be covered in very few pages, while others need a lot of explanation and examples. On the average, the topics are being covered to at least the level of detail as the &amp;quot;On Lojban Negation&amp;quot; paper, which was published a couple of years ago with JL and is now distributed with &amp;quot;Package 3&amp;quot; for active language students. (John&#039;s writing in these new papers seems to me to be much more readable then my own in the negation paper.) Each paper has dozens of examples; in some of them, over a hundred examples may be found.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most important of the papers completed thus far is the tense paper included with this issue. One of the most thoroughly analyzed and designed aspects of Lojban, as distinguished from earlier versions of Loglan, the tense system benefits from pc&#039;s expertise in tense logic and its expression in the languages of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve said that the Lojban tense system is overdesigned - it allows the entire variety of tense-related expressions used by any of the world&#039;s languages, without particularly favoring any one approach. But each natural language has evolved a highly specialized and often idiomatic approach to expressing tense. The English speaker tackling Russian or Greek or Irish, all Indo-European languages, must learn elaborate tense systems involving perfective tenses that work entirely unlike those of English. Making the matter even worse, most English speakers are ill-educated as to the complexity of the tense structures of their own language, and the subtleties of nuance implicit in various forms of expression. As a result, a major failing people have in learning foreign languages is that they are unable to grasp the new ways of relating time and space embodied in the foreign language, and speak in a very stilted dialect that is difficult for natives to understand. (Most artificial languages have little or no thought put into their tense system, and probably never achieve the subtleties of meaning conveyed by natural language tenses.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense paper included in this issue will likely stretch your mind to envision new relationships in time and space as expressed in language, relationships that are not easily conveyed in English, if at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, at the moment I am writing this, I say that &amp;quot;I am writing JL16&amp;quot;. But since JL16 is not yet published, it doesn&#039;t yet exist while I write it (except as a figment of my imagination). In Lojban, we can make this clear by stating that I am writing the inchoative JL16.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another example, long my favorite, was coined by pc. Suppose X has a dog which he hits in punishment whenever it chews X&#039;s clothes. Indeed, he hits it so long that it sustains lasting injury, though a trip to the vet remedies much of this damage. Now suppose over a period of time, X continues this cruel behavior, the dog&#039;s condition deteriorates, and it dies. In English, we might say that &amp;quot;X kept on: kept on hitting the dog too long, too long.&amp;quot; But without the long-winded explanation, you would almost certainly consider that sentence both ungrammatical and nonsense, when it is neither. (And there is no way to clearly punctuate the sentence, either, as I just found out.) Lojban expresses this situation easily.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now think of one of those cartoons where the main character drives a motorboat across the lake, then continues up on shore and across the land. This situation is expressed in Lojban using a tense quite similar to that of the last example: the character kept on driving the motorboat too far &#039;on&#039; the lake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are all manner of other tense structures permitted in Lojban, some of which have no parallel in natural language. Lojban&#039;s tenses are symmetrical with respect to time - you can talk about future events in as elaborate detail as you can talk about past ones, whereas some natural languages (including English) have only a very degenerate grammar for talking about things to come.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will people find Lojban&#039;s tense grammar enabling? Or will its many unusual forms never find use, and fall by the wayside. We&#039;ll only come to know after people have a chance to learn from a thorough explanation of the tense system, such as John has now provided us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a list of the papers currently planned, and their status:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* morphology, phonology, and orthography (written and published, needs stylistic rewrite to match later papers);&lt;br /&gt;
* negation (written and published, needs minor update and reworking to be stylistically consistent with later papers);&lt;br /&gt;
* attitudinals/metalinguistics (written and published, needs major rewrite adding many examples);&lt;br /&gt;
* tense (written and published with this issue);&lt;br /&gt;
* MEX: mathematical expressions (written and internally reviewed - to be published with JL17);&lt;br /&gt;
* logical connectives (written and in internal review);&lt;br /&gt;
* text structure (written and in internal review);&lt;br /&gt;
* lerfu (written and in internal review);&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not yet written (though in some cases planned in considerable detail) are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* abstraction;&lt;br /&gt;
* logical quantification;&lt;br /&gt;
* sumti structures - anaphora, descriptions, names, quotes, numbers;&lt;br /&gt;
* places and place structures;&lt;br /&gt;
* selbri structures;&lt;br /&gt;
* tanru making;&lt;br /&gt;
* anaphora;&lt;br /&gt;
* elidable terminators;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John will write most of these papers. I (Lojbab) will probably do a couple of them, possibly including the major rewrite of the attitudinal paper, a lesser rewrite of the negation paper, and writing some or all of the papers on tanru, elidables, and abstraction. These papers will probably take another year to be completed, reviewed, and integrated for publishing, but the resulting book will be a detailed explanation of all aspects of the Lojban grammar (called a &#039;reference grammar&#039; by linguists).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These papers will be an invaluable resource in creating examples and exercises to enrich the long-delayed Lojban textbook. Teaching of the intermediate and advanced aspects of the language that were not covered in the 6 draft lessons already written will be especially helped.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I went to describe John&#039;s papers, and the role that they fit in the documentation of the Lojban design, I realized that these collected papers will be nothing other than the Lojban technical description that I started back in 1988, before the textbook was conceived.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have come full circle. In a year, when the papers are complete and published, Lojban will be well-documented, and the language and its community will be much the richer for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob and Nora Studying Russian - Nora and I have started an intensive study of Russian. We are trying to adopt one or more young children from Russia, and will have to travel to that country, deal with children who have likely started to understand or even to speak Russian, and also to teach those children about their heritage as they grow up. (Yes, we also plan to teach our kids Lojban.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What does this have to do with Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our learning efforts started in April, and have already had a significant effect on the future textbook. Our situation in learning Russian is not too unlike the typical Lojbanist who wants to learn Lojban - we want to very quickly acquire as much competency in the language as we can, but have minimal opportunity to take formal classes or interact with native speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve spent a good chunk of money on textbooks, tapes, and other learning aids; we&#039;ve adapted LogFlash to the study of Russian vocabulary (surprisingly easy due to Nora&#039;s excellent program design foresight, even though Russian uses a keyboard and alphabet rather different from what normally appears on your computer screen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Only a month into the effort, I&#039;m learning what methods work for rapid self-teaching, and which do not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Nora and I learned Loglan/- Lojban, we acquired it slowly, over several years, without prepared materials to work from, and our level of skill until the last couple of years did not approach a useful level. Our experience was unlike what the new Lojbanist faces in trying to learn the language, and even more strongly different from the way we hope Lojbanists will learn the language in the future after the books and other materials are complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, our experience in studying Russian from prepared materials in a short time will more closely approximate the typical Lojbanist&#039;s situation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What have we learned? We need many more examples and exercises - each of the books we are using gives dozens of very simple exercises for each point taught, several exercises requiring use of each vocabulary word to be added to the learner&#039;s &#039;active&#039; vocabulary, and an incremental approach that adds new grammar features quickly (at least at our study pace) but only one at a time. We have also found that tapes are useful and indeed important to giving students confidence that they can actually speak the language, as they copy what is being said. Tape exercises give practice in listening to the language, as well as correction of the errors and other problems that creep into the self-teaching student&#039;s pronunciation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am also getting specifically helpful samples of style: how much explanation is appropriate and useful, and what type of wording is clearest. Indeed, some specific Russian pronunciation explanations will prove quite useful in explaining similar points about Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve spent a lot of thought on the textbook writing problem, and sent out a questionnaire to potential Lojban students on the computer networks. The problems I&#039;ve had in writing the textbook have included a lack of time, too many things to do, instability in the details of the language, and low morale. But the real problem was that I was trying to write a textbook with no real understanding of what a language textbook needs to contain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve spent a lot of time over the last 5 years examining language textbooks, their structure, and teaching techniques. I&#039;ve read over a dozen books on standard and unorthodox language teaching methodologies and on textbook writing for both commonly studied languages and for little-known languages for which native speaker materials are hard to acquire.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(You would be surprised how little agreement there is on teaching methodologies among language teaching professionals. Simply speaking, there is no methodology that has proven to work effectively for the wide variety of student backgrounds and goals. The best materials are those for learning English, but English-speaking natives like me cannot look at these materials and truly understand the methods being used, and how they might relate to designing materials for other languages - the best materials are quite unlike the ones native speakers study in English grammar class.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading means that I actually understand the techniques being used by the Russian textbook writers as they use them on me (the best Russian textbooks on the market were written in Russia by professionals there, and then translated and adapted for English-speaking audiences). I can see which techniques work well with a self-teaching student, and which would need two or more people, or even a class, to be effective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is no big surprise that the techniques that work best on me are quite similar to the LogFlash flash card technique. It IS significant, both to me, and potentially to people who design materials for other languages, how valuable an understanding of WHY I am doing an exercise helps me do that exercise better - I concentrate on what is important, and don&#039;t worry about the rest (I can tell this benefit because I can see the problems that Nora is having, not having had this background in language teaching theory.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It turns out that this new information will not affect the textbook writing I&#039;ve done thus far. We decided a long time ago to totally rewrite the materials in the draft 6 lessons in the new textbook, which will have a different organization, as well as a different style. The draft lessons, updated to the current language with minimal stylistic changes, will still be put out as a book later this year, because we can get it done quickly and because people have proven able to learn from the book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rewritten textbook has been stalled near the end of Chapter 1 for over a year - partly from lack of time, more recently from reduced priority. Chapter 1 is an overview of the entire language, a big-picture summary that attempts to get across the fundamental differences between Lojban and other languages in hopes that when we turn to a detailed, incremental buildup of language skills in succeeding chapters, people will have a framework to build upon. (It is rather difficult to properly teach about Lojban sentence features without knowing that Lojban sentences themselves are conceptually unlike English sentences.) It will take little work to adapt Lesson 1 for this new approach, but I now, finally, have some idea how to write Lesson 2 - which has been a significant hindrance on my writing. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Book Plans - Last issue, I expected that we would have one or two books completed by the end of the year, those books being composed of updated versions of already published materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Surprising few people, the books haven&#039;t yet happened. The distractions of the financial situation hurt both morale and concrete progress. More important, the documents that we intended to incorporate into book form have lots of elusive little inconsistencies which are taking a long time to resolve and document so that we don&#039;t introduce new errors as we correct the old. The January weekend meeting discussed above led to a lot of changes in the gismu list place structures, and all other documents have to be reconciled with those changes. A lot of progress has been made, though, and I can surely state that, except for the time I&#039;m taking to produce this JL issue, la lojbangirz. is decidedly in a book-producing mode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The number of books planned has increased as we produce the two originally identified. Here&#039;s the current plan:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Textbook - The existing draft textbook lessons will be updated to the current language and minor changes put in to reflect specific difficulties that people had with an explanation. This revision will take time, but isn&#039;t too difficult. Some added tutorial materials, dealing with topics not covered in the 6 lessons that are important to new Lojbanists will be appended, and the first chapter of the new draft textbook will serve as an overview at the beginning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thereafter, work will commence on writing the &#039;real&#039; textbook, using some of the ideas I&#039;ve learned from teaching the language since the first draft textbook was started in 1989, as well as from our learning Russian, as described above. This writing may take a year or two, so that the revised draft textbook is what there will be until then. The full textbook may run to 2 volumes - I haven&#039;t yet seen a textbook that gives conversational fluency in a language in even two books.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban, while simpler than most languages, still has a large vocabulary to learn. There is a minimum amount of vocabulary that must be mastered to converse fluently in any language. We have had little success in convincing people to get that head start on the vocabulary needed to make textbook learning flow smoothly. The draft lessons averaged 100 new words per lesson, and people in the first class did not do enough self-study of this vocabulary to have the vocabulary keep up with their grammar learning. The answer is smaller, shorter lessons, and some additional work on vocabulary teaching and drilling techniques. But language textbooks seem to set a target of around 1000-1200 words for a typical textbook, and this is only enough for rudimentary communication in most languages, including Lojban. Thus we will need 2 books to get people to active use vocabularies of 2000+ words, which is almost certainly the minimum needed for any real comfort in communicating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course people using LogFlash can get to that 2000 word level much more quickly, and without a book, since the gismu and cmavo in LogFlash 3 together amount to around 2000 words, and most of these have some use in conversation and writing. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reference Book/Dictionary - Originally the dictionary was going to come after the textbook. This has changed. As indicated last issue, we decided to assemble the various draft reference materials into a single book replacing our motley collection of printed handouts and reference lists with a single cheaper volume that is also up-to-date.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because we need up-to-date references in order to revise the draft textbook, we decided last year that this book was to come first. It has turned out that producing it was not a simple assembly of old documents because bringing those documents into consistency with the current language has taken a lot of time. However, the added time has provided insights that will make the new document better than originally expected. The revised gismu list, for example, now typically has 2 or more English glosses for each Lojban word, and the English order list will be much more useful for those looking up words. We&#039;ve had side projects going on regarding Lojbanization of names, and are even starting to assemble some of the lujvo used in Lojban text so far into lists (there have been over 2000 such lujvo actually used in Lojban text, which can be added to some 5000 proposed words that are on paper and computer disk from earlier Loglan work). I expect that the slow production process will allow me enough time to put a non-trivial sampling of these into the book. The resulting lists will be less thoroughly checked and standard than the well-analyzed gismu and cmavo lists, but the reference book is now looking more like the dictionary that people really want to see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It won&#039;t be the dictionary I WANT to produce, but it will have more to it than most first dictionaries of artificial languages, and will serve as a good start.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have been calling this book the &#039;proto-dictionary&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The proto-dictionary will also have the formal grammar in both YACC and BNF forms, a glossary of Lojban and technical/linguistic jargon that often appears in discussion of Lojban, the morphology rules, and other useful reference material. I plan to include a form of the selma&#039;o catalog started by John Cowan (described above).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A more complete dictionary will be built after this one is done, but it again will take a couple of years - I&#039;ve always known this was a big project for one person, and without funding for more than myself to work on it, it will take a lot of time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora has found a purse-sized gismu list that I prepared for her as an experiment to be very useful. therefore, we are considering putting out a tiny pocket version of the protodictionary with word lists only. If you think such a book would be useful enough for you to buy in addition to the full protodictionary, let us know - the market for this book will determine whether it is produced in this generation of Lojban materials, rather than waiting until there are more Lojbanists to buy it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grammar Description - John Cowan&#039;s papers, described above, along with the ones I have written and will write in the future, will form the third basic Lojban book. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Introduction to Lojban - The cost to us of our introductory package is quite high, and only some 10-20% of the people who ask for information send us payment. By assembling the introductory package into a small book, we can get better postal rates for mailing it, as well as reducing our printing costs. The savings is only a few hundred dollars a year, but every little bit helps, and a lower price might encourage more to pay. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Phrase Book - We started doing a phrase book for LogFest last year, and a few dozen pages of materials have been assembled. The concept is similar to the standard &#039;Berlitz&#039; phrase-books for travellers, recognizing that the phrases a Lojbanist needs are not quite the same as those that a traveller to a foreign country would want. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Reader - We are still talking about this book, though it will likely be delayed because the other books are more important and the market for a reader is still small. The amount of Lojban text that has been written or translated is now enormous. However, checking the translations are slow and inefficient; even small changes in the language require a rechecking. We are also hoping that more Lojbanists will start writing new things in the language rather than translating. Most things people wish to translate are covered by copyright, and tracking down of permissions to reproduce such translations commercially is something we haven&#039;t figured out how to do efficiently (along with the fact that we might have to pay royalties).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Schedule ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We may not be too good lately at meeting our schedules, being too dependent on both time and money that are not under our control, but having a schedule helps us keep priorities straight, and helps you know what he are doing to bring the language to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here are the current plans:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(June 92)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 92A&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL16&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;LK16&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Diagrammed Examples of Lojban Sentences&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Tense Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to PLS:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Diagrammed Examples of Lojban Sentences&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Tense Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mex Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lerfu Paper draft&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Text Structure Paper draft&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Logical Connectives Paper draft&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Revised cmavo list&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(August 92)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 92B - Annual Meeting&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL17&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;LK17&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Mini-Lesson&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mex Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (Esperanto version) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to PLS.: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lerfu Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Text Structure Paper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (Esperanto version) - updated&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A comparison of Lojban and 1989 Institute Loglan (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Glossary of Lojban/linguistic terminology&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(September 92) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Books:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Reference Materials/- Proto-Dictionary&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Pocket Dictionary &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hypercard LogFlash/Mac - (Revised and New versions)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(November 92) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;JL18&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;LK18&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Learning Materials (Book) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to PLS.:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Revised Draft Lessons 1-6&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Negation paper (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Attitudinal Paper (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Synopsis of Lojban Orthography, Phonology, and Morphology (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Dec 92)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Parser (PC and some UNIX versions)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Parser/Glosser&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Logflash 2 - rafsi (Revision 7) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Unscheduled But Planned &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Textbook&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Dictionary&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Reader&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Phrase Book &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed and Electronic:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban gismu Etymologies &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban Adventure Game &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Using the Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most heartening development of the last several months has been the spread of regular and active Lojban work to several people outside of the DC area. These people, primarily in contact with each other through the computer networks, are doing a variety of translations and other writings, games, and discussions. The activities being undertaken often rely on advanced Lojban skills. That people are able to do these activities without direction or instruction from those of us who did the language design proves that the language has now been defined well enough that it is no longer totally dependent on Nora, pc, John Cowan and myself for survival.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even more significantly, the people participating in these activities come from a variety of language backgrounds. Ivan Derzhanski, in Scotland, is native Bulgarian. Nick Nicholas, in Australia, is native Greek/English. Colin Fine, in the UK, of course uses British English, while Mark Shoulson uses American English (though he does most of his translating to Lojban from Hebrew). A new Lojbanist, Veijo Vilva is Finnish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Conversation Group - Before Athelstan&#039;s accident in February, the Lojban conversation group here in DC passed its first anniversary of regular weekly conversation sessions in Lojban. Without Athelstan, we have shifted to non-conversation activities such as translations to and from Lojban of simple texts, while teaching new Lojbanist David Young enough of the language that he can comfortably participate in conversation. As described above, we expect to merge the conversation group into a new Lojban class here in the DC area that will swell our numbers of conversant speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the Net - Lojban List has remained steady at around 60-80 members, though the last few weeks have shown a new group of people joining in. While most of the subscribers to this list are &#039;lurkers&#039; in net terminology (they read what&#039;s posted but seldom contribute), the number who contribute to discussions has grown to a couple of dozen.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The intensity of discussion varies. Earlier this year, the list was averaging a dozen messages a day, some of considerable length. Lately, things have been quiet, with only one or two messages a day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The technical level of discussions has increased. Indeed, we&#039;ve had a little problem in that new subscribers who haven&#039;t received our materials tend to be a bit lost in the details of the fairly advanced discussions, and very little is posted for beginning Lojbanists. I keep urging beginners to post questions, but few participate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Phone Game - The old party game called variously &amp;quot;the phone game&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;whisper down the line&amp;quot; has found a new incarnation in Lojban. Originally started by Jack Bennetto, this game is just completing its 3rd &#039;round&#039;. Lojbanists are each given a message, originally in English. They translate it into Lojban and pass it to the next person, who translates it back to English, then the next back to Lojban, etc. until the message has gone full circle. The requirement is to translate about two lines once a week, so the time commitment is rather small.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants in the latest 5 message round include Ivan Derzhanski, Sylvia Rutiser, Mark Shoulson, Colin Fine, and Nora LeChevalier, with Nick Nicholas coordinating things and assembling the results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of the game, Nick collects comments from everyone on the obvious and not-so-obvious errors that creep into the translations, and they are posted to Lojban List. Two sample messages from the 2nd round, with post-game commentary, appear in le lojbo se ciska below. People participating in the game learn much from trying to find ways to rephrase what they receive. Nick is hoping to increase the number of participants in the next round.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translations and other Writings - The volume of Lojban text, mostly translations, continues to grow. So does the diversity of translators and sources. Nick Nicholas is still by far the leading translator into Lojban, with about 10 new efforts of length comparable to that in JL15 since that issue was published. Some of these translations are from Greek, both ancient and modern, some are from Esperanto, and even a couple from English. Nick has also completed translating the text of the original &#039;Adventure&#039; computer game, known as &#039;Colossal Cave&#039; (badbarda kevna), and we hope to have a Lojban version of this game available by the end of the year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan Derzhanski has translated two stories from Bulgarian into Lojban. One of these will probably appear in the next issue, unless we get the final review done in time for this issue&#039;s deadline. Ivan has been complimented for his &#039;natural&#039; Lojban use that is very easy to read.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson has translated sections of Genesis from the original Hebrew, as well as some traditional Hebrew songs. Colin Fine has translated the fairy tale &amp;quot;The Princess and the Pea&amp;quot;, and several songs, including one of his own. John Cowan has translated a short tale from Hakka, a rural Chinese dialect. Veijo Vilva and And Rosta have each translated haiku poetry, and Lojbab translated a Gilbert and Sullivan song. Jamie Bechtel revised his translation of an Ursula Leguin science fiction story, which we will print if we can get copyright release. And of course the DC group has done a variety of translations, mostly of simple texts from the 19th century schoolbooks called &amp;quot;McGuffy&#039;s Readers&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael Helsem recently sent a new poem written in Lojban, after several months of inactivity while relocating to Seattle. Thus far he&#039;s the only one emphasizing original writing in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Discussions - Lojban List has had discussions on innumerable topics, and space is forcing us to leave most of these out of this issue. These discussions have been very helpful in resolving some of the issues that come up as we clean up the loose ends in the language documentation. Some of the discussions are excerpted in this issue, and more will appear in later issues, but we can hardly start to include the volume of material appearing on Lojban List.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Linguist List - John Cowan and Lojbab have also been active in &amp;quot;Linguist List&amp;quot;, a mailing list for professional linguists who are conducting research. Our activity has earned us, and Lojban, name recognition in this critical community, and we have garnered considerable respect for Lojban&#039;s potential value in linguistics research (see research news below). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Conlang - A third mailing list exists for people interested in constructed languages in general as opposed to Lojban or some other particular language. Many of the participants are people inventing their own languages, often for fun or for use in fiction. Lojbanists contribute frequently on this forum, and we have gained several new supporters as a result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research Using Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As we have gained respect in the linguistics community, a few linguists have offered ideas for how Lojban would be useful in their work. I&#039;ll highlight three key contacts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alexis Manaster-Ramer - Alexis is a noted linguist at Wayne State University in Michigan. He is active in a variety of linguistics arenas, and leads in international relations with the Russian linguistics community, computational linguistics, and historical linguistics (he has a forthcoming paper that will be the first in-depth technical review by American linguists of the &#039;Nostratic&#039; theory of language evolution, which has been much-discussed in the popular press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alexis has suggested that Lojban may be well-suited for use in semantic analysis of differing natural languages. Specifically, if you have, for example, a word in Polish, and a word in English, they might be translated into two separate words in Lojban, but then using some of Lojban&#039;s features to serve as a metalanguage for talking about the relationships between the meanings. He says that linguists often make nonsensical claims/errors because in dealing with glosses of words from other languages, they often forget that the gloss is not necessarily identical in meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(He cites as an example a guy who did his thesis demonstrating that English &amp;quot;if&amp;quot; was not a logical connection by examining how translations of &amp;quot;if&amp;quot; s sentences into Tagalog were not logical connectives because the word used in Tagalog definitely doesn&#039;t ever act like such a connective. Alexis notes that this argument is silly - the Tagalog word was not necessarily identical in meaning to the English word, even if it WAS used in translation. Ideally you want to never assume that two words in different language map to exactly the same semantic space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another example, from Polish (which is Alexis&#039; native language). &#039;Orange&#039; in its Polish incarnation is not as primary a color as it is in English. Even though the archetype orange may be similar or identical in the two languages, the word for the concept covers a narrower band in Polish, so some things English calls &#039;orange&#039; Alexis sees as a flavor of yellow and more rarely as red. Lojban has the capability, independent of the vaguely defined Lojban narju, to add words glinarju and polskrnarju for the two source language &amp;quot;oranges&amp;quot;. Having different words, a Lojban-using analyst wouldn&#039;t assume them to be identical in meaning, and would perhaps also have the metalanguage capability through adding BAI places and the like, to clearly distinguish the meanings and the transformations needed to relate the two. Each word would have an archetype and a range in both hue and saturation - the limits between orange and other colors being different in Polish than in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alexis thus sees in Lojban the basis for a general or universal semantic theory after the concept that none other than Whorf had (Whorf apparently thought that gestalt psychology could serve as the basis of an independent universal semantic theory). Lojban&#039;s cultural independence (whether neutral or not, it is relatively independent of other cultures through the need to reformulate and reanalyze virtually every concept for both syntactic and semantic place structure values when you translate into Lojban), and its extensibility allow for a lot of power in semantic analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While the goal is some kind of universal semantic analysis capability, just the ability to use Lojban to tackle small problems, like the color words, or Nootka sentence words or 57 Inuit words for snow, would be a boon to linguists doing their work. The longer term goal need not even be dealt with at first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting that an opportunity like this comes up in semantics, the area where we have done the least work in Lojban, and yet the lack of work done is not a handicap for the research Alexis has in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the technically minded, linguist David Elworthy attempted to reformulate my description in more formal terms. In some ways his version seems more clear than my presentation. David writes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are considering lexical translation between two languages lg1 and lg2. Such a translation will only rarely be an isomorphism, in the sense that the words (or whatever) in the language will have identical meanings; most of the time we have a homomorphism, i.e. in going from lg1 to lg2 we discard some of the meaning and add in some extra bits of meaning. The problem is that linguists and others who work with translations forget that they are using a homomorphism and treat it as an isomorphism: hence the &amp;quot;if&amp;quot; in English and Tagalog example. The picture of what happens at the moment is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lg1 -----------------&amp;gt; lg2&lt;br /&gt;
             h&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(using h for the homomorphism).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The proposal is to use a three stage process: lg1 to the nearest object (word, phrase) in Lojban, some object in Lojban to lg2, and something to link the two Lojban objects, i.e.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lg1 ----&amp;gt; Lojban ----&amp;gt; Lojban ---- &amp;gt; lg2&lt;br /&gt;
      h1           h2           h3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
such that composing the three homomorphisms h1, h2 and h3 gives you h.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The suggestion is that Lojban is a good tool for this because we can produce objects for the middle stages which have a very precise meaning (so we get h1 and h3 right), and furthermore that these meanings can be reduced to members of a small collection of primitive objects joined with well-defined connective. Hence we should be able to get h2. So we have reduced h to simpler terms, and so we can get a more precise understanding of the original translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I started to write this I was trying to work out why I felt skeptical about it, and I think I now find that I am less skeptical than I thought! The major difficulty is in h1 and h3. To know whether you have got these right, i.e. found or constructed the right Lojban objects, you have to make reference to something outside the languages involved, and this might just mean that you have replaced the need to do this once (in h) with a need to do it twice (h1 and h3). But perhaps this is really the aim: to reduce one hard problem to two easier ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan notes further that Lojban may be most helpful where it is important to forget about cultural concepts or about the Indo-Europeanish concept of parts of speech. He also mentions family relationship words and tenses as fruitful areas of investigation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone interested in actively keeping abreast of this research project should let us know. If you have access to the computer nets, this is helpful, since that is likely where most discussion will take place as we attempt to focus this into a more formal research proposal. We will of course keep people generally aware of how this develops in JL. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan Derzhanski - Ivan is pursuing his own research interests at the University of Edinburgh. He plans to use Lojban significantly in his research. Among other activities, Ivan has written and submitted a paper addressing the variety of modification strategies that languages use in tanru (modifier/- modificand pairings). He includes some Lojban examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alan Libert - Alan is a linguist at McGill University in Canada. In April he gave a presentation at the International Linguistics Association meeting in Washington DC, which I attended. Alan&#039;s paper was on the use of artificial languages, especially those (like Lojban) which do not attempt to copy the structures of some other language or group of languages (a priori languages) to research in language universals. He hypothesizes that those who invent languages will unconsciously incorporate true universals in their language design even when they are trying to depart from their native language constraints.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His initial efforts, dealing with the well-known analyses of word order in languages, were inconclusive. However, we noted in discussion of the paper that such &#039;obvious&#039; features of language design are too well-known and hence likely to be an intentional choice on the part of the language inventor. For example, the recently publicized &amp;quot;Klingon&amp;quot; language used in the Star Trek movies was explicitly invented to have Object before Subject order, a rare feature found only in a few Amazon-region languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News/Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is not much news in these areas that isn&#039;t already covered elsewhere. With active Lojbanists now scattered around the world (indeed, while our mailing list is heavily concentrated in the US, the people actually learning and using the language seem exceptionally spread out), news about Lojban is often &#039;international&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the publicity arena, we have had some useful international developments. The major international Esperanto monthly Monato had a short article mentioning Lojban and giving our mail and computer addresses. A couple of dozen have responded, almost all from outside the US, and we hope to encourage this development into a further spurt of international Lojban use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second development is Nora and my eventual trip to Russia as part of our adopting a child. The nature of that process is such that we will not be able to do much lead planning of the trip, but I certainly intend to take advantage of our visit to promote Lojban in that country, noted for its diverse ethnic and linguistic heritage. (I&#039;m hoping to have a Russian translation of the Lojban brochure and perhaps other materials before leaving).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a good possibility that la lojbangirz. will lose its capability to accept credit card orders/contributions, which we started primarily for the benefit of non-US supporters. We are now paying US$15/month minimum and no annual fee; this will rise in October to US$50 per year and US$25/month minimum. We will be paying more in fees most months than we gain in income from credit cards. Unless we find a new, cheaper avenue for processing credit cards, this service will have to be dropped. We will still be able to process non-US denominated cheques using Thomas Cook, for a US$3.50 fee. If you are planning a credit card contribution, though, I recommend that you do so before summer ends.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Institute (TLI) continues to survive, though this remains fairly invisible on the forums that we see. Since our last issue, two more issues of Lognet have appeared. Each contains a short piece of Loglan text, and discussions of various technical issues. Lognet seems to look like some of our early JL issues, only much smaller.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most entertaining is how users of the TLI version are discovering many of the improvements we made in creating Lojban 5 years ago, or have added since. Indeed, almost every change reported in TLI Loglan was already part of Lojban. Given the wide overlap between TLI supporters and readers of this publication and our computer net discussions, there may be a reason for this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB has been especially invisible the last several months. Having moved TLI to San Diego when he relocated there last summer, JCB has apparently spent the time since last November preparing and sailing his yacht from Florida around to his new home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TLI Legal Appeal Rejected - As reported last issue, TLI appealed the US Patent and Trademark Office ruling in our favor that &#039;Loglan&#039; was not a valid trademark for TLI&#039;s &amp;quot;dictionaries and grammars&amp;quot; because it is a generic name for a language and not an indication that the source of those products is TLI. This ruling, the result of a long dispute between us and TLI, would allow us to use &#039;Loglan&#039; freely in our promotion of our materials, especially in attempting to reach the people who have heard of Loglan through the 1960 Scientific American article, Heinlein&#039;s reference in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and other such instances that predate or are otherwise unrelated to TLI and its products. The legal battle was started in 1988 after TLI threatened legal action over our use of the term &#039;Loglan&#039; in JL in ways they did not approve.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oral arguments on the appeal were held on 7 November 1991, before three judges of the Circuit Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. Bill Herbert of Staas and Halsey argued for la lojbangirz., while Wesley Parsons argued for TLI. JCB was present in the courtroom, as were Athelstan and myself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oral arguments lasted only about a half hour; then a long wait for the decision, which was finally issued on 28 April. The decision was clearly and strongly in our favor, and makes further likelihood that our position will be refuted quite remote. Mr. Parsons has filed a request for rehearing, as is often done, but the appeals court rarely grants such requests.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Circuit Court of Appeals is normally the court of last resort for trademark and other intellectual property cases. The only higher court is the U. S. Supreme Court, and they take perhaps one such case every several years; the grounds for such a Supreme Court appeal have to typically require some particular controversy, a significant constitutional issue, or disagreement between lower courts (which cannot happen in trademark cases, since there is now only one appeals court that handles trademark issues). These grounds are going to be particularly difficult to find in the Loglan decision. A Supreme Court case is also quite expensive to file for such a low chance of success, and with this appeal decision, the courts have started requiring TLI to pay some of our costs in refuting their appeals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussing the appeal in Lognet, JCB made statements suggesting that he was confident of victory and that it was just a matter of time until this occurred. As a result of these statements, our attorney has urged that we publish the Appeals decision in full so that there is no question that TLI&#039;s case has little on which to stand. We are doing so below, omitting only legal case citations that wouldn&#039;t mean much except to lawyers (we&#039;ll supply a copy of the decision, and of the original trademark cancellation decision to those wanting these details, at reproduction cost).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One more settlement attempt rejected - While we continue to defend our right to use the term &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; in promoting the language, we have continued, whenever avenues present themselves, to pursue more productive resolutions of our disputes with TLI. Discovering on short notice that JCB was coming to Washington to attend the hearing, we initiated contact through our attorneys to set up a mediated discussion of differences leading to a resolution of those differences. When TLI seemed to show interest, we hurriedly drafted a lengthy proposal to serve as an agenda for such a meeting, indicating several options that could be pursued. However, TLI quickly rejected the proposal/agenda without comment, and indicated that they found no basis for mutual discussions. Thus, even though JCB and I were in the same courtroom in November, at his choice no meeting occurred.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Excerpt from the 2nd Round of the Phone Game&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is the first of two sample sentences from the phone game played on the computer nets. This one communicated very well. Commentary courtesy of Nick Nicholas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original phrase was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hot?! Man, it was so hot, if you cracked an egg on the sidewalk, it&#039;d fry in ten seconds flat! Honest!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Shoulson translated this as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xu pu glare paunai .i leni glare zo&#039;u lenu karpo&#039;i da&#039;i lo sovda vi lo dzuklaji cu rinka lenu ra bazi binxo lo se jukpa ba&#039;o lo snidu be li pano sa&#039;e .i ba&#039;ucu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Was it hot? (This is not a question). For the amount of heat, (something) open-breaking (suppose) into an egg (pieces) at a walk-street causes that it (the egg pieces) become a cooked-thing after 10 seconds (exactly!). (Accuracy!))&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark justified not explicitly flagging exaggeration by saying: A little strange, in that the speaker claims not to be exaggerating, but then that&#039;s the most common form of exaggeration. It hardly seems likely to expect Lojban speakers to be honest with their attitudinals and lose the power their hyperbole. Then again, we can assume that the sentence really is true, so that&#039;s okay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main blunder is with the place structure of porpi: it has x1 breaking into pieces x2, not agent x1 breaking x2 into pieces x3 (this is popygau or some variant of popri&#039;a). I like prenexes too, but I would put leni glare into an explicit BAI place (ki&#039;u...).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I was in fact looking for is the translation of &amp;quot;so hot that...&amp;quot; suggested by Lojbab in a past JL: &amp;quot;.i glare seja&#039;e lenu co&#039;eli&#039;o&amp;quot;. Are we sure that, if the breaking of the egg is hypothetical, that its effect (it&#039;s being cooked) is also hypothetical; ie. the Lojban doesn&#039;t necessarily imply &amp;quot;If you were to break the egg, it will ca&#039;a cook&amp;quot;? I suppose so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One may debate whether Mark&#039;s translation was good Lojban (personally, I think it was). In any case, it was excellent English :), as Colin&#039;s translation shows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WAS IT HOT! The heat - if you cracked an egg on the pavement it would be cooked in ten seconds, no more, really!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I don&#039;t have any comment to make: this is the first almostfully successful message relay in this game).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia came up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.u&#039;e glare .ije da&#039;i lo sovda cu selporpi di&#039;o le dagysfe seri&#039;a seljukpa snidu ja&#039;e li su&#039;e pa no&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;((Wonder!) Heat. And (suppose) an egg is broken at the locus of the road-surface causing (that: {lenu} omitted) (something) is- cooked lasting- -(some)-seconds result the number at most 10.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This has me a bit worried. The place of da&#039;i in the sentence can be argued about, but the seljukpa snidu ja&#039;e sequence doesn&#039;t make much sense to me. Well it does, but it circuitous. What&#039;s happening is: &amp;quot;it&#039;s a being-cooked lasting-n-seconds thing&amp;quot; which makes sense, sorta, but you&#039;re waiting to find out what n is, and instead of n being the second place (seljukpa snidu li su&#039;epano), it shows up as a ja&#039;e place: &amp;quot;resulting in the number 10&amp;quot;. Now this could mean &amp;quot;it&#039;s an n-second cook ending up being 10 seconds&amp;quot; (cf.: it&#039;s a ten-second wait) which is fine, but it in fact ends up as &amp;quot;it&#039;s an n-second cook resulting in the number ten.&amp;quot; In Lojban, of course, it&#039;s easier to deduce from the second phrase that the first was meant. I would still, however, regard this use of ja&#039;e as anomalous, and dangerously vague.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None the less, the meaning is still retrievable, and there hasn&#039;t been any significant distortion, as in other sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Another phone game extract will be found below.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Text of the Court of Appeals Decision ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As stated above, this is the text of the decision by the US Circuit Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in TLI&#039;s appeal of our successful petition for cancellation of TLI&#039;s registered trademark for &#039;Loglan&#039;. The text is printed verbatim, except for asterisks in brackets substituting for multitudinous legal citations that mean little to the average reader.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
92-1254&lt;br /&gt;
Cancellation No. 18,026&lt;br /&gt;
THE LOGLAN INSTITUTE, INC., Appellant,&lt;br /&gt;
v.&lt;br /&gt;
THE LOGICAL LANGUAGE GROUP, INC., Appellee.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
DECIDED: April 28, 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before PLAGER, Circuit Judge, SKELTON, Senior Circuit Judge, and LOURIE, Circuit Judge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LOURIE, Circuit Judge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Institute, Inc. (Institute), appeals the final decision of the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (Board) in Cancellation No. 18,026 (February 4, 1991). The Board granted The Logical Language Group, Inc.&#039;s (Language Group) motion for summary judgement, holding that the Institute&#039;s mark, LOGLAN, is generic and ordered the registration cancelled. We affirm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== BACKGROUND ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1955, Dr. James Brown invented a &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; which was designed to test the theory that natural languages limit human thought. It has been described by Dr. Brown as &amp;quot;symbolic logic made speakable&amp;quot; which &amp;quot;derives its word-stock impartially from the eight most widely spoken natural languages and so is culturally and politically neutral as well as suitable for cross-cultural linguistic experimentation.&amp;quot; Dr. Brown coined the word &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (derived from logical language) to designate the new language. He first used the term Loglan in a publication in 1956; several years later, in 1962, he formed the Institute to promote the development and use of Loglan. On August 17,1987, the Institute applied for registration of Loglan as a mark for &amp;quot;Dictionaries and Grammars.&amp;quot; The registration issued on April 12, 1988.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently unhappy with the Institute&#039;s progress in developing the language, a member of the Institute left and in November 1988 founded the Language Group. In February 1989, the Language Group published a newsletter regarding the progress of its logical language. In the newsletter, several references were made to Loglan, prompting the Institute to threaten the Language Group with a trademark infringement suit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On May 23, 1989, the Language Group petitioned the Board to cancel the Institute&#039;s registration of the mark Loglan, alleging that Loglan is merely a contraction of, or generic name for a logical language. The Language group also contended that the application for registration had been fraudulently made, or, if a trademark ever existed for Loglan, the mark had been abandoned. After both parties moved for summary judgment, the Board granted the Language Group&#039;s motion and ordered cancellation on the ground that Loglan is &amp;quot;a generic designation identifying a language rather than a trademark to indicate the source of goods.&amp;quot; Additionally, the Board found that the application had not been fraudulently made and that the abandonment issue was moot. The Board refused to consider the affirmative defenses raised by the Institute, stating that some were not within the Board&#039;s jurisdiction and others were not good defenses against a charge of genericness. The Institute argues here that the Board erred in holding that Loglan was a generic term and in refusing to consider the affirmative defenses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== DISCUSSION ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== A. Summary Judgment ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The requirements for granting summary judgment in a trademark cancellation proceeding are the same as in any other case, viz., that there be no genuine issue of material fact and the movant be entitled to judgment as a matter of law. [*]. We review the propriety of summary judgment de novo. [*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parties agree that the factual issues underlying genericness are undisputed. Though genericness itself has been categorized as a question of fact [*], the parties have each moved for summary judgment on that question. The Board considered the lengthy affidavits and numerous exhibits each party submitted in support of its motion, and concluded that Loglan was generic. Our review requires us to determine whether, based on the evidence of record, the Board was correct in that conclusion. After examining the record, we do not believe the Board erred in concluding that the Language Group was entitled to judgment as a matter of law.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== B. Genericness ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lanham Act provides for the cancellation of a mark which is or has become the generic name for goods or services [*]. While a trademark registration has a presumption of validity, in a cancellation proceeding that presumption may be rebutted by evidence from the party seeking cancellation [*]. Before the Board, the Language Group presented numerous pieces of evidence to show that Loglan is used generically to designate a logical language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parties do not dispute that if Loglan is used generically to designate a language, the term cannot properly be registered as a trademark for &amp;quot;dictionaries and grammars&amp;quot; any more than English can be registered for a dictionary. That Loglan is not as well known as English is immaterial. Because a language is not &amp;quot;goods&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;services&amp;quot; under the Act [*], a name originated for a new language is inherently not registrable for the language. By the same token, a generic name of a language alone cannot function as a trademark to indicate origin of a dictionary describing that language. Thus, our determination hinges on whether the Board was correct in concluding that the term Loglan is, &amp;quot;a generic designation identifying a language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute argues that the relevant public does not perceive Loglan as generic, but rather sees it as indicating a single source of the language. The public&#039;s perception is the primary consideration in a determination of genericness [*].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute concedes that the relevant public is &amp;quot;the small group of persons who have written about the language or have been involved in the invented language research effort as well as those to whom the Loglan language has been or is being marketed.&amp;quot; The Institute&#039;s definition of &amp;quot;relevant public&amp;quot; is consistent with this court&#039;s reading of the term as encompassing both &amp;quot;actual [and] potential purchasers of ... goods or services.&amp;quot; [*]. Evidence of what the relevant public understands the term to mean may come from direct consumer testimony, surveys, dictionary listings, newspapers, and other publication [*]. Although in many situation a survey is desirable to establish the public&#039;s perception, given the limited size of the relevant group here, the numerous examples submitted by the parties are sufficient to determine how the relevant group perceives the term Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The evidence indicates the Dr. Brown himself has used the term Loglan only in a generic sense. For example, in 1984, Brown stated to the Institute&#039;s membership:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m insisting on moving in the right direction for Loglan whether this means losing control of the institute I founded or not... Your can always write me if you still want to talk to me about Loglan, or to help me in putting it to use. As a private person I shall always be available to my old Loglandian friends... Loglan may not suffer very much... Health permitting I&#039;ll still write those couple of books. Perhaps with my example others will too.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His encouragement for others to write Loglan books or books in Loglan negates the claim now asserted of proprietary rights in Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the Institute published a book, entitled &amp;quot;Loglan (1): A Logical Language.&amp;quot; Included in the 1989 version is the statement &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In my English idiolect, as in Loglan and French, words like &amp;quot;loglanist&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;loglandic&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;loglandical&amp;quot; are general terms like &amp;quot;cat&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; (i.e., common nouns or adjectives) and therefore uncapitalized, whereas words like &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Loglandia&amp;quot; are singular terms (words with single designata, like &amp;quot;John&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Greenland&amp;quot;) and therefore capitalized. Both Loglan and French are more fastidious about such logical matters than Standard English.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As he stated, Loglan is a name for a language like French or English. Based on all this evidence, the Board had adequate basis to conclude that both Brown and the Institute adopted the term Loglan as the generic name of a language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute argues that no one else has used the term Loglan in a generic fashion and that by capitalizing Loglan in its newsletter, the Language Group itself treats the term in a non-generic manner. We disagree. Capitalization is the correct form for the name of a language, e.g., English, French, or German [*]; this it is compatible with generic use. Moreover, the Language Group&#039;s own logical language, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;, is referred to as a type of Loglan. The Language Group refers to &amp;quot;[Brown&#039;s] version of &#039;Loglan&#039;&amp;quot; and states that &amp;quot;Lojban is indeed a Loglan.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to generic use of the term Loglan by the Institute and the Language Group, others have so used the term. Numerous letters have been written to the Language Group inquiring about Loglan, requesting to be maintained on its Loglan mailing lists, and even inquiring about the status of the Loglan language being developed by the Language Group. The fact that the &amp;quot;consuming public&amp;quot; would write to someone other than the Institute regarding the Loglan language indicates that third parties understand Loglan to be a generic term; this understanding did not arise only from actions of the Language Group. Rather, the Language Group and the public merely followed the generic usage of the Institute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== C. Equitable Defenses ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As part of its answer, the Institute alleged various affirmative defenses, including the equitable defenses of unclean hands, estoppel, fraud, acquiescence, and waiver. The Board found that the unclean hands, fraud and estoppel defenses were based on allegation of trade secret theft and infringement and therefore were not within the jurisdiction of the Board. Further, the Board stated that the equitable defense of acquiescence was not valid against the claim that the mark was generic. We affirm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Application of these defenses must be considered in light of the clear purposes of the Trademark Act that a registered mark may be cancelled at any time on the ground that it is generic [*], and also in light of the Board&#039;s discretionary power to apply the defenses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To support the defenses of unclean hands, estoppel, and fraud, the Institute pleaded that the Language Group &amp;quot;wrongfully acquired the trade secrets of the [Institute]..., and has converted and used such trade secrets to [Language Group]&#039;s benefit... [and that the Language Group] wrongfully used the mark &#039;Loglan&#039; in interstate commerce..., thereby infringing on [the Institute&#039;s] trademark.&amp;quot; As pleaded, these defenses are essentially claims of trademark infringement and unfair competition premised on the Institute&#039;s assertion of trademark rights in Loglan. The Institute also alleges that after it demanded that the Language Group stop using its &amp;quot;mark,&amp;quot; the latter acquiesced and ceased using Loglan to designate its logical language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lanham Act specifically provides that &amp;quot;[i]n all inter partes proceedings equitable principles of laches, estoppel, and acquiescence, where applicable may be considered and applied&amp;quot; [*]. While the Board must consider such defenses, we determine that it properly exercised its discretion in not allowing the defenses to prevail here. As the Board stated, these defenses cannot override the controlling fact that Loglan is the generic name for a language and that it cannot therefore be a trademark for dictionaries. The Board did not err in declining to apply the defenses, as the public interest in a cancellation proceeding to rid the register of a generic mark transcends them. The Board may have erred in stating that it lacked jurisdiction over the defenses, but that error was harmless under the circumstances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We, of course, do not rule on whether the Institute may have an action against the Language Group on any matters of unfair competition. The record here simply show that the term Loglan has never been a trademark, but rather entered the public domain as a generic name from the time of its inception.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== CONCLUSION ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decision of the Board is therefore&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
AFFIRMED &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (cont.) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Back when I was writing the draft textbook lessons, Nora was busily inventing examples for me. I never finished writing draft Lesson 7, but Nora had plenty of examples. Here are those examples, without the textual explanation that was never finished. As with most of Nora&#039;s examples, they stand quite well on their own, anyway. The primary topics are abstraction, logical connection, and the mathematical selbri words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Examples of bridi logical connection ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi dansu gi&#039;e sanga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I dance and sing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lenu mi dansu gi&#039;e sanga cu nibli lenu mi dansu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(The event that I dance and sing) logically necessitates (the event that I dance).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;My dancing and singing necessarily implies my dancing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lenu mi dansu gi&#039;e sanga cu nibli lenu mi sanga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(The event that I dance and sing) logically necessitates (the event that I sing).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;My dancing and singing necessarily implies my singing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do limna gi&#039;a bajra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You swim or run.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la&#039;edi&#039;u goi ko&#039;a cu na nibli lenu do limna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The event of the last sentence (ko&#039;a) doesn&#039;t logically necessitate (the event of you swimming).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This doesn&#039;t necessarily imply that you swim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a cu na nibli lenu do bajra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It doesn&#039;t logically necessitate (the event of you running).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It also doesn&#039;t necessarily imply that you run.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi djica lenu sipna gi&#039;a citka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I desire (the event of sleeping or eating).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I want to sleep or eat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i do djica lenu sipna ku gi&#039;a citka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I desire the event of sleeping, or eat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I either want to sleep, or I eat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti berti ta gi&#039;o se snanu ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is north of that if-and-only- if be-southed by that.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is north of that if-and-only- if that is south of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ti ta berti gi&#039;o se snanu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This, of that, is north if-and- only-if be-southed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro da jetnu gi&#039;o na jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;All-somethings are true if-and- only-if not false&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro da jetnu gi&#039;onai jitfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;All-somethings are true exclusive- or false.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;All-somethings are true or false (but not both).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;All-somethings are true if-and- only-if not false.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko gasnu gi&#039;o se minde&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Imperative!) You! do if-and-only- if as-commanded.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Imperative!) You! Do equivalently-to as-commanded.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Do as you are told, and ONLY as you are told!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le bloti cu marce gi&#039;u spofu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The boat is a vehicle, whether-or- not broken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ka prane cu se troci gi&#039;u se kakne&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The quality of perfection is attempted, whether-or-not within-the-ability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti vinji nagi&#039;a vofli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is-an-airplane Not! or flies.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is-an-airplane only-if (it) flies.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If this is an airplane, then it flies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama le lalxu nagi&#039;a limna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I go-to the lake Not!, or swim/am- a-swimmer.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I go to the lake only if a swimmer.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If I go to the lake, then I&#039;m a swimmer&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti blaci nagi&#039;a ralci .i ti ralci gi&#039;anai blaci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is glass Not!, or delicate. And this is delicate or not: glass.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is glass only-if delicate. And this is delicate if glass.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do kakne lenu cilre ku gi&#039;anai troci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are able at (the event-of- learning) or not: trying.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are able to learn if (you) try. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Examples of sumti Logical Connection ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la rik. .e la .alis. cu klama le cilre nu penmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Rick and Alice go-to the learner- (event-of-meeting).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Rick and Alice go to class.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi ba cuxna le xunre .a le xekri .i mi ba na cuxna le xunre .e le xekri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I will choose the red or the black. And I will not choose the red and the black.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.iseni&#039;ibo mi ba cuxna le xunre .onai le xekri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Therefore-logically I will choose the red exclusive-or the black.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Therefore I will choose the red or the black, but not both.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi djica loi ladru .anai loi ckafi .i mi na nelci loi na ladru ckafi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I want Milk, or not: Coffee. And I not: fond-of not: Milky- coffee.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I want milk, if coffee. I&#039;m not fond of things that aren&#039;t milked-coffee.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do ba viska la rik. .o la .alis. ni&#039;i lenu la rik. ba kansa la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You will see Rick if-and-only-if Alice, logically-because (the event of Rick will be-with Alice.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You will see Rick when Alice, because Rick will be with Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la djos. na.a la rut. ba zvati mu&#039;i lenu ri nelci ra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Joe Not! or Ruth) will be present-at, motivated by (the event of the latter is fond of the former).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Joe, only-if Ruth, will be present, because she is fond of him.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If Joe (will be present) then Ruth will be present, because she is fond of him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lenu ti jubme gi&#039;e bunre cu nibli lenu ti jubme .e lenu ti bunre&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(The event of this is-a-table and is-brown) logically necessitates (the event that this is-a-table) and (the event that this is- brown).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;That this is a table and brown logically necessitates that this is a table AND that this is brown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More examples below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== la lojbangirz.&#039;s First Research Proposal ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is the text of our first research proposal, a preliminary project description made to the US defense agency DARPA last August. DARPA is the major funding organization for natural language processing within the US government. Our proposal was rejected as being unlikely to win funding at this time; we obtained no other information. The competition drew dozens of proposals, and ours was probably weeded out as being particularly high risk or likely to need too much of the very limited money available for &#039;seed projects&#039;. The project description is very brief, in accordance with the constraints of the Request for Proposal, but should give some idea of how we envision approach- ing the use of Lojban in natural language processing. We welcome, and indeed strongly encourage, comments on how we can improve this proposal, and also commit to support as best we can others that wish to submit research proposals to DARPA and other funding sources.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Natural Language Processing&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSAL ABSTRACT 19 July 1991&lt;br /&gt;
Submitted to: DARPA/SISTO,&lt;br /&gt;
Arlington VA 22203-1714 In&lt;br /&gt;
Response To: BAA 91-15, by:&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031- 1303&lt;br /&gt;
Technical/Administrative Point of Contact: Robert LeChevalier, 703-385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
19 July 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. Charles L. Wayne, DARPA/SISTO&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Virginia Square Plaza&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;3701 N. Fairfax Drive&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Arlington VA 22203-1714&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: The Logical Language Group, Inc., Response to BAA 91-15 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Mr. Wayne:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc. (LLG) is pleased to respond to BAA 91-15 for innovative research in linguistics and natural language processing (NLP). We propose research and development towards a prototype NLP system based on Lojban, a human-speakable, syntactically unambiguous predicate language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s design has numerous possibilities for enormous impact on the processing of natural languages. LLG proposes a research approach, using Lojban as both tool and target language, that maximizes the applicability of our results to potential DOD applications, and advances the state of the art by making Lojban available to other NLP efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Research into NLP applications of Lojban suits DARPA&#039;s mission, and is the type of research sought under this BAA. The BAA is well-timed for LLG; we are now ready to undertake such research, having just completed the prototype Lojban parser after years of research. Meanwhile, our novel approach makes obtaining traditional funding for this next step in Lojban NLP research difficult. Applying Lojban to NLP is beyond the scope of our current all-volunteer effort, though such application has been a long-term research goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG is proud of its efforts to date. What we have accomplished without funding speaks for itself, and we&#039;ve demonstrated an ability to deliver a product on a very tight budget. Several key personnel, including myself, are experienced in military systems development and familiar with the standards and practices expected. LLG has access to personnel with NLP experience and with demonstrated skill at producing complete, working systems within schedule and budget constraints.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be managing the overall project and will technically lead several tasks, closely monitoring the others. I am confident that the results of this promising effort will contribute substantially to the state of the art in natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Very truly yours,&lt;br /&gt;
Robert LeChevalier, President&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 1 - Innovative Claims ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban, an artificial human-speakable (and hence &#039;natural&#039;) language with an unambiguous syntax based on predicate logic, has several potential applications in natural language processing (NLP). No prior attempt has been made to design such a language and apply it to NLP. The Logical Language Group, Inc. (LLG) has unique expertise in Lojban&#039;s design and applications; its corps of volunteers will multiply efforts by funded researchers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG plans to research and implement an NLP system that processes Lojban, but which also uses Lojban as a tool for NLP. Using a highly regular yet &#039;natural&#039; language reduces the difficulty of NLP processing, resulting in a faster, more accurate NLP system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specific applications for a Lojban NLP system include: using Lojban as an interface control medium for NLP engineers to more easily and accurately input knowledge and dictionary information into an NLP system; using Lojban as a systems requirements and design language and using NLP deduction to detect and query system design flaws; and partially translating mass text from English or other languages into an unambiguous Lojban interlingua, using NLP to intelligently select text and speech for detailed human analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using Lojban in such systems offers the unique potential for the system to understandably explain decisions, interacting with analysts in &#039;natural&#039; language (not requiring intermediary engineers or programmers) to heuristically evolve better criteria. Lojban allows natural expression in such interactions while enforcing non-ambiguity in the input, simplifying NLP implementation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While being used to develop such practical NLP systems, Lojban can be viewed as a simplified linguistic &#039;model&#039; of a natural language, providing insights that will enhance development of other-language NLP systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG&#039;s proposes proving our concept in a relatively small effort that provides further innovative benefits that can be applied to other NLP efforts:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban&#039;s analytical semantics allows LLG to research semantic regularities in word structures of a language, such as the compound morphemes of Chinese (similar to Lojban&#039;s compounds), seeking patterns that will allow rapid expansion of the data base. LLG will investigate a variety of texts, and both English and non-English words and word-forms, in building its data base.&lt;br /&gt;
# Because of Lojban&#039;s unambiguous syntax, a Lojban parser is much simpler and faster than parsers for other human languages. LLG will produce a fast, portable parser for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban&#039;s simple, unambiguous isomorphism between spoken and written forms make Lojban speech recognition at least an order of magnitude easier than for other human languages, allowing faster, higher accuracy real time processing. LLG will implement a module for its parser that converts phoneme and stress data, derivable from a digital signal processor, into parsed text.&lt;br /&gt;
# LLG will prove its NLP concept in a restricted, much-researched application: designing and implementing a NLP text-to-data-base module to serve as a front-end for the dictionary data base; in this case, however, the interface module will use the data base it interfaces with. The module will be expandable, by adding a knowledge engine and interactive heuristics, into the complete control interface for NLP engineers or text analysts described above.&lt;br /&gt;
# A Lojban-interlingua machine translator modelled after the Netherlands DLT effort would offer advantages over that system due to Lojban&#039;s unambiguous syntax and special structures for metalinguistics and discursive comments, tense and modality, and speaker attitude and emotion. LLG will build a Lojban-to-English translator based on its parser, which will ease verification of inputs via the data base interface just mentioned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 2 - Deliverables ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG will produce the following formal deliverables, subject to funding of the corresponding tasks. Implementations of more advanced applications described in Section 1 are options partially dependent on initial results. Formal delivery of software produced during the research effort is also an option.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 1 - Lojban Dictionary Data Base&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A Lojban dictionary data base will contain all root concepts and selected supplementary data sets supporting specific NLP applications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) A technical report will describe the dictionary data base design, and the nature of the concepts included. LLG will report on patterns found in the analysis that provide insight into the process of NLP, or that suggest methods of accelerating or automating the building of dictionaries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 2 - Lojban Parser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A technical report will document the design of the Lojban parser, and the formal grammar of Lojban as implemented therein.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 3 - Lojban Speech-Recognition Stub&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A technical report will document the design of a Lojban speech recognition stub for the Lojban parser, and the Lojban morphology algorithm. LLG will report on analysis of identified issues that affect the practical implementation of speech recognition of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 4 - Parsed-Text-to-Data-Base NLP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A technical report will document the design of the data base interface module. LLG will discuss problems encountered, and conclusions regarding the practicality of Lojban as an input language for NLP control interfaces. LLG will identify other NLP systems found to have commonalties allowing a Lojban control interface processor to be integrated with those systems, thus reducing the effort of incorporating Lojban into practical applications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 5 - Lojban-to-English Translator&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A technical report will document the design of the Lojban-to-English translator. LLG will describe conventions used, and identify prospects for producing refined English translations as an enhancement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 6 - Final Technical Report&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) A technical report will summarize the research completed as an integrated effort. LLG will report conclusions regarding the practicality of Lojban&#039;s use in NLP of other languages as well as the capability for NLP of Lojban text, and suggest options for further research.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 7 - Cost and Management Reports&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) Formal progress reports will be submitted every 2 months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) Formal cost reports will be submitted every 2 months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 3 - Schedule and Milestones ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Deliverables are marked with an asterisk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 1 - Start - 0 Months after start of contract (MAC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Preliminary data base design - 1 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* 1337 Lojban root predicates in data base - 4 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* 4000 commonly used predicates in data base - 14 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* 1000 new predicates from American newspaper text - 16 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* 1000 new predicates from foreign English-language newspaper text - 18 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* 1000 new predicates from selected Chinese or other-language text - 22 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Task 1 technical report: Preliminary - 15 MAC, Final - 23 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Data base delivery - 24 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 2 - Start - 0 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Enhancement of existing parser for error reporting - 2 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Enhancement of speed of parser - 4 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Enhanced output reporting for parser - 6 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Investigation of error-detection/correction techniques for parser - 8 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Parser user&#039;s manual and high-level design document - 9 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Task 2 technical report - 10 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 3 - Start - 9 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban morphology algorithm - 10 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Implementation of speech recognition front-end stub - 12 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Front-end stub high-level design document - 13 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Task 3 technical report - 14 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 4 - Start - 4 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Implementation of data base interface NLP processor - 16 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Data base interface high-level design document - 17 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Task 4 technical report - 18 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 5 - Start - 12 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Lojban-to-English translator - 22 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* Translator users manual and high-level design document - 23 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Task 5 technical report - 24 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 6&lt;br /&gt;
* *Final technical report - 24 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Task 7&lt;br /&gt;
* Weekly or bi-weekly informal reports will be prepared, as desired by the contracting organization.&lt;br /&gt;
* *Progress reports - 2 MAC, 4 MAC, 6 MAC, 8 MAC, 10 MAC, 12 MAC, 14 MAC, 16 MAC, 18 MAC, 20 MAC, 22 MAC, 24 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
* *Cost reports - 2 MAC, 4 MAC, 6 MAC, 8 MAC, 10 MAC, 12 MAC, 14 MAC, 16 MAC, 18 MAC, 20 MAC, 22 MAC, 24 MAC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG also plans to publish articles regarding its work in technical journals to enhance Lojban&#039;s credibility as a language, a research tool, and a tool for NLP, and to validate LLG&#039;s NLP approach with other researchers. Articles warranted by project accomplishments will be incorporated in the schedule so as not to interfere with project milestones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 4 - Proprietary Claims ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No proprietary claims are expected to interfere in the use of results of this research. However, specific known claims that might affect such applications indirectly are identified herein.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A founding principle of The Logical Language Group, Inc. is that all Lojban language design information that it produces is placed directly in the public domain. This principle has motivated our volunteer force and is vital to our integrity as an organization. For this effort, language design information includes the dictionary data, as opposed to the actual dictionary data base produced in Task 1, the Lojban morphology algorithm produced for Task 3, and any modified version of the Lojban formal grammar produced in support of any task. This claim should not affect the ability to use the results of this research, and indeed guarantees that potential use of Lojban will not be impeded by any proprietary claims on language design information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Archives, working documents, and software produced by The Logical Language Group, Inc., or its volunteers, and publications of The Logical Language Group, Inc., not released into the public domain, and not produced directly on time charged to the Government, and including all such documents and software started prior to the start of funded tasking, are the property of The Logical Language Group, Inc., or the individual or collective authors. Since this claim does not cover language design information, no effect on use of the results of this research is anticipated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rights in certain prolegomena of the current Lojban language are generally held as copyrights on published and unpublished material. Such materials, sometimes associated with the names &#039;Loglan&#039;, and/or &#039;The Loglan Project&#039;, are owned by Dr. James Cooke Brown, by The Loglan Institute, Inc., by The Logical Language Group, Inc., by Linker Systems, Inc., or possibly by other parties unnamed or unknown. Lojban is a version of the Loglan language invented as part of the Loglan Project by Dr. Brown and others, including all key personnel on this project. None of these materials should be necessary for use of the results of this research, but LLG acknowledges the owners&#039; rights.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc. intends itself to use the results of this research, reserving the right to produce, distribute, and/or sell to the public, derivative works based on any of the tasks performed as part of this project. These derivative works will incorporate LLG&#039;s specialized experience with Lojban. Rights to those works will be owned by LLG and/or the authors of those works. This claim should not affect the ability of others to use the results of this research.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 5 - Technical Rationale ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two points regarding LLG&#039;s approach to NLP must be emphasized: Uniqueness - Among artificial languages, Loglan is unique in being designed principally as a tool of research in linguistics. The Lojban reimplementation has incorporated recent gains in comparative linguistics, and NLP research. Professionalism - The Lojban effort led by LLG, though staffed by volunteers, differs from other artificial language efforts in its professional approach, and in having linguists, computer scientists, and systems engineers as leaders.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The approach described in Section 1 takes advantage of our resources, builds on recent accomplishments in Lojban development, and moves directly to show Lojban&#039;s relevance and viability for NLP. The following addresses the five implementation tasks identified in that section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Dictionary Data Base Development and Related Research - The first step in the research effort is development of a Lojban dictionary data base. A language dictionary is vital to study and use of that language by non-native speakers - and Lojban obviously lacks native speakers. Thus, for this and other Lojban-related efforts, LLG needs to develop a high quality dictionary. Our approach develops this dictionary in the form of a data base suitable to NLP activities, later adding modules to interface with this system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thousands of words have been generated during the Loglan project. This data must be filtered and often modified for use; definitions must be specific and conform to Lojban&#039;s predicate structure, and distinctions relevant to NLP must be codified. Unlike preparing a data base for a natural language, such work is language prescription and not description; it drives usage instead of following it as the rules of a computer language drive that language&#039;s use. Consistent filtering by experts in the language will lead to an extensive, semantically regular vocabulary, incorporated in the NLP data base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As part of this review process, LLG expects to discover semantic patterns in both Lojban words and the source-language words that represent the Lojban concepts. In addition, while building the dictionary data base, LLG will analyze texts particularly relevant to DARPA&#039;s mission. LLG will extract concepts from those texts, expressing them as new Lojban words, while identifying additional semantic patterns. Texts will include scientific and technical texts, American and foreign English-language newspaper text, and vocabulary from foreign language dictionaries or text. LLG plans to emphasize Chinese vocabulary, from which we expect to find particularly interesting semantic patterns. LLG will also use volunteer linguists to study additional texts in Russian, Spanish, German, French, and/or Arabic. LLG seeks limited funding to support particularly promising studies by such linguists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Lojban Parser Enhancement - After fifteen years of volunteer efforts at formalizing Loglan/- Lojban grammar, LLG recently completed a parser for the complete Lojban grammar, based on a YACC LALR(1) formal grammar specification. This formal grammar is the first complete specification of the grammar of any human-speakable language. Extensive testing has found no limits to Lojban&#039;s expressive ability over the total range of human linguistic activity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The completed parser is a prototype. LLG must refine it, checking Lojban text against the formal grammar, performing basic error detection, correction, and reporting, and passing completely analyzed text structures to application software. The parser must be optimized for speed. Previous experience suggests that current processing times (1 minute for a 4K-byte text with a 386/25MHz) can be easily reduced by a factor of 4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Lojban Speech Recognition Parser Module - Lojban is audiovisually isomorphic, allowing phonemes and stress from a speech stream to resolve into a unique string of words. This design was specifically intended to ease speech recognition (SR) processing. Application of this design to SR requires specialized equipment, and is not part of the initial effort. However, implementing a front-end to the parser that turns phoneme and stress data into unambiguous parsed text will both verify Lojban&#039;s design and justify later efforts to implement a Lojban SR system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Lojban Data Base Interface/- NLP Prototype - Processing Lojban text through NLP is a useful research end in itself; LLG has determined that certain applications described in Section 1 offer pragmatic benefits. Meanwhile, the Lojban NLP system, by avoiding the ambiguities of naturally-evolved human languages, will offer insights that aid in bypassing the difficulties of processing those ambiguities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG will capitalize on Lojban&#039;s unambiguous predicate grammar and its similarities to PROLOG, to establish Lojban as a control language usable in NLP systems for efficient entry and analysis of data. This activity is a miniature of the NLP problem as a whole, and a highly regular one. Users are aware of system limitations and skilled at expressing concepts in restricted computer languages, and are thus likely to avoid usages that make NLP difficult.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LLG expects to show that Lojban is itself suitable for internal processing of NLP data, reducing the front-end processing of Lojban inputs to a minimum. LLG will study NLP systems based on predicate computer languages to determine if this approach is viable. LLG will incorporate results of this study in its NLP effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Developing an NLP interface module supporting the Lojban dictionary data base ties the entire research effort together, simultaneously:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* implementing and demonstrating NLP of that restricted subset of Lojban that is useful to such dictionary input;&lt;br /&gt;
* demonstrating an application where Lojban is useful as an input language for use by NLP processors;&lt;br /&gt;
* enabling more rapid input and analysis of dictionary data, including automated techniques identified by LLG based on its analyses. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aspects of Lojban minimize the use of idiom and other difficult expressions in the language, and help clarify queries to the user when difficult expression occurs. Lojban&#039;s distinct metalinguistic and discursive forms, analytical tense and modality, and expressions of speaker attitudes toward the discourse, all help make Lojban a clear, concise means of expressing data for NLP use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The data base interface module, while modeled on similar prior work, is the most ambitious task in the research program. LLG plans to work for maximum functionality of this processor, but to monitor the scope of the effort, deferring aspects for later efforts rather than risk not completing other portions of the research effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Lojban-to-English Translation Module - A Lojban-to-rough-English translator is less risky to develop. A translator developed for an earlier version of Loglan produced understandable results, but was not based on a full-language parser. The translation module will be well-integrated into the total research effort, being used to check data base interface module processing and to verify Lojban text used to input dictionary data. It will use the dictionary data base itself, easing verification of that data, and provide a window into the system for those not skilled in Lojban. LLG will investigate techniques to improve translation quality, and research whether this translator could serve as the basis of a machine translation system similar to the Netherlands DLT project based on Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 6 - Previous Accomplishments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group was founded in 1987 to develop what it calls &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot;. LLG incorporated in November, 1989, and was approved by the IRS in 1990 as a non-profit educational/scientific organization tax-exempt under I. R. C. 501(c)(3). Prior to that time, other versions of the language called &#039;Loglan&#039; were produced in an evolutionary effort led by Dr. James Cooke Brown. Brown first conceived of Loglan and started work on the language as early as 1955. The original purpose of Loglan was as a test vehicle for linguistics research, especially into the concept known as the &#039;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Early work in the language was devoted to word-making and developing the morphology and predicate structure of the language. The best-known prolegomenon of the language, written by Brown, was published in the June, 1960 Scientific American. From 1962-64, research was funded under an NIMH linguistics grant to produce a Loglan dictionary and teaching materials. Brown published early editions of these materials from 1965-69. Almost all work on Loglan and Lojban since 1964 has been performed by volunteers; progress has been correspondingly slow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Institute (TLI) incorporated as a non-profit organization in 1974; it published a printed dictionary and language description in 1975.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the early work on the language was done without computers, although Brown developed the first dictionaries using punched-card sorting techniques. Brown &#039;verified&#039; his language grammar as &#039;unambiguous&#039; using manual techniques developed by linguists. In the 1970s, computer science caught up with Loglan, and people started to see its potential for use in NLP. Funding for NLP research couldn&#039;t be arranged, but the prospect has inspired volunteers from the computer sciences since then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1976-77, Sheldon Linker first proposed using the Bell Labs program &#039;YACC&#039; to develop an LALR(1) formal grammar of the language, thus formally verified to be unambiguous. Work by Linker and later by others proceeded slowly, as much of the language grammar was reinvented from 1976- 81. Finally, a complete trial corpus of sentences was accurately parsed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1981, Nora Tansky LeChevalier developed a Loglan random sentence generator and a Loglan-to-English translator for a subset of the Loglan grammar. The translator used the full 4000-word dictionary. Despite primitive equipment, the translator produced understandable English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From 1981 through 1984, the Loglan grammar and vocabulary continued to evolve. After a political dispute within TLI, though, most volunteers became inactive; little progress occurred from 1984-86. Bob LeChevalier then set about revitalizing the community. This proved to require setting up a community of volunteers separate from TLI; this community became LLG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In creating Lojban, LLG analyzed and rebuilt the entire vocabulary of Loglan, and redeveloped the formal YACC grammar. These efforts went much faster than original efforts due to intense volunteer work, better management of volunteers, and better knowledge of the language. LLG baselined the Lojban root vocabulary in 1988, and the YACC grammar in August 1990, and just re-baselined the grammar in June 1991, while documenting other aspects of the language, and training the first speakers of Lojban. The community interested in Lojban now exceeds 800, and includes many AI and NLP researchers, several dozen supporters outside the U.S., and dozens of active language students. LLG supports a quarterly journal, a newsletter, an Internet-based mailing list, local study groups, an annual gathering, and weekly conversation sessions at its primary office.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 7 - Key Personnel ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All technical personnel on this project will work under consulting agreements with LLG, either directly or as employees of Linker Systems, Inc. (LSI). LLG is capable of staffing several additional positions with highly qualified programmers, linguists, and engineers, many of whom have experience in AI and NLP applications. The key people listed below are the core team that will lead efforts based on their knowledge and understanding of both Lojban and our research approach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert LeChevalier, President and Director, LLG - 60% time during year 1 and 50% during year 2. He will work on project management (Task 7), expertise in Lojban, dictionary data base work for Task 1, documentation and technical reports for all tasks (Task 6), and task leadership for Task 1, 6, and 7. Mr. LeChevalier also will manage a large corps of volunteers who will contribute to the dictionary data base work at no cost to the Government. Mr. LeChevalier&#039;s unfunded time will be as a volunteer worker for LLG doing work not covered under funded tasks. This work includes editing and publishing the journal and newsletter and writing a Lojban textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan, Director, LLG - 100% over the life of the project, working primarily on the dictionary data base (Task 1), and providing expertise in Lojban for volunteer workers. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeffrey Taylor, Voting Member, LLG - 100% over the life of the project, subject to funding of Tasks 2, 3, 4, and 5. Less than 25% participation in the 2nd year if Tasks 4 and 5 are not funded. Mr. Taylor will lead the effort for Tasks 2 and 3 and 5. Either he or Sheldon Linker of LSI will lead Task 4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sheldon Linker, Vice President, LSI - Up to 100% during Tasks 4 and 5. Mr. Linker will share leadership of Task 4, and consult in overall system design and data base design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Parks-Clifford, Vice President and Director, LLG - intermittent up to 30% working on all tasks over the life of the project, primarily as a linguistics and NLP consultant and expert on Lojban, but also leading production of technical papers. Dr. Parks-Clifford is an Associate Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri, St. Louis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Section 8 - Qualifications of Key Personnel ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert LeChevalier, President and Director, LLG - Mr. LeChevalier has worked on the Loglan project since 1980, and very actively since early 1986. He led the rebirth of Loglan as Lojban in 1987, and co-founded LLG. He has led all tasks associated with the redevelopment of the language, and is the most skilled speaker and writer of Lojban. He has been working full-time on Lojban since May 1988.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. LeChevalier was a programmer from 1974-81, then a systems engineer and systems requirements analyst from 1981 to the present. Mr. LeChevalier worked for Syscon Corp. from 1975-84, and SDC/Unisys Corp. from 1984-88. He worked on Navy systems development and design, and finally as SETA engineer leading tasks supporting the Air Force on the GLCM program until the program ended. He is expert in systems documentation, complex systems requirements analysis, operator-machine interface, configuration management, and quality assurance. He has a BS in Astrophysics, and is knowledgeable in comparative linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. LeChevalier also will work on unfunded Lojban activities, and may seek additional grants or contracts. No proposals are pending or specifically planned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan, Director, LLG - Athelstan has worked on Lojban since 1988, specializing in lexicon development, teaching, and translation. He is knowledgeable in comparative linguistics, and is a translator of Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, and Old Norse. He is working on degrees in Mathematics and Linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeffrey Taylor, Voting Member, LLG - Mr. Taylor has worked on Loglan since 1982, and is a co-founder of LLG. His Masters thesis included developing an SLR1 parser for Loglan. He served on the Loglan &#039;Word-Makers Council&#039; in 1986-87, becoming skilled in the lexicon. In 1988-89 he helped redevelop the Lojban formal grammar and wrote a preliminary parser as a test vehicle for that grammar. In 1989, he wrote a preliminary dictionary of the Lojban structure word lexicon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. Taylor has 17 years experience in programming, specializing in compiler and parser development and later in task and project management, and including extensive work in developing military systems. He has an BSEE and an MS in Electrical and Computer Engineering from University of California, Davis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sheldon Linker, Vice President, LSI - Mr. Linker has worked on Loglan since 1975. He led initial efforts to develop a YACC grammar for Loglan from 1975-80, and has been less active in Loglan and Lojban since then. He has 20 years experience as a programmer and software developer, including NLP experience. If his time is not fully funded, Mr. Linker will be employed by LSI on efforts unrelated to this effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Parks-Clifford, Vice President and Director, LLG - Dr. Parks-Clifford has worked on Loglan since 1975. He edited the Loglan journal &#039;The Loglanist&#039; from 1975-84, and was President of the Loglan Institute, Inc., from 1982-84. He is generally acknowledged as second only to founder J. C. Brown in expertise on earlier versions of Loglan, with several man-years total volunteer effort. He was co-founder of LLG, and consultant on all aspects of the language redesign. His degrees include BA Philosophy, MA Linguistics from UCLA, with field work in India, and a PhD Philosophy from UCLA. He worked directly in NLP with Rand Corp. in the 1960s, and now works in tense logic and logic education. Dr. Parks-Clifford is an Associate Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri, St. Louis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (cont.) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In keeping with the above proposal, here is a demonstration of Lojban&#039;s potential in the computer processing field. Some of the technical details will be of interest only to computer programmers and logicians, but the Lojban in the following is a human language, not a computer language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But it also happens that, as cited in the proposal above, Lojban is so thoroughly defined as to be a logical equivalent of Prolog, a computer language that is one of those most frequently used in artificial intelligence and natural language processing. To demonstrate this, John Cowan prepared a couple of examples. The first is an implementation, in a Lojban &amp;quot;computer language&amp;quot; subset, of a complete Prolog algorithm. Then John goes the other direction - from a Lojban translation of a complex English language &#039;logic problem&#039; into a Prolog equivalent - showing the applicability of Lojban both as an intermediate to computer program expression as well as logical analysis. John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Except for the universal quantification at the beginning of each Lojban sentence (which is there because Prolog variables are implicitly quantified universally), the Prolog and the Lojban are formally equivalent. Of course, Lojban is far richer than Prolog -- it is a complete human language, which Prolog surely is not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following algorithm, expressed in Lojban, describes how to sort a list of numbers (or anything comparable with &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;) into least-first order using Hoare&#039;s quicksort algorithm. It is a direct translation of a Prolog equivalent, except that the arguments have been re-ordered to bring results to the beginning, in conformity with Lojbanic conventions. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u: &lt;br /&gt;
     da poirvelmi&#039;a la nil. da&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda rode rodi rodixire zo&#039;u: de ce&#039;o dixire poirvelmi&#039;a de ce&#039;o di da&lt;br /&gt;
     .inaja dixire poirvelmi&#039;a di da&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda rodaxipa rodaxire rode rodi zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     de ce&#039;o daxipa daxire skamrpartiti de di ce&#039;o da&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai de mleca di&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo daxipa daxire skamrpartiti di da&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda rodaxipa rodaxire rode rodi zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     daxipa de ce&#039;o daxire skamrpartiti de di ce&#039;o da&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai de zmadu di&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo daxipa daxire skamrpartiti di da&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     la nil. la nil. skamrpartiti da la nil. &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o la nil. poirja&#039;e la nil.&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda rodaxipa rodaxire rode rodexipa rodexire rodi zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     de poirja&#039;e di ce&#039;o da&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai daxipa daxire skamrpartiti di da&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo dexipa poirja&#039;e daxipa&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo dexire poirja&#039;e daxire&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo de poirvelmi&#039;a dexipa di ce&#039;o dexire&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 pau? li ci ce&#039;o li pa ce&#039;o li vo ce&#039;o li pa ce&#039;o li mu poirvelmi&#039;a ma?&lt;br /&gt;
 li ci ce&#039;o li pa ce&#039;o li vo ce&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
 li pa ce&#039;o li mu poirvelmi&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
 li pa ce&#039;o li pa ce&#039;o li ci ce&#039;o li vo ce&#039;o li mu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;program&#039; consists of definitions of the following 3 functions, which use the place structures as indicated:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
poirvelmi&#039;a: x1 is the result of appending x2 to x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
skamrpartiti: x1 and x2 are a partition on pivot x3 of list x4 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[For non-technical people, this means that a list of values is divided into to sub-lists (greater and lesser) based on comparison with a single value (the pivot). A complicated lujvo based on &amp;quot;fendi&amp;quot; could perhaps have been used instead of this borrowing: x1 and x2 of this function correspond to the x3 of fendi (joined together by a non-logical connective in the latter case), x3 corresponds to the x4 of fendi, and x4 to the x2 of fendi]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
poirja&#039;e: x1 is the result of ordering x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la nil. is the name of the null list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus a translation of the first function is: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
 For all-X,&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
   da poirvelmi&#039;a la nil. da&lt;br /&gt;
   X is-the-result-of-joining that- named &amp;quot;nil&amp;quot; and X.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda rode rodi rodixire zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
   For all-X, all-Y, all-Z, all-U:&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
     de ce&#039;o dixire poirvelmi&#039;a de ce&#039;o di da&lt;br /&gt;
     Y ordered-with U is-the- result-of-joining (Y ordered- with Z and X.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
     .inaja dixire poirvelmi&#039;a di da&lt;br /&gt;
     only-if U is-the-result-of- joining Z and X. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 append(X, nil, X).&lt;br /&gt;
 append([Y | U], [Y | Z], X) :-&lt;br /&gt;
 append(U, Z, X).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of the other two functions is left as an &#039;exercise&#039;. The last two lines of the Lojban ask the correct sort order of a list of numbers, and present the correct sorted answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Prolog is effectively a subset of Lojban, using many of the same concepts and terminology. The following English word problem, from John F. Sowa of IBM, neatly illustrates the process that can make Lojban machine-intelligible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sowa&#039;s original English: Washable allergenic things are washed. Nonwashable allergenic things are vacuumed. Everything that is gray and fuzzy is allergenic. Shirts, socks, pajamas, dogs, and llamas are washable. Lamps, sofas, cats, and computers are nonwashable. Following are my gray, fuzzy possessions: my pajamas, my sofa, my cat Thothmes, and my llama Mil-licent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... [D]etermine which of my possessions are washed and which vacuumed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A free Lojban translation of the English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro lu&#039;ircumki je bilmrsalergeni cu jaurselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro nalylu&#039;icumki je bilmrsalergeni cu sakcyselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro grusi je sulpo&#039;e cu bilmrsalergeni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro creka .e ro smoka .e ro siptaxfu .e ro gerku .e ro tcokumte cu lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro tergu&#039;imi&#039;i .e ro sfofa .e ro mlatu .e ro skami cu nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lemi siptaxfu .e lemi sfofa .e la totmes. poi mlatu .e la milisent. poi tcokumte cu grusi je sulpo&#039;e je selponse be mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro ma jaurselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro ma sakcyselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Literal rendering of the Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All wash-possible and sick- allergenic things are water-be- washed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All non-wash-possible and sick- allergenic things are suck-be- washed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All gray and wool-possessing things are sick-allergenic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All shirts and all socks and all sleep-garments and all dogs and all South-American-camels are wash-possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All illumination-source-machines and all sofas and all cats and all computers are non-wash- possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My sleep-garment and my sofa and Thothmes who is-a-cat and Millicent who is-a-South- American-camel are gray and wool-possessing and possessed by me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All what-things are-water-be- washed?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All what-things are-suck-be- washed?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Formalized Lojban suitable for Prolog conversion: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da jaurselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo da bilmrsalergeni&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da sakcyselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo da bilmrsalergeni &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da bilmrsalergeni&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da grusi&lt;br /&gt;
       .ijebo da sulpo&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da creka&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da smoka&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da siptaxfu&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da gerku&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da lu&#039;ircumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da tcokumte &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da tergu&#039;imi&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da sfofa&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
   .i roda zo&#039;u:&lt;br /&gt;
     da nalylu&#039;icumki&lt;br /&gt;
     .ijanai da skami&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o mi ponse le siptaxfu&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le siptaxfu cu siptaxfu&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le siptaxfu cu grusi&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le siptaxfu cu sulpo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o mi ponse le sfofa&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le sfofa cu sfofa&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le sfofa cu grusi&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le sfofa cu sulpo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o mi ponse la totmes.&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la totmes. cu mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la totmes. cu grusi&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la totmes cu sulpo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o mi ponse la milisent.&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la milisent. cu tcokumte&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la milisent. cu grusi&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la milisent. cu sulpo&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;oni&#039;o ma? jaurselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le siptaxfu cu jaurselylumci re&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la milisent. jaurselylumci re&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
   fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o ma? sakcyselylumci&lt;br /&gt;
   .i le sfofa cu sakcyselylumci re&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
   .i la totmes. cu sakcyselylumci re&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
   fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Literal translation of the formalized Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-water-be-washed&lt;br /&gt;
     if (x is-wash-possible &lt;br /&gt;
       and x is-allergenic).&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-suck-be-washed&lt;br /&gt;
     if (x is-non-wash-possible &lt;br /&gt;
       and x is-allergenic).&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] For-all x&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-allergenic&lt;br /&gt;
     if (x is-gray &lt;br /&gt;
       and x is-wool-possessing)&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-shirt.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-sock.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-sleep-garment.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-dog.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-South-American- camel.&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-non-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-an-illumination-source- machine.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-non-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-sofa.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-non-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-cat.&lt;br /&gt;
   For-all x:&lt;br /&gt;
     x is-non-wash-possible&lt;br /&gt;
     if x is-a-computer.&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] I possess that- described-as-a sleep-garment.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sleep- garment is-a-sleep-garment.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sleep- garment is-gray.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sleep- garment is-wool-possessing.&lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] I possess that- described-as-a sofa.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sofa is-a- sofa.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sofa is- gray.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sofa is- wool-possessing. [New-topic] I possess that-called Thothmes.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Thothmes is-a-cat.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Thothmes is-gray.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Thothmes is-wool- possessing. &lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] I possess that-called Millicent.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Millicent is a South-American-camel.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Millicent is-gray.&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Millicent is-wool- possessing.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 [Entirely-new-topic] What is- water-be-washed?&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sleep- garment is-water-be-washed. [Ready-to-receive]&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Millicent is-water- be-washed. &lt;br /&gt;
 [Ready-to-receive]&lt;br /&gt;
   [end-of-transmission] &lt;br /&gt;
 [New-topic] What is-suck-be- washed?&lt;br /&gt;
   That-described-as-a sofa is- suck-be-washed [Ready-to-receive]&lt;br /&gt;
   That-called Thothmes is-suck-be- washed &lt;br /&gt;
 [Ready-to-receive]&lt;br /&gt;
   [End-of-transmission]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sowa&#039;s original (English-based) Prolog, converted from IBM to Edinburgh syntax: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 washed(X) :- washable(X), allergenic(X). &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 vacuumed(X) :- nonwashable(X), &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 allergenic(X). allergenic(X) :- gray(X), fuzzy(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 washable(X) :- shirt(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 washable(X) :- sock(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 washable(X) :- pajama(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 washable(X) :- dog(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 washable(X) :- llama(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 nonwashable(X) :- lamp(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 nonwashable(X) :- sofa(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 nonwashable(X) :- cat(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 nonwashable(X) :- computer(X).&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 possess(me, pj1). &lt;br /&gt;
   pajama(pj1). &lt;br /&gt;
   gray(pj1). &lt;br /&gt;
   fuzzy(pj1).&lt;br /&gt;
 possess(me, sf1). &lt;br /&gt;
   sofa(pj1). &lt;br /&gt;
   gray(pj1). &lt;br /&gt;
   fuzzy(pj1).&lt;br /&gt;
 possess(me, thothmes). &lt;br /&gt;
   cat(thothmes). &lt;br /&gt;
   gray(thothmes). &lt;br /&gt;
   fuzzy(thothmes).&lt;br /&gt;
 possess(me, millicent). &lt;br /&gt;
   llama(millicent). &lt;br /&gt;
   gray(millicent). &lt;br /&gt;
   fuzzy(millicent).&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 ?- washed(X)&lt;br /&gt;
 washed(pj1)&lt;br /&gt;
 ;&lt;br /&gt;
 washed(millicent)&lt;br /&gt;
 ;&lt;br /&gt;
 no&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 ?-vacuumed(X)&lt;br /&gt;
 vacuumed(sf1)&lt;br /&gt;
 ;&lt;br /&gt;
 vacuumed(thothmes)&lt;br /&gt;
 ;&lt;br /&gt;
 no &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== DLT - Esperanto-based Machine Translation ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As our last item on the topic of computer natural language processing, we reprint a short report on the status of the Distributed Language Translator (DLT) project in the Netherlands. Dan Maxwell, who writes this, has been on the project staff. DLT is the machine translation system cited in the proposal above (see page 30) which uses a modified Esperanto as its interlingua.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dan Maxwell, maxwell@ltb.bso.nl, responds to the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, with all this discussion of interlinguas for computer translation, it might be interesting to hear from Dan Maxwell why BSO chose Esperanto for their DLT project and not Loglan (which already had two decades behind it at the time) or some other conlang, of which there are quite a number, or even one developed specifically for the purpose. Why they would choose a conlang instead of an ethnic language seems more readily apparent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decision to use Esperanto was made by the creator of DLT, Toon Witkam, back in 1979. As far as I know, he never seriously considered another conlang, taking Esperanto as a given fundamental property of the project, although at the time he was not a speaker of Esperanto. He probably knew little or nothing about other possibilities, and maybe it never occurred to him to look into this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He is no longer with the former DLT group, but is still on the BSO payroll. I can find out how to contact him in BSO if anyone is interested.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban seems to have certain theoretical advantages over Esperanto as an interlingua. On the other hand, Esperanto has been more tested in practice (well, as a language for humans at least) and had a larger pool of speakers to draw the people in the project from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmm. Maybe the advantages and disadvantages of Esperanto compared to Lojban are the same as the advantages and disadvantages of English compared to Esperanto. Comments invited.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several people sent me questions about DLT. So instead of writing individual responses, I decided to write a general one for all conlangers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The use of Esperanto does not solve all problems involved in machine translation - I hope that we never claimed it would - but does reduce some of them and provide an interesting framework for attempting to solve others. Even though our modified Esperanto was, we think, structurally unambiguous, this only gives us a way of representing alternative meanings (both lexical and structural) in the source language (This was English in our prototype), not of choosing among them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In order to choose among them, we devised a module called SWESIL (Semantic Word Expert System In the Inter-Lingua), which made use of a probability-based algorithm drawing on a knowledge bank about semantic relatedness in Esperanto. This is described in some detail (c. 250 pages) in Working with Analogical Semantics: Disambiguation techniques in DLT, 1989, by Victor Sadler, Foris Publications, Box 5904, Dordrecht, Netherlands. It is number 5 of the DLT series.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also get a less detailed (30 pages) and less expensive summary of the entire project in: Distributed Language Translation: A Multilingual Machine Translation Project, 1990., available from: Indiana University Linguistics Club, 720 Atwater St., Bloomington, IN 47401. You can get it from the above address for a few dollars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Esperantists, there will be a paper by me called &amp;quot;Perkomputila Tradukado: la revo kaj la realo&amp;quot; published in the series Oficialaj Esperanto-Dokumentoj coming out in a few months. This deals more generally with the problems of machine translation and is aimed at a wider (Esperanto) public than just linguists. But also the one from Indiana is fairly nontechnical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
SWESIL was implemented on a limited scale in our prototype (first version 1987, second version 1988). We felt that it achieved what were in principle reasonable results for the amount of money and manpower expended. But our prototype, like most prototypes, needed to be redesigned and expanded. Unfortunately, we never got a chance to test this, because our funding ran out. We had a sixyear grant from the Dutch government (matched by our company), but this ended in mid-1990. We had hoped to find an industrial partner to continue the funding of the project by then, but our search was unsuccessful. We are still keeping our eyes open, but are not actively searching.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The modifications to Esperanto in the early planning stages (early 1980s) were relatively radical, but perhaps about 80% of them were eliminated after the project started for real. This all happened before I joined the project in 1986. The move back toward normal Esperanto was done mainly for a practical reason: we needed the support of the Esperanto community. That is, we needed Esperantists to work in the project, and this would be made more difficult by changes which hindered their understanding of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most important remaining modifications were: dividers between the morphemes within a word; e.g., &amp;quot;util&#039;ig&#039;ebl&#039;a&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;utiligebla&amp;quot;, and extra spaces to distinguish between the readings of sentences like &amp;quot;I ate the fish on the table&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;old men and women&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Outside of these we had various lexical innovations like &amp;quot;antaw ke&amp;quot; (the subordinating conjunction &amp;quot;before&amp;quot;) instead of &amp;quot;antaw ol&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;kaw&amp;quot; in place of &amp;quot;kaj&amp;quot; (and) if the coordinated objects have the same referent, as in &amp;quot;my friend and companion&amp;quot;. Compound tenses written as one word (&amp;quot;trink&#039;ont&#039;is&amp;quot;= &amp;quot;was about to drink&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;estis trinkonta&amp;quot;). Many of these minor modifications are in fact used by some Esperantists. A complete description of these is available on paper in Esperanto, but not in English. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (cont.) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More of Nora&#039;s examples from the incomplete draft lessons. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Examples of numerical predicates ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 + 2 = 4 3 + 3 = 6 4 + 4 = 7&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti cimei sumji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is a three-some sum.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le cimoi sumji cu na drani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the three-th sum is not: correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le pamoi remei sumji cu drani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the one-th two-some sums are correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do bimoi le liste be le cpedu le se detri be lenu cpedu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are two-th in the list of the requestors, ordered by date of the event of requesting.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are the second one to ask, in date order.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i la rik. so&#039;imoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And Rick is the many-th.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .uu mi romoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And (Pity!) I am the all-th (the last).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo romoi ba pamoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the all-th will-be one-th. (The last shall be first.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le cutci remei cu barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The shoe two-some is large.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The pair of shoes is large.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le se remei be le&#039;i cutci cu barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the members of the two-some of the set of shoes are large.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le se remei poi jadni le cutci cu barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the members of the two-some which adorn the shoes are large.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(The two things ornamenting the shoes are large.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le se remei poi ponse le cutci noi se vomei cu barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And the members of the two-some that possess the shoes, which are members of a four-some, are large.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The two owners of the shoes (of which there are four), are large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vi le gusta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;At the restaurant:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A: do xomei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are a how-many-some?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How many in your party?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;B: mi vomei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;We are a four-some.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko poi romoi cu ganlygau le vorme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Imperative!) You the all-th one!, closed-do the door.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti soso pivovo ce&#039;isi&#039;e curve&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is-99.44%-portion pure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti botpi le plise pipasi&#039;e jisra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is-a-bottle of the apple-.1- portion juice.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This bottle of juice is 10% apple juice. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lenu carvi cu pizemu cu&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The event of rain is .75- probability. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Examples of the less well-known abstractors ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi pu nelci lesi&#039;o mulri&#039;a le bangu .enai lepu&#039;u mulri&#039;a le bangu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I was fond of the idea of completing the language, and- not: the process of completing the language. [Ed. note - this accurately reflects Nora&#039;s views on the drawn-out completion of Loglan/Lojban.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la fred. na nelci lezu&#039;o limna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Fred is not: fond-of the activity of swimming &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leli&#039;i terpa cu rinka lenu morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The experience of being-afraid causes the event of being-dead.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Fear causes death. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leli&#039;i cortu le na zasti tuple cu cizra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The experience of feeling-pain in the not: existing-leg is strange. [The experience abstractor was proposed by a Lojbanist who has lost a leg, noting that such amputees feel such &#039;phantom pains&#039; in the non- existent leg. &amp;quot;li&#039;i&amp;quot; provides a way to talk about such personal experiences that may be otherwise distinct from &#039;reality&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lemu&#039;e prane roda cu na cumki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The achievement-point of perfection in everything is not: possible. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do viska mi va&#039;o lemu&#039;e mi snada&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You see me in-environment the achievement point of my being successful.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You see me at the point of success.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
da pu dicra leza&#039;i do sipna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something interrupted the state of you being asleep.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something interrupted your sleep.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A more complex example ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 mi ba logji cipra le za&#039;i nelci la rik. .e la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
 I will logically-prove the state of fondness for Rick and Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 .i pamo&#039;o xu la rik. nelci la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
 Section 1 - Is-it-true? Rick is fond of Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
   .i pamai roda na.a la rik. cu nelci la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
   1. Everyone1 Not!, or Rick, is fond of Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
   1. If everyone, then Rick, is fond of Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
   .ije remai la fred. cu nelci la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
   And 2. Fred is fond of Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
   .ije cimai di&#039;u cu nibli le za&#039;i de nelci la .alis.&lt;br /&gt;
   And 3. The last sentence logically necessitates the state of someone2 being fond of Alice.&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
   .ije .ua leza&#039;i la rik. cu nelci la .alis. cu se nibli&lt;br /&gt;
   And (Discovery!) The state of Rick being fond of Alice is logically necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
   [Ed. note. Needless to say, this proof is logically flawed..]&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
 .i remo&#039;o xu la .alis. nelci la rik.&lt;br /&gt;
 2nd section is-it-true? alice is fond of rick.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
   .i pamai la .alis. cu nelci rodi poi nelci ri&lt;br /&gt;
   1. alice is fond of everyone3 who is-fond-of her.&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
   .ije remai la rik. cu nelci la .alis. ni&#039;i le pamoi mu&#039;e cipra&lt;br /&gt;
   And 2. rick is fond of alice logically-necessitated by the first achievement of proof.&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;br /&gt;
   .ije .ua la .alis. cu nelci la rik ni&#039;i le puvi jufra remei&lt;br /&gt;
   And (discovery!) alice is fond of rick logically necessitated by the previous-here sentence two-some.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
 .i la rik la .alis. cu nelci gi&#039;e .ui se nelci &lt;br /&gt;
 rick, of alice, is fond and (happiness!) is-be-fonded-by.&lt;br /&gt;
 rick is fond of alice and vice versa. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Lojbanic Cultural Allegory ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For a lighter touch, comes the following, assembled by Nick Nicholas from computer net messages. The metaphors suggested by the allegory given have caught on among the most skilled Lojbanists, those referred to in the discussion. These include Nick Nicholas, Ivan Derzhanski, Bob Lechevalier, John Cowan, Colin Fine, Mark Shoulson. Other names referenced in the text are Zamenhof, inventor of Esperanto, Jim Brown, Founder of the Loglan project, Schleyer, inventor of Volapk, and Jim Carter, who I addition to supporting Lojban, has developed his predicate language. Bruce Gilson, has similar spurred a recent effort on the net to invent a &#039;predicate language without place structures&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following very interesting exchange happened on conlang list: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Don Harlow &amp;lt;72627.2647@compuserve.com&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bear with me for a moment. Much of the conlang discussion I&#039;ve seen over thirty years - this includes not only a month and a half of the conlang list, but also the Hardins&#039; &amp;quot;International Language Review,&amp;quot; various magazines published by proponents of various language projects, etc. - makes me think of a group of would-be rock-climbers clustered at the foot of El Capitan, a 1000-meter sheer wall on the north side of Yosemite Valley, who are arguing among themselves about the proper technique for starting their climb to the top. Two or three have actually tried to start; a couple got three meters off the ground and then fell back, bruising their glutei maximi (gluteos maximos, but I don&#039;t want to offend anybody by using an accusative ending) in the process, and one has actually attained the twenty meter level, is gritting his teeth in sheer determination, and glumly contemplates the 980 meters ahead of him. Meanwhile, the only thing the ones on the ground seem able to agree on is that the guy at twenty meters up bought his equipment at a fire sale and learned his climbing technique in a sandbox. They may be right; this is, after all, his first climb, too, just as it is theirs. One of them even shouts at him that if he had any consideration, he&#039;d rapelle back to the ground and make way for some competent climbers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I should add that there&#039;s a gang of apes at the top who, every now and then when they see someone actually climbing, will kick a 100 kg. rock down at him to try to n knock him off. They own the top of the cliff, and don&#039;t want you to forget it. If you doubt this, read Ulrich Lins&#039;s La dan&amp;lt;gera lingvo, all 500+ pages of it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As to proper climbing technique, the main question on which they cannot agree is this: is the best tool with which to start our climb a three-legged stool, a kitchen chair, or a Sears &amp;amp; Roebuck folding metal stepladder?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stools, chairs and stepladders all have their places in climbing - getting that book off the top shelf, cleaning out the rain gutters, getting to the faucet when you&#039;re three years old. But they&#039;re out of place at the foot of El Capitan. In other words, the climbers are asking the wrong question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, if you&#039;re a scientific, experimental, literary, or simply curious conlanger, questions about linguistic structure, vocabulary sources, etc. are all important and valid ones. Not only that, they&#039;re fun to argue (if you don&#039;t make the mistake of taking them too seriously). But if you&#039;re a &amp;quot;global&amp;quot; conlanger - a proponent of some particular conlang, or even of just any old conlang, as a global interlanguage, they are ultimately irrelevant, or at best only marginally relevant. Yeah, that stepladder&#039;s the best of the three - it&#039;ll get you two meters off the ground, and leave you a mere 998 meters to go, using techniques that have nothing whatsoever to do with stools, chairs or stepladders. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, that guy&#039;s still twenty meters up and climbing; he learned early to use pitons. And he&#039;s a lot more worried about those apes at the top than he is about you. Maybe you can pass him while he&#039;s sleeping. Maybe he&#039;ll fall off when he tries to sling a hammock. Maybe the apes will hit him with a rock. Maybe, once you actually start climbing, they&#039;ll hit you with a rock! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Nick Nicholas &amp;lt;nsn@mullian.ee.Mu.OZ.AU&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Don, a very good response there. Just a couple of clarifications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not everyone is going rock-climbing up the wall you talk about. Some see the apes abseiling down, for instance, and aren&#039;t that fussed. Sure, the apes tend to collide with each other. but they do tend to cover a lot of ground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few members of the El Zamenhofo climbing team, on the other hand (schismatics led by Il Silferissimo), and more than half the Lojbo Jimbobs (not to mention a fair few types clothed in elvish gear) aren&#039;t as fussed about the wall as the others. They&#039;ve found a few relatively shallow pits, and are usually happy to jump in and out of them. The Jimbobs like somersaulting in their soft sandpit. The Silferistas go around performing home improvement operations on their somewhat deeper pit, taking advantage of the fact that their pit has been boot camp for the Zamenhofos for a long time. Some of the stones hurled by the apes have landed in this pit; some even think that lends the pit atmosphere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t know how valid the analogy is; as for me, I receive mail at both pits, and am usually not that distressed about the niches the mainstream Zamenhofos, yonder-ways, are carving into the face of the wall with their penknives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ugh. I don&#039;t do this analogy thing as well as you, Don :) In any case; it is not true that all the subscribers of conlang eat, drink, and sleep the wall. Me, I&#039;m finding my sandpit a lot of fun. So does Ivan derJimbob, Mark Joulsonbob, and Colin Jinebob. Bob LeJimbob doesn&#039;t hang around our particular sandpit these days, but he isn&#039;t really at the wall you&#039;re at, either. He&#039;s found himself a 500 meter wall, and he&#039;s got rungs, but he&#039;s still waiting for the hammers. As to whether your shouted instruction, from your wall across the sandpits to his, will help him (and those in the sandpit), time will tell. (That and, as you say, the skeleton of the &amp;quot;Schleyer ist Herrgot&amp;quot; team-member you passed by in 1895).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really should lay offa them drugs. Apologies to anyone who has felt offended by this very confused analogy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan &amp;lt;cowan@snark.thyrsus.com&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nickbob writes: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Me, I&#039;m finding my sandpit a lot of fun. So does Ivan derJimbob, Mark Joulsonbob, and Colin Jinebob. Bob LeJimbob doesn&#039;t hang around our particular sandpit these days, but he isn&#039;t really at the wall you&#039;re at, either. He&#039;s found himself a 500 meter wall, and he&#039;s got rungs, but he&#039;s still waiting for the hammers. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John McJohnbob, who always seems (inexplicably) to get left out of these lists, is squatting in the bottom of the sandpit, feverishly re-reading his three-foot shelf of climbing documentation (poorly bound, unindexed, and typeset entirely in mono-spaced Flyspeck 3). In the other hand, he holds a much-marked-up list of needed equipment. &amp;quot;Let&#039;s see: rope, hammers, pitons, crampons, tampons, clamp-ons, spit, chewing gum....&amp;quot;, he mutters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And then we mustn&#039;t forget Carter Jimbob, who sits at the side of the pit with his back to the rest of the Jimbobs (he does look over his shoulder occasionally). He is engaged in digging out a small but deep excavation with his bare hands, and is sometimes heard to wonder why he can&#039;t seem to keep the sand from falling back in so fast. Next to him are Bruce Jilsonbob and his merry men, who are doing the same with their larger but much shallower hole. The sand is falling back into their hole as well, but they are digging so fast they haven&#039;t really noticed yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a rumor among the Jimbobs that somewhere in the pit, or perhaps in a different pit of the same size and shape (this question being hotly debated among the Jimbobs) there still exists the legendary First Digger, Jim- brownbob. But whereas the First Digger was formerly notorious for the volume of his voice, audible at every part of the pit, those who claim to have spoken with him in recent years say that he has become much subdued and hard to hear, and even (in one of his rare public appearances) completely inaudible. (The title of &amp;quot;First Digger&amp;quot; signifies only that in meetings of the Jimbobs, he digs first.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And so on....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
John McJohnbob, who always seems (inexplicably) to get left out of these lists...&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, it is strange that I keep doing this, isn&#039;t it? Hm. If the conlangistanis will pardon the Lojban politics, part of the reason is that you seem to be the only person around writing up shopping lists for climbing equipment (and toy shovels). In that respect, you are, I daresay, a tad above the sandpit. After all, when I tell Mum all the great friends I made at kindergarten today, the Teacher doesn&#039;t spring to mind, any more than does the School Principal. Perhaps he should. Especially as Teach is no stranger to the sandpit games, the latest of which involved Beowulf :). [Editor&#039;s note - John Cowan recently translated a small piece of Beowulf into Lojban]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My hats off, though, for a brilliant sandpit tale, which deserves to get into a JL or three.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Signed] Nick, splashing sand far and wide, currently running a game in which a circle of people pour the same cupful of sand into each other&#039;s hands (the phone game).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan responds to Nick&#039;s comments about his &#039;Jimbob name&#039; and kindergarten:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
John McJohnbob writes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(By the way, John, why the &amp;quot;Mc&amp;quot;?)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is simple. &amp;quot;Cowan&amp;quot; is an Irish name, &amp;quot;Mac Eoin&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;Eoin&amp;quot; (pronounced roughly &amp;quot;Owen&amp;quot;) is the earlier Irish form of &amp;quot;John&amp;quot;. So I am John, son of John. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
After all, when I tell Mum all the great friends I made at kindergarten today, the Teacher doesn&#039;t spring to mind, any more than does the School Principal. Perhaps he should. Especially as Teach is no stranger to the sandpit games... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s what you say. When my four-year-old daughter actually went to kindergarten, the first friend she mentioned was the teacher. (I should mention that this is one-a-dem progressive places wherein Teach is known as &amp;quot;Julie&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;Ms. Kirkpatrick.&amp;quot;) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (cont.) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here is Nick&#039;s summary of a second &#039;phone game&#039; message, one that did not pass as clearly from person to person. Note that the group is fairly tolerant of Lojban grammar errors, which is after all one reason why errors in &#039;transmission&#039; can occur in the phone game. Since this is a game, it is desirable that some errors occur - that is how the participants (and you who read this) learn what is important in Lojban translation, which after all is a science in its early infancy. Here&#039;s Nick: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second phrase to go through the phone game was: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Prince once said, sweetheart, (if I remember correctly) &amp;quot;If I was your girlfriend, would you still tell me all those things only girlfriends talk about&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia handled it as: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
doi titselprami cu&#039;u la .prins ju&#039;ocu&#039;i xu do cusku roda poi selcasnu no de poi na fetypendo ku&#039;o ku&#039;o mi noi da&#039;i fetypendo do &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Oh sweet-beloved, (this sentence is expressed by Prince (uncertain) (was it?)) you express everything which is discussed by none other than a female friend to me who is (suppose) a girlfriend of you.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;noi da&#039;i fetypendo&amp;quot; is an excellent compression of the English. By the way, fetpendo is quite alright. The fault creeps in with the form of quotation used. Does the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; tie with the whole sentence (as intended) or only with the name Prince? (Actually, both make sense.) More importantly, is the &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; of the phrase the &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; Prince spoke to, or the person I&#039;m speaking to? I tend to favour the latter: the &amp;quot;cu&#039;u la prins.&amp;quot; is a tagged-on part of the sentence, and shouldn&#039;t, I feel, alter the referent of &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;. And finally, is &amp;quot;doi titselprami&amp;quot; included in the quote or not? I see no reason why it shouldn&#039;t be included. The result thus comes out (assume I am talking to Kate, and Prince was talking to Cat):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think Prince said this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweetheart, do you, Kate...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
as opposed to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think Prince said this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Sweetheart, do you, Cat...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but not I think (others may disagree):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think Prince said this, sweetheart Kate: &amp;quot;Do you, Cat...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is critical. The conclusion, regrettably, is that &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; is not the safest way of quoting in a sentence, unless the whole sentence is quoted - including &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; (about UI I&#039;m not sure), AND I still think &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; outside quotes (even with a &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; tag) stills refers to your addressee, not the quotee&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it&#039;s deeper - though in a way simpler - than your argument. &amp;quot;cu&#039;u la prins&amp;quot; is an adjunct not of the jufra, still less the selcu&#039;u, but strictly of the bridi. We have a selbri &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; relating several sumti: &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;roda li&#039;o&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; ... AND &amp;quot;la prins.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You express all that ... to me who ... as said by Prince. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I started off writing this comment thinking that you were basically right, and the Lojban did not work, but having written the above, I think it does, and is very clever indeed (once the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; is moved to the proper place). It is NOT a literal translation, but it works for me. The basic bridi is saying &amp;quot;Do you tell me all the things, supposing ...&amp;quot; so the &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase adds &amp;quot;As prince said, I think, ...&amp;quot; I think your vocative stuff is missing the point: &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; cannot be asserting that anything in particular was actually said by Prince, since (except in the construction &amp;quot;pecu&#039;u&amp;quot; etc.) there isn&#039;t anything there to be the quotation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Nick gripes that that&#039;s pretty much what he was saying :) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I notice that the translation omits &amp;quot;still&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adds Mark:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original sentence is pretty convoluted to start with. Might have worked better with &amp;quot;doi titselprami la prins. ju&#039;ocu&#039;ipei cusku lu xu do cusku... li&#039;u&amp;quot;, that is, use lu/li&#039;u to scope the quote. Hence the problem with the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; getting attached to Prince. Something is sorta strange about &amp;quot;roda poi selcasnu no de poi na fetypendo&amp;quot;, but something in me likes it. It&#039;s not literally what the original had, but I didn&#039;t misunderstand it, and it&#039;s elegant and logical. I&#039;m a little unsure about &amp;quot;titselprami&amp;quot;; I&#039;d think that attaching figurative qualities such as &amp;quot;sweet&amp;quot; to a person would be cultural. I mean, is your sweetheart literally sweet? To the taste? I&#039;d feel better with a culture-flag (&amp;quot;ku&#039;u&amp;quot;?) or &amp;quot;pe&#039;a&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; or their rafsi somewhere in there to clear things up. Or even drop it entirely. &#039;Course, then subsequent people wouldn&#039;t think &amp;quot;Sweetheart&amp;quot; where they did now, but remember we have the advantage of all having good colloquial command of English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something about &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot;: It&#039;s a BAI, so it attaches to the selbri, and thus in some sense I see it as attaching to the x1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbab: No! A bridi is not necessarily a claim about x1 in particular among the sumti, but about all of the sumti. The only special role of x1 in the language comes from its accessibility to &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; for making description sumti.] My translation probably didn&#039;t use this logic, but consider it a moment. &amp;quot;mi klama cu&#039;u la bab.&amp;quot; This doesn&#039;t mean &amp;quot;Bob says, &amp;quot;I&#039;m coming&amp;quot;. It means &amp;quot;I am-a-goer with-expressor &#039;bob&#039;&amp;quot;, so &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; is the speaker (I guess I&#039;m agreeing with you here, Nick). I really don&#039;t know exactly what the semantics of this sentence would be, since &amp;quot;going&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t make too much sense with an &amp;quot;expressor&amp;quot; place; barely more than it would make with a &amp;quot;chocolate&amp;quot; place (fi&#039;o cakla). I don&#039;t think I trust &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; in this particular sentence (the one I just said and the Prince sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh, and grammatically the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; had to attach to &amp;quot;la prins.&amp;quot;, the way things were written.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbab notes that the intent with &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; is to be used to quote either directly or indirectly. Quote marks would indeed delimit a direct quote most accurately, in which case you must have &amp;quot;cu&#039;usa&#039;a&amp;quot; to indicate that the &#039;said by&#039; isn&#039;t part of the quote proper. Thus the tradeoff is whether, in the original, the quote is merely an accurate direct quote, or whether the intent is, as for most English speakers who quote famous sayings in analogy to their own lives, that the meanings of referenced &#039;variables&#039; be adapted to the analogy. As an indirect quote, an expressor place makes plenty of sense. &amp;quot;mi klama cu&#039;u la bab.&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;Bob says that I went&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;Bob says &#039;I went&#039;&amp;quot; An indirect quote is usually intended to reflect fairly accurately what the speaker actually said without trying for literal quotation. &amp;quot;du&#039;o&amp;quot; is a more vague source attribution that is available, meaning &#039;according to&#039;; it would typically be used when reporting (in paraphrase) the information content of the source material.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark was in two minds between: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweetheart, was it Prince who said you&#039;d tell me everything that only girlfriends talk about, if I were your girlfriend? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Sweetheart,&#039; said Prince, &#039;Would you tell me everything discussed by only girlfriends if I were your girlfriend?&#039; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first alternative points out the fact that the referent of &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; is still the addressee. It is, I feel, the more natural interpretation of the Lojban text. It has the question hanging on the identity of Prince rather than the whole statement; again, this is what the Lojban text implies. &amp;quot;doi titselprami&amp;quot; refers to the addressee as does &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second alternative has Mark trying to guess what was really meant: namely, that &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; was an attempt at literal quoting. Unfortunately, you can&#039;t have the &amp;quot;ju&#039;ocu&#039;i&amp;quot; tying to the name Prince and the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; to the main sentence; thus the &amp;quot;Prince, I think&amp;quot; is lost. Furthermore, the &amp;quot;doi titselprami&amp;quot; is assumed to be part of what Prince is saying. Apart from that, it&#039;s an accurate guess, but Mark felt it more honest to rely on the text given, and chose the first alternative, which Colin translated as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
doi selprami la prins. xu du le cusku be ledu&#039;u do ba cusku fi mi fe ro te tavla befi da na.a lo pendyfetsi va&#039;o mi do pendyfetsi da&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Beloved, was Prince the one who expressed the sentence: you will tell me all the things talked about by X only if a girlfriend does, in the environment of me, in the medium of you, undefined argument: girlfriend (suppose).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main error is the omission of &amp;quot;va&#039;o lenu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;da na.a lo pendyfetsi&amp;quot;, surprisingly to me after a half-minute&#039;s truth-table, works well; but I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s that intuitable. I don&#039;t think the &amp;quot;be ledu&#039;u&amp;quot; &#039;quoted&#039; sentence is that elegant as a whole (the nesting and reordering seem unnecessary), but the meaning is conveyed, though the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; seems to me misleading.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colin comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As often, there&#039;s a tension between precision and elegance. &amp;quot;la prins xu cusku ledu&#039;u&amp;quot; might have done, but seemed to lose the force of &amp;quot;Was it Prince who&amp;quot;. I tend to use &amp;quot;fi mi fe role ...&amp;quot; to get a light sumti before a heavy one even when the original doesn&#039;t have that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Correcting the omission: we started with: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Prince once said, sweetheart, (if I remember correctly) &amp;quot;If I was your girlfriend, would you still tell me all those things only girlfriends talk about&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and ended up with: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Beloved, was it Prince who said that you would tell me everything talked about by people only if they&#039;re girlfriends, supposing that I was your girlfriend? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Close-ish, but not quite. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Morphology Algorithm ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Internal Revision 4.1, 8 June 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following will become the official baseline algorithm for resolution of Lojban text into individual words from sounds, stress, and pause. As such, it is the ultimate standard of Lojban&#039;s unambiguous resolvability, which may make Lojban speech recognition by computers more possible than for other languages. While the algorithm looks very complicated, almost all of it is resolving special cases, and performing what error detection and correction may be possible. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have a string representing the speech stream, marked with stress and pauses. We want to break it up into words. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# First, break at all pauses (cannot pause in the middle of a word).&lt;br /&gt;
# Then, pick the first piece that has not been uniquely resolved.&lt;br /&gt;
## The first thing is to deal with some constructs which are required to end with a pause:&lt;br /&gt;
### Names: &lt;br /&gt;
#### If the last letter of the piece is a consonant, we have a name. A name must have a pause before it UNLESS it is immediately preceded by a /la/, /lai/, /la&#039;i/ or /doi/ as a marker, and it cannot contain any of these markers unless the marker is immediately preceded by a consonant. So, look backwards from the end of the piece for any of the allowed markers. If we don&#039;t find one (e.g. /jonz/), then the whole piece has been resolved as a name. &lt;br /&gt;
#### If you do find such a marker, then check what immediately precedes it. If there is nothing (e.g. /ladjAn/), or if a vowel precedes (e.g. /mivIskaladjAn./, break off the marker as a resolved piece (/la/), and what follows it is also a resolved piece, a name (/djAn/), leaving us with whatever preceded the marker, if anything, as still unresolved (/mivIska/). &lt;br /&gt;
#### If what precedes the marker is a consonant (e.g. /karoslAInas/) then ignore the marker and continue looking backwards. This exception is allowed because /karos/ with no following pause cannot represent a separate word.&lt;br /&gt;
### &amp;quot;.y.&amp;quot;, the hesitation:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;If the piece consists solely of /y/, then it resolves as the hesitation word (which is required to be surrounded by pauses).&lt;br /&gt;
### Some lerfu words: specifically, the last lerfu word of a string if it ends in a &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; (e.g. /abubycydy/ or /y&#039;y/) must be followed by a pause: &lt;br /&gt;
#### If the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is preceded by a consonant, break off the consonant+&amp;quot;y&amp;quot; as a resolved lerfu word (e.g. /abubycydy/ gives /abubycy/ unresolved, and /dy/ resolved as a lerfu word). Continue breaking off any Cy pieces as lerfu words if they&#039;re there (e.g. unresolved /abubycy/ gives unresolved /abuby/ + resolved /cy/; then /abuby/ gives unresolved /abu/ plus resolved /by/).&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Note that the Cy-type lerfu words will NEVER come before the other lerfu word pieces in a breath-group - the &amp;quot;abu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;y&#039;y&amp;quot; types - since they begin with vowels, they MUST be preceded by pauses; and Cy followed by anything but another Cy must be followed by a pause (because &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is used as glue in lujvo, it could cause resolvability problems if not separate; e.g. /micybusmAbru/ would not uniquely resolve). &lt;br /&gt;
#### If the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is preceded by &amp;quot;V&#039;&amp;quot; (e.g. /y&#039;y/, break before the &amp;quot;V&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;V&#039;y&amp;quot; is resolved as a lerfu word. &lt;br /&gt;
#### If the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is preceded by an &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;iy&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;uy&amp;quot; are reserved) the piece cannot be resolved. d) If the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is preceded by a vowel (V) other than &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;u&amp;quot;, the piece is in error and cannot be further resolved.&lt;br /&gt;
## Next, see if the piece is composed entirely of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
### Check the piece to see if there are any consonant clusters (a consonant cluster is of one of the forms CC or CyC). If there are none, break up the piece before each consonant, resolving each piece as a cmavo (e.g. /alenumibaca&#039;a/ breaks into the cmavo /a/ + /le/ + /nu/ + /mi/ + /ba/ + /ca&#039;a/). If there are no consonants, the piece is a single cmavo. In either case, the piece is completely resolved.&lt;br /&gt;
## Now we have a piece which we are sure contains a brivla (a gismu, a lujvo or a le&#039;avla). We know that a brivla must have a consonant cluster (CC or CyC) within the 1st five letters (ignoring apostrophes in the count), and must have penultimate stress (ignoring &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; syllables, which are not allowed to be stressed).&lt;br /&gt;
### First, let&#039;s check for a potential error (a form which shouldn&#039;t arise):&lt;br /&gt;
#### If the piece contains no stress, but has a consonant cluster (CC or CyC), it is in error. The consonant cluster indicates it contains a brivla (gismu, lujvo or le&#039;avla), which requires penultimate stress. The only place this MIGHT validly occur is inside a zoi-quote (and therefore need not be resolved at all).&lt;br /&gt;
#### However, if stress information is not available, assume the brivla ends at the end of the piece. (This rule gives the right behavior with canonical written Lojban, where spaces separate all words except for some cmavo compounds and stress is normally not marked.)&lt;br /&gt;
### Next, let&#039;s find the end of the first brivla in the piece:&lt;br /&gt;
#### Find the first consonant cluster (CC or CyC) and then the first stress after it (the brivla is expected to end after the syllable following the stress, ignoring &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; syllables). If the stress is on a diphthong, treat the entire diphthong as stressed (So that &amp;quot;find the next vowel&amp;quot; will not get just the second half of the diphthong).&lt;br /&gt;
#### If there is no vowel in the piece after the stress, it can&#039;t be a penultimate stress, so the piece is in error (unresolvable). This is also true if &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is the only vowel after the stress (e.g. */stAsy/ is not a valid breath-group).&lt;br /&gt;
#### If the NEXT vowel following the stress (skipping over &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;&#039;s ) is immediately followed by &amp;quot;&#039;V&amp;quot; (as in /mlAtyci&#039;a/), then the syllable following the stress cannot be the last syllable of a word (since the &#039;V cannot begin the next word). Ordinarily we would count this as an error, but let&#039;s instead assume that this was a secondary stress and ignore the fact that there is some stress on it. Go find the next stress to use as THE penultimate stress for this brivla (e.g. in /mlAtyci&#039;abrIjuti/, assume the penultimate stress is &amp;quot;I&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;A&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
#### Having eliminated all the potential problems with finding the end, let&#039;s cut the piece after the end of the brivla:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Find the first vowel (not counting &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;) after the stress. If it is part of a diphthong, break after the diphthong; otherwise, break after the vowel itself.&lt;br /&gt;
### Now let&#039;s find the beginning of the brivla in the front part of the piece we just broke off:&lt;br /&gt;
#### First, break off as many obvious cmavo pieces off the front as we can:&lt;br /&gt;
##### If there is no consonant cluster (CC or CyC) in the first 5 letters (ignoring apostrophes in the count), then, if the piece starts with a vowel, break off before the first consonant (e.g. /alekArce/ becomes /a/ = cmavo) + /lekArce/ = unresolved), otherwise break off before the second consonant (e.g. /vilekArce/ becomes /vi/ = cmavo + /lekArce/ = unresolved). The front piece is then resolved as a cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
##### Repeat the above as many times as we can (so, /lekArce/ becomes /le/ = cmavo + /kArce/ = unresolved. Since /kArce/ has a consonant cluster in the first five letters, we can&#039;t go any further).&lt;br /&gt;
##### If the piece we have left starts with a vowel, find the first consonant. If the first consonant is part of a consonant cluster (only CC-form this time), and this consonant cluster is NOT a valid initial cluster, then we can resolve the entire piece as a le&#039;avla (e.g. /antipAsto/); otherwise (if the first consonant is NOT part of a consonant cluster, or the consonant cluster IS a valid initial cluster), break off before the first consonant as a cmavo (e.g. /a&#039;ofArlu/ becomes /a&#039;o/ = cmavo + /fArlu/ = unresolved; or, /aismAcu/ becomes /ai/ = cmavo + /smAcu/ = unresolved).&lt;br /&gt;
#### What&#039;s left begins with a consonant and has a consonant cluster (CC or CyC) in the first 5 letters. The whole thing may be a brivla, or there may be (at most) one consonant-initial cmavo in front. Here are the possibilities for the start of the piece, and their resolutions:&lt;br /&gt;
##### CC... :&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Resolve whole thing as a brivla (a gismu, lujvo, or le&#039;avla).&lt;br /&gt;
##### CyC... :&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Invalid form. Unresolvable.&lt;br /&gt;
##### CVVCC... :&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Note: stressing a cmavo on the final syllable before a brivla is not allowed.)&lt;br /&gt;
###### If there is no stress on the VV and the CC is a valid initial cluster, then break off the CVV, and resolve it as a cmavo; the remaining piece can then be resolved as a brivla (see &amp;quot;CC....&amp;quot;, above). For example, /leiprEnu/ becomes /lei/ = cmavo + /prEnu/ = brivla.&lt;br /&gt;
###### Otherwise (i.e. there IS a stress on the VV, or the first consonant cluster is not a valid initial cluster), resolve the whole thing as a brivla (e.g. /cAItro/ = brivla)&lt;br /&gt;
##### CV&#039;VCC... :&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Note: stressing a cmavo on the final syllable before a brivla is not allowed.)&lt;br /&gt;
###### If there is no stress on the final vowel of the V&#039;V) and the CC is a valid initial cluster, then break off the CV&#039;V, and resolve it as a cmavo; the remaining piece can then be resolved as a brivla (see &amp;quot;CC....&amp;quot;, above). For example, /so&#039;iprEnu/ becomes /so&#039;i/ = cmavo + /prEnu/ = brivla.&lt;br /&gt;
###### Otherwise (i.e. there is a stress on the final vowel of the V&#039;V, or the first consonant cluster is not a valid initial cluster), resolve the whole thing as a brivla (e.g. /cA&#039;Itro/ = brivla)&lt;br /&gt;
##### CVCC... (This is the hard one. Is the front CV a separate word?):&lt;br /&gt;
###### If the whole piece is CVCCV, then the whole thing resolves as a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
###### If the CC is not a valid initial cluster, then the whole piece can be resolved as a brivla (gismu, lujvo, or le&#039;avla). For example, /selfArlu/.&lt;br /&gt;
###### If there is a &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;, we need to look at the sub-piece up to the first &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
####### If the sub-piece consists entirely of CVC&#039;s repeating (at least 2 needed: e.g. /cacric/), and all the CC&#039;s of the sub-piece are valid initial clusters, then resolve the initial CV as a cmavo, and the rest of the whole piece is a brivla (a lujvo or le&#039;avla).&lt;br /&gt;
####### Otherwise, if the sub-piece can be broken down into a valid lujvo &amp;quot;front&amp;quot; in front and any number (including zero) of valid lujvo &amp;quot;middles&amp;quot; thereafter, resolve the whole piece as a brivla.&lt;br /&gt;
######## Valid fronts (we&#039;ve eliminated all but those starting with CV): CVC CVCC &lt;br /&gt;
######## Valid middles: CVV CV&#039;V CVC CCV CCVC CVCC&lt;br /&gt;
####### Otherwise, the front CV should be resolved as a cmavo, and the remaining piece is resolved as a brivla (a lujvo or le&#039;avla)&lt;br /&gt;
###### If there is no &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
####### If the piece consists of CVC&#039;s repeating (at least 2 needed) up to a final CV (e.g. /cacricfu/), and all the CC&#039;s of the sub-piece are valid initial clusters, then resolve the initial CV as a cmavo, and the rest of the piece is a brivla (a lujvo).&lt;br /&gt;
####### Otherwise, if the piece can be broken down into a valid lujvo &amp;quot;front&amp;quot; in front and any number (including zero) of valid lujvo &amp;quot;middles&amp;quot; followed by a valid lujvo &amp;quot;end&amp;quot;, then resolve the whole piece as a brivla (a lujvo).&lt;br /&gt;
######## Valid fronts (we&#039;ve eliminated all but those starting with CV): CVC CVCC&lt;br /&gt;
######## Valid middles: CVV CV&#039;V CVC CCV CCVC CVCC c&amp;gt; Valid ends: CVV CV&#039;V CCV CCVCV CVCCV &lt;br /&gt;
####### Otherwise, the front CV should be resolved as a cmavo, and the remaining piece is resolved as a brivla (a le&#039;avla). &lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (cont.) == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s time for our feature texts of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The real test of an artificial language is how well it can convey ideas from a variety of cultures and languages. This issue, we present tales translated directly from two languages that few Lojbanists know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first several texts are 6 of the moralistic tales of the classical Greek fabulist Aesop, translated from the Ancient Greek by Nick Nicholas. The first thing you will undoubtedly note is how brief the stories are, as originally written. This makes each story a pleasant little chunk of Lojban to translate, and since you will likely find the stories at least a little familiar, you should be able to work through the occasionally difficult result of Nick&#039;s efforts at matching the Greek syntax and style.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will need a complete cmavo list, including the changes reported in JL14 and JL15, to completely succeed with these texts, though most of the text will be understandable without all of the updates handy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s Aesop: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo fetcinfo .e lo lorxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo fetcinfo noi se ckasu lo lorxu lenu ra roroi se jbena lo pamei cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu go&#039;i lo pamei noi ku&#039;i cinfo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u loni xamgu cu .ei se merli fi lo klani na.e leni srana loka vrude&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo resprtestudine .e lo cicractu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo resprtestudine kuce lo cicractu leni sutra cu dabysnu .isemu&#039;ibo le go&#039;i noi tugni jdice tu&#039;a le detri .eji&#039;a le stuzi cu ba sepli bajra simjvi .i le zu&#039;u cicractu noi ki&#039;u leke&#039;a rarna ka sutra cu na&#039;eke se mukti jundi lenu bajra ku&#039;o ca&#039;o lenu vreta te&#039;e le dargu cu sipna .i le zu&#039;unai resprtestudine. noi sanji leke&#039;a ka masno na sisti lenu bajra .ije seki&#039;ubo le go&#039;i noi bajra zo&#039;a le cicractu noi sipna cu mo&#039;u klama le co&#039;e pe lenu cnemu fi lenu jinga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o tu&#039;a le selsku cu xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u le rarna se ckaji poi se na&#039;eke se mukti jundi ku&#039;o lenu troci cu so&#039;eroi se tervlimau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo lorxu .e lo vanjba&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo lorxu noi xagji ku&#039;o ca lenu viska loi vanjba gunma noi dandu lo tricu cu djica lenu cpacu ra gi&#039;eku&#039;i naka&#039;e cpacu .i le go&#039;i ca lenu cliva cu cusku fi vo&#039;a fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu lei jbari cu slari li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o si&#039;a so&#039;i prenu poi naka&#039;e xagmaugau lei cuntu ki&#039;u loka ruble cu pantypai le tcini &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo danlrkankre .e lo mamta be ri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ko na na&#039;emo&#039;ica&#039;u cadzu seisa&#039;a lo danlrkankre le mamta cu se tavla .iji&#039;a le cilmo rokci leko xadni mlana na te mosra li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ke&#039;unai le danlrkankre cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi mamta ko noi ca ctuca cu mo&#039;ica&#039;u cadzu .ija&#039;ebo mi fau lenu viska do cu smizu&#039;e li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u lei pajni cusku cu .eiro&#039;a vrude tarti je cadzu sa&#039;enai cei bu&#039;a .iba&#039;ojenaipubo .ei ri cu ctuca fo lenu bu&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo cinkrkikada .e loi manti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ze&#039;aca loi dunra lei maxri noi se prucimri&#039;a ku&#039;o loi manti goi ko&#039;a cu se sudgau .ike&#039;unai lo cinkrkikada. goi ko&#039;u noi xagji cu cpedu loi cidja ko&#039;a .i lei manti cu crusku fi ko&#039;u fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ki&#039;u ma? ca le crisa do si&#039;anai na jmaji loi cidja li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ko&#039;u bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi pu gunka nagi&#039;eku&#039;i zgike sanga li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ko&#039;a noi ca cmila cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu do sanga ze&#039;aca le crisa .ije .uunai ko ca le dunra cu dansu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o tu&#039;a le lisri cu xelctu fi ledu&#039;u xamgu fa lenu gunka jundi roda kei fi lenu badri najenai selckape &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo cipnrkorvo .e lo lorxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo cipnrkorvo noi ba&#039;o kavbu lo rectu cu ca&#039;o zutse lo tricu .i lo lorxu noi viska ra gi&#039;e djica lenu cpacu le rectu cu sanli gi&#039;e zanru skicu le cipnrkorvo. ri lo dratra bo selxadni joi melbi gi&#039;eji&#039;a bacru lu&#039;e ledu&#039;u ge ra nu&#039;o turni .ei lei cipni gi le da&#039;i nu ra cu se voksa lo xamgu cu nibli lenu pu&#039;i turni .i le cipnrkorvo noi djica lenu jarco fi le lorxu fe lenu pu&#039;i se voksa lo xamgu cu renro le rectu gi&#039;e cladu krixa .i le lorxu cu bajrykla gi&#039;e bacru ba&#039;o lenu kavbu le rectu kei &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi cipnrkorvo noda fau le da&#039;i nu do se menli lo xamgu cu fanta lenu do turni roda li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o le prenu poi bebna ku&#039;o le se cusku cu pilno se xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next piece is a little tougher, since the story is unfamiliar to most readers, as is the Chinese culture from which the story comes. The text is John Cowan&#039;s translation of a short tale from Hakka Chinese.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hakka is a rural dialect spoken in inland Southeast China. As shown in the translation section, Hakka Chinese has a different tonal structure, and the text has many roots quite unlike that of standard Mandarin Chinese. Indeed, John had to go to great lengths to find suitable informants who could explain subtle points of Hakka semantics, since John, of course, doesn&#039;t know Hakka Chinese either.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John deserves a lot of credit, indeed! I like his philosophy that good translation, especially of cultural ideas, requires translation from the original. Thus, he did not use an available colloquial English translation of the story, choosing instead to work from the English and Mandarin glosses found below in the translation section (asking lots of questions of knowledgeable informants, when appropriate).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is John&#039;s text. Enjoy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o di&#039;e se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le bruna cu kenkakpa sepi&#039;o lo cnadakfu .ije le mamta cu pensi selraktu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .asun. jo&#039;u la .aniis. bruna remei .i la .asun. jbena le purci mamta .ije la .aniis. jbena le cabna mamta .i le cabna mamta goi ko&#039;a cu to&#039;e lanxe tarti .i ci&#039;o ko&#039;a le jbebersa be ko&#039;a cu dirba .i ro bu&#039;a zo&#039;u: la .aniis. cu djica lenu bu&#039;a .inaja bu&#039;a .i la .asun. te cinmo to&#039;ebo la&#039;edi&#039;u .i la .asun. goi ko&#039;e citka nalculno gi&#039;e dasni nalglare .iji&#039;a so&#039;iroi darxi ko&#039;e .i le cabna mamta ta&#039;e plafinti lenu catra la .asun. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i paroikiku le cabna mamta cu cuxna re so&#039;etsi .i pa so&#039;etsi cu nalseljukpa .ije pa so&#039;etsi cu seljukpa .i dunda le seljukpa la .asun. .ije dunda le nalseljukpa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;la .aniis. .i cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu re ko cu mo&#039;ine&#039;i klama le kevna poi betfu le barda tricu .i ko pilno loi cilmo dertu lo tagji gacri be le so&#039;etsi .i ko poi leke&#039;a so&#039;etsi cu pamoi derjbe cu pamoi zdaxru li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ba lenu dzukla fo pimu le dargu kei la .aniis. zgana lenu le le bruna ku so&#039;etsi noi badmau cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.ibazibo fo le bruna cu canja .i bazuku le la .asun. so&#039;etsi cu pamoi derjbe .i ko&#039;e morji le se cusku be le mamta .isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;e pamoi zdaxru .i le mamta cu zgana lenu le jbebersa be ko&#039;a na xruti .i na kurji lejei ko&#039;a jmive .i sutra sutra bajrykla mu&#039;i lenu facki lejei la .asun. lidne da &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo cmana cevni cu makfa tisna le tricu kevna loi dertu .i le cabna mamta ba cusku fi la asun. fe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ko cuxna lo cnadakfu gi&#039;e klama fa&#039;ertisna le tricu kevna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ca lenu kenkalri noda nenri .i pa cipni goi ko&#039;i cu vofli cliva gi&#039;ecabo klaku cusku zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.xakkas go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8 .xakkas.&amp;gt;&amp;gt; no&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le bruna cu kenkakpa sepi&#039;o lo cnadakfu .ije le mamta cu pensi selraktu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i vofli ze&#039;abaku .i ti&#039;e ca&#039;o ro crisa ko&#039;i rolnicte sanli le tricu forca gi&#039;e cusku zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.xakkas. go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8 .xakkas.&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i cusku pu&#039;o lenu le molko&#039;a cu ciblu vikmi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Translation of lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: mi xatra be la .alis. ciska bau la lojban. .i .e&#039;o ko sidju lenu fanva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I (letter-to-Alice)-write in- language Lojban. (Petition!) You! (Imperative!) assist the- event of translating.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;ve written a letter to Alice in Lojban. Please help me translate it (to English).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ui .oinai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Happiness! Pleasure!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;d be happy to! My pleasure!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu xu? la teris. cu se pluka le cukta poi ri te dunda fi mi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Is it true? Terry is-pleased with the book(s) which he/she was given by me?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Did Terry like the book(s) I gave him/her?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: pamai: ma? te kancu le cukta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Firstly, what-value? is-the- counted-value of the books.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First: How many books are there? [to know whether to translate &amp;quot;cukta&amp;quot; as singular or plural].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: li ci .i ku&#039;i mi na jimpe le mukti be lenu do terpreti .oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Three. However, I not: understand le motive of the event of your asking. (Complaint!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Three. But I don&#039;t understand why you ask such an irrelevant question!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: le&#039;onai mi troci lenu sidju (Defensive!) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I try to assist. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;m only trying to help!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: .o&#039;ocu&#039;i .e&#039;o ko go&#039;i .e&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Mere tolerance!) (Petition!) You! (Imperative!) do-the-previous. (Suggestion!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Grrr! Then DO so, for Pete&#039;s sake! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: ta&#039;onai la teris. cinse ma?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Returning to main point!) Terry exhibits sexuality/sexual- orientation of-what-kind?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;OK. Getting on with it, what gender is Terry? [to determine the gender of the pronoun translating &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: .i&#039;anai se&#039;inai .i ka&#039;u do bilga lenu na terpreti de&#039;u .a&#039;unai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Blame! Other-directed!) (I know culturally!) You are-obliged to the-event-of not: asking the recent utterance. (Repulsion!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Arrgh! You aren&#039;t supposed to ask such disgusting questions! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina: ju&#039;i mamta la sam. cusku lo cinse preti .i&#039;enaicai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Attention, Mother! Sam expressed a sexual question (Strong disapproval!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hey Mom!!! Sam just asked me a dirty question!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Needless to say, Nora was playing around with the problems of machine translation between language, while also trying to show how fluent speakers might use the Lojban attitudinals to very expressively communicate feelings that don&#039;t record too accurately on paper. We hope everyone enjoyed!] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Translation of Aesop ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo fetcinfo .e lo lorxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a lioness and a fox.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo fetcinfo noi se ckasu lo lorxu lenu ra roroi se jbena lo pamei cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu go&#039;i lo pamei noi ku&#039;i cinfo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A lioness, who incidentally is mocked by a fox about the event of giving birth to a singleton, utters &amp;quot;Yes, I did (give birth) to a singleton, which incidentally, however, is a lion&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u loni xamgu cu .ei se merli fi lo klani na.e leni srana loka vrude&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Teaching-method for the fact that the amount of goodness is (Obligation!) measured in units a quantity Not! and (but) in amount of pertaining to qualities of virtue. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lioness and Fox. A Lioness being mocked by a fox on always giving birth to one, said &amp;quot;One, but a lion.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;That the good should not be measured in quantity, but in its relation to virtue. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only difficulty in this last story is the &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; within the quotes, which technically should not refer to text outside the quote (which the lioness couldn&#039;t have &#039;heard&#039; to refer back to). This is poetic license of a type that makes sense, though, since she is responding to ridicule that might indeed have used the presumed relation &amp;quot;gave birth to a singleton&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo resprtestudine .e lo cicractu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a tortoise and a hare (wild-rabbit).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo resprtestudine kuce lo cicractu leni sutra cu dabysnu .isemu&#039;ibo le go&#039;i noi tugni jdice tu&#039;a le detri .eji&#039;a le stuzi cu ba sepli bajra simjvi .i le zu&#039;u cicractu noi ki&#039;u leke&#039;a rarna ka sutra cu na&#039;eke se mukti jundi lenu bajra ku&#039;o ca&#039;o lenu vreta te&#039;e le dargu cu sipna .i le zu&#039;unai resprtestudine. noi sanji leke&#039;a ka masno na sisti lenu bajra .ije seki&#039;ubo le go&#039;i noi bajra zo&#039;a le cicractu noi sipna cu mo&#039;u klama le co&#039;e pe lenu cnemu fi lenu jinga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A tortoise, a hare, about the amount of swiftness, do combatively-discuss. Motivationally therefore they, who incidentally agreeingly decide (something about) the date and- also the site, do afterwards separately-runningly mutually- compete. The, on-the-one-hand, hare, who incidentally justified by his natural quality of swiftness other-than motivatedly attends-to the event of running, during the reclining alongside the road, sleeps. The, on-the-other- hand, tortoise, who incidentally is conscious of his quality of slowness, not: ceases the event of running. And justifiably therefore he (the tortoise), who incidentally runs past the hare, who incidentally sleeps, completitively comes to the [thing] pertaining-to the event of rewarding for the event of winning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o tu&#039;a le selsku cu xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u le rarna se ckaji poi se na&#039;eke se mukti jundi ku&#039;o lenu troci cu so&#039;eroi se tervlimau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The expression being something (told) is a teaching method for the fact that the natural characteristics which are other- than motivatedly attended-to, by the event of trying, is usually as-conditions-of-having-power,-is- exceeded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tortoise and Hare. A tortoise and a hare argued on their speed. So, having agreed on the date and the place, they ran raced apart. The hare, on the one hand, who because of its natural speed did not take pains with its running, having lied down by the road slept. The tortoise, on the other hand, being aware of its slowness, did not stop running. And thus it, running past the sleeping hare, arrived at the trophy of victory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The word shows that natural quality which has not had pains taken over it is often overpowered by effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo lorxu .e lo vanjba&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a fox and a/some grape(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo lorxu noi xagji ku&#039;o ca lenu viska loi vanjba gunma noi dandu lo tricu cu djica lenu cpacu ra gi&#039;eku&#039;i naka&#039;e cpacu .i le go&#039;i ca lenu cliva cu cusku fi vo&#039;a fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu lei jbari cu slari li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A fox, who incidentally hungers, simultaneous with the event of seeing of the mass of Grape Masses, which incidentally hang from a/some tree(s), desires the event of getting of-them (the Masses and-but not: is-innately- capable-of getting. He (the fox), simultaneously with the event of leaving, expresses to him(self) &amp;quot;The mass of berries are sour&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o si&#039;a so&#039;i prenu poi naka&#039;e xagmaugau lei cuntu ki&#039;u loka ruble cu pantypai le tcini&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Similarly, many persons who not: are-innately-capable of good-more- bringing- about (improving) affairs justified by qualities of weakness, protestingly-judge (blame) the situation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fox and grape bunch. A hungry fox, upon seeing bunches of grapes hanging from some trellis, wished to obtain them and could not. Removing itself it said to itself: They are sour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus too some people unable to improve things because of weakness blame the times. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo danlrkankre .e lo mamta be ri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a crab and a mother-of-it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ko na na&#039;emo&#039;ica&#039;u cadzu seisa&#039;a lo danlrkankre le mamta cu se tavla .iji&#039;a le cilmo rokci leko xadni mlana na te mosra li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ke&#039;unai le danlrkankre cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi mamta ko noi ca ctuca cu mo&#039;ica&#039;u cadzu .ija&#039;ebo mi fau lenu viska do cu smizu&#039;e li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;You! (Imperative!) not: other- than-forward-movingly walk [A crab, by the mother is talked-to]. Also, the moist rock, by Your! (Imperative!) body-side not: is rubbed&amp;quot; Continuing, the crab utters &amp;quot;O Mother!, You! (Imperative!), who incidentally now teach forward-movingly walk. Resultingly, I on-the-event-of the event of seeing you, similarly- act-with-purpose.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o xe ctuca fi ledu&#039;u lei pajni cusku cu .eiro&#039;a vrude tarti je cadzu sa&#039;enai cei bu&#039;a .iba&#039;ojenaipubo .ei ri cu ctuca fo lenu bu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Teaching method for the fact that the-mass-of judgemental- expressors (critics) do (Obligation-social!) virtuously behave and walk (loosely- speaking), which is equivalent to some-relation1. Aftermathly-and- not-previously (Obligation!) they (the mass of judges teach about the event of it-relation1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Crab and Mother. Not to walk crooked, a crab was told by its mother, nor to rub its sides on the wet stone. And it said: &amp;quot;Mother, you who teach walk straight, and watching you I will imitate.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That it is meet for the critical to live and walk straight, and then to teach the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo cinkrkikada .e loi manti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a cicada and of- the-mass-of Ants.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ze&#039;aca loi dunra lei maxri noi se prucimri&#039;a ku&#039;o loi manti goi ko&#039;a cu se sudgau .ike&#039;unai lo cinkrkikada. goi ko&#039;u noi xagji cu cpedu loi cidja ko&#039;a .i lei manti cu crusku fi ko&#039;u fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ki&#039;u ma? ca le crisa do si&#039;anai na jmaji loi cidja li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ko&#039;u bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi pu gunka nagi&#039;eku&#039;i zgike sanga li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ko&#039;a noi ca cmila cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu do sanga ze&#039;aca le crisa .ije .uunai ko ca le dunra cu dansu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;For-a-medium-time-interval- during Winters, the mass of wheat, which incidentally was previously- moistened, by some-of-the-mass-of Ants (them1) is dryly-brought- about. Continuing, a cicada (it5), who incidentally hungers, requests of-the-mass-of Food of them1. This-mass-of ants ut- teringly-expresses to it5 &amp;quot;Justified by what? simultaneous with the summer you dissimilarly not: gather of the mass of Food?&amp;quot; It5 utters &amp;quot;I worked Not! and-but musically-sang.&amp;quot; They1, who incidentally simultaneously with this (statement) laugh, utter &amp;quot;You sing for-a-medium-time-interval- during the summer. And (Cruelty!) You! (Imperative!), simultaneous with the winter, dance.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o tu&#039;a le lisri cu xelctu fi ledu&#039;u xamgu fa lenu gunka jundi roda kei fi lenu badri najenai selckape&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The expression being something (told) is a teaching method for the fact that [it] is-good, that the event of workingly attending to all-things, by standard-of- goodness the event of being-sad Not! and not: being-endangered. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cicada and Ants. At the time of winter the ants dried the moistened grain. And a cicada hungering asked them for food. And the ants said to it: &amp;quot;For what reason in the summer did you not gather food as well?&amp;quot; And it said &amp;quot;I wasn&#039;t working, but I sang musically.&amp;quot; And they having laughed said &amp;quot;But if you at the time of the summer sang [The Greek actually says &amp;quot;played the flute&amp;quot;], dance in the winter.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The myth shows that it is not meet that one should neglect any thing, so that s/he may not be saddened and imperiled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;me lo cipnrkorvo .e lo lorxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Pertaining to a crow and a fox.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo cipnrkorvo noi ba&#039;o kavbu lo rectu cu ca&#039;o zutse lo tricu .i lo lorxu noi viska ra gi&#039;e djica lenu cpacu le rectu cu sanli gi&#039;e zanru skicu le cipnrkorvo. ri lo dratra bo selxadni joi melbi gi&#039;eji&#039;a bacru lu&#039;e ledu&#039;u ge ra nu&#039;o turni .ei lei cipni gi le da&#039;i nu ra cu se voksa lo xamgu cu nibli lenu pu&#039;i turni .i le cipnrkorvo noi djica lenu jarco fi le lorxu fe lenu pu&#039;i se voksa lo xamgu cu renro le rectu gi&#039;e cladu krixa .i le lorxu cu bajrykla gi&#039;e bacru ba&#039;o lenu kavbu le rectu kei &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi cipnrkorvo noda fau le da&#039;i nu do se menli lo xamgu cu fanta lenu do turni roda li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A crow, who incidentally in-the- aftermath-of capturing some meat, is-in-the-middle of sitting-on a tree. A fox, who incidentally sees it (vague - probably the meat, but possibly the crow) and desires the event of getting the meat, stands and approving describes the crow to it (the crow) as a &amp;lt;correct-form be-bodied mixed-with beautiful&amp;gt; thing and- also utters the-symbol-for the fact that both it (the crow) is- capable-of-but-hasn&#039;t governed (Obligation!) the mass of birds, and the (Supposing-that!) event of it (the crow) was be-voiced by the good-thing logically-necessarily- entails the event of actually governing. The crow, who incidentally desires the event of showing to the fox of the event of actually being be-voiced by the good-thing, throws the meat and loudly cries-out. The fox runningly-goes-to and utters in- the-aftermath-of capturing the meat &amp;quot;O Crow!, Nothing, in-the- event-of the (Supposing!) event of you are be-minded by the good- thing, prevents the event of you governing everything.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le prenu poi bebna ku&#039;o le se cusku cu pilno se xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;For the person who is foolish, the expression is usingly-being- good. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Crow and Fox. A crow having snatched some meat sat on some tree. And a fox seeing it and wishing to obtain the meat, having stood praised it as well- proportioned and beautiful, also saying that it should indeed be king of the birds, and that this would have happened, if he had a voice. And it wishing to show it that it also had a voice, having thrown off the meat shouted loudly. And it having run to it and having snatched the meat said: &amp;quot;O Crow, and if you had brains too, nothing would be lacking for you to be king of everything.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The word is opportune for a foolish man. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Hakka Translation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Title: &amp;quot;Brother Bored With A Chisel, Mother Worried In Vain&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Source: Yuan Jiahua et al., Hanyu fangyan gaiyao [An Outline of the Chinese Dialects], quoted in S. Robert Ramsey, The Languages of China. [This latter is a much recommended non-technical book for those interested in learning about Chinese.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Translation by: John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Format:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hakka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Standard Chinese (Mandarin - Pinyin Romanization)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;English-1&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;English-2. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Hakka is transcribed as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* initials are as in Pinyin;&lt;br /&gt;
* rhyme vowels are as in IPA, except that &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is schwa;&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;un&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;u&amp;quot;+&amp;quot;n&amp;quot;, not equivalent to &amp;quot;uen&amp;quot;.Hakka tones 7 (high) and 8 (low) are associated with syllables ending in &amp;quot;-p&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-t&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;-k&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Standard Chinese version (in Pinyin) is a cross between a literal translation and a list of etymological correspondences. A dash (---) represents a Hakka morpheme for which no Standard equivalent could be found.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English-1 is a list of English words roughly corresponding to the Hakka morphemes, not a translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English-2 is a literal translation of the Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wish to gratefully acknowledge the invaluable assistance of the following: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojbab (Lojban reviewer), Nora LeChevalier (Lojban reviewer), Jim Carter and Alice (Wang2 Yi3) Carter (Mandarin informants), Hua T. Lin (Hakka informant).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, the responsibility for any errors or infelicities remaining is solely mine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o di&#039;e se tcita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[Totally new topic] The following is labelled &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le bruna cu kenkakpa sepi&#039;o lo cnadakfu .ije le mamta cu pensi selraktu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Go1 zy3 cok8 cok8, oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ge1 zi3 zao2 zao2, mu3 zi3 bai2 -- -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;brother chisel bore mother waste thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The brother hole-digs with-tool a spade-knife. And the mother is thinkingly-betroubled.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Start of utterance-block &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la .asun. jo&#039;u la .aniis. bruna remei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 sun4 tung2 a1 nyi4 he4 liong3 hiung1 ti4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 shun4 tong2 a1 yi4 xi4 liang3 xiong1 di4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun with Anyi be two brothers.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun in-common-with Anyi are-a brotherly twosome. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la .asun. jbena le purci mamta .ije la .aniis. jbena le cabna mamta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 sun4 he4 cien2 oi1 giung1 ge4, a1 nyi4 he4 heu4 oi1 giung1 ge4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 shun4 xi4 qian2 mu3 sung4 de, a1 yi4 xi4 hou4 mu3 sung4 de.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun be before-mother bear &#039;s Anyi be stepmother bear &#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun is-born-to the past mother.  And Anyi is-born-to the present mother. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cabna mamta goi ko&#039;a cu to&#039;e lanxe tarti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Heu4 oi1 zo4 nyin2 m2 gung1 tao4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hou4 mu3 zuo4 ren2 bu4 gong1 dao4, stepmother behavior not just&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The present mother (she1) opposite-of in-equilibrium-ly behaves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ci&#039;o ko&#039;a le jbebersa be ko&#039;a cu dirba&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ci1 ga1 ge4 cin1 sen1 zy3 ciu4 kon4 zo4 bao3 bi4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zi4 jia1 de qin1 sheng1 zi3 jiu4 kan4 zuo4 bao3 bei4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;oneself &#039;s one&#039;s own son then regard-as treasure&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;According-to her1, the birth-son of her1 is-dear.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro bu&#039;a zo&#039;u: la .aniis. cu djica lenu bu&#039;a .inaja bu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a1 nyi4 oi4 mak7 ge4 ciu4 mak7 ge4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a1 yi4 ai4 --- de jiu4 --- de,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Anyi want something then something&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;For-all &amp;lt;predicate&amp;gt; [If] Anyi desires the event-of &amp;lt;the predicate&amp;gt; then &amp;lt;the predicate&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la .asun. te cinmo to&#039;ebo la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dui4 a1 sun4 sim1 gon1 ciu4 m2 he4 an3 yong4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dui4 a1 shun4 xin1 gan1 jiu4 bu4 xi4 yi1 yang4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;toward Asun feelings then not be this-way&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;About Asun is-felt the-opposite-of the-referent-of-the-previous- sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la .asun. goi ko&#039;e citka nalculno gi&#039;e dasni nalglare .iji&#039;a so&#039;iroi darxi ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 sun4 syt8 m2 bao3, cok7 m2 sao1 han2 sy2 song2 da3 gi2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A1 shun4 shi2 bu4 bao3, zhao2 bu4 --- hai2 shi2 chang2 da3 ta4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun eat not full wear not warm also often hit him&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Asun (he2) is-eater-ly non-full and is-wearerly non-warm. Also often hits him2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cabna mamta ta&#039;e plafinti lenu catra la .asun.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Heu4 oi1 cung3 siong3 hoi4 si3 a1 sun4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hou4 mu3 zong2 xiang3 hai4 si3 a1 shun4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;stepmother always think murder Asun&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The present mother habitually plan-creates the event-of killing of-Asun. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i paroikiku le cabna mamta cu cuxna re so&#039;etsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Yu1 it7 bai3, heu4 oi1 na1 liong3 zak8 vong2 teu4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You3 yi1 ze4, hou4 mu3 na1 liang3 zhi1 huang2 dou4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;exist one time stepmother take two seed soybeans&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;One time [sticky] the present mother chooses two soya-seeds. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pa so&#039;etsi cu nalseljukpa .ije pa so&#039;etsi cu seljukpa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it7 zak8 sang1 ge4, it7 zak8 suk8 ge4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;yi1 ge sheng1 de, yi1 ge shu2 de,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;one seed raw &#039;s one seed cooked &#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;One soya-seed is-non-cooked. And one soya-seed is-cooked.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i dunda le seljukpa la .asun. .ije dunda le nalseljukpa la .aniis.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;suk8 ge4 bun1 a1 sun4, sang1 ge4 bun1 a1 nyi4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;shu2 de fen1 a1 shun4, sheng1 de fen1 a1 yi4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cooked &#039;s give Asun raw &#039;s give Anyi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Gives the cooked to-Asun. Gives the non-cooked to-Anyi. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu re ko cu mo&#039;ine&#039;i klama le kevna poi betfu le barda tricu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;vong3 gi2 liong3 ge4 nyin2 do4 tai4 su4 lung1 du3 li3 ki4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ciao4 ta4 liang3 de ren2 dao4 da4 shu4 long2 du3 li3 qu4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;tell them two thing person to big tree hole belly inside go&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Expresses &amp;quot;Two of You! [imperative] inwardly go-to the cavity that bellies the big tree. .i ko pilno loi cilmo dertu lo tagji gacri be le so&#039;etsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vong2 teu4 yung4 nai2 tun2 gin3 ki4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;huang2 dou4 yong4 ni2 --- jin3 qu4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;soybean use mud cover tight go&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You! [imperative] use of-a-mass-of Wet dirt as-a snug cover for the soya-seed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko poi leke&#039;a so&#039;etsi cu pamoi derjbe cu pamoi zdaxru li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kon4 man3 nyin2 ge4 sien1 bao4 nga2, ciu4 man3 nyin2 sien1 zon3 vuk7 ha1.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kan4 --- ren2 de xian1 bao4 ya2, jiu4 --- ren2 xian1 zhuan3 wu1 xia4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;see who &#039;s first sprout then who first return home&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You! [imperative] such-that your soya-seed first is-dirt-born, shall firstly home-return.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ba lenu dzukla fo pimu le dargu kei la .aniis. zgana lenu le le bruna ku so&#039;etsi noi badmau cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hang2 do4 ban4 lu4, a1 nyi4 kon4 do3 gia1 go1 ge4 teu4 zy3 go4 tai4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Xing2 dao4 ban4 lu4, a1 yi4 kan4 dao3 ta4 ge1 de dou4 zi3 guo4 da4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;walk to half road Anyi see fall his brother &#039;s bean pass big&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;After the event-of walkingly-going by-route half-of the road, Anyi observes the event-of the brother&#039;s soya-seed, which-in- cidentally-is bigger, falling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ibazibo fo le bruna cu canja&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ciu4 tung2 gia1 go1 gao4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;jiu4 tong2 ta4 ge1 ta4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;then with his brother trade&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Then-shortly-after, with the brother, exchanges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i bazuku le la .asun. so&#039;etsi cu pamoi derjbe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Go4 e2 ho3 giu3, a1 sun4 ge4 teu4 zy3 sien1 bao4 nga2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Guo4 la4 hao3 jiu3, a1 shun4 de dou4 zi3 xian1 bao4 ya2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pass -ed really long Asun &#039;s bean first sprout&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[future] [long time] Asun&#039;s soya- seed is-first from-dirt-born. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e morji le se cusku be le mamta .isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;e pamoi zdaxru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi2 ciu4 zao4 gia1 me1 ge4 fa4 sien1 zon3 vuk7 ha1 ki4 e2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ta4 jiu4 zhao4 ta4 mu3 de hua4 xian1 zhuan3 wu1 xia4 qu4 la4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;he then reflect his mother &#039;s speech first return home go -ed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;He2 remembers the expressed-thing by the mother. Motivated-by- that, he2 firstly-home-returns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le mamta cu zgana lenu le jbebersa be ko&#039;a na xruti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Gia1 me1 kon4 do3 ci1 ga1 ge4 cin1 sen1 zy3 mo2 zon3 loi2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Ta4 mu3 kan4 dao3 zi4 jia1 de qin1 sheng1 zi3 mei2 zhuan3 lai2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;his mother see fall oneself &#039;s one&#039;s own son not return come&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The mother observes the event-of the birth-son of her1 not return. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i na kurji lejei ko&#039;a jmive .i sutra sutra bajrykla mu&#039;i lenu facki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ciu4 miang4 nga1 m2 mai4 e2, giak8 giak8 zeu3 ki4 kon4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;jiu4 ming4 ye bu4 ai4 le, guai4 guai4 zou3 qu4 kan4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;then life even not want -ed quick quick run go see&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Not taking-care-of the truth- value-of her living. Swiftly- swift runningly-goes with-motive the event-of discovering &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lejei la .asun. lidne da&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mang2 di1 zy4 a1 sun4 cut7 loi2 heu4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;--- zhi1 zi4 a1 shun4 chu1 lai2 hou4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;where know from Asun emerge come after&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the truth-value-of Asun preceding someone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo cmana cevni cu makfa tisna le tricu kevna loi dertu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;san1 syn2 tu3 ti4 sy3 e2 fap7, su4 lung1 set7 bet8 e2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;shan1 shen2 tu3 di4 shi3 le fa3, shu4 long2 sai1 diao4 le.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mountain god earth use -ed magic tree hole fill-in away -ed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A mountain god magically stuffed the tree hole with-a-mass-of dirt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cabna mamta ba cusku fi la asun. fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ko cuxna lo cnadakfu gi&#039;e klama fa&#039;ertisna le tricu kevna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Heu4 oi1 ciu4 vong3 a1 sun4 na1 it7 ba3 cok8 zy3 ki4 cok8 kai1 su4 lung1 loi2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hou4 mu3 jiu4 ciao4 a1 shun4 na2 yi1 ba3 zao2 zi3 qu4 zao2 kai1 shu4 long2 lai2,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;stepmother then tell Asun take one-handle chisel go bore open tree hole come&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The present mother [future] expresses to Asun &amp;quot;You [imperative] choose a spade- knife and goingly reverse-stuff the tree hole.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ca lenu kenkalri noda nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;mang2 di1 cok8 kai1 loi2 mak7 ge4 ya1 mo2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;--- zhi1 zao2 kai1 lai2 --- de ye3 mei2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;where know bore open come something even not-exist&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Simultaneous-with the event-of hole-opening, nothing is-within.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pa cipni goi ko&#039;i cu vofli cliva gi&#039;ecabo klaku cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Zong3 yu1 it7 zak7 diao1 zy3 bi1 cut7 loi2, giao4 den3,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Zong3 you3 yi1 zhi1 niao3 zi3 fei1 chu1 lai2, jiao4 zo1,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;assemble exist one head bird fly emerge come call -ing&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;One bird [it3] flyingly leaves and-then weepingly expresses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.xakkas go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8 .xakkas.&amp;gt;&amp;gt; no&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le bruna cu kenkakpa sepi&#039;o lo cnadakfu .ije le mamta cu pensi selraktu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Go1 zy3 cok8 cok8, oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Ge1 zi3 zao2 zao2, mu3 zi3 bai2 - --!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;brother chisel bore mother waste thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the-expression &amp;quot;go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 o1 zy3 pak8 sok8&amp;quot; which- incidentally-is &amp;quot;the brother hole-digs with-tool a spade- knife. And the mother is think- betroubled.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i vofli ze&#039;abaku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;bi1 do4 ban4 tien1 ki4 e2.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fei1 dao4 ban4 tian1 qu4 le.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fly to half day go -ed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A-flyer [for-a-medium interval] [into the future].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ti&#039;e ca&#039;o ro crisa ko&#039;i rolnicte sanli le tricu forca&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Tang1 gong3 mi1 nyian2 ge4 ha4 gi2, gi2 ya4 ya4 a1 diao4 den3 su4 va1 hong4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Ting1 jiang3 mei3 nian2 de xia4 ji4, ta4 ye4 ye4 --- diao4 zo1 shu4 cha4 shang4,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;hear say each year &#039;s summer he night night even drop -ing tree crotch top&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[I hear!] During all summers it3 each-nightly stands-on the tree fork &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e cusku zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.xakkas. go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8 .xakkas.&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;giao4 den3, &amp;quot;Go1 zy3 cok8 cok8, oi1 zy3 pak8 sok8!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;jiao4 zo1, &amp;quot;Ge1 zi3 zao2 zao2, mu3 zi3 bai2 ---!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;call -ing brother chisel bore mother waste thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and expresses &amp;quot;go1 zy3 cok8 cok8 o1 zy3 pak8 sok8&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cusku pu&#039;o lenu le molko&#039;a cu ciblu vikmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;oi4 giao4 dao4 zoi4 gok7 teu2 cut7 hiat8 zang4 m2 giao4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ai4 jiao4 dao4 zui3 jiao3 tou2 chu1 xue3 zai4 bu4 jiao4.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;want call until mouth corner bleed finally not call&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Expresses up-until the event-of the mouth-corner blood ex- creting. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;End-of-utterance-block. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Next Issue ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue (for those who have sent in your subscription forms and money at least), includes a lengthy discussion of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis and related aspects of linguistic research from the point of view of several linguists. We also plan to publish John Cowan&#039;s paper on Lojban expression of mathematical expressions (MEX), a story translated from Bulgarian by Ivan Derzhanski, as well as more of Nick Nicholas&#039;s extensive work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sample Page from Forthcoming Proto-Dictionary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wanted to give the community some feeling that we actually are getting somewhere on the long-promised books. The best way I know to do this is to show you. The following page is the first section of the gismu list, starting with the letter &#039;B&#039; as it has been expanded and formatted for the dictionary. While this is still a draft, it should give a good idea of our intentions. We of course would like comments on whether the print size is adequate, as well as the explanations (there is some limit to what we can do to improve the latter without delaying publication, but I still would like to know what people think).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The larger margins on the back page reflect the actual dimensions of the pages of the book (standard 5.5&amp;quot; x 8&amp;quot; trade paperback).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  bacru                                   92                                  berti&lt;br /&gt;
                              B            bakri&lt;br /&gt;
                                            chalk -   x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                     bacru                  quantity       of/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      utter -   x1 utters   contains/is made of&lt;br /&gt;
                      verbally/says/-       chalk  from  source&lt;br /&gt;
                      phonates   (vocally   x2 in form x3&lt;br /&gt;
                      makes  sound)   x2;  baktu&lt;br /&gt;
                      (cf. krixa, cusku);   bucket -   x1  is a&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: cru            bucket/pail/can/-&lt;br /&gt;
                     badna                  deep, solid,  wide-&lt;br /&gt;
                      banana -   x1  is a   topped container of&lt;br /&gt;
                      banana/plantain       contents  x2,  made&lt;br /&gt;
                      (fruit)          of   of   material   x3;&lt;br /&gt;
                      species/breed x2      (cf. botpi,  patxu,&lt;br /&gt;
                     badri                  tansi)&lt;br /&gt;
                      sad -   x1 is sad/-  balji&lt;br /&gt;
                      depressed/dejected    bulb -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      about  x2;   rafsi:   bulb (body-part) of&lt;br /&gt;
                      dri                   plant/species   x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                     bajra                  (metaphor: rounded,&lt;br /&gt;
                      run -   x1  runs on   bulgy; (cf. punli);&lt;br /&gt;
                      surface  x2   using   rafsi:         baj;&lt;br /&gt;
                      limbs x3  with gait   cognate: &#039;bulge&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                      x4                   balni&lt;br /&gt;
                     bakfu                  balcony -   x1 is a&lt;br /&gt;
                      bundle -   x1  is a   balcony/overhang/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bundle/package        ledge/shelf      of&lt;br /&gt;
                      (shape/form)   con-   building/structure&lt;br /&gt;
                      taining   x2,    of   x2; (cf. kajna)&lt;br /&gt;
                      surrounding          balre&lt;br /&gt;
                      material        x3;   blade -   x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;pack&#039;       blade   of   tool/-&lt;br /&gt;
                     bakni                  weapon   x2;   (cf.&lt;br /&gt;
                      bovine -   x1  is a   dakfu); rafsi: ba&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
                      cow/cattle/kine/-    balvi&lt;br /&gt;
                      ox/(bull)/(steer)     future -   x1 is in&lt;br /&gt;
                      (beef-producer/-      the future of/later&lt;br /&gt;
                      bovine)          of   than/after  x2   in&lt;br /&gt;
                      species/breed   x2;   time  (only);  (cf.&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:         bak;   lidne); rafsi:  bav&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;ox&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  bacru                                   93                                  berti&lt;br /&gt;
                      ba&#039;i;      cognate:  banxa&lt;br /&gt;
                      &#039;later&#039;               bank -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                     bancu                  bank at location x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      beyond   -       x1   owned  by   x3  for&lt;br /&gt;
                      exceeds/is   beyond   banking function(s)&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2 in  property  x3   x4 (event);  rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      (ka);  (cf.  dukse,   bax&lt;br /&gt;
                      ragve)               banzu&lt;br /&gt;
                     bandu                  suffice   -      x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      defend   -       x1   suffices/is&lt;br /&gt;
                      (event)   defends/-   enough/sufficient&lt;br /&gt;
                      protects         x2   for   purpose    x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      (object/state) from   under    conditions&lt;br /&gt;
                      threat/peril/-        x3;   (cf.   dukse,&lt;br /&gt;
                      potential        x3   claxu,      nitcu);&lt;br /&gt;
                      (event);  x1  wards   rafsi: baz&lt;br /&gt;
                      x3; rafsi: ba&#039;u      bapli&lt;br /&gt;
                     banfi                  force -   x1 (force&lt;br /&gt;
                      amphibian -   x1 is   -   ka)    forces/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      an   amphibian   of   compels event x2 to&lt;br /&gt;
                      species/breed x2      occur;    x1    de-&lt;br /&gt;
                     bangu                  termines   property&lt;br /&gt;
                      language -   x1  is   x2   to   manifest;&lt;br /&gt;
                      a/the    language/-   (cf. jitro,  rinka,&lt;br /&gt;
                      dialect          of   krinu,      zukte);&lt;br /&gt;
                      people(s)       x2;   rafsi:   bap   bai;&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: ban bau        cognate: &#039;compel&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                     banli                 barda&lt;br /&gt;
                      great  -     x1  is   big -   x1 is big/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      great/grand      in   large in property/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      property x2 (ka) by   dimension(s)     x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      standard  x3;  (cf.   (ka)  as   compared&lt;br /&gt;
                      barda,  nobli,   se   with  standard/norm&lt;br /&gt;
                      sinma,      pluja);   x3;  (cf.   banli);&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:  bal;   cog-   rafsi:  bad;   cog-&lt;br /&gt;
                      nate: &#039;grand&#039;         nate: &#039;large&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                     banro                 bargu&lt;br /&gt;
                      grow -   x1 grows/-   arch -  x1 arches/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      expands   into   x2   curves   over    x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      from    x3;    (cf.   (made of x3); x1 is&lt;br /&gt;
                      farvi); rafsi: bar    an arch over/around&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  bacru                                   94                                  berti&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2 of  material x3;   pose  x3,  made  of&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bag            material x4&lt;br /&gt;
                     barja                 bavmi&lt;br /&gt;
                      bar  -    x1  is  a   barley -   x1  is a&lt;br /&gt;
                      tavern/bar/pub   at   quantity of  barley&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2  serving  x3  to   (grain)          of&lt;br /&gt;
                      audience/patrons      species/strain x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      x4; (cf. gusta)      baxso&lt;br /&gt;
                     barna                  Malay-Indonesian  -&lt;br /&gt;
                      mark -    x1(s)  is   x1 reflects  Malay-&lt;br /&gt;
                      a/are mark/marks on   Indonesian   common&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2 of  material x3;   language/culture in&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: ba&#039;a           aspect   x2;   (cf.&lt;br /&gt;
                     bartu                  meljo,      bindo);&lt;br /&gt;
                      out -  x1 is on the   rafsi:  ba&#039;o;  cog-&lt;br /&gt;
                      outside   of   x2/-   nate: &#039;Bahasa&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                      exterior   to   x2;  bebna&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bat            foolish -    x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                     basna                  foolish/silly    in&lt;br /&gt;
                      emphasize  -     x1   event/action/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      emphasizes/gives      property  (ka)  x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                      emphasis/stress  to   x1   is   a   boob;&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2 by  [action] x3;   rafsi:         beb;&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;accent&#039;     cognate: &#039;boob&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                     basti                 bemro&lt;br /&gt;
                      replace   -      x1   North  American   -&lt;br /&gt;
                      replaces/-            x1  reflects  North&lt;br /&gt;
                      substitutes for  x2   American  culture/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      in circumstance x3;   nationality/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:         bas;   geography in aspect&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate:              x2; rafsi: bem&lt;br /&gt;
                      &#039;substitute&#039;         bende&lt;br /&gt;
                     batci                  crew -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      bite -  x1 bites x2   crew/team/gang/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      on/at  x3;   rafsi:   squad/band/or-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bac                   chestra of  persons&lt;br /&gt;
                     batke                  x2   directed/led/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      button -   x1  is a   conducted by direc-&lt;br /&gt;
                      button/knob/-         tor/leader/con-&lt;br /&gt;
                      (handle)     on/for   ductor x3 organized&lt;br /&gt;
                      item x2,  with pur-   for   purpose   x4;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  bacru                                   95                                  berti&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:  bed   be&#039;e;&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;band&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                     bengo&lt;br /&gt;
                      Bengali   -      x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      reflects    Bengali&lt;br /&gt;
                      culture/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      nationality/lan-&lt;br /&gt;
                      guage in aspect x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: beg be&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
                     benji&lt;br /&gt;
                      transfer  -      x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      transfers/sends/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      transmits   x2   to&lt;br /&gt;
                      receiver  x3   from&lt;br /&gt;
                      transmitter/origin&lt;br /&gt;
                      x4 via means/medium&lt;br /&gt;
                      x5;  (cf.   muvdu);&lt;br /&gt;
                      possibly &amp;quot;sharing&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
                      no       (complete)&lt;br /&gt;
                      alienation     from&lt;br /&gt;
                      origin is implied);&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:   bej   bei;&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;send&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                     bersa&lt;br /&gt;
                      son -   x1 is a son&lt;br /&gt;
                      of  mother/father/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      parents   x2   (not&lt;br /&gt;
                      necessarily&lt;br /&gt;
                      biological); rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      bre&lt;br /&gt;
                     berti&lt;br /&gt;
                      north -   x1  is to&lt;br /&gt;
                      the  north/northern&lt;br /&gt;
                      side   (right-hand-&lt;br /&gt;
                      rule  pole)  of  x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      according to frame-&lt;br /&gt;
                      of-reference    x3;&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: ber&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  besna                                   96                                  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                     besna                  ports  ordered   as&lt;br /&gt;
                      brain -   x1 is a/-   well); rafsi: biz&lt;br /&gt;
                      the  brain   (body-  bidju&lt;br /&gt;
                      part)    of     x2;   bead -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      (metaphor:            bead/pebble&lt;br /&gt;
                      intelligence,  men-   (shape/form)     of&lt;br /&gt;
                      tal       control);   material x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bes           bifce&lt;br /&gt;
                     betfu                  bee  -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      abdomen -    x1  is   bee/wasp/hornet  of&lt;br /&gt;
                      a/the     abdomen/-   species/breed   x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                      belly/lower   trunk   rafsi: bic&lt;br /&gt;
                      (body-part) of  x2;  bikla&lt;br /&gt;
                      (metaphor:            whip -   x1 whips/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      midsection);   (cf.   lashes  (a   sudden&lt;br /&gt;
                      canti); rafsi:  bef   violent    motion);&lt;br /&gt;
                      be&#039;u;      cognate:   rafsi:         bik;&lt;br /&gt;
                      &#039;belly&#039;               cognate:     &#039;beat,&lt;br /&gt;
                     betri                  lash&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                      tragedy -   x1 is a  bilga&lt;br /&gt;
                      tragedy/disaster/-    obliged -    x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      tragic   for    x2;   bound/obliged  to/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:         bet;   has  the   duty  to&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;tragic&#039;     do/be   x2    in/by&lt;br /&gt;
                     bevri                  standard/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      carry   -        x1   agreement/frame x3;&lt;br /&gt;
                      carries/hauls/bears   x1  must   do   x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                      cargo x2 to x3 from   rafsi: big&lt;br /&gt;
                      x4  over  path  x5;  bilma&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi:  bev   be&#039;i;   ill -   x1 is ill/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      cognate: &#039;bear&#039;       sick/diseased  with&lt;br /&gt;
                     bi                     symptoms  x2   from&lt;br /&gt;
                      8 -   digit/number:   disease x3;  rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      8  (digit);  rafsi:   bi&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
                      biv                  bilni&lt;br /&gt;
                     bi&#039;i interval      -   military -   x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      non-logical           military/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      connective:     un-   regimented/is&lt;br /&gt;
                      ordered    interval   strongly      orga-&lt;br /&gt;
                      between (rafsi sup-   nized/prepared   by&lt;br /&gt;
                                            system    x2    for&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  besna                                   97                                  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                      purpose x3;  rafsi:   positive that x2 is&lt;br /&gt;
                      bil                   true; rafsi: bit&lt;br /&gt;
                     bindo                 bisli&lt;br /&gt;
                      Indonesian  -    x1   ice  -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      reflects Indonesian   quantity of/is made&lt;br /&gt;
                      culture/national-     of/contains     ice&lt;br /&gt;
                      ity/language     in   (frozen crystal) of&lt;br /&gt;
                      aspect  x2;  rafsi:   composition/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bid                   material x2; rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                     binra                  bis&lt;br /&gt;
                      insure   -       x1  bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
                      insures x2 (person)   wall -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      against x3  (event)   wall/fence&lt;br /&gt;
                      for     fee      x4   separating  x2  and&lt;br /&gt;
                      providing             x3 (unordered) of/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      benefit(s)       x5   in  structure   x4;&lt;br /&gt;
                      (event)               rafsi: bim bi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                     binxo                 blabi&lt;br /&gt;
                      become   -       x1   white  -     x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      becomes/changes       white/very-light&lt;br /&gt;
                      into    x2    under   colored      (color&lt;br /&gt;
                      conditions x3; (cf.   adjective);  rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      cenba,      galfi);   lab&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bix bi&#039;o      blaci&lt;br /&gt;
                     birje                  glass -   x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      beer -   x1 is made   quantity of/is made&lt;br /&gt;
                      of/contains/is    a   of/contains   glass&lt;br /&gt;
                      amount  of   beer/-   of composition x2&lt;br /&gt;
                      ale/brew     brewed  blanu&lt;br /&gt;
                      from x2               blue -   x1 is blue&lt;br /&gt;
                     birka                  (color  adjective);&lt;br /&gt;
                      arm -   x1 is a/the   rafsi: bla&lt;br /&gt;
                      arm (body-part)  of  bliku&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2;      (metaphor:   block -   x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      branch         with   block  (at-least-2-&lt;br /&gt;
                      strength;       cf.   dimensional shape/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      jimca); rafsi: bir    form)  of  material&lt;br /&gt;
                     birti                  x2,  dimensionality&lt;br /&gt;
                      certain -    x1  is   x3; rafsi: bli&lt;br /&gt;
                      certain/sure/-       bloti&lt;br /&gt;
                                            boat -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  besna                                   98                                  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                      boat/ship (vehicle)   box bo&#039;o;  cognate:&lt;br /&gt;
                      for  carrying   x2;   &#039;foil&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: lot blo lo&#039;i  boxna&lt;br /&gt;
                     bo                     wave -    x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      short scope  link -   wave (periodic pat-&lt;br /&gt;
                      short scope joiner;   tern) in medium x2,&lt;br /&gt;
                      attaches  two   ad-   wave-form x3, wave-&lt;br /&gt;
                      jacent  words  into   length          x4,&lt;br /&gt;
                      single unit; causes   frequency       x5;&lt;br /&gt;
                      right  grouping  in   rafsi: bon bo&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
                      tanru; rafsi: bor    bradi&lt;br /&gt;
                     bolci                  enemy -   x1  is an&lt;br /&gt;
                      ball -    x1  is  a   enemy/opponent/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      ball/sphere/orb/-     adversary of  x2 in&lt;br /&gt;
                      globe  (shape/form)   struggle  x3;  (cf.&lt;br /&gt;
                      of material  x2; x1   damba,       jamna,&lt;br /&gt;
                      is   a    spherical   darlu);    cognate:&lt;br /&gt;
                      object   (made   of   &#039;adversary&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2); rafsi: bol boi  bratu&lt;br /&gt;
                     bongu                  hail  -     x1   is&lt;br /&gt;
                      bone -  x1 is a/the   hail/sleet/freezing&lt;br /&gt;
                      bone (body-part) of   rain/solid&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2;      (metaphor:   precipitation    of&lt;br /&gt;
                      calcium);    rafsi:   material/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bog bo&#039;u              composition     x2;&lt;br /&gt;
                     botpi                  (cf. carvi, snime);&lt;br /&gt;
                      bottle -   x1  is a   this  is  the  sub-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bottle/jar/urn/-      stance, not the act&lt;br /&gt;
                      closable  container   or  manner  of  its&lt;br /&gt;
                      for  x2,   made  of   falling,  which  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      material  x3   with   carvi&lt;br /&gt;
                      lid    x4;     (cf.  brazo&lt;br /&gt;
                      baktu); rafsi:  bot   Brazilian  -     x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      bo&#039;i                  reflects  Brazilian&lt;br /&gt;
                     boxfo                  culture/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      sheet -   x1  is  a   nationality/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      sheet/foil/blanket    language in  aspect&lt;br /&gt;
                      (2-dimensional        x2; rafsi: raz&lt;br /&gt;
                      shape/form flexible  bredi&lt;br /&gt;
                      in 3 dimensions) of   ready  -     x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      material x2; rafsi:   ready/prepared  for&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  besna                                   99                                  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                      x2 (event);  rafsi:   assignable variable&lt;br /&gt;
                      red re&#039;i              predicate&lt;br /&gt;
                     bridi                  brodi&lt;br /&gt;
                      predicate  -     x1   predicate var  3  -&lt;br /&gt;
                      (du&#039;u)     is     a   x1   is   the   3rd&lt;br /&gt;
                      predicate             assignable variable&lt;br /&gt;
                      relationship   with   predicate&lt;br /&gt;
                      relation  x2  among  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                      arguments             predicate var  4  -&lt;br /&gt;
                      (sequence/set)  x3;   x1   is   the   4th&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bri            assignable variable&lt;br /&gt;
                     brife                  predicate&lt;br /&gt;
                      breeze -   x1  is a  brodu&lt;br /&gt;
                      breeze/wind/gale      predicate var  5  -&lt;br /&gt;
                      from  direction  x2   x1   is   the   5th&lt;br /&gt;
                      with   speed    x3;   assignable variable&lt;br /&gt;
                      rafsi: bif bi&#039;e       predicate&lt;br /&gt;
                     briju                 bruna&lt;br /&gt;
                      office -   x1 is an   brother -    x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      office/workplace of   brother        of/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      worker x2  at loca-   fraternal to  x2 by&lt;br /&gt;
                      tion   x3;   rafsi:   bond/tie/standard/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      bij;       cognate:   parent(s) x3;  (not&lt;br /&gt;
                      &#039;bureau&#039;              necessarily&lt;br /&gt;
                     brito                  biological); rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      British   -      x1   bun bu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
                      reflects  British/-  bu&#039;a some selbri 1 -&lt;br /&gt;
                      United Kingdom cul-   logically&lt;br /&gt;
                      ture/nationality in   quantified&lt;br /&gt;
                      aspect   x2;   (cf.   predicate variable:&lt;br /&gt;
                      glico,       skoto,   some   selbri    1;&lt;br /&gt;
                      merko); rafsi: rit    rafsi: bul&lt;br /&gt;
                     broda                 budjo&lt;br /&gt;
                      predicate var  1  -   Buddhist  -      x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      x1   is   the   1st   pertains   to   the&lt;br /&gt;
                      assignable variable   Buddhist  culture/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      predicate             religion/ethnos  in&lt;br /&gt;
                     brode                  aspect  x2;  rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                      predicate var  2  -   buj bu&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
                      x1   is   the   2nd  bukpu&lt;br /&gt;
                                            cloth -   x1  is an&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 besna                                   100                                  brodo&lt;br /&gt;
                      amount  of  cloth/-  bunre&lt;br /&gt;
                      fabric  of   type/-   brown  -     x1  is&lt;br /&gt;
                      material x2; rafsi:   brown/tan    (color&lt;br /&gt;
                      buk bu&#039;u              adjective);  rafsi:&lt;br /&gt;
                     bumru                  bur bu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
                      fog  -      x1   is  burcu&lt;br /&gt;
                      foggy/misty/covered   brush -   x1  is  a&lt;br /&gt;
                      by  a  fog/mist  of   brush  for  purpose&lt;br /&gt;
                      liquid  x2;  rafsi:   x2   (event)   with&lt;br /&gt;
                      bum                   bristles  x3;  (cf.&lt;br /&gt;
                     bunda                  komcu); rafsi:  buc&lt;br /&gt;
                      pound -   x1  is x2   bru&lt;br /&gt;
                      local        weight  burna&lt;br /&gt;
                      unit(s)       (non-   embarrassed -    x1&lt;br /&gt;
                      metric)    (default   is    embarrassed/-&lt;br /&gt;
                      1),   x3   subunits   disconcerted/flus-&lt;br /&gt;
                      (e.g.      ounces),   tered/ill-at-ease&lt;br /&gt;
                      standard x4; rafsi:   about/under&lt;br /&gt;
                      bud                   conditions x2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_15_moi&amp;diff=124090</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 15 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_15_moi&amp;diff=124090"/>
		<updated>2020-08-18T10:07:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 14 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 16 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 15 - August-September 1991&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1991, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273 &lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
First International Correspondence&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JL to Become Subscription Journal&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban List Moves&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ju&#039;i lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot; (commonly called &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;), and informing the community about logical languages in general.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For purposes of terminology, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; refers to a specific version of a logical human language, the generic language and associated research project having been called &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; refer to both the generic language and to Lojban as a specific instance of that language. The Lojban version of Loglan was created as an alternative because Dr. Brown and his organization claims copyright on everything in his version, including each individual word of the vocabulary. The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose without permission or royalty. la lojbangirz. believes that such free usage is a necessary condition for an engineered language like Loglan/Lojban to become a true human language, and to succeed in the various goals that have been proposed for its use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Page count this issue: 88+2 enclosures ($9.00 North America, $10.80 elsewhere). Press run for this issue of ju&#039;i lobypli: 275. We now have about 620 people on our active mailing list, and 240 more awaiting textbook publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us of changes in your activity/interest level. Balances reflect contributions received thru 31 August 1991. Mailing codes (and approximate balance needs) are:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Activity/Interest Level:                        Highest Package    &lt;br /&gt;
Received (Price Each)                           Other flags:       &lt;br /&gt;
B - Observer     0 - Introductory Materials ($5)  JL JL            &lt;br /&gt;
Subscription ($25/yr)                                              &lt;br /&gt;
C - Active Supporter                            1 - Word Lists and &lt;br /&gt;
Language Description ($15)                      LK LK Subscription &lt;br /&gt;
($5/yr)                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
D - Lojban Student                              2 - Language Design&lt;br /&gt;
Information ($10)                               R  Review Copy (no &lt;br /&gt;
charge)                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
E - Lojban Practitioner                         3 - Draft Teaching &lt;br /&gt;
Materials ($30)  UP Automatic Updates (&amp;gt;$20)                       &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed of changes in your mailing address, and US subscribers are asked to provide ZIP+4 codes whenever you know them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Important: Due to financial constraints, ju&#039;i lobypli will be fully converting to a subscription basis over the next few issues. Be sure to read the financial news section if you wish to keep receiving ju&#039;i lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We got a lot accomplished in the months leading up to LogFest, and several major decisions were made at that meeting. See the news section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. has made its first research proposal, to the U. S. defense agency DARPA, and also has attended its first linguistics conference. See the news section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue contains a lot of material derived from the Lojban List computer mailing list on the Internet. Nearly all such material has been edited, revised, and corrected from the original. Included are discussions of grammar points, some more on Lojban and linguistics, and a LOT of Lojban text. I have Lojban text material from over a dozen people to choose from for this issue, and it is tough to choose. Some will be saved for JL16.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         Table of Contents                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
News                                                               &lt;br /&gt;
  Finances                                                    ---3 &lt;br /&gt;
  Logfest 91                                                  ---5 &lt;br /&gt;
  Lojban List Moves / Electronic Distribution Policy          ---7 &lt;br /&gt;
  Language Development Activities                             ---8 &lt;br /&gt;
  Using the Language                                          --10 &lt;br /&gt;
  Research and Linguistics                                    --11 &lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status, Prices, and Ordering                       --12 &lt;br /&gt;
  International News                                          --15 &lt;br /&gt;
  Publicity; News From the Institute                          --16 &lt;br /&gt;
  New Loglans                                                 --17 &lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska                         --18, 26, 42, 47, 57, 65 &lt;br /&gt;
Is Lojban Scientifically Interesting?                         --20 &lt;br /&gt;
Summary of gismu/rafsi Official Changes                       --23 &lt;br /&gt;
Cleft Place Structures and sumti-Raising                      --32 &lt;br /&gt;
Versions of the Theory of Linguistic Relativity               --42 &lt;br /&gt;
On Loglan and Lojban Elidables                                --47 &lt;br /&gt;
A History and Description of le&#039;avla in Loglan and Lojban     --50 &lt;br /&gt;
The Culture gismu Revisited:  Cultural Neutrality and the gismu    &lt;br /&gt;
List                                                          --53 &lt;br /&gt;
Grammar Notes:  On Observatives; Predications and Identities  --61 &lt;br /&gt;
How to Say It - A New Regular? Feature                        --63 &lt;br /&gt;
Translations of le lojbo se ciska                             --79 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to la lojbangirz./Bob at: lojbab@grebyn.com (This is a new address and supersedes the prior &amp;quot;snark&amp;quot; address.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also join the Lojban List mailing list (currently around 80 subscribers). Send a single line message (automatically processed) containing only: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;subscribe lojban yourfirstname yourlastname&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
to: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
listserv@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have problems needing human intervention, send to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send traffic for the mailing list to: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility. If you want to participate on Lojban List, you should be prepared to read your mail at least every couple of days; otherwise your mailbox fills up and you are dropped from the mailing-list. FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details if you don&#039;t know how to access the Internet network.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve or Usenet/Internet address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of ju&#039;i lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and Institute Loglan another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We may have gotten momentarily overconfident in JL14, after raising a nice amount of money with our fund-raising letter last fall. Unfortunately, since that fund-raiser, income has been lower than the already depressed levels before the letter. We are hoping that this is due only to the recession, but cannot take chances - we have to pay the bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve found that a high percentage of people specifically ordering material from us contribute money to pay for it. It is ju&#039;i lobypli and le lojbo karni, which we send people without a specific prepaid order, that people do not contribute enough to cover. Our financial tracking system finally improved to the point where we could identify this situation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yet ju&#039;i lobypli is what people provide most feedback on, a product that people clearly like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer, it seems, is to put JL on a prepaid, specific order basis. Then, presumably, those of you who want JL will tell us so with your checkbooks and credit cards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This solution engenders its own new problems. We can presume that not every JL subscriber will subscribe if they have to pay for it in full and in advance. But if we drop significantly below 200 U.S. addressees, we lose our reduced 3rd class bulk rates in postage. This reduction amounts to about $2 per copy, or $400 per issue. So, if by reducing our subscriber list for JL does not save us at least $400, we are merely serving less people for the same amount of money. We thus find that there is a gap between about 140 and 200 U.S. subscribers where we lose as much or more money than when we send to additional people who are not paying. We suspect that going to a prepaid subscription basis will put us in the middle of that interval.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Going to a fully paid basis also makes it more difficult for students, people out-of-work, and low-income Lojbanists to get JL. Yet these subscribers are among our most productive volunteers, and have been more likely to spend the time and effort to start learning Lojban. Non-U.S subscribers are also hurt, having a higher price to pay, but often having a lower income because of their country&#039;s economy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, reducing our subscriber list reduces our outreach - our ability to attract new people and get them involved in learning and using Lojban. People who buy our products often learn about them through seeing how others use them productively in JL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fortunately, there is one option that may eliminate the bubble. In going to prepaid subscriptions, we may be able to become a &#039;legitimate&#039; periodical qualifying for U.S. Second Class (Periodical) postage rates. Second Class doesn&#039;t require the 200 minimum mailing that our current bulk rate permit does, has even lower rates per piece, and offers faster and more certain delivery than bulk rate mailings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, to establish legitimacy, we have to prove that our readers WANT to receive our publication. We can prove this either with formal audit procedures (which we cannot afford), or through having on file explicit requests from each of our subscribers. The latter must be signed and dated, or we must have other proof that the request is bona fide (such as electronic mail headers and addresses). The postal service will audit us at least once a year, and they check carefully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A side benefit/penalty (depending on whether you are the reader or the editor) is that 2nd class periodicals MUST be published regularly, and at least quarterly, so that JL would be coming out every 3 months with no slips like we&#039;ve been making lately.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A final factor is that it costs $275 just to apply for a 2nd class permit, so we must have all of our procedures in place BEFORE we apply.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We haven&#039;t decided for sure to go to 2nd class mailing - the rigor may be more than we can handle with one full-time worker, me, who has other things to do besides publish JL. But we are going to start jumping through the hoops and see whether we could do so if it proves financially necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, at LogFest 91, we decided on the following steps:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. JL will be converted to a prepaid subscription basis over a period of around a year. If this means that we lose bulk rate, so be it. Price will be $20- $25/year, payable in advance. People with negative balances will be cut off (switched to le lojbo karni), unless supported either by volunteer credits (see below) or by direct donation by another person.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The first step will be a fund-raiser and direct-mail announcement of the new policy in the next month or two. Every subscriber to JL will be sent a form to be signed and returned indicating that you want to receive JL, and a signature line will be added to our order form. If not signed and returned and you have a negative balance, you will be dropped as a JL subscriber, but will receive LK instead. If you have a positive balance, we still need you to return the form to qualify for 2nd class mailing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Thereafter, the negative balance cutoff for JL subscribers will be raised each issue, and people not making the cut will be dropped to an LK subscription. We will give people a one issue advance notice of cutoff. For those with very negative balances, you will be able to avoid the cutoff by explicitly subscribing and sending a signed, paid order for JL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be no exceptions. Some of you with very negative balances may wish to decide what you want your status to be, and possibly to negotiate with someone or with us to continue to receive issues. If you have done things for us, including active participation on Lojban List such that we use your material in JL, you can possibly negotiate delayed payment or a partial amount to be paid to zero out your balance. We ask however that for those who can afford to, you pay most or all of your balances off so that we can help out others who cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We do not intend to drop LK subscribers until the books are done, except upon request. It isn&#039;t feasible to put LK on a subscription basis, because the response rate to our mailings is so low.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Given the cutback, we hope that our financial condition improves to the point that we have a surplus. If so, the following plan will aid the ones who cannot pay for subscriptions and other materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A &#039;volunteer credit&#039; donation fund will be set up. People who donate can specify donations for general expenses, or specifically for this fund. In addition, a specific portion of any excess revenues (profits) will be put in this fund.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A committee will accept recommendations of people who have contributed in a wide variety of ways from commentary on JL, learning the language, participation on Lojban List, recruiting, overseas activities. They will also get a list from me each issue of people whose balance is less than the subscription cutoff, along with notes on any special circumstances that might allow them to be retained as JL subscribers. The committee will allocate the funds among the possible recipients, so as to allow the maximum number to be retained as JL subscribers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. We will seek direct donations of larger amounts of money from companies, especially from computer companies who might profit by the positive image of supporting non-profit scientific and educational research with computer applications. We are asking ALL subscribers associated with a company who might be willing to help support us, and who either have some influence in such decisions, or know who we should contact to request such assistance in your company, to let us know. We will also be directly seeking out ideas and information from a couple of you whom people have recommended that we specifically ask.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are seeking donations, probably in the $1000-$15000 range, to support specific or general research projects in Lojban applications, and also to support publication of the textbook and dictionary in amounts large enough to keep the price down and allow wide distribution. Specifically from companies that manufacture and sell computers, we also are seeking unrestricted donations of one or two small machines. Unrestricted donation means that we could use or sell the machine - selling it to get money for support or using it for research purposes. Two machines would allow us to sell one and keep one. Donation of machines to la lojbangirz. apparently benefits such companies more than direct cash donations. Again, ideas are welcome in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One such donation will greatly ease our month to month financial pressure. A larger donation or more smaller ones would allow us to make intelligent financial decisions on how to complete our projects and to get serious research started, without the distorting effect of living hand-to-mouth. Please help if you can.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. We plan to establish a &#039;Sustaining Membership&#039; similar to other non-profit organizations. Probably costing $50/year, the benefits will be minimal - perhaps acknowledgement in our books, periodicals, and our annual reports, perhaps a 10% or 20% discount on purchases, and higher priority on orders and services. The main &#039;benefit&#039; will be knowing you are helping make Lojban a success. Details will be announced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Finally, we have gotten a local computer network account which will significantly cut la lojbangirz.&#039;s phone bill.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We believe these steps will be more than sufficient to right our tottering finances. We&#039;ve made a lot of progress so far, but as we continue to rapidly grow, it is easy to lose control. la lojbangirz. is now far larger than I can financially support by myself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a business, we need a safety margin so that financial crisis is not always knocking at the door. And if we have to worry less about finances, that means all the more effort that can be put towards writing books and software and otherwise making sure Lojban continues to grow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LogFest 91 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logfest 91, the annual gathering for celebration of Lojban, started Thursday night, June 20, with the arrival of the first three visitors, even though no organized activities (other than getting ready) were scheduled for Friday. As happens when a good group of Lojbanists gets together, Friday was filled with a variety of lively and interesting discussions (not limited to Lojban). As people arrived, the discussions got livelier, and a bit more serious.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On Friday night, we turned to discussion of the financial situation, and a related matter - the distribution of Lojban materials electronically (via the computer networks). Such distribution helps our costs by reducing postage, and offers the potential of more rapidly expanding the Lojban community, but with a likely loss of income since many people who receive materials electronically will not contribute to the costs of those materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The discussion ran all night, and was heated at times. The result, though, was a workable policy that attendees were satisfied with. This new policy is discussed below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On Saturday, after a slow start due to late sleepers, we started doing &#039;serious&#039; Lojban. We had prepared for a couple of dozen different kinds of activities, so as to be ready for a range of Lojban experience and interests. This year, attendees were almost all active students who knew enough vocabulary and grammar for us to undertake intermediate activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One activity that proved moderately successful was translating aphorisms. People seem much more comfortable trying to translate single sentences both from English to Lojban and vice versa, than with longer texts. Thus, every participant got a random aphorism out of a box (we pregraded the aphorisms by grammatical difficulty, so people chose a line they had a reasonable chance to translate), and worked on a translation to Lojban. More experienced Lojbanists aided the less skilled ones. Then each person presented her/his translation to the group as a whole, who then tried to figure out what it meant. In general, everyone successfully understood others&#039; translations, using their word lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A weakness of the activity was the size of the group. With over a dozen participants, it took a long time to go through all translations. We know next time we have that many people to divide into groups, so that things move quicker. Still, everyone learned a lot, and many were surprised at how easily and well they could understand the translations. You can try the activity yourself - aphorisms in both English and Lojban will be found in le lojbo se ciska this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less intense was a discussion on making tanru and lujvo. We&#039;ve tried this before, but working at the level of individual words gets people bogged down in the semantics of English. In this case, working on lujvo for the English word &amp;quot;tyranny&amp;quot;, we ended up with over a dozen tanru, each with its own subtle distinction in meaning, and no real agreement on a &#039;best&#039; one. My own opinion is that there is no &#039;best&#039; lujvo for any given English concept, because you will choose a different emphasis depending on the context. This exercise, always educational but always somewhat of a failure, reminds us that Lojban and English are very different languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were other activities on Saturday, but the primary focus outside of the above activities was group discussion and socializing. Art Protin and David Twery, visiting from New Jersey and the Philadelphia area respectively met local Lojbanist Sylvia Rutiser, and agreed to start writing Lojban letters to each other; there is now good hope that there will come to be active Lojban social/study groups in those two areas. Art and David also promised that every once in a while they would pile into the car and drive to the DC area for an informal Lojban social get together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday was dominated by the annual meeting of la lojbangirz., which started at 10:30 AM. That meeting recessed for lunch, but ran until 5 PM as we wrestled with financial issues and priorities for the coming year. A lot of decisions were made, and even more than previous years, I think people were both satisfied with the result and convinced that everyone had a meaningful voice in the process. Since the latter was a major reason for forming la lojbangirz., these long meetings are worthwhile.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are taking some steps towards speeding up future meetings. We will have more advance notice of agenda items so people can be prepared for discussion before LogFest starts. We will also try to have a Board of Directors meeting perhaps a month before LogFest to weed out issues and ensure group attention to the most important, while expediting routine business. We also hope, of course, that our finances will improve to the point that we no longer have to spend hours debating new strategies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With such a long meeting, nonvoting Lojbanists tended to drift in and out of the meeting into a variety of discussions and informal activities. By the end of the meeting, a lively game of &amp;quot;la reno preti&amp;quot; (20 Questions) was being played, entirely in Lojban. This proved to be the most successful of the Lojban activities, continuing well-into the evening.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By Monday, only 3 Lojbanists were left. Two stayed until mid-week, with Bob Chassell joining in the regular Tuesday evening conversation group, reporting in Lojban on his touristy explorations of Washington, and leading another round of &amp;quot;la reno preti&amp;quot;. One unfortunate problem with a weekend gathering is that so many (especially those from out-of-town) cannot arrive until very late Frday (whereupon they have to sleep half of Saturday in order to recover), and they then have to leave by late afternoon Sunday. Given that the annual meeting so dominates Sunday, this tends to give us less than a day for a variety of activities. Thus the activities portion of LogFest has tended to be only mildly successful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We work more each year on pre-planning activities, but planning is inherently limited. We never know till people arrive who is coming, what their Lojban skill level is, and what activities they find interesting. Also, as with the aphorism translations, activities that we test out successfully in a weekly conversation session may work quite successfully with 5 or 6 people, but may bog down with a dozen or more participating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, people noted and were pleased by the increasing sophistication of the in-Lojban activities, and the general skill of everyone participating. We still haven&#039;t reached the point where Lojban conversations break out spontaneously, but this may happen next year given the rate of improvement in Lojban speakers. More attendees will make this more likely, and improve the variety of activities going on at any one time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Total attendance was 17, most of whom were there all weekend. 7 were from out-of-town. About half were skilled enough to converse at least minimally in Lojban, although such &#039;conversations&#039; tended to be only snippets and remarks. 13 attended the business meeting on Sunday. John Cowan was elected to the Board of Directors and Albion Zeglin dropped his Board and voting membership due to lack of time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest is supposed to be FUN, not all work. A major difference from previous LogFests is that the activities schedule didn&#039;t include a mass of technical debates and decisions that had to be made. Of course, since the major Lojban design decisions have been made, only relatively minor questions of style, semantics, and how we teach the language remain to be resolved. These were decided in advance, or in a couple of cases, informally during the gathering (for example, the nest of issues we&#039;ve called &amp;quot;sumti-raising&amp;quot; - see below - were satisfactorily resolved &amp;quot;in the halls&amp;quot; during LogFest).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among minor decisions: &amp;quot;?spero&amp;quot; as a culture word for &amp;quot;Esperanto&amp;quot; was voted down, and the baseline of the gismu was reaffirmed; few of the &#039;old-timers&#039; want even minimal change. &amp;quot;navni&amp;quot; is broadened to include &amp;quot;inert gas&amp;quot; in its meaning. Finally, pending grammar proposals were adopted and the grammar was rebaselined until after the textbook is completed - people are generally satisfied with the grammar for now, and are waiting to see how it is used and taught.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz./Institute split - In accordance with a unanimous vote taken at the time of la lojbangirz.&#039;s original charter in August 1987, when we started &amp;quot;Lojban - The Realization of Loglan&amp;quot;, now also known as &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; or just &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;, la lojbangirz. has made repeated efforts over the last several years to mend the political split with The Loglan Institute, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Earlier this year, we proposed a settlement that would have remerged the two current versions of Loglan into one. The plan would have guaranteed an honored place for JCB, as well as organizational and possible financial support for the Institute. No response was received.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban design is essentially complete. Time has run out on making changes to facilitate a merger - we can no longer make significant changes without corresponding impact on those who have learned and will learn Loglan/Lojban. Our version of Loglan is now substantially better than the Institute&#039;s, and we have people speaking and writing the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of this situation, the LogFest attendees voted that &amp;quot;Expending resources towards reconciliation with JCB or the Institute is not a good use of resources at this time, but we remain open to such reconciliation should their position change in the future.&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;There is no longer special authority given to pronouncements of JCB or the Institute about the language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is unfortunate that we have had to go to such lengths in our dispute, but we have tried hard and long for an alternative without success. We cannot allow the ill will of one person, even the language inventor, to prevent us from freely using the language he invented. The language belongs to the community now, as it must be to succeed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope that JCB and the Institute will change their position; we then can restore JCB to the position of honor and esteem that he once held among the entire Loglan community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Electronic Distribution News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Lojban List Moves ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A major accomplishment of LogFest was the adoption of a policy for electronic distribution of materials that balances our desire to get these products to the public, thus aiding in the language growth, with our need for income from our publications, and a goal to fairly distribute our services to both computer people and non-computer people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The essential core of the policy benefits all Lojbanists, regardless of your access to materials: All published &amp;quot;language definition materials&amp;quot; will be placed in the public domain, and will be distributable without restriction, in any medium. These include word lists and the language grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Teaching materials, some draft materials, and all JLs, will be distributable under our retained copyright using a standard license - shown in the distribution policy below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All materials, except those that we rely on to show a profit to support our other activities (like software and the textbook), will be posted for electronic distribution. Some materials, like ju&#039;i lobypli, will be posted after considerable delay (6 months or more), so that we make a current paid-for copy a valuable service. In addition, the material as posted will generally have minimal formatting for electronic text. Electronic JLs and many other publications will be difficult to read, because standard electronic text uses 80 characters per line, and we use much higher print densities in formatting our publications. As a result, an electronic &#039;printout&#039; of JL may have sections that will be unreadable without manual editing; la lojbangirz. will not do that editing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our point of original distribution will be the &#039;Planned Languages Server&#039; on the Internet. Over the next few months, as time allows, Bob will prepare materials for distribution. (We will also supply data directly on diskette - current price is $10 per uncompressed diskful, in any of the 4 diskette formats we can support: 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 high and low density MS-DOS.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For those with Internet access who wish to get materials, send a message containing, on separate lines, &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;index lojban&amp;quot; to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
listserv@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Server will reply automatically. The index will identify what files are available - a reading priority should be a &#039;read-me&#039; file that will describe the files officially put out by la lojbangirz., and their status. The help file will tell you how to request files to be sent to you - generally all you need to do is say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;send lojban/filename&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On an organized basis, we expect that much of this material will be cross-posted to the Compuserve &#039;Foreign Language Education&#039; forum by varying Lojbanists with access to both Internet and Compuserve. Lojbanists are welcome to distribute the material electronically in keeping with the policy described below - any restrictions will be noted in the files themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All materials will be released directly by me to Jerry Altzman of the PLS. The read-me file will contain my directory of dates and version numbers of all such releases.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We eventually plan to include in the official directory an MD-4 (tamper-resistant &#039;message digest&#039; value) for each file so you can verify that material you obtain is authentic. We will also publish a printed MD-4 checksum list separately, and will make available for free a program to determine the MD-4 checksum of any file. There are some hangups in implementing the MD-4 support because the checksum must be calculated on the file as it actually is sent by the Server, which has UNIX-oriented line and file conventions that differ from the ones associated with the MS-DOS version produced by la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Others are encouraged submit Lojban materials to the Server; we will occasionally check these materials and advise the Server managers (Lojbanists Jerry Altzman and Mark Shoulson) as to which materials we think are useful and current. (We ask that you send us a copy of all such submissions, with a note that you plan to so submit them. Send them either by paper-mail to the la lojbangirz. address, or electronically to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. encourages comments on draft materials that are released to PLS.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jerry Altzman is helping us out in another way. Volume on the Lojban List mailing group has grown so that it was straining list-founder Eric Raymond&#039;s network connection. Jerry found room for us on one of the computers he manages, and Lojban List was switched during the last week of August. In addition, the list now uses a more advanced &amp;quot;Listserv&amp;quot; process that allows people to sign up and remove themselves from the list, temporarily suspend receiving messages when overloaded or vacationing, and of course post messages, all without human intervention. See page 2 for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Logical Languages Group Policy &lt;br /&gt;
Electronic Distribution of Materials&lt;br /&gt;
Approved 23 June 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1991 The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
(la lojbangirz.) &lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) la lojbangirz. publications and materials are hereby divided into three groups:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group A materials consist of text, and are sold at or near cost.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group B materials consist of text, and are sold above cost.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group C materials consist of computer software, and are sold above cost.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This division is independent of the division into Level/Package 0-3 materials, which depends not on cost but on the presumed interest level of the reader.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) The following are non-exhaustive lists of materials in each group:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group A: JL and LK issues; draft textbook lessons; word lists; language definition materials; ancillary materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group B: the (as yet unwritten) textbook; the (as yet unwritten) dictionary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Group C: Logflash for PC and Mac; the la lojbangirz. Lojban Parser (in beta release); lujvo-maker; random sentence generator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) la lojbangirz. will provide all materials in Group A for electronic distribution free of charge. All materials, except word lists and other language definition materials, will be copyrighted using a copyright notice essentially similar to the one attached to this draft policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4) To assure the integrity of electronically distributed la lojbangirz. materials, every document distributed electronically will bear a message digest value computed using the MD-4 algorithm, source code for which is publicly available.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5) la lojbangirz. will make available, free of charge, a list of the MD-4 message digest values for all materials released in electronic distribution. la lojbangirz. will also provide a program to compute message digest values, free of charge with the purchase of Group C materials, subject to technical limitations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6) la lojbangirz. intends to use the Planned Languages Server as the primary distribution medium on the Internet. Other distribution media on the same or other networks may be established at la lojbangirz.&#039;s discretion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7) Materials in Group B and Group C will not be distributed electronically. Group C materials in object form will be distributed on diskette and whatever other media are technically available to la lojbangirz. (currently, none).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8) Source code to Group C software will be made available on diskette or other media to persons who sign a non-disclosure agreement with la lojbangirz., at a cost equal to the cost of the Group C software in object form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9) This policy becomes effective when ratified by la lojbangirz.&#039;s official bodies. (it has been.) It may be altered at any time by la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Language Development Activities ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vocabulary - Many minor vocabulary-polishing activities occurred since last issue. 20 gismu proposed and approved last year were finally created using the 6-language algorithm. rafsi were assigned to as many of these as possible, and the cmavo list was examined to see how many cmavo that might be useful in lujvo could be assigned rafsi. The revised rafsi have been released in an updated list - see the products news below. The new gismu and the changes to the rafsi list are in the features section of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The cmavo list has also been updated - reflecting the grammar and usage developments of the last year. Extended definitions, up to 96 characters long, are incorporated into the new list. The cmavo list update will be released at approximately the same time as JL16 in October, along with the Logflash 3 cmavo instruction software and other materials, giving time for last minute reviews.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The gismu place structure revision has been idling since last fall. This project was intended to produce 96-character extended and clarified place structures/definitions for each gismu, thus providing clearer information for those learning and using the words, and allowing the new list to be used as input for the updated LogFlash 1, now scheduled for October release.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure review will almost certainly not be completed before that October release because of its relatively low priority, so we have decided that a version close to the present working list will be released in October at the time LogFlash is updated, replacing the current list. The new list will become the official public domain language definition list upon release, and we will recommend that people studying or using the language start using that list as soon as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A last minute proposal assigns rafsi to fo&#039;a, fo&#039;e and fo&#039;i (selma&#039;o KOhA). These assigned to names with du or goi plus several other cmavo rafsi (mi, do, vi, va, vu, ti, ta, tu) can be used along with names to allow more abbreviated expressions of cultures not included in the gismu list. e.g. fo&#039;e du la suomis (Finland). .i mi cilre lo fo&#039;enselsanga. (I learn a Finnish song.) Since the most useful culture words are those for &#039;my&#039; culture and &#039;your&#039; culture, &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; will be likely to be used in this way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last paragraph uses the word &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot;, which may be unfamiliar. We have adopted this lujvo for what we have previously called a &amp;quot;lexeme&amp;quot;. The lujvo is based on the second place of &amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;, which is the grammatical role of the cmavo. The things we are calling &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot; are the basic grammatical types of cmavo and other words found in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The definition of &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot; shows a little of the meaning variation permissible in lujvo, since selma&#039;o BRIVLA and CMENE are not grammatical units of cmavo, although all other selma&#039;o are. The generalized meaning implicit in &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot; is acceptable since people learn finely details of word meanings by seeing how they are used, not by some kind of rigorous analysis.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grammar - The proposed changes to the grammar printed in JL14 went without a single comment, or even a question. What little feedback we got seemed to indicate that the discussion was too technical for most readers, and that without considerably more discussion and examples, printing the proposals was not worthwhile.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Additional proposals evolved after JL14 was published, finally totalling 28. All but one, the &#039;sumti-raising&#039; proposal discussed below, passed without comment from Lojban List as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, at Logfest, the set of 28 changes was adopted, and the grammar was rebaselined until after the textbook is completed and reviewed. We do not plan to consider any changes until then, and very few are expected to surface, anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even the 28 changes adopted are quite minor: almost nothing written in the language in the past two years became ungrammatical as a result of changes, and a few things not grammatical became so, since many of the changes were designed to bring the formal description of the grammar more closely aligned with how people actually were using the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, and this seems significant: in the last few months it has become clear that no longer is the language design being driven by language engineers like myself who are trying to figure out how people WILL use the language. Instead, we have a group of people using Lojban, and what they find out in trying to express things in the language has driven many, if not most, of the most recent changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other significant factor in the grammar is that a complete-grammar Lojban parser has finally been completed. Not only does this provide a new standard for what is grammatical in the language, but it serves as a stabilizing force motivating against changes that might render this valuable tool outdated. (The parser is expected to be released some time this fall.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Semantics and style - A new entry in this discussion, because the Lojban design plan excludes semantics and style being prescribed. However, we have people actively using the language in conversation, translation, and new writings. The questions that come up in actual usage of the language are generally not grammatical ones, but usage questions like &amp;quot;How do you say this?&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Why doesn&#039;t this work?&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One Lojbanist, Nick Nicholas, has made discussion of style his primary theme on Lojban List. He has backed this discussion with the most prolific use of the language after Michael Helsem (whose Lojban poetry is now truly voluminous - he has published a volume of it).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Style and semantic issues that have been raised and discussed on Lojban List are too numerous to mention here. A lengthy discussion of relativistic tenses started the trend last winter. More recently, the primary topics have been the determination of meaning of lujvo (stimulated by Jim Carter&#039;s oft-rejected proposal for what he calls &amp;quot;dikyjvo&amp;quot; - regular mandatory rules for building lujvo based on the source gismu place structures), the distinction between abstract and non-abstract sumti values (tied in with the discussion of &#039;sumti-raising&#039; - see below), the meaning and usage of the various modals in selma&#039;o BAI, and the mass/set/individual distinction in Lojban descriptors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other &#039;old&#039; issues are really semantic ones. Debate has continued on the necessity and value of the cultural gismu and the gismu that represent elements. Most often the debate derives from new people who are not familiar with the reasons why they were included, which include historical reasons as well as the justification of usage. There is considerable fear that these words will lead to cultural biases, fears not shared by Bob and others who have been working on the language longest. We expect that this issue will not be resolved until the dictionary is published, wherein the words for other cultures and elements that did not get assigned gismu will be listed, along with the rules for deriving new words of those kinds as needed. (An article later in this issue discusses cultural gismu.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One recurring issue that affects the community as a whole is the frequency and type of translations presented with Lojban text. We can give no translation, or a block translation for an entire text, or line by line translations which are either colloquial English or word-for-word. The more literal the translation, the less need you have to look up words in words lists. This can be both good and bad: the trade-off is between learning the vocabulary or understanding the grammar. Some people want text they can try to read and be challenged. Others are just trying to get a feel for the language. What do you want? What do you think we should change, if anything, in our Lojban text presentations in JL?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Using the Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the most significant area of news, in my opinion. The number of people actively trying to speak and write in Lojban to communicate with others has exploded. Since JL14, I have received or reviewed extensive text (more than a couple of paragraphs of block text) in Lojban from Bob Chassell, John Cowan, Ivan Derzhanski, Coranth D&#039;Gryphon, Michael Helsem, Rory Hinnen, Nick Nicholas, Sylvia Rutiser, Mark Shoulson, David Twery, and written some myself. By comparison, only Jamie Bechtel, John Cowan, Sylvia Rutiser and myself sent in extensive text over the 8 month period between JL13 and JL14.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not counting a couple of dozen people who have written letters or sent messages electronically with a sentence or two of understandable and often grammatical text. Several other people have told me that they have written some, or a lot of, Lojban text (in some cases, I am waiting to see before believing; the amounts claimed seem incredible).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael Helsem has collected several of his Lojban poems, made corrections, and published them in an artistically decorated cover - copies were given to every LogFest attendee. There are still some Lojban errors in the book, but if you like poetry, the English versions will have value and the enormous volume of Lojban may inspire you, as well as provide ideas on what works and what fails to communicate in Lojban text. We have several copies left of this &#039;first Lojban book&#039;, which we will send free upon request to anyone making a prepaid order over $20, or for postage costs only ($2-$3) otherwise. Michael seeks comments and suggestions from all readers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Hodges observes that Michael&#039;s publication, even with imperfect Lojban, is a &amp;quot;significant event, symbolically and politically. This is exactly the kind of thing [la lojbangirz.] wanted to make possible by insisting that the language be public domain, and precisely what JCB wanted to prevent by keeping copyright control over the very words of his language. Helsem did not ask permission to publish. You and he took it for granted that it was his right to publish. JCB would deny this. To defend the purity of the language, JCB would insist that Helsem correct his grammar before publishing. (Not to mention, send royalties to JCB.)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia Rutiser and Ernest Heramia started an intermittent &#039;pen-pal&#039; correspondence last winter. Ivan Derzhanski (Bulgaria) and Nick Nicholas (Australia) started the first international correspondence exchange in May. Recently Sylvia, David Twery, and Art Protin started a round-robin letter exchange. I have a list of several others interested in writing letters in Lojban - send us a note with a few sentences (or maybe a self-descriptive paragraph) in Lojban with English translation, and we will try to match you with someone of comparable skill. Give us some indication of how often you would expect to write - one problem we have experienced so far is people prepared to write as often as once a week paired with people who take months to respond.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The amount of Lojban text now being posted on the Lojban List is rather overwhelming at times. Nick Nicholas first got materials from us around the time JL14 was published. He has recently been the most prolific and one of the most skillful among Lojban writers, posting paragraphs of text to Lojban List virtually every week. Noting that Nick is also a full-time student AND one of the leaders of the Australian Esperanto organization, his productivity makes me ashamed of my own (but .ui what inspiration).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also on the computer network, Jack Bennetto has started a game of &amp;quot;telephone&amp;quot; (you may know this as &amp;quot;whisper down the line&amp;quot;, or by another name). Starting with a moderately complex sentence, each successive person translates what he/she receives from English to Lojban or vice versa, and passes the translation to the next person. We&#039;ve had no reports yet on how well this activity is proceeding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Weekly Lojban conversation sessions have continued here in the Washington DC area, with anywhere from 3 to 6 attending each session (about 10 people total have participated). The amount of conversation time has dropped a bit, because the group spent time before LogFest planning activities for the gathering. Since LogFest, we have started an intermittent group project - translating the entire board game &amp;quot;Careers&amp;quot; into Lojban in honor of Jim Brown, who invented both the language and the game. (We may seek permission from Parker Brothers Inc., which owns rights to the game, to distribute the game translation to those of you who are interested.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not all Lojban text is orderly. Next issue will contain a sampling of the Lojban graffiti that appeared on a wall of Bob and Nora&#039;s house (specially prepared to make this non-destructive) during LogFest. One other ongoing activity is the construction of a Lojban traveler&#039;s phrase book, after the style of Berlitz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New Lojbanic activities seem to surface every week or two, and I have no doubt that there will be a new crop of them to report by JL16. Why not let yours be among them?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research and Linguistics ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Project is starting to become a real research endeavor again. We have established a presence on several major forums for computer linguistics information exchange, and are making ourselves known to linguists who are researching in areas where Lojban might be relevant. Among these areas are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* linguistic expression of emotion;&lt;br /&gt;
* word compounding;&lt;br /&gt;
* predicate deep structure grammars;&lt;br /&gt;
* the ISO standards for international character set encodings;&lt;br /&gt;
* semiotics;&lt;br /&gt;
* representation of abstraction;&lt;br /&gt;
* logical expression;&lt;br /&gt;
* computational linguistics;&lt;br /&gt;
* machine translation;&lt;br /&gt;
* abstract system specification language;&lt;br /&gt;
* foreign language education.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At least one well-known linguist has expressed interest in Lojban, and we hope to attract many more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob wrote an essay on the linguistic research applications of Lojban for posting to one of these groups. This essay appears later in this issue, slightly edited. A new version of the Lojban brochure will be issued in a couple of months, incorporating some of this material.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan and Bob attended GURT (The Georgetown University Round Table of Linguistics) this year. GURT is one of the more prestigious linguistics conferences. There were just under 800 attendees. After initially being hesitant for fear of adverse reaction from linguists, on Wednesday we put out about 30 brochures with a short note on Lojban&#039;s applicability to linguistics research. They were gone within two hours. On Thursday we put out 110 more, and nearly all were gone when the conference ended at 4PM. We got some great name recognition out of this, even if none of these brochure readers decides to do something about Lojban just yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect some will do so eventually. Almost everyone we talked to seemed at least mildly interested in the concept of an artificial language designed for linguistics research, and a couple of researchers thought we had some interesting research angles that they might like to investigate. I would say that Athelstan and I together threw up more questions (usually good from the reaction of the audience and the speaker) than most people, so I&#039;m sure we were noticed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The primary topic at GURT was foreign language education, but we also attended sessions on natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is planning to attend at least one and possibly two more linguistics conferences this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is closer to initiating scientific research using Lojban. The new version of LogFlash contains instrumentation that will allow study of how people learn words, and whether the recognition score algorithm used to build the words has any relevance to their learnability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More importantly, la lojbangirz. in July prepared and submitted its first research proposal. The proposal (actually a proposal abstract since we did not request a specific dollar amount) was submitted to DARPA (US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), the primary government funding agency for artificial intelligence and natural language processing research. We didn&#039;t win this initial bid, but preparing the proposal stimulated much new activity around here and opened options that look quite promising for the future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bidding for research grants is a learning experience. In today&#039;s competitive research environment, it may take several proposals to get one grant or contract. The initial proposal not only serves as a basis for further proposals, which are now half written at the start, but every effort we make teaches us more about how to do things better the next time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, since submitting the proposal abstract, John Cowan has been researching and writing up a detailed analysis that shows that Lojban is a superset of the computer language PROLOG, often used in artificial intelligence processing. This means that most, if not all, Lojban sentences could be processed into PROLOG statements and fed into a PROLOG processor. This would greatly reduce the cost and risk of developing a Lojban processor from scratch. (We seek PROLOG experts among the community to review John&#039;s work. Let us know you&#039;re interested!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A major plus in our efforts to obtain research funding is John Cowan&#039;s completion of a full-language Lojban parser. Still in testing, this parser breaks all Lojban text (including cmavo compounds) down to individual words and parses the results. The ability to parse at the individual word level is a major improvement over the best accomplishments of the Loglan Institute before we started on the Lojban redesign. More importantly, it is better than anything that can be accomplished in processing natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, our &#039;advantage&#039; may be a problem with getting DARPA funding. It turns out that having bypassed the worst problems in natural language processing, the problems that we need and want to solve to process Lojban text are quite different than the ones considered on the &#039;leading edge&#039; of research. We thus are required to write proposals extremely carefully to show how learning to process Lojban text will lead to better processing of natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope to include portions of our proposal in JL16, in order to give our supporters an idea of how we are presenting the language. But also, we welcome suggestions from the community on how to better explain our research approach, and to prove that it is sound. (We also want to hear of any alternate research approaches that we may be missing).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Products Status, Prices, and Ordering ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the decisions described in the finances section, we are making changes in our coding for mailing status. These changes are summarized in the new mailing label coding block on page 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most importantly, we have separated JL and LK subscriptions from the status codes (levels 0, 1, 2, 3, and B). We have also added an automatic update status that is independent of the others, indicating your desire to receive updates and your commitment to keep enough in your balance to pay for them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, we are separating the activity level implied in the level numbers from the encoding of the materials we actually have sent you. As people have moved around in level, or been downgraded, your &#039;mailing level&#039; no longer tells us what material you have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The activity level portion of your level will be converted to a letter code indicating your current interest level. The level numbers 0 through 3 will refer to a series of packaged materials that will tell us what we&#039;ve sent you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The conversion to letter codes, and their interpretation, is as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Level B) Observer (old level 0/B) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Level C) Active Observer/Supporter (old level 1 and 2) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Level D) Lojban Student (old level 3) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Level E) Lojban Practitioner (people demonstrating some competency with the language, and actively using it in some regular activity)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&#039;A&#039;, in case you are wondering, is used for people dropped from our mailing list, for whom we maintain financial accounts because we&#039;ve sent materials.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The difference between old level 0 and old level B has merely been whether you were receiving le lojbo karni or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original difference between old levels 1 and 2 was whether you automatically get updates of materials when they are updated (presumably a level 2 was more active and needed the latest information for active work). Since we went so long without issuing any updates, and have gotten into such a financial morass, the distinction became insignificant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then, during the last year, we started sending some additional materials to level 2 people that we don&#039;t send to level 1 people, in order to keep the level 1 price down. Thus the original distinction we intended between the two levels was lost, and we are restoring that information as the automated update flag. You will not receive automatic updates unless you keep sufficient balance to pay for them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These codes will now appear separately on your mailing label, and with the start of paid JL subscriptions, your subscription expiration date/ issue will also appear on your mailing label.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is increasing interest among Lojbanists in contacting and communicating with others of equivalent skill levels. Right now, Bob makes these evaluations subjectively, but as the numbers of people actually using the language increases, Bob&#039;s evaluations become less reliable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, we are also planning a proficiency code system that will tell us your demonstrated proficiency level at reading, writing, or speaking Lojban. To minimize confusion, we will delay implementing this for about 6 months. Suggestions are welcome, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Products and Schedule - This past year has been one of change, of consolidation. We haven&#039;t produced many &#039;new&#039; things; we have been enhancing and refining old ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fruits of that effort are now starting to show up on our order forms. Even more will appear over the next couple of issues. The following is a summary of the current products schedule (as well as the minor releases since last issue):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Jun 91)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to P.L.S.: Baselined gismu list (old version)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Draft Proposed gismu Place Structure Revisions&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Review of Loglan 1 - Draft Long Version&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Aug 91) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: Updated rafsi list and lujvo-making guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Sep 91)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: JL15&lt;br /&gt;
: LK15&lt;br /&gt;
: Synopsis of Lojban Orthography, Phonology, and Morphology (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
: Attitudinal Paper (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
: What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (revised)&lt;br /&gt;
: What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (Esperanto version) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
: Revised Random Sentence Generator&lt;br /&gt;
: Revised lujvo-Making Program &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to P.L.S.:&lt;br /&gt;
: What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (revised)&lt;br /&gt;
: What is Lojban - la lojban. mo Brochure (Esperanto version)&lt;br /&gt;
: Overview of Lojban (1991 update) &lt;br /&gt;
: lujvo-making guide&lt;br /&gt;
: Updated rafsi list&lt;br /&gt;
: Re-baselined formal grammar&lt;br /&gt;
: E-BNF for re-baselined grammar&lt;br /&gt;
: Reply to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s review of Loglan 1 (orig. review 1969)&lt;br /&gt;
: Revised cmavo list&lt;br /&gt;
: Back issues of JL #1-13&lt;br /&gt;
: Back issues of LK #8-13&lt;br /&gt;
: Summaries of sci.lang discussions of Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
: The Lord&#039;s Prayer in Lojban (Revised 1991)&lt;br /&gt;
: Negation paper&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Mini-Lesson (Athelstan)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Oct 91)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: Re-baselined formal grammar&lt;br /&gt;
: E-BNF for re-baselined grammar&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Mini-Lesson (Athelstan)&lt;br /&gt;
: Revised cmavo list&lt;br /&gt;
: Rebaselined gismu list (updated) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
: LogFlash 1 - gismu (Revision 7)&lt;br /&gt;
: LogFlash 3 - cmavo (Revision 1) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to P.L.S.:&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Tense Paper (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban MEX Paper (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
: Attitudinal Paper (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
: Rebaselined gismu list (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
: Synopsis of Lojban Orthography, Phonology, and Morphology (updated)&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban and Machine Translation&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban and Esperanto - 16 Rules Comparison and Commentary&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban, Sapir-Whorf and Semiotics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Nov 91)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: JL16&lt;br /&gt;
: LK16 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Parser (PC and some UNIX versions) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to P.L.S.:&lt;br /&gt;
: New Textbook Lesson 1 Draft&lt;br /&gt;
: JL14&lt;br /&gt;
: LK14 &lt;br /&gt;
: le&#039;avla-making algorithm and examples (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Dec 91) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic postings to P.L.S.: &lt;br /&gt;
: selma&#039;o paper (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
: Selected list of Lojbanized names&lt;br /&gt;
: Revised Draft Lessons 1-6&lt;br /&gt;
: A comparison of Lojban and 1989 Institute Loglan (Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
: Glossary of Lojban/linguistic terminology&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(Jan 92) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: JL17&lt;br /&gt;
: LK17&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Learning Materials (Book)&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Reference Materials (Book)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Unscheduled But Planned&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed:&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Textbook&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Dictionary&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Pocket Reference&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Reader (Book)&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Phrase Book &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printed and Electronic:&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban gismu Etymologies &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software:&lt;br /&gt;
: Logflash 2 - rafsi (Revision 7)&lt;br /&gt;
: Hypercard LogFlash/Mac - (Revised and New versions)&lt;br /&gt;
: Lojban Adventure Game&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now that we&#039;ve shown the overall plan, we can explain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with all of our schedules, this one should be taken as a plan, not a promise. We are a volunteer organization and the schedule depends on the time availability of specific people. We also are short of money, and the scheduled publications depend heavily on significant numbers of you paying up your balances and putting in additional money to cover these new products.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The true goals are the items listed for next January - two books that will contain all of the teaching and reference materials we have put out, updated to the current language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the process of creating those books, all of our current products will be updated to reflect changes in the language or the way we teach it. As each is updated, there will be a heavy emphasis on making it available on the Planned Languages Server. This helps fulfill our obligation and commitment to place the language definition materials in the public domain, enables more people to see detailed design information about Lojban, and of course gives us some last minute feedback on these materials before binding them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the process of making these materials available, we will be reviewing them for current accuracy, and will make minor revisions and updates. Some of the printed products will thus not be generally distributed - we won&#039;t waste your money (and Bob&#039;s time) sending you minor corrections to a publication you may not be using. We will, however, send the latest version on new orders, and inform you in this column about other revisions you may want to know about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As noted in the discussion of electronic policy above, we will not be rewrite or specially format materials for electronic distribution. Tables and some example texts will suffer the worst; page numbering will be incorrect, and graphics (like Nora&#039;s cartoons) will not be presented at all. Some of these materials will thus be of marginal use; consensus is that different people judge usefulness by different standards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Software updates to all of our software nears completion. In the case of the lujvo-making program and random sentence generator, this is merely an update to accept new data files based on the latest language definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As described in JL14, LogFlash, our vocabulary teaching software, is undergoing a major overhaul. The new versions retain the teaching algorithm that has proven so effective, but adds colored screens, user flexibility, and a new learning mode designed to help Lojbanists quickly become familiar with the range of the gismu and cmavo without the time-consuming effort needed to master the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the major guideline for this schedule is the earliest practical publication of two books, let us look more closely at what they are and why we are putting them out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, these two books may be considered the prototype Lojban textbook and dictionary. The word &amp;quot;prototype&amp;quot; is used because Bob has long had an idea of what a Lojban textbook and dictionary SHOULD be, and these short term products will not be anything like the goal versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, people in the community are in need of books containing materials for studying Lojban, and reference materials needed to use Lojban. Even serious Lojbanists who work with the language a lot are becoming overwhelmed by the volume of materials and updates that la lojbangirz. has issued. Time is being wasted hunting through accumulated ju&#039;i lobypli issues and enclosures, and other materials you have obtained from us, looking for relevant material that has become a bit outdated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language design is now firm enough that we can create up-to-date versions of all important materials. By collecting these materials in bound volumes, we give people actively working with the language the tools you need to do so - all in one place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s work on the textbook revision has dragged on far too long, and the reasons are not going away. Shifting away from long-term targets to short-term goals, he has already picked up in productivity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The materials being revised and issued electronically (and occasionally in printed form) over the next 6 months will become the contents of the new books. The books will then be assembled out of the revised pieces and published, hopefully, around the beginning of next year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under current plans, the learning materials book will contain the 1st lesson of the revised textbook, Lojban mini-lessons by Athelstan and John Hodges, the 6 draft textbook lessons, the negation paper, the attitudinal paper, the old grammar summary, and selected short writings (mostly revised from JL articles) that teach the language. This will be published as a bound book, probably Velo-bound. Total page count will exceed 400 pages. Price will be around $25-$30, depending on the number of advance orders.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reference manual will contain revised versions of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* la lojban. mo brochure;&lt;br /&gt;
* Overview of Lojban;&lt;br /&gt;
* Machine grammar and E-BNF;&lt;br /&gt;
* Synopsis of phonology, morphology, and orthography;&lt;br /&gt;
* gismu list updated with new place structures, and Roget&#039;s Thesaurus codes, and multiple English synonyms where applicable (instead of the English keyword index used now);&lt;br /&gt;
* rafsi lists and lujvo-making guide;&lt;br /&gt;
* cmavo list with clearer definitions than the current one, possibly with sample sentences for each;&lt;br /&gt;
* a glossary of linguistic and Lojban jargon terms;&lt;br /&gt;
* a selected list of le&#039;avla borrowings and an algorithm to make more;&lt;br /&gt;
* a selected list of Lojbanized names;&lt;br /&gt;
* a set of cultural/national words for all countries in the United Nations, and selected other places;&lt;br /&gt;
* a selma&#039;o catalog describing the grammar of each word type, with many examples;&lt;br /&gt;
* as many sample lujvo as we have time to verify and space to include.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This book will also run about 300-400 pages and be bound. It will also probably cost around $25, depending on orders.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we have had an excellent record of recruiting Institute Loglanists who later find out about Lojban, la lojbangirz. is planning a &#039;guide to Lojban for Institute Loglanists&#039;, which may be incorporated in one of the two planned books. This will maximize people&#039;s use of the Institute&#039;s books that may have been purchased, since much of the material JCB has written applies to Lojban equally as well as the Institute version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once the books are out, Bob will then concentrate on producing refined versions while you concentrate on learning and using Lojban. Your efforts will then provide the hundreds of examples needed for the properly completed books.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only immediately available new product is an updated rafsi list, incorporating the changes listed later in this issue. Also, since people receiving the rafsi in the past have often had no idea how to use it, the section on lujvo-making from the Synopsis has been extracted and heavily revised, and will now be distributed with the rafsi list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto brochure - Considerable effort by Paul Francis O&#039;Sullivan, followed up by Mark Shoulson, Nick Nicholas, and David Twery, have led to a complete and up-to-date translation of the la lojban. mo brochure into Esperanto. In addition, Mark is formatting it for a typeset-quality master, and we should have printed copies within a few weeks. The brochure will also be posted electronically on the Planned Languages Server, and possibly on Compuserve.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Large numbers of our readers are Esperantists interested in Lojban. We encourage you to distribute copies of the Esperanto version to other Esperantists. This not only will spread knowledge of Lojban around the world, but it will enhance our position as an artificial language working with the Esperanto community, and not in competition with it. Indeed, we now see Esperanto as one of our primary languages for spreading information about Lojban to other countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We don&#039;t yet have other materials about Lojban in Esperanto, but we expect that this will change. As more and more Esperantists who also speak English join in with those who translated the brochure, our ability to produce Esperanto translations of our other materials improves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(We remind our readers that we also have a French translation of the brochure, although it has not been updated yet to reflect new policies and new materials, and is missing the newly added section on Lojban and linguistics research.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(We are constantly seeking volunteers to translate any of our materials into other languages. Please contact us if interested. Such volunteer work is the type which we qualify for credits in receiving materials when you cannot pay for them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Australian Lojban Society - la lojbangirz. has effectively gained an affiliate in Australia. Major, in Perth, and Nick Nicholas, in Melbourne, are attempting to establish and keep contact with all Lojbanists in Australia and New Zealand. In addition, because the cost of mailing overseas is so high, Major is serving as a focal point for la lojbangirz. mailings, and he then redistributes copies to all his correspondents. Nick is becoming one of our most skilled Lojbanists, and can answer most questions about the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This benefits la lojbangirz., because we lose money on most overseas mailings even with the 20% surcharge we require. It benefits those who are part of the new group, because it costs less for all of you: Major can produce copies for you and get them to you via local post much cheaper than we can. Major does ask for reimbursing of his expenses, or the group will not be able to grow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major and Nick both keep in communication with the rest of la lojbangirz. via electronic mail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major&#039;s address is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Box T1680 GPO Perth WA 6001 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;AUSTRALIA&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s address is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;17 Renowden St. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Cheltenham Victoria 3192 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;AUSTRALIA&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It doesn&#039;t take a lot of people to make this type of regional group work (there are 7 on our lists in this region of the world, and only 5 are thus far participating). We require that one person is willing to take responsibility to get materials to the others, and also take the financial risk of supporting those who don&#039;t pay for materials right away.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We welcome others who would like to try to similarly organize the people of your country and possibly neighboring countries. Already, we have a potential volunteer in Sweden, Christopher Arnold, who hopes to organize and recruit other Lojbanists to join the half dozen of you now in the Scandinavian countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Publicity - Bob and Nora&#039;s Trip ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob and Nora travelled to the San Francisco area in late April for a vacation and Lojban promotion trip. We had an opportunity to meet with several Lojbanists, though with a couple we were dogged by an inability to get schedules together. We regret those of you we missed. (One way not to be missed is to make sure we have your telephone number - sometimes plans get made in a big hurry. Specify if the number is unlisted or otherwise not for release to other Lojbanists.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob gave one lecture, to a group of students at St. Mary&#039;s College including Dr. Robert Gorsch&#039;s class in semiotics that has studied a small Lojban unit (see JL12 for more on this class), and gave two talks combined with mini-lessons to groups of Lojbanists. Dave Cortesi organized and publicized the primary meeting, held in Palo Alto. Donald Simpson organized the other at his house in Albany as a smaller event for those who couldn&#039;t get to the other meeting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A total of around 20 people showed up between the two meetings. Special pleasure was Scott (Layson) Burson&#039;s attendance at the Palo Alto meeting. Scott, now inactive in the Loglan community, did the final work to complete the first Loglan parser and the first version of the machine grammar accepted by the Institute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jay Stowell arranged to videotape the Palo-Alto mini-lesson. We have considered distributing copies of this, but the cost of videotape duplication is high enough that we want to use a better original (unedited videotapes have a &#039;home movie&#039; quality about them, and we saw no easy way to turn Jay&#039;s tape into a salable product). We are going to try to specially film a mini-lesson, hopefully later this year. Brad Lowry, who does professional video filming, has volunteered to film and edit this mini-lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some new people attended the Palo Alto meeting, and at least one person signed up as a level 3 Lojban student. All-in-all, the meeting was a success, though we always wish we could have done better at getting information to prospective attendees and helping more people to attend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Bob and Nora got together for a brunch with Scott Burson and Doug Landauer, another pioneer in Loglan machine grammar work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Legal - Last issue, we thought the legal battles between la lojbangirz. and the Loglan Institute had finally ended. Alas, the day after JL14 went to press, we heard from our lawyer that Jim Brown had informed him of his intent to appeal to the US Court of Appeals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At this writing, the appeal process is well underway. The Institute has filed its appeals brief and we have responded; we see little chance of the appeal succeeding. We won&#039;t go into the issues again at length - anyone interested can contact us for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are hoping for a ruling around the end of the year which firmly closes the door on the legal battle. Meanwhile, we are proceeding in accordance with the decision, using &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; to refer to the generic language of which &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; and what we have been calling &amp;quot;Institute Loglan&amp;quot; are versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB claims in the new Lognet that our initial challenge was &amp;quot;an harassment designed to strain our resources&amp;quot; and that our suit &amp;quot;is a timewaster once based on the premise that The Institute couldn&#039;t or wouldn&#039;t be able to respond to their attack.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our response: No! We hoped that the dispute could be settled by negotiation, but fought at this juncture because we knew our legal position, that &#039;Loglan&#039; cannot be a &#039;trademark&#039;, was sound, and was important to our making the Loglan project a success. Contrary to what JCB claims, our legal fight started when Jim Brown sent a letter threatening us with legal action (a copy of this letter was included in all issues of JL5); it is unfortunate for all of us that his position on threats was not then what it is today:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB reiterates his claims that Bob and Nora split off from the Institute &amp;quot;presumably to accommodate their own entrepreneurial interests&amp;quot;, using &amp;quot;the threat of schism to try to make us [change Institute business policies]&amp;quot;. He then insists that the two efforts &amp;quot;went their separate ways&amp;quot; because &amp;quot;threats seldom work on human beings&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our answer: No! Our purpose in starting Lojban was to put Loglan in the hands of the people who had been promised it, had paid for it, and had long assumed that they had the free right to use it as they choose, as &amp;quot;the human use of any language is, of course, in the public domain&amp;quot; (Jim Brown, again, but this time from a 1977 proposal).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB also claims that &amp;quot;there were no substantial intellectual differences between me and the proto-Lojbanists&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Response: We consider our commitment to intellectual freedom a substantial difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To stop these misstatements of our purpose and goals, and to ensure that there is no further doubt or misconception of our true purpose, we have modified our statements about Loglan and Lojban that appear on page 1 on each issue of ju&#039;i lobypli to more clearly indicate that the free use of Loglan as a human language is the sole reason for the split and our existence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, of the statements in the new issue of Lognet, those of editor Jim Smith are most ofensive, and are indeed libelous. Mr. Smith accuses la lojbangirz. with the false statements &amp;quot;LLG has been around for just a few years, but they are claiming all of JCB&#039;s work since 1955 as their own ... I will not give free advertising to a competitor whose primary technique is plagiarism and whose product lacks any hint of originality.&amp;quot; Mr. Smith has received a considerable set of our publications and knows that we claim no work of JCB&#039;s as our own. We have formally requested that Mr. Smith issue a retraction and public apology for these uncalled for and unacceptable remarks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Name of the language - We have been told that some supporters of Jim Brown are offended by our use of &amp;quot;Institute Loglan&amp;quot; for their version of the language. We have asked for an alternative other than the generic name that would satisfy them, but have received no response. We cannot agree to use the generic name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; only for their version - we need and use the term for our discussion of the evolutionary history of the language that includes Lojban, and in reaching out to people who have heard of Loglan through Robert Heinlein&#039;s books or the 1960 Scientific American article, and might not realize that Lojban implements the language described.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute Moves - Shortly before publication, the Institute moved back to San Diego (actually Jim Brown moved - the Institute proper will continue to be incorporated in Florida and hold annual meetings there).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Careers&amp;quot; Lives - Jim Brown reports that the board game Careers, which he invented, is again on the market. This additional income is bolstering his capability to finance the Institute. He indicates that some money will be earmarked for new Scientific American advertising, which now costs $3500 for one advertisement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CACM Paper - Since 1982, JCB and others have been writing and revising a paper on the Loglan machine grammar for intended publication in the Communications of the ACM, a noted computer journal, albeit not a refereed publication. This paper was finally submitted, and was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is considering its own paper on Loglan/Lojban&#039;s formal grammar, but not until next year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Declensions - Institute Loglan added an &#039;animal&#039; declension proposed over a year ago by Bob McIvor. The change adds a large number of gismu to that version of Loglan which differ from each other only in the final vowel. A broader proposal for a broader set of declensions, applying to all Institute Loglan gismu, was never formalized, and is no longer being considered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Publications - There has been no further word of the reincarnation of The Loglanist that was promised for late last year. Lognet has continued coming out quarterly to &#039;Members&#039; of the Institute. The May issue, indicated that the &#039;membership&#039; numbered 110. The August issue reported another 7 members were added.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bill Gober, in the new issue of Lognet, criticizes the Institute use of the &amp;quot;lexemic pause&amp;quot;. This is not a new criticism, and was one of the key language changes we made in designing Lojban. What is new is that this lengthy criticism was printed without rebuttal from JCB, who was less open-minded on the subject four years ago.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Steve Rice is the chief word-maker for the Institute now. He has made several dozen new words, both gismu and lujvo, and these have appeared in the last couple of issues. Some of these are good, but most have the traditional failings of tanru (metaphors) made up by the Institute, incorporating English idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;criminal-quality-take&amp;quot;, in Lojban: &amp;quot;zekri ckaji lebna&amp;quot; becomes the lujvo for &amp;quot;x1 decriminalizes x2&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;beyond-fast-record-use&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bancu sutra vreji pilno&amp;quot; is given to a lujvo meaning &amp;quot;x1 fast forwards past x2 on record/tape x3 on machine x4&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The word &amp;quot;vreji&amp;quot;, and its Institute equivalent, refer to any record of an event, not merely sound recordings.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== New Loglans? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora noticed in passing that Barbara Hambly&#039;s recent &#039;Star Trek&#039; novel, Ghost Walker, contains several references to a computer language called &#039;Loglan&#039;. She didn&#039;t note the page numbers, so you will have to read the book for yourself. Hambly&#039;s book thus joins two books by Robert Heinlein, one by Robert Rimmer, and one by JCB that mention a fictional Loglan language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new book, Loglan-88 is out, describing Loglan, but the language described has nothing to do with ours or the Institute&#039;s versions of the language. Professor Salwicki and others at the Polish Institute of Informatics has been developing a computer language for about 20 years that it calls &#039;Loglan&#039;. The newly published book reports that the language is an ALGOL derivative and has object-oriented programming features. The book is published in hardbound by Springer-Verlag; look under &#039;Loglan&#039; in Books in Print for more details.&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Features&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our Lojban text will start this issue with commented sentences, and then a commented letter. The sentences are offered by Rory Hinnen on behalf of a group of Lojbanists studying together in the Los Angeles area. (If you live in this area, and wish to join this group, please contact Rory at 818-796-8096 (home) or 818-354-8128 (work), or Gerald Koenig at 213-641-2905 (home) or 213-829-4156 (work). They are meeting irregularly, rotating the meeting place, because of the travel times, and offer to be very flexible in order to get new people to join in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the following, Rory&#039;s submitted sentences are followed by an indented actual translation if it differs from his intended translation. Corrected Lojban and any comments from Bob LeChevalier are also indented.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le cmalu mlatu crane le bardu gerku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the small-cat in-front-of thing, the large-dog, ... [an incomplete sentence with no selbri]&lt;br /&gt;
: The small cat is in front of the large dog&lt;br /&gt;
: le cmalu mlatu cu crane le barda gerku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ti poi gerku cu prami le mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This which dogs, loves the cat. [This dog loves the cat.]&lt;br /&gt;
: The dog loves the cat.&lt;br /&gt;
: le gerku cu prami le mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; should be used only when pointing. The other and more common way to say &amp;quot;this dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;le vi gerku&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ma prami le mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;What loves the cat?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ma se prami le mlatu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;What does the cat love?&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: Excellent!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi cadzu vi le srasu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I walk at the grass.&lt;br /&gt;
: I walk on the grass. &lt;br /&gt;
: mi cadzu le srasu&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: The correction uses the Lesson 4a revised place structure of &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot;, which specifies &amp;quot;on surface ...&amp;quot; Your version should be understandable, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi cadzu vi le srasu le ckule le ru&#039;azda le klaji be va le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I walk on the grass to school from home via the street near the building.&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: Using the baseline gismu list place structure of &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot;, this looks fine. With the Lesson 4A change, just replace &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;dzukla&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;walkingly-go&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do cadzu mo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are a walking _____.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;You are walkingly _____ing.&lt;br /&gt;
: Where are you walking to?&lt;br /&gt;
: do cadzu ma&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: &amp;quot;cadzu mo&amp;quot; is a tanru. See above regarding &amp;quot;dzukla&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ckule se cadzu mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The school-walking_destination, I, ...&lt;br /&gt;
: To school I&#039;m walking.&lt;br /&gt;
: le ckule cu se cadzu mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*do cadzu fi mo [Ungrammatical - no translation possible.]&lt;br /&gt;
: Where are you walking from?&lt;br /&gt;
: do cadzu fi ma&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ru&#039;azda te cadzu mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The assuming-nest type of walked-from thing, me, ...&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;m walking from home. [Actually: &amp;quot;From home, walk I&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
: le re&#039;azda cu te cadzu fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;m not sure what the lujvo is intended to mean, unless it is a typo for &amp;quot;re&#039;azda&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;human-nest&amp;quot;), which I assumed in the correction. &amp;quot;te&amp;quot; switches the x1 and x3 places, leaving x2 unchanged.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do gasnu ma?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;What are you doing? [You do what?]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi gasnu lenu cilre la Lojban. .i do gasnu ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;m doing the event of learning Lojban. What are you doing?&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: .i&#039;e xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi na cilre la Lojban. .i mi zutse le stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;m not learning Lojban. I&#039;m sitting in the chair.&lt;br /&gt;
: Rory: (Jim [Carter] had a lot of problems with the last little exchange. He said I was taking for granted the replication of the actor &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;. [in the &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; clause])&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: He&#039;s right in that the x1 place of &amp;quot;cilre&amp;quot; was elliptically unspecified. In natural usage, &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; would be the obvious value, but formally the translation is: &amp;quot;I&#039;m doing the event of ... learning Lojban. What are you doing?&amp;quot;. The most frequent assumption in the pattern [x1 broda &amp;lt;lenu ... brode&amp;gt;] is to assume that the x1 is replicated in the ellipsis. But if the listener is unsure, it/she/he can always ask: &amp;quot;.i ma cilre la Lojban&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko catlu .i le crino nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Look! The green man ...&lt;br /&gt;
: Look! Green man! &lt;br /&gt;
: ko catlu .i crino nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
: Rory: (Jim made me put the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; in there, and then convinced me he was right.)&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: He&#039;s wrong. The &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; made it an incomplete sentence, a bare sumti, leaving the listener hanging for the rest of the sentence (.oi). There is no implicit or explicit selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko sisti .i mi na catlu le crino nanmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Cease! I don&#039;t look at the green man.&lt;br /&gt;
: Rory: We argued for a while &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; in the above sentence, but we eventually came to the conclusion that it didn&#039;t matter because of the negation. But without negation, I should go with &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
: Bob: Either could be correct with or without a negation. &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; claims that it really was a green man, rather than possibly a picture of one. Usually English speakers use &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; for indefinites. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is definite - you DO have a specific one in mind, but it might only be being described as a man for convenience of conversation. In this context, &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; would normally be taken as referring to the green man of the previous observative, since that is the logical &#039;thing described&#039; that the speaker could expect the listener to assume.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that I can&#039;t be sure of the intended meaning of this sentence for another reason, given the context. What is supposed to be &amp;quot;ceased&amp;quot;, the discussion, talking about the green man, or something else? The second sentence also loses me, although it is quite grammatical. Is it a mistake for &amp;quot;I don&#039;t see ...&amp;quot;, or is it missing the attitudinal &amp;quot;.aunai&amp;quot; (I don&#039;t want!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Is Lojban Scientifically Interesting? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David Pautler (pautler@ils.nwu.edu), challenged the scientific relevance of artificial languages. The following is lojbab&#039;s (Bob LeChevalier&#039;s) response.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I did not say that ALs have no good use. I said there&#039;s nothing particularly interesting about them (from a scientific viewpoint ...) because they&#039;re artificial. Some interesting sociological behaviors may appear if these languages come into widespread use, perhaps even some interesting linguistic phenomena if enough spontaneous innovation occurs (although AL enthusiasts seem to want to prevent this). But there certainly doesn&#039;t appear to be anything interesting about them now, because AL enthusiasts in this group prefer to argue over which of several (truly arbitrary) conventions are &amp;quot;better&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am willing to admit I am wrong about all this if some of you AL enthusiasts can give the rest of us some good reasons why ALs are scientifically interesting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and later added in clarification:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I still believe that knowing the design principles of any system beforehand makes a scientific study of those principles silly...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab&#039;s response:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The added comment definitely clarifies the problem, especially since it removes the loaded topic &#039;AL&#039; from the question. I will answer primarily from the standpoint of Lojban, though some of my points are applicable to Esperanto and other ALs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David is taking a very limited view of science, to presume that the design principles of a system are the only interesting thing about that system to a scientist. I can see a few other possibilities:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a) in a highly complex system (which even an AL is), the interaction of the design features displays properties that are &#039;more than the sum of the parts&#039;. Thus it is possible that all language is merely a system comprised of a bunch of neurons releasing neurotransmitters. Biochemistry may eventually devise a complete explanation for the neuronic process (including genetic components), and we may then say we &amp;quot;know the design principles of the system&amp;quot;. But we won&#039;t know the system, because the complexity of those neuronic interactions is so great that knowing the pieces does not give a total understanding of the system. This indeed may be what defines the concept of &#039;system&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Knowing all the prescribed rules of an AL does not tell you how that AL is used communicatively, and I don&#039;t mean in the sociological sense. A sample question: Given multiple ways of communicating the same idea, do users of the language choose particular forms over others, and why? This is similar to a question that presumably is commonly asked about natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can come up with many other sample questions of science that can be applied to the system of an AL that are not compromised by &#039;knowing the design&#039;, but let&#039;s move on. (Feel free to ask, though). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b) A simpler system, which can be more fully understood, may serve as an excellent model for a less understood, more complex system. Thus the simpler system could be examined for parallels to hypotheses about the more complex system. Examination of the simpler system may suggest properties to look for in the more complex system, or it may even suggest hypotheses that can be tested in the more complex system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A &#039;hot&#039; topic in parts of the Lojban community is whether the language has or should have, an underlying semantic theory. If one exists, it is certainly not as developed or prescribed as the syntactic design and theory. Filtering out syntactic ambiguity allows a more direct examination of semantic ambiguities, including the properties of modification and restriction, resolution of anaphora, and identification of ellipses. Any semantic theories proposed for natural language can be looked at in terms of semantic usage in the simpler Lojban system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a &#039;model of a natural language&#039;, it seems likely that any theory NOT true of Lojban is at least suspicious with regard to natural language, thus allowing partial verification of theories (not complete - I would never say that ALs should be studied to the exclusion of natural languages, but rather in relation to them). If the theory is true of natural language, then you have found evidence that Lojban is in some way unnatural. Then you try to explain which of the (fully-known) design features of Lojban causes this unnaturalness. By counterexample that design feature is not a feature of natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You&#039;ve learned something about natural language by studying an artificial one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As another example, pragmatic effects can be more easily recognized in the simpler Lojban system, and can be clearly identified as pragmatic. Thus, insights about pragmatic effects may be more visible in Lojban, insights that would then be tested in the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
c) Another aspect of a simple system is that it is easier to perform experiments on than a more complex system. There are fewer variables, and if the system is &#039;designed&#039;, some things that are variables in complex systems are in effect tunable constants in the simple, carefully-designed system. You can then rerun the experiment with minor changes to explore the effects of those variables.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Experimental linguistics of this sort is a virtually unthinkable possibility with the natural languages. The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is not really testable in the natural languages since we can&#039;t control any variables, and we don&#039;t know what things about a language might be determining to a culture. Sapir-Whorf may be more testable when you can reduce or even control the variables with a language like Lojban. Let me be specific:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is a predicate language, with no nouns, verbs, or adjectives. What are the linguistic (communicative) properties of such a system? The answer has been partially explored through symbolic logic. But do people thinking linguistically in any way mimic the processes of formal logic? What effects would a formal-logic-based language have on those linguistic thinking processes. Is the resulting language susceptible to the same analysis as natural language in terms of the various formal systems that have been developed by linguists over the past few decades?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given that natural language processing in computers usually involves converting natural language to some kind of predicate form in which deductions can be made, the validity of predicate logic as a tool for such analysis is already accepted. But how to you identify the logical deductions that a human being makes from a natural language statement. If thinking in Lojban, the human is already thinking using predicate logic structures; thus the deduction process is much more plain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me pose an experiment. Take even a few children during the critical period of language learning and teach them this artificial language (at the same time as they learn their traditional language). Do they become truly bilingual? If they are as fluently communicative in the AL as they are in their natural language, then the AL is a suitable linguistic model. Then, ANY theory of language that cannot extend to cover the features of the AL is inadequate. You could perform a series of experiments with ever more exotic artificial languages (obviously you need new speakers for each test). Sooner or later, either the model breaks and the AL is no longer acquirable by children and/or communicative as a language, or the theory breaks, and you&#039;ve learned where to look for improvements in the theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With only natural languages, you have to devise theories based on the available data, and then go look in other natural languages for confirmation or refutation. But this isn&#039;t the optimal kind of experimentation because you really cannot plan the experiment or control the variables (the other language may have the same apparent feature through a totally different process that you won&#039;t recognize because you aren&#039;t looking for it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A language like Lojban is such an ideal test bed for experimentation, because it is flexible; you can evolve slightly different versions of the language very easily by simply changing some features. Forbid a given construct in the prescription, and do not teach it to a child. Does the child develop that construct anyway by analogy to other languages known, or does the child successfully adapt to whatever other processes you&#039;ve designed into the language instead of the construct. It seems that all manner of linguistic universals could be investigated in this way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My remaining points are not necessarily specific to the &#039;system&#039; nature of a language, but deal with David&#039;s original question on whether artificial languages are scientifically interesting. In general they rely on the assumption argued above that a model of a system is valuable for learning about the system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
d) I&#039;ve mentioned only child learning as revealing the essential nature of language, because this is what many linguists concentrate on. But there is also the important applied linguistics problems of teaching foreign languages. It is much easier to test a method or theory of vocabulary teaching/learning with an artificial language than with a natural language; I don&#039;t think the statement that ALs are more quickly (I didn&#039;t say easily - which is a subjective question) learned then NLs is particularly controversial; there have been experiments verifying this in the literature for decades.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The pragmatic problems of language learning are alone justification into researching using ALs. But ALs may provide the solution as well as the means of testing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems to be well accepted that in learning a second language and then learning a third, you learn the third MUCH more quickly than the second. The example I&#039;ve heard is this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assume that it takes 4 years to learn French and then 2 to learn German thereafter; and vice versa. Let us assume that you can learn an artificial language in 1 year to a comparable degree as you can learn French.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then you can learn the AL and German in 3 years instead of 4, and all three languages in 5 years instead of 6. This gains a year EVEN IF YOU NEVER AGAIN USE THE AL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t claim this example as a fact - it should be easily testable in a controlled experiment, and this seems much more scientific than arguments about what ALs and NLs are &#039;easier to learn&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
e) Lojban has one feature designed to explore a less-understood aspect of language - the expression of emotion. Lojban allows expressive communication of emotions in words without suprasegmentals (this presumably unlike all natural languages, but not entirely, as many languages have a limited set of indicators of attitude in the form of interjections and some discursive function words e.g. &#039;but&#039;). Can human beings manipulate the symbols of emotion in the same way they manipulate the comparable symbols of non-emotional expression? There is a whole range of experimental questions raised by this design element, probably the most &#039;unnatural&#039; element of Lojban&#039;s design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
f) The latter points to the one other aspect of a well-designed artificial language of scientific interest and value to linguistics - as a tool of analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I present an example, based on the 1991 Scientific American Library book The Science of Words, by George A. Miller of Princeton.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the book, a picture caption notes that Nootka (a Pacific Northwest language) has the single word: &amp;quot;inikwihl&#039;minik&#039;isit&amp;quot; meaning the equivalent of the entire English sentence &amp;quot;Several small fires were burning in the house.&amp;quot; I won&#039;t presume to know any more about Nootka than I&#039;ve just told you, but in Lojban, I can express that sentence paralleling the English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| so&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
| cmalu&lt;br /&gt;
| fagri&lt;br /&gt;
| puca&lt;br /&gt;
| jelca&lt;br /&gt;
| vine&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
| le &lt;br /&gt;
| prezda&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Many&lt;br /&gt;
| small&lt;br /&gt;
| fires&lt;br /&gt;
| were-then&lt;br /&gt;
| burning&lt;br /&gt;
| at-within&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| person-nest.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and analytically as a single word (though not with the same structure as Nootka)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
prezdane&#039;ikemcmafagyso&#039;ikemprun unje&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
person-house-inside-type_of-small-fire-many_some-type_of-previous-burning&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Yes, I can say it!)&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, according to Miller, the Nootka breaks down as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| -inikw&lt;br /&gt;
| -ihl&lt;br /&gt;
| -&#039;minih&lt;br /&gt;
| -&#039;is&lt;br /&gt;
| -it &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fire/burn&lt;br /&gt;
| in-the-house&lt;br /&gt;
| plural&lt;br /&gt;
| diminutive&lt;br /&gt;
| past-tense&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This order is also expressible in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fagykemprezdanerso&#039;icmapru &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fire-type_of-person-nest- inside-many_some-small- past_thing/event&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t know which of the two orders more accurately conveys how the Nootka speaker thinks of the concept expressed by the word, or whether others would be better still.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban in either case more accurately tracks the semantics of the Nootka, demonstrating the inadequacy of the English - the actual word as broken out did not require two separate particles for fire and burn as did the English equivalent, and the English translation used the more complicated tense &amp;quot;were-burning&amp;quot; instead of the simpler, and presumably more accurate &amp;quot;burnt&amp;quot;. (I&#039;ll plainly admit that I&#039;m relying on the given explanations by Miller, which are in English, but it seems clear that in translating the word-sentence into English there is a considerable ambiguity introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t claim that Lojban can express everything in the natural form of any language. Lojban has a less-marked syntactic word-order, and expressing other orders requires marking particles that would not be found in the source language. Thus there is a tradeoff between semantic representation and syntactic representation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, I think a convincing case can be made that, as a predicate language, Lojban is a much more effective tool at studying both the forms and semantics of other languages than is English, which has its own cultural, syntactic and semantic complexities to gum up the analysis. This is especially true for analysis by non-native English speaking linguists - if there is any place where there is a justification for an international, minimal-culture language, it is when linguists from different native language backgrounds try to perform and communicate their linguistic analyses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
g) There is also the &#039;other&#039; tool aspect of an artificial language, in computer and artificial intelligence (AI) applications. I mentioned the similarity in c) above between Lojban and the internal representations used in natural language processing by computers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A predicate language like Lojban should be especially amenable to AI processes - the programmers are familiar with predicate language expression and manipulation, and often store the data in predicate form internally for manipulation. With Lojban, such storage becomes a fairly trivial process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Lojban is proven by experiment (per above) to have the systemic properties of a natural language, and is easier to implement in computational linguistics research problems, it serves as a tool to bridge those two disciplines, leading to more rapid and effective natural language processing. But only if it is tried. Even if it proves less than ideal, I have little doubt that study of natural language using computational linguistic techniques and a Lojban-based tool will be productive in ways not possible with any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(In effect, this argument is the same as f), except that instead of two different-naturallanguage speakers trying to communicate about language, you have a human and a computer, who obviously speak different native languages, trying to communicate.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
h) A highly prescribed language is an ideal test bed for examining the processes of language evolution. In the case of an AL like Lojban, as the speaking community in each culture grows, you can observe how the language creolizes in contact with those other languages. Because of the speed of learning, artificial languages should tend to show effects more quickly (by being mastered to a communicative level more quickly). Anecdotal evidence about Esperanto supports this idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does this mean that the conclusions are absolutely valid for natural language evolutionary processes? I don&#039;t claim so. But again, we are performing experiments with a model, somewhat idealized, of a natural language. Unlike a paper-theoretic model (as all linguistic theories must inherently be), this is a model that can be experimented with using live speakers. Provided that we understand the model as it evolves, that understanding much more approximates an understanding of natural language as time goes on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i) The large majority of languages have some degree, more or less, of prescription. In addition, some &#039;natural&#039; languages, like modern Hebrew, formal Swahili, and some standardized dialects (e.g. Mandarin, which has been noted as being related to but not identical to the Beijing dialect), are not all that far from being true artificial languages, but are much more interesting to linguists. A predominantly prescribed language would seem an especially effective tool for studying the effects of prescription on language development and use (again, I refer to linguistic and not sociological effects).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Such studies may aid in first-language education as well as second-language acquisition. They may also aid in analyzing the development of different registers (usages based on social class and situation) of a single language: such registers can be interpreted as reactions to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
prescriptive environments that constrain language use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these scientific applications of Lojban inherently requires a large fluent body of speakers, or any solely-native speaker of that tongue. If any of the less scientific applications of Lojban serve to justify it developing such a speaker base, the nature of Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a model will change. New applications, as yet not really predictable, will turn up, aided by our no doubt increased understanding of language. But the model, even if well understood, no longer is as simple, and new Loglans and other experimental linguistic tools, all artificial languages, will be developed to take the next step.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have hopefully given a bit of food for thought, yet with only a few hours preparation. I also only thought about this as somewhat an outsider to the profession of linguistics. With a different point-of-view others should be able to find many more questions of scientific interest using an AL like Lojban either as a model, an experimental test bed, or a tool. And if even a small fraction of these ideas are useful, then ALs have a valid scientific role in linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Summary of gismu/rafsi Official Changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New gismu as approved in June 1990 (see JL13):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;, changing the keyword for &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;full day&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;dinri&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;, as distinct from &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, to parallel with &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;vrude&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;citrus&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;nimre&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cabbage&amp;quot;, to include broccoli, cauliflower, and perhaps lettuce - &amp;quot;kobli&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;hemp&amp;quot;, to include natural rope, burlap, marijuana, and hashish - &amp;quot;marna&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;protein&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;lanbi&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;buckwheat&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;xruba&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cassava&amp;quot;, to include taro and yam, and other starchy roots (not tubers) - &amp;quot;samcu&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;sorghum&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;sorgu&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
#&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;magenta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cyan&amp;quot; as the missing two subtractive primary colors - &amp;quot;nukni&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;cicna&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;North America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot;, referring to the U.S. - &amp;quot;bemro&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;South America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;xispo&amp;quot;, referring to Latin America - &amp;quot;ketco&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;Antarctica&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;dzipo&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;glimmering&amp;quot; to cover the concepts of morning and evening twilight - &amp;quot;murse&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; in parallel to a revised meaning of &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;jdika&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add a different gismu to be the inverse of &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;rorci&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;elder/ancestor&amp;quot; for family members of generations preceding the parents (including non-direct line, the relationship is more social/ethnic than biological). Gender would be added via tanru, as would explicit biological lineage. The conversion would give &amp;quot;descendant&amp;quot; as well as &amp;quot;grandkids&amp;quot; in the broadest sense - &amp;quot;dzena&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;aunt/uncle/godparent&amp;quot; for non-lineal (socio-ethnic) family members of the parental generation. The conversion would give &amp;quot;niece/nephew&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;famti&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cousin&amp;quot; for non-immediate (socio-ethnic) family members of the same generation. The generalized family relationship is still expressed by &amp;quot;lanzu&amp;quot;, which can be modified via tanru - &amp;quot;tamne&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following shows the new gismu actually made, which may be added to your gismu lists.             &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;                                 &lt;br /&gt;
gismu   rafsi           keyword  clue /   synonyms                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
bemro   bem             North    American                         berti    merko                            &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 reflects North American     culture/nationality/geography  in aspect x2                   &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
cicna                   cyan     /       turquoise                        &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is cyan/turquoise/green-blue&lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
dinri                   daytime  /       daylight                         &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a daytime of day x2 at   location x3                    &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
dzena       dze         elder    /       grandparent, ancestor            &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is an elder/ancestor of x2  by bond/tie/ degree x3         &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
dzipo   zip dzi zi&#039;o             Antarctican                      dzucipni (penguin?)                       &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 reflects Antarctican        culture/nationality/ geography in aspect x2                   &lt;br /&gt;
famti                   aunt or  uncle                            /       godparent                        &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is an aunt/uncle of x2 by   bond/tie x3                    &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
jdika                   decrease / reduce&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is decreased/reduced in     property x2 by amount x3       &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
ketco   ket tco         South American Quechua&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 reflects South American culture/nationality/geography in aspect x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kobli                   cabbage cole- / cauli-, broccoli, kale, kraut&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of cabbage/leafy vegetable of species/strain x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lanbi                   protein albumin / amino&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of protein of type x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
marna                   hemp marijuana / jute, cannabis&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of hemp/marijuana/jute of species/strain x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
murse glimmering / twilight, dawn, penumbra&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a twilight/dawn of day x2 at location x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
nimre       mre         citrus lime / lemon, citric&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of citrus (fruit, tree, etc.) of species/strain x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
nukni   nuk             magenta fuchsin / fuchsia&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is magenta/fuchsia/red-blue&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rorci   ror             procreate / engender, sire, dam, beget&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 engenders/procreates/begets x2 with coparent x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
samcu                   cassava / taro, manioc, tapioca, yam     &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of            cassava/taro/manioc/tapioca/yam (starchy root) of              species/strain x2              &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
sorgu   sog             sorghum  &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of sorghum of species/strain x2              &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
tamne                   cousin   &lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a cousin of x2 by        bond/tie x3                    &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
vrude   vud     vu&#039;e    virtue   x1 is virtuous by standard x2  &lt;br /&gt;
                                 &lt;br /&gt;
xruba   xub             buckwheat rhubarb / sorrel grass&lt;br /&gt;
  x1 is a quantity of buckwheat/rhubarb/sorrel grass of species/strain x2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are rafsi changes needed for the above changes.  In both cases, these are words that had been given an extra rafsi &amp;quot;because it was there&amp;quot;, not because it was needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
dotco   dot     do&#039;o German&lt;br /&gt;
delete rafsi tco&lt;br /&gt;
merli   mel     mei  measure&lt;br /&gt;
delete rafsi mre&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is a previously approved change to the gismu baseline.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ckamu-               less&lt;br /&gt;
deleted, replaced by:&lt;br /&gt;
mleca   mec     me&#039;a less&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are previously approved changes to the gismu keyword baseline.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mukti   muk     mu&#039;i    motive&lt;br /&gt;
                        was purpose&lt;br /&gt;
djedi   ded dje dei     full day&lt;br /&gt;
                        was day&lt;br /&gt;
gismu   gim     gi&#039;u    root word&lt;br /&gt;
                        was primitive&lt;br /&gt;
tanru                   phrase compound&lt;br /&gt;
                        was metaphor&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo   luv jvo         affix compound&lt;br /&gt;
                        was cpd predicate&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several cmavo were newly assigned rafsi, but in some cases where a rafsi might be useful, there was no rafsi even remotely similar to the cmavo available. The following lujvo-making conventions are proposed as solutions for these cmavo used in lujvo. Note that there may be lujvo with these patterns that are not convention-based cu&#039;o preceded by number rafsi is a probability rather than modification fi&#039;u with number rafsi is interpreted as fraction rather than modification &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 ka&#039;e        handled by kakne  &lt;br /&gt;
 li&#039;i        lifrysucty-  in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 mu&#039;e        mulnynun-    in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 pu&#039;u        prucynun-    in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 si&#039;o        sidbysucty-  in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;u        sucty-       in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 za&#039;i        zastynun-    in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
 zu&#039;o        zuktynun-    in first position             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                  &lt;br /&gt;
The following is then a summary of ALL changes to the rafsi list since the gismu baseline list was published. You may wish to manually update your gismu lists and rafsi lists. New lists will be published by the end of the year.&lt;br /&gt;
                                  &lt;br /&gt;
 ( - after a rafsi means the rafsi was deassigned for reuse.)       &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;                                  &lt;br /&gt;
 CVC CCV CVV     cmavo/gismu      &lt;br /&gt;
                                  &lt;br /&gt;
         ce&#039;o    ce&#039;o             &lt;br /&gt;
         co&#039;e    co&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         fo&#039;a-   forca (retains for, fro)            &lt;br /&gt;
         fo&#039;a    fo&#039;a             &lt;br /&gt;
         fo&#039;e    fo&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         fo&#039;i    fo&#039;i             &lt;br /&gt;
         ke&#039;e    ke&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         le&#039;e    le&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         lo&#039;e    lo&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         me&#039;a    mleca            &lt;br /&gt;
         no&#039;e    no&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         nu&#039;o    nu&#039;o             &lt;br /&gt;
         to&#039;e    to&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         ve&#039;e    ve&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         vu&#039;e    vrude            &lt;br /&gt;
         za&#039;o    za&#039;o             &lt;br /&gt;
         ze&#039;e    ze&#039;e             &lt;br /&gt;
         ze&#039;o    ze&#039;o             &lt;br /&gt;
         zi&#039;o    dzipo            &lt;br /&gt;
         zo&#039;a    zo&#039;a             &lt;br /&gt;
         zo&#039;i    zo&#039;i             &lt;br /&gt;
     dze         dzena            &lt;br /&gt;
     dzi         dzipo&lt;br /&gt;
     mre         nimre&lt;br /&gt;
     mre-        merli&lt;br /&gt;
     tco         ketco&lt;br /&gt;
     tco-        dotco&lt;br /&gt;
bem              bemro&lt;br /&gt;
biz              bi&#039;o or bi&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
caz              ca&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
caz-             cadzu (retains dzu)&lt;br /&gt;
cel              ce&lt;br /&gt;
cez              ce&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
daz              da&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
dum              du&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
joz              jo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
kep              ke&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
ket              ketco&lt;br /&gt;
kuz              ku&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
mec              mleca&lt;br /&gt;
mem              mei&lt;br /&gt;
mom              moi&lt;br /&gt;
nal              na&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
nal-             na&lt;br /&gt;
nar              na&lt;br /&gt;
nuk              nukni&lt;br /&gt;
pez              pe&#039;a  (figurative lujvo - totally unpredictable place structure)&lt;br /&gt;
piv              pi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
piz              pi&lt;br /&gt;
puz              pu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
ror              rorci&lt;br /&gt;
rov              roi&lt;br /&gt;
sog              sorgu&lt;br /&gt;
soj              so&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
sop              so&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
sor              so&#039;i  (also has &amp;quot;so&#039;i&amp;quot; added this one is for making a series)&lt;br /&gt;
sor-             skori (retains sko, ko&#039;i)&lt;br /&gt;
sos              so&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
sot              so&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
vud              vrude&lt;br /&gt;
xub              xruba&lt;br /&gt;
zip              dzipo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I received a question about the listing in the rafsi change summary about conventions for some abstractions.  So let me explain further.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the example, we will use &amp;quot;salci&amp;quot;, which has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 celebrates x2 by doing/being x3&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;nu salci&amp;quot; is an abstraction selbri: &amp;quot;x1 is the event of (x1S celebrates x2S by doing x3S)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To make this into a lujvo, we have reserved a rafsi for &#039;nu&#039;, and in this case the lujvo-making algorithm gives &amp;quot;nunsalci&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;x1 is the celebration-event of x2 celebrating x3 by doing x4&amp;quot;. All we do is renumber the places.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have rafsi reserved for &#039;ka&#039;, &#039;ni&#039;, and &#039;jei&#039; among the abstractors. We do not have rafsi for the four Aristotelian subcategories of &#039;nu&#039; events: &#039;states&#039;, &#039;activities&#039;, &#039;processes&#039;, and &#039;achievements&#039;. Nor do we have rafsi for other members of NU, including the idea abstractor &amp;quot;si&#039;o&amp;quot;, the experience abstractor &amp;quot;li&#039;i&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The convention described says that for those members of NU that do not have rafsi, we will use a combination of rafsi for related gismu in specific positions (generally at the beginning of the lujvo) to indicate the abstraction. We don&#039;t assume that all lujvo in that form will be representing the abstraction since there may be more obvious non-abstraction meanings. The convention however tells you how to make a lujvo that will at least suggest the abstraction rather than force you to try to guess randomly how to do so. In general, the convention is close to the most obvious interpretation anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for nunsalci, the places of the unabstracted selbri are renumbered shifted by 1. For a couple of abstractors (ni and jei come to mind) with more than one place in the abstraction selbri, the trailing places are added to the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This convention is not part of any baseline, and is quite open for your comments. Indeed, we&#039;d like to see some people try making lujvo using them and using them in example sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Coranth D&#039;Gryphon sent me a letter - an excellent beginning writing effort, which I will share with all of you since it brings out some neat points. I&#039;m sure Coranth&#039;s ego will stand public correction, and all-in-all he did an outstanding effort even if I&#039;ve commented it to death. I encourage beginning people to write to each other in Lojban, preferably with English translation enclosed. Send your first writing to me (Bob) at the la lojbangirz. address, and I&#039;ll match you with someone based on your skill level (and possibly your interests). A suggestion for a first letter is either a list of sentences or a self-description. There is NO BETTER WAY to learn the language than to see how others misunderstand your attempts to express in the language. And if communication actually occurs, you&#039;ve achieved the purpose of language, which is more important than being correct. If you can figure out most of what Coranth was TRYING to say on the following (there are errors and even typo-nonexistent words that can make some parts virtually impossible to a novice), you are ready.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is Coranth&#039;s uncorrected original text and his translation. My comments follow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi doi lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo ckule cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i di&#039;u cu pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i re le ci tardi cu djica troci le nu la Lojban cu se djuno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ji&#039;a .i&#039;ou&#039;anai mi pu skami ciska piso&#039;i le ti fasnu tebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi&#039;u pu fonxa tavla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la lojbo gerna cu frili mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le lojbo valsi na go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cu troci le nu la&#039;edi&#039;u cu se djuno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .au.a&#039;o mi baze&#039;e djuno roru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i paupei la logflac. cu kakne le sidju di&#039;e .inaja jei di&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i pe&#039;u.e&#039;o ko cu tavla mi le pu&#039;u cpacu ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ju&#039;e ki&#039;e co&#039;o lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la korant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi Bob&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban-school is good.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;2 of the 3 students desire-ingly try-to-attain the-state-of Lojban being-known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I regret/sorrow-at I have-before not computer-written much-of these events to-you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ditto have-before not telephone-talked.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban grammar is easy for me.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The-set-of Lojban words is not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I try-to-attain the-state-of them-previous being-known.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I hope-desire-that I will-after-some-time know them-all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Question-opinion : Logflash is-able-to help?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The-following only-if the-previous-sentence is-true:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Request-please : you (imper) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I conclude. thanks. bye.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Coranth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Commentary. The unindented text and translation are Coranth&#039;s versions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi doi lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hi Bob&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo ckule cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The Lojban-school is good.&lt;br /&gt;
: Both excellent. [Coranth, by the way was attempting to tutor some students in Lojban in the Boston area, which is another group that is ripe for group study as the LA people are doing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;u cu pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
: You translated the Lojban to English correctly, but the English is ambiguous. A more exact English translation of your sentence is:&lt;br /&gt;
: The last sentence pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
: Now you have a right to be pleased about the last sentence: it was well done. But I suspect that you were trying to express that the state of affairs described by the last sentence is what pleased you, in which case you wanted to say:&lt;br /&gt;
: .i la&#039;edi&#039;u [cu] pluka mi.&lt;br /&gt;
: It is probably useful to memorize &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; as a single word; you will use it in an English translation far more often than &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; alone, unless you are writing essays about language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i re le ci tardi cu djica troci le nu la Lojban cu se djuno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;2 of the 3 students desire-ingly try-to-attain the-state-of Lojban being-known&lt;br /&gt;
: Except &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;tardi&amp;quot;, excellent. I explicitly check or have Nora check all of my writings before sending them out to make sure I don&#039;t make word mistakes. Until you master the vocabulary, you should do an extra check whenever possible. Of course, though, I would rather you write Lojban without checking the words, than not write Lojban at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ji&#039;a .i&#039;ou&#039;anai mi pu skami ciska piso&#039;i le ti fasnu tebe&#039;i do &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I regret/sorrow-at I have-before not computer-written much-of these events to-you.&lt;br /&gt;
: A great teaching sentence. It was grammatical and I understood what you intended, but you made lots of little errors.&lt;br /&gt;
: You left out translating the &amp;quot;ji&#039;a&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;additionally&amp;quot;), and I&#039;m not sure how it applies; if you are trying to non-specifically link this sentence to the previous one &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; is a logical joining, and &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; is the simple run-on sentence &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
: The attitudinal &amp;quot;appreciation+loss&amp;quot; does not convey to me your English - what did you &amp;quot;lose&amp;quot;; it sounds like the type of emotion one might feel when a trusted and valued employee left the company, or maybe what you might say in a letter of resignation. Possibilities are the simple &amp;quot;.u&#039;u&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;.i&#039;anaise&#039;i&amp;quot; (or attaching the &amp;quot;.i&#039;anai&amp;quot; differently: &amp;quot;mi .i&#039;anai pu ...&amp;quot; which means roughly: &amp;quot;I, damn me, previously ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: Your English sentence is a negation - you have NOT PREVIOUSLY written much-of these events, but this negation is not in the sentence. You could do so with &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;, but I would prefer the more exact &amp;quot;punai&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;ciska&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;inscribe&amp;quot;; you clearly noticed that its place structure wasn&#039;t that useful and used &amp;quot;tebe&#039;i&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; is usually more applicable; writing is just a medium (which could go in the &amp;quot;ve cusku&amp;quot; place if it was important). &amp;quot;tavla&amp;quot; is also useful here; it is not limited to verbal expression (which is &amp;quot;bacru&amp;quot;), and it has a &#039;talkee&#039; too. Finally, as implied by your &amp;quot;tebe&#039;i&amp;quot;, you could have used &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;le datni/se skicu be le fasnu&amp;quot; or more simply &amp;quot;le fasnu datni&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;piso&#039;i&amp;quot; is a fraction of a whole. If you are treating the events as separate reportable instances, you wanted &amp;quot;so&#039;i le fasnu&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;many of the events&amp;quot;. If you wanted to talk about them as a mass, you wanted &amp;quot;piso&#039;i lei fasnu&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;much of the mass of events&amp;quot;. Probably the latter is better.&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; as a demonstrative does not work well in letters, and in any case I doubt if you could point to the &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; that &#039;possesses&#039; the events. &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; is a sumti and in that position &amp;quot;le ti fasnu&amp;quot; it meant &amp;quot;this thing&#039;s event(s)&amp;quot;. For &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; in such a sumti you usually want the locator &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot;: (&amp;quot;le vi fasnu&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;the here event&amp;quot;). Now it turns out that a different possessive might actually have been appropriate here: &amp;quot;le de&#039;u fasnu&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;the earlier sentence&#039;s events&amp;quot;, or possibly, &amp;quot;le ru fasnu&amp;quot; which in your writing can only refer to &amp;quot;the Lojban class&amp;quot;; therefore &amp;quot;the Lojban-class&#039;s events&amp;quot;. Of course, &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; alone might have been clear since you would have been writing about the class as well as the events associated with the class.&lt;br /&gt;
: Adding all these comments together, I might have written the sentence as:&lt;br /&gt;
: .ije mi .i&#039;anai punai .uu skami cusku le de&#039;u fasnu do&lt;br /&gt;
: And I, (Damn me!) didn&#039;t (Regret!) computer-express the earlier sentence&#039;s events to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi&#039;u pu fonxa tavla &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Ditto have-before not telephone-talked.&lt;br /&gt;
: Again missing the negation, only it is more blatant here. You said that we have talked.&lt;br /&gt;
: You don&#039;t say what we haven&#039;t talked about. Since you and I have telephone talked before, you are putting a lot of semantic load on that &amp;quot;mi&#039;u&amp;quot; to convey that you want me to transfer the subject of talking from the previous sentence (as well as the other places).&lt;br /&gt;
: I like &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ji&#039;a&amp;quot; here instead of &amp;quot;mi&#039;u&amp;quot; though it seems as interesting concept to use a &amp;quot;ditto&amp;quot; discursive to copy the sumti from the previous sentence, while changing the selbri. Hmmm.&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;je&amp;quot;, with no discursive, linking a specified-sumti bridi with an observative, does strongly suggest the sumti copying. I do this a lot, according to Nora. There are also more obvious forms, based on a compound sentence using &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;, but I won&#039;t go into that here.&lt;br /&gt;
: My attempts:&lt;br /&gt;
: .ije punai fonxa tavla&lt;br /&gt;
: And didn&#039;t telephone talk.&lt;br /&gt;
: OR&lt;br /&gt;
: .ije punai fonxa tavla do le de&#039;u fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
: And didn&#039;t telephone talk to you about the earlier sentence&#039;s events.&lt;br /&gt;
: You also could have combined the last two sentences into one, but the negated tense makes the translation apparently illogical for English speakers, who implicitly convert the selbri from &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;or&amp;quot; under DeMorgan&#039;s Law. This is not recommended until people can truly think in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
: .ije mi .i&#039;anai punai .u&#039;u skami je fonxa cusku le de&#039;u fasnu do&lt;br /&gt;
: And I, (Damn me!) didn&#039;t (Regret!) computer-(or)-phone express the earlier sentence&#039;s events to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la lojbo gerna cu frili mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Lojban grammar is easy for me.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le lojbo valsi na go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The-set-of Lojban words is not.&lt;br /&gt;
: You are correct that &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; does not require &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. Excellent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cu troci le nu la&#039;edi&#039;u cu se djuno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I try-to-attain the-state-of them-previous being-known&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; here makes your sentence mean:&lt;br /&gt;
: I try-to-attain the-state-of (the-set-of Lojban words is not [easy for me]) being-known.&lt;br /&gt;
: You wanted &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; to get your translation:&lt;br /&gt;
: .i le lojbo valsi na go&#039;i .i mi troci lenu ri cu se djuno.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .au.a&#039;o mi baze&#039;e djuno roru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I hope-desire-that I will-after-some-time know them-all&lt;br /&gt;
: I corrected for publication what I presume to be a typo &amp;quot;.ava&#039;o&amp;quot; in your original.&lt;br /&gt;
: You wanted &amp;quot;ze&#039;eba&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;baze&#039;e&amp;quot;, which means here &amp;quot;I will for some interval in the future know all of them.&amp;quot; Examine the parallel examples in &amp;quot;tense*&amp;quot; in the cmavo &#039;Lexeme order list&#039;, which are based on &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; is more correct than &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; here; counting backwards in your version, &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;le lojbo valsi&amp;quot;. In my rewritten versions, &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; is still &amp;quot;le lojbo valsi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
: (See the following article for details regarding this comment.) Given the new place structure of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot;, I think you want &amp;quot;tu&#039;a roru&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i paupei la logflac. cu kakne le sidju di&#039;e .inaja jei di&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Question-opinion : Logflash is-able-to help? The-following only-if the-previous-sentence is-true:&lt;br /&gt;
: This one was fun. I had to write most of the following before I knew what you were trying.&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;paupei&amp;quot; isn&#039;t wrong but the &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot; is superfluous. &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot; is used to let the listener reader know that a question is coming up later in the sentence that might not be expected, forewarning that attention is needed so that the answer can be provided. When the question is the next word, the warning is redundant, but not wrong. I think that your desired question was probably &amp;quot;.iapei&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;pe&#039;ipei&amp;quot;, asking about belief or opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;m sure you wanted &amp;quot;le nu sidju di&#039;e&amp;quot;. Otherwise &amp;quot;le sidju&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the helper&amp;quot;) is the x2 place of &amp;quot;kakne&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;di&#039;e&amp;quot; is the x3 place. But as for what it means:&lt;br /&gt;
: Your second sentence isn&#039;t grammatical; you may have wanted &amp;quot;di&#039;u jetnu&amp;quot; based on your English. But more pressing is that you have one awesome self-referential sentence loop here, and I can&#039;t honestly say I understand the English any better than the Lojban. It&#039;s often a good idea to put a colloquial English translation along with a literal one if the structure is convoluted as in this case.&lt;br /&gt;
: I&#039;ll rephrase your English to reflect what you said (making the corrections already noted):&lt;br /&gt;
: .i la logflac. cu kakne lenu sidju di&#039;e .inaja di&#039;u jetnu&lt;br /&gt;
: Logflash is able at helping the following sentence. [Only if] the previous sentence is true.&lt;br /&gt;
: Does this make the problem clearer? You have a logical connective that makes some funky claims about the truth conditions of the combined pair of sentences. (I think you get a tautology of a sort: &amp;quot;.inaja&amp;quot; here effectively causes &amp;quot;not X or X&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;X&amp;quot; is the &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; of the second sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
: If the first is true the second must be; if the first is false, so is the second.) Then the second sentence is talking about the truth of the first sentence, while the first sentence is talking about Logflash helping with the second sentence. [Sounds of mental explosion as circuits are fried .oicairo&#039;e].&lt;br /&gt;
: .ua.ue ki&#039;anai [I think I finally understand!]&lt;br /&gt;
: I think I figured out now what you were trying to do (but only after all that analysis. My clue is how you grouped your English with a line separating:&lt;br /&gt;
: Question-opinion : Logflash is-able-to help.&lt;br /&gt;
: The-following only-if the-previous-sentence is-true: Request-please : you (imper) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&lt;br /&gt;
: This makes it clear that &amp;quot;di&#039;e&amp;quot; is supposed to be part of the same sentence as the &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot;, and actually refers to the sentence afterwards. At which point all becomes clear:&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; is an almost perfect sentence terminator. It says that the following sentence is about to start, making all of the &#039;elidable&#039; terminators of constructs shorter than sentence scope (i.e. &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;, etc.) actually elidable at the end of a sentence. BUT the &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; can ONLY go between sentences. It seems you were trying to use &amp;quot;.inaja&amp;quot; as the selbri. But the &amp;quot;di&#039;e&amp;quot; is irrevocably part of the first of two sentences in this case, and I merely spent my effort trying to figure out how it fit in. But then, that analysis pointed out the need for &amp;quot;lenu sidju&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;le sidju&amp;quot; - which I think is what you wanted; I might have missed it if not for the hanging &amp;quot;di&#039;e&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
: At which point I can say GOOD TRY, especially since we nowhere cover logical connectives in text materials. But:&lt;br /&gt;
: The members of &amp;quot;GOhA&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;+&amp;quot;KOhA&amp;quot;, and PA+MOI, are the only cmavo or cmavo compounds that come to mind as being valid as a selbri (there may be some complex equivalents of these, too. Lojban logical connectives connect constructs; they are not in themselves selbri. If you want a predicated connective, you need a gismu or tanru. We have provided &amp;quot;kanxe&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;vlina&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;dunli&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nibli&amp;quot;, and I think the latter is what you want here:&lt;br /&gt;
: .i pe&#039;ipei la logflac. cu kakne lenu sidju .i di&#039;e se nibli di&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: (Opinion-question?) Logflash is able at helping. The following is entailed by the preceding.&lt;br /&gt;
: (Nora would stop here; she likes short simple sentences, but I&#039;ll muck things up a little more.) At which point we can actually eliminate the 2nd sentence entirely, using a causal connective:&lt;br /&gt;
: .i .pe&#039;ipei la logflac. cu kakne lenu sidju&lt;br /&gt;
: .iseni&#039;ibo pe&#039;u.e&#039;o ko cu tavla mi le pu&#039;u cpacu ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
: which translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
: Question-opinion : Logflash is-able-to help?&lt;br /&gt;
: Necessitating therefore: request-please: you (imperative) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&lt;br /&gt;
: It is even possible to compress this to the single sentence (in which case the &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot; is useful, too):&lt;br /&gt;
: .i pau la logflac. cu kakne lenu sidju pe&#039;ipei kei seni&#039;i lenu pe&#039;ue&#039;o ko cu tavla mi le pu&#039;u cpacu ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
: Question follows: Logflash is-able to help (Your opinion please), which (the ability) would necessitate therefore (I request-please) that you (imperative) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&lt;br /&gt;
: Note the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; to terminate the &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; clause. Without it, the now-more-complex sentence means something only roughly similar (note the angle brackets):&lt;br /&gt;
: Question follows: Logflash is-able at &amp;lt;helping (your opinion please) thus necessitating therefore (I request-please) that you (imperative) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: There is no problem asking a Lojban question about a sentence while exploring the logical consequences of its truth. Lojban presumes that, logically speaking, the truth value of a question is the same as that of the sentence with the question satisfied (the blank filled in, etc.) Thus you can ask my opinion on the first sentence, while telling me what to do if it is true. Note that you have to move the &amp;quot;pe&#039;ipei&amp;quot; question itself around when you try to ask it all in one sentence, so that I clearly know that you are asking about Logflash&#039;s ability to help, and not whether (its ability to help necessitates talking about getting it).&lt;br /&gt;
: One other comment. Just as &amp;quot;LogFest&amp;quot; Lojbanizes poorly, so does &amp;quot;LogFlash&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;*gf&amp;quot; is not a permissible medial pair in Lojban, since &amp;quot;g&amp;quot; is voiced and &amp;quot;f&amp;quot; is unvoiced. Lojbanize it as &amp;quot;logyflac.&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;logvlac.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pe&#039;u.e&#039;o ko cu tavla mi le pu&#039;u cpacu ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Request-please : you (imperative) talk-to me about the-process-of getting them.&lt;br /&gt;
: An excellent non-trivial concluding sentence, with only two minor flaws. &amp;quot;pe&#039;u&amp;quot; is a vocative member of COI, and expects a name or description afterwards - you can&#039;t quite use it like an attitudinal, unless you close it with &amp;quot;do&#039;u&amp;quot;. Without the &amp;quot;do&#039;u&amp;quot;, the vocative absorbs &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; as the target of &amp;quot;pe&#039;u&amp;quot;, and you have approximately: &amp;quot;Request-of-you (imperative), that (observative: someone unspecified) talks-to-me about ...&amp;quot;. This still gets your point across. However, with the &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; absorbed, there is no sumti to separate, and the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is not needed or allowed. Secondly, &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is undefined. Presuming that you mean Logflash, I would simply repeat &amp;quot;la logyflac.&amp;quot; Alternatives are the vague &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; or assigning &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; - a waste for one reference.&lt;br /&gt;
: As an answer to your letter, call or write again regarding getting LogFlash. I of course believe it is helpful - it is the ONLY reason I can lojbo cusku with any skill.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ju&#039;e ki&#039;e co&#039;o lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I conclude. thanks. bye.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la korant.&lt;br /&gt;
Coranth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: You wanted &amp;quot;mi&#039;e korant.&amp;quot; for complete grammaticality. Overall an excellent first effort. It better than others argues for some explanation of logical connectives at an early stage. I will modify my textbook outline as a result. Keep it up!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cleft Place Structures and sumti-Raising ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A minor excursion in &amp;quot;how to say it in Lojban&amp;quot; turned into a major philosophical examination of language and metalanguage (how we talk about language) this spring. The result of this endeavor was a series of minor word changes - mostly additions of cmavo, one minor grammar change, and a couple of major philosophical realizations about language that shook us to the underpinnings and will have a profound effect on how we teach the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, we can&#039;t take the space here to discuss the question in depth, including the various rationales for decisions made and not made. The discussion would be as long and intricate as the negation paper published last year, only more confusing. Instead, we&#039;ll try to outline what was decided, emphasizing effects on Lojban expression.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English does not have very effective tools for talking about language. You have to teach a whole specialized vocabulary for any aspect of language - a vocabulary that reads like jargon without a great deal of explanation. Classic problems are how to describe the meaning of words like &amp;quot;of&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the&amp;quot;, or how to describe the meaning of a form of the verb &amp;quot;to be&amp;quot; combined with the suffix &amp;quot;-ing&amp;quot; on a verb without merely giving an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, for those questions, you at least know the answer, even if you can&#039;t easily phrase it. Topics like &#039;indirect questions&#039; (which are not really questions at all), and &#039;object raising&#039; (sumti raising when generalized in Lojban) are topics for linguistic researchers. Everyday people use these linguistic features all the time without realizing it AND, even realizing it, find it difficult to paraphrase and explain what they are doing, and why they understand what it means.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, I&#039;ll explain some of the problem, give simple examples of a couple of the points which you may be able to use and generalize, but otherwise will just try to explain the changes. If you don&#039;t understand just yet, don&#039;t worry - we carried on conversations in Lojban for a couple of years without even noticing the problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Difficulty warning: this material in places relies on all of the contents of the draft textbook lessons. You may not understand everything that follows without them, but I&#039;ve tried to make the explanation independent of your knowledge of Lojban as much as possible.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You may know that Lojban has at least two major kinds of sumti (arguments) in its bridi (predications). Only two are relevant here. I will call these &#039;simple&#039; and &#039;abstract&#039; sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A simple sumti is comparable to what in English are &#039;common nouns&#039; - objects that you can point to. Examples include &amp;quot;le stizu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the chair&amp;quot;), &amp;quot;le zarci&amp;quot; (the market). But because Lojban doesn&#039;t distinguish nouns, verbs, and adjectives, we can also have &amp;quot;le blanu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the blue thing&amp;quot;), or &amp;quot;le kurji&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the one taking care of ...&amp;quot;) as simple sumti. All of the examples so far are what we call &#039;descriptions&#039; in the Loglan/Lojban project. In a description, a selbri (the predicate word or phrase that defines the relationship) is converted into a sumti, omitting the x1 place, using a descriptor word like &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;. The description then refers to something intended that would fill that x1 place. Thus &amp;quot;le klama&amp;quot; is something that would fill the x1 place of &amp;quot;x1 comes/goes to x2 from x3 via x4 using mode x5&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An abstract sumti looks and acts differently. In an abstract sumti, you take a whole bridi predication (including the x1), i.e., a whole sentence, and turn it into a sumti. That sumti then represents the abstract state or event of the relation occurring (&amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;), the characteristic property(ies) of that relation (&amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;), or any of several other abstractions, including &amp;quot;du&#039;u&amp;quot; (a predication about the relation), and &amp;quot;jei&amp;quot; (the truth value of such a relation). These others may be found in selma&#039;o NU in your cmavo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is hidden in most usage of these abstract sumti is that we have created an entirely new selbri relationship encompassing the abstracted bridi and its places as the selbri. For most abstractions, this new selbri has only one place, though &amp;quot;jei&amp;quot;, which talks about truth values, has an x2 place for epistemology, and &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot;, and amount, has a scale. When you use one of these abstractions in a sumti, you are again filling in the x1 place of one selbri, but at a higher, more abstract level than for a simple sumti. Thus there is a parallel between these different levels of sumti such that both are tied back to a bridi relation with one unspecified place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An example of an abstract bridi is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 is the event (&amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;) of &amp;lt;xk1 comes/goes (klama) to xk2 from xk3 via xk4 using mode xk5&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In &amp;quot;le nu klama&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; means that we are talking about the x1 just defined, just as &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; means for simple sumti. The other sumti may or may not be explicitly expressed, but the grammar is that of a full bridi terminated by the elidable terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu mi klama le zarci kei ku &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[le nu &amp;lt;mi klama le zarci kei&amp;gt; ku] &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The event of my going to the market ... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(As a lujvo, &amp;quot;nunklama&amp;quot;, the 6 places would be renumbered x1 through x6, hiding the two levels of grammatical structure.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parallel effect of &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; allows us to grammatically treat these two kinds of sumti alike in many ways. An abstraction has the abstract marker from NU on the front and an elidable terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; on the back, to keep the language unambiguous, allowing you to know whether a selbri is part of the abstraction or is the main selbri of the sentence, or whether a sumti is a sumti of the main sentence bridi, or of the abstraction bridi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These descriptions and abstractions are long, possibly complex in grammar, and generally a pain to repeat when you are saying a lot about them. So we have symbols or &#039;anaphora&#039; to stand for them. You may be familiar with &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; which can be assigned to represent any sumti, whether abstract or simple, as well as &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;me&amp;quot;) and &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;you&amp;quot;). All of these are &#039;anaphora&#039; - words that stand for something previously defined or obvious from the context. There are a lot of others. One other kind of anaphora is names. When you use the name &amp;quot;lojbab.&amp;quot; for me, the name represents me for discussion in a sentence. &amp;quot;la lojbab.&amp;quot; is thus grammatically equivalent to &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;le nu mi klama le zarci [ku] [vau] [kei] [ku]&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can also use names as anaphora for events and other abstraction sumti. &amp;quot;The Renaissance&amp;quot; is a name for an important historical period, and &amp;quot;The Battle of Bunker Hill&amp;quot; is the name of an event.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By equating simple sumti and abstract sumti grammatically, we achieve some of the power of Lojban&#039;s grammar. Lojban allows the manipulation of both types of arguments using its grammar as predicate logic does - you ignore the representation when manipulating the symbols.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The risk for human speakers is the same as the advantage: you may ignore the representation when manipulating the symbols. If you forget that you are working with abstractions, you can end up mixing levels of abstraction. The result is nonsense. In natural language, when we speak nonsense, the listener tries to make sense of it, and intuitively ignores errors of abstraction level, giving understanding that may ignore logical errors. We want to avoid this in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some examples. Here are some relations expressed as English sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is good. (It representing &amp;quot;the cat&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It is good. (It representing &amp;quot;the long romantic walk to the park&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(2)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mary considered it. (It representing &amp;quot;the cat&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mary considered it. (it representing &amp;quot;the long romantic walk to the park&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1) serves to remind that abstract sumti and simple sumti are equivalent in Lojban bridi. You need to be able to manipulate them using their symbols, without worrying about what the symbols represent, or whether you end up with nonsense, as in (2). At some point, however, you want to interpret &amp;quot;it&amp;quot;, and if &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; represents something illogical in the context, you want to recognize that you have nonsense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(3)&lt;br /&gt;
I know about John.&lt;br /&gt;
I know about John sleeping with Susan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(4)&lt;br /&gt;
The cooking is done. (My cooking something has completed.)&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m done cooking. (I have completed the cooking.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(5)&lt;br /&gt;
I turn the water into steam by boiling it.&lt;br /&gt;
My boiling it turns the water into steam.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(3) through (5) are pairs of sentences with two &#039;arguments&#039; that would be sumti in Lojban. The relations that would be the selbri in Lojban are traditionally represented by a single word root (&amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;) in Lojban; respectively these are &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;know&amp;quot;), &amp;quot;mulno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;complete&amp;quot;), and &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;modify&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In each pair of sentences, one relates a concept using an abstract sumti, and the other a concept using a simple sumti. But notice: it is the &amp;quot;actor&amp;quot; of the event in the abstraction sentence that serves as the simple sumti in the other sentence. In (4) you may need to look at the parenthesized versions to see this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In English, we typically interpret both sentences as meaning the same thing. But how can this be - is an abstraction really the same as the actor of that abstraction? Is it &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; that turns the water into steam, or is it &amp;quot;my boiling the water&amp;quot; that turns it into steam? It cannot be both using a single definition for &amp;quot;turns it into steam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And indeed, the result is that the meaning of &amp;quot;turns water into steam&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;is done&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;knows about&amp;quot; in English have at least two meanings, and we figure out which one applies based on context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Linguists say that in such cases, we have in effect &#039;raised&#039; the simple sumti out of the abstraction and are using it to represent the abstraction. This feature is called &#039;subject-raising&#039; or &#039;object-raising&#039; when used to describe English and other natural languages. We call it sumti-raising when talking about Lojban, which does not distinguish between subjects and objects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notice that Lojban can make it clear that there are really two distinct place structures involved when you have a sumti-raising. For the examples, we have:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 knows about x2 (an actor) being the actor in doing x3 (an activity abstract like &#039;sleeping with&#039;)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;x1 knows about x2 (an abstract event or fact)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 (an event) is done/complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;x1 (an actor) is done being the actor in event x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 (an actor) modifies x2 into x3 by being the actor in event/process x4&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;x1 (an event/process) modifies x2 into x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is explicit because so much of Lojban semantics is embedded in the place structures. For a variety of reasons - logical integrity, ease of learning, etc., we want to have only a single place structure for each Lojban word, and we want to know what goes into each place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have given a label to bridi place structures where one of the sumti places is defined to be an actor (or some other place) in an abstraction sumti found elsewhere in the same bridi. We call these &#039;cleft place structures&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if there were no other reason, we dislike cleft place structures because they are repetitive and redundant. This becomes evident in completely expressed Lojban sentences, for which I will give English equivalents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know about John that John is sleeping with Susan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I am done with my doing the cooking.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I turn the water into steam by my boiling the water.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the last example has two redundant sumti, &amp;quot;I&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;the water&amp;quot;, thus showing that sumti-raising is not limited to &#039;actor&#039; places.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, if you look at the Lojban for these, you realize that it is perfectly acceptable to put a different value in one of the two supposedly equivalent places, resulting in apparent non-sequitors:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know about John that the dog is sleeping with Susan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I am done with you doing the cooking.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I turn the water into steam by John boiling Susan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These appear to be nonsense, but the human mind attempts to make sense of them anyway, possibly concluding that John is literally or figuratively a dog, that &amp;quot;my being done with you cooking&amp;quot; means that I will not tolerate it any more and will eat out instead, with &amp;quot;done&amp;quot; being interpreted figuratively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another example out of recent events that shows the logical errors that can result from this (courtesy Art Protin):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saddam Hussein modified the borders of Iraq to include Kuwait by Iraqi soldiers invading Kuwait.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here we have an abstract cleft-structured sentence (it uses the same structure as &amp;quot;I turn the water ...&amp;quot;), where the actor, Saddam, does not appear in the abstraction. To interpret this, we can jump to all manner of conclusions that are in some way logically faulty. We relying on hidden assumptions to pull meaning out of the statement, as we try to decide whether Saddam or his soldiers were the aggressors against Kuwait.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, we may rely on the main predicate as pre-eminent, interpreting the statement as if the Iraqi soldiers were Saddam Hussein, or else his direct agents, puppets, or tools and not thinking and feeling human beings capable of independent choice:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Iraqi soldiers are not responsible for attacking because they had no choice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alternatively, we think of &amp;quot;invade&amp;quot; as the active verb making the soldiers the actual &#039;actors&#039;, while Saddam remains a nebulous motivational force (who actually &#039;did&#039; nothing):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Iraqi soldiers are responsible, because Saddam merely gave orders and they were obligated to disobey an immoral or illegal order (the Nrenburg judgement).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The converse of the first version (seen from Saddam&#039;s point of view perhaps) sees Saddam as actor, and the soldiers as impersonal tools that failed in their function:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saddam is not responsible for Iraq&#039;s losing the war because his soldiers failed him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We thus end up depersonalizing either the soldiers or Saddam; they cease to be thought of as real people because our instinctive language use wants to recognize only one active agent in an abstract statement. Carrying such statements to their illogical conclusion can depersonalize any aspect of the war:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The allied coalition forces should/should-not punish the soldiers (or Saddam, or the people of Iraq: take your choice) because they were/were-not responsible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I deliberately chose a current and controversial topic because opinion molders, whether government or media, &#039;honest&#039; writers or propagandists, use just such illogical arguments and hidden assumptions to convince readers of their point of view, often with deadly consequences. I intend none of the above expressions to be taken as being mine or la lojbangirz.&#039;s opinions on the matter.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another problem occurs when you turn one of these words with possibly cleft structures into a simple description sumti. Is &amp;quot;le mulno&amp;quot; an action that is complete, or the actor that completed it? Is &amp;quot;le galfi&amp;quot; a modifier, or the modification process? You clearly want to be able to somehow access the actor, since he/she/it is likely to be used in a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In older versions of Loglan, there were many problem words of this sort. Jim Brown basically argued that place structures should be what is &#039;natural&#039; for speakers, including all information that is needed to determine the truth conditions of the relation. Both of these place structures include the information, so he typically chose the more English-like version of the place structure. This led to all manner of subtle difficulties. Since the actor is specified in one place, then also in the event sumti, you typically will elliptically omit the actor, as well as other places.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ 6a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ?mi&lt;br /&gt;
| mulno&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| nu&lt;br /&gt;
| [mi]&lt;br /&gt;
| jukpa&lt;br /&gt;
| [le &lt;br /&gt;
| cidja]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I-&lt;br /&gt;
| complete&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| event-of&lt;br /&gt;
| [me]&lt;br /&gt;
| cooking&lt;br /&gt;
| [the&lt;br /&gt;
| food].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;8&amp;quot; | I finish cooking.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ 6b&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ?le&lt;br /&gt;
| nu&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| jukpa&lt;br /&gt;
| [le cidja]&lt;br /&gt;
| cu mulno&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| The&lt;br /&gt;
| event-of&lt;br /&gt;
| me&lt;br /&gt;
| cooking&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| food&lt;br /&gt;
| is-complete.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence is often &#039;shortened&#039; in a couple of other ways in colloquial English: &amp;quot;I&#039;m done cooking.&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;The food is done cooking&amp;quot;. (6b) reveals that in English we are merely condensing the abstract event in a different way, by ellipsizing a different sumti of the event bridi &amp;quot;my cooking the food&amp;quot;. The result was haphazard, inconsistent place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is important to realize the historical roots of this problem, because they constrain the solutions. The choice of gismu, and indeed the grammar of Lojban itself, evolved from an earlier version of Loglan. That version did not recognize sumti-raising as a feature of the language, and tended to obscure abstractions much the way we do in English, based on Brown&#039;s concept of &#039;natural&#039; place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In older versions of Loglan, most words had an actor in the x1 place. When trying to express one of these bridi using the given place structures, one naturally ellipsized the first sumti of the abstract event, which was just a repetition of the actor, just as in (6a) above. However, JCB apparently did not recognize that the result was logically identical to one with the abstract actor filled in, and instead built the Loglan grammar considering an abstract with ellipsized x1 actor as a totally separate grammatical construct. This construct has no basis in logic and caused all manner of ambiguities in Loglan, ambiguities that were solved by cheating in the Loglan machine grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Institute Loglan STILL has this problem, which I&#039;ll describe for those comparing the two versions (otherwise skip this and the next two paragraphs). That version uses the word &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; where Lojban uses &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. In Jim Brown&#039;s versions of Loglan, &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;) does NOT change the nature of a bridi, as I discussed above. &amp;quot;le po blanu&amp;quot; was a simple sumti: &amp;quot;le (po blanu)&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;(po blanu)&amp;quot; is a description for of a selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get an abstract sumti, you write &amp;quot;lepo&amp;quot; as a single word, which the computer parser would then treat as a totally different selma&#039;o (grammatical category) than &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, turning a whole bridi predication into a sumti: &amp;quot;lepo (ta blanu)&amp;quot;. But a human being can&#039;t tell &amp;quot;lepo&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;le po&amp;quot; in normal speech, so Jim Brown introduced an arbitrary rule that to separate the two words, you had to pause between them - a &amp;quot;lexemic&amp;quot; pause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Computer languages often use spaces to avoid ambiguities, and Jim Brown was in effect treating a space as a pause (there is no symbolic representation in Institute Loglan that a pause is required in &amp;quot;le po blanu&amp;quot;. Finally, Brown introduced a &amp;quot;poge&amp;quot; construction to make a &#039;long-scope&#039; abstraction for use with trailing arguments and logical connectives: &amp;quot;mi viska le poge ta blanu&amp;quot; is a possible construction, though one never used because it is identical to &amp;quot;mi viska lepo ta blanu&amp;quot;. The web of spaces and &amp;quot;ge&amp;quot;s made a mess of the grammar description, especially since both are used in other ways in the grammar as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When we started Lojban, we rebuilt the grammar on our own. At first, we merely copied the existing Loglan structures. But in 1989, we started teaching the language. In what is now Lesson 3 of the draft textbook lessons, we attempted to explain Loglan abstraction. Lojbanists from before March 1989 may remember examples from that time using &amp;quot;*le nuke&amp;quot;, which exactly matched &amp;quot;le poge&amp;quot;; we also had &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; as distinct constructs. The widely distributed &#039;February 1988&#039; machine grammar contains these fossils.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While trying to explain abstractions, we demonstrated that there was only one real construct involving &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and that was a bridi turned into a selbri. John Parks-Clifford (pc), noted that he and others had unsuccessfully argued for this in the 1970&#039;s with Jim Brown. pc also had discussed cleft place structures with Brown, but with no resulting change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1989, both the abstraction grammar and cleft place structures issues came up separately. The abstraction problem was resolved as described above, and pc&#039;s reasoning on the cleft place structures was convincing; we changed most place structures where x1 was the actor and x2 was an event to a single place. tanru (metaphors) and lujvo (complexes) were used to access the actor. &amp;quot;mulgau&amp;quot; (mulno gasnu) is thus the actor form of &amp;quot;complete&amp;quot; in current Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the problem is not really resolved. We missed several cleft place structures, and have discovered them intermittently while doing the place structure reviews. &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot; was a recent discovery, with the x1 place cleft from the x4 event.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, in teaching Lojban, we have found that when native English speakers trying to speak Lojban guess at place structures, they presume actor forms of the words. Thus some people, (including those of us with more experience) use &amp;quot;mi mulno&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;I&#039;m done&amp;quot;, usually with humorous results when called on it. (In Lojban, &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; are presumably not &amp;quot;done&amp;quot; until the &amp;quot;event&amp;quot; represented by the word &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; is complete; i.e. when you are dead, or even later, in some religions.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus the problems: how hard do we try to eliminate cleft place structures and how do we solve the natural language habit of sumti-raising while preserving Lojban&#039;s logical character?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Solution ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The solution has evolved over the last year or so in several stages. Only one grammar change is involved, and that expands capabilities rather than changes any existing constructs in the language. In developing a solution, we ended up running into multiple distracting side-issues, ranging from the place structure of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot;, to &#039;indirect questions&#039;, the changes that resulted will also be listed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== sumti-Raising ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Lojban, there is no difference between &#039;subject&#039; and &#039;object&#039;, because free rearrangement of arguments (sumti) using conversion with selma&#039;o SE can lead to any sumti being in the first &#039;subject&#039; position. The proposal thus generalizes &#039;sumti-raising&#039; from subject-raising and object-raising.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Start with the English sentence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I try the door. (1)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without recognizing sumti-raising, we would translate this into Lojban as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi troci le vorme (1a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
based on the place structure of &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 tries to do/attain x2 by x3 (1b)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which expands to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 tries to bring about the event/state/ process/activity x2 by method x3 (1c)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1c) clarifies that x2 is an abstract clause. I then view &amp;quot;le vorme&amp;quot; is a sumti-raising from one of two possible x2 abstract sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi troci lenu mi karyri&#039;a le vorme (2)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I try the-event I open-cause the door.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi troci lenu le vorme cu kalri (3)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I try the-event the door is-open.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(There is further possible complication in (2) in that rinka (cause), the basis of &amp;quot;karyri&#039;a&amp;quot; would normally take an event abstraction in its x1 place, thus making the &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; in that position a sumti-raising as well. (2) thus can be further expanded to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi troci lenu lenu mi lacpu/catke le vorme cu rinka leka le vorme cu kalri /lenu le vorme cu kalri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| troci&lt;br /&gt;
| (lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;lt;lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| lacpu&lt;br /&gt;
| /catke&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| vorme&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
| cu&lt;br /&gt;
| rinka&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| try&lt;br /&gt;
| the-event&lt;br /&gt;
| the event&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| pull &lt;br /&gt;
| /push&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| door&lt;br /&gt;
| causes&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (4a)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;lt;leka&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| vorme&lt;br /&gt;
| cu kalri&amp;gt;)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| the-property-of&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| door&lt;br /&gt;
| open(-ness)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot; | the door&#039;s openness. &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (4b)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| &amp;lt;lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| vorme&lt;br /&gt;
| cu&lt;br /&gt;
| kalri&amp;gt;)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| the-event-of&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| door&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| is-open&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan =&amp;quot;5&amp;quot; | the door opening.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, much information is lost or hidden in sumti-raising - we don&#039;t know in (2) whether pushing or pulling the door is necessary (or hitting the elevator door button, for that matter). Thus there clearly is a lot of semantics hidden in &amp;quot;le vorme&amp;quot; in original sentence (1a). We want to mark this explicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We want in Lojban to discourage unnecessary sumti-raising because it is logically sloppy. However, sumti-raising allows brevity and a &#039;natural&#039; feel to the language. Clearly, (4a) and (4b) are too much to ask of a speaker who is thinking (1) - that she/he merely wants the door open, and it doesn&#039;t matter how.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve thus accepted that sumti-raising must be allowed in the language. But it is most important that people recognize when they are sumti-raising, and mark it so that the listener can then allow for it, interpreting &#039;what the speaker really meant&#039; as being something involving an unspecified abstraction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We therefore will explicitly mark sumti-raising using the cmavo &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;, which is assigned to selma&#039;o LAhE (thus not requiring a grammar change). LAhE is the category of &#039;indirect markers&#039; that tell the listener that the sumti as spoken is only an indirect symbol for what is actually intended to fill the place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any time there is a sumti-raising, there is an implied abstracted bridi which is ellipsized, much as we leave out unimportant trailing places. We have assigned the cmavo &amp;quot;co&#039;e&amp;quot; to represent such an unspecified, normally ellipsized, bridi. Thus, (1a) becomes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi troci tu&#039;a le vorme&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which is equivalent to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (5)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| troci&lt;br /&gt;
| lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| vorme&lt;br /&gt;
| cu&lt;br /&gt;
| co&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| attempt&lt;br /&gt;
| the-event&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| door&lt;br /&gt;
| being/doing&lt;br /&gt;
| something.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(To be formally correct, we should use &amp;quot;lesu&#039;u&amp;quot; to get an unspecified abstraction instead of &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By looking back at (4a) and (4b), we see that &amp;quot;co&#039;e&amp;quot; in (5) is actually the equivalent of the English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;being opened by my pushing/pulling it&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will urge that when people speak Lojban, that they try to be aware of the possibility that they may be sumti-raising, and mark it with &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sloppy speakers, and new Lojbanists, will sometimes fail - you have a lifetime of habit to overcome. Thus a listener may choose to assume that an unmarked concrete sumti in a place that normally takes an abstraction really is intended to be a sumti-raising - choosing to understand (1) as meaning (5). If this happens too extensively, however, the logical nature of Lojban is compromised - thus we will not teach unmarked sumti-raising as valid, and will discourage it or correct it when we notice it.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sumti-raising solves the problem of cleft place structures. It allows uncleft place structures to mimic cleft ones for user convenience. A sentence claim like: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| cinfai&lt;br /&gt;
| cu galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| The event-of&lt;br /&gt;
| (I&lt;br /&gt;
| paint)&lt;br /&gt;
| modifies&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
corresponding to the place structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 (an event/action/state) modifies x2 into x3 (6)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
means the same as the cleft sentence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| *mi&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
| fo lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| cinfai&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| modify&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall&lt;br /&gt;
| by the event-of&lt;br /&gt;
| (I&lt;br /&gt;
| paint)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
based on place structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*x1 (an actor/agent) modifies x2 into x3 by doing/being x4 (an action/state) (6a)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if the act of painting is irrelevant or obvious, and all you need to communicate was that it was YOU who changed the wall, then &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; makes the ellipsis possible for the uncleft structure (6), and makes the resulting sentence quite brief:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (7)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Something&lt;br /&gt;
| I do&lt;br /&gt;
| modifies&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The consensus of Lojbanists is that uncleft place structures are logically cleaner and are more concise, hence the preferred way to go in Lojban. Thus, we are trying to identify and eliminate as many cleft place structures as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will not eliminate all of them. In some cases, the cleft structure is inherent to the meaning of the concept. The most noteworthy of these are &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;zukte&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lifri&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ckaji&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;klani&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One place structure change that has been formally adopted is the clarification that gasnu means &amp;quot;x1 is the actor/agent in doing event/process/activity x2&amp;quot;. In other words, &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot; is inherently defined to be cleft, with the actor/ agent extracted from the action. There is no meaning to English &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; that avoids a cleft structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;zukte&amp;quot; also has a mandatory cleft structure since an action with goal requires an &#039;actor&#039; to adopt that goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lifri&amp;quot; is the corresponding (also cleft) word for a passive/patient/experiencer. &amp;quot;Actor/ agent&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;goal&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;passive/patient/experiencer&amp;quot; are terms used in case theory semantics for the basic semantic roles in a sentence. It is likely that other places that correspond to such basic semantic roles may have remain cleft, if only to support continued efforts to regularize Lojban semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We may find that a couple more words must have cleft structures due to the inherent mental state of an actor that must be identified to evaluate the truth of the predication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ckaji&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;klani&amp;quot; are cleft because they express the basic semantic relation of a property abstract to the thing having the property, and an amount abstract to the thing being measured.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having mentioned &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot;, it us worth noting that there is another way to extract an actor/ agent from an abstraction clause in an uncleft place structure. This other method is to use &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot; from selma&#039;o BAI, which is derived from &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot; and is tied to that word&#039;s actor-extracting cleft place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using the above example, we can thus say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (8)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gau&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| with-agent&lt;br /&gt;
| me (some-x1-event-unspecified)&lt;br /&gt;
| modifies&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives the same effect as sumti-raising, but is more clear as to the role of &#039;me&#039; in the relationship. sumti-raising need not always involve raising an &#039;actor/agent&#039;. Given that the unspecified abstract selbri is cinfai, we could easily say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (9)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| lei&lt;br /&gt;
| blanu&lt;br /&gt;
| cinta&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| The&lt;br /&gt;
| blue&lt;br /&gt;
| paint doing/being something (i.e. being spread)&lt;br /&gt;
| modifies&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (10)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| The&lt;br /&gt;
| wall&lt;br /&gt;
| doing/being something (i.e. having paint spread upon it)&lt;br /&gt;
| modifies&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; is thus very vague and relies on the speaker trusting that the listener will be able to determine from context what the hidden abstraction is and role the raised sumti plays (i.e. to understand what the speaker means without her/him being explicit). &amp;quot;gau mi&amp;quot; on the other hand says that I&#039;m actually and actively doing something to bring about the relationship, and we thus would be surprised by &amp;quot;gau lei blanu cinta&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;gau le bitmu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot; takes more thought than &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;. The reason the speaker might use &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; sumti-raising is to save time and mental energy for communicating the important instead of the &#039;obvious&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot; form works differently from &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;, since it is not actually sumti-raising. The x1 place of &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot; remains unspecified. By avoiding that difficult place in the place structure, it weakens that place structure. More importantly, use of &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot; may indicate the speaker&#039;s failure to recognize the hidden logical structure - that I am agent in a subsidiary event (the painting) rather than necessarily the agent in &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, but aren&#039;t they the same thing? Probably yes, in this case. But in others, not so. The classic argument used by gun control advocates, &amp;quot;Guns don&#039;t kill people; people kill people&amp;quot;, relies on just such confusion of abstraction levels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is thus important to understand that there is no explicitly marked link between a &amp;quot;gau&amp;quot;-added agentive place, and the ellipsized x1 sumti. In causality statements like &amp;quot;Guns don&#039;t kill people; people kill people&amp;quot;, the claim about the agent of a change may be independent of the event that physically causes, motivates, justifies, or logically entails the result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;gau&amp;quot;-agents are thus logically inaccurate but semantically clear about the role of the marked sumti. sumti-raising is more vague about the semantics of the &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;-marked sumti, but more precise logically. The only way to be precise in both aspects is to explicitly identify the subordinate abstracted bridi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Put still another way, BAI clearly specifies the semantic relation between the sumti and the rest of the bridi, while labelled sumti-raising clearly specifies that hidden ellipsis is present. Both methods are a kind of ellipsis, and both have a role in the language. But let it be recognized that only explicit elucidation of the hidden ellipsis gives a complete statement, just as explicit elucidation of all places in a bridi place structure makes a bridi more complete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== All sumti are created equal. ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us suppose that you want to refer to the agent who modified the wall in a sumti, rather than in a full bridi. A mother says to her child: &amp;quot;whoever modified this wall (by putting paint on it) will be punished&amp;quot;. Until this recent set of changes, there was no direct way to do this. However, in the one grammar change, introduced, we have added selma&#039;o JAI, which only has the word &amp;quot;jai&amp;quot; in it. Following is the approved change and an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PREVIOUS RULE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Official doctrine states that the sumtcita of a bridi constitute nonstandard places which are co-equal with the regular numbered places. However, there was no way to make these places the subject of a description by moving them into a numbered (specifically, the x1) place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
APPROVED CHANGE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Add JAI+sumtcita as another variety of SE conversion. (JAI is a new selma&#039;o.) This is usable on selbri in descriptions or main selbri, not in the other places where SE is legal (logical connectives, modals, etc.). The result is that the tcita sumti comes to occupy the x1 place, and the original x1 place is switched by the conversion to an un-numbered place which can be accessed with the cmavo &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; (selma&#039;o FA). All other places numbers remain unchanged as in SE conversions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To make room for this usage, the current &amp;quot;fai&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;fi&#039;e&amp;quot; (selma&#039;o GOhA) are changed respectively to &amp;quot;nei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;no&#039;a&amp;quot;. (There is more explanation of these words below.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is currently messy to say &amp;quot;the time of my going to the store&amp;quot;; this looks like an abstraction, but does not match any existing abstractor. It can be handled quite neatly with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| jai ca&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| be&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| bei&lt;br /&gt;
| fai mi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| the (thing which is)&lt;br /&gt;
| simultaneous-with&lt;br /&gt;
| going&lt;br /&gt;
| to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store&lt;br /&gt;
| by&lt;br /&gt;
| me.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, when attempting to access a place (such as an agent) that is actually found within a abstraction sumti, one uses either explicit sumti-raising or implicit raising using a BAI modal tag. JAI-based &#039;modal conversions&#039; allow description sumti access to modal tag sumti-raising, as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| jai gau&lt;br /&gt;
| galfi&lt;br /&gt;
| be&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| The&lt;br /&gt;
| actor-in&lt;br /&gt;
| modifying&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| wall.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== djuno ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; has been much-debated. The problem is made more difficult because English combines at least four different concepts in &amp;quot;to know&amp;quot; which are often broken out into separate words in other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;to understand something&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;jimpe&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;to be familiar with something&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;it is na&#039;e cnino to me&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;to know in general about something&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I know arithmetic&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;to know a specific fact is true&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I know that &#039;2+2=4&#039;&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The latter two can be related in a single gismu, and &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; represents those types of knowledge. The new place structure for &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; recognizes that the &#039;subject&#039; of knowledge (x3) may or may not be at a broader level than the knowledge itself (x2), and that knowing a fact (x2) entails knowing it in some larger context (x3), as well as according to an epistemology (a means of knowledge, e.g. deduction, observation, authority, etc. x4)). Thus the current place structure proposal for &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 knows that abstract statement x2 (a &#039;truth&#039;) about subject x3 is true under epistemology x4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| zo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
| lei cmaci&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| some-fact(s) unspecified&lt;br /&gt;
| about math&lt;br /&gt;
| [by some epistemology].&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| ledu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| li vo&lt;br /&gt;
| sumji&lt;br /&gt;
| li re&lt;br /&gt;
| li re&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| the-assertion&lt;br /&gt;
| 4&lt;br /&gt;
| sums&lt;br /&gt;
| 2&lt;br /&gt;
| [and] 2&lt;br /&gt;
| [about some subject by some epistemology]&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| fo&lt;br /&gt;
| le nu la .iuklid.&lt;br /&gt;
| lojycipra&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| something&lt;br /&gt;
| about something&lt;br /&gt;
| by&lt;br /&gt;
| Euclid&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
| logical-proof.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Indirect Questions ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a variety of kinds of &#039;indirect questions&#039;, most often identifiable in English because they contain a &#039;question word&#039; and imply a question that was or could be asked, but are not really questions. They often involve knowledge, hence the place structure of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; figured heavily in the discussion. An English example: &amp;quot;I know who went to the store.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The term &#039;indirect question&#039; is actually somewhat of a misnomer; all Indo-European languages overlap use of relative pronouns with question words, and all use these &#039;wh-words&#039; in &#039;indirect questions&#039;. Grammarians could also call them &#039;indirect restrictive clauses&#039;, but this would never sell.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem in Lojban is that we cannot translate these using a question word, or there is an ambiguity:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (1)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| du&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| ma&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| statement&lt;br /&gt;
| (Who?&lt;br /&gt;
| going to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store)&lt;br /&gt;
| holds&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; is asking the listener to fill in the answer. This is akin to the English - perhaps said in surprise, with emphasis as underlined:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know who went to the store?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban must not use emphasis to distinguish such usages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are at least two ways of expressing these now. When the indirect question word is a form of &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; (who, what, when, where, why, and how questions), just use sumti-raising:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (2)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| tu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| be&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| [some statement about]&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| goer&lt;br /&gt;
| to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store,&lt;br /&gt;
| [namely, identity]&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the place structure for &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; allows us to avoid sumti-raising entirely using a &#039;cleft&#039; x3 subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (3)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
| fi&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| be&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| (something)&lt;br /&gt;
| about&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| goer&lt;br /&gt;
| to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store&lt;br /&gt;
| [namely, identity].&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was one justification for the x3 place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot;&#039;s place structure does not make up for the need for &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; sumti-raising with other brivla that have no &#039;subject&#039; place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When the question word is not a sumti, use the new &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; marker (memory hook: &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; belongs to selma&#039;o UI). &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; marks the previous word as being a placeholder that identifies the selma&#039;o of the correct value - it need not actually be that value. &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; then indicates that the speaker, or some other person implicit in the context, knows the correct value for that place:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (4)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| du&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| jikau&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zdani&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| predication&lt;br /&gt;
| [John&lt;br /&gt;
| goes to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store&lt;br /&gt;
| (Connection-known) &lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| house]&lt;br /&gt;
| holds.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;12&amp;quot; | I know whether John goes to the store or to the house.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the x1 place had been &amp;quot;la djan.&amp;quot;, context would imply that it is John who knows the value, and not the speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can match an English translation better sometimes using a different word in the selma&#039;o. Using a non-question word may imply additional information not expressible with a question. The initial &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; example captures the &#039;indirect question&#039; aspect of the English &amp;quot;whether&amp;quot;, but does not read very colloquially. You can insert a hypothetical &#039;answer&#039; where the question word goes for a better-reading English translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (5)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi || djuno || le || du&#039;u || la djan. || klama || le || zarci || .akau || le || zdani || &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I || know || the || predication || [John || goes to || the || store || or-(correct value known) || the || house] || holds.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;12&amp;quot; | I know whether John goes to the store or to the house.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You might also choose to see &#039;indirect questions&#039; as restrictive relative clauses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (6)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi || djuno || tu&#039;a || zo&#039;ekau || poi || klama || be || le || zarci || &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I || know || [something about] || the something unspecified (correct value known) || that || goes to ||  || the || store, || namely identity.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even more preferably as the simpler abstract bridi:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (7)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi || djuno || le || du&#039;u || zo&#039;ekau || klama || le || zarci&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I || know || the || statement || the something unspecified (correct value known) || goes to || the || store.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;8&amp;quot; | I know who went/is going to the store.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also express &#039;knowing&#039; more than one thing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (8)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi || djuno || le || du&#039;u || zo&#039;ekau || klama || zo&#039;ekau&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I || know || the || statement || the something unspecified (correct value known) || goes to || the store.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;7&amp;quot; | I know who went/is going where.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another case of indirect question is the other interpretation of the English (4). This variety is more easily handled:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (9)&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
| mi || djuno || tu&#039;a || le || jei || la djan. || klama || le || zarci || ja || le || zdani || &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I || know || [something about] || the || truth-value of || John || goes to || the || store || or || the || house, || [namely the value].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;13&amp;quot; | I know whether John goes to the store or to the house.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;kaunai&amp;quot;, the negated form of &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot;, will need some semantic exploration. In the above sentence, I would interpret &amp;quot;jikaunai&amp;quot; to cause the meaning:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I know that John goes to the store or to the house, but not which.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, &amp;quot;kaunai&amp;quot; is more useful in a sentence even more &#039;indirect&#039;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|+ (10)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| la .alis&lt;br /&gt;
| djica&lt;br /&gt;
| lenu&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| djuno&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| du&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
| klama&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zarci&lt;br /&gt;
| jikaunai&lt;br /&gt;
| le&lt;br /&gt;
| zdani&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Alice&lt;br /&gt;
| wants&lt;br /&gt;
| the-event that:&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| know&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| predication&lt;br /&gt;
| [John&lt;br /&gt;
| goes to&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| store&lt;br /&gt;
| (Connection-unknown)&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| house]&lt;br /&gt;
| holds.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| colspan=&amp;quot;15&amp;quot; | Alice wants me to know whether John goes to the store or to the house (I don&#039;t).&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;kau&amp;quot; had been used, the statement would imply that I do know. Finally, by using the discursive operator &amp;quot;se&#039;inai&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;other-centered&amp;quot;) we could twist the meaning to imply whether Alice knows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The role of BAI ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many of these changes are tied to the use of selma&#039;o BAI, and we were forced to re-examine what these are. Although it was not the original intent, BAI has evolved towards being an exact equivalent of the gismu which we selected as a memory hook, or as an abbreviation for a specific FIhO construct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original intent in creating BAI was to decide on certain useful or needed roles that could or should be useful in expanding bridi, and then to pick words for them. As a basis for this we used Jim Brown&#039;s earlier work for Loglan, coupled with some research into case theory, and the everyday, if malglico (&amp;quot;English-biased&amp;quot;), analysis of English prepositional and subordinate phrases.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Institute Loglan has TWO sets of these - case tags that are usable only to label place structure places, and &#039;modal relative phrases&#039; which are used to attach non-place structure terms. There is some overlap and some commonalty between these. The two are not interchangeable - the case tags are more like our FA tags. We wanted to have the capability that Jim Brown intended for &#039;case tags&#039; without the restrictions and duality. BAI was formed with the intention that every place structure place could be labelled more or less accurately with one of these. We&#039;ve since decided that there can be no all-inclusive set of &#039;case tags&#039; for Loglan/Lojban since there is no theoretical limit to the number of places in a bridi, and each place must have a different tag.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of this evolution, some members of selma&#039;o BAI have been dropped, and one fairly useful one has been changed to clarify its meaning and to make it still more useful. The old &amp;quot;ci&#039;a&amp;quot; was eliminated, and &amp;quot;fi&#039;e&amp;quot; was assigned (the old &amp;quot;fi&#039;e&amp;quot; was moved elsewhere, as mentioned above), tying the word to &amp;quot;finti&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;create/invent&amp;quot;) instead of the malglico reference in the old word to &amp;quot;ciska&amp;quot;, whose keyword is &amp;quot;write&amp;quot;, but refers to the &amp;quot;inscribe&amp;quot; sense of that word. Some uses of old &amp;quot;ci&#039;a&amp;quot; are better expressed with &amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot;, also in BAI and based on &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;cu&#039;u&amp;quot; refers to the &amp;quot;expresser&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;fi&#039;e&amp;quot; to the &amp;quot;creator&amp;quot;. Thus (example from John Cowan, who proposed this change):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| nelci&lt;br /&gt;
| la&lt;br /&gt;
| .apasionatas.&lt;br /&gt;
| ne&lt;br /&gt;
| fi&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
| la betoven.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| love&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| Appassionata,&lt;br /&gt;
| composed&lt;br /&gt;
| by&lt;br /&gt;
| Beethoven.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mi&lt;br /&gt;
| nelci&lt;br /&gt;
| la&lt;br /&gt;
| .apasionatas.&lt;br /&gt;
| pe cu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
| la artr. rubenstain.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| I&lt;br /&gt;
| love&lt;br /&gt;
| the&lt;br /&gt;
| Appassionata&lt;br /&gt;
| performed (expressed) by&lt;br /&gt;
| Artur Rubenstein.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; contrast, reflected in the English only in whether a comma appears after &amp;quot;Appassionata&amp;quot;; there is only one Appassionata as composed, but there are many performances of which I am specifying Rubenstein&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Loose Ends ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A couple of loose ends fell out along with the above changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to &amp;quot;co&#039;e&amp;quot;, we added the corresponding unspecified relation tag in selma&#039;o BAI, &amp;quot;do&#039;e&amp;quot;. As with &amp;quot;co&#039;e&amp;quot;, a memory hook is &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;, the elliptically unspecified sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;co&#039;e&amp;quot; can be used as its own rafsi in compounds. Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;epre = &amp;quot;unspecified type of person&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This could be used in parallel and contrasting structures in lujvo, such as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ti&lt;br /&gt;
| xaupre&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| This&lt;br /&gt;
| is-a-good-person.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ti&lt;br /&gt;
| xlapre&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| This&lt;br /&gt;
| is-a-bad-person.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ti || co&#039;epre&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| This || is-an-unspecified-person.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, a story written by long-time Lojbanist Bob Chassell, with a couple of corrections by John Cowan, and Bob and Nora LeChevalier. But the corrections were minor. The most significant change is the incorporation of the sumti-raising changes in one sentence, which was a superb example of where such sumti-raising is needed to preserve the logical character of the language. The translation section later in this issue gives some stylistic comments that would make things clearer or perhaps more standard, but we know the language is getting somewhere when comments are on stylistics rather than communicating basic ideas. I&#039;m reasonably sure that most anyone can understand this story with word list and only a most basic understanding of the grammar. It is thus printed double-spaced for those who wish to write translation notes as they read. (Note that &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot; is defined in the preceding article.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lo zekri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fi&#039;e la bab. tcySEL.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cadzu pagre le vorme le kumfa .i lo xadni pe le nanmu cu vreta lo loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi viska le flecu be loi ciblu bei fo le xadni .i mi sisku loi sinxa be le zekri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi viska loi kevna pe loi danti ge&#039;u be lo sefta be lo jubme .ije mi viska lo nu loi cukta pu farlu lo kajna lo jubme e lo loldi .ije mi viska lo nu lo canko cu kalri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi catlu lo plita ke bartu drudi noi lo&#039;e prenu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cusku fi la tam. noi pulji ku&#039;o fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu pe&#039;i le zekri prenu pu cpare le plita ke bartu drudi le canko pe le kumfa li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la tam. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ia. ie. .i ko catlu le kevna be le bitmu be&#039;o poi ke&#039;a trixe le pixra .i le kevna cu vasru lo tanxe .ije ri kunti zo&#039;e li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la tam. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;e le tanxe pu vasru loi rupnu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi catlu le vorme pe le tanxe pe le bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ba&#039;a le stela cu porpi .i .ua .ue mi facki lo za&#039;i ge lo vorme gi lo stela na porpi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cusku fi la tam. fe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le minra pu farlu lo bitmu lo loldi gi&#039;e pu porpi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la tam. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu pe&#039;i le morsi nanmu pu lacpu le minra lo loldi lo bitmu .i se&#039;o mi&#039;o catlu lo sinxa da poi ke&#039;a vajni lo nu sisku li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la tam. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ra&#039;u ju&#039;e lo prenu poi ke&#039;a pu sazri le stela lo za&#039;i kalri ku&#039;o djuno fi lo tadji be lo pu&#039;u kalri sazri le tanxe vorme li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai tu&#039;a le zekri prenu goi ko&#039;a ge kalri rinka le stela tanxe ginai spofu rinka tu&#039;a ri gi ko&#039;a cu djuno fi lo pu&#039;u kalri sazri le tanxe vorme .i .ua ru&#039;a ko&#039;a catlu le se minra be le nu kalri sazri le stela tanxe vorme sepi&#039;o lo darno ke catlu cabra li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Versions of the Theory of Linguistic Relativity ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== INTRODUCTION ===&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis,&amp;quot; which asserts that one&#039;s native language determines in some fashion the nature of one&#039;s experience and that members of different linguistic communities will necessarily inhabit different experiential worlds, has its roots in the ideas of eighteenth-and nineteenth-century thinkers like Giambattista Vico and Wilhelm von Humboldt. [See George Steiner, After Babel: Aspects of Language and Translation (London: Oxford Univ. Press, c. 1975), pp. 73ff.] The emergence of this hypothesis reflects the growing willingness of European civilization over the past couple of centuries to take other cultures and their &amp;quot;world-views&amp;quot; seriously, not only as curiosities of interest to scholars (especially anthropologists), but as evidence of the range of possible human experience. The formulation of the hypothesis, associated with the names of Edward Sapir and Benjamin Lee Whorf, had to await what Noam Chomsky has called the &amp;quot;Boas tradition&amp;quot; of anthropological linguists, early-twentieth century scholars engaged in empirical studies of American Indian languages. [See Chomsky, &amp;quot;Linguistic Contributions to the Study of Mind: Future,&amp;quot; rpt. in Language in Thinking: Selected Readings, ed. Parveen Adams (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1973), pp. 336ff.] The hypothesis is emphatically not the a priori doctrine of linguists seduced by a philosophical tradition, but a proposal advanced by investigators who actually took the trouble to confront &amp;quot;alien&amp;quot; languages and cultures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What does the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis claim? If it were true, what phenomena would we encounter and be equipped to explain? In a fairly recent article in the American Anthropologist (1984), Paul Kay and Willett Kempton reduce the Hypothesis to three propositions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Structural differences between language systems will, in general, be paralleled by non-linguistic cognitive differences, of an unspecified sort, in the native speakers of the two languages.&lt;br /&gt;
* The structure of anyone&#039;s native language strongly influences or fully determines the world-view he will acquire as he learns the language.&lt;br /&gt;
* The semantic systems of different languages vary without constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot;What is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot; American Anthropologist 1984 (86), 66. Kay and Kempton&#039;s formulation is based upon the thinking of Roger Brown and, through him, Eric Lenneberg.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As this series of propositions suggests, one can distinguish two possible sources of &amp;quot;Whorfian effects&amp;quot;: (1) differences in &amp;quot;linguistic structure&amp;quot; and (2) differences in &amp;quot;semantics.&amp;quot; (Strictly speaking, of course, the &amp;quot;semantic system&amp;quot; of a language, the division of experience embodied in its lexicon, is a part of its &amp;quot;structure.&amp;quot; For, in linguistics, &amp;quot;structure&amp;quot; is really a synonym for &amp;quot;system.&amp;quot;) Whorfians typically emphasize linguistic &amp;quot;structure&amp;quot; in a fairly limited sense. Thus, they tend to argue that the structure of one&#039;s native language will, by encouraging a particular manner of structuring one&#039;s report of experience, have the effect of shaping one&#039;s perception of the world. One will tend to note in perception, that which one&#039;s grammar asks one to report in utterance. &amp;quot;Structure&amp;quot; embodies, and imposes upon the speaker, a metaphysics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The semantic organization of one&#039;s language will similarly shape one&#039;s experience of the world. This is the implication of Whorfian arguments that make appeal to such facts as the number of words that the Eskimos have for the English concept &amp;quot;snow.&amp;quot; If one approaches the semantic system of language in a Whorfian spirit, this system will be viewed as an arbitrary segmentation of the experienced world. We divide up the continuum of experience in &amp;quot;culturally pertinent&amp;quot; ways, to use a phrase borrowed from the semiologist Umberto Eco, in accordance with our needs as members of cultural groups confronting particular physical and social environments. The lexicon of our language, by the categories it defines, affords us ways to make distinctions in the experienced world and, by its omissions, discourages other, logically possible distinctions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In short, according to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, one will &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; what the structure of one&#039;s language asks one to see and one will &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; -- as separate things -- what the semantic system of one&#039;s language defines as discrete semantic units.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Saussurean Sign-Theory ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is sometimes thought that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis has been discredited and relegated to the trash-heap of intellectual history. Certainly, it is true that mainstream linguists, influenced by Noam Chomsky, tend to dismiss the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis no matter how judiciously it is reformulated. One could hardly expect any other response, since Chomskian linguists are committed almost as a matter of faith to the notion that the differences between human languages must be superficial and even trivial. If one accepts the Chomskian theory of a &amp;quot;universal grammar,&amp;quot; one will be compelled to dismiss any attempt, no matter how empirical its grounds, to justify the Whorfian argument that &amp;quot;grammars&amp;quot; vary enough to affect the structure of human experience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever mainstream linguists say, the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is alive and well in the popular mind and in the academic mind -- at least outside of the discipline of linguistics. Many feminists, for example, believe that the structure of English imposes upon its speakers a patriarchal metaphysics. (English customarily subsumes the feminine under the masculine in its pronoun system, as in expressions like &amp;quot;To each his own.&amp;quot;) In the disciplines customarily termed the humanities, particularly those that investigate literature and culture, versions of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis are widely taken for granted; the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, in some version, is the premise of many currently dominant methodologies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Take for instance modern &amp;quot;sign-theory.&amp;quot; Semiology or &amp;quot;sign-theory,&amp;quot; popularized by structuralism and post-structuralism, embraces an equivalent of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. Some &amp;quot;sign-theorists&amp;quot; even look back to Whorf as a precursor. Modern &amp;quot;sign-theory,&amp;quot; rooted in the work of the Swiss linguist Ferdinand De Saussure, posits an initial moment when the human subject enters &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; and at the same time a certain culture-bound experiential world. In first language acquisition an arbitrary system for organizing raw experience begins to be imposed upon the mind. Subjects learn how to segment experience into the units specified by the language they acquire as infants; they divide the continuum of experience into the &amp;quot;semantic units&amp;quot; that semiologists call &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; -- i.e., the conceptual elements of &amp;quot;signs.&amp;quot; [According to semiological theory, every &amp;quot;sign&amp;quot; consists of a &amp;quot;signifier&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;expression&amp;quot; and a &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;content&amp;quot;: every linguistic sign, for instance, unites a combination of sounds or a series of written symbols (the signifier) with a concept (the signified).]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Semiologists typically pay special attention to the array of &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; posited by a linguistic community, i.e., the units into which the community divides the continuum of the experienced world, and to the network of relations by which these &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; are interrelated, i.e., the system of connotative links by which units belonging to different semantic fields are linked with one another.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, semiology takes for granted one of the crucial corollaries of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, namely, that in acquiring the semantic system of a language one embraces a particular &amp;quot;map&amp;quot; of experience. A semantic system divides the continuum of experience into units -- &amp;quot;things,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;states,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;processes,&amp;quot; and so forth -- and links these units, one to another, in a web of relations of opposition and affinity. Green is, for instance, differentiated from yellow on the one hand and blue on the other: green exists as a unit in opposition to adjacent units in the same semantic field. At the same time, green is linked metaphorically, in relations of affinity, to units belonging to different semantic fields, for instance, such units as nature, life, youth, and jealousy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In suggesting that &amp;quot;raw experience&amp;quot; -- what Whorf calls &amp;quot;the kaleidoscopic flux of impressions&amp;quot; -- is organized by the human mind after its embrace of a particular sign-system, Saussurean sign-theory simply reformulates the Whorfian Hypothesis. According to this reformulation, the lexicon of one&#039;s native language imposes a system of categories on one&#039;s experience; the lexicon imposes on the speaker an arbitrary differentiation of the continuum of experience into semantic units -- or, in the terminology of semiology, &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;culturally pertinent units.&amp;quot; At the same time each language imposes on the speaker a network of relations of affinity between these semantic units. This system of categories and the accompanying network of associations constitute the &amp;quot;map&amp;quot; of experience offered by each language to its native speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A WORKING BIBLIOGRAPHY ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note on the bibliography:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this bibliography I attempt to trace the development of the &amp;quot;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&amp;quot; from the early decades of the twentieth-century to the present. The items included in the bibliography range in date from 1911 to 1990. While the bibliography makes no claims to completeness, it does represent an attempt (1) to clarify the role of earlier ethnologists, including Boas and Sapir, in the formulation of what is often called simply &amp;quot;the Whorfian Hypothesis,&amp;quot; (2) to chart the career of the Hypothesis from the 1940&#039;s to the 1980&#039;s, and (3) to draw attention to the kindred thinking of semiologists working in the tradition of Saussurean linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bibliography is not alphabetical; entries are arranged by category and date.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In compiling this working bibliography I have cannibalized, without shame, the following lists of references: Wallace L. Anderson and Norman Stageberg, eds., Introductory Readings on Language (New York: Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 1975), pp. 38ff.; Ben G. Blount, ed., Language, Culture, and Society: A Book of Readings (Cambridge, Mass.: Winthrop, 1974); Ralph Dumain, &amp;quot;Bibliography on Language and Thought,&amp;quot; ju&#039;i lobypli (The Logical Language Group), March, 1990, 36-38; John J. Gumperz, &amp;quot;Reader&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;Interactional Sociolinguistics (Anthropology 270B),&amp;quot; University of California, Berkeley, Fall, 1986; John Parks-Clifford, [Note], ju&#039;i lobypli (The Logical Language Group), Dec., 1989, p. 44; and Bob LeChevalier [and Alan Munn], ju&#039;i lobypli, March, 1991, pp. 57ff. I want to thank Bob LeChevalier and the Logical Language Group for arguing incessantly about the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and my colleague Barbara Grant for loaning me a copy of Gumperz&#039;s &amp;quot;Reader.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 1a. The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis: Formulation ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ben G. Blount, ed., Language, Culture, and Society: A Book of Readings (Cambridge, Mass.: Winthrop, 1974). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This sourcebook includes important selections from Boas, Sapir, Whorf, and Hoijer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Franz Boas, &amp;quot;Theoretical Importance of Linguistic Studies,&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;Introduction&amp;quot; to the Handbook of American Indian Languages, F. Boas, ed., Bulletin 40, Part II, Bureau of American Ethnology (Washington, D. C.: Government Printing Office, 1911). Reprinted in Blount, pp. 23-31.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lucien Levy-Bruhl, How Natives Think (N.Y.: Knopf, 1925), pp. 139-180.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Willis D. Wallis, An Introduction to Anthropology (N.Y.: Harper and Row, 1926), pp. 416-431.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edward Sapir, &amp;quot;The Unconscious Patterning of Behavior in Society,&amp;quot; in The Unconscious: A Symposium, ed. E. S. Drummer (New York: Knopf, 1927). Reprinted in Blount, pp. 32-45.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- - - - - - , &amp;quot;Conceptual Categories in Primitive Languages,&amp;quot; Science 74 (1931). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- - - - - - , &amp;quot;Language,&amp;quot; Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences, ed. Seligman and Johnson (New York: Macmillan, 1933). Reprinted in Blount, pp. 46-66.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Benjamin Lee Whorf, Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, ed. John B. Carroll (Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 1956). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The most revealing essays are, in my opinion, &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (1940) and &amp;quot;Languages and Logic&amp;quot; (1941). Another interesting essay, reprinted in Blount as well as in Carroll&#039;s selection, is &amp;quot;The Relation of Habitual Thought and Behavior to Language&amp;quot; (1939).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also the essays &amp;quot;An American Indian Model of the Universe&amp;quot; (c. 1936), &amp;quot;A Linguistic Consideration of Thinking in Primitive Communities&amp;quot; (c. 1936), &amp;quot;Linguistics as an Exact Science&amp;quot; (1940), and &amp;quot;Language, Mind, and Reality&amp;quot; (1941).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 1b. The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis: Career ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M. J. Herskovits, Man and His Works (N.Y.: Knopf, 1947), pp. 440-457.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clyde Kluckhohn, &amp;quot;The Gift of Tongues, in Mirror for Man: A Survey of Human Behavior and Social Attitudes (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1949), Chapter VI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John B. Carroll, The Study of Language (Cambridge, Mass., 1953), pp. 43-48.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harry Hoijer, &amp;quot;The Relation of Language to Culture,&amp;quot; in Anthropology Today, ed. A. L. Kroeber (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1953), pp. 554- 573.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harry Hoijer, ed., Language in Culture, Comparative Studies of Cultures and Civilizations, No. 3; Memoirs of the American Anthropological Association, No. 79 (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Pr., 1954). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The proceedings of a 1953 conference on the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harry Hoijer, &amp;quot;The Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&amp;quot; (1953), reprinted in Hoijer (1954) and in Blount (1974).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
R. Brown, &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism and Parts of Speech,&amp;quot; Journal of Abnormal Social Psychology 55 (1957), 1-5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
R. Brown and E. Lenneberg, &amp;quot;Studies in Linguistic Relativity,&amp;quot; in E. Macroby, T. H. Newcomb, and E. L. Hartley, eds., Readings in Social Psychology, 3rd edition (New York: Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 1958), 9-18. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John B. Carroll and Joseph B. Casagrande, &amp;quot;The Function of Language Classification in Behavior,&amp;quot; in Readings in Social Psychology (1958), 18- 31.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Hanle, Language, Thought, and Culture (Ann Arbor: Univ. of Michigan Press, 1958). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Summarizing the results of a conference held at U. Mich. in 1951-2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Roger Brown, Words and Things (N.Y.: Free Press, 1958), pp. 229-63.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
J. Fishman, &amp;quot;A Systematization of the Whorfian Hypothesis,&amp;quot; Behavioral Science 5 (1960), 232-39.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; Scientific American 202 (1960), 53-63. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Describes an effort in linguistic engineering designed to create an artificial language that would permit the Whorfian Hypothesis to be tested.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John B. Carroll, &amp;quot;Language and Cognition,&amp;quot; in Language and Thought (Englewood Cliffs, N. J., 1964). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;See especially 106-110 (&amp;quot;The linguistic-relativity thesis&amp;quot;), which offers a critique of the strong version of the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
James Cooke Brown, Loglan I (Gainesville, Fla.: The Loglan Institute, 1966). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Brown&#039;s book was revised in 1975 and 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dell Hymes, &amp;quot;Two Types of Linguistic Relativity,&amp;quot; in Sociolinguistics: Proceedings of the UCLA Sociolinguistics Conference (1964), ed. W. Bright, Janua Linguarum Series, 20 (The Hague: Mouton, 1968), 114-167.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arnold M. Zwicky, Review of Brown&#039;s Loglan I, Language 45:2 (1969), 444-457. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;See also John Cowan (1991), below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Roger Brown, Psycholinguistics: Selected Papers (N.Y.: Free Press, 1970), pp. 235-256.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John MacNamara, &amp;quot;Bilingualism and Thought,&amp;quot; Georgetown University Round Table on Languages and Linguistics 1970: Bilingualism and Language Contact, ed. by James E. Alatis (Washington: Georgetown University Press, 1970), pp. 25-45. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Critical of the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ferruccio Rossi-Landi, Ideologies of Linguistic Relativity (The Hague: Mouton, 1973). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Includes consideration of the sociological roots of the doctrine of linguistic relativity, including white guilt over the extermination of the Indians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Noam Chomsky, Introduction to Adam Schiff, Language and Cognition (1964), tr. Olgierd Wojtasiewicz and ed. Robert S. Cohen (N. Y.: McGraw-Hill, 1973). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Critique of the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adam Schiff, Language and Cognition (1964), tr. Olgierd Wojtasiewicz and ed. Robert S. Cohen (N. Y.: McGraw-Hill, 1973). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Historical account of linguistic theory (from the 18th century on): background to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ronald W. Langacker, &amp;quot;Semantic Representations and the Linguistic Relativity Hypothesis,&amp;quot; in Foundations of Language 14 (1976), 307-357. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The author &amp;quot;tries to formulate the hypothesis in a non-vacuous manner, and ultimately rejects the strong version, basing himself on a distinction between primary conceptual structures and the semantic representations into which thought is coded&amp;quot; (R. Dumain).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Danny K. Alford, &amp;quot;The Demise of the Whorf Hypothesis (A Major Revision in the History of Linguistics),&amp;quot; Proceedings of the 4th Annual Meeting of the Berkeley Linguistic Society, 4 (1978), 485-99.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Friedrich, Language, Context, and the Imagination: Essays by Paul Friedrich, selected and introduced by A. S. Dil (Stanford: Stanford Univ. Press, 1979). &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Friedrich disagrees with Whorf&#039;s views on language and metaphysics, but accepts the strong thesis in the realm of poetic language and its relation to the imagination&amp;quot; (R. Dumain).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Kay and Willett Kempton, &amp;quot;What Is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot; American Anthropologist 86 (1984), 65- 79. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Discusses the content of the Hypothesis and reviews empirical research that attempts to test it; reports experimental confirmation of a modified version of the Hypothesis in the area of color perception.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Frederick J. Newmeyer, The Politics of Linguistics (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1986).&lt;br /&gt;
A history of linguistic theory that attacks the Whorfian Hypothesis as racist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David McNeill, &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism: The Whorfian Hypothesis,&amp;quot; in Psycholinguistics: A New Approach (New York: Harper and Row, 1987), Ch. 6, pp. 173-209.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, ju&#039;i lobypli (1988-1991).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A variety of discussions of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis from the perspective of Lojbanists: see Aug.-Sep., 1988; Dec., 1988; June-July, 1989; Nov.-Dec., 1989; March, 1990; May, 1990; August, 1990; and March, 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan, &amp;quot;Loglan and Lojban: A Linguist&#039;s Questions and an Amateur&#039;s Answers,&amp;quot; ju&#039;i lobypli (March 1991), pp. 21ff.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Responding to Zwicky&#039;s review of Brown&#039;s Loglan I.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 2. Semiology and the Thesis of Linguistic Relativity. ====&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following list by no means represents the field of semiology as a whole; I have limited myself to a handful of texts that I have found useful in the classroom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ferdinand de Saussure, Course in General Linguistics (1915), tr. Wade Baskin (New York: Philosophical Library, 1959), pp. 7-17, 65-78, and 111-122.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Seminal sections from Saussure&#039;s lectures, laying the foundations for modern sign-theory (semiology or semiotics).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pierre Guiraud, Semiology (1975).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A reasonably good primer, introducing sign-theory and its application to various areas of human experience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System,&amp;quot; Structuralism: An Introduction, ed. David Robey, (1973), pp. 57-72. - - - - - , &amp;quot;How Culture Conditions the Colours We See,&amp;quot; On Signs, ed. Marshall Blonsky (1985), pp. 157-175.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This essay and &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System&amp;quot; provide a useful introduction to the semiological equivalent of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Takao Suzuki, Words in Context: A Japanese Perspective on Language and Culture (1973), tr. Akira Miura (Tokyo: Kodansha International, 1978; rev., 1984).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A richly suggestive comparison of the languages and cultures of Japanese speakers and English speakers. The book presents, and offers empirical evidence for, a theory of linguistic relativity similar in spirit to those of Whorfians and Saussurean semiologists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Lucy, &amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s View of the Linguistic Mediation of Thought,&amp;quot; in Semiotic Mediation: Sociocultural and Psychosocial Perspectives, ed. E. Mertz and R. J. Parmentier (Orlando: Academic Press, 1985).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 3. Related Studies ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B. Comrie, ed., The World&#039;s Major Languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Descriptive text used in the design of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brent Berlin and Paul Kay, Basic Color Terms (Berkeley: Univ. of Calif. Press, 1968), esp. pp. 1-14.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
George Steiner, After Babel: Aspects of Language and Translation London: Oxford Univ. Press, c. 1975), esp. pp. 73-109: Linguistic relativism (including Whorf) vs. linguistic universalism (Chomsky).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Useful for its discussion of the philosophical tradition that lies behind the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eleanor Rosch, &amp;quot;Classification of Real-World Objects: Origins and Representations in Cognition,&amp;quot; MS, University of California, Berkeley, c. 1975.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Criticizes, on empirical grounds, the idea that experience is a continuum arbitrarily segmented by the mind. Available from E. Rosch, c/o Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Calif., Berkeley, Berkeley, CA 94720.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
George Lakoff and Mark Johnson, Metaphors We Live By (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, 1980).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The authors make an important study of the metaphorical basis of language. In the final chapters they argue for an extreme relativism&amp;quot; (R. Dumain).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred H. Bloom, The Linguistic Shaping of Thought: A Study in the Impact of Language on Thinking in China and the West (Hillsdale, N.J.: L. Erlbaum, 1981), pp. 13-36.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The Distinctive Cognitive Legacies of English and Chinese,&amp;quot; especially the sections &amp;quot;Counterfactuals in English and Chinese&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Theoretical Extensions.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
George Lakoff, Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things: What Categories Reveal About the Mind (Chicago: Univ. of Chicago Press, c. 1987). How human beings segment and order their experience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CONCLUDING NOTE: This is only a working bibliography; I welcome the assistance of other interested scholars. Please send comments, criticisms, corrections, and suggested additions and deletions, to the following address:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Department of English&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;St. Mary&#039;s College&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Moraga, Calif. 94575&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for a lighter piece of Lojban text. The following bit is from John Cowan, and he uses &amp;quot;rinka&amp;quot; in the intended uncleft place structures manner. He noted in submitting it that he made no grammatical errors - the parser accepted it the first time. For those trying to read it, &amp;quot;clupe&#039;as. xarengus.&amp;quot; is a Lojbanization of the Linnean binomial for &amp;quot;herring&amp;quot;. A translation will be found later in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== pamoi xamrei ra&#039;a lo verba ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la paf. cusku lu pau mazo&#039;o crino gi&#039;e dandu le bitmu gi&#039;e siclu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku lu .uanai mi na djuno li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku lu .ui lo me la clupe&#039;as. xarengus. finpe li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku lu ia ri goi ko&#039;a na crino li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku lu fu&#039;i le nu ko gasnu cu rinka le nu ko&#039;a ba crino li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku lu .iasai ko&#039;a ba&#039;e na dandu le bitmu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku lu fu&#039;isai le nu ko gasnu cu rinka le nu ko&#039;a ba dandu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku lu iacai ko&#039;a ba&#039;e ba&#039;e na siclu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku lu fu&#039;icai mi pu cusku lo jitfa li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== On Loglan and Lojban Elidables ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following paper was written by Jeff Prothero as an answer to criticism of the use of elidable tokens in Loglan formal grammars. The argument applies to Lojban as well as to any other version of Loglan grammar, provided that the grammar abides by the defining rules of Bracket Languages (I am not sure that current Institute Loglan still abides by these defining rules - comment is sought from anyone who has such knowledge.) The reference to GU in the title is to the older Loglan RightBracket selma&#039;o that in Lojban was changed to KU. The title is thus a bit of a pun for Lojbanists, since the &#039;GU&#039; is gone from our selma&#039;o list as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The GU is Gone!&lt;br /&gt;
Elidable Terminators in Logical Languages&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright (c) 1989 Jeff Prothero&lt;br /&gt;
Reprinted with permission from the author.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The elision of trailing terminators has been a prime problem for everyone seriously working to understand the Lo**an grammar. This paper is a first attempt to deal with this problem. The major questions to resolve:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* When can terminators be elided?&lt;br /&gt;
* When would such elision introduce ambiguity?&lt;br /&gt;
* How does one recover the full syntax of a sentence containing such elisions?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first step is to establish a simple analytical model, which exhibits the relevant problems without extraneous detail and complexity. We consider the Bracket Languages BL, defined by the following grammatical properties:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each grammatical construct consists of a leading LeftBracket token, a trailing RightBracket token, and some number of substructures trapped between these two tokens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Every token is either a LeftBracket or a RightBracket.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No token is both a LeftBracket and a RightBracket.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Every LeftBracket has a unique matching RightBracket.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that we do not require that each RightBracket have a unique matching LeftBracket.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sample Bracket Language:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
start   -&amp;gt;   bracket | broket | &lt;br /&gt;
mixed                           &lt;br /&gt;
                                &lt;br /&gt;
bracket -&amp;gt;   &#039;[&#039;   &#039;]&#039;          &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;[&#039; start &#039;]&#039;      &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;[&#039; start start &#039;]&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                                &lt;br /&gt;
broket  -&amp;gt;   &#039;&amp;lt;&#039;   &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;          &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;&amp;lt;&#039; start &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;      &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;&amp;lt;&#039; start start &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
                                &lt;br /&gt;
mixed   -&amp;gt;   &#039;{&#039;   &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;          &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;{&#039; start &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;      &lt;br /&gt;
        |    &#039;{&#039; start start &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This grammar specifies the infinite set of strings:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[][]]&lt;br /&gt;
[{&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;gt;]&lt;br /&gt;
. . .&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For terseness, we would like to omit some of the trailing terminators &amp;quot;when no ambiguity would result&amp;quot;. The problem is to formally specify the latter constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From a mathematical-linguistic point of view, dropping some of the trailing terminators corresponds to adding various strings to the above language, such as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
{&lt;br /&gt;
[[]&lt;br /&gt;
[[][]&lt;br /&gt;
[{&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[{&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&lt;br /&gt;
[{&amp;gt;&amp;lt;]&lt;br /&gt;
. . .&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How do we specify the full set of strings to be added? Given such a string, how do we recover the full syntax?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I propose the following Augmentation Rule for adding the strings:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
IF &amp;quot;a]Bc&amp;quot; is in the language, where:&lt;br /&gt;
   &amp;quot;a&amp;quot; is any sequence of tokens&lt;br /&gt;
   &amp;quot;]&amp;quot; is any RightBracket&lt;br /&gt;
   &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; is any token&lt;br /&gt;
   &amp;quot;c&amp;quot; is any sequence of tokens&lt;br /&gt;
AND IF &amp;quot;aB&amp;quot; is not a prefix of any string in the language,&lt;br /&gt;
THEN we add &amp;quot;aBc&amp;quot; to the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given a Bracket Language BL, application of the Augmentation Rule until closure is achieved results in a new language BL&#039; which contains BL as a subset. Let us call BL&#039;-BL &amp;quot;E&amp;quot; (for &amp;quot;Elisions&amp;quot;). These are the strings&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
added to BL as a result of the Augmentation Rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Question 1: Does the Augmentation Rule introduce ambiguities?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us make the question more precise. Each e in E was derived from some parent p in BL (not BL&#039;!) by one or more applications of the Augmentation Rule. We want to know if this derivation was unique, or if some such e has two possible parents in BL. Formally: can there exist a pair &amp;lt;e,p&amp;gt;, e in E and p in BL with p -&amp;gt; (via repeated Augmentation Rule) e, such that r is in (BL- p)&#039;? If so our Augmentation Rule has introduced an ambiguity into the language by erasing an essential token, rather than merely a redundant token.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Answer 1: No such ambiguity is introduced by the Augmentation Rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROOF: Let us assume that such an ambiguity exists. Then either e, or some other string along the path from p to e, has two possible legitimate parents under the Augmentation Rule. Let us call this child c, and the two possible parents p0 and p1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then we have:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 p0 == &amp;quot;a]Bc&amp;quot; for some a,],B,c&lt;br /&gt;
 p1 == &amp;quot;a&amp;gt;Bc&amp;quot; for some &amp;gt; != ], same a,B,c.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now &amp;gt; and ] both match the same LeftBracket in &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;, since p0 and p1 are both strings from our Bracket Language. But each LeftBracket has a UNIQUE matching RightBracket, by our definition of Bracket Languages, hence we must have &amp;gt; == ], hence p0==p1, hence no such distinct parent-pair is possible. QED.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Question 2: Is a LALR(1) parser capable of detecting such elided tokens?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Answer 2: Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;a]Bc&amp;quot; has been reduced to &amp;quot;aBc&amp;quot;, then we must have the condition that &amp;quot;aB&amp;quot; is not a legal prefix of any string in BL. But an LALR(1) parser has a table which tells it, at any given instant, the legal set of lookahead tokens. If the current lookahead token is not in that set, there will be at most one RightBracket in the lookahead set, by a simple variant of the above argument. The parser can then insert that unique RightBracket in its input stream and continue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How Elidables Work in Loglan/Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Bob LeChevalier&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would love it if someone could solve the problem of specifying elidability rules, but I can only do so in generalities without making specific reference to YACC&#039;s LALR(1) algorithm. Specifically, the elidables are optional if, using the YACC algorithm, a parser looking at the next token after an omitted elidable, does not find it valid. Instead it performs error processing which sticks in the elidable and this in turn moves it to a new state.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus in &amp;quot;le nanmu klama le zarci&amp;quot;, after &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot; a parser will read &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; and determine that a tanru is continuing. It reads &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, which is not legal after &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; by any rule, and inserts &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;. It inserts &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and other elidable terminators based on the order of constructs; it sticks in the &#039;tightest bound&#039; elidable - in this case the terminator for the first &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; construct. The result is a grammatical parse - as two sumti without a selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably the speaker intended &amp;quot;le nanmu cu klama le zarci&amp;quot;, but the parser cannot determine this, because YACC will not stick in an elidable unless it finds an invalid token.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For another example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*le nanmu joi le ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is ungrammatical (though perfectly understandable to humans) because of the &#039;1&#039; in LALR(1).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; is legal and moves the grammar to a state (using the formal grammar rule for &amp;quot;joikjeks&amp;quot;) where it expects a token valid in a selbri (i.e.; it expects something like the valid:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le nanmu joi ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
= the hermaphrodite).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not finding a selbri word (of which some 20 or 30 selma&#039;o are legal in the first position by SOME rule or another), it then tries to stick in the elidables from shortest scope termination to longest. But none of these are legal in the position AFTER joi where we are looking:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*le nanmu joi ku/cu/vau/...&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
so the parser rejects the phrase. To non-logically join two sumti with joi under the formal grammar rule for &amp;quot;joikek&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; cannot be elided before the &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; and the following is grammatical:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le nanmu ku joi le ninmu&lt;br /&gt;
The team of the man/men joined with the woman/women&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Presumably a LALR(2) (looking ahead 2 tokens) parser would be able to handle this particular elision, but Lojban is defined so as to satisfy LALR(1). There are other places that even 2 is not sufficient, but they less often involve elidables. Far more often, if you omit an elidable incorrectly, you will end up with another sentence/fragment that is valid but grammatically different. We thus recommend that where in doubt, or in noisy environments, use the added redundancy of including the elidable. We thus WANT the language to be defined so that elision is not mandatory if it is possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, the question: &amp;quot;Is there always enough information for someone to decide exactly when a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; or some other elidable is or is not required?&amp;quot; can be answered: yes, it is always possible. But you must know the entire grammar to always be able to decide. With an incomplete knowledge of the grammar, you may end up incorrectly eliding, and should err when uncertain on the side of not eliding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not as bad as it seems, because most problems that might arise (the &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; problem is unusual in this regard) occur because of multiple elision. Thus in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le nu mi klama le zarci cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
the complete specification with all elidables added is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lenu mi klama le zarci ku vau kei ku cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; separator, acting as the longest scope elidable, makes a wall that forces a parser to keep sticking in all the optionals until there are none left.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we had omitted the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, the parser would add in elidables only at end of text giving the non-elided equivalent:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le nu mi klama le zarci xamgu ku vau kei ku vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It turns out that there is a valid Lojban interpretation that is not the one intended if you use any single one of those terminators besides &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; in the place where the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; would go. With no &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; and two elidables, you can get the correct interpretation with &amp;quot;ku ku&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;vau ku&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;kei ku&amp;quot;, but not with &amp;quot;ku vau&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ku kei&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;vau kei&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the average Lojbanists need not worry about these other forms - just use the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; when in even the slightest doubt, and you&#039;ll do fine. There is no stigma against including in an elidable terminator unnecessarily. Because of this, you do not need to know &#039;the whole grammar&#039; to speak Lojban. Only in complex nested constructs which you shouldn&#039;t be using if you don&#039;t know most of the grammar, are you likely to find situations where you might erroneously elide a terminator. Even there, by concentrating on just a few &#039;most-frequent errors&#039;, you will seldom make an error.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A History and Description of le&#039;avla in Loglan and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Bob LeChevalier&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those with 1975 dictionaries will find every chemical element was included twice, as a name, and as an &#039;S-prim&#039; (&amp;quot;le&#039;avla that looks like a gismu&amp;quot; if you are new to the project).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Though JCB disagrees, I believe it was a conversation between him and me in 1980 that led to the &amp;quot;3rd lineage&amp;quot; of borrowings (translation - the creation of a third form of brivla besides gismu and lujvo - the le&#039;avla).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His response proposal - the birth of le&#039;avla, was reported a month or so later in TL3/4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the time of GMR, JCB moved MOST of the &#039;S-prims&#039; into borrowing space. The &#039;algorithm&#039; for le&#039;avla was discussed in TL6/1 (1983). JCB then launched what he called the &amp;quot;Sciwords&amp;quot; project, to massively borrow words from many fields into the language. If there were any volunteers at the time, their work was never reported because TL folded followed by Lognet a year later after the 1983-4 political squabbles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB continued to work on the borrowings, and translated a few paragraphs of Scientific American (reprinted in 4th edition Loglan 1) that were heavy in scientific jargon to be borrowed. He once reported making borrowings for 50 kinds of cheese one night after reading an article on the subject. There have been some reports in recent Lognets that others have made some le&#039;avla and that the Sciwords project finally accomplished something, but no list has been published because of the Institute&#039;s trade secret policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Rebecca Bach and I visited JCB is May 86, we discussed borrowings, and specifically JCB&#039;s then current effort on remaking the element words into le&#039;avla as a test for his attempts to devise &amp;quot;fast-tracks to borrowing&amp;quot; that would evade the mind-stretching &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; test. They didn&#039;t. It turned out that we went through all of the elements and remade them, but found that there were few simple guidelines. (We did notice that -CVCV word-endings frequently give good le&#039;avla, as well as that it is easier to avoid &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; problems by making the initial consonant cluster not a permissible initial. Rebecca, a Loglan novice, proved better than either JCB or me at detecting flaws in le&#039;avla-making, but none of us were really good at it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB at this time made clear that a standard for scientific le&#039;avla making, unlike gismu, was visual recognition rather than aural recognition, since technical words are used in written language more than spoken language. JCB introduced borrowing-and-name-only lerfu for &amp;quot;W&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Q&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;X&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;Y&amp;quot; to make visually recognizable borrowings easier. (His version of the language uses &amp;quot;H&amp;quot; where we use &amp;quot;x&amp;quot;.) JCB&#039;s published examples show the priority on visual recognition of borrowings rather than aural recognition, but some rules seem to contradict this trend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB also felt that the beginning of the chemical element words should reflect the international symbol - the closest thing to an international &#039;word&#039; for the elements to be borrowed from. I still subscribe to this idea, though John Cowan does not. Ger- man has made non-international forms of some elements, and Chinese, with its word-forming restrictions, has non-international forms for all (but they often try to make a word that suggests the chemical symbol). The &amp;quot;Latinate forms&amp;quot; are really the English/ French forms, since those two languages have dominated the scientific publication field during the time of internationalization of science. We can&#039;t get around this &#039;Latinate bias&#039;, but feel that if a truly international standard exists, we should use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the 1986 visit to JCB, I went home, and reworked the element words, which were left hanging. The UL2 publication was 4 months later. Other than a discussion in JCB&#039;s Notebook 3, and Loglan 1 4th edition, and ensuing responses to my criticism of the latter, there has been minimal discussion of le&#039;avla until recently - although the culture words have been questioned by many new Lojbanists (who have generally been satisfied with my answers - again, until recently).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Four Flavors of le&#039;avla ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here was my 1979 argument and proposal for 4 &#039;flavors&#039; of borrowing. In attempting to translate the song &amp;quot;Man of La Mancha&amp;quot;, which as I&#039;ve reported was my own first attempt to use Loglan, there was no word for &amp;quot;trumpet&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;gauntlet&amp;quot;, etc. Even if there had been, in the context of the song, these words convey specific cultural values that are not inherent to the musical instrument or the piece of medieval armor. I tried to make a lujvo for each, but we&#039;re obviously talking 6-7 terms - really ugly!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had already noted that many/most of the gismu proposals being made were for plants/animals, etc. The limits on this set were effectively infinite, but gismu space wasn&#039;t. There did not seem to be any way to determine which plants or animals should get gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thus proposed to JCB a series of 4 steps to borrowing words. I still stand by these steps, though even in Lojban we haven&#039;t gotten past the third for any words yet, (and shouldn&#039;t). The element words and the culture words are the most likely candidates to be the first le&#039;avla of the fourth step:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Most borrowings are little more than names, and indeed are used as sumti. Thus to use a current example, la kromium. will do for most instances of the concept &amp;quot;Chromium&amp;quot;. In a rare instance where you need to use it in a selbri, you have &amp;quot;me la kromium.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. When a borrowing will be frequently used as a selbri, you want to coin a word, but don&#039;t want to go through the 6 (or 8 in old Loglan) languages research effort. So you just make up a nonce word, probably borrowing from your native language word for the concept, and then OVERTLY mark it as a borrowing. The marker was to be an unassigned cmavo, probably from the then partially unused &#039;hV&#039; set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This proposal survived into the initial Lojban design. A cmavo &amp;quot;le&#039;a&amp;quot; (no longer used for this purpose) would mark the following word as a nonce borrowing. This particular version lasted until a couple of months ago when John Cowan proposed the generalization to mark ANY nonce word usage using (instead) &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot;, now in selma&#039;o BAhE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This current design says that you coin a word, which must be a legal brivla (a lujvo or le&#039;avla, though one could coin an unofficial gismu as well, in theory) and not break down into multiple words. Marking this word by preceding it with &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot; means that you have just now coined the word, it may or may not conflict with another &#039;official&#039; meaning of the wordform. This is also a solution when you want to use an existing word but are afraid that your place structure usage may be totally unlike the dictionary definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Though not an approved practice, you could even make le&#039;avla in the form of gismu or lujvo if you mark them with &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot;. The permitted word-forms for le&#039;avla are defined primarily by exclusion (it can&#039;t break down into two words, it can&#039;t be a lujvo, or a gismu, it can&#039;t fail something called the &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; test), and coining nonce words is difficult, so this freedom is worth something for spontaneity in the use of Lojban by non-fluent speakers. I do not recommend intentionally invading lujvo space with le&#039;avla because, even in a nonce lujvo, the listener will presumably try to take the word apart into component rafsi. But let&#039;s face it; the people making nonce le&#039;avla will often be less than expert, and &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot; allows a good bit of margin for error.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It turns out that our design made &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot;-form le&#039;avla a bit useless anyway. &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot; will now be used more with lujvo than with borrowings because it turns out that it is virtually as easy to make step 3 le&#039;avla as step 2 nonce forms as described next. Because step 3 forms are limited to specific fields, and the method for making them is so simple. it is not necessary to mark these with &amp;quot;za&#039;e&amp;quot;. (It is of course permitted and may be recommended that you do so if you are a using a word in a field in which you are non-expert. This is like putting quote marks around the word to show that you may be being non-standard in the technical terminology.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Most of the le&#039;avla you see nowadays are step 3 le&#039;avla. These are names for concepts in specific semantic fields, Lojbanized into brivla-form by a most trivial process, and then marked with a classifier rafsi. Originally I proposed that classifier rafsi go on the end, making things look like lujvo: &amp;quot;kromium-xuki&amp;quot; (chromium-chemical). This is the proposal that was printed in UL2, the early version of JL from before the Institute/la lojbangirz. split. The reaction to UL2 was that people did not like the ending rafsi partly because these rafsi were CVCV form and were thus a second type of rafsi that had to be memorized. I then came up with the current design, which is described lightly in the Synopsis. John Cowan has codified the current process for step 3 le&#039;avla, and proposed a new list of chemical element le&#039;avla that are presumably valid by that process. (The list is too long to reprint here.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Simply, the step 3 le&#039;avla process is to use any standard rafsi, or even more than one like a lujvo (with some restrictions), as a classifier. You then take a Lojbanized form of the word to be borrowed, which must have:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* a final vowel&lt;br /&gt;
* no letter &#039;y&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
* no impermissible medial consonant pairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The classifier is &#039;glued on&#039; with a vocalic consonant &#039;l&#039;, &#039;n&#039;, or &#039;r&#039;, which also conveniently makes the first consonant cluster in the word NOT a permissible initial (&#039;m&#039; would be acceptable except when it might form the consonant clusters &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;mr&amp;quot;). Most of the problems in le&#039;avla coining result from the possibility of parts of the word absorbing sounds that are supposed to be part of adjacent words, with the combination then breaking up into different words than you intend.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most well-known (because difficult to check for) such le&#039;avla problem is that associated with the aforementioned &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; test - &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; can be seen to be an invalid le&#039;avla because if you use it with &amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;pa slinku&#039;i&amp;quot;, the sound stream is ambiguous and the listener hears &amp;quot;paslinku&#039;i&amp;quot;, a valid lujvo. Since le&#039;avla are defined so as never to cause conflict with gismu or lujvo, this form of le&#039;avla is invalid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The virtue of step 3, then, is that almost anyone can make nonce le&#039;avla with minimal learning. The resulting words are known not to fail the &amp;quot;*slinku&#039;i&amp;quot; test, they are flagged so that a listener knows he/she is hearing a le&#039;avla, that the word is some kind of nonce word, and that it is restricted to a specific jargon field which is identified. This is often all that is needed - since someone familiar with the jargon field will recognize the borrowed portion, and someone who doesn&#039;t can ask.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Step 3 and step 4 le&#039;avla can be used in lujvo. However they are always joined to adjacent rafsi by the hyphen syllable &amp;quot;iy&amp;quot;, and NO letters are deleted from the le&#039;avla: the &amp;quot;rafsi&amp;quot; form of a le&#039;avla is the le&#039;avla itself. The reason is shown by an example Nora invented while reviewing the 4th edition of Loglan 1 (1989), which had the type 4 le&#039;avla &amp;quot;protoni&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;*nukli&amp;quot; (not valid in Lojban, hence the asterisk). Without &amp;quot;iy&amp;quot; hyphenation in le&#039;avla-based lujvo, the le&#039;avla compound &amp;quot;*protonynukli&amp;quot; breaks into rafsi as &amp;quot;pro-ton-nukli&amp;quot; and is thus invalid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For easing recognition of le&#039;avla compounds, it has become standard to surround the &amp;quot;iy&amp;quot; joints with close-commas is print, ensuring that the hyphen is treated as a separate syllable and aiding visual recognition. An example is: &amp;quot;djarspageti,iy,sanso&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;spaghetti sauce&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. There are as yet no official step 4 le&#039;avla in Lojban, although some will probably be proposed as samples when we publish the reference book in a few months. An example might include &amp;quot;protoni&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;proton&amp;quot;), as mentioned above, which breaks no rules.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These words should be made by people skilled in Lojban wordmaking, and familiar with the previous body of such words to prevent conflicts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words need no classifier rafsi, and may utilize any of the valid le&#039;avla wordform space. As stated above, there is no simple algorithm for this space, and making these words correctly is a trial-and-error-aided-by-growing-experience process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban currently disallows le&#039;avla from invading gismu space to allow type 4 words like &amp;quot;*nukli&amp;quot;. This is primarily an aesthetic principle, since gismu like the culture words are in effect just such le&#039;avla. But we call them gismu, and they gain the key advantage of gismu-form in having shorter rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(A secondary principle which necessitates that any such le&#039;avla be made only under tightly controlled conditions, is that gismu must be prevented from what is called &#039;packing&#039;, being so alike in sound that noise or slight errors in pronunciation makes them easily misheard. Even with our experience in gismu making and with relatively simple rules on packing, we&#039;ve needed a computer check on the gismu making process that has found many conflicts missed by this tricky test.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have few useful standards yet for deciding that a word deserves this privilege enough to invade gismu space, other than the class decisions that were made for culture words and &amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot; which are themselves self-borrowings from malglico Lojban tanru - &amp;quot;cmalu-valsi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;pluja-valsi&amp;quot; for JCB&#039;s English &amp;quot;little words&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;LWs&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;complexes&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Cpxs&amp;quot;. So for a while at least, the bar against gismu-shaped le&#039;avla will continue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The qualification for a step 4 le&#039;avla is that it be a word used sufficiently often, probably outside of a single field of endeavor, that it violates Zipf&#039;s law to have such a frequent word be as long as step 3 le&#039;avla must inherently be. Step 4 le&#039;avla are a formal alternative to having Lojban suffer the irregular Zipfean shortenings that occur in natural language - like &amp;quot;teevee&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;television&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With no usage history yet, we&#039;ve never bothered to make standards for step 4 le&#039;avla. Recent discussion of culture words suggests that any culture whose name acquires any significant use in Lojban will get a step 4 le&#039;avla, giving more equality with the historical culture gismu. This will then answer most, if not all of the criticisms of the cultural gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Culture gismu Revisited: Cultural Neutrality and the gismu List ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan and Bob LeChevalier (with comments by Arthur Hyun and Bob Chassell)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following breaks down the cultural gismu, by category. All these words end in &amp;quot;-o&amp;quot; and we attempted to draw them from the relevant language directly rather than being manufactured through the usual process of combining the six source languages. Some words fall into more than one category.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Lojban itself: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lojbo || Lojbanic&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) The words for six source languages used in Lojban gismu-making: jungo Chinese glico English xindo Hindi spano Spanish rusko Russian xrabo Arabic&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) The words for six other widely spoken languages that were on the list of candidates for gismu-making: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
| bengo || Bengali&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fraso || French&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dotco || German&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ponjo || Japanese&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| porto || Portuguese&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| baxso || Malay-Indonesian&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The word for Japan is from &amp;quot;Nippon&amp;quot;; legal Lojbanizations of that word starting with &#039;n&#039; would not have been pronounceable by the Japanese with buffering the consonant cluster. The word for Malay-Indonesian is from their word &amp;quot;bahasa&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;language&amp;quot;, because they have no word for their common heritage other than that one.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4)&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xurdo || Urdu&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
is the name for Hindi written in Arabic script. It is culturally unacceptable to the Moslem speakers of the language to refer to it as Hindi, although linguists classify them as the same tongue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5) Large countries (gugde) which speak any of these 14 languages, where their names differ from the language names:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5a) glico gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko || American&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sralo || Australian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| brito || British&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kadno || Canadian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| skoto || Scottish&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5b) spano gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gento || Argentinian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mexco || Mexican&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xispo || Hispanic (generic term)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5c) rusko gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| softo || Soviet&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The current upheaval in the Soviet Union may affect the usefulness of this word, and may require a few new rusko gugde words for seceding states. We do not expect to make official changes before the reference book is published.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5d) xrabo gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jerxo || Algerian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| misro || Egyptian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| rakso || Iraqi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jordo || Jordanian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lubno || Lebanese&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| libjo || Libyan&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| morko || Moroccan&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sadjo || Saudi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sirxo || Syrian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| filso || Palestinian (include d for historical reasons and to be neutral in the ongoing cultural dispute in the Middle East&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5e) baxso gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bindo || Indonesian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| meljo || Malaysian&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5f) porto gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| brazo || Brazilian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| porto || Portuguese&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5g) xindo gugde: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kisto || Pakistani&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xindo || India (The Hindi name for India - &amp;quot;Bharat&amp;quot; could not be used due to rafsi packing.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6) The continents of the Earth:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| friko || African&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dzepo || Antarctic&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xazdo || Asiatic&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sralo || Australian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ropno || European&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bemro || North American&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| polno || Polynesian/Oceanian)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ketco || South American&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7) A few smaller cultures with widespread historical or cultural influence: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xelso || Greek&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xebro || Hebrew&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| latmo || Latin&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| srito || Sanskrit&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8) semto Semitic (Judeo-Arabic) is a major language family encompassing two of the major cultures included in the list. &amp;quot;Indo-European&amp;quot; is internationally a compound word, and was not given a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9) The major religions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| budjo || Buddhist&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xriso || Christian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xebro || Hebrew&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| muslo || Islamic&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jegvo || Jehovah/Yahweh(-ist) = Judeo-Christian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dadjo || Tao(-ist)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Note that the deities of these religions are NOT represented by the gismu. &amp;quot;la jegvon.&amp;quot; can be the Judeo-Christian deity. Note that while the Islamic deity &amp;quot;Allah&amp;quot; is considered the same as the Judeo-Christian one, cultural reasons require &amp;quot;la .alax.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All cultural words have the place structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 is &amp;lt;adjective&amp;gt; in property x2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but these words are expected to be seldom-used as bare selbri. Instead, they will be used in tanru and lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The primary cultural tanru/lujvo are the obvious ones. For example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko rupnu || meryru&#039;u || American dollar&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko fepni || merfe&#039;i || American cent/penny&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko bangu || merbau || American English&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko kulnu || merklu || American culture&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko gugde || mergu&#039;e || territory of American people&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko jecta || merjecta || territory ruled by the American government&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko natmi || mernai || American ethnos/ nation&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko turni || mertru || American government&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| merko ke ralju lidne || merli&#039;e American president&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These will typically used as lujvo by assigning merko as a gismu, and ensuring it has a rafsi, we make it easier to do so. Such words will be shorter, and hence will satisfy the need of speakers who want/need them. We have taken the cultures that are part of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s definition as being most populous for such gismu. This is NOT for the purpose of denigrating Bulgaria, Hungary, Persia/Iran, Sweden, nor Kurdistan or Moldavia. While none of these have gismu, and hence do not have rafsi, they can be made as le&#039;avla, and those le&#039;avla can be used in lujvo too, but they won&#039;t be as short.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typically, as a Type 3 le&#039;avla, these will incorporate the second term of the above tanru as a classifier. For example, in the case of Iran (we&#039;ll presume Farsi as the logical choice for borrowing):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rupnrfarsi fepnrfarsi banrfarsi gugrfarsi kulrfarsi turnrfarsi etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Things only get moderately &#039;inequitable&#039; when you have to make &#039;real&#039; lujvo out of these le&#039;avla. If a Persian rug is a &amp;quot;kulrfarsi lolgai&amp;quot; as a lujvo it becomes &amp;quot;kulrfarsi,iy,lolgai&amp;quot; where as an &amp;quot;American rug&amp;quot; (if it rated a lujvo) might be the shorter &amp;quot;merlolgai&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The set of gismu is certainly in one sense arbitrary - I can&#039;t state any external standard justifying the entire selection, and indeed we do not claim perfectly objective judgement. But I still claim that for all practical purposes the set is culturally neutral. Such a claim is always relative - there could me &#039;more perfect&#039; neutrality in theory; I think we did a good job, and I do not think the list is &#039;slanted towards a particular culture&#039;, unless that culture is the non-existent Lojban culture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The set of gismu were derived over 35 years. Jim Brown selected the first set based on 3 or 4 sources, including BASIC English, some studies of words that are &#039;biologically primitive&#039; in that they appear to be primitive in most every language, etc. He then used the Helen Eaton study of the most frequently used concepts in 4 languages (English/German/French/Spanish). This list is of course European biased, but it is the only such comparative study across several languages for word/concept frequencies, and Helen Eaton was doing so for AL research and was presumably aware of the neutrality issue. In any case, there is reason to believe that the list is more biased in its obsolescence (being 60 years old) than it is toward a specific culture - key concepts in science and medicine are unknown in the list, while certain concepts no longer important rate highly. It is still a standard, and the only one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown assumes that Zipf&#039;s law holds. Zipf noted that word length was inversely proportionate to word frequency. Since gismu were the shortest content words they should be used for the most frequent concepts. He made gismu for most of the first 1000 concepts, unless there was an obvious 2-term lujvo based on higher frequency words. He then continued to the 2000 and 3000 concept levels, and ended up with about 750 gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From 1962-82 this list grew to about 950. Because there were no le&#039;avla in the language design at that point, all of the elements were added as gismu, and many other rather idiosyncratic words like &#039;billiards&#039;; if someone wrote something in Loglan and needed a word, a gismu was often the result. After the 1982 revision of the language, there was the capability for le&#039;avla, and some of these gismu were removed, but JCB&#039;s Loglan still has a lot of historically idiosyncratic gismu which are gismu only because they had no obvious 2-4 term tanru/lujvo 20 years ago.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the list we inherited when we remade the list for Lojban. Among the words were culture words for the 8 source languages for Institute Loglan, (as well as separate gismu for the people and the culture) plus some idiosyncratic cultures that had been added haphazardly, including Italian, Scottish, Roman, and Amerind. We decided to regularize the set based on some external standard - the culture words we used were those for JCB&#039;s 8 languages, and the other 4 we considered for Lojban (we once planned to use 12 languages instead of 6, then cut back to 6 for several reasons). We added the religions that were primary in the source cultures, and separate words for the several countries that used the source languages. Because we had le&#039;avla, if we could not assign a good rafsi to any recognizable form of a country&#039;s culture word, we left it out - the assignment of a short rafsi was the main justification for these words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of all this is that the culture words were added according to a standard that is inherent in the history of the language and its design - thus no one really had to be an &#039;objective judge&#039;. If it is accepted that our &amp;quot;Chicken MacNuggets&amp;quot; word formation algorithm is culturally neutral, being based on 6 languages, then the culture words meet the same criteria of neutrality. In addition, the words are not slanted towards one culture - if so, we would have not used the Egyptian word for Egypt, the German word for Germany, etc. Yes, we had to leave some cultures out, and some countries that have speakers of the languages we do have. But the decision was not wholly arbitrary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rest of the gismu were selected to complete various incomplete sets recognized by a Roget-like study of the gismu by Paul Doudna. Later, when Athelstan joined the project, we conducted two further reviews against Roget&#039;s Thesaurus looking to achieve &#039;completeness&#039; in that the gismu could be used to form lujvo covering every concept in Roget. Roget is of course English-biased, but it also purports to be a comprehensive survey of the semantic word space and it is in that mode that we used the list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the course of doing so we recognized that the rationale for gismu has changed since JCB first started Loglan (and in his versions this is also true, though he has never so-stated). At one point Brown thought his words were in some absolute sense &#039;primitive&#039;, partly based on his biological primitive research. This is not the current practice in assigning gismu. gismu are in no way assumed to be the &#039;most basic&#039;, &#039;most important&#039;, or &#039;most&#039; anything for one or several cultures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We now claim ONLY that the gismu we have are sufficient, using the lujvo-making rules to make reasonable length lujvo to cover any concept that is important across cultures (reasonable I set at about 4 terms, the longest lujvo ever made and used as a &#039;real word&#039; for Loglan). Words that are specific to one culture, or are part of the international vocabulary of science are relegated to le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
BUT, in going to this definition of our gismu coverage, we did not claim the need to eliminate every gismu that had no obvious intercultural use. Indeed, if it was already made as a gismu, we kept it unless someone explicitly proposed its deletion accompanied by (usually) a 2-term lujvo for the concept. About 20 odd words were so deleted before the baseline. There is no intent to delete any gismu prior to the 5-year usage baseline, because the only meaningful criteria now are that would justify a deletion in the baseline period would be something like the word being impossibly vague (not likely since we have place structures for each). Arguments of usage - either potential or actual are irrelevant; that is the point of a usage baseline, to see whether they are used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of this long evolutionary process, it is clear that the list is not an arbitrary representation of one or two persons&#039; biases. Being based on the concept of &#039;semantic space&#039;, with some verification of usefulness in a few cultures, the list is close to comprehensive (occasional new words will be proposed when we find a gap). The list is not angled towards a specific one or even identifiable set of cultures, except that if some culture has a truly important concept that is not shared by any of the Eaton languages, it may currently be omitted. In which case, it will likely become a gismu later when recognized. Beyond this, I do not see the claims that the Lojban list is biased in some recognizable way towards any language. It can only be claimed that it is possibly biased away from some less common languages/cultures in the most trivial sense, since we are talking about exactly one word per such culture. No doubt if any of these less common cultures develops a significant Lojban speaker base during the formative years of the language, the culture will be assigned a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The remaining element words may plausibly be biased towards English or at least toward European cultures. These were justified by their use in metaphors before we had the now clear policy against heavily figurative metaphors. Even so, there are ways to define these words based on the properties adjectivally attributed to the substance in non-technical compounds, leaving the &#039;chemical word&#039; either for a lujvo (using &amp;quot;curve&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;xukmi&amp;quot;) or a le&#039;avla. Thus &amp;quot;nikle&amp;quot; is fine as is, &amp;quot;romge&amp;quot; is any highly reflective non-tarnishing metal, &amp;quot;navni&amp;quot; is an inert gas (this one change was adopted officially at LogFest), &amp;quot;kliru&amp;quot; can be used for all the halogens, (people put kliru tergu&#039;i on their cars), etc. This eliminates the most obvious part of the bias, but more importantly allowing the words to be useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arthur Hyun comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point is that if anyone wishes to maintain the pretense of Lojban being &amp;quot;culturally neutral&amp;quot;, then every culture is going to have to be considered the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob Chassell responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The consequence does not follow from the `if&#039; clause. The predicate &amp;quot;culturally neutral&amp;quot; has several places so far unexpressed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* by standards: in this case, standards of mostly middle-class, American developers, sufficient to meet what they think are the needs of enough Lojban speakers and experimenters for Lojban to meet the purposes of the language;&lt;br /&gt;
* to extent: as best the developers can, particularly with reference to Zipfian and other practical concerns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arthur:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoever has to judge what is &amp;quot;important&amp;quot; or less so will have a bias.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob Chassell:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, indeed. So therefore, whoever judges what to include is obligated to do the best she can. Since there is little desire to give everyone his own gismu, the question is &amp;quot;to whom to give gismu?&amp;quot; If the selected gismu turn out to be sufficient for enough of those who are experimenting with and speaking Lojban, then the selection will have been OK.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, the decision is not easy; to me, the best beginning is to use three criteria: population, wealth/power, frequency of occurrence in the kinds of speech the language developers anticipate for Lojban. These criteria are obviously unfair, and they have a bias; but enough Lojban speakers may be sufficiently satisfied by them for Lojban to succeed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arthur Hyun:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, either give up trying to claim &amp;quot;neutrality&amp;quot; or treat them all the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob Chassell:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This statement is a misunderstanding of what neutrality is about. Neutrality is not and cannot be absolute. Consider as an analogy, Swedish neutrality during WWII. At the beginning of the war, when it appeared that Germany would become the hegemonic power in Europe, Sweden cooperated more with Germany than with the Allies. (Remember: the invasion of Norway was designed to protect shipments of Swedish iron ore in coastal freighters; very likely, the Swedish mining regions would have been occupied by the Germans if the Swedes had not cooperated.) When the Allied coalition was seen to be winning, Sweden cooperated more with it, permitting, for example, people such as Niels Bohr to be flown out of Sweden by the British.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, Lojban cannot be absolutely neutral, neither as a practical matter nor as a matter of being able to define what `absolute neutrality&#039; means. (Obviously, to me at least, `treating them all the same&#039; is NOT neutral, but is very biased; is that not apparent to you?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has several goals relating to cultural neutrality:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* to serve as a vehicle for intercultural experiments;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Lojban to be useful, this means that the undesired influences of Lojban should both be small enough for the experiments and be less than the undesired influences of alternative vehicles, such as Urdu or Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are testing some group whose culture lacks a gismu, perhaps you would invent a nonce gismu; not all five-letter forms are currently used, just as not all shorter forms are assigned cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* to serve as an international language;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Lojban to be useful, this means that enough people must not be overly offended by Lojban&#039;s biases.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* to serve as a test for `logical language&#039;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that Lojban must be biased towards logic in some way, which biases it against languages such as English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another way to tackle the issue is to turn my questions around:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Is the current design of Lojban too culture bound for experiments relating to tense in grammar to succeed?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Is the current design of Lojban too culture bound for speakers in Asia, Africa, and Europe to accept? (One possibility is that Lojban&#039;s logical bias may be more significant than its other biases.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska (continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And now, how about some poetry?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael Helsem sent me a translation of the first stanza of the Esperanto Hymn into Lojban. The original (1), and Michael&#039;s English translation (2) are given first. Then comes his Lojban translation into a limerick! He made only minor errors, none of them grammatical (e.g. the place structure of fasnu has changed, making it non-useful for his purposes. So my correction of his translation (3) is immediately after with Michael&#039;s intended English translation (4) along with what he actually said. Finally, I have a pronunciation guide for those who want to read it aloud.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
La Espero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
En la mondon venis nova sento, &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Tra la mondo iras forta voko &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;per flugiloj de facila vento &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;nun de loko flugu gxi al loko &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(2)&lt;br /&gt;
Into the world came (a) new feeling,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;through the world goes (a) strong call;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;by (the) wings of (a) gentle wind,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;now fly it from place to place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(3)&lt;br /&gt;
le cnino menjvinu goi ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pu selfri le terdi ku .o&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ta&#039;i lo brife&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ku leko nunjimpe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ca selbei fi role selvo&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(4) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Intended) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A new mind-view &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;happened on the Earth (pride!) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Like a breeze &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;let your understanding &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;thing_understood be transferred to all the voiced-ones. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Actual) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A (specific) new mind-view (ko&#039;a) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;is-experienced-by the Earth (Pride!) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Having-form a breeze &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Your (imperative! - Make it true!) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;now is-sent to all-the-voiced_ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(5)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 le  cnino       menjvinu         goi ko&#039;a              &lt;br /&gt;
/leh,SHNEE,noh   mehn,ZHVEE,noo   goi,KOH,hah/          &lt;br /&gt;
                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
 pu  selfri      le  terdi        ku .o&#039;a               &lt;br /&gt;
/poo,SEHL,free   leh,TEHR,dee     ku. OH,hah/           &lt;br /&gt;
                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ta&#039;i       lo brife                                &lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,TAH,hee    loh,BREE,feh/                           &lt;br /&gt;
                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
 ku  le  ko     nunjimpe                                &lt;br /&gt;
/koo,LEH,koh    noon,ZHEEM,peh/                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
 ca   selbei     fi  ro  le       selvo&#039;a               &lt;br /&gt;
/shah,SEHL,bei   fee,ROH,leh      sehl,VOH,hah/         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But I wasn&#039;t happy with this. Not only might some Esperantists take offense at having their song of great traditional importance turned into a limerick (which in English culture is almost universally used for non-serious verse), it was not a very exact translation of the Esperanto. At Nick Nicholas&#039;s instigation, I&#039;ve lately been translating a bit of poetry, so it was only natural that I tried to do this one. I was surprised to find that my result was rhythmic (though not the exact same rhythm as the original), and it was fairly easy to make it rhyme a little bit too. My new translation is given as (6), and I&#039;ve added pronunciation and translation (7).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(6) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;e cu se pacna .i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le cnino selcinmo cu se lifri loi terdi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.isemu&#039;ibo fe&#039;eroroi vliki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko sepi&#039;o le mlibrife voknalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fairbevri ru rode da&#039;ada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(7)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The following is-hoped-for&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The new thing-emotionally-felt is-experienced-by of-the-mass-of- the-Earth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Therefore motivationally, everywhere powerful-cry_out&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) (imperative!) You, usingly, mild-breeze voice-wings&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;distribute-carry (the earlier) it from every-something to all- other-somethings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 le  cnino        selcinmo           cu   se  lifri       loi terdi &lt;br /&gt;
/leh,SHNEE,noh    sehl,SHEEN,moh     shoo-seh,LEE,free              &lt;br /&gt;
loi,TER,dee/                                                        &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
 .i  se  mu&#039;i    bo      fe&#039;e    ro  roi     vliki&#039;a                &lt;br /&gt;
/.ee-seh,MOO,hee-boh     feh-heh,ROH,roi     vlee,KEE,hah/          &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
 .i   .e&#039;o        ko  se  pi&#039;o       mlibrife             voknalci  &lt;br /&gt;
/.ee  .EH,hoh     koh-seh,PEE.hoh    mlee,BREE,feh                  &lt;br /&gt;
vohk,NAHL,shee/                                                     &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
 fairbevri               ru  ro  de          da&#039;a    da             &lt;br /&gt;
/fai-rr,BEHV,ree         roo,ROH,deh         dah,HAH,da/            &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But I didn&#039;t stop there. I&#039;d been carrying the seeds of an idea for an ode to Lojban, and this exercise got my writing urge going. Within an hour, I had written my first original Lojban poem, which can be seen to be both rhythmic and, with poetic license, rhyming. This is given as (8) with pronunciation and translation in (9).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the first &#039;original&#039; poem I&#039;ve written since 6th grade, some 25 years ago. I&#039;m actually quite pleased with it, and with the fact that it was so easy. Maybe I&#039;ll even write more (and inflict it on the world). But one thing is for sure: if &amp;gt;I&amp;lt; can write Lojban poetry, anyone can.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(8)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
doi bangu co satci joi ji&#039;a na&#039;e satci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;do&#039;u dunda le ko selkai co sidbo velcusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;loi terdi selvo&#039;a noi nitcu lo nintadji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;be lo nu menbenji fo loi prenu co simxu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i doi selmenli co cfipu be le so&#039;imei poi djica&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;leka jimpe do&#039;u bevri ko le cfari lei zgatirna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko cu klina selcusku gi&#039;e jicla&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le no&#039;e farvi pe ri&#039;a lenu seljimte loi malgerna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(9)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 doi bangu              co   satci         joi  ji&#039;a           na&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
satci                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
/doi,BAHN,goo           shoh,SAH,chee      zhoi,ZHEE,hah       nah-&lt;br /&gt;
heh,SAH,chee/                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 do&#039;u    dunda          le  ko  selkai     co   sidbo              &lt;br /&gt;
velcusku                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
/doh-hoo,DOON,dah       leh-koh,SEHL,kai   shoh,SEED,boh           &lt;br /&gt;
vehl,SHOO,skoo/                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 loi terdi              selvo&#039;a            noi nitcu           lo  &lt;br /&gt;
nintadji                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
/loi,TEHR,dee           sehl,VOH,hah       noi,NEE,choo        loh-&lt;br /&gt;
neen,TAH,jee/                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 be  lo  nu             menbenji           fo  loi prenu       co  &lt;br /&gt;
simxu                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
/beh,LOH,noo            mehn,BEHN,zhee     foh-loi,PREH,noo        &lt;br /&gt;
shoh,SEEM,khoo/                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
O, language of-type exact mixed-with-in-addition non-exact&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(something) gives your (imperative - make it true!) characteristic&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;of-type idea expression-mode&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;to of-the-mass-of-the-Earthly voiced-ones, who incidentally need&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the new-method&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;of events-of mind-sending to of-the-mass-of-persons of-type mutual.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
O, language, both exact and non-exact,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Let your characteristic mode of idea-expression&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;be given to the voiced ones of the earth, who need this&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;new method of mutually communicating between minds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  doi selmenli       co   cfipu         be  le  so&#039;imei     poi &lt;br /&gt;
djica                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
/.ee-doi-sehl,MEHN,lee  shoh,SHFEE,poo     beh-leh,SOH-HI,mei      &lt;br /&gt;
poi,JEE,shah/                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 le  ka  jimpe          do&#039;u    bevri      ko  le  cfari       lei &lt;br /&gt;
zgatirna                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
/leh-kah,ZHEEM,peh      doh-hoo,BEH,vree   koh-leh,SHFAH,ree   lei-&lt;br /&gt;
zgah,TEER,nah/                                                     &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 .i   .e&#039;o              ko  cu   klina     selcusku            gi&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
jicla                                                              &lt;br /&gt;
/.ee  .EH,hoh           koh-shoo,KLEE,nah  sehl,SHOO,skoo      gee-&lt;br /&gt;
heh,ZHEESH,lah/                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
 le  no&#039;e    farvi      pe  ri&#039;a    le     nu  seljimte        loi &lt;br /&gt;
malgerna                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
/leh-noh-heh,FAHR,vee   peh,REE,hah-leh    noo-sehl,ZHEEM,teh  loi-&lt;br /&gt;
mahl,GEHR,nah/                                                     &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
O thought-about-things of-type confusing to-the-many-some who desire&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;understanding-ness, (something) carries you (imperative! - make it true!)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;from-the initiators to-the observing-hearers (listeners)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) You (imperative!) be clearly-expressed-things, and stir the neutral-non-developing (stagnant) which-are-caused-by the-event-of being&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;limited-by Derogative-Grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
O ideas which confuse the many who desire understanding,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Let yourself be carried from those who initiate you to those who listen.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Please be clearly expressed, stirring the stagnation caused by the limits of (Ugh!) Grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another poem. Well, actually part of a song. The following is Mark Shoulson&#039;s first Lojban translation attempt: the beginning of the Doors&#039; song People Are Strange.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi prenu cu cizra .inaja do ca fange&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i loi flira cu simlu to&#039;e melbi .inaja do ca na se kansa&lt;br /&gt;
 .i loi ninmu cu mabla simlu      .inaja do ca na se djica&lt;br /&gt;
 .i loi klaji cu to&#039;e xutla       .inaja do ca badri fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 People are strange       / When you&#039;re a stranger;&lt;br /&gt;
 Faces look ugly          / When you&#039;re alone.&lt;br /&gt;
 Women seem wicked        / When you&#039;re unwanted;&lt;br /&gt;
 Streets are uneven       / When you&#039;re down.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s comments (mostly answers to questions from Mark):&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A most excellent first effort! Bravo! I find little to complain about. I might have used the less literal &amp;quot;pluta&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;klaji&amp;quot;, or even &amp;quot;tadji&amp;quot;, thus conveying what I think the intent is better, but this is &#039;stylistics&#039;, which Lojban has none of yet. Of course, Nora found one big mistake I missed (see below).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: I use &#039;loi&#039; all the time. Should it be &amp;quot;lo&#039;i&amp;quot;? Or something else?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: You done good! This is about as good an English text for &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot; as there is. &amp;quot;lo&#039;i&amp;quot; would give you a set. Sets generally are not ugly or wicked, and seldom are described as strange or uneven - but you don&#039;t want the set anyway, but the members.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: I don&#039;t much care for &amp;quot;.inaja&amp;quot;. I want a way to say &amp;quot;if but not necessarily only if&amp;quot;. I assume there&#039;s a better way. I copied this usage from lojbab&#039;s translation of Language. [by Suzanne Vega - see JL14].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora: With &amp;quot;.inaja&amp;quot;, what you have is &amp;quot;IF people are strange, THEN you are a stranger&amp;quot;. I think you wanted &amp;quot;.ijanai&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;People are strange, IF you are a stranger.&amp;quot; This seems a virtually exact translation. The Lojban statement is false only when people aren&#039;t strange but you ARE a stranger. It makes no claims about what happens if you are not a stranger. (Bob: I completely missed this - which may be why I did so poorly in logic when I was in school.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: Does the use of &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; make sense? I mean to get across the sense that faces look ugly if you&#039;re down at the time (hence the English &amp;quot;when&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Seems fine to me. You could also do something with one of the &amp;quot;under conditions&amp;quot; modals (selma&#039;o BAI), used exactly in the same place you used &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: Should &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot; in line 5 be &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot;? Am I using &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; right? Is there a better way to express these things?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Yes, &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot; is the right word, given the English semantics. You certainly are not judging women as morally evil (&amp;quot;palci&amp;quot;). You might use &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot;, but the English use of &amp;quot;bitch&amp;quot; in such situations is most certainly &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot;, and I suspect that the usage here is more suggestive of such cursing. &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; is fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: Should I be using the tanru I use? What would be better?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I would have omitted &amp;quot;simlu&amp;quot; in both the second and third lines, or I would have included them in all four; they are implicitly there. You could have done a couple of things to fiddle around. For example, the 2nd half of each line, rather than being &amp;quot;.inaja ... ca ...&amp;quot;, could have been a subordinate clause attached to the selma&#039;o BAI word for &amp;quot;under conditions&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi prenu cu cizra va&#039;o le nu do fange&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or you can even take out the &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; - the English really just means &amp;quot;someone&amp;quot;, and use the &amp;quot;observer&amp;quot; modal of BAI:&lt;br /&gt;
loi prenu cu cizra ga&#039;a lo fange&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or you can make all four based on &amp;quot;simlu&amp;quot;, which has an under conditions place and an observer. Note that &amp;quot;simlu&amp;quot; has a cleft place structure and may need changing. x1 and x2 are redundant, and a revision would be &amp;quot;x1 seems to be so to x2 under conditions x3&amp;quot;. The first version following uses the current cleft structure; the second version uses the possible revised structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 loi prenu cu simlu le ka ri cizra ku roda le nu da fange&lt;br /&gt;
 x1      }    simlu {x2             } x3   {x4          }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 le nu loi prenu cu cizra cu simlu roda le nu da fange&lt;br /&gt;
 {x1                    }    simlu x2   {x3          }&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To me these last seem very analytical, not poetic, and I prefer the &amp;quot;ga&#039;a&amp;quot; version.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark: I realize that some selma&#039;o UI words would probably belong here, but I&#039;m not positive which to use or even if I&#039;d want them there. There&#039;s something unsettling about the unemotionality you get without them which fits the mood of the song. Or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I personally think they don&#039;t belong, because the author has used the impersonal &amp;quot;you&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;someone&amp;quot;. If the pronoun had been &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;, the attitudinals are vital. There are SOME attitudinals that might apply anyway, and perhaps some discursives, but there is no vital need for any.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One last poem:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas&#039;s translation of a Greek poem&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko doi loi tarci na fegycrugunta mi mu&#039;i lenu mi ru&#039;inai sanga ca le nicte .imu&#039;ibo le nu mi cordri kei cei broda (to .u&#039;anairo&#039;i doi lemi se xe&#039;ikre toi) gi&#039;e klama fi le zdani gi&#039;e bacru lu&#039;e broda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation: literal Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Imperative you, O Stars [make-it] not that [you] angry-utter-attack [=scold] me motivated-by the-event I occasionally sing during the night. Because the-event I am pain-sad in-the heart ((Emotional loss!) O my black-haired one) and [I] come from the nest [=house] and uttered the symbol for it (the event of me being pain-sad).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .ai mi bacru lu&#039;e broda ga&#039;a loi tarci noi mipri gi&#039;eji&#039;a na pante (to .uinairo&#039;i do mo&#039;u bapli mi ti toi) ca so&#039;ilo cacra fi le nuntirna fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Intent!) I utter the symbol for it (the event of me being pain-sad) observed by Stars who keep-secret and-additionally not protest ((Emotional unhappiness!) you are-at-the-completion-of forcing me to do this-here [presumably this poem]), during many hours, about this event-of-hearing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Literal English from the Greek&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stars, not-imperative me you-scold that I-sing the night because I- had pain in-the heart (ach dark-diminutive-neuter my) and I-came-out and it I-said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To-the stars future-tense I-say the pain my that not it they-witness [metaphorically, bear witness] that they-have and [also] patience (ach how me you-rendered) with the hours and they-listen.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colloquial English from the Greek, with notes&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stars, do not scold me, that I sing in the night. (clearly an imperative. The &amp;quot;pou&amp;quot; in the original is no clearer that &amp;quot;that&amp;quot;, and sorta corresponds to &amp;quot;va&#039;o&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;tesau&amp;quot;, but of course means &amp;quot;for singing&amp;quot;) Because I had a pain in my heart (apostrophe: Oh, my dark-haired little one), and I came out and uttered it (the pain).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will utter my pain to the stars, who don&#039;t betray it (present tense; the verb literally means &amp;quot;witness&amp;quot;, and implies that the stars keep one&#039;s confidence) and which also have the patience (apostrophe: Oh how you&#039;ve rendered me/ Oh whata bad state I am in because of you!) to listen for hours.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== On Observatives ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Bob LeChevalier in response to Jim Carter&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Carter writes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the L.A. group meeting we discussed &amp;quot;observatives&amp;quot;, Initially we had trouble analyzing the meaning of the bare selbri &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot;; we concluded that it meant &amp;quot;manliness is happening here&amp;quot;, but the distinction between that and &amp;quot;a man&amp;quot;, while obviously real, is hard to explain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are correct that this is an &#039;observative&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the benefit of those who may have old copies of The Loglanist: in TL3, Scott Layson (supported by Chuck Barton) proposed that the bare selbri be interpreted as an observative, after the natural language usage reflected in shouting &amp;quot;Fire&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;fagri&amp;quot;) upon sight of smoke (as compared to the then current bare selbri as an imperative, a command). (At that time there was no clear way to declare an observative, though &amp;quot;le nanmu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;da nanmu&amp;quot; (using current Lojban words) were considered. (For newer Lojbanists, please forgive my extensive references to old Institute Loglan in this response.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Scott and Chuck argued that in most languages, an imperative is in some way inflected, whereas observatives are not. We researched further in designing the Lojban version and found that children first learn to speak essentially in observatives: &amp;quot;Mama!&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Doggy!&amp;quot;, and occasionally in attitudinally inflected observatives: &amp;quot;Milk?&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;.au ladru&amp;quot;). My invention of the imperative pro-sumti &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; solidified the change, and this is now one of the two major identifiable differences between Institute Loglan and Lojban, that is not simply an expansion of the language or a correction of hidden syntactic ambiguity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot; is an observative because the selbri has been atypically brought to the front of the sentence. (Indeed in this case it is the only thing in the sentence, but this is beside the point. &amp;quot;klama le zarci&amp;quot; is also an observative.) This movement, and the explicit elliptical omission of the x1 sumti (the &#039;subject&#039;) adds strong emphasis to the selbri as the critical new information being pointed out in expressing the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other than this strong emphasis, &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot; is treated as any ellipsized sentence is, all unspecified sumti are still actually there, but are unexpressed. They thus have the implicit value of &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot; (something I&#039;m not bothering to specify because it isn&#039;t important in this pragmatic context.) In the normal observative case, with a physical &amp;quot;subject&amp;quot; ellipsized as for &amp;quot;fagri&amp;quot;, a more accurate specification of the sumti would be &amp;quot;(pointing) ta fagri&amp;quot;). But &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; would cause the speaker to look at the pointer (to see what is pointing where, not look for the fire and run - in hearing the observative &amp;quot;karce&amp;quot; while standing in the street, the distraction of having to look at the pointer could be fatal.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There thus is nothing about looking at some &amp;quot;manliness is happening here&amp;quot;. That would either be the observative &amp;quot;nu nanmu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ka nanmu&amp;quot;, which are in turn equivalent to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 zo&#039;e      [cu] {nu       &amp;lt;zo&#039;e [cu]         nanmu [vau]&amp;gt; [kei]}&lt;br /&gt;
 Something is-an-event-of something (else)&#039;s being-a-man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 zo&#039;e      [cu] {ka         &amp;lt;zo&#039;e [cu]         nanmu [vau]&amp;gt; [kei]}&lt;br /&gt;
 Something is-a-property-of something (else)&#039;s being-a-man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where different &amp;quot;zo&#039;e&amp;quot;s can have different values. (I use &amp;quot;manhood&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;nu nanmu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;manliness&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;ka nanmu&amp;quot;; it is not clear from Jim Carter&#039;s example which he intends.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;A man&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;pa nanmu&amp;quot;, which is a shortened form of &amp;quot;pa lo nanmu&amp;quot; &amp;quot;One something that really is a man&amp;quot;. This is a sumti, not a complete sentence. We rejected such a bare sumti as a version of observative, as well as &amp;quot;lo nanmu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;le nanmu&amp;quot; for three reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, as incomplete sentences, the listener has to wait to be sure that the speaker isn&#039;t just hesitating before continuing with a selbri: &amp;quot;pa nanmu ...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lo nanmu ...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;le nanmu ...&amp;quot;. These are equivalent to the trailing-off incomplete English sentences &amp;quot;One man ...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;A man ...&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;Some men ...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;The man/men ...&amp;quot;. In Lojban such incomplete sentences are defined to be grammatical, and are typically used to answer &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; questions. The latter two English translations point out that Lojban descriptors make no singular/plural distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second reason is that the descriptors end up being the first word heard, not the selbri. Shouting &amp;quot;A fire!&amp;quot; has less impact than shouting &amp;quot;Fire!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, the versions with the extra cmavo have just that little bit extra grammar and semantic interpretation implicit in the extra word. Observatives are generally used in situations where people don&#039;t want to take the trouble (or in the case of children, don&#039;t know how) to construct a sentence with more elaborate grammar, and/or don&#039;t want the listener to take the time to interpret the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Carter:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But we came up with a better example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 carvi         It&#039;s raining&lt;br /&gt;
 lo carvi      Look, raindrops&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first English is a reasonable colloquial translation of its Lojban. More exact is &amp;quot;[Something] rains&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;Rain!&amp;quot; The second Lojban, a sumti, is the incomplete sentence &amp;quot;A raining thing/Some rain ... [is doing something]&amp;quot;, whereas Jim&#039;s English would be expressed in Lojban as &amp;quot;ko catlu .i carvi [dirgo]&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ko catlu lenu carvi [dirgo]. (The thing(s) raining need not be &#039;drops&#039;. We say &amp;quot;lo snime cu carvi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;The snow rains&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;loi mlatu je gerku cu carvi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;Cats and dogs rain.&amp;quot; - the literal statement - NOT a figure of speech.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Predications and Identities ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Bob LeChevalier&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A discussion on Lojban List eventually hinged on clarifying the differences between &#039;predications&#039; and &#039;identities&#039;. In his writings on Loglan, Jim Brown has long stressed this distinction, which is basic to predicate logic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has turned out, however, that in both the Institute&#039;s and our versions of Loglan, there is no grammatical difference between predications and identities. In Lojban, we kept the two grammatically distinct until this last spring, when John Cowan showed using his E-BNF that the distinction was illusory. Now, identity sentences look like predications and can be understood like them, and one must recognize them by the use of specific cmavo that indicate the difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Carter observed that Lojban &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; (keyword &amp;quot;become&amp;quot;) could be seen as a kind of identity claim, since in English, &amp;quot;become&amp;quot; is a future tense of &amp;quot;to be&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We must clarify that &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; is rather to be contrasted with &amp;quot;cenba&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;vary&amp;quot;) and &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;modify&amp;quot;). This trio of gismu were assigned because old Loglan &amp;quot;cenja&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;change&amp;quot;) which means what &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; does, was often used in tanru and lujvo as if it meant one of the other two words. Institute Loglan solved the problem by misusing its &amp;quot;madzo&amp;quot; for the &#039;transitive&#039; &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;galfi&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;madzo&amp;quot; has the same meaning as Lojban&#039;s &amp;quot;zbasu&amp;quot; (to make/construct ... out of ...). We separated the English word &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; into its three distinct meanings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 binxo    changes into/becomes ... &lt;br /&gt;
 cenba    changes/varies in property ...&lt;br /&gt;
 galfi    changes ... into ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The keywords were chosen to maximize the distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A similar problem was recognized with &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot; &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; last year. As noted in the discussion of cleft structures and sumti-raising above, &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot; is clarified to mean that x1 is the actor/agent in an event or action x2. We kept the keyword as &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; because &amp;quot;actor&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;agent&amp;quot; are much more familiar in English with meanings that have nothing to do with the Lojban &amp;quot;gasnu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;du&amp;quot; IS an identity &#039;predicate&#039;, and its morphology alone flags it as different from other predicate words. It claims that the two sumti on either side are alternate and equivalent designations for the same thing. Translate it best as the mathematical &amp;quot;=&amp;quot; sign.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;du&amp;quot;, other than in a mathematical context, has a somewhat metalinguistic effect. It equates two labels for the same thing. No other words in Lojban, other than the relativizers &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;, and the assigners &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cei&amp;quot;, have this metalinguistic effect.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Lojban has grown, the role of &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; in Lojban has shrunk. Most noteworthy, the practice of using &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; for self-identification as taught in draft textbook lesson 1, is now frowned on: use &amp;quot;mi&#039;e. .atlstan.&amp;quot;, or mi se cmene zo .atlstan. (if your name happens to Lojbanize as &amp;quot;.atlstan.&amp;quot;). It isn&#039;t wrong, but we do not want new Lojbanists concentrating on the use of &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; early in learning the language. Otherwise we get such unacceptable statements as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 la banthas. du lo     mlatu  (1)&lt;br /&gt;
 Bantha      =  a/some cat(s)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
intending, but not saying &amp;quot;Bantha is a cat&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here we have a legal/grammatical but probably false statement. &amp;quot;lo mlatu&amp;quot; is a description that can apply to a cat, or the members of any collection of cats, in the universe of discourse (possibly including the non-domesticated species). I doubt that there exists anyone that would apply the name &amp;quot;la banthas.&amp;quot; to all of these cats. If we were expressing the Linnean (Latin/Greek) name for the cat family, well, maybe ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a &#039;predication&#039; (as opposed to &#039;identity&#039;) &amp;quot;predicate word&amp;quot; that is near-equivalent to &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;, and that is &amp;quot;mintu&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;x1 is identical to x2&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;du&amp;quot; while etymologically tied to &amp;quot;dunli&amp;quot; is not really related due to place structure differences). There have been some probably legitimate but inconclusive debates about whether &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mintu&amp;quot; are the same predicate. Nora and I currently feel that &amp;quot;mintu&amp;quot; can be used more broadly, as in &amp;quot;this plate is the same as that one&amp;quot;, when the two are interchangeable for the intended function. &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; would not be correct in translating such a statement, since presumably &amp;quot;this plate&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;that one&amp;quot; refer to different objects.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Predicate logic does not write identity sentences as predicates. Lojban&#039;s predicate grammar requires even an identity sentence to be phrased as a predication. As such, Lojban is a mirror image of natural languages. But the use of a cmavo in an identity sentence should alert you to the very real difference between them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How to say it ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A New Regular? Feature&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are happy to take good ideas from the Loglan Institute, and are thus instituting (!?) a new feature, where you ask how do say something which is not obvious, and more experienced Lojbanists try to answer. We prefer to see your attempts at expressing it, because 1) it means you tried and this isn&#039;t a trivial question; and 2) it helps us slant our explanation to fit your needs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Word translations need some kind of context for them to be included in this feature. Thus, some questions from Ivan Derzhanski in his Lojban letter are not answered here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Coranth D&#039;Gryphon:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have a few English statements that I&#039;d like the appropriate meanings for:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# some people (plural of person, referring to existing individuals);&lt;br /&gt;
# some people (plural of person, referring to hypothetical individuals);&lt;br /&gt;
# people (the set of all persons, treated as a lump unit);&lt;br /&gt;
# people (the set of all persons, treated as individuals);&lt;br /&gt;
# person (the set of all the things that make up a person, considered a unit).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These 5 mass statements are simple, but look carefully at the quantifiers in my answer. I have put normally ellipsized quantifiers in brackets - they are needed to properly understand what is going on. Afterwards I summarize the default quantifiers for the 4 descriptors involved. Note that none of your examples involve &amp;quot;lo&#039;i&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le&#039;i&amp;quot; the set descriptors. &amp;quot;lo&#039;i vinji&amp;quot; is the set of all things that really are airplanes, and does not relate to their components.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# su&#039;ore lo [ro] prenu or su&#039;ore le [su&#039;ore] prenu &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;or&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;su&#039;ore da poi prenu&lt;br /&gt;
# Either of the first two above for 1; &amp;quot;da poi ...&amp;quot; claims actual existence of something that meets the restrictive bridi that appears after &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;. The distinction between &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is that &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; refers to things that have the relevant property, whereas &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; refers only to the speaker&#039;s intended referent which is presumed to be understood by the listener or the speaker would have given more information to restrict the referent. We have also given the two descriptors different default quantifiers, as shown in the bracketed values above.&lt;br /&gt;
# piro loi [ro] prenu&lt;br /&gt;
# ro lo [ro] prenu [ro] le ro prenu&lt;br /&gt;
# [piro] lei pa prenu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using &amp;quot;loi&#039; with &amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; after the descriptor like this would incidentally claim that there is only one person in the universe).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The big &#039;secret&#039; in all of this is the default quantifiers - the numbers inside and outside of the descriptor. The inside number enumerates the set meeting the description, while the outside quantifiers selects from that set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
su&#039;o lo ro prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o            lo              ro prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 at-least-one of the-set-of-all- who-are persons (which set has cardinality &#039;all&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compare this with:&lt;br /&gt;
su&#039;o lo ci mela studjez.&lt;br /&gt;
 su&#039;o            lo              ci mela studjez.&lt;br /&gt;
 at-least-one of the-set-of-all- Stooges (which set has cardinality 3)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro le su&#039;o prenu &lt;br /&gt;
 ro      le                                    su&#039;o prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 Each of the-set-of-things-that-I-describe-as  persons (which set-in-mind has cardinality at-least-1)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pisu&#039;o loi ro prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 pisu&#039;o           loi              ro prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 at-least-some of the-mass-of-all- who-are-persons (cardinality &#039;all&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
piro lei su&#039;o prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 piro   lei                                                su&#039;o prenu&lt;br /&gt;
 all of the-massified-set-of-the-things-that-I-describe-as persons (cardinality &#039;at least 1&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le/lei/le&#039;i must have at least one in the set.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lo/loi/lo&#039;i need not have any in the set (in which case the &amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at least 0&amp;quot; since &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; is also = &amp;quot;0&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In normal usage, all of the above implicit quantifiers are left unstated. You only put in a quantifier if it differs from the default value. The resemblance of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; to English indefinites is purely a result of our choice for the implicit quantifier. In JCB&#039;s Loglan the equivalent word was &amp;quot;lea&amp;quot; which had the default quantifier &amp;quot;ro *lea ro prenu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;all of the set of all who really are persons&amp;quot;) which is only useful for logically risky universal claims, whereas &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; is useful for indefinites, where the speaker has no particular referents in mind. But &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; is still not quite the same as English indefinites (&amp;quot;a&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;some&amp;quot; as articles). If you have even the slightest restriction on the set of persons being described and do not make the restriction explicit with poi/pe/po&#039;u etc., the you should use &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;, and use explicit &amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; to replace the implicit outside quantifier &amp;quot;ro&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;su&#039;o le ro prenu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;some of all persons that I have in mind&amp;quot;) - usually shortened to &amp;quot;su&#039;o le prenu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I ran off down the following dead-end alleys and would appreciate anybody&#039;s comments on how to escape them...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* How to say: &amp;quot;habit&amp;quot; and/or &amp;quot;habitual&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
* How to say: &amp;quot;customary&amp;quot;. tcaci = &amp;quot;custom&amp;quot;; is it enough to use the quality abstractor &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;? Is ka tcaci = &amp;quot;customary&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Habit&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;custom&amp;quot; are the same gismu: &amp;quot;tcaci&amp;quot;. You would say &amp;quot;customary&amp;quot; by using this gismu in a tanru: &amp;quot;a habitual walker&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;lo tcaci cadzu&amp;quot;. [Bob adds: You can also use &amp;quot;ta&#039;e&amp;quot; as a tense-like inflection for &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How to say: &amp;quot;cultural&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;x springs from culture y&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;ka kulnu&amp;quot; is clearly not adequate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lo se kulnu&amp;quot; are the people who exhibit a culture. [Bob adds: loi kulnu can be used for some portion or element of culture.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How to say: &amp;quot;tilt&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;x tilts/leans at angle y in frame z&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;salpo&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;x1 is sloped/inclined with angle x2 to horizon/frame x3&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How to say: &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;x is biased/directed/ influenced in direction y by applied force z&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I&#039;m not sure if the physical or the metaphorical sense of &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; is wanted here. For the latter, &amp;quot;se xlura&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;x1 is influenced by x2 to do or be x3 under conditions x4&amp;quot; seems to do the trick.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How to say: tend, as in x tends toward y (naturally, of itself)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;jinzi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;x1 is the innate property of x2&amp;quot; The other portion of the tanru could be either &amp;quot;lakne&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;x1 is likely under conditions x2&amp;quot; &amp;quot;tarti&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;x1 behaves as x2 under condition x3&amp;quot; depending on context, or possibly other choices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;How to say: &amp;quot;thoughtless&amp;quot;. Negation of &amp;quot;sanji&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;aware&amp;quot;? And then abstracted? How to say: &amp;quot;unwise&amp;quot;. Negation of &amp;quot;prije&amp;quot; and abstracted?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;No need to abstract here. Abstraction corresponds to things like &amp;quot;-ness&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-ity&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;lo na&#039;e prije&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;an unwise person&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;lo na&#039;e prije cusku&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;unwise statements&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Thoughtless&amp;quot; has several English meanings, I think.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob adds:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ka sanji&amp;quot; is thus &amp;quot;consciousness&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;awareness&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;nu prije&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ka prije&amp;quot; are different interpretations of &amp;quot;wisdom&amp;quot;. I would do most varieties of &amp;quot;thoughtless&amp;quot; as combinations of &amp;quot;claxu&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;lack&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;pensi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;kurji&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;taking care of&amp;quot;, or as &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; negations of the latter two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And here&#039;s a biggie: how do you say &amp;quot;idiom&amp;quot;? An idiom is not simply a metaphor, it&#039;s a metaphor that through constant usage has lost its metaphoric indirection and simply means what it originally suggested. (Like &amp;quot;red herring&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;We don&#039;t have those in Lojban. (zo&#039;o)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A lot of possible tanru here. How about: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se farvi smuni valsi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;evolved_into-meaning-words&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;kulnu smuni valsi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;cultural-meaning-words&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;tcaci smuni valsi&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;customary-meaning-words&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska - Your turn ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick Nicholas has translated the next paragraph of the ongoing Jim Carter science fiction story, but partly due to space, and partly because of the other large translation here from Nick, we are holding that for next issue. Instead, I&#039;m going to put some challenges to the readership (in case all this text, and Ivan&#039;s requests for tanru or lujvo, aren&#039;t enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I seriously want to see as many people as possible try one of the following two Lojbanic exercises. The first is merely an exercise in creative word manipulation, which any language lover can do. (You can complicate the exercise by using it as practice in lujvo-making, but this is not obligatory.) The second is a set of aphorism translation exercises that anyone can work on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We would like feedback on these exercises, whatever you choose to do with them. Are they interesting? Which did you try to do, how well did you do, and how do you feel about your level of success compared to your expectations? Do you want exercises like this to be a regular feature of ju&#039;i lobypli, and which exercises did you like best if space is too limited? There are a lot of aphorisms that can be translated, and a lot of concepts to explore Lojbanically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first exercise is a study in happiness. It all started with Nick Nicholas lecturing about &amp;quot;happiness&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, to bring in a parenthesis, there is a massive history to the verb to be used corresponding to Happy. It alludes, of course, to the Sermon On The Mount. Now here are some distinct types of happiness:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! English&lt;br /&gt;
! Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
! Greek (Modern)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Fortunate&lt;br /&gt;
| Felicxa&lt;br /&gt;
| Eutuxhs, Eutuxismenos&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Pleased&lt;br /&gt;
| (Kontenta)&lt;br /&gt;
| Euxaristhmenos&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Happy&lt;br /&gt;
| Gaja&lt;br /&gt;
| Xaroumenos&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Joyful&lt;br /&gt;
| Gxoja&lt;br /&gt;
| (can&#039;t think of one)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Blissful&lt;br /&gt;
| (Sengxena)&lt;br /&gt;
| Makarios (cf. Latin Beatus)&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Esperanto has &#039;Fortunate&#039; because this makes the link between cause of happiness and the happiness explicit: Gxojas tiuj, kiuj... would sound like their joy was incidental to their seeing God. It would be even worse with Gajas tiuj, kiuj... which reads somewhat like &amp;quot;Those who have seen God are running around smiling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the original Greek had Makarioi, and the Latin translation has Beati. Admittedly some semantics would have been influenced by the Church&#039;s use of the term; but Oi Makarioi Nhsoi, the Isles of Bliss, the late-pagan-Greek equivalent of heaven, predates Christian theology (I think). What this implies to me is that Christ meant something along the lines of &#039;They will have no worries, no disquiet&#039;, not &#039;they will run around smiling&#039; (Happy) or &#039;they will run around hurrahing&#039; (Joyful) or &#039;they will say &amp;quot;ain&#039;t we lucky&amp;quot;&#039; (Fortunate, Pleased).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does la Lojban distinguish between these happinesses (it doesn&#039;t have to, and I&#039;ve heard SapirWhorfish mumbles against such distinctions), and which would it have picked here? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Yes and no. We can distinguish between any concepts, but no one has done so yet. The &amp;quot;SapirWhorfish mumbles&amp;quot; you heard are wrong - one of the areas where Lojban may exhibit S-W effects is in the ability to make such distinctions, and the creativity that results from the free combination of ideas. In fact, I proposed a massive effort like the following way back in the first issue of JL, under the name &#039;complexing&#039;. In a sense, doing this is what made me interested in Loglan enough to tackle the dictionary project (which is how I got started). (I love playing with words and their corresponding ideas, to see how they interact.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let&#039;s do it. Let&#039;s see how many ways there are to be happy (do happy?). I&#039;ll give some hints and guidelines, and see what our readers can come up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First you wander through the gismu list pulling out words related to the concept. I didn&#039;t pull the following out in order, but about 15 minutes gave me all of them. You can probably find more using your own lists. As you will see, don&#039;t be picky - let your mind play word association games.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some key source words (I&#039;ll use the published gismu list; some places of some of these are probably going to change, but not to significantly affect this exercise - feel free to suggest changes, in fact):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
! Idea&lt;br /&gt;
! Place structure&lt;br /&gt;
! rafsi or lujvo&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| gle gei&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pluka&lt;br /&gt;
| x pleases y&lt;br /&gt;
| puk pu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se pluka&lt;br /&gt;
| x is pleased by y&lt;br /&gt;
| selpu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| salci&lt;br /&gt;
| x celebrates y&lt;br /&gt;
| sal&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xalbo&lt;br /&gt;
| x is levity/non-serious about y &lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zdile&lt;br /&gt;
| x is amusing to y&lt;br /&gt;
| zil zdi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se zdile&lt;br /&gt;
| x is amused by y&lt;br /&gt;
| selzdi&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are 5 different basic &#039;kinds&#039; of happiness. They can stand alone or modify each other:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| salci gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is celebratingly-happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| salgei&lt;br /&gt;
| gay/joyful&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se zdile gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is amusedly-happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| selzdigei&lt;br /&gt;
| one kind of enjoy, but see below.&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But we needn&#039;t stop here. There are related words that are useful for specific kinds of happiness:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bebna&lt;br /&gt;
| x is foolish in y&lt;br /&gt;
| beb&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cando&lt;br /&gt;
| x is idle/at rest/inactive&lt;br /&gt;
| cad&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cizra&lt;br /&gt;
| x is strange/bizarre to y in z&lt;br /&gt;
| ciz&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| cunso&lt;br /&gt;
| x is random/chance&lt;br /&gt;
| cun cu&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dimna&lt;br /&gt;
| x is the fate/destiny/doom of y&lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se dimna&lt;br /&gt;
| x is doomed to y&lt;br /&gt;
| seldimna&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fenki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is crazy/insane in doing/being y&lt;br /&gt;
| fek&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| jgira&lt;br /&gt;
| x has pride about y&lt;br /&gt;
| jgi&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kanro&lt;br /&gt;
| x is healthy&lt;br /&gt;
| ka&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| kufra&lt;br /&gt;
| x is comfortable in environment y&lt;br /&gt;
| kuf&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lifri&lt;br /&gt;
| x experiences y&lt;br /&gt;
| lif fri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| lijda&lt;br /&gt;
| x is the religion of people y with tenets z&lt;br /&gt;
| lij jda&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se lijda&lt;br /&gt;
| x follows religion y with tenets z&lt;br /&gt;
| seljda&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mansa&lt;br /&gt;
| x is satisfied with y&lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| panpi&lt;br /&gt;
| x is at peace&lt;br /&gt;
| pap&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pensi&lt;br /&gt;
| x thinks about y&lt;br /&gt;
| pen pei&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| prije&lt;br /&gt;
| x is wise/sage about y by standard/observer z&lt;br /&gt;
| pij&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| racli&lt;br /&gt;
| x is sane/rational&lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| ranxi&lt;br /&gt;
| x is ironic in that y&lt;br /&gt;
| rax&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| sanga&lt;br /&gt;
| x sings y to z&lt;br /&gt;
| sag&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| siclu&lt;br /&gt;
| x makes whistling sound y with z&lt;br /&gt;
| sil&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| stodi&lt;br /&gt;
| x is constant/invariant in y&lt;br /&gt;
| tod sto&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tarti&lt;br /&gt;
| x behaves/conducts self as y under conditions z&lt;br /&gt;
| tat tai&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tcaci&lt;br /&gt;
| x is the custom/habit of y under condition z&lt;br /&gt;
| cac tca&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| tinbe&lt;br /&gt;
| x obeys/follows command y by z&lt;br /&gt;
| tib&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
| x is good for y by standard z&lt;br /&gt;
| xag xau&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zabna&lt;br /&gt;
| x is the ameliorative of y&lt;br /&gt;
| zan za&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All 24 of these can be applied as modifiers to &amp;quot;gleki&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;selpu&#039;a&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;selzdi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;xalbo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;salci&amp;quot;, and in some cases each other. That gives over 120. Many will bring to mind a situation where they would be useful. Some, not all will suggest an English word equivalent (or possibly to Esperantists an Esperanto word, or to Nick, a Greek word.) All are valid tanru in Lojban. All more or less mean &amp;quot;happy&amp;quot;. All can be made into lujvo. Anyone want to tackle the complete set systematically, giving us hundreds of words for the dictionary in one fell swoop? If you aren&#039;t that ambitious, try a few dozen, put together as you see fit (which may take a while) or a systematic subset (after doing this for a few minutes, you&#039;ll find you can&#039;t write them as fast as you can analyze them and put them together).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll give several examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| bebna gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is foolishly-happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| bebgei&lt;br /&gt;
| one kind of giddy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fenki gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is crazily/insanely happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| fekygei&lt;br /&gt;
| another kind&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zabna lifri&lt;br /&gt;
| x Experiences! y&lt;br /&gt;
| zanfri&lt;br /&gt;
| enjoys (my preference for this English word in most contexts)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| siclu gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is whistlingly-happy about y (whistling z with w)&lt;br /&gt;
| silgei&lt;br /&gt;
| (think Snow White and the 7 Dwarves)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| panpi kufra&lt;br /&gt;
| x is peacefully-comfortable in environment y&lt;br /&gt;
| papkufra&lt;br /&gt;
| content&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| panpi gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is peacefully-happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| papygei&lt;br /&gt;
| serene&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se lijda gleki&lt;br /&gt;
| x is religiously-believing happy about y&lt;br /&gt;
| seljdagei&lt;br /&gt;
| beatific&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the &amp;quot;happy&amp;quot; word first:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gleki panpi&lt;br /&gt;
| x is happily-at peace (happy about y)&lt;br /&gt;
| glepanpi&lt;br /&gt;
| blissful geirpanpi&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not enough? We have intensities:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| carmi&lt;br /&gt;
| x is intense in y &lt;br /&gt;
| cam cai&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| milxe &lt;br /&gt;
| x is mild/gentle/unextreme in property y&lt;br /&gt;
| mli&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mleca &lt;br /&gt;
| x is less than y in property z by amount w &lt;br /&gt;
| mec me&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mutce &lt;br /&gt;
| x is toward the y extreme in property z &lt;br /&gt;
| mut mu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| traji &lt;br /&gt;
| x is superlative in property y &lt;br /&gt;
| taj rai&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zmadu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is more than y in property z by amount w &lt;br /&gt;
| zad zma mau&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| carmi gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is intensely-happy about y &lt;br /&gt;
| camgei &lt;br /&gt;
| implies a particularly emphatic happiness&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| mutce gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is very-happy about y &lt;br /&gt;
| mu&#039;egle &lt;br /&gt;
| a little broader happiness than camgei, but still extreme&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gleki zmadu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy-more than y is (about z by amount w) &lt;br /&gt;
| glemau or geizma&lt;br /&gt;
| happier&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| zmadu gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is more-happy about y (than z is by amount w) &lt;br /&gt;
| maugle or zmagei&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se gleki zmadu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy_making-more than y (than z is by amt w) &lt;br /&gt;
| selgeimau &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which can then be converted without lujvo making to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se selgeimau &lt;br /&gt;
| x is made-happy-more by y than by z by amt w &lt;br /&gt;
| a proper and fairly exact lujvo is selkemselgei mau but the following will probably be adopted selselgeimau because any other interpretation of &amp;quot;selsel-&amp;quot; is a nullity&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, we can also define happiness in terms of what it is not, or what it lacks:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
| polar opposite (c.f. Esperanto mal- ?) &lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| no&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
| neutral scalar negation &lt;br /&gt;
| no&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| badri &lt;br /&gt;
| x is sad/depressed about y &lt;br /&gt;
| dri&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| claxu &lt;br /&gt;
| x lacks/is without y &lt;br /&gt;
| cax cau&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| dunku &lt;br /&gt;
| x is anguished/distressed by y &lt;br /&gt;
| duk du&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fanza &lt;br /&gt;
| x annoys/irritates/bothers y by doing/being z &lt;br /&gt;
| faz&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se fanza &lt;br /&gt;
| x is annoyed by y doing/being z &lt;br /&gt;
| selfanza&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| fengu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is angry at y for z &lt;br /&gt;
| feg fe&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| junri &lt;br /&gt;
| x is serious about y &lt;br /&gt;
| jur&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| pante &lt;br /&gt;
| x protests/objects/complains to y about z by doing w &lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| raktu &lt;br /&gt;
| x troubles/disturbs y by z &lt;br /&gt;
| ra&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se raktu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is troubled by y doing z &lt;br /&gt;
| selra&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| steba &lt;br /&gt;
| x feels frustration about y under conditions z &lt;br /&gt;
| seb&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| xanka &lt;br /&gt;
| x is nervous/anxious about y &lt;br /&gt;
| -&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;e badri &lt;br /&gt;
| x is polar-opposite of sad/depressed about y &lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;erdri&lt;br /&gt;
| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;e pante &lt;br /&gt;
| x opposite-of-protests to y about z by doing w &lt;br /&gt;
| to&#039;erpante &lt;br /&gt;
| compliments y ...&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| no&#039;e pante &lt;br /&gt;
| x doesn&#039;t-protest to y about z by doing &lt;br /&gt;
| no&#039;erpante &lt;br /&gt;
| has nothing to complain about to y is a reasonable interpretation of this as a lujvo, but there may be others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se raktu claxu &lt;br /&gt;
| x is troubled-lacking of y doing z &lt;br /&gt;
| selra&#039;ucau &lt;br /&gt;
| a specific kind of bliss or serenity suggesting: x is blissfully unaware of y doing z&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll close by listing some others Jim Brown had in his old dictionary, (updated to Lojban standards). I don&#039;t always agree with Brown&#039;s tanru but they may give ideas (a version of his &#039;English equivalent&#039; is in parentheses):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| &lt;br /&gt;
| gleki culno &lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy-full of y (x is joyful about y) &lt;br /&gt;
| geiclu&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gleki xendo &lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy-kind towards y (x hearty/warm-hearted toward y) &lt;br /&gt;
| glexe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| gleki rinka &lt;br /&gt;
| x is happy-causer of y (x cheers y up giving) &lt;br /&gt;
| gleri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se rinka gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is causedly happy about y by cause z (x is cheered up/cheerful about y cheered by z)&lt;br /&gt;
| selgleri&#039;a &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(which we can use other causals in:)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se mukti gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is motivatedly-happy about y by motive z &lt;br /&gt;
| selglemu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| se krinu gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is justifiedly happy about y with reason z &lt;br /&gt;
| selgleki&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{|&lt;br /&gt;
| se nibli gleki &lt;br /&gt;
| x is logically-necessitated to be happy about y by logic z (?!) &lt;br /&gt;
| selgleni&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most English words will map to more than one Lojban word, because there are so many Lojban words. Thus we can make finer distinctions in our words than English can!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For those not familiar with lujvo-making rules, here&#039;s the easy version. Replace the final vowel of all but the last word with &#039;y&#039;, and write it as one word. Thus the &#039;easy&#039; form of&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;bebgei&#039; is &#039;bebnygleki&#039;, and the two word versions are absolutely the same in meaning, place structure, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you want to try to shorten them, the following is a short set of rules omitting a couple of special cases that you&#039;ll rarely run into. See the Synopsis for complete rules. (For those few people who have gotten the new issue of the rafsi list, these rules are included).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that the final rafsi must end in a vowel, incompatible consonant junctures between rafsi (voiced/unvoiced like &amp;quot;bp&amp;quot;, same consonant like &amp;quot;bb&amp;quot;, and both fricative &amp;quot;c, j, s, or z&amp;quot;, and a few others - see the Synopsis or the back page of the Lojban-order gismu list) require a &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; &#039;hyphen&#039; between the consonants. Also a CVV form requires &#039;r&#039; as a hyphen in the first rafsi, unless immediately followed by a CCV affix (this to form the mandatory consonant cluster - use an &#039;n&#039; if the following affix starts with &#039;r&#039;). There are a few other rules, but if you get this far your first try without making any mistakes, I&#039;ll be more than ******* (Well - you find the word I want!!!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our other exercise is in translation of aphorisms. This can be a game of almost any level of difficulty or skill required, so we will provide both Lojban and English data so that it can be maximally used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What follows are three sets of sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The first set of sentences consists of Lojban translations of some aphorisms and other &#039;pithy sayings&#039;, the product of various members of the Lojban conversation group that meets here in the Washington DC area.&lt;br /&gt;
* The second set of sentences are the original English versions of each of the Lojban translations, not in the same order as the Lojban sentences. This set of aphorisms is graded in difficulty from 1 (easiest) to 4 (hardest), in terms of amount of Lojban skill needed to translate them into Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
* The third set of sentences are also English aphorisms, but these have no translations. They are &#039;exercises&#039;. This set of aphorisms is graded in difficulty from 1 (easiest) to 4 (hardest) as is the second set. These are estimates, since the sentences haven&#039;t been translated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The translation section at the end of this issue has the complete set of matches between the first two sets of sentences, so that you can study them in comparison to each other. Feel free to comment on or criticize any of these translations, or try to do better yourself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s what you do with these sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The simplest exercise is to attempt to understand the first set of aphorisms, matching them up with their corresponding members of the second set.&lt;br /&gt;
* Slightly more difficult is to go the other way. Attempt to translate sentences in the second set into Lojban sufficiently that you can match them to the corresponding members of the first set. You can also mix the two directions, trying some in each direction, making sure you mark sentences off so that you don&#039;t repeat yourself. Note that the Set #1 translations may not be the best possible.&lt;br /&gt;
* You can attempt to fully translate the first set into English, seeing if you can figure out colloquial translations of the Lojban. You can compare your answer with the real quotation, which will help you judge your skill in reading Lojban, and our skill in communicating to you in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
* Still braver, you can attempt to completely translate the second set of sentences into Lojban, and then compare your answer with the one that our group came up with. If you don&#039;t agree, you may still be correct - there is certainly more than one way to translate these types of sentences. If you think your version is as good or better, send it to us, and we may use yours when these are used as exercises in the Lojban textbook or samples in the first Lojban reader.&lt;br /&gt;
* Finally, you can translate the third set of sentences into Lojban and send them to us. Include on a separate sheet the identifying number or complete English for each translation. The conversation group here will then attempt to back-translate your versions, which will help us learn the language. We will collectively respond to all submissions with comments and corrections of your attempts. The best translations will appear in future la lojbangirz. publications. We of course recommend working from easier aphorisms to harder ones, but work at whatever level you feel comfortable.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you are studying together with at least one other Lojbanist, you can also do exactly what our group did in developing the first set. Cut individual English aphorisms into strips and put them into a box. Each person takes a slip and translates their sentence into Lojban. When all are done, say or write your results in turn, and have the other(s) try to back-translate into English - then compare with the original, and discuss the problems you experienced. We successfully did this with people of a variety of Lojban expertise at LogFest. You can do it too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Set #1 - Pre-translated Lojban Aphorisms&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: Two Lojban sentences below correspond to one single English in Set #2. Thus there are 20 Lojban sentences, and only 19 English ones in these two sets.&lt;br /&gt;
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A. mi pu ricfu .ije mi pu pindi .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu xagmau&lt;br /&gt;
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B. le tordu temci morji cu traji se sinma sera&#039;a le turni&lt;br /&gt;
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C. le nu clira ckaklama gi&#039;e clira ckacliva cu rinka le ka kanro joi ricfu joi prije&lt;br /&gt;
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D. le ka terpa cu me lo pa drani se terpa&lt;br /&gt;
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E. le banli to&#039;e jetnu cu zmadu le jetnu le ni se krici&lt;br /&gt;
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F. lo ka krici le cevni cu noroi mintu lo ka prami le cevni&lt;br /&gt;
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G. mi pagbu ro le se tcidu be mi&lt;br /&gt;
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H. lo cevni ka&#039;enai galfi loi purci .iku&#039;i lo circtuca ka&#039;e go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
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I. lo no&#039;e cevni krici cu krici le nu ri cu snuti&lt;br /&gt;
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J. te&#039;inai mi zmadu djica le nu zvati la Filydelfias&lt;br /&gt;
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K. lo sidbo cu na fuzme le prenu poi krici ri&lt;br /&gt;
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L. le clira cipni cu cpacu le curnu&lt;br /&gt;
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M. na curmi le nu djuno roda&lt;br /&gt;
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N. pa nunfenso pe ca lo zantemci cu fanta so nunfenso&lt;br /&gt;
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O. fe le nu catra xaksu lo temci kei fa lo kamni nu penmi cu prane xarci&lt;br /&gt;
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P. ro le nu kusru cu se rinka le ka ruble&lt;br /&gt;
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Q. da poi renvi sepi&#039;o loi balre baca&#039;a mrobi&#039;o sepi&#039;o loi sodva vanju se pinxe&lt;br /&gt;
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R. lo kumte cu simlu lo xirma poi se plafinti lo kamni&lt;br /&gt;
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S. le verba poi terpa le manku ku&#039;o ji le prenu poi terpa le se gusni cu bebna traji&lt;br /&gt;
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T. no da pe le turni cu dunli se sinma lo tordu ni morji&lt;br /&gt;
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Set #2 - Difficulty-Sorted English Originals for Set #1&lt;br /&gt;
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1. (1) An idea isn&#039;t responsible for the people who believe in it. - Don Marquis&lt;br /&gt;
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2. (1) The early bird gets the worm.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. (1) I am a part of all that I have read. - John Kieran&lt;br /&gt;
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4. (1) I&#039;ve been rich and I&#039;ve been poor; rich is better. - Sophie Tucker&lt;br /&gt;
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5. (2) A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee. - Vogue magazine, July, 1958&lt;br /&gt;
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6. (2) God cannot alter the past, but historians can. - Samuel Butler&lt;br /&gt;
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7. (2) An atheist is a man who believes himself an accident. - Francis Thompson&lt;br /&gt;
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8. (2) A stitch in time saves nine. - Benjamin Franklin&lt;br /&gt;
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9. (2) To know all things in not permitted. - Horace&lt;br /&gt;
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10. (2) All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca&lt;br /&gt;
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11. (3) Nothing is so admirable in politics as a short memory. - John Kenneth Galbraith&lt;br /&gt;
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12. (3) The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt&lt;br /&gt;
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13. (3) On the whole I&#039;d rather be in Philadelphia. - W. C. Fields&lt;br /&gt;
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14. (3) Faith is never identical with piety. - Karl Barth&lt;br /&gt;
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15. (3) Early to bed and early to rise / Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. (3) A big lie is more plausible than truth. - Ernest Hemingway&lt;br /&gt;
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17. (3) To kill time, a committee meeting is the perfect weapon. - Laurence J. Peter&lt;br /&gt;
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18. (4) Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light? - Maurice Freehill&lt;br /&gt;
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19. (4) He who lives by the sword shall perish by the champagne cocktail. - Saul Alinsky&lt;br /&gt;
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Set #3 - No-Translations Given: Aphorisms in Difficulty Order&lt;br /&gt;
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1. (1) A page of history is worth a volume of logic. - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. (1) All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions. - Leonardo da Vinci&lt;br /&gt;
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3. (1) You can fool most of the people most of the time - P. T. Barnum&lt;br /&gt;
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4. (1) Examine the contents, not the bottle. - The Talmud&lt;br /&gt;
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5. (1) History is only a confused heap of facts. - Earl of Chesterfield&lt;br /&gt;
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6. (1) I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. - Chinese proverb&lt;br /&gt;
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7. (1) If it is not erotic, it is not interesting. - Fernando Arrabal&lt;br /&gt;
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8. (1) Lo! Men have become the tools of their tools. - Henry David Thoreau&lt;br /&gt;
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9. (1) Native ability without education is like a tree without fruit. - Aristippus&lt;br /&gt;
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10. (1) Not to decide is to decide. - Harvey Cox&lt;br /&gt;
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11. (2) A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. - Joseph Stalin&lt;br /&gt;
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12. (2) Art is not a thing; it is a way. - Elbert Hubbard&lt;br /&gt;
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13. (2) Doubt is not a pleasant mental state but certainty is a ridiculous one. - Voltaire&lt;br /&gt;
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14. (2) History is a cyclic poem written by Time upon the memories of man. - Percy Bysshe Shelley&lt;br /&gt;
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15. (2) If thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought. - George Orwell&lt;br /&gt;
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16. (2) If you scoff at language study ... how, save in terms of language, will you scoff? - Mario Pei&lt;br /&gt;
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17. (2) If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it. - Marcus Tullius Cicero&lt;br /&gt;
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18. (2) In war there is no substitute for victory. - Douglas MacArthur&lt;br /&gt;
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19. (2) My father gave me these hints on speech-making: &amp;quot;be sincere...be brief...be seated.&amp;quot; - James Roosevelt&lt;br /&gt;
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20. (2) Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. - Marie Curie&lt;br /&gt;
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21. (2) No man is a failure who is enjoying life. - William Feather&lt;br /&gt;
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22. (2) Poetry is the rhythmical creation of beauty in words. - Edgar Allan Poe&lt;br /&gt;
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23. (2) Seeing is deceiving. It&#039;s eating that&#039;s believing. - James Thurber&lt;br /&gt;
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24. (2) Shake and shake / The catsup bottle, / None will come, / And then a lot&#039;ll. - Richard Armour&lt;br /&gt;
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25. (2) Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. - Henri Bergson&lt;br /&gt;
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26. (2) Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana&lt;br /&gt;
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27. (2) Those who write clearly have readers; those who write obscurely have commentators. - Albert Camus&lt;br /&gt;
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28. (2) The thoughtless are rarely wordless.&lt;br /&gt;
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29. (2) These Macedonians are a rude and clownish people; they call a spade a spade. - Plutarch&lt;br /&gt;
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30. (2) The heart has its reasons which reason does not understand. - Blaise Pascal&lt;br /&gt;
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31. (2) There is nothing permanent except change. - Heraclitus&lt;br /&gt;
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32. (2) To be a success in business, be daring, be first, be different. - Marchant&lt;br /&gt;
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33. (2) We are tomorrow&#039;s past. - Mary Webb&lt;br /&gt;
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34. (2) What the country needs are a few labor-making inventions. - Arnold Glasow&lt;br /&gt;
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35. (2) Who shall guard the guardians themselves. - Juvenal&lt;br /&gt;
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36. (2) You&#039;ll find in no park or city / A monument to a committee. - Victoria Pasternak&lt;br /&gt;
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37. (2) A belief is not true because it is useful. - Henri Frederic Amiel&lt;br /&gt;
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38. (2) A person gets from a symbol the meaning he puts into it. - The United States Supreme Court&lt;br /&gt;
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39. (2) All the fun&#039;s in how you say a thing. - Robert Frost&lt;br /&gt;
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40. (3) Be obscure clearly. - E. B. White&lt;br /&gt;
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41. (3) I am free of all prejudices. I hate every one equally. - W. C. Fields&lt;br /&gt;
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42. (3) Leadership is action, not position. - Donald H. McGannon&lt;br /&gt;
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43. (3) Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. - George Bernard Shaw&lt;br /&gt;
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44. (3) Passions are vices or virtues to their highest powers. - Johann W. von Goethe&lt;br /&gt;
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45. (3) Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton&lt;br /&gt;
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46. (3) The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that&#039;s the way to bet. - Damon Runyon&lt;br /&gt;
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47. (3) Sometimes I&#039;ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
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48. (3) The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out. - Chinese Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
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49. (3) Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Abraham Lincoln&lt;br /&gt;
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50. (3) The day will come when everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes. - Andy Warhol&lt;br /&gt;
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51. (3) We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - Wernher von Braun&lt;br /&gt;
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52. (3) What is honored in a country will be cultivated there. - Plato&lt;br /&gt;
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53. (3) When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less. - Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
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54. (3) When an idea is wanting a word can always be found to take its place. - Johann W. von Goethe&lt;br /&gt;
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55. (4) &#039;Tain&#039;t what a man don&#039;t know that hurts him; it&#039;s what he knows that just ain&#039;t so! - Frank McKinney Hubbard&lt;br /&gt;
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56. (4) A word is not a crystal, transparent and unchanged; it is the skin of a living thought and may vary greatly in color and content according to the circumstances and time in which it is used. - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.&lt;br /&gt;
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57. (4) Do you realize if it weren&#039;t for Edison we&#039;d be watching TV by candlelight? - Al Boliska&lt;br /&gt;
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58. (4) For every person wishing to teach there are thirty not wanting to be taught. - W. C. Sellar and R. Y. Yeatman&lt;br /&gt;
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59. (4) It&#039;s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards. - Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
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60. (4) Production is not the application of tools to material, but logic to work. - Peter Drucker&lt;br /&gt;
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61. (4) The foolish and the dead alone never change their opinion. - James Russell Lowell&lt;br /&gt;
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62. (4) The past always looks better than it was. It&#039;s only pleasant because it isn&#039;t here. - Finley Peter Dunne&lt;br /&gt;
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63. (4) The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do. - Thomas Jefferson&lt;br /&gt;
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64. (4) When a man has pity on all living creatures then only is he noble. - Buddha&lt;br /&gt;
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For our untranslated Lojban text this issue, I&#039;ll share the floor with Ivan Derzhanski, who was studying in Boston when he wrote the following letter. My answer follows. Ivan wrote his text and understood mine with only level 1 materials. There ARE grammatical errors in Ivan&#039;s letter, but I was able to figure out most of what was intended, and my response corrects those errors.&lt;br /&gt;
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 coi lojbab. do&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o di&#039;e pamoi xatra ci&#039;a mi bau la Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
    .i .oinai.o&#039;u mi cpacu le&#039;i pelji&lt;br /&gt;
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 ni&#039;o mi sidju ledo nu zbasu le reno valsi&lt;br /&gt;
    .i ku&#039;i baze&#039;inai la&#039;edi&#039;u ne ki&#039;u ca nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
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 ni&#039;o .a&#039;ocai do pu&#039;i jimpe se mi ciska&lt;br /&gt;
    .i u&#039;u na mi mutce djuno Lojban. .ije lerci .ije mi tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
    .i .au.a&#039;u mi cpacu zoi &amp;lt;draft textbook lessons&amp;gt; zoi&lt;br /&gt;
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 co&#039;omi&#039;e .iVAN.&lt;br /&gt;
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.ue do xamgu troci lenu cusku bau la Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i la nik. ji&#039;a puzi cpacu le selprina du&#039;i xaunro&#039;i (xamgytroci ta&#039;unai)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi jimpe ledo selsku .iku&#039;i do milxe srera .ijeseku&#039;ibo mi na birti le smuni be ledo vomoi jufra noi pilno le pluja ke temci cmavo .iku&#039;i mi smadi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i lo lojbo cmene cu nitcu lo cmene valsi tcita .iseni&#039;ibo le do xamoi jufra cu se srera .ije do pu djica &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .i .u&#039;u na[ku] mi mutce djuno la Lojban. li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i xu do djica lenu mi ca benji le zasni tadycku kei ji lenu mi denpa ledo benji le krasi bangu selfanva terfanva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi djica lenu do cmima binxo le lojbo ke skami xe mrilu po&#039;u la lojban. list.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.ije ko benji le notci poi vasru ledo skami judri fo zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uniks. lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net .uniks.&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ko cpedu bau la gliban .uu ki&#039;u la erik. na tadni la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi djica lenu do mrilu lo fukpi be le do xatra joi le mi se spuda xatra le lojbo ke skami girzu po&#039;u zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uniks. lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com .uniks.&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i .u&#039;u mi puza srera .ije ledo pamoi se mrilu cu te mrilu zoi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uniks. lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com .uniks.&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ko ranji lenu troci le lojbo cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i co&#039;omi&#039;e lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Note that the network address is no longer correct. See page 2 of this issue for the new address.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Those letters were written in April. In July, Ivan, now back in Bulgaria, sent me a postcard and the following letter. The letter is virtually perfect, having only three minor errors that hardly affect understanding. 1) Ivan had a &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; quote on the name, which I&#039;ve replaced with lo&#039;u/le&#039;u quotes since there is more than one word. 2) Lojbanized names should end in a consonant, but inside &#039;ungrammatical Lojban text&#039; quotes, this does not matter. 3) Ivan&#039;s original: &amp;quot;pa le tercfi lemi natmi beme&#039;e zo ...&amp;quot; meant that his nation, and not the author, had the indicated name.&lt;br /&gt;
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A portion of the text is embedded English. Ivan asks for help in expressing some concepts, which will be obvious in the text, even if you can&#039;t read the Lojban. Please suggest tanru or lujvo for any or all of them. If you are not confident at lujvo-making from a tanru, but feel that the concept should be expressed in a single word, put the Lojban words together separated by a hyphen. I encourage that proposed lujvo come with a plausible place structure. I&#039;ll collect the suggestions and send them to Ivan.&lt;br /&gt;
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I note in passing that &amp;quot;LogFest&amp;quot; has the impermissible medial &#039;gf&#039; which makes it a bad Lojbanized name. Maybe it is time we switch the name to Lojban since people are starting to write about it in Lojban. What do people think of &amp;quot;la jbosalci&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
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de&#039;e xatra tu&#039;i la pijyta&#039;u de&#039;i li pa pi&#039;e ze pi&#039;e sopa&lt;br /&gt;
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coi lojbab.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi rinsa do tebe&#039;i lemi tcadu no&#039;u le la bulgariax. ralta&#039;u .i .oiru&#039;e mutce lenku .i le djacu carvi cu na sisti&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi troci ke lojbo fanva lo lisri be ci&#039;a pa le tercfi pe lemi natmi zi&#039;e peme&#039;e lo&#039;u XRISto. SMIRnenski. le&#039;u be&#039;o .iku&#039;i pi su&#039;o loi selsku cu dukse nandu mi .i mi benji lo pagbu be ri do .i .e&#039;o ko stidi le lojbo velsku&lt;br /&gt;
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.i zoi. problem.&lt;br /&gt;
# dedicate (a story) to (sbd.)&lt;br /&gt;
# clench one&#039;s fist; fist (n.)&lt;br /&gt;
# bribe; ransom&lt;br /&gt;
# betray&lt;br /&gt;
# tear, rend (cloth); rag (n,&lt;br /&gt;
# bend, lean over (sbd.)&lt;br /&gt;
# threat, menace (n.)&lt;br /&gt;
# rush, dash&lt;br /&gt;
# shrill, piercing (sound)&lt;br /&gt;
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: .problem.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o.a&#039;o la LogFest. pe le cabnanca pu snada&lt;br /&gt;
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co&#039;omi&#039;e .iVAN.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nick Nicholas, our Australian/Greek/Esperantist Lojban star is interested in exploring Lojban stylistics. Although he has worked on learning Lojban only a few months, he has a command of the language about as good as anyone has. Perhaps too good - his writings may be beyond the capability of most readers&#039; following. This is sad because the stylistic variation in the Lojban that he was trying to achieve is quite obvious. Equally important, it is quite interesting.&lt;br /&gt;
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I urge everyone willing to spend a bit of time to try various portions of the text (some are more difficult than others). Feel free to liberally cheat and look back at the translation section, or perhaps just read the text with translation there. Skip around and sample the five sections, and see if you too can perceive the stylistic variation in the Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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A warning with a suggestion - this is not an easy text; indeed, it goes far beyond the draft textbook lessons in use of the grammar. Do not get too hung up if you cannot figure out a word (Nick even uses a couple that are not in the published cmavo list, but are noted in the JL14 change pages, or in the discussion above on sumti-raising. I&#039;ve tried to identify these and work around this problem, but may have missed something.) Try to get the gist of what is being said, and the words may become clear from context. And don&#039;t get hung up on one sentence too long - move on to the next one.&lt;br /&gt;
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The following is translated from modern Greek. Freddy Germanos, (1934- ) is a newspaper columnist, and this is taken from a book collection of his columns for the Mesimvrin&#039;i (Midday) paper, printed in 1967 by Galaxias publishers. The title of the book is &#039;To Dhis Examartein&#039; (&#039;Sinning Twice&#039; - alluding to the ancient Greek saying, &amp;quot;Sinning twice is not [a characteristic] of a wise man&amp;quot;. The parody is on pp. 12-13 of the 7th edition, dated March 1974, by Grigoris Publishers, 73 Solonos St., Athens. There is no copyright notice on the book.&lt;br /&gt;
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lonu reroi pacnunzu&#039;e cu na se ckaji lo prije&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;o la fredis. germaNOS. pu finti .i la kir. pu te pinxe pamo&#039;o .i memi&#039;a poi te prosa&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;o nuzba&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;o le briju cu so&#039;iroi se klama so&#039;olemi pendo poi co&#039;a se jibri zu&#039;i po mi gi&#039;e preti cpedu le tarmi po&#039;e lo nuzba nu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o .i&#039;a loi nuzba ne semau roda vajrai ci&#039;elo karni nu cupra .iku&#039;i cinri fa lo karni poi mu&#039;i lenu ke&#039;a pilno ku cusku le go&#039;i .i rolo karni cu ckaji leri tadji be le nuzba nu cusku .i la&#039;edi&#039;u nibli lenu ra se tcidu co frili gi&#039;a se tcidu naku&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mupli lo nuzba poi mutce sampu .i lo nixli be li mu ca lepu&#039;u kelci levo&#039;a bolci cu farlu lo skuro poi karbi&#039;o se kakpa lei gunka pole ta&#039;utru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i tarmi le ve cusku be le nuzba bei pi&#039;o la karni be de&#039;i roboi lo djedi be&#039;oku (to la roldei toi) .i&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu di&#039;o lo paboi te kruca be le klaji poi se cmene la .adriaNOS. vauku&#039;o bei le klaji poi se cmene la paleologos. ku&#039;obe&#039;oku ko&#039;a goi paboi lo nixli be muboi lo nanca be&#039;oku ge&#039;u pu se xrani ca lepu&#039;u ko&#039;a cu kelci da noi ke&#039;a se tarmi lo bolci vauku&#039;ovaukeivau .i le nu xrani vaukei cu diklo fe&#039;eba&#039;o va paboi le zdani be lai paleologon. benizelon. be&#039;oku noi la kamBUroglus. pu skicu ke&#039;a ta&#039;i lo se ciska ku tai loka lanli vaukeivauku&#039;ovau .i la&#039;edi&#039;e cu cizra zo&#039;e lenu fasnu vaukei ne sekai leka na xlura vaukeige&#039;uvau .i paboi lo reboi rirni be la kamBUroglus. be&#039;oku pu binxo le speni be paboi lo reboi rirni be la kamBUroglus. be&#039;oku poi na du vo&#039;a ku&#039;o soivo&#039;avo&#039;e se&#039;u be&#039;oku vi le zdani be lai varvatis. be&#039;oku noi jibni le zdani be lai paleologon. benizelon. be&#039;okuvauku&#039;ovau .i le nixli ki na se ckape vau &lt;br /&gt;
: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ke&#039;unai vecu&#039;u la akROpolis. le nuzba cu ka&#039;e ckaji loka zmadu cinri bo cfipu .i&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu pu zgana ne&#039;i lo skuro lo se xrani. goi ko&#039;a poi mebrai nixli gi&#039;e jarco lo frili se viska jalge be lonu vlile .i ri&#039;anai lenu le zekri lifri po&#039;u ko&#039;a na pujaca skicu fi lei pulji kei ca cipra fa ri lejei na&#039;e snuti (to pupu jinvi to&#039;ebori toi) gi&#039;e cinse zekri .i lo kamni poi se cmima le mi karni zbasu caca&#039;a cipra fi le tcini mu&#039;i lenu djica co danfu fo re preti ra&#039;u po&#039;u di&#039;e .i pamai xu le nixli pu cinse vlile lifri .i remai fau lenu ko&#039;a na&#039;eke cinse vlile lifri kei ko&#039;a na&#039;eke cinse vlile lifri ki&#039;u ma&lt;br /&gt;
: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i li&#039;a vecu&#039;u la cermurse [see the new gismu added this issue] sesau se basna fa loi drata tcila .i&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu nixli .i ko&#039;a pe leni slabu .i ri du mu nanca .i xrani ca le purlamdei .i farlu lo skuro po la ta&#039;utru ca lenu kelci le bolci .i ko&#039;a ze&#039;iba tavla palemi karnypra .i ko&#039;a fatci xusra .i&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi farlu le skuro .i ni&#039;ibo mi na citka ca re djedi .i besna se cfipu .i lemi mamta cu selfu seljibri .i lemi patfu cu na&#039;e dinycpa .i ni&#039;ibo ri roroi pantydzu &lt;br /&gt;
:: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ice ka&#039;e zgana cusku fo la natmi nu&#039;arki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu lenu xrani cu se rinka lonu pimo&#039;ale skuro cu te sabji lo gacri .i ni&#039;inai lenu na catni se xusra cu cusku lenu fuzme fa relo gunka pe le ta&#039;utru ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ze&#039;u .o&#039;onai kaurposysi&#039;orpre .i lei pulji cu cipra lejei zasti fa loi flana&#039;etinbe gripre noi pu zukte lo drata nu jecyselxrazei &lt;br /&gt;
: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i romai la deimid. cfari le ni&#039;onrai tarmi be loi nuzba&lt;br /&gt;
: .i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu se tirna fa lo voksa .i se viska fa lo xance poi se desku tai loka ti&#039;e pacna zi&#039;epoi cpedu lenu sidju .ibabo smaji .i ?ma pu fasnu .i mi ciksi .i lo nixli pu sakli mo&#039;ine&#039;i lo skuro .ibazabo le nixli cu bacru&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi farlu ri&#039;a lenu la paf. na di&#039;i tcidu la deimid. &lt;br /&gt;
:: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
: li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick asked for a return of &amp;quot;lei lojbo&amp;quot;, Nora&#039;s comic strip. In honor of Nick&#039;s efforts, and his Esperantist background, enjoy the following page. Esperanto text was aided by David Twery.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lei lojbo by Nora LeChevalier&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:96.sip| |lei lojbo]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 lo zekri  fi&#039;e    la bab. tcySEL.&lt;br /&gt;
 A  crime, created by Bob Chassell&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably just &amp;quot;zekri&amp;quot;, an observative, would be better. Stand-alone sumti in Lojban suggest an answer to a &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; question. With the &amp;quot;fi&#039;e&amp;quot; author label, &amp;quot;me la&#039;ezo zekri ...&amp;quot; might be still better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi cadzu     pagre        le vorme      le kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
    I  walkingly pass through the door into the room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need a word for doorway, probably as a place of &amp;quot;vorme&amp;quot;. I doubt that the door itself was passed through.&lt;br /&gt;
Bob several times uses &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; in ways I can&#039;t quite figure out. As a reader, whenever I see &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; attached to a new description, I expect to see some restrictive relative clause that tells which one &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; door is, and which one &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; room is. When I don&#039;t, as here, I get narrative suspense, which may be the intent. But one normally expects the suspense will resolve. I have made the English translate in a literal fashion that suggests what Bob&#039;s descriptor choices would be interpreted as.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i lo xadni pe le  nanmu cu vreta         lo loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    A  body  of the man      reclines upon a  floor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; is an unnaturally loose &#039;possessive&#039; for this relation. Bob could have used &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; since the man could be the x2 of &amp;quot;xadni&amp;quot;. Normally one thinks of a body as inalienably associated with a particular person, so &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; would seem more natural than &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi viska le  flecu   be loi ciblu bei fo       le  xadni&lt;br /&gt;
    I  see   the current of     Blood flowing from the body.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob C.&#039;s Note: I suggest that &amp;quot;flecu&amp;quot; be given the same form as &amp;quot;fall&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;x1 flows to x2 ...&amp;quot; instead of the current: flecu fec fle flow current of/in..flowing to..from..&#039;flush&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob L. responds: That would be a different, and narrower meaning of &amp;quot;flow&amp;quot;. This is the &#039;noun&#039; version of &amp;quot;flow&amp;quot;, which can include oceanic currents, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi sisku loi sinxa         be le                 zekri&lt;br /&gt;
    I  seek      Signs/Symbols of the described-as-a (alleged) crime.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi viska loi kevna pe              loi danti ge&#039;u be lo sefta   be lo jubme&lt;br /&gt;
    I  see       Holes associated with     Bullets    in a  surface of a  table.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Presumably the bullets made only one hole each, so &amp;quot;lo kevna&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lo danti&amp;quot; might be better than &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; can apply to plural things, as long as the statement is true of each separate item. can apply to plural things, as long as the statement is true of each separate item.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije  mi viska lo nu         loi cukta pu farlu      lo kajna    lo jubme e   lo loldi &lt;br /&gt;
   And I  see   an event that     Books fell     from a  shelf to a  table and a  floor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is no inference permitted that this &amp;quot;lo loldi&amp;quot; is the same floor as the one that the body was on. This is one problem with &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;, which is never restricted unless explicitly so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije mi viska lo nu         lo canko cu kalri&lt;br /&gt;
  And I  see   an event that a  window   is open.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi catlu   lo plita ke bartu    drudi noi   lo&#039;e      prenu  cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
    I  look at a  flat  ,  exterior roof  which a typical person walks (on it).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi cusku fi la tam. noi              pulji  ku&#039;o fe lu pe&#039;i              le  zekri prenu   pu cpare     le  plita ke bartu    drudi   le canko   pe le kumfa  li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
    I  say      to Tom, who-incidentally polices,       &amp;quot;  I think [I opine] the crime person  climbed over the flat  ,  exterior-roof to the window of the room. &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i la tam. cusku lu ia.           ie.&lt;br /&gt;
       Tom  says  &amp;quot;  Yes (belief), I agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i ko catlu   le  kevna  be le  bitmu be&#039;o poi   ke&#039;a trixe     le  pixra&lt;br /&gt;
       Look at the cavity in the wall       which it   is behind the picture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i le  kevna cu vasru    lo tanxe .ije  ri                   kunti zo&#039;e                     li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
    The cavity   contains a  box     and The last referent is empty of something unspecified.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i la tam. cusku lu ju&#039;e       le   tanxe   pu vasru            loi rupnu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
       Tom  says, &amp;quot;  I conclude that the box contained [full of] Money.    &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;full of&amp;quot; is not implied in the Lojban. Perhaps &amp;quot;vasru culno&amp;quot; would do so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi catlu   le  vorme pe le  tanxe  pe                le  bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
    I  look at the door  of the box in [associated with] the wall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, &amp;quot;vorme be le tanxe&amp;quot; seems better. (&#039;Use the place structures, Luke&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi cusku lu ba&#039;a     le  stela cu porpi&lt;br /&gt;
    I  say   &amp;quot;  I expect the lock     is broken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i .ua         .ue        mi facki         lo  za&#039;i     ge   lo vorme gi  lo stela na     porpi  li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
    (Discovery! Surprise!) I  discover that the state of both a  door  and a  lock  is not broken.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi cusku fi la tam. fe lu le  minra  pu   farlu lo bitmu   lo loldi gi&#039;e pu porpi li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
    I  say      to Tom,    &amp;quot;  The mirror fell from  a  wall to a  floor and  broke.   &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i la tam. cusku lu pe&#039;i              le  morsi nanmu pu lacpu le  minra     lo loldi      lo bitmu&lt;br /&gt;
       Tom  says  &amp;quot;  I think [I opine] the dead  man   pulled   the mirror to a  floor from a  wall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i se&#039;o           mi&#039;o          catlu      lo sinxa   da        poi  ke&#039;a vajni            lo nu       sisku   li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
    I have a hunch you and I are looking at a  sign of something that [it] is important for an event of seeking.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&amp;quot;se&#039;o&amp;quot; is listed in the JL14 changes.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i la tam. cusku lu ra&#039;u            ju&#039;e       lo  prenu  poi ke&#039;a     pu sazri le  stela             lo za&#039;i           kalri ku&#039;o djuno fi    lo tadji  be lo pu&#039;u       kalri sazri     le  tanxe vorme li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
       Tom  said, &amp;quot;  Most important, I conclude the person who (he/she) operated the lock with goal of a  state-of-being open       knows about a  method of a  process of open  operating the box   door. &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I made some minor changes to Bob&#039;s original of this and the line so it would fit the place structure of &amp;quot;djuno&amp;quot; described in the sumti-raising article above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i mi cusku lu ganai tu&#039;a                 le  zekri prenu goi ko&#039;a ge   kalri rinka  le  stela tanxe&lt;br /&gt;
    I  said   &amp;quot; If    (in doing something) the thief           (x1) both open  caused the lock  box&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ginai       spofu  rinka  tu&#039;a ri ]&lt;br /&gt;
 and did not broken causes      it (the lock box) (to be something; i.e., broken).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 gi   ko&#039;a cu djuno fi    lo pu&#039;u       kalri sazri     le  tanxe vorme &lt;br /&gt;
 then he      knows about a  process of open  operating the box   door.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 This is an excellent example of both forethought logical connectives (which Bob figured out how to properly do even though that textbook lesson has not yet been written), and of the necessity for sumti-raising (I added the &amp;quot;tu&#039;a&amp;quot;s). Without marking the sumti-raising, it is especially easy to see that &amp;quot;spofu rinka ri&amp;quot; does not translate properly: &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;, the lock box is the x2 place of &amp;quot;rinka&amp;quot;, an event caused.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i .ua          ru&#039;a        ko&#039;a catlu     le  se minra  be le  nu       kalri sazri     le  stela tanxe vorme sepi&#039;o     lo darno ke      catlu      cabra                 li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
    (discovery!) I postulate x1   looked at the reflected of the event of open  operating the lock  box   door  using tool a  far   type-of looking-at apparatus [telescope].&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is the translation of John Cowan&#039;s story:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi xamrei ra&#039;a lo verba&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;first funny-question associated-with a child &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la paf. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu pau mazo&#039;o crino gi&#039;e dandu le bitmu gi&#039;e siclu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New subject) Dad says &amp;quot;What (funny!) is-green and hangs-on the wall and whistles?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .uanai mi na djuno li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Kid says &amp;quot;(Confusion!) I do-not know&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .ui lo me la clupe&#039;as. xarengus. finpe li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Dad says &amp;quot;(Happiness!) A Clupeas-harengus type-of fish [a herring]&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .ia ri goi ko&#039;a na crino li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Kid says &amp;quot;(Belief!) That-last, or it1, is-not green&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fu&#039;i le nu ko gasnu cu rinka le nu ko&#039;a ba crino li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Dad says &amp;quot;(Easy!) The event-of you (Imperative!) acting is-the-cause-of the event-of it1 will-be green&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .iasai ko&#039;a ba&#039;e na dandu le bitmu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Kid says &amp;quot;(Belief-moderate!) It1 does-not hang-on the wall&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fu&#039;isai le nu ko gasnu cu rinka le nu ko&#039;a ba dandu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Dad says &amp;quot;(Easy-moderate!) The event-of you (Imperative!) acting is-the-cause-of the event-of it1 will hang&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la ver. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .iacai ko&#039;a ba&#039;e ba&#039;e na siclu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Kid says &amp;quot;(Belief-intense!) It1 does-not whistle&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la paf. cusku &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fu&#039;icai mi pu cusku lo jitfa li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Dad says &amp;quot;(Easy-intense!) I (past) express a false-thing.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matches between Set #2 and Set #1 Aphorisms&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. (1) An idea isn&#039;t responsible for the people who believe in it. - Don Marquis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;K. lo sidbo cu na fuzme le prenu poi krici ri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. (1) The early bird gets the worm.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;L. le clira cipni cu cpacu le curnu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. (1) I am a part of all that I have read. - John Kieran&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;G. mi pagbu ro le se tcidu be mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. (1) I&#039;ve been rich and I&#039;ve been poor; rich is better. - Sophie Tucker&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A. mi pu ricfu .ije mi pu pindi .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu xagmau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. (2) A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee. - Vogue magazine, July, 1958&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;R. lo kumte cu simlu lo xirma poi se plafinti lo kamni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. (2) God cannot alter the past, but historians can. - Samuel Butler&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;H. lo cevni ka&#039;enai galfi loi purci .iku&#039;i lo circtuca ka&#039;e go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. (2) An atheist is a man who believes himself an accident. - Francis Thompson&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I. lo no&#039;e cevni krici cu krici le nu ri cu snuti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. (2) A stitch in time saves nine.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;N. pa nunfenso pe ca lo zantemci cu fanta so nunfenso&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. (2) To know all things in not permitted. - Horace&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;M. na curmi le nu djuno roda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. (2) All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;P. ro le nu kusru cu se rinka le ka ruble&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. (3) Nothing is so admirable in politics as a short memory. - John Kenneth Galbraith&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;B. le tordu temci morji cu traji se sinma sera&#039;a le turni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;or&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;T. no da pe le turni cu dunli se sinma lo tordu ni morji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. (3) The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;D. le ka terpa cu me lo pa drani se terpa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. (3) On the whole I&#039;d rather be in Philadelphia. - W. C. Fields&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;J. te&#039;inai mi zmadu djica le nu zvati la Filydelfias&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. (3) Faith is never identical with piety. - Karl Barth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;F. lo ka krici le cevni cu noroi mintu lo ka prami le cevni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15. (3) Early to bed and early to rise / Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;C. le nu clira ckaklama gi&#039;e clira ckacliva cu rinka le ka kanro joi ricfu joi prije&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16. (3) A big lie is more plausible than truth. - Ernest Hemingway &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;E. le banli to&#039;e jetnu cu zmadu le jetnu le ni se krici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
17. (3) To kill time, a committee meeting is the perfect weapon. - Laurence J. Peter &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;O. fe le nu catra xaksu lo temci kei fa lo kamni nu penmi cu prane xarci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
18. (4) Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light? - Maurice Freehill&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;S. le verba poi terpa le manku ku&#039;o ji le prenu poi terpa le se gusni cu bebna traji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
19. (4) He who lives by the sword shall perish by the champagne cocktail. - Saul Alinsky&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Q. da poi renvi sepi&#039;o loi balre baca&#039;a mrobi&#039;o sepi&#039;o loi sodva vanju se pinxe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nick&#039;s translation of a Greek newspaper&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lonu reroi pacnunzu&#039;e cu na se ckaji lo prije&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;o la fredis. germaNOS. pu finti &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i la kir. pu te pinxe pamo&#039;o &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i memi&#039;a poi te prosa ni&#039;oni&#039;oni&#039;o nuzba ni&#039;oni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Title] Events of twice sinning [evil-events-of-acting] are not characteristic of the wise ones. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[Author] Freddy Germanos created. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[Section] Kir is Drunk From, Section I. We Who Write Prose.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[Article] News&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le briju cu so&#039;iroi se klama so&#039;olemi pendo poi co&#039;a se jibri zu&#039;i po mi gi&#039;e preti cpedu le tarmi po&#039;e lo nuzba nu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The office is oftentimes come-to-by several of my friends who initially are be-jobbed by that typical of us and who questioningly-request the form which is inalienable to news expressings.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;To the office often come friends who are just getting started in our profession, and who ask me how to write news.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .i&#039;a loi nuzba ne semau roda vajrai ci&#039;elo karni nu cupra .iku&#039;i cinri fa lo karni poi mu&#039;i lenu ke&#039;a pilno ku cusku le go&#039;i .i rolo karni cu ckaji leri tadji be le nuzba nu cusku .i la&#039;edi&#039;u nibli lenu ra se tcidu co frili gi&#039;a se tcidu naku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Acceptance) News, more than all-other-somethings is superlatively-important in-system journal-producing. However, interesting is the journal which, motivated by it using, (something) expresses News [the x1 of the previous bridi]. Each journal is characterized by its method of news-expressing. This [that they are so characterized] necessitates that it [uncertain - could be the news-expressing, the method, each journal] is a read-thing of-type easy, or is a read-thing not-so.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;News is of course the Alpha and Omega of journalism [Greek: public-writing]. But what&#039;s important is which paper you write it for. Each paper has its own style of writing news. This results in them being read more easily - or not at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Bob: &amp;quot;News, more than all-things, is superlatively-important.&amp;quot; - This is highly redundant. There are alternate phrasings using the places of &amp;quot;traji&amp;quot;, but the minimal change is &amp;quot;loi nuzba ne semau da&#039;ada vajni&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;News, more than all-other-things, is important.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:: I modified one phrase, where Nick used &amp;quot;lo karni poi jaipi&#039;o cusku le go&#039;i&amp;quot;, since the usage is not on anyone&#039;s cmavo list, and was so vague, I had trouble figuring it out WITH knowledge and the English. &amp;quot;jaipi&#039;o&amp;quot; is the new tagged-sumti-place converter/extractor (the equivalent of a SE conversion) intended to help clarify sumti-raising. Since Nick&#039;s version elliptically omitted the &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot;, you have to guess where it was supposed to go. I made the following transformations, which are the obvious deductions and equivalences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;lo karni poi &amp;lt;jaipi&#039;o cusku le go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;lo karni poi &amp;lt;ke&#039;a jaipi&#039;o cusku le go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;quot; (inserting &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; at the beginning)&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;lo karni poi &amp;lt;pi&#039;o ke&#039;a cusku le go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;quot; (The &amp;quot;jaipi&#039;o&amp;quot; means that &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; is the &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot;-tagged sumti of the selbri (which is &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;The journal which used by it [something] expresses the x1 of the previous sentence (News)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:: This can possibly be interpreted to mean the colloquial English, but has more the sense of &amp;quot;which paper uses your writing&amp;quot;. Clearly the emphasis in this article is on the what the writer writes and why, and the motivational implication (&amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot;) of &amp;quot;who you write it for&amp;quot; is lost. Even if Nick&#039;s original means what he wanted, the &amp;quot;jaipi&#039;o&amp;quot; is far more opaque than the equivalent &amp;quot;pi&#039;o ke&#039;a&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mupli lo nuzba poi mutce sampu .i lo nixli be li mu ca lepu&#039;u kelci levo&#039;a bolci cu farlu lo skuro poi karbi&#039;o se kakpa lei gunka pole ta&#039;utru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Example of a news item which is much simple. A girl of age #5, simultaneous with the process of playing with x1&#039;s [her] ball, falls to a groove which open-becomingly is-dug-by workers owned by the city-government.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Let&#039;s examine a very simple news item. A girl, aged 5, while playing with her ball, falls into a trench opened by a Municipal crew.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: The age place on &amp;quot;nixli&amp;quot; seems wrongly-expressed. I think more correct is &amp;quot;lo nixli be lo nanca mumoi&amp;quot;, optionally omitting the &amp;quot;nanca&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[There follow five different reports, one upper-class in archaic prose concentrating on the famous socialites living next door to the trench, one sensationalist speculating on rape, one communist calling for a class struggle, one anti-communist hinting at Red sabotage, and Germanos&#039; own paper claiming she fell in because her father did not buy said paper.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i tarmi le ve cusku be le nuzba bei pi&#039;o la karni be de&#039;i roboi lo djedi be&#039;oku (to la roldei toi)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Form of the medium of expression of the news, used by the-one-called Journal Associated with Date Each-Day (The Each-day).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[Here&#039;s] how you&#039;d write the news in the Daily.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: [Bob: I changed Nick&#039;s journal title to match the style of the newspaper. Nick had originally used the parenthetical name]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{Very archaic Greek follows. I&#039;ve emulated it by expanding all tanru, and lots of terminators.}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu di&#039;o lo paboi te kruca be le klaji poi se cmene la .adriaNOS. vauku&#039;o bei le klaji poi se cmene la paleologos. ku&#039;obe&#039;oku ko&#039;a goi paboi lo nixli be muboi lo nanca be&#039;oku ge&#039;u pu se xrani ca lepu&#039;u ko&#039;a cu kelci da noi ke&#039;a se tarmi lo bolci vauku&#039;ovaukeivau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;At the locus of the single crossing-point of the street which is named &#039;Adrianos&#039; with the street which is named &#039;Paleologos&#039;, it1, defined as one girl of age 5 years was-injured, simultaneous with the process of it1 playing with something, which it has form of a ball.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;At the intersection of Adrian and Palaeologus streets a five year old maiden was injured while she did ludificate with her sphere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le nu xrani vaukei cu diklo fe&#039;eba&#039;o va paboi le zdani be lai paleologon. benizelon. be&#039;oku noi la kamBUroglus. pu skicu ke&#039;a ta&#039;i lo se ciska ku tai loka lanli vaukeivauku&#039;ovau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The event of injury is local to beyond [something] near one of the nests of the mass called Paleologon-Benizelon, which [house] Kamburoglus described it in form inscribed, in manner analytical.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The accident occurred directly opposite the domicile of the Palaeologus-Benizelos family, about which [the house] Kambouroglou has written analytically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la&#039;edi&#039;e cu cizra zo&#039;e lenu fasnu vaukei ne sekai leka na xlura vaukeige&#039;uvau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;That referred by the following utterance is bizarre to unspecified one(s) in occurrence characterized-by not-influencer-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;By a most strange coincidence,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i paboi lo reboi rirni be la kamBUroglus. be&#039;oku pu binxo le speni be paboi lo reboi rirni be la kamBUroglus. be&#039;oku poi na du vo&#039;a ku&#039;o soivo&#039;avo&#039;e se&#039;u be&#039;oku vi le zdani be lai varvatis. be&#039;oku noi jibni le zdani be lai paleologon. benizelon. be&#039;okuvauku&#039;ovau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;One of the two parents of Kamburoglus became the spouse of one of the two parents of Kamburoglus which was not = x1 [the first &#039;one of the two parents of Kamburoglus&#039;], and x2 to x1 [or &amp;quot;vice versa&amp;quot;; the latter became the spouse of the former, too] at the nest of the mass called Varvatis which is near the nest of the mass called Paleologon-Benizelon&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The parents of Kambouroglou were bewedded in the Varvatis domicile, which is next to the P-B domicile.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le nixli ki na se ckape vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The girl is presently not imperiled.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The maiden is out of danger.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ke&#039;unai vecu&#039;u la akROpolis. le nuzba cu ka&#039;e ckaji loka zmadu cinri bo cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Continuing, in medium the Acropolis, the news can be characterized by more interestingly-confusing.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;On the other hand, in the Acropolis the news item could take on a more enigmatic character. {Note very dreadful tanru in the following.}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu pu zgana ne&#039;i lo skuro lo se xrani. goi ko&#039;a poi mebrai nixli gi&#039;e jarco lo frili se viska jalge be lonu vlile&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Observed, inside a groove, an injured, hereinafter it1, who is beautiful-mostly girlish, and displays easily-seen results of events of violence.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;There has been found wounded, in a ditch, a most beautiful maiden bearing obvious signs of abuse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri&#039;anai lenu le zekri lifri po&#039;u ko&#039;a na pujaca skicu fi lei pulji kei ca cipra fa ri lejei na&#039;e snuti (to pupu jinvi to&#039;ebori toi) gi&#039;e cinse zekri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Despite the-event the crime-experiencer who is it1 not before-or-now describes to the police, simultaneously testing by them [the police] the truth value of other-than-accidental (had earlier opined opposite-of-this [accidental]) and sexual-crime.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Although the victim has not yet made her statement, the police is investigating whether this was no accident, as had been thought initially, but a crime of a sexual nature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo kamni poi se cmima le mi karni zbasu caca&#039;a cipra fi le tcini mu&#039;i lenu djica co danfu fo re preti ra&#039;u po&#039;u di&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A committee which is bemembered by our journal-makers is presently testing among the situation motivated by the event of desiring of type answers to two questions, chiefly, which follow.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A team of our editors is already investigating the matter to answer two main questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai xu le nixli pu cinse vlile lifri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, Is it true that the girl was a sexually-violent-experiencer?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a) was the maiden raped?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai fau lenu ko&#039;a na&#039;eke cinse vlile lifri kei ko&#039;a na&#039;eke cinse vlile lifri ki&#039;u ma li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, in the event of it1 [the girl} other-than sexually-violent-experiences, it1 other-than sexually-violent-experiences justified by what?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;b) if the maiden was not raped, why was she not raped?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i li&#039;a vecu&#039;u la cermurse sesau se basna fa loi drata tcila&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Clearly, in media-of-expression the-one called morning-twilight, necessarily, are-emphasized Other Details.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Of course in the Dawn other points must be emphasized. {Very folksy/dialectical Greek follows}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu nixli .i ko&#039;a pe leni slabu .i ri du mu nanca .i xrani ca le purlamdei .i farlu lo skuro po la ta&#039;utru ca lenu kelci le bolci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Girl. It1 [not defined, but obvious. This fits the style.] associated with age. Age = 5 year-intervals. Injury simultaneous with the past-adjacent-day [yesterday]. Faller to a groove owned by the-one(s)-named City-Government, simultaneous with the playing with the ball.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;A li&#039;l girl, 5 yr old, got hurt yesterday, falling, while she was playin&#039; with her ball, into a City ditch.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a ze&#039;iba tavla palemi karnypra .i ko&#039;a fatci xusra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 after-the-momently talks to one of our journal-producers. It1 factually asserts.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Talking later to one of our editors, she put things straight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: There is current debate going on that may change the interpretation of &amp;quot;ze&#039;iba&amp;quot;. I left it unchanged on the basis of the published cmavo list. Whatever is eventually decided will be reflected in the in-progress paper on interpreting tenses, and in updates to the cmavo list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi farlu le skuro .i ni&#039;ibo mi na citka ca re djedi .i besna se cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I fall to the groove. Logically-necessary because I not eat during 2 days. Brainily-confused-by.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&#039;I fell in that ditch cause I hadn&#039;t eaten for two days. I bin dizzy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lemi mamta cu selfu seljibri .i lemi patfu cu na&#039;e dinycpa .i ni&#039;ibo ri roroi pantydzu li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;My mother is servant bejobbed. My father other-than money-gets. Logically-necessary because he always [Nick had a complex tense here that wasn&#039;t quite right, added nothing, and seemed like more than a 5-year-old&#039;s mouthful] protest-walks.&#039;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;My momma works as a servant. My poppa can&#039;t get a day&#039;s wages cause he&#039;s always on protest marches.&#039;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ice ka&#039;e zgana cusku fo la natmi nu&#039;arki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And next (not in any order) can observing-express in-medium the National News-Crier.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;While in the National Herald it could be noted that:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu lenu xrani cu se rinka lonu pimo&#039;ale skuro cu te sabji lo gacri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The event of injuring is caused by an event of too-little-of the groove being supplied with a cover.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The accident is due to the incomplete covering of the ditch.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ni&#039;inai lenu na catni se xusra cu cusku lenu fuzme fa relo gunka pe le ta&#039;utru ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ze&#039;u .o&#039;onai kaurposysi&#039;orpre&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Logically despite [Note how Nick has both political extremes prone to invoking &amp;quot;Logic&amp;quot; in attacking each other. Very cute, Nick!] the event of it-being-false that [something] is-authority-asserted, [something] expresses the-event-of Responsible are two workers associated with the city-government and incidentally, for-a-long-time (Anger!) common-owner-idea-persons.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Although there has been no formal announcement, it is said that those responsible are two City workers, who are longtime communists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Nick had omitted the &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot;, which made the second relative clause apply to &amp;quot;le nu fuzme&amp;quot;. Multiple relative clauses and other sumti modifiers attached with selma&#039;o GOI and NOI is one place that the language can get clumsy, and you can easily make errors. So I recommend using &amp;quot;zi&#039;e&amp;quot; to join such multiple modifiers.&lt;br /&gt;
:: Nick&#039;s lujvo for &amp;quot;communists&amp;quot; is not the best I&#039;ve seen. JCB used &amp;quot;ownerly-common-believer&amp;quot;. I think this is close, but backwards - this is best shown by using the inverted form of the tanru: it should be &amp;quot;ownership of type common&amp;quot;, and not &amp;quot;common things of type owner&amp;quot;. I prefer the similar &amp;quot;common-owner-believe&amp;quot; or better-by-massifying: &amp;quot;community-owner-believe&amp;quot;. However from the standpoint of the conservatives who wrote this article, perhaps &amp;quot;worker-own-believer&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;public-owner-believer&amp;quot; might convey some of the apparent distaste for the &#039;lower-class&#039; orientation. (Anyone want to work on lujvo for a variety of political and social credos? What is the linguistic difference between &amp;quot;Democrats&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Republicans&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: I also think &amp;quot;mabla&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;, I&#039;m sure the newspaper would use it enough to lujvo-ize it) on the front of whatever the word for &amp;quot;communists&amp;quot; would be better than the attitudinal, which seems rather to fit the style of the sensationalist tabloid. (Incidentally, I think all quoted text from supposedly &#039;real people&#039; would be richer in attitudinals in all versions of the story. We use a lot of attitudinals in conversation here. This would heighten the distinction between the repertorial voice and the voice of the people being interviewed.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lei pulji cu cipra lejei zasti fa loi flana&#039;etinbe gripre noi pu zukte lo drata nu jecyselxrazei li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Police are testing the truth of existence of Law-non-obeying Group-People [massed] who acted at other events of state-injured-crime.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The police is investigating whether this is an illegal network, which has acted out other acts of sabotage in the past.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Nick should consider variations and compounds of &amp;quot;sisku&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;seek&amp;quot;) or fakro&#039;i (&amp;quot;discover-try&amp;quot;) or &amp;quot;lanli&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;analyze&amp;quot;) &amp;quot;cliro&#039;i&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;learn-try&amp;quot;) for &amp;quot;investigate&amp;quot;, which he has translated as being the same as &amp;quot;test&amp;quot; in all versions of the story. I liked his &#039;conservative&#039; translation of &amp;quot;sabotage&amp;quot; as a crime that injures the state, though I added the &amp;quot;sel&amp;quot; rafsi to make sure that no one thinks that the polity did the injuring.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i romai la deimid. cfari le ni&#039;onrai tarmi be loi nuzba&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Finally, the-one-called Day-Middle initiates the new-most form of News.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The Midday has established a totally new style in news:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu se tirna fa lo voksa .i se viska fa lo xance poi se desku tai loka ti&#039;e pacna zi&#039;epoi cpedu lenu sidju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Is-heard, a voice. Is-seen, a hand which [it?] is-shaken-by by-method a quality (I hear!) of hope and-which requests the-event-of-help.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;A voice was heard. A hand was seen floundering desperately, asking for help.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Nora suggests &amp;quot;slilu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;se desku&amp;quot; but I&#039;m not sure I agree. The &amp;quot;tai loka ti&#039;e pacna&amp;quot; meant nothing to me. (What did people who tried reading this guess it meant? This kind of feedback will be helpful to Nick, and indeed to all of us, in learning to think from the listener&#039;s point of view. I welcome such comments on any other places in the text where you read something different in the Lojban than Nick or I represented in our translations. Help us learn Lojban!) I would suggest using &amp;quot;mutnitcu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;much-needer&amp;quot;) instead of &amp;quot;pacna&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;desperate&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;seci&#039;o&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;tai&amp;quot;, and moving the attitudinal to show that it is the emotion expressed that is hearsay. &amp;quot;se desku seci&#039;o ti&#039;e loka mutnitcu&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;shaken-by [something] expressing-emotion (I hear!) much-need&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ibabo smaji .i ?ma pu fasnu .i mi ciksi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And-then silence. What occurred? I explain.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And then, silence. What was happening? [I answer my own question:]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo nixli pu sakli mo&#039;ine&#039;i lo skuro .ibazabo le nixli cu bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi farlu ri&#039;a lenu la paf. na di&#039;i tcidu la deimid. li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A girl slid moving-to-the-inside a groove. And a bit later the girl uttered &#039;I fall because the-event Pop not regularly reads the Day-middle&#039;&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A girl had slipped into a ditch. Later the girl said: &#039;I fell, because Dad doesn&#039;t read the Midday!&#039;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: An awesome effort, comparable to and perhaps as germinal as Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki&#039;s &amp;quot;The Open Window&amp;quot; (see JL10). Let&#039;s hear a round of applause for Nick, such that he might hear it Down Under.&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translation of &amp;quot;lei lojbo&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nora: (Completion!) I am able to go, justified by Hope taking care of Katrina.&lt;br /&gt;
Friend:   (I hear!) Hope speaks Esperanto and not Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
Nora: True. But Katrina, also, speaks Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
Friend:   Approval!&lt;br /&gt;
Hope: (in Esperanto) Takingly-pull (imperative).&lt;br /&gt;
Sam:  (to himself) &amp;quot;prEnutrEne&amp;quot; is-the same-as &amp;quot;prenu trene&amp;quot; (= &amp;quot;person-train&amp;quot;).  (Confusion!) I don&#039;t sense that represented by this [text].&lt;br /&gt;
Sam:  (aloud) The station is excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
Katrina:  (in Esperanto) Mystery&lt;br /&gt;
Sam:  (To himself): &amp;quot;mistEro&amp;quot; is-the same-as &amp;quot;mi stero&amp;quot; (= I am measured in steradians as (ellipsized amount).&lt;br /&gt;
Sam:  (thinking) Katrina expresses the symbol for a falsehood. This state-of-affairs is bad for Computers.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam:  (aloud) Users! (pejorative) (which sounds in Esperanto like &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
Hope: (in Esperanto) Less than what?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue. co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124089</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 14 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124089"/>
		<updated>2020-08-18T00:44:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 15 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273 &lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 14 - March 1991&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1991, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fund-Raising Drive Successful&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Regular In-Language Activities Started&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan Trademark Claim Cancelled&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 91 - 21-24 June 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot; (commonly called &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;), and informing the community about logical languages in general. For purposes of terminology, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; refers to a specific version of a logical language, the generic language and associated research project having been called &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; refer to both the generic language and to Lojban as a specific instance of that language. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Page count this issue: 96+8 enclosures ($10.40 North America, $12.48 elsewhere). Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 270. We now have about 600 people on our active mailing list, and 200 more awaiting textbook publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category. Balances reflect contributions received thru 13 March 1991. Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level R - This is a Review Copy for Publications&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 0 - le lojbo karni - $4 initially + $5/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 1 - Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $20 initially + $20/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 2 - Level 1 materials and baselined products - $25 initially + $25/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 3 - Level 2 materials and lesson materials - $50 initially + $40/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed of changes in your mailing address, and US subscribers are asked to provide ZIP+4 codes whenever you know them. (We now have to!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We skipped one quarterly issue cycle, but have now resumed our activities. This longer than average issue should help make up for the long wait.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue reports on the news of the last 6 months. In addition, we briefly survey the &#039;areas of interest&#039; that are listed on our registration form, so that you can see the scope of Lojban activities, and the potential in each area. We then move from this general discussion into the specific topic of Lojban and linguistics, with which the bulk of this issue deals. (Please pardon the occasional jargon therein - some contributors were writing for a different audience. We&#039;ve tried to elaborate on the jargon where it seemed necessary for understanding. The lead article on this topic is John Cowan&#039;s response to the 1969 critical review of Loglan written by linguist Dr. Arnold Zwicky; that review was never responded to by Dr. Brown, to the detriment of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s acceptance in the linguistics community. We also include edited transcripts of some computer network discussions regarding Lojban, Esperanto, and linguistics, and a brief description of Lojban written for linguists (as opposed to our brochure discussion for laymen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, we print some of your letters, with responses. Thanks to all of you for your continued interest and support. Included are final words for now on the subject of Esperanto and Lojban, including a more scholarly discussion on &#039;rule-counting&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier continues his regular &#039;column&#039; written directly in Lojban, and without translation. All subscribers should have all the materials needed to read this text. We also have other texts of various levels of difficulty, including a simple and familiar fairy tale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --3&lt;br /&gt;
  Using	the Language					       --5&lt;br /&gt;
  Language Development Activities			       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status, Prices, and Ordering			       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Publicity						      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News					      --13&lt;br /&gt;
  News From the	Institute - Trademark Cancellation	      --14&lt;br /&gt;
A Survey of Lojban Applications				      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review	of Loglan 1	      --21&lt;br /&gt;
A First	Cut at a Linguistic Description	of Lojban	      --29&lt;br /&gt;
Computer Network Discussions on	Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...)	  --30&lt;br /&gt;
   including Lojban gismu Etymologies			      --60&lt;br /&gt;
Proposed Lojban	Machine	Grammar	Baseline Changes	      --67&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow    --70&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska - some comparative artificial	linguistics, a story, and more	--76&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			      --88&lt;br /&gt;
The Recent Press Release			  --Back Page (96)&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - cmavo change list,	Lojban Grammar in E-BNF	form&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at: lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also join the Lojban news-group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your mailing address to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send traffic for the news-group to: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve mail facility. Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period: nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve or Usenet/Internet address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice- President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and Institute Loglan another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As most of you know, we sent out a fund-raising letter in November to all US, Canada, and Mexico subscribers, requesting that people contribute against their voluntary balance, or to donate extra money if their balance was positive. Our finances after JL13 had reached a crisis state, and action needed to be taken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to thank those of you who responded to our fund-raising letter. We received over 100 contributions in response to that letter in 6 weeks, more than twice the number of letters we usually receive in 3 months in response to a JL issue. Clearly, you prefer to be bugged about finances in a direct letter rather in the pages of this issue. $3500 in contributions was received in November and December, and small amounts continue to trickle in. Of that money, most was payments against voluntary balances, but over $1000 of it was in donations. (We have sent out summary notices for tax purposes acknowledging all donations received during 1990. If you believe that you made a donation and did not get a receipt, please let us know.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A secondary goal of the mailing was to identify people who were not reading our publications, and who wished to be dropped to a lower level of mailing, or who wished to be dropped entirely until at least after the textbook is published. Some 25 of the respondents requested such a drop in level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A tertiary goal of the mailing was to identify as many as possible incorrect addresses. Our normal 3rd class bulk mailing has a label requesting forwarding, and guaranteeing forwarding postage. However, such notices are often ignored by the post office, which treats bulk mailings as being of the lowest priority. Moral: if you want to keep getting material from us, make sure we get a change of address from you when you move - don&#039;t rely on the post office to tell us. To our first class mailing, we received over 35 such notices of incorrect addresses, many of which also had no for- warding notice on file with the post office.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All in all the letter was a big success, much better than we had hoped for in response to our plea, especially given a recession in the economy and the distractions of world events. We finished the year with over $4000 in the bank, and are no longer living from week to week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We aren&#039;t out of the woods yet, of course. While we have $4000 in the bank, voluntary balances total $4500. So we still technically owe more than we have. In addition, legal bills, which Jeff Prothero and Bob have committed to paying, constitute a recorded liability on our accounts of some $6000, making our net worth substantially negative. And we still need to accumulate $5000-$10000 for publication of the Lojban textbook. So don&#039;t hold back just because we&#039;re not on the point of bankruptcy anymore. Still, you can rest assured that we are in business for a while to come, and if you continue to respond when we are really in need, you can count on la lojbangirz. being around to support your Loglan/Lojban interests and efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have a head start on finances this year. Sylvia Rutiser has pledged a donation of at least $1000 in support of la lojbangirz. for the coming year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a summary of the la lojbangirz. financial report for 1990. This report has not yet been finalized and approved by the Board of Directors.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						 1990 Financial	Report&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
					      1990		  1989&lt;br /&gt;
Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contributions/Deferred Reimbursements	  $8523.37	      $8037.88&lt;br /&gt;
Donations				  $6164.90	      $7633.40&lt;br /&gt;
					  ________	      ________&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Net Income				 $14688.27	     $15671.28&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printing and Publications		  $3892.76	      $5643.92&lt;br /&gt;
Non-administrative Postage		  $1001.85	      $1903.91&lt;br /&gt;
Virginia Sales Tax Collections		    $34.02		$40.32&lt;br /&gt;
Royalties				    $60.00		$50.00&lt;br /&gt;
Office Supplies				   $434.86	       $494.13&lt;br /&gt;
Software				     $0.00	       $102.41&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest/LogFair				   $957.87	       $394.11&lt;br /&gt;
Advertising/Publicity/Conventions	    $39.70	      $1602.90&lt;br /&gt;
Telephone				  $1180.62	      $1239.53&lt;br /&gt;
Administrative Expenses	     $228.19		     $518.71&lt;br /&gt;
Legal Expenses		    $3082.00		    $4099.68&lt;br /&gt;
			    ________		    ________&lt;br /&gt;
			    $3310.19	  $3310.19  $4618.39  $4618.39&lt;br /&gt;
				 30%	  ________	 29%   _______&lt;br /&gt;
Net Expenses				 $11052.68	     $16089.62&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Net Gain/Loss				  $3635.59	      (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Assets&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Cash in bank account				 $4276.02&lt;br /&gt;
     Undeposited checks					  $109.49&lt;br /&gt;
     Estimated Value of	Inventory			  $703.30&lt;br /&gt;
							 ________&lt;br /&gt;
     Net Assets						 $5089.51&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Subscriber	Voluntary Balances Refundable&lt;br /&gt;
	  (See Attachment B)			       ($4550.36)&lt;br /&gt;
     Unpaid Legal Fees				       ($6360.00)&lt;br /&gt;
     VA	State Sales Tax	Collections			 ($12.83)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The most significant component of our huge drop in net worth is the unfunded legal liability. Jeff Prothero and Bob LeChevalier have committed to funding this liability in full. At our current expenditure rate, this will take about 2 years to pay off. With the February 1991 trademark ruling in our favor, additional legal fees are expected to be minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscription Accounts as of 1 January 1991 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 735 accounts. Of these, 544 were currently active (level 0 or above). Known readership is about 50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single sub- scriptions. (The number has grown by over 35 in the first 6 weeks of 1991.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 45-60% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Only 15% of the level 0 recipients have positive balances. This is not sufficient for long term financial security; donations do not make up the difference and no extra money is left over for non-subscription activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 14 February, there were 92 subscribers at level 3, 100 at level 2, 55 at level 1, 332 at level 0, and 191 at level B for a total of 770. About 20% of our subscribers are non-U.S., with about 1/2 of these in Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
gismu lists		 601				   &lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash	 133				   &lt;br /&gt;
flash cards		  30				   &lt;br /&gt;
Lessons	beyond Lesson 1	 127				   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
83 persons have donated a total of $13976.31 since incorporation (32/$7842.15 incorporation through end of 1989; 36/$5093.63 from before incorporation); 46 donors donated during 1990, including $1529 each from Bob &amp;amp; Nora and from Jeff Prothero that was applied to legal fees; others donated a net of $3106.94.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
157 persons have net positive voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
542 persons have net negative voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All others have 0 balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13 people have balances &amp;gt;$100, 40 have balances &amp;gt;$50, 89 have balances &amp;gt;$20. These are the people who are keeping us afloat. We need a much higher percentage of you in these categories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s proposed budget for 1991 (not yet approved by the Directors) presumes balance contributions of about $13400, legal donations of $6600 from Bob and Nora and Jeff Prothero, $4800 in donations from the rest of you, and expenses of around $25600, for a net loss of $729. To meet this budget, we need as many as possible of you to pay your share (as appropriate for your mailing level); otherwise we will repeat last year&#039;s financial crisis.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Using the Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
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While we have been laying low for 6 months, husbanding our money carefully, the language has been progressing in several directions. This section discusses progress in making Loglan/Lojban a living language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Conversation sessions - After several delays while we tried to find an optimal meeting day, Lojbanists in the Washington DC area have now started a weekly Lojban conversation/learning session. A group of 6 Lojbanists of varying skill levels has been meeting on Tuesday evenings at Bob and Nora&#039;s house to use the language. These 6 are Bob and Nora, Athelstan, Sylvia Rutiser, Darren Stalder, and Keith Lynch. Others have inquired and are expected to join within the next few weeks; if you are in or visiting the DC area and want to drop in, contact Bob at 703-385- 0273. You needn&#039;t be especially skilled in the language; none of the rest of us are, either. From the experience thus far, it is useful to know as much vocabulary as possible. You&#039;ll pick up the grammar easily (sentence complexity tends to be fairly simple), but a novice will spend most of the time hunting through words lists in order to follow what is being said. (On the other hand, Keith, who is a relative novice, says that he has learned some words quickly simply by looking them up over and over.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The emphasis during the sessions is on actual Lojban conversation, and no English is spoken for about 2 hours (8-10PM). Before and after the 2-hour sessions, there are discussions of translation, grammar questions, and other things better handled in English. We are hoping to eventually start regularly offering a mini-lesson for new Lojbanists during the hour before the Lojban session.&lt;br /&gt;
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Letter exchanges - Sylvia has been working on one other aspect of bringing Lojban to life. She has written to two Lojbanists who have written to us in Lojban, and is working on letters to a couple of others. (If you write a letter to us in Lojban, and include a translation so we can figure out any errors, you WILL get an answer, though we can&#039;t promise how quickly.) Michael Helsem has written a (complicated) letter on Lojban and poetry to Athelstan, as well as several to Bob, and Athelstan is working on an answer. Bob doesn&#039;t have time to respond to Lojban letters personally (except for really short ones), and passes them to Sylvia, who wants the practice. Of course, if she writes to you, please respond reasonably quickly so that she knows whether you understood any of her writing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Translations and writings - As shown in this issue, there have also been several people working on writings and translations of various length and complexity. In addition, Jamie Bechtel has translated an Ursula Leguin short story, which we plan to publish after getting a copy- right release from the author. Bob has also intermittently worked on a translation of the first chapter of Heinlein&#039;s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but this also needs a copyright release. He is also working on the initial story of Burton&#039;s Arabian Nights (the Scheherazade story), which is both not copyrighted and written in the style of the original Arabic, giving us a flavor of translation other than from English. (It is obviously preferable to translate things that are not copyrighted, or that the copyright has expired. Sherlock Holmes or Lewis Carroll, anyone?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Carter translation - One translation project that has been started, albeit slowly, is the attempt to update two stories by Jim Carter, originally written in 1984 in an earlier version of Loglan, to fit the current language. These are full-fledged short stories, not just sentences or paragraphs, and are quite a bit longer than even the Saki short story translation published in JL10. The first being worked on is called &#039;Akira&#039;, and is a science fiction story; the other is called &#039;The Welding Shop&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are trying to involve as many people as possible in this effort, each taking a sentence or a paragraph, or even a couple of tanru. Since the vocabulary has changed so considerably since 1984, and Jim Brown&#039;s versions of the language have had so many defective tanru, volunteers can work on problems as small as a single word. For example, in Sylvia Rutiser&#039;s translation of the first paragraph of the Akira story, printed later in this issue, she was quite dissatisfied with the tanru she devised for &#039;to fall by parachute&#039;. We welcome all suggestions for this concept, and any others in that paragraph. We also pose another paragraph for translation, which we ask all of you to work on, again even if only a word or two. Sylvia will compile the results for next issue. As more people become skilled in the language, we can pass out larger chunks of the text.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFair - We had a get-together at Bob and Nora&#039;s house, the last weekend in October. Turnout was small, and the discussion ranged over a wide area of topics. A smaller version of LogFest, we hope to hold future LogFairs at other locations besides the Washington DC area.&lt;br /&gt;
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Logfest 91 - The annual meeting of la lojbangirz., and the associated celebration of Lojban, will be held a week later this year than in previous years, on the weekend of 22-23 June 1991, at Bob and Nora&#039;s house in the suburban Washington DC area. (We officially start on Friday night and end on Monday morning, but those two days tend to be primarily social.) The schedule change allows us to miss several competing activities that have prevented people from coming in the past. If you are planning to come and do not know how to get here, contact us by letter or phone at the address or phone given for la lojbangirz. (day or evenings); we are on a major rapid transit line and thus easily accessible to all modes of transportation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The major design decisions about the language having been made before now, we are hoping to shift the emphasis of our gathering from language design to language use and application. There will thus be sessions on teaching and learning the language, including demonstrations of our teaching materials, Lojban conversation for novices as well as for more advanced students, group efforts at Lojban translation, etc. There also may be discussion of specific Lojban applications. There will be a limited amount of preplanned programming; call us the week before the gathering to find out details. On the other hand, most activities will be ad-hoc, determined by the interests of those present at any given time.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can come for one day or the entire weekend; families are welcome. Most attendees who spend the entire weekend, bring sleeping bags or borrow blankets; we have plenty of floor space. Especially if coming from out-of-town, we recommend letting us know in advance that you are coming, how many, and when you expect to arrive and leave, so we can plan logistics; drop-ins are of course welcome, though. Based on previous years expenses, we ask for a voluntary donation of around $30 per person for the whole weekend to cover food, beverages, etc. Many give more, a few come who cannot contribute. (Money contributed on this weekend, unless specifically noted, is considered a donation towards LogFest expenses, and does not apply to voluntary bal- ances.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope to see as many Lojbanists as possible at our activities this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Language Development Activities ===&lt;br /&gt;
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A lot of work has been done in the area of language development, much of it by John Cowan, who in only several months has become the principal expert on the formal grammar (thus relieving Bob of a major burden).&lt;br /&gt;
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Grammar baseline changes and BNF development - As reported in last issue, John aided in the final push for a grammar baseline, devising new designs for MEX (the grammar of mathematical expressions), the tense grammar, and the method of expressing letters and symbols. We did an awful lot of work in only a few weeks, and unfortunately, not all of it was perfect. John has found a few mistakes in further analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over the 6 months since the baseline, John has effectively done a complete analysis of the grammar, almost from scratch. He did this by developing an alternative way of describing the grammar, using a method called Extended Backus-Naur Form (E-BNF). Unlike the YACC form of the grammar (YACC is a tool for developing computer languages), published last issue, the E-BNF form is condensed and considerably easier to understand. John&#039;s BNF grammar, enclosed with this issue, requires only 4 pages of standard type. The E-BNF grammar is similar to the baseline machine grammar, including some minor proposals as described below.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with an E-BNF grammar is that it cannot be verified as unambiguous using YACC. This required a lot of checking and cross-checking. In the process of doing this, every rule of the grammar had to be examined. Some things showed up as problems:&lt;br /&gt;
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* errors made in the last minute push for a baseline, sometimes only typos, other times rules that were accidentally deleted;&lt;br /&gt;
* asymmetries between similar structures in the grammar, such as differing priority for logical connectives in compound bridi as compared to other logical connective structures;&lt;br /&gt;
* rules that were clumsily constructed, often as fossils of earlier versions of the grammar when they were necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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John also volunteered to work on a Lojban parser, and in thinking about the parser design, proposed some minor changes that would make the design easier.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of all of this analysis, John has proposed 19 changes to the baseline grammar, of which 3 were withdrawn after discussion. The 16 that remain may sound like a lot, but each is very minor, often affecting only 1 or 2 rules of the roughly 600 in the YACC grammar baseline. Even this overstates the effect on the average Lojban student&#039;s learning effort. Most of the changes are additions or enhancements to the language, and I doubt if any of the grammar changes proposed affect any text that has been written thus far in the language. Thus, the language can be considered quite stable, though clearly the grammar is not quite as mature as the gismu list, now baselined for 2 1/2 years.&lt;br /&gt;
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The changes are described along with their purpose and justification in an article below. The principal design group has looked over these changes and accepted them, but publication of the proposals is a necessary step for a baseline change. Thus you have an opportunity to comment or ask questions about these changes, prior to a formal approval decision, expected at or before LogFest. Anyone who has worked in depth with the grammar, and wants to see the specific rule changes proposed, may write or send a computer-mail message to us, and we&#039;ll be happy to provide it.&lt;br /&gt;
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There may be additional changes at this very low level up until the completion of the textbook and dictionary. These will be as a result of actual usage or problems discovered as a result of finally having a parser incorporating the complete set of rules. However, you shouldn&#039;t get the idea that the language is unstable because of these changes, requiring a significant effort at relearning, since they will almost certainly be changes in seldom-used features of the language. Ju&#039;i Lobypli will continue to publish such proposals as they are presented and preliminarily approved.&lt;br /&gt;
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cmavo list - As part of John Cowan&#039;s review, a couple of lexemes (word grammatical categories) have been eliminated, and the associated cmavo freed. (As a side note, we will be trying to phase out use of the word &#039;lexeme&#039; for these categories, in favor of the Lojban word &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot;, (from se cmavo) or cmavo word category. &#039;Lexeme&#039;, used by Jim Brown and adopted by everyone else, turns out to be an incorrect linguistic term for the concept - the appropriate term is really &#039;grameme&#039;. But since few people know these jargon terms anyway, we would rather use the non-jargon Lojban word.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of two place structure changes, we had to make some minor changes to associated gismu in selma&#039;o BAI, and to add one new cmavo to that selma&#039;o. A couple of additional words were independently proposed, for various reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since the cmavo list has NOT been baselined, the changes listed later in this issue are approved and now in force (although some of them are technically dependent on approval of the grammar baseline change). We provide the list on a separate page for people who wish to attach it to their cmavo lists. Alternatively (and probably preferably), you can manually update your copy of the cmavo lists to reflect these changes. No new publication of the cmavo list is expected prior to a preliminary baseline about 6 months before the dictionary is done. John Cowan is working on a catalog describing each selma&#039;o and its grammar, with examples of each usage; this will not be done for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lack of gismu-making - There were 20 gismu approved or proposed for making at last LogFest. We had commitments from several people to help with the source language look- up. Unfortunately, some of these people failed to come through. As a result, we have only partial input on Hindi source words and no input at all on Arabic sources. The other source language research has been ready for months. We are pursuing other alternate researchers, and ask any members of the community who know either language to volunteer your assistance either to suggest source words or check others work. (You should have a bilingual dictionary if you are not fluent in the language.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Because of this, the words have not been constructed, and we have downgraded the priority of producing a revised gismu list incorporating the new words and updated and clarified place structures for each word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Place structure review - In conjunction with the addition of words to the gismu list, we have been conducting a slow review of the place structure of every word in the gismu list. The review includes updates of Roget&#039;s Thesaurus categories for each word; Athelstan did a rough-cut at as- signing these categories while we were reviewing the list for baseline over 2 years ago. An effort is being made to ensure that place structures are consistent for words in the same Roget category.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can hardly imagine the difficulty of this review; it takes total mastery of the gismu list to do a comprehensive check, and only Bob has achieved that. Others are reviewing pieces of the list, and Bob is checking their suggestions. (All readers are encouraged to pose questions and suggestions about place structures, and these will be considered.) Of course Bob&#039;s higher priority is textbook writing, but the review must be completed before the textbook is done, since we don&#039;t want to have examples with inconsistent place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that place structures will be a long-evolving part of the language, and will not even be considered baselined at dictionary publication (though publication of a dictionary will inherently make changes much more difficult). This is because the place structures implicitly contain the meaning of the words, meanings that will never be static, and cannot truly be defined until there are significant numbers of language users.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, none of us who are speaking, writing, or translating in Lojban have been significantly hindered by nebulous place structures. We make the best guess we can, and use paraphrases if a listener doesn&#039;t understand, thus bypassing any confusion.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, we have demonstrated what we have often claimed, YOU DO NOT NEED TO MEMORIZE THE PLACE STRUCTURES TO USE LOJBAN. As you use the language, you will master them practically by osmosis, making mistakes and then learning from them. But mistakes are useful, too; they help us define the weak points in the place structures, and in some cases indicate that normal usage of a word differs from the place structure that we devised.&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu making errors of the past - As a side project, late at night or when he can&#039;t concentrate (seemingly much too often it seems), Bob has been going back through the computer outputs that generated the gismu 3 years ago, an extracting the scores and etymologies that led to the current word being chosen. The project is roughly half done.&lt;br /&gt;
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Along the way, unfortunate discoveries have occurred. In about 5% of the words, some type of manual error was made in the rush to compile the list. In half of these or so, the error is insignificant: an erroneous score or cross- reference error. In the rest, often due to Bob&#039;s sloppy handwriting or typos, the word recorded for a concept was not the highest scoring one. In most cases, the word actually selected differs by only one character from what it should be, but given the nature of the scoring algorithm, this sometimes leads to a significantly lower recognition score.&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, we screwed up sometimes. The result is not a severe problem, and changing the words wasn&#039;t even considered - the actual etymologies of individual words is simply not that important to any of Loglan&#039;s goals. The only requirement is for neutrality. Since the errors are small in number and fairly random, the only effect is a trivial increase in learning difficulty. And this increase is real only if the recognition scores used to decide on the words actually do correlate with learnability of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
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A more systematic error was found in our Lojban transcription of Russian words. Though the check has only been cursory, it appears that in several cases, we made mistakes in Lojbanizing the Russian vowels, which frequently change in sound depending on the declension, and on the syllable stress. As a result, the Russian con- tribution to some words will be incorrect, and learning for Russian students of Lojban presumably slightly more difficult. Again, though, the effect is not expected to be significant, and we have data that will allow us to accurately measure the effect, if any of this systematic error. (Lojbanization of Russian words inherently has systematic errors due to declensions that shift and sometimes omit sounds.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Once the computer lists have been verified, we will make the etymologies available in hard copy or electronic form. Data is being stored in Lojbanized phonetic spelling. We do not plan in the short term to publish a list showing the actual source words, primarily because we would need special text fonts and alphabets on our computers. However, a sample of the intermediate work appears in a later article this issue. This effort is a low priority one, though how much time we spend on it will partly depend on how much interest is shown by you readers.&lt;br /&gt;
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Computer Network Discussions - There have been numerous discussions of Lojban&#039;s design on the lojban-list computer mailing network, which now has over 100 readers. These are generally highly specialized discussions, and often rather long-winded, so we cannot even hope to summarize them here. Two major topics in the last couple of months have been the expression of intervals, the possible need for special tenses to describe relativistic situations, and the desire by some readers for a formal theory describing the seman- tics of the language. Discussions on these topics continue, and we are archiving everything that is said. If you have particular interest in one of these topics, let us know, and we may discuss it in more detail, or offer a special-order publication consisting of transcripts of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products Status, Prices, and Ordering ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no new products to announce this issue, although significant progress was made on several that will hopefully come to fruition within the next several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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A reminder that our pricing policy includes a 20% discount for a prepaid order over $20 (prepaid = positive balance exceeding the price at the time of shipment). There is a 20% surcharge for non-North-American orders; the 20% discount on large prepaid orders will cancel the overseas surcharge. The overseas surcharge may have to rise due to increased postal fees, but not until at least next issue. Virginia orders should add 4.5% sales tax. Note also that for software, there is no surcharge for MS- DOS 3 1/2&amp;quot; diskettes, but you must specify in your order if you want them.&lt;br /&gt;
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We cannot promise to fill an order unless it is prepaid; our finances remain too thin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook - One effort that has not made much progress has been the Lojban textbook. About 45 pages were done by LogFair in late October, but almost no work has been done since then. There are a lot of reasons for this, but in the final analysis Bob simply hasn&#039;t managed to treat this effort as the highest priority, as he and everyone else want. Too many short-term distractions and emergencies. If blame must be placed, most of us have some part in the delay; the final responsibility is, however, Bob&#039;s. Hopefully, things are improving in this regard.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFlash - The news on LogFlash is a good as the news on the textbook is bad. A version of LogFlash capable of handling the August cmavo list turned out to be almost trivial to produce. (This version is currently called LogFlash 3, but the set may be renumbered before publication). Bob has gone through all of the words using this program and is working in Maintenance mode at mastering the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile Nora has been working on the enhanced revision to LogFlash, which will handle the updated gismu list (with 100 character definitions instead of 40 character ones), and add a wide variety of new features, described in previ- ous issues. The program will also provide the capability to log data needed for research into the language learning process, including a test of Jim Brown&#039;s recognition score algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora&#039;s update is mostly complete, and the program is being tested by a couple of Lojban students, most notably Sylvia Rutiser, who has gone through the gismu list in only a few weeks and is working on her second pass.&lt;br /&gt;
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The changes to support cmavo list learning with the new version are just as easy as for the old version, and Sylvia is also nearly through her first pass on the cmavo using this program. The results of using LogFlash have proven awesome when we sit down on Tuesday evenings to speak in the language. Bob and Sylvia only rarely need to look at a word list, while those who haven&#039;t studied the words spend a lot of time paging through the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope to have gismu list and cmavo list versions of LogFlash available by LogFest in June, or perhaps the next Ju&#039;i Lobypli issue thereafter. A rafsi list version will probably wait an additional few months; we have yet to receive any reports that anyone besides Bob and Nora have started studying the rafsi using the existing LogFlash 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of these updates are for PC-compatible MS-DOS machines. Dave Cortesi is working on an update to his Hypercard program equivalent for the MacIntosh; we have had no discussions with Richard Kennaway regarding an update to his MacIntosh version, since the Hypercard version, while a bit slower in execution speed, uses the Mac voice synthesizer function to provide spoken Lojban along with the flash cards. We expect Dave&#039;s program to be available at approximately the same time as the PC LogFlash version.&lt;br /&gt;
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Efforts to produce a UNIX C version of LogFlash appear to have stalled out, and given the closeness of the new PC version will likely be delayed until after it is complete. We get lots of volunteers to make this conversion (for UNIX and other machines), but few if any have ever produced anything. The new program is over 4000 lines of code and is non-trivial to convert. We are thus not planning to distribute the LogFlash source. Conversion volunteers should know both Turbo-Pascal and C and the problems in converting from the former to the latter. There is a lot of input/output processing, and the last (and most successful) conversion effort stalled out on con- verting this processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Parser - As noted above, John Cowan has started working on a Lojban parser which will reflect the baseline grammar. This much-awaited software will finally allow us to do the proper test of the grammar that is needed, as well as provide an excellent teaching tool to students of the lan- guage with appropriate computers. John expects to have the parser available for testing by LogFest in June. Priority for test copies will be for people with highly positive balances and those who have actually been writing in the language. General distribution will of course depend on how testing goes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Software - The random sentence generator update has been held up pending John Cowan&#039;s grammar change proposals, discussed elsewhere in this issue. David Bowen reports a simple equivalent program using the UNIX-based AWK language; write to us for details if interested. There have been no changes to the lujvo-making program, which may be integrated with the future version of LogFlash 2 (rafsi- teaching).&lt;br /&gt;
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Software Pricing - Software is the only product la lojbangirz. produces right now that we make any significant profit on. Thus, we need significant sales of these items to help cover all the people who aren&#039;t paying for our pro- ducts. Indeed, our financial troubles last year were no doubt in part due to very low software sales and our lack of new products in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
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Because of our financial situation, we cannot distribute our software for free. If we get more of you to pay for the printed matter, we can reconsider this, but no change is likely until well after textbook publication. We may continue to offer the old software more liberally, recognizing that it will be obsolete and much inferior to the new version. This will allow us to support those who can&#039;t afford to pay but want to learn the language, while providing significant value to our paying customers. Exceptions, if any, will be for people who perform volunteer efforts valuable enough that someone else donates money to cover the cost of their copy, or who demonstrate by trying to use the language that our support of their use of LogFlash will bring results.&lt;br /&gt;
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When the new versions of the program come out, there will be a substantial discount (at least 50%) for upgrades from people who have the program and a positive balance. People who have contributed money but do not have a positive bal- ance may receive a lesser discount. As always, prepaid orders over $20 will gain a 20% discount.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments on this policy are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
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(Note that old versions of LogFlash are still available as Shareware on the Amrad BBS - see the introductory brochure for the telephone number. We would of course prefer that you register and pay for this software, getting the latest version, but have no complaint if those who cannot pay obtain the program in this way. We will pro- bably continue to offer a less-advanced Shareware version of LogFlash for the indefinite future, since the principle of mass distribution of language information is a fundamental one for la lojbangirz.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Postal Rates - The recent increase in US Postal Rates was between 15 and 20%. This amounts to 1-2 cents/page added to our production costs. This renders our temporary price increase of last summer necessarily permanent - it is not yet clear whether we are selling materials for more than we pay for them. If not, you can expect a price rise next issue, probably to 12 cents/page US/Canada and 15 cents/page overseas; we&#039;ll continue to absorb the slight difference between US and Canadian postage costs.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are considering going to second-class mailing for Ju&#039;i Lobypli and/or le lojbo karni, though possibly not for a few months. For a relatively small cost difference, we would get better speed of delivery and more assurance that you will actually get the issue. Mailing in the same class as junk mail is risky.&lt;br /&gt;
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One requirement of second-class mailing is demonstration that most of our readership actually wants to receive the publication. The best way to prove this is with paid subscriptions, with explicit letters also valuable. Thus it is important that we hear from you regularly, preferably with money; at least once per year is very desirable.&lt;br /&gt;
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9-digit Zip - The new rates also come with new rules, though we aren&#039;t yet certain just what these rules are. It is possible that we will need to use Zip+4 9-digit codes on our US mailings to get optimal postage rates, and possibly even to get assured delivery. Thus, whenever you send us a change of address, please tell us the Zip+4 number as soon as you know it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rhyming Dictionaries - Michael Helsem announces availability of Lojban gismu rhyming dictionaries for prospective poets. Price $5 ea. Specify normal or half- rhyme versions. Send to Michael Helsem, 1031 DeWitt Circle Dallas TX 75224.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Logo - Surprisingly to me at least, there was a clear winner in the logo balloting from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #13. The selected logo was supposed to be on this issue; maybe next time. The winner, designed by Guy Garnett, received a large majority of positive votes among the 35-40 ballots received before the October deadline, and was first choice on many of them. In fact, only 5 ballots were marked as disliking the selection. Of these 5, 3 were in favor of the 2nd place finisher (a distant 2nd, but with far more &#039;likes&#039; than &#039;dislikes&#039;). This 2nd place logo, the in- tersecting planes design by Jamie Bechtel, apparently suffered some vote loss from being hand-drawn compared to Guy&#039;s polished computer-generated images. (Almost all negative votes on this design also voted against all other hand-drawn designs.) As a result, we intend to try this design on some publications as well, after computerizing it, and see what people think. Thus we have two logos, which were opposed by only 2 people among the voters.&lt;br /&gt;
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A couple of people sent in new designs after the ballot was produced, and I unfortunately missed one by Kerry Pearson in preparing the ballot. But we needed to have a final decision, and these will be the logos for at least the next few years.&lt;br /&gt;
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A few people voted for none of the selections, indicating a misunderstanding of the purpose of the logo &#039;contest&#039;. These people identified &amp;quot;logos&amp;quot; with commercialism, and wanted us to have a less commercial image. A couple suggested that instead we devise a &amp;quot;logo&amp;quot; that was more of a slogan, perhaps graphically displayed. This isn&#039;t practical for a few reasons:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* the logo is intended to be a symbol and graphic images make better symbols than text, however it is displayed. &amp;quot;Logo&amp;quot; is a shortening of &amp;quot;logograph&amp;quot;, which more clearly indicates its purpose;&lt;br /&gt;
* among other places, the logo will probably be used on the textbook, where there will already be plenty of text (the title, subtitle, and the &#039;blurb on the back&#039;). The purpose of the logo is to leave a strong image that stands out against all that writing;&lt;br /&gt;
* there is a commercial purpose to the logo. It is a symbol for la lojbangirz. as well as, and possibly more than, for the language (this unfortunately may not have been in the minds of the designers and voters, but, oh well). While we are a non-profit organization, we must operate as a business, sending out correspondence, fund- raising letters, etc. The logo, printed by computer with our letterhead, will enhance the visual appearance of our business correspondence, calling attention to our letter. (At least this is how the theory goes.)&lt;br /&gt;
* a slogan in any language other than Lojban (such as English) would suggest a bias toward that language, and we are fighting hard to avoid such biases. If the text were in Lojban, non-Lojbanists (and some inactive supporters) wouldn&#039;t know what it means, making it a less meaningful symbol than the words might intend;&lt;br /&gt;
* we already have a Lojban slogan of a sort. Claude Van Horne coined &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot; a couple of years ago, and we have produced and distributed calligraphic buttons with that slogan as well as used it on many of our publications. We are of course interested in more Lojban slogans and aphorisms, but this requires you to make them up, and the issue is any case separate from the logo issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Electronic Distribution - We have had a committee non- working on a policy for electronic distribution of our materials since LogFest. For various reasons, the committee pretty much fell apart within a couple of weeks, and efforts to get the effort going again have so far been to no avail. Athelstan did write up his mini-lesson, which will be a centerpiece of the electronic material to be distributed; we hope this will be finalized for publication with JL15. Thereafter, all non-paying people above level 0 will have to demonstrate their interest by attempting to complete the exercises in the mini-lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There has been considerable debate about the extent of things to be distributed. Ju&#039;i Lobypli issues and the textbook are nearly impossible to put on-line, even with a file server, because so much of the text is formatted and relies on greater than 80-column lines. This issue, for example, is over 400K bytes of data. We are also reluctant to post non-baselined language description materials since we have no way to ensure that people eventually get updates when the baseline occurs. Word lists, the machine grammar, the brochure, and Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson are likely to be available initially. I won&#039;t promise a date for an electronic package because it is pretty much out of my hands as long as the committee exists; it is likely that the package will be available after LogFest in late June.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Computer Network - With help from John Cowan and Keith Lynch and Eric Raymond (who supports lojban-list and John&#039;s and Bob&#039;s computer accounts), Lojban has been highly visible on the UNIX-oriented Usenet/Internet computer network, providing us with worldwide communications with our supporters, and highly successful recruiting. We have been especially visible in an electronic news/discussion group called &amp;quot;sci.lang&amp;quot;, which is a major focus for linguistics professionals, researchers, and students, worldwide. In particular, Lojban has come up as the principal topic of discussion during two periods of several weeks during the last 6 months. (Discussions in these groups tend to flow from topic to topic forming a highly intertwined set of &#039;threads of discussion&#039;, which eventually fade out as people turn to new topics that have caught their attention. Thus, Lojban has been mentioned several times in connection with several topics, but the &#039;thread&#039; caught people&#039;s attention twice in particular.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first instance, Lojban (and Loglan in general) came up as a result of a discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Hy- pothesis. John Cowan stepped into the discussion, and then Bob &#039;weighed in&#039; in response to some fairly critical challenges from linguists. Much to our pleasure, Lojban withstood this first challenge from the linguistic academic community, gaining respect from several people and a will- ingness on their part to see how the project develops scientifically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the disastrous history of Loglan&#039;s relationship with the academic community, this was welcome indeed. While attracting interest from several linguistic academics in the 1960&#039;s, the first publication of Loglan 1 drew a critical review from Professor Arnold Zwicky, in a 1969 is- sue of Language, one of the foremost linguistics journals. While this review was a friendly, constructive critique (this intent was confirmed in a recent letter exchange between Bob and Dr. Zwicky, now a leader in the field of language typology), Dr. Brown apparently took its challenges as highly negative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For whatever reason, the review went unanswered, and Loglan has suffered for 20 years as a result. The Institute&#039;s attempts to get funding from the National Science Foundation were rejected, with several peer reviewers citing the unanswered critique. Dr. Brown eventually gave up on the academic community and tried to &amp;quot;go commercial&amp;quot;, a disaster that led in turn to the financial and political quagmire that nearly killed Loglan in the 1980&#039;s before Bob and others started the Lojban effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now we&#039;ve again caught the interest of the academic community, and are taking measures to ensure that Loglan/Lojban is taken seriously and treated with respect. This first sci.lang discussion was the critical milestone. In the special section on Lojban and Linguistics below, John Cowan has done a superb effort at editing and condensing the non-linear discussion into what seems like a lively conversation, loaded with important ideas and detailed examples of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John then followed up this discussion by re-examining the old Zwicky review. While it is far too late to directly answer the critique in Language, John drafted a response to the key challenges posed by Zwicky, demonstrating that the Lojban design fully meets Zwicky&#039;s challenge. This response is also printed in the special section below, and will shortly be posted to sci.lang.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second discussion stemmed from a comparative discussion of artificial languages, concentrating on Esperanto and Ido. Nick Nicholas, an Australian Esperantist, posted a Suzanne Vega song translated into several artificial languages (later added to by Ivan Derzhanski), whereupon Bob joined in with a Lojban version. These translations, and some associated discussion, appear in le lojbo se ciska in this issue. A few of the Lojban- related postings are also included, with more planned for next issue (since the discussion continues).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We received several compliments for our direct support of discussions on the network. Loglan continues its trend as being the first &#039;successful&#039; artificial language to have its development process openly observed and participated in by the academic community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both network discussions were quite productive in terms of recruiting - we&#039;ve added over 50 people as a result. Nick (a Greek native) and Ivan (a Bulgarian native) have both expressed interest in learning Lojban; Nick has expressed especial interest in joining our growing group of Lojban poets.&lt;br /&gt;
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ApaLingua, Tand and Factsheet Five - Lojban continues to appear on occasion in the amateur and alternative press. Mike Gunderloy reviews each of our issues in Factsheet Five, and a recent issue (incidentally the first one to mention Institute publications) gave us our largest crop of new Lojbanists yet, over a dozen. This, coupled with the sci.lang discussions and our continuing word-of-mouth spread led to almost 1 new person per day throughout the first two months of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An amateur publication on linguistics, a sort of printed sci.lang, has been started, and several Lojbanists are among the participants. ApaLingua is published bi-monthly, and consists of several pages written and submitted by each of the subscribers. Like the computer networks, each per- son poses new topics for discussion and responds to the writings of others. There were over 30 contributors at the time of the sample issue Bob received in November, and it was clear that the group would be expanding rapidly. la lojbangirz. intends to participate in ApaLingua, but at this point Bob has had too many irons in the fire, and has committed to making substantial progress on the textbook before adding this one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tand, another amateur publication has had discussions of Lojban for the last 3 issues. The 3rd issue, appearing after JL13, included a lot of reader feedback, some positive and more negative. We&#039;ve pretty much decided to see where these discussions lead before responding further. Tand comes out infrequently, and the type of comments being raised are best answered by people looking at our publications to avoid our repeating (to editor Mark Manning&#039;s great distaste) large quantities of the same type of thing that appears here in JL.&lt;br /&gt;
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Evecon and Arisia - la lojbangirz. participated in this year&#039;s edition of Evecon, the largest science fiction convention here in the Washington DC area. Bob, Nora, and Athelstan gave several talks during the New Years weekend, and staffed a booth that provided information about Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, Coranth D&#039;Gryphon attended Arisia, a February Boston area science fiction convention. Several new people signed up, making it the most successful convention recruiting effort yet among those not attended by Bob and Nora. Coranth is planning to follow this effort up with a class this spring taught through an MIT extension program.&lt;br /&gt;
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GURT - Bob and Athelstan are planning to attend the Georgetown University Round Table of Linguistics, an annual event of significant stature in the linguistics community. A focus of this year&#039;s meetings, the first week of April, is on language acquisition and education. We are planning to use these meetings to expand our contacts with members of the linguistic community, and move towards an examination by that community of the potential value for Lojban in linguistic research and language education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Trip: Will This One Happen? - Bob and Nora have been promising themselves a trip to California for two years now (Bob grew up in the San Francisco area), but it always seemed to be another 2 months away; there always seemed to be another deadline. THIS time we&#039;re a bit more optimistic, and are planning a late April trip to the Bay Area. We&#039;ll probably be able to come for a week and associated weekends. This one should really come off, since Nora&#039;s boss is encouraging her to take an April vacation. Occasional considerations of a side trip to Los Angeles and San Diego are being set aside; too many trips have been cancelled because of excess ambition (and Nora needs a REAL vacation). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to give several talks on Lojban while there, both to existing Lojbanists and to potential recruits. We want to meet as many of you as possible, so try to set aside a little time for us. We badly need volunteers to help us organize these meetings, and provide or locate places we can get together. Call Bob immediately - (703) 385-0273 - if you can help, given the short time frame. We will try to put out a notice by mail a week or two ahead of time indicating our itinerary. Since Bob has sisters in the Santa Cruz and mid-Peninsula areas, and close friends in Berkeley, these are definite stops for at least a night or two each.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan Finally Makes a Trip - After two trips in two years being cancelled at the last minute, Athelstan says he will not promise trips in advance again. As a result (so he suspects), things finally started going right. After over a year and a half with one car problem after another, he got his car mobile enough to make it out of the DC area. Indeed, he made it all the way to Salt Lake City, where he stayed a couple weeks with Lojbanist Diane Lehmann and got her started learning the language. (He then rebuilt his car as he drove home, having packed a spare part for everything and finding he needed most of those spares. ba&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
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Press Release - In February, following the legal victory discussed under Institute News below, la lojbangirz. put out its first press release. This news release, a copy of which appears after this news section, went to over 300 members of the business and scientific press. The response thus far has been small, but with the world situation as lively as it has been, we wouldn&#039;t expect to be an immediate priority. Also, since each response is likely to turn into a news or magazine story, a few responses will go a long way. &lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Canadian checks OK - After having three of them make it through our bank with no problem and no service charge, I am happy to tell our Canadian friends that we can accept checks in Canadian currency if it is difficult or expensive to get US currency checks. We deposit the check, and the bank then adjusts the deposit for the exchange rate about a week later, which seems to be within a few cents of the standard rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that for other countries, we can accept a check on your non-US bank in your currency, but there is a service charge of US$3.50. We can also accept Master Card and Visa balance contributions with a service charge of 6%. &lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan&#039;s European trip aborted - In JL13, we reported that there were last minute problems threatening to cancel Athelstan&#039;s planned trip to the Netherlands World Science Fiction convention, and then around several countries of Europe. The problems continued to grow, and Athelstan&#039;s then-dead car made it impossible for him to get around and solve them. So he didn&#039;t go. We are still hoping to have some Lojbanist make it to Europe in the next couple of years, but I think we&#039;re going to avoid promises until there is something definite. &lt;br /&gt;
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Non-North American Lojbanists and the Fund-raising Drive - The November fund raising letter did not go to our overseas friends. Except for US and Canada subscribers, the postage cost was too high for the potential gain. Instead, we are sending those people who were on the list in November a somewhat modified form of the letter, representing the slightly different circumstances and our more liberal policy in support of non-North American Lojbanists. Note that balances reflected in the letters do not include the price of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Simply put, for those JL subscribers with balances (in November when the letters were prepared) less than US$-30 who have never responded, we must hear from you by the next issue of JL in early May, or you will be dropped to level &#039;0&#039;. If you have responded, but not in the past year, we still want to hear from you, but can allow you support down to US$-50 before taking action to cut our losses. If your balance is below US$-50, we need to hear from you by the next JL issue, at minimum, to keep sending at this level.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideally, as many as possible will send some money, even if not enough to fully cover our costs. We&#039;re doing our best to subsidize non-US Lojbanists, but we need your help. Please respond.&lt;br /&gt;
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Non-English Materials - We now have French, Italian, and Esperanto translations of the &amp;quot;What is Lojban? la lojban. mo&amp;quot; brochure. The latter two are still only in the roughest of drafts, not even correctly typed in. We need volunteers to work with our translations, to polish them, to put them into computerized formats, and to add to the list of languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Trademark - The most significant news regarding The Loglan Institute, Inc. is that la lojbangirz. has won its challenge of TLI&#039;s trademark registration of the name &#039;Loglan&#039;. The decision was rendered in &#039;summary judgement&#039;; the issues were sufficiently clear-cut that there was no need for a trial. Following are excerpts from the decision. la lojbangirz. is &#039;Petitioner&#039; and The In- stitute is &#039;Respondent&#039;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The facts of record clearly establish petitioner&#039;s genuine interest in the subject matter of the proceeding and support a reasonable belief that petitioner will be damaged by the continued existence of the registration sought to be cancelled...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;...both respondent and petitioner have filed documents evidencing use of the term LOGLAN as the generic name or the common descriptive name of a language developed by Dr. James Cooke Brown. Even Dr. Brown uses the term as the name of the language... There is apparently a community of persons interested in the development of the language who have conducted very active communications with one another and without exception they use the term Loglan to refer to the language, not as a trademark for the grammars and dictionaries which contain the words that make up, and information pertaining to, the construction of the language. ... In addition to the foregoing, we note that the Acronyms, Initialisms &amp;amp; Abbreviations Dictionary Ninth Edition, 1985-1986, lists the term, &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; and defines it as &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; ...&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... the evidence indicates that it was not until 1985 that respondent first expressed the view that LOGLAN was its trademark. ... Prior to that time, the term was used by Dr. Brown, respondent and others simply as the designation for the developing language, although it is reasonable to conclude that Dr. Brown and the Institute may have mistakenly believed that such use by others was with recognition of their purported proprietary rights.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;In view of the foregoing, it is our opinion that LOGLAN, being a generic term, does not function as a trademark for respondent&#039;s goods.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... petitioner&#039;s motion for summary judgement ... is granted as to the issue of the generic nature of the term LOGLAN. The petition for cancellation is granted and the registration will be cancelled in due course.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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We had filed on several other grounds, including fraudulent filing of the application for the trademark due to the several false statements therein and abandonment through failure to continually use the term as a trademark. The fraud claim was denied because we did not prove &amp;quot;fraud- ulent misconduct accompanied by some element of willfulness or bad faith&amp;quot;. The abandonment claim was declared moot since the term wasn&#039;t a valid trademark in the first place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lest there be any doubt, I/we have nothing personal against Dr. Brown. Indeed, we honor his genius in creating the language. We believe his policies have been mistaken and have as a result stultified the progress of the language, but this assertion didn&#039;t need a legal battle to be resolved. One only needs to observe the astounding relative success la lojbangirz. has had in promoting Loj- ban, which IS Loglan in every sense of the word, through our more liberal policies. (During the last three years, we have outgrown the Institute by a large measure in spite of the republication of Loglan 1 by TLI and several thousand dollars in advertising by TLI.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Institute can appeal the trademark decision, but such appeals historically have been considered frivolous, unless buoyed by significant new evidence. Since this decision was based on a matter of law, and sufficient facts to sup- port the decision were provided by The Institute on its own, possible bases for appeal are minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
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We thus consider the legal cloud on the language to be lifted. Threats of legal action by The Institute, originally against Bob and Jeff Prothero (before la lojbangirz. was incorporated), have been retracted or rendered invalid through this decision. People can use the name Loglan public-ally without fear of legal challenge; our success should cause TLI to have second thoughts before engaging in further legal harassment. The legal action was expensive (we intend NOT to pursue TLI for reimbursement of legal expenses, in the interest of ending the dispute), and it certainly has distracted Bob and others from more useful endeavors on behalf of the language (Bob may have put as much as 6 man-months into legal-related research that could have gone into textbook writing).&lt;br /&gt;
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The battle is over. It is time to move ahead, and to settle the war. Bob has written to Dr. Brown, proposing a settlement between our two efforts that would result in unity of the Loglan Project behind a Lojban recognized by Brown as a legitimate version of Loglan. The offer includes generous incentives towards unity that will en- hance Dr. Brown&#039;s influence and stature in the community, and aid TLI in performing the Loglan research for which it was originally founded. la lojbangirz. would be the principal interface with the community and the world, working to gain acceptance and support for the language. If accepted, Loglan would become the first major artificial language project to mend a split, giving us added credibility in convincing the world of Loglan&#039;s value. In addition, our combined resources would get more and better quality work accomplished in less time.&lt;br /&gt;
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We ask readers who have also supported The Institute to write to Dr. Brown and encourage him to move towards such a settlement.&lt;br /&gt;
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JCB&#039;s finances, TLI Fund-Raiser Fails - As a footnote to the legal decision, Dr. Brown reported in his latest Lognet newsletter that he suffered a serious personal financial setback. As a result, he no longer can financially support The Institute. Indeed, he had to take a large portion of the Institute&#039;s recent income to pay himself back in preference to using that money to further promote his version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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This setback was coupled with a fund raising drive that coincidentally occurred at about the same time as our own. Dr. Brown sought donations sufficient to pay for another Scientific American advertisement, a cost of $3500. Apparently, less than half that amount was raised. This is probably a good thing for TLI, since Dr. Brown projected a gain of perhaps 150 new people from this advertising, an expense of over $20 per person - as much as the price of the book he is selling.&lt;br /&gt;
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We note that several of the large donors Dr. Brown listed contributed comparable amounts in our own fund raising drive. We did raise the $3500 and more in our effort, and are putting it towards producing more and better information about the language. Bob and Nora, and other major contributors, have made donations rather than loans. As a result, la lojbangirz. is relatively debt-free (we technically owe our subscribers their balances, and Bob, Nora, and Jeff Prothero have pledged donations against the legal debt). Dr. Brown meanwhile claims an enormous financial debt from the Institute (over $35,000 prior to la lojbangirz.&#039;s founding).&lt;br /&gt;
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TL to be revived? - The Institute has been trying to improve on its accomplishments. Several months ago, it announced that The Loglanist, its old journal somewhat comparable to Ju&#039;i Lobypli, was going to be revived under a new name starting in December 1990. This didn&#039;t happen. A specific editor was named in the first 1991 LogNet, but we have no further word on what is planned.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Major Revision to Institute Loglan? - We have mentioned previously (and lambasted) a proposal to devise a series of &#039;declensions&#039; for each gismu in Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Arguments in favor and opposing this revision have appeared in each issue of Lognet for the past year, with Dr. Brown sounding alternatively supportive and skeptical of the proposal; Bob McIvor, who proposed it, is the other member of &#039;The Loglan Academy&#039; that approves changes to Institute Loglan. Dr. Brown has indicated that a decision is expected this spring.&lt;br /&gt;
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Interestingly, Dr. Brown claims that the Loglan engineering effort is complete, even while contemplating such major changes as this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Shareware? - The last issue of TLI&#039;s Lognet surprised Bob with a minor note in response to a letter. The letter suggested that TLI software be distributed as &#039;Shareware&#039;, and Dr. Brown indicated that the idea would be considered. Bob&#039;s and Nora&#039;s intention to distribute LogFlash as Share- ware triggered the intellectual property disputes that caused the current rift. While Shareware software can technically preserve copyrights, it causes those copyrights to be of minimal financial value, since Shareware is freely copyable. Is The Institute about to make a landmark change in its policy? We&#039;ll be watching.&lt;br /&gt;
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== A Survey of Lojban Applications ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Last issue, we gave a rather thorough progress report on the language development progress, and we provide updates on that status each issue. A couple of people have pointed out that we haven&#039;t provided comparable information on other aspects of the language - how Loglan/Lojban will be used. On our registration forms, we ask you to indicate one or more of several reasons for your interest in the language, and we have been remiss in not addressing those areas directly in these pages.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a reason for this, of course. Nearly all of the productive work being done is going towards the language development process. That phase is wrapping up, and people are slowly starting to use the language. As a result we can expect the other areas of interest to flower as more people learn the language. Meanwhile, we try to focus on the other areas one at a time, to keep people thinking about them.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is probably all that can really be done at this point. Until we have a community of fluent speakers, Lojban will lack credibility among professionals in several of the interest areas. Moreover, we will have trouble raising funds through grants and contracts that would greatly advance our capabilities in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, it is worthwhile to have a brief review of each area. Following is a summary, from Bob&#039;s perspective, of each area:&lt;br /&gt;
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The Language Development Process - Of course, we have reported on specific achievements in the language development as they have occurred. In JL13, we surveyed where the language development process stood with regard to individual areas of the design. There is a broader picture, though, that might be missed in looking too closely.&lt;br /&gt;
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Loglan has been the most public language development project in terms of public knowledge of the decisions being made and input into the decision-making itself. Indeed, it was this public involvement that led to the big political squabbles of the last decade. People who have been involved in the language development feel that the language is theirs.&lt;br /&gt;
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A side-effect of such a political dispute has been quite positive; we have pretty much isolated the politics of the &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; from the language development process itself. The community understands that it is listened to by those who make day-to-day design decisions. This has allowed the process to proceed by consensus; there have been few non- unanimous decisions during the development process.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideas and proposals are talked out thoroughly if proposed. A recent discussion of relativistic tenses on the computer mailing list overflowed every reader&#039;s mailbox with dozens of pages of discussion. The discussion continues, and is far from a consensus; no change is being made. Meanwhile, the several dozen minor cmavo changes and grammar changes have so far attracted minimal comment (and they can hardly be more abstruse than the interaction of light-cones at relativistic speeds). They are expected to be adopted by consensus.&lt;br /&gt;
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The extent of the Loglan development process has had a second effect, also a benefit. There have been few splinter efforts. Lojban itself is one; the splinter has become the mainstream. The Institute version of the language is ever-changing, and drawing small numbers in spite of massive advertising and a completed book. Jim Carter&#039;s language project remains essentially a one-person effort, and Jim himself remains a Lojban supporter. Meanwhile la lojbangirz. grows at an ever-accelerating rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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An effect of the dozens of person-years of work put into Loglan/Lojban is that it has become a new standard in artificial language development. Most previous artificial languages have been predominantly the result of one person&#039;s work. But, now, no individual language inventor can hope to put as much work into a language design as we all have. Barring some major new insight into the nature of language, any future language development project hoping to improve upon Lojban would likely require several people working together, and most likely will build on the work we and others have done rather than start anew.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that this is as it should be. The Library of Congress has dozens of books about one-man languages that never went anywhere. Language is by its nature a commu- nicative process between people with varying experience. One person cannot simultaneously test speakability and understandability, and viable languages must exhibit both virtues across the full range of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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A final aspect of the publicness of the language development is the emphasis on keeping a record of what we have done. An enormous archive is being built and maintained on this development effort. Whether any particular version of Loglan survives and prospers, those who come later will see what we have done and be able to learn from it. Among artificial languages, only Esperanto has any significant historical record of the language before it blossomed into public knowledge, and that record is sparse compared to the Loglan/Lojban record.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other feature of the language development process worthy of comment is our reliance on keeping abreast of the field of linguistics, gathering as much information is possible on what has been learned about human language before claiming to have invented a language that can serve as a human language. This serves us well in &#039;selling Lojban&#039; to both language learners and linguistics researchers, making the other goals of the language more achievable. &lt;br /&gt;
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Machine Translation and Computer Applications - The major bases of computer scientists&#039; interest in Lojban stem from the potential computer applications of the language, of which machine translation of natural language is the most well-known. A large portion of the Lojban community, perhaps as much as 50%, are people working in the broad area of computer science, if not specifically in artificial intelligence, computer language design, machine translation, or any of the several fields where Lojban applications may develop.&lt;br /&gt;
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Work on these applications is still predominantly at the concept stage, for two major reasons. First is that the language development is not fully baselined, and computer application developers avoid as much as possible trying to hit a moving target. When that baseline occurs, and if the language has achieved credibility as a human language, the second obstacle can be challenged. That obstacle is, of course, money. Most useful computer applications will take several person-years of development, requiring work from people used to fairly high salaries. Some might work on small efforts as a hobby, but we cannot expect these efforts to bear fruit, though they might serve as a seed for some future effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Getting the first financial support for Loglan applications will be difficult; Dr. Brown made one brief attempt in the late 1970&#039;s that was ignored. la lojbangirz. is taking a more systematic approach, building credibility and being aware of other research where Lojban may prove a useful adjunct. We also have been building awareness of our effort in the computer science community. When Lojban development is complete, we will have the ideas, the language, the contacts, and hopefully the credibility, to convince some research grant source to commit a large sum of money to pursue these applications.&lt;br /&gt;
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Until then, we need to exchange ideas. Patrick Juola wrote on Lojban and machine translation back in JL8, and JL9 discussed the closely related area of Lojban as a mathematics and science interlingua. Sheldon Linker has thought about the design of a heuristic learning and con- versation program (something like the HAL 9000 computer of 2001 - A Space Odyssey). Art Wieners has been pursuing similar ideas, and has done experimental work on the software needed to recognize Lojban words. Of course, the YACC grammar for Lojban enhances this line of research, and John Cowan&#039;s parser, coupled with Jeff Taylor and Jeff Prothero&#039;s earlier work, may provide the capability to go from individual speech sounds (phonemes) to fully analyzed text structure within a few months.&lt;br /&gt;
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One area we would like to pursue is the current research being done in teaching computers &#039;common-sense&#039;. Some researchers are not too far from getting computers to understand a large subset of English. The simpler, more regular grammar of Lojban should make the computer processing for language structure much lighter, allowing more effort to go into &#039;understanding&#039; of language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob, as editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, would like to encourage more computer scientists to write brief outlines of their ideas for Lojban for the benefit of JL readers. These seeds, planted today, may become grant proposals tomorrow.&lt;br /&gt;
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International Language - JL11 and JL13 have contained significant discussion of the oft-made comparisons between Loglan and Esperanto, and this issue hopefully brings those discussions to a conclusion. As the computer network discussions excerpted later in this issue demonstrate, the topic has not been limited to this journal. The topic has been thoroughly addressed, but let&#039;s summarize the key elements of the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will first cover the question of Lojban as an common language in certain specialized domains, such as mathematics, international law, etc. The arguments with Esperantists in these pages and elsewhere have not addressed these questions. Each language brings its own advantages to the problem. Esperanto brings its culture, demonstrated speaker base, and (surprisingly as an &#039;advantage&#039;) its European structure and vocabulary. When well over 90% of the published material in the world is written in a European language, and most of that in English, Loglan&#039;s non-European grammar is NOT an advantage. Loglan&#039;s advantages are that its grammar is unambiguous, that machine translation was considered in making design decisions, and that it is likely to be seen less as a &amp;quot;colonial&amp;quot; (=European) language to Third World populations.&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t clear what parameters could be used to decide what &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;best&amp;quot;. Esperanto has a large number of speakers, an established community, culture, and literature, and considerable recognition outside its own speaker base as &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; international language. On the other hand, many Esperantists admit that the language has flaws, and that other languages invented since have remedied some of these flaws (usually while introducing new ones that are equally severe); they contend however, that the entire set of flaws in the language are more than made up by the 100 years of language experience that has been acquired.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, Bob, agree with this position. Esperanto is presently in good standing as the prime candidate among artificial languages. Under the best of circumstances for us, Lojban will not legitimately contest this standing for at least a generation, because it will take at least that long for Lojban to build a literature, culture, etc. It may not happen even then.&lt;br /&gt;
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It remains to be proven whether any artificial language, or any single language at all can serve the needs of a &amp;quot;world language&amp;quot;. I doubt that most people really know what such a language would entail. Those who raise the claim of English as such a language, for example, forget that English is not a single language. Only in rigid, formal, written text like scientific writing is there enough standardization that various English dialects are mutually intelligible to the degree required by an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot;. I can note that, even there, one can find lapses. Last year, I read a technical book on lexicography, the science of dictionary-making, written by a Czech linguist under the auspices of the United Nations, and translated with his help into English. Portions were only barely intelligible. Yet it was clear that the author did have considerable command of idiomatic English, and Czech is a European language, presumably closer to English than most non-European ones. And this was written by a linguist who specializes in writing dictionaries of other languages, and therefore highly aware of the difficulties in international communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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I contend that colloquial or conversational communication will be much more difficult to unify under the auspices of an &#039;international language&#039;. This is because the problem is NOT a lack of a common language, but a lack of educa- tion. Education starts with the ability to read and write your own native language fluently - who could justify asking someone to learn to read a second language when they cannot read their own - and how would you teach them. But a large portion of the world&#039;s population, probably a majority, is totally illiterate, and others are only semi- literate. How dare we as Loglanists expect to teach them predicate logic or even relativistic tenses!&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t necessary to learn to read and write in order to learn a language, but all international language proposals have been predominantly targeted at the educated speaker, and teaching materials and methods generally require ability to read and write as well as some understanding about the formal rules of your native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not damn the illiterate. The supposedly literate societies are just as bad as targets for an international language. How much of the recent turmoil in the Middle East has been due to the fact that Westerners, especially Americans, do not understand Arabic culture, much less the Arabic language? The journalists seemed to consider it a major discovery that &amp;quot;mother of all battles&amp;quot;, conveyed to us as a grandiose pomposity by Saddam Hussein, was merely the literal English translation of a rather natural Arabic way of saying &amp;quot;big battle&amp;quot;. Translate the phrase literally into Esperanto or Lojban and it would still convey misleading ideas - you cannot translate idiom literally without error. You may not be able to translate non-idiom literally, either - imagine the misunderstanding of an translation that results in using the traditional meaning of &amp;quot;gay&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us say that it is agreed that there will be an international language (not as universally agreed as many enthusiasts might want to believe), the language must be chosen. Then the method(s) of teaching the language must be developed, methods on a scale large enough to overcome differences of education, and access to materials. If only the most educated members of a society are taught to speak an international language, the only &amp;quot;achievement&amp;quot; is a class system with walls virtually impossible to surmount. (Of course, motivating a farmer who never runs into foreigners to learn an international language may be difficult. But if she/he doesn&#039;t learn the language, his/her children will be severely handicapped in joining the internationally-connected &#039;upper-class&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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If a language is chosen, it should probably be an artificial one, and Esperanto is by far the leading candidate. Indeed, with the exception of Lojban (which has major goals independent of the international language question to drive it), there are no other meaningful candidates. The other artificial languages of the world simply do not offer anything to justify their selection.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why? Because other candidates have little to offer besides some aesthetic purity of design, and a purported claim that they are &#039;easier to learn&#039; than Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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But questions of which artificial language is most &amp;quot;easy to learn&amp;quot; are red herrings that settle nothing. Indeed, close examination tends to reveal that artificial languages theoretically are no easier to learn than natural languages - I&#039;ve heard no claim that the few children who are Es- peranto &#039;native speakers&#039; because they are raised in a household where Esperanto is spoken, learn their language any faster than an English-native speaker learns English.&lt;br /&gt;
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For second-language learning, too much depends on student background, motivation, and method. There are as many theories of the &amp;quot;best&amp;quot; way to teach a language as there are researchers; yet they give approximately similar results when tested against real students. How could non-spe- cialists be better able to judge fine distinctions as to which language is easier to teach, or to learn?&lt;br /&gt;
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The methodology and the goal are more important than the language. Esperanto vocabulary may be easier for an English speaker to learn, but if this merely leads to English-native Esperantists that speak an encoded English idiom, why bother? They have not learned an international language, because non-English speakers will fail to under- stand the idiom. (When Lojbanists speak encoded idiom, it stands out so starkly that &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; is one of the first words a practicing Lojbanist learns.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A quote from Andrew Large&#039;s The Artificial Language Movement may help set a perspective. Large cites a President of the international Esperanto organization UEA, as giving the following as an estimate of Esperanto&#039;s ease of learning:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... Professor Lapenna offered a reasonable estimate of two or three hours per week for a year in order to acquire &amp;quot;a solid groundwork of knowledge of Esperanto&#039;s grammatical structure and of five hundred or so selected roots, from which the language&#039;s agglutinative structure enables one to derive some five thousand words.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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This sounds far easier than learning a natural language (about the equivalent of a 1 semester, 3 credit class, spread over a full year), but the comparison with natural language is only relevant if someone is choosing between learning a second natural language and Esperanto. The choice is seldom that simple - except for mandatory school requirements, most people learn a language because they intend to use it. People who seriously study a second natural language spend far more than a couple hours a week in study for a year (or longer) if they want to achieve competence in that language; Lapenna&#039;s estimate is only a hobbyist level-of-effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Serious students with serious goals in language competence study much more intensely, and achieve much better results than Lapenna claims. I learned the Lojban gismu list, 1300 words easily giving millions if not billions of agglutinative compounds, in 3 months of a bit more than an hour a day - perhaps half of Lapenna&#039;s total time estimate at twice the intensity - yet I don&#039;t claim the Lojban vocabulary is as easy to learn for English speakers as Esperanto&#039;s cognates. The advantage was due to more intense effort, interest, and a teaching method especially effective at vocabulary instruction. (At such a higher level of effort, Esperanto students might learn a few more roots due to the cognate recognition factor, but not all that many more.)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, if the claim is that Esperanto, or any artificial language, is easier to learn than a natural language at a hobbyist level of effort, I would never contest this. But that level of effort gives insufficient rewards in terms of achievement and understanding to sustain the motivation of the average person.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll claim, by the way, that vocabulary learning is the major factor in achieving the kind of language skill Lapenna is talking about, at least in an artificial language. Elsewhere in the same discussion, Large notes that a few hours of study are all that it takes to understand the basics of Esperanto&#039;s grammar. We can make the same claim about Lojban. But grammar is not the critical factor. (In natural languages, it is idiom, and other exceptions to the standard grammar, that makes a language time consuming to master.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Returning specifically to Lojban, as an international language candidate. The essential first requirement is that Lojban be demonstrated as truly viable as a language, among several different native-language populations. This will not be easy. Lojban is not yet spoken by any non-na- tive-English speaker, and the few in that category that are studying the language must obviously know English to learn Lojban, since we have no materials beyond our brochure in any foreign language. We must develop fluent Lojbanists who also are fluent in other languages in order to get these materials. (Silvia Romanelli reported working on translating the draft textbook lessons into Italian a year ago, but we do not know her current status.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is likely to be the first non-English language that we have substantial Lojban teaching materials in, simply because it is the most commonly spoken non-English language in the community (and the largest audience of people immediately likely to be interested in learning an- other artificial language for any purpose).&lt;br /&gt;
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The politics of choosing an international language favor Esperanto, or even English, by far over Lojban. There is little to be done in this arena other than to survive and grow as a language. This takes speakers and money, and for the near future we will have to concentrate on English speakers, while trying to constantly reach out to natives of other languages. The English-speaking market is the hardest one though; English predominance as an international means of communication means that there is lower motivation among English speakers to learn other languages - and motivation and effort, as I said above, are everything. Even Esperanto has made few inroads in the English-speaking market (ELNA, the North American Esperanto organization, has only around 1000 members, only a few times the effective size of la lojbangirz.) la lojbangirz. can gain enormous credibility if we can motivate Americans and other English-speakers to learn a candidate international language. We have an advantage, being centered in the United States, and should use that advantage.&lt;br /&gt;
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It won&#039;t be easy, though. Most Americans never learn to speak a foreign language at even a minimal level (Europeans, including the British are apparently much better in this regard; Canadians are almost certainly exposed to French to some considerable degree; I have no knowledge of foreign language education in other English- speaking countries). If a Southern Californian (I lived there 9 years), faced with almost a majority of native Spanish-speaking neighbors, can avoid learning Spanish fluently, much less minimally, what will make her/him learn Lojban. It won&#039;t be ease of learning. It must be motivation and education. People must come to believe that understanding the ideas of those of different cultures is important.&lt;br /&gt;
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The international language movement must be a movement of education. Lojban&#039;s contribution to that movement will therefore not be as a competitor with Esperanto, but as a tool of education, used in cooperation with Esperantists, and all others who seek to improve the world&#039;s lot through education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Intercultural Communications/Studies - This is often the goal of those supporting international languages: a means to understand other cultures. Ease of learning is not the most important factor here, cultural neutrality is far more important.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve put a lot of effort during the last year to ensure that Lojban has incorporated the means to express the ideas of different cultures with equal ease. Language typology, the study of universals that all languages have in common, and the differences that make each language unique, is a study that is finally gaining significant progress. From this work, we can see what linguistic features Lojban needs to succeed as a language, and what features it must emulate in order to successfully model other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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In particular, I&#039;ve concentrated on a book, The World&#039;s Major Languages, edited by B. Comrie. This book surveys several dozen languages in considerable detail, both European and non-European. After 6 months of steady plowing, I can report that Lojban has the capability of conveying the essence of each of the idiosyncratic structures I found, though sometimes in unusual ways. For example, the &#039;topic construction&#039; of Japanese turns out to be nicely modelled by Lojban&#039;s prenex construction, designed for certain logical expressions. The Chinese sentences used as examples can often be conveyed in Lojban as very elaborate tanru. It is clear to me that, if the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is true, then Lojban&#039;s ability to model the structures of the world&#039;s languages will lead to a corresponding ability to understand the cultures that use those languages. Time will surely tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s value in understanding other cultures is enhanced by the requirement to thoroughly think about what you wish to say in culture-free terms in order to express it in Lojban, with its drastically different structures. The translations of a Suzanne Vega song lyric into several artificial languages in le lojbo se ciska, and my commentary, may be more revealing than a lot of words here. It took me a couple of hours to do the Lojban translation, not because anything therein was hard to say in Lojban, but it took time to figure out just what the author was trying to say (and I&#039;m a native English speaker).&lt;br /&gt;
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Expressing cultural ideas in Lojban for the benefit of those in other cultures, will be slow and at times cumbersome, especially for those not fluent in the language. But the problem is not trivial, and a little deliberation may be a good sign rather than a bad one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Language Education - Half of language education for natural languages (or even more) is understanding the culture of the target language, since so much of the natural idiom of a language is tied to various cultural metaphors. Thus everything mentioned in the last section provides a benefit for Lojban as a medium for learning other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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I noted above that linguists have determined no optimal method for teaching languages. A survey I&#039;ve done of both traditional and innovative teaching methods indicates that each method has advantages and disadvantages; they will work for some students and not for others.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have found the same thing with LogFlash, our superb vocabulary teaching method. Both Nora and I have learned the Lojban vocabulary with what we saw as incredible ease, and more important, with incredible staying power - we don&#039;t forget what we have learned. But the method requires the student to use the program for about 2-3 months at an hour a day, with major interruptions causing a significant delay in mastery of the language. We&#039;re working on improvements with the next version of the program that will minimize the effect of interruption or lesser time spent, but the bottom line is that the method requires a commitment to regular use - it takes a certain number of hours to learn a certain amount of vocabulary. Someone who doesn&#039;t spend that time, regularly for 3 months, will have less success. People who need a variety of activities to maintain their interest may find LogFlash&#039;s monotonous, if effective, drills beyond their tolerance (unless they spend additional time above and beyond LogFlash study in other Lojbanic activities).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban, however, offers an excellent laboratory for experimenting with new methods in language education, and the techniques we have developed as amateurs have already proven effective for people trying to learn other languages. Darren Stalder, now studying Japanese, reports that studying Lojban gave him an awareness of the lin- guistic features of how words sound (phonology) that has greatly enhanced his learning of Japanese. He understands the rules for pronouncing the language, but also better understands why the rules hold, allowing him to better remember the rules when they apply as well as to extrapo- late when the rules do not explicitly cover the situation. Sylvia Rutiser has also been working with Japanese, trying to use the LogFlash flash card techniques to learn the Japanese writing system.&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that language education may be one of the areas where Lojban first scores a breakthrough that attracts attention from those not directly interested in the language itself. When the textbook is complete, I will be seeking funding to pursue the study of Lojban as a tech- nique of language education. In the meantime, I&#039;ll be listening carefully at the relevant discussions at the Georgetown Round Table meetings on this subject in April.&lt;br /&gt;
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Linguistics Research - Much of the rest of this issue addresses the subject of Lojban and the linguistics community, so I won&#039;t spend much space here. As that discussion will show, the concept of using Lojban to study creolization processes (how languages evolve in contact with other languages) is a new idea that should have significant credibility. Unlike a comparable study based on a natural language, studying the creolization of Lojban gains the benefit of a clear statement as to what the language is before the start of such an evolutionary process, thus allowing changes to be more easily observed and measured.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most attention regarding Loglan linguistics research has been with regard to testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, the original goal and primary ideal of some supporters of the language. JL6 and JL7 discussed this topic considerably, and there has been more discussion since then, including some in the computer network material in this issue. However, a Sapir-Whorf test may take decades to plan and conduct, and may be unconvincing to some even if successful.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus far more important to Lojban&#039;s future in linguistics research, and its credibility among linguists, is that Loglan/Lojban be proven useful for studying other aspects of language. We are lucky in this. Dr. Brown, in inventing the language, envisioned and designed it to serve as a &#039;test bed&#039; for language experimentation, having a minimum of features that might detract from the ability for later linguists to use Loglan as a tool to learn. We believe that the Lojban designers have stuck to this principle, and even enhanced it, in the last few years. What remains is to convince the linguists that we are correct.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us turn now to the first step in making the linguistic case for Lojban, the response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 critique of Loglan. We will then follow with other aspects of Lojban&#039;s application, especially as discussed on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review of Loglan 1 Loglan and Lojban: A Linguist&#039;s Questions And An Amateur&#039;s Answers ==&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan (ci&#039;a la djan. kau,n.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Internet address: cowan@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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The following questions about Loglan are based on a 1969 review by Arnold M. Zwicky of James Cooke Brown&#039;s 1966 edition of Loglan 1. Although basically friendly, Zwicky&#039;s review raises a large number of linguistic objections to Loglan as it existed in 1966. The review represents the only formal notice the linguistics community has ever taken of the Loglan Project. Unfortunately, the Project has never made any reply.&lt;br /&gt;
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The answers that appear here reflect the perspective of Lojban (not Institute Loglan) as it exists in 1991. Therefore, no attempts have been made to sort out Zwicky&#039;s misunderstandings of Brown&#039;s text, Brown&#039;s misunderstandings (or mistakes in writing) about his own language, valid points as of 1969 that were later changed by Brown, and valid points as of 1969 that were changed when (or since) Lojban split from Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Throughout, &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; refers to 1966 Loglan as seen by Zwicky, and &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; to 1991 Lojban as seen by me. The word &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; is derived from the same metaphor as &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) but using Lojban words (&amp;quot;logji bangu&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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As the title indicates, I am only an amateur (lit. &amp;quot;lover&amp;quot;) of linguistics, and I may misinterpret some of Zwicky&#039;s points. The question-and-answer format used here is purely for expository convenience. Zwicky is not responsible for the form of the questions, which reflect only my interpretations of his points, except for quoted text within the questions followed by (Z), which are quotations from Zwicky&#039;s original review. That review was published in Language 45:2 (1969), pp. 444-457.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. Lojban sentences do not have unique interpretations; how can Lojban be said to be unambiguous?&lt;br /&gt;
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The sense in which Lojban is said to be unambiguous is not a simple one, and some amplification of the fundamental claim is necessary. Ambiguity is judged on four levels: the phonological-graphical, the morphological, the syntactic, and the semantic.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is audio-visually isomorphic: the writing system has a grapheme for every phoneme and vice versa, and there are no supra-segmental phonemes (such as tones or pitch) which are not represented in the writing system. Lojban&#039;s phonology contains significant pauses that affect word boundaries, and allows pauses between any two words. The optional written representation for pause is a period, although pauses can be unambiguously identified in written text from the morphological rules alone. Lojban also uses stress significantly, and again there is a written representation (capitalization of the affected vowel or syllable), which is omitted in most text, where the morphological default of penultimate stress applies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is morphologically unambiguous in two senses: a string of phonemes (including explicit pause and stress information) can be broken up into words in only one way, and each compound word can be converted to and from an equivalent phrase in only one way.&lt;br /&gt;
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The syntactic unambiguity of Lojban has been established by the use of a LALR(1) parser generator which, in cooperation with a series of simple pre-parser operations, produces a unique parse for every Lojban text. In addition, the existence of a defined &#039;phrase structure rule&#039; grammar underlying the language (and tested via the parser generator) guarantees that there are no sentences where distinct deep structures generate isomorphic surface structures. On the other hand, Lojban does have transformations, although they are not explicit in the machine grammar: there are distinct surface structures which have the same semantics, and therefore reflect the same underlying deep structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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The claim for semantic unambiguity is a limited one only. Lojban contains several constructs which are explicitly ambiguous semantically. The most important of these are Lojban tanru (so-called &#039;metaphors&#039;) and Lojban names. Names are ambiguous in almost any language, and Lojban is no better; a name simply must be resolved in context, and the only final authority for the meaning of a name is the user of the name. tanru are further discussed in later replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. If the meaning of a particular tanru cannot be completely understood from understanding the component parts, a separate dictionary entry is needed for every possible tanru, making the Lojban dictionary infinitely long. How can this be avoided?&lt;br /&gt;
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tanru are binary combinations of predicates, such that the second predicate is the &#039;head&#039; and the first predicate is a modifier for that head. The meaning of the tanru is the meaning of its head, with the additional information that there is some unspecified relationship between the head and the modifier. tanru are the basis of compound words in Lojban. However, a compound word has a single defined meaning whereas the meaning of a tanru is explicitly ambiguous. Lojban tanru are not as free as English figures of speech; they are &#039;analytic&#039;, meaning that the components of the tanru do not themselves assume a figurative sense. Only the connection between them is unstated.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most of the constructs of Lojban are semantically unambiguous, and there are semantically unambiguous ways (such as with relative clauses) to paraphrase the meaning of any tanru. For example, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;plastic-cat&amp;quot;) might be paraphrased in ways that translate to &amp;quot;cat that is made from plastic&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;cat which eats plastic&amp;quot; or various other interpretations, just as in English. However, the single (compound) word derived from this tanru, &amp;quot;slasymlatu&amp;quot;, has exactly one meaning from among the interpretations, which could be looked up in a dictionary (if someone had found the word useful enough to formally submit it). There is no law compelling the creation of such a word, however, and there is even an &#039;escape mechanism&#039; allowing a speaker to indicate that a particular instance of a &#039;nonce&#039; compound word is &#039;nonstandard&#039; (has not been checked against a dictionary or other standard), and may have a meaning based on an unusual interpretation of the underlying tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. The Loglan &#039;primitive words&#039; seem to have been chosen at random, without regard to any sort of semantic theory. Why was this done?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban content words are built up from a list of about 1300 root words (called &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;), which are not necessarily to be taken as semantically simple. Lojban does not claim to exhibit a complete and comprehensive semantic theory which hierarchically partitions the entire semantic space of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rather, the 1300-odd root words blanket semantic space, in the sense that everything human beings talk about can be built up using appropriate tanru. This claim is being tested in actual usage, and root words can still be added if necessary (after careful consideration) if genuine gaps are found. For the most part, the few gaps which are now recognized (about 20 words will be added soon) reflect the completing of semantic sets. It is no longer permitted for language users to create new gismu root words (in the standard form of the language, at least); newly coined words must fall recognizably outside the highly regulated gismu morphological space (a specific and separate morphological structure is reserved for coined words - usually borrowings - and a marker is available to indicate that a word is a &#039;nonce&#039; coinage rather than an established &#039;dictionary word&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s empirically derived word list is similar to that of Basic English, which replaces the whole English vocabulary with English-normal compounds built from about 800 root words. Lojban and Basic English both allow for the adoption of technical terms from other languages to cover things like plant and animal names, food names, and names of chemical compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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The unfortunate terms &amp;quot;primitive word&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;prim&amp;quot; formerly used by the Loglan Project suggested the notion that Lojban&#039;s set of gismu was meant to be a list of semantic primitives. This is not the case for Lojban, and the more neutral term &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot; was adopted recently to reduce confusion. Lojban predicate words, therefore, are now divided into gismu &#039;root words&#039;, lujvo &#039;compound words&#039; and le&#039;avla &#039;borrowings&#039; (lit. &#039;taken words&#039;). (Brown did originally select some words as &#039;semantic primitives&#039;; however, he later added words with no claim that the addi- tions were &#039;primitive&#039; in the same sense).&lt;br /&gt;
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4. Some tanru seem poorly designed and not in keeping with expressed standards. Also, tanru like &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot;, analogous to English &amp;quot;girls&#039; school&amp;quot;, are so open-ended in sense that there is no way to block such far-fetched interpretations as &amp;quot;a school intended to train girls between the ages of 6 and 10 to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, which is patently absurd. What is the proper interpretation of tanru?&lt;br /&gt;
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In the early part of the Loglan Project, poor tanru were regrettably common. In particular, it was common for tanru to be calques on English expressions, such as &amp;quot;beautiful type of small&amp;quot; for English &amp;quot;pretty small&amp;quot;. Many tanru employed the primitive for &amp;quot;make&amp;quot;&#039; (in the sense &amp;quot;make from materials&amp;quot;) where &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; would have been more appropriate (e.g. &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;dead-make&amp;quot;). Many years worth of effort since then have gone into removing such malglico (&#039;derogatively English&#039;) tanru from Lojban texts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tanru &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;girl type of school&amp;quot;) cannot mean, out of context, &amp;quot;school intended to train girls between 6 and 10 years of age to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, although if such a school existed it could certainly be called a nixli ckule. This interpretation can be rejected as implausible because it involves additional restrictive information. The undefined relationship between &amp;quot;nixli&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ckule&amp;quot; cannot drag in additional information &#039;by the hair&#039;, as it were. Instead, this intricate interpretation would require a larger tanru incorporating nixli ckule as one of its components, or else a non-tanru construct, probably involving a Lojban relative clause. As a comparison, such interpretations as &amp;quot;school containing girls&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;school whose students are girls&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;school to train persons to behave like girls&amp;quot; are plausible with minimal context because these renderings do not involve ad- ditional restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. Lojban claims to be unambiguous, but many constructs have vague meanings, and the meanings of the primitives themselves are extremely poorly specified. On the other hand, Lojban forces precision on speakers where it is not wanted and where natural-language speakers can easily avoid it. Is this appropriate to a culturally neutral, unambiguous language?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s avoidance of ambiguity does not mean an avoidance of vagueness. A Lojban aphorism states that the price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity, as indeed Wilkins&#039; Philosophical Language illustrates. Lojban&#039;s allowable vagueness permits useful sentences to be not much longer than their natural-language counterparts.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are many ways to omit information in Lojban, and it is up to the listener to reconstruct what was meant, just as in natural languages. In each construct, there are specific required and optional components. Unlike English, omitting an optional component explicitly and unambiguously flags an ellipsis. Furthermore, the listener has a clear way of querying any of this elliptically omitted information.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are also some categories which are necessary in Lojban and not in other languages. For example, Lojban requires the speaker, whenever referring to objects, to specify whether the objects are considered as individuals, as a mass, or as a (set theoretic) set. Likewise, logical relations are made explicit: there can be no neutrality in Lojban about inclusive vs. exclusive &#039;or&#039;, which are no more closely related semantically than any other pair of logical connectives.&lt;br /&gt;
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These properties are a product of Lojban&#039;s fundamental design, which was chosen to emphasize a highly distinctive and non-natural syntax (that of formal first-order predicate logic) embedded in a language with the same expressive power as natural languages. Through the appearance of this one highly unusual feature, the intent of the Loglan Project has been to maximize one difference between Lojban and natural languages without compromising speakability and learnability. This difference could then be tested by considering whether the use of first-order predicate logic as a syntactic base aided fluent Lojban speakers in the use of this logic as a reasoning tool.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to the &#039;primitives&#039;, Lojban gismu roots are defined rather abstractly, in order to cover as large a segment of closely related semantic space as possible. These broad (but not really vague) concepts can then be restricted using tanru and other constructs to any arbitrary degree necessary for clarity. Communicating the meaning of a gismu (or any other Lojban word) is a problem of teaching and lexicography. The concepts are defined as predicate relationships among various arguments, and various experimental approaches have been explored throughout the Loglan Project to determine the best means to convey these meanings. It is believed that the current working definitions of the gismu are much more clear than the 1966 set.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. On a more technical note, Lojban tanru involving more than two components are always left-grouping (in the absence of a marker word). Right-branching structure is &amp;quot;much more natural to human languages&amp;quot; (Z). Why was this choice made? &lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is predominantly a left-branching language. By default, all structures are left-branching, with right- branching available when marked by a particle. Since the head of most constructs appears on the left, left-branching structures tend to favor the speaker. Nothing spoken needs to be revised to add more information. When the head is on the right, as in the case of tanru, left-branching may seem counter-intuitive, as it requires the listener to retain the entire structure in mind until the head is found. However, left-branching was retained even in tanru for the sake of simplicity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Experience has shown, however, that Lojban&#039;s left- branching structure is not a major problem for language learners. Indeed, many longer English metaphors translate directly into Lojban using simple left-branching structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. Loglan anaphora use a convention which is &amp;quot;quite precise, and also quite unlike anything in natural languages&amp;quot; (Z), involving counting backward from the reference to the referent. This provides unique reference, but is also difficult to understand and use. Is there nothing better that preserves the desirable property of unique reference which a logical language needs?&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban anaphora conventions have undergone much revision and expansion since the early days of Loglan. There now exist both the &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot; Loglan back-counting anaphora, which refer to previous referents, and more &amp;quot;natural-language-like&amp;quot; anaphoric words which are meaningless until assigned. Assignment may be either in after-thought or forethought. These words are somewhat like natural language pronouns, but may more closely be compared to the use of regions of space in American Sign Language to refer to remote persons and things. Unassigned space regions in ASL are similarly meaningless.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is no longer a required convention that anaphora variables be assigned in a fixed order. Subscripts (as in mathematics) are allowed almost everywhere in the language, and provide for a countable infinity of variables as of many other things. Lojban also has added the capability of using individual letters and acronyms as anaphoric symbols.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. Why does Loglan have a different and even more complex system of &amp;quot;personal pronouns&amp;quot; for speaker/listener reference? Is this level of complexity really in order for what other languages treat as a simple matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban personal pronouns have been simplified. There are now forms for I, II, III, I and II, I and III, II and III, and I and II and III. There are no separate forms (and never have been) for plurals, because number is not a mandatory grammatical category in any part of Lojban. Number is expressed, when needed, using explicit numerals (which include both precise and vague forms analogous to English &#039;some&#039;, &#039;few&#039;, &#039;too many&#039;, etc.) Honorifics were recently added to the language, using a general mechanism which may apply to any word or construct, not merely to pronouns.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. Why does Loglan treat predicate connection as primary and sentence, argument, etc. connection as secondary?&lt;br /&gt;
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Whatever may have been assumed in the past for pedagogical purposes, logical connection between sentences is basic to Lojban. All other forms of logical connection may be transformed into equivalent sentence connections.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. Why are there so many structure words, and why are many of them so similar? Wouldn&#039;t this make Loglan hard to understand at a cocktail party (or a similar noisy environment)?&lt;br /&gt;
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One of the recurrent difficulties with all forms of Loglan, including Lojban, is the tendency to fill up the available space of structure words, making words of similar function hard to distinguish in noisy environments. The phonological revisions made when Lojban split from Insti- tute Loglan allowed for many more structure words (cmavo), but once again the list has almost entirely filled.&lt;br /&gt;
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In some cases, notably the digits 0-9, an effort has been made to separate them phonologically. The vocatives (including the words used for communication protocol, e.g. over the radio) are also maximally separated phonologically. Many other function words are based on shortened forms of corresponding gismu roots, however, and are not maximally separated.&lt;br /&gt;
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A variety of ways to say &amp;quot;Huh?&amp;quot; have been added to the language, partially alleviating the difficulty. These question words can be used to specify the type of word that was expected, or the part of the relationship that was not understood by the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;restrictions on stresses and pauses results in long sequences of unstressed syllables which must be pronounced without a break&amp;quot; (Z). This makes correct speech a &amp;quot;trial for a speaker of English or Russian, and not easy even for a speaker of French&amp;quot; (Z). Natural languages often have non-significant pauses, but in Loglan every non- required pause is forbidden. Is Loglan really speakable?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban allows certain flexibilities of pause and stress in the area of structure words. By default, all structure words are unstressed. However, it is possible to set off structure words with optional pauses, and even to give them optional stress, subject to a single limitation: a structure word followed by a predicate word without pause must not be stressed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Pauses are now permitted between any two words; only within a word is pause forbidden, and most words are short. gismu and cmavo are always one or two syllables long, and many lujvo compounds are only two or three syllables.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. &amp;quot;A partial explanation for the existence of transformations is to be found in the necessity for providing speakers of any language with relatively acceptable variants of certain types of deep structures.&amp;quot; (Z) Loglan has no transformations, making some sentences expressible, but far from straightforward or easy to use. Doesn&#039;t this make Loglan harder to use than typical natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have transformations, in the sense that there are several alternative surface structures that have the same semantics and therefore, presumably, the same deep structure. What it does not have is identical surface structures with differing deep structures, so a surface- structure-only grammar is sufficient to develop an adequate parsing for every text. Knowledge of transformations is required only to get the semantics right.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. Lojban connectives cannot be used to correctly translate English &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot;, because material implication is too weak and the special causal connectives, which connect assertions, are too strong. What can be done instead?&lt;br /&gt;
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The English sentence &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot; looks superficially like a Lojban &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot; connection (material implication), but it actually has causal connotations not present in &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot;. Therefore, a proper translation must involve the notion of cause. Neither the Lojban coordinating causal conjunction nor the two cor- relative subordinating causal conjunctions (one of which subordinates the cause and the other the effect) will serve, since these require that either the cause, or the effect, or both be asserted. Instead, the correct translation of the English involves &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; as a predicate, and might be paraphrased &amp;quot;The event of your watering it is a cause of the event of its future growing.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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14. How can Loglan logical connectives be used in imperative sentences? Logical connectives work properly only on complete sentences, and of those, only those which actually assert something.&lt;br /&gt;
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In early versions of Loglan, imperatives were marked by a predication without a subject. In Lojban, there is a special imperative pronoun &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot;. This is a second person pronoun logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;, the normal Lojban word for &#039;you&#039;, but conveying an imperative sense. Thus, an imperative can be understood as commanding the listener to make the assertion true which results when &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; is replaced by &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, &amp;quot;ko sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;Stop!&#039;) is logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;you stop&#039;), and pragmatically may be understood as &#039;Make &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; true!&amp;quot;. This allows logical connection to be used in imperatives without loss of clarity or generality; the logical connection applies to the assertion which is in effect embedded in the im- perative.&lt;br /&gt;
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A minor advantage of this style of imperative is that tensed imperatives like &amp;quot;ko ba klama&amp;quot;, (&#039;Come in-the- future!&#039;) become straightforward.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. Loglan&#039;s existential (bound) variables appear to be non-standard. Brown states that the value of an existential variable is always unknown to the speaker, rather than merely being unspecified (perhaps for reasons of privacy or germaneness). Why is this? Also, why isn&#039;t quantification over predicates provided? Why are the back- counting anaphora unable to refer to existential variables?&lt;br /&gt;
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Existential variables are now interpreted in a standard way, to refer to something unspecified, or something specified by a restrictive relative clause (&amp;quot;all x such that...&amp;quot;). There are separate sets of variables for quantifying over arguments and over predicates. In general, the back-counting anaphora (which are less important in Lojban than in Loglan) are not used to refer to other anaphoric words; this makes the counting convention a bit more complex, but leads to more generally useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. Untensed sentences ought to be neutral with respect to tense, mood, and aspect, but Brown treats untensed sentences as expressing disposition, habit, or ability - lasting throughout all time. This is inconsistent with other parts of the language which treat ellipsized material as merely unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tense system has been greatly elaborated and clarified with respect to its Loglan predecessor. There are now specific mechanisms for stating the potentiality or actuality of a predication; in the absence of these, a predication is neutral concerning the degree of actuality expressed by it. It is no longer true that &amp;quot;untensed&amp;quot; predicates are used to express disposition or habit. They may be so used, by ellipsis, but are in fact neutral in the absence of further evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban tense, like other incidental modifiers of a predication, tend to be contextually &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot;. When once specified in connected discourse, to whatever degree of precision seems appropriate, tense need not be respecified in each sentence. In narration, this assumption is modi- fied to the extent that each sentence is assumed to refer to a slightly later time than the previous sentence, although with explicit tense markers it is possible to tell a story in reversed or scrambled time order. Therefore, each predication does have a tense, one that is implicit if not necessarily explicit.&lt;br /&gt;
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17. The decisions about the degrees of predicates (the number of arguments expected for each) seem arbitrary. Color words are treated as relations of degree 2; weather predicates which have no real subject nevertheless need at least one argument; event predicates like &amp;quot;kiss&amp;quot; don&#039;t have an argument specifying the time. What theory underlies the choice of place structures?&lt;br /&gt;
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Very little. Place structures are empirically derived, like the root word list itself, and present a far more difficult problem; therefore, they will be standardized (if ever) only after everything else is complete. Many of the particular objections made above have force, and have already been accepted. There is no sufficiently complete and general case theory that allows the construction of a priori place structures for the large variety of predicates that exist in the real world.&lt;br /&gt;
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The current place structures of Lojban represent a three- way compromise: fewer places are easier to learn; more places make for more concision (arguments not represented in the place structure may be added, but must be marked with appropriate case tags); the presence of an argument in the place structure makes a metaphysical claim that it is required for the predication to be meaningful. This last point requires some explanation. For example, the predicate &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;come, go&amp;quot;) has five places: the actor, the destination, the origin, the route, and the means. Lojban therefore claims that anything not involving these five notions (whether specified in a particular sentence or not) is not an instance of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. The predicate &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;leave&amp;quot;) has the same places except for the destination; it is not necessary to be going anywhere in particular for &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; to hold. &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;travel&amp;quot;) has neither origin nor destination, merely, the actor, the route, and the means. The predicate &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;), involves only a walker and a means of walking (typically legs). One may walk without an origin or a destination (in circles, e.g.). For describing the act of walking from somewhere to somewhere, the tanru &amp;quot;cadzu klama&amp;quot; or the corresponding lujvo &amp;quot;dzukla&amp;quot; would be appropriate. The tanru &amp;quot;cadzu cliva&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cadzu litru&amp;quot; may be similarly analyzed.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. The Loglan phonological system is hard for English- speakers (to say nothing of Japanese-speakers) to use, due to the large numbers of consonant clusters and non-English diphthongs. How can a language be appropriate as an international auxiliary language when it is difficult to pronounce?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban phonology is much better than 1966 Loglan&#039;s was. There are now only 4 falling and 10 rising diphthongs, and the rising diphthongs are used only in names and in paralinguistic grunts representing emotions. All 25 vowel combinations are used, but they are separated by a voiceless vocalic glide written with an apostrophe, thus preventing diphthongization. English-speakers think of this glide as /h/, and even speakers of languages like French, which has no /h/, can manage this sound intervocalically.&lt;br /&gt;
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Consonant clusters are controlled more carefully as well. Only 48 selected clusters are permitted initially; some of these, such as &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mr&amp;quot;, do not appear in English, but are still possible to English-speakers with a bit of prac- tice. Medial consonant clusters are also restricted, to prevent mixed voiced-unvoiced clusters, consecutive stops, and other hard-to-handle combinations. The new Lojban sound /y/, IPA [@], is used to separate &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; medial clusters wherever the morphology rules would otherwise produce them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Difficulties with the variety of permitted initial sounds are overestimated. Lojban&#039;s morphology makes pronouncing these words easier than they first appear. Initial consonant clusters occur only in content words (predicates) and names. These words seldom are spoken in isolation; rather, they are expressed in a speech stream with a rhythmic stress pattern preceded (and followed) by words that end with a vowel. The unambiguous morphology allows the words to be broken apart even if run together at a very high speech rate. Meanwhile, though, the final vowel of the preceding word serves to buffer the cluster, allowing it to be pronounced as a much easier medial cluster. Thus &amp;quot;le mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the cat&amp;quot;), while officially pronounced /le,MLA,tu/, can be pronounced as /lem,LA,tu/ with no confusion to the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, the buffering sound, IPA [I] (the &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;English &amp;quot;bit&amp;quot;) is explicitly reserved for insertion at any point into a Lojban word where the speaker requires it for ease of pronunciation. The word &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; may be pronounced /mIlatu/ by those who cannot manage &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot;, and nothing else need be changed. This sound is &amp;quot;stripped&amp;quot; by the listener before any further linguistic processing is done.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. Loglan words resemble their English cognates, but unsystematically so. Does this really aid learning, or does it make learning more difficult?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban words are less English-like than prior versions of Loglan, since they were redone using new (1985) data on numbers of speakers. English is now less important in relative terms than Mandarin Chinese, and most Lojban words are fairly equal mixtures of the two languages, with lesser influences from Spanish, Hindi, Russian, and Arabic. The other languages used in 1966 Loglan are no longer as prominent in terms of world-wide number of speakers, and were dropped from the word-making algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no proven claim that the Lojban word-making algorithm has any meaningful correlation with learnability of the words. Brown has reported that informal &#039;engineering tests&#039; were conducted early in the Loglan Project, leading to his selection of the current algorithm, but these tests have never been documented or subjected to review. The Logical Language Group has proposed formal tests of the algorithm, and is instrumenting its software used for teaching vocabulary to allow data to be gathered that will confirm or refute Brown&#039;s hypothesis. Gathering this data may incidentally provide additional insights into the vocabulary learning process, enabling Lojban to serve the additional purpose of being a test bed for research in 2nd language acquisition.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, the word-making algorithm used for Lojban has the clear benefit of ensuring that phonemes occur in the language in rough proportion to their occurrence in the source natural languages, and in patterns and orders that are similar to those in the source languages (thus the first syllable of Lojban gismu most frequently ends in /n/, reflecting the high frequency of syllable ending /n/ in Chinese). The result is a language that is much more pleasant-sounding than, for example, randomly chosen phoneme strings, while having at least some arguable claim to being free of the European cultural bias found in the roots of most other constructed languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. Loglan has an absolutely fixed word order; in some cases, changes of word order are possible, but only by the addition of marker particles. Why is this? No natural language has an absolutely fixed word order (or for that matter, an absolutely free one).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s word order is by no means fixed. In fact, Lojban is only secondarily a &amp;quot;word order&amp;quot; language at all. Primarily, it is a particle language. Using a standard word order allows many of the particles to be &#039;elided&#039; (dropped) in common cases. However, even the standard un- marked word order is by no means fixed; the principal requirement is that at least one argument precede the predicate, but it is perfectly all right for all of the arguments to do so, leading to an SOV word order rather than the canonical SVO (subject-verb-object). VSO order is expressible using only 1 particle. In two-argument predicates, OSV, OVS, and VOS are also possible with only one particle, and various even more scrambled orders (when more than two-place predicates are involved) can also be achieved.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. Loglan does not have WH-questions of the English kind (its questions are fill-in-the-blank) and does not have relative clauses. Therefore, no &amp;quot;unbounded&amp;quot; transformations (in the technical sense) exist in the language. Sentences like &amp;quot;I met a man that John said Mary told George to visit&amp;quot; can be translated only with great pain. How can such fairly common types of constructions be represented better?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have relative clauses, of the Hebrew type; the relative marker and the relative pronoun are distinct. The marker &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; for non-restrictive clauses) always comes at the beginning, but the embedded clause is in normal order, using the relative pronoun &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; at the appropriate location to represent whatever is being elaborated by the clause.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. If Loglan is to be used as an international auxiliary language, it must be culturally neutral. But many of its conceptual distinctions, for example the color set, are clearly biased towards particular languages. There is a word for &#039;brown&#039;, which is a color not used in Chinese (although a word exists, it is rare); on the other hand, there is only one word for &#039;blue&#039;, although Russian- speakers convey the range of English &#039;blue&#039; with two words. How can Loglan be prevented from splintering into dialects which differ in such points?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To some extent, such splitting is inevitable and already exists in natural languages. Some English-speakers may use the color term &#039;aqua&#039; in their idiolect, whereas others lump that color with &#039;blue&#039;, and still others with &#039;green&#039;. Understanding is still possible, perhaps with some effort. The Lojban community will have to work out such problems for itself; there are sufficient clarifying mechanisms to resolve differences in idiolect or style between individuals. The unambiguous syntax and other constraints defined in the language prescription should make such dif- ferences much more easily resolvable than, say, the differences between two dialects of English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The prescriptive phase of Lojban is not intended to solve all problems (especially all semantic problems) but merely to provide enough structure to get a linguistic community started. After that, the language will be allowed to evolve naturally, and will probably creolize a bit in some cultures. (A recent discussion has pointed out that observing the creolization of such a highly prescribed constructed language will undoubtedly reveal much about the nature of the processes involved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
23. Loglan is supposed to be intended as a test of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in its negative form: &amp;quot;structural features of language make a difference in our awareness of the relations between ideas&amp;quot; (Brown). Is this simply another way of saying &amp;quot;Distinctions are more likely to be noticed if structurally marked&amp;quot; (Z)? If so, this is trivially true.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A better paraphrase might be &amp;quot;Unmarked features are more likely to be used, and therefore will tend to constitute the backgrounded features of the language&amp;quot;. By making the unmarked features those which are most unlike natural-lan- guage features, a new set of thought habits will be created (if Sapir-Whorf is true) which will be measurably different from those possessed by non-Lojban speakers. If Sapir- Whorf is false, which is the null hypothesis for Lojban purposes, no such distinctions in thought habits will be detectable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Further elaboration of Loglan Project thinking about Sapir-Whorf has led to another alternate formulation: &amp;quot;The constraints imposed by structural features of language impose corresponding constraints on thought patterns.&amp;quot; In attempting to achieve cultural neutrality, Lojban has been designed to minimize many structural constraints found in natural languages (such as word order, and the structural distinctions between noun, verb, and adjective). If Sapir- Whorf is true, there should be measurable broadening in thought patterns (possibly showing up as increased cre- ativity or ability to see relationships between superficially unlike concepts). Again, the null hypothesis is that no measurable distinction will exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
24. How can &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot; be measured? Measuring facility with predicate logic is not enough to establish &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps not. However, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis tends to be confirmed if experiments show that Lojban-speakers have a greater facility with predicate logic than non- Lojban-speakers. That would indicate that language (natural language) limits thought in ways that Lojban- speakers can bypass. This form of test is not free of its own difficulties, which have been discussed elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Professor Zwicky&#039;s analysis raises several points of concern to linguists who might be interested in the potential use of Lojban for linguistic research. It is believed that sufficient planning and linguistic understanding (and occasionally serendipity) has been incorporated in the Lojban language design process to meet these concerns. Other concerns no doubt exist; it is believed they can similarly be addressed, and that Lojban will prove linguistically viable, as well as useful in our attempts to understand language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, as Lojban has evolved since the 1966 version of Loglan, new features, not analyzed by Zwicky, have been added to the language, further enhancing its potential value. These features, such as Lojban&#039;s expression of the several varieties of natural language negation, the system of attitudinal words for emotional expression, and the discursives used for metalinguistic manipulation and comment on the discourse in progress, raise new questions about the adequacy of Lojban&#039;s design, while providing new opportunities for exploration of the properties of natural language, as well as the correctness of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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In 1991, it is time for linguists to again look at Lojban, with the expectation that new questions, and new respect, will be forthcoming.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== A First Cut at a Linguistic Description of Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are some notes on Loglan/Lojban of possible interest to linguists. It is intended that this discussion is more germane to this audience than our general brochure.  We welcome questions, comments (and yes, criticisms) from the linguistic community on all aspects of the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is a public domain version of Loglan, a constructed language first invented by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1955. Dr. Brown is still working on his version of the language, which has significant flaws and remains proprietary. There is a dispute between Dr. Brown&#039;s group and ours, which has been compared to the Volapk collapse and the Esperanto/Ido split. However, the &#039;splinter&#039; in this case has survived and the Lojban community is growing at the limit of our resources to support it. We recommend that anyone familiar with Loglan but not with Lojban contact us for more detailed information on the situation and comparison between the two versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among the design criteria for Lojban has been particular attention to criticisms of the language presented by linguists over the past three decades. We believe that we have set the Loglan/ Lojban project on an academically sound footing, and are seeking continued input and review comments from linguists as we document the effort. While we are unfunded and have not yet been published in peer- reviewed journals, we expect both conditions to change. We do have linguists actively involved in the design effort itself, most notably Dr. John Parks-Clifford, a professor at University of Missouri at St. Louis researching in tense logic, among other areas, who is Vice President of our group.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language has been demonstrated in conversation, although there are no fluent speakers as of yet. My wife and I and others practice the language in spontaneous conversation perhaps 2 hours a week. Some poetry and other original writings in the language have been produced, though most work has been with translations (from English), most notably Saki&#039;s short story &#039;The Open Window&#039;, which proved especially amenable to translation and exercised areas of the language not often found in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Project was originally started to develop a language for testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. In addition to supporting this goal, Lojban is designed to support other possible experiments in linguistics, including most significantly the expression of emotions, linguistic typology, and language education techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
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With regard to Sapir-Whorf, the formulation we use is that &amp;quot;the structure of a language constrains the thought of the culture using that language&amp;quot;. This formulation relates to grammar as well as semantics, with more design effort being placed on grammatical aspects, presuming that semantics will develop with the formation of a Lojban- speaking subculture, and will, if not overtly biased, serve as one means of examining for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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The main basis for Lojban&#039;s use in Sapir-Whorf research is its grammar, which is based on logical predication. There are also explicit models for easily expressing first- order logical connectives. The strong bias towards logical structuring would be presumed to have a measurably sig- nificant effect on expression, and if our formulation of Sapir-Whorf is valid, on the culture that speaks the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language may show noticeable changes in first- generation Lojban speakers who are native in other languages (indeed, apparent effects have been observed already, though it is uncertain whether these are true Sapir-Whorf effects). A true Sapir-Whorf test will probably involve at-least-2nd generation speakers raised bilingually in Lojban and a natural language, and speakers from a variety of cultures. The need to build numbers of Lojban-speakers in many cultures has led to Loglan/Lojban&#039;s association with the international language movement, although that is not the primary purpose for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other applications, based on Lojban&#039;s unambiguous, computer-parsable syntax, heavily analytical semantics, and intended cultural neutrality, include multi-lingual machine translation using Lojban as an interlingua, use of Lojban as a medium for knowledge representation in computers, and use as a media for human-computer interface. Work in all of these areas is still at an early stage, and naturally will tend to involve different sorts of people than are interested in natural language research questions, although there may be some overlap in trying to use Lojban as a simple model for natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s design does recognize that most natural language usage resembling logical connectives is NOT truly logical. There are grammatical models for non-logical connection built into the language, although these tend to be more highly marked than logical expressions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has systematic structures for logical negation, scalar negation, and metalinguistic negation, each separately expressed. Particular effort has gone into abstraction based on Aristotelian models, a tense/location/aspect system which can analytically express an enormous range of aspects, yet is quite unlike Indo- European forms, systems for metalinguistic expression at a different &#039;level&#039; than normal expression, and a system of analytically based attitudinal indicators (interjections) that include Amerind-like observer-based expressions, modal attitudes, and an enormous range of emotional expression, all grammatically independent from the rest of the language. Lojban also has a system for unambiguous reading of mathematical expressions, which is relatively untested since such expressions are seldom found in normal conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban attempts to achieve cultural neutrality, a necessity for its research goals. This is primarily achieved by minimizing metaphysical assumptions, and wherever assumptions must be made, to be super-inclusive of the range of natural language expressions to minimize at least overt biases. There is also particular militancy in watching for hidden Americanism and English-language biases, since most of the developers and early speakers are native speakers of American English. This is believed to have been generally successful, but is an area that we particularly welcome close cross-examination. Of course, the logical orientation of the grammar is a planned bias, sufficiently extreme that it should overwhelm minor cultural constraints that are missed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Typologically, Lojban is SVO or SOV in its unmarked forms, although all other word orders are expressible with minimal marking. This typing makes a presumption of how to interpret &#039;subject&#039; in Lojban; the Lojban &#039;subject&#039; is perhaps better considered as a &#039;topic&#039;. Lojban has no inherent gender or number, and hence no morphological de- clension or agreement. As a predicate language, Lojban has no distinction between nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, although constructs comparable to each can be identified. Tense/modality/aspect is optional, and can range from simple to enormously complex. There are op- tional &#039;case markings&#039; for the arguments of a predication, but the set of tags is not inherently limited or based on a particular theory of semantic cases. These markings occur in pre-position, but are not really &amp;quot;prepositions&amp;quot;, since they can occur in other contexts. Modification in Lojban is left-to-right, with marked reversal and grouping of modifications possible. Lojban has two modes of possessive/associative expression, both preceding and following a target argument. Postposition modification of arguments includes both relative clauses and relative phrases.&lt;br /&gt;
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While the vocabulary of predicates strictly defines arguments expressed in a prescribed order (generally forcing complex expressions to the end of a sentence along with less frequently stated information), the &#039;case tag&#039; system allows free addition of arguments to a predication, thus minimizing constraints based on the semantics of in- dividual words. Lojban has a system for explicit and implicit ellipsis, and a specified grammar for incomplete or partial sentences to support pragmatic considerations in use of the language. We are especially interested in comments regarding other issues in pragmatics.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Computer Network Discussions on Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: The Sapir/Whorf Hypothesis&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
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jfl@munnari.oz.au (John Lenarcic)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pautler@ils.nwu.edu (David Pautler)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;minakami@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Michael K. Minakami)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;hullp@cogsci.berkeley.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;colin@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Colin Matheson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;wdr@wang.com (William Ricker)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. jfl: Briefly stated, the [Sapir/Whorf] hypothesis is : &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot; Language shapes the way we think, &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and determines what we can think about.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. pautler: (responding to 1.) A professor in pragmatics told me this spring that the theory only claims that a given language forces its users to mentally keep track of certain information like time-of-occurrence, etc. that is needed to make correct decisions about tense, etc. that are required to form sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dtate: (responding to 2.) I think this understates the hypothesis, at least in Whorf&#039;s version. Whorf claimed that, since we think in language, the language in which we think will have enormous impact on the ways in which we think, tending to reinforce certain patterns and undermine others. It could be something as blatant as having the word for &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; being etymologically related to that for &amp;quot;strong&amp;quot;, tending to reinforce &amp;quot;might makes right&amp;quot; thinking, or as subtle as the lack of a socially acceptable passive voice encouraging thinking of one&#039;s self as an agent and not as an object (or, of course, the converse).&lt;br /&gt;
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There is, to be sure, a &amp;quot;chicken and egg&amp;quot; question here: is it the language that shapes the culture, or the culture that shapes the language? The answer (IMHO) [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;] is &amp;quot;both&amp;quot;: the language evolves because of and in accordance with cultural forces, but after a certain point the language develops a momentum of its own, tending to carry the culture in directions already inherent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. minakami: (responding to 2.) I think this is only the weak form of the Whorfian hypothesis. The strong version does assert that the structure and lexicon of a language shapes thought. According to J. R. Anderson: &amp;quot;Whorf felt that such a rich variety of terms would cause the speaker of the language to perceive the world differently from a person who had only a single word for a particular category.&amp;quot; This stronger version of the hypothesis is generally considered disproved by Rosch&#039;s studies of color vision and similar experiments.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. rjohnson: (responding to 2.) There are various versions of the idea around, which can be attributed to von Humboldt, Sapir, Whorf, and their commentators. The idea that language &amp;quot;determines what we can think about&amp;quot; is a very strong version of the hypothesis, probably stronger than Sapir would have liked, maybe stronger than Whorf. These things were not always stated with perfect clarity and consistency, though, so it&#039;s difficult to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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[jfl&#039;s version in 1.] is a slightly odd-sounding version of Whorf&#039;s thesis. It&#039;s hard to say if it&#039;s a good rendering of Whorf into modern terms, but it feels rather reductive to me. At any rate, it&#039;s too narrow: Whorf was concerned with Hopi versus English way of thinking about time in that particular article, but the thesis in general isn&#039;t strictly limited to that. Hopi merely provided (or seemed to provide) a striking illustration of two different ways of thinking. Note that &amp;quot;ways of thinking&amp;quot; is in fact rather sloppy here: Whorf didn&#039;t actually investigate the ways Hopis think about time in any detail at all - he merely projected his feeling about the language onto their thinking. In essence, he assumed the truth of what later commentators saw as a &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot;. To Whorf, it was almost self-evident.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. pautler: (continuation of 2.) I believe the comparison S/W used to illustrate this was the bookkeeping required by a Southwest Native American language (Hopi?) regarding the source or validation of information - evidently there are markers performing the function of &amp;quot;FOAF&amp;quot;, etc. that are as necessary to well-formedness in that language (which does not mark tense) as tense is to English (which does not mark validation). Of course, the Native American language can express time-of-occurrence if need be, just as English can express source-of-information, but neither is explicitly required by the language itself. I believe the traditional example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(~11 Inuit language words for snow) and (~1 English word for snow) ==&amp;gt; (Inuit language and English users think about snow differently)&lt;br /&gt;
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might not be due to S/W and probably misrepresents their idea. But I am not a linguist, nor have I read their work. I just wanted to suggest that applications of S/W may not be what you actually want to look for.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. rjohnson: (responding to 6.) Yes. Whorf, though, not Sapir/Whorf. Whorf, though he had had some training, was basically a gifted amateur; Sapir was less inclined to make sweeping claims - he knew how language has a way of stab- bing such claims in the back.&lt;br /&gt;
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Boas, in fact, in the Introduction to the &amp;quot;Handbook of American Indian Languages&amp;quot; (1911) [introduces the &amp;quot;snow&amp;quot; example]. (At least this is the point at which it was introduced into linguistics.) Geoff Pullum has recently done a fairly comprehensive study of where this idea comes from and how it has mutated into &amp;quot;50 words for snow&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;*100* words for snow,&amp;quot; etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, and I think many other linguists (though not all), have a gut feeling that somewhere, somehow, deep down, there&#039;s a kernel of truth in the idea, but no attempt to frame it as an empirical hypothesis has, to my knowledge, really led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. hullp: (responding to 7.) Actually, several studies have indeed led somewhere. Casagrande&#039;s 1950&#039;s studies demonstrated a so-called Whorfian effect on children&#039;s perception of shape. The comparison was between Navaho speakers (whose language mandates the marking of shape with inflections) and English speakers. There have been a few others (not many, admittedly) that have demonstrated similar effects. The problem is that most of the tests of the hypothesis have been tests of color perception and categorization. Color perception is strongly rooted in physiology and is thus uniform across cultures to a large degree. Any language effects would have to be in a domain for which there is less evidence for a physical basis.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. dmark: (responding to 8.) In fact, Lakoff (in &amp;quot;Women, Fire, ...&amp;quot;) discusses a study by Kay and Kempton that seemed to clearly demonstrate linguistic relativity in color perception. Phillip Hull is correct in pointing out the strong physiological basis of color perception. Thus different color perception due to language seems pretty powerful evidence. (I could describe the experiment, from Lakoff&#039;s account, and/or give the full reference, if people want me to.)&lt;br /&gt;
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10. rjohnson: (responding to 8.) Thanks for this information. I guess I was using &amp;quot;led anywhere&amp;quot; in a somewhat more global sense. That is, I know there have been a smattering of studies that purport to be consistent with (&amp;quot;confirm&amp;quot; is too strong, I think) the S/W hypothesis - but it doesn&#039;t seem that any real coherent picture emerges of &amp;quot;thought&amp;quot; as a whole being strongly affected by &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; as a whole; that is, we have little evidence that &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; effects are of fundamental importance to cognition. Instead we get hints that there may be something there, but the results are mixed and often rather tentative. Does this fit with your perspective on things? (Admittedly, notions like &amp;quot;of fundamental importance&amp;quot; are pretty difficult to assess.)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, as you say, the best-known disconfirming studies suffer from being in the relatively few areas where there probably are reliable hard-wired universals, as in Berlin and Kay&#039;s studies of color terms. In the huge gray area, evidence seems hard to come by. I was briefly involved with a cognitive science team a few years back that was grappling with some of these questions, and it seemed to me that the task of designing experiments was extraordinarily hard - every approach had serious pitfalls. I don&#039;t know how their work turned out, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. colin: (responding to 7.) I agree with your gut feeling. I suppose the trouble is, as with many Linguistic issues, that the &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; of the matter lies at such a level of abstraction that it&#039;s difficult just to talk about it. However, here&#039;s one suggestion of one version of the thesis (count the hedges!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps it&#039;s true that the act of &amp;quot;compressing&amp;quot; abstractions into concepts represented by single lexical items or phrases has a qualitative effect on the kinds of things it is possible to talk about. Thus although it&#039;s probably the case that one can express any particular concept in any language periphrastically, it might just be that the ability to encapsulate things in immediately transferrable units affects the sorts of transfer that are possible. (Where the transfer is of information between humans.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is this version of the Sapir/Whorf stuff part of the original, by the way?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. swsh: (responding to 11.) No, I don&#039;t think so. In my understanding, Whorf and Sapir were not interested so much in what &amp;quot;one can express&amp;quot; in a given language, as in the conceptual categories which underlie grammatical ones and which are used by speakers as a guide to experience. Thus, the important thing in their view is not how many words for snow a language has, but what assumptions about things like space, time, form, substance, etc., are implicit in the language&#039;s grammatical categories. The controversial part about what they, particularly Whorf, said is the thesis that speakers use these assumptions to guide their habitual beliefs and attitudes, and therefore see them as arising directly from reality, rather than projected on to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;Whorfian hypothesis&amp;quot; is often stated as having two forms, a &amp;quot;hard&amp;quot; version (language determines thought) and a &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; version (language and thought are kinda sorta related). From Whorf&#039;s writings, it appears that he himself held views more towards the &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; end of the spec- trum. He shied away from saying there is a &amp;quot;correlation&amp;quot;, that being too definite a word, preferring to say that it could be shown that there are cases where linguistic categories are in some way connected to cultural ones, even if it&#039;s not universally true. However, it seems to me that it would be mighty odd to find a language whose grammar revealed a categorical system that was otherwise unused by speakers, either in individual cognition, or as part of the attendant culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. wdr: (responding to 11.) If I understood that periphrastic version of the hypothesis, I think it has as a corollary that English is not highly suited to it&#039;s own transfer. Which, given the context, I suspect may have been Colin&#039;s point, but if it wasn&#039;t, I&#039;ll suggest it more openly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is a natural language the right language in which to discuss the deficiencies of natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That it was not was one of the original motivations of the Loglan/Lojban successor of Esperanto. Can one of you sci.lang folks translate the S/W hypotheses various statements in this newsgroup lately into Lojban and give us an unbiased account of how manipulable they are in a non- formal yet unnatural language? [ed.: no one has done this yet - any volunteers?]&lt;br /&gt;
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14. pautler: (wrapping up) Perhaps many of you are tiring of the discussion about the claims made by S/W, but I&#039;m going to take the risk of extending the debate:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does the S/W hypothesis suggest that we view a particular language as a collection of tools used to achieve social (communicative, in particular) goals? The analogy I have in mind is this: our ability to achieve tasks is determined by the tools we have at hand, which forces us to think about solving the task primarily in terms of what subtask each tool can achieve. Of course, we can always attempt to invent new tools if they are needed, but invention is difficult for both language conventions and tools, so the analogy still holds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My claim, then, is this: if this is an accurate analogy, then should the S/W hypothesis be any more surprising than a claim that farmers and stockbrokers think differently about the world due to the different means they have of interacting with it?&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Lojban as seen by the linguistics and cognitive science community&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kimba@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Michael Newton)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;harold@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Harold Somers)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;aronsson@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lgorbet@hydra.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daryl@oravax.UUCP (Steven Daryl McCullough)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lee@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Greg Lee)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: (starting the debate - several paragraphs below elucidate his opinions further) I have been acquainted with Lojban for a few years now, and have a few thoughts on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
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My overall impression is that a monumental effort is being made by an astonishingly large group of people, and that while it is quite well-intentioned, its ultimate goals are unattainable at best, and highly suspicious at worst. Some minor and major objections:&lt;br /&gt;
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One: The audio-visual isomorphism. Presumably, this is an attempt to address the rather poor way that some written languages reflect the spoken language (such as English). This fails to predict variations of accent, as well as the language-specific biases of speakers - English speakers for instance will probably continue to mark yes-no questions with a rising tone. Of course this isn&#039;t indicated in the written form, so already the idea of audio-visual isomorphism is weak at best.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. lojbab: (responding to 1.) Yes, English speakers probably will. But Hindi speakers probably won&#039;t. Thus rising tone (pitch) will not be a significant indication in&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban. Now, in the English &#039;dialect&#039; of Lojban, such suprasegmentals will probably be redundant and reinforcing information to the truly significant version of the questioned contained in the words. And if for some other reason, your voice rises in pitch, if there is no &#039;xu&#039;, it is not a yes/no question.&lt;br /&gt;
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As an advantage, I suspect that it will be a lot easier to get computers voice-processing the Lojban phonemes than the English suprasegmentals (Anyone have any actual knowledge on this?)&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dan: (continuation of 1.) Furthermore, the idea of a language that assumes all of its speakers will have precisely the same accent is too terrifying to contemplate, yet Lojban&#039;s writing system would seem to depend on this fact.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. lojbab: (responding to 3.) Lojban&#039;s prescription says nothing about &#039;accent&#039;. Each of the sounds we&#039;ve defined as phonemic has a certain range wherein it is phonemic. Lojban &#039;r&#039; can range from a full trill to a simple flap, for example, and we&#039;ve made no prescription regarding dark &#039;l&#039; vs. light &#039;l&#039;. Difference in these phonemes will result in different &#039;accents&#039;. There will probably be less spread than most natural languages, but there will be some spread.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. cowan: (responding to 3.) Of course [it&#039;s too terrifying to contemplate]! However, this neglects the distinction between &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;etic&amp;quot; features of the language. The claim of audio-visual isomorphism is not that every possible distinction of speech is represented in the written form, but only that all significant distinc- tions are so represented. For example, true-false questions may be signalled (among English speakers) with a rising tone, but also must be signalled with the prefix word &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; carries the entire content, and will be understood by any fluent Lojbanist from whatever back- ground. The tone is superfluous.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. dan: (responding to 5.) If every Lojban speaker were a native English speaker, you could just as easily argue that the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; is superfluous. But this is circular reasoning. Is the purpose of Lojban to be spoken in a dull monotone? Or do you expect the writing system to evolve to account for any variations in tone that might come along? Suppose some third-generation Lojban speakers always mark yes-no questions with a falling tone accompanied by a series of elaborate hand-jives (gestures are expressive too), will you mark this in the written version as well? How do you determine what a &amp;quot;significant&amp;quot; feature of the language is? &lt;br /&gt;
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7. cowan: (responding to 6.) We determine significant features by defining them. Again, this is a constructed language, and a posteriori reasoning appropriate to natural (non-constructed) languages doesn&#039;t necessarily fit all cases.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the baseline version of Lojban, the way of marking a true-false question is to prefix it with &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. This is true by definition, a priori. Once the language is baselined, the normal processes of linguistic change may indeed alter the marking system to something involving tone, gesture, or toe-wiggling. At that time, Lojban will be a natural language (defined here as one having native speakers) and will need to be investigated by the methods of ordinary synchronic linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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(When Bob LeChevalier, the most fluent speaker at present, speaks in the language, he does tend to talk in a monotone, possibly bending over backwards to avoid influence from English suprasegmentals. He does hesitate longer between sentences than at other mandatory pauses, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
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8. lojbab: (responding to 6.) That would be a truly odd purpose for a language - to be spoken in a monotone. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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The writing system would not need recognize variations in pitch, gestures, or any other feature of spoken language unless these came to convey variations in meaning that were not already reflected (and reflectable) in the written lan- guage. In addition, since human-computer interaction using Lojban is intended to be significant in its usefulness, it seems unlikely that there will evolve variations that cannot be easily recognized AND reproduced by a computer listener/speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
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A significant feature of a logical language, of course, is one that affects the truth conditions of its statements. A change or variation in the language would not be &#039;significant&#039; unless it affected such truth conditions. A change which introduced ambiguity would obviously be significant.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. cowan: (continuation of 5.) Note also that audio-visual isomorphism cuts both ways. It ensures not only that every &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; feature of speech is representable in writing, but also that features of text such as paragraphing, structural punctuation, parenthesis, and layout have representations in speech. For example, the word &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; signals a change of subject and is used to separate spoken paragraphs; likewise, non-mathematical parentheses are pronounced &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;(&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;)&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
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10. dan: (continuation of 1., from 3.) TWO: Sapir/Whorf is tacitly assumed by almost everyone that I&#039;ve talked to in connection to Lojban. This isn&#039;t unusual, since it&#039;s also assumed by an astonishing portion of the world at large. &lt;br /&gt;
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11. cowan: (responding to 10.) The Lojban project is founded on assuming the truth of SWH; the falsity of SWH is the null hypothesis. To develop Lojban at all, we must assume SWH. If Lojban turns out to have no effect on thought, i.e. to be a mere code, SWH will not be confirmed. (This is not to say it will be disproved.)&lt;br /&gt;
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12. lojbab: (responding to 10.) Assumed to be what? True? No. Important enough to test? Yes. If Sapir-Whorf is important enough to test, then Lojban must be designed with features that will likely have a noticeable effect, while being sufficiently culturally neutral that non-Lojban variables can be at least statistically removed.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban design HAS to assume that Sapir-Whorf is true, or that design will be meaningless for experimental purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to whether those working on the language &#039;tacitly assume&#039; Sapir-Whorf, I doubt it. There are no doubt many who believe SWH true, and a couple I know of who believe it false, but are willing to see. Most are fairly open- minded. In any case, if we are being &#039;good scientists&#039;, our individual opinions on the hypotheses we investigate shouldn&#039;t matter, since some degree of professional detachment is expected. When I work on Lojban as a researcher, I try to turn off that part of me that does &#039;Lojban promotion&#039; (admittedly a bit more biased). I rely on peer review to catch any biases from my personal views that slip into my work. Given the wide disparity of views among Lojban workers, and our sensitivity towards avoiding unnecessary bias, I&#039;m confident that there is no problem.&lt;br /&gt;
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If Sapir-Whorf (or its equivalent - since a lot of people assume it without even knowing it exists) is tacitly assumed by the world, it seems an especially important question to investigate scientifically. If SWH is used by some to justify racism, some concrete data to attack such use is more effective than personal distaste. Just because a scientific question has political ramifications based on its possible outcomes does not mean that the question shouldn&#039;t be asked, or moreover, shouldn&#039;t be answered.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. dan: (responding to 12.) Yes, I&#039;d say that a surprisingly large number of people when informed about S/W will automatically assume it to be true. The issue to me is one of putting the cart before the horse: to whit, many people have astonishingly racist attitudes about a wide range of phenomena. Language is no exception. If you read the literature of the whole English First movement, one sees thinly veiled racism of the worst sort. Also witness the thinly veiled classism of most of the prescriptivists - the goal is to avoid sounding &amp;quot;low class&amp;quot;. Even something as simple as differing accents within a homogeneous speech community can cause people to raise their eyebrows. Human beings seem to have an overwhelming urge to pigeonhole people by any method possible. What does this have to do with S/W? Well, given that nobody seems particularly satisfied either way with the results of actual psy- cholinguistic tests that have been tried, if someone believes S/W then they can choose to ignore any test results that seem to go against it and start to make some pretty frightening statements.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. dan: (continuation of 1., from 10.) What I&#039;m getting at is that there is a serious danger that people who believe in the S/W hypothesis will use this belief to make claims about their language being superior to someone else&#039;s. The empirical basis for these claims has already been discussed, so I won&#039;t get into it, except to say that I remain unconvinced by the S/W hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. cowan: (responding to 10 and 14.) One of the major workers in Lojban [ed.: pc] believes that SWH is in fact false. There is as diverse a variety of views on SWH in the Lojban community as on any other subject.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. lojbab: (responding to 14.) Yes, there is [a serious danger]. But there is also the chance that if SWH is true, that the reverse will happen. Based on the natural selection paradigm (also perhaps questionable with regard to languages - but the analogy is useful), if one language is &#039;superior&#039; to another in some small area (such as mathematical thinking - as in the previous example), the fact that the other language survives indicates that it also has some compensating advantages that suit its niche.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus Sapir-Whorf might help us see the virtue in all languages and cultures. I certainly don&#039;t think that if Lojban was proved able to assist or improve logical thinking, that it should displace English or any other language. To borrow someone else&#039;s line, Lojban becomes another tool in the linguistic tool chest. You learn it like an English speaker learns French or FORTRAN, to meet a communication need that is not well served by English.&lt;br /&gt;
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17. dan: (responding to 16.) I am told that among anthropologists, S/W in some form, is popular.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. lojbab: (responding to 17.) Indeed. I know that in the Loglan/Lojban community, Reed Riner at Northern Arizona and John Atkins and Carol Eastman at Washington are anthropologists that were/are interested in S/W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, there is another &#039;related field&#039; that makes heavy use of S/W, either directly, or in an evolved form. Semiotics apparently uses a lot of ideas these days that at least tacitly assume some degree of cultural relativity, and I&#039;m told Umberto Eco, is particularly &#039;Whorfian&#039; in his ideas. I don&#039;t know these things directly, having no meaningful exposure to semiotics. My source is Robert Gorsch at St. Mary&#039;s College in CA, who teaches En- glish/Semiotics/Linguistics there. He&#039;s been developing an introductory course in Semiotics showing the evolution of S/W into current semiotics theories (incidentally relying on Esperanto and Lojban as primary examples). We published his course outline and bibliography in a recent issue of our internal journal, Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. dan: (responding to 18.) Eco is interested in a number of theories that are out of vogue among Chomskian linguists. He also seems to have an interest in the so- called &amp;quot;meaning-based&amp;quot; theories of language, posited by people like Schank, in the NLP [natural language processing] community. He devotes some space to Schank&#039;s theory of conceptual dependency in several books (titles forgotten ...sorry!).&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of fields related and unrelated to semiotics also make use of certain Whorfian arguments. Some feminist theorists have an axe to grind about how language is used to oppress women.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. dan: (continuing 17.) To me, the idea of linguistic equality - that all languages are more or less created equal, is a much more egalitarian view. It jibes well with my notion that all people are created equal. This principle forms the basis for much in the way of my political views. I don&#039;t want to get into a debate here about the politics of language, but it&#039;s something I feel very strongly about.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. lgorbet: (responding to 20.) The phrase in Dan&#039;s recent posts that confuses me a lot is &amp;quot;all languages are equal&amp;quot;. So far as I can see that may well - probably has nothing to do with whether (some version or other of) S/W is true or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect the most common belief of linguists who think about S/W at all is that (a) S/W is true; and (b) all languages are &amp;quot;equal&amp;quot;. AND you seem to be assuming that the truth of S/W entails inequality (in some unstated sense) of languages. All S/W says, even in the strongest versions I know anyone competent who believes, is that lan- guages are different in ways that leads their speakers to tend to think differently.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks to work by lots of folk over the past half century (oops, more than that), it&#039;s pretty clear that different languages have lots in common as well as some striking differences. So probably most of us (my wild supposition, I admit) think that the impact of a true S/W would not be all that huge a difference. But a difference in conceptualization and knowledge is not the same thing as inequality.&lt;br /&gt;
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It almost seems to me that to assume that different ways of thinking are unequal ways of thinking plays into the hands of racists even more...&lt;br /&gt;
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This is NOT a flame. You raise some important issues, many of which I agree with, especially about the ways our work can get abused by those with an unsavory agenda.&lt;br /&gt;
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[The discussion of Sapir-Whorf and its possible racist use continued for quite a while, and is omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
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22. dan (continuation of 1., from 14.): This empirical basis is something that I use as a foundation for my personal ideological beliefs with regard to such issues as English-only laws and prescriptivism (by the likes of Safire, Lederle, Simon et al.). It seems to me that the Lojbanists, who are already claiming that the language makes them think more clearly on certain things are setting themselves up for a type of elitism that I find frightening.&lt;br /&gt;
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THREE: Lojban&#039;s allegedly unambiguous syntax. The bottom line is that &amp;quot;plastic cat food can cover&amp;quot; is still ambiguous in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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23. cowan: (responding to 22.) This English utterance is ambiguous in three different ways. Syntactically, it might be a noun phrase (a kind of cover) or a sentence (asserting that plastic cat food is capable of covering something). Lojban does not have this kind of ambiguity: the first would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; and the second would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja ka&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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24. harold: (responding to 23.) Well, I think you&#039;ll find that syntactically the phrase is MUCH more ambiguous: as a noun phrase, ignoring the semantic ambiguity of any noun+noun pairing (e.g. &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; = food for cats, food made of cats, food which looks like a cat; &amp;quot;can cover&amp;quot; = cover for a can, cover made out of a can; &amp;quot;plastic cat&amp;quot; = cat made out of plastic, cat which behaves like plastic, cat which belongs to plastic, etc) it has readings [numbers added for later cross-reference]:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for plastic cat food cans i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for cans which contain plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
1 a cover for cans which contain food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
2 a cover for cans which contain plastic food for cats or&lt;br /&gt;
3 a cover for plastic cans which contain cat food or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a can cover for plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
4 a can cover for food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
5 a can cover for plastic food for cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a food can cover for plastic cats i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
6 a cover for a food can for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
7 a can cover for food for plastic cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a cat food can cover made of plastic i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover, made of plastic, for cat food cans i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
8 a cover, made of plastic, for cans for cat food or&lt;br /&gt;
9 a cover, made of plastic, for food cans for cats&lt;br /&gt;
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25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Let me render each of these forms into Lojban. As a glossary, slasi &#039;plastic&#039;, mlatu &#039;cat&#039;, cidja &#039;food&#039;, lante &#039;can&#039;, and gacri &#039;cover&#039; take care of all the content words, each of which (luckily for me) has a single-word Lojban equivalent. I will comment on the function words I use as I use them.&lt;br /&gt;
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It should be stated from the start that Lojban interprets dyadic compounds as &amp;lt;modifier&amp;gt; followed by &amp;lt;modificand&amp;gt;, in other words AN [adjective-noun order], although this can be changed with the particle &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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[numbers relate back to English in 24.]&lt;br /&gt;
1) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. This form is totally unmarked, and has the meaning of the English 1) because Lojban associates left-to-right. In other words, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
2) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. The function word &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; causes the two content words surrounding it to be most closely associated. So &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;. Otherwise, left-to-right modification remains intact, so that &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
3) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here we make two coordinated claims about the &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, namely that it is of type &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; (a cat-food can) and that it is &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; (plastic). So we insert the particle &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; which means this type of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;. (There are several Lojban words for &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is the one that&#039;s grammatical in this context).&lt;br /&gt;
4) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot; are grouped, so that &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (food for plastic cats) modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot; (can-type-of cover).&lt;br /&gt;
5) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here we have three components grouped in left-to-right order: &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Therefore &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, making this a plastic cat-food type of can-cover.&lt;br /&gt;
6) &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here again we have three components, but different ones from those appearing in 5).&lt;br /&gt;
8) &amp;quot;slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;. Here we introduce the new particles &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot;. These group in the same way that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; does, but everything between &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; is grouped. Wherever &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears between two words, it can be replaced by &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; before the first and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; after the second. So 4) can be rewritten as &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja ke lante gacri&amp;quot;, with elision of &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at the end of the phrase. This is an example of a general point about Lojban: most things are expressible using both &amp;quot;forethought&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;afterthought&amp;quot; forms, comparable to the difference in English between &amp;quot;both A and B&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;A and B&amp;quot;. In this case, we need the whole of &amp;quot;mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; to group as one modifier, so &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not usable. We also need &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; because again two claims are being made, that the cover is both plastic and for cat-food cans.&lt;br /&gt;
9) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; serves us again, in contradistinction to 8), because of an additional rule that comes into play when &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears on both sides of an element: it is right-grouping. So whereas &amp;quot;A B C&amp;quot; means that &amp;quot;A B&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;C&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;A bo B bo C&amp;quot; means that A modifies &amp;quot;B bo C&amp;quot;. So here we claim that the cover is both plastic and is of type &amp;quot;cat food-can&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are other ways to express these ideas if the constraint on ordering the content words is relaxed. There are also lots of other possibilities expressible by the Lojban syntax, such as &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu bo cidja bo lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, which might be a plastic type of food-can cover for use by cats. In addition, &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; (and) can be replaced by &amp;quot;ja&amp;quot; (inclusive or) or &amp;quot;jonai&amp;quot; (exclusive or) or any of the other Boolean relationship, or by various non-logical connectives such as &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; (mass mixture): &amp;quot;slasi joi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; would be food made from plastic and from cats [mixed together].&lt;br /&gt;
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26. cowan: (continuing 23.) In the English utterance, it is unclear exactly what modifies what.&lt;br /&gt;
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27. harold: (responding to 26., continuing 24.) I don&#039;t think so. Of the above interpretations, there is a more or less clear ranking of preference, notwithstanding some context which promotes an unusual reading (e.g. a story about plastic cats): I find (8) the most plausible, with (3) next best. The least plausible are the ones involving plastic cats or plastic food.&lt;br /&gt;
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28. cowan: (continuing 23., from 26.) So Lojban&#039;s unmarked form is grouped left-to-right unambiguously, and other groupings can be unambiguously marked by the insertion of appropriate structure words.&lt;br /&gt;
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29. harold: (responding to 28., continuing 27.) It is relatively easy to construct plausible noun phrases consisting of five consecutive nouns for all the above patterns, just by substituting more appropriate nouns: e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  1 tabby cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  2 soya-bean cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  3 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
  4 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  5 =2&lt;br /&gt;
  6 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  7 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  8 (preferred reading)&lt;br /&gt;
  9 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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And of course, we can construct longer sequences of noun phrases, with even larger numbers of ambiguities.&lt;br /&gt;
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Can Lojban handle all of these, and, more important, would we want a language to do so? The point is that most of the readings are implausible for semantic reasons, but all (or most) groupings are possible, given the appropriate words. The same thing happens with PP attachment by the way. The problem is that you cannot tell a priori which grouping will be plausible: NLP [natural language processing] programs have to try all possible groupings and then test them for semantic coherence, a terrible waste of effort with big noun phrases or sequences of ambiguous words like:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gas pump prices rose last time oil stocks fell&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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in each word is at least two-ways ambiguous (all are both nouns and verbs, and some are also adjectives).&lt;br /&gt;
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30. aronsson: (responding to 28.) What if the intended grouping was &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can)) type of cover&amp;quot;? That is a plastic cover for these cans (which are probably made of tin - I would consider this more probable) rather than a generic cover for these plastic cans. Would the sentence still translate into &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;? Could the same sentence also mean &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot;? (Never mind why anybody would make plastic food - that is semantics!) If any of the above, Lojban must be considered ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
31. cowan: (responding to 30.) No. &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; are logical parentheses. &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover)&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; because &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; has higher precedence than concatenation, though lower than &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
32. aronsson: (continuing 30.) Or what if both modifiers have a more complex form? In the example above, the modifier plastic has the simplest possible form, but consider a phrase like (I wrote this with Emacs LISP mode!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
 ((some-special type of plastic)                           &lt;br /&gt;
  and                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  (((cat or	dog)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
    type of	food)                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      type of can))                                        &lt;br /&gt;
type of cover                                              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, parenthesis are needed not only for the general grouping, but also to unambiguously determine the precedence of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot;! IMHO [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;], there are exactly two ways of designing a ambiguous-free language, none of which will make it look like any human language: 1) Using parenthesis as in LISP [see examples above] and 2) Using only very short sentences as in ordinary computer machine language. In case 2, the example would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Cover.                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  for      can.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Can    for      food.                                    &lt;br /&gt;
  Food   for      cat.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  made of  plastic.                                 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
33. cowan: (responding to 32.) The first method (parenthesis) is employed, using &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; parenthesis marks as needed. This is not supposed to &amp;quot;look like any natural language&amp;quot;; this is precisely the area where Lojban differs from all natural languages, and constitutes the evidence that Lojban is not an &amp;quot;{English, Chinese, etc.}- based code&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;And&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot; have the same precedence and are left associative; simple concatenation is also left associative, whereas &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; (which semantically is the same as concatenation, i.e. undefined) is high-precedence and right associative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
34. cowan: (continuing 23., from 28.) On a third level, a phrase like &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; is ambiguous semantically. Is it food for cats or food consisting of cats? Here Lojban really is ambiguous, but the ambiguity is semantic not syntactic. The three main kinds of ambiguity in Lojban (this kind, ellipsis, and the ambiguity of names (which Sam?)) are all semantic in nature. As in any natural language, any of these ambiguities can be &amp;quot;expanded&amp;quot; on the semantic level by adding more information: &amp;quot;lo mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (a cat type of food) could become &amp;quot;da poi cidja loi mlatu&amp;quot; (something which is-food-for the-mass-of cats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
35. dan: (responding to 34.) Semantic ambiguity is present all over the place. How does Lojban handle issues like quantifier scope ambiguity? In English, a sentence like &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; is ambiguous. If Lojban merely paraphrases such utterances, to two separate utterances along the lines of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;For all x, There exists a y such that x loves y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;There exists a y for all x such that x loves y&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
while tolerating some version of the original utterance, than nothing has been accomplished. I can do the same thing in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
36. cowan: (responding to 35.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Lojban has mechanisms for setting quantifier scopes, involving explicit quantifiers appearing in a prenex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Loglan/Lojban has never claimed to be free of semantic ambiguity. Your original objection 3 [see 22. above] (refers to &amp;quot;allegedly unambiguous syntax&amp;quot;, but on investigation your objections are to semantic rather than syntactic ambiguity. Our claims are: a) Lojban is free of phonological, morphological, and syntactic ambiguity, and b) Lojban semantic ambiguity is present only in clearly marked places within the language: a Lojbanist knows when he/she is using an ambiguous form, and can replace it as needed with unambiguous ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
37. lojbab: (responding to 35.) I disagree [with dan]. For one thing, if Lojban can express the multiple meanings better and more clearly than English, and if the expressions can be more easily manipulated logically, this would presumably &#039;enhance logical thinking&#039; if SWH is true.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban doesn&#039;t &#039;tolerate some version of the original&#039; in the sense that the parallel translation to &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot; is not equivalent to both English paraphrases. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
38. dan: (responding to 37.) So what&#039;s the gloss of the Lojban sentence? Which reading does it correspond to? Is there a quick and easy way to disambiguate?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
39. cowan: (responding to 38.) The Lojban rule is that quantifiers are applied in the order in which they appear in the sentence, so &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all man love one fish&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;For all men X, there exists one fish Y, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; The other interpretation could be given by &amp;quot;converting&amp;quot; the predicate with the particle &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. This operation reverses the order of the arguments to a predicate. &amp;quot;pa finpe se prami ro nanmu&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one fish be-loved-by all man&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;There exists one fish Y, for all men X, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; Note that conversion is analogous to the passive voice but has no semantic significance other than this inversion of quantifiers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has machinery for expressing the quantifiers externally in a prenex, terminated by the word &amp;quot;zo&#039;u&amp;quot;. So another set of Lojban paraphrases for your sentences above is &amp;quot;ro da poi nanmu pa de poi finpe zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all X which is-a-man, one Y which is-a-fish, X loves Y&amp;quot;; and &amp;quot;pa de poi finpe ro da poi nanmu zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one Y which is-a-fish, all X which is-a-man, X loves Y&amp;quot;. Presumably, a transformational grammar of Lojban would derive both of these surface structures (with and without prenex) from the same underlying deep structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What Lojban does not have is any sentence which means both of your two forms ambiguously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
40. lojbab: (continuation of 37, in response to 35.) You cannot &#039;do the same thing in English&#039;. Even if the two English paraphrases are considered &#039;standard English&#039; (and many linguists do not, identifying them as a jargon), neither is the same as Dan&#039;s original. Fill in &#039;man&#039; for &#039;x&#039; and &#039;fish&#039; for &#039;y&#039;, and the result is ungrammatical:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;For all man, there exists a fish such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;There exists a fish for all man such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It takes some extensive manipulations to turn these into grammatical sentences, and the results are not &#039;obviously&#039; the same as the English original. These same manipulations do not suffice for all possible substitutions: if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;fish&#039;, or if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;Mary&#039;, you have to perform different transforms. In Lojban, the transforms are independent of the value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
41. aronsson: (responding to 34.) I fail to see the difference. When designing an artificial language one could outlaw all use of modifiers without modifier indicators (prepositions or similar). Thus it would have been possible for the Lojban designers to make &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; illegal, only allowing &amp;quot;food for cats&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;food made-of cats&amp;quot;. If they did not do this, they obviously failed to design an ambiguity-free language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
42. cowan: (responding to 41.) We didn&#039;t want to make the language semantically unambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) The language is phonologically, morphologically, and syntactically unambiguous; and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) the language is semantically ambiguous only in specified areas, of which this is one (making open com- pounds by concatenation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
43. dan: (continuation of 1., from 22.) Natural languages are not unambiguous. From the acquisition side, ambiguous languages are much easier to learn for a child than a logical language would be. The principles of Universal Grammar [UG] do not seem to produce unambiguous languages, and all natural languages are constructed according to the principles of UG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
44. cowan: (responding to 43.) A lot of unproven assumptions here. Common assumptions, yes, but still unproven. We simply don&#039;t know whether a child could become competent in Lojban. Maybe when the language is complete and documented, somebody will be inspired to start raising bilingual children. There are native speakers of Esperanto, after all, whose parents have no other language in common. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
45. kimba: (responding to 43.) If you&#039;re going to get stuck into people for assuming Sapir/ Whorf, I think you had better not be so blase about assuming the existence of &amp;quot;the principles of UG&amp;quot;. The way you throw it in &amp;quot;jargonwise&amp;quot; I assume you mean the Chomskian notion, which will meet with plenty of disagreement. I suppose you could claim to mean any statements about properties which all/no languages have, but then the 2nd clause is vacuous. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
46. dan: (responding to 45.) I do tacitly assume UG. To me, it seems a whole lot easier to swallow than SW, or other theories of linguistic relativism. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
47. dtate: (responding to 46.) What a strange comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as I can tell, UG (as a hypothesis about language) and SW (as a hypothesis about language and thought) are independent. Buying into UG wouldn&#039;t make me more or less apt to buy into S/W, nor vice versa. They&#039;re certainly not competing theories. They address totally different topics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think the giveaway here is the phrase &amp;quot;linguistic relativism&amp;quot;. I can&#039;t tell from context exactly what Dan means by this. It looks like the link is something like &amp;quot;S/W says that how you think is influenced by what language you think in; UG says there&#039;s an underlying deep structure common to all languages; conflict&amp;quot;. But of course there is no conflict; every language has its own grammatical and etymological idiosyncrasies, whether deep structure exists or not, and these idiosyncrasies are the fuel for S/W. The existence of deep structure cannot refute the fact that languages differ in significant ways, any more than a proof of S/W would disprove the existence of deep structure common to all languages. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
48. lojbab: (responding to 43.) Whether UG is &#039;real&#039;, a question better discussed by others, I know of no useful evidence for the claim [that UG forbids unambiguous languages]. That there is no unambiguous language today is irrelevant, since nearly all languages evolved from some earlier language, interacting with other languages, etc. Most sources of ambiguity probably can be tied to these evolutionary processes. Lojban might also succumb to such ambiguity, but as an a priori language constructed after the printing press, having (unlike other languages) a complete prescription it has a lot better likelihood of re- sistance to &#039;undesirable&#039; change. There is no way to tell if the misuse of &#039;hopefully&#039; or split infinitives would have entered English if a) there had not already been a tolerance in English for non-standard usages of this type and b) either of these truly resulted in mis-communication. Note that &#039;misplaced modifiers&#039;, which can in some instances cause miscommunication, are a different question, and are probably frowned on by most speakers IF they become aware of the ambiguity. In Lojban, of course, the speaker WILL be more aware of the ambiguity - at least so we hope.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
49. dan: (continuation of 1., from 43.) In the unlikely event that a native Lojban speaker ever exists, it will probably actually be speaking its parent native language with some version of Lojban vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
50. cowan: (responding to 49.) I presume you mean &amp;quot;parents&#039; native language&amp;quot;. As I mentioned above, its parents might not have the same native language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
51. dan: (continuation of 1., from 49.) But even that is unlikely since even the phonology (like everything else in the language) is arbitrary, and it is questionable how easy it would be for a child to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52. rjohnson: (responding to 51.) Isn&#039;t the phonology of any language arbitrary in this sense? No language avails itself of all the possibilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
53. dan: (responding to 52.) Yes, but certain combinations are unlikely to occur.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
54. cowan: (responding to 53.) I don&#039;t understand this claim. The phonology is the least arbitrary thing about the language. Lojban has six vowels and 18 consonants, all of which are exceedingly familiar and found in many languages world-wide: German, for example, has all of them (although Lojban &#039;j&#039; is rare in German and found mostly in borrowings from French). On the suprasegmental level, Lojban has two levels of stress (primary and weak) and significant pauses; where &amp;quot;pause&amp;quot; may represent either a complete silence or a glottal stop. Tone is not signifi- cant, as mentioned above. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
55. dan: (responding to 54.) See what I mean about arbitrary? The Lojban engineers have decided that tone isn&#039;t important and that pauses are the same as glottal stops. This is lunacy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
56. rjohnson: (responding to 54. and 55, also 1.-8.) By the way, both of you [cowan and dan] are abusing the term &amp;quot;tone&amp;quot;. You&#039;re talking about pitch. Tone, by definition, involves significant pitch contrasts. You can&#039;t have tone be unimportant in a language. If morphemes are systemati- cally contrastive in pitch, the language has tone; if not, there is no tone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
57. dan: (responding to 56.) Guilty as charged. Sorry about that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
58. cowan: (responding to 56.) Thanks for this correction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
59. cowan: (responding to 55.) Of course it&#039;s arbitrary in the sense that we select some features of the total human phonological repertoire and not others, but so does every natural language. The phonemes we use are found in many natural languages, and there exists at least one natural language (viz. German) that contains all of them. The consonant clusters and diphthongs we use are also all to be found in natural languages. We go to some pains to prevent&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
difficult clusters like *td or *fz; we also limit which consonant clusters can be used initially to a subset.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pauses and glottal stops are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in Lojban in the sense that they are allophones. In German, the phones [r] and [R] are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in exactly the same sense: they are allophones of /r/ in free variation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
60. lojbab: (responding to 55.) Tone is reflected poorly or not-at-all in writing systems of the world, as is pitch and speech rhythm. Audio-visual isomorphism therefore precluded these being critical to disambiguation and we chose better ways to convey the equivalent meanings. In each case where we did so, a similar mechanism is found in some natural languages. For example, in French &amp;quot;est-ce que&amp;quot; almost exactly parallels Lojban &#039;xu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
61. dan: (responding to 60.) Which is one of the many reasons that linguists concentrate on spoken language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
62. lojbab: (continuation of 60.) Pause in Lojban is used only to preserve morphological distinctions. For example, you must pause before a [word-initial] vowel to protect against it being absorbed into the previous word either as a final vowel in a consonant-final word or as a diphthong. A glottal stop provides similar separation of sounds; hence it is phonemically equivalent to a pause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In neither case was the decision arbitrary; we had a good reason for each. This is in general true throughout Lojban - a decision to choose one form over many was primarily to achieve unambiguity. In other circumstances, we chose the least restrictive form possible (thus making tense, number, gender, etc. optional and hence more highly marked forms).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
63. dan: (continuation of 1., from 51.) In typically blundering fashion, the Lojban engineers have ignored this issue, concentrating entirely on the learnability issue for SECOND language acquisition, that is, adults learning a second language, with no native competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
64. cowan: (responding to 63.) (You raise an interesting side issue here. Do you argue a priori that persons learning a language as adults cannot achieve competence which is empirically indistinguishable from that of native speakers?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
65. dan: (responding to 64.) I guess I do. A Native French speaker might learn English well enough to be indistinguishable from a native English speaker, but he or she will not have native competence. In other words, you cannot ask that speaker a question regarding something like say, contraction and get a truthful answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
66. daj: (responding to 65.) Even worse, you would never be able to use this speaker as a guinea pig in a SWH test, since he would be a native speaker of two languages, so his perception of the world would be conditioned by both. This would be true for any bilingual speaker, it seems to me. So you&#039;ll never be able to test the SWH until you have a &amp;quot;pure strain&amp;quot; of Lojban speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
67. cowan: (responding to 66.) Some Lojbanists agree, and say we will need to wait for a second generation. Another viewpoint is that by having people who speak Lojban+English, Lojban+French, Lojban+Vietnamese, Lojban+Navajo, etc. etc. we will be able to factor out the Lojban contribution when compared with people bilingual in two natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&amp;quot;Bilingual&amp;quot; here means &amp;quot;bilingual within the acquisition period&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
68. dan: (continuation of 65.) E.g. In English, one can contract words like &amp;quot;he&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;is&amp;quot;, but only in particular circumstances. Hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  He&#039;s a nice boy&lt;br /&gt;
  Isn&#039;t he a nice boy?/* yes, he&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The starred sentence is ungrammatical, the contraction is not acceptable in that position. It is acceptable in the first sentence. A native French speaker who knows English might be able to guess on that, but he or she certainly would NOT have a reliable intuition on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
69. rjohnson: (responding to 68.) I have to agree with Dan here, sort of. I don&#039;t think the distinction to be made is between L1 and L2 competence, though, but between critical- period learning and post-critical-period (or &amp;quot;adult&amp;quot;) learning. I think it&#039;s pretty clear that they&#039;re two different processes (though of course they may share some features). An adult learner may indeed learn a language well-enough to pass an operationalist sort of test (i.e., be indistinguishable from a native speaker), but shouldn&#039;t be taken as a reliable judge of grammaticalness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
70. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 64.) We know that the phonology is learnable by children, because it is a subset of phonologies which children can and do learn. We have every reason to believe that the vocabulary is learnable: the words are similar in morphology to those existing in natural languages, and the consonant clusters and diphthongs are all to be found in natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
71. dan: (responding to 70.) Yes, but if there is a theory of phonological universals, then it is argued that certain combinations simply won&#039;t ever occur. Did the Lojban engineers take this into account, accept at the most rudimentary level? I doubt it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
72. cowan: (responding to 71.) What do you call &amp;quot;rudimentary&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Brief summary of Lojban phonology omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rules are arbitrary, yes, but I should like to be shown wherein they are unlearnable. Furthermore, they need to be known only to people inventing new words: several of them are relaxed for borrowings and names.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
73. lojbab: (responding to 71.) An interesting conditional, that first sentence. Is Dan claiming that there is a theory or not? Is he claiming that certain combinations won&#039;t occur? He seems to be claiming that Lojban has combinations that cannot occur but gives no examples. He&#039;ll have trouble finding them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We did indeed take phonological universals into account in several ways. In the first place, as John Cowan mentions, the set of permitted sounds was selected as a subset of those found in many languages. We constrained consonant clusters by restrictive rules that recognize phonological properties like voiced/voiceless assimilation and included redundancy as a criteria in assigning words, reducing the number of minimal pairs distinctions. We added the apostrophe to prevent unwanted diphthongization; it represents devoicing of the glide between two adjacent vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, the frequency of sounds in predicate words should statistically parallel the sum of the corresponding frequencies in our six source languages. (For those unfamiliar, most of Lojban&#039;s predicate root words are formed by maximizing the appearance of phoneme patterns found in those source languages weighted by approximate number of speakers.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would say that more time has been spent overall during Loglan/Lojban&#039;s history on the interaction between phonology and morphology than on any other single feature of the language. This is probably because it is the best documented feature of the design and also the most easily compared to other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
74. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 70.) What we don&#039;t know is whether the grammar is learnable by a child. We won&#039;t know that until the experiment is tried, first by raising a bilingual or trilingual child, and then eventu- ally as part of a community of monolingual speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
75. lojbab: (responding to 63.) We&#039;ve hardly ignored the question [of learnability by children]. However, from what I&#039;ve read, children learn languages from adult role models. We need adult fluent speakers therefore in order to teach children. Within the next two decades at least, all such adults will be 2nd language speakers. So why not concentrate now on what we can do something about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
76. dan: (responding to 75.) My point from my first posting on has been that I can&#039;t imagine any child being able to acquire something as baroque as Lojban in its current form. My understanding of acquisition is that non- ambiguity is sacrificed in favor of learnability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
77. cowan: (responding to 76.) Maybe so. After all, the English my daughter spoke at the age of two was hardly &amp;quot;acceptable&amp;quot; as a full adult English, although now (at three) her English is clearly acceptable (she seems to be a bit in advance of her age-mates in this respect). There is no reason to think that a Lojban-speaking child would be different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In one respect, some of the simpler Lojban constructions like observatives (bare predicators without arguments) are more analogous to young-child linguistic forms. The English utterance &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; is a bit deviant, in that English- speakers would think it rather odd for an adult to say simply &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; on seeing a dog, but for a child this utterance would be quite acceptable. The exact Lojban translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot;, on the other hand, is fully grammatical and not at all deviant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
78. lojbab: (responding to 76.) Baroque? Compared to natural languages, Lojban is incredibly simple, and children acquire natural languages (else they would not be &#039;natural&#039;). Now whether Lojban will be seen as simple to a child is a valid question, but there is no reason to believe otherwise, and we&#039;ll know soon enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can non-ambiguity be sacrificed in favor of learnability in natural languages acquisition? They aren&#039;t unambiguous in the first place. To whatever extent there IS unambiguity, the sheer complexity and irregularity of most of the language would overwhelm this. Lojban, being so much simpler to express unambiguously, MIGHT be able to be acquired unambiguously or at least relatively so (with the child growing into more accurate usage with age and understanding just as children of the natural languages do).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
79. dan: (responding to 78.) I was suggesting that ambiguous languages are easier to learn than unambiguous ones. There aren&#039;t any unambiguous natural languages that I know of, so it&#039;s difficult to test this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An unambiguous language would require enough additional baggage, that it would make learning it unwieldy. An ambiguous language has fewer rules. And just for the record, let&#039;s get things straight with regard to our definition of &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot;. By rules, I mean rules that are used to characterize the language, not rules in the pre- scriptive sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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The average child learns his or her language (barring language disorders or highly unusual circumstances) quite rapidly, ambiguity and all.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to whether Lojban is baroque or not, the question is this: If there were hypothetical native speakers of Lojban, how complicated would an abstract characterization of their competence be? If such an abstract characterization were more complicated than a similar characterization of say, Klammath, then I would stand by my assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, one might beg the question and ask whether such abstractions are meaningful at all (as the Schankians do), but that&#039;s a whole other ball o&#039; wax (quite interesting too).&lt;br /&gt;
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80. lee: (responding to 76.) The discussion of irregularity might profit from distinguishing types of irregularity:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# semantic irregularity - no one-to-one correspondence between form and meaning, as for example when phonological changes produce variations in the form of a stem;&lt;br /&gt;
# morphological irregularity - no uniform way of deriving related words, as in the examples of archaic paradigms;&lt;br /&gt;
# distributional irregularity - certain combinations of forms (or features) are not permitted, for instance when obligatory phonological changes eliminate some phone(me) combinations;&lt;br /&gt;
# form class irregularity - it is not possible to distinguish forms or their categories directly from their pronunciation, as when a phonological change is extended from word-internal to cross word boundaries, making it more difficult to tell where words begin and end.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then it&#039;s interesting to catalog the various ways that changes which remedy one sort of irregularity may create others.&lt;br /&gt;
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81. lojbab: (responding to 80.) Each of these has a corresponding &#039;ambiguity&#039;, as well, in which various degrees of inconsistency and inconstancy exist in the rules for building and interpreting forms of each of these types. Lojban has defined regularity and unambiguity in the last three. We can expect to directly observe the causes and effects that result in changes in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
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82. lojbab: (continuation of 75., responding to 63.) There are several Lojbanists that have indicated intent to try to raise their children as bilingual Lojban/natural-language speakers, probably the best that can and should be attempted until/unless Lojban proves its value. I cer- tainly wouldn&#039;t ask anyone to raise children solely Lojban- speaking; it would smack of human-experimentation to me (an issue I&#039;m fairly sensitive on).&lt;br /&gt;
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83. dan: Some Lojban propaganda claims that the language has been characterized by a transformational grammar, but this has never actually been demonstrated, and seems quite unlikely, since I would imagine that a native speaker would be required to characterize a Lojban-user&#039;s competence. Since there probably will never BE a native Lojban speaker, how can you possibly ask one whether XXXX is an allowable sentence or word of his or her language? Current Lojban speakers are of no use, because they do not have such intu- itions about the language any more than a fluent second- language speaker of French (a French speaker whose native language is say Hindi) would have such intuitions about French.&lt;br /&gt;
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84. cowan: (responding to 83.) This illustrates a confusion between natural and constructed languages. In a natural language, the source of competence is the native speaker&#039;s intuition. In a constructed language, during the construction phase (which Lojban is still in, though rapidly coming to the end of it), competence is defined by the constructor. A grammatical Lojban sentence is what we say it is, where &amp;quot;what we say&amp;quot; is defined by the baselined vocabulary lists and machine grammar. The reference for syntactic correctness is a parsing program, and when a Loj- banist utters something the program can&#039;t parse, we say that he has made an &amp;quot;error&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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85. dan: (responding to 84.) Once again, completely arbitrary. In English, or any other natural language, grammaticalness is also defined by what we can say and understand. &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is perfectly grammatical, because people use and understand it all the time. Only English teachers and guys like John Simon sit around and contemplate (by their own arbitrary standards) whether or not it&#039;s okay to split infinitives and use &amp;quot;hopefully&amp;quot; right. The rest of us just do it.&lt;br /&gt;
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86. cowan: (responding to 85.) Correct, and therefore for a natural language like English, the only way to determine the grammar is by {in,intro}spection. But this has nothing to do with the grammar being in transformational form, i.e. a set of PS rules generating a deep structure with a set of T rules generating the surface structure from them. Such a grammar has not been fully worked out for Lojban, but is clearly not impossible in principle. It also happens to be the case that PS rules are sufficient to generate the whole of the language&#039;s surface structure all by themselves (probably not true of English), although the PS-only version of the grammar which we have now baselined does not explain semantic equivalences of different structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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87. cowan: (continuation of 84.) But this will not always be so. When the language is fully defined and baselined, it will be &amp;quot;launched&amp;quot; and the normal processes of linguistic change will be allowed to operate. We expect that some grammatical forms, vocabulary items, etc. will be &amp;quot;pruned&amp;quot; because nobody uses them. They will remain in the formal language definition, available to all speakers in the same sort of way that archaic grammar or vocabulary forms are available to speakers of natural languages: viz. if they take the trouble to look them up. At that time it will be appropriate to consult human speakers (and AI programs, if any) to investigate correct linguistic behavior a posteriori.&lt;br /&gt;
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88. dan: (responding to 87.) Org! What a mess! &amp;quot;Correct&amp;quot; linguistic behavior? Lojban will be a linguistic battlefield with prescriptivists running around telling people that they can&#039;t say such-and-such a sentence, because it can&#039;t be parsed by Lojban&#039;s computationally sound grammar (verified by a genuine computer!).&lt;br /&gt;
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89. cowan: (responding to 88.) Don&#039;t be silly. Of course Lojbanists can do that if they want to, just as speakers of English and other languages can if they want to. Again, you are ignoring the difference between a language that is born a priori and one that isn&#039;t. After the language is delivered from the womb, anything can and quite probably will happen in the way of changes, which will not be dictated from above.&lt;br /&gt;
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90. lojbab: (responding to 85.) Not true for English, really, nor for all natural languages. English is of course not even a single language in the sense that there are many dialects spoken around the world [not all 100% mutually understandable]. Many of these do not use constructs found in the &#039;standard language&#039;, even though they are obviously understood by their listeners. But how could we say this if we didn&#039;t have a concept of what the &#039;standard language&#039; is, which is distinct from what we say and understand. (Of course, the definition of standard language varies from country to country, too. British speakers would even less accept some of Dan&#039;s Americanisms, and in some cases might misunderstand them. (Actually, there is some variation among &#039;standard Englishes&#039;, as well, as evidenced by differences in the various published style manuals.))&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, each language has registers, in some of which certain constructs may be permitted, but which in others are unacceptable. Try using &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; in a journal paper. In other languages, such as Japanese, registers are so structured and formalized as to almost make for independent languages. Understanding is not a sufficient criteria for grammaticalness..&lt;br /&gt;
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91. dan: (responding to 90.) This is where I disagree most strongly. To my mind, grammaticalness. is determined solely by whether a member of a speech community finds a given utterance acceptable. Members of my speech community will, if they put their biases aside, admit that &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is a perfectly acceptable sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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92. cowan: (responding to 91.) Northrop Frye tells a story about going to a hardware store and asking for something or other, and being told &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got any&amp;quot;. The speaker then glanced at Frye and added, &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; This remark, says Frye, has what literary critics call texture: it means 1) we haven&#039;t got any, and 2) you look to me like a schoolteacher, and nobody&#039;s going to catch me talking like one of those.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; in question is part of an English-speaker&#039;s competence, which is not limited to separating the intelligible from the unintelligible, but also can separate what kinds of grammatical constructions may be used by what speakers in what situations. *&amp;quot;Lazy the jumps fox quick dog brown over the&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in all situations. *&amp;quot;Me see she&amp;quot; is probably also ungrammatical in all situations, although perfectly intelligible. *&amp;quot;Mama like pretty spoon&amp;quot; is good toddler-English but unacceptable adult-English. *&amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in some dialects (mine, for example) and entirely grammatical in others. *&amp;quot;For all x, for some y, such that x is a man, such that y is a fish, x loves y&amp;quot; is grammatical to me, but many native speakers would reject it as almost as unintelligible as my first example. I have asterisked all of these examples as ungrammatical for some speakers in some situations.&lt;br /&gt;
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93. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) And of course, for many nations there are academies that dictate the standard language for that nation (I use nations instead of languages since, for example, Brazil has an academy separate from that of Portugal, although both work together at times.) English has no academy, but this is an exception. Therefore we end up with individuals setting themselves up as a self-appointed &#039;academy&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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94. dan: (responding to 93.) Thank God we don&#039;t have such academies. Take a look at how much attention is paid to such academies too. French speakers are constantly being advised to avoid English borrowings like &amp;quot;Picque-Nique&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Le Weekend&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Fair du ski&amp;quot;, but they use them constantly and of course they should be allowed to if they want to.&lt;br /&gt;
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95. cowan: (responding to 94.) Discussions of &amp;quot;allowing people to do things&amp;quot; are political, not linguistic. Linguistics as such is silent on the subject of what people &amp;quot;should&amp;quot; do, permit, or forbid.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Does a rock roll down hill because it wants to or because it has to?&amp;quot; An animist would plump for the former reply; most educated Westerners, probably the latter. But a pure operational scientist would reply &amp;quot;Neither. Rocks simply do roll down hill, that&#039;s all.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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96. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) This does not make &#039;academies&#039;, or language prescription &#039;wrong&#039;. Dan&#039;s libertarian view of language is understandable given his American and English language cultural values. In addition, there is a difference between the prescriptive/descriptive debate from the point of view of linguists as opposed to that of regular speakers. Most people, for example, expect a dictionary to be prescrip- tive, even thought the linguists who write them disagree.&lt;br /&gt;
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97. dan: (responding to 96.) I prefer &amp;quot;anarchistic&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;libertarian&amp;quot; for personal reasons :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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98. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Lojban has a valid reason (unambiguity) to prescribe its standard form. If Dan chooses to learn Lojban, and then chooses to deviate from those standard forms, he may be expanding the language. Of course, he also may have trouble getting his computer to understand him. Since ideally Lojban&#039;s target &#039;speaker&#039; population may include computers, failure to express himself so that the computer understands him (unambiguously) means Dan is speaking ungrammatically even by his own definition.&lt;br /&gt;
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99. dan: (responding to 98.) Whaaaat? The goal of Natural Language Understanding should be for the system to understand human languages, not for human speakers to alter their speech so that a computer can understand it. Since we&#039;ve already established that Lojban isn&#039;t unambiguous, any Lojban NLP system is already going to be having a hissy fit over plastic cats.&lt;br /&gt;
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100. cowan: (responding to 99.) Of course. But such a Lojban NLP can 1) recognize unambiguously that it has detected an ambiguity, 2) ask for help, and 3) get an unambiguous response. If a Lojban computer sees &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; in its input, it can ask &amp;quot;lu slasi mlatu li&#039;u ta&#039;unai pei&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;quote plastic cat unquote expand- the-metaphor how?&amp;quot; and expect a response such as &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi ke&#039;a cidja lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that it eats plastic&amp;quot;, or else &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi zo&#039;e zbasu ke&#039;a lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that something makes it from plastic&amp;quot;. And other responses are of course also possible.&lt;br /&gt;
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101. dan: (continuation of 99.) Besides, many prescriptivists have used the same arguments against various &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; forms. The argument against &amp;quot;double negatives&amp;quot; is that they are &amp;quot;illogical&amp;quot;. The fact that no one seems to have a bit of trouble understanding them doesn&#039;t matter I suppose.&lt;br /&gt;
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102. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Some other &#039;natural languages&#039; are indeed defined exactly as Lojban is, by an a priori &#039;committee&#039; that selected the valid forms. Norse, Modern Hebrew, and several African languages were defined by some nationalists taking features from other languages used by the target population (and in the case of Hebrew, from incomplete knowledge of a dead language), and arbitrary features sometimes where the several languages collided. These all became living natural languages. Why can&#039;t Lojban, which is merely doing the same on a grander scale?&lt;br /&gt;
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103. dan: (responding to 102.) I would imagine that all of them underwent creolization, which seems to be nature&#039;s way of smoothing things out, linguistically. If Lojban develops a native speech community, then it will undoubtedly do the same, probably in all of the worst sorts of ways (the moral equivalent of &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; in Lojban) and Lojban will be yet another zany, irregular, ambiguous, beautiful language. In other words, what&#039;s the point?&lt;br /&gt;
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104. cowan: (responding to 103.) Well, perhaps you are right. Then we&#039;ll have learned something. And perhaps you are wrong. And then we&#039;ll have learned something else. That&#039;s what makes this experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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105. cowan: (continuation of 87.) There will also be growth in the language: technical terms in all fields will be borrowed and Lojbanized as needed; new compounds will be freely created, and it is even possible that new grammatical constructions will be built by usage, although we have really tried to be quite comprehensive in this domain.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t understand what the stuff about transformational grammar vs. any other kind has to do with this issue. A transformational grammar is simply certain kind of formal description. Doubtless many natural languages exist of which no transformational grammar has ever been given: do TG [transformational grammar - a linguistics theory] advocates doubt that such grammars are possible a priori?&lt;br /&gt;
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106. dan: (responding to 105.) TG is a formal description that requires native speakers to confirm. Even you have admitted that there are no native speakers of the language. How can there be a transformational account of a language without native speakers? Yet Bob LeChevalier told me point blank that such a transformational account did exist.&lt;br /&gt;
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107. cowan: (responding to 106.) I believe what Bob meant to convey was that an investigation had been made to see whether the semantic equivalence of certain Lojban constructions could be represented by T rules which would transform certain syntax trees into other trees in a meaning-preserving way. Indeed, this can be done, although it has not been done for every detail of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again, I see no difference between TG formal descriptions and others in this respect. Every formal description of a natural language requires speakers of that language to confirm or disconfirm it, but a constructed language is launched with an a priori formal description from which (or from simplified/clarified forms of which) new speakers learn.&lt;br /&gt;
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Think of Lojban as being spoken by people who live so far away that we can&#039;t ever go there to talk with them, but they have sent us some of their Lojban as a Second Language materials used for instructing their neighbors in their language. Magically, these materials have been translated into English. Some of us now learn this language and begin to speak it. Our children hear us speaking it and either learn it natively (i.e. as other languages are learned) or else they don&#039;t. Either way, a datum for experimental linguistics. A board of psychologists then administers some tests to us and our children to see if either population thinks differently (in some sense) from a matched control group. Another datum for experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many generations pass and the language undoubtedly changes. All this history is forgotten. A Linguist (capital L) comes on the scene and decides to study this language called Lojban; perhaps he is himself a native speaker. He records, using whatever linguistic theory is current at that time, a model of the grammar (a posteriori) of the language as it is spoken then. An archaeologist digs up a copy of the original Lojban textbook, machine grammar, etc., and historical linguistics goes to work reconstructing the way the language has changed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why not?&lt;br /&gt;
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108. rjohnson: (responding to 106.) Dan, you&#039;re conflating the formal (mathematical) and the psychological issues here. A transformational grammar is simply a class of formal device for characterizing (generating) sentences. it has nothing to do with competence. You could (and do) have transformational grammars for characterizing computer languages, strings of arbitrary symbols, etc. &amp;quot;Transformational&amp;quot; belongs in the same paradigm as &amp;quot;phrase structure&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;finite state&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;indexed&amp;quot; and so on; these are classes of grammars, not empirical theories.&lt;br /&gt;
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109. dan: (responding to 108.) I suppose you&#039;re right again, although perhaps my studies in Montague Grammar have made me lose sight of psychological vs. mathematical distinctions :-) Seriously though, one does rely on grammaticalness. judgements when trying to determine if a certain movement is viable: for example in the case of &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1 a. Which movie(t) do you want to see? (t) &lt;br /&gt;
  b. Which movie do you wanna see?&lt;br /&gt;
2 a. Which team(t) do you want (t) to win? &lt;br /&gt;
  b. *Which team do you wanna win?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presence of the trace in (2) between &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;want&amp;quot; blocks &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction.&lt;br /&gt;
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110. rjohnson: (continuation of 108.) The (now moribund) theory of Transformational Grammar, on the other hand, is a set of claims about linguistic competence, largely abandoned by generativists in favor of GB [this, as well as other jargon terms in this paragraph, is a linguistic theory of grammar] and other systems. Among these claims is the idea that the basic data are the grammaticalness. judgements of native speakers. But this has nothing to do with the formal notion of transformations, and can be applied in LFG, GPSG, dependency, or just about any other formal framework as well. The original poster [cowan], quite properly, kept the two levels separate.&lt;br /&gt;
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111. dan: (responding to 110.) Well you&#039;re probably right again. I&#039;m not a professional linguist yet - only a Cognitive Science type.&lt;br /&gt;
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112. rjohnson: (continuation of 110, also responding to 46.) Of course you [assume UG]. You&#039;re an MIT student. For most of the rest of the world, however, the jury is still out, and it&#039;s a mistake to assume what you&#039;re trying to prove.&lt;br /&gt;
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113. dan: (responding to 112.) I&#039;m not actually, I just post from here :-( I don&#039;t want to misrepresent myself as an MIT linguist. I studied cognitive science as an undergrad at Hampshire College, with a strong bias towards linguistics. As you can see, I play fast and loose with some of the terminology.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for assuming what we&#039;re trying to prove, isn&#039;t that the crux of this argument? Most Chomskian linguists assume UG, and most Lojbanists assume Sapir/Whorf. In the words of The Brady Bunch &amp;quot;I guess we&#039;ve all learned a valuable lesson&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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114. kimba: (responding to 113.) The point was supposed to be, if you are slamming someone else&#039;s assumptions, the least you can do is write your own in black ink in a clear and legible hand, rather than saying (effectively) &amp;quot;this is inconsistent with UG and therefore wrong&amp;quot;. As I ought, if I were actually saying anything:-) I find neither [UG nor SWH] particularly convincing or illuminating.&lt;br /&gt;
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115. lojbab: (responding to 106.) The claim I made is that John Parks-Clifford, a linguist involved with Loglan since 1975, told me that he investigated 1970&#039;s Loglan using TG techniques during the 70&#039;s and was able to demonstrate to his own satisfaction that all features of Loglan were amenable to TG analysis, and that he found no &#039;unusual&#039; transforms. More recently, a student in Cleveland has been attempting to develop a more formal TG description of the language. This will undoubtedly take a while, but he re- ported to me earlier this year that not only had he found nothing unusual, he had identified some elegant features of the language using TG techniques. The features he reported are indeed consistent with the language definition, and in- cluded aspects that the student had not been taught (i.e. that we had not put into any published documents that the student had received. &lt;br /&gt;
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116. dan (conclusion of 1., from 63.): Ultimately, the enterprise of Lojban is at best an intellectual puzzle, and perhaps on this level, it is interesting. To learn a &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; (perhaps &amp;quot;code&amp;quot; would be better) like Lojban, based on principles of logic can be seen as the equivalent of a Pig-Latin for intellectuals and engineers.&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Lojban: is it naive?&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. [The following exchange between cowan and daj began with a one-liner from daj that Lojban was &amp;quot;naive&amp;quot;. cowan wrote back privately to ask &amp;quot;Why do you say that?&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
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2. daj: Well, the three things that jump out at me right away are: (1) You can&#039;t design a culture-free language. Simply the choice of categories to represent in the language (tense, aspect, definite- indefinite, etc.) are culture-bound. In addition, there&#039;s a lot of talk in that description about using metaphor to extend the bare bones of the language. Can there be anything more culture-bound than metaphor (not the mechanism, but the choices of images)?&lt;br /&gt;
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3. cowan: (responding to 2.) Absolutely correct. Lojban is not a culture-free language; every language creates its own culture if the SWH is correct, and we assume it correct (its falsity is the null hypothesis) for purposes of the Lojban experiment. Assuming SWH, then lei lojbo &#039;the mass of those pertaining to Lojban&#039; will create their own culture, with its own metaphors and characteristic idioms.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. daj: (responding to 3.) Then what&#039;s the point of the language? All you would end up with is a bunch of creolized Lojban daughter languages, wouldn&#039;t you?&lt;br /&gt;
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5. cowan: (responding to 4.) We hope not. Of course in the very long term that can happen to any language: Latin split into lots of daughters, some of which are more or less heavily influenced by other languages (Rumanian being the prime example). The idea is that Lojban ways of thought (assuming there are such things) will influence the creation of Lojbanic culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. cowan: (continuation of 3.) Lojban deals with the category problem (which we refer to as the &amp;quot;metaphysical assumptions&amp;quot; problem) by minimizing required categories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tense, aspect, and definiteness are optional categories of discourse in the language, but can be represented when needed. We can also represent things like the observa- tional status of assertions, the emotional attitude which goes with them (there is an entire set of paralinguistic grunts for expressing emotions), and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. daj: (responding to 6.) Since every known language (as far as I know) has a set of required categories, they must fulfill some function. Again, real speakers would make the categories compulsory and create something different from the original design.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. cowan: (responding to 7.) Maybe, maybe not. Since the non-required categories are expressed by marked forms (using the particles), sentences that don&#039;t express categories are always possible. Again, they might come to seem archaic or childish, but that&#039;s a second-order effect. When a 2-year-old says &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; we usually consider that a bit deviant, but the Lojban literal translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot; is fully grammatical Lojban - a predicate with all arguments elliptically omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. daj: (continuation of 7.) Another point. A few weeks ago you posted a list of Lojban pronouns. It struck me then that this paradigm was probably too rich for human language. This is just a gut feeling, but it seems to me that in real languages the number of elements in a con- trastive set is pretty severely limited.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. cowan: (responding to 9.) Depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;contrastive&amp;quot;. The 43 Lojban pronouns are indeed contrastive in the sense of being interchangeable in the grammar, but they aren&#039;t semantically interchangeable.  They fall into several categories: personal, bound-vari- able, free-variable, question, relativized argument, reflexive, demonstrative, pro-utterance, pro-argument, and indefinite. Within each category there are only a few pronouns (or &amp;quot;anaphora&amp;quot; more technically - &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot; in Lojban). Grammatically, &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dei&amp;quot; are interchangeable, but no one will confuse &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; (the listener) with &amp;quot;this utterance I am now uttering&amp;quot;!&lt;br /&gt;
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11. daj: (continuation of 7., from 9.) I can see that it would be possible in some cases to have people speaking different dialects of the same language, where each dialect over-specified some categories from the point of view of other dialects. After all, we don&#039;t really have much trouble understanding Chinese speakers of English who simply eliminate the verb tense system and replace it with adverbs. But I don&#039;t think this would work with the pronouns, since a listener wouldn&#039;t know what any given pronoun meant without knowing the entire set.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. cowan: (responding to 11.) Correct. On the other hand, it may be that lots of the ba&#039;ivla don&#039;t come up much. For example &amp;quot;da&#039;e&amp;quot; meaning &amp;quot;a far future utterance&amp;quot; probably won&#039;t be used very often, and someone who doesn&#039;t understand it or even recognize it may still be quite a fluent speaker. One can speak English fluently without knowing &amp;quot;thou&amp;quot;, for example, although certainly it is a personal pronoun contrasting with &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; and the rest. The occasions for its use (in Modern English) just aren&#039;t that common.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. daj: (continuation of 2.) (2) If you&#039;re going to design a language that people are actually going to speak, you&#039;re going to have to deal with whatever it is that leads human languages to be the way they are. One obvious universal of real language is a floating equilibrium between ambiguity and redundancy. If you want to design a language without ambiguity, you&#039;ll have to figure out what role ambiguity plays and compensate for the loss. There are many other characteristics like this, such as why semantically external predicates like negation and tense tend to become reduced and attached to internal pieces of a sentence, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. cowan: (responding to 13.) Lojban is not free of ambiguity, only of phonological and syntactic ambiguity.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. daj: (responding to 2.) First phonological ambiguity. In your original posting you gave examples which seemed to indicate that Lojban words were polysyllabic, with syllable-initial stress. I assume that your claim that analysis of the input stream into words was unambiguous has to depend on that stress placement - in other words, a word begins where a stress occurs and includes all following unstressed syllables. But in natural languages, there are unstressed words - clitics - plus other uses of stress for phrase boundary identification, discourse function, etc. How are you going to prevent phonological ambiguity from creeping into Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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16. cowan: (responding to 15.) I must have misled you. Lojban stress is as follows: stress on content words (&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot;) is penultimate. All root brivla are two- syllabled, so stress appears to be initial.&lt;br /&gt;
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Structure words (&amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;) are one or two syllables and may be stressed freely. A structure word with final stress immediately followed by a brivla must have a separating pause (which can be a full pause or just a glottal stop). Thus in &amp;quot;le bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot; has penultimate stress; if &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is unstressed it can be proclitic [sounded together with the following word], whereas if it is stressed a pause is required to forbid the reading &amp;quot;lebri di&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Names have free stress, which must be indicated by capitalization in writing when it is not penultimate. Names are always followed by pause, and must be preceded by either pause or one of the cmavo &amp;quot;la&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;la&#039;i&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; (the first three are articles, the last a vocative marker). These same cmavo may not be embedded in names, so &amp;quot;*doil&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;Doyle&amp;quot; is not a valid Lojban name; it would have to be &amp;quot;do&#039;il&amp;quot;, roughly &amp;quot;Dough-heel&amp;quot;. (The Lojban &#039; character represents IPA [h], or more accurately a voiceless vowel glide.)&lt;br /&gt;
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17. daj: (continuation of 15.) And then there&#039;s syntactic ambiguity. Math/logic notation has an extremely powerful device for preventing ambiguity - parentheses. With parentheses you can resolve &amp;quot;old men and women&amp;quot; into either &amp;quot;((old men) and (women))&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;(old (men and women)).&amp;quot; It&#039;s hard to imagine anything like this in natural language that could operate at more than one or two levels of embedding. Even with all kinds of contrastive stress and artificial intonation breaks we can&#039;t read even slightly complicated math formulas so that they can be written down correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. cowan: (responding to 17.) Lojban has lots of kinds of parentheses: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; for Boolean connective groupings, &amp;quot;vei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ve&#039;o&amp;quot; for strictly numerical/mathematical parentheses, &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for discursive parentheses (like these). These can be stacked up as required. Of course, if things get too complicated people may not be able to understand what is said, but En- glish has that problem as well. &amp;quot;The cheese that the mouse that the man that the woman married chased ate rotted&amp;quot; is grammatical, but not intelligible due to stack overflow in the listener. But the words do exist as a regular part of the language: if the worst comes to the worst, the listener could write down what is said verbatim, pass it through a machine parser, and figure out exactly what is bracketed with what. This ability could be quite useful for things like drafting regulations, which are notoriously ridden with unintentional ambiguity: having a parser looking over your shoulder as you write such a thing would help you in seeing ways in which your listener/reader could get confused, and clarifying them.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. daj: (continuation from 15., from 17.) Also, once you allow idiomatization into the language, you&#039;re going to have syntactic reanalysis, which will produce syntactic ambiguity. For instance, every language has some way of embedding one sentence inside another, and as far as I know, they all have ways of reducing the information in the embedded sentence. For instance, take a structure like (I like (I swim)), which can be realized as either &amp;quot;I like swimming&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I like to swim.&amp;quot; It&#039;s pretty clear that the action indicated by &amp;quot;swim&amp;quot; is subordinate to the main verb &amp;quot;like.&amp;quot; On the other hand, I don&#039;t think anyone would analyze &amp;quot;I am swimming&amp;quot; as (I am (I swim)). Here we think of &amp;quot;am&amp;quot; as being a marker on the main verb, so that the structure is [something like] (I (am swim)). But both structures are realized in actual speech as V-V sequences, and there are many such sequences that are hard to classify: &amp;quot;am to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am going to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am supposed to,&amp;quot; etc. This sort of reanalysis is extremely common and probably unavoidable in any real language.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. cowan: (responding to 19.) I&#039;m not sure how to comment on this. However, I guess the best point I can make is that in Lojban, the &amp;quot;surface structure&amp;quot; is quite close to the &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot;. We simply do not have things like embedding and tense marking being realized with the same forms.&lt;br /&gt;
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(I like (I swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu mi limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I like the event-of I swim&amp;quot;. (I (am swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi ca limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I now swim&amp;quot;. The first form could be collapsed into &amp;quot;mi limna nelci&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;I swimly like&amp;quot;, which is one of the forms which is explicitly marked as semantically ambiguous: the exact way in which the liking is a kind of swimming is not indicated. This process of making a &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; (Lojban for &amp;quot;open compound&amp;quot;) is a kind of Lojban transformation, and the current grammar does not ex- press it - it is a grammar of surface structure alone, but a surface structure that is more like the deep structure of other languages. This is the kind of embedding we call &amp;quot;abstraction&amp;quot;: there are also other embeddings, involving description, relativization, metalinguistic comments, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. cowan: (continuation of 14.) Metaphors (which, as you say, are fundamental - they are Mandarin-type metaphors and really correspond more to nominal compounds in English) are semantically ambiguous, and there is also ambiguity in names and through the extensive use of ellipsis and defaults: the full translation of a simple utterance like mi klama is &#039;I/we go to somewhere, from somewhere, via some route, by some means&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. daj: (responding to 21.) But as soon as you allow these metaphors, you&#039;ve compromised universal comprehensibility, which I assume is one purpose of the language. Do you think a Mongol tribesman would understand &amp;quot;heart ache,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;dog days,&amp;quot; etc., or indeed would he have any way of knowing that &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t to be taken literally? &lt;br /&gt;
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23. cowan: (responding to 22.) There is a subtle point here. There is a marker for &amp;quot;figurative speech&amp;quot; which would be used on &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; and would signal &amp;quot;There is a culturally dependent construction here!&amp;quot; The intent is not that everything is instantly and perfectly comprehensi- ble to someone who knows only the root words, but rather that non-root words are built up creatively from the roots. Thus &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would refer to the literal heart and literal pain; what would be ambiguous would be the exact connection between these two. Is the pain in the heart, because of the heart, or what? But &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would not be a valid tanru for &amp;quot;emotional pain&amp;quot;, absent the figurative speech marker. It is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; (#*$@ English).&lt;br /&gt;
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24. daj: (continuation of 22.) In natural language words exist in paradigmatic sets: &amp;quot;No contrast, no content.&amp;quot; The meaning of &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot; would be determined in any single dialect by the categories that had become compulsory in that dialect. In other words, &amp;quot;I go&amp;quot; does not mean the same thing as German &amp;quot;ich gehe,&amp;quot; because in English it contrasts with &amp;quot;I am going,&amp;quot; while in German there is no such tense.&lt;br /&gt;
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25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Each root word in Lojban expresses an N-place predicate, and its meaning is defined by the significance of the N places. Thus &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; is a 5- place predicate meaning &amp;quot;A goes to B from C via route D by means E&amp;quot;. The Lojban design maintains that these five places are an essential part of the meaning of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;, and that any state of affairs not involving an agent, a destination, an origin, a route, and a means is not validly captured by the word &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. Most roots have 1, 2, or 3 places, and 5 is the maximum. Additional places (such as the time, the location, the purpose, etc.) can be expressed as well by an extensible set of tags, but they are not considered essential to meaning. In the case of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; there is no word which precisely &amp;quot;contrasts&amp;quot; with it in the sense of having exactly the same five places, although &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; (A transfers B to C from D via E) and &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; (A moves B from C to D via E) come close - the difference is that &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; involve physical objects, whereas &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t necessarily. But all Lojban predicates with the same number of places contrast in that they are freely substitutable, although perhaps nonsense-producing.&lt;br /&gt;
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26. cowan: (continuation of 14., from 21.) Negation, tense, etc. can be expressed either externally through the semantics or internally through the grammar. Negation in particular has gotten a great deal of attention: we split it into contradictory negation (with na or naku), contrary/ polar/scalar negation (with a variety of particles for simple contrary, polar opposite, and &amp;quot;scale neutral&amp;quot;), and metalinguistic negation (with na&#039;i).&lt;br /&gt;
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27. daj: (responding to 26.) Again, I think the evidence from natural language suggests that people won&#039;t tolerate very much paradigmatic indeterminacy. They will boil down all these choices to a few that seem particularly important to them.&lt;br /&gt;
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28. daj: (continuation of 2., from 13.) (3) You can&#039;t design a language &amp;quot;not based on any existing languages.&amp;quot; You might be able to choose totally arbitrary vocabulary, since vocabulary IS arbitrary, but interestingly enough, Lojban doesn&#039;t do that (words are based on U. N. languages as I remember). But in syntax the choices are limited, and Lojban seems to opt for a word-order language rather than a morphology language like Russian. Lojban is thereby biased toward languages that use word order to indicate structural relationships.&lt;br /&gt;
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29. cowan: (responding to 28.) You remember correctly. The relevant languages are Mandarin, English, Russian, Hindi, Spanish, and Arabic, weighted according to the numbers of speakers, and using a phoneme-matching algorithm to assign words with the highest figures of merit relative to the six languages. This mechanism is a &amp;quot;marketing device&amp;quot; to make the vocabulary easier to learn for speakers of any of those languages, especially Mandarin and English.&lt;br /&gt;
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Word order plays a fairly limited role in determining meaning: it determines which arguments of predicates are which, but can be overridden. Lojban is really a particle language: almost everything about the grammar is determined by which particles are used and where.&lt;br /&gt;
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30. daj: (responding to 29.) My mistake. But how do you come up with a culture-free list of particles?&lt;br /&gt;
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31. cowan: (responding to 30.) Again, we can&#039;t exactly. We attempt to be superinclusive, as I said above. The list of particles is large (~550) and if anybody comes up with a construct which cannot be handled by existing ones, we add one. Hopefully this process is now complete. The last few things to come in included the observationals (which say &amp;quot;how the speaker knows&amp;quot;, from Amerind languages), scalar negation, and the tense system, which is quite comprehensive (it covers space location and aspect as well as time). A few more may still need to be added to cover the needs of mathematics. &lt;br /&gt;
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32. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) I could go on. One obvious area is how Lojban indicates discourse functions like old and new information components of a sentence (or clause), whether it is iconic in tense sequences, whether it prefers coordination or subordination, etc., etc. All these factors are going to make it look like particular languages. All of them are going to have to be specified if the language isn&#039;t going to break up into dialects based on the way speakers of other languages implement unspecified features in their own speech.&lt;br /&gt;
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33. cowan: (responding to 32.) Discourse functions are handled by a large set of discursives, each of which has a polar opposite: things like specifically/generally, hypothetically/actually, metaphorically/explicitly, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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34. daj: (responding to 33.) These seem more pragmatic than discourse, but I admit the boundaries are fuzzy, and I may be using non-standard divisions. What I had in mind was the universally marked distinction between information that&#039;s already part of the conversation and information being introduced for the first time (in this conversation). English does it with articles (the/a) and intonation, Russian and Chinese do it with word order, Japanese does it with particles, etc., etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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35. cowan: (responding to 34.) The nearest Lojban equivalent to the &amp;quot;the/a&amp;quot; distinction is the &amp;quot;le/lo&amp;quot; distinction. &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;the fish, the thing(s) I describe as (a) fish&amp;quot;. It may be a whale, or a mermaid, or indeed my cat Freddy: as long as the listener understands what is meant, &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; is correct; &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is non-veridi- cal.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Lo finpe&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;fish, a fish, some fish, the thing(s) that really is-a (are) fish&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Lo&amp;quot; is veridical and makes a claim; sentences containing &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; are valid only if the thing is as described (they may be vacu- ously true otherwise, but probably a human listener would consider them ill-formed semantically).&lt;br /&gt;
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36. cowan: (responding to 32.) I don&#039;t understand &amp;quot;iconic in tense sequences.&amp;quot; Could you explain further?&lt;br /&gt;
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37. daj: (responding to 36.) In many languages (Chinese is one, I believe) you can say &amp;quot;After I went home I went to bed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went home before I went to bed,&amp;quot; but you can&#039;t say &amp;quot;Before I went to bed I went home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went to bed after I went home.&amp;quot; Clause sequence has to match time se- quence. I think it&#039;s even impossible in Chinese to say &amp;quot;I&#039;m staying home because I&#039;ve got a cold,&amp;quot; since the presupposed cause has to precede the consequent. Many other languages, of course, have no such restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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38. cowan: (responding to 37.) Lojban has no such restriction. Of course, Chinese-native Lojbanists might be unlikely to construct Lojban sentences which violate this restriction, but they should be able to understand them passively if they are fluent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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39. cowan: (responding to 32.) Coordination and subordination are both fully supported. Lojban features redundant structures: there are often many ways to say &amp;quot;the same thing&amp;quot; semantically. Lojban&#039;s specified grammar is not a transformational one, but that is not to say that a transformational grammar cannot exist or is trivial. Lojban has a &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot; even though we didn&#039;t design it to! Usage will decide, for example, whether the subordinating or coordinating versions of &amp;quot;A is true because B is true&amp;quot; will become dominant.&lt;br /&gt;
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40. daj: (responding to 39.) But won&#039;t different versions become dominant in different areas? And if so, won&#039;t that defeat the purpose of Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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41. cowan: (responding to 40.) Remember that the purposes of Lojban are threefold: 1) experimental investigation of the SWH; 2) communications with computers; 3) international communication. Purposes 2) and 3) are effective if everybody can understand every construct (or almost every construct) even if they do not often use them in their own dialect. Purpose 1) probably cannot be satisfied until some people begin to speak Lojban as native bilinguals. There are native Esperanto speakers, whose parents had no other common language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Learning Lojban involves finding out about a rich set of structural resources. Some of these will go over automatically because they match your own language. Some will seem strange because they conflict with your language, and you will have trouble with them, but you will use them anyway because they are the easiest, shortest ways of saying what you mean in Lojban. The simple, unmarked forms of Lojban are the ones least like natural languages: the predicate grammar, the contradictory negation, and the logical (Boolean) connectives. The things that are &amp;quot;in there to emulate natural languages&amp;quot; are more heavily marked and so more difficult to exploit.&lt;br /&gt;
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The best example of this that comes to mind is the form of embedded sentence called abstraction: the (I like (I swim)) above. This is unnatural in English, especially in complex constructions, but is the most painless in Lojban: you wrap an entire predication into &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; brackets (you can omit the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; if no ambiguity results) and the result is suitable as an argument for another predication. So you find yourself saying the Lojban for &amp;quot;I like the event of I swim&amp;quot; even though that is not at all natural in English, because Lojban makes it easy. You can ellipsize it to &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu limna&amp;quot;, omitting the second &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hoping the listener will reconstruct it correctly if you want, but you know that this is ambiguous (or more accurately, vague) because of the omitted place in the embedded predication. The listener is also aware of this vagueness, and can ask &amp;quot;ma limna&amp;quot; (Who swims?) to get clarification.&lt;br /&gt;
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42. cowan: (responding to 32.) [Dialectization] is certainly a known problem. All of us speak more or less pidginized versions of Lojban at best: we tend to exploit features that have parallels in English or our own languages. But the fact that the language is not very &amp;quot;large&amp;quot; means that it is possible to exploit the other re- sources after a modest amount of learning and so prevent Lojban from becoming an English-based code. The Lojban metaphor malglico &#039;that #*%^ English&#039; is applied to the tendency to copy English-based constructions into Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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43. daj: (responding to 42.) As long as it remains a pidgin language, there should be no problem. But your original posting indicated that speakers should be able to extend the language on their own. They can extend the vocabulary by combining the 1300 (?) basic words, and they can extend the expressive power of the language by improvising on the rather unspecialized grammatical structure. But here is where I think things will necessarily go awry. Speakers who extend Lojban on their own will do it in accordance with their own already established linguistic habits, and they will categorize their vocabulary according to their semantic habits (this is only a weak SWH, by the way). To the extent that Lojban becomes a real vehicle for communication, it will take on the characteristics of existing natural languages. It may be fun to see to what extent this can be resisted, but I really think it&#039;s hopeless to think that it can be prevented altogether. &lt;br /&gt;
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44. cowan: (responding to 43.) I agree about &amp;quot;prevented altogether&amp;quot;. We do try to resist, though, sometimes by bending over backwards to avoid &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot;. Consider the following translation of Simonides&#039; epigram at Thermopylae: &amp;quot;ko cusku fi le me la lakedaimon. doi klama do&#039;u fe le nu mi nu tinbe le ri flalu kei morsi&amp;quot;. Literally this is: &amp;quot;(Imperative!) You express to what-I-describe-as pertaining to Lakedaimon, O comer/goer, the event-of (we are (the event-of (something) obeys the laws of the-last-mentioned) kind-of dead).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I think you will admit that this slop is not English, and that the grammar underlying this Lojban utterance is sui generis and not something derived from English in the manner of a code. (I know no Greek, by the way, so my translation is from English not from Greek.) &lt;br /&gt;
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45. daj: (continuation of 43.) The alternative, of course, would be to extend the language by design. But this would produce either a language that looked like some other human language (and therefore unlike most human languages) or a &amp;quot;PL/1&amp;quot; language, so rich in devices that subsets would develop, fragmenting the language into dialects. &lt;br /&gt;
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46. cowan: (responding to 45.) Indeed, Lojban is comparable to PL/I or Ada in complexity. But its scope is much larger than any programming language&#039;s. If English were to be put in purely phrase-structure form, the result would be incomprehensibly large (to say nothing of desperately ambiguous). I don&#039;t believe that the entire repertoire of Lojban devices is beyond human learning, although some of the recursive complexities made possible may be beyond human understanding (as is the case in English also).&lt;br /&gt;
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47. cowan: (continuation of 42.) In translating a story involving dialogue, for example, I found it necessary to make frequent use of the observational particles of the language, which certainly had no counterpart in the English version. These mean things like &#039;I hear&#039;, &#039;I observe&#039;, &#039;I deduce&#039;, &#039;I know by cultural means&#039;, etc. Likewise, in delivering the lines realistically, it was necessary to supply paralinguistic attitudinal indicators, as Lojban makes no use of tones of voice (part of its phonological unambiguity) that an English-speaker would surely use.&lt;br /&gt;
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48. daj: (responding to 47.) Why? Have these categories become compulsory in your dialect? :)&lt;br /&gt;
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49. cowan: (responding to 48.) Of course not! But to make the meaning of the story clear to those who didn&#039;t belong to my culture, the observationals were indispensable. We know that when somebody says &amp;quot;It must be the wind&amp;quot; in reference to a sound, this is a conclusion from incomplete evidence: but a Mongol tribesman might not. Hence the observational helps to make the cross-cultural meaning clear. For communication among, say, my own family (if they spoke Lojban), I would probably not need such a thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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50. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) Frankly, I don&#039;t think the designers of Lojban knew much about language. &lt;br /&gt;
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51. cowan: (responding to 50.) Guilty, especially in the beginning. But we&#039;ve learned a lot, even if we take a non- standard slant on some things. Lojban/Loglan has a &amp;quot;historical&amp;quot; dimension as well, even if the history is only some 35 years old, and there are things in the language that probably would be removed now or changed if an a priori redesign were done.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is not designed to be a &amp;quot;universal notation&amp;quot;, just a language. Although it shares many features with other languages, it is clearly not a dialect or a code or a jargon. It has its own feature set and its own characteristic way of exploiting the set: the set is large, but the language is still small because of its high degree of regularity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether it is possible to internalize the language, in the sense of gaining Chomsky-competence, is still an open issue. I believe it is possible: I am beginning to think in the language&#039;s terms now, and so are several other ad- vanced students; some of the paralinguistics are also becoming internalized.&lt;br /&gt;
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52. daj: (responding to 51.) I have to apologize for my snotty attitude there. You&#039;ve obviously done more homework than I thought at first.&lt;br /&gt;
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I still can&#039;t help thinking, though, that you&#039;re underestimating the incredible complexity of human language, both in its use and in its potential for change. I doubt that you will be able to create a language free of irregularity, ambiguity, etc. On the other hand, you may have a really interesting semi-laboratory experiment in the process of creolization, and that would make the whole thing worthwhile in itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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53. cowan: (responding to 52.) Well, new purposes always help. These letters are being passed to the president of the Logical Language Group, by the way - I hope you don&#039;t mind - for comments.&lt;br /&gt;
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54. daj: (responding to 53.) I&#039;ll try to watch more and snarl less. Thanks for the education.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
55. cowan: (responding to 54.) je&#039;e .uicai (&amp;quot;Roger. Happy!!!)&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Why use Lojban for S/W?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: S/W is pretty much disavowed by the linguistic orthodoxy in this country. I&#039;m told that anthropologists are still interested in it, but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. rjohnson: (responding to 1.) There is no linguistic orthodoxy in this country (and why do national boundaries enter into this question anyway? There is certainly no linguistic orthodoxy in the world). Linguists are a pretty fractious bunch. There may be a generative orthodoxy (though I doubt it), but they don&#039;t speak for me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. dan: (responding to 2.) When was the last time you saw an article in any of the journals on Sapir-Whorf?&lt;br /&gt;
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4. rjohnson: (responding to 3.) Well, I suppose it depends on which journals you look at. I&#039;ve seen articles fairly recently that are &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; in some sense here and there. It&#039;s certainly not a major topic in the field at present, but there are any number of reasons that could be, includ- ing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* it&#039;s held to be clearly true;&lt;br /&gt;
* it&#039;s held to be clearly false;&lt;br /&gt;
* other ideas are exciting people nowadays;&lt;br /&gt;
* people are stumped as to how to approach it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My guess is that it&#039;s all of the above, variously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. dan: (continuation of 3.) The introductory textbooks on linguistics that I&#039;ve looked at seem to cover the topic [of S/W] briefly, if at all, and then as a discredited hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. rjohnson: (responding to 5.) In the totally unscientific sample of textbooks on my desk, Lyons has a fairly sympathetic discussion of it; Finegan and Besnier have only a page or so, mostly sympathetic but critical; Eysenck&#039;s cognitive psych textbook gives it an extended but guarded treatment; Bolinger gives it a mild thumbs down (&amp;quot;exaggerated&amp;quot;) but is essentially in sympathy with some form of the idea; and Akmajian et al. don&#039;t mention it anywhere I can find. Everyone that mentions it finds it attractive but in need of revision or special understanding. Finegan and Besnier, for instance, say: &amp;quot;Today few scholars take the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis lit- erally. Many linguists take the position that language may have some influence on thought but thought may also influence the structure of language&amp;quot; etc. If we strip away the mealymouthedness (which I&#039;ve spared you most of), they seem to be saying that the influence goes both ways, a position that neither Sapir nor Whorf would have any objection to.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. dan: (continuation of 3., from 5.) This doesn&#039;t disprove anything, but it certainly seems to indicate a lack of interest in the subject currently. I didn&#039;t mean to imply that all linguists were of one mind, but on this topic, there seems to be a pretty general agreement, in what I&#039;ve read.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. rjohnson: (responding to 7.) I&#039;ll agree there&#039;s not a whole lot of interest among the people who currently dominate the field. This is not to say that those people are committed to a position on either side of the issue - it&#039;s just not relevant to their work. &amp;quot;Exotic&amp;quot; languages are no longer the center of interest that they were in the heyday of Sapir and Whorf. That doesn&#039;t mean the issue is resolved, though. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. rjohnson: (continuation of 2.) No matter how you try to slant the issue, the status of the Sapir-Whorf &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot; is still very unclear. (Personally, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s even a hypothesis; it&#039;s a problematic, it&#039;s a topos, it&#039;s an ideological litmus test.) But in any event, though there may be unanimity on this point in some linguistics departments dominated by Chomskyans, for the rest of us (and that&#039;s most of us) the debate is still alive. (No anti-Chomsky animus expressed or implied.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You don&#039;t know enough about linguistics [either]. Anyway, the question of orthodoxy is beside the point. This is not something you vote over. There have been some suggestive studies on both sides; there has been nothing conclusive, and I see little indication that most of the partisans on both sides have really gotten to terms with what the debate is all about. \&lt;br /&gt;
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10. dan: (responding to 9.) I&#039;m calling it as I&#039;ve seen it. When I was hyped up on Sapir-Whorf myself a few years ago, I went through any number of texts looking for information on it and came to the conclusion that most linguists that I read seem to disavow it. I guess I read the wrong books. Even the anti-Chomsky linguists didn&#039;t seem to have much to say on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. rjohnson: (responding to 10.) This isn&#039;t some kind of insult: you don&#039;t know enough about linguistics to say. There are several reasons for this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# No one does. The field is too big and too heterogeneous, the social networks too fractured, to be able to gauge consensus adequately.&lt;br /&gt;
# As you just told us, you&#039;re not a trained linguist (yet). Pronouncements about what&#039;s orthodox are hazardous enough for the most highly trained finger-licker (if you follow the imagery); one&#039;s words have a way of coming back and biting one on the ass here.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&amp;quot; But anthropology, and psycholinguistics, and rhetoric, and such areas, are where a lot of the SW work goes on nowadays. These people aren&#039;t disqualified from contributing simply because they don&#039;t hold down lines in the budget of a linguistics department.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. dan: (responding to 9., from 10.) I never said anything about &amp;quot;voting&amp;quot; on anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. rjohnson: (responding to 12.) But isn&#039;t that what orthodoxy amounts to? Chomsky was took a few highly unorthodox positions once, and was roundly &amp;quot;outvoted&amp;quot; by the field. That changed. It&#039;s arguments that decide these things, and evidence (and funding, and ...), not which way the wind is blowing in any given decade. Orthodoxy is fickle. 20 years ago everyone was into intrinsic rule ordering, squishes and (trans)derivational constraints. No one talks about them now - but the underlying problems are still there waiting to be explored. Likewise the complex of problems and questions people lump together as &amp;quot;the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) If I&#039;m missing something, please let me know, rather than telling me I don&#039;t know what I&#039;m talking about. As it happens, I have tried to learn about s/w and have considered the issue at great length. I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob? I don&#039;t think so.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. rjohnson: (responding to 14.) Dan, I thought you didn&#039;t take this personally! Of course you&#039;re not an ignorant boob, not at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, it would be a lot of fun to handle this this way:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry - the weak must die. :)&lt;br /&gt;
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16. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) In several cases, I&#039;ve misunderstood what people were saying, and been misunderstood in kind. This happens, but I like to think that I&#039;m relatively informed about linguistics, based on my education and my intent to pursue graduate studies in the field.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
[... continuing on the same topic later]&lt;br /&gt;
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17. dan: [SWH] is something I&#039;m rather interested in (as a curiosity, I used to be utterly convinced by it too), and I&#039;m actually glad the Lojbanists have dredged it up for serious discussion again. I question their methods though, why not do psychological tests on existing languages, rather than trying to come up with a whole new one? Presumably, if S/W is confirmed by the Lojban project, no one would assume that it is only true for Lojban itself. This goes back to my feeling that Lojban is at best, an intellectual puzzle. If you can learn it and gain some degree of fluency in it, well that&#039;s fine for some people. Not for me.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. dtate: (responding to 17.) Hey, we agree! Weird...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
S/W is about natural languages, of which we have lots. Presumably, if S/W is true, then it is true now, for the languages currently being used. The only problem might be if all current natural languages are sufficiently similar in their world-views that S/W doesn&#039;t kick in. If this is true, then it would constitute (IMHO) a practical refutation of S/W, since S/W was originally motivated by observation of the divergence among current natural languages. There is theoretical interest in knowing if a constructed language like Lojban has a detectable effect on thought patterns, but not nearly as strong as the interest in whether there is a difference between (say) Korean and Japanese thought patterns, or German vs. French, or Sioux vs. Hopi.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;d go even farther, though, and question what it is that we hope to learn using Lojban that we couldn&#039;t learn better (and more easily) using natural languages. There&#039;s hardly any chance of Lojban ever becoming a widespread native tongue, so any conclusions we get about people whose primary language is Lojban will include the strong bias of self-selection for Lojban proficiency by the subject or some close relative of the subject...&lt;br /&gt;
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19. cowan: (responding to 18.) [We hope to learn] the same kinds of things we learn about the mechanics of falling bodies by rolling them down inclined planes rather than dropping them from the Leaning Tower of Pisa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;JCB&#039;s [the founder of Loglan] plan was to attempt to build a language tool that would have the major features of natural languages, but would have some strong warping in its structure that was deviant from all other natural lan- guages. This warping would attempt to take normal structures that presumably set limits on thought, and &#039;push them outward in some predictable dimension&#039;. His language tool would be an extreme case, not a &#039;typical language&#039; but &#039;a severely atypical one&#039;, in order to enable any Whorfian effects to be more easily seen. He attempted to put &#039;decisive but non-essential differences&#039; into the language; he still needed the language to be speakable....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The structural extreme he chose was to model the grammar on the well-understood structures of symbolic logic. There are no natural languages based on a predicate grammar, yet logicians are skilled at analyzing the structural relationships between natural language and formal logic.... The essence of these concepts is that &#039;it forces on its speakers a reasonably small set of assumptions about the world ... perhaps the smallest possible set&#039;. &#039;Any speaker, from any culture, should find it possible to express in Loglan what he takes for granted about the world ... without imposing ... or being able to impose these as- sumptions on his auditor&#039;....&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Outer text by Robert LeChevalier, from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #6. Inner quotations are from James Cooke Brown, Loglan 1, 3rd Edition.)&lt;br /&gt;
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20. lojbab: (responding to 18.) Psychological and other tests of S/W were performed using natural languages in the 1950&#039;s - at least two large studies, though I don&#039;t have references handy. They turned up fairly negative results, and this is one reason why S/W went into eclipse. (Other factors included an inability to agree even on what the actual hypothesis was; i.e. how to formulate it, the racial/political issue, attacks on Whorf&#039;s scholarly credentials, and the rise of Chomsky&#039;s theories which were orthogonal to S/W and soon attracted all the money).&lt;br /&gt;
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The tests were not conclusive, though. One major problem is that with natural languages, you can&#039;t ever be sure that hidden cultural features might obscure the results. There are also more variables to control with natural language speakers. (This is NOT the same as saying natural languages are &#039;too similar&#039;; merely that we don&#039;t know how to test for the differences.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How does Lojban improve on this? Being better defined as a language than any natural language allows better monitoring of actual usage vs. some theoretical norm. Having a structure drastically different from any natural language should lead to a much larger S/W effect than between two natural languages. Furthermore, if a S/W effect is found, its nature and manifestation will help ex- perimental design for a new test based on natural languages, when we better understand what we&#039;re looking for. Being culture-free (at least initially) makes it much easier to filter out cultural effects. Being different from all language families allows better cross-cultural studies. Because there are several identifiable areas of structural difference, there is a greater likelihood of finding effects that may be constrained by the TYPE of structure (S/W may not be general, only specific to certain types of structures).&lt;br /&gt;
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As to Lojban becoming widely spoken, you have to decide how wide the goal is. Esperanto managed up to a million speakers in 100 years, and the world population and mass media needed for rapid expansion of a language teaching effort should make Lojban&#039;s potential expansion rate significantly higher, if people find a reason to learn it. Right now the primary such reason is as a linguistic toy, as Dan accuses, since there is no obvious financial gain. Thus we indeed have considerable self-selection in the community today. This can easily change:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* development of computer applications could make learning Lojban a necessity external to personal choice in some fields;&lt;br /&gt;
* development of cross-cultural/foreign language education applications could lead to more widespread use of Lojban at a low level by large segments of population. Some of these will pursue more advanced study of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
* identifying any preliminary S/W effects that are perceived as beneficial will greatly heighten interest in learning the language among potential beneficiaries.&lt;br /&gt;
* if research using Lojban is funded, some people might actually be paid to learn Lojban as test subjects (and teach it to their children?). These would presumably be chosen to negate self-selection factors, though willingness to accept payment for this sort of thing is itself a kind of selection (all psychological studies of volunteers could be questioned on this basis, but such studies are standard in the field, so presumably there is capability to filter out such bias in the testing methods).&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, if the language in useful as a tool, it will be used. As the size and diversity of the community grows, self-selection becomes less of a bias factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, self-selection isn&#039;t an irremediable bias. Nor is the lack of a large community of speakers. In internal discussions, some Loglan/ Lojban supporters have argued for preliminary S/W testing using second-language adults, notably language inventor J. C. Brown who proposed in his book on the language (Loglan 1, 4th edition) a study where adults of several cultures are all taught Loglan over a summer and tested before and after for changes in &#039;the way they think&#039;. (I personally think his design to be flawed and too simplistic, but if Lojban&#039;s S/W effects are truly dramatic, they could show up in 2nd language fluent speakers. And such appearance would pretty much guarantee that people would find a way to build a testable &#039;culture&#039; of 1st language speakers, perhaps by raising children bilingually during the &#039;critical period&#039;, or even from birth.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, current thinking in the community is that &#039;logical&#039; thought or expression is not necessarily the aspect most likely to generate noticeable S/W effects. The removal of grammatical ambiguity from modification (as exemplified by the much-discussed plastic cat food lid) seems to heighten creative exploration of word combination. This comes from self-observation, and is a linguistic toy feature, but could lead to profound changes in problem- solving in a community speaking Lojban, which ought to qualify as a bona-fide S/W effect.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other areas of possible benefit are (surprisingly in a &#039;logical&#039; language) emotional expression. Lojban has a fully developed set of metalinguistic and emotional attitude indicators that supplant much of the baggage of aspect and mood found in natural languages, but most clearly separate indicative statements from the emotional communication associated with those statements. This might lead to freer expression and consideration of ideas, since stating an idea can be distinguished from supporting that idea. The set of possible indicators is also large enough to provide specificity and clarity of emotions that is difficult in natural languages. It is easy to imagine enormous changes in communicative activities that involve emotions, and corresponding &#039;world view&#039; changes as a result. Again, only time will tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Time is a significant factor here in evaluating Lojban&#039;s relevance to linguistics today. In the next 10 years, there will be ONLY 2nd language adults and perhaps a few children raised by non-fluent adults. For at least a generation after that, immediate self-selection will be a significant potential factor, and Lojban will be at best questionably a &#039;living language&#039;, making its results less than certain.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, for linguists TODAY, interest in Lojban can be tied to any of several major channels:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* possible use of 2nd language speakers to get preliminary ideas on whether S/W is likely;&lt;br /&gt;
* making sure that Lojban&#039;s design is as linguistically sound as we can make it given current linguistic knowledge, ensuring that eventual S/W results are meaningful;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing tools and techniques for eventual S/W testing; trying to identify what the effects will be and how they can be detected;&lt;br /&gt;
* actually participating in the language community, using your linguistic skills to help quickly build a set of initial usage patterns based on the unambiguous language (and vocabulary, idiom, etc.) that when passed on to &#039;native speakers&#039; in the future provides them with a better, more robust, starting point for evolutionary change;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing techniques of teaching the language as a second language, when there is no existing idiom. Related to this is possibly using Lojban&#039;s simple structures and culture-free properties to enhance language education.&lt;br /&gt;
* preparing other, non-S/W related research based on Lojban&#039;s features and its availability as a experimental linguistics platform or alternatively as a totally self- contained &#039;model&#039; of a language;&lt;br /&gt;
* using Lojban for other linguistic research that is not as dependent on a &#039;native&#039; base, including studies of language learning (1st and 2nd), as a medium for culture- free recording of linguistic information in studies of other languages (translating to English may help an English-native reader of your paper get the gist of what a foreign language is saying, but is subject to all the problems of English cultural usage and ambiguity. There are a lot of non-native English readers who may not be aware of those features. (In short, using Lojban as an &#039;international language of linguistics&#039; much as IPA serves for phonetics).&lt;br /&gt;
* and finally, serving as peer reviewers to make sure that those of us working directly on the project don&#039;t get our heads too far into the clouds. This of course requires that you know something of what we&#039;re trying to do, which is why we keep bombarding this forum with so many long messages :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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The following are additions to the bibliography of Sapir- Whorf Hypothesis materials compiled during the discussions on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here are some references to discussions of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. One is recent; the Fishman article as far as I know has not really been replied to anywhere that I know of. (The first part of the bibliography is courtesy of Alan Munn, University of Maryland, who made these com- ments).&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown, R. (1957) &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism and Parts of Speech&amp;quot;, Journal of Abnormal Social Psychology 55, 1-5.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown, R. and E. Lenneberg (1958) &amp;quot;Studies in Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in E. Maccoby, T. H. Newcomb &amp;amp; E. L. Hartley (eds.), Readings in Social Psychology (3rd ed.), New York: Holt, Rinehart &amp;amp; Winston, pp. 9-18.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the same volume, &amp;quot;The Function of Language Classification in Behavior&amp;quot;, by John B. Carroll and Joseph B. Casagrande, pp. 18-31. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fishman, J. (1960) &amp;quot;A Systematization of the Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Behavioral Science 5, pp. 232-239. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hoijer, H. (1954) Language in Culture (Comparative Studies of Cultures and Civilizations, No. 3; Memoirs of the American Anthropological Association, No. 79), Chicago: University of Chicago Press. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kay, P. and W. Kempton (1984) &amp;quot;What is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot;, American Anthropologist pp. 86, 65-79. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whorf, B.L. (1939) &amp;quot;The relation of habitual thought and behavior to language&amp;quot;, in B.L. Whorf (1956) The Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, Cambridge MA: MIT Press. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These articles are both for and against SWH; The Brown papers and the Kay/Kempton paper are attempts to test the hypothesis. The Fishman article discusses the results of some experiments and where they leave us with respect to various versions of SW. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Sapir-Whorf references: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alford, Danny K. 1978. &amp;quot;The Demise of the Whorf Hypothesis (A Major Revision in the History of Linguistics)&amp;quot;, Proceedings of the 4th Annual Meeting of the Berkeley Linguistic Society 4:485-99.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hymes, Dell, 1968. &amp;quot;Two Types of Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in Sociolinguistics: Proceedings of the UCLA Sociolinguistics Conference (1964). Ed. by W. Bright. Janua Linguarum Series Major, 20. Mouton: The Hague. pp. 114-167.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy, John, 1985. &amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s View of the Linguistic Mediation of Thought&amp;quot;, in E. Mertz and R. J. Parmentier, Semiotic Mediation: Sociocultural and Psychosocial Perspectives, Orlando: Academic Press.&lt;br /&gt;
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McNeill, David, 1987. &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism: The Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Chapter 6 of Psycholinguistics, A New Approach, New York: Harper and Row. pp. 173-209.&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Esperanto and Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neal@druhi.ATT.COM (Neal D. McBurnett)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;loren@tristan.llnl.gov (Loren Petrich)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. neal: Esperanto is much easier to learn than English or any other ethnic language because it has few irregularities and it has a phonetic writing system. In studies done with English school children it was demonstrated that one year of instruction in Esperanto gave the students the same level of language competence as five years of studying French. Once you learn to conjugate one verb, you know how to conjugate them all!&lt;br /&gt;
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2. daj: (responding to 1.) I agree 100% that an artificial language is easier to learn as a second language, and as a medium of international communication, something like Esperanto may make more sense than English. In fact, after teaching English as a foreign language for a couple of years, I came to the conclusion that it would make much more sense to teach Pidgin English than real English.&lt;br /&gt;
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But when pidgins become the primary language of a community, they cease to be regular and simple. Why? Is creolization a degenerative process, or do the irregularities have a function in language? I think we need an answer to this question before we assume that we can construct a &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; language and use it as a real medium of communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) On the other hand, why not invent a completely regular language, with a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; that values that regularity, and observe what if any irregularities come into existence.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. dtate: (responding to 3.) Because you can&#039;t create a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; by fiat.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. lojbab: (continuation of 3.) Lojban is not limited in linguistic research application to testing Sapir-Whorf; I&#039;ve given a lot of my own effort to ensuring that the design is robust enough to allow other studies. Pidgins and creoles of the world have all evolved from interaction between two or more already irregular and highly complex languages. Variables to watch in analyzing the evolution of the language are too many and too poorly understood. Lojban is both much simpler and highly regular. Presumably as a result, the variables affecting pidginization and creolization, and indeed all other manner of linguistic change will stand out much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, as a fledgling &#039;international language&#039; that differs structurally from all of the &#039;first languages&#039; of the world, the studies of evolutionary processes can be conducted over and again as Lojban interacts with each of the languages and cultures in which it is introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other areas of possible Lojban application include language universals (Lojban is relatively neutral on some of these, supporting many competing forms; the ones that survive or spread as the language becomes a &#039;living&#039; language&#039; are thus worth studying to find out why.) and universal grammar (if Lojban proves to be acquired by chil- dren and adults as easily as natural languages, UG will have to be able to explain it).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that a small number of Lojban speakers (especially in a specific speaking locale) would be expected to show evolutionary effects more quickly, enhancing the chances of observing such effects during a short research period. We&#039;ve set an early prescriptive policy towards the language precisely to allow enough of a fluent speaker base to form to preserve some type of linguistic identity to serve as a starting point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. pepke: (responding to 2.) &amp;quot;Degenerative&amp;quot; is kind of a loaded term. It may just be the point of view. If you start off with an artificially &amp;quot;perfect&amp;quot; language, just about any change will seem degenerative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. lojbab: (responding to 6.) Not in the case of Lojban. ONLY a change that introduces structural ambiguity is automatically &#039;frowned upon&#039;, and I personally doubt there is a major evolutionary force in language that promotes such ambiguity &#039;for it&#039;s own sake&#039; - there would have to be some other explanation for an ambiguity to be introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most other types of changes (word formation rules, phonological changes, preference in word order among them) would not be inherently degenerative. No one in the Lojban community thinks that we&#039;ve created a &#039;perfect&#039; language, only an &#039;adequate&#039; one for communication and linguistic research. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. loren: (later in the discussion) I wonder how Lojban handles (1) words for opposites and (2) verb aspects (if present).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. cowan: (responding to 8.) The term &amp;quot;opposite&amp;quot; is a bit vague. Among its 1300+ root words, some have &amp;quot;opposites&amp;quot; and some don&#039;t. There are words for both &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; is a root but &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is not. Since the root words are primarily chosen for ease-of-use in making compounds, this was justified primarily by the desire to make shorter compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a faction which has argued that there are too many root words (and that opposites in particular should be stripped out); another faction holds that there are too few (that choosing &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is an unwanted bias). In fact, having a list of root words at all is ipso facto a bias, but it is a known bias which can be allowed for. The alternative is having to construct 4-5 million distinct words with no compounding rules at all to cover the vocabulary range of the world&#039;s languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The general Lojban solution lies in the four particles &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot;, which are four kinds of scalar negation. This is distinct from contradictory negation (&amp;quot;It is not the case that...&amp;quot;) which is represented in Lojban by &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;naku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot; is nonspecific scalar negation, analogous to English &amp;quot;non-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;lo na&#039;e gerku&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;a non-dog&amp;quot;, which in principle could be anything that is not a dog, but probably means some other kind of animal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; is polar opposite scalar negation, analogous to some uses of English &amp;quot;un-&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;in-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Beautiful&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;melbi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;to&#039;e melbi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;large&amp;quot;) means the same as &amp;quot;to&#039;e cmalu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;unsmall&amp;quot;), and vice versa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; is scalar neutral negation. This arises when a scale whose opposing ends are &amp;quot;X&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e X&amp;quot; has a natural midpoint. &amp;quot;no&#039;e melbi&amp;quot; for example might be translated &amp;quot;plain&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ordinary-looking&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot; is affirmation, and has the same meaning as no particle at all. It is chiefly useful to deny one of the other particles in conversation [ed. note, also for emphatic affirmation].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Lojban also has another type of negation called metalinguistic negation, where the adequacy of the utterance is denied due to category mistake or what have you. The particle &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot; indicates that what precedes it (or the whole last utterance, if nothing precedes in this utterance) is erroneous in some such way. If a Lojbanist asks another:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
xu do sisti le zu&#039;o do rapdarxi le do fetspe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
literally:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(True or false?) You cease the activity of repeat-hitting your female-spouse?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or idiomatically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Have you stopped beating your wife?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a good and sufficient answer is &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The above sentence could be expressed with the aspect grammar rather than with the word &amp;quot;sisti&amp;quot; (cease), but I don&#039;t know the language well enough to do so yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense/aspect system of Lojban is one of the most complex parts of the grammar, and I am far from sure that I understand it altogether. Fortunately, it is 100% optional. Everything it can express can also be expressed semantically through the predicate grammar, or just omitted altogether.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rather than trying to explain the whole thing systematically, I will simply give an unsystematic catalogue of the kinds of things that can be expressed. Note: any of these items may be combined either by logical connectives (and, or, xor, etc.) or by non-logical ones (joined with, mixed with, union, intersection, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also worth mentioning that Lojban tense is &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot; and that once set it propagates to all following untensed sentences [ed. note: This is the default pragmatic interpretation for many contexts; however there may be contextual circumstances where tense does not carry over, such as:] In stories, this is modified a bit by the assumption that narrative flows in time, so each sentence may represent a time later than that of the preceding one. One may, however, by proper use of the time offset machinery, tell stories backwards or inside-out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, Lojban tense handles both time relations and space relations, where time may be treated either as sui generis or in an Einsteinian way as the fourth spatial dimension. Time and space are formally parallel: for each, there is a way of specifying an origin, one or more offsets from the origin (directions in time or space), and an interval around the point thus determined. In the case of space only, the interval may be specified as 1-, 2-, 3- or 4- dimensional. In addition, there is machinery for rep- resenting motions in space, but not in time. Should time travel become practicable, the 4-dimensional facilities of the space motion grammar may become useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Intervals may also be modified by either or both of two kinds of modifiers. One type is a quantified tense, which may be either objective (corresponding to English &amp;quot;never&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;once&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;twice&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; for time, or &amp;quot;nowhere&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;in one place&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;everywhere&amp;quot; for space) or subjective (things like &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;continuously&amp;quot;). The other type is an &amp;quot;event contour&amp;quot;, handling things like &amp;quot;during&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the (natural) end of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the termination of&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also a mechanism for specifying the actuality/potentiality status of a predication: things like &amp;quot;can and has&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;can but has not&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Separate from all this, Lojban prepositions (really case tags) can be used as adverbials also, and are grammatically almost interchangeable with the tenses. Likewise, the tenses can be used prepositionally. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; represents the past tense (time direction in the past), but means &amp;quot;earlier than&amp;quot; as a preposition. &amp;quot;bai&amp;quot; on the other hand is the preposition &amp;quot;under the compulsion of&amp;quot; but means &amp;quot;forcedly&amp;quot; when used as an aspectual. This list of prepositions/adverbials/ aspectuals/case tags is extensible to any predicate whatsoever by using the particle &amp;quot;fi&#039;o&amp;quot; which makes a predicate into an aspectual.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Lojban gismu Vocabulary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ivan Derzhanski&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. lojbab: [part of a longer discussion on Lojban roots] We wanted to maximize ease of learning, BUT not at the expense of cultural neutrality. Loglan (generic) thus maximizes reflecting the sequences of phonemes in a given word from the corresponding words in the source languages, weighted by speaker population. Thus &#039;blanu&#039; has the phonemes in order of English &#039;blue&#039; and Chinese &#039;lan&#039; (with appropriate tone which I don&#039;t have handy). The result is intended to be words that are distinctly different from those of any one language, but which sound &#039;natural&#039; to speakers of the source languages and also have an indirect cognate value - not one that is necessarily obvious, but one that can be used to learn the word if it is pointed out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. ivan: (responding to 1.) If it is pointed out indeed. I speak Russian, English, Spanish and Hindi, and I know some Arabic, but my attempts to analyze some Lojban words and to discover their roots failed almost totally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) At first contact, you WILL need to have the connection pointed out. But I suspect that after the connections are pointed out for a few words, someone with your language experience will begin to see the patterns. One problem, of course, is that we go for aural recognition, NOT visual recognition, and use Lojbanized phonetics. The Procrustean bed of Lojban morphology (all roots are of the pattern CCVCV or CVCCV) also constrains the result enormously. The algorithm we use attempts, within the framework of this morphology, to maximize aural recognition for an active student of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Incidentally, once you get used to them, the regularities in Lojban words have their own aesthetic value, just as Nick&#039;s portmanteau words from Esperanto do. Lojban words have a lot of medial &#039;n&#039; and &#039;r&#039; and initial fricatives &#039;j&#039;, &#039;c&#039;, and &#039;s&#039;, all derived from the heavy Chinese weighting. I have a little trouble with the fricatives unless I&#039;m relaxed - I get &#039;she sells sea shells&#039; type tongue twisters, but I presume the Chinese will find it pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. ivan: (responding to 4.) No offence intended, but I&#039;d like to hear the Chinese confirm this. For all you know, they may not. Schleyer went out of his way to put as few &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;s as possible in Volapk words, so that the Chinese will be happy. I hope at least his Chinese find it easy to say &amp;quot;obs&amp;quot; `we&#039; or &amp;quot;coecs&amp;quot; `government officials&#039; (i.e. `judges&#039;), because I don&#039;t. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. lojbab: (responding to 5.) That of course is the problem with any a priori word-making scheme. Especially without strong aid from native speakers. We have had one Chinese speaker look at this question directly, but since she is also fluent in German and English, she isn&#039;t necessarily an unbiased observer. The reason for the high sibilant frequencies though, is that several Chinese consonants map into Lojban &#039;c&#039;, &#039;s&#039;, and &#039;j&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, there is a balancing act. Chinese is favored by the weighting scheme, but as you point out, we have &#039;r&#039; and &#039;l&#039; as phonemes which are much more common in other languages. Still, a high percentage of Lojban roots have syllable ending &#039;-an&#039; making &#039;n&#039; such a common letter in the language, its frequency exceeds most vowels (in a language more vowel rich than English because of all the CV and CVV structure words).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We had to make guesses on how to achieve recognizability in other languages, (and were also constrained to be consistent with 30 years of prior work by language inventor Brown). Ideally, there would have been scientific testing of our algorithm in native speakers of each language before making the words, but this wasn&#039;t possible and indeed wasn&#039;t important enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The important thing was to have a neutral word-making method that did not favor any one language population, and paid at least lip service to recognizing language diversity. We also wanted non-random words, with phonemes occurring in orders that are speakable and familiar, and we got this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 4.) Some of the initial consonant clusters look intimidating, but Ivan won&#039;t mind them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. ivan: (responding to 7.) I certainly don&#039;t. I don&#039;t take them all for granted, but they are not intimidating in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. lojbab: (continuation of 7.) (and might prefer them)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. ivan: (responding to 9.) ... prefer them to what? Not to simple consonant-vowel alternation, no. I wouldn&#039;t miss the clusters if they weren&#039;t there. But they are, and I won&#039;t complain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. lojbab: (responding to 10.) One of the most frequent comments about Lojban words is that the consonant clusters look hard to English speakers, and this was more an answer to this criticism than a claim about the aesthetics of Slavic language speakers. Still, it seems a reasonable presumption that most people feel more comfortable with a language that sounds a little like their own. Interestingly, our phonology has a result that several people with experience with a variety of languages have said that Lojban (as I speak it) sounds like a south Slavic language. It will be interesting at some point to have a southern Slavic speaker confirm this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The range of consonant clusters we permit in Lojban was augmented after a Slavic languages expert pointed out that our set was extremely tame and excessively constraining on the words and their recognition. Lojban root words can be recognized as roots by the presence of the consonant cluster - which is never found in structure words and al- ways found in predicate words. We thus constrained the set of clusters in medial position by disallowing voiced/unvoiced mixing of stops and fricatives, doubled consonants, and most mixed sibilants. Permitted initial clusters are a subset of these (48), which are phonetically symmetric (thus, because we allow the unvoiced &#039;st&#039;, we allow the voiced equivalent &#039;zd&#039;, even though it isn&#039;t found in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Languages require a certain amount of redundancy to be understandable. My own comparative examination seems to indicate that most languages have either consonant clusters or tones, and that having one seems to minimize the evolutionary pressure towards the other. Polynesian and Japanese are the only exceptions to this I know of (and Japanese actually has some clusters, though they aren&#039;t reflected in the writing system). Can anybody confirm or deny my observation? What other techniques are found in languages that improve redundancy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 7. and 9.) So we end up with a language that has some aesthetic appeal for everyone, but perhaps doesn&#039;t satisfy everyone; a pleasant cultural tension/ balance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. ivan: (responding to 12.) And again, don&#039;t stress too much on the aesthetic side. It is too subjective. It is up to the person. Let&#039;s talk efficiency and ease.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. lojbab: (responding to 13.) Aesthetics is enormously important, even though subjective. It determines people&#039;s first reactions to the language. Efficiency can be quantified, and is more objective, as you say. But languages need some minimum redundancy and I suspect that we don&#039;t know what that minimum is. So pushing too hard in this direction might give a language that is too efficient to be practical (Anyone for Speedtalk - Heinlein&#039;s language in &#039;Gulf&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Thus spaghetti becomes &#039;djarspageti&#039;, with the &#039;dja&#039; from &#039;cidja&#039;, the word for &#039;food&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16. ivan: (responding to 15.) &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; is the Chinese _shi4_, I presume. What is &amp;quot;dja&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
17. lojbab: (responding to 16.) Ivan Derzhanski asked about the Lojban etymologies, and gave &#039;cidja&#039; as an example word. It is halfway down this list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are rough etymologies of a sampling of Lojban words. These are being assembled for eventual publication as a set, but we have to manually reconstruct what the computer-run algorithm did for each word. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is key to remember that we often ran several words from a single language against words from other languages in order to select the word with the highest score. In some cases, this means that the word from a language that &#039;won&#039; is not the best word for the concept in the language. Instead, subject to a little educated guesswork, we have words that offer a reasonable cognate-like memory hook between the Lojban word and a related source-language word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second note, is that words are Lojbanized phonetically. This can result in some strange-looking spellings; e.g. English and Russian vowels and final consonants often change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll schematically outline the information for the first word:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714c      katna	82.00	     cut                       &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
[Algo     [Lojban	[score	     [English                  &lt;br /&gt;
run	#]    word]	(0-100)]     keyword]                  &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This line is from a summary file of algorithm outputs, prepared manually at the time we made the words.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
kan kat kat kort kas kata&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbanized phonetic forms of the source language words - the order of words is Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, Arabic. We have not yet manually gone back to our paper originals to get the Romanized natural language spellings. Note: some declensional word endings were systematically removed to get a true root. This was to avoid getting a false recognition score solely from the declension. The stop component of affricates were removed for the same reason. There were a few other systematic a priori modifications to the source language words that I can respond to if anyone has questions about a word. Note that the source word may not be the best word for the concept in the language. We aren&#039;t expert in all these languages, and in any case wanted to have a memory hook for the word more than a cognate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(cut )&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[English keyword from the algorithm output file]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
katna 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojban word and score from the output file - there were occasional typos in making the manual summary, which we are only now finding (about 3-4% error rate - we were working quickly and didn&#039;t check ourselves well). The 6 digits are scores for the 6 source words, in order. The numbers represent phoneme matches, in order - a score of 1 was considered useless for recognition, and a score of 2 required the phonemes to be adjacent or separated by exactly one phoneme in BOTH source and Lojban. Thus &#039;kort&#039; from Spanish gets a 0 score even though it has some cognate value.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  katna	    82.00     cut                              &lt;br /&gt;
      kan kat kat kort kas kata                            &lt;br /&gt;
      (cut	)                                              &lt;br /&gt;
      katna	 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4                             &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  klaku	60.90	  weep (cry)			    &lt;br /&gt;
      ku krai vilap ior	plak baka			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (weep  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      klaku  60.90 2 2 2 0 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  krixa	61.30	  cry out			    &lt;br /&gt;
      xan krai cila grit kric sarax			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (cry out	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      krixa  61.30 2 3 2 2 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  kulnu	45.20	  culture			    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (culture	)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      kulnu  45.20 2 2 0 4 4 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  mitre	89.40	  meter				    &lt;br /&gt;
      mi mitr mitar metr mietr mitr			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meter  )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mitre  89.40 2 4 4 3 4 4				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sanmi	62.90	  meal				    &lt;br /&gt;
      san mil bojan sen	eda taam			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meal  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      sanmi  62.90 3 2 2 2 0 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sefta	60.00	  surface/face                      &lt;br /&gt;
      2/2o lower score no conflict [the	highest	score word  &lt;br /&gt;
     was used]						    &lt;br /&gt;
      se srfis satax kostad pavierxnast	satxa		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (surface	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      sefta  60.00 2 2 3 3 0 3                              &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  bersa	57.00	  son				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin ibn				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin najl				    &lt;br /&gt;
      (son  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      bersa  57.00 2 2 3 0 0 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714d  pruxi	53.00	  spirit			    &lt;br /&gt;
      guei spirit pret espiritu	dux rux			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (spirit  )					    &lt;br /&gt;
      pruxi  53.00 2 3 2 3 2 3				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  suksa	61.20	  sudden                            &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	faja                        &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	bagta                       &lt;br /&gt;
      (sudden  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714e  fetsi	    62.14     female/fem-                      &lt;br /&gt;
      si fem stri feminin jiensk uncau                     &lt;br /&gt;
      (female  )                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      fetsi	 62.14 2 2 2 3 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714e  spoja	    57.51     explode                          &lt;br /&gt;
      ja iksplod vispot eksplo vzriv fajar                 &lt;br /&gt;
      (explode  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      spoja	 57.51 2 3 3 3 0 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  catlu	    45.05     look                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek mir smatr tatala                        &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek ve smatr	tatala                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (look	at  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      catlu	 45.05 3 2 0 0 2 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  grake	    80.70     gram                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ke gram gram gram gram giram                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (gram	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      grake	 80.70 2 3 3 3 3 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  krefu	    57.53     recur                            &lt;br /&gt;
      3/3o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      [the 3rd best	word was taken to give the word	a short&lt;br /&gt;
     affix]                                                &lt;br /&gt;
      fu rikr pir rekur pere takrar                        &lt;br /&gt;
      (recur  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
      krefu	 57.53 2 2 0 3 2 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  lijda	    42.72     religion (relig-)                &lt;br /&gt;
      jiau rilij darm relixio religi din                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (religious  )                                        &lt;br /&gt;
      lijda	 42.72 2 3 2 2 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  mlana	    54.29     side/lateral                     &lt;br /&gt;
      4/4o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl satax lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl bagal lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (side	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mlana	 54.29 3 2 2 2 3 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  rinju	    49.08     restrain                         &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren abuzdiv kabax           &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren sdierjiv	kabax          &lt;br /&gt;
      (restrain  )                                         &lt;br /&gt;
      rinju	 49.08 2 3 3 2 0 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Interlinguistics and Lojban Vocabulary Building&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jsp@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Prothero)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;urban@rand.org (Mike Urban)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Prothero:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been poking through the Linguistics section of the campus library, and found a book which might interest other Loglanists: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trends in Linguistics - Studies and Monographs 42: Interlinguistics Aspects of the Science of Planned Languages, Klaus Schubert (Ed.), Mouton de Gruyter 1989, ISBN 3-11-011910-2, 350 pg., $66.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;This book ... is an invitation to all those interested in languages and linguistics to make themselves acquainted with some recent streams of scientific discussion in the field of planned languages.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The book is a collection of fifteen recent papers in interlinguistics. For folks who (like me) haven&#039;t been following the field, the bibliographies provide an up-to- date set of pointers into the literature, plus some overviews of it. I think the table of contents gives an adequate idea of the scope and focus of the book: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part I: Introductions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Andre Martinet: The proof of the pudding&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: Interlinguistics - its aims, its achievements, and its place in language science.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part II: Planned Languages in Linguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aleksandr D Dulicenko: Ethnic language and planned language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Detlev Blanke: Planned languages - a survey of some of the main problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sergej N Kuznecov: Interlinguistics: a branch of applied linguistics?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part III: Languages Design and Language Change&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dan Maxwell: Principles for constructing Planned Languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Francois Lo Jacomo: Optimization in language planning&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: A few notes on the evolution of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part IV: Sociolinguistics and Psycholinguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jonathan Pool - Bernard Grofman: Linguistic artificiality and cognitive competence&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: Who are the speakers of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tazio Carlevaro: Planned auxiliary language and communicative competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part V: The Language of Literature&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manuel Halvelik: Planning nonstandard language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pierre Janton: If Shakespeare had written in Esperanto Part &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
VI: Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probal Dasgupta: Degree words in Esperanto and categories in Universal Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: An unplanned development in planned languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part VII: Terminology and Computational Lexicography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wera Blanke: Terminological standardization - its roots and fruits in planned languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rudiger Eichholz: Terminics in the interethnic language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Victor Sadler: Knowledge-driven terminography for machine translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not a linguist, and won&#039;t attempt to review the book from a linguistics point of view, but I will highlight some points of particular interest to Loglanists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, there is some mention of Loglan (and the thousand- odd other artificial language projects to date), but the bulk of the focus is on Esperanto, for the simple reason that 99.9% of fluent planned-language users speak Esperanto, and a similar percentage of the written-text corpus from the planned language community is in Esperanto. (Any Loglanists who cannot tolerate mention of That Language are invited to stop reading at this point. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, I (and perhaps most Loglanists) was unaware of the Distributed Language Translation project, which seems to be of considerable potential interest to Loglanists. The following is quoted for comment:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Distributed Language Translation is the name of a long- term research and development project carried out by the BSO software house in Utrecht with funding from the Netherlands Ministry of Economic Affairs. For the present seven year period (1985-1991) it has a budget of 17 million guilders... Although much larger in size than earlier attempts, DLT started off as just another project of the second stage, using Esperanto as its intermediate language. Esperanto had been judged suitable for this purpose because of its highly regular syntax and morphology and because its agglutinative nature promised an especially efficient possibility of morpheme-based coding of messages for network transmission. During the course of the first years of the large-scale practical development, however, the role of Esperanto in the DLT system increased substantially. the intermediate language took over more and more processes originally designed to be carried out either in the source or in the target languages of the multilingual system. When I consider the DLT system to be one step more highly developed than the earlier implementations involving Esperanto, it is because the increase in the role of Esperanto was due to intrinsic qualities of Esperanto as a planned language. In other words, Esperanto is in DLT no longer treated as any other language (which incidentally has a somewhat more computer-friendly grammar than other languages), but it is now used in DLT for a large part of the overall translation process because of its special features as a planned language. Some facets of this complex application are discussed by Sadler [in this volume].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The functions fulfilled in DLT by means of Esperanto are numerous. Generally speaking one can say that since the insight about the usefulness of a planned language&#039;s particular features for natural-language processing, the whole DLT system design has tended to move into the Esper- anto part of the system all functions that are not specific for particular source or target languages. These are all semantic and pragmatic processes of meaning disambiguation, word choice, detection of semantic deixis and reference relations, etc. So-called knowledge of the world has been stored in a lexical knowledge bank and is consulted by a word expert system. All these applications of Artificial Intelligence are in DLT carried out entirely in Esperanto. Let it be said explicitly: Esperanto does not serve as a programming language (DLT is implemented in Prolog and C), but as a human language which renders the full content of the source text being translated with all its nuances, disambiguates it and conveys it to the second translation step to a target language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, the existence of significant amounts of fully disambiguated, machine-processable Esperanto text in such a translation system opens up the possibility of wholesale mechanical translation into Loglan. This would be, obvi- ously, particularly easy if the (currently poorly-defined) semantics of the Loglan affix system were brought into line with the existing semantics of the Esperanto affix system. In this case, bi-directional mechanical translation between the two languages might become quite easy, possible producing sort of an &amp;quot;instant literature&amp;quot; for the Loglanist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Building a simple correspondence between Esperanto and Loglan affixes is not as far-fetched an idea as it might first seem. Esperanto, like Loglan, uses a single root- stock of affixes which may be arbitrarily concatenated to form compound words. Where Loglan assigns two forms to (most) concepts, a pred and an affix, Esperanto uniformly assigns only a single affix (cutting the learning load in half!), but this poses no particular intertranslation problem. Loglan affixes are designed to be uniquely resolvable, and Esperanto affixes are not, but this problem has evidently already been solved, hence again poses no particular problem to bi-directional translation. Again, Loglan has a (putatively) unambiguous grammar which Esperanto lacks, but this problem has apparently already been satisfactorily resolved at the Esperanto end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Elsewhere on the affix front, Loglan has a set of affixes, but has barely begun the enormous task of building the compound-word vocabulary. Loglan could learn from Esperanto on (at least) two levels. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most obviously, bringing the Loglan affix system into semantic correspondence with the Esperanto affix system would open the door to wholesale borrowing of Esperanto compound metaphors, capitalizing on the planned language community&#039;s multi-mega-man-year investment. Unless there are sound engineering concerns to the contrary (I see none), there seems no reason to idly re-invent a wheel of this magnitude. This ain&#039;t a DOD project, folks :-) There will be language bigots on both sides opposed in principle to any cooperation, of course...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less obviously, Loglan may be able to benefit from the design knowledge gained from a century&#039;s experience with, and linguistic study of, the Esperanto affix system. Klaus Schubert&#039;s paper &amp;quot;An unplanned development in planned languages: A study of word grammar&amp;quot; is suggestive. Zamenhof, like Jim Brown, paid no particular attention to word formation in his original design, simply providing a uniform stock of primitives which could be concatenated at will to create new words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this lack of conscious planning, linguistic study of word formation in Esperanto (started by Rene de Saussure - not to be confused with Ferdinand Saussure - and continued by Sergej Kuznecov and others), this simple syntactic combination rule has supported the development of a systematic set of semantic combination rules. These (unwritten and unconscious but nevertheless universal) semantic combination rules allow the Esperantist, when faced with an unfamiliar compound word, to not only decompose it into (usually) familiar primitives, but also to somewhat systematically deduce the meaning of the word. Recent decades have apparently seen increasingly free use of these facilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t attempt a summary of these semantic rules here, but will try to give the flavor. Even though the primitive stock syntactically forms a single neutral pool, it appears that prims [gismu] are semantically treated in word combination by Esperantists as being divided into noun, verb and modifier (combined adverb/adjective) classes, which combine with distinctively different rules. This distinction provides one dimension for sorting prims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second, orthogonal dimension sorts prims into the categories independent morpheme, declension morpheme, ending (these first three correspond roughly to Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;little words&amp;quot;), affixoid, affix and root (these final three correspond to the Loglan affix set). These affix types combine according to a word-compounding grammar which allows the listener to distinguish (among other things) those compounds whose meaning is directly deducible from the meaning of the component prims, from those compounds whose meaning is metaphorical and must be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Loglan were to borrow the Esperanto compound vocabulary wholesale, it would of course, willy nilly, inherit these semantic regularities as well. Otherwise, it might be well to study these regularities and consciously incorporate them in the Loglan vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Of the authors, Detlev Blanke is on our mailing list, but probably too recently to have based anything he wrote on our material.&lt;br /&gt;
# Jeff&#039;s quoted description of the Netherlands translation project is useful; we were certainly aware of it.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Netherlands project is based on Esperanto - but with a caveat. It uses a formalized &#039;written&#039; Esperanto form that may be slightly different from spoken forms, but most importantly has disambiguating information encoded in the way the language is written. For example grouping of modifiers (our &#039;pretty little girls school&#039; problem) is solved by using extra SPACES to disambiguate which terms modify which.&lt;br /&gt;
# Esperanto&#039;s affix system is similarly ambiguous, though not as bad as 1975 Loglan was. I&#039;ve been given a few examples. Some handy ones are &#039;romano&#039; which is either a &#039;novel&#039; (root + no affix) or &#039;Roman&#039; (root &#039;Romo&#039; = Rome plus affix -an-) and &#039;banano&#039; which is either &#039;banana&#039; or &#039;bather&#039; (from &#039;bano&#039; = bath + -an- again). I&#039;ve been told there are many others. This type of ambiguity presents no problem to a machine translator, which can store hyphens to separate affixes etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# I have not investigated Esperanto&#039;s affix system thoroughly, but it is not compatible with Lojban&#039;s. (We did ensure at one point that we had gismu, and therefore rafsi corresponding to each of the Esperanto affixes, though.) Simply put, Lojban has rafsi for EACH of its gismu. Esperanto has only a couple of dozen, and a MUCH larger root set. Some Esperanto affixes have several Lojban equivalents. For example, we now have &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; for scalar negation of various sorts to correspond to Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;. Note that Jeff did not mention the large root set in his comments. Most of these roots are combined by concatenation, like German. But apparently as often as not a new root is coined rather than concatenate, since Esperanto has no stigma attached to borrowing. But it is not true that Lojban has two forms while Esperanto only has one.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Esperanto affix/semantic system is probably even more poorly defined than Lojban&#039;s. As Jeff said, it is largely intuitive; this means independent of a rule system. However, there are rules; this was mentioned a few times in the recent JL debates between Don Harlow, Athelstan and myself. A guy named Kalocsay apparently wrote up the rules early in this century; they are some 40-50 pages long and most Esperantists never read them much less learn them. They also are apparently rather freely violated in actual usage; they were descriptive of the known language, not prescriptive. By the way, I suspect that Lojban&#039;s compounding semantics is actually better-defined than it seems. I just don&#039;t know enough about semantic theory to attempt to write it up. Jim Carter wrote a paper several years ago, which we can probably offer for distribution (or he can), on the semantics of compound place structures. We haven&#039;t adopted what he has said whole-hog, but it certainly has been influential.&lt;br /&gt;
# We will probably make extensive use of Esperanto dictionaries when we start our buildup of the Lojban lujvo vocabulary. We thus will not reinvent the wheel in totality. BUT, we cannot do this freely for a large number of reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
## our root set is different than theirs. Some of their compounds will thus not work. The same is true of old Loglan words. We&#039;ve been held up on translating Jim Carter&#039;s Akira story (the one he uses in all his guaspi examples) from old Loglan to Lojban by this need to retranslate all the compounds (which he used extensively and in ways inconsistent with our current, better defined semantics).&lt;br /&gt;
## as mentioned above, our affixes are not in 1-to-1 correspondence.&lt;br /&gt;
## their compounds undoubtedly have a strong European bias. I doubt if it is as bad as Jim Brown&#039;s (who built the compound for &#039;to man a ship&#039; from the metaphor &#039;man- do&#039;; i.e. &#039;to do as a man to&#039;. He also did &#039;kill&#039; as &#039;dead-make&#039; where &#039;make&#039; is the concept &#039;to make ... from materials ...&#039; Sounds more like Frankenstein to me, folks.) But I suspect Esperanto has a few zinger&#039;s in there. Indeed, I understand the Ido people criticized Esperanto most significantly for its illogical word building, though I don&#039;t have details. I also intend to draw heavily from Chinese, which has a more Lojbanic tanru &#039;metaphor&#039; system since it doesn&#039;t distinguish between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Esperanto tries to get around this by allowing relatively free conversion between these categories, but the root concepts are taken from European languages that more rigidly categorize words, and their compounds probably reflect European semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
## Most importantly, Esperanto words are not gismu. They do not have place structures. Lojban words do, and the affix semantics and compound semantics must be consistent with those place structures. We&#039;ve covered this in previous discussions in the guise of warning against &#039;figurative&#039; metaphors that are inconsistent with the place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
## Nope. Most importantly is another reason. Lojban is its own language. It should not be an encoded Esperanto any more then it should be an encoded English. I suspect that just like English words, Esperanto words sometimes have diverse multiple context-dependent meanings (though again perhaps less severely than English). We want to minimize this occurrence in Lojban if not prevent it (we may not succeed, but we can try - the rule that every word created must have a place structure is a good start.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bottom line is that each Esperanto word must be checked for validity, just like any other lujvo proposal, but must also be translated into its closest equivalent Lojban tanru as well, and have a place structure written, etc. The bulk of dictionary writing is this other work. I can and have made new tanru/lujvo (without working out the place structures) at the rate of several per MINUTE for related concepts. Coranth D&#039;Gryphon posted a couple hundred proposals last December (that no one commented on), which he made based on English definitions. We have perhaps 200 PAGES of word proposals to go through. Nearly all of these have no place structures defined or are defined haphazardly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has a multi-man-year investment behind it, though not &#039;mega&#039;. No, Jeff, we aren&#039;t a DOD project, but in terms of people working on it and time spent, we&#039;ve far exceeded many such projects. And word-building, whether for better or worse, has received the greatest portion of that effort, since that is all most people have felt competent to work on. (Incidentally, the Netherlands project IS a government sponsored project, if not defense- related. If we had several million dollars, I think we&#039;d be well along the way to a translator ourselves. Sheldon Linker has claimed that he could do a Lojban conversing program with heuristic &#039;understanding&#039; a la HAL 9000 in 5 man-years. This is, in my mind, of comparable difficulty to a heuristic translation program. Any comments out there from those who know more than I do on this subject?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mike Urban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While I am a dyed-in-the-wool Esperantist, I agree that attempting to modify or extend Lojban in imitation of various features of Esperanto would be a mistake (I also lose patience with reformers who want to Lojbanify aspects of Esperanto).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto&#039;s `affix system is ambiguous&#039; to the extent that the language itself is indeed lexically ambiguous. Not only `affixes&#039; but roots themselves are combinable, and so it is possible to come up with endless puns like the `banano&#039; ones you mentioned (`literaturo&#039; might be a tower of letters, i.e., a `litera turo&#039;). Without the careful, but somewhat restrictive, phonological rules that Loglan or Lojban provides, this kind of collision is inevitable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The borrowing of words in Esperanto (`neologisms&#039;) instead of using a compound form is a controversial topic. Claude Piron, in his recent book, La Bona Lingvo, argues (quite convincingly, I think) that the tendency of some Es- perantists to use neologisms, usually from French, English, or Greek, is partly based on pedanticism, partly based on Eurocentrism (``you mean, everyone doesn&#039;t know what `monotona&#039; means?&#039;&#039;), partly a Francophone desire to have a separate word for everything, and largely a failure to really Think IN Esperanto, rather than translating. In any case, the distinction in Esperanto between affixes and root words has always been a thin one (Zamenhof mentioned that you can do anything with an affix that you can do with a root), and has been getting even thinner in recent years. Combining by concatenation is every bit as intrinsic to the language as the use of suffixes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You asked about Ido and Esperanto. While I have not looked at Ido in a number of years, I recall that the main gripe of the Idists was not that Esperanto was too European - indeed, one of their reforms was to discard Esperanto&#039;s rather a priori `correlative&#039; system of relative pronouns (which works rather as if we used `whus&#039; instead of `how&#039; for parallelism with `what/that, where/ there&#039;) in favor of a more latinate - but unsystematic - assortment of words. If anything, Idists tended towards a more Eurocentric (or Francocentric) view than Esperantists did. Ido&#039;s affix system, however, attempted to be more like Loglan/Lojban. They took the view that predicates did not have intrinsic parts of speech; thus any conversion of meaning through the use of affixes should be `reversible&#039;. Thus, if `marteli&#039; is `to hammer&#039;, then `martelo&#039; must mean an act of hammering, not (as in Esperanto) `a hammer&#039;; or, if `martelo&#039; means `a hammer&#039;, then `marteli&#039; must mean `to be a hammer&#039;. One result of this is a somewhat larger assortment of affixes than Esperanto possesses, (for example, a suffix that would transform a noun root `martelo&#039; to a root meaning `to hammer&#039;) with rather subtle shades of distinction in some cases. The result is a language that is only slightly more logical than Esperanto, but proportionally harder to learn, and no less Eurocentric.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Linguistic tinkerers like the Idists underestimated the organic quality of Esperanto, or of any living language. Indeed, one of the valuable aspect of Lojban or Loglan, if either ever develops a substantial population of fluent speakers, will be to observe the extent to which the common usages of the language diverge from the prescriptive definitions. Such effects will, I think, be easier to isolate and analyze in a language that was created `from whole cloth&#039; than in an a posteriori language like Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proposed Lojban Machine Grammar Baseline Changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document explains the technical corrections to the tentative baseline grammar of 20 July as proposed by John Cowan. Each change is explained in a three-part format: CURRENT LANGUAGE; PROPOSED CHANGE; RATIONALE. Those wishing an exact list of changes to the grammar baseline rules should contact us. The changes are sufficiently minor that we do not plan to reissue the machine grammar before the final baseline, although we are considering an addendum with the exact list of changes after they are formally approved, which will go to those at level 2 and above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Executive Summary:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# JOIK connection between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Multiple EK_KEs between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Reorder BIhI GAhO GAhO to GAhO BIhI GAhO&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove GAhOs in parentheses&lt;br /&gt;
# NA SE without NAI in afterthought connectives&lt;br /&gt;
# Negation/conversion of BIhI&lt;br /&gt;
# KI by itself and after BAI&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# GIhEK_KE priority change&lt;br /&gt;
# No FAhO before TUhU&lt;br /&gt;
# Attach free modifierss to tense_modal, not PU_mod&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow ZI PU and VI FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
# Change utterance ordinals to free modifiers&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow only one NAhE before tense&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow forethought JOIKs&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow BU to suffix any word to produce a BY&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove MEX relations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 1&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Currently, logical connection of operands in the MEX grammar is allowed using EKs. However, JOIKs are not usable in MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow JOIKs as well as EKs on the same grammatical level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Operands are the formal analogues of sumti, and this change makes operand connection formally identical to sumti connection, so that it can be learned by analogy without a special exception.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Ranges (&amp;quot;from 3 to 10&amp;quot;) can be easily expressed using selma&#039;o BIhI and GAhO, which are part of the JOIK system. Currently, these can only be expressed by a messy variation on left and right parentheses, which doesn&#039;t work well because no separator is defined between the upper and the lower bound. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 2 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Only one EK_KE construction is allowed after a MEX operand. You cannot say &amp;quot;pa .a ke ri .e ci ke&#039;e .a ke vo .e mu&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;1 or (2 and 3) or (3 and 4)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow more than one consecutive EK_KE construct. RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) same as 1) for Change 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) This change amounts to changing an &amp;quot;operand_C&amp;quot; to an &amp;quot;operand_B&amp;quot;. The baselined version was created by incorrectly copying existing text from the pre-baseline grammar, so this change is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: In expressing intervals with explicit end-markers, the order is BIhI GAhO GAhO, where the first GAhO is the left endpoint and the second one is the right endpoint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Put the first GAhO before the BIhI &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Make this form more consistent with the logical connectives like &amp;quot;na.anai&amp;quot;, where the marker for the left connectand precedes the connector.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 4&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: MEX ranges are handled with GAhO operators attached to mathematical parentheses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this capability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See Change 1. This capability was never correctly specified, because only one expression can appear between parentheses, whereas ranges require two expressions inherently.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 5&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: It is possible to specify either NA or SE before selma&#039;o A, JA, GIhA, or ZIhA, but they cannot both be specified unless -NAI follows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The intent of a previous change just before the baseline was to allow both NA and SE (in that order) in all cases, not just those where -NAI followed. This ability was accidentally omitted, so this is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 6&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: selma&#039;o JOI can be converted with SE and negated with NAI like the logical connectives, but the closely related selma&#039;o BIhI cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow conversion and negation of BIhI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Converted ranges allow &amp;quot;se bi&#039;o&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;to...from...&amp;quot; and negated ranges allow &amp;quot;bi&#039;inai&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;not between&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 7&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: KI can be used either on an origin specifier or on a time and/or space tense to reset the scope or position of the origin. KI by itself is ungrammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow KI by itself. This returns the origin to the physical here and now. Also allow KI after BAI to set a default aspect value; &amp;quot;BAI KI sumti&amp;quot; sets the BAI aspect to the sumti, and &amp;quot;BAI KI KU&amp;quot; resets the aspect to its default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This capability existed in the pre-baseline grammar, and was omitted in error during the tense redesign.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 8 *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 9&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: GIhEK_KE constructs have lower priority than basic GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Place GIhEK_KE constructs at the highest priority among GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This is the scheme used by sumti and operand connection, where EK has the lowest priority (and is left-binding), EK_BO has medium priority (and is right- binding), and EK_KE has highest priority (and is again left-binding). During the split between Institute Loglan and Lojban, sumti were changed to make EK_KE highest priority (and operands followed when MEX was redesigned) but bridi-tails were not changed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 10&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: FAhO can appear in two possible places, at the end of text (including TO-TOI parenthesized text), and just before the closing TUhU of a TUhE-TUhU very long scope construct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Disallow FAhO before TUhU. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: FAhO was intended to signal the end of text unambiguously, but a parser problem forced it to be allowed in an additional context. That problem no longer exists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 11&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: The grouping of PU_mods means that a free modifier at the end of a PU_mod applies to the whole PU_mod rather than just to the tense_modal at the end, whereas free modifiers embedded within the PU_mod refer only to the tense_modals they follow. So &amp;quot;puxipa je puxire&amp;quot;, which should mean &amp;quot;past-time t1 or past-time-t2&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(past-time t1 or some-past-time)-sub-2&amp;quot;. As a result, there would be no way to subscript a conjoint tense, but it is not clear what such subscripts would mean anyhow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Move the free modifier to tense_modal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See CURRENT LANGUAGE section. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 12&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: An initial FAhA cannot be followed by space offsets, but only by a space interval (or by nothing at all). Analogously for a ZI in the time system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow FAhA followed by space-time-offsets and ZI followed by time offsets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This allows the currently ungrammatical &amp;quot;vizu&#039;a&amp;quot; in the sense of &amp;quot;to the left of a nearby point&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;zu&#039;avi&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;a point not far to the left of here&amp;quot;. This distinction is subtle, but real. The change to the time system follows by symmetry, although initial ZI is probably not of much use, since it means &amp;quot;a short/medium/long time distance from now&amp;quot; without specifying either past or future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 13&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Utterance ordinals using MAI are currently considered indicators, and can appear after any word and get absorbed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Shift MAI constructs to the more restrictive free-modifier grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The absorber routines in the parsing program which need to remove non-initial utterance ordinals before YACC sees them have to read an arbitrary number of PA or BY tokens, determine whether the next token is a MAI, and if so absorb, but if not push back all the PA/BY stuff. This requires unbounded pushback capability in the absorber, which is to be avoided.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was proposed earlier but never consummated. A side effect of this change is that lexer_A would flag utterance ordinals only, and the regular indicators (UI, CAI, Y) no longer need lexer flagging. Another side effect is that FUhO, DAhO, and POhA can be treated as indicators (and PEhA as a forethought indicator like BAhE) rather than with special magic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 14&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: A tense can be prefixed with arbitrary numbers of NAhE tokens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow only one NAhE token at most.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The compounder needs to read past a potentially infinite number of NAhEs to decide whether what follows is a selbri (which is not compounded) or a tense. If this change is made, the compounder will always be able to decide within 2 tokens whether it has a compound or not. If multiple NAhEs are really needed, the tense can be expanded to use the predicate grammar instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 15: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 16: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 17&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Logical operators can be represented in either forethought or afterthought (except for tenses and abstractors), as can aspectual (BAI) operators, but the non-logical operators of JOI and BIhI have no forethought versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;[SE] JOI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;[SE] BIhI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; as new kinds of forethought connectives, analogous to the existing &amp;quot;stag GI [NAI]&amp;quot; (see the E- BNF grammar). Forethought would still be disallowed in tanru (no GUhEK equivalent of this) and where the GAhO endpoint markers are required. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Completeness, plus the fact that natural languages such as English usually represent JOIKs with forethought constructs (&amp;quot;the union of...and...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;from...to...&amp;quot;, etc.) Institute Loglan had only one JOIK, &amp;quot;ze&amp;quot; (the equivalent of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;), so a forethought construction was not felt necessary. The far more elaborate JOIKs of Lojban can easily be extended to forethought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 18&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, selma&#039;o BU, has a very restricted use. It can only appear after bare vowels (selma&#039;o A, I, and Y) to create the lerfu for those vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot; after any (lexable) word whatever, to create something equivalent to selma&#039;o BY. In addition, change the standard lerfu for &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;. Remove the ZAI...FOI construct for change of character set, as well as the TEI construct. LAU is kept and extended to hold all lerfu prefixes, including &amp;quot;zai&amp;quot; to specify character set and &amp;quot;tau&amp;quot; to force a next-lerfu shift.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Composite symbols become represented by TEI letteral ... FOI, which has the grammar of a single letteral. RATIONALE: This allows the creation of a bunch of new lerfu. The Latin and Greek alphabets can be more readily accommodated; for example, &amp;quot;q&amp;quot; could have &amp;quot;kybu&amp;quot; as its lerfu. lerfu for the digits become possible; for example &amp;quot;pabu&amp;quot; would be the digit 1, as opposed to the number 1. &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; causes problems with the parser, as the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is absorbed into the preceding token (as a hesitation noise) and is not available to be compounded with &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot; uses the lerfu &amp;quot;y&#039;y&amp;quot; (alone representing &amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot;) instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ZAI...FOI construct is meant to specify new character sets, but requires spelling out the name of the character set in lerfu, for example &amp;quot;zai dy ebu vy abu ny abu gy abu ry ibu foi&amp;quot; to enable Devanagari mode. This is ugly. Using the new flexibility of &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, we can say &amp;quot;zai .devanagar. bu&amp;quot; instead. (The pauses are needed in names for morphological reasons.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 19&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: There is a special category of predicates called &amp;quot;MEX relations&amp;quot; which have special grammar; they represent mathematical relations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Assimilate MEX relations to ordinary predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: MEX relations as defined cannot be logically connected and overlap ordinary predicates. The only MEX relation cmavo defensible on Zipfean grounds is &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;, which is moved to selma&#039;o GOhA.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Letter from Vincent Burch&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(italicized comments by Bob)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... First, a couple of lexical questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gurni - does this mean grain (texture) or grain (cereal)? [cereal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fepni - does the last place, &amp;quot;from...&amp;quot; indicate the major unit this is a division of, or the issuing authority? [the latter]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few suggestions about place structures:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[These are open to comments from the community, and will be considered along with others as part of the ongoing place structure review.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cevni - there should be another place to indicate purview (&amp;quot;of...&amp;quot;). This eliminates an inadvertent bias toward monotheism, and allows anthropologists, or anyone else, to easily discuss deities such as Thor, the Norse god of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cange, farm and purdi, garden - need another place for crop(s) grown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
zekri - should insert &amp;quot;against...&amp;quot; to indicate the victim. The concept that all crimes are crimes against the state is a relatively recent development of debatable merit. (I&#039;m enough of an anarchist to think that &amp;quot;crime against the state&amp;quot; comes close to being an oxymoron.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vindu - should add a place for source (&amp;quot;from...&amp;quot;) so that, for example, le vindu fe le mledi, fungicide, can be distinguished from le vindu fi le mledi, mycotoxin. As a linguistic faulpelz, I&#039;d like to know if there&#039;s a clear way to condense those phrases, and others like them, into lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I assume, &amp;quot;...and to distinguish them&amp;quot;. After all mledi vindu covers them both, but ambiguously. How about: mledi krasi vindu to explicitly give the latter. &amp;quot;from source/origin&amp;quot; has a lexeme BAI and is probably not needed in the place structure, making the simpler tanru more clear to cover &#039;fungicide&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Surprise&amp;quot; is a good keyword for .ue, but when you write the dictionary, you should be sure to include the translation of .ue as &amp;quot;even...&amp;quot;. My statement of mock mock-humility, &amp;quot;sogar ich kann Fehler machen,&amp;quot; becomes mi .ue pu&#039;i srera.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[You are NOT expressing surprise - as you said it is mock humility. Don&#039;t &#039;lie&#039; with attitudinals; if you do, they don&#039;t serve their proper purpose. Another culture is perfectly justified at treating them literally. How about .o&#039;anai .ianai. It is longer but clear.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, I have a few suggestions for added cmavo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... enough to ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating sufficiency or potential, whether or not realized. [I need an example to tell your exact intent, but I think the existing set will manage it.]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... such that .../ ... so that .../ ... to the point of ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating actual result. This could be used to translate such tings as &amp;quot;bored to tears,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freeze to death,&amp;quot; or Carsonesque &amp;quot;it&#039;s so hot, that ...&amp;quot; [ja&#039;e]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... by ...&amp;quot;, a modal to identify the point of attachment; used to translate such phrases as &amp;quot;lead by the nose,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;hang by fingernails.&amp;quot; [sedi&#039;o] 4) &amp;quot;Heading/Title:&amp;quot;, a tag to identify the following text as a heading or title to the body of text following it. The end of the title would be marked by ni&#039;o or any of the mo&#039;o series. As would hopefully be obvious in use, a title before nomo&#039;o applies to entire body of text in question. Likewise before pamo&#039;o unless there is already a title that it becomes a subheading under. Subsequent headings apply only to designated sections of text. This cmavo would share some of the function of ni&#039;o, but apparently require its own lexeme. [This would require a grammar change, and isn&#039;t needed. Titles and Headings are metalinguistic, and should be identified as such. Our published examples have shown a couple of ways to do this.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for some gaps I see in the gismu list:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) When I read your report on Logfest &#039;90, I was amused by a collective blind spot. You make sure all the Terran continents are named, but you don&#039;t notice the absence of an adequate generic term. I&#039;m not satisfied with bady- daplu (.a&#039;unai!), and it couldn&#039;t be used in lujvo for concepts like transcontinental or intercontinental. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[.a&#039;unai is intended to be repulsion as contrary to interest (negative-interest), and seems strange in this context, but who knows. I would prefer using tumla to daplu, but otherwise see nothing wrong with your lujvo, which can in turn be used with ragve or jbini to get the other two concepts. Not all concepts need to be expressed in only two terms.]&lt;br /&gt;
2) Similarly, there is no gismu for forest. A ricygri is a copse, or stand, or clump. Besides, a forest is more than a group of trees; it&#039;s an entire ecological community (or megacommunity?). A separate gismu is needed to describe things as sylvan or woodland, or to make lujvo for forestry, woodcraft, or deforestation. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[Depending on your purpose, you could therefore use the most non-specific term: tricu foldi, or for your specific uses tricu ciste, or even tricu cecmu. There needn&#039;t be one Lojban term for all uses of an English term. Note that I do not make lujvo at this point. I would analyze the tanru much more careful before doing so.]&lt;br /&gt;
3) How does one say galaxy or galactic? A targri is a star cluster, which is a far cry from the huge, orbiting system that is a galaxy. Again, there are concepts like intra-, trans-, and inter-, and extragalactic. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[banli tarci ciste, perhaps. The compounds are used inexactly in English, by the way, so you have to be careful. But they are not everyday words and could easily be 4 or 5 part compounds using kensa where needed.]&lt;br /&gt;
4) Going the other way on the size scale, the difference between a village and a town (cmata&#039;u) is qualitative more than quantitative. I can&#039;t come up with a lot of lujvo, but it still bothers me. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[You are right - the difference is qualitative. Define the quality and you have your tanru. How about cange zarci tcadu?]&lt;br /&gt;
5) I see no way to discuss expectation in a veridical (as opposed to attitudinal) context, whether you mean astrology, meteorology, Wellsian futurology, scientific knowledge such as &amp;quot;I expect a dropped object to fall,&amp;quot; or world view such as &amp;quot;I expect children to respect their elders.&amp;quot; lujvo include disappoint = expectation-fail, optimist = good-expector, and pessimist = bad-expector (in contrast to xagnalkri, cynic = good-doubter). &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[krici (and senpi) are key gismu, with expectation referring to a belief about the future, about fate, or about fortune (balvi, dimna, cunso), depending on degree, intent and scope] &lt;br /&gt;
6) In scientific contexts, it would be very helpful to have a gismu for taxon. No, that is not the particle that transmits government extortion; it is a branch/level/division in a system of hierarchical organization. Taxonomy would be taxon-system-study), depending on context, but the primary use would be to de- signate taxonomic levels. Thus, Felideae and Lamiaceae are both examples of family-taxon. This avoids the confusion of trying to back-count the steps from jutsi to kingdom. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[jutsi conveys the series of species within a taxonomic hierarchy, with klesi used in a less rigorous context.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I could go on, but it&#039;s late. Ni&#039;o, . . .&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few of my lujvo that I&#039;m proudest of: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kaurjutsi (kampu jutsi). The place structure is &amp;quot;x1 is the common name used by x2 for the life-form called x3 (Linnaean binomial) by author x4.&amp;quot; I expect this lujvo would see more use in classrooms and laboratories than the original gismu. With ki&#039;a and the vo&#039;a series, it&#039;s easy to ask questions like &amp;quot;what&#039;s the common name for this?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;who calls it that?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;what&#039;s the scientific name for tapeworm?&amp;quot; An example of usage is: le ricpurdi srasu ku kaurjutsi le merko lai Dactylis glomeratus la lineius i le jipcirjma ku kaurjutsi le brito vo&#039;i (Orchardgrass is the American common name of D. glomeratus [L.]. The Brits call it cocksfoot.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;lu ricpurdi srasu li&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;la ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot;, since it&#039;s a name. Also, since you are dealing with names, rather than with the classification system, cmene should be the underlying gismu.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
relxadba (re xadba). &amp;quot;x1 is the mate of x2&amp;quot;. The mnemonic is &amp;quot;pair-half&amp;quot;. I originally coined it with gloves, socks, and shoes in mind, but it can easily be extended to animal species which are at least ostensively monogamous, like Homo sapiens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I think xadba mapti fits your definition more clearly. Look at the place structures of your underlying gismu, especially the final one that determines the tanru place structure.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu&#039;arselgre (cuxna se pagre). &amp;quot;x1 filters x2, stopping x3 and passing x4&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;selective barrier&amp;quot; can be a construct of paper and metal for filtering oil, gas, or air, or a piece of tinted glass for filtering light, or an assembly of components for filtering an electromagnetic signal, an algorithm for filtering input, or a mind-set for filtering perceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My first choice for keywords for tanru and lujvo is &#039;word cluster&#039; and &#039;affix cluster&#039;; my second choice is &#039;modified phrase&#039; and &#039;modified word&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[At least one person expressed a preference. Does anyone else care?]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like the overall setup of kinship terms, including the proposed generics. The &#039;988 panzi is basically included in jbena (if both are viewed tense-free). Inverting and expanding panzi would make it nicely symmetrical to jbena. I think &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; would also be welcome additions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A good translation of &amp;quot;just married&amp;quot; might be puzize&#039;u speni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I&#039;ll leave this one for a longer discussion of tenses. Maybe next issue.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The attitudinals and discursives are both in the UI lexeme. Does this mean that the attitudinals can be compounded with the discursives, or just with each other?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[No rules against it - the line between the two is rather arbitrary, but beware of possible misinterpretations.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be worth adding another cmavo to have a discursive for &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot;? If the answer to both of these last questions is yes, then .uecu&#039;i would combine with &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot; to translate the German discursive &amp;quot;ausgerechnet.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I don&#039;t know the German word, but irony is simply expressed with .ianai, in an otherwise positive claim.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I propose a new procedure with the names and acronyms of nations and other groups. Each word of the name should be examined to see if it is intrinsically a name, or if it&#039;s &amp;quot;just a word.&amp;quot; (Yes, I know that this can be an arbitrary distinction.) The names should be rendered phonetically into the best-fit cmene, and the words should be translated and then cmenified. Acronyms should either be the result of this process, or a simple rendition of the acronym from the source language. Thus, we might discuss la ge&#039;oSySySyRur or its Lojbanic equivalent, but not la .ubuSySyRyr. Hopefully, we can be more consistent (with whatever convention) than English speakers. USSR is a translated acronym, but KGB is the acronym of the Russian phrase that means &amp;quot;Committee for State Security.&amp;quot; If we&#039;re going to keep the original acronym, we might as well pronounce it kah-geh-beh, and leave it in Cyrillic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, that task requires more lujvo, to translate the various governmental concepts. Republic is easy, that&#039;s ka&#039;irtru (krati turni). I&#039;ve put some effort into coining lujvo for the rest, but it&#039;s a challenge to find metaphors which accurately convey the essence of the terms and remain culturally neutral. Confederacy, for example, is listed in most dictionaries as synonymous with federation. The difference is more or less clearly understood, however, by speakers - especially those who take a dim view of central authority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The terms are pretty much synonymous, unless you have a context where one was chosen and acquired secondary connotations, as in the U.S. Civil War.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
---------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[John Hodges takes a different perspective on people&#039;s reasons for learning Loglan/Lojban (his reasons apply regardless of the language name). His arguments are sound though pessimistic; I feel a little optimism is necessary for anyone to choose to learn an artificial language expecting practical benefit. Nora points out that John and I both have omitted the reason most people who have actually knuckled down and started learning the language - as a linguistic toy, a personal mind expander. This minor, totally impractical aspect may be the spark to get a &#039;movement&#039; started once we have a larger speaker-base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from John Hodges, on &#039;Why Lojban&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve pondered the subject of &amp;quot;Why Lojban?&amp;quot; We need to provide answers on an individual level, &amp;quot;Why should I study Lojban now?&amp;quot; Lojban may have many uses, but not all of them can be used as reasons for an individual to learn it. E.g. John Cowan&#039;s suggestion that L. may be valuable in linguistic research as a case study in the process of creolization. (Though, since creolization is an example of language evolution, it would seem to me for that purpose one would want an evolved language, not a constructed one.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: If you have fluent speakers, one would expect the processes of language evolution to be the same.] If there were a sizeable L-speaking community, a researcher might become interested. But I doubt if any individual would learn Lojban in order to improve the opportunities for lin- guistic research into creolization.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original &amp;quot;basic three reasons&amp;quot; still hold, in varying amounts for different people. The hope that those who think in Lojban will think &amp;quot;better&amp;quot; in some measurable way, more flexibly and/or more logically, is the one that will provide my own motivation. Potential usefulness as a com- puter language may motivate Computer Science researchers. Potential as a Global Auxiliary Language, a &amp;quot;common tongue&amp;quot; to reduce language barriers, may interest some more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written before on the possible aid that the computer-science people could give to the global-common- tongue ideal. Machine translation FROM Lojban TO natural languages would seem much more practical than any other kind of machine translation. It seems to me the project most likely to give tangible results within a small number of years. It is a project that can be worked on by a small number of widely scattered people. It is a project that may be &amp;quot;academically respectable&amp;quot;, suitable for theses and grants. It can be done by people who are not terribly fluent in anything but their native tongue. Intermediate results, software that gives bad but decipherable translations, can still be useful as research and as teaching tools. Altogether, in my opinion, enough to give a &amp;quot;reason for existence&amp;quot;, or a practical focus, to la lojbangirz. if efforts toward a mass movement fizzle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, I am not a computer-science person, and I have concluded that I am not likely to become one. My motivation is too weak for the work that would involve, given my starting point. Hence I cannot contribute personally to a machine-translation effort. I am starting out (once more on a new direction, toward graduate study of philosophy, in logic and ethics. My interest in Lojban will be in its potential as a language for thinking clearly in. (Pardon my English.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The class I taught never got to the &amp;quot;logical connectors&amp;quot;, and, or, xor, not, if, because, etc.... I recall you expressing a hope that a parser that could look ahead more than one token might allow a simplification of Lojban&#039;s system of logical connectors. Here also, then, the contributions of CS people are of high value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s value as a teaching vehicle for Logic, or (perhaps more likely) for linguistics, are potentially reasons for learning Lojban, for those who already wish to learn logic or linguistics. Someone would have to write a textbook on logic or linguistics that used Lojban as such a vehicle. Who knows, I might do that someday. I&#039;ll keep it in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have thought of the appeal of exclusivity and secrecy; given that so few people know this language, hobbyists might use it for private speech or writing. Diaries and intimate conversation... but is that enough motivation for learning a language, even one relatively easy to learn? Codes and ciphers would serve those purposes with less effort. I have thought of calling L. &amp;quot;Dragontongue&amp;quot;, recalling my Dad&#039;s comment that Lojban looked like nothing human. Fantasy fans might be attracted to it because of that. Again, I doubt this motivation is strong enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written on the global-common-tongue idea; given start-up-costs, increasing returns to scale, and inertia of established standards, I think our only hope is through machine translation. AFTER a dramatically successful test of Sapir-Whorf, the S-W angle may give us another selling point. Until MT or SW materializes, I think Esperanto owns the field, and even they have a very uphill fight. I think the most-likely-future is for the largest natural languages to grow and consolidate. In areas with a lot of small, fiercely loved ethnic or national languages, AND no clearly dominant existing common tongue, Esperanto will have its appeal to the sensible minority. Barring a sudden global attack of sanity, there will be no global common tongue. But given MT from L. to the largest N natural languages, L. could sweep the field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Following is a last, more scholarly examination of the question of Esperanto and its &#039;16 Rules&#039;, written by an expert in the History of Esperanto and International Languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== COUNTING THE GRAMMATICAL RULES OF ESPERANTO ===&lt;br /&gt;
Bernard Golden&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 16 rules - for propaganda purposes only ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For more than a century propagandists have tediously and repulsively disseminated the falsehood that the grammar of Esperanto consists of only sixteen rules. Plena Analiza Gramatiko (Complete Analytical Grammar)&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt; comments more realistically on the so-called &amp;quot;complete Grammar of Esperanto&amp;quot; which is the title of the sixteen rules in the Fundamenta Krestomatio (Fundamental Chrestomathy): &amp;quot;To want to limit the fundamentals of Esperanto to that scanty grammar and rely exclusively on it in order to discuss the main questions of our language would indeed be an unscientific and infantile attitude&amp;quot; (P. 18). Such a Lilliputian grammar is evidently insufficient for clarification of how the language is used, and it must be completed by rules formulated in other parts of the Fundamento (Foundation of Esperanto) or illustrated by Zamenhof&#039;s own usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== An unsuccessful attempt to estimate the number of rules ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To the best of my knowledge the first Esperantist who explored the question of the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is Douglas B Gregor&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;. He emphasizes that Zamenhof never said that Esperanto has only sixteen rules. It is a question not of sixteen rules but only sixteen descriptive items. &amp;quot;They are simple 16 heterogeneous traits of Esperanto which Zamenhof for some reason wanted to emphasize&amp;quot; (p. 8). Consequently, Gregor gave up trying to ascertain the actual number of rules in Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it not possible to compare Esperanto, even in an approximate manner, with ethnic languages in order to have an idea of the number of its rules? In the study referred to above, Gregor reports that he made an attempt to compare Esperanto with an ethnic language when he compiled a list of 6000 examples illustrating rules about language usage in Italian, but he did not succeed in drawing conclusions about Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Grammars and grammatical compendia ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An idea of the magnitude of Esperanto grammar can be acquired from the number of paragraphs or sections in grammatical reference books. For example, Plena Analiza Gramatiko has 436 numbered paragraphs describing the language in detail, but that is a minimum figure for the number of rules because within each paragraph are sections and subsections with discussions of doubtful points and even exceptions not conforming to the published Plena Gramatiko (Complete Grammar). Kalman Kalocsay&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; describes the language in 288 paragraphs in which, just as in Plena Analiza Gramatiko, there are several sections and subsections. Does the figure 288 signify simplification of the grammatical analysis of Esperanto or did Kalocsay omit some rules?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a manual titled Gramatiko de Esperanto, Miroslav Malovec&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt; requires a little over 150 paragraphs and sections to teach the grammar, while Gaston Waringhien&#039;s brochure gives a concise overview of the essence of Esperanto grammar in only 66 paragraphs&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Analytic School ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to the doctrine of the Analytic School (Analiza Skolo) founded by Luis Mimo, the ingenious Fundamental set of sixteen rules is incomplete but can be completed by application of logic which determines the structure of the language up to the last detail&amp;lt;ref name=xa /&amp;gt;. Mimo stresses the point that the sixteen Fundamental rules impress learners favorable but they in no way determine how the language is to be used&amp;lt;ref name=ze /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Now, the rules not given by Zamenhof, which are immanent in the language, have been given by the Analytic School by means of a systematic analysis and control with the help of the sole means of language analysis, logic, which in every case gives the correct answer; just one, because, already having been provided with its elements, nothing in the artificial language can be capricious&amp;quot; (p. 241).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mimo&#039;s Kompleta lernolibro de regula Esperanto (Complete textbook of regular Esperanto) was published in 1973. It has a 31-lesson systematic grammar, but the presentation is not complete since the second part has not yet been published. Still another one of Mimo&#039;s books exists only in manuscript form: Esperanto por la jaroj du mil (Esperanto for the year 2000). Consequently, the number of rules which can arise from the logical analysis of the 16-rule Fundamental grammar by adherents of the Analytic School is not ascertainable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Conclusion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if an investigation were to be undertaken for the purpose of listing each separate illustration of Esperanto language usage (as Gregor did for the Italian language), I have the impression that no two grammarians would induce more or less the same number of rules. The only judicious answer to the question about the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is that which Gregor gave at the end of his study: &amp;quot;the grammatical rules of Es- peranto are much more than sixteen; however, Esperanto has fewer rules (i.e. items to be memorized) than other languages.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Notes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, K. and WRINGHIEN, G. Plena analiza gramatiko de Esperanto. 4th edition Rotterdam: Universala Esperanto-Asocio; 1980. 598 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt; GREGOR, Douglas B. Kiom da reguloy vere havas Esperanto? Science Revuo. 1982; 33 (1 [139]): 5-9. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, Klman. Rendszeres Eszperant nyelvtn. Budapest: Tankonyvkiad; 1966. 243 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt; MALOVEC, Miroslav. Gramatiko de Esperanto. Trebic (Czechoslovakia): 1988 102 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt; WARINGHIEN, G. A.B.C. d&#039;Espranto  l&#039;usage de ceux qui aiment les lettres. Paris: SAT-Amikaro; 1967 74 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xa&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Sur la vojoj de la Analiza Skolo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1987 278 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ze&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Pledo por unueca lingvo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1985 287 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from David Morrow ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: David was apparently a bit upset at comments from Ralph Dumain on the Lojban community, and at Donald Harlow&#039;s comments.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am not a &amp;quot;computer nerd&amp;quot; and I am not much interested in science fiction. I am a middle aged blue collar worker, I only own a word processor, and the only fiction I read is usually Middle English or a few types of modern writing that are not speculative. I suspect some Esperantists see a real threat...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[With this, let us end the discussion of Lojban and Esperanto, at least until there are more speakers of Lojban (especially those who know Esperanto as well), who can offer facts and experiences, instead of opinions. Thus: &#039;n&#039; (the end of &#039;Esperanto and Lojban discussion&#039;)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s start with some comparative artificial linguistics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Nick Nicholas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A text in Volapk, Esperanto, Ido, and Interglossa. To avoid the usual Pater Noster, I translated a Suzanne Vega song. I do not guarantee my stylistics in Volapk and Ido.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The Volapk was corrected with the help of Dean Gahlon, and the corrected text with notes from both are found in the text below.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LANGUAGE (1987) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If language were liquid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it would be rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Instead here we are&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a silence more eloquent&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than any word could ever be&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Words are too solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t move fast enough&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;to catch the blur in the brain&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that flies by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to meet you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a timeless placeless place&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somewhere out of context&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and beyond all consequences&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s go back to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;on Little West Twelfth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it is not far away&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the river is there&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the sun and the space&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they are all laying low&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and we&#039;ll sit in the silence&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that comes rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t use words again&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t mean what I meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t say what I said&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They&#039;re just the crust of the meaning&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;with realms underneath&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never even moved through&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== PK (Volapk, 1879) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If pk binom-la flumlik&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ininjogom-v&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Plaso is binobs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in stil&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt; pkfikum&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ka evelo kanom vd anik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vds binoms tu fimik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no mufoms sto vifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;al begetn nekleilati&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; in zebm&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ailoveflitom ed egolom &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vipob oli kolkmn&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in top netimik netopik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;sempo pl zisim&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt; mov sukads valik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gegolobsd in bumot&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;len Balsetelik Vesda Smast&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no binom fagik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e flum binom us&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e sol e spads&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;valik nepleidoms [are unproud]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ed osiedobs in stil2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ainingonom ed egolom&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No odenugebob vdis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no maloms kelosi imalob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no pkoms kelosi ipkob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Binoms te lujal sima&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ko kinns diso&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pebemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo sgo pedugoll&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Nick: flumlik - I had vatik, wet [watery]. The original is liquid.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Dean: Your &#039;nebset&#039; [here] seems to be a noun form of nebsik=&#039;silence&#039;. My dictionary lists &#039;stil&#039; as a noun meaning &#039;silence&#039;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;Dean: interesting formation for &#039;blur&#039;, by the way! Nick: Lit. not-clear-thing. Cf. my Esp maldistintajxo. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGVO (Esperanto, 1887) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(An x means that the previous letter has a cap over it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se la lingvo estus likva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Anstatauxe cxi tie ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento pli elokventa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol iam povus ia ajn vorto &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vortoj tro solidas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ili ne movigxas suficxe rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la maldistintajxon en la cerbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu preterflugas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi sxatus renkonti vin&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ie ekster cxirkauxteksto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj trans cxiuj sekvoj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni reiru al la konstruajxo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cxe la Malgranda Okcidenta Dekdua&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi ne estas malproksime&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la rivero estas tie&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la suno kaj la spaco &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kusxas neefekte [not flashy] &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu enfluegas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vortojn denove&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne esprimas kion mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne diras kion mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Ili estas nur la krusto de la signifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegoj sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam tusxitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam perturbitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam ecx tramovitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Ido, 1907) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se linguo esus liquida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Vice hik ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento plu eloquenta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kam irgatempe povus irga vorto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vorti esas tro solida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;oli ne movas sat rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la desdistintajo en la cerbero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua preterflugas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi amus te renkontar&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ulube exter kuntexto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e trans omna konsequi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni retroirez ad la konstrukturo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;che Mikra Uesta Dekeduesma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol ne esas dista&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la rivero esas ibe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la suno e la spaco&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;omni jacas base&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua enfluegas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vorti itere&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne esprimas quon mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne diras quon mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Oli esas nur la krusto dil signifiko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegi sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Nultempe tusxita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe perturbita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe mem tramovita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interglossa, ancestor of Glosa, is interesting in that it emulates English &amp;amp; Chinese in having an isolative structure, and jettisoning the parts-of-speech distinctions endemic to flexional/agglutinative lingos. It is essentially Basic English in Greek; there are about 10 verbs, qualified by &#039;amplifiers&#039; ending in -o. Nouns are made distinct from (presumably) adverbs by being prefixed by a location preposition, a possessive, a numeral, or a &#039;general article&#039; like all, some, or the default &#039;u&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== U GLOSA (Interglossa, 1943) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Postulo u Glosa habe liquo;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re forto kine in.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Na habe loco para vice re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in no-Phono; Su dicte major&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;de pan Verba u Chron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Plu Verba habe stereo excesso.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no kine satio celero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;tendo u Rapo de no-Luce-re in Cerbera;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su kine tele in Aero plus apo. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volo habe syn Tu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in Topo minus Topo plus minus Chron,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;extra plu syn Logo-re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus tele pan Sequo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Peti Na kine verso a mi Cameri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;loco micro occidento Via mono du.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re no habe tele&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus u Potami habe loco apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;U Heli syn Volumo habe non-alto,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus na post gene sedi in no_Phono;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su forto kine in plus apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi no acte utilo plu Verba itero.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no dicte Re; Mi pre dicte.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no habe u Significo; Mi pre date.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu eque no major de Area de Significo&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;syn plu hypo mega Loco,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge acte sensitivo,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge micro mote,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cleisto zero tem ge kine trans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Despite my criticisms: there are some cute syntactic features in this Lingo. Take my translation of with realms underneath: with plural underneath big place. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan Derzhanski supplied a corresponding translation into Intal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Intal, 1970) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Si le linguo esud likvid&lt;br /&gt;
it vud influega&lt;br /&gt;
Vise to yen nos&lt;br /&gt;
in silentes maks elokvent&lt;br /&gt;
kam eni vort potud ever es&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Le vortos es tro solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non mova sat rapid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;por kapta le nebulaj nel serber&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel preterfluga e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volud vu renkontra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in sintemp sinlok lok&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somlok ekstra kontekst&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e ultra omni konsekvens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An le Min Oksident Desduesmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a le konstruktur let nos rivada&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;non es fern&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le river es ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le sun e le spas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les omnos yasa bas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e nos ve sida in le silentes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel influega e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi non ve uza vortos plus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non esprima ko mi esprimed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non dira ko mi dired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Es nur le krust del sens&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kun landegos sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp tokat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp perturbat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp mem tramovat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Bob&#039;s corresponding translation for Lojban. Not only does it allow comparison with the other ALs, but this particular text shows off a lot of features about Lojban. Bob comments on the translation, presents a literal English equivalent, and comments on the effort and its implications for artificial languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== (Lojban, 1991) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The translation is not quite as literal as Nick&#039;s appears to be (not being familiar with the other three ALs). I have tried to maintain a sense of the style, denotation, and connotation, of the words used. However, Lojban is NOT an Indo-European language, and certain things must be rephrased in order to be both (unambiguously) grammatical and to capture the meaning correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is less tolerant of metaphor than other languages, but does allow analytic metaphors (where the predicate place structures are semantically preserved in the combination).&lt;br /&gt;
# Nick describes the text as a song. I saw no apparent match in rhythm and/or syllable count between lines of the English and the AL versions. I presume therefore that the translation is in free verse and is not intended to match the music (which I don&#039;t know anyway).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mela&#039;e lu bangu li&#039;u ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi bangu cu litki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.inaja ri sutfle fi ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.iku&#039;i na go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.ili&#039;i nunsma semau ro valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;temau leka zanselsku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi valsi cu duksligu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na sutra co banzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le mu&#039;e kavbu le besysutra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi sutfau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi djica lenu penmi do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ca noda vi node&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ma&#039;inai rodi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ba&#039;o ro jagdimna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;u mi&#039;o xruti fi le dinju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pe vi la cmalu ke stici gaimoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i na&#039;e darno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le rirxe cu zvati&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le solri .e le vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cu no&#039;e se zgana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi&#039;o vu zutse va&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lei smaji poi sutflefau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .ai mi banoroi pilno loi valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na smuni lemi selsmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e na velsku lemi selsku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e pilka le smuni sekai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le baltutra nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi noroi se pencu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi se jicla&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi mecrai se pagre &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a literal English translation of the Lojban: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That represented by &amp;quot;Language&amp;quot;. New topic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Language is liquid,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;only if it (language) fast-flows to here.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But not-true, the latter.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Abstract-experiencing-of event-of-silence which-is-more-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than each (any) word,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;more-in the property of ameliorative(good)-being-expressed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Words are excess-solid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) are not quick such-that sufficient&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the abstract-achievement of capturing the brain-quick- thing&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which quickly-occurs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is-past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I desire the event of meeting you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;during no-when, at nowhere,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;according-to-reference-frame none&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the aftermath of all result-dooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Suggestion!) We return (ourselves-elliptical) to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which is at that called &#039;Little type-of West Twelfth- thing&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other-than far (it is - elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The river is at (it-elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun and the environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;are neutrally-other-than observed (neither extreme of observed/non-observed)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;We there-yonder sit in-environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;this (mass of) silence which swift-flowingly-happens &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I in-the-future-never use (of the mass of) Words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) do-not mean my thing-meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are-not forms-of-expressing my things-expressed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are skins of the meaning, characterized by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the grand-territory inside&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which never is touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never is stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never least-superlative passed-through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now a note/complaint/what have you which I think is most revealing of the nature and &#039;neutrality&#039; of the other languages. In the translations of the last verse, specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I won&#039;t use words again they don&#039;t mean what I mean they don&#039;t say what I say ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick translated both occurrences of English words &#039;mean&#039; and &#039;say&#039; with the same counterpart in each of the other three languages. But the English words do not denote the same thing. When a person says something, it is different from when words say something (in Lojban terms, the human is the expresser x1 of cusku, while the words are the medium of expression x4 of cusku). Likewise, the &amp;quot;meaning&amp;quot; of words is semantically distinct from the &amp;quot;meaning intention&amp;quot; of one who might use the words. This is intuitive to an English speaker, who knows the range of meaning of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If each of the other ALs use the same word to capture both senses of &amp;quot;mean&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;say&amp;quot;, then I assert that they are flawed and biased towards English and/or every other language that blurs these distinctions. I suspect that such blurring, if in other languages, will tend to be only in the culturally similar European ones. If Esperanto, Ido, and Volapk all borrowed European roots along with their complete semantic baggage, then those languages are going to be inherently less understandable to a non- European who does not share the cultural background.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a particularly insidious kind of bias because, as one Esperantist has pointed out, it seems that both the European and non-European are having &#039;the shared experience&#039; of acquiring the AL they both learn. But for one learner, it is predominantly a regularized, simplified, form of their own language; for the other, the subtle se- mantics needed for poetry is not shared. (This criticism applies more obviously for BASIC English, since people can easily see the confusing semantic range of the word-plus- preposition combinations that make that language work.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I do not claim that the difficulty is insurmountable. Certainly non-Europeans have written poetry in Esperanto that was understood and appreciated by Europeans, possibly in a way that is not as easily possible if the European had to learn the native language of the poet, which has a much heavier cultural/connotative load. I suspect that (European) speakers who can converse in Esperanto fluently with non-Europeans, and who therefore are thinking in Es- peranto rather than translating from their native language as they go, have largely bypassed this difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My points can be summarized as two:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. I agree with those that criticize ALs implicitly as being languages that people think they know after finishing the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. As a corollary, it is a disadvantage for an AL to be &#039;much like&#039; any other single language in particular. The speakers of that language have either a benefit or a handicap, depending on how you look at it; they have an easier time learning subtle features of the AL and a harder time recognizing the differences that MUST be present for it to be an effective intercultural communications tool. The former is an unfair bias; the latter calls into question whether the AL is suitable as an IL. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since I lead the Lojban effort, I of course (biasedly?) support Lojban as overcoming these issues. Lojban is just as easy to learn as other ALs with lots of regularity and simplification. But since the language is tied to a predicate grammar strikingly different from any other lan- guage, a speaker translating anything but the simplest statements must significantly reformulate the expression (as shown in the translation above) in order to properly express it in Lojban. The result is easily understood to another Lojban speaker, and indeed in back-translation, is not too difficult in English. But a Lojbanist MUST think clearly about what s/he is saying in order to even say the sentence; those who use other ALs do not necessarily do so. Thus, I think Lojban aids a learner in acquiring the &#039;different perspective&#039; of a second language, and a Lojbanist who gets by the initial hurdle of unfamiliar words and structures more rapidly acquires that added competence that is considered &#039;knowing&#039; a language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Lojbanic Fairy Tale ===&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following appears to be a lot of text, but it employs the repetition and simple syntax inherent to good fairy tales. Also, since the tale should be recognizable to most Lojbanists, it should be relatively easy to understand from a word-for word translation effort. I have made it still easier, by forcing line breaks at key grammatical boundaries. Give it a try; turn to the English translation later only if necessary.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani&lt;br /&gt;
: tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
: le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
:: seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jbobliku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section. This is the uncorrected letter which was actually sent, and has some minor semantics errors, though it should be understandable.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot. de&#039;i la&#039;e li so pi&#039;e pa vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi doi ti.pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda ledo xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko kanro&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;la silvian.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A la lojbangirz. Group Translation Project? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1982-1984, Jim Carter wrote extensively in the then- version of Loglan (he claimed an hour a day). Because the language was ill-defined, he used several non-standard usages, and the arguments over these non-standard usages were among the precipitating events for the political squabble that effectively destroyed the Institute (and still haunts us today).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before this happened, though, he wrote and published several pieces in Loglan, including at least two short stories. These stories were written in the language, not translated from English, although Jim did provide rough translations into English. The two stories, &amp;quot;The Welding Shop&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; are the most extensive writing ever in Loglan. As original works, they serve as a starting point for a Loglan literature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim has given us copyright release and permission to retranslate or update (or what have you) his texts into the current Lojban, and to use them as the basis for teaching materials and/or a reader. We intend to do so. Or rather, I would like to see you, the Lojban community, make this effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a trivial job. Some of Jim&#039;s variant constructs were not added to Lojban. Jim tended to use vocabulary based on the old Loglan vocabulary, which was studded with gawdawful tanru. Lojban, of course, has some 40% more gismu and a richer grammar than the earlier Log- lan; hence its expressive power is greater and the phrasing should be changed. Another difficulty factor is length. The stories are not short, running several typewritten pages, perhaps 170 and 90 paragraphs, respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until the effort is completed, we are asking everyone to try their hand at this. Participate to any extent you choose. Translate a word, a sentence, or the entire paragraph. Even the most novice among you can reinvent a tanru or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your contribution to us, and we&#039;ll collate ideas and print the best result(s). People who submit a full paragraph translation will be given additional paragraphs to work on, and we&#039;ll publish these results as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suggestions - please provide an English equivalent for whatever you submit so that reviewers know what part of the text you are expressing, and can check their (and your) understanding. Make tanru or lujvo as you choose. If you don&#039;t know how to use rafsi in making lujvo use the ex- panded form of replacing the final vowel of each but the last term with &#039;y&#039;, or even hyphenate the gismu together so we know you want a lujvo instead of a tanru. (An example: rilti-cadzu-bende -&amp;gt; riltycadzybende = marching-band).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Feel free to comment and suggest other conventions. This is an experiment and we don&#039;t know the best ways for it to work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The complete result will be assembled into a story, checked by Jim Carter to ensure he is willing to have his name on the result, and published as a whole. All contributors to the final text will be noted for historical purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first paragraph of the &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; story (which is a sci- ence fiction story of a sort), previously offered to the computer mailing-list &amp;quot;lojban-list&amp;quot;, will serve as start- off and example. The process of preparing the paragraph is shown, to give you an idea of what to expect with later paragraphs. The Lojban effort was by Sylvia Rutiser. Since only one person worked on this effort, everyone is invited to comment on the tanru she chose, or to suggest corrections. Then go to work on the second paragraph, which follows thereafter. Deadline for publication submittals is approximately 20 May 1991 (though we&#039;ll consider others received later in preparing the final version).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What we&#039;re providing: the first paragraph of the Akira story, as translated into English in two styles. The first is roughly identical to Jim&#039;s original English translation, and is somewhat colloquial. The second is an attempt to structurally convey Jim&#039;s original Loglan (with necessary corrections) in &amp;quot;Lojban-structured&amp;quot; English, the style in which we typically print &amp;quot;literal translations&amp;quot; of Lojban. tanru are literally translated; many or most of these need to be re-invented or at least thought about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira reeled in the fish to his inflatable boat. It was fat, spotted, silvery, and delicious. He put it in his icebox. The oven-like sun cooked his brown skin, and he retired under the canopy. But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder. Someone floated down on a parachute. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe the pilot needs to be rescued.&amp;quot; He threw up the kite-sail into the wind and sailed toward him. He thought, &amp;quot;This will make a great (bold) story when I tell it. My young friends will love it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.akir. (he-5) turn-pull(s) the fish to his-5 air-full boat. It (the fish) is fat and round-marked and silver-like and delicious.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He-5 puts it (the fish) inside his-5 ice-box. The oven-sun cooks his-5 brown skin and therefore- motivatedly recur-self-safe-puts (himself) under the shadow-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which-is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something-4 down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by .akir., who thinks: Perhaps the flyer-driver dangerous-without-makes needingly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by narrator: He-5 throws the flyer-sail at the breeze and sail-goes towards it-4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by him-5: It (the event-just-mentioned = the danger- without-making) will bravely be a history of-something-3 by me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My young friends will long-time-be-fond-of it-3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: Sylvia says that she is not sure that her tanru/lujvo are the best, and was most dissatisfied by the metaphor for falling by parachute. Feel free to suggest better ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Sylvia&#039;s text, as submitted uneditted. As printed, it has some semantic errors. After wards, Bob discusses these errors, and suggests corrections. But the text is grammatical, and should be readable without the corrections, especially if you&#039;ve read the intermediate English above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti .i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska .i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe .i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a .ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani .i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru .i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru .i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for Sylvia&#039;s back-translation of her effort, with comments from Bob. Bob has left some questions open for further suggestions and improvements. The analysis may show that translation is neither a simple, nor an absolutely certain process (but it&#039;s a fun way to learn the language).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the fish (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: I don&#039;t much like &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;; if you don&#039;t know what it means from context and experience, you&#039;d be unlikely to guess. Lojban has a gismu &amp;quot;jendu&amp;quot; that could be useful. Also the need to use &amp;quot;seka&#039;a&amp;quot; indicates that &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot; has obviously got the wrong place structure. To make my objection more obvious, here are two alternate sentences with different objects than a fish:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the knob (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the pier (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These make sense with implication of a totally different meaning of &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;. Perhaps muvdu would be a useful component of the tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The-recent-it is plump and round-marked and silver-color.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Akira has been assigned to ko&#039;u, ra can only refer to the fish. We need to think about what we want skari to mean. Does &amp;quot;ti skari&amp;quot; mean &amp;quot;This is a color&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;This is colored&amp;quot;, or are these the same thing? A safe way would be the tanru &amp;quot;skari rijnysi&#039;a&amp;quot; &amp;quot;colorishly silver-like&amp;quot;. Any other ideas? The original had &amp;quot;delicious&amp;quot; as another property of the fish, but this should be easy for someone to fix.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now puts last-it at it5&#039;s cold-box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The English uses &#039;it&#039; here, but for clarity, I would use le finpe instead of ri. Akira probably put it inside, not just &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; the bold-box, but this may be picky. You could add the word nenri to the end to be clear (at the cold-box insides), or use lekseltanxe, putting the fish at the cold box-contents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Figuratively (the oven sun is a cooker of it5&#039;s brown skin ) end figurative. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole sentence might be figurative, or maybe just the first tanru; I would take sunburn as a result of sun- cooking skin. Sylvia has marked it correctly for a whole- sentence-figurative. With toknu simsa solri (oven-like sun), the figurative markers would not be necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora points out that tanru can be both restrictive and non-restrictive, and prefers an explicit relative clause instead of &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u bunre skapi&amp;quot;. The existing text could be taken to imply that the sun cooked Akira&#039;s brown skin, but had no effect on the paler portions of his hide; this would be a restrictive interpretation: &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi poi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin that is brown. The more plausible interpretation is &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi noi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin, which incidentally is brown). If nothing else, this example shows how ambiguous tanru are, and yet how easily they can be diambiguated when necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade because of (last sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has translated &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; as a logical connective between two sentences. But given that a motivational &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; occurs later in the English, it should probably be reflected in the connective:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and-therefore-motivating it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even combine the two sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le toknu simsa solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi semu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The oven-like sun cooks of it5&#039;s brown skin, motivating the event of it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the original for the last sumti was &amp;quot;canopy&amp;quot;, a more exact tanru might be selctino drudi &amp;quot;shadowing-roof&amp;quot;. Other possibilities? &amp;quot;Under-comes&amp;quot; is a bit more limited than Jim&#039;s original &amp;quot;recur-self-safe-puts (himself)&amp;quot; - the recurrence and the safety are lost. Can someone do better?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now looks at the up-thing because of something1 now makes a line related to smoke which-incidentally is across the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fe is superfluous, as is the ge&#039;u; the latter is reasonable though, in that elidable terminators are welcome when they help break up a complex structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re in a narrative. The ca on the bridi therefore means that story-time is the same as the previous sentence. Thus Sylvia&#039;s sentence translates as &amp;quot;It5 at the same time looks at ... which is just then making a line ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looking at the original, we can see that a bit is missing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which- is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Suddenly&amp;quot; is suksa. Jim&#039;s original used &amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; (implying &amp;quot;bazi&amp;quot;) where Sylvia used &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;. But one other things is wrong. Akira looks up because of the moving across the sky and the explosion - indeed, it was probably the latter that caught his attention, and he later noticed the line of smoke and inferred the motion from this. Sylvia has exiled the explosion to a separate sentence that has no causal connection to the looking up, and Akira is looking up because of the smoke-line. What she has said makes perfect sense, but is not what the original said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My attempt (making minimal effort - I could probably do better, but this is your project):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.izibo suksa fa lenu ko&#039;u gapcatlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.imu&#039;ibo da zbasu lo danmo linji noi ragve le tsani ku&#039;o gi&#039;ebabo spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Shortly, is sudden, the event of it5&#039;s above-looking.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is because of somethingx making a smoke-line, which is across the sky, and-then exploding characterized by intense-illumination and lightning-noise. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note my non-English phrasing of the first part, due to &amp;quot;sudden&amp;quot; not normally being an English predicate. Note also that &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; that is required to terminate the noi relative clause. Otherwise, the translation would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because of the event of somethingx making a smoke-line, which crosses the sky and-then explodes characterized by intense-illumination and lightning- noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The smoke-line did not explode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something1 now explodes (with intense illumination) and lightning-caused type of noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Sylvia&#039;s version, the sentences should probably be joined with &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; to be logically correct, since &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; is by definition a logical variable. Pragmatically, what she did was OK, though - in non-logical argument, a listener would understand that the &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; in both sentences is the same. The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; says that this is happening at the same time as the previous sentence (i.e. when something makes a line). It is better left tenseless (the English &amp;quot;and now ...&amp;quot; would typically equate to &amp;quot;and then immediately&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something2 now slowly cloth-falls.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; again indicates simultaneity with the previous sentence. Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;Something down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&amp;quot; would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de nitflevoi sepi&#039;o lo falbu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora suggests &amp;quot;cloth-brake-fall&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de bukyjabre farlu. .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira now thinks &amp;quot;an airplane-captain now needs an event of being assisted&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has Akira making a bolder guess as to what was flying before it exploded. It may not have been an airplane, and indeed, since this is a science fiction story, I suspect it isn&#039;t (I didn&#039;t check). Jim&#039;s original tanru was &amp;quot;flyer-driver&amp;quot; or volsazri&amp;quot;. Again, I think the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is unnecessary, and more Lojbanically unspecified in favor of &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. Need for assistance is a rather unintense need for rescue, though technically correct (the faller needs assistance in &amp;quot;continuing to live&amp;quot;). Perhaps someone can come up with a better expression (consider &amp;quot;ckape&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru It5 now lifts the sail at the location of the breeze and sail goes to earlier-it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; - a lot happening simultaneously in Sylvia&#039;s story. &amp;quot;de&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le farlu&amp;quot; are clearer than the vague &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot;, which could refer to a lot of things at this point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has misunderstood Jim&#039;s description of the means of propoulsion. It is a &amp;quot;kite-sail&amp;quot; which Akira &amp;quot;throws into the wind&amp;quot;. This sounds rather exotic, while Sylvia&#039;s boat sounds like an ordinary sailboat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How about something like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u renro le volfalnu seri&#039;a le nu kavbu le ca&#039;erbi&#039;e .i fankla le farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 throws the flying-sail causing the state of catching the pusher-breeze. Sail-goer to the faller.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 thinks &amp;quot;a now-event is going to be a brave story- subject told by me. The set of my young-friends will for a long time be fond of last-it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is vaguer than Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;a now event&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;the event-just-mentioned&amp;quot;, which, following Akira&#039;s thoughts as quoted, is specifically &amp;quot;the rescue&amp;quot;. If you take the quotes as literal thoughts, &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the event-just- mentioned&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also have a little trouble with &amp;quot;a brave story- subject&amp;quot;, though Jim did something similar to convey &amp;quot;bold story&amp;quot;; if the story-subject is bold, it is probably a person - yet the story is described as about the rescue, not about either the rescuer or rescuee, either of whom could have been brave. I suspect &amp;quot;banli&amp;quot; is better than &amp;quot;virnu&amp;quot; for bold, or at least a compound of the two &amp;quot;vribanli&amp;quot;, and modifying &amp;quot;lisri&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;se lisri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;bazu&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;will for a long time&amp;quot;, but rather &amp;quot;will a long time later&amp;quot;. I think Sylvia wanted &amp;quot;baze&#039;u&amp;quot; &amp;quot;in the future during a long interval&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sets do not normally perform actions or have feelings like &amp;quot;being fond of&amp;quot;. Sylvia wants a mass &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le&#039;i&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; unfortunately refers back to the set of friends, giving us a set noted for self-love (truly unusual in a set). Jim&#039;s original assigned the rescue to a pro- sumti somewhere between &amp;quot;di&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ko&#039;i&amp;quot; (something3/it3), but we are in someone&#039;s thoughts here, and I suspect anaphora are not in good order. (It also is unclear whether the friends are fond of the rescue or the story about the rescue in Jim&#039;s original.) &amp;quot;The rescue&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;the story&amp;quot; should be used here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia&#039;s effort was remarkable, given the complexity of the text and that she had little or no help; she did use the old parser to check her work. We are not expecting the average Lojbanist to do this well on a first attempt. Translation is non-trivial as an exercise in language use. Especially when you try to capture the style and sentence complexity of the original, as Sylvia did. Jim did not use trivial grammar in his story. When you first write in Lojban, give it your best shot, but expect to make lots of errors. You&#039;ll find yourself learning quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, feel free to comment on this text, or even use the pieces Sylvia and Bob came up with along with your own ideas to come up with your own version of the paragraph. Useful comments and a revised translation may appear in next issue. Then brave souls can try all or part of the following, which is the second paragraph of the story. The first version again is colloquial English, and the second, Lojbanized-English, back-translated from the original old- Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parachute was floating in the sea, but the pilot was nowhere to be seen. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe he drowned&amp;quot;. He pulled the parachute into the stern of the boat, and he discovered a harness containing a radio and a knife and a flashlight. But nobody was wearing it. He called, &amp;quot;Hey, pilot! Where are you? Say something, because I don&#039;t see you.&amp;quot; But nobody answered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New paragraph medium-time-offset the fall-cloth floats to the sea. and in contrast the flyer-driver is-not-seen. Said by it5 (Akira): mild-belief (perhaps) it2 past water- breathed. Said by narrator: it5 inside-pulls the fall- cloth to the behind-part of the boat. It5 discovers something1 which incidentally-is-a-joined-garment, one which is joined to a radio and a knife and a hand-light- device. In contrast, no something2 garment-uses something1 (the harness). Said by it5: &amp;quot;Attention the flyer-driver: At where? (Imperative) Cry out and there- fore *motivationally I see you.&amp;quot; Said by narrator: In contrast, no *something1 respondingly-talks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notes on some errors in Jim&#039;s original: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The motivational causal seems like the wrong choice of causal. Crying out won&#039;t motivate the seeing. But be careful. Other causal choices may be no better, and you may want a non-causal to express Jim&#039;s intent by the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Be careful of your &#039;somethings&#039; in this passage; unfortunately Jim didn&#039;t. In this particular case, for example, either 1) use a different &#039;something&#039; than &amp;quot;something1&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;something2&amp;quot;, 2) use the UI cmavo that cancels anaphora (but this cancels the it5 assignment too), 3) correctly use .ije between sentences using the same referent of something, 4) or assign a specific &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;something&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, here is Bob&#039;s quarterly in-Lojban essay. As before, no translation is given; this is the &#039;prize&#039; that is only for people who dare. (We&#039;ll look at and respond to any questions, responses, or translation attempts that you send us, but you have to try first.) Bob is writing directly in Lojban, and trying to &#039;think in the language&#039; rather than express ideas in English and translate them. The topic this issue turned out to be more timely than Bob thought it would be when he came up with the idea for it several months ago. Enjoy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o pucaki le prula&#039;i ke xamoi masti ku mi rirci zgana ja pensi le cmene po&#039;u la. ku,EIT. .i mi ca cfari lenu pensi lo sidbo noi binxo co mutce vajni roma&#039;a .ije mi pensi le sidbo noi srana la djim. braun. noi mi sinma .ije mi ca djica lenu ci&#039;arsku le sidbo fu la me &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i le ki&#039;a sidbo vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lu&#039;e le sidbo ca glico jenai lojbo valsi .isemu&#039;ibo mi troci co finti lo jbovla .i .ei le jbovla terfanva &amp;quot;zoi .gic. hero .gic.&amp;quot; goi ko&#039;a .i kiku mi ca ciska&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pu pamoi fa lezu&#039;o mi sisku le gicyvla smuni du&#039;o le glico vlamarcku .i mi binxo lo jimpe be leza&#039;i le valsi cu so&#039;imei smuni .i mi ca troci lenu cusku loi smuni gi&#039;e fanva ri la lojban. .ibabo mi ka&#039;e casnu leka la djim. braun me ko&#039;a pe&#039;i .i de&#039;e velsku lei smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pamai le me ko&#039;a mormuprai goi ko&#039;e selranmi gi&#039;e tsali je virnu ke cevni joi nanmu .i remai le gicvla cu smuni roda poi nanmu gi&#039;e tarti le simsa be ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(to .iku&#039;i la xeros. cu ba&#039;e ninmu selranmi fi loi xelso gi&#039;e na&#039;e me ko&#039;a .i le glibau cu ponse le drata je kampu bo krasi valsi poi smuni le ba&#039;e ninmu poi me ko&#039;a .i la lojban. ka&#039;e pilno lo valsi pamei poi smuni le sidbo secau .o&#039;a leka smuni le selcinse toi)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cimai .uinai le gicyvla cu smuni so&#039;i drata .i smuni roda poi vajni prenu to ji&#039;a cficku rajraipre toi zi&#039;a poi tatmo&#039;a zanmupli prenu zi&#039;a .oi poi nujdja klesi .i le&#039;i smuni cu mutce vrici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o do smuni ma fau lenu do skicu de sepi&#039;o le gicyvla po&#039;u ko&#039;a .i cai na&#039;eka&#039;e jimpe le gicyvla .i mi ba&#039;e na xusra le nu la djim braun. cu nujdja zo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;u mupli leka lezu&#039;o fanva lo valsi cu mutce nandu .i mi cuxna pa smuni be le gicyvla be&#039;o poi seldji .i mi pilno le jbovla poi velsku le selcu&#039;a smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi jinvi lenu le vajni sidbo po&#039;e ko&#039;a cu si&#039;o lo prenu cu pijvri tarti .i mi jinvi lenu la djim. braun pu mupli leka pijvritai .iki&#039;ubo tu&#039;e la djim. braun. zivle piso&#039;e leri nunjmive lepu&#039;u finti .i ri ki&#039;u le bangu ka rutni ku to&#039;e tersinma le certu noi la djim. braun. cu nitcu joi djica lenu ke&#039;a sarji tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a le ca natmi gunma sonci cu mupli leka pijvritai kei fau le jamna be le rakyjecta .i .a&#039;o ma&#039;a selctu fi loika pijvritai gi&#039;e morfu&#039;i tatri bacapiso&#039;iroi le vo&#039;a nunji&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Yellow-hair, and the three bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goldilocks and the Three Bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New topic) (Open indicator scope) I know culturally: The three person-bears are nested (in a house), associated- with-site the trees.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib. goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The indeed-large-bear which-is called Father-Bear is assigned as it1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib. goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The not-really-large-bear which-is called Mother-Bear is assigned as it2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib. goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The opposite-of-large-bear which-is called Child-Bear is assigned as it3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Once upon a time&amp;quot; the three bears lived in a house by the trees, the biggest bear, Papa Bear, who we&#039;ll call #1, the medium-size bear, Mama Bear, who we&#039;ll call #2, and the smallest bear, Baby Bear, who we&#039;ll call #3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) Each of the bears possesses one of the eating cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s cup is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s cup is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s cup is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each bear has a bowl. #1&#039;s bowl is large. #2&#039;s bowl is medium-size. #3&#039;s bowl is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sitter-chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s chair is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s chair is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s chair is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sitting chair. #1&#039;s chair is large. #2&#039;s chair is medium-size. #3&#039;s chair is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sleeper-beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s bed is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s bed is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s bed is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sleeping bed. #1&#039;s bed is large. #2&#039;s bed is medium-size. #3&#039;s bed is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears are awake&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and fill the cups with (some-of)-the wet-grain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivatedly-because the-event-of eating the first-meal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, the grain is excess&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the property of warm-ness by-standard the-process-of- eating&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;by-reason-therefore the-activity-of the bears walking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Beautiful day. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears awaken, and fill their cups with porridge in order to eat breakfast. But the porridge is too hot to eat, justifying the bears going for a walk. It&#039;s a nice day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The child, who-is called Yellow-hair, assigned to it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;looks at the inside of the house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;No person is inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;therefore-motivating the-event-of it5 inside-walking. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The child, Goldilocks, who we&#039;ll call #5, looks into the house. Nobody is there, so #5 walks inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is hungry&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- eating-of-the-grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-eats of-it1&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-indeed-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-eats of-it2&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-opposite-of-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-eats of-it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the grain) is-perfect in the property of warmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 eating all-of it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three cups. #5 is hungry, and she therefore decides to eat the porridge. First #5 tries to eat #1&#039;s porridge, but it is too hot. Second, #5 tries to eat #2&#039;s porridge, but it is too cold. Third, #5 tries to eat #3&#039;s porridge. It&#039;s perfectly warm, and she therefore eats all of the porridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sitting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-sits-on it1&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-indeed-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-sits-on it2&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-opposite-of-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-sits-on it3&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the chair) is-perfect in the property of highness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 sitting-on it3&#039;s chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;causing-therefore the-event-of it (the chair) breaks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three chairs. #5 is tired, and she therefore decides to sit. First #5 tries to sit on #1&#039;s chair, but it is too high. Second, #5 tries to sit on #2&#039;s chair, but it is too low. Third, #5 tries to sit on #3&#039;s chair. It&#039;s perfect in height, and she therefore sits in #3&#039;s chair, causing it to break.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is much-tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sleepily-resting-on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-rests-on it1&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-indeed-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-rests-on it2&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-opposite-of-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-rests-on it3&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the bed) is-perfect in the property of firmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-activity-of it5 sleeping. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three beds. #5 is very tired, and she therefore decides to rest. First #5 tries to rest on #1&#039;s bed, but it is too hard. Second, #5 tries to rest on #2&#039;s bed, but it is too soft. Third, #5 tries to rest on #3&#039;s bed. It&#039;s perfectly firm, and she therefore sleeps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears return and want the grain. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears return and want their porridge. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) It1 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something1 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bowl, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something2 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot; #2 looks at its bowl, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something3 ate ALL of my grain.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bowl, and says in its soft-voice, &amp;quot;Something ate ALL of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something12 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#1 looks at its chair, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something22 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its chair, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something33 DESTRUCTIVELY sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its chair, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something destructively sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bed, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something23 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its bed, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 was-and-IS_NOW sleepily-resting-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bed, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something slept and IS SLEEPING in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) Because of this (it3&#039;s looking and saying), it5 is awake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears look at it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which-reason-justifies the-event-of it5 runningly-leaving.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears never-intersection-later see it5. This causes #5 to be awake. The bears look at #5, justifying #5&#039;s hasty departure. The bears never again see #5. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;End of text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The End.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The preceding was among other things an exercise in causal constructions. It is worthwhile to examine closely when each causal was used, and how it affected the translation. Some of the choices were marginal (and some indeed were changed during editing of this text).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the insertion of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;sipna&amp;quot; in those sentences that refer to the bed being slept on. You don&#039;t need a bed to sleep, but you do need to be upon something to rest-on it. Place structures are important in Lojban. (Without the &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, sentences translate like &amp;quot;it5 tryingly-sleeps in-some-way-associated-with it2&#039;s bed&amp;quot; which gets the point across, but none to exactly. In pragmatic situations, of course, this version would be correctly understood given the context, (which is why guessing at place structures usually works).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One further change would probably be justified, but was not made. Goldilocks, as the story progresses &amp;quot;troci broda&amp;quot; &amp;quot;tryingly-does-something&amp;quot; in John&#039;s text. This becomes especially cumbersome with the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; construction, because &amp;quot;troci sipna vreta&amp;quot; groups in pairs from the left, giving &amp;quot;tryingly-sleeps kind-of-rests&amp;quot;, losing some symmetry by dividing the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; tanru. To right-group, you need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci ke sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
troci sipna bo vreta &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which identically mean: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tryingly sleepily-rests&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is more easily solved using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;, a word especially valuable with tanru involving &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;, and certain other words that link actions/events with intentions (&#039;intentional verbs&#039; in English). Inserting &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; inverts the tanru, making it translate much more clearly into English (and probably causing increased clarity in the Lojban as well). This gives the equivalent of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sipna vreta troci&lt;br /&gt;
sleepingly-rests-on attempts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but with the place structure of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, the final element of the tanru, determining the interpretation of the trailing sumti (the bed). The essential claim is that of trying, not of sleepingly-resting, which is the norm with intentional statements. Using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; preserves &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; as the essential claim, while allowing access to the trailing place of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci co sipna vreta le ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tries to sleepingly-rest-on the bed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was not made in the story because the vaguer tanru is sufficiently understandable given the context, and we&#039;re reluctant to make unnecessary changes in an translator&#039;s work. Besides, it gave the opportunity for this mini-lesson in &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;. (There is a more clear example of &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; given in the next commentary.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This letter was written about a month before Sylvia&#039;s attempt at the Carter paragraph. The difference is plain: she makes a lot of minor word choice errors because she had only just started studying the cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;At the locus of (non-Lojban) &amp;quot;2904 Beau Lane&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot;tu&#039;i&amp;quot; is the correct choice, not &amp;quot;di&#039;o&amp;quot;, for location on a letter. Also, to be more correct, &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; should be used on the &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; quote (giving the thing indicated by the address instead of the address), or optionally the new non- Lojban-name marker &amp;quot;la&#039;o&amp;quot;, which has the same grammar as &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; - this then treats the address as the name of a location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;i la&#039;eli so pi&#039;e pa vau coi doi ti.pitr. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;associated-with-date the-referent-of the number 9/1 (9 January), greetings O T.Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, the &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; isn&#039;t needed, since a date is merely a string of numbers. The &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; greetings here attaches to the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; on the previous line, since no &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; was used between the two lines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda le do xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob requested the event of my responding to your letter which is possessed by the Christ celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; would be more correct, giving the letter &amp;quot;loosely associated with&amp;quot; the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A mass of snow which a-while-ago fell, now melts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would have used &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot;, since she has a specific mass of snow in mind (the stuff on the ground here), but this isn&#039;t wrong, and indeed is a good usage of tense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun is an illuminator, observed by me. (I can see the sun shining.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission of the news which is the-event-of Athelstan (it1) went to Utah via mode his car motivated by the-event-of he desires the- event-of-talking to the Lojban-users at-specific-locus- Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In colloquial English, this is still complicated:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob just told me the news that Athelstan went to Utah in his car in order to talk to some Utah Lojbanists. and the sentence could have been simplified a bit to match that colloquial translation. Let&#039;s break this sentence up so it is more understandable:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
(New paragragh)                                            &lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  le nuzba po&#039;u                                            &lt;br /&gt;
     lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a                            &lt;br /&gt;
          pu klama                                         &lt;br /&gt;
    	     la iutas.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	     fu leko&#039;a karce                               &lt;br /&gt;
    	     mu&#039;i lenu                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        ko&#039;a djica                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     lenu tavla                            &lt;br /&gt;
    		       le lobypli                          &lt;br /&gt;
    		       sedi&#039;o la iutas.                    &lt;br /&gt;
The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission      &lt;br /&gt;
  of the news which is                                     &lt;br /&gt;
     the-event-of Athelstan (it1)                          &lt;br /&gt;
          went                                             &lt;br /&gt;
    	     to Utah                                       &lt;br /&gt;
    	     via mode his car                              &lt;br /&gt;
    	     motivated by the-event-of                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        he desires                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     the-event-of-talking                  &lt;br /&gt;
    		       to the Lojban-users                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		       at-specific-locus-Utah.             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure of news includes a source, so the outer-most selbri using &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t needed (I&#039;ll demonstrate in a moment). It also wasn&#039;t the main claim of the sentence, which was the news itself. In addition, &amp;quot;te benji&amp;quot; was a bad choice for Bob: &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; is a transmission of which this 3rd place is the origin. In this context, Bob is the first place of &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; - the transmit origin was somewhere in the house in Fairfax VA. A final error is in the places of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Sylvia here has equated the news (le nuzba) with the event, which is really &amp;quot;le se nuzba&amp;quot;, the 2nd place of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Here&#039;s Bob&#039;s version:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te nuzba lenu la. .atlstan. pu klama la .iutas. fu lera karce semu&#039;i lenu tavla le lobypli pe la .iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Bob was-just a-source-of-news of-the-event Athelstan went to-Utah in-his-car, motivated-to the-event-of talking-to the Lojban-users of Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even this non-colloquial translation is only slightly longer than the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo (New para.) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I now try the event of learning the set of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using the &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; construction mentioned in &amp;quot;The Three Bears&amp;quot; commentary, this would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi ca troci co cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I am now a tryer of-type learner-of-the-set-of-cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Either version is acceptable, and I won&#039;t state a preference. Nora prefers Sylvia&#039;s version, since it explicitly uses the place structure of &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, and she prefers to avoid tanru in favor of place structure usage whenever it is not excessively burdensome (and &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; is not much longer than &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Forgive me for the-amount-of bizarre-grammar closely-associated-with motivationally because of the referent-of-the-last-sentence (the trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colloquially:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please forgive me for the bizarre grammar that results from this (trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;po&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;; we usually use &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; for physical possession or a very close association. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; indicates a much looser association used with most phrases. Also, I doubt that the bizarre grammar was really motivated by the learning. The learning might be a reason, though: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leni cizra gerna pe ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) (Petition!) Your weather is pleasing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;.a&#039;o&amp;quot; (hope) seems like the more likely attitude, since there is little T.Peter can do about his weather. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko kanro &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Be healthy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi la silvian&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Greetings, Sylvia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She had not yet learned &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot;, and greeted instead of parted. A &#039;correct&#039; letter closer conveying her intent is &amp;quot;co&#039;omi&#039;e&amp;quot; (Partings!, I am ...) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael uses much more complex (and bizarre at times) grammar than Sylvia. He asked for a letter of his to be run through the parser, showing the result. I chose a short one that could be easily cleaned up. (The old parser does not properly handle attitudinals and tense compounds, and some newer cmavo, which Michael uses a lot of; therefore I have to manually add the deleted text to the parse output).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ze&#039;i was in Michael&#039;s original, was not grammatical nor particularly necessary, so I deleted it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is Michael&#039;s intended translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is from Michael Helsem a letter dated 18 November 1990. Hi y&#039;all. Here&#039;s some more money. Unfortunately it&#039;s less than I would prefer on account of my forthcoming trip to Mexico. Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? I&#039;ll get in touch with him maybe before I go... Here&#039;s a new palindrome: &amp;quot;Eureka! vagina-near!&amp;quot; - which is a bit more useful than the others of the pattern ...(ahem). Anyway, hope the others come through. Michael. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, intentions are only half the story. Here&#039;s how Bob reads the letter:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono ({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The soon utterances, from Michael Helsem, are-a-letter dated 18,00B,090 (18 million odd in some base greater than 12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&#039;o&amp;quot; is a &#039;real number&#039;, normally meaning &#039;thousands&#039; (depending on the normal place for inserting commas), used in writing large numbers. It can also replace 3 zeroes in large numbers such as business reports. Michael wanted &amp;quot;pi&#039;e&amp;quot;, the non-decimal separator, giving &amp;quot;18/B/90&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; is the non-base-10 digit for 11 (November).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i coi do&#039;opezi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings, you and others who are a short-distance-in-time away from ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; is used only for distances in time (now); in the past it could be either time or space distance, but this changed when we did the final tense grammar. This isn&#039;t necessarily clear in the published cmavo list, and we will be clarifying it in later versions (see also the sheet of changes enclosed with this issue). &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; is the corresponding space-time distance, but I would prefer &amp;quot;ve&#039;i&amp;quot; (lexeme VEhA) which indicates an interval (you and others in the space around ... [you implied])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Permission!) (Observative) Added-things type-of commander- gifts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No idea about what the attitudinal is, or for that matter, what the sentence means. Given the translation, I might conclude a typo for dinseldunda (money-gifts). This suggests that the money he sent was a donation rather than a voluntary balance contribution (the distinction is important), which is not reflected in the English. (We assumed a balance contribution). &amp;quot;selpleji&amp;quot; (something- paid) would be clearer for a balance contribution, or depending on how you philosophically look at it, something involving &amp;quot;se fatri pagbu&amp;quot; (distributed-part = share)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(I regret - self oriented!) The-last-sumti-it (you-and- others-near-in-time) is less than something1 which I, the something, want, less-than because my soon-future Mexican territory (*short-time-interval) event-of-travelling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would tend to take self-oriented-regret as an apology to himself, but this is to be determined by usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s clear from the translation that the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; was intended to refer to the money-gift, but there is no sumti in that sentence to refer to. &amp;quot;le jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le selyle&#039;i&amp;quot; would have served. Then, of course, Michael is using a comparison, and should therefore have some reference to amounts, so make that &amp;quot;le ni jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le ni selyle&#039;i&amp;quot;. (Two parallel usages for the comparatives seem to be possible, and equally valid: The amount-of-A is-less-than the amount-of-B in-property-C, by-amount-D, and A is-less- than B in-the-amount-of-C, by-amount-D.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael seems to like SOV (subject-object-verb constructions); very non-English but perfectly acceptable. The something1 must be an amount of some kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; was excellent, and grammatically vital. Without it, the &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; would have been attached to the relative clause bridi, involving &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;; this comes out like &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want because of my trip.&amp;quot;, as compared to his correct &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want, because of my trip.&amp;quot; It&#039;s in samples like these that we see how complex language is in general, and thus realize that even a simple language like Lojban requires thought in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what the intent of the &amp;quot;ze&#039;i&amp;quot; was, but any tense inflections must be before the beginning of the selbri, not in the middle of it. Note that &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; is any self-movement via a route with no origin or destination implied; it does not mean &amp;quot;travel&amp;quot; in the norma English sense. Normally, you will use &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; if you are specifically going somewhere. In this case, however, it worked well, since the tanru modifier, Mexican-territory, is a reasonable brief description of the route involved in his intended trip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems clear here that Michael thought you need an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; before a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;. You don&#039;t, and the parser thinks he had a partial sentence with no body.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) I to-you am-grateful for-the transferred address of Athelstan, who incidentally is identical to now- for-some-unspecified-time-interval far-from (Please clarify, I&#039;m confused!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A very strange SOV construction, with two sumti before and one after, not too common in any language that I know of. The relative phrase is perfectly grammatical and even vaguely understandable (I&#039;d have guessed his intent without a translation), but the semantics are all wrong. Michael wanted &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;, for a phrasal construction, and &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot; to ask the question:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. ne caze&#039;evi ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally is associated with during-an- unspecified-interval-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This could still be asking when as well as where, since there is a time and a location tag in the sumti tcita &amp;quot;caze&#039;evi&amp;quot;, so even more clear would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-an-unspecified- interval is-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these is quite the same as his English translation, which was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This might best be expressed as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati tu(pevu) xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-for-an-unspecified- interval is-at somewhere else (besides where you and I are) (which-is-a-long-distance) Is this true?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this version, the &amp;quot;pevu&amp;quot; is optional if there was a possiblilty that Michael wanted to differentiate between &amp;quot;still gone in Europe&amp;quot; from perhaps &amp;quot;still gone visiting his family in Baltimore&amp;quot;, which would be a kind of &amp;quot;still gone from your nearby presence&amp;quot;, implied by the greeting vocative. But I wouldn&#039;t be so perverse as to misinterpret him that wildly, would I? (Actually, I might. If you use strange and complex grammatical constructions and semantic usages without mastering the basic ones, I am forced to stretch my mind quite far to try to figure you out.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I, Athelstan, good-interrupt (Probably!) before my yonder_far-time-interval.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; is correctly Athelstan, though it might not be if some of my various alternates had been used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what his tanru means, and can&#039;t even guess how to correct it, except that I strongly suspect that he wanted &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; (positive connotation) instead of &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (good for ...) For his English, I would use &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot;, or actually &amp;quot;troci co benji&amp;quot;, since he clearly isn&#039;t sure he actually can get in touch with Athelstan before he leaves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final tanru is understandable after I see his English, not before. Why doesn&#039;t he use the plain equivalent of his English: &amp;quot;pu lenu mi cliva&amp;quot;. (I repeat my puzi remark about misintepreting strange usages. The burden of communicating, especially in a letter where there is no possibility of immediate questioning feedback, is TOTALLY on the speaker/writer.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another unneeded prelude to a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The next utterance is-a newish, identical- reverse, letteral-sequence. (a new palindrome)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent, almost. The following utterance is the entire chunk in the next parse, whereas Michael really wants the first sumti of the next utterance. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e&amp;quot; might work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a tricky problem in anaphora choice. Usage - or the logicians - will have to determine whether quotes in a sumti are part of that sumti. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a&amp;quot; could be misinterpreted to include the non-symmetrical quote marks (lu...li&#039;u) in such a metalinguistic reference as this, and these are not part of the palindrome (la&#039;e vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e, maybe?). Perhaps he might have simply put the palindrome in its own utterance, as he promised, and then refer back to it with &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; in the following sentence (.i is a sentence separator and is NOT part of the utterance).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(Discovery!) vagina-near_thing&amp;quot; is-more-than the-mass-of pattern-others in the property of user-ability at-least- some-cardinality-ness (Humor! I don&#039;t necessarily opine!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The palindrome is neat, grammatical and semantically correct, and presumably is a useful comment for a male on the prowl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, the rest of his sentence isn&#039;t clear at all; even with the help of his English it appears that he combined the x3 and x4 places of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I interpret &amp;quot;lei mordrata&amp;quot; to be &amp;quot;things other than palindromes in form&amp;quot;, whereas he wants &amp;quot;other palindromes&amp;quot;. I would try &amp;quot;mitmo&#039;a drata&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;same-form other-things&amp;quot;). He also may not want a mass. You are more than a mass if you are more than any part of it. (Example: someone of your height is above you when standing on the next higher step of a staircase, even though most of her/his body is below your head.) Masses are funny things that are not semantically-familar to English-speakers; be careful when playing with them. Michael wanted either &amp;quot;ro le drata&amp;quot; (more than each-of the others), or &amp;quot;piro lei drata&amp;quot; (more than all-of the-mass-of others).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Per my above comments on comparison, x1 and x2 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; are not amounts, and therefore x3 should be. This suggests &amp;quot;leni plikakne kei&amp;quot; (the amount of user-ableness), or my preference, &amp;quot;leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei&amp;quot; (the amount of the- typical-something being-innately-capable-of-using). The latter makes it clearer that it is the x2 place of &amp;quot;pilno&amp;quot; (by explicitly specifying the x1 as something else) that specifies where the palindrome goes in the leni clause. (Without clarifying, a perverse reader might think this means &amp;quot;the palindrome is more able to use something than other palindromes&amp;quot;, which is mind-bogglingly implausible as an interpretation - but certainly within bounds for Michael).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;su&#039;omei&amp;quot; is not a sumti, and if it were, would need a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; on the end of the x3 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; (as in my version in the last paragraph) to not be part of the amount. From Michael&#039;s English, &amp;quot;li su&#039;o&amp;quot; as x4 would convey his meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I presume the attitudinals on the end belong on the whole utterance. Where they are, they apply only to the final sumti. In Lojban, you either need to put the attitudinal on the front of the sentence (in this case perhaps unfortunately flagging the humor before making the joke), or putting it on an explicit &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; at the end of the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With all these comments, my version of the last two sentences would thus read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi. .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu piro lei mitmo&#039;a drata leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei li su&#039;o vau zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para. The-first-sumti pertaining-to the-next- utterance is-a new, same-reverse letter-sequence. &amp;quot;(Discovery!) Vagina-near-thing&amp;quot; is-more-than all-of the same-form other-things in-amount-of the-typical being- innately-able-to use (it) by-amount the-number at-least- some (Humor!) (I not-necessarily-opine!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In brief, (I hope!) (Observative) Supporter-ly-future success, I am Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Definitely brief. I prefer &amp;quot;ba sarji snada&amp;quot;, which is even briefer. Why clutter up a tanru with a tense that can be misinterpreted, when the tense can go in front and be clear?.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because Michael did not separate the &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot; from the preceding with an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;, it attaches to the vau, in effect making this entire sentence his closing salutation. This is not apparent in his English, but the sentiments seem appropriate to a salutation. Ironically then, his salutation is NOT brief, at least compared to what most others write.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(.i .i&#039;acai I give Michael a hard time in these analyses, but at least he keeps trying, and indeed is improving. Perhaps Michael can forgive me for not doing this kind of analysis on his ever-accumulating poetry (must be over 50 poems so far), and his several long letters (this was only a 5&amp;quot;x8&amp;quot; handwritten sheet, with interlinear translation - Michael has written several-page letters typewritten, entirely in Lojban). Keep it up, Michael (only .e&#039;ocai try some less creative constructions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Next Issue ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will be much shorter than this one, at least if we want to see a textbook this century. But I&#039;ll try to have it out well before LogFest, making a shorter-than- three-months cycle between issues. I would like to have some of your attempts at the translation project paragraphs (or tanru or sentences) before then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We expect to have more information on our new software products and their prices, and who knows, perhaps a better estimate on the textbook date.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The expected highlight will be John Cowan&#039;s &amp;quot;selma&#039;o catalog&amp;quot;, a complete listing of each of the selma&#039;o (lexemes/gramemes) with an explanation of how each is used, and LOTS of examples. This will not only be an important addition to the tools available to you as Lojban learners, it will also be a part of the Lojban dictionary - the first part of that work to be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John has given us a draft already - it will probably be longer than the rest of the issue. The text is being extensively reviewed by several people, and even more examples will be added before it is done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== NEWS RELEASE ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;8 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Contact: Robert LeChevalier (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Trademark Office Rules &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; Generic ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The U. S. Patent and Trademark Office Appeals Board ruled Tuesday that the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) is generic. The Board also ordered cancellation of a trademark registration for &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; held by The Loglan Institute, Inc. of Florida. The summary judgement ruling is a major victory for The Logical Language Group, Inc., a non-profit research group in Fairfax, Virginia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Basis for the Dispute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan is an artificial language started in 1955 by Dr. James Cooke Brown. After a June 1960 Scientific American article, the language attracted widespread interest among linguists, computer scientists, and the international language movement. Volunteers aided Brown as work on the language continued into the 1980&#039;s. Slow progress and internal disputes caused a steady fall-off of support. This trend grew when Brown claimed copyright on the language for himself and his institute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major supporters of Loglan founded the Logical Language Group (LLG) in 1987 to reverse Loglan&#039;s declining support. Separate from Brown, LLG finished a public domain version of Loglan and promoted its use. The LLG version is called Lojban, based on the word for &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; in that version of the language. Facing a loss of control over the language, Brown registered a trademark in &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; in early 1988. The trademark and copyright claims restricted the rights of long-time workers and supporters of Loglan. Many felt the claims a betrayal of earlier promises. A legal battle followed, leading to the present decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of Loglan/Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban is a written and spoken human language. Its original purpose was research in language and culture. Loglan/Lojban is simple and logical, and has an unambiguous grammar. Thus, computer scientists view Loglan/ Lojban as a likely tool for artificial intelligence research and human-computer communications. Educators believe Loglan/Lojban can be an effective tool in foreign language education. As an artificial language, Loglan/Lojban also attracts followers of the international language movement. This movement seeks a culture-free alternative to languages such as English, and promotes international communication and world peace. The Logical Language Group supports these uses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People have used Lojban in conversation for over a year; the language was completed in August 1990. Over 100 people are actively studying the language. Hundreds more await a Lojban textbook, expected later in 1991. These people live all over the world, with concentrations in Washington DC, Boston, New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Volunteers lead classes and study groups in these and other cities. LLG sells teaching materials, computer programs, and other materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of the Trademark Victory ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The trademark dispute has constrained LLG in promoting the language. Millions of readers are familiar with the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; from magazine articles and science fiction novels. Legal threats from Brown intimidated many people from committing their full support. The ruling frees these people to support Loglan/Lojban without fear of reprisal. The decision also will encourage computer researchers to invest time and money in Loglan/Lojban. Finally, this decision removes a major obstacle to resolving the underlying disputes and reuniting the Loglan effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Changes to the Published cmavo Lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;as of 25 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Some changes are contingent on approval of John Cowan&#039;s proposed grammar baseline changes.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.uibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;smiley face&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;u	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;lack/need&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;ucu&#039;i  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;presence/satisfaction&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;unai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;o	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;u	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ce&#039;i	  (MOI)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	meaning	changes	to &#039;percent&#039; as	a number; works	with si&#039;e to form percentages of&lt;br /&gt;
		  the MOI variety&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
denpa bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do&#039;e	  (DOhE)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
du	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to GOhA&lt;br /&gt;
tedu&#039;o	  (BAI*)  - djuno place	structure change; assign with meaning &amp;quot;under epistemology ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;anai	  (FAhA*) - meaning corrected to &amp;quot;not towards point&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fau	  (BAI)	- fasnu	place structure	change gives minor meaning change&lt;br /&gt;
foi	  (FOI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;end composite letteral&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
gau	  (BAI)	- meaning change due to	place structure	change of gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;with	actor/agent ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
gaunai	  (BAI*)  - &amp;quot;with passive ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
ge&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Greek alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Cyrillic to	ru&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
je&#039;o	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BY;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;Hebrew alphabet shift&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
		  was jo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
jo&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Arabic alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Hebrew to je&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
joibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;&amp;amp;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ka&#039;o	  (PA)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;imaginary i&amp;quot;; from lu&#039;o;	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;o	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to ZOI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;the foreign named&amp;quot;; foreign spelling permitted within&lt;br /&gt;
		  quotes&lt;br /&gt;
lau	  (LAU)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;punctuation mark/special symbol&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
lo&#039;a	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Lojban/Roman alphabet shift&amp;quot;; replaces nei with meaning clarification; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;a	  (UI)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the members/components of ...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to&lt;br /&gt;
		  sa&#039;enai&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- free;	old meaning moved to sa&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;o	  (PA)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the mass	with components	...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved	to ka&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
me&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;	as a digit&lt;br /&gt;
meryru&#039;u bu	(BY*)	 - assign with meaning &amp;quot;$&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;o	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;adjacent/touching&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;u	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;directly away from point&amp;quot;; was	UNK&lt;br /&gt;
nei	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
re&#039;o	  (REhO)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ri&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BAI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;happens to ...; experienced by ...&amp;quot;; lifri modal&lt;br /&gt;
ru&#039;o	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Cyrillic	alphabet shift&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sa&#039;e	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to UI;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;precisely - loosely&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to	se&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;a	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;self-sufficiency&amp;quot;; was UNK; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency - dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;dependence&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency -	dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;e	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;IPA alphabet shift&amp;quot;; from sa&#039;e; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;o	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;I know by internal experience&amp;quot; (dream, divine revelation, etc.);	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sefau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
segau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
tegau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;i	  (BAI*)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;experiencing ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
si&#039;e	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to MOI, with meaning x1 is a n-portion	of x2, where n is a number&lt;br /&gt;
slaka bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;,&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
tau	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
te&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
tei	  (TEI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;composite lerfu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ti&#039;o	  (TIhO)  - selma&#039;o change to SEI&lt;br /&gt;
to&#039;o	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;a	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;o	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
.ybu	  (BY*)	- free;	meaning	assigned to &amp;quot;.y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.y&#039;ybu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
za&#039;u	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;greater than&amp;quot; as a	digit&lt;br /&gt;
zai	  (ZAI)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
zi, za,	zu	(ZA)	 - clarify that	these are scalar distances in time only, and correspond	to lexeme VA for space-&lt;br /&gt;
		  time.	 Use ZEHA and VEhA for time and	space-time intervals&lt;br /&gt;
net 9 assigned from UNK; 11 freed to UNK&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_13_moi&amp;diff=124088</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_13_moi&amp;diff=124088"/>
		<updated>2020-08-18T00:42:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 12 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 14 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990-1, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 13 - August 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Grammar Baselined&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmavo list Completed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;, and informing the community about logical languages in general. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 360. We now have over 680 people on our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: References to &#039;Loglan&#039; in this text, unless specifically noted, do not relate to the &#039;trademark&#039; claimed by The Loglan Institute, Inc., or to products identified by that &#039;trademark&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue marks major milestones, but reports our serious financial situation. The issue was delayed almost a month because we didn&#039;t have enough money to pay for it. This issue includes the new grammar baseline and the cmavo list as separate enclosures to an over-50 page issue. However, if our finances do not improve significantly, future issues will be much shorter. The choice is up to all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier starts a regular &#039;column&#039; written directly in Lojban, and without translation. As of this issue, all the materials needed to read Lojban text have been distributed - its time to set an example of using the language. We also include Lojban writings from Michael Helsem, who has written some 40 poems in Lojban, and from Athelstan and John Cowan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our regular news section discusses results from LogFest 90, an update on the textbook plans, and our financial woes. We also include two items from the editor of the Esperanto League for North America newsletter, Don Harlow, a response to JL11&#039;s Esperanto article and an article by Don on artificial languages, reprinted from his newsletter with permission. We have some writings from Andy Hilgartner, outlining his several decades of General Semantics research that have recently been affected by his contact with Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, LogFest attendees chose to have the community vote on the logo and another issue. Please respond by 20 October. If you are level 3, or have used LogFlash, we are also asking you to report on where you are at in learning the language by then. There will be another weekend get-together at Bob and Nora&#039;s place that weekend and everyone is invited. Let us know you are coming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest Results - Lojban Grammar Baselined, gismu List Baseline Changes  --3&lt;br /&gt;
  cmavo	Dictionary Progress				       --8&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Language Definition Status Summary			      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status (including Textbook Update)		      --13&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News - Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans		      --15&lt;br /&gt;
  News From the	Institute				      --16&lt;br /&gt;
JL11 Esperanto Discussion - A Response from Don	Harlow	      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Masters	of Tongue Fu, by Don Harlow			      --24&lt;br /&gt;
Two Papers by Andy Hilgartner				      --29&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses			      --32&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska					      --40&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Baselined Machine Grammar,	Abbreviated cmavo List,	Ballot/Questionnaire&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at: lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Join the Lojban news-group. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Send your mailing address to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Send traffic for the news-group to: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period: nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. For example, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly number of you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Jim Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LogFest Results ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Grammar Baselined - By consensus, the attendees at LogFest approved a preliminary baseline of the Lojban grammar, subject to minor corrections and typos that were expected to show up before publishing in this issue. (An awful lot of work was accomplished in the last two weeks before LogFest, and the copies printed for LogFest were rather hurriedly prepared.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A final baseline is expected in about 6-9 months, after the textbook is completed. However, given the extremely slow rate of change to the grammar up until now, few if any substantive changes are expected before the final baseline. All major subsections of the grammar have now been examined at least twice, and Bob was able to give lectures on the attitudinal, tense/modal, negation, MEX, and lerfu systems at LogFest with minimal preparation, demonstrating that these new developments are teachable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar has of course been verified through usage, with translations and original materials in a variety of styles and on a variety of subjects, as well as in conversation. The design has proven solid and robust.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar still requires formal usage testing (as opposed to disambiguity testing with the computer tool &#039;YACC&#039;), and no one has stepped forward to update the parser to the new grammar. In lieu of this, we will be updating the random sentence generator to the new grammar, and examining its outputs manually. We also will be using the older parser to examine Michael Helsem&#039;s poetry and any other Lojban text that is submitted during the preliminary baseline period, and will ensure that discrepancies are accounted for by known changes to the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A copy of the approved grammar is included with this issue. The grammar is a &#039;machine&#039; grammar, and designed primarily for computer use. However, people can understand and use it, too, with explanation. We&#039;ve provided such an explanation as front matter for the grammar copy, and would appreciate comments, especially from non-computer people, as to its understandability and usefulness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several people are working on condensed versions of the grammar that are more understandable to everyday people. These versions, written in a format called &#039;Extended BNF&#039; are only two to three pages long. The primary weakness of E-BNF grammars is that they cannot be verified by YACC; we therefore want to ensure that the versions are thoroughly checked before publishing them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone interested in working on the E-BNF effort should contact us. John Cowan and Carl Burke are leading the effort, and will respond to you. Include a Compuserve or Usenet/Internet/ Bitnet address if you have one, and want to communicate via net.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu List Baseline Changes - The list of proposed new gismu swelled just before LogFest from the list presented in the last JL issue, making for a lively, if long, session at LogFest devoted to going over the proposals. About 3/4 of the changes were adopted, with a couple of issues left up in the air for further comment from the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Almost all of the changes are additions to the list of gismu, the type of change having least impact on someone learning the language. There was one word change accepted, the change from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; discussed in the last issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are three changes to keywords for existing gismu, specifically the gismu for some of our basic Lojban language concepts (&amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;); these word changes are not changes to the meaning of the gismu, but are instead corrections to eliminate misconceptions. The existing keywords are the words that Jim Brown used in his writings for the concepts, and have historically been criticized as being &#039;the wrong word&#039;. We&#039;ve stuck with them for tradition, but reactions from the community when the proposals were circulated on the computer network indicated that the keywords were causing confusion and that it was time for a change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is, of course, that these concepts are not commonly used in English, and no English word accurately reflects their meaning. LogFest came up with the phrase &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot; to serve for gismu, but was unable to agree on new phrases for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;. Some of the proposals are described below. For purposes of discussion at LogFest, we limited keyword proposals to 15 characters or less, the existing LogFlash limit. Since we are increasing that limit to 20 characters to support the cmavo keywords, some of you may be able to devise clearer phrases than we did at LogFest; for example, some of Bob&#039;s preferences for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;modification pair&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;modified concept&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;modified relation&amp;quot;, are now permitted. We need your suggestions within the next month or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the new words that have been approved, and for the open issues that have obvious new word implications, we have already started the word-making process. For the first time, we are able to use a native speaker for the primary research in a non-English source language. Vijay Vaidyanathan of Albany NY, a native Tamil speaker who is fluent in Hindi (and whose wife is a native Hindi speaker) is providing the original Hindi research. Mimi Herrmann, a DC-area language aficionado, is researching the Arabic words. We turned to Russian translator Gary Burgess for aid in Russian, and Bob did the other three languages using his shelf of dictionaries. When all of the contributors get finished, hopefully in a few weeks, Bob&#039;s new 386 computer should make short work of building the possible words, and we&#039;ll be able to tell you the results next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban gismu are made by searching for sound patterns that most match the words from the source languages. A score, called a recognition score, is calculated based on weighted averages using the speaker population for each source language. The weighting system for language populations takes the number of native speakers and adds half of the number of second language speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob researched how the last several years affected the language population weights. We had expected a significant growth in speakers of other languages, but was surprised to find that English has receded, and rather rapidly. While it is still the language of choice in international business and in science, there are now considered to be fewer speakers of the language worldwide than there were just a few years ago. If we use the new data in making the gismu, English drops to 3rd place well behind Hindi, and is being threatened by Spanish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most striking cause of this change is in India. When India first became independent in 1948, English was often the language of choice as a lingua franca for communication between speakers of the several hundred different languages spoken in India (there were some 15 languages cited as &#039;official&#039; at the time of independence). Now, however, only English and Hindi are considered &#039;official&#039;, and there is a decided bent towards Hindi. There are some 230 million native Hindi speakers (and perhaps another 60 million Urdu speakers - Urdu is considered by linguists to be the same language as Hindi, but is written in Arabic script). This is about the same number of native speakers as English has world-wide. In second language speakers, the real difference shows up. Hindi is the lingua franca of around 400 million speakers in India, and this number is rapidly increasing under the Indian literacy program. English is now spoken by only 21 million Indians, only 2% of the population.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English is also receding in Africa, although not as dramatically.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Russian numbers have also changed, as greater recognition has been placed on the non-Russian nationalities in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The numbers are confirmed in another source, a survey description of the world&#039;s languages edited by B. Comrie, an expert on language universals. The section on English estimates the number of speakers as 350 million, whereas quotes as high as a billion were easy to find when we started surveying languages in 1987 before the initial gismu-making effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are the numbers of speakers in millions derived from the 1990 Britannica Book of the Year. The final column gives the weights normalized to 100. We&#039;ve given numbers for the next two languages behind Arabic, which are rapidly gaining. However, we are unlikely to replace Arabic with Bengali until the numbers are solidly in its favor, since Bengali is Indo-European and confined almost entirely to two countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Language  Native 2nd  Net	1990  1987                     &lt;br /&gt;
    		 Score	 Wt.   Wt.                     &lt;br /&gt;
Chinese    754M  339M 923M	35.5  33.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
Hindi      288M  478M 528M	20.5  16.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
English    299M  228M 413M	16    18                       &lt;br /&gt;
Spanish    300M   38M 319M	12    12.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
Russian    170M  118M 229M	 9    12                       &lt;br /&gt;
Arabic     181M   22M 192M	 7    7.5                      &lt;br /&gt;
Bengali    176M   26M 189M	 -                             &lt;br /&gt;
Portuguese 156M   12M 161M	 -                             &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will experiment with both sets of weights in making the 20 new gismu to be constructed; there is no policy on whether to update weights periodically, since we don&#039;t anticipate making many more gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, here is the summary of decisions made by the LogFest attendees:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following proposals were approved with little controversy:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Change &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; for rafsi considerations;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;, change keyword for &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;full day&amp;quot;?, &amp;quot;24hr day&amp;quot;?);&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;, as distinct from &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, to parallel with &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;citrus&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cabbage&amp;quot;, to include broccoli, cauliflower, and perhaps lettuce;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;hemp&amp;quot;, to include natural rope, burlap, marijuana, and hashish;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;protein&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;buckwheat&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cassava&amp;quot;, to include taro and yam, and other starchy roots (not tubers);&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;sorghum&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;magenta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cyan&amp;quot; as the missing two subtractive primary colors;&lt;br /&gt;
# Change the keyword of &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;North America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot;, referring to the U.S.;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;South America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;xispo&amp;quot;, referring to Latin America;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;Antarctica&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following proposals were added with considerable debate and discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;glimmering&amp;quot; to cover the concepts of morning and evening twilight, as well as the phenomena of &amp;quot;astronomical terminator&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;penumbra&amp;quot;; the poetic usefulness and the astronomical extension of the concept led to passage; &lt;br /&gt;
## &amp;quot;dawn&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;morning twilight&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evening twilight&amp;quot; were voted down.&lt;br /&gt;
# Define &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evening&amp;quot; symmetrically; &lt;br /&gt;
## The specific symmetry required much debate; consensus was finally built around a culture-dependent definition, wherein morning is the time between sleep and work, and evening is the time between work and sleep, according to the cultural norm. In a tanru this could be modified to a personal norm.&lt;br /&gt;
# In a discussion of &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; as an opposite of &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot;, initial sentiment for adding it was weak; &lt;br /&gt;
## It was noticed that the existing place structure of increase was transitive; it was proposed that by changing the place structure to the intransitive &amp;quot;x1 increases in property x2 by amount x3&amp;quot;, an opposite gismu for &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; would be better justified. Without the change, the semantic difference from &amp;quot;adjust&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;add&amp;quot; was felt to be too small. &lt;br /&gt;
## The vote to add &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; in parallel to the new meaning of &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; was then successful. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following changes were voted down:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;tears&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot;, the opposite of &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;diffuse&amp;quot;, the opposite of &amp;quot;concentrated&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot;, (after discussion, it was decided that &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot; is the opposite of &amp;quot;excess&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot; as middle ground. The opposite of &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot; then, encompasses both excess or deficient;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;alfalfa&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add a common term for the Western Hemisphere continents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are still open issues:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. The definition of &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot; was not discussed; we forgot. The issue was based on our learning that different cultures include/exclude the hand and the shoulder from the concept of &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot;. Tentatively, we will define an &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot; as a non-supporting limb, without specifically excluding or including the extremity.&lt;br /&gt;
2. It was decided to change the keywords for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;. Unfortunately, there has been no consensus on what to change them to. The clear sense is to avoid linguistic jargon and words that have multiple meanings in English such as &amp;quot;compound&amp;quot;. There is some sentiment for keywords that show a parallelism in definitions of the two concepts, though alternatively the parallelism could be made clear in the extended definition. The proposed choices, in roughly chronological order are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tanru		     lujvo                               &lt;br /&gt;
open compoundclosed compound                               &lt;br /&gt;
relation phraseaffix compound                              &lt;br /&gt;
relation phraserelation compound                           &lt;br /&gt;
word cluster    cluster word                               &lt;br /&gt;
word cluster   affix cluster                               &lt;br /&gt;
word grouping affix grouping                               &lt;br /&gt;
grouped words  affix word(s)                               &lt;br /&gt;
modified phrasemodified word                               &lt;br /&gt;
phrase relationaffix relation                              &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As noted earlier, some slightly longer keywords can be considered, since we have to create a version of LogFlash supporting the 20-character keywords for cmavo data. Bob is adding the following based on this new option:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
modification pairmodification word&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The familial relationships never quite seem to satisfy. It was agreed to add &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; to the definitions of &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot;. Later it was suggested that we retain some unsatisfactory holes and combinations, which are of uncertain importance. The fact that American culture is shifting away from traditional family structures makes it unlikely that we (who are almost all Americans) can decide on a culturally neutral solution. The choices are then to be maximally inclusive of the possible relationships, or to pare the list in ways that ignore American sensibilities. The general preference seems to be for the former. Thus, we can make the following matrix:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gender-neutral	Male	 Female	  Gender-neutral	   &lt;br /&gt;
but genetic			 not-necessarily-          &lt;br /&gt;
				     genetic		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
panzi		bersa	  tixnu	      se rirni		   &lt;br /&gt;
offspring	son	  daughter    reared		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
				      verba		   &lt;br /&gt;
				      child		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
				      cifnu		   &lt;br /&gt;
				      infant		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
		bruna	   mensi      tunba		   &lt;br /&gt;
		brother	   sister     sibling		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
se panzi	patfu	   mamta      rirni		   &lt;br /&gt;
   ?		father	   mother     rearer		   &lt;br /&gt;
		sire	   dam				   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
se jbena						   &lt;br /&gt;
mother/father						   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that as currently defined, &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot; are defined biologically, whereas their counterparts (except &amp;quot;se jbena&amp;quot;) need not be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An obvious suggestion is to make &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot; non-biological. However, it can be argued that with animal breeding and genetics, and in some less transitional cultures, the biological parents have a uniquely important role enough to be considered &#039;primitive&#039;. If so, the tanru &amp;quot;mamta se panzi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;patfu se panzi&amp;quot; may be too long to be satisfactory. (We asked Vijay, our Hindi/Tamil expert, though, and at least for human parents, the biological aspect is secondary to the social relationship - non-biological parents are called by the same &#039;mother&#039; and &#039;father&#039; terms as biological parents. If this is the case, the longer tanru for specifying biological parents may be acceptable.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other options: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a. Change &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; to be its inverse, making &amp;quot;se panzi&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;offspring&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;b. Add a different gismu to be the inverse of &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot;, with a keyword something like &amp;quot;engender&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;c. Add two gismu to specifically represent the genetic relationships &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; as distinct from the social terms &amp;quot;mother&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;father&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other options are possible. Note also that &amp;quot;rirni&amp;quot; is not quite the same as &amp;quot;mother/father&amp;quot;, so we may need another genderless general term here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we are making up gismu for &amp;quot;engender&amp;quot; as one of the 20 words. The actual word that results may affect the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to the above, there is also the question of the extended family, which we have long ignored. We can be very specific about &amp;quot;mother-mother&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;father-sister&amp;quot;, and other extended family relationships, but we cannot be general. Most cultures either use very general terms or very specific ones (Hindi and Chinese distinguish between a father&#039;s older brother and younger brother as different word-concepts); in American culture, of course, divorce and remarriage is causing extended family relationships to become so complex that specific terms will not suffice. For discussion purposes then, Bob is proposing (and making):&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a. &amp;quot;elder/ancestor&amp;quot; for family members of generations preceding the parents (including non-direct line, the relationship is more social/ethnic than biological). Gender would be added via tanru, as would explicit biological lineage (or a place could be used for specifying lineage, with specific names used in alternation with properties of the lineage of relation). The conversion would give &amp;quot;descendant&amp;quot; as well as &amp;quot;grandkids&amp;quot; in the broadest sense. This was independently proposed by John Cowan as &amp;quot;x1 is an ancestor of x2 of degree x3&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;b. &amp;quot;aunt/uncle/godparent&amp;quot; for non-lineal (socio-ethnic) family members of the parental generation. The conversion would give &amp;quot;niece/ nephew&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;c. &amp;quot;cousin&amp;quot; for non-immediate (socio-ethnic) family members of the same generation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The generalized family relationship is still expressed by &amp;quot;lanzu&amp;quot;, which can be modified via tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Related Discussion - Days of the week were dis-cussed prior to the gismu baseline discussion, and it was decided to add color-and continent-based names as alternatives to the number based names that have been standard (it was at this point that we realized that we were missing 3 of the 7 continents). In addition, the number based names will be set to run from 0 to 7, with Sunday serving as both 0 and 7, depending on speaker preference and cultural orientation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan expressed great skepticism that any alternate system would catch on. They seem too much like crackpot &#039;calendar reform&#039; efforts, and also aren&#039;t well supported in numerical date representations. He also noted that not all cultures have a 7-day week. The generic concept of a week is the time between successive market days, which ranges from 4 to 9 days in agrarian non-Western cultures. He thus suggested that &amp;quot;jeftu&amp;quot; add a place to indicate the culture (it was later realized that a &#039;standard&#039; is already in the place structure). He is using days of the week based on the International names of the classically known heavenly bodies, thus allowing him to parallel Romance languages that did likewise. (English and the Germanic languages loan-translated the Roman gods used in planet names to the corresponding gods&#039; names from German mythology.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan notes that in Israel, the days are number-named from 1st-day to 6th-day, followed by the Sabbath; this is similar to our adopted system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other LogFest Results - LogFest only had about 18 attendees, but they were a truly exceptional crowd that demonstrated by their commitment to the language that Loglan/Lojban is going to continue to grow and prosper. More than half were from out of town; three graduates of the Blacksburg class came. Almost all were level 3 active language students; thus we never really got to exercise our plans to support activities for newcomers at the same time as a main track.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, a lot of key people we thought were going to come didn&#039;t. For example, Dr. Yorke, scheduled to lead a discussion of his proposal (printed in JL12), didn&#039;t make it, but won an award for the best excuse ever for not coming to LogFest. He called Friday evening to tell us that his house was surrounded by fire trucks. (The lengths people will go to avoid coming! Luckily, the fire was not too serious.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We discussed Dr. Yorke&#039;s proposal anyway. There was little support - the people working on Lojban are interested in a full language, not a hybrid form. la lojbangirz. thus will not change its goals and plans to match his ideas, although we are willing to support and encourage anyone who wants to develop the idea further and give it a proper test. Most participants, though, said that a hybrid LogEnglish might as well use straight English words for the predicates. The loss of audiovisual isomorphism is not significant until someone comes up with a speech recognizer. It was also suggested, and we will consider, using such a hybrid form in teaching materials for beginners, so that they do not need to master the vocabulary to get a start on the unique grammar features of Lojban. This will not be used for the initial textbook, however. If someone wants to try this technique in teaching a class, let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday was primarily devoted to technical presentations on the major areas of the grammar that had been reviewed for the baseline. Athelstan gave his mini-lesson during one gap in this, and we had a short period of Lojban conversation during another gap (Bob was able to make do without his word lists. But especially gratifying was that several others participated, including some who had not been part of a class.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also discussed John Hodges&#039; proposals on time and typography. Bob&#039;s counter-proposals on these issues were adopted, although with no change to the period before the &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; at the beginning of the sentence (see JL12 for both the original proposals and the counters). All typography symbols are optional, and do not affect grammar or pronunciation - symbols of punctuation are used IN ADDITION to the Lojban punctuation words. We won&#039;t promise to use them in most JL writings. We type Lojban text slowly enough now, without trying to master some new conventions. However, we will accept and print Lojban text that uses the optional conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Annual Member&#039;s Meeting - On Sunday was the annual meeting of Members of la lojbangirz., which ran over as usual, ending rather hurriedly at 3pm after 5 hours of most lively discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While everyone in the community is considered a member of la lojbangirz., we must maintain a formal membership for election of Board members, changes to Bylaws, and as it turns out, whatever else the membership decides to act on. We added 4 new formal members, making a total of 12.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One major item of business was adoption of the grammar baseline, and this was pro forma, almost a letdown after the intensity of the previous day&#039;s work. We also moved LogFest back a week, effective in 1991. Next year it will be on the weekend of June 23, 1991. Make your plans early.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If June is a bad time of year for you, there may be another chance. A second get-together will be held this fall at Bob and Nora&#039;s house (so save your maps to LogFest), tentatively the weekend of October 20-21. Because the next JL issue will come out too close to then to allow meaningful publicity, this is your only notice. This year&#039;s &#039;Log-Fair&#039; will be an experiment that will be repeated if there is interest. This year&#039;s meeting may also serve as a textbook review party, if Bob has gotten sufficient done to justify this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Electronic mail distribution of our materials was also discussed in the meeting, and a committee was formed to devise a policy on what things will be released in this form. We will use the Planned Languages File Server (discussed in JL12), as well as similar forums such as the Compuserve Foreign Languages Forum, as official repositories. All electronic media distributions will have some type of header giving its status as a draft or baseline, &#039;copyleft&#039; (similar to Free Software Foundation policies) or public domain status or full copyright if appropriate. In general, our books and major publications that we need to get income from to survive will be protected - unless events transpire to eliminate need for that income. All material that defines the language will be public domain, along with some other things like the brochure that we want widely distributed. Most of our stuff will be &#039;copyleft&#039;, allowing distribution without charge as long as various notices attached are retained.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One fear of public domain status before the language has a solid community was that there is no way that electronic media readers can be certain that they have gotten the &#039;real thing&#039;; someone could modify the official documents, attach any labels we put on to certify &#039;officialness&#039;, and redistribute them. The &#039;correct&#039; solution lies in trademark law, but we are reluctant to go in that direction given our disputes with the Institute. Since we are committed to a public domain language, we will probably just say that if you want to be absolutely certain you have the latest and greatest version of something, you will have to order it from la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The electronic media committee was also charged with developing an introductory lesson for distribution on electronic (and paper) media. This will be tied in with our policy on who gets materials without paying for them (see Finances below). The lesson may have some similarity to the Esperanto postal mail course. Athelstan has prepared a draft mini-lesson for this purpose, which is being tried by a few people. The mini-lesson will also partially replace the current, rather unsatisfactory, Overview that we send to new people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second committee was charged with developing a plan to restore our fiscal integrity. The details will be discussed in the next section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most surprising about these two committees is that the membership insisted that Bob not be actively involved. &amp;quot;These are NOT Bob jobs!&amp;quot; said Karen Stein. The membership seemed concerned that Bob has been spread too thin, and these committees could handle things without his active involvement. So all of the preceding is subject to change by the committees; your Editor doesn&#039;t know much more than you beyond what has been said. The formal membership will hopefully have a report from each committee in August, in order to allow decisions before Athelstan leaves for Europe (he is on both committees).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob comments: It is gratifying that the members feel enough commitment to volunteer significantly firmly to relieve me of what has become too much responsibility. This is your language, not mine. Finally, a group of people is acting like they believe me, and acting like it is THEIR language, and taking the responsibility needed to make it succeed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== cmavo Dictionary Progress ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Cowan has assumed responsibility for producing a draft version of the cmavo portion of the dictionary, taking over from earlier work done by Jeff Taylor. His first product for us is the abbreviated definition cmavo list included in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John has proven extremely productive in the last few weeks, helping with the grammar baseline and the E-BNF effort, compiling the cmavo index included with this issue, and volunteering for major work responsibilities on the dictionary, while contributing valuable suggestions on a variety of other topics. He also has started writing a &#039;daily&#039; Lojban journal, believed to be a first in that category (although Jim Carter reported doing likewise with an earlier version of the language in the early 1980&#039;s). John first learned about Lojban only a couple of months ago, thus showing how quickly a motivated person can master enough of the language to take a leading role.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The cmavo index included with this issue is the first complete list with definitions since the draft list of October 1988. The definitions are short, and not very explanatory in some cases; John is working on expanding them. You can use the partial cmavo list from JL10 to make additional notes on many of the cmavo; the exercise will also help you to learn those cmavo that were on that list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In many cases, you will need to look up the lexeme for each cmavo in the machine grammar in order to know how it is used; some 100 cmavo are each &#039;in a class by itself&#039; - a lexeme with only 1 member whose meaning is solely grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the remaining cmavo are found in a very few lexemes. Members of lexeme UI are the attitudinals, discursives, and observationals used to comment metalinguistically on what you are saying. Lexeme BAI contains the modals; these can be used somewhat like adverbs to modify the selbri, or can be used somewhat like prepositions to tag sumti that are not part of the place structure, thus tying them into the bridi relationship being expressed in the sentence. Lexeme KOhA has the &#039;pro-sumti&#039;, which act somewhat like English pronouns. Lexeme COI has vocatives, which are like attitudinals but are addressed specifically to a listener. Lexeme BY is the lerfu - the letters and symbols of the alphabet, and various auxiliary shifts and markers. Lexeme PA are the numbers and related symbols used to read off numerical strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The English &#039;keywords&#039; intended for use in LogFlash 3 (which will teach the cmavo), all 20 characters or less, are included in the abbreviated cmavo list. Bob and Nora reviewed John&#039;s list, adding these keywords (needed for LogFlash 3 - Bob has learned most of the cmavo now in testing that program. See the products section below). We want comments from the community on the keyword choices before releasing LogFlash 3. Do the keywords make sense to you (assuming that the cmavo definitions do)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The shortened definitions in this list will be expanded into full text definitions for the dictionary, and John intends to devise examples for each grammatical usage of each cmavo. This effort is only a goal, and may not be practical for all words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest attendees recognized that our finances have reached the point of crisis. The 18 attendees, in exceptional gestures of support, donated over $1000 to la lojbangirz., but this was merely enough to keep our bank balance positive, allowing this issue to be printed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even with these donations, our income for this year is running well behind the income for last year, in spite of the fact that our audience/customer base is some 50% larger. We&#039;ve kept expenses down; they are also running behind last year, but this is primarily due to firm controls on non-vital expenditures. Our new 501(c)(3) status makes U.S. donations tax deductible, but donations are also well below last year even with the recent influx from LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is that, while most people who order stuff pay for it, not all of you do. Our prices have been set at a non-profit level, so each non-paid sale is a pure loss that has to be made up from donations. Sales of our software, the only products with a price that makes us some profit, are down, and probably will continue to be until the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less than 100 people had positive balances at a recent audit. Only a couple of dozen have the balance amounts corresponding to each level that we request on our registration forms and in the mailing label summary in each JL issue. Most magazine publishers require you to pay for subscriptions in advance - we cannot afford to have people paying for issues after their balance goes negative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several of our largest contributors, who are footing the bill, are starting to get angry about all this, and have demanded changes in policy. They want their money going to promote growth in the language, and not to finance &#039;deadbeats&#039;. (Harsh words, but that is a direct quote from one major contributor.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most extreme position is that everyone should be able to afford to contribute something towards their balances - the price of an order of french fries every couple of weeks would fully pay for a level 1 subscription. Anyone not willing to contribute this amount simply isn&#039;t interested in supporting us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The counter to this position recognizes that some people don&#039;t have the money for french fries, or for Lojban. We don&#039;t want to exclude prisoners, students, and people from other countries where incomes are a fraction of those in the U.S. Lojban is not supposed to be a language for the &#039;monied&#039; class, but for everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An intermediate position, which may win out in the long run, is that we are going to have to insist on payment from most people, and make exceptions on a case-by-case basis, only by special request, and often with strings attached such as required volunteer work or the submission of writings to show that the beneficiaries are actually using what we&#039;re giving them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Regardless of the final decision, something must be done, and now. Less than 20% of our people have positive balances, and we must get the rest of you to pay some amount towards our expenses on your behalf or we&#039;ll have to cut you back, or cut you off.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some decisions have been made. If your balance is more than $50 negative as of 20 October, you will be cut to level 0. Only a special pleading will change this. Contributing some money, even a little, will probably put off a cutback, if we are convinced that you are likely to continue using the material and contributing some money. If you can pay off your balance, or make a commitment to do so by a specific time, all the better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If your balance is more than $20 negative as of 20 October, you being put on notice that we may have to drop you to level 0 as well. You should write to us, and try to send some money, even if it is only $5 or $10. Ideally, you will bring your balance positive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If your balance is negative at all, and we haven&#039;t heard from you in over a year, we need to hear from you, or you also may be dropped in level. Even a short note to let us know you are still interested and reading the material we send you will help; if you send some money to bring your balance positive, all the better. The Ballot/Questionnaire enclosed with this issue is an opportunity to respond without writing a letter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, we would strongly prefer that you bring your balance up to the desired support level listed on the front of each issue for your level ($40 for level 3, $25 for level 2, $20 for level 1, and $5 for level 0); that way we don&#039;t have to keep asking for money each issue. We&#039;ll accept whatever you can contribute. But the bottom line is that those who want the language to succeed, and can afford it, should have balances over $20, or even $50, for our use as operating funds, and are contributing a little extra on the side to help us with those who do not pay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you feel that your balance charges have been unfair, that we&#039;ve charged you for something you haven&#039;t gotten, let us know, and we will make the situation right. If you question whether our material to you isn&#039;t worth what we are charging you, let us know what you think it is worth, and we may be willing to negotiate - but be aware that we are spending what we charge you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your negative voluntary balance is not a &#039;bill&#039;. We have no legal way to collect it if you don&#039;t want to pay it. But if we can&#039;t get much higher percentages of people paying for the stuff we send them, we will be in serious trouble. The question is whether you want us to succeed. If so, you&#039;ll contribute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if most people bring their balances positive, this won&#039;t be enough; our expenditures will be rising as we get ready to publish the textbook, and as our numbers continue to grow. We actually need to convince many more of you to keep the specified positive balances to support your subscription level. Those positive balances are our operating funds that allow us to keep day-to-day business going; we currently spend about $1000 a month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve also learned more about the realities of the book publishing business, and why book prices have gone up so much in recent years; bookstores and distributors demand and get 40-55% off list price, and even then don&#039;t pay for 3 months or more and expect to return the covers of any books they don&#039;t sell (they discard the books - postage and labor is too high to send the whole book back) for credit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Based on this, we need enough income from sales within the existing community to pay the entire pre-publication print and marketing bill, or we&#039;ll be bankrupt. Either that or get a lot of donations, which seems unlikely.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of our financial situation and this future reality, all existing discounts are terminated as of 1 August 1990 pending any decisions from the finance committee and the membership. Overseas people (excluding US/Canada/Mexico) will be charged a flat 20% surcharge to handle the increased postage. The primary impact of this will be that JL prices inside the US will no longer be discounted for bulk mail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A 20% discount will be given on any order over $20 which is prepaid - i.e. you have enough in your balance, or contribute enough to cover the price. (This discount will cancel the surcharge for people outside North America.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At textbook time, there will probably be a further carrot for those with positive balances. Everyone in the community will get an offer to buy the textbook in advance of the official publication date at some discount from list price. We expect that for prepaid orders from people with positive balances, we will be discounting the textbook price as much as $10. This of course means that the price will be that much higher for everyone else. Those with negative balances will likely receive little or no discount.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to all of the above, the finance committee will probably be recommending that we send a fund-raising letter to each of you, independent of JL, pointing out how much we&#039;ve accomplished on a mere shoestring and asking you to contribute so that we can continue to produce your language. We still need donations above and beyond paid sales in order to finance our continued growth (and to pay off existing debts).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With our finances as they are, we are at a disadvantage in seeking outside grants; donors look for financial stability and community support, and we just aren&#039;t getting enough. It also costs money to prepare grant proposals, and we don&#039;t have it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The finance committee will be considering how to value volunteer efforts on our behalf, and we may offer volunteer work as a way to ameliorate a negative balance. The offerings will be slim; there isn&#039;t much volunteer work that we can place value on, and we can&#039;t afford to &#039;pay&#039; much.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volunteer activities include translating materials into foreign languages, giving talks and recruiting new people, and writing significant amounts of Lojban text. In the short term, we&#039;re looking for volunteers in the DC area to come over to Bob&#039;s house and type several hundred addresses into the computer - these are addresses of book dealers and reviewers that we will have to contact before the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your response to all these measures will determine where we go from here. The 350 JL subscribers are Lojban&#039;s best supporters but also the biggest drain on our resources. If we can go from 100 people with positive balances (the current number) to 250, we will probably survive. If we can get to 300 or more with balances over $10, the Lojban project may again be fiscally healthy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We welcome all suggestions for other ways to raise money, to gain donations, and get more balance contributions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Language Definition Status Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With all that hand-wringing about finances, it is worth reviewing what your contributions have bought so far in terms of products and services, and most important, in terms of the language itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design of the language is basically complete; we await various write-ups before final baseline of the design, because we need to have a clear written statement of what the design is in order to protect that design against change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is stable. Preliminary baseline changes have been minimal, and have almost entirely been additions to the language that have no impact on people who have already started learning. Let us look at each design area to see where it stands: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Phonology - Lojban pronunciation has not changed since being baselined over 2 years ago. Few questions have been raised about the design. There is no reason to expect changes for the indefinite future, although we will be trying to make the Synopsis discussion more readable to the average person before incorporating it into the dictionary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Morphology - The Lojban morphology has also been baselined for over 2 years without significant questions being raised. There is a remaining open issue on the exact rules for borrowing words from other languages. The required form - the essence of the design - is firm, but whether there needs to be additional constraints on borrowing forms remains a matter to be decided by the people who use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There has been a proposal, supported most notably by Michael Helsem, that would allow either &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; as the &#039;hyphen&#039; after a CVV rafsi, unless the following consonant is the same letter. This is a simple change that would only increase options (currently, you use only &#039;r&#039;, unless the following letter is an &#039;r&#039;, in which case you use &#039;n&#039;), but we are reluctant to make the change. One reason is that it seems too unimportant to justify a baseline change. Another is that it further increases the number of possible forms for a lujvo, making it harder to produce the dictionary (and taking up more space). Finally, the change would constrain le&#039;avla (borrowing) space, something we should avoid unless we have a good reason.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orthography - The Lojban alphabet and required writing conventions are unchanged since the baseline over 2 years ago. In JL12, Bob proposed some additional optional conventions, which were adopted at LogFest. We&#039;ve been given a proposal to use different letters to represent the &#039;i&#039; and &#039;u&#039; glides in diphthongs, since these technically are different sounds than those in the non-diphthong vowels; we&#039;ll probably discuss this proposal prior to next issue, but expect no changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu - The gismu list was baselined just about two years ago. Specifically baselined were the gismu themselves and the corresponding English keywords. (The rafsi and place structures are discussed below.) Exactly one gismu was changed at the recent LogFest; no other changes have been even proposed. There have been 4 changes to keywords, including the three for &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot; mentioned above as just approved. All 4 changes were instigated by Lojban learners who expressed confusion about the meaning of the word based on the keyword, and suggested a clearer word; none of the gismu meanings, as expressed by the keyword, have changed. Further changes are not expected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The recent LogFest provided the first additions to the gismu list since the baseline. There are looser controls against adding words, since these cause no relearning; we&#039;ve been surprised to go two full years (until the recently approved changes) with no additions at all. The couple of open issues mentioned above may lead to further additions, and there is an ongoing re-review of the gismu in thesaurus fashion that may reveal one or two possible words, but we don&#039;t expect many.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two noted Lojbanists, Athelstan and Michael Helsem, have voiced the opinion that we should be much more willing to add new gismu to the existing set. Tommy Whitlock, on the other hand, is adamantly opposed to adding new gismu, since he thinks there are too many already. This balance of opinions among the most senior Lojbanists, and the increasing number of active students, means that additions will occur slowly if at all, and with extensive review from several members of the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
rafsi - The rafsi list has proven as stable as the gismu list, even though it was not baselined. The reluctance to change anything that has been released via LogFlash lists has been enough to defer change proposals indefinitely. There was one change early on, when we changed the rafsi of &amp;quot;narge&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;-nag-&amp;quot;, freeing &amp;quot;-nar-&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The recently adopted negation proposal split the negation cmavo &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; into three words, two of which needed rafsi. &amp;quot;- nar-&amp;quot; was assigned as the rafsi for &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;, while &amp;quot;-nal-&amp;quot; was assigned to &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;. All of the other grammar changes led to the addition of perhaps a half dozen rafsi assigned to cmavo, and a couple of the rafsi being freed. (See the summary with the JL12 attitudinal proposal for a list.)&lt;br /&gt;
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There are two change proposals to be considered prior to the next LogFlash release, to make more &#039;hyphen-friendly&#039; rafsi for the abstractors &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot; which are being used more commonly in lujvo that require hyphen &#039;y&#039; than originally estimated. Again, no other changes are planned, although we will be looking at the rafsi more thoroughly at the time the dictionary is written, when the rafsi list will be formally baselined.&lt;br /&gt;
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We don&#039;t want to freeze the rafsi list until we&#039;ve analyzed a lot of lujvo made by as many different Lojbanists as possible, thus minimizing the likelihood that usage statistics (applied to &#039;fine-tuning&#039; the selections) are skewed towards words favored by one or two Lojbanists who do not know all the gismu equally well.&lt;br /&gt;
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Place structures - Place structures will also not be baselined until the dictionary is written. A very slow review and rewrite of all of the place structures is in progress, and will be completed for the next release of LogFlash and the textbook. The new versions of place structures being examined will be expressed in greater detail than those included with the current gismu list, and should be easier to understand. (The maximum definition size will be 96 characters instead of the current 40.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A change to the place structure is inherently a meaning change, and we try to avoid them. Almost all changes have been additions and deletions to the last trailing places that few have learned or used. More commonly, the changes are clarifications to better let a reader know what type of sumti value is expected in a sumti place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of all parts of the language design, the place structures are the least stable and finalized, but Bob can testify from his experience that only a few changes have ever affected anything he&#039;s written. (Most significant of these is the place structure of &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, which was modified to put the selbri in the 2nd place; the x2 place of the place structure for &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, as printed in the gismu list, makes no sense - a bridi is a sentence/relationship and has no &#039;meaning&#039; independent of context. The change, of course, rendered &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot; as the appropriate word for the concept, since the word relates by definition to the x2 place of &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;. (&amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot;, for those who were not aware or have forgotten, is an artifact-word from before the gismu baseline, and should be replaced by &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot; where ever you see it.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Grammar - The Lojban grammar is defined by a computer-verified definition called the machine grammar. As reported above, this grammar has now been baselined. Even before the baseline, there had been only 3 or 4 changes in the last year as we wrote the draft textbook lessons and re-examined entire areas of the grammar. These changes were in the more esoteric portions of the grammar that were seldom being used, and text written in Lojban since around JL8 (including all of the draft lessons) is nearly as grammatical now as it was when written.&lt;br /&gt;
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The new baseline is a &#039;soft&#039; baseline, that will allow us to make minor corrections that show up in textbook writing. Few such changes are expected, but we may find that we can allow some constructs that are currently forbidden, as well as rules that we thought were in the grammar that were omitted typographically. These changes will not &#039;enter the language&#039; officially until the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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The strength of the grammar is that each of the special areas like negation, tense, MEX, and attitudinal indicators, has received thorough &#039;end-of-development&#039; analyses that make it unlikely that the language will prove inconsistent or incomplete in these areas. As recently as last issue, we were uncertain that our MEX design would stand up to analysis; the final design proved quite versatile, and we believe that we have met the goal of being able to readily express any mathematical expression &#039;reading it off the notation&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The weakness of the grammar is that we do not have a parser that reflects the final grammar; such a parser is needed to test the grammar against a corpus of prepared sentences, ensuring that the grammar breaks sentences up the way we think it does. We are thus forced to use the random sentence generator as a &#039;backwards test tool&#039;, looking at the sentences it generates from the baseline grammar, and seeing that they match our intended grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, we don&#039;t anticipate that the grammar will change much before its final baseline when the dictionary is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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cmavo - The cmavo list in this issue is the first complete one in two years, and reflects a lot of changes. There could be a more cmavo added prior to final baseline, but probably very few (there isn&#039;t a lot of spare words available for adding); we expect almost no changes other than additions. The fact that the list has been published will serve as a stabilizing factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The keywords for the cmavo are likely to change. Simply put, they haven&#039;t been looked at by many people, and are inherently less valid than the gismu keywords. Since cmavo have little semantic meaning, we have to use short phrases that don&#039;t say a lot to try to convey the memory hook that an English keyword is supposed to provide. We&#039;d like feedback on the keywords, while recognizing that most readers don&#039;t know that many of the cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
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All in all, we&#039;ve accomplished a lot in just 3 years. With your support, imagine what the next 3 years will bring.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products Status ===&lt;br /&gt;
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First a reminder that the discount policy has been drastically changed, effective 1 August. A flat 20% surcharge outside of North America; a 20% discount for a paid order (positive balance exceeding the price at the time of shipment) over $20. (The discount will cancel the overseas surcharge.) Virginia orders should add 4.5% sales tax. Note also that for software, there is no surcharge for MS-DOS 3 1/2&amp;quot; diskettes, but you must specify in your order if you want them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that we cannot promise to fill your order unless it is prepaid; our finances are too thin right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook Status - Believe it or not, the textbook is finally started (again). Spaced around 3 issues of JL and one issue of LK in 3 months, planning and conducting LogFest, researching MEX and tense grammar in time for the grammar baseline, and assisting John Cowan in assembling the gismu list, along with some major work on our legal battle, Bob finally sat down at the keyboard shortly after midnight on July 4.&lt;br /&gt;
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The new version of the textbook is already unrecognizable as compared to the first, even though only 20 odd pages are written so far. The first lesson, which will serve as a language overview, is divided into short sections only a page or two long, with many examples and exercises in each section to help you see whether you understand. Using a much smaller vocabulary (perhaps only 25 gismu in lesson 1), we will examine much more of the basic grammatical features of the language. By page 20 you will be making Lojban sentences, hopefully with little trouble; in the draft lessons you did not make sentences until late in lesson 2 - about 80 pages along.&lt;br /&gt;
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The textbook will be more interesting to read. We are trying to put more interesting examples in (difficult with very little vocabulary). Several pages have boxed and highlighted recaps of the key points of the text. Many of the most significant and unique features of the language will be touched on by the end of the first lesson. You will know that Lojban is a truly different language quite quickly. The text also ties back to English examples, helping you understand better how English works, based on a comparison with Lojban. Thus, even if you never find a practical use for Lojban, you will receive benefits in terms of expressing yourself better in English (and any other language you learn).&lt;br /&gt;
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Under the current outline, the text is divided into three parts. The first part, which will consist of an introduction and the single overview lesson, will tell you about Lojban, lightly introducing the basic concepts and giving you the &#039;big picture&#039; of the language. Some areas are treated very lightly - pronunciation is conveyed only by guides that tell you how to say each word and sentence. This is because pronunciation is a &#039;big subject&#039; and a very boring one to start off with. We want you to be motivated to speak the language, not bored. Some of the topics are: the concepts of bridi, cmavo, selbri, tanru, sumti, place structures, conversion, ellipsis, elision, descriptions, abstractions, questions in Lojban. We include a brief summary of several other unique features that are too difficult to cover in the first lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
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Part II will be about ten lessons long, each much shorter than the draft lesson size. This part of the book will build depth on the basic concepts presented in the introduction and explain many of the secondary structures that you need to say what you want in Lojban. The Part II lessons continue to use a much smaller vocabulary than the draft lessons (perhaps 300 words), but expect you to look up some words that are not formally part of the vocabulary to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
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A major change is that we will not expect you to learn most of the gismu vocabulary within the first 8 or 9 lessons. While some people have demonstrated that it can be done, most students in the classes have not kept up with the expected pace. The current plan is to add an extra stage in LogFlash, before Gaining Control, that exposes you to a lot more words quickly, but does not expect you to master them. There will be only &#039;New Word lessons&#039;, &#039;error practices&#039; and some brief reviews in this introductory mode - the object is to have you quickly able to recognize more words in Lojban text and to learn the scope of the vocabulary. Many who have learned part of the vocabulary have tried to write sentences, but have not been able to find the right word because they didn&#039;t know it was there. You should do better using this modified technique.&lt;br /&gt;
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The goal is that by the end of Part II, you will have completed this initial review of the words, and will be started in &#039;Gaining Control&#039;, which will hopefully go much smoother for you as you work through Part III. We are hoping to shrink the huge demoralizing bubble of error words in the &#039;Failure Pile&#039; that seems to afflict many people.&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are the topics to be covered in Part II, according to the current outline. This is of course subject to change as the book is written:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 2 -     Pronunciation and Word Forms Some Classroom &lt;br /&gt;
       Expressions					   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 3 -     Learning	Vocabulary; Simple tanru           &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 4 -     Making Names				   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 5 -     Numbers					   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 6 -     tanru and lujvo;	selbri Structure	   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 7 -     sumti and Place Structures; Relative Clauses&lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 8 -     Tenses and Modals; se tcita sumti	   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 9 -     Logical Connectives and Negation		   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 10 -    Discursives and Vocatives		   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 11 -    Keeping Lojban Unambiguous and Clear	   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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By the time you start on Part III, you should know some 300 gismu and 50 cmavo by actually having used them in sentences. You will not be expected to produce longer text than single sentences. In Part II, grammatical features will be pretty much covered in isolation to help you recognize the key point of each section; this is a bit like Jim Brown&#039;s technique in Loglan 1, but the earlier introductory lesson will allow us to keep the concepts tied together much better than he was able to - you&#039;ll know the destination while travelling a most interesting journey through the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Part III, we will start presenting longer texts and dialogues, which will have enough vocabulary available to be meaningful and adult. Exercises will require you to more spontaneously produce original Lojban sentences, especially in a classroom or study group. Unlike the draft lessons, though, you should have the knowledge and confidence you need to make up sentences by the time we ask you to do so. In classroom use, bits of Lojban conversation should start occurring.&lt;br /&gt;
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After the first few lessons in Part III, the remaining lessons will be less oriented around specific concepts in the language than Part II. Instead, we will explore the vocabulary associated with some topic, present some of the more esoteric grammar points that are useful for talking about that subject, and then use the language to do just that. Some problems in translation and original composition in Lojban will be covered.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whereas Part II is called &#039;Learning Lojban&#039;, Part III is called &#039;Using Lojban&#039;. You will be expected to write and/or converse in the language throughout Part III, and should be comfortable doing so by the end of the book, with vocabulary limits as your main constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of writing ahead, but the book is off to a good start. Moreover, with the baselined grammar and the compiled cmavo list, we are much more confident that what gets written will not have to be continually rewritten.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;re not going to promise a publication date. As mentioned above, we&#039;ve learned a bit about the lengthy process of publishing a book if you want to make money at it (and we can&#039;t afford to lose money).&lt;br /&gt;
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What we can promise is that the book will be available to the Lojban community (you) in advance of the official publication date at a substantial discount. This helps us in that we pay for the printing bill without waiting for distributors and vendors to pay us, and it rewards you for sticking with us up until now. But to receive the best discount you must have a positive voluntary balance.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another progress report will be given next issue, and perhaps we&#039;ll be able to guess at a date by then.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Products - With the baseline of the grammar and the preparation of the cmavo list, we are moving forward on a variety of teaching products.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most directly dependent on the grammar and the cmavo list is the random sentence generator, which will also be used to test the grammar. It takes only a few days to incorporate the new standards, and we will probably have an update available by 1 October. The update price will be $10; due to our financial situation, we can no longer provide updates any cheaper than this. The original price will be $12.&lt;br /&gt;
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The lujvo-maker has now been completed, providing drills and demonstrations of both lujvo-making and decomposition. Updates are available for $10; the original price will be $12. The only future enhancement to the lujvo-maker that seems to make sense would be a feature that builds and tests le&#039;avla (borrowings) for proper structure. Because the lujvo-maker does not take a lot of space on a 360K floppy disk, we will include computerized text copies of various word lists and the grammar on the disk.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only stalled product based on the grammar is the Lojban parser; we have had no volunteers to complete the work. There is a possibility, however, that Jeff Prothero will soon have a new version of &#039;PLoP&#039;, his &amp;quot;Public Domain Loglan Parser&amp;quot; updated to the Lojban grammar. This would be an &#039;unofficial&#039; parser, using the YACC grammar, but not the YACC algorithm. PLoP is of a type called a &#039;recursive descent&#039; parser, which is more flexible than a YACC parser, but can be much slower. It will work fine on individual sentences up to some length, taking at most a few seconds, but it is very slow on blocks of text. By comparison, the last version of Jeff Taylor&#039;s parser processes a full page of text in a couple of seconds, albeit based on an older grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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A new version of LogFlash for MS-DOS machines will be prepared and hopefully released this fall, and it will be significantly enhanced. First of all, we are already testing &#039;LogFlash 3&#039;, which teaches the cmavo (we can provide this test version now to people who are ready to learn the cmavo and don&#039;t want to wait for the full release, but please don&#039;t ask for it unless you are ready to use it).&lt;br /&gt;
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Second of all, we are adding an initial review stage prior to &#039;Gaining Control&#039; that will quickly expose you to a lot of words in &#039;New Word Recognition mode&#039;, hopefully allowing you to read language text earlier while enhancing scores when you advance to the more difficult stages.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are also adding several user-friendly features. First will be an installation program that will ensure that floppy disk users have &#039;COMMAND.COM&#039; available, and unpack any packed data on disk automatically. LogFlash will ask you for confirmation before overwriting an existing file. It will allow you to tune the program by changing the default of 6 repetitions in error practices and/or the number of review words from the &#039;Under Control&#039; pile that are presented in each session. It will also allow you to more easily switch between learning modes. We will also be try to make large error practices more friendly, giving you a sense of progress by telling you how many times you have done a word successfully. An option we are considering will allow you to look at the entire list of words for a lesson prior to taking the test. We may also allow you to add or update your own memory hook data during the review portion of a lesson. (We welcome additional suggestions on how we can make the program more friendly, but we need your responses quickly.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We want to increase the speed of the program by reducing the amount that it has to read files from disk. We aren&#039;t sure how much work this will be, and are not making specific promises.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, we will also be adding instrumentation that will allow LogFlash to be used for scientific research into how different people learn words, most especially to see if recognition scores used to make Lojban gismu have any correlation with actual learning rates. Depending on finances, we may be offering a volunteer credit to anyone who (learns the words and) returns their instrumentation files within a specified time after we send you your order (instrumentation data is only useful to us if you work at LogFlash consistently - the time limit will help motivate you to keep at it).&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, the new LogFlash version will support the updated gismu list. The gismu list as it is being revised will allow 20-character keywords instead of 15, and the definition field will be 96 characters, instead of the current 40 character limit. As a result, the definitions will be much clearer and you should have a better idea what a Lojban word really means. We may be providing an editable hint field that you can use to add mnemonic aids, and we may also allow you to change the keywords from their official values to something more memorable (most useful to British users who have suffered American spellings for too long).&lt;br /&gt;
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Not included in this update are LogFlash versions that will teach place structures and grammar (although learning the modal cmavo of lexeme BAI will teach you a lot of important place structures). Maybe next year.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are hoping to have Eric Raymond&#039;s UNIX version of LogFlash available by the end of the year. Unfortunately, due to the lag in development time, both the UNIX version and the Mac LojFlash version will be stuck with the current file formats for a while. Dave Cortesi plans to update his Hypercard flash program for the MAC to use the new file formats; if so, this program will also be available at approximately the same time as the new version of PC LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are undecided about whether to produce and distribute the revised gismu list separately, as well as John Cowan&#039;s cmavo dictionary, or wait a few extra months and try to get it into a first edition dictionary format. The textbook effort will probably be the determining factor. Publishing these revisions will be lower priority, since you can use copies of the existing lists for most purposes. The revised lists would also be very expensive - the bi-directional gismu list might run up to 60 pages, and 100 pages if we add a thesaurus-sorted list. At those sizes, it would be cheaper to produce the dictionary; we don&#039;t have the money to maintain such large documents in inventory.&lt;br /&gt;
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We also want to publish a &#039;tiny gismu and cmavo list&#039;, having only keywords on the English side, that would be small enough to carry in your pocket or purse.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, the textbook and dictionary will be the centerpiece of our product line. We hopefully will be able to follow up these two books with a &#039;Best of JL&#039; and a first book of Lojban writings during 1991 - but this is again dependent on money.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We don&#039;t have a lot of news this time that is specific to the international Lojban community. We have now successfully processed Master Card/ Visa orders from overseas, as well as one larger Canadian-denominated check. We ask that those of you sending checks from Canada clearly indicate whether the check amount is in Canadian or American dollars; apparently some of your banks will issue U.S. dollar checks, and we do not need to use the more expensive service to process them. We can&#039;t be sure, however, that our banks here will process your check correctly if you are non-specific as to the currency.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our major international event in the next few months is Athelstan&#039;s planned visit to Europe. On that, we have worse than no news. Just as we were going to press with this issue, some problems came up that threaten whether the trip will take place as planned. It is possible that the trip may be delayed (causing Athelstan to miss Worldcon at the end of August), and possibly even cancelled.&lt;br /&gt;
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Assuming the trip does come off as planned, we have few additional itinerary details - only two of you have written to us letting us know you want Athelstan to visit. Athelstan does now have a point of contact in Europe. He plans to visit Peter and Mary Lynn in Goettingen, West Germany around the first week of September. If you haven&#039;t made contact with Athelstan by writing to us here, you can contact the Lynns:&lt;br /&gt;
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Peter and Mary Lynn&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Schopenhauer Weg 13&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Goettingen D3400 FDR&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;WEST GERMANY&lt;br /&gt;
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home telephone: (49)-551-706485&lt;br /&gt;
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Peter is also working on a German translation of the brochure, which may or may not be ready by Athelstan&#039;s visit.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan also plans to be in northern Italy around 21-23 September, visiting Lojbanist Silvia Romanelli (who also reports having translated some of the draft textbook lessons into Italian).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Institute published another Lognet around mid-July. Dr. Brown has apparently assumed editorship with Rex May&#039;s resignation reported last issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is little news in the issue. The issue was dominated by half of a paper by Rex May challenging some of the basic design points of the language. The second half of the paper is supposed to be in the next Lognet issue, and will present Rex&#039;s proposal for radical changes in the Loglan morphology. (Rex sent a copy of his paper to Bob for comment independent of submitting it to Dr. Brown.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dr. Brown discusses and responds to each of Rex&#039;s major points. Bob observes that Dr. Brown&#039;s discussion is an excellent defense of the basic language design, providing a few previously unknown historical details about the language design process. Most important of these is the revelation that Dr. Brown did conduct some &#039;engineering tests&#039; of the recognition scores algorithm used to make gismu, something we had no evidence of when we responded to Sheldon Linker&#039;s questions on the subject several issues ago. While we could wish that such tests were better documented, it is reassuring to be able to say to critics that they were conducted. All in all, our plaudits to Dr. Brown.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dr. Brown also reports on solutions to two outstanding morphological issues in Institute Loglan; these problems were discovered by Nora and raised in Bob and Athelstan&#039;s review of the 4th edition of Loglan 1 last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora is skeptical that the solution devised for names containing &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; will work universally, but with the Institute grammar a &#039;trade secret&#039;, it is impossible to analyze the current design. (Unlike Institute Loglan, Lojban forbids the various name markers from being embedded in names to prevent such problems.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The solution to the other problem, that of hyphenating borrowings, is similar to our own solution for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is brief mention that the Institute plans to revise The Loglanist under a new name, possibly by the end of the year. There also is a report that one of the Institute&#039;s software packages had a bug that is now fixed, but there were no details given.&lt;br /&gt;
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== JL11 Esperanto Discussion ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Response from Don Harlow&lt;br /&gt;
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[Don Harlow is editor of the Esperanto League of North&lt;br /&gt;
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America newsletter. His position makes him a natural spokesperson for the Esperanto community in responding to our essays in JL11. However, see also Ralph Dumain and John Hodges in the &#039;Letters&#039; section below for more comments on Lojban and Esperanto.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for the latest copy of Ju&#039;i Lobypli. I was particularly interested in Athelstan&#039;s comparison of Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; with a similar set of rules for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan is quite right in suggesting that &amp;quot;the rule set is incomplete.&amp;quot; In fact, the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; are largely a heuristic device created to introduce Esperanto to persons with a late 19th-century European education, by describing Esperanto in very simple terms relating the language to something more familiar to the student -- i.e., the Indo-European languages. This can be seen by the reference in rule 2 to the &amp;quot;two cases of Esperanto&amp;quot; (Esperanto has as many cases as any other language), the reference in rule 6 to the passive voice of verbs formed by compounding (there are no compound verbs in Esperanto), by the reference to the &amp;quot;imperative mood&amp;quot; in the same rule (the -U ending subsumes, but is hardly restricted to, the traditional IE imperative), and particularly by rule 8; logically, prepositions (which are basically case-forming morphemes) should govern an unmodified noun form, and it is only because of the contrast with the Indo-European languages, where they usually do not, that this rule is necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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The so-called &amp;quot;Fundamento de Esperanto&amp;quot; is, in fact, about 200 pages long, and includes the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; (repeated in five different languages), a complete dictionary of some four thousand roots -- an additional four thousand or so have been added to the canon since that time, plus between eight and sixteen thousand unofficial roots that need not be considered part of the language -- and a series of some 42 exercises designed by Zamenhof to demonstrate aspects of syntax and the Esperanto word-formation system. The &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; themselves are, as I say, a heuristic device, and a convenient skeleton on which to hang the language&#039;s &amp;quot;flesh.&amp;quot; Most of the material in these rules would, today, be better presented in tabular form.&lt;br /&gt;
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A few points about Athelstan&#039;s presentation:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Athelstan does &amp;quot;not describe word or sentence order....&amp;quot; This seems a bit ingenuous to me, since as far as I can tell word and sentence order play a more significant role in Lojban than they do in Esperanto, and so to describe a &amp;quot;set&amp;quot; of Esperanto rules and equate them to a single Lojban &amp;quot;rule&amp;quot; that is at a much higher level is not quite cricket. An example is rule 3. The Esperanto presentation of the morphology of the adjective is quite complete in four lines; the Lojban presentation says only that &amp;quot;any selbri may modify any other selbri by position,&amp;quot; but does not define how this is done (do selbri modify other selbri preceding them? by following them? by sitting in the next line up?) This is like saying that Lojban code is more concise simply because the reader is presented only with a subroutine call, while in the Esperanto code the reader is shown the entire content of the subroutine. The content is there in Lojban; Athelstan has merely found it convenient to overlook it.&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Granting Athelstan&#039;s contention that several of Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;single rules&amp;quot; contain other rules, he does himself the favor of counting some of those sub-rules more than once, if they are referred to in another &amp;quot;super-rule.&amp;quot; For instance, he counts the rule that the direct object is shown by affixing the -N ending at least three times (rule 2, rule 3, rule 5). The computer equivalent would be rewriting the subroutine each time it was called -- at which the compiler would, no doubt, burp.&lt;br /&gt;
# Given that Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; are a heuristic device, they are certainly more complete and successful than those presented by Athelstan for Lojban. Speaking &amp;quot;quantitatively,&amp;quot; they are accessible to a much wider range of people than the Lojban rules. The Esperanto rules refer largely to nouns, verbs, adjectives, past tenses, etc., which are terms that are generally recognizable to graduates of the seventh grade, or equivalent (my ten year old daughter is familiar with them, from school). Athelstan&#039;s Lojban rules, on the other hand, use unglossed terminology that might confound a college graduate -- anaphora, non-veridical, place tags, etc. (I consider myself moderately well educated, but I had to look up &amp;quot;anaphora&amp;quot; in a dictionary -- and was not much wiser for the experience.)&lt;br /&gt;
# Speaking &amp;quot;qualitatively,&amp;quot; Athelstan in many places describes his Lojban rules using Lojban terms that will have no meaning to the casual reader -- a rather recursive sort of action, if you ask me. &amp;quot;Lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi??? The definition of each one of those terms should be counted as a separate rule (axiom, if you will).&lt;br /&gt;
# Some comments on individual rules:&lt;br /&gt;
## The description of participles in Esperanto rule 6 is not properly part of this rule but belongs in the hidden (also for Esperanto!) working of word-building (rule 11 see below); the description of the passive voice properly belongs to the Ekzercaro. I do not, however, fault Athelstan for taking these items as he found them.&lt;br /&gt;
## &amp;quot;Every word is pronounced as it is spelt.&amp;quot; Pardon me for referring to Loglan rather than Lojban -- and if this is not also true for Lojban, you need not pay attention to this comment -- but this is not completely true for the language. Loglan treats the sound written in English as &amp;quot;CH&amp;quot; as a stop &amp;quot;t&amp;quot; followed by a fricative &amp;quot;sh&amp;quot;, written &amp;quot;tc,&amp;quot; rather than as, more correctly, a single harsh fricative halfway between the stop and the fricative. Brown was here apparently influenced by the (not invariably phonetic) International Phonetic Alphabet, which in this case appears to have been heavily influenced by French. Esperanto more correctly treats this single sound with a single letter. I am not sure whether Loglan and Lojban treat the single sound written in English as &amp;quot;ts&amp;quot; as two sounds (again as a stop followed by a sibilant, rather than as a single harsh sibilant) or as a single sound/letter (&amp;quot;c&amp;quot;) as in Esperanto. (A similar use of two letters to designate an intermediate sound is the occasional use of &amp;quot;kh&amp;quot; in English to describe the Esperanto &amp;quot;h^&amp;quot;, a sound intermediate between &amp;quot;k&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;h&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
## Esperanto&#039;s Rule 11, of course, refers to the Ekzercaro -- see particularly Exercise 42. Athelstan refers to some sort of &amp;quot;variant compounding rules&amp;quot;; I would be interested in seeing these. The actual rules describing the word-formation system are neat but complex; they were first formulated as late as 1910 by de Saussure, writing under the pen-name &amp;quot;Antido&amp;quot;, and expanded by Kalocsay in the 1920&#039;s in a well-known essay. The latest set appear in the Plen Analiza Gramatiko de Esperanto (1985 edition), where they fill some 148 pages and differ little form Kalocsay&#039;s earlier rules. That these rules are of little use and less interest to the practicing Esperantist can be seen from the fact that their earliest codification occurred some 23 years after the language began to be spoken; most people can figure the system out after looking at a page or so of examples, and never bother to refer to the rules, to which they don&#039;t have access anyway.&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, a couple of Athelstan&#039;s comments suggest that he isn&#039;t really qualified to comment on Esperanto in general, any more than I am on Lojban (which is why I keep correcting you on Esperanto rather than commenting on various points of Lojban grammar, syntax, etc.). For instance, on p. 20 he refers to &amp;quot;Esperanto&#039;s dependency on case declensions.&amp;quot; There are no declensions in the traditional/IE sense in Esperanto. The -N ending, to which he is probably referring, defines the target of an action (direct object) or, if no action is committed, the destination of a movement&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt;; it can be applied to adverbs as easily as to nouns and their accompanying adjectives. Again, the terms &amp;quot;nominative case&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;accusative case&amp;quot; in this sense are sops to Indo-European sensibilities; Esperanto has neither one in the narrow sense of a declension. In the broader sense, of course, it does have nominative and accusative cases, as do English, Chinese, or -- one presumes -- Lojban; it also has genitive, dative, instrumental, ellative, terminative, sociative, etc. cases, as do English, Chinese, and -- I again presume -- Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Regarding your own essay &amp;quot;On Comparing Lojban and Esperanto&amp;quot; let me make several short (I hope, as, I am sure you do) comments:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Under &amp;quot;aesthetics&amp;quot; you mention a couple of sentences that &amp;quot;are longer than the colloquial English translation&amp;quot;; and in an earlier issue you begged off translating a song from English into Lojban because the translation would be longer than the original. This seems to me to be an acceptance of the old saw that &amp;quot;any translation into any other language will average about 25% longer than the English original&amp;quot; -- and (a word to the wise) it seems to be a very dangerous attitude to take.&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt; Every translation I make into Esperanto from English comes out significantly shorter then the original. More than that, so far as I know a competent translator can get the same results in just about any language going. I would hope, for the sake of Lojban, that this &amp;quot;expansion effect&amp;quot; is a function of the translator rather than a function of the language. If not, it is a strike against Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
# You have again quoted the &amp;quot;like it is done in your own language&amp;quot; comment, which was not made by Zamenhof, but in the basic Interlingua textbook of 1950!!! Esperanto is extremely well-defined, partly through the 16 rules as described above, but mainly through the Ekzercaro, which also appeared in the Unua libro in 1887. No reference to outside languages was or is necessary. I thought we&#039;d been over that ground before! As to the Europeanness of Esperanto ... proof of the pudding. Esperanto&#039;s greatest successes in the past few years have been outside of the Indo-European language area. (From May to October of this year, a nationwide Esperanto course is running on Chinese television -- a more significant matter, I think, in a country with only one national TV network instead of four or five, and no more than two or three channels in even the largest cities.)&lt;br /&gt;
# The comment that &amp;quot;Lojban took 35 years to reach a point of development where it was speakable&amp;quot; might perhaps have been avoided. Esperanto took some 12-14 years to reach the point (1887) at which Zamenhof considered it optimal; but the Ur-Esperanto of 1878 was already speakable, at least according to the anecdotal information. That it took Lojban (I presume you mean Loglan) 35 years to reach the point at which it was speakable is not, I think, a point in its favor as a means of communication. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The rapid growth of Esperanto in its first years after public release was a spontaneous affair. You quote a figure of 8% a month growth in the number of Lojban students. Based on Zamenhof&#039;s published address lists -- and making a conservative assumption that only ten percent of those who claimed to be able to speak Esperanto could actually do so -- in the first half year after Esperanto&#039;s publication, the number of Esperanto speakers grew at a rate of more than 100% per month. (This high figure, of course, like your own, comes from starting with such a small base; and it dropped considerably by the early 1890&#039;s)&lt;br /&gt;
# You attribute some significance to the fact that you &amp;quot;NEVER [HEARD] A SINGLE CONVERSATION IN ESPERANTO&amp;quot; at the Esperanto table at Worldcon. I personally have met only one of the people who worked at that table (and he was there for only an hour or so), and I know that he speaks fluent Esperanto; I can&#039;t answer for the others. But when you&#039;ve sat at a few more tables at conventions, and have carried on a few conversations in Lojban under such circumstances, you will learn an interesting fact: more people -- or at least Americans -- are repelled when they hear a conversation they don&#039;t understand than are attracted.&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt; When possible, I always use English under such circumstances. (This is not always possible; at the last three conferences of the Foreign Language Association of Northern California that I&#039;ve attended as an exhibitor, my co-exhibitor and I have spoken nothing but Esperanto -- because he&#039;s a Rumanian, and not terribly comfortable in English.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hope that you have found all this of some interest.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds - That the 16 rules are intended only a heuristic device seems to be lost on many Esperantists, who often try compare the 16 rules to our set of YACC rules, which number about 550; Athelstan&#039;s effort was an answer to those critics. See Ralph Dumain&#039;s discussion and my response in the letters section below for more on this.&lt;br /&gt;
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Don effectively supports our assertion that the 16 rules have as a subtext the entire grammar of European languages. &amp;quot;The Esperanto rules refer largely to nouns, verbs, adjectives, past tenses, etc., which are terms that are generally recognizable to graduates of the seventh grade, or equivalent&amp;quot;. But these terms are only recognizable to students of European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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The emphasis should be on &#039;student&#039;, by the way. While Don&#039;s 10-year old may find the terms familiar, we have found college graduate English speakers who have long since forgotten the terminology of grammar classes. To many of our audience, &#039;noun&#039; is as bad as &#039;anaphora&#039; (maybe worse, since no one feels guilty that they don&#039;t know what anaphora are. Anaphora are, by the way, the superset of &#039;pronouns&#039; - the things that stand for and refer to earlier referents in the discussion; &#039;cataphora&#039;, the opposite term, cover variable words that refer to things in future discussion, but &#039;anaphora&#039; also is used as the general term covering both sets of variable reference words. Based on Don&#039;s comment, however, we will start using a Lojban lujvo &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot; - /bah,HEE,vlah/ for the general concept of &#039;anaphora&#039;; the source metaphor &#039;replacer-word&#039; should help people remember what the word means).&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan intentionally used specialized Lojban terms that were as opaque to a European language speaker as they would be to a speaker of a non-European language. This may help point out what a Chinese or Swahili speaker suffers reading the Esperanto rules. We don&#039;t seriously intend using the 11 Lojban rules as a heuristic device; as Don says, they just aren&#039;t very understandable. Furthermore, they cover no more of the Lojban grammar than the Esperanto rules cover of its grammar. However, they do help point out some ways in which Lojban is similar to European languages, including Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remain unconvinced that Esperanto&#039;s grammar is unlike Indo-European languages. As an example, contrary to what Don implies, the number and specific cases in a language are not universals, and are significant aids to classifying them. That a language has &#039;nouns&#039; and &#039;verbs&#039; and &#039;adjectives&#039; that work in ways familiar to us, that most sentences have a &#039;nominative&#039; agent case as the subject, usually appearing before the verb, and an &#039;accusative&#039; object case that usually appears right after the verb. These are anything but universal, though they are found in most, if not all Indo-European languages. Many languages have no nominative or accusative cases, being organized around cases called &#039;ergative&#039; and &#039;passive&#039;. Some languages do not even have a clearly identifiable subject, and Japanese has both &#039;subjects&#039; and &#039;topics&#039; that each serve some of the purposes of the Indo-European &#039;subject&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now what Don says later about the &amp;quot;-N&amp;quot; ending could be used to argue that Esperanto&#039;s cases are different from the Indo-European ones, but by standard linguistic terminology, that ending is a &#039;declension&#039; that marks its word as being in a case (grammatical role) which differs from the grammatical role it would be in if the declension were not present.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has NO grammatical cases. Linguists and artificial intelligence people can assign &#039;case labels&#039; to the various sumti places in the structure, but these are not grammatical cases. They are semantic cases that indicate the semantic relationship between the place and the rest of the sentence. In Lojban there are as many potential semantic cases as there are words in the language - an infinite number. The places defined in the place structure are merely those most essential to conveying a relationship. We list the places in the definitions of the words partly to remind people that Lojban bridi express relationships, and to remind them of the essentials of the concept to be related.&lt;br /&gt;
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In one sense, Lojban doesn&#039;t even have a &#039;subject&#039;. Technically, all of the sumti places are &#039;objects&#039; that are related by the selbri. However, in at least two ways, the 1st (x1) place of any given bridi predicate, whichever of the sumti it happens to be in a given arrangement, has a unique role among the places which might as well be labelled as &#039;subject&#039;, for consistency with the terminology of linguistics. We&#039;ll let linguists determine if the x1 sumti really is a &#039;subject&#039; in the traditional sense, or whether another term better applies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now it turns out that many of our relations resemble European languages in that the first place is often an agent and the second place is an object. This may represent a European bias, albeit unintentional. The intent is to include places in approximate order of frequency of use in discourse; our model for usage frequency is unfortunately the English language we hear most often. The desire to bring in a broader perspective before finalizing the structures is one reason why we are avoiding baselining the place structures until the last possible minute, and why place structures will be among the first things to be re-evaluated after the 5-year freeze.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, the resemblance does not give Lojban the Indo-European cases of Esperanto. There are no case endings, no grammatical requirements such as that adjectives must &#039;agree&#039; with a particular case. We have &#039;case tags&#039; in Lojban, but these are optional and even frowned upon for &#039;cases&#039; in the place structure, and anyway resembles a combination of &#039;prepositions&#039; and &#039;adverbs&#039; more than case inflections on words. (They also resemble what Don calls &#039;case-forming morphemes&#039;; however, in Lojban they are separate words that do not &#039;govern the form&#039; of any other word.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has no &#039;passive voice&#039; either - a &#039;passive voice&#039; is an artifact of Indo-European grammar which is used less in English and Germanic languages than in other European languages. In Lojban, there are various methods of rearranging the sumti places of a predicate. One might label any arrangement that doesn&#039;t have an active agent in the x1 position &#039;passive&#039;, but again, this isn&#039;t the same as the European &#039;passive voice&#039;. (See B. Comrie&#039;s books The World&#039;s Major Languages and Language Typology and Linguistic Universals for excellent discussions of the typological features of language.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is distinctly different from any natural language in several ways. The first step in learning Lojban, therefore, involves stepping out of the constraining ideas of natural language to learn these new concepts. Once that is accomplished, then for European speakers, Lojban is probably comparable in learning difficulty to Esperanto; Lojban has a somewhat simpler grammar, but Esperanto&#039;s roots are more highly recognizable to Europeans (and English speakers). For Chinese speakers, Lojban may actually be easier, since many features of Lojban&#039;s grammar at least superficially resemble Chinese features.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan ... describes his Lojban rules using Lojban terms ... The definition of each one of those terms should be counted as a separate rule (axiom, if you will).&amp;quot; - Should the definition of each of the Indo-European grammatical terms used in the Esperanto rules have also been counted as &#039;axioms&#039;? If so, I think Esperanto comes out far the worse for the added criteria. The number of specialized Lojban words we need to discuss the grammar is fewer than the number of words needed to discuss a European language.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan does &#039;not describe word or sentence order....&#039; This seems a bit ingenuous to me...&amp;quot; - There are two types of word order that can be talked about. The order of words of particular grammatical type in a sentence is specified by the entire set of rules of the grammar. There is no meaningful &#039;rule&#039; or &#039;rules&#039; that govern this kind of word order. The order of the places for a given brivla, on the other hand, is not a grammatical issue in Lojban at all, unlike European languages and Esperanto (I understand that Chinese is also relatively free in word order).&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, Athelstan did not discuss word order because it is not part of the Lojban grammar. The order of the places is part of the semantic meaning of each word, just as the meanings of &#039;subject&#039; and &#039;object&#039; for each Esperanto verb are part of the meaning of that verb. From our perspective, such semantic rules are at a lower level of the language than grammatical rules. Lojban has no higher level rule that can be said to govern the order of places. There may be some patterns, but we haven&#039;t really tried to find them.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The Esperanto presentation of the morphology of the adjective is quite complete in four lines; the Lojban presentation ... does not define how this is done (do selbri modify other selbri preceding them? by following them? by sitting in the next line up?)&amp;quot; - The Lojban &#039;morphology of the adjective&#039; is complete in zero lines, since we don&#039;t have adjectives. selbri modify other selbri in many ways, some of which are adjective-like. The modification can be left-modifies-right or right-modifies-left, logical connection, or non-logical connection. In all but the simplest left-to-right modification, there are cmavo that can be translated literally into English or other languages, revealing the order, and we believe that all possible orders and groupings can be represented in some way. Athelstan simply didn&#039;t find anything to say about Lojban that corresponded to what was being said in the Esperanto rule. What he said was complete and accurate - position in a Lojban sentence totally determines what modifies what.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for Don&#039;s facetious suggestions on how selbri might modify each other by position, I reply in kind: do Esperanto adjectives get written on the line before?&lt;br /&gt;
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Interestingly, in other places, Don excuses his 16 rules for non-specificity: &amp;quot;the description of the passive voice properly belongs to the Ekzercaro&amp;quot; and talking about word-formation rules &amp;quot;they fill some 148 pages&amp;quot;. Again, our purpose was to compare what was present in the Esperanto rules with a corresponding level of detail about the Lojban rules. We recognize that neither set of rules is complete; we want to be able to point this out to Esperantists that cite the 16 rules as a statement of Esperanto&#039;s simplicity. So Don has made our point for us.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Most Esperantists ... definitely obey a particular rule of word-formation ... -- one that, so far as I know, has never been written down, and would be difficult to codify in a few simple sentences.&amp;quot; - Hopefully Lojban is sufficiently regular that no one ever will have to say this about the language. Our word compounding rules are quite rigid, and yet fairly unrestricted. We don&#039;t constrain any word from modifying another, and provide some fairly esoteric grammatical conversions to allow you to combine concepts that are grammatically incompatible.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan refers to some sort of &#039;variant compounding rules&#039;&amp;quot; - I believe Athelstan was referring to the extensive set of additional rules, not conveyed in the set of 16, that take 148 pages to describe, as well as rules such as the ones Don describes as not written down.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... he does himself the favor of counting some of those sub-rules more than once, if they are referred to in another &amp;quot;super-rule.&amp;quot; - Athelstan was merely trying to show that the &#039;super-rule&#039; grouping concealed the true rule count. The exact number of rules, I&#039;d hoped we had demonstrated, was quite irrelevant. Lojban&#039;s 550-odd stated rules, by the way, are expanded by YACC into about 800 unique computer-labelled &#039;states&#039; which correspond to expanding and repeating each of the &#039;subroutines&#039; Don refers to as often as is necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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A Lojban-based computer process does not choke on such expansion, since the expansion is a natural product of YACC. When we say Lojban is grammatically unambiguous, it is because in each of these 800 states, by looking at the next word only, a Lojban processor knows what state to go to next. The grammar process consists simply of jumping from state to state until the end is reached.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Loglan treats the sound written in English as &#039;CH&#039; as a stop &#039;t&#039; followed by a fricative &#039;sh&#039;, written &#039;tc,&#039; rather than as, more correctly, a single harsh fricative halfway between the stop and the fricative. Brown was here apparently influenced by the (not invariably phonetic) International Phonetic Alphabet, which in this case appears to have been heavily influenced by French. Esperanto more correctly treats this single sound with a single letter...&amp;quot; - Correct by whose standard? (Correctness always has a standard, as any Lojbanist knows from the place structure of &amp;quot;drani&amp;quot;). The IPA is the standard alphabet of linguistic phonology, and hence is the way that one must describe sounds when talking to a linguist. To claim that the linguistic standard phonetic alphabet is wrong because it doesn&#039;t agree with Esperanto seems a bit backwards.&lt;br /&gt;
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The combination of a stop and a fricative is called an &#039;affricate&#039; and can be treated as either one sound or as two. In Lojban, we treat all affricates, including &#039;tc&#039; and &#039;ts&#039;, as two sounds; so do most linguists.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is due to the simple reason that if you say the stop and the fricative together, they phonetically blend to form the affricate in a way indistinguishable to most listeners. Thus, if we were to write the affricates as a single letter, we would have to forbid the two-letter combinations that are equivalent. Since no other single letter sound in Lojban can alternatively be expressed as two sounds, to match the Esperanto distinction in only a couple of cases would be inconsistent. (Does Esperanto forbid the two-letter equivalent combinations of the affricates to prevent confusion?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto&#039;s approach causes untold heartache to typists, forcing the addition of non-standard diacritical marks to several letters to fit the language within the Roman alphabet. (There is at least one typo in the Esperanto rules because of this - I forgot to manually go back and add an Esperanto diacritical mark that is not supported by my word processor or printer.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is not consistent on the matter of the affricates, by the way. While representing the affricate sounds that are expressed by Lojban &#039;tc&#039; and &#039;ts&#039; with a single letter, as well as the voiced equivalent of the first (&#039;dj&#039; = English &#039;j&#039;), Esperanto does not have the voiced equivalent of &#039;ts&#039; as a single letter as consistency would require. The sound of &#039;dz&#039; in it is expressed using two letters in Esperanto words (an example is found in one of Don&#039;s footnotes), even though it is a &#039;single sound&#039; by the identical logic as the other three.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Comrie&#039;s book on the languages of the world, similar comments to mine are made in explaining why &#039;ts&#039; and others are not considered as one in Germanic languages. It is pointed out that linguistically, any stop can be combined with any fricative, and each such &#039;affricate&#039; combination could be treated as one sound or as two. Examples include &#039;ps&#039;, which will be recognized from Greek, and &#039;pf&#039; from German. But neither Esperanto nor English nor Lojban treat &#039;ps&#039; or &#039;pf&#039; as a single sound.&lt;br /&gt;
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Don is wrong in equating the &#039;kh&#039;/Lojban &#039;x&#039; sound with the two affricates. &#039;x&#039; is a pure fricative - called an &#039;unvoiced velar fricative&#039; or an &#039;unvoiced palato-velar&#039; fricative depending on exactly where the tongue is placed (these are the sounds of German &#039;doch&#039; and &#039;ich&#039;, respectively). The &#039;x&#039; sound linguistically has nothing to do with an &#039;h&#039; sound, which is actually formed in the epiglottal region. That we represent &#039;x&#039; as &#039;kh&#039; in English is a convention; it has nothing to do with sounds (notwithstanding this, trying to combine a &#039;k&#039; with an &#039;h&#039; will give a reasonable &#039;x&#039; sound).&lt;br /&gt;
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Unlike English and German, IPA does use a single letter for this sound. (The true velar affricates - combinations of stops and fricatives - aren&#039;t pronounceable either as single or double sounds for English speakers - in Lojban, they would be expressed as &#039;kx&#039; and &#039;gq&#039;, if &#039;q&#039; is defined as the voiced equivalent of &#039;x&#039; - found in Arabic as the sound at the beginning of Libyan leader Qaddafi&#039;s name.)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... the old saw ... &#039;any translation into any other language will average about 25% longer than the English original&#039; ...&amp;quot; - Almost any literal translation will take longer than the original. Translating Lojban to English literally is usually even more expansive than 25%, often 2- to-1 or greater; just look at any of our translations here in JL. On the other hand, the reverse direction gives the same result.&lt;br /&gt;
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The translator&#039;s art involves producing idiomatic non-literal translations that capture the approximate sense of the original. This will sometimes be shorter, sometimes longer, since the source language may be using an idiom that has no counterpart in the target language (which is always the case with Lojban at this point). Also, almost any culturally-based word has to be expanded into a phrase in another language if meaning is to be preserved. If Don is &#039;always shorter&#039; as he claims, he is undoubtedly omitting subtleties of the source language version that he considers either obvious or irrelevant given the context. If he is correct, he is a true artist; otherwise, his readers are missing useful and perhaps important information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Lojban, there are other factors, based on its unusual grammar. Where logical structure is always explicit, the convoluted logic of some English sentences has to be expanded to great length; on the other hand the English &amp;quot;it is not the case that&amp;quot; is expressed briefly as Lojban &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;. When Athelstan translated Saki (see JL10) he found the resulting text was about the same length or shorter. (There are actually more words, since Lojban words seem to average about 30% shorter than English words; there are also more syllables - Lojban words seldom have syllables more than 3 letters and certainly not as long as &#039;strengths&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I doubt that Don&#039;s objection to the old saw proves true for all languages, by the way. I suspect that regardless of the translator, most Romanized Chinese (where most words are one or two syllables) translates to Russian (with inflectional suffixes that are one or two syllables long on most words) resulting in a longer text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;That it took Lojban 35 years to reach the point at which it was speakable is not, I think, a point in its favor as a means of communication.&amp;quot; - Wrong. It shows that we were diligent in our research. And with good reason; we know much more about language now than in Zamenhof&#039;s time, and we have a tougher and more skeptical audience (the academic world) to please. We also had a bigger job to do, since Lojban was designed from scratch.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether or not Don is right about the Indo-European-ness of Zamenhof&#039;s grammar, there is no doubt that Zamenhof started with European grammar and simplified. We (originally Brown and later others as well) started with nothing except a goal of matching predicate logic structures, and the vague notion of speakability. Because we had no working language to emulate, there were undoubtedly going to be false starts and re-engineering of major features. I suspect that much of Zamenhof&#039;s development period was used to select the root word stock; only a small fraction of Loglan/Lojban development time has gone into word-making.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a sense, Esperanto took the entire evolutionary period of Indo-European grammar to be developed. (Of course, by the same logic, Lojban took 2500 years, since predicate logic was invented, to be developed).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(You can also compare the actual Esperanto development period with the time that we&#039;ve taken to redevelop the Lojban version of Loglan from scratch to avoid copyright - less than 3 1/2 years so far, and I suspect that our design is far more intricately specified than Zamenhof&#039;s was when he published. By Don&#039;s histories that I&#039;ve read, I gather that Esperanto was not complete in a sense of being standardized until sometime after 1900. Depending on your definitions, we will be comparably standardized either when the textbook and dictionary are done or after the 5 year baseline period proves the language is stable.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been told that a major milestone occurred as late as 1905 when the annual Esperanto meeting was first conducted in Esperanto; at this meeting it could first truly be said that Esperanto was a &#039;living language&#039;. Lojban should achieve that status in a much shorter time, although possibly with a smaller speaker base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I note that Jim Brown considered his language speakable in 1977, or possibly even earlier (there are reports that a group called the &#039;Loglan Sogrun&#039; conversed to a minimal extent in the 60&#039;s). Brown actually tried to teach the language to college students in the 50&#039;s - though with no particular success - and sold books teaching the language starting in 1966.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown&#039;s books of the 60&#039;s were probably as complete as Zamenhof&#039;s 1888 book, but Brown did not have the follow-through that Zamenhof did, nor the &#039;market&#039; ripe for the language that Zamenhof had with the simultaneous collapse of Volapk. Also, to put it simply, Brown&#039;s books, while they explained things in considerable detail, had no text longer than individual sentences. They were thus at best mediocre in teaching the language for actual use. But this was not a flaw in the language or its design, but rather in its inventor&#039;s teaching and writing style.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban has had an added handicap over Esperanto - a changing plural set of goals which is more than mere &#039;speakability&#039;, and rising standards on what it takes to achieve those goals. The standard of unambiguity changed with the development of computer tools like YACC, and a language thought to be unambiguous suddenly wasn&#039;t. I believe I&#039;ve done more work researching language universals than Brown did.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole point of the JL11 discussion, of course, was that comparison of development periods just isn&#039;t practical, and the various numbers in the above discussion should prove this. But Athelstan and I were trying to respond to comments and questions that have been frequently raised by Esperantists. If the &#039;35-year&#039; development effort can be claimed as a strike against us, we have the right to argue it as a virtue instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;... more people -- or at least Americans -- are repelled when they hear a conversation they don&#039;t understand than are attracted. When possible, I always use English under such circumstances.&amp;quot; - I was merely observing that at a convention table &#039;selling&#039; a language, it seemed strange not to hear the language. I would expect that Americans are not much repelled to hear a &#039;strange&#039; language if they expect to hear one, and one would expect to hear one at an Esperanto table, which is not a BART train. I certainly did, which is why I made the comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(On the other hand, Americans are often offended to hear a language other than English when visiting a foreign country, but this is the Americans&#039; problem, not the natives. In the US these days, perhaps 10-20% of the people have a native language other than English, so Americans will have to get used to hearing things other than English.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also have a different philosophy as to what it takes to sell a new language to Americans. If you use English whenever that is a possibility because it is a common language, you merely support the argument that &#039;we don&#039;t need Esperanto (or Lojban) because English is already spoken by most everyone who wants to talk to people from another culture&#039;. Regardless of whether it is true or not, the average American is going to think that you are speaking English because it is easier or more convenient than Esperanto. And if it IS easier for you to speak English than Esperanto to another Esperantist, you are missing out on a prime opportunity to learn to speak it better, while demonstrating that the language is useful to passers-by (something most of them are probably unconvinced of).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I can speak Lojban fluently I will try to speak Lojban at convention tables promoting the language, if the other people manning the table also speak comparably well. If I have problems with people who seem repelled, I&#039;ll add a sign inviting them to ask us what we&#039;re saying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will entice people and cause them to see that we think the language is worth speaking when we could be speaking English instead; they will also be curious as to what we are saying, and we&#039;ll happily explain. This may not be how it works out in reality, but this is our goal, and our limited experience so far is that using the language in public prompts curiosity and not repulsion. (We&#039;ve done nicely at conventions with people who notice our buttons with the slogan &amp;quot;e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we&#039;re wrong, Don can say &amp;quot;I told you so&amp;quot;. But if this turns out to be the case, then I am most pessimistic that any language will be acceptable as an International language to Americans. At any given time on the path to acceptance, there will be Americans who don&#039;t know the language. If a foreigner is not going to learn English (in which case English is the international language), then the American must learn Esperanto or whatever before the need arises where it must be used, or she/he won&#039;t be fluent when that need arises. And this means speaking the language extensively with English-speaking cohorts before then, by definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In any event, to go from a few thousand to 250 million Americans speaking a particular foreign language will take some aggressive (and skillful) marketing which may be offensive to some people. Possibly as offensive as the USEnglish people are in promoting English (whether one agrees with their opinions or not, their words and tactics are pushy and offensive). The trick is to market aggressively while minimizing offense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I should note that I while I disagree with Don on this point, I find many of the Esperanto marketing techniques quite skillful, and hope that we Lojbanists can learn from them. This is only practical under a cooperative, as opposed to competitive relationship between the two communities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Footnotes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Your example on p. 25, &amp;quot;X1 is good for X2 by standard X3,&amp;quot; which I presume is written in Lojban -- from your past references to Prolog -- as something like &amp;quot;Good X1 X2 X3&amp;quot; - - would indicate that the position rules in Lojban are much more complex than those in English, and vary from property to property. With regard to my later comments on case, the descriptive rule for speakers of Indo-European languages would be: &amp;quot;The property good relates a noun in the nominative case in the immediately subsequent position, a noun in the dative case in the third position, and a noun in the &amp;quot;standardize&amp;quot; case in the fourth position.&amp;quot; Hopefully Lojban&#039;s rules are more consistent than some of those of English, in which, for instance, the accusative succeeds a positional dative but precedes a prepositional one...&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Some of these rules have not yet been codified. For instance, Kalocsay and Waringhien, the authors of PAG, recognize that Esperantists regularly use adjective roots as prefixes for noun roots -- novedzino, dikfingro are common examples -- but do not admit that this usage is grammatically justified. Most Esperantists go on doing this anyway, and they definitely obey a particular rule of word-formation in doing so -- one that, so far as I know, has never been written down, and would be difficult to codify in a few simple sentences.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;Which, if we suppose the -N ending to mark the accusative case in the traditional Indo-European sense, makes vers such as &amp;quot;to go&amp;quot; transitive in Esperanto -- something most IE languages would not allow.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt;When I was young I read -- in a number of places -- that no other language is nearly as good as English for swearing. In fact, English is a rather pale language in this regard; compare it with any Eastern European language, for instance.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt;I was carrying on a private conversation in Esperanto on a BART train a week ago, and was excoriated for this by the middle-aged lady sitting next to me.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Masters of Tongue Fu ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Donald J. Harlow&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
originally published in The ELNA Newsletter&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;reprinted with permission&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When people say &amp;quot;International Language&amp;quot; today, they are probably talking about Esperanto. In China, in fact, the language is better known as shi jie yu, which simply means &amp;quot;international language,&amp;quot; than as &amp;quot;Esperanto.&amp;quot; In those parts of the world where &amp;quot;interlinguistics&amp;quot; is an accepted part of the science of linguistics, articles on the subject -- if they are not purely historical in nature -- will almost certainly refer almost exclusively to Esperanto. Discussions of the literature of artificial languages will concentrate totally on that of Esperanto, since only very underdeveloped literatures exist for other artificial languages, and for most of them, don&#039;t exist at all. Any study of the sociology of an artificial language, too, will concern itself only with Esperanto, since only two other artificial languages ever had populations of adherents even remotely comparable to that of Esperanto, and then only for very short periods of time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But Esperanto is neither the first not the only &amp;quot;international language.&amp;quot; Attempts to create such a language go back at least to the thirteenth century, when the Abbess Hildegarde of Rupertzberg, a lady more recently exhumed -- and justly so! -- by the women&#039;s movement, the gnostics, and various musical organizations (how refreshing it is that Hildegarde, one of the earliest of the &amp;quot;Renaissance Men,&amp;quot; was a woman!), created her &amp;quot;Lingua Ignota.&amp;quot; The philosophers Comensky, Leibniz, and Descartes all wrote about the international language; Bishop Berkeley worked at developing one. In the last century, the Frenchman Sudre created Solresol, a language meant to be whistled or trumpeted, and it enjoyed a very long period of popularity in some circles in France; at one point the French military even considered adopting it, possible because trumpets can be heard over greater distances than shouted commands. Who knows? Had the French followed through with this idea, their defeat in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871 might not have occurred, and all later history would have been different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No one knows how many &amp;quot;international languages&amp;quot; have actually been proposed. The figure certainly exceeds a thousand. These range from genuine a priori languages, all of whose material is invented out of whole cloth, to slightly modified ethnic languages, such as Basic English. But of the thousand or so such languages, only a few have ever attained any degree of popularity, and most of that has been spurious -- a creation of the news media, ever in search of some new and interesting story. Chronologically, these most famous of international languages have been: Volapk, Esperanto, Ido, Occidental, Basic English, and Interlingua. For those who know little or nothing about the origins and fates of these languages, I would like to give an introduction to them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volapk was invented in 1880 by a German priest, Monsignor Johann Martin Schleyer. Schleyer, a polyglot, recognized among his less talented parishioners the need for a language to communicate across national boundaries, and set our to create on. The result was Volapk. The language enjoyed tremendous popularity over the next decade, but, because of certain aspects of its grammar and vocabulary, it generated a strong movement for reforms among many of its speakers; and Schleyer, who saw himself as the language&#039;s Pope, so to speak, refused to even consider such reforms. The language&#039;s most vocal adherents split into two factions, one supporting Schleyer and on supporting his chief opponent, a French professor named Auguste Kerckhoffs. The resulting struggle destroyed the language, many of whose proponents in any case were shifting their allegiance to the rising (green) star of Esperanto by the end of the eighties. By the beginning of the new century, Volapk was all but dead, though at least one (very small, very irregular) bulletin in the language seems to have appeared as late as 1960. When Bernard Golden went in search of speakers of Volapk on the language&#039;s 100th birthday, he found a total of ten -- all of whom also spoke Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is worth noting, however, that at its peak Volapk boasted perhaps 100,000 adherents -- though how many of them could actually speak the language is open to question. In this regard, it is interesting that it shared several characteristics with Esperanto. The two of these that are perhaps most important, in my view, are: (1) an agglutinative system of word-formation, in contrast to the standard Indo-European system (more correctly: lack of a system); and (2) the desire of the inventor to solve the problem of communication between people of different languages, not just to invent an artificial language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t want to go into Esperanto&#039;s history in any detail here. If you want to read a good book about the early period, get a copy of Edmond Privat&#039;s Historio de la Lingvo Esperanto, or his Vivo de Zamenhof. I would only wish to say that, more than a hundred years into its existence, Esperanto&#039;s eventual fate has not yet been decided. Given that over its history the language has had few friends, except for a (relatively few) far-sighted and courageous souls who have actually gone out and learned it, while it has succeeded in gaining for itself a notable array of enemies -- Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin spring immediately to mind -- the staying power that the language has demonstrated is quite encouraging.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me only add here that Zamenhof, like Schleyer, was interested not in creating and artificial language but in finding some viable solution to the problem of communication between different peoples. And in Zamenhof&#039;s case -- he was a Jew living in late 19th century Russia -- the problem was far from a theoretical one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Zamenhof stated (in his First book) that Esperanto was not our typical European language. Arguments over Esperanto&#039;s Europeanness go on even today. Certainly, despite recent modest accretions from Japanese and other non-European languages, Esperanto&#039;s lexical material remains primarily European, chiefly Romance, in origin. Other aspects of the language&#039;s structure are less convincingly European. Certain tendencies in popular use of the language -- for instance, the occasional doubling of short adjective roots to show emphasis, rather than through use of the -EG suffix -- show a pattern of thought in the language reminiscent of Chinese.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t intend to argue here over whether Esperanto is fundamentally European or non-European; but certainly many early speakers of the language in Western Europe found it less European (more particularly, less West-European) than they would have liked. This was particularly true in France, where many early leaders of the national Esperanto movement would have preferred a more Francophone, or even Anglophone, tone to the language. A few of these gentlemen, in fact through a rather underhanded process, set themselves up as &amp;quot;reformers&amp;quot; of Esperanto, and in 1907 produced a version of Esperanto that appeared much more in tune with the linguistic norms of the world -- i.e., French and English. For a while, they expected that their new language would replace classical Esperanto, but when this did not happen -- a vast majority of ordinary speakers of the language refused to make the necessary changes in their habits -- the &amp;quot;reformed Esperanto&amp;quot; split off and became an artificial language in its own right, Ido.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While Ido shows a decided shift away from Esperanto&#039;s agglutinative word-formation system, back towards a more Western European orientation, it does not represent a complete break with the linguistic ideas expressed first in Volapk and then more clearly in Esperanto. The real difference between the two languages lay in the motivations of the men who developed them. It is fairly apparent that the problem of communication was of little interest to Prof. Louis Couturat, Louis de Beaugront, and Major Charles Lemaire, the primary motors behind the development of Ido; they were more concerned with what they saw as Esperanto&#039;s linguistic blemishes. This is hardly surprising; the pleasant little conspiracy into which they entered for the purpose of replacing that Russian Jewish eye-doctor as the guiding force in the international language movement shows in them an ethical blind spot that would not fit well with a genuine concern for the communications needs of ordinary people. Insofar as I do did prosper -- and it prospered, in fact, much more than did any other &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; except Volapk and Esperanto -- it did so, I believe, despite the people behind it, not because of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ido, in fact, appears to have attained a maximum population of about 10,000 adherents by the early 1920&#039;s -- not all that far behind Esperanto in that period. But as the ranks of Esperanto swelled through the twenties, to reach more than a hundred thousand by 1930, those of Ido appear to have declined. It nevertheless remains extant even today, though in what seems to be a basically moribund state. Ido, like Esperanto, has actually produced a small original literature -- though, strangely enough, so far as I know the only genuine literary work ever published in Ido, a collection of original poetry, was published by the Kultura Centro Esperantista in Switzerland.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent newspaper article about another constructed language project referred to Esperantists as &amp;quot;verbal hobbyists.&amp;quot; As a matter of fact, Ido did much to cull the verbal hobbyists out of the Esperanto movement very early on. One result of this is that, for many years, the Esperanto movement has been remarkably free of individuals who see the language only as an interesting project, whose main purpose in existing is to improve itself by adopting their recommended reforms. Another result is that the Ido movement ended up consisting mainly of just such people. It is hardly surprising, then, that when yet another &amp;quot;improved&amp;quot; international language came along, it would skim off a far greater percentage of members from the Ido movement than from the Esperanto movement. This language was Occidental, proposed in 1922 by the Estonian Edgar De Wahl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language&#039;s very name gives away De Wahl&#039;s motivation. An early Esperantist, he also abandoned the language early on, apparently in protest against its non-traditional structure. Whether he was ever a practicing Idist, I don&#039;t know, but suspect that from the time he left Esperanto he followed a very different and more radical route. Occidental, built upon the basis of an earlier project, Julius Lott&#039;s Mundolingue, can best be described, I think, as a late and very highly rationalized Romance dialect, with noticeable German accretions. It was, in fact, nothing less than an attempt to codify West European thought processes in a constructed language. Supporters of Occidental justified this by asserting that civilization, being essentially European in nature, should be represented by an essentially European language. In this way, the language would help make the blessings of European thought available to the rest of the world -- or help keep the rest of the world under the European thumb, as the more cynical might tend to think.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The nineteen thirties were, in some ways, the apogee of language construction; Occidental was merely the most successful and best known of a series of attempts to create a new international language. The famous Danish linguist Otto Jespersen, for instance, a long-time mainstay of the Ido movement, abandoned the language in favor of his own project, Novial, which was largely a clone of Occidental. But the best-known project of this period probably remains Basic English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Basic English, invented in 1930 by the Englishman C. K. Ogden, was an attempt to simplify English and make it more suitable for international use. Ogden claimed to have reduced the entire vocabulary of the language to 850 words. The problem was that his claims were spurious; the language included far more than 850 words (Ogden did not count &amp;quot;international&amp;quot; words such as alcohol in his 850 word vocabulary, though they were considered part of the language; and he added several 1000-word technical vocabularies). Also, many people felt that Basic English was merely a &amp;quot;Trojan horse&amp;quot; for a more standard brand of the language. The event proved this latter group correct; in the 1960&#039;s, the British Council, a government-sponsored organization devoted to spreading English among the heathens, bought the rights to Basic English, and since that time it has been used only as in introduction to standard (read: British) English. Though several famous English-speakers supported the language from time to time, among them Winston Churchill and H. G. Wells (who, in The Shape of Things to Come, had the whole world speaking Basic English), no popular movement for this language was ever generated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of the growing number of language projects, there was some confusion as to which one would be, or even should be, the ultimate international language. This confusion had begun when Volapk, which had offered such high hopes to the world, fell apart and was replaced by Esperanto; and it had become endemic when the Ido schism occurred in 1907. By the late twenties, with Esperanto and Ido and Occidental and who knew how many other projects vying for attention, it was understandable that the ordinary individual would throw up his hands in disgust. An American Esperantist, Mrs. Alice Vanderbilt Morris -- of the New York Vanderbilts, I believe -- funded the establishment of a new organization to do research into the problem and find some sort of acceptable solution, for instance a compromise between the different language projects. The organization was called the International Auxiliary Language Association, or IALA for short.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IALA, located in England, though it did valuable research work, had little luck in convincing anyone to compromise. The Romance-based &amp;quot;naturalistic&amp;quot; languages such as Occidental and Novial would not be ready to yield in the direction of &amp;quot;schematic&amp;quot; Esperanto; and Esperantists at that time were not yet ready to forgive the Idists for the dirty work at the 1907 crossroads. In any case, the Esperantists, who even then made up between 80 and 95% of the entire International Language movement, felt that they had no need to compromise. Furthermore, by the mid thirties they had other and more pressing problems to attract their attention -- proscriptions in Germany and the USSR, for instance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, IALA, after moving to the United States at the outbreak of war, came under the directorship of Dr. Alexander Gode, and set out to create its own language, which was published in 1950 and given the name Interlingua.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interlingua is even more quintessentially Romance that Occidental, and in its turn attracted away many of the remaining adherents of Occidental, which tried to stave off the inevitable by renaming itself &amp;quot;Interlingue.&amp;quot; But again its creator really had no interest in resolving communications problems; he himself stated that his real purpose was to provide the world with a &amp;quot;standard average European&amp;quot; vocabulary, culled from the Romance languages. Interlingua made modest inroads in the American press&#039;s coverage of attempts to solve the language problem through the fifties and early sixties, and there exists a small Interlingua movement, mainly in Europe, even today; but the language never had the widespread support that Esperanto developed even in its earliest years. Its one notable success was in giving the coup de grace to Occidental, whose last magazine bit the dust in 1985.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To recap the situations of these various languages today:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Volapk is a dead issue and has been for the better part of a century. It is not and has not ever been represented by any kind of corpus of literature.&lt;br /&gt;
# Esperanto continues to grow, and today boasts at least two million speakers, perhaps more, of whom some one hundred thousand actively use the language and participate in the movement to promote the language. Some 150 to 200 periodicals appear regularly in the language, not counting local club bulletins. It has a large and growing body of literature, both original and translated.&lt;br /&gt;
# Ido retains a small movement and several periodicals to link that movement, though none of them seem to appear more often than quarterly. It has a very small body of original and translated literature.&lt;br /&gt;
# Occidental is dead.&lt;br /&gt;
# Basic English as a separate language is dead.&lt;br /&gt;
# Interlingua has a small relict supporting movement, mainly in Europe. It has few if any periodicals, and no body of original literature to speak of.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although Interlingua is not the only postwar entry into the international language competition, it is the only one to receive any publicity and to generate a supporting movement of any size. And it is a product of the year 1950. It appears that, to a great extent, the production of such languages peaked in the 1930&#039;s, and went largely out of style after the Second World War. Why?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would tend to blame the apparent &amp;quot;success&amp;quot; of English for this. The War gave French, already in decline, a deathblow, and by about 1950 it was apparent that English was destined to become the international language, by default. So what need for Esperanto, Interlingua, Ido, and other entries into the competition? The outcome was already decided. The other postwar projects -- the Romanids, Neos, Intals, Loglans, etc. -- were doomed to obscurity. Esperanto survived this period, and even prospered to some degree, not because people saw it as the coming world language (though there were those who never lost this hope) but because (a) it had already developed an independent infrastructure that could keep it going even through the most difficult periods -- as Soviet Esperantists proved during the period from 1937 to 1956 -- and (b) it had already developed other reasons for existence besides as a solution to the world language problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the success of English has always been more apparent than real. The growth of English in the intervening period carried the language from 11% of the world&#039;s population to about 8.5% -- not the most inspiring rate of growth. Where English has failed, of course, we have tended to blame local conditions for this, or to assume that this failure is non-representative of the world as a whole -- as when, for instance, after a hundred years of concentrated English teaching has not produced a nation of English-speakers in Japan, we insist that &amp;quot;improved teaching methods&amp;quot; would no doubt resolve this problem, or when columnist Neal Peirce, supporting California&#039;s English-only initiative, insists that we tend to retreat from English in this country &amp;quot;while the rest of the world stampedes to English.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Forty five years after the end of World War II it is, I think, apparent to anyone that if English has not failed as THE international language, it has certainly come nowhere near fulfilling all those promises that were made for it at that time. Nor is it likely to do so in the foreseeable future, even granting continued U.S. military and economic primacy in the world -- a very unlikely possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Which means that the whole question of the international language is open again. It means that the Esperanto movement, barring the sort of deliberate repression we&#039;ve seen from time to time in Russia and China and Rumania and Germany and elsewhere, will prosper anew. Indeed, it has been doing so since the mid-seventies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And it means that, in the field of artificial languages, Esperanto may begin to see some aspiring competitors spring up. In fact, those competitors are already here. In 1972, an Englishman, Leslie Jones, published his Eurolengo, a basically Romance language based on English and Spanish. A young French teacher made the pages of the Guardian in Britain (favorably) with his Uropi. Two summers ago, several Esperanto clubs in this country received letters from a young man developing a project he called Linguos. Loglan, a product of the late fifties which made the pages of Scientific American in June, 1960, has recently been revived in two different forms. And just the other day the ELNA Central Office received a booklet, mostly in German, about a new Romance-based project called Unitario.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these projects has, at least in this country, received the sort of publicity that panicked Esperantists in the early fifties when Interlingua appeared. A recent article on Lojban (a schismatic variant of Loglan) that was picked up by the wire services and published in many newspapers around the country, appears to have been less than enthusiastic about the language; with the exception of Uropi, none of the others listed above have even been mentioned in the American press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But I think that we will hear more of them -- and others like them -- in the future. And much of what we hear, as was the case with Ido and Occidental and Interlingua, will not be why they are ideal solutions to the problem of communication between different peoples, but why they are superior to Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are they superior to Esperanto? Probably so, at least on their own terms. Ido was superior to Esperanto in its adherence to West European linguistic norms. Occidental was superior to Esperanto in its similarity to other Western languages. Interlingua was certainly superior to Esperanto as a quintessential Romance language. And if what you wanted was a watered-down form of English, Basic English certainly filled the bill better than Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Esperanto&#039;s own terms -- facility of learning, cultural and political neutrality -- none of these languages was in any way superior to Esperanto, nor even equal to it. The same can be said, I think, about recent and future projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mentioned projects fall basically into two categories, from what I have seen of them, Eurolengo, Uropi, Linguos and Unitario appear to be fundamentally what we may call Euroclones, like Occidental and Interlingua. The designers of these languages, apparently unfamiliar with the work of De Wahl, Jespersen and Gode, are making the same mistakes again -- assuming that the world will best be served, and will let itself be served, by an artificial language with nothing to recommend it but its Europeanness. They don&#039;t realize that if this is what the world wants, it is more likely to learn Spanish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan and its offshoot Lojban fall into quite a different category. Of the mentioned languages, they have been getting the most publicity. But it should be noted that no language as a priori in its origins as Loglan has ever succeeded in generating a body of speakers. To add to Loglan&#039;s difficulties, it was originally created as a means of testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (now largely discredited), and for this reason its author claims to have made it as far from ordinary linguistic patterns as he could. This may be a fine way of establishing an experiment, but for purposes of communication it&#039;s a non-starter. Loglan will most likely go the way of Barnett&#039;s Suma; a few years from now, if you want to learn about it, you will probably be able to get a book out the state library, but nowhere else will any information be available.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto remains the only truly viable artificial international language: easy to learn, relatively neutral, with a wide base of cultural and practical services for the user to call on around the world. Of all the artificial languages extant today, only Esperanto is, not the result of an attempt to create a language, but the result of an attempt to solve a problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And only Esperanto lives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds (actually not very much): Funny, I thought Don Oldenburg&#039;s article was quite favorable towards the language (and so did he), though I&#039;ll admit that the headlines used in some newspapers could be taken as satirical. Certainly the amount of print space given the language was quite significant. But a good news story reports facts rather than conveys enthusiasm, so I can understand Don not finding much enthusiasm therein.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;In Esperanto&#039;s own terms -- facility of learning, cultural and political neutrality -- none of these languages was in any way superior to Esperanto, nor even equal to it.&amp;quot; - This invites all kinds of disagreement. Facility of learning is of course an open question. Esperanto probably has better teaching materials at the moment because of 100 years to develop them; probably many of the other languages proposed would be equally easy to learn. As to cultural neutrality, Don admits early on that Esperanto derives its lexical materials from European languages. Even if Sapir-Whorf is true, it is likely that a language&#039;s word-stock has far more overt ties to culture than does grammar. Don has (in letters to us) written about the ideology held by Esperantists - a language with an ideology is the antithesis of politically neutrality. The goal of being a world language is itself inherently political; some cultures will view such a concept as a threat. Lojban&#039;s goals as a whole are basically non-political; international language aspects are a side-benefit rather than a primary goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(In one letter to Dr. Brown, Don actually criticizes us for not having an underlying ethic other than ensuring clear communication - a purely linguistic goal. Apparently Don doesn&#039;t realize that a non-linguistic ethic is inherently a cultural bias. If Esperanto has such an underlying ethic, it is false to claim that it is culturally neutral without demonstrating that the ethic is universally accepted in all cultures - an unlikely prospect.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Of all the artificial languages extant today, only Esperanto is, not the result of an attempt to create a language, but the result of an attempt to solve a problem.&amp;quot; - Don says this right after saying that Lojban was designed to test the &#039;untestable&#039; Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which was &#039;discredited&#039; primarily because it was untestable (which is obviously bad science). Testing an untestable hypothesis as important as Sapir-Whorf sounds like an attempt to solve a problem to me. So is developing a speakable language with an unambiguous syntax, as well as developing an a priori language that removes constraints on thought rather than imposing them (as all other attempts I know of tried). There are other problems in the world relevant to language besides the one Esperanto is associated with.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;And only Esperanto lives.&amp;quot; - A nice slogan, but questionable at best. Don seems to base this on the existence of an original literature. (By most other standards of &#039;living&#039; Don mentions in his article, at least Interlingua would be considered &#039;alive&#039;, if sick-a-bed.) Michael Helsem seems to be on the road to matching the entire original literary production of Ido and Volapk before Lojban has a single fluent speaker, and I know of at least two or three others that have more than contemplated literary efforts in Lojban, but either want to acquire more skill before trying or (in at least one case) are waiting for people who can read the language without translating it first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Two Essays by Andy Hilgartner ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Andy is interested in anybody&#039;s comments on these papers, which are tangential to Lojban, but are definitely tied to logic and language. You can also write to him for more information; indicate whether you have any familiarity with the theory called &#039;General Semantics&#039;. We also have copies of a couple of his papers, including one inspired by his contact with Lojban, available at the special-order price of 15c/page. Andy&#039;s address is: 254 Kensington Place, Marion OH 43302, and his phone is (614) 389-4595.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
STATEMENT OF INTENT&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I ASSERT that the patterns by which we and our ancestors for the past several thousand years have lived have now failed us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my view, these patterns center on the lived assumption that &amp;quot;I already know how things REALLY ARE&amp;quot; -- the perhaps unspoken, even unrecognized, pretense to &amp;quot;absolute certainty,&amp;quot; with a consequent unwillingness to re-examine and revise &amp;quot;what I thought I knew.&amp;quot; From that lived assumption follows a certain quarrelsomeness: If I already know &amp;quot;how things really are,&amp;quot; and you express a view which differs from mine, I will find your PROVOCATIVE BEHAVIOR a THREAT to my AUTHORITY. And if I cannot persuade, manipulate or coerce you to revise what you say so it matches what I ALREADY KNOW, I may take steps to defend my own TRUTHS by suppressing your mistaken OPINIONS -- or may even set out to suppress YOU. And the means of suppressing YOU range from verbal putdowns, to fisticuffs, to murder, war and genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Today, we know how to use cosmic forces (such as nuclear fission and fusion -- A-bombs and H-bombs) to defend our &amp;quot;absolute certainties.&amp;quot; Under these conditions, I assert, those lived assumptions which lead us to pretend to &amp;quot;absolute certainty&amp;quot; have outlived their usefulness. To persist in relying on them will, I predict, lead us into species suicide and extinction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I DECLARE the possibility of intentionally revising our lived assumptions. We can re-build these patterns we live by so that we live not from the practice of defending our presumed &amp;quot;absolute certainties&amp;quot; (or from what I call self-defending), but rather, from the practice of testing our own guesses (which I call self-correcting).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, I declare that we humans now have it within our grasp to produce a fundamental, principled, conscious, and deliberate revision of the structure of human social transacting. For example, we can build up social patterns with which to replace our non-viable social institutions: the self-defeating or self-eliminating aspects of our dealings with ourselves, and the self-defending patterns in what we now call &amp;quot;nuclear family,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;friendship,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;social group,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;corporation,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;local government,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nation-state.&amp;quot; We can come to recognize our patterned dealings with the-human-species-as-a-whole. And, having built up these newer, potentially viable patterns, we have it within our grasp to replace the older, non-viable patterns with the newer ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I PROMISE to catalyze this revision of the fundamental lived assumptions of the humans species so that, by the year 2007, we have put the new patterns into use planet-wide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And I REQUEST your direct and immediate participation in this project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
C. A. Hilgartner, MD&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Course of Development of a Theory ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The theoretical system developed by our research group demonstrably and verifiably opens up a new domain of human knowledge. As of this date, it amounts to approximately 50 person-years of innovative work. In the following four pages, let me tell you something about the background, the increasing rigor, and the further promise of this inquiry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1963, the work has gone through at least three distinct developmental stages:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A) My earliest paper on this topic (1963) presents a theory of human behavior, stated in ordinary scientific English, but based on known premises which no one else had successfully used in this way. In a paper presented before the International Conference on General Semantics in 1965, I extended this theory of human behavior into the arena of large social institutions. Also, I made logical claims for the doctrine: self-consistency, and parsimony. When I gave the paper, I found myself applauded rather than shot down.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But, while still at that conference, I came to an uncomfortable insight: I recognized that at that time, no one had yet specified the relations between logical assumptions and grammar for even one discursive language. That means that any discursive language remains in the role of &amp;quot;a language of unknown structure.&amp;quot; Further, I recognized that one cannot know a doctrine better than one knows the language in which one states the doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, my theory lacked rigor -- as long as I left it stated only in a discursive language such as English, I could not back up logical claims made for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I left that conference determined to perform a logical analysis of my doctrine, and to state it as an axiomatic system in a mathematical language of known structure. I intended to satisfy myself as to whether one could in fact back up the logical claims I had made for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B) Working with John F. Randolph, then Fayerweather Professor of Mathematics at the University of Rochester, I succeeded in doing the required logical analysis. We wrote four long papers which utilized an algebraic set theory notation -- the very paradigm of &amp;quot;a mathematical language of known structure&amp;quot; -- to put the doctrine into the form of an axiomatic system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At that point, we had something really new: a logically rigorous and empirically testable theory which comprehensively accounts for how a human deals with himself, with his non-living environment, with other humans and (in principle) with other species&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To call the theory comprehensive means that one can use it to study &amp;quot;happenings&amp;quot; on any level of interest, from that of molecular structure -- e.g. the structure of heme molecules with various possible side chains, only a few of which have a shape that will allow the ring to combine with divalent iron so as to form the active center of a hemoglobin molecule -- up to that of how the human species as a whole gains its living in the biosphere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1969, the Journal of Theoretical Biology printed three of these four papers. That, too, created something of a stir -- we received more than 1200 requests for reprints of one or more of these papers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, I had what mathematicians refer to as a &amp;quot;new toy&amp;quot; -- an empty form composed of empty set theory symbols, devised originally to account for the behaving-and-experiencing of individuals -- and I set about finding out what else it could do. I successfully applied it to a number of topics: small group phenomena; large social systems; biological theory. I even made some trespassing ventures into the physical sciences. Eventually, I began using it to focus on the topic of the foundations of logic and mathematics. And at that point (Fall 1971), I began developing another uncomfortable insight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
C) The difficulty centered about a possible contradiction between the &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; of the theory and the notation in which I expressed this &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; -- a collision between central premises. To express this difficulty, I will need to state the setting (&amp;quot;universe of discourse&amp;quot;) for the developing theory, its central tenet, and the contrary of this central tenet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# I can express the setting for this developing theory by means of a run-on phrase such as an-organism-as-a-whole-dealing-with-its-environment-at-a-date. When one defines a notational theory on a setting, one restricts discussion to the topics which fit onto that setting -- thereby preventing oneself from unknowingly getting off the subject.&lt;br /&gt;
# I can express the central tenet of the developing theory in terms of the construct of an organism making a distinction or discrimination -- expressible by a sentence such as &amp;quot;This IS NOT that!&amp;quot; In a world of ceaseless change (&amp;quot;at-a-date&amp;quot;), this sentence appears valid in general.&lt;br /&gt;
# To express the contrary of this tenet requires the construct of our organism not-making a distinction, expressible by a sentence such as &amp;quot;This IS that!&amp;quot; In a world of change, this sentence appears never valid. Indeed, by the common definition of the term mistake (Old Norse, &amp;quot;to take wrongly&amp;quot;), whenever an organism non-verbally TAKES some non-verbal this as if it WERE some other non-verbal that, he makes a mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me paraphrase these simple-sounding phrases into more pretentious logical terminology: Where, in dealing with his environment, an organism non-verbally TREATS this as if it were that, in effect he posits the identity of this and that -- he errs fundamentally; where he non-verbally distinguishes between them, he posits their non-identity -- in that respect, he does not err.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then the central postulate of the developing theory requires that, on this setting, we disallow the construct of identity (or the binary relation of identical with) in any guise of form, explicit or tacit. In the developing frame of reference, the construct of identical with has no usage except to designate situations in which somebody makes a mistake. In discrediting the construct of identity, I explicitly extend the designated realm of error to include the case in which our organism posits the identity of this with this (or of A with itself). The construct of self-identity conceals the claim that we KNOW what we have perceived and designated as A -- knowledge we do not and cannot have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To take the rejection of identity as one&#039;s central postulate does not lead to paralysis or aphasia. Instead, it strips away the pretense to delusional &amp;quot;knowledge,&amp;quot; leaving us ready to act on our assumptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this central tenet MIGHT contradict the modern logical axiom of identity, which states, &amp;quot;For all x that belong to the delimited domain D, x is identical with x.&amp;quot; Thus, in the mathematical theory of sets, one cannot dispense with the construct of identity: for, by postulate, every set qualifies as identical with itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hence, I feared, there might exist or arise a contradiction between what my theory SAYS and the notation in which it says it. At this point, I can prove that such a contradiction does arise; then, however, I could only sense it as possible and feel sick to the stomach over it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually (Christmas 1971) I concluded that, so long as I continued using the mathematical theory of sets, I left myself no way of avoiding or otherwise handling that possible contradiction. So I resolved to abandon set theory, and all other formalized or discursive languages from the Western Indo-European (WIE) tradition, and to devise my own.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To shorten an already-lengthy story, in the spring of 1972, I made a fundamental discovery. It concerns the assumptions encoded, within WIE languages such as English or set theory, in the grammatical distinction between noun and verb. Briefly, we tell the nouns from the verbs by regarding any noun as identical with itself, and regarding no verb as identical with itself. By the same token, we regard that which we designate by a noun as also self-identical (really existing, persisting, static-and-unchanging), and that which we designate by a verb as also not-self-identical (somehow transient). In the WIE pattern, one obtains a &amp;quot;complete sentence&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;well-formed formula&amp;quot; by placing at least one noun or noun-phrase next to at least one verb or verb-phrase. Thus, regardless of our intentions, regardless of whether we noticed or not, every time we form a complete sentence in a WIE discursive language or a well-formed formula from a notational language, we posit at least one static-and-unchanging &amp;quot;thing&amp;quot; which enters into more or less transient &amp;quot;relations.&amp;quot; In other words, by utilizing the grammar of the WIE languages, we ACT as if, independent of any observer, that which exists independent of any observer has a structure identical with that of the grammar of the WIE languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This discovery opened the way toward the development of the desired non-WIE formalized language. I found a way to disallow the hidden assumption I had disclosed, and by means of a small number of explicit logical steps, to derive a grammar from by chosen premises.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This too constituted a new development. Humans had never before had a DERIVED grammar to play with, only inherited, traditional ones; although the works of Edward Sapir and Benjamin Lee Whorf predict or foreshadow this development.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
About then I started collaborating with the linguist Ronald V. Harrington of the University of Rochester. On this derived grammar we developed a &amp;quot;Let&#039;s keep track of what we say&amp;quot; language, analogous to set theory but fundamentally different in structure. As one way it differs from set theory and other traditional WIE notational languages, the developing notation systematically takes into account the observer. In this notation, one finds it impossible to make a statement except from the point of view of &amp;quot;an-observer-observing-the-observed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subsequently, we extended the notation, and &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# translated the findings of the set theory calculus of human behaving-and-experiencing into the new notation, obtaining a general theory of social systems;&lt;br /&gt;
# developed a &amp;quot;numbering theory,&amp;quot; a &amp;quot;personal geometry&amp;quot;, and a &amp;quot;notational physics with physicists in it&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# provided evidence suggesting that we humans can now encompass the physical, biological and human psycho-social sciences within a single frame of reference, based on a single set of postulates. This possibility seems to me to exceed the dreams of the seekers after a unified field theory in physics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the very least, the new frame of reference gives us an unfamiliar standpoint from which to view, and re-think, human concerns. That alone warrants studying it with care.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
from Ralph Dumain &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;on Sapir-Whorf Discussions at LogFest 89, and other topics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t recall having taken detailed notes at last year&#039;s Logfest, hence I was worried at not being able to recollect the discussion sufficiently to be able to write up my own version of the Sapir-Whorf debate. I was hoping that the other participants&#039; reports in the newsletter would either suffice or help to jog my memory. Of course, these reports were published last year, so my memory now requires drastic jogging for me to be able to remember the discussion. At the moment my memory is extremely vague, so forgive factual errors on my part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can only remember that I saw the light bulb go off in at least one person&#039;s head -- Athelstan&#039;s perhaps -- meaning that I convinced one or more of you that you have to refine your conception of exactly what &amp;quot;Whorfian effects&amp;quot; you anticipate finding and how to construct an adequately defined and controlled test. I was disappointed by pc, however, who stuck fast to his ill-informed notion that metaphysical bias resides in the grammatical categories, and that one should commence a Sapir-Whorf experiment based on that assumption. I believe I stressed then, and remind you now, that meaningful experiments require that the variables be controlled. Not only that, one must know what the variables are. In comparing Lojban to any natural language, there are not only several variables involved, but the significance of those variables and their relation to hidden variables may be problematic. Suppose it turns out, for example, that languages vary greatly in a given set of surface-level grammatical features but prove not to have any significant difference at the deep-structural level. In that case, the surface differences would be deceptive and should not even be compared one-to-one, but rather the structures of the entire grammatical systems and their semantic interpretations would have to be investigated, understood, and compared. The level at which pc is thinking is but a shallow caricature of scientific method.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aside from reconstructing my own version of last year&#039;s discussion, which I could still attempt to do with the prompting of others, I have nothing further to contribute on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis at this point. It is your move now, and if someone in the group can refine the Lojbanist conception of Sapir-Whorf and Lojban&#039;s relevance to it, then I am open to further discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think you will get very far based upon your current thinking about Sapir-Whorf. Rather than worrying yourself about metaphysical bias and the ways different languages supposedly limit what can be thought, it would be better simply to focus on what a more precise language can do. As with formal logic and mathematics, or Arabic numerals as compared to Roman numerals, it is possible to extend one&#039;s thinking beyond what one can normally do otherwise. This is not exactly Sapir-Whorf, but it is Lojban&#039;s only convincing selling point. The creation of a cognitive community that demands precise expression and provides a language for it is intriguing even if it does not attract research dollars. Precision and explicitness in communication, assuming that Lojban is workable in everyday social interaction, can further the expression of and maybe even the formulation of thoughts, and remove significant interpretive ambiguities and other difficulties on the part of the hearer. I say significant, because a lot of expressions that would confound a computer are easily interpreted without mistakes by humans. You once mentioned the issue of forcing assumptions on the listener. In those cases where such &amp;quot;assumptions&amp;quot; actually imply misinterpretation of meaning or intent, they could be removed by more exact expression. It should be understood, though, that those &amp;quot;assumptions&amp;quot; are not metaphysical except when the utterance itself involves ideological issues, in which case the conceptual bias is located in the terminology used in the utterance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for finally publishing my bibliography, after stalling for a year using the lamest excuses. The intent and viewpoint of my annotated bibliography were clearly stated, hence there never was a question of misleading the reader. Both the references and my comments help to communicate to the reader just how many factors and subdisciplines are involved in dealing with the issue of the relationship between language and thought. Now that the readers know the different things that need to be considered, they can take it from there. Since I lack the time now to take care of it, it would help you to find a linguist who could find up-to-date information on advances in linguistic theory since the early 1970s that bear upon clarification of the relation of language to cognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The closest I have come to dealing with linguistics in a long time was attending a linguistics conference here in December. I queried a couple of friends about the current state of linguistic theory, who were rather cynical. They did not feel, however, that any given school of thought was being discriminated against in terms of research funding; the politics is more personal than doctrinal. The book exhibit was overwhelming; there is more going on than anyone can assimilate -- books on syntax, discourse analysis, you name it -- it&#039;s hard to get a grip on. I saw the new book that Mouton has published on interlinguistics (i.e. international planned languages like Esperanto), but it was too expensive to buy even at a discount. There were 6 books in a series on the DLT project, the machine translation system that uses Esperanto as the interlanguage. With two other books I know about, that makes 8 books in all. One of those books includes articles about other machine translation projects, including one that uses the purportedly logical Indian language Aymara as its interlanguage!&lt;br /&gt;
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A few comments on articles in your recent newsletters. The lengthy article that compares Lojban to Esperanto struck me as much to-do about nothing, as no Esperantist today believes that his language only has 16 rules. That was used at one time as a propaganda device by careless people, but I think people are more thoughtful nowadays, at least on that point. Anyway, it is necessary to understand the historical origin of the &amp;quot;16 rules.&amp;quot; They are not descriptive but prescriptive. They came from the effort to put and end to the constant attempts at reforming the grammar that people who are never satisfied with the form of Esperanto or any other planned language kept attempting to make. Adopted as part of the &amp;quot;Fundamento,&amp;quot; the 16 rules declared those easily describable, non-negotiable, mandatory features of the language. Together with a basic lexicon and a set of examples illustrating the language in use (including syntactic features not explicitly described elsewhere), the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; formed the Fundamento. Of course, Esperanto like all other languages contains thousands of syntactic rules, some of which are captured in prescriptive grammars, and many more of which the speakers are unconscious. Esperanto is learned as other languages are learned, without complete formal grammars at hand, and non-Europeans do not have to learn an Indo-European language before they learn Esperanto, any more than they would have to learn French before they could learn English. Also, Esperanto can borrow words from any language, not just European ones.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the alleged non-competition between Esperanto and Lojban. They are non-competitive if Lojbanists refrain from pushing Lojban as an international language, since the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is of no concern to Esperanto. However, the minute someone makes a claim for a new international language, several issues arise. Anyone coming forth with a new language who looks like a crackpot automatically discredits the international language movement in the eyes of the public, hence Esperantists have a stake in the matter. In the past, this means that somebody hides in their attic for 15 years creating a language, self-publishes a little book describing his new language, and announces in a press conference that he has just created the now world language. It is one thing to have a hobby, it is another to make bombastic proclamations that one&#039;s creation (whether of a language, a new monetary system, or any utopian scheme) will change the world when the lack of social realism is so obvious to all. Those kind of people are obvious cranks, and hence they compromise Esperanto whenever they claim that they have concocted a new world language, as if the adoption of an international language were some kind of magic. Hence Esperantists have justifiably reacted negatively.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, I do not claim that Lojban/Lojban is guilty of this extreme behavior. The Washington Post article did not cast Lojban in such a light. You have not yet claimed Lojban to be the future international language. But you have already resorted to dubious propaganda in order to make yourself look good and Esperanto bad.&lt;br /&gt;
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You suggest that, as Lojban is a superior engineering effort than Esperanto, it can quickly catch up even though Esperanto has a century-long head start. The creators of Ido also thought they were superior language engineers, and where are they today? There are social, political and economic reasons why no planned language, Esperanto or otherwise, has been universally adopted, and those obstacles cannot be surmounted by the most able of engineers. Here the narrow, blinkered mentality of the computer specialist is so painfully evident.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is also the supposed cultural neutrality of Lojban that makes it superior to Esperanto. But Lojban has not only neutrality, but cultural nullity. Esperanto had social roots (and still does today) in the circumstances of late 19th century Eastern Europe, and in spite of the provinciality of the Warsaw Ghetto, Zamenhof and Esperanto still managed to attract the admiration and loyalty of people throughout the world. The European &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; of Esperanto&#039;s grammar is a non-issue, as that is the part of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis that has been thoroughly discredited. The European lexicon of the Esperanto language is advantageous to technologically oriented non-Europeans, though it may ideologically repulse others. But the speech community of Esperanto is most diverse, whereas the community of Lojban is extremely uniform and narrow -- computer nerds, sci-fi buffs, people interested in logic and semantics -- not much of a basis for an international culture, and certainly not an ideologically neutral or even divers culture. Esperantists, in spite of the European bias of their language&#039;s lexicon, have risked and even sacrificed their lives in fighting racism and fascism; no Lojbanist I know would ever make such a sacrifice.&lt;br /&gt;
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What is most irritating is misusing facts in order to support misleading generalizations. I accept as truthful the statement that while sitting next to the Esperanto booth at a sci-fi convention, you did not overhear the Esperantists speaking Esperanto to one another. You dishonestly suggest by that example that Esperantists are not even accustomed to speaking the very language they are advertising to others. What hypocrisy, in light of the fact that Esperanto conversation has been going on for a century in the most diverse of circumstances, while no Loglan/ Lojban conversation in the context of any normal social interaction has ever taken place! I too have staffed an Esperanto booth upon occasion, and I too have only used English to speak to my fellow American Esperantist booth-mates, because it is basically an English-speaking environment, and I do not generally speak Esperanto in an English-speaking setting although I am perfectly capable of speaking the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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So it seems that in spite of your lip service to non-competition, you are already pitting Lojban against Esperanto in a competitive fashion, and you have also resorted to duplicity in doing so. Under those circumstances, you cannot realistically expect amicable relations between Lojban and the Esperanto movement. You know that I do not tolerate dishonest propaganda on the part of Esperantists, as evidenced by my disagreements with Don Harlow. I surely am not going to let the young upstarts of Lojban get away with any nonsense, especially when they are highly educated people who claim to be able to use their language in order to improve their thinking and their world view.&lt;br /&gt;
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I enclose a photocopy of a commentary on Loglan/Lojban from Rick Harrison&#039;s The Alembic. I pass this along for the completeness of your archives, not to torment you. Mark Tierisch&#039;s reasoning leaves something to be desired in many parts of this article. Although this article makes Esperanto look good in comparison to Loglan, its reasoning doesn&#039;t hold up, especially since Esperanto like all other languages has a lot more than 30 grammatical rules, let alone 16. The only place where I unequivocally agree with Tierisch is where he refers to Loglan as not culturally neutral but as a reflection of the &amp;quot;culture of nerds.&amp;quot; The disparaging term &amp;quot;nerd&amp;quot; is hardly necessary, but the description accurately pinpoints the subcultural basis (and hence metaphysical bias) of Lojban: science fiction and computer buffs and the like.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds on a couple of items - I&#039;m not going to discuss all of Ralph&#039;s points - I&#039;ll leave that to the community, especially the discussion on Sapir-Whorf. Suffice it to say that I think Ralph makes some different assumptions than we do about what kind of useful information can be obtained by studying Lojban in a Sapir-Whorf context. For example, he makes comments about the possibility that all languages have a common &#039;deep structure&#039;. This may be so, but even if only surface structures are directly related to culture, it would be useful to confirm it. (If the only &#039;important&#039; features about a language&#039;s structure are in its &#039;deep structure&#039; and all language &#039;deep structures&#039; are the same, then Sapir-Whorf is claiming the nonsensical idea that all cultures are the same.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We of course do not consider that the Sapir-Whorf claim of a relationship between culture and a language&#039;s grammar has been &#039;discredited&#039;, as both Ralph and Don describe it. It is precisely that claim that Lojban is designed to test. Thus, a clear separation from European language structures is vital to Lojban&#039;s goals, and Esperanto&#039;s lack in this area is a primary reason for its unsuitability for our purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think Ralph has an incorrect view of the Lojban community. You are far more diverse than he claims. A large percentage are computer-literate, and many read science fiction, but not all; in any case, even those two categories define widely varied audiences. I can see that education is inherently a potential bias, but I challenge Ralph or anyone else to state actual metaphysical biases that are common to all members of either group, or to the Lojban community.&lt;br /&gt;
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To tie back to something I said regarding Don Harlow&#039;s writings, Lojban&#039;s metaphysical diversity can be shown by a wide diversity in political beliefs among the community. Within the Lojban community are sizeable numbers of libertarians, socialists, and anarchists, extremes of both the right and left, along with more mainstream political philosophies. It is an incomplete argument to infer metaphysics from politics, but I think it is a reasonable idea.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether most Lojbanists (the majority of whom probably oppose both racism and fascism) would die for their beliefs, I cannot say. At least some of our supporters are in the Armed Forces and are committed to die for their country if necessary. Ralph impugns the honor of these and other Lojbanists with his statements.&lt;br /&gt;
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I recognize that Esperanto has had its martyrs. One would hope that martyrdom is not a vital prerequisite to achieving an international language. One &#039;problem&#039; with martyrdom, is that, while it draws together the community associated with those who have died, that same strong feeling alienates those outside of the community, and causes them to misunderstand. Some may be drawn to a movement that people are willing to die for; others are repelled by the &#039;fanaticism&#039; that they perceive in such an attitude.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, fighting racism and fascism is not what Lojban is about, although I personally would hope that with increased understanding of other cultures that is possible through learning Lojban, people would find it more difficult to persecute those who differ from them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will admit that any discussion of Esperanto and Lojban will lead to some comparisons. Our purpose in the articles was to blunt the validity of such comparisons. My statements about Esperanto do not claim that anything is &#039;wrong&#039; with it; I merely feel that Lojban is better designed for the purposes it is meant for than Esperanto is. But those purposes are different from Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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Only where we talk about the potential for Lojban as an international language is there even a basis for comparison. In this area, though, I stated that Lojban would have no significant role unless both a) Esperanto clearly fails as an international language and b) Lojban&#039;s other uses make it attractive as an international language. The international language goal is an incidental one for Lojban (though important to some among Lojbanists, including some who are also Esperantists). There is plenty of room for both languages to successfully achieve their goals.&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is that both languages can gain by cooperation rather than competition. An Esperantist is already more open to the possibilities that make Lojban interesting than a typical member of the non-Esperanto public. Similarly, a higher percentage of Lojbanists are aware of and interested in Esperanto than of the general public. If this commonalty can be harnessed, positive synergistic effects are likely.&lt;br /&gt;
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In this light, my comments about Esperanto being spoken at convention tables should be taken much more positively. I did not and do not claim that Esperantists cannot speak their language. Rather, I believe that the outside image of Esperanto as &#039;useful&#039; and &#039;important&#039; suffers when they do not and they can; Lojban will similarly suffer if Lojbanists do not use their language. My calling this situation to peoples&#039; attention, and saying that I plan to do differently, says nothing at all about the relative merits of the two languages. It was a friendly, and I thought constructive, criticism. (As an aside, Ralph is incorrect in stating that Lojban has not been used in &#039;normal&#039; social conversation. Extensive use, not yet - but surely within a year even this will have changed.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As a final note, Ralph&#039;s last reference is to an letter in The Alembic that was a diatribe against Lojban. In it, writer Tierisch (who hasn&#039;t ever been on our mailing list and is unlikely to know much about the language) compares Lojban&#039;s rules to Esperanto&#039;s 16 that we discussed last issue. Ralph mentions this, but just a few paragraphs earlier said &amp;quot;no Esperantist today believes that his language only has 16 rules. That was used at one time as a propaganda device by careless people, but I think people are more thoughtful nowadays, at least on that point.&amp;quot; Don Harlow said something similar. Apparently they are wrong. Perhaps the leaders of the Esperanto movement know the significance of the 16 rules, but the community of Esperantists as a whole may not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tierisch&#039;s letter made many incorrect claims about the language and suggested that he felt threatened in some way by Lojban&#039;s ideas (perhaps in the way Ralph suggests Esperantists feel about &#039;crackpot&#039; language inventors). We wrote a reply, but The Alembic folded without printing another issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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My own feeling is that people should not feel threatened by ideas that differ from their own. I can understand that Esperantists dislike the &#039;guilt by association&#039; that comes from association with &#039;crackpots&#039;. But this is just part of the territory. People like playing with language and new invented &#039;languages&#039; will crop up all the time. Reacting by disparaging the inventor merely offends the inventor; it doesn&#039;t stop other inventors, nor helps Esperanto&#039;s image. I think there are better approaches.&lt;br /&gt;
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My main point here is that the positive effects possible if both of our efforts worked at promoting created languages in general, as well as our specific versions, instead of knocking at each other. The potential benefits of cooperation far exceed the benefits we can gain at each other&#039;s expense.&lt;br /&gt;
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from John Hodges:&lt;br /&gt;
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I took to heart your essay in JL11 that &amp;quot;there is no competition between E. and L., because their goals are different.&amp;quot; But I&#039;m not sure your argument succeeds.&lt;br /&gt;
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The goal of E. is to be an international language, to be &amp;quot;everybody&#039;s second language&amp;quot;. Notice that this is a global ambition, and implies that any other &amp;quot;second&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;international&amp;quot; language is a competitor. They have an established claim to this role, with 100 years of experience, 10,000 books, and 2,000,000 speakers (1990 World Almanac figure). Also some martyrs, persecuted by the Nazis and other militant nationalists.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has three major goals: 1) to be a research tool for scientific study into the relationships between language, thought, and culture - we hope that studies will prove that people think more flexibly and/or more logically in Lojban than in any other language; 2) to find computer applications, e.g. in artificial intelligence, human/machine interface, and machine translation; 3) to be an international language. (We welcome anyone to use it for anything, but these are the goals we had in mind during all those years of development.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Goals 1) and 2) are less-than-global ambitions, which genuinely do not challenge Esperanto. But your essay in JL11 keeps goal 3), which does. You soften it by saying that the challenge will not be a serious one for many years, and people should have their own choice on it, anyway. But it is still there, and there may be a practical conflict between goals 3) and 1).&lt;br /&gt;
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Goal 1) is to be a research tool for learning about language, and the relationships between language and thinking. To achieve our scientific goals, we want/need to gather a body of at least several hundred fluent L. speakers from a wide variety of linguistic and cultural backgrounds, who can participate in controlled studies. No doubt to get these, we will have to recruit and teach thousands.&lt;br /&gt;
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To gather such a varied body of speakers, we could translate our teaching materials into Chinese AND Hindi AND French AND Spanish AND so forth, or we could translate them into Esperanto, a relatively simple task. If we CAN recruit Esperantists, we should try to do so. But CAN we?&lt;br /&gt;
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It is clear what the Esperanto community can do for Lojban. But what does Lojban offer the Esperanto community? Why should they host our experiment, given the conflict implied by our goal 3)?&lt;br /&gt;
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One line of thought I have explored in recent days (many of my lines of thought are half-baked - I am asking for feedback). Perhaps we should explicitly make goal 3) conditional on prior success in goals 1) and/or 2), and commit to cooperation with the Esperanto community should the event arise.&lt;br /&gt;
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We begin by describing Lojban as &amp;quot;an experimental human language&amp;quot;. (I think this is true, anyway. I expect that our first five years of use will show us changes we want to make, when our 5-year baseline expires.) We point out that carrying a Lojban textbook written in Esperanto book in E. book services will hardly threaten the spread of E.; it is just one more cultural opportunity that opens up if you learn E.&lt;br /&gt;
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If the L. experiments to test Sapir-Whorf show that, as we hope, people think more flexibly and/or more logically in Lojban than in any other language, OR IF future computers still find transcribing/parsing/translating Esperanto to be beyond them, while Lojban is translated with ease, THEN AND ONLY THEN will the question arise of whether to trade in Esperanto for a newer model. By hosting our experiment, the E. movement will have stuffed the ranks of L-speakers with Esperantists, assuring them the loudest possible voice in the future development of Lojban Mark II.&lt;br /&gt;
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Carrying the thought further... How much good would such a voice do them? English speakers have suggested deriving the gismu from English alone; this is still a rotten idea if the favored language is Esperanto. Lojbanized gismu do not resemble their source words closely enough. Even if pure source words are used for gismu, they float in a sea of cmavo that makes the result incomprehensible to speakers of the source language. Lojban is just too radically different. But current Lojban has rules of spelling and word-formation designed so that today&#039;s computers, with PRIMITIVE abilities at pattern-recognition, could transcribe and parse spoken Lojban correctly. The abilities of future computers may allow us to relax those rules. (neural nets, optoelctronics, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
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For the rationale above to work, Lojban Mark II would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. SO- hypothetical question, for 10 to 20 years hence - if we wished to make a language with predicate grammar, and accommodating the limits of computers of the time. and as compatible as possible with Esperanto, how close could we come? Could, e.g., the prefixes and suffixes of Esperanto substantially replace to cmavo? Could all brivla have only one or two places, mimicking conventional parts of speech, with the remaining places added using lexeme BAI? Could we seriously imagine making a Lojban Mark II that was a superset of Esperanto, so that existing E. speakers and books would remain compatible? Or perhaps one that was designed to make conversion from Esperanto as easy as possible?&lt;br /&gt;
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I am out of my depth here. But if we are to seriously recruit among Esperantists, we may have to commit in advance to something like this, provided the experiments show Lojban Mark II to be a worthwhile effort. Then again, perhaps these thoughts are way off base, and the future of Lojban does not lie in recruiting Esperantists. Are we, ultimately, competitors after all?&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds - John stated the &#039;flaw&#039; in my competition argument better than anyone else, but I still stand by what I said above, that both languages can co-exist without competition between them. There are some hidden assumptions behind a deduced &#039;unavoidable&#039; competition based on John&#039;s logic.&lt;br /&gt;
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The most important flawed assumption is natural for most Americans: that for one language to be &#039;everyone&#039;s second language&#039;, there can be no other international language. For monolingual Americans, learning a second language seems onerous enough - why would anyone want to learn two &#039;international languages&#039;?&lt;br /&gt;
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Simple. One learns different languages for different purposes. Languages are tools for communication; you use the best tool available for the communications job at hand. By this argument, of course, Don Harlow is right in using English to talk to another English speaker, and Esperanto when he wants to talk to someone who doesn&#039;t know English as well as they know Esperanto. (Which I agree with in general, making exceptions for the times when the language is on display for outsiders, or when a particular educational purpose would be served.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Especially if Lojban proves Sapir-Whorf true to any extent at all, someone learning Lojban will think differently (and perhaps &#039;better&#039; by some standard) than if they know only Esperanto or their native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no problem recruiting Esperantists. They have the same range of interests as any other group of similar size. In fact, Esperantists are a fertile recruiting ground because they are already interested in language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some Esperantists will find the design goals of Lojban, or specific design features, worthy enough for them to further study the language. Then, when they know more, they can decide to study both languages or to just study one. John&#039;s argument is flawed here; he assumes that, because the goal for Esperanto is to become &amp;quot;everyone&#039;s second language&amp;quot;, every Esperantist holds that goal as a nirvana that they cannot turn away from.&lt;br /&gt;
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But Esperanto is not likely to achieve its purpose within our lifetimes. So many Esperantists will be interested in the language that offers them more personal gratification within their lifetime. Some will find this in Lojban; possibly others in some other language. Many, perhaps even most, will concentrate on Esperanto, or will work with Esperanto and Lojban. For these, Esperanto provides the immediate satisfaction of a large speaker population with which to communicate, while Lojban presents a peculiar intellectual challenge that may at some later time prove more rewarding. There is no competition implicit in our existence for such people.&lt;br /&gt;
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An Esperantist who denies the value of learning other languages is as close-minded as the nationalists that oppose Esperanto. Some will be this way, and that is their right. But far more valuable to both Esperanto and Lojban would be cooperation between the two groups. Undoubtedly, Lojban will attract a lot of people that would not be interested in Esperanto (as Ralph says, computer people and other scientists, and science fiction readers, are a natural audience for Lojban). Some of these may not find Lojban to their liking (too different, too small a speaker base, etc.), and may proceed onward to discover Esperanto. The reverse will be true among Esperanto recruits. By having information on both languages available, people can make an informed choice as to which language serves their interests.&lt;br /&gt;
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A side benefit results. A cooperative, open, attitude is presented to the public. This attitude ameliorates the impression that international linguists are fanatical idealists, an impression that turns off a lot of people. Our relaxed attitude towards international language success has not only reduced Lojban&#039;s &#039;threat&#039; to Esperanto, it has calmed the portion of the Lojban community that opposes the idealistic &#039;world language&#039; effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, one member of our original class here in the DC-area, Paul Francis O&#039;Sullivan, is a lifetime member of the local Esperanto chapter. He finds no conflict in working with both languages and is translating the brochure into Esperanto for us. (Reviewers are welcome to volunteer.) Jamie Bechtel, our first Lojban &#039;creative writer&#039;, is also an Esperantist, as is poet Michael Helsem. Numerous others, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are gaining cooperation from Esperantists. Bruce Arne Sherwood, a &#039;big name&#039; in Esperanto, taught courses and wrote articles comparing Loglan and Esperanto in the early 1980&#039;s, and carried on a lengthy correspondence with pc to ensure that the facts were right. No animosity or competition was evidenced. Mike Urban, an Esperantist known for developing MacIntosh Hypercard teaching software for Esperanto (and one of the Worldcon table representatives), has advised us on some technical points of Esperanto, as well as on teaching software. Etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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We cannot test Sapir-Whorf based on teaching the language through Esperanto. If all of the target population spoke Esperanto as well as Lojban, there would be no way to separate effects of the two languages from each other. We must use monolingual speakers who learn Lojban as their first non-native language, or better, bilinguals raised speaking Lojban and their native language from birth. In this way, Sapir-Whorf effects would be least hidden by uncontrolled variables (a problem mentioned by Ralph that we are indeed concerned with).&lt;br /&gt;
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As for Lojban Mark II, I doubt if it will happen. If there are changes after 5 years, they will be minor, evolutionary ones. That is why we are forcing the 5-year period, to ensure that inertia keeps the language stable.&lt;br /&gt;
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People in the Loglan community are tired of learning a changing target. Regardless of how flawed Dr. Brown&#039;s versions of Loglan are, the Lojban development would never have been conceived of, much less completed, if not for Brown&#039;s intellectual property claims that forced us to work from outside rather than within the Institute.&lt;br /&gt;
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If Lojban does evolve in new ways, the speakers will be the ones who decide, as John suggests. If the speakers are Esperantists, some of the underlying concepts of Esperanto will find their way into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, as John points out, Lojban and any natural language are too different. Lojban is also too different from Esperanto to offer significant pattern matching. A predicate language is too unlike an Indo-European grammar, or anything that can even be described like an Indo-European grammar. If you rule out changing all the words once again (a relearning burden that would be unacceptably high - as anyone who has used LogFlash with both Institute Loglan and Lojban words can testify), there simply isn&#039;t that much that is worth changing. (It is also possible that to make such changes would destroy whatever there is about Lojban that makes it worth &#039;trading in&#039; for.&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Lojban will stand on its own, and will gain support from Esperantists on its own merits, or not at all. As long as I have influence, I will resist attempts to make there be an &#039;exclusive or&#039; choice between Lojban and Esperanto among potential speakers. If we do this, there will be no competition. (Hmmm! Could increased competitiveness be a fallout of linguistic confusion between &#039;inclusive or&#039; and &#039;exclusive or&#039;? A Sapir-Whorf effect that we might find negated among Lojbanists!)&lt;br /&gt;
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Let&#039;s turn to one more letter on Esperanto (and a few other subjects), from Paul Doudna. Bob&#039;s responses to some of them are embedded:&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussions of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis have been interesting. However, I&#039;m inclined to think that testing this hypothesis may be like testing the Shroud of Turin. That is, no matter how it is tested and no matter what the results are, people will continue to believe as they did before.&lt;br /&gt;
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I am sending you an article on E-Prime. If you haven&#039;t seen this already, I think you will find it interesting. The article is written in E-Prime, which is almost the same as English. The author obviously believes that language does have a significant effect on our thinking.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bob: E-Prime is a variation on English devised by General Semanticists that avoids using the verb &#039;to be&#039; in all its forms. Andy Hilgartner&#039;s articles above are written in his version of E-Prime, and Andy, also, apparently believes that language has a significant effect on thinking. Score one against Ralph&#039;s and Don&#039;s claim that S-W has been totally discredited.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Concerning the Lojban logo, I notice that most of the suggestions involve some kind of visual ambiguity. Considering that one of the primary claims of Lojban is its freedom from ambiguity and also the fact that some critics claim that Lojban is actually more ambiguous than English, the use of an ambiguous design for a logo would be quite ironic.&lt;br /&gt;
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I showed the articles comparing Esperanto and Lojban to a friend of mine who is an Esperantist. His reactions were very negative. I must agree with him that many of the points of comparison were not valid. The articles themselves contained some disclaimers, implying that the comparison should not be taken too seriously. In particular, the attempt to compare &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot; I don&#039;t think really works. The meaning of the word &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot; is used quite differently in [discussing] the two languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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Here are two suggestions for a more meaningful comparison:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Translate some sample sentences in English (chosen equally by Lojbanists and Esperantists) into both languages. Include relevant comments on any peculiar features of the translations.&lt;br /&gt;
# Compare the underlying assumptions behind the two languages. Zamenhof and Brown had in mind quite different concepts of what constituted an ideal language. These concepts of course determined the way the resulting language should be constructed. This type of comparison might be very difficult since in many cases these underlying assumptions are not made explicit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I heard a talk on Esperanto about a year ago, it sounded almost like the speaker was talking about Loglan/Lojban. There is no ambiguity in Esperanto, it was claimed. (But the two languages mean something different by &amp;quot;ambiguity&amp;quot;.) It was further claimed that Esperanto is culturally neutral. (Again, the meaning of &amp;quot;cultural neutrality&amp;quot; is not quite the same in both languages.) Esperanto is completely &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot;. (Meaning that the grammar is free of irregularities typical of most languages, not that it is based on a system of logic as Lojban attempts to do.) And of course the spelling is completely phonetic. (Both languages are alike in this respect, although Esperanto doesn&#039;t have spoken punctuation.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: A good response and some good suggestions. Any volunteers among the Esperantists to devise some sentences to translate and/or some lists of assumptions and ideals. We may need Paul to serve as a moderator to point out where our definitions don&#039;t jibe.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Have the 600 rules of Lojban been published? I suspect that no matter how many rules are stated explicitly, that there will be a potentially unlimited number of implicit semantic rules that are used in any language to actually understand what any given sentence means.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: On the first: Yes, this issue! Though the number is now closer to 550, depending on how you count. Every word has a &#039;rule&#039; defining its semantic meaning. If you count those as rules, than a language with fewer words has fewer rules. However, you can turn this around. The universe of discourse for &#039;all of language&#039; is approximately the same for all languages. A language that divides up semantic space into fewer words tends to end up with words being used for multiple meanings. Lojban has one advantage in that Lojbanists generally try to avoid unnecessary figurative extensions of meaning and to explicitly mark those extension where accurate interpretation is important.]&lt;br /&gt;
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The article on negation was enlightening, as far as I could follow it. I&#039;m not familiar enough with Lojban grammar to fully appreciate its significance for Lojban. I would have two observations:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# I&#039;m not sure how this will work in Lojban, but in English, we typically form negatives which theoretically represent contradictory statements or complement classes. In practice, in spite of the language representation, we tend to think in terms of contrary stereotypes. To treat these contrary stereotypes as if they were jointly exhaustive concepts (as the language form would seem to indicate) can lead to illogical conclusions. For example, &amp;quot;Un-American&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;unchristian&amp;quot;, to give two extreme examples.&lt;br /&gt;
# It is pointed out, quite correctly, that negation in English is very complex in practice. It is only roughly analogous to the vastly simplified negation of formal logic. Basically, the same conclusion applies to the logical connectives AND, OR, and IF. That is, these words (along with NOT) in the context of formal logic do not mean what their counterparts mean in English. It will be interesting to see if those who use Lojban will adhere to the theoretical meanings of such words (thus resulting in a logical form of thinking far beyond what is normally found among human beings), or will the meanings of these words merely shift, losing their precise logical definition (in terms of truth tables) and evolving to something much closer to English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: On the first, we ended up adding two cmavo to lexeme NAhE, the contrary negation lexeme. In addition to na&#039;e, which refers to the generalized scalar contrary, we&#039;ve added no&#039;e as a scalar &#039;middle&#039; or neutral, and to&#039;e as a polar opposite. Thus Lojban allows explicit distinctions in &amp;quot;un-&amp;quot; that are not possible for English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the second, Jim Brown and the Loglan community in general have looked at AND, OR, and IF, much more thoroughly than they had NOT. In addition, with the possible exception of IF, these do not have the complex questions of &#039;scope&#039; that negation has. We&#039;re fairly confident that no problems remain here. When I write the textbook on those parts of the language, we&#039;ll be more certain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There should not be much backsliding to English versions of the logical connectives if we&#039;ve properly taught them, because the various non-logical English versions of these connectives are also built into Lojban. For example, we have causal connectives for causal IF, a wide variety of ANDs, and a flexible restatement of OR in terms of set membership. The availability of the English non-logical combining forms should keep the pure logical connectives &#039;pure&#039;. We&#039;ll certainly find out. (Note that most of the English-like forms are more highly marked in Lojban than the logical connectives, so there will be some caution necessary in this area.)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
In the process of trying to sort out and file the material I have accumulated over the years about Loglan/Lojban, I notice that in many cases material (such as the article on Lojban Negation) does not contain the date and does not contain the name of the author. I realize that in the past I have written some things myself that are not properly identified. However, I think it would be useful if all material that is distributed was identified with a date and name.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Good idea, and we&#039;ll try to do better. We&#039;ve put out JL with enclosures on the assumption that most people who save the material put it in notebooks as they get it, and hence have stuff associated together in a &#039;useful&#039; order, which is usually not by date. For next issue, I&#039;ll try to come up with a list of our publications of the past, which ones are worth keeping (other than for historical interest), and explain how Nora and I have set up notebooks to keep the &#039;useful&#039; information at hand. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. publications often do not bear an author&#039;s name if we want the article to be seen as a product of the organization rather than of an individual. In such a case, we&#039;ll try to make sure the organization name is on it.] &lt;br /&gt;
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Another thing that I think would be useful would be a short glossary of often used Lojban terms, to be updated at frequent intervals. This might be published as a separate sheet to be kept as reference, or if short enough, included on the back page of each newsletter. There are certain terms used frequently which I don&#039;t always remember (and new readers of the newsletter will not know at all). For example, I am trying to find the difference in meaning between the definitions of bridi and selbri. They are defined somewhere, I&#039;m sure, but I can&#039;t locate the definitions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: I explained selbri above, but in case you missed it, selbri corresponds to the logic term &#039;predicate&#039;, while bridi (in the gismu list) corresponds to the term &#039;predication&#039;. In other words, the bridi is the whole sentence, while the selbri is the thing in the middle that determines the relationship among the sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We used to have a glossary in every issue, up to around JL4 or JL5, but it got too big. The Overview was written to be a textual glossary for newcomers, figuring that old-timers were tired of seeing (and paying for) the definitions for words they already knew. The Overview, of course, is getting old, and has kunbri for what is now selbri and a couple of other minor errors. But the errors have thus far been seen as too minor to justify a revision sent to everybody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The textbook will contain a glossary of both Lojban words of this sort and English linguistic terms that are used a lot in describing the language. In addition, Lojbanist Nancy Thalblum has started putting a glossary together as she studies the language. We may publish this separately, or use it as the basis for the textbook glossary. People are encouraged to write in with lists of words they would like to see defined in a glossary (other than the obvious Lojban ones).]&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
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First this issue is a little ditty written by Athelstan. It&#039;s cute, if not profound. Sing it to the tune of &#039;Oscar Meyer&#039; jingle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    My Lojban has a first name                             &lt;br /&gt;
       it&#039;s &#039;logical&#039;, you see                             &lt;br /&gt;
    My Lojban has a second name                            &lt;br /&gt;
       the &#039;language&#039; that&#039;s for me                        &lt;br /&gt;
    I like to use it ev&#039;ry day                             &lt;br /&gt;
       and if you ask me why, I&#039;ll say                     &lt;br /&gt;
    la lojban. cu se nelci mi                              &lt;br /&gt;
       gi&#039;e ve tavla do fo mi                              &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last line is pronounced:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
/lah,LOHZH,bahn. shoo,seh NEHL,shee,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,heh veh,TAH,vlah doh,foh,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and means, roughly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Lojban is liked by me, &lt;br /&gt;
and is spoken to you by me.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also on a light note, John Cowan made his first Lojban effort a real humdinger. Here&#039;s his introduction and the text. See the translation section if you can&#039;t figure it out. (If you haven&#039;t tried a translation before, you may want to try John&#039;s journal entries, which follow this monstrosity, first.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this month&#039;s writings, we&#039;ve tried to use the added writing conventions to make the text easier to read. Hope it helps. Hope we are reasonably consistent in our usage of the conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And (ta-dah!) my first piece of Lojban. I&#039;m using a format similar to JL10&#039;s, so you can see what I said, what I meant to say, and what I was trying to say. The original, by the way, is the 1984 winner of the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest, an international bad-writing contest where the contestants submitted the opening paragraph from &amp;quot;the worst of all possible novels&amp;quot;. I found it in a book called &amp;quot;It Was A Dark And Stormy Night&amp;quot;, a collection of entries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Herewith the Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le nimcitno goi ko&#039;a po&#039;u la ka,as. noi ko&#039;a melbi bai jorne le sramudri noi ke&#039;a kusru zi&#039;e po le dabli&#039;e goi ko&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu ku secau le kecti .i le&#039;i prenu poi ke&#039;a se saptutklu zi&#039;e po ko&#039;e ca zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a jamfu noi ke&#039;a cisyselpli .ibabo le voksa noi ke&#039;a cladu je klina zi&#039;e po&#039;e la nebnauzag. noi ke&#039;a te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai le do fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi do lifri lenu mi setca le xarci le do se citka poi ko&#039;a romoi ko&#039;u li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As mentioned earlier, John Cowan has started writing a Lojban journal. Here are the first 3 days of his journal entries. Only minor corrections were needed. John&#039;s pleasant rhyme (you&#039;ll see), used an incorrect word. We corrected the word, calling the result a near-rhyme.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most new Lojbanists should be able to understand this text using only the gismu list, rafsi list and cmavo list, and making literal translations and educated guesses as to how the result goes together. Try it and see:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la lunas. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mutce cmalu jukni cu cpare le djacu tubnu .i carvi ja&#039;e le nu ko&#039;a farlu .i le solri cu febri&#039;a le carvi .i le jukni cu rapli cpare&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la mars. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mi tixnu po&#039;u la airin. verba .i ko&#039;a nanca li ci .i ko&#039;a kelci je krixa .i je ko&#039;a sipna .i ko&#039;a bacru fi la gliban. .i mi bacru fi la gliban. .e la lojban. .i mi na&#039;e drani bacru fi la lojban. .i mi zutse .i je mi viska le nu le mi tixnu cu kelci .i glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi jdice le nu mi te cmene le&#039;i djedi le&#039;i plini&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o cusku fa la viktorias &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi ga&#039;i ba&#039;e na&#039;e se zdile li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i di&#039;u xajmi mi .i zo ga&#039;i jibni rimni zo ba&#039;e la lojban. .i zo na&#039;e go&#039;i .i le nu le&#039;i rimni cu porsi cu xajmi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la saturn. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cusku fa la daisets. suzukis. &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi po la zen. skicu lo kilycna fo lo na&#039;e kilycna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi tirna lo verba zgike .i ri mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi pu tcidu lo cukta be le nu ke pamoi penmi le na&#039;e terdi prenu po&#039;u la tranx. bei la alan. din. fostr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next we have a letter and another poem by Michael Helsem, who has been extremely prolific in the last few months (we are pleasantly drowning in his Lojban poetry). Due to our tight schedule, we&#039;ve made some changes to what he wrote that we haven&#039;t been able to run by him, so hopefully he&#039;ll forgive us if we messed something up. Michael does follow the excellent practice of sending us fairly literal English translations of everything he writes so we can (usually) figure out his intent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s text is very complex, indeed probably too complex either for him or for a typical reader; it appears that Michael was trying to paraphrase his natural English idiom, throwing in plenty of attitudinals and discursives. However, the result is worth studying; the letter exemplifies several more esoteric features of Lojban grammar as well as the problems in translating idiom. At least look up the words and make your best guess what he&#039;s trying to say. Then check the translation to see what he intended.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A far better practice in writing your own letters, by the way, is to figure out what you want to say, then express it in short Lojban sentences as John Cowan did in his journal. You will find after writing only a few pages that you will develop a more Lojbanic idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael actually made very few grammatical errors. There are, however, some &#039;wrong words&#039;, some unfortunate Americanisms that translate poorly when he tries to do them literally, and some equivalents to English pronouns, that in Lojban are frustratingly vague or misleading. All in all, though, this is an excellent effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I editorially embedded the original of the poem included in the letter within the non-grammatical quotes &amp;quot;lo&#039;u ... le&#039;u&amp;quot;; the poem had one &#039;grammatical error&#039; that could not be corrected without destroying the sense of his introductory comments regardin the poem.&lt;br /&gt;
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di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco le mi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u .i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e .i ta&#039;onai pu ra ku mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci po&#039;u se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i .i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) .i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a .iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu .i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu .i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i .ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io .i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u) .i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i [&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Bob promised to try writing some of his &#039;natural&#039; Lojban (almost everything else he&#039;s written in the language has been constrained to a limited vocabulary, such as the short readings in the draft textbook lessons). The issue is so delayed that he promised to keep it short this time (relatively). Remember. No translation is provided. You can write and ask specific questions if you make the attempt and get lost. I can&#039;t promise perfection at this stuff yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.uo .uonai .i dukti .i na go&#039;i .i mi ciksi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o zu&#039;u zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uo&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi smuni lenu mulno cilmo ku&#039;o cu mapti leza&#039;i da lojbo gerna .e leza&#039;i de lojbo gismu .i so&#039;u cilre girzu zu&#039;o tadni cu mulno .i so&#039;u drata ke cilre girzu caze&#039;a penmi joi tadni vijevajevuku .i cabi&#039;iba le karni ke cabna selci po&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se pagbu loi lojbo selsku .i ri krasi selci&#039;a bau la lojban. (to mi bau la gliban. na pensi ja ciska [sei .ue .o&#039;a lo pluja logji selsku po&#039;u dei cu frili se&#039;u] loi mulno selpei pu lenu mi samci&#039;a dei pe ve&#039;a toi) .i la maiky&#039;elsym. cu te pemci bau la lojban gi&#039;e ca mansa ke gerna drani .i la djan. kau,n. cu dikni skuci&#039;a bau la lojban vi levo&#039;a seirkarni .i .ua la lojbangirz. cu se ganzu fo loi lojbo .i ri mutce snada ke mulno selzu&#039;e mi&#039;o pe ve&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o zu&#039;unai zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uo&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .ebazibo zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.nai&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu mapti le lojbo pu&#039;u farvi .i ri ba&#039;e na mulno .i .ei .uonai le ctucku vau .i mi dunku ri ki&#039;u lenu mi nalbanzu mulri&#039;a .i mi xaksu loi dukse temci le zu&#039;o ganzu joi si&#039;orcanja joi flagau joi dintro .ianai .au .i le vlacku gunka cu balvi .i .ei la lojbangirz. ba banro zukte .i .ei loi zmadu be loi ca lobypre ba cilre .a&#039;o le bangu .i .ei piro lei cempre ba se ganzu fo lenu pejri&#039;a le cecmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o .einai mi zukte pamei .i .ei roko zukte .i ko cilre la lojban. .i ko dunda piro lei jdini poi te marde pagbu be le selfai poi dinselxaksu .i .uuse&#039;i loi nalbanzu jdini cu seldu&#039;u mi gi&#039;e rinka lenu mi gunka dirsno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;oku&#039;i .ia ba&#039;a le tcini cu xagmaubi&#039;o .i piso&#039;ado ba sidju .i so&#039;ida ba cilre je pilno la lojban. .i .ai .au .eicai ko morji je tinbe le selsku cnimu&#039;i be la lojbangirz. be&#039;o po&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ganai ko go&#039;i gi la lojban. snada gi&#039;e bangu do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ki&#039;emi&#039;e la lojbab. po&#039;u la bab. leceval,ier.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Translations ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our first translation is John Cowan&#039;s first paragraph, which we&#039;ll repeat so you have it handy:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le nimcitno goi ko&#039;a po&#039;u la ka,as. noi ko&#039;a melbi bai jorne le sramudri noi ke&#039;a kusru zi&#039;e po le dabli&#039;e goi ko&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu ku secau le kecti .i lei prenu poi ke&#039;a se saptutklu zi&#039;e po ko&#039;e ca zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a jamfu noi ke&#039;a cisyselpli .ibabo le voksa noi ke&#039;a cladu je klina zi&#039;e po&#039;e la nebnauzag. noi ke&#039;a te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai le do fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi do lifri lenu mi setca le xarci le do se citka poi ke&#039;a romoi ko&#039;u li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pidgin translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Totally new subject. The woman-youth known-as she1 who-is-identically the-one-called Kaa who-incidentally-is beautiful, forcedly is-joined-to the upright-wood such-that it is cruel and such that it is specific-to the fight-leader known-as he2 who-is-identically the-one-called Animal without the mercy. The-mass-of persons such-that they are-simple-tool-culture-people which-are-specific-to him2 simultaneously make a heap-of some wood at her1 feet such-that they are-sexually-used. And-then the voice such-that it is-loud and is-clear and is inalienably-possessed-by the-one-called Beautiful-male-buttocks who-incidentally-is a poem-maker and a superlative-man angrily-utters, quote, if your fire-causer causes some fire with-result the woman-youth is-something-cooked then you experience that I insert the weapon into your something-eaten such-that it is last, unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English original:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The lovely woman-child Kaa was mercilessly chained to the cruel post of the warrior-chief Beast, with his barbarian tribe now stacking wood at her nubile feet, when the strong clear voice of the poetic and heroic Handsomas roared, &amp;quot;Flick your Bic, crisp that chick, and you&#039;ll feel my steel through your last meal.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John&#039;s notes on the translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There doesn&#039;t seem to be any way to say &amp;quot;mercy&amp;quot; in Lojban. I substituted &amp;quot;pity&amp;quot;, which is adequate in the negative, because &amp;quot;pitiless&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;merciless&amp;quot;, but pity and mercy are quite distinct in the positive. [Bob: &amp;quot;mercy&amp;quot; can be derived as a scalar negative either from the gismu for &amp;quot;cruel&amp;quot; or for &amp;quot;severe&amp;quot;. Since he&#039;s already used &amp;quot;kusru&amp;quot; in the text, &amp;quot;naljursa&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;to&#039;e jursa&amp;quot; seem like better choices.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I attempted to avoid the excessive use (to my way of thinking) of tanru in much of the Lojban I&#039;ve seen to date, in favor of relative clauses. On the other hand, I&#039;m far from sure that I have their syntax correct. [Bob: He was close, omitting only the zi&#039;e connectives for multiple relative clauses and phrases attached to the same sumti.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of &amp;quot;la nebnauzag.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;Handsomas&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The clumsiness of &amp;quot;fagryrinka rinka lei fagri&amp;quot; is a deliberate attempt to translate &amp;quot;Flick your Bic&amp;quot; into something that sounds equally idiotic. Unfortunately Handsomas loses his terseness (strong, silent male type) in Lojban, at least in my Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob adds: The Bulwar-Lytton competition is actually a contest for the worst first-line of a novel. John&#039;s translation breaks it up into multiple sentences, but it is possible to combine all the separate Lojban pieces into a single sentence. (To make elidable terminators easier to track, I&#039;m removing John&#039;s excess relative clauses; I&#039;m also making a couple of other minor changes that I think are improvements):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o ba lenu le melbi nimcitno po&#039;u la ka,as. goi ko&#039;a bai jorne binxo le kusru sramudri po le dabli&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu goi ko&#039;e secau loka naljursa kei kei ca lenu lei se saptutklu po ko&#039;e cu zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a cisyselpli jamfu kei le cladu je klina voksa be la nebnauzag. noi te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai ledo fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi ko lifri leli&#039;i mi setca le xarci ledo se citka poi seri&#039;a romoi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The translation is fairly close to John&#039;s:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Totally new subject. After the beautiful woman-youth who-is-identically the-one-called Kaa (known-as she1) forcedly joined-becomes-to the cruel upright-wood which-is-specific-to the fight-leader who-is-identically the-one-called Animal (known-as he2) without mercy, and while the-mass-of simple-tool-culture-people which-are-specific-to him2 make a heap-of wood at her1 sexually-used feet, the loud and clear voice of the-one-called Beautiful-male-buttocks who-incidentally-is a poet and a superlative-man angrily-utters, &amp;quot;if your fire-causer causes some fire with-result of the woman-youth cooked-thing then (imperative) experience the experience of my inserting the weapon into your something-eaten which is the causedly-therefore last&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If that was too hard, you may or may not benefit from the Lojban parser output for this sample. In this case, the parser sufficiently matches the current grammar that I had to make no changes to parse the text. (The parser version I used was written last October, showing how stable the core grammar has been for the last year or so.) The capitalized words are all the elidable terminators that were &#039;left out&#039;, each identified by lexeme. The parentheses correspond to multi-part rules in the machine grammar, as explained in the text material accompanying the machine grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
({ni&#039;o ni&#039;o} {&amp;lt;[({ba &amp;lt;le [nu ({&amp;lt;le [melbi nimcitno] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po&#039;u [la ka,as. (goi {ko&#039;a} GEhU)] GEhU&amp;gt;} {bai &amp;lt;[jorne binxo] [({&amp;lt;le [kusru sramudri] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po [(le dabli&#039;e KU) (po&#039;u {la danlu KU &amp;lt;goi [ko&#039;e] GEhU&amp;gt;} GEhU)] GEhU&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;se cau&amp;gt; &amp;lt;lo [ka (naljursa VAU) kei] KU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}) kei] KU&amp;gt;} {ca &amp;lt;le [nu ({&amp;lt;lei [se saptutklu] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po ko&#039;e GEhU&amp;gt;} cu {zbasu &amp;lt;[lo (derxi {be &amp;lt;loi mudri KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;bei [le (ko&#039;a {cisyselpli jamfu}) KU]&amp;gt; BEhO}) KU] VAU&amp;gt;}) kei] KU&amp;gt;}) (le {&amp;lt;cladu je klina&amp;gt; &amp;lt;voksa [be ({la nebnauzag.} {noi &amp;lt;[(te pemci) je tajnau] VAU&amp;gt; KUhO}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU)] cu [fegcru ({lu &amp;lt;[(ga nai) ({le &amp;lt;do fagryrinka&amp;gt; KU} cu {rinka &amp;lt;[(lei fagri KU) (ja&#039;e {le &amp;lt;nimcitno [se jukpa]&amp;gt; KU})] VAU&amp;gt;}) gi (ko CU {lifri &amp;lt;[le (li&#039;i {mi CU &amp;lt;setca [({le xarci KU} {&amp;lt;le [do (se citka)] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;poi [({se ri&#039;a} {ro moi}) VAU] KUhO&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;} KEI) KU] VAU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt; li&#039;u} VAU)]&amp;gt; FAhO})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, we have John Cowan&#039;s journal entries. John didn&#039;t supply a translation, and I don&#039;t know Suzuki&#039;s non-Lojbanized first name, but otherwise his writing is quite straightforward. Unlike Michael&#039;s writing, and unlike John&#039;s first Lojban work above, John is choosing to write in simple, methodical sentences. The result is that he makes few and minor errors. This is the type of sentence I think most anyone can write with ease after the first few draft textbook lessons or some disciplined sentence building using the machine grammar as described in the introduction to that document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la lunas. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mutce cmalu jukni cu cpare le djacu tubnu .i carvi ja&#039;e le nu ko&#039;a farlu .i le solri cu febri&#039;a le carvi .i le jukni cu rapli cpare&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of the Moon.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The much-small-spider climbs-on-surface the water-tube (John has proposed a place structure change matching this usage). Rain, with result therefore of it1 falling. The sun boil-causes the rain. The spider repeatedly-climbs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This is a translation of a familiar nursery rhyme. John had used &amp;quot;febvi&amp;quot; alone in the next-to-last sentence, with a strange place structure result. In the last sentence, &amp;quot;krefu&amp;quot; might be preferable to &amp;quot;rapli&amp;quot;, being a more literal translation, but given the way nursery rhymes are so often repeated, &amp;quot;rapli&amp;quot; may be a more correct term. John&#039;s use of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is non-standard, since he never assigns it. In some usages, it isn&#039;t necessary, since there is only one possible referent. This isn&#039;t the case here, although it is in the following.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la mars. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mi tixnu po&#039;u la airin. verba .i ko&#039;a nanca li ci .i ko&#039;a kelci je krixa .i je ko&#039;a sipna .i ko&#039;a bacru fi la gliban. .i mi bacru fi la gliban. .e la lojban. .i mi na&#039;e drani bacru fi la lojban. .i mi zutse .i je mi viska le nu le mi tixnu cu kelci .i glare &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi jdice le nu mi te cmene le&#039;i djedi le&#039;i plini &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o cusku fa la viktorias &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi ga&#039;i ba&#039;e na&#039;e se zdile li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i di&#039;u xajmi mi .i zo ga&#039;i jibni rimni zo ba&#039;e la lojban. .i zo na&#039;e go&#039;i .i le nu le&#039;i rimni cu porsi cu xajmi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of Mars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My daughter, the one named Irene, is a child. She1 is measured in years the number 3. She1 plays-and-cries. And she1 sleeps. She1 utters in English. I utter in English and in Lojban. I non-correctly utter in Lojban. I sit. And I see my daughter playing. Warm! (observative)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I decide I will name the set of days, the set of planets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expressed, by Victoria &amp;quot;We (Hauteur!) are not amused.&amp;quot; The last sentence is funny to me. &amp;quot;ga&#039;i&amp;quot; approximately rhymes with &amp;quot;ba&#039;e&amp;quot; in Lojban. &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, too. The event of the set of rhymes being sequential is funny to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I suspect that John wanted a specific attitudinal where he said &amp;quot;glare&amp;quot;, given the context. A lot of possible meanings, otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m wary about naming &amp;quot;the set of days, the set of planets&amp;quot;. I think he wanted &amp;quot;lu&#039;e&amp;quot; (lexeme LAhE) in front of the second set, making it that he was naming &amp;quot;the set of days, the symbols for the set of planets&amp;quot;. But this is a fairly advanced usage that John probably hadn&#039;t seen yet.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la saturn. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cusku fa la daisets. suzukis. &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi po la zen. skicu lo kilycna fo lo na&#039;e kilycna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi tirna lo verba zgike .i ri mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi pu tcidu lo cukta be le nu ke pamoi penmi le na&#039;e terdi prenu po&#039;u la tranx. bei la alan. din. fostr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of Saturn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expressed by ?Daisets Suzuki &amp;quot;We of Zen describe a sharp-shovel (spade) as a non-sharp-shovel (non-spade).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hear some child-music. It (the music) pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I did-read a book about the-event-of first-meeting with-the non-earth-person who is Tranx, by Alan Dean Foster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[No problems, and the last sentence was both excellently grammatical, and about as complex as I could expect from most students of the draft lessons studying on their own. The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the last sentence is legal but unneeded, possibly a remnant learned from something I wrote more than 1 1/2 years ago, when &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; unnecessarily required the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; following it.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, here is the translation and commentary for Michael Helsem&#039;s letter. We&#039;ll present the text and translation as a whole so you have some idea what the letter is talking about, then go back and look at each sentence. The italicized text is a literal translation, which in places will be difficult to understand. The normal English text is what Michael was apparently trying to say, paraphrased from his own translation and somewhat simplified. It is not always exactly what he said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following utterances are a &amp;quot;purplish-lojbanic&amp;quot; (figuratively) letter dated that named 6 which is possessed by Five-month (6th of May).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following is a letter in &amp;quot;purple Lojban&amp;quot; dated 6 May.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco le mi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u .i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e .i ta&#039;onai pu ra ku mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings! I, to you-all, for your showing my poems, am grateful (Most important point!). Earlier, throughout this space-time, I&#039;m very affair-active used-ly, and could-and-did poetry-quantity add (to something) in-amount a too-few-some (Repentance!) which (the-too-few-some is justified by my then-until-later-but-not-continuously (Belief but Obscurity!) greater state of affair-activity. Anyway, before that (an unclear reference), I comment(ed?) on a few of the earlier shown-things, associated with time unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hi, y&#039;all. Thanks for showing my poems. Earlier (all over) I was very busy, and can add too-few poems because of my from-now-on, but not continuously, even more busy state. Anyway, before that (the poems), I&#039;ll comment on a couple of the previously printed ones, while I&#039;m at it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci po&#039;u se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i .i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem which is tagged &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot;, I don&#039;t understand the reason for: your putting &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; on the front-site of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; despite motive of my previously giving [&amp;quot;providing&amp;quot; approximately is correct] an interval grammar tag, specifically &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; which is at the back-site, incidentally with a motive. This (?) is a sentence about (the quote) &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;, isn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot; (the 3rd limerick in JL11). I don&#039;t understand why you put &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, and omitted the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; that I had further back. I intended the equivalent of &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;. (The answer, explained below, is that his original English translation was ambiguous and did not convey this meaning to me.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) .i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second (whew!) about the be-labelled-by &amp;quot;the face-cover ...&amp;quot;, in the next-to-last word-line, &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; is inserted into &amp;quot;event-ish wild-weather&amp;quot; therefore with result &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; replaces, doesn&#039;t it, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;). &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (Acceptance!).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second. About the poem &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot; (also in JL11). If &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; were inserted into the selbri of the next-to-last line, would the result be &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot;? Also, &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; should replace &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, shouldn&#039;t it? I accept that &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (responding to one of Bob&#039;s comments in JL11).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu .i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu .i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i .ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But, that causes that I now-observe an in-the-past, for-a-long-time, difficulty. I a-few-times use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for a one-time, short-time-interval, event, and otherly use ... for a continuing, long-time-interval event. Two different words are necessary, I opine. And (I agree) I then-and-now loose-use, (by method of purple Lojban!), &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;. But (Obligation!) existing is the possibility of non-regular piece-utterances which are able at ceasing at-the in-front-of-site (End of example).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But this raises a difficulty I&#039;ve had for a while. Sometimes I use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for short, one-time events, and sometimes for long, continuous events. I think two words are necessary. And I agree that I loosely-use &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; after a &amp;quot;purple Lojban&amp;quot; fashion. But there ought to exist the possibility of an unsystematic ellipsis which is able to stop short.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io .i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Returning to subject), thirdly, about the last poem, the antepenultimate word-line becomes &amp;quot;a single self-observer&amp;quot;, precisely, respectfully. Enough, is that. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Thirdly, in the last poem (in JL11 actually, he meant the next-to last one), the antepenultimate word-line should indeed become &amp;quot;lo pamei seizga&amp;quot;. But enough of that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u) .i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses one of my modifications of the argument-label previous-list [I intensely want to know its (the list&#039;s) last form.] I use ??&amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which incidentally is labelled as &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses an extrapolation from one of the words in the old lexeme BAI list. I sure want to know what the final lexeme BAI list is. I use &amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which I call &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i [&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra &lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted quote for ungrammatical text]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Temporarily-destroy me;&lt;br /&gt;
and I will yonder-yonder return&lt;br /&gt;
through the medium of you.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s magic.&lt;br /&gt;
All the time,&lt;br /&gt;
we do it (with purpose)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted end-quote and &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to make the non-grammatical quoted poem a valid &#039;incomplete sentence&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now lets go over it in detail, answering Michael&#039;s questions, and raising a couple of points about the language not covered in draft textbook lessons (or at least not clearly). Don&#039;t let the extensive comments imply otherwise - Michael did an outstanding job considering the complex grammar he tried to use. He made fewer errors than his previous attempts, and they were more of the nature of not knowing the right word and/or depending on English idiom, than they were grammatical flaws.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve broken the text into individual sentences. A parser output is also included for each line. The parentheses match over the whole text, but will not match perfectly for each line (there will usually be an extra right parenthesis at the end of a sentence corresponding to a left parenthesis near the beginning of the text). We&#039;d like feedback on how useful the parser outputs are to you. Do they tell you anything, or are they just so much gibberish?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[zirjbo po&#039;a xatra] [(de&#039;i {&amp;lt;la xav.&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po&#039;e [la mumast.] GEhU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following utterances are a &amp;quot;purplish-lojbanic&amp;quot; (figuratively) letter dated that named 6 which is possessed by Five-month (6th of May).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: To date the letter, we used &amp;quot;de&#039;i&amp;quot; (associated with date ...) and not &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;. Using &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; claims that it was a letter at the time of the date given, without saying anything about what it is now. In addition to &amp;quot;de&#039;i&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tu&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; perform the same function for letters, respectively with regard to location and time-of-day. None of these three serve a &#039;tense&#039; function; they attach a date, location or time as a labelling relation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco lemi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{ni&#039;o &amp;lt;coi do&#039;u&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[( mi {do &amp;lt;pe [za (le {do &amp;lt;nu [jarco ({le &amp;lt;mi pemci&amp;gt; KU} VAU)] KEI&amp;gt;} KU)] GEhU&amp;gt;}) cu ({ckire ra&#039;u} VAU)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings! I, to you-all, for your showing my poems, am grateful (Most important point!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: In his original, Michael omitted the &amp;quot;do&#039;u&amp;quot; after &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot;. This had strange (and humorous) effects: in &amp;quot;... coi mi dopeza ...&amp;quot; the &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; grabs hold of the next sumti (&amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;), causing Michael to greet himself and imply that the rest of the letter is addressed to himself. The rest of the sentence then said (to himself) roughly that &amp;quot;You-all are grateful to the showing of my poems for something unspecified.&amp;quot; Moral: either be specific who you are greeting, remember to terminate the vocative, or immediately start a new sentence. Michael also had attached &amp;quot;lemi pemci&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;jarco&amp;quot; with the &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; link. This is grammatical, but wasn&#039;t necessary. &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and other abstraction clauses presume that an entire sentence follows, and you can include all of the sumti you want without attaching them. Remember that you have to terminate abstractions (with &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;) if another sumti follows (it doesn&#039;t in this case), or you&#039;ll have the same kind of strange effects as the vocative &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; caused.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mike translated &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; in the above sentence as an incidental &amp;quot;(of course)&amp;quot;; his Lojban actually indicates that his gratefulness was his most important point of the letter. Note that Michael&#039;s &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; attaches specifically to &amp;quot;ckire&amp;quot;, and not to the whole sentence. To apply a discursive or attitudinal to the sentence as a whole, you must put it at the beginning of the sentence, or express the normally elided &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; at the end of the sentence and attach the &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; to that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [({&amp;lt;pu vi&#039;e&amp;gt; ku} mi) CU ({&amp;lt;[mutce cutyzu&#039;e] [(pi&#039;o KU) VAU]&amp;gt; gi&#039;e pu&#039;i &amp;lt;[ninpemci jmina] [(la&#039;u {&amp;lt;lo [mo&#039;a mei u&#039;u] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ne [ki&#039;u (le {mi &amp;lt;[(ca bi&#039;i ba) (je nai) (ru&#039;i ia li&#039;a nai)] [zmadu (nu {&amp;lt;mutce cutyzu&#039;e&amp;gt; VAU} KEI)]&amp;gt;} KU)] GEhU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;} VAU)]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Earlier, throughout this space-time, I&#039;m very affair-active used-ly, and could-and-did poetry-quantity add (to something) in-amount a too-few-some (Repentance!) which (the-too-few-some is justified by my then-until-later-but-not-continuously (Belief but Obscurity!) greater state of affair-activity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Some complicated but cute tense constructions that come close to what Michael intended. What he said, &amp;quot;puvi&#039;eku&amp;quot;, is kind of self-contradictory; &amp;quot;vi&#039;e&amp;quot; means throughout an interval of space-time (which includes a time dimension), but Michael has already specified a specific time as &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;vi&#039;u&amp;quot; is the corresponding space-only interval &#039;tense&#039;, so &amp;quot;puvi&#039;uku&amp;quot; might accomplish what he intends. Another possibility is &amp;quot;pufe&#039;eroroi&amp;quot;. But Michael has also relied incorrectly on English idiom, or he wouldn&#039;t have said this at all (Michael isn&#039;t really everywhere doing anything, though he might feel it sometimes), so I didn&#039;t change what he wrote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;puvi&#039;uku&amp;quot; sets the time in the past. Michael then adds a second tense, &amp;quot;cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i&amp;quot;, apparently not realizing that this second complicated tense of the sentence is an offset from the first. Compare the English &amp;quot;I realized three weeks ago that I would shortly be very busy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the parser output breaks the compound &amp;quot;cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i&amp;quot; into individual words. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at the same time as&amp;quot; the tense implied by &amp;quot;puvi&#039;eku&amp;quot;, which is of course sometime in the past. The &amp;quot;bi&#039;i&amp;quot; indicates that there is a time interval involved, in this case starting at &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; and ending later at &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;. But &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; is still an offset from the initially set (past) tense of the sentence; thus the sentence refers to a situation that might be entirely in the past from NOW, the time when he wrote the letter, though this seems not to be what Michael intended. Moral: use multiple tenses in a sentence only when you are fairly sure you know what you are doing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One error is as much our fault as his: Michael used &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot;, intending &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot; (which normally should be &amp;quot;sepi&#039;o&amp;quot;, but was erroneously listed as &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; in the October 1988 cmavo list). I left &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; unchanged, though, since it isn&#039;t clear what Michael really meant by &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot;. In this context, I would guess that &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot; would mean that he was busy &#039;using something&#039;. &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot;, on the other hand, means that his busy-ness was &#039;being used by someone/something&#039;; i.e. possibly, he was busy in his employment. Hopefully, this is what he meant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora recommended adding the &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;... .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u&amp;quot;... . Without &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, the causal &amp;quot;ki&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase modifies the whole bridi (in this case, the 2nd half of a compound bridi centered on selbri &amp;quot;ninpemci jmina&amp;quot;); with the &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, the phrase is an explanation of the &#039;too-few-some&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Based on my best guess as to what Michael intended, I changed his causal from &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;ki&#039;u&amp;quot;. He seems to be presenting a justification for his too-few-some of poems. With &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot;, he is saying that his then-until-later-busy-ness physically caused the too-few-some. There is a second interpretation of Michael&#039;s English such that, using &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot; and no &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, Michael&#039;s busy-ness caused the adding of too-few-some; this alternative wasn&#039;t noticed until just before press time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai pu ra mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; ta&#039;o nai&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(pu ra) mi] CU [pinka ({&amp;lt;[so&#039;u BOI] [le (pu selja&#039;o) KU]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ti&#039;u KU&amp;gt;} VAU)]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Anyway, before that (an unclear reference), I comment(ed?) on a few of the earlier shown-things, associated with time unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: &amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot; is unclear here, the previous sentence is just too complex to figure out what &#039;that&#039; is. My best guess is that he intends the &amp;quot;too-few poems&amp;quot;, but only by assuming English idiom; Michael isn&#039;t commenting before &amp;quot;the too-few-some poems (that) were added&amp;quot;, since the poems were already written; he is commenting before he includes them. Avoid vague references - they are unfair to the reader/listener. My &#039;lojbanic&#039; preference would be to say something like &amp;quot;le pemci kansa deipeza&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the poems accompany this writing&amp;quot;), then followed by (in this sentence) &amp;quot;pu la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;before this accompaniment&amp;quot;) instead of &amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot;. Michael also could also have been tantalizing and correct with &amp;quot;pu da&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;before what I will eventually express&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael originally had &amp;quot;pu ra ku&amp;quot;, which became illegal about a year ago when we increased the varieties of elidable terminators, so it isn&#039;t Michael&#039;s fault. &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; closes a description, or it early-terminates a sumti tcita that isn&#039;t accompanied by a sumti such as &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; thus preventing it from absorbing a following sumti unintentionally; e.g. &amp;quot;puku mi klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Earlier, I came.&amp;quot;) vs. &amp;quot;pu mi klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Before me, (something) comes&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael translated &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; here as &amp;quot;while I&#039;m at it&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot;, as mentioned above, is used to tag letters and events (&#039;the 6 o&#039;clock news&#039;). Using &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; without a time is merely confusing. There may be a way to say what he wants briefly, but it isn&#039;t apparent to me; Michael already used one vague tense marker (&amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot;) in the sentence, and Lojban gets really nebulous when you pile vagueness upon vagueness. Given my alternative &amp;quot;pu la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, described above, the simple tense &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; on the selbri, or &amp;quot;caku&amp;quot; at the end would convey &amp;quot;while I&#039;m at it&amp;quot;. Other possibilities exist, perhaps using the sumti tcita &amp;quot;po&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci poi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i pa mai} {&amp;lt;[(se ra&#039;a) ({le pemci KU} {poi&amp;lt;[se tcita] [(lu {&amp;lt;[le (ka {sarcu VAU} kei) KU] vau&amp;gt; FAhO} li&#039;u) ku&#039;o]&amp;gt;})] mi&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;[na jimpe] [(le {krinu &amp;lt;be [le (do {nu &amp;lt;punji [({&amp;lt;zo cu&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[le crastu KU] [po (zo nu) GEhU]&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;mu&#039;i nai&amp;gt; &amp;lt;le [mi (pu {nu &amp;lt;[dunda (sei {zo sabji lu&#039;a nai} cu drani se&#039;u)] [({lo &amp;lt;temge&#039;a [tcita ({to te&#039;i} {&amp;lt;[zo ba] vau&amp;gt; FAhO} toi)]&amp;gt; KU} {pe &amp;lt;vi [(le trixystu KU) (ne {se bai KU} GEhU)]&amp;gt; GEhU}) VAU]&amp;gt; KEI})] KU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt; KEI}) KU] BEhO&amp;gt;} KU) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem which is tagged &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot;, I don&#039;t understand the reason for: your putting &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; on the front-site of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; despite motive of my previously giving [&amp;quot;providing&amp;quot; approximately is correct] an interval grammar tag, specifically &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; which is at the back-site, incidentally with a motive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Though very complex, this one made sense to me. I took out extraneous &amp;quot;be..bei...&amp;quot; constructs and replaced &amp;quot;lu...li&#039;u&amp;quot; by &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; when he quoted a single word. The only grammatical error was minor he originally had *&amp;quot;... po&#039;u se tcita ...&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; indicates a relative phrase (a sumti or tagged sumti) follows. You need &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; for a relative clause (a full bridi).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s question relates to the 3rd limerick in JL11. His original third and fourth lines read &amp;quot;.iku&#039;i le pratci / nu sisti ba batci ...&amp;quot;, which I changed to &amp;quot;.iku&#039;i le pratci / cu nu sisti kei batci&amp;quot;, and he is asking why I left the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; tense off my rewritten version, using &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Answer: His original English translation of the limerick is a superb example of ambiguous English. He said: &amp;quot;But the produce-tool / cessation bites ...&amp;quot;. This can mean &amp;quot;But the produce-tool is a cessation biter ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;But the produce-tool cessation is a biter ...&amp;quot;. One always assumes non-figurative usage in Lojban, so only the first is plausible - a tool can conceivably &#039;bite&#039;, a &#039;cessation&#039; isn&#039;t a physical thing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that his English makes no use of future tense; I probably ignored the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; since it didn&#039;t match his English; it may have looked like a typo. However, his original is grammatical, and means &amp;quot;But the produce-tool cessation will bite ...&amp;quot; which matches closely the second, figurative, usage that Michael intended.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given my interpretation of his English, my &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; made the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; ungrammatical. Furthermore, if I removed the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;, a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; was required where the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; was to close off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, else the event clause would include the &amp;quot;batci&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;nu sisti batci&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;event of cease-r biting ...&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The peril of trying to write Lojban poetry at this early stage is that the people who read it may not understand it, even if it IS correct. Figurative metaphors are sometimes chancy in English poetry - in Lojban, with no idiom, they are nonsense (and in most cases make illegitimate cultural references, a no-no in a culturally neutral language). Can good poetry be written using only &#039;analytic&#039; metaphors? I&#039;d like to see Michael try.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer, then, seems to be that my change was incorrect. Hopefully, we&#039;ll remember this when it comes time for Michael&#039;s first Lojban poetry book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i (ti CU {jufra &amp;lt;[lu ({&amp;lt;[le nunsti KU] [ne ({se kai} {le &amp;lt;ka [pratci VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) GEhU]&amp;gt; cu &amp;lt;[batci mu&#039;a nai] VAU&amp;gt;} FAhO) li&#039;u] [vau xu]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This (?) is a sentence about (the quote) &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;, isn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: Michael&#039;s sentence was grammatical, but malglico (very &#039;English&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Warning! The demonstratives &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; are unconscionably vague in written text! They presume that the listener has a way to tell what the speaker is indicating. In writing, the only way to do this would be to draw an arrow to the referenced item. (&amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; might be used to &#039;obviously&#039; refer to the letter itself, but &amp;quot;deipeza&amp;quot; is much clearer; better to avoid these by rule in writing.)&lt;br /&gt;
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English pronouns are extremely tricky to translate into Lojban, since we use them so sloppily in English. It will be the mark of malglico translation (as opposed to original Lojban expression) to see sloppy pronouns when Lojban has so many specific mechanisms for &#039;pronoun&#039; anaphora (oops! I promised to use &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In this case, no ba&#039;ivla could be clear, since Michael intended to refer to what he had originally written in his letter to me, something I had to dig out of the files to check. Michael needed to be explicit: &amp;quot;lemi selsku&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;my expression&amp;quot;, and possibly even &amp;quot;le ba&#039;emi selsku&amp;quot; to emphasize that it was his version that he wanted me to check). Even using his English translation of the letter, I would not have assumed &#039;this&#039; to refer to his original letter; I only dug it out because there was no &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; in the version printed in JL. Moral: an unambiguous language requires that its speakers remember to check for possible misunderstandings of vague references.&lt;br /&gt;
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Having gotten past the first word of the sentence, there is a major logic problem of label/reference confusion, a problem of the sort made famous in Through the Looking Glass, when Alice talks with Humpty Dumpty about what the song is, what the song is called, what the name is called, etc. Michael is saying in this bridi that something (&amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;) is a sentence about the quoted text given. The sentence he is referring to is not about the quoted text. He means that his sentence was intended to say the same thing as the quoted text. The term for this is &#039;indirect discourse&#039;, and is most familiar in English in the form &amp;quot;He said that he was going to the store.&amp;quot; The cmavo &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; accomplishes indirect reference in Lojban; it refers to the referent of any sumti it precedes. So Michael should have had &amp;quot;la&#039;elu&amp;quot; at the start of the quote.&lt;br /&gt;
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I added the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to have the true/false question &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; clearly apply to the whole sentence and not just to the quote; I wasn&#039;t sure what he was asking. Colloquial Lojban will almost certainly express yes/no questions with the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; at the beginning - it is simplest grammatically. If the question is about a specific part of the sentence, something we indicate in English with emphatic stress (&amp;quot;You went to WORK, didn&#039;t you?&amp;quot;), then the question will probably still be pre-marked with &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot;, warning the listener to expect a question.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i re mai uo cai] [({&amp;lt;[se ra&#039;a] [le (seltcita {be &amp;lt;lu [({le &amp;lt;firgai mu&#039;a nai&amp;gt; KU} vau) FAhO] li&#039;u&amp;gt; BEhO}) ku]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;vi [le ({da&#039;a moi} vlali&#039;i) ku]&amp;gt;} {zo co}) cu ({se setca} {&amp;lt;[fi (lu {&amp;lt;[fasnu cictcima] VAU&amp;gt; FAhO} li&#039;u)] [ja&#039;e ({lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u} {sei &amp;lt;zo za&#039;i&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;[basti xu] [be (zo nu) BEhO]&amp;gt; se&#039;u})]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second (whew!) about the be-labelled-by &amp;quot;the face-cover ...&amp;quot;, in the next-to-last word-line, &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; is inserted into &amp;quot;event-ish wild-weather therefore with result &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; replaces, doesn&#039;t it, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments: If the &amp;quot;whew&amp;quot; applies to the stuff that preceded being complete, it should have gone before this sentence, which starts a new topic; Michael&#039;s usage suggests that this second point is his concluding one, which is not the case. The attitudinal would be clearest in a separate &#039;sentence&#039;: &amp;quot;... .i .uocai .i remai ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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In an unambiguous language, quotation can be a problem, especially, as in Michael&#039;s letter, when he wants only a few words out of context. Lojban&#039;s grammar requires that a quotation be fully grammatical standing on its own, and most out-of-context quotes are not. The quote must also match the original, of course - you can&#039;t normally add words inside the quote to make the text grammatical without telling the listener/reader. In English print, editors abbreviate quotes and correct grammar by putting interpolated text in brackets and using ellipsis marks to indicate omitted text (e.g. &amp;quot;editors abbreviate ... [with] brackets ...&amp;quot; as a shortening of the last sentence). In Lojban, all punctuation must be spoken, so this isn&#039;t easy to do while remaining clear (we do have a way of expressing this when appropriate, though, which I&#039;ll get to in a moment).&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, in Lojban, if what you want to quote is less than a complete sentence, or has omitted text, the easiest way to do this is with the &#039;error-quotes&#039; &amp;quot;lo&#039;u ... le&#039;u&amp;quot;. I changed Michael&#039;s second out-of-context quote to use these (as well as some others further on in the letter).&lt;br /&gt;
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The other way is to make the result grammatical and mark all the changes to the original quote. The Lojban words for &amp;quot;etc.&amp;quot; are &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mu&#039;anai&amp;quot;, The former is a grammatical particle, of course, marking that there are no more sumti being expressed. The latter is a discursive having no grammar, and meaning roughly &amp;quot;concluding my examples&amp;quot;; it thus does not serve the all-purpose role of English &amp;quot;...&amp;quot;. Lojban simply cannot do the latter with all the flexibility of English and still be grammatically unambiguous. I&#039;ll discuss this further below when I talk about Michael&#039;s comments on &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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First an interlude on editorial manipulation of quotes (you probably won&#039;t mind a break from plowing line by line through the letter.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve put several features in the language to make manipulating quotes easier, some of which I&#039;ve added to Michael&#039;s letter. However, for extensive use of out-of-context quotes, only &amp;quot;lo&#039;u... le&#039;u&amp;quot; is practical if you want to keep clear what was quoted and what wasn&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
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To summarize the quote manipulation features briefly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* the word &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; is the most important. Attaching like a discursive to a word or a construct, it says that word or construct wasn&#039;t actually part of the original quote. This allows you to insert text in an ungrammatical text to make it grammatical, while making it clear what you added. The result is similar to an editor&#039;s bracketing text that was added (usually after omitting a longer text in a quote) to allow the remainder to make sense (e.g. &amp;quot;The ... [woman] sat next to me&amp;quot;). (By the way, for sticklers who ask how to quote text with the word &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; embedded, a second &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; after the first says that the first is really there. We think we&#039;ve provided adequately for the infinite series of complications that can be concocted along this line of analysis.)&lt;br /&gt;
* the word &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; followed by &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; to show that the word &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; isn&#039;t really part of the quote can be used to replace the &amp;quot;...&amp;quot; ellipsis in a quote provided that the result is grammatical. This usually requires some other modifications to the quote, each marked with &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; as well.&lt;br /&gt;
* the &#039;unquote parentheses&#039; &amp;quot;to&#039;a...to&#039;i&amp;quot;, again with &amp;quot;to&#039;a&amp;quot; marked with &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; to show they are to be taken metalinguistically, are used to interrupt a quote to get back to the &amp;quot;quoter&#039;s&amp;quot; level of the sentence. The classic use of this is for conversation quotations (&amp;quot;That window&amp;quot;, he said, pointing down the hallway, &amp;quot;is dirty&amp;quot;). In such a split quote, the two pieces are each ungrammatical, but the whole is grammatical. The division in the text is purely stylistic, providing a certain emphasis. Note that the material between the two quotes is also fully grammatical. In Lojban we express this by having the quote be the basic text, jumping out-of-quote with &amp;quot;to&#039;asa&#039;a&amp;quot;, and then returning to the quote with &amp;quot;to&#039;i&amp;quot; when the commentary is complete. Again, both the inside of the parentheses and the outside have to be completely grammatical as separate units. Furthermore, the &#039;unquote&#039; has the grammar of a parenthetical remark - a &#039;free modifier&#039;, and is mildly constrained on where it can be inserted (not in the middle of a digit string representing a number, for example).&lt;br /&gt;
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For those who ask, interrupted quotes are important to Lojban for literary usage (they are seldom used in spoken language); we added them after Athelstan tried to translate Saki (see JL10). They are used in all natural languages that we&#039;ve investigated, with few constraints on where the interruption can occur. The alternative is the stylistically &#039;boring&#039; &amp;quot;He said &#039;...&#039;. She said &#039;...&#039;. He said &#039;...&#039;.&amp;quot; which is the &#039;natural grammar&#039; form for both &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bacru&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Others ask why have all these unfriendly limits and constraints, as Michael does later in his letter. The answer is &#039;unambiguity&#039;, of course. For these people, there is the &#039;error quote&#039; that tells the listener to treat the quote as a literal quote, but to not worry about the grammar of the content. (For out-of-context quotes, though, putting a &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; discursively after the ending quote would show that text was omitted, a useful notice that makes it clear that the &#039;error quotes&#039; were used for out-of-context ellipsis, and not to mark truly ungrammatical expression.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, finally answering Michael&#039;s question as I understood it, which is based on his JL11 poem entitled &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot;, if you insert &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;nu fasnu cictcima&amp;quot;, you get &amp;quot;nu fasnu co cictcima&amp;quot;. The former means &amp;quot;event of being an occurring type of wild-weather&amp;quot;, the latter means &amp;quot;event of being an event of-type wild weather&amp;quot;, and is equivalent to &amp;quot;nu cictcima fasnu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;event of being a wild-weather event&amp;quot;). The difference between the two forms is that the final brivla determines the place structure for any attached sumti. Since this selbri is bare within a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction, that criterion does not apply here (the place structure of a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction is constant, and there are no expressed sumti anyway). The choice then is based on whether the event that Michael wants to describe (it is inherently an event because of the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;) is a &amp;quot;(weather type of event)-event&amp;quot; or an &amp;quot;(occurring-type of-weather)-event&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; still seems redundant.&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael also asks about &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; in a metalinguistic parenthesis (he originally had this parenthesis in the middle of the quote - this would have required &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; as mentioned above, and made the quote grammatically difficult to follow, where in this case the exact grammar was relevant to his question).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; could indeed be used instead of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to a subset of event/state abstractions, for which the general word is &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; states are those event situations which are being seen as essentially stable and uniform within the event, which have either a finite or an infinite duration, as opposed to being a point event, and which, if either starting or stopping boundary exists, it is effectively a single point. Thus we normally think of &#039;being awake&#039; as a &#039;state&#039;, whereas being hit by a car is a point event, expressed by the achievement abstractor &amp;quot;mu&#039;e&amp;quot;. (Obviously, we don&#039;t necessarily think of being hit by a car as an achievement, but by Aristotelian logic it is, based on the &#039;shape&#039; of the event, called the &amp;quot;event contour&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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I may write more on abstractions for either JL14 or JL15, since they relate also to the changes made to the tense design. Writing them up will help me in creating the textbook sections on these topics. But no promises.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i &amp;lt;[zo fasnu] [ca ({nalsarcu i&#039;a} VAU)]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (Acceptance!).&lt;br /&gt;
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.iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i ku&#039;i} {ta CU &amp;lt;rinka [(le {nu &amp;lt;mi CU [ninzga ({lo &amp;lt;[pu ze&#039;u] nandu&amp;gt; KU} VAU)]&amp;gt; KEI} KU) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But, that causes that I now-observe an in-the-past, for-a-long-time, difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata pilno fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i (mi {&amp;lt;su&#039;o roi&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(pilno {&amp;lt;[zo nu] [lo ({pa roi} {tortei bo fasnu}) KU]&amp;gt; VAU}) gi&#039;e ({drata pilno} {&amp;lt;fi [lo (ranji {clatei bo fasnu}) KU]&amp;gt; VAU})] VAU&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I a-few-times use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for a one-time, short-time-interval, event, and otherly use ... for a continuing, long-time-interval event.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: Michael had used &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; here where the second &amp;quot;pilno&amp;quot; appears (&amp;quot;... gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi ...&amp;quot;). &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;, however, refers to the bridi in the previous sentence, not to the first half of this compound bridi. One of &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;&#039;s major purposes, is to enable answering &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; questions. If &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; counted bridi that were pieces of sentences, you would have trouble answering a &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; at the beginning of this compound sentence asking whether the entirety were true.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no member of lexeme GOhA for Michael&#039;s purpose, either - there are several other ways to rephrase what he wrote. For example, in a compound bridi where there is a common selbri like this, you can rearrange the sentence. I&#039;ve used subscripted tenses to deal with the dichotomy of times, and added in the dichotomy discursives &amp;quot;zu&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;zu&#039;unai&amp;quot; to show their usage:&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo zu&#039;u paroi tortei bo fasnu ne su&#039;oroikuxipa .e lo zu&#039;unai ranji clatei bo fasnu ne su&#039;oroikuxire&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for on-the-one-hand a one-time, short-time-interval, sometimes1, AND, on the other hand a continuing, long-time-interval event, sometimes2.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other ways to express the time dichotomy include &#039;termset&#039; constructions that allow logical connections between sets of sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [({re BOI} {frica valsi} KU) cu (sarcu {vau pe&#039;i})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Two different words are necessary, I opine.&lt;br /&gt;
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Response: Indeed. And we have five (or more). As mentioned above, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; is the general, abstract event/state term, while we have for words for 4 various kinds of events/states, also within lexeme &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. In most communications, it is not necessary that you be specific about the &#039;event contour&#039;; it is irrelevant or obvious from the context. On the other hand, if you wish to make a distinction in which the kind of event is important, you can do this as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban concept is to minimize metaphysical assumptions. In this case, by this, we mean that we don&#039;t require the speaker to assume that being awake is a &#039;state&#039;, while being hit by a car is an &#039;achievement&#039;. You can talk about the &#039;state&#039; of being hit by a car or the &#039;achievement&#039; point-event of being awake. The former is a bit mind-boggling, I&#039;ll admit; the latter occurs for me sometimes when Nora gets up in the morning to go to work, at the inhuman hour of 6AM. Of course, you can choose not to decide how to think of the event, and use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, since Lojban doesn&#039;t require you to specify the type of event in order for it to be an event. This is the same argument that justifies optional tense in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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.ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; je ie&amp;gt; &amp;lt;mi [(pu je ca) ({luzypli &amp;lt;to [(tai {&amp;lt;zirjbo cai&amp;gt; vau}) FAhO] toi&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;zo go&#039;i&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And (I agree) I then-and-now loose-use, (by method of purple Lojban!), &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: The logical connective between sentences here seems unnecessary. The &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; at the beginning of most Lojban sentences sentence can be translated as the run-on &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; that often occurs at the beginning of English sentences like Michael&#039;s; in Lojban you have to run-on, unless you are done talking or changing subjects. malglico!&lt;br /&gt;
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(You use the logical connectives between sentences when there is logical import to the joining. For example, in &amp;quot;da blanu .i da klama&amp;quot;, because there is no logical connective, the two &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;s could refer to different &#039;something&#039;s. In &amp;quot;da blanu .ije da klama&amp;quot;, both &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;s are &#039;bound&#039; under the same logical scope, and hence must refer to the same thing.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael loosely-uses the English meaning of the word &amp;quot;loose&amp;quot; in the lujvo &amp;quot;luzypli&amp;quot;. We want Lojban words to have a simple, pure meaning, without importing all the connotations of English. I can think of several meanings for the tanru &#039;loose-user&#039; that keep us from wanting to import this phrase from English. What I think Michael intended is more clearly rendered as &amp;quot;jbige&#039;a pilno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;approximate-grammar use&amp;quot;) or &amp;quot;jbidra pilno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;approximately-correct use&amp;quot;) With these clearer tanru, Michael&#039;s comment practically answers itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael also probably wanted &amp;quot;ta&#039;i&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;tai&amp;quot; in the parenthesis. Both words convey some senses of English &amp;quot;in manner&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ta&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to a form, while &amp;quot;tai&amp;quot; refers to a method. The context indicates that he expresses in the form of purple-Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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.iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i ku&#039;i ei} {zasti &amp;lt;[fa (le {nuncumki &amp;lt;be [(lo {naldikni &amp;lt;se spicru&amp;gt;} KU) (poi {kakne &amp;lt;[le (nu {sisti &amp;lt;[vi (lo {crastu mu&#039;a nai} KU)] VAU&amp;gt;} KEI) KU] VAU&amp;gt;} KUhO)] BEhO&amp;gt;} KU)] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But (Obligation!) existing is the possibility of non-regular piece-utterances which are able at ceasing at-the in-front-of-site (End of example).&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: Good sentence, with sumti rearrangement to liven it up. The relative clause gives a pleasantly Lojbanic active sense in talking about the &#039;abilities&#039; of an utterance. The clause could more briefly be expressed with a &#039;potential tense&#039;, lexeme CAhA: &amp;quot;poi ka&#039;e sisti vi lo crastu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;is-innately-capable-of ceasing at-the in-front-of-site&amp;quot;). Of course, in a sentence based on &amp;quot;cumki&amp;quot;, the tense can be optionally omitted entirely, since &#039;possibility&#039; implies &#039;timeless capability&#039; in most circumstances.&lt;br /&gt;
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I unfortunately can&#039;t agree with Michael&#039;s statement. As I stated above, the grammar cannot provide total flexibility to just stop any old place and have the listener able to unambiguously determine what you meant. Pragmatically, this may be desirable, but most incomplete sentences are grammatically ambiguous. My favorite example is the English &amp;quot;I went to the window quickly and ...&amp;quot;, which has innumerable possible follow-ons, using several different grammatical forms. In English literary usage, ambiguity is permissible and sometimes desirable. In Lojban, it cannot be, or we don&#039;t have any special claim as a language. Lojban, on the other hand, has expressive flexibility that isn&#039;t possible in English, derived from the increased varieties of vagueness (semantic ambiguity) that Lojban gains by not having an ambiguous grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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Pragmatically, whether people will speak Lojban grammatically, or will &#039;loose-use&#039; Lojban is unknown. Michael seems to have enough command of the language to help set the example for the former, though this will undoubtedly cramp some of his poetic style. But then, Lojban poetry that uses Lojban&#039;s unique distinction between grammatical and semantic ambiguity will truly be a new art form.&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, as a aside that seems relevant here, John Hodges queries Michael for comments on the following (with input sought from anyone else with an opinion):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I&#039;ve heard that poetry gains beauty from a disciplined structure, that precision is not the enemy of art. If so, great. I have noticed that the first thing many people try to do with a &#039;logical&#039; language is write poetry in it. This may be only because it is new and therefore exotic.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Presuming John&#039;s intent: on the other hand, Lojban may impose a discipline that may make it possible to achieve &#039;beauty&#039; that isn&#039;t possible in a language as unstructured as English or indeed in any natural language. What do people think on this subject?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i ta&#039;o nai ci mai) ({&amp;lt;[se ra&#039;a] [le ({ro moi} pemci) ku]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;le [(da&#039;a re moi) vlali&#039;i] KU&amp;gt;} cu {binxo &amp;lt;[lo&#039;u lo pa mei seizga le&#039;u] [vau lu&#039;anai io]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Returning to subject), thirdly, about the last poem, the antepenultimate word-line becomes &amp;quot;a single self-observer&amp;quot;, precisely, respectfully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Some confusion here as to which poem Michael meant. Michael really means the next-to-last poem in JL11; the last one pertains to Sapir-Whorf. From examining my comments, Michael is choosing one of my alternate expressions for the line in question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [banzu ({fa ta} VAU)]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Enough, is that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Another dangling demonstrative. Who knows what &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; is? The bare &amp;quot;.i banzu&amp;quot; would have been more clear, and Lojbanic, although this sentence is the truly appropriate place for the &amp;quot;.uocai&amp;quot; he put in an earlier paragraph, as anyone who has plowed through all this can agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;le [vi pemci] KU&amp;gt; cu &amp;lt;pilno [({pa BOI} {lei &amp;lt;mi [terga&#039;i (be {fe &amp;lt;le [(sumti tcita) (purste {sei mi CU &amp;lt;camdji [djuno (be {le &amp;lt;ri [(ro moi) tarmi]&amp;gt; KU} BEhO)]&amp;gt; se&#039;u})] KU&amp;gt;} BEhO)]&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses one of my modifications of the argument-label previous-list [I intensely want to know its (the list&#039;s) last form.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Excellent. Hopefully, Michael will be at least temporarily satisfied by the cmavo list enclosed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {mi CU &amp;lt;pilno [({&amp;lt;lo&#039;u se xe be&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt; &amp;lt;zo be&#039;i&amp;gt;} {vi &amp;lt;[le pemci KU] [noi ({se tcita} {&amp;lt;lu [({&amp;lt;le [te pemci] KU&amp;gt; e &amp;lt;le [se binxo] KU&amp;gt;} vau) FAhO] li&#039;u&amp;gt; VAU}) KUhO]&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I use ??&amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which incidentally is labelled as &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Michael used *&amp;quot;mi pilno zo sexebe&#039;i zo be&#039;i ...&amp;quot; in his original. &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; is a very picky single word quote - it truly wants a single Lojban word. &amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; is a 3-word compound, and the &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; quoted only the first word of it. Lest you think me to be picky, Michael&#039;s result was actually grammatical, if nonsense, parsing as (I use &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; with transmission media &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot;...), since &amp;quot;xebe&#039;i&amp;quot; is a valid sumti tcita, and in fact was probably the one he wanted based on his English for the poem. A double conversion is meaningless for a modal, which can only specify one place the im-plied bridi relationship; using lexeme SE before a modal indicates that the indicated non-first place of the associated brivla describes the relationship of the attached sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The cmavo list enclosed with this issue exhaustively interprets the modals for first two places associated with each lexeme BAI member, and gives the identified &#039;useful&#039; ones that access at-least-third places (some of the 2nd place conversions seem redundant to the unmarked 1st-place modals, such as &amp;quot;du&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;sedu&#039;i&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i [*&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; sa&#039;a vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i ({lo&#039;u sa&#039;a ko mi zasyspo i je mi ba vuzyvuzyxru se xe be&#039;i do i makfa i ro roi ku mi&#039;o zukte ra le&#039;u sa&#039;a} vau sa&#039;a)] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted quote for ungrammatical text]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Temporarily-destroy me;&lt;br /&gt;
and I will yonder-yonder return&lt;br /&gt;
through the medium of you.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s magic.&lt;br /&gt;
All the time,&lt;br /&gt;
we do it (with purpose)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted end-quote and &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to make the non-grammatical quoted poem a valid &#039;incomplete sentence&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Note that the parser makes no attempt to figure out what is inside the quotes, which is why &amp;quot;lo&#039;u...le&#039;u&amp;quot; exist. There were several minor problems with this succinct poem that totalled to an overall bad effect; one of the problems I had to correct to even legally put it in error quotes instead of non-Lojban quotes, which seemed unfair to Michael, who made a game attempt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Of course the erroneous sumti tcita made the text ungrammatical. This is actually the only grammar error in the whole poem, but warranted the error quotes.&lt;br /&gt;
# The lujvo in the second word is properly formed, but Michael&#039;s original word *&amp;quot;vuzvuzyxru&amp;quot; was not. The latter breaks up morphologically, with the CV at the beginning falling off in spoken form, resulting in *&amp;quot;vu zvuzyxru&amp;quot;, which is based on the long-rafsi form for a hypothetical Lojban gismu *&amp;quot;zvuza&amp;quot; (or some other final vowel). The test described in the lujvo-making algorithm applies here: if you start off with a CVC rafsi, and the first consonant cluster is a permissible initial, the CV will fall off. You have to break up the permissible initial with a hyphen &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; to keep this from happening.&lt;br /&gt;
# The only other serious problem is &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; which has no legal referent, since all of the preceding sumti are personal pronouns which cannot be anaphorized (oops! se ba&#039;ivla). In any case, from Michael&#039;s English translation, he probably wants &amp;quot;lenu go&#039;i&amp;quot; or some other member of GOhA, depending on what &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; is - the English is too ambiguous for me to guess. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;On the other hand, another possibility is &amp;quot;le go&#039;i&amp;quot;, an option only because he uses &amp;quot;It&#039;s magic&amp;quot; as the translation for the observative &amp;quot;makfa&amp;quot;, which has no sumti. This suggests that the &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; in the last line is the same it that is ellipsized in the observative. This, if it was what Michael intended, would be an new and unforeseen use of Lojban&#039;s unique capability for grammatically unambiguous ellipsis, a truly Lojbanic poetic usage.&lt;br /&gt;
# Not quite as bad are some curious and possibly malglico word choices. However, it is possible that Michael actually intended what his word choices mean: &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zasyspo&amp;quot; expands literally to &amp;quot;temporary-destroyer&amp;quot;; the underlying tanru suggests to me that the brivla relates to temporarily performing acts of destruction, as opposed to destroying with temporary effect, which is what the rest of the poem implies. Of course, both are possible and Michael may have intended the semantic ambiguity. But I don&#039;t like it &#039;enshrined&#039; as a lujvo when I can&#039;t be sure what it means. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;roroi&amp;quot; is a version of &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; that means literally &amp;quot;at all times&amp;quot; or constantly over the unspecified interval of time. The colloquial English &amp;quot;all-the-time&amp;quot; suggests one of the aspect tenses like &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;regularly&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;typically&amp;quot;, all found in lexeme TAhE, might have been what Michael intended.&lt;br /&gt;
#I suspect that Michael made the bad lujvo discussed in 2. above partially because it looks and sounds interesting. It makes me uncomfortable though, to make a lujvo solely for that purpose, when the lujvo-based bridi has no grammatical advantage (in terms of grouping or terminators) or Zipfean advantage (length) over the shorter and simpler &amp;quot;mi bavuvu xruti&amp;quot;, which I believe is both grammatical and means what Michael intended, keeping the tenses in the tense place. I gave rafsi to the locators of lexeme VA to allow potential for relative lujvo such as &amp;quot;the here-sitter and &amp;quot;the there-sitter&amp;quot;, say, for use by a teacher in a classroom, where situations might frequently arise for using such relative words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t pose an alternative for Michael&#039;s poem. He needs to re-express what he meant. I ended up not doing more of his poetry in this issue (including a few more poems in the same letter) because a lot of his poems have word-choice questions of this sort that I can&#039;t quickly resolve. (This means, Michael, that I&#039;d like you to go through your poems one more time, looking for the types of problems I&#039;ve discussed here. Also, try back-translating your poems &#039;literally&#039; without your English handy.) Michael&#039;s doing an excellent job of exercising the language though. I just wish he had a parser so he could see how some of his sentences are taken. Perhaps the parser outputs above will help him and others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s expressions are very complex, and sometimes I suspect, very English in phrasing. I wrote the instructions for using the machine grammar specifically with people like him in mind. Several of you, like Michael, want to express very complicated thoughts in Lojban right from the start. The only way I can see to accomplish this, without taking the extensive analysis that this letter required, is for people to exercise building up sentences from smaller, simpler pieces, as described in the instructions for the machine grammar, then seeing what they&#039;ve built. If John Hodges is right about discipline and art, then this kind of disciplined grammar development may be far more useful to an artist than creative tanru and lujvo-making, at which Michael is clearly exceptional.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now its your turn. I&#039;d like to report next issue that we&#039;re pleasantly drowning in Lojban text from all 110+ level 3 students and a few of the rest of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124086</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 14 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124086"/>
		<updated>2020-08-16T08:08:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 10 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273 &lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 14 - March 1991&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1991, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fund-Raising Drive Successful&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Regular In-Language Activities Started&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan Trademark Claim Cancelled&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 91 - 21-24 June 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot; (commonly called &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;), and informing the community about logical languages in general. For purposes of terminology, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; refers to a specific version of a logical language, the generic language and associated research project having been called &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; refer to both the generic language and to Lojban as a specific instance of that language. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Page count this issue: 96+8 enclosures ($10.40 North America, $12.48 elsewhere). Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 270. We now have about 600 people on our active mailing list, and 200 more awaiting textbook publication.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We skipped one quarterly issue cycle, but have now resumed our activities. This longer than average issue should help make up for the long wait.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue reports on the news of the last 6 months. In addition, we briefly survey the &#039;areas of interest&#039; that are listed on our registration form, so that you can see the scope of Lojban activities, and the potential in each area. We then move from this general discussion into the specific topic of Lojban and linguistics, with which the bulk of this issue deals. (Please pardon the occasional jargon therein - some contributors were writing for a different audience. We&#039;ve tried to elaborate on the jargon where it seemed necessary for understanding. The lead article on this topic is John Cowan&#039;s response to the 1969 critical review of Loglan written by linguist Dr. Arnold Zwicky; that review was never responded to by Dr. Brown, to the detriment of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s acceptance in the linguistics community. We also include edited transcripts of some computer network discussions regarding Lojban, Esperanto, and linguistics, and a brief description of Lojban written for linguists (as opposed to our brochure discussion for laymen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, we print some of your letters, with responses. Thanks to all of you for your continued interest and support. Included are final words for now on the subject of Esperanto and Lojban, including a more scholarly discussion on &#039;rule-counting&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier continues his regular &#039;column&#039; written directly in Lojban, and without translation. All subscribers should have all the materials needed to read this text. We also have other texts of various levels of difficulty, including a simple and familiar fairy tale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --3&lt;br /&gt;
  Using	the Language					       --5&lt;br /&gt;
  Language Development Activities			       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status, Prices, and Ordering			       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Publicity						      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News					      --13&lt;br /&gt;
  News From the	Institute - Trademark Cancellation	      --14&lt;br /&gt;
A Survey of Lojban Applications				      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review	of Loglan 1	      --21&lt;br /&gt;
A First	Cut at a Linguistic Description	of Lojban	      --29&lt;br /&gt;
Computer Network Discussions on	Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...)	  --30&lt;br /&gt;
   including Lojban gismu Etymologies			      --60&lt;br /&gt;
Proposed Lojban	Machine	Grammar	Baseline Changes	      --67&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow    --70&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska - some comparative artificial	linguistics, a story, and more	--76&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			      --88&lt;br /&gt;
The Recent Press Release			  --Back Page (96)&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - cmavo change list,	Lojban Grammar in E-BNF	form&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at: lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also join the Lojban news-group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your mailing address to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send traffic for the news-group to: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve mail facility. Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period: nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve or Usenet/Internet address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice- President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and Institute Loglan another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As most of you know, we sent out a fund-raising letter in November to all US, Canada, and Mexico subscribers, requesting that people contribute against their voluntary balance, or to donate extra money if their balance was positive. Our finances after JL13 had reached a crisis state, and action needed to be taken.&lt;br /&gt;
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I want to thank those of you who responded to our fund-raising letter. We received over 100 contributions in response to that letter in 6 weeks, more than twice the number of letters we usually receive in 3 months in response to a JL issue. Clearly, you prefer to be bugged about finances in a direct letter rather in the pages of this issue. $3500 in contributions was received in November and December, and small amounts continue to trickle in. Of that money, most was payments against voluntary balances, but over $1000 of it was in donations. (We have sent out summary notices for tax purposes acknowledging all donations received during 1990. If you believe that you made a donation and did not get a receipt, please let us know.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A secondary goal of the mailing was to identify people who were not reading our publications, and who wished to be dropped to a lower level of mailing, or who wished to be dropped entirely until at least after the textbook is published. Some 25 of the respondents requested such a drop in level.&lt;br /&gt;
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A tertiary goal of the mailing was to identify as many as possible incorrect addresses. Our normal 3rd class bulk mailing has a label requesting forwarding, and guaranteeing forwarding postage. However, such notices are often ignored by the post office, which treats bulk mailings as being of the lowest priority. Moral: if you want to keep getting material from us, make sure we get a change of address from you when you move - don&#039;t rely on the post office to tell us. To our first class mailing, we received over 35 such notices of incorrect addresses, many of which also had no for- warding notice on file with the post office.&lt;br /&gt;
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All in all the letter was a big success, much better than we had hoped for in response to our plea, especially given a recession in the economy and the distractions of world events. We finished the year with over $4000 in the bank, and are no longer living from week to week.&lt;br /&gt;
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We aren&#039;t out of the woods yet, of course. While we have $4000 in the bank, voluntary balances total $4500. So we still technically owe more than we have. In addition, legal bills, which Jeff Prothero and Bob have committed to paying, constitute a recorded liability on our accounts of some $6000, making our net worth substantially negative. And we still need to accumulate $5000-$10000 for publication of the Lojban textbook. So don&#039;t hold back just because we&#039;re not on the point of bankruptcy anymore. Still, you can rest assured that we are in business for a while to come, and if you continue to respond when we are really in need, you can count on la lojbangirz. being around to support your Loglan/Lojban interests and efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have a head start on finances this year. Sylvia Rutiser has pledged a donation of at least $1000 in support of la lojbangirz. for the coming year.&lt;br /&gt;
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Following is a summary of the la lojbangirz. financial report for 1990. This report has not yet been finalized and approved by the Board of Directors.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						 1990 Financial	Report&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
					      1990		  1989&lt;br /&gt;
Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contributions/Deferred Reimbursements	  $8523.37	      $8037.88&lt;br /&gt;
Donations				  $6164.90	      $7633.40&lt;br /&gt;
					  ________	      ________&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Net Income				 $14688.27	     $15671.28&lt;br /&gt;
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Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printing and Publications		  $3892.76	      $5643.92&lt;br /&gt;
Non-administrative Postage		  $1001.85	      $1903.91&lt;br /&gt;
Virginia Sales Tax Collections		    $34.02		$40.32&lt;br /&gt;
Royalties				    $60.00		$50.00&lt;br /&gt;
Office Supplies				   $434.86	       $494.13&lt;br /&gt;
Software				     $0.00	       $102.41&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest/LogFair				   $957.87	       $394.11&lt;br /&gt;
Advertising/Publicity/Conventions	    $39.70	      $1602.90&lt;br /&gt;
Telephone				  $1180.62	      $1239.53&lt;br /&gt;
Administrative Expenses	     $228.19		     $518.71&lt;br /&gt;
Legal Expenses		    $3082.00		    $4099.68&lt;br /&gt;
			    ________		    ________&lt;br /&gt;
			    $3310.19	  $3310.19  $4618.39  $4618.39&lt;br /&gt;
				 30%	  ________	 29%   _______&lt;br /&gt;
Net Expenses				 $11052.68	     $16089.62&lt;br /&gt;
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Net Gain/Loss				  $3635.59	      (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
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				      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1991&lt;br /&gt;
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     Assets&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Cash in bank account				 $4276.02&lt;br /&gt;
     Undeposited checks					  $109.49&lt;br /&gt;
     Estimated Value of	Inventory			  $703.30&lt;br /&gt;
							 ________&lt;br /&gt;
     Net Assets						 $5089.51&lt;br /&gt;
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     Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
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     Subscriber	Voluntary Balances Refundable&lt;br /&gt;
	  (See Attachment B)			       ($4550.36)&lt;br /&gt;
     Unpaid Legal Fees				       ($6360.00)&lt;br /&gt;
     VA	State Sales Tax	Collections			 ($12.83)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The most significant component of our huge drop in net worth is the unfunded legal liability. Jeff Prothero and Bob LeChevalier have committed to funding this liability in full. At our current expenditure rate, this will take about 2 years to pay off. With the February 1991 trademark ruling in our favor, additional legal fees are expected to be minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Subscription Accounts as of 1 January 1991 ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 735 accounts. Of these, 544 were currently active (level 0 or above). Known readership is about 50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single sub- scriptions. (The number has grown by over 35 in the first 6 weeks of 1991.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 45-60% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Only 15% of the level 0 recipients have positive balances. This is not sufficient for long term financial security; donations do not make up the difference and no extra money is left over for non-subscription activities.&lt;br /&gt;
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As of 14 February, there were 92 subscribers at level 3, 100 at level 2, 55 at level 1, 332 at level 0, and 191 at level B for a total of 770. About 20% of our subscribers are non-U.S., with about 1/2 of these in Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
gismu lists		 601				   &lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash	 133				   &lt;br /&gt;
flash cards		  30				   &lt;br /&gt;
Lessons	beyond Lesson 1	 127				   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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83 persons have donated a total of $13976.31 since incorporation (32/$7842.15 incorporation through end of 1989; 36/$5093.63 from before incorporation); 46 donors donated during 1990, including $1529 each from Bob &amp;amp; Nora and from Jeff Prothero that was applied to legal fees; others donated a net of $3106.94.&lt;br /&gt;
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157 persons have net positive voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
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542 persons have net negative voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
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All others have 0 balances.&lt;br /&gt;
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13 people have balances &amp;gt;$100, 40 have balances &amp;gt;$50, 89 have balances &amp;gt;$20. These are the people who are keeping us afloat. We need a much higher percentage of you in these categories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s proposed budget for 1991 (not yet approved by the Directors) presumes balance contributions of about $13400, legal donations of $6600 from Bob and Nora and Jeff Prothero, $4800 in donations from the rest of you, and expenses of around $25600, for a net loss of $729. To meet this budget, we need as many as possible of you to pay your share (as appropriate for your mailing level); otherwise we will repeat last year&#039;s financial crisis.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Using the Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
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While we have been laying low for 6 months, husbanding our money carefully, the language has been progressing in several directions. This section discusses progress in making Loglan/Lojban a living language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Conversation sessions - After several delays while we tried to find an optimal meeting day, Lojbanists in the Washington DC area have now started a weekly Lojban conversation/learning session. A group of 6 Lojbanists of varying skill levels has been meeting on Tuesday evenings at Bob and Nora&#039;s house to use the language. These 6 are Bob and Nora, Athelstan, Sylvia Rutiser, Darren Stalder, and Keith Lynch. Others have inquired and are expected to join within the next few weeks; if you are in or visiting the DC area and want to drop in, contact Bob at 703-385- 0273. You needn&#039;t be especially skilled in the language; none of the rest of us are, either. From the experience thus far, it is useful to know as much vocabulary as possible. You&#039;ll pick up the grammar easily (sentence complexity tends to be fairly simple), but a novice will spend most of the time hunting through words lists in order to follow what is being said. (On the other hand, Keith, who is a relative novice, says that he has learned some words quickly simply by looking them up over and over.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The emphasis during the sessions is on actual Lojban conversation, and no English is spoken for about 2 hours (8-10PM). Before and after the 2-hour sessions, there are discussions of translation, grammar questions, and other things better handled in English. We are hoping to eventually start regularly offering a mini-lesson for new Lojbanists during the hour before the Lojban session.&lt;br /&gt;
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Letter exchanges - Sylvia has been working on one other aspect of bringing Lojban to life. She has written to two Lojbanists who have written to us in Lojban, and is working on letters to a couple of others. (If you write a letter to us in Lojban, and include a translation so we can figure out any errors, you WILL get an answer, though we can&#039;t promise how quickly.) Michael Helsem has written a (complicated) letter on Lojban and poetry to Athelstan, as well as several to Bob, and Athelstan is working on an answer. Bob doesn&#039;t have time to respond to Lojban letters personally (except for really short ones), and passes them to Sylvia, who wants the practice. Of course, if she writes to you, please respond reasonably quickly so that she knows whether you understood any of her writing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Translations and writings - As shown in this issue, there have also been several people working on writings and translations of various length and complexity. In addition, Jamie Bechtel has translated an Ursula Leguin short story, which we plan to publish after getting a copy- right release from the author. Bob has also intermittently worked on a translation of the first chapter of Heinlein&#039;s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but this also needs a copyright release. He is also working on the initial story of Burton&#039;s Arabian Nights (the Scheherazade story), which is both not copyrighted and written in the style of the original Arabic, giving us a flavor of translation other than from English. (It is obviously preferable to translate things that are not copyrighted, or that the copyright has expired. Sherlock Holmes or Lewis Carroll, anyone?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Carter translation - One translation project that has been started, albeit slowly, is the attempt to update two stories by Jim Carter, originally written in 1984 in an earlier version of Loglan, to fit the current language. These are full-fledged short stories, not just sentences or paragraphs, and are quite a bit longer than even the Saki short story translation published in JL10. The first being worked on is called &#039;Akira&#039;, and is a science fiction story; the other is called &#039;The Welding Shop&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are trying to involve as many people as possible in this effort, each taking a sentence or a paragraph, or even a couple of tanru. Since the vocabulary has changed so considerably since 1984, and Jim Brown&#039;s versions of the language have had so many defective tanru, volunteers can work on problems as small as a single word. For example, in Sylvia Rutiser&#039;s translation of the first paragraph of the Akira story, printed later in this issue, she was quite dissatisfied with the tanru she devised for &#039;to fall by parachute&#039;. We welcome all suggestions for this concept, and any others in that paragraph. We also pose another paragraph for translation, which we ask all of you to work on, again even if only a word or two. Sylvia will compile the results for next issue. As more people become skilled in the language, we can pass out larger chunks of the text.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFair - We had a get-together at Bob and Nora&#039;s house, the last weekend in October. Turnout was small, and the discussion ranged over a wide area of topics. A smaller version of LogFest, we hope to hold future LogFairs at other locations besides the Washington DC area.&lt;br /&gt;
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Logfest 91 - The annual meeting of la lojbangirz., and the associated celebration of Lojban, will be held a week later this year than in previous years, on the weekend of 22-23 June 1991, at Bob and Nora&#039;s house in the suburban Washington DC area. (We officially start on Friday night and end on Monday morning, but those two days tend to be primarily social.) The schedule change allows us to miss several competing activities that have prevented people from coming in the past. If you are planning to come and do not know how to get here, contact us by letter or phone at the address or phone given for la lojbangirz. (day or evenings); we are on a major rapid transit line and thus easily accessible to all modes of transportation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The major design decisions about the language having been made before now, we are hoping to shift the emphasis of our gathering from language design to language use and application. There will thus be sessions on teaching and learning the language, including demonstrations of our teaching materials, Lojban conversation for novices as well as for more advanced students, group efforts at Lojban translation, etc. There also may be discussion of specific Lojban applications. There will be a limited amount of preplanned programming; call us the week before the gathering to find out details. On the other hand, most activities will be ad-hoc, determined by the interests of those present at any given time.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can come for one day or the entire weekend; families are welcome. Most attendees who spend the entire weekend, bring sleeping bags or borrow blankets; we have plenty of floor space. Especially if coming from out-of-town, we recommend letting us know in advance that you are coming, how many, and when you expect to arrive and leave, so we can plan logistics; drop-ins are of course welcome, though. Based on previous years expenses, we ask for a voluntary donation of around $30 per person for the whole weekend to cover food, beverages, etc. Many give more, a few come who cannot contribute. (Money contributed on this weekend, unless specifically noted, is considered a donation towards LogFest expenses, and does not apply to voluntary bal- ances.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope to see as many Lojbanists as possible at our activities this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Language Development Activities ===&lt;br /&gt;
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A lot of work has been done in the area of language development, much of it by John Cowan, who in only several months has become the principal expert on the formal grammar (thus relieving Bob of a major burden).&lt;br /&gt;
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Grammar baseline changes and BNF development - As reported in last issue, John aided in the final push for a grammar baseline, devising new designs for MEX (the grammar of mathematical expressions), the tense grammar, and the method of expressing letters and symbols. We did an awful lot of work in only a few weeks, and unfortunately, not all of it was perfect. John has found a few mistakes in further analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over the 6 months since the baseline, John has effectively done a complete analysis of the grammar, almost from scratch. He did this by developing an alternative way of describing the grammar, using a method called Extended Backus-Naur Form (E-BNF). Unlike the YACC form of the grammar (YACC is a tool for developing computer languages), published last issue, the E-BNF form is condensed and considerably easier to understand. John&#039;s BNF grammar, enclosed with this issue, requires only 4 pages of standard type. The E-BNF grammar is similar to the baseline machine grammar, including some minor proposals as described below.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with an E-BNF grammar is that it cannot be verified as unambiguous using YACC. This required a lot of checking and cross-checking. In the process of doing this, every rule of the grammar had to be examined. Some things showed up as problems:&lt;br /&gt;
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* errors made in the last minute push for a baseline, sometimes only typos, other times rules that were accidentally deleted;&lt;br /&gt;
* asymmetries between similar structures in the grammar, such as differing priority for logical connectives in compound bridi as compared to other logical connective structures;&lt;br /&gt;
* rules that were clumsily constructed, often as fossils of earlier versions of the grammar when they were necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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John also volunteered to work on a Lojban parser, and in thinking about the parser design, proposed some minor changes that would make the design easier.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of all of this analysis, John has proposed 19 changes to the baseline grammar, of which 3 were withdrawn after discussion. The 16 that remain may sound like a lot, but each is very minor, often affecting only 1 or 2 rules of the roughly 600 in the YACC grammar baseline. Even this overstates the effect on the average Lojban student&#039;s learning effort. Most of the changes are additions or enhancements to the language, and I doubt if any of the grammar changes proposed affect any text that has been written thus far in the language. Thus, the language can be considered quite stable, though clearly the grammar is not quite as mature as the gismu list, now baselined for 2 1/2 years.&lt;br /&gt;
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The changes are described along with their purpose and justification in an article below. The principal design group has looked over these changes and accepted them, but publication of the proposals is a necessary step for a baseline change. Thus you have an opportunity to comment or ask questions about these changes, prior to a formal approval decision, expected at or before LogFest. Anyone who has worked in depth with the grammar, and wants to see the specific rule changes proposed, may write or send a computer-mail message to us, and we&#039;ll be happy to provide it.&lt;br /&gt;
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There may be additional changes at this very low level up until the completion of the textbook and dictionary. These will be as a result of actual usage or problems discovered as a result of finally having a parser incorporating the complete set of rules. However, you shouldn&#039;t get the idea that the language is unstable because of these changes, requiring a significant effort at relearning, since they will almost certainly be changes in seldom-used features of the language. Ju&#039;i Lobypli will continue to publish such proposals as they are presented and preliminarily approved.&lt;br /&gt;
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cmavo list - As part of John Cowan&#039;s review, a couple of lexemes (word grammatical categories) have been eliminated, and the associated cmavo freed. (As a side note, we will be trying to phase out use of the word &#039;lexeme&#039; for these categories, in favor of the Lojban word &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot;, (from se cmavo) or cmavo word category. &#039;Lexeme&#039;, used by Jim Brown and adopted by everyone else, turns out to be an incorrect linguistic term for the concept - the appropriate term is really &#039;grameme&#039;. But since few people know these jargon terms anyway, we would rather use the non-jargon Lojban word.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of two place structure changes, we had to make some minor changes to associated gismu in selma&#039;o BAI, and to add one new cmavo to that selma&#039;o. A couple of additional words were independently proposed, for various reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since the cmavo list has NOT been baselined, the changes listed later in this issue are approved and now in force (although some of them are technically dependent on approval of the grammar baseline change). We provide the list on a separate page for people who wish to attach it to their cmavo lists. Alternatively (and probably preferably), you can manually update your copy of the cmavo lists to reflect these changes. No new publication of the cmavo list is expected prior to a preliminary baseline about 6 months before the dictionary is done. John Cowan is working on a catalog describing each selma&#039;o and its grammar, with examples of each usage; this will not be done for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lack of gismu-making - There were 20 gismu approved or proposed for making at last LogFest. We had commitments from several people to help with the source language look- up. Unfortunately, some of these people failed to come through. As a result, we have only partial input on Hindi source words and no input at all on Arabic sources. The other source language research has been ready for months. We are pursuing other alternate researchers, and ask any members of the community who know either language to volunteer your assistance either to suggest source words or check others work. (You should have a bilingual dictionary if you are not fluent in the language.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Because of this, the words have not been constructed, and we have downgraded the priority of producing a revised gismu list incorporating the new words and updated and clarified place structures for each word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Place structure review - In conjunction with the addition of words to the gismu list, we have been conducting a slow review of the place structure of every word in the gismu list. The review includes updates of Roget&#039;s Thesaurus categories for each word; Athelstan did a rough-cut at as- signing these categories while we were reviewing the list for baseline over 2 years ago. An effort is being made to ensure that place structures are consistent for words in the same Roget category.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can hardly imagine the difficulty of this review; it takes total mastery of the gismu list to do a comprehensive check, and only Bob has achieved that. Others are reviewing pieces of the list, and Bob is checking their suggestions. (All readers are encouraged to pose questions and suggestions about place structures, and these will be considered.) Of course Bob&#039;s higher priority is textbook writing, but the review must be completed before the textbook is done, since we don&#039;t want to have examples with inconsistent place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that place structures will be a long-evolving part of the language, and will not even be considered baselined at dictionary publication (though publication of a dictionary will inherently make changes much more difficult). This is because the place structures implicitly contain the meaning of the words, meanings that will never be static, and cannot truly be defined until there are significant numbers of language users.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, none of us who are speaking, writing, or translating in Lojban have been significantly hindered by nebulous place structures. We make the best guess we can, and use paraphrases if a listener doesn&#039;t understand, thus bypassing any confusion.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, we have demonstrated what we have often claimed, YOU DO NOT NEED TO MEMORIZE THE PLACE STRUCTURES TO USE LOJBAN. As you use the language, you will master them practically by osmosis, making mistakes and then learning from them. But mistakes are useful, too; they help us define the weak points in the place structures, and in some cases indicate that normal usage of a word differs from the place structure that we devised.&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu making errors of the past - As a side project, late at night or when he can&#039;t concentrate (seemingly much too often it seems), Bob has been going back through the computer outputs that generated the gismu 3 years ago, an extracting the scores and etymologies that led to the current word being chosen. The project is roughly half done.&lt;br /&gt;
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Along the way, unfortunate discoveries have occurred. In about 5% of the words, some type of manual error was made in the rush to compile the list. In half of these or so, the error is insignificant: an erroneous score or cross- reference error. In the rest, often due to Bob&#039;s sloppy handwriting or typos, the word recorded for a concept was not the highest scoring one. In most cases, the word actually selected differs by only one character from what it should be, but given the nature of the scoring algorithm, this sometimes leads to a significantly lower recognition score.&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, we screwed up sometimes. The result is not a severe problem, and changing the words wasn&#039;t even considered - the actual etymologies of individual words is simply not that important to any of Loglan&#039;s goals. The only requirement is for neutrality. Since the errors are small in number and fairly random, the only effect is a trivial increase in learning difficulty. And this increase is real only if the recognition scores used to decide on the words actually do correlate with learnability of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
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A more systematic error was found in our Lojban transcription of Russian words. Though the check has only been cursory, it appears that in several cases, we made mistakes in Lojbanizing the Russian vowels, which frequently change in sound depending on the declension, and on the syllable stress. As a result, the Russian con- tribution to some words will be incorrect, and learning for Russian students of Lojban presumably slightly more difficult. Again, though, the effect is not expected to be significant, and we have data that will allow us to accurately measure the effect, if any of this systematic error. (Lojbanization of Russian words inherently has systematic errors due to declensions that shift and sometimes omit sounds.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Once the computer lists have been verified, we will make the etymologies available in hard copy or electronic form. Data is being stored in Lojbanized phonetic spelling. We do not plan in the short term to publish a list showing the actual source words, primarily because we would need special text fonts and alphabets on our computers. However, a sample of the intermediate work appears in a later article this issue. This effort is a low priority one, though how much time we spend on it will partly depend on how much interest is shown by you readers.&lt;br /&gt;
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Computer Network Discussions - There have been numerous discussions of Lojban&#039;s design on the lojban-list computer mailing network, which now has over 100 readers. These are generally highly specialized discussions, and often rather long-winded, so we cannot even hope to summarize them here. Two major topics in the last couple of months have been the expression of intervals, the possible need for special tenses to describe relativistic situations, and the desire by some readers for a formal theory describing the seman- tics of the language. Discussions on these topics continue, and we are archiving everything that is said. If you have particular interest in one of these topics, let us know, and we may discuss it in more detail, or offer a special-order publication consisting of transcripts of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products Status, Prices, and Ordering ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no new products to announce this issue, although significant progress was made on several that will hopefully come to fruition within the next several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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A reminder that our pricing policy includes a 20% discount for a prepaid order over $20 (prepaid = positive balance exceeding the price at the time of shipment). There is a 20% surcharge for non-North-American orders; the 20% discount on large prepaid orders will cancel the overseas surcharge. The overseas surcharge may have to rise due to increased postal fees, but not until at least next issue. Virginia orders should add 4.5% sales tax. Note also that for software, there is no surcharge for MS- DOS 3 1/2&amp;quot; diskettes, but you must specify in your order if you want them.&lt;br /&gt;
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We cannot promise to fill an order unless it is prepaid; our finances remain too thin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook - One effort that has not made much progress has been the Lojban textbook. About 45 pages were done by LogFair in late October, but almost no work has been done since then. There are a lot of reasons for this, but in the final analysis Bob simply hasn&#039;t managed to treat this effort as the highest priority, as he and everyone else want. Too many short-term distractions and emergencies. If blame must be placed, most of us have some part in the delay; the final responsibility is, however, Bob&#039;s. Hopefully, things are improving in this regard.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFlash - The news on LogFlash is a good as the news on the textbook is bad. A version of LogFlash capable of handling the August cmavo list turned out to be almost trivial to produce. (This version is currently called LogFlash 3, but the set may be renumbered before publication). Bob has gone through all of the words using this program and is working in Maintenance mode at mastering the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile Nora has been working on the enhanced revision to LogFlash, which will handle the updated gismu list (with 100 character definitions instead of 40 character ones), and add a wide variety of new features, described in previ- ous issues. The program will also provide the capability to log data needed for research into the language learning process, including a test of Jim Brown&#039;s recognition score algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora&#039;s update is mostly complete, and the program is being tested by a couple of Lojban students, most notably Sylvia Rutiser, who has gone through the gismu list in only a few weeks and is working on her second pass.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The changes to support cmavo list learning with the new version are just as easy as for the old version, and Sylvia is also nearly through her first pass on the cmavo using this program. The results of using LogFlash have proven awesome when we sit down on Tuesday evenings to speak in the language. Bob and Sylvia only rarely need to look at a word list, while those who haven&#039;t studied the words spend a lot of time paging through the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope to have gismu list and cmavo list versions of LogFlash available by LogFest in June, or perhaps the next Ju&#039;i Lobypli issue thereafter. A rafsi list version will probably wait an additional few months; we have yet to receive any reports that anyone besides Bob and Nora have started studying the rafsi using the existing LogFlash 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of these updates are for PC-compatible MS-DOS machines. Dave Cortesi is working on an update to his Hypercard program equivalent for the MacIntosh; we have had no discussions with Richard Kennaway regarding an update to his MacIntosh version, since the Hypercard version, while a bit slower in execution speed, uses the Mac voice synthesizer function to provide spoken Lojban along with the flash cards. We expect Dave&#039;s program to be available at approximately the same time as the PC LogFlash version.&lt;br /&gt;
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Efforts to produce a UNIX C version of LogFlash appear to have stalled out, and given the closeness of the new PC version will likely be delayed until after it is complete. We get lots of volunteers to make this conversion (for UNIX and other machines), but few if any have ever produced anything. The new program is over 4000 lines of code and is non-trivial to convert. We are thus not planning to distribute the LogFlash source. Conversion volunteers should know both Turbo-Pascal and C and the problems in converting from the former to the latter. There is a lot of input/output processing, and the last (and most successful) conversion effort stalled out on con- verting this processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Parser - As noted above, John Cowan has started working on a Lojban parser which will reflect the baseline grammar. This much-awaited software will finally allow us to do the proper test of the grammar that is needed, as well as provide an excellent teaching tool to students of the lan- guage with appropriate computers. John expects to have the parser available for testing by LogFest in June. Priority for test copies will be for people with highly positive balances and those who have actually been writing in the language. General distribution will of course depend on how testing goes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Software - The random sentence generator update has been held up pending John Cowan&#039;s grammar change proposals, discussed elsewhere in this issue. David Bowen reports a simple equivalent program using the UNIX-based AWK language; write to us for details if interested. There have been no changes to the lujvo-making program, which may be integrated with the future version of LogFlash 2 (rafsi- teaching).&lt;br /&gt;
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Software Pricing - Software is the only product la lojbangirz. produces right now that we make any significant profit on. Thus, we need significant sales of these items to help cover all the people who aren&#039;t paying for our pro- ducts. Indeed, our financial troubles last year were no doubt in part due to very low software sales and our lack of new products in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of our financial situation, we cannot distribute our software for free. If we get more of you to pay for the printed matter, we can reconsider this, but no change is likely until well after textbook publication. We may continue to offer the old software more liberally, recognizing that it will be obsolete and much inferior to the new version. This will allow us to support those who can&#039;t afford to pay but want to learn the language, while providing significant value to our paying customers. Exceptions, if any, will be for people who perform volunteer efforts valuable enough that someone else donates money to cover the cost of their copy, or who demonstrate by trying to use the language that our support of their use of LogFlash will bring results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When the new versions of the program come out, there will be a substantial discount (at least 50%) for upgrades from people who have the program and a positive balance. People who have contributed money but do not have a positive bal- ance may receive a lesser discount. As always, prepaid orders over $20 will gain a 20% discount.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments on this policy are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Note that old versions of LogFlash are still available as Shareware on the Amrad BBS - see the introductory brochure for the telephone number. We would of course prefer that you register and pay for this software, getting the latest version, but have no complaint if those who cannot pay obtain the program in this way. We will pro- bably continue to offer a less-advanced Shareware version of LogFlash for the indefinite future, since the principle of mass distribution of language information is a fundamental one for la lojbangirz.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Postal Rates - The recent increase in US Postal Rates was between 15 and 20%. This amounts to 1-2 cents/page added to our production costs. This renders our temporary price increase of last summer necessarily permanent - it is not yet clear whether we are selling materials for more than we pay for them. If not, you can expect a price rise next issue, probably to 12 cents/page US/Canada and 15 cents/page overseas; we&#039;ll continue to absorb the slight difference between US and Canadian postage costs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are considering going to second-class mailing for Ju&#039;i Lobypli and/or le lojbo karni, though possibly not for a few months. For a relatively small cost difference, we would get better speed of delivery and more assurance that you will actually get the issue. Mailing in the same class as junk mail is risky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One requirement of second-class mailing is demonstration that most of our readership actually wants to receive the publication. The best way to prove this is with paid subscriptions, with explicit letters also valuable. Thus it is important that we hear from you regularly, preferably with money; at least once per year is very desirable.&lt;br /&gt;
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9-digit Zip - The new rates also come with new rules, though we aren&#039;t yet certain just what these rules are. It is possible that we will need to use Zip+4 9-digit codes on our US mailings to get optimal postage rates, and possibly even to get assured delivery. Thus, whenever you send us a change of address, please tell us the Zip+4 number as soon as you know it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rhyming Dictionaries - Michael Helsem announces availability of Lojban gismu rhyming dictionaries for prospective poets. Price $5 ea. Specify normal or half- rhyme versions. Send to Michael Helsem, 1031 DeWitt Circle Dallas TX 75224.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Logo - Surprisingly to me at least, there was a clear winner in the logo balloting from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #13. The selected logo was supposed to be on this issue; maybe next time. The winner, designed by Guy Garnett, received a large majority of positive votes among the 35-40 ballots received before the October deadline, and was first choice on many of them. In fact, only 5 ballots were marked as disliking the selection. Of these 5, 3 were in favor of the 2nd place finisher (a distant 2nd, but with far more &#039;likes&#039; than &#039;dislikes&#039;). This 2nd place logo, the in- tersecting planes design by Jamie Bechtel, apparently suffered some vote loss from being hand-drawn compared to Guy&#039;s polished computer-generated images. (Almost all negative votes on this design also voted against all other hand-drawn designs.) As a result, we intend to try this design on some publications as well, after computerizing it, and see what people think. Thus we have two logos, which were opposed by only 2 people among the voters.&lt;br /&gt;
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A couple of people sent in new designs after the ballot was produced, and I unfortunately missed one by Kerry Pearson in preparing the ballot. But we needed to have a final decision, and these will be the logos for at least the next few years.&lt;br /&gt;
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A few people voted for none of the selections, indicating a misunderstanding of the purpose of the logo &#039;contest&#039;. These people identified &amp;quot;logos&amp;quot; with commercialism, and wanted us to have a less commercial image. A couple suggested that instead we devise a &amp;quot;logo&amp;quot; that was more of a slogan, perhaps graphically displayed. This isn&#039;t practical for a few reasons:&lt;br /&gt;
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* the logo is intended to be a symbol and graphic images make better symbols than text, however it is displayed. &amp;quot;Logo&amp;quot; is a shortening of &amp;quot;logograph&amp;quot;, which more clearly indicates its purpose;&lt;br /&gt;
* among other places, the logo will probably be used on the textbook, where there will already be plenty of text (the title, subtitle, and the &#039;blurb on the back&#039;). The purpose of the logo is to leave a strong image that stands out against all that writing;&lt;br /&gt;
* there is a commercial purpose to the logo. It is a symbol for la lojbangirz. as well as, and possibly more than, for the language (this unfortunately may not have been in the minds of the designers and voters, but, oh well). While we are a non-profit organization, we must operate as a business, sending out correspondence, fund- raising letters, etc. The logo, printed by computer with our letterhead, will enhance the visual appearance of our business correspondence, calling attention to our letter. (At least this is how the theory goes.)&lt;br /&gt;
* a slogan in any language other than Lojban (such as English) would suggest a bias toward that language, and we are fighting hard to avoid such biases. If the text were in Lojban, non-Lojbanists (and some inactive supporters) wouldn&#039;t know what it means, making it a less meaningful symbol than the words might intend;&lt;br /&gt;
* we already have a Lojban slogan of a sort. Claude Van Horne coined &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot; a couple of years ago, and we have produced and distributed calligraphic buttons with that slogan as well as used it on many of our publications. We are of course interested in more Lojban slogans and aphorisms, but this requires you to make them up, and the issue is any case separate from the logo issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Electronic Distribution - We have had a committee non- working on a policy for electronic distribution of our materials since LogFest. For various reasons, the committee pretty much fell apart within a couple of weeks, and efforts to get the effort going again have so far been to no avail. Athelstan did write up his mini-lesson, which will be a centerpiece of the electronic material to be distributed; we hope this will be finalized for publication with JL15. Thereafter, all non-paying people above level 0 will have to demonstrate their interest by attempting to complete the exercises in the mini-lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
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There has been considerable debate about the extent of things to be distributed. Ju&#039;i Lobypli issues and the textbook are nearly impossible to put on-line, even with a file server, because so much of the text is formatted and relies on greater than 80-column lines. This issue, for example, is over 400K bytes of data. We are also reluctant to post non-baselined language description materials since we have no way to ensure that people eventually get updates when the baseline occurs. Word lists, the machine grammar, the brochure, and Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson are likely to be available initially. I won&#039;t promise a date for an electronic package because it is pretty much out of my hands as long as the committee exists; it is likely that the package will be available after LogFest in late June.&lt;br /&gt;
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Computer Network - With help from John Cowan and Keith Lynch and Eric Raymond (who supports lojban-list and John&#039;s and Bob&#039;s computer accounts), Lojban has been highly visible on the UNIX-oriented Usenet/Internet computer network, providing us with worldwide communications with our supporters, and highly successful recruiting. We have been especially visible in an electronic news/discussion group called &amp;quot;sci.lang&amp;quot;, which is a major focus for linguistics professionals, researchers, and students, worldwide. In particular, Lojban has come up as the principal topic of discussion during two periods of several weeks during the last 6 months. (Discussions in these groups tend to flow from topic to topic forming a highly intertwined set of &#039;threads of discussion&#039;, which eventually fade out as people turn to new topics that have caught their attention. Thus, Lojban has been mentioned several times in connection with several topics, but the &#039;thread&#039; caught people&#039;s attention twice in particular.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In the first instance, Lojban (and Loglan in general) came up as a result of a discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Hy- pothesis. John Cowan stepped into the discussion, and then Bob &#039;weighed in&#039; in response to some fairly critical challenges from linguists. Much to our pleasure, Lojban withstood this first challenge from the linguistic academic community, gaining respect from several people and a will- ingness on their part to see how the project develops scientifically.&lt;br /&gt;
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Given the disastrous history of Loglan&#039;s relationship with the academic community, this was welcome indeed. While attracting interest from several linguistic academics in the 1960&#039;s, the first publication of Loglan 1 drew a critical review from Professor Arnold Zwicky, in a 1969 is- sue of Language, one of the foremost linguistics journals. While this review was a friendly, constructive critique (this intent was confirmed in a recent letter exchange between Bob and Dr. Zwicky, now a leader in the field of language typology), Dr. Brown apparently took its challenges as highly negative.&lt;br /&gt;
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For whatever reason, the review went unanswered, and Loglan has suffered for 20 years as a result. The Institute&#039;s attempts to get funding from the National Science Foundation were rejected, with several peer reviewers citing the unanswered critique. Dr. Brown eventually gave up on the academic community and tried to &amp;quot;go commercial&amp;quot;, a disaster that led in turn to the financial and political quagmire that nearly killed Loglan in the 1980&#039;s before Bob and others started the Lojban effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now we&#039;ve again caught the interest of the academic community, and are taking measures to ensure that Loglan/Lojban is taken seriously and treated with respect. This first sci.lang discussion was the critical milestone. In the special section on Lojban and Linguistics below, John Cowan has done a superb effort at editing and condensing the non-linear discussion into what seems like a lively conversation, loaded with important ideas and detailed examples of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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John then followed up this discussion by re-examining the old Zwicky review. While it is far too late to directly answer the critique in Language, John drafted a response to the key challenges posed by Zwicky, demonstrating that the Lojban design fully meets Zwicky&#039;s challenge. This response is also printed in the special section below, and will shortly be posted to sci.lang.&lt;br /&gt;
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The second discussion stemmed from a comparative discussion of artificial languages, concentrating on Esperanto and Ido. Nick Nicholas, an Australian Esperantist, posted a Suzanne Vega song translated into several artificial languages (later added to by Ivan Derzhanski), whereupon Bob joined in with a Lojban version. These translations, and some associated discussion, appear in le lojbo se ciska in this issue. A few of the Lojban- related postings are also included, with more planned for next issue (since the discussion continues).&lt;br /&gt;
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We received several compliments for our direct support of discussions on the network. Loglan continues its trend as being the first &#039;successful&#039; artificial language to have its development process openly observed and participated in by the academic community.&lt;br /&gt;
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Both network discussions were quite productive in terms of recruiting - we&#039;ve added over 50 people as a result. Nick (a Greek native) and Ivan (a Bulgarian native) have both expressed interest in learning Lojban; Nick has expressed especial interest in joining our growing group of Lojban poets.&lt;br /&gt;
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ApaLingua, Tand and Factsheet Five - Lojban continues to appear on occasion in the amateur and alternative press. Mike Gunderloy reviews each of our issues in Factsheet Five, and a recent issue (incidentally the first one to mention Institute publications) gave us our largest crop of new Lojbanists yet, over a dozen. This, coupled with the sci.lang discussions and our continuing word-of-mouth spread led to almost 1 new person per day throughout the first two months of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
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An amateur publication on linguistics, a sort of printed sci.lang, has been started, and several Lojbanists are among the participants. ApaLingua is published bi-monthly, and consists of several pages written and submitted by each of the subscribers. Like the computer networks, each per- son poses new topics for discussion and responds to the writings of others. There were over 30 contributors at the time of the sample issue Bob received in November, and it was clear that the group would be expanding rapidly. la lojbangirz. intends to participate in ApaLingua, but at this point Bob has had too many irons in the fire, and has committed to making substantial progress on the textbook before adding this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tand, another amateur publication has had discussions of Lojban for the last 3 issues. The 3rd issue, appearing after JL13, included a lot of reader feedback, some positive and more negative. We&#039;ve pretty much decided to see where these discussions lead before responding further. Tand comes out infrequently, and the type of comments being raised are best answered by people looking at our publications to avoid our repeating (to editor Mark Manning&#039;s great distaste) large quantities of the same type of thing that appears here in JL.&lt;br /&gt;
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Evecon and Arisia - la lojbangirz. participated in this year&#039;s edition of Evecon, the largest science fiction convention here in the Washington DC area. Bob, Nora, and Athelstan gave several talks during the New Years weekend, and staffed a booth that provided information about Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile, Coranth D&#039;Gryphon attended Arisia, a February Boston area science fiction convention. Several new people signed up, making it the most successful convention recruiting effort yet among those not attended by Bob and Nora. Coranth is planning to follow this effort up with a class this spring taught through an MIT extension program.&lt;br /&gt;
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GURT - Bob and Athelstan are planning to attend the Georgetown University Round Table of Linguistics, an annual event of significant stature in the linguistics community. A focus of this year&#039;s meetings, the first week of April, is on language acquisition and education. We are planning to use these meetings to expand our contacts with members of the linguistic community, and move towards an examination by that community of the potential value for Lojban in linguistic research and language education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Trip: Will This One Happen? - Bob and Nora have been promising themselves a trip to California for two years now (Bob grew up in the San Francisco area), but it always seemed to be another 2 months away; there always seemed to be another deadline. THIS time we&#039;re a bit more optimistic, and are planning a late April trip to the Bay Area. We&#039;ll probably be able to come for a week and associated weekends. This one should really come off, since Nora&#039;s boss is encouraging her to take an April vacation. Occasional considerations of a side trip to Los Angeles and San Diego are being set aside; too many trips have been cancelled because of excess ambition (and Nora needs a REAL vacation). &lt;br /&gt;
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Our intent is to give several talks on Lojban while there, both to existing Lojbanists and to potential recruits. We want to meet as many of you as possible, so try to set aside a little time for us. We badly need volunteers to help us organize these meetings, and provide or locate places we can get together. Call Bob immediately - (703) 385-0273 - if you can help, given the short time frame. We will try to put out a notice by mail a week or two ahead of time indicating our itinerary. Since Bob has sisters in the Santa Cruz and mid-Peninsula areas, and close friends in Berkeley, these are definite stops for at least a night or two each.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan Finally Makes a Trip - After two trips in two years being cancelled at the last minute, Athelstan says he will not promise trips in advance again. As a result (so he suspects), things finally started going right. After over a year and a half with one car problem after another, he got his car mobile enough to make it out of the DC area. Indeed, he made it all the way to Salt Lake City, where he stayed a couple weeks with Lojbanist Diane Lehmann and got her started learning the language. (He then rebuilt his car as he drove home, having packed a spare part for everything and finding he needed most of those spares. ba&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
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Press Release - In February, following the legal victory discussed under Institute News below, la lojbangirz. put out its first press release. This news release, a copy of which appears after this news section, went to over 300 members of the business and scientific press. The response thus far has been small, but with the world situation as lively as it has been, we wouldn&#039;t expect to be an immediate priority. Also, since each response is likely to turn into a news or magazine story, a few responses will go a long way. &lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Canadian checks OK - After having three of them make it through our bank with no problem and no service charge, I am happy to tell our Canadian friends that we can accept checks in Canadian currency if it is difficult or expensive to get US currency checks. We deposit the check, and the bank then adjusts the deposit for the exchange rate about a week later, which seems to be within a few cents of the standard rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that for other countries, we can accept a check on your non-US bank in your currency, but there is a service charge of US$3.50. We can also accept Master Card and Visa balance contributions with a service charge of 6%. &lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan&#039;s European trip aborted - In JL13, we reported that there were last minute problems threatening to cancel Athelstan&#039;s planned trip to the Netherlands World Science Fiction convention, and then around several countries of Europe. The problems continued to grow, and Athelstan&#039;s then-dead car made it impossible for him to get around and solve them. So he didn&#039;t go. We are still hoping to have some Lojbanist make it to Europe in the next couple of years, but I think we&#039;re going to avoid promises until there is something definite. &lt;br /&gt;
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Non-North American Lojbanists and the Fund-raising Drive - The November fund raising letter did not go to our overseas friends. Except for US and Canada subscribers, the postage cost was too high for the potential gain. Instead, we are sending those people who were on the list in November a somewhat modified form of the letter, representing the slightly different circumstances and our more liberal policy in support of non-North American Lojbanists. Note that balances reflected in the letters do not include the price of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Simply put, for those JL subscribers with balances (in November when the letters were prepared) less than US$-30 who have never responded, we must hear from you by the next issue of JL in early May, or you will be dropped to level &#039;0&#039;. If you have responded, but not in the past year, we still want to hear from you, but can allow you support down to US$-50 before taking action to cut our losses. If your balance is below US$-50, we need to hear from you by the next JL issue, at minimum, to keep sending at this level.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideally, as many as possible will send some money, even if not enough to fully cover our costs. We&#039;re doing our best to subsidize non-US Lojbanists, but we need your help. Please respond.&lt;br /&gt;
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Non-English Materials - We now have French, Italian, and Esperanto translations of the &amp;quot;What is Lojban? la lojban. mo&amp;quot; brochure. The latter two are still only in the roughest of drafts, not even correctly typed in. We need volunteers to work with our translations, to polish them, to put them into computerized formats, and to add to the list of languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Trademark - The most significant news regarding The Loglan Institute, Inc. is that la lojbangirz. has won its challenge of TLI&#039;s trademark registration of the name &#039;Loglan&#039;. The decision was rendered in &#039;summary judgement&#039;; the issues were sufficiently clear-cut that there was no need for a trial. Following are excerpts from the decision. la lojbangirz. is &#039;Petitioner&#039; and The In- stitute is &#039;Respondent&#039;:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The facts of record clearly establish petitioner&#039;s genuine interest in the subject matter of the proceeding and support a reasonable belief that petitioner will be damaged by the continued existence of the registration sought to be cancelled...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;...both respondent and petitioner have filed documents evidencing use of the term LOGLAN as the generic name or the common descriptive name of a language developed by Dr. James Cooke Brown. Even Dr. Brown uses the term as the name of the language... There is apparently a community of persons interested in the development of the language who have conducted very active communications with one another and without exception they use the term Loglan to refer to the language, not as a trademark for the grammars and dictionaries which contain the words that make up, and information pertaining to, the construction of the language. ... In addition to the foregoing, we note that the Acronyms, Initialisms &amp;amp; Abbreviations Dictionary Ninth Edition, 1985-1986, lists the term, &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; and defines it as &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; ...&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... the evidence indicates that it was not until 1985 that respondent first expressed the view that LOGLAN was its trademark. ... Prior to that time, the term was used by Dr. Brown, respondent and others simply as the designation for the developing language, although it is reasonable to conclude that Dr. Brown and the Institute may have mistakenly believed that such use by others was with recognition of their purported proprietary rights.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;In view of the foregoing, it is our opinion that LOGLAN, being a generic term, does not function as a trademark for respondent&#039;s goods.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... petitioner&#039;s motion for summary judgement ... is granted as to the issue of the generic nature of the term LOGLAN. The petition for cancellation is granted and the registration will be cancelled in due course.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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We had filed on several other grounds, including fraudulent filing of the application for the trademark due to the several false statements therein and abandonment through failure to continually use the term as a trademark. The fraud claim was denied because we did not prove &amp;quot;fraud- ulent misconduct accompanied by some element of willfulness or bad faith&amp;quot;. The abandonment claim was declared moot since the term wasn&#039;t a valid trademark in the first place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lest there be any doubt, I/we have nothing personal against Dr. Brown. Indeed, we honor his genius in creating the language. We believe his policies have been mistaken and have as a result stultified the progress of the language, but this assertion didn&#039;t need a legal battle to be resolved. One only needs to observe the astounding relative success la lojbangirz. has had in promoting Loj- ban, which IS Loglan in every sense of the word, through our more liberal policies. (During the last three years, we have outgrown the Institute by a large measure in spite of the republication of Loglan 1 by TLI and several thousand dollars in advertising by TLI.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Institute can appeal the trademark decision, but such appeals historically have been considered frivolous, unless buoyed by significant new evidence. Since this decision was based on a matter of law, and sufficient facts to sup- port the decision were provided by The Institute on its own, possible bases for appeal are minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
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We thus consider the legal cloud on the language to be lifted. Threats of legal action by The Institute, originally against Bob and Jeff Prothero (before la lojbangirz. was incorporated), have been retracted or rendered invalid through this decision. People can use the name Loglan public-ally without fear of legal challenge; our success should cause TLI to have second thoughts before engaging in further legal harassment. The legal action was expensive (we intend NOT to pursue TLI for reimbursement of legal expenses, in the interest of ending the dispute), and it certainly has distracted Bob and others from more useful endeavors on behalf of the language (Bob may have put as much as 6 man-months into legal-related research that could have gone into textbook writing).&lt;br /&gt;
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The battle is over. It is time to move ahead, and to settle the war. Bob has written to Dr. Brown, proposing a settlement between our two efforts that would result in unity of the Loglan Project behind a Lojban recognized by Brown as a legitimate version of Loglan. The offer includes generous incentives towards unity that will en- hance Dr. Brown&#039;s influence and stature in the community, and aid TLI in performing the Loglan research for which it was originally founded. la lojbangirz. would be the principal interface with the community and the world, working to gain acceptance and support for the language. If accepted, Loglan would become the first major artificial language project to mend a split, giving us added credibility in convincing the world of Loglan&#039;s value. In addition, our combined resources would get more and better quality work accomplished in less time.&lt;br /&gt;
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We ask readers who have also supported The Institute to write to Dr. Brown and encourage him to move towards such a settlement.&lt;br /&gt;
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JCB&#039;s finances, TLI Fund-Raiser Fails - As a footnote to the legal decision, Dr. Brown reported in his latest Lognet newsletter that he suffered a serious personal financial setback. As a result, he no longer can financially support The Institute. Indeed, he had to take a large portion of the Institute&#039;s recent income to pay himself back in preference to using that money to further promote his version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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This setback was coupled with a fund raising drive that coincidentally occurred at about the same time as our own. Dr. Brown sought donations sufficient to pay for another Scientific American advertisement, a cost of $3500. Apparently, less than half that amount was raised. This is probably a good thing for TLI, since Dr. Brown projected a gain of perhaps 150 new people from this advertising, an expense of over $20 per person - as much as the price of the book he is selling.&lt;br /&gt;
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We note that several of the large donors Dr. Brown listed contributed comparable amounts in our own fund raising drive. We did raise the $3500 and more in our effort, and are putting it towards producing more and better information about the language. Bob and Nora, and other major contributors, have made donations rather than loans. As a result, la lojbangirz. is relatively debt-free (we technically owe our subscribers their balances, and Bob, Nora, and Jeff Prothero have pledged donations against the legal debt). Dr. Brown meanwhile claims an enormous financial debt from the Institute (over $35,000 prior to la lojbangirz.&#039;s founding).&lt;br /&gt;
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TL to be revived? - The Institute has been trying to improve on its accomplishments. Several months ago, it announced that The Loglanist, its old journal somewhat comparable to Ju&#039;i Lobypli, was going to be revived under a new name starting in December 1990. This didn&#039;t happen. A specific editor was named in the first 1991 LogNet, but we have no further word on what is planned.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Major Revision to Institute Loglan? - We have mentioned previously (and lambasted) a proposal to devise a series of &#039;declensions&#039; for each gismu in Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Arguments in favor and opposing this revision have appeared in each issue of Lognet for the past year, with Dr. Brown sounding alternatively supportive and skeptical of the proposal; Bob McIvor, who proposed it, is the other member of &#039;The Loglan Academy&#039; that approves changes to Institute Loglan. Dr. Brown has indicated that a decision is expected this spring.&lt;br /&gt;
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Interestingly, Dr. Brown claims that the Loglan engineering effort is complete, even while contemplating such major changes as this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Shareware? - The last issue of TLI&#039;s Lognet surprised Bob with a minor note in response to a letter. The letter suggested that TLI software be distributed as &#039;Shareware&#039;, and Dr. Brown indicated that the idea would be considered. Bob&#039;s and Nora&#039;s intention to distribute LogFlash as Share- ware triggered the intellectual property disputes that caused the current rift. While Shareware software can technically preserve copyrights, it causes those copyrights to be of minimal financial value, since Shareware is freely copyable. Is The Institute about to make a landmark change in its policy? We&#039;ll be watching.&lt;br /&gt;
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== A Survey of Lojban Applications ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Last issue, we gave a rather thorough progress report on the language development progress, and we provide updates on that status each issue. A couple of people have pointed out that we haven&#039;t provided comparable information on other aspects of the language - how Loglan/Lojban will be used. On our registration forms, we ask you to indicate one or more of several reasons for your interest in the language, and we have been remiss in not addressing those areas directly in these pages.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a reason for this, of course. Nearly all of the productive work being done is going towards the language development process. That phase is wrapping up, and people are slowly starting to use the language. As a result we can expect the other areas of interest to flower as more people learn the language. Meanwhile, we try to focus on the other areas one at a time, to keep people thinking about them.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is probably all that can really be done at this point. Until we have a community of fluent speakers, Lojban will lack credibility among professionals in several of the interest areas. Moreover, we will have trouble raising funds through grants and contracts that would greatly advance our capabilities in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, it is worthwhile to have a brief review of each area. Following is a summary, from Bob&#039;s perspective, of each area:&lt;br /&gt;
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The Language Development Process - Of course, we have reported on specific achievements in the language development as they have occurred. In JL13, we surveyed where the language development process stood with regard to individual areas of the design. There is a broader picture, though, that might be missed in looking too closely.&lt;br /&gt;
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Loglan has been the most public language development project in terms of public knowledge of the decisions being made and input into the decision-making itself. Indeed, it was this public involvement that led to the big political squabbles of the last decade. People who have been involved in the language development feel that the language is theirs.&lt;br /&gt;
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A side-effect of such a political dispute has been quite positive; we have pretty much isolated the politics of the &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; from the language development process itself. The community understands that it is listened to by those who make day-to-day design decisions. This has allowed the process to proceed by consensus; there have been few non- unanimous decisions during the development process.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideas and proposals are talked out thoroughly if proposed. A recent discussion of relativistic tenses on the computer mailing list overflowed every reader&#039;s mailbox with dozens of pages of discussion. The discussion continues, and is far from a consensus; no change is being made. Meanwhile, the several dozen minor cmavo changes and grammar changes have so far attracted minimal comment (and they can hardly be more abstruse than the interaction of light-cones at relativistic speeds). They are expected to be adopted by consensus.&lt;br /&gt;
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The extent of the Loglan development process has had a second effect, also a benefit. There have been few splinter efforts. Lojban itself is one; the splinter has become the mainstream. The Institute version of the language is ever-changing, and drawing small numbers in spite of massive advertising and a completed book. Jim Carter&#039;s language project remains essentially a one-person effort, and Jim himself remains a Lojban supporter. Meanwhile la lojbangirz. grows at an ever-accelerating rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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An effect of the dozens of person-years of work put into Loglan/Lojban is that it has become a new standard in artificial language development. Most previous artificial languages have been predominantly the result of one person&#039;s work. But, now, no individual language inventor can hope to put as much work into a language design as we all have. Barring some major new insight into the nature of language, any future language development project hoping to improve upon Lojban would likely require several people working together, and most likely will build on the work we and others have done rather than start anew.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that this is as it should be. The Library of Congress has dozens of books about one-man languages that never went anywhere. Language is by its nature a commu- nicative process between people with varying experience. One person cannot simultaneously test speakability and understandability, and viable languages must exhibit both virtues across the full range of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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A final aspect of the publicness of the language development is the emphasis on keeping a record of what we have done. An enormous archive is being built and maintained on this development effort. Whether any particular version of Loglan survives and prospers, those who come later will see what we have done and be able to learn from it. Among artificial languages, only Esperanto has any significant historical record of the language before it blossomed into public knowledge, and that record is sparse compared to the Loglan/Lojban record.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other feature of the language development process worthy of comment is our reliance on keeping abreast of the field of linguistics, gathering as much information is possible on what has been learned about human language before claiming to have invented a language that can serve as a human language. This serves us well in &#039;selling Lojban&#039; to both language learners and linguistics researchers, making the other goals of the language more achievable. &lt;br /&gt;
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Machine Translation and Computer Applications - The major bases of computer scientists&#039; interest in Lojban stem from the potential computer applications of the language, of which machine translation of natural language is the most well-known. A large portion of the Lojban community, perhaps as much as 50%, are people working in the broad area of computer science, if not specifically in artificial intelligence, computer language design, machine translation, or any of the several fields where Lojban applications may develop.&lt;br /&gt;
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Work on these applications is still predominantly at the concept stage, for two major reasons. First is that the language development is not fully baselined, and computer application developers avoid as much as possible trying to hit a moving target. When that baseline occurs, and if the language has achieved credibility as a human language, the second obstacle can be challenged. That obstacle is, of course, money. Most useful computer applications will take several person-years of development, requiring work from people used to fairly high salaries. Some might work on small efforts as a hobby, but we cannot expect these efforts to bear fruit, though they might serve as a seed for some future effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Getting the first financial support for Loglan applications will be difficult; Dr. Brown made one brief attempt in the late 1970&#039;s that was ignored. la lojbangirz. is taking a more systematic approach, building credibility and being aware of other research where Lojban may prove a useful adjunct. We also have been building awareness of our effort in the computer science community. When Lojban development is complete, we will have the ideas, the language, the contacts, and hopefully the credibility, to convince some research grant source to commit a large sum of money to pursue these applications.&lt;br /&gt;
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Until then, we need to exchange ideas. Patrick Juola wrote on Lojban and machine translation back in JL8, and JL9 discussed the closely related area of Lojban as a mathematics and science interlingua. Sheldon Linker has thought about the design of a heuristic learning and con- versation program (something like the HAL 9000 computer of 2001 - A Space Odyssey). Art Wieners has been pursuing similar ideas, and has done experimental work on the software needed to recognize Lojban words. Of course, the YACC grammar for Lojban enhances this line of research, and John Cowan&#039;s parser, coupled with Jeff Taylor and Jeff Prothero&#039;s earlier work, may provide the capability to go from individual speech sounds (phonemes) to fully analyzed text structure within a few months.&lt;br /&gt;
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One area we would like to pursue is the current research being done in teaching computers &#039;common-sense&#039;. Some researchers are not too far from getting computers to understand a large subset of English. The simpler, more regular grammar of Lojban should make the computer processing for language structure much lighter, allowing more effort to go into &#039;understanding&#039; of language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob, as editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, would like to encourage more computer scientists to write brief outlines of their ideas for Lojban for the benefit of JL readers. These seeds, planted today, may become grant proposals tomorrow.&lt;br /&gt;
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International Language - JL11 and JL13 have contained significant discussion of the oft-made comparisons between Loglan and Esperanto, and this issue hopefully brings those discussions to a conclusion. As the computer network discussions excerpted later in this issue demonstrate, the topic has not been limited to this journal. The topic has been thoroughly addressed, but let&#039;s summarize the key elements of the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will first cover the question of Lojban as an common language in certain specialized domains, such as mathematics, international law, etc. The arguments with Esperantists in these pages and elsewhere have not addressed these questions. Each language brings its own advantages to the problem. Esperanto brings its culture, demonstrated speaker base, and (surprisingly as an &#039;advantage&#039;) its European structure and vocabulary. When well over 90% of the published material in the world is written in a European language, and most of that in English, Loglan&#039;s non-European grammar is NOT an advantage. Loglan&#039;s advantages are that its grammar is unambiguous, that machine translation was considered in making design decisions, and that it is likely to be seen less as a &amp;quot;colonial&amp;quot; (=European) language to Third World populations.&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t clear what parameters could be used to decide what &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;best&amp;quot;. Esperanto has a large number of speakers, an established community, culture, and literature, and considerable recognition outside its own speaker base as &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; international language. On the other hand, many Esperantists admit that the language has flaws, and that other languages invented since have remedied some of these flaws (usually while introducing new ones that are equally severe); they contend however, that the entire set of flaws in the language are more than made up by the 100 years of language experience that has been acquired.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, Bob, agree with this position. Esperanto is presently in good standing as the prime candidate among artificial languages. Under the best of circumstances for us, Lojban will not legitimately contest this standing for at least a generation, because it will take at least that long for Lojban to build a literature, culture, etc. It may not happen even then.&lt;br /&gt;
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It remains to be proven whether any artificial language, or any single language at all can serve the needs of a &amp;quot;world language&amp;quot;. I doubt that most people really know what such a language would entail. Those who raise the claim of English as such a language, for example, forget that English is not a single language. Only in rigid, formal, written text like scientific writing is there enough standardization that various English dialects are mutually intelligible to the degree required by an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot;. I can note that, even there, one can find lapses. Last year, I read a technical book on lexicography, the science of dictionary-making, written by a Czech linguist under the auspices of the United Nations, and translated with his help into English. Portions were only barely intelligible. Yet it was clear that the author did have considerable command of idiomatic English, and Czech is a European language, presumably closer to English than most non-European ones. And this was written by a linguist who specializes in writing dictionaries of other languages, and therefore highly aware of the difficulties in international communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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I contend that colloquial or conversational communication will be much more difficult to unify under the auspices of an &#039;international language&#039;. This is because the problem is NOT a lack of a common language, but a lack of educa- tion. Education starts with the ability to read and write your own native language fluently - who could justify asking someone to learn to read a second language when they cannot read their own - and how would you teach them. But a large portion of the world&#039;s population, probably a majority, is totally illiterate, and others are only semi- literate. How dare we as Loglanists expect to teach them predicate logic or even relativistic tenses!&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t necessary to learn to read and write in order to learn a language, but all international language proposals have been predominantly targeted at the educated speaker, and teaching materials and methods generally require ability to read and write as well as some understanding about the formal rules of your native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not damn the illiterate. The supposedly literate societies are just as bad as targets for an international language. How much of the recent turmoil in the Middle East has been due to the fact that Westerners, especially Americans, do not understand Arabic culture, much less the Arabic language? The journalists seemed to consider it a major discovery that &amp;quot;mother of all battles&amp;quot;, conveyed to us as a grandiose pomposity by Saddam Hussein, was merely the literal English translation of a rather natural Arabic way of saying &amp;quot;big battle&amp;quot;. Translate the phrase literally into Esperanto or Lojban and it would still convey misleading ideas - you cannot translate idiom literally without error. You may not be able to translate non-idiom literally, either - imagine the misunderstanding of an translation that results in using the traditional meaning of &amp;quot;gay&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us say that it is agreed that there will be an international language (not as universally agreed as many enthusiasts might want to believe), the language must be chosen. Then the method(s) of teaching the language must be developed, methods on a scale large enough to overcome differences of education, and access to materials. If only the most educated members of a society are taught to speak an international language, the only &amp;quot;achievement&amp;quot; is a class system with walls virtually impossible to surmount. (Of course, motivating a farmer who never runs into foreigners to learn an international language may be difficult. But if she/he doesn&#039;t learn the language, his/her children will be severely handicapped in joining the internationally-connected &#039;upper-class&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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If a language is chosen, it should probably be an artificial one, and Esperanto is by far the leading candidate. Indeed, with the exception of Lojban (which has major goals independent of the international language question to drive it), there are no other meaningful candidates. The other artificial languages of the world simply do not offer anything to justify their selection.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why? Because other candidates have little to offer besides some aesthetic purity of design, and a purported claim that they are &#039;easier to learn&#039; than Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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But questions of which artificial language is most &amp;quot;easy to learn&amp;quot; are red herrings that settle nothing. Indeed, close examination tends to reveal that artificial languages theoretically are no easier to learn than natural languages - I&#039;ve heard no claim that the few children who are Es- peranto &#039;native speakers&#039; because they are raised in a household where Esperanto is spoken, learn their language any faster than an English-native speaker learns English.&lt;br /&gt;
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For second-language learning, too much depends on student background, motivation, and method. There are as many theories of the &amp;quot;best&amp;quot; way to teach a language as there are researchers; yet they give approximately similar results when tested against real students. How could non-spe- cialists be better able to judge fine distinctions as to which language is easier to teach, or to learn?&lt;br /&gt;
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The methodology and the goal are more important than the language. Esperanto vocabulary may be easier for an English speaker to learn, but if this merely leads to English-native Esperantists that speak an encoded English idiom, why bother? They have not learned an international language, because non-English speakers will fail to under- stand the idiom. (When Lojbanists speak encoded idiom, it stands out so starkly that &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; is one of the first words a practicing Lojbanist learns.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A quote from Andrew Large&#039;s The Artificial Language Movement may help set a perspective. Large cites a President of the international Esperanto organization UEA, as giving the following as an estimate of Esperanto&#039;s ease of learning:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... Professor Lapenna offered a reasonable estimate of two or three hours per week for a year in order to acquire &amp;quot;a solid groundwork of knowledge of Esperanto&#039;s grammatical structure and of five hundred or so selected roots, from which the language&#039;s agglutinative structure enables one to derive some five thousand words.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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This sounds far easier than learning a natural language (about the equivalent of a 1 semester, 3 credit class, spread over a full year), but the comparison with natural language is only relevant if someone is choosing between learning a second natural language and Esperanto. The choice is seldom that simple - except for mandatory school requirements, most people learn a language because they intend to use it. People who seriously study a second natural language spend far more than a couple hours a week in study for a year (or longer) if they want to achieve competence in that language; Lapenna&#039;s estimate is only a hobbyist level-of-effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Serious students with serious goals in language competence study much more intensely, and achieve much better results than Lapenna claims. I learned the Lojban gismu list, 1300 words easily giving millions if not billions of agglutinative compounds, in 3 months of a bit more than an hour a day - perhaps half of Lapenna&#039;s total time estimate at twice the intensity - yet I don&#039;t claim the Lojban vocabulary is as easy to learn for English speakers as Esperanto&#039;s cognates. The advantage was due to more intense effort, interest, and a teaching method especially effective at vocabulary instruction. (At such a higher level of effort, Esperanto students might learn a few more roots due to the cognate recognition factor, but not all that many more.)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, if the claim is that Esperanto, or any artificial language, is easier to learn than a natural language at a hobbyist level of effort, I would never contest this. But that level of effort gives insufficient rewards in terms of achievement and understanding to sustain the motivation of the average person.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll claim, by the way, that vocabulary learning is the major factor in achieving the kind of language skill Lapenna is talking about, at least in an artificial language. Elsewhere in the same discussion, Large notes that a few hours of study are all that it takes to understand the basics of Esperanto&#039;s grammar. We can make the same claim about Lojban. But grammar is not the critical factor. (In natural languages, it is idiom, and other exceptions to the standard grammar, that makes a language time consuming to master.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Returning specifically to Lojban, as an international language candidate. The essential first requirement is that Lojban be demonstrated as truly viable as a language, among several different native-language populations. This will not be easy. Lojban is not yet spoken by any non-na- tive-English speaker, and the few in that category that are studying the language must obviously know English to learn Lojban, since we have no materials beyond our brochure in any foreign language. We must develop fluent Lojbanists who also are fluent in other languages in order to get these materials. (Silvia Romanelli reported working on translating the draft textbook lessons into Italian a year ago, but we do not know her current status.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is likely to be the first non-English language that we have substantial Lojban teaching materials in, simply because it is the most commonly spoken non-English language in the community (and the largest audience of people immediately likely to be interested in learning an- other artificial language for any purpose).&lt;br /&gt;
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The politics of choosing an international language favor Esperanto, or even English, by far over Lojban. There is little to be done in this arena other than to survive and grow as a language. This takes speakers and money, and for the near future we will have to concentrate on English speakers, while trying to constantly reach out to natives of other languages. The English-speaking market is the hardest one though; English predominance as an international means of communication means that there is lower motivation among English speakers to learn other languages - and motivation and effort, as I said above, are everything. Even Esperanto has made few inroads in the English-speaking market (ELNA, the North American Esperanto organization, has only around 1000 members, only a few times the effective size of la lojbangirz.) la lojbangirz. can gain enormous credibility if we can motivate Americans and other English-speakers to learn a candidate international language. We have an advantage, being centered in the United States, and should use that advantage.&lt;br /&gt;
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It won&#039;t be easy, though. Most Americans never learn to speak a foreign language at even a minimal level (Europeans, including the British are apparently much better in this regard; Canadians are almost certainly exposed to French to some considerable degree; I have no knowledge of foreign language education in other English- speaking countries). If a Southern Californian (I lived there 9 years), faced with almost a majority of native Spanish-speaking neighbors, can avoid learning Spanish fluently, much less minimally, what will make her/him learn Lojban. It won&#039;t be ease of learning. It must be motivation and education. People must come to believe that understanding the ideas of those of different cultures is important.&lt;br /&gt;
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The international language movement must be a movement of education. Lojban&#039;s contribution to that movement will therefore not be as a competitor with Esperanto, but as a tool of education, used in cooperation with Esperantists, and all others who seek to improve the world&#039;s lot through education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Intercultural Communications/Studies - This is often the goal of those supporting international languages: a means to understand other cultures. Ease of learning is not the most important factor here, cultural neutrality is far more important.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve put a lot of effort during the last year to ensure that Lojban has incorporated the means to express the ideas of different cultures with equal ease. Language typology, the study of universals that all languages have in common, and the differences that make each language unique, is a study that is finally gaining significant progress. From this work, we can see what linguistic features Lojban needs to succeed as a language, and what features it must emulate in order to successfully model other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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In particular, I&#039;ve concentrated on a book, The World&#039;s Major Languages, edited by B. Comrie. This book surveys several dozen languages in considerable detail, both European and non-European. After 6 months of steady plowing, I can report that Lojban has the capability of conveying the essence of each of the idiosyncratic structures I found, though sometimes in unusual ways. For example, the &#039;topic construction&#039; of Japanese turns out to be nicely modelled by Lojban&#039;s prenex construction, designed for certain logical expressions. The Chinese sentences used as examples can often be conveyed in Lojban as very elaborate tanru. It is clear to me that, if the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is true, then Lojban&#039;s ability to model the structures of the world&#039;s languages will lead to a corresponding ability to understand the cultures that use those languages. Time will surely tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s value in understanding other cultures is enhanced by the requirement to thoroughly think about what you wish to say in culture-free terms in order to express it in Lojban, with its drastically different structures. The translations of a Suzanne Vega song lyric into several artificial languages in le lojbo se ciska, and my commentary, may be more revealing than a lot of words here. It took me a couple of hours to do the Lojban translation, not because anything therein was hard to say in Lojban, but it took time to figure out just what the author was trying to say (and I&#039;m a native English speaker).&lt;br /&gt;
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Expressing cultural ideas in Lojban for the benefit of those in other cultures, will be slow and at times cumbersome, especially for those not fluent in the language. But the problem is not trivial, and a little deliberation may be a good sign rather than a bad one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Language Education - Half of language education for natural languages (or even more) is understanding the culture of the target language, since so much of the natural idiom of a language is tied to various cultural metaphors. Thus everything mentioned in the last section provides a benefit for Lojban as a medium for learning other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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I noted above that linguists have determined no optimal method for teaching languages. A survey I&#039;ve done of both traditional and innovative teaching methods indicates that each method has advantages and disadvantages; they will work for some students and not for others.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have found the same thing with LogFlash, our superb vocabulary teaching method. Both Nora and I have learned the Lojban vocabulary with what we saw as incredible ease, and more important, with incredible staying power - we don&#039;t forget what we have learned. But the method requires the student to use the program for about 2-3 months at an hour a day, with major interruptions causing a significant delay in mastery of the language. We&#039;re working on improvements with the next version of the program that will minimize the effect of interruption or lesser time spent, but the bottom line is that the method requires a commitment to regular use - it takes a certain number of hours to learn a certain amount of vocabulary. Someone who doesn&#039;t spend that time, regularly for 3 months, will have less success. People who need a variety of activities to maintain their interest may find LogFlash&#039;s monotonous, if effective, drills beyond their tolerance (unless they spend additional time above and beyond LogFlash study in other Lojbanic activities).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban, however, offers an excellent laboratory for experimenting with new methods in language education, and the techniques we have developed as amateurs have already proven effective for people trying to learn other languages. Darren Stalder, now studying Japanese, reports that studying Lojban gave him an awareness of the lin- guistic features of how words sound (phonology) that has greatly enhanced his learning of Japanese. He understands the rules for pronouncing the language, but also better understands why the rules hold, allowing him to better remember the rules when they apply as well as to extrapo- late when the rules do not explicitly cover the situation. Sylvia Rutiser has also been working with Japanese, trying to use the LogFlash flash card techniques to learn the Japanese writing system.&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that language education may be one of the areas where Lojban first scores a breakthrough that attracts attention from those not directly interested in the language itself. When the textbook is complete, I will be seeking funding to pursue the study of Lojban as a tech- nique of language education. In the meantime, I&#039;ll be listening carefully at the relevant discussions at the Georgetown Round Table meetings on this subject in April.&lt;br /&gt;
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Linguistics Research - Much of the rest of this issue addresses the subject of Lojban and the linguistics community, so I won&#039;t spend much space here. As that discussion will show, the concept of using Lojban to study creolization processes (how languages evolve in contact with other languages) is a new idea that should have significant credibility. Unlike a comparable study based on a natural language, studying the creolization of Lojban gains the benefit of a clear statement as to what the language is before the start of such an evolutionary process, thus allowing changes to be more easily observed and measured.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most attention regarding Loglan linguistics research has been with regard to testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, the original goal and primary ideal of some supporters of the language. JL6 and JL7 discussed this topic considerably, and there has been more discussion since then, including some in the computer network material in this issue. However, a Sapir-Whorf test may take decades to plan and conduct, and may be unconvincing to some even if successful.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus far more important to Lojban&#039;s future in linguistics research, and its credibility among linguists, is that Loglan/Lojban be proven useful for studying other aspects of language. We are lucky in this. Dr. Brown, in inventing the language, envisioned and designed it to serve as a &#039;test bed&#039; for language experimentation, having a minimum of features that might detract from the ability for later linguists to use Loglan as a tool to learn. We believe that the Lojban designers have stuck to this principle, and even enhanced it, in the last few years. What remains is to convince the linguists that we are correct.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us turn now to the first step in making the linguistic case for Lojban, the response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 critique of Loglan. We will then follow with other aspects of Lojban&#039;s application, especially as discussed on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review of Loglan 1 Loglan and Lojban: A Linguist&#039;s Questions And An Amateur&#039;s Answers ==&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan (ci&#039;a la djan. kau,n.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Internet address: cowan@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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The following questions about Loglan are based on a 1969 review by Arnold M. Zwicky of James Cooke Brown&#039;s 1966 edition of Loglan 1. Although basically friendly, Zwicky&#039;s review raises a large number of linguistic objections to Loglan as it existed in 1966. The review represents the only formal notice the linguistics community has ever taken of the Loglan Project. Unfortunately, the Project has never made any reply.&lt;br /&gt;
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The answers that appear here reflect the perspective of Lojban (not Institute Loglan) as it exists in 1991. Therefore, no attempts have been made to sort out Zwicky&#039;s misunderstandings of Brown&#039;s text, Brown&#039;s misunderstandings (or mistakes in writing) about his own language, valid points as of 1969 that were later changed by Brown, and valid points as of 1969 that were changed when (or since) Lojban split from Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Throughout, &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; refers to 1966 Loglan as seen by Zwicky, and &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; to 1991 Lojban as seen by me. The word &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; is derived from the same metaphor as &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) but using Lojban words (&amp;quot;logji bangu&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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As the title indicates, I am only an amateur (lit. &amp;quot;lover&amp;quot;) of linguistics, and I may misinterpret some of Zwicky&#039;s points. The question-and-answer format used here is purely for expository convenience. Zwicky is not responsible for the form of the questions, which reflect only my interpretations of his points, except for quoted text within the questions followed by (Z), which are quotations from Zwicky&#039;s original review. That review was published in Language 45:2 (1969), pp. 444-457.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. Lojban sentences do not have unique interpretations; how can Lojban be said to be unambiguous?&lt;br /&gt;
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The sense in which Lojban is said to be unambiguous is not a simple one, and some amplification of the fundamental claim is necessary. Ambiguity is judged on four levels: the phonological-graphical, the morphological, the syntactic, and the semantic.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is audio-visually isomorphic: the writing system has a grapheme for every phoneme and vice versa, and there are no supra-segmental phonemes (such as tones or pitch) which are not represented in the writing system. Lojban&#039;s phonology contains significant pauses that affect word boundaries, and allows pauses between any two words. The optional written representation for pause is a period, although pauses can be unambiguously identified in written text from the morphological rules alone. Lojban also uses stress significantly, and again there is a written representation (capitalization of the affected vowel or syllable), which is omitted in most text, where the morphological default of penultimate stress applies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is morphologically unambiguous in two senses: a string of phonemes (including explicit pause and stress information) can be broken up into words in only one way, and each compound word can be converted to and from an equivalent phrase in only one way.&lt;br /&gt;
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The syntactic unambiguity of Lojban has been established by the use of a LALR(1) parser generator which, in cooperation with a series of simple pre-parser operations, produces a unique parse for every Lojban text. In addition, the existence of a defined &#039;phrase structure rule&#039; grammar underlying the language (and tested via the parser generator) guarantees that there are no sentences where distinct deep structures generate isomorphic surface structures. On the other hand, Lojban does have transformations, although they are not explicit in the machine grammar: there are distinct surface structures which have the same semantics, and therefore reflect the same underlying deep structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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The claim for semantic unambiguity is a limited one only. Lojban contains several constructs which are explicitly ambiguous semantically. The most important of these are Lojban tanru (so-called &#039;metaphors&#039;) and Lojban names. Names are ambiguous in almost any language, and Lojban is no better; a name simply must be resolved in context, and the only final authority for the meaning of a name is the user of the name. tanru are further discussed in later replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. If the meaning of a particular tanru cannot be completely understood from understanding the component parts, a separate dictionary entry is needed for every possible tanru, making the Lojban dictionary infinitely long. How can this be avoided?&lt;br /&gt;
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tanru are binary combinations of predicates, such that the second predicate is the &#039;head&#039; and the first predicate is a modifier for that head. The meaning of the tanru is the meaning of its head, with the additional information that there is some unspecified relationship between the head and the modifier. tanru are the basis of compound words in Lojban. However, a compound word has a single defined meaning whereas the meaning of a tanru is explicitly ambiguous. Lojban tanru are not as free as English figures of speech; they are &#039;analytic&#039;, meaning that the components of the tanru do not themselves assume a figurative sense. Only the connection between them is unstated.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most of the constructs of Lojban are semantically unambiguous, and there are semantically unambiguous ways (such as with relative clauses) to paraphrase the meaning of any tanru. For example, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;plastic-cat&amp;quot;) might be paraphrased in ways that translate to &amp;quot;cat that is made from plastic&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;cat which eats plastic&amp;quot; or various other interpretations, just as in English. However, the single (compound) word derived from this tanru, &amp;quot;slasymlatu&amp;quot;, has exactly one meaning from among the interpretations, which could be looked up in a dictionary (if someone had found the word useful enough to formally submit it). There is no law compelling the creation of such a word, however, and there is even an &#039;escape mechanism&#039; allowing a speaker to indicate that a particular instance of a &#039;nonce&#039; compound word is &#039;nonstandard&#039; (has not been checked against a dictionary or other standard), and may have a meaning based on an unusual interpretation of the underlying tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. The Loglan &#039;primitive words&#039; seem to have been chosen at random, without regard to any sort of semantic theory. Why was this done?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban content words are built up from a list of about 1300 root words (called &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;), which are not necessarily to be taken as semantically simple. Lojban does not claim to exhibit a complete and comprehensive semantic theory which hierarchically partitions the entire semantic space of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rather, the 1300-odd root words blanket semantic space, in the sense that everything human beings talk about can be built up using appropriate tanru. This claim is being tested in actual usage, and root words can still be added if necessary (after careful consideration) if genuine gaps are found. For the most part, the few gaps which are now recognized (about 20 words will be added soon) reflect the completing of semantic sets. It is no longer permitted for language users to create new gismu root words (in the standard form of the language, at least); newly coined words must fall recognizably outside the highly regulated gismu morphological space (a specific and separate morphological structure is reserved for coined words - usually borrowings - and a marker is available to indicate that a word is a &#039;nonce&#039; coinage rather than an established &#039;dictionary word&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s empirically derived word list is similar to that of Basic English, which replaces the whole English vocabulary with English-normal compounds built from about 800 root words. Lojban and Basic English both allow for the adoption of technical terms from other languages to cover things like plant and animal names, food names, and names of chemical compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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The unfortunate terms &amp;quot;primitive word&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;prim&amp;quot; formerly used by the Loglan Project suggested the notion that Lojban&#039;s set of gismu was meant to be a list of semantic primitives. This is not the case for Lojban, and the more neutral term &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot; was adopted recently to reduce confusion. Lojban predicate words, therefore, are now divided into gismu &#039;root words&#039;, lujvo &#039;compound words&#039; and le&#039;avla &#039;borrowings&#039; (lit. &#039;taken words&#039;). (Brown did originally select some words as &#039;semantic primitives&#039;; however, he later added words with no claim that the addi- tions were &#039;primitive&#039; in the same sense).&lt;br /&gt;
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4. Some tanru seem poorly designed and not in keeping with expressed standards. Also, tanru like &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot;, analogous to English &amp;quot;girls&#039; school&amp;quot;, are so open-ended in sense that there is no way to block such far-fetched interpretations as &amp;quot;a school intended to train girls between the ages of 6 and 10 to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, which is patently absurd. What is the proper interpretation of tanru?&lt;br /&gt;
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In the early part of the Loglan Project, poor tanru were regrettably common. In particular, it was common for tanru to be calques on English expressions, such as &amp;quot;beautiful type of small&amp;quot; for English &amp;quot;pretty small&amp;quot;. Many tanru employed the primitive for &amp;quot;make&amp;quot;&#039; (in the sense &amp;quot;make from materials&amp;quot;) where &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; would have been more appropriate (e.g. &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;dead-make&amp;quot;). Many years worth of effort since then have gone into removing such malglico (&#039;derogatively English&#039;) tanru from Lojban texts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tanru &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;girl type of school&amp;quot;) cannot mean, out of context, &amp;quot;school intended to train girls between 6 and 10 years of age to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, although if such a school existed it could certainly be called a nixli ckule. This interpretation can be rejected as implausible because it involves additional restrictive information. The undefined relationship between &amp;quot;nixli&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ckule&amp;quot; cannot drag in additional information &#039;by the hair&#039;, as it were. Instead, this intricate interpretation would require a larger tanru incorporating nixli ckule as one of its components, or else a non-tanru construct, probably involving a Lojban relative clause. As a comparison, such interpretations as &amp;quot;school containing girls&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;school whose students are girls&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;school to train persons to behave like girls&amp;quot; are plausible with minimal context because these renderings do not involve ad- ditional restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. Lojban claims to be unambiguous, but many constructs have vague meanings, and the meanings of the primitives themselves are extremely poorly specified. On the other hand, Lojban forces precision on speakers where it is not wanted and where natural-language speakers can easily avoid it. Is this appropriate to a culturally neutral, unambiguous language?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s avoidance of ambiguity does not mean an avoidance of vagueness. A Lojban aphorism states that the price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity, as indeed Wilkins&#039; Philosophical Language illustrates. Lojban&#039;s allowable vagueness permits useful sentences to be not much longer than their natural-language counterparts.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are many ways to omit information in Lojban, and it is up to the listener to reconstruct what was meant, just as in natural languages. In each construct, there are specific required and optional components. Unlike English, omitting an optional component explicitly and unambiguously flags an ellipsis. Furthermore, the listener has a clear way of querying any of this elliptically omitted information.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are also some categories which are necessary in Lojban and not in other languages. For example, Lojban requires the speaker, whenever referring to objects, to specify whether the objects are considered as individuals, as a mass, or as a (set theoretic) set. Likewise, logical relations are made explicit: there can be no neutrality in Lojban about inclusive vs. exclusive &#039;or&#039;, which are no more closely related semantically than any other pair of logical connectives.&lt;br /&gt;
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These properties are a product of Lojban&#039;s fundamental design, which was chosen to emphasize a highly distinctive and non-natural syntax (that of formal first-order predicate logic) embedded in a language with the same expressive power as natural languages. Through the appearance of this one highly unusual feature, the intent of the Loglan Project has been to maximize one difference between Lojban and natural languages without compromising speakability and learnability. This difference could then be tested by considering whether the use of first-order predicate logic as a syntactic base aided fluent Lojban speakers in the use of this logic as a reasoning tool.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to the &#039;primitives&#039;, Lojban gismu roots are defined rather abstractly, in order to cover as large a segment of closely related semantic space as possible. These broad (but not really vague) concepts can then be restricted using tanru and other constructs to any arbitrary degree necessary for clarity. Communicating the meaning of a gismu (or any other Lojban word) is a problem of teaching and lexicography. The concepts are defined as predicate relationships among various arguments, and various experimental approaches have been explored throughout the Loglan Project to determine the best means to convey these meanings. It is believed that the current working definitions of the gismu are much more clear than the 1966 set.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. On a more technical note, Lojban tanru involving more than two components are always left-grouping (in the absence of a marker word). Right-branching structure is &amp;quot;much more natural to human languages&amp;quot; (Z). Why was this choice made? &lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is predominantly a left-branching language. By default, all structures are left-branching, with right- branching available when marked by a particle. Since the head of most constructs appears on the left, left-branching structures tend to favor the speaker. Nothing spoken needs to be revised to add more information. When the head is on the right, as in the case of tanru, left-branching may seem counter-intuitive, as it requires the listener to retain the entire structure in mind until the head is found. However, left-branching was retained even in tanru for the sake of simplicity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Experience has shown, however, that Lojban&#039;s left- branching structure is not a major problem for language learners. Indeed, many longer English metaphors translate directly into Lojban using simple left-branching structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. Loglan anaphora use a convention which is &amp;quot;quite precise, and also quite unlike anything in natural languages&amp;quot; (Z), involving counting backward from the reference to the referent. This provides unique reference, but is also difficult to understand and use. Is there nothing better that preserves the desirable property of unique reference which a logical language needs?&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban anaphora conventions have undergone much revision and expansion since the early days of Loglan. There now exist both the &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot; Loglan back-counting anaphora, which refer to previous referents, and more &amp;quot;natural-language-like&amp;quot; anaphoric words which are meaningless until assigned. Assignment may be either in after-thought or forethought. These words are somewhat like natural language pronouns, but may more closely be compared to the use of regions of space in American Sign Language to refer to remote persons and things. Unassigned space regions in ASL are similarly meaningless.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is no longer a required convention that anaphora variables be assigned in a fixed order. Subscripts (as in mathematics) are allowed almost everywhere in the language, and provide for a countable infinity of variables as of many other things. Lojban also has added the capability of using individual letters and acronyms as anaphoric symbols.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. Why does Loglan have a different and even more complex system of &amp;quot;personal pronouns&amp;quot; for speaker/listener reference? Is this level of complexity really in order for what other languages treat as a simple matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban personal pronouns have been simplified. There are now forms for I, II, III, I and II, I and III, II and III, and I and II and III. There are no separate forms (and never have been) for plurals, because number is not a mandatory grammatical category in any part of Lojban. Number is expressed, when needed, using explicit numerals (which include both precise and vague forms analogous to English &#039;some&#039;, &#039;few&#039;, &#039;too many&#039;, etc.) Honorifics were recently added to the language, using a general mechanism which may apply to any word or construct, not merely to pronouns.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. Why does Loglan treat predicate connection as primary and sentence, argument, etc. connection as secondary?&lt;br /&gt;
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Whatever may have been assumed in the past for pedagogical purposes, logical connection between sentences is basic to Lojban. All other forms of logical connection may be transformed into equivalent sentence connections.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. Why are there so many structure words, and why are many of them so similar? Wouldn&#039;t this make Loglan hard to understand at a cocktail party (or a similar noisy environment)?&lt;br /&gt;
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One of the recurrent difficulties with all forms of Loglan, including Lojban, is the tendency to fill up the available space of structure words, making words of similar function hard to distinguish in noisy environments. The phonological revisions made when Lojban split from Insti- tute Loglan allowed for many more structure words (cmavo), but once again the list has almost entirely filled.&lt;br /&gt;
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In some cases, notably the digits 0-9, an effort has been made to separate them phonologically. The vocatives (including the words used for communication protocol, e.g. over the radio) are also maximally separated phonologically. Many other function words are based on shortened forms of corresponding gismu roots, however, and are not maximally separated.&lt;br /&gt;
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A variety of ways to say &amp;quot;Huh?&amp;quot; have been added to the language, partially alleviating the difficulty. These question words can be used to specify the type of word that was expected, or the part of the relationship that was not understood by the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;restrictions on stresses and pauses results in long sequences of unstressed syllables which must be pronounced without a break&amp;quot; (Z). This makes correct speech a &amp;quot;trial for a speaker of English or Russian, and not easy even for a speaker of French&amp;quot; (Z). Natural languages often have non-significant pauses, but in Loglan every non- required pause is forbidden. Is Loglan really speakable?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban allows certain flexibilities of pause and stress in the area of structure words. By default, all structure words are unstressed. However, it is possible to set off structure words with optional pauses, and even to give them optional stress, subject to a single limitation: a structure word followed by a predicate word without pause must not be stressed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Pauses are now permitted between any two words; only within a word is pause forbidden, and most words are short. gismu and cmavo are always one or two syllables long, and many lujvo compounds are only two or three syllables.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. &amp;quot;A partial explanation for the existence of transformations is to be found in the necessity for providing speakers of any language with relatively acceptable variants of certain types of deep structures.&amp;quot; (Z) Loglan has no transformations, making some sentences expressible, but far from straightforward or easy to use. Doesn&#039;t this make Loglan harder to use than typical natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have transformations, in the sense that there are several alternative surface structures that have the same semantics and therefore, presumably, the same deep structure. What it does not have is identical surface structures with differing deep structures, so a surface- structure-only grammar is sufficient to develop an adequate parsing for every text. Knowledge of transformations is required only to get the semantics right.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. Lojban connectives cannot be used to correctly translate English &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot;, because material implication is too weak and the special causal connectives, which connect assertions, are too strong. What can be done instead?&lt;br /&gt;
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The English sentence &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot; looks superficially like a Lojban &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot; connection (material implication), but it actually has causal connotations not present in &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot;. Therefore, a proper translation must involve the notion of cause. Neither the Lojban coordinating causal conjunction nor the two cor- relative subordinating causal conjunctions (one of which subordinates the cause and the other the effect) will serve, since these require that either the cause, or the effect, or both be asserted. Instead, the correct translation of the English involves &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; as a predicate, and might be paraphrased &amp;quot;The event of your watering it is a cause of the event of its future growing.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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14. How can Loglan logical connectives be used in imperative sentences? Logical connectives work properly only on complete sentences, and of those, only those which actually assert something.&lt;br /&gt;
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In early versions of Loglan, imperatives were marked by a predication without a subject. In Lojban, there is a special imperative pronoun &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot;. This is a second person pronoun logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;, the normal Lojban word for &#039;you&#039;, but conveying an imperative sense. Thus, an imperative can be understood as commanding the listener to make the assertion true which results when &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; is replaced by &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, &amp;quot;ko sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;Stop!&#039;) is logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;you stop&#039;), and pragmatically may be understood as &#039;Make &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; true!&amp;quot;. This allows logical connection to be used in imperatives without loss of clarity or generality; the logical connection applies to the assertion which is in effect embedded in the im- perative.&lt;br /&gt;
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A minor advantage of this style of imperative is that tensed imperatives like &amp;quot;ko ba klama&amp;quot;, (&#039;Come in-the- future!&#039;) become straightforward.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. Loglan&#039;s existential (bound) variables appear to be non-standard. Brown states that the value of an existential variable is always unknown to the speaker, rather than merely being unspecified (perhaps for reasons of privacy or germaneness). Why is this? Also, why isn&#039;t quantification over predicates provided? Why are the back- counting anaphora unable to refer to existential variables?&lt;br /&gt;
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Existential variables are now interpreted in a standard way, to refer to something unspecified, or something specified by a restrictive relative clause (&amp;quot;all x such that...&amp;quot;). There are separate sets of variables for quantifying over arguments and over predicates. In general, the back-counting anaphora (which are less important in Lojban than in Loglan) are not used to refer to other anaphoric words; this makes the counting convention a bit more complex, but leads to more generally useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. Untensed sentences ought to be neutral with respect to tense, mood, and aspect, but Brown treats untensed sentences as expressing disposition, habit, or ability - lasting throughout all time. This is inconsistent with other parts of the language which treat ellipsized material as merely unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tense system has been greatly elaborated and clarified with respect to its Loglan predecessor. There are now specific mechanisms for stating the potentiality or actuality of a predication; in the absence of these, a predication is neutral concerning the degree of actuality expressed by it. It is no longer true that &amp;quot;untensed&amp;quot; predicates are used to express disposition or habit. They may be so used, by ellipsis, but are in fact neutral in the absence of further evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban tense, like other incidental modifiers of a predication, tend to be contextually &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot;. When once specified in connected discourse, to whatever degree of precision seems appropriate, tense need not be respecified in each sentence. In narration, this assumption is modi- fied to the extent that each sentence is assumed to refer to a slightly later time than the previous sentence, although with explicit tense markers it is possible to tell a story in reversed or scrambled time order. Therefore, each predication does have a tense, one that is implicit if not necessarily explicit.&lt;br /&gt;
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17. The decisions about the degrees of predicates (the number of arguments expected for each) seem arbitrary. Color words are treated as relations of degree 2; weather predicates which have no real subject nevertheless need at least one argument; event predicates like &amp;quot;kiss&amp;quot; don&#039;t have an argument specifying the time. What theory underlies the choice of place structures?&lt;br /&gt;
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Very little. Place structures are empirically derived, like the root word list itself, and present a far more difficult problem; therefore, they will be standardized (if ever) only after everything else is complete. Many of the particular objections made above have force, and have already been accepted. There is no sufficiently complete and general case theory that allows the construction of a priori place structures for the large variety of predicates that exist in the real world.&lt;br /&gt;
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The current place structures of Lojban represent a three- way compromise: fewer places are easier to learn; more places make for more concision (arguments not represented in the place structure may be added, but must be marked with appropriate case tags); the presence of an argument in the place structure makes a metaphysical claim that it is required for the predication to be meaningful. This last point requires some explanation. For example, the predicate &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;come, go&amp;quot;) has five places: the actor, the destination, the origin, the route, and the means. Lojban therefore claims that anything not involving these five notions (whether specified in a particular sentence or not) is not an instance of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. The predicate &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;leave&amp;quot;) has the same places except for the destination; it is not necessary to be going anywhere in particular for &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; to hold. &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;travel&amp;quot;) has neither origin nor destination, merely, the actor, the route, and the means. The predicate &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;), involves only a walker and a means of walking (typically legs). One may walk without an origin or a destination (in circles, e.g.). For describing the act of walking from somewhere to somewhere, the tanru &amp;quot;cadzu klama&amp;quot; or the corresponding lujvo &amp;quot;dzukla&amp;quot; would be appropriate. The tanru &amp;quot;cadzu cliva&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cadzu litru&amp;quot; may be similarly analyzed.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. The Loglan phonological system is hard for English- speakers (to say nothing of Japanese-speakers) to use, due to the large numbers of consonant clusters and non-English diphthongs. How can a language be appropriate as an international auxiliary language when it is difficult to pronounce?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban phonology is much better than 1966 Loglan&#039;s was. There are now only 4 falling and 10 rising diphthongs, and the rising diphthongs are used only in names and in paralinguistic grunts representing emotions. All 25 vowel combinations are used, but they are separated by a voiceless vocalic glide written with an apostrophe, thus preventing diphthongization. English-speakers think of this glide as /h/, and even speakers of languages like French, which has no /h/, can manage this sound intervocalically.&lt;br /&gt;
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Consonant clusters are controlled more carefully as well. Only 48 selected clusters are permitted initially; some of these, such as &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mr&amp;quot;, do not appear in English, but are still possible to English-speakers with a bit of prac- tice. Medial consonant clusters are also restricted, to prevent mixed voiced-unvoiced clusters, consecutive stops, and other hard-to-handle combinations. The new Lojban sound /y/, IPA [@], is used to separate &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; medial clusters wherever the morphology rules would otherwise produce them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Difficulties with the variety of permitted initial sounds are overestimated. Lojban&#039;s morphology makes pronouncing these words easier than they first appear. Initial consonant clusters occur only in content words (predicates) and names. These words seldom are spoken in isolation; rather, they are expressed in a speech stream with a rhythmic stress pattern preceded (and followed) by words that end with a vowel. The unambiguous morphology allows the words to be broken apart even if run together at a very high speech rate. Meanwhile, though, the final vowel of the preceding word serves to buffer the cluster, allowing it to be pronounced as a much easier medial cluster. Thus &amp;quot;le mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the cat&amp;quot;), while officially pronounced /le,MLA,tu/, can be pronounced as /lem,LA,tu/ with no confusion to the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, the buffering sound, IPA [I] (the &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;English &amp;quot;bit&amp;quot;) is explicitly reserved for insertion at any point into a Lojban word where the speaker requires it for ease of pronunciation. The word &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; may be pronounced /mIlatu/ by those who cannot manage &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot;, and nothing else need be changed. This sound is &amp;quot;stripped&amp;quot; by the listener before any further linguistic processing is done.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. Loglan words resemble their English cognates, but unsystematically so. Does this really aid learning, or does it make learning more difficult?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban words are less English-like than prior versions of Loglan, since they were redone using new (1985) data on numbers of speakers. English is now less important in relative terms than Mandarin Chinese, and most Lojban words are fairly equal mixtures of the two languages, with lesser influences from Spanish, Hindi, Russian, and Arabic. The other languages used in 1966 Loglan are no longer as prominent in terms of world-wide number of speakers, and were dropped from the word-making algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no proven claim that the Lojban word-making algorithm has any meaningful correlation with learnability of the words. Brown has reported that informal &#039;engineering tests&#039; were conducted early in the Loglan Project, leading to his selection of the current algorithm, but these tests have never been documented or subjected to review. The Logical Language Group has proposed formal tests of the algorithm, and is instrumenting its software used for teaching vocabulary to allow data to be gathered that will confirm or refute Brown&#039;s hypothesis. Gathering this data may incidentally provide additional insights into the vocabulary learning process, enabling Lojban to serve the additional purpose of being a test bed for research in 2nd language acquisition.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, the word-making algorithm used for Lojban has the clear benefit of ensuring that phonemes occur in the language in rough proportion to their occurrence in the source natural languages, and in patterns and orders that are similar to those in the source languages (thus the first syllable of Lojban gismu most frequently ends in /n/, reflecting the high frequency of syllable ending /n/ in Chinese). The result is a language that is much more pleasant-sounding than, for example, randomly chosen phoneme strings, while having at least some arguable claim to being free of the European cultural bias found in the roots of most other constructed languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. Loglan has an absolutely fixed word order; in some cases, changes of word order are possible, but only by the addition of marker particles. Why is this? No natural language has an absolutely fixed word order (or for that matter, an absolutely free one).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s word order is by no means fixed. In fact, Lojban is only secondarily a &amp;quot;word order&amp;quot; language at all. Primarily, it is a particle language. Using a standard word order allows many of the particles to be &#039;elided&#039; (dropped) in common cases. However, even the standard un- marked word order is by no means fixed; the principal requirement is that at least one argument precede the predicate, but it is perfectly all right for all of the arguments to do so, leading to an SOV word order rather than the canonical SVO (subject-verb-object). VSO order is expressible using only 1 particle. In two-argument predicates, OSV, OVS, and VOS are also possible with only one particle, and various even more scrambled orders (when more than two-place predicates are involved) can also be achieved.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. Loglan does not have WH-questions of the English kind (its questions are fill-in-the-blank) and does not have relative clauses. Therefore, no &amp;quot;unbounded&amp;quot; transformations (in the technical sense) exist in the language. Sentences like &amp;quot;I met a man that John said Mary told George to visit&amp;quot; can be translated only with great pain. How can such fairly common types of constructions be represented better?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have relative clauses, of the Hebrew type; the relative marker and the relative pronoun are distinct. The marker &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; for non-restrictive clauses) always comes at the beginning, but the embedded clause is in normal order, using the relative pronoun &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; at the appropriate location to represent whatever is being elaborated by the clause.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. If Loglan is to be used as an international auxiliary language, it must be culturally neutral. But many of its conceptual distinctions, for example the color set, are clearly biased towards particular languages. There is a word for &#039;brown&#039;, which is a color not used in Chinese (although a word exists, it is rare); on the other hand, there is only one word for &#039;blue&#039;, although Russian- speakers convey the range of English &#039;blue&#039; with two words. How can Loglan be prevented from splintering into dialects which differ in such points?&lt;br /&gt;
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To some extent, such splitting is inevitable and already exists in natural languages. Some English-speakers may use the color term &#039;aqua&#039; in their idiolect, whereas others lump that color with &#039;blue&#039;, and still others with &#039;green&#039;. Understanding is still possible, perhaps with some effort. The Lojban community will have to work out such problems for itself; there are sufficient clarifying mechanisms to resolve differences in idiolect or style between individuals. The unambiguous syntax and other constraints defined in the language prescription should make such dif- ferences much more easily resolvable than, say, the differences between two dialects of English.&lt;br /&gt;
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The prescriptive phase of Lojban is not intended to solve all problems (especially all semantic problems) but merely to provide enough structure to get a linguistic community started. After that, the language will be allowed to evolve naturally, and will probably creolize a bit in some cultures. (A recent discussion has pointed out that observing the creolization of such a highly prescribed constructed language will undoubtedly reveal much about the nature of the processes involved.&lt;br /&gt;
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23. Loglan is supposed to be intended as a test of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in its negative form: &amp;quot;structural features of language make a difference in our awareness of the relations between ideas&amp;quot; (Brown). Is this simply another way of saying &amp;quot;Distinctions are more likely to be noticed if structurally marked&amp;quot; (Z)? If so, this is trivially true.&lt;br /&gt;
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A better paraphrase might be &amp;quot;Unmarked features are more likely to be used, and therefore will tend to constitute the backgrounded features of the language&amp;quot;. By making the unmarked features those which are most unlike natural-lan- guage features, a new set of thought habits will be created (if Sapir-Whorf is true) which will be measurably different from those possessed by non-Lojban speakers. If Sapir- Whorf is false, which is the null hypothesis for Lojban purposes, no such distinctions in thought habits will be detectable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Further elaboration of Loglan Project thinking about Sapir-Whorf has led to another alternate formulation: &amp;quot;The constraints imposed by structural features of language impose corresponding constraints on thought patterns.&amp;quot; In attempting to achieve cultural neutrality, Lojban has been designed to minimize many structural constraints found in natural languages (such as word order, and the structural distinctions between noun, verb, and adjective). If Sapir- Whorf is true, there should be measurable broadening in thought patterns (possibly showing up as increased cre- ativity or ability to see relationships between superficially unlike concepts). Again, the null hypothesis is that no measurable distinction will exist.&lt;br /&gt;
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24. How can &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot; be measured? Measuring facility with predicate logic is not enough to establish &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Perhaps not. However, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis tends to be confirmed if experiments show that Lojban-speakers have a greater facility with predicate logic than non- Lojban-speakers. That would indicate that language (natural language) limits thought in ways that Lojban- speakers can bypass. This form of test is not free of its own difficulties, which have been discussed elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Professor Zwicky&#039;s analysis raises several points of concern to linguists who might be interested in the potential use of Lojban for linguistic research. It is believed that sufficient planning and linguistic understanding (and occasionally serendipity) has been incorporated in the Lojban language design process to meet these concerns. Other concerns no doubt exist; it is believed they can similarly be addressed, and that Lojban will prove linguistically viable, as well as useful in our attempts to understand language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile, as Lojban has evolved since the 1966 version of Loglan, new features, not analyzed by Zwicky, have been added to the language, further enhancing its potential value. These features, such as Lojban&#039;s expression of the several varieties of natural language negation, the system of attitudinal words for emotional expression, and the discursives used for metalinguistic manipulation and comment on the discourse in progress, raise new questions about the adequacy of Lojban&#039;s design, while providing new opportunities for exploration of the properties of natural language, as well as the correctness of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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In 1991, it is time for linguists to again look at Lojban, with the expectation that new questions, and new respect, will be forthcoming.&lt;br /&gt;
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== A First Cut at a Linguistic Description of Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are some notes on Loglan/Lojban of possible interest to linguists. It is intended that this discussion is more germane to this audience than our general brochure.  We welcome questions, comments (and yes, criticisms) from the linguistic community on all aspects of the project.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is a public domain version of Loglan, a constructed language first invented by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1955. Dr. Brown is still working on his version of the language, which has significant flaws and remains proprietary. There is a dispute between Dr. Brown&#039;s group and ours, which has been compared to the Volapk collapse and the Esperanto/Ido split. However, the &#039;splinter&#039; in this case has survived and the Lojban community is growing at the limit of our resources to support it. We recommend that anyone familiar with Loglan but not with Lojban contact us for more detailed information on the situation and comparison between the two versions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Among the design criteria for Lojban has been particular attention to criticisms of the language presented by linguists over the past three decades. We believe that we have set the Loglan/ Lojban project on an academically sound footing, and are seeking continued input and review comments from linguists as we document the effort. While we are unfunded and have not yet been published in peer- reviewed journals, we expect both conditions to change. We do have linguists actively involved in the design effort itself, most notably Dr. John Parks-Clifford, a professor at University of Missouri at St. Louis researching in tense logic, among other areas, who is Vice President of our group.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language has been demonstrated in conversation, although there are no fluent speakers as of yet. My wife and I and others practice the language in spontaneous conversation perhaps 2 hours a week. Some poetry and other original writings in the language have been produced, though most work has been with translations (from English), most notably Saki&#039;s short story &#039;The Open Window&#039;, which proved especially amenable to translation and exercised areas of the language not often found in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Project was originally started to develop a language for testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. In addition to supporting this goal, Lojban is designed to support other possible experiments in linguistics, including most significantly the expression of emotions, linguistic typology, and language education techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
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With regard to Sapir-Whorf, the formulation we use is that &amp;quot;the structure of a language constrains the thought of the culture using that language&amp;quot;. This formulation relates to grammar as well as semantics, with more design effort being placed on grammatical aspects, presuming that semantics will develop with the formation of a Lojban- speaking subculture, and will, if not overtly biased, serve as one means of examining for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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The main basis for Lojban&#039;s use in Sapir-Whorf research is its grammar, which is based on logical predication. There are also explicit models for easily expressing first- order logical connectives. The strong bias towards logical structuring would be presumed to have a measurably sig- nificant effect on expression, and if our formulation of Sapir-Whorf is valid, on the culture that speaks the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language may show noticeable changes in first- generation Lojban speakers who are native in other languages (indeed, apparent effects have been observed already, though it is uncertain whether these are true Sapir-Whorf effects). A true Sapir-Whorf test will probably involve at-least-2nd generation speakers raised bilingually in Lojban and a natural language, and speakers from a variety of cultures. The need to build numbers of Lojban-speakers in many cultures has led to Loglan/Lojban&#039;s association with the international language movement, although that is not the primary purpose for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other applications, based on Lojban&#039;s unambiguous, computer-parsable syntax, heavily analytical semantics, and intended cultural neutrality, include multi-lingual machine translation using Lojban as an interlingua, use of Lojban as a medium for knowledge representation in computers, and use as a media for human-computer interface. Work in all of these areas is still at an early stage, and naturally will tend to involve different sorts of people than are interested in natural language research questions, although there may be some overlap in trying to use Lojban as a simple model for natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s design does recognize that most natural language usage resembling logical connectives is NOT truly logical. There are grammatical models for non-logical connection built into the language, although these tend to be more highly marked than logical expressions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has systematic structures for logical negation, scalar negation, and metalinguistic negation, each separately expressed. Particular effort has gone into abstraction based on Aristotelian models, a tense/location/aspect system which can analytically express an enormous range of aspects, yet is quite unlike Indo- European forms, systems for metalinguistic expression at a different &#039;level&#039; than normal expression, and a system of analytically based attitudinal indicators (interjections) that include Amerind-like observer-based expressions, modal attitudes, and an enormous range of emotional expression, all grammatically independent from the rest of the language. Lojban also has a system for unambiguous reading of mathematical expressions, which is relatively untested since such expressions are seldom found in normal conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban attempts to achieve cultural neutrality, a necessity for its research goals. This is primarily achieved by minimizing metaphysical assumptions, and wherever assumptions must be made, to be super-inclusive of the range of natural language expressions to minimize at least overt biases. There is also particular militancy in watching for hidden Americanism and English-language biases, since most of the developers and early speakers are native speakers of American English. This is believed to have been generally successful, but is an area that we particularly welcome close cross-examination. Of course, the logical orientation of the grammar is a planned bias, sufficiently extreme that it should overwhelm minor cultural constraints that are missed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Typologically, Lojban is SVO or SOV in its unmarked forms, although all other word orders are expressible with minimal marking. This typing makes a presumption of how to interpret &#039;subject&#039; in Lojban; the Lojban &#039;subject&#039; is perhaps better considered as a &#039;topic&#039;. Lojban has no inherent gender or number, and hence no morphological de- clension or agreement. As a predicate language, Lojban has no distinction between nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, although constructs comparable to each can be identified. Tense/modality/aspect is optional, and can range from simple to enormously complex. There are op- tional &#039;case markings&#039; for the arguments of a predication, but the set of tags is not inherently limited or based on a particular theory of semantic cases. These markings occur in pre-position, but are not really &amp;quot;prepositions&amp;quot;, since they can occur in other contexts. Modification in Lojban is left-to-right, with marked reversal and grouping of modifications possible. Lojban has two modes of possessive/associative expression, both preceding and following a target argument. Postposition modification of arguments includes both relative clauses and relative phrases.&lt;br /&gt;
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While the vocabulary of predicates strictly defines arguments expressed in a prescribed order (generally forcing complex expressions to the end of a sentence along with less frequently stated information), the &#039;case tag&#039; system allows free addition of arguments to a predication, thus minimizing constraints based on the semantics of in- dividual words. Lojban has a system for explicit and implicit ellipsis, and a specified grammar for incomplete or partial sentences to support pragmatic considerations in use of the language. We are especially interested in comments regarding other issues in pragmatics.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Computer Network Discussions on Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: The Sapir/Whorf Hypothesis&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
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jfl@munnari.oz.au (John Lenarcic)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pautler@ils.nwu.edu (David Pautler)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;minakami@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Michael K. Minakami)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;hullp@cogsci.berkeley.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;colin@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Colin Matheson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;wdr@wang.com (William Ricker)&lt;br /&gt;
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1. jfl: Briefly stated, the [Sapir/Whorf] hypothesis is : &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot; Language shapes the way we think, &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and determines what we can think about.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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2. pautler: (responding to 1.) A professor in pragmatics told me this spring that the theory only claims that a given language forces its users to mentally keep track of certain information like time-of-occurrence, etc. that is needed to make correct decisions about tense, etc. that are required to form sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dtate: (responding to 2.) I think this understates the hypothesis, at least in Whorf&#039;s version. Whorf claimed that, since we think in language, the language in which we think will have enormous impact on the ways in which we think, tending to reinforce certain patterns and undermine others. It could be something as blatant as having the word for &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; being etymologically related to that for &amp;quot;strong&amp;quot;, tending to reinforce &amp;quot;might makes right&amp;quot; thinking, or as subtle as the lack of a socially acceptable passive voice encouraging thinking of one&#039;s self as an agent and not as an object (or, of course, the converse).&lt;br /&gt;
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There is, to be sure, a &amp;quot;chicken and egg&amp;quot; question here: is it the language that shapes the culture, or the culture that shapes the language? The answer (IMHO) [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;] is &amp;quot;both&amp;quot;: the language evolves because of and in accordance with cultural forces, but after a certain point the language develops a momentum of its own, tending to carry the culture in directions already inherent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. minakami: (responding to 2.) I think this is only the weak form of the Whorfian hypothesis. The strong version does assert that the structure and lexicon of a language shapes thought. According to J. R. Anderson: &amp;quot;Whorf felt that such a rich variety of terms would cause the speaker of the language to perceive the world differently from a person who had only a single word for a particular category.&amp;quot; This stronger version of the hypothesis is generally considered disproved by Rosch&#039;s studies of color vision and similar experiments.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. rjohnson: (responding to 2.) There are various versions of the idea around, which can be attributed to von Humboldt, Sapir, Whorf, and their commentators. The idea that language &amp;quot;determines what we can think about&amp;quot; is a very strong version of the hypothesis, probably stronger than Sapir would have liked, maybe stronger than Whorf. These things were not always stated with perfect clarity and consistency, though, so it&#039;s difficult to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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[jfl&#039;s version in 1.] is a slightly odd-sounding version of Whorf&#039;s thesis. It&#039;s hard to say if it&#039;s a good rendering of Whorf into modern terms, but it feels rather reductive to me. At any rate, it&#039;s too narrow: Whorf was concerned with Hopi versus English way of thinking about time in that particular article, but the thesis in general isn&#039;t strictly limited to that. Hopi merely provided (or seemed to provide) a striking illustration of two different ways of thinking. Note that &amp;quot;ways of thinking&amp;quot; is in fact rather sloppy here: Whorf didn&#039;t actually investigate the ways Hopis think about time in any detail at all - he merely projected his feeling about the language onto their thinking. In essence, he assumed the truth of what later commentators saw as a &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot;. To Whorf, it was almost self-evident.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. pautler: (continuation of 2.) I believe the comparison S/W used to illustrate this was the bookkeeping required by a Southwest Native American language (Hopi?) regarding the source or validation of information - evidently there are markers performing the function of &amp;quot;FOAF&amp;quot;, etc. that are as necessary to well-formedness in that language (which does not mark tense) as tense is to English (which does not mark validation). Of course, the Native American language can express time-of-occurrence if need be, just as English can express source-of-information, but neither is explicitly required by the language itself. I believe the traditional example:&lt;br /&gt;
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(~11 Inuit language words for snow) and (~1 English word for snow) ==&amp;gt; (Inuit language and English users think about snow differently)&lt;br /&gt;
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might not be due to S/W and probably misrepresents their idea. But I am not a linguist, nor have I read their work. I just wanted to suggest that applications of S/W may not be what you actually want to look for.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. rjohnson: (responding to 6.) Yes. Whorf, though, not Sapir/Whorf. Whorf, though he had had some training, was basically a gifted amateur; Sapir was less inclined to make sweeping claims - he knew how language has a way of stab- bing such claims in the back.&lt;br /&gt;
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Boas, in fact, in the Introduction to the &amp;quot;Handbook of American Indian Languages&amp;quot; (1911) [introduces the &amp;quot;snow&amp;quot; example]. (At least this is the point at which it was introduced into linguistics.) Geoff Pullum has recently done a fairly comprehensive study of where this idea comes from and how it has mutated into &amp;quot;50 words for snow&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;*100* words for snow,&amp;quot; etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, and I think many other linguists (though not all), have a gut feeling that somewhere, somehow, deep down, there&#039;s a kernel of truth in the idea, but no attempt to frame it as an empirical hypothesis has, to my knowledge, really led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. hullp: (responding to 7.) Actually, several studies have indeed led somewhere. Casagrande&#039;s 1950&#039;s studies demonstrated a so-called Whorfian effect on children&#039;s perception of shape. The comparison was between Navaho speakers (whose language mandates the marking of shape with inflections) and English speakers. There have been a few others (not many, admittedly) that have demonstrated similar effects. The problem is that most of the tests of the hypothesis have been tests of color perception and categorization. Color perception is strongly rooted in physiology and is thus uniform across cultures to a large degree. Any language effects would have to be in a domain for which there is less evidence for a physical basis.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. dmark: (responding to 8.) In fact, Lakoff (in &amp;quot;Women, Fire, ...&amp;quot;) discusses a study by Kay and Kempton that seemed to clearly demonstrate linguistic relativity in color perception. Phillip Hull is correct in pointing out the strong physiological basis of color perception. Thus different color perception due to language seems pretty powerful evidence. (I could describe the experiment, from Lakoff&#039;s account, and/or give the full reference, if people want me to.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. rjohnson: (responding to 8.) Thanks for this information. I guess I was using &amp;quot;led anywhere&amp;quot; in a somewhat more global sense. That is, I know there have been a smattering of studies that purport to be consistent with (&amp;quot;confirm&amp;quot; is too strong, I think) the S/W hypothesis - but it doesn&#039;t seem that any real coherent picture emerges of &amp;quot;thought&amp;quot; as a whole being strongly affected by &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; as a whole; that is, we have little evidence that &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; effects are of fundamental importance to cognition. Instead we get hints that there may be something there, but the results are mixed and often rather tentative. Does this fit with your perspective on things? (Admittedly, notions like &amp;quot;of fundamental importance&amp;quot; are pretty difficult to assess.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, as you say, the best-known disconfirming studies suffer from being in the relatively few areas where there probably are reliable hard-wired universals, as in Berlin and Kay&#039;s studies of color terms. In the huge gray area, evidence seems hard to come by. I was briefly involved with a cognitive science team a few years back that was grappling with some of these questions, and it seemed to me that the task of designing experiments was extraordinarily hard - every approach had serious pitfalls. I don&#039;t know how their work turned out, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. colin: (responding to 7.) I agree with your gut feeling. I suppose the trouble is, as with many Linguistic issues, that the &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; of the matter lies at such a level of abstraction that it&#039;s difficult just to talk about it. However, here&#039;s one suggestion of one version of the thesis (count the hedges!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps it&#039;s true that the act of &amp;quot;compressing&amp;quot; abstractions into concepts represented by single lexical items or phrases has a qualitative effect on the kinds of things it is possible to talk about. Thus although it&#039;s probably the case that one can express any particular concept in any language periphrastically, it might just be that the ability to encapsulate things in immediately transferrable units affects the sorts of transfer that are possible. (Where the transfer is of information between humans.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is this version of the Sapir/Whorf stuff part of the original, by the way?&lt;br /&gt;
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12. swsh: (responding to 11.) No, I don&#039;t think so. In my understanding, Whorf and Sapir were not interested so much in what &amp;quot;one can express&amp;quot; in a given language, as in the conceptual categories which underlie grammatical ones and which are used by speakers as a guide to experience. Thus, the important thing in their view is not how many words for snow a language has, but what assumptions about things like space, time, form, substance, etc., are implicit in the language&#039;s grammatical categories. The controversial part about what they, particularly Whorf, said is the thesis that speakers use these assumptions to guide their habitual beliefs and attitudes, and therefore see them as arising directly from reality, rather than projected on to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;Whorfian hypothesis&amp;quot; is often stated as having two forms, a &amp;quot;hard&amp;quot; version (language determines thought) and a &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; version (language and thought are kinda sorta related). From Whorf&#039;s writings, it appears that he himself held views more towards the &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; end of the spec- trum. He shied away from saying there is a &amp;quot;correlation&amp;quot;, that being too definite a word, preferring to say that it could be shown that there are cases where linguistic categories are in some way connected to cultural ones, even if it&#039;s not universally true. However, it seems to me that it would be mighty odd to find a language whose grammar revealed a categorical system that was otherwise unused by speakers, either in individual cognition, or as part of the attendant culture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. wdr: (responding to 11.) If I understood that periphrastic version of the hypothesis, I think it has as a corollary that English is not highly suited to it&#039;s own transfer. Which, given the context, I suspect may have been Colin&#039;s point, but if it wasn&#039;t, I&#039;ll suggest it more openly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is a natural language the right language in which to discuss the deficiencies of natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That it was not was one of the original motivations of the Loglan/Lojban successor of Esperanto. Can one of you sci.lang folks translate the S/W hypotheses various statements in this newsgroup lately into Lojban and give us an unbiased account of how manipulable they are in a non- formal yet unnatural language? [ed.: no one has done this yet - any volunteers?]&lt;br /&gt;
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14. pautler: (wrapping up) Perhaps many of you are tiring of the discussion about the claims made by S/W, but I&#039;m going to take the risk of extending the debate:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does the S/W hypothesis suggest that we view a particular language as a collection of tools used to achieve social (communicative, in particular) goals? The analogy I have in mind is this: our ability to achieve tasks is determined by the tools we have at hand, which forces us to think about solving the task primarily in terms of what subtask each tool can achieve. Of course, we can always attempt to invent new tools if they are needed, but invention is difficult for both language conventions and tools, so the analogy still holds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My claim, then, is this: if this is an accurate analogy, then should the S/W hypothesis be any more surprising than a claim that farmers and stockbrokers think differently about the world due to the different means they have of interacting with it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Lojban as seen by the linguistics and cognitive science community&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kimba@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Michael Newton)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;harold@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Harold Somers)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;aronsson@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lgorbet@hydra.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daryl@oravax.UUCP (Steven Daryl McCullough)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lee@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Greg Lee)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: (starting the debate - several paragraphs below elucidate his opinions further) I have been acquainted with Lojban for a few years now, and have a few thoughts on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
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My overall impression is that a monumental effort is being made by an astonishingly large group of people, and that while it is quite well-intentioned, its ultimate goals are unattainable at best, and highly suspicious at worst. Some minor and major objections:&lt;br /&gt;
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One: The audio-visual isomorphism. Presumably, this is an attempt to address the rather poor way that some written languages reflect the spoken language (such as English). This fails to predict variations of accent, as well as the language-specific biases of speakers - English speakers for instance will probably continue to mark yes-no questions with a rising tone. Of course this isn&#039;t indicated in the written form, so already the idea of audio-visual isomorphism is weak at best.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. lojbab: (responding to 1.) Yes, English speakers probably will. But Hindi speakers probably won&#039;t. Thus rising tone (pitch) will not be a significant indication in&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban. Now, in the English &#039;dialect&#039; of Lojban, such suprasegmentals will probably be redundant and reinforcing information to the truly significant version of the questioned contained in the words. And if for some other reason, your voice rises in pitch, if there is no &#039;xu&#039;, it is not a yes/no question.&lt;br /&gt;
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As an advantage, I suspect that it will be a lot easier to get computers voice-processing the Lojban phonemes than the English suprasegmentals (Anyone have any actual knowledge on this?)&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dan: (continuation of 1.) Furthermore, the idea of a language that assumes all of its speakers will have precisely the same accent is too terrifying to contemplate, yet Lojban&#039;s writing system would seem to depend on this fact.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. lojbab: (responding to 3.) Lojban&#039;s prescription says nothing about &#039;accent&#039;. Each of the sounds we&#039;ve defined as phonemic has a certain range wherein it is phonemic. Lojban &#039;r&#039; can range from a full trill to a simple flap, for example, and we&#039;ve made no prescription regarding dark &#039;l&#039; vs. light &#039;l&#039;. Difference in these phonemes will result in different &#039;accents&#039;. There will probably be less spread than most natural languages, but there will be some spread.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. cowan: (responding to 3.) Of course [it&#039;s too terrifying to contemplate]! However, this neglects the distinction between &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;etic&amp;quot; features of the language. The claim of audio-visual isomorphism is not that every possible distinction of speech is represented in the written form, but only that all significant distinc- tions are so represented. For example, true-false questions may be signalled (among English speakers) with a rising tone, but also must be signalled with the prefix word &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; carries the entire content, and will be understood by any fluent Lojbanist from whatever back- ground. The tone is superfluous.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. dan: (responding to 5.) If every Lojban speaker were a native English speaker, you could just as easily argue that the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; is superfluous. But this is circular reasoning. Is the purpose of Lojban to be spoken in a dull monotone? Or do you expect the writing system to evolve to account for any variations in tone that might come along? Suppose some third-generation Lojban speakers always mark yes-no questions with a falling tone accompanied by a series of elaborate hand-jives (gestures are expressive too), will you mark this in the written version as well? How do you determine what a &amp;quot;significant&amp;quot; feature of the language is? &lt;br /&gt;
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7. cowan: (responding to 6.) We determine significant features by defining them. Again, this is a constructed language, and a posteriori reasoning appropriate to natural (non-constructed) languages doesn&#039;t necessarily fit all cases.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the baseline version of Lojban, the way of marking a true-false question is to prefix it with &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. This is true by definition, a priori. Once the language is baselined, the normal processes of linguistic change may indeed alter the marking system to something involving tone, gesture, or toe-wiggling. At that time, Lojban will be a natural language (defined here as one having native speakers) and will need to be investigated by the methods of ordinary synchronic linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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(When Bob LeChevalier, the most fluent speaker at present, speaks in the language, he does tend to talk in a monotone, possibly bending over backwards to avoid influence from English suprasegmentals. He does hesitate longer between sentences than at other mandatory pauses, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
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8. lojbab: (responding to 6.) That would be a truly odd purpose for a language - to be spoken in a monotone. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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The writing system would not need recognize variations in pitch, gestures, or any other feature of spoken language unless these came to convey variations in meaning that were not already reflected (and reflectable) in the written lan- guage. In addition, since human-computer interaction using Lojban is intended to be significant in its usefulness, it seems unlikely that there will evolve variations that cannot be easily recognized AND reproduced by a computer listener/speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
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A significant feature of a logical language, of course, is one that affects the truth conditions of its statements. A change or variation in the language would not be &#039;significant&#039; unless it affected such truth conditions. A change which introduced ambiguity would obviously be significant.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. cowan: (continuation of 5.) Note also that audio-visual isomorphism cuts both ways. It ensures not only that every &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; feature of speech is representable in writing, but also that features of text such as paragraphing, structural punctuation, parenthesis, and layout have representations in speech. For example, the word &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; signals a change of subject and is used to separate spoken paragraphs; likewise, non-mathematical parentheses are pronounced &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;(&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;)&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
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10. dan: (continuation of 1., from 3.) TWO: Sapir/Whorf is tacitly assumed by almost everyone that I&#039;ve talked to in connection to Lojban. This isn&#039;t unusual, since it&#039;s also assumed by an astonishing portion of the world at large. &lt;br /&gt;
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11. cowan: (responding to 10.) The Lojban project is founded on assuming the truth of SWH; the falsity of SWH is the null hypothesis. To develop Lojban at all, we must assume SWH. If Lojban turns out to have no effect on thought, i.e. to be a mere code, SWH will not be confirmed. (This is not to say it will be disproved.)&lt;br /&gt;
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12. lojbab: (responding to 10.) Assumed to be what? True? No. Important enough to test? Yes. If Sapir-Whorf is important enough to test, then Lojban must be designed with features that will likely have a noticeable effect, while being sufficiently culturally neutral that non-Lojban variables can be at least statistically removed.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban design HAS to assume that Sapir-Whorf is true, or that design will be meaningless for experimental purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to whether those working on the language &#039;tacitly assume&#039; Sapir-Whorf, I doubt it. There are no doubt many who believe SWH true, and a couple I know of who believe it false, but are willing to see. Most are fairly open- minded. In any case, if we are being &#039;good scientists&#039;, our individual opinions on the hypotheses we investigate shouldn&#039;t matter, since some degree of professional detachment is expected. When I work on Lojban as a researcher, I try to turn off that part of me that does &#039;Lojban promotion&#039; (admittedly a bit more biased). I rely on peer review to catch any biases from my personal views that slip into my work. Given the wide disparity of views among Lojban workers, and our sensitivity towards avoiding unnecessary bias, I&#039;m confident that there is no problem.&lt;br /&gt;
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If Sapir-Whorf (or its equivalent - since a lot of people assume it without even knowing it exists) is tacitly assumed by the world, it seems an especially important question to investigate scientifically. If SWH is used by some to justify racism, some concrete data to attack such use is more effective than personal distaste. Just because a scientific question has political ramifications based on its possible outcomes does not mean that the question shouldn&#039;t be asked, or moreover, shouldn&#039;t be answered.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. dan: (responding to 12.) Yes, I&#039;d say that a surprisingly large number of people when informed about S/W will automatically assume it to be true. The issue to me is one of putting the cart before the horse: to whit, many people have astonishingly racist attitudes about a wide range of phenomena. Language is no exception. If you read the literature of the whole English First movement, one sees thinly veiled racism of the worst sort. Also witness the thinly veiled classism of most of the prescriptivists - the goal is to avoid sounding &amp;quot;low class&amp;quot;. Even something as simple as differing accents within a homogeneous speech community can cause people to raise their eyebrows. Human beings seem to have an overwhelming urge to pigeonhole people by any method possible. What does this have to do with S/W? Well, given that nobody seems particularly satisfied either way with the results of actual psy- cholinguistic tests that have been tried, if someone believes S/W then they can choose to ignore any test results that seem to go against it and start to make some pretty frightening statements.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. dan: (continuation of 1., from 10.) What I&#039;m getting at is that there is a serious danger that people who believe in the S/W hypothesis will use this belief to make claims about their language being superior to someone else&#039;s. The empirical basis for these claims has already been discussed, so I won&#039;t get into it, except to say that I remain unconvinced by the S/W hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. cowan: (responding to 10 and 14.) One of the major workers in Lojban [ed.: pc] believes that SWH is in fact false. There is as diverse a variety of views on SWH in the Lojban community as on any other subject.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. lojbab: (responding to 14.) Yes, there is [a serious danger]. But there is also the chance that if SWH is true, that the reverse will happen. Based on the natural selection paradigm (also perhaps questionable with regard to languages - but the analogy is useful), if one language is &#039;superior&#039; to another in some small area (such as mathematical thinking - as in the previous example), the fact that the other language survives indicates that it also has some compensating advantages that suit its niche.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus Sapir-Whorf might help us see the virtue in all languages and cultures. I certainly don&#039;t think that if Lojban was proved able to assist or improve logical thinking, that it should displace English or any other language. To borrow someone else&#039;s line, Lojban becomes another tool in the linguistic tool chest. You learn it like an English speaker learns French or FORTRAN, to meet a communication need that is not well served by English.&lt;br /&gt;
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17. dan: (responding to 16.) I am told that among anthropologists, S/W in some form, is popular.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. lojbab: (responding to 17.) Indeed. I know that in the Loglan/Lojban community, Reed Riner at Northern Arizona and John Atkins and Carol Eastman at Washington are anthropologists that were/are interested in S/W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, there is another &#039;related field&#039; that makes heavy use of S/W, either directly, or in an evolved form. Semiotics apparently uses a lot of ideas these days that at least tacitly assume some degree of cultural relativity, and I&#039;m told Umberto Eco, is particularly &#039;Whorfian&#039; in his ideas. I don&#039;t know these things directly, having no meaningful exposure to semiotics. My source is Robert Gorsch at St. Mary&#039;s College in CA, who teaches En- glish/Semiotics/Linguistics there. He&#039;s been developing an introductory course in Semiotics showing the evolution of S/W into current semiotics theories (incidentally relying on Esperanto and Lojban as primary examples). We published his course outline and bibliography in a recent issue of our internal journal, Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. dan: (responding to 18.) Eco is interested in a number of theories that are out of vogue among Chomskian linguists. He also seems to have an interest in the so- called &amp;quot;meaning-based&amp;quot; theories of language, posited by people like Schank, in the NLP [natural language processing] community. He devotes some space to Schank&#039;s theory of conceptual dependency in several books (titles forgotten ...sorry!).&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of fields related and unrelated to semiotics also make use of certain Whorfian arguments. Some feminist theorists have an axe to grind about how language is used to oppress women.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. dan: (continuing 17.) To me, the idea of linguistic equality - that all languages are more or less created equal, is a much more egalitarian view. It jibes well with my notion that all people are created equal. This principle forms the basis for much in the way of my political views. I don&#039;t want to get into a debate here about the politics of language, but it&#039;s something I feel very strongly about.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. lgorbet: (responding to 20.) The phrase in Dan&#039;s recent posts that confuses me a lot is &amp;quot;all languages are equal&amp;quot;. So far as I can see that may well - probably has nothing to do with whether (some version or other of) S/W is true or not.&lt;br /&gt;
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I suspect the most common belief of linguists who think about S/W at all is that (a) S/W is true; and (b) all languages are &amp;quot;equal&amp;quot;. AND you seem to be assuming that the truth of S/W entails inequality (in some unstated sense) of languages. All S/W says, even in the strongest versions I know anyone competent who believes, is that lan- guages are different in ways that leads their speakers to tend to think differently.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks to work by lots of folk over the past half century (oops, more than that), it&#039;s pretty clear that different languages have lots in common as well as some striking differences. So probably most of us (my wild supposition, I admit) think that the impact of a true S/W would not be all that huge a difference. But a difference in conceptualization and knowledge is not the same thing as inequality.&lt;br /&gt;
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It almost seems to me that to assume that different ways of thinking are unequal ways of thinking plays into the hands of racists even more...&lt;br /&gt;
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This is NOT a flame. You raise some important issues, many of which I agree with, especially about the ways our work can get abused by those with an unsavory agenda.&lt;br /&gt;
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[The discussion of Sapir-Whorf and its possible racist use continued for quite a while, and is omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
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22. dan (continuation of 1., from 14.): This empirical basis is something that I use as a foundation for my personal ideological beliefs with regard to such issues as English-only laws and prescriptivism (by the likes of Safire, Lederle, Simon et al.). It seems to me that the Lojbanists, who are already claiming that the language makes them think more clearly on certain things are setting themselves up for a type of elitism that I find frightening.&lt;br /&gt;
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THREE: Lojban&#039;s allegedly unambiguous syntax. The bottom line is that &amp;quot;plastic cat food can cover&amp;quot; is still ambiguous in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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23. cowan: (responding to 22.) This English utterance is ambiguous in three different ways. Syntactically, it might be a noun phrase (a kind of cover) or a sentence (asserting that plastic cat food is capable of covering something). Lojban does not have this kind of ambiguity: the first would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; and the second would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja ka&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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24. harold: (responding to 23.) Well, I think you&#039;ll find that syntactically the phrase is MUCH more ambiguous: as a noun phrase, ignoring the semantic ambiguity of any noun+noun pairing (e.g. &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; = food for cats, food made of cats, food which looks like a cat; &amp;quot;can cover&amp;quot; = cover for a can, cover made out of a can; &amp;quot;plastic cat&amp;quot; = cat made out of plastic, cat which behaves like plastic, cat which belongs to plastic, etc) it has readings [numbers added for later cross-reference]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for plastic cat food cans i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for cans which contain plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
1 a cover for cans which contain food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
2 a cover for cans which contain plastic food for cats or&lt;br /&gt;
3 a cover for plastic cans which contain cat food or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a can cover for plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
4 a can cover for food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
5 a can cover for plastic food for cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a food can cover for plastic cats i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
6 a cover for a food can for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
7 a can cover for food for plastic cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a cat food can cover made of plastic i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover, made of plastic, for cat food cans i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
8 a cover, made of plastic, for cans for cat food or&lt;br /&gt;
9 a cover, made of plastic, for food cans for cats&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Let me render each of these forms into Lojban. As a glossary, slasi &#039;plastic&#039;, mlatu &#039;cat&#039;, cidja &#039;food&#039;, lante &#039;can&#039;, and gacri &#039;cover&#039; take care of all the content words, each of which (luckily for me) has a single-word Lojban equivalent. I will comment on the function words I use as I use them.&lt;br /&gt;
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It should be stated from the start that Lojban interprets dyadic compounds as &amp;lt;modifier&amp;gt; followed by &amp;lt;modificand&amp;gt;, in other words AN [adjective-noun order], although this can be changed with the particle &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[numbers relate back to English in 24.]&lt;br /&gt;
1) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. This form is totally unmarked, and has the meaning of the English 1) because Lojban associates left-to-right. In other words, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
2) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. The function word &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; causes the two content words surrounding it to be most closely associated. So &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;. Otherwise, left-to-right modification remains intact, so that &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
3) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here we make two coordinated claims about the &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, namely that it is of type &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; (a cat-food can) and that it is &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; (plastic). So we insert the particle &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; which means this type of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;. (There are several Lojban words for &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is the one that&#039;s grammatical in this context).&lt;br /&gt;
4) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot; are grouped, so that &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (food for plastic cats) modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot; (can-type-of cover).&lt;br /&gt;
5) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here we have three components grouped in left-to-right order: &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Therefore &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, making this a plastic cat-food type of can-cover.&lt;br /&gt;
6) &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here again we have three components, but different ones from those appearing in 5).&lt;br /&gt;
8) &amp;quot;slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;. Here we introduce the new particles &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot;. These group in the same way that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; does, but everything between &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; is grouped. Wherever &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears between two words, it can be replaced by &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; before the first and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; after the second. So 4) can be rewritten as &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja ke lante gacri&amp;quot;, with elision of &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at the end of the phrase. This is an example of a general point about Lojban: most things are expressible using both &amp;quot;forethought&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;afterthought&amp;quot; forms, comparable to the difference in English between &amp;quot;both A and B&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;A and B&amp;quot;. In this case, we need the whole of &amp;quot;mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; to group as one modifier, so &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not usable. We also need &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; because again two claims are being made, that the cover is both plastic and for cat-food cans.&lt;br /&gt;
9) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; serves us again, in contradistinction to 8), because of an additional rule that comes into play when &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears on both sides of an element: it is right-grouping. So whereas &amp;quot;A B C&amp;quot; means that &amp;quot;A B&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;C&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;A bo B bo C&amp;quot; means that A modifies &amp;quot;B bo C&amp;quot;. So here we claim that the cover is both plastic and is of type &amp;quot;cat food-can&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are other ways to express these ideas if the constraint on ordering the content words is relaxed. There are also lots of other possibilities expressible by the Lojban syntax, such as &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu bo cidja bo lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, which might be a plastic type of food-can cover for use by cats. In addition, &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; (and) can be replaced by &amp;quot;ja&amp;quot; (inclusive or) or &amp;quot;jonai&amp;quot; (exclusive or) or any of the other Boolean relationship, or by various non-logical connectives such as &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; (mass mixture): &amp;quot;slasi joi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; would be food made from plastic and from cats [mixed together].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
26. cowan: (continuing 23.) In the English utterance, it is unclear exactly what modifies what.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
27. harold: (responding to 26., continuing 24.) I don&#039;t think so. Of the above interpretations, there is a more or less clear ranking of preference, notwithstanding some context which promotes an unusual reading (e.g. a story about plastic cats): I find (8) the most plausible, with (3) next best. The least plausible are the ones involving plastic cats or plastic food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
28. cowan: (continuing 23., from 26.) So Lojban&#039;s unmarked form is grouped left-to-right unambiguously, and other groupings can be unambiguously marked by the insertion of appropriate structure words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
29. harold: (responding to 28., continuing 27.) It is relatively easy to construct plausible noun phrases consisting of five consecutive nouns for all the above patterns, just by substituting more appropriate nouns: e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  1 tabby cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  2 soya-bean cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  3 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
  4 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  5 =2&lt;br /&gt;
  6 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  7 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  8 (preferred reading)&lt;br /&gt;
  9 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And of course, we can construct longer sequences of noun phrases, with even larger numbers of ambiguities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can Lojban handle all of these, and, more important, would we want a language to do so? The point is that most of the readings are implausible for semantic reasons, but all (or most) groupings are possible, given the appropriate words. The same thing happens with PP attachment by the way. The problem is that you cannot tell a priori which grouping will be plausible: NLP [natural language processing] programs have to try all possible groupings and then test them for semantic coherence, a terrible waste of effort with big noun phrases or sequences of ambiguous words like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gas pump prices rose last time oil stocks fell&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
in each word is at least two-ways ambiguous (all are both nouns and verbs, and some are also adjectives).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
30. aronsson: (responding to 28.) What if the intended grouping was &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can)) type of cover&amp;quot;? That is a plastic cover for these cans (which are probably made of tin - I would consider this more probable) rather than a generic cover for these plastic cans. Would the sentence still translate into &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;? Could the same sentence also mean &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot;? (Never mind why anybody would make plastic food - that is semantics!) If any of the above, Lojban must be considered ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
31. cowan: (responding to 30.) No. &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; are logical parentheses. &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover)&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; because &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; has higher precedence than concatenation, though lower than &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
32. aronsson: (continuing 30.) Or what if both modifiers have a more complex form? In the example above, the modifier plastic has the simplest possible form, but consider a phrase like (I wrote this with Emacs LISP mode!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
 ((some-special type of plastic)                           &lt;br /&gt;
  and                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  (((cat or	dog)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
    type of	food)                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      type of can))                                        &lt;br /&gt;
type of cover                                              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, parenthesis are needed not only for the general grouping, but also to unambiguously determine the precedence of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot;! IMHO [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;], there are exactly two ways of designing a ambiguous-free language, none of which will make it look like any human language: 1) Using parenthesis as in LISP [see examples above] and 2) Using only very short sentences as in ordinary computer machine language. In case 2, the example would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Cover.                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  for      can.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Can    for      food.                                    &lt;br /&gt;
  Food   for      cat.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  made of  plastic.                                 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
33. cowan: (responding to 32.) The first method (parenthesis) is employed, using &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; parenthesis marks as needed. This is not supposed to &amp;quot;look like any natural language&amp;quot;; this is precisely the area where Lojban differs from all natural languages, and constitutes the evidence that Lojban is not an &amp;quot;{English, Chinese, etc.}- based code&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;And&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot; have the same precedence and are left associative; simple concatenation is also left associative, whereas &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; (which semantically is the same as concatenation, i.e. undefined) is high-precedence and right associative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
34. cowan: (continuing 23., from 28.) On a third level, a phrase like &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; is ambiguous semantically. Is it food for cats or food consisting of cats? Here Lojban really is ambiguous, but the ambiguity is semantic not syntactic. The three main kinds of ambiguity in Lojban (this kind, ellipsis, and the ambiguity of names (which Sam?)) are all semantic in nature. As in any natural language, any of these ambiguities can be &amp;quot;expanded&amp;quot; on the semantic level by adding more information: &amp;quot;lo mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (a cat type of food) could become &amp;quot;da poi cidja loi mlatu&amp;quot; (something which is-food-for the-mass-of cats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
35. dan: (responding to 34.) Semantic ambiguity is present all over the place. How does Lojban handle issues like quantifier scope ambiguity? In English, a sentence like &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; is ambiguous. If Lojban merely paraphrases such utterances, to two separate utterances along the lines of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;For all x, There exists a y such that x loves y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;There exists a y for all x such that x loves y&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
while tolerating some version of the original utterance, than nothing has been accomplished. I can do the same thing in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
36. cowan: (responding to 35.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Lojban has mechanisms for setting quantifier scopes, involving explicit quantifiers appearing in a prenex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Loglan/Lojban has never claimed to be free of semantic ambiguity. Your original objection 3 [see 22. above] (refers to &amp;quot;allegedly unambiguous syntax&amp;quot;, but on investigation your objections are to semantic rather than syntactic ambiguity. Our claims are: a) Lojban is free of phonological, morphological, and syntactic ambiguity, and b) Lojban semantic ambiguity is present only in clearly marked places within the language: a Lojbanist knows when he/she is using an ambiguous form, and can replace it as needed with unambiguous ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
37. lojbab: (responding to 35.) I disagree [with dan]. For one thing, if Lojban can express the multiple meanings better and more clearly than English, and if the expressions can be more easily manipulated logically, this would presumably &#039;enhance logical thinking&#039; if SWH is true.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban doesn&#039;t &#039;tolerate some version of the original&#039; in the sense that the parallel translation to &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot; is not equivalent to both English paraphrases. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
38. dan: (responding to 37.) So what&#039;s the gloss of the Lojban sentence? Which reading does it correspond to? Is there a quick and easy way to disambiguate?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
39. cowan: (responding to 38.) The Lojban rule is that quantifiers are applied in the order in which they appear in the sentence, so &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all man love one fish&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;For all men X, there exists one fish Y, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; The other interpretation could be given by &amp;quot;converting&amp;quot; the predicate with the particle &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. This operation reverses the order of the arguments to a predicate. &amp;quot;pa finpe se prami ro nanmu&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one fish be-loved-by all man&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;There exists one fish Y, for all men X, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; Note that conversion is analogous to the passive voice but has no semantic significance other than this inversion of quantifiers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has machinery for expressing the quantifiers externally in a prenex, terminated by the word &amp;quot;zo&#039;u&amp;quot;. So another set of Lojban paraphrases for your sentences above is &amp;quot;ro da poi nanmu pa de poi finpe zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all X which is-a-man, one Y which is-a-fish, X loves Y&amp;quot;; and &amp;quot;pa de poi finpe ro da poi nanmu zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one Y which is-a-fish, all X which is-a-man, X loves Y&amp;quot;. Presumably, a transformational grammar of Lojban would derive both of these surface structures (with and without prenex) from the same underlying deep structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What Lojban does not have is any sentence which means both of your two forms ambiguously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
40. lojbab: (continuation of 37, in response to 35.) You cannot &#039;do the same thing in English&#039;. Even if the two English paraphrases are considered &#039;standard English&#039; (and many linguists do not, identifying them as a jargon), neither is the same as Dan&#039;s original. Fill in &#039;man&#039; for &#039;x&#039; and &#039;fish&#039; for &#039;y&#039;, and the result is ungrammatical:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;For all man, there exists a fish such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;There exists a fish for all man such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It takes some extensive manipulations to turn these into grammatical sentences, and the results are not &#039;obviously&#039; the same as the English original. These same manipulations do not suffice for all possible substitutions: if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;fish&#039;, or if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;Mary&#039;, you have to perform different transforms. In Lojban, the transforms are independent of the value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
41. aronsson: (responding to 34.) I fail to see the difference. When designing an artificial language one could outlaw all use of modifiers without modifier indicators (prepositions or similar). Thus it would have been possible for the Lojban designers to make &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; illegal, only allowing &amp;quot;food for cats&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;food made-of cats&amp;quot;. If they did not do this, they obviously failed to design an ambiguity-free language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
42. cowan: (responding to 41.) We didn&#039;t want to make the language semantically unambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) The language is phonologically, morphologically, and syntactically unambiguous; and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) the language is semantically ambiguous only in specified areas, of which this is one (making open com- pounds by concatenation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
43. dan: (continuation of 1., from 22.) Natural languages are not unambiguous. From the acquisition side, ambiguous languages are much easier to learn for a child than a logical language would be. The principles of Universal Grammar [UG] do not seem to produce unambiguous languages, and all natural languages are constructed according to the principles of UG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
44. cowan: (responding to 43.) A lot of unproven assumptions here. Common assumptions, yes, but still unproven. We simply don&#039;t know whether a child could become competent in Lojban. Maybe when the language is complete and documented, somebody will be inspired to start raising bilingual children. There are native speakers of Esperanto, after all, whose parents have no other language in common. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
45. kimba: (responding to 43.) If you&#039;re going to get stuck into people for assuming Sapir/ Whorf, I think you had better not be so blase about assuming the existence of &amp;quot;the principles of UG&amp;quot;. The way you throw it in &amp;quot;jargonwise&amp;quot; I assume you mean the Chomskian notion, which will meet with plenty of disagreement. I suppose you could claim to mean any statements about properties which all/no languages have, but then the 2nd clause is vacuous. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
46. dan: (responding to 45.) I do tacitly assume UG. To me, it seems a whole lot easier to swallow than SW, or other theories of linguistic relativism. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
47. dtate: (responding to 46.) What a strange comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as I can tell, UG (as a hypothesis about language) and SW (as a hypothesis about language and thought) are independent. Buying into UG wouldn&#039;t make me more or less apt to buy into S/W, nor vice versa. They&#039;re certainly not competing theories. They address totally different topics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think the giveaway here is the phrase &amp;quot;linguistic relativism&amp;quot;. I can&#039;t tell from context exactly what Dan means by this. It looks like the link is something like &amp;quot;S/W says that how you think is influenced by what language you think in; UG says there&#039;s an underlying deep structure common to all languages; conflict&amp;quot;. But of course there is no conflict; every language has its own grammatical and etymological idiosyncrasies, whether deep structure exists or not, and these idiosyncrasies are the fuel for S/W. The existence of deep structure cannot refute the fact that languages differ in significant ways, any more than a proof of S/W would disprove the existence of deep structure common to all languages. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
48. lojbab: (responding to 43.) Whether UG is &#039;real&#039;, a question better discussed by others, I know of no useful evidence for the claim [that UG forbids unambiguous languages]. That there is no unambiguous language today is irrelevant, since nearly all languages evolved from some earlier language, interacting with other languages, etc. Most sources of ambiguity probably can be tied to these evolutionary processes. Lojban might also succumb to such ambiguity, but as an a priori language constructed after the printing press, having (unlike other languages) a complete prescription it has a lot better likelihood of re- sistance to &#039;undesirable&#039; change. There is no way to tell if the misuse of &#039;hopefully&#039; or split infinitives would have entered English if a) there had not already been a tolerance in English for non-standard usages of this type and b) either of these truly resulted in mis-communication. Note that &#039;misplaced modifiers&#039;, which can in some instances cause miscommunication, are a different question, and are probably frowned on by most speakers IF they become aware of the ambiguity. In Lojban, of course, the speaker WILL be more aware of the ambiguity - at least so we hope.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
49. dan: (continuation of 1., from 43.) In the unlikely event that a native Lojban speaker ever exists, it will probably actually be speaking its parent native language with some version of Lojban vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
50. cowan: (responding to 49.) I presume you mean &amp;quot;parents&#039; native language&amp;quot;. As I mentioned above, its parents might not have the same native language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
51. dan: (continuation of 1., from 49.) But even that is unlikely since even the phonology (like everything else in the language) is arbitrary, and it is questionable how easy it would be for a child to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52. rjohnson: (responding to 51.) Isn&#039;t the phonology of any language arbitrary in this sense? No language avails itself of all the possibilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
53. dan: (responding to 52.) Yes, but certain combinations are unlikely to occur.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
54. cowan: (responding to 53.) I don&#039;t understand this claim. The phonology is the least arbitrary thing about the language. Lojban has six vowels and 18 consonants, all of which are exceedingly familiar and found in many languages world-wide: German, for example, has all of them (although Lojban &#039;j&#039; is rare in German and found mostly in borrowings from French). On the suprasegmental level, Lojban has two levels of stress (primary and weak) and significant pauses; where &amp;quot;pause&amp;quot; may represent either a complete silence or a glottal stop. Tone is not signifi- cant, as mentioned above. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
55. dan: (responding to 54.) See what I mean about arbitrary? The Lojban engineers have decided that tone isn&#039;t important and that pauses are the same as glottal stops. This is lunacy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
56. rjohnson: (responding to 54. and 55, also 1.-8.) By the way, both of you [cowan and dan] are abusing the term &amp;quot;tone&amp;quot;. You&#039;re talking about pitch. Tone, by definition, involves significant pitch contrasts. You can&#039;t have tone be unimportant in a language. If morphemes are systemati- cally contrastive in pitch, the language has tone; if not, there is no tone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
57. dan: (responding to 56.) Guilty as charged. Sorry about that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
58. cowan: (responding to 56.) Thanks for this correction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
59. cowan: (responding to 55.) Of course it&#039;s arbitrary in the sense that we select some features of the total human phonological repertoire and not others, but so does every natural language. The phonemes we use are found in many natural languages, and there exists at least one natural language (viz. German) that contains all of them. The consonant clusters and diphthongs we use are also all to be found in natural languages. We go to some pains to prevent&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
difficult clusters like *td or *fz; we also limit which consonant clusters can be used initially to a subset.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pauses and glottal stops are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in Lojban in the sense that they are allophones. In German, the phones [r] and [R] are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in exactly the same sense: they are allophones of /r/ in free variation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
60. lojbab: (responding to 55.) Tone is reflected poorly or not-at-all in writing systems of the world, as is pitch and speech rhythm. Audio-visual isomorphism therefore precluded these being critical to disambiguation and we chose better ways to convey the equivalent meanings. In each case where we did so, a similar mechanism is found in some natural languages. For example, in French &amp;quot;est-ce que&amp;quot; almost exactly parallels Lojban &#039;xu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
61. dan: (responding to 60.) Which is one of the many reasons that linguists concentrate on spoken language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
62. lojbab: (continuation of 60.) Pause in Lojban is used only to preserve morphological distinctions. For example, you must pause before a [word-initial] vowel to protect against it being absorbed into the previous word either as a final vowel in a consonant-final word or as a diphthong. A glottal stop provides similar separation of sounds; hence it is phonemically equivalent to a pause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In neither case was the decision arbitrary; we had a good reason for each. This is in general true throughout Lojban - a decision to choose one form over many was primarily to achieve unambiguity. In other circumstances, we chose the least restrictive form possible (thus making tense, number, gender, etc. optional and hence more highly marked forms).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
63. dan: (continuation of 1., from 51.) In typically blundering fashion, the Lojban engineers have ignored this issue, concentrating entirely on the learnability issue for SECOND language acquisition, that is, adults learning a second language, with no native competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
64. cowan: (responding to 63.) (You raise an interesting side issue here. Do you argue a priori that persons learning a language as adults cannot achieve competence which is empirically indistinguishable from that of native speakers?)&lt;br /&gt;
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65. dan: (responding to 64.) I guess I do. A Native French speaker might learn English well enough to be indistinguishable from a native English speaker, but he or she will not have native competence. In other words, you cannot ask that speaker a question regarding something like say, contraction and get a truthful answer.&lt;br /&gt;
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66. daj: (responding to 65.) Even worse, you would never be able to use this speaker as a guinea pig in a SWH test, since he would be a native speaker of two languages, so his perception of the world would be conditioned by both. This would be true for any bilingual speaker, it seems to me. So you&#039;ll never be able to test the SWH until you have a &amp;quot;pure strain&amp;quot; of Lojban speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
67. cowan: (responding to 66.) Some Lojbanists agree, and say we will need to wait for a second generation. Another viewpoint is that by having people who speak Lojban+English, Lojban+French, Lojban+Vietnamese, Lojban+Navajo, etc. etc. we will be able to factor out the Lojban contribution when compared with people bilingual in two natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&amp;quot;Bilingual&amp;quot; here means &amp;quot;bilingual within the acquisition period&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
68. dan: (continuation of 65.) E.g. In English, one can contract words like &amp;quot;he&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;is&amp;quot;, but only in particular circumstances. Hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  He&#039;s a nice boy&lt;br /&gt;
  Isn&#039;t he a nice boy?/* yes, he&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The starred sentence is ungrammatical, the contraction is not acceptable in that position. It is acceptable in the first sentence. A native French speaker who knows English might be able to guess on that, but he or she certainly would NOT have a reliable intuition on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
69. rjohnson: (responding to 68.) I have to agree with Dan here, sort of. I don&#039;t think the distinction to be made is between L1 and L2 competence, though, but between critical- period learning and post-critical-period (or &amp;quot;adult&amp;quot;) learning. I think it&#039;s pretty clear that they&#039;re two different processes (though of course they may share some features). An adult learner may indeed learn a language well-enough to pass an operationalist sort of test (i.e., be indistinguishable from a native speaker), but shouldn&#039;t be taken as a reliable judge of grammaticalness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
70. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 64.) We know that the phonology is learnable by children, because it is a subset of phonologies which children can and do learn. We have every reason to believe that the vocabulary is learnable: the words are similar in morphology to those existing in natural languages, and the consonant clusters and diphthongs are all to be found in natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
71. dan: (responding to 70.) Yes, but if there is a theory of phonological universals, then it is argued that certain combinations simply won&#039;t ever occur. Did the Lojban engineers take this into account, accept at the most rudimentary level? I doubt it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
72. cowan: (responding to 71.) What do you call &amp;quot;rudimentary&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Brief summary of Lojban phonology omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rules are arbitrary, yes, but I should like to be shown wherein they are unlearnable. Furthermore, they need to be known only to people inventing new words: several of them are relaxed for borrowings and names.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
73. lojbab: (responding to 71.) An interesting conditional, that first sentence. Is Dan claiming that there is a theory or not? Is he claiming that certain combinations won&#039;t occur? He seems to be claiming that Lojban has combinations that cannot occur but gives no examples. He&#039;ll have trouble finding them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We did indeed take phonological universals into account in several ways. In the first place, as John Cowan mentions, the set of permitted sounds was selected as a subset of those found in many languages. We constrained consonant clusters by restrictive rules that recognize phonological properties like voiced/voiceless assimilation and included redundancy as a criteria in assigning words, reducing the number of minimal pairs distinctions. We added the apostrophe to prevent unwanted diphthongization; it represents devoicing of the glide between two adjacent vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, the frequency of sounds in predicate words should statistically parallel the sum of the corresponding frequencies in our six source languages. (For those unfamiliar, most of Lojban&#039;s predicate root words are formed by maximizing the appearance of phoneme patterns found in those source languages weighted by approximate number of speakers.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would say that more time has been spent overall during Loglan/Lojban&#039;s history on the interaction between phonology and morphology than on any other single feature of the language. This is probably because it is the best documented feature of the design and also the most easily compared to other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
74. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 70.) What we don&#039;t know is whether the grammar is learnable by a child. We won&#039;t know that until the experiment is tried, first by raising a bilingual or trilingual child, and then eventu- ally as part of a community of monolingual speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
75. lojbab: (responding to 63.) We&#039;ve hardly ignored the question [of learnability by children]. However, from what I&#039;ve read, children learn languages from adult role models. We need adult fluent speakers therefore in order to teach children. Within the next two decades at least, all such adults will be 2nd language speakers. So why not concentrate now on what we can do something about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
76. dan: (responding to 75.) My point from my first posting on has been that I can&#039;t imagine any child being able to acquire something as baroque as Lojban in its current form. My understanding of acquisition is that non- ambiguity is sacrificed in favor of learnability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
77. cowan: (responding to 76.) Maybe so. After all, the English my daughter spoke at the age of two was hardly &amp;quot;acceptable&amp;quot; as a full adult English, although now (at three) her English is clearly acceptable (she seems to be a bit in advance of her age-mates in this respect). There is no reason to think that a Lojban-speaking child would be different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In one respect, some of the simpler Lojban constructions like observatives (bare predicators without arguments) are more analogous to young-child linguistic forms. The English utterance &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; is a bit deviant, in that English- speakers would think it rather odd for an adult to say simply &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; on seeing a dog, but for a child this utterance would be quite acceptable. The exact Lojban translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot;, on the other hand, is fully grammatical and not at all deviant.&lt;br /&gt;
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78. lojbab: (responding to 76.) Baroque? Compared to natural languages, Lojban is incredibly simple, and children acquire natural languages (else they would not be &#039;natural&#039;). Now whether Lojban will be seen as simple to a child is a valid question, but there is no reason to believe otherwise, and we&#039;ll know soon enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can non-ambiguity be sacrificed in favor of learnability in natural languages acquisition? They aren&#039;t unambiguous in the first place. To whatever extent there IS unambiguity, the sheer complexity and irregularity of most of the language would overwhelm this. Lojban, being so much simpler to express unambiguously, MIGHT be able to be acquired unambiguously or at least relatively so (with the child growing into more accurate usage with age and understanding just as children of the natural languages do).&lt;br /&gt;
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79. dan: (responding to 78.) I was suggesting that ambiguous languages are easier to learn than unambiguous ones. There aren&#039;t any unambiguous natural languages that I know of, so it&#039;s difficult to test this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An unambiguous language would require enough additional baggage, that it would make learning it unwieldy. An ambiguous language has fewer rules. And just for the record, let&#039;s get things straight with regard to our definition of &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot;. By rules, I mean rules that are used to characterize the language, not rules in the pre- scriptive sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The average child learns his or her language (barring language disorders or highly unusual circumstances) quite rapidly, ambiguity and all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As to whether Lojban is baroque or not, the question is this: If there were hypothetical native speakers of Lojban, how complicated would an abstract characterization of their competence be? If such an abstract characterization were more complicated than a similar characterization of say, Klammath, then I would stand by my assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, one might beg the question and ask whether such abstractions are meaningful at all (as the Schankians do), but that&#039;s a whole other ball o&#039; wax (quite interesting too).&lt;br /&gt;
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80. lee: (responding to 76.) The discussion of irregularity might profit from distinguishing types of irregularity:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# semantic irregularity - no one-to-one correspondence between form and meaning, as for example when phonological changes produce variations in the form of a stem;&lt;br /&gt;
# morphological irregularity - no uniform way of deriving related words, as in the examples of archaic paradigms;&lt;br /&gt;
# distributional irregularity - certain combinations of forms (or features) are not permitted, for instance when obligatory phonological changes eliminate some phone(me) combinations;&lt;br /&gt;
# form class irregularity - it is not possible to distinguish forms or their categories directly from their pronunciation, as when a phonological change is extended from word-internal to cross word boundaries, making it more difficult to tell where words begin and end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then it&#039;s interesting to catalog the various ways that changes which remedy one sort of irregularity may create others.&lt;br /&gt;
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81. lojbab: (responding to 80.) Each of these has a corresponding &#039;ambiguity&#039;, as well, in which various degrees of inconsistency and inconstancy exist in the rules for building and interpreting forms of each of these types. Lojban has defined regularity and unambiguity in the last three. We can expect to directly observe the causes and effects that result in changes in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
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82. lojbab: (continuation of 75., responding to 63.) There are several Lojbanists that have indicated intent to try to raise their children as bilingual Lojban/natural-language speakers, probably the best that can and should be attempted until/unless Lojban proves its value. I cer- tainly wouldn&#039;t ask anyone to raise children solely Lojban- speaking; it would smack of human-experimentation to me (an issue I&#039;m fairly sensitive on).&lt;br /&gt;
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83. dan: Some Lojban propaganda claims that the language has been characterized by a transformational grammar, but this has never actually been demonstrated, and seems quite unlikely, since I would imagine that a native speaker would be required to characterize a Lojban-user&#039;s competence. Since there probably will never BE a native Lojban speaker, how can you possibly ask one whether XXXX is an allowable sentence or word of his or her language? Current Lojban speakers are of no use, because they do not have such intu- itions about the language any more than a fluent second- language speaker of French (a French speaker whose native language is say Hindi) would have such intuitions about French.&lt;br /&gt;
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84. cowan: (responding to 83.) This illustrates a confusion between natural and constructed languages. In a natural language, the source of competence is the native speaker&#039;s intuition. In a constructed language, during the construction phase (which Lojban is still in, though rapidly coming to the end of it), competence is defined by the constructor. A grammatical Lojban sentence is what we say it is, where &amp;quot;what we say&amp;quot; is defined by the baselined vocabulary lists and machine grammar. The reference for syntactic correctness is a parsing program, and when a Loj- banist utters something the program can&#039;t parse, we say that he has made an &amp;quot;error&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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85. dan: (responding to 84.) Once again, completely arbitrary. In English, or any other natural language, grammaticalness is also defined by what we can say and understand. &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is perfectly grammatical, because people use and understand it all the time. Only English teachers and guys like John Simon sit around and contemplate (by their own arbitrary standards) whether or not it&#039;s okay to split infinitives and use &amp;quot;hopefully&amp;quot; right. The rest of us just do it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
86. cowan: (responding to 85.) Correct, and therefore for a natural language like English, the only way to determine the grammar is by {in,intro}spection. But this has nothing to do with the grammar being in transformational form, i.e. a set of PS rules generating a deep structure with a set of T rules generating the surface structure from them. Such a grammar has not been fully worked out for Lojban, but is clearly not impossible in principle. It also happens to be the case that PS rules are sufficient to generate the whole of the language&#039;s surface structure all by themselves (probably not true of English), although the PS-only version of the grammar which we have now baselined does not explain semantic equivalences of different structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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87. cowan: (continuation of 84.) But this will not always be so. When the language is fully defined and baselined, it will be &amp;quot;launched&amp;quot; and the normal processes of linguistic change will be allowed to operate. We expect that some grammatical forms, vocabulary items, etc. will be &amp;quot;pruned&amp;quot; because nobody uses them. They will remain in the formal language definition, available to all speakers in the same sort of way that archaic grammar or vocabulary forms are available to speakers of natural languages: viz. if they take the trouble to look them up. At that time it will be appropriate to consult human speakers (and AI programs, if any) to investigate correct linguistic behavior a posteriori.&lt;br /&gt;
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88. dan: (responding to 87.) Org! What a mess! &amp;quot;Correct&amp;quot; linguistic behavior? Lojban will be a linguistic battlefield with prescriptivists running around telling people that they can&#039;t say such-and-such a sentence, because it can&#039;t be parsed by Lojban&#039;s computationally sound grammar (verified by a genuine computer!).&lt;br /&gt;
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89. cowan: (responding to 88.) Don&#039;t be silly. Of course Lojbanists can do that if they want to, just as speakers of English and other languages can if they want to. Again, you are ignoring the difference between a language that is born a priori and one that isn&#039;t. After the language is delivered from the womb, anything can and quite probably will happen in the way of changes, which will not be dictated from above.&lt;br /&gt;
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90. lojbab: (responding to 85.) Not true for English, really, nor for all natural languages. English is of course not even a single language in the sense that there are many dialects spoken around the world [not all 100% mutually understandable]. Many of these do not use constructs found in the &#039;standard language&#039;, even though they are obviously understood by their listeners. But how could we say this if we didn&#039;t have a concept of what the &#039;standard language&#039; is, which is distinct from what we say and understand. (Of course, the definition of standard language varies from country to country, too. British speakers would even less accept some of Dan&#039;s Americanisms, and in some cases might misunderstand them. (Actually, there is some variation among &#039;standard Englishes&#039;, as well, as evidenced by differences in the various published style manuals.))&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, each language has registers, in some of which certain constructs may be permitted, but which in others are unacceptable. Try using &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; in a journal paper. In other languages, such as Japanese, registers are so structured and formalized as to almost make for independent languages. Understanding is not a sufficient criteria for grammaticalness..&lt;br /&gt;
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91. dan: (responding to 90.) This is where I disagree most strongly. To my mind, grammaticalness. is determined solely by whether a member of a speech community finds a given utterance acceptable. Members of my speech community will, if they put their biases aside, admit that &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is a perfectly acceptable sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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92. cowan: (responding to 91.) Northrop Frye tells a story about going to a hardware store and asking for something or other, and being told &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got any&amp;quot;. The speaker then glanced at Frye and added, &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; This remark, says Frye, has what literary critics call texture: it means 1) we haven&#039;t got any, and 2) you look to me like a schoolteacher, and nobody&#039;s going to catch me talking like one of those.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; in question is part of an English-speaker&#039;s competence, which is not limited to separating the intelligible from the unintelligible, but also can separate what kinds of grammatical constructions may be used by what speakers in what situations. *&amp;quot;Lazy the jumps fox quick dog brown over the&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in all situations. *&amp;quot;Me see she&amp;quot; is probably also ungrammatical in all situations, although perfectly intelligible. *&amp;quot;Mama like pretty spoon&amp;quot; is good toddler-English but unacceptable adult-English. *&amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in some dialects (mine, for example) and entirely grammatical in others. *&amp;quot;For all x, for some y, such that x is a man, such that y is a fish, x loves y&amp;quot; is grammatical to me, but many native speakers would reject it as almost as unintelligible as my first example. I have asterisked all of these examples as ungrammatical for some speakers in some situations.&lt;br /&gt;
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93. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) And of course, for many nations there are academies that dictate the standard language for that nation (I use nations instead of languages since, for example, Brazil has an academy separate from that of Portugal, although both work together at times.) English has no academy, but this is an exception. Therefore we end up with individuals setting themselves up as a self-appointed &#039;academy&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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94. dan: (responding to 93.) Thank God we don&#039;t have such academies. Take a look at how much attention is paid to such academies too. French speakers are constantly being advised to avoid English borrowings like &amp;quot;Picque-Nique&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Le Weekend&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Fair du ski&amp;quot;, but they use them constantly and of course they should be allowed to if they want to.&lt;br /&gt;
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95. cowan: (responding to 94.) Discussions of &amp;quot;allowing people to do things&amp;quot; are political, not linguistic. Linguistics as such is silent on the subject of what people &amp;quot;should&amp;quot; do, permit, or forbid.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Does a rock roll down hill because it wants to or because it has to?&amp;quot; An animist would plump for the former reply; most educated Westerners, probably the latter. But a pure operational scientist would reply &amp;quot;Neither. Rocks simply do roll down hill, that&#039;s all.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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96. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) This does not make &#039;academies&#039;, or language prescription &#039;wrong&#039;. Dan&#039;s libertarian view of language is understandable given his American and English language cultural values. In addition, there is a difference between the prescriptive/descriptive debate from the point of view of linguists as opposed to that of regular speakers. Most people, for example, expect a dictionary to be prescrip- tive, even thought the linguists who write them disagree.&lt;br /&gt;
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97. dan: (responding to 96.) I prefer &amp;quot;anarchistic&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;libertarian&amp;quot; for personal reasons :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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98. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Lojban has a valid reason (unambiguity) to prescribe its standard form. If Dan chooses to learn Lojban, and then chooses to deviate from those standard forms, he may be expanding the language. Of course, he also may have trouble getting his computer to understand him. Since ideally Lojban&#039;s target &#039;speaker&#039; population may include computers, failure to express himself so that the computer understands him (unambiguously) means Dan is speaking ungrammatically even by his own definition.&lt;br /&gt;
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99. dan: (responding to 98.) Whaaaat? The goal of Natural Language Understanding should be for the system to understand human languages, not for human speakers to alter their speech so that a computer can understand it. Since we&#039;ve already established that Lojban isn&#039;t unambiguous, any Lojban NLP system is already going to be having a hissy fit over plastic cats.&lt;br /&gt;
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100. cowan: (responding to 99.) Of course. But such a Lojban NLP can 1) recognize unambiguously that it has detected an ambiguity, 2) ask for help, and 3) get an unambiguous response. If a Lojban computer sees &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; in its input, it can ask &amp;quot;lu slasi mlatu li&#039;u ta&#039;unai pei&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;quote plastic cat unquote expand- the-metaphor how?&amp;quot; and expect a response such as &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi ke&#039;a cidja lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that it eats plastic&amp;quot;, or else &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi zo&#039;e zbasu ke&#039;a lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that something makes it from plastic&amp;quot;. And other responses are of course also possible.&lt;br /&gt;
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101. dan: (continuation of 99.) Besides, many prescriptivists have used the same arguments against various &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; forms. The argument against &amp;quot;double negatives&amp;quot; is that they are &amp;quot;illogical&amp;quot;. The fact that no one seems to have a bit of trouble understanding them doesn&#039;t matter I suppose.&lt;br /&gt;
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102. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Some other &#039;natural languages&#039; are indeed defined exactly as Lojban is, by an a priori &#039;committee&#039; that selected the valid forms. Norse, Modern Hebrew, and several African languages were defined by some nationalists taking features from other languages used by the target population (and in the case of Hebrew, from incomplete knowledge of a dead language), and arbitrary features sometimes where the several languages collided. These all became living natural languages. Why can&#039;t Lojban, which is merely doing the same on a grander scale?&lt;br /&gt;
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103. dan: (responding to 102.) I would imagine that all of them underwent creolization, which seems to be nature&#039;s way of smoothing things out, linguistically. If Lojban develops a native speech community, then it will undoubtedly do the same, probably in all of the worst sorts of ways (the moral equivalent of &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; in Lojban) and Lojban will be yet another zany, irregular, ambiguous, beautiful language. In other words, what&#039;s the point?&lt;br /&gt;
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104. cowan: (responding to 103.) Well, perhaps you are right. Then we&#039;ll have learned something. And perhaps you are wrong. And then we&#039;ll have learned something else. That&#039;s what makes this experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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105. cowan: (continuation of 87.) There will also be growth in the language: technical terms in all fields will be borrowed and Lojbanized as needed; new compounds will be freely created, and it is even possible that new grammatical constructions will be built by usage, although we have really tried to be quite comprehensive in this domain.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t understand what the stuff about transformational grammar vs. any other kind has to do with this issue. A transformational grammar is simply certain kind of formal description. Doubtless many natural languages exist of which no transformational grammar has ever been given: do TG [transformational grammar - a linguistics theory] advocates doubt that such grammars are possible a priori?&lt;br /&gt;
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106. dan: (responding to 105.) TG is a formal description that requires native speakers to confirm. Even you have admitted that there are no native speakers of the language. How can there be a transformational account of a language without native speakers? Yet Bob LeChevalier told me point blank that such a transformational account did exist.&lt;br /&gt;
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107. cowan: (responding to 106.) I believe what Bob meant to convey was that an investigation had been made to see whether the semantic equivalence of certain Lojban constructions could be represented by T rules which would transform certain syntax trees into other trees in a meaning-preserving way. Indeed, this can be done, although it has not been done for every detail of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, I see no difference between TG formal descriptions and others in this respect. Every formal description of a natural language requires speakers of that language to confirm or disconfirm it, but a constructed language is launched with an a priori formal description from which (or from simplified/clarified forms of which) new speakers learn.&lt;br /&gt;
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Think of Lojban as being spoken by people who live so far away that we can&#039;t ever go there to talk with them, but they have sent us some of their Lojban as a Second Language materials used for instructing their neighbors in their language. Magically, these materials have been translated into English. Some of us now learn this language and begin to speak it. Our children hear us speaking it and either learn it natively (i.e. as other languages are learned) or else they don&#039;t. Either way, a datum for experimental linguistics. A board of psychologists then administers some tests to us and our children to see if either population thinks differently (in some sense) from a matched control group. Another datum for experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many generations pass and the language undoubtedly changes. All this history is forgotten. A Linguist (capital L) comes on the scene and decides to study this language called Lojban; perhaps he is himself a native speaker. He records, using whatever linguistic theory is current at that time, a model of the grammar (a posteriori) of the language as it is spoken then. An archaeologist digs up a copy of the original Lojban textbook, machine grammar, etc., and historical linguistics goes to work reconstructing the way the language has changed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why not?&lt;br /&gt;
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108. rjohnson: (responding to 106.) Dan, you&#039;re conflating the formal (mathematical) and the psychological issues here. A transformational grammar is simply a class of formal device for characterizing (generating) sentences. it has nothing to do with competence. You could (and do) have transformational grammars for characterizing computer languages, strings of arbitrary symbols, etc. &amp;quot;Transformational&amp;quot; belongs in the same paradigm as &amp;quot;phrase structure&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;finite state&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;indexed&amp;quot; and so on; these are classes of grammars, not empirical theories.&lt;br /&gt;
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109. dan: (responding to 108.) I suppose you&#039;re right again, although perhaps my studies in Montague Grammar have made me lose sight of psychological vs. mathematical distinctions :-) Seriously though, one does rely on grammaticalness. judgements when trying to determine if a certain movement is viable: for example in the case of &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1 a. Which movie(t) do you want to see? (t) &lt;br /&gt;
  b. Which movie do you wanna see?&lt;br /&gt;
2 a. Which team(t) do you want (t) to win? &lt;br /&gt;
  b. *Which team do you wanna win?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presence of the trace in (2) between &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;want&amp;quot; blocks &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction.&lt;br /&gt;
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110. rjohnson: (continuation of 108.) The (now moribund) theory of Transformational Grammar, on the other hand, is a set of claims about linguistic competence, largely abandoned by generativists in favor of GB [this, as well as other jargon terms in this paragraph, is a linguistic theory of grammar] and other systems. Among these claims is the idea that the basic data are the grammaticalness. judgements of native speakers. But this has nothing to do with the formal notion of transformations, and can be applied in LFG, GPSG, dependency, or just about any other formal framework as well. The original poster [cowan], quite properly, kept the two levels separate.&lt;br /&gt;
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111. dan: (responding to 110.) Well you&#039;re probably right again. I&#039;m not a professional linguist yet - only a Cognitive Science type.&lt;br /&gt;
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112. rjohnson: (continuation of 110, also responding to 46.) Of course you [assume UG]. You&#039;re an MIT student. For most of the rest of the world, however, the jury is still out, and it&#039;s a mistake to assume what you&#039;re trying to prove.&lt;br /&gt;
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113. dan: (responding to 112.) I&#039;m not actually, I just post from here :-( I don&#039;t want to misrepresent myself as an MIT linguist. I studied cognitive science as an undergrad at Hampshire College, with a strong bias towards linguistics. As you can see, I play fast and loose with some of the terminology.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for assuming what we&#039;re trying to prove, isn&#039;t that the crux of this argument? Most Chomskian linguists assume UG, and most Lojbanists assume Sapir/Whorf. In the words of The Brady Bunch &amp;quot;I guess we&#039;ve all learned a valuable lesson&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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114. kimba: (responding to 113.) The point was supposed to be, if you are slamming someone else&#039;s assumptions, the least you can do is write your own in black ink in a clear and legible hand, rather than saying (effectively) &amp;quot;this is inconsistent with UG and therefore wrong&amp;quot;. As I ought, if I were actually saying anything:-) I find neither [UG nor SWH] particularly convincing or illuminating.&lt;br /&gt;
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115. lojbab: (responding to 106.) The claim I made is that John Parks-Clifford, a linguist involved with Loglan since 1975, told me that he investigated 1970&#039;s Loglan using TG techniques during the 70&#039;s and was able to demonstrate to his own satisfaction that all features of Loglan were amenable to TG analysis, and that he found no &#039;unusual&#039; transforms. More recently, a student in Cleveland has been attempting to develop a more formal TG description of the language. This will undoubtedly take a while, but he re- ported to me earlier this year that not only had he found nothing unusual, he had identified some elegant features of the language using TG techniques. The features he reported are indeed consistent with the language definition, and in- cluded aspects that the student had not been taught (i.e. that we had not put into any published documents that the student had received. &lt;br /&gt;
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116. dan (conclusion of 1., from 63.): Ultimately, the enterprise of Lojban is at best an intellectual puzzle, and perhaps on this level, it is interesting. To learn a &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; (perhaps &amp;quot;code&amp;quot; would be better) like Lojban, based on principles of logic can be seen as the equivalent of a Pig-Latin for intellectuals and engineers.&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Lojban: is it naive?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. [The following exchange between cowan and daj began with a one-liner from daj that Lojban was &amp;quot;naive&amp;quot;. cowan wrote back privately to ask &amp;quot;Why do you say that?&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
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2. daj: Well, the three things that jump out at me right away are: (1) You can&#039;t design a culture-free language. Simply the choice of categories to represent in the language (tense, aspect, definite- indefinite, etc.) are culture-bound. In addition, there&#039;s a lot of talk in that description about using metaphor to extend the bare bones of the language. Can there be anything more culture-bound than metaphor (not the mechanism, but the choices of images)?&lt;br /&gt;
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3. cowan: (responding to 2.) Absolutely correct. Lojban is not a culture-free language; every language creates its own culture if the SWH is correct, and we assume it correct (its falsity is the null hypothesis) for purposes of the Lojban experiment. Assuming SWH, then lei lojbo &#039;the mass of those pertaining to Lojban&#039; will create their own culture, with its own metaphors and characteristic idioms.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. daj: (responding to 3.) Then what&#039;s the point of the language? All you would end up with is a bunch of creolized Lojban daughter languages, wouldn&#039;t you?&lt;br /&gt;
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5. cowan: (responding to 4.) We hope not. Of course in the very long term that can happen to any language: Latin split into lots of daughters, some of which are more or less heavily influenced by other languages (Rumanian being the prime example). The idea is that Lojban ways of thought (assuming there are such things) will influence the creation of Lojbanic culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. cowan: (continuation of 3.) Lojban deals with the category problem (which we refer to as the &amp;quot;metaphysical assumptions&amp;quot; problem) by minimizing required categories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tense, aspect, and definiteness are optional categories of discourse in the language, but can be represented when needed. We can also represent things like the observa- tional status of assertions, the emotional attitude which goes with them (there is an entire set of paralinguistic grunts for expressing emotions), and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. daj: (responding to 6.) Since every known language (as far as I know) has a set of required categories, they must fulfill some function. Again, real speakers would make the categories compulsory and create something different from the original design.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. cowan: (responding to 7.) Maybe, maybe not. Since the non-required categories are expressed by marked forms (using the particles), sentences that don&#039;t express categories are always possible. Again, they might come to seem archaic or childish, but that&#039;s a second-order effect. When a 2-year-old says &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; we usually consider that a bit deviant, but the Lojban literal translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot; is fully grammatical Lojban - a predicate with all arguments elliptically omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. daj: (continuation of 7.) Another point. A few weeks ago you posted a list of Lojban pronouns. It struck me then that this paradigm was probably too rich for human language. This is just a gut feeling, but it seems to me that in real languages the number of elements in a con- trastive set is pretty severely limited.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. cowan: (responding to 9.) Depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;contrastive&amp;quot;. The 43 Lojban pronouns are indeed contrastive in the sense of being interchangeable in the grammar, but they aren&#039;t semantically interchangeable.  They fall into several categories: personal, bound-vari- able, free-variable, question, relativized argument, reflexive, demonstrative, pro-utterance, pro-argument, and indefinite. Within each category there are only a few pronouns (or &amp;quot;anaphora&amp;quot; more technically - &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot; in Lojban). Grammatically, &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dei&amp;quot; are interchangeable, but no one will confuse &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; (the listener) with &amp;quot;this utterance I am now uttering&amp;quot;!&lt;br /&gt;
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11. daj: (continuation of 7., from 9.) I can see that it would be possible in some cases to have people speaking different dialects of the same language, where each dialect over-specified some categories from the point of view of other dialects. After all, we don&#039;t really have much trouble understanding Chinese speakers of English who simply eliminate the verb tense system and replace it with adverbs. But I don&#039;t think this would work with the pronouns, since a listener wouldn&#039;t know what any given pronoun meant without knowing the entire set.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. cowan: (responding to 11.) Correct. On the other hand, it may be that lots of the ba&#039;ivla don&#039;t come up much. For example &amp;quot;da&#039;e&amp;quot; meaning &amp;quot;a far future utterance&amp;quot; probably won&#039;t be used very often, and someone who doesn&#039;t understand it or even recognize it may still be quite a fluent speaker. One can speak English fluently without knowing &amp;quot;thou&amp;quot;, for example, although certainly it is a personal pronoun contrasting with &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; and the rest. The occasions for its use (in Modern English) just aren&#039;t that common.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. daj: (continuation of 2.) (2) If you&#039;re going to design a language that people are actually going to speak, you&#039;re going to have to deal with whatever it is that leads human languages to be the way they are. One obvious universal of real language is a floating equilibrium between ambiguity and redundancy. If you want to design a language without ambiguity, you&#039;ll have to figure out what role ambiguity plays and compensate for the loss. There are many other characteristics like this, such as why semantically external predicates like negation and tense tend to become reduced and attached to internal pieces of a sentence, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. cowan: (responding to 13.) Lojban is not free of ambiguity, only of phonological and syntactic ambiguity.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. daj: (responding to 2.) First phonological ambiguity. In your original posting you gave examples which seemed to indicate that Lojban words were polysyllabic, with syllable-initial stress. I assume that your claim that analysis of the input stream into words was unambiguous has to depend on that stress placement - in other words, a word begins where a stress occurs and includes all following unstressed syllables. But in natural languages, there are unstressed words - clitics - plus other uses of stress for phrase boundary identification, discourse function, etc. How are you going to prevent phonological ambiguity from creeping into Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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16. cowan: (responding to 15.) I must have misled you. Lojban stress is as follows: stress on content words (&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot;) is penultimate. All root brivla are two- syllabled, so stress appears to be initial.&lt;br /&gt;
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Structure words (&amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;) are one or two syllables and may be stressed freely. A structure word with final stress immediately followed by a brivla must have a separating pause (which can be a full pause or just a glottal stop). Thus in &amp;quot;le bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot; has penultimate stress; if &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is unstressed it can be proclitic [sounded together with the following word], whereas if it is stressed a pause is required to forbid the reading &amp;quot;lebri di&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Names have free stress, which must be indicated by capitalization in writing when it is not penultimate. Names are always followed by pause, and must be preceded by either pause or one of the cmavo &amp;quot;la&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;la&#039;i&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; (the first three are articles, the last a vocative marker). These same cmavo may not be embedded in names, so &amp;quot;*doil&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;Doyle&amp;quot; is not a valid Lojban name; it would have to be &amp;quot;do&#039;il&amp;quot;, roughly &amp;quot;Dough-heel&amp;quot;. (The Lojban &#039; character represents IPA [h], or more accurately a voiceless vowel glide.)&lt;br /&gt;
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17. daj: (continuation of 15.) And then there&#039;s syntactic ambiguity. Math/logic notation has an extremely powerful device for preventing ambiguity - parentheses. With parentheses you can resolve &amp;quot;old men and women&amp;quot; into either &amp;quot;((old men) and (women))&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;(old (men and women)).&amp;quot; It&#039;s hard to imagine anything like this in natural language that could operate at more than one or two levels of embedding. Even with all kinds of contrastive stress and artificial intonation breaks we can&#039;t read even slightly complicated math formulas so that they can be written down correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. cowan: (responding to 17.) Lojban has lots of kinds of parentheses: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; for Boolean connective groupings, &amp;quot;vei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ve&#039;o&amp;quot; for strictly numerical/mathematical parentheses, &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for discursive parentheses (like these). These can be stacked up as required. Of course, if things get too complicated people may not be able to understand what is said, but En- glish has that problem as well. &amp;quot;The cheese that the mouse that the man that the woman married chased ate rotted&amp;quot; is grammatical, but not intelligible due to stack overflow in the listener. But the words do exist as a regular part of the language: if the worst comes to the worst, the listener could write down what is said verbatim, pass it through a machine parser, and figure out exactly what is bracketed with what. This ability could be quite useful for things like drafting regulations, which are notoriously ridden with unintentional ambiguity: having a parser looking over your shoulder as you write such a thing would help you in seeing ways in which your listener/reader could get confused, and clarifying them.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. daj: (continuation from 15., from 17.) Also, once you allow idiomatization into the language, you&#039;re going to have syntactic reanalysis, which will produce syntactic ambiguity. For instance, every language has some way of embedding one sentence inside another, and as far as I know, they all have ways of reducing the information in the embedded sentence. For instance, take a structure like (I like (I swim)), which can be realized as either &amp;quot;I like swimming&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I like to swim.&amp;quot; It&#039;s pretty clear that the action indicated by &amp;quot;swim&amp;quot; is subordinate to the main verb &amp;quot;like.&amp;quot; On the other hand, I don&#039;t think anyone would analyze &amp;quot;I am swimming&amp;quot; as (I am (I swim)). Here we think of &amp;quot;am&amp;quot; as being a marker on the main verb, so that the structure is [something like] (I (am swim)). But both structures are realized in actual speech as V-V sequences, and there are many such sequences that are hard to classify: &amp;quot;am to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am going to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am supposed to,&amp;quot; etc. This sort of reanalysis is extremely common and probably unavoidable in any real language.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. cowan: (responding to 19.) I&#039;m not sure how to comment on this. However, I guess the best point I can make is that in Lojban, the &amp;quot;surface structure&amp;quot; is quite close to the &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot;. We simply do not have things like embedding and tense marking being realized with the same forms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I like (I swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu mi limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I like the event-of I swim&amp;quot;. (I (am swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi ca limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I now swim&amp;quot;. The first form could be collapsed into &amp;quot;mi limna nelci&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;I swimly like&amp;quot;, which is one of the forms which is explicitly marked as semantically ambiguous: the exact way in which the liking is a kind of swimming is not indicated. This process of making a &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; (Lojban for &amp;quot;open compound&amp;quot;) is a kind of Lojban transformation, and the current grammar does not ex- press it - it is a grammar of surface structure alone, but a surface structure that is more like the deep structure of other languages. This is the kind of embedding we call &amp;quot;abstraction&amp;quot;: there are also other embeddings, involving description, relativization, metalinguistic comments, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. cowan: (continuation of 14.) Metaphors (which, as you say, are fundamental - they are Mandarin-type metaphors and really correspond more to nominal compounds in English) are semantically ambiguous, and there is also ambiguity in names and through the extensive use of ellipsis and defaults: the full translation of a simple utterance like mi klama is &#039;I/we go to somewhere, from somewhere, via some route, by some means&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. daj: (responding to 21.) But as soon as you allow these metaphors, you&#039;ve compromised universal comprehensibility, which I assume is one purpose of the language. Do you think a Mongol tribesman would understand &amp;quot;heart ache,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;dog days,&amp;quot; etc., or indeed would he have any way of knowing that &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t to be taken literally? &lt;br /&gt;
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23. cowan: (responding to 22.) There is a subtle point here. There is a marker for &amp;quot;figurative speech&amp;quot; which would be used on &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; and would signal &amp;quot;There is a culturally dependent construction here!&amp;quot; The intent is not that everything is instantly and perfectly comprehensi- ble to someone who knows only the root words, but rather that non-root words are built up creatively from the roots. Thus &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would refer to the literal heart and literal pain; what would be ambiguous would be the exact connection between these two. Is the pain in the heart, because of the heart, or what? But &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would not be a valid tanru for &amp;quot;emotional pain&amp;quot;, absent the figurative speech marker. It is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; (#*$@ English).&lt;br /&gt;
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24. daj: (continuation of 22.) In natural language words exist in paradigmatic sets: &amp;quot;No contrast, no content.&amp;quot; The meaning of &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot; would be determined in any single dialect by the categories that had become compulsory in that dialect. In other words, &amp;quot;I go&amp;quot; does not mean the same thing as German &amp;quot;ich gehe,&amp;quot; because in English it contrasts with &amp;quot;I am going,&amp;quot; while in German there is no such tense.&lt;br /&gt;
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25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Each root word in Lojban expresses an N-place predicate, and its meaning is defined by the significance of the N places. Thus &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; is a 5- place predicate meaning &amp;quot;A goes to B from C via route D by means E&amp;quot;. The Lojban design maintains that these five places are an essential part of the meaning of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;, and that any state of affairs not involving an agent, a destination, an origin, a route, and a means is not validly captured by the word &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. Most roots have 1, 2, or 3 places, and 5 is the maximum. Additional places (such as the time, the location, the purpose, etc.) can be expressed as well by an extensible set of tags, but they are not considered essential to meaning. In the case of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; there is no word which precisely &amp;quot;contrasts&amp;quot; with it in the sense of having exactly the same five places, although &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; (A transfers B to C from D via E) and &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; (A moves B from C to D via E) come close - the difference is that &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; involve physical objects, whereas &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t necessarily. But all Lojban predicates with the same number of places contrast in that they are freely substitutable, although perhaps nonsense-producing.&lt;br /&gt;
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26. cowan: (continuation of 14., from 21.) Negation, tense, etc. can be expressed either externally through the semantics or internally through the grammar. Negation in particular has gotten a great deal of attention: we split it into contradictory negation (with na or naku), contrary/ polar/scalar negation (with a variety of particles for simple contrary, polar opposite, and &amp;quot;scale neutral&amp;quot;), and metalinguistic negation (with na&#039;i).&lt;br /&gt;
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27. daj: (responding to 26.) Again, I think the evidence from natural language suggests that people won&#039;t tolerate very much paradigmatic indeterminacy. They will boil down all these choices to a few that seem particularly important to them.&lt;br /&gt;
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28. daj: (continuation of 2., from 13.) (3) You can&#039;t design a language &amp;quot;not based on any existing languages.&amp;quot; You might be able to choose totally arbitrary vocabulary, since vocabulary IS arbitrary, but interestingly enough, Lojban doesn&#039;t do that (words are based on U. N. languages as I remember). But in syntax the choices are limited, and Lojban seems to opt for a word-order language rather than a morphology language like Russian. Lojban is thereby biased toward languages that use word order to indicate structural relationships.&lt;br /&gt;
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29. cowan: (responding to 28.) You remember correctly. The relevant languages are Mandarin, English, Russian, Hindi, Spanish, and Arabic, weighted according to the numbers of speakers, and using a phoneme-matching algorithm to assign words with the highest figures of merit relative to the six languages. This mechanism is a &amp;quot;marketing device&amp;quot; to make the vocabulary easier to learn for speakers of any of those languages, especially Mandarin and English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Word order plays a fairly limited role in determining meaning: it determines which arguments of predicates are which, but can be overridden. Lojban is really a particle language: almost everything about the grammar is determined by which particles are used and where.&lt;br /&gt;
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30. daj: (responding to 29.) My mistake. But how do you come up with a culture-free list of particles?&lt;br /&gt;
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31. cowan: (responding to 30.) Again, we can&#039;t exactly. We attempt to be superinclusive, as I said above. The list of particles is large (~550) and if anybody comes up with a construct which cannot be handled by existing ones, we add one. Hopefully this process is now complete. The last few things to come in included the observationals (which say &amp;quot;how the speaker knows&amp;quot;, from Amerind languages), scalar negation, and the tense system, which is quite comprehensive (it covers space location and aspect as well as time). A few more may still need to be added to cover the needs of mathematics. &lt;br /&gt;
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32. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) I could go on. One obvious area is how Lojban indicates discourse functions like old and new information components of a sentence (or clause), whether it is iconic in tense sequences, whether it prefers coordination or subordination, etc., etc. All these factors are going to make it look like particular languages. All of them are going to have to be specified if the language isn&#039;t going to break up into dialects based on the way speakers of other languages implement unspecified features in their own speech.&lt;br /&gt;
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33. cowan: (responding to 32.) Discourse functions are handled by a large set of discursives, each of which has a polar opposite: things like specifically/generally, hypothetically/actually, metaphorically/explicitly, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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34. daj: (responding to 33.) These seem more pragmatic than discourse, but I admit the boundaries are fuzzy, and I may be using non-standard divisions. What I had in mind was the universally marked distinction between information that&#039;s already part of the conversation and information being introduced for the first time (in this conversation). English does it with articles (the/a) and intonation, Russian and Chinese do it with word order, Japanese does it with particles, etc., etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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35. cowan: (responding to 34.) The nearest Lojban equivalent to the &amp;quot;the/a&amp;quot; distinction is the &amp;quot;le/lo&amp;quot; distinction. &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;the fish, the thing(s) I describe as (a) fish&amp;quot;. It may be a whale, or a mermaid, or indeed my cat Freddy: as long as the listener understands what is meant, &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; is correct; &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is non-veridi- cal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Lo finpe&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;fish, a fish, some fish, the thing(s) that really is-a (are) fish&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Lo&amp;quot; is veridical and makes a claim; sentences containing &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; are valid only if the thing is as described (they may be vacu- ously true otherwise, but probably a human listener would consider them ill-formed semantically).&lt;br /&gt;
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36. cowan: (responding to 32.) I don&#039;t understand &amp;quot;iconic in tense sequences.&amp;quot; Could you explain further?&lt;br /&gt;
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37. daj: (responding to 36.) In many languages (Chinese is one, I believe) you can say &amp;quot;After I went home I went to bed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went home before I went to bed,&amp;quot; but you can&#039;t say &amp;quot;Before I went to bed I went home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went to bed after I went home.&amp;quot; Clause sequence has to match time se- quence. I think it&#039;s even impossible in Chinese to say &amp;quot;I&#039;m staying home because I&#039;ve got a cold,&amp;quot; since the presupposed cause has to precede the consequent. Many other languages, of course, have no such restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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38. cowan: (responding to 37.) Lojban has no such restriction. Of course, Chinese-native Lojbanists might be unlikely to construct Lojban sentences which violate this restriction, but they should be able to understand them passively if they are fluent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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39. cowan: (responding to 32.) Coordination and subordination are both fully supported. Lojban features redundant structures: there are often many ways to say &amp;quot;the same thing&amp;quot; semantically. Lojban&#039;s specified grammar is not a transformational one, but that is not to say that a transformational grammar cannot exist or is trivial. Lojban has a &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot; even though we didn&#039;t design it to! Usage will decide, for example, whether the subordinating or coordinating versions of &amp;quot;A is true because B is true&amp;quot; will become dominant.&lt;br /&gt;
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40. daj: (responding to 39.) But won&#039;t different versions become dominant in different areas? And if so, won&#039;t that defeat the purpose of Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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41. cowan: (responding to 40.) Remember that the purposes of Lojban are threefold: 1) experimental investigation of the SWH; 2) communications with computers; 3) international communication. Purposes 2) and 3) are effective if everybody can understand every construct (or almost every construct) even if they do not often use them in their own dialect. Purpose 1) probably cannot be satisfied until some people begin to speak Lojban as native bilinguals. There are native Esperanto speakers, whose parents had no other common language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Learning Lojban involves finding out about a rich set of structural resources. Some of these will go over automatically because they match your own language. Some will seem strange because they conflict with your language, and you will have trouble with them, but you will use them anyway because they are the easiest, shortest ways of saying what you mean in Lojban. The simple, unmarked forms of Lojban are the ones least like natural languages: the predicate grammar, the contradictory negation, and the logical (Boolean) connectives. The things that are &amp;quot;in there to emulate natural languages&amp;quot; are more heavily marked and so more difficult to exploit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The best example of this that comes to mind is the form of embedded sentence called abstraction: the (I like (I swim)) above. This is unnatural in English, especially in complex constructions, but is the most painless in Lojban: you wrap an entire predication into &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; brackets (you can omit the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; if no ambiguity results) and the result is suitable as an argument for another predication. So you find yourself saying the Lojban for &amp;quot;I like the event of I swim&amp;quot; even though that is not at all natural in English, because Lojban makes it easy. You can ellipsize it to &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu limna&amp;quot;, omitting the second &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hoping the listener will reconstruct it correctly if you want, but you know that this is ambiguous (or more accurately, vague) because of the omitted place in the embedded predication. The listener is also aware of this vagueness, and can ask &amp;quot;ma limna&amp;quot; (Who swims?) to get clarification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
42. cowan: (responding to 32.) [Dialectization] is certainly a known problem. All of us speak more or less pidginized versions of Lojban at best: we tend to exploit features that have parallels in English or our own languages. But the fact that the language is not very &amp;quot;large&amp;quot; means that it is possible to exploit the other re- sources after a modest amount of learning and so prevent Lojban from becoming an English-based code. The Lojban metaphor malglico &#039;that #*%^ English&#039; is applied to the tendency to copy English-based constructions into Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
43. daj: (responding to 42.) As long as it remains a pidgin language, there should be no problem. But your original posting indicated that speakers should be able to extend the language on their own. They can extend the vocabulary by combining the 1300 (?) basic words, and they can extend the expressive power of the language by improvising on the rather unspecialized grammatical structure. But here is where I think things will necessarily go awry. Speakers who extend Lojban on their own will do it in accordance with their own already established linguistic habits, and they will categorize their vocabulary according to their semantic habits (this is only a weak SWH, by the way). To the extent that Lojban becomes a real vehicle for communication, it will take on the characteristics of existing natural languages. It may be fun to see to what extent this can be resisted, but I really think it&#039;s hopeless to think that it can be prevented altogether. &lt;br /&gt;
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44. cowan: (responding to 43.) I agree about &amp;quot;prevented altogether&amp;quot;. We do try to resist, though, sometimes by bending over backwards to avoid &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot;. Consider the following translation of Simonides&#039; epigram at Thermopylae: &amp;quot;ko cusku fi le me la lakedaimon. doi klama do&#039;u fe le nu mi nu tinbe le ri flalu kei morsi&amp;quot;. Literally this is: &amp;quot;(Imperative!) You express to what-I-describe-as pertaining to Lakedaimon, O comer/goer, the event-of (we are (the event-of (something) obeys the laws of the-last-mentioned) kind-of dead).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think you will admit that this slop is not English, and that the grammar underlying this Lojban utterance is sui generis and not something derived from English in the manner of a code. (I know no Greek, by the way, so my translation is from English not from Greek.) &lt;br /&gt;
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45. daj: (continuation of 43.) The alternative, of course, would be to extend the language by design. But this would produce either a language that looked like some other human language (and therefore unlike most human languages) or a &amp;quot;PL/1&amp;quot; language, so rich in devices that subsets would develop, fragmenting the language into dialects. &lt;br /&gt;
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46. cowan: (responding to 45.) Indeed, Lojban is comparable to PL/I or Ada in complexity. But its scope is much larger than any programming language&#039;s. If English were to be put in purely phrase-structure form, the result would be incomprehensibly large (to say nothing of desperately ambiguous). I don&#039;t believe that the entire repertoire of Lojban devices is beyond human learning, although some of the recursive complexities made possible may be beyond human understanding (as is the case in English also).&lt;br /&gt;
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47. cowan: (continuation of 42.) In translating a story involving dialogue, for example, I found it necessary to make frequent use of the observational particles of the language, which certainly had no counterpart in the English version. These mean things like &#039;I hear&#039;, &#039;I observe&#039;, &#039;I deduce&#039;, &#039;I know by cultural means&#039;, etc. Likewise, in delivering the lines realistically, it was necessary to supply paralinguistic attitudinal indicators, as Lojban makes no use of tones of voice (part of its phonological unambiguity) that an English-speaker would surely use.&lt;br /&gt;
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48. daj: (responding to 47.) Why? Have these categories become compulsory in your dialect? :)&lt;br /&gt;
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49. cowan: (responding to 48.) Of course not! But to make the meaning of the story clear to those who didn&#039;t belong to my culture, the observationals were indispensable. We know that when somebody says &amp;quot;It must be the wind&amp;quot; in reference to a sound, this is a conclusion from incomplete evidence: but a Mongol tribesman might not. Hence the observational helps to make the cross-cultural meaning clear. For communication among, say, my own family (if they spoke Lojban), I would probably not need such a thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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50. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) Frankly, I don&#039;t think the designers of Lojban knew much about language. &lt;br /&gt;
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51. cowan: (responding to 50.) Guilty, especially in the beginning. But we&#039;ve learned a lot, even if we take a non- standard slant on some things. Lojban/Loglan has a &amp;quot;historical&amp;quot; dimension as well, even if the history is only some 35 years old, and there are things in the language that probably would be removed now or changed if an a priori redesign were done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is not designed to be a &amp;quot;universal notation&amp;quot;, just a language. Although it shares many features with other languages, it is clearly not a dialect or a code or a jargon. It has its own feature set and its own characteristic way of exploiting the set: the set is large, but the language is still small because of its high degree of regularity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether it is possible to internalize the language, in the sense of gaining Chomsky-competence, is still an open issue. I believe it is possible: I am beginning to think in the language&#039;s terms now, and so are several other ad- vanced students; some of the paralinguistics are also becoming internalized.&lt;br /&gt;
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52. daj: (responding to 51.) I have to apologize for my snotty attitude there. You&#039;ve obviously done more homework than I thought at first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I still can&#039;t help thinking, though, that you&#039;re underestimating the incredible complexity of human language, both in its use and in its potential for change. I doubt that you will be able to create a language free of irregularity, ambiguity, etc. On the other hand, you may have a really interesting semi-laboratory experiment in the process of creolization, and that would make the whole thing worthwhile in itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
53. cowan: (responding to 52.) Well, new purposes always help. These letters are being passed to the president of the Logical Language Group, by the way - I hope you don&#039;t mind - for comments.&lt;br /&gt;
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54. daj: (responding to 53.) I&#039;ll try to watch more and snarl less. Thanks for the education.&lt;br /&gt;
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55. cowan: (responding to 54.) je&#039;e .uicai (&amp;quot;Roger. Happy!!!)&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Why use Lojban for S/W?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: S/W is pretty much disavowed by the linguistic orthodoxy in this country. I&#039;m told that anthropologists are still interested in it, but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. rjohnson: (responding to 1.) There is no linguistic orthodoxy in this country (and why do national boundaries enter into this question anyway? There is certainly no linguistic orthodoxy in the world). Linguists are a pretty fractious bunch. There may be a generative orthodoxy (though I doubt it), but they don&#039;t speak for me.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dan: (responding to 2.) When was the last time you saw an article in any of the journals on Sapir-Whorf?&lt;br /&gt;
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4. rjohnson: (responding to 3.) Well, I suppose it depends on which journals you look at. I&#039;ve seen articles fairly recently that are &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; in some sense here and there. It&#039;s certainly not a major topic in the field at present, but there are any number of reasons that could be, includ- ing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* it&#039;s held to be clearly true;&lt;br /&gt;
* it&#039;s held to be clearly false;&lt;br /&gt;
* other ideas are exciting people nowadays;&lt;br /&gt;
* people are stumped as to how to approach it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My guess is that it&#039;s all of the above, variously.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. dan: (continuation of 3.) The introductory textbooks on linguistics that I&#039;ve looked at seem to cover the topic [of S/W] briefly, if at all, and then as a discredited hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. rjohnson: (responding to 5.) In the totally unscientific sample of textbooks on my desk, Lyons has a fairly sympathetic discussion of it; Finegan and Besnier have only a page or so, mostly sympathetic but critical; Eysenck&#039;s cognitive psych textbook gives it an extended but guarded treatment; Bolinger gives it a mild thumbs down (&amp;quot;exaggerated&amp;quot;) but is essentially in sympathy with some form of the idea; and Akmajian et al. don&#039;t mention it anywhere I can find. Everyone that mentions it finds it attractive but in need of revision or special understanding. Finegan and Besnier, for instance, say: &amp;quot;Today few scholars take the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis lit- erally. Many linguists take the position that language may have some influence on thought but thought may also influence the structure of language&amp;quot; etc. If we strip away the mealymouthedness (which I&#039;ve spared you most of), they seem to be saying that the influence goes both ways, a position that neither Sapir nor Whorf would have any objection to.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. dan: (continuation of 3., from 5.) This doesn&#039;t disprove anything, but it certainly seems to indicate a lack of interest in the subject currently. I didn&#039;t mean to imply that all linguists were of one mind, but on this topic, there seems to be a pretty general agreement, in what I&#039;ve read.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. rjohnson: (responding to 7.) I&#039;ll agree there&#039;s not a whole lot of interest among the people who currently dominate the field. This is not to say that those people are committed to a position on either side of the issue - it&#039;s just not relevant to their work. &amp;quot;Exotic&amp;quot; languages are no longer the center of interest that they were in the heyday of Sapir and Whorf. That doesn&#039;t mean the issue is resolved, though. &lt;br /&gt;
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9. rjohnson: (continuation of 2.) No matter how you try to slant the issue, the status of the Sapir-Whorf &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot; is still very unclear. (Personally, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s even a hypothesis; it&#039;s a problematic, it&#039;s a topos, it&#039;s an ideological litmus test.) But in any event, though there may be unanimity on this point in some linguistics departments dominated by Chomskyans, for the rest of us (and that&#039;s most of us) the debate is still alive. (No anti-Chomsky animus expressed or implied.)&lt;br /&gt;
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You don&#039;t know enough about linguistics [either]. Anyway, the question of orthodoxy is beside the point. This is not something you vote over. There have been some suggestive studies on both sides; there has been nothing conclusive, and I see little indication that most of the partisans on both sides have really gotten to terms with what the debate is all about. \&lt;br /&gt;
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10. dan: (responding to 9.) I&#039;m calling it as I&#039;ve seen it. When I was hyped up on Sapir-Whorf myself a few years ago, I went through any number of texts looking for information on it and came to the conclusion that most linguists that I read seem to disavow it. I guess I read the wrong books. Even the anti-Chomsky linguists didn&#039;t seem to have much to say on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. rjohnson: (responding to 10.) This isn&#039;t some kind of insult: you don&#039;t know enough about linguistics to say. There are several reasons for this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# No one does. The field is too big and too heterogeneous, the social networks too fractured, to be able to gauge consensus adequately.&lt;br /&gt;
# As you just told us, you&#039;re not a trained linguist (yet). Pronouncements about what&#039;s orthodox are hazardous enough for the most highly trained finger-licker (if you follow the imagery); one&#039;s words have a way of coming back and biting one on the ass here.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&amp;quot; But anthropology, and psycholinguistics, and rhetoric, and such areas, are where a lot of the SW work goes on nowadays. These people aren&#039;t disqualified from contributing simply because they don&#039;t hold down lines in the budget of a linguistics department.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. dan: (responding to 9., from 10.) I never said anything about &amp;quot;voting&amp;quot; on anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. rjohnson: (responding to 12.) But isn&#039;t that what orthodoxy amounts to? Chomsky was took a few highly unorthodox positions once, and was roundly &amp;quot;outvoted&amp;quot; by the field. That changed. It&#039;s arguments that decide these things, and evidence (and funding, and ...), not which way the wind is blowing in any given decade. Orthodoxy is fickle. 20 years ago everyone was into intrinsic rule ordering, squishes and (trans)derivational constraints. No one talks about them now - but the underlying problems are still there waiting to be explored. Likewise the complex of problems and questions people lump together as &amp;quot;the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) If I&#039;m missing something, please let me know, rather than telling me I don&#039;t know what I&#039;m talking about. As it happens, I have tried to learn about s/w and have considered the issue at great length. I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob? I don&#039;t think so.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. rjohnson: (responding to 14.) Dan, I thought you didn&#039;t take this personally! Of course you&#039;re not an ignorant boob, not at all.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, it would be a lot of fun to handle this this way:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;gt;I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob?&lt;br /&gt;
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Sorry - the weak must die. :)&lt;br /&gt;
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16. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) In several cases, I&#039;ve misunderstood what people were saying, and been misunderstood in kind. This happens, but I like to think that I&#039;m relatively informed about linguistics, based on my education and my intent to pursue graduate studies in the field.&lt;br /&gt;
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[... continuing on the same topic later]&lt;br /&gt;
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17. dan: [SWH] is something I&#039;m rather interested in (as a curiosity, I used to be utterly convinced by it too), and I&#039;m actually glad the Lojbanists have dredged it up for serious discussion again. I question their methods though, why not do psychological tests on existing languages, rather than trying to come up with a whole new one? Presumably, if S/W is confirmed by the Lojban project, no one would assume that it is only true for Lojban itself. This goes back to my feeling that Lojban is at best, an intellectual puzzle. If you can learn it and gain some degree of fluency in it, well that&#039;s fine for some people. Not for me.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. dtate: (responding to 17.) Hey, we agree! Weird...&lt;br /&gt;
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S/W is about natural languages, of which we have lots. Presumably, if S/W is true, then it is true now, for the languages currently being used. The only problem might be if all current natural languages are sufficiently similar in their world-views that S/W doesn&#039;t kick in. If this is true, then it would constitute (IMHO) a practical refutation of S/W, since S/W was originally motivated by observation of the divergence among current natural languages. There is theoretical interest in knowing if a constructed language like Lojban has a detectable effect on thought patterns, but not nearly as strong as the interest in whether there is a difference between (say) Korean and Japanese thought patterns, or German vs. French, or Sioux vs. Hopi.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;d go even farther, though, and question what it is that we hope to learn using Lojban that we couldn&#039;t learn better (and more easily) using natural languages. There&#039;s hardly any chance of Lojban ever becoming a widespread native tongue, so any conclusions we get about people whose primary language is Lojban will include the strong bias of self-selection for Lojban proficiency by the subject or some close relative of the subject...&lt;br /&gt;
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19. cowan: (responding to 18.) [We hope to learn] the same kinds of things we learn about the mechanics of falling bodies by rolling them down inclined planes rather than dropping them from the Leaning Tower of Pisa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;JCB&#039;s [the founder of Loglan] plan was to attempt to build a language tool that would have the major features of natural languages, but would have some strong warping in its structure that was deviant from all other natural lan- guages. This warping would attempt to take normal structures that presumably set limits on thought, and &#039;push them outward in some predictable dimension&#039;. His language tool would be an extreme case, not a &#039;typical language&#039; but &#039;a severely atypical one&#039;, in order to enable any Whorfian effects to be more easily seen. He attempted to put &#039;decisive but non-essential differences&#039; into the language; he still needed the language to be speakable....&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The structural extreme he chose was to model the grammar on the well-understood structures of symbolic logic. There are no natural languages based on a predicate grammar, yet logicians are skilled at analyzing the structural relationships between natural language and formal logic.... The essence of these concepts is that &#039;it forces on its speakers a reasonably small set of assumptions about the world ... perhaps the smallest possible set&#039;. &#039;Any speaker, from any culture, should find it possible to express in Loglan what he takes for granted about the world ... without imposing ... or being able to impose these as- sumptions on his auditor&#039;....&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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(Outer text by Robert LeChevalier, from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #6. Inner quotations are from James Cooke Brown, Loglan 1, 3rd Edition.)&lt;br /&gt;
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20. lojbab: (responding to 18.) Psychological and other tests of S/W were performed using natural languages in the 1950&#039;s - at least two large studies, though I don&#039;t have references handy. They turned up fairly negative results, and this is one reason why S/W went into eclipse. (Other factors included an inability to agree even on what the actual hypothesis was; i.e. how to formulate it, the racial/political issue, attacks on Whorf&#039;s scholarly credentials, and the rise of Chomsky&#039;s theories which were orthogonal to S/W and soon attracted all the money).&lt;br /&gt;
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The tests were not conclusive, though. One major problem is that with natural languages, you can&#039;t ever be sure that hidden cultural features might obscure the results. There are also more variables to control with natural language speakers. (This is NOT the same as saying natural languages are &#039;too similar&#039;; merely that we don&#039;t know how to test for the differences.)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does Lojban improve on this? Being better defined as a language than any natural language allows better monitoring of actual usage vs. some theoretical norm. Having a structure drastically different from any natural language should lead to a much larger S/W effect than between two natural languages. Furthermore, if a S/W effect is found, its nature and manifestation will help ex- perimental design for a new test based on natural languages, when we better understand what we&#039;re looking for. Being culture-free (at least initially) makes it much easier to filter out cultural effects. Being different from all language families allows better cross-cultural studies. Because there are several identifiable areas of structural difference, there is a greater likelihood of finding effects that may be constrained by the TYPE of structure (S/W may not be general, only specific to certain types of structures).&lt;br /&gt;
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As to Lojban becoming widely spoken, you have to decide how wide the goal is. Esperanto managed up to a million speakers in 100 years, and the world population and mass media needed for rapid expansion of a language teaching effort should make Lojban&#039;s potential expansion rate significantly higher, if people find a reason to learn it. Right now the primary such reason is as a linguistic toy, as Dan accuses, since there is no obvious financial gain. Thus we indeed have considerable self-selection in the community today. This can easily change:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* development of computer applications could make learning Lojban a necessity external to personal choice in some fields;&lt;br /&gt;
* development of cross-cultural/foreign language education applications could lead to more widespread use of Lojban at a low level by large segments of population. Some of these will pursue more advanced study of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
* identifying any preliminary S/W effects that are perceived as beneficial will greatly heighten interest in learning the language among potential beneficiaries.&lt;br /&gt;
* if research using Lojban is funded, some people might actually be paid to learn Lojban as test subjects (and teach it to their children?). These would presumably be chosen to negate self-selection factors, though willingness to accept payment for this sort of thing is itself a kind of selection (all psychological studies of volunteers could be questioned on this basis, but such studies are standard in the field, so presumably there is capability to filter out such bias in the testing methods).&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, if the language in useful as a tool, it will be used. As the size and diversity of the community grows, self-selection becomes less of a bias factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, self-selection isn&#039;t an irremediable bias. Nor is the lack of a large community of speakers. In internal discussions, some Loglan/ Lojban supporters have argued for preliminary S/W testing using second-language adults, notably language inventor J. C. Brown who proposed in his book on the language (Loglan 1, 4th edition) a study where adults of several cultures are all taught Loglan over a summer and tested before and after for changes in &#039;the way they think&#039;. (I personally think his design to be flawed and too simplistic, but if Lojban&#039;s S/W effects are truly dramatic, they could show up in 2nd language fluent speakers. And such appearance would pretty much guarantee that people would find a way to build a testable &#039;culture&#039; of 1st language speakers, perhaps by raising children bilingually during the &#039;critical period&#039;, or even from birth.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, current thinking in the community is that &#039;logical&#039; thought or expression is not necessarily the aspect most likely to generate noticeable S/W effects. The removal of grammatical ambiguity from modification (as exemplified by the much-discussed plastic cat food lid) seems to heighten creative exploration of word combination. This comes from self-observation, and is a linguistic toy feature, but could lead to profound changes in problem- solving in a community speaking Lojban, which ought to qualify as a bona-fide S/W effect.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other areas of possible benefit are (surprisingly in a &#039;logical&#039; language) emotional expression. Lojban has a fully developed set of metalinguistic and emotional attitude indicators that supplant much of the baggage of aspect and mood found in natural languages, but most clearly separate indicative statements from the emotional communication associated with those statements. This might lead to freer expression and consideration of ideas, since stating an idea can be distinguished from supporting that idea. The set of possible indicators is also large enough to provide specificity and clarity of emotions that is difficult in natural languages. It is easy to imagine enormous changes in communicative activities that involve emotions, and corresponding &#039;world view&#039; changes as a result. Again, only time will tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Time is a significant factor here in evaluating Lojban&#039;s relevance to linguistics today. In the next 10 years, there will be ONLY 2nd language adults and perhaps a few children raised by non-fluent adults. For at least a generation after that, immediate self-selection will be a significant potential factor, and Lojban will be at best questionably a &#039;living language&#039;, making its results less than certain.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, for linguists TODAY, interest in Lojban can be tied to any of several major channels:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* possible use of 2nd language speakers to get preliminary ideas on whether S/W is likely;&lt;br /&gt;
* making sure that Lojban&#039;s design is as linguistically sound as we can make it given current linguistic knowledge, ensuring that eventual S/W results are meaningful;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing tools and techniques for eventual S/W testing; trying to identify what the effects will be and how they can be detected;&lt;br /&gt;
* actually participating in the language community, using your linguistic skills to help quickly build a set of initial usage patterns based on the unambiguous language (and vocabulary, idiom, etc.) that when passed on to &#039;native speakers&#039; in the future provides them with a better, more robust, starting point for evolutionary change;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing techniques of teaching the language as a second language, when there is no existing idiom. Related to this is possibly using Lojban&#039;s simple structures and culture-free properties to enhance language education.&lt;br /&gt;
* preparing other, non-S/W related research based on Lojban&#039;s features and its availability as a experimental linguistics platform or alternatively as a totally self- contained &#039;model&#039; of a language;&lt;br /&gt;
* using Lojban for other linguistic research that is not as dependent on a &#039;native&#039; base, including studies of language learning (1st and 2nd), as a medium for culture- free recording of linguistic information in studies of other languages (translating to English may help an English-native reader of your paper get the gist of what a foreign language is saying, but is subject to all the problems of English cultural usage and ambiguity. There are a lot of non-native English readers who may not be aware of those features. (In short, using Lojban as an &#039;international language of linguistics&#039; much as IPA serves for phonetics).&lt;br /&gt;
* and finally, serving as peer reviewers to make sure that those of us working directly on the project don&#039;t get our heads too far into the clouds. This of course requires that you know something of what we&#039;re trying to do, which is why we keep bombarding this forum with so many long messages :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
The following are additions to the bibliography of Sapir- Whorf Hypothesis materials compiled during the discussions on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here are some references to discussions of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. One is recent; the Fishman article as far as I know has not really been replied to anywhere that I know of. (The first part of the bibliography is courtesy of Alan Munn, University of Maryland, who made these com- ments).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown, R. (1957) &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism and Parts of Speech&amp;quot;, Journal of Abnormal Social Psychology 55, 1-5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown, R. and E. Lenneberg (1958) &amp;quot;Studies in Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in E. Maccoby, T. H. Newcomb &amp;amp; E. L. Hartley (eds.), Readings in Social Psychology (3rd ed.), New York: Holt, Rinehart &amp;amp; Winston, pp. 9-18.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the same volume, &amp;quot;The Function of Language Classification in Behavior&amp;quot;, by John B. Carroll and Joseph B. Casagrande, pp. 18-31. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fishman, J. (1960) &amp;quot;A Systematization of the Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Behavioral Science 5, pp. 232-239. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hoijer, H. (1954) Language in Culture (Comparative Studies of Cultures and Civilizations, No. 3; Memoirs of the American Anthropological Association, No. 79), Chicago: University of Chicago Press. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kay, P. and W. Kempton (1984) &amp;quot;What is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot;, American Anthropologist pp. 86, 65-79. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whorf, B.L. (1939) &amp;quot;The relation of habitual thought and behavior to language&amp;quot;, in B.L. Whorf (1956) The Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, Cambridge MA: MIT Press. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These articles are both for and against SWH; The Brown papers and the Kay/Kempton paper are attempts to test the hypothesis. The Fishman article discusses the results of some experiments and where they leave us with respect to various versions of SW. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Sapir-Whorf references: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alford, Danny K. 1978. &amp;quot;The Demise of the Whorf Hypothesis (A Major Revision in the History of Linguistics)&amp;quot;, Proceedings of the 4th Annual Meeting of the Berkeley Linguistic Society 4:485-99.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hymes, Dell, 1968. &amp;quot;Two Types of Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in Sociolinguistics: Proceedings of the UCLA Sociolinguistics Conference (1964). Ed. by W. Bright. Janua Linguarum Series Major, 20. Mouton: The Hague. pp. 114-167.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lucy, John, 1985. &amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s View of the Linguistic Mediation of Thought&amp;quot;, in E. Mertz and R. J. Parmentier, Semiotic Mediation: Sociocultural and Psychosocial Perspectives, Orlando: Academic Press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McNeill, David, 1987. &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism: The Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Chapter 6 of Psycholinguistics, A New Approach, New York: Harper and Row. pp. 173-209.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Esperanto and Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neal@druhi.ATT.COM (Neal D. McBurnett)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;loren@tristan.llnl.gov (Loren Petrich)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. neal: Esperanto is much easier to learn than English or any other ethnic language because it has few irregularities and it has a phonetic writing system. In studies done with English school children it was demonstrated that one year of instruction in Esperanto gave the students the same level of language competence as five years of studying French. Once you learn to conjugate one verb, you know how to conjugate them all!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. daj: (responding to 1.) I agree 100% that an artificial language is easier to learn as a second language, and as a medium of international communication, something like Esperanto may make more sense than English. In fact, after teaching English as a foreign language for a couple of years, I came to the conclusion that it would make much more sense to teach Pidgin English than real English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But when pidgins become the primary language of a community, they cease to be regular and simple. Why? Is creolization a degenerative process, or do the irregularities have a function in language? I think we need an answer to this question before we assume that we can construct a &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; language and use it as a real medium of communication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) On the other hand, why not invent a completely regular language, with a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; that values that regularity, and observe what if any irregularities come into existence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. dtate: (responding to 3.) Because you can&#039;t create a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; by fiat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. lojbab: (continuation of 3.) Lojban is not limited in linguistic research application to testing Sapir-Whorf; I&#039;ve given a lot of my own effort to ensuring that the design is robust enough to allow other studies. Pidgins and creoles of the world have all evolved from interaction between two or more already irregular and highly complex languages. Variables to watch in analyzing the evolution of the language are too many and too poorly understood. Lojban is both much simpler and highly regular. Presumably as a result, the variables affecting pidginization and creolization, and indeed all other manner of linguistic change will stand out much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, as a fledgling &#039;international language&#039; that differs structurally from all of the &#039;first languages&#039; of the world, the studies of evolutionary processes can be conducted over and again as Lojban interacts with each of the languages and cultures in which it is introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other areas of possible Lojban application include language universals (Lojban is relatively neutral on some of these, supporting many competing forms; the ones that survive or spread as the language becomes a &#039;living&#039; language&#039; are thus worth studying to find out why.) and universal grammar (if Lojban proves to be acquired by chil- dren and adults as easily as natural languages, UG will have to be able to explain it).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that a small number of Lojban speakers (especially in a specific speaking locale) would be expected to show evolutionary effects more quickly, enhancing the chances of observing such effects during a short research period. We&#039;ve set an early prescriptive policy towards the language precisely to allow enough of a fluent speaker base to form to preserve some type of linguistic identity to serve as a starting point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. pepke: (responding to 2.) &amp;quot;Degenerative&amp;quot; is kind of a loaded term. It may just be the point of view. If you start off with an artificially &amp;quot;perfect&amp;quot; language, just about any change will seem degenerative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. lojbab: (responding to 6.) Not in the case of Lojban. ONLY a change that introduces structural ambiguity is automatically &#039;frowned upon&#039;, and I personally doubt there is a major evolutionary force in language that promotes such ambiguity &#039;for it&#039;s own sake&#039; - there would have to be some other explanation for an ambiguity to be introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most other types of changes (word formation rules, phonological changes, preference in word order among them) would not be inherently degenerative. No one in the Lojban community thinks that we&#039;ve created a &#039;perfect&#039; language, only an &#039;adequate&#039; one for communication and linguistic research. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
8. loren: (later in the discussion) I wonder how Lojban handles (1) words for opposites and (2) verb aspects (if present).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. cowan: (responding to 8.) The term &amp;quot;opposite&amp;quot; is a bit vague. Among its 1300+ root words, some have &amp;quot;opposites&amp;quot; and some don&#039;t. There are words for both &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; is a root but &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is not. Since the root words are primarily chosen for ease-of-use in making compounds, this was justified primarily by the desire to make shorter compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a faction which has argued that there are too many root words (and that opposites in particular should be stripped out); another faction holds that there are too few (that choosing &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is an unwanted bias). In fact, having a list of root words at all is ipso facto a bias, but it is a known bias which can be allowed for. The alternative is having to construct 4-5 million distinct words with no compounding rules at all to cover the vocabulary range of the world&#039;s languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The general Lojban solution lies in the four particles &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot;, which are four kinds of scalar negation. This is distinct from contradictory negation (&amp;quot;It is not the case that...&amp;quot;) which is represented in Lojban by &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;naku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot; is nonspecific scalar negation, analogous to English &amp;quot;non-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;lo na&#039;e gerku&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;a non-dog&amp;quot;, which in principle could be anything that is not a dog, but probably means some other kind of animal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; is polar opposite scalar negation, analogous to some uses of English &amp;quot;un-&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;in-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Beautiful&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;melbi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;to&#039;e melbi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;large&amp;quot;) means the same as &amp;quot;to&#039;e cmalu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;unsmall&amp;quot;), and vice versa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; is scalar neutral negation. This arises when a scale whose opposing ends are &amp;quot;X&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e X&amp;quot; has a natural midpoint. &amp;quot;no&#039;e melbi&amp;quot; for example might be translated &amp;quot;plain&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ordinary-looking&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot; is affirmation, and has the same meaning as no particle at all. It is chiefly useful to deny one of the other particles in conversation [ed. note, also for emphatic affirmation].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Lojban also has another type of negation called metalinguistic negation, where the adequacy of the utterance is denied due to category mistake or what have you. The particle &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot; indicates that what precedes it (or the whole last utterance, if nothing precedes in this utterance) is erroneous in some such way. If a Lojbanist asks another:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
xu do sisti le zu&#039;o do rapdarxi le do fetspe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
literally:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(True or false?) You cease the activity of repeat-hitting your female-spouse?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or idiomatically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Have you stopped beating your wife?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a good and sufficient answer is &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The above sentence could be expressed with the aspect grammar rather than with the word &amp;quot;sisti&amp;quot; (cease), but I don&#039;t know the language well enough to do so yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense/aspect system of Lojban is one of the most complex parts of the grammar, and I am far from sure that I understand it altogether. Fortunately, it is 100% optional. Everything it can express can also be expressed semantically through the predicate grammar, or just omitted altogether.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rather than trying to explain the whole thing systematically, I will simply give an unsystematic catalogue of the kinds of things that can be expressed. Note: any of these items may be combined either by logical connectives (and, or, xor, etc.) or by non-logical ones (joined with, mixed with, union, intersection, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also worth mentioning that Lojban tense is &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot; and that once set it propagates to all following untensed sentences [ed. note: This is the default pragmatic interpretation for many contexts; however there may be contextual circumstances where tense does not carry over, such as:] In stories, this is modified a bit by the assumption that narrative flows in time, so each sentence may represent a time later than that of the preceding one. One may, however, by proper use of the time offset machinery, tell stories backwards or inside-out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, Lojban tense handles both time relations and space relations, where time may be treated either as sui generis or in an Einsteinian way as the fourth spatial dimension. Time and space are formally parallel: for each, there is a way of specifying an origin, one or more offsets from the origin (directions in time or space), and an interval around the point thus determined. In the case of space only, the interval may be specified as 1-, 2-, 3- or 4- dimensional. In addition, there is machinery for rep- resenting motions in space, but not in time. Should time travel become practicable, the 4-dimensional facilities of the space motion grammar may become useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Intervals may also be modified by either or both of two kinds of modifiers. One type is a quantified tense, which may be either objective (corresponding to English &amp;quot;never&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;once&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;twice&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; for time, or &amp;quot;nowhere&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;in one place&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;everywhere&amp;quot; for space) or subjective (things like &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;continuously&amp;quot;). The other type is an &amp;quot;event contour&amp;quot;, handling things like &amp;quot;during&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the (natural) end of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the termination of&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also a mechanism for specifying the actuality/potentiality status of a predication: things like &amp;quot;can and has&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;can but has not&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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Separate from all this, Lojban prepositions (really case tags) can be used as adverbials also, and are grammatically almost interchangeable with the tenses. Likewise, the tenses can be used prepositionally. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; represents the past tense (time direction in the past), but means &amp;quot;earlier than&amp;quot; as a preposition. &amp;quot;bai&amp;quot; on the other hand is the preposition &amp;quot;under the compulsion of&amp;quot; but means &amp;quot;forcedly&amp;quot; when used as an aspectual. This list of prepositions/adverbials/ aspectuals/case tags is extensible to any predicate whatsoever by using the particle &amp;quot;fi&#039;o&amp;quot; which makes a predicate into an aspectual.&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Lojban gismu Vocabulary&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ivan Derzhanski&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. lojbab: [part of a longer discussion on Lojban roots] We wanted to maximize ease of learning, BUT not at the expense of cultural neutrality. Loglan (generic) thus maximizes reflecting the sequences of phonemes in a given word from the corresponding words in the source languages, weighted by speaker population. Thus &#039;blanu&#039; has the phonemes in order of English &#039;blue&#039; and Chinese &#039;lan&#039; (with appropriate tone which I don&#039;t have handy). The result is intended to be words that are distinctly different from those of any one language, but which sound &#039;natural&#039; to speakers of the source languages and also have an indirect cognate value - not one that is necessarily obvious, but one that can be used to learn the word if it is pointed out.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. ivan: (responding to 1.) If it is pointed out indeed. I speak Russian, English, Spanish and Hindi, and I know some Arabic, but my attempts to analyze some Lojban words and to discover their roots failed almost totally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) At first contact, you WILL need to have the connection pointed out. But I suspect that after the connections are pointed out for a few words, someone with your language experience will begin to see the patterns. One problem, of course, is that we go for aural recognition, NOT visual recognition, and use Lojbanized phonetics. The Procrustean bed of Lojban morphology (all roots are of the pattern CCVCV or CVCCV) also constrains the result enormously. The algorithm we use attempts, within the framework of this morphology, to maximize aural recognition for an active student of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Incidentally, once you get used to them, the regularities in Lojban words have their own aesthetic value, just as Nick&#039;s portmanteau words from Esperanto do. Lojban words have a lot of medial &#039;n&#039; and &#039;r&#039; and initial fricatives &#039;j&#039;, &#039;c&#039;, and &#039;s&#039;, all derived from the heavy Chinese weighting. I have a little trouble with the fricatives unless I&#039;m relaxed - I get &#039;she sells sea shells&#039; type tongue twisters, but I presume the Chinese will find it pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. ivan: (responding to 4.) No offence intended, but I&#039;d like to hear the Chinese confirm this. For all you know, they may not. Schleyer went out of his way to put as few &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;s as possible in Volapk words, so that the Chinese will be happy. I hope at least his Chinese find it easy to say &amp;quot;obs&amp;quot; `we&#039; or &amp;quot;coecs&amp;quot; `government officials&#039; (i.e. `judges&#039;), because I don&#039;t. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. lojbab: (responding to 5.) That of course is the problem with any a priori word-making scheme. Especially without strong aid from native speakers. We have had one Chinese speaker look at this question directly, but since she is also fluent in German and English, she isn&#039;t necessarily an unbiased observer. The reason for the high sibilant frequencies though, is that several Chinese consonants map into Lojban &#039;c&#039;, &#039;s&#039;, and &#039;j&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, there is a balancing act. Chinese is favored by the weighting scheme, but as you point out, we have &#039;r&#039; and &#039;l&#039; as phonemes which are much more common in other languages. Still, a high percentage of Lojban roots have syllable ending &#039;-an&#039; making &#039;n&#039; such a common letter in the language, its frequency exceeds most vowels (in a language more vowel rich than English because of all the CV and CVV structure words).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We had to make guesses on how to achieve recognizability in other languages, (and were also constrained to be consistent with 30 years of prior work by language inventor Brown). Ideally, there would have been scientific testing of our algorithm in native speakers of each language before making the words, but this wasn&#039;t possible and indeed wasn&#039;t important enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The important thing was to have a neutral word-making method that did not favor any one language population, and paid at least lip service to recognizing language diversity. We also wanted non-random words, with phonemes occurring in orders that are speakable and familiar, and we got this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 4.) Some of the initial consonant clusters look intimidating, but Ivan won&#039;t mind them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. ivan: (responding to 7.) I certainly don&#039;t. I don&#039;t take them all for granted, but they are not intimidating in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. lojbab: (continuation of 7.) (and might prefer them)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. ivan: (responding to 9.) ... prefer them to what? Not to simple consonant-vowel alternation, no. I wouldn&#039;t miss the clusters if they weren&#039;t there. But they are, and I won&#039;t complain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. lojbab: (responding to 10.) One of the most frequent comments about Lojban words is that the consonant clusters look hard to English speakers, and this was more an answer to this criticism than a claim about the aesthetics of Slavic language speakers. Still, it seems a reasonable presumption that most people feel more comfortable with a language that sounds a little like their own. Interestingly, our phonology has a result that several people with experience with a variety of languages have said that Lojban (as I speak it) sounds like a south Slavic language. It will be interesting at some point to have a southern Slavic speaker confirm this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The range of consonant clusters we permit in Lojban was augmented after a Slavic languages expert pointed out that our set was extremely tame and excessively constraining on the words and their recognition. Lojban root words can be recognized as roots by the presence of the consonant cluster - which is never found in structure words and al- ways found in predicate words. We thus constrained the set of clusters in medial position by disallowing voiced/unvoiced mixing of stops and fricatives, doubled consonants, and most mixed sibilants. Permitted initial clusters are a subset of these (48), which are phonetically symmetric (thus, because we allow the unvoiced &#039;st&#039;, we allow the voiced equivalent &#039;zd&#039;, even though it isn&#039;t found in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Languages require a certain amount of redundancy to be understandable. My own comparative examination seems to indicate that most languages have either consonant clusters or tones, and that having one seems to minimize the evolutionary pressure towards the other. Polynesian and Japanese are the only exceptions to this I know of (and Japanese actually has some clusters, though they aren&#039;t reflected in the writing system). Can anybody confirm or deny my observation? What other techniques are found in languages that improve redundancy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 7. and 9.) So we end up with a language that has some aesthetic appeal for everyone, but perhaps doesn&#039;t satisfy everyone; a pleasant cultural tension/ balance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. ivan: (responding to 12.) And again, don&#039;t stress too much on the aesthetic side. It is too subjective. It is up to the person. Let&#039;s talk efficiency and ease.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. lojbab: (responding to 13.) Aesthetics is enormously important, even though subjective. It determines people&#039;s first reactions to the language. Efficiency can be quantified, and is more objective, as you say. But languages need some minimum redundancy and I suspect that we don&#039;t know what that minimum is. So pushing too hard in this direction might give a language that is too efficient to be practical (Anyone for Speedtalk - Heinlein&#039;s language in &#039;Gulf&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Thus spaghetti becomes &#039;djarspageti&#039;, with the &#039;dja&#039; from &#039;cidja&#039;, the word for &#039;food&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16. ivan: (responding to 15.) &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; is the Chinese _shi4_, I presume. What is &amp;quot;dja&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
17. lojbab: (responding to 16.) Ivan Derzhanski asked about the Lojban etymologies, and gave &#039;cidja&#039; as an example word. It is halfway down this list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are rough etymologies of a sampling of Lojban words. These are being assembled for eventual publication as a set, but we have to manually reconstruct what the computer-run algorithm did for each word. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is key to remember that we often ran several words from a single language against words from other languages in order to select the word with the highest score. In some cases, this means that the word from a language that &#039;won&#039; is not the best word for the concept in the language. Instead, subject to a little educated guesswork, we have words that offer a reasonable cognate-like memory hook between the Lojban word and a related source-language word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second note, is that words are Lojbanized phonetically. This can result in some strange-looking spellings; e.g. English and Russian vowels and final consonants often change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll schematically outline the information for the first word:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714c      katna	82.00	     cut                       &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
[Algo     [Lojban	[score	     [English                  &lt;br /&gt;
run	#]    word]	(0-100)]     keyword]                  &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This line is from a summary file of algorithm outputs, prepared manually at the time we made the words.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
kan kat kat kort kas kata&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbanized phonetic forms of the source language words - the order of words is Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, Arabic. We have not yet manually gone back to our paper originals to get the Romanized natural language spellings. Note: some declensional word endings were systematically removed to get a true root. This was to avoid getting a false recognition score solely from the declension. The stop component of affricates were removed for the same reason. There were a few other systematic a priori modifications to the source language words that I can respond to if anyone has questions about a word. Note that the source word may not be the best word for the concept in the language. We aren&#039;t expert in all these languages, and in any case wanted to have a memory hook for the word more than a cognate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(cut )&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[English keyword from the algorithm output file]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
katna 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojban word and score from the output file - there were occasional typos in making the manual summary, which we are only now finding (about 3-4% error rate - we were working quickly and didn&#039;t check ourselves well). The 6 digits are scores for the 6 source words, in order. The numbers represent phoneme matches, in order - a score of 1 was considered useless for recognition, and a score of 2 required the phonemes to be adjacent or separated by exactly one phoneme in BOTH source and Lojban. Thus &#039;kort&#039; from Spanish gets a 0 score even though it has some cognate value.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  katna	    82.00     cut                              &lt;br /&gt;
      kan kat kat kort kas kata                            &lt;br /&gt;
      (cut	)                                              &lt;br /&gt;
      katna	 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4                             &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  klaku	60.90	  weep (cry)			    &lt;br /&gt;
      ku krai vilap ior	plak baka			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (weep  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      klaku  60.90 2 2 2 0 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  krixa	61.30	  cry out			    &lt;br /&gt;
      xan krai cila grit kric sarax			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (cry out	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      krixa  61.30 2 3 2 2 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  kulnu	45.20	  culture			    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (culture	)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      kulnu  45.20 2 2 0 4 4 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  mitre	89.40	  meter				    &lt;br /&gt;
      mi mitr mitar metr mietr mitr			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meter  )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mitre  89.40 2 4 4 3 4 4				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sanmi	62.90	  meal				    &lt;br /&gt;
      san mil bojan sen	eda taam			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meal  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      sanmi  62.90 3 2 2 2 0 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sefta	60.00	  surface/face                      &lt;br /&gt;
      2/2o lower score no conflict [the	highest	score word  &lt;br /&gt;
     was used]						    &lt;br /&gt;
      se srfis satax kostad pavierxnast	satxa		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (surface	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      sefta  60.00 2 2 3 3 0 3                              &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  bersa	57.00	  son				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin ibn				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin najl				    &lt;br /&gt;
      (son  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      bersa  57.00 2 2 3 0 0 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714d  pruxi	53.00	  spirit			    &lt;br /&gt;
      guei spirit pret espiritu	dux rux			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (spirit  )					    &lt;br /&gt;
      pruxi  53.00 2 3 2 3 2 3				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  suksa	61.20	  sudden                            &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	faja                        &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	bagta                       &lt;br /&gt;
      (sudden  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714e  fetsi	    62.14     female/fem-                      &lt;br /&gt;
      si fem stri feminin jiensk uncau                     &lt;br /&gt;
      (female  )                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      fetsi	 62.14 2 2 2 3 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714e  spoja	    57.51     explode                          &lt;br /&gt;
      ja iksplod vispot eksplo vzriv fajar                 &lt;br /&gt;
      (explode  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      spoja	 57.51 2 3 3 3 0 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  catlu	    45.05     look                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek mir smatr tatala                        &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek ve smatr	tatala                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (look	at  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      catlu	 45.05 3 2 0 0 2 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  grake	    80.70     gram                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ke gram gram gram gram giram                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (gram	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      grake	 80.70 2 3 3 3 3 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  krefu	    57.53     recur                            &lt;br /&gt;
      3/3o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      [the 3rd best	word was taken to give the word	a short&lt;br /&gt;
     affix]                                                &lt;br /&gt;
      fu rikr pir rekur pere takrar                        &lt;br /&gt;
      (recur  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
      krefu	 57.53 2 2 0 3 2 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  lijda	    42.72     religion (relig-)                &lt;br /&gt;
      jiau rilij darm relixio religi din                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (religious  )                                        &lt;br /&gt;
      lijda	 42.72 2 3 2 2 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  mlana	    54.29     side/lateral                     &lt;br /&gt;
      4/4o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl satax lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl bagal lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (side	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mlana	 54.29 3 2 2 2 3 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  rinju	    49.08     restrain                         &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren abuzdiv kabax           &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren sdierjiv	kabax          &lt;br /&gt;
      (restrain  )                                         &lt;br /&gt;
      rinju	 49.08 2 3 3 2 0 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Interlinguistics and Lojban Vocabulary Building&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jsp@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Prothero)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;urban@rand.org (Mike Urban)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Prothero:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been poking through the Linguistics section of the campus library, and found a book which might interest other Loglanists: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trends in Linguistics - Studies and Monographs 42: Interlinguistics Aspects of the Science of Planned Languages, Klaus Schubert (Ed.), Mouton de Gruyter 1989, ISBN 3-11-011910-2, 350 pg., $66.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;This book ... is an invitation to all those interested in languages and linguistics to make themselves acquainted with some recent streams of scientific discussion in the field of planned languages.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The book is a collection of fifteen recent papers in interlinguistics. For folks who (like me) haven&#039;t been following the field, the bibliographies provide an up-to- date set of pointers into the literature, plus some overviews of it. I think the table of contents gives an adequate idea of the scope and focus of the book: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part I: Introductions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Andre Martinet: The proof of the pudding&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: Interlinguistics - its aims, its achievements, and its place in language science.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part II: Planned Languages in Linguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aleksandr D Dulicenko: Ethnic language and planned language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Detlev Blanke: Planned languages - a survey of some of the main problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sergej N Kuznecov: Interlinguistics: a branch of applied linguistics?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part III: Languages Design and Language Change&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dan Maxwell: Principles for constructing Planned Languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Francois Lo Jacomo: Optimization in language planning&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: A few notes on the evolution of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part IV: Sociolinguistics and Psycholinguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jonathan Pool - Bernard Grofman: Linguistic artificiality and cognitive competence&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: Who are the speakers of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tazio Carlevaro: Planned auxiliary language and communicative competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part V: The Language of Literature&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manuel Halvelik: Planning nonstandard language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pierre Janton: If Shakespeare had written in Esperanto Part &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
VI: Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probal Dasgupta: Degree words in Esperanto and categories in Universal Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: An unplanned development in planned languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part VII: Terminology and Computational Lexicography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wera Blanke: Terminological standardization - its roots and fruits in planned languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rudiger Eichholz: Terminics in the interethnic language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Victor Sadler: Knowledge-driven terminography for machine translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not a linguist, and won&#039;t attempt to review the book from a linguistics point of view, but I will highlight some points of particular interest to Loglanists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, there is some mention of Loglan (and the thousand- odd other artificial language projects to date), but the bulk of the focus is on Esperanto, for the simple reason that 99.9% of fluent planned-language users speak Esperanto, and a similar percentage of the written-text corpus from the planned language community is in Esperanto. (Any Loglanists who cannot tolerate mention of That Language are invited to stop reading at this point. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, I (and perhaps most Loglanists) was unaware of the Distributed Language Translation project, which seems to be of considerable potential interest to Loglanists. The following is quoted for comment:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Distributed Language Translation is the name of a long- term research and development project carried out by the BSO software house in Utrecht with funding from the Netherlands Ministry of Economic Affairs. For the present seven year period (1985-1991) it has a budget of 17 million guilders... Although much larger in size than earlier attempts, DLT started off as just another project of the second stage, using Esperanto as its intermediate language. Esperanto had been judged suitable for this purpose because of its highly regular syntax and morphology and because its agglutinative nature promised an especially efficient possibility of morpheme-based coding of messages for network transmission. During the course of the first years of the large-scale practical development, however, the role of Esperanto in the DLT system increased substantially. the intermediate language took over more and more processes originally designed to be carried out either in the source or in the target languages of the multilingual system. When I consider the DLT system to be one step more highly developed than the earlier implementations involving Esperanto, it is because the increase in the role of Esperanto was due to intrinsic qualities of Esperanto as a planned language. In other words, Esperanto is in DLT no longer treated as any other language (which incidentally has a somewhat more computer-friendly grammar than other languages), but it is now used in DLT for a large part of the overall translation process because of its special features as a planned language. Some facets of this complex application are discussed by Sadler [in this volume].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The functions fulfilled in DLT by means of Esperanto are numerous. Generally speaking one can say that since the insight about the usefulness of a planned language&#039;s particular features for natural-language processing, the whole DLT system design has tended to move into the Esper- anto part of the system all functions that are not specific for particular source or target languages. These are all semantic and pragmatic processes of meaning disambiguation, word choice, detection of semantic deixis and reference relations, etc. So-called knowledge of the world has been stored in a lexical knowledge bank and is consulted by a word expert system. All these applications of Artificial Intelligence are in DLT carried out entirely in Esperanto. Let it be said explicitly: Esperanto does not serve as a programming language (DLT is implemented in Prolog and C), but as a human language which renders the full content of the source text being translated with all its nuances, disambiguates it and conveys it to the second translation step to a target language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, the existence of significant amounts of fully disambiguated, machine-processable Esperanto text in such a translation system opens up the possibility of wholesale mechanical translation into Loglan. This would be, obvi- ously, particularly easy if the (currently poorly-defined) semantics of the Loglan affix system were brought into line with the existing semantics of the Esperanto affix system. In this case, bi-directional mechanical translation between the two languages might become quite easy, possible producing sort of an &amp;quot;instant literature&amp;quot; for the Loglanist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Building a simple correspondence between Esperanto and Loglan affixes is not as far-fetched an idea as it might first seem. Esperanto, like Loglan, uses a single root- stock of affixes which may be arbitrarily concatenated to form compound words. Where Loglan assigns two forms to (most) concepts, a pred and an affix, Esperanto uniformly assigns only a single affix (cutting the learning load in half!), but this poses no particular intertranslation problem. Loglan affixes are designed to be uniquely resolvable, and Esperanto affixes are not, but this problem has evidently already been solved, hence again poses no particular problem to bi-directional translation. Again, Loglan has a (putatively) unambiguous grammar which Esperanto lacks, but this problem has apparently already been satisfactorily resolved at the Esperanto end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Elsewhere on the affix front, Loglan has a set of affixes, but has barely begun the enormous task of building the compound-word vocabulary. Loglan could learn from Esperanto on (at least) two levels. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most obviously, bringing the Loglan affix system into semantic correspondence with the Esperanto affix system would open the door to wholesale borrowing of Esperanto compound metaphors, capitalizing on the planned language community&#039;s multi-mega-man-year investment. Unless there are sound engineering concerns to the contrary (I see none), there seems no reason to idly re-invent a wheel of this magnitude. This ain&#039;t a DOD project, folks :-) There will be language bigots on both sides opposed in principle to any cooperation, of course...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less obviously, Loglan may be able to benefit from the design knowledge gained from a century&#039;s experience with, and linguistic study of, the Esperanto affix system. Klaus Schubert&#039;s paper &amp;quot;An unplanned development in planned languages: A study of word grammar&amp;quot; is suggestive. Zamenhof, like Jim Brown, paid no particular attention to word formation in his original design, simply providing a uniform stock of primitives which could be concatenated at will to create new words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this lack of conscious planning, linguistic study of word formation in Esperanto (started by Rene de Saussure - not to be confused with Ferdinand Saussure - and continued by Sergej Kuznecov and others), this simple syntactic combination rule has supported the development of a systematic set of semantic combination rules. These (unwritten and unconscious but nevertheless universal) semantic combination rules allow the Esperantist, when faced with an unfamiliar compound word, to not only decompose it into (usually) familiar primitives, but also to somewhat systematically deduce the meaning of the word. Recent decades have apparently seen increasingly free use of these facilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t attempt a summary of these semantic rules here, but will try to give the flavor. Even though the primitive stock syntactically forms a single neutral pool, it appears that prims [gismu] are semantically treated in word combination by Esperantists as being divided into noun, verb and modifier (combined adverb/adjective) classes, which combine with distinctively different rules. This distinction provides one dimension for sorting prims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second, orthogonal dimension sorts prims into the categories independent morpheme, declension morpheme, ending (these first three correspond roughly to Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;little words&amp;quot;), affixoid, affix and root (these final three correspond to the Loglan affix set). These affix types combine according to a word-compounding grammar which allows the listener to distinguish (among other things) those compounds whose meaning is directly deducible from the meaning of the component prims, from those compounds whose meaning is metaphorical and must be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Loglan were to borrow the Esperanto compound vocabulary wholesale, it would of course, willy nilly, inherit these semantic regularities as well. Otherwise, it might be well to study these regularities and consciously incorporate them in the Loglan vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Of the authors, Detlev Blanke is on our mailing list, but probably too recently to have based anything he wrote on our material.&lt;br /&gt;
# Jeff&#039;s quoted description of the Netherlands translation project is useful; we were certainly aware of it.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Netherlands project is based on Esperanto - but with a caveat. It uses a formalized &#039;written&#039; Esperanto form that may be slightly different from spoken forms, but most importantly has disambiguating information encoded in the way the language is written. For example grouping of modifiers (our &#039;pretty little girls school&#039; problem) is solved by using extra SPACES to disambiguate which terms modify which.&lt;br /&gt;
# Esperanto&#039;s affix system is similarly ambiguous, though not as bad as 1975 Loglan was. I&#039;ve been given a few examples. Some handy ones are &#039;romano&#039; which is either a &#039;novel&#039; (root + no affix) or &#039;Roman&#039; (root &#039;Romo&#039; = Rome plus affix -an-) and &#039;banano&#039; which is either &#039;banana&#039; or &#039;bather&#039; (from &#039;bano&#039; = bath + -an- again). I&#039;ve been told there are many others. This type of ambiguity presents no problem to a machine translator, which can store hyphens to separate affixes etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# I have not investigated Esperanto&#039;s affix system thoroughly, but it is not compatible with Lojban&#039;s. (We did ensure at one point that we had gismu, and therefore rafsi corresponding to each of the Esperanto affixes, though.) Simply put, Lojban has rafsi for EACH of its gismu. Esperanto has only a couple of dozen, and a MUCH larger root set. Some Esperanto affixes have several Lojban equivalents. For example, we now have &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; for scalar negation of various sorts to correspond to Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;. Note that Jeff did not mention the large root set in his comments. Most of these roots are combined by concatenation, like German. But apparently as often as not a new root is coined rather than concatenate, since Esperanto has no stigma attached to borrowing. But it is not true that Lojban has two forms while Esperanto only has one.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Esperanto affix/semantic system is probably even more poorly defined than Lojban&#039;s. As Jeff said, it is largely intuitive; this means independent of a rule system. However, there are rules; this was mentioned a few times in the recent JL debates between Don Harlow, Athelstan and myself. A guy named Kalocsay apparently wrote up the rules early in this century; they are some 40-50 pages long and most Esperantists never read them much less learn them. They also are apparently rather freely violated in actual usage; they were descriptive of the known language, not prescriptive. By the way, I suspect that Lojban&#039;s compounding semantics is actually better-defined than it seems. I just don&#039;t know enough about semantic theory to attempt to write it up. Jim Carter wrote a paper several years ago, which we can probably offer for distribution (or he can), on the semantics of compound place structures. We haven&#039;t adopted what he has said whole-hog, but it certainly has been influential.&lt;br /&gt;
# We will probably make extensive use of Esperanto dictionaries when we start our buildup of the Lojban lujvo vocabulary. We thus will not reinvent the wheel in totality. BUT, we cannot do this freely for a large number of reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
## our root set is different than theirs. Some of their compounds will thus not work. The same is true of old Loglan words. We&#039;ve been held up on translating Jim Carter&#039;s Akira story (the one he uses in all his guaspi examples) from old Loglan to Lojban by this need to retranslate all the compounds (which he used extensively and in ways inconsistent with our current, better defined semantics).&lt;br /&gt;
## as mentioned above, our affixes are not in 1-to-1 correspondence.&lt;br /&gt;
## their compounds undoubtedly have a strong European bias. I doubt if it is as bad as Jim Brown&#039;s (who built the compound for &#039;to man a ship&#039; from the metaphor &#039;man- do&#039;; i.e. &#039;to do as a man to&#039;. He also did &#039;kill&#039; as &#039;dead-make&#039; where &#039;make&#039; is the concept &#039;to make ... from materials ...&#039; Sounds more like Frankenstein to me, folks.) But I suspect Esperanto has a few zinger&#039;s in there. Indeed, I understand the Ido people criticized Esperanto most significantly for its illogical word building, though I don&#039;t have details. I also intend to draw heavily from Chinese, which has a more Lojbanic tanru &#039;metaphor&#039; system since it doesn&#039;t distinguish between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Esperanto tries to get around this by allowing relatively free conversion between these categories, but the root concepts are taken from European languages that more rigidly categorize words, and their compounds probably reflect European semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
## Most importantly, Esperanto words are not gismu. They do not have place structures. Lojban words do, and the affix semantics and compound semantics must be consistent with those place structures. We&#039;ve covered this in previous discussions in the guise of warning against &#039;figurative&#039; metaphors that are inconsistent with the place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
## Nope. Most importantly is another reason. Lojban is its own language. It should not be an encoded Esperanto any more then it should be an encoded English. I suspect that just like English words, Esperanto words sometimes have diverse multiple context-dependent meanings (though again perhaps less severely than English). We want to minimize this occurrence in Lojban if not prevent it (we may not succeed, but we can try - the rule that every word created must have a place structure is a good start.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bottom line is that each Esperanto word must be checked for validity, just like any other lujvo proposal, but must also be translated into its closest equivalent Lojban tanru as well, and have a place structure written, etc. The bulk of dictionary writing is this other work. I can and have made new tanru/lujvo (without working out the place structures) at the rate of several per MINUTE for related concepts. Coranth D&#039;Gryphon posted a couple hundred proposals last December (that no one commented on), which he made based on English definitions. We have perhaps 200 PAGES of word proposals to go through. Nearly all of these have no place structures defined or are defined haphazardly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has a multi-man-year investment behind it, though not &#039;mega&#039;. No, Jeff, we aren&#039;t a DOD project, but in terms of people working on it and time spent, we&#039;ve far exceeded many such projects. And word-building, whether for better or worse, has received the greatest portion of that effort, since that is all most people have felt competent to work on. (Incidentally, the Netherlands project IS a government sponsored project, if not defense- related. If we had several million dollars, I think we&#039;d be well along the way to a translator ourselves. Sheldon Linker has claimed that he could do a Lojban conversing program with heuristic &#039;understanding&#039; a la HAL 9000 in 5 man-years. This is, in my mind, of comparable difficulty to a heuristic translation program. Any comments out there from those who know more than I do on this subject?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mike Urban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While I am a dyed-in-the-wool Esperantist, I agree that attempting to modify or extend Lojban in imitation of various features of Esperanto would be a mistake (I also lose patience with reformers who want to Lojbanify aspects of Esperanto).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto&#039;s `affix system is ambiguous&#039; to the extent that the language itself is indeed lexically ambiguous. Not only `affixes&#039; but roots themselves are combinable, and so it is possible to come up with endless puns like the `banano&#039; ones you mentioned (`literaturo&#039; might be a tower of letters, i.e., a `litera turo&#039;). Without the careful, but somewhat restrictive, phonological rules that Loglan or Lojban provides, this kind of collision is inevitable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The borrowing of words in Esperanto (`neologisms&#039;) instead of using a compound form is a controversial topic. Claude Piron, in his recent book, La Bona Lingvo, argues (quite convincingly, I think) that the tendency of some Es- perantists to use neologisms, usually from French, English, or Greek, is partly based on pedanticism, partly based on Eurocentrism (``you mean, everyone doesn&#039;t know what `monotona&#039; means?&#039;&#039;), partly a Francophone desire to have a separate word for everything, and largely a failure to really Think IN Esperanto, rather than translating. In any case, the distinction in Esperanto between affixes and root words has always been a thin one (Zamenhof mentioned that you can do anything with an affix that you can do with a root), and has been getting even thinner in recent years. Combining by concatenation is every bit as intrinsic to the language as the use of suffixes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You asked about Ido and Esperanto. While I have not looked at Ido in a number of years, I recall that the main gripe of the Idists was not that Esperanto was too European - indeed, one of their reforms was to discard Esperanto&#039;s rather a priori `correlative&#039; system of relative pronouns (which works rather as if we used `whus&#039; instead of `how&#039; for parallelism with `what/that, where/ there&#039;) in favor of a more latinate - but unsystematic - assortment of words. If anything, Idists tended towards a more Eurocentric (or Francocentric) view than Esperantists did. Ido&#039;s affix system, however, attempted to be more like Loglan/Lojban. They took the view that predicates did not have intrinsic parts of speech; thus any conversion of meaning through the use of affixes should be `reversible&#039;. Thus, if `marteli&#039; is `to hammer&#039;, then `martelo&#039; must mean an act of hammering, not (as in Esperanto) `a hammer&#039;; or, if `martelo&#039; means `a hammer&#039;, then `marteli&#039; must mean `to be a hammer&#039;. One result of this is a somewhat larger assortment of affixes than Esperanto possesses, (for example, a suffix that would transform a noun root `martelo&#039; to a root meaning `to hammer&#039;) with rather subtle shades of distinction in some cases. The result is a language that is only slightly more logical than Esperanto, but proportionally harder to learn, and no less Eurocentric.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Linguistic tinkerers like the Idists underestimated the organic quality of Esperanto, or of any living language. Indeed, one of the valuable aspect of Lojban or Loglan, if either ever develops a substantial population of fluent speakers, will be to observe the extent to which the common usages of the language diverge from the prescriptive definitions. Such effects will, I think, be easier to isolate and analyze in a language that was created `from whole cloth&#039; than in an a posteriori language like Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proposed Lojban Machine Grammar Baseline Changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document explains the technical corrections to the tentative baseline grammar of 20 July as proposed by John Cowan. Each change is explained in a three-part format: CURRENT LANGUAGE; PROPOSED CHANGE; RATIONALE. Those wishing an exact list of changes to the grammar baseline rules should contact us. The changes are sufficiently minor that we do not plan to reissue the machine grammar before the final baseline, although we are considering an addendum with the exact list of changes after they are formally approved, which will go to those at level 2 and above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Executive Summary:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# JOIK connection between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Multiple EK_KEs between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Reorder BIhI GAhO GAhO to GAhO BIhI GAhO&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove GAhOs in parentheses&lt;br /&gt;
# NA SE without NAI in afterthought connectives&lt;br /&gt;
# Negation/conversion of BIhI&lt;br /&gt;
# KI by itself and after BAI&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# GIhEK_KE priority change&lt;br /&gt;
# No FAhO before TUhU&lt;br /&gt;
# Attach free modifierss to tense_modal, not PU_mod&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow ZI PU and VI FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
# Change utterance ordinals to free modifiers&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow only one NAhE before tense&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow forethought JOIKs&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow BU to suffix any word to produce a BY&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove MEX relations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 1&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Currently, logical connection of operands in the MEX grammar is allowed using EKs. However, JOIKs are not usable in MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow JOIKs as well as EKs on the same grammatical level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Operands are the formal analogues of sumti, and this change makes operand connection formally identical to sumti connection, so that it can be learned by analogy without a special exception.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Ranges (&amp;quot;from 3 to 10&amp;quot;) can be easily expressed using selma&#039;o BIhI and GAhO, which are part of the JOIK system. Currently, these can only be expressed by a messy variation on left and right parentheses, which doesn&#039;t work well because no separator is defined between the upper and the lower bound. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 2 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Only one EK_KE construction is allowed after a MEX operand. You cannot say &amp;quot;pa .a ke ri .e ci ke&#039;e .a ke vo .e mu&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;1 or (2 and 3) or (3 and 4)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow more than one consecutive EK_KE construct. RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) same as 1) for Change 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) This change amounts to changing an &amp;quot;operand_C&amp;quot; to an &amp;quot;operand_B&amp;quot;. The baselined version was created by incorrectly copying existing text from the pre-baseline grammar, so this change is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: In expressing intervals with explicit end-markers, the order is BIhI GAhO GAhO, where the first GAhO is the left endpoint and the second one is the right endpoint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Put the first GAhO before the BIhI &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Make this form more consistent with the logical connectives like &amp;quot;na.anai&amp;quot;, where the marker for the left connectand precedes the connector.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 4&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: MEX ranges are handled with GAhO operators attached to mathematical parentheses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this capability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See Change 1. This capability was never correctly specified, because only one expression can appear between parentheses, whereas ranges require two expressions inherently.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 5&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: It is possible to specify either NA or SE before selma&#039;o A, JA, GIhA, or ZIhA, but they cannot both be specified unless -NAI follows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The intent of a previous change just before the baseline was to allow both NA and SE (in that order) in all cases, not just those where -NAI followed. This ability was accidentally omitted, so this is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 6&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: selma&#039;o JOI can be converted with SE and negated with NAI like the logical connectives, but the closely related selma&#039;o BIhI cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow conversion and negation of BIhI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Converted ranges allow &amp;quot;se bi&#039;o&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;to...from...&amp;quot; and negated ranges allow &amp;quot;bi&#039;inai&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;not between&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 7&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: KI can be used either on an origin specifier or on a time and/or space tense to reset the scope or position of the origin. KI by itself is ungrammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow KI by itself. This returns the origin to the physical here and now. Also allow KI after BAI to set a default aspect value; &amp;quot;BAI KI sumti&amp;quot; sets the BAI aspect to the sumti, and &amp;quot;BAI KI KU&amp;quot; resets the aspect to its default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This capability existed in the pre-baseline grammar, and was omitted in error during the tense redesign.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 8 *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 9&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: GIhEK_KE constructs have lower priority than basic GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Place GIhEK_KE constructs at the highest priority among GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This is the scheme used by sumti and operand connection, where EK has the lowest priority (and is left-binding), EK_BO has medium priority (and is right- binding), and EK_KE has highest priority (and is again left-binding). During the split between Institute Loglan and Lojban, sumti were changed to make EK_KE highest priority (and operands followed when MEX was redesigned) but bridi-tails were not changed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 10&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: FAhO can appear in two possible places, at the end of text (including TO-TOI parenthesized text), and just before the closing TUhU of a TUhE-TUhU very long scope construct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Disallow FAhO before TUhU. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: FAhO was intended to signal the end of text unambiguously, but a parser problem forced it to be allowed in an additional context. That problem no longer exists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 11&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: The grouping of PU_mods means that a free modifier at the end of a PU_mod applies to the whole PU_mod rather than just to the tense_modal at the end, whereas free modifiers embedded within the PU_mod refer only to the tense_modals they follow. So &amp;quot;puxipa je puxire&amp;quot;, which should mean &amp;quot;past-time t1 or past-time-t2&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(past-time t1 or some-past-time)-sub-2&amp;quot;. As a result, there would be no way to subscript a conjoint tense, but it is not clear what such subscripts would mean anyhow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Move the free modifier to tense_modal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See CURRENT LANGUAGE section. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 12&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: An initial FAhA cannot be followed by space offsets, but only by a space interval (or by nothing at all). Analogously for a ZI in the time system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow FAhA followed by space-time-offsets and ZI followed by time offsets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This allows the currently ungrammatical &amp;quot;vizu&#039;a&amp;quot; in the sense of &amp;quot;to the left of a nearby point&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;zu&#039;avi&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;a point not far to the left of here&amp;quot;. This distinction is subtle, but real. The change to the time system follows by symmetry, although initial ZI is probably not of much use, since it means &amp;quot;a short/medium/long time distance from now&amp;quot; without specifying either past or future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 13&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Utterance ordinals using MAI are currently considered indicators, and can appear after any word and get absorbed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Shift MAI constructs to the more restrictive free-modifier grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The absorber routines in the parsing program which need to remove non-initial utterance ordinals before YACC sees them have to read an arbitrary number of PA or BY tokens, determine whether the next token is a MAI, and if so absorb, but if not push back all the PA/BY stuff. This requires unbounded pushback capability in the absorber, which is to be avoided.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was proposed earlier but never consummated. A side effect of this change is that lexer_A would flag utterance ordinals only, and the regular indicators (UI, CAI, Y) no longer need lexer flagging. Another side effect is that FUhO, DAhO, and POhA can be treated as indicators (and PEhA as a forethought indicator like BAhE) rather than with special magic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 14&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: A tense can be prefixed with arbitrary numbers of NAhE tokens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow only one NAhE token at most.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The compounder needs to read past a potentially infinite number of NAhEs to decide whether what follows is a selbri (which is not compounded) or a tense. If this change is made, the compounder will always be able to decide within 2 tokens whether it has a compound or not. If multiple NAhEs are really needed, the tense can be expanded to use the predicate grammar instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 15: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 16: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 17&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Logical operators can be represented in either forethought or afterthought (except for tenses and abstractors), as can aspectual (BAI) operators, but the non-logical operators of JOI and BIhI have no forethought versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;[SE] JOI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;[SE] BIhI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; as new kinds of forethought connectives, analogous to the existing &amp;quot;stag GI [NAI]&amp;quot; (see the E- BNF grammar). Forethought would still be disallowed in tanru (no GUhEK equivalent of this) and where the GAhO endpoint markers are required. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Completeness, plus the fact that natural languages such as English usually represent JOIKs with forethought constructs (&amp;quot;the union of...and...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;from...to...&amp;quot;, etc.) Institute Loglan had only one JOIK, &amp;quot;ze&amp;quot; (the equivalent of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;), so a forethought construction was not felt necessary. The far more elaborate JOIKs of Lojban can easily be extended to forethought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 18&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, selma&#039;o BU, has a very restricted use. It can only appear after bare vowels (selma&#039;o A, I, and Y) to create the lerfu for those vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot; after any (lexable) word whatever, to create something equivalent to selma&#039;o BY. In addition, change the standard lerfu for &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;. Remove the ZAI...FOI construct for change of character set, as well as the TEI construct. LAU is kept and extended to hold all lerfu prefixes, including &amp;quot;zai&amp;quot; to specify character set and &amp;quot;tau&amp;quot; to force a next-lerfu shift.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Composite symbols become represented by TEI letteral ... FOI, which has the grammar of a single letteral. RATIONALE: This allows the creation of a bunch of new lerfu. The Latin and Greek alphabets can be more readily accommodated; for example, &amp;quot;q&amp;quot; could have &amp;quot;kybu&amp;quot; as its lerfu. lerfu for the digits become possible; for example &amp;quot;pabu&amp;quot; would be the digit 1, as opposed to the number 1. &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; causes problems with the parser, as the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is absorbed into the preceding token (as a hesitation noise) and is not available to be compounded with &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot; uses the lerfu &amp;quot;y&#039;y&amp;quot; (alone representing &amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot;) instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ZAI...FOI construct is meant to specify new character sets, but requires spelling out the name of the character set in lerfu, for example &amp;quot;zai dy ebu vy abu ny abu gy abu ry ibu foi&amp;quot; to enable Devanagari mode. This is ugly. Using the new flexibility of &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, we can say &amp;quot;zai .devanagar. bu&amp;quot; instead. (The pauses are needed in names for morphological reasons.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 19&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: There is a special category of predicates called &amp;quot;MEX relations&amp;quot; which have special grammar; they represent mathematical relations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Assimilate MEX relations to ordinary predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: MEX relations as defined cannot be logically connected and overlap ordinary predicates. The only MEX relation cmavo defensible on Zipfean grounds is &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;, which is moved to selma&#039;o GOhA.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Letter from Vincent Burch&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(italicized comments by Bob)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... First, a couple of lexical questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gurni - does this mean grain (texture) or grain (cereal)? [cereal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fepni - does the last place, &amp;quot;from...&amp;quot; indicate the major unit this is a division of, or the issuing authority? [the latter]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few suggestions about place structures:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[These are open to comments from the community, and will be considered along with others as part of the ongoing place structure review.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cevni - there should be another place to indicate purview (&amp;quot;of...&amp;quot;). This eliminates an inadvertent bias toward monotheism, and allows anthropologists, or anyone else, to easily discuss deities such as Thor, the Norse god of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cange, farm and purdi, garden - need another place for crop(s) grown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
zekri - should insert &amp;quot;against...&amp;quot; to indicate the victim. The concept that all crimes are crimes against the state is a relatively recent development of debatable merit. (I&#039;m enough of an anarchist to think that &amp;quot;crime against the state&amp;quot; comes close to being an oxymoron.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vindu - should add a place for source (&amp;quot;from...&amp;quot;) so that, for example, le vindu fe le mledi, fungicide, can be distinguished from le vindu fi le mledi, mycotoxin. As a linguistic faulpelz, I&#039;d like to know if there&#039;s a clear way to condense those phrases, and others like them, into lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I assume, &amp;quot;...and to distinguish them&amp;quot;. After all mledi vindu covers them both, but ambiguously. How about: mledi krasi vindu to explicitly give the latter. &amp;quot;from source/origin&amp;quot; has a lexeme BAI and is probably not needed in the place structure, making the simpler tanru more clear to cover &#039;fungicide&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Surprise&amp;quot; is a good keyword for .ue, but when you write the dictionary, you should be sure to include the translation of .ue as &amp;quot;even...&amp;quot;. My statement of mock mock-humility, &amp;quot;sogar ich kann Fehler machen,&amp;quot; becomes mi .ue pu&#039;i srera.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[You are NOT expressing surprise - as you said it is mock humility. Don&#039;t &#039;lie&#039; with attitudinals; if you do, they don&#039;t serve their proper purpose. Another culture is perfectly justified at treating them literally. How about .o&#039;anai .ianai. It is longer but clear.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, I have a few suggestions for added cmavo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... enough to ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating sufficiency or potential, whether or not realized. [I need an example to tell your exact intent, but I think the existing set will manage it.]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... such that .../ ... so that .../ ... to the point of ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating actual result. This could be used to translate such tings as &amp;quot;bored to tears,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freeze to death,&amp;quot; or Carsonesque &amp;quot;it&#039;s so hot, that ...&amp;quot; [ja&#039;e]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... by ...&amp;quot;, a modal to identify the point of attachment; used to translate such phrases as &amp;quot;lead by the nose,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;hang by fingernails.&amp;quot; [sedi&#039;o] 4) &amp;quot;Heading/Title:&amp;quot;, a tag to identify the following text as a heading or title to the body of text following it. The end of the title would be marked by ni&#039;o or any of the mo&#039;o series. As would hopefully be obvious in use, a title before nomo&#039;o applies to entire body of text in question. Likewise before pamo&#039;o unless there is already a title that it becomes a subheading under. Subsequent headings apply only to designated sections of text. This cmavo would share some of the function of ni&#039;o, but apparently require its own lexeme. [This would require a grammar change, and isn&#039;t needed. Titles and Headings are metalinguistic, and should be identified as such. Our published examples have shown a couple of ways to do this.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for some gaps I see in the gismu list:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) When I read your report on Logfest &#039;90, I was amused by a collective blind spot. You make sure all the Terran continents are named, but you don&#039;t notice the absence of an adequate generic term. I&#039;m not satisfied with bady- daplu (.a&#039;unai!), and it couldn&#039;t be used in lujvo for concepts like transcontinental or intercontinental. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[.a&#039;unai is intended to be repulsion as contrary to interest (negative-interest), and seems strange in this context, but who knows. I would prefer using tumla to daplu, but otherwise see nothing wrong with your lujvo, which can in turn be used with ragve or jbini to get the other two concepts. Not all concepts need to be expressed in only two terms.]&lt;br /&gt;
2) Similarly, there is no gismu for forest. A ricygri is a copse, or stand, or clump. Besides, a forest is more than a group of trees; it&#039;s an entire ecological community (or megacommunity?). A separate gismu is needed to describe things as sylvan or woodland, or to make lujvo for forestry, woodcraft, or deforestation. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[Depending on your purpose, you could therefore use the most non-specific term: tricu foldi, or for your specific uses tricu ciste, or even tricu cecmu. There needn&#039;t be one Lojban term for all uses of an English term. Note that I do not make lujvo at this point. I would analyze the tanru much more careful before doing so.]&lt;br /&gt;
3) How does one say galaxy or galactic? A targri is a star cluster, which is a far cry from the huge, orbiting system that is a galaxy. Again, there are concepts like intra-, trans-, and inter-, and extragalactic. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[banli tarci ciste, perhaps. The compounds are used inexactly in English, by the way, so you have to be careful. But they are not everyday words and could easily be 4 or 5 part compounds using kensa where needed.]&lt;br /&gt;
4) Going the other way on the size scale, the difference between a village and a town (cmata&#039;u) is qualitative more than quantitative. I can&#039;t come up with a lot of lujvo, but it still bothers me. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[You are right - the difference is qualitative. Define the quality and you have your tanru. How about cange zarci tcadu?]&lt;br /&gt;
5) I see no way to discuss expectation in a veridical (as opposed to attitudinal) context, whether you mean astrology, meteorology, Wellsian futurology, scientific knowledge such as &amp;quot;I expect a dropped object to fall,&amp;quot; or world view such as &amp;quot;I expect children to respect their elders.&amp;quot; lujvo include disappoint = expectation-fail, optimist = good-expector, and pessimist = bad-expector (in contrast to xagnalkri, cynic = good-doubter). &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[krici (and senpi) are key gismu, with expectation referring to a belief about the future, about fate, or about fortune (balvi, dimna, cunso), depending on degree, intent and scope] &lt;br /&gt;
6) In scientific contexts, it would be very helpful to have a gismu for taxon. No, that is not the particle that transmits government extortion; it is a branch/level/division in a system of hierarchical organization. Taxonomy would be taxon-system-study), depending on context, but the primary use would be to de- signate taxonomic levels. Thus, Felideae and Lamiaceae are both examples of family-taxon. This avoids the confusion of trying to back-count the steps from jutsi to kingdom. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[jutsi conveys the series of species within a taxonomic hierarchy, with klesi used in a less rigorous context.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I could go on, but it&#039;s late. Ni&#039;o, . . .&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few of my lujvo that I&#039;m proudest of: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kaurjutsi (kampu jutsi). The place structure is &amp;quot;x1 is the common name used by x2 for the life-form called x3 (Linnaean binomial) by author x4.&amp;quot; I expect this lujvo would see more use in classrooms and laboratories than the original gismu. With ki&#039;a and the vo&#039;a series, it&#039;s easy to ask questions like &amp;quot;what&#039;s the common name for this?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;who calls it that?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;what&#039;s the scientific name for tapeworm?&amp;quot; An example of usage is: le ricpurdi srasu ku kaurjutsi le merko lai Dactylis glomeratus la lineius i le jipcirjma ku kaurjutsi le brito vo&#039;i (Orchardgrass is the American common name of D. glomeratus [L.]. The Brits call it cocksfoot.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;lu ricpurdi srasu li&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;la ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot;, since it&#039;s a name. Also, since you are dealing with names, rather than with the classification system, cmene should be the underlying gismu.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
relxadba (re xadba). &amp;quot;x1 is the mate of x2&amp;quot;. The mnemonic is &amp;quot;pair-half&amp;quot;. I originally coined it with gloves, socks, and shoes in mind, but it can easily be extended to animal species which are at least ostensively monogamous, like Homo sapiens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I think xadba mapti fits your definition more clearly. Look at the place structures of your underlying gismu, especially the final one that determines the tanru place structure.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu&#039;arselgre (cuxna se pagre). &amp;quot;x1 filters x2, stopping x3 and passing x4&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;selective barrier&amp;quot; can be a construct of paper and metal for filtering oil, gas, or air, or a piece of tinted glass for filtering light, or an assembly of components for filtering an electromagnetic signal, an algorithm for filtering input, or a mind-set for filtering perceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My first choice for keywords for tanru and lujvo is &#039;word cluster&#039; and &#039;affix cluster&#039;; my second choice is &#039;modified phrase&#039; and &#039;modified word&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[At least one person expressed a preference. Does anyone else care?]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like the overall setup of kinship terms, including the proposed generics. The &#039;988 panzi is basically included in jbena (if both are viewed tense-free). Inverting and expanding panzi would make it nicely symmetrical to jbena. I think &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; would also be welcome additions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A good translation of &amp;quot;just married&amp;quot; might be puzize&#039;u speni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I&#039;ll leave this one for a longer discussion of tenses. Maybe next issue.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The attitudinals and discursives are both in the UI lexeme. Does this mean that the attitudinals can be compounded with the discursives, or just with each other?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[No rules against it - the line between the two is rather arbitrary, but beware of possible misinterpretations.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be worth adding another cmavo to have a discursive for &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot;? If the answer to both of these last questions is yes, then .uecu&#039;i would combine with &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot; to translate the German discursive &amp;quot;ausgerechnet.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I don&#039;t know the German word, but irony is simply expressed with .ianai, in an otherwise positive claim.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I propose a new procedure with the names and acronyms of nations and other groups. Each word of the name should be examined to see if it is intrinsically a name, or if it&#039;s &amp;quot;just a word.&amp;quot; (Yes, I know that this can be an arbitrary distinction.) The names should be rendered phonetically into the best-fit cmene, and the words should be translated and then cmenified. Acronyms should either be the result of this process, or a simple rendition of the acronym from the source language. Thus, we might discuss la ge&#039;oSySySyRur or its Lojbanic equivalent, but not la .ubuSySyRyr. Hopefully, we can be more consistent (with whatever convention) than English speakers. USSR is a translated acronym, but KGB is the acronym of the Russian phrase that means &amp;quot;Committee for State Security.&amp;quot; If we&#039;re going to keep the original acronym, we might as well pronounce it kah-geh-beh, and leave it in Cyrillic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, that task requires more lujvo, to translate the various governmental concepts. Republic is easy, that&#039;s ka&#039;irtru (krati turni). I&#039;ve put some effort into coining lujvo for the rest, but it&#039;s a challenge to find metaphors which accurately convey the essence of the terms and remain culturally neutral. Confederacy, for example, is listed in most dictionaries as synonymous with federation. The difference is more or less clearly understood, however, by speakers - especially those who take a dim view of central authority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The terms are pretty much synonymous, unless you have a context where one was chosen and acquired secondary connotations, as in the U.S. Civil War.]&lt;br /&gt;
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---------------------&lt;br /&gt;
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[John Hodges takes a different perspective on people&#039;s reasons for learning Loglan/Lojban (his reasons apply regardless of the language name). His arguments are sound though pessimistic; I feel a little optimism is necessary for anyone to choose to learn an artificial language expecting practical benefit. Nora points out that John and I both have omitted the reason most people who have actually knuckled down and started learning the language - as a linguistic toy, a personal mind expander. This minor, totally impractical aspect may be the spark to get a &#039;movement&#039; started once we have a larger speaker-base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from John Hodges, on &#039;Why Lojban&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve pondered the subject of &amp;quot;Why Lojban?&amp;quot; We need to provide answers on an individual level, &amp;quot;Why should I study Lojban now?&amp;quot; Lojban may have many uses, but not all of them can be used as reasons for an individual to learn it. E.g. John Cowan&#039;s suggestion that L. may be valuable in linguistic research as a case study in the process of creolization. (Though, since creolization is an example of language evolution, it would seem to me for that purpose one would want an evolved language, not a constructed one.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: If you have fluent speakers, one would expect the processes of language evolution to be the same.] If there were a sizeable L-speaking community, a researcher might become interested. But I doubt if any individual would learn Lojban in order to improve the opportunities for lin- guistic research into creolization.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original &amp;quot;basic three reasons&amp;quot; still hold, in varying amounts for different people. The hope that those who think in Lojban will think &amp;quot;better&amp;quot; in some measurable way, more flexibly and/or more logically, is the one that will provide my own motivation. Potential usefulness as a com- puter language may motivate Computer Science researchers. Potential as a Global Auxiliary Language, a &amp;quot;common tongue&amp;quot; to reduce language barriers, may interest some more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written before on the possible aid that the computer-science people could give to the global-common- tongue ideal. Machine translation FROM Lojban TO natural languages would seem much more practical than any other kind of machine translation. It seems to me the project most likely to give tangible results within a small number of years. It is a project that can be worked on by a small number of widely scattered people. It is a project that may be &amp;quot;academically respectable&amp;quot;, suitable for theses and grants. It can be done by people who are not terribly fluent in anything but their native tongue. Intermediate results, software that gives bad but decipherable translations, can still be useful as research and as teaching tools. Altogether, in my opinion, enough to give a &amp;quot;reason for existence&amp;quot;, or a practical focus, to la lojbangirz. if efforts toward a mass movement fizzle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, I am not a computer-science person, and I have concluded that I am not likely to become one. My motivation is too weak for the work that would involve, given my starting point. Hence I cannot contribute personally to a machine-translation effort. I am starting out (once more on a new direction, toward graduate study of philosophy, in logic and ethics. My interest in Lojban will be in its potential as a language for thinking clearly in. (Pardon my English.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The class I taught never got to the &amp;quot;logical connectors&amp;quot;, and, or, xor, not, if, because, etc.... I recall you expressing a hope that a parser that could look ahead more than one token might allow a simplification of Lojban&#039;s system of logical connectors. Here also, then, the contributions of CS people are of high value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s value as a teaching vehicle for Logic, or (perhaps more likely) for linguistics, are potentially reasons for learning Lojban, for those who already wish to learn logic or linguistics. Someone would have to write a textbook on logic or linguistics that used Lojban as such a vehicle. Who knows, I might do that someday. I&#039;ll keep it in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have thought of the appeal of exclusivity and secrecy; given that so few people know this language, hobbyists might use it for private speech or writing. Diaries and intimate conversation... but is that enough motivation for learning a language, even one relatively easy to learn? Codes and ciphers would serve those purposes with less effort. I have thought of calling L. &amp;quot;Dragontongue&amp;quot;, recalling my Dad&#039;s comment that Lojban looked like nothing human. Fantasy fans might be attracted to it because of that. Again, I doubt this motivation is strong enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written on the global-common-tongue idea; given start-up-costs, increasing returns to scale, and inertia of established standards, I think our only hope is through machine translation. AFTER a dramatically successful test of Sapir-Whorf, the S-W angle may give us another selling point. Until MT or SW materializes, I think Esperanto owns the field, and even they have a very uphill fight. I think the most-likely-future is for the largest natural languages to grow and consolidate. In areas with a lot of small, fiercely loved ethnic or national languages, AND no clearly dominant existing common tongue, Esperanto will have its appeal to the sensible minority. Barring a sudden global attack of sanity, there will be no global common tongue. But given MT from L. to the largest N natural languages, L. could sweep the field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Following is a last, more scholarly examination of the question of Esperanto and its &#039;16 Rules&#039;, written by an expert in the History of Esperanto and International Languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== COUNTING THE GRAMMATICAL RULES OF ESPERANTO ===&lt;br /&gt;
Bernard Golden&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 16 rules - for propaganda purposes only ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For more than a century propagandists have tediously and repulsively disseminated the falsehood that the grammar of Esperanto consists of only sixteen rules. Plena Analiza Gramatiko (Complete Analytical Grammar)&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt; comments more realistically on the so-called &amp;quot;complete Grammar of Esperanto&amp;quot; which is the title of the sixteen rules in the Fundamenta Krestomatio (Fundamental Chrestomathy): &amp;quot;To want to limit the fundamentals of Esperanto to that scanty grammar and rely exclusively on it in order to discuss the main questions of our language would indeed be an unscientific and infantile attitude&amp;quot; (P. 18). Such a Lilliputian grammar is evidently insufficient for clarification of how the language is used, and it must be completed by rules formulated in other parts of the Fundamento (Foundation of Esperanto) or illustrated by Zamenhof&#039;s own usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== An unsuccessful attempt to estimate the number of rules ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To the best of my knowledge the first Esperantist who explored the question of the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is Douglas B Gregor&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;. He emphasizes that Zamenhof never said that Esperanto has only sixteen rules. It is a question not of sixteen rules but only sixteen descriptive items. &amp;quot;They are simple 16 heterogeneous traits of Esperanto which Zamenhof for some reason wanted to emphasize&amp;quot; (p. 8). Consequently, Gregor gave up trying to ascertain the actual number of rules in Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it not possible to compare Esperanto, even in an approximate manner, with ethnic languages in order to have an idea of the number of its rules? In the study referred to above, Gregor reports that he made an attempt to compare Esperanto with an ethnic language when he compiled a list of 6000 examples illustrating rules about language usage in Italian, but he did not succeed in drawing conclusions about Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Grammars and grammatical compendia ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An idea of the magnitude of Esperanto grammar can be acquired from the number of paragraphs or sections in grammatical reference books. For example, Plena Analiza Gramatiko has 436 numbered paragraphs describing the language in detail, but that is a minimum figure for the number of rules because within each paragraph are sections and subsections with discussions of doubtful points and even exceptions not conforming to the published Plena Gramatiko (Complete Grammar). Kalman Kalocsay&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; describes the language in 288 paragraphs in which, just as in Plena Analiza Gramatiko, there are several sections and subsections. Does the figure 288 signify simplification of the grammatical analysis of Esperanto or did Kalocsay omit some rules?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a manual titled Gramatiko de Esperanto, Miroslav Malovec&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt; requires a little over 150 paragraphs and sections to teach the grammar, while Gaston Waringhien&#039;s brochure gives a concise overview of the essence of Esperanto grammar in only 66 paragraphs&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Analytic School ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to the doctrine of the Analytic School (Analiza Skolo) founded by Luis Mimo, the ingenious Fundamental set of sixteen rules is incomplete but can be completed by application of logic which determines the structure of the language up to the last detail&amp;lt;ref name=xa /&amp;gt;. Mimo stresses the point that the sixteen Fundamental rules impress learners favorable but they in no way determine how the language is to be used&amp;lt;ref name=ze /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Now, the rules not given by Zamenhof, which are immanent in the language, have been given by the Analytic School by means of a systematic analysis and control with the help of the sole means of language analysis, logic, which in every case gives the correct answer; just one, because, already having been provided with its elements, nothing in the artificial language can be capricious&amp;quot; (p. 241).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mimo&#039;s Kompleta lernolibro de regula Esperanto (Complete textbook of regular Esperanto) was published in 1973. It has a 31-lesson systematic grammar, but the presentation is not complete since the second part has not yet been published. Still another one of Mimo&#039;s books exists only in manuscript form: Esperanto por la jaroj du mil (Esperanto for the year 2000). Consequently, the number of rules which can arise from the logical analysis of the 16-rule Fundamental grammar by adherents of the Analytic School is not ascertainable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Conclusion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if an investigation were to be undertaken for the purpose of listing each separate illustration of Esperanto language usage (as Gregor did for the Italian language), I have the impression that no two grammarians would induce more or less the same number of rules. The only judicious answer to the question about the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is that which Gregor gave at the end of his study: &amp;quot;the grammatical rules of Es- peranto are much more than sixteen; however, Esperanto has fewer rules (i.e. items to be memorized) than other languages.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Notes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, K. and WRINGHIEN, G. Plena analiza gramatiko de Esperanto. 4th edition Rotterdam: Universala Esperanto-Asocio; 1980. 598 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt; GREGOR, Douglas B. Kiom da reguloy vere havas Esperanto? Science Revuo. 1982; 33 (1 [139]): 5-9. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, Klman. Rendszeres Eszperant nyelvtn. Budapest: Tankonyvkiad; 1966. 243 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt; MALOVEC, Miroslav. Gramatiko de Esperanto. Trebic (Czechoslovakia): 1988 102 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt; WARINGHIEN, G. A.B.C. d&#039;Espranto  l&#039;usage de ceux qui aiment les lettres. Paris: SAT-Amikaro; 1967 74 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xa&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Sur la vojoj de la Analiza Skolo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1987 278 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ze&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Pledo por unueca lingvo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1985 287 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from David Morrow ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: David was apparently a bit upset at comments from Ralph Dumain on the Lojban community, and at Donald Harlow&#039;s comments.]&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not a &amp;quot;computer nerd&amp;quot; and I am not much interested in science fiction. I am a middle aged blue collar worker, I only own a word processor, and the only fiction I read is usually Middle English or a few types of modern writing that are not speculative. I suspect some Esperantists see a real threat...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[With this, let us end the discussion of Lojban and Esperanto, at least until there are more speakers of Lojban (especially those who know Esperanto as well), who can offer facts and experiences, instead of opinions. Thus: &#039;n&#039; (the end of &#039;Esperanto and Lojban discussion&#039;)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s start with some comparative artificial linguistics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Nick Nicholas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A text in Volapk, Esperanto, Ido, and Interglossa. To avoid the usual Pater Noster, I translated a Suzanne Vega song. I do not guarantee my stylistics in Volapk and Ido.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The Volapk was corrected with the help of Dean Gahlon, and the corrected text with notes from both are found in the text below.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LANGUAGE (1987) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If language were liquid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it would be rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Instead here we are&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a silence more eloquent&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than any word could ever be&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Words are too solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t move fast enough&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;to catch the blur in the brain&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that flies by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to meet you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a timeless placeless place&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somewhere out of context&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and beyond all consequences&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s go back to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;on Little West Twelfth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it is not far away&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the river is there&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the sun and the space&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they are all laying low&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and we&#039;ll sit in the silence&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that comes rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t use words again&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t mean what I meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t say what I said&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They&#039;re just the crust of the meaning&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;with realms underneath&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never even moved through&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== PK (Volapk, 1879) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If pk binom-la flumlik&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ininjogom-v&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Plaso is binobs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in stil&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt; pkfikum&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ka evelo kanom vd anik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vds binoms tu fimik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no mufoms sto vifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;al begetn nekleilati&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; in zebm&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ailoveflitom ed egolom &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vipob oli kolkmn&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in top netimik netopik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;sempo pl zisim&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt; mov sukads valik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gegolobsd in bumot&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;len Balsetelik Vesda Smast&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no binom fagik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e flum binom us&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e sol e spads&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;valik nepleidoms [are unproud]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ed osiedobs in stil2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ainingonom ed egolom&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No odenugebob vdis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no maloms kelosi imalob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no pkoms kelosi ipkob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Binoms te lujal sima&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ko kinns diso&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pebemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo sgo pedugoll&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Nick: flumlik - I had vatik, wet [watery]. The original is liquid.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Dean: Your &#039;nebset&#039; [here] seems to be a noun form of nebsik=&#039;silence&#039;. My dictionary lists &#039;stil&#039; as a noun meaning &#039;silence&#039;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;Dean: interesting formation for &#039;blur&#039;, by the way! Nick: Lit. not-clear-thing. Cf. my Esp maldistintajxo. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGVO (Esperanto, 1887) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(An x means that the previous letter has a cap over it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se la lingvo estus likva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Anstatauxe cxi tie ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento pli elokventa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol iam povus ia ajn vorto &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vortoj tro solidas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ili ne movigxas suficxe rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la maldistintajxon en la cerbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu preterflugas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi sxatus renkonti vin&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ie ekster cxirkauxteksto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj trans cxiuj sekvoj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni reiru al la konstruajxo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cxe la Malgranda Okcidenta Dekdua&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi ne estas malproksime&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la rivero estas tie&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la suno kaj la spaco &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kusxas neefekte [not flashy] &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu enfluegas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vortojn denove&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne esprimas kion mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne diras kion mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Ili estas nur la krusto de la signifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegoj sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam tusxitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam perturbitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam ecx tramovitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Ido, 1907) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se linguo esus liquida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Vice hik ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento plu eloquenta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kam irgatempe povus irga vorto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vorti esas tro solida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;oli ne movas sat rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la desdistintajo en la cerbero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua preterflugas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi amus te renkontar&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ulube exter kuntexto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e trans omna konsequi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni retroirez ad la konstrukturo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;che Mikra Uesta Dekeduesma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol ne esas dista&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la rivero esas ibe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la suno e la spaco&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;omni jacas base&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua enfluegas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vorti itere&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne esprimas quon mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne diras quon mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Oli esas nur la krusto dil signifiko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegi sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Nultempe tusxita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe perturbita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe mem tramovita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interglossa, ancestor of Glosa, is interesting in that it emulates English &amp;amp; Chinese in having an isolative structure, and jettisoning the parts-of-speech distinctions endemic to flexional/agglutinative lingos. It is essentially Basic English in Greek; there are about 10 verbs, qualified by &#039;amplifiers&#039; ending in -o. Nouns are made distinct from (presumably) adverbs by being prefixed by a location preposition, a possessive, a numeral, or a &#039;general article&#039; like all, some, or the default &#039;u&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== U GLOSA (Interglossa, 1943) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Postulo u Glosa habe liquo;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re forto kine in.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Na habe loco para vice re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in no-Phono; Su dicte major&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;de pan Verba u Chron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Plu Verba habe stereo excesso.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no kine satio celero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;tendo u Rapo de no-Luce-re in Cerbera;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su kine tele in Aero plus apo. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volo habe syn Tu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in Topo minus Topo plus minus Chron,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;extra plu syn Logo-re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus tele pan Sequo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Peti Na kine verso a mi Cameri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;loco micro occidento Via mono du.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re no habe tele&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus u Potami habe loco apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;U Heli syn Volumo habe non-alto,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus na post gene sedi in no_Phono;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su forto kine in plus apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi no acte utilo plu Verba itero.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no dicte Re; Mi pre dicte.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no habe u Significo; Mi pre date.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu eque no major de Area de Significo&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;syn plu hypo mega Loco,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge acte sensitivo,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge micro mote,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cleisto zero tem ge kine trans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Despite my criticisms: there are some cute syntactic features in this Lingo. Take my translation of with realms underneath: with plural underneath big place. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan Derzhanski supplied a corresponding translation into Intal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Intal, 1970) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Si le linguo esud likvid&lt;br /&gt;
it vud influega&lt;br /&gt;
Vise to yen nos&lt;br /&gt;
in silentes maks elokvent&lt;br /&gt;
kam eni vort potud ever es&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Le vortos es tro solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non mova sat rapid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;por kapta le nebulaj nel serber&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel preterfluga e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volud vu renkontra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in sintemp sinlok lok&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somlok ekstra kontekst&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e ultra omni konsekvens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An le Min Oksident Desduesmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a le konstruktur let nos rivada&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;non es fern&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le river es ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le sun e le spas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les omnos yasa bas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e nos ve sida in le silentes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel influega e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi non ve uza vortos plus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non esprima ko mi esprimed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non dira ko mi dired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Es nur le krust del sens&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kun landegos sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp tokat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp perturbat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp mem tramovat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Bob&#039;s corresponding translation for Lojban. Not only does it allow comparison with the other ALs, but this particular text shows off a lot of features about Lojban. Bob comments on the translation, presents a literal English equivalent, and comments on the effort and its implications for artificial languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== (Lojban, 1991) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The translation is not quite as literal as Nick&#039;s appears to be (not being familiar with the other three ALs). I have tried to maintain a sense of the style, denotation, and connotation, of the words used. However, Lojban is NOT an Indo-European language, and certain things must be rephrased in order to be both (unambiguously) grammatical and to capture the meaning correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is less tolerant of metaphor than other languages, but does allow analytic metaphors (where the predicate place structures are semantically preserved in the combination).&lt;br /&gt;
# Nick describes the text as a song. I saw no apparent match in rhythm and/or syllable count between lines of the English and the AL versions. I presume therefore that the translation is in free verse and is not intended to match the music (which I don&#039;t know anyway).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mela&#039;e lu bangu li&#039;u ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi bangu cu litki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.inaja ri sutfle fi ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.iku&#039;i na go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.ili&#039;i nunsma semau ro valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;temau leka zanselsku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi valsi cu duksligu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na sutra co banzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le mu&#039;e kavbu le besysutra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi sutfau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi djica lenu penmi do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ca noda vi node&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ma&#039;inai rodi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ba&#039;o ro jagdimna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;u mi&#039;o xruti fi le dinju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pe vi la cmalu ke stici gaimoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i na&#039;e darno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le rirxe cu zvati&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le solri .e le vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cu no&#039;e se zgana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi&#039;o vu zutse va&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lei smaji poi sutflefau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .ai mi banoroi pilno loi valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na smuni lemi selsmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e na velsku lemi selsku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e pilka le smuni sekai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le baltutra nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi noroi se pencu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi se jicla&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi mecrai se pagre &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a literal English translation of the Lojban: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That represented by &amp;quot;Language&amp;quot;. New topic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Language is liquid,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;only if it (language) fast-flows to here.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But not-true, the latter.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Abstract-experiencing-of event-of-silence which-is-more-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than each (any) word,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;more-in the property of ameliorative(good)-being-expressed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Words are excess-solid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) are not quick such-that sufficient&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the abstract-achievement of capturing the brain-quick- thing&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which quickly-occurs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is-past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I desire the event of meeting you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;during no-when, at nowhere,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;according-to-reference-frame none&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the aftermath of all result-dooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Suggestion!) We return (ourselves-elliptical) to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which is at that called &#039;Little type-of West Twelfth- thing&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other-than far (it is - elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The river is at (it-elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun and the environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;are neutrally-other-than observed (neither extreme of observed/non-observed)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;We there-yonder sit in-environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;this (mass of) silence which swift-flowingly-happens &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I in-the-future-never use (of the mass of) Words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) do-not mean my thing-meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are-not forms-of-expressing my things-expressed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are skins of the meaning, characterized by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the grand-territory inside&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which never is touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never is stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never least-superlative passed-through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now a note/complaint/what have you which I think is most revealing of the nature and &#039;neutrality&#039; of the other languages. In the translations of the last verse, specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I won&#039;t use words again they don&#039;t mean what I mean they don&#039;t say what I say ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick translated both occurrences of English words &#039;mean&#039; and &#039;say&#039; with the same counterpart in each of the other three languages. But the English words do not denote the same thing. When a person says something, it is different from when words say something (in Lojban terms, the human is the expresser x1 of cusku, while the words are the medium of expression x4 of cusku). Likewise, the &amp;quot;meaning&amp;quot; of words is semantically distinct from the &amp;quot;meaning intention&amp;quot; of one who might use the words. This is intuitive to an English speaker, who knows the range of meaning of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If each of the other ALs use the same word to capture both senses of &amp;quot;mean&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;say&amp;quot;, then I assert that they are flawed and biased towards English and/or every other language that blurs these distinctions. I suspect that such blurring, if in other languages, will tend to be only in the culturally similar European ones. If Esperanto, Ido, and Volapk all borrowed European roots along with their complete semantic baggage, then those languages are going to be inherently less understandable to a non- European who does not share the cultural background.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a particularly insidious kind of bias because, as one Esperantist has pointed out, it seems that both the European and non-European are having &#039;the shared experience&#039; of acquiring the AL they both learn. But for one learner, it is predominantly a regularized, simplified, form of their own language; for the other, the subtle se- mantics needed for poetry is not shared. (This criticism applies more obviously for BASIC English, since people can easily see the confusing semantic range of the word-plus- preposition combinations that make that language work.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I do not claim that the difficulty is insurmountable. Certainly non-Europeans have written poetry in Esperanto that was understood and appreciated by Europeans, possibly in a way that is not as easily possible if the European had to learn the native language of the poet, which has a much heavier cultural/connotative load. I suspect that (European) speakers who can converse in Esperanto fluently with non-Europeans, and who therefore are thinking in Es- peranto rather than translating from their native language as they go, have largely bypassed this difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My points can be summarized as two:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. I agree with those that criticize ALs implicitly as being languages that people think they know after finishing the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. As a corollary, it is a disadvantage for an AL to be &#039;much like&#039; any other single language in particular. The speakers of that language have either a benefit or a handicap, depending on how you look at it; they have an easier time learning subtle features of the AL and a harder time recognizing the differences that MUST be present for it to be an effective intercultural communications tool. The former is an unfair bias; the latter calls into question whether the AL is suitable as an IL. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since I lead the Lojban effort, I of course (biasedly?) support Lojban as overcoming these issues. Lojban is just as easy to learn as other ALs with lots of regularity and simplification. But since the language is tied to a predicate grammar strikingly different from any other lan- guage, a speaker translating anything but the simplest statements must significantly reformulate the expression (as shown in the translation above) in order to properly express it in Lojban. The result is easily understood to another Lojban speaker, and indeed in back-translation, is not too difficult in English. But a Lojbanist MUST think clearly about what s/he is saying in order to even say the sentence; those who use other ALs do not necessarily do so. Thus, I think Lojban aids a learner in acquiring the &#039;different perspective&#039; of a second language, and a Lojbanist who gets by the initial hurdle of unfamiliar words and structures more rapidly acquires that added competence that is considered &#039;knowing&#039; a language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Lojbanic Fairy Tale ===&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following appears to be a lot of text, but it employs the repetition and simple syntax inherent to good fairy tales. Also, since the tale should be recognizable to most Lojbanists, it should be relatively easy to understand from a word-for word translation effort. I have made it still easier, by forcing line breaks at key grammatical boundaries. Give it a try; turn to the English translation later only if necessary.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani&lt;br /&gt;
: tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
: le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
:: seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jbobliku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section. This is the uncorrected letter which was actually sent, and has some minor semantics errors, though it should be understandable.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot. de&#039;i la&#039;e li so pi&#039;e pa vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi doi ti.pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda ledo xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko kanro&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;la silvian.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A la lojbangirz. Group Translation Project? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1982-1984, Jim Carter wrote extensively in the then- version of Loglan (he claimed an hour a day). Because the language was ill-defined, he used several non-standard usages, and the arguments over these non-standard usages were among the precipitating events for the political squabble that effectively destroyed the Institute (and still haunts us today).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before this happened, though, he wrote and published several pieces in Loglan, including at least two short stories. These stories were written in the language, not translated from English, although Jim did provide rough translations into English. The two stories, &amp;quot;The Welding Shop&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; are the most extensive writing ever in Loglan. As original works, they serve as a starting point for a Loglan literature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim has given us copyright release and permission to retranslate or update (or what have you) his texts into the current Lojban, and to use them as the basis for teaching materials and/or a reader. We intend to do so. Or rather, I would like to see you, the Lojban community, make this effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a trivial job. Some of Jim&#039;s variant constructs were not added to Lojban. Jim tended to use vocabulary based on the old Loglan vocabulary, which was studded with gawdawful tanru. Lojban, of course, has some 40% more gismu and a richer grammar than the earlier Log- lan; hence its expressive power is greater and the phrasing should be changed. Another difficulty factor is length. The stories are not short, running several typewritten pages, perhaps 170 and 90 paragraphs, respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until the effort is completed, we are asking everyone to try their hand at this. Participate to any extent you choose. Translate a word, a sentence, or the entire paragraph. Even the most novice among you can reinvent a tanru or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your contribution to us, and we&#039;ll collate ideas and print the best result(s). People who submit a full paragraph translation will be given additional paragraphs to work on, and we&#039;ll publish these results as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suggestions - please provide an English equivalent for whatever you submit so that reviewers know what part of the text you are expressing, and can check their (and your) understanding. Make tanru or lujvo as you choose. If you don&#039;t know how to use rafsi in making lujvo use the ex- panded form of replacing the final vowel of each but the last term with &#039;y&#039;, or even hyphenate the gismu together so we know you want a lujvo instead of a tanru. (An example: rilti-cadzu-bende -&amp;gt; riltycadzybende = marching-band).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Feel free to comment and suggest other conventions. This is an experiment and we don&#039;t know the best ways for it to work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The complete result will be assembled into a story, checked by Jim Carter to ensure he is willing to have his name on the result, and published as a whole. All contributors to the final text will be noted for historical purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first paragraph of the &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; story (which is a sci- ence fiction story of a sort), previously offered to the computer mailing-list &amp;quot;lojban-list&amp;quot;, will serve as start- off and example. The process of preparing the paragraph is shown, to give you an idea of what to expect with later paragraphs. The Lojban effort was by Sylvia Rutiser. Since only one person worked on this effort, everyone is invited to comment on the tanru she chose, or to suggest corrections. Then go to work on the second paragraph, which follows thereafter. Deadline for publication submittals is approximately 20 May 1991 (though we&#039;ll consider others received later in preparing the final version).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What we&#039;re providing: the first paragraph of the Akira story, as translated into English in two styles. The first is roughly identical to Jim&#039;s original English translation, and is somewhat colloquial. The second is an attempt to structurally convey Jim&#039;s original Loglan (with necessary corrections) in &amp;quot;Lojban-structured&amp;quot; English, the style in which we typically print &amp;quot;literal translations&amp;quot; of Lojban. tanru are literally translated; many or most of these need to be re-invented or at least thought about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira reeled in the fish to his inflatable boat. It was fat, spotted, silvery, and delicious. He put it in his icebox. The oven-like sun cooked his brown skin, and he retired under the canopy. But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder. Someone floated down on a parachute. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe the pilot needs to be rescued.&amp;quot; He threw up the kite-sail into the wind and sailed toward him. He thought, &amp;quot;This will make a great (bold) story when I tell it. My young friends will love it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.akir. (he-5) turn-pull(s) the fish to his-5 air-full boat. It (the fish) is fat and round-marked and silver-like and delicious.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He-5 puts it (the fish) inside his-5 ice-box. The oven-sun cooks his-5 brown skin and therefore- motivatedly recur-self-safe-puts (himself) under the shadow-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which-is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something-4 down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by .akir., who thinks: Perhaps the flyer-driver dangerous-without-makes needingly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by narrator: He-5 throws the flyer-sail at the breeze and sail-goes towards it-4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by him-5: It (the event-just-mentioned = the danger- without-making) will bravely be a history of-something-3 by me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My young friends will long-time-be-fond-of it-3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: Sylvia says that she is not sure that her tanru/lujvo are the best, and was most dissatisfied by the metaphor for falling by parachute. Feel free to suggest better ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Sylvia&#039;s text, as submitted uneditted. As printed, it has some semantic errors. After wards, Bob discusses these errors, and suggests corrections. But the text is grammatical, and should be readable without the corrections, especially if you&#039;ve read the intermediate English above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti .i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska .i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe .i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a .ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani .i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru .i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru .i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for Sylvia&#039;s back-translation of her effort, with comments from Bob. Bob has left some questions open for further suggestions and improvements. The analysis may show that translation is neither a simple, nor an absolutely certain process (but it&#039;s a fun way to learn the language).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the fish (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: I don&#039;t much like &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;; if you don&#039;t know what it means from context and experience, you&#039;d be unlikely to guess. Lojban has a gismu &amp;quot;jendu&amp;quot; that could be useful. Also the need to use &amp;quot;seka&#039;a&amp;quot; indicates that &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot; has obviously got the wrong place structure. To make my objection more obvious, here are two alternate sentences with different objects than a fish:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the knob (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the pier (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These make sense with implication of a totally different meaning of &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;. Perhaps muvdu would be a useful component of the tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The-recent-it is plump and round-marked and silver-color.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Akira has been assigned to ko&#039;u, ra can only refer to the fish. We need to think about what we want skari to mean. Does &amp;quot;ti skari&amp;quot; mean &amp;quot;This is a color&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;This is colored&amp;quot;, or are these the same thing? A safe way would be the tanru &amp;quot;skari rijnysi&#039;a&amp;quot; &amp;quot;colorishly silver-like&amp;quot;. Any other ideas? The original had &amp;quot;delicious&amp;quot; as another property of the fish, but this should be easy for someone to fix.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now puts last-it at it5&#039;s cold-box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The English uses &#039;it&#039; here, but for clarity, I would use le finpe instead of ri. Akira probably put it inside, not just &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; the bold-box, but this may be picky. You could add the word nenri to the end to be clear (at the cold-box insides), or use lekseltanxe, putting the fish at the cold box-contents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Figuratively (the oven sun is a cooker of it5&#039;s brown skin ) end figurative. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole sentence might be figurative, or maybe just the first tanru; I would take sunburn as a result of sun- cooking skin. Sylvia has marked it correctly for a whole- sentence-figurative. With toknu simsa solri (oven-like sun), the figurative markers would not be necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora points out that tanru can be both restrictive and non-restrictive, and prefers an explicit relative clause instead of &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u bunre skapi&amp;quot;. The existing text could be taken to imply that the sun cooked Akira&#039;s brown skin, but had no effect on the paler portions of his hide; this would be a restrictive interpretation: &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi poi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin that is brown. The more plausible interpretation is &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi noi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin, which incidentally is brown). If nothing else, this example shows how ambiguous tanru are, and yet how easily they can be diambiguated when necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade because of (last sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has translated &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; as a logical connective between two sentences. But given that a motivational &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; occurs later in the English, it should probably be reflected in the connective:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and-therefore-motivating it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even combine the two sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le toknu simsa solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi semu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The oven-like sun cooks of it5&#039;s brown skin, motivating the event of it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the original for the last sumti was &amp;quot;canopy&amp;quot;, a more exact tanru might be selctino drudi &amp;quot;shadowing-roof&amp;quot;. Other possibilities? &amp;quot;Under-comes&amp;quot; is a bit more limited than Jim&#039;s original &amp;quot;recur-self-safe-puts (himself)&amp;quot; - the recurrence and the safety are lost. Can someone do better?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now looks at the up-thing because of something1 now makes a line related to smoke which-incidentally is across the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fe is superfluous, as is the ge&#039;u; the latter is reasonable though, in that elidable terminators are welcome when they help break up a complex structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re in a narrative. The ca on the bridi therefore means that story-time is the same as the previous sentence. Thus Sylvia&#039;s sentence translates as &amp;quot;It5 at the same time looks at ... which is just then making a line ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looking at the original, we can see that a bit is missing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which- is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Suddenly&amp;quot; is suksa. Jim&#039;s original used &amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; (implying &amp;quot;bazi&amp;quot;) where Sylvia used &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;. But one other things is wrong. Akira looks up because of the moving across the sky and the explosion - indeed, it was probably the latter that caught his attention, and he later noticed the line of smoke and inferred the motion from this. Sylvia has exiled the explosion to a separate sentence that has no causal connection to the looking up, and Akira is looking up because of the smoke-line. What she has said makes perfect sense, but is not what the original said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My attempt (making minimal effort - I could probably do better, but this is your project):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.izibo suksa fa lenu ko&#039;u gapcatlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.imu&#039;ibo da zbasu lo danmo linji noi ragve le tsani ku&#039;o gi&#039;ebabo spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Shortly, is sudden, the event of it5&#039;s above-looking.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is because of somethingx making a smoke-line, which is across the sky, and-then exploding characterized by intense-illumination and lightning-noise. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note my non-English phrasing of the first part, due to &amp;quot;sudden&amp;quot; not normally being an English predicate. Note also that &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; that is required to terminate the noi relative clause. Otherwise, the translation would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because of the event of somethingx making a smoke-line, which crosses the sky and-then explodes characterized by intense-illumination and lightning- noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The smoke-line did not explode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something1 now explodes (with intense illumination) and lightning-caused type of noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Sylvia&#039;s version, the sentences should probably be joined with &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; to be logically correct, since &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; is by definition a logical variable. Pragmatically, what she did was OK, though - in non-logical argument, a listener would understand that the &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; in both sentences is the same. The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; says that this is happening at the same time as the previous sentence (i.e. when something makes a line). It is better left tenseless (the English &amp;quot;and now ...&amp;quot; would typically equate to &amp;quot;and then immediately&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something2 now slowly cloth-falls.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; again indicates simultaneity with the previous sentence. Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;Something down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&amp;quot; would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de nitflevoi sepi&#039;o lo falbu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora suggests &amp;quot;cloth-brake-fall&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de bukyjabre farlu. .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira now thinks &amp;quot;an airplane-captain now needs an event of being assisted&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has Akira making a bolder guess as to what was flying before it exploded. It may not have been an airplane, and indeed, since this is a science fiction story, I suspect it isn&#039;t (I didn&#039;t check). Jim&#039;s original tanru was &amp;quot;flyer-driver&amp;quot; or volsazri&amp;quot;. Again, I think the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is unnecessary, and more Lojbanically unspecified in favor of &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. Need for assistance is a rather unintense need for rescue, though technically correct (the faller needs assistance in &amp;quot;continuing to live&amp;quot;). Perhaps someone can come up with a better expression (consider &amp;quot;ckape&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru It5 now lifts the sail at the location of the breeze and sail goes to earlier-it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; - a lot happening simultaneously in Sylvia&#039;s story. &amp;quot;de&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le farlu&amp;quot; are clearer than the vague &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot;, which could refer to a lot of things at this point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has misunderstood Jim&#039;s description of the means of propoulsion. It is a &amp;quot;kite-sail&amp;quot; which Akira &amp;quot;throws into the wind&amp;quot;. This sounds rather exotic, while Sylvia&#039;s boat sounds like an ordinary sailboat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How about something like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u renro le volfalnu seri&#039;a le nu kavbu le ca&#039;erbi&#039;e .i fankla le farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 throws the flying-sail causing the state of catching the pusher-breeze. Sail-goer to the faller.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 thinks &amp;quot;a now-event is going to be a brave story- subject told by me. The set of my young-friends will for a long time be fond of last-it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is vaguer than Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;a now event&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;the event-just-mentioned&amp;quot;, which, following Akira&#039;s thoughts as quoted, is specifically &amp;quot;the rescue&amp;quot;. If you take the quotes as literal thoughts, &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the event-just- mentioned&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also have a little trouble with &amp;quot;a brave story- subject&amp;quot;, though Jim did something similar to convey &amp;quot;bold story&amp;quot;; if the story-subject is bold, it is probably a person - yet the story is described as about the rescue, not about either the rescuer or rescuee, either of whom could have been brave. I suspect &amp;quot;banli&amp;quot; is better than &amp;quot;virnu&amp;quot; for bold, or at least a compound of the two &amp;quot;vribanli&amp;quot;, and modifying &amp;quot;lisri&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;se lisri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;bazu&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;will for a long time&amp;quot;, but rather &amp;quot;will a long time later&amp;quot;. I think Sylvia wanted &amp;quot;baze&#039;u&amp;quot; &amp;quot;in the future during a long interval&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sets do not normally perform actions or have feelings like &amp;quot;being fond of&amp;quot;. Sylvia wants a mass &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le&#039;i&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; unfortunately refers back to the set of friends, giving us a set noted for self-love (truly unusual in a set). Jim&#039;s original assigned the rescue to a pro- sumti somewhere between &amp;quot;di&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ko&#039;i&amp;quot; (something3/it3), but we are in someone&#039;s thoughts here, and I suspect anaphora are not in good order. (It also is unclear whether the friends are fond of the rescue or the story about the rescue in Jim&#039;s original.) &amp;quot;The rescue&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;the story&amp;quot; should be used here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia&#039;s effort was remarkable, given the complexity of the text and that she had little or no help; she did use the old parser to check her work. We are not expecting the average Lojbanist to do this well on a first attempt. Translation is non-trivial as an exercise in language use. Especially when you try to capture the style and sentence complexity of the original, as Sylvia did. Jim did not use trivial grammar in his story. When you first write in Lojban, give it your best shot, but expect to make lots of errors. You&#039;ll find yourself learning quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, feel free to comment on this text, or even use the pieces Sylvia and Bob came up with along with your own ideas to come up with your own version of the paragraph. Useful comments and a revised translation may appear in next issue. Then brave souls can try all or part of the following, which is the second paragraph of the story. The first version again is colloquial English, and the second, Lojbanized-English, back-translated from the original old- Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parachute was floating in the sea, but the pilot was nowhere to be seen. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe he drowned&amp;quot;. He pulled the parachute into the stern of the boat, and he discovered a harness containing a radio and a knife and a flashlight. But nobody was wearing it. He called, &amp;quot;Hey, pilot! Where are you? Say something, because I don&#039;t see you.&amp;quot; But nobody answered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New paragraph medium-time-offset the fall-cloth floats to the sea. and in contrast the flyer-driver is-not-seen. Said by it5 (Akira): mild-belief (perhaps) it2 past water- breathed. Said by narrator: it5 inside-pulls the fall- cloth to the behind-part of the boat. It5 discovers something1 which incidentally-is-a-joined-garment, one which is joined to a radio and a knife and a hand-light- device. In contrast, no something2 garment-uses something1 (the harness). Said by it5: &amp;quot;Attention the flyer-driver: At where? (Imperative) Cry out and there- fore *motivationally I see you.&amp;quot; Said by narrator: In contrast, no *something1 respondingly-talks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notes on some errors in Jim&#039;s original: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The motivational causal seems like the wrong choice of causal. Crying out won&#039;t motivate the seeing. But be careful. Other causal choices may be no better, and you may want a non-causal to express Jim&#039;s intent by the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Be careful of your &#039;somethings&#039; in this passage; unfortunately Jim didn&#039;t. In this particular case, for example, either 1) use a different &#039;something&#039; than &amp;quot;something1&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;something2&amp;quot;, 2) use the UI cmavo that cancels anaphora (but this cancels the it5 assignment too), 3) correctly use .ije between sentences using the same referent of something, 4) or assign a specific &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;something&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, here is Bob&#039;s quarterly in-Lojban essay. As before, no translation is given; this is the &#039;prize&#039; that is only for people who dare. (We&#039;ll look at and respond to any questions, responses, or translation attempts that you send us, but you have to try first.) Bob is writing directly in Lojban, and trying to &#039;think in the language&#039; rather than express ideas in English and translate them. The topic this issue turned out to be more timely than Bob thought it would be when he came up with the idea for it several months ago. Enjoy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o pucaki le prula&#039;i ke xamoi masti ku mi rirci zgana ja pensi le cmene po&#039;u la. ku,EIT. .i mi ca cfari lenu pensi lo sidbo noi binxo co mutce vajni roma&#039;a .ije mi pensi le sidbo noi srana la djim. braun. noi mi sinma .ije mi ca djica lenu ci&#039;arsku le sidbo fu la me &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i le ki&#039;a sidbo vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lu&#039;e le sidbo ca glico jenai lojbo valsi .isemu&#039;ibo mi troci co finti lo jbovla .i .ei le jbovla terfanva &amp;quot;zoi .gic. hero .gic.&amp;quot; goi ko&#039;a .i kiku mi ca ciska&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pu pamoi fa lezu&#039;o mi sisku le gicyvla smuni du&#039;o le glico vlamarcku .i mi binxo lo jimpe be leza&#039;i le valsi cu so&#039;imei smuni .i mi ca troci lenu cusku loi smuni gi&#039;e fanva ri la lojban. .ibabo mi ka&#039;e casnu leka la djim. braun me ko&#039;a pe&#039;i .i de&#039;e velsku lei smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pamai le me ko&#039;a mormuprai goi ko&#039;e selranmi gi&#039;e tsali je virnu ke cevni joi nanmu .i remai le gicvla cu smuni roda poi nanmu gi&#039;e tarti le simsa be ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(to .iku&#039;i la xeros. cu ba&#039;e ninmu selranmi fi loi xelso gi&#039;e na&#039;e me ko&#039;a .i le glibau cu ponse le drata je kampu bo krasi valsi poi smuni le ba&#039;e ninmu poi me ko&#039;a .i la lojban. ka&#039;e pilno lo valsi pamei poi smuni le sidbo secau .o&#039;a leka smuni le selcinse toi)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cimai .uinai le gicyvla cu smuni so&#039;i drata .i smuni roda poi vajni prenu to ji&#039;a cficku rajraipre toi zi&#039;a poi tatmo&#039;a zanmupli prenu zi&#039;a .oi poi nujdja klesi .i le&#039;i smuni cu mutce vrici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o do smuni ma fau lenu do skicu de sepi&#039;o le gicyvla po&#039;u ko&#039;a .i cai na&#039;eka&#039;e jimpe le gicyvla .i mi ba&#039;e na xusra le nu la djim braun. cu nujdja zo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;u mupli leka lezu&#039;o fanva lo valsi cu mutce nandu .i mi cuxna pa smuni be le gicyvla be&#039;o poi seldji .i mi pilno le jbovla poi velsku le selcu&#039;a smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi jinvi lenu le vajni sidbo po&#039;e ko&#039;a cu si&#039;o lo prenu cu pijvri tarti .i mi jinvi lenu la djim. braun pu mupli leka pijvritai .iki&#039;ubo tu&#039;e la djim. braun. zivle piso&#039;e leri nunjmive lepu&#039;u finti .i ri ki&#039;u le bangu ka rutni ku to&#039;e tersinma le certu noi la djim. braun. cu nitcu joi djica lenu ke&#039;a sarji tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a le ca natmi gunma sonci cu mupli leka pijvritai kei fau le jamna be le rakyjecta .i .a&#039;o ma&#039;a selctu fi loika pijvritai gi&#039;e morfu&#039;i tatri bacapiso&#039;iroi le vo&#039;a nunji&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Yellow-hair, and the three bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goldilocks and the Three Bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New topic) (Open indicator scope) I know culturally: The three person-bears are nested (in a house), associated- with-site the trees.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib. goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The indeed-large-bear which-is called Father-Bear is assigned as it1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib. goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The not-really-large-bear which-is called Mother-Bear is assigned as it2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib. goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The opposite-of-large-bear which-is called Child-Bear is assigned as it3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Once upon a time&amp;quot; the three bears lived in a house by the trees, the biggest bear, Papa Bear, who we&#039;ll call #1, the medium-size bear, Mama Bear, who we&#039;ll call #2, and the smallest bear, Baby Bear, who we&#039;ll call #3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) Each of the bears possesses one of the eating cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s cup is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s cup is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s cup is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each bear has a bowl. #1&#039;s bowl is large. #2&#039;s bowl is medium-size. #3&#039;s bowl is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sitter-chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s chair is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s chair is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s chair is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sitting chair. #1&#039;s chair is large. #2&#039;s chair is medium-size. #3&#039;s chair is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sleeper-beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s bed is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s bed is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s bed is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sleeping bed. #1&#039;s bed is large. #2&#039;s bed is medium-size. #3&#039;s bed is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears are awake&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and fill the cups with (some-of)-the wet-grain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivatedly-because the-event-of eating the first-meal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, the grain is excess&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the property of warm-ness by-standard the-process-of- eating&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;by-reason-therefore the-activity-of the bears walking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Beautiful day. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears awaken, and fill their cups with porridge in order to eat breakfast. But the porridge is too hot to eat, justifying the bears going for a walk. It&#039;s a nice day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The child, who-is called Yellow-hair, assigned to it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;looks at the inside of the house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;No person is inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;therefore-motivating the-event-of it5 inside-walking. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The child, Goldilocks, who we&#039;ll call #5, looks into the house. Nobody is there, so #5 walks inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is hungry&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- eating-of-the-grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-eats of-it1&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-indeed-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-eats of-it2&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-opposite-of-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-eats of-it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the grain) is-perfect in the property of warmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 eating all-of it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three cups. #5 is hungry, and she therefore decides to eat the porridge. First #5 tries to eat #1&#039;s porridge, but it is too hot. Second, #5 tries to eat #2&#039;s porridge, but it is too cold. Third, #5 tries to eat #3&#039;s porridge. It&#039;s perfectly warm, and she therefore eats all of the porridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sitting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-sits-on it1&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-indeed-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-sits-on it2&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-opposite-of-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-sits-on it3&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the chair) is-perfect in the property of highness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 sitting-on it3&#039;s chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;causing-therefore the-event-of it (the chair) breaks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three chairs. #5 is tired, and she therefore decides to sit. First #5 tries to sit on #1&#039;s chair, but it is too high. Second, #5 tries to sit on #2&#039;s chair, but it is too low. Third, #5 tries to sit on #3&#039;s chair. It&#039;s perfect in height, and she therefore sits in #3&#039;s chair, causing it to break.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is much-tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sleepily-resting-on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-rests-on it1&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-indeed-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-rests-on it2&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-opposite-of-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-rests-on it3&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the bed) is-perfect in the property of firmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-activity-of it5 sleeping. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three beds. #5 is very tired, and she therefore decides to rest. First #5 tries to rest on #1&#039;s bed, but it is too hard. Second, #5 tries to rest on #2&#039;s bed, but it is too soft. Third, #5 tries to rest on #3&#039;s bed. It&#039;s perfectly firm, and she therefore sleeps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears return and want the grain. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears return and want their porridge. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) It1 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something1 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bowl, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something2 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot; #2 looks at its bowl, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something3 ate ALL of my grain.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bowl, and says in its soft-voice, &amp;quot;Something ate ALL of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something12 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#1 looks at its chair, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something22 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its chair, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something33 DESTRUCTIVELY sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its chair, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something destructively sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bed, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something23 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its bed, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 was-and-IS_NOW sleepily-resting-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bed, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something slept and IS SLEEPING in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) Because of this (it3&#039;s looking and saying), it5 is awake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears look at it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which-reason-justifies the-event-of it5 runningly-leaving.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears never-intersection-later see it5. This causes #5 to be awake. The bears look at #5, justifying #5&#039;s hasty departure. The bears never again see #5. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;End of text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The End.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The preceding was among other things an exercise in causal constructions. It is worthwhile to examine closely when each causal was used, and how it affected the translation. Some of the choices were marginal (and some indeed were changed during editing of this text).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the insertion of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;sipna&amp;quot; in those sentences that refer to the bed being slept on. You don&#039;t need a bed to sleep, but you do need to be upon something to rest-on it. Place structures are important in Lojban. (Without the &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, sentences translate like &amp;quot;it5 tryingly-sleeps in-some-way-associated-with it2&#039;s bed&amp;quot; which gets the point across, but none to exactly. In pragmatic situations, of course, this version would be correctly understood given the context, (which is why guessing at place structures usually works).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One further change would probably be justified, but was not made. Goldilocks, as the story progresses &amp;quot;troci broda&amp;quot; &amp;quot;tryingly-does-something&amp;quot; in John&#039;s text. This becomes especially cumbersome with the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; construction, because &amp;quot;troci sipna vreta&amp;quot; groups in pairs from the left, giving &amp;quot;tryingly-sleeps kind-of-rests&amp;quot;, losing some symmetry by dividing the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; tanru. To right-group, you need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci ke sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
troci sipna bo vreta &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which identically mean: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tryingly sleepily-rests&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is more easily solved using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;, a word especially valuable with tanru involving &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;, and certain other words that link actions/events with intentions (&#039;intentional verbs&#039; in English). Inserting &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; inverts the tanru, making it translate much more clearly into English (and probably causing increased clarity in the Lojban as well). This gives the equivalent of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sipna vreta troci&lt;br /&gt;
sleepingly-rests-on attempts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but with the place structure of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, the final element of the tanru, determining the interpretation of the trailing sumti (the bed). The essential claim is that of trying, not of sleepingly-resting, which is the norm with intentional statements. Using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; preserves &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; as the essential claim, while allowing access to the trailing place of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci co sipna vreta le ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tries to sleepingly-rest-on the bed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was not made in the story because the vaguer tanru is sufficiently understandable given the context, and we&#039;re reluctant to make unnecessary changes in an translator&#039;s work. Besides, it gave the opportunity for this mini-lesson in &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;. (There is a more clear example of &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; given in the next commentary.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This letter was written about a month before Sylvia&#039;s attempt at the Carter paragraph. The difference is plain: she makes a lot of minor word choice errors because she had only just started studying the cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;At the locus of (non-Lojban) &amp;quot;2904 Beau Lane&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot;tu&#039;i&amp;quot; is the correct choice, not &amp;quot;di&#039;o&amp;quot;, for location on a letter. Also, to be more correct, &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; should be used on the &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; quote (giving the thing indicated by the address instead of the address), or optionally the new non- Lojban-name marker &amp;quot;la&#039;o&amp;quot;, which has the same grammar as &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; - this then treats the address as the name of a location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;i la&#039;eli so pi&#039;e pa vau coi doi ti.pitr. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;associated-with-date the-referent-of the number 9/1 (9 January), greetings O T.Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, the &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; isn&#039;t needed, since a date is merely a string of numbers. The &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; greetings here attaches to the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; on the previous line, since no &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; was used between the two lines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda le do xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob requested the event of my responding to your letter which is possessed by the Christ celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; would be more correct, giving the letter &amp;quot;loosely associated with&amp;quot; the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A mass of snow which a-while-ago fell, now melts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would have used &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot;, since she has a specific mass of snow in mind (the stuff on the ground here), but this isn&#039;t wrong, and indeed is a good usage of tense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun is an illuminator, observed by me. (I can see the sun shining.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission of the news which is the-event-of Athelstan (it1) went to Utah via mode his car motivated by the-event-of he desires the- event-of-talking to the Lojban-users at-specific-locus- Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In colloquial English, this is still complicated:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob just told me the news that Athelstan went to Utah in his car in order to talk to some Utah Lojbanists. and the sentence could have been simplified a bit to match that colloquial translation. Let&#039;s break this sentence up so it is more understandable:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
(New paragragh)                                            &lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  le nuzba po&#039;u                                            &lt;br /&gt;
     lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a                            &lt;br /&gt;
          pu klama                                         &lt;br /&gt;
    	     la iutas.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	     fu leko&#039;a karce                               &lt;br /&gt;
    	     mu&#039;i lenu                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        ko&#039;a djica                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     lenu tavla                            &lt;br /&gt;
    		       le lobypli                          &lt;br /&gt;
    		       sedi&#039;o la iutas.                    &lt;br /&gt;
The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission      &lt;br /&gt;
  of the news which is                                     &lt;br /&gt;
     the-event-of Athelstan (it1)                          &lt;br /&gt;
          went                                             &lt;br /&gt;
    	     to Utah                                       &lt;br /&gt;
    	     via mode his car                              &lt;br /&gt;
    	     motivated by the-event-of                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        he desires                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     the-event-of-talking                  &lt;br /&gt;
    		       to the Lojban-users                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		       at-specific-locus-Utah.             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure of news includes a source, so the outer-most selbri using &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t needed (I&#039;ll demonstrate in a moment). It also wasn&#039;t the main claim of the sentence, which was the news itself. In addition, &amp;quot;te benji&amp;quot; was a bad choice for Bob: &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; is a transmission of which this 3rd place is the origin. In this context, Bob is the first place of &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; - the transmit origin was somewhere in the house in Fairfax VA. A final error is in the places of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Sylvia here has equated the news (le nuzba) with the event, which is really &amp;quot;le se nuzba&amp;quot;, the 2nd place of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Here&#039;s Bob&#039;s version:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te nuzba lenu la. .atlstan. pu klama la .iutas. fu lera karce semu&#039;i lenu tavla le lobypli pe la .iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Bob was-just a-source-of-news of-the-event Athelstan went to-Utah in-his-car, motivated-to the-event-of talking-to the Lojban-users of Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even this non-colloquial translation is only slightly longer than the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo (New para.) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I now try the event of learning the set of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using the &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; construction mentioned in &amp;quot;The Three Bears&amp;quot; commentary, this would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi ca troci co cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I am now a tryer of-type learner-of-the-set-of-cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Either version is acceptable, and I won&#039;t state a preference. Nora prefers Sylvia&#039;s version, since it explicitly uses the place structure of &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, and she prefers to avoid tanru in favor of place structure usage whenever it is not excessively burdensome (and &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; is not much longer than &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Forgive me for the-amount-of bizarre-grammar closely-associated-with motivationally because of the referent-of-the-last-sentence (the trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colloquially:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please forgive me for the bizarre grammar that results from this (trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;po&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;; we usually use &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; for physical possession or a very close association. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; indicates a much looser association used with most phrases. Also, I doubt that the bizarre grammar was really motivated by the learning. The learning might be a reason, though: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leni cizra gerna pe ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) (Petition!) Your weather is pleasing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;.a&#039;o&amp;quot; (hope) seems like the more likely attitude, since there is little T.Peter can do about his weather. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko kanro &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Be healthy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi la silvian&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Greetings, Sylvia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She had not yet learned &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot;, and greeted instead of parted. A &#039;correct&#039; letter closer conveying her intent is &amp;quot;co&#039;omi&#039;e&amp;quot; (Partings!, I am ...) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael uses much more complex (and bizarre at times) grammar than Sylvia. He asked for a letter of his to be run through the parser, showing the result. I chose a short one that could be easily cleaned up. (The old parser does not properly handle attitudinals and tense compounds, and some newer cmavo, which Michael uses a lot of; therefore I have to manually add the deleted text to the parse output).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ze&#039;i was in Michael&#039;s original, was not grammatical nor particularly necessary, so I deleted it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is Michael&#039;s intended translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is from Michael Helsem a letter dated 18 November 1990. Hi y&#039;all. Here&#039;s some more money. Unfortunately it&#039;s less than I would prefer on account of my forthcoming trip to Mexico. Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? I&#039;ll get in touch with him maybe before I go... Here&#039;s a new palindrome: &amp;quot;Eureka! vagina-near!&amp;quot; - which is a bit more useful than the others of the pattern ...(ahem). Anyway, hope the others come through. Michael. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, intentions are only half the story. Here&#039;s how Bob reads the letter:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono ({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The soon utterances, from Michael Helsem, are-a-letter dated 18,00B,090 (18 million odd in some base greater than 12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&#039;o&amp;quot; is a &#039;real number&#039;, normally meaning &#039;thousands&#039; (depending on the normal place for inserting commas), used in writing large numbers. It can also replace 3 zeroes in large numbers such as business reports. Michael wanted &amp;quot;pi&#039;e&amp;quot;, the non-decimal separator, giving &amp;quot;18/B/90&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; is the non-base-10 digit for 11 (November).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i coi do&#039;opezi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings, you and others who are a short-distance-in-time away from ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; is used only for distances in time (now); in the past it could be either time or space distance, but this changed when we did the final tense grammar. This isn&#039;t necessarily clear in the published cmavo list, and we will be clarifying it in later versions (see also the sheet of changes enclosed with this issue). &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; is the corresponding space-time distance, but I would prefer &amp;quot;ve&#039;i&amp;quot; (lexeme VEhA) which indicates an interval (you and others in the space around ... [you implied])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Permission!) (Observative) Added-things type-of commander- gifts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No idea about what the attitudinal is, or for that matter, what the sentence means. Given the translation, I might conclude a typo for dinseldunda (money-gifts). This suggests that the money he sent was a donation rather than a voluntary balance contribution (the distinction is important), which is not reflected in the English. (We assumed a balance contribution). &amp;quot;selpleji&amp;quot; (something- paid) would be clearer for a balance contribution, or depending on how you philosophically look at it, something involving &amp;quot;se fatri pagbu&amp;quot; (distributed-part = share)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(I regret - self oriented!) The-last-sumti-it (you-and- others-near-in-time) is less than something1 which I, the something, want, less-than because my soon-future Mexican territory (*short-time-interval) event-of-travelling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would tend to take self-oriented-regret as an apology to himself, but this is to be determined by usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s clear from the translation that the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; was intended to refer to the money-gift, but there is no sumti in that sentence to refer to. &amp;quot;le jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le selyle&#039;i&amp;quot; would have served. Then, of course, Michael is using a comparison, and should therefore have some reference to amounts, so make that &amp;quot;le ni jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le ni selyle&#039;i&amp;quot;. (Two parallel usages for the comparatives seem to be possible, and equally valid: The amount-of-A is-less-than the amount-of-B in-property-C, by-amount-D, and A is-less- than B in-the-amount-of-C, by-amount-D.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael seems to like SOV (subject-object-verb constructions); very non-English but perfectly acceptable. The something1 must be an amount of some kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; was excellent, and grammatically vital. Without it, the &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; would have been attached to the relative clause bridi, involving &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;; this comes out like &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want because of my trip.&amp;quot;, as compared to his correct &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want, because of my trip.&amp;quot; It&#039;s in samples like these that we see how complex language is in general, and thus realize that even a simple language like Lojban requires thought in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what the intent of the &amp;quot;ze&#039;i&amp;quot; was, but any tense inflections must be before the beginning of the selbri, not in the middle of it. Note that &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; is any self-movement via a route with no origin or destination implied; it does not mean &amp;quot;travel&amp;quot; in the norma English sense. Normally, you will use &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; if you are specifically going somewhere. In this case, however, it worked well, since the tanru modifier, Mexican-territory, is a reasonable brief description of the route involved in his intended trip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems clear here that Michael thought you need an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; before a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;. You don&#039;t, and the parser thinks he had a partial sentence with no body.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) I to-you am-grateful for-the transferred address of Athelstan, who incidentally is identical to now- for-some-unspecified-time-interval far-from (Please clarify, I&#039;m confused!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A very strange SOV construction, with two sumti before and one after, not too common in any language that I know of. The relative phrase is perfectly grammatical and even vaguely understandable (I&#039;d have guessed his intent without a translation), but the semantics are all wrong. Michael wanted &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;, for a phrasal construction, and &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot; to ask the question:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. ne caze&#039;evi ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally is associated with during-an- unspecified-interval-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This could still be asking when as well as where, since there is a time and a location tag in the sumti tcita &amp;quot;caze&#039;evi&amp;quot;, so even more clear would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-an-unspecified- interval is-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these is quite the same as his English translation, which was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This might best be expressed as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati tu(pevu) xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-for-an-unspecified- interval is-at somewhere else (besides where you and I are) (which-is-a-long-distance) Is this true?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this version, the &amp;quot;pevu&amp;quot; is optional if there was a possiblilty that Michael wanted to differentiate between &amp;quot;still gone in Europe&amp;quot; from perhaps &amp;quot;still gone visiting his family in Baltimore&amp;quot;, which would be a kind of &amp;quot;still gone from your nearby presence&amp;quot;, implied by the greeting vocative. But I wouldn&#039;t be so perverse as to misinterpret him that wildly, would I? (Actually, I might. If you use strange and complex grammatical constructions and semantic usages without mastering the basic ones, I am forced to stretch my mind quite far to try to figure you out.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I, Athelstan, good-interrupt (Probably!) before my yonder_far-time-interval.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; is correctly Athelstan, though it might not be if some of my various alternates had been used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what his tanru means, and can&#039;t even guess how to correct it, except that I strongly suspect that he wanted &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; (positive connotation) instead of &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (good for ...) For his English, I would use &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot;, or actually &amp;quot;troci co benji&amp;quot;, since he clearly isn&#039;t sure he actually can get in touch with Athelstan before he leaves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final tanru is understandable after I see his English, not before. Why doesn&#039;t he use the plain equivalent of his English: &amp;quot;pu lenu mi cliva&amp;quot;. (I repeat my puzi remark about misintepreting strange usages. The burden of communicating, especially in a letter where there is no possibility of immediate questioning feedback, is TOTALLY on the speaker/writer.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another unneeded prelude to a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The next utterance is-a newish, identical- reverse, letteral-sequence. (a new palindrome)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent, almost. The following utterance is the entire chunk in the next parse, whereas Michael really wants the first sumti of the next utterance. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e&amp;quot; might work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a tricky problem in anaphora choice. Usage - or the logicians - will have to determine whether quotes in a sumti are part of that sumti. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a&amp;quot; could be misinterpreted to include the non-symmetrical quote marks (lu...li&#039;u) in such a metalinguistic reference as this, and these are not part of the palindrome (la&#039;e vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e, maybe?). Perhaps he might have simply put the palindrome in its own utterance, as he promised, and then refer back to it with &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; in the following sentence (.i is a sentence separator and is NOT part of the utterance).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(Discovery!) vagina-near_thing&amp;quot; is-more-than the-mass-of pattern-others in the property of user-ability at-least- some-cardinality-ness (Humor! I don&#039;t necessarily opine!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The palindrome is neat, grammatical and semantically correct, and presumably is a useful comment for a male on the prowl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, the rest of his sentence isn&#039;t clear at all; even with the help of his English it appears that he combined the x3 and x4 places of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I interpret &amp;quot;lei mordrata&amp;quot; to be &amp;quot;things other than palindromes in form&amp;quot;, whereas he wants &amp;quot;other palindromes&amp;quot;. I would try &amp;quot;mitmo&#039;a drata&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;same-form other-things&amp;quot;). He also may not want a mass. You are more than a mass if you are more than any part of it. (Example: someone of your height is above you when standing on the next higher step of a staircase, even though most of her/his body is below your head.) Masses are funny things that are not semantically-familar to English-speakers; be careful when playing with them. Michael wanted either &amp;quot;ro le drata&amp;quot; (more than each-of the others), or &amp;quot;piro lei drata&amp;quot; (more than all-of the-mass-of others).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Per my above comments on comparison, x1 and x2 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; are not amounts, and therefore x3 should be. This suggests &amp;quot;leni plikakne kei&amp;quot; (the amount of user-ableness), or my preference, &amp;quot;leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei&amp;quot; (the amount of the- typical-something being-innately-capable-of-using). The latter makes it clearer that it is the x2 place of &amp;quot;pilno&amp;quot; (by explicitly specifying the x1 as something else) that specifies where the palindrome goes in the leni clause. (Without clarifying, a perverse reader might think this means &amp;quot;the palindrome is more able to use something than other palindromes&amp;quot;, which is mind-bogglingly implausible as an interpretation - but certainly within bounds for Michael).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;su&#039;omei&amp;quot; is not a sumti, and if it were, would need a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; on the end of the x3 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; (as in my version in the last paragraph) to not be part of the amount. From Michael&#039;s English, &amp;quot;li su&#039;o&amp;quot; as x4 would convey his meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I presume the attitudinals on the end belong on the whole utterance. Where they are, they apply only to the final sumti. In Lojban, you either need to put the attitudinal on the front of the sentence (in this case perhaps unfortunately flagging the humor before making the joke), or putting it on an explicit &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; at the end of the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With all these comments, my version of the last two sentences would thus read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi. .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu piro lei mitmo&#039;a drata leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei li su&#039;o vau zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para. The-first-sumti pertaining-to the-next- utterance is-a new, same-reverse letter-sequence. &amp;quot;(Discovery!) Vagina-near-thing&amp;quot; is-more-than all-of the same-form other-things in-amount-of the-typical being- innately-able-to use (it) by-amount the-number at-least- some (Humor!) (I not-necessarily-opine!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In brief, (I hope!) (Observative) Supporter-ly-future success, I am Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Definitely brief. I prefer &amp;quot;ba sarji snada&amp;quot;, which is even briefer. Why clutter up a tanru with a tense that can be misinterpreted, when the tense can go in front and be clear?.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because Michael did not separate the &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot; from the preceding with an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;, it attaches to the vau, in effect making this entire sentence his closing salutation. This is not apparent in his English, but the sentiments seem appropriate to a salutation. Ironically then, his salutation is NOT brief, at least compared to what most others write.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(.i .i&#039;acai I give Michael a hard time in these analyses, but at least he keeps trying, and indeed is improving. Perhaps Michael can forgive me for not doing this kind of analysis on his ever-accumulating poetry (must be over 50 poems so far), and his several long letters (this was only a 5&amp;quot;x8&amp;quot; handwritten sheet, with interlinear translation - Michael has written several-page letters typewritten, entirely in Lojban). Keep it up, Michael (only .e&#039;ocai try some less creative constructions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Next Issue ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will be much shorter than this one, at least if we want to see a textbook this century. But I&#039;ll try to have it out well before LogFest, making a shorter-than- three-months cycle between issues. I would like to have some of your attempts at the translation project paragraphs (or tanru or sentences) before then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We expect to have more information on our new software products and their prices, and who knows, perhaps a better estimate on the textbook date.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The expected highlight will be John Cowan&#039;s &amp;quot;selma&#039;o catalog&amp;quot;, a complete listing of each of the selma&#039;o (lexemes/gramemes) with an explanation of how each is used, and LOTS of examples. This will not only be an important addition to the tools available to you as Lojban learners, it will also be a part of the Lojban dictionary - the first part of that work to be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John has given us a draft already - it will probably be longer than the rest of the issue. The text is being extensively reviewed by several people, and even more examples will be added before it is done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== NEWS RELEASE ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;8 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Contact: Robert LeChevalier (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Trademark Office Rules &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; Generic ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The U. S. Patent and Trademark Office Appeals Board ruled Tuesday that the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) is generic. The Board also ordered cancellation of a trademark registration for &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; held by The Loglan Institute, Inc. of Florida. The summary judgement ruling is a major victory for The Logical Language Group, Inc., a non-profit research group in Fairfax, Virginia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Basis for the Dispute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan is an artificial language started in 1955 by Dr. James Cooke Brown. After a June 1960 Scientific American article, the language attracted widespread interest among linguists, computer scientists, and the international language movement. Volunteers aided Brown as work on the language continued into the 1980&#039;s. Slow progress and internal disputes caused a steady fall-off of support. This trend grew when Brown claimed copyright on the language for himself and his institute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major supporters of Loglan founded the Logical Language Group (LLG) in 1987 to reverse Loglan&#039;s declining support. Separate from Brown, LLG finished a public domain version of Loglan and promoted its use. The LLG version is called Lojban, based on the word for &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; in that version of the language. Facing a loss of control over the language, Brown registered a trademark in &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; in early 1988. The trademark and copyright claims restricted the rights of long-time workers and supporters of Loglan. Many felt the claims a betrayal of earlier promises. A legal battle followed, leading to the present decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of Loglan/Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban is a written and spoken human language. Its original purpose was research in language and culture. Loglan/Lojban is simple and logical, and has an unambiguous grammar. Thus, computer scientists view Loglan/ Lojban as a likely tool for artificial intelligence research and human-computer communications. Educators believe Loglan/Lojban can be an effective tool in foreign language education. As an artificial language, Loglan/Lojban also attracts followers of the international language movement. This movement seeks a culture-free alternative to languages such as English, and promotes international communication and world peace. The Logical Language Group supports these uses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People have used Lojban in conversation for over a year; the language was completed in August 1990. Over 100 people are actively studying the language. Hundreds more await a Lojban textbook, expected later in 1991. These people live all over the world, with concentrations in Washington DC, Boston, New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Volunteers lead classes and study groups in these and other cities. LLG sells teaching materials, computer programs, and other materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of the Trademark Victory ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The trademark dispute has constrained LLG in promoting the language. Millions of readers are familiar with the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; from magazine articles and science fiction novels. Legal threats from Brown intimidated many people from committing their full support. The ruling frees these people to support Loglan/Lojban without fear of reprisal. The decision also will encourage computer researchers to invest time and money in Loglan/Lojban. Finally, this decision removes a major obstacle to resolving the underlying disputes and reuniting the Loglan effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Changes to the Published cmavo Lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;as of 25 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Some changes are contingent on approval of John Cowan&#039;s proposed grammar baseline changes.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.uibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;smiley face&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;u	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;lack/need&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;ucu&#039;i  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;presence/satisfaction&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;unai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;o	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;u	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ce&#039;i	  (MOI)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	meaning	changes	to &#039;percent&#039; as	a number; works	with si&#039;e to form percentages of&lt;br /&gt;
		  the MOI variety&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
denpa bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do&#039;e	  (DOhE)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
du	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to GOhA&lt;br /&gt;
tedu&#039;o	  (BAI*)  - djuno place	structure change; assign with meaning &amp;quot;under epistemology ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;anai	  (FAhA*) - meaning corrected to &amp;quot;not towards point&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fau	  (BAI)	- fasnu	place structure	change gives minor meaning change&lt;br /&gt;
foi	  (FOI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;end composite letteral&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
gau	  (BAI)	- meaning change due to	place structure	change of gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;with	actor/agent ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
gaunai	  (BAI*)  - &amp;quot;with passive ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
ge&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Greek alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Cyrillic to	ru&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
je&#039;o	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BY;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;Hebrew alphabet shift&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
		  was jo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
jo&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Arabic alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Hebrew to je&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
joibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;&amp;amp;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ka&#039;o	  (PA)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;imaginary i&amp;quot;; from lu&#039;o;	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;o	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to ZOI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;the foreign named&amp;quot;; foreign spelling permitted within&lt;br /&gt;
		  quotes&lt;br /&gt;
lau	  (LAU)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;punctuation mark/special symbol&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
lo&#039;a	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Lojban/Roman alphabet shift&amp;quot;; replaces nei with meaning clarification; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;a	  (UI)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the members/components of ...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to&lt;br /&gt;
		  sa&#039;enai&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- free;	old meaning moved to sa&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;o	  (PA)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the mass	with components	...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved	to ka&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
me&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;	as a digit&lt;br /&gt;
meryru&#039;u bu	(BY*)	 - assign with meaning &amp;quot;$&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;o	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;adjacent/touching&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;u	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;directly away from point&amp;quot;; was	UNK&lt;br /&gt;
nei	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
re&#039;o	  (REhO)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ri&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BAI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;happens to ...; experienced by ...&amp;quot;; lifri modal&lt;br /&gt;
ru&#039;o	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Cyrillic	alphabet shift&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sa&#039;e	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to UI;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;precisely - loosely&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to	se&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;a	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;self-sufficiency&amp;quot;; was UNK; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency - dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;dependence&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency -	dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;e	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;IPA alphabet shift&amp;quot;; from sa&#039;e; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;o	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;I know by internal experience&amp;quot; (dream, divine revelation, etc.);	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sefau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
segau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
tegau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;i	  (BAI*)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;experiencing ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
si&#039;e	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to MOI, with meaning x1 is a n-portion	of x2, where n is a number&lt;br /&gt;
slaka bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;,&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
tau	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
te&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
tei	  (TEI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;composite lerfu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ti&#039;o	  (TIhO)  - selma&#039;o change to SEI&lt;br /&gt;
to&#039;o	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;a	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;o	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
.ybu	  (BY*)	- free;	meaning	assigned to &amp;quot;.y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.y&#039;ybu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
za&#039;u	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;greater than&amp;quot; as a	digit&lt;br /&gt;
zai	  (ZAI)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
zi, za,	zu	(ZA)	 - clarify that	these are scalar distances in time only, and correspond	to lexeme VA for space-&lt;br /&gt;
		  time.	 Use ZEHA and VEhA for time and	space-time intervals&lt;br /&gt;
net 9 assigned from UNK; 11 freed to UNK&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124085</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 14 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_14_moi&amp;diff=124085"/>
		<updated>2020-08-16T08:00:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 10 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273 &lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 14 - March 1991&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1991, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Loglan/Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fund-Raising Drive Successful&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Regular In-Language Activities Started&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan Trademark Claim Cancelled&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 91 - 21-24 June 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban - A Realization of Loglan&amp;quot; (commonly called &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;), and informing the community about logical languages in general. For purposes of terminology, &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; refers to a specific version of a logical language, the generic language and associated research project having been called &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to &amp;quot;Loglan/Lojban&amp;quot; refer to both the generic language and to Lojban as a specific instance of that language. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Page count this issue: 96+8 enclosures ($10.40 North America, $12.48 elsewhere). Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 270. We now have about 600 people on our active mailing list, and 200 more awaiting textbook publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category. Balances reflect contributions received thru 13 March 1991. Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level R - This is a Review Copy for Publications&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 0 - le lojbo karni - $4 initially + $5/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 1 - Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $20 initially + $20/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 2 - Level 1 materials and baselined products - $25 initially + $25/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Level 3 - Level 2 materials and lesson materials - $50 initially + $40/year balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed of changes in your mailing address, and US subscribers are asked to provide ZIP+4 codes whenever you know them. (We now have to!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We skipped one quarterly issue cycle, but have now resumed our activities. This longer than average issue should help make up for the long wait.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue reports on the news of the last 6 months. In addition, we briefly survey the &#039;areas of interest&#039; that are listed on our registration form, so that you can see the scope of Lojban activities, and the potential in each area. We then move from this general discussion into the specific topic of Lojban and linguistics, with which the bulk of this issue deals. (Please pardon the occasional jargon therein - some contributors were writing for a different audience. We&#039;ve tried to elaborate on the jargon where it seemed necessary for understanding. The lead article on this topic is John Cowan&#039;s response to the 1969 critical review of Loglan written by linguist Dr. Arnold Zwicky; that review was never responded to by Dr. Brown, to the detriment of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s acceptance in the linguistics community. We also include edited transcripts of some computer network discussions regarding Lojban, Esperanto, and linguistics, and a brief description of Lojban written for linguists (as opposed to our brochure discussion for laymen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, we print some of your letters, with responses. Thanks to all of you for your continued interest and support. Included are final words for now on the subject of Esperanto and Lojban, including a more scholarly discussion on &#039;rule-counting&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier continues his regular &#039;column&#039; written directly in Lojban, and without translation. All subscribers should have all the materials needed to read this text. We also have other texts of various levels of difficulty, including a simple and familiar fairy tale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --3&lt;br /&gt;
  Using	the Language					       --5&lt;br /&gt;
  Language Development Activities			       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status, Prices, and Ordering			       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Publicity						      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News					      --13&lt;br /&gt;
  News From the	Institute - Trademark Cancellation	      --14&lt;br /&gt;
A Survey of Lojban Applications				      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review	of Loglan 1	      --21&lt;br /&gt;
A First	Cut at a Linguistic Description	of Lojban	      --29&lt;br /&gt;
Computer Network Discussions on	Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...)	  --30&lt;br /&gt;
   including Lojban gismu Etymologies			      --60&lt;br /&gt;
Proposed Lojban	Machine	Grammar	Baseline Changes	      --67&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow    --70&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska - some comparative artificial	linguistics, a story, and more	--76&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			      --88&lt;br /&gt;
The Recent Press Release			  --Back Page (96)&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - cmavo change list,	Lojban Grammar in E-BNF	form&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Via Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at: lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can also join the Lojban news-group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your mailing address to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send traffic for the news-group to: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve mail facility. Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period: nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
FIDOnet subscribers can also participate, although the connection is not especially robust. Write to us for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve or Usenet/Internet address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice- President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Nora&#039; - Nora LeChevalier - Secretary/Treasurer of la lojbangirz., Bob&#039;s wife, author of LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Dr. Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;The Institute&#039;, &#039;TLI&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Loglan&#039; - This refers to the generic language or language project, of which &#039;Lojban&#039; is the most successful version, and Institute Loglan another. &#039;Loglan/Lojban&#039; is used in discussions about Lojban where we wish to make it particularly clear that the statement applies to the generic language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As most of you know, we sent out a fund-raising letter in November to all US, Canada, and Mexico subscribers, requesting that people contribute against their voluntary balance, or to donate extra money if their balance was positive. Our finances after JL13 had reached a crisis state, and action needed to be taken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to thank those of you who responded to our fund-raising letter. We received over 100 contributions in response to that letter in 6 weeks, more than twice the number of letters we usually receive in 3 months in response to a JL issue. Clearly, you prefer to be bugged about finances in a direct letter rather in the pages of this issue. $3500 in contributions was received in November and December, and small amounts continue to trickle in. Of that money, most was payments against voluntary balances, but over $1000 of it was in donations. (We have sent out summary notices for tax purposes acknowledging all donations received during 1990. If you believe that you made a donation and did not get a receipt, please let us know.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A secondary goal of the mailing was to identify people who were not reading our publications, and who wished to be dropped to a lower level of mailing, or who wished to be dropped entirely until at least after the textbook is published. Some 25 of the respondents requested such a drop in level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A tertiary goal of the mailing was to identify as many as possible incorrect addresses. Our normal 3rd class bulk mailing has a label requesting forwarding, and guaranteeing forwarding postage. However, such notices are often ignored by the post office, which treats bulk mailings as being of the lowest priority. Moral: if you want to keep getting material from us, make sure we get a change of address from you when you move - don&#039;t rely on the post office to tell us. To our first class mailing, we received over 35 such notices of incorrect addresses, many of which also had no for- warding notice on file with the post office.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All in all the letter was a big success, much better than we had hoped for in response to our plea, especially given a recession in the economy and the distractions of world events. We finished the year with over $4000 in the bank, and are no longer living from week to week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We aren&#039;t out of the woods yet, of course. While we have $4000 in the bank, voluntary balances total $4500. So we still technically owe more than we have. In addition, legal bills, which Jeff Prothero and Bob have committed to paying, constitute a recorded liability on our accounts of some $6000, making our net worth substantially negative. And we still need to accumulate $5000-$10000 for publication of the Lojban textbook. So don&#039;t hold back just because we&#039;re not on the point of bankruptcy anymore. Still, you can rest assured that we are in business for a while to come, and if you continue to respond when we are really in need, you can count on la lojbangirz. being around to support your Loglan/Lojban interests and efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have a head start on finances this year. Sylvia Rutiser has pledged a donation of at least $1000 in support of la lojbangirz. for the coming year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a summary of the la lojbangirz. financial report for 1990. This report has not yet been finalized and approved by the Board of Directors.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						 1990 Financial	Report&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
					      1990		  1989&lt;br /&gt;
Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contributions/Deferred Reimbursements	  $8523.37	      $8037.88&lt;br /&gt;
Donations				  $6164.90	      $7633.40&lt;br /&gt;
					  ________	      ________&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Net Income				 $14688.27	     $15671.28&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Printing and Publications		  $3892.76	      $5643.92&lt;br /&gt;
Non-administrative Postage		  $1001.85	      $1903.91&lt;br /&gt;
Virginia Sales Tax Collections		    $34.02		$40.32&lt;br /&gt;
Royalties				    $60.00		$50.00&lt;br /&gt;
Office Supplies				   $434.86	       $494.13&lt;br /&gt;
Software				     $0.00	       $102.41&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest/LogFair				   $957.87	       $394.11&lt;br /&gt;
Advertising/Publicity/Conventions	    $39.70	      $1602.90&lt;br /&gt;
Telephone				  $1180.62	      $1239.53&lt;br /&gt;
Administrative Expenses	     $228.19		     $518.71&lt;br /&gt;
Legal Expenses		    $3082.00		    $4099.68&lt;br /&gt;
			    ________		    ________&lt;br /&gt;
			    $3310.19	  $3310.19  $4618.39  $4618.39&lt;br /&gt;
				 30%	  ________	 29%   _______&lt;br /&gt;
Net Expenses				 $11052.68	     $16089.62&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Net Gain/Loss				  $3635.59	      (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Assets&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Cash in bank account				 $4276.02&lt;br /&gt;
     Undeposited checks					  $109.49&lt;br /&gt;
     Estimated Value of	Inventory			  $703.30&lt;br /&gt;
							 ________&lt;br /&gt;
     Net Assets						 $5089.51&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     Subscriber	Voluntary Balances Refundable&lt;br /&gt;
	  (See Attachment B)			       ($4550.36)&lt;br /&gt;
     Unpaid Legal Fees				       ($6360.00)&lt;br /&gt;
     VA	State Sales Tax	Collections			 ($12.83)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The most significant component of our huge drop in net worth is the unfunded legal liability. Jeff Prothero and Bob LeChevalier have committed to funding this liability in full. At our current expenditure rate, this will take about 2 years to pay off. With the February 1991 trademark ruling in our favor, additional legal fees are expected to be minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscription Accounts as of 1 January 1991 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 735 accounts. Of these, 544 were currently active (level 0 or above). Known readership is about 50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single sub- scriptions. (The number has grown by over 35 in the first 6 weeks of 1991.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 45-60% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Only 15% of the level 0 recipients have positive balances. This is not sufficient for long term financial security; donations do not make up the difference and no extra money is left over for non-subscription activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 14 February, there were 92 subscribers at level 3, 100 at level 2, 55 at level 1, 332 at level 0, and 191 at level B for a total of 770. About 20% of our subscribers are non-U.S., with about 1/2 of these in Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
gismu lists		 601				   &lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash	 133				   &lt;br /&gt;
flash cards		  30				   &lt;br /&gt;
Lessons	beyond Lesson 1	 127				   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
83 persons have donated a total of $13976.31 since incorporation (32/$7842.15 incorporation through end of 1989; 36/$5093.63 from before incorporation); 46 donors donated during 1990, including $1529 each from Bob &amp;amp; Nora and from Jeff Prothero that was applied to legal fees; others donated a net of $3106.94.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
157 persons have net positive voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
542 persons have net negative voluntary balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All others have 0 balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13 people have balances &amp;gt;$100, 40 have balances &amp;gt;$50, 89 have balances &amp;gt;$20. These are the people who are keeping us afloat. We need a much higher percentage of you in these categories.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s proposed budget for 1991 (not yet approved by the Directors) presumes balance contributions of about $13400, legal donations of $6600 from Bob and Nora and Jeff Prothero, $4800 in donations from the rest of you, and expenses of around $25600, for a net loss of $729. To meet this budget, we need as many as possible of you to pay your share (as appropriate for your mailing level); otherwise we will repeat last year&#039;s financial crisis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Using the Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While we have been laying low for 6 months, husbanding our money carefully, the language has been progressing in several directions. This section discusses progress in making Loglan/Lojban a living language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Conversation sessions - After several delays while we tried to find an optimal meeting day, Lojbanists in the Washington DC area have now started a weekly Lojban conversation/learning session. A group of 6 Lojbanists of varying skill levels has been meeting on Tuesday evenings at Bob and Nora&#039;s house to use the language. These 6 are Bob and Nora, Athelstan, Sylvia Rutiser, Darren Stalder, and Keith Lynch. Others have inquired and are expected to join within the next few weeks; if you are in or visiting the DC area and want to drop in, contact Bob at 703-385- 0273. You needn&#039;t be especially skilled in the language; none of the rest of us are, either. From the experience thus far, it is useful to know as much vocabulary as possible. You&#039;ll pick up the grammar easily (sentence complexity tends to be fairly simple), but a novice will spend most of the time hunting through words lists in order to follow what is being said. (On the other hand, Keith, who is a relative novice, says that he has learned some words quickly simply by looking them up over and over.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The emphasis during the sessions is on actual Lojban conversation, and no English is spoken for about 2 hours (8-10PM). Before and after the 2-hour sessions, there are discussions of translation, grammar questions, and other things better handled in English. We are hoping to eventually start regularly offering a mini-lesson for new Lojbanists during the hour before the Lojban session.&lt;br /&gt;
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Letter exchanges - Sylvia has been working on one other aspect of bringing Lojban to life. She has written to two Lojbanists who have written to us in Lojban, and is working on letters to a couple of others. (If you write a letter to us in Lojban, and include a translation so we can figure out any errors, you WILL get an answer, though we can&#039;t promise how quickly.) Michael Helsem has written a (complicated) letter on Lojban and poetry to Athelstan, as well as several to Bob, and Athelstan is working on an answer. Bob doesn&#039;t have time to respond to Lojban letters personally (except for really short ones), and passes them to Sylvia, who wants the practice. Of course, if she writes to you, please respond reasonably quickly so that she knows whether you understood any of her writing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Translations and writings - As shown in this issue, there have also been several people working on writings and translations of various length and complexity. In addition, Jamie Bechtel has translated an Ursula Leguin short story, which we plan to publish after getting a copy- right release from the author. Bob has also intermittently worked on a translation of the first chapter of Heinlein&#039;s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but this also needs a copyright release. He is also working on the initial story of Burton&#039;s Arabian Nights (the Scheherazade story), which is both not copyrighted and written in the style of the original Arabic, giving us a flavor of translation other than from English. (It is obviously preferable to translate things that are not copyrighted, or that the copyright has expired. Sherlock Holmes or Lewis Carroll, anyone?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Carter translation - One translation project that has been started, albeit slowly, is the attempt to update two stories by Jim Carter, originally written in 1984 in an earlier version of Loglan, to fit the current language. These are full-fledged short stories, not just sentences or paragraphs, and are quite a bit longer than even the Saki short story translation published in JL10. The first being worked on is called &#039;Akira&#039;, and is a science fiction story; the other is called &#039;The Welding Shop&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are trying to involve as many people as possible in this effort, each taking a sentence or a paragraph, or even a couple of tanru. Since the vocabulary has changed so considerably since 1984, and Jim Brown&#039;s versions of the language have had so many defective tanru, volunteers can work on problems as small as a single word. For example, in Sylvia Rutiser&#039;s translation of the first paragraph of the Akira story, printed later in this issue, she was quite dissatisfied with the tanru she devised for &#039;to fall by parachute&#039;. We welcome all suggestions for this concept, and any others in that paragraph. We also pose another paragraph for translation, which we ask all of you to work on, again even if only a word or two. Sylvia will compile the results for next issue. As more people become skilled in the language, we can pass out larger chunks of the text.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFair - We had a get-together at Bob and Nora&#039;s house, the last weekend in October. Turnout was small, and the discussion ranged over a wide area of topics. A smaller version of LogFest, we hope to hold future LogFairs at other locations besides the Washington DC area.&lt;br /&gt;
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Logfest 91 - The annual meeting of la lojbangirz., and the associated celebration of Lojban, will be held a week later this year than in previous years, on the weekend of 22-23 June 1991, at Bob and Nora&#039;s house in the suburban Washington DC area. (We officially start on Friday night and end on Monday morning, but those two days tend to be primarily social.) The schedule change allows us to miss several competing activities that have prevented people from coming in the past. If you are planning to come and do not know how to get here, contact us by letter or phone at the address or phone given for la lojbangirz. (day or evenings); we are on a major rapid transit line and thus easily accessible to all modes of transportation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The major design decisions about the language having been made before now, we are hoping to shift the emphasis of our gathering from language design to language use and application. There will thus be sessions on teaching and learning the language, including demonstrations of our teaching materials, Lojban conversation for novices as well as for more advanced students, group efforts at Lojban translation, etc. There also may be discussion of specific Lojban applications. There will be a limited amount of preplanned programming; call us the week before the gathering to find out details. On the other hand, most activities will be ad-hoc, determined by the interests of those present at any given time.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can come for one day or the entire weekend; families are welcome. Most attendees who spend the entire weekend, bring sleeping bags or borrow blankets; we have plenty of floor space. Especially if coming from out-of-town, we recommend letting us know in advance that you are coming, how many, and when you expect to arrive and leave, so we can plan logistics; drop-ins are of course welcome, though. Based on previous years expenses, we ask for a voluntary donation of around $30 per person for the whole weekend to cover food, beverages, etc. Many give more, a few come who cannot contribute. (Money contributed on this weekend, unless specifically noted, is considered a donation towards LogFest expenses, and does not apply to voluntary bal- ances.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope to see as many Lojbanists as possible at our activities this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Language Development Activities ===&lt;br /&gt;
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A lot of work has been done in the area of language development, much of it by John Cowan, who in only several months has become the principal expert on the formal grammar (thus relieving Bob of a major burden).&lt;br /&gt;
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Grammar baseline changes and BNF development - As reported in last issue, John aided in the final push for a grammar baseline, devising new designs for MEX (the grammar of mathematical expressions), the tense grammar, and the method of expressing letters and symbols. We did an awful lot of work in only a few weeks, and unfortunately, not all of it was perfect. John has found a few mistakes in further analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over the 6 months since the baseline, John has effectively done a complete analysis of the grammar, almost from scratch. He did this by developing an alternative way of describing the grammar, using a method called Extended Backus-Naur Form (E-BNF). Unlike the YACC form of the grammar (YACC is a tool for developing computer languages), published last issue, the E-BNF form is condensed and considerably easier to understand. John&#039;s BNF grammar, enclosed with this issue, requires only 4 pages of standard type. The E-BNF grammar is similar to the baseline machine grammar, including some minor proposals as described below.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem with an E-BNF grammar is that it cannot be verified as unambiguous using YACC. This required a lot of checking and cross-checking. In the process of doing this, every rule of the grammar had to be examined. Some things showed up as problems:&lt;br /&gt;
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* errors made in the last minute push for a baseline, sometimes only typos, other times rules that were accidentally deleted;&lt;br /&gt;
* asymmetries between similar structures in the grammar, such as differing priority for logical connectives in compound bridi as compared to other logical connective structures;&lt;br /&gt;
* rules that were clumsily constructed, often as fossils of earlier versions of the grammar when they were necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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John also volunteered to work on a Lojban parser, and in thinking about the parser design, proposed some minor changes that would make the design easier.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of all of this analysis, John has proposed 19 changes to the baseline grammar, of which 3 were withdrawn after discussion. The 16 that remain may sound like a lot, but each is very minor, often affecting only 1 or 2 rules of the roughly 600 in the YACC grammar baseline. Even this overstates the effect on the average Lojban student&#039;s learning effort. Most of the changes are additions or enhancements to the language, and I doubt if any of the grammar changes proposed affect any text that has been written thus far in the language. Thus, the language can be considered quite stable, though clearly the grammar is not quite as mature as the gismu list, now baselined for 2 1/2 years.&lt;br /&gt;
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The changes are described along with their purpose and justification in an article below. The principal design group has looked over these changes and accepted them, but publication of the proposals is a necessary step for a baseline change. Thus you have an opportunity to comment or ask questions about these changes, prior to a formal approval decision, expected at or before LogFest. Anyone who has worked in depth with the grammar, and wants to see the specific rule changes proposed, may write or send a computer-mail message to us, and we&#039;ll be happy to provide it.&lt;br /&gt;
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There may be additional changes at this very low level up until the completion of the textbook and dictionary. These will be as a result of actual usage or problems discovered as a result of finally having a parser incorporating the complete set of rules. However, you shouldn&#039;t get the idea that the language is unstable because of these changes, requiring a significant effort at relearning, since they will almost certainly be changes in seldom-used features of the language. Ju&#039;i Lobypli will continue to publish such proposals as they are presented and preliminarily approved.&lt;br /&gt;
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cmavo list - As part of John Cowan&#039;s review, a couple of lexemes (word grammatical categories) have been eliminated, and the associated cmavo freed. (As a side note, we will be trying to phase out use of the word &#039;lexeme&#039; for these categories, in favor of the Lojban word &amp;quot;selma&#039;o&amp;quot;, (from se cmavo) or cmavo word category. &#039;Lexeme&#039;, used by Jim Brown and adopted by everyone else, turns out to be an incorrect linguistic term for the concept - the appropriate term is really &#039;grameme&#039;. But since few people know these jargon terms anyway, we would rather use the non-jargon Lojban word.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of two place structure changes, we had to make some minor changes to associated gismu in selma&#039;o BAI, and to add one new cmavo to that selma&#039;o. A couple of additional words were independently proposed, for various reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since the cmavo list has NOT been baselined, the changes listed later in this issue are approved and now in force (although some of them are technically dependent on approval of the grammar baseline change). We provide the list on a separate page for people who wish to attach it to their cmavo lists. Alternatively (and probably preferably), you can manually update your copy of the cmavo lists to reflect these changes. No new publication of the cmavo list is expected prior to a preliminary baseline about 6 months before the dictionary is done. John Cowan is working on a catalog describing each selma&#039;o and its grammar, with examples of each usage; this will not be done for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lack of gismu-making - There were 20 gismu approved or proposed for making at last LogFest. We had commitments from several people to help with the source language look- up. Unfortunately, some of these people failed to come through. As a result, we have only partial input on Hindi source words and no input at all on Arabic sources. The other source language research has been ready for months. We are pursuing other alternate researchers, and ask any members of the community who know either language to volunteer your assistance either to suggest source words or check others work. (You should have a bilingual dictionary if you are not fluent in the language.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Because of this, the words have not been constructed, and we have downgraded the priority of producing a revised gismu list incorporating the new words and updated and clarified place structures for each word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Place structure review - In conjunction with the addition of words to the gismu list, we have been conducting a slow review of the place structure of every word in the gismu list. The review includes updates of Roget&#039;s Thesaurus categories for each word; Athelstan did a rough-cut at as- signing these categories while we were reviewing the list for baseline over 2 years ago. An effort is being made to ensure that place structures are consistent for words in the same Roget category.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can hardly imagine the difficulty of this review; it takes total mastery of the gismu list to do a comprehensive check, and only Bob has achieved that. Others are reviewing pieces of the list, and Bob is checking their suggestions. (All readers are encouraged to pose questions and suggestions about place structures, and these will be considered.) Of course Bob&#039;s higher priority is textbook writing, but the review must be completed before the textbook is done, since we don&#039;t want to have examples with inconsistent place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that place structures will be a long-evolving part of the language, and will not even be considered baselined at dictionary publication (though publication of a dictionary will inherently make changes much more difficult). This is because the place structures implicitly contain the meaning of the words, meanings that will never be static, and cannot truly be defined until there are significant numbers of language users.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, none of us who are speaking, writing, or translating in Lojban have been significantly hindered by nebulous place structures. We make the best guess we can, and use paraphrases if a listener doesn&#039;t understand, thus bypassing any confusion.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, we have demonstrated what we have often claimed, YOU DO NOT NEED TO MEMORIZE THE PLACE STRUCTURES TO USE LOJBAN. As you use the language, you will master them practically by osmosis, making mistakes and then learning from them. But mistakes are useful, too; they help us define the weak points in the place structures, and in some cases indicate that normal usage of a word differs from the place structure that we devised.&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu making errors of the past - As a side project, late at night or when he can&#039;t concentrate (seemingly much too often it seems), Bob has been going back through the computer outputs that generated the gismu 3 years ago, an extracting the scores and etymologies that led to the current word being chosen. The project is roughly half done.&lt;br /&gt;
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Along the way, unfortunate discoveries have occurred. In about 5% of the words, some type of manual error was made in the rush to compile the list. In half of these or so, the error is insignificant: an erroneous score or cross- reference error. In the rest, often due to Bob&#039;s sloppy handwriting or typos, the word recorded for a concept was not the highest scoring one. In most cases, the word actually selected differs by only one character from what it should be, but given the nature of the scoring algorithm, this sometimes leads to a significantly lower recognition score.&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, we screwed up sometimes. The result is not a severe problem, and changing the words wasn&#039;t even considered - the actual etymologies of individual words is simply not that important to any of Loglan&#039;s goals. The only requirement is for neutrality. Since the errors are small in number and fairly random, the only effect is a trivial increase in learning difficulty. And this increase is real only if the recognition scores used to decide on the words actually do correlate with learnability of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
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A more systematic error was found in our Lojban transcription of Russian words. Though the check has only been cursory, it appears that in several cases, we made mistakes in Lojbanizing the Russian vowels, which frequently change in sound depending on the declension, and on the syllable stress. As a result, the Russian con- tribution to some words will be incorrect, and learning for Russian students of Lojban presumably slightly more difficult. Again, though, the effect is not expected to be significant, and we have data that will allow us to accurately measure the effect, if any of this systematic error. (Lojbanization of Russian words inherently has systematic errors due to declensions that shift and sometimes omit sounds.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Once the computer lists have been verified, we will make the etymologies available in hard copy or electronic form. Data is being stored in Lojbanized phonetic spelling. We do not plan in the short term to publish a list showing the actual source words, primarily because we would need special text fonts and alphabets on our computers. However, a sample of the intermediate work appears in a later article this issue. This effort is a low priority one, though how much time we spend on it will partly depend on how much interest is shown by you readers.&lt;br /&gt;
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Computer Network Discussions - There have been numerous discussions of Lojban&#039;s design on the lojban-list computer mailing network, which now has over 100 readers. These are generally highly specialized discussions, and often rather long-winded, so we cannot even hope to summarize them here. Two major topics in the last couple of months have been the expression of intervals, the possible need for special tenses to describe relativistic situations, and the desire by some readers for a formal theory describing the seman- tics of the language. Discussions on these topics continue, and we are archiving everything that is said. If you have particular interest in one of these topics, let us know, and we may discuss it in more detail, or offer a special-order publication consisting of transcripts of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products Status, Prices, and Ordering ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no new products to announce this issue, although significant progress was made on several that will hopefully come to fruition within the next several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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A reminder that our pricing policy includes a 20% discount for a prepaid order over $20 (prepaid = positive balance exceeding the price at the time of shipment). There is a 20% surcharge for non-North-American orders; the 20% discount on large prepaid orders will cancel the overseas surcharge. The overseas surcharge may have to rise due to increased postal fees, but not until at least next issue. Virginia orders should add 4.5% sales tax. Note also that for software, there is no surcharge for MS- DOS 3 1/2&amp;quot; diskettes, but you must specify in your order if you want them.&lt;br /&gt;
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We cannot promise to fill an order unless it is prepaid; our finances remain too thin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook - One effort that has not made much progress has been the Lojban textbook. About 45 pages were done by LogFair in late October, but almost no work has been done since then. There are a lot of reasons for this, but in the final analysis Bob simply hasn&#039;t managed to treat this effort as the highest priority, as he and everyone else want. Too many short-term distractions and emergencies. If blame must be placed, most of us have some part in the delay; the final responsibility is, however, Bob&#039;s. Hopefully, things are improving in this regard.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFlash - The news on LogFlash is a good as the news on the textbook is bad. A version of LogFlash capable of handling the August cmavo list turned out to be almost trivial to produce. (This version is currently called LogFlash 3, but the set may be renumbered before publication). Bob has gone through all of the words using this program and is working in Maintenance mode at mastering the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile Nora has been working on the enhanced revision to LogFlash, which will handle the updated gismu list (with 100 character definitions instead of 40 character ones), and add a wide variety of new features, described in previ- ous issues. The program will also provide the capability to log data needed for research into the language learning process, including a test of Jim Brown&#039;s recognition score algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora&#039;s update is mostly complete, and the program is being tested by a couple of Lojban students, most notably Sylvia Rutiser, who has gone through the gismu list in only a few weeks and is working on her second pass.&lt;br /&gt;
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The changes to support cmavo list learning with the new version are just as easy as for the old version, and Sylvia is also nearly through her first pass on the cmavo using this program. The results of using LogFlash have proven awesome when we sit down on Tuesday evenings to speak in the language. Bob and Sylvia only rarely need to look at a word list, while those who haven&#039;t studied the words spend a lot of time paging through the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope to have gismu list and cmavo list versions of LogFlash available by LogFest in June, or perhaps the next Ju&#039;i Lobypli issue thereafter. A rafsi list version will probably wait an additional few months; we have yet to receive any reports that anyone besides Bob and Nora have started studying the rafsi using the existing LogFlash 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of these updates are for PC-compatible MS-DOS machines. Dave Cortesi is working on an update to his Hypercard program equivalent for the MacIntosh; we have had no discussions with Richard Kennaway regarding an update to his MacIntosh version, since the Hypercard version, while a bit slower in execution speed, uses the Mac voice synthesizer function to provide spoken Lojban along with the flash cards. We expect Dave&#039;s program to be available at approximately the same time as the PC LogFlash version.&lt;br /&gt;
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Efforts to produce a UNIX C version of LogFlash appear to have stalled out, and given the closeness of the new PC version will likely be delayed until after it is complete. We get lots of volunteers to make this conversion (for UNIX and other machines), but few if any have ever produced anything. The new program is over 4000 lines of code and is non-trivial to convert. We are thus not planning to distribute the LogFlash source. Conversion volunteers should know both Turbo-Pascal and C and the problems in converting from the former to the latter. There is a lot of input/output processing, and the last (and most successful) conversion effort stalled out on con- verting this processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Parser - As noted above, John Cowan has started working on a Lojban parser which will reflect the baseline grammar. This much-awaited software will finally allow us to do the proper test of the grammar that is needed, as well as provide an excellent teaching tool to students of the lan- guage with appropriate computers. John expects to have the parser available for testing by LogFest in June. Priority for test copies will be for people with highly positive balances and those who have actually been writing in the language. General distribution will of course depend on how testing goes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Software - The random sentence generator update has been held up pending John Cowan&#039;s grammar change proposals, discussed elsewhere in this issue. David Bowen reports a simple equivalent program using the UNIX-based AWK language; write to us for details if interested. There have been no changes to the lujvo-making program, which may be integrated with the future version of LogFlash 2 (rafsi- teaching).&lt;br /&gt;
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Software Pricing - Software is the only product la lojbangirz. produces right now that we make any significant profit on. Thus, we need significant sales of these items to help cover all the people who aren&#039;t paying for our pro- ducts. Indeed, our financial troubles last year were no doubt in part due to very low software sales and our lack of new products in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
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Because of our financial situation, we cannot distribute our software for free. If we get more of you to pay for the printed matter, we can reconsider this, but no change is likely until well after textbook publication. We may continue to offer the old software more liberally, recognizing that it will be obsolete and much inferior to the new version. This will allow us to support those who can&#039;t afford to pay but want to learn the language, while providing significant value to our paying customers. Exceptions, if any, will be for people who perform volunteer efforts valuable enough that someone else donates money to cover the cost of their copy, or who demonstrate by trying to use the language that our support of their use of LogFlash will bring results.&lt;br /&gt;
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When the new versions of the program come out, there will be a substantial discount (at least 50%) for upgrades from people who have the program and a positive balance. People who have contributed money but do not have a positive bal- ance may receive a lesser discount. As always, prepaid orders over $20 will gain a 20% discount.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comments on this policy are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
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(Note that old versions of LogFlash are still available as Shareware on the Amrad BBS - see the introductory brochure for the telephone number. We would of course prefer that you register and pay for this software, getting the latest version, but have no complaint if those who cannot pay obtain the program in this way. We will pro- bably continue to offer a less-advanced Shareware version of LogFlash for the indefinite future, since the principle of mass distribution of language information is a fundamental one for la lojbangirz.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Postal Rates - The recent increase in US Postal Rates was between 15 and 20%. This amounts to 1-2 cents/page added to our production costs. This renders our temporary price increase of last summer necessarily permanent - it is not yet clear whether we are selling materials for more than we pay for them. If not, you can expect a price rise next issue, probably to 12 cents/page US/Canada and 15 cents/page overseas; we&#039;ll continue to absorb the slight difference between US and Canadian postage costs.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are considering going to second-class mailing for Ju&#039;i Lobypli and/or le lojbo karni, though possibly not for a few months. For a relatively small cost difference, we would get better speed of delivery and more assurance that you will actually get the issue. Mailing in the same class as junk mail is risky.&lt;br /&gt;
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One requirement of second-class mailing is demonstration that most of our readership actually wants to receive the publication. The best way to prove this is with paid subscriptions, with explicit letters also valuable. Thus it is important that we hear from you regularly, preferably with money; at least once per year is very desirable.&lt;br /&gt;
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9-digit Zip - The new rates also come with new rules, though we aren&#039;t yet certain just what these rules are. It is possible that we will need to use Zip+4 9-digit codes on our US mailings to get optimal postage rates, and possibly even to get assured delivery. Thus, whenever you send us a change of address, please tell us the Zip+4 number as soon as you know it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rhyming Dictionaries - Michael Helsem announces availability of Lojban gismu rhyming dictionaries for prospective poets. Price $5 ea. Specify normal or half- rhyme versions. Send to Michael Helsem, 1031 DeWitt Circle Dallas TX 75224.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Logo - Surprisingly to me at least, there was a clear winner in the logo balloting from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #13. The selected logo was supposed to be on this issue; maybe next time. The winner, designed by Guy Garnett, received a large majority of positive votes among the 35-40 ballots received before the October deadline, and was first choice on many of them. In fact, only 5 ballots were marked as disliking the selection. Of these 5, 3 were in favor of the 2nd place finisher (a distant 2nd, but with far more &#039;likes&#039; than &#039;dislikes&#039;). This 2nd place logo, the in- tersecting planes design by Jamie Bechtel, apparently suffered some vote loss from being hand-drawn compared to Guy&#039;s polished computer-generated images. (Almost all negative votes on this design also voted against all other hand-drawn designs.) As a result, we intend to try this design on some publications as well, after computerizing it, and see what people think. Thus we have two logos, which were opposed by only 2 people among the voters.&lt;br /&gt;
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A couple of people sent in new designs after the ballot was produced, and I unfortunately missed one by Kerry Pearson in preparing the ballot. But we needed to have a final decision, and these will be the logos for at least the next few years.&lt;br /&gt;
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A few people voted for none of the selections, indicating a misunderstanding of the purpose of the logo &#039;contest&#039;. These people identified &amp;quot;logos&amp;quot; with commercialism, and wanted us to have a less commercial image. A couple suggested that instead we devise a &amp;quot;logo&amp;quot; that was more of a slogan, perhaps graphically displayed. This isn&#039;t practical for a few reasons:&lt;br /&gt;
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* the logo is intended to be a symbol and graphic images make better symbols than text, however it is displayed. &amp;quot;Logo&amp;quot; is a shortening of &amp;quot;logograph&amp;quot;, which more clearly indicates its purpose;&lt;br /&gt;
* among other places, the logo will probably be used on the textbook, where there will already be plenty of text (the title, subtitle, and the &#039;blurb on the back&#039;). The purpose of the logo is to leave a strong image that stands out against all that writing;&lt;br /&gt;
* there is a commercial purpose to the logo. It is a symbol for la lojbangirz. as well as, and possibly more than, for the language (this unfortunately may not have been in the minds of the designers and voters, but, oh well). While we are a non-profit organization, we must operate as a business, sending out correspondence, fund- raising letters, etc. The logo, printed by computer with our letterhead, will enhance the visual appearance of our business correspondence, calling attention to our letter. (At least this is how the theory goes.)&lt;br /&gt;
* a slogan in any language other than Lojban (such as English) would suggest a bias toward that language, and we are fighting hard to avoid such biases. If the text were in Lojban, non-Lojbanists (and some inactive supporters) wouldn&#039;t know what it means, making it a less meaningful symbol than the words might intend;&lt;br /&gt;
* we already have a Lojban slogan of a sort. Claude Van Horne coined &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot; a couple of years ago, and we have produced and distributed calligraphic buttons with that slogan as well as used it on many of our publications. We are of course interested in more Lojban slogans and aphorisms, but this requires you to make them up, and the issue is any case separate from the logo issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Electronic Distribution - We have had a committee non- working on a policy for electronic distribution of our materials since LogFest. For various reasons, the committee pretty much fell apart within a couple of weeks, and efforts to get the effort going again have so far been to no avail. Athelstan did write up his mini-lesson, which will be a centerpiece of the electronic material to be distributed; we hope this will be finalized for publication with JL15. Thereafter, all non-paying people above level 0 will have to demonstrate their interest by attempting to complete the exercises in the mini-lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
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There has been considerable debate about the extent of things to be distributed. Ju&#039;i Lobypli issues and the textbook are nearly impossible to put on-line, even with a file server, because so much of the text is formatted and relies on greater than 80-column lines. This issue, for example, is over 400K bytes of data. We are also reluctant to post non-baselined language description materials since we have no way to ensure that people eventually get updates when the baseline occurs. Word lists, the machine grammar, the brochure, and Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson are likely to be available initially. I won&#039;t promise a date for an electronic package because it is pretty much out of my hands as long as the committee exists; it is likely that the package will be available after LogFest in late June.&lt;br /&gt;
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Computer Network - With help from John Cowan and Keith Lynch and Eric Raymond (who supports lojban-list and John&#039;s and Bob&#039;s computer accounts), Lojban has been highly visible on the UNIX-oriented Usenet/Internet computer network, providing us with worldwide communications with our supporters, and highly successful recruiting. We have been especially visible in an electronic news/discussion group called &amp;quot;sci.lang&amp;quot;, which is a major focus for linguistics professionals, researchers, and students, worldwide. In particular, Lojban has come up as the principal topic of discussion during two periods of several weeks during the last 6 months. (Discussions in these groups tend to flow from topic to topic forming a highly intertwined set of &#039;threads of discussion&#039;, which eventually fade out as people turn to new topics that have caught their attention. Thus, Lojban has been mentioned several times in connection with several topics, but the &#039;thread&#039; caught people&#039;s attention twice in particular.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first instance, Lojban (and Loglan in general) came up as a result of a discussion of the Sapir-Whorf Hy- pothesis. John Cowan stepped into the discussion, and then Bob &#039;weighed in&#039; in response to some fairly critical challenges from linguists. Much to our pleasure, Lojban withstood this first challenge from the linguistic academic community, gaining respect from several people and a will- ingness on their part to see how the project develops scientifically.&lt;br /&gt;
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Given the disastrous history of Loglan&#039;s relationship with the academic community, this was welcome indeed. While attracting interest from several linguistic academics in the 1960&#039;s, the first publication of Loglan 1 drew a critical review from Professor Arnold Zwicky, in a 1969 is- sue of Language, one of the foremost linguistics journals. While this review was a friendly, constructive critique (this intent was confirmed in a recent letter exchange between Bob and Dr. Zwicky, now a leader in the field of language typology), Dr. Brown apparently took its challenges as highly negative.&lt;br /&gt;
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For whatever reason, the review went unanswered, and Loglan has suffered for 20 years as a result. The Institute&#039;s attempts to get funding from the National Science Foundation were rejected, with several peer reviewers citing the unanswered critique. Dr. Brown eventually gave up on the academic community and tried to &amp;quot;go commercial&amp;quot;, a disaster that led in turn to the financial and political quagmire that nearly killed Loglan in the 1980&#039;s before Bob and others started the Lojban effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now we&#039;ve again caught the interest of the academic community, and are taking measures to ensure that Loglan/Lojban is taken seriously and treated with respect. This first sci.lang discussion was the critical milestone. In the special section on Lojban and Linguistics below, John Cowan has done a superb effort at editing and condensing the non-linear discussion into what seems like a lively conversation, loaded with important ideas and detailed examples of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John then followed up this discussion by re-examining the old Zwicky review. While it is far too late to directly answer the critique in Language, John drafted a response to the key challenges posed by Zwicky, demonstrating that the Lojban design fully meets Zwicky&#039;s challenge. This response is also printed in the special section below, and will shortly be posted to sci.lang.&lt;br /&gt;
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The second discussion stemmed from a comparative discussion of artificial languages, concentrating on Esperanto and Ido. Nick Nicholas, an Australian Esperantist, posted a Suzanne Vega song translated into several artificial languages (later added to by Ivan Derzhanski), whereupon Bob joined in with a Lojban version. These translations, and some associated discussion, appear in le lojbo se ciska in this issue. A few of the Lojban- related postings are also included, with more planned for next issue (since the discussion continues).&lt;br /&gt;
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We received several compliments for our direct support of discussions on the network. Loglan continues its trend as being the first &#039;successful&#039; artificial language to have its development process openly observed and participated in by the academic community.&lt;br /&gt;
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Both network discussions were quite productive in terms of recruiting - we&#039;ve added over 50 people as a result. Nick (a Greek native) and Ivan (a Bulgarian native) have both expressed interest in learning Lojban; Nick has expressed especial interest in joining our growing group of Lojban poets.&lt;br /&gt;
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ApaLingua, Tand and Factsheet Five - Lojban continues to appear on occasion in the amateur and alternative press. Mike Gunderloy reviews each of our issues in Factsheet Five, and a recent issue (incidentally the first one to mention Institute publications) gave us our largest crop of new Lojbanists yet, over a dozen. This, coupled with the sci.lang discussions and our continuing word-of-mouth spread led to almost 1 new person per day throughout the first two months of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An amateur publication on linguistics, a sort of printed sci.lang, has been started, and several Lojbanists are among the participants. ApaLingua is published bi-monthly, and consists of several pages written and submitted by each of the subscribers. Like the computer networks, each per- son poses new topics for discussion and responds to the writings of others. There were over 30 contributors at the time of the sample issue Bob received in November, and it was clear that the group would be expanding rapidly. la lojbangirz. intends to participate in ApaLingua, but at this point Bob has had too many irons in the fire, and has committed to making substantial progress on the textbook before adding this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tand, another amateur publication has had discussions of Lojban for the last 3 issues. The 3rd issue, appearing after JL13, included a lot of reader feedback, some positive and more negative. We&#039;ve pretty much decided to see where these discussions lead before responding further. Tand comes out infrequently, and the type of comments being raised are best answered by people looking at our publications to avoid our repeating (to editor Mark Manning&#039;s great distaste) large quantities of the same type of thing that appears here in JL.&lt;br /&gt;
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Evecon and Arisia - la lojbangirz. participated in this year&#039;s edition of Evecon, the largest science fiction convention here in the Washington DC area. Bob, Nora, and Athelstan gave several talks during the New Years weekend, and staffed a booth that provided information about Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile, Coranth D&#039;Gryphon attended Arisia, a February Boston area science fiction convention. Several new people signed up, making it the most successful convention recruiting effort yet among those not attended by Bob and Nora. Coranth is planning to follow this effort up with a class this spring taught through an MIT extension program.&lt;br /&gt;
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GURT - Bob and Athelstan are planning to attend the Georgetown University Round Table of Linguistics, an annual event of significant stature in the linguistics community. A focus of this year&#039;s meetings, the first week of April, is on language acquisition and education. We are planning to use these meetings to expand our contacts with members of the linguistic community, and move towards an examination by that community of the potential value for Lojban in linguistic research and language education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Trip: Will This One Happen? - Bob and Nora have been promising themselves a trip to California for two years now (Bob grew up in the San Francisco area), but it always seemed to be another 2 months away; there always seemed to be another deadline. THIS time we&#039;re a bit more optimistic, and are planning a late April trip to the Bay Area. We&#039;ll probably be able to come for a week and associated weekends. This one should really come off, since Nora&#039;s boss is encouraging her to take an April vacation. Occasional considerations of a side trip to Los Angeles and San Diego are being set aside; too many trips have been cancelled because of excess ambition (and Nora needs a REAL vacation). &lt;br /&gt;
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Our intent is to give several talks on Lojban while there, both to existing Lojbanists and to potential recruits. We want to meet as many of you as possible, so try to set aside a little time for us. We badly need volunteers to help us organize these meetings, and provide or locate places we can get together. Call Bob immediately - (703) 385-0273 - if you can help, given the short time frame. We will try to put out a notice by mail a week or two ahead of time indicating our itinerary. Since Bob has sisters in the Santa Cruz and mid-Peninsula areas, and close friends in Berkeley, these are definite stops for at least a night or two each.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan Finally Makes a Trip - After two trips in two years being cancelled at the last minute, Athelstan says he will not promise trips in advance again. As a result (so he suspects), things finally started going right. After over a year and a half with one car problem after another, he got his car mobile enough to make it out of the DC area. Indeed, he made it all the way to Salt Lake City, where he stayed a couple weeks with Lojbanist Diane Lehmann and got her started learning the language. (He then rebuilt his car as he drove home, having packed a spare part for everything and finding he needed most of those spares. ba&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
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Press Release - In February, following the legal victory discussed under Institute News below, la lojbangirz. put out its first press release. This news release, a copy of which appears after this news section, went to over 300 members of the business and scientific press. The response thus far has been small, but with the world situation as lively as it has been, we wouldn&#039;t expect to be an immediate priority. Also, since each response is likely to turn into a news or magazine story, a few responses will go a long way. &lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Canadian checks OK - After having three of them make it through our bank with no problem and no service charge, I am happy to tell our Canadian friends that we can accept checks in Canadian currency if it is difficult or expensive to get US currency checks. We deposit the check, and the bank then adjusts the deposit for the exchange rate about a week later, which seems to be within a few cents of the standard rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that for other countries, we can accept a check on your non-US bank in your currency, but there is a service charge of US$3.50. We can also accept Master Card and Visa balance contributions with a service charge of 6%. &lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan&#039;s European trip aborted - In JL13, we reported that there were last minute problems threatening to cancel Athelstan&#039;s planned trip to the Netherlands World Science Fiction convention, and then around several countries of Europe. The problems continued to grow, and Athelstan&#039;s then-dead car made it impossible for him to get around and solve them. So he didn&#039;t go. We are still hoping to have some Lojbanist make it to Europe in the next couple of years, but I think we&#039;re going to avoid promises until there is something definite. &lt;br /&gt;
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Non-North American Lojbanists and the Fund-raising Drive - The November fund raising letter did not go to our overseas friends. Except for US and Canada subscribers, the postage cost was too high for the potential gain. Instead, we are sending those people who were on the list in November a somewhat modified form of the letter, representing the slightly different circumstances and our more liberal policy in support of non-North American Lojbanists. Note that balances reflected in the letters do not include the price of this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Simply put, for those JL subscribers with balances (in November when the letters were prepared) less than US$-30 who have never responded, we must hear from you by the next issue of JL in early May, or you will be dropped to level &#039;0&#039;. If you have responded, but not in the past year, we still want to hear from you, but can allow you support down to US$-50 before taking action to cut our losses. If your balance is below US$-50, we need to hear from you by the next JL issue, at minimum, to keep sending at this level.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideally, as many as possible will send some money, even if not enough to fully cover our costs. We&#039;re doing our best to subsidize non-US Lojbanists, but we need your help. Please respond.&lt;br /&gt;
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Non-English Materials - We now have French, Italian, and Esperanto translations of the &amp;quot;What is Lojban? la lojban. mo&amp;quot; brochure. The latter two are still only in the roughest of drafts, not even correctly typed in. We need volunteers to work with our translations, to polish them, to put them into computerized formats, and to add to the list of languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Trademark - The most significant news regarding The Loglan Institute, Inc. is that la lojbangirz. has won its challenge of TLI&#039;s trademark registration of the name &#039;Loglan&#039;. The decision was rendered in &#039;summary judgement&#039;; the issues were sufficiently clear-cut that there was no need for a trial. Following are excerpts from the decision. la lojbangirz. is &#039;Petitioner&#039; and The In- stitute is &#039;Respondent&#039;:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The facts of record clearly establish petitioner&#039;s genuine interest in the subject matter of the proceeding and support a reasonable belief that petitioner will be damaged by the continued existence of the registration sought to be cancelled...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;...both respondent and petitioner have filed documents evidencing use of the term LOGLAN as the generic name or the common descriptive name of a language developed by Dr. James Cooke Brown. Even Dr. Brown uses the term as the name of the language... There is apparently a community of persons interested in the development of the language who have conducted very active communications with one another and without exception they use the term Loglan to refer to the language, not as a trademark for the grammars and dictionaries which contain the words that make up, and information pertaining to, the construction of the language. ... In addition to the foregoing, we note that the Acronyms, Initialisms &amp;amp; Abbreviations Dictionary Ninth Edition, 1985-1986, lists the term, &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; and defines it as &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; ...&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... the evidence indicates that it was not until 1985 that respondent first expressed the view that LOGLAN was its trademark. ... Prior to that time, the term was used by Dr. Brown, respondent and others simply as the designation for the developing language, although it is reasonable to conclude that Dr. Brown and the Institute may have mistakenly believed that such use by others was with recognition of their purported proprietary rights.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;In view of the foregoing, it is our opinion that LOGLAN, being a generic term, does not function as a trademark for respondent&#039;s goods.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... petitioner&#039;s motion for summary judgement ... is granted as to the issue of the generic nature of the term LOGLAN. The petition for cancellation is granted and the registration will be cancelled in due course.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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We had filed on several other grounds, including fraudulent filing of the application for the trademark due to the several false statements therein and abandonment through failure to continually use the term as a trademark. The fraud claim was denied because we did not prove &amp;quot;fraud- ulent misconduct accompanied by some element of willfulness or bad faith&amp;quot;. The abandonment claim was declared moot since the term wasn&#039;t a valid trademark in the first place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lest there be any doubt, I/we have nothing personal against Dr. Brown. Indeed, we honor his genius in creating the language. We believe his policies have been mistaken and have as a result stultified the progress of the language, but this assertion didn&#039;t need a legal battle to be resolved. One only needs to observe the astounding relative success la lojbangirz. has had in promoting Loj- ban, which IS Loglan in every sense of the word, through our more liberal policies. (During the last three years, we have outgrown the Institute by a large measure in spite of the republication of Loglan 1 by TLI and several thousand dollars in advertising by TLI.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Institute can appeal the trademark decision, but such appeals historically have been considered frivolous, unless buoyed by significant new evidence. Since this decision was based on a matter of law, and sufficient facts to sup- port the decision were provided by The Institute on its own, possible bases for appeal are minimal.&lt;br /&gt;
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We thus consider the legal cloud on the language to be lifted. Threats of legal action by The Institute, originally against Bob and Jeff Prothero (before la lojbangirz. was incorporated), have been retracted or rendered invalid through this decision. People can use the name Loglan public-ally without fear of legal challenge; our success should cause TLI to have second thoughts before engaging in further legal harassment. The legal action was expensive (we intend NOT to pursue TLI for reimbursement of legal expenses, in the interest of ending the dispute), and it certainly has distracted Bob and others from more useful endeavors on behalf of the language (Bob may have put as much as 6 man-months into legal-related research that could have gone into textbook writing).&lt;br /&gt;
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The battle is over. It is time to move ahead, and to settle the war. Bob has written to Dr. Brown, proposing a settlement between our two efforts that would result in unity of the Loglan Project behind a Lojban recognized by Brown as a legitimate version of Loglan. The offer includes generous incentives towards unity that will en- hance Dr. Brown&#039;s influence and stature in the community, and aid TLI in performing the Loglan research for which it was originally founded. la lojbangirz. would be the principal interface with the community and the world, working to gain acceptance and support for the language. If accepted, Loglan would become the first major artificial language project to mend a split, giving us added credibility in convincing the world of Loglan&#039;s value. In addition, our combined resources would get more and better quality work accomplished in less time.&lt;br /&gt;
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We ask readers who have also supported The Institute to write to Dr. Brown and encourage him to move towards such a settlement.&lt;br /&gt;
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JCB&#039;s finances, TLI Fund-Raiser Fails - As a footnote to the legal decision, Dr. Brown reported in his latest Lognet newsletter that he suffered a serious personal financial setback. As a result, he no longer can financially support The Institute. Indeed, he had to take a large portion of the Institute&#039;s recent income to pay himself back in preference to using that money to further promote his version of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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This setback was coupled with a fund raising drive that coincidentally occurred at about the same time as our own. Dr. Brown sought donations sufficient to pay for another Scientific American advertisement, a cost of $3500. Apparently, less than half that amount was raised. This is probably a good thing for TLI, since Dr. Brown projected a gain of perhaps 150 new people from this advertising, an expense of over $20 per person - as much as the price of the book he is selling.&lt;br /&gt;
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We note that several of the large donors Dr. Brown listed contributed comparable amounts in our own fund raising drive. We did raise the $3500 and more in our effort, and are putting it towards producing more and better information about the language. Bob and Nora, and other major contributors, have made donations rather than loans. As a result, la lojbangirz. is relatively debt-free (we technically owe our subscribers their balances, and Bob, Nora, and Jeff Prothero have pledged donations against the legal debt). Dr. Brown meanwhile claims an enormous financial debt from the Institute (over $35,000 prior to la lojbangirz.&#039;s founding).&lt;br /&gt;
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TL to be revived? - The Institute has been trying to improve on its accomplishments. Several months ago, it announced that The Loglanist, its old journal somewhat comparable to Ju&#039;i Lobypli, was going to be revived under a new name starting in December 1990. This didn&#039;t happen. A specific editor was named in the first 1991 LogNet, but we have no further word on what is planned.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another Major Revision to Institute Loglan? - We have mentioned previously (and lambasted) a proposal to devise a series of &#039;declensions&#039; for each gismu in Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Arguments in favor and opposing this revision have appeared in each issue of Lognet for the past year, with Dr. Brown sounding alternatively supportive and skeptical of the proposal; Bob McIvor, who proposed it, is the other member of &#039;The Loglan Academy&#039; that approves changes to Institute Loglan. Dr. Brown has indicated that a decision is expected this spring.&lt;br /&gt;
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Interestingly, Dr. Brown claims that the Loglan engineering effort is complete, even while contemplating such major changes as this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Shareware? - The last issue of TLI&#039;s Lognet surprised Bob with a minor note in response to a letter. The letter suggested that TLI software be distributed as &#039;Shareware&#039;, and Dr. Brown indicated that the idea would be considered. Bob&#039;s and Nora&#039;s intention to distribute LogFlash as Share- ware triggered the intellectual property disputes that caused the current rift. While Shareware software can technically preserve copyrights, it causes those copyrights to be of minimal financial value, since Shareware is freely copyable. Is The Institute about to make a landmark change in its policy? We&#039;ll be watching.&lt;br /&gt;
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== A Survey of Lojban Applications ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Last issue, we gave a rather thorough progress report on the language development progress, and we provide updates on that status each issue. A couple of people have pointed out that we haven&#039;t provided comparable information on other aspects of the language - how Loglan/Lojban will be used. On our registration forms, we ask you to indicate one or more of several reasons for your interest in the language, and we have been remiss in not addressing those areas directly in these pages.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a reason for this, of course. Nearly all of the productive work being done is going towards the language development process. That phase is wrapping up, and people are slowly starting to use the language. As a result we can expect the other areas of interest to flower as more people learn the language. Meanwhile, we try to focus on the other areas one at a time, to keep people thinking about them.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is probably all that can really be done at this point. Until we have a community of fluent speakers, Lojban will lack credibility among professionals in several of the interest areas. Moreover, we will have trouble raising funds through grants and contracts that would greatly advance our capabilities in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, it is worthwhile to have a brief review of each area. Following is a summary, from Bob&#039;s perspective, of each area:&lt;br /&gt;
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The Language Development Process - Of course, we have reported on specific achievements in the language development as they have occurred. In JL13, we surveyed where the language development process stood with regard to individual areas of the design. There is a broader picture, though, that might be missed in looking too closely.&lt;br /&gt;
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Loglan has been the most public language development project in terms of public knowledge of the decisions being made and input into the decision-making itself. Indeed, it was this public involvement that led to the big political squabbles of the last decade. People who have been involved in the language development feel that the language is theirs.&lt;br /&gt;
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A side-effect of such a political dispute has been quite positive; we have pretty much isolated the politics of the &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; from the language development process itself. The community understands that it is listened to by those who make day-to-day design decisions. This has allowed the process to proceed by consensus; there have been few non- unanimous decisions during the development process.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ideas and proposals are talked out thoroughly if proposed. A recent discussion of relativistic tenses on the computer mailing list overflowed every reader&#039;s mailbox with dozens of pages of discussion. The discussion continues, and is far from a consensus; no change is being made. Meanwhile, the several dozen minor cmavo changes and grammar changes have so far attracted minimal comment (and they can hardly be more abstruse than the interaction of light-cones at relativistic speeds). They are expected to be adopted by consensus.&lt;br /&gt;
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The extent of the Loglan development process has had a second effect, also a benefit. There have been few splinter efforts. Lojban itself is one; the splinter has become the mainstream. The Institute version of the language is ever-changing, and drawing small numbers in spite of massive advertising and a completed book. Jim Carter&#039;s language project remains essentially a one-person effort, and Jim himself remains a Lojban supporter. Meanwhile la lojbangirz. grows at an ever-accelerating rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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An effect of the dozens of person-years of work put into Loglan/Lojban is that it has become a new standard in artificial language development. Most previous artificial languages have been predominantly the result of one person&#039;s work. But, now, no individual language inventor can hope to put as much work into a language design as we all have. Barring some major new insight into the nature of language, any future language development project hoping to improve upon Lojban would likely require several people working together, and most likely will build on the work we and others have done rather than start anew.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that this is as it should be. The Library of Congress has dozens of books about one-man languages that never went anywhere. Language is by its nature a commu- nicative process between people with varying experience. One person cannot simultaneously test speakability and understandability, and viable languages must exhibit both virtues across the full range of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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A final aspect of the publicness of the language development is the emphasis on keeping a record of what we have done. An enormous archive is being built and maintained on this development effort. Whether any particular version of Loglan survives and prospers, those who come later will see what we have done and be able to learn from it. Among artificial languages, only Esperanto has any significant historical record of the language before it blossomed into public knowledge, and that record is sparse compared to the Loglan/Lojban record.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other feature of the language development process worthy of comment is our reliance on keeping abreast of the field of linguistics, gathering as much information is possible on what has been learned about human language before claiming to have invented a language that can serve as a human language. This serves us well in &#039;selling Lojban&#039; to both language learners and linguistics researchers, making the other goals of the language more achievable. &lt;br /&gt;
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Machine Translation and Computer Applications - The major bases of computer scientists&#039; interest in Lojban stem from the potential computer applications of the language, of which machine translation of natural language is the most well-known. A large portion of the Lojban community, perhaps as much as 50%, are people working in the broad area of computer science, if not specifically in artificial intelligence, computer language design, machine translation, or any of the several fields where Lojban applications may develop.&lt;br /&gt;
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Work on these applications is still predominantly at the concept stage, for two major reasons. First is that the language development is not fully baselined, and computer application developers avoid as much as possible trying to hit a moving target. When that baseline occurs, and if the language has achieved credibility as a human language, the second obstacle can be challenged. That obstacle is, of course, money. Most useful computer applications will take several person-years of development, requiring work from people used to fairly high salaries. Some might work on small efforts as a hobby, but we cannot expect these efforts to bear fruit, though they might serve as a seed for some future effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Getting the first financial support for Loglan applications will be difficult; Dr. Brown made one brief attempt in the late 1970&#039;s that was ignored. la lojbangirz. is taking a more systematic approach, building credibility and being aware of other research where Lojban may prove a useful adjunct. We also have been building awareness of our effort in the computer science community. When Lojban development is complete, we will have the ideas, the language, the contacts, and hopefully the credibility, to convince some research grant source to commit a large sum of money to pursue these applications.&lt;br /&gt;
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Until then, we need to exchange ideas. Patrick Juola wrote on Lojban and machine translation back in JL8, and JL9 discussed the closely related area of Lojban as a mathematics and science interlingua. Sheldon Linker has thought about the design of a heuristic learning and con- versation program (something like the HAL 9000 computer of 2001 - A Space Odyssey). Art Wieners has been pursuing similar ideas, and has done experimental work on the software needed to recognize Lojban words. Of course, the YACC grammar for Lojban enhances this line of research, and John Cowan&#039;s parser, coupled with Jeff Taylor and Jeff Prothero&#039;s earlier work, may provide the capability to go from individual speech sounds (phonemes) to fully analyzed text structure within a few months.&lt;br /&gt;
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One area we would like to pursue is the current research being done in teaching computers &#039;common-sense&#039;. Some researchers are not too far from getting computers to understand a large subset of English. The simpler, more regular grammar of Lojban should make the computer processing for language structure much lighter, allowing more effort to go into &#039;understanding&#039; of language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob, as editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, would like to encourage more computer scientists to write brief outlines of their ideas for Lojban for the benefit of JL readers. These seeds, planted today, may become grant proposals tomorrow.&lt;br /&gt;
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International Language - JL11 and JL13 have contained significant discussion of the oft-made comparisons between Loglan and Esperanto, and this issue hopefully brings those discussions to a conclusion. As the computer network discussions excerpted later in this issue demonstrate, the topic has not been limited to this journal. The topic has been thoroughly addressed, but let&#039;s summarize the key elements of the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will first cover the question of Lojban as an common language in certain specialized domains, such as mathematics, international law, etc. The arguments with Esperantists in these pages and elsewhere have not addressed these questions. Each language brings its own advantages to the problem. Esperanto brings its culture, demonstrated speaker base, and (surprisingly as an &#039;advantage&#039;) its European structure and vocabulary. When well over 90% of the published material in the world is written in a European language, and most of that in English, Loglan&#039;s non-European grammar is NOT an advantage. Loglan&#039;s advantages are that its grammar is unambiguous, that machine translation was considered in making design decisions, and that it is likely to be seen less as a &amp;quot;colonial&amp;quot; (=European) language to Third World populations.&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t clear what parameters could be used to decide what &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;best&amp;quot;. Esperanto has a large number of speakers, an established community, culture, and literature, and considerable recognition outside its own speaker base as &amp;quot;the&amp;quot; international language. On the other hand, many Esperantists admit that the language has flaws, and that other languages invented since have remedied some of these flaws (usually while introducing new ones that are equally severe); they contend however, that the entire set of flaws in the language are more than made up by the 100 years of language experience that has been acquired.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, Bob, agree with this position. Esperanto is presently in good standing as the prime candidate among artificial languages. Under the best of circumstances for us, Lojban will not legitimately contest this standing for at least a generation, because it will take at least that long for Lojban to build a literature, culture, etc. It may not happen even then.&lt;br /&gt;
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It remains to be proven whether any artificial language, or any single language at all can serve the needs of a &amp;quot;world language&amp;quot;. I doubt that most people really know what such a language would entail. Those who raise the claim of English as such a language, for example, forget that English is not a single language. Only in rigid, formal, written text like scientific writing is there enough standardization that various English dialects are mutually intelligible to the degree required by an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot;. I can note that, even there, one can find lapses. Last year, I read a technical book on lexicography, the science of dictionary-making, written by a Czech linguist under the auspices of the United Nations, and translated with his help into English. Portions were only barely intelligible. Yet it was clear that the author did have considerable command of idiomatic English, and Czech is a European language, presumably closer to English than most non-European ones. And this was written by a linguist who specializes in writing dictionaries of other languages, and therefore highly aware of the difficulties in international communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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I contend that colloquial or conversational communication will be much more difficult to unify under the auspices of an &#039;international language&#039;. This is because the problem is NOT a lack of a common language, but a lack of educa- tion. Education starts with the ability to read and write your own native language fluently - who could justify asking someone to learn to read a second language when they cannot read their own - and how would you teach them. But a large portion of the world&#039;s population, probably a majority, is totally illiterate, and others are only semi- literate. How dare we as Loglanists expect to teach them predicate logic or even relativistic tenses!&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t necessary to learn to read and write in order to learn a language, but all international language proposals have been predominantly targeted at the educated speaker, and teaching materials and methods generally require ability to read and write as well as some understanding about the formal rules of your native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not damn the illiterate. The supposedly literate societies are just as bad as targets for an international language. How much of the recent turmoil in the Middle East has been due to the fact that Westerners, especially Americans, do not understand Arabic culture, much less the Arabic language? The journalists seemed to consider it a major discovery that &amp;quot;mother of all battles&amp;quot;, conveyed to us as a grandiose pomposity by Saddam Hussein, was merely the literal English translation of a rather natural Arabic way of saying &amp;quot;big battle&amp;quot;. Translate the phrase literally into Esperanto or Lojban and it would still convey misleading ideas - you cannot translate idiom literally without error. You may not be able to translate non-idiom literally, either - imagine the misunderstanding of an translation that results in using the traditional meaning of &amp;quot;gay&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us say that it is agreed that there will be an international language (not as universally agreed as many enthusiasts might want to believe), the language must be chosen. Then the method(s) of teaching the language must be developed, methods on a scale large enough to overcome differences of education, and access to materials. If only the most educated members of a society are taught to speak an international language, the only &amp;quot;achievement&amp;quot; is a class system with walls virtually impossible to surmount. (Of course, motivating a farmer who never runs into foreigners to learn an international language may be difficult. But if she/he doesn&#039;t learn the language, his/her children will be severely handicapped in joining the internationally-connected &#039;upper-class&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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If a language is chosen, it should probably be an artificial one, and Esperanto is by far the leading candidate. Indeed, with the exception of Lojban (which has major goals independent of the international language question to drive it), there are no other meaningful candidates. The other artificial languages of the world simply do not offer anything to justify their selection.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why? Because other candidates have little to offer besides some aesthetic purity of design, and a purported claim that they are &#039;easier to learn&#039; than Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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But questions of which artificial language is most &amp;quot;easy to learn&amp;quot; are red herrings that settle nothing. Indeed, close examination tends to reveal that artificial languages theoretically are no easier to learn than natural languages - I&#039;ve heard no claim that the few children who are Es- peranto &#039;native speakers&#039; because they are raised in a household where Esperanto is spoken, learn their language any faster than an English-native speaker learns English.&lt;br /&gt;
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For second-language learning, too much depends on student background, motivation, and method. There are as many theories of the &amp;quot;best&amp;quot; way to teach a language as there are researchers; yet they give approximately similar results when tested against real students. How could non-spe- cialists be better able to judge fine distinctions as to which language is easier to teach, or to learn?&lt;br /&gt;
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The methodology and the goal are more important than the language. Esperanto vocabulary may be easier for an English speaker to learn, but if this merely leads to English-native Esperantists that speak an encoded English idiom, why bother? They have not learned an international language, because non-English speakers will fail to under- stand the idiom. (When Lojbanists speak encoded idiom, it stands out so starkly that &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; is one of the first words a practicing Lojbanist learns.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A quote from Andrew Large&#039;s The Artificial Language Movement may help set a perspective. Large cites a President of the international Esperanto organization UEA, as giving the following as an estimate of Esperanto&#039;s ease of learning:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... Professor Lapenna offered a reasonable estimate of two or three hours per week for a year in order to acquire &amp;quot;a solid groundwork of knowledge of Esperanto&#039;s grammatical structure and of five hundred or so selected roots, from which the language&#039;s agglutinative structure enables one to derive some five thousand words.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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This sounds far easier than learning a natural language (about the equivalent of a 1 semester, 3 credit class, spread over a full year), but the comparison with natural language is only relevant if someone is choosing between learning a second natural language and Esperanto. The choice is seldom that simple - except for mandatory school requirements, most people learn a language because they intend to use it. People who seriously study a second natural language spend far more than a couple hours a week in study for a year (or longer) if they want to achieve competence in that language; Lapenna&#039;s estimate is only a hobbyist level-of-effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Serious students with serious goals in language competence study much more intensely, and achieve much better results than Lapenna claims. I learned the Lojban gismu list, 1300 words easily giving millions if not billions of agglutinative compounds, in 3 months of a bit more than an hour a day - perhaps half of Lapenna&#039;s total time estimate at twice the intensity - yet I don&#039;t claim the Lojban vocabulary is as easy to learn for English speakers as Esperanto&#039;s cognates. The advantage was due to more intense effort, interest, and a teaching method especially effective at vocabulary instruction. (At such a higher level of effort, Esperanto students might learn a few more roots due to the cognate recognition factor, but not all that many more.)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, if the claim is that Esperanto, or any artificial language, is easier to learn than a natural language at a hobbyist level of effort, I would never contest this. But that level of effort gives insufficient rewards in terms of achievement and understanding to sustain the motivation of the average person.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll claim, by the way, that vocabulary learning is the major factor in achieving the kind of language skill Lapenna is talking about, at least in an artificial language. Elsewhere in the same discussion, Large notes that a few hours of study are all that it takes to understand the basics of Esperanto&#039;s grammar. We can make the same claim about Lojban. But grammar is not the critical factor. (In natural languages, it is idiom, and other exceptions to the standard grammar, that makes a language time consuming to master.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Returning specifically to Lojban, as an international language candidate. The essential first requirement is that Lojban be demonstrated as truly viable as a language, among several different native-language populations. This will not be easy. Lojban is not yet spoken by any non-na- tive-English speaker, and the few in that category that are studying the language must obviously know English to learn Lojban, since we have no materials beyond our brochure in any foreign language. We must develop fluent Lojbanists who also are fluent in other languages in order to get these materials. (Silvia Romanelli reported working on translating the draft textbook lessons into Italian a year ago, but we do not know her current status.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is likely to be the first non-English language that we have substantial Lojban teaching materials in, simply because it is the most commonly spoken non-English language in the community (and the largest audience of people immediately likely to be interested in learning an- other artificial language for any purpose).&lt;br /&gt;
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The politics of choosing an international language favor Esperanto, or even English, by far over Lojban. There is little to be done in this arena other than to survive and grow as a language. This takes speakers and money, and for the near future we will have to concentrate on English speakers, while trying to constantly reach out to natives of other languages. The English-speaking market is the hardest one though; English predominance as an international means of communication means that there is lower motivation among English speakers to learn other languages - and motivation and effort, as I said above, are everything. Even Esperanto has made few inroads in the English-speaking market (ELNA, the North American Esperanto organization, has only around 1000 members, only a few times the effective size of la lojbangirz.) la lojbangirz. can gain enormous credibility if we can motivate Americans and other English-speakers to learn a candidate international language. We have an advantage, being centered in the United States, and should use that advantage.&lt;br /&gt;
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It won&#039;t be easy, though. Most Americans never learn to speak a foreign language at even a minimal level (Europeans, including the British are apparently much better in this regard; Canadians are almost certainly exposed to French to some considerable degree; I have no knowledge of foreign language education in other English- speaking countries). If a Southern Californian (I lived there 9 years), faced with almost a majority of native Spanish-speaking neighbors, can avoid learning Spanish fluently, much less minimally, what will make her/him learn Lojban. It won&#039;t be ease of learning. It must be motivation and education. People must come to believe that understanding the ideas of those of different cultures is important.&lt;br /&gt;
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The international language movement must be a movement of education. Lojban&#039;s contribution to that movement will therefore not be as a competitor with Esperanto, but as a tool of education, used in cooperation with Esperantists, and all others who seek to improve the world&#039;s lot through education.&lt;br /&gt;
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Intercultural Communications/Studies - This is often the goal of those supporting international languages: a means to understand other cultures. Ease of learning is not the most important factor here, cultural neutrality is far more important.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve put a lot of effort during the last year to ensure that Lojban has incorporated the means to express the ideas of different cultures with equal ease. Language typology, the study of universals that all languages have in common, and the differences that make each language unique, is a study that is finally gaining significant progress. From this work, we can see what linguistic features Lojban needs to succeed as a language, and what features it must emulate in order to successfully model other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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In particular, I&#039;ve concentrated on a book, The World&#039;s Major Languages, edited by B. Comrie. This book surveys several dozen languages in considerable detail, both European and non-European. After 6 months of steady plowing, I can report that Lojban has the capability of conveying the essence of each of the idiosyncratic structures I found, though sometimes in unusual ways. For example, the &#039;topic construction&#039; of Japanese turns out to be nicely modelled by Lojban&#039;s prenex construction, designed for certain logical expressions. The Chinese sentences used as examples can often be conveyed in Lojban as very elaborate tanru. It is clear to me that, if the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is true, then Lojban&#039;s ability to model the structures of the world&#039;s languages will lead to a corresponding ability to understand the cultures that use those languages. Time will surely tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s value in understanding other cultures is enhanced by the requirement to thoroughly think about what you wish to say in culture-free terms in order to express it in Lojban, with its drastically different structures. The translations of a Suzanne Vega song lyric into several artificial languages in le lojbo se ciska, and my commentary, may be more revealing than a lot of words here. It took me a couple of hours to do the Lojban translation, not because anything therein was hard to say in Lojban, but it took time to figure out just what the author was trying to say (and I&#039;m a native English speaker).&lt;br /&gt;
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Expressing cultural ideas in Lojban for the benefit of those in other cultures, will be slow and at times cumbersome, especially for those not fluent in the language. But the problem is not trivial, and a little deliberation may be a good sign rather than a bad one.&lt;br /&gt;
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Language Education - Half of language education for natural languages (or even more) is understanding the culture of the target language, since so much of the natural idiom of a language is tied to various cultural metaphors. Thus everything mentioned in the last section provides a benefit for Lojban as a medium for learning other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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I noted above that linguists have determined no optimal method for teaching languages. A survey I&#039;ve done of both traditional and innovative teaching methods indicates that each method has advantages and disadvantages; they will work for some students and not for others.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have found the same thing with LogFlash, our superb vocabulary teaching method. Both Nora and I have learned the Lojban vocabulary with what we saw as incredible ease, and more important, with incredible staying power - we don&#039;t forget what we have learned. But the method requires the student to use the program for about 2-3 months at an hour a day, with major interruptions causing a significant delay in mastery of the language. We&#039;re working on improvements with the next version of the program that will minimize the effect of interruption or lesser time spent, but the bottom line is that the method requires a commitment to regular use - it takes a certain number of hours to learn a certain amount of vocabulary. Someone who doesn&#039;t spend that time, regularly for 3 months, will have less success. People who need a variety of activities to maintain their interest may find LogFlash&#039;s monotonous, if effective, drills beyond their tolerance (unless they spend additional time above and beyond LogFlash study in other Lojbanic activities).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban, however, offers an excellent laboratory for experimenting with new methods in language education, and the techniques we have developed as amateurs have already proven effective for people trying to learn other languages. Darren Stalder, now studying Japanese, reports that studying Lojban gave him an awareness of the lin- guistic features of how words sound (phonology) that has greatly enhanced his learning of Japanese. He understands the rules for pronouncing the language, but also better understands why the rules hold, allowing him to better remember the rules when they apply as well as to extrapo- late when the rules do not explicitly cover the situation. Sylvia Rutiser has also been working with Japanese, trying to use the LogFlash flash card techniques to learn the Japanese writing system.&lt;br /&gt;
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I personally think that language education may be one of the areas where Lojban first scores a breakthrough that attracts attention from those not directly interested in the language itself. When the textbook is complete, I will be seeking funding to pursue the study of Lojban as a tech- nique of language education. In the meantime, I&#039;ll be listening carefully at the relevant discussions at the Georgetown Round Table meetings on this subject in April.&lt;br /&gt;
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Linguistics Research - Much of the rest of this issue addresses the subject of Lojban and the linguistics community, so I won&#039;t spend much space here. As that discussion will show, the concept of using Lojban to study creolization processes (how languages evolve in contact with other languages) is a new idea that should have significant credibility. Unlike a comparable study based on a natural language, studying the creolization of Lojban gains the benefit of a clear statement as to what the language is before the start of such an evolutionary process, thus allowing changes to be more easily observed and measured.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most attention regarding Loglan linguistics research has been with regard to testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, the original goal and primary ideal of some supporters of the language. JL6 and JL7 discussed this topic considerably, and there has been more discussion since then, including some in the computer network material in this issue. However, a Sapir-Whorf test may take decades to plan and conduct, and may be unconvincing to some even if successful.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus far more important to Lojban&#039;s future in linguistics research, and its credibility among linguists, is that Loglan/Lojban be proven useful for studying other aspects of language. We are lucky in this. Dr. Brown, in inventing the language, envisioned and designed it to serve as a &#039;test bed&#039; for language experimentation, having a minimum of features that might detract from the ability for later linguists to use Loglan as a tool to learn. We believe that the Lojban designers have stuck to this principle, and even enhanced it, in the last few years. What remains is to convince the linguists that we are correct.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us turn now to the first step in making the linguistic case for Lojban, the response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 critique of Loglan. We will then follow with other aspects of Lojban&#039;s application, especially as discussed on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Response to Arnold Zwicky&#039;s 1969 Review of Loglan 1 Loglan and Lojban: A Linguist&#039;s Questions And An Amateur&#039;s Answers ==&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan (ci&#039;a la djan. kau,n.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Internet address: cowan@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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The following questions about Loglan are based on a 1969 review by Arnold M. Zwicky of James Cooke Brown&#039;s 1966 edition of Loglan 1. Although basically friendly, Zwicky&#039;s review raises a large number of linguistic objections to Loglan as it existed in 1966. The review represents the only formal notice the linguistics community has ever taken of the Loglan Project. Unfortunately, the Project has never made any reply.&lt;br /&gt;
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The answers that appear here reflect the perspective of Lojban (not Institute Loglan) as it exists in 1991. Therefore, no attempts have been made to sort out Zwicky&#039;s misunderstandings of Brown&#039;s text, Brown&#039;s misunderstandings (or mistakes in writing) about his own language, valid points as of 1969 that were later changed by Brown, and valid points as of 1969 that were changed when (or since) Lojban split from Institute Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
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Throughout, &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; refers to 1966 Loglan as seen by Zwicky, and &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; to 1991 Lojban as seen by me. The word &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot; is derived from the same metaphor as &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) but using Lojban words (&amp;quot;logji bangu&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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As the title indicates, I am only an amateur (lit. &amp;quot;lover&amp;quot;) of linguistics, and I may misinterpret some of Zwicky&#039;s points. The question-and-answer format used here is purely for expository convenience. Zwicky is not responsible for the form of the questions, which reflect only my interpretations of his points, except for quoted text within the questions followed by (Z), which are quotations from Zwicky&#039;s original review. That review was published in Language 45:2 (1969), pp. 444-457.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. Lojban sentences do not have unique interpretations; how can Lojban be said to be unambiguous?&lt;br /&gt;
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The sense in which Lojban is said to be unambiguous is not a simple one, and some amplification of the fundamental claim is necessary. Ambiguity is judged on four levels: the phonological-graphical, the morphological, the syntactic, and the semantic.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is audio-visually isomorphic: the writing system has a grapheme for every phoneme and vice versa, and there are no supra-segmental phonemes (such as tones or pitch) which are not represented in the writing system. Lojban&#039;s phonology contains significant pauses that affect word boundaries, and allows pauses between any two words. The optional written representation for pause is a period, although pauses can be unambiguously identified in written text from the morphological rules alone. Lojban also uses stress significantly, and again there is a written representation (capitalization of the affected vowel or syllable), which is omitted in most text, where the morphological default of penultimate stress applies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is morphologically unambiguous in two senses: a string of phonemes (including explicit pause and stress information) can be broken up into words in only one way, and each compound word can be converted to and from an equivalent phrase in only one way.&lt;br /&gt;
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The syntactic unambiguity of Lojban has been established by the use of a LALR(1) parser generator which, in cooperation with a series of simple pre-parser operations, produces a unique parse for every Lojban text. In addition, the existence of a defined &#039;phrase structure rule&#039; grammar underlying the language (and tested via the parser generator) guarantees that there are no sentences where distinct deep structures generate isomorphic surface structures. On the other hand, Lojban does have transformations, although they are not explicit in the machine grammar: there are distinct surface structures which have the same semantics, and therefore reflect the same underlying deep structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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The claim for semantic unambiguity is a limited one only. Lojban contains several constructs which are explicitly ambiguous semantically. The most important of these are Lojban tanru (so-called &#039;metaphors&#039;) and Lojban names. Names are ambiguous in almost any language, and Lojban is no better; a name simply must be resolved in context, and the only final authority for the meaning of a name is the user of the name. tanru are further discussed in later replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. If the meaning of a particular tanru cannot be completely understood from understanding the component parts, a separate dictionary entry is needed for every possible tanru, making the Lojban dictionary infinitely long. How can this be avoided?&lt;br /&gt;
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tanru are binary combinations of predicates, such that the second predicate is the &#039;head&#039; and the first predicate is a modifier for that head. The meaning of the tanru is the meaning of its head, with the additional information that there is some unspecified relationship between the head and the modifier. tanru are the basis of compound words in Lojban. However, a compound word has a single defined meaning whereas the meaning of a tanru is explicitly ambiguous. Lojban tanru are not as free as English figures of speech; they are &#039;analytic&#039;, meaning that the components of the tanru do not themselves assume a figurative sense. Only the connection between them is unstated.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most of the constructs of Lojban are semantically unambiguous, and there are semantically unambiguous ways (such as with relative clauses) to paraphrase the meaning of any tanru. For example, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;plastic-cat&amp;quot;) might be paraphrased in ways that translate to &amp;quot;cat that is made from plastic&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;cat which eats plastic&amp;quot; or various other interpretations, just as in English. However, the single (compound) word derived from this tanru, &amp;quot;slasymlatu&amp;quot;, has exactly one meaning from among the interpretations, which could be looked up in a dictionary (if someone had found the word useful enough to formally submit it). There is no law compelling the creation of such a word, however, and there is even an &#039;escape mechanism&#039; allowing a speaker to indicate that a particular instance of a &#039;nonce&#039; compound word is &#039;nonstandard&#039; (has not been checked against a dictionary or other standard), and may have a meaning based on an unusual interpretation of the underlying tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. The Loglan &#039;primitive words&#039; seem to have been chosen at random, without regard to any sort of semantic theory. Why was this done?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban content words are built up from a list of about 1300 root words (called &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;), which are not necessarily to be taken as semantically simple. Lojban does not claim to exhibit a complete and comprehensive semantic theory which hierarchically partitions the entire semantic space of human discourse.&lt;br /&gt;
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Rather, the 1300-odd root words blanket semantic space, in the sense that everything human beings talk about can be built up using appropriate tanru. This claim is being tested in actual usage, and root words can still be added if necessary (after careful consideration) if genuine gaps are found. For the most part, the few gaps which are now recognized (about 20 words will be added soon) reflect the completing of semantic sets. It is no longer permitted for language users to create new gismu root words (in the standard form of the language, at least); newly coined words must fall recognizably outside the highly regulated gismu morphological space (a specific and separate morphological structure is reserved for coined words - usually borrowings - and a marker is available to indicate that a word is a &#039;nonce&#039; coinage rather than an established &#039;dictionary word&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s empirically derived word list is similar to that of Basic English, which replaces the whole English vocabulary with English-normal compounds built from about 800 root words. Lojban and Basic English both allow for the adoption of technical terms from other languages to cover things like plant and animal names, food names, and names of chemical compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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The unfortunate terms &amp;quot;primitive word&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;prim&amp;quot; formerly used by the Loglan Project suggested the notion that Lojban&#039;s set of gismu was meant to be a list of semantic primitives. This is not the case for Lojban, and the more neutral term &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot; was adopted recently to reduce confusion. Lojban predicate words, therefore, are now divided into gismu &#039;root words&#039;, lujvo &#039;compound words&#039; and le&#039;avla &#039;borrowings&#039; (lit. &#039;taken words&#039;). (Brown did originally select some words as &#039;semantic primitives&#039;; however, he later added words with no claim that the addi- tions were &#039;primitive&#039; in the same sense).&lt;br /&gt;
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4. Some tanru seem poorly designed and not in keeping with expressed standards. Also, tanru like &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot;, analogous to English &amp;quot;girls&#039; school&amp;quot;, are so open-ended in sense that there is no way to block such far-fetched interpretations as &amp;quot;a school intended to train girls between the ages of 6 and 10 to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, which is patently absurd. What is the proper interpretation of tanru?&lt;br /&gt;
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In the early part of the Loglan Project, poor tanru were regrettably common. In particular, it was common for tanru to be calques on English expressions, such as &amp;quot;beautiful type of small&amp;quot; for English &amp;quot;pretty small&amp;quot;. Many tanru employed the primitive for &amp;quot;make&amp;quot;&#039; (in the sense &amp;quot;make from materials&amp;quot;) where &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; would have been more appropriate (e.g. &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;dead-make&amp;quot;). Many years worth of effort since then have gone into removing such malglico (&#039;derogatively English&#039;) tanru from Lojban texts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tanru &amp;quot;nixli ckule&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;girl type of school&amp;quot;) cannot mean, out of context, &amp;quot;school intended to train girls between 6 and 10 years of age to play the bassoon&amp;quot;, although if such a school existed it could certainly be called a nixli ckule. This interpretation can be rejected as implausible because it involves additional restrictive information. The undefined relationship between &amp;quot;nixli&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ckule&amp;quot; cannot drag in additional information &#039;by the hair&#039;, as it were. Instead, this intricate interpretation would require a larger tanru incorporating nixli ckule as one of its components, or else a non-tanru construct, probably involving a Lojban relative clause. As a comparison, such interpretations as &amp;quot;school containing girls&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;school whose students are girls&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;school to train persons to behave like girls&amp;quot; are plausible with minimal context because these renderings do not involve ad- ditional restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. Lojban claims to be unambiguous, but many constructs have vague meanings, and the meanings of the primitives themselves are extremely poorly specified. On the other hand, Lojban forces precision on speakers where it is not wanted and where natural-language speakers can easily avoid it. Is this appropriate to a culturally neutral, unambiguous language?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s avoidance of ambiguity does not mean an avoidance of vagueness. A Lojban aphorism states that the price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity, as indeed Wilkins&#039; Philosophical Language illustrates. Lojban&#039;s allowable vagueness permits useful sentences to be not much longer than their natural-language counterparts.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are many ways to omit information in Lojban, and it is up to the listener to reconstruct what was meant, just as in natural languages. In each construct, there are specific required and optional components. Unlike English, omitting an optional component explicitly and unambiguously flags an ellipsis. Furthermore, the listener has a clear way of querying any of this elliptically omitted information.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are also some categories which are necessary in Lojban and not in other languages. For example, Lojban requires the speaker, whenever referring to objects, to specify whether the objects are considered as individuals, as a mass, or as a (set theoretic) set. Likewise, logical relations are made explicit: there can be no neutrality in Lojban about inclusive vs. exclusive &#039;or&#039;, which are no more closely related semantically than any other pair of logical connectives.&lt;br /&gt;
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These properties are a product of Lojban&#039;s fundamental design, which was chosen to emphasize a highly distinctive and non-natural syntax (that of formal first-order predicate logic) embedded in a language with the same expressive power as natural languages. Through the appearance of this one highly unusual feature, the intent of the Loglan Project has been to maximize one difference between Lojban and natural languages without compromising speakability and learnability. This difference could then be tested by considering whether the use of first-order predicate logic as a syntactic base aided fluent Lojban speakers in the use of this logic as a reasoning tool.&lt;br /&gt;
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As to the &#039;primitives&#039;, Lojban gismu roots are defined rather abstractly, in order to cover as large a segment of closely related semantic space as possible. These broad (but not really vague) concepts can then be restricted using tanru and other constructs to any arbitrary degree necessary for clarity. Communicating the meaning of a gismu (or any other Lojban word) is a problem of teaching and lexicography. The concepts are defined as predicate relationships among various arguments, and various experimental approaches have been explored throughout the Loglan Project to determine the best means to convey these meanings. It is believed that the current working definitions of the gismu are much more clear than the 1966 set.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. On a more technical note, Lojban tanru involving more than two components are always left-grouping (in the absence of a marker word). Right-branching structure is &amp;quot;much more natural to human languages&amp;quot; (Z). Why was this choice made? &lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is predominantly a left-branching language. By default, all structures are left-branching, with right- branching available when marked by a particle. Since the head of most constructs appears on the left, left-branching structures tend to favor the speaker. Nothing spoken needs to be revised to add more information. When the head is on the right, as in the case of tanru, left-branching may seem counter-intuitive, as it requires the listener to retain the entire structure in mind until the head is found. However, left-branching was retained even in tanru for the sake of simplicity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Experience has shown, however, that Lojban&#039;s left- branching structure is not a major problem for language learners. Indeed, many longer English metaphors translate directly into Lojban using simple left-branching structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. Loglan anaphora use a convention which is &amp;quot;quite precise, and also quite unlike anything in natural languages&amp;quot; (Z), involving counting backward from the reference to the referent. This provides unique reference, but is also difficult to understand and use. Is there nothing better that preserves the desirable property of unique reference which a logical language needs?&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban anaphora conventions have undergone much revision and expansion since the early days of Loglan. There now exist both the &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot; Loglan back-counting anaphora, which refer to previous referents, and more &amp;quot;natural-language-like&amp;quot; anaphoric words which are meaningless until assigned. Assignment may be either in after-thought or forethought. These words are somewhat like natural language pronouns, but may more closely be compared to the use of regions of space in American Sign Language to refer to remote persons and things. Unassigned space regions in ASL are similarly meaningless.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is no longer a required convention that anaphora variables be assigned in a fixed order. Subscripts (as in mathematics) are allowed almost everywhere in the language, and provide for a countable infinity of variables as of many other things. Lojban also has added the capability of using individual letters and acronyms as anaphoric symbols.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. Why does Loglan have a different and even more complex system of &amp;quot;personal pronouns&amp;quot; for speaker/listener reference? Is this level of complexity really in order for what other languages treat as a simple matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban personal pronouns have been simplified. There are now forms for I, II, III, I and II, I and III, II and III, and I and II and III. There are no separate forms (and never have been) for plurals, because number is not a mandatory grammatical category in any part of Lojban. Number is expressed, when needed, using explicit numerals (which include both precise and vague forms analogous to English &#039;some&#039;, &#039;few&#039;, &#039;too many&#039;, etc.) Honorifics were recently added to the language, using a general mechanism which may apply to any word or construct, not merely to pronouns.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. Why does Loglan treat predicate connection as primary and sentence, argument, etc. connection as secondary?&lt;br /&gt;
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Whatever may have been assumed in the past for pedagogical purposes, logical connection between sentences is basic to Lojban. All other forms of logical connection may be transformed into equivalent sentence connections.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. Why are there so many structure words, and why are many of them so similar? Wouldn&#039;t this make Loglan hard to understand at a cocktail party (or a similar noisy environment)?&lt;br /&gt;
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One of the recurrent difficulties with all forms of Loglan, including Lojban, is the tendency to fill up the available space of structure words, making words of similar function hard to distinguish in noisy environments. The phonological revisions made when Lojban split from Insti- tute Loglan allowed for many more structure words (cmavo), but once again the list has almost entirely filled.&lt;br /&gt;
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In some cases, notably the digits 0-9, an effort has been made to separate them phonologically. The vocatives (including the words used for communication protocol, e.g. over the radio) are also maximally separated phonologically. Many other function words are based on shortened forms of corresponding gismu roots, however, and are not maximally separated.&lt;br /&gt;
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A variety of ways to say &amp;quot;Huh?&amp;quot; have been added to the language, partially alleviating the difficulty. These question words can be used to specify the type of word that was expected, or the part of the relationship that was not understood by the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;restrictions on stresses and pauses results in long sequences of unstressed syllables which must be pronounced without a break&amp;quot; (Z). This makes correct speech a &amp;quot;trial for a speaker of English or Russian, and not easy even for a speaker of French&amp;quot; (Z). Natural languages often have non-significant pauses, but in Loglan every non- required pause is forbidden. Is Loglan really speakable?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban allows certain flexibilities of pause and stress in the area of structure words. By default, all structure words are unstressed. However, it is possible to set off structure words with optional pauses, and even to give them optional stress, subject to a single limitation: a structure word followed by a predicate word without pause must not be stressed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Pauses are now permitted between any two words; only within a word is pause forbidden, and most words are short. gismu and cmavo are always one or two syllables long, and many lujvo compounds are only two or three syllables.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. &amp;quot;A partial explanation for the existence of transformations is to be found in the necessity for providing speakers of any language with relatively acceptable variants of certain types of deep structures.&amp;quot; (Z) Loglan has no transformations, making some sentences expressible, but far from straightforward or easy to use. Doesn&#039;t this make Loglan harder to use than typical natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have transformations, in the sense that there are several alternative surface structures that have the same semantics and therefore, presumably, the same deep structure. What it does not have is identical surface structures with differing deep structures, so a surface- structure-only grammar is sufficient to develop an adequate parsing for every text. Knowledge of transformations is required only to get the semantics right.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. Lojban connectives cannot be used to correctly translate English &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot;, because material implication is too weak and the special causal connectives, which connect assertions, are too strong. What can be done instead?&lt;br /&gt;
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The English sentence &amp;quot;If you water it, it will grow&amp;quot; looks superficially like a Lojban &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot; connection (material implication), but it actually has causal connotations not present in &amp;quot;na.a&amp;quot;. Therefore, a proper translation must involve the notion of cause. Neither the Lojban coordinating causal conjunction nor the two cor- relative subordinating causal conjunctions (one of which subordinates the cause and the other the effect) will serve, since these require that either the cause, or the effect, or both be asserted. Instead, the correct translation of the English involves &amp;quot;cause&amp;quot; as a predicate, and might be paraphrased &amp;quot;The event of your watering it is a cause of the event of its future growing.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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14. How can Loglan logical connectives be used in imperative sentences? Logical connectives work properly only on complete sentences, and of those, only those which actually assert something.&lt;br /&gt;
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In early versions of Loglan, imperatives were marked by a predication without a subject. In Lojban, there is a special imperative pronoun &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot;. This is a second person pronoun logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;, the normal Lojban word for &#039;you&#039;, but conveying an imperative sense. Thus, an imperative can be understood as commanding the listener to make the assertion true which results when &amp;quot;ko&amp;quot; is replaced by &amp;quot;do&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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For example, &amp;quot;ko sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;Stop!&#039;) is logically equivalent to &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; (&#039;you stop&#039;), and pragmatically may be understood as &#039;Make &amp;quot;do sisti&amp;quot; true!&amp;quot;. This allows logical connection to be used in imperatives without loss of clarity or generality; the logical connection applies to the assertion which is in effect embedded in the im- perative.&lt;br /&gt;
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A minor advantage of this style of imperative is that tensed imperatives like &amp;quot;ko ba klama&amp;quot;, (&#039;Come in-the- future!&#039;) become straightforward.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. Loglan&#039;s existential (bound) variables appear to be non-standard. Brown states that the value of an existential variable is always unknown to the speaker, rather than merely being unspecified (perhaps for reasons of privacy or germaneness). Why is this? Also, why isn&#039;t quantification over predicates provided? Why are the back- counting anaphora unable to refer to existential variables?&lt;br /&gt;
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Existential variables are now interpreted in a standard way, to refer to something unspecified, or something specified by a restrictive relative clause (&amp;quot;all x such that...&amp;quot;). There are separate sets of variables for quantifying over arguments and over predicates. In general, the back-counting anaphora (which are less important in Lojban than in Loglan) are not used to refer to other anaphoric words; this makes the counting convention a bit more complex, but leads to more generally useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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16. Untensed sentences ought to be neutral with respect to tense, mood, and aspect, but Brown treats untensed sentences as expressing disposition, habit, or ability - lasting throughout all time. This is inconsistent with other parts of the language which treat ellipsized material as merely unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban tense system has been greatly elaborated and clarified with respect to its Loglan predecessor. There are now specific mechanisms for stating the potentiality or actuality of a predication; in the absence of these, a predication is neutral concerning the degree of actuality expressed by it. It is no longer true that &amp;quot;untensed&amp;quot; predicates are used to express disposition or habit. They may be so used, by ellipsis, but are in fact neutral in the absence of further evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban tense, like other incidental modifiers of a predication, tend to be contextually &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot;. When once specified in connected discourse, to whatever degree of precision seems appropriate, tense need not be respecified in each sentence. In narration, this assumption is modi- fied to the extent that each sentence is assumed to refer to a slightly later time than the previous sentence, although with explicit tense markers it is possible to tell a story in reversed or scrambled time order. Therefore, each predication does have a tense, one that is implicit if not necessarily explicit.&lt;br /&gt;
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17. The decisions about the degrees of predicates (the number of arguments expected for each) seem arbitrary. Color words are treated as relations of degree 2; weather predicates which have no real subject nevertheless need at least one argument; event predicates like &amp;quot;kiss&amp;quot; don&#039;t have an argument specifying the time. What theory underlies the choice of place structures?&lt;br /&gt;
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Very little. Place structures are empirically derived, like the root word list itself, and present a far more difficult problem; therefore, they will be standardized (if ever) only after everything else is complete. Many of the particular objections made above have force, and have already been accepted. There is no sufficiently complete and general case theory that allows the construction of a priori place structures for the large variety of predicates that exist in the real world.&lt;br /&gt;
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The current place structures of Lojban represent a three- way compromise: fewer places are easier to learn; more places make for more concision (arguments not represented in the place structure may be added, but must be marked with appropriate case tags); the presence of an argument in the place structure makes a metaphysical claim that it is required for the predication to be meaningful. This last point requires some explanation. For example, the predicate &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;come, go&amp;quot;) has five places: the actor, the destination, the origin, the route, and the means. Lojban therefore claims that anything not involving these five notions (whether specified in a particular sentence or not) is not an instance of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. The predicate &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;leave&amp;quot;) has the same places except for the destination; it is not necessary to be going anywhere in particular for &amp;quot;cliva&amp;quot; to hold. &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;travel&amp;quot;) has neither origin nor destination, merely, the actor, the route, and the means. The predicate &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;), involves only a walker and a means of walking (typically legs). One may walk without an origin or a destination (in circles, e.g.). For describing the act of walking from somewhere to somewhere, the tanru &amp;quot;cadzu klama&amp;quot; or the corresponding lujvo &amp;quot;dzukla&amp;quot; would be appropriate. The tanru &amp;quot;cadzu cliva&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cadzu litru&amp;quot; may be similarly analyzed.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. The Loglan phonological system is hard for English- speakers (to say nothing of Japanese-speakers) to use, due to the large numbers of consonant clusters and non-English diphthongs. How can a language be appropriate as an international auxiliary language when it is difficult to pronounce?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban phonology is much better than 1966 Loglan&#039;s was. There are now only 4 falling and 10 rising diphthongs, and the rising diphthongs are used only in names and in paralinguistic grunts representing emotions. All 25 vowel combinations are used, but they are separated by a voiceless vocalic glide written with an apostrophe, thus preventing diphthongization. English-speakers think of this glide as /h/, and even speakers of languages like French, which has no /h/, can manage this sound intervocalically.&lt;br /&gt;
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Consonant clusters are controlled more carefully as well. Only 48 selected clusters are permitted initially; some of these, such as &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mr&amp;quot;, do not appear in English, but are still possible to English-speakers with a bit of prac- tice. Medial consonant clusters are also restricted, to prevent mixed voiced-unvoiced clusters, consecutive stops, and other hard-to-handle combinations. The new Lojban sound /y/, IPA [@], is used to separate &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; medial clusters wherever the morphology rules would otherwise produce them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Difficulties with the variety of permitted initial sounds are overestimated. Lojban&#039;s morphology makes pronouncing these words easier than they first appear. Initial consonant clusters occur only in content words (predicates) and names. These words seldom are spoken in isolation; rather, they are expressed in a speech stream with a rhythmic stress pattern preceded (and followed) by words that end with a vowel. The unambiguous morphology allows the words to be broken apart even if run together at a very high speech rate. Meanwhile, though, the final vowel of the preceding word serves to buffer the cluster, allowing it to be pronounced as a much easier medial cluster. Thus &amp;quot;le mlatu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the cat&amp;quot;), while officially pronounced /le,MLA,tu/, can be pronounced as /lem,LA,tu/ with no confusion to the listener.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, the buffering sound, IPA [I] (the &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; of &amp;quot;English &amp;quot;bit&amp;quot;) is explicitly reserved for insertion at any point into a Lojban word where the speaker requires it for ease of pronunciation. The word &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; may be pronounced /mIlatu/ by those who cannot manage &amp;quot;ml&amp;quot;, and nothing else need be changed. This sound is &amp;quot;stripped&amp;quot; by the listener before any further linguistic processing is done.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. Loglan words resemble their English cognates, but unsystematically so. Does this really aid learning, or does it make learning more difficult?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban words are less English-like than prior versions of Loglan, since they were redone using new (1985) data on numbers of speakers. English is now less important in relative terms than Mandarin Chinese, and most Lojban words are fairly equal mixtures of the two languages, with lesser influences from Spanish, Hindi, Russian, and Arabic. The other languages used in 1966 Loglan are no longer as prominent in terms of world-wide number of speakers, and were dropped from the word-making algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no proven claim that the Lojban word-making algorithm has any meaningful correlation with learnability of the words. Brown has reported that informal &#039;engineering tests&#039; were conducted early in the Loglan Project, leading to his selection of the current algorithm, but these tests have never been documented or subjected to review. The Logical Language Group has proposed formal tests of the algorithm, and is instrumenting its software used for teaching vocabulary to allow data to be gathered that will confirm or refute Brown&#039;s hypothesis. Gathering this data may incidentally provide additional insights into the vocabulary learning process, enabling Lojban to serve the additional purpose of being a test bed for research in 2nd language acquisition.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, the word-making algorithm used for Lojban has the clear benefit of ensuring that phonemes occur in the language in rough proportion to their occurrence in the source natural languages, and in patterns and orders that are similar to those in the source languages (thus the first syllable of Lojban gismu most frequently ends in /n/, reflecting the high frequency of syllable ending /n/ in Chinese). The result is a language that is much more pleasant-sounding than, for example, randomly chosen phoneme strings, while having at least some arguable claim to being free of the European cultural bias found in the roots of most other constructed languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. Loglan has an absolutely fixed word order; in some cases, changes of word order are possible, but only by the addition of marker particles. Why is this? No natural language has an absolutely fixed word order (or for that matter, an absolutely free one).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s word order is by no means fixed. In fact, Lojban is only secondarily a &amp;quot;word order&amp;quot; language at all. Primarily, it is a particle language. Using a standard word order allows many of the particles to be &#039;elided&#039; (dropped) in common cases. However, even the standard un- marked word order is by no means fixed; the principal requirement is that at least one argument precede the predicate, but it is perfectly all right for all of the arguments to do so, leading to an SOV word order rather than the canonical SVO (subject-verb-object). VSO order is expressible using only 1 particle. In two-argument predicates, OSV, OVS, and VOS are also possible with only one particle, and various even more scrambled orders (when more than two-place predicates are involved) can also be achieved.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. Loglan does not have WH-questions of the English kind (its questions are fill-in-the-blank) and does not have relative clauses. Therefore, no &amp;quot;unbounded&amp;quot; transformations (in the technical sense) exist in the language. Sentences like &amp;quot;I met a man that John said Mary told George to visit&amp;quot; can be translated only with great pain. How can such fairly common types of constructions be represented better?&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban does have relative clauses, of the Hebrew type; the relative marker and the relative pronoun are distinct. The marker &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; for non-restrictive clauses) always comes at the beginning, but the embedded clause is in normal order, using the relative pronoun &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; at the appropriate location to represent whatever is being elaborated by the clause.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. If Loglan is to be used as an international auxiliary language, it must be culturally neutral. But many of its conceptual distinctions, for example the color set, are clearly biased towards particular languages. There is a word for &#039;brown&#039;, which is a color not used in Chinese (although a word exists, it is rare); on the other hand, there is only one word for &#039;blue&#039;, although Russian- speakers convey the range of English &#039;blue&#039; with two words. How can Loglan be prevented from splintering into dialects which differ in such points?&lt;br /&gt;
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To some extent, such splitting is inevitable and already exists in natural languages. Some English-speakers may use the color term &#039;aqua&#039; in their idiolect, whereas others lump that color with &#039;blue&#039;, and still others with &#039;green&#039;. Understanding is still possible, perhaps with some effort. The Lojban community will have to work out such problems for itself; there are sufficient clarifying mechanisms to resolve differences in idiolect or style between individuals. The unambiguous syntax and other constraints defined in the language prescription should make such dif- ferences much more easily resolvable than, say, the differences between two dialects of English.&lt;br /&gt;
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The prescriptive phase of Lojban is not intended to solve all problems (especially all semantic problems) but merely to provide enough structure to get a linguistic community started. After that, the language will be allowed to evolve naturally, and will probably creolize a bit in some cultures. (A recent discussion has pointed out that observing the creolization of such a highly prescribed constructed language will undoubtedly reveal much about the nature of the processes involved.&lt;br /&gt;
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23. Loglan is supposed to be intended as a test of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in its negative form: &amp;quot;structural features of language make a difference in our awareness of the relations between ideas&amp;quot; (Brown). Is this simply another way of saying &amp;quot;Distinctions are more likely to be noticed if structurally marked&amp;quot; (Z)? If so, this is trivially true.&lt;br /&gt;
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A better paraphrase might be &amp;quot;Unmarked features are more likely to be used, and therefore will tend to constitute the backgrounded features of the language&amp;quot;. By making the unmarked features those which are most unlike natural-lan- guage features, a new set of thought habits will be created (if Sapir-Whorf is true) which will be measurably different from those possessed by non-Lojban speakers. If Sapir- Whorf is false, which is the null hypothesis for Lojban purposes, no such distinctions in thought habits will be detectable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Further elaboration of Loglan Project thinking about Sapir-Whorf has led to another alternate formulation: &amp;quot;The constraints imposed by structural features of language impose corresponding constraints on thought patterns.&amp;quot; In attempting to achieve cultural neutrality, Lojban has been designed to minimize many structural constraints found in natural languages (such as word order, and the structural distinctions between noun, verb, and adjective). If Sapir- Whorf is true, there should be measurable broadening in thought patterns (possibly showing up as increased cre- ativity or ability to see relationships between superficially unlike concepts). Again, the null hypothesis is that no measurable distinction will exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
24. How can &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot; be measured? Measuring facility with predicate logic is not enough to establish &amp;quot;ease of thought&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps not. However, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis tends to be confirmed if experiments show that Lojban-speakers have a greater facility with predicate logic than non- Lojban-speakers. That would indicate that language (natural language) limits thought in ways that Lojban- speakers can bypass. This form of test is not free of its own difficulties, which have been discussed elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Professor Zwicky&#039;s analysis raises several points of concern to linguists who might be interested in the potential use of Lojban for linguistic research. It is believed that sufficient planning and linguistic understanding (and occasionally serendipity) has been incorporated in the Lojban language design process to meet these concerns. Other concerns no doubt exist; it is believed they can similarly be addressed, and that Lojban will prove linguistically viable, as well as useful in our attempts to understand language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, as Lojban has evolved since the 1966 version of Loglan, new features, not analyzed by Zwicky, have been added to the language, further enhancing its potential value. These features, such as Lojban&#039;s expression of the several varieties of natural language negation, the system of attitudinal words for emotional expression, and the discursives used for metalinguistic manipulation and comment on the discourse in progress, raise new questions about the adequacy of Lojban&#039;s design, while providing new opportunities for exploration of the properties of natural language, as well as the correctness of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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In 1991, it is time for linguists to again look at Lojban, with the expectation that new questions, and new respect, will be forthcoming.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== A First Cut at a Linguistic Description of Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following are some notes on Loglan/Lojban of possible interest to linguists. It is intended that this discussion is more germane to this audience than our general brochure.  We welcome questions, comments (and yes, criticisms) from the linguistic community on all aspects of the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is a public domain version of Loglan, a constructed language first invented by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1955. Dr. Brown is still working on his version of the language, which has significant flaws and remains proprietary. There is a dispute between Dr. Brown&#039;s group and ours, which has been compared to the Volapk collapse and the Esperanto/Ido split. However, the &#039;splinter&#039; in this case has survived and the Lojban community is growing at the limit of our resources to support it. We recommend that anyone familiar with Loglan but not with Lojban contact us for more detailed information on the situation and comparison between the two versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among the design criteria for Lojban has been particular attention to criticisms of the language presented by linguists over the past three decades. We believe that we have set the Loglan/ Lojban project on an academically sound footing, and are seeking continued input and review comments from linguists as we document the effort. While we are unfunded and have not yet been published in peer- reviewed journals, we expect both conditions to change. We do have linguists actively involved in the design effort itself, most notably Dr. John Parks-Clifford, a professor at University of Missouri at St. Louis researching in tense logic, among other areas, who is Vice President of our group.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language has been demonstrated in conversation, although there are no fluent speakers as of yet. My wife and I and others practice the language in spontaneous conversation perhaps 2 hours a week. Some poetry and other original writings in the language have been produced, though most work has been with translations (from English), most notably Saki&#039;s short story &#039;The Open Window&#039;, which proved especially amenable to translation and exercised areas of the language not often found in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Project was originally started to develop a language for testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. In addition to supporting this goal, Lojban is designed to support other possible experiments in linguistics, including most significantly the expression of emotions, linguistic typology, and language education techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
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With regard to Sapir-Whorf, the formulation we use is that &amp;quot;the structure of a language constrains the thought of the culture using that language&amp;quot;. This formulation relates to grammar as well as semantics, with more design effort being placed on grammatical aspects, presuming that semantics will develop with the formation of a Lojban- speaking subculture, and will, if not overtly biased, serve as one means of examining for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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The main basis for Lojban&#039;s use in Sapir-Whorf research is its grammar, which is based on logical predication. There are also explicit models for easily expressing first- order logical connectives. The strong bias towards logical structuring would be presumed to have a measurably sig- nificant effect on expression, and if our formulation of Sapir-Whorf is valid, on the culture that speaks the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language may show noticeable changes in first- generation Lojban speakers who are native in other languages (indeed, apparent effects have been observed already, though it is uncertain whether these are true Sapir-Whorf effects). A true Sapir-Whorf test will probably involve at-least-2nd generation speakers raised bilingually in Lojban and a natural language, and speakers from a variety of cultures. The need to build numbers of Lojban-speakers in many cultures has led to Loglan/Lojban&#039;s association with the international language movement, although that is not the primary purpose for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other applications, based on Lojban&#039;s unambiguous, computer-parsable syntax, heavily analytical semantics, and intended cultural neutrality, include multi-lingual machine translation using Lojban as an interlingua, use of Lojban as a medium for knowledge representation in computers, and use as a media for human-computer interface. Work in all of these areas is still at an early stage, and naturally will tend to involve different sorts of people than are interested in natural language research questions, although there may be some overlap in trying to use Lojban as a simple model for natural language processing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban&#039;s design does recognize that most natural language usage resembling logical connectives is NOT truly logical. There are grammatical models for non-logical connection built into the language, although these tend to be more highly marked than logical expressions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has systematic structures for logical negation, scalar negation, and metalinguistic negation, each separately expressed. Particular effort has gone into abstraction based on Aristotelian models, a tense/location/aspect system which can analytically express an enormous range of aspects, yet is quite unlike Indo- European forms, systems for metalinguistic expression at a different &#039;level&#039; than normal expression, and a system of analytically based attitudinal indicators (interjections) that include Amerind-like observer-based expressions, modal attitudes, and an enormous range of emotional expression, all grammatically independent from the rest of the language. Lojban also has a system for unambiguous reading of mathematical expressions, which is relatively untested since such expressions are seldom found in normal conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban attempts to achieve cultural neutrality, a necessity for its research goals. This is primarily achieved by minimizing metaphysical assumptions, and wherever assumptions must be made, to be super-inclusive of the range of natural language expressions to minimize at least overt biases. There is also particular militancy in watching for hidden Americanism and English-language biases, since most of the developers and early speakers are native speakers of American English. This is believed to have been generally successful, but is an area that we particularly welcome close cross-examination. Of course, the logical orientation of the grammar is a planned bias, sufficiently extreme that it should overwhelm minor cultural constraints that are missed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Typologically, Lojban is SVO or SOV in its unmarked forms, although all other word orders are expressible with minimal marking. This typing makes a presumption of how to interpret &#039;subject&#039; in Lojban; the Lojban &#039;subject&#039; is perhaps better considered as a &#039;topic&#039;. Lojban has no inherent gender or number, and hence no morphological de- clension or agreement. As a predicate language, Lojban has no distinction between nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, although constructs comparable to each can be identified. Tense/modality/aspect is optional, and can range from simple to enormously complex. There are op- tional &#039;case markings&#039; for the arguments of a predication, but the set of tags is not inherently limited or based on a particular theory of semantic cases. These markings occur in pre-position, but are not really &amp;quot;prepositions&amp;quot;, since they can occur in other contexts. Modification in Lojban is left-to-right, with marked reversal and grouping of modifications possible. Lojban has two modes of possessive/associative expression, both preceding and following a target argument. Postposition modification of arguments includes both relative clauses and relative phrases.&lt;br /&gt;
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While the vocabulary of predicates strictly defines arguments expressed in a prescribed order (generally forcing complex expressions to the end of a sentence along with less frequently stated information), the &#039;case tag&#039; system allows free addition of arguments to a predication, thus minimizing constraints based on the semantics of in- dividual words. Lojban has a system for explicit and implicit ellipsis, and a specified grammar for incomplete or partial sentences to support pragmatic considerations in use of the language. We are especially interested in comments regarding other issues in pragmatics.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Computer Network Discussions on Loglan/Lojban and Linguistics (and Esperanto and ...) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: The Sapir/Whorf Hypothesis&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
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jfl@munnari.oz.au (John Lenarcic)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pautler@ils.nwu.edu (David Pautler)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;minakami@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Michael K. Minakami)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;hullp@cogsci.berkeley.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dmark@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Mark)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;colin@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Colin Matheson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;wdr@wang.com (William Ricker)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. jfl: Briefly stated, the [Sapir/Whorf] hypothesis is : &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot; Language shapes the way we think, &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and determines what we can think about.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. pautler: (responding to 1.) A professor in pragmatics told me this spring that the theory only claims that a given language forces its users to mentally keep track of certain information like time-of-occurrence, etc. that is needed to make correct decisions about tense, etc. that are required to form sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dtate: (responding to 2.) I think this understates the hypothesis, at least in Whorf&#039;s version. Whorf claimed that, since we think in language, the language in which we think will have enormous impact on the ways in which we think, tending to reinforce certain patterns and undermine others. It could be something as blatant as having the word for &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; being etymologically related to that for &amp;quot;strong&amp;quot;, tending to reinforce &amp;quot;might makes right&amp;quot; thinking, or as subtle as the lack of a socially acceptable passive voice encouraging thinking of one&#039;s self as an agent and not as an object (or, of course, the converse).&lt;br /&gt;
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There is, to be sure, a &amp;quot;chicken and egg&amp;quot; question here: is it the language that shapes the culture, or the culture that shapes the language? The answer (IMHO) [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;] is &amp;quot;both&amp;quot;: the language evolves because of and in accordance with cultural forces, but after a certain point the language develops a momentum of its own, tending to carry the culture in directions already inherent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. minakami: (responding to 2.) I think this is only the weak form of the Whorfian hypothesis. The strong version does assert that the structure and lexicon of a language shapes thought. According to J. R. Anderson: &amp;quot;Whorf felt that such a rich variety of terms would cause the speaker of the language to perceive the world differently from a person who had only a single word for a particular category.&amp;quot; This stronger version of the hypothesis is generally considered disproved by Rosch&#039;s studies of color vision and similar experiments.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. rjohnson: (responding to 2.) There are various versions of the idea around, which can be attributed to von Humboldt, Sapir, Whorf, and their commentators. The idea that language &amp;quot;determines what we can think about&amp;quot; is a very strong version of the hypothesis, probably stronger than Sapir would have liked, maybe stronger than Whorf. These things were not always stated with perfect clarity and consistency, though, so it&#039;s difficult to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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[jfl&#039;s version in 1.] is a slightly odd-sounding version of Whorf&#039;s thesis. It&#039;s hard to say if it&#039;s a good rendering of Whorf into modern terms, but it feels rather reductive to me. At any rate, it&#039;s too narrow: Whorf was concerned with Hopi versus English way of thinking about time in that particular article, but the thesis in general isn&#039;t strictly limited to that. Hopi merely provided (or seemed to provide) a striking illustration of two different ways of thinking. Note that &amp;quot;ways of thinking&amp;quot; is in fact rather sloppy here: Whorf didn&#039;t actually investigate the ways Hopis think about time in any detail at all - he merely projected his feeling about the language onto their thinking. In essence, he assumed the truth of what later commentators saw as a &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot;. To Whorf, it was almost self-evident.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. pautler: (continuation of 2.) I believe the comparison S/W used to illustrate this was the bookkeeping required by a Southwest Native American language (Hopi?) regarding the source or validation of information - evidently there are markers performing the function of &amp;quot;FOAF&amp;quot;, etc. that are as necessary to well-formedness in that language (which does not mark tense) as tense is to English (which does not mark validation). Of course, the Native American language can express time-of-occurrence if need be, just as English can express source-of-information, but neither is explicitly required by the language itself. I believe the traditional example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(~11 Inuit language words for snow) and (~1 English word for snow) ==&amp;gt; (Inuit language and English users think about snow differently)&lt;br /&gt;
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might not be due to S/W and probably misrepresents their idea. But I am not a linguist, nor have I read their work. I just wanted to suggest that applications of S/W may not be what you actually want to look for.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. rjohnson: (responding to 6.) Yes. Whorf, though, not Sapir/Whorf. Whorf, though he had had some training, was basically a gifted amateur; Sapir was less inclined to make sweeping claims - he knew how language has a way of stab- bing such claims in the back.&lt;br /&gt;
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Boas, in fact, in the Introduction to the &amp;quot;Handbook of American Indian Languages&amp;quot; (1911) [introduces the &amp;quot;snow&amp;quot; example]. (At least this is the point at which it was introduced into linguistics.) Geoff Pullum has recently done a fairly comprehensive study of where this idea comes from and how it has mutated into &amp;quot;50 words for snow&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;*100* words for snow,&amp;quot; etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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I, and I think many other linguists (though not all), have a gut feeling that somewhere, somehow, deep down, there&#039;s a kernel of truth in the idea, but no attempt to frame it as an empirical hypothesis has, to my knowledge, really led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. hullp: (responding to 7.) Actually, several studies have indeed led somewhere. Casagrande&#039;s 1950&#039;s studies demonstrated a so-called Whorfian effect on children&#039;s perception of shape. The comparison was between Navaho speakers (whose language mandates the marking of shape with inflections) and English speakers. There have been a few others (not many, admittedly) that have demonstrated similar effects. The problem is that most of the tests of the hypothesis have been tests of color perception and categorization. Color perception is strongly rooted in physiology and is thus uniform across cultures to a large degree. Any language effects would have to be in a domain for which there is less evidence for a physical basis.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. dmark: (responding to 8.) In fact, Lakoff (in &amp;quot;Women, Fire, ...&amp;quot;) discusses a study by Kay and Kempton that seemed to clearly demonstrate linguistic relativity in color perception. Phillip Hull is correct in pointing out the strong physiological basis of color perception. Thus different color perception due to language seems pretty powerful evidence. (I could describe the experiment, from Lakoff&#039;s account, and/or give the full reference, if people want me to.)&lt;br /&gt;
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10. rjohnson: (responding to 8.) Thanks for this information. I guess I was using &amp;quot;led anywhere&amp;quot; in a somewhat more global sense. That is, I know there have been a smattering of studies that purport to be consistent with (&amp;quot;confirm&amp;quot; is too strong, I think) the S/W hypothesis - but it doesn&#039;t seem that any real coherent picture emerges of &amp;quot;thought&amp;quot; as a whole being strongly affected by &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; as a whole; that is, we have little evidence that &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; effects are of fundamental importance to cognition. Instead we get hints that there may be something there, but the results are mixed and often rather tentative. Does this fit with your perspective on things? (Admittedly, notions like &amp;quot;of fundamental importance&amp;quot; are pretty difficult to assess.)&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, as you say, the best-known disconfirming studies suffer from being in the relatively few areas where there probably are reliable hard-wired universals, as in Berlin and Kay&#039;s studies of color terms. In the huge gray area, evidence seems hard to come by. I was briefly involved with a cognitive science team a few years back that was grappling with some of these questions, and it seemed to me that the task of designing experiments was extraordinarily hard - every approach had serious pitfalls. I don&#039;t know how their work turned out, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. colin: (responding to 7.) I agree with your gut feeling. I suppose the trouble is, as with many Linguistic issues, that the &amp;quot;truth&amp;quot; of the matter lies at such a level of abstraction that it&#039;s difficult just to talk about it. However, here&#039;s one suggestion of one version of the thesis (count the hedges!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps it&#039;s true that the act of &amp;quot;compressing&amp;quot; abstractions into concepts represented by single lexical items or phrases has a qualitative effect on the kinds of things it is possible to talk about. Thus although it&#039;s probably the case that one can express any particular concept in any language periphrastically, it might just be that the ability to encapsulate things in immediately transferrable units affects the sorts of transfer that are possible. (Where the transfer is of information between humans.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Is this version of the Sapir/Whorf stuff part of the original, by the way?&lt;br /&gt;
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12. swsh: (responding to 11.) No, I don&#039;t think so. In my understanding, Whorf and Sapir were not interested so much in what &amp;quot;one can express&amp;quot; in a given language, as in the conceptual categories which underlie grammatical ones and which are used by speakers as a guide to experience. Thus, the important thing in their view is not how many words for snow a language has, but what assumptions about things like space, time, form, substance, etc., are implicit in the language&#039;s grammatical categories. The controversial part about what they, particularly Whorf, said is the thesis that speakers use these assumptions to guide their habitual beliefs and attitudes, and therefore see them as arising directly from reality, rather than projected on to it.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;Whorfian hypothesis&amp;quot; is often stated as having two forms, a &amp;quot;hard&amp;quot; version (language determines thought) and a &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; version (language and thought are kinda sorta related). From Whorf&#039;s writings, it appears that he himself held views more towards the &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; end of the spec- trum. He shied away from saying there is a &amp;quot;correlation&amp;quot;, that being too definite a word, preferring to say that it could be shown that there are cases where linguistic categories are in some way connected to cultural ones, even if it&#039;s not universally true. However, it seems to me that it would be mighty odd to find a language whose grammar revealed a categorical system that was otherwise unused by speakers, either in individual cognition, or as part of the attendant culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. wdr: (responding to 11.) If I understood that periphrastic version of the hypothesis, I think it has as a corollary that English is not highly suited to it&#039;s own transfer. Which, given the context, I suspect may have been Colin&#039;s point, but if it wasn&#039;t, I&#039;ll suggest it more openly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is a natural language the right language in which to discuss the deficiencies of natural languages?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That it was not was one of the original motivations of the Loglan/Lojban successor of Esperanto. Can one of you sci.lang folks translate the S/W hypotheses various statements in this newsgroup lately into Lojban and give us an unbiased account of how manipulable they are in a non- formal yet unnatural language? [ed.: no one has done this yet - any volunteers?]&lt;br /&gt;
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14. pautler: (wrapping up) Perhaps many of you are tiring of the discussion about the claims made by S/W, but I&#039;m going to take the risk of extending the debate:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does the S/W hypothesis suggest that we view a particular language as a collection of tools used to achieve social (communicative, in particular) goals? The analogy I have in mind is this: our ability to achieve tasks is determined by the tools we have at hand, which forces us to think about solving the task primarily in terms of what subtask each tool can achieve. Of course, we can always attempt to invent new tools if they are needed, but invention is difficult for both language conventions and tools, so the analogy still holds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My claim, then, is this: if this is an accurate analogy, then should the S/W hypothesis be any more surprising than a claim that farmers and stockbrokers think differently about the world due to the different means they have of interacting with it?&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Lojban as seen by the linguistics and cognitive science community&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
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dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kimba@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Michael Newton)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;harold@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Harold Somers)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;aronsson@lysator.liu.se (Lars Aronsson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lgorbet@hydra.unm.edu (Larry P Gorbet)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daryl@oravax.UUCP (Steven Daryl McCullough)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lee@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Greg Lee)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: (starting the debate - several paragraphs below elucidate his opinions further) I have been acquainted with Lojban for a few years now, and have a few thoughts on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My overall impression is that a monumental effort is being made by an astonishingly large group of people, and that while it is quite well-intentioned, its ultimate goals are unattainable at best, and highly suspicious at worst. Some minor and major objections:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One: The audio-visual isomorphism. Presumably, this is an attempt to address the rather poor way that some written languages reflect the spoken language (such as English). This fails to predict variations of accent, as well as the language-specific biases of speakers - English speakers for instance will probably continue to mark yes-no questions with a rising tone. Of course this isn&#039;t indicated in the written form, so already the idea of audio-visual isomorphism is weak at best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. lojbab: (responding to 1.) Yes, English speakers probably will. But Hindi speakers probably won&#039;t. Thus rising tone (pitch) will not be a significant indication in&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban. Now, in the English &#039;dialect&#039; of Lojban, such suprasegmentals will probably be redundant and reinforcing information to the truly significant version of the questioned contained in the words. And if for some other reason, your voice rises in pitch, if there is no &#039;xu&#039;, it is not a yes/no question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As an advantage, I suspect that it will be a lot easier to get computers voice-processing the Lojban phonemes than the English suprasegmentals (Anyone have any actual knowledge on this?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. dan: (continuation of 1.) Furthermore, the idea of a language that assumes all of its speakers will have precisely the same accent is too terrifying to contemplate, yet Lojban&#039;s writing system would seem to depend on this fact.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. lojbab: (responding to 3.) Lojban&#039;s prescription says nothing about &#039;accent&#039;. Each of the sounds we&#039;ve defined as phonemic has a certain range wherein it is phonemic. Lojban &#039;r&#039; can range from a full trill to a simple flap, for example, and we&#039;ve made no prescription regarding dark &#039;l&#039; vs. light &#039;l&#039;. Difference in these phonemes will result in different &#039;accents&#039;. There will probably be less spread than most natural languages, but there will be some spread.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. cowan: (responding to 3.) Of course [it&#039;s too terrifying to contemplate]! However, this neglects the distinction between &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;etic&amp;quot; features of the language. The claim of audio-visual isomorphism is not that every possible distinction of speech is represented in the written form, but only that all significant distinc- tions are so represented. For example, true-false questions may be signalled (among English speakers) with a rising tone, but also must be signalled with the prefix word &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; carries the entire content, and will be understood by any fluent Lojbanist from whatever back- ground. The tone is superfluous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. dan: (responding to 5.) If every Lojban speaker were a native English speaker, you could just as easily argue that the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; is superfluous. But this is circular reasoning. Is the purpose of Lojban to be spoken in a dull monotone? Or do you expect the writing system to evolve to account for any variations in tone that might come along? Suppose some third-generation Lojban speakers always mark yes-no questions with a falling tone accompanied by a series of elaborate hand-jives (gestures are expressive too), will you mark this in the written version as well? How do you determine what a &amp;quot;significant&amp;quot; feature of the language is? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. cowan: (responding to 6.) We determine significant features by defining them. Again, this is a constructed language, and a posteriori reasoning appropriate to natural (non-constructed) languages doesn&#039;t necessarily fit all cases.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the baseline version of Lojban, the way of marking a true-false question is to prefix it with &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot;. This is true by definition, a priori. Once the language is baselined, the normal processes of linguistic change may indeed alter the marking system to something involving tone, gesture, or toe-wiggling. At that time, Lojban will be a natural language (defined here as one having native speakers) and will need to be investigated by the methods of ordinary synchronic linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(When Bob LeChevalier, the most fluent speaker at present, speaks in the language, he does tend to talk in a monotone, possibly bending over backwards to avoid influence from English suprasegmentals. He does hesitate longer between sentences than at other mandatory pauses, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. lojbab: (responding to 6.) That would be a truly odd purpose for a language - to be spoken in a monotone. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The writing system would not need recognize variations in pitch, gestures, or any other feature of spoken language unless these came to convey variations in meaning that were not already reflected (and reflectable) in the written lan- guage. In addition, since human-computer interaction using Lojban is intended to be significant in its usefulness, it seems unlikely that there will evolve variations that cannot be easily recognized AND reproduced by a computer listener/speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A significant feature of a logical language, of course, is one that affects the truth conditions of its statements. A change or variation in the language would not be &#039;significant&#039; unless it affected such truth conditions. A change which introduced ambiguity would obviously be significant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. cowan: (continuation of 5.) Note also that audio-visual isomorphism cuts both ways. It ensures not only that every &amp;quot;emic&amp;quot; feature of speech is representable in writing, but also that features of text such as paragraphing, structural punctuation, parenthesis, and layout have representations in speech. For example, the word &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot; signals a change of subject and is used to separate spoken paragraphs; likewise, non-mathematical parentheses are pronounced &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;(&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;)&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. dan: (continuation of 1., from 3.) TWO: Sapir/Whorf is tacitly assumed by almost everyone that I&#039;ve talked to in connection to Lojban. This isn&#039;t unusual, since it&#039;s also assumed by an astonishing portion of the world at large. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. cowan: (responding to 10.) The Lojban project is founded on assuming the truth of SWH; the falsity of SWH is the null hypothesis. To develop Lojban at all, we must assume SWH. If Lojban turns out to have no effect on thought, i.e. to be a mere code, SWH will not be confirmed. (This is not to say it will be disproved.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. lojbab: (responding to 10.) Assumed to be what? True? No. Important enough to test? Yes. If Sapir-Whorf is important enough to test, then Lojban must be designed with features that will likely have a noticeable effect, while being sufficiently culturally neutral that non-Lojban variables can be at least statistically removed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban design HAS to assume that Sapir-Whorf is true, or that design will be meaningless for experimental purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As to whether those working on the language &#039;tacitly assume&#039; Sapir-Whorf, I doubt it. There are no doubt many who believe SWH true, and a couple I know of who believe it false, but are willing to see. Most are fairly open- minded. In any case, if we are being &#039;good scientists&#039;, our individual opinions on the hypotheses we investigate shouldn&#039;t matter, since some degree of professional detachment is expected. When I work on Lojban as a researcher, I try to turn off that part of me that does &#039;Lojban promotion&#039; (admittedly a bit more biased). I rely on peer review to catch any biases from my personal views that slip into my work. Given the wide disparity of views among Lojban workers, and our sensitivity towards avoiding unnecessary bias, I&#039;m confident that there is no problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Sapir-Whorf (or its equivalent - since a lot of people assume it without even knowing it exists) is tacitly assumed by the world, it seems an especially important question to investigate scientifically. If SWH is used by some to justify racism, some concrete data to attack such use is more effective than personal distaste. Just because a scientific question has political ramifications based on its possible outcomes does not mean that the question shouldn&#039;t be asked, or moreover, shouldn&#039;t be answered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. dan: (responding to 12.) Yes, I&#039;d say that a surprisingly large number of people when informed about S/W will automatically assume it to be true. The issue to me is one of putting the cart before the horse: to whit, many people have astonishingly racist attitudes about a wide range of phenomena. Language is no exception. If you read the literature of the whole English First movement, one sees thinly veiled racism of the worst sort. Also witness the thinly veiled classism of most of the prescriptivists - the goal is to avoid sounding &amp;quot;low class&amp;quot;. Even something as simple as differing accents within a homogeneous speech community can cause people to raise their eyebrows. Human beings seem to have an overwhelming urge to pigeonhole people by any method possible. What does this have to do with S/W? Well, given that nobody seems particularly satisfied either way with the results of actual psy- cholinguistic tests that have been tried, if someone believes S/W then they can choose to ignore any test results that seem to go against it and start to make some pretty frightening statements.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. dan: (continuation of 1., from 10.) What I&#039;m getting at is that there is a serious danger that people who believe in the S/W hypothesis will use this belief to make claims about their language being superior to someone else&#039;s. The empirical basis for these claims has already been discussed, so I won&#039;t get into it, except to say that I remain unconvinced by the S/W hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15. cowan: (responding to 10 and 14.) One of the major workers in Lojban [ed.: pc] believes that SWH is in fact false. There is as diverse a variety of views on SWH in the Lojban community as on any other subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16. lojbab: (responding to 14.) Yes, there is [a serious danger]. But there is also the chance that if SWH is true, that the reverse will happen. Based on the natural selection paradigm (also perhaps questionable with regard to languages - but the analogy is useful), if one language is &#039;superior&#039; to another in some small area (such as mathematical thinking - as in the previous example), the fact that the other language survives indicates that it also has some compensating advantages that suit its niche.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus Sapir-Whorf might help us see the virtue in all languages and cultures. I certainly don&#039;t think that if Lojban was proved able to assist or improve logical thinking, that it should displace English or any other language. To borrow someone else&#039;s line, Lojban becomes another tool in the linguistic tool chest. You learn it like an English speaker learns French or FORTRAN, to meet a communication need that is not well served by English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
17. dan: (responding to 16.) I am told that among anthropologists, S/W in some form, is popular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
18. lojbab: (responding to 17.) Indeed. I know that in the Loglan/Lojban community, Reed Riner at Northern Arizona and John Atkins and Carol Eastman at Washington are anthropologists that were/are interested in S/W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, there is another &#039;related field&#039; that makes heavy use of S/W, either directly, or in an evolved form. Semiotics apparently uses a lot of ideas these days that at least tacitly assume some degree of cultural relativity, and I&#039;m told Umberto Eco, is particularly &#039;Whorfian&#039; in his ideas. I don&#039;t know these things directly, having no meaningful exposure to semiotics. My source is Robert Gorsch at St. Mary&#039;s College in CA, who teaches En- glish/Semiotics/Linguistics there. He&#039;s been developing an introductory course in Semiotics showing the evolution of S/W into current semiotics theories (incidentally relying on Esperanto and Lojban as primary examples). We published his course outline and bibliography in a recent issue of our internal journal, Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
19. dan: (responding to 18.) Eco is interested in a number of theories that are out of vogue among Chomskian linguists. He also seems to have an interest in the so- called &amp;quot;meaning-based&amp;quot; theories of language, posited by people like Schank, in the NLP [natural language processing] community. He devotes some space to Schank&#039;s theory of conceptual dependency in several books (titles forgotten ...sorry!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many of fields related and unrelated to semiotics also make use of certain Whorfian arguments. Some feminist theorists have an axe to grind about how language is used to oppress women.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
20. dan: (continuing 17.) To me, the idea of linguistic equality - that all languages are more or less created equal, is a much more egalitarian view. It jibes well with my notion that all people are created equal. This principle forms the basis for much in the way of my political views. I don&#039;t want to get into a debate here about the politics of language, but it&#039;s something I feel very strongly about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
21. lgorbet: (responding to 20.) The phrase in Dan&#039;s recent posts that confuses me a lot is &amp;quot;all languages are equal&amp;quot;. So far as I can see that may well - probably has nothing to do with whether (some version or other of) S/W is true or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect the most common belief of linguists who think about S/W at all is that (a) S/W is true; and (b) all languages are &amp;quot;equal&amp;quot;. AND you seem to be assuming that the truth of S/W entails inequality (in some unstated sense) of languages. All S/W says, even in the strongest versions I know anyone competent who believes, is that lan- guages are different in ways that leads their speakers to tend to think differently.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks to work by lots of folk over the past half century (oops, more than that), it&#039;s pretty clear that different languages have lots in common as well as some striking differences. So probably most of us (my wild supposition, I admit) think that the impact of a true S/W would not be all that huge a difference. But a difference in conceptualization and knowledge is not the same thing as inequality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It almost seems to me that to assume that different ways of thinking are unequal ways of thinking plays into the hands of racists even more...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is NOT a flame. You raise some important issues, many of which I agree with, especially about the ways our work can get abused by those with an unsavory agenda.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The discussion of Sapir-Whorf and its possible racist use continued for quite a while, and is omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
22. dan (continuation of 1., from 14.): This empirical basis is something that I use as a foundation for my personal ideological beliefs with regard to such issues as English-only laws and prescriptivism (by the likes of Safire, Lederle, Simon et al.). It seems to me that the Lojbanists, who are already claiming that the language makes them think more clearly on certain things are setting themselves up for a type of elitism that I find frightening.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THREE: Lojban&#039;s allegedly unambiguous syntax. The bottom line is that &amp;quot;plastic cat food can cover&amp;quot; is still ambiguous in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
23. cowan: (responding to 22.) This English utterance is ambiguous in three different ways. Syntactically, it might be a noun phrase (a kind of cover) or a sentence (asserting that plastic cat food is capable of covering something). Lojban does not have this kind of ambiguity: the first would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; and the second would be &amp;quot;lo slasi mlatu cidja ka&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
24. harold: (responding to 23.) Well, I think you&#039;ll find that syntactically the phrase is MUCH more ambiguous: as a noun phrase, ignoring the semantic ambiguity of any noun+noun pairing (e.g. &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; = food for cats, food made of cats, food which looks like a cat; &amp;quot;can cover&amp;quot; = cover for a can, cover made out of a can; &amp;quot;plastic cat&amp;quot; = cat made out of plastic, cat which behaves like plastic, cat which belongs to plastic, etc) it has readings [numbers added for later cross-reference]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for plastic cat food cans i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover for cans which contain plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
1 a cover for cans which contain food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
2 a cover for cans which contain plastic food for cats or&lt;br /&gt;
3 a cover for plastic cans which contain cat food or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a can cover for plastic cat food i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
4 a can cover for food for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
5 a can cover for plastic food for cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a food can cover for plastic cats i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
6 a cover for a food can for plastic cats or&lt;br /&gt;
7 a can cover for food for plastic cats or else &lt;br /&gt;
  a cat food can cover made of plastic i.e. &lt;br /&gt;
  a cover, made of plastic, for cat food cans i.e.&lt;br /&gt;
8 a cover, made of plastic, for cans for cat food or&lt;br /&gt;
9 a cover, made of plastic, for food cans for cats&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Let me render each of these forms into Lojban. As a glossary, slasi &#039;plastic&#039;, mlatu &#039;cat&#039;, cidja &#039;food&#039;, lante &#039;can&#039;, and gacri &#039;cover&#039; take care of all the content words, each of which (luckily for me) has a single-word Lojban equivalent. I will comment on the function words I use as I use them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It should be stated from the start that Lojban interprets dyadic compounds as &amp;lt;modifier&amp;gt; followed by &amp;lt;modificand&amp;gt;, in other words AN [adjective-noun order], although this can be changed with the particle &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[numbers relate back to English in 24.]&lt;br /&gt;
1) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. This form is totally unmarked, and has the meaning of the English 1) because Lojban associates left-to-right. In other words, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
2) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. The function word &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; causes the two content words surrounding it to be most closely associated. So &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;cidja&amp;quot;. Otherwise, left-to-right modification remains intact, so that &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
3) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here we make two coordinated claims about the &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot;, namely that it is of type &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; (a cat-food can) and that it is &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot; (plastic). So we insert the particle &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; which means this type of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;. (There are several Lojban words for &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is the one that&#039;s grammatical in this context).&lt;br /&gt;
4) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;lante&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;gacri&amp;quot; are grouped, so that &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (food for plastic cats) modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot; (can-type-of cover).&lt;br /&gt;
5) &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Here we have three components grouped in left-to-right order: &amp;quot;slasi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;. Therefore &amp;quot;slasi mlatu bo cidja&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, making this a plastic cat-food type of can-cover.&lt;br /&gt;
6) &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here again we have three components, but different ones from those appearing in 5).&lt;br /&gt;
8) &amp;quot;slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;. Here we introduce the new particles &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot;. These group in the same way that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; does, but everything between &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; is grouped. Wherever &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears between two words, it can be replaced by &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; before the first and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; after the second. So 4) can be rewritten as &amp;quot;slasi mlatu cidja ke lante gacri&amp;quot;, with elision of &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at the end of the phrase. This is an example of a general point about Lojban: most things are expressible using both &amp;quot;forethought&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;afterthought&amp;quot; forms, comparable to the difference in English between &amp;quot;both A and B&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;A and B&amp;quot;. In this case, we need the whole of &amp;quot;mlatu cidja lante&amp;quot; to group as one modifier, so &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not usable. We also need &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; because again two claims are being made, that the cover is both plastic and for cat-food cans.&lt;br /&gt;
9) &amp;quot;slasi je mlatu bo cidja bo lante gacri&amp;quot;. Here &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; serves us again, in contradistinction to 8), because of an additional rule that comes into play when &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; appears on both sides of an element: it is right-grouping. So whereas &amp;quot;A B C&amp;quot; means that &amp;quot;A B&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;C&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;A bo B bo C&amp;quot; means that A modifies &amp;quot;B bo C&amp;quot;. So here we claim that the cover is both plastic and is of type &amp;quot;cat food-can&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are other ways to express these ideas if the constraint on ordering the content words is relaxed. There are also lots of other possibilities expressible by the Lojban syntax, such as &amp;quot;slasi bo mlatu bo cidja bo lante bo gacri&amp;quot;, which might be a plastic type of food-can cover for use by cats. In addition, &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; (and) can be replaced by &amp;quot;ja&amp;quot; (inclusive or) or &amp;quot;jonai&amp;quot; (exclusive or) or any of the other Boolean relationship, or by various non-logical connectives such as &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; (mass mixture): &amp;quot;slasi joi mlatu cidja&amp;quot; would be food made from plastic and from cats [mixed together].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
26. cowan: (continuing 23.) In the English utterance, it is unclear exactly what modifies what.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
27. harold: (responding to 26., continuing 24.) I don&#039;t think so. Of the above interpretations, there is a more or less clear ranking of preference, notwithstanding some context which promotes an unusual reading (e.g. a story about plastic cats): I find (8) the most plausible, with (3) next best. The least plausible are the ones involving plastic cats or plastic food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
28. cowan: (continuing 23., from 26.) So Lojban&#039;s unmarked form is grouped left-to-right unambiguously, and other groupings can be unambiguously marked by the insertion of appropriate structure words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
29. harold: (responding to 28., continuing 27.) It is relatively easy to construct plausible noun phrases consisting of five consecutive nouns for all the above patterns, just by substituting more appropriate nouns: e.g.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  1 tabby cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  2 soya-bean cat food can cover&lt;br /&gt;
  3 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
  4 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  5 =2&lt;br /&gt;
  6 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  7 =1&lt;br /&gt;
  8 (preferred reading)&lt;br /&gt;
  9 (already plausible)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And of course, we can construct longer sequences of noun phrases, with even larger numbers of ambiguities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can Lojban handle all of these, and, more important, would we want a language to do so? The point is that most of the readings are implausible for semantic reasons, but all (or most) groupings are possible, given the appropriate words. The same thing happens with PP attachment by the way. The problem is that you cannot tell a priori which grouping will be plausible: NLP [natural language processing] programs have to try all possible groupings and then test them for semantic coherence, a terrible waste of effort with big noun phrases or sequences of ambiguous words like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gas pump prices rose last time oil stocks fell&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
in each word is at least two-ways ambiguous (all are both nouns and verbs, and some are also adjectives).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
30. aronsson: (responding to 28.) What if the intended grouping was &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can)) type of cover&amp;quot;? That is a plastic cover for these cans (which are probably made of tin - I would consider this more probable) rather than a generic cover for these plastic cans. Would the sentence still translate into &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu bo cidja lante gacri&amp;quot;? Could the same sentence also mean &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot;? (Never mind why anybody would make plastic food - that is semantics!) If any of the above, Lojban must be considered ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
31. cowan: (responding to 30.) No. &amp;quot;(plastic and ((cat type of food) type of can) type of cover&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je ke mlatu cidja lante ke&#039;e gacri&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; are logical parentheses. &amp;quot;(((plastic and cat) type of food) type of can) type of cover)&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;lo slasi je mlatu cidja lante gacri&amp;quot; because &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; has higher precedence than concatenation, though lower than &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
32. aronsson: (continuing 30.) Or what if both modifiers have a more complex form? In the example above, the modifier plastic has the simplest possible form, but consider a phrase like (I wrote this with Emacs LISP mode!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
 ((some-special type of plastic)                           &lt;br /&gt;
  and                                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  (((cat or	dog)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
    type of	food)                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      type of can))                                        &lt;br /&gt;
type of cover                                              &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, parenthesis are needed not only for the general grouping, but also to unambiguously determine the precedence of &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot;! IMHO [Net abbreviation: &amp;quot;In my humble opinion&amp;quot;], there are exactly two ways of designing a ambiguous-free language, none of which will make it look like any human language: 1) Using parenthesis as in LISP [see examples above] and 2) Using only very short sentences as in ordinary computer machine language. In case 2, the example would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Cover.                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  for      can.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Can    for      food.                                    &lt;br /&gt;
  Food   for      cat.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
  Cover  made of  plastic.                                 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
33. cowan: (responding to 32.) The first method (parenthesis) is employed, using &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; parenthesis marks as needed. This is not supposed to &amp;quot;look like any natural language&amp;quot;; this is precisely the area where Lojban differs from all natural languages, and constitutes the evidence that Lojban is not an &amp;quot;{English, Chinese, etc.}- based code&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;And&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot; have the same precedence and are left associative; simple concatenation is also left associative, whereas &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; (which semantically is the same as concatenation, i.e. undefined) is high-precedence and right associative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
34. cowan: (continuing 23., from 28.) On a third level, a phrase like &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; is ambiguous semantically. Is it food for cats or food consisting of cats? Here Lojban really is ambiguous, but the ambiguity is semantic not syntactic. The three main kinds of ambiguity in Lojban (this kind, ellipsis, and the ambiguity of names (which Sam?)) are all semantic in nature. As in any natural language, any of these ambiguities can be &amp;quot;expanded&amp;quot; on the semantic level by adding more information: &amp;quot;lo mlatu cidja&amp;quot; (a cat type of food) could become &amp;quot;da poi cidja loi mlatu&amp;quot; (something which is-food-for the-mass-of cats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
35. dan: (responding to 34.) Semantic ambiguity is present all over the place. How does Lojban handle issues like quantifier scope ambiguity? In English, a sentence like &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; is ambiguous. If Lojban merely paraphrases such utterances, to two separate utterances along the lines of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;For all x, There exists a y such that x loves y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;There exists a y for all x such that x loves y&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
while tolerating some version of the original utterance, than nothing has been accomplished. I can do the same thing in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
36. cowan: (responding to 35.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Lojban has mechanisms for setting quantifier scopes, involving explicit quantifiers appearing in a prenex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Loglan/Lojban has never claimed to be free of semantic ambiguity. Your original objection 3 [see 22. above] (refers to &amp;quot;allegedly unambiguous syntax&amp;quot;, but on investigation your objections are to semantic rather than syntactic ambiguity. Our claims are: a) Lojban is free of phonological, morphological, and syntactic ambiguity, and b) Lojban semantic ambiguity is present only in clearly marked places within the language: a Lojbanist knows when he/she is using an ambiguous form, and can replace it as needed with unambiguous ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
37. lojbab: (responding to 35.) I disagree [with dan]. For one thing, if Lojban can express the multiple meanings better and more clearly than English, and if the expressions can be more easily manipulated logically, this would presumably &#039;enhance logical thinking&#039; if SWH is true.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban doesn&#039;t &#039;tolerate some version of the original&#039; in the sense that the parallel translation to &amp;quot;Every man loves a fish&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot; is not equivalent to both English paraphrases. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
38. dan: (responding to 37.) So what&#039;s the gloss of the Lojban sentence? Which reading does it correspond to? Is there a quick and easy way to disambiguate?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
39. cowan: (responding to 38.) The Lojban rule is that quantifiers are applied in the order in which they appear in the sentence, so &amp;quot;ro nanmu cu prami pa finpe&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all man love one fish&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;For all men X, there exists one fish Y, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; The other interpretation could be given by &amp;quot;converting&amp;quot; the predicate with the particle &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. This operation reverses the order of the arguments to a predicate. &amp;quot;pa finpe se prami ro nanmu&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one fish be-loved-by all man&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;There exists one fish Y, for all men X, such that X loves Y.&amp;quot; Note that conversion is analogous to the passive voice but has no semantic significance other than this inversion of quantifiers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has machinery for expressing the quantifiers externally in a prenex, terminated by the word &amp;quot;zo&#039;u&amp;quot;. So another set of Lojban paraphrases for your sentences above is &amp;quot;ro da poi nanmu pa de poi finpe zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;all X which is-a-man, one Y which is-a-fish, X loves Y&amp;quot;; and &amp;quot;pa de poi finpe ro da poi nanmu zo&#039;u da prami de&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;one Y which is-a-fish, all X which is-a-man, X loves Y&amp;quot;. Presumably, a transformational grammar of Lojban would derive both of these surface structures (with and without prenex) from the same underlying deep structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What Lojban does not have is any sentence which means both of your two forms ambiguously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
40. lojbab: (continuation of 37, in response to 35.) You cannot &#039;do the same thing in English&#039;. Even if the two English paraphrases are considered &#039;standard English&#039; (and many linguists do not, identifying them as a jargon), neither is the same as Dan&#039;s original. Fill in &#039;man&#039; for &#039;x&#039; and &#039;fish&#039; for &#039;y&#039;, and the result is ungrammatical:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;For all man, there exists a fish such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;There exists a fish for all man such that man loves fish.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It takes some extensive manipulations to turn these into grammatical sentences, and the results are not &#039;obviously&#039; the same as the English original. These same manipulations do not suffice for all possible substitutions: if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;fish&#039;, or if &#039;x&#039; is &#039;George&#039; and &#039;y&#039; is &#039;Mary&#039;, you have to perform different transforms. In Lojban, the transforms are independent of the value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
41. aronsson: (responding to 34.) I fail to see the difference. When designing an artificial language one could outlaw all use of modifiers without modifier indicators (prepositions or similar). Thus it would have been possible for the Lojban designers to make &amp;quot;cat food&amp;quot; illegal, only allowing &amp;quot;food for cats&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;food made-of cats&amp;quot;. If they did not do this, they obviously failed to design an ambiguity-free language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
42. cowan: (responding to 41.) We didn&#039;t want to make the language semantically unambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) The language is phonologically, morphologically, and syntactically unambiguous; and&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) the language is semantically ambiguous only in specified areas, of which this is one (making open com- pounds by concatenation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
43. dan: (continuation of 1., from 22.) Natural languages are not unambiguous. From the acquisition side, ambiguous languages are much easier to learn for a child than a logical language would be. The principles of Universal Grammar [UG] do not seem to produce unambiguous languages, and all natural languages are constructed according to the principles of UG.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
44. cowan: (responding to 43.) A lot of unproven assumptions here. Common assumptions, yes, but still unproven. We simply don&#039;t know whether a child could become competent in Lojban. Maybe when the language is complete and documented, somebody will be inspired to start raising bilingual children. There are native speakers of Esperanto, after all, whose parents have no other language in common. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
45. kimba: (responding to 43.) If you&#039;re going to get stuck into people for assuming Sapir/ Whorf, I think you had better not be so blase about assuming the existence of &amp;quot;the principles of UG&amp;quot;. The way you throw it in &amp;quot;jargonwise&amp;quot; I assume you mean the Chomskian notion, which will meet with plenty of disagreement. I suppose you could claim to mean any statements about properties which all/no languages have, but then the 2nd clause is vacuous. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
46. dan: (responding to 45.) I do tacitly assume UG. To me, it seems a whole lot easier to swallow than SW, or other theories of linguistic relativism. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
47. dtate: (responding to 46.) What a strange comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as I can tell, UG (as a hypothesis about language) and SW (as a hypothesis about language and thought) are independent. Buying into UG wouldn&#039;t make me more or less apt to buy into S/W, nor vice versa. They&#039;re certainly not competing theories. They address totally different topics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think the giveaway here is the phrase &amp;quot;linguistic relativism&amp;quot;. I can&#039;t tell from context exactly what Dan means by this. It looks like the link is something like &amp;quot;S/W says that how you think is influenced by what language you think in; UG says there&#039;s an underlying deep structure common to all languages; conflict&amp;quot;. But of course there is no conflict; every language has its own grammatical and etymological idiosyncrasies, whether deep structure exists or not, and these idiosyncrasies are the fuel for S/W. The existence of deep structure cannot refute the fact that languages differ in significant ways, any more than a proof of S/W would disprove the existence of deep structure common to all languages. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
48. lojbab: (responding to 43.) Whether UG is &#039;real&#039;, a question better discussed by others, I know of no useful evidence for the claim [that UG forbids unambiguous languages]. That there is no unambiguous language today is irrelevant, since nearly all languages evolved from some earlier language, interacting with other languages, etc. Most sources of ambiguity probably can be tied to these evolutionary processes. Lojban might also succumb to such ambiguity, but as an a priori language constructed after the printing press, having (unlike other languages) a complete prescription it has a lot better likelihood of re- sistance to &#039;undesirable&#039; change. There is no way to tell if the misuse of &#039;hopefully&#039; or split infinitives would have entered English if a) there had not already been a tolerance in English for non-standard usages of this type and b) either of these truly resulted in mis-communication. Note that &#039;misplaced modifiers&#039;, which can in some instances cause miscommunication, are a different question, and are probably frowned on by most speakers IF they become aware of the ambiguity. In Lojban, of course, the speaker WILL be more aware of the ambiguity - at least so we hope.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
49. dan: (continuation of 1., from 43.) In the unlikely event that a native Lojban speaker ever exists, it will probably actually be speaking its parent native language with some version of Lojban vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
50. cowan: (responding to 49.) I presume you mean &amp;quot;parents&#039; native language&amp;quot;. As I mentioned above, its parents might not have the same native language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
51. dan: (continuation of 1., from 49.) But even that is unlikely since even the phonology (like everything else in the language) is arbitrary, and it is questionable how easy it would be for a child to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52. rjohnson: (responding to 51.) Isn&#039;t the phonology of any language arbitrary in this sense? No language avails itself of all the possibilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
53. dan: (responding to 52.) Yes, but certain combinations are unlikely to occur.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
54. cowan: (responding to 53.) I don&#039;t understand this claim. The phonology is the least arbitrary thing about the language. Lojban has six vowels and 18 consonants, all of which are exceedingly familiar and found in many languages world-wide: German, for example, has all of them (although Lojban &#039;j&#039; is rare in German and found mostly in borrowings from French). On the suprasegmental level, Lojban has two levels of stress (primary and weak) and significant pauses; where &amp;quot;pause&amp;quot; may represent either a complete silence or a glottal stop. Tone is not signifi- cant, as mentioned above. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
55. dan: (responding to 54.) See what I mean about arbitrary? The Lojban engineers have decided that tone isn&#039;t important and that pauses are the same as glottal stops. This is lunacy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
56. rjohnson: (responding to 54. and 55, also 1.-8.) By the way, both of you [cowan and dan] are abusing the term &amp;quot;tone&amp;quot;. You&#039;re talking about pitch. Tone, by definition, involves significant pitch contrasts. You can&#039;t have tone be unimportant in a language. If morphemes are systemati- cally contrastive in pitch, the language has tone; if not, there is no tone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
57. dan: (responding to 56.) Guilty as charged. Sorry about that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
58. cowan: (responding to 56.) Thanks for this correction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
59. cowan: (responding to 55.) Of course it&#039;s arbitrary in the sense that we select some features of the total human phonological repertoire and not others, but so does every natural language. The phonemes we use are found in many natural languages, and there exists at least one natural language (viz. German) that contains all of them. The consonant clusters and diphthongs we use are also all to be found in natural languages. We go to some pains to prevent&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
difficult clusters like *td or *fz; we also limit which consonant clusters can be used initially to a subset.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pauses and glottal stops are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in Lojban in the sense that they are allophones. In German, the phones [r] and [R] are the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; in exactly the same sense: they are allophones of /r/ in free variation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
60. lojbab: (responding to 55.) Tone is reflected poorly or not-at-all in writing systems of the world, as is pitch and speech rhythm. Audio-visual isomorphism therefore precluded these being critical to disambiguation and we chose better ways to convey the equivalent meanings. In each case where we did so, a similar mechanism is found in some natural languages. For example, in French &amp;quot;est-ce que&amp;quot; almost exactly parallels Lojban &#039;xu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
61. dan: (responding to 60.) Which is one of the many reasons that linguists concentrate on spoken language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
62. lojbab: (continuation of 60.) Pause in Lojban is used only to preserve morphological distinctions. For example, you must pause before a [word-initial] vowel to protect against it being absorbed into the previous word either as a final vowel in a consonant-final word or as a diphthong. A glottal stop provides similar separation of sounds; hence it is phonemically equivalent to a pause.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In neither case was the decision arbitrary; we had a good reason for each. This is in general true throughout Lojban - a decision to choose one form over many was primarily to achieve unambiguity. In other circumstances, we chose the least restrictive form possible (thus making tense, number, gender, etc. optional and hence more highly marked forms).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
63. dan: (continuation of 1., from 51.) In typically blundering fashion, the Lojban engineers have ignored this issue, concentrating entirely on the learnability issue for SECOND language acquisition, that is, adults learning a second language, with no native competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
64. cowan: (responding to 63.) (You raise an interesting side issue here. Do you argue a priori that persons learning a language as adults cannot achieve competence which is empirically indistinguishable from that of native speakers?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
65. dan: (responding to 64.) I guess I do. A Native French speaker might learn English well enough to be indistinguishable from a native English speaker, but he or she will not have native competence. In other words, you cannot ask that speaker a question regarding something like say, contraction and get a truthful answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
66. daj: (responding to 65.) Even worse, you would never be able to use this speaker as a guinea pig in a SWH test, since he would be a native speaker of two languages, so his perception of the world would be conditioned by both. This would be true for any bilingual speaker, it seems to me. So you&#039;ll never be able to test the SWH until you have a &amp;quot;pure strain&amp;quot; of Lojban speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
67. cowan: (responding to 66.) Some Lojbanists agree, and say we will need to wait for a second generation. Another viewpoint is that by having people who speak Lojban+English, Lojban+French, Lojban+Vietnamese, Lojban+Navajo, etc. etc. we will be able to factor out the Lojban contribution when compared with people bilingual in two natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(&amp;quot;Bilingual&amp;quot; here means &amp;quot;bilingual within the acquisition period&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
68. dan: (continuation of 65.) E.g. In English, one can contract words like &amp;quot;he&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;is&amp;quot;, but only in particular circumstances. Hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  He&#039;s a nice boy&lt;br /&gt;
  Isn&#039;t he a nice boy?/* yes, he&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The starred sentence is ungrammatical, the contraction is not acceptable in that position. It is acceptable in the first sentence. A native French speaker who knows English might be able to guess on that, but he or she certainly would NOT have a reliable intuition on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
69. rjohnson: (responding to 68.) I have to agree with Dan here, sort of. I don&#039;t think the distinction to be made is between L1 and L2 competence, though, but between critical- period learning and post-critical-period (or &amp;quot;adult&amp;quot;) learning. I think it&#039;s pretty clear that they&#039;re two different processes (though of course they may share some features). An adult learner may indeed learn a language well-enough to pass an operationalist sort of test (i.e., be indistinguishable from a native speaker), but shouldn&#039;t be taken as a reliable judge of grammaticalness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
70. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 64.) We know that the phonology is learnable by children, because it is a subset of phonologies which children can and do learn. We have every reason to believe that the vocabulary is learnable: the words are similar in morphology to those existing in natural languages, and the consonant clusters and diphthongs are all to be found in natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
71. dan: (responding to 70.) Yes, but if there is a theory of phonological universals, then it is argued that certain combinations simply won&#039;t ever occur. Did the Lojban engineers take this into account, accept at the most rudimentary level? I doubt it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
72. cowan: (responding to 71.) What do you call &amp;quot;rudimentary&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Brief summary of Lojban phonology omitted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rules are arbitrary, yes, but I should like to be shown wherein they are unlearnable. Furthermore, they need to be known only to people inventing new words: several of them are relaxed for borrowings and names.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
73. lojbab: (responding to 71.) An interesting conditional, that first sentence. Is Dan claiming that there is a theory or not? Is he claiming that certain combinations won&#039;t occur? He seems to be claiming that Lojban has combinations that cannot occur but gives no examples. He&#039;ll have trouble finding them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We did indeed take phonological universals into account in several ways. In the first place, as John Cowan mentions, the set of permitted sounds was selected as a subset of those found in many languages. We constrained consonant clusters by restrictive rules that recognize phonological properties like voiced/voiceless assimilation and included redundancy as a criteria in assigning words, reducing the number of minimal pairs distinctions. We added the apostrophe to prevent unwanted diphthongization; it represents devoicing of the glide between two adjacent vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, the frequency of sounds in predicate words should statistically parallel the sum of the corresponding frequencies in our six source languages. (For those unfamiliar, most of Lojban&#039;s predicate root words are formed by maximizing the appearance of phoneme patterns found in those source languages weighted by approximate number of speakers.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would say that more time has been spent overall during Loglan/Lojban&#039;s history on the interaction between phonology and morphology than on any other single feature of the language. This is probably because it is the best documented feature of the design and also the most easily compared to other languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
74. cowan: (responding to 63, continuation of 70.) What we don&#039;t know is whether the grammar is learnable by a child. We won&#039;t know that until the experiment is tried, first by raising a bilingual or trilingual child, and then eventu- ally as part of a community of monolingual speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
75. lojbab: (responding to 63.) We&#039;ve hardly ignored the question [of learnability by children]. However, from what I&#039;ve read, children learn languages from adult role models. We need adult fluent speakers therefore in order to teach children. Within the next two decades at least, all such adults will be 2nd language speakers. So why not concentrate now on what we can do something about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
76. dan: (responding to 75.) My point from my first posting on has been that I can&#039;t imagine any child being able to acquire something as baroque as Lojban in its current form. My understanding of acquisition is that non- ambiguity is sacrificed in favor of learnability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
77. cowan: (responding to 76.) Maybe so. After all, the English my daughter spoke at the age of two was hardly &amp;quot;acceptable&amp;quot; as a full adult English, although now (at three) her English is clearly acceptable (she seems to be a bit in advance of her age-mates in this respect). There is no reason to think that a Lojban-speaking child would be different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In one respect, some of the simpler Lojban constructions like observatives (bare predicators without arguments) are more analogous to young-child linguistic forms. The English utterance &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; is a bit deviant, in that English- speakers would think it rather odd for an adult to say simply &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; on seeing a dog, but for a child this utterance would be quite acceptable. The exact Lojban translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot;, on the other hand, is fully grammatical and not at all deviant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
78. lojbab: (responding to 76.) Baroque? Compared to natural languages, Lojban is incredibly simple, and children acquire natural languages (else they would not be &#039;natural&#039;). Now whether Lojban will be seen as simple to a child is a valid question, but there is no reason to believe otherwise, and we&#039;ll know soon enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can non-ambiguity be sacrificed in favor of learnability in natural languages acquisition? They aren&#039;t unambiguous in the first place. To whatever extent there IS unambiguity, the sheer complexity and irregularity of most of the language would overwhelm this. Lojban, being so much simpler to express unambiguously, MIGHT be able to be acquired unambiguously or at least relatively so (with the child growing into more accurate usage with age and understanding just as children of the natural languages do).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
79. dan: (responding to 78.) I was suggesting that ambiguous languages are easier to learn than unambiguous ones. There aren&#039;t any unambiguous natural languages that I know of, so it&#039;s difficult to test this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An unambiguous language would require enough additional baggage, that it would make learning it unwieldy. An ambiguous language has fewer rules. And just for the record, let&#039;s get things straight with regard to our definition of &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot;. By rules, I mean rules that are used to characterize the language, not rules in the pre- scriptive sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The average child learns his or her language (barring language disorders or highly unusual circumstances) quite rapidly, ambiguity and all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As to whether Lojban is baroque or not, the question is this: If there were hypothetical native speakers of Lojban, how complicated would an abstract characterization of their competence be? If such an abstract characterization were more complicated than a similar characterization of say, Klammath, then I would stand by my assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, one might beg the question and ask whether such abstractions are meaningful at all (as the Schankians do), but that&#039;s a whole other ball o&#039; wax (quite interesting too).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
80. lee: (responding to 76.) The discussion of irregularity might profit from distinguishing types of irregularity:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# semantic irregularity - no one-to-one correspondence between form and meaning, as for example when phonological changes produce variations in the form of a stem;&lt;br /&gt;
# morphological irregularity - no uniform way of deriving related words, as in the examples of archaic paradigms;&lt;br /&gt;
# distributional irregularity - certain combinations of forms (or features) are not permitted, for instance when obligatory phonological changes eliminate some phone(me) combinations;&lt;br /&gt;
# form class irregularity - it is not possible to distinguish forms or their categories directly from their pronunciation, as when a phonological change is extended from word-internal to cross word boundaries, making it more difficult to tell where words begin and end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then it&#039;s interesting to catalog the various ways that changes which remedy one sort of irregularity may create others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
81. lojbab: (responding to 80.) Each of these has a corresponding &#039;ambiguity&#039;, as well, in which various degrees of inconsistency and inconstancy exist in the rules for building and interpreting forms of each of these types. Lojban has defined regularity and unambiguity in the last three. We can expect to directly observe the causes and effects that result in changes in these areas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
82. lojbab: (continuation of 75., responding to 63.) There are several Lojbanists that have indicated intent to try to raise their children as bilingual Lojban/natural-language speakers, probably the best that can and should be attempted until/unless Lojban proves its value. I cer- tainly wouldn&#039;t ask anyone to raise children solely Lojban- speaking; it would smack of human-experimentation to me (an issue I&#039;m fairly sensitive on).&lt;br /&gt;
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83. dan: Some Lojban propaganda claims that the language has been characterized by a transformational grammar, but this has never actually been demonstrated, and seems quite unlikely, since I would imagine that a native speaker would be required to characterize a Lojban-user&#039;s competence. Since there probably will never BE a native Lojban speaker, how can you possibly ask one whether XXXX is an allowable sentence or word of his or her language? Current Lojban speakers are of no use, because they do not have such intu- itions about the language any more than a fluent second- language speaker of French (a French speaker whose native language is say Hindi) would have such intuitions about French.&lt;br /&gt;
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84. cowan: (responding to 83.) This illustrates a confusion between natural and constructed languages. In a natural language, the source of competence is the native speaker&#039;s intuition. In a constructed language, during the construction phase (which Lojban is still in, though rapidly coming to the end of it), competence is defined by the constructor. A grammatical Lojban sentence is what we say it is, where &amp;quot;what we say&amp;quot; is defined by the baselined vocabulary lists and machine grammar. The reference for syntactic correctness is a parsing program, and when a Loj- banist utters something the program can&#039;t parse, we say that he has made an &amp;quot;error&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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85. dan: (responding to 84.) Once again, completely arbitrary. In English, or any other natural language, grammaticalness is also defined by what we can say and understand. &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is perfectly grammatical, because people use and understand it all the time. Only English teachers and guys like John Simon sit around and contemplate (by their own arbitrary standards) whether or not it&#039;s okay to split infinitives and use &amp;quot;hopefully&amp;quot; right. The rest of us just do it.&lt;br /&gt;
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86. cowan: (responding to 85.) Correct, and therefore for a natural language like English, the only way to determine the grammar is by {in,intro}spection. But this has nothing to do with the grammar being in transformational form, i.e. a set of PS rules generating a deep structure with a set of T rules generating the surface structure from them. Such a grammar has not been fully worked out for Lojban, but is clearly not impossible in principle. It also happens to be the case that PS rules are sufficient to generate the whole of the language&#039;s surface structure all by themselves (probably not true of English), although the PS-only version of the grammar which we have now baselined does not explain semantic equivalences of different structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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87. cowan: (continuation of 84.) But this will not always be so. When the language is fully defined and baselined, it will be &amp;quot;launched&amp;quot; and the normal processes of linguistic change will be allowed to operate. We expect that some grammatical forms, vocabulary items, etc. will be &amp;quot;pruned&amp;quot; because nobody uses them. They will remain in the formal language definition, available to all speakers in the same sort of way that archaic grammar or vocabulary forms are available to speakers of natural languages: viz. if they take the trouble to look them up. At that time it will be appropriate to consult human speakers (and AI programs, if any) to investigate correct linguistic behavior a posteriori.&lt;br /&gt;
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88. dan: (responding to 87.) Org! What a mess! &amp;quot;Correct&amp;quot; linguistic behavior? Lojban will be a linguistic battlefield with prescriptivists running around telling people that they can&#039;t say such-and-such a sentence, because it can&#039;t be parsed by Lojban&#039;s computationally sound grammar (verified by a genuine computer!).&lt;br /&gt;
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89. cowan: (responding to 88.) Don&#039;t be silly. Of course Lojbanists can do that if they want to, just as speakers of English and other languages can if they want to. Again, you are ignoring the difference between a language that is born a priori and one that isn&#039;t. After the language is delivered from the womb, anything can and quite probably will happen in the way of changes, which will not be dictated from above.&lt;br /&gt;
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90. lojbab: (responding to 85.) Not true for English, really, nor for all natural languages. English is of course not even a single language in the sense that there are many dialects spoken around the world [not all 100% mutually understandable]. Many of these do not use constructs found in the &#039;standard language&#039;, even though they are obviously understood by their listeners. But how could we say this if we didn&#039;t have a concept of what the &#039;standard language&#039; is, which is distinct from what we say and understand. (Of course, the definition of standard language varies from country to country, too. British speakers would even less accept some of Dan&#039;s Americanisms, and in some cases might misunderstand them. (Actually, there is some variation among &#039;standard Englishes&#039;, as well, as evidenced by differences in the various published style manuals.))&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition, each language has registers, in some of which certain constructs may be permitted, but which in others are unacceptable. Try using &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; in a journal paper. In other languages, such as Japanese, registers are so structured and formalized as to almost make for independent languages. Understanding is not a sufficient criteria for grammaticalness..&lt;br /&gt;
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91. dan: (responding to 90.) This is where I disagree most strongly. To my mind, grammaticalness. is determined solely by whether a member of a speech community finds a given utterance acceptable. Members of my speech community will, if they put their biases aside, admit that &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is a perfectly acceptable sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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92. cowan: (responding to 91.) Northrop Frye tells a story about going to a hardware store and asking for something or other, and being told &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got any&amp;quot;. The speaker then glanced at Frye and added, &amp;quot;We haven&#039;t got none.&amp;quot; This remark, says Frye, has what literary critics call texture: it means 1) we haven&#039;t got any, and 2) you look to me like a schoolteacher, and nobody&#039;s going to catch me talking like one of those.&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; in question is part of an English-speaker&#039;s competence, which is not limited to separating the intelligible from the unintelligible, but also can separate what kinds of grammatical constructions may be used by what speakers in what situations. *&amp;quot;Lazy the jumps fox quick dog brown over the&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in all situations. *&amp;quot;Me see she&amp;quot; is probably also ungrammatical in all situations, although perfectly intelligible. *&amp;quot;Mama like pretty spoon&amp;quot; is good toddler-English but unacceptable adult-English. *&amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; is ungrammatical in some dialects (mine, for example) and entirely grammatical in others. *&amp;quot;For all x, for some y, such that x is a man, such that y is a fish, x loves y&amp;quot; is grammatical to me, but many native speakers would reject it as almost as unintelligible as my first example. I have asterisked all of these examples as ungrammatical for some speakers in some situations.&lt;br /&gt;
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93. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) And of course, for many nations there are academies that dictate the standard language for that nation (I use nations instead of languages since, for example, Brazil has an academy separate from that of Portugal, although both work together at times.) English has no academy, but this is an exception. Therefore we end up with individuals setting themselves up as a self-appointed &#039;academy&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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94. dan: (responding to 93.) Thank God we don&#039;t have such academies. Take a look at how much attention is paid to such academies too. French speakers are constantly being advised to avoid English borrowings like &amp;quot;Picque-Nique&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Le Weekend&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Fair du ski&amp;quot;, but they use them constantly and of course they should be allowed to if they want to.&lt;br /&gt;
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95. cowan: (responding to 94.) Discussions of &amp;quot;allowing people to do things&amp;quot; are political, not linguistic. Linguistics as such is silent on the subject of what people &amp;quot;should&amp;quot; do, permit, or forbid.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Does a rock roll down hill because it wants to or because it has to?&amp;quot; An animist would plump for the former reply; most educated Westerners, probably the latter. But a pure operational scientist would reply &amp;quot;Neither. Rocks simply do roll down hill, that&#039;s all.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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96. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) This does not make &#039;academies&#039;, or language prescription &#039;wrong&#039;. Dan&#039;s libertarian view of language is understandable given his American and English language cultural values. In addition, there is a difference between the prescriptive/descriptive debate from the point of view of linguists as opposed to that of regular speakers. Most people, for example, expect a dictionary to be prescrip- tive, even thought the linguists who write them disagree.&lt;br /&gt;
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97. dan: (responding to 96.) I prefer &amp;quot;anarchistic&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;libertarian&amp;quot; for personal reasons :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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98. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Lojban has a valid reason (unambiguity) to prescribe its standard form. If Dan chooses to learn Lojban, and then chooses to deviate from those standard forms, he may be expanding the language. Of course, he also may have trouble getting his computer to understand him. Since ideally Lojban&#039;s target &#039;speaker&#039; population may include computers, failure to express himself so that the computer understands him (unambiguously) means Dan is speaking ungrammatically even by his own definition.&lt;br /&gt;
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99. dan: (responding to 98.) Whaaaat? The goal of Natural Language Understanding should be for the system to understand human languages, not for human speakers to alter their speech so that a computer can understand it. Since we&#039;ve already established that Lojban isn&#039;t unambiguous, any Lojban NLP system is already going to be having a hissy fit over plastic cats.&lt;br /&gt;
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100. cowan: (responding to 99.) Of course. But such a Lojban NLP can 1) recognize unambiguously that it has detected an ambiguity, 2) ask for help, and 3) get an unambiguous response. If a Lojban computer sees &amp;quot;slasi mlatu&amp;quot; in its input, it can ask &amp;quot;lu slasi mlatu li&#039;u ta&#039;unai pei&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;quote plastic cat unquote expand- the-metaphor how?&amp;quot; and expect a response such as &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi ke&#039;a cidja lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that it eats plastic&amp;quot;, or else &amp;quot;lo mlatu poi zo&#039;e zbasu ke&#039;a lo slasi&amp;quot;, literally &amp;quot;a cat such-that something makes it from plastic&amp;quot;. And other responses are of course also possible.&lt;br /&gt;
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101. dan: (continuation of 99.) Besides, many prescriptivists have used the same arguments against various &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; forms. The argument against &amp;quot;double negatives&amp;quot; is that they are &amp;quot;illogical&amp;quot;. The fact that no one seems to have a bit of trouble understanding them doesn&#039;t matter I suppose.&lt;br /&gt;
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102. lojbab: (continuation of 90.) Some other &#039;natural languages&#039; are indeed defined exactly as Lojban is, by an a priori &#039;committee&#039; that selected the valid forms. Norse, Modern Hebrew, and several African languages were defined by some nationalists taking features from other languages used by the target population (and in the case of Hebrew, from incomplete knowledge of a dead language), and arbitrary features sometimes where the several languages collided. These all became living natural languages. Why can&#039;t Lojban, which is merely doing the same on a grander scale?&lt;br /&gt;
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103. dan: (responding to 102.) I would imagine that all of them underwent creolization, which seems to be nature&#039;s way of smoothing things out, linguistically. If Lojban develops a native speech community, then it will undoubtedly do the same, probably in all of the worst sorts of ways (the moral equivalent of &amp;quot;I ain&#039;t got none&amp;quot; in Lojban) and Lojban will be yet another zany, irregular, ambiguous, beautiful language. In other words, what&#039;s the point?&lt;br /&gt;
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104. cowan: (responding to 103.) Well, perhaps you are right. Then we&#039;ll have learned something. And perhaps you are wrong. And then we&#039;ll have learned something else. That&#039;s what makes this experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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105. cowan: (continuation of 87.) There will also be growth in the language: technical terms in all fields will be borrowed and Lojbanized as needed; new compounds will be freely created, and it is even possible that new grammatical constructions will be built by usage, although we have really tried to be quite comprehensive in this domain.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&#039;t understand what the stuff about transformational grammar vs. any other kind has to do with this issue. A transformational grammar is simply certain kind of formal description. Doubtless many natural languages exist of which no transformational grammar has ever been given: do TG [transformational grammar - a linguistics theory] advocates doubt that such grammars are possible a priori?&lt;br /&gt;
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106. dan: (responding to 105.) TG is a formal description that requires native speakers to confirm. Even you have admitted that there are no native speakers of the language. How can there be a transformational account of a language without native speakers? Yet Bob LeChevalier told me point blank that such a transformational account did exist.&lt;br /&gt;
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107. cowan: (responding to 106.) I believe what Bob meant to convey was that an investigation had been made to see whether the semantic equivalence of certain Lojban constructions could be represented by T rules which would transform certain syntax trees into other trees in a meaning-preserving way. Indeed, this can be done, although it has not been done for every detail of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again, I see no difference between TG formal descriptions and others in this respect. Every formal description of a natural language requires speakers of that language to confirm or disconfirm it, but a constructed language is launched with an a priori formal description from which (or from simplified/clarified forms of which) new speakers learn.&lt;br /&gt;
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Think of Lojban as being spoken by people who live so far away that we can&#039;t ever go there to talk with them, but they have sent us some of their Lojban as a Second Language materials used for instructing their neighbors in their language. Magically, these materials have been translated into English. Some of us now learn this language and begin to speak it. Our children hear us speaking it and either learn it natively (i.e. as other languages are learned) or else they don&#039;t. Either way, a datum for experimental linguistics. A board of psychologists then administers some tests to us and our children to see if either population thinks differently (in some sense) from a matched control group. Another datum for experimental linguistics.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many generations pass and the language undoubtedly changes. All this history is forgotten. A Linguist (capital L) comes on the scene and decides to study this language called Lojban; perhaps he is himself a native speaker. He records, using whatever linguistic theory is current at that time, a model of the grammar (a posteriori) of the language as it is spoken then. An archaeologist digs up a copy of the original Lojban textbook, machine grammar, etc., and historical linguistics goes to work reconstructing the way the language has changed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why not?&lt;br /&gt;
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108. rjohnson: (responding to 106.) Dan, you&#039;re conflating the formal (mathematical) and the psychological issues here. A transformational grammar is simply a class of formal device for characterizing (generating) sentences. it has nothing to do with competence. You could (and do) have transformational grammars for characterizing computer languages, strings of arbitrary symbols, etc. &amp;quot;Transformational&amp;quot; belongs in the same paradigm as &amp;quot;phrase structure&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;finite state&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;indexed&amp;quot; and so on; these are classes of grammars, not empirical theories.&lt;br /&gt;
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109. dan: (responding to 108.) I suppose you&#039;re right again, although perhaps my studies in Montague Grammar have made me lose sight of psychological vs. mathematical distinctions :-) Seriously though, one does rely on grammaticalness. judgements when trying to determine if a certain movement is viable: for example in the case of &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1 a. Which movie(t) do you want to see? (t) &lt;br /&gt;
  b. Which movie do you wanna see?&lt;br /&gt;
2 a. Which team(t) do you want (t) to win? &lt;br /&gt;
  b. *Which team do you wanna win?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The presence of the trace in (2) between &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;want&amp;quot; blocks &amp;quot;wanna&amp;quot; contraction.&lt;br /&gt;
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110. rjohnson: (continuation of 108.) The (now moribund) theory of Transformational Grammar, on the other hand, is a set of claims about linguistic competence, largely abandoned by generativists in favor of GB [this, as well as other jargon terms in this paragraph, is a linguistic theory of grammar] and other systems. Among these claims is the idea that the basic data are the grammaticalness. judgements of native speakers. But this has nothing to do with the formal notion of transformations, and can be applied in LFG, GPSG, dependency, or just about any other formal framework as well. The original poster [cowan], quite properly, kept the two levels separate.&lt;br /&gt;
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111. dan: (responding to 110.) Well you&#039;re probably right again. I&#039;m not a professional linguist yet - only a Cognitive Science type.&lt;br /&gt;
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112. rjohnson: (continuation of 110, also responding to 46.) Of course you [assume UG]. You&#039;re an MIT student. For most of the rest of the world, however, the jury is still out, and it&#039;s a mistake to assume what you&#039;re trying to prove.&lt;br /&gt;
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113. dan: (responding to 112.) I&#039;m not actually, I just post from here :-( I don&#039;t want to misrepresent myself as an MIT linguist. I studied cognitive science as an undergrad at Hampshire College, with a strong bias towards linguistics. As you can see, I play fast and loose with some of the terminology.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for assuming what we&#039;re trying to prove, isn&#039;t that the crux of this argument? Most Chomskian linguists assume UG, and most Lojbanists assume Sapir/Whorf. In the words of The Brady Bunch &amp;quot;I guess we&#039;ve all learned a valuable lesson&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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114. kimba: (responding to 113.) The point was supposed to be, if you are slamming someone else&#039;s assumptions, the least you can do is write your own in black ink in a clear and legible hand, rather than saying (effectively) &amp;quot;this is inconsistent with UG and therefore wrong&amp;quot;. As I ought, if I were actually saying anything:-) I find neither [UG nor SWH] particularly convincing or illuminating.&lt;br /&gt;
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115. lojbab: (responding to 106.) The claim I made is that John Parks-Clifford, a linguist involved with Loglan since 1975, told me that he investigated 1970&#039;s Loglan using TG techniques during the 70&#039;s and was able to demonstrate to his own satisfaction that all features of Loglan were amenable to TG analysis, and that he found no &#039;unusual&#039; transforms. More recently, a student in Cleveland has been attempting to develop a more formal TG description of the language. This will undoubtedly take a while, but he re- ported to me earlier this year that not only had he found nothing unusual, he had identified some elegant features of the language using TG techniques. The features he reported are indeed consistent with the language definition, and in- cluded aspects that the student had not been taught (i.e. that we had not put into any published documents that the student had received. &lt;br /&gt;
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116. dan (conclusion of 1., from 63.): Ultimately, the enterprise of Lojban is at best an intellectual puzzle, and perhaps on this level, it is interesting. To learn a &amp;quot;language&amp;quot; (perhaps &amp;quot;code&amp;quot; would be better) like Lojban, based on principles of logic can be seen as the equivalent of a Pig-Latin for intellectuals and engineers.&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Lojban: is it naive?&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. [The following exchange between cowan and daj began with a one-liner from daj that Lojban was &amp;quot;naive&amp;quot;. cowan wrote back privately to ask &amp;quot;Why do you say that?&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
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2. daj: Well, the three things that jump out at me right away are: (1) You can&#039;t design a culture-free language. Simply the choice of categories to represent in the language (tense, aspect, definite- indefinite, etc.) are culture-bound. In addition, there&#039;s a lot of talk in that description about using metaphor to extend the bare bones of the language. Can there be anything more culture-bound than metaphor (not the mechanism, but the choices of images)?&lt;br /&gt;
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3. cowan: (responding to 2.) Absolutely correct. Lojban is not a culture-free language; every language creates its own culture if the SWH is correct, and we assume it correct (its falsity is the null hypothesis) for purposes of the Lojban experiment. Assuming SWH, then lei lojbo &#039;the mass of those pertaining to Lojban&#039; will create their own culture, with its own metaphors and characteristic idioms.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. daj: (responding to 3.) Then what&#039;s the point of the language? All you would end up with is a bunch of creolized Lojban daughter languages, wouldn&#039;t you?&lt;br /&gt;
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5. cowan: (responding to 4.) We hope not. Of course in the very long term that can happen to any language: Latin split into lots of daughters, some of which are more or less heavily influenced by other languages (Rumanian being the prime example). The idea is that Lojban ways of thought (assuming there are such things) will influence the creation of Lojbanic culture.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. cowan: (continuation of 3.) Lojban deals with the category problem (which we refer to as the &amp;quot;metaphysical assumptions&amp;quot; problem) by minimizing required categories.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tense, aspect, and definiteness are optional categories of discourse in the language, but can be represented when needed. We can also represent things like the observa- tional status of assertions, the emotional attitude which goes with them (there is an entire set of paralinguistic grunts for expressing emotions), and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. daj: (responding to 6.) Since every known language (as far as I know) has a set of required categories, they must fulfill some function. Again, real speakers would make the categories compulsory and create something different from the original design.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. cowan: (responding to 7.) Maybe, maybe not. Since the non-required categories are expressed by marked forms (using the particles), sentences that don&#039;t express categories are always possible. Again, they might come to seem archaic or childish, but that&#039;s a second-order effect. When a 2-year-old says &amp;quot;Dog!&amp;quot; we usually consider that a bit deviant, but the Lojban literal translation &amp;quot;gerku&amp;quot; is fully grammatical Lojban - a predicate with all arguments elliptically omitted.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. daj: (continuation of 7.) Another point. A few weeks ago you posted a list of Lojban pronouns. It struck me then that this paradigm was probably too rich for human language. This is just a gut feeling, but it seems to me that in real languages the number of elements in a con- trastive set is pretty severely limited.&lt;br /&gt;
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10. cowan: (responding to 9.) Depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;contrastive&amp;quot;. The 43 Lojban pronouns are indeed contrastive in the sense of being interchangeable in the grammar, but they aren&#039;t semantically interchangeable.  They fall into several categories: personal, bound-vari- able, free-variable, question, relativized argument, reflexive, demonstrative, pro-utterance, pro-argument, and indefinite. Within each category there are only a few pronouns (or &amp;quot;anaphora&amp;quot; more technically - &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot; in Lojban). Grammatically, &amp;quot;do&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dei&amp;quot; are interchangeable, but no one will confuse &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; (the listener) with &amp;quot;this utterance I am now uttering&amp;quot;!&lt;br /&gt;
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11. daj: (continuation of 7., from 9.) I can see that it would be possible in some cases to have people speaking different dialects of the same language, where each dialect over-specified some categories from the point of view of other dialects. After all, we don&#039;t really have much trouble understanding Chinese speakers of English who simply eliminate the verb tense system and replace it with adverbs. But I don&#039;t think this would work with the pronouns, since a listener wouldn&#039;t know what any given pronoun meant without knowing the entire set.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. cowan: (responding to 11.) Correct. On the other hand, it may be that lots of the ba&#039;ivla don&#039;t come up much. For example &amp;quot;da&#039;e&amp;quot; meaning &amp;quot;a far future utterance&amp;quot; probably won&#039;t be used very often, and someone who doesn&#039;t understand it or even recognize it may still be quite a fluent speaker. One can speak English fluently without knowing &amp;quot;thou&amp;quot;, for example, although certainly it is a personal pronoun contrasting with &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; and the rest. The occasions for its use (in Modern English) just aren&#039;t that common.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. daj: (continuation of 2.) (2) If you&#039;re going to design a language that people are actually going to speak, you&#039;re going to have to deal with whatever it is that leads human languages to be the way they are. One obvious universal of real language is a floating equilibrium between ambiguity and redundancy. If you want to design a language without ambiguity, you&#039;ll have to figure out what role ambiguity plays and compensate for the loss. There are many other characteristics like this, such as why semantically external predicates like negation and tense tend to become reduced and attached to internal pieces of a sentence, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. cowan: (responding to 13.) Lojban is not free of ambiguity, only of phonological and syntactic ambiguity.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. daj: (responding to 2.) First phonological ambiguity. In your original posting you gave examples which seemed to indicate that Lojban words were polysyllabic, with syllable-initial stress. I assume that your claim that analysis of the input stream into words was unambiguous has to depend on that stress placement - in other words, a word begins where a stress occurs and includes all following unstressed syllables. But in natural languages, there are unstressed words - clitics - plus other uses of stress for phrase boundary identification, discourse function, etc. How are you going to prevent phonological ambiguity from creeping into Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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16. cowan: (responding to 15.) I must have misled you. Lojban stress is as follows: stress on content words (&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot;) is penultimate. All root brivla are two- syllabled, so stress appears to be initial.&lt;br /&gt;
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Structure words (&amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;) are one or two syllables and may be stressed freely. A structure word with final stress immediately followed by a brivla must have a separating pause (which can be a full pause or just a glottal stop). Thus in &amp;quot;le bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot; has penultimate stress; if &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is unstressed it can be proclitic [sounded together with the following word], whereas if it is stressed a pause is required to forbid the reading &amp;quot;lebri di&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Names have free stress, which must be indicated by capitalization in writing when it is not penultimate. Names are always followed by pause, and must be preceded by either pause or one of the cmavo &amp;quot;la&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lai&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;la&#039;i&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot; (the first three are articles, the last a vocative marker). These same cmavo may not be embedded in names, so &amp;quot;*doil&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;Doyle&amp;quot; is not a valid Lojban name; it would have to be &amp;quot;do&#039;il&amp;quot;, roughly &amp;quot;Dough-heel&amp;quot;. (The Lojban &#039; character represents IPA [h], or more accurately a voiceless vowel glide.)&lt;br /&gt;
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17. daj: (continuation of 15.) And then there&#039;s syntactic ambiguity. Math/logic notation has an extremely powerful device for preventing ambiguity - parentheses. With parentheses you can resolve &amp;quot;old men and women&amp;quot; into either &amp;quot;((old men) and (women))&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;(old (men and women)).&amp;quot; It&#039;s hard to imagine anything like this in natural language that could operate at more than one or two levels of embedding. Even with all kinds of contrastive stress and artificial intonation breaks we can&#039;t read even slightly complicated math formulas so that they can be written down correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. cowan: (responding to 17.) Lojban has lots of kinds of parentheses: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; for Boolean connective groupings, &amp;quot;vei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ve&#039;o&amp;quot; for strictly numerical/mathematical parentheses, &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; for discursive parentheses (like these). These can be stacked up as required. Of course, if things get too complicated people may not be able to understand what is said, but En- glish has that problem as well. &amp;quot;The cheese that the mouse that the man that the woman married chased ate rotted&amp;quot; is grammatical, but not intelligible due to stack overflow in the listener. But the words do exist as a regular part of the language: if the worst comes to the worst, the listener could write down what is said verbatim, pass it through a machine parser, and figure out exactly what is bracketed with what. This ability could be quite useful for things like drafting regulations, which are notoriously ridden with unintentional ambiguity: having a parser looking over your shoulder as you write such a thing would help you in seeing ways in which your listener/reader could get confused, and clarifying them.&lt;br /&gt;
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19. daj: (continuation from 15., from 17.) Also, once you allow idiomatization into the language, you&#039;re going to have syntactic reanalysis, which will produce syntactic ambiguity. For instance, every language has some way of embedding one sentence inside another, and as far as I know, they all have ways of reducing the information in the embedded sentence. For instance, take a structure like (I like (I swim)), which can be realized as either &amp;quot;I like swimming&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I like to swim.&amp;quot; It&#039;s pretty clear that the action indicated by &amp;quot;swim&amp;quot; is subordinate to the main verb &amp;quot;like.&amp;quot; On the other hand, I don&#039;t think anyone would analyze &amp;quot;I am swimming&amp;quot; as (I am (I swim)). Here we think of &amp;quot;am&amp;quot; as being a marker on the main verb, so that the structure is [something like] (I (am swim)). But both structures are realized in actual speech as V-V sequences, and there are many such sequences that are hard to classify: &amp;quot;am to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am going to,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;am supposed to,&amp;quot; etc. This sort of reanalysis is extremely common and probably unavoidable in any real language.&lt;br /&gt;
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20. cowan: (responding to 19.) I&#039;m not sure how to comment on this. However, I guess the best point I can make is that in Lojban, the &amp;quot;surface structure&amp;quot; is quite close to the &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot;. We simply do not have things like embedding and tense marking being realized with the same forms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I like (I swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu mi limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I like the event-of I swim&amp;quot;. (I (am swim)) comes out &amp;quot;mi ca limna&amp;quot; which is &amp;quot;I now swim&amp;quot;. The first form could be collapsed into &amp;quot;mi limna nelci&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;I swimly like&amp;quot;, which is one of the forms which is explicitly marked as semantically ambiguous: the exact way in which the liking is a kind of swimming is not indicated. This process of making a &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; (Lojban for &amp;quot;open compound&amp;quot;) is a kind of Lojban transformation, and the current grammar does not ex- press it - it is a grammar of surface structure alone, but a surface structure that is more like the deep structure of other languages. This is the kind of embedding we call &amp;quot;abstraction&amp;quot;: there are also other embeddings, involving description, relativization, metalinguistic comments, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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21. cowan: (continuation of 14.) Metaphors (which, as you say, are fundamental - they are Mandarin-type metaphors and really correspond more to nominal compounds in English) are semantically ambiguous, and there is also ambiguity in names and through the extensive use of ellipsis and defaults: the full translation of a simple utterance like mi klama is &#039;I/we go to somewhere, from somewhere, via some route, by some means&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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22. daj: (responding to 21.) But as soon as you allow these metaphors, you&#039;ve compromised universal comprehensibility, which I assume is one purpose of the language. Do you think a Mongol tribesman would understand &amp;quot;heart ache,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;dog days,&amp;quot; etc., or indeed would he have any way of knowing that &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t to be taken literally? &lt;br /&gt;
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23. cowan: (responding to 22.) There is a subtle point here. There is a marker for &amp;quot;figurative speech&amp;quot; which would be used on &amp;quot;back stabber&amp;quot; and would signal &amp;quot;There is a culturally dependent construction here!&amp;quot; The intent is not that everything is instantly and perfectly comprehensi- ble to someone who knows only the root words, but rather that non-root words are built up creatively from the roots. Thus &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would refer to the literal heart and literal pain; what would be ambiguous would be the exact connection between these two. Is the pain in the heart, because of the heart, or what? But &amp;quot;heart pain&amp;quot; would not be a valid tanru for &amp;quot;emotional pain&amp;quot;, absent the figurative speech marker. It is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; (#*$@ English).&lt;br /&gt;
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24. daj: (continuation of 22.) In natural language words exist in paradigmatic sets: &amp;quot;No contrast, no content.&amp;quot; The meaning of &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot; would be determined in any single dialect by the categories that had become compulsory in that dialect. In other words, &amp;quot;I go&amp;quot; does not mean the same thing as German &amp;quot;ich gehe,&amp;quot; because in English it contrasts with &amp;quot;I am going,&amp;quot; while in German there is no such tense.&lt;br /&gt;
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25. cowan: (responding to 24.) Each root word in Lojban expresses an N-place predicate, and its meaning is defined by the significance of the N places. Thus &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; is a 5- place predicate meaning &amp;quot;A goes to B from C via route D by means E&amp;quot;. The Lojban design maintains that these five places are an essential part of the meaning of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;, and that any state of affairs not involving an agent, a destination, an origin, a route, and a means is not validly captured by the word &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;. Most roots have 1, 2, or 3 places, and 5 is the maximum. Additional places (such as the time, the location, the purpose, etc.) can be expressed as well by an extensible set of tags, but they are not considered essential to meaning. In the case of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; there is no word which precisely &amp;quot;contrasts&amp;quot; with it in the sense of having exactly the same five places, although &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; (A transfers B to C from D via E) and &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; (A moves B from C to D via E) come close - the difference is that &amp;quot;muvdu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; involve physical objects, whereas &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; doesn&#039;t necessarily. But all Lojban predicates with the same number of places contrast in that they are freely substitutable, although perhaps nonsense-producing.&lt;br /&gt;
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26. cowan: (continuation of 14., from 21.) Negation, tense, etc. can be expressed either externally through the semantics or internally through the grammar. Negation in particular has gotten a great deal of attention: we split it into contradictory negation (with na or naku), contrary/ polar/scalar negation (with a variety of particles for simple contrary, polar opposite, and &amp;quot;scale neutral&amp;quot;), and metalinguistic negation (with na&#039;i).&lt;br /&gt;
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27. daj: (responding to 26.) Again, I think the evidence from natural language suggests that people won&#039;t tolerate very much paradigmatic indeterminacy. They will boil down all these choices to a few that seem particularly important to them.&lt;br /&gt;
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28. daj: (continuation of 2., from 13.) (3) You can&#039;t design a language &amp;quot;not based on any existing languages.&amp;quot; You might be able to choose totally arbitrary vocabulary, since vocabulary IS arbitrary, but interestingly enough, Lojban doesn&#039;t do that (words are based on U. N. languages as I remember). But in syntax the choices are limited, and Lojban seems to opt for a word-order language rather than a morphology language like Russian. Lojban is thereby biased toward languages that use word order to indicate structural relationships.&lt;br /&gt;
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29. cowan: (responding to 28.) You remember correctly. The relevant languages are Mandarin, English, Russian, Hindi, Spanish, and Arabic, weighted according to the numbers of speakers, and using a phoneme-matching algorithm to assign words with the highest figures of merit relative to the six languages. This mechanism is a &amp;quot;marketing device&amp;quot; to make the vocabulary easier to learn for speakers of any of those languages, especially Mandarin and English.&lt;br /&gt;
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Word order plays a fairly limited role in determining meaning: it determines which arguments of predicates are which, but can be overridden. Lojban is really a particle language: almost everything about the grammar is determined by which particles are used and where.&lt;br /&gt;
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30. daj: (responding to 29.) My mistake. But how do you come up with a culture-free list of particles?&lt;br /&gt;
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31. cowan: (responding to 30.) Again, we can&#039;t exactly. We attempt to be superinclusive, as I said above. The list of particles is large (~550) and if anybody comes up with a construct which cannot be handled by existing ones, we add one. Hopefully this process is now complete. The last few things to come in included the observationals (which say &amp;quot;how the speaker knows&amp;quot;, from Amerind languages), scalar negation, and the tense system, which is quite comprehensive (it covers space location and aspect as well as time). A few more may still need to be added to cover the needs of mathematics. &lt;br /&gt;
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32. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) I could go on. One obvious area is how Lojban indicates discourse functions like old and new information components of a sentence (or clause), whether it is iconic in tense sequences, whether it prefers coordination or subordination, etc., etc. All these factors are going to make it look like particular languages. All of them are going to have to be specified if the language isn&#039;t going to break up into dialects based on the way speakers of other languages implement unspecified features in their own speech.&lt;br /&gt;
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33. cowan: (responding to 32.) Discourse functions are handled by a large set of discursives, each of which has a polar opposite: things like specifically/generally, hypothetically/actually, metaphorically/explicitly, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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34. daj: (responding to 33.) These seem more pragmatic than discourse, but I admit the boundaries are fuzzy, and I may be using non-standard divisions. What I had in mind was the universally marked distinction between information that&#039;s already part of the conversation and information being introduced for the first time (in this conversation). English does it with articles (the/a) and intonation, Russian and Chinese do it with word order, Japanese does it with particles, etc., etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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35. cowan: (responding to 34.) The nearest Lojban equivalent to the &amp;quot;the/a&amp;quot; distinction is the &amp;quot;le/lo&amp;quot; distinction. &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;the fish, the thing(s) I describe as (a) fish&amp;quot;. It may be a whale, or a mermaid, or indeed my cat Freddy: as long as the listener understands what is meant, &amp;quot;le finpe&amp;quot; is correct; &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; is non-veridi- cal.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Lo finpe&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;fish, a fish, some fish, the thing(s) that really is-a (are) fish&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Lo&amp;quot; is veridical and makes a claim; sentences containing &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; are valid only if the thing is as described (they may be vacu- ously true otherwise, but probably a human listener would consider them ill-formed semantically).&lt;br /&gt;
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36. cowan: (responding to 32.) I don&#039;t understand &amp;quot;iconic in tense sequences.&amp;quot; Could you explain further?&lt;br /&gt;
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37. daj: (responding to 36.) In many languages (Chinese is one, I believe) you can say &amp;quot;After I went home I went to bed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went home before I went to bed,&amp;quot; but you can&#039;t say &amp;quot;Before I went to bed I went home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;I went to bed after I went home.&amp;quot; Clause sequence has to match time se- quence. I think it&#039;s even impossible in Chinese to say &amp;quot;I&#039;m staying home because I&#039;ve got a cold,&amp;quot; since the presupposed cause has to precede the consequent. Many other languages, of course, have no such restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
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38. cowan: (responding to 37.) Lojban has no such restriction. Of course, Chinese-native Lojbanists might be unlikely to construct Lojban sentences which violate this restriction, but they should be able to understand them passively if they are fluent in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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39. cowan: (responding to 32.) Coordination and subordination are both fully supported. Lojban features redundant structures: there are often many ways to say &amp;quot;the same thing&amp;quot; semantically. Lojban&#039;s specified grammar is not a transformational one, but that is not to say that a transformational grammar cannot exist or is trivial. Lojban has a &amp;quot;deep structure&amp;quot; even though we didn&#039;t design it to! Usage will decide, for example, whether the subordinating or coordinating versions of &amp;quot;A is true because B is true&amp;quot; will become dominant.&lt;br /&gt;
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40. daj: (responding to 39.) But won&#039;t different versions become dominant in different areas? And if so, won&#039;t that defeat the purpose of Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
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41. cowan: (responding to 40.) Remember that the purposes of Lojban are threefold: 1) experimental investigation of the SWH; 2) communications with computers; 3) international communication. Purposes 2) and 3) are effective if everybody can understand every construct (or almost every construct) even if they do not often use them in their own dialect. Purpose 1) probably cannot be satisfied until some people begin to speak Lojban as native bilinguals. There are native Esperanto speakers, whose parents had no other common language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Learning Lojban involves finding out about a rich set of structural resources. Some of these will go over automatically because they match your own language. Some will seem strange because they conflict with your language, and you will have trouble with them, but you will use them anyway because they are the easiest, shortest ways of saying what you mean in Lojban. The simple, unmarked forms of Lojban are the ones least like natural languages: the predicate grammar, the contradictory negation, and the logical (Boolean) connectives. The things that are &amp;quot;in there to emulate natural languages&amp;quot; are more heavily marked and so more difficult to exploit.&lt;br /&gt;
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The best example of this that comes to mind is the form of embedded sentence called abstraction: the (I like (I swim)) above. This is unnatural in English, especially in complex constructions, but is the most painless in Lojban: you wrap an entire predication into &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; brackets (you can omit the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; if no ambiguity results) and the result is suitable as an argument for another predication. So you find yourself saying the Lojban for &amp;quot;I like the event of I swim&amp;quot; even though that is not at all natural in English, because Lojban makes it easy. You can ellipsize it to &amp;quot;mi nelci le nu limna&amp;quot;, omitting the second &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hoping the listener will reconstruct it correctly if you want, but you know that this is ambiguous (or more accurately, vague) because of the omitted place in the embedded predication. The listener is also aware of this vagueness, and can ask &amp;quot;ma limna&amp;quot; (Who swims?) to get clarification.&lt;br /&gt;
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42. cowan: (responding to 32.) [Dialectization] is certainly a known problem. All of us speak more or less pidginized versions of Lojban at best: we tend to exploit features that have parallels in English or our own languages. But the fact that the language is not very &amp;quot;large&amp;quot; means that it is possible to exploit the other re- sources after a modest amount of learning and so prevent Lojban from becoming an English-based code. The Lojban metaphor malglico &#039;that #*%^ English&#039; is applied to the tendency to copy English-based constructions into Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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43. daj: (responding to 42.) As long as it remains a pidgin language, there should be no problem. But your original posting indicated that speakers should be able to extend the language on their own. They can extend the vocabulary by combining the 1300 (?) basic words, and they can extend the expressive power of the language by improvising on the rather unspecialized grammatical structure. But here is where I think things will necessarily go awry. Speakers who extend Lojban on their own will do it in accordance with their own already established linguistic habits, and they will categorize their vocabulary according to their semantic habits (this is only a weak SWH, by the way). To the extent that Lojban becomes a real vehicle for communication, it will take on the characteristics of existing natural languages. It may be fun to see to what extent this can be resisted, but I really think it&#039;s hopeless to think that it can be prevented altogether. &lt;br /&gt;
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44. cowan: (responding to 43.) I agree about &amp;quot;prevented altogether&amp;quot;. We do try to resist, though, sometimes by bending over backwards to avoid &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot;. Consider the following translation of Simonides&#039; epigram at Thermopylae: &amp;quot;ko cusku fi le me la lakedaimon. doi klama do&#039;u fe le nu mi nu tinbe le ri flalu kei morsi&amp;quot;. Literally this is: &amp;quot;(Imperative!) You express to what-I-describe-as pertaining to Lakedaimon, O comer/goer, the event-of (we are (the event-of (something) obeys the laws of the-last-mentioned) kind-of dead).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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I think you will admit that this slop is not English, and that the grammar underlying this Lojban utterance is sui generis and not something derived from English in the manner of a code. (I know no Greek, by the way, so my translation is from English not from Greek.) &lt;br /&gt;
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45. daj: (continuation of 43.) The alternative, of course, would be to extend the language by design. But this would produce either a language that looked like some other human language (and therefore unlike most human languages) or a &amp;quot;PL/1&amp;quot; language, so rich in devices that subsets would develop, fragmenting the language into dialects. &lt;br /&gt;
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46. cowan: (responding to 45.) Indeed, Lojban is comparable to PL/I or Ada in complexity. But its scope is much larger than any programming language&#039;s. If English were to be put in purely phrase-structure form, the result would be incomprehensibly large (to say nothing of desperately ambiguous). I don&#039;t believe that the entire repertoire of Lojban devices is beyond human learning, although some of the recursive complexities made possible may be beyond human understanding (as is the case in English also).&lt;br /&gt;
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47. cowan: (continuation of 42.) In translating a story involving dialogue, for example, I found it necessary to make frequent use of the observational particles of the language, which certainly had no counterpart in the English version. These mean things like &#039;I hear&#039;, &#039;I observe&#039;, &#039;I deduce&#039;, &#039;I know by cultural means&#039;, etc. Likewise, in delivering the lines realistically, it was necessary to supply paralinguistic attitudinal indicators, as Lojban makes no use of tones of voice (part of its phonological unambiguity) that an English-speaker would surely use.&lt;br /&gt;
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48. daj: (responding to 47.) Why? Have these categories become compulsory in your dialect? :)&lt;br /&gt;
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49. cowan: (responding to 48.) Of course not! But to make the meaning of the story clear to those who didn&#039;t belong to my culture, the observationals were indispensable. We know that when somebody says &amp;quot;It must be the wind&amp;quot; in reference to a sound, this is a conclusion from incomplete evidence: but a Mongol tribesman might not. Hence the observational helps to make the cross-cultural meaning clear. For communication among, say, my own family (if they spoke Lojban), I would probably not need such a thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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50. daj: (continuation of 2., from 28.) Frankly, I don&#039;t think the designers of Lojban knew much about language. &lt;br /&gt;
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51. cowan: (responding to 50.) Guilty, especially in the beginning. But we&#039;ve learned a lot, even if we take a non- standard slant on some things. Lojban/Loglan has a &amp;quot;historical&amp;quot; dimension as well, even if the history is only some 35 years old, and there are things in the language that probably would be removed now or changed if an a priori redesign were done.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is not designed to be a &amp;quot;universal notation&amp;quot;, just a language. Although it shares many features with other languages, it is clearly not a dialect or a code or a jargon. It has its own feature set and its own characteristic way of exploiting the set: the set is large, but the language is still small because of its high degree of regularity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether it is possible to internalize the language, in the sense of gaining Chomsky-competence, is still an open issue. I believe it is possible: I am beginning to think in the language&#039;s terms now, and so are several other ad- vanced students; some of the paralinguistics are also becoming internalized.&lt;br /&gt;
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52. daj: (responding to 51.) I have to apologize for my snotty attitude there. You&#039;ve obviously done more homework than I thought at first.&lt;br /&gt;
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I still can&#039;t help thinking, though, that you&#039;re underestimating the incredible complexity of human language, both in its use and in its potential for change. I doubt that you will be able to create a language free of irregularity, ambiguity, etc. On the other hand, you may have a really interesting semi-laboratory experiment in the process of creolization, and that would make the whole thing worthwhile in itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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53. cowan: (responding to 52.) Well, new purposes always help. These letters are being passed to the president of the Logical Language Group, by the way - I hope you don&#039;t mind - for comments.&lt;br /&gt;
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54. daj: (responding to 53.) I&#039;ll try to watch more and snarl less. Thanks for the education.&lt;br /&gt;
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55. cowan: (responding to 54.) je&#039;e .uicai (&amp;quot;Roger. Happy!!!)&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Why use Lojban for S/W?&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;dan@YOYODYNE.MIT.EDU (Dan Parmenter)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Rod Johnson)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. dan: S/W is pretty much disavowed by the linguistic orthodoxy in this country. I&#039;m told that anthropologists are still interested in it, but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. rjohnson: (responding to 1.) There is no linguistic orthodoxy in this country (and why do national boundaries enter into this question anyway? There is certainly no linguistic orthodoxy in the world). Linguists are a pretty fractious bunch. There may be a generative orthodoxy (though I doubt it), but they don&#039;t speak for me.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. dan: (responding to 2.) When was the last time you saw an article in any of the journals on Sapir-Whorf?&lt;br /&gt;
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4. rjohnson: (responding to 3.) Well, I suppose it depends on which journals you look at. I&#039;ve seen articles fairly recently that are &amp;quot;Whorfian&amp;quot; in some sense here and there. It&#039;s certainly not a major topic in the field at present, but there are any number of reasons that could be, includ- ing:&lt;br /&gt;
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* it&#039;s held to be clearly true;&lt;br /&gt;
* it&#039;s held to be clearly false;&lt;br /&gt;
* other ideas are exciting people nowadays;&lt;br /&gt;
* people are stumped as to how to approach it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My guess is that it&#039;s all of the above, variously.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. dan: (continuation of 3.) The introductory textbooks on linguistics that I&#039;ve looked at seem to cover the topic [of S/W] briefly, if at all, and then as a discredited hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. rjohnson: (responding to 5.) In the totally unscientific sample of textbooks on my desk, Lyons has a fairly sympathetic discussion of it; Finegan and Besnier have only a page or so, mostly sympathetic but critical; Eysenck&#039;s cognitive psych textbook gives it an extended but guarded treatment; Bolinger gives it a mild thumbs down (&amp;quot;exaggerated&amp;quot;) but is essentially in sympathy with some form of the idea; and Akmajian et al. don&#039;t mention it anywhere I can find. Everyone that mentions it finds it attractive but in need of revision or special understanding. Finegan and Besnier, for instance, say: &amp;quot;Today few scholars take the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis lit- erally. Many linguists take the position that language may have some influence on thought but thought may also influence the structure of language&amp;quot; etc. If we strip away the mealymouthedness (which I&#039;ve spared you most of), they seem to be saying that the influence goes both ways, a position that neither Sapir nor Whorf would have any objection to.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. dan: (continuation of 3., from 5.) This doesn&#039;t disprove anything, but it certainly seems to indicate a lack of interest in the subject currently. I didn&#039;t mean to imply that all linguists were of one mind, but on this topic, there seems to be a pretty general agreement, in what I&#039;ve read.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. rjohnson: (responding to 7.) I&#039;ll agree there&#039;s not a whole lot of interest among the people who currently dominate the field. This is not to say that those people are committed to a position on either side of the issue - it&#039;s just not relevant to their work. &amp;quot;Exotic&amp;quot; languages are no longer the center of interest that they were in the heyday of Sapir and Whorf. That doesn&#039;t mean the issue is resolved, though. &lt;br /&gt;
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9. rjohnson: (continuation of 2.) No matter how you try to slant the issue, the status of the Sapir-Whorf &amp;quot;hypothesis&amp;quot; is still very unclear. (Personally, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s even a hypothesis; it&#039;s a problematic, it&#039;s a topos, it&#039;s an ideological litmus test.) But in any event, though there may be unanimity on this point in some linguistics departments dominated by Chomskyans, for the rest of us (and that&#039;s most of us) the debate is still alive. (No anti-Chomsky animus expressed or implied.)&lt;br /&gt;
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You don&#039;t know enough about linguistics [either]. Anyway, the question of orthodoxy is beside the point. This is not something you vote over. There have been some suggestive studies on both sides; there has been nothing conclusive, and I see little indication that most of the partisans on both sides have really gotten to terms with what the debate is all about. \&lt;br /&gt;
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10. dan: (responding to 9.) I&#039;m calling it as I&#039;ve seen it. When I was hyped up on Sapir-Whorf myself a few years ago, I went through any number of texts looking for information on it and came to the conclusion that most linguists that I read seem to disavow it. I guess I read the wrong books. Even the anti-Chomsky linguists didn&#039;t seem to have much to say on the matter.&lt;br /&gt;
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11. rjohnson: (responding to 10.) This isn&#039;t some kind of insult: you don&#039;t know enough about linguistics to say. There are several reasons for this:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# No one does. The field is too big and too heterogeneous, the social networks too fractured, to be able to gauge consensus adequately.&lt;br /&gt;
# As you just told us, you&#039;re not a trained linguist (yet). Pronouncements about what&#039;s orthodox are hazardous enough for the most highly trained finger-licker (if you follow the imagery); one&#039;s words have a way of coming back and biting one on the ass here.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... but I don&#039;t know enough about anthropology to say.&amp;quot; But anthropology, and psycholinguistics, and rhetoric, and such areas, are where a lot of the SW work goes on nowadays. These people aren&#039;t disqualified from contributing simply because they don&#039;t hold down lines in the budget of a linguistics department.&lt;br /&gt;
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12. dan: (responding to 9., from 10.) I never said anything about &amp;quot;voting&amp;quot; on anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. rjohnson: (responding to 12.) But isn&#039;t that what orthodoxy amounts to? Chomsky was took a few highly unorthodox positions once, and was roundly &amp;quot;outvoted&amp;quot; by the field. That changed. It&#039;s arguments that decide these things, and evidence (and funding, and ...), not which way the wind is blowing in any given decade. Orthodoxy is fickle. 20 years ago everyone was into intrinsic rule ordering, squishes and (trans)derivational constraints. No one talks about them now - but the underlying problems are still there waiting to be explored. Likewise the complex of problems and questions people lump together as &amp;quot;the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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14. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) If I&#039;m missing something, please let me know, rather than telling me I don&#039;t know what I&#039;m talking about. As it happens, I have tried to learn about s/w and have considered the issue at great length. I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob? I don&#039;t think so.&lt;br /&gt;
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15. rjohnson: (responding to 14.) Dan, I thought you didn&#039;t take this personally! Of course you&#039;re not an ignorant boob, not at all.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, it would be a lot of fun to handle this this way:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;I admit, that in the course of this thread, I&#039;ve made some mistakes, but does that qualify me as an ignorant boob?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry - the weak must die. :)&lt;br /&gt;
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16. dan: (responding to 9., from 12.) In several cases, I&#039;ve misunderstood what people were saying, and been misunderstood in kind. This happens, but I like to think that I&#039;m relatively informed about linguistics, based on my education and my intent to pursue graduate studies in the field.&lt;br /&gt;
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[... continuing on the same topic later]&lt;br /&gt;
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17. dan: [SWH] is something I&#039;m rather interested in (as a curiosity, I used to be utterly convinced by it too), and I&#039;m actually glad the Lojbanists have dredged it up for serious discussion again. I question their methods though, why not do psychological tests on existing languages, rather than trying to come up with a whole new one? Presumably, if S/W is confirmed by the Lojban project, no one would assume that it is only true for Lojban itself. This goes back to my feeling that Lojban is at best, an intellectual puzzle. If you can learn it and gain some degree of fluency in it, well that&#039;s fine for some people. Not for me.&lt;br /&gt;
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18. dtate: (responding to 17.) Hey, we agree! Weird...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
S/W is about natural languages, of which we have lots. Presumably, if S/W is true, then it is true now, for the languages currently being used. The only problem might be if all current natural languages are sufficiently similar in their world-views that S/W doesn&#039;t kick in. If this is true, then it would constitute (IMHO) a practical refutation of S/W, since S/W was originally motivated by observation of the divergence among current natural languages. There is theoretical interest in knowing if a constructed language like Lojban has a detectable effect on thought patterns, but not nearly as strong as the interest in whether there is a difference between (say) Korean and Japanese thought patterns, or German vs. French, or Sioux vs. Hopi.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;d go even farther, though, and question what it is that we hope to learn using Lojban that we couldn&#039;t learn better (and more easily) using natural languages. There&#039;s hardly any chance of Lojban ever becoming a widespread native tongue, so any conclusions we get about people whose primary language is Lojban will include the strong bias of self-selection for Lojban proficiency by the subject or some close relative of the subject...&lt;br /&gt;
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19. cowan: (responding to 18.) [We hope to learn] the same kinds of things we learn about the mechanics of falling bodies by rolling them down inclined planes rather than dropping them from the Leaning Tower of Pisa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;JCB&#039;s [the founder of Loglan] plan was to attempt to build a language tool that would have the major features of natural languages, but would have some strong warping in its structure that was deviant from all other natural lan- guages. This warping would attempt to take normal structures that presumably set limits on thought, and &#039;push them outward in some predictable dimension&#039;. His language tool would be an extreme case, not a &#039;typical language&#039; but &#039;a severely atypical one&#039;, in order to enable any Whorfian effects to be more easily seen. He attempted to put &#039;decisive but non-essential differences&#039; into the language; he still needed the language to be speakable....&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The structural extreme he chose was to model the grammar on the well-understood structures of symbolic logic. There are no natural languages based on a predicate grammar, yet logicians are skilled at analyzing the structural relationships between natural language and formal logic.... The essence of these concepts is that &#039;it forces on its speakers a reasonably small set of assumptions about the world ... perhaps the smallest possible set&#039;. &#039;Any speaker, from any culture, should find it possible to express in Loglan what he takes for granted about the world ... without imposing ... or being able to impose these as- sumptions on his auditor&#039;....&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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(Outer text by Robert LeChevalier, from Ju&#039;i Lobypli #6. Inner quotations are from James Cooke Brown, Loglan 1, 3rd Edition.)&lt;br /&gt;
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20. lojbab: (responding to 18.) Psychological and other tests of S/W were performed using natural languages in the 1950&#039;s - at least two large studies, though I don&#039;t have references handy. They turned up fairly negative results, and this is one reason why S/W went into eclipse. (Other factors included an inability to agree even on what the actual hypothesis was; i.e. how to formulate it, the racial/political issue, attacks on Whorf&#039;s scholarly credentials, and the rise of Chomsky&#039;s theories which were orthogonal to S/W and soon attracted all the money).&lt;br /&gt;
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The tests were not conclusive, though. One major problem is that with natural languages, you can&#039;t ever be sure that hidden cultural features might obscure the results. There are also more variables to control with natural language speakers. (This is NOT the same as saying natural languages are &#039;too similar&#039;; merely that we don&#039;t know how to test for the differences.)&lt;br /&gt;
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How does Lojban improve on this? Being better defined as a language than any natural language allows better monitoring of actual usage vs. some theoretical norm. Having a structure drastically different from any natural language should lead to a much larger S/W effect than between two natural languages. Furthermore, if a S/W effect is found, its nature and manifestation will help ex- perimental design for a new test based on natural languages, when we better understand what we&#039;re looking for. Being culture-free (at least initially) makes it much easier to filter out cultural effects. Being different from all language families allows better cross-cultural studies. Because there are several identifiable areas of structural difference, there is a greater likelihood of finding effects that may be constrained by the TYPE of structure (S/W may not be general, only specific to certain types of structures).&lt;br /&gt;
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As to Lojban becoming widely spoken, you have to decide how wide the goal is. Esperanto managed up to a million speakers in 100 years, and the world population and mass media needed for rapid expansion of a language teaching effort should make Lojban&#039;s potential expansion rate significantly higher, if people find a reason to learn it. Right now the primary such reason is as a linguistic toy, as Dan accuses, since there is no obvious financial gain. Thus we indeed have considerable self-selection in the community today. This can easily change:&lt;br /&gt;
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* development of computer applications could make learning Lojban a necessity external to personal choice in some fields;&lt;br /&gt;
* development of cross-cultural/foreign language education applications could lead to more widespread use of Lojban at a low level by large segments of population. Some of these will pursue more advanced study of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
* identifying any preliminary S/W effects that are perceived as beneficial will greatly heighten interest in learning the language among potential beneficiaries.&lt;br /&gt;
* if research using Lojban is funded, some people might actually be paid to learn Lojban as test subjects (and teach it to their children?). These would presumably be chosen to negate self-selection factors, though willingness to accept payment for this sort of thing is itself a kind of selection (all psychological studies of volunteers could be questioned on this basis, but such studies are standard in the field, so presumably there is capability to filter out such bias in the testing methods).&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, if the language in useful as a tool, it will be used. As the size and diversity of the community grows, self-selection becomes less of a bias factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, self-selection isn&#039;t an irremediable bias. Nor is the lack of a large community of speakers. In internal discussions, some Loglan/ Lojban supporters have argued for preliminary S/W testing using second-language adults, notably language inventor J. C. Brown who proposed in his book on the language (Loglan 1, 4th edition) a study where adults of several cultures are all taught Loglan over a summer and tested before and after for changes in &#039;the way they think&#039;. (I personally think his design to be flawed and too simplistic, but if Lojban&#039;s S/W effects are truly dramatic, they could show up in 2nd language fluent speakers. And such appearance would pretty much guarantee that people would find a way to build a testable &#039;culture&#039; of 1st language speakers, perhaps by raising children bilingually during the &#039;critical period&#039;, or even from birth.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, current thinking in the community is that &#039;logical&#039; thought or expression is not necessarily the aspect most likely to generate noticeable S/W effects. The removal of grammatical ambiguity from modification (as exemplified by the much-discussed plastic cat food lid) seems to heighten creative exploration of word combination. This comes from self-observation, and is a linguistic toy feature, but could lead to profound changes in problem- solving in a community speaking Lojban, which ought to qualify as a bona-fide S/W effect.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other areas of possible benefit are (surprisingly in a &#039;logical&#039; language) emotional expression. Lojban has a fully developed set of metalinguistic and emotional attitude indicators that supplant much of the baggage of aspect and mood found in natural languages, but most clearly separate indicative statements from the emotional communication associated with those statements. This might lead to freer expression and consideration of ideas, since stating an idea can be distinguished from supporting that idea. The set of possible indicators is also large enough to provide specificity and clarity of emotions that is difficult in natural languages. It is easy to imagine enormous changes in communicative activities that involve emotions, and corresponding &#039;world view&#039; changes as a result. Again, only time will tell.&lt;br /&gt;
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Time is a significant factor here in evaluating Lojban&#039;s relevance to linguistics today. In the next 10 years, there will be ONLY 2nd language adults and perhaps a few children raised by non-fluent adults. For at least a generation after that, immediate self-selection will be a significant potential factor, and Lojban will be at best questionably a &#039;living language&#039;, making its results less than certain.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, for linguists TODAY, interest in Lojban can be tied to any of several major channels:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* possible use of 2nd language speakers to get preliminary ideas on whether S/W is likely;&lt;br /&gt;
* making sure that Lojban&#039;s design is as linguistically sound as we can make it given current linguistic knowledge, ensuring that eventual S/W results are meaningful;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing tools and techniques for eventual S/W testing; trying to identify what the effects will be and how they can be detected;&lt;br /&gt;
* actually participating in the language community, using your linguistic skills to help quickly build a set of initial usage patterns based on the unambiguous language (and vocabulary, idiom, etc.) that when passed on to &#039;native speakers&#039; in the future provides them with a better, more robust, starting point for evolutionary change;&lt;br /&gt;
* developing techniques of teaching the language as a second language, when there is no existing idiom. Related to this is possibly using Lojban&#039;s simple structures and culture-free properties to enhance language education.&lt;br /&gt;
* preparing other, non-S/W related research based on Lojban&#039;s features and its availability as a experimental linguistics platform or alternatively as a totally self- contained &#039;model&#039; of a language;&lt;br /&gt;
* using Lojban for other linguistic research that is not as dependent on a &#039;native&#039; base, including studies of language learning (1st and 2nd), as a medium for culture- free recording of linguistic information in studies of other languages (translating to English may help an English-native reader of your paper get the gist of what a foreign language is saying, but is subject to all the problems of English cultural usage and ambiguity. There are a lot of non-native English readers who may not be aware of those features. (In short, using Lojban as an &#039;international language of linguistics&#039; much as IPA serves for phonetics).&lt;br /&gt;
* and finally, serving as peer reviewers to make sure that those of us working directly on the project don&#039;t get our heads too far into the clouds. This of course requires that you know something of what we&#039;re trying to do, which is why we keep bombarding this forum with so many long messages :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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The following are additions to the bibliography of Sapir- Whorf Hypothesis materials compiled during the discussions on the computer networks.&lt;br /&gt;
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Here are some references to discussions of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. One is recent; the Fishman article as far as I know has not really been replied to anywhere that I know of. (The first part of the bibliography is courtesy of Alan Munn, University of Maryland, who made these com- ments).&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown, R. (1957) &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism and Parts of Speech&amp;quot;, Journal of Abnormal Social Psychology 55, 1-5.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown, R. and E. Lenneberg (1958) &amp;quot;Studies in Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in E. Maccoby, T. H. Newcomb &amp;amp; E. L. Hartley (eds.), Readings in Social Psychology (3rd ed.), New York: Holt, Rinehart &amp;amp; Winston, pp. 9-18.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
In the same volume, &amp;quot;The Function of Language Classification in Behavior&amp;quot;, by John B. Carroll and Joseph B. Casagrande, pp. 18-31. &lt;br /&gt;
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Fishman, J. (1960) &amp;quot;A Systematization of the Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Behavioral Science 5, pp. 232-239. &lt;br /&gt;
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Hoijer, H. (1954) Language in Culture (Comparative Studies of Cultures and Civilizations, No. 3; Memoirs of the American Anthropological Association, No. 79), Chicago: University of Chicago Press. &lt;br /&gt;
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Kay, P. and W. Kempton (1984) &amp;quot;What is the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?&amp;quot;, American Anthropologist pp. 86, 65-79. &lt;br /&gt;
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Whorf, B.L. (1939) &amp;quot;The relation of habitual thought and behavior to language&amp;quot;, in B.L. Whorf (1956) The Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, Cambridge MA: MIT Press. &lt;br /&gt;
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These articles are both for and against SWH; The Brown papers and the Kay/Kempton paper are attempts to test the hypothesis. The Fishman article discusses the results of some experiments and where they leave us with respect to various versions of SW. &lt;br /&gt;
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Other Sapir-Whorf references: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alford, Danny K. 1978. &amp;quot;The Demise of the Whorf Hypothesis (A Major Revision in the History of Linguistics)&amp;quot;, Proceedings of the 4th Annual Meeting of the Berkeley Linguistic Society 4:485-99.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hymes, Dell, 1968. &amp;quot;Two Types of Linguistic Relativity&amp;quot;, in Sociolinguistics: Proceedings of the UCLA Sociolinguistics Conference (1964). Ed. by W. Bright. Janua Linguarum Series Major, 20. Mouton: The Hague. pp. 114-167.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy, John, 1985. &amp;quot;Whorf&#039;s View of the Linguistic Mediation of Thought&amp;quot;, in E. Mertz and R. J. Parmentier, Semiotic Mediation: Sociocultural and Psychosocial Perspectives, Orlando: Academic Press.&lt;br /&gt;
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McNeill, David, 1987. &amp;quot;Linguistic Determinism: The Whorfian Hypothesis&amp;quot;, Chapter 6 of Psycholinguistics, A New Approach, New York: Harper and Row. pp. 173-209.&lt;br /&gt;
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Subject: Esperanto and Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
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Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neal@druhi.ATT.COM (Neal D. McBurnett)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;daj@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;loren@tristan.llnl.gov (Loren Petrich)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
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1. neal: Esperanto is much easier to learn than English or any other ethnic language because it has few irregularities and it has a phonetic writing system. In studies done with English school children it was demonstrated that one year of instruction in Esperanto gave the students the same level of language competence as five years of studying French. Once you learn to conjugate one verb, you know how to conjugate them all!&lt;br /&gt;
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2. daj: (responding to 1.) I agree 100% that an artificial language is easier to learn as a second language, and as a medium of international communication, something like Esperanto may make more sense than English. In fact, after teaching English as a foreign language for a couple of years, I came to the conclusion that it would make much more sense to teach Pidgin English than real English.&lt;br /&gt;
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But when pidgins become the primary language of a community, they cease to be regular and simple. Why? Is creolization a degenerative process, or do the irregularities have a function in language? I think we need an answer to this question before we assume that we can construct a &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot; language and use it as a real medium of communication.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) On the other hand, why not invent a completely regular language, with a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; that values that regularity, and observe what if any irregularities come into existence.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. dtate: (responding to 3.) Because you can&#039;t create a &#039;cultural ethic&#039; by fiat.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. lojbab: (continuation of 3.) Lojban is not limited in linguistic research application to testing Sapir-Whorf; I&#039;ve given a lot of my own effort to ensuring that the design is robust enough to allow other studies. Pidgins and creoles of the world have all evolved from interaction between two or more already irregular and highly complex languages. Variables to watch in analyzing the evolution of the language are too many and too poorly understood. Lojban is both much simpler and highly regular. Presumably as a result, the variables affecting pidginization and creolization, and indeed all other manner of linguistic change will stand out much better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Furthermore, as a fledgling &#039;international language&#039; that differs structurally from all of the &#039;first languages&#039; of the world, the studies of evolutionary processes can be conducted over and again as Lojban interacts with each of the languages and cultures in which it is introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other areas of possible Lojban application include language universals (Lojban is relatively neutral on some of these, supporting many competing forms; the ones that survive or spread as the language becomes a &#039;living&#039; language&#039; are thus worth studying to find out why.) and universal grammar (if Lojban proves to be acquired by chil- dren and adults as easily as natural languages, UG will have to be able to explain it).&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that a small number of Lojban speakers (especially in a specific speaking locale) would be expected to show evolutionary effects more quickly, enhancing the chances of observing such effects during a short research period. We&#039;ve set an early prescriptive policy towards the language precisely to allow enough of a fluent speaker base to form to preserve some type of linguistic identity to serve as a starting point.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. pepke: (responding to 2.) &amp;quot;Degenerative&amp;quot; is kind of a loaded term. It may just be the point of view. If you start off with an artificially &amp;quot;perfect&amp;quot; language, just about any change will seem degenerative.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. lojbab: (responding to 6.) Not in the case of Lojban. ONLY a change that introduces structural ambiguity is automatically &#039;frowned upon&#039;, and I personally doubt there is a major evolutionary force in language that promotes such ambiguity &#039;for it&#039;s own sake&#039; - there would have to be some other explanation for an ambiguity to be introduced.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most other types of changes (word formation rules, phonological changes, preference in word order among them) would not be inherently degenerative. No one in the Lojban community thinks that we&#039;ve created a &#039;perfect&#039; language, only an &#039;adequate&#039; one for communication and linguistic research. &lt;br /&gt;
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8. loren: (later in the discussion) I wonder how Lojban handles (1) words for opposites and (2) verb aspects (if present).&lt;br /&gt;
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9. cowan: (responding to 8.) The term &amp;quot;opposite&amp;quot; is a bit vague. Among its 1300+ root words, some have &amp;quot;opposites&amp;quot; and some don&#039;t. There are words for both &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; is a root but &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is not. Since the root words are primarily chosen for ease-of-use in making compounds, this was justified primarily by the desire to make shorter compounds.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a faction which has argued that there are too many root words (and that opposites in particular should be stripped out); another faction holds that there are too few (that choosing &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is an unwanted bias). In fact, having a list of root words at all is ipso facto a bias, but it is a known bias which can be allowed for. The alternative is having to construct 4-5 million distinct words with no compounding rules at all to cover the vocabulary range of the world&#039;s languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The general Lojban solution lies in the four particles &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot;, which are four kinds of scalar negation. This is distinct from contradictory negation (&amp;quot;It is not the case that...&amp;quot;) which is represented in Lojban by &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;naku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot; is nonspecific scalar negation, analogous to English &amp;quot;non-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;lo na&#039;e gerku&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;a non-dog&amp;quot;, which in principle could be anything that is not a dog, but probably means some other kind of animal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; is polar opposite scalar negation, analogous to some uses of English &amp;quot;un-&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;in-&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Beautiful&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;melbi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;to&#039;e melbi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;large&amp;quot;) means the same as &amp;quot;to&#039;e cmalu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;unsmall&amp;quot;), and vice versa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; is scalar neutral negation. This arises when a scale whose opposing ends are &amp;quot;X&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e X&amp;quot; has a natural midpoint. &amp;quot;no&#039;e melbi&amp;quot; for example might be translated &amp;quot;plain&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ordinary-looking&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;je&#039;a&amp;quot; is affirmation, and has the same meaning as no particle at all. It is chiefly useful to deny one of the other particles in conversation [ed. note, also for emphatic affirmation].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Lojban also has another type of negation called metalinguistic negation, where the adequacy of the utterance is denied due to category mistake or what have you. The particle &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot; indicates that what precedes it (or the whole last utterance, if nothing precedes in this utterance) is erroneous in some such way. If a Lojbanist asks another:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
xu do sisti le zu&#039;o do rapdarxi le do fetspe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
literally:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
(True or false?) You cease the activity of repeat-hitting your female-spouse?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or idiomatically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Have you stopped beating your wife?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a good and sufficient answer is &amp;quot;na&#039;i&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The above sentence could be expressed with the aspect grammar rather than with the word &amp;quot;sisti&amp;quot; (cease), but I don&#039;t know the language well enough to do so yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense/aspect system of Lojban is one of the most complex parts of the grammar, and I am far from sure that I understand it altogether. Fortunately, it is 100% optional. Everything it can express can also be expressed semantically through the predicate grammar, or just omitted altogether.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rather than trying to explain the whole thing systematically, I will simply give an unsystematic catalogue of the kinds of things that can be expressed. Note: any of these items may be combined either by logical connectives (and, or, xor, etc.) or by non-logical ones (joined with, mixed with, union, intersection, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also worth mentioning that Lojban tense is &amp;quot;sticky&amp;quot; and that once set it propagates to all following untensed sentences [ed. note: This is the default pragmatic interpretation for many contexts; however there may be contextual circumstances where tense does not carry over, such as:] In stories, this is modified a bit by the assumption that narrative flows in time, so each sentence may represent a time later than that of the preceding one. One may, however, by proper use of the time offset machinery, tell stories backwards or inside-out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, Lojban tense handles both time relations and space relations, where time may be treated either as sui generis or in an Einsteinian way as the fourth spatial dimension. Time and space are formally parallel: for each, there is a way of specifying an origin, one or more offsets from the origin (directions in time or space), and an interval around the point thus determined. In the case of space only, the interval may be specified as 1-, 2-, 3- or 4- dimensional. In addition, there is machinery for rep- resenting motions in space, but not in time. Should time travel become practicable, the 4-dimensional facilities of the space motion grammar may become useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Intervals may also be modified by either or both of two kinds of modifiers. One type is a quantified tense, which may be either objective (corresponding to English &amp;quot;never&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;once&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;twice&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; for time, or &amp;quot;nowhere&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;in one place&amp;quot;, ..., &amp;quot;everywhere&amp;quot; for space) or subjective (things like &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;continuously&amp;quot;). The other type is an &amp;quot;event contour&amp;quot;, handling things like &amp;quot;during&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the (natural) end of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;after the termination of&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also a mechanism for specifying the actuality/potentiality status of a predication: things like &amp;quot;can and has&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;can but has not&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Separate from all this, Lojban prepositions (really case tags) can be used as adverbials also, and are grammatically almost interchangeable with the tenses. Likewise, the tenses can be used prepositionally. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; represents the past tense (time direction in the past), but means &amp;quot;earlier than&amp;quot; as a preposition. &amp;quot;bai&amp;quot; on the other hand is the preposition &amp;quot;under the compulsion of&amp;quot; but means &amp;quot;forcedly&amp;quot; when used as an aspectual. This list of prepositions/adverbials/ aspectuals/case tags is extensible to any predicate whatsoever by using the particle &amp;quot;fi&#039;o&amp;quot; which makes a predicate into an aspectual.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Lojban gismu Vocabulary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ivan Derzhanski&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. lojbab: [part of a longer discussion on Lojban roots] We wanted to maximize ease of learning, BUT not at the expense of cultural neutrality. Loglan (generic) thus maximizes reflecting the sequences of phonemes in a given word from the corresponding words in the source languages, weighted by speaker population. Thus &#039;blanu&#039; has the phonemes in order of English &#039;blue&#039; and Chinese &#039;lan&#039; (with appropriate tone which I don&#039;t have handy). The result is intended to be words that are distinctly different from those of any one language, but which sound &#039;natural&#039; to speakers of the source languages and also have an indirect cognate value - not one that is necessarily obvious, but one that can be used to learn the word if it is pointed out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. ivan: (responding to 1.) If it is pointed out indeed. I speak Russian, English, Spanish and Hindi, and I know some Arabic, but my attempts to analyze some Lojban words and to discover their roots failed almost totally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. lojbab: (responding to 2.) At first contact, you WILL need to have the connection pointed out. But I suspect that after the connections are pointed out for a few words, someone with your language experience will begin to see the patterns. One problem, of course, is that we go for aural recognition, NOT visual recognition, and use Lojbanized phonetics. The Procrustean bed of Lojban morphology (all roots are of the pattern CCVCV or CVCCV) also constrains the result enormously. The algorithm we use attempts, within the framework of this morphology, to maximize aural recognition for an active student of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Incidentally, once you get used to them, the regularities in Lojban words have their own aesthetic value, just as Nick&#039;s portmanteau words from Esperanto do. Lojban words have a lot of medial &#039;n&#039; and &#039;r&#039; and initial fricatives &#039;j&#039;, &#039;c&#039;, and &#039;s&#039;, all derived from the heavy Chinese weighting. I have a little trouble with the fricatives unless I&#039;m relaxed - I get &#039;she sells sea shells&#039; type tongue twisters, but I presume the Chinese will find it pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. ivan: (responding to 4.) No offence intended, but I&#039;d like to hear the Chinese confirm this. For all you know, they may not. Schleyer went out of his way to put as few &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;s as possible in Volapk words, so that the Chinese will be happy. I hope at least his Chinese find it easy to say &amp;quot;obs&amp;quot; `we&#039; or &amp;quot;coecs&amp;quot; `government officials&#039; (i.e. `judges&#039;), because I don&#039;t. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. lojbab: (responding to 5.) That of course is the problem with any a priori word-making scheme. Especially without strong aid from native speakers. We have had one Chinese speaker look at this question directly, but since she is also fluent in German and English, she isn&#039;t necessarily an unbiased observer. The reason for the high sibilant frequencies though, is that several Chinese consonants map into Lojban &#039;c&#039;, &#039;s&#039;, and &#039;j&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still, there is a balancing act. Chinese is favored by the weighting scheme, but as you point out, we have &#039;r&#039; and &#039;l&#039; as phonemes which are much more common in other languages. Still, a high percentage of Lojban roots have syllable ending &#039;-an&#039; making &#039;n&#039; such a common letter in the language, its frequency exceeds most vowels (in a language more vowel rich than English because of all the CV and CVV structure words).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We had to make guesses on how to achieve recognizability in other languages, (and were also constrained to be consistent with 30 years of prior work by language inventor Brown). Ideally, there would have been scientific testing of our algorithm in native speakers of each language before making the words, but this wasn&#039;t possible and indeed wasn&#039;t important enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The important thing was to have a neutral word-making method that did not favor any one language population, and paid at least lip service to recognizing language diversity. We also wanted non-random words, with phonemes occurring in orders that are speakable and familiar, and we got this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 4.) Some of the initial consonant clusters look intimidating, but Ivan won&#039;t mind them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. ivan: (responding to 7.) I certainly don&#039;t. I don&#039;t take them all for granted, but they are not intimidating in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9. lojbab: (continuation of 7.) (and might prefer them)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10. ivan: (responding to 9.) ... prefer them to what? Not to simple consonant-vowel alternation, no. I wouldn&#039;t miss the clusters if they weren&#039;t there. But they are, and I won&#039;t complain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11. lojbab: (responding to 10.) One of the most frequent comments about Lojban words is that the consonant clusters look hard to English speakers, and this was more an answer to this criticism than a claim about the aesthetics of Slavic language speakers. Still, it seems a reasonable presumption that most people feel more comfortable with a language that sounds a little like their own. Interestingly, our phonology has a result that several people with experience with a variety of languages have said that Lojban (as I speak it) sounds like a south Slavic language. It will be interesting at some point to have a southern Slavic speaker confirm this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The range of consonant clusters we permit in Lojban was augmented after a Slavic languages expert pointed out that our set was extremely tame and excessively constraining on the words and their recognition. Lojban root words can be recognized as roots by the presence of the consonant cluster - which is never found in structure words and al- ways found in predicate words. We thus constrained the set of clusters in medial position by disallowing voiced/unvoiced mixing of stops and fricatives, doubled consonants, and most mixed sibilants. Permitted initial clusters are a subset of these (48), which are phonetically symmetric (thus, because we allow the unvoiced &#039;st&#039;, we allow the voiced equivalent &#039;zd&#039;, even though it isn&#039;t found in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Languages require a certain amount of redundancy to be understandable. My own comparative examination seems to indicate that most languages have either consonant clusters or tones, and that having one seems to minimize the evolutionary pressure towards the other. Polynesian and Japanese are the only exceptions to this I know of (and Japanese actually has some clusters, though they aren&#039;t reflected in the writing system). Can anybody confirm or deny my observation? What other techniques are found in languages that improve redundancy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12. lojbab: (continuation of 1., from 7. and 9.) So we end up with a language that has some aesthetic appeal for everyone, but perhaps doesn&#039;t satisfy everyone; a pleasant cultural tension/ balance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. ivan: (responding to 12.) And again, don&#039;t stress too much on the aesthetic side. It is too subjective. It is up to the person. Let&#039;s talk efficiency and ease.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. lojbab: (responding to 13.) Aesthetics is enormously important, even though subjective. It determines people&#039;s first reactions to the language. Efficiency can be quantified, and is more objective, as you say. But languages need some minimum redundancy and I suspect that we don&#039;t know what that minimum is. So pushing too hard in this direction might give a language that is too efficient to be practical (Anyone for Speedtalk - Heinlein&#039;s language in &#039;Gulf&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15. lojbab: (continuation of 1.) Thus spaghetti becomes &#039;djarspageti&#039;, with the &#039;dja&#039; from &#039;cidja&#039;, the word for &#039;food&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16. ivan: (responding to 15.) &amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; is the Chinese _shi4_, I presume. What is &amp;quot;dja&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
17. lojbab: (responding to 16.) Ivan Derzhanski asked about the Lojban etymologies, and gave &#039;cidja&#039; as an example word. It is halfway down this list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are rough etymologies of a sampling of Lojban words. These are being assembled for eventual publication as a set, but we have to manually reconstruct what the computer-run algorithm did for each word. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is key to remember that we often ran several words from a single language against words from other languages in order to select the word with the highest score. In some cases, this means that the word from a language that &#039;won&#039; is not the best word for the concept in the language. Instead, subject to a little educated guesswork, we have words that offer a reasonable cognate-like memory hook between the Lojban word and a related source-language word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second note, is that words are Lojbanized phonetically. This can result in some strange-looking spellings; e.g. English and Russian vowels and final consonants often change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll schematically outline the information for the first word:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714c      katna	82.00	     cut                       &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
[Algo     [Lojban	[score	     [English                  &lt;br /&gt;
run	#]    word]	(0-100)]     keyword]                  &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This line is from a summary file of algorithm outputs, prepared manually at the time we made the words.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
kan kat kat kort kas kata&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojbanized phonetic forms of the source language words - the order of words is Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, Arabic. We have not yet manually gone back to our paper originals to get the Romanized natural language spellings. Note: some declensional word endings were systematically removed to get a true root. This was to avoid getting a false recognition score solely from the declension. The stop component of affricates were removed for the same reason. There were a few other systematic a priori modifications to the source language words that I can respond to if anyone has questions about a word. Note that the source word may not be the best word for the concept in the language. We aren&#039;t expert in all these languages, and in any case wanted to have a memory hook for the word more than a cognate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(cut )&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[English keyword from the algorithm output file]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
katna 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Lojban word and score from the output file - there were occasional typos in making the manual summary, which we are only now finding (about 3-4% error rate - we were working quickly and didn&#039;t check ourselves well). The 6 digits are scores for the 6 source words, in order. The numbers represent phoneme matches, in order - a score of 1 was considered useless for recognition, and a score of 2 required the phonemes to be adjacent or separated by exactly one phoneme in BOTH source and Lojban. Thus &#039;kort&#039; from Spanish gets a 0 score even though it has some cognate value.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  katna	    82.00     cut                              &lt;br /&gt;
      kan kat kat kort kas kata                            &lt;br /&gt;
      (cut	)                                              &lt;br /&gt;
      katna	 82.00 3 3 3 0 2 4                             &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714c  klaku	60.90	  weep (cry)			    &lt;br /&gt;
      ku krai vilap ior	plak baka			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (weep  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      klaku  60.90 2 2 2 0 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  krixa	61.30	  cry out			    &lt;br /&gt;
      xan krai cila grit kric sarax			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (cry out	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      krixa  61.30 2 3 2 2 3 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714c  kulnu	45.20	  culture			    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur takaf		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sabiat kultur kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      uen kalcr	sanskrit kultur	kultur tarbut		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (culture	)                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      kulnu  45.20 2 2 0 4 4 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  mitre	89.40	  meter				    &lt;br /&gt;
      mi mitr mitar metr mietr mitr			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meter  )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mitre  89.40 2 4 4 3 4 4				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sanmi	62.90	  meal				    &lt;br /&gt;
      san mil bojan sen	eda taam			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (meal  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      sanmi  62.90 3 2 2 2 0 2				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714c  sefta	60.00	  surface/face                      &lt;br /&gt;
      2/2o lower score no conflict [the	highest	score word  &lt;br /&gt;
     was used]						    &lt;br /&gt;
      se srfis satax kostad pavierxnast	satxa		    &lt;br /&gt;
      (surface	)					    &lt;br /&gt;
      sefta  60.00 2 2 3 3 0 3                              &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  bersa	57.00	  son				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin ibn				    &lt;br /&gt;
      er san beta ix sin najl				    &lt;br /&gt;
      (son  )						    &lt;br /&gt;
      bersa  57.00 2 2 3 0 0 0				    &lt;br /&gt;
                                                            &lt;br /&gt;
714d  pruxi	53.00	  spirit			    &lt;br /&gt;
      guei spirit pret espiritu	dux rux			    &lt;br /&gt;
      (spirit  )					    &lt;br /&gt;
      pruxi  53.00 2 3 2 3 2 3				    &lt;br /&gt;
							    &lt;br /&gt;
714d  suksa	61.20	  sudden                            &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	faja                        &lt;br /&gt;
      su sadn saxsa subit vdruk	bagta                       &lt;br /&gt;
      (sudden  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
714e  fetsi	    62.14     female/fem-                      &lt;br /&gt;
      si fem stri feminin jiensk uncau                     &lt;br /&gt;
      (female  )                                           &lt;br /&gt;
      fetsi	 62.14 2 2 2 3 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714e  spoja	    57.51     explode                          &lt;br /&gt;
      ja iksplod vispot eksplo vzriv fajar                 &lt;br /&gt;
      (explode  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      spoja	 57.51 2 3 3 3 0 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  catlu	    45.05     look                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek mir smatr tatala                        &lt;br /&gt;
      ciau luk dek ve smatr	tatala                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (look	at  )                                          &lt;br /&gt;
      catlu	 45.05 3 2 0 0 2 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  grake	    80.70     gram                             &lt;br /&gt;
      ke gram gram gram gram giram                         &lt;br /&gt;
      (gram	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      grake	 80.70 2 3 3 3 3 3                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  krefu	    57.53     recur                            &lt;br /&gt;
      3/3o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      [the 3rd best	word was taken to give the word	a short&lt;br /&gt;
     affix]                                                &lt;br /&gt;
      fu rikr pir rekur pere takrar                        &lt;br /&gt;
      (recur  )                                            &lt;br /&gt;
      krefu	 57.53 2 2 0 3 2 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  lijda	    42.72     religion (relig-)                &lt;br /&gt;
      jiau rilij darm relixio religi din                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (religious  )                                        &lt;br /&gt;
      lijda	 42.72 2 3 2 2 2 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  mlana	    54.29     side/lateral                     &lt;br /&gt;
      4/4o lower score no conflict affix                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl satax lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      mian latrl bagal lad starana janib                   &lt;br /&gt;
      (side	 )                                             &lt;br /&gt;
      mlana	 54.29 3 2 2 2 3 2                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
714f  rinju	    49.08     restrain                         &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren abuzdiv kabax           &lt;br /&gt;
      ju ristrein pratiband	refren sdierjiv	kabax          &lt;br /&gt;
      (restrain  )                                         &lt;br /&gt;
      rinju	 49.08 2 3 3 2 0 0                             &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Interlinguistics and Lojban Vocabulary Building&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Participants:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jsp@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeff Prothero)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com (Bob LeChevalier)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;urban@rand.org (Mike Urban)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Prothero:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been poking through the Linguistics section of the campus library, and found a book which might interest other Loglanists: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trends in Linguistics - Studies and Monographs 42: Interlinguistics Aspects of the Science of Planned Languages, Klaus Schubert (Ed.), Mouton de Gruyter 1989, ISBN 3-11-011910-2, 350 pg., $66.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;This book ... is an invitation to all those interested in languages and linguistics to make themselves acquainted with some recent streams of scientific discussion in the field of planned languages.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The book is a collection of fifteen recent papers in interlinguistics. For folks who (like me) haven&#039;t been following the field, the bibliographies provide an up-to- date set of pointers into the literature, plus some overviews of it. I think the table of contents gives an adequate idea of the scope and focus of the book: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part I: Introductions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Andre Martinet: The proof of the pudding&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: Interlinguistics - its aims, its achievements, and its place in language science.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part II: Planned Languages in Linguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aleksandr D Dulicenko: Ethnic language and planned language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Detlev Blanke: Planned languages - a survey of some of the main problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sergej N Kuznecov: Interlinguistics: a branch of applied linguistics?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part III: Languages Design and Language Change&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dan Maxwell: Principles for constructing Planned Languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Francois Lo Jacomo: Optimization in language planning&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: A few notes on the evolution of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part IV: Sociolinguistics and Psycholinguistics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jonathan Pool - Bernard Grofman: Linguistic artificiality and cognitive competence&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Claude Piron: Who are the speakers of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tazio Carlevaro: Planned auxiliary language and communicative competence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part V: The Language of Literature&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Manuel Halvelik: Planning nonstandard language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pierre Janton: If Shakespeare had written in Esperanto Part &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
VI: Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probal Dasgupta: Degree words in Esperanto and categories in Universal Grammar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Klaus Schubert: An unplanned development in planned languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Part VII: Terminology and Computational Lexicography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wera Blanke: Terminological standardization - its roots and fruits in planned languages&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rudiger Eichholz: Terminics in the interethnic language&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Victor Sadler: Knowledge-driven terminography for machine translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-----------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not a linguist, and won&#039;t attempt to review the book from a linguistics point of view, but I will highlight some points of particular interest to Loglanists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, there is some mention of Loglan (and the thousand- odd other artificial language projects to date), but the bulk of the focus is on Esperanto, for the simple reason that 99.9% of fluent planned-language users speak Esperanto, and a similar percentage of the written-text corpus from the planned language community is in Esperanto. (Any Loglanists who cannot tolerate mention of That Language are invited to stop reading at this point. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, I (and perhaps most Loglanists) was unaware of the Distributed Language Translation project, which seems to be of considerable potential interest to Loglanists. The following is quoted for comment:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Distributed Language Translation is the name of a long- term research and development project carried out by the BSO software house in Utrecht with funding from the Netherlands Ministry of Economic Affairs. For the present seven year period (1985-1991) it has a budget of 17 million guilders... Although much larger in size than earlier attempts, DLT started off as just another project of the second stage, using Esperanto as its intermediate language. Esperanto had been judged suitable for this purpose because of its highly regular syntax and morphology and because its agglutinative nature promised an especially efficient possibility of morpheme-based coding of messages for network transmission. During the course of the first years of the large-scale practical development, however, the role of Esperanto in the DLT system increased substantially. the intermediate language took over more and more processes originally designed to be carried out either in the source or in the target languages of the multilingual system. When I consider the DLT system to be one step more highly developed than the earlier implementations involving Esperanto, it is because the increase in the role of Esperanto was due to intrinsic qualities of Esperanto as a planned language. In other words, Esperanto is in DLT no longer treated as any other language (which incidentally has a somewhat more computer-friendly grammar than other languages), but it is now used in DLT for a large part of the overall translation process because of its special features as a planned language. Some facets of this complex application are discussed by Sadler [in this volume].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The functions fulfilled in DLT by means of Esperanto are numerous. Generally speaking one can say that since the insight about the usefulness of a planned language&#039;s particular features for natural-language processing, the whole DLT system design has tended to move into the Esper- anto part of the system all functions that are not specific for particular source or target languages. These are all semantic and pragmatic processes of meaning disambiguation, word choice, detection of semantic deixis and reference relations, etc. So-called knowledge of the world has been stored in a lexical knowledge bank and is consulted by a word expert system. All these applications of Artificial Intelligence are in DLT carried out entirely in Esperanto. Let it be said explicitly: Esperanto does not serve as a programming language (DLT is implemented in Prolog and C), but as a human language which renders the full content of the source text being translated with all its nuances, disambiguates it and conveys it to the second translation step to a target language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, the existence of significant amounts of fully disambiguated, machine-processable Esperanto text in such a translation system opens up the possibility of wholesale mechanical translation into Loglan. This would be, obvi- ously, particularly easy if the (currently poorly-defined) semantics of the Loglan affix system were brought into line with the existing semantics of the Esperanto affix system. In this case, bi-directional mechanical translation between the two languages might become quite easy, possible producing sort of an &amp;quot;instant literature&amp;quot; for the Loglanist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Building a simple correspondence between Esperanto and Loglan affixes is not as far-fetched an idea as it might first seem. Esperanto, like Loglan, uses a single root- stock of affixes which may be arbitrarily concatenated to form compound words. Where Loglan assigns two forms to (most) concepts, a pred and an affix, Esperanto uniformly assigns only a single affix (cutting the learning load in half!), but this poses no particular intertranslation problem. Loglan affixes are designed to be uniquely resolvable, and Esperanto affixes are not, but this problem has evidently already been solved, hence again poses no particular problem to bi-directional translation. Again, Loglan has a (putatively) unambiguous grammar which Esperanto lacks, but this problem has apparently already been satisfactorily resolved at the Esperanto end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Elsewhere on the affix front, Loglan has a set of affixes, but has barely begun the enormous task of building the compound-word vocabulary. Loglan could learn from Esperanto on (at least) two levels. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most obviously, bringing the Loglan affix system into semantic correspondence with the Esperanto affix system would open the door to wholesale borrowing of Esperanto compound metaphors, capitalizing on the planned language community&#039;s multi-mega-man-year investment. Unless there are sound engineering concerns to the contrary (I see none), there seems no reason to idly re-invent a wheel of this magnitude. This ain&#039;t a DOD project, folks :-) There will be language bigots on both sides opposed in principle to any cooperation, of course...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Less obviously, Loglan may be able to benefit from the design knowledge gained from a century&#039;s experience with, and linguistic study of, the Esperanto affix system. Klaus Schubert&#039;s paper &amp;quot;An unplanned development in planned languages: A study of word grammar&amp;quot; is suggestive. Zamenhof, like Jim Brown, paid no particular attention to word formation in his original design, simply providing a uniform stock of primitives which could be concatenated at will to create new words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this lack of conscious planning, linguistic study of word formation in Esperanto (started by Rene de Saussure - not to be confused with Ferdinand Saussure - and continued by Sergej Kuznecov and others), this simple syntactic combination rule has supported the development of a systematic set of semantic combination rules. These (unwritten and unconscious but nevertheless universal) semantic combination rules allow the Esperantist, when faced with an unfamiliar compound word, to not only decompose it into (usually) familiar primitives, but also to somewhat systematically deduce the meaning of the word. Recent decades have apparently seen increasingly free use of these facilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t attempt a summary of these semantic rules here, but will try to give the flavor. Even though the primitive stock syntactically forms a single neutral pool, it appears that prims [gismu] are semantically treated in word combination by Esperantists as being divided into noun, verb and modifier (combined adverb/adjective) classes, which combine with distinctively different rules. This distinction provides one dimension for sorting prims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second, orthogonal dimension sorts prims into the categories independent morpheme, declension morpheme, ending (these first three correspond roughly to Loglan&#039;s &amp;quot;little words&amp;quot;), affixoid, affix and root (these final three correspond to the Loglan affix set). These affix types combine according to a word-compounding grammar which allows the listener to distinguish (among other things) those compounds whose meaning is directly deducible from the meaning of the component prims, from those compounds whose meaning is metaphorical and must be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Loglan were to borrow the Esperanto compound vocabulary wholesale, it would of course, willy nilly, inherit these semantic regularities as well. Otherwise, it might be well to study these regularities and consciously incorporate them in the Loglan vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab responds:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Of the authors, Detlev Blanke is on our mailing list, but probably too recently to have based anything he wrote on our material.&lt;br /&gt;
# Jeff&#039;s quoted description of the Netherlands translation project is useful; we were certainly aware of it.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Netherlands project is based on Esperanto - but with a caveat. It uses a formalized &#039;written&#039; Esperanto form that may be slightly different from spoken forms, but most importantly has disambiguating information encoded in the way the language is written. For example grouping of modifiers (our &#039;pretty little girls school&#039; problem) is solved by using extra SPACES to disambiguate which terms modify which.&lt;br /&gt;
# Esperanto&#039;s affix system is similarly ambiguous, though not as bad as 1975 Loglan was. I&#039;ve been given a few examples. Some handy ones are &#039;romano&#039; which is either a &#039;novel&#039; (root + no affix) or &#039;Roman&#039; (root &#039;Romo&#039; = Rome plus affix -an-) and &#039;banano&#039; which is either &#039;banana&#039; or &#039;bather&#039; (from &#039;bano&#039; = bath + -an- again). I&#039;ve been told there are many others. This type of ambiguity presents no problem to a machine translator, which can store hyphens to separate affixes etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# I have not investigated Esperanto&#039;s affix system thoroughly, but it is not compatible with Lojban&#039;s. (We did ensure at one point that we had gismu, and therefore rafsi corresponding to each of the Esperanto affixes, though.) Simply put, Lojban has rafsi for EACH of its gismu. Esperanto has only a couple of dozen, and a MUCH larger root set. Some Esperanto affixes have several Lojban equivalents. For example, we now have &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;to&#039;e&amp;quot; for scalar negation of various sorts to correspond to Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot;. Note that Jeff did not mention the large root set in his comments. Most of these roots are combined by concatenation, like German. But apparently as often as not a new root is coined rather than concatenate, since Esperanto has no stigma attached to borrowing. But it is not true that Lojban has two forms while Esperanto only has one.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Esperanto affix/semantic system is probably even more poorly defined than Lojban&#039;s. As Jeff said, it is largely intuitive; this means independent of a rule system. However, there are rules; this was mentioned a few times in the recent JL debates between Don Harlow, Athelstan and myself. A guy named Kalocsay apparently wrote up the rules early in this century; they are some 40-50 pages long and most Esperantists never read them much less learn them. They also are apparently rather freely violated in actual usage; they were descriptive of the known language, not prescriptive. By the way, I suspect that Lojban&#039;s compounding semantics is actually better-defined than it seems. I just don&#039;t know enough about semantic theory to attempt to write it up. Jim Carter wrote a paper several years ago, which we can probably offer for distribution (or he can), on the semantics of compound place structures. We haven&#039;t adopted what he has said whole-hog, but it certainly has been influential.&lt;br /&gt;
# We will probably make extensive use of Esperanto dictionaries when we start our buildup of the Lojban lujvo vocabulary. We thus will not reinvent the wheel in totality. BUT, we cannot do this freely for a large number of reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
## our root set is different than theirs. Some of their compounds will thus not work. The same is true of old Loglan words. We&#039;ve been held up on translating Jim Carter&#039;s Akira story (the one he uses in all his guaspi examples) from old Loglan to Lojban by this need to retranslate all the compounds (which he used extensively and in ways inconsistent with our current, better defined semantics).&lt;br /&gt;
## as mentioned above, our affixes are not in 1-to-1 correspondence.&lt;br /&gt;
## their compounds undoubtedly have a strong European bias. I doubt if it is as bad as Jim Brown&#039;s (who built the compound for &#039;to man a ship&#039; from the metaphor &#039;man- do&#039;; i.e. &#039;to do as a man to&#039;. He also did &#039;kill&#039; as &#039;dead-make&#039; where &#039;make&#039; is the concept &#039;to make ... from materials ...&#039; Sounds more like Frankenstein to me, folks.) But I suspect Esperanto has a few zinger&#039;s in there. Indeed, I understand the Ido people criticized Esperanto most significantly for its illogical word building, though I don&#039;t have details. I also intend to draw heavily from Chinese, which has a more Lojbanic tanru &#039;metaphor&#039; system since it doesn&#039;t distinguish between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Esperanto tries to get around this by allowing relatively free conversion between these categories, but the root concepts are taken from European languages that more rigidly categorize words, and their compounds probably reflect European semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
## Most importantly, Esperanto words are not gismu. They do not have place structures. Lojban words do, and the affix semantics and compound semantics must be consistent with those place structures. We&#039;ve covered this in previous discussions in the guise of warning against &#039;figurative&#039; metaphors that are inconsistent with the place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
## Nope. Most importantly is another reason. Lojban is its own language. It should not be an encoded Esperanto any more then it should be an encoded English. I suspect that just like English words, Esperanto words sometimes have diverse multiple context-dependent meanings (though again perhaps less severely than English). We want to minimize this occurrence in Lojban if not prevent it (we may not succeed, but we can try - the rule that every word created must have a place structure is a good start.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bottom line is that each Esperanto word must be checked for validity, just like any other lujvo proposal, but must also be translated into its closest equivalent Lojban tanru as well, and have a place structure written, etc. The bulk of dictionary writing is this other work. I can and have made new tanru/lujvo (without working out the place structures) at the rate of several per MINUTE for related concepts. Coranth D&#039;Gryphon posted a couple hundred proposals last December (that no one commented on), which he made based on English definitions. We have perhaps 200 PAGES of word proposals to go through. Nearly all of these have no place structures defined or are defined haphazardly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has a multi-man-year investment behind it, though not &#039;mega&#039;. No, Jeff, we aren&#039;t a DOD project, but in terms of people working on it and time spent, we&#039;ve far exceeded many such projects. And word-building, whether for better or worse, has received the greatest portion of that effort, since that is all most people have felt competent to work on. (Incidentally, the Netherlands project IS a government sponsored project, if not defense- related. If we had several million dollars, I think we&#039;d be well along the way to a translator ourselves. Sheldon Linker has claimed that he could do a Lojban conversing program with heuristic &#039;understanding&#039; a la HAL 9000 in 5 man-years. This is, in my mind, of comparable difficulty to a heuristic translation program. Any comments out there from those who know more than I do on this subject?&lt;br /&gt;
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-----------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
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Mike Urban:&lt;br /&gt;
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While I am a dyed-in-the-wool Esperantist, I agree that attempting to modify or extend Lojban in imitation of various features of Esperanto would be a mistake (I also lose patience with reformers who want to Lojbanify aspects of Esperanto).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto&#039;s `affix system is ambiguous&#039; to the extent that the language itself is indeed lexically ambiguous. Not only `affixes&#039; but roots themselves are combinable, and so it is possible to come up with endless puns like the `banano&#039; ones you mentioned (`literaturo&#039; might be a tower of letters, i.e., a `litera turo&#039;). Without the careful, but somewhat restrictive, phonological rules that Loglan or Lojban provides, this kind of collision is inevitable.&lt;br /&gt;
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The borrowing of words in Esperanto (`neologisms&#039;) instead of using a compound form is a controversial topic. Claude Piron, in his recent book, La Bona Lingvo, argues (quite convincingly, I think) that the tendency of some Es- perantists to use neologisms, usually from French, English, or Greek, is partly based on pedanticism, partly based on Eurocentrism (``you mean, everyone doesn&#039;t know what `monotona&#039; means?&#039;&#039;), partly a Francophone desire to have a separate word for everything, and largely a failure to really Think IN Esperanto, rather than translating. In any case, the distinction in Esperanto between affixes and root words has always been a thin one (Zamenhof mentioned that you can do anything with an affix that you can do with a root), and has been getting even thinner in recent years. Combining by concatenation is every bit as intrinsic to the language as the use of suffixes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You asked about Ido and Esperanto. While I have not looked at Ido in a number of years, I recall that the main gripe of the Idists was not that Esperanto was too European - indeed, one of their reforms was to discard Esperanto&#039;s rather a priori `correlative&#039; system of relative pronouns (which works rather as if we used `whus&#039; instead of `how&#039; for parallelism with `what/that, where/ there&#039;) in favor of a more latinate - but unsystematic - assortment of words. If anything, Idists tended towards a more Eurocentric (or Francocentric) view than Esperantists did. Ido&#039;s affix system, however, attempted to be more like Loglan/Lojban. They took the view that predicates did not have intrinsic parts of speech; thus any conversion of meaning through the use of affixes should be `reversible&#039;. Thus, if `marteli&#039; is `to hammer&#039;, then `martelo&#039; must mean an act of hammering, not (as in Esperanto) `a hammer&#039;; or, if `martelo&#039; means `a hammer&#039;, then `marteli&#039; must mean `to be a hammer&#039;. One result of this is a somewhat larger assortment of affixes than Esperanto possesses, (for example, a suffix that would transform a noun root `martelo&#039; to a root meaning `to hammer&#039;) with rather subtle shades of distinction in some cases. The result is a language that is only slightly more logical than Esperanto, but proportionally harder to learn, and no less Eurocentric.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Linguistic tinkerers like the Idists underestimated the organic quality of Esperanto, or of any living language. Indeed, one of the valuable aspect of Lojban or Loglan, if either ever develops a substantial population of fluent speakers, will be to observe the extent to which the common usages of the language diverge from the prescriptive definitions. Such effects will, I think, be easier to isolate and analyze in a language that was created `from whole cloth&#039; than in an a posteriori language like Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proposed Lojban Machine Grammar Baseline Changes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document explains the technical corrections to the tentative baseline grammar of 20 July as proposed by John Cowan. Each change is explained in a three-part format: CURRENT LANGUAGE; PROPOSED CHANGE; RATIONALE. Those wishing an exact list of changes to the grammar baseline rules should contact us. The changes are sufficiently minor that we do not plan to reissue the machine grammar before the final baseline, although we are considering an addendum with the exact list of changes after they are formally approved, which will go to those at level 2 and above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Executive Summary:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# JOIK connection between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Multiple EK_KEs between operands&lt;br /&gt;
# Reorder BIhI GAhO GAhO to GAhO BIhI GAhO&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove GAhOs in parentheses&lt;br /&gt;
# NA SE without NAI in afterthought connectives&lt;br /&gt;
# Negation/conversion of BIhI&lt;br /&gt;
# KI by itself and after BAI&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# GIhEK_KE priority change&lt;br /&gt;
# No FAhO before TUhU&lt;br /&gt;
# Attach free modifierss to tense_modal, not PU_mod&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow ZI PU and VI FAhA&lt;br /&gt;
# Change utterance ordinals to free modifiers&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow only one NAhE before tense&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow forethought JOIKs&lt;br /&gt;
# Allow BU to suffix any word to produce a BY&lt;br /&gt;
# Remove MEX relations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 1&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Currently, logical connection of operands in the MEX grammar is allowed using EKs. However, JOIKs are not usable in MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow JOIKs as well as EKs on the same grammatical level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) Operands are the formal analogues of sumti, and this change makes operand connection formally identical to sumti connection, so that it can be learned by analogy without a special exception.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Ranges (&amp;quot;from 3 to 10&amp;quot;) can be easily expressed using selma&#039;o BIhI and GAhO, which are part of the JOIK system. Currently, these can only be expressed by a messy variation on left and right parentheses, which doesn&#039;t work well because no separator is defined between the upper and the lower bound. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 2 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Only one EK_KE construction is allowed after a MEX operand. You cannot say &amp;quot;pa .a ke ri .e ci ke&#039;e .a ke vo .e mu&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;1 or (2 and 3) or (3 and 4)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow more than one consecutive EK_KE construct. RATIONALE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) same as 1) for Change 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) This change amounts to changing an &amp;quot;operand_C&amp;quot; to an &amp;quot;operand_B&amp;quot;. The baselined version was created by incorrectly copying existing text from the pre-baseline grammar, so this change is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: In expressing intervals with explicit end-markers, the order is BIhI GAhO GAhO, where the first GAhO is the left endpoint and the second one is the right endpoint.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Put the first GAhO before the BIhI &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Make this form more consistent with the logical connectives like &amp;quot;na.anai&amp;quot;, where the marker for the left connectand precedes the connector.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 4&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: MEX ranges are handled with GAhO operators attached to mathematical parentheses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this capability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See Change 1. This capability was never correctly specified, because only one expression can appear between parentheses, whereas ranges require two expressions inherently.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 5&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: It is possible to specify either NA or SE before selma&#039;o A, JA, GIhA, or ZIhA, but they cannot both be specified unless -NAI follows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Remove this restriction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The intent of a previous change just before the baseline was to allow both NA and SE (in that order) in all cases, not just those where -NAI followed. This ability was accidentally omitted, so this is a &amp;quot;bug fix&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 6&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: selma&#039;o JOI can be converted with SE and negated with NAI like the logical connectives, but the closely related selma&#039;o BIhI cannot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow conversion and negation of BIhI.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Converted ranges allow &amp;quot;se bi&#039;o&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;to...from...&amp;quot; and negated ranges allow &amp;quot;bi&#039;inai&amp;quot; which means &amp;quot;not between&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 7&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: KI can be used either on an origin specifier or on a time and/or space tense to reset the scope or position of the origin. KI by itself is ungrammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow KI by itself. This returns the origin to the physical here and now. Also allow KI after BAI to set a default aspect value; &amp;quot;BAI KI sumti&amp;quot; sets the BAI aspect to the sumti, and &amp;quot;BAI KI KU&amp;quot; resets the aspect to its default.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This capability existed in the pre-baseline grammar, and was omitted in error during the tense redesign.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 8 *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 9&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: GIhEK_KE constructs have lower priority than basic GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Place GIhEK_KE constructs at the highest priority among GIhEKs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This is the scheme used by sumti and operand connection, where EK has the lowest priority (and is left-binding), EK_BO has medium priority (and is right- binding), and EK_KE has highest priority (and is again left-binding). During the split between Institute Loglan and Lojban, sumti were changed to make EK_KE highest priority (and operands followed when MEX was redesigned) but bridi-tails were not changed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 10&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: FAhO can appear in two possible places, at the end of text (including TO-TOI parenthesized text), and just before the closing TUhU of a TUhE-TUhU very long scope construct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Disallow FAhO before TUhU. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: FAhO was intended to signal the end of text unambiguously, but a parser problem forced it to be allowed in an additional context. That problem no longer exists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 11&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: The grouping of PU_mods means that a free modifier at the end of a PU_mod applies to the whole PU_mod rather than just to the tense_modal at the end, whereas free modifiers embedded within the PU_mod refer only to the tense_modals they follow. So &amp;quot;puxipa je puxire&amp;quot;, which should mean &amp;quot;past-time t1 or past-time-t2&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(past-time t1 or some-past-time)-sub-2&amp;quot;. As a result, there would be no way to subscript a conjoint tense, but it is not clear what such subscripts would mean anyhow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Move the free modifier to tense_modal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: See CURRENT LANGUAGE section. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 12&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: An initial FAhA cannot be followed by space offsets, but only by a space interval (or by nothing at all). Analogously for a ZI in the time system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow FAhA followed by space-time-offsets and ZI followed by time offsets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: This allows the currently ungrammatical &amp;quot;vizu&#039;a&amp;quot; in the sense of &amp;quot;to the left of a nearby point&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;zu&#039;avi&amp;quot; on the other hand means &amp;quot;a point not far to the left of here&amp;quot;. This distinction is subtle, but real. The change to the time system follows by symmetry, although initial ZI is probably not of much use, since it means &amp;quot;a short/medium/long time distance from now&amp;quot; without specifying either past or future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 13&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Utterance ordinals using MAI are currently considered indicators, and can appear after any word and get absorbed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Shift MAI constructs to the more restrictive free-modifier grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The absorber routines in the parsing program which need to remove non-initial utterance ordinals before YACC sees them have to read an arbitrary number of PA or BY tokens, determine whether the next token is a MAI, and if so absorb, but if not push back all the PA/BY stuff. This requires unbounded pushback capability in the absorber, which is to be avoided.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was proposed earlier but never consummated. A side effect of this change is that lexer_A would flag utterance ordinals only, and the regular indicators (UI, CAI, Y) no longer need lexer flagging. Another side effect is that FUhO, DAhO, and POhA can be treated as indicators (and PEhA as a forethought indicator like BAhE) rather than with special magic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 14&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: A tense can be prefixed with arbitrary numbers of NAhE tokens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow only one NAhE token at most.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: The compounder needs to read past a potentially infinite number of NAhEs to decide whether what follows is a selbri (which is not compounded) or a tense. If this change is made, the compounder will always be able to decide within 2 tokens whether it has a compound or not. If multiple NAhEs are really needed, the tense can be expanded to use the predicate grammar instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 15: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 16: *ANNULLED*&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 17&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: Logical operators can be represented in either forethought or afterthought (except for tenses and abstractors), as can aspectual (BAI) operators, but the non-logical operators of JOI and BIhI have no forethought versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;[SE] JOI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;[SE] BIhI GI [NAI]&amp;quot; as new kinds of forethought connectives, analogous to the existing &amp;quot;stag GI [NAI]&amp;quot; (see the E- BNF grammar). Forethought would still be disallowed in tanru (no GUhEK equivalent of this) and where the GAhO endpoint markers are required. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: Completeness, plus the fact that natural languages such as English usually represent JOIKs with forethought constructs (&amp;quot;the union of...and...&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;from...to...&amp;quot;, etc.) Institute Loglan had only one JOIK, &amp;quot;ze&amp;quot; (the equivalent of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;), so a forethought construction was not felt necessary. The far more elaborate JOIKs of Lojban can easily be extended to forethought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 18&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, selma&#039;o BU, has a very restricted use. It can only appear after bare vowels (selma&#039;o A, I, and Y) to create the lerfu for those vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Allow &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot; after any (lexable) word whatever, to create something equivalent to selma&#039;o BY. In addition, change the standard lerfu for &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;. Remove the ZAI...FOI construct for change of character set, as well as the TEI construct. LAU is kept and extended to hold all lerfu prefixes, including &amp;quot;zai&amp;quot; to specify character set and &amp;quot;tau&amp;quot; to force a next-lerfu shift.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Composite symbols become represented by TEI letteral ... FOI, which has the grammar of a single letteral. RATIONALE: This allows the creation of a bunch of new lerfu. The Latin and Greek alphabets can be more readily accommodated; for example, &amp;quot;q&amp;quot; could have &amp;quot;kybu&amp;quot; as its lerfu. lerfu for the digits become possible; for example &amp;quot;pabu&amp;quot; would be the digit 1, as opposed to the number 1. &amp;quot;ybu&amp;quot; causes problems with the parser, as the &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; is absorbed into the preceding token (as a hesitation noise) and is not available to be compounded with &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;y&#039;ybu&amp;quot; uses the lerfu &amp;quot;y&#039;y&amp;quot; (alone representing &amp;quot;&#039;&amp;quot;) instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ZAI...FOI construct is meant to specify new character sets, but requires spelling out the name of the character set in lerfu, for example &amp;quot;zai dy ebu vy abu ny abu gy abu ry ibu foi&amp;quot; to enable Devanagari mode. This is ugly. Using the new flexibility of &amp;quot;bu&amp;quot;, we can say &amp;quot;zai .devanagar. bu&amp;quot; instead. (The pauses are needed in names for morphological reasons.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Change 19&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CURRENT LANGUAGE: There is a special category of predicates called &amp;quot;MEX relations&amp;quot; which have special grammar; they represent mathematical relations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PROPOSED CHANGE: Assimilate MEX relations to ordinary predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
RATIONALE: MEX relations as defined cannot be logically connected and overlap ordinary predicates. The only MEX relation cmavo defensible on Zipfean grounds is &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;, which is moved to selma&#039;o GOhA.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses - Vincent Burch, John Hodges, Bernard Golden, David Morrow ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Letter from Vincent Burch&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(italicized comments by Bob)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
... First, a couple of lexical questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gurni - does this mean grain (texture) or grain (cereal)? [cereal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fepni - does the last place, &amp;quot;from...&amp;quot; indicate the major unit this is a division of, or the issuing authority? [the latter]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few suggestions about place structures:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[These are open to comments from the community, and will be considered along with others as part of the ongoing place structure review.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cevni - there should be another place to indicate purview (&amp;quot;of...&amp;quot;). This eliminates an inadvertent bias toward monotheism, and allows anthropologists, or anyone else, to easily discuss deities such as Thor, the Norse god of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cange, farm and purdi, garden - need another place for crop(s) grown.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
zekri - should insert &amp;quot;against...&amp;quot; to indicate the victim. The concept that all crimes are crimes against the state is a relatively recent development of debatable merit. (I&#039;m enough of an anarchist to think that &amp;quot;crime against the state&amp;quot; comes close to being an oxymoron.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vindu - should add a place for source (&amp;quot;from...&amp;quot;) so that, for example, le vindu fe le mledi, fungicide, can be distinguished from le vindu fi le mledi, mycotoxin. As a linguistic faulpelz, I&#039;d like to know if there&#039;s a clear way to condense those phrases, and others like them, into lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I assume, &amp;quot;...and to distinguish them&amp;quot;. After all mledi vindu covers them both, but ambiguously. How about: mledi krasi vindu to explicitly give the latter. &amp;quot;from source/origin&amp;quot; has a lexeme BAI and is probably not needed in the place structure, making the simpler tanru more clear to cover &#039;fungicide&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Surprise&amp;quot; is a good keyword for .ue, but when you write the dictionary, you should be sure to include the translation of .ue as &amp;quot;even...&amp;quot;. My statement of mock mock-humility, &amp;quot;sogar ich kann Fehler machen,&amp;quot; becomes mi .ue pu&#039;i srera.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[You are NOT expressing surprise - as you said it is mock humility. Don&#039;t &#039;lie&#039; with attitudinals; if you do, they don&#039;t serve their proper purpose. Another culture is perfectly justified at treating them literally. How about .o&#039;anai .ianai. It is longer but clear.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, I have a few suggestions for added cmavo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... enough to ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating sufficiency or potential, whether or not realized. [I need an example to tell your exact intent, but I think the existing set will manage it.]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... such that .../ ... so that .../ ... to the point of ...&amp;quot;, a modal indicating actual result. This could be used to translate such tings as &amp;quot;bored to tears,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freeze to death,&amp;quot; or Carsonesque &amp;quot;it&#039;s so hot, that ...&amp;quot; [ja&#039;e]&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;... by ...&amp;quot;, a modal to identify the point of attachment; used to translate such phrases as &amp;quot;lead by the nose,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;hang by fingernails.&amp;quot; [sedi&#039;o] 4) &amp;quot;Heading/Title:&amp;quot;, a tag to identify the following text as a heading or title to the body of text following it. The end of the title would be marked by ni&#039;o or any of the mo&#039;o series. As would hopefully be obvious in use, a title before nomo&#039;o applies to entire body of text in question. Likewise before pamo&#039;o unless there is already a title that it becomes a subheading under. Subsequent headings apply only to designated sections of text. This cmavo would share some of the function of ni&#039;o, but apparently require its own lexeme. [This would require a grammar change, and isn&#039;t needed. Titles and Headings are metalinguistic, and should be identified as such. Our published examples have shown a couple of ways to do this.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for some gaps I see in the gismu list:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) When I read your report on Logfest &#039;90, I was amused by a collective blind spot. You make sure all the Terran continents are named, but you don&#039;t notice the absence of an adequate generic term. I&#039;m not satisfied with bady- daplu (.a&#039;unai!), and it couldn&#039;t be used in lujvo for concepts like transcontinental or intercontinental. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[.a&#039;unai is intended to be repulsion as contrary to interest (negative-interest), and seems strange in this context, but who knows. I would prefer using tumla to daplu, but otherwise see nothing wrong with your lujvo, which can in turn be used with ragve or jbini to get the other two concepts. Not all concepts need to be expressed in only two terms.]&lt;br /&gt;
2) Similarly, there is no gismu for forest. A ricygri is a copse, or stand, or clump. Besides, a forest is more than a group of trees; it&#039;s an entire ecological community (or megacommunity?). A separate gismu is needed to describe things as sylvan or woodland, or to make lujvo for forestry, woodcraft, or deforestation. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[Depending on your purpose, you could therefore use the most non-specific term: tricu foldi, or for your specific uses tricu ciste, or even tricu cecmu. There needn&#039;t be one Lojban term for all uses of an English term. Note that I do not make lujvo at this point. I would analyze the tanru much more careful before doing so.]&lt;br /&gt;
3) How does one say galaxy or galactic? A targri is a star cluster, which is a far cry from the huge, orbiting system that is a galaxy. Again, there are concepts like intra-, trans-, and inter-, and extragalactic. &amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;[banli tarci ciste, perhaps. The compounds are used inexactly in English, by the way, so you have to be careful. But they are not everyday words and could easily be 4 or 5 part compounds using kensa where needed.]&lt;br /&gt;
4) Going the other way on the size scale, the difference between a village and a town (cmata&#039;u) is qualitative more than quantitative. I can&#039;t come up with a lot of lujvo, but it still bothers me. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[You are right - the difference is qualitative. Define the quality and you have your tanru. How about cange zarci tcadu?]&lt;br /&gt;
5) I see no way to discuss expectation in a veridical (as opposed to attitudinal) context, whether you mean astrology, meteorology, Wellsian futurology, scientific knowledge such as &amp;quot;I expect a dropped object to fall,&amp;quot; or world view such as &amp;quot;I expect children to respect their elders.&amp;quot; lujvo include disappoint = expectation-fail, optimist = good-expector, and pessimist = bad-expector (in contrast to xagnalkri, cynic = good-doubter). &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[krici (and senpi) are key gismu, with expectation referring to a belief about the future, about fate, or about fortune (balvi, dimna, cunso), depending on degree, intent and scope] &lt;br /&gt;
6) In scientific contexts, it would be very helpful to have a gismu for taxon. No, that is not the particle that transmits government extortion; it is a branch/level/division in a system of hierarchical organization. Taxonomy would be taxon-system-study), depending on context, but the primary use would be to de- signate taxonomic levels. Thus, Felideae and Lamiaceae are both examples of family-taxon. This avoids the confusion of trying to back-count the steps from jutsi to kingdom. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[jutsi conveys the series of species within a taxonomic hierarchy, with klesi used in a less rigorous context.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I could go on, but it&#039;s late. Ni&#039;o, . . .&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few of my lujvo that I&#039;m proudest of: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
kaurjutsi (kampu jutsi). The place structure is &amp;quot;x1 is the common name used by x2 for the life-form called x3 (Linnaean binomial) by author x4.&amp;quot; I expect this lujvo would see more use in classrooms and laboratories than the original gismu. With ki&#039;a and the vo&#039;a series, it&#039;s easy to ask questions like &amp;quot;what&#039;s the common name for this?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;who calls it that?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;what&#039;s the scientific name for tapeworm?&amp;quot; An example of usage is: le ricpurdi srasu ku kaurjutsi le merko lai Dactylis glomeratus la lineius i le jipcirjma ku kaurjutsi le brito vo&#039;i (Orchardgrass is the American common name of D. glomeratus [L.]. The Brits call it cocksfoot.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;lu ricpurdi srasu li&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;la ricpurdi srasu ku&amp;quot;, since it&#039;s a name. Also, since you are dealing with names, rather than with the classification system, cmene should be the underlying gismu.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
relxadba (re xadba). &amp;quot;x1 is the mate of x2&amp;quot;. The mnemonic is &amp;quot;pair-half&amp;quot;. I originally coined it with gloves, socks, and shoes in mind, but it can easily be extended to animal species which are at least ostensively monogamous, like Homo sapiens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I think xadba mapti fits your definition more clearly. Look at the place structures of your underlying gismu, especially the final one that determines the tanru place structure.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu&#039;arselgre (cuxna se pagre). &amp;quot;x1 filters x2, stopping x3 and passing x4&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;selective barrier&amp;quot; can be a construct of paper and metal for filtering oil, gas, or air, or a piece of tinted glass for filtering light, or an assembly of components for filtering an electromagnetic signal, an algorithm for filtering input, or a mind-set for filtering perceptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My first choice for keywords for tanru and lujvo is &#039;word cluster&#039; and &#039;affix cluster&#039;; my second choice is &#039;modified phrase&#039; and &#039;modified word&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[At least one person expressed a preference. Does anyone else care?]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like the overall setup of kinship terms, including the proposed generics. The &#039;988 panzi is basically included in jbena (if both are viewed tense-free). Inverting and expanding panzi would make it nicely symmetrical to jbena. I think &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; would also be welcome additions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A good translation of &amp;quot;just married&amp;quot; might be puzize&#039;u speni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I&#039;ll leave this one for a longer discussion of tenses. Maybe next issue.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The attitudinals and discursives are both in the UI lexeme. Does this mean that the attitudinals can be compounded with the discursives, or just with each other?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[No rules against it - the line between the two is rather arbitrary, but beware of possible misinterpretations.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would it be worth adding another cmavo to have a discursive for &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot;? If the answer to both of these last questions is yes, then .uecu&#039;i would combine with &amp;quot;ironically&amp;quot; to translate the German discursive &amp;quot;ausgerechnet.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I don&#039;t know the German word, but irony is simply expressed with .ianai, in an otherwise positive claim.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I propose a new procedure with the names and acronyms of nations and other groups. Each word of the name should be examined to see if it is intrinsically a name, or if it&#039;s &amp;quot;just a word.&amp;quot; (Yes, I know that this can be an arbitrary distinction.) The names should be rendered phonetically into the best-fit cmene, and the words should be translated and then cmenified. Acronyms should either be the result of this process, or a simple rendition of the acronym from the source language. Thus, we might discuss la ge&#039;oSySySyRur or its Lojbanic equivalent, but not la .ubuSySyRyr. Hopefully, we can be more consistent (with whatever convention) than English speakers. USSR is a translated acronym, but KGB is the acronym of the Russian phrase that means &amp;quot;Committee for State Security.&amp;quot; If we&#039;re going to keep the original acronym, we might as well pronounce it kah-geh-beh, and leave it in Cyrillic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, that task requires more lujvo, to translate the various governmental concepts. Republic is easy, that&#039;s ka&#039;irtru (krati turni). I&#039;ve put some effort into coining lujvo for the rest, but it&#039;s a challenge to find metaphors which accurately convey the essence of the terms and remain culturally neutral. Confederacy, for example, is listed in most dictionaries as synonymous with federation. The difference is more or less clearly understood, however, by speakers - especially those who take a dim view of central authority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The terms are pretty much synonymous, unless you have a context where one was chosen and acquired secondary connotations, as in the U.S. Civil War.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
---------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[John Hodges takes a different perspective on people&#039;s reasons for learning Loglan/Lojban (his reasons apply regardless of the language name). His arguments are sound though pessimistic; I feel a little optimism is necessary for anyone to choose to learn an artificial language expecting practical benefit. Nora points out that John and I both have omitted the reason most people who have actually knuckled down and started learning the language - as a linguistic toy, a personal mind expander. This minor, totally impractical aspect may be the spark to get a &#039;movement&#039; started once we have a larger speaker-base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from John Hodges, on &#039;Why Lojban&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve pondered the subject of &amp;quot;Why Lojban?&amp;quot; We need to provide answers on an individual level, &amp;quot;Why should I study Lojban now?&amp;quot; Lojban may have many uses, but not all of them can be used as reasons for an individual to learn it. E.g. John Cowan&#039;s suggestion that L. may be valuable in linguistic research as a case study in the process of creolization. (Though, since creolization is an example of language evolution, it would seem to me for that purpose one would want an evolved language, not a constructed one.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: If you have fluent speakers, one would expect the processes of language evolution to be the same.] If there were a sizeable L-speaking community, a researcher might become interested. But I doubt if any individual would learn Lojban in order to improve the opportunities for lin- guistic research into creolization.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The original &amp;quot;basic three reasons&amp;quot; still hold, in varying amounts for different people. The hope that those who think in Lojban will think &amp;quot;better&amp;quot; in some measurable way, more flexibly and/or more logically, is the one that will provide my own motivation. Potential usefulness as a com- puter language may motivate Computer Science researchers. Potential as a Global Auxiliary Language, a &amp;quot;common tongue&amp;quot; to reduce language barriers, may interest some more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written before on the possible aid that the computer-science people could give to the global-common- tongue ideal. Machine translation FROM Lojban TO natural languages would seem much more practical than any other kind of machine translation. It seems to me the project most likely to give tangible results within a small number of years. It is a project that can be worked on by a small number of widely scattered people. It is a project that may be &amp;quot;academically respectable&amp;quot;, suitable for theses and grants. It can be done by people who are not terribly fluent in anything but their native tongue. Intermediate results, software that gives bad but decipherable translations, can still be useful as research and as teaching tools. Altogether, in my opinion, enough to give a &amp;quot;reason for existence&amp;quot;, or a practical focus, to la lojbangirz. if efforts toward a mass movement fizzle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, I am not a computer-science person, and I have concluded that I am not likely to become one. My motivation is too weak for the work that would involve, given my starting point. Hence I cannot contribute personally to a machine-translation effort. I am starting out (once more on a new direction, toward graduate study of philosophy, in logic and ethics. My interest in Lojban will be in its potential as a language for thinking clearly in. (Pardon my English.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The class I taught never got to the &amp;quot;logical connectors&amp;quot;, and, or, xor, not, if, because, etc.... I recall you expressing a hope that a parser that could look ahead more than one token might allow a simplification of Lojban&#039;s system of logical connectors. Here also, then, the contributions of CS people are of high value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s value as a teaching vehicle for Logic, or (perhaps more likely) for linguistics, are potentially reasons for learning Lojban, for those who already wish to learn logic or linguistics. Someone would have to write a textbook on logic or linguistics that used Lojban as such a vehicle. Who knows, I might do that someday. I&#039;ll keep it in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have thought of the appeal of exclusivity and secrecy; given that so few people know this language, hobbyists might use it for private speech or writing. Diaries and intimate conversation... but is that enough motivation for learning a language, even one relatively easy to learn? Codes and ciphers would serve those purposes with less effort. I have thought of calling L. &amp;quot;Dragontongue&amp;quot;, recalling my Dad&#039;s comment that Lojban looked like nothing human. Fantasy fans might be attracted to it because of that. Again, I doubt this motivation is strong enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have written on the global-common-tongue idea; given start-up-costs, increasing returns to scale, and inertia of established standards, I think our only hope is through machine translation. AFTER a dramatically successful test of Sapir-Whorf, the S-W angle may give us another selling point. Until MT or SW materializes, I think Esperanto owns the field, and even they have a very uphill fight. I think the most-likely-future is for the largest natural languages to grow and consolidate. In areas with a lot of small, fiercely loved ethnic or national languages, AND no clearly dominant existing common tongue, Esperanto will have its appeal to the sensible minority. Barring a sudden global attack of sanity, there will be no global common tongue. But given MT from L. to the largest N natural languages, L. could sweep the field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Following is a last, more scholarly examination of the question of Esperanto and its &#039;16 Rules&#039;, written by an expert in the History of Esperanto and International Languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== COUNTING THE GRAMMATICAL RULES OF ESPERANTO ===&lt;br /&gt;
Bernard Golden&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 16 rules - for propaganda purposes only ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For more than a century propagandists have tediously and repulsively disseminated the falsehood that the grammar of Esperanto consists of only sixteen rules. Plena Analiza Gramatiko (Complete Analytical Grammar)&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt; comments more realistically on the so-called &amp;quot;complete Grammar of Esperanto&amp;quot; which is the title of the sixteen rules in the Fundamenta Krestomatio (Fundamental Chrestomathy): &amp;quot;To want to limit the fundamentals of Esperanto to that scanty grammar and rely exclusively on it in order to discuss the main questions of our language would indeed be an unscientific and infantile attitude&amp;quot; (P. 18). Such a Lilliputian grammar is evidently insufficient for clarification of how the language is used, and it must be completed by rules formulated in other parts of the Fundamento (Foundation of Esperanto) or illustrated by Zamenhof&#039;s own usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== An unsuccessful attempt to estimate the number of rules ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To the best of my knowledge the first Esperantist who explored the question of the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is Douglas B Gregor&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;. He emphasizes that Zamenhof never said that Esperanto has only sixteen rules. It is a question not of sixteen rules but only sixteen descriptive items. &amp;quot;They are simple 16 heterogeneous traits of Esperanto which Zamenhof for some reason wanted to emphasize&amp;quot; (p. 8). Consequently, Gregor gave up trying to ascertain the actual number of rules in Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is it not possible to compare Esperanto, even in an approximate manner, with ethnic languages in order to have an idea of the number of its rules? In the study referred to above, Gregor reports that he made an attempt to compare Esperanto with an ethnic language when he compiled a list of 6000 examples illustrating rules about language usage in Italian, but he did not succeed in drawing conclusions about Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Grammars and grammatical compendia ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An idea of the magnitude of Esperanto grammar can be acquired from the number of paragraphs or sections in grammatical reference books. For example, Plena Analiza Gramatiko has 436 numbered paragraphs describing the language in detail, but that is a minimum figure for the number of rules because within each paragraph are sections and subsections with discussions of doubtful points and even exceptions not conforming to the published Plena Gramatiko (Complete Grammar). Kalman Kalocsay&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; describes the language in 288 paragraphs in which, just as in Plena Analiza Gramatiko, there are several sections and subsections. Does the figure 288 signify simplification of the grammatical analysis of Esperanto or did Kalocsay omit some rules?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a manual titled Gramatiko de Esperanto, Miroslav Malovec&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt; requires a little over 150 paragraphs and sections to teach the grammar, while Gaston Waringhien&#039;s brochure gives a concise overview of the essence of Esperanto grammar in only 66 paragraphs&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Analytic School ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to the doctrine of the Analytic School (Analiza Skolo) founded by Luis Mimo, the ingenious Fundamental set of sixteen rules is incomplete but can be completed by application of logic which determines the structure of the language up to the last detail&amp;lt;ref name=xa /&amp;gt;. Mimo stresses the point that the sixteen Fundamental rules impress learners favorable but they in no way determine how the language is to be used&amp;lt;ref name=ze /&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Now, the rules not given by Zamenhof, which are immanent in the language, have been given by the Analytic School by means of a systematic analysis and control with the help of the sole means of language analysis, logic, which in every case gives the correct answer; just one, because, already having been provided with its elements, nothing in the artificial language can be capricious&amp;quot; (p. 241).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mimo&#039;s Kompleta lernolibro de regula Esperanto (Complete textbook of regular Esperanto) was published in 1973. It has a 31-lesson systematic grammar, but the presentation is not complete since the second part has not yet been published. Still another one of Mimo&#039;s books exists only in manuscript form: Esperanto por la jaroj du mil (Esperanto for the year 2000). Consequently, the number of rules which can arise from the logical analysis of the 16-rule Fundamental grammar by adherents of the Analytic School is not ascertainable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Conclusion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if an investigation were to be undertaken for the purpose of listing each separate illustration of Esperanto language usage (as Gregor did for the Italian language), I have the impression that no two grammarians would induce more or less the same number of rules. The only judicious answer to the question about the number of grammatical rules in Esperanto is that which Gregor gave at the end of his study: &amp;quot;the grammatical rules of Es- peranto are much more than sixteen; however, Esperanto has fewer rules (i.e. items to be memorized) than other languages.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Notes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, K. and WRINGHIEN, G. Plena analiza gramatiko de Esperanto. 4th edition Rotterdam: Universala Esperanto-Asocio; 1980. 598 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt; GREGOR, Douglas B. Kiom da reguloy vere havas Esperanto? Science Revuo. 1982; 33 (1 [139]): 5-9. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt; KALOCSAY, Klman. Rendszeres Eszperant nyelvtn. Budapest: Tankonyvkiad; 1966. 243 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt; MALOVEC, Miroslav. Gramatiko de Esperanto. Trebic (Czechoslovakia): 1988 102 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt; WARINGHIEN, G. A.B.C. d&#039;Espranto  l&#039;usage de ceux qui aiment les lettres. Paris: SAT-Amikaro; 1967 74 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=xa&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Sur la vojoj de la Analiza Skolo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1987 278 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ze&amp;gt; SULCO, Rikardo (= Richard Schulz). Pledo por unueca lingvo. Paderborno: Esperatno-centro; 1985 287 p. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from David Morrow ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: David was apparently a bit upset at comments from Ralph Dumain on the Lojban community, and at Donald Harlow&#039;s comments.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am not a &amp;quot;computer nerd&amp;quot; and I am not much interested in science fiction. I am a middle aged blue collar worker, I only own a word processor, and the only fiction I read is usually Middle English or a few types of modern writing that are not speculative. I suspect some Esperantists see a real threat...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[With this, let us end the discussion of Lojban and Esperanto, at least until there are more speakers of Lojban (especially those who know Esperanto as well), who can offer facts and experiences, instead of opinions. Thus: &#039;n&#039; (the end of &#039;Esperanto and Lojban discussion&#039;)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s start with some comparative artificial linguistics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Nick Nicholas:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A text in Volapk, Esperanto, Ido, and Interglossa. To avoid the usual Pater Noster, I translated a Suzanne Vega song. I do not guarantee my stylistics in Volapk and Ido.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The Volapk was corrected with the help of Dean Gahlon, and the corrected text with notes from both are found in the text below.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LANGUAGE (1987) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If language were liquid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it would be rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Instead here we are&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a silence more eloquent&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than any word could ever be&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Words are too solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t move fast enough&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;to catch the blur in the brain&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that flies by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to meet you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in a timeless placeless place&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somewhere out of context&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and beyond all consequences&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let&#039;s go back to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;on Little West Twelfth&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;it is not far away&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the river is there&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and the sun and the space&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they are all laying low&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and we&#039;ll sit in the silence&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;that comes rushing in&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and is gone&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t use words again&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t mean what I meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;they don&#039;t say what I said&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They&#039;re just the crust of the meaning&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;with realms underneath&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Never even moved through&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== PK (Volapk, 1879) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If pk binom-la flumlik&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ininjogom-v&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Plaso is binobs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in stil&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt; pkfikum&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ka evelo kanom vd anik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vds binoms tu fimik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no mufoms sto vifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;al begetn nekleilati&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt; in zebm&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ailoveflitom ed egolom &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vipob oli kolkmn&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in top netimik netopik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;sempo pl zisim&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt; mov sukads valik &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gegolobsd in bumot&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;len Balsetelik Vesda Smast&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no binom fagik&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e flum binom us&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e sol e spads&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;valik nepleidoms [are unproud]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ed osiedobs in stil2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kel ainingonom ed egolom&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No odenugebob vdis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no maloms kelosi imalob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;no pkoms kelosi ipkob&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Binoms te lujal sima&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ko kinns diso&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pebemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo pemufl&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nevelo sgo pedugoll&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Nick: flumlik - I had vatik, wet [watery]. The original is liquid.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Dean: Your &#039;nebset&#039; [here] seems to be a noun form of nebsik=&#039;silence&#039;. My dictionary lists &#039;stil&#039; as a noun meaning &#039;silence&#039;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;Dean: interesting formation for &#039;blur&#039;, by the way! Nick: Lit. not-clear-thing. Cf. my Esp maldistintajxo. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGVO (Esperanto, 1887) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(An x means that the previous letter has a cap over it.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se la lingvo estus likva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Anstatauxe cxi tie ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento pli elokventa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol iam povus ia ajn vorto &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vortoj tro solidas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ili ne movigxas suficxe rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la maldistintajxon en la cerbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu preterflugas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi sxatus renkonti vin&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ie ekster cxirkauxteksto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj trans cxiuj sekvoj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni reiru al la konstruajxo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;cxe la Malgranda Okcidenta Dekdua&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;gxi ne estas malproksime&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la rivero estas tie&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj la suno kaj la spaco &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kusxas neefekte [not flashy] &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kaj ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kiu enfluegas kaj foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vortojn denove&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne esprimas kion mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;tiuj ne diras kion mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Ili estas nur la krusto de la signifo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegoj sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam tusxitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam perturbitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;neniam ecx tramovitaj&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Ido, 1907) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Se linguo esus liquida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol enfluegus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Vice hik ni estas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;en silento plu eloquenta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kam irgatempe povus irga vorto&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
vorti esas tro solida&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;oli ne movas sat rapide&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kapti la desdistintajo en la cerbero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua preterflugas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi amus te renkontar&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;in sentempa senloka loko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ulube exter kuntexto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e trans omna konsequi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ni retroirez ad la konstrukturo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;che Mikra Uesta Dekeduesma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ol ne esas dista&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la rivero esas ibe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e la suno e la spaco&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;omni jacas base&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;e ni sidos en la silento&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;qua enfluegas e foriras&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi ne uzos vorti itere&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne esprimas quon mi esprimis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;olti ne diras quon mi diris&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Oli esas nur la krusto dil signifiko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;kun landegi sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;Nultempe tusxita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe perturbita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;nultempe mem tramovita&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interglossa, ancestor of Glosa, is interesting in that it emulates English &amp;amp; Chinese in having an isolative structure, and jettisoning the parts-of-speech distinctions endemic to flexional/agglutinative lingos. It is essentially Basic English in Greek; there are about 10 verbs, qualified by &#039;amplifiers&#039; ending in -o. Nouns are made distinct from (presumably) adverbs by being prefixed by a location preposition, a possessive, a numeral, or a &#039;general article&#039; like all, some, or the default &#039;u&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== U GLOSA (Interglossa, 1943) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Postulo u Glosa habe liquo;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re forto kine in.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Na habe loco para vice re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in no-Phono; Su dicte major&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;de pan Verba u Chron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Plu Verba habe stereo excesso.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no kine satio celero&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;tendo u Rapo de no-Luce-re in Cerbera;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su kine tele in Aero plus apo. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volo habe syn Tu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in Topo minus Topo plus minus Chron,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;extra plu syn Logo-re&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus tele pan Sequo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Peti Na kine verso a mi Cameri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;loco micro occidento Via mono du.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Re no habe tele&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus u Potami habe loco apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;U Heli syn Volumo habe non-alto,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;plus na post gene sedi in no_Phono;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Su forto kine in plus apo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi no acte utilo plu Verba itero.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no dicte Re; Mi pre dicte.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu no habe u Significo; Mi pre date.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Mu eque no major de Area de Significo&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;syn plu hypo mega Loco,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge acte sensitivo,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zero tem ge micro mote,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cleisto zero tem ge kine trans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Despite my criticisms: there are some cute syntactic features in this Lingo. Take my translation of with realms underneath: with plural underneath big place. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ivan Derzhanski supplied a corresponding translation into Intal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LINGUO (Intal, 1970) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Si le linguo esud likvid&lt;br /&gt;
it vud influega&lt;br /&gt;
Vise to yen nos&lt;br /&gt;
in silentes maks elokvent&lt;br /&gt;
kam eni vort potud ever es&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Le vortos es tro solid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non mova sat rapid&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;por kapta le nebulaj nel serber&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel preterfluga e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi volud vu renkontra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in sintemp sinlok lok&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;somlok ekstra kontekst&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e ultra omni konsekvens&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An le Min Oksident Desduesmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a le konstruktur let nos rivada&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;non es fern&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le river es ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e le sun e le spas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les omnos yasa bas&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;e nos ve sida in le silentes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kel influega e davada&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mi non ve uza vortos plus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non esprima ko mi esprimed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;les non dira ko mi dired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Es nur le krust del sens&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;kun landegos sube&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp tokat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp perturbat&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Nultemp mem tramovat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Bob&#039;s corresponding translation for Lojban. Not only does it allow comparison with the other ALs, but this particular text shows off a lot of features about Lojban. Bob comments on the translation, presents a literal English equivalent, and comments on the effort and its implications for artificial languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== (Lojban, 1991) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The translation is not quite as literal as Nick&#039;s appears to be (not being familiar with the other three ALs). I have tried to maintain a sense of the style, denotation, and connotation, of the words used. However, Lojban is NOT an Indo-European language, and certain things must be rephrased in order to be both (unambiguously) grammatical and to capture the meaning correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is less tolerant of metaphor than other languages, but does allow analytic metaphors (where the predicate place structures are semantically preserved in the combination).&lt;br /&gt;
# Nick describes the text as a song. I saw no apparent match in rhythm and/or syllable count between lines of the English and the AL versions. I presume therefore that the translation is in free verse and is not intended to match the music (which I don&#039;t know anyway).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mela&#039;e lu bangu li&#039;u ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi bangu cu litki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.inaja ri sutfle fi ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.iku&#039;i na go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.ili&#039;i nunsma semau ro valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;temau leka zanselsku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi valsi cu duksligu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na sutra co banzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le mu&#039;e kavbu le besysutra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi sutfau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi djica lenu penmi do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ca noda vi node&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ma&#039;inai rodi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ba&#039;o ro jagdimna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;u mi&#039;o xruti fi le dinju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;pe vi la cmalu ke stici gaimoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i na&#039;e darno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le rirxe cu zvati&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le solri .e le vanbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;cu no&#039;e se zgana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i mi&#039;o vu zutse va&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;lei smaji poi sutflefau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e ba purci &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .ai mi banoroi pilno loi valsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i ri na smuni lemi selsmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e na velsku lemi selsku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e pilka le smuni sekai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le baltutra nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;poi noroi se pencu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi se jicla&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;gi&#039;e noroi mecrai se pagre &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following is a literal English translation of the Lojban: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That represented by &amp;quot;Language&amp;quot;. New topic. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Language is liquid,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;only if it (language) fast-flows to here.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But not-true, the latter.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Abstract-experiencing-of event-of-silence which-is-more-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;than each (any) word,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;more-in the property of ameliorative(good)-being-expressed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(The mass of) Words are excess-solid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) are not quick such-that sufficient&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the abstract-achievement of capturing the brain-quick- thing&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which quickly-occurs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is-past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I desire the event of meeting you&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;during no-when, at nowhere,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;according-to-reference-frame none&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the aftermath of all result-dooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Suggestion!) We return (ourselves-elliptical) to the building&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which is at that called &#039;Little type-of West Twelfth- thing&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other-than far (it is - elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The river is at (it-elliptical).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun and the environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;are neutrally-other-than observed (neither extreme of observed/non-observed)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;We there-yonder sit in-environment &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;this (mass of) silence which swift-flowingly-happens &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then is past.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I in-the-future-never use (of the mass of) Words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;They (words) do-not mean my thing-meant&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are-not forms-of-expressing my things-expressed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and are skins of the meaning, characterized by&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;the grand-territory inside&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which never is touched&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never is stirred&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and never least-superlative passed-through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now a note/complaint/what have you which I think is most revealing of the nature and &#039;neutrality&#039; of the other languages. In the translations of the last verse, specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I won&#039;t use words again they don&#039;t mean what I mean they don&#039;t say what I say ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nick translated both occurrences of English words &#039;mean&#039; and &#039;say&#039; with the same counterpart in each of the other three languages. But the English words do not denote the same thing. When a person says something, it is different from when words say something (in Lojban terms, the human is the expresser x1 of cusku, while the words are the medium of expression x4 of cusku). Likewise, the &amp;quot;meaning&amp;quot; of words is semantically distinct from the &amp;quot;meaning intention&amp;quot; of one who might use the words. This is intuitive to an English speaker, who knows the range of meaning of the words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If each of the other ALs use the same word to capture both senses of &amp;quot;mean&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;say&amp;quot;, then I assert that they are flawed and biased towards English and/or every other language that blurs these distinctions. I suspect that such blurring, if in other languages, will tend to be only in the culturally similar European ones. If Esperanto, Ido, and Volapk all borrowed European roots along with their complete semantic baggage, then those languages are going to be inherently less understandable to a non- European who does not share the cultural background.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a particularly insidious kind of bias because, as one Esperantist has pointed out, it seems that both the European and non-European are having &#039;the shared experience&#039; of acquiring the AL they both learn. But for one learner, it is predominantly a regularized, simplified, form of their own language; for the other, the subtle se- mantics needed for poetry is not shared. (This criticism applies more obviously for BASIC English, since people can easily see the confusing semantic range of the word-plus- preposition combinations that make that language work.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I do not claim that the difficulty is insurmountable. Certainly non-Europeans have written poetry in Esperanto that was understood and appreciated by Europeans, possibly in a way that is not as easily possible if the European had to learn the native language of the poet, which has a much heavier cultural/connotative load. I suspect that (European) speakers who can converse in Esperanto fluently with non-Europeans, and who therefore are thinking in Es- peranto rather than translating from their native language as they go, have largely bypassed this difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My points can be summarized as two:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. I agree with those that criticize ALs implicitly as being languages that people think they know after finishing the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. As a corollary, it is a disadvantage for an AL to be &#039;much like&#039; any other single language in particular. The speakers of that language have either a benefit or a handicap, depending on how you look at it; they have an easier time learning subtle features of the AL and a harder time recognizing the differences that MUST be present for it to be an effective intercultural communications tool. The former is an unfair bias; the latter calls into question whether the AL is suitable as an IL. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since I lead the Lojban effort, I of course (biasedly?) support Lojban as overcoming these issues. Lojban is just as easy to learn as other ALs with lots of regularity and simplification. But since the language is tied to a predicate grammar strikingly different from any other lan- guage, a speaker translating anything but the simplest statements must significantly reformulate the expression (as shown in the translation above) in order to properly express it in Lojban. The result is easily understood to another Lojban speaker, and indeed in back-translation, is not too difficult in English. But a Lojbanist MUST think clearly about what s/he is saying in order to even say the sentence; those who use other ALs do not necessarily do so. Thus, I think Lojban aids a learner in acquiring the &#039;different perspective&#039; of a second language, and a Lojbanist who gets by the initial hurdle of unfamiliar words and structures more rapidly acquires that added competence that is considered &#039;knowing&#039; a language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Lojbanic Fairy Tale ===&lt;br /&gt;
by John Cowan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following appears to be a lot of text, but it employs the repetition and simple syntax inherent to good fairy tales. Also, since the tale should be recognizable to most Lojbanists, it should be relatively easy to understand from a word-for word translation effort. I have made it still easier, by forcing line breaks at key grammatical boundaries. Give it a try; turn to the English translation later only if necessary.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani&lt;br /&gt;
: tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib.&lt;br /&gt;
: goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
: le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
:: seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
: semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: .i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
:: semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
: gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
:: lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
::: le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
: seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
jbobliku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section. This is the uncorrected letter which was actually sent, and has some minor semantics errors, though it should be understandable.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot. de&#039;i la&#039;e li so pi&#039;e pa vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi doi ti.pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda ledo xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;.i .e&#039;o ko kanro&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br \&amp;gt;la silvian.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Translation, commentary, and parse diagram later in the section.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A la lojbangirz. Group Translation Project? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1982-1984, Jim Carter wrote extensively in the then- version of Loglan (he claimed an hour a day). Because the language was ill-defined, he used several non-standard usages, and the arguments over these non-standard usages were among the precipitating events for the political squabble that effectively destroyed the Institute (and still haunts us today).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before this happened, though, he wrote and published several pieces in Loglan, including at least two short stories. These stories were written in the language, not translated from English, although Jim did provide rough translations into English. The two stories, &amp;quot;The Welding Shop&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; are the most extensive writing ever in Loglan. As original works, they serve as a starting point for a Loglan literature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim has given us copyright release and permission to retranslate or update (or what have you) his texts into the current Lojban, and to use them as the basis for teaching materials and/or a reader. We intend to do so. Or rather, I would like to see you, the Lojban community, make this effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a trivial job. Some of Jim&#039;s variant constructs were not added to Lojban. Jim tended to use vocabulary based on the old Loglan vocabulary, which was studded with gawdawful tanru. Lojban, of course, has some 40% more gismu and a richer grammar than the earlier Log- lan; hence its expressive power is greater and the phrasing should be changed. Another difficulty factor is length. The stories are not short, running several typewritten pages, perhaps 170 and 90 paragraphs, respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until the effort is completed, we are asking everyone to try their hand at this. Participate to any extent you choose. Translate a word, a sentence, or the entire paragraph. Even the most novice among you can reinvent a tanru or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Send your contribution to us, and we&#039;ll collate ideas and print the best result(s). People who submit a full paragraph translation will be given additional paragraphs to work on, and we&#039;ll publish these results as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suggestions - please provide an English equivalent for whatever you submit so that reviewers know what part of the text you are expressing, and can check their (and your) understanding. Make tanru or lujvo as you choose. If you don&#039;t know how to use rafsi in making lujvo use the ex- panded form of replacing the final vowel of each but the last term with &#039;y&#039;, or even hyphenate the gismu together so we know you want a lujvo instead of a tanru. (An example: rilti-cadzu-bende -&amp;gt; riltycadzybende = marching-band).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Feel free to comment and suggest other conventions. This is an experiment and we don&#039;t know the best ways for it to work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The complete result will be assembled into a story, checked by Jim Carter to ensure he is willing to have his name on the result, and published as a whole. All contributors to the final text will be noted for historical purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first paragraph of the &amp;quot;Akira&amp;quot; story (which is a sci- ence fiction story of a sort), previously offered to the computer mailing-list &amp;quot;lojban-list&amp;quot;, will serve as start- off and example. The process of preparing the paragraph is shown, to give you an idea of what to expect with later paragraphs. The Lojban effort was by Sylvia Rutiser. Since only one person worked on this effort, everyone is invited to comment on the tanru she chose, or to suggest corrections. Then go to work on the second paragraph, which follows thereafter. Deadline for publication submittals is approximately 20 May 1991 (though we&#039;ll consider others received later in preparing the final version).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What we&#039;re providing: the first paragraph of the Akira story, as translated into English in two styles. The first is roughly identical to Jim&#039;s original English translation, and is somewhat colloquial. The second is an attempt to structurally convey Jim&#039;s original Loglan (with necessary corrections) in &amp;quot;Lojban-structured&amp;quot; English, the style in which we typically print &amp;quot;literal translations&amp;quot; of Lojban. tanru are literally translated; many or most of these need to be re-invented or at least thought about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira reeled in the fish to his inflatable boat. It was fat, spotted, silvery, and delicious. He put it in his icebox. The oven-like sun cooked his brown skin, and he retired under the canopy. But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder. Someone floated down on a parachute. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe the pilot needs to be rescued.&amp;quot; He threw up the kite-sail into the wind and sailed toward him. He thought, &amp;quot;This will make a great (bold) story when I tell it. My young friends will love it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.akir. (he-5) turn-pull(s) the fish to his-5 air-full boat. It (the fish) is fat and round-marked and silver-like and delicious.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He-5 puts it (the fish) inside his-5 ice-box. The oven-sun cooks his-5 brown skin and therefore- motivatedly recur-self-safe-puts (himself) under the shadow-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which-is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something-4 down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by .akir., who thinks: Perhaps the flyer-driver dangerous-without-makes needingly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by narrator: He-5 throws the flyer-sail at the breeze and sail-goes towards it-4.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Said by him-5: It (the event-just-mentioned = the danger- without-making) will bravely be a history of-something-3 by me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My young friends will long-time-be-fond-of it-3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: Sylvia says that she is not sure that her tanru/lujvo are the best, and was most dissatisfied by the metaphor for falling by parachute. Feel free to suggest better ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is Sylvia&#039;s text, as submitted uneditted. As printed, it has some semantic errors. After wards, Bob discusses these errors, and suggests corrections. But the text is grammatical, and should be readable without the corrections, especially if you&#039;ve read the intermediate English above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti .i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska .i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe .i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a .ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani .i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru .i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u .i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru .i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for Sylvia&#039;s back-translation of her effort, with comments from Bob. Bob has left some questions open for further suggestions and improvements. The analysis may show that translation is neither a simple, nor an absolutely certain process (but it&#039;s a fun way to learn the language).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .akir. goi ko&#039;u ca carcpu le finpe seka&#039;a le ko&#039;u varselclu bloti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the fish (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: I don&#039;t much like &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;; if you don&#039;t know what it means from context and experience, you&#039;d be unlikely to guess. Lojban has a gismu &amp;quot;jendu&amp;quot; that could be useful. Also the need to use &amp;quot;seka&#039;a&amp;quot; indicates that &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot; has obviously got the wrong place structure. To make my objection more obvious, here are two alternate sentences with different objects than a fish:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the knob (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira (now called it5) now turn-pulls the pier (with destination it5&#039;s air-filled boat). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These make sense with implication of a totally different meaning of &amp;quot;turn-pulls&amp;quot;. Perhaps muvdu would be a useful component of the tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra cu plana je cukselbarna je rijnyska&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The-recent-it is plump and round-marked and silver-color.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Akira has been assigned to ko&#039;u, ra can only refer to the fish. We need to think about what we want skari to mean. Does &amp;quot;ti skari&amp;quot; mean &amp;quot;This is a color&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;This is colored&amp;quot;, or are these the same thing? A safe way would be the tanru &amp;quot;skari rijnysi&#039;a&amp;quot; &amp;quot;colorishly silver-like&amp;quot;. Any other ideas? The original had &amp;quot;delicious&amp;quot; as another property of the fish, but this should be easy for someone to fix.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca punji ri le ko&#039;u lektanxe&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now puts last-it at it5&#039;s cold-box.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The English uses &#039;it&#039; here, but for clarity, I would use le finpe instead of ri. Akira probably put it inside, not just &amp;quot;at&amp;quot; the bold-box, but this may be picky. You could add the word nenri to the end to be clear (at the cold-box insides), or use lekseltanxe, putting the fish at the cold box-contents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pe&#039;a le toknu solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Figuratively (the oven sun is a cooker of it5&#039;s brown skin ) end figurative. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole sentence might be figurative, or maybe just the first tanru; I would take sunburn as a result of sun- cooking skin. Sylvia has marked it correctly for a whole- sentence-figurative. With toknu simsa solri (oven-like sun), the figurative markers would not be necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora points out that tanru can be both restrictive and non-restrictive, and prefers an explicit relative clause instead of &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u bunre skapi&amp;quot;. The existing text could be taken to imply that the sun cooked Akira&#039;s brown skin, but had no effect on the paler portions of his hide; this would be a restrictive interpretation: &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi poi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin that is brown. The more plausible interpretation is &amp;quot;le ko&#039;u skapi noi bunre&amp;quot; (it5&#039;s skin, which incidentally is brown). If nothing else, this example shows how ambiguous tanru are, and yet how easily they can be diambiguated when necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije ko&#039;u nitkla le santa mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade because of (last sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has translated &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; as a logical connective between two sentences. But given that a motivational &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; occurs later in the English, it should probably be reflected in the connective:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isemu&#039;ibo ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and-therefore-motivating it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
or even combine the two sentences:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le toknu simsa solri cu jukpa le ko&#039;u bunre skapi semu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u nitkla le santa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The oven-like sun cooks of it5&#039;s brown skin, motivating the event of it5 under-comes to the umbrella/shade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the original for the last sumti was &amp;quot;canopy&amp;quot;, a more exact tanru might be selctino drudi &amp;quot;shadowing-roof&amp;quot;. Other possibilities? &amp;quot;Under-comes&amp;quot; is a bit more limited than Jim&#039;s original &amp;quot;recur-self-safe-puts (himself)&amp;quot; - the recurrence and the safety are lost. Can someone do better?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca catlu fe le gapru mu&#039;i le nu da ca zbasu lo linje pe loi danmo ge&#039;u zi&#039;e noi ragve le tsani &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 now looks at the up-thing because of something1 now makes a line related to smoke which-incidentally is across the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fe is superfluous, as is the ge&#039;u; the latter is reasonable though, in that elidable terminators are welcome when they help break up a complex structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re in a narrative. The ca on the bridi therefore means that story-time is the same as the previous sentence. Thus Sylvia&#039;s sentence translates as &amp;quot;It5 at the same time looks at ... which is just then making a line ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Looking at the original, we can see that a bit is missing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But he suddenly looked up, for something was making a line of smoke through the sky, and suddenly exploded with a flash and a clap of thunder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short-time he-5 suddenly up-looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Because-motivationally something makes a line which-is smoke through the sky, and suddenly explodes (which- is?) shock-bright and a thunder/lightning-producer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Suddenly&amp;quot; is suksa. Jim&#039;s original used &amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; (implying &amp;quot;bazi&amp;quot;) where Sylvia used &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;. But one other things is wrong. Akira looks up because of the moving across the sky and the explosion - indeed, it was probably the latter that caught his attention, and he later noticed the line of smoke and inferred the motion from this. Sylvia has exiled the explosion to a separate sentence that has no causal connection to the looking up, and Akira is looking up because of the smoke-line. What she has said makes perfect sense, but is not what the original said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My attempt (making minimal effort - I could probably do better, but this is your project):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.izibo suksa fa lenu ko&#039;u gapcatlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;.imu&#039;ibo da zbasu lo danmo linji noi ragve le tsani ku&#039;o gi&#039;ebabo spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Shortly, is sudden, the event of it5&#039;s above-looking.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This is because of somethingx making a smoke-line, which is across the sky, and-then exploding characterized by intense-illumination and lightning-noise. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note my non-English phrasing of the first part, due to &amp;quot;sudden&amp;quot; not normally being an English predicate. Note also that &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; that is required to terminate the noi relative clause. Otherwise, the translation would read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because of the event of somethingx making a smoke-line, which crosses the sky and-then explodes characterized by intense-illumination and lightning- noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The smoke-line did not explode.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i da ca spoja sekai le ka carmi te gusni gi&#039;e lindi selrinka savru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something1 now explodes (with intense illumination) and lightning-caused type of noise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Sylvia&#039;s version, the sentences should probably be joined with &amp;quot;.ije&amp;quot; to be logically correct, since &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; is by definition a logical variable. Pragmatically, what she did was OK, though - in non-logical argument, a listener would understand that the &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; in both sentences is the same. The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; says that this is happening at the same time as the previous sentence (i.e. when something makes a line). It is better left tenseless (the English &amp;quot;and now ...&amp;quot; would typically equate to &amp;quot;and then immediately&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de ca masno bukfa&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something2 now slowly cloth-falls.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; again indicates simultaneity with the previous sentence. Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;Something down-float-flies using-tool a fall-cloth.&amp;quot; would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de nitflevoi sepi&#039;o lo falbu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora suggests &amp;quot;cloth-brake-fall&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i de bukyjabre farlu. .i la .akir cu ponse lu lo vijyjatna ca nitcu le nu se sidju li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Akira now thinks &amp;quot;an airplane-captain now needs an event of being assisted&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has Akira making a bolder guess as to what was flying before it exploded. It may not have been an airplane, and indeed, since this is a science fiction story, I suspect it isn&#039;t (I didn&#039;t check). Jim&#039;s original tanru was &amp;quot;flyer-driver&amp;quot; or volsazri&amp;quot;. Again, I think the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is unnecessary, and more Lojbanically unspecified in favor of &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. Need for assistance is a rather unintense need for rescue, though technically correct (the faller needs assistance in &amp;quot;continuing to live&amp;quot;). Perhaps someone can come up with a better expression (consider &amp;quot;ckape&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u ca lafti le falnu vi le brife gi&#039;e fankla ru It5 now lifts the sail at the location of the breeze and sail goes to earlier-it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; - a lot happening simultaneously in Sylvia&#039;s story. &amp;quot;de&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le farlu&amp;quot; are clearer than the vague &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot;, which could refer to a lot of things at this point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia has misunderstood Jim&#039;s description of the means of propoulsion. It is a &amp;quot;kite-sail&amp;quot; which Akira &amp;quot;throws into the wind&amp;quot;. This sounds rather exotic, while Sylvia&#039;s boat sounds like an ordinary sailboat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How about something like:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u renro le volfalnu seri&#039;a le nu kavbu le ca&#039;erbi&#039;e .i fankla le farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 throws the flying-sail causing the state of catching the pusher-breeze. Sail-goer to the faller.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u cu pensi lu lo ca fasnu ba virnu se lisri fi mi .i le&#039;i mi citpendo bazu nelci ri li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 thinks &amp;quot;a now-event is going to be a brave story- subject told by me. The set of my young-friends will for a long time be fond of last-it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is vaguer than Jim&#039;s original: &amp;quot;a now event&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;the event-just-mentioned&amp;quot;, which, following Akira&#039;s thoughts as quoted, is specifically &amp;quot;the rescue&amp;quot;. If you take the quotes as literal thoughts, &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the event-just- mentioned&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also have a little trouble with &amp;quot;a brave story- subject&amp;quot;, though Jim did something similar to convey &amp;quot;bold story&amp;quot;; if the story-subject is bold, it is probably a person - yet the story is described as about the rescue, not about either the rescuer or rescuee, either of whom could have been brave. I suspect &amp;quot;banli&amp;quot; is better than &amp;quot;virnu&amp;quot; for bold, or at least a compound of the two &amp;quot;vribanli&amp;quot;, and modifying &amp;quot;lisri&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;se lisri&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;bazu&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;will for a long time&amp;quot;, but rather &amp;quot;will a long time later&amp;quot;. I think Sylvia wanted &amp;quot;baze&#039;u&amp;quot; &amp;quot;in the future during a long interval&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sets do not normally perform actions or have feelings like &amp;quot;being fond of&amp;quot;. Sylvia wants a mass &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le&#039;i&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; unfortunately refers back to the set of friends, giving us a set noted for self-love (truly unusual in a set). Jim&#039;s original assigned the rescue to a pro- sumti somewhere between &amp;quot;di&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ko&#039;i&amp;quot; (something3/it3), but we are in someone&#039;s thoughts here, and I suspect anaphora are not in good order. (It also is unclear whether the friends are fond of the rescue or the story about the rescue in Jim&#039;s original.) &amp;quot;The rescue&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;the story&amp;quot; should be used here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sylvia&#039;s effort was remarkable, given the complexity of the text and that she had little or no help; she did use the old parser to check her work. We are not expecting the average Lojbanist to do this well on a first attempt. Translation is non-trivial as an exercise in language use. Especially when you try to capture the style and sentence complexity of the original, as Sylvia did. Jim did not use trivial grammar in his story. When you first write in Lojban, give it your best shot, but expect to make lots of errors. You&#039;ll find yourself learning quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, feel free to comment on this text, or even use the pieces Sylvia and Bob came up with along with your own ideas to come up with your own version of the paragraph. Useful comments and a revised translation may appear in next issue. Then brave souls can try all or part of the following, which is the second paragraph of the story. The first version again is colloquial English, and the second, Lojbanized-English, back-translated from the original old- Loglan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parachute was floating in the sea, but the pilot was nowhere to be seen. Akira thought, &amp;quot;Maybe he drowned&amp;quot;. He pulled the parachute into the stern of the boat, and he discovered a harness containing a radio and a knife and a flashlight. But nobody was wearing it. He called, &amp;quot;Hey, pilot! Where are you? Say something, because I don&#039;t see you.&amp;quot; But nobody answered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New paragraph medium-time-offset the fall-cloth floats to the sea. and in contrast the flyer-driver is-not-seen. Said by it5 (Akira): mild-belief (perhaps) it2 past water- breathed. Said by narrator: it5 inside-pulls the fall- cloth to the behind-part of the boat. It5 discovers something1 which incidentally-is-a-joined-garment, one which is joined to a radio and a knife and a hand-light- device. In contrast, no something2 garment-uses something1 (the harness). Said by it5: &amp;quot;Attention the flyer-driver: At where? (Imperative) Cry out and there- fore *motivationally I see you.&amp;quot; Said by narrator: In contrast, no *something1 respondingly-talks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notes on some errors in Jim&#039;s original: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The motivational causal seems like the wrong choice of causal. Crying out won&#039;t motivate the seeing. But be careful. Other causal choices may be no better, and you may want a non-causal to express Jim&#039;s intent by the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Be careful of your &#039;somethings&#039; in this passage; unfortunately Jim didn&#039;t. In this particular case, for example, either 1) use a different &#039;something&#039; than &amp;quot;something1&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;something2&amp;quot;, 2) use the UI cmavo that cancels anaphora (but this cancels the it5 assignment too), 3) correctly use .ije between sentences using the same referent of something, 4) or assign a specific &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;something&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, here is Bob&#039;s quarterly in-Lojban essay. As before, no translation is given; this is the &#039;prize&#039; that is only for people who dare. (We&#039;ll look at and respond to any questions, responses, or translation attempts that you send us, but you have to try first.) Bob is writing directly in Lojban, and trying to &#039;think in the language&#039; rather than express ideas in English and translate them. The topic this issue turned out to be more timely than Bob thought it would be when he came up with the idea for it several months ago. Enjoy!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o pucaki le prula&#039;i ke xamoi masti ku mi rirci zgana ja pensi le cmene po&#039;u la. ku,EIT. .i mi ca cfari lenu pensi lo sidbo noi binxo co mutce vajni roma&#039;a .ije mi pensi le sidbo noi srana la djim. braun. noi mi sinma .ije mi ca djica lenu ci&#039;arsku le sidbo fu la me &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i le ki&#039;a sidbo vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lu&#039;e le sidbo ca glico jenai lojbo valsi .isemu&#039;ibo mi troci co finti lo jbovla .i .ei le jbovla terfanva &amp;quot;zoi .gic. hero .gic.&amp;quot; goi ko&#039;a .i kiku mi ca ciska&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pu pamoi fa lezu&#039;o mi sisku le gicyvla smuni du&#039;o le glico vlamarcku .i mi binxo lo jimpe be leza&#039;i le valsi cu so&#039;imei smuni .i mi ca troci lenu cusku loi smuni gi&#039;e fanva ri la lojban. .ibabo mi ka&#039;e casnu leka la djim. braun me ko&#039;a pe&#039;i .i de&#039;e velsku lei smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o pamai le me ko&#039;a mormuprai goi ko&#039;e selranmi gi&#039;e tsali je virnu ke cevni joi nanmu .i remai le gicvla cu smuni roda poi nanmu gi&#039;e tarti le simsa be ko&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(to .iku&#039;i la xeros. cu ba&#039;e ninmu selranmi fi loi xelso gi&#039;e na&#039;e me ko&#039;a .i le glibau cu ponse le drata je kampu bo krasi valsi poi smuni le ba&#039;e ninmu poi me ko&#039;a .i la lojban. ka&#039;e pilno lo valsi pamei poi smuni le sidbo secau .o&#039;a leka smuni le selcinse toi)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cimai .uinai le gicyvla cu smuni so&#039;i drata .i smuni roda poi vajni prenu to ji&#039;a cficku rajraipre toi zi&#039;a poi tatmo&#039;a zanmupli prenu zi&#039;a .oi poi nujdja klesi .i le&#039;i smuni cu mutce vrici&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o do smuni ma fau lenu do skicu de sepi&#039;o le gicyvla po&#039;u ko&#039;a .i cai na&#039;eka&#039;e jimpe le gicyvla .i mi ba&#039;e na xusra le nu la djim braun. cu nujdja zo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;u mupli leka lezu&#039;o fanva lo valsi cu mutce nandu .i mi cuxna pa smuni be le gicyvla be&#039;o poi seldji .i mi pilno le jbovla poi velsku le selcu&#039;a smuni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi jinvi lenu le vajni sidbo po&#039;e ko&#039;a cu si&#039;o lo prenu cu pijvri tarti .i mi jinvi lenu la djim. braun pu mupli leka pijvritai .iki&#039;ubo tu&#039;e la djim. braun. zivle piso&#039;e leri nunjmive lepu&#039;u finti .i ri ki&#039;u le bangu ka rutni ku to&#039;e tersinma le certu noi la djim. braun. cu nitcu joi djica lenu ke&#039;a sarji tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a le ca natmi gunma sonci cu mupli leka pijvritai kei fau le jamna be le rakyjecta .i .a&#039;o ma&#039;a selctu fi loika pijvritai gi&#039;e morfu&#039;i tatri bacapiso&#039;iroi le vo&#039;a nunji&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la pexykerf. .e le ci cribe vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Yellow-hair, and the three bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goldilocks and the Three Bears.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o fu&#039;e ka&#039;u le ci prenu cribe cu se zdani tu&#039;i le tricu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New topic) (Open indicator scope) I know culturally: The three person-bears are nested (in a house), associated- with-site the trees.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le je&#039;a barda cribe po&#039;u la pafrib. goi ko&#039;a vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The indeed-large-bear which-is called Father-Bear is assigned as it1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le no&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la mamrib. goi ko&#039;e vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The not-really-large-bear which-is called Mother-Bear is assigned as it2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le to&#039;e barda cribe po&#039;u la ve&#039;arib. goi ko&#039;i vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The opposite-of-large-bear which-is called Child-Bear is assigned as it3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Once upon a time&amp;quot; the three bears lived in a house by the trees, the biggest bear, Papa Bear, who we&#039;ll call #1, the medium-size bear, Mama Bear, who we&#039;ll call #2, and the smallest bear, Baby Bear, who we&#039;ll call #3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo citka kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) Each of the bears possesses one of the eating cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a kabri cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s cup is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e kabri cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s cup is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i kabri cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s cup is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each bear has a bowl. #1&#039;s bowl is large. #2&#039;s bowl is medium-size. #3&#039;s bowl is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo zutse stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sitter-chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a stizu cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s chair is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e stizu cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s chair is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i stizu cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s chair is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sitting chair. #1&#039;s chair is large. #2&#039;s chair is medium-size. #3&#039;s chair is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ji&#039;a ro le cribe cu ponse pa lo sipna ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) In addition, each of the bears possesses one of the sleeper-beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;a ckana cu je&#039;a barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1&#039;s bed is indeed-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;e ckana cu no&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2&#039;s bed is not-really-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le ko&#039;i ckana cu to&#039;e barda&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3&#039;s bed is opposite-of-large.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, each bear has a sleeping bed. #1&#039;s bed is large. #2&#039;s bed is medium-size. #3&#039;s bed is tiny.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears are awake&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e tisna le kabri lei cilmo gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and fill the cups with (some-of)-the wet-grain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mu&#039;i le nu citka le pamoi sanmi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivatedly-because the-event-of eating the first-meal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i lei gurni cu dukse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;However, the grain is excess&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ka glare kei le pu&#039;u citka kei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;in the property of warm-ness by-standard the-process-of- eating&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le zu&#039;o le cribe cu cadzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;by-reason-therefore the-activity-of the bears walking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i melbi djedi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Beautiful day. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears awaken, and fill their cups with porridge in order to eat breakfast. But the porridge is too hot to eat, justifying the bears going for a walk. It&#039;s a nice day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le verba po&#039;u la pexykerf. goi ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The child, who-is called Yellow-hair, assigned to it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cu catlu le nenri be le zdani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;looks at the inside of the house.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no prenu cu nenri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;No person is inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu ko&#039;u nenri cadzu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;therefore-motivating the-event-of it5 inside-walking. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The child, Goldilocks, who we&#039;ll call #5, looks into the house. Nobody is there, so #5 walks inside. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three cups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u xagji&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is hungry&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu citka lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- eating-of-the-grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;a gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-eats of-it1&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-indeed-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;e gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-eats of-it2&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the grain) is-excessively-opposite-of-warm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci citka lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-eats of-it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the grain) is-perfect in the property of warmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u citka pi ro lei ko&#039;i gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 eating all-of it3&#039;s grain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three cups. #5 is hungry, and she therefore decides to eat the porridge. First #5 tries to eat #1&#039;s porridge, but it is too hot. Second, #5 tries to eat #2&#039;s porridge, but it is too cold. Third, #5 tries to eat #3&#039;s porridge. It&#039;s perfectly warm, and she therefore eats all of the porridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three chairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u tatpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu zutse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sitting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-sits-on it1&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-indeed-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;e stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-sits-on it2&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the chair) is-excessively-opposite-of-high.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-sits-on it3&#039;s chair.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the chair) is-perfect in the property of highness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u zutse le ko&#039;i stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the activity of it5 sitting-on it3&#039;s chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;a le nu ri porpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;causing-therefore the-event-of it (the chair) breaks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three chairs. #5 is tired, and she therefore decides to sit. First #5 tries to sit on #1&#039;s chair, but it is too high. Second, #5 tries to sit on #2&#039;s chair, but it is too low. Third, #5 tries to sit on #3&#039;s chair. It&#039;s perfect in height, and she therefore sits in #3&#039;s chair, causing it to break.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;u zgana le ci ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New Para.) It5 observes the three beds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u mu&#039;erta&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It5 is much-tired&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le nu jdice le nu sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-event-of-deciding-the-event-of- sleepily-resting-on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, it5 tryingly-rests-on it1&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse je&#039;a jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-indeed-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;e ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second, it5 tryingly-rests-on it2&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i ri dukse to&#039;e jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But it (the bed) is-excessively-opposite-of-firm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i cimai ko&#039;u troci vreta le ko&#039;i ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Third, it5 tryingly-rests-on it3&#039;s bed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ri prane le ka jdari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It (the bed) is-perfect in the property of firmness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
semu&#039;i le zu&#039;o ko&#039;u sipna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;motivating-therefore the-activity-of it5 sleeping. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;5 observes the three beds. #5 is very tired, and she therefore decides to rest. First #5 tries to rest on #1&#039;s bed, but it is too hard. Second, #5 tries to rest on #2&#039;s bed, but it is too soft. Third, #5 tries to rest on #3&#039;s bed. It&#039;s perfectly firm, and she therefore sleeps. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le cribe cu xruti gi&#039;e djica lei gurni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The bears return and want the grain. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bears return and want their porridge. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) It1 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu da pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something1 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bowl, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu de pu citka piso&#039;u lei mi gurni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something2 ate a-little-of my grain.&amp;quot; #2 looks at its bowl, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something ate some of my porridge.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a kabri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its cup&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu di pu citka pi ba&#039;e ro lei mi gurni li&#039;u&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Something3 ate ALL of my grain.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bowl, and says in its soft-voice, &amp;quot;Something ate ALL of my porridge.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something12 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#1 looks at its chair, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexire pu zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something22 sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its chair, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a stizu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its chair&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixire pu ba&#039;e daspo zutse le mi stizu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something33 DESTRUCTIVELY sat-on my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its chair, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something destructively sat in my chair.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It1 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;a je&#039;a cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it1&#039;s indeed-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu daxici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;1 looks at its bed, and says in its loud voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;e catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It2 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;e no&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it2&#039;s not-really-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dexici pu sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something23 sleepily-rested-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;2 looks at its bed, and says in its medium voice, &amp;quot;Something slept in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;i catlu le vo&#039;a ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;It3 looks at its bed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;ebabo cusku sepi&#039;o le ko&#039;i to&#039;e cladu voksa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;and then expresses using-tool it3&#039;s opposite-of-loud-voice&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu dixici pu je ba&#039;e ca sipna vreta le mi ckana li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Something13 was-and-IS_NOW sleepily-resting-on my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;#&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;3 looks at its bed, and says in its soft voice, &amp;quot;Something slept and IS SLEEPING in my bed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ri&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u ko&#039;u cikna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) Because of this (it3&#039;s looking and saying), it5 is awake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe cu catlu ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears look at it5&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
seki&#039;u le nu ko&#039;u bajra cliva&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;which-reason-justifies the-event-of it5 runningly-leaving.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cribe noroi ku&#039;a ba viska ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The bears never-intersection-later see it5. This causes #5 to be awake. The bears look at #5, justifying #5&#039;s hasty departure. The bears never again see #5. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;End of text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The End.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The preceding was among other things an exercise in causal constructions. It is worthwhile to examine closely when each causal was used, and how it affected the translation. Some of the choices were marginal (and some indeed were changed during editing of this text).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the insertion of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;sipna&amp;quot; in those sentences that refer to the bed being slept on. You don&#039;t need a bed to sleep, but you do need to be upon something to rest-on it. Place structures are important in Lojban. (Without the &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, sentences translate like &amp;quot;it5 tryingly-sleeps in-some-way-associated-with it2&#039;s bed&amp;quot; which gets the point across, but none to exactly. In pragmatic situations, of course, this version would be correctly understood given the context, (which is why guessing at place structures usually works).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One further change would probably be justified, but was not made. Goldilocks, as the story progresses &amp;quot;troci broda&amp;quot; &amp;quot;tryingly-does-something&amp;quot; in John&#039;s text. This becomes especially cumbersome with the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; construction, because &amp;quot;troci sipna vreta&amp;quot; groups in pairs from the left, giving &amp;quot;tryingly-sleeps kind-of-rests&amp;quot;, losing some symmetry by dividing the &amp;quot;sipna vreta&amp;quot; tanru. To right-group, you need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci ke sipna vreta&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
troci sipna bo vreta &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which identically mean: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tryingly sleepily-rests&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is more easily solved using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;, a word especially valuable with tanru involving &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;, and certain other words that link actions/events with intentions (&#039;intentional verbs&#039; in English). Inserting &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; inverts the tanru, making it translate much more clearly into English (and probably causing increased clarity in the Lojban as well). This gives the equivalent of:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sipna vreta troci&lt;br /&gt;
sleepingly-rests-on attempts&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but with the place structure of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;, the final element of the tanru, determining the interpretation of the trailing sumti (the bed). The essential claim is that of trying, not of sleepingly-resting, which is the norm with intentional statements. Using &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; preserves &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; as the essential claim, while allowing access to the trailing place of &amp;quot;vreta&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
troci co sipna vreta le ckana&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;tries to sleepingly-rest-on the bed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This change was not made in the story because the vaguer tanru is sufficiently understandable given the context, and we&#039;re reluctant to make unnecessary changes in an translator&#039;s work. Besides, it gave the opportunity for this mini-lesson in &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;. (There is a more clear example of &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot; given in the next commentary.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Letter From Sylvia Rutiser to T. Peter Park ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This letter was written about a month before Sylvia&#039;s attempt at the Carter paragraph. The difference is plain: she makes a lot of minor word choice errors because she had only just started studying the cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;o zoi .kuot. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax, VA 22031 .kuot.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;At the locus of (non-Lojban) &amp;quot;2904 Beau Lane&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot;tu&#039;i&amp;quot; is the correct choice, not &amp;quot;di&#039;o&amp;quot;, for location on a letter. Also, to be more correct, &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; should be used on the &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; quote (giving the thing indicated by the address instead of the address), or optionally the new non- Lojban-name marker &amp;quot;la&#039;o&amp;quot;, which has the same grammar as &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; - this then treats the address as the name of a location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;i la&#039;eli so pi&#039;e pa vau coi doi ti.pitr. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;associated-with-date the-referent-of the number 9/1 (9 January), greetings O T.Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here, the &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; isn&#039;t needed, since a date is merely a string of numbers. The &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; greetings here attaches to the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; on the previous line, since no &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; was used between the two lines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la bab. pu cpedu lenu mi cu spuda le do xatra po le xriso nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob requested the event of my responding to your letter which is possessed by the Christ celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; would be more correct, giving the letter &amp;quot;loosely associated with&amp;quot; the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi snime poi puza farlu ku&#039;o ca runme&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;A mass of snow which a-while-ago fell, now melts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would have used &amp;quot;lei&amp;quot;, since she has a specific mass of snow in mind (the stuff on the ground here), but this isn&#039;t wrong, and indeed is a good usage of tense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le solri cu gusni ga&#039;a mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The sun is an illuminator, observed by me. (I can see the sun shining.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji le nuzba po&#039;u lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a pu klama la iutas. fu leko&#039;a karce mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a djica lenu tavla le lobypli sedi&#039;o la iutas. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission of the news which is the-event-of Athelstan (it1) went to Utah via mode his car motivated by the-event-of he desires the- event-of-talking to the Lojban-users at-specific-locus- Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In colloquial English, this is still complicated:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob just told me the news that Athelstan went to Utah in his car in order to talk to some Utah Lojbanists. and the sentence could have been simplified a bit to match that colloquial translation. Let&#039;s break this sentence up so it is more understandable:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o                                                       &lt;br /&gt;
(New paragragh)                                            &lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te benji                                      &lt;br /&gt;
  le nuzba po&#039;u                                            &lt;br /&gt;
     lenu la .atlstan. goi ko&#039;a                            &lt;br /&gt;
          pu klama                                         &lt;br /&gt;
    	     la iutas.                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	     fu leko&#039;a karce                               &lt;br /&gt;
    	     mu&#039;i lenu                                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        ko&#039;a djica                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     lenu tavla                            &lt;br /&gt;
    		       le lobypli                          &lt;br /&gt;
    		       sedi&#039;o la iutas.                    &lt;br /&gt;
The one named Bob just was the origin of transmission      &lt;br /&gt;
  of the news which is                                     &lt;br /&gt;
     the-event-of Athelstan (it1)                          &lt;br /&gt;
          went                                             &lt;br /&gt;
    	     to Utah                                       &lt;br /&gt;
    	     via mode his car                              &lt;br /&gt;
    	     motivated by the-event-of                     &lt;br /&gt;
    	        he desires                                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		     the-event-of-talking                  &lt;br /&gt;
    		       to the Lojban-users                 &lt;br /&gt;
    		       at-specific-locus-Utah.             &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure of news includes a source, so the outer-most selbri using &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t needed (I&#039;ll demonstrate in a moment). It also wasn&#039;t the main claim of the sentence, which was the news itself. In addition, &amp;quot;te benji&amp;quot; was a bad choice for Bob: &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; is a transmission of which this 3rd place is the origin. In this context, Bob is the first place of &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot; - the transmit origin was somewhere in the house in Fairfax VA. A final error is in the places of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Sylvia here has equated the news (le nuzba) with the event, which is really &amp;quot;le se nuzba&amp;quot;, the 2nd place of &amp;quot;nuzba&amp;quot;. Here&#039;s Bob&#039;s version:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la bab. puzi te nuzba lenu la. .atlstan. pu klama la .iutas. fu lera karce semu&#039;i lenu tavla le lobypli pe la .iutas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Bob was-just a-source-of-news of-the-event Athelstan went to-Utah in-his-car, motivated-to the-event-of talking-to the Lojban-users of Utah.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even this non-colloquial translation is only slightly longer than the colloquial English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ca troci lenu cilre lo&#039;i cmavo (New para.) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I now try the event of learning the set of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Using the &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; construction mentioned in &amp;quot;The Three Bears&amp;quot; commentary, this would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi ca troci co cilre lo&#039;i cmavo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I am now a tryer of-type learner-of-the-set-of-cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Either version is acceptable, and I won&#039;t state a preference. Nora prefers Sylvia&#039;s version, since it explicitly uses the place structure of &amp;quot;troci&amp;quot;, and she prefers to avoid tanru in favor of place structure usage whenever it is not excessively burdensome (and &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; is not much longer than &amp;quot;co&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko fraxu mi leni cizra gerna po mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Forgive me for the-amount-of bizarre-grammar closely-associated-with motivationally because of the referent-of-the-last-sentence (the trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colloquially:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please forgive me for the bizarre grammar that results from this (trying to learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;po&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;; we usually use &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; for physical possession or a very close association. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; indicates a much looser association used with most phrases. Also, I doubt that the bizarre grammar was really motivated by the learning. The learning might be a reason, though: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leni cizra gerna pe ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .e&#039;o ledo tcima cu pluka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) (Petition!) Your weather is pleasing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;.a&#039;o&amp;quot; (hope) seems like the more likely attitude, since there is little T.Peter can do about his weather. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko kanro &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Petition!) Be healthy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi la silvian&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Greetings, Sylvia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She had not yet learned &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot;, and greeted instead of parted. A &#039;correct&#039; letter closer conveying her intent is &amp;quot;co&#039;omi&#039;e&amp;quot; (Partings!, I am ...) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A letter from Michael Helsem ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael uses much more complex (and bizarre at times) grammar than Sylvia. He asked for a letter of his to be run through the parser, showing the result. I chose a short one that could be easily cleaned up. (The old parser does not properly handle attitudinals and tense compounds, and some newer cmavo, which Michael uses a lot of; therefore I have to manually add the deleted text to the parse output).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono .i coi do&#039;opezi .i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau .i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u .i ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a .i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei .i ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i .i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ze&#039;i was in Michael&#039;s original, was not grammatical nor particularly necessary, so I deleted it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is Michael&#039;s intended translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is from Michael Helsem a letter dated 18 November 1990. Hi y&#039;all. Here&#039;s some more money. Unfortunately it&#039;s less than I would prefer on account of my forthcoming trip to Mexico. Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? I&#039;ll get in touch with him maybe before I go... Here&#039;s a new palindrome: &amp;quot;Eureka! vagina-near!&amp;quot; - which is a bit more useful than the others of the pattern ...(ahem). Anyway, hope the others come through. Michael. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, intentions are only half the story. Here&#039;s how Bob reads the letter:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
de&#039;e fi la maiky&#039;elsym. xatra de&#039;i li pabiki&#039;ofeiki&#039;osono ({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;de&#039;e [fi (la maiky&#039;elsym.)]&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;xatra [(de&#039;i {li &amp;lt;[pa bi ki&#039;o fei ki&#039;o so no] BOI&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The soon utterances, from Michael Helsem, are-a-letter dated 18,00B,090 (18 million odd in some base greater than 12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&#039;o&amp;quot; is a &#039;real number&#039;, normally meaning &#039;thousands&#039; (depending on the normal place for inserting commas), used in writing large numbers. It can also replace 3 zeroes in large numbers such as business reports. Michael wanted &amp;quot;pi&#039;e&amp;quot;, the non-decimal separator, giving &amp;quot;18/B/90&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; is the non-base-10 digit for 11 (November).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i coi do&#039;opezi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i &amp;lt;coi [do&#039;o (pe {zi KU} GEhU)] DOhU&amp;gt;} POhO) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings, you and others who are a short-distance-in-time away from ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;zi&amp;quot; is used only for distances in time (now); in the past it could be either time or space distance, but this changed when we did the final tense grammar. This isn&#039;t necessarily clear in the published cmavo list, and we will be clarifying it in later versions (see also the sheet of changes enclosed with this issue). &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; is the corresponding space-time distance, but I would prefer &amp;quot;ve&#039;i&amp;quot; (lexeme VEhA) which indicates an interval (you and others in the space around ... [you implied])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;a selmi&#039;a minseldunda vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i e&#039;a) ({selmi&#039;a minseldunda} vau)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Permission!) (Observative) Added-things type-of commander- gifts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No idea about what the attitudinal is, or for that matter, what the sentence means. Given the translation, I might conclude a typo for dinseldunda (money-gifts). This suggests that the money he sent was a donation rather than a voluntary balance contribution (the distinction is important), which is not reflected in the English. (We assumed a balance contribution). &amp;quot;selpleji&amp;quot; (something- paid) would be clearer for a balance contribution, or depending on how you philosophically look at it, something involving &amp;quot;se fatri pagbu&amp;quot; (distributed-part = share)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .u&#039;use&#039;i ri mleca da poi mi ke&#039;a djica ku&#039;o ri&#039;a lemi bazi mextutra nunli&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i u&#039;u se&#039;i] [ri CU (mleca {&amp;lt;[da (poi {&amp;lt;mi ke&#039;a&amp;gt; CU djica} ku&#039;o)] [ri&#039;a (le {mi &amp;lt;[ba zi] [mextutra ***ze&#039;i*** nunli&#039;u]&amp;gt;} KU)]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(I regret - self oriented!) The-last-sumti-it (you-and- others-near-in-time) is less than something1 which I, the something, want, less-than because my soon-future Mexican territory (*short-time-interval) event-of-travelling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would tend to take self-oriented-regret as an apology to himself, but this is to be determined by usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s clear from the translation that the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; was intended to refer to the money-gift, but there is no sumti in that sentence to refer to. &amp;quot;le jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le selyle&#039;i&amp;quot; would have served. Then, of course, Michael is using a comparison, and should therefore have some reference to amounts, so make that &amp;quot;le ni jdini&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le ni selyle&#039;i&amp;quot;. (Two parallel usages for the comparatives seem to be possible, and equally valid: The amount-of-A is-less-than the amount-of-B in-property-C, by-amount-D, and A is-less- than B in-the-amount-of-C, by-amount-D.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael seems to like SOV (subject-object-verb constructions); very non-English but perfectly acceptable. The something1 must be an amount of some kind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; was excellent, and grammatically vital. Without it, the &amp;quot;because&amp;quot; would have been attached to the relative clause bridi, involving &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;; this comes out like &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want because of my trip.&amp;quot;, as compared to his correct &amp;quot;It&#039;s less than the amount I want, because of my trip.&amp;quot; It&#039;s in samples like these that we see how complex language is in general, and thus realize that even a simple language like Lojban requires thought in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what the intent of the &amp;quot;ze&#039;i&amp;quot; was, but any tense inflections must be before the beginning of the selbri, not in the middle of it. Note that &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot; is any self-movement via a route with no origin or destination implied; it does not mean &amp;quot;travel&amp;quot; in the norma English sense. Normally, you will use &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; if you are specifically going somewhere. In this case, however, it worked well, since the tanru modifier, Mexican-territory, is a reasonable brief description of the route involved in his intended trip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems clear here that Michael thought you need an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; before a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;. You don&#039;t, and the parser thinks he had a partial sentence with no body.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi do ckire le selbei judri be la .atlstan. no&#039;u caze&#039;evu ki&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o {&amp;lt;[({mi do} CU {ckire &amp;lt;[(le {selbei &amp;lt;judri [be ({la .atlstan.} {no&#039;u &amp;lt;[(ca ze&#039;e) vu ki&#039;a] KU&amp;gt; GEhU}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU) ] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) I to-you am-grateful for-the transferred address of Athelstan, who incidentally is identical to now- for-some-unspecified-time-interval far-from (Please clarify, I&#039;m confused!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A very strange SOV construction, with two sumti before and one after, not too common in any language that I know of. The relative phrase is perfectly grammatical and even vaguely understandable (I&#039;d have guessed his intent without a translation), but the semantics are all wrong. Michael wanted &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;, for a phrasal construction, and &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;ki&#039;a&amp;quot; to ask the question:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. ne caze&#039;evi ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally is associated with during-an- unspecified-interval-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This could still be asking when as well as where, since there is a time and a location tag in the sumti tcita &amp;quot;caze&#039;evi&amp;quot;, so even more clear would be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-an-unspecified- interval is-at where&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these is quite the same as his English translation, which was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending Athelstan&#039;s address - he&#039;s not still gone is he? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This might best be expressed as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la .atlstan. noi caze&#039;e zvati tu(pevu) xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Athelstan, who incidentally during-for-an-unspecified- interval is-at somewhere else (besides where you and I are) (which-is-a-long-distance) Is this true?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this version, the &amp;quot;pevu&amp;quot; is optional if there was a possiblilty that Michael wanted to differentiate between &amp;quot;still gone in Europe&amp;quot; from perhaps &amp;quot;still gone visiting his family in Baltimore&amp;quot;, which would be a kind of &amp;quot;still gone from your nearby presence&amp;quot;, implied by the greeting vocative. But I wouldn&#039;t be so perverse as to misinterpret him that wildly, would I? (Actually, I might. If you use strange and complex grammatical constructions and semantic usages without mastering the basic ones, I am forced to stretch my mind quite far to try to figure you out.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi ri ba xagdicra la&#039;a pu lemi vuzyseltei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i ({mi ri} {ba &amp;lt;xagdicra la&#039;a [(pu {le &amp;lt;mi vuzyseltei&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I, Athelstan, good-interrupt (Probably!) before my yonder_far-time-interval.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; is correctly Athelstan, though it might not be if some of my various alternates had been used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have no idea what his tanru means, and can&#039;t even guess how to correct it, except that I strongly suspect that he wanted &amp;quot;zabna&amp;quot; (positive connotation) instead of &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (good for ...) For his English, I would use &amp;quot;benji&amp;quot;, or actually &amp;quot;troci co benji&amp;quot;, since he clearly isn&#039;t sure he actually can get in touch with Athelstan before he leaves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final tanru is understandable after I see his English, not before. Why doesn&#039;t he use the plain equivalent of his English: &amp;quot;pu lenu mi cliva&amp;quot;. (I repeat my puzi remark about misintepreting strange usages. The burden of communicating, especially in a letter where there is no possibility of immediate questioning feedback, is TOTALLY on the speaker/writer.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i POhO&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another unneeded prelude to a &amp;quot;ni&#039;o&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[cnino (ke {mitfa&#039;e lerpoi} KEhE)] VAU&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para.) The next utterance is-a newish, identical- reverse, letteral-sequence. (a new palindrome)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent, almost. The following utterance is the entire chunk in the next parse, whereas Michael really wants the first sumti of the next utterance. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e&amp;quot; might work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a tricky problem in anaphora choice. Usage - or the logicians - will have to determine whether quotes in a sumti are part of that sumti. &amp;quot;vo&#039;a&amp;quot; could be misinterpreted to include the non-symmetrical quote marks (lu...li&#039;u) in such a metalinguistic reference as this, and these are not part of the palindrome (la&#039;e vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e, maybe?). Perhaps he might have simply put the palindrome in its own utterance, as he promised, and then refer back to it with &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; in the following sentence (.i is a sentence separator and is NOT part of the utterance).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu lei mordrata leka plikakne su&#039;omei zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {&amp;lt;lu [ua ({vibjbi vau} FAhO)] li&#039;u&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;zmadu [({lei mordrata KU} {le &amp;lt;ka [(plikakne {su&#039;o mei zo&#039;o pe&#039;i cu&#039;i}) VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(Discovery!) vagina-near_thing&amp;quot; is-more-than the-mass-of pattern-others in the property of user-ability at-least- some-cardinality-ness (Humor! I don&#039;t necessarily opine!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The palindrome is neat, grammatical and semantically correct, and presumably is a useful comment for a male on the prowl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, the rest of his sentence isn&#039;t clear at all; even with the help of his English it appears that he combined the x3 and x4 places of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I interpret &amp;quot;lei mordrata&amp;quot; to be &amp;quot;things other than palindromes in form&amp;quot;, whereas he wants &amp;quot;other palindromes&amp;quot;. I would try &amp;quot;mitmo&#039;a drata&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;same-form other-things&amp;quot;). He also may not want a mass. You are more than a mass if you are more than any part of it. (Example: someone of your height is above you when standing on the next higher step of a staircase, even though most of her/his body is below your head.) Masses are funny things that are not semantically-familar to English-speakers; be careful when playing with them. Michael wanted either &amp;quot;ro le drata&amp;quot; (more than each-of the others), or &amp;quot;piro lei drata&amp;quot; (more than all-of the-mass-of others).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Per my above comments on comparison, x1 and x2 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; are not amounts, and therefore x3 should be. This suggests &amp;quot;leni plikakne kei&amp;quot; (the amount of user-ableness), or my preference, &amp;quot;leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei&amp;quot; (the amount of the- typical-something being-innately-capable-of-using). The latter makes it clearer that it is the x2 place of &amp;quot;pilno&amp;quot; (by explicitly specifying the x1 as something else) that specifies where the palindrome goes in the leni clause. (Without clarifying, a perverse reader might think this means &amp;quot;the palindrome is more able to use something than other palindromes&amp;quot;, which is mind-bogglingly implausible as an interpretation - but certainly within bounds for Michael).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;su&#039;omei&amp;quot; is not a sumti, and if it were, would need a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; on the end of the x3 of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; (as in my version in the last paragraph) to not be part of the amount. From Michael&#039;s English, &amp;quot;li su&#039;o&amp;quot; as x4 would convey his meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I presume the attitudinals on the end belong on the whole utterance. Where they are, they apply only to the final sumti. In Lojban, you either need to put the attitudinal on the front of the sentence (in this case perhaps unfortunately flagging the humor before making the joke), or putting it on an explicit &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; at the end of the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With all these comments, my version of the last two sentences would thus read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o vo&#039;a pe di&#039;e cnino ke mitfa&#039;e lerpoi. .i lu .ua vibjbi vau li&#039;u zmadu piro lei mitmo&#039;a drata leni zu&#039;i ka&#039;e pilno kei li su&#039;o vau zo&#039;ope&#039;icu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(New para. The-first-sumti pertaining-to the-next- utterance is-a new, same-reverse letter-sequence. &amp;quot;(Discovery!) Vagina-near-thing&amp;quot; is-more-than all-of the same-form other-things in-amount-of the-typical being- innately-able-to use (it) by-amount the-number at-least- some (Humor!) (I not-necessarily-opine!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i to&#039;u .a&#039;o sarji balvi snada vau mi&#039;e maikl.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i to&#039;u a&#039;o) ({&amp;lt;sarji balvi&amp;gt; snada} {vau &amp;lt;mi&#039;e maikl. DOhU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;In brief, (I hope!) (Observative) Supporter-ly-future success, I am Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Definitely brief. I prefer &amp;quot;ba sarji snada&amp;quot;, which is even briefer. Why clutter up a tanru with a tense that can be misinterpreted, when the tense can go in front and be clear?.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because Michael did not separate the &amp;quot;mi&#039;e&amp;quot; from the preceding with an &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;, it attaches to the vau, in effect making this entire sentence his closing salutation. This is not apparent in his English, but the sentiments seem appropriate to a salutation. Ironically then, his salutation is NOT brief, at least compared to what most others write.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(.i .i&#039;acai I give Michael a hard time in these analyses, but at least he keeps trying, and indeed is improving. Perhaps Michael can forgive me for not doing this kind of analysis on his ever-accumulating poetry (must be over 50 poems so far), and his several long letters (this was only a 5&amp;quot;x8&amp;quot; handwritten sheet, with interlinear translation - Michael has written several-page letters typewritten, entirely in Lojban). Keep it up, Michael (only .e&#039;ocai try some less creative constructions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Next Issue ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will be much shorter than this one, at least if we want to see a textbook this century. But I&#039;ll try to have it out well before LogFest, making a shorter-than- three-months cycle between issues. I would like to have some of your attempts at the translation project paragraphs (or tanru or sentences) before then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We expect to have more information on our new software products and their prices, and who knows, perhaps a better estimate on the textbook date.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The expected highlight will be John Cowan&#039;s &amp;quot;selma&#039;o catalog&amp;quot;, a complete listing of each of the selma&#039;o (lexemes/gramemes) with an explanation of how each is used, and LOTS of examples. This will not only be an important addition to the tools available to you as Lojban learners, it will also be a part of the Lojban dictionary - the first part of that work to be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John has given us a draft already - it will probably be longer than the rest of the issue. The text is being extensively reviewed by several people, and even more examples will be added before it is done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== NEWS RELEASE ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;8 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Contact: Robert LeChevalier (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Trademark Office Rules &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; Generic ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The U. S. Patent and Trademark Office Appeals Board ruled Tuesday that the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot;) is generic. The Board also ordered cancellation of a trademark registration for &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; held by The Loglan Institute, Inc. of Florida. The summary judgement ruling is a major victory for The Logical Language Group, Inc., a non-profit research group in Fairfax, Virginia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Basis for the Dispute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan is an artificial language started in 1955 by Dr. James Cooke Brown. After a June 1960 Scientific American article, the language attracted widespread interest among linguists, computer scientists, and the international language movement. Volunteers aided Brown as work on the language continued into the 1980&#039;s. Slow progress and internal disputes caused a steady fall-off of support. This trend grew when Brown claimed copyright on the language for himself and his institute.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Major supporters of Loglan founded the Logical Language Group (LLG) in 1987 to reverse Loglan&#039;s declining support. Separate from Brown, LLG finished a public domain version of Loglan and promoted its use. The LLG version is called Lojban, based on the word for &amp;quot;logical language&amp;quot; in that version of the language. Facing a loss of control over the language, Brown registered a trademark in &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; in early 1988. The trademark and copyright claims restricted the rights of long-time workers and supporters of Loglan. Many felt the claims a betrayal of earlier promises. A legal battle followed, leading to the present decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of Loglan/Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban is a written and spoken human language. Its original purpose was research in language and culture. Loglan/Lojban is simple and logical, and has an unambiguous grammar. Thus, computer scientists view Loglan/ Lojban as a likely tool for artificial intelligence research and human-computer communications. Educators believe Loglan/Lojban can be an effective tool in foreign language education. As an artificial language, Loglan/Lojban also attracts followers of the international language movement. This movement seeks a culture-free alternative to languages such as English, and promotes international communication and world peace. The Logical Language Group supports these uses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People have used Lojban in conversation for over a year; the language was completed in August 1990. Over 100 people are actively studying the language. Hundreds more await a Lojban textbook, expected later in 1991. These people live all over the world, with concentrations in Washington DC, Boston, New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Volunteers lead classes and study groups in these and other cities. LLG sells teaching materials, computer programs, and other materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Importance of the Trademark Victory ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The trademark dispute has constrained LLG in promoting the language. Millions of readers are familiar with the name &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot; from magazine articles and science fiction novels. Legal threats from Brown intimidated many people from committing their full support. The ruling frees these people to support Loglan/Lojban without fear of reprisal. The decision also will encourage computer researchers to invest time and money in Loglan/Lojban. Finally, this decision removes a major obstacle to resolving the underlying disputes and reuniting the Loglan effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Changes to the Published cmavo Lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;as of 25 February 1991&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Some changes are contingent on approval of John Cowan&#039;s proposed grammar baseline changes.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.uibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;smiley face&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;u	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;lack/need&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;ucu&#039;i  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;presence/satisfaction&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
be&#039;unai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;lack/need - presence/satisfaction - satiation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;o	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
bu&#039;u	  (GOhA)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ce&#039;i	  (MOI)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	meaning	changes	to &#039;percent&#039; as	a number; works	with si&#039;e to form percentages of&lt;br /&gt;
		  the MOI variety&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
denpa bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do&#039;e	  (DOhE)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
du	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to GOhA&lt;br /&gt;
tedu&#039;o	  (BAI*)  - djuno place	structure change; assign with meaning &amp;quot;under epistemology ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fa&#039;anai	  (FAhA*) - meaning corrected to &amp;quot;not towards point&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
fau	  (BAI)	- fasnu	place structure	change gives minor meaning change&lt;br /&gt;
foi	  (FOI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;end composite letteral&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
gau	  (BAI)	- meaning change due to	place structure	change of gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
		  &amp;quot;with	actor/agent ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
gaunai	  (BAI*)  - &amp;quot;with passive ...&amp;quot; case tag&lt;br /&gt;
ge&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Greek alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Cyrillic to	ru&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
je&#039;o	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BY;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;Hebrew alphabet shift&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
		  was jo&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
jo&#039;o	  (BY)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;Arabic alphabet shift&amp;quot;; Hebrew to je&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
joibu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;&amp;amp;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ka&#039;o	  (PA)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;imaginary i&amp;quot;; from lu&#039;o;	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;o	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to ZOI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;the foreign named&amp;quot;; foreign spelling permitted within&lt;br /&gt;
		  quotes&lt;br /&gt;
lau	  (LAU)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;punctuation mark/special symbol&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
lo&#039;a	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Lojban/Roman alphabet shift&amp;quot;; replaces nei with meaning clarification; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;a	  (UI)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the members/components of ...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to&lt;br /&gt;
		  sa&#039;enai&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- free;	old meaning moved to sa&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
lu&#039;o	  (PA)	- selma&#039;o change to LUhI; assign with meaning &amp;quot;the mass	with components	...&amp;quot;; old meaning moved	to ka&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
me&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;less than&amp;quot;	as a digit&lt;br /&gt;
meryru&#039;u bu	(BY*)	 - assign with meaning &amp;quot;$&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;o	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;adjacent/touching&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
ne&#039;u	  (FAhA)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;directly away from point&amp;quot;; was	UNK&lt;br /&gt;
nei	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
re&#039;o	  (REhO)  - free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
ri&#039;i	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to BAI; assign	with meaning &amp;quot;happens to ...; experienced by ...&amp;quot;; lifri modal&lt;br /&gt;
ru&#039;o	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;Cyrillic	alphabet shift&amp;quot;; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sa&#039;e	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to UI;	assign with meaning &amp;quot;precisely - loosely&amp;quot;; old meaning moved to	se&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;a	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;self-sufficiency&amp;quot;; was UNK; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency - dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;anai	  (UI*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;dependence&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;self-sufficiency -	dependence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;e	  (BY)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;IPA alphabet shift&amp;quot;; from sa&#039;e; was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
se&#039;o	  (UI)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;I know by internal experience&amp;quot; (dream, divine revelation, etc.);	was UNK&lt;br /&gt;
sefau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
segau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
tegau	  (BAI*)  - freed by place structure change to gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
seri&#039;i	  (BAI*)  - assign with	meaning	&amp;quot;experiencing ...&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
si&#039;e	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to MOI, with meaning x1 is a n-portion	of x2, where n is a number&lt;br /&gt;
slaka bu  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;,&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
tau	  (BY)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
te&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
tei	  (TEI)	- meaning change to &amp;quot;composite lerfu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
ti&#039;o	  (TIhO)  - selma&#039;o change to SEI&lt;br /&gt;
to&#039;o	  (BY)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;a	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;e	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
vu&#039;o	  (DU)	- free (UNK)&lt;br /&gt;
.ybu	  (BY*)	- free;	meaning	assigned to &amp;quot;.y&#039;ybu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.y&#039;ybu	  (BY*)	- assign with meaning &amp;quot;y&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
za&#039;u	  (DU)	- selma&#039;o change to PA;	now &amp;quot;greater than&amp;quot; as a	digit&lt;br /&gt;
zai	  (ZAI)	- selma&#039;o change to LAU&lt;br /&gt;
zi, za,	zu	(ZA)	 - clarify that	these are scalar distances in time only, and correspond	to lexeme VA for space-&lt;br /&gt;
		  time.	 Use ZEHA and VEhA for time and	space-time intervals&lt;br /&gt;
net 9 assigned from UNK; 11 freed to UNK&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_13_moi&amp;diff=124084</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_13_moi&amp;diff=124084"/>
		<updated>2020-08-15T04:09:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990-1, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 13 - August 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
Permission granted to copy, without charge to recipient, when for purpose of promotion of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban Grammar Baselined&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmavo list Completed&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside, and More.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;, and informing the community about logical languages in general. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 360. We now have over 680 people on our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: References to &#039;Loglan&#039; in this text, unless specifically noted, do not relate to the &#039;trademark&#039; claimed by The Loglan Institute, Inc., or to products identified by that &#039;trademark&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue marks major milestones, but reports our serious financial situation. The issue was delayed almost a month because we didn&#039;t have enough money to pay for it. This issue includes the new grammar baseline and the cmavo list as separate enclosures to an over-50 page issue. However, if our finances do not improve significantly, future issues will be much shorter. The choice is up to all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier starts a regular &#039;column&#039; written directly in Lojban, and without translation. As of this issue, all the materials needed to read Lojban text have been distributed - its time to set an example of using the language. We also include Lojban writings from Michael Helsem, who has written some 40 poems in Lojban, and from Athelstan and John Cowan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our regular news section discusses results from LogFest 90, an update on the textbook plans, and our financial woes. We also include two items from the editor of the Esperanto League for North America newsletter, Don Harlow, a response to JL11&#039;s Esperanto article and an article by Don on artificial languages, reprinted from his newsletter with permission. We have some writings from Andy Hilgartner, outlining his several decades of General Semantics research that have recently been affected by his contact with Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, LogFest attendees chose to have the community vote on the logo and another issue. Please respond by 20 October. If you are level 3, or have used LogFlash, we are also asking you to report on where you are at in learning the language by then. There will be another weekend get-together at Bob and Nora&#039;s place that weekend and everyone is invited. Let us know you are coming.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest Results - Lojban Grammar Baselined, gismu List Baseline Changes  --3&lt;br /&gt;
  cmavo	Dictionary Progress				       --8&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Language Definition Status Summary			      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  Products Status (including Textbook Update)		      --13&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News - Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans		      --15&lt;br /&gt;
  News From the	Institute				      --16&lt;br /&gt;
JL11 Esperanto Discussion - A Response from Don	Harlow	      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Masters	of Tongue Fu, by Don Harlow			      --24&lt;br /&gt;
Two Papers by Andy Hilgartner				      --29&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses			      --32&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska					      --40&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Baselined Machine Grammar,	Abbreviated cmavo List,	Ballot/Questionnaire&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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If you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at: lojbab@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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Join the Lojban news-group. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Send your mailing address to: lojban-list-request@snark.thyrsus.com &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Send traffic for the news-group to: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com&lt;br /&gt;
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Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
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Compuserve subscribers can participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period: nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. For example, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly number of you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he is usually addressed as &#039;pc&#039; by the community.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Jim Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;The Institute&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan, which we call &#039;Institute Loglan&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
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=== LogFest Results ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban Grammar Baselined - By consensus, the attendees at LogFest approved a preliminary baseline of the Lojban grammar, subject to minor corrections and typos that were expected to show up before publishing in this issue. (An awful lot of work was accomplished in the last two weeks before LogFest, and the copies printed for LogFest were rather hurriedly prepared.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A final baseline is expected in about 6-9 months, after the textbook is completed. However, given the extremely slow rate of change to the grammar up until now, few if any substantive changes are expected before the final baseline. All major subsections of the grammar have now been examined at least twice, and Bob was able to give lectures on the attitudinal, tense/modal, negation, MEX, and lerfu systems at LogFest with minimal preparation, demonstrating that these new developments are teachable.&lt;br /&gt;
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The grammar has of course been verified through usage, with translations and original materials in a variety of styles and on a variety of subjects, as well as in conversation. The design has proven solid and robust.&lt;br /&gt;
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The grammar still requires formal usage testing (as opposed to disambiguity testing with the computer tool &#039;YACC&#039;), and no one has stepped forward to update the parser to the new grammar. In lieu of this, we will be updating the random sentence generator to the new grammar, and examining its outputs manually. We also will be using the older parser to examine Michael Helsem&#039;s poetry and any other Lojban text that is submitted during the preliminary baseline period, and will ensure that discrepancies are accounted for by known changes to the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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A copy of the approved grammar is included with this issue. The grammar is a &#039;machine&#039; grammar, and designed primarily for computer use. However, people can understand and use it, too, with explanation. We&#039;ve provided such an explanation as front matter for the grammar copy, and would appreciate comments, especially from non-computer people, as to its understandability and usefulness.&lt;br /&gt;
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Several people are working on condensed versions of the grammar that are more understandable to everyday people. These versions, written in a format called &#039;Extended BNF&#039; are only two to three pages long. The primary weakness of E-BNF grammars is that they cannot be verified by YACC; we therefore want to ensure that the versions are thoroughly checked before publishing them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone interested in working on the E-BNF effort should contact us. John Cowan and Carl Burke are leading the effort, and will respond to you. Include a Compuserve or Usenet/Internet/ Bitnet address if you have one, and want to communicate via net.&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu List Baseline Changes - The list of proposed new gismu swelled just before LogFest from the list presented in the last JL issue, making for a lively, if long, session at LogFest devoted to going over the proposals. About 3/4 of the changes were adopted, with a couple of issues left up in the air for further comment from the community.&lt;br /&gt;
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Almost all of the changes are additions to the list of gismu, the type of change having least impact on someone learning the language. There was one word change accepted, the change from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; discussed in the last issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are three changes to keywords for existing gismu, specifically the gismu for some of our basic Lojban language concepts (&amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;); these word changes are not changes to the meaning of the gismu, but are instead corrections to eliminate misconceptions. The existing keywords are the words that Jim Brown used in his writings for the concepts, and have historically been criticized as being &#039;the wrong word&#039;. We&#039;ve stuck with them for tradition, but reactions from the community when the proposals were circulated on the computer network indicated that the keywords were causing confusion and that it was time for a change.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is, of course, that these concepts are not commonly used in English, and no English word accurately reflects their meaning. LogFest came up with the phrase &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot; to serve for gismu, but was unable to agree on new phrases for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;. Some of the proposals are described below. For purposes of discussion at LogFest, we limited keyword proposals to 15 characters or less, the existing LogFlash limit. Since we are increasing that limit to 20 characters to support the cmavo keywords, some of you may be able to devise clearer phrases than we did at LogFest; for example, some of Bob&#039;s preferences for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;modification pair&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;modified concept&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;modified relation&amp;quot;, are now permitted. We need your suggestions within the next month or two.&lt;br /&gt;
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For the new words that have been approved, and for the open issues that have obvious new word implications, we have already started the word-making process. For the first time, we are able to use a native speaker for the primary research in a non-English source language. Vijay Vaidyanathan of Albany NY, a native Tamil speaker who is fluent in Hindi (and whose wife is a native Hindi speaker) is providing the original Hindi research. Mimi Herrmann, a DC-area language aficionado, is researching the Arabic words. We turned to Russian translator Gary Burgess for aid in Russian, and Bob did the other three languages using his shelf of dictionaries. When all of the contributors get finished, hopefully in a few weeks, Bob&#039;s new 386 computer should make short work of building the possible words, and we&#039;ll be able to tell you the results next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban gismu are made by searching for sound patterns that most match the words from the source languages. A score, called a recognition score, is calculated based on weighted averages using the speaker population for each source language. The weighting system for language populations takes the number of native speakers and adds half of the number of second language speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob researched how the last several years affected the language population weights. We had expected a significant growth in speakers of other languages, but was surprised to find that English has receded, and rather rapidly. While it is still the language of choice in international business and in science, there are now considered to be fewer speakers of the language worldwide than there were just a few years ago. If we use the new data in making the gismu, English drops to 3rd place well behind Hindi, and is being threatened by Spanish.&lt;br /&gt;
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The most striking cause of this change is in India. When India first became independent in 1948, English was often the language of choice as a lingua franca for communication between speakers of the several hundred different languages spoken in India (there were some 15 languages cited as &#039;official&#039; at the time of independence). Now, however, only English and Hindi are considered &#039;official&#039;, and there is a decided bent towards Hindi. There are some 230 million native Hindi speakers (and perhaps another 60 million Urdu speakers - Urdu is considered by linguists to be the same language as Hindi, but is written in Arabic script). This is about the same number of native speakers as English has world-wide. In second language speakers, the real difference shows up. Hindi is the lingua franca of around 400 million speakers in India, and this number is rapidly increasing under the Indian literacy program. English is now spoken by only 21 million Indians, only 2% of the population.&lt;br /&gt;
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English is also receding in Africa, although not as dramatically.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Russian numbers have also changed, as greater recognition has been placed on the non-Russian nationalities in the Soviet Union.&lt;br /&gt;
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The numbers are confirmed in another source, a survey description of the world&#039;s languages edited by B. Comrie, an expert on language universals. The section on English estimates the number of speakers as 350 million, whereas quotes as high as a billion were easy to find when we started surveying languages in 1987 before the initial gismu-making effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are the numbers of speakers in millions derived from the 1990 Britannica Book of the Year. The final column gives the weights normalized to 100. We&#039;ve given numbers for the next two languages behind Arabic, which are rapidly gaining. However, we are unlikely to replace Arabic with Bengali until the numbers are solidly in its favor, since Bengali is Indo-European and confined almost entirely to two countries.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Language  Native 2nd  Net	1990  1987                     &lt;br /&gt;
    		 Score	 Wt.   Wt.                     &lt;br /&gt;
Chinese    754M  339M 923M	35.5  33.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
Hindi      288M  478M 528M	20.5  16.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
English    299M  228M 413M	16    18                       &lt;br /&gt;
Spanish    300M   38M 319M	12    12.5                     &lt;br /&gt;
Russian    170M  118M 229M	 9    12                       &lt;br /&gt;
Arabic     181M   22M 192M	 7    7.5                      &lt;br /&gt;
Bengali    176M   26M 189M	 -                             &lt;br /&gt;
Portuguese 156M   12M 161M	 -                             &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will experiment with both sets of weights in making the 20 new gismu to be constructed; there is no policy on whether to update weights periodically, since we don&#039;t anticipate making many more gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, here is the summary of decisions made by the LogFest attendees:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following proposals were approved with little controversy:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Change &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; for rafsi considerations;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;, change keyword for &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;full day&amp;quot;?, &amp;quot;24hr day&amp;quot;?);&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;, as distinct from &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;, to parallel with &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;citrus&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cabbage&amp;quot;, to include broccoli, cauliflower, and perhaps lettuce;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;hemp&amp;quot;, to include natural rope, burlap, marijuana, and hashish;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;protein&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;buckwheat&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;cassava&amp;quot;, to include taro and yam, and other starchy roots (not tubers);&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;sorghum&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;magenta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cyan&amp;quot; as the missing two subtractive primary colors;&lt;br /&gt;
# Change the keyword of &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;root word&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;North America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot;, referring to the U.S.;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;South America&amp;quot;, the continent, as distinct from &amp;quot;xispo&amp;quot;, referring to Latin America;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;Antarctica&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following proposals were added with considerable debate and discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;glimmering&amp;quot; to cover the concepts of morning and evening twilight, as well as the phenomena of &amp;quot;astronomical terminator&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;penumbra&amp;quot;; the poetic usefulness and the astronomical extension of the concept led to passage; &lt;br /&gt;
## &amp;quot;dawn&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;morning twilight&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evening twilight&amp;quot; were voted down.&lt;br /&gt;
# Define &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evening&amp;quot; symmetrically; &lt;br /&gt;
## The specific symmetry required much debate; consensus was finally built around a culture-dependent definition, wherein morning is the time between sleep and work, and evening is the time between work and sleep, according to the cultural norm. In a tanru this could be modified to a personal norm.&lt;br /&gt;
# In a discussion of &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; as an opposite of &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot;, initial sentiment for adding it was weak; &lt;br /&gt;
## It was noticed that the existing place structure of increase was transitive; it was proposed that by changing the place structure to the intransitive &amp;quot;x1 increases in property x2 by amount x3&amp;quot;, an opposite gismu for &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; would be better justified. Without the change, the semantic difference from &amp;quot;adjust&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;add&amp;quot; was felt to be too small. &lt;br /&gt;
## The vote to add &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; in parallel to the new meaning of &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot; was then successful. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following changes were voted down:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;tears&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot;, the opposite of &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;diffuse&amp;quot;, the opposite of &amp;quot;concentrated&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot;, (after discussion, it was decided that &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot; is the opposite of &amp;quot;excess&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot; as middle ground. The opposite of &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot; then, encompasses both excess or deficient;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add &amp;quot;alfalfa&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# Add a common term for the Western Hemisphere continents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following are still open issues:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. The definition of &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot; was not discussed; we forgot. The issue was based on our learning that different cultures include/exclude the hand and the shoulder from the concept of &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot;. Tentatively, we will define an &amp;quot;arm&amp;quot; as a non-supporting limb, without specifically excluding or including the extremity.&lt;br /&gt;
2. It was decided to change the keywords for &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;. Unfortunately, there has been no consensus on what to change them to. The clear sense is to avoid linguistic jargon and words that have multiple meanings in English such as &amp;quot;compound&amp;quot;. There is some sentiment for keywords that show a parallelism in definitions of the two concepts, though alternatively the parallelism could be made clear in the extended definition. The proposed choices, in roughly chronological order are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tanru		     lujvo                               &lt;br /&gt;
open compoundclosed compound                               &lt;br /&gt;
relation phraseaffix compound                              &lt;br /&gt;
relation phraserelation compound                           &lt;br /&gt;
word cluster    cluster word                               &lt;br /&gt;
word cluster   affix cluster                               &lt;br /&gt;
word grouping affix grouping                               &lt;br /&gt;
grouped words  affix word(s)                               &lt;br /&gt;
modified phrasemodified word                               &lt;br /&gt;
phrase relationaffix relation                              &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As noted earlier, some slightly longer keywords can be considered, since we have to create a version of LogFlash supporting the 20-character keywords for cmavo data. Bob is adding the following based on this new option:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
modification pairmodification word&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The familial relationships never quite seem to satisfy. It was agreed to add &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; to the definitions of &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot;. Later it was suggested that we retain some unsatisfactory holes and combinations, which are of uncertain importance. The fact that American culture is shifting away from traditional family structures makes it unlikely that we (who are almost all Americans) can decide on a culturally neutral solution. The choices are then to be maximally inclusive of the possible relationships, or to pare the list in ways that ignore American sensibilities. The general preference seems to be for the former. Thus, we can make the following matrix:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gender-neutral	Male	 Female	  Gender-neutral	   &lt;br /&gt;
but genetic			 not-necessarily-          &lt;br /&gt;
				     genetic		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
panzi		bersa	  tixnu	      se rirni		   &lt;br /&gt;
offspring	son	  daughter    reared		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
				      verba		   &lt;br /&gt;
				      child		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
				      cifnu		   &lt;br /&gt;
				      infant		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
		bruna	   mensi      tunba		   &lt;br /&gt;
		brother	   sister     sibling		   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
se panzi	patfu	   mamta      rirni		   &lt;br /&gt;
   ?		father	   mother     rearer		   &lt;br /&gt;
		sire	   dam				   &lt;br /&gt;
							   &lt;br /&gt;
se jbena						   &lt;br /&gt;
mother/father						   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that as currently defined, &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot; are defined biologically, whereas their counterparts (except &amp;quot;se jbena&amp;quot;) need not be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An obvious suggestion is to make &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mamta&amp;quot; non-biological. However, it can be argued that with animal breeding and genetics, and in some less transitional cultures, the biological parents have a uniquely important role enough to be considered &#039;primitive&#039;. If so, the tanru &amp;quot;mamta se panzi&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;patfu se panzi&amp;quot; may be too long to be satisfactory. (We asked Vijay, our Hindi/Tamil expert, though, and at least for human parents, the biological aspect is secondary to the social relationship - non-biological parents are called by the same &#039;mother&#039; and &#039;father&#039; terms as biological parents. If this is the case, the longer tanru for specifying biological parents may be acceptable.) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other options: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a. Change &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; to be its inverse, making &amp;quot;se panzi&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;offspring&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;b. Add a different gismu to be the inverse of &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot;, with a keyword something like &amp;quot;engender&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;c. Add two gismu to specifically represent the genetic relationships &amp;quot;sire&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;dam&amp;quot; as distinct from the social terms &amp;quot;mother&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;father&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Other options are possible. Note also that &amp;quot;rirni&amp;quot; is not quite the same as &amp;quot;mother/father&amp;quot;, so we may need another genderless general term here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we are making up gismu for &amp;quot;engender&amp;quot; as one of the 20 words. The actual word that results may affect the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to the above, there is also the question of the extended family, which we have long ignored. We can be very specific about &amp;quot;mother-mother&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;father-sister&amp;quot;, and other extended family relationships, but we cannot be general. Most cultures either use very general terms or very specific ones (Hindi and Chinese distinguish between a father&#039;s older brother and younger brother as different word-concepts); in American culture, of course, divorce and remarriage is causing extended family relationships to become so complex that specific terms will not suffice. For discussion purposes then, Bob is proposing (and making):&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;a. &amp;quot;elder/ancestor&amp;quot; for family members of generations preceding the parents (including non-direct line, the relationship is more social/ethnic than biological). Gender would be added via tanru, as would explicit biological lineage (or a place could be used for specifying lineage, with specific names used in alternation with properties of the lineage of relation). The conversion would give &amp;quot;descendant&amp;quot; as well as &amp;quot;grandkids&amp;quot; in the broadest sense. This was independently proposed by John Cowan as &amp;quot;x1 is an ancestor of x2 of degree x3&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;b. &amp;quot;aunt/uncle/godparent&amp;quot; for non-lineal (socio-ethnic) family members of the parental generation. The conversion would give &amp;quot;niece/ nephew&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;c. &amp;quot;cousin&amp;quot; for non-immediate (socio-ethnic) family members of the same generation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The generalized family relationship is still expressed by &amp;quot;lanzu&amp;quot;, which can be modified via tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Related Discussion - Days of the week were dis-cussed prior to the gismu baseline discussion, and it was decided to add color-and continent-based names as alternatives to the number based names that have been standard (it was at this point that we realized that we were missing 3 of the 7 continents). In addition, the number based names will be set to run from 0 to 7, with Sunday serving as both 0 and 7, depending on speaker preference and cultural orientation.&lt;br /&gt;
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John Cowan expressed great skepticism that any alternate system would catch on. They seem too much like crackpot &#039;calendar reform&#039; efforts, and also aren&#039;t well supported in numerical date representations. He also noted that not all cultures have a 7-day week. The generic concept of a week is the time between successive market days, which ranges from 4 to 9 days in agrarian non-Western cultures. He thus suggested that &amp;quot;jeftu&amp;quot; add a place to indicate the culture (it was later realized that a &#039;standard&#039; is already in the place structure). He is using days of the week based on the International names of the classically known heavenly bodies, thus allowing him to parallel Romance languages that did likewise. (English and the Germanic languages loan-translated the Roman gods used in planet names to the corresponding gods&#039; names from German mythology.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan notes that in Israel, the days are number-named from 1st-day to 6th-day, followed by the Sabbath; this is similar to our adopted system.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other LogFest Results - LogFest only had about 18 attendees, but they were a truly exceptional crowd that demonstrated by their commitment to the language that Loglan/Lojban is going to continue to grow and prosper. More than half were from out of town; three graduates of the Blacksburg class came. Almost all were level 3 active language students; thus we never really got to exercise our plans to support activities for newcomers at the same time as a main track.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, a lot of key people we thought were going to come didn&#039;t. For example, Dr. Yorke, scheduled to lead a discussion of his proposal (printed in JL12), didn&#039;t make it, but won an award for the best excuse ever for not coming to LogFest. He called Friday evening to tell us that his house was surrounded by fire trucks. (The lengths people will go to avoid coming! Luckily, the fire was not too serious.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We discussed Dr. Yorke&#039;s proposal anyway. There was little support - the people working on Lojban are interested in a full language, not a hybrid form. la lojbangirz. thus will not change its goals and plans to match his ideas, although we are willing to support and encourage anyone who wants to develop the idea further and give it a proper test. Most participants, though, said that a hybrid LogEnglish might as well use straight English words for the predicates. The loss of audiovisual isomorphism is not significant until someone comes up with a speech recognizer. It was also suggested, and we will consider, using such a hybrid form in teaching materials for beginners, so that they do not need to master the vocabulary to get a start on the unique grammar features of Lojban. This will not be used for the initial textbook, however. If someone wants to try this technique in teaching a class, let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
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Saturday was primarily devoted to technical presentations on the major areas of the grammar that had been reviewed for the baseline. Athelstan gave his mini-lesson during one gap in this, and we had a short period of Lojban conversation during another gap (Bob was able to make do without his word lists. But especially gratifying was that several others participated, including some who had not been part of a class.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We also discussed John Hodges&#039; proposals on time and typography. Bob&#039;s counter-proposals on these issues were adopted, although with no change to the period before the &amp;quot;i&amp;quot; at the beginning of the sentence (see JL12 for both the original proposals and the counters). All typography symbols are optional, and do not affect grammar or pronunciation - symbols of punctuation are used IN ADDITION to the Lojban punctuation words. We won&#039;t promise to use them in most JL writings. We type Lojban text slowly enough now, without trying to master some new conventions. However, we will accept and print Lojban text that uses the optional conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Annual Member&#039;s Meeting - On Sunday was the annual meeting of Members of la lojbangirz., which ran over as usual, ending rather hurriedly at 3pm after 5 hours of most lively discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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While everyone in the community is considered a member of la lojbangirz., we must maintain a formal membership for election of Board members, changes to Bylaws, and as it turns out, whatever else the membership decides to act on. We added 4 new formal members, making a total of 12.&lt;br /&gt;
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One major item of business was adoption of the grammar baseline, and this was pro forma, almost a letdown after the intensity of the previous day&#039;s work. We also moved LogFest back a week, effective in 1991. Next year it will be on the weekend of June 23, 1991. Make your plans early.&lt;br /&gt;
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If June is a bad time of year for you, there may be another chance. A second get-together will be held this fall at Bob and Nora&#039;s house (so save your maps to LogFest), tentatively the weekend of October 20-21. Because the next JL issue will come out too close to then to allow meaningful publicity, this is your only notice. This year&#039;s &#039;Log-Fair&#039; will be an experiment that will be repeated if there is interest. This year&#039;s meeting may also serve as a textbook review party, if Bob has gotten sufficient done to justify this.&lt;br /&gt;
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Electronic mail distribution of our materials was also discussed in the meeting, and a committee was formed to devise a policy on what things will be released in this form. We will use the Planned Languages File Server (discussed in JL12), as well as similar forums such as the Compuserve Foreign Languages Forum, as official repositories. All electronic media distributions will have some type of header giving its status as a draft or baseline, &#039;copyleft&#039; (similar to Free Software Foundation policies) or public domain status or full copyright if appropriate. In general, our books and major publications that we need to get income from to survive will be protected - unless events transpire to eliminate need for that income. All material that defines the language will be public domain, along with some other things like the brochure that we want widely distributed. Most of our stuff will be &#039;copyleft&#039;, allowing distribution without charge as long as various notices attached are retained.&lt;br /&gt;
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One fear of public domain status before the language has a solid community was that there is no way that electronic media readers can be certain that they have gotten the &#039;real thing&#039;; someone could modify the official documents, attach any labels we put on to certify &#039;officialness&#039;, and redistribute them. The &#039;correct&#039; solution lies in trademark law, but we are reluctant to go in that direction given our disputes with the Institute. Since we are committed to a public domain language, we will probably just say that if you want to be absolutely certain you have the latest and greatest version of something, you will have to order it from la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
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The electronic media committee was also charged with developing an introductory lesson for distribution on electronic (and paper) media. This will be tied in with our policy on who gets materials without paying for them (see Finances below). The lesson may have some similarity to the Esperanto postal mail course. Athelstan has prepared a draft mini-lesson for this purpose, which is being tried by a few people. The mini-lesson will also partially replace the current, rather unsatisfactory, Overview that we send to new people.&lt;br /&gt;
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A second committee was charged with developing a plan to restore our fiscal integrity. The details will be discussed in the next section.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most surprising about these two committees is that the membership insisted that Bob not be actively involved. &amp;quot;These are NOT Bob jobs!&amp;quot; said Karen Stein. The membership seemed concerned that Bob has been spread too thin, and these committees could handle things without his active involvement. So all of the preceding is subject to change by the committees; your Editor doesn&#039;t know much more than you beyond what has been said. The formal membership will hopefully have a report from each committee in August, in order to allow decisions before Athelstan leaves for Europe (he is on both committees).&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob comments: It is gratifying that the members feel enough commitment to volunteer significantly firmly to relieve me of what has become too much responsibility. This is your language, not mine. Finally, a group of people is acting like they believe me, and acting like it is THEIR language, and taking the responsibility needed to make it succeed.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== cmavo Dictionary Progress ===&lt;br /&gt;
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John Cowan has assumed responsibility for producing a draft version of the cmavo portion of the dictionary, taking over from earlier work done by Jeff Taylor. His first product for us is the abbreviated definition cmavo list included in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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John has proven extremely productive in the last few weeks, helping with the grammar baseline and the E-BNF effort, compiling the cmavo index included with this issue, and volunteering for major work responsibilities on the dictionary, while contributing valuable suggestions on a variety of other topics. He also has started writing a &#039;daily&#039; Lojban journal, believed to be a first in that category (although Jim Carter reported doing likewise with an earlier version of the language in the early 1980&#039;s). John first learned about Lojban only a couple of months ago, thus showing how quickly a motivated person can master enough of the language to take a leading role.&lt;br /&gt;
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The cmavo index included with this issue is the first complete list with definitions since the draft list of October 1988. The definitions are short, and not very explanatory in some cases; John is working on expanding them. You can use the partial cmavo list from JL10 to make additional notes on many of the cmavo; the exercise will also help you to learn those cmavo that were on that list.&lt;br /&gt;
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In many cases, you will need to look up the lexeme for each cmavo in the machine grammar in order to know how it is used; some 100 cmavo are each &#039;in a class by itself&#039; - a lexeme with only 1 member whose meaning is solely grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most of the remaining cmavo are found in a very few lexemes. Members of lexeme UI are the attitudinals, discursives, and observationals used to comment metalinguistically on what you are saying. Lexeme BAI contains the modals; these can be used somewhat like adverbs to modify the selbri, or can be used somewhat like prepositions to tag sumti that are not part of the place structure, thus tying them into the bridi relationship being expressed in the sentence. Lexeme KOhA has the &#039;pro-sumti&#039;, which act somewhat like English pronouns. Lexeme COI has vocatives, which are like attitudinals but are addressed specifically to a listener. Lexeme BY is the lerfu - the letters and symbols of the alphabet, and various auxiliary shifts and markers. Lexeme PA are the numbers and related symbols used to read off numerical strings.&lt;br /&gt;
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The English &#039;keywords&#039; intended for use in LogFlash 3 (which will teach the cmavo), all 20 characters or less, are included in the abbreviated cmavo list. Bob and Nora reviewed John&#039;s list, adding these keywords (needed for LogFlash 3 - Bob has learned most of the cmavo now in testing that program. See the products section below). We want comments from the community on the keyword choices before releasing LogFlash 3. Do the keywords make sense to you (assuming that the cmavo definitions do)?&lt;br /&gt;
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The shortened definitions in this list will be expanded into full text definitions for the dictionary, and John intends to devise examples for each grammatical usage of each cmavo. This effort is only a goal, and may not be practical for all words.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFest attendees recognized that our finances have reached the point of crisis. The 18 attendees, in exceptional gestures of support, donated over $1000 to la lojbangirz., but this was merely enough to keep our bank balance positive, allowing this issue to be printed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even with these donations, our income for this year is running well behind the income for last year, in spite of the fact that our audience/customer base is some 50% larger. We&#039;ve kept expenses down; they are also running behind last year, but this is primarily due to firm controls on non-vital expenditures. Our new 501(c)(3) status makes U.S. donations tax deductible, but donations are also well below last year even with the recent influx from LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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The problem is that, while most people who order stuff pay for it, not all of you do. Our prices have been set at a non-profit level, so each non-paid sale is a pure loss that has to be made up from donations. Sales of our software, the only products with a price that makes us some profit, are down, and probably will continue to be until the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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Less than 100 people had positive balances at a recent audit. Only a couple of dozen have the balance amounts corresponding to each level that we request on our registration forms and in the mailing label summary in each JL issue. Most magazine publishers require you to pay for subscriptions in advance - we cannot afford to have people paying for issues after their balance goes negative.&lt;br /&gt;
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Several of our largest contributors, who are footing the bill, are starting to get angry about all this, and have demanded changes in policy. They want their money going to promote growth in the language, and not to finance &#039;deadbeats&#039;. (Harsh words, but that is a direct quote from one major contributor.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The most extreme position is that everyone should be able to afford to contribute something towards their balances - the price of an order of french fries every couple of weeks would fully pay for a level 1 subscription. Anyone not willing to contribute this amount simply isn&#039;t interested in supporting us.&lt;br /&gt;
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The counter to this position recognizes that some people don&#039;t have the money for french fries, or for Lojban. We don&#039;t want to exclude prisoners, students, and people from other countries where incomes are a fraction of those in the U.S. Lojban is not supposed to be a language for the &#039;monied&#039; class, but for everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
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An intermediate position, which may win out in the long run, is that we are going to have to insist on payment from most people, and make exceptions on a case-by-case basis, only by special request, and often with strings attached such as required volunteer work or the submission of writings to show that the beneficiaries are actually using what we&#039;re giving them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Regardless of the final decision, something must be done, and now. Less than 20% of our people have positive balances, and we must get the rest of you to pay some amount towards our expenses on your behalf or we&#039;ll have to cut you back, or cut you off.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some decisions have been made. If your balance is more than $50 negative as of 20 October, you will be cut to level 0. Only a special pleading will change this. Contributing some money, even a little, will probably put off a cutback, if we are convinced that you are likely to continue using the material and contributing some money. If you can pay off your balance, or make a commitment to do so by a specific time, all the better.&lt;br /&gt;
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If your balance is more than $20 negative as of 20 October, you being put on notice that we may have to drop you to level 0 as well. You should write to us, and try to send some money, even if it is only $5 or $10. Ideally, you will bring your balance positive.&lt;br /&gt;
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If your balance is negative at all, and we haven&#039;t heard from you in over a year, we need to hear from you, or you also may be dropped in level. Even a short note to let us know you are still interested and reading the material we send you will help; if you send some money to bring your balance positive, all the better. The Ballot/Questionnaire enclosed with this issue is an opportunity to respond without writing a letter.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, we would strongly prefer that you bring your balance up to the desired support level listed on the front of each issue for your level ($40 for level 3, $25 for level 2, $20 for level 1, and $5 for level 0); that way we don&#039;t have to keep asking for money each issue. We&#039;ll accept whatever you can contribute. But the bottom line is that those who want the language to succeed, and can afford it, should have balances over $20, or even $50, for our use as operating funds, and are contributing a little extra on the side to help us with those who do not pay.&lt;br /&gt;
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If you feel that your balance charges have been unfair, that we&#039;ve charged you for something you haven&#039;t gotten, let us know, and we will make the situation right. If you question whether our material to you isn&#039;t worth what we are charging you, let us know what you think it is worth, and we may be willing to negotiate - but be aware that we are spending what we charge you.&lt;br /&gt;
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Your negative voluntary balance is not a &#039;bill&#039;. We have no legal way to collect it if you don&#039;t want to pay it. But if we can&#039;t get much higher percentages of people paying for the stuff we send them, we will be in serious trouble. The question is whether you want us to succeed. If so, you&#039;ll contribute.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even if most people bring their balances positive, this won&#039;t be enough; our expenditures will be rising as we get ready to publish the textbook, and as our numbers continue to grow. We actually need to convince many more of you to keep the specified positive balances to support your subscription level. Those positive balances are our operating funds that allow us to keep day-to-day business going; we currently spend about $1000 a month.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve also learned more about the realities of the book publishing business, and why book prices have gone up so much in recent years; bookstores and distributors demand and get 40-55% off list price, and even then don&#039;t pay for 3 months or more and expect to return the covers of any books they don&#039;t sell (they discard the books - postage and labor is too high to send the whole book back) for credit.&lt;br /&gt;
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Based on this, we need enough income from sales within the existing community to pay the entire pre-publication print and marketing bill, or we&#039;ll be bankrupt. Either that or get a lot of donations, which seems unlikely.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result of our financial situation and this future reality, all existing discounts are terminated as of 1 August 1990 pending any decisions from the finance committee and the membership. Overseas people (excluding US/Canada/Mexico) will be charged a flat 20% surcharge to handle the increased postage. The primary impact of this will be that JL prices inside the US will no longer be discounted for bulk mail.&lt;br /&gt;
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A 20% discount will be given on any order over $20 which is prepaid - i.e. you have enough in your balance, or contribute enough to cover the price. (This discount will cancel the surcharge for people outside North America.)&lt;br /&gt;
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At textbook time, there will probably be a further carrot for those with positive balances. Everyone in the community will get an offer to buy the textbook in advance of the official publication date at some discount from list price. We expect that for prepaid orders from people with positive balances, we will be discounting the textbook price as much as $10. This of course means that the price will be that much higher for everyone else. Those with negative balances will likely receive little or no discount.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition to all of the above, the finance committee will probably be recommending that we send a fund-raising letter to each of you, independent of JL, pointing out how much we&#039;ve accomplished on a mere shoestring and asking you to contribute so that we can continue to produce your language. We still need donations above and beyond paid sales in order to finance our continued growth (and to pay off existing debts).&lt;br /&gt;
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With our finances as they are, we are at a disadvantage in seeking outside grants; donors look for financial stability and community support, and we just aren&#039;t getting enough. It also costs money to prepare grant proposals, and we don&#039;t have it.&lt;br /&gt;
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The finance committee will be considering how to value volunteer efforts on our behalf, and we may offer volunteer work as a way to ameliorate a negative balance. The offerings will be slim; there isn&#039;t much volunteer work that we can place value on, and we can&#039;t afford to &#039;pay&#039; much.&lt;br /&gt;
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Volunteer activities include translating materials into foreign languages, giving talks and recruiting new people, and writing significant amounts of Lojban text. In the short term, we&#039;re looking for volunteers in the DC area to come over to Bob&#039;s house and type several hundred addresses into the computer - these are addresses of book dealers and reviewers that we will have to contact before the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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Your response to all these measures will determine where we go from here. The 350 JL subscribers are Lojban&#039;s best supporters but also the biggest drain on our resources. If we can go from 100 people with positive balances (the current number) to 250, we will probably survive. If we can get to 300 or more with balances over $10, the Lojban project may again be fiscally healthy.&lt;br /&gt;
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We welcome all suggestions for other ways to raise money, to gain donations, and get more balance contributions.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Language Definition Status Summary ===&lt;br /&gt;
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With all that hand-wringing about finances, it is worth reviewing what your contributions have bought so far in terms of products and services, and most important, in terms of the language itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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The design of the language is basically complete; we await various write-ups before final baseline of the design, because we need to have a clear written statement of what the design is in order to protect that design against change.&lt;br /&gt;
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The language is stable. Preliminary baseline changes have been minimal, and have almost entirely been additions to the language that have no impact on people who have already started learning. Let us look at each design area to see where it stands: &lt;br /&gt;
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Phonology - Lojban pronunciation has not changed since being baselined over 2 years ago. Few questions have been raised about the design. There is no reason to expect changes for the indefinite future, although we will be trying to make the Synopsis discussion more readable to the average person before incorporating it into the dictionary.&lt;br /&gt;
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Morphology - The Lojban morphology has also been baselined for over 2 years without significant questions being raised. There is a remaining open issue on the exact rules for borrowing words from other languages. The required form - the essence of the design - is firm, but whether there needs to be additional constraints on borrowing forms remains a matter to be decided by the people who use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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There has been a proposal, supported most notably by Michael Helsem, that would allow either &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; as the &#039;hyphen&#039; after a CVV rafsi, unless the following consonant is the same letter. This is a simple change that would only increase options (currently, you use only &#039;r&#039;, unless the following letter is an &#039;r&#039;, in which case you use &#039;n&#039;), but we are reluctant to make the change. One reason is that it seems too unimportant to justify a baseline change. Another is that it further increases the number of possible forms for a lujvo, making it harder to produce the dictionary (and taking up more space). Finally, the change would constrain le&#039;avla (borrowing) space, something we should avoid unless we have a good reason.&lt;br /&gt;
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Orthography - The Lojban alphabet and required writing conventions are unchanged since the baseline over 2 years ago. In JL12, Bob proposed some additional optional conventions, which were adopted at LogFest. We&#039;ve been given a proposal to use different letters to represent the &#039;i&#039; and &#039;u&#039; glides in diphthongs, since these technically are different sounds than those in the non-diphthong vowels; we&#039;ll probably discuss this proposal prior to next issue, but expect no changes.&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu - The gismu list was baselined just about two years ago. Specifically baselined were the gismu themselves and the corresponding English keywords. (The rafsi and place structures are discussed below.) Exactly one gismu was changed at the recent LogFest; no other changes have been even proposed. There have been 4 changes to keywords, including the three for &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot; mentioned above as just approved. All 4 changes were instigated by Lojban learners who expressed confusion about the meaning of the word based on the keyword, and suggested a clearer word; none of the gismu meanings, as expressed by the keyword, have changed. Further changes are not expected.&lt;br /&gt;
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The recent LogFest provided the first additions to the gismu list since the baseline. There are looser controls against adding words, since these cause no relearning; we&#039;ve been surprised to go two full years (until the recently approved changes) with no additions at all. The couple of open issues mentioned above may lead to further additions, and there is an ongoing re-review of the gismu in thesaurus fashion that may reveal one or two possible words, but we don&#039;t expect many.&lt;br /&gt;
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Two noted Lojbanists, Athelstan and Michael Helsem, have voiced the opinion that we should be much more willing to add new gismu to the existing set. Tommy Whitlock, on the other hand, is adamantly opposed to adding new gismu, since he thinks there are too many already. This balance of opinions among the most senior Lojbanists, and the increasing number of active students, means that additions will occur slowly if at all, and with extensive review from several members of the community.&lt;br /&gt;
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rafsi - The rafsi list has proven as stable as the gismu list, even though it was not baselined. The reluctance to change anything that has been released via LogFlash lists has been enough to defer change proposals indefinitely. There was one change early on, when we changed the rafsi of &amp;quot;narge&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;-nag-&amp;quot;, freeing &amp;quot;-nar-&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The recently adopted negation proposal split the negation cmavo &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; into three words, two of which needed rafsi. &amp;quot;- nar-&amp;quot; was assigned as the rafsi for &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;, while &amp;quot;-nal-&amp;quot; was assigned to &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;. All of the other grammar changes led to the addition of perhaps a half dozen rafsi assigned to cmavo, and a couple of the rafsi being freed. (See the summary with the JL12 attitudinal proposal for a list.)&lt;br /&gt;
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There are two change proposals to be considered prior to the next LogFlash release, to make more &#039;hyphen-friendly&#039; rafsi for the abstractors &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot; which are being used more commonly in lujvo that require hyphen &#039;y&#039; than originally estimated. Again, no other changes are planned, although we will be looking at the rafsi more thoroughly at the time the dictionary is written, when the rafsi list will be formally baselined.&lt;br /&gt;
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We don&#039;t want to freeze the rafsi list until we&#039;ve analyzed a lot of lujvo made by as many different Lojbanists as possible, thus minimizing the likelihood that usage statistics (applied to &#039;fine-tuning&#039; the selections) are skewed towards words favored by one or two Lojbanists who do not know all the gismu equally well.&lt;br /&gt;
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Place structures - Place structures will also not be baselined until the dictionary is written. A very slow review and rewrite of all of the place structures is in progress, and will be completed for the next release of LogFlash and the textbook. The new versions of place structures being examined will be expressed in greater detail than those included with the current gismu list, and should be easier to understand. (The maximum definition size will be 96 characters instead of the current 40.)&lt;br /&gt;
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A change to the place structure is inherently a meaning change, and we try to avoid them. Almost all changes have been additions and deletions to the last trailing places that few have learned or used. More commonly, the changes are clarifications to better let a reader know what type of sumti value is expected in a sumti place.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of all parts of the language design, the place structures are the least stable and finalized, but Bob can testify from his experience that only a few changes have ever affected anything he&#039;s written. (Most significant of these is the place structure of &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, which was modified to put the selbri in the 2nd place; the x2 place of the place structure for &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, as printed in the gismu list, makes no sense - a bridi is a sentence/relationship and has no &#039;meaning&#039; independent of context. The change, of course, rendered &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot; as the appropriate word for the concept, since the word relates by definition to the x2 place of &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;. (&amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot;, for those who were not aware or have forgotten, is an artifact-word from before the gismu baseline, and should be replaced by &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot; where ever you see it.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Grammar - The Lojban grammar is defined by a computer-verified definition called the machine grammar. As reported above, this grammar has now been baselined. Even before the baseline, there had been only 3 or 4 changes in the last year as we wrote the draft textbook lessons and re-examined entire areas of the grammar. These changes were in the more esoteric portions of the grammar that were seldom being used, and text written in Lojban since around JL8 (including all of the draft lessons) is nearly as grammatical now as it was when written.&lt;br /&gt;
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The new baseline is a &#039;soft&#039; baseline, that will allow us to make minor corrections that show up in textbook writing. Few such changes are expected, but we may find that we can allow some constructs that are currently forbidden, as well as rules that we thought were in the grammar that were omitted typographically. These changes will not &#039;enter the language&#039; officially until the textbook is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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The strength of the grammar is that each of the special areas like negation, tense, MEX, and attitudinal indicators, has received thorough &#039;end-of-development&#039; analyses that make it unlikely that the language will prove inconsistent or incomplete in these areas. As recently as last issue, we were uncertain that our MEX design would stand up to analysis; the final design proved quite versatile, and we believe that we have met the goal of being able to readily express any mathematical expression &#039;reading it off the notation&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The weakness of the grammar is that we do not have a parser that reflects the final grammar; such a parser is needed to test the grammar against a corpus of prepared sentences, ensuring that the grammar breaks sentences up the way we think it does. We are thus forced to use the random sentence generator as a &#039;backwards test tool&#039;, looking at the sentences it generates from the baseline grammar, and seeing that they match our intended grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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Still, we don&#039;t anticipate that the grammar will change much before its final baseline when the dictionary is published.&lt;br /&gt;
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cmavo - The cmavo list in this issue is the first complete one in two years, and reflects a lot of changes. There could be a more cmavo added prior to final baseline, but probably very few (there isn&#039;t a lot of spare words available for adding); we expect almost no changes other than additions. The fact that the list has been published will serve as a stabilizing factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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The keywords for the cmavo are likely to change. Simply put, they haven&#039;t been looked at by many people, and are inherently less valid than the gismu keywords. Since cmavo have little semantic meaning, we have to use short phrases that don&#039;t say a lot to try to convey the memory hook that an English keyword is supposed to provide. We&#039;d like feedback on the keywords, while recognizing that most readers don&#039;t know that many of the cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
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All in all, we&#039;ve accomplished a lot in just 3 years. With your support, imagine what the next 3 years will bring.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products Status ===&lt;br /&gt;
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First a reminder that the discount policy has been drastically changed, effective 1 August. A flat 20% surcharge outside of North America; a 20% discount for a paid order (positive balance exceeding the price at the time of shipment) over $20. (The discount will cancel the overseas surcharge.) Virginia orders should add 4.5% sales tax. Note also that for software, there is no surcharge for MS-DOS 3 1/2&amp;quot; diskettes, but you must specify in your order if you want them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Remember that we cannot promise to fill your order unless it is prepaid; our finances are too thin right now.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook Status - Believe it or not, the textbook is finally started (again). Spaced around 3 issues of JL and one issue of LK in 3 months, planning and conducting LogFest, researching MEX and tense grammar in time for the grammar baseline, and assisting John Cowan in assembling the gismu list, along with some major work on our legal battle, Bob finally sat down at the keyboard shortly after midnight on July 4.&lt;br /&gt;
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The new version of the textbook is already unrecognizable as compared to the first, even though only 20 odd pages are written so far. The first lesson, which will serve as a language overview, is divided into short sections only a page or two long, with many examples and exercises in each section to help you see whether you understand. Using a much smaller vocabulary (perhaps only 25 gismu in lesson 1), we will examine much more of the basic grammatical features of the language. By page 20 you will be making Lojban sentences, hopefully with little trouble; in the draft lessons you did not make sentences until late in lesson 2 - about 80 pages along.&lt;br /&gt;
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The textbook will be more interesting to read. We are trying to put more interesting examples in (difficult with very little vocabulary). Several pages have boxed and highlighted recaps of the key points of the text. Many of the most significant and unique features of the language will be touched on by the end of the first lesson. You will know that Lojban is a truly different language quite quickly. The text also ties back to English examples, helping you understand better how English works, based on a comparison with Lojban. Thus, even if you never find a practical use for Lojban, you will receive benefits in terms of expressing yourself better in English (and any other language you learn).&lt;br /&gt;
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Under the current outline, the text is divided into three parts. The first part, which will consist of an introduction and the single overview lesson, will tell you about Lojban, lightly introducing the basic concepts and giving you the &#039;big picture&#039; of the language. Some areas are treated very lightly - pronunciation is conveyed only by guides that tell you how to say each word and sentence. This is because pronunciation is a &#039;big subject&#039; and a very boring one to start off with. We want you to be motivated to speak the language, not bored. Some of the topics are: the concepts of bridi, cmavo, selbri, tanru, sumti, place structures, conversion, ellipsis, elision, descriptions, abstractions, questions in Lojban. We include a brief summary of several other unique features that are too difficult to cover in the first lesson.&lt;br /&gt;
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Part II will be about ten lessons long, each much shorter than the draft lesson size. This part of the book will build depth on the basic concepts presented in the introduction and explain many of the secondary structures that you need to say what you want in Lojban. The Part II lessons continue to use a much smaller vocabulary than the draft lessons (perhaps 300 words), but expect you to look up some words that are not formally part of the vocabulary to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
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A major change is that we will not expect you to learn most of the gismu vocabulary within the first 8 or 9 lessons. While some people have demonstrated that it can be done, most students in the classes have not kept up with the expected pace. The current plan is to add an extra stage in LogFlash, before Gaining Control, that exposes you to a lot more words quickly, but does not expect you to master them. There will be only &#039;New Word lessons&#039;, &#039;error practices&#039; and some brief reviews in this introductory mode - the object is to have you quickly able to recognize more words in Lojban text and to learn the scope of the vocabulary. Many who have learned part of the vocabulary have tried to write sentences, but have not been able to find the right word because they didn&#039;t know it was there. You should do better using this modified technique.&lt;br /&gt;
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The goal is that by the end of Part II, you will have completed this initial review of the words, and will be started in &#039;Gaining Control&#039;, which will hopefully go much smoother for you as you work through Part III. We are hoping to shrink the huge demoralizing bubble of error words in the &#039;Failure Pile&#039; that seems to afflict many people.&lt;br /&gt;
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Following are the topics to be covered in Part II, according to the current outline. This is of course subject to change as the book is written:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lesson 2 -     Pronunciation and Word Forms Some Classroom &lt;br /&gt;
       Expressions					   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 3 -     Learning	Vocabulary; Simple tanru           &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 4 -     Making Names				   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 5 -     Numbers					   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 6 -     tanru and lujvo;	selbri Structure	   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 7 -     sumti and Place Structures; Relative Clauses&lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 8 -     Tenses and Modals; se tcita sumti	   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 9 -     Logical Connectives and Negation		   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 10 -    Discursives and Vocatives		   &lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 11 -    Keeping Lojban Unambiguous and Clear	   &lt;br /&gt;
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By the time you start on Part III, you should know some 300 gismu and 50 cmavo by actually having used them in sentences. You will not be expected to produce longer text than single sentences. In Part II, grammatical features will be pretty much covered in isolation to help you recognize the key point of each section; this is a bit like Jim Brown&#039;s technique in Loglan 1, but the earlier introductory lesson will allow us to keep the concepts tied together much better than he was able to - you&#039;ll know the destination while travelling a most interesting journey through the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Part III, we will start presenting longer texts and dialogues, which will have enough vocabulary available to be meaningful and adult. Exercises will require you to more spontaneously produce original Lojban sentences, especially in a classroom or study group. Unlike the draft lessons, though, you should have the knowledge and confidence you need to make up sentences by the time we ask you to do so. In classroom use, bits of Lojban conversation should start occurring.&lt;br /&gt;
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After the first few lessons in Part III, the remaining lessons will be less oriented around specific concepts in the language than Part II. Instead, we will explore the vocabulary associated with some topic, present some of the more esoteric grammar points that are useful for talking about that subject, and then use the language to do just that. Some problems in translation and original composition in Lojban will be covered.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whereas Part II is called &#039;Learning Lojban&#039;, Part III is called &#039;Using Lojban&#039;. You will be expected to write and/or converse in the language throughout Part III, and should be comfortable doing so by the end of the book, with vocabulary limits as your main constraint.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a lot of writing ahead, but the book is off to a good start. Moreover, with the baselined grammar and the compiled cmavo list, we are much more confident that what gets written will not have to be continually rewritten.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;re not going to promise a publication date. As mentioned above, we&#039;ve learned a bit about the lengthy process of publishing a book if you want to make money at it (and we can&#039;t afford to lose money).&lt;br /&gt;
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What we can promise is that the book will be available to the Lojban community (you) in advance of the official publication date at a substantial discount. This helps us in that we pay for the printing bill without waiting for distributors and vendors to pay us, and it rewards you for sticking with us up until now. But to receive the best discount you must have a positive voluntary balance.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another progress report will be given next issue, and perhaps we&#039;ll be able to guess at a date by then.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Products - With the baseline of the grammar and the preparation of the cmavo list, we are moving forward on a variety of teaching products.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most directly dependent on the grammar and the cmavo list is the random sentence generator, which will also be used to test the grammar. It takes only a few days to incorporate the new standards, and we will probably have an update available by 1 October. The update price will be $10; due to our financial situation, we can no longer provide updates any cheaper than this. The original price will be $12.&lt;br /&gt;
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The lujvo-maker has now been completed, providing drills and demonstrations of both lujvo-making and decomposition. Updates are available for $10; the original price will be $12. The only future enhancement to the lujvo-maker that seems to make sense would be a feature that builds and tests le&#039;avla (borrowings) for proper structure. Because the lujvo-maker does not take a lot of space on a 360K floppy disk, we will include computerized text copies of various word lists and the grammar on the disk.&lt;br /&gt;
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The only stalled product based on the grammar is the Lojban parser; we have had no volunteers to complete the work. There is a possibility, however, that Jeff Prothero will soon have a new version of &#039;PLoP&#039;, his &amp;quot;Public Domain Loglan Parser&amp;quot; updated to the Lojban grammar. This would be an &#039;unofficial&#039; parser, using the YACC grammar, but not the YACC algorithm. PLoP is of a type called a &#039;recursive descent&#039; parser, which is more flexible than a YACC parser, but can be much slower. It will work fine on individual sentences up to some length, taking at most a few seconds, but it is very slow on blocks of text. By comparison, the last version of Jeff Taylor&#039;s parser processes a full page of text in a couple of seconds, albeit based on an older grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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A new version of LogFlash for MS-DOS machines will be prepared and hopefully released this fall, and it will be significantly enhanced. First of all, we are already testing &#039;LogFlash 3&#039;, which teaches the cmavo (we can provide this test version now to people who are ready to learn the cmavo and don&#039;t want to wait for the full release, but please don&#039;t ask for it unless you are ready to use it).&lt;br /&gt;
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Second of all, we are adding an initial review stage prior to &#039;Gaining Control&#039; that will quickly expose you to a lot of words in &#039;New Word Recognition mode&#039;, hopefully allowing you to read language text earlier while enhancing scores when you advance to the more difficult stages.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are also adding several user-friendly features. First will be an installation program that will ensure that floppy disk users have &#039;COMMAND.COM&#039; available, and unpack any packed data on disk automatically. LogFlash will ask you for confirmation before overwriting an existing file. It will allow you to tune the program by changing the default of 6 repetitions in error practices and/or the number of review words from the &#039;Under Control&#039; pile that are presented in each session. It will also allow you to more easily switch between learning modes. We will also be try to make large error practices more friendly, giving you a sense of progress by telling you how many times you have done a word successfully. An option we are considering will allow you to look at the entire list of words for a lesson prior to taking the test. We may also allow you to add or update your own memory hook data during the review portion of a lesson. (We welcome additional suggestions on how we can make the program more friendly, but we need your responses quickly.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We want to increase the speed of the program by reducing the amount that it has to read files from disk. We aren&#039;t sure how much work this will be, and are not making specific promises.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, we will also be adding instrumentation that will allow LogFlash to be used for scientific research into how different people learn words, most especially to see if recognition scores used to make Lojban gismu have any correlation with actual learning rates. Depending on finances, we may be offering a volunteer credit to anyone who (learns the words and) returns their instrumentation files within a specified time after we send you your order (instrumentation data is only useful to us if you work at LogFlash consistently - the time limit will help motivate you to keep at it).&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, the new LogFlash version will support the updated gismu list. The gismu list as it is being revised will allow 20-character keywords instead of 15, and the definition field will be 96 characters, instead of the current 40 character limit. As a result, the definitions will be much clearer and you should have a better idea what a Lojban word really means. We may be providing an editable hint field that you can use to add mnemonic aids, and we may also allow you to change the keywords from their official values to something more memorable (most useful to British users who have suffered American spellings for too long).&lt;br /&gt;
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Not included in this update are LogFlash versions that will teach place structures and grammar (although learning the modal cmavo of lexeme BAI will teach you a lot of important place structures). Maybe next year.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are hoping to have Eric Raymond&#039;s UNIX version of LogFlash available by the end of the year. Unfortunately, due to the lag in development time, both the UNIX version and the Mac LojFlash version will be stuck with the current file formats for a while. Dave Cortesi plans to update his Hypercard flash program for the MAC to use the new file formats; if so, this program will also be available at approximately the same time as the new version of PC LogFlash.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are undecided about whether to produce and distribute the revised gismu list separately, as well as John Cowan&#039;s cmavo dictionary, or wait a few extra months and try to get it into a first edition dictionary format. The textbook effort will probably be the determining factor. Publishing these revisions will be lower priority, since you can use copies of the existing lists for most purposes. The revised lists would also be very expensive - the bi-directional gismu list might run up to 60 pages, and 100 pages if we add a thesaurus-sorted list. At those sizes, it would be cheaper to produce the dictionary; we don&#039;t have the money to maintain such large documents in inventory.&lt;br /&gt;
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We also want to publish a &#039;tiny gismu and cmavo list&#039;, having only keywords on the English side, that would be small enough to carry in your pocket or purse.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course, the textbook and dictionary will be the centerpiece of our product line. We hopefully will be able to follow up these two books with a &#039;Best of JL&#039; and a first book of Lojban writings during 1991 - but this is again dependent on money.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We don&#039;t have a lot of news this time that is specific to the international Lojban community. We have now successfully processed Master Card/ Visa orders from overseas, as well as one larger Canadian-denominated check. We ask that those of you sending checks from Canada clearly indicate whether the check amount is in Canadian or American dollars; apparently some of your banks will issue U.S. dollar checks, and we do not need to use the more expensive service to process them. We can&#039;t be sure, however, that our banks here will process your check correctly if you are non-specific as to the currency.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our major international event in the next few months is Athelstan&#039;s planned visit to Europe. On that, we have worse than no news. Just as we were going to press with this issue, some problems came up that threaten whether the trip will take place as planned. It is possible that the trip may be delayed (causing Athelstan to miss Worldcon at the end of August), and possibly even cancelled.&lt;br /&gt;
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Assuming the trip does come off as planned, we have few additional itinerary details - only two of you have written to us letting us know you want Athelstan to visit. Athelstan does now have a point of contact in Europe. He plans to visit Peter and Mary Lynn in Goettingen, West Germany around the first week of September. If you haven&#039;t made contact with Athelstan by writing to us here, you can contact the Lynns:&lt;br /&gt;
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Peter and Mary Lynn&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Schopenhauer Weg 13&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Goettingen D3400 FDR&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;WEST GERMANY&lt;br /&gt;
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home telephone: (49)-551-706485&lt;br /&gt;
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Peter is also working on a German translation of the brochure, which may or may not be ready by Athelstan&#039;s visit.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan also plans to be in northern Italy around 21-23 September, visiting Lojbanist Silvia Romanelli (who also reports having translated some of the draft textbook lessons into Italian).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== News From the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The Loglan Institute published another Lognet around mid-July. Dr. Brown has apparently assumed editorship with Rex May&#039;s resignation reported last issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is little news in the issue. The issue was dominated by half of a paper by Rex May challenging some of the basic design points of the language. The second half of the paper is supposed to be in the next Lognet issue, and will present Rex&#039;s proposal for radical changes in the Loglan morphology. (Rex sent a copy of his paper to Bob for comment independent of submitting it to Dr. Brown.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Dr. Brown discusses and responds to each of Rex&#039;s major points. Bob observes that Dr. Brown&#039;s discussion is an excellent defense of the basic language design, providing a few previously unknown historical details about the language design process. Most important of these is the revelation that Dr. Brown did conduct some &#039;engineering tests&#039; of the recognition scores algorithm used to make gismu, something we had no evidence of when we responded to Sheldon Linker&#039;s questions on the subject several issues ago. While we could wish that such tests were better documented, it is reassuring to be able to say to critics that they were conducted. All in all, our plaudits to Dr. Brown.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dr. Brown also reports on solutions to two outstanding morphological issues in Institute Loglan; these problems were discovered by Nora and raised in Bob and Athelstan&#039;s review of the 4th edition of Loglan 1 last year.&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora is skeptical that the solution devised for names containing &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; will work universally, but with the Institute grammar a &#039;trade secret&#039;, it is impossible to analyze the current design. (Unlike Institute Loglan, Lojban forbids the various name markers from being embedded in names to prevent such problems.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The solution to the other problem, that of hyphenating borrowings, is similar to our own solution for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is brief mention that the Institute plans to revise The Loglanist under a new name, possibly by the end of the year. There also is a report that one of the Institute&#039;s software packages had a bug that is now fixed, but there were no details given.&lt;br /&gt;
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== JL11 Esperanto Discussion ==&lt;br /&gt;
A Response from Don Harlow&lt;br /&gt;
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[Don Harlow is editor of the Esperanto League of North&lt;br /&gt;
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America newsletter. His position makes him a natural spokesperson for the Esperanto community in responding to our essays in JL11. However, see also Ralph Dumain and John Hodges in the &#039;Letters&#039; section below for more comments on Lojban and Esperanto.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Thanks for the latest copy of Ju&#039;i Lobypli. I was particularly interested in Athelstan&#039;s comparison of Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; with a similar set of rules for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan is quite right in suggesting that &amp;quot;the rule set is incomplete.&amp;quot; In fact, the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; are largely a heuristic device created to introduce Esperanto to persons with a late 19th-century European education, by describing Esperanto in very simple terms relating the language to something more familiar to the student -- i.e., the Indo-European languages. This can be seen by the reference in rule 2 to the &amp;quot;two cases of Esperanto&amp;quot; (Esperanto has as many cases as any other language), the reference in rule 6 to the passive voice of verbs formed by compounding (there are no compound verbs in Esperanto), by the reference to the &amp;quot;imperative mood&amp;quot; in the same rule (the -U ending subsumes, but is hardly restricted to, the traditional IE imperative), and particularly by rule 8; logically, prepositions (which are basically case-forming morphemes) should govern an unmodified noun form, and it is only because of the contrast with the Indo-European languages, where they usually do not, that this rule is necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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The so-called &amp;quot;Fundamento de Esperanto&amp;quot; is, in fact, about 200 pages long, and includes the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; (repeated in five different languages), a complete dictionary of some four thousand roots -- an additional four thousand or so have been added to the canon since that time, plus between eight and sixteen thousand unofficial roots that need not be considered part of the language -- and a series of some 42 exercises designed by Zamenhof to demonstrate aspects of syntax and the Esperanto word-formation system. The &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; themselves are, as I say, a heuristic device, and a convenient skeleton on which to hang the language&#039;s &amp;quot;flesh.&amp;quot; Most of the material in these rules would, today, be better presented in tabular form.&lt;br /&gt;
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A few points about Athelstan&#039;s presentation:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Athelstan does &amp;quot;not describe word or sentence order....&amp;quot; This seems a bit ingenuous to me, since as far as I can tell word and sentence order play a more significant role in Lojban than they do in Esperanto, and so to describe a &amp;quot;set&amp;quot; of Esperanto rules and equate them to a single Lojban &amp;quot;rule&amp;quot; that is at a much higher level is not quite cricket. An example is rule 3. The Esperanto presentation of the morphology of the adjective is quite complete in four lines; the Lojban presentation says only that &amp;quot;any selbri may modify any other selbri by position,&amp;quot; but does not define how this is done (do selbri modify other selbri preceding them? by following them? by sitting in the next line up?) This is like saying that Lojban code is more concise simply because the reader is presented only with a subroutine call, while in the Esperanto code the reader is shown the entire content of the subroutine. The content is there in Lojban; Athelstan has merely found it convenient to overlook it.&amp;lt;ref name=pa /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
# Granting Athelstan&#039;s contention that several of Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;single rules&amp;quot; contain other rules, he does himself the favor of counting some of those sub-rules more than once, if they are referred to in another &amp;quot;super-rule.&amp;quot; For instance, he counts the rule that the direct object is shown by affixing the -N ending at least three times (rule 2, rule 3, rule 5). The computer equivalent would be rewriting the subroutine each time it was called -- at which the compiler would, no doubt, burp.&lt;br /&gt;
# Given that Esperanto&#039;s &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; are a heuristic device, they are certainly more complete and successful than those presented by Athelstan for Lojban. Speaking &amp;quot;quantitatively,&amp;quot; they are accessible to a much wider range of people than the Lojban rules. The Esperanto rules refer largely to nouns, verbs, adjectives, past tenses, etc., which are terms that are generally recognizable to graduates of the seventh grade, or equivalent (my ten year old daughter is familiar with them, from school). Athelstan&#039;s Lojban rules, on the other hand, use unglossed terminology that might confound a college graduate -- anaphora, non-veridical, place tags, etc. (I consider myself moderately well educated, but I had to look up &amp;quot;anaphora&amp;quot; in a dictionary -- and was not much wiser for the experience.)&lt;br /&gt;
# Speaking &amp;quot;qualitatively,&amp;quot; Athelstan in many places describes his Lojban rules using Lojban terms that will have no meaning to the casual reader -- a rather recursive sort of action, if you ask me. &amp;quot;Lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi??? The definition of each one of those terms should be counted as a separate rule (axiom, if you will).&lt;br /&gt;
# Some comments on individual rules:&lt;br /&gt;
## The description of participles in Esperanto rule 6 is not properly part of this rule but belongs in the hidden (also for Esperanto!) working of word-building (rule 11 see below); the description of the passive voice properly belongs to the Ekzercaro. I do not, however, fault Athelstan for taking these items as he found them.&lt;br /&gt;
## &amp;quot;Every word is pronounced as it is spelt.&amp;quot; Pardon me for referring to Loglan rather than Lojban -- and if this is not also true for Lojban, you need not pay attention to this comment -- but this is not completely true for the language. Loglan treats the sound written in English as &amp;quot;CH&amp;quot; as a stop &amp;quot;t&amp;quot; followed by a fricative &amp;quot;sh&amp;quot;, written &amp;quot;tc,&amp;quot; rather than as, more correctly, a single harsh fricative halfway between the stop and the fricative. Brown was here apparently influenced by the (not invariably phonetic) International Phonetic Alphabet, which in this case appears to have been heavily influenced by French. Esperanto more correctly treats this single sound with a single letter. I am not sure whether Loglan and Lojban treat the single sound written in English as &amp;quot;ts&amp;quot; as two sounds (again as a stop followed by a sibilant, rather than as a single harsh sibilant) or as a single sound/letter (&amp;quot;c&amp;quot;) as in Esperanto. (A similar use of two letters to designate an intermediate sound is the occasional use of &amp;quot;kh&amp;quot; in English to describe the Esperanto &amp;quot;h^&amp;quot;, a sound intermediate between &amp;quot;k&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;h&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
## Esperanto&#039;s Rule 11, of course, refers to the Ekzercaro -- see particularly Exercise 42. Athelstan refers to some sort of &amp;quot;variant compounding rules&amp;quot;; I would be interested in seeing these. The actual rules describing the word-formation system are neat but complex; they were first formulated as late as 1910 by de Saussure, writing under the pen-name &amp;quot;Antido&amp;quot;, and expanded by Kalocsay in the 1920&#039;s in a well-known essay. The latest set appear in the Plen Analiza Gramatiko de Esperanto (1985 edition), where they fill some 148 pages and differ little form Kalocsay&#039;s earlier rules. That these rules are of little use and less interest to the practicing Esperantist can be seen from the fact that their earliest codification occurred some 23 years after the language began to be spoken; most people can figure the system out after looking at a page or so of examples, and never bother to refer to the rules, to which they don&#039;t have access anyway.&amp;lt;ref name=re /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, a couple of Athelstan&#039;s comments suggest that he isn&#039;t really qualified to comment on Esperanto in general, any more than I am on Lojban (which is why I keep correcting you on Esperanto rather than commenting on various points of Lojban grammar, syntax, etc.). For instance, on p. 20 he refers to &amp;quot;Esperanto&#039;s dependency on case declensions.&amp;quot; There are no declensions in the traditional/IE sense in Esperanto. The -N ending, to which he is probably referring, defines the target of an action (direct object) or, if no action is committed, the destination of a movement&amp;lt;ref name=ci /&amp;gt;; it can be applied to adverbs as easily as to nouns and their accompanying adjectives. Again, the terms &amp;quot;nominative case&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;accusative case&amp;quot; in this sense are sops to Indo-European sensibilities; Esperanto has neither one in the narrow sense of a declension. In the broader sense, of course, it does have nominative and accusative cases, as do English, Chinese, or -- one presumes -- Lojban; it also has genitive, dative, instrumental, ellative, terminative, sociative, etc. cases, as do English, Chinese, and -- I again presume -- Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Regarding your own essay &amp;quot;On Comparing Lojban and Esperanto&amp;quot; let me make several short (I hope, as, I am sure you do) comments:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Under &amp;quot;aesthetics&amp;quot; you mention a couple of sentences that &amp;quot;are longer than the colloquial English translation&amp;quot;; and in an earlier issue you begged off translating a song from English into Lojban because the translation would be longer than the original. This seems to me to be an acceptance of the old saw that &amp;quot;any translation into any other language will average about 25% longer than the English original&amp;quot; -- and (a word to the wise) it seems to be a very dangerous attitude to take.&amp;lt;ref name=vo /&amp;gt; Every translation I make into Esperanto from English comes out significantly shorter then the original. More than that, so far as I know a competent translator can get the same results in just about any language going. I would hope, for the sake of Lojban, that this &amp;quot;expansion effect&amp;quot; is a function of the translator rather than a function of the language. If not, it is a strike against Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
# You have again quoted the &amp;quot;like it is done in your own language&amp;quot; comment, which was not made by Zamenhof, but in the basic Interlingua textbook of 1950!!! Esperanto is extremely well-defined, partly through the 16 rules as described above, but mainly through the Ekzercaro, which also appeared in the Unua libro in 1887. No reference to outside languages was or is necessary. I thought we&#039;d been over that ground before! As to the Europeanness of Esperanto ... proof of the pudding. Esperanto&#039;s greatest successes in the past few years have been outside of the Indo-European language area. (From May to October of this year, a nationwide Esperanto course is running on Chinese television -- a more significant matter, I think, in a country with only one national TV network instead of four or five, and no more than two or three channels in even the largest cities.)&lt;br /&gt;
# The comment that &amp;quot;Lojban took 35 years to reach a point of development where it was speakable&amp;quot; might perhaps have been avoided. Esperanto took some 12-14 years to reach the point (1887) at which Zamenhof considered it optimal; but the Ur-Esperanto of 1878 was already speakable, at least according to the anecdotal information. That it took Lojban (I presume you mean Loglan) 35 years to reach the point at which it was speakable is not, I think, a point in its favor as a means of communication. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The rapid growth of Esperanto in its first years after public release was a spontaneous affair. You quote a figure of 8% a month growth in the number of Lojban students. Based on Zamenhof&#039;s published address lists -- and making a conservative assumption that only ten percent of those who claimed to be able to speak Esperanto could actually do so -- in the first half year after Esperanto&#039;s publication, the number of Esperanto speakers grew at a rate of more than 100% per month. (This high figure, of course, like your own, comes from starting with such a small base; and it dropped considerably by the early 1890&#039;s)&lt;br /&gt;
# You attribute some significance to the fact that you &amp;quot;NEVER [HEARD] A SINGLE CONVERSATION IN ESPERANTO&amp;quot; at the Esperanto table at Worldcon. I personally have met only one of the people who worked at that table (and he was there for only an hour or so), and I know that he speaks fluent Esperanto; I can&#039;t answer for the others. But when you&#039;ve sat at a few more tables at conventions, and have carried on a few conversations in Lojban under such circumstances, you will learn an interesting fact: more people -- or at least Americans -- are repelled when they hear a conversation they don&#039;t understand than are attracted.&amp;lt;ref name=mu /&amp;gt; When possible, I always use English under such circumstances. (This is not always possible; at the last three conferences of the Foreign Language Association of Northern California that I&#039;ve attended as an exhibitor, my co-exhibitor and I have spoken nothing but Esperanto -- because he&#039;s a Rumanian, and not terribly comfortable in English.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hope that you have found all this of some interest.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds - That the 16 rules are intended only a heuristic device seems to be lost on many Esperantists, who often try compare the 16 rules to our set of YACC rules, which number about 550; Athelstan&#039;s effort was an answer to those critics. See Ralph Dumain&#039;s discussion and my response in the letters section below for more on this.&lt;br /&gt;
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Don effectively supports our assertion that the 16 rules have as a subtext the entire grammar of European languages. &amp;quot;The Esperanto rules refer largely to nouns, verbs, adjectives, past tenses, etc., which are terms that are generally recognizable to graduates of the seventh grade, or equivalent&amp;quot;. But these terms are only recognizable to students of European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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The emphasis should be on &#039;student&#039;, by the way. While Don&#039;s 10-year old may find the terms familiar, we have found college graduate English speakers who have long since forgotten the terminology of grammar classes. To many of our audience, &#039;noun&#039; is as bad as &#039;anaphora&#039; (maybe worse, since no one feels guilty that they don&#039;t know what anaphora are. Anaphora are, by the way, the superset of &#039;pronouns&#039; - the things that stand for and refer to earlier referents in the discussion; &#039;cataphora&#039;, the opposite term, cover variable words that refer to things in future discussion, but &#039;anaphora&#039; also is used as the general term covering both sets of variable reference words. Based on Don&#039;s comment, however, we will start using a Lojban lujvo &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot; - /bah,HEE,vlah/ for the general concept of &#039;anaphora&#039;; the source metaphor &#039;replacer-word&#039; should help people remember what the word means).&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan intentionally used specialized Lojban terms that were as opaque to a European language speaker as they would be to a speaker of a non-European language. This may help point out what a Chinese or Swahili speaker suffers reading the Esperanto rules. We don&#039;t seriously intend using the 11 Lojban rules as a heuristic device; as Don says, they just aren&#039;t very understandable. Furthermore, they cover no more of the Lojban grammar than the Esperanto rules cover of its grammar. However, they do help point out some ways in which Lojban is similar to European languages, including Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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I remain unconvinced that Esperanto&#039;s grammar is unlike Indo-European languages. As an example, contrary to what Don implies, the number and specific cases in a language are not universals, and are significant aids to classifying them. That a language has &#039;nouns&#039; and &#039;verbs&#039; and &#039;adjectives&#039; that work in ways familiar to us, that most sentences have a &#039;nominative&#039; agent case as the subject, usually appearing before the verb, and an &#039;accusative&#039; object case that usually appears right after the verb. These are anything but universal, though they are found in most, if not all Indo-European languages. Many languages have no nominative or accusative cases, being organized around cases called &#039;ergative&#039; and &#039;passive&#039;. Some languages do not even have a clearly identifiable subject, and Japanese has both &#039;subjects&#039; and &#039;topics&#039; that each serve some of the purposes of the Indo-European &#039;subject&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now what Don says later about the &amp;quot;-N&amp;quot; ending could be used to argue that Esperanto&#039;s cases are different from the Indo-European ones, but by standard linguistic terminology, that ending is a &#039;declension&#039; that marks its word as being in a case (grammatical role) which differs from the grammatical role it would be in if the declension were not present.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has NO grammatical cases. Linguists and artificial intelligence people can assign &#039;case labels&#039; to the various sumti places in the structure, but these are not grammatical cases. They are semantic cases that indicate the semantic relationship between the place and the rest of the sentence. In Lojban there are as many potential semantic cases as there are words in the language - an infinite number. The places defined in the place structure are merely those most essential to conveying a relationship. We list the places in the definitions of the words partly to remind people that Lojban bridi express relationships, and to remind them of the essentials of the concept to be related.&lt;br /&gt;
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In one sense, Lojban doesn&#039;t even have a &#039;subject&#039;. Technically, all of the sumti places are &#039;objects&#039; that are related by the selbri. However, in at least two ways, the 1st (x1) place of any given bridi predicate, whichever of the sumti it happens to be in a given arrangement, has a unique role among the places which might as well be labelled as &#039;subject&#039;, for consistency with the terminology of linguistics. We&#039;ll let linguists determine if the x1 sumti really is a &#039;subject&#039; in the traditional sense, or whether another term better applies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now it turns out that many of our relations resemble European languages in that the first place is often an agent and the second place is an object. This may represent a European bias, albeit unintentional. The intent is to include places in approximate order of frequency of use in discourse; our model for usage frequency is unfortunately the English language we hear most often. The desire to bring in a broader perspective before finalizing the structures is one reason why we are avoiding baselining the place structures until the last possible minute, and why place structures will be among the first things to be re-evaluated after the 5-year freeze.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, the resemblance does not give Lojban the Indo-European cases of Esperanto. There are no case endings, no grammatical requirements such as that adjectives must &#039;agree&#039; with a particular case. We have &#039;case tags&#039; in Lojban, but these are optional and even frowned upon for &#039;cases&#039; in the place structure, and anyway resembles a combination of &#039;prepositions&#039; and &#039;adverbs&#039; more than case inflections on words. (They also resemble what Don calls &#039;case-forming morphemes&#039;; however, in Lojban they are separate words that do not &#039;govern the form&#039; of any other word.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has no &#039;passive voice&#039; either - a &#039;passive voice&#039; is an artifact of Indo-European grammar which is used less in English and Germanic languages than in other European languages. In Lojban, there are various methods of rearranging the sumti places of a predicate. One might label any arrangement that doesn&#039;t have an active agent in the x1 position &#039;passive&#039;, but again, this isn&#039;t the same as the European &#039;passive voice&#039;. (See B. Comrie&#039;s books The World&#039;s Major Languages and Language Typology and Linguistic Universals for excellent discussions of the typological features of language.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is distinctly different from any natural language in several ways. The first step in learning Lojban, therefore, involves stepping out of the constraining ideas of natural language to learn these new concepts. Once that is accomplished, then for European speakers, Lojban is probably comparable in learning difficulty to Esperanto; Lojban has a somewhat simpler grammar, but Esperanto&#039;s roots are more highly recognizable to Europeans (and English speakers). For Chinese speakers, Lojban may actually be easier, since many features of Lojban&#039;s grammar at least superficially resemble Chinese features.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan ... describes his Lojban rules using Lojban terms ... The definition of each one of those terms should be counted as a separate rule (axiom, if you will).&amp;quot; - Should the definition of each of the Indo-European grammatical terms used in the Esperanto rules have also been counted as &#039;axioms&#039;? If so, I think Esperanto comes out far the worse for the added criteria. The number of specialized Lojban words we need to discuss the grammar is fewer than the number of words needed to discuss a European language.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan does &#039;not describe word or sentence order....&#039; This seems a bit ingenuous to me...&amp;quot; - There are two types of word order that can be talked about. The order of words of particular grammatical type in a sentence is specified by the entire set of rules of the grammar. There is no meaningful &#039;rule&#039; or &#039;rules&#039; that govern this kind of word order. The order of the places for a given brivla, on the other hand, is not a grammatical issue in Lojban at all, unlike European languages and Esperanto (I understand that Chinese is also relatively free in word order).&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus, Athelstan did not discuss word order because it is not part of the Lojban grammar. The order of the places is part of the semantic meaning of each word, just as the meanings of &#039;subject&#039; and &#039;object&#039; for each Esperanto verb are part of the meaning of that verb. From our perspective, such semantic rules are at a lower level of the language than grammatical rules. Lojban has no higher level rule that can be said to govern the order of places. There may be some patterns, but we haven&#039;t really tried to find them.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The Esperanto presentation of the morphology of the adjective is quite complete in four lines; the Lojban presentation ... does not define how this is done (do selbri modify other selbri preceding them? by following them? by sitting in the next line up?)&amp;quot; - The Lojban &#039;morphology of the adjective&#039; is complete in zero lines, since we don&#039;t have adjectives. selbri modify other selbri in many ways, some of which are adjective-like. The modification can be left-modifies-right or right-modifies-left, logical connection, or non-logical connection. In all but the simplest left-to-right modification, there are cmavo that can be translated literally into English or other languages, revealing the order, and we believe that all possible orders and groupings can be represented in some way. Athelstan simply didn&#039;t find anything to say about Lojban that corresponded to what was being said in the Esperanto rule. What he said was complete and accurate - position in a Lojban sentence totally determines what modifies what.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for Don&#039;s facetious suggestions on how selbri might modify each other by position, I reply in kind: do Esperanto adjectives get written on the line before?&lt;br /&gt;
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Interestingly, in other places, Don excuses his 16 rules for non-specificity: &amp;quot;the description of the passive voice properly belongs to the Ekzercaro&amp;quot; and talking about word-formation rules &amp;quot;they fill some 148 pages&amp;quot;. Again, our purpose was to compare what was present in the Esperanto rules with a corresponding level of detail about the Lojban rules. We recognize that neither set of rules is complete; we want to be able to point this out to Esperantists that cite the 16 rules as a statement of Esperanto&#039;s simplicity. So Don has made our point for us.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Most Esperantists ... definitely obey a particular rule of word-formation ... -- one that, so far as I know, has never been written down, and would be difficult to codify in a few simple sentences.&amp;quot; - Hopefully Lojban is sufficiently regular that no one ever will have to say this about the language. Our word compounding rules are quite rigid, and yet fairly unrestricted. We don&#039;t constrain any word from modifying another, and provide some fairly esoteric grammatical conversions to allow you to combine concepts that are grammatically incompatible.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Athelstan refers to some sort of &#039;variant compounding rules&#039;&amp;quot; - I believe Athelstan was referring to the extensive set of additional rules, not conveyed in the set of 16, that take 148 pages to describe, as well as rules such as the ones Don describes as not written down.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... he does himself the favor of counting some of those sub-rules more than once, if they are referred to in another &amp;quot;super-rule.&amp;quot; - Athelstan was merely trying to show that the &#039;super-rule&#039; grouping concealed the true rule count. The exact number of rules, I&#039;d hoped we had demonstrated, was quite irrelevant. Lojban&#039;s 550-odd stated rules, by the way, are expanded by YACC into about 800 unique computer-labelled &#039;states&#039; which correspond to expanding and repeating each of the &#039;subroutines&#039; Don refers to as often as is necessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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A Lojban-based computer process does not choke on such expansion, since the expansion is a natural product of YACC. When we say Lojban is grammatically unambiguous, it is because in each of these 800 states, by looking at the next word only, a Lojban processor knows what state to go to next. The grammar process consists simply of jumping from state to state until the end is reached.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Loglan treats the sound written in English as &#039;CH&#039; as a stop &#039;t&#039; followed by a fricative &#039;sh&#039;, written &#039;tc,&#039; rather than as, more correctly, a single harsh fricative halfway between the stop and the fricative. Brown was here apparently influenced by the (not invariably phonetic) International Phonetic Alphabet, which in this case appears to have been heavily influenced by French. Esperanto more correctly treats this single sound with a single letter...&amp;quot; - Correct by whose standard? (Correctness always has a standard, as any Lojbanist knows from the place structure of &amp;quot;drani&amp;quot;). The IPA is the standard alphabet of linguistic phonology, and hence is the way that one must describe sounds when talking to a linguist. To claim that the linguistic standard phonetic alphabet is wrong because it doesn&#039;t agree with Esperanto seems a bit backwards.&lt;br /&gt;
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The combination of a stop and a fricative is called an &#039;affricate&#039; and can be treated as either one sound or as two. In Lojban, we treat all affricates, including &#039;tc&#039; and &#039;ts&#039;, as two sounds; so do most linguists.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is due to the simple reason that if you say the stop and the fricative together, they phonetically blend to form the affricate in a way indistinguishable to most listeners. Thus, if we were to write the affricates as a single letter, we would have to forbid the two-letter combinations that are equivalent. Since no other single letter sound in Lojban can alternatively be expressed as two sounds, to match the Esperanto distinction in only a couple of cases would be inconsistent. (Does Esperanto forbid the two-letter equivalent combinations of the affricates to prevent confusion?)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto&#039;s approach causes untold heartache to typists, forcing the addition of non-standard diacritical marks to several letters to fit the language within the Roman alphabet. (There is at least one typo in the Esperanto rules because of this - I forgot to manually go back and add an Esperanto diacritical mark that is not supported by my word processor or printer.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto is not consistent on the matter of the affricates, by the way. While representing the affricate sounds that are expressed by Lojban &#039;tc&#039; and &#039;ts&#039; with a single letter, as well as the voiced equivalent of the first (&#039;dj&#039; = English &#039;j&#039;), Esperanto does not have the voiced equivalent of &#039;ts&#039; as a single letter as consistency would require. The sound of &#039;dz&#039; in it is expressed using two letters in Esperanto words (an example is found in one of Don&#039;s footnotes), even though it is a &#039;single sound&#039; by the identical logic as the other three.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Comrie&#039;s book on the languages of the world, similar comments to mine are made in explaining why &#039;ts&#039; and others are not considered as one in Germanic languages. It is pointed out that linguistically, any stop can be combined with any fricative, and each such &#039;affricate&#039; combination could be treated as one sound or as two. Examples include &#039;ps&#039;, which will be recognized from Greek, and &#039;pf&#039; from German. But neither Esperanto nor English nor Lojban treat &#039;ps&#039; or &#039;pf&#039; as a single sound.&lt;br /&gt;
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Don is wrong in equating the &#039;kh&#039;/Lojban &#039;x&#039; sound with the two affricates. &#039;x&#039; is a pure fricative - called an &#039;unvoiced velar fricative&#039; or an &#039;unvoiced palato-velar&#039; fricative depending on exactly where the tongue is placed (these are the sounds of German &#039;doch&#039; and &#039;ich&#039;, respectively). The &#039;x&#039; sound linguistically has nothing to do with an &#039;h&#039; sound, which is actually formed in the epiglottal region. That we represent &#039;x&#039; as &#039;kh&#039; in English is a convention; it has nothing to do with sounds (notwithstanding this, trying to combine a &#039;k&#039; with an &#039;h&#039; will give a reasonable &#039;x&#039; sound).&lt;br /&gt;
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Unlike English and German, IPA does use a single letter for this sound. (The true velar affricates - combinations of stops and fricatives - aren&#039;t pronounceable either as single or double sounds for English speakers - in Lojban, they would be expressed as &#039;kx&#039; and &#039;gq&#039;, if &#039;q&#039; is defined as the voiced equivalent of &#039;x&#039; - found in Arabic as the sound at the beginning of Libyan leader Qaddafi&#039;s name.)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;... the old saw ... &#039;any translation into any other language will average about 25% longer than the English original&#039; ...&amp;quot; - Almost any literal translation will take longer than the original. Translating Lojban to English literally is usually even more expansive than 25%, often 2- to-1 or greater; just look at any of our translations here in JL. On the other hand, the reverse direction gives the same result.&lt;br /&gt;
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The translator&#039;s art involves producing idiomatic non-literal translations that capture the approximate sense of the original. This will sometimes be shorter, sometimes longer, since the source language may be using an idiom that has no counterpart in the target language (which is always the case with Lojban at this point). Also, almost any culturally-based word has to be expanded into a phrase in another language if meaning is to be preserved. If Don is &#039;always shorter&#039; as he claims, he is undoubtedly omitting subtleties of the source language version that he considers either obvious or irrelevant given the context. If he is correct, he is a true artist; otherwise, his readers are missing useful and perhaps important information.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lojban, there are other factors, based on its unusual grammar. Where logical structure is always explicit, the convoluted logic of some English sentences has to be expanded to great length; on the other hand the English &amp;quot;it is not the case that&amp;quot; is expressed briefly as Lojban &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;. When Athelstan translated Saki (see JL10) he found the resulting text was about the same length or shorter. (There are actually more words, since Lojban words seem to average about 30% shorter than English words; there are also more syllables - Lojban words seldom have syllables more than 3 letters and certainly not as long as &#039;strengths&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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I doubt that Don&#039;s objection to the old saw proves true for all languages, by the way. I suspect that regardless of the translator, most Romanized Chinese (where most words are one or two syllables) translates to Russian (with inflectional suffixes that are one or two syllables long on most words) resulting in a longer text.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;That it took Lojban 35 years to reach the point at which it was speakable is not, I think, a point in its favor as a means of communication.&amp;quot; - Wrong. It shows that we were diligent in our research. And with good reason; we know much more about language now than in Zamenhof&#039;s time, and we have a tougher and more skeptical audience (the academic world) to please. We also had a bigger job to do, since Lojban was designed from scratch.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether or not Don is right about the Indo-European-ness of Zamenhof&#039;s grammar, there is no doubt that Zamenhof started with European grammar and simplified. We (originally Brown and later others as well) started with nothing except a goal of matching predicate logic structures, and the vague notion of speakability. Because we had no working language to emulate, there were undoubtedly going to be false starts and re-engineering of major features. I suspect that much of Zamenhof&#039;s development period was used to select the root word stock; only a small fraction of Loglan/Lojban development time has gone into word-making.&lt;br /&gt;
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In a sense, Esperanto took the entire evolutionary period of Indo-European grammar to be developed. (Of course, by the same logic, Lojban took 2500 years, since predicate logic was invented, to be developed).&lt;br /&gt;
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(You can also compare the actual Esperanto development period with the time that we&#039;ve taken to redevelop the Lojban version of Loglan from scratch to avoid copyright - less than 3 1/2 years so far, and I suspect that our design is far more intricately specified than Zamenhof&#039;s was when he published. By Don&#039;s histories that I&#039;ve read, I gather that Esperanto was not complete in a sense of being standardized until sometime after 1900. Depending on your definitions, we will be comparably standardized either when the textbook and dictionary are done or after the 5 year baseline period proves the language is stable.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been told that a major milestone occurred as late as 1905 when the annual Esperanto meeting was first conducted in Esperanto; at this meeting it could first truly be said that Esperanto was a &#039;living language&#039;. Lojban should achieve that status in a much shorter time, although possibly with a smaller speaker base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I note that Jim Brown considered his language speakable in 1977, or possibly even earlier (there are reports that a group called the &#039;Loglan Sogrun&#039; conversed to a minimal extent in the 60&#039;s). Brown actually tried to teach the language to college students in the 50&#039;s - though with no particular success - and sold books teaching the language starting in 1966.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown&#039;s books of the 60&#039;s were probably as complete as Zamenhof&#039;s 1888 book, but Brown did not have the follow-through that Zamenhof did, nor the &#039;market&#039; ripe for the language that Zamenhof had with the simultaneous collapse of Volapk. Also, to put it simply, Brown&#039;s books, while they explained things in considerable detail, had no text longer than individual sentences. They were thus at best mediocre in teaching the language for actual use. But this was not a flaw in the language or its design, but rather in its inventor&#039;s teaching and writing style.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban has had an added handicap over Esperanto - a changing plural set of goals which is more than mere &#039;speakability&#039;, and rising standards on what it takes to achieve those goals. The standard of unambiguity changed with the development of computer tools like YACC, and a language thought to be unambiguous suddenly wasn&#039;t. I believe I&#039;ve done more work researching language universals than Brown did.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole point of the JL11 discussion, of course, was that comparison of development periods just isn&#039;t practical, and the various numbers in the above discussion should prove this. But Athelstan and I were trying to respond to comments and questions that have been frequently raised by Esperantists. If the &#039;35-year&#039; development effort can be claimed as a strike against us, we have the right to argue it as a virtue instead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;... more people -- or at least Americans -- are repelled when they hear a conversation they don&#039;t understand than are attracted. When possible, I always use English under such circumstances.&amp;quot; - I was merely observing that at a convention table &#039;selling&#039; a language, it seemed strange not to hear the language. I would expect that Americans are not much repelled to hear a &#039;strange&#039; language if they expect to hear one, and one would expect to hear one at an Esperanto table, which is not a BART train. I certainly did, which is why I made the comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(On the other hand, Americans are often offended to hear a language other than English when visiting a foreign country, but this is the Americans&#039; problem, not the natives. In the US these days, perhaps 10-20% of the people have a native language other than English, so Americans will have to get used to hearing things other than English.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also have a different philosophy as to what it takes to sell a new language to Americans. If you use English whenever that is a possibility because it is a common language, you merely support the argument that &#039;we don&#039;t need Esperanto (or Lojban) because English is already spoken by most everyone who wants to talk to people from another culture&#039;. Regardless of whether it is true or not, the average American is going to think that you are speaking English because it is easier or more convenient than Esperanto. And if it IS easier for you to speak English than Esperanto to another Esperantist, you are missing out on a prime opportunity to learn to speak it better, while demonstrating that the language is useful to passers-by (something most of them are probably unconvinced of).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I can speak Lojban fluently I will try to speak Lojban at convention tables promoting the language, if the other people manning the table also speak comparably well. If I have problems with people who seem repelled, I&#039;ll add a sign inviting them to ask us what we&#039;re saying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will entice people and cause them to see that we think the language is worth speaking when we could be speaking English instead; they will also be curious as to what we are saying, and we&#039;ll happily explain. This may not be how it works out in reality, but this is our goal, and our limited experience so far is that using the language in public prompts curiosity and not repulsion. (We&#039;ve done nicely at conventions with people who notice our buttons with the slogan &amp;quot;e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we&#039;re wrong, Don can say &amp;quot;I told you so&amp;quot;. But if this turns out to be the case, then I am most pessimistic that any language will be acceptable as an International language to Americans. At any given time on the path to acceptance, there will be Americans who don&#039;t know the language. If a foreigner is not going to learn English (in which case English is the international language), then the American must learn Esperanto or whatever before the need arises where it must be used, or she/he won&#039;t be fluent when that need arises. And this means speaking the language extensively with English-speaking cohorts before then, by definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In any event, to go from a few thousand to 250 million Americans speaking a particular foreign language will take some aggressive (and skillful) marketing which may be offensive to some people. Possibly as offensive as the USEnglish people are in promoting English (whether one agrees with their opinions or not, their words and tactics are pushy and offensive). The trick is to market aggressively while minimizing offense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I should note that I while I disagree with Don on this point, I find many of the Esperanto marketing techniques quite skillful, and hope that we Lojbanists can learn from them. This is only practical under a cooperative, as opposed to competitive relationship between the two communities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Footnotes &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=pa&amp;gt;Your example on p. 25, &amp;quot;X1 is good for X2 by standard X3,&amp;quot; which I presume is written in Lojban -- from your past references to Prolog -- as something like &amp;quot;Good X1 X2 X3&amp;quot; - - would indicate that the position rules in Lojban are much more complex than those in English, and vary from property to property. With regard to my later comments on case, the descriptive rule for speakers of Indo-European languages would be: &amp;quot;The property good relates a noun in the nominative case in the immediately subsequent position, a noun in the dative case in the third position, and a noun in the &amp;quot;standardize&amp;quot; case in the fourth position.&amp;quot; Hopefully Lojban&#039;s rules are more consistent than some of those of English, in which, for instance, the accusative succeeds a positional dative but precedes a prepositional one...&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=re&amp;gt;Some of these rules have not yet been codified. For instance, Kalocsay and Waringhien, the authors of PAG, recognize that Esperantists regularly use adjective roots as prefixes for noun roots -- novedzino, dikfingro are common examples -- but do not admit that this usage is grammatically justified. Most Esperantists go on doing this anyway, and they definitely obey a particular rule of word-formation in doing so -- one that, so far as I know, has never been written down, and would be difficult to codify in a few simple sentences.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=ci&amp;gt;Which, if we suppose the -N ending to mark the accusative case in the traditional Indo-European sense, makes vers such as &amp;quot;to go&amp;quot; transitive in Esperanto -- something most IE languages would not allow.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=vo&amp;gt;When I was young I read -- in a number of places -- that no other language is nearly as good as English for swearing. In fact, English is a rather pale language in this regard; compare it with any Eastern European language, for instance.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=mu&amp;gt;I was carrying on a private conversation in Esperanto on a BART train a week ago, and was excoriated for this by the middle-aged lady sitting next to me.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Masters of Tongue Fu ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Donald J. Harlow&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
originally published in The ELNA Newsletter&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;reprinted with permission&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When people say &amp;quot;International Language&amp;quot; today, they are probably talking about Esperanto. In China, in fact, the language is better known as shi jie yu, which simply means &amp;quot;international language,&amp;quot; than as &amp;quot;Esperanto.&amp;quot; In those parts of the world where &amp;quot;interlinguistics&amp;quot; is an accepted part of the science of linguistics, articles on the subject -- if they are not purely historical in nature -- will almost certainly refer almost exclusively to Esperanto. Discussions of the literature of artificial languages will concentrate totally on that of Esperanto, since only very underdeveloped literatures exist for other artificial languages, and for most of them, don&#039;t exist at all. Any study of the sociology of an artificial language, too, will concern itself only with Esperanto, since only two other artificial languages ever had populations of adherents even remotely comparable to that of Esperanto, and then only for very short periods of time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But Esperanto is neither the first not the only &amp;quot;international language.&amp;quot; Attempts to create such a language go back at least to the thirteenth century, when the Abbess Hildegarde of Rupertzberg, a lady more recently exhumed -- and justly so! -- by the women&#039;s movement, the gnostics, and various musical organizations (how refreshing it is that Hildegarde, one of the earliest of the &amp;quot;Renaissance Men,&amp;quot; was a woman!), created her &amp;quot;Lingua Ignota.&amp;quot; The philosophers Comensky, Leibniz, and Descartes all wrote about the international language; Bishop Berkeley worked at developing one. In the last century, the Frenchman Sudre created Solresol, a language meant to be whistled or trumpeted, and it enjoyed a very long period of popularity in some circles in France; at one point the French military even considered adopting it, possible because trumpets can be heard over greater distances than shouted commands. Who knows? Had the French followed through with this idea, their defeat in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871 might not have occurred, and all later history would have been different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No one knows how many &amp;quot;international languages&amp;quot; have actually been proposed. The figure certainly exceeds a thousand. These range from genuine a priori languages, all of whose material is invented out of whole cloth, to slightly modified ethnic languages, such as Basic English. But of the thousand or so such languages, only a few have ever attained any degree of popularity, and most of that has been spurious -- a creation of the news media, ever in search of some new and interesting story. Chronologically, these most famous of international languages have been: Volapk, Esperanto, Ido, Occidental, Basic English, and Interlingua. For those who know little or nothing about the origins and fates of these languages, I would like to give an introduction to them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volapk was invented in 1880 by a German priest, Monsignor Johann Martin Schleyer. Schleyer, a polyglot, recognized among his less talented parishioners the need for a language to communicate across national boundaries, and set our to create on. The result was Volapk. The language enjoyed tremendous popularity over the next decade, but, because of certain aspects of its grammar and vocabulary, it generated a strong movement for reforms among many of its speakers; and Schleyer, who saw himself as the language&#039;s Pope, so to speak, refused to even consider such reforms. The language&#039;s most vocal adherents split into two factions, one supporting Schleyer and on supporting his chief opponent, a French professor named Auguste Kerckhoffs. The resulting struggle destroyed the language, many of whose proponents in any case were shifting their allegiance to the rising (green) star of Esperanto by the end of the eighties. By the beginning of the new century, Volapk was all but dead, though at least one (very small, very irregular) bulletin in the language seems to have appeared as late as 1960. When Bernard Golden went in search of speakers of Volapk on the language&#039;s 100th birthday, he found a total of ten -- all of whom also spoke Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is worth noting, however, that at its peak Volapk boasted perhaps 100,000 adherents -- though how many of them could actually speak the language is open to question. In this regard, it is interesting that it shared several characteristics with Esperanto. The two of these that are perhaps most important, in my view, are: (1) an agglutinative system of word-formation, in contrast to the standard Indo-European system (more correctly: lack of a system); and (2) the desire of the inventor to solve the problem of communication between people of different languages, not just to invent an artificial language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t want to go into Esperanto&#039;s history in any detail here. If you want to read a good book about the early period, get a copy of Edmond Privat&#039;s Historio de la Lingvo Esperanto, or his Vivo de Zamenhof. I would only wish to say that, more than a hundred years into its existence, Esperanto&#039;s eventual fate has not yet been decided. Given that over its history the language has had few friends, except for a (relatively few) far-sighted and courageous souls who have actually gone out and learned it, while it has succeeded in gaining for itself a notable array of enemies -- Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin spring immediately to mind -- the staying power that the language has demonstrated is quite encouraging.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me only add here that Zamenhof, like Schleyer, was interested not in creating and artificial language but in finding some viable solution to the problem of communication between different peoples. And in Zamenhof&#039;s case -- he was a Jew living in late 19th century Russia -- the problem was far from a theoretical one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Zamenhof stated (in his First book) that Esperanto was not our typical European language. Arguments over Esperanto&#039;s Europeanness go on even today. Certainly, despite recent modest accretions from Japanese and other non-European languages, Esperanto&#039;s lexical material remains primarily European, chiefly Romance, in origin. Other aspects of the language&#039;s structure are less convincingly European. Certain tendencies in popular use of the language -- for instance, the occasional doubling of short adjective roots to show emphasis, rather than through use of the -EG suffix -- show a pattern of thought in the language reminiscent of Chinese.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t intend to argue here over whether Esperanto is fundamentally European or non-European; but certainly many early speakers of the language in Western Europe found it less European (more particularly, less West-European) than they would have liked. This was particularly true in France, where many early leaders of the national Esperanto movement would have preferred a more Francophone, or even Anglophone, tone to the language. A few of these gentlemen, in fact through a rather underhanded process, set themselves up as &amp;quot;reformers&amp;quot; of Esperanto, and in 1907 produced a version of Esperanto that appeared much more in tune with the linguistic norms of the world -- i.e., French and English. For a while, they expected that their new language would replace classical Esperanto, but when this did not happen -- a vast majority of ordinary speakers of the language refused to make the necessary changes in their habits -- the &amp;quot;reformed Esperanto&amp;quot; split off and became an artificial language in its own right, Ido.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While Ido shows a decided shift away from Esperanto&#039;s agglutinative word-formation system, back towards a more Western European orientation, it does not represent a complete break with the linguistic ideas expressed first in Volapk and then more clearly in Esperanto. The real difference between the two languages lay in the motivations of the men who developed them. It is fairly apparent that the problem of communication was of little interest to Prof. Louis Couturat, Louis de Beaugront, and Major Charles Lemaire, the primary motors behind the development of Ido; they were more concerned with what they saw as Esperanto&#039;s linguistic blemishes. This is hardly surprising; the pleasant little conspiracy into which they entered for the purpose of replacing that Russian Jewish eye-doctor as the guiding force in the international language movement shows in them an ethical blind spot that would not fit well with a genuine concern for the communications needs of ordinary people. Insofar as I do did prosper -- and it prospered, in fact, much more than did any other &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; except Volapk and Esperanto -- it did so, I believe, despite the people behind it, not because of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ido, in fact, appears to have attained a maximum population of about 10,000 adherents by the early 1920&#039;s -- not all that far behind Esperanto in that period. But as the ranks of Esperanto swelled through the twenties, to reach more than a hundred thousand by 1930, those of Ido appear to have declined. It nevertheless remains extant even today, though in what seems to be a basically moribund state. Ido, like Esperanto, has actually produced a small original literature -- though, strangely enough, so far as I know the only genuine literary work ever published in Ido, a collection of original poetry, was published by the Kultura Centro Esperantista in Switzerland.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent newspaper article about another constructed language project referred to Esperantists as &amp;quot;verbal hobbyists.&amp;quot; As a matter of fact, Ido did much to cull the verbal hobbyists out of the Esperanto movement very early on. One result of this is that, for many years, the Esperanto movement has been remarkably free of individuals who see the language only as an interesting project, whose main purpose in existing is to improve itself by adopting their recommended reforms. Another result is that the Ido movement ended up consisting mainly of just such people. It is hardly surprising, then, that when yet another &amp;quot;improved&amp;quot; international language came along, it would skim off a far greater percentage of members from the Ido movement than from the Esperanto movement. This language was Occidental, proposed in 1922 by the Estonian Edgar De Wahl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language&#039;s very name gives away De Wahl&#039;s motivation. An early Esperantist, he also abandoned the language early on, apparently in protest against its non-traditional structure. Whether he was ever a practicing Idist, I don&#039;t know, but suspect that from the time he left Esperanto he followed a very different and more radical route. Occidental, built upon the basis of an earlier project, Julius Lott&#039;s Mundolingue, can best be described, I think, as a late and very highly rationalized Romance dialect, with noticeable German accretions. It was, in fact, nothing less than an attempt to codify West European thought processes in a constructed language. Supporters of Occidental justified this by asserting that civilization, being essentially European in nature, should be represented by an essentially European language. In this way, the language would help make the blessings of European thought available to the rest of the world -- or help keep the rest of the world under the European thumb, as the more cynical might tend to think.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The nineteen thirties were, in some ways, the apogee of language construction; Occidental was merely the most successful and best known of a series of attempts to create a new international language. The famous Danish linguist Otto Jespersen, for instance, a long-time mainstay of the Ido movement, abandoned the language in favor of his own project, Novial, which was largely a clone of Occidental. But the best-known project of this period probably remains Basic English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Basic English, invented in 1930 by the Englishman C. K. Ogden, was an attempt to simplify English and make it more suitable for international use. Ogden claimed to have reduced the entire vocabulary of the language to 850 words. The problem was that his claims were spurious; the language included far more than 850 words (Ogden did not count &amp;quot;international&amp;quot; words such as alcohol in his 850 word vocabulary, though they were considered part of the language; and he added several 1000-word technical vocabularies). Also, many people felt that Basic English was merely a &amp;quot;Trojan horse&amp;quot; for a more standard brand of the language. The event proved this latter group correct; in the 1960&#039;s, the British Council, a government-sponsored organization devoted to spreading English among the heathens, bought the rights to Basic English, and since that time it has been used only as in introduction to standard (read: British) English. Though several famous English-speakers supported the language from time to time, among them Winston Churchill and H. G. Wells (who, in The Shape of Things to Come, had the whole world speaking Basic English), no popular movement for this language was ever generated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of the growing number of language projects, there was some confusion as to which one would be, or even should be, the ultimate international language. This confusion had begun when Volapk, which had offered such high hopes to the world, fell apart and was replaced by Esperanto; and it had become endemic when the Ido schism occurred in 1907. By the late twenties, with Esperanto and Ido and Occidental and who knew how many other projects vying for attention, it was understandable that the ordinary individual would throw up his hands in disgust. An American Esperantist, Mrs. Alice Vanderbilt Morris -- of the New York Vanderbilts, I believe -- funded the establishment of a new organization to do research into the problem and find some sort of acceptable solution, for instance a compromise between the different language projects. The organization was called the International Auxiliary Language Association, or IALA for short.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
IALA, located in England, though it did valuable research work, had little luck in convincing anyone to compromise. The Romance-based &amp;quot;naturalistic&amp;quot; languages such as Occidental and Novial would not be ready to yield in the direction of &amp;quot;schematic&amp;quot; Esperanto; and Esperantists at that time were not yet ready to forgive the Idists for the dirty work at the 1907 crossroads. In any case, the Esperantists, who even then made up between 80 and 95% of the entire International Language movement, felt that they had no need to compromise. Furthermore, by the mid thirties they had other and more pressing problems to attract their attention -- proscriptions in Germany and the USSR, for instance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, IALA, after moving to the United States at the outbreak of war, came under the directorship of Dr. Alexander Gode, and set out to create its own language, which was published in 1950 and given the name Interlingua.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interlingua is even more quintessentially Romance that Occidental, and in its turn attracted away many of the remaining adherents of Occidental, which tried to stave off the inevitable by renaming itself &amp;quot;Interlingue.&amp;quot; But again its creator really had no interest in resolving communications problems; he himself stated that his real purpose was to provide the world with a &amp;quot;standard average European&amp;quot; vocabulary, culled from the Romance languages. Interlingua made modest inroads in the American press&#039;s coverage of attempts to solve the language problem through the fifties and early sixties, and there exists a small Interlingua movement, mainly in Europe, even today; but the language never had the widespread support that Esperanto developed even in its earliest years. Its one notable success was in giving the coup de grace to Occidental, whose last magazine bit the dust in 1985.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To recap the situations of these various languages today:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Volapk is a dead issue and has been for the better part of a century. It is not and has not ever been represented by any kind of corpus of literature.&lt;br /&gt;
# Esperanto continues to grow, and today boasts at least two million speakers, perhaps more, of whom some one hundred thousand actively use the language and participate in the movement to promote the language. Some 150 to 200 periodicals appear regularly in the language, not counting local club bulletins. It has a large and growing body of literature, both original and translated.&lt;br /&gt;
# Ido retains a small movement and several periodicals to link that movement, though none of them seem to appear more often than quarterly. It has a very small body of original and translated literature.&lt;br /&gt;
# Occidental is dead.&lt;br /&gt;
# Basic English as a separate language is dead.&lt;br /&gt;
# Interlingua has a small relict supporting movement, mainly in Europe. It has few if any periodicals, and no body of original literature to speak of.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although Interlingua is not the only postwar entry into the international language competition, it is the only one to receive any publicity and to generate a supporting movement of any size. And it is a product of the year 1950. It appears that, to a great extent, the production of such languages peaked in the 1930&#039;s, and went largely out of style after the Second World War. Why?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would tend to blame the apparent &amp;quot;success&amp;quot; of English for this. The War gave French, already in decline, a deathblow, and by about 1950 it was apparent that English was destined to become the international language, by default. So what need for Esperanto, Interlingua, Ido, and other entries into the competition? The outcome was already decided. The other postwar projects -- the Romanids, Neos, Intals, Loglans, etc. -- were doomed to obscurity. Esperanto survived this period, and even prospered to some degree, not because people saw it as the coming world language (though there were those who never lost this hope) but because (a) it had already developed an independent infrastructure that could keep it going even through the most difficult periods -- as Soviet Esperantists proved during the period from 1937 to 1956 -- and (b) it had already developed other reasons for existence besides as a solution to the world language problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But the success of English has always been more apparent than real. The growth of English in the intervening period carried the language from 11% of the world&#039;s population to about 8.5% -- not the most inspiring rate of growth. Where English has failed, of course, we have tended to blame local conditions for this, or to assume that this failure is non-representative of the world as a whole -- as when, for instance, after a hundred years of concentrated English teaching has not produced a nation of English-speakers in Japan, we insist that &amp;quot;improved teaching methods&amp;quot; would no doubt resolve this problem, or when columnist Neal Peirce, supporting California&#039;s English-only initiative, insists that we tend to retreat from English in this country &amp;quot;while the rest of the world stampedes to English.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Forty five years after the end of World War II it is, I think, apparent to anyone that if English has not failed as THE international language, it has certainly come nowhere near fulfilling all those promises that were made for it at that time. Nor is it likely to do so in the foreseeable future, even granting continued U.S. military and economic primacy in the world -- a very unlikely possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Which means that the whole question of the international language is open again. It means that the Esperanto movement, barring the sort of deliberate repression we&#039;ve seen from time to time in Russia and China and Rumania and Germany and elsewhere, will prosper anew. Indeed, it has been doing so since the mid-seventies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And it means that, in the field of artificial languages, Esperanto may begin to see some aspiring competitors spring up. In fact, those competitors are already here. In 1972, an Englishman, Leslie Jones, published his Eurolengo, a basically Romance language based on English and Spanish. A young French teacher made the pages of the Guardian in Britain (favorably) with his Uropi. Two summers ago, several Esperanto clubs in this country received letters from a young man developing a project he called Linguos. Loglan, a product of the late fifties which made the pages of Scientific American in June, 1960, has recently been revived in two different forms. And just the other day the ELNA Central Office received a booklet, mostly in German, about a new Romance-based project called Unitario.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these projects has, at least in this country, received the sort of publicity that panicked Esperantists in the early fifties when Interlingua appeared. A recent article on Lojban (a schismatic variant of Loglan) that was picked up by the wire services and published in many newspapers around the country, appears to have been less than enthusiastic about the language; with the exception of Uropi, none of the others listed above have even been mentioned in the American press.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But I think that we will hear more of them -- and others like them -- in the future. And much of what we hear, as was the case with Ido and Occidental and Interlingua, will not be why they are ideal solutions to the problem of communication between different peoples, but why they are superior to Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are they superior to Esperanto? Probably so, at least on their own terms. Ido was superior to Esperanto in its adherence to West European linguistic norms. Occidental was superior to Esperanto in its similarity to other Western languages. Interlingua was certainly superior to Esperanto as a quintessential Romance language. And if what you wanted was a watered-down form of English, Basic English certainly filled the bill better than Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Esperanto&#039;s own terms -- facility of learning, cultural and political neutrality -- none of these languages was in any way superior to Esperanto, nor even equal to it. The same can be said, I think, about recent and future projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mentioned projects fall basically into two categories, from what I have seen of them, Eurolengo, Uropi, Linguos and Unitario appear to be fundamentally what we may call Euroclones, like Occidental and Interlingua. The designers of these languages, apparently unfamiliar with the work of De Wahl, Jespersen and Gode, are making the same mistakes again -- assuming that the world will best be served, and will let itself be served, by an artificial language with nothing to recommend it but its Europeanness. They don&#039;t realize that if this is what the world wants, it is more likely to learn Spanish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan and its offshoot Lojban fall into quite a different category. Of the mentioned languages, they have been getting the most publicity. But it should be noted that no language as a priori in its origins as Loglan has ever succeeded in generating a body of speakers. To add to Loglan&#039;s difficulties, it was originally created as a means of testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (now largely discredited), and for this reason its author claims to have made it as far from ordinary linguistic patterns as he could. This may be a fine way of establishing an experiment, but for purposes of communication it&#039;s a non-starter. Loglan will most likely go the way of Barnett&#039;s Suma; a few years from now, if you want to learn about it, you will probably be able to get a book out the state library, but nowhere else will any information be available.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto remains the only truly viable artificial international language: easy to learn, relatively neutral, with a wide base of cultural and practical services for the user to call on around the world. Of all the artificial languages extant today, only Esperanto is, not the result of an attempt to create a language, but the result of an attempt to solve a problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And only Esperanto lives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds (actually not very much): Funny, I thought Don Oldenburg&#039;s article was quite favorable towards the language (and so did he), though I&#039;ll admit that the headlines used in some newspapers could be taken as satirical. Certainly the amount of print space given the language was quite significant. But a good news story reports facts rather than conveys enthusiasm, so I can understand Don not finding much enthusiasm therein.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;In Esperanto&#039;s own terms -- facility of learning, cultural and political neutrality -- none of these languages was in any way superior to Esperanto, nor even equal to it.&amp;quot; - This invites all kinds of disagreement. Facility of learning is of course an open question. Esperanto probably has better teaching materials at the moment because of 100 years to develop them; probably many of the other languages proposed would be equally easy to learn. As to cultural neutrality, Don admits early on that Esperanto derives its lexical materials from European languages. Even if Sapir-Whorf is true, it is likely that a language&#039;s word-stock has far more overt ties to culture than does grammar. Don has (in letters to us) written about the ideology held by Esperantists - a language with an ideology is the antithesis of politically neutrality. The goal of being a world language is itself inherently political; some cultures will view such a concept as a threat. Lojban&#039;s goals as a whole are basically non-political; international language aspects are a side-benefit rather than a primary goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(In one letter to Dr. Brown, Don actually criticizes us for not having an underlying ethic other than ensuring clear communication - a purely linguistic goal. Apparently Don doesn&#039;t realize that a non-linguistic ethic is inherently a cultural bias. If Esperanto has such an underlying ethic, it is false to claim that it is culturally neutral without demonstrating that the ethic is universally accepted in all cultures - an unlikely prospect.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Of all the artificial languages extant today, only Esperanto is, not the result of an attempt to create a language, but the result of an attempt to solve a problem.&amp;quot; - Don says this right after saying that Lojban was designed to test the &#039;untestable&#039; Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which was &#039;discredited&#039; primarily because it was untestable (which is obviously bad science). Testing an untestable hypothesis as important as Sapir-Whorf sounds like an attempt to solve a problem to me. So is developing a speakable language with an unambiguous syntax, as well as developing an a priori language that removes constraints on thought rather than imposing them (as all other attempts I know of tried). There are other problems in the world relevant to language besides the one Esperanto is associated with.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;And only Esperanto lives.&amp;quot; - A nice slogan, but questionable at best. Don seems to base this on the existence of an original literature. (By most other standards of &#039;living&#039; Don mentions in his article, at least Interlingua would be considered &#039;alive&#039;, if sick-a-bed.) Michael Helsem seems to be on the road to matching the entire original literary production of Ido and Volapk before Lojban has a single fluent speaker, and I know of at least two or three others that have more than contemplated literary efforts in Lojban, but either want to acquire more skill before trying or (in at least one case) are waiting for people who can read the language without translating it first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Two Essays by Andy Hilgartner ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Andy is interested in anybody&#039;s comments on these papers, which are tangential to Lojban, but are definitely tied to logic and language. You can also write to him for more information; indicate whether you have any familiarity with the theory called &#039;General Semantics&#039;. We also have copies of a couple of his papers, including one inspired by his contact with Lojban, available at the special-order price of 15c/page. Andy&#039;s address is: 254 Kensington Place, Marion OH 43302, and his phone is (614) 389-4595.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
STATEMENT OF INTENT&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I ASSERT that the patterns by which we and our ancestors for the past several thousand years have lived have now failed us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my view, these patterns center on the lived assumption that &amp;quot;I already know how things REALLY ARE&amp;quot; -- the perhaps unspoken, even unrecognized, pretense to &amp;quot;absolute certainty,&amp;quot; with a consequent unwillingness to re-examine and revise &amp;quot;what I thought I knew.&amp;quot; From that lived assumption follows a certain quarrelsomeness: If I already know &amp;quot;how things really are,&amp;quot; and you express a view which differs from mine, I will find your PROVOCATIVE BEHAVIOR a THREAT to my AUTHORITY. And if I cannot persuade, manipulate or coerce you to revise what you say so it matches what I ALREADY KNOW, I may take steps to defend my own TRUTHS by suppressing your mistaken OPINIONS -- or may even set out to suppress YOU. And the means of suppressing YOU range from verbal putdowns, to fisticuffs, to murder, war and genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Today, we know how to use cosmic forces (such as nuclear fission and fusion -- A-bombs and H-bombs) to defend our &amp;quot;absolute certainties.&amp;quot; Under these conditions, I assert, those lived assumptions which lead us to pretend to &amp;quot;absolute certainty&amp;quot; have outlived their usefulness. To persist in relying on them will, I predict, lead us into species suicide and extinction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I DECLARE the possibility of intentionally revising our lived assumptions. We can re-build these patterns we live by so that we live not from the practice of defending our presumed &amp;quot;absolute certainties&amp;quot; (or from what I call self-defending), but rather, from the practice of testing our own guesses (which I call self-correcting).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, I declare that we humans now have it within our grasp to produce a fundamental, principled, conscious, and deliberate revision of the structure of human social transacting. For example, we can build up social patterns with which to replace our non-viable social institutions: the self-defeating or self-eliminating aspects of our dealings with ourselves, and the self-defending patterns in what we now call &amp;quot;nuclear family,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;friendship,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;social group,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;corporation,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;local government,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nation-state.&amp;quot; We can come to recognize our patterned dealings with the-human-species-as-a-whole. And, having built up these newer, potentially viable patterns, we have it within our grasp to replace the older, non-viable patterns with the newer ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I PROMISE to catalyze this revision of the fundamental lived assumptions of the humans species so that, by the year 2007, we have put the new patterns into use planet-wide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And I REQUEST your direct and immediate participation in this project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
C. A. Hilgartner, MD&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Course of Development of a Theory ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The theoretical system developed by our research group demonstrably and verifiably opens up a new domain of human knowledge. As of this date, it amounts to approximately 50 person-years of innovative work. In the following four pages, let me tell you something about the background, the increasing rigor, and the further promise of this inquiry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1963, the work has gone through at least three distinct developmental stages:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A) My earliest paper on this topic (1963) presents a theory of human behavior, stated in ordinary scientific English, but based on known premises which no one else had successfully used in this way. In a paper presented before the International Conference on General Semantics in 1965, I extended this theory of human behavior into the arena of large social institutions. Also, I made logical claims for the doctrine: self-consistency, and parsimony. When I gave the paper, I found myself applauded rather than shot down.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But, while still at that conference, I came to an uncomfortable insight: I recognized that at that time, no one had yet specified the relations between logical assumptions and grammar for even one discursive language. That means that any discursive language remains in the role of &amp;quot;a language of unknown structure.&amp;quot; Further, I recognized that one cannot know a doctrine better than one knows the language in which one states the doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, my theory lacked rigor -- as long as I left it stated only in a discursive language such as English, I could not back up logical claims made for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I left that conference determined to perform a logical analysis of my doctrine, and to state it as an axiomatic system in a mathematical language of known structure. I intended to satisfy myself as to whether one could in fact back up the logical claims I had made for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B) Working with John F. Randolph, then Fayerweather Professor of Mathematics at the University of Rochester, I succeeded in doing the required logical analysis. We wrote four long papers which utilized an algebraic set theory notation -- the very paradigm of &amp;quot;a mathematical language of known structure&amp;quot; -- to put the doctrine into the form of an axiomatic system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At that point, we had something really new: a logically rigorous and empirically testable theory which comprehensively accounts for how a human deals with himself, with his non-living environment, with other humans and (in principle) with other species&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To call the theory comprehensive means that one can use it to study &amp;quot;happenings&amp;quot; on any level of interest, from that of molecular structure -- e.g. the structure of heme molecules with various possible side chains, only a few of which have a shape that will allow the ring to combine with divalent iron so as to form the active center of a hemoglobin molecule -- up to that of how the human species as a whole gains its living in the biosphere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1969, the Journal of Theoretical Biology printed three of these four papers. That, too, created something of a stir -- we received more than 1200 requests for reprints of one or more of these papers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, I had what mathematicians refer to as a &amp;quot;new toy&amp;quot; -- an empty form composed of empty set theory symbols, devised originally to account for the behaving-and-experiencing of individuals -- and I set about finding out what else it could do. I successfully applied it to a number of topics: small group phenomena; large social systems; biological theory. I even made some trespassing ventures into the physical sciences. Eventually, I began using it to focus on the topic of the foundations of logic and mathematics. And at that point (Fall 1971), I began developing another uncomfortable insight.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
C) The difficulty centered about a possible contradiction between the &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; of the theory and the notation in which I expressed this &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; -- a collision between central premises. To express this difficulty, I will need to state the setting (&amp;quot;universe of discourse&amp;quot;) for the developing theory, its central tenet, and the contrary of this central tenet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# I can express the setting for this developing theory by means of a run-on phrase such as an-organism-as-a-whole-dealing-with-its-environment-at-a-date. When one defines a notational theory on a setting, one restricts discussion to the topics which fit onto that setting -- thereby preventing oneself from unknowingly getting off the subject.&lt;br /&gt;
# I can express the central tenet of the developing theory in terms of the construct of an organism making a distinction or discrimination -- expressible by a sentence such as &amp;quot;This IS NOT that!&amp;quot; In a world of ceaseless change (&amp;quot;at-a-date&amp;quot;), this sentence appears valid in general.&lt;br /&gt;
# To express the contrary of this tenet requires the construct of our organism not-making a distinction, expressible by a sentence such as &amp;quot;This IS that!&amp;quot; In a world of change, this sentence appears never valid. Indeed, by the common definition of the term mistake (Old Norse, &amp;quot;to take wrongly&amp;quot;), whenever an organism non-verbally TAKES some non-verbal this as if it WERE some other non-verbal that, he makes a mistake.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me paraphrase these simple-sounding phrases into more pretentious logical terminology: Where, in dealing with his environment, an organism non-verbally TREATS this as if it were that, in effect he posits the identity of this and that -- he errs fundamentally; where he non-verbally distinguishes between them, he posits their non-identity -- in that respect, he does not err.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then the central postulate of the developing theory requires that, on this setting, we disallow the construct of identity (or the binary relation of identical with) in any guise of form, explicit or tacit. In the developing frame of reference, the construct of identical with has no usage except to designate situations in which somebody makes a mistake. In discrediting the construct of identity, I explicitly extend the designated realm of error to include the case in which our organism posits the identity of this with this (or of A with itself). The construct of self-identity conceals the claim that we KNOW what we have perceived and designated as A -- knowledge we do not and cannot have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To take the rejection of identity as one&#039;s central postulate does not lead to paralysis or aphasia. Instead, it strips away the pretense to delusional &amp;quot;knowledge,&amp;quot; leaving us ready to act on our assumptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this central tenet MIGHT contradict the modern logical axiom of identity, which states, &amp;quot;For all x that belong to the delimited domain D, x is identical with x.&amp;quot; Thus, in the mathematical theory of sets, one cannot dispense with the construct of identity: for, by postulate, every set qualifies as identical with itself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hence, I feared, there might exist or arise a contradiction between what my theory SAYS and the notation in which it says it. At this point, I can prove that such a contradiction does arise; then, however, I could only sense it as possible and feel sick to the stomach over it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually (Christmas 1971) I concluded that, so long as I continued using the mathematical theory of sets, I left myself no way of avoiding or otherwise handling that possible contradiction. So I resolved to abandon set theory, and all other formalized or discursive languages from the Western Indo-European (WIE) tradition, and to devise my own.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To shorten an already-lengthy story, in the spring of 1972, I made a fundamental discovery. It concerns the assumptions encoded, within WIE languages such as English or set theory, in the grammatical distinction between noun and verb. Briefly, we tell the nouns from the verbs by regarding any noun as identical with itself, and regarding no verb as identical with itself. By the same token, we regard that which we designate by a noun as also self-identical (really existing, persisting, static-and-unchanging), and that which we designate by a verb as also not-self-identical (somehow transient). In the WIE pattern, one obtains a &amp;quot;complete sentence&amp;quot; or a &amp;quot;well-formed formula&amp;quot; by placing at least one noun or noun-phrase next to at least one verb or verb-phrase. Thus, regardless of our intentions, regardless of whether we noticed or not, every time we form a complete sentence in a WIE discursive language or a well-formed formula from a notational language, we posit at least one static-and-unchanging &amp;quot;thing&amp;quot; which enters into more or less transient &amp;quot;relations.&amp;quot; In other words, by utilizing the grammar of the WIE languages, we ACT as if, independent of any observer, that which exists independent of any observer has a structure identical with that of the grammar of the WIE languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This discovery opened the way toward the development of the desired non-WIE formalized language. I found a way to disallow the hidden assumption I had disclosed, and by means of a small number of explicit logical steps, to derive a grammar from by chosen premises.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This too constituted a new development. Humans had never before had a DERIVED grammar to play with, only inherited, traditional ones; although the works of Edward Sapir and Benjamin Lee Whorf predict or foreshadow this development.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
About then I started collaborating with the linguist Ronald V. Harrington of the University of Rochester. On this derived grammar we developed a &amp;quot;Let&#039;s keep track of what we say&amp;quot; language, analogous to set theory but fundamentally different in structure. As one way it differs from set theory and other traditional WIE notational languages, the developing notation systematically takes into account the observer. In this notation, one finds it impossible to make a statement except from the point of view of &amp;quot;an-observer-observing-the-observed.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subsequently, we extended the notation, and &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# translated the findings of the set theory calculus of human behaving-and-experiencing into the new notation, obtaining a general theory of social systems;&lt;br /&gt;
# developed a &amp;quot;numbering theory,&amp;quot; a &amp;quot;personal geometry&amp;quot;, and a &amp;quot;notational physics with physicists in it&amp;quot;;&lt;br /&gt;
# provided evidence suggesting that we humans can now encompass the physical, biological and human psycho-social sciences within a single frame of reference, based on a single set of postulates. This possibility seems to me to exceed the dreams of the seekers after a unified field theory in physics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the very least, the new frame of reference gives us an unfamiliar standpoint from which to view, and re-think, human concerns. That alone warrants studying it with care.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
from Ralph Dumain &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;on Sapir-Whorf Discussions at LogFest 89, and other topics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t recall having taken detailed notes at last year&#039;s Logfest, hence I was worried at not being able to recollect the discussion sufficiently to be able to write up my own version of the Sapir-Whorf debate. I was hoping that the other participants&#039; reports in the newsletter would either suffice or help to jog my memory. Of course, these reports were published last year, so my memory now requires drastic jogging for me to be able to remember the discussion. At the moment my memory is extremely vague, so forgive factual errors on my part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can only remember that I saw the light bulb go off in at least one person&#039;s head -- Athelstan&#039;s perhaps -- meaning that I convinced one or more of you that you have to refine your conception of exactly what &amp;quot;Whorfian effects&amp;quot; you anticipate finding and how to construct an adequately defined and controlled test. I was disappointed by pc, however, who stuck fast to his ill-informed notion that metaphysical bias resides in the grammatical categories, and that one should commence a Sapir-Whorf experiment based on that assumption. I believe I stressed then, and remind you now, that meaningful experiments require that the variables be controlled. Not only that, one must know what the variables are. In comparing Lojban to any natural language, there are not only several variables involved, but the significance of those variables and their relation to hidden variables may be problematic. Suppose it turns out, for example, that languages vary greatly in a given set of surface-level grammatical features but prove not to have any significant difference at the deep-structural level. In that case, the surface differences would be deceptive and should not even be compared one-to-one, but rather the structures of the entire grammatical systems and their semantic interpretations would have to be investigated, understood, and compared. The level at which pc is thinking is but a shallow caricature of scientific method.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aside from reconstructing my own version of last year&#039;s discussion, which I could still attempt to do with the prompting of others, I have nothing further to contribute on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis at this point. It is your move now, and if someone in the group can refine the Lojbanist conception of Sapir-Whorf and Lojban&#039;s relevance to it, then I am open to further discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think you will get very far based upon your current thinking about Sapir-Whorf. Rather than worrying yourself about metaphysical bias and the ways different languages supposedly limit what can be thought, it would be better simply to focus on what a more precise language can do. As with formal logic and mathematics, or Arabic numerals as compared to Roman numerals, it is possible to extend one&#039;s thinking beyond what one can normally do otherwise. This is not exactly Sapir-Whorf, but it is Lojban&#039;s only convincing selling point. The creation of a cognitive community that demands precise expression and provides a language for it is intriguing even if it does not attract research dollars. Precision and explicitness in communication, assuming that Lojban is workable in everyday social interaction, can further the expression of and maybe even the formulation of thoughts, and remove significant interpretive ambiguities and other difficulties on the part of the hearer. I say significant, because a lot of expressions that would confound a computer are easily interpreted without mistakes by humans. You once mentioned the issue of forcing assumptions on the listener. In those cases where such &amp;quot;assumptions&amp;quot; actually imply misinterpretation of meaning or intent, they could be removed by more exact expression. It should be understood, though, that those &amp;quot;assumptions&amp;quot; are not metaphysical except when the utterance itself involves ideological issues, in which case the conceptual bias is located in the terminology used in the utterance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for finally publishing my bibliography, after stalling for a year using the lamest excuses. The intent and viewpoint of my annotated bibliography were clearly stated, hence there never was a question of misleading the reader. Both the references and my comments help to communicate to the reader just how many factors and subdisciplines are involved in dealing with the issue of the relationship between language and thought. Now that the readers know the different things that need to be considered, they can take it from there. Since I lack the time now to take care of it, it would help you to find a linguist who could find up-to-date information on advances in linguistic theory since the early 1970s that bear upon clarification of the relation of language to cognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The closest I have come to dealing with linguistics in a long time was attending a linguistics conference here in December. I queried a couple of friends about the current state of linguistic theory, who were rather cynical. They did not feel, however, that any given school of thought was being discriminated against in terms of research funding; the politics is more personal than doctrinal. The book exhibit was overwhelming; there is more going on than anyone can assimilate -- books on syntax, discourse analysis, you name it -- it&#039;s hard to get a grip on. I saw the new book that Mouton has published on interlinguistics (i.e. international planned languages like Esperanto), but it was too expensive to buy even at a discount. There were 6 books in a series on the DLT project, the machine translation system that uses Esperanto as the interlanguage. With two other books I know about, that makes 8 books in all. One of those books includes articles about other machine translation projects, including one that uses the purportedly logical Indian language Aymara as its interlanguage!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few comments on articles in your recent newsletters. The lengthy article that compares Lojban to Esperanto struck me as much to-do about nothing, as no Esperantist today believes that his language only has 16 rules. That was used at one time as a propaganda device by careless people, but I think people are more thoughtful nowadays, at least on that point. Anyway, it is necessary to understand the historical origin of the &amp;quot;16 rules.&amp;quot; They are not descriptive but prescriptive. They came from the effort to put and end to the constant attempts at reforming the grammar that people who are never satisfied with the form of Esperanto or any other planned language kept attempting to make. Adopted as part of the &amp;quot;Fundamento,&amp;quot; the 16 rules declared those easily describable, non-negotiable, mandatory features of the language. Together with a basic lexicon and a set of examples illustrating the language in use (including syntactic features not explicitly described elsewhere), the &amp;quot;16 rules&amp;quot; formed the Fundamento. Of course, Esperanto like all other languages contains thousands of syntactic rules, some of which are captured in prescriptive grammars, and many more of which the speakers are unconscious. Esperanto is learned as other languages are learned, without complete formal grammars at hand, and non-Europeans do not have to learn an Indo-European language before they learn Esperanto, any more than they would have to learn French before they could learn English. Also, Esperanto can borrow words from any language, not just European ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the alleged non-competition between Esperanto and Lojban. They are non-competitive if Lojbanists refrain from pushing Lojban as an international language, since the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is of no concern to Esperanto. However, the minute someone makes a claim for a new international language, several issues arise. Anyone coming forth with a new language who looks like a crackpot automatically discredits the international language movement in the eyes of the public, hence Esperantists have a stake in the matter. In the past, this means that somebody hides in their attic for 15 years creating a language, self-publishes a little book describing his new language, and announces in a press conference that he has just created the now world language. It is one thing to have a hobby, it is another to make bombastic proclamations that one&#039;s creation (whether of a language, a new monetary system, or any utopian scheme) will change the world when the lack of social realism is so obvious to all. Those kind of people are obvious cranks, and hence they compromise Esperanto whenever they claim that they have concocted a new world language, as if the adoption of an international language were some kind of magic. Hence Esperantists have justifiably reacted negatively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, I do not claim that Lojban/Lojban is guilty of this extreme behavior. The Washington Post article did not cast Lojban in such a light. You have not yet claimed Lojban to be the future international language. But you have already resorted to dubious propaganda in order to make yourself look good and Esperanto bad.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You suggest that, as Lojban is a superior engineering effort than Esperanto, it can quickly catch up even though Esperanto has a century-long head start. The creators of Ido also thought they were superior language engineers, and where are they today? There are social, political and economic reasons why no planned language, Esperanto or otherwise, has been universally adopted, and those obstacles cannot be surmounted by the most able of engineers. Here the narrow, blinkered mentality of the computer specialist is so painfully evident.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is also the supposed cultural neutrality of Lojban that makes it superior to Esperanto. But Lojban has not only neutrality, but cultural nullity. Esperanto had social roots (and still does today) in the circumstances of late 19th century Eastern Europe, and in spite of the provinciality of the Warsaw Ghetto, Zamenhof and Esperanto still managed to attract the admiration and loyalty of people throughout the world. The European &amp;quot;bias&amp;quot; of Esperanto&#039;s grammar is a non-issue, as that is the part of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis that has been thoroughly discredited. The European lexicon of the Esperanto language is advantageous to technologically oriented non-Europeans, though it may ideologically repulse others. But the speech community of Esperanto is most diverse, whereas the community of Lojban is extremely uniform and narrow -- computer nerds, sci-fi buffs, people interested in logic and semantics -- not much of a basis for an international culture, and certainly not an ideologically neutral or even divers culture. Esperantists, in spite of the European bias of their language&#039;s lexicon, have risked and even sacrificed their lives in fighting racism and fascism; no Lojbanist I know would ever make such a sacrifice.&lt;br /&gt;
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What is most irritating is misusing facts in order to support misleading generalizations. I accept as truthful the statement that while sitting next to the Esperanto booth at a sci-fi convention, you did not overhear the Esperantists speaking Esperanto to one another. You dishonestly suggest by that example that Esperantists are not even accustomed to speaking the very language they are advertising to others. What hypocrisy, in light of the fact that Esperanto conversation has been going on for a century in the most diverse of circumstances, while no Loglan/ Lojban conversation in the context of any normal social interaction has ever taken place! I too have staffed an Esperanto booth upon occasion, and I too have only used English to speak to my fellow American Esperantist booth-mates, because it is basically an English-speaking environment, and I do not generally speak Esperanto in an English-speaking setting although I am perfectly capable of speaking the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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So it seems that in spite of your lip service to non-competition, you are already pitting Lojban against Esperanto in a competitive fashion, and you have also resorted to duplicity in doing so. Under those circumstances, you cannot realistically expect amicable relations between Lojban and the Esperanto movement. You know that I do not tolerate dishonest propaganda on the part of Esperantists, as evidenced by my disagreements with Don Harlow. I surely am not going to let the young upstarts of Lojban get away with any nonsense, especially when they are highly educated people who claim to be able to use their language in order to improve their thinking and their world view.&lt;br /&gt;
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I enclose a photocopy of a commentary on Loglan/Lojban from Rick Harrison&#039;s The Alembic. I pass this along for the completeness of your archives, not to torment you. Mark Tierisch&#039;s reasoning leaves something to be desired in many parts of this article. Although this article makes Esperanto look good in comparison to Loglan, its reasoning doesn&#039;t hold up, especially since Esperanto like all other languages has a lot more than 30 grammatical rules, let alone 16. The only place where I unequivocally agree with Tierisch is where he refers to Loglan as not culturally neutral but as a reflection of the &amp;quot;culture of nerds.&amp;quot; The disparaging term &amp;quot;nerd&amp;quot; is hardly necessary, but the description accurately pinpoints the subcultural basis (and hence metaphysical bias) of Lojban: science fiction and computer buffs and the like.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds on a couple of items - I&#039;m not going to discuss all of Ralph&#039;s points - I&#039;ll leave that to the community, especially the discussion on Sapir-Whorf. Suffice it to say that I think Ralph makes some different assumptions than we do about what kind of useful information can be obtained by studying Lojban in a Sapir-Whorf context. For example, he makes comments about the possibility that all languages have a common &#039;deep structure&#039;. This may be so, but even if only surface structures are directly related to culture, it would be useful to confirm it. (If the only &#039;important&#039; features about a language&#039;s structure are in its &#039;deep structure&#039; and all language &#039;deep structures&#039; are the same, then Sapir-Whorf is claiming the nonsensical idea that all cultures are the same.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We of course do not consider that the Sapir-Whorf claim of a relationship between culture and a language&#039;s grammar has been &#039;discredited&#039;, as both Ralph and Don describe it. It is precisely that claim that Lojban is designed to test. Thus, a clear separation from European language structures is vital to Lojban&#039;s goals, and Esperanto&#039;s lack in this area is a primary reason for its unsuitability for our purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think Ralph has an incorrect view of the Lojban community. You are far more diverse than he claims. A large percentage are computer-literate, and many read science fiction, but not all; in any case, even those two categories define widely varied audiences. I can see that education is inherently a potential bias, but I challenge Ralph or anyone else to state actual metaphysical biases that are common to all members of either group, or to the Lojban community.&lt;br /&gt;
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To tie back to something I said regarding Don Harlow&#039;s writings, Lojban&#039;s metaphysical diversity can be shown by a wide diversity in political beliefs among the community. Within the Lojban community are sizeable numbers of libertarians, socialists, and anarchists, extremes of both the right and left, along with more mainstream political philosophies. It is an incomplete argument to infer metaphysics from politics, but I think it is a reasonable idea.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether most Lojbanists (the majority of whom probably oppose both racism and fascism) would die for their beliefs, I cannot say. At least some of our supporters are in the Armed Forces and are committed to die for their country if necessary. Ralph impugns the honor of these and other Lojbanists with his statements.&lt;br /&gt;
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I recognize that Esperanto has had its martyrs. One would hope that martyrdom is not a vital prerequisite to achieving an international language. One &#039;problem&#039; with martyrdom, is that, while it draws together the community associated with those who have died, that same strong feeling alienates those outside of the community, and causes them to misunderstand. Some may be drawn to a movement that people are willing to die for; others are repelled by the &#039;fanaticism&#039; that they perceive in such an attitude.&lt;br /&gt;
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In any event, fighting racism and fascism is not what Lojban is about, although I personally would hope that with increased understanding of other cultures that is possible through learning Lojban, people would find it more difficult to persecute those who differ from them.&lt;br /&gt;
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I will admit that any discussion of Esperanto and Lojban will lead to some comparisons. Our purpose in the articles was to blunt the validity of such comparisons. My statements about Esperanto do not claim that anything is &#039;wrong&#039; with it; I merely feel that Lojban is better designed for the purposes it is meant for than Esperanto is. But those purposes are different from Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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Only where we talk about the potential for Lojban as an international language is there even a basis for comparison. In this area, though, I stated that Lojban would have no significant role unless both a) Esperanto clearly fails as an international language and b) Lojban&#039;s other uses make it attractive as an international language. The international language goal is an incidental one for Lojban (though important to some among Lojbanists, including some who are also Esperantists). There is plenty of room for both languages to successfully achieve their goals.&lt;br /&gt;
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My point is that both languages can gain by cooperation rather than competition. An Esperantist is already more open to the possibilities that make Lojban interesting than a typical member of the non-Esperanto public. Similarly, a higher percentage of Lojbanists are aware of and interested in Esperanto than of the general public. If this commonalty can be harnessed, positive synergistic effects are likely.&lt;br /&gt;
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In this light, my comments about Esperanto being spoken at convention tables should be taken much more positively. I did not and do not claim that Esperantists cannot speak their language. Rather, I believe that the outside image of Esperanto as &#039;useful&#039; and &#039;important&#039; suffers when they do not and they can; Lojban will similarly suffer if Lojbanists do not use their language. My calling this situation to peoples&#039; attention, and saying that I plan to do differently, says nothing at all about the relative merits of the two languages. It was a friendly, and I thought constructive, criticism. (As an aside, Ralph is incorrect in stating that Lojban has not been used in &#039;normal&#039; social conversation. Extensive use, not yet - but surely within a year even this will have changed.)&lt;br /&gt;
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As a final note, Ralph&#039;s last reference is to an letter in The Alembic that was a diatribe against Lojban. In it, writer Tierisch (who hasn&#039;t ever been on our mailing list and is unlikely to know much about the language) compares Lojban&#039;s rules to Esperanto&#039;s 16 that we discussed last issue. Ralph mentions this, but just a few paragraphs earlier said &amp;quot;no Esperantist today believes that his language only has 16 rules. That was used at one time as a propaganda device by careless people, but I think people are more thoughtful nowadays, at least on that point.&amp;quot; Don Harlow said something similar. Apparently they are wrong. Perhaps the leaders of the Esperanto movement know the significance of the 16 rules, but the community of Esperantists as a whole may not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Tierisch&#039;s letter made many incorrect claims about the language and suggested that he felt threatened in some way by Lojban&#039;s ideas (perhaps in the way Ralph suggests Esperantists feel about &#039;crackpot&#039; language inventors). We wrote a reply, but The Alembic folded without printing another issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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My own feeling is that people should not feel threatened by ideas that differ from their own. I can understand that Esperantists dislike the &#039;guilt by association&#039; that comes from association with &#039;crackpots&#039;. But this is just part of the territory. People like playing with language and new invented &#039;languages&#039; will crop up all the time. Reacting by disparaging the inventor merely offends the inventor; it doesn&#039;t stop other inventors, nor helps Esperanto&#039;s image. I think there are better approaches.&lt;br /&gt;
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My main point here is that the positive effects possible if both of our efforts worked at promoting created languages in general, as well as our specific versions, instead of knocking at each other. The potential benefits of cooperation far exceed the benefits we can gain at each other&#039;s expense.&lt;br /&gt;
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from John Hodges:&lt;br /&gt;
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I took to heart your essay in JL11 that &amp;quot;there is no competition between E. and L., because their goals are different.&amp;quot; But I&#039;m not sure your argument succeeds.&lt;br /&gt;
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The goal of E. is to be an international language, to be &amp;quot;everybody&#039;s second language&amp;quot;. Notice that this is a global ambition, and implies that any other &amp;quot;second&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;international&amp;quot; language is a competitor. They have an established claim to this role, with 100 years of experience, 10,000 books, and 2,000,000 speakers (1990 World Almanac figure). Also some martyrs, persecuted by the Nazis and other militant nationalists.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has three major goals: 1) to be a research tool for scientific study into the relationships between language, thought, and culture - we hope that studies will prove that people think more flexibly and/or more logically in Lojban than in any other language; 2) to find computer applications, e.g. in artificial intelligence, human/machine interface, and machine translation; 3) to be an international language. (We welcome anyone to use it for anything, but these are the goals we had in mind during all those years of development.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Goals 1) and 2) are less-than-global ambitions, which genuinely do not challenge Esperanto. But your essay in JL11 keeps goal 3), which does. You soften it by saying that the challenge will not be a serious one for many years, and people should have their own choice on it, anyway. But it is still there, and there may be a practical conflict between goals 3) and 1).&lt;br /&gt;
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Goal 1) is to be a research tool for learning about language, and the relationships between language and thinking. To achieve our scientific goals, we want/need to gather a body of at least several hundred fluent L. speakers from a wide variety of linguistic and cultural backgrounds, who can participate in controlled studies. No doubt to get these, we will have to recruit and teach thousands.&lt;br /&gt;
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To gather such a varied body of speakers, we could translate our teaching materials into Chinese AND Hindi AND French AND Spanish AND so forth, or we could translate them into Esperanto, a relatively simple task. If we CAN recruit Esperantists, we should try to do so. But CAN we?&lt;br /&gt;
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It is clear what the Esperanto community can do for Lojban. But what does Lojban offer the Esperanto community? Why should they host our experiment, given the conflict implied by our goal 3)?&lt;br /&gt;
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One line of thought I have explored in recent days (many of my lines of thought are half-baked - I am asking for feedback). Perhaps we should explicitly make goal 3) conditional on prior success in goals 1) and/or 2), and commit to cooperation with the Esperanto community should the event arise.&lt;br /&gt;
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We begin by describing Lojban as &amp;quot;an experimental human language&amp;quot;. (I think this is true, anyway. I expect that our first five years of use will show us changes we want to make, when our 5-year baseline expires.) We point out that carrying a Lojban textbook written in Esperanto book in E. book services will hardly threaten the spread of E.; it is just one more cultural opportunity that opens up if you learn E.&lt;br /&gt;
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If the L. experiments to test Sapir-Whorf show that, as we hope, people think more flexibly and/or more logically in Lojban than in any other language, OR IF future computers still find transcribing/parsing/translating Esperanto to be beyond them, while Lojban is translated with ease, THEN AND ONLY THEN will the question arise of whether to trade in Esperanto for a newer model. By hosting our experiment, the E. movement will have stuffed the ranks of L-speakers with Esperantists, assuring them the loudest possible voice in the future development of Lojban Mark II.&lt;br /&gt;
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Carrying the thought further... How much good would such a voice do them? English speakers have suggested deriving the gismu from English alone; this is still a rotten idea if the favored language is Esperanto. Lojbanized gismu do not resemble their source words closely enough. Even if pure source words are used for gismu, they float in a sea of cmavo that makes the result incomprehensible to speakers of the source language. Lojban is just too radically different. But current Lojban has rules of spelling and word-formation designed so that today&#039;s computers, with PRIMITIVE abilities at pattern-recognition, could transcribe and parse spoken Lojban correctly. The abilities of future computers may allow us to relax those rules. (neural nets, optoelctronics, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
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For the rationale above to work, Lojban Mark II would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. SO- hypothetical question, for 10 to 20 years hence - if we wished to make a language with predicate grammar, and accommodating the limits of computers of the time. and as compatible as possible with Esperanto, how close could we come? Could, e.g., the prefixes and suffixes of Esperanto substantially replace to cmavo? Could all brivla have only one or two places, mimicking conventional parts of speech, with the remaining places added using lexeme BAI? Could we seriously imagine making a Lojban Mark II that was a superset of Esperanto, so that existing E. speakers and books would remain compatible? Or perhaps one that was designed to make conversion from Esperanto as easy as possible?&lt;br /&gt;
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I am out of my depth here. But if we are to seriously recruit among Esperantists, we may have to commit in advance to something like this, provided the experiments show Lojban Mark II to be a worthwhile effort. Then again, perhaps these thoughts are way off base, and the future of Lojban does not lie in recruiting Esperantists. Are we, ultimately, competitors after all?&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds - John stated the &#039;flaw&#039; in my competition argument better than anyone else, but I still stand by what I said above, that both languages can co-exist without competition between them. There are some hidden assumptions behind a deduced &#039;unavoidable&#039; competition based on John&#039;s logic.&lt;br /&gt;
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The most important flawed assumption is natural for most Americans: that for one language to be &#039;everyone&#039;s second language&#039;, there can be no other international language. For monolingual Americans, learning a second language seems onerous enough - why would anyone want to learn two &#039;international languages&#039;?&lt;br /&gt;
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Simple. One learns different languages for different purposes. Languages are tools for communication; you use the best tool available for the communications job at hand. By this argument, of course, Don Harlow is right in using English to talk to another English speaker, and Esperanto when he wants to talk to someone who doesn&#039;t know English as well as they know Esperanto. (Which I agree with in general, making exceptions for the times when the language is on display for outsiders, or when a particular educational purpose would be served.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Especially if Lojban proves Sapir-Whorf true to any extent at all, someone learning Lojban will think differently (and perhaps &#039;better&#039; by some standard) than if they know only Esperanto or their native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no problem recruiting Esperantists. They have the same range of interests as any other group of similar size. In fact, Esperantists are a fertile recruiting ground because they are already interested in language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some Esperantists will find the design goals of Lojban, or specific design features, worthy enough for them to further study the language. Then, when they know more, they can decide to study both languages or to just study one. John&#039;s argument is flawed here; he assumes that, because the goal for Esperanto is to become &amp;quot;everyone&#039;s second language&amp;quot;, every Esperantist holds that goal as a nirvana that they cannot turn away from.&lt;br /&gt;
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But Esperanto is not likely to achieve its purpose within our lifetimes. So many Esperantists will be interested in the language that offers them more personal gratification within their lifetime. Some will find this in Lojban; possibly others in some other language. Many, perhaps even most, will concentrate on Esperanto, or will work with Esperanto and Lojban. For these, Esperanto provides the immediate satisfaction of a large speaker population with which to communicate, while Lojban presents a peculiar intellectual challenge that may at some later time prove more rewarding. There is no competition implicit in our existence for such people.&lt;br /&gt;
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An Esperantist who denies the value of learning other languages is as close-minded as the nationalists that oppose Esperanto. Some will be this way, and that is their right. But far more valuable to both Esperanto and Lojban would be cooperation between the two groups. Undoubtedly, Lojban will attract a lot of people that would not be interested in Esperanto (as Ralph says, computer people and other scientists, and science fiction readers, are a natural audience for Lojban). Some of these may not find Lojban to their liking (too different, too small a speaker base, etc.), and may proceed onward to discover Esperanto. The reverse will be true among Esperanto recruits. By having information on both languages available, people can make an informed choice as to which language serves their interests.&lt;br /&gt;
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A side benefit results. A cooperative, open, attitude is presented to the public. This attitude ameliorates the impression that international linguists are fanatical idealists, an impression that turns off a lot of people. Our relaxed attitude towards international language success has not only reduced Lojban&#039;s &#039;threat&#039; to Esperanto, it has calmed the portion of the Lojban community that opposes the idealistic &#039;world language&#039; effort.&lt;br /&gt;
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Incidentally, one member of our original class here in the DC-area, Paul Francis O&#039;Sullivan, is a lifetime member of the local Esperanto chapter. He finds no conflict in working with both languages and is translating the brochure into Esperanto for us. (Reviewers are welcome to volunteer.) Jamie Bechtel, our first Lojban &#039;creative writer&#039;, is also an Esperantist, as is poet Michael Helsem. Numerous others, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are gaining cooperation from Esperantists. Bruce Arne Sherwood, a &#039;big name&#039; in Esperanto, taught courses and wrote articles comparing Loglan and Esperanto in the early 1980&#039;s, and carried on a lengthy correspondence with pc to ensure that the facts were right. No animosity or competition was evidenced. Mike Urban, an Esperantist known for developing MacIntosh Hypercard teaching software for Esperanto (and one of the Worldcon table representatives), has advised us on some technical points of Esperanto, as well as on teaching software. Etc.&lt;br /&gt;
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We cannot test Sapir-Whorf based on teaching the language through Esperanto. If all of the target population spoke Esperanto as well as Lojban, there would be no way to separate effects of the two languages from each other. We must use monolingual speakers who learn Lojban as their first non-native language, or better, bilinguals raised speaking Lojban and their native language from birth. In this way, Sapir-Whorf effects would be least hidden by uncontrolled variables (a problem mentioned by Ralph that we are indeed concerned with).&lt;br /&gt;
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As for Lojban Mark II, I doubt if it will happen. If there are changes after 5 years, they will be minor, evolutionary ones. That is why we are forcing the 5-year period, to ensure that inertia keeps the language stable.&lt;br /&gt;
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People in the Loglan community are tired of learning a changing target. Regardless of how flawed Dr. Brown&#039;s versions of Loglan are, the Lojban development would never have been conceived of, much less completed, if not for Brown&#039;s intellectual property claims that forced us to work from outside rather than within the Institute.&lt;br /&gt;
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If Lojban does evolve in new ways, the speakers will be the ones who decide, as John suggests. If the speakers are Esperantists, some of the underlying concepts of Esperanto will find their way into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, as John points out, Lojban and any natural language are too different. Lojban is also too different from Esperanto to offer significant pattern matching. A predicate language is too unlike an Indo-European grammar, or anything that can even be described like an Indo-European grammar. If you rule out changing all the words once again (a relearning burden that would be unacceptably high - as anyone who has used LogFlash with both Institute Loglan and Lojban words can testify), there simply isn&#039;t that much that is worth changing. (It is also possible that to make such changes would destroy whatever there is about Lojban that makes it worth &#039;trading in&#039; for.&lt;br /&gt;
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No. Lojban will stand on its own, and will gain support from Esperantists on its own merits, or not at all. As long as I have influence, I will resist attempts to make there be an &#039;exclusive or&#039; choice between Lojban and Esperanto among potential speakers. If we do this, there will be no competition. (Hmmm! Could increased competitiveness be a fallout of linguistic confusion between &#039;inclusive or&#039; and &#039;exclusive or&#039;? A Sapir-Whorf effect that we might find negated among Lojbanists!)&lt;br /&gt;
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Let&#039;s turn to one more letter on Esperanto (and a few other subjects), from Paul Doudna. Bob&#039;s responses to some of them are embedded:&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussions of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis have been interesting. However, I&#039;m inclined to think that testing this hypothesis may be like testing the Shroud of Turin. That is, no matter how it is tested and no matter what the results are, people will continue to believe as they did before.&lt;br /&gt;
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I am sending you an article on E-Prime. If you haven&#039;t seen this already, I think you will find it interesting. The article is written in E-Prime, which is almost the same as English. The author obviously believes that language does have a significant effect on our thinking.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bob: E-Prime is a variation on English devised by General Semanticists that avoids using the verb &#039;to be&#039; in all its forms. Andy Hilgartner&#039;s articles above are written in his version of E-Prime, and Andy, also, apparently believes that language has a significant effect on thinking. Score one against Ralph&#039;s and Don&#039;s claim that S-W has been totally discredited.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Concerning the Lojban logo, I notice that most of the suggestions involve some kind of visual ambiguity. Considering that one of the primary claims of Lojban is its freedom from ambiguity and also the fact that some critics claim that Lojban is actually more ambiguous than English, the use of an ambiguous design for a logo would be quite ironic.&lt;br /&gt;
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I showed the articles comparing Esperanto and Lojban to a friend of mine who is an Esperantist. His reactions were very negative. I must agree with him that many of the points of comparison were not valid. The articles themselves contained some disclaimers, implying that the comparison should not be taken too seriously. In particular, the attempt to compare &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot; I don&#039;t think really works. The meaning of the word &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot; is used quite differently in [discussing] the two languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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Here are two suggestions for a more meaningful comparison:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Translate some sample sentences in English (chosen equally by Lojbanists and Esperantists) into both languages. Include relevant comments on any peculiar features of the translations.&lt;br /&gt;
# Compare the underlying assumptions behind the two languages. Zamenhof and Brown had in mind quite different concepts of what constituted an ideal language. These concepts of course determined the way the resulting language should be constructed. This type of comparison might be very difficult since in many cases these underlying assumptions are not made explicit.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I heard a talk on Esperanto about a year ago, it sounded almost like the speaker was talking about Loglan/Lojban. There is no ambiguity in Esperanto, it was claimed. (But the two languages mean something different by &amp;quot;ambiguity&amp;quot;.) It was further claimed that Esperanto is culturally neutral. (Again, the meaning of &amp;quot;cultural neutrality&amp;quot; is not quite the same in both languages.) Esperanto is completely &amp;quot;logical&amp;quot;. (Meaning that the grammar is free of irregularities typical of most languages, not that it is based on a system of logic as Lojban attempts to do.) And of course the spelling is completely phonetic. (Both languages are alike in this respect, although Esperanto doesn&#039;t have spoken punctuation.)&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bob: A good response and some good suggestions. Any volunteers among the Esperantists to devise some sentences to translate and/or some lists of assumptions and ideals. We may need Paul to serve as a moderator to point out where our definitions don&#039;t jibe.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Have the 600 rules of Lojban been published? I suspect that no matter how many rules are stated explicitly, that there will be a potentially unlimited number of implicit semantic rules that are used in any language to actually understand what any given sentence means.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bob: On the first: Yes, this issue! Though the number is now closer to 550, depending on how you count. Every word has a &#039;rule&#039; defining its semantic meaning. If you count those as rules, than a language with fewer words has fewer rules. However, you can turn this around. The universe of discourse for &#039;all of language&#039; is approximately the same for all languages. A language that divides up semantic space into fewer words tends to end up with words being used for multiple meanings. Lojban has one advantage in that Lojbanists generally try to avoid unnecessary figurative extensions of meaning and to explicitly mark those extension where accurate interpretation is important.]&lt;br /&gt;
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The article on negation was enlightening, as far as I could follow it. I&#039;m not familiar enough with Lojban grammar to fully appreciate its significance for Lojban. I would have two observations:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# I&#039;m not sure how this will work in Lojban, but in English, we typically form negatives which theoretically represent contradictory statements or complement classes. In practice, in spite of the language representation, we tend to think in terms of contrary stereotypes. To treat these contrary stereotypes as if they were jointly exhaustive concepts (as the language form would seem to indicate) can lead to illogical conclusions. For example, &amp;quot;Un-American&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;unchristian&amp;quot;, to give two extreme examples.&lt;br /&gt;
# It is pointed out, quite correctly, that negation in English is very complex in practice. It is only roughly analogous to the vastly simplified negation of formal logic. Basically, the same conclusion applies to the logical connectives AND, OR, and IF. That is, these words (along with NOT) in the context of formal logic do not mean what their counterparts mean in English. It will be interesting to see if those who use Lojban will adhere to the theoretical meanings of such words (thus resulting in a logical form of thinking far beyond what is normally found among human beings), or will the meanings of these words merely shift, losing their precise logical definition (in terms of truth tables) and evolving to something much closer to English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: On the first, we ended up adding two cmavo to lexeme NAhE, the contrary negation lexeme. In addition to na&#039;e, which refers to the generalized scalar contrary, we&#039;ve added no&#039;e as a scalar &#039;middle&#039; or neutral, and to&#039;e as a polar opposite. Thus Lojban allows explicit distinctions in &amp;quot;un-&amp;quot; that are not possible for English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the second, Jim Brown and the Loglan community in general have looked at AND, OR, and IF, much more thoroughly than they had NOT. In addition, with the possible exception of IF, these do not have the complex questions of &#039;scope&#039; that negation has. We&#039;re fairly confident that no problems remain here. When I write the textbook on those parts of the language, we&#039;ll be more certain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There should not be much backsliding to English versions of the logical connectives if we&#039;ve properly taught them, because the various non-logical English versions of these connectives are also built into Lojban. For example, we have causal connectives for causal IF, a wide variety of ANDs, and a flexible restatement of OR in terms of set membership. The availability of the English non-logical combining forms should keep the pure logical connectives &#039;pure&#039;. We&#039;ll certainly find out. (Note that most of the English-like forms are more highly marked in Lojban than the logical connectives, so there will be some caution necessary in this area.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the process of trying to sort out and file the material I have accumulated over the years about Loglan/Lojban, I notice that in many cases material (such as the article on Lojban Negation) does not contain the date and does not contain the name of the author. I realize that in the past I have written some things myself that are not properly identified. However, I think it would be useful if all material that is distributed was identified with a date and name.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Good idea, and we&#039;ll try to do better. We&#039;ve put out JL with enclosures on the assumption that most people who save the material put it in notebooks as they get it, and hence have stuff associated together in a &#039;useful&#039; order, which is usually not by date. For next issue, I&#039;ll try to come up with a list of our publications of the past, which ones are worth keeping (other than for historical interest), and explain how Nora and I have set up notebooks to keep the &#039;useful&#039; information at hand. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. publications often do not bear an author&#039;s name if we want the article to be seen as a product of the organization rather than of an individual. In such a case, we&#039;ll try to make sure the organization name is on it.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another thing that I think would be useful would be a short glossary of often used Lojban terms, to be updated at frequent intervals. This might be published as a separate sheet to be kept as reference, or if short enough, included on the back page of each newsletter. There are certain terms used frequently which I don&#039;t always remember (and new readers of the newsletter will not know at all). For example, I am trying to find the difference in meaning between the definitions of bridi and selbri. They are defined somewhere, I&#039;m sure, but I can&#039;t locate the definitions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: I explained selbri above, but in case you missed it, selbri corresponds to the logic term &#039;predicate&#039;, while bridi (in the gismu list) corresponds to the term &#039;predication&#039;. In other words, the bridi is the whole sentence, while the selbri is the thing in the middle that determines the relationship among the sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We used to have a glossary in every issue, up to around JL4 or JL5, but it got too big. The Overview was written to be a textual glossary for newcomers, figuring that old-timers were tired of seeing (and paying for) the definitions for words they already knew. The Overview, of course, is getting old, and has kunbri for what is now selbri and a couple of other minor errors. But the errors have thus far been seen as too minor to justify a revision sent to everybody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The textbook will contain a glossary of both Lojban words of this sort and English linguistic terms that are used a lot in describing the language. In addition, Lojbanist Nancy Thalblum has started putting a glossary together as she studies the language. We may publish this separately, or use it as the basis for the textbook glossary. People are encouraged to write in with lists of words they would like to see defined in a glossary (other than the obvious Lojban ones).]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First this issue is a little ditty written by Athelstan. It&#039;s cute, if not profound. Sing it to the tune of &#039;Oscar Meyer&#039; jingle.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    My Lojban has a first name                             &lt;br /&gt;
       it&#039;s &#039;logical&#039;, you see                             &lt;br /&gt;
    My Lojban has a second name                            &lt;br /&gt;
       the &#039;language&#039; that&#039;s for me                        &lt;br /&gt;
    I like to use it ev&#039;ry day                             &lt;br /&gt;
       and if you ask me why, I&#039;ll say                     &lt;br /&gt;
    la lojban. cu se nelci mi                              &lt;br /&gt;
       gi&#039;e ve tavla do fo mi                              &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last line is pronounced:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
/lah,LOHZH,bahn. shoo,seh NEHL,shee,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,heh veh,TAH,vlah doh,foh,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and means, roughly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Lojban is liked by me, &lt;br /&gt;
and is spoken to you by me.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also on a light note, John Cowan made his first Lojban effort a real humdinger. Here&#039;s his introduction and the text. See the translation section if you can&#039;t figure it out. (If you haven&#039;t tried a translation before, you may want to try John&#039;s journal entries, which follow this monstrosity, first.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this month&#039;s writings, we&#039;ve tried to use the added writing conventions to make the text easier to read. Hope it helps. Hope we are reasonably consistent in our usage of the conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And (ta-dah!) my first piece of Lojban. I&#039;m using a format similar to JL10&#039;s, so you can see what I said, what I meant to say, and what I was trying to say. The original, by the way, is the 1984 winner of the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest, an international bad-writing contest where the contestants submitted the opening paragraph from &amp;quot;the worst of all possible novels&amp;quot;. I found it in a book called &amp;quot;It Was A Dark And Stormy Night&amp;quot;, a collection of entries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Herewith the Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le nimcitno goi ko&#039;a po&#039;u la ka,as. noi ko&#039;a melbi bai jorne le sramudri noi ke&#039;a kusru zi&#039;e po le dabli&#039;e goi ko&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu ku secau le kecti .i le&#039;i prenu poi ke&#039;a se saptutklu zi&#039;e po ko&#039;e ca zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a jamfu noi ke&#039;a cisyselpli .ibabo le voksa noi ke&#039;a cladu je klina zi&#039;e po&#039;e la nebnauzag. noi ke&#039;a te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai le do fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi do lifri lenu mi setca le xarci le do se citka poi ko&#039;a romoi ko&#039;u li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As mentioned earlier, John Cowan has started writing a Lojban journal. Here are the first 3 days of his journal entries. Only minor corrections were needed. John&#039;s pleasant rhyme (you&#039;ll see), used an incorrect word. We corrected the word, calling the result a near-rhyme.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most new Lojbanists should be able to understand this text using only the gismu list, rafsi list and cmavo list, and making literal translations and educated guesses as to how the result goes together. Try it and see:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la lunas. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mutce cmalu jukni cu cpare le djacu tubnu .i carvi ja&#039;e le nu ko&#039;a farlu .i le solri cu febri&#039;a le carvi .i le jukni cu rapli cpare&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la mars. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mi tixnu po&#039;u la airin. verba .i ko&#039;a nanca li ci .i ko&#039;a kelci je krixa .i je ko&#039;a sipna .i ko&#039;a bacru fi la gliban. .i mi bacru fi la gliban. .e la lojban. .i mi na&#039;e drani bacru fi la lojban. .i mi zutse .i je mi viska le nu le mi tixnu cu kelci .i glare&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi jdice le nu mi te cmene le&#039;i djedi le&#039;i plini&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o cusku fa la viktorias &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi ga&#039;i ba&#039;e na&#039;e se zdile li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i di&#039;u xajmi mi .i zo ga&#039;i jibni rimni zo ba&#039;e la lojban. .i zo na&#039;e go&#039;i .i le nu le&#039;i rimni cu porsi cu xajmi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la saturn. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cusku fa la daisets. suzukis. &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi po la zen. skicu lo kilycna fo lo na&#039;e kilycna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi tirna lo verba zgike .i ri mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi pu tcidu lo cukta be le nu ke pamoi penmi le na&#039;e terdi prenu po&#039;u la tranx. bei la alan. din. fostr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next we have a letter and another poem by Michael Helsem, who has been extremely prolific in the last few months (we are pleasantly drowning in his Lojban poetry). Due to our tight schedule, we&#039;ve made some changes to what he wrote that we haven&#039;t been able to run by him, so hopefully he&#039;ll forgive us if we messed something up. Michael does follow the excellent practice of sending us fairly literal English translations of everything he writes so we can (usually) figure out his intent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s text is very complex, indeed probably too complex either for him or for a typical reader; it appears that Michael was trying to paraphrase his natural English idiom, throwing in plenty of attitudinals and discursives. However, the result is worth studying; the letter exemplifies several more esoteric features of Lojban grammar as well as the problems in translating idiom. At least look up the words and make your best guess what he&#039;s trying to say. Then check the translation to see what he intended.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A far better practice in writing your own letters, by the way, is to figure out what you want to say, then express it in short Lojban sentences as John Cowan did in his journal. You will find after writing only a few pages that you will develop a more Lojbanic idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael actually made very few grammatical errors. There are, however, some &#039;wrong words&#039;, some unfortunate Americanisms that translate poorly when he tries to do them literally, and some equivalents to English pronouns, that in Lojban are frustratingly vague or misleading. All in all, though, this is an excellent effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I editorially embedded the original of the poem included in the letter within the non-grammatical quotes &amp;quot;lo&#039;u ... le&#039;u&amp;quot;; the poem had one &#039;grammatical error&#039; that could not be corrected without destroying the sense of his introductory comments regardin the poem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco le mi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u .i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e .i ta&#039;onai pu ra ku mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci po&#039;u se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i .i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) .i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a .iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu .i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu .i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i .ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io .i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u) .i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i [&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Bob promised to try writing some of his &#039;natural&#039; Lojban (almost everything else he&#039;s written in the language has been constrained to a limited vocabulary, such as the short readings in the draft textbook lessons). The issue is so delayed that he promised to keep it short this time (relatively). Remember. No translation is provided. You can write and ask specific questions if you make the attempt and get lost. I can&#039;t promise perfection at this stuff yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.uo .uonai .i dukti .i na go&#039;i .i mi ciksi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o zu&#039;u zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uo&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi smuni lenu mulno cilmo ku&#039;o cu mapti leza&#039;i da lojbo gerna .e leza&#039;i de lojbo gismu .i so&#039;u cilre girzu zu&#039;o tadni cu mulno .i so&#039;u drata ke cilre girzu caze&#039;a penmi joi tadni vijevajevuku .i cabi&#039;iba le karni ke cabna selci po&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se pagbu loi lojbo selsku .i ri krasi selci&#039;a bau la lojban. (to mi bau la gliban. na pensi ja ciska [sei .ue .o&#039;a lo pluja logji selsku po&#039;u dei cu frili se&#039;u] loi mulno selpei pu lenu mi samci&#039;a dei pe ve&#039;a toi) .i la maiky&#039;elsym. cu te pemci bau la lojban gi&#039;e ca mansa ke gerna drani .i la djan. kau,n. cu dikni skuci&#039;a bau la lojban vi levo&#039;a seirkarni .i .ua la lojbangirz. cu se ganzu fo loi lojbo .i ri mutce snada ke mulno selzu&#039;e mi&#039;o pe ve&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o zu&#039;unai zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.uo&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .ebazibo zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;.nai&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu mapti le lojbo pu&#039;u farvi .i ri ba&#039;e na mulno .i .ei .uonai le ctucku vau .i mi dunku ri ki&#039;u lenu mi nalbanzu mulri&#039;a .i mi xaksu loi dukse temci le zu&#039;o ganzu joi si&#039;orcanja joi flagau joi dintro .ianai .au .i le vlacku gunka cu balvi .i .ei la lojbangirz. ba banro zukte .i .ei loi zmadu be loi ca lobypre ba cilre .a&#039;o le bangu .i .ei piro lei cempre ba se ganzu fo lenu pejri&#039;a le cecmu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o .einai mi zukte pamei .i .ei roko zukte .i ko cilre la lojban. .i ko dunda piro lei jdini poi te marde pagbu be le selfai poi dinselxaksu .i .uuse&#039;i loi nalbanzu jdini cu seldu&#039;u mi gi&#039;e rinka lenu mi gunka dirsno&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;oku&#039;i .ia ba&#039;a le tcini cu xagmaubi&#039;o .i piso&#039;ado ba sidju .i so&#039;ida ba cilre je pilno la lojban. .i .ai .au .eicai ko morji je tinbe le selsku cnimu&#039;i be la lojbangirz. be&#039;o po&#039;u &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i ganai ko go&#039;i gi la lojban. snada gi&#039;e bangu do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ki&#039;emi&#039;e la lojbab. po&#039;u la bab. leceval,ier.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Translations ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our first translation is John Cowan&#039;s first paragraph, which we&#039;ll repeat so you have it handy:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le nimcitno goi ko&#039;a po&#039;u la ka,as. noi ko&#039;a melbi bai jorne le sramudri noi ke&#039;a kusru zi&#039;e po le dabli&#039;e goi ko&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu ku secau le kecti .i lei prenu poi ke&#039;a se saptutklu zi&#039;e po ko&#039;e ca zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a jamfu noi ke&#039;a cisyselpli .ibabo le voksa noi ke&#039;a cladu je klina zi&#039;e po&#039;e la nebnauzag. noi ke&#039;a te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai le do fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi do lifri lenu mi setca le xarci le do se citka poi ke&#039;a romoi ko&#039;u li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pidgin translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Totally new subject. The woman-youth known-as she1 who-is-identically the-one-called Kaa who-incidentally-is beautiful, forcedly is-joined-to the upright-wood such-that it is cruel and such that it is specific-to the fight-leader known-as he2 who-is-identically the-one-called Animal without the mercy. The-mass-of persons such-that they are-simple-tool-culture-people which-are-specific-to him2 simultaneously make a heap-of some wood at her1 feet such-that they are-sexually-used. And-then the voice such-that it is-loud and is-clear and is inalienably-possessed-by the-one-called Beautiful-male-buttocks who-incidentally-is a poem-maker and a superlative-man angrily-utters, quote, if your fire-causer causes some fire with-result the woman-youth is-something-cooked then you experience that I insert the weapon into your something-eaten such-that it is last, unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English original:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The lovely woman-child Kaa was mercilessly chained to the cruel post of the warrior-chief Beast, with his barbarian tribe now stacking wood at her nubile feet, when the strong clear voice of the poetic and heroic Handsomas roared, &amp;quot;Flick your Bic, crisp that chick, and you&#039;ll feel my steel through your last meal.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John&#039;s notes on the translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There doesn&#039;t seem to be any way to say &amp;quot;mercy&amp;quot; in Lojban. I substituted &amp;quot;pity&amp;quot;, which is adequate in the negative, because &amp;quot;pitiless&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;merciless&amp;quot;, but pity and mercy are quite distinct in the positive. [Bob: &amp;quot;mercy&amp;quot; can be derived as a scalar negative either from the gismu for &amp;quot;cruel&amp;quot; or for &amp;quot;severe&amp;quot;. Since he&#039;s already used &amp;quot;kusru&amp;quot; in the text, &amp;quot;naljursa&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;to&#039;e jursa&amp;quot; seem like better choices.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I attempted to avoid the excessive use (to my way of thinking) of tanru in much of the Lojban I&#039;ve seen to date, in favor of relative clauses. On the other hand, I&#039;m far from sure that I have their syntax correct. [Bob: He was close, omitting only the zi&#039;e connectives for multiple relative clauses and phrases attached to the same sumti.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of &amp;quot;la nebnauzag.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;Handsomas&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The clumsiness of &amp;quot;fagryrinka rinka lei fagri&amp;quot; is a deliberate attempt to translate &amp;quot;Flick your Bic&amp;quot; into something that sounds equally idiotic. Unfortunately Handsomas loses his terseness (strong, silent male type) in Lojban, at least in my Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob adds: The Bulwar-Lytton competition is actually a contest for the worst first-line of a novel. John&#039;s translation breaks it up into multiple sentences, but it is possible to combine all the separate Lojban pieces into a single sentence. (To make elidable terminators easier to track, I&#039;m removing John&#039;s excess relative clauses; I&#039;m also making a couple of other minor changes that I think are improvements):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o ba lenu le melbi nimcitno po&#039;u la ka,as. goi ko&#039;a bai jorne binxo le kusru sramudri po le dabli&#039;e po&#039;u la danlu goi ko&#039;e secau loka naljursa kei kei ca lenu lei se saptutklu po ko&#039;e cu zbasu lo derxi be loi mudri bei leko&#039;a cisyselpli jamfu kei le cladu je klina voksa be la nebnauzag. noi te pemci je tajnau cu fegcru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu ganai ledo fagryrinka cu rinka lei fagri ja&#039;e le nimcitno se jukpa gi ko lifri leli&#039;i mi setca le xarci ledo se citka poi seri&#039;a romoi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The translation is fairly close to John&#039;s:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Totally new subject. After the beautiful woman-youth who-is-identically the-one-called Kaa (known-as she1) forcedly joined-becomes-to the cruel upright-wood which-is-specific-to the fight-leader who-is-identically the-one-called Animal (known-as he2) without mercy, and while the-mass-of simple-tool-culture-people which-are-specific-to him2 make a heap-of wood at her1 sexually-used feet, the loud and clear voice of the-one-called Beautiful-male-buttocks who-incidentally-is a poet and a superlative-man angrily-utters, &amp;quot;if your fire-causer causes some fire with-result of the woman-youth cooked-thing then (imperative) experience the experience of my inserting the weapon into your something-eaten which is the causedly-therefore last&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If that was too hard, you may or may not benefit from the Lojban parser output for this sample. In this case, the parser sufficiently matches the current grammar that I had to make no changes to parse the text. (The parser version I used was written last October, showing how stable the core grammar has been for the last year or so.) The capitalized words are all the elidable terminators that were &#039;left out&#039;, each identified by lexeme. The parentheses correspond to multi-part rules in the machine grammar, as explained in the text material accompanying the machine grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
({ni&#039;o ni&#039;o} {&amp;lt;[({ba &amp;lt;le [nu ({&amp;lt;le [melbi nimcitno] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po&#039;u [la ka,as. (goi {ko&#039;a} GEhU)] GEhU&amp;gt;} {bai &amp;lt;[jorne binxo] [({&amp;lt;le [kusru sramudri] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po [(le dabli&#039;e KU) (po&#039;u {la danlu KU &amp;lt;goi [ko&#039;e] GEhU&amp;gt;} GEhU)] GEhU&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;se cau&amp;gt; &amp;lt;lo [ka (naljursa VAU) kei] KU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}) kei] KU&amp;gt;} {ca &amp;lt;le [nu ({&amp;lt;lei [se saptutklu] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po ko&#039;e GEhU&amp;gt;} cu {zbasu &amp;lt;[lo (derxi {be &amp;lt;loi mudri KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;bei [le (ko&#039;a {cisyselpli jamfu}) KU]&amp;gt; BEhO}) KU] VAU&amp;gt;}) kei] KU&amp;gt;}) (le {&amp;lt;cladu je klina&amp;gt; &amp;lt;voksa [be ({la nebnauzag.} {noi &amp;lt;[(te pemci) je tajnau] VAU&amp;gt; KUhO}) BEhO]&amp;gt;} KU)] cu [fegcru ({lu &amp;lt;[(ga nai) ({le &amp;lt;do fagryrinka&amp;gt; KU} cu {rinka &amp;lt;[(lei fagri KU) (ja&#039;e {le &amp;lt;nimcitno [se jukpa]&amp;gt; KU})] VAU&amp;gt;}) gi (ko CU {lifri &amp;lt;[le (li&#039;i {mi CU &amp;lt;setca [({le xarci KU} {&amp;lt;le [do (se citka)] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;poi [({se ri&#039;a} {ro moi}) VAU] KUhO&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;} KEI) KU] VAU&amp;gt;})] FAhO&amp;gt; li&#039;u} VAU)]&amp;gt; FAhO})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, we have John Cowan&#039;s journal entries. John didn&#039;t supply a translation, and I don&#039;t know Suzuki&#039;s non-Lojbanized first name, but otherwise his writing is quite straightforward. Unlike Michael&#039;s writing, and unlike John&#039;s first Lojban work above, John is choosing to write in simple, methodical sentences. The result is that he makes few and minor errors. This is the type of sentence I think most anyone can write with ease after the first few draft textbook lessons or some disciplined sentence building using the machine grammar as described in the introduction to that document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la lunas. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mutce cmalu jukni cu cpare le djacu tubnu .i carvi ja&#039;e le nu ko&#039;a farlu .i le solri cu febri&#039;a le carvi .i le jukni cu rapli cpare&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of the Moon.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The much-small-spider climbs-on-surface the water-tube (John has proposed a place structure change matching this usage). Rain, with result therefore of it1 falling. The sun boil-causes the rain. The spider repeatedly-climbs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[This is a translation of a familiar nursery rhyme. John had used &amp;quot;febvi&amp;quot; alone in the next-to-last sentence, with a strange place structure result. In the last sentence, &amp;quot;krefu&amp;quot; might be preferable to &amp;quot;rapli&amp;quot;, being a more literal translation, but given the way nursery rhymes are so often repeated, &amp;quot;rapli&amp;quot; may be a more correct term. John&#039;s use of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; is non-standard, since he never assigns it. In some usages, it isn&#039;t necessary, since there is only one possible referent. This isn&#039;t the case here, although it is in the following.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la mars. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o le mi tixnu po&#039;u la airin. verba .i ko&#039;a nanca li ci .i ko&#039;a kelci je krixa .i je ko&#039;a sipna .i ko&#039;a bacru fi la gliban. .i mi bacru fi la gliban. .e la lojban. .i mi na&#039;e drani bacru fi la lojban. .i mi zutse .i je mi viska le nu le mi tixnu cu kelci .i glare &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o mi jdice le nu mi te cmene le&#039;i djedi le&#039;i plini &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o cusku fa la viktorias &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi ga&#039;i ba&#039;e na&#039;e se zdile li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .i di&#039;u xajmi mi .i zo ga&#039;i jibni rimni zo ba&#039;e la lojban. .i zo na&#039;e go&#039;i .i le nu le&#039;i rimni cu porsi cu xajmi mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of Mars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My daughter, the one named Irene, is a child. She1 is measured in years the number 3. She1 plays-and-cries. And she1 sleeps. She1 utters in English. I utter in English and in Lojban. I non-correctly utter in Lojban. I sit. And I see my daughter playing. Warm! (observative)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I decide I will name the set of days, the set of planets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expressed, by Victoria &amp;quot;We (Hauteur!) are not amused.&amp;quot; The last sentence is funny to me. &amp;quot;ga&#039;i&amp;quot; approximately rhymes with &amp;quot;ba&#039;e&amp;quot; in Lojban. &amp;quot;na&#039;e&amp;quot;, too. The event of the set of rhymes being sequential is funny to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I suspect that John wanted a specific attitudinal where he said &amp;quot;glare&amp;quot;, given the context. A lot of possible meanings, otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m wary about naming &amp;quot;the set of days, the set of planets&amp;quot;. I think he wanted &amp;quot;lu&#039;e&amp;quot; (lexeme LAhE) in front of the second set, making it that he was naming &amp;quot;the set of days, the symbols for the set of planets&amp;quot;. But this is a fairly advanced usage that John probably hadn&#039;t seen yet.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o de&#039;i le djedi po la saturn. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o cusku fa la daisets. suzukis. &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu mi po la zen. skicu lo kilycna fo lo na&#039;e kilycna li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi tirna lo verba zgike .i ri mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi pu tcidu lo cukta be le nu ke pamoi penmi le na&#039;e terdi prenu po&#039;u la tranx. bei la alan. din. fostr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dated the day of Saturn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Expressed by ?Daisets Suzuki &amp;quot;We of Zen describe a sharp-shovel (spade) as a non-sharp-shovel (non-spade).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hear some child-music. It (the music) pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I did-read a book about the-event-of first-meeting with-the non-earth-person who is Tranx, by Alan Dean Foster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[No problems, and the last sentence was both excellently grammatical, and about as complex as I could expect from most students of the draft lessons studying on their own. The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the last sentence is legal but unneeded, possibly a remnant learned from something I wrote more than 1 1/2 years ago, when &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; unnecessarily required the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; following it.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, here is the translation and commentary for Michael Helsem&#039;s letter. We&#039;ll present the text and translation as a whole so you have some idea what the letter is talking about, then go back and look at each sentence. The italicized text is a literal translation, which in places will be difficult to understand. The normal English text is what Michael was apparently trying to say, paraphrased from his own translation and somewhat simplified. It is not always exactly what he said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following utterances are a &amp;quot;purplish-lojbanic&amp;quot; (figuratively) letter dated that named 6 which is possessed by Five-month (6th of May).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following is a letter in &amp;quot;purple Lojban&amp;quot; dated 6 May.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco le mi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u .i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e .i ta&#039;onai pu ra ku mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings! I, to you-all, for your showing my poems, am grateful (Most important point!). Earlier, throughout this space-time, I&#039;m very affair-active used-ly, and could-and-did poetry-quantity add (to something) in-amount a too-few-some (Repentance!) which (the-too-few-some is justified by my then-until-later-but-not-continuously (Belief but Obscurity!) greater state of affair-activity. Anyway, before that (an unclear reference), I comment(ed?) on a few of the earlier shown-things, associated with time unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Hi, y&#039;all. Thanks for showing my poems. Earlier (all over) I was very busy, and can add too-few poems because of my from-now-on, but not continuously, even more busy state. Anyway, before that (the poems), I&#039;ll comment on a couple of the previously printed ones, while I&#039;m at it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci po&#039;u se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i .i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem which is tagged &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot;, I don&#039;t understand the reason for: your putting &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; on the front-site of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; despite motive of my previously giving [&amp;quot;providing&amp;quot; approximately is correct] an interval grammar tag, specifically &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; which is at the back-site, incidentally with a motive. This (?) is a sentence about (the quote) &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;, isn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot; (the 3rd limerick in JL11). I don&#039;t understand why you put &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, and omitted the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; that I had further back. I intended the equivalent of &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;. (The answer, explained below, is that his original English translation was ambiguous and did not convey this meaning to me.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) .i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second (whew!) about the be-labelled-by &amp;quot;the face-cover ...&amp;quot;, in the next-to-last word-line, &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; is inserted into &amp;quot;event-ish wild-weather&amp;quot; therefore with result &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; replaces, doesn&#039;t it, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;). &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (Acceptance!).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second. About the poem &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot; (also in JL11). If &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; were inserted into the selbri of the next-to-last line, would the result be &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot;? Also, &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; should replace &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, shouldn&#039;t it? I accept that &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (responding to one of Bob&#039;s comments in JL11).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu .i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu .i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i .ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; .iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But, that causes that I now-observe an in-the-past, for-a-long-time, difficulty. I a-few-times use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for a one-time, short-time-interval, event, and otherly use ... for a continuing, long-time-interval event. Two different words are necessary, I opine. And (I agree) I then-and-now loose-use, (by method of purple Lojban!), &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;. But (Obligation!) existing is the possibility of non-regular piece-utterances which are able at ceasing at-the in-front-of-site (End of example).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But this raises a difficulty I&#039;ve had for a while. Sometimes I use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for short, one-time events, and sometimes for long, continuous events. I think two words are necessary. And I agree that I loosely-use &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; after a &amp;quot;purple Lojban&amp;quot; fashion. But there ought to exist the possibility of an unsystematic ellipsis which is able to stop short.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io .i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Returning to subject), thirdly, about the last poem, the antepenultimate word-line becomes &amp;quot;a single self-observer&amp;quot;, precisely, respectfully. Enough, is that. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Thirdly, in the last poem (in JL11 actually, he meant the next-to last one), the antepenultimate word-line should indeed become &amp;quot;lo pamei seizga&amp;quot;. But enough of that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u) .i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses one of my modifications of the argument-label previous-list [I intensely want to know its (the list&#039;s) last form.] I use ??&amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which incidentally is labelled as &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses an extrapolation from one of the words in the old lexeme BAI list. I sure want to know what the final lexeme BAI list is. I use &amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which I call &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i [&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra &lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted quote for ungrammatical text]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Temporarily-destroy me;&lt;br /&gt;
and I will yonder-yonder return&lt;br /&gt;
through the medium of you.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s magic.&lt;br /&gt;
All the time,&lt;br /&gt;
we do it (with purpose)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted end-quote and &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to make the non-grammatical quoted poem a valid &#039;incomplete sentence&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now lets go over it in detail, answering Michael&#039;s questions, and raising a couple of points about the language not covered in draft textbook lessons (or at least not clearly). Don&#039;t let the extensive comments imply otherwise - Michael did an outstanding job considering the complex grammar he tried to use. He made fewer errors than his previous attempts, and they were more of the nature of not knowing the right word and/or depending on English idiom, than they were grammatical flaws.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve broken the text into individual sentences. A parser output is also included for each line. The parentheses match over the whole text, but will not match perfectly for each line (there will usually be an extra right parenthesis at the end of a sentence corresponding to a left parenthesis near the beginning of the text). We&#039;d like feedback on how useful the parser outputs are to you. Do they tell you anything, or are they just so much gibberish?&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e zirjbo po&#039;a xatra de&#039;i la xav. po&#039;e la mumast.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;({di&#039;e CU &amp;lt;[zirjbo po&#039;a xatra] [(de&#039;i {&amp;lt;la xav.&amp;gt; &amp;lt;po&#039;e [la mumast.] GEhU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;The following utterances are a &amp;quot;purplish-lojbanic&amp;quot; (figuratively) letter dated that named 6 which is possessed by Five-month (6th of May).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: To date the letter, we used &amp;quot;de&#039;i&amp;quot; (associated with date ...) and not &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;. Using &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; claims that it was a letter at the time of the date given, without saying anything about what it is now. In addition to &amp;quot;de&#039;i&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tu&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; perform the same function for letters, respectively with regard to location and time-of-day. None of these three serve a &#039;tense&#039; function; they attach a date, location or time as a labelling relation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o coido&#039;u mi dopeza ledo nu jarco lemi pemci cu ckire ra&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{ni&#039;o &amp;lt;coi do&#039;u&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;[( mi {do &amp;lt;pe [za (le {do &amp;lt;nu [jarco ({le &amp;lt;mi pemci&amp;gt; KU} VAU)] KEI&amp;gt;} KU)] GEhU&amp;gt;}) cu ({ckire ra&#039;u} VAU)]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Greetings! I, to you-all, for your showing my poems, am grateful (Most important point!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: In his original, Michael omitted the &amp;quot;do&#039;u&amp;quot; after &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot;. This had strange (and humorous) effects: in &amp;quot;... coi mi dopeza ...&amp;quot; the &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; grabs hold of the next sumti (&amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;), causing Michael to greet himself and imply that the rest of the letter is addressed to himself. The rest of the sentence then said (to himself) roughly that &amp;quot;You-all are grateful to the showing of my poems for something unspecified.&amp;quot; Moral: either be specific who you are greeting, remember to terminate the vocative, or immediately start a new sentence. Michael also had attached &amp;quot;lemi pemci&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;jarco&amp;quot; with the &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; link. This is grammatical, but wasn&#039;t necessary. &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and other abstraction clauses presume that an entire sentence follows, and you can include all of the sumti you want without attaching them. Remember that you have to terminate abstractions (with &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;) if another sumti follows (it doesn&#039;t in this case), or you&#039;ll have the same kind of strange effects as the vocative &amp;quot;coi&amp;quot; caused.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mike translated &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; in the above sentence as an incidental &amp;quot;(of course)&amp;quot;; his Lojban actually indicates that his gratefulness was his most important point of the letter. Note that Michael&#039;s &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; attaches specifically to &amp;quot;ckire&amp;quot;, and not to the whole sentence. To apply a discursive or attitudinal to the sentence as a whole, you must put it at the beginning of the sentence, or express the normally elided &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; at the end of the sentence and attach the &amp;quot;ra&#039;u&amp;quot; to that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i puvi&#039;eku mi mutce cutyzu&#039;e pi&#039;o gi&#039;e pu&#039;i ninpemci jmina la&#039;u lo mo&#039;amei .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u lemi cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i .ia li&#039;anai zmadu nu mutce cutyzu&#039;e &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [({&amp;lt;pu vi&#039;e&amp;gt; ku} mi) CU ({&amp;lt;[mutce cutyzu&#039;e] [(pi&#039;o KU) VAU]&amp;gt; gi&#039;e pu&#039;i &amp;lt;[ninpemci jmina] [(la&#039;u {&amp;lt;lo [mo&#039;a mei u&#039;u] KU&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ne [ki&#039;u (le {mi &amp;lt;[(ca bi&#039;i ba) (je nai) (ru&#039;i ia li&#039;a nai)] [zmadu (nu {&amp;lt;mutce cutyzu&#039;e&amp;gt; VAU} KEI)]&amp;gt;} KU)] GEhU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;} VAU)]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Earlier, throughout this space-time, I&#039;m very affair-active used-ly, and could-and-did poetry-quantity add (to something) in-amount a too-few-some (Repentance!) which (the-too-few-some is justified by my then-until-later-but-not-continuously (Belief but Obscurity!) greater state of affair-activity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Some complicated but cute tense constructions that come close to what Michael intended. What he said, &amp;quot;puvi&#039;eku&amp;quot;, is kind of self-contradictory; &amp;quot;vi&#039;e&amp;quot; means throughout an interval of space-time (which includes a time dimension), but Michael has already specified a specific time as &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;vi&#039;u&amp;quot; is the corresponding space-only interval &#039;tense&#039;, so &amp;quot;puvi&#039;uku&amp;quot; might accomplish what he intends. Another possibility is &amp;quot;pufe&#039;eroroi&amp;quot;. But Michael has also relied incorrectly on English idiom, or he wouldn&#039;t have said this at all (Michael isn&#039;t really everywhere doing anything, though he might feel it sometimes), so I didn&#039;t change what he wrote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;puvi&#039;uku&amp;quot; sets the time in the past. Michael then adds a second tense, &amp;quot;cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i&amp;quot;, apparently not realizing that this second complicated tense of the sentence is an offset from the first. Compare the English &amp;quot;I realized three weeks ago that I would shortly be very busy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that the parser output breaks the compound &amp;quot;cabi&#039;ibajenairu&#039;i&amp;quot; into individual words. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at the same time as&amp;quot; the tense implied by &amp;quot;puvi&#039;eku&amp;quot;, which is of course sometime in the past. The &amp;quot;bi&#039;i&amp;quot; indicates that there is a time interval involved, in this case starting at &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; and ending later at &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;. But &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; is still an offset from the initially set (past) tense of the sentence; thus the sentence refers to a situation that might be entirely in the past from NOW, the time when he wrote the letter, though this seems not to be what Michael intended. Moral: use multiple tenses in a sentence only when you are fairly sure you know what you are doing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One error is as much our fault as his: Michael used &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot;, intending &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot; (which normally should be &amp;quot;sepi&#039;o&amp;quot;, but was erroneously listed as &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; in the October 1988 cmavo list). I left &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; unchanged, though, since it isn&#039;t clear what Michael really meant by &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot;. In this context, I would guess that &amp;quot;instrumentally&amp;quot; would mean that he was busy &#039;using something&#039;. &amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot;, on the other hand, means that his busy-ness was &#039;being used by someone/something&#039;; i.e. possibly, he was busy in his employment. Hopefully, this is what he meant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora recommended adding the &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; in &amp;quot;... .u&#039;u ne ki&#039;u&amp;quot;... . Without &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, the causal &amp;quot;ki&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase modifies the whole bridi (in this case, the 2nd half of a compound bridi centered on selbri &amp;quot;ninpemci jmina&amp;quot;); with the &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, the phrase is an explanation of the &#039;too-few-some&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Based on my best guess as to what Michael intended, I changed his causal from &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;ki&#039;u&amp;quot;. He seems to be presenting a justification for his too-few-some of poems. With &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot;, he is saying that his then-until-later-busy-ness physically caused the too-few-some. There is a second interpretation of Michael&#039;s English such that, using &amp;quot;ri&#039;a&amp;quot; and no &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, Michael&#039;s busy-ness caused the adding of too-few-some; this alternative wasn&#039;t noticed until just before press time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ta&#039;onai pu ra mi pinka so&#039;u lepu selja&#039;o ti&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; ta&#039;o nai&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(pu ra) mi] CU [pinka ({&amp;lt;[so&#039;u BOI] [le (pu selja&#039;o) KU]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ti&#039;u KU&amp;gt;} VAU)]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Anyway, before that (an unclear reference), I comment(ed?) on a few of the earlier shown-things, associated with time unspecified.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: &amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot; is unclear here, the previous sentence is just too complex to figure out what &#039;that&#039; is. My best guess is that he intends the &amp;quot;too-few poems&amp;quot;, but only by assuming English idiom; Michael isn&#039;t commenting before &amp;quot;the too-few-some poems (that) were added&amp;quot;, since the poems were already written; he is commenting before he includes them. Avoid vague references - they are unfair to the reader/listener. My &#039;lojbanic&#039; preference would be to say something like &amp;quot;le pemci kansa deipeza&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;the poems accompany this writing&amp;quot;), then followed by (in this sentence) &amp;quot;pu la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;before this accompaniment&amp;quot;) instead of &amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot;. Michael also could also have been tantalizing and correct with &amp;quot;pu da&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;before what I will eventually express&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael originally had &amp;quot;pu ra ku&amp;quot;, which became illegal about a year ago when we increased the varieties of elidable terminators, so it isn&#039;t Michael&#039;s fault. &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; closes a description, or it early-terminates a sumti tcita that isn&#039;t accompanied by a sumti such as &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; thus preventing it from absorbing a following sumti unintentionally; e.g. &amp;quot;puku mi klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Earlier, I came.&amp;quot;) vs. &amp;quot;pu mi klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Before me, (something) comes&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael translated &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; here as &amp;quot;while I&#039;m at it&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot;, as mentioned above, is used to tag letters and events (&#039;the 6 o&#039;clock news&#039;). Using &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; without a time is merely confusing. There may be a way to say what he wants briefly, but it isn&#039;t apparent to me; Michael already used one vague tense marker (&amp;quot;pu ra&amp;quot;) in the sentence, and Lojban gets really nebulous when you pile vagueness upon vagueness. Given my alternative &amp;quot;pu la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, described above, the simple tense &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; on the selbri, or &amp;quot;caku&amp;quot; at the end would convey &amp;quot;while I&#039;m at it&amp;quot;. Other possibilities exist, perhaps using the sumti tcita &amp;quot;po&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i pamai sera&#039;a le pemci poi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu leka sarcu kei vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku&#039;o mi na jimpe le krinu be ledo nu punji zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;cu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; le crastu po zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mu&#039;inai lemi pu nu dunda (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;sabji&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lu&#039;anai cu drani se&#039;u) lo temge&#039;a tcita (to te&#039;i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;ba&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau toi) pe vi le trixystu ne seba&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i pa mai} {&amp;lt;[(se ra&#039;a) ({le pemci KU} {poi&amp;lt;[se tcita] [(lu {&amp;lt;[le (ka {sarcu VAU} kei) KU] vau&amp;gt; FAhO} li&#039;u) ku&#039;o]&amp;gt;})] mi&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;[na jimpe] [(le {krinu &amp;lt;be [le (do {nu &amp;lt;punji [({&amp;lt;zo cu&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[le crastu KU] [po (zo nu) GEhU]&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;mu&#039;i nai&amp;gt; &amp;lt;le [mi (pu {nu &amp;lt;[dunda (sei {zo sabji lu&#039;a nai} cu drani se&#039;u)] [({lo &amp;lt;temge&#039;a [tcita ({to te&#039;i} {&amp;lt;[zo ba] vau&amp;gt; FAhO} toi)]&amp;gt; KU} {pe &amp;lt;vi [(le trixystu KU) (ne {se bai KU} GEhU)]&amp;gt; GEhU}) VAU]&amp;gt; KEI})] KU&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt; KEI}) KU] BEhO&amp;gt;} KU) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;First, about the poem which is tagged &amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot;, I don&#039;t understand the reason for: your putting &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; on the front-site of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; despite motive of my previously giving [&amp;quot;providing&amp;quot; approximately is correct] an interval grammar tag, specifically &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; which is at the back-site, incidentally with a motive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Though very complex, this one made sense to me. I took out extraneous &amp;quot;be..bei...&amp;quot; constructs and replaced &amp;quot;lu...li&#039;u&amp;quot; by &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; when he quoted a single word. The only grammatical error was minor he originally had *&amp;quot;... po&#039;u se tcita ...&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; indicates a relative phrase (a sumti or tagged sumti) follows. You need &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; for a relative clause (a full bridi).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s question relates to the 3rd limerick in JL11. His original third and fourth lines read &amp;quot;.iku&#039;i le pratci / nu sisti ba batci ...&amp;quot;, which I changed to &amp;quot;.iku&#039;i le pratci / cu nu sisti kei batci&amp;quot;, and he is asking why I left the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; tense off my rewritten version, using &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; instead.&lt;br /&gt;
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Answer: His original English translation of the limerick is a superb example of ambiguous English. He said: &amp;quot;But the produce-tool / cessation bites ...&amp;quot;. This can mean &amp;quot;But the produce-tool is a cessation biter ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;But the produce-tool cessation is a biter ...&amp;quot;. One always assumes non-figurative usage in Lojban, so only the first is plausible - a tool can conceivably &#039;bite&#039;, a &#039;cessation&#039; isn&#039;t a physical thing.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that his English makes no use of future tense; I probably ignored the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; since it didn&#039;t match his English; it may have looked like a typo. However, his original is grammatical, and means &amp;quot;But the produce-tool cessation will bite ...&amp;quot; which matches closely the second, figurative, usage that Michael intended.&lt;br /&gt;
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Given my interpretation of his English, my &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; made the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; ungrammatical. Furthermore, if I removed the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;, a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; was required where the &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; was to close off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, else the event clause would include the &amp;quot;batci&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;nu sisti batci&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;event of cease-r biting ...&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The peril of trying to write Lojban poetry at this early stage is that the people who read it may not understand it, even if it IS correct. Figurative metaphors are sometimes chancy in English poetry - in Lojban, with no idiom, they are nonsense (and in most cases make illegitimate cultural references, a no-no in a culturally neutral language). Can good poetry be written using only &#039;analytic&#039; metaphors? I&#039;d like to see Michael try.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer, then, seems to be that my change was incorrect. Hopefully, we&#039;ll remember this when it comes time for Michael&#039;s first Lojban poetry book.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
.i ti jufra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le nunsti ne sekai leka pratci cu batci mu&#039;anai li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau ?xu &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i (ti CU {jufra &amp;lt;[lu ({&amp;lt;[le nunsti KU] [ne ({se kai} {le &amp;lt;ka [pratci VAU] KEI&amp;gt; KU}) GEhU]&amp;gt; cu &amp;lt;[batci mu&#039;a nai] VAU&amp;gt;} FAhO) li&#039;u] [vau xu]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This (?) is a sentence about (the quote) &amp;quot;the stopping, characterized by produce-tool-ness, is biting&amp;quot;, isn&#039;t it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: Michael&#039;s sentence was grammatical, but malglico (very &#039;English&#039;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Warning! The demonstratives &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; are unconscionably vague in written text! They presume that the listener has a way to tell what the speaker is indicating. In writing, the only way to do this would be to draw an arrow to the referenced item. (&amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; might be used to &#039;obviously&#039; refer to the letter itself, but &amp;quot;deipeza&amp;quot; is much clearer; better to avoid these by rule in writing.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English pronouns are extremely tricky to translate into Lojban, since we use them so sloppily in English. It will be the mark of malglico translation (as opposed to original Lojban expression) to see sloppy pronouns when Lojban has so many specific mechanisms for &#039;pronoun&#039; anaphora (oops! I promised to use &amp;quot;ba&#039;ivla&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this case, no ba&#039;ivla could be clear, since Michael intended to refer to what he had originally written in his letter to me, something I had to dig out of the files to check. Michael needed to be explicit: &amp;quot;lemi selsku&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;my expression&amp;quot;, and possibly even &amp;quot;le ba&#039;emi selsku&amp;quot; to emphasize that it was his version that he wanted me to check). Even using his English translation of the letter, I would not have assumed &#039;this&#039; to refer to his original letter; I only dug it out because there was no &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot; in the version printed in JL. Moral: an unambiguous language requires that its speakers remember to check for possible misunderstandings of vague references.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having gotten past the first word of the sentence, there is a major logic problem of label/reference confusion, a problem of the sort made famous in Through the Looking Glass, when Alice talks with Humpty Dumpty about what the song is, what the song is called, what the name is called, etc. Michael is saying in this bridi that something (&amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;) is a sentence about the quoted text given. The sentence he is referring to is not about the quoted text. He means that his sentence was intended to say the same thing as the quoted text. The term for this is &#039;indirect discourse&#039;, and is most familiar in English in the form &amp;quot;He said that he was going to the store.&amp;quot; The cmavo &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; accomplishes indirect reference in Lojban; it refers to the referent of any sumti it precedes. So Michael should have had &amp;quot;la&#039;elu&amp;quot; at the start of the quote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I added the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to have the true/false question &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; clearly apply to the whole sentence and not just to the quote; I wasn&#039;t sure what he was asking. Colloquial Lojban will almost certainly express yes/no questions with the &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; at the beginning - it is simplest grammatically. If the question is about a specific part of the sentence, something we indicate in English with emphatic stress (&amp;quot;You went to WORK, didn&#039;t you?&amp;quot;), then the question will probably still be pre-marked with &amp;quot;pau&amp;quot;, warning the listener to expect a question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i remai .uocai sera&#039;a le seltcita be &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le firgai mu&#039;anai vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ku vi le da&#039;amoi vlali&#039;i ku zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;co&amp;gt;&amp;gt; cu se setca fi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu fasnu cictcima li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ja&#039;e &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; (sei zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;za&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; basti ?xu be zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; se&#039;u) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;[i re mai uo cai] [({&amp;lt;[se ra&#039;a] [le (seltcita {be &amp;lt;lu [({le &amp;lt;firgai mu&#039;a nai&amp;gt; KU} vau) FAhO] li&#039;u&amp;gt; BEhO}) ku]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;vi [le ({da&#039;a moi} vlali&#039;i) ku]&amp;gt;} {zo co}) cu ({se setca} {&amp;lt;[fi (lu {&amp;lt;[fasnu cictcima] VAU&amp;gt; FAhO} li&#039;u)] [ja&#039;e ({lo&#039;u lo nalsti nu cictcima fasnu le&#039;u} {sei &amp;lt;zo za&#039;i&amp;gt; CU &amp;lt;[basti xu] [be (zo nu) BEhO]&amp;gt; se&#039;u})]&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Second (whew!) about the be-labelled-by &amp;quot;the face-cover ...&amp;quot;, in the next-to-last word-line, &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; is inserted into &amp;quot;event-ish wild-weather therefore with result &amp;quot;a non-stop act of wild-weather event&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; replaces, doesn&#039;t it, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments: If the &amp;quot;whew&amp;quot; applies to the stuff that preceded being complete, it should have gone before this sentence, which starts a new topic; Michael&#039;s usage suggests that this second point is his concluding one, which is not the case. The attitudinal would be clearest in a separate &#039;sentence&#039;: &amp;quot;... .i .uocai .i remai ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In an unambiguous language, quotation can be a problem, especially, as in Michael&#039;s letter, when he wants only a few words out of context. Lojban&#039;s grammar requires that a quotation be fully grammatical standing on its own, and most out-of-context quotes are not. The quote must also match the original, of course - you can&#039;t normally add words inside the quote to make the text grammatical without telling the listener/reader. In English print, editors abbreviate quotes and correct grammar by putting interpolated text in brackets and using ellipsis marks to indicate omitted text (e.g. &amp;quot;editors abbreviate ... [with] brackets ...&amp;quot; as a shortening of the last sentence). In Lojban, all punctuation must be spoken, so this isn&#039;t easy to do while remaining clear (we do have a way of expressing this when appropriate, though, which I&#039;ll get to in a moment).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, in Lojban, if what you want to quote is less than a complete sentence, or has omitted text, the easiest way to do this is with the &#039;error-quotes&#039; &amp;quot;lo&#039;u ... le&#039;u&amp;quot;. I changed Michael&#039;s second out-of-context quote to use these (as well as some others further on in the letter).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other way is to make the result grammatical and mark all the changes to the original quote. The Lojban words for &amp;quot;etc.&amp;quot; are &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mu&#039;anai&amp;quot;, The former is a grammatical particle, of course, marking that there are no more sumti being expressed. The latter is a discursive having no grammar, and meaning roughly &amp;quot;concluding my examples&amp;quot;; it thus does not serve the all-purpose role of English &amp;quot;...&amp;quot;. Lojban simply cannot do the latter with all the flexibility of English and still be grammatically unambiguous. I&#039;ll discuss this further below when I talk about Michael&#039;s comments on &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First an interlude on editorial manipulation of quotes (you probably won&#039;t mind a break from plowing line by line through the letter.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve put several features in the language to make manipulating quotes easier, some of which I&#039;ve added to Michael&#039;s letter. However, for extensive use of out-of-context quotes, only &amp;quot;lo&#039;u... le&#039;u&amp;quot; is practical if you want to keep clear what was quoted and what wasn&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To summarize the quote manipulation features briefly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* the word &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; is the most important. Attaching like a discursive to a word or a construct, it says that word or construct wasn&#039;t actually part of the original quote. This allows you to insert text in an ungrammatical text to make it grammatical, while making it clear what you added. The result is similar to an editor&#039;s bracketing text that was added (usually after omitting a longer text in a quote) to allow the remainder to make sense (e.g. &amp;quot;The ... [woman] sat next to me&amp;quot;). (By the way, for sticklers who ask how to quote text with the word &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; embedded, a second &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; after the first says that the first is really there. We think we&#039;ve provided adequately for the infinite series of complications that can be concocted along this line of analysis.)&lt;br /&gt;
* the word &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; followed by &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; to show that the word &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; isn&#039;t really part of the quote can be used to replace the &amp;quot;...&amp;quot; ellipsis in a quote provided that the result is grammatical. This usually requires some other modifications to the quote, each marked with &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; as well.&lt;br /&gt;
* the &#039;unquote parentheses&#039; &amp;quot;to&#039;a...to&#039;i&amp;quot;, again with &amp;quot;to&#039;a&amp;quot; marked with &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; to show they are to be taken metalinguistically, are used to interrupt a quote to get back to the &amp;quot;quoter&#039;s&amp;quot; level of the sentence. The classic use of this is for conversation quotations (&amp;quot;That window&amp;quot;, he said, pointing down the hallway, &amp;quot;is dirty&amp;quot;). In such a split quote, the two pieces are each ungrammatical, but the whole is grammatical. The division in the text is purely stylistic, providing a certain emphasis. Note that the material between the two quotes is also fully grammatical. In Lojban we express this by having the quote be the basic text, jumping out-of-quote with &amp;quot;to&#039;asa&#039;a&amp;quot;, and then returning to the quote with &amp;quot;to&#039;i&amp;quot; when the commentary is complete. Again, both the inside of the parentheses and the outside have to be completely grammatical as separate units. Furthermore, the &#039;unquote&#039; has the grammar of a parenthetical remark - a &#039;free modifier&#039;, and is mildly constrained on where it can be inserted (not in the middle of a digit string representing a number, for example).&lt;br /&gt;
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For those who ask, interrupted quotes are important to Lojban for literary usage (they are seldom used in spoken language); we added them after Athelstan tried to translate Saki (see JL10). They are used in all natural languages that we&#039;ve investigated, with few constraints on where the interruption can occur. The alternative is the stylistically &#039;boring&#039; &amp;quot;He said &#039;...&#039;. She said &#039;...&#039;. He said &#039;...&#039;.&amp;quot; which is the &#039;natural grammar&#039; form for both &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bacru&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Others ask why have all these unfriendly limits and constraints, as Michael does later in his letter. The answer is &#039;unambiguity&#039;, of course. For these people, there is the &#039;error quote&#039; that tells the listener to treat the quote as a literal quote, but to not worry about the grammar of the content. (For out-of-context quotes, though, putting a &amp;quot;li&#039;o&amp;quot; discursively after the ending quote would show that text was omitted, a useful notice that makes it clear that the &#039;error quotes&#039; were used for out-of-context ellipsis, and not to mark truly ungrammatical expression.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, finally answering Michael&#039;s question as I understood it, which is based on his JL11 poem entitled &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot;, if you insert &amp;quot;co&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;nu fasnu cictcima&amp;quot;, you get &amp;quot;nu fasnu co cictcima&amp;quot;. The former means &amp;quot;event of being an occurring type of wild-weather&amp;quot;, the latter means &amp;quot;event of being an event of-type wild weather&amp;quot;, and is equivalent to &amp;quot;nu cictcima fasnu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;event of being a wild-weather event&amp;quot;). The difference between the two forms is that the final brivla determines the place structure for any attached sumti. Since this selbri is bare within a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction, that criterion does not apply here (the place structure of a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction is constant, and there are no expressed sumti anyway). The choice then is based on whether the event that Michael wants to describe (it is inherently an event because of the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;) is a &amp;quot;(weather type of event)-event&amp;quot; or an &amp;quot;(occurring-type of-weather)-event&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; still seems redundant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael also asks about &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; in a metalinguistic parenthesis (he originally had this parenthesis in the middle of the quote - this would have required &amp;quot;sa&#039;a&amp;quot; as mentioned above, and made the quote grammatically difficult to follow, where in this case the exact grammar was relevant to his question).&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; could indeed be used instead of &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to a subset of event/state abstractions, for which the general word is &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; states are those event situations which are being seen as essentially stable and uniform within the event, which have either a finite or an infinite duration, as opposed to being a point event, and which, if either starting or stopping boundary exists, it is effectively a single point. Thus we normally think of &#039;being awake&#039; as a &#039;state&#039;, whereas being hit by a car is a point event, expressed by the achievement abstractor &amp;quot;mu&#039;e&amp;quot;. (Obviously, we don&#039;t necessarily think of being hit by a car as an achievement, but by Aristotelian logic it is, based on the &#039;shape&#039; of the event, called the &amp;quot;event contour&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
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I may write more on abstractions for either JL14 or JL15, since they relate also to the changes made to the tense design. Writing them up will help me in creating the textbook sections on these topics. But no promises.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;fasnu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; ca nalsarcu .i&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i &amp;lt;[zo fasnu] [ca ({nalsarcu i&#039;a} VAU)]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; is unnecessary (Acceptance!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.iku&#039;i ta rinka lenu mi ninzga lo puze&#039;u nandu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i ku&#039;i} {ta CU &amp;lt;rinka [(le {nu &amp;lt;mi CU [ninzga ({lo &amp;lt;[pu ze&#039;u] nandu&amp;gt; KU} VAU)]&amp;gt; KEI} KU) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But, that causes that I now-observe an in-the-past, for-a-long-time, difficulty.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi su&#039;oroi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo paroi tortei bo fasnu gi&#039;e drata pilno fi lo ranji clatei bo fasnu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i (mi {&amp;lt;su&#039;o roi&amp;gt; &amp;lt;[(pilno {&amp;lt;[zo nu] [lo ({pa roi} {tortei bo fasnu}) KU]&amp;gt; VAU}) gi&#039;e ({drata pilno} {&amp;lt;fi [lo (ranji {clatei bo fasnu}) KU]&amp;gt; VAU})] VAU&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I a-few-times use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for a one-time, short-time-interval, event, and otherly use ... for a continuing, long-time-interval event.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: Michael had used &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; here where the second &amp;quot;pilno&amp;quot; appears (&amp;quot;... gi&#039;e drata go&#039;i fi ...&amp;quot;). &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;, however, refers to the bridi in the previous sentence, not to the first half of this compound bridi. One of &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;&#039;s major purposes, is to enable answering &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; questions. If &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; counted bridi that were pieces of sentences, you would have trouble answering a &amp;quot;xu&amp;quot; at the beginning of this compound sentence asking whether the entirety were true.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no member of lexeme GOhA for Michael&#039;s purpose, either - there are several other ways to rephrase what he wrote. For example, in a compound bridi where there is a common selbri like this, you can rearrange the sentence. I&#039;ve used subscripted tenses to deal with the dichotomy of times, and added in the dichotomy discursives &amp;quot;zu&#039;u&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;zu&#039;unai&amp;quot; to show their usage:&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi pilno zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;nu&amp;gt;&amp;gt; lo zu&#039;u paroi tortei bo fasnu ne su&#039;oroikuxipa .e lo zu&#039;unai ranji clatei bo fasnu ne su&#039;oroikuxire&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; for on-the-one-hand a one-time, short-time-interval, sometimes1, AND, on the other hand a continuing, long-time-interval event, sometimes2.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other ways to express the time dichotomy include &#039;termset&#039; constructions that allow logical connections between sets of sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i re frica valsi cu sarcu vau pe&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [({re BOI} {frica valsi} KU) cu (sarcu {vau pe&#039;i})]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Two different words are necessary, I opine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Response: Indeed. And we have five (or more). As mentioned above, &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; is the general, abstract event/state term, while we have for words for 4 various kinds of events/states, also within lexeme &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;. In most communications, it is not necessary that you be specific about the &#039;event contour&#039;; it is irrelevant or obvious from the context. On the other hand, if you wish to make a distinction in which the kind of event is important, you can do this as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban concept is to minimize metaphysical assumptions. In this case, by this, we mean that we don&#039;t require the speaker to assume that being awake is a &#039;state&#039;, while being hit by a car is an &#039;achievement&#039;. You can talk about the &#039;state&#039; of being hit by a car or the &#039;achievement&#039; point-event of being awake. The former is a bit mind-boggling, I&#039;ll admit; the latter occurs for me sometimes when Nora gets up in the morning to go to work, at the inhuman hour of 6AM. Of course, you can choose not to decide how to think of the event, and use &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;, since Lojban doesn&#039;t require you to specify the type of event in order for it to be an event. This is the same argument that justifies optional tense in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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.ije .ie mi pujeca luzypli (to tai zirjbo cai vau toi) zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;go&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;i&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; je ie&amp;gt; &amp;lt;mi [(pu je ca) ({luzypli &amp;lt;to [(tai {&amp;lt;zirjbo cai&amp;gt; vau}) FAhO] toi&amp;gt;} {&amp;lt;zo go&#039;i&amp;gt; VAU})]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;And (I agree) I then-and-now loose-use, (by method of purple Lojban!), &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: The logical connective between sentences here seems unnecessary. The &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; at the beginning of most Lojban sentences sentence can be translated as the run-on &amp;quot;and&amp;quot; that often occurs at the beginning of English sentences like Michael&#039;s; in Lojban you have to run-on, unless you are done talking or changing subjects. malglico!&lt;br /&gt;
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(You use the logical connectives between sentences when there is logical import to the joining. For example, in &amp;quot;da blanu .i da klama&amp;quot;, because there is no logical connective, the two &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;s could refer to different &#039;something&#039;s. In &amp;quot;da blanu .ije da klama&amp;quot;, both &amp;quot;da&amp;quot;s are &#039;bound&#039; under the same logical scope, and hence must refer to the same thing.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael loosely-uses the English meaning of the word &amp;quot;loose&amp;quot; in the lujvo &amp;quot;luzypli&amp;quot;. We want Lojban words to have a simple, pure meaning, without importing all the connotations of English. I can think of several meanings for the tanru &#039;loose-user&#039; that keep us from wanting to import this phrase from English. What I think Michael intended is more clearly rendered as &amp;quot;jbige&#039;a pilno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;approximate-grammar use&amp;quot;) or &amp;quot;jbidra pilno&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;approximately-correct use&amp;quot;) With these clearer tanru, Michael&#039;s comment practically answers itself.&lt;br /&gt;
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Michael also probably wanted &amp;quot;ta&#039;i&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;tai&amp;quot; in the parenthesis. Both words convey some senses of English &amp;quot;in manner&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ta&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to a form, while &amp;quot;tai&amp;quot; refers to a method. The context indicates that he expresses in the form of purple-Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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.iku&#039;i .ei zasti fa le nuncumki be lo naldikni se spicru poi kakne lenu sisti vi lo crastu mu&#039;anai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;{i ku&#039;i ei} {zasti &amp;lt;[fa (le {nuncumki &amp;lt;be [(lo {naldikni &amp;lt;se spicru&amp;gt;} KU) (poi {kakne &amp;lt;[le (nu {sisti &amp;lt;[vi (lo {crastu mu&#039;a nai} KU)] VAU&amp;gt;} KEI) KU] VAU&amp;gt;} KUhO)] BEhO&amp;gt;} KU)] VAU&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;But (Obligation!) existing is the possibility of non-regular piece-utterances which are able at ceasing at-the in-front-of-site (End of example).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Good sentence, with sumti rearrangement to liven it up. The relative clause gives a pleasantly Lojbanic active sense in talking about the &#039;abilities&#039; of an utterance. The clause could more briefly be expressed with a &#039;potential tense&#039;, lexeme CAhA: &amp;quot;poi ka&#039;e sisti vi lo crastu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;is-innately-capable-of ceasing at-the in-front-of-site&amp;quot;). Of course, in a sentence based on &amp;quot;cumki&amp;quot;, the tense can be optionally omitted entirely, since &#039;possibility&#039; implies &#039;timeless capability&#039; in most circumstances.&lt;br /&gt;
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I unfortunately can&#039;t agree with Michael&#039;s statement. As I stated above, the grammar cannot provide total flexibility to just stop any old place and have the listener able to unambiguously determine what you meant. Pragmatically, this may be desirable, but most incomplete sentences are grammatically ambiguous. My favorite example is the English &amp;quot;I went to the window quickly and ...&amp;quot;, which has innumerable possible follow-ons, using several different grammatical forms. In English literary usage, ambiguity is permissible and sometimes desirable. In Lojban, it cannot be, or we don&#039;t have any special claim as a language. Lojban, on the other hand, has expressive flexibility that isn&#039;t possible in English, derived from the increased varieties of vagueness (semantic ambiguity) that Lojban gains by not having an ambiguous grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pragmatically, whether people will speak Lojban grammatically, or will &#039;loose-use&#039; Lojban is unknown. Michael seems to have enough command of the language to help set the example for the former, though this will undoubtedly cramp some of his poetic style. But then, Lojban poetry that uses Lojban&#039;s unique distinction between grammatical and semantic ambiguity will truly be a new art form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, as a aside that seems relevant here, John Hodges queries Michael for comments on the following (with input sought from anyone else with an opinion):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I&#039;ve heard that poetry gains beauty from a disciplined structure, that precision is not the enemy of art. If so, great. I have noticed that the first thing many people try to do with a &#039;logical&#039; language is write poetry in it. This may be only because it is new and therefore exotic.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Presuming John&#039;s intent: on the other hand, Lojban may impose a discipline that may make it possible to achieve &#039;beauty&#039; that isn&#039;t possible in a language as unstructured as English or indeed in any natural language. What do people think on this subject?&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ta&#039;onai cimai sera&#039;a le romoi pemci ku le da&#039;aremoi vlali&#039;i cu binxo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u lo pamei seizga le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vau lu&#039;anai .io&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(i ta&#039;o nai ci mai) ({&amp;lt;[se ra&#039;a] [le ({ro moi} pemci) ku]&amp;gt; &amp;lt;le [(da&#039;a re moi) vlali&#039;i] KU&amp;gt;} cu {binxo &amp;lt;[lo&#039;u lo pa mei seizga le&#039;u] [vau lu&#039;anai io]&amp;gt;})]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Returning to subject), thirdly, about the last poem, the antepenultimate word-line becomes &amp;quot;a single self-observer&amp;quot;, precisely, respectfully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Some confusion here as to which poem Michael meant. Michael really means the next-to-last poem in JL11; the last one pertains to Sapir-Whorf. From examining my comments, Michael is choosing one of my alternate expressions for the line in question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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.i banzu fa ta&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i [banzu ({fa ta} VAU)]&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;Enough, is that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Another dangling demonstrative. Who knows what &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; is? The bare &amp;quot;.i banzu&amp;quot; would have been more clear, and Lojbanic, although this sentence is the truly appropriate place for the &amp;quot;.uocai&amp;quot; he put in an earlier paragraph, as anyone who has plowed through all this can agree.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o levi pemci cu pilno pa leimi terga&#039;i be fe le sumti tcita purste (sei mi camdji djuno be leri romoi tarmi se&#039;u)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;ni&#039;o &amp;lt;[({&amp;lt;le [vi pemci] KU&amp;gt; cu &amp;lt;pilno [({pa BOI} {lei &amp;lt;mi [terga&#039;i (be {fe &amp;lt;le [(sumti tcita) (purste {sei mi CU &amp;lt;camdji [djuno (be {le &amp;lt;ri [(ro moi) tarmi]&amp;gt; KU} BEhO)]&amp;gt; se&#039;u})] KU&amp;gt;} BEhO)]&amp;gt; KU}) VAU]&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;This poem uses one of my modifications of the argument-label previous-list [I intensely want to know its (the list&#039;s) last form.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Excellent. Hopefully, Michael will be at least temporarily satisfied by the cmavo list enclosed.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi pilno &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sexebe&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; zo &amp;lt;&amp;lt;be&#039;i&amp;gt;&amp;gt; vi le pemci noi se tcita &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu le te pemci .e le se binxo vau li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;i {mi CU &amp;lt;pilno [({&amp;lt;lo&#039;u se xe be&#039;i le&#039;u&amp;gt; &amp;lt;zo be&#039;i&amp;gt;} {vi &amp;lt;[le pemci KU] [noi ({se tcita} {&amp;lt;lu [({&amp;lt;le [te pemci] KU&amp;gt; e &amp;lt;le [se binxo] KU&amp;gt;} vau) FAhO] li&#039;u&amp;gt; VAU}) KUhO]&amp;gt;}) VAU]&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;I use ??&amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot; at the poem, which incidentally is labelled as &amp;quot;The Poet and the Thing Become&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Michael used *&amp;quot;mi pilno zo sexebe&#039;i zo be&#039;i ...&amp;quot; in his original. &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; is a very picky single word quote - it truly wants a single Lojban word. &amp;quot;sexebe&#039;i&amp;quot; is a 3-word compound, and the &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; quoted only the first word of it. Lest you think me to be picky, Michael&#039;s result was actually grammatical, if nonsense, parsing as (I use &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; with transmission media &amp;quot;be&#039;i&amp;quot;...), since &amp;quot;xebe&#039;i&amp;quot; is a valid sumti tcita, and in fact was probably the one he wanted based on his English for the poem. A double conversion is meaningless for a modal, which can only specify one place the im-plied bridi relationship; using lexeme SE before a modal indicates that the indicated non-first place of the associated brivla describes the relationship of the attached sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The cmavo list enclosed with this issue exhaustively interprets the modals for first two places associated with each lexeme BAI member, and gives the identified &#039;useful&#039; ones that access at-least-third places (some of the 2nd place conversions seem redundant to the unmarked 1st-place modals, such as &amp;quot;du&#039;i&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;sedu&#039;i&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i [*&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lo&#039;u sa&#039;a]&lt;br /&gt;
::: ko mi zasyspo&lt;br /&gt;
::: .ije mi ba vuzyvuzyxru&lt;br /&gt;
::: sexebe&#039;i do&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i makfa&lt;br /&gt;
::: .i roroi ku&lt;br /&gt;
::: mi&#039;o zukte ra&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; sa&#039;a vau sa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i ({lo&#039;u sa&#039;a ko mi zasyspo i je mi ba vuzyvuzyxru se xe be&#039;i do i makfa i ro roi ku mi&#039;o zukte ra le&#039;u sa&#039;a} vau sa&#039;a)] FAhO&amp;gt;})&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted quote for ungrammatical text]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Temporarily-destroy me;&lt;br /&gt;
and I will yonder-yonder return&lt;br /&gt;
through the medium of you.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s magic.&lt;br /&gt;
All the time,&lt;br /&gt;
we do it (with purpose)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&amp;quot; editorially inserted end-quote and &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to make the non-grammatical quoted poem a valid &#039;incomplete sentence&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Note that the parser makes no attempt to figure out what is inside the quotes, which is why &amp;quot;lo&#039;u...le&#039;u&amp;quot; exist. There were several minor problems with this succinct poem that totalled to an overall bad effect; one of the problems I had to correct to even legally put it in error quotes instead of non-Lojban quotes, which seemed unfair to Michael, who made a game attempt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Of course the erroneous sumti tcita made the text ungrammatical. This is actually the only grammar error in the whole poem, but warranted the error quotes.&lt;br /&gt;
# The lujvo in the second word is properly formed, but Michael&#039;s original word *&amp;quot;vuzvuzyxru&amp;quot; was not. The latter breaks up morphologically, with the CV at the beginning falling off in spoken form, resulting in *&amp;quot;vu zvuzyxru&amp;quot;, which is based on the long-rafsi form for a hypothetical Lojban gismu *&amp;quot;zvuza&amp;quot; (or some other final vowel). The test described in the lujvo-making algorithm applies here: if you start off with a CVC rafsi, and the first consonant cluster is a permissible initial, the CV will fall off. You have to break up the permissible initial with a hyphen &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; to keep this from happening.&lt;br /&gt;
# The only other serious problem is &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; which has no legal referent, since all of the preceding sumti are personal pronouns which cannot be anaphorized (oops! se ba&#039;ivla). In any case, from Michael&#039;s English translation, he probably wants &amp;quot;lenu go&#039;i&amp;quot; or some other member of GOhA, depending on what &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; is - the English is too ambiguous for me to guess. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;On the other hand, another possibility is &amp;quot;le go&#039;i&amp;quot;, an option only because he uses &amp;quot;It&#039;s magic&amp;quot; as the translation for the observative &amp;quot;makfa&amp;quot;, which has no sumti. This suggests that the &amp;quot;it&amp;quot; in the last line is the same it that is ellipsized in the observative. This, if it was what Michael intended, would be an new and unforeseen use of Lojban&#039;s unique capability for grammatically unambiguous ellipsis, a truly Lojbanic poetic usage.&lt;br /&gt;
# Not quite as bad are some curious and possibly malglico word choices. However, it is possible that Michael actually intended what his word choices mean: &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zasyspo&amp;quot; expands literally to &amp;quot;temporary-destroyer&amp;quot;; the underlying tanru suggests to me that the brivla relates to temporarily performing acts of destruction, as opposed to destroying with temporary effect, which is what the rest of the poem implies. Of course, both are possible and Michael may have intended the semantic ambiguity. But I don&#039;t like it &#039;enshrined&#039; as a lujvo when I can&#039;t be sure what it means. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;quot;roroi&amp;quot; is a version of &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; that means literally &amp;quot;at all times&amp;quot; or constantly over the unspecified interval of time. The colloquial English &amp;quot;all-the-time&amp;quot; suggests one of the aspect tenses like &amp;quot;habitually&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;regularly&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;typically&amp;quot;, all found in lexeme TAhE, might have been what Michael intended.&lt;br /&gt;
#I suspect that Michael made the bad lujvo discussed in 2. above partially because it looks and sounds interesting. It makes me uncomfortable though, to make a lujvo solely for that purpose, when the lujvo-based bridi has no grammatical advantage (in terms of grouping or terminators) or Zipfean advantage (length) over the shorter and simpler &amp;quot;mi bavuvu xruti&amp;quot;, which I believe is both grammatical and means what Michael intended, keeping the tenses in the tense place. I gave rafsi to the locators of lexeme VA to allow potential for relative lujvo such as &amp;quot;the here-sitter and &amp;quot;the there-sitter&amp;quot;, say, for use by a teacher in a classroom, where situations might frequently arise for using such relative words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t pose an alternative for Michael&#039;s poem. He needs to re-express what he meant. I ended up not doing more of his poetry in this issue (including a few more poems in the same letter) because a lot of his poems have word-choice questions of this sort that I can&#039;t quickly resolve. (This means, Michael, that I&#039;d like you to go through your poems one more time, looking for the types of problems I&#039;ve discussed here. Also, try back-translating your poems &#039;literally&#039; without your English handy.) Michael&#039;s doing an excellent job of exercising the language though. I just wish he had a parser so he could see how some of his sentences are taken. Perhaps the parser outputs above will help him and others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s expressions are very complex, and sometimes I suspect, very English in phrasing. I wrote the instructions for using the machine grammar specifically with people like him in mind. Several of you, like Michael, want to express very complicated thoughts in Lojban right from the start. The only way I can see to accomplish this, without taking the extensive analysis that this letter required, is for people to exercise building up sentences from smaller, simpler pieces, as described in the instructions for the machine grammar, then seeing what they&#039;ve built. If John Hodges is right about discipline and art, then this kind of disciplined grammar development may be far more useful to an artist than creative tanru and lujvo-making, at which Michael is clearly exceptional.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now its your turn. I&#039;d like to report next issue that we&#039;re pleasantly drowning in Lojban text from all 110+ level 3 students and a few of the rest of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_12_moi&amp;diff=124083</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 12 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_12_moi&amp;diff=124083"/>
		<updated>2020-08-14T03:21:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 12 - May 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 90 - 15-18 Jun 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside. Also: Negation, Indicators, News, and more.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all po- tential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 350. We now have over 660 people on our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category. Balances reflect contributions received thru 21 May 1990. Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level R - This is a Review Copy for Publications &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 3 - Level 2 materials and lesson materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If your level number has an &#039;*&#039; by it, we need to hear from you. This indicates that we have had no contact from you in over a year, and either have not paid for any materials, or have a negative balance in excess of $25.00. If we have not heard from you before late July (JL13/LK13), we will have to lower you to &#039;Level 0&#039; at that time. We&#039;re perfectly willing to send JL to people who cannot pay, as long as we get feedback indicating that you are using the materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue is coming out only a month after the last, as we try to catch up on our tardy publication from last year. Thus, no Lojban text this issue, except for incidental examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The issue is dominated by two long papers, describing the proposed modifications for negation and indicators/attitudinals. These are comprehensive, even more so than the textbook discussion will be. The negation paper may be tough reading, but has lots of examples. The attitudinal paper is lacking in usage examples primarily because of time, and the lack of a comparable system in English. The two papers are bound separately from the rest of the issue; many &#039;level 3&#039; students will wish to bind these papers with their draft textbook materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our regular news section includes information about LogFest 90, and we also present several lesser proposals to be considered and decided at LogFest. We want your opinion on these.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please forgive any substandard editing, especially odd formats. We had a hard disk failure the day this was to go to the printer, and this represents an intricate but hurried reconstruction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest Plans						       --3&lt;br /&gt;
  In Memoriam -	Faith Rich and Preston Maxwell		       --5&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Research and Development				       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Growth and Publicity					       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Education						      --10&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News - Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans		      --10&lt;br /&gt;
  Products and Policy					      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  News About the Institute				      --14&lt;br /&gt;
A Brief	Introduction to	Predicates and Place Structures, by Athelstan --15&lt;br /&gt;
Proposals to be	Decided	at LogFest			      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses			      --27&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Proposed Revision of Attitudinals and Indicators, On Lojban Negation, Some	More Proposed Logos, Map to&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest 90&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can join the Lojban news-group by sending your mailing address to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and traffic to the news-group can be sent to: lojban-list@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;.uu.net&amp;quot; trailer on the above address is likely to change soon. We&#039;ll notify you by e-mail when we have firm information, and provide updated information here next issue. There will be some transition period after the change, during which this address will still work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. For example, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly number of you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that some people choose to write under a pseudonym which is initial-like, as jyjym. did last issue - we prefer to print names of our correspondents, but will consider allowing a pseudonym if the author requests privacy and we feel the writing is important enough to publish. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he prefers to be addressed as &#039;pc&#039;. As an incidental news item, pc is getting married on 18 May, and his new bride will be accompanying him when he comes to LogFest in June.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Jim Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;The Institute&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LogFest Plans ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 90 will be held from Friday thru Monday the weekend of 15-18 June 1990; most of the planned activities will be within the weekend proper. The annual meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. is set for Sunday morning, the 17th, by our bylaws, and is the one absolutely fixed item for the gathering. All other dates and times discussed below are subject to change depending on what attendees want to do and/or talk about. This meeting is for YOU, so make sure we know what is important to you. Especially let us know if you can only come for part of the weekend, and have a particular topic you want to talk about; we&#039;ll try to move things around to fit you in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the feedback we&#039;ve been getting, we&#039;re expecting more people at LogFest this year than in previous years. For the benefit of our planning, please let us know if you are coming (or if you &#039;might be&#039; coming - we don&#039;t need ironclad commitments). There&#039;s no penalty for not doing so - we simply have a smoother, better planned gathering if you do.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have plenty of sleeping space, especially for those with sleeping bags and/or tents. Families are welcome, provided that they have sleeping bags too (there are motels within a couple of miles, but the DC area isn&#039;t cheap); we also need financial help if we&#039;re going to feed families.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, if your coming depends on finding transportation to Washington DC, let us know. There may be someone else coming from the same place or direction that you can rideshare with. This is especially likely for the Northeast corridor, from Boston down to Washington. Be sure to specify what dates you want to attend, the earliest you can leave home and the latest you can return home to make ride-sharing feasible. If you have access to the computer network, you might also consider posting a notice on &#039;lojban-list&#039;, so that others who are thinking &amp;quot;maybe&amp;quot; will more likely consider going, with the knowledge of reduced transportation costs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What will be going on at LogFest? We will have two major themes this time:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* How can we help more people learn Lojban easier?&lt;br /&gt;
* What short term applications for Lojban are worth highest priority?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the language and declaring a conditional or unconditional baseline (freeze) on the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be several things going on simultaneously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Some main track discussions, generally related to the themes above, which Bob will probably be leading or helping out with;&lt;br /&gt;
* 1 or 2 computer rooms, with 2-3 MS-DOS machines, Art Wieners&#039; UNIX machine, and whatever else people bring. Art and others will usually be in there demonstrating existing software, and working on new software including the parser. There will be a little bit of computer talk on the main track, but we will generally be trying to make it so non-computer types can understand what is going on.&lt;br /&gt;
* Athelstan, and possibly others, will be helping with new Lojbanists. Athelstan will give mini-lessons at times scheduled below (if there are people interested then), but he will also be available impromptu for mini-lessons, explanations of grammar points, and demonstration of the flash card technique.&lt;br /&gt;
* On occasion throughout the weekend we&#039;ll hold short sessions of all-Lojban conversation - typically a half hour or less so that non-speakers don&#039;t get bored, or frustrated. These sessions will probably occur in between main discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specific schedules as they stand: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Friday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7PM - Athelstan mini-lesson (about 1 hr.), if there are people present who haven&#039;t been to one&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8PM - After the mini-lesson (or starting earlier if there is none), there will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso Grebogi&#039;s proposal (later in this issue) to have Lojban image languages using gismu based on single languages to make them easier to learn. Side issues may include applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including using such teaching to help them learn English better), and other aspects of making Lojban easier to learn for people than it currently is. Dr. Yorke will be at the session, but has schedule constraints that mean that he can only attend early in the weekend, so the Friday night schedule is relatively fixed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday morning - additional discussion about teaching and learning Lojban, including any leftover discussions from the night before. Bob hopes to have new textbook lesson drafts for people to look at and comment on, so here&#039;s your chance to make a difference before the book is finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If there is interest, we will start side discussions at that point on how to organize and lead a class when you don&#039;t know the language yourself. Athelstan and John Hodges will both be there, and both have done this now. Eric Tiedemann will, we hope, be there to report on the initial work by the New York City class. We want to stimulate new class efforts, even if only 2-3 people are participating. Athelstan is hoping to launch 2 classes, one in Virginia and one in Maryland, at LogFest or immediately afterwards. We are also considering instituting a weekly Lojban conversation session to start with or shortly after LogFest (this may end up having to wait until fall - simply because Athelstan may be spread too thin.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1PM - Another Lojban mini-lesson, if there is demand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday afternoon will include a discussion of voice recognition, the Lojban parser, AI work and various other computer processing projects. Art Wieners will tell about his fairly extensive efforts, including word recognition and analysis, as well as Artificial Intelligence applications for Lojban. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who has been leading the parser efforts, is having to drop out of Lojban work for a while, and won&#039;t be coming. We will be looking for new parser helpers (C programming language, preferably in an MS-DOS environment), and there may be technical side-discussions. Eric Raymond, host of &#039;lojban-list&#039;, our computer network mail-server, has been working on porting LogFlash to Unix, and will talk about what he&#039;s done. Nora and I will talk about planned new software and enhancements, and we&#039;ll accept proposals for others. All software (and other products) will be available for demonstration, examination, and (of course) purchase. (Oh, yes; and everybody in the world will be trying to convince Bob and Nora to switch from MS-DOS to UNIX; Good luck!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday nite - Bob will lead discussions about textbook plans, dictionary plans, and take suggestions. We&#039;ll also talk about the recent change proposals to the language. Non-controversial ones will get a quick decision; the rest will be deferred for further discussion on Sunday or later - all attendees have a vote.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday morning is the la lojbangirz. business meeting. Expect business-y things. Most people tend to sleep in late on Sunday morning after two late nights, so we&#039;ve put this at a low ebb time to keep from boring people. We hope to finish the meeting by noon. The agenda is not yet known. Topics typically include finances, plans and priorities. All attendees are welcome to participate informally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday afternoon, we will discuss gismu list change proposals, hopefully briefly, and make a group decision on whether we are ready to baseline the Lojban grammar. If so, the language is DONE!!!! Practically speaking, expect a conditional baseline, possibly excluding MEX, and possibly waiting either for the parser or the textbook to be completed or both, before it becomes a full freeze. (More on this below, under R &amp;amp; D).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
around 3PM? - A final scheduled mini-lesson; this time an advanced lesson for people who have already had the basic mini-lesson. This may continue into a longer tutorial, if there is demand, but will otherwise last an hour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday nite and Monday will be left unscheduled for whatever comes up - invariably something runs overtime. Besides, many out-of-towners will have left by then, though pc and probably Art Wieners will still be here. pc and family plan to arrive on Wednesday the 13th. Art usually comes for a full week, but his dates are not yet known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other activities will be dependent on demand:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some have suggested a group effort to write or translate something, perhaps a short essay reporting on LogFest. As a possibility, we have an ancient back burner project to update Jim Carter&#039;s short story in old Loglan to current Lojban, and a similar effort involving an old story by Bob Chassell. These are non-trivial and will not be finished in a weekend, but are easier than composing raw text; people can get a good start and those who want to can continue on their own. Carter&#039;s work, in particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re-making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are based on no longer acceptable tanru. In addition, we&#039;ve found that the current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier lists, making some tanru simpler or even unnecessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be other side discussions as people desire. Speak up now with your favorite topic. Some possibilities include lujvo making, and good tanru for various words, etc. One topic we&#039;re not sure how many are interested in is the making of le&#039;avla borrowings; any decisions on the algorithm have to be made before the textbook session on the topic is written.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will be having Lojban conversation as mentioned above, possibly with on longer session towards the end (when more people feel comfortable with trying to say things) if there is demand for it. To keep costs down, we need people to bring their own word lists, etc., though we&#039;ll have inventory if needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are thinking about ordering stuff, it saves us postage to give it to you there and let you carry it home. But we need to have a good number of people pay for stuff there in order to do this. We will probably have no money in the bank after LogFest to restock inventory, except what we collect at the meeting. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logistics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We generally put up a good spread of food to keep people from going hungry We&#039;re asking for contributions of $5-15 per day towards costs (and preferably more, if you can help), but there is no mandatory admission charge. If we don&#039;t get enough volunteer cash flow, this will be the last year of voluntary giving. To pay for LogFest, we will probably need more than the $600 spent last year, depending on attendance, which we expect to be double or more. (That $600 doesn&#039;t include all costs, only those paid by la lojbangirz. - it averages out to about $30 per person, including those who only came for part of the weekend.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As mentioned above, families are welcome if you bring sleeping bags and tent or trailer. We&#039;ll have at least one adult and one 13-year-old non-Lojbanist here for the weekend, so there will probably be some side activities such as sightseeing in DC or shopping at the malls, or whatever for disinterested spouses and kids. Let us know if you&#039;re bring extras along so we can plan for food, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are close to DC&#039;s Metro system and right off the freeway. There are detailed directions and a map enclosed with this issue. Of course, if you have any questions, just ask.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== In Memoriam ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve recently heard of the deaths of two noteworthy supporters of the language, Faith Rich (Chicago, IL) and Preston Maxwell (Seattle, WA). Our sympathy goes to their families and friends, and we of the Lojban community will miss them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Faith Rich has been for the last several years the most prolific inventor of tanru and new words for the language. While she did most of her work with The Loglan Institute, she also has assisted la lojbangirz., especially when we were attempting to baseline the gismu list. Faith may have devised over 3000 tanru and lujvo as part of the Eaton project, an attempt to provide comprehensive vocabulary coverage for the most frequently used concepts in 4 European languages. A long-time supporter of the international language movement, she was in her late 70&#039;s when doing this work, and had expressed no hope of living until the language reached fruition. Yet, she was a fervent believer that Loglan/Lojban was worthwhile and important work, and provided hard effort and constant support over the years.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The community knows less of Preston Maxwell, who joined us only a couple of years ago. However, Preston was one of the first people to try to learn Lojban on his own. Preston was a skilled translator with experience in several non-Indo-European languages. He was especially intrigued by Lojban&#039;s attempt to free itself of European biases and to support structures and concepts of non-Indo-European tongues. Some of his early writings, Lojban versions of non-Indo-European short tales, were published in earlier JL issues; these were the first attempts at writing &#039;natural Lojban&#039;, and the first writings by someone who had not previously learned earlier versions of Loglan. Preston also attempted to organize the Seattle community, though without success. Hopefully, others there will be inspired to proceed in his stead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These two deaths remind us of our mortality. People are always saying that they&#039;ll learn Lojban &#039;later&#039;, when they have &#039;more time&#039;, or when the language is &#039;done&#039;, or has &#039;practical use&#039;. Faith and Preston didn&#039;t wait till &#039;later&#039;, they made time for Lojban, and they found reasons why working on the language now is worthwhile. In their memory, we ask other Lojbanists to do the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Should we bore you by complaining about finances again? We have to. It wouldn&#039;t be JL, otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The best I can say is that we are paying our bills, or at least most of them. Our legal bills have to be paid off slowly because of our rule limiting legal and other expenses to 30% of all expenses. The side benefit of that rule is that the money reserved for those legal bills is the only thing keeping our bank balance positive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To keep us financially afloat, we&#039;ve figuratively &#039;put the brakes on&#039; spending by la lojbangirz. We&#039;ve spent about $3300 this year as of the publication of this issue, only 3/4 of what we had spent last year by this time. Unfortunately, our income is similarly lagging behind last year&#039;s. In spite of over 50% more people, we&#039;re getting less money in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major drop has been in donations. In spite of our 501(c)(3) status, only a couple of people have donated money to the organization above and beyond balance contributions. Thus we are hurt more by the large number of you who aren&#039;t contributing. Remembering that we don&#039;t make any money on our publications, every non-payee has to be supported from donations. The small amount of money we make on software doesn&#039;t cover the phone bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The price will eventually have to be paid. We are going to be mounting a major drive to add European Lojbanists during Athelstan&#039;s trip later this year. Overseas postage is enormously expensive, and we will not easily support these new Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
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The result is that we are likely to have to borrow money to publish the textbook and dictionary. We&#039;ve worked hard to get a good credit rating, and can probably get loans of the size we need, but interest costs would seriously crimp our future budget. Loans also mean that we&#039;ll have to charge more for the books, perhaps as much as $5 to $10 more than we&#039;d like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To put it simply, we have to find between $4000 and $6000 to publish each book (more likely the latter figure). If every JL subscriber buys 1 copy, this probably means a $20 price tag each, which will probably hurt sales, especially among non-US Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This also means that we won&#039;t be able to publish the dictionary until we&#039;ve sold a lot of textbooks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you covering your balance? Could you help by $5 or $10 more? Could you consider donating to the textbook fund, whether $5 or $50 (or more - wishful thinking)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer to these questions could make a BIG difference in Lojban&#039;s success. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research and Development ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Accomplishments - We&#039;ve accomplished a lot in only a month. The two major papers in this issue are the product of several months work each, but were finally brought to fruition this month, thanks to pc&#039;s visit and Bob&#039;s sweating a lot of ink (Bob&#039;s aging printer is going through a ribbon a week these days).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming the adoption of these two analyses, only three chunks of the language have significant open questions. These are the tense system, MEX, and the making of le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tense - The most significant grammatically is the Lojban tense structure. When pc was in Washington, we discussed the subject thoroughly, and what remains is to incorporate the decisions into the grammar and write it up. The incorporation will take only a few days work - the grammar of tense is isolated from the rest of the grammar, and Bob has already redesigned it from scratch twice. Writing it up will take a little longer, but the write-up will not be nearly as difficult as that of negation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MEX - MEX, the grammar of mathematical expressions, is a bigger problem, but is only a small and simple piece of the grammar. When pc was in Washington, we didn&#039;t need more than an hour or two to devise a new approach; it will take only days to see if that new approach works in the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MEX is a complex problem, but is easy to resolve. With negation and attitudinal indicators, half the battle is understanding the entire complexity of the problem. Once the goals were clear, the design was easy. With MEX, the goals have been understood for a long time; the problem is merely one of design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob has had contact with Ivor Darreg, who proposed a MEX-like code called Numaudo about 30 years ago. Anyone familiar with this effort is encouraged to send comments to us. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;avla - The other remaining design issue is the making of le&#039;avla borrowings from other languages. Unlike the other design problems le&#039;avla grammar and morphology are fully settled. The question is merely one of usage:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can le&#039;avla be made efficiently and intuitively so that language learners have the full power of these words at their disposal? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two conflicting goals expressed in this question. Any efficient and intuitive algorithm for le&#039;avla inherently will cut down on the full potential use of le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, Lojban le&#039;avla should be as much like borrowings found in other languages as possible. Thus, jargon words for foods, technical and scientific terms, etc. would be easily recognized for what they mean. By this rationale, the word for the food &amp;quot;spaghetti&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;spageti&amp;quot;, which is indeed a valid le&#039;avla; the word for &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot; should be the valid &amp;quot;integra&amp;quot;. These words would certainly be easy to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are three problems with this approach:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* natural language borrowings and jargon fail Lojban&#039;s basic paradigm of Lojban is &amp;quot;one word - one concept&amp;quot;. The word &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot; has several jargon meanings - which meaning will Lojban adopt, and how do you choose words for the other jargon meanings. Architectural &#039;integral&#039; has no relation to mathematical &#039;integral&#039;; each field based its word on a different etymological link to the English and earlier Latin concept embedded in the word &#039;integrate&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
* recognition of the word chosen depends on whether the appearance or the sound in emulated. Someone inventing a le&#039;avla &#039;on the fly&#039; in conversation, will not be thinking as much about how it looks on paper, as whether it sounds like the borrowed word. Conversely, a writer will concentrate on visual recognition, often ignoring sound differences.&lt;br /&gt;
* cultural bias. Most borrowing nowadays is from English to other languages, and such borrowing is often at the expense of perfectly good words in the native tongue. Barring adoption of the Yorke-Grebogi proposal below, there is no virtue in making Lojban look like an encoded English, and any massive dependence on borrowing from the one language that all current Lojbanists know will suggest uncontrolled cultural bias (whether it is true or not).&lt;br /&gt;
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For any &#039;official list&#039; of borrowed vocabulary, Lojban should rely on careful comparison of like words in several languages, and borrow from a single language only when a tanru cannot be made and when there is clear evidence that most other languages have similarly borrowed the word. Otherwise, we would be better to compose a word using a variation of Lojban&#039;s gismu-making algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most le&#039;avla are really names of a sort, applied to specialized concepts as labels to allow them to be easily referred to. There is no semantic breadth to these words and they are unlikely to be used in tanru other than in a most obvious manner, much as one would talk of a Broadway play or a Chrysler car.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, not all le&#039;avla will remain &#039;name-like&#039;. Borrowings have the habit of passing into common usage, ceasing to be jargon, acquiring the full range of connotations that other words have, and being used metaphorically to build other concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
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To preserve its integrity, Lojban has to keep all le&#039;avla distinct from each other, so that each has only one meaning. Thus, if two fields have claim to the word &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot;, they both can&#039;t use &amp;quot;integra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few years ago, Bob proposed that all le&#039;avla be labelled by some tag that associates the word with a particular jargon. Thus all foods would have a label saying that the word was a food. In short, all le&#039;avla would be invented as a sort of lujvo, a compound of two words or parts of words, one a Lojban categorizer and one a base word having no defined meaning or place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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An advantage of Bob&#039;s approach is that, if you are unfamiliar with a jargon word, the label and morphology will at least tell you that it is a jargon word of a particular field. Thus these words are more learnable to a non-specialist.&lt;br /&gt;
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The disadvantage is that if you ARE in the field, the word will no longer resemble the source language word, and will be more difficult to learn for people trained in the specialty that uses the word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ease of learning is important to using the full power of le&#039;avla. However, ease in making new understandable le&#039;avla is also important. In natural language, new words are created as borrowings all the time. Lojbanists need to be able to make new le&#039;avla at will, with ease comparable to the making of lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unlike lujvo and gismu, le&#039;avla have a more amorphous morphology, and ease of making words requires some constraint on those words. A legal le&#039;avla is defined merely as a Lojban word having a consonant cluster in the first 5 letters (which must be a legal initial if at the beginning of the word), only permissible consonant clusters within the word, no occurrences of &#039;y&#039;, a final vowel, and penultimate stress. It also cannot break down into a combination of gismu, lujvo and cmavo either directly, or if preceded by a cmavo. le&#039;avla space is thus primarily defined by what it is not. Testing to see if a word fits the rules is difficult, subject to error, and virtually impossible to perform in your head.&lt;br /&gt;
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It turns out, though, that if you always have something on the front of the word as a marker of &#039;jargon type&#039;, as proposed by Bob, there is an algorithm (proposed by John Cowan) that makes it as easy to make a le&#039;avla in your head as it is to make a lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
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The words so formed are always good le&#039;avla, and the front part can be any rafsi, which is glued on by a syllabic consonant like &#039;r&#039; that acts like a vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, a side effect is that the rest of the word often cannot stand on its own as a word. This means that all le&#039;avla are forced to be at least one syllable longer (the attached rafsi) than a corresponding natural language source word, and that all jargon words in a field will be prefixed by a common and redundant syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob favors this approach anyway - it encourages tanru and lujvo-making as a preference to borrowing from other languages, which is likely to be heavily biased towards English at least in the early years. Furthermore, the remaining le&#039;avla word space need not remain unused permanently. Some review board can watch for le&#039;avla that become &#039;more than jargon&#039; by coming into common use and being using in tanru. Specialists in a field could also set up boards to approve &#039;unofficial&#039; jargon le&#039;avla that could be flagged as being special to the field without repeating the redundant field affix. (unofficial because someone has to resolve between two fields that try to use the same word).&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;Official&#039; short le&#039;avla, on the other hand, would become a subclass that is as carefully made and evaluated as gismu. A new learner need not learn these short forms if she/he knows how to reborrow the word anytime it is needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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Is Bob&#039;s approach adequate? Is the algorithm for building le&#039;avla as easy to use as it needs to be? Are there other approaches to be considered? These are not really design issues, but usage issues that will be determined in future years by the people who learn and use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Until then, we need to know what to teach in the textbook. This is not something that Bob should decide on his own. What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grammar - With the expected completion of all substantive grammar changes within the next month or so, we can finally look to baselining the grammar. A decision on this will be (hopefully) made at LogFest 90. As with the gismu list, we expect a &#039;soft&#039; baseline that will last several months, followed by a hard freeze on the grammar, with the intent of holding the grammar constant for 5 years, until fluent speakers can make decisions based on &#039;inside&#039; knowledge of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are risks in baselining - we might freeze a fatal flaw into the language - but these risks are believed small. We&#039;ve now taught 3 classes in Lojban, Bob has written draft lessons covering most basics of the language, and Bob and Athelstan have both done translations of complex and intricate works from other languages. We also have our record as a guideline. Over the last year, the grammar is sufficiently stable that we can still in good conscience sell the draft lesson materials written then. There have been changes, some drastic in overall effect on the language, but most do not affect the beginning speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Writing the textbook may reveal more flaws. Bob believes that any such problems will be minor compared to the past history of the Loglan project, or even the recent history of Lojban. Of the two big redesigns described in this issue, only one even required minimal changes in the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parser may reveal a few more problems, as may the random sentence generator. Most of the problems detected by the parser have been minor ones related to elidable terminators that turned out not to be elidable because of the restrictions of YACC grammars (thus an incomplete sentence consisting of bare sumti with no selbri must be followed by &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to be grammatical). Doug Landauer has proposed a more powerful parser-writing tool which might simplify the grammar and resolve these problems. Following a soft baseline, though, such improvement would have to be either invisible to the average user, or offer a benefit major enough to warrant changing the baseline (and the textbook that will be written based on that baseline).&lt;br /&gt;
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A final source of changes may come from an analysis in progress by Carl Burke (and possibly to be assisted by David Bowen and others) to convert the YACC grammar into a simpler format called &#039;Extended BNF&#039;. &#039;BNF&#039; grammars are easier to read than YACC grammars, and the process of building them reveals irregularities and asymmetries in the grammar. We&#039;ve already made two extremely minor changes as a result of Carl&#039;s work, both expanding the set of permissible Lojban expressions to include a symmetric equivalent of another structure. The negation analysis discovered a third asymmetry, which we repaired by removing several redundant rules from the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is unlikely that anyone will notice any change to the grammar after the baseline, but our rules require that any such change be announced, explained to all Lojbanists, and approved only after a comment period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major risk to the grammar for some time to come will be the MEX component. The MEX grammar is impossible to test without trying to use it, and there is nobody competent enough in Lojban who could make use of the capabilities of MEX to the degree necessary to test it like we have tested the rest of the grammar. Only time will prove MEX. (Meanwhile, we&#039;ll try to be satisfied with one of our several attempts at grammatically expressing the opening phrase of the Gettysburg Address.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Parser - Key to the final test of the grammar will be completing the parser. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who has written the most comprehensive parser version so far, has indicated that he doesn&#039;t expect to be able to help during the critical phrase right after the preliminary baseline.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are thus looking for people who know something about parsers to help out over the next several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We must identify volunteers who are willing to strongly commit to seeing the project through to completion. The parser project is too vital to suffer problems we&#039;ve had in getting LogFlash ported to other computers. Committed people who know what they are doing, and who can and will stick to it, can implement the current changes in a relatively short time, and can minimize the amount of work needed to maintain the parser if testing shows that further changes are needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some preferred qualifications:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* ability to program in C, and a knowledge of how YACC-based parsers work, so you can understand what Jeff has done; rewriting or translating the existing, and working, code in a different language is not an effective use of time; porting the parser to other computers is a task for when the grammar has been baselined and tested with the first parser;&lt;br /&gt;
* a demonstrated attempt to learn the Lojban grammar, which probably means that you are a level 3 student; most of the problems to be dealt with require a knowledge of why we are implementing a rule, not just what the rule is. The programmer needs to communicate with those who are not familiar with the inside of the parser, like Bob (some level 1 and level 2 people might be able to do this, but we&#039;ll be harder to convince);&lt;br /&gt;
* an MS-DOS computer environment with a C compiler; this is for compatibility with Bob and with our community, which primarily uses PC-compatibles with MS-DOS. We eventually want to have a UNIX version of the parser, but nearly all of the people who will be involved with testing the parser cannot work with a UNIX version.&lt;br /&gt;
* a willingness to work on the parser pretty much to the exclusion of other Lojbanic efforts for a while; this has to be voluntary, but only for a few months of part-time work, until a minimal working parser is produced;&lt;br /&gt;
* there is a preference for a single person or a small co-located team, preferably near Washington DC - this is simply for communications and logistics purposes. Since Jeff lives in California, distance has proven to be a surmountable problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have about 3000 lines of C code, which Jeff says is not especially well commented. The user interface is fairly solid. The primary work is inserting new YACC grammars into the parser, and modifying the hand-coded rules in the lexer to reflect similar changes in the YACC-verified grammar. The basic style is fairly well set, so we need someone who can read Jeff&#039;s code and complete it, not rewrite it. Time required is expected to be less than 100 total hours once you know Jeff&#039;s code, and make any conversions to run the code in your environment. Jeff tried to design the system so that inserting a new grammar would be very fast; and has demonstrated that his concept works several times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you get for this? Only our thanks and credit in the final product. Since Jeff did the bulk of the work and has chosen not to retain ownership rights, it would be unfair to offer greater remuneration to anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure I&#039;ve made this out to be worse than it really is. But there will be a lot of pressure to get the parser completed without constant support from Bob, who will be writing the textbook. Faint souls should not venture forth.&lt;br /&gt;
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Any volunteers? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Growth and Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth rate continues at a phenomenal pace, although it has slowed some since the beginning of the year. Actually, growth may be continuing at the same rate, but a few people have responded to the questionnaire in JL10 by dropping out or indicating that they wish to be inactive until the textbook is done. We don&#039;t count these people in our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth has been almost entirely in the more active levels. We&#039;ve added another half-dozen level 3 students in the last month, and one of these, John Cowan, has already done his first Lojban writing, a fairly sophisticated translation of a single extremely complex (and weird) English sentence - but more on this next issue when we print it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of our growth has been outside the US. There seems to be a budding class or study group in the Vancouver BC area, led by new Lojbanist Mischa Sandberg. He contacted us as a result of our interview on the CBC Canadian national radio program. Some French-speaking Lojbanists in Canada have started learning the language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll have to leave details out until things are more definite, but one of these new French-speaking Lojbanists is a well-known science fiction writer, who wants to incorporate Lojban as a major element in an in progress French-language novel about a &#039;logical language&#039;. We&#039;ve offered to assist in incorporating &#039;good Lojban&#039; and inquired whether an English translation might be considered by the publisher (How many of you would buy such a translated novel, merely knowing what we&#039;ve told you?). If the book is published as expected, la lojbangirz. will try to make it available to the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most significant has been the increase in membership in the Usenet/Internet computer mail-server, called &#039;lojban-list&#039;, which is approaching 100 people, including those cross-linked from Compuserve. Now all we have to do is get these people talking - the net has been relatively silent. Since Bob has to pay long distance rates to use the net, he can&#039;t lead activity. Thus people need to start talking about their own interests.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our major publicity effort this year independent of the textbook publishing, and any advertising that is associated with that, will be Athelstan&#039;s trip to Europe, which is described under International news below. Bob and Nora are planning a trip to California in late August to early September, but haven&#039;t made specific plans yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Education ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan finished his introductory class in Lojban in early May. Unfortunately, attendance at each session was inconsistent, so not as much was covered as he had intended; however, a good survey of the entire language was completed. Of 10 who signed up, 4 or 5 &#039;completed&#039; the course, in that they have moved past the basic material covered and can continue studying productively on their own using the draft textbook lessons. One of these graduates is moving to the Kansas City area, and we are hoping she will help the several others living in that area when the textbook is finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Tiedemann has gotten the New York City people together, and two classes will be starting there. One will start 20 May, and run every Sunday afternoon (except Memorial Day and LogFest weekends) at his residence in Manhattan (near Columbia U.) for most of the summer; the other will be on Wednesdays in Brooklyn at Marc Glasser and Donna Camp&#039;s residence. We&#039;ll report on progress next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have a potential class in the Vancouver BC area, as mentioned above, and Rory Hinnen has been trying for months to get people together for a Los Angeles area class (if you live in LA, and are interested, his phone number was in le lojbo karni #11, or write to Bob at the la lojbangirz. address and he&#039;ll try to get you in touch with Rory.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans - Athelstan is doing detailed planning for his trip to Europe and Israel in August through October. He promises to stay out of the poison ivy this time. (For those not with us last summer, Athelstan contracted an awful case of poison ivy just as he was to leave on a cross country trip. After being bedridden for a full week, keeping his schedule was impossible, and the whole trip was cancelled.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is his approximate route: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He will be in The Hague, Netherlands during the third week of August for the World Science Fiction Convention. He will meet with any Lojbanists who can make it there. After spending a week thereafter sightseeing in the Benelux countries, he plans to cross over into Germany, possibly travelling by bicycle. He will definitely be stopping in Goettingen. By now it is early September. He will then travel on a Eurorail pass south, stopping at several places in Germany, and passing into Austria and/or Switzerland (partly dependent on the Lojbanists in those countries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will pass from Switzerland going west; he intends to stop in Bessas in southern France to visit Lojbanist John Negus. He will then return eastward into Italy, stopping in the Turin area to give talks with the assistance of Lojbanist Silvia Romanelli. Next he will go south to the boot-heel of Italy and take the Brindisi ferry to Greece, and eventually will continue on to Israel. One of our level 3 (American) students is planning to move to Israel, and will help Athelstan organize and present talks there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this wandering will use up his month of rail travel, leaving him in early October returning by a much more direct route to the Netherlands around mid-October, from which he&#039;ll return to the U.S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another ambitious schedule, but more likely to be completed since he can sleep on the train between stops.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brochures - By the time Athelstan goes overseas, we should have completed the translation of the brochure into French and Italian, and we are trying to arrange translations into Spanish and German (any volunteers to translate or to check someone else&#039;s translation?). We will have pre-shipped supplies to several places along his route so that he doesn&#039;t have to cart them all over Europe, but Athelstan should have copies of most of our publications to show off as he goes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you aren&#039;t on this itinerary, we&#039;ll have to try to catch you next trip, unless you can meet Athelstan somewhere on his route. To do any coordination of this sort, we need to hear from you as soon as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Products and Policy ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo Analyzer - Nora has enhanced the lujvo-making program so that it also takes lujvo apart for you, giving you the source tanru, in addition to putting them together and drilling you on the latter skill. No price increase for the added capability. Nora is also adding a drill on taking lujvo apart, which will be available by LogFest. For those few who have made it to LogFlash 2, the lujvo drills in the program should significantly enhance your memorization rate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
List of Available Papers - My initial search (described last issue) turned up rather fewer items than I had hoped. The following are what I have readily available, with page counts (parenthetical notes indicate the subject of the paper - not always clear from the title).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a few other papers that I have, which I am less sure the authors intend for me to make public. If you have sent me something in the past that you think should be on this list and isn&#039;t, please let me know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are charging 15c/page for these to cover the extra work and Xeroxing charge for these essentially individual orders. Filling these orders will also be on a low priority basis, unless you are doing a volunteer activity requiring the materials for some reason, and these items require payment or existing positive balance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan and Bob LeChevalier: Review of Loglan 1 - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
James F. Carter: The Language Gua\ spi - 18 Nov 1988 (the latest paper we have describing Carter&#039;s tone-based language derived from Loglan - Carter occasionally revises this paper, and we&#039;ll send you the latest we have, though the page count may vary) - 23 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Back to School - P*L*G*S Revisited (&#039;Pretty Little Girls School&#039; and the Ambiguity of tanru) - 14 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Comments on Loglan 1 (1989) - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Comments on MEX as discussed in JL9 - 2 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Consolidated Synopsis of the Categories from Roget&#039;s Thesaurus (a detailed analysis based on 4 different thesaurus versions) - 26 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Lojban Predicate Categories (Semantic Categories of Lojban gismu) - 77 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Lojban (two excellent introductory papers that will be the basis for a new Overview for new people when we get time) 23 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Lojban Etymologies (sample gismu etymologies compared to roots in several languages, not just the basic 6 used to create them) - 6 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: On Reconstructing the Common Origin of Modern Languages (the work of Morris Swadesh and others postulating a common language origin, and a poem in Nostratic) - 21 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Prehistoric gismu?: Lojban and the Human Proto-Language and The Morris Swadesh &amp;quot;Top 100&amp;quot; in Lojban (compares Lojban words and etymologies with hypothetical proto-language words; 2 papers) - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Raymond: La Tenguar: A romantic Orthography for Lojban (Applying the Tenguar Alphabet of Tolkien to Lojban) - 6 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am also expecting some papers from Andy Hilgartner, relating General Semantics, Lojban, and novel theories of logic, sets, and behavior that he and his associates have developed over the last few decades.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Planned Languages File Server - We&#039;ve had a lot of requests for distribution of our materials &#039;on-line&#039; via electronic mail. For reasons we&#039;ll go into in a minute, we have to constrain this somewhat. Meanwhile, we will attempt to make some of our most common items available via computer mail, via a new &#039;Planned Languages file server&#039; service offered by Jerry Altzman and Mark Shoulson.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have network access and haven&#039;t heard of this setup, contact: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
archive-management@ivory.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Compuserve people prefix with &#039;INTERNET:&#039;). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you send a one-line message containing the word &#039;help&#039; only to this address, it will send you help information - or you can ask more specific questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Items I plan to send to the file server include: - the gismu list&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* the rafsi list&lt;br /&gt;
* the brochure in English and French&lt;br /&gt;
* the Overview&lt;br /&gt;
* the latest machine grammar (after the LogFest reviews)&lt;br /&gt;
* the Saki story translated by Athelstan for JL10, with parser analysis and the JL10 English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If I have time, these files will be on-line by the time you receive this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will listen to requests from people for any other items they wish to see distributed via this service. Decisions will be made on an item-by-item basis. However, we will not be putting up materials until we are reasonably sure of their long-term stability, and some materials like JL and the Synopsis, are too dependent on text formatting for us to readily make ASCII versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no problem with other people putting up their own interpretations and proposals for various aspects of the language (please send us a hard copy for the archive record please), but we would like people not to post copies of our materials and publications on electronic media, at least not without asking us first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is part of a large and complicated policy problem regarding materials distribution. Our policy that reflects numerous constraints, and it is not one we are necessarily happy with. Because this policy has been recently questioned, we will discuss it at LogFest. Meanwhile, we want to explain what that policy is, and why we feel bound to it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Policy - Here is our distribution policy: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. encourages the free exchange and distribution of information about Lojban. We thus have a copyright policy that encourages distribution &#039;without charge&#039; of most of our materials. The actual design of the language, as opposed to the materials describing it, are considered to be fully in the public domain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can&#039;t, however, extend this policy to draft versions of our to-be-published materials. With this material, we do not want people freely distributing it, without checking with us first (at which point we&#039;ll probably OK it on an individual case basis).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While we would like to include everyone in whatever aspects of the project they choose, we cannot. For any given research and development effort, we have to limit distribution of the various draft proposals to a manageable number of people that we believe will contribute to that effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, since the bulk of the decisions made on any issue require extensive interchange, usually both informal and verbal, most people get their chance to participate only at LogFest. Because it takes place only once a year, we tend to have too many issues &#039;on the table&#039; at LogFest to discuss each of them in detail with everyone. Therefore we have to ask the community to trust its leaders to consider everyone&#039;s viewpoint. After all, we have ultimate accountability to you - if we don&#039;t do a good enough job on the language, you won&#039;t learn and use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why the current policy? Several reasons, notably cost, time, schedule, and our image as a project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cost - It costs money to produce these materials, and this includes basic overhead costs and the R&amp;amp;D costs of producing the first copy of any document, as well as reproduction, postage, and everyday business expenses (for example, we pay state sales tax on Virginia &#039;sales&#039; even when they aren&#039;t paid for, and on all stuff we throw out unsold). Every free copy we give out means that we either need to replace the recipient&#039;s share of our costs with donations, or charge everyone who does pay even more. This is unfair. With our voluntary balance system, we can at least let people know what their share is, and they can decide whether they can afford to contribute their share, and whether they will.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a note on this justification, it does not save us the full cost of a copy to send you something via electronic mail. Even if we use a means of free distribution (as we plan to do for limited purposes as described below), the lower copy volume increases our per copy cost on the rest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As anyone who has sold software under &#039;Shareware&#039; can tell you, only a small fraction of the people who get an on-line Shareware product ever pay for it. Thus only a stable product requiring small support expenditures can be distributed, unless the product becomes extremely widespread, or the suppliers have independent financing. We don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully, this will change after the language is baselined and the books are written. During the time period before then, the survival of the language is dependent on la lojbangirz.&#039;s financial solvency, and we need to ensure this continues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Time - Time affects mostly the special orders policy, and the involvement of people in the decision-making process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To put it simply, I (Bob) have only a limited amount of time and far too much to do if we want to have a textbook and dictionary soon; I already spend as much as half my time on overhead activities and filling orders. If I take extra time to fill special orders, the important work doesn&#039;t get done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If I fill some special orders, I have to fill them all; it would be only fair. Thus, I must avoid filling any, unless the order is justified by a specific project goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, if you want something that isn&#039;t on the order form, you can ask for it. If there is enough demand, we will consider adding it to our regular offerings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Schedule - People have been waiting for 35 years for the language to be completed. The language is essentially done now. The research questions that occupy so much of our time and paper may seem major, but are really trivial corrections. The changes reflected in the 38-page negation paper, for example, can be summed up two lines of the YACC grammar - all the rest is &#039;teaching material&#039; so that reviewers (and the textbook writer) understand the same interpretation of those two lines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the work on these minor issues require a lot of time, and a fairly deep knowledge of the language. We rely on people, like pc, with an immense historical knowledge of the discussions that have taken place undocumented over the last dozen years or more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New people have a lot to contribute, too, and our pages are studded with names like Michael Helsem, John Cowan, and Albion Zeglin, and John Hodges, who have made contributions to the language by asking the right question at the right time, proposing a simple idea that offers major benefit without causing traumatic language change or relearning, or simply by showing us what the language looks like when someone uses it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These new people are part of an &#039;inner circle&#039; of their own creation, one of participation. There is, however, because of schedule, another &#039;inner circle&#039; that is making the &#039;last minute&#039; decisions about the details of the language. This circle is by no means fixed - it changes from issue to issue, and usually involves the proposer of the change, however new that person is. The core, however, has been pc, Nora, Bob, Athelstan, and for vocabulary issues, Tommy Whitlock. The primary qualification for this level of involvement has been a willingness to allow Lojban to disrupt and dominate the rest of your life activities (pc spent a couple of days reviewing the negation paper during the week of his wedding), but that is the price of getting the language done now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is no intent to exclude others, but we do, and we unfortunately must, as a side effect of trying to get the language done. For every new person we bring into a discussion of any issue, we have to provide that person with the history, and the language design affecting that decision. If the language is ever going to be finished, we have to draw the line fairly strictly. Any new person has to work hard, and gain an understanding of the issues based on their own study, and whatever occasional help we can offer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Draft materials are the results of some one person&#039;s study of a particular research problem, and a given version circulates among the &#039;inner circle&#039; that is associated with that problem. If the problem is critical, or if the results will take too long to complete in the face of high demand, as with the cmavo list, we release this draft to our entire subscriber list to look at, to use, and to comment on. For these drafts, the final quality isn&#039;t there, and stability isn&#039;t promised. Yet, because anything we &#039;publish&#039; smacks of being &#039;official&#039;, our draft publications are treated more seriously than any informal writer&#039;s expressed proposals or opinions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Image - Which brings us to the image problems of stability, veracity, and inclusiveness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A lot of people have invested time in learning previous versions of the language, only to find the language they&#039;d learned was changing like the desert landscape in a windstorm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Project has had a history of uncontrolled change, one that Lojban must live with until we have proved stability. As a result, Bob keeps fairly detailed records of who gets what version of what materials, so that updates can be provided on request. (This is the mysterious difference between &#039;level 1&#039; and &#039;level 2&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of the aura of &#039;official-ness&#039; that attaches to our publications, and because we are writing material intended to look authoritative when approved, you cannot always tell that a draft is incomplete or unapproved. Because so much of our work is paper hard-copy oriented, we don&#039;t have a system in place to reliably inform people of the current status of any particular document they get access to. It is thus likely that someone getting a copy of draft material other than from us will be working with outdated information. If someone invests time in learning from our materials, and then finds the stuff is obsolete, they get upset - with us - for misleading them. They also get the wrong impression that language change is not under control enough for them to bother learning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if we had a good system for marking drafts, we still have to exercise some care. It can be argued that people who get well-marked drafts and study from them, do so at their own risk. But it is the language effort as a whole that is at risk. If these people ignore the warnings, but then feel misled anyway, they leave; hundreds of people have done so with prior versions of the language. The language was virtually dead in 1986-7 (less than a half-dozen people were still actively working on the language) when the effort that became la lojbangirz. got started.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of Lojbanists have little interest in the language development project, other than to know that their concerns are listened to. They want a language, complete and ready-to-learn. That is la lojbangirz.&#039;s primary priority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the language baseline, there will be a 5-or-more-year period of little or no change, rigidly controlled. By being slow and rigidly controlled, we can then involve everyone, though practically speaking, while a newcomer might find a problem, only someone who has learned the lan-guage will be able to devise a credible solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will probably be as many or more proposals for change as there are now, but the people who learn the language will know that the proposals are just debate. After the five-year period, they will be the ones to select which if any changes to accept. The language will no longer be imposed on people from outside &#039;experts&#039;, but will be a living language responding to its own internal life. The freeze on the language will not end until the speakers of the language have enough self-confidence (and inertia) that they keep control over the rate of change they will permit (which will probably be as low as any other &#039;stable&#039; language). This is the way it must be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, addressing one of the original issues that led to this discussion, we cannot orient the Lojban effort around the computer communications network. To do so would be to practice an exclusion of non-computer people that we cannot afford.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Too many of our most committed and productive workers have no access to the computer networks, and about half the community has no particular access to computers at all. Many of these people have complained about an apparent bias towards people with computers and computer knowledge. This is partly due to Bob&#039;s bad habits of accidentally using computer jargon throughout his writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can encourage &#039;on-line interchange&#039;, and have done so. I&#039;m spending far more time supporting &#039;lojban-list&#039; then I intended to. But, we cannot afford to even appear to exclude people who don&#039;t have computers. In fact, we have to try especially hard to include people without computers, to make sure that they can participate to the same degree as everyone else. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News About the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Readers have indicated that they want me to avoid commentary in this section, on the assumption that everyone who cares already knows about the political and intellectual property disputes between la lojbangirz. and the Loglan Institute. Anybody who doesn&#039;t know what&#039;s going on, and cares, can write to la lojbangirz. for explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New Lognet Published - Jim Brown (JCB) put out another Lognet around the beginning of April. He reports about 300 copies of Loglan 1 sold, and about a dozen new members for the Institute. He also reports that the Institute is still losing money even at that sales level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB also reported that he and his wife visited some Arizona universities and an anthropology oriented science fiction convention. JCB gave several talks on Loglan, and reported being encouraged by how easily people seem to learn pieces of the language. He also met with an unnamed colleague to work on a paper about Loglan which he plans to use as a delayed answer to Arnold Zwicky, who strongly criticized linguistic aspects of Loglan in the late 1960&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several technical proposals for changing the Institute version of Loglan were discussed. Most of the proposals either are not applicable to the Lojban version, or have been incorporated already in our design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are apparently several proposals under consideration for resolving two of the flaws in Institute Loglan that Athelstan and Bob specifically identified in their review of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One reader argued against a proposal from the December issue (discussed in JL11), that would divide up Institute Loglan gismu into &#039;nouns&#039;, &#039;verbs&#039; and &#039;adjectives&#039; of several types, and given each group a peculiar series of inflections based on varying the final vowel. The argument against the proposal seems to have convinced JCB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interestingly, a new paper in the journal of the New York Academy of Sciences reports that linguists investigating proto-languages are hypothesizing that the earliest language had only one vowel, and that multiple vowels appeared in language to distinguish between related meanings - these differing meanings then became &#039;nouns&#039;, &#039;verbs&#039;, and &#039;adjectives&#039;, and then all the varying declensions of each. Thus the Institute may be repeating ancient history.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex May Resigns - Rex May has resigned as &#039;editor&#039; of Lognet. He had held this position for the last two issues, although JCB did the production. Rex indicates that JCB made editorial decisions without consulting with Rex, and specifically refused to print an article Rex had written proposing a different morphology for Loglan words. Rex plans to submit it for publication in Ju&#039;i Lobypli after rewriting it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The resignation was due partly because of editorial disputes with JCB, and partly because of the dispute between la lojbangirz. and JCB. Rex printed a statement in the recent issue of Lognet that was critical of la lojbangirz. for not clearly demonstrating to him why we feel that JCB had made Loglan public domain. He has indicated that this statement was printed in order to stir a response from the community. Only two people responded, but the answers were sufficient to provoke Rex&#039;s resignation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex has given us the following comment for publication: &amp;quot;I have decided that the &#039;ownership&#039; of the Loglan language is at best equivocal. As editor I feared I was taking sides. I don&#039;t want to take sides on something I can&#039;t figure out.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex also wrote a review of Loglan 1 for Liberty magazine (March 1990), a libertarian publication. The review was very positive, although it concentrated more on the positive aspects of Loglan than those of the book. A rebuttal letter that severely criticizes Rex&#039;s review appeared in the May issue. The comments seem to be aimed at Loglan in general, although the comments are based in response to Rex&#039;s statements. The criticisms of the language are flawed, and appeared to be based on the writer&#039;s negative attitudes toward what Rex had written, rather than on any independent knowledge of the language. Thus, more than anything else, the exchange seems to have demonstrated the difficulty in writing very short articles about Loglan/Lojban for a broad audience; if specifics are given out of context, inevitably a few readers will incorrectly generalize or otherwise misinterpret what has been presented. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is considering a response to the Liberty exchange, especially since Lojban was not mentioned. Unfortunately though, the misinformed criticisms seem to have dampened Rex&#039;s enthusiasm for the language, if not others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan has noticed that people seem intimidated by the concept of predicates and by the apparent amount of work required to memorize place structures. Athelstan here explains what a predicate is, and shows that learning place structures is familiar and natural to every English speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Brief Introduction to Predicates and Place Structures ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A predicate in Lojban - or in logic - is a relationship between one or more arguments. For example, if John is Sam&#039;s uncle, then we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu rirbu&#039;a la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If John hits Sam, we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu darxi la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If John is taller than Sam, we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu sraclamau la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the English sentences vary in appearance and grammatical structure, the Lojban sentences are similar to each other. The type of relationship varied from state (English noun) to active (English verb) to characteristic (English adjective), but it remained that all three were relationships between John and Sam, so Lojban treated them all the same grammatically; this is the heart and soul of Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each relationship has characteristic arguments or roles associated with it. Uncle has the &amp;quot;uncle&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nephew&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;niece&amp;quot;. Giving has the &amp;quot;giver&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;recipient&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;gift&amp;quot;. Reading has the &amp;quot;reader&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;medium of recording&amp;quot; (e.g. book, headstone, CRT screen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In English most verbs have a rigid place for each of these arguments. For example (leaving off the last place): &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
John reads the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
The sentence reads John.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mean two entirely different things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sam gives John the book.&lt;br /&gt;
John gives Sam the book.&lt;br /&gt;
John gives the book Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
The book gives John Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
are all different, and the change in meaning is directly related to the change in position.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban predicates also have specific places for specific arguments. This place structure is denoted explicitly in the definition, unlike natural language place structures which are learned subtly as implicit usage of the word. In Lojban, for example, the place structure of tcidu (read) is: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A reads B from medium C.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure includes the reader, the text, and the medium being read from. So: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu tcidu le jufra&lt;br /&gt;
John reads the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
le jufra cu tcidu la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
The sentence reads John.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
are as different in Lojban as they are in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban &amp;quot;dunda&amp;quot; has the place structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A gives B to C.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which has the giver, the gift and the recipient.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la sem. cu dunda le cukta la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu dunda le cukta la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu dunda la sem. le cukta&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
le cukta cu dunda la sem. la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
go through the same convolutions in meaning that their English counterparts do.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So place structures are not foreign to English speakers. We use them; we just don&#039;t think about them or talk about them. They also move in funny and subtle ways in natural languages, and we learn by example how to manipulate them. Lojban makes them regular and explicit and it&#039;s easy to manipulate them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proposals to be Decided at LogFest ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The two papers separately attached are intended for comment, discussion, and (hopefully) approval at LogFest 90. They were written by Bob, and have passed a stiff review by Nora, Athelstan, and pc. If you cannot attend, feel free to send in your comments anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The negation paper probably contains about the equivalent of 1 1/2 draft textbook lessons worth of technical information, and the attitudinal paper another lesson&#039;s worth, thus providing level 3 students with significantly more study material on the language. They are bound separately so that students can bind them together with textbook lessons in they wish. The attitudinal word list is bound separately from the paper, for the benefit of those who bind their various word lists together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are also several minor proposals which will be discussed. Some of these are included in the following pages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn&#039;t clear how well detailed technical topics can be discussed at a meeting like LogFest, where attendees backgrounds and interests are widely disparate, so the amount of group discussion time given to each will be determined by how many are interested, and how much chance they have had to review the proposal. Objections to any proposal will be noted, of course, and small side discussions will take place as we have time, to resolve these. LogFest decisions are usually made by consensus, occasionally by direct vote; all proposals not relegated for specific further study will be decided one way or the other, though - in previous years this has meant wrap-up discussions on Monday, or even Tuesday.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for specific proposals. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu Baseline Changes - New gismu are required by our baseline rules to be discussed and approved. They are supposed to be analyzed in the 6 languages and &#039;made&#039; before the proposal is decided, but we do not currently have an Arabic dictionary reader available (any volunteers?). This is relatively unimportant; rules also stipulate that words to be added will be &#039;coined&#039; from unfilled space when the invented word causes a conflict, since we don&#039;t want to change the baseline word set unless absolutely necessary. Change proposals are numbered for clear reference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# A major reason for adding or changing a word is the desire to give the concept a rafsi. This is the reason for last issue&#039;s proposal to change &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;. There are no other outstanding proposals to change words.&lt;br /&gt;
# Last year&#039;s LogFest decided that the concept &amp;quot;text&amp;quot; probably did not need to be a gismu, but no general solution was found expressing the concept. Recently, Athelstan recognized that nearly all meanings of the word &amp;quot;text&amp;quot; can be covered by &amp;quot;se tcidu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;selci&#039;u&amp;quot; = &#039;x1 is read-by/readable by ...&#039;, with the added tanru qualifier &amp;quot;lerfu se tcidu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;lefselci&#039;u&amp;quot;) to be absolutely clear, if &amp;quot;tcidu&amp;quot; comes to have broader meanings than just the reading of text. Chinese ideograms probably are included in these definitions for &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;, since they are &amp;quot;read&amp;quot; and they are &amp;quot;lerfu&amp;quot; of a sort. This finding, if agreed upon, will remove this proposal from the table.&lt;br /&gt;
# Bob wants to revisit the issue of whether we need a gismu to separately indicate &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; in the sense of &amp;quot;daylight&amp;quot;. The current meaning of &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; is the time interval of &#039;24 hours&#039;; the separate term was omitted in the original gismu effort because nearly all languages use the same word for both concepts, although most languages recognize that the meanings are distinct. The concept &#039;daylight&#039; can be represented clearly as the tanru &amp;quot;sun-above&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;sun-high&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;solga&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;solgau&amp;quot;), but Bob believes that there will come to be many concepts built from the concept &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;, enough that it should have a rafsi. Otherwise those compounds will be 3-part lujvo at minimum, and probably much longer. Bob notes that we have gismu currently for &amp;quot;evening&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;night&amp;quot;, all of the same semantic group as &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;. (There is also a question as to how to create culturally neutral definitions of these terms - for example, the word for &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot; describes a different time-range in Sweden and Germany than it does in the U.S.. This will also be discussed at LogFest.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To avoid confusion between meanings, and possibly bad tanru as a result, Bob also proposes changing the keyword for &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;diurnal&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;diurne&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An argument against a word for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; is that the same words are used for both meanings of &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; in all of our languages. Thus the algorithm will spit out &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; as the preferred form. But there are lower score forms on the list, possibly similar to &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot;. Bob notes that &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; currently has 3 rafsi, and if the word for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; was close enough, one of these could be transferred to the new word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.-5. Bob proposes that &amp;quot;dawn&amp;quot; and possibly &amp;quot;twilight&amp;quot; (the evening equivalent of dawn) be considered based on similar analogy, noting that these are primitive concepts in many cultures. At the very least, we need good lujvo for each.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. A similar situation to the &amp;quot;diurne&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; pair exists for &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;. With the exception of English, the same words are used for both of these concepts. Tommy Whitlock thus argued successfully for not including &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot; in our original gismu list. The corresponding was not true for &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;, these were distinguished in the source languages (as shown by the widely differing words &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of the negation analysis, these concepts have again surfaced for discussion. A few concepts are being proposed for gismu as a result of that analysis, on the basis that the concepts are not well represented as negatives of their perceived &#039;opposite&#039; in English, or that there is significant difficulty with assigning one to be &#039;positive&#039; and the other &#039;negative&#039;. In each of these cases, with the exception of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;, languages generally have words of different roots for each of the opposing pairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two related arguments for adding &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;. One is based on place structures. The place structure for &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot; are parallel: &amp;quot;x1 is good/bad for x2 by standard x3&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot;, on the other hand, has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is evil by standard x2&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; is an absolute concept in that it doesn&#039;t depend on who it affects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, while the opposite of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; and vice versa, the opposite of &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;; this will confuse people who don&#039;t carefully read place structures, and lead to the same murky semantics that exists in the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tommy Whitlock has argued for eliminating &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot; and making both &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; as tanru: &amp;quot;marde xamgu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;madyxau&amp;quot;) and &amp;quot;marde xlali&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;madyxla&amp;quot;). Bob feels that the place structure argument shows that this will only weaken the distinctive relativity of the concepts &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot;, wherein a single event can be good for one person and bad for another, even by the same standard. It is easy to imagine philosophical and theological arguments where the place structure distinction is vital, and distinctive place structures are the core of Lojban&#039;s identity as a predicate language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are uncountable other examples where place structure arguments could be used to justify adding a gismu, but the dependence of entire fields of thought on the distinctions implicit in these particular place structures suggest that this is one case where a change is justified.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Another proposal based on the example of other languages is &amp;quot;tears&amp;quot;, referring to droplets expelled in weeping. The concept has apparently been traced back to proto-language times. Lojban has gismu for &amp;quot;weep&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;drop&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;liquid&amp;quot;. Thus all needed aspects can be expressed as lujvo. In English, of course, we have numerous connotations of tears, and a particular shape called &#039;teardrop&#039;; it is unlikely that these connotations are universal, and tears are no more likely to take the shape named after them than any other kind of droplet on a surface. Thus we cannot claim any particular use in lujvo as a justification. The only solid argument is historico-linguistic. Is this sufficient?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8.-11. Four other &#039;opposites&#039; are proposed based on the negation analysis. These are &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;diffuse&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;dense&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot;. These, of all scalar negatives, seem especially common concepts in natural languages that justify gismu assignment. The first two are further justified by having separate roots in most languages. The second pair is further justified by analogy with &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;, as the &#039;less than&#039; equivalent of their opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12.-16. Lojban has assigned gismu to the major grains and staples of the world, and especially those of the 6 source languages. Various animals, plants, metals, and substances common enough in various cultures to have been assigned connotations and/or to be heavily used in metaphor in their languages have also been assigned gismu (in Lojban, cultural, as opposed to functional, connotations should not be referenced in tanru, unless figurative speech is explicitly marked - and even there should be avoided except in poetic usage).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, it has been pointed out over the last 2 years that three major staples not commonly referenced in English were omitted from the list. These are &amp;quot;buckwheat&amp;quot; which is historically and culturally the staple grain of Russia (one of our &#039;Big 6&#039;), &amp;quot;sorghum&amp;quot; the staple grain for most of Africa used as animal feed in the U.S., and &amp;quot;cassava&amp;quot; which is the major staple of South America and part of Africa, and the third most planted crop after rice and wheat in the world, most familiar to Americans as the source of tapioca.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Considering the importance of staple foods to human life, and their use as ingredients in a wide variety of foods, Bob believes that these omissions should be remedied.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two other grains have been mentioned, but are not as strongly recommended for gismu. A weaker case exists for &amp;quot;triticale&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;alfalfa&amp;quot;, which are not major grains in any culture. But these should be considered for completeness of the set. In addition, readers familiar with other cultures should propose any other basic foods that are widely used outside the U.S. but are not well-known to Americans. Because most early Lojbanists are English-native Americans, Lojban&#039;s image of cultural neutrality requires that we &#039;bend over backwards&#039; to avoid favoring concepts that are familiar to Americans while omitting correspondingly important concepts with which we are unfamiliar. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From John Hodges, on Readability - In a phone conversation with Bob, I said that I had noticed that JCB&#039;s Loglan looked a lot more like English text than Lojban did. JCB has periods at the ends of sentences, and capital letters at the beginnings, and so forth. I felt the appearance of Lojban was unaesthetic, and was casting around for possible changes to improve it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More generally, the issue is &#039;readability&#039;. I have some further thoughts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would like to retract the suggestion I made on the phone. I suggested switching the functions of the period and comma, because &amp;quot;it is less jarring to encounter a comma in the middle of a sentence&amp;quot;. Looking over the text in JL10, I think it would be even more jarring to see a comma at the beginning of a sentence. Periods are visually neater than commas; we can get used to them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also suggested capitalizing the first letter of certain &#039;punctuation cmavo&#039;. In the &amp;quot;Guidelines for Understanding Unfamiliar Lojban Text&amp;quot; on page 6, you start with &amp;quot;Put brackets around each sentence in the text.&amp;quot; Capitalizing &amp;quot;.I&amp;quot; would do the same thing - though just putting two spaces before the &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; would probably do just as well. By the same logic, we might capitalize the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Ni&#039;o&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Lu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Li&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Zo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;To&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Toi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Sei&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Se&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Mo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Ma&amp;quot;, and any word following &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anything in lexeme COI might optionally be capitalized as well. Punctuation exists to help the eye break up the text into meaningful units. I am suggesting that if punctuation may optionally be capitalized, just as &#039;r&#039;s may optionally be trilled, it would improve readability without seriously affecting audiovisual isomorphism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosed is a bit of text from JL10, before and after ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: First a bit of history. I used to capitalize the &#039;I&#039; at the beginning of a sentence before the period was put in. Nora pointed out, though, that the sans-serif typeface used in The Loglanist rendered capital &#039;I&#039; and small &#039;l&#039; indistinguishable, and that this had occasionally caused problems in understanding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, when work on Lojban got started, the visual pause (period) was proposed, along with the use of capitalization to indicate abnormal stress. The period is found at the beginning of every sentence. I also use a double space between sentences as a convention, though in our current compressed typeface, this may not be obvious. For a long time, periods were seldom found anywhere else, though as Lojban use has gotten more sophisticated, the periods have been multiplying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to admit a preference for non-capitalization, since it means I seldom have to use the shift key when typing - hence fewer typos and inconsistencies. Typing Lojban text is not easy, because of its unfamiliarity, and I am especially worried about Lojban typos, other errors, and inconsistencies, appearing in the stuff I produce, since people depend on me for &#039;good&#039; examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t, however, see any major problem, other than my own fumble-fingers and troublesome typefaces, with capitals on most of the cmavo proposed. There is the aesthetic consideration of having capitalization mean stress in some cases, and not in others; I find consistency more aesthetically appealing than a resemblance to English text. (Note that German capitalizes all nouns, both proper and improper, without confusion, and American writers do not capitalize after a colon or semicolon; capitalization is clearly not necessary to recognize sentence structure.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For names, capitalization would be ambiguous, and lead to people with vowel initial names having stress on that first vowel. Thus a certain former US President would be pronounced /AH,yee,zehn,khau,r./ if written &amp;quot;Aizenxau,r.&amp;quot; instead of /AI,zehn,khau,r./, resulting from &amp;quot;AIzenxau,r.&amp;quot; And sometimes the default would not be capitalized at all, when penultimate stress were desired, as in some pronunciations of the English &amp;quot;Alicia&amp;quot; (Lojban &amp;quot;.alicas.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As another historical note, there have been several times in Loglan history when people have proposed using punctuation marks as a substitute for cmavo, justified by &#039;readability&#039;. Thus JCB favors French quotation marks for his equivalent of &amp;quot;lu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;li&#039;u&amp;quot; (French quotations, &amp;lt;&amp;lt; and &amp;gt;&amp;gt;, unlike English quotes &amp;quot; are directional, as required for the two separate words). The list of proposals got quite long, and thus complex, though no clear approval was given to any of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am opposed to such substitution, in that I think many people would have trouble learning to speak punctuation marks as words if they aren&#039;t made explicit. Forgetting the verbal punctuation, of course, leads to ambiguity. (We do allow symbols instead of words in MEX constructs, including periods, commas, and colons, as well as numerals. But in MEX, ALL of the words are replaced by symbols, not just some.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having stated this, as an alternative to John&#039;s proposal, I would suggest using the punctuation marks in addition to the words to enhance readability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; would use individual and paired quotes, respectively: &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zo &amp;quot;mi &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;zoi .kuot.&amp;quot; non-Lojban text &amp;quot;.kuot. &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(Athelstan devised the &#039;name&#039; .kuot. as an obvious mnemonic for delimited quotes. Any single Lojban word can be used as the delimiter.) &lt;br /&gt;
* regular quotation would use French quote marks: &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .... li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
* parenthesis of various types would use the parenthesis marks: &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(sei...) if the &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; is elided or &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;(sei...se&#039;u) if it isn&#039;t (to...toi) &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;etc. &lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mo&amp;quot; and other question words would be marked with a question mark, which I would prefer before the word to help remind English speakers that Lojban differs from English in not requiring a rising tone of voice to express a question, and to make it less likely that an unnatural &#039;end-of-sentence&#039; pause will be inserted:&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;?ma &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;?mo &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;?pei &amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I&#039;ve previously used a single question mark before a construct to indicate questionable grammaticality, I would have to change that convention (probably to a double question mark), but would prefer that to the question mark at the end of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As an alternative for beginning of sentence or paragraph, how about something totally new to mark these (making the period unnecessary - remember that all periods are optional in Lojban, being that they can be inferred from the morphology rules.) A hyphen or equal sign would be distinctive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever the conventions, they should be optional, and a reader&#039;s understanding should not be reduced for not knowing them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having presented an alternative, let us look at some current text, John&#039;s alternative, and the one I&#039;ve just proposed. I&#039;m using a different text than John supplied, one from Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki which uses more varied features:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Current style:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi .i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John&#039;s proposal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e bacru Lu la Selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi .I ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la Selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la Ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga Lu doi Brtis. mu&#039;i Ma do plipe Li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .I Sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko Li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s alternative:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=i fo&#039;e bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi =i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a =i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u =i (sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei) so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other alternatives are possible. What do our readers think? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jamie Bechtel raises an issue on conventions and terminology which may be related to the above: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How do you hyphenate in Lojban if the hyphen is used to show a buffer vowel? Can you use capitalization to indicate that a word has been cut in half? For example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
...selji-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tro ... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
would be written:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
...selJI-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tro ... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: I&#039;m hoping there is no terminology problem here, so let me be sure, and remind readers as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hyphen - in Lojban, the letter &#039;y&#039;, or the vocalic &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; between rafsi used to solve junction problems in lujvo-making caused either by impermissible consonant clusters, or a possibility of the lujvo breaking up into two smaller words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also a &#039;hyphen symbol&#039;: &amp;quot;-&amp;quot;. This has no formal purpose in Lojban, though I may have suggested it as a possible way to explicitly show pronunciation of a &#039;buffering sound&#039; between consonants that a speaker has trouble pronouncing together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Buffer&#039; is used for the &#039;consonantal buffer&#039;, represented by the apostrophe, and for the buffering sound between consonants just mentioned. The latter sound has no letteral representation in Lojban, since it is by definition &amp;quot;some vowel sound not otherwise found in Lojban&amp;quot; (usually for English speakers the sound of &#039;i&#039; in English &amp;quot;bit&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is my belief that visual representation of buffers should be rare, and a word in which they are explicitly used should never be split across lines (I currently try to avoid hyphenating Lojban words at all, because no one reads the language well enough to easily put &amp;quot;seljitro&amp;quot; back together if it is split over two lines.) This would resolve the problem Jamie points out. As for explicitly marking the stress in such a split word - this is already legal in any word, although only in marking abnormal stress in names has it been found useful enough to justify the jarring appearance of capital letters in the middle of a word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for hyphenation at the end of lines, another alternative is the use of underscore. I recently received a letter from Italy (in English, but presumably using Italian conventions), where underscore was used for &#039;hyphenation&#039;, and there was no particular attempt to break words at syllable boundaries. Whether this is desirable for Lojban or not, clearly the English model is not universal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Hodges on Lojban representation of Time of Day: [This discussion is based on material in draft lesson 3 on telling times and dates, and may not be too understandable if you haven&#039;t read that lesson. John first wrote it last summer while the Blacksburg class was conducted, and recently updated it for LogFest consideration. Karen Stein also contributed to this proposal, and wrote on slightly different aspects, but John summarizes the issues well enough to enable people to prepare for LogFest discussions.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Re. telling time: Your &amp;quot;modified base-12&amp;quot; system was not popular [with the Blacksburg class]. One problem is that it is not truly base 12, since it contains &amp;quot;gai&amp;quot;, which is the digit for &amp;quot;12&amp;quot; in a base larger than 12. &amp;quot;12&amp;quot; in base 12 would be &amp;quot;li pano&amp;quot;. Your names for the hours go from &amp;quot;la gaicac.&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;la papacac.&amp;quot; without any &amp;quot;la panocac.&amp;quot; When we hear &amp;quot;la pacicac.&amp;quot; how are we to know what base it is in? On the face of it, it could be any base larger than 3. Given the global use of base-10, even for the numbers of 12-and-24-hour clocks, I think it would be better to go with the crowd on this one. Long Live La Recicac. (la daucac. lir. and la gaicac. lec. and their kin are OK but I think are likely to be used only on flowery and formal occasions, the ones where we use Roman numerals today.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Based on this argument, it is clear that a base-12 clock system should go from 0 to B (B is the base 12 digit for &#039;1110&#039;), and not from 1 to C as proposed in the draft lesson. The 24-hour clock system should go either from 0 to 23, or from 00 to 1B, base-12, which I strongly prefer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem of knowing what base it is exists in English as well, but the difference between 12-hour and 24-hour clocks goes unnoticed, since people generally use the time form that others expect. You also have to know what time zone is referenced. I sure have been confused at times when someone has responded to &amp;quot;What time is it?&amp;quot; in Greenwich time. The answer is convention. If people use one standard all the time they won&#039;t get confused. When they don&#039;t use one standard, you need to flag base and time zone, just as we flag them in English. (Whenever I call someone in another time zone and leave a message on their recorder as to what time I called, I state &#039;your time&#039; to indicate the time zone. Otherwise the time I give would be ambiguous.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for &#039;going with the crowd&#039;, which way does the crowd go?. Remember that in English we effectively use a base-12 system for numbers verbally - we say &amp;quot;twelve o&#039;clock&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;one-two o&#039;clock&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;twoteen o&#039;clock&amp;quot; (this may not always be true for 24-hour clock users, who sometimes say &amp;quot;one-two-hundred&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;12 noon&amp;quot;, which is clearly wrong). Only in numerical form do we use base-10 numbers, and then you can&#039;t do base-10 arithmetic with them. If we drop base-10 completely, as per the preferred form in the draft textbook, there is no confusion as you&#039;ve indicated, arithmetic is straightforward, and there is no effective difference between the 12-hour clock and the 24-hour clock. If this is &#039;bucking the flow&#039;, it is only being simple and logical, as with the rest of the language. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Re. telling the date: The system you present on page 3-19 seems to break down because months typically begin in the middle of a week. What do you do with the fractional week at the beginning? Is it the first week of the month? e.g. 1 August 1989 is a Tuesday; is it the first day of the first week of the month? You give an example 2:2:9:5:1989, &amp;quot;the 2nd day (Monday) of the 2nd week, (which is the 9th), of the 5th month (May) of 1989&amp;quot;. If you look, 9 May 1989 was a Tuesday. (It could be worse. 1 July 1989 was a Saturday. How do people count &amp;quot;weeks of the month&amp;quot; nowadays anyway? When a &amp;quot;month&amp;quot; was the time between one New Moon and the next, it was easy; see which quarter the moon was in. It might give you some 8-day weeks, but what the hey.) I believe people say &amp;quot;the third Tuesday&amp;quot; rather then &amp;quot;Tuesday of the third week.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest not attempting to count &amp;quot;weeks of the month&amp;quot; at all. 3:9:5:1989, a set of four numbers, is easier to hear than a set of five. (Karen said five was too long a string.) 3:9:5 and 9:5:1989 would usually be understood. Sets of two still leave you guessing between day-of-week/day-of-month and day-of-month/month. A bare set of two numbers could also be a time of day. You mention this problem on page 3-15 and offer possible approaches but set no standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HEY, I&#039;VE GOT IT! Declare a convention that: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:2 digits is a time &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;08:56 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 digit:2 digits is a Day-of-week/Day-of-month&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;4:06 =Wednesday the Sixth (default assumption) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;This may be overridden if the two digits are obviously a year &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;5:89 =May, 1989 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:1 digit is Day-of-month/Month, using d,f,g for dau, fei, gai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;05:9 =Fifth of September &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 digit:2 digits:1 digit is Day-of-week/Day-of Month/Month &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;7:03:f =Saturday the Third of November&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:1 digit:2 digits (4 digits optional) is Day-of-Month/Month/Year&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;02:2:92 =Ground Hog&#039;s Day, 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;08:56:3:09:5:89 =Eight-fifty-six A.M. Tuesday the 9th of May, 1989&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3 digits:2 or 4 digits is day-of-year/year &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;001:95 =New Year&#039;s Day 1995&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
08:56:3:129:89&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Clear enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Yes, weeks of months normal include partial weeks. We don&#039;t often express such dates in numerical form, as is possible in Lojban, but we do count and use them. Anyone who ever has meetings on the &#039;4th Tuesday of every month&#039; knows to count all Tuesdays, and the week of month convention was added to deal with such problems. I will agree that the existing proposal is cumbersome and confusing, though. I don&#039;t like some aspects of John&#039;s specific proposal, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* After the year 2000, it will not be clear for many years whether two digits are a year, a month, or a day, so this convention is doomed during our most critical growth period. I think we should break with English a decade early.&lt;br /&gt;
* Most speakers will dislike leading zeroes - this is &#039;bucking the system&#039; as much as my base 12 proposal, only more complex, because there are a lot of patterns to remember. Unlike with time, a given person will have uses for all of these forms at some time, and cannot limit himself/herself to just one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will suggest a skeleton counter-proposal for consideration. Come up with a canonical form, leaving out the week-of-month element.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try: Day-of-Week:Day-of-Month:Month:Year&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If less than 4 terms are given, the stated ones are the leftmost of this set. You can omit one of the early terms leaving the colon &amp;quot;pi&#039;e&amp;quot;. The behind. Special cases of week-of-month and day-of-year would be inserted at any logical place when desired, but must be marked with a lerfu &amp;quot;jy.&amp;quot; for weekday (jeftu djedi) or &amp;quot;ny.&amp;quot; for day-of-year (nanca). If we use &amp;quot;ny.&amp;quot;, it should replace both the day-of-month and month fields in the canonical form, since it is month independence that is the intent of the usage; this prevents us from having to express two useless colons every time. I&#039;ll also add &amp;quot;dy.&amp;quot; to stand for an arbitrary non-year-based Julian Day (by whatever convention - like time zones, you need to know the convention in use to interpret the date. Astronomers use one standard, and various businesses and military projects each use their own separate one; the lerfu stands either for &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;djulien.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Postscript 4/27/1990... looking at this nine months later, I would support giving names to the days of the week, so that they can be abbreviated with letters instead of digits. Padjed. redjed. cidjed. vodjed. mudjed. xadjed. zedjed.... so the long string of digits above is broken by a lerfu in the middle, e.g., &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16:37:x:27:4:90 4:37 P.M. Friday 27 April 1990 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This would be easier to read than a string of six digits, and would reduce confusion over which digit meant what. Bob: This would be grammatical - you can have a bare lerfu in a numeral position, but would be difficult to use. Remember that in even a moderately noisy environment, lerfu are nearly indistinguishable, so we can&#039;t use them too heavily in verbal communications (their main purpose is for spelling, which is slow and enunciated, and for numerical variables, which tends to be few in number or are subscripted - John Cowan has noted the need for long-name forms of the ALPHA-BRAVO-CHARLIE genre for noisy environments, and names couldn&#039;t be used inside of a numeral string.) Requiring a difficult to distinguish day-of-week letter every time you want to state the day-of-week seems to be asking for resolution difficulties. I still prefer my null:dayofmonth... idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you want to use time/date combinations, you need to label the final position of the time, or you can&#039;t tell whether it is minutes, seconds, etc. You could use &amp;quot;t.&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;tcika&amp;quot;. I think combined date/times will be used only in specialized circumstances, just like the other two conventions I&#039;ve proposed that require lerfu, and thus won&#039;t cause confusion. The four lerfu I&#039;ve proposed are probably close to a maximally diverse phonetic set, which is convenient for the noisy environment problem, though I think varying position of the lerfu-label within the various colons will provide redundancy for noisy environment resolution. &lt;br /&gt;
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=== Lojban as a Language Template ===&lt;br /&gt;
by James A. Yorke and Celso Grebogi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Abstract: We propose creating a series of languages using Lojban as a template. These &amp;quot;image&amp;quot; languages would be identical to Lojban except that the predicate words would be adapted so as to be based on the language of the target population. For each and every predicate in Lojban there would be exactly one predicate in the image language, and it would have exactly the same meaning as in Lojban. These &amp;quot;image languages&amp;quot; would be trivially translated into each other trivially by substitution. Continued work on Lojban would of course be critical since Loglan is the template. No development work would be carried out for the image languages. All official changes in Lojban would by implication be immediately adapted to the derivative languages. The advantages would be to minimize memory of those parts of the language which do not carry structure, allowing concentration on grammar and short words.&lt;br /&gt;
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The arithmetic of memorization:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban: 300 cmavo, 1000 difficult gismu, 2000 easy rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Image language: 300 cmavo, an easy 1000 gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These languages would be immediately translatable into each other and would be stepping stones, allowing the students to get more quickly to the point where they can think in the language, the next step being the learning of the Lojban predicates. The easier entry should allow many more people to get involved in Lojban&#039;s logical structure, and the goal would be to rapidly swell the number of people interested in Lojban/Loglan. A major goal of Lojban should be to build up public awareness of the language and increasing the number of people involved in Lojban (and minor variants).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Technology continues to make communication around the world easier. A person with a PC or MAC on a computer network types out a message to a correspondent and it is received around the world, sometimes with a delay of a day but often in seconds. Such ease of communications with an electronic interface creates opportunities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Automatic computer translation between languages does not appear feasible in the foreseeable future. One particular problem is that words in the source language have many meanings and the speakers and listeners are able to select one from the context. Another problem is that the source language and the target language have completely different structures. Undoubtedly the occasional ambiguity of the grammars creates additional problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suppose a group decided to establish a family of languages designed so that translation between them would be easy. What would that family look like. We are going to call the version for speakers of English &amp;quot;Logenglish&amp;quot; and other versions might be Logmandarin, Logportugese, etc. We will call these languages &amp;quot;images&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;image languages&amp;quot; since they are exact images of the original. The vocabularies of Logenglish would be selected based on English in order to ease the learning problem. On the other hand the words should not be English words since their grammatical use and exact meanings would be different and the user should not be lulled into thinking that he or she was using a trivial variant of English. (A problem with the image language approach is that the student might confuse what is a legal Logenglish predicate word and what is not, but when eventually learning the full language, it is unlikely that he/she would confuse Logenglish words with Lojban, because if the word is recognizably like English, it is almost certainly not Lojban.) The vocabularies of other image languages would be based on the native language. In principal anyone could create his or her own set of words to correspond to the Lojban. However, it is likely that a group such as a high school class would speak the language to one another and so would have to have a single image.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The initial goal would be have the structures of Logenglish (i.e., Logical English) and Logportugese so similar that a computer could translate from one to the other trivially so that a Logenglish message typed into one terminal could be translated into a universal form by the terminal and transmitted and the receiving terminal could virtually instantly translate the universal form into Logportugese or Logswahili. The sender would not have any reason to know the dialect of the receiver.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second more distant goal would be to have these languages created so that when spoken they would be easily parsed into words by computer so that when a sentence in Loghindi was spoken into a computer controlled telephone, the computer would translate the sounds into letters and words of the universal language and transmit the universal form, which would then be transmitted to the listener after being transformed into Logspanish of Lognavaho or whatever was needed. If the family of languages had a one to one correspondence between words and the word ordering was the same, the spoken words could be transmitted word by word (with electronic indicators of tone and pitch and inflection and timing) and the listener would here those words translated into his or her own variant as they were spoken by the speaker, word by word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming these goals were set for a family of languages, then what would the design look like. The universal form would be a template. Words would have meanings that would be invariant for all the dialects. We would like to suggest that Lojban is an excellent candidate for such a template. The image languages would not have to have the same set of letters and sounds as in Lojban but predicates should have the Lojban prescribed pattern of vowels and consonants, (e.g. basic predicates of the form CCVCV or CCVCV). In our efforts here, we have assumed the permissible vowels are the same as for Lojban and have the same pronunciation. Such a choice makes it easier to use the image language as a stepping stone in acquiring Lojban. The image languages should be designed to maximize the ability to learn the vocabularies. The truly important constraint is that there must be a clear one-to-one correspondence between words, including compound predicates. Hence the universal language (Lojban) would continue to be developed and each addition or modification would be reflected in the image languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the beginner, the terminal might be quite helpful, with an on-line dictionary suggesting Logenglish translations of English words, and it could parse the sentences and warn of ungrammatical constructions that violate the rules of Lojban. Such programs would have to created. Some, such as the parser, would be the same for all the languages, since it could be executed after the translation into Lojban. The basic translation program would just substitute words from one language to the other, based on a list of pairs it has in memory. It would be much simpler than the existing parsing programs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The creation of Lojban from Loglan (a registered trademark of Dr. J. C. Brown) has demonstrated how the words can be changed, and how harmless it is to substitute new spellings. Lojban has gone much further in continuing the development of the language. No such development would be possible for the image languages since it is critical that they be exact template projections of Lojban in order to guarantee trivial translation between the image languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following predicates indicate how one might proceed, but each image language should have rules of thumb describing how it handles certain situations such as how to expand a single syllable word in English into a two syllable predicate, from &amp;quot;bulb&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;bulbu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;grow&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;groro&amp;quot; for example. Here we need to create a final vowel since the original words have only one and we have chosen to repeat the existing vowel. We suggest that when possible, Logenglish should stay close to the spelling of English (within the constraints of Lojban&#039;s rules for C/V patterns) even when the pronunciation changes significantly. In Logenglish, all letters are pronounced including a final &amp;quot;e&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;cattle&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
becomes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;catle&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The pretty little girls school&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
might become&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le preti litle girli skolo&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course the Lojban grammar is unambiguous so that &amp;quot;preti&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;litle&amp;quot;, which modifies &amp;quot;girli&amp;quot; which modifies &amp;quot;skolo&amp;quot;. We have retained the short word &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; (from Lojban), since we believe that little would be gained in trying to get little words that correspond to English. In fact the little words represent structures that are quite different from English. In learning short words, the student would be putting the effort into learning aspects of the grammar that are fundamentally different from his/her native language. The effort in learning the image language would make it easier to progress to Lojban, having already learned the grammar and short words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In choosing words for the image languages, we have chosen to keep the spelling as similar as possible to the natural language, keeping in mind the pronunciation would probably be following Lojban rules. That would emphasize to the student that this is not his/her native language. Notice in any case the spellings in the image language are rarely the same as for the natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; SAMPLE ELEMENTARY PREDICATE WORDS (=gismu IN LOJBAN) &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words below are from the beginning of the &amp;quot;baselined gismu list&amp;quot; and hence all begin with &#039;b&#039; since gismu begin with consonants. The table illustrates that many gismu can be created in image languages with spellings recognizable to a speaker of the language. Others like &amp;quot;badna&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;banana&amp;quot;) are not easy to improve on. The Logmandarin words were created with the assistance of M.-Z. Ding and Y.-C. Lai.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Parentheses show the word or phrase being approximated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban     Log-   Logpor- Log-     Log-                    &lt;br /&gt;
    english	      tuguese spanish  mandarin                &lt;br /&gt;
------     -------	      -------  -------	 --------      &lt;br /&gt;
bundle/package containing ...                              &lt;br /&gt;
bakfu      pakje  fardo   bulto    bogva                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (fardo)	      (bulto)  (bogwa)                 &lt;br /&gt;
cow/cattle/ox/beef					   &lt;br /&gt;
bakni	   catle  gadjo	  gnado	   nuxnu		   &lt;br /&gt;
	   (gado) (ganado)    *(female                     &lt;br /&gt;
			  cow)				   &lt;br /&gt;
chalk in form of ... from source of	...                    &lt;br /&gt;
bakri      tcaka  jitsi   tizja    fenbi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (giz)  (tiza)  (fenbi)                          &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
bucket                                                     &lt;br /&gt;
baktu      bukte  balde   balde    tongo                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (balde)	      (balde)  (tong)                  &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
plant bulb of species ...                                  &lt;br /&gt;
balji      bulbu  bulbo   bulbo    falgi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (bulbo)	      (bulbo)  (hui gin)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
balcony                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
balni      balko  balko   balko    yangta                  &lt;br /&gt;
           (balcao)	      (balcon) (yan tai)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
blade of ...                                               &lt;br /&gt;
balre      blade  filjo   filjo    davpi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (fio)  (filo)  (dao pi)                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
future of ...                                              &lt;br /&gt;
balvi      futre  futro   futro    junla                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (futuro)	      (futuro) (jung la)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
protect...from...by...under                                &lt;br /&gt;
bandu      prote  prote   prote    bavfu                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (proteger) (proteger)   (bao hu)                &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;mumnu&amp;quot; is	&amp;quot;female	cow&amp;quot; while &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;	is non-sexed &amp;quot;bovine&amp;quot;  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Logenglish the letter &#039;x&#039; could be reserved to indicate where the constructed word does not correspond to the English. Hence English &amp;quot;apple&amp;quot; might be &amp;quot;xaple&amp;quot; in Logenglish. We used &amp;quot;tc&amp;quot; to represent &amp;quot;ch&amp;quot; since the spelling of &amp;quot;ch&amp;quot; in English is &amp;quot;tc&amp;quot; in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; COMPOUND WORDS (lujvo) FROM PARTICLES OF PREDICATES (rafsi) &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban is the template, it remains critical to continue development of compound words in Lojban. While users could make up compounds on the fly as they are encouraged to in Lojban, the only official compound words in any Log-language would be those that correspond to those officially sanctioned words in Lojban. For the purpose of minimizing the required memory, we propose that there be only one acceptable rafsi for each gismu in derivative languages, namely the fragment formed by dropping the final vowel. To go from a compound Lojban word to the corresponding word a derivative language, break the compound into rafsi, e.g., R1 R2 R3, and then list the corresponding predicates, P1 P2 P3, and translate them into the derivative language, yielding D1 D2 D3, cut the final vowels off D1 and D2 and put the result together, as one would in Lojban, adding hyphen &#039;y&#039; as required [ed.: which is between each pair of rafsi, as the proposal is stated - the canonical 4-letter form is best described as replacing the final vowel by a &#039;y&#039;].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The paucity of fragments will make pronunciation a bit more awkward but it will drastically cut the list of items to memorize. The objective here is to minimize the memorization of parts of the language that do not correspond to really new grammatical structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By providing the beginner with predicates that have a rather recognizable spelling, we would making easy to get into the first level of the language. And it would be easy for people of every language group. If someone wanted to make Lojban available in Tibet, they would undertaking a major project, since they would have to produce instructional material in the image language. It would a relatively easy extra step to create a translation list of 1000 basic predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While many people will tell us it is not difficult to learn the almost 1000 gismu, apparently not many have in fact mastered all the gismu and the short words including the digits and so on. There is another thousand plus rafsi to memorize in Lojban, while all of the rafsi would be automatic in the image languages. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; FINAL THOUGHTS &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban helps us understand the nature of thought and the nature of language. It is a wonderful opportunity to explore these ideas that are so fundamental to the nature of human beings, and we feel Lojban should be of interest to an immense audience for this reason.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first question about the usability Lojban is whether people can think in the language. Users would really like to know what thinking in Lojban is like. We suspect that limited vocabularies prevent most people interested in the language from ever finding out and the image language idea should allow people to expand their vocabularies rapidly. Logenglish and Logportugese and other image languages could help people find out. When people learn something, they like a learning curve that gets them to a operational level quickly. (It will take some time to see if it is possible to restrict each word to a single meaning).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The learning curve should allow them to progress incrementally, so that learning a bit more allows them to do a bit more. Currently Lojban presents a huge memory requirement that has little to do with the required learning of the grammar. If people want to learn to speak the language, we should make it as easy as possible, (and in particular we should not burden them with technical terms like &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;valsi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot; (obsolete), &amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;glico&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;rafsi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot;, and undoubtedly others).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By making relatively easy to get fluent in a dialect of Lojban, we could get a larger number of people who could experience the mind-bending aspects of Lojban (as opposed to the purely painful aspects). By having people communicating between Logenglish and Logmandarin, we could rapidly see what the differences are in the way the language is used. We could more rapidly demonstrate that there is something to test. We would greatly increase the number of candidates who might want to take the next step of learning the Lojban predicate vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By having an array of these image languages, we would keep the supremacy of Lojban clear. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would seem wise to limit those criticisms of image languages that are made on the grounds that the similarity to native languages would cause confusion, since it is often claimed that Lojban and Loglan and both highly recognizable. While those two are clearly less recognizable to the student, the requirements of testing Sapir-Whorf suggests that any similarity is scientifically problematical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We would like to thank Bob LeChevalier for his comments which have helped us clarify the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I&#039;ll try to respond with brief summaries of some points that I&#039;ve raised in objection in the comments they mentioned (my actual responses to their drafts were several pages long). First a general objection, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The basic assumption behind this proposal is that memorizing all of the Lojban cmavo, gismu, and rafsi is necessary to get &amp;quot;into the first level of the language&amp;quot;, in their words. It isn&#039;t so. For the &amp;quot;first level&amp;quot; we would never recommend anyone learn other than the long-form rafsi, which are made the same way as in their proposal. Also, to learn the basic grammatical structure required to &#039;think in the language&#039;, you don&#039;t need more than several dozen gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, conversation and letter writing are not &#039;first-level&#039; skills. Nor would learning the basic structures or even a thousand gismu allow you to &#039;think in the language&#039; for real. You can only get a taste of the experience until you can remember or conjure up words for the entire variety of human experience that you wish to deal with; the average English speaker has a vocabulary between 20000 and 100000 words. You can &#039;think&#039; in a foreign language with a frac-tion of those numbers, but it isn&#039;t a tiny fraction. For thinking, conversing, or writing in a new language, it isn&#039;t practical to &#039;look up in the dictionary&#039; to find suggested Logenglish words for your English words, even when it would be a straight word for word substitution - which it usually wouldn&#039;t be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus we have two conflicting goals. If you want the &#039;quick gratification&#039; of a survey of the grammar - enough to learn about the perils of English grammar and the nature of language, you can use Logenglish and the other images, or you could just as easily use Lojban with real English &#039;predicates&#039; - the specific meanings of the words is not as important for such a purpose, and English speakers could get used to a pidgin that did not distinguish parts of speech easier than they could memorize any set of words well enough to communicate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if you want to use Lojban (or a relative) as a language, for the purposes of a language, you will need to work quite a bit harder, and the advantages of an intermediate image language are lost.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specific (and minor points):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Many of the specific proposed image words do not meet the Lojban rules for permissible initials an medials. Making these lists up will not be trivial. But if someone wants to volunteer, and then get a few people to volunteer learning the words to try an image language experiment, fine. But I doubt if we can justify any major effort by la lojbangirz. as an organization along these lines in the near future.&lt;br /&gt;
# Teaching to people in Tibet will still require writing a textbook and dictionary in Tibetan, whether image languages are used or not. I therefore don&#039;t see any savings due to image languages; you actually need to do more work, since you additionally have to invent new gismu and redo all the Lojban words in the books to fit the new image.&lt;br /&gt;
# People who know only the image languages can talk only to others who know the same image, unless they are computer aided. Computers are not yet sufficiently ubiquitous, especially outside the U. S., to make intercultural computer communication anything but a toy of the elite.&lt;br /&gt;
# There is a reference objecting to the Lojban terminology we use in teaching the grammar, and Dr. Yorke has proposed using metaphorical English instead (such as &amp;quot;scene&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;script&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;role&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;sumti&amp;quot;). I personally think more people would be confused by this, since the might not see the analogy, but we can mention such analogies in the textbook as alternative teaching aids, if readers think they help (can readers determine the analogy without further explanation - does it clear anything up for your understanding?). It is certainly not Lojbanic to use figurative metaphors like these - Lojban tanru are as analytic as pragmatically possible.&lt;br /&gt;
# Regarding recognition of Logenglish apart from Lojban, they say: &amp;quot;If a word is recognizably like English, it is almost certainly not Lojban&amp;quot;. Truly a cynical observation. Many Lojban words remind people of English words, but not always the one closest to their meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
# The only way to talk intelligently about this proposal is with an example involving more than just isolated words. I&#039;ll use the same Saki excerpt used for examining John Hodges writing convention proposals. The following are three versions of the same passage, using alternatives forms for the Logenglish brivla (and some of my readability proposals from that earlier text).&lt;br /&gt;
## the text using Logenglish words derived as closely as I can guess to the algorithm suggested (which was loosely stated, and not followed exactly in all of the sample words), including using &#039;x&#039; where English words do not have a necessary consonant (or a &#039;v&#039; &#039;z&#039; or &#039;t&#039; if &#039;x&#039; cannot be used and a voiced or unvoiced consonant is needed), reusing the vowel if the English doesn&#039;t have two, and otherwise stressing visual recognition; I&#039;ll also use only the key word to maximize the reader&#039;s chances of guessing.&lt;br /&gt;
## a variant version, still maximizing visual recognition - but trying to devise less structured ways to deal with recognition problems of each word. In some cases, I use a synonym of the key word. (In neither a. nor b. did I check carefully for words that would conflict if final vowels are dropped. In a., however, I had to use &amp;quot;accompany&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;with&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;kansa&amp;quot; in order to get a non-conflicting word without great gymnastics.)&lt;br /&gt;
## using English words, tied together with a visible hyphen which is to be pronounced as /yuh/ (this syllable is one proposal for hyphenating le&#039;avla), or prefixed with a hyphen so they don&#039;t get read as Lojban words. Nora&#039;s Loglan translator involved a step something like this, but added standard suffixes to convert between nouns, verbs, and adjectives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, how many of the Logenglish substitutes can you identify without going to the third passage? Do any of the substitutions help you recognize the meaning of the passage more easily? Anyone who wishes is welcome to try doing better at coming up with good Logenglish words for each gismu in the passage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e xutra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selpitxi parnysiste cu roroi belvi lenu ko&#039;a ba retru ko&#039;a ca lo ba daxta .I ko&#039;a noi se xacpo le smala je bronu spanydogvo poi ke&#039;a se losxe fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a xacpo ko&#039;a cu valkycomxo levi xinsi fo leva vindo ta&#039;i le pasta po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu resno lenu le vindo cu xopne conti fi ro le xevne parta pe ze&#039;o le nigvybetnytimxe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la selpitxi je selxinsi parnysista goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e talka mi lesu&#039;u levza ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u sposu goi ko&#039;e cu xacpo xonxu leko&#039;e xitxe je vatrynalpatru covrycotxo noi ke&#039;a xanga leko&#039;e xarma gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u xongysupre brote goi ko&#039;i cu singi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do lipxi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se singi semu&#039;i lenu xamzyxanxo ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xasre lenu le nunsingi cu xanxo ko&#039;u .I sei ko konvo be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei brezyvitxo je silna xevne poi ke&#039;a simli ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi tinkyvitxyxopni lenu ro ko&#039;a ba valkypatru leva vindo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e speka &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selpitli parnysista cu roroi belvi lenu ko&#039;a ba retru ko&#039;a ca lo ba dande .I ko&#039;a noi se copni le smalu je brona spanydogji poi ke&#039;a se losna fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a copni ko&#039;a cu valkycomgo levi ninsi fo leva vindo ta&#039;i le pasta po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu justi lenu le vindo cu kopne conti fi ro le nevne parta pe ze&#039;o le nignybetnytimne&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la selpitli je selninsi parnysista goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e talka mi lesu&#039;u levna ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u sposa goi ko&#039;e cu copni ponsu leko&#039;e blino je vatrynaltrugo covrycotsa noi ke&#039;a xanga leko&#039;e barma gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u zungymosta brote goi ko&#039;i cu singe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do jumpa li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se singe semu&#039;i lenu muzdyrirta ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u serta lenu le nunsinge cu rirta ko&#039;u .I sei ko konvo be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei brizyvitno je silna nevne poi ke&#039;a simla ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi tinkyvitnynopni lenu ro ko&#039;a ba valkytrugo leva vindo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
c.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e -utter &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la sel-pity -parent-sister cu roroi -believe lenu ko&#039;a ba -return ko&#039;a ca lo ba -day .I ko&#039;a noi se -accompany le -small je -brown -spanish-dog poi ke&#039;a se -lose fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a -accompany ko&#039;a cu -walk-go levi -in fo leva -window ta&#039;i le -past po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu -reason lenu le -window cu -open -continue fi ro le -evening -part pe ze&#039;o le -night-between-time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la sel-pity je sel-in -parent-sister goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e -talk mi lesu&#039;u -leave ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u -married goi ko&#039;e cu -accompany -possess leko&#039;e -white je -water-nal- pass_through -cover-coat noi ke&#039;a -hang leko&#039;e -arm gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u -young-superlative -brother goi ko&#039;i cu -sing &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do -leap li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se -sing semu&#039;i lenu -amusing-annoy ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u -assert lenu le nun-sing cu -annoy ko&#039;u .I sei ko -know be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei -breeze-without je -quiet -evening poi ke&#039;a -similar ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi -think-without-opine lenu ro ko&#039;a ba -walk-pass_through leva -window li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from David Morrow ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, has anyone tried to train animals using Lojban? Perhaps it would turn out more effective then natural languages for communication maybe with highly developed types like primates or those who are intelligent and very different like whales. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Not really, although I talk to my cat in Lojban, and he sometimes seems to know a few words - but it may be my tone of voice or the similarity to English words that does the trick. There aren&#039;t all that many people working seriously on training primates and dolphins, which are likely to be the only animals intelligent enough to deal with grammar at all. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David: Also, it seems to me that history can show whether Whorf-Sapir is right, though I&#039;ll admit the evidence is open to interpretation. However, the evidence seems to show that language&#039;s effect on thought is not so ironclad. Notice that highly inflected Latin and West Teutonic (ie, English) changed during the Dark Ages to predominantly analytical grammars that remain today. This might be ascribed to the changed mindset between Classical and Medieval civilizations, but German in its homeland remained inflected, and non-Indo-European languages like Basque and Hungarian (or rather their speakers) all participated in Medieval culture. Further, Modern civilization differs profoundly from Medieval and even Renaissance culture despite the fact that we could probably converse with Chaucer or Shakespeare. Indeed, our civilization probably resembles Roman and Hellenistic civilizations - at least in attitudes and philosophy - much more than it does the worlds of Alfred or Luther. Of course, we could view the attempts to develop artificial languages as a result of our outlook... &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I read a history of English not long ago. Researchers believe that English inflection was lost for a much different reason than you propose. Specifically, England was conquered twice in less than a century, first by the Danes, then by the Normans. The Danes spoke a North-Germanic language which was quite similar to West-Germanic Old-English in vocabulary and grammar. But the inflection pattern was different for most words. As the two peoples merged, the Danes learned English easily, but not the declensions. The same thing happened when the Normans conquered England - they generally didn&#039;t learn English, so English borrowed heavily from Norman French. But French also had different, incompatible declensions, and differences in gender, thus reinforcing the confusion when English speakers learned French. These two languages were so mutually incompatible that eventually Anglo-Normans reverted back to English when their ties to France weakened.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David: Still, I don&#039;t think thought is as constrained by language as might appear. Poetry struggles to overcome that limitation; most likely social factors constrain thought, like being burned at the stake for saying the Earth is a sphere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I think the Sapir-Whorf constraint, if it exists, is of a different nature. I think that the constraints of grammar may hinder our ability to manipulate concepts that are encoded into particular grammatical boxes. Where the hindrance is too severe, we avoid pursuing those lines of thought unless they are particularly fruitful and useful in the short term. Individuals, such as poets and geniuses like Einstein, may break through the barriers for one or two concepts, but the society as a whole cannot follow in their footsteps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Jamie Bechtel: ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Nomic&amp;quot; is a game designed to mimic the way a government works. All the rules of Nomic are subject to change, and the initial set of rules for any game of Nomic simply tell how to go about changing the rules. After a short while of playing Nomic, the game can easily be changed to the point where it is no longer the same game. Whether a person is playing by the rules or not, is determined almost entirely by judgement, which need not be bound by rules of precedent. Any game of Nomic can quickly expand to include all aspects of life. A description of Nomic can be found in the article &amp;quot;Nomic: A Self-Modifying Game Based on Reflexivity in Law&amp;quot; in the June &#039;82 Scientific American. It can also be found in Metamagical Themas by Douglas Hofstadter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A possible way to test Sapir-Whorf would be to create an artificial &amp;quot;game-culture&amp;quot; and test the influence of various languages on its development. It seems to me that a culture can be thought of as an extremely complex game that extends to all aspects of social interaction. Of course, culture differs from most games in various ways. Cultures have little distinction between the rules that compose the &amp;quot;games&amp;quot;, and the rules of skill (social skill). The rules of cultural-games are also constantly under change, (especially between individuals). Also, in natural cultures, it is not always clear when one is acting outside the cultural rules. But Nomic does have these traits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To test Sapir-Whorf (at least its influence on culture) you might create a flexible self-modifying game (like Nomic) that closely mimics most aspects of culture. You could then have several small populations of different linguistic-cultures, each starting out with the same game-culture, and then eventually developing their own. (The games will probably change the languages too - maybe just pragmatics). Testing the effects of various languages on these artificial game-cultures would be simple, since you would be able to see the change of the game&#039;s rules (since you could know the rules they started with). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Jim Carter ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Editor&#039;s Note: These comments were received and replied to via the network mail, and have been slightly revised to make them more clear to the general reader. In some cases there is non-standard technical vocabulary, and references to things Jim Carter has worked on apart from Lojban. Enough of the comments are relevant that we&#039;ve chosen to print them with minimal editing, and without trying to add much extra explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Some of the comments are in response to things in this issue (specifically the LogFest plans), and some are responses to items in JL10. Bob responds to some, but not all, of the comments.] &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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1. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;What short term applications for Lojban are worth highest priority?&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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* As a substitute for Pidgin English in linguistically impoverished areas (not exactly short term). &lt;br /&gt;
* Developing a parser-organizer -- not just a parse tree, but identify the antecedents of pronouns, which phrase ends up in which case, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;This has been extremely valuable to me in developing - gua!spi [ed. note: Carter&#039;s derivative of Loglan], as it reveals usage problems which are not at all obvious to an unaided human.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Approximate distribution of code lines:		   &lt;br /&gt;
Data structures, link-list subrt., etc.	  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
Word-related basic subroutines		  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
Reading	dictionary, lexer, parser,			   &lt;br /&gt;
  caselinks				  800		   &lt;br /&gt;
Arguments, infinitives,	compounds,			   &lt;br /&gt;
  replication				 1200		   &lt;br /&gt;
Modal phrases				   300		   &lt;br /&gt;
Pronouns, modal	antecedents, proper names 1400		   &lt;br /&gt;
Printing output				  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
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2. Replicated cases -- does Lojban have them? Does Lojban want them? For example, in &amp;quot;I want to swim&amp;quot;, who&#039;s going to swim? You or I? This is an example of a replicated case. Replicated cases have turned out to be much more important for -gua!spi than I originally anticipated. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: If I understand your referent, these are usually ellipsized in the natural languages, and are optionally so in Lojban, although in Lojban it is far more obvious that an ellipsis is taking place. Thus &amp;quot;I want to swim&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;mi djica lenu limna&amp;quot;, where limna is a bare selbri with the first place &#039;mi&#039; ellipsized, meaning literally &amp;quot;I want the event of &#039;... swims ...&#039;&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;I want the swimming&amp;quot;. You can of course be explicit with &amp;quot;mi djica lenu mi limna&amp;quot;, and we tend to do so in writing for new people. If the replicated place is more complicated and you don&#039;t want to repeat it, we have a couple of anaphoric ways to back reference the earlier place (or forward reference the later place - a very un-English thing to do).&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: Yes, Loglan abstractions lack arguments. But when you look carefully at what you (I) actually say, I find that literally 99% of the abstractions need an argument. Some gismu have cases which are usually occupied by abstractions, like djica x2, and these almost invariably need a copy of a main phrase argument (x1 for djica). Of course variants occur, as in &amp;quot;mi djica lenu do limna&amp;quot;. But the variants are much less common. Even rarer are open first arguments; in -gua!spi I tell the user to say &amp;quot;^:i !ji /daw !suy !jl&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;jl&amp;quot; is the anonymous variable. But this most rare form is the default in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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In modal phrases it turns out that most (maybe 80%) also need a replicated argument, but it&#039;s much more variable than in abstractions; it&#039;s about equally divided between &amp;quot;previous sentence&amp;quot; (in discursives), x1 of restricted phrase (in restrictive sub-clauses and many subordinate assertions), and &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; (for the rest of the sub-assertions). I have some rules worked out that are about 98% effective at getting the right replicated argument, with very little cueing from the user.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: I may be missing something here - I think we&#039;re saying the same thing. In normal conversational use in Lojban, people use a lot of abstractions. But normally, the x1 place of those abstractions is totally obvious from context; in fact, even without context, generally it is the x1 of the main bridi. The speaker is always permitted to omit &#039;obvious sumti&#039; as ellipsis, provided that the listener will understand the implied reference. Thus in Lojban usage, the replicated x1 place will often be left out. (But it can be referenced easily with a single cmavo pro-sumti if you really want to be explicit.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, as to other-than-x1 places of the abstraction, these tend to be specified about as often as they would be in the main bridi, and therefore might use replicated places. But again, our pro-sumti system handles this.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lojban, discursives and &#039;modal phrases&#039; (our sumti which are tagged with a sumti tcita, I think), are grammatically distinct from simple abstraction sumti, and a difference in the default interpretation of the ellipsis is less likely to be a problem. For subordinate assertions in relative clauses, we have the pro-sumti &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; to refer outward to the main assertion, but this can usually be ellipsized, too, just as in English (&amp;quot;The house that Jack built.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;The house that is built by Jack.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;The house such that Jack built it.&amp;quot; The latter is the translation of the Lojban phrasing of the colloquial English.)&lt;br /&gt;
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By the way, Institute Loglan does allow places on abstraction - they just make a grammatical distinction between an abstraction optionally with sumti, and one without sumti. This distinction is made in violation of audio-visual isomorphism (&amp;quot;lepo [mi] godzi&amp;quot; vs &amp;quot;le po godzi&amp;quot;), where in oral speech you cannot tell the intended grammar of the &amp;quot;po&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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3. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the language and declaring a conditional or unconditional baseline (freeze) on the grammar.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- Hooray! At last, an official Loglan grammar! (Now you can proceed to work on the organizational syntax level.) &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: If you mean the syntax of greater than sentence length constructs, it is already in the grammar. If you mean questions of anaphora interpretation, they&#039;re already defined. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: You wouldn&#039;t believe how hard I had to work to get &amp;quot;the speaker&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the listener&amp;quot; identified consistently, as well as &amp;quot;the reply sentence&amp;quot;. And that was only a small part of the organization work. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Ah! I think you are talking about computer recognition of anaphora in a multi-party conversation, given no clues as to who is talking. That isn&#039;t a grammatical problem, but rather an artificial intelligence problem.&lt;br /&gt;
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With live speakers, this isn&#039;t a problem - in any given utterance, we know who &#039;I&#039; am and who &#039;you&#039; are, and if there is any question in our minds, we can identify either with a vocative or a relative clause. In narrative recording of dialog, the narrator has to identify the speakers, too. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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4. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;There will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso Grebogi&#039;s proposal to have Lojban image languages using gismu based on single languages to make them easier to learn.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- Hiss, boo! I am of two minds on this. First, the main benefit to me of Loglan, and now -gua!spi, is its grammar and organization, and so it makes a lot of sense to use Lojban grammar on English vocabulary. I do this in the &amp;quot;English&amp;quot; output option of my parser-organizer. However, when you&#039;ve read as much of that swill as I have, you quickly learn that Loglan demands 1-1 correspondence between meaning and word mapping; &amp;quot;un-only&amp;quot; just doesn&#039;t cut it for &amp;quot;barely&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, case defaults, switches, replication, etc. are very specific and aren&#039;t present in English. Thus you&#039;re really learning Lojban or -gua!spi vocabulary, just without the words, and you might as well do the whole job right. &lt;br /&gt;
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5. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;Side issues may include applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including using such teaching to help them learn English better)&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- See above. I freely teach my kid -gua!spi grammar since it works pretty well on English and since it&#039;s more coherent than what he&#039;s getting in school.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;Carter&#039;s work, in particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re-making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are based on no longer acceptable tanru.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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- Plus playing fast and loose with the organizational compounding rules, such as they were under the Institute. This is an area that you should look at very closely: regularities in compound formation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: We want to see what large numbers of Lojbanists do in compound formation before making decisions. &#039;Let usage decide.&#039; Your experiences were relevant, but are only one set of data points. Besides you, only JCB ever made a great number of compounds, and we both know that his were awful (He still defends Institute Loglan &amp;quot;mormao&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; even though it requires a different interpretation of &amp;quot;madzo&amp;quot; in a compound than separate. Oh, and Faith Rich made a lot, too. But she (and most others who make compounds) made some bad ones too, based on JCB&#039;s patterns, and often overdefined or used English idiom. She also never wrote text, so what work she did with place structures is untested. In fact, almost everyone who makes lujvo forgets about place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: My point here is that compounds ought to have a specific meaning, and therefore need to be prescribed, not described.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Agreed that compounds must have a specified meaning, but who is doing the prescribing. Every linguist and lexicographer will tell you that a dictionary is-and-must-be descriptive of what people actually do, not prescriptive. The main difference in logical languages is that whoever does the dictionary must gather enough information to form a consensus on what actual usage dictates a word&#039;s meaning to be. To make this process easier, we&#039;ll quickly develop guidelines as to how to algorithmically derive the place structure by combining terms - probably quite similar to what you proposed several years ago for Institute Loglan. But if people don&#039;t choose to follow these guidelines when they make a new lujvo, it&#039;s their language, not the dictionary writers&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim:&lt;br /&gt;
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7. Responding to Bob&#039;s &amp;quot;In addition, the current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier lists.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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- Right on! Most if not all of your added gismu are in - gua!spi.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. Responding to the Institute&#039;s proposal to divide gismu into &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;verbs&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bodyparts&amp;quot;, etc. sounds rather familiar. In Old Loglan JCB defined all the motion words with the same cases (x1 = mover, x2 = destination, x3 = origin x4 = route), and many such categories were apparent that had somewhat uniform cases. I was able to adjust the definitions of a relatively small number of words and get the great majority of Loglan words into uniform case categories. This was the basis of my Loglan thesaurus, which I have continued into -gua!spi. HOWEVER, it was always my intention that the thesaurus categories were merely a learning aid, just as JCB says in L1 of the motion words, and if a category member seemed to need a variant definition I gave it one. For example under Clothes, &amp;quot;x1 is a boot&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;x1 is a coat&amp;quot;; etc.; but also &amp;quot;x1 is a curtain over x2&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;x1 is a garment worn by x2 on its body part x3&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot;, I&#039;m not averse to using that terminology for single-case gismu, as a tie-in for people who do have nouns in their native language. But of course the student has to be reminded that Lojban doesn&#039;t have special words for &amp;quot;is a&amp;quot; in sentences like &amp;quot;George is a horse&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;horse&amp;quot; is very verb-like in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. Responding to Athelstan&#039;s comments on Esperanto &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot;: - a. How does Esperanto get away with not having all the article variants that Lojban has? For that matter, how does English? Close attention to articles is one big benefit Loglan (and progeny) has brought to me. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: The distinctions made by Lojban aren&#039;t often consciously made in English and other languages, although different ones are used that are somewhat comparable. Thus le/lo correspond approximately to definite/indefinite articles in English; lo/loi corresponds approximately to the difference between &#039;count nouns&#039; and &#039;mass nouns&#039; - though nearly all English words are categorized as one or the other, whereas any Lojban word can be either. Names in English have no article, except for &#039;The Donald&#039; of recent news tabloids, and a few archaic usages surviving from when British explorers used them for faraway places like &#039;The Transvaal&#039;, and rivers like &#039;The Mississippi&#039;. In any case, the capital is enough to mark a name in English in most circumstances. Set descriptors are relatively un-useful in English. Now of course, all this is excuses - English is just a vague language, but it does have some complex structure to its articles and their equivalents. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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b. I suggest that you nail down official terminology for &amp;quot;case&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sumti place&amp;quot;, and so on. In Latin there are a finite number (six?) of official cases, which are used semi-idiosyncratically on each word, much like Lojban&#039;s x1, x2, x3, x4, x5 (or Loglan&#039;s X, Y, Q, H, W). As I use the words, a gismu is a relation between one or more &amp;quot;cases&amp;quot;, much as a function takes arguments. However, what you&#039;re talking about is places into which actual parameters can be substituted. The actual parameter can be called a &amp;quot;case occupant&amp;quot;. Here are some examples: &lt;br /&gt;
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sin(x), x being an angle in radians. &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; IS the first case of sin. (Or &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; is the symbol representing the first case of sin.) sin(pi). pi OCCUPIES the first case of sin, not &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;represents&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;x1 is the house of resident x2&amp;quot;. x1 is the first case (or represents). &amp;quot;That is my house&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;That&amp;quot; occupies the first case, and &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; occupies the second.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus the &amp;quot;accusative case&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;x2 case&amp;quot; is actually a set of what I would call &amp;quot;cases&amp;quot;, one per word, so you would more naturally say &amp;quot;the accusative case of &#039;flecto&#039;&amp;quot;. The relation &amp;quot;case&amp;quot; isn&#039;t very useful without its x2 case being occupied by a specific word. (This despite the Institute&#039;s idea to codify definition regularities by designating specific meanings for specific cases, e.g. x1 is &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; an actor, except that isn&#039;t true.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: A &#039;bridi&#039; is a relation among &#039;sumti places&#039;; a &#039;gismu&#039; is only a word form - the five letter brivla (bridi-valsi = bridi-words) that can be combined into lujvo compounds using their rafsi affixes. The relationship of a bridi is indicated by the &#039;selbri&#039; (erroneously called &#039;kunbri&#039; for a while). A selbri may be an individual gismu or other brivla, or it may be a tanru metaphor. We avoid &#039;case&#039;, along with other linguistic terms that have different definitions for different people (do we mean accusative/nominative/genitive, or actor/beneficiary). Thus, what JCB calls &#039;case tags&#039;, and I think you call &#039;modals&#039;, we call &#039;sumti tcita&#039; or &#039;sumti tags&#039; that label a sumti as to the relationship it holds to the rest of the bridi, or in a relative clause, to the sumti to which it is attached. (All this confusing and conflicting grammar terminology is why la lojbangirz. uses Lojban words in its teaching materials. Any English word we use gets attacked by experts who say that we are using the wrong jargon word for the concept as it is understood in their specialty. We cannot afford to misuse jargon if we want to gain academic respectability.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: 10. My comments on Bob&#039;s answers to questions from students in Dr. Gorsch&#039;s class on semiotics: - Without question, different languages slice up the pie differently. My own favorite example was when my wife and I were buying a picture frame. She was chattering with the storekeeper in Chinese, choosing which one, and finally decided: &amp;quot;|mai /hong -kuang&amp;quot;. Now I know a little bit of Chinese, and &amp;quot;/hong&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;red&amp;quot;. So he takes down a BLACK frame. It turns out that whatever the luminance, if the hue is red then you can call the thing &amp;quot;/hong&amp;quot;, whereas in English, things below a certain luminance are &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; whatever the hue.&lt;br /&gt;
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The same is true on phonemes. I have to hear a word repeated several times before I can distinguish between Chinese &#039;q&#039; and &#039;x&#039; (matching English &#039;sh&#039;), whereas they have trouble distinguishing our &#039;l&#039; and &#039;r&#039; even though they have their own versions of both phonemes.&lt;br /&gt;
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I despair of ever writing down in a dictionary an authoritative statement of the denotation of a word. &amp;quot;Red&amp;quot; is so obvious: 670 nanometers. Yet you can trip up on a little detail of luminance. Now try to define &amp;quot;liberty&amp;quot;. Connotations, as noted by the student, are even more slippery. I solve the problem by slicing the pie with connotation on the outside: the kinds of connotations mentioned by this and other class members are simply too complex for 20th century logic and database software to handle, and so, connotations will have to wait for major advances in the study of language artifacts.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the third question, I find that my referent boundaries and connotations were not changed by learning Loglan -- since, of course, JCB didn&#039;t emphasize referent boundaries -- but the major effects were that the predicate logic definition of the words makes them much clearer to me, and certain grammar elements, particularly the articles, the abstractions and the tenses, fill gaps in English that I feel a need for.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Learning to write good dictionary definitions is non-trivial. Even if you feel that the best modern dictionaries convey definitions well, which Jim suggests is not the case, the people who write those definitions are bound by space limitations. They also spend years learning to write such definitions, and the results still go through several editing passes. Lojban words, each referring to a single concept, should be easier to define, but I still expect that our first attempts will fall far short of the state of the art.&lt;br /&gt;
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Right now, I&#039;m going through an intensive self-teaching in lexicography right now, so the problems are clear to me. But neither Jim, nor anyone else who isn&#039;t concentrating full time on dictionary work, should expect to be able to write good definitions for words.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for colors and the like - we cheat in Lojban. &amp;quot;Red&amp;quot; means &#039;what you want it to mean&#039;. You add a sumti tcita indicating things like the standard you are using (which could be a wavelength standard, or might simply be labelled &#039;the Chinese standard&#039;). You also may throw in sumti for &#039;against background&#039; and &#039;to observer&#039;, since colors are perceived. But since most people don&#039;t clearly mean any of these when they mention colors, we make all of the places optional. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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11. Regarding le lojbo se ciska pe la maiky&#039;elsym: His experience with learning Lojban sounds very similar to mine learning Loglan -- though I think he has benefitted greatly from the lessons and the live feedback that you have provided. &lt;br /&gt;
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12. On page 45 bottom, you say that the glue in a compound is always &#039;r&#039; unless the second rafsi begins with &#039;r&#039;. I believe I tangled with a similar Institute rule. &#039;n&#039; has to be lexically valid in place of &#039;r&#039;; why not allow the speaker to choose what sounds most pleasing? &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: No inherent objection, but most people don&#039;t want a choice, especially one based on personal aesthetics, and it sure makes the computer program harder (and which goes into the dictionary?). The expandable forms are justified by the pragmatics of redundancy - longer lujvo contain more information for a noisy environment (a criticism of - gua!spi and other affix-primitive varieties is that they reduce redundancy too far in a language already pushing redundancy requirements on the lower limit. But we may discuss this proposal at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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13. Regarding comments from jyjym.: In -gua!spi I also decided that nationalities and national money units should not have primitive words (gismu), for the same reasons. Also, I define &amp;quot;gua&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;x1 is the language of people x2&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;spi&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;x1 is a member of the local culture&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;local&amp;quot; is defined relative to the group the speaker is (currently) in. Thus -gua!spi means, literally, the local native language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The idea is that by speaking this particular language the speaker places himself into a particular culture, from which self-referential words have a unique meaning. I should post this definition in sci.lang -- but my mailer would overflow with people telling me what a dumb idea this is!&lt;br /&gt;
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14. Regarding changing &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;: The whole issue of gismu negations is a can of worms. For example, should you say &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;un-good&amp;quot;? I think that as a matter of policy, negated gismu should be discouraged (shades of 1984) unless they clearly are used frequently. Go through all the text you have so far -- admittedly not too expert, from the students -- and identify all compounds ever used with zmadu, and judge whether, had ckamu had a decent rafsi, a compound with ckamu would have been more felicitous. Make the decision by the resulting numbers. The main problem will be to decide in each case if it&#039;s too wordy to use the conversion of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;. I&#039;ll bet, actually, that you get a decidedly uneven bias towards positive gismu (where &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; is the natural choice).&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: This is partly addressed in the gismu proposals section above. Looking at usage so far will tell nothing useful. English has an irregular split between words that are negated by un- and words that have an apparent opposite that is a different root. Lojban usage so far has exactly mirrored English, since English speakers have written almost all of the Lojban that exists (which isn&#039;t much). NO ONE yet writes a Lojbanic seeming idiom. (Helsem tries in his poetry, but in several cases you can tell that he thought of an idea in English and translated it word-for-word in to Lojban. The results have been pretty bad grammatically at times, though he learns.) But he is the best writer outside of DC. I suspect that I can write a Lojbanic idiom, but I have not yet started writing in Lojban on my own - my evidence is my translation of Arabian Nights, which I am doing in a very non-English idiom in places (and I don&#039;t know Arabic).&lt;br /&gt;
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In any case, we do use &#039;more&#039; and &#039;less&#039; in English in some pattern, though I&#039;ll agree that the positive comparison is more frequent than the negative one. We also use &#039;not less than&#039; and &#039;not more than&#039; (which are of course not quite opposites, since they include the equality middle). Presumably the usage patterns have some metaphysical basis - there are times when people want to express &#039;less than&#039; as a positive comparison. Since Lojban tries to remove restrictions rather than add them when possible, we should make some effort to model this feature of natural language. Why should Lojban restrict negative thinking?&lt;br /&gt;
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The several other gismu being proposed for consideration at Logfest include some where we don&#039;t want to assume that the negative of the existing gismu is identical to the positive of its &#039;opposite&#039;. Thus we are proposing &#039;ugly&#039; to correspond to &#039;beautiful&#039;, &#039;diffuse&#039; to correspond to &#039;concentrated&#039;, etc. Since we have other pairs of this type in Lojban, we have to at least consider these. &lt;br /&gt;
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From John Cowan: &lt;br /&gt;
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Herewith a few tidbits that may interest Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
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In describing Lojban to a group of friends, I mentioned as a virtue the default tenselessness of Lojban sentences. An English-speaker and an English/Spanish-speaker both expressed puzzlement: &amp;quot;Why would you want to say something without mentioning tense?&amp;quot; Rather than replying directly, I chose to describe a little bit about the Navajo language. I don&#039;t know Navajo, so what I say here is subject to correction.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Navajo, it is necessary to mention all sorts of things that English finds unnecessary to specify. The sentence &amp;quot;You eat blueberries&amp;quot;, for example, must be rendered as &amp;quot;You [pl.] eat separable objects one at a time.&amp;quot; The vagueness of English about singular/plural in the case of &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; is impossible to render in Navajo, as is the vagueness of &amp;quot;eat&amp;quot;. The Navajo fence-rider cannot simply report &amp;quot;Fence broken&amp;quot;; he must mention whether the breakage appeared to be accidental, deliberate, or the result of an animal&#039;s act. Likewise it is impossible to say &amp;quot;They went thataway!&amp;quot; in Navajo. The direction of motion must be nailed down, as must the mode of travel, as must the distinction between going &amp;gt;to&amp;lt; a place and going &amp;gt;toward&amp;lt; a place, or going to a place and passing it on the way to another place, etc. etc. etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By comparison, English is downright sloppy. The Navajo-speaker&#039;s reaction to English is &amp;quot;How can I know what the &amp;gt;belagana&amp;lt; are talking about?&amp;quot; From within English itself, this sloppiness seems more like a freedom. It is not necessary to pin down all these details to make a grammatical English sentence. Lojban, although it can be as precise as Navajo, can also be even vaguer than English, leaving even the details English thinks are fundamental unspecified. This gives Lojban an additional range of expressiveness not present in any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems there has been much dispute recently about the &#039; character, which the Lojban materials say is pronounced like the English &amp;quot;h&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Why not use the letter &#039;h&#039;, then?&amp;quot; In JL10, lojbab gives a number of reasons for not using a letter. It seems to me that confusion might be avoided by explaining the role of the buffer sound differently. (I have checked this with lojbab.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider the word &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot;. An English-based view of this would be that it contains four sounds, &amp;quot;c&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, an h-like sound, and another &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;. This is also the view of the current Lojban material. Another view, however, says that the four sounds are &amp;quot;c&amp;quot;, a standard &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, an &amp;gt;unvoiced&amp;lt; &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, and then another standard &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;. In other words, the two &amp;quot;o&amp;quot; sounds are separated by an interval of time when sound is being produced, the vocal tract is in the position for &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, but voicing has been &amp;quot;turned off&amp;quot;. In the sequence &amp;quot;o&#039;o&amp;quot;, the three sounds are separated only by boundaries between voicing and non-voicing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What about words where the &#039; separates two distinct vowels, for example, &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;? In this case, there is the same pattern of voiced vowel + unvoiced vowel + voiced vowel; the unvoiced vowel may be either &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;-like or &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;- like -- I myself tend to make it &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;-like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This makes for a nice symmetry between . and &#039; . . signifies a period of no sound production at all -- voicing turned off, exhaling turned off. During &#039; , voicing is turned off but exhaling continues, producing a voiceless vowel. Exactly which voiceless vowel does not matter, since Lojban does not distinguish between the different possibilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: I am not proposing that this long-winded explanation replace the basic instruction to beginners of &amp;quot;Pronounce an &#039;h&#039;&amp;quot;! It is merely available in reserve, to be trotted out when the student asks &amp;quot;If it sounds like an &#039;h&#039;, why not use the letter &#039;h&#039;&amp;quot;? Then you can reply, &amp;quot;It&#039;s not &amp;gt;really&amp;lt; an h-sound at all, it&#039;s a voiceless vowel.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I like the explanation, which explains the intent. One note on &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. I suspect that in the &#039;voiceless time&#039; in between vowels that are different, you are expressing a &#039;voiceless vowel glide&#039;. If you don&#039;t turn off the vocal cords, the sound you get is /kowa/, where the /w/ is the glide. It is this glide that we are trying to &#039;devoice&#039; with the &#039; , because if the glide were audibly voiced, it would be impossible to distinguish &amp;quot;*koa&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;koua&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;ko,ua&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Mathematical nit:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &#039;tanjo&#039; means &#039;trigonometric tangent&#039;, how do we say &#039;geometric tangent&#039;? Why are the trigonometric functions given gismu rather than being handled by something in MEX? If &#039;tangent&#039;, why not &#039;Riemann zeta&#039;, or &#039;factorial&#039;? -------- Bob: We could generalize &amp;quot;tanjo&amp;quot; to include both, but I suspect that you can do a short tanru for &#039;geometric tangent&#039;, but not for &#039;trigonometric tangent&#039;. The primary reason for including both &amp;quot;sinso&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tanjo&amp;quot; was so the concepts, as opposed to the mathematical functions/operations themselves could be talked about. Trigonometric functions are basic to mathematics and many other fields - not all purely scientific - as wave-forms (shapes), yet in English we can only talk about these in terms of their mathematical function &#039;names&#039;. You could make a tanru like square-triangle-ke-opposite-ce&#039;o-adjacent-ke-side-ratio (no, I won&#039;t make the lujvo), which captures the original intent. But a non-mathematician - say an artist - can talk in Lojban about &#039;tangent curve&#039; (tanjykru) without knowing the mathematical basis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the others that are excluded - lack of usage frequency, or any metaphorical advantage outside of one field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Another book for the list, too simple for you probably but I would recommend it to people who want to understand Lojban&#039;s underlying basis: Semantics, by Geoffrey Leech. (Penguin Books, 1974, no ISDN.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s a simple introduction to the subject in plain language, and much of the explication in the central chapters reads like a point-by-point explanation of Lojban grammatical structures -- though without reference to Lojban, of course! --------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Here&#039;s my proposal for a super-simple le&#039;avla algorithm:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojbanize the word to be &#039;borrowed&#039; by the methods used for cmene.&lt;br /&gt;
# Convert all y&#039;s to some other vowel or to a vocalic consonant.&lt;br /&gt;
# Modify the ending to be a vowel, either by dropping a final consonant or by adding an extra vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
# Modify the beginning to be a consonant, either by adding a extra consonant or dropping an initial vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
# Choose a gismu (not a rafsi) that categorizes the le&#039;avla into a &amp;quot;topic area&amp;quot;. Replace the final vowel of the gismu with a vocalic &#039;r&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Prefix the modified gismu to produce the final le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
spaghetti -&amp;gt; cidjrspageti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;maple tree -&amp;gt; tricrmeipli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;maple sugar -&amp;gt; saktrmeipli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;mathematical integral -&amp;gt; cmacrnintegra or cmacrntegra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;brie -&amp;gt; cirlrbri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;cobra -&amp;gt; sincrkobra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;quark -&amp;gt; saskrkuarka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;iambic -&amp;gt; pemcrniambo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Good proposal, and it appears to generate good words, so people can use it for now (note that in step 5., you may have to use an &amp;quot;n&amp;quot; instead of an &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;, though, to avoid a doubled letter). It takes only minor modifications to allow this to be used with rafsi (I think). You glue the rafsi on in almost the same way, but always use a gluing vocalic consonant with a 3-letter rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, this ends our biggest issue yet - and in only 6 weeks turnaround!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Map to LogFest 90 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You need to get to Interstate 66, on the West side of Washington D.C., just outside of its &#039;Beltway&#039; freeway as shown on the map below. For those who attended in previous years, our exit from the freeway is now a cloverleaf, so the exit from the freeway is different, and Nutley St. has been shifted near our house, so it will look much different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the West on I-66, take Exit 17, Nutley St. going South (to your right). This exit did not really exist last year, though it was possible to play games going through the Vienna Metro Station parking lot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Taking the southbound exit to your right you want to enter Nutley St. (not the Metro parking lot). You need to get over to the left lane fairly quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a traffic light one block away from the overpass (Swanee Lane on the left). You will see a grassy slope on your left ahead, and a large office building behind some trees ahead on your right. A very short block later (opposite the office building), there is a left turn lane. You turn left here on Hermosa Dr. Go to the end of this street - only about 3 houses, and turn left on Beau Ln. Bob &amp;amp; Nora&#039;s house will be the first non-corner house, directly opposite the cross-street Suteki Dr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the East - Exit the Beltway for I-66 Westbound &#039;Front Royal&#039;. You will go about 1 1/2 miles and take Exit 17 - Nutley St., which is the first exit possible after leaving the Beltway. There is a very long ramp - stay on it, and take Nutley St. South which exits the ramp just after the overpass. You will join with Nutley St. and must move left quickly to merge. Thereafter, get in the left lane, and follow the instructions in the last paragraph of From the West section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Some More Logo Proposals ===&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_12_moi&amp;diff=124082</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 12 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_12_moi&amp;diff=124082"/>
		<updated>2020-08-14T03:00:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 13 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 12 - May 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 90 - 15-18 Jun 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Details Inside. Also: Negation, Indicators, News, and more.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of their total deductible donations. We note for all po- tential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Press run for this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli: 350. We now have over 660 people on our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Your Mailing Label &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your mailing label reports your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue. Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category. Balances reflect contributions received thru 21 May 1990. Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level R - This is a Review Copy for Publications &lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Level 3 - Level 2 materials and lesson materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If your level number has an &#039;*&#039; by it, we need to hear from you. This indicates that we have had no contact from you in over a year, and either have not paid for any materials, or have a negative balance in excess of $25.00. If we have not heard from you before late July (JL13/LK13), we will have to lower you to &#039;Level 0&#039; at that time. We&#039;re perfectly willing to send JL to people who cannot pay, as long as we get feedback indicating that you are using the materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue is coming out only a month after the last, as we try to catch up on our tardy publication from last year. Thus, no Lojban text this issue, except for incidental examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The issue is dominated by two long papers, describing the proposed modifications for negation and indicators/attitudinals. These are comprehensive, even more so than the textbook discussion will be. The negation paper may be tough reading, but has lots of examples. The attitudinal paper is lacking in usage examples primarily because of time, and the lack of a comparable system in English. The two papers are bound separately from the rest of the issue; many &#039;level 3&#039; students will wish to bind these papers with their draft textbook materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our regular news section includes information about LogFest 90, and we also present several lesser proposals to be considered and decided at LogFest. We want your opinion on these.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please forgive any substandard editing, especially odd formats. We had a hard disk failure the day this was to go to the printer, and this represents an intricate but hurried reconstruction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest Plans						       --3&lt;br /&gt;
  In Memoriam -	Faith Rich and Preston Maxwell		       --5&lt;br /&gt;
  Finances						       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Research and Development				       --6&lt;br /&gt;
  Growth and Publicity					       --9&lt;br /&gt;
  Education						      --10&lt;br /&gt;
  International	News - Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans		      --10&lt;br /&gt;
  Products and Policy					      --11&lt;br /&gt;
  News About the Institute				      --14&lt;br /&gt;
A Brief	Introduction to	Predicates and Place Structures, by Athelstan --15&lt;br /&gt;
Proposals to be	Decided	at LogFest			      --16&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses			      --27&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Proposed Revision of Attitudinals and Indicators, On Lojban Negation, Some	More Proposed Logos, Map to&lt;br /&gt;
  LogFest 90&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files (including things for JL publication) to Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can join the Lojban news-group by sending your mailing address to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and traffic to the news-group can be sent to: lojban-list@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;.uu.net&amp;quot; trailer on the above address is likely to change soon. We&#039;ll notify you by e-mail when we have firm information, and provide updated information here next issue. There will be some transition period after the change, during which this address will still work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. For example, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly number of you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before the news section. Note that some people choose to write under a pseudonym which is initial-like, as jyjym. did last issue - we prefer to print names of our correspondents, but will consider allowing a pseudonym if the author requests privacy and we feel the writing is important enough to publish. Note that &#039;Athelstan&#039; is that person&#039;s real name, used in his public life, and is not a pseudonym. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;pc&#039; - Dr. John Parks-Clifford, Professor of Logic and Philosophy at the University of Missouri - St. Louis and Vice-President of la lojbangirz.; he prefers to be addressed as &#039;pc&#039;. As an incidental news item, pc is getting married on 18 May, and his new bride will be accompanying him when he comes to LogFest in June.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;Bob&#039;, &#039;lojbab&#039; - Bob LeChevalier - President of la lojbangirz., and editor of Ju&#039;i Lobypli and le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;JCB&#039;, &#039;Jim Brown&#039;- Dr. James Cooke Brown, inventor of the language, and founder of the Loglan project.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&#039;The Institute&#039; - The Loglan Institute, Inc., JCB&#039;s organization for spreading his version of Loglan. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== LogFest Plans ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest 90 will be held from Friday thru Monday the weekend of 15-18 June 1990; most of the planned activities will be within the weekend proper. The annual meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. is set for Sunday morning, the 17th, by our bylaws, and is the one absolutely fixed item for the gathering. All other dates and times discussed below are subject to change depending on what attendees want to do and/or talk about. This meeting is for YOU, so make sure we know what is important to you. Especially let us know if you can only come for part of the weekend, and have a particular topic you want to talk about; we&#039;ll try to move things around to fit you in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the feedback we&#039;ve been getting, we&#039;re expecting more people at LogFest this year than in previous years. For the benefit of our planning, please let us know if you are coming (or if you &#039;might be&#039; coming - we don&#039;t need ironclad commitments). There&#039;s no penalty for not doing so - we simply have a smoother, better planned gathering if you do.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have plenty of sleeping space, especially for those with sleeping bags and/or tents. Families are welcome, provided that they have sleeping bags too (there are motels within a couple of miles, but the DC area isn&#039;t cheap); we also need financial help if we&#039;re going to feed families.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, if your coming depends on finding transportation to Washington DC, let us know. There may be someone else coming from the same place or direction that you can rideshare with. This is especially likely for the Northeast corridor, from Boston down to Washington. Be sure to specify what dates you want to attend, the earliest you can leave home and the latest you can return home to make ride-sharing feasible. If you have access to the computer network, you might also consider posting a notice on &#039;lojban-list&#039;, so that others who are thinking &amp;quot;maybe&amp;quot; will more likely consider going, with the knowledge of reduced transportation costs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What will be going on at LogFest? We will have two major themes this time:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* How can we help more people learn Lojban easier?&lt;br /&gt;
* What short term applications for Lojban are worth highest priority?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the language and declaring a conditional or unconditional baseline (freeze) on the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for details.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be several things going on simultaneously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Some main track discussions, generally related to the themes above, which Bob will probably be leading or helping out with;&lt;br /&gt;
* 1 or 2 computer rooms, with 2-3 MS-DOS machines, Art Wieners&#039; UNIX machine, and whatever else people bring. Art and others will usually be in there demonstrating existing software, and working on new software including the parser. There will be a little bit of computer talk on the main track, but we will generally be trying to make it so non-computer types can understand what is going on.&lt;br /&gt;
* Athelstan, and possibly others, will be helping with new Lojbanists. Athelstan will give mini-lessons at times scheduled below (if there are people interested then), but he will also be available impromptu for mini-lessons, explanations of grammar points, and demonstration of the flash card technique.&lt;br /&gt;
* On occasion throughout the weekend we&#039;ll hold short sessions of all-Lojban conversation - typically a half hour or less so that non-speakers don&#039;t get bored, or frustrated. These sessions will probably occur in between main discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specific schedules as they stand: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Friday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7PM - Athelstan mini-lesson (about 1 hr.), if there are people present who haven&#039;t been to one&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8PM - After the mini-lesson (or starting earlier if there is none), there will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso Grebogi&#039;s proposal (later in this issue) to have Lojban image languages using gismu based on single languages to make them easier to learn. Side issues may include applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including using such teaching to help them learn English better), and other aspects of making Lojban easier to learn for people than it currently is. Dr. Yorke will be at the session, but has schedule constraints that mean that he can only attend early in the weekend, so the Friday night schedule is relatively fixed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday morning - additional discussion about teaching and learning Lojban, including any leftover discussions from the night before. Bob hopes to have new textbook lesson drafts for people to look at and comment on, so here&#039;s your chance to make a difference before the book is finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If there is interest, we will start side discussions at that point on how to organize and lead a class when you don&#039;t know the language yourself. Athelstan and John Hodges will both be there, and both have done this now. Eric Tiedemann will, we hope, be there to report on the initial work by the New York City class. We want to stimulate new class efforts, even if only 2-3 people are participating. Athelstan is hoping to launch 2 classes, one in Virginia and one in Maryland, at LogFest or immediately afterwards. We are also considering instituting a weekly Lojban conversation session to start with or shortly after LogFest (this may end up having to wait until fall - simply because Athelstan may be spread too thin.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1PM - Another Lojban mini-lesson, if there is demand.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday afternoon will include a discussion of voice recognition, the Lojban parser, AI work and various other computer processing projects. Art Wieners will tell about his fairly extensive efforts, including word recognition and analysis, as well as Artificial Intelligence applications for Lojban. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who has been leading the parser efforts, is having to drop out of Lojban work for a while, and won&#039;t be coming. We will be looking for new parser helpers (C programming language, preferably in an MS-DOS environment), and there may be technical side-discussions. Eric Raymond, host of &#039;lojban-list&#039;, our computer network mail-server, has been working on porting LogFlash to Unix, and will talk about what he&#039;s done. Nora and I will talk about planned new software and enhancements, and we&#039;ll accept proposals for others. All software (and other products) will be available for demonstration, examination, and (of course) purchase. (Oh, yes; and everybody in the world will be trying to convince Bob and Nora to switch from MS-DOS to UNIX; Good luck!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saturday nite - Bob will lead discussions about textbook plans, dictionary plans, and take suggestions. We&#039;ll also talk about the recent change proposals to the language. Non-controversial ones will get a quick decision; the rest will be deferred for further discussion on Sunday or later - all attendees have a vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday morning is the la lojbangirz. business meeting. Expect business-y things. Most people tend to sleep in late on Sunday morning after two late nights, so we&#039;ve put this at a low ebb time to keep from boring people. We hope to finish the meeting by noon. The agenda is not yet known. Topics typically include finances, plans and priorities. All attendees are welcome to participate informally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday afternoon, we will discuss gismu list change proposals, hopefully briefly, and make a group decision on whether we are ready to baseline the Lojban grammar. If so, the language is DONE!!!! Practically speaking, expect a conditional baseline, possibly excluding MEX, and possibly waiting either for the parser or the textbook to be completed or both, before it becomes a full freeze. (More on this below, under R &amp;amp; D).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
around 3PM? - A final scheduled mini-lesson; this time an advanced lesson for people who have already had the basic mini-lesson. This may continue into a longer tutorial, if there is demand, but will otherwise last an hour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sunday nite and Monday will be left unscheduled for whatever comes up - invariably something runs overtime. Besides, many out-of-towners will have left by then, though pc and probably Art Wieners will still be here. pc and family plan to arrive on Wednesday the 13th. Art usually comes for a full week, but his dates are not yet known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other activities will be dependent on demand:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some have suggested a group effort to write or translate something, perhaps a short essay reporting on LogFest. As a possibility, we have an ancient back burner project to update Jim Carter&#039;s short story in old Loglan to current Lojban, and a similar effort involving an old story by Bob Chassell. These are non-trivial and will not be finished in a weekend, but are easier than composing raw text; people can get a good start and those who want to can continue on their own. Carter&#039;s work, in particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re-making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are based on no longer acceptable tanru. In addition, we&#039;ve found that the current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier lists, making some tanru simpler or even unnecessary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be other side discussions as people desire. Speak up now with your favorite topic. Some possibilities include lujvo making, and good tanru for various words, etc. One topic we&#039;re not sure how many are interested in is the making of le&#039;avla borrowings; any decisions on the algorithm have to be made before the textbook session on the topic is written.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will be having Lojban conversation as mentioned above, possibly with on longer session towards the end (when more people feel comfortable with trying to say things) if there is demand for it. To keep costs down, we need people to bring their own word lists, etc., though we&#039;ll have inventory if needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are thinking about ordering stuff, it saves us postage to give it to you there and let you carry it home. But we need to have a good number of people pay for stuff there in order to do this. We will probably have no money in the bank after LogFest to restock inventory, except what we collect at the meeting. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logistics:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We generally put up a good spread of food to keep people from going hungry We&#039;re asking for contributions of $5-15 per day towards costs (and preferably more, if you can help), but there is no mandatory admission charge. If we don&#039;t get enough volunteer cash flow, this will be the last year of voluntary giving. To pay for LogFest, we will probably need more than the $600 spent last year, depending on attendance, which we expect to be double or more. (That $600 doesn&#039;t include all costs, only those paid by la lojbangirz. - it averages out to about $30 per person, including those who only came for part of the weekend.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As mentioned above, families are welcome if you bring sleeping bags and tent or trailer. We&#039;ll have at least one adult and one 13-year-old non-Lojbanist here for the weekend, so there will probably be some side activities such as sightseeing in DC or shopping at the malls, or whatever for disinterested spouses and kids. Let us know if you&#039;re bring extras along so we can plan for food, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are close to DC&#039;s Metro system and right off the freeway. There are detailed directions and a map enclosed with this issue. Of course, if you have any questions, just ask.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== In Memoriam ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve recently heard of the deaths of two noteworthy supporters of the language, Faith Rich (Chicago, IL) and Preston Maxwell (Seattle, WA). Our sympathy goes to their families and friends, and we of the Lojban community will miss them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Faith Rich has been for the last several years the most prolific inventor of tanru and new words for the language. While she did most of her work with The Loglan Institute, she also has assisted la lojbangirz., especially when we were attempting to baseline the gismu list. Faith may have devised over 3000 tanru and lujvo as part of the Eaton project, an attempt to provide comprehensive vocabulary coverage for the most frequently used concepts in 4 European languages. A long-time supporter of the international language movement, she was in her late 70&#039;s when doing this work, and had expressed no hope of living until the language reached fruition. Yet, she was a fervent believer that Loglan/Lojban was worthwhile and important work, and provided hard effort and constant support over the years.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The community knows less of Preston Maxwell, who joined us only a couple of years ago. However, Preston was one of the first people to try to learn Lojban on his own. Preston was a skilled translator with experience in several non-Indo-European languages. He was especially intrigued by Lojban&#039;s attempt to free itself of European biases and to support structures and concepts of non-Indo-European tongues. Some of his early writings, Lojban versions of non-Indo-European short tales, were published in earlier JL issues; these were the first attempts at writing &#039;natural Lojban&#039;, and the first writings by someone who had not previously learned earlier versions of Loglan. Preston also attempted to organize the Seattle community, though without success. Hopefully, others there will be inspired to proceed in his stead.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These two deaths remind us of our mortality. People are always saying that they&#039;ll learn Lojban &#039;later&#039;, when they have &#039;more time&#039;, or when the language is &#039;done&#039;, or has &#039;practical use&#039;. Faith and Preston didn&#039;t wait till &#039;later&#039;, they made time for Lojban, and they found reasons why working on the language now is worthwhile. In their memory, we ask other Lojbanists to do the same.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Should we bore you by complaining about finances again? We have to. It wouldn&#039;t be JL, otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The best I can say is that we are paying our bills, or at least most of them. Our legal bills have to be paid off slowly because of our rule limiting legal and other expenses to 30% of all expenses. The side benefit of that rule is that the money reserved for those legal bills is the only thing keeping our bank balance positive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To keep us financially afloat, we&#039;ve figuratively &#039;put the brakes on&#039; spending by la lojbangirz. We&#039;ve spent about $3300 this year as of the publication of this issue, only 3/4 of what we had spent last year by this time. Unfortunately, our income is similarly lagging behind last year&#039;s. In spite of over 50% more people, we&#039;re getting less money in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major drop has been in donations. In spite of our 501(c)(3) status, only a couple of people have donated money to the organization above and beyond balance contributions. Thus we are hurt more by the large number of you who aren&#039;t contributing. Remembering that we don&#039;t make any money on our publications, every non-payee has to be supported from donations. The small amount of money we make on software doesn&#039;t cover the phone bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The price will eventually have to be paid. We are going to be mounting a major drive to add European Lojbanists during Athelstan&#039;s trip later this year. Overseas postage is enormously expensive, and we will not easily support these new Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The result is that we are likely to have to borrow money to publish the textbook and dictionary. We&#039;ve worked hard to get a good credit rating, and can probably get loans of the size we need, but interest costs would seriously crimp our future budget. Loans also mean that we&#039;ll have to charge more for the books, perhaps as much as $5 to $10 more than we&#039;d like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To put it simply, we have to find between $4000 and $6000 to publish each book (more likely the latter figure). If every JL subscriber buys 1 copy, this probably means a $20 price tag each, which will probably hurt sales, especially among non-US Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This also means that we won&#039;t be able to publish the dictionary until we&#039;ve sold a lot of textbooks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you covering your balance? Could you help by $5 or $10 more? Could you consider donating to the textbook fund, whether $5 or $50 (or more - wishful thinking)?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The answer to these questions could make a BIG difference in Lojban&#039;s success. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research and Development ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Accomplishments - We&#039;ve accomplished a lot in only a month. The two major papers in this issue are the product of several months work each, but were finally brought to fruition this month, thanks to pc&#039;s visit and Bob&#039;s sweating a lot of ink (Bob&#039;s aging printer is going through a ribbon a week these days).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming the adoption of these two analyses, only three chunks of the language have significant open questions. These are the tense system, MEX, and the making of le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tense - The most significant grammatically is the Lojban tense structure. When pc was in Washington, we discussed the subject thoroughly, and what remains is to incorporate the decisions into the grammar and write it up. The incorporation will take only a few days work - the grammar of tense is isolated from the rest of the grammar, and Bob has already redesigned it from scratch twice. Writing it up will take a little longer, but the write-up will not be nearly as difficult as that of negation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MEX - MEX, the grammar of mathematical expressions, is a bigger problem, but is only a small and simple piece of the grammar. When pc was in Washington, we didn&#039;t need more than an hour or two to devise a new approach; it will take only days to see if that new approach works in the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
MEX is a complex problem, but is easy to resolve. With negation and attitudinal indicators, half the battle is understanding the entire complexity of the problem. Once the goals were clear, the design was easy. With MEX, the goals have been understood for a long time; the problem is merely one of design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob has had contact with Ivor Darreg, who proposed a MEX-like code called Numaudo about 30 years ago. Anyone familiar with this effort is encouraged to send comments to us. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;avla - The other remaining design issue is the making of le&#039;avla borrowings from other languages. Unlike the other design problems le&#039;avla grammar and morphology are fully settled. The question is merely one of usage:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can le&#039;avla be made efficiently and intuitively so that language learners have the full power of these words at their disposal? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two conflicting goals expressed in this question. Any efficient and intuitive algorithm for le&#039;avla inherently will cut down on the full potential use of le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, Lojban le&#039;avla should be as much like borrowings found in other languages as possible. Thus, jargon words for foods, technical and scientific terms, etc. would be easily recognized for what they mean. By this rationale, the word for the food &amp;quot;spaghetti&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;spageti&amp;quot;, which is indeed a valid le&#039;avla; the word for &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot; should be the valid &amp;quot;integra&amp;quot;. These words would certainly be easy to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are three problems with this approach:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* natural language borrowings and jargon fail Lojban&#039;s basic paradigm of Lojban is &amp;quot;one word - one concept&amp;quot;. The word &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot; has several jargon meanings - which meaning will Lojban adopt, and how do you choose words for the other jargon meanings. Architectural &#039;integral&#039; has no relation to mathematical &#039;integral&#039;; each field based its word on a different etymological link to the English and earlier Latin concept embedded in the word &#039;integrate&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
* recognition of the word chosen depends on whether the appearance or the sound in emulated. Someone inventing a le&#039;avla &#039;on the fly&#039; in conversation, will not be thinking as much about how it looks on paper, as whether it sounds like the borrowed word. Conversely, a writer will concentrate on visual recognition, often ignoring sound differences.&lt;br /&gt;
* cultural bias. Most borrowing nowadays is from English to other languages, and such borrowing is often at the expense of perfectly good words in the native tongue. Barring adoption of the Yorke-Grebogi proposal below, there is no virtue in making Lojban look like an encoded English, and any massive dependence on borrowing from the one language that all current Lojbanists know will suggest uncontrolled cultural bias (whether it is true or not).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For any &#039;official list&#039; of borrowed vocabulary, Lojban should rely on careful comparison of like words in several languages, and borrow from a single language only when a tanru cannot be made and when there is clear evidence that most other languages have similarly borrowed the word. Otherwise, we would be better to compose a word using a variation of Lojban&#039;s gismu-making algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most le&#039;avla are really names of a sort, applied to specialized concepts as labels to allow them to be easily referred to. There is no semantic breadth to these words and they are unlikely to be used in tanru other than in a most obvious manner, much as one would talk of a Broadway play or a Chrysler car.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, not all le&#039;avla will remain &#039;name-like&#039;. Borrowings have the habit of passing into common usage, ceasing to be jargon, acquiring the full range of connotations that other words have, and being used metaphorically to build other concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To preserve its integrity, Lojban has to keep all le&#039;avla distinct from each other, so that each has only one meaning. Thus, if two fields have claim to the word &amp;quot;integral&amp;quot;, they both can&#039;t use &amp;quot;integra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few years ago, Bob proposed that all le&#039;avla be labelled by some tag that associates the word with a particular jargon. Thus all foods would have a label saying that the word was a food. In short, all le&#039;avla would be invented as a sort of lujvo, a compound of two words or parts of words, one a Lojban categorizer and one a base word having no defined meaning or place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An advantage of Bob&#039;s approach is that, if you are unfamiliar with a jargon word, the label and morphology will at least tell you that it is a jargon word of a particular field. Thus these words are more learnable to a non-specialist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The disadvantage is that if you ARE in the field, the word will no longer resemble the source language word, and will be more difficult to learn for people trained in the specialty that uses the word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ease of learning is important to using the full power of le&#039;avla. However, ease in making new understandable le&#039;avla is also important. In natural language, new words are created as borrowings all the time. Lojbanists need to be able to make new le&#039;avla at will, with ease comparable to the making of lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unlike lujvo and gismu, le&#039;avla have a more amorphous morphology, and ease of making words requires some constraint on those words. A legal le&#039;avla is defined merely as a Lojban word having a consonant cluster in the first 5 letters (which must be a legal initial if at the beginning of the word), only permissible consonant clusters within the word, no occurrences of &#039;y&#039;, a final vowel, and penultimate stress. It also cannot break down into a combination of gismu, lujvo and cmavo either directly, or if preceded by a cmavo. le&#039;avla space is thus primarily defined by what it is not. Testing to see if a word fits the rules is difficult, subject to error, and virtually impossible to perform in your head.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It turns out, though, that if you always have something on the front of the word as a marker of &#039;jargon type&#039;, as proposed by Bob, there is an algorithm (proposed by John Cowan) that makes it as easy to make a le&#039;avla in your head as it is to make a lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words so formed are always good le&#039;avla, and the front part can be any rafsi, which is glued on by a syllabic consonant like &#039;r&#039; that acts like a vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, a side effect is that the rest of the word often cannot stand on its own as a word. This means that all le&#039;avla are forced to be at least one syllable longer (the attached rafsi) than a corresponding natural language source word, and that all jargon words in a field will be prefixed by a common and redundant syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob favors this approach anyway - it encourages tanru and lujvo-making as a preference to borrowing from other languages, which is likely to be heavily biased towards English at least in the early years. Furthermore, the remaining le&#039;avla word space need not remain unused permanently. Some review board can watch for le&#039;avla that become &#039;more than jargon&#039; by coming into common use and being using in tanru. Specialists in a field could also set up boards to approve &#039;unofficial&#039; jargon le&#039;avla that could be flagged as being special to the field without repeating the redundant field affix. (unofficial because someone has to resolve between two fields that try to use the same word).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Official&#039; short le&#039;avla, on the other hand, would become a subclass that is as carefully made and evaluated as gismu. A new learner need not learn these short forms if she/he knows how to reborrow the word anytime it is needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is Bob&#039;s approach adequate? Is the algorithm for building le&#039;avla as easy to use as it needs to be? Are there other approaches to be considered? These are not really design issues, but usage issues that will be determined in future years by the people who learn and use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until then, we need to know what to teach in the textbook. This is not something that Bob should decide on his own. What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grammar - With the expected completion of all substantive grammar changes within the next month or so, we can finally look to baselining the grammar. A decision on this will be (hopefully) made at LogFest 90. As with the gismu list, we expect a &#039;soft&#039; baseline that will last several months, followed by a hard freeze on the grammar, with the intent of holding the grammar constant for 5 years, until fluent speakers can make decisions based on &#039;inside&#039; knowledge of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are risks in baselining - we might freeze a fatal flaw into the language - but these risks are believed small. We&#039;ve now taught 3 classes in Lojban, Bob has written draft lessons covering most basics of the language, and Bob and Athelstan have both done translations of complex and intricate works from other languages. We also have our record as a guideline. Over the last year, the grammar is sufficiently stable that we can still in good conscience sell the draft lesson materials written then. There have been changes, some drastic in overall effect on the language, but most do not affect the beginning speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Writing the textbook may reveal more flaws. Bob believes that any such problems will be minor compared to the past history of the Loglan project, or even the recent history of Lojban. Of the two big redesigns described in this issue, only one even required minimal changes in the grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The parser may reveal a few more problems, as may the random sentence generator. Most of the problems detected by the parser have been minor ones related to elidable terminators that turned out not to be elidable because of the restrictions of YACC grammars (thus an incomplete sentence consisting of bare sumti with no selbri must be followed by &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; to be grammatical). Doug Landauer has proposed a more powerful parser-writing tool which might simplify the grammar and resolve these problems. Following a soft baseline, though, such improvement would have to be either invisible to the average user, or offer a benefit major enough to warrant changing the baseline (and the textbook that will be written based on that baseline).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A final source of changes may come from an analysis in progress by Carl Burke (and possibly to be assisted by David Bowen and others) to convert the YACC grammar into a simpler format called &#039;Extended BNF&#039;. &#039;BNF&#039; grammars are easier to read than YACC grammars, and the process of building them reveals irregularities and asymmetries in the grammar. We&#039;ve already made two extremely minor changes as a result of Carl&#039;s work, both expanding the set of permissible Lojban expressions to include a symmetric equivalent of another structure. The negation analysis discovered a third asymmetry, which we repaired by removing several redundant rules from the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is unlikely that anyone will notice any change to the grammar after the baseline, but our rules require that any such change be announced, explained to all Lojbanists, and approved only after a comment period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major risk to the grammar for some time to come will be the MEX component. The MEX grammar is impossible to test without trying to use it, and there is nobody competent enough in Lojban who could make use of the capabilities of MEX to the degree necessary to test it like we have tested the rest of the grammar. Only time will prove MEX. (Meanwhile, we&#039;ll try to be satisfied with one of our several attempts at grammatically expressing the opening phrase of the Gettysburg Address.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Parser - Key to the final test of the grammar will be completing the parser. Unfortunately, Jeff Taylor, who has written the most comprehensive parser version so far, has indicated that he doesn&#039;t expect to be able to help during the critical phrase right after the preliminary baseline.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are thus looking for people who know something about parsers to help out over the next several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We must identify volunteers who are willing to strongly commit to seeing the project through to completion. The parser project is too vital to suffer problems we&#039;ve had in getting LogFlash ported to other computers. Committed people who know what they are doing, and who can and will stick to it, can implement the current changes in a relatively short time, and can minimize the amount of work needed to maintain the parser if testing shows that further changes are needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some preferred qualifications:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* ability to program in C, and a knowledge of how YACC-based parsers work, so you can understand what Jeff has done; rewriting or translating the existing, and working, code in a different language is not an effective use of time; porting the parser to other computers is a task for when the grammar has been baselined and tested with the first parser;&lt;br /&gt;
* a demonstrated attempt to learn the Lojban grammar, which probably means that you are a level 3 student; most of the problems to be dealt with require a knowledge of why we are implementing a rule, not just what the rule is. The programmer needs to communicate with those who are not familiar with the inside of the parser, like Bob (some level 1 and level 2 people might be able to do this, but we&#039;ll be harder to convince);&lt;br /&gt;
* an MS-DOS computer environment with a C compiler; this is for compatibility with Bob and with our community, which primarily uses PC-compatibles with MS-DOS. We eventually want to have a UNIX version of the parser, but nearly all of the people who will be involved with testing the parser cannot work with a UNIX version.&lt;br /&gt;
* a willingness to work on the parser pretty much to the exclusion of other Lojbanic efforts for a while; this has to be voluntary, but only for a few months of part-time work, until a minimal working parser is produced;&lt;br /&gt;
* there is a preference for a single person or a small co-located team, preferably near Washington DC - this is simply for communications and logistics purposes. Since Jeff lives in California, distance has proven to be a surmountable problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have about 3000 lines of C code, which Jeff says is not especially well commented. The user interface is fairly solid. The primary work is inserting new YACC grammars into the parser, and modifying the hand-coded rules in the lexer to reflect similar changes in the YACC-verified grammar. The basic style is fairly well set, so we need someone who can read Jeff&#039;s code and complete it, not rewrite it. Time required is expected to be less than 100 total hours once you know Jeff&#039;s code, and make any conversions to run the code in your environment. Jeff tried to design the system so that inserting a new grammar would be very fast; and has demonstrated that his concept works several times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What do you get for this? Only our thanks and credit in the final product. Since Jeff did the bulk of the work and has chosen not to retain ownership rights, it would be unfair to offer greater remuneration to anyone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m sure I&#039;ve made this out to be worse than it really is. But there will be a lot of pressure to get the parser completed without constant support from Bob, who will be writing the textbook. Faint souls should not venture forth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any volunteers? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Growth and Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth rate continues at a phenomenal pace, although it has slowed some since the beginning of the year. Actually, growth may be continuing at the same rate, but a few people have responded to the questionnaire in JL10 by dropping out or indicating that they wish to be inactive until the textbook is done. We don&#039;t count these people in our active mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth has been almost entirely in the more active levels. We&#039;ve added another half-dozen level 3 students in the last month, and one of these, John Cowan, has already done his first Lojban writing, a fairly sophisticated translation of a single extremely complex (and weird) English sentence - but more on this next issue when we print it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of our growth has been outside the US. There seems to be a budding class or study group in the Vancouver BC area, led by new Lojbanist Mischa Sandberg. He contacted us as a result of our interview on the CBC Canadian national radio program. Some French-speaking Lojbanists in Canada have started learning the language as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll have to leave details out until things are more definite, but one of these new French-speaking Lojbanists is a well-known science fiction writer, who wants to incorporate Lojban as a major element in an in progress French-language novel about a &#039;logical language&#039;. We&#039;ve offered to assist in incorporating &#039;good Lojban&#039; and inquired whether an English translation might be considered by the publisher (How many of you would buy such a translated novel, merely knowing what we&#039;ve told you?). If the book is published as expected, la lojbangirz. will try to make it available to the community.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most significant has been the increase in membership in the Usenet/Internet computer mail-server, called &#039;lojban-list&#039;, which is approaching 100 people, including those cross-linked from Compuserve. Now all we have to do is get these people talking - the net has been relatively silent. Since Bob has to pay long distance rates to use the net, he can&#039;t lead activity. Thus people need to start talking about their own interests.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our major publicity effort this year independent of the textbook publishing, and any advertising that is associated with that, will be Athelstan&#039;s trip to Europe, which is described under International news below. Bob and Nora are planning a trip to California in late August to early September, but haven&#039;t made specific plans yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Education ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan finished his introductory class in Lojban in early May. Unfortunately, attendance at each session was inconsistent, so not as much was covered as he had intended; however, a good survey of the entire language was completed. Of 10 who signed up, 4 or 5 &#039;completed&#039; the course, in that they have moved past the basic material covered and can continue studying productively on their own using the draft textbook lessons. One of these graduates is moving to the Kansas City area, and we are hoping she will help the several others living in that area when the textbook is finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Tiedemann has gotten the New York City people together, and two classes will be starting there. One will start 20 May, and run every Sunday afternoon (except Memorial Day and LogFest weekends) at his residence in Manhattan (near Columbia U.) for most of the summer; the other will be on Wednesdays in Brooklyn at Marc Glasser and Donna Camp&#039;s residence. We&#039;ll report on progress next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have a potential class in the Vancouver BC area, as mentioned above, and Rory Hinnen has been trying for months to get people together for a Los Angeles area class (if you live in LA, and are interested, his phone number was in le lojbo karni #11, or write to Bob at the la lojbangirz. address and he&#039;ll try to get you in touch with Rory.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan&#039;s Travel Plans - Athelstan is doing detailed planning for his trip to Europe and Israel in August through October. He promises to stay out of the poison ivy this time. (For those not with us last summer, Athelstan contracted an awful case of poison ivy just as he was to leave on a cross country trip. After being bedridden for a full week, keeping his schedule was impossible, and the whole trip was cancelled.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is his approximate route: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He will be in The Hague, Netherlands during the third week of August for the World Science Fiction Convention. He will meet with any Lojbanists who can make it there. After spending a week thereafter sightseeing in the Benelux countries, he plans to cross over into Germany, possibly travelling by bicycle. He will definitely be stopping in Goettingen. By now it is early September. He will then travel on a Eurorail pass south, stopping at several places in Germany, and passing into Austria and/or Switzerland (partly dependent on the Lojbanists in those countries).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will pass from Switzerland going west; he intends to stop in Bessas in southern France to visit Lojbanist John Negus. He will then return eastward into Italy, stopping in the Turin area to give talks with the assistance of Lojbanist Silvia Romanelli. Next he will go south to the boot-heel of Italy and take the Brindisi ferry to Greece, and eventually will continue on to Israel. One of our level 3 (American) students is planning to move to Israel, and will help Athelstan organize and present talks there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this wandering will use up his month of rail travel, leaving him in early October returning by a much more direct route to the Netherlands around mid-October, from which he&#039;ll return to the U.S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another ambitious schedule, but more likely to be completed since he can sleep on the train between stops.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brochures - By the time Athelstan goes overseas, we should have completed the translation of the brochure into French and Italian, and we are trying to arrange translations into Spanish and German (any volunteers to translate or to check someone else&#039;s translation?). We will have pre-shipped supplies to several places along his route so that he doesn&#039;t have to cart them all over Europe, but Athelstan should have copies of most of our publications to show off as he goes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you aren&#039;t on this itinerary, we&#039;ll have to try to catch you next trip, unless you can meet Athelstan somewhere on his route. To do any coordination of this sort, we need to hear from you as soon as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Products and Policy ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo Analyzer - Nora has enhanced the lujvo-making program so that it also takes lujvo apart for you, giving you the source tanru, in addition to putting them together and drilling you on the latter skill. No price increase for the added capability. Nora is also adding a drill on taking lujvo apart, which will be available by LogFest. For those few who have made it to LogFlash 2, the lujvo drills in the program should significantly enhance your memorization rate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
List of Available Papers - My initial search (described last issue) turned up rather fewer items than I had hoped. The following are what I have readily available, with page counts (parenthetical notes indicate the subject of the paper - not always clear from the title).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a few other papers that I have, which I am less sure the authors intend for me to make public. If you have sent me something in the past that you think should be on this list and isn&#039;t, please let me know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are charging 15c/page for these to cover the extra work and Xeroxing charge for these essentially individual orders. Filling these orders will also be on a low priority basis, unless you are doing a volunteer activity requiring the materials for some reason, and these items require payment or existing positive balance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan and Bob LeChevalier: Review of Loglan 1 - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
James F. Carter: The Language Gua\ spi - 18 Nov 1988 (the latest paper we have describing Carter&#039;s tone-based language derived from Loglan - Carter occasionally revises this paper, and we&#039;ll send you the latest we have, though the page count may vary) - 23 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Back to School - P*L*G*S Revisited (&#039;Pretty Little Girls School&#039; and the Ambiguity of tanru) - 14 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Comments on Loglan 1 (1989) - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Comments on MEX as discussed in JL9 - 2 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Consolidated Synopsis of the Categories from Roget&#039;s Thesaurus (a detailed analysis based on 4 different thesaurus versions) - 26 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Doudna: Lojban Predicate Categories (Semantic Categories of Lojban gismu) - 77 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Lojban (two excellent introductory papers that will be the basis for a new Overview for new people when we get time) 23 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Lojban Etymologies (sample gismu etymologies compared to roots in several languages, not just the basic 6 used to create them) - 6 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: On Reconstructing the Common Origin of Modern Languages (the work of Morris Swadesh and others postulating a common language origin, and a poem in Nostratic) - 21 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T. Peter Park: Prehistoric gismu?: Lojban and the Human Proto-Language and The Morris Swadesh &amp;quot;Top 100&amp;quot; in Lojban (compares Lojban words and etymologies with hypothetical proto-language words; 2 papers) - 12 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Raymond: La Tenguar: A romantic Orthography for Lojban (Applying the Tenguar Alphabet of Tolkien to Lojban) - 6 pg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am also expecting some papers from Andy Hilgartner, relating General Semantics, Lojban, and novel theories of logic, sets, and behavior that he and his associates have developed over the last few decades.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Planned Languages File Server - We&#039;ve had a lot of requests for distribution of our materials &#039;on-line&#039; via electronic mail. For reasons we&#039;ll go into in a minute, we have to constrain this somewhat. Meanwhile, we will attempt to make some of our most common items available via computer mail, via a new &#039;Planned Languages file server&#039; service offered by Jerry Altzman and Mark Shoulson.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have network access and haven&#039;t heard of this setup, contact: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
archive-management@ivory.cc.columbia.edu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Compuserve people prefix with &#039;INTERNET:&#039;). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you send a one-line message containing the word &#039;help&#039; only to this address, it will send you help information - or you can ask more specific questions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Items I plan to send to the file server include: - the gismu list&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* the rafsi list&lt;br /&gt;
* the brochure in English and French&lt;br /&gt;
* the Overview&lt;br /&gt;
* the latest machine grammar (after the LogFest reviews)&lt;br /&gt;
* the Saki story translated by Athelstan for JL10, with parser analysis and the JL10 English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If I have time, these files will be on-line by the time you receive this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will listen to requests from people for any other items they wish to see distributed via this service. Decisions will be made on an item-by-item basis. However, we will not be putting up materials until we are reasonably sure of their long-term stability, and some materials like JL and the Synopsis, are too dependent on text formatting for us to readily make ASCII versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no problem with other people putting up their own interpretations and proposals for various aspects of the language (please send us a hard copy for the archive record please), but we would like people not to post copies of our materials and publications on electronic media, at least not without asking us first.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is part of a large and complicated policy problem regarding materials distribution. Our policy that reflects numerous constraints, and it is not one we are necessarily happy with. Because this policy has been recently questioned, we will discuss it at LogFest. Meanwhile, we want to explain what that policy is, and why we feel bound to it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Policy - Here is our distribution policy: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. encourages the free exchange and distribution of information about Lojban. We thus have a copyright policy that encourages distribution &#039;without charge&#039; of most of our materials. The actual design of the language, as opposed to the materials describing it, are considered to be fully in the public domain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can&#039;t, however, extend this policy to draft versions of our to-be-published materials. With this material, we do not want people freely distributing it, without checking with us first (at which point we&#039;ll probably OK it on an individual case basis).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While we would like to include everyone in whatever aspects of the project they choose, we cannot. For any given research and development effort, we have to limit distribution of the various draft proposals to a manageable number of people that we believe will contribute to that effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, since the bulk of the decisions made on any issue require extensive interchange, usually both informal and verbal, most people get their chance to participate only at LogFest. Because it takes place only once a year, we tend to have too many issues &#039;on the table&#039; at LogFest to discuss each of them in detail with everyone. Therefore we have to ask the community to trust its leaders to consider everyone&#039;s viewpoint. After all, we have ultimate accountability to you - if we don&#039;t do a good enough job on the language, you won&#039;t learn and use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why the current policy? Several reasons, notably cost, time, schedule, and our image as a project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cost - It costs money to produce these materials, and this includes basic overhead costs and the R&amp;amp;D costs of producing the first copy of any document, as well as reproduction, postage, and everyday business expenses (for example, we pay state sales tax on Virginia &#039;sales&#039; even when they aren&#039;t paid for, and on all stuff we throw out unsold). Every free copy we give out means that we either need to replace the recipient&#039;s share of our costs with donations, or charge everyone who does pay even more. This is unfair. With our voluntary balance system, we can at least let people know what their share is, and they can decide whether they can afford to contribute their share, and whether they will.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a note on this justification, it does not save us the full cost of a copy to send you something via electronic mail. Even if we use a means of free distribution (as we plan to do for limited purposes as described below), the lower copy volume increases our per copy cost on the rest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As anyone who has sold software under &#039;Shareware&#039; can tell you, only a small fraction of the people who get an on-line Shareware product ever pay for it. Thus only a stable product requiring small support expenditures can be distributed, unless the product becomes extremely widespread, or the suppliers have independent financing. We don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully, this will change after the language is baselined and the books are written. During the time period before then, the survival of the language is dependent on la lojbangirz.&#039;s financial solvency, and we need to ensure this continues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Time - Time affects mostly the special orders policy, and the involvement of people in the decision-making process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To put it simply, I (Bob) have only a limited amount of time and far too much to do if we want to have a textbook and dictionary soon; I already spend as much as half my time on overhead activities and filling orders. If I take extra time to fill special orders, the important work doesn&#039;t get done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If I fill some special orders, I have to fill them all; it would be only fair. Thus, I must avoid filling any, unless the order is justified by a specific project goal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, if you want something that isn&#039;t on the order form, you can ask for it. If there is enough demand, we will consider adding it to our regular offerings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Schedule - People have been waiting for 35 years for the language to be completed. The language is essentially done now. The research questions that occupy so much of our time and paper may seem major, but are really trivial corrections. The changes reflected in the 38-page negation paper, for example, can be summed up two lines of the YACC grammar - all the rest is &#039;teaching material&#039; so that reviewers (and the textbook writer) understand the same interpretation of those two lines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the work on these minor issues require a lot of time, and a fairly deep knowledge of the language. We rely on people, like pc, with an immense historical knowledge of the discussions that have taken place undocumented over the last dozen years or more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New people have a lot to contribute, too, and our pages are studded with names like Michael Helsem, John Cowan, and Albion Zeglin, and John Hodges, who have made contributions to the language by asking the right question at the right time, proposing a simple idea that offers major benefit without causing traumatic language change or relearning, or simply by showing us what the language looks like when someone uses it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These new people are part of an &#039;inner circle&#039; of their own creation, one of participation. There is, however, because of schedule, another &#039;inner circle&#039; that is making the &#039;last minute&#039; decisions about the details of the language. This circle is by no means fixed - it changes from issue to issue, and usually involves the proposer of the change, however new that person is. The core, however, has been pc, Nora, Bob, Athelstan, and for vocabulary issues, Tommy Whitlock. The primary qualification for this level of involvement has been a willingness to allow Lojban to disrupt and dominate the rest of your life activities (pc spent a couple of days reviewing the negation paper during the week of his wedding), but that is the price of getting the language done now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is no intent to exclude others, but we do, and we unfortunately must, as a side effect of trying to get the language done. For every new person we bring into a discussion of any issue, we have to provide that person with the history, and the language design affecting that decision. If the language is ever going to be finished, we have to draw the line fairly strictly. Any new person has to work hard, and gain an understanding of the issues based on their own study, and whatever occasional help we can offer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Draft materials are the results of some one person&#039;s study of a particular research problem, and a given version circulates among the &#039;inner circle&#039; that is associated with that problem. If the problem is critical, or if the results will take too long to complete in the face of high demand, as with the cmavo list, we release this draft to our entire subscriber list to look at, to use, and to comment on. For these drafts, the final quality isn&#039;t there, and stability isn&#039;t promised. Yet, because anything we &#039;publish&#039; smacks of being &#039;official&#039;, our draft publications are treated more seriously than any informal writer&#039;s expressed proposals or opinions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Image - Which brings us to the image problems of stability, veracity, and inclusiveness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A lot of people have invested time in learning previous versions of the language, only to find the language they&#039;d learned was changing like the desert landscape in a windstorm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Project has had a history of uncontrolled change, one that Lojban must live with until we have proved stability. As a result, Bob keeps fairly detailed records of who gets what version of what materials, so that updates can be provided on request. (This is the mysterious difference between &#039;level 1&#039; and &#039;level 2&#039;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because of the aura of &#039;official-ness&#039; that attaches to our publications, and because we are writing material intended to look authoritative when approved, you cannot always tell that a draft is incomplete or unapproved. Because so much of our work is paper hard-copy oriented, we don&#039;t have a system in place to reliably inform people of the current status of any particular document they get access to. It is thus likely that someone getting a copy of draft material other than from us will be working with outdated information. If someone invests time in learning from our materials, and then finds the stuff is obsolete, they get upset - with us - for misleading them. They also get the wrong impression that language change is not under control enough for them to bother learning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if we had a good system for marking drafts, we still have to exercise some care. It can be argued that people who get well-marked drafts and study from them, do so at their own risk. But it is the language effort as a whole that is at risk. If these people ignore the warnings, but then feel misled anyway, they leave; hundreds of people have done so with prior versions of the language. The language was virtually dead in 1986-7 (less than a half-dozen people were still actively working on the language) when the effort that became la lojbangirz. got started.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of Lojbanists have little interest in the language development project, other than to know that their concerns are listened to. They want a language, complete and ready-to-learn. That is la lojbangirz.&#039;s primary priority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the language baseline, there will be a 5-or-more-year period of little or no change, rigidly controlled. By being slow and rigidly controlled, we can then involve everyone, though practically speaking, while a newcomer might find a problem, only someone who has learned the lan-guage will be able to devise a credible solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will probably be as many or more proposals for change as there are now, but the people who learn the language will know that the proposals are just debate. After the five-year period, they will be the ones to select which if any changes to accept. The language will no longer be imposed on people from outside &#039;experts&#039;, but will be a living language responding to its own internal life. The freeze on the language will not end until the speakers of the language have enough self-confidence (and inertia) that they keep control over the rate of change they will permit (which will probably be as low as any other &#039;stable&#039; language). This is the way it must be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, addressing one of the original issues that led to this discussion, we cannot orient the Lojban effort around the computer communications network. To do so would be to practice an exclusion of non-computer people that we cannot afford.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Too many of our most committed and productive workers have no access to the computer networks, and about half the community has no particular access to computers at all. Many of these people have complained about an apparent bias towards people with computers and computer knowledge. This is partly due to Bob&#039;s bad habits of accidentally using computer jargon throughout his writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can encourage &#039;on-line interchange&#039;, and have done so. I&#039;m spending far more time supporting &#039;lojban-list&#039; then I intended to. But, we cannot afford to even appear to exclude people who don&#039;t have computers. In fact, we have to try especially hard to include people without computers, to make sure that they can participate to the same degree as everyone else. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News About the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Readers have indicated that they want me to avoid commentary in this section, on the assumption that everyone who cares already knows about the political and intellectual property disputes between la lojbangirz. and the Loglan Institute. Anybody who doesn&#039;t know what&#039;s going on, and cares, can write to la lojbangirz. for explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New Lognet Published - Jim Brown (JCB) put out another Lognet around the beginning of April. He reports about 300 copies of Loglan 1 sold, and about a dozen new members for the Institute. He also reports that the Institute is still losing money even at that sales level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB also reported that he and his wife visited some Arizona universities and an anthropology oriented science fiction convention. JCB gave several talks on Loglan, and reported being encouraged by how easily people seem to learn pieces of the language. He also met with an unnamed colleague to work on a paper about Loglan which he plans to use as a delayed answer to Arnold Zwicky, who strongly criticized linguistic aspects of Loglan in the late 1960&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several technical proposals for changing the Institute version of Loglan were discussed. Most of the proposals either are not applicable to the Lojban version, or have been incorporated already in our design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are apparently several proposals under consideration for resolving two of the flaws in Institute Loglan that Athelstan and Bob specifically identified in their review of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One reader argued against a proposal from the December issue (discussed in JL11), that would divide up Institute Loglan gismu into &#039;nouns&#039;, &#039;verbs&#039; and &#039;adjectives&#039; of several types, and given each group a peculiar series of inflections based on varying the final vowel. The argument against the proposal seems to have convinced JCB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interestingly, a new paper in the journal of the New York Academy of Sciences reports that linguists investigating proto-languages are hypothesizing that the earliest language had only one vowel, and that multiple vowels appeared in language to distinguish between related meanings - these differing meanings then became &#039;nouns&#039;, &#039;verbs&#039;, and &#039;adjectives&#039;, and then all the varying declensions of each. Thus the Institute may be repeating ancient history.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex May Resigns - Rex May has resigned as &#039;editor&#039; of Lognet. He had held this position for the last two issues, although JCB did the production. Rex indicates that JCB made editorial decisions without consulting with Rex, and specifically refused to print an article Rex had written proposing a different morphology for Loglan words. Rex plans to submit it for publication in Ju&#039;i Lobypli after rewriting it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The resignation was due partly because of editorial disputes with JCB, and partly because of the dispute between la lojbangirz. and JCB. Rex printed a statement in the recent issue of Lognet that was critical of la lojbangirz. for not clearly demonstrating to him why we feel that JCB had made Loglan public domain. He has indicated that this statement was printed in order to stir a response from the community. Only two people responded, but the answers were sufficient to provoke Rex&#039;s resignation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex has given us the following comment for publication: &amp;quot;I have decided that the &#039;ownership&#039; of the Loglan language is at best equivocal. As editor I feared I was taking sides. I don&#039;t want to take sides on something I can&#039;t figure out.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rex also wrote a review of Loglan 1 for Liberty magazine (March 1990), a libertarian publication. The review was very positive, although it concentrated more on the positive aspects of Loglan than those of the book. A rebuttal letter that severely criticizes Rex&#039;s review appeared in the May issue. The comments seem to be aimed at Loglan in general, although the comments are based in response to Rex&#039;s statements. The criticisms of the language are flawed, and appeared to be based on the writer&#039;s negative attitudes toward what Rex had written, rather than on any independent knowledge of the language. Thus, more than anything else, the exchange seems to have demonstrated the difficulty in writing very short articles about Loglan/Lojban for a broad audience; if specifics are given out of context, inevitably a few readers will incorrectly generalize or otherwise misinterpret what has been presented. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
la lojbangirz. is considering a response to the Liberty exchange, especially since Lojban was not mentioned. Unfortunately though, the misinformed criticisms seem to have dampened Rex&#039;s enthusiasm for the language, if not others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan has noticed that people seem intimidated by the concept of predicates and by the apparent amount of work required to memorize place structures. Athelstan here explains what a predicate is, and shows that learning place structures is familiar and natural to every English speaker.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Brief Introduction to Predicates and Place Structures ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A predicate in Lojban - or in logic - is a relationship between one or more arguments. For example, if John is Sam&#039;s uncle, then we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu rirbu&#039;a la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If John hits Sam, we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu darxi la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If John is taller than Sam, we say: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu sraclamau la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the English sentences vary in appearance and grammatical structure, the Lojban sentences are similar to each other. The type of relationship varied from state (English noun) to active (English verb) to characteristic (English adjective), but it remained that all three were relationships between John and Sam, so Lojban treated them all the same grammatically; this is the heart and soul of Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each relationship has characteristic arguments or roles associated with it. Uncle has the &amp;quot;uncle&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;nephew&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;niece&amp;quot;. Giving has the &amp;quot;giver&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;recipient&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;gift&amp;quot;. Reading has the &amp;quot;reader&amp;quot;, the &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;document&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;medium of recording&amp;quot; (e.g. book, headstone, CRT screen).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In English most verbs have a rigid place for each of these arguments. For example (leaving off the last place): &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
John reads the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
The sentence reads John.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mean two entirely different things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sam gives John the book.&lt;br /&gt;
John gives Sam the book.&lt;br /&gt;
John gives the book Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
The book gives John Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
are all different, and the change in meaning is directly related to the change in position.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban predicates also have specific places for specific arguments. This place structure is denoted explicitly in the definition, unlike natural language place structures which are learned subtly as implicit usage of the word. In Lojban, for example, the place structure of tcidu (read) is: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A reads B from medium C.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The place structure includes the reader, the text, and the medium being read from. So: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu tcidu le jufra&lt;br /&gt;
John reads the sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
le jufra cu tcidu la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
The sentence reads John.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
are as different in Lojban as they are in English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban &amp;quot;dunda&amp;quot; has the place structure:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A gives B to C.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which has the giver, the gift and the recipient.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la sem. cu dunda le cukta la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu dunda le cukta la sem.&lt;br /&gt;
la djan. cu dunda la sem. le cukta&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
le cukta cu dunda la sem. la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
go through the same convolutions in meaning that their English counterparts do.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So place structures are not foreign to English speakers. We use them; we just don&#039;t think about them or talk about them. They also move in funny and subtle ways in natural languages, and we learn by example how to manipulate them. Lojban makes them regular and explicit and it&#039;s easy to manipulate them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proposals to be Decided at LogFest ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The two papers separately attached are intended for comment, discussion, and (hopefully) approval at LogFest 90. They were written by Bob, and have passed a stiff review by Nora, Athelstan, and pc. If you cannot attend, feel free to send in your comments anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The negation paper probably contains about the equivalent of 1 1/2 draft textbook lessons worth of technical information, and the attitudinal paper another lesson&#039;s worth, thus providing level 3 students with significantly more study material on the language. They are bound separately so that students can bind them together with textbook lessons in they wish. The attitudinal word list is bound separately from the paper, for the benefit of those who bind their various word lists together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are also several minor proposals which will be discussed. Some of these are included in the following pages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn&#039;t clear how well detailed technical topics can be discussed at a meeting like LogFest, where attendees backgrounds and interests are widely disparate, so the amount of group discussion time given to each will be determined by how many are interested, and how much chance they have had to review the proposal. Objections to any proposal will be noted, of course, and small side discussions will take place as we have time, to resolve these. LogFest decisions are usually made by consensus, occasionally by direct vote; all proposals not relegated for specific further study will be decided one way or the other, though - in previous years this has meant wrap-up discussions on Monday, or even Tuesday.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for specific proposals. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu Baseline Changes - New gismu are required by our baseline rules to be discussed and approved. They are supposed to be analyzed in the 6 languages and &#039;made&#039; before the proposal is decided, but we do not currently have an Arabic dictionary reader available (any volunteers?). This is relatively unimportant; rules also stipulate that words to be added will be &#039;coined&#039; from unfilled space when the invented word causes a conflict, since we don&#039;t want to change the baseline word set unless absolutely necessary. Change proposals are numbered for clear reference.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# A major reason for adding or changing a word is the desire to give the concept a rafsi. This is the reason for last issue&#039;s proposal to change &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;. There are no other outstanding proposals to change words.&lt;br /&gt;
# Last year&#039;s LogFest decided that the concept &amp;quot;text&amp;quot; probably did not need to be a gismu, but no general solution was found expressing the concept. Recently, Athelstan recognized that nearly all meanings of the word &amp;quot;text&amp;quot; can be covered by &amp;quot;se tcidu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;selci&#039;u&amp;quot; = &#039;x1 is read-by/readable by ...&#039;, with the added tanru qualifier &amp;quot;lerfu se tcidu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;lefselci&#039;u&amp;quot;) to be absolutely clear, if &amp;quot;tcidu&amp;quot; comes to have broader meanings than just the reading of text. Chinese ideograms probably are included in these definitions for &amp;quot;text&amp;quot;, since they are &amp;quot;read&amp;quot; and they are &amp;quot;lerfu&amp;quot; of a sort. This finding, if agreed upon, will remove this proposal from the table.&lt;br /&gt;
# Bob wants to revisit the issue of whether we need a gismu to separately indicate &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; in the sense of &amp;quot;daylight&amp;quot;. The current meaning of &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; is the time interval of &#039;24 hours&#039;; the separate term was omitted in the original gismu effort because nearly all languages use the same word for both concepts, although most languages recognize that the meanings are distinct. The concept &#039;daylight&#039; can be represented clearly as the tanru &amp;quot;sun-above&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;sun-high&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;solga&#039;u&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;solgau&amp;quot;), but Bob believes that there will come to be many concepts built from the concept &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;, enough that it should have a rafsi. Otherwise those compounds will be 3-part lujvo at minimum, and probably much longer. Bob notes that we have gismu currently for &amp;quot;evening&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;night&amp;quot;, all of the same semantic group as &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot;. (There is also a question as to how to create culturally neutral definitions of these terms - for example, the word for &amp;quot;morning&amp;quot; describes a different time-range in Sweden and Germany than it does in the U.S.. This will also be discussed at LogFest.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To avoid confusion between meanings, and possibly bad tanru as a result, Bob also proposes changing the keyword for &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;diurnal&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;diurne&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An argument against a word for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; is that the same words are used for both meanings of &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; in all of our languages. Thus the algorithm will spit out &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; as the preferred form. But there are lower score forms on the list, possibly similar to &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot;. Bob notes that &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; currently has 3 rafsi, and if the word for &amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; was close enough, one of these could be transferred to the new word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.-5. Bob proposes that &amp;quot;dawn&amp;quot; and possibly &amp;quot;twilight&amp;quot; (the evening equivalent of dawn) be considered based on similar analogy, noting that these are primitive concepts in many cultures. At the very least, we need good lujvo for each.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. A similar situation to the &amp;quot;diurne&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;daytime&amp;quot; pair exists for &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;. With the exception of English, the same words are used for both of these concepts. Tommy Whitlock thus argued successfully for not including &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot; in our original gismu list. The corresponding was not true for &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot;, these were distinguished in the source languages (as shown by the widely differing words &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a result of the negation analysis, these concepts have again surfaced for discussion. A few concepts are being proposed for gismu as a result of that analysis, on the basis that the concepts are not well represented as negatives of their perceived &#039;opposite&#039; in English, or that there is significant difficulty with assigning one to be &#039;positive&#039; and the other &#039;negative&#039;. In each of these cases, with the exception of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;/&amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;, languages generally have words of different roots for each of the opposing pairs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two related arguments for adding &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot;. One is based on place structures. The place structure for &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot; are parallel: &amp;quot;x1 is good/bad for x2 by standard x3&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot;, on the other hand, has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is evil by standard x2&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; is an absolute concept in that it doesn&#039;t depend on who it affects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, while the opposite of &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;bad&amp;quot; and vice versa, the opposite of &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;; this will confuse people who don&#039;t carefully read place structures, and lead to the same murky semantics that exists in the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tommy Whitlock has argued for eliminating &amp;quot;palci&amp;quot; and making both &amp;quot;virtue&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; as tanru: &amp;quot;marde xamgu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;madyxau&amp;quot;) and &amp;quot;marde xlali&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;madyxla&amp;quot;). Bob feels that the place structure argument shows that this will only weaken the distinctive relativity of the concepts &amp;quot;xlali&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot;, wherein a single event can be good for one person and bad for another, even by the same standard. It is easy to imagine philosophical and theological arguments where the place structure distinction is vital, and distinctive place structures are the core of Lojban&#039;s identity as a predicate language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are uncountable other examples where place structure arguments could be used to justify adding a gismu, but the dependence of entire fields of thought on the distinctions implicit in these particular place structures suggest that this is one case where a change is justified.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Another proposal based on the example of other languages is &amp;quot;tears&amp;quot;, referring to droplets expelled in weeping. The concept has apparently been traced back to proto-language times. Lojban has gismu for &amp;quot;weep&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;drop&amp;quot; and for &amp;quot;liquid&amp;quot;. Thus all needed aspects can be expressed as lujvo. In English, of course, we have numerous connotations of tears, and a particular shape called &#039;teardrop&#039;; it is unlikely that these connotations are universal, and tears are no more likely to take the shape named after them than any other kind of droplet on a surface. Thus we cannot claim any particular use in lujvo as a justification. The only solid argument is historico-linguistic. Is this sufficient?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8.-11. Four other &#039;opposites&#039; are proposed based on the negation analysis. These are &amp;quot;ugly&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;diffuse&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;dense&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;decrease&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;increase&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;deficient&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;sufficient&amp;quot;. These, of all scalar negatives, seem especially common concepts in natural languages that justify gismu assignment. The first two are further justified by having separate roots in most languages. The second pair is further justified by analogy with &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;, as the &#039;less than&#039; equivalent of their opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12.-16. Lojban has assigned gismu to the major grains and staples of the world, and especially those of the 6 source languages. Various animals, plants, metals, and substances common enough in various cultures to have been assigned connotations and/or to be heavily used in metaphor in their languages have also been assigned gismu (in Lojban, cultural, as opposed to functional, connotations should not be referenced in tanru, unless figurative speech is explicitly marked - and even there should be avoided except in poetic usage).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, it has been pointed out over the last 2 years that three major staples not commonly referenced in English were omitted from the list. These are &amp;quot;buckwheat&amp;quot; which is historically and culturally the staple grain of Russia (one of our &#039;Big 6&#039;), &amp;quot;sorghum&amp;quot; the staple grain for most of Africa used as animal feed in the U.S., and &amp;quot;cassava&amp;quot; which is the major staple of South America and part of Africa, and the third most planted crop after rice and wheat in the world, most familiar to Americans as the source of tapioca.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Considering the importance of staple foods to human life, and their use as ingredients in a wide variety of foods, Bob believes that these omissions should be remedied.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two other grains have been mentioned, but are not as strongly recommended for gismu. A weaker case exists for &amp;quot;triticale&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;alfalfa&amp;quot;, which are not major grains in any culture. But these should be considered for completeness of the set. In addition, readers familiar with other cultures should propose any other basic foods that are widely used outside the U.S. but are not well-known to Americans. Because most early Lojbanists are English-native Americans, Lojban&#039;s image of cultural neutrality requires that we &#039;bend over backwards&#039; to avoid favoring concepts that are familiar to Americans while omitting correspondingly important concepts with which we are unfamiliar. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From John Hodges, on Readability - In a phone conversation with Bob, I said that I had noticed that JCB&#039;s Loglan looked a lot more like English text than Lojban did. JCB has periods at the ends of sentences, and capital letters at the beginnings, and so forth. I felt the appearance of Lojban was unaesthetic, and was casting around for possible changes to improve it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More generally, the issue is &#039;readability&#039;. I have some further thoughts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would like to retract the suggestion I made on the phone. I suggested switching the functions of the period and comma, because &amp;quot;it is less jarring to encounter a comma in the middle of a sentence&amp;quot;. Looking over the text in JL10, I think it would be even more jarring to see a comma at the beginning of a sentence. Periods are visually neater than commas; we can get used to them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also suggested capitalizing the first letter of certain &#039;punctuation cmavo&#039;. In the &amp;quot;Guidelines for Understanding Unfamiliar Lojban Text&amp;quot; on page 6, you start with &amp;quot;Put brackets around each sentence in the text.&amp;quot; Capitalizing &amp;quot;.I&amp;quot; would do the same thing - though just putting two spaces before the &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot; would probably do just as well. By the same logic, we might capitalize the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Ni&#039;o&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Lu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Li&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Zo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;To&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Toi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Sei&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Se&#039;u&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Mo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Ma&amp;quot;, and any word following &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;doi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anything in lexeme COI might optionally be capitalized as well. Punctuation exists to help the eye break up the text into meaningful units. I am suggesting that if punctuation may optionally be capitalized, just as &#039;r&#039;s may optionally be trilled, it would improve readability without seriously affecting audiovisual isomorphism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosed is a bit of text from JL10, before and after ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: First a bit of history. I used to capitalize the &#039;I&#039; at the beginning of a sentence before the period was put in. Nora pointed out, though, that the sans-serif typeface used in The Loglanist rendered capital &#039;I&#039; and small &#039;l&#039; indistinguishable, and that this had occasionally caused problems in understanding.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, when work on Lojban got started, the visual pause (period) was proposed, along with the use of capitalization to indicate abnormal stress. The period is found at the beginning of every sentence. I also use a double space between sentences as a convention, though in our current compressed typeface, this may not be obvious. For a long time, periods were seldom found anywhere else, though as Lojban use has gotten more sophisticated, the periods have been multiplying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to admit a preference for non-capitalization, since it means I seldom have to use the shift key when typing - hence fewer typos and inconsistencies. Typing Lojban text is not easy, because of its unfamiliarity, and I am especially worried about Lojban typos, other errors, and inconsistencies, appearing in the stuff I produce, since people depend on me for &#039;good&#039; examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t, however, see any major problem, other than my own fumble-fingers and troublesome typefaces, with capitals on most of the cmavo proposed. There is the aesthetic consideration of having capitalization mean stress in some cases, and not in others; I find consistency more aesthetically appealing than a resemblance to English text. (Note that German capitalizes all nouns, both proper and improper, without confusion, and American writers do not capitalize after a colon or semicolon; capitalization is clearly not necessary to recognize sentence structure.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For names, capitalization would be ambiguous, and lead to people with vowel initial names having stress on that first vowel. Thus a certain former US President would be pronounced /AH,yee,zehn,khau,r./ if written &amp;quot;Aizenxau,r.&amp;quot; instead of /AI,zehn,khau,r./, resulting from &amp;quot;AIzenxau,r.&amp;quot; And sometimes the default would not be capitalized at all, when penultimate stress were desired, as in some pronunciations of the English &amp;quot;Alicia&amp;quot; (Lojban &amp;quot;.alicas.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As another historical note, there have been several times in Loglan history when people have proposed using punctuation marks as a substitute for cmavo, justified by &#039;readability&#039;. Thus JCB favors French quotation marks for his equivalent of &amp;quot;lu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;li&#039;u&amp;quot; (French quotations, &amp;lt;&amp;lt; and &amp;gt;&amp;gt;, unlike English quotes &amp;quot; are directional, as required for the two separate words). The list of proposals got quite long, and thus complex, though no clear approval was given to any of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am opposed to such substitution, in that I think many people would have trouble learning to speak punctuation marks as words if they aren&#039;t made explicit. Forgetting the verbal punctuation, of course, leads to ambiguity. (We do allow symbols instead of words in MEX constructs, including periods, commas, and colons, as well as numerals. But in MEX, ALL of the words are replaced by symbols, not just some.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having stated this, as an alternative to John&#039;s proposal, I would suggest using the punctuation marks in addition to the words to enhance readability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specifically:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; would use individual and paired quotes, respectively: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;zo &amp;quot;mi &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;zoi .kuot.&amp;quot; non-Lojban text &amp;quot;.kuot. &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(Athelstan devised the &#039;name&#039; .kuot. as an obvious mnemonic for delimited quotes. Any single Lojban word can be used as the delimiter.) &lt;br /&gt;
* regular quotation would use French quote marks: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu .... li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
* parenthesis of various types would use the parenthesis marks: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(sei...) if the &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; is elided or &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(sei...se&#039;u) if it isn&#039;t (to...toi) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;etc. &lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;ma&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mo&amp;quot; and other question words would be marked with a question mark, which I would prefer before the word to help remind English speakers that Lojban differs from English in not requiring a rising tone of voice to express a question, and to make it less likely that an unnatural &#039;end-of-sentence&#039; pause will be inserted:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;?ma&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;?mo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;?pei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;?xu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because I&#039;ve previously used a single question mark before a construct to indicate questionable grammaticality, I would have to change that convention (probably to a double question mark), but would prefer that to the question mark at the end of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As an alternative for beginning of sentence or paragraph, how about something totally new to mark these (making the period unnecessary - remember that all periods are optional in Lojban, being that they can be inferred from the morphology rules.) A hyphen or equal sign would be distinctive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever the conventions, they should be optional, and a reader&#039;s understanding should not be reduced for not knowing them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having presented an alternative, let us look at some current text, John&#039;s alternative, and the one I&#039;ve just proposed. I&#039;m using a different text than John supplied, one from Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki which uses more varied features:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Current style:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi .i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John&#039;s proposal:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e bacru Lu la Selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi .I ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la Selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la Ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga Lu doi Brtis. mu&#039;i Ma do plipe Li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .I Sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko Li&#039;u &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s alternative:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=i fo&#039;e bacru &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi =i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a =i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gackosta noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u =i (sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei) so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other alternatives are possible. What do our readers think? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jamie Bechtel raises an issue on conventions and terminology which may be related to the above: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How do you hyphenate in Lojban if the hyphen is used to show a buffer vowel? Can you use capitalization to indicate that a word has been cut in half? For example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
...selji-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tro ... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
would be written:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
...selJI-&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/preL&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
tro ... &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: I&#039;m hoping there is no terminology problem here, so let me be sure, and remind readers as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hyphen - in Lojban, the letter &#039;y&#039;, or the vocalic &#039;r&#039; or &#039;n&#039; between rafsi used to solve junction problems in lujvo-making caused either by impermissible consonant clusters, or a possibility of the lujvo breaking up into two smaller words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also a &#039;hyphen symbol&#039;: &amp;quot;-&amp;quot;. This has no formal purpose in Lojban, though I may have suggested it as a possible way to explicitly show pronunciation of a &#039;buffering sound&#039; between consonants that a speaker has trouble pronouncing together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Buffer&#039; is used for the &#039;consonantal buffer&#039;, represented by the apostrophe, and for the buffering sound between consonants just mentioned. The latter sound has no letteral representation in Lojban, since it is by definition &amp;quot;some vowel sound not otherwise found in Lojban&amp;quot; (usually for English speakers the sound of &#039;i&#039; in English &amp;quot;bit&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is my belief that visual representation of buffers should be rare, and a word in which they are explicitly used should never be split across lines (I currently try to avoid hyphenating Lojban words at all, because no one reads the language well enough to easily put &amp;quot;seljitro&amp;quot; back together if it is split over two lines.) This would resolve the problem Jamie points out. As for explicitly marking the stress in such a split word - this is already legal in any word, although only in marking abnormal stress in names has it been found useful enough to justify the jarring appearance of capital letters in the middle of a word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for hyphenation at the end of lines, another alternative is the use of underscore. I recently received a letter from Italy (in English, but presumably using Italian conventions), where underscore was used for &#039;hyphenation&#039;, and there was no particular attempt to break words at syllable boundaries. Whether this is desirable for Lojban or not, clearly the English model is not universal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Hodges on Lojban representation of Time of Day: [This discussion is based on material in draft lesson 3 on telling times and dates, and may not be too understandable if you haven&#039;t read that lesson. John first wrote it last summer while the Blacksburg class was conducted, and recently updated it for LogFest consideration. Karen Stein also contributed to this proposal, and wrote on slightly different aspects, but John summarizes the issues well enough to enable people to prepare for LogFest discussions.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Re. telling time: Your &amp;quot;modified base-12&amp;quot; system was not popular [with the Blacksburg class]. One problem is that it is not truly base 12, since it contains &amp;quot;gai&amp;quot;, which is the digit for &amp;quot;12&amp;quot; in a base larger than 12. &amp;quot;12&amp;quot; in base 12 would be &amp;quot;li pano&amp;quot;. Your names for the hours go from &amp;quot;la gaicac.&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;la papacac.&amp;quot; without any &amp;quot;la panocac.&amp;quot; When we hear &amp;quot;la pacicac.&amp;quot; how are we to know what base it is in? On the face of it, it could be any base larger than 3. Given the global use of base-10, even for the numbers of 12-and-24-hour clocks, I think it would be better to go with the crowd on this one. Long Live La Recicac. (la daucac. lir. and la gaicac. lec. and their kin are OK but I think are likely to be used only on flowery and formal occasions, the ones where we use Roman numerals today.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Based on this argument, it is clear that a base-12 clock system should go from 0 to B (B is the base 12 digit for &#039;1110&#039;), and not from 1 to C as proposed in the draft lesson. The 24-hour clock system should go either from 0 to 23, or from 00 to 1B, base-12, which I strongly prefer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem of knowing what base it is exists in English as well, but the difference between 12-hour and 24-hour clocks goes unnoticed, since people generally use the time form that others expect. You also have to know what time zone is referenced. I sure have been confused at times when someone has responded to &amp;quot;What time is it?&amp;quot; in Greenwich time. The answer is convention. If people use one standard all the time they won&#039;t get confused. When they don&#039;t use one standard, you need to flag base and time zone, just as we flag them in English. (Whenever I call someone in another time zone and leave a message on their recorder as to what time I called, I state &#039;your time&#039; to indicate the time zone. Otherwise the time I give would be ambiguous.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for &#039;going with the crowd&#039;, which way does the crowd go?. Remember that in English we effectively use a base-12 system for numbers verbally - we say &amp;quot;twelve o&#039;clock&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;one-two o&#039;clock&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;twoteen o&#039;clock&amp;quot; (this may not always be true for 24-hour clock users, who sometimes say &amp;quot;one-two-hundred&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;12 noon&amp;quot;, which is clearly wrong). Only in numerical form do we use base-10 numbers, and then you can&#039;t do base-10 arithmetic with them. If we drop base-10 completely, as per the preferred form in the draft textbook, there is no confusion as you&#039;ve indicated, arithmetic is straightforward, and there is no effective difference between the 12-hour clock and the 24-hour clock. If this is &#039;bucking the flow&#039;, it is only being simple and logical, as with the rest of the language. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Re. telling the date: The system you present on page 3-19 seems to break down because months typically begin in the middle of a week. What do you do with the fractional week at the beginning? Is it the first week of the month? e.g. 1 August 1989 is a Tuesday; is it the first day of the first week of the month? You give an example 2:2:9:5:1989, &amp;quot;the 2nd day (Monday) of the 2nd week, (which is the 9th), of the 5th month (May) of 1989&amp;quot;. If you look, 9 May 1989 was a Tuesday. (It could be worse. 1 July 1989 was a Saturday. How do people count &amp;quot;weeks of the month&amp;quot; nowadays anyway? When a &amp;quot;month&amp;quot; was the time between one New Moon and the next, it was easy; see which quarter the moon was in. It might give you some 8-day weeks, but what the hey.) I believe people say &amp;quot;the third Tuesday&amp;quot; rather then &amp;quot;Tuesday of the third week.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest not attempting to count &amp;quot;weeks of the month&amp;quot; at all. 3:9:5:1989, a set of four numbers, is easier to hear than a set of five. (Karen said five was too long a string.) 3:9:5 and 9:5:1989 would usually be understood. Sets of two still leave you guessing between day-of-week/day-of-month and day-of-month/month. A bare set of two numbers could also be a time of day. You mention this problem on page 3-15 and offer possible approaches but set no standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HEY, I&#039;VE GOT IT! Declare a convention that: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:2 digits is a time &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;08:56 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 digit:2 digits is a Day-of-week/Day-of-month&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;4:06 =Wednesday the Sixth (default assumption) &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;This may be overridden if the two digits are obviously a year &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;5:89 =May, 1989 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:1 digit is Day-of-month/Month, using d,f,g for dau, fei, gai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;05:9 =Fifth of September 1 digit:2 digits:1 digit is Day-of-week/Day-of Month/Month 7:03:f =Saturday the Third of November&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 digits:1 digit:2 digits (4 digits optional) is Day-of-Month/Month/Year&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;02:2:92 =Ground Hog&#039;s Day, 1992&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;08:56:3:09:5:89 =Eight-fifty-six A.M. Tuesday the 9th of May, 1989&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3 digits:2 or 4 digits is day-of-year/year &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;001:95 =New Year&#039;s Day 1995&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
08:56:3:129:89&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Clear enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Yes, weeks of months normal include partial weeks. We don&#039;t often express such dates in numerical form, as is possible in Lojban, but we do count and use them. Anyone who ever has meetings on the &#039;4th Tuesday of every month&#039; knows to count all Tuesdays, and the week of month convention was added to deal with such problems. I will agree that the existing proposal is cumbersome and confusing, though. I don&#039;t like some aspects of John&#039;s specific proposal, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* After the year 2000, it will not be clear for many years whether two digits are a year, a month, or a day, so this convention is doomed during our most critical growth period. I think we should break with English a decade early.&lt;br /&gt;
* Most speakers will dislike leading zeroes - this is &#039;bucking the system&#039; as much as my base 12 proposal, only more complex, because there are a lot of patterns to remember. Unlike with time, a given person will have uses for all of these forms at some time, and cannot limit himself/herself to just one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will suggest a skeleton counter-proposal for consideration. Come up with a canonical form, leaving out the week-of-month element.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Try: Day-of-Week:Day-of-Month:Month:Year&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If less than 4 terms are given, the stated ones are the leftmost of this set. You can omit one of the early terms leaving the colon &amp;quot;pi&#039;e&amp;quot;. The behind. Special cases of week-of-month and day-of-year would be inserted at any logical place when desired, but must be marked with a lerfu &amp;quot;jy.&amp;quot; for weekday (jeftu djedi) or &amp;quot;ny.&amp;quot; for day-of-year (nanca). If we use &amp;quot;ny.&amp;quot;, it should replace both the day-of-month and month fields in the canonical form, since it is month independence that is the intent of the usage; this prevents us from having to express two useless colons every time. I&#039;ll also add &amp;quot;dy.&amp;quot; to stand for an arbitrary non-year-based Julian Day (by whatever convention - like time zones, you need to know the convention in use to interpret the date. Astronomers use one standard, and various businesses and military projects each use their own separate one; the lerfu stands either for &amp;quot;djedi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;djulien.&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Postscript 4/27/1990... looking at this nine months later, I would support giving names to the days of the week, so that they can be abbreviated with letters instead of digits. Padjed. redjed. cidjed. vodjed. mudjed. xadjed. zedjed.... so the long string of digits above is broken by a lerfu in the middle, e.g., &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16:37:x:27:4:90 4:37 P.M. Friday 27 April 1990 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This would be easier to read than a string of six digits, and would reduce confusion over which digit meant what. Bob: This would be grammatical - you can have a bare lerfu in a numeral position, but would be difficult to use. Remember that in even a moderately noisy environment, lerfu are nearly indistinguishable, so we can&#039;t use them too heavily in verbal communications (their main purpose is for spelling, which is slow and enunciated, and for numerical variables, which tends to be few in number or are subscripted - John Cowan has noted the need for long-name forms of the ALPHA-BRAVO-CHARLIE genre for noisy environments, and names couldn&#039;t be used inside of a numeral string.) Requiring a difficult to distinguish day-of-week letter every time you want to state the day-of-week seems to be asking for resolution difficulties. I still prefer my null:dayofmonth... idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you want to use time/date combinations, you need to label the final position of the time, or you can&#039;t tell whether it is minutes, seconds, etc. You could use &amp;quot;t.&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;tcika&amp;quot;. I think combined date/times will be used only in specialized circumstances, just like the other two conventions I&#039;ve proposed that require lerfu, and thus won&#039;t cause confusion. The four lerfu I&#039;ve proposed are probably close to a maximally diverse phonetic set, which is convenient for the noisy environment problem, though I think varying position of the lerfu-label within the various colons will provide redundancy for noisy environment resolution. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Lojban as a Language Template ===&lt;br /&gt;
by James A. Yorke and Celso Grebogi &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Abstract: We propose creating a series of languages using Lojban as a template. These &amp;quot;image&amp;quot; languages would be identical to Lojban except that the predicate words would be adapted so as to be based on the language of the target population. For each and every predicate in Lojban there would be exactly one predicate in the image language, and it would have exactly the same meaning as in Lojban. These &amp;quot;image languages&amp;quot; would be trivially translated into each other trivially by substitution. Continued work on Lojban would of course be critical since Loglan is the template. No development work would be carried out for the image languages. All official changes in Lojban would by implication be immediately adapted to the derivative languages. The advantages would be to minimize memory of those parts of the language which do not carry structure, allowing concentration on grammar and short words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The arithmetic of memorization:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban: 300 cmavo, 1000 difficult gismu, 2000 easy rafsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Image language: 300 cmavo, an easy 1000 gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These languages would be immediately translatable into each other and would be stepping stones, allowing the students to get more quickly to the point where they can think in the language, the next step being the learning of the Lojban predicates. The easier entry should allow many more people to get involved in Lojban&#039;s logical structure, and the goal would be to rapidly swell the number of people interested in Lojban/Loglan. A major goal of Lojban should be to build up public awareness of the language and increasing the number of people involved in Lojban (and minor variants).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Technology continues to make communication around the world easier. A person with a PC or MAC on a computer network types out a message to a correspondent and it is received around the world, sometimes with a delay of a day but often in seconds. Such ease of communications with an electronic interface creates opportunities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Automatic computer translation between languages does not appear feasible in the foreseeable future. One particular problem is that words in the source language have many meanings and the speakers and listeners are able to select one from the context. Another problem is that the source language and the target language have completely different structures. Undoubtedly the occasional ambiguity of the grammars creates additional problems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Suppose a group decided to establish a family of languages designed so that translation between them would be easy. What would that family look like. We are going to call the version for speakers of English &amp;quot;Logenglish&amp;quot; and other versions might be Logmandarin, Logportugese, etc. We will call these languages &amp;quot;images&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;image languages&amp;quot; since they are exact images of the original. The vocabularies of Logenglish would be selected based on English in order to ease the learning problem. On the other hand the words should not be English words since their grammatical use and exact meanings would be different and the user should not be lulled into thinking that he or she was using a trivial variant of English. (A problem with the image language approach is that the student might confuse what is a legal Logenglish predicate word and what is not, but when eventually learning the full language, it is unlikely that he/she would confuse Logenglish words with Lojban, because if the word is recognizably like English, it is almost certainly not Lojban.) The vocabularies of other image languages would be based on the native language. In principal anyone could create his or her own set of words to correspond to the Lojban. However, it is likely that a group such as a high school class would speak the language to one another and so would have to have a single image.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The initial goal would be have the structures of Logenglish (i.e., Logical English) and Logportugese so similar that a computer could translate from one to the other trivially so that a Logenglish message typed into one terminal could be translated into a universal form by the terminal and transmitted and the receiving terminal could virtually instantly translate the universal form into Logportugese or Logswahili. The sender would not have any reason to know the dialect of the receiver.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A second more distant goal would be to have these languages created so that when spoken they would be easily parsed into words by computer so that when a sentence in Loghindi was spoken into a computer controlled telephone, the computer would translate the sounds into letters and words of the universal language and transmit the universal form, which would then be transmitted to the listener after being transformed into Logspanish of Lognavaho or whatever was needed. If the family of languages had a one to one correspondence between words and the word ordering was the same, the spoken words could be transmitted word by word (with electronic indicators of tone and pitch and inflection and timing) and the listener would here those words translated into his or her own variant as they were spoken by the speaker, word by word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assuming these goals were set for a family of languages, then what would the design look like. The universal form would be a template. Words would have meanings that would be invariant for all the dialects. We would like to suggest that Lojban is an excellent candidate for such a template. The image languages would not have to have the same set of letters and sounds as in Lojban but predicates should have the Lojban prescribed pattern of vowels and consonants, (e.g. basic predicates of the form CCVCV or CCVCV). In our efforts here, we have assumed the permissible vowels are the same as for Lojban and have the same pronunciation. Such a choice makes it easier to use the image language as a stepping stone in acquiring Lojban. The image languages should be designed to maximize the ability to learn the vocabularies. The truly important constraint is that there must be a clear one-to-one correspondence between words, including compound predicates. Hence the universal language (Lojban) would continue to be developed and each addition or modification would be reflected in the image languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the beginner, the terminal might be quite helpful, with an on-line dictionary suggesting Logenglish translations of English words, and it could parse the sentences and warn of ungrammatical constructions that violate the rules of Lojban. Such programs would have to created. Some, such as the parser, would be the same for all the languages, since it could be executed after the translation into Lojban. The basic translation program would just substitute words from one language to the other, based on a list of pairs it has in memory. It would be much simpler than the existing parsing programs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The creation of Lojban from Loglan (a registered trademark of Dr. J. C. Brown) has demonstrated how the words can be changed, and how harmless it is to substitute new spellings. Lojban has gone much further in continuing the development of the language. No such development would be possible for the image languages since it is critical that they be exact template projections of Lojban in order to guarantee trivial translation between the image languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following predicates indicate how one might proceed, but each image language should have rules of thumb describing how it handles certain situations such as how to expand a single syllable word in English into a two syllable predicate, from &amp;quot;bulb&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;bulbu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;grow&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;groro&amp;quot; for example. Here we need to create a final vowel since the original words have only one and we have chosen to repeat the existing vowel. We suggest that when possible, Logenglish should stay close to the spelling of English (within the constraints of Lojban&#039;s rules for C/V patterns) even when the pronunciation changes significantly. In Logenglish, all letters are pronounced including a final &amp;quot;e&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;cattle&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
becomes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;catle&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The pretty little girls school&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
might become&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;le preti litle girli skolo&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course the Lojban grammar is unambiguous so that &amp;quot;preti&amp;quot; modifies &amp;quot;litle&amp;quot;, which modifies &amp;quot;girli&amp;quot; which modifies &amp;quot;skolo&amp;quot;. We have retained the short word &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; (from Lojban), since we believe that little would be gained in trying to get little words that correspond to English. In fact the little words represent structures that are quite different from English. In learning short words, the student would be putting the effort into learning aspects of the grammar that are fundamentally different from his/her native language. The effort in learning the image language would make it easier to progress to Lojban, having already learned the grammar and short words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In choosing words for the image languages, we have chosen to keep the spelling as similar as possible to the natural language, keeping in mind the pronunciation would probably be following Lojban rules. That would emphasize to the student that this is not his/her native language. Notice in any case the spellings in the image language are rarely the same as for the natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; SAMPLE ELEMENTARY PREDICATE WORDS (=gismu IN LOJBAN) &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words below are from the beginning of the &amp;quot;baselined gismu list&amp;quot; and hence all begin with &#039;b&#039; since gismu begin with consonants. The table illustrates that many gismu can be created in image languages with spellings recognizable to a speaker of the language. Others like &amp;quot;badna&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;banana&amp;quot;) are not easy to improve on. The Logmandarin words were created with the assistance of M.-Z. Ding and Y.-C. Lai.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Parentheses show the word or phrase being approximated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban     Log-   Logpor- Log-     Log-                    &lt;br /&gt;
    english	      tuguese spanish  mandarin                &lt;br /&gt;
------     -------	      -------  -------	 --------      &lt;br /&gt;
bundle/package containing ...                              &lt;br /&gt;
bakfu      pakje  fardo   bulto    bogva                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (fardo)	      (bulto)  (bogwa)                 &lt;br /&gt;
cow/cattle/ox/beef					   &lt;br /&gt;
bakni	   catle  gadjo	  gnado	   nuxnu		   &lt;br /&gt;
	   (gado) (ganado)    *(female                     &lt;br /&gt;
			  cow)				   &lt;br /&gt;
chalk in form of ... from source of	...                    &lt;br /&gt;
bakri      tcaka  jitsi   tizja    fenbi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (giz)  (tiza)  (fenbi)                          &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
bucket                                                     &lt;br /&gt;
baktu      bukte  balde   balde    tongo                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (balde)	      (balde)  (tong)                  &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
plant bulb of species ...                                  &lt;br /&gt;
balji      bulbu  bulbo   bulbo    falgi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (bulbo)	      (bulbo)  (hui gin)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
balcony                                                    &lt;br /&gt;
balni      balko  balko   balko    yangta                  &lt;br /&gt;
           (balcao)	      (balcon) (yan tai)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
blade of ...                                               &lt;br /&gt;
balre      blade  filjo   filjo    davpi                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (fio)  (filo)  (dao pi)                         &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
future of ...                                              &lt;br /&gt;
balvi      futre  futro   futro    junla                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (futuro)	      (futuro) (jung la)               &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
protect...from...by...under                                &lt;br /&gt;
bandu      prote  prote   prote    bavfu                   &lt;br /&gt;
           (proteger) (proteger)   (bao hu)                &lt;br /&gt;
                                                           &lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;mumnu&amp;quot; is	&amp;quot;female	cow&amp;quot; while &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot;	is non-sexed &amp;quot;bovine&amp;quot;  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Logenglish the letter &#039;x&#039; could be reserved to indicate where the constructed word does not correspond to the English. Hence English &amp;quot;apple&amp;quot; might be &amp;quot;xaple&amp;quot; in Logenglish. We used &amp;quot;tc&amp;quot; to represent &amp;quot;ch&amp;quot; since the spelling of &amp;quot;ch&amp;quot; in English is &amp;quot;tc&amp;quot; in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; COMPOUND WORDS (lujvo) FROM PARTICLES OF PREDICATES (rafsi) &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban is the template, it remains critical to continue development of compound words in Lojban. While users could make up compounds on the fly as they are encouraged to in Lojban, the only official compound words in any Log-language would be those that correspond to those officially sanctioned words in Lojban. For the purpose of minimizing the required memory, we propose that there be only one acceptable rafsi for each gismu in derivative languages, namely the fragment formed by dropping the final vowel. To go from a compound Lojban word to the corresponding word a derivative language, break the compound into rafsi, e.g., R1 R2 R3, and then list the corresponding predicates, P1 P2 P3, and translate them into the derivative language, yielding D1 D2 D3, cut the final vowels off D1 and D2 and put the result together, as one would in Lojban, adding hyphen &#039;y&#039; as required [ed.: which is between each pair of rafsi, as the proposal is stated - the canonical 4-letter form is best described as replacing the final vowel by a &#039;y&#039;].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The paucity of fragments will make pronunciation a bit more awkward but it will drastically cut the list of items to memorize. The objective here is to minimize the memorization of parts of the language that do not correspond to really new grammatical structures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By providing the beginner with predicates that have a rather recognizable spelling, we would making easy to get into the first level of the language. And it would be easy for people of every language group. If someone wanted to make Lojban available in Tibet, they would undertaking a major project, since they would have to produce instructional material in the image language. It would a relatively easy extra step to create a translation list of 1000 basic predicates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While many people will tell us it is not difficult to learn the almost 1000 gismu, apparently not many have in fact mastered all the gismu and the short words including the digits and so on. There is another thousand plus rafsi to memorize in Lojban, while all of the rafsi would be automatic in the image languages. &lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; FINAL THOUGHTS &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban helps us understand the nature of thought and the nature of language. It is a wonderful opportunity to explore these ideas that are so fundamental to the nature of human beings, and we feel Lojban should be of interest to an immense audience for this reason.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first question about the usability Lojban is whether people can think in the language. Users would really like to know what thinking in Lojban is like. We suspect that limited vocabularies prevent most people interested in the language from ever finding out and the image language idea should allow people to expand their vocabularies rapidly. Logenglish and Logportugese and other image languages could help people find out. When people learn something, they like a learning curve that gets them to a operational level quickly. (It will take some time to see if it is possible to restrict each word to a single meaning).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The learning curve should allow them to progress incrementally, so that learning a bit more allows them to do a bit more. Currently Lojban presents a huge memory requirement that has little to do with the required learning of the grammar. If people want to learn to speak the language, we should make it as easy as possible, (and in particular we should not burden them with technical terms like &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;valsi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;gismu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kunbri&amp;quot; (obsolete), &amp;quot;cmavo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;glico&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;lujvo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;rafsi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;tanru&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot;, and undoubtedly others).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By making relatively easy to get fluent in a dialect of Lojban, we could get a larger number of people who could experience the mind-bending aspects of Lojban (as opposed to the purely painful aspects). By having people communicating between Logenglish and Logmandarin, we could rapidly see what the differences are in the way the language is used. We could more rapidly demonstrate that there is something to test. We would greatly increase the number of candidates who might want to take the next step of learning the Lojban predicate vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By having an array of these image languages, we would keep the supremacy of Lojban clear. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It would seem wise to limit those criticisms of image languages that are made on the grounds that the similarity to native languages would cause confusion, since it is often claimed that Lojban and Loglan and both highly recognizable. While those two are clearly less recognizable to the student, the requirements of testing Sapir-Whorf suggests that any similarity is scientifically problematical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We would like to thank Bob LeChevalier for his comments which have helped us clarify the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I&#039;ll try to respond with brief summaries of some points that I&#039;ve raised in objection in the comments they mentioned (my actual responses to their drafts were several pages long). First a general objection, though:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The basic assumption behind this proposal is that memorizing all of the Lojban cmavo, gismu, and rafsi is necessary to get &amp;quot;into the first level of the language&amp;quot;, in their words. It isn&#039;t so. For the &amp;quot;first level&amp;quot; we would never recommend anyone learn other than the long-form rafsi, which are made the same way as in their proposal. Also, to learn the basic grammatical structure required to &#039;think in the language&#039;, you don&#039;t need more than several dozen gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, conversation and letter writing are not &#039;first-level&#039; skills. Nor would learning the basic structures or even a thousand gismu allow you to &#039;think in the language&#039; for real. You can only get a taste of the experience until you can remember or conjure up words for the entire variety of human experience that you wish to deal with; the average English speaker has a vocabulary between 20000 and 100000 words. You can &#039;think&#039; in a foreign language with a frac-tion of those numbers, but it isn&#039;t a tiny fraction. For thinking, conversing, or writing in a new language, it isn&#039;t practical to &#039;look up in the dictionary&#039; to find suggested Logenglish words for your English words, even when it would be a straight word for word substitution - which it usually wouldn&#039;t be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus we have two conflicting goals. If you want the &#039;quick gratification&#039; of a survey of the grammar - enough to learn about the perils of English grammar and the nature of language, you can use Logenglish and the other images, or you could just as easily use Lojban with real English &#039;predicates&#039; - the specific meanings of the words is not as important for such a purpose, and English speakers could get used to a pidgin that did not distinguish parts of speech easier than they could memorize any set of words well enough to communicate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if you want to use Lojban (or a relative) as a language, for the purposes of a language, you will need to work quite a bit harder, and the advantages of an intermediate image language are lost.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Specific (and minor points):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Many of the specific proposed image words do not meet the Lojban rules for permissible initials an medials. Making these lists up will not be trivial. But if someone wants to volunteer, and then get a few people to volunteer learning the words to try an image language experiment, fine. But I doubt if we can justify any major effort by la lojbangirz. as an organization along these lines in the near future.&lt;br /&gt;
# Teaching to people in Tibet will still require writing a textbook and dictionary in Tibetan, whether image languages are used or not. I therefore don&#039;t see any savings due to image languages; you actually need to do more work, since you additionally have to invent new gismu and redo all the Lojban words in the books to fit the new image.&lt;br /&gt;
# People who know only the image languages can talk only to others who know the same image, unless they are computer aided. Computers are not yet sufficiently ubiquitous, especially outside the U. S., to make intercultural computer communication anything but a toy of the elite.&lt;br /&gt;
# There is a reference objecting to the Lojban terminology we use in teaching the grammar, and Dr. Yorke has proposed using metaphorical English instead (such as &amp;quot;scene&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;script&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;selbri&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;role&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;sumti&amp;quot;). I personally think more people would be confused by this, since the might not see the analogy, but we can mention such analogies in the textbook as alternative teaching aids, if readers think they help (can readers determine the analogy without further explanation - does it clear anything up for your understanding?). It is certainly not Lojbanic to use figurative metaphors like these - Lojban tanru are as analytic as pragmatically possible.&lt;br /&gt;
# Regarding recognition of Logenglish apart from Lojban, they say: &amp;quot;If a word is recognizably like English, it is almost certainly not Lojban&amp;quot;. Truly a cynical observation. Many Lojban words remind people of English words, but not always the one closest to their meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
# The only way to talk intelligently about this proposal is with an example involving more than just isolated words. I&#039;ll use the same Saki excerpt used for examining John Hodges writing convention proposals. The following are three versions of the same passage, using alternatives forms for the Logenglish brivla (and some of my readability proposals from that earlier text).&lt;br /&gt;
## the text using Logenglish words derived as closely as I can guess to the algorithm suggested (which was loosely stated, and not followed exactly in all of the sample words), including using &#039;x&#039; where English words do not have a necessary consonant (or a &#039;v&#039; &#039;z&#039; or &#039;t&#039; if &#039;x&#039; cannot be used and a voiced or unvoiced consonant is needed), reusing the vowel if the English doesn&#039;t have two, and otherwise stressing visual recognition; I&#039;ll also use only the key word to maximize the reader&#039;s chances of guessing.&lt;br /&gt;
## a variant version, still maximizing visual recognition - but trying to devise less structured ways to deal with recognition problems of each word. In some cases, I use a synonym of the key word. (In neither a. nor b. did I check carefully for words that would conflict if final vowels are dropped. In a., however, I had to use &amp;quot;accompany&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;with&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;kansa&amp;quot; in order to get a non-conflicting word without great gymnastics.)&lt;br /&gt;
## using English words, tied together with a visible hyphen which is to be pronounced as /yuh/ (this syllable is one proposal for hyphenating le&#039;avla), or prefixed with a hyphen so they don&#039;t get read as Lojban words. Nora&#039;s Loglan translator involved a step something like this, but added standard suffixes to convert between nouns, verbs, and adjectives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, how many of the Logenglish substitutes can you identify without going to the third passage? Do any of the substitutions help you recognize the meaning of the passage more easily? Anyone who wishes is welcome to try doing better at coming up with good Logenglish words for each gismu in the passage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
a.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e xutra &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selpitxi parnysiste cu roroi belvi lenu ko&#039;a ba retru ko&#039;a ca lo ba daxta .I ko&#039;a noi se xacpo le smala je bronu spanydogvo poi ke&#039;a se losxe fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a xacpo ko&#039;a cu valkycomxo levi xinsi fo leva vindo ta&#039;i le pasta po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu resno lenu le vindo cu xopne conti fi ro le xevne parta pe ze&#039;o le nigvybetnytimxe&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la selpitxi je selxinsi parnysista goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e talka mi lesu&#039;u levza ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u sposu goi ko&#039;e cu xacpo xonxu leko&#039;e xitxe je vatrynalpatru covrycotxo noi ke&#039;a xanga leko&#039;e xarma gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u xongysupre brote goi ko&#039;i cu singi &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do lipxi li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se singi semu&#039;i lenu xamzyxanxo ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xasre lenu le nunsingi cu xanxo ko&#039;u .I sei ko konvo be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei brezyvitxo je silna xevne poi ke&#039;a simli ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi tinkyvitxyxopni lenu ro ko&#039;a ba valkypatru leva vindo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e speka &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la selpitli parnysista cu roroi belvi lenu ko&#039;a ba retru ko&#039;a ca lo ba dande .I ko&#039;a noi se copni le smalu je brona spanydogji poi ke&#039;a se losna fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a copni ko&#039;a cu valkycomgo levi ninsi fo leva vindo ta&#039;i le pasta po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu justi lenu le vindo cu kopne conti fi ro le nevne parta pe ze&#039;o le nignybetnytimne&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la selpitli je selninsi parnysista goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e talka mi lesu&#039;u levna ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u sposa goi ko&#039;e cu copni ponsu leko&#039;e blino je vatrynaltrugo covrycotsa noi ke&#039;a xanga leko&#039;e barma gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u zungymosta brote goi ko&#039;i cu singe &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do jumpa li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se singe semu&#039;i lenu muzdyrirta ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u serta lenu le nunsinge cu rirta ko&#039;u .I sei ko konvo be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei brizyvitno je silna nevne poi ke&#039;a simla ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi tinkyvitnynopni lenu ro ko&#039;a ba valkytrugo leva vindo li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
c.:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I fo&#039;e -utter &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu la sel-pity -parent-sister cu roroi -believe lenu ko&#039;a ba -return ko&#039;a ca lo ba -day .I ko&#039;a noi se -accompany le -small je -brown -spanish-dog poi ke&#039;a se -lose fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a -accompany ko&#039;a cu -walk-go levi -in fo leva -window ta&#039;i le -past po ko&#039;a .I la&#039;edi&#039;u cu -reason lenu le -window cu -open -continue fi ro le -evening -part pe ze&#039;o le -night-between-time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.I la sel-pity je sel-in -parent-sister goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e -talk mi lesu&#039;u -leave ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u -married goi ko&#039;e cu -accompany -possess leko&#039;e -white je -water-nal- pass_through -cover-coat noi ke&#039;a -hang leko&#039;e -arm gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u -young-superlative -brother goi ko&#039;i cu -sing &amp;lt;&amp;lt;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do -leap li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt; noi roroi se -sing semu&#039;i lenu -amusing-annoy ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u -assert lenu le nun-sing cu -annoy ko&#039;u .I sei ko -know be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei -breeze-without je -quiet -evening poi ke&#039;a -similar ti ko&#039;u mi piso&#039;aroi -think-without-opine lenu ro ko&#039;a ba -walk-pass_through leva -window li&#039;u&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses == &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from David Morrow ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, has anyone tried to train animals using Lojban? Perhaps it would turn out more effective then natural languages for communication maybe with highly developed types like primates or those who are intelligent and very different like whales. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Not really, although I talk to my cat in Lojban, and he sometimes seems to know a few words - but it may be my tone of voice or the similarity to English words that does the trick. There aren&#039;t all that many people working seriously on training primates and dolphins, which are likely to be the only animals intelligent enough to deal with grammar at all. &lt;br /&gt;
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David: Also, it seems to me that history can show whether Whorf-Sapir is right, though I&#039;ll admit the evidence is open to interpretation. However, the evidence seems to show that language&#039;s effect on thought is not so ironclad. Notice that highly inflected Latin and West Teutonic (ie, English) changed during the Dark Ages to predominantly analytical grammars that remain today. This might be ascribed to the changed mindset between Classical and Medieval civilizations, but German in its homeland remained inflected, and non-Indo-European languages like Basque and Hungarian (or rather their speakers) all participated in Medieval culture. Further, Modern civilization differs profoundly from Medieval and even Renaissance culture despite the fact that we could probably converse with Chaucer or Shakespeare. Indeed, our civilization probably resembles Roman and Hellenistic civilizations - at least in attitudes and philosophy - much more than it does the worlds of Alfred or Luther. Of course, we could view the attempts to develop artificial languages as a result of our outlook... &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: I read a history of English not long ago. Researchers believe that English inflection was lost for a much different reason than you propose. Specifically, England was conquered twice in less than a century, first by the Danes, then by the Normans. The Danes spoke a North-Germanic language which was quite similar to West-Germanic Old-English in vocabulary and grammar. But the inflection pattern was different for most words. As the two peoples merged, the Danes learned English easily, but not the declensions. The same thing happened when the Normans conquered England - they generally didn&#039;t learn English, so English borrowed heavily from Norman French. But French also had different, incompatible declensions, and differences in gender, thus reinforcing the confusion when English speakers learned French. These two languages were so mutually incompatible that eventually Anglo-Normans reverted back to English when their ties to France weakened.&lt;br /&gt;
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David: Still, I don&#039;t think thought is as constrained by language as might appear. Poetry struggles to overcome that limitation; most likely social factors constrain thought, like being burned at the stake for saying the Earth is a sphere.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: I think the Sapir-Whorf constraint, if it exists, is of a different nature. I think that the constraints of grammar may hinder our ability to manipulate concepts that are encoded into particular grammatical boxes. Where the hindrance is too severe, we avoid pursuing those lines of thought unless they are particularly fruitful and useful in the short term. Individuals, such as poets and geniuses like Einstein, may break through the barriers for one or two concepts, but the society as a whole cannot follow in their footsteps.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== from Jamie Bechtel: ===&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Nomic&amp;quot; is a game designed to mimic the way a government works. All the rules of Nomic are subject to change, and the initial set of rules for any game of Nomic simply tell how to go about changing the rules. After a short while of playing Nomic, the game can easily be changed to the point where it is no longer the same game. Whether a person is playing by the rules or not, is determined almost entirely by judgement, which need not be bound by rules of precedent. Any game of Nomic can quickly expand to include all aspects of life. A description of Nomic can be found in the article &amp;quot;Nomic: A Self-Modifying Game Based on Reflexivity in Law&amp;quot; in the June &#039;82 Scientific American. It can also be found in Metamagical Themas by Douglas Hofstadter.&lt;br /&gt;
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A possible way to test Sapir-Whorf would be to create an artificial &amp;quot;game-culture&amp;quot; and test the influence of various languages on its development. It seems to me that a culture can be thought of as an extremely complex game that extends to all aspects of social interaction. Of course, culture differs from most games in various ways. Cultures have little distinction between the rules that compose the &amp;quot;games&amp;quot;, and the rules of skill (social skill). The rules of cultural-games are also constantly under change, (especially between individuals). Also, in natural cultures, it is not always clear when one is acting outside the cultural rules. But Nomic does have these traits.&lt;br /&gt;
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To test Sapir-Whorf (at least its influence on culture) you might create a flexible self-modifying game (like Nomic) that closely mimics most aspects of culture. You could then have several small populations of different linguistic-cultures, each starting out with the same game-culture, and then eventually developing their own. (The games will probably change the languages too - maybe just pragmatics). Testing the effects of various languages on these artificial game-cultures would be simple, since you would be able to see the change of the game&#039;s rules (since you could know the rules they started with). &lt;br /&gt;
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=== from Jim Carter ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Editor&#039;s Note: These comments were received and replied to via the network mail, and have been slightly revised to make them more clear to the general reader. In some cases there is non-standard technical vocabulary, and references to things Jim Carter has worked on apart from Lojban. Enough of the comments are relevant that we&#039;ve chosen to print them with minimal editing, and without trying to add much extra explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Some of the comments are in response to things in this issue (specifically the LogFest plans), and some are responses to items in JL10. Bob responds to some, but not all, of the comments.] &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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1. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;What short term applications for Lojban are worth highest priority?&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As a substitute for Pidgin English in linguistically impoverished areas (not exactly short term). &lt;br /&gt;
* Developing a parser-organizer -- not just a parse tree, but identify the antecedents of pronouns, which phrase ends up in which case, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;This has been extremely valuable to me in developing - gua!spi [ed. note: Carter&#039;s derivative of Loglan], as it reveals usage problems which are not at all obvious to an unaided human.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Approximate distribution of code lines:		   &lt;br /&gt;
Data structures, link-list subrt., etc.	  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
Word-related basic subroutines		  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
Reading	dictionary, lexer, parser,			   &lt;br /&gt;
  caselinks				  800		   &lt;br /&gt;
Arguments, infinitives,	compounds,			   &lt;br /&gt;
  replication				 1200		   &lt;br /&gt;
Modal phrases				   300		   &lt;br /&gt;
Pronouns, modal	antecedents, proper names 1400		   &lt;br /&gt;
Printing output				  1000		   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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2. Replicated cases -- does Lojban have them? Does Lojban want them? For example, in &amp;quot;I want to swim&amp;quot;, who&#039;s going to swim? You or I? This is an example of a replicated case. Replicated cases have turned out to be much more important for -gua!spi than I originally anticipated. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: If I understand your referent, these are usually ellipsized in the natural languages, and are optionally so in Lojban, although in Lojban it is far more obvious that an ellipsis is taking place. Thus &amp;quot;I want to swim&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;mi djica lenu limna&amp;quot;, where limna is a bare selbri with the first place &#039;mi&#039; ellipsized, meaning literally &amp;quot;I want the event of &#039;... swims ...&#039;&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;I want the swimming&amp;quot;. You can of course be explicit with &amp;quot;mi djica lenu mi limna&amp;quot;, and we tend to do so in writing for new people. If the replicated place is more complicated and you don&#039;t want to repeat it, we have a couple of anaphoric ways to back reference the earlier place (or forward reference the later place - a very un-English thing to do).&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: Yes, Loglan abstractions lack arguments. But when you look carefully at what you (I) actually say, I find that literally 99% of the abstractions need an argument. Some gismu have cases which are usually occupied by abstractions, like djica x2, and these almost invariably need a copy of a main phrase argument (x1 for djica). Of course variants occur, as in &amp;quot;mi djica lenu do limna&amp;quot;. But the variants are much less common. Even rarer are open first arguments; in -gua!spi I tell the user to say &amp;quot;^:i !ji /daw !suy !jl&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;jl&amp;quot; is the anonymous variable. But this most rare form is the default in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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In modal phrases it turns out that most (maybe 80%) also need a replicated argument, but it&#039;s much more variable than in abstractions; it&#039;s about equally divided between &amp;quot;previous sentence&amp;quot; (in discursives), x1 of restricted phrase (in restrictive sub-clauses and many subordinate assertions), and &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; (for the rest of the sub-assertions). I have some rules worked out that are about 98% effective at getting the right replicated argument, with very little cueing from the user.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: I may be missing something here - I think we&#039;re saying the same thing. In normal conversational use in Lojban, people use a lot of abstractions. But normally, the x1 place of those abstractions is totally obvious from context; in fact, even without context, generally it is the x1 of the main bridi. The speaker is always permitted to omit &#039;obvious sumti&#039; as ellipsis, provided that the listener will understand the implied reference. Thus in Lojban usage, the replicated x1 place will often be left out. (But it can be referenced easily with a single cmavo pro-sumti if you really want to be explicit.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, as to other-than-x1 places of the abstraction, these tend to be specified about as often as they would be in the main bridi, and therefore might use replicated places. But again, our pro-sumti system handles this.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lojban, discursives and &#039;modal phrases&#039; (our sumti which are tagged with a sumti tcita, I think), are grammatically distinct from simple abstraction sumti, and a difference in the default interpretation of the ellipsis is less likely to be a problem. For subordinate assertions in relative clauses, we have the pro-sumti &amp;quot;ke&#039;a&amp;quot; to refer outward to the main assertion, but this can usually be ellipsized, too, just as in English (&amp;quot;The house that Jack built.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;The house that is built by Jack.&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;The house such that Jack built it.&amp;quot; The latter is the translation of the Lojban phrasing of the colloquial English.)&lt;br /&gt;
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By the way, Institute Loglan does allow places on abstraction - they just make a grammatical distinction between an abstraction optionally with sumti, and one without sumti. This distinction is made in violation of audio-visual isomorphism (&amp;quot;lepo [mi] godzi&amp;quot; vs &amp;quot;le po godzi&amp;quot;), where in oral speech you cannot tell the intended grammar of the &amp;quot;po&amp;quot;. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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3. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;We also will have the goal, by the end of the weekend, of deciding on several last minute proposals regarding the language and declaring a conditional or unconditional baseline (freeze) on the grammar.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- Hooray! At last, an official Loglan grammar! (Now you can proceed to work on the organizational syntax level.) &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: If you mean the syntax of greater than sentence length constructs, it is already in the grammar. If you mean questions of anaphora interpretation, they&#039;re already defined. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: You wouldn&#039;t believe how hard I had to work to get &amp;quot;the speaker&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the listener&amp;quot; identified consistently, as well as &amp;quot;the reply sentence&amp;quot;. And that was only a small part of the organization work. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Ah! I think you are talking about computer recognition of anaphora in a multi-party conversation, given no clues as to who is talking. That isn&#039;t a grammatical problem, but rather an artificial intelligence problem.&lt;br /&gt;
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With live speakers, this isn&#039;t a problem - in any given utterance, we know who &#039;I&#039; am and who &#039;you&#039; are, and if there is any question in our minds, we can identify either with a vocative or a relative clause. In narrative recording of dialog, the narrator has to identify the speakers, too. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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4. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;There will be a discussion of Jim Yorke and Celso Grebogi&#039;s proposal to have Lojban image languages using gismu based on single languages to make them easier to learn.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- Hiss, boo! I am of two minds on this. First, the main benefit to me of Loglan, and now -gua!spi, is its grammar and organization, and so it makes a lot of sense to use Lojban grammar on English vocabulary. I do this in the &amp;quot;English&amp;quot; output option of my parser-organizer. However, when you&#039;ve read as much of that swill as I have, you quickly learn that Loglan demands 1-1 correspondence between meaning and word mapping; &amp;quot;un-only&amp;quot; just doesn&#039;t cut it for &amp;quot;barely&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, case defaults, switches, replication, etc. are very specific and aren&#039;t present in English. Thus you&#039;re really learning Lojban or -gua!spi vocabulary, just without the words, and you might as well do the whole job right. &lt;br /&gt;
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5. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;Side issues may include applications such as teaching Lojban to kids (including using such teaching to help them learn English better)&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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- See above. I freely teach my kid -gua!spi grammar since it works pretty well on English and since it&#039;s more coherent than what he&#039;s getting in school.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. Responding to Bob&#039;s: &amp;quot;Carter&#039;s work, in particular, will take a fair amount of tanru and lujvo re-making; he used a lot of Institute Loglan words that are based on no longer acceptable tanru.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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- Plus playing fast and loose with the organizational compounding rules, such as they were under the Institute. This is an area that you should look at very closely: regularities in compound formation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: We want to see what large numbers of Lojbanists do in compound formation before making decisions. &#039;Let usage decide.&#039; Your experiences were relevant, but are only one set of data points. Besides you, only JCB ever made a great number of compounds, and we both know that his were awful (He still defends Institute Loglan &amp;quot;mormao&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;kill&amp;quot; even though it requires a different interpretation of &amp;quot;madzo&amp;quot; in a compound than separate. Oh, and Faith Rich made a lot, too. But she (and most others who make compounds) made some bad ones too, based on JCB&#039;s patterns, and often overdefined or used English idiom. She also never wrote text, so what work she did with place structures is untested. In fact, almost everyone who makes lujvo forgets about place structures.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: My point here is that compounds ought to have a specific meaning, and therefore need to be prescribed, not described.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Agreed that compounds must have a specified meaning, but who is doing the prescribing. Every linguist and lexicographer will tell you that a dictionary is-and-must-be descriptive of what people actually do, not prescriptive. The main difference in logical languages is that whoever does the dictionary must gather enough information to form a consensus on what actual usage dictates a word&#039;s meaning to be. To make this process easier, we&#039;ll quickly develop guidelines as to how to algorithmically derive the place structure by combining terms - probably quite similar to what you proposed several years ago for Institute Loglan. But if people don&#039;t choose to follow these guidelines when they make a new lujvo, it&#039;s their language, not the dictionary writers&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim:&lt;br /&gt;
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7. Responding to Bob&#039;s &amp;quot;In addition, the current gismu list has more expressive power than earlier lists.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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- Right on! Most if not all of your added gismu are in - gua!spi.&lt;br /&gt;
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8. Responding to the Institute&#039;s proposal to divide gismu into &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;verbs&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bodyparts&amp;quot;, etc. sounds rather familiar. In Old Loglan JCB defined all the motion words with the same cases (x1 = mover, x2 = destination, x3 = origin x4 = route), and many such categories were apparent that had somewhat uniform cases. I was able to adjust the definitions of a relatively small number of words and get the great majority of Loglan words into uniform case categories. This was the basis of my Loglan thesaurus, which I have continued into -gua!spi. HOWEVER, it was always my intention that the thesaurus categories were merely a learning aid, just as JCB says in L1 of the motion words, and if a category member seemed to need a variant definition I gave it one. For example under Clothes, &amp;quot;x1 is a boot&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;x1 is a coat&amp;quot;; etc.; but also &amp;quot;x1 is a curtain over x2&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;x1 is a garment worn by x2 on its body part x3&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for &amp;quot;nouns&amp;quot;, I&#039;m not averse to using that terminology for single-case gismu, as a tie-in for people who do have nouns in their native language. But of course the student has to be reminded that Lojban doesn&#039;t have special words for &amp;quot;is a&amp;quot; in sentences like &amp;quot;George is a horse&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;horse&amp;quot; is very verb-like in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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9. Responding to Athelstan&#039;s comments on Esperanto &amp;quot;rules&amp;quot;: - a. How does Esperanto get away with not having all the article variants that Lojban has? For that matter, how does English? Close attention to articles is one big benefit Loglan (and progeny) has brought to me. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: The distinctions made by Lojban aren&#039;t often consciously made in English and other languages, although different ones are used that are somewhat comparable. Thus le/lo correspond approximately to definite/indefinite articles in English; lo/loi corresponds approximately to the difference between &#039;count nouns&#039; and &#039;mass nouns&#039; - though nearly all English words are categorized as one or the other, whereas any Lojban word can be either. Names in English have no article, except for &#039;The Donald&#039; of recent news tabloids, and a few archaic usages surviving from when British explorers used them for faraway places like &#039;The Transvaal&#039;, and rivers like &#039;The Mississippi&#039;. In any case, the capital is enough to mark a name in English in most circumstances. Set descriptors are relatively un-useful in English. Now of course, all this is excuses - English is just a vague language, but it does have some complex structure to its articles and their equivalents. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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b. I suggest that you nail down official terminology for &amp;quot;case&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sumti place&amp;quot;, and so on. In Latin there are a finite number (six?) of official cases, which are used semi-idiosyncratically on each word, much like Lojban&#039;s x1, x2, x3, x4, x5 (or Loglan&#039;s X, Y, Q, H, W). As I use the words, a gismu is a relation between one or more &amp;quot;cases&amp;quot;, much as a function takes arguments. However, what you&#039;re talking about is places into which actual parameters can be substituted. The actual parameter can be called a &amp;quot;case occupant&amp;quot;. Here are some examples: &lt;br /&gt;
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sin(x), x being an angle in radians. &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; IS the first case of sin. (Or &amp;quot;x&amp;quot; is the symbol representing the first case of sin.) sin(pi). pi OCCUPIES the first case of sin, not &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;represents&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;x1 is the house of resident x2&amp;quot;. x1 is the first case (or represents). &amp;quot;That is my house&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;That&amp;quot; occupies the first case, and &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; occupies the second.&lt;br /&gt;
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Thus the &amp;quot;accusative case&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;x2 case&amp;quot; is actually a set of what I would call &amp;quot;cases&amp;quot;, one per word, so you would more naturally say &amp;quot;the accusative case of &#039;flecto&#039;&amp;quot;. The relation &amp;quot;case&amp;quot; isn&#039;t very useful without its x2 case being occupied by a specific word. (This despite the Institute&#039;s idea to codify definition regularities by designating specific meanings for specific cases, e.g. x1 is &amp;quot;always&amp;quot; an actor, except that isn&#039;t true.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: A &#039;bridi&#039; is a relation among &#039;sumti places&#039;; a &#039;gismu&#039; is only a word form - the five letter brivla (bridi-valsi = bridi-words) that can be combined into lujvo compounds using their rafsi affixes. The relationship of a bridi is indicated by the &#039;selbri&#039; (erroneously called &#039;kunbri&#039; for a while). A selbri may be an individual gismu or other brivla, or it may be a tanru metaphor. We avoid &#039;case&#039;, along with other linguistic terms that have different definitions for different people (do we mean accusative/nominative/genitive, or actor/beneficiary). Thus, what JCB calls &#039;case tags&#039;, and I think you call &#039;modals&#039;, we call &#039;sumti tcita&#039; or &#039;sumti tags&#039; that label a sumti as to the relationship it holds to the rest of the bridi, or in a relative clause, to the sumti to which it is attached. (All this confusing and conflicting grammar terminology is why la lojbangirz. uses Lojban words in its teaching materials. Any English word we use gets attacked by experts who say that we are using the wrong jargon word for the concept as it is understood in their specialty. We cannot afford to misuse jargon if we want to gain academic respectability.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: 10. My comments on Bob&#039;s answers to questions from students in Dr. Gorsch&#039;s class on semiotics: - Without question, different languages slice up the pie differently. My own favorite example was when my wife and I were buying a picture frame. She was chattering with the storekeeper in Chinese, choosing which one, and finally decided: &amp;quot;|mai /hong -kuang&amp;quot;. Now I know a little bit of Chinese, and &amp;quot;/hong&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;red&amp;quot;. So he takes down a BLACK frame. It turns out that whatever the luminance, if the hue is red then you can call the thing &amp;quot;/hong&amp;quot;, whereas in English, things below a certain luminance are &amp;quot;black&amp;quot; whatever the hue.&lt;br /&gt;
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The same is true on phonemes. I have to hear a word repeated several times before I can distinguish between Chinese &#039;q&#039; and &#039;x&#039; (matching English &#039;sh&#039;), whereas they have trouble distinguishing our &#039;l&#039; and &#039;r&#039; even though they have their own versions of both phonemes.&lt;br /&gt;
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I despair of ever writing down in a dictionary an authoritative statement of the denotation of a word. &amp;quot;Red&amp;quot; is so obvious: 670 nanometers. Yet you can trip up on a little detail of luminance. Now try to define &amp;quot;liberty&amp;quot;. Connotations, as noted by the student, are even more slippery. I solve the problem by slicing the pie with connotation on the outside: the kinds of connotations mentioned by this and other class members are simply too complex for 20th century logic and database software to handle, and so, connotations will have to wait for major advances in the study of language artifacts.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the third question, I find that my referent boundaries and connotations were not changed by learning Loglan -- since, of course, JCB didn&#039;t emphasize referent boundaries -- but the major effects were that the predicate logic definition of the words makes them much clearer to me, and certain grammar elements, particularly the articles, the abstractions and the tenses, fill gaps in English that I feel a need for.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: Learning to write good dictionary definitions is non-trivial. Even if you feel that the best modern dictionaries convey definitions well, which Jim suggests is not the case, the people who write those definitions are bound by space limitations. They also spend years learning to write such definitions, and the results still go through several editing passes. Lojban words, each referring to a single concept, should be easier to define, but I still expect that our first attempts will fall far short of the state of the art.&lt;br /&gt;
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Right now, I&#039;m going through an intensive self-teaching in lexicography right now, so the problems are clear to me. But neither Jim, nor anyone else who isn&#039;t concentrating full time on dictionary work, should expect to be able to write good definitions for words.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for colors and the like - we cheat in Lojban. &amp;quot;Red&amp;quot; means &#039;what you want it to mean&#039;. You add a sumti tcita indicating things like the standard you are using (which could be a wavelength standard, or might simply be labelled &#039;the Chinese standard&#039;). You also may throw in sumti for &#039;against background&#039; and &#039;to observer&#039;, since colors are perceived. But since most people don&#039;t clearly mean any of these when they mention colors, we make all of the places optional. &lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
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11. Regarding le lojbo se ciska pe la maiky&#039;elsym: His experience with learning Lojban sounds very similar to mine learning Loglan -- though I think he has benefitted greatly from the lessons and the live feedback that you have provided. &lt;br /&gt;
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12. On page 45 bottom, you say that the glue in a compound is always &#039;r&#039; unless the second rafsi begins with &#039;r&#039;. I believe I tangled with a similar Institute rule. &#039;n&#039; has to be lexically valid in place of &#039;r&#039;; why not allow the speaker to choose what sounds most pleasing? &lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: No inherent objection, but most people don&#039;t want a choice, especially one based on personal aesthetics, and it sure makes the computer program harder (and which goes into the dictionary?). The expandable forms are justified by the pragmatics of redundancy - longer lujvo contain more information for a noisy environment (a criticism of - gua!spi and other affix-primitive varieties is that they reduce redundancy too far in a language already pushing redundancy requirements on the lower limit. But we may discuss this proposal at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13. Regarding comments from jyjym.: In -gua!spi I also decided that nationalities and national money units should not have primitive words (gismu), for the same reasons. Also, I define &amp;quot;gua&amp;quot; to mean &amp;quot;x1 is the language of people x2&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;spi&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;x1 is a member of the local culture&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;local&amp;quot; is defined relative to the group the speaker is (currently) in. Thus -gua!spi means, literally, the local native language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea is that by speaking this particular language the speaker places himself into a particular culture, from which self-referential words have a unique meaning. I should post this definition in sci.lang -- but my mailer would overflow with people telling me what a dumb idea this is!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14. Regarding changing &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot;: The whole issue of gismu negations is a can of worms. For example, should you say &amp;quot;evil&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;un-good&amp;quot;? I think that as a matter of policy, negated gismu should be discouraged (shades of 1984) unless they clearly are used frequently. Go through all the text you have so far -- admittedly not too expert, from the students -- and identify all compounds ever used with zmadu, and judge whether, had ckamu had a decent rafsi, a compound with ckamu would have been more felicitous. Make the decision by the resulting numbers. The main problem will be to decide in each case if it&#039;s too wordy to use the conversion of &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;. I&#039;ll bet, actually, that you get a decidedly uneven bias towards positive gismu (where &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; is the natural choice).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: This is partly addressed in the gismu proposals section above. Looking at usage so far will tell nothing useful. English has an irregular split between words that are negated by un- and words that have an apparent opposite that is a different root. Lojban usage so far has exactly mirrored English, since English speakers have written almost all of the Lojban that exists (which isn&#039;t much). NO ONE yet writes a Lojbanic seeming idiom. (Helsem tries in his poetry, but in several cases you can tell that he thought of an idea in English and translated it word-for-word in to Lojban. The results have been pretty bad grammatically at times, though he learns.) But he is the best writer outside of DC. I suspect that I can write a Lojbanic idiom, but I have not yet started writing in Lojban on my own - my evidence is my translation of Arabian Nights, which I am doing in a very non-English idiom in places (and I don&#039;t know Arabic).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In any case, we do use &#039;more&#039; and &#039;less&#039; in English in some pattern, though I&#039;ll agree that the positive comparison is more frequent than the negative one. We also use &#039;not less than&#039; and &#039;not more than&#039; (which are of course not quite opposites, since they include the equality middle). Presumably the usage patterns have some metaphysical basis - there are times when people want to express &#039;less than&#039; as a positive comparison. Since Lojban tries to remove restrictions rather than add them when possible, we should make some effort to model this feature of natural language. Why should Lojban restrict negative thinking?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The several other gismu being proposed for consideration at Logfest include some where we don&#039;t want to assume that the negative of the existing gismu is identical to the positive of its &#039;opposite&#039;. Thus we are proposing &#039;ugly&#039; to correspond to &#039;beautiful&#039;, &#039;diffuse&#039; to correspond to &#039;concentrated&#039;, etc. Since we have other pairs of this type in Lojban, we have to at least consider these. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From John Cowan: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Herewith a few tidbits that may interest Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In describing Lojban to a group of friends, I mentioned as a virtue the default tenselessness of Lojban sentences. An English-speaker and an English/Spanish-speaker both expressed puzzlement: &amp;quot;Why would you want to say something without mentioning tense?&amp;quot; Rather than replying directly, I chose to describe a little bit about the Navajo language. I don&#039;t know Navajo, so what I say here is subject to correction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Navajo, it is necessary to mention all sorts of things that English finds unnecessary to specify. The sentence &amp;quot;You eat blueberries&amp;quot;, for example, must be rendered as &amp;quot;You [pl.] eat separable objects one at a time.&amp;quot; The vagueness of English about singular/plural in the case of &amp;quot;you&amp;quot; is impossible to render in Navajo, as is the vagueness of &amp;quot;eat&amp;quot;. The Navajo fence-rider cannot simply report &amp;quot;Fence broken&amp;quot;; he must mention whether the breakage appeared to be accidental, deliberate, or the result of an animal&#039;s act. Likewise it is impossible to say &amp;quot;They went thataway!&amp;quot; in Navajo. The direction of motion must be nailed down, as must the mode of travel, as must the distinction between going &amp;gt;to&amp;lt; a place and going &amp;gt;toward&amp;lt; a place, or going to a place and passing it on the way to another place, etc. etc. etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By comparison, English is downright sloppy. The Navajo-speaker&#039;s reaction to English is &amp;quot;How can I know what the &amp;gt;belagana&amp;lt; are talking about?&amp;quot; From within English itself, this sloppiness seems more like a freedom. It is not necessary to pin down all these details to make a grammatical English sentence. Lojban, although it can be as precise as Navajo, can also be even vaguer than English, leaving even the details English thinks are fundamental unspecified. This gives Lojban an additional range of expressiveness not present in any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems there has been much dispute recently about the &#039; character, which the Lojban materials say is pronounced like the English &amp;quot;h&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Why not use the letter &#039;h&#039;, then?&amp;quot; In JL10, lojbab gives a number of reasons for not using a letter. It seems to me that confusion might be avoided by explaining the role of the buffer sound differently. (I have checked this with lojbab.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider the word &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot;. An English-based view of this would be that it contains four sounds, &amp;quot;c&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, an h-like sound, and another &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;. This is also the view of the current Lojban material. Another view, however, says that the four sounds are &amp;quot;c&amp;quot;, a standard &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, an &amp;gt;unvoiced&amp;lt; &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, and then another standard &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;. In other words, the two &amp;quot;o&amp;quot; sounds are separated by an interval of time when sound is being produced, the vocal tract is in the position for &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;, but voicing has been &amp;quot;turned off&amp;quot;. In the sequence &amp;quot;o&#039;o&amp;quot;, the three sounds are separated only by boundaries between voicing and non-voicing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What about words where the &#039; separates two distinct vowels, for example, &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;? In this case, there is the same pattern of voiced vowel + unvoiced vowel + voiced vowel; the unvoiced vowel may be either &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;-like or &amp;quot;o&amp;quot;- like -- I myself tend to make it &amp;quot;a&amp;quot;-like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This makes for a nice symmetry between . and &#039; . . signifies a period of no sound production at all -- voicing turned off, exhaling turned off. During &#039; , voicing is turned off but exhaling continues, producing a voiceless vowel. Exactly which voiceless vowel does not matter, since Lojban does not distinguish between the different possibilities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note: I am not proposing that this long-winded explanation replace the basic instruction to beginners of &amp;quot;Pronounce an &#039;h&#039;&amp;quot;! It is merely available in reserve, to be trotted out when the student asks &amp;quot;If it sounds like an &#039;h&#039;, why not use the letter &#039;h&#039;&amp;quot;? Then you can reply, &amp;quot;It&#039;s not &amp;gt;really&amp;lt; an h-sound at all, it&#039;s a voiceless vowel.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: I like the explanation, which explains the intent. One note on &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. I suspect that in the &#039;voiceless time&#039; in between vowels that are different, you are expressing a &#039;voiceless vowel glide&#039;. If you don&#039;t turn off the vocal cords, the sound you get is /kowa/, where the /w/ is the glide. It is this glide that we are trying to &#039;devoice&#039; with the &#039; , because if the glide were audibly voiced, it would be impossible to distinguish &amp;quot;*koa&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;koua&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;ko,ua&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Mathematical nit:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &#039;tanjo&#039; means &#039;trigonometric tangent&#039;, how do we say &#039;geometric tangent&#039;? Why are the trigonometric functions given gismu rather than being handled by something in MEX? If &#039;tangent&#039;, why not &#039;Riemann zeta&#039;, or &#039;factorial&#039;? -------- Bob: We could generalize &amp;quot;tanjo&amp;quot; to include both, but I suspect that you can do a short tanru for &#039;geometric tangent&#039;, but not for &#039;trigonometric tangent&#039;. The primary reason for including both &amp;quot;sinso&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tanjo&amp;quot; was so the concepts, as opposed to the mathematical functions/operations themselves could be talked about. Trigonometric functions are basic to mathematics and many other fields - not all purely scientific - as wave-forms (shapes), yet in English we can only talk about these in terms of their mathematical function &#039;names&#039;. You could make a tanru like square-triangle-ke-opposite-ce&#039;o-adjacent-ke-side-ratio (no, I won&#039;t make the lujvo), which captures the original intent. But a non-mathematician - say an artist - can talk in Lojban about &#039;tangent curve&#039; (tanjykru) without knowing the mathematical basis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the others that are excluded - lack of usage frequency, or any metaphorical advantage outside of one field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Another book for the list, too simple for you probably but I would recommend it to people who want to understand Lojban&#039;s underlying basis: Semantics, by Geoffrey Leech. (Penguin Books, 1974, no ISDN.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s a simple introduction to the subject in plain language, and much of the explication in the central chapters reads like a point-by-point explanation of Lojban grammatical structures -- though without reference to Lojban, of course! --------&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John: Here&#039;s my proposal for a super-simple le&#039;avla algorithm:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojbanize the word to be &#039;borrowed&#039; by the methods used for cmene.&lt;br /&gt;
# Convert all y&#039;s to some other vowel or to a vocalic consonant.&lt;br /&gt;
# Modify the ending to be a vowel, either by dropping a final consonant or by adding an extra vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
# Modify the beginning to be a consonant, either by adding a extra consonant or dropping an initial vowel.&lt;br /&gt;
# Choose a gismu (not a rafsi) that categorizes the le&#039;avla into a &amp;quot;topic area&amp;quot;. Replace the final vowel of the gismu with a vocalic &#039;r&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Prefix the modified gismu to produce the final le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
spaghetti -&amp;gt; cidjrspageti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;maple tree -&amp;gt; tricrmeipli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;maple sugar -&amp;gt; saktrmeipli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;mathematical integral -&amp;gt; cmacrnintegra or cmacrntegra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;brie -&amp;gt; cirlrbri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;cobra -&amp;gt; sincrkobra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;quark -&amp;gt; saskrkuarka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;iambic -&amp;gt; pemcrniambo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Good proposal, and it appears to generate good words, so people can use it for now (note that in step 5., you may have to use an &amp;quot;n&amp;quot; instead of an &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;, though, to avoid a doubled letter). It takes only minor modifications to allow this to be used with rafsi (I think). You glue the rafsi on in almost the same way, but always use a gluing vocalic consonant with a 3-letter rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, this ends our biggest issue yet - and in only 6 weeks turnaround!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Map to LogFest 90 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You need to get to Interstate 66, on the West side of Washington D.C., just outside of its &#039;Beltway&#039; freeway as shown on the map below. For those who attended in previous years, our exit from the freeway is now a cloverleaf, so the exit from the freeway is different, and Nutley St. has been shifted near our house, so it will look much different.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the West on I-66, take Exit 17, Nutley St. going South (to your right). This exit did not really exist last year, though it was possible to play games going through the Vienna Metro Station parking lot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Taking the southbound exit to your right you want to enter Nutley St. (not the Metro parking lot). You need to get over to the left lane fairly quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a traffic light one block away from the overpass (Swanee Lane on the left). You will see a grassy slope on your left ahead, and a large office building behind some trees ahead on your right. A very short block later (opposite the office building), there is a left turn lane. You turn left here on Hermosa Dr. Go to the end of this street - only about 3 houses, and turn left on Beau Ln. Bob &amp;amp; Nora&#039;s house will be the first non-corner house, directly opposite the cross-street Suteki Dr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the East - Exit the Beltway for I-66 Westbound &#039;Front Royal&#039;. You will go about 1 1/2 miles and take Exit 17 - Nutley St., which is the first exit possible after leaving the Beltway. There is a very long ramp - stay on it, and take Nutley St. South which exits the ramp just after the overpass. You will join with Nutley St. and must move left quickly to merge. Thereafter, get in the left lane, and follow the instructions in the last paragraph of From the West section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Some More Logo Proposals ===&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_11_moi&amp;diff=124081</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_11_moi&amp;diff=124081"/>
		<updated>2020-08-13T23:00:35Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax&lt;br /&gt;
VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge forthe product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 11 - March 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as lalojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logicalhuman language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes. Donors are notified at the end of each year of your total deductible donations. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement. See news below regarding contributions and donations via credit card, or via checks drawn on non-US banks.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue contains a complete news section. As noted below, those of you receiving Ju&#039;i Lobypli will no longer be receiving le lojbo karni, since the contents will be redundant. Also below is a series of articles relating in some way to the value of Lojban. Athelstan and Bob compare Lojban and Esperanto. Robert Gorsch reports on his Semiotics courseat St. Mary&#039;s College in California, the first academic course significantly incorporating Lojban into its curriculum.His bibliography, and Ralph Dumain&#039;s annotated bibliography on language and thought, are included. There is also anarticle by David Morrow on using Lojban in writing fiction, Lojban text is by Michael Helsem, including the first samples of original Lojban poetry, and a variety of letters and responses. ko xamgu lifri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News							       --3&lt;br /&gt;
   Finances, 1989 Financial Report, Master Card/Visa Now Accepted--3&lt;br /&gt;
   1990	Plans set by la	lojbangirz. Board - Textbook, Dictionary, LogFest, Logo, Grants	  --5&lt;br /&gt;
   1990	Priorities					       --6&lt;br /&gt;
   Research and	Development - Grammar, Parser Status, pc to Visit DC, Transformational Grammar --6&lt;br /&gt;
   Growth and Publicity	- Continued Growth, International Publicity, Computer Networks	  --9&lt;br /&gt;
   Education - New Classes Starting			      --10&lt;br /&gt;
   International News					      --10&lt;br /&gt;
   Products and	Prices - New Lojban Tape, Hypercard Mac	LogFlash, lujvo-Making Program,&lt;br /&gt;
      Papers Offered, 3	1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes,	Book Plans, LogFlash Porting  --11&lt;br /&gt;
   News	(with Comments)	About the Institute		      --15&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto and Lojban - How many	rules are enough? by Athelstan--16&lt;br /&gt;
   On Comparing	Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier      --20&lt;br /&gt;
An Introductory	College	Course in Semiotics Using Lojban, by Robert Gorsch --25&lt;br /&gt;
   Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier	  --26&lt;br /&gt;
   Course Outline and Bibliography			      --33&lt;br /&gt;
Bibliography on	Language and Thought, by Ralph Dumain	      --36&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing, by David C.	Morrow--39&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska, all by Michael Helsem		      --40&lt;br /&gt;
   Self-Description, haiku, 3 limericks, and Free Verse	      --41&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			      --45&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Arthur Brown, jyjym., Eric Williams --56&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Reprints from The Washington Post and San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner, Reference Outline of Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
      Grammar, Some Proposed Logos&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to remind people that, if you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files(including things for JL publication) to Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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You can join the Lojban news-group by sending your mailing address to:&lt;br /&gt;
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and traffic to the news-group can be sent to:&lt;br /&gt;
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Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
IMPORTANT&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have not received JL10 (and expected it), please let us know. JL10 and LK11 were mailed in mid-December,but there are still some people known not to have received it. If you are one, we&#039;ll resend the issue. If you&#039;re not sure, JL10 contained discussions of Lojban poetry and a lot of Lojban text, including Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki&#039;s The Open Window. We apologize to those of you who did not hear from us for a long while due to the very slow mail (and our other, more normal, delays).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Our finances suffered a significant blow due to the serious delays in US Postal delivery of JL10. We paid for the issue in December, but have not received income to cover the cost until this month. Even now, we have money in the bank primarily because of Jeff Prothero, and Nora and me, each maintaining balances over $1000, thus in effect supporting la lojbangirz. via interest-free loans. I don&#039;t like this situation, partly because Nora and I don&#039;t have the money to spare. But I also dislike the conflict of interest of being the principal financial source at the same time that I&#039;m trying to serve your interests as President of la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some good decisions have resulted from our financial pain, though. We have now set up a credit account with our printer, who is our largest expense. And we have advanced the publication date for a Lojban textbook and dictionary(you&#039;ll see why this helps our finances in a little bit).&lt;br /&gt;
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The la lojbangirz. Board has decided to add an incentive for those who are paying for materials and maintaining a positive balance, as well as for those who have contributed to the textbook development by studying the language now.Thus, starting 1 April, if your account balance is positive, we will be giving a 20% discount on orders for software,the cassette tape (see below), and our books when they are published, provided that either you prepay your order (or have enough in your balance to cover the order) or you are an active level 3 subscriber.&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you contributing what you feel the Lojban materials are worth to you? Please help!&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         1989 Financial    Report&lt;br /&gt;
                        The    Logical    Language Group,    Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
                         (Numbers rounded to nearest $)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Contributions            $7988&lt;br /&gt;
    Donations            $7633&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                  $50&lt;br /&gt;
                     ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Income               $15671&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Printing and Publications    $5644&lt;br /&gt;
    Non-administrative Postage    $1904&lt;br /&gt;
    Office Supplies             $494&lt;br /&gt;
    LogFest    89             $394&lt;br /&gt;
    Advertising/Publicity/Noreascon    III$1603&lt;br /&gt;
    Telephone            $1240&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                 $192&lt;br /&gt;
    Administrative Expenses    $519&lt;br /&gt;
    Legal Expenses           $4100&lt;br /&gt;
                ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Total Admin. &amp;amp; Legal   $4619           29% of expenses&lt;br /&gt;
                      _______&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Expenses               $16090&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Loss             (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For comparison:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                      1988 Summary (Incorporated + Unincorporated)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            Income               $6776.72&lt;br /&gt;
            Expenses               $8605.97&lt;br /&gt;
               including Administrative    Expenses:&lt;br /&gt;
               $452.42 or 7% of    income&lt;br /&gt;
            Net    Loss             ($1829.25)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assets                 Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cash in    bank account   $666.02     Subscriber Refundable Balances     ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
Undeposited checks     $189.70&lt;br /&gt;
Estimated Value    of Inventory$1260.30&lt;br /&gt;
              ________                __________&lt;br /&gt;
Net Assets          $2116.02     Net Liabilities    ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                        Estimated Net Worth      ($557.04)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscription Accounts as of 31 March 1990 ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 811 names. Of these, 644 were currently active (level0 or above); the rest were either deleted by request, or because mailings were returned with no forwarding address, orare those that have asked to only receive product announcements when the textbook is ready. Known readership is about50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single subscriptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 40-50% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Thisvaries by 10-20% each mailing due to those whose balances drop below 0 and who then repay us. Only 3% of the level 0recipients have positive balances.&lt;br /&gt;
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As of 31 March, there were 95 subscribers at level 3, 161 at level 2, 48 at level 1, 327 at level 0, 11 press reviewers,and 32 at level B for a total of 676.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
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gismu lists 526&lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash 122&lt;br /&gt;
flash cards 23&lt;br /&gt;
Lessons beyond Lesson 1 88&lt;br /&gt;
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54 persons have donated a total of $12935.78 since we started through 1 January 1990. During 1989, Bob &amp;amp; Nora donated $3203.02; Jeff Prothero donated $2245.68; others donated a net of $2543.45. $4099.68 of Bob, Nora, and Jeff&#039;s donations were applied to legal bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
128 persons have net positive voluntary balances&lt;br /&gt;
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478 persons have net negative voluntary balances. This is the principal cause of our worsening financial position.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Master Card/Visa Now Accepted ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We have arranged to be able to accept contributions to voluntary balances and donations on your Master Card orVisa, effective immediately. This is an experimental program; we&#039;ll see how much it is used. We have to pay a fee of6% on each transaction, and will be passing that fee on to your balance. We also have to pay a minimum fee of $15.00per month for the service, even if there are no transactions; thus, our continuing this service is dependent on whetheryou use it.&lt;br /&gt;
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As with most mail-order charge systems, we need your card number and type, expiration date, name as it shown on thecard, and signature, to process your charge. We can accept telephone orders on your credit card if you follow it upwith a signed authorization. We have to be sure to follow the rules carefully, especially at first, because small mailorder firms are considered high risk for fraud, and are carefully watched.&lt;br /&gt;
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We hope that providing this service makes it easier for some of you to contribute to your balances and/or to donate support to la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== 1990 Plans set by la lojbangirz. Board ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The la lojbangirz. Board had its first meeting since LogFest to approve the above financial report, and to set the priorities for our activities during 1990. We were aided significantly by the responses to the questionnaire sent out with LK11 and JL10 (we&#039;re still interested in getting these responses if you haven&#039;t yet sent yours in).&lt;br /&gt;
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The following paragraphs discuss the major priorities that were discussed. The list of priorities is summarized at the end of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
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Textbook - Our numbers of active students (level 3) has topped 100, and at the current rate, will exceed 200 this year even with no textbook. Given that the current draft textbook lessons are already 300 pages long, printing costs for the year for draft lessons alone could exceed $2000. I&#039;ve gotten an estimate that would allow us to publish a textbook for probably around $3000-4000 for 1000 copies. Mailing books is also cheaper than mailing individual lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Adding in postage and overhead, we will probably be charging a base price of $12-$15, with the discount mentioned above for those with positive balances; this will exceed our costs enough to help pay for our other activities. Yet it is much cheaper than the approximately $23 we have to now charge for draft lessons - and we make no money on these. We think we can break even with about 250 paid textbook sales. Can we sell that many books? That&#039;s up to all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most important, your questionnaire responses indicate that when we publish a textbook, many more of you will then start learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dictionary - Lest anyone think that they have no influence over the decision-making process in la lojbangirz., your questionnaire responses have caused a major change in our plans (alas, we&#039;ve heard from less than 30 of you, only half of last years&#039; response - but we&#039;ll take what ever feedback we get). Whereas only a few months ago, we planned not to start producing a dictionary until we had a significant body of users of the language. Linguists believe that a dictionary is supposed to describe a language as it is used, not prescribe &#039;how it&#039;s supposed to be&#039;. Many of you are apparently unconvinced of this argument, and your questionnaires indicated that you wanted the textbook AND the dictionary done prior to learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve talked to several of you who so responded. Those placing a high priority on a dictionary apparently are not waiting for a &amp;quot;Webster&#039;s Unabridged&amp;quot;; rather, you want an easy to use word-list, more complete in its definitions than our current gismu lists, and a feeling that the language is sufficiently stable that we have the confidence to publish a book instead of Xeroxed handouts. You want enough examples therein so that you can see how words are made, how place structures are determined, etc. I think we can do this much.&lt;br /&gt;
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We had already planned to republish the gismu list later this year with better place structure definitions. We also are working hard on a good cmavo definition list, as we approach our initial baseline of the grammar. When I totalled the expected page count for gismu lists, cmavo lists, machine grammar definition, and explanatory materials on how to use these, the result was enough to compile the entire set of reference data into a book. It should take relatively little extra work to organize this book as a reference dictionary, so that is what we plan to do. The result should be available late this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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The dictionary, like the textbook, will be a limited first edition. We expect it to have a short life, perhaps 1-2 years, before being republished in a significantly expanded version (the first edition won&#039;t be obsolete then, but later editions will presumably be much expanded and perhaps better presented, as we learn from the first attempt). As with the textbook, we will be pushing for advance orders, due to our finances.&lt;br /&gt;
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LogFest - LogFest 90 is scheduled for the third weekend in June this year; including the Friday and Monday for some activities. I&#039;ve added air conditioning to our main meeting rooms so that the expected larger-than-ever crowd can be comfortable.&lt;br /&gt;
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The themes for the meeting will be learning the language and getting involved. I hope to have review draft copies of the textbook by then for people to examine. We will be discussing how each of you can study Lojban on your own or with others, and Athelstan will show how easy it is to give an introductory presentation on the language.&lt;br /&gt;
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We will have several short sessions where people can join us in Lojban conversation, or just listen in to learn that the language CAN be spoken.&lt;br /&gt;
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Most important, we intend to discuss and possibly approve the trial grammar baseline, enabling the textbook to be published and verifying that the language development truly is completed.&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope many of you will be able to attend. As in previous years, we have sleeping room for at least a dozen people inside, and will set up tents outside as necessary (bring sleeping bags if possible). If you bring your family, they can either get involved, or go sightseeing in Washington DC. We are 2 blocks from the Metro, which runs straight into all of the attraction of the capital.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can call me for details at 703-385-0273. Next issue will include a map on how to get here, and whatever final plans have been made by then. Much of what goes on at a Logfest is determined by the interests of the people who are there. Local people come for part of the weekend, or even drop in for a few hours. We have moved the annual business meeting of la lojbangirz. to Sunday morning, when relatively few people are around, after finding that a slow-moving meeting last year disrupted the lively excitement of Logfest.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is no charge to attend LogFest, but we are asking people attending to contribute perhaps $20 for the weekend, or $10 a day, to help defray food costs and other expenses. (We&#039;ll be happy to accept more - our expenses for Logfest run much higher than this. Contributions in excess of $20 will be considered donations.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Logo - As part of our effort to generate publicity, several people have suggested that we adopt a logo for la lojbangirz. We&#039;ve had suggestions from several people, and especially from Jamie Bechtel and Kit Archer. We are running the sketches thus far submitted for your comments, and asking you to contribute your own ideas (or even draw them up if you can - but others can do the drawing if you have more creativity than artistic talent).&lt;br /&gt;
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We will put the question of a logo to the LogFest attendees&lt;br /&gt;
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Grants - Now that we have our non-profit status, we will be starting to investigate possible grant opportunities. Athelstan and I have identified several possible sources or small amounts of support, and we want to find out how much work is involved in obtaining such grants before committing our limited people and money resources towards pursuing them.&lt;br /&gt;
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We will be concentrating on grants that will help us improve our teaching materials, translate them into foreign languages and promote the involvement of non-U.S. Lojbanists to improve our cultural balance. We will also try to obtain grants for developing some of the ideas we&#039;ve had for using Lojban in language education, and in such classes as Robert Gorsch describes below. Finally, we will seek support for developing some of the linguistics research efforts using the language that were the original goal for the Loglan Project.&lt;br /&gt;
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We will probably not seek major grants such as from the National Science Foundation at this point. We believe that we need to establish credibility as an academic effort, attract researchers who know how to get such grants, and possibly affiliate with another organization to ensure accountability. We also need to show that we can work within the academic peer review system, and of course, prove that we can manage grant money wisely. I believe that Jim Brown failed to get grants for his Loglan work after he left the University of Florida primarily because he never established this kind of outside accountability. We should do much better - we&#039;ve had a couple of years of practice now in demonstrating that we are accountable to you, our supporters.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== 1990 Priorities ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The Board adopted the following priorities as its policy for day-to-day business activities (i.e. spending money and receiving &#039;official&#039; support). We ask that people work to support these goals. The Board recognizes, of course, that we are a volunteer-based organization and everyone should be free to work with or on the language in the way that he or she chooses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Maintenance of a stable business posture, fulfilling legal requirements (including lawsuit-related), filling orders, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# Producing timely newsletters of comparable quality to current practice.&lt;br /&gt;
# Responding to correspondents, especially submittals of Lojban text, in such a degree as to support continued self- learning. Supporting classes started by others, and Athelstan&#039;s DC-area class.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition textbook covering about half the language (the portion most used in writing and conversation), and supporting this textbook with a cassette tape.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition reference dictionary including revised, updated, and preliminary baselines of grammar, cmavo, gismu place structures, rafsi, synopsis, and additional useful materials as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preliminary research in grantsmanship leading to later decisions whether to actually seek grants.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing updated and new software and other educational materials unrelated to book publishing above, including the Lojban parser.&lt;br /&gt;
# Additional translation efforts by key people (particularly Board members).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Research and Development ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The primary R&amp;amp;D activities in the last couple of months have been attempting to resolve two of the four open grammar issues discussed in the last issue: negation and attitudinal indicators.&lt;br /&gt;
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A proposal on the latter is out for review at this writing. If you are level 3 or otherwise knowledgeable of the attitudinal issue, and want to participate in the review, let me know and I&#039;ll send a copy. The final proposal (incorporating any comments by then) will be printed in JL12, and any decision will be approved at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have much of my time in the last few months working on a thorough treatment of negation which incorporates hours of discussion among Nora, Athelstan, pc, and me. The discussion is being written somewhat in the style of the textbook lessons, with dozens of examples, and also includes explanation of logical connectives. I hope to involve as many people as possible in reviewing the result, which I hope will appear in JL12. The entirety may be too long, so I may have to abridge it or send it separately to level 3 people only - it depends on our finances, and your expressions of interest in the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
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Negation is likely to be the last &#039;big&#039; language issue that can be reasonably understood without knowing the language; the issues to be resolved are semantic, and thus not much dependent on Lojban&#039;s grammar and word lists. Your ability to contribute will depend more on your understanding of how negation works in natural language than on how Lojban works; the object is to make sure that we have the means to cover everything involved in negation in a logically consistent manner. The grammar of negation in Lojban is quite simple, and easily adapted once we are sure that we understand the problem. We may be trying to get linguists not otherwise involved in the language to review our results for correctness and completeness.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other two big issues are tense grammar and MEX. I suspect that our tense system will be among the hardest things to teach in its entirety to new people, since so few people realize how much hidden tense structure there is in natural languages - all made open and optional in Lojban. pc, as an expert in tense logic, will be the primary reviewer of the proposal. Others will have trouble getting involved in this one; the proposal will not be written up until the textbook lessons are written, although its essence will be evident in the annotated sections of the machine grammar dealing with tense.&lt;br /&gt;
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The MEX issue is one mostly of philosophy - whether to try to make MEX comprehensive, or to make it easy to use. Until we have people skilled enough in the language to try using MEX, we won&#039;t really be able to test our design. We may have to omit the esoteric parts of MEX from the 5-year grammar baseline, or else to simply recognize that MEX grammar is likely to change after that point. (I favor the former - the need for a baseline is to ensure that there is a stable language for people to learn. If we know in advance that an area will be significantly revised, the stability is illusionary.) A possibility to be considered is that we put two competing MEX grammars into the language and to see which survives.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other than writing up the proposals, the major work to be done is reflecting the changes in cmavo lists and in the machine grammar. The attitudinal proposal affects the cmavo list a lot, with no grammar changes. The negation change is primarily semantic, with minimal impact on either grammar or cmavo list. The tense proposal is a regularizing of the already radical approach that I took in my redesign two years ago; it has been taught conceptually to the DC-area class, and what remains (other than pc&#039;s verification) is to make sure that the machine grammar completely reflects the concept.&lt;br /&gt;
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The MEX decision will affect very little or quite a lot. If the status quo is deemed acceptable, there will be few changes. If there is a strong move towards an easier-to- use MEX, then the grammar will have to be substantially rewritten in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
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In short, things are moving along well towards our intended June decision point.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Parser Status ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Jeff Taylor hasn&#039;t had a lot of time to spare for the parser, and has put his emphasis on the cmavo list instead. This isn&#039;t a problem, because most of what remains to be done is dependent on the decisions to be made in the four open areas discussed above. The parser worked fine on the text samples in JL10; what remains is to incorporate the results of the pending design changes - primarily the final tense design which is substantially embedded in the hand-coded lexer. We&#039;ve reduced the priority of the parser to make sure that we get the textbook and dictionary done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
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An alternative possibility for the parser has recently shown up. Doug Landauer, who along with Sheldon Linker did much of the germinal Loglan machine grammar work in the 70s has volunteered to investigate and to possibly write a parser generator especially tailored for Lojban grammar work. Key aspects - for those who know parser terminology - are that the new generator, which would replace our YACC- based program, will be able to look-ahead more than 1 &#039;token&#039; - the exact number of look-aheads hasn&#039;t yet been decided. We would also try to have the generator save tables that allow for better processing of elidable terminators.&lt;br /&gt;
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It isn&#039;t clear what such a parser tool would mean to Lojban. It could allow us to make significant simplifications in the grammar, such as perhaps re- coalescing the variety of logical connectives into a smaller and easier to learn set. It would certainly allow much of the hand-coded lexer routine in the parser to be replaced by table-driven rules in the automatically- generated portion of the parser, eliminating several of the invisible &#039;machine lexemes&#039; that allow the parser to emulate human grammar analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ll report next issue on whether Doug&#039;s researches of the topic have led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== pc to Visit DC ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Just about the time this newsletter is mailed, pc will be visiting Bob and Nora in the DC area for a long weekend. Although he&#039;s coming for other reasons, pc has budgeted a significant amount of time for us to work together on resolving the open grammar issues. Since pc is probably the most expert of all in the combination of logic, linguistics, old Loglan design and current Lojban implementation, his review and agreement will set the tone for the decision-making to take place in June.&lt;br /&gt;
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In addition to going over the 4 biggies, we will also be discussing place structures of gismu, textbook plans, and the style to be used in producing the dictionary. We&#039;ll probably slip in a little Lojban conversation, too, although pc has just recently resumed studying the vocabulary after lapsing for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Transformational Grammar ====&lt;br /&gt;
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It is a common myth among linguists that the Loglan/Lojban project ignores and/or runs counter to the various transformational grammar theories developed by Noam Chomsky. Transformational grammar theory has dominated the field of linguistics, especially in the U.S., since shortly after Jim Brown started the Loglan project. Jim Brown lends credence to these myths by attacking some of Chomsky&#039;s ideas in the new edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
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Contrary to this myth, the Lojban redevelopment team has tried to bring ideas in from a variety of linguistic sources, while trying to make sure the language meets whatever criteria make a natural language &#039;natural&#039; and learnable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Briefly, transformational grammar (tg) theory says that there is an underlying structure to all natural languages (called &#039;deep structure&#039;) which is often well-hidden from our conscious thought. The argument for deep structure is based on the fact that children learn language so quickly and easily, and before they understand anything about grammar, that some amount of &#039;innate grammar&#039; must be genetically coded. What we perceive as the widely varying grammars of everyday natural language are &#039;surface structures&#039; based on transformations from this innate &#039;deep grammar&#039;. These transformations are then what is actually learned when we learn language. From this theory, if Lojban is truly &#039;different&#039; from natural languages in some basic way such that tg theory does not apply, then it cannot be a natural language. Arguing in the reverse direction, if such a &#039;deep structure&#039; of Lojban can be found, and the language indeed turns out to be speakable by, and teachable to young children, then the deep structure of Lojban must be tied to that of the natural languages. This has implications for the validity of a Sapir-Whorf test, while allowing Lojban to serve as a test bed for tg theory developments. Meanwhile, the extreme simplicity of Lojban&#039;s grammar means that its consistency with tg theory may say something basic about the deep structure of natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Esperanto and most other artificial languages have generally been of no interest to tg linguists, since their grammars usually are merely simplifications of standard European language grammars that provide no useful basis for research.&lt;br /&gt;
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pc did a simple transformational study of old Loglan back in the 1970&#039;s and found nothing unusual. Now, Lojbanist Greg Higley has been more thoroughly researching the applicability of tg theory to Lojban using the current language definition.&lt;br /&gt;
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Greg&#039;s results are still preliminary, but he has found that the basic Lojban sentence structure is indeed consistent with tg theory. Furthermore, he says, in a recent letter to Bob, that the surface structure of Lojban is nearly transparent: &amp;quot;It is very rare for a language to have the ability to display its deep structure while maintaining grammaticalness, especially in complex sentences, but Lojban does this admirably.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Greg is trying to ensure that his research lives up to academic standards, and that his results will be publishable. If so, Lojban may significantly gain in credibility within the community of linguists, and the goal of using Lojban as a vehicle for experimental linguistics will be greatly forwarded.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;re trying to identify within our community, people with sufficient training in tg theory to assist in reviewing Greg&#039;s results, to the extent that he desires our assistance. Identify such people will also be important to us in the event that we decide to seek research support based on Greg&#039;s efforts. Let Bob know if you want to participate in reviewing Greg&#039;s work.&lt;br /&gt;
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(A good understanding of Lojban grammar and/or principles of transformational grammars will probably be vital - Greg&#039;s work so far makes very technical statements about Lojban grammar which would be hard to evaluate without such knowledge. Indeed, the sophistication of Greg&#039;s work is extremely heartening; he has demonstrated a sophisticated and thus far error-free understanding of Lojban grammar, yet is totally self-taught from the draft textbook lessons and other materials. Readers may recall that Greg skillfully found a subtle but important error in the textbook lessons, as he reported in JL10).&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an exciting prospect for Lojban, one which heightens our sense of contributing to our understanding of language. We&#039;ll try to have more on Greg&#039;s work in one of the next two issues of JL.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Growth and Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Our growth in the last few months has been phenomenal, especially since it is almost entirely due to word-of-mouth advertising. We&#039;ve added about 50 people since the start of the year, with new contacts averaging more than 1 every 2 days.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some of these new people have joined us due to several of you giving talks to groups about Lojban, and some are due to distributions of brochures at conventions. I want to expressly thank all of you who are serving as emissaries of Lojban in this way. The list is getting too long to name every convention or talk we have collectively given; you&#039;ve ensured a Lojbanic presence at some half-dozen science fiction conventions in the last 3 months that I know of, and probably as many that I don&#039;t know about. Keep it up!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had good response following an October ad in the Mensa national bulletin donated by a Lojbanist, which has led to a follow-up article in the Mensa SIG publication &#039;Science Quest&#039;. We got a scattering of responses from around the country following Don Oldenburg&#039;s newspaper article (reprint enclosed with this issue), and the follow- up Copley News Service release, and radio interviews with various stations in the US, Canada, and United Kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The various press releases led to a contact with reporter Dominique Schroder of the French news agency ASP (their equivalent of the AP). After a pleasant several hours of interview and discussion, her story was released in several languages. It is known to have been printed (in French) in the Quebec Soleil during February. Lojbanist Andre Bergeron saw the article, contacted the paper, and convinced them to print our address a few days later, and we&#039;ve had 5 new responses (4 of them in French, leading us to test our network for multi-language correspondence support).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have no reports of other publications of Dominique&#039;s story, mostly because it did not include our address, and because it would have appeared primarily in publications serving locales where we don&#039;t have a lot of existing people who would have noticed and reported it. Some of these people will eventually find us by contacting ASP, but we mostly gained international name recognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our most significant recent growth has been through the computer networks. With the assistance of Lojbanist Eric Raymond, we have an international news forum on the Inter- net/Usenet/uucp circuit, which also can tie in to Compuserve (see page 2 for instructions on how to join this group or to send messages to me). The network presence has attracted the attention of a couple of dozen new people, and more importantly has allowed us to respond quickly to people&#039;s questions. (Now all I need is a connection to the net here in DC, so I don&#039;t have to spend money on long distance bills to Eric&#039;s computer near Philadelphia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve also been able to respond to inquiries on the Usenet linguistics newsgroup &#039;sci.lang&#039; about Loglan and Lojban. We have even profited from Jim Brown&#039;s advertising efforts, as people who have bought Jim&#039;s book inquire on the net looking for others working with the language; almost invariably, people who find out that there are two groups and that our group is larger, more organized, and supports a public domain version of the language, end up choosing to study Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same effect has occurred on Compuserve, where a copy of our brochure was placed in the Foreign Language Education forum. This has brought us several new people, including some who have started using the AMRAD BBS to contact us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve gained no new people as a result, yet, but Mark Manning published an article reviewing Lojban in his science fiction &#039;fanzine&#039; Tand #2, last fall. Since the article included several misunderstandings, Mark agreed to print a rebuttal written by Athelstan and Bob, which just appeared in Tand #3 a couple of weeks ago. There is the possibility of continuing dialog in the magazine, which relies on letters of comment on previous issues for much of its content.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A high percentage of new respondents have been moving quickly from level 0 to levels 1-3, and most of them are paying for their materials. The count of level 3&#039;s has been growing at 10% per month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My only complaint is that filling orders takes a lot of time away from other Lojban activities, especially because I personalize the response to many of the people I send to with information about other Lojbanists nearby, etc. HEAR THIS! I want to continue to have THIS complaint!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Education ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve believed that Lojban has a major potential to contribute to various aspects of education. Finally, this has been proven. Dr. Robert Gorsch of St. Mary&#039;s College in California used Lojban as a major component of an intensive course in Semiotics taught during the intersession in January. The course proved popular and quite successful; a surprising number of these very bright students were not aware of Lojban OR Esperanto, or the various other attempts to invent a language throughout history. The class will be expanded to a full semester course for next school year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The course is described in detail by Dr. Gorsch below, including an outline and bibliography for others who are interested in Lojban and Semiotics (which Gorsch says has been heavily influenced by the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis), and for others who would like to develop similar courses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise, education has been a bit of a disappointment these past couple of months. After months of promises from the organizers, the New York and Boston classes are no closer to starting than last fall, when we gave talks en- route home from Worldcon. In Boston, things have been complicated by the fact that both of our organizers are unemployed and job hunting in a bad labor market; one has a new baby and no telephone making his life even more complicated; there is some evidence that things will eventually come together there. Boston people at least have a place to meet, since everyone seems to find MIT a good location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can&#039;t say what is going on in New York. The principal hang-up seems to be difficulty in finding a place that everyone is willing to travel to, and a day to meet. I&#039;ve suggested that they divide into multiple groups which study on their own and get together to interchange on a less frequent basis, or by telephone. The same suggestion might be appropriate for San Francisco and Los Angeles metro areas, which also have large, geographically disperse groups of Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Things are going much better in the self-study arena. The best evidence of this is the collection of material written by self-taught Lojbanist Michael Helsem. I&#039;m also including with his writings a sample of the feedback that we gave him, thus showing that we support those of you who try to learn Lojban on your own, and also that WE WANT YOU TO SEND YOUR ATTEMPTS AT USING THE LANGUAGE TO US, EVEN IF YOU DON&#039;T THINK THEY ARE VERY GOOD! Because Michael did so, his current Lojban is much improved. Moreover, WE learned a lot from his attempts, which will in turn improve the textbook when it comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== New Classes Starting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While New York and Boston haven&#039;t yet jelled, we&#039;ve demonstrated further viability as a language here in DC and in Blacksburg VA, where new classes are starting and are being taught by graduates of the last set of classes. This is the best sign that our teaching was successful, that those who have studied the language have enough confidence to feel that they can lead a new group up to their skill level in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan is teaching a new DC-area class, under the auspices of the University of Maryland &#039;Free University&#039; Program. This program gives the class an on-campus meeting point, coincidentally in the foreign language education building. Unlike the first class, this class is only 8 weeks long with one 2-hour session per week. The students are not expected to master the vocabulary, and only the basics of the grammar will be covered. The lowered expectation takes the pressure off both students and instructor. The class will probably be followed up with an advanced class after people have learned more of the vo- cabulary. Eight students showed up for the first meeting, with a couple of additional people who didn&#039;t show up indicating that they want to join in late.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 2nd Blacksburg class will be taught by Karen Stein starting in April, after people are recruited at a local science fiction convention and the VA Tech campus. John Hodges, who taught the first class, is struggling under a full class load and a full-time job, but will be advising Karen as needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of the international news has been covered under &#039;Growth and Publicity&#039; above. We have gained significant numbers in Canada through the ASP story and other contacts, such that there could potentially be classes or group studies organized in Vancouver, Toronto, and Quebec.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ASP story is good news to Lojbanist John Negus, in Bessas, France. John is serving as our &#039;French correspondent&#039;, agreeing to serve as a local point of contact for any new French Lojbanists. John has also been making his own attempts to recruit new people, and has written a one-page description of Lojban emphasizing its international language aspects for his own distribution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The French language version of the brochure (translated by Andre Bergeron) has now been entered onto computer, just in time to receive an &#039;acid test&#039; by being distributed to the several French-speaking respondents to the ASP article. It will receive one more review pass before being printed up in bulk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Italian language brochure (translated by Silvia Romanelli), is being typed up. After Silvia reviews it, we will be printing bulk copies of it as well. Silvia has plans to actively recruit people in the Italian city of Asti, near her home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Board member Tommy Whitlock recently visited Germany on a personal trip. We don&#039;t yet have a German brochure, and the trip occurred during a university break period, but some 50 English brochures were distributed, and Tommy made contact with a couple of Lojbanists who are linguistics students in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will be attending the 1990 World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon) in Amsterdam, which takes place the last week of August. He will arrive prepared to give several talks at the convention and to distribute brochures in the 3 languages completed (and possibly German too, if we can find a translator who will get it done by then). (Athelstan is also brushing up on 6 languages at once besides Lojban, so that he can deal with people in their own language - a truly heroic endeavor!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will be spending about 4-6 weeks following Worldcon travelling around Europe by Eurorail, and eventually to Israel in October. He will be visiting &#039;friends&#039;, a label which includes every Lojbanist on the Continent that he can work into his itinerary. He specifically plans to make it to John Negus in France and Silvia Romanelli in Italy, and possibly to others in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Again, he will be giving talks on Lojban and mini-lessons everywhere he goes. Lojbanists who can organize sessions for him to give talks at will gain precedence on his itinerary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are a European Lojbanist who wants Athelstan to stop through for a visit, please let us know as soon as possible. We&#039;ll provide more details on his plans next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== International Finance ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have finally arranged with an international service firm, Deak International, to process currency exchanges for us with a corporate account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that we can now accept checks drawn in your country&#039;s currency as payment to contribute to your voluntary balance, or to donate to the project. The currency must be convertible to US dollars, and will be exchanged at the official rate. The service is MUCH cheaper than what it would cost you otherwise to send us a check. We pay a service charge of US$3.50 for each check (which we will charge against your voluntary balance since we charge people what it costs us, so please allow for it). Above all, PLEASE make sure that you keep any such check covered until it clears, which might take a few weeks - we are charged US$50.00 if Deak cannot collect on the check.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also now can accept contributions and donations via Master Card and Visa credit cards, as described above under &#039;Finance&#039;. We originally sought this service for our international customers as an alternative to sending US currency through the postal system, and hope that it is useful to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Products and Prices ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our emphasis these last few month has been on polishing up design features of the language, working towards the grammar baseline, rather than developing new products, but we do have a few, primarily due to the efforts of others among you who have helped me out. These include two computer programs, a cassette tape, and several technical papers of a length or of a more limited interest group such that we can&#039;t justify printing them in a JL issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== New Lojban Tape ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have finally made the long-promised cassette tape designed to accompany the first few lessons of the textbook. The tape was made on very short notice, since Robert Gorsch wanted to use it in his class described below (although a U.S. mail foul-up meant that it didn&#039;t get to him in time).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob, Nora, Athelstan, Tommy Whitlock, Sylvia Rutiser, and new Lojbanist David Young participated in the various pronunciation exercises and dialogues on the tape. The recording includes samples from the first three textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are announcing availability of this tape under rather restricted conditions. Because of our strained finances and the impending textbook rewrite, we cannot afford to mass produce the tape. Also, since the text associated with the tape is derived from the draft textbook lessons, it is fairly worthless to give the tape to anyone who doesn&#039;t have at least the first 3 draft textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we aren&#039;t mass producing the tape, Bob has to manually copy each tape that we distribute, which is not quick. And since the tape is not being widely distributed, we can&#039;t afford to put a lot of effort into polishing and editing it (although Lojbanist John Vengrouskie has vol- unteered to assist us in this, when we finally do so.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enough qualifications. The bottom line is that, for now at least, we will probably accept orders for the tape only from a) people who need the tape as examples for a group presentation they are giving on Lojban, and b) level 3 people who specifically ask for the tape. Among the latter, high priority will be given to paid orders, and to people who have been trying to use or write in the language or have otherwise contributed. I won&#039;t promise to fill unpaid orders at this point; we can&#039;t afford it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The price for the 60 minute cassette is $9.00, with a 20% discount ($7.20) as announced in &#039;finances&#039; above for people with positive balances who are either level 3 or who prepay their order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Hypercard Mac LogFlash ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi has written a Hypercard implementation of LogFlash for the MacIntosh which is available on special order. The program, being new, and on the Mac, has not undergone Nora&#039;s exhaustive testing program; it has, however, been tested by at least three users and found to be a worthwhile product.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main feature of the program, other than its Hypercard design that allows you to use the program for word look-ups as well as for testing, is that it interfaces with the standard MacIntosh speech generator. Thus, unlike Mac LojFlash, and other LogFlash versions, you can hear the word on request. This makes this program especially valuable to newer Lojbanists who are unfamiliar with the sound of the language, although the Hypercard implementation is apparently noticeably slower than Mac LojFlash, especially on the older and slower models.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because Hypercard Mac LogFlash is of comparable functionality with Mac LojFlash, we are offering it at the same price - $20. Since the program is still in a late development stage, we will include in this price 6 months of update support: free updates will be provided during that time if a new release provides meaningful new functionality (and of course if any bugs need fixing); our normal update price is $6 for each update (with the 20% discount per above).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are offering the program for now under similar restrictive terms as the cassette tape - priority will be given to advance paid orders, to level 3 subscribers, and to people needing the program for a demonstration; no guarantees that we can fill unpaid orders.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are also offering the 20% discount on both Mac teaching programs as described under &#039;finances&#039; above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== lujvo-Making Program ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora has pretty well tested her new lujvo-making program for PC/MS-DOS machines, and we&#039;re going to start offering it for sale now. The program, unlike LogFlash and its variations, does not use a ladder technique, nor is it solely a teaching program.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo-maker has two modes, one for reference, and one for drill. One mode allows you to type in up to 5 keywords from the list of gismu English keywords, and it will form the set of possible lujvo, listing up to 32 valid forms in order of highest &#039;score&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The scoring algorithm differs from both proposals included in the Synopsis - these latter failed the most important test of all - usability by a Lojbanist trying to make words &#039;on the fly&#039;. The new algorithm stresses word- length, with adjustments minimizing hyphens and consonant clusters. It generally selects the intuitive &#039;best word&#039; from the list, and at least can be predicted &#039;on the fly&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The drill mode selects a random tanru of 1 to 5 elements, and displays the English keywords. It then asks you to type in what you think is the &#039;best&#039; lujvo. When you respond, it displays the set of correct values, and tells you whether you chose a valid lujvo, one in the top few in the list, or optimally, the best lujvo on the list. At this point, it keeps no statistics, although we may eventually add such a function for research aimed at evaluating how well people learn rafsi and lujvo-making. For now, the program is fairly simple - not even requiring a users manual. Just start it up and follow the menus.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are offering lujvo-maker on a separate disk at this point for $10, with a 20% discount for those with positive balances etc., per &#039;finances&#039; above. At some point, we will probably offer it in combination with the random sen- tence generator on a single diskette.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unlike the above new products, there are no restrictions on ordering lujvo-maker; I can make copies fairly easily. The program is very effective at teaching lujvo-making, especially if used after or in conjunction with LogFlash 2, which teaches the rafsi independent of lujvo-making. After reaching 80% on LogFlash 2, it took me only about an hour of practice to regularly be able to predict either the top scoring lujvo, or at least one of the top 3 scorers. Since all lujvo forms based on the same root tanru have the same meaning, this is more than acceptable for everyday use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Technical Papers Offered ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over the last year or two, as many of you know, I have been building a linguistics reference library, and a Loglan/Lojban historical archive. Your correspondence over the two years amounts to about 4-5 feet of filing cabinet space. Most of this correspondence is short letters, questionnaire responses, etc., that are primarily of interest for statistical or historical purposes. Some of you, however, have written article length essays and comments, etc. reviewing some aspect of Lojban or linguistics. T. Peter Park, Paul Doudna, and Jim Carter have been especially prolific, and Michael Helsem has writ- ten more Lojban text than we can review and print in JL (I get a new letter every week or two. Keep it up, Michael!). For a while, I published almost anything printable in JL. We can&#039;t do so anymore. Readers want me to be selective about length, relevance to general interest, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The writings I&#039;m talking about are NOT low quality. In some cases, they are written for readers of a particular experience background that I don&#039;t think is representative. To give an example, a year ago Jeff Prothero wrote a proof of Lojban elidable-terminator disambiguity. It&#039;s only 1 page long, but if I added enough explanation of Jeff&#039;s terminology and its relationship to our standard usages, and also explained the point of the proof to those who are unfamiliar with the machine grammar design, the result might be a dozen pages - and since I&#039;m not sure that the proof is correct, or that people are interested, I can&#039;t use that much space on the article (nor can I spend the time writing the explanation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A similar reason explains why I&#039;ve never printed Jim Carter&#039;s descriptions of the evolving versions of his Loglan-derivative language. The text is too long, of insufficient general interest, and filled with vocabulary and usages that are peculiar to Jim&#039;s writing (and often contradicting our own terminology) to print in JL. But some among you want to read about other artificial language proposals, and Jim and others have given me their efforts presumably so that I can bring their ideas to a wider, interested, audience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I&#039;m going to try to do over the next couple of months is to assemble a list of such special papers that I think can be made available to the Lojban readership, and I&#039;ll include it as a separate page of ordering materials. I&#039;ll also put the oldest issues of JL and its predecessor newsletters on that list, freeing up space on the main order form for new products.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that I have a couple dozen such papers, ranging in length from 1 page to 75 (for Paul Doudna&#039;s detailed analyses of Loglan/Lojban gismu categories).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m going to start with a base price of 15 cents/page, which is my estimate of what it costs for special order printing and mailing of such papers. I will apply the 20% discount to these papers for advance paid orders - if we lose a little money on this, I&#039;ll consider it a well-spent reward for those who are supporting us with cash. So I can keep going on more normal orders, I will have to fill these orders on a time-available basis, unless you give me some time-dependent reason for rushing your order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we lose too much money on this service, or if it takes too much of my time, we&#039;ll have to raise the price or try something else, but I want to do something to bring more of these writings to interested readers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll try to start this service with the next JL issue. I&#039;m interested in anyone&#039;s comments about the idea, and how it might be made to work best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== 3 1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With my new 386/25 machine, I have a 3 1/4&amp;quot; disk drive, and can now offer PC/MS-DOS software in that format. For now, we&#039;ll charge the same price, since the higher cost of the diskettes is approximately countered by my not needing to use expensive disk mailers, and by slightly cheaper postage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Book Plans ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s the way I think things look for the textbook at this writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After I finish whatever needs to be done on the four open grammar issues, I will start working intensely on the textbook. First priority is to write up Athelstan&#039;s mini- lesson, which will serve as a new opening lesson. I may also revise the Overview for incorporation in the introduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have long planned to scrap the existing Overview as an introduction to the language for new people and to replace it with a derivative of one of T. Peter Park&#039;s outstanding efforts at overview-writing (these will be among the papers made available per the above discussion). T. Peter&#039;s overviews are heavy with examples and have a much more personable style than the stilted, fairly technical overview we distribute now. But the latter is useful for the textbook, perhaps blended into the mini-lesson write- up, because it covers the whole language, and defines our special usage vocabulary and jargon that is found throughout JL, the textbook, and all of our other writings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will then be revising the 6 existing lessons, probably breaking them up into smaller chunks - as many as 20. I&#039;ll try to add more examples, and to bring a student to a greater feeling of competence earlier in the text. Athelstan has people making good sentences after an hour mini-lesson; the textbook takes 2+ lessons to get to the same point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, I will finish the equivalent of Lessons 7, 8, and 9 of the textbook outline, using the same organization and lesson size that I develop for the first 6 lessons. Much of this material will come from the write-up on negation that I&#039;m putting together for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll put together a vocabulary list Appendix, Glossary, Index, and perhaps a couple of appendices on using the textbook more effectively for self-study and for classroom study. I&#039;d also like an appendix dealing with common errors made by new Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora will be assisting me by devising more examples - my main weakness in textbook writing and teaching is an inability to devise good examples to illustrate a particular point on demand. I will also be using examples out of the various writings that Lojbanists send me for review. This textbook will thus be a creation of many people, not just a few.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I said above, I want to have a draft finished by LogFest in mid-June. This is probably optimistic, since I haven&#039;t gotten started on it yet, but I think it will move quickly once I get going. (Now where have we heard this before!) But I&#039;ve made a commitment; the textbook, and the dictionary, will be done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the dictionary - the primary efforts to be done in prerequisite are the completion of the new cmavo list, which Jeff Taylor has been working on for several months, and a word by word review of expanded gismu place structures that I actually prepared about 8 months ago. These will form the core of the dictionary, which will be enhance by a data base of alternative English keyword equivalents, and entries for conversions and abstractions of the gismu and their corresponding lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven&#039;t yet figured out how I want to write such entries, but the first dictionary will be prepared with fairly mechanical definitions to make sure that it gets written. We&#039;ll then revise it based on your feedback on the First edition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll be adding in the (hopefully) baselined machine grammar and an explanation of how to use it, various supplementary lists, such as Lojbanizations of common names, an index of rafsi, etc., and a revision of the Synopsis, which belongs in a reference work. Probably to be added to a later edition will be a revised an completed grammar synopsis that I once started writing, now available as the partial &#039;grammar description&#039; we list on our order form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right now, I am hoping to sell each of these books for about $12-15, with the 20% discount ($10-12) for positive balances described under &#039;finances&#039; above. At least one person has pointed out that we probably should charge more, since quality technical paperbacks generally sell for $15- 20 nowadays. At this point, I&#039;m inclined to go the cheaper route. I want students and Lojbanists overseas to buy the books, and I want more people buying them, rather than having fewer people buying, and giving books away to the others because I don&#039;t want anyone who wants to learn the language to be deprived by an inability to afford the books.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another possibility I&#039;m considering is that the prices given above will be advance order prices only to repay all of you who have stuck with us over the years with a special lower price, and that within a few months after publi- cation, we will raise prices to start earning money in support of our other activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am noting people&#039;s requests for textbooks now, but don&#039;t have a mechanism in place to record advance orders, so please don&#039;t send &#039;orders&#039; yet. You CAN, of course, send money now to bring your balance positive before the textbook comes out, and to even put in enough to have paid for the &#039;advance order price&#039; needed for the 20% discount. A large number of people bringing their balances positive will probably lead to keeping textbook prices lower, because we&#039;ll have the money and orders to print more books, and to not have to take out a loan to pay for the printing. (We&#039;ll also accept your donations made specifically towards textbook publication, or towards paying for copies for people who legitimately cannot afford them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your feedback on our plans is important. Let me know your opinions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== LogFlash Porting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had volunteers to port LogFlash to CP/M, the Amiga, and the Apple II, during the last 3 months, all of which I&#039;ve tried to discourage: people who start this effort don&#039;t seem to finish it, and I&#039;d rather see people not waste their time on an incomplete effort. Perhaps a half dozen people have volunteered for each of the portings mentioned, and only one (an Amiga version by Carl Burke) got partially running. LogFlash is apparently surprisingly complex - 2000 lines of Turbo Pascal, and this will probably be increased later this year when we have longer English definitions for the gismu list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CP/M is the only porting possibility that seems meaningful; older Turbo-Pascal versions exist for CP/M so that conversion would be easy. Speed, small diskette sizes, and the infinite variety of terminal interfaces and diskette formats make a conversion a problematical investment of effort in the rapidly declining CP/M market.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Raymond had completed an 85% conversion of LogFlash to portable Unix C, using a Turbo-to-C translator that he is modifying as he goes to make sure that we can always generate working Pascal from the C and vice-versa. There have been hang-ups due to incompatible I/O between Turbo-Pascal and C; LogFlash uses &#039;random access&#039; to disk files, which is apparently difficult to match in C. Otherwise the project would be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volunteers who have significant amounts of time to contribute and a good knowledge of both C and Turbo Pascal can contact Eric on uucp/Internet at:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
eric@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the conversion is completed it can perhaps serve as a basis for portings to several other machines, given the attempt to maximize portability of the C code. If the porting is completed, we will consider making the C version the main &#039;baseline&#039; version. The problem with this is support, since neither Nora nor Bob is proficient with C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
=== News (with Comments) About the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(For newcomers, The Loglan Institute, Inc. is the organization headed by James Cooke Brown, the founder of the Loglan Project. While la lojbangirz. has serious disputes with Brown on availability of the language, and the politics of the Loglan/Lojban community, we respect his achievements and contributions to Loglan/Lojban. We will strive to continue to present reasonably fair outside reports on his efforts, especially reporting on how his organization&#039;s activities affect Lojban and Lojbanists.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim Brown&#039;s 4th edition of Loglan 1 has been out for 9 months now. The Loglan Institute, Inc. has advertised the book in Scientific American, Analog, and a couple of other magazines (If you see anything about Loglan or Lojban in any publication, or receive anything from Jim Brown, please consider sending me a copy for the historical archive, or at least asking me if I need it - I am already getting most things put out by the Institute, since our information network is spread wide).&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve noted that the Institute is spending a LOT of money on advertising (thousands of dollars), which must certainly be adding significantly to Institute prices. In contrast, la lojbangirz. is trying to minimizing advertising costs by building an extensive word-of-mouth network in advance of the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, the number of books Jim, and we, can sell, is an uncertain question. Most small press print runs are for 500, 1000, or 2000 books, with significant per book savings on the larger numbers. We don&#039;t know how many copies Jim had printed, but I believe he only sold 2000 copies of the 3rd Edition of Loglan 1 back in 1975-7 (at a MUCH lower price), and he advertised in Scientific American at least 3 times. He also didn&#039;t have Lojban and la lojbangirz. around as a &#039;competitor&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We haven&#039;t been hurt in the slightest by Brown&#039;s publication. In fact, we have profited some thereby. People come up to us at conventions and ask about the relationship between Lojban and Loglan, and we tell them - generally doubling our response rate.&lt;br /&gt;
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We also gain through our extensive grass roots network. Perhaps once a month people post a message on Internet saying that they&#039;ve bought Loglan 1 and asking whether anyone else is studying Loglan. We answer, and have added a couple of level 3 language students as a result, because these are people that want something like la lojbangirz. to support their language learning activities. Similar messages are posted on Compuserve, Genie, and other national networks, and Lojban volunteers have been quick to answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile we&#039;ve lost exactly 1 person in each of the last 3 years who has chosen to study the Institute&#039;s version of the language over Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Turning to other Institute activities, we&#039;ve heard that Robert McIvor has revised the 8-year-old draft of a paper intended for submission to Communications of the ACM on the supposed unambiguity of the Institute&#039;s version of the language, and that he again plans to submit the paper. Jim wrote to several of the co-authors of the paper to tell them; most of these co-authors are studying Lojban. One co-author, Jeff Prothero, who devised some of the major schema for making the language truly unambiguous, indicates that he now thinks the paper&#039;s concept is too flawed to be worth publishing, and that the hand-waving evidence for &#039;unambiguity&#039; needed to explain the Institute&#039;s grammar would be laughed at by the computer community. I have an old draft of the paper in the archives and tend to agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute published its first issue of Lognet in over a year just after JL11 went out. Jim recruited Rex May, a nationally known cartoonist and libertarian author as the new editor. The result was a much improved Lognet, if small. It included a dozen pages or so, including a couple of pages of sales offerings comparable to our order form, but it did have the first paragraph of text in Institute Loglan that has been seen in years (other than in Loglan 1), and a couple of articles other than by Brown, also a rarity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other than cartoons, the quality has a long way to go to match JL, so I&#039;m not threatened (we&#039;ve asked Rex to draw us some cartoons, too). Disturbing is Brown&#039;s announced intent to give several issues of Lognet to new book purchasers and inquirers; this is disturbing not in its threat to us - that is after all what we do with le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli, but rather in ethical sense that it seems unfair to charge Institute members $25 for such a meager publication, and then give it to everyone else who doesn&#039;t pay for it, for free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The three relatively technical articles included a proposal by Rex May on non-Loglan alphabets, which is similar in many ways to Lojban&#039;s scheme for the same problem. An article by Brown reported on problems in Loglan 1 that were detected by &#039;several persons&#039; (he quoted only problems and examples Athelstan and I reported in our review in LK10). Brown claimed that the problems were minor and offered a contest for the best solutions. I barely resisted the temptation to submit the simplest solution: switch to Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An essay written by Robert McIvor proposed that gismu be assigned 5 different place structures, depending on the 5 different final vowels possible at the end of a word (in both versions of the language, two gismu are not permitted to differ only by final vowel. Unlike Lojban, the Institute version makes an exception for &#039;cultural words&#039;, and this proposal is a major expansion of that exception into a universal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t go at length into the problems with the proposal, but its adoption would spell the end of the Institute version as a true predicate language. The proposal calls the varying place structures &#039;cases&#039; - and indeed the proposal is in effect reinventing declensions. More important, the gismu are divided into a bunch of categories, including &#039;nouns&#039; and &#039;verbs&#039;, &#039;culture words&#039;, &#039;people&#039;, &#039;body parts&#039; and a few others. Each category would have its own peculiar set of declensions. Thus the assumption of a predicate language that all predicates are alike is violated at the start - major &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; that might derive from the fact that things traditionally &#039;verbs&#039; can be treated as &#039;nouns&#039; in Loglan, and vice versa would be eliminated. There are other problems, some identified by McIvor himself, any of which should be sufficient to kill the idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is some letter feedback and questions on Institute equivalents of LogFlash and other programs. It appears that those programs are being sold without proper testing. But I won&#039;t pretend that la lojbangirz. hasn&#039;t had its own software support problems, especially with MacIntosh software.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, Brown calls on readers to do a lot of things to promote the Institute version of the language. A lot of the proposals are things that we&#039;ve been doing. la lojbangirz. is honored by the extent that Brown values our methods. If only he would realize that our methods require a public domain language in order to work.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alas!&lt;br /&gt;
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Next issue, and a lot more news.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feature Topic: Esperanto and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[Whether you have (or should have) interest in Lojban as a candidate for an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is not a question addressed in the following two articles. To achieve most of its goals, including the scientific ones, Lojban needs to develop an international, multi-cultural speaker base. Lojban can be helped in this effort by the &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; community, or it can be hurt by it. Perhaps one of the best ways to spread Lojban into other cultures will be to translate the introductory and teaching materials into Esperanto (any volunteers?) In any case, it is to all Lojbanists&#039; advantage to clarify the relationship between Lojban and Esperanto, and to ensure that supporters of each language do not see the other language as a &#039;rival&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably the most commonly asked questions from new or potential Lojbanists relate to various comparisons between Esperanto and Lojban. Many of these questions come from Esperantists, who of course are the ones most familiar with their language. Some of these are friendly and curious; others are defensive and hostile, seeing Lojban as a threat or competition to Esperanto. Others come from people who have dabbled in Esperanto, and they then want to use their knowledge of Esperanto as a standard for evaluating Lojban&#039;s qualities with respect to their personal priori- ties or goals. And then there are the genuinely confused, who often have seen one of the short eye-catching advertising flyers used by Esperantists to whet people&#039;s interest. These questions generally lead to discussions along one of several lines:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Why another international language? Isn&#039;t Esperanto good enough? After all, it&#039;s already spoken by [insert questionable statistic of your choice between 25,000 and 10,000,000] people.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Esperanto a European language? Does the answer mean that non-Europeans will or won&#039;t be able to easily learn it? Is Lojban any better?&lt;br /&gt;
* Can Esperanto be used in testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis? Can Esperanto be used for machine translation? (and similar questions about applications for which we think Lojban is especially well-designed).&lt;br /&gt;
* Esperanto had speakers within a few months of its publication, but Loglan/Lojban has been around for 15/25/35 years before even the first speakers gained competence. (This leading to the humorous aside that Loglan is the first artifi-cial language to undergo a schism before anyone spoke it. Probably not true - Lojban is the first language to SURVIVE aschism occurring before anyone spoke it. la lojbangirz. is now far stronger and less-divided than the Loglan/Lojban community has ever been.)&lt;br /&gt;
* I want a language that I can use NOW for speaking and writing to other people. Lojban doesn&#039;t have anyone speaking the language, especially in other countries.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are also comments commending the short, free correspondence course that Esperanto supplies. These generally are compared to our considerably more complicated teaching materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And finally, sparking the following article:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You say Lojban has 600 rules. But Esperanto has only 16. How can you say Lojban is simpler than Esperanto?&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan will answer this question, and then Bob will follow with an essay tackling the other issues that stem from trying to compare Lojban and Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== How many rules are enough? by Athelstan ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Many people are confused or dismayed that Lojban has 600 rules while Esperanto has a mere 16. The key is in the different kinds of rules these are: Lojban&#039;s are computer parsing rules, similar to the types of rules used by compiler writers to describe computer languages. Zamenhof&#039;s 16 Rules of Esperanto are essentially commentary on 16 topics of language.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have concocted 11 rules of Lojban that approximately correspond to Esperanto&#039;s 16. Like Zamenhof&#039;s list, the Lojban rules are often groups of rules concerning a single topic. Also, following Zamenhof&#039;s example, the rule set is incomplete: the rules do not describe word or sentence order, relative and subordinate clauses, relative pronouns, and numerous other topics of grammar and vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 16 Rules of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Corresponding Rules for Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) There is no Indefinite Article, there is only a definite article (la), alike for all sexes, cases, and numbers.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;1) The articles la, le, lo, li, and lu are the name, non-veridical, veridical, numeral, and utterance articles,respectively. lai, lei, and loi are the mass articles and la&#039;i, le&#039;i, and lo&#039;i are the set articles corresponding to the first three above. lo&#039;e is the typical/average article, and le&#039;e is the stereotypical article. None vary by number, case or sex.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: This is the one rule where Lojban is not as succinct as Esperanto in covering the same ground.&lt;br /&gt;
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2) Substantives end in o. To form the plural j is added. There are only two cases: nominative and accusative; the latter is obtained from the nominative by adding n. Other cases are expressed by preposition (genitive de, dative al,ablative per, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;2) sumti (arguments) assume the case of the sumti place they occupy. The place tags fa, fe, fi, fo, and fu may be used to explicitly state the place. Also, the case tags bai, bau, di&#039;u, etc. may be used to specify the case.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: Lojban words do not change endings, so the corresponding rule only deals with determination of cases. Note that this is a conglomeration of four rules, each in its own sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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3) The Adjective ends in a. Case and number as for substantives. The Comparative is made by means of the word pli,the Superlative by plej; with the Comparative the conjunction ol is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;3) Any selbri may modify any other selbri by position. Comparatives and Superlatives are formed by simple modification.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: The Lojban rule describes a secondary function, as there are no separate words that act only as adjectives in Lojban. The Esperanto rule consists of six rules this time; the second sentence is short but refers to two separate rules inside Rule 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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4) The cardinal Numerals (not declined) are: unu, du, tri, kvar, kvin, ses, sep, ok, nau, dek, cent, mil. Tens and hundreds are formed by simple junction of the numerals. To mark the ordinal numerals a is added; for the multiple, obl;for the fractional, on; for the collective, op; for the distributive, the preposition po. Substantival and adverbial numerals can also be used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;4) The digits are pa, re, ci, vo, mu, xa, ze, bi, so, and no (zero). pi is the decimal point. Numbers are formed byjunction of the digits. li ... boi surround simple numbers as sumti. To mark the ordinal, the post-position moi isused; similarly mei for the collective. pi ... mei surrounds the fractional.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: These two Rules correspond closely for the first seven parts, but the last sentence of Zamenhof&#039;s rule invokesrules from Rule 2 and Rule 3, adding ten rules in all for a total of seventeen rules directly and indirectly containedin this paragraph.&lt;br /&gt;
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5) Personal Pronouns: mi, vi, li, si, gi (thing or animal), si, ni, vi, ili, oni; possessives are formed by adding a.Declension as for substantives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;5) Anaphora: ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, etc; mi, do, ko, ti, ta, tu, ri, ra, ru, zu&#039;i, zo&#039;e; possessives are formed by position orwith prepositions pe, po, po&#039;e.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: These are of similar length except that Rule 2&#039;s substantive declension rules are included. I count sixrules, therefore, to Lojban&#039;s three.&lt;br /&gt;
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6) The Verb undergoes no change with regard to person or number. Forms of the verb: time being (Present) takes thetermination -as; time been (Past) -is; time about-to-be (Future) -os; Conditional mood -us; Imperative mood -u; In-finitive -i. Participles (with adjectival or adverbial sense): active present -ant; active past -int; active future -ont; passive present -at; passive past -it; passive future -ot. The passive is rendered by a corresponding form of theverb esti and a passive participle of the required verb; the preposition with the passive is de.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;6) The selbri undergoes no change. The tense markers pu (past), ca (present), ba (future), vi, va, vu (space), etc.may be used with any selbri or within sumti. nu, ka, ni, etc. are the abstraction operators. For the imperative, usethe anaphorum ko.&lt;br /&gt;
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Comment: Without reference to any other Rules, Zamenhof has packed Rule 6 with sixteen rules. Lojban&#039;s nine include the abstraction operators, which have no counterpart in Esperanto. Also, I have counted the tense markers as three separate rules, but they should probably count as one, like any of the other lists.&lt;br /&gt;
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7) Adverbs end in e; comparison as for adjectives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: This is covered under Rule 3 on modification.&lt;br /&gt;
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8) All Prepositions govern the nominative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Lojban has no cases in the sense used here, so it needs no rule corresponding to this one.&lt;br /&gt;
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9) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;7) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;8) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable (names may be marked for irregular stress).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11) Compound Words are formed by simple junction of the words (the chief word stands at the end). Grammatical terminations are also regarded as independent words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;9) lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi, substituting or inserting y where appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: As Zamenhof left off variant compounding rules, I felt equally free in leaving out the more extensive lujvo-making considerations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12) When another negative word is present the word ne is left out.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;10) na acts to negate a bridi, and is never an intensifier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: I have recently examined a treatise on the scope of negation in the natural languages. It is medium-sized,and an inch and a half thick; both of these two Rule statements obviously miss a lot of ground. [Bob&#039;s note: the current Lojban negation proposal covers all of the ground of negation with 4 cmavo, and involves 47 of the 600-oddmachine grammar rules. But it requires a lot of explanation to cover all of natural language negation, as will be seen in JL12.]&lt;br /&gt;
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13) In order to show direction towards, words take the termination of the accusative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: see comment on 8, above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14) Each Preposition has a definite and constant meaning; but if the direct sense does not indicate which it should be, we use the preposition je, which has no meaning of its own. Instead of je we may use the accusative without a preposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15) The so-called Foreign Words, that is, those which the majority of languages have taken from one source, undergo no change in Esperanto, beyond conforming to its orthography; but with various words from one root, it is better to use unchanged only the fundamental word and to form the rest from this latter in accordance with the rules of the Esperanto language.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;11) Nonce le&#039;avla are marked with le&#039;a and a marker rafsi as appropriate, and should conform to Lojban orthography.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Zamenhof&#039;s Rule here does not seem to admit of any major group of languages that are not closely interrelated.That is, he assumes that if a word varies, it varies from one fundamental root word. I have included a description of borrowed terms as the closest approximation to this rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16) The Final Vowel of the substantive and of the article may sometimes be dropped and be replaced by an apostrophe.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please note the overall structure of the 16 Rules. The first 8 cover eight major parts of speech in Graeco-Romangrammar; articles, nouns, adjectives, numerals, pronouns, verbs, adverbs and prepositions. The last 8 cover seven aspects of the same grammatical philosophy: pronunciation, accent, compounding, negation, case usage, borrowings, and elision. (Rule 14 should really be divided and shared between Rule 8 and Rule 13.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that any language with a Graeco-Roman grammar form can be described by similar rules. They may be long rules, including lots of sub-rules, but Zamenhof started this practice with the Esperanto rules. They may ignore a lot of the grammar, but again this is in keeping with the example set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, with slight adjustments to the Rule topics, any language may be described with approximately 16 rules, if the rules are sufficiently complex (and allow for all the exceptions that are inherent in natural languages). In some cases, a language&#039;s rule set may not even be as complex as Esperanto&#039;s; this is the case with Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In order to have a meaningful comparison between numbers of rules, the complexity of those rules must be nearly uniform; the machine parsing rules (of which Lojban has about 600) come closer to meeting that ideal. Unfortunately,there are no figures on the number of such rules required by Esperanto; we must rely on indirect evidence of their number. Esperanto&#039;s dependency on case declensions probably alone requires a complete set of rules comparable to Lojban&#039;s FOR EACH CASE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is not my intention here to prove that Lojban is &#039;better than Esperanto&#039; or that Esperanto is in some way &#039;defective&#039;. It is rather to show that the comparison of two languages is a complex task, and not to be decided by comparing raw numbers. Each of these languages is complex in itself, and yet much simpler than the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Bob&#039;s note: Even comparing languages by counting machine parsing rules is risky, unless you count rules the same way.We&#039;ve used the number 600 as the machine rule count for Lojban in the above article. However, that number is a count of each individual rule line in the current machine grammar proposal, which was not written to minimize the rule count, but to modularize the grammar into separate, small chunks that can be readily understood. An earlier JL article compared Lojban&#039;s rule count to the &#039;BNF rules&#039; used to define common computer languages like C, Pascal, or ADA; such a comparison can only be approximated. The Lojban rules are much simpler than those used in BNF rule descriptions, which are generally use compression conventions that are not directly testable with YACC for unambiguity. Eventually,probably after we baseline the YACC grammar, someone will rewrite the Lojban rules in the shorter, more readable BNF format. The result will be much shorter than the current rule set - perhaps 250-350 rules, within the same order of magnitude as computer languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
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=== On Comparing Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First let me state a guiding principle for evaluating the two languages. Lojban is not &#039;in competition&#039; with Esperanto. These are two separate languages with separate goals and applications. These may overlap, but are not identical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Evaluating two languages is like &#039;comparing apples and oranges&#039;. If forced to choose between an apple and orange,you will do so for purely personal reasons, based on your needs and desires of the moment. Similarly, if your goal is to learn an artificial language and you don&#039;t have time to learn both Lojban and Esperanto, you will end up choosing based on your own personal reasons. (Learning a language, even an artificial one, is a fairly abstruse goal in itself -you usually have some longer range purpose for such a major effort, a purpose that will probably dictate the language you learn).&lt;br /&gt;
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Competition would be pointless. Partisan support for one language doesn&#039;t make that language &#039;better&#039; for others;it can, however, spark counterproductive rivalry. Far better instead to work to attract new people into discovering reasons for learning our respective artificial languages. By encouraging these new people, as well as supporters of our respective languages, to be as informed as possible about both languages, intelligent choices can be made towards individual goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Lojban becomes widely used, it might become a meaningful candidate as a universal &#039;second language&#039;, just as Esperanto now is. If Esperanto continues with healthy growth, then at that time there might be a basis to speak of a &#039;choice&#039; for &#039;world language&#039; between Lojban, Esperanto, and possibly other candidates. The decisions will then be made by nations and cultures on the basis of THEIR personal desires and goals - the same non-competitive situation, but at a higher level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Lojban to reach that level of viability, its various applications will have to be proven - there must be computer implementations, accomplishment of useful scientific research, and thousands or millions of speakers, before Lojban can be talked of as a &#039;world language&#039; as Esperanto now is. If Lojban becomes such a force for consideration as a world language, then I think that demonstrating enough growth to &#039;catch up to Esperanto&#039; as well as enough usefulness OUTSIDE of the international language movement to survive until then, will be convincing evidence that Lojban is suited for world acceptance. Furthermore, if Esperanto hasn&#039;t succeeded as an international language by the time Lojban is proven viable for global consideration, then Lojban&#039;s &#039;higher momentum&#039; and extra applications should the cause it to be considered &#039;more&#039; viable. Meanwhile, if Esperanto does succeed, then Lojban will continue to be used and useful for its other purposes. Each language will succeed or fail at its own goals on its own merits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither language has been accepted yet, and neither language will be accepted at the expense of the other. There is no point in talking of competition, especially when many Lojbanists are at the same time Esperantists, and who have no desire to &#039;make a choice&#039;. Let&#039;s keep the community of artificial language aficionados together, bucking the tendency in that community towards disharmony and schism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let us try to compare apples and oranges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are four major areas of criteria wherein Esperanto and Lojban can be compared - aesthetics, usefulness, scientific or linguistic merit, and success. I&#039;ll discuss each in turn.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Aesthetics ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first basis of comparison is aesthetic. There are a few aesthetic qualities - sound, rhythm, ease of pronunciation, simplicity, elegance, completeness - but the standards of &#039;good&#039; in these qualities are cultural at best, and individual at worst. I am most irritated by people, not having made an effort to learn the language, who say that Lojban seems &#039;cold&#039;, &#039;mechanical&#039;, &#039;inhuman&#039;, &#039;complicated&#039;, &#039;hard to learn&#039;, or deficient any other measure of aesthetic quality; they have absolutely no knowledge basis on which to make such an evaluation!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The aesthetics of language is totally determined by knowledge. All languages have beauty, when looked at from an internal perspective. You have to see, and to understand, the sounds, the forms, the structure, and the poetry, before you can determine whether a language has properties that attract you. Michael Helsem&#039;s writings in le lojbo ciska this issue may demonstrate this to you. Whether you like his poetry or not, he clearly has found something in the language that inspires him to explore further. He couldn&#039;t have found this without trying to express his own ideas in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most people make a first evaluation of Lojban based on two sentences in the brochure, and a couple more if they get the Overview. These sentences can be evaluated by a newcomer only in translation, and whatever virtue Lojban has is obviously going to be lost by translation into English. The sentences are longer than the colloquial English translation, so Lojban seems complicated (heightened by people&#039;s perception that logic is complicated). The frequent reference to &#039;logic&#039; in our introductory materials makes people think of Vulcans, whereupon they presume that a logical language must inherently be cold and inhuman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, people criticize our &#039;Chicken McNugget&#039; gismu - it seems like the wrong way, to them, to build a &#039;warm, human&#039; language. A newcomer sees a heavy emphasis on the rules of the language, on computer applications, and on linguistic principles, in our introductory descriptions, which makes Lojban seem &#039;cold&#039; and &#039;mechanical&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A third group of critics see Lojban words as unaesthetic because of particular sounds that they find difficult to say, or simply because the words are enough different from English that they think it will be hard to learn them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that all of these evaluations are based on misconceptions caused by the way we describe the language and by the readers&#039; cultural prejudices. However, we can&#039;t possibly tell a casual newcomer enough about the language for him/her to aesthetically evaluate it. There are too many possible misconceptions to deal with; in this newsletter alone I&#039;ve written 3 or 4 essays that try to dispel misconceptions among readers with far more information than the person who casually picks up our brochure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto appeals aesthetically to European-family newcomers because they grasp the simplified European principles relatively easily. They can read Esperanto text and recognize dozens of cognates, giving them a feeling that they already practically know the language. Esperanto will always have this advantage over Lojban, since Lojban requires an interested person to learn a bit more before she/he can see the simplicity and the patterns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need to make introductory Lojban materials good enough that a newcomer feels compelled to learn enough about the language to properly evaluate aesthetic features. WHEN PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT LOJBAN, THEY STAY WITH US. Our dropout rate among such people is only a couple of percent per year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several people have tried to write a one-or-two page handout on Lojban, but it&#039;s awfully hard to describe something as complex as a human language in just a couple of paragraphs. On the other hand, at Worldcon, we saw numerous 1-page Esperanto handouts that showed great advertising sophistication, reducing all of Esperanto to some graphics and a catchy slogan that plays to the emotions. I would feel dishonest trying to do the same. Our handouts give information, quite dense information at that. Our only catchy slogan so far is &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot;, which of course also loses something in the translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps Lojban promoters can learn from Esperanto in other ways. Esperanto has a correspondence course for newcomers, which Lojban doesn&#039;t. It isn&#039;t even on our priority list yet, although Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson may eventually serve much the same basic purpose - to give peo- ple the warm, fuzzy, feeling that they can indeed learn the language, and that it is aesthetically pleasing - then they will be willing to start the hard work necessary to actually learn it. Only the people who move beyond such introductory lessons actually learn and use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On a more practical note, it will be impossible to evaluate the aesthetics of Lojban until it is spoken by reasonably fluent speakers. Only the first tidbits of Lojban poetry have now been written, by one poet, so the enormous power of the language to convey ideas has hardly been tapped. The aesthetics of Lojban are being evaluated on such trivial grounds as whether one likes the apostrophe as a representation for the vowel buffer (pronounced like an h - but NOT an h), or whether the consonant clusters at the beginning of &amp;quot;cfari&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mrilu&amp;quot; seem pronounceable. Esperantists have a similar problem, with four alphabetic letters not found on any typewriter or computer keyboard. But Esperanto has speakers, poetry, novels - a community of people using the language - to give it the aura of &#039;humanity&#039;. It did not have these 100 years ago, when people first made the choice to learn the language. Lojban will have these things, too, and in a very short while.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Usefulness ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Turning to the second major area where Esperanto and Lojban may be compared, we examine the qualities of usefulness - what are the uses to which each language may be put, and how well does each language serve those purposes. Esperanto was designed solely as an international language. Other purposes that could be devised for it are accidental. Lojban was first designed as a linguistic tool, but with specific requirements (cultural neutrality, ease of learning, simplicity) that probably are important in an international language, and one (extremism in one or more areas of language structure) that is a disadvantage. For various reasons, the disadvantage of extremism has been ameliorated; most of the extremes in Lojban are optional, and can be avoided by an international user. The advent of computers and the large number of computer professionals has led to a secondary goal of useful computer applications while the language was still being formed, making this a third area of usefulness that is in effect designed into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless we&#039;ve really fouled up, Lojban HAS to be potentially useful in more ways than Esperanto is. IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This doesn&#039;t suffice for a comparison, though. Lojban may have a great deal of unrealized potential, but Esperanto has realized most of its potential. It HAS been used for international communication. It is NOW being de- signed into an elaborate machine translation system that is expected to bear fruit by 1992. And while most linguists ignore Esperanto because it is not a &#039;natural language&#039;, has few native speakers, and is in effect a simplified European tongue, there are some linguists who have re- searched Esperanto as a language, and who have used it in linguistic studies such as language education.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is not yet being used for any of these things. However, every application &#039;discovered&#039; for Esperanto has been designed for in Lojban, and a few more besides. Esperanto has an advantage in application now, but if Lojban survives at all, it will eventually have more and better applications. And because all of these applications are conceived of and being worked on from the start, Lojban won&#039;t take 100 years to achieve that large variety of useful application.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Scientific/Linguistic Merit ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the third area, scientific or linguistic merit, there is also no competition possible. Lojban has &#039;won the race&#039; by starting at the finish line that Esperanto can never reach. Yet in another sense, Esperanto is also at a finish line, which Loglan/Lojban has had to strive for 35 years to finally reach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Esperanto was invented, there wasn&#039;t a science of linguistics. A few seeds had been planted, mostly along the lines of historical evolution of languages. The concept of inventing a language significantly different than European languages was inconceivable - at least in Europe. Indeed, until my generation, all languages, even Oriental ones, were taught using Latin as the pure, perfect, ideal if dead language that was the model of what a language &#039;should be&#039;. Of hundreds of international languages invented before Lojban, almost none have a non- European grammar. They were simplified forms of Latin with some a priori or derived set of words to fit onto that Latinate architecture. Indeed, most of the hundreds of languages I&#039;ve seen in the Library of Congress stacks are described only as dictionaries, with some small set of rules at the front telling what simplifications have been made to standard European (read Latin) grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto&#039;s 16 rules are just such a set. Indeed, Zamenhof apparently intended all things not covered by the rules to be done &#039;like they are in your own language&#039;, as if all languages were alike in such reference. The 16 rules are confusing to anyone who doesn&#039;t know a European language, just as Lojban&#039;s machine grammar is confusing to anyone not versed in YACC grammars. What is an &#039;accusative&#039; in any of the Amerind languages, an &#039;adjective&#039; in Chinese, or perhaps a &#039;passive&#039;? You can&#039;t teach Esperanto without teaching these concepts, which are inherent to the design of the language. A non-European can&#039;t learn Esperanto without first learning the concepts and mind-set of European language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Project was started some 40 years after what is considered the birth of modern linguistics. Then, in the 1950&#039;s, the language was a skeleton - a simple structure with a few hundred words - based on predicate logic, which has been thoroughly studied for 2000 years. By the time the language meaningfully took shape, in the 1960&#039;s, modern linguistic theory had undergone the revolution that had pretty much thrown out the Latin ideal. Older versions of Loglan show obvious Latinate biases. Newer versions leading up to Lojban have successively weeded out more and more of them. The Lojban version now being taught has had input from dozens of linguists, and has been examined in comparison with a variety of linguistic theories that weren&#039;t around when Esperanto was developed. Loglan/Lojban has changed to account for the rapidly developing field of linguistics. Only recently has there been enough confidence that a baselined Lojban is &#039;good enough&#039; to meet the stringent linguistic tests that we believe are required for a totally new language to seem &#039;natural&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban has striven for 35 years from scratch to achieve the finish line of &#039;natural&#039; language. 100 years ago, Esperanto started at the European finish line, taking a few steps back to &#039;simplify&#039; the European grammar before again &#039;completing the race&#039;. Lojban moves beyond the restrictions of European grammar. It overtly incorporates linguistic universals, building in what is needed to support the expressivity of the whole variety of natural languages, including non-European ones. Esperanto, on the other hand, will always be constrained to some degree by its Latinate structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am particularly bothered by comparisons that note that Lojban has taken 35 years to achieve meaningful conversation, while Esperanto had hundreds of thousands of speakers within 35 years of its founding, including some native speakers. The fact that Lojban took 35 years to reach a point of development where it was speakable is a mark of the amount of work that went into the language, a sign that this spoken language is different, but not inferior to, any that have existed before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban&#039;s purposes include linguistic experimentation, evaluating Lojban&#039;s merit requires noting the mechanisms built into the language that allow, even require, the use of the language for linguistic experimentation. There are roots of redundant expression forms for several types of expression. They will compete with each other for usage as Lojban grows. The choices made by real speakers should reveal NEW facts about language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has the cultural neutrality needed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. (Yes, &#039;logic&#039; could be a European bias. Indeed, Jim Brown intended that Loglan have an extreme bias that would have measurable effects - that is the requirement for a Sapir-Whorf experimental test. But beyond logic, Lojban is exceptionally free from obvious bias.) It has structures built into it that allow comparison with languages of many different families, not just European ones; such comparison will unmask observed Sapir-Whorf effects that are European artifacts in disguise, and will be possible because Lojban&#039;s grammar is non-European.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And you don&#039;t &#039;have to be logical&#039; in Lojban. The redundant structures allow both hyperlogical and illogical ways of expressing things; you can be as erudite, or nonsensical as you choose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Success ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, the last criteria - success. Lojban has NO fluent speakers. Esperanto has some large number - the value dependent on your source and whether you or the source is trying to promote or denigrate the language - but certainly a lot more than Lojban. Where&#039;s the comparison? Where&#039;s the competition?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You cannot compare Esperanto&#039;s numbers with Lojban&#039;s numbers and gain any useful information regarding their relative potential for success. Lojban&#039;s couple of speakers are too small to deal with statistically. Thus you can use our numbers to prove practically anything.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, the number of Lojban students is growing in excess of 8% per month, or 100% per year. Extrapolating on this trend, Lojban would pass Esperanto in 15 years, and would be universally spoken 15 years after that. Reduce the growth rate and the results will be identical - just take longer, as long as Lojban grows faster than Esperanto. This extrapolation is ridiculous of course, and almost any method of predicting numbers is equally worthless, because changes will occur in the world every year that will invalidate any prediction. Just ask the peoples of Eastern Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto is growing in numbers too, though not nearly as fast as Lojban. If it did, there would be no question about ITS eventually being a world language. But Esperanto right now isn&#039;t growing fast enough. When the population of the world grows by hundreds of millions per year, Esperanto is losing ground every day - just as Lojban is. Both languages are failures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two paragraphs, opposite conclusions. Counting speakers is meaningless. Based on numbers, anything will happen tomorrow. Or nothing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Numbers of speakers are meaningless anyway, if the people don&#039;t USE the language. The biggest shock for me at Worldcon was sitting next to the Esperanto table for several days and NEVER HEARING A SINGLE CONVERSATION IN ESPERANTO. I won&#039;t say that none occurred (some of the people at the Esperanto tables are reading this), but I didn&#039;t hear any.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We didn&#039;t talk much Lojban at our table either. But our audience of potential conversationalists was much smaller - those of us who had driven up to Boston. The same group of us did speak Lojban for hours in the car going to and from Boston. But Esperantists visiting from all over the country and all over the world were speaking English in preference to Esperanto at their table.&lt;br /&gt;
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Only if a language is used can it be judged successful. And neither language is being used to its potential (Nora and I COULD set time aside each day to talk in Lojban, but we don&#039;t.) This will have to change if either language is to achieve &#039;success&#039;, in the sense of being widely used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has a long-term advantage there, based on the greater potential uses discussed above. If the language is USED by the people who learn it. If the 100-or-more level 3 people out there start sending me sentences, then para- graphs, then texts in Lojban, and eventually start interacting with each other because they don&#039;t need us to tell them that they are using the language correctly, then Lojban will be used for its intended purposes. If not, Lojban will be just another dead artificial language. The same is true for Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
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Any Esperantist/Lojbanist who gives me the argument that they can use Esperanto now, but cannot use Lojban, is arguing a self-defeating position. If you want to use a language, you will find a way to use it. We have the network in place for Lojbanists to interact with each other, including some people from other countries (though the numbers are still small). But you have to learn the language first in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
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The same argument follows for people who are &#039;waiting for some practical application&#039; before learning the language. The people who are waiting should be making the known applications a reality, and should also be creating new ones. Some of the brightest people in the world are reading this essay; you certainly have the ability to make Lojban (or Esperanto) applicable to your life - but only if you choose to.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban applications will naturally spring up from the seeds we&#039;ve planted. The time that no one seems to have available now for learning the language, could bear fruit and be ripe with reward in just a few years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile Lojbanists have the ultimate consolation. Unlike Esperanto, Lojban can achieve one of its goals even while failing as a language. While most of the linguistic community has yet to realize it, the efforts of the past 35 years have probably taught more about the nature of language than any other experimental effort. Every day and every new Lojban speaker adds to that knowledge. If Lojban suddenly is abandoned 5 or 10 years from now as a dead language, or is &#039;beaten out by Esperanto&#039; as a world language, it will still have succeeded in its original aim - to teach us more about language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is one aspect in which I can comfortably say that &#039;Lojban is better than Esperanto&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Side Note on the Discussion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Philosophically, I am unconvinced that personal and political decisions should be made in a competitive environment. The prevalent idea seems to be that &amp;quot;for me to be right, you must be wrong&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;for me to be good, you must be bad&amp;quot; is unrealistically simplistic. Within human endeavors, there is no absolute right or absolute good. Whether a language or a person, a candidate should be chosen on the basis of how well the varying needs of everyone concerned will be served, preferably not at the expense of others&#039; needs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An interesting side note occurred to Nora in reading this. The Lojban gismu &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot;, representing the concept of &#039;good&#039;, has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is good for x2 by standard x3&amp;quot;. Comparatives were also removed from other place structures when the language was redesigned. While Lojban can express comparisons quite easily, they are now avoided in gismu place structures. Thus one need not consider everything as being &#039;more&#039; or &#039;better&#039; than something else in order for a basic predicate relationship to be claimed. One needn&#039;t decide what something is &amp;quot;bluer than&amp;quot; in order to decide that it is &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;. One needn&#039;t decide that something is &amp;quot;better than&amp;quot; something else in order for it to be &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;. This seems metaphysically simpler, and now appears to be a more significant qualitative difference from earlier versions of the language than we&#039;ve perceived before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The metaphysical difference is perhaps significant to a Sapir-Whorf test, since if S/W is true, the earlier design could lead to a culture where people see the world as a competitive place where everything always strives to be more &#039;broda&#039; (~whatever) than something else, a culture that doesn&#039;t seem very pleasant to me in an aesthetic sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following article is taken from a letter received from Dr. Gorsch in which he described his recent class. Those of you interested in the evolution of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis since 1955, and those of you interested in developing useful applications for Lojban in education should find the letter an following course outline very useful. We ask anyone else who considers using the materials below to develop their own course, or for any other purpose, to let us know their results in a similar fashion. We also ask that appropriate credit be given Dr. Gorsch for his germinal work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== An Introductory College Course in Semiotics Using Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending the wonderful tape.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, it arrived too late for me to use it in my class. Don&#039;t worry, though. I will use it when I reorganize this occasional course in &amp;quot;Semiology&amp;quot; into a regular course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society.&amp;quot; We are planning to make this course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society&amp;quot; a regular part of the curriculum of the English Department, and &amp;quot;Artificial Languages&amp;quot; (including Lojban) will be a unit of this course. I expect to be offering it for the first time in the Spring of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have enclosed the reading list for my course in semiology, together with copies of the readings most closely related to the Whorfian Hypothesis and the development of modern sign-theory. Please note that this is an &amp;quot;intensive&amp;quot; course: each meeting represents 2 1/2 hours of class-time or something like a week in a regular semester.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me briefly sketch the context in which I introduced students to Loglan and Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my course we began with an examination of the way in which sign-systems, linguistic and non-linguistic, organize the raw experience of the human mind. We concentrated on developments in Continental linguistics and culture-theory that derive from the Swiss linguist Saussure. This tra- dition, associated with the terms &amp;quot;structuralism,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;semiotics&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;semiology,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;post-structuralism&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;deconstruction,&amp;quot; anticipates, parallels, and from the 1960&#039;s on elaborates the speculations of Sapir and Whorf. Saussurean &amp;quot;sign-theory,&amp;quot; with all of its quasi-Whorfian implications, is extremely influential today in academic circles, particularly in such fields as literary studies, anthropology, and communications. Indeed, it has been practically the intellectual orthodoxy in literary studies since the mid-1970&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some semiologists look back to the Whorfian Hypothesis as a kind of corroboration of Saussure&#039;s thesis that the sign consists of the arbitrary correlation of a signifier, for example, an arbitrarily selected segment of human speech sounds, and a signified, an arbitrarily defined segment of human thought or experience. This thesis concerning the relation between language and thought is developed, in particular, on pp. 111-22 of Saussure&#039;s Course. Umberto Eco uses the terms &amp;quot;cultural unit&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;culturally pertinent unit&amp;quot; to refer to what Saussure and his followers would call the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; (see the enclosed selections from Eco).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For writers in this Saussurean tradition the lexicon of each language is of especial interest. Eco, for example, makes much of the fact that speakers of Latin had no word for &amp;quot;rat&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;mouse.&amp;quot; They did not (or did not easily) make a distinction where speakers of English do make a distinction. Through the lexical items they make available to their speakers different languages embody different segmentations or divisions of potential human experience. Each language constitutes a &amp;quot;map&amp;quot; of human experience. Takao Suzuki&#039;s discussion of the English words break, drink, desk, water, and lip is designed to show that these maps do not coincide. It is as though English and Japanese cartographers--to say nothing of Turkish and Swahili cartographers--organized Earth&#039;s land masses into political units in quite different ways.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Semioticians like Eco also analyze the way in which a given language organizes human experience by relating culturally pertinent units (&amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot;) to one another through a network of connotative or associative links. Thus, as Eco explains in &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System,&amp;quot; a language not only differentiates each cultural unit from other, &amp;quot;adjacent&amp;quot; units (&amp;quot;orange&amp;quot; is differentiated from &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; and from &amp;quot;yellow&amp;quot;), but links each cultural unit to other units in other &amp;quot;semantic fields.&amp;quot; The signified of the word &amp;quot;rose,&amp;quot; the idea of a certain kind of flower, is linked connotatively to other signifieds, &amp;quot;romance,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sexual passion,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;male reverence for the female,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;courtship customs (giving flower),&amp;quot; &amp;quot;femininity,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;youth,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freshness,&amp;quot; and so on without limit. In this way each language is &amp;quot;contaminated&amp;quot; by traces of the cultural history of those who have used it: connotations are the links, arbitrary and mostly culture-specific, between one &amp;quot;semantic field&amp;quot; and another that speech communities inherit and take for granted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This thesis about the segmentation of &amp;quot;raw&amp;quot; human experience is not incompatible with the Whorfian Hypothesis. Indeed, to the extent that Whorfians concentrate on the structure of the lexicon and ask, for instance, how many words the Eskimo has for snow, the Whorfian Hypothesis can scarcely be distinguished from Eco&#039;s argument about the &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; in the sign (see &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System&amp;quot;). But, to my mind, the Whorfian Hypothesis is concerned more with grammatical structure rather than with lexicon. This is why I assign the essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; in my course (see enclosed). I selected this from a number of possibilities as Whorf&#039;s clearest articulation of the thesis that the grammatical structure of a language, and not just the map afforded by its lexicon, shapes the perceptions of its speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my course, I used some introductory materials on both Esperanto and Loglan/Lojban to illustrate possible escapes from the constraints imposed on thought, according to the Whorfian Hypotheses, by natural languages. It was my hope that students would perceive the relations between the organizations of experience embodied in Esperanto and Logan/Lojban and those embodied in Indo-European languages like English, Spanish, and French. Anyone who examines Esperanto will see that it is Indo-European, even Romance- Germanic, to the core. Lojban, in contrast reflects a serious attempt to fashion a syntactic structure significantly different from that which structures English and other Indo-European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that you will find the enclosed readings on language and culture useful: they place the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in context and reflect the importance of the thesis of linguistic relativity in modern &amp;quot;culture- criticism.&amp;quot; You should be able to locate the other readings assigned in my course using the information found in the syllabus (I would be happy to provide copies of any readings that you find difficult to obtain).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Dr. Gorsch compiled some interesting, provocative, and very perceptive questions asked by his students. I&#039;ll try to answer them here, for everyone&#039;s benefit, and to hope that Dr. Gorsch is able to pass the answers back to appropriate questioners.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Following is a digest of comments, reflections, and questions prompted by my students&#039; encounter with materials relating to Loglan and Lojban. We discussed Loglan and Lojban in class and students wrote about them in their &amp;quot;intellectual diaries&amp;quot; (which I read).&lt;br /&gt;
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Needless to say, all of my students were dazzled by the very idea that anyone would attempt to fashion an artificial language, and the brightest ones were intrigued by the idea of testing the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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I would like it to be understood that all of the following questions and remarks were framed in a skeptical spirit: my students are trained to question things, everything in fact, in a skeptical spirit. Furthermore they are based upon an introductory acquaintance with the idea of the language. I hope these questions and remarks will be of interest to you.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. As one of my brightest students argued, the architects of Loglan/Lojban seem to have taken a &amp;quot;marketing approach&amp;quot; to language design. For example, they worried more about the size of the target audience of the language -- by attempting to maximize the number of potential learners whose native languages would be incorporated, in part, into the artificial language -- than about the cul- tural neutrality of the language. J. C. Brown, at least, seems unreasonably impressed by mere numbers (how many hundreds of millions of speakers have been targeted by having their native languages incorporated in some way into the artificial language?). As compared with Loglan, Lojban clearly seems to take a step forward by including a Semitic language among its source languages; but it takes a step backward, too, by the elimination of Japanese. As things now stand, four out of six of the source languages (English, Hindi, Russian, and Spanish) are Indo-European. Thus, only three independent language families are represented (Indo-European, Hamito-Semitic, and Sino- Tibetan). Even if one limited oneself to languages spoken by over fifty million speakers, one could, in principle, represent three additional language families, for a total of six families: the Malay-Polynesian (e.g., Javanese and Malay-Indonesian), the Altaic (e.g., Turkish and probably Korean, and perhaps Japanese), and the Dravidian (e.g., Tamil and Telugu).&lt;br /&gt;
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An important compromise seems to have been made here: &amp;quot;inter-culturality&amp;quot; seems to have been sacrificed to maximal &amp;quot;target audience&amp;quot; (or, from another perspective, maximal &amp;quot;learnability&amp;quot;). Legitimate questions could be raised about the cultural neutrality of any language which rooted in a set of languages four out of six of which are Indo-European. Questions might also be raised about your methodology: have you chosen source languages according to the best possible criterion? My own instincts tell me that one should maximize the number of independent language families from which the artificial language derives: the ideal artificial language would be derived from an analysis of, say six languages representing six utterly unrelated language families rather than from an analysis of those six languages which yield the largest possible &amp;quot;target audience.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: I think it a quite perceptive observation, and a true one, that marketing mentality has had an influence on the design of the language, although I can&#039;t say for sure that it is the case in the word-making. Brown never mentions such a criterion in discussing why he chose the particular algorithm that he did in either Loglan 1 or Loglan 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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Without evidence to back me up, I would tend to think that it was Brown&#039;s background as a social scientist in the 50&#039;s that led him to maximize an algorithmically-derived and weighted statistical score. In social science, this has been a frequently used and accepted methodology.&lt;br /&gt;
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Looking at his goal, it is not an unreasonable approach. The goal was a culturally neutral word-set, but also a maximally learnable one. This is unquestionably a &#039;market- minded&#039; goal, though whether Brown chose it for market reasons is uncertain. I think he was concerned about learnability, trying to balance it against neutrality. The most learnable words to a culture are the one&#039;s most like that culture&#039;s words. The most culturally neutral of words would give no link back to the native tongue. For what was originally thought of as a small short-term language experiment, learnability among test subjects was important enough to get a weighting factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown scored words based on the appearance therein of phoneme sequences that could be used as cognate memory hooks. As a result, English speakers find &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; easy to learn for &amp;quot;come&amp;quot;, while Chinese speakers will find &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; easier to learn for &amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;, and both find &amp;quot;blanu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot; relatively easy.&lt;br /&gt;
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JL9 had a more extensive discussion of the word-making algorithm and learnability. Briefly, it is believed that Brown never actually tested whether his algorithmic score actually measured learnability. Nor is it clear that it measures cultural neutrality. Eventually linguists can study both questions - the language as a tool is there for the studying.&lt;br /&gt;
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The choice of languages was not a &#039;marketing&#039; decision, but a practical one. Again, I don&#039;t know enough about Brown&#039;s reasons, but I know what we considered, tried, and rejected. Brown used 8 languages; we used 6 for the Lojban version, because these now are the &#039;top languages&#039; in terms of population. While Japanese is sociologically, if anything, a more important language than it was 35 years ago, the number of speakers has remained constant in a growing world population. Chinese and Hindi have swelled enormously. With the end of colonialism, French and German are on the retreat, and so to a lesser extent is English (although English has increased as the language of science and technology).&lt;br /&gt;
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Given that the object of the algorithm is the creation of 5-letter words with 3 consonants, it turns out to be meaningless to use more than 3 language families to generate scores under Brown&#039;s algorithm. First, regardless of the number of languages, you must use uneven weights, or you get ties among possible words, and we didn&#039;t want our own personal aesthetics to be what chose the words. If an uneven weighting is to be used, populations of speakers is certainly as rational a weighting to use as any.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then, given that language roots are most often reflected in their consonants, a 4 language family set results in the least-reinforced language being thrown out, and a lot of low, approximately equal scores for widely differing rules - again a formula for randomness and aesthetic selection on my (the word-maker&#039;s) part. A lesser, but real factor in our remaking of the words was the tradeoff of time vs. quality of language scholarship. We didn&#039;t have very good dictionaries for languages of other families, and we didn&#039;t have time to acquire the language expertise to properly research languages with unfamiliar alphabets.&lt;br /&gt;
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By the way, we did experiment with both equal-weighting of languages, and with adding additional languages into the calculation. Neither gave useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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While 4 of our languages are in the same family, Indo- European, they are from different subfamilies that have relatively minimal sharing of roots. Indeed, about the only obvious reinforcing that we observed was some En- glish/Spanish matches where we allowed a Latinate root in the English calculation. There was probably a good deal of subliminal sharing, but a high percentage of the words are primarily a blending of Chinese and English phonemes.&lt;br /&gt;
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What was achieved, I think, is better than a set of random words. Because the weighted scores included phoneme frequency and order, we have words that have a phoneme frequency that is consistent with the weighted average concept. We have an extremely non-random distribution of sound sequences that emphasizes those sound sequences that are pleasing to the widest possible distribution of speakers, because those sound sequences came from the words of their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cultural neutrality is served in that the words are sufficiently different from the roots of any one language family that no language sees a too high level of cognate reinforcement. Even with 4 Indo-European languages, no linguistic historian would ever recognize Lojban as having an obvious Indo-European heritage instead of a Sino-Tibetan one. Thus we counter to some extent the cultural biases caused by semantic transference, where Lojban words end up with the meanings of the base language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Furthermore, since we use the same concept (as near as possible) from each source language, our vocabulary has a universality not biased towards a single culture. Such a bias towards one culture is the main threat against Lojban&#039;s usefulness in testing Sapir-Whorf, especially if it is an unrecognized one.&lt;br /&gt;
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We can say that any biases in Lojban word-making are consistent, identifiable and to some extent measurable; however, they are probably not important.&lt;br /&gt;
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Researchers will be able to verify this. If the biases are meaningful, linguists of the future will be able to look at Lojban and measure some resulting effect, correlating it with the known and measurable bias. If such an effect exists and can be tied to apparent Sapir-Whorf effects, it might invalidate Lojban as a test tool. Though I doubt if such biases will prove meaningful, there is always a risk that any new scientific tool may have such flaws that invalidate the research results. Lojban is such a tool and is subject to the same risks.&lt;br /&gt;
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An essential factor in the word-making algorithm is appearance, and this is a &#039;market-minded&#039; goal. The method we used gives an objective approach to word-making that eliminates personal biases, and it demonstrates a mind-set towards protecting cultural neutrality. Loglan/Lojban has attracted researchers and students by using its word-making algorithm as an obvious symbol for cultural neutrality, a symbol which your students have correctly noted is at least somewhat illusory.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. In the design of Lojban, how were the lexical items selected? From the perspective of semiology, this is a crucial question. A sign-system constrains thought above all (or at least significantly) by virtue of the organization of experience it imposes on a community through (a) the &amp;quot;cultural units&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; it defines and (b) the web of connotative relations that it establishes between these &amp;quot;cultural units.&amp;quot; See the articles by Eco and the selections from Suzuki.&lt;br /&gt;
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If one were simply to devise new signifiers, new &amp;quot;words,&amp;quot; for the signifieds given by Indo-European schemas (&amp;quot;man,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;woman,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;blue,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sky,&amp;quot; and so on), one would be producing a kind of code into which speakers could simply translate discourse already structured by a natural language like English, Spanish, or Russian.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: First, I&#039;ll note that the first paragraph of this question assumes the validity of Sapir-Whorf; if S/W is false, then sign-systems would not constrain thought.&lt;br /&gt;
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How were Loglan/Lojban word concepts chosen? From a variety of sources, all probably biased in their own way. The hope that we have a neutral word set derives from the variety of ways that words have come into the language, and the large number of people involved in the project over the years, have neutralized any major biases.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we rebuilt the vocabulary for Lojban, we heavily based our concept selection on Brown&#039;s. The source of each of Brown&#039;s concepts may be buried in his notes, but has not been published. Brown has presented some of his basic ideas, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Brown started with some number of root concepts that had been identified by linguists in the 50&#039;s as being found in &#039;all&#039; languages.&lt;br /&gt;
* To this list, he apparently added the work of Ogden in creating the word list for BASIC English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Recognizing that linguistics hadn&#039;t dealt effectively with taboos, he added explicit roots for a variety of biological functions that tend to be primitive in every language.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown did a study, using the most frequent concepts in Helen Eaton&#039;s list of the most frequent concepts in 4 European languages. While this list undoubtedly has a European bias, it served as a check on the primitive word list. Brown checked the first 3000 words of this list, and required, according to Zipf&#039;s law, that the most frequent concepts be the shortest words, i.e. primitives.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown added concepts proposed by him and others rather haphazardly over a period of 30 years. Loglan thus ended up with words for &#039;olive&#039;, &#039;billiards&#039;, and &#039;blonde&#039;. (An exception is that the entire collection of concepts proposed in The Loglanist between 1975 and 1982, dis- appeared without a trace when Brown rebuilt his word list in 1981-2.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there bias in these methods? Yes, especially when the decisions were made by Brown alone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown has expressed a strong bias towards theories that claim biological innateness or instinctiveness of certain concepts. Thus he retained concepts for father and for mother as &#039;biologically primitive&#039;, rather than choosing to make them as the tanru &#039;male-parent&#039; and &#039;female-parent&#039;. To Brown, mother is something more than &#039;female-parent&#039; for biological reasons. For similar reasons, noting the wide use of human and animal body parts as the basis for metaphor in all languages, Brown decided that a large list of body parts are primitive &#039;biological&#039; concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The theory of biological innateness may be true; its assumption without proof is an identified bias. Because it is a known bias, it can be used positively in watching for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown&#039;s individual biases have been corrected, or at least ameliorated, by the extensive redevelopment of the language over the last several years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over time, the Eaton list analysis was expanded. This analysis gave birth to the dissenting opinion that primitive words should be selected on the basis of usefulness in making tanru, and not on some innate &#039;basicness&#039;. Brown disagreed, and while he was in charge of the language, usefulness per se was not a factor unless the chosen primitive could be justified on the basis of Eaton frequency.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we remade the words for Lojban, we accepted the &#039;usefulness&#039; criterion as a primary consideration, choosing to make the gismu list a set of &#039;root&#039; concepts chosen primarily for building tanru, and not a set of &#039;basic&#039; concepts (more on this below in the response to jyjym.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We reviewed Brown&#039;s list word by word, attempting to justify each in terms of either its ability to be used in tanru covering the most frequent words in the Eaton list, on one of Brown&#039;s scientific criteria, or on high frequency in the Eaton list coupled with an inability to express the concept as a tanru of other gismu. Where there was doubt, we deferred to Brown&#039;s earlier decisions, in order to enhance chances for reconciliation.&lt;br /&gt;
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During this review, one final criteria was adopted, based on the work of Paul Doudna and others. The words were divided into semantic categories. If there were several words in a semantic category, we added other words, even if of lesser frequency, to complete the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our re-evaluation actually took place at least 4 times, with concepts being added and removed. A final review against Roget&#039;s Thesaurus sought to verify that we had allowed for the entire range of semantic thought, although there is plenty of room for addition of new concepts if admissions are identified. In general, we have tried to err on the side of inclusion; the inclusion of a word does not mean that it will be used, while the exclusion of a word means that it won&#039;t be.&lt;br /&gt;
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(Lojban development has often accomplished cultural neutrality by inclusion, rather than by exclusion. The existence of a language feature in any culture makes that feature a candidate for incorporation. Lojban thus allows many competing features as alternative expression forms; we choose one feature over another only when there is an unreconcilable conflict.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Our gismu list, considered as &#039;basic concepts&#039;, could not be thought bias-free. No list could be - the very adopting of a set of words as &#039;basic&#039; would bias the language towards concepts associated with those words. Lojban instead emphasizes providing &#039;semantic coverage&#039; of the entire space of potential human thought, through the combination of gismu, tanru, and lujvo. The form of the word is not intended to be an indication of semantic import or primtive merit. This philosophy frees us from much excessive concern that biases in our gismu list invalidate Lojban&#039;s linguistic usefulness.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result, the exact mapping of the gismu to the semantic space, expressed by their use in tanru, does not yet exist. The speakers of the language will make that mapping. They will determine exactly &#039;what the words mean&#039;, and this will be the final elimination of a priori cultural bias from the word set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since Lojban&#039;s set of gismu concepts is significantly different from any other language, the semantic map that will result must also be different for this reason. Three examples follow:&lt;br /&gt;
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* Lojban has a gismu for computer, a concept that didn&#039;t exist a hundred years ago. Clearly the Lojban semantic map of concepts related to computers must be different than any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
* In kinship terminology, Lojban, possibly uniquely, has sex-neutral concepts for all kinship relationships (as well as 5 pairs of sex-linked words to allow specification of sex where it is important to a person); it also allows se- mantic distinction at the primitive level between biological parent and rearing parent, and there is even a current proposal for a gismu that would permit one to avoid making such a distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
* In colors, we have a set of about a dozen colors, which can be equally modified in tanru to indicate blends, or for &#039;pale&#039; or &#039;intense&#039;. tanru can also be made for association with physical objects (sea green vs. pea green, etc.) The size of the set of colors is towards the maximum found as &#039;primitive&#039; in language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Each of these cases should have a significant effect on the Lojban semantic map, causing it to differ from any natural language. Multiply this effect by all of the other gismu and Lojban&#039;s map will undoubtedly have patterns that we can&#039;t yet even imagine.&lt;br /&gt;
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The best assurance that we have that Lojban will not be a code for another language is its grossly different structural basis: predicate grammar. Any Lojban predicate word (brivla) has exactly one place structure, and hence one denotation. This immediately militates against transferring connotations.&lt;br /&gt;
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The place structure effect is especially strong when forming tanru, and hence lujvo, which will eventually form the bulk of the language vocabulary. Thus, when Michael Helsem attempts to transfer the odd English metaphor &#039;purple prose&#039; to Lojban in his writings below, his tanru &amp;quot;zirpu lojbo&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;zirjbo&amp;quot; is obviously invalid for Lojban; one would have to be able to define in the place structure what chromatic aspect of the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;purple&amp;quot;, and by what standard. Similarly, a &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot; is not going to be expressed in Lojban as &amp;quot;skami bajra&amp;quot;, which would more likely connote the &#039;Bionic Woman&#039; running down the street in tennis shoes while a printer built into her back spits out digits of &#039;pi&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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At first, people will no doubt make such semantic transferences. But assuming that people learn to think in Lojban, it will quickly prove difficult to continue such encoding.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile, those of us who assemble dictionaries and word lists militantly watch to prevent any obvious transference of Englishisms, our worst problem while we have mostly native English speakers. Indeed, I suspect that we have a bias against English metaphor, and are prone to turn to our Chinese dictionary to confirm any permanent choice.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sticking with gismu place structures, we similarly avoid problems. As noted in the Esperanto discussion, &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;good&amp;quot;) is not a comparative. A different word (&amp;quot;xagmau&amp;quot;) would be used for the comparative, and a third (&amp;quot;xagrai&amp;quot;) for the superlative. But also in the concept &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; is an &#039;observer/evaluator&#039; who opines the property of goodness and a &#039;purpose/beneficiary&#039; so that the concept is really &amp;quot;good for&amp;quot;. The claim that there may be an absolute good that isn&#039;t &#039;for&#039; someone or something requires a different concept, shall we call it &#039;virtue&#039; for argument, that has to be a different word with a different, derived or primi- tive place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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The final obvious effect of predicates is the blurring between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. While this might have less drastic an effect on Chinese semantic transference, Lojban uses a single word for &amp;quot;caringly&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;caring&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;take care of&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;caretaker&amp;quot;. While the four are obviously related in English, each has unique connotations tied to its nature as noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. In Lojban, all of those connotations which remain consistent with the single place structure are combined and blended, forming a new meaning for the predicate word &amp;quot;kurji&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. One question, related to the preceding concerns, to which my students kept returning was this: will speakers of Lojban really be able to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; of experience imposed upon them by their native languages? Will they really be able to think in Lojban, instead of translating into Lojban, and, if so, is Lojban sufficiently inter- cultural to permit its speakers to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; that they acquired in learning their native languages?&lt;br /&gt;
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Students were accordingly somewhat skeptical about the feasibility of an empirical test of the Whorfian Hypothesis. How, exactly, would the learning of Lojban as a second language enable the Whorfian Hypothesis to be tested? I must admit that I don&#039;t quite understand what one would test and how.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: I think the first half the question was answered by the previous discussion. By necessity, learning to think in Lojban will require a drastic reforming of one&#039;s semantic maps beyond that achievable by translating from the native tongue.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no proof that &amp;quot;thinking in Lojban&amp;quot; is possible. We&#039;ll undoubtedly know within a year or two. We do have much anecdotal evidence. Lojbanists, who tend to be creative people and word-players in the first place, have habitually used Loglan/Lojban to create metaphors, then en- tertained themselves with the implications of the place structures as I did above with &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot;. Some Loglan/Lojban usages, where they most clearly express what the speaker wants, have already crept back to English. Thus Jim Brown has for years used old Loglan anaphora in English as sex-neutral pronouns, in place of various English pronouns. &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; and other &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot; pejoratives are slowly coming to replace English pejoratives in Nora and my everyday English speech.&lt;br /&gt;
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I myself have minimal experience in actually learning other languages, but I&#039;ve been told that to learn a language fluently, you have to be able to &#039;think&#039; in it, and adopt the &#039;maps&#039; associated with the second language. In the case of Lojban, this will be a Lojbanic map - not an English one. Can a Lojbanic map be learned? Second language learners have learned new languages (and their maps) both similar and drastically different from their own. Studies of English speakers using BASIC English indicate that if the new language is too similar to the old, it is actually harder to learn the new map. The Lojban map will have some similarities with the Chinese one, since they have similar methods of compounding tanru. It is unclear whether Lojban&#039;s unique grammar will cause any problems in learning its map. I suspect not.&lt;br /&gt;
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Whether second language learners are adequate candidates for a Sapir-Whorf test has been subject to debate. Some believe that proper use of controls will allow a significant Sapir-Whorf effect to be verified. Others believe that we won&#039;t be able to test Sapir-Whorf until we have speakers who are raised to be bilingual, or even monolingual in Lojban from birth. Such a requirement won&#039;t be viable for some years, of course (there have been small numbers of Esperanto &#039;native speakers&#039;, so it isn&#039;t unthinkable that Lojban will one day support &#039;natives&#039;, too.).&lt;br /&gt;
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The second half, on testing Sapir-Whorf, can&#039;t be fully answered. Jim Brown proposed a flawed approach in his new edition of Loglan 1. John Parks-Clifford (pc) has written on the subject a couple of times. See JL6, JL7, and the essays at the end of the last issue JL10, for details on the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
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Skepticism is valid and useful. We believe we&#039;ve created a tool that will display Sapir-Whorf effects if there are any, and which is sufficiently independent of natural language to allow isolation of effects to determine if their cause is a Sapir-Whorf effect, or something else. The problem now is to build a speaker base, and develop the means of measuring any perceived effect and ruling out non- Sapir-Whorf causes. Skeptics are the best source of people to poke holes in inadequate methods. (I should note that pc, our most &#039;forward&#039; methodologist at this point, does not believe that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is valid. Truly a healthy skepticism for an experiment like this.)&lt;br /&gt;
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4. Once Lojban comes to be used as an instrument of communication, won&#039;t idioms naturally develop, thereby undermining its designed explicitness? The development of idioms is a natural phenomenon in any language that is actually used. And yet idioms are, arguable, the products of the culture-community of those who use a language. Wouldn&#039;t the inevitable emergence of idioms and &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; defeat some of the purposes for which Lojban was created?&lt;br /&gt;
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Consequently, students asked, wouldn&#039;t Lojban be contaminated by the cultures of those who used it--and, as a result, lose not only some of its explicitness and univocality, but also some of its cultural neutrality?&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: The development of idiom and slang is not well understood, although it is perceived to be uni- versal. The processes of slang development may indeed be a measurable Sapir-Whorf effect. What type of idiom, if any, develops in Lojban, and to what extent is explicitness lost? We&#039;ll certainly find out.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has, by the way, a methodology for importing words from other languages by borrowing. these words are considered &#039;2nd class&#039; words already, and hence slang of a sort. Yet they will be the basis for labelling foods, animals, plants, chemicals, indeed all manner of jargon words and concrete terms that have minimal semantic associations. Lojban &#039;slang&#039;, will, like names, probably never really acquire deep semantic associations. It will probably tend to be avoided where possible, since borrowings tend to be longer, less clear, and harder to combine into compounds, than other words.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban slang, in the creative sense of the word, will probably turn towards the creation of new tanru for old ideas. In this way the basic semantic mapping will slowly drift to keep the rigid place structures in line with usage. There will probably be evolution of place structures as well, but it isn&#039;t clear how significant this will be. Probably the occurrence of such drift will be tied to the formation of that peculiarly Lojbanic culture that we discussed above.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is not, by the way, inherently explicit. It has an elaborate, carefully thought out, or at least much debated, system for ellipsis. I suspect that Lojban idiom will occur in the direction of simplification through the use of ellipsis, and that therefore, the idiom won&#039;t really mean anything other than what it says. If you want a non- idiomatic reading of the same predicate, you will fill in the non-obvious places normally omitted by the idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban will, to some extent, borrow idioms from natural language cultures, when those idioms are compatible with Lojban grammar and semantics. This isn&#039;t necessarily bad, as long as the borrowing isn&#039;t excessive (turning the language into a code), or linked to one particular culture (causing a bias).&lt;br /&gt;
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Eventually, Lojban will (hopefully) indeed become a &#039;natural language&#039; in the sense of having its own culture. If the culture is built by native-speaking Lojbanists, this culture would be the subject of massive sociological and linguistic experimentation, and we would know the answer on Sapir-Whorf. This indeed is the most desirable test for Sapir-Whorf, and methodology questions are generally based on the assumption that we want to know the answer before, and whether or not, such a culture comes to exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Students seemed to be obsessed with the idea that languages are contaminated (or enriched) by culture. Lojban as presented seems innocent of culture. Yet if it were to be used it would be &amp;quot;corrupted&amp;quot; by culture and would therefore escape the intentions of its architects, in particular through the emergence of idioms and slang.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response (brief for once): I hope more than anything else that Lojban grows beyond my meager conceptions and intentions for its potential, and develops its own unique culture. Language is a bigger thing than any one person or small group can control; the French Academy knows this for sure. We have resisted Brown&#039;s attempt to create a Loglan/Lojban Academy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope merely to channel our loss of control away from destructive trends. But if they occur anyway, we still learn something.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. When languages are used, webs of connotative relations emerge: every natural language reflects in this way the history of the community of those who have used it. One signified (rose) suggests another signified in another semantic field (say, romance), which suggests any number of other signifieds. See Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System.&amp;quot; In any language actually used this web of a-logical relations would emerge. Wouldn&#039;t the emergence of such a web, in the community of speakers of Lojban, undermine its claims to be culturally neutral, fully explicit, unambiguous, and so on?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: If the web develops totally internally, from a spontaneous cultural development, it would not violate cultural neutrality. I&#039;ve already said that Lojban need not be explicit, nor, especially in the area of tanru, is Lojban semantically unambiguous. I think that we have retained enough flexibility in the creative aspects of Lojban to make the internal cultural development of such a web consistent with the areas that we have kept rigid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, we have retained, primitives chosen by Jim Brown for body parts, animals, and materials that are metaphorically used by many cultures; yes, even &#039;rose&#039;. We recognize that they are the potential seeds of bias. Because we know these words are there, we can watch for their use and guide the community away from biased use in- sofar as we can recognize it. If the canary dies, we&#039;ll be wary of poison.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Languages in use cannot be stabilized: they develop organically through usage by a community, adapting themselves to the needs of their speakers. Wouldn&#039;t that be the case with Lojban? What would be the consequences ofthis inevitable organic development?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: I think this was answered in response to 4. and 5., with a little hint in the last question. While I don&#039;t see a Lojban Academy trying to prevent organic development, there may be an organization trying to keep the development moving in a positive direction. This has generally been the function of poets; more recently of English teachers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that we have talked about &#039;baselining&#039; the language only long enough to ensure that critical mass exists internally among speakers of the language to resist external forces for change. We don&#039;t mind change if it is done by Lojban speakers thinking in and using their language in the way they choose. That is how culture develops.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, except in vocabulary growth, I think that linguistic drift has drastically slowed in the 20th century due to the printed word, nearly universal education, and mass communication. Where drift exists,language has tended towards uniformity among speakers rather than variation - hence the increasing use of &amp;quot;The Queen&#039;s English&amp;quot; dialect in Britain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Is the syntax devised for Lojban truly culturally neutral? Derived as it was from the formal logic that has evolved in Western European culture, what claims does it have to cultural neutrality? In Whorf&#039;s essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (enclosed), Whorf wonders whether our logic is truly universal. Does it really derive from something other than an analysis of the shape of thought constrained by Indo-European languages like Greek, Latin, German, and English? Whorf&#039;s article implies that we would possess a very different &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; had our science been bequeathed to us by the American Indians rather than the Western Europeans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: Predicate logic is probably not culturally neutral, nor the assumptions that would cause it to be valued. This is the essence of Brown&#039;s original concept for Loglan/Lojban in a Sapir-Whorf experiment:that metaphysical assumptions and cultural biases be kept to a minimums so that the one extreme bias causes an undeniably significant change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Brown started, we&#039;ve identified other potential sources of Sapir-Whorf effects, most notably the elimination of constraints on thought that develops from our minimization of metaphysical assumptions (like singular/plural and us/them distinctions). These effects WOULD BE culturally neutral, and probably would show up in spite of minor biases other than the big &#039;L&#039; logic bias.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(John Parks-Clifford notes that the content of formal logic, if not the exact form, was independently derived in India and to a lesser extent in China. Every problem in Western logic turned up and was solved in India. Chinese logical thought was equally sophisticated, but its development was aborted after only a few decades, by political turmoil rather than by direct cultural rejection, and never re-emerged. Meanwhile, the Western form embraces contributions from Arabic as well as European sources. Logic was chosen as the basis for Lojban due to its simplicity of structure as well as for predictably significant Sapir-Whorf effects.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that while logic is not the only strong force guiding Lojban development that stems from Western thought.Other forces include the counters to logic such as &#039;liberty&#039;, &#039;free choice&#039;, and &#039;romantic ideals&#039;. Funny that no one worries about these forces destroying Lojban&#039;s cultural neutrality. Maybe we should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For that matter, as this question implies, modern science and the interest in the question of whether the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true also are based on Western tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think this type of question should be left for the philosophers, who may come up with a useful answer.Otherwise, in the extreme, we end up questioning whether the fact that we do our science the way we do causes the universe we observe to change, making the observations, and the science thus invalid. Sort of a Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle on a grand scale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science is valuable as an endeavor if it gives useful results. Does knowing more about the nature of language give useful results? If Lojban is a language, will studying it teach us more about language? Does the fact that we&#039;ve defined some measurable control on the design of the language improve the chances that we can learn useful information from study Lojban? If the answer to these questions is &#039;yes&#039;, then Lojban will be worthwhile as a project, and valuable to those who learn it, those who study it, and the world that will be affected by it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Course Outline and Bibliography ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
January, 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TELL-TALE SIGNS:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An Introduction to Semiology&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Required Texts:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Marshall Blonsky, ed., On Signs (Baltimore, 1985): selections from Blonsky&#039;s collection will be marked with the letter &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other readings to be distributed in class: these readings will be marked with an asterisk (*) in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
SCHEDULE&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 8/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 9/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
INTRODUCTION: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;social Life as a Sign System,&amp;quot; from David Robey, ed., Structuralism: An Introduction (1973), pp. 57-72.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Pierre Guiraud, Semiology (1975), pp. 1-4 and 82-98.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE WHORFIAN HYPOTHESIS: LANGUAGES AS WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
: *Benjamin Whorf, &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (1940), Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, ed. John B. Carroll (1956), pp. 207-219.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Clyde Kluckhohn, &amp;quot;The Gift of Tongues,&amp;quot; Mirror for Man (1949); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language, Fourth Edition (1974), ed. Wallace L. Anderson and N. C. Stageberg, pp. 38-47.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 10/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;How Culture Conditions the Colours We See,&amp;quot; B 157-715.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Anthony G. Wheeler, &amp;quot;Pitfalls of Perception,&amp;quot; The Skeptical Inquirer, Summer, 1988; rpt. in The Utne Reader, Sept./Oct. 1989, p. 100.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HOW LANGUAGES WORD AS SIGN-SYSTEMS&lt;br /&gt;
:*F. de Sussure, Course in General Linguistics, pp. 7-17, 65-78, 111-122.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Takao Suzuki, Words in Context: A Japanese Perspective on Language and Culture (1984), pp. 7-44.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 11/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ARTIFICIAL LANGUAGES: THE ATTEMPT TO ESCAPE CULTURE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Read these selections in the order indicated. Try to get a sense of how each of these languages sounds and how each &amp;quot;works&amp;quot; as a way of expressing ideas. Where the texts tell you how to pronounce words and phrases, try it on your own. Where the readings provide texts in the languages and literal translation, examine these carefully. In examining the Esperanto passages look for words that you recognize from your knowledge of English, Spanish, French, and other European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --ESPERANTO&lt;br /&gt;
: *George Cox, &amp;quot;Preface to the First Edition&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;L&#039;Espero,&amp;quot; A Grammar and Commentary on the International Language Esperanto, Second Edition, pp. v-xvii and xx-xxi.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Arthur Baker, &amp;quot;The Alphabet,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Sounds,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Exercise 1,&amp;quot; The American Esperanto Book (1907), pp. 7-11 and 78-80.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Baker, &amp;quot;Rules of the Grammar,&amp;quot; pp. 12-18.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Cox, &amp;quot;Conversation (Interparolado),&amp;quot; pp. 311-315.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --LOGLAN/LOJBAN&lt;br /&gt;
: *Don Oldenburg, &amp;quot;Tongue-Twister of a Language,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle: Sunday punch, Nov. 26, 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; Scientific American, June, 1960, pp. 52-63.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;What is Lojban? (la lojban mo),&amp;quot; 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;Translation of Lesson 6 Reading Text: lenu vitke lei rarna (Visiting Nature),&amp;quot; [Lojban Textbook] (1989), 6.43-6.46.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 15/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: DUE: ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY. Hand in a xerox of your annotated bibliography (keep a copy for yourself).&lt;br /&gt;
: Consult the Borzoi Handbook to refresh your memory on the proper form for entries in a bibliography. Annotate each entry: after reviewing the item, briefly describe it and explain how it might be useful to you in your investigation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A MODEL OF COMMUNICATION&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: T. Sebeok, &amp;quot;Pandora&#039;s Box: How and Why to Communicate 10,000 Years into the Future,&amp;quot; B 448-466.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SIGN-THEORY&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, first part of &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-7 (to middle of the page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 16/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SEMIOLOGY AS A METHOD OF ANALYSIS&lt;br /&gt;
: New York Times, &amp;quot;What&#039;s the real message of &#039;Casablanca&#039;? Or of a Rose?&amp;quot; B 424-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Wlad Godzich, &amp;quot;The Semiotics of Semiotics,&amp;quot; B 421-26 only (you need not read beyond Sec. 2: &amp;quot;On Cowboy Boots&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;When Cains of Difference Intersect: A Lesson,&amp;quot; B 441-43.&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;Casablanca, or the Cliches are Having a Ball,&amp;quot; B 35-38. (Think of Who Killed Roger Rabbit?, as well as Casablanca, if you have seen them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second Half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 17/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *P. Guiraud, Semiology, 82-98: review.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System&amp;quot;: review.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: INTRODUCTION TO BODY LANGUAGE&lt;br /&gt;
: *Charles Downey, &amp;quot;A Guide to No-Fail Flirting,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle, May 17,1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot; (1971); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 318-29.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa&amp;quot; (1961), rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 330-35.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 18/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: READING OTHER CULTURES&lt;br /&gt;
: Jean Franco, &amp;quot;Killing Priests, Nuns, Women, Children,&amp;quot; B 414-20&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;The Way of Masks,&amp;quot; B 186-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Review:&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 22/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: LOOKING AT MODERN CULTURE: BECOMING AWARE OF &amp;quot;CULTURE&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: P. Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 99-104.&lt;br /&gt;
: Roland Barthes, Mythologies (1972), pp. 9-12, 50-52, 58-64, 84-87, and 109-31.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 23/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: U. Eco, &amp;quot;Strategies of Lying,&amp;quot; B 3-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Edmundo Desnoes, &amp;quot;Cuba Made Me So,&amp;quot; B 384-402.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Introduction . . .,&amp;quot; B xxvii-xxxv and xl-xliv.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 24/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: MARKETING AS APPLIED SEMIOLOGY&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Semiotics in the Marketplace,&amp;quot; B 434-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Milton Glaser, &amp;quot;I Listen to the Market, &amp;quot; B 467-75.&lt;br /&gt;
: Ronald Weintraub, &amp;quot;Lifting the Veil,&amp;quot; B 475-480.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Matthew Klein, &amp;quot;And Above All, Please Do Not Disturb,&amp;quot; B 481-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 25/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: HOW THE MEDIA (RE-)CREATE THE EVENTS THEY REPORT&lt;br /&gt;
: Daniel Dayan and Elihu Katz, &amp;quot;Electronic Ceremonies: Television Performs a Royal Wedding,&amp;quot; B 16-32.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Feb 1/ SIGN-SYSTEMS: CULTURE-BOUND WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Scholes, &amp;quot;Is There a Fish in This Text?&amp;quot; B 308-320.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michel de Certeau, &amp;quot;The Jabbering of Social Life,&amp;quot; B 146-54.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was written by Ralph Dumain over a year ago. We haven&#039;t printed it until now, because, as a bibliography relating to Sapir-Whorf, it is incomplete in omitting some of the basic references needed to understand what the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is. Dr. Gorsch&#039;s course outline at least partially remedies this. Readers seeking more on Sapir-Whorfshould also investigate the bibliography of either edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bibliography on Language and Thought ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Ralph Dumain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The question of the relation of thought to language is a multifaceted one and has been approached by such disciplines as philosophy, linguistics proper, sociology of language, sociology, anthropology, psychology, political science, and educational policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This selected bibliography is not representative of the field of language and cognition as a whole, nor of its historical evolution, nor of its most current work, nor of its most significant contributions. I have selected, in a nonsystematic way, works which illustrate different angles from which the issue may be considered and which illuminate the problems to be confronted. This bibliography reflects my interest in the high-level aspects of language and cognition, e.g.. the strong version of Whorf&#039;s hypothesis [the world view issue], particularly the human ability to formulate and critique concepts. For me, the issue of the ability to form and interrelate abstract concepts is exclusively an issue of semantics. The practical and political issue is the mastery of word meanings and the conquest of the opacity of semantic systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Omitted are works by William Labov and Basil Bernstein, two of the foremost researchers of the 1960&#039;s on issues of cognitive ability and social dialects. Bernstein was a pioneer in the comparison of standard English vs. British working class dialects, the formulation of the notions of elaborated and restricted code, and the investigation of different uses of language as social reinforcements. Labov presented a wealth of ethnographic data to prove that ghetto-dwelling Black Americans using so-called Black English were perfectly capable of abstract thinking, refuting assertions to the contrary. Labov also used transformational-generative grammar to analyze the syntax of Black English and to refute superstitions about linguistic deficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides paying more attention to recent developments in linguistic theory, one must also delve into the pragmatics of language more thoroughly, where much of the hidden dynamics of language and social control lie. There is much in the literature of philosophy, especially philosophy of science, that bears upon the tacit assumptions of Loglan ideologists about the nature of language, the limits to thought, the role of formal logic, and the nature of creativity and novelty in the progress of thought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Annotated Bibliography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bisseret, Noelle (1979) - Education, Class Language and Ideology. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul.&lt;br /&gt;
: Bisseret examines the views of sociologists of language who analyze class dialects, such as Basil Bernstein.Bisseret asserts that the logicality and coherence of the world belong to the dominant class.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Carroll, John B. (1964) - Language and Thought. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, Inc. See chapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and cognition&amp;quot;, esp. the section &amp;quot;The linguistic-relativity hypothesis&amp;quot; (p. 106-110).&lt;br /&gt;
: Carroll is skeptical of the strong Whorfian thesis. Evidence is lacking that grammatical differences between languages signify cognitive differences. He gives examples to show misleading extrapolations based only on linguistic evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chomsky, Noam (1973) - See Schaff, Adam.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Friedrich, Paul (1979) - Language, Context, and the Imagination: Essays by Paul Friedrich, selected and introduced byAnwar S. Dil. Stanford: Stanford University Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Friedrich disagrees with Whorf&#039;s views on language and metaphysics, but accepts the strong thesis in the realm ofpoetic language and its relation to the imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gyekye, Kwame (1977) - &amp;quot;Akan language and the materialist thesis: a short essay on the relation between philosophy and language&amp;quot;, in Studies in Language, vol. 1, no. 2, p. 237-244.&lt;br /&gt;
: Gyekye opposes linguistic relativity in philosophy. Examples are given of mentalistic linguistic expressions in English which are expressed physicalistically in Akan. A linguistic relativist would conclude that the Akan people are materialists, yet Akan ontology is actually dualistic, with an absolute distinction between body and soul.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Havranek, Bohuslav (1964) - &amp;quot;The functional differentiation of the standard language&amp;quot;, in: A Prague School Reader on Esthetics, Literary Structure, and Style, selected and translated from Czech by Paul L. Garvin. Washington: Georgetown University Press; p. 3-16.&lt;br /&gt;
: On lexical and syntactic aspects of standard vs. folk speech, different modes of utilization of the devices of language, intellectualization, automatization and foregrounding. Intellectualization of language makes possible precision, rigor, and abstractness. Syntactic devices enable an integrated structure of sentences. Automatization is the creation of conventional expressions with definite meanings; once established, an automatization does not attract attention to itself linguistically. Foregrounding is the use of language (usually uncommon) that attracts attention to itself, e.g.. live poetic metaphor. An expression automatized in one context may be foregrounded in another. Automatizations of science are different from those in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
: This article is important for two complementary reasons: (1) It proposes requisites of intellectual language,especially the ability to express abstractions, which I believe is the key issue in being able to formulate and change one&#039;s world view; (2) automatization, in creating conventional expressions, not only makes possible the expression of concepts, but an automatization as such is no longer metaphorically alive and so no longer binds a thought to its particular linguistic expression (thus negating a putative Whorfian limitation on thought).&lt;br /&gt;
: Foregrounding is relevant to Loglan because as Loglan is entirely new, there are no cliches, no tiresome or worn expressions. Loglan seems poetic to some of its propagandists because the entire language is foregrounded. What might otherwise be banal seems to be exquisitely poetic. Whorf foregrounded Hopi grammar, making it a source of live metaphors for him if not for the Hopi themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jackendoff, Ray (1983) - Semantics and Cognition. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Deals with grammatical constraint, semantic structure and conceptual structure, and theory of representation. This reference is included not as an endorsement of a particular semantic theory but as an example of one of the more sophisticated recent treatments of semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kahane, Henry and Renee (1984) - &amp;quot;Linguistic aspects of sociopolitical keywords&amp;quot;, in Language Problems and Language Planning, vol. 8, no. 2, p. 143-160.&lt;br /&gt;
: The Kahanes examine the semantics of ideologically loaded words (keywords) and the processes by which they evolve over time. I think that ideological semantic systems create the most crucial biases in language, and so this article is important.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lakoff, George and Johnson, Mark (1980) - Metaphors We Live By. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: The authors make an important study of the metaphorical basis of language. In the final chapters they argue for an extreme relativism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Langacker, Ronald W. (1976) - &amp;quot;Semantic representations and the linguistic relativity hypothesis&amp;quot;, in Foundations of Language, vol. 14, p. 307-357.&lt;br /&gt;
: Langacker tries to formulate the hypothesis in a non-vacuous manner, and ultimately rejects the strong version,basing himself on a distinction between primary conceptual structures and the semantic representations into which thought is coded. Langacker uses the framework of generative semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Levitas, Maurice (1974) - Marxist Perspectives in the Sociology of Education. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul. Seechapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and deprivation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: Levitas articulates the basic ideas of Vygotsky&#039;s view of language and thought and its educational implications.He accepts Vygotsky&#039;s view that word-meaning is the unit of verbal thought. Using Vygotsky and Luria, Levitas argues that working class children must be helped to master the elaborated code and to achieve in linguistic expression freedom from the context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Macnamara, John. 1970. &amp;quot;Bilingualism and thought&amp;quot;, in Georgetown University Round Table on Languages and Linguistics 1970: Bilingualism and Language Contact, edited by James E. Alatis; Washington: Georgetown University Press; p.25-45.&lt;br /&gt;
: Includes discussion by other participants. The inadequacies of Whorf&#039;s formulations are analyzed. Macnamara urgently emphasizes the need for a semantic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newmeyer, Frederick J. (1983) - Grammatical Theory: Its Limits and Its Possibilities. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Newmeyer clarifies the nature and intent of generative linguistics, answering common objections. Newmeyer deals with distinctive advantages of generative linguistics, its potential applications, and the role of other types of linguistics that deal with aspects of language outside of the reach of grammatical theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986a) - The Politics of Linguistics. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: This is an excellent treatment of the history of linguistics and its internal and external politics. Newmeyer attacks Whorf&#039;s notions about grammar and world view and gives practical examples of Whorfianism&#039;s racist implications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986b) - Linguistic Theory in America. 2nd edition. Orlando: Academic Press, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
: This differs from the first edition in that it abridges treatment of earlier developments such as rise of abstract syntax and generative semantics in the late 1960&#039;s while adding information on recent developments. This book gives a feel for the problems and evolution of theories, and shows how the rise and fall of competing theories or versions of a theory come about as responses to real problems. A reader can also see that Chomsky&#039;s particular theoretical formulations form only part (and not always the most influential current) of the stream of modern linguistic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rossi-Landi, Ferruccio (1973) - Ideologies of Linguistic Relativity. The Hague: Mouton.&lt;br /&gt;
: This book analyzes the shortcomings of and the ideology behind the doctrine of linguistic relativity, including the white liberal guilt about Indians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Schaff, Adam (1973) - Language and Cognition. Translated by Olgierd Wojtasiewicz; edited by Robert S. Cohen;introduction by Noam Chomsky. New York: McGraw-Hill. [Originally published in Polish, 1964.]&lt;br /&gt;
: Chomsky&#039;s introduction is a valuable critique of Whorf and of superficial understanding of languages. He shows that the imputation to a language of a conceptual system about time based on its tense system does not hold up to examination. The English tense system with its use of verbal auxiliaries (including modals) suggests a different conception of time than idea of time characteristic of modern English-speaking and other European peoples.&lt;br /&gt;
: Schaff gives a history of ideas (mostly in philosophy) about language and thought from 18th century German idealism, through Neo kantianism, conventionalism, logical positivism, to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and then adds his own thoughts on the matter. Brown&#039;s Scientific American article on Loglan is referenced in the bibliography but is not mentioned in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vygotsky, Lev (1986) - Language and Thought. 2nd edition. Translation newly revised and edited by Alex Kozulin.Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Vygotsky was a pioneer in the area of developmental psychology, language and thought.&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said in one response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class questions that I hoped that Lojban would move beyond the ideas that I had for it. It already has. The following essay describes a potential use for Lojban that I never had thought of,and have absolutely no experience that would help me form an opinion on its viability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I won&#039;t. Let&#039;s let David speak for himself. I welcome other&#039;s comments on his ideas, and I&#039;ll print any that seem of general interest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing ==&lt;br /&gt;
by David C. Morrow&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stream of consciousness, or subjective writing, was developed by Joyce, Proust, Woolf, Faulkner, and others to convey a character&#039;s immediate awareness and mental activities (an &amp;quot;interior monolog&amp;quot;). Leon Edel, who terms works using it &amp;quot;Modern Psychological Novels,&amp;quot; lists four salient elements.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each work or section of a work takes the consistent viewpoint of a single character. The reader must puzzle out what is happening from the character&#039;s interior monolog. Time moves according to the associations of the character&#039;s thoughts and memories rather than a simple linear flow. Finally, although authors using this mode are realists, these very devices force them to be symbolists in order to create the impression of being alive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is the second and fourth elements that present problems for author and reader. Part of the difficulty is that persons whose background enables them to enjoy piecing together the subtle but objective clues of mystery novels may not be so adept at empathizing with other&#039;s feelings or seeing the clues that reveal them. About that the writer can do little but keep following (or decide not to follow) his or her artistic bent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But these complex puzzles hold difficulties even for persons who enjoy them that their creators may not have foreseen. It is hard enough to show the thoughts of individuals contemporary to a reader; when a novel has become non contemporary, like those of the writers mentioned above, or is about an earlier time (consider McKinlay Kantor&#039;s Andersonville, written in the 1950&#039;s and intended to represent the consciousness of participants in the War Between the States) the difficulty is increased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because, for example, few modern persons depend on horses for transportation and so most lack the associations with them or the knowledge of their behavior that must have been common to people at and before the turn of the Twentieth Century. The same might apply to candles or to certain foods. Again, the little sidelines of style and fashion, the political and social quirks and nuances of a time, like geographical localisms, would figure large in the mind of a participant yet disappear even from historical footnotes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if a storyteller can discover and work there into a character&#039;s mind, they may require as much explanation as unfamiliar elements in an old text. During the 1982 and 1986 episodes of murder by poisoned Tylenol capsules, offering someone -- stranger, boss, spouse -- that medicine carried a host of special if temporary meanings. To one not alive then, the unexplained appearance of such an incident in a story set in those years would be puzzling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same thing must apply even to ordinary narrative writing about members of another culture; the readers may not be as familiar with that life-way as the author. This often forces the artist to employ what are supposed to be common human traits, such as romantic love, that may not be common at all; Classical cultures regarded romantic love as a form of lunacy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Historical writers, who are nearly always depicting foreign cultures even when their setting is the recognizable antecedent of the readers&#039; own, generally commit such anachronisms. Often they make their story accessible by depicting &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; characters in rebellion against their culture. That device is an anachronism in most cases, since tolerance even of one&#039;s own nonconformity is largely a Modern Western value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subjective writing might serve better in depicting social changes. One might wish to show why history took this turn once and another when a like situation again arose, or to examine through the eyes of characters, who likely did not intend their actions&#039; present results, the origin of some philosophical or religious idea. An example of this last might be someone who realized that human sacrifice does not necessarily make the crops grow or that paternity is part of reproduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Such persons&#039; concepts and motives would differ so vastly from ours that even were an author to reconstruct their consciousness with a degree of accuracy, the story value would be lost because it would be difficult for readers to untangle them without corresponding scholarship. Unless, that is, there were also some such way of clarifying them as anchoring description in physical reality as we know it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When a character in a subjective narrative lacks knowledge or understanding the author may juxtapose some other person&#039;s viewpoint or even an omniscient one. Faulkner used both to clarify his retarded character Benjy&#039;s innocent and atemporal impressions, and Durrell provided an entire volume of his Quartet with the omniscient viewpoint on one character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This would not be enough in many cases. If the characters have very primitive ideas, believing, say, that the sun is a beetle or that there is no natural death but that everyone always dies of injury or sorcery, then much of their thinking -- the internal monolog comprising the story narrative -- would seem ridiculous or psychotic if not incomprehensible. In this case it would not help to play one character&#039;s consciousness off against another&#039;s, since they would all share the same assumptions even if their intellects differed. The use of a deliberate anachronism would only work for current readers, even when dealing with contemporary characters, since nobody can know with what values or types future readers will identify. Only objective narrative of some type will enable one to make such a tale both universal and particular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is where Lojban can be useful. A writer could use a natural language to construct a symbolic flow of consciousness belonging to the characters, filled with verifiable and if necessary imagined elements, impressions, feelings, and motives. Linguistic devices can be used, and purely idiosyncratic character traits developed within a strange conceptual frame.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clarify what is objectively happening or convey meanings of invented symbols and transitory elements without interrupting the story&#039;s dramatic movement, and do so in a way that will (we hope) remain accessible to future readers, the writer can use lojban to describe the physical setting, the movements, the actions, even in some cases the dialog of the characters whose interior monolog is in some artificially specialized form of English -- or French, or Spanish, or whatever. Lojban descriptions may either be given in separate chapters or sections, or interspersed with the streams of characters&#039; awareness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not only would this provide the readers an anchor in relating the characters&#039; minds to theirs, but also in the case of completely abnormal persons in alien cultures allow insight into their minds. Finally, the story could retain its unity as an artistic whole without anachronisms or intrusions from outside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Michael Helsem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of this issue&#039;s Lojban writing comes from one person. This is partially due to space and time, and partially because Michael Helsem has been so prolific in Lojban over the past few months. Michael has taken to heart what I&#039;ve said too many times: the language is easy to learn if you just try to use it. The writings in this issue prove that point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You&#039;ve seen a couple pieces of Michael&#039;s work in JL10, written before Michael ordered the textbook lessons last fall. Michael wrote the following after reading Lesson 4, which calls for a student to write a self-description; it wasn&#039;t particularly grammatical, as you&#039;ll see in the translation section which shows what he actually wrote. We didn&#039;t get a chance to provide feedback to Michael until after JL10 was out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Michael received JL10 in late January, he had still not had direct feedback from us. However, seeing his own article saying that Lojban could be used to write poetry, Michael took up his own challenge. We had 2 limericks and 2 longer poems in February. Although he had merely finished the lessons, the JL10 samples gave Michael enough good examples of good Lojban that I had only to change two or three words in each to make the grammar correct. These poems are also printed below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally we responded to Michael&#039;s self-description with Nora&#039;s detailed review, which is given in the translation section. I have since gotten a letter from Michael every week or two - 2 or 3 pages handwritten in Lojban (with interlinear translations - please don&#039;t send me untranslated Lojban until we both know that you are writing nearly error free. Otherwise, if your Lojban isn&#039;t close to correct, we&#039;ll get extremely confused, and if it&#039;s reasonably close, we won&#039;t be able to comment on subtle shades of meaning - we have to take the Lojban as meaning what you intend). The lot includes a couple more poems, and a couple of typewritten sheets of &#039;poetic tanru&#039;. While there are occasional malglico anglicisms, Michael has in 6 months and about 5 or 6 writing attempts become about as good a Lojban writer as there is outside of those few of us working on defining the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has done this only with the level 3 materials including only the 6 textbook lessons so far published, and the outdated cmavo list. While he has studied other languages, Michael is not a linguist. He does not have LogFlash or flash cards - he&#039;s learning the vocabulary by using it. But I don&#039;t mind it a bit if someone gets a word wrong because they don&#039;t yet know it. You can&#039;t learn a language without making mistakes and learning from them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s that easy - you have to be willing to try writing a couple times, and wait for us to review them (which will get easier as we get more of you up to Michael&#039;s level of proficiency), read the examples printed in these newsletters, and then write a little more - in a few months you&#039;ll be writing as good Lojban as Michael is (no - I&#039;m not promising to make you a publishable poet in a couple of months - just a reasonably competent Lojbanist).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let&#039;s see some more Lojban from the 100 other level 3 Lojbanists, most of whom I haven&#039;t heard from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Self-Description (28 Sept 1989) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra .itu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi.zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys. .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani.ibabo ca le ko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti .ibabotezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loikavidni cu&#039;i .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a caranji toi .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenuko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pufinti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o rinalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa leci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Included in the self-description letter, was a postscript, also in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first two limericks were Michael&#039;s first attempts at original Lojban poetry after the self-description. They each needed a little work, but his errors were minor. He wasn&#039;t too happy with the changes to the first one, since they end up stretching the rhyme and rhythm scheme to the limit of what is acceptable in a limerick. However, if you readwith the annotated stress given in the pronunciation guide, running the syllables together into a single beat where marked (or in one case running three syllables into two beats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As corrected)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            la .uorf. .e la saPIR. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            lenu loi rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i leva sidbo ca genytsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lah .WOHRF. .eh,lah,sah,PEER. poo,PEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -    /         ----,----     /     -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,NOO    loi,rehm,BAHN,goo,lei,MEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -   -      /    -   -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo SEEM,sah leh,kah LAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -----   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
            /gee,heh,PAH,mei nahl,BAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
              -----   /      -   -       /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee KOO,hee,leh,vah,SEED,bo,ca    GEHN,uh,tsee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /      -   -----   /       -  -     /   ------&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2. (Minor corrections approved by author)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            loi    ve cusku cu mo loi se cusku&lt;br /&gt;
            cumda&#039;i  .i    mi danfu lu le sisku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nitcu pa jaspu&lt;br /&gt;
             .uu  .i ku&#039;i na vasru&lt;br /&gt;
            fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /loi,veh,SHOOS,koo,shoo,MO,loi,seh,SHOOS,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /    -    -    /  -   -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoom,DAH,hee .    ee,mee DAHN,foo    loo,leh,SEES,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          -    /   -    -----    /    -      ----     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,NEE,choo,pah,ZHAHS,poo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /.woo.ee KOO,hee,nah,VAHS,roo/&lt;br /&gt;
               ----   /      -   -      /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /fah,REE    ree,khee,SHEE peh,hee LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -    -       /   -   -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3. (20 Mar 1990)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The third limerick was written after I gave him feedback on the first two, and received while I was typing thisnewsletter in. It was almost perfect as written. He had left out a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; and not terminated some &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clauses -mistakes I still make a lot - but his translation and his notes on intent made it trivial to fix them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            sei    lu leka    sarcu li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami&lt;br /&gt;
            cu nenri  .i RA mi se prami&lt;br /&gt;
             .i ku&#039;i le pratci&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nu sisti kei batci&lt;br /&gt;
            le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
        /sei,loo leh,kah,SAHR,shoo lee,hoo,SHMEH,neh nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lo,SHEEZ,rah,zah,SMOON,zheh lo,heh,SKAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /      -   -       /     -   ----    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoo,NEHN,ree .    ee,RAH mee,seh,PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /       -     -  /    -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
            /. ee KOO,hee,leh,PRAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /   -   -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,noo,SEES,tee,kei,BAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -----   /    -    -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,noon,MEHN,khroo . woo TA,hee loi,glah,SLAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /     -     -   /  -      ------    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first of these is Michael&#039;s translation from the Latin of Catallus, which he wrote on 26 Nov 1989, prior to receiving any feedback from us. His grammar had already improved significantly over the self-description, with most ofhis mistakes being wrong choices of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         seide&#039;e se    sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                         prami joi xebni fa mi&lt;br /&gt;
                          .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          do nu&#039;o cusku     .i mi&lt;br /&gt;
                           genai caca jimpe    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          gi ru&#039;i lifri    cai je&lt;br /&gt;
                            dunku ri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                   /sei,deh,heh     seh,SAHN,gah  bee,MUU,moi . nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                       /PRAH,mee,zhoi,KHEHB,nee  fah,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                   /. ee,LOO  lah,heh,DEE,hoo  kee,hah,vau  LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /doh     noo,ho     SHOOS,koo . ee    mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                    /geh,nai . SHAH,shah,ZHEEM,peh  lah,heh,DEH,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /gee,roo,hee     LEE,free  SHAI    zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
                             /DOON,koo ree/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next two poems were written at about the same time as the first two limericks (10 Feb 1990). These, however, are poems of some substance. For whatever reason, Michael made fewer and less serious errors in the longer poems than in the limericks:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              le firgai    pu&#039;u se    vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              fe zo pei    ca rapcpedu cai&lt;br /&gt;
              fa mi .ei    ne tai do pe pu    fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi vimcu ro lei firgai    levi&lt;br /&gt;
              sluni po&#039;u lonu djica .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
              ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i pu    najenai    ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
              mi djuno leri cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
              .a lo nalsti nu fasnu cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
              po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  LOHZH,bo,PEHM,shee gee,heh seh,SHMEH,neh  LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,FEER,gai  poo,hoo,seh,VEEM,shoo  vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /feh zo,PEI  shah,rahp,SHPEH,doo    SHAI/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fah,MEE    .EI  neh,tai,DOH,peh,poo  fee,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo,poh,hee  loi,so,HEE,plo  SEHN,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /.ee,mee,VEEM,shoo  ro,lei,FEER,gai  leh,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /SLOO,nee     po,hoo     lo,noo,JEE,shah . ee,SHEH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /ZHOO,hee,doh,hoo     ree,khee,REH  moo,zhuh,tee,suh,BAHN,ro    po,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,koo,hee  POO  nah,zheh,nai    SHAH,ku/&lt;br /&gt;
          /mee,JOO,no  leh,ree  shoo,muh,MEH,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh  leh,zhei  ree  seh,SKEE,shoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo  po,hee  lo,noo,KAHN,sah  kah,ZMAHK,see/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. AH  lo,NAHL,stee  noo,FAHS,noo     sheesh,CHEE,mah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /po,hah .    AH,sah,hoo  pah,DRAH,tah noo,kah,BEHB,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the following, Michael came close to perfection in grammar. He omitted only the hyphen &#039;r&#039;s in &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; in the final line, while inserting a couple of superfluous but permitted &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s that I left in to avoid changing his sound qualities any more than necessary (plus - as an editor, I prefer to defer to the author where possible). Of course, Michael&#039;s result differs slightly in meaning from the translation he gave me; however, since it is supposed to be Lojban poetry, I&#039;m letting the Lojban take precedence over the English, although I&#039;ll mention the changes needed to match his English translation in the appropriate section below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /loi,kah,ZVAH,tee     vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /tee,heh    lo,noo,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /beh  leh,MOO,heh     ke,LOON,rah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /kah,shoo,kluh,MOOL,no  shoo,KHAHM,goo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,KOO,hee  mee,DRAH,tah,SAHL,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,SKEE,nee,ree  leh,kah,MAHN,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh,lo    MEE,pree,noo,ZAH,stee .    eh . ah,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,noo    kah,VLEE,pah  po,hoo  ro,lo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /teh,PEHN,shoo beh,leh,MOON,zheh,seh,REEN,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,shah  leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /koo  leh,LOON,rah,SHOO,klah  shoo,BEEN,kho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,ree    PAH,mei,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,GO,hee     gee,heh,koo,hee,RO,roi/&lt;br /&gt;
          /poo  bee,hee,shah,ZGAH,nah  leh,mee,kah,NO,mei  zhee,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was dated 12 Mar 1990. It was perfectly grammatical as written, although we&#039;ve changed two lujvo minimally after discussion with Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
           /meh,lah     sah,PEER . wohrf . lee,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /ko  lei,doh,seh,MEEP,ree leh/&lt;br /&gt;
           /SOOT,rai,nahl,MOR,zhee,shah,DOON,dah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee,lo,NAHR,zhoo  zhoi,REEZH,no/&lt;br /&gt;
           /FAHS,noo,bah,SNOO,zhee    ro,lei,DRAH,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee  zo,heh  TAHG,zhee,LOHG,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has also sent me a couple of pages that he&#039;s created as exercises in making tanru and lujvo, but I&#039;ll save them for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Again, Greetings!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seinskicu noi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: The following has-the-same-identity-as, loosely speaking, the self-description which I write to-please my imminent book-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;seinskicu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;seirskicu&amp;quot;: You must glue on a CVV to the front of any lujvo, unless there are only two terms and the second term is a CCV. The &#039;glue&#039; is a vocalic &#039;r&#039; unless the second rafsi begins with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;, in which case use vocalic &#039;n&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; says the following gives further information to identify WHICH self-description is being talked about; &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; assumes you know which self-description is being talked about, and just gives incidental information about it. See Less. 5 &amp;amp; 6.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maikl. &#039;elsym. du lo lea zoi zy gnostik zy joi lo vazyjbe xabju be la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi .zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Long scope beginning) He, standing for Michael Helsem, is a-referrent-of &amp;quot;gnostik&amp;quot; and (is) a born-city- inhabitant of Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On &amp;quot;du...&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me...&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la maikl. &#039;elsym.&amp;quot; is not necessarily equal in identity to &amp;quot;a gnostic-and-there-born- dweller-of-Dallas&amp;quot;; there is a lot more to Michael Helsem than that, and probably there are other Gnostic natives of Dallas, too. What you want to say is that Michael Helsem IS a Gnostic..., like saying that this IS a letter (&amp;quot;ti xatra&amp;quot;). To do that, you want to make a selbri out of Gnostic, which you do with &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; changes the following quoted piece into it&#039;s referent.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; means the combination is true, but probably NOT each individually. For example, if we carry a piano up the stairs with you on one end and me on the other, NEITHER of us has individually carried it up (&amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;); but, both of us together have (&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vazyjbe&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u&amp;quot;: Just a suggestion [Michael agreed.] The &amp;quot;va&amp;quot; part doesn&#039;t really necessarily pick up Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael revised the preferred spelling of his name after reading a separate note from me. His original form is invalid, because &#039; is NOT an &#039;h&#039;, even though it is pronounced like one. The apostrophe is a vowel buffer, and is permitted only between two vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i bazi leko&#039;a nu jbena sei da&#039;i se&#039;u so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Shortly after the event of his being born, really, many fish fell from the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: This resets &#039;story&#039; time for all further discussion (until re-reset) to &amp;quot;shortly after the event of his being born&amp;quot;. Sentences coming after with no time referent are assumed to progress somewhat in time.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;le ko&#039;a nu jbena&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;his event of birth&amp;quot;, meaning an event of birth relating to him; possibly his son&#039;s birth. &amp;quot;le nu ko&#039;a jbena&amp;quot; makes it clear that the one being born was him.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; closes off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clause so it doesn&#039;t presume the &amp;quot;so&#039;i finpe&amp;quot; is another sumti on &amp;quot;jbena&amp;quot; of the clause. &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; is a discursive and therefore somewhat parenthetical to begin with. You can still close it in parentheses, but not with &amp;quot;sei...se&#039;u&amp;quot;, which takes a bridi (it is meant for a metalinguistic statement which is otherwise not permitted in the position because it would be ungrammatical); if you do want to put &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; in parentheses, you can use &amp;quot;to...toi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice ti&#039;u paci nanca ko&#039;a se pu darxi lo karce joi pu stali lo roktu&#039;u ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ca leko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Trans: Then, at-the-time-of his thirteenth year, he is hit be a car and will be stayingly-inside a rock-tube at- [unspecified size interval]-continuously several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ibabo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but implies nothing about the timing; for &amp;quot;and-then&amp;quot; you want &amp;quot;.ibabo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;, like a letter is dated with a certain date even though it was perhaps begun earlier and finished later, and it remains a letter even after. For &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;paci nanca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;thirteen years&amp;quot;, making your phrase into &amp;quot;dated thirteen years&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;thirteenth&amp;quot;, and prefacing by &amp;quot;leko&#039;a&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;his&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se pu darxi&amp;quot; is ungrammatical; it would have to be &amp;quot;pu se darxi&amp;quot;. However, since the time was already set as &amp;quot;in his thirteenth year&amp;quot;, the indication of past tense would mean something earlier than then: &amp;quot;During his thirteenth year, he earlier had ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pu stali lo roktu&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;remained a rock-tube&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&amp;quot;: Once again, you don&#039;t want &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. The tense I put in I would not expect you to have built, but it does mean during.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice tezu&#039;enai leke za&#039;i pu cfari bancycu&#039;e tai lo se ctuca po&#039;u ratske kei ko&#039;a pu fanmo se du&#039;a lo ckulypikta po&#039;u zu&#039;o vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo tezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loika vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, ungoaled-by [i.e. despite] the state of startingly-attending the beyond-school by method of a taught-one of atom-science, he was complete and was given a school-ticket of videonesses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;leke...&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is not needed since it all groups the same with or without. The &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end will end the clause by ending the &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; abstraction. (The ending cmavo for &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; was changed to &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; anyway.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;za&#039;i cfari bancycu&#039;e&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;state of startingly being-a-college&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; (now &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;) takes a sumti; &amp;quot;ratske&amp;quot; is a selbri. You need a descriptor to turn it into a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fanmo&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;is-an-end-of&amp;quot;, like &amp;quot;le fanmo&amp;quot; of a rope. &amp;quot;mulno&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is-complete&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se du&#039;a...&amp;quot;: I guess you could use this form. It is a lot more vague than my suggested change.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zu&#039;o vidni&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;activity of being a video [screen]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot;: have you considered &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot; (student)? [he hadn&#039;t and asked us to change all occurrences of &amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice ko&#039;a pu litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ko&#039;a litru ji&#039;i re tumplita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via approximately two land-planes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via two land-planes, loosely speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; is a discursive; discursives apply to text metalinguistically. In your usage, &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; was applying to your tanru for continents, and not to the number two. For &amp;quot;approximately&amp;quot; to apply to the &amp;quot;two&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael responded that his intent was metalinguistic - he was &#039;loosely speaking&#039;, and that he preferred &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot;.I&#039;m not sure whether the result means quite what he intends, but it isn&#039;t necessarily &#039;wrong&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ica&#039;o ko&#039;a ki pu vi&#039;o zgikei pi&#039;o skami je damri .ui to joi ca toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a ca ranji toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Incidentally, he did occasionally music-play with a computer and [with] drums, (whee!) (additionally now continuing).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: Without a specific time reference to reset to, this jumps back to current time. Since the timing of this and following pieces was not clearly specified as continuing in progression from previous events, I will specify these specifically and only in reference to the present.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; not needed since the first place of &amp;quot;zgikei&amp;quot; (based on &amp;quot;kelci&amp;quot;) would be what is played on/with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;je&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;: Again, like &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;, I assume it is true of each separately, and not that you played music on your computer-drum.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;: I used this to close off the sentence so the &amp;quot;.ui&amp;quot; would apply to the sentence as a whole. Generally it applies only to the preceding word, or following a structural cmavo, the construct that the preceding word initiates or closes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi ca&amp;quot; is not grammatical as a complete utterance, unfortunately. I rephrased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i ko&#039;a neke lo se ctuca po&#039;u la vitgenctain. joi la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba kei .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri nuke tirna le nike ko&#039;a pifyzifydi&#039;a la&#039;u panononono rupnu .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenu ko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: He, a taught-one relating to Wittgenstein and the Latin love-poem-makers, (indignation), once did experience the event of hearing the event of his being prisoner-free be-priced by dollars in-amount-of 10000 (strong surprise).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;: These have been switched, probably after you wrote this. Since we in the class found that the non-restrictive qualifier was used a lot more than the appositive, we made it the shorter word, &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. Thus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(incidentally) is/does/is-related-to-in-some-manner&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is incidentally the same identity as&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; have been switched (used later in the sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ke lo...kei&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; does group some things, but they are always selbri; it is ungrammatical before a sumti. The&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase is closed by a sometimes-elidable &amp;quot;ge&#039;u&amp;quot;, so I have used that instead of the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; that isn&#039;t allowed there either.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I rephrased the last piece. The literal translation would otherwise have been (after putting &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; before the &amp;quot;nu ke tirna&amp;quot;): &amp;quot;experienced the event of hearing the amount of (he was a prisoner-free-price relating to approximately 10000 dollars)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Instead of &amp;quot;panononono&amp;quot; you can use &amp;quot;panoki&#039;o&amp;quot;; it&#039;s a matter of taste. Your choice, being longer, emphasizes its size. [Michael responded that he was engaging in a little word-play.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .iri&#039;o pa&#039;a pemci ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a joi pu pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pu finti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Anyway, he did-and-does make many paint-pictures besides poems, and did create one repeat-inside-complex long- book, etc..&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On placing &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;: Usually there is one sumti you wish to parallel with what follows &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;. Is the poem in parallel with you in the making of many paintings? Or, is it in parallel with the paintings as being made by you? I assume the latter. It really should be attached, then, to the paintings to show that&#039;s what it is in parallel with; you attach it with &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. If it is left unattached totally, the only interpretation I can think of is that &amp;quot;the poem&amp;quot; is in parallel with &amp;quot;I make many paintings and ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi pu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e pu finti&amp;quot;: Alas, ungrammatical. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;one repeat-inside-complex long-book&amp;quot; (which is what you have) means &amp;quot;before one ...&amp;quot;. You just can&#039;t leave out another selbri if you want to change the tense from &amp;quot;did-and-do&amp;quot; to just &amp;quot;did&amp;quot;. There is a proposed addition, parallel to &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; that will refer to the current sentence&#039;s selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .isa&#039;u ca ko&#039;a xabju la .ok. klif. sei jarbu se&#039;u pa&#039;a le ko&#039;a ractu me&#039;e la byroz. sei se ta&#039;o ri du lo nalcumfanva valkei se&#039;u vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o ri nalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Simply speaking, now he, besides his rabbit who is named &amp;quot;Burroughs&amp;quot; (by the way, that is an untranslatable pun), inhabits Oak Cliff, which is a suburb (end of long scope).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki ca ku&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; is there to make sure time is reset to the present so the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; won&#039;t be taken to mean &amp;quot;simultaneous with the previous sentence&#039;s time&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is needed to close off the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, which otherwise would pick up the &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; into a phrase meaning &amp;quot;at the time of him&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot; again has been linked to what it&#039;s in parallel with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;that which is referred to by the name &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, namely your rabbit; the sentence then winds up stating your rabbit is called by his furry self, making you have to reproduce him to call him. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the word &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, which is a much better thing to have as a name.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I stuck in a couple &amp;quot;sel-&amp;quot;s into your lujvo to make it clearer that the second place is what is wanted in the corresponding tanru. &amp;quot;nalcumselfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible thing-to be translated&amp;quot;, as opposed to &amp;quot;nalcumfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible translator&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;valselkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word thing-played-with&amp;quot;, vs. &amp;quot;valkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word player&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i .ia ro brivla cu vasru pa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i .ia ro jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an-error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All of these-mass-of sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an- error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;relationship word&amp;quot;; from your translation, you want &amp;quot;jufra&amp;quot;, which is &amp;quot;sentence&amp;quot; (or possibly &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;). [Michael correctly improved on our correction.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; is what you wanted to get the &amp;quot;at least&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;at least one&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: co&#039;o tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i co&#039;o sei tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Bye (observing a methodically purple-lojbanic thing).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: I remain your pertaining-to-me-thing, by methods purple-lojbanic. Bye.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Because &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot; can take a sumti-tail (the sumti without the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; or other descriptor), the original translated as &amp;quot;Bye, O methodish purple-lojbanic-one&amp;quot; (similarly &amp;quot;co&#039;o ractu&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;Bye, rabbit&amp;quot;). The revised splits off the second part into a parenthetical observative. An alternative would be to &amp;quot;co&#039;o .i tai le zirjbo vau&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;Bye. By-method-of the purple-lojbanic-one.&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is needed to end a sentence with just a sumti (a machine grammar peculiarity).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael made another attempt, based on the Anglicism &amp;quot;I remain yours&amp;quot;, but it didn&#039;t quite come out the way he intended. The final text is after discussion with him about what he wanted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Note that &#039;purple Lojban&#039; is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - a cultural metaphor dependent on knowing the English phrase &amp;quot;purple prose&amp;quot;; Michael continues using this as a standing &#039;inside joke&#039; between us, but we don&#039;t encourage others to do so.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ca&#039;o ca&#039;o le di&#039;e du lo zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ti&#039;u ti cerni li&#039;u tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .itu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (New paragraph) Incidentally, the following is the-referent-of &amp;quot;haiku&amp;quot;, with name &amp;quot;At-the-time-of the past-by- just-a-bit morning&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ca&#039;o ca&#039;o&amp;quot; is fine, but I thought breaking off into a new paragraph would give the same feel as one of the &amp;quot;ca&#039;o&amp;quot;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;du&amp;quot;: see previous comments about &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot;, again means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti cerni&amp;quot; is a sentence meaning &amp;quot;This is a morning&amp;quot;. For &amp;quot;This morning&amp;quot; you really mean the just-passed morning: &amp;quot;le puzi cerni&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: fi le pa stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : fi le pa nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the one act of stepping.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the first-stepper.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Originally, &amp;quot;By means of the one stepper&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael didn&#039;t like either Nora&#039;s version, or Bob&#039;s first attempt listed afterwards (he hasn&#039;t seen the second or thirdattempts until this printing). His intent was to emphasize that it was the FIRST step out of bed. The modified versionsays what he intended, but is not perfect haiku, which has a syllable count of 5/7/5.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ra&#039;i ckana .oi mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: from source of the bed (annoyance), by me was&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A modal (&amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;) may either be used as a sumti tag (as I assume you intended) or as an inflection for the selbri. To make &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; a sumti tag, you need a descriptor on the selbri &amp;quot;ckana&amp;quot; (otherwise it will be taken as the sentence selbri, on which &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; is a descriptor).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fa&amp;quot;: Since you used &amp;quot;fi&amp;quot; previously to get at the third place of &amp;quot;catra&amp;quot;, the next non-sumti-tagged item will be assumed to be the fourth place; since you want the first, you will have to tag it again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: killed a cockroach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Of course, all these changes kill the haiku form. Bob has suggested the following alternatives:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi poi sa&#039;akla&lt;br /&gt;
(The me who step-goes)&lt;br /&gt;
fi le ckana ku&#039;o .oi&lt;br /&gt;
(from the bed, (annoyance))&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
(kills a cockroach.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[As mentioned above, this doesn&#039;t say what Michael wanted to say, so Bob tried again. Two alternatives are the result,depending on whether you want to complain about the bed (too hard, too soft, too inviting) or being a killer. Note thatto properly complain about getting out of bed, the &amp;quot;.oi&amp;quot; must be placed after the &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;. Thus the English translationsof the earlier attempts are only approximates.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi .i&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed (Complaint!). And&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .i .oi&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed. And (Complaint!)&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: (End of block text)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: Again, ending.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As submitted - not good Lojban) - 10 Feb 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            *la    .uorf. .e la sapir. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            ke lo&#039;i rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             .eka pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i ta sidbo ca    gentsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (Final form - with approved corrections)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la .uorf. .e la    saPIR. pu pensi    Whorf and Sapir    wondered about&lt;br /&gt;
lenu loi rembangu lei mensi    human languages, sisters&lt;br /&gt;
    cu simsa leka lanzu           being similar, in relatedness&lt;br /&gt;
    gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu           and in singular insufficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i    leva sidbo ca genytsi    But this nearby    idea is    now a knot-seed.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
loi ve cusku cu    mo loi se cusku    The means-of-expression    has-what-&lt;br /&gt;
                relation-to the    expressibly&lt;br /&gt;
cumda&#039;i     .i mi danfu lu    le sisku   possible-objects.  I    answer &amp;quot;The seeker&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nitcu pa    jaspu        needs one passport&lt;br /&gt;
    .uu     .i ku&#039;i na vasru    (Alas!).  But not-a-container,&lt;br /&gt;
fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u        it is, of him (I think).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sei lu leka sarcu vau li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o    (&amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot; names.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami    A strange temporary-universe, the&lt;br /&gt;
                (typical) computer&lt;br /&gt;
cu nenri  .i RA    mi se prami    inside is.  It (the universe), I love.&lt;br /&gt;
    .i ku&#039;i le pratci           But the producer-tool&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nu sisti    kei batci       is a    cessation-biter.&lt;br /&gt;
le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami of the mind-returning (Alas!) like&lt;br /&gt;
                hot-acid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the first example, I am assuming most readers don&#039;t know Latin, I&#039;m including his English translation. Note thatthe Latin original has two lines, but that it takes 3 sentences in both English and Lojban to translate it:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
seide&#039;e    se sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o        Carmen LXXXV   Song #85    (The following is Song 85th)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 prami joi xebni fa mi            odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I&lt;br /&gt;
genai caca jimpe la&#039;ede&#039;u        Nescio,      don&#039;t    understand it,&lt;br /&gt;
gi ru&#039;i    lifri cai je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously experience(!)-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku ri         excrucior.    -am-anguished-by such a    state.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note:  If    brevity    was desired without significantly changing the meaning,    the last Lojban    sentence could be&lt;br /&gt;
shortened:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o prami joi xebni fa    mi        odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I,&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u jimpe          Nescio,        this state, don&#039;t understand,&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e ru&#039;i lifri    je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously-experience-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku             excrucior.    -am-anguished-by (it).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s original had &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is a logical connective, while &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; is a mixture-connective.The logical connective can expands out into logically equivalent sentences; these mean, of course: &amp;quot;I love&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Ihate&amp;quot;. The paradox causing the confusion is probably the poet&#039;s mixed emotion of love and hate, but this must beinferred from context, since the Latin is no less ambiguous than the English. Athelstan reads the Latin differently than Michael and suggests (not being too sure himself without more research) that the first line be interpreted as &amp;quot;I love-and-hate. &#039;Why do you do this?&#039;, you might ask&amp;quot;. This reading would require changing &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;dafcpe&amp;quot; (answer-request) in line 3, and the question on the 2nd line becomes &amp;quot;.i lu go&#039;i mu&#039;i ma li&#039;u&amp;quot;, which translates as &amp;quot;This-last,with what motive?&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the next few, we&#039;ll give interlinear literal translations, and then, as appropriate, Michael&#039;s colloquial Englishtranslation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene&lt;br /&gt;
The following is a Lojbanic-poem, and is named&lt;br /&gt;
      lu le    firgai pu&#039;u se vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;The face-cover (mask) [type-of] process of being removed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      [Note    that no    &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; causes the    abstraction to be absorbed into    a big tanru.]&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
      fe zo    pei ca rapcpedu    cai&lt;br /&gt;
      Request &amp;quot;How do you feel about?&amp;quot;, repeatedly-request (!)&lt;br /&gt;
      fa mi    .ei ne tai do pe pu fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
      I (Obligation!), in the manner that you, who were past [did],    of me.&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
      in-the-manner/form-of    (Figurative):[many-folded layers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .i mi    vimcu ro lei firgai levi&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the face-covers from the-here&lt;br /&gt;
      sluni    po&#039;u lonu djica    .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
      onion, the state-of-desiring.     And then, sequentially,&lt;br /&gt;
      ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro    po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
      (Attention, you!) it (the onion) universe-fillingly grows.]:(End figurative)&lt;br /&gt;
      [&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;    was probably sufficient, since he&#039;s said that the onion    is the desiring-state.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .iku&#039;i pu najenai ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
      But, neither-before-nor-presently,&lt;br /&gt;
      mi djuno leri    cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
      do I know its    (the onion&#039;s) possible-name(s)&lt;br /&gt;
      .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
      and  the-truth-of its    (still the onion/desiring-state) being described&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
      as (figuratively):[an-event-of together-magnetism&lt;br /&gt;
      .a lo    nalsti nu fasnu    cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
      or an    unceasing event    of being occurring wild-weather&lt;br /&gt;
      [The &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; seems redundant here.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata    nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
      ]:(end figurative), or (simply) one other [=another] event of    foolishness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      The &amp;quot;nu ka&amp;quot; seems malglico - an attempt to match an English phrasing.    &amp;quot;nu bebna&amp;quot; is and event    of something&lt;br /&gt;
      being    a fool,    i.e. an    event of foolishness. &amp;quot;ka bebna&amp;quot; is a property/quality of foolishness.    &amp;quot;nu ka bebna&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      thus has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is an event of (x1a being a property    of (x1b    being a    fool), which translates&lt;br /&gt;
      approximately    the same way into English but implies some meaningless sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s colloquial English translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban poem entitled &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;What    is it you feel?&amp;quot; -- now    I must keep asking&lt;br /&gt;
        myself, as you once    did to me,&lt;br /&gt;
        like laminations.&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the masks from this&lt;br /&gt;
        onion of a desire.    Then&lt;br /&gt;
        Lo!    it grows-to-fill-the-world...&lt;br /&gt;
      But still not&lt;br /&gt;
        do I know what to call it,&lt;br /&gt;
        nor    whether    it&#039;s described&lt;br /&gt;
      by &#039;a    state of together-magnetism&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        or &#039;an unending storm&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        -- or simply one more folly.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note the fairly complex tense-negation in the 3rd stanza. This appears correct, but is exactly the type ofconstruct that we are pondering in our open-issue discussions of tense and negation. I may even find a way to use this stanza as an example in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is why we want people to try to use the language, before its nailed into unchanging form. If people don&#039;t try complicated expression, we don&#039;t have examples of all the ways people might try to use the grammar we&#039;ve defined, thus risking an error that will later come back to haunt us. We can only accomplish so much by thought-experiments, and the relatively small number of texts and examples that the few of us making decisions can generate ourselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second poem:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is called    &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              Being-at-nesses (Presences)&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              (I hear) states of observing&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) achievement of lunar&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              round-completeness (full-moon-ness) is good.&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              But I otherly-celebrate&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) lunar superlative-thinness    (new-moon-ness)&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              I    am related to it (the achievement) in the (specific) properties    of darkness,&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              and in secret states of existing,    and (I wish!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) properties    of powerfulness, all of    a&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              means of touching    the world-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              At the (specific)    achievement of lunar superlative-thinness&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              ,    the lunar disk becomes&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              its (the disk&#039;s) single observer.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              I    too (become the    disk&#039;s single observer (sic), but always&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
              from-earlier-until-now an    observer of my zerosome-ness, also.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael didn&#039;t provide a colloquial translation - this poem is sufficiently Lojbanic that such a translation would miss some things. I noted that in a few places, Michael&#039;s interlinear translation did not always match what he wrote,so the above interlinear is my modification of his.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like this poem; the images to me are powerful. The lengthy set of comments that follow have nothing to do with its quality, which I think is outstanding. I hate picking apart something this good, lest I trivialize it, but teaching is right now the important thing, and Michael will no doubt make the poem better still as a result, for the enjoyment of future Lojbanists. But note that my comments, though occasionally picky, are of a different nature than, for example,Nora&#039;s comments on Michael&#039;s self-description. Now we are not concerned with Michael writing a grammatical Lojban sentence, but how he can best convey the subtleties of his ideas. In short we are now talking about the art of Lojban expression.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As noted previously, the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are unneeded. Michael probably included them based on the textbook lessons written before we had changed the rule (Feb 89) and no longer require &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; after the abstractor clause to indicate long-scope abstraction, which is now the default. Instead, if he had wanted short-scope abstraction, he would put a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; into indicate the termination. The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are not harmful; the parser would merely assume a matching elided &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at theend of the selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
* I have emphasized a little bit of inconsistency in his choices of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; by highlighting the difference in translation. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; implies that the speaker has (a) specific one(s) in mind. &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; makes a statement about at least one non-specific representative of the described type. Thus, I would expect that the descriptors on the three properties by which Michael claims to be akin to the disk would either all be &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; (if he has specific properties in mind, which I suspect), or they should all be &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; (if any old property of the type described will do). Other places in the text could stand re-examination of his choice of descriptor to further improve his clarity.&lt;br /&gt;
* As another example of a possibly inadequate descriptor choice, I think the two &#039;achievements&#039; of new-moon-ness and full-moon-ness should be described with &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;; this not only means that he doesn&#039;t have specific new moon and full moon achievements in mind (unlikely for an abstraction), but it heightens the sense of abstraction by referring to those achievements as being of a mass of lunar achievements, presumably most or all alike in possessing the properties to which Michael refers.&lt;br /&gt;
* Also relating to the properties of kinship: if they are all properties, they probably all should use the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;abstractor. These would translate in a decidedly non-English manner, which may be why Michael made what I think are errors. Thus &amp;quot;leka mipri zasti&amp;quot; (the quality of secret existence) or &amp;quot;le mipri ka zasti&amp;quot; (the secret essence [quality of existence]). &amp;quot;leka vlipa&amp;quot; (the powerfulness. The latter would then better be qualified (I think) as &amp;quot;leka vlipa poipiromei curmi lonu pencu le munje se rinka&amp;quot; (the powerfulness that wholly-is-a-permitter of touching the universe-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Michael akin to the moon, or to its achievements, in those properties of kinship. What he says is that he isakin to the achievements. If he means to be akin to the moon, he needs to move the moon out of a tanru relationship sohe can refer to it anaphorically with &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;. The best way I see to do this is (assuming use of &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot; as mentioned above:&amp;quot;... salci loimu&#039;e le lunra cu caircinla .i mi ckini ri ...&amp;quot;. This picks up &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
* That the rephrasing I just proposed would work suggests to me that the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; is not needed on &amp;quot;cuklymulno&amp;quot; or&amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;. An achievement is itself an abstract state. You don&#039;t achieve a property, but rather a state characterized by the property.&lt;br /&gt;
* I would have chosen &amp;quot;dukti&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;drata&amp;quot; as a modifier of &amp;quot;salci&amp;quot;, thus clarifying that he is contrasting with a celebration of the &#039;opposite state&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
* The use of &amp;quot;mi go&#039;i&amp;quot; confuses; I think Michael is relying on a poetic sense that tells an English reader what is meant here by &amp;quot;me too&amp;quot;. As he has it written, &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; captures the bridi based on &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; replaces the first sumti of that bridi. The x2 place remains unchanged - the Thus, instead of the moon becoming its own observer,the poet now is. They can&#039;t both alone be observers. The solution here is tricky, and depends on what exactly he means. The use of &amp;quot;mi&#039;u&amp;quot; (UI - discursively indicates a parallel) marking the sentence might help. Changing the wording of the x2 place of &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; might also play a role: saying that the moon becomes &amp;quot;lo pa sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a self-observer, of which there is exactly one in the set) or &amp;quot;lo pamei sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a solitary self-observer). &amp;quot;sepli&amp;quot; might be used in either form in place of &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot;, if the intent is to convey the apartness of the observer, rather than the singularity. If the parallel he is trying to make allows for both he and the moon to be observing the same thing,though apart (from each other and/or from humanity) then &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot; misleads.&lt;br /&gt;
* Astronomers would dislike Michael&#039;s expressions for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;new moon&amp;quot;. The moon doesn&#039;t significantly change shape either being completely-round or most-thin. Rather it is the observed moon (selzga lunra or, perhaps better, lunra selzga) , or possibly the lunar disk (lunrycukla or just leave it as a tanru) that changes shape. The latter might cause a problem with interpreting the later use of &amp;quot;lunra cukla&amp;quot; near the end of the poem: is it the lunardisk (the planar projection that we see) that becomes an observer, or the lunar orb (lunra bolci = lunryboi), or maybe just &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot; (the moon), since the self-observing moon would not see what we see from Earth. But we&#039;re dealing with poetry here, and the place structure of &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot; is that of a &#039;name predicate&#039; (see the discussion of culture words inthe response to jyjym. below)&lt;br /&gt;
* Incidentally, Michael may have chosen not to compress the lujvo for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; for sound reasons, but &amp;quot;cukmu&#039;o&amp;quot;is a valid shortening. Also, the rafsi for comparatives and superlatives are oriented towards final position use, so I would prefer &amp;quot;cinlycai&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, all other things being equal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think I&#039;ll stop commenting on this one; these comments are getting too picky even by my rather perfectioniststandards. The next poem is decidedly weird, but I think that was Michael&#039;s intent - to stretch one&#039;s mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is named &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
           Pertaining to Sapir-Whorf (Sapir-Whorf-ly)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           (Imperative you), your secrets, to the&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
           fastest non-rememberer, now give!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           Orange-and-silver&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
           events will be sandwiches, filled by all    of the other things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
           Something unspecified is    snugly logical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will leave this one for your imagination. I can&#039;t suggest any improvements. My mind is still trying to grasp&amp;quot;orange-and-blue events&amp;quot;, and figure out how they can be sandwiches.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Due to the length of this issue, I&#039;m going to try to keep my comments short in response to the following. Arthur Brown is a mathematician and has followed the Loglan Project fairly closely since it was made public in 1960. His comments are in response to the Mathematics Intelligencer essay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Arthur Brown ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are some things about translation. In my opinion, a thorough knowledge of the jargon used in the target language (in my case English) is essential. I remember a case in which the Office of Naval Intelligence used a broke-down Russian emigr lawyer to translate some technical documents: the poor chap used a &amp;quot;wide-striped catcher&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;broad-band receiver&amp;quot;. This was good Russian, but not good English, because the jargon was missing. (In fact, the Russian authors intended the English jargon, because a broad-band receiver was an Anglo- American technical development, I think.) The Chinese might use a &amp;quot;wide one-long-piece ribbon electric-listen thingamajig&amp;quot;, for all I know. One would have to settle on Lojban terms for the thing-in-itself, and let the translators into target languages cope with the jargon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A lot of mathematics is repetition, of stereotyped language. But some of it isn&#039;t. Occasionally, and I think regrettably, the authors break loose and become picturesque; this outbreak poses a real problem for the translator. What do you do when there isn&#039;t any jargon in the target language, or even worse, when there is jargon but it means something else (e.g. Khrushchev&#039;s &amp;quot;We will bury you&amp;quot;, which is good Russian for &amp;quot;we will outlast you&amp;quot;, but in English means the annihilation of cities). This will be a problem for Lojban as a single intermediate language; overcomable, obviously, but a problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest that, for Lojban generally, you get hold of a copy of William Empson&#039;s Seven Types of Ambiguity, published some 40 or 50 years ago. Empson was a disciple of I. A. Richards and C. K. Ogden; the book is about the richness that a language gets from compression, where the reader is uncertain about which meaning the author in- tended, and so settles for all the meanings possible. Loj- ban, if I understand it, intends to be unambiguous; if Sapir-Whorf takes ambiguity into account, as relating to real cultural languages, then I&#039;m not sure that Lojban will give a complete test. But that doesn&#039;t relate to science; so the broader aims of Lojban should not be allowed to interfere with its use as Intermath.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is there any hope of getting the National Science Foundation behind Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds to the last question: As described in the news section, we are currently seeking to establish academic credibility before tackling the NSF. People have told us that we need 1) to have been published in a refereed journal [not yet in the works] 2) to be willing to wait several months for decision and funding [we live from month to month, hoping that I don&#039;t have to go back to work too soon] 3) to have a competitive proposal when most NSF proposals are written with the help of professional consultants [I have proposal writing experience, but I&#039;m not that good] and 4) to live down Jim Brown&#039;s actions of the late 70&#039;s when he accused key individuals at NSF of improprieties in handling his proposals. Bureaucracies have long memories, and Jim Brown leveled serious charges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from jyjym. ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been working on an outline, a very rough one, of the Lojban words on the 8/9/88 baselined gismu list. I think I&#039;m going to try to learn Lojban, and the outline gives me a constructive way to learn some gismu. A completed outline should be useful in various ways.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This effort, combined with learning more about Lojban in general, has led me to an awareness of something unfortunate. The gismu corresponding to particular cul- tures/nations/languages/religions, from &amp;quot;African&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Urdi,&amp;quot; have to go. I mean that those gismu are imposters; they are cmene in &amp;quot;gismu-clothing&amp;quot; and they must be abolished. They are nothing other than a &amp;quot;Most Favored Cultured List&amp;quot; (MFCL). This does not apply to &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; It does apply to &amp;quot;lojbo&amp;quot;, but that can be fixed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll list a few things, in no special order, to show what drove me to this conclusion about the MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is all grown up now and stands on its own. All other languages, including the target languages, are now foreigners. If it fails to treat all foreigners equally, it is biased.&lt;br /&gt;
#  The inclusion of the MFCL was justified by pointing out the vast numbers of people covered by those labels. No other gismu are judged in that way. For example, the inclusion of &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was not justified by citing the extent of the infestation.&lt;br /&gt;
# The language was made to have ample grammatical tools for borrowing names from other languages. It is irrational for the makers of the language to ignore the rules of what they have themselves created, and to write borrowings directly into the gismu list, to take up fifty extremely valuable spaces.&lt;br /&gt;
# The gismu are words which speakers are forced to use, unlike cmene and tanru which are a matter of personal preference. Who are you to decide that a speaker must acknowledge certain groups of ordinary people as basic concepts, and call them by the words you deem fitting?&lt;br /&gt;
# Practical difficulties may arise. For example, Tao is officially proscribed in China. Some Chinese bureaucrat may see a description of Lojban, note that it includes Tao as a basic concept, and stamp it &amp;quot;counterrevolutionary.&amp;quot; That&#039;s the end of Lojban for a billion people. Easy come, easy go. But of course no one could even imagine that happening to a culturally neutral language.&lt;br /&gt;
# The MFCL words convey no meaning in the way that gismu have to. gismu convey a meaning by excluding other possibilities. For example, (dog) is (not cat), and (sorrow) is (not bliss). But is it correct that (American) is (not African)? Words which do not exclude each other, such as (clock) and (timepiece) are synonyms. The MFCL words are synonyms, if they are gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
# Increased knowledge makes it easier to select a word if that word corresponds to a concept. For example, if we gradually learn that X has something to do with an emotion, whispers, a crystalline mineral, and a carving on wood in the shape of a bodily organ, we may begin to suspect that X is &amp;quot;love.&amp;quot; Given more information we will know for sure. (Actually, if the carving is in the shape of a bodily organ, it MUST be love.) But which MFCL word applies to a Toyota built in Tennessee? If more information is needed to decide whether this car is &amp;quot;America-concept&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Japan- concept,&amp;quot; I will add that it is owned by the Reverend Dr. Smith. He is a resident of Berlin. His pet name for it is &amp;quot;Romulus.&amp;quot; More and more specific information only leads to greater and greater doubt about which MFCL word is appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
# That&#039;s enough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh yes, about lojbo--why not just define it to mean the name of the language. Let future Lojban speakers choose their own names for their culture, nation, etc. Those names are likely to be metaphors anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: jyjym. is absolutely correct in that the MFCL words are &#039;cmene in gismu-clothing&#039;. I&#039;ll go further and say that &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; also fits this, and so to a small number of other words like &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;terdi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;solri&amp;quot;. You can identify all of these words by their artificial- sounding place structure &amp;quot;x1 pertains to ... in property/aspect/action x2&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not surprisingly, this is also the place structure used when you turn a cmene written as a sumti into a brivla by using the cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. Thus &amp;quot;me la iunaitedsteits.&amp;quot; has the grammar of a brivla, with the place structure x1 pertains to the United States in property/aspect/action x2. The function of turning a name into a predicate is vital to language. That is the only way you could say &amp;quot;This is a Toyota car&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why do we have them, if they are names? Because they are much used in practical everyday speech by people. Not directly as gismu, but in tanru and lujvo. Even if a Toyota is built in Tennessee, most people will identify it with the tanru Japanese-car. The answer to your last question (8) is that people will use whatever culture label they wish to, to identify that feature, trait or stereotype that they are attributing to the car, person, item, or concept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If this sounds like catering to prejudice, it may indeed be. But on the Eaton list of concepts, the name for &#039;one&#039;s own culture/nation&#039; is on the first page of the frequency list, and the concept of &#039;specific other culture/nation besides one&#039;s own&#039;, a combination of all the other culture names put together, isn&#039;t far behind (the specific list of &#039;other cultures talked about&#039; is going to vary in each country/culture).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Lojban, these words will be used even more frequently in tanru and lujvo than in the natural languages. The most obvious uses are for concepts tied to nationality or culture such as &#039;American dollar&#039;, as opposed to &#039;Canadian dollar&#039;, and &#039;Japanese yen&#039;, &#039;English system of measures&#039;, and a large number of religious concepts that inherently include the religion in the concept. For example, &#039;pertaining to the Bible&#039; (as an adjective - &#039;biblical&#039;) would be &amp;quot;Christian-sacred-book&amp;quot; (as opposed to the Torah, which is the &amp;quot;Jewish-sacred-book&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a second type of word that uses culture words, which we in English use all of the time without realizing what we are doing. These are those words that have a hidden etymology that is a name - often a place name. While we would be unlikely to use these particular tanru in Lojban, &amp;quot;emerald&amp;quot; derives from &amp;quot;esmeralda&amp;quot;, a word for East, and &amp;quot;turquoise&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;Turkey&amp;quot;. When we orient ourselves in a new situation, we hearken back to the time when people oriented themselves in new places by facing the sunrise (the Orient).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently, all natural languages build metaphors from names. Lojban is different than natural languages in providing short, regular, combining forms for those believed to be likely to generate often-used words. Other names will have to be Lojbanized into le&#039;avla, and then made to combine using a non-abbreviated combining form (?toionta + karce = toiontykarce)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In point 6, jyjym. has made a distinction between cmene and gismu, saying that &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot;. From modern science, we believe this the case, but there are cultures that might believe in cat/dog half-breeds. To them, the statement &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot; is not obvious. To use an ex- ample, we saw just above, we have gismu for &#039;love&#039; and also for &#039;hate&#039;, but these abstract concepts, though considered opposites, do not exclude each other - else we would never hear of a &#039;love/hate relationship&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The assumption in Lojban is that all words are &#039;names&#039; for concepts. A selbri (of which gismu are only a part) is a name for a concept expressed as a relationship. A cmene is a name for a concept expressed as a substantive label. The cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; exist to blur the lines between these two categories so that selbri can be turned into cmene and cmene into selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a common misconception, which jyjym. appears to share (#4), and that is the concept that gismu are some set of &#039;basic concepts&#039;. It is precisely to avoid this misconception that we started using the Lojban word gismu instead of &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot;. An idea that some words or concepts are &#039;basic&#039; and others are not IS ITSELF a bias - a bias toward certain concepts being more important than other ones. No two human beings, much less cultures, would be likely to agree exactly on the set of basic words. Why should &#039;cat&#039; and &#039;dog&#039; be gismu, and not &#039;lobster&#039; and &#039;amoeba&#039;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Surely, there are some concepts represented in the gismu that are universally considered basic, but they are a small minority. Some cultures divide the color spectrum into as few as two or three colors - Lojban uses about a dozen. Are those dozen &#039;basic&#039; in some absolute sense? No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The gismu set that we have is chosen on the basis of pragmatic usage. The notes in response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class indicate that the evolution of our gismu list was anything other than ideal. For example, some words were considered by Jim Brown to indeed be biologically basic. When we redid the list, we required some justification for eliminating a word that Jim Brown had declared &#039;primitive&#039;. But the criteria for adding a word were that it either had to complete an incomplete set of concepts, or be useful ei- ther in terms of usage frequency, or in terms of usefulness in making tanru. The latter become more important as time has passed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is a category of Lojban concept represented neither by gismu, nor tanru, nor cmene - these are the le&#039;avla, or borrowings. le&#039;avla are predicate words, like gismu, but they are formed by Lojbanizing from a word in another language, like cmene. The rules for Lojbanizing are a bit more strict than for cmene, and harder to learn, so we de-emphasize using le&#039;avla, preferring to use a tanru instead when we can; in the long run, however, le&#039;avla may be the largest class of words in the language, covering most foods, animals, plants, and technical jargon words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The words that are gismu have an &#039;advantage&#039; over le&#039;avla in that they are shorter. More significantly, they are the only words considered for assignment of rafsi. All of the MFCL words have rafsi, which is not the case for all gismu. The reason, based exactly on jyjym.&#039;s logic, is that if we couldn&#039;t assign a rafsi to a name-gismu, we shouldn&#039;t have it as a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is indeed an effective bias in including some cultures as gismu, and in not including others. The bias is that speakers in those cultures find an easier time talking about concepts peculiar to their culture as lujvo, while people of other cultures will use le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Brown had gismu for each of his 8 source language cultures, and Lojban. But he also added some odd additions like &#039;Italian&#039;, &#039;Roman&#039;, &#039;Amerind&#039;, and the distinction between &#039;American&#039; and &#039;British&#039; within &#039;English&#039; (but he left out &#039;Canadian&#039; and &#039;Australian&#039;, and all of the Span- ish-speaking countries of Latin America). His choices struck us as biased and arbitrary, and made worse by the assignment of 3 gismu to each of his MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We chose to minimize bias by adding gismu to the point that we covered the 12 most common languages, the primary cultures (down to some minimum population) that spoke them, and the primary religions and continents so-associated, etc. It was at this level that we reached the conflict stage for rafsi, and were starting to have to choose between assigning them to MFCL words or to other gismu judged to be useful in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(jyjym. is incorrect in a sense - gismu word space is not all that precious. We could have twice the number of gismu we have now. The number we stopped at was based on a consensus among the word-makers, strongly influenced by a historical tradition of 1000-1500 concepts in artificial languages, and indications from foreign language education research that this was a minimum vocabulary size for conversation. We also were starting to get an increasing number of conflicts over rafsi, and highest scoring word- form.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 12 language level (our &#039;most favored languages&#039; - MFL) was historically significant - it included all of Jim Brown&#039;s languages plus our own set, and included all languages that we had considered using in making gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The number 12 had a non-arbitrary feel to it - we were using an fairly objective standard, rather than personal preference, to determine which were included. But it is, in a sense, arbitrary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me turn to jyjym.&#039;s individual points briefly:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Lojban does not yet stand on its own. We are highly dependent on native speakers of the 12 MFL, which include nearly all languages used in more than one nation. The 50- 75% of the world that speaks one of the MFL&#039;s have the capability to make lujvo for the words they use often in their culture; this will enhance Lojban&#039;s acceptability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I&#039;ve said a couple of times in this newsletter, Lojban IS biased. The point is to have biases minimized and identified. Our list has less of a Euro-American bias than Jim Brown&#039;s list. Note that all of our gismu can be said to be even more biased than the MFCL, in that they maximize learnability for people of only 6 languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
None of these presumed biases are believed significant for a Sapir-Whorf test, although such an assumption must be verified at some point by testing MFCL members as well as non-MFCL members.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Actually, &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was included because of the ubiquity of lice and fleas, and properly covers all skin/hair parasites in its definition. Similarly, &amp;quot;jalra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sfani&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bifce&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;toldi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;manti&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;jukni&amp;quot; are ubiquitous - the gismu for these are intended to cover the rest of &amp;quot;bug-dom&amp;quot;. (Do we need one for &amp;quot;locust/grasshopper&amp;quot;?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All gismu were considered from the standpoint of whether they would be useful to people of all cultures. Some limited sets, like the MFCL, some animals and plants, grains, and some metals, are exceptions that were included for a combination of historical continuity, and because some of the 12 MFL cultures use the words metaphorically in their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. As stated, we have 3 ways to borrow names, into 3 different word categories. To use one set of rules is not to ignore the others. There is nothing &#039;more basic&#039; about one set of rules as compared with another.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. I don&#039;t understand this claim. You can use, or not use gismu, as you choose. There is nothing forced. I&#039;ll admit that if you use LogFlash, you would have to edit out some words to not be &#039;forced&#039; to learn them, but you are not required to use them. And what makes cmene and tanru more a matter of personal preference? You can creatively make a different tanru if you don&#039;t like how one sounds, but it will mean something different. If you use a cmene as a label, which differs from someone else&#039;s label for the same thing, they may not recognize who or what you are talking to/about.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, gismu are not &#039;basic concepts&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It occurs to me that people can choose to ignore the MFCL gismu if they choose, and use cmene or le&#039;avla if they prefer. I don&#039;t see any advantage to this, since it is extra work for no gain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. If we were to include or exclude concepts from our list based on local politics, that would indeed be biased. I could say that ALL religions are proscribed in some countries. Does this mean that we should eliminate &amp;quot;lijda&amp;quot; from the gismu? Incidentally, to ban something, you have to label it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a million and one possible ways for people in a given culture to become offended by something in Lojban which differs from their own culture. For example, we have the gismu &amp;quot;gletu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ganxo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;pinji&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kalci&amp;quot; which repre- sent concepts taboo in our culture. The fact that Lojban by rule forbids taboos on any word could offend religious people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. I&#039;ve dealt with this partially above. It sounds like jyjym. is claiming that no gismu overlap in meaning except the MFCL, and that words that do overlap are synonyms. Neither of these is true. For example, &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bersa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bruna&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;remna&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; all overlap in a set that includes all fathers who aren&#039;t the only child of their parents.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. I&#039;m lost on interpreting this one. The exact mapping of associations to words is an individual, or at least a cultural thing. I suspect that there are some cultures that, given the list of clue concepts, could decide that jyjym. is referring to lust or worship, or both. All in all, this is a valuable discussion. We get more questions about the culture words than any other gismu, usually asking why they were included, or complaining about having to memorize them. There is a &#039;bottom line&#039; - if no one uses a gismu, or any other word, it will eventually fall out of the language. I&#039;m betting that while most Americans will have little call for using &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, they&#039;ll have trouble avoiding the use of &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;glico&amp;quot;. To eliminate all of the MFCL that one doesn&#039;t personally use would be &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - oops, I just used one. Perhaps if you have memorized &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, you&#039;ll find a use for it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Eric Williams ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Question # 1 - Why are words for &#039;large&#039; and &#039;small&#039; included in Lojban? When a person says &amp;quot;ta cu barda&amp;quot;, he or she has only expressed something very vague, since &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; is not &#039;larger than&#039; something. It seems that the proper way to express this concept is &#039;more&#039; (or &#039;less&#039;) than an- other in height, weight, surface area, or whatever. Bob&#039;s Response: If you want to express a comparison, you indeed should use &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;; they are comparative by nature and it shows in the place structure. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; are the same concept without an inherent comparative. As you&#039;ve noted, these provide less information than the comparatives - exactly one sumti place&#039;s worth. Based on English usage, there are cases where a comparative could be misleading - a large negative number is less than a small negative number.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Quite often, we don&#039;t know what the basis of comparison is. What is a &#039;big house&#039; bigger than - possibly nothing in particular - and each person&#039;s standard of comparison might be different, so we can&#039;t use &amp;quot;zu&#039;i&amp;quot;, the &#039;unspecified typical&#039; sumti place filler, unless we also add an observer place. Since some comparatives are ob- server independent, you can&#039;t put the observer place in the basic place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In general, we&#039;ve omitted comparatives from place structures because there is almost always a use where comparatives cause problems. In fact, we&#039;ve followed a &#039;less is better&#039; philosophy of place structure determination for all of the gismu. It is easy to &#039;add&#039; an extra place using a sumti tcita &#039;case tag&#039;; it is impossible to remove a place. So we try to keep out the non-mandatory ones. This has the side advantage of making the place structures easier to learn, because there is less to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(There IS a proposal to amend the place structure of &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; to add &amp;quot;as compared to standard x3. This is different from a true comparative. Comments are welcome.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Question #2 - Why have Lojban pronouns been assigned both singular and plural meanings? (If the S-W Hypothesis is correct, one might argue that Lojban would create a cultural bias towards a pluralism - a society such as the one in Ayn Rand&#039;s Anthem, which had done away with the word &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hence, with man&#039;s ego.) Is there a method for stating &amp;quot;me, to the exclusion of all others&amp;quot;? If so, please let me know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response - Predicate logic ignores the difference between singular and plural, so Lojban, at its most basic level, also does. This might cause a S-W effect such as you&#039;ve described; that is why Lojban was created - so that such drastic differences in world view in a society can be clearly tied to grammatical constructs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When we say that Lojban is culturally neutral, we mean not that the language has no effects on the culture - that would be assuming that Sapir-Whorf is false, and minimizing just the types of effects we&#039;d be looking for. Rather, we try to eliminate the cultural biases of existing cultures of the world, the sources of natural language speakers that will eventually form the Lojban speaker base.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban achieves cultural neutrality by trying to minimize metaphysical assumptions, and the singular/plural distinction is one such assumption. Does there have to be such a distinction? If so, why not a 3- or 4- way distinction expressing singular, dual, trial, and multitudinal (there are languages with more than 2 number categories, though I don&#039;t know of any with exactly this set).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban tries to remove constraints. Therefore, you CAN express number, tense, and the various other optional grammatical features if it is important to the truth of your statement, which isn&#039;t that often. You have a couple of ways of expressing singular more clearly: &amp;quot;mipezi&amp;quot; (the right-here me, limits by location rather than number. It is only plural if there are several people by me, and you are off across the room). &amp;quot;mipoipamoi&amp;quot; is the ultimate singular - &amp;quot;I, the one some&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can make a whole bunch of other distinctions that you can&#039;t make in English, of course, but I&#039;ve no room for them here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Eric also asked about the place structures of culture words, but his question was answered in the response tojyjym., so I&#039;ve not repeated the answer here.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Last Minute Request for Comment ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussing some of the topics in this issue, and in discussing negation, a question of bias arose. At present&amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; has 3 rafsi, including &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; which also serves as a sumti tcita (lexeme BAI) for adding &amp;quot;more than ...&amp;quot;comparatives. The &#039;opposite&#039; word, &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; has no rafsi,partly because in English we seldom make comparatives in this direction, so few have built tanru from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.&amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; also has a sumti tcita, but it is not as clearly connected to the gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are no good available solutions based on &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.The possible rafsi permitted in any position for this word are &amp;quot;-cka-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-cau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-kau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-ca&#039;u-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-ka&#039;u-&amp;quot;, andeach of these is in use by a reasonably important gismu, in terms of use in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We thus are proposing the first change in a gismu sincethe baseline was established 20 months ago, and setting the precedent by encouraging comment from all who have started learning the words (and others) before even a single word change. The proposed replacement is &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; with rafsi &amp;quot;-mec-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-me&#039;a&amp;quot; and the latter becoming the sumti tcita.The issue will be decided at LogFest 90 after consideration of all comments. What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
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		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi</title>
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		<updated>2020-08-13T14:43:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 11 - March 1990&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1990, The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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This issue contains a complete news section. As noted below, those of you receiving Ju&#039;i Lobypli will no longer be receiving le lojbo karni, since the contents will be redundant. Also below is a series of articles relating in some way to the value of Lojban. Athelstan and Bob compare Lojban and Esperanto. Robert Gorsch reports on his Semiotics courseat St. Mary&#039;s College in California, the first academic course significantly incorporating Lojban into its curriculum.His bibliography, and Ralph Dumain&#039;s annotated bibliography on language and thought, are included. There is also anarticle by David Morrow on using Lojban in writing fiction, Lojban text is by Michael Helsem, including the first samples of original Lojban poetry, and a variety of letters and responses. ko xamgu lifri&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                           Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News                                   --3&lt;br /&gt;
   Finances, 1989 Financial Report, Master Card/Visa Now Accepted--3&lt;br /&gt;
   1990    Plans set by la    lojbangirz. Board - Textbook, Dictionary, LogFest, Logo, Grants      --5&lt;br /&gt;
   1990    Priorities                           --6&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   Research and    Development - Grammar, Parser Status, pc to Visit DC, Transformational Grammar --6&lt;br /&gt;
   Growth and Publicity    - Continued Growth, International Publicity, Computer Networks      --9&lt;br /&gt;
   Education - New Classes Starting                  --10&lt;br /&gt;
   International News                          --10&lt;br /&gt;
   Products and    Prices - New Lojban Tape, Hypercard Mac    LogFlash, lujvo-Making Program,&lt;br /&gt;
      Papers Offered, 3    1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes,    Book Plans, LogFlash Porting  --11&lt;br /&gt;
   News    (with Comments)    About the Institute              --15&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto and Lojban - How many    rules are enough? by Athelstan--16&lt;br /&gt;
   On Comparing    Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier      --20&lt;br /&gt;
An Introductory    College    Course in Semiotics Using Lojban, by Robert Gorsch --25&lt;br /&gt;
   Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier      --26&lt;br /&gt;
   Course Outline and Bibliography                  --33&lt;br /&gt;
Bibliography on    Language and Thought, by Ralph Dumain          --36&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing, by David C.    Morrow--39&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska, all by Michael Helsem              --40&lt;br /&gt;
   Self-Description, haiku, 3 limericks, and Free Verse          --41&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of    le lojbo se ciska                  --45&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Arthur Brown, jyjym., Eric Williams --56&lt;br /&gt;
Enclosures - Reprints from The Washington Post and San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner, Reference Outline of Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
      Grammar, Some Proposed Logos&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Computer Net Information &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I want to remind people that, if you have access to Usenet/UUCP/Internet, you can send messages and text files(including things for JL publication) to Bob at:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can join the Lojban news-group by sending your mailing address to:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list-request@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and traffic to the news-group can be sent to:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
lojban-list@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please keep us informed if your network mailing address changes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compuserve subscribers can also participate. Precede any of the above addresses with INTERNET: and use your normal Compuserve mail facility (its possible that you can send only to addresses in the &#039;@&#039; format). Usenet/Internet people can send to Compuserve addresses by changing the comma in the Compuserve address to a period:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
nnnnn.mmmm@compuserve.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether you wish to participate in the news-group or not, it is useful for us to know your Compuserve address. Forexample, any decision for la lojbangirz. to obtain a Compuserve account will be based on a need to serve a goodly numberof you that want to exchange information.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
IMPORTANT&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have not received JL10 (and expected it), please let us know. JL10 and LK11 were mailed in mid-December,but there are still some people known not to have received it. If you are one, we&#039;ll resend the issue. If you&#039;re not sure, JL10 contained discussions of Lojban poetry and a lot of Lojban text, including Athelstan&#039;s translation of Saki&#039;s The Open Window. We apologize to those of you who did not hear from us for a long while due to the very slow mail (and our other, more normal, delays).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Finances ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our finances suffered a significant blow due to the serious delays in US Postal delivery of JL10. We paid for the issue in December, but have not received income to cover the cost until this month. Even now, we have money in the bank primarily because of Jeff Prothero, and Nora and me, each maintaining balances over $1000, thus in effect supporting la lojbangirz. via interest-free loans. I don&#039;t like this situation, partly because Nora and I don&#039;t have the money to spare. But I also dislike the conflict of interest of being the principal financial source at the same time that I&#039;m trying to serve your interests as President of la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some good decisions have resulted from our financial pain, though. We have now set up a credit account with our printer, who is our largest expense. And we have advanced the publication date for a Lojban textbook and dictionary(you&#039;ll see why this helps our finances in a little bit).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The la lojbangirz. Board has decided to add an incentive for those who are paying for materials and maintaining a positive balance, as well as for those who have contributed to the textbook development by studying the language now.Thus, starting 1 April, if your account balance is positive, we will be giving a 20% discount on orders for software,the cassette tape (see below), and our books when they are published, provided that either you prepay your order (or have enough in your balance to cover the order) or you are an active level 3 subscriber.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you contributing what you feel the Lojban materials are worth to you? Please help!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         1989 Financial    Report&lt;br /&gt;
                        The    Logical    Language Group,    Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
                         (Numbers rounded to nearest $)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Income&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Contributions            $7988&lt;br /&gt;
    Donations            $7633&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                  $50&lt;br /&gt;
                     ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Income               $15671&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Expenses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Printing and Publications    $5644&lt;br /&gt;
    Non-administrative Postage    $1904&lt;br /&gt;
    Office Supplies             $494&lt;br /&gt;
    LogFest    89             $394&lt;br /&gt;
    Advertising/Publicity/Noreascon    III$1603&lt;br /&gt;
    Telephone            $1240&lt;br /&gt;
    Other                 $192&lt;br /&gt;
    Administrative Expenses    $519&lt;br /&gt;
    Legal Expenses           $4100&lt;br /&gt;
                ________&lt;br /&gt;
    Total Admin. &amp;amp; Legal   $4619           29% of expenses&lt;br /&gt;
                      _______&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Expenses               $16090&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    Net Loss             (418.34)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For comparison:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                      1988 Summary (Incorporated + Unincorporated)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            Income               $6776.72&lt;br /&gt;
            Expenses               $8605.97&lt;br /&gt;
               including Administrative    Expenses:&lt;br /&gt;
               $452.42 or 7% of    income&lt;br /&gt;
            Net    Loss             ($1829.25)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                      la lojbangirz. Finances as of 1 January 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Assets                 Liabilities&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cash in    bank account   $666.02     Subscriber Refundable Balances     ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
Undeposited checks     $189.70&lt;br /&gt;
Estimated Value    of Inventory$1260.30&lt;br /&gt;
              ________                __________&lt;br /&gt;
Net Assets          $2116.02     Net Liabilities    ($2673.06)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                        Estimated Net Worth      ($557.04)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subscription Accounts as of 31 March 1990 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mailing list of The Logical Language Group, Inc. consisted of 811 names. Of these, 644 were currently active (level0 or above); the rest were either deleted by request, or because mailings were returned with no forwarding address, orare those that have asked to only receive product announcements when the textbook is ready. Known readership is about50 more than this, due to multiple readers sharing single subscriptions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Payment rates are highly correlated with level. 40-50% of those at level 1 or above maintain a positive balance. Thisvaries by 10-20% each mailing due to those whose balances drop below 0 and who then repay us. Only 3% of the level 0recipients have positive balances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As of 31 March, there were 95 subscribers at level 3, 161 at level 2, 48 at level 1, 327 at level 0, 11 press reviewers,and 32 at level B for a total of 676.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sales or distributions of key products as of 1 January 1990:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu lists 526&lt;br /&gt;
LogFlash/Mac LojFlash 122&lt;br /&gt;
flash cards 23&lt;br /&gt;
Lessons beyond Lesson 1 88&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
54 persons have donated a total of $12935.78 since we started through 1 January 1990. During 1989, Bob &amp;amp; Nora donated $3203.02; Jeff Prothero donated $2245.68; others donated a net of $2543.45. $4099.68 of Bob, Nora, and Jeff&#039;s donations were applied to legal bills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
128 persons have net positive voluntary balances&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
478 persons have net negative voluntary balances. This is the principal cause of our worsening financial position.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Master Card/Visa Now Accepted ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have arranged to be able to accept contributions to voluntary balances and donations on your Master Card orVisa, effective immediately. This is an experimental program; we&#039;ll see how much it is used. We have to pay a fee of6% on each transaction, and will be passing that fee on to your balance. We also have to pay a minimum fee of $15.00per month for the service, even if there are no transactions; thus, our continuing this service is dependent on whetheryou use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with most mail-order charge systems, we need your card number and type, expiration date, name as it shown on thecard, and signature, to process your charge. We can accept telephone orders on your credit card if you follow it upwith a signed authorization. We have to be sure to follow the rules carefully, especially at first, because small mailorder firms are considered high risk for fraud, and are carefully watched.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope that providing this service makes it easier for some of you to contribute to your balances and/or to donate support to la lojbangirz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 1990 Plans set by la lojbangirz. Board ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The la lojbangirz. Board had its first meeting since LogFest to approve the above financial report, and to set the priorities for our activities during 1990. We were aided significantly by the responses to the questionnaire sent out with LK11 and JL10 (we&#039;re still interested in getting these responses if you haven&#039;t yet sent yours in).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following paragraphs discuss the major priorities that were discussed. The list of priorities is summarized at the end of the discussion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Textbook - Our numbers of active students (level 3) has topped 100, and at the current rate, will exceed 200 this year even with no textbook. Given that the current draft textbook lessons are already 300 pages long, printing costs for the year for draft lessons alone could exceed $2000. I&#039;ve gotten an estimate that would allow us to publish a textbook for probably around $3000-4000 for 1000 copies. Mailing books is also cheaper than mailing individual lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adding in postage and overhead, we will probably be charging a base price of $12-$15, with the discount mentioned above for those with positive balances; this will exceed our costs enough to help pay for our other activities. Yet it is much cheaper than the approximately $23 we have to now charge for draft lessons - and we make no money on these. We think we can break even with about 250 paid textbook sales. Can we sell that many books? That&#039;s up to all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most important, your questionnaire responses indicate that when we publish a textbook, many more of you will then start learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dictionary - Lest anyone think that they have no influence over the decision-making process in la lojbangirz., your questionnaire responses have caused a major change in our plans (alas, we&#039;ve heard from less than 30 of you, only half of last years&#039; response - but we&#039;ll take what ever feedback we get). Whereas only a few months ago, we planned not to start producing a dictionary until we had a significant body of users of the language. Linguists believe that a dictionary is supposed to describe a language as it is used, not prescribe &#039;how it&#039;s supposed to be&#039;. Many of you are apparently unconvinced of this argument, and your questionnaires indicated that you wanted the textbook AND the dictionary done prior to learning the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve talked to several of you who so responded. Those placing a high priority on a dictionary apparently are not waiting for a &amp;quot;Webster&#039;s Unabridged&amp;quot;; rather, you want an easy to use word-list, more complete in its definitions than our current gismu lists, and a feeling that the language is sufficiently stable that we have the confidence to publish a book instead of Xeroxed handouts. You want enough examples therein so that you can see how words are made, how place structures are determined, etc. I think we can do this much.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We had already planned to republish the gismu list later this year with better place structure definitions. We also are working hard on a good cmavo definition list, as we approach our initial baseline of the grammar. When I totalled the expected page count for gismu lists, cmavo lists, machine grammar definition, and explanatory materials on how to use these, the result was enough to compile the entire set of reference data into a book. It should take relatively little extra work to organize this book as a reference dictionary, so that is what we plan to do. The result should be available late this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dictionary, like the textbook, will be a limited first edition. We expect it to have a short life, perhaps 1-2 years, before being republished in a significantly expanded version (the first edition won&#039;t be obsolete then, but later editions will presumably be much expanded and perhaps better presented, as we learn from the first attempt). As with the textbook, we will be pushing for advance orders, due to our finances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
LogFest - LogFest 90 is scheduled for the third weekend in June this year; including the Friday and Monday for some activities. I&#039;ve added air conditioning to our main meeting rooms so that the expected larger-than-ever crowd can be comfortable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The themes for the meeting will be learning the language and getting involved. I hope to have review draft copies of the textbook by then for people to examine. We will be discussing how each of you can study Lojban on your own or with others, and Athelstan will show how easy it is to give an introductory presentation on the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will have several short sessions where people can join us in Lojban conversation, or just listen in to learn that the language CAN be spoken.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most important, we intend to discuss and possibly approve the trial grammar baseline, enabling the textbook to be published and verifying that the language development truly is completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hope many of you will be able to attend. As in previous years, we have sleeping room for at least a dozen people inside, and will set up tents outside as necessary (bring sleeping bags if possible). If you bring your family, they can either get involved, or go sightseeing in Washington DC. We are 2 blocks from the Metro, which runs straight into all of the attraction of the capital.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can call me for details at 703-385-0273. Next issue will include a map on how to get here, and whatever final plans have been made by then. Much of what goes on at a Logfest is determined by the interests of the people who are there. Local people come for part of the weekend, or even drop in for a few hours. We have moved the annual business meeting of la lojbangirz. to Sunday morning, when relatively few people are around, after finding that a slow-moving meeting last year disrupted the lively excitement of Logfest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is no charge to attend LogFest, but we are asking people attending to contribute perhaps $20 for the weekend, or $10 a day, to help defray food costs and other expenses. (We&#039;ll be happy to accept more - our expenses for Logfest run much higher than this. Contributions in excess of $20 will be considered donations.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Logo - As part of our effort to generate publicity, several people have suggested that we adopt a logo for la lojbangirz. We&#039;ve had suggestions from several people, and especially from Jamie Bechtel and Kit Archer. We are running the sketches thus far submitted for your comments, and asking you to contribute your own ideas (or even draw them up if you can - but others can do the drawing if you have more creativity than artistic talent).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will put the question of a logo to the LogFest attendees&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Grants - Now that we have our non-profit status, we will be starting to investigate possible grant opportunities. Athelstan and I have identified several possible sources or small amounts of support, and we want to find out how much work is involved in obtaining such grants before committing our limited people and money resources towards pursuing them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will be concentrating on grants that will help us improve our teaching materials, translate them into foreign languages and promote the involvement of non-U.S. Lojbanists to improve our cultural balance. We will also try to obtain grants for developing some of the ideas we&#039;ve had for using Lojban in language education, and in such classes as Robert Gorsch describes below. Finally, we will seek support for developing some of the linguistics research efforts using the language that were the original goal for the Loglan Project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will probably not seek major grants such as from the National Science Foundation at this point. We believe that we need to establish credibility as an academic effort, attract researchers who know how to get such grants, and possibly affiliate with another organization to ensure accountability. We also need to show that we can work within the academic peer review system, and of course, prove that we can manage grant money wisely. I believe that Jim Brown failed to get grants for his Loglan work after he left the University of Florida primarily because he never established this kind of outside accountability. We should do much better - we&#039;ve had a couple of years of practice now in demonstrating that we are accountable to you, our supporters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 1990 Priorities ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Board adopted the following priorities as its policy for day-to-day business activities (i.e. spending money and receiving &#039;official&#039; support). We ask that people work to support these goals. The Board recognizes, of course, that we are a volunteer-based organization and everyone should be free to work with or on the language in the way that he or she chooses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Maintenance of a stable business posture, fulfilling legal requirements (including lawsuit-related), filling orders, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# Producing timely newsletters of comparable quality to current practice.&lt;br /&gt;
# Responding to correspondents, especially submittals of Lojban text, in such a degree as to support continued self- learning. Supporting classes started by others, and Athelstan&#039;s DC-area class.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition textbook covering about half the language (the portion most used in writing and conversation), and supporting this textbook with a cassette tape.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing and publishing a 1st edition reference dictionary including revised, updated, and preliminary baselines of grammar, cmavo, gismu place structures, rafsi, synopsis, and additional useful materials as possible.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preliminary research in grantsmanship leading to later decisions whether to actually seek grants.&lt;br /&gt;
# Preparing updated and new software and other educational materials unrelated to book publishing above, including the Lojban parser.&lt;br /&gt;
# Additional translation efforts by key people (particularly Board members).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Research and Development ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The primary R&amp;amp;D activities in the last couple of months have been attempting to resolve two of the four open grammar issues discussed in the last issue: negation and attitudinal indicators.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A proposal on the latter is out for review at this writing. If you are level 3 or otherwise knowledgeable of the attitudinal issue, and want to participate in the review, let me know and I&#039;ll send a copy. The final proposal (incorporating any comments by then) will be printed in JL12, and any decision will be approved at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have much of my time in the last few months working on a thorough treatment of negation which incorporates hours of discussion among Nora, Athelstan, pc, and me. The discussion is being written somewhat in the style of the textbook lessons, with dozens of examples, and also includes explanation of logical connectives. I hope to involve as many people as possible in reviewing the result, which I hope will appear in JL12. The entirety may be too long, so I may have to abridge it or send it separately to level 3 people only - it depends on our finances, and your expressions of interest in the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Negation is likely to be the last &#039;big&#039; language issue that can be reasonably understood without knowing the language; the issues to be resolved are semantic, and thus not much dependent on Lojban&#039;s grammar and word lists. Your ability to contribute will depend more on your understanding of how negation works in natural language than on how Lojban works; the object is to make sure that we have the means to cover everything involved in negation in a logically consistent manner. The grammar of negation in Lojban is quite simple, and easily adapted once we are sure that we understand the problem. We may be trying to get linguists not otherwise involved in the language to review our results for correctness and completeness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other two big issues are tense grammar and MEX. I suspect that our tense system will be among the hardest things to teach in its entirety to new people, since so few people realize how much hidden tense structure there is in natural languages - all made open and optional in Lojban. pc, as an expert in tense logic, will be the primary reviewer of the proposal. Others will have trouble getting involved in this one; the proposal will not be written up until the textbook lessons are written, although its essence will be evident in the annotated sections of the machine grammar dealing with tense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The MEX issue is one mostly of philosophy - whether to try to make MEX comprehensive, or to make it easy to use. Until we have people skilled enough in the language to try using MEX, we won&#039;t really be able to test our design. We may have to omit the esoteric parts of MEX from the 5-year grammar baseline, or else to simply recognize that MEX grammar is likely to change after that point. (I favor the former - the need for a baseline is to ensure that there is a stable language for people to learn. If we know in advance that an area will be significantly revised, the stability is illusionary.) A possibility to be considered is that we put two competing MEX grammars into the language and to see which survives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other than writing up the proposals, the major work to be done is reflecting the changes in cmavo lists and in the machine grammar. The attitudinal proposal affects the cmavo list a lot, with no grammar changes. The negation change is primarily semantic, with minimal impact on either grammar or cmavo list. The tense proposal is a regularizing of the already radical approach that I took in my redesign two years ago; it has been taught conceptually to the DC-area class, and what remains (other than pc&#039;s verification) is to make sure that the machine grammar completely reflects the concept.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The MEX decision will affect very little or quite a lot. If the status quo is deemed acceptable, there will be few changes. If there is a strong move towards an easier-to- use MEX, then the grammar will have to be substantially rewritten in this area.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In short, things are moving along well towards our intended June decision point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Parser Status ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Taylor hasn&#039;t had a lot of time to spare for the parser, and has put his emphasis on the cmavo list instead. This isn&#039;t a problem, because most of what remains to be done is dependent on the decisions to be made in the four open areas discussed above. The parser worked fine on the text samples in JL10; what remains is to incorporate the results of the pending design changes - primarily the final tense design which is substantially embedded in the hand-coded lexer. We&#039;ve reduced the priority of the parser to make sure that we get the textbook and dictionary done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An alternative possibility for the parser has recently shown up. Doug Landauer, who along with Sheldon Linker did much of the germinal Loglan machine grammar work in the 70s has volunteered to investigate and to possibly write a parser generator especially tailored for Lojban grammar work. Key aspects - for those who know parser terminology - are that the new generator, which would replace our YACC- based program, will be able to look-ahead more than 1 &#039;token&#039; - the exact number of look-aheads hasn&#039;t yet been decided. We would also try to have the generator save tables that allow for better processing of elidable terminators.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It isn&#039;t clear what such a parser tool would mean to Lojban. It could allow us to make significant simplifications in the grammar, such as perhaps re- coalescing the variety of logical connectives into a smaller and easier to learn set. It would certainly allow much of the hand-coded lexer routine in the parser to be replaced by table-driven rules in the automatically- generated portion of the parser, eliminating several of the invisible &#039;machine lexemes&#039; that allow the parser to emulate human grammar analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll report next issue on whether Doug&#039;s researches of the topic have led anywhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== pc to Visit DC ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just about the time this newsletter is mailed, pc will be visiting Bob and Nora in the DC area for a long weekend. Although he&#039;s coming for other reasons, pc has budgeted a significant amount of time for us to work together on resolving the open grammar issues. Since pc is probably the most expert of all in the combination of logic, linguistics, old Loglan design and current Lojban implementation, his review and agreement will set the tone for the decision-making to take place in June.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to going over the 4 biggies, we will also be discussing place structures of gismu, textbook plans, and the style to be used in producing the dictionary. We&#039;ll probably slip in a little Lojban conversation, too, although pc has just recently resumed studying the vocabulary after lapsing for several months.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Transformational Grammar ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a common myth among linguists that the Loglan/Lojban project ignores and/or runs counter to the various transformational grammar theories developed by Noam Chomsky. Transformational grammar theory has dominated the field of linguistics, especially in the U.S., since shortly after Jim Brown started the Loglan project. Jim Brown lends credence to these myths by attacking some of Chomsky&#039;s ideas in the new edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Contrary to this myth, the Lojban redevelopment team has tried to bring ideas in from a variety of linguistic sources, while trying to make sure the language meets whatever criteria make a natural language &#039;natural&#039; and learnable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Briefly, transformational grammar (tg) theory says that there is an underlying structure to all natural languages (called &#039;deep structure&#039;) which is often well-hidden from our conscious thought. The argument for deep structure is based on the fact that children learn language so quickly and easily, and before they understand anything about grammar, that some amount of &#039;innate grammar&#039; must be genetically coded. What we perceive as the widely varying grammars of everyday natural language are &#039;surface structures&#039; based on transformations from this innate &#039;deep grammar&#039;. These transformations are then what is actually learned when we learn language. From this theory, if Lojban is truly &#039;different&#039; from natural languages in some basic way such that tg theory does not apply, then it cannot be a natural language. Arguing in the reverse direction, if such a &#039;deep structure&#039; of Lojban can be found, and the language indeed turns out to be speakable by, and teachable to young children, then the deep structure of Lojban must be tied to that of the natural languages. This has implications for the validity of a Sapir-Whorf test, while allowing Lojban to serve as a test bed for tg theory developments. Meanwhile, the extreme simplicity of Lojban&#039;s grammar means that its consistency with tg theory may say something basic about the deep structure of natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto and most other artificial languages have generally been of no interest to tg linguists, since their grammars usually are merely simplifications of standard European language grammars that provide no useful basis for research.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pc did a simple transformational study of old Loglan back in the 1970&#039;s and found nothing unusual. Now, Lojbanist Greg Higley has been more thoroughly researching the applicability of tg theory to Lojban using the current language definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg&#039;s results are still preliminary, but he has found that the basic Lojban sentence structure is indeed consistent with tg theory. Furthermore, he says, in a recent letter to Bob, that the surface structure of Lojban is nearly transparent: &amp;quot;It is very rare for a language to have the ability to display its deep structure while maintaining grammaticalness, especially in complex sentences, but Lojban does this admirably.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg is trying to ensure that his research lives up to academic standards, and that his results will be publishable. If so, Lojban may significantly gain in credibility within the community of linguists, and the goal of using Lojban as a vehicle for experimental linguistics will be greatly forwarded.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;re trying to identify within our community, people with sufficient training in tg theory to assist in reviewing Greg&#039;s results, to the extent that he desires our assistance. Identify such people will also be important to us in the event that we decide to seek research support based on Greg&#039;s efforts. Let Bob know if you want to participate in reviewing Greg&#039;s work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(A good understanding of Lojban grammar and/or principles of transformational grammars will probably be vital - Greg&#039;s work so far makes very technical statements about Lojban grammar which would be hard to evaluate without such knowledge. Indeed, the sophistication of Greg&#039;s work is extremely heartening; he has demonstrated a sophisticated and thus far error-free understanding of Lojban grammar, yet is totally self-taught from the draft textbook lessons and other materials. Readers may recall that Greg skillfully found a subtle but important error in the textbook lessons, as he reported in JL10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an exciting prospect for Lojban, one which heightens our sense of contributing to our understanding of language. We&#039;ll try to have more on Greg&#039;s work in one of the next two issues of JL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Growth and Publicity ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our growth in the last few months has been phenomenal, especially since it is almost entirely due to word-of-mouth advertising. We&#039;ve added about 50 people since the start of the year, with new contacts averaging more than 1 every 2 days.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of these new people have joined us due to several of you giving talks to groups about Lojban, and some are due to distributions of brochures at conventions. I want to expressly thank all of you who are serving as emissaries of Lojban in this way. The list is getting too long to name every convention or talk we have collectively given; you&#039;ve ensured a Lojbanic presence at some half-dozen science fiction conventions in the last 3 months that I know of, and probably as many that I don&#039;t know about. Keep it up!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had good response following an October ad in the Mensa national bulletin donated by a Lojbanist, which has led to a follow-up article in the Mensa SIG publication &#039;Science Quest&#039;. We got a scattering of responses from around the country following Don Oldenburg&#039;s newspaper article (reprint enclosed with this issue), and the follow- up Copley News Service release, and radio interviews with various stations in the US, Canada, and United Kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The various press releases led to a contact with reporter Dominique Schroder of the French news agency ASP (their equivalent of the AP). After a pleasant several hours of interview and discussion, her story was released in several languages. It is known to have been printed (in French) in the Quebec Soleil during February. Lojbanist Andre Bergeron saw the article, contacted the paper, and convinced them to print our address a few days later, and we&#039;ve had 5 new responses (4 of them in French, leading us to test our network for multi-language correspondence support).&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no reports of other publications of Dominique&#039;s story, mostly because it did not include our address, and because it would have appeared primarily in publications serving locales where we don&#039;t have a lot of existing people who would have noticed and reported it. Some of these people will eventually find us by contacting ASP, but we mostly gained international name recognition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our most significant recent growth has been through the computer networks. With the assistance of Lojbanist Eric Raymond, we have an international news forum on the Inter- net/Usenet/uucp circuit, which also can tie in to Compuserve (see page 2 for instructions on how to join this group or to send messages to me). The network presence has attracted the attention of a couple of dozen new people, and more importantly has allowed us to respond quickly to people&#039;s questions. (Now all I need is a connection to the net here in DC, so I don&#039;t have to spend money on long distance bills to Eric&#039;s computer near Philadelphia.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve also been able to respond to inquiries on the Usenet linguistics newsgroup &#039;sci.lang&#039; about Loglan and Lojban. We have even profited from Jim Brown&#039;s advertising efforts, as people who have bought Jim&#039;s book inquire on the net looking for others working with the language; almost invariably, people who find out that there are two groups and that our group is larger, more organized, and supports a public domain version of the language, end up choosing to study Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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The same effect has occurred on Compuserve, where a copy of our brochure was placed in the Foreign Language Education forum. This has brought us several new people, including some who have started using the AMRAD BBS to contact us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve gained no new people as a result, yet, but Mark Manning published an article reviewing Lojban in his science fiction &#039;fanzine&#039; Tand #2, last fall. Since the article included several misunderstandings, Mark agreed to print a rebuttal written by Athelstan and Bob, which just appeared in Tand #3 a couple of weeks ago. There is the possibility of continuing dialog in the magazine, which relies on letters of comment on previous issues for much of its content.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A high percentage of new respondents have been moving quickly from level 0 to levels 1-3, and most of them are paying for their materials. The count of level 3&#039;s has been growing at 10% per month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My only complaint is that filling orders takes a lot of time away from other Lojban activities, especially because I personalize the response to many of the people I send to with information about other Lojbanists nearby, etc. HEAR THIS! I want to continue to have THIS complaint!&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Education ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve believed that Lojban has a major potential to contribute to various aspects of education. Finally, this has been proven. Dr. Robert Gorsch of St. Mary&#039;s College in California used Lojban as a major component of an intensive course in Semiotics taught during the intersession in January. The course proved popular and quite successful; a surprising number of these very bright students were not aware of Lojban OR Esperanto, or the various other attempts to invent a language throughout history. The class will be expanded to a full semester course for next school year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The course is described in detail by Dr. Gorsch below, including an outline and bibliography for others who are interested in Lojban and Semiotics (which Gorsch says has been heavily influenced by the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis), and for others who would like to develop similar courses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise, education has been a bit of a disappointment these past couple of months. After months of promises from the organizers, the New York and Boston classes are no closer to starting than last fall, when we gave talks en- route home from Worldcon. In Boston, things have been complicated by the fact that both of our organizers are unemployed and job hunting in a bad labor market; one has a new baby and no telephone making his life even more complicated; there is some evidence that things will eventually come together there. Boston people at least have a place to meet, since everyone seems to find MIT a good location.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can&#039;t say what is going on in New York. The principal hang-up seems to be difficulty in finding a place that everyone is willing to travel to, and a day to meet. I&#039;ve suggested that they divide into multiple groups which study on their own and get together to interchange on a less frequent basis, or by telephone. The same suggestion might be appropriate for San Francisco and Los Angeles metro areas, which also have large, geographically disperse groups of Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Things are going much better in the self-study arena. The best evidence of this is the collection of material written by self-taught Lojbanist Michael Helsem. I&#039;m also including with his writings a sample of the feedback that we gave him, thus showing that we support those of you who try to learn Lojban on your own, and also that WE WANT YOU TO SEND YOUR ATTEMPTS AT USING THE LANGUAGE TO US, EVEN IF YOU DON&#039;T THINK THEY ARE VERY GOOD! Because Michael did so, his current Lojban is much improved. Moreover, WE learned a lot from his attempts, which will in turn improve the textbook when it comes out.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== New Classes Starting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While New York and Boston haven&#039;t yet jelled, we&#039;ve demonstrated further viability as a language here in DC and in Blacksburg VA, where new classes are starting and are being taught by graduates of the last set of classes. This is the best sign that our teaching was successful, that those who have studied the language have enough confidence to feel that they can lead a new group up to their skill level in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan is teaching a new DC-area class, under the auspices of the University of Maryland &#039;Free University&#039; Program. This program gives the class an on-campus meeting point, coincidentally in the foreign language education building. Unlike the first class, this class is only 8 weeks long with one 2-hour session per week. The students are not expected to master the vocabulary, and only the basics of the grammar will be covered. The lowered expectation takes the pressure off both students and instructor. The class will probably be followed up with an advanced class after people have learned more of the vo- cabulary. Eight students showed up for the first meeting, with a couple of additional people who didn&#039;t show up indicating that they want to join in late.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 2nd Blacksburg class will be taught by Karen Stein starting in April, after people are recruited at a local science fiction convention and the VA Tech campus. John Hodges, who taught the first class, is struggling under a full class load and a full-time job, but will be advising Karen as needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== International News ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of the international news has been covered under &#039;Growth and Publicity&#039; above. We have gained significant numbers in Canada through the ASP story and other contacts, such that there could potentially be classes or group studies organized in Vancouver, Toronto, and Quebec.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ASP story is good news to Lojbanist John Negus, in Bessas, France. John is serving as our &#039;French correspondent&#039;, agreeing to serve as a local point of contact for any new French Lojbanists. John has also been making his own attempts to recruit new people, and has written a one-page description of Lojban emphasizing its international language aspects for his own distribution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The French language version of the brochure (translated by Andre Bergeron) has now been entered onto computer, just in time to receive an &#039;acid test&#039; by being distributed to the several French-speaking respondents to the ASP article. It will receive one more review pass before being printed up in bulk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Italian language brochure (translated by Silvia Romanelli), is being typed up. After Silvia reviews it, we will be printing bulk copies of it as well. Silvia has plans to actively recruit people in the Italian city of Asti, near her home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Board member Tommy Whitlock recently visited Germany on a personal trip. We don&#039;t yet have a German brochure, and the trip occurred during a university break period, but some 50 English brochures were distributed, and Tommy made contact with a couple of Lojbanists who are linguistics students in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan will be attending the 1990 World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon) in Amsterdam, which takes place the last week of August. He will arrive prepared to give several talks at the convention and to distribute brochures in the 3 languages completed (and possibly German too, if we can find a translator who will get it done by then). (Athelstan is also brushing up on 6 languages at once besides Lojban, so that he can deal with people in their own language - a truly heroic endeavor!)&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan will be spending about 4-6 weeks following Worldcon travelling around Europe by Eurorail, and eventually to Israel in October. He will be visiting &#039;friends&#039;, a label which includes every Lojbanist on the Continent that he can work into his itinerary. He specifically plans to make it to John Negus in France and Silvia Romanelli in Italy, and possibly to others in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Again, he will be giving talks on Lojban and mini-lessons everywhere he goes. Lojbanists who can organize sessions for him to give talks at will gain precedence on his itinerary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you are a European Lojbanist who wants Athelstan to stop through for a visit, please let us know as soon as possible. We&#039;ll provide more details on his plans next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== International Finance ====&lt;br /&gt;
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We have finally arranged with an international service firm, Deak International, to process currency exchanges for us with a corporate account.&lt;br /&gt;
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This means that we can now accept checks drawn in your country&#039;s currency as payment to contribute to your voluntary balance, or to donate to the project. The currency must be convertible to US dollars, and will be exchanged at the official rate. The service is MUCH cheaper than what it would cost you otherwise to send us a check. We pay a service charge of US$3.50 for each check (which we will charge against your voluntary balance since we charge people what it costs us, so please allow for it). Above all, PLEASE make sure that you keep any such check covered until it clears, which might take a few weeks - we are charged US$50.00 if Deak cannot collect on the check.&lt;br /&gt;
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We also now can accept contributions and donations via Master Card and Visa credit cards, as described above under &#039;Finance&#039;. We originally sought this service for our international customers as an alternative to sending US currency through the postal system, and hope that it is useful to you.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Products and Prices ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Our emphasis these last few month has been on polishing up design features of the language, working towards the grammar baseline, rather than developing new products, but we do have a few, primarily due to the efforts of others among you who have helped me out. These include two computer programs, a cassette tape, and several technical papers of a length or of a more limited interest group such that we can&#039;t justify printing them in a JL issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== New Lojban Tape ====&lt;br /&gt;
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We have finally made the long-promised cassette tape designed to accompany the first few lessons of the textbook. The tape was made on very short notice, since Robert Gorsch wanted to use it in his class described below (although a U.S. mail foul-up meant that it didn&#039;t get to him in time).&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob, Nora, Athelstan, Tommy Whitlock, Sylvia Rutiser, and new Lojbanist David Young participated in the various pronunciation exercises and dialogues on the tape. The recording includes samples from the first three textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are announcing availability of this tape under rather restricted conditions. Because of our strained finances and the impending textbook rewrite, we cannot afford to mass produce the tape. Also, since the text associated with the tape is derived from the draft textbook lessons, it is fairly worthless to give the tape to anyone who doesn&#039;t have at least the first 3 draft textbook lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since we aren&#039;t mass producing the tape, Bob has to manually copy each tape that we distribute, which is not quick. And since the tape is not being widely distributed, we can&#039;t afford to put a lot of effort into polishing and editing it (although Lojbanist John Vengrouskie has vol- unteered to assist us in this, when we finally do so.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Enough qualifications. The bottom line is that, for now at least, we will probably accept orders for the tape only from a) people who need the tape as examples for a group presentation they are giving on Lojban, and b) level 3 people who specifically ask for the tape. Among the latter, high priority will be given to paid orders, and to people who have been trying to use or write in the language or have otherwise contributed. I won&#039;t promise to fill unpaid orders at this point; we can&#039;t afford it.&lt;br /&gt;
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The price for the 60 minute cassette is $9.00, with a 20% discount ($7.20) as announced in &#039;finances&#039; above for people with positive balances who are either level 3 or who prepay their order.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Hypercard Mac LogFlash ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Dave Cortesi has written a Hypercard implementation of LogFlash for the MacIntosh which is available on special order. The program, being new, and on the Mac, has not undergone Nora&#039;s exhaustive testing program; it has, however, been tested by at least three users and found to be a worthwhile product.&lt;br /&gt;
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The main feature of the program, other than its Hypercard design that allows you to use the program for word look-ups as well as for testing, is that it interfaces with the standard MacIntosh speech generator. Thus, unlike Mac LojFlash, and other LogFlash versions, you can hear the word on request. This makes this program especially valuable to newer Lojbanists who are unfamiliar with the sound of the language, although the Hypercard implementation is apparently noticeably slower than Mac LojFlash, especially on the older and slower models.&lt;br /&gt;
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Because Hypercard Mac LogFlash is of comparable functionality with Mac LojFlash, we are offering it at the same price - $20. Since the program is still in a late development stage, we will include in this price 6 months of update support: free updates will be provided during that time if a new release provides meaningful new functionality (and of course if any bugs need fixing); our normal update price is $6 for each update (with the 20% discount per above).&lt;br /&gt;
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We are offering the program for now under similar restrictive terms as the cassette tape - priority will be given to advance paid orders, to level 3 subscribers, and to people needing the program for a demonstration; no guarantees that we can fill unpaid orders.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are also offering the 20% discount on both Mac teaching programs as described under &#039;finances&#039; above.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== lujvo-Making Program ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Nora has pretty well tested her new lujvo-making program for PC/MS-DOS machines, and we&#039;re going to start offering it for sale now. The program, unlike LogFlash and its variations, does not use a ladder technique, nor is it solely a teaching program.&lt;br /&gt;
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lujvo-maker has two modes, one for reference, and one for drill. One mode allows you to type in up to 5 keywords from the list of gismu English keywords, and it will form the set of possible lujvo, listing up to 32 valid forms in order of highest &#039;score&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The scoring algorithm differs from both proposals included in the Synopsis - these latter failed the most important test of all - usability by a Lojbanist trying to make words &#039;on the fly&#039;. The new algorithm stresses word- length, with adjustments minimizing hyphens and consonant clusters. It generally selects the intuitive &#039;best word&#039; from the list, and at least can be predicted &#039;on the fly&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The drill mode selects a random tanru of 1 to 5 elements, and displays the English keywords. It then asks you to type in what you think is the &#039;best&#039; lujvo. When you respond, it displays the set of correct values, and tells you whether you chose a valid lujvo, one in the top few in the list, or optimally, the best lujvo on the list. At this point, it keeps no statistics, although we may eventually add such a function for research aimed at evaluating how well people learn rafsi and lujvo-making. For now, the program is fairly simple - not even requiring a users manual. Just start it up and follow the menus.&lt;br /&gt;
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We are offering lujvo-maker on a separate disk at this point for $10, with a 20% discount for those with positive balances etc., per &#039;finances&#039; above. At some point, we will probably offer it in combination with the random sen- tence generator on a single diskette.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unlike the above new products, there are no restrictions on ordering lujvo-maker; I can make copies fairly easily. The program is very effective at teaching lujvo-making, especially if used after or in conjunction with LogFlash 2, which teaches the rafsi independent of lujvo-making. After reaching 80% on LogFlash 2, it took me only about an hour of practice to regularly be able to predict either the top scoring lujvo, or at least one of the top 3 scorers. Since all lujvo forms based on the same root tanru have the same meaning, this is more than acceptable for everyday use.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Technical Papers Offered ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Over the last year or two, as many of you know, I have been building a linguistics reference library, and a Loglan/Lojban historical archive. Your correspondence over the two years amounts to about 4-5 feet of filing cabinet space. Most of this correspondence is short letters, questionnaire responses, etc., that are primarily of interest for statistical or historical purposes. Some of you, however, have written article length essays and comments, etc. reviewing some aspect of Lojban or linguistics. T. Peter Park, Paul Doudna, and Jim Carter have been especially prolific, and Michael Helsem has writ- ten more Lojban text than we can review and print in JL (I get a new letter every week or two. Keep it up, Michael!). For a while, I published almost anything printable in JL. We can&#039;t do so anymore. Readers want me to be selective about length, relevance to general interest, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The writings I&#039;m talking about are NOT low quality. In some cases, they are written for readers of a particular experience background that I don&#039;t think is representative. To give an example, a year ago Jeff Prothero wrote a proof of Lojban elidable-terminator disambiguity. It&#039;s only 1 page long, but if I added enough explanation of Jeff&#039;s terminology and its relationship to our standard usages, and also explained the point of the proof to those who are unfamiliar with the machine grammar design, the result might be a dozen pages - and since I&#039;m not sure that the proof is correct, or that people are interested, I can&#039;t use that much space on the article (nor can I spend the time writing the explanation).&lt;br /&gt;
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A similar reason explains why I&#039;ve never printed Jim Carter&#039;s descriptions of the evolving versions of his Loglan-derivative language. The text is too long, of insufficient general interest, and filled with vocabulary and usages that are peculiar to Jim&#039;s writing (and often contradicting our own terminology) to print in JL. But some among you want to read about other artificial language proposals, and Jim and others have given me their efforts presumably so that I can bring their ideas to a wider, interested, audience.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I&#039;m going to try to do over the next couple of months is to assemble a list of such special papers that I think can be made available to the Lojban readership, and I&#039;ll include it as a separate page of ordering materials. I&#039;ll also put the oldest issues of JL and its predecessor newsletters on that list, freeing up space on the main order form for new products.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suspect that I have a couple dozen such papers, ranging in length from 1 page to 75 (for Paul Doudna&#039;s detailed analyses of Loglan/Lojban gismu categories).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m going to start with a base price of 15 cents/page, which is my estimate of what it costs for special order printing and mailing of such papers. I will apply the 20% discount to these papers for advance paid orders - if we lose a little money on this, I&#039;ll consider it a well-spent reward for those who are supporting us with cash. So I can keep going on more normal orders, I will have to fill these orders on a time-available basis, unless you give me some time-dependent reason for rushing your order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we lose too much money on this service, or if it takes too much of my time, we&#039;ll have to raise the price or try something else, but I want to do something to bring more of these writings to interested readers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ll try to start this service with the next JL issue. I&#039;m interested in anyone&#039;s comments about the idea, and how it might be made to work best.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== 3 1/4&amp;quot; Diskettes ====&lt;br /&gt;
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With my new 386/25 machine, I have a 3 1/4&amp;quot; disk drive, and can now offer PC/MS-DOS software in that format. For now, we&#039;ll charge the same price, since the higher cost of the diskettes is approximately countered by my not needing to use expensive disk mailers, and by slightly cheaper postage.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Book Plans ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here&#039;s the way I think things look for the textbook at this writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After I finish whatever needs to be done on the four open grammar issues, I will start working intensely on the textbook. First priority is to write up Athelstan&#039;s mini- lesson, which will serve as a new opening lesson. I may also revise the Overview for incorporation in the introduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have long planned to scrap the existing Overview as an introduction to the language for new people and to replace it with a derivative of one of T. Peter Park&#039;s outstanding efforts at overview-writing (these will be among the papers made available per the above discussion). T. Peter&#039;s overviews are heavy with examples and have a much more personable style than the stilted, fairly technical overview we distribute now. But the latter is useful for the textbook, perhaps blended into the mini-lesson write- up, because it covers the whole language, and defines our special usage vocabulary and jargon that is found throughout JL, the textbook, and all of our other writings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will then be revising the 6 existing lessons, probably breaking them up into smaller chunks - as many as 20. I&#039;ll try to add more examples, and to bring a student to a greater feeling of competence earlier in the text. Athelstan has people making good sentences after an hour mini-lesson; the textbook takes 2+ lessons to get to the same point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next, I will finish the equivalent of Lessons 7, 8, and 9 of the textbook outline, using the same organization and lesson size that I develop for the first 6 lessons. Much of this material will come from the write-up on negation that I&#039;m putting together for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll put together a vocabulary list Appendix, Glossary, Index, and perhaps a couple of appendices on using the textbook more effectively for self-study and for classroom study. I&#039;d also like an appendix dealing with common errors made by new Lojbanists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora will be assisting me by devising more examples - my main weakness in textbook writing and teaching is an inability to devise good examples to illustrate a particular point on demand. I will also be using examples out of the various writings that Lojbanists send me for review. This textbook will thus be a creation of many people, not just a few.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I said above, I want to have a draft finished by LogFest in mid-June. This is probably optimistic, since I haven&#039;t gotten started on it yet, but I think it will move quickly once I get going. (Now where have we heard this before!) But I&#039;ve made a commitment; the textbook, and the dictionary, will be done this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the dictionary - the primary efforts to be done in prerequisite are the completion of the new cmavo list, which Jeff Taylor has been working on for several months, and a word by word review of expanded gismu place structures that I actually prepared about 8 months ago. These will form the core of the dictionary, which will be enhance by a data base of alternative English keyword equivalents, and entries for conversions and abstractions of the gismu and their corresponding lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven&#039;t yet figured out how I want to write such entries, but the first dictionary will be prepared with fairly mechanical definitions to make sure that it gets written. We&#039;ll then revise it based on your feedback on the First edition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, I&#039;ll be adding in the (hopefully) baselined machine grammar and an explanation of how to use it, various supplementary lists, such as Lojbanizations of common names, an index of rafsi, etc., and a revision of the Synopsis, which belongs in a reference work. Probably to be added to a later edition will be a revised an completed grammar synopsis that I once started writing, now available as the partial &#039;grammar description&#039; we list on our order form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right now, I am hoping to sell each of these books for about $12-15, with the 20% discount ($10-12) for positive balances described under &#039;finances&#039; above. At least one person has pointed out that we probably should charge more, since quality technical paperbacks generally sell for $15- 20 nowadays. At this point, I&#039;m inclined to go the cheaper route. I want students and Lojbanists overseas to buy the books, and I want more people buying them, rather than having fewer people buying, and giving books away to the others because I don&#039;t want anyone who wants to learn the language to be deprived by an inability to afford the books.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another possibility I&#039;m considering is that the prices given above will be advance order prices only to repay all of you who have stuck with us over the years with a special lower price, and that within a few months after publi- cation, we will raise prices to start earning money in support of our other activities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am noting people&#039;s requests for textbooks now, but don&#039;t have a mechanism in place to record advance orders, so please don&#039;t send &#039;orders&#039; yet. You CAN, of course, send money now to bring your balance positive before the textbook comes out, and to even put in enough to have paid for the &#039;advance order price&#039; needed for the 20% discount. A large number of people bringing their balances positive will probably lead to keeping textbook prices lower, because we&#039;ll have the money and orders to print more books, and to not have to take out a loan to pay for the printing. (We&#039;ll also accept your donations made specifically towards textbook publication, or towards paying for copies for people who legitimately cannot afford them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your feedback on our plans is important. Let me know your opinions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== LogFlash Porting ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had volunteers to port LogFlash to CP/M, the Amiga, and the Apple II, during the last 3 months, all of which I&#039;ve tried to discourage: people who start this effort don&#039;t seem to finish it, and I&#039;d rather see people not waste their time on an incomplete effort. Perhaps a half dozen people have volunteered for each of the portings mentioned, and only one (an Amiga version by Carl Burke) got partially running. LogFlash is apparently surprisingly complex - 2000 lines of Turbo Pascal, and this will probably be increased later this year when we have longer English definitions for the gismu list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
CP/M is the only porting possibility that seems meaningful; older Turbo-Pascal versions exist for CP/M so that conversion would be easy. Speed, small diskette sizes, and the infinite variety of terminal interfaces and diskette formats make a conversion a problematical investment of effort in the rapidly declining CP/M market.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eric Raymond had completed an 85% conversion of LogFlash to portable Unix C, using a Turbo-to-C translator that he is modifying as he goes to make sure that we can always generate working Pascal from the C and vice-versa. There have been hang-ups due to incompatible I/O between Turbo-Pascal and C; LogFlash uses &#039;random access&#039; to disk files, which is apparently difficult to match in C. Otherwise the project would be completed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Volunteers who have significant amounts of time to contribute and a good knowledge of both C and Turbo Pascal can contact Eric on uucp/Internet at:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
eric@snark.uu.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the conversion is completed it can perhaps serve as a basis for portings to several other machines, given the attempt to maximize portability of the C code. If the porting is completed, we will consider making the C version the main &#039;baseline&#039; version. The problem with this is support, since neither Nora nor Bob is proficient with C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== News (with Comments) About the Institute ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(For newcomers, The Loglan Institute, Inc. is the organization headed by James Cooke Brown, the founder of the Loglan Project. While la lojbangirz. has serious disputes with Brown on availability of the language, and the politics of the Loglan/Lojban community, we respect his achievements and contributions to Loglan/Lojban. We will strive to continue to present reasonably fair outside reports on his efforts, especially reporting on how his organization&#039;s activities affect Lojban and Lojbanists.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim Brown&#039;s 4th edition of Loglan 1 has been out for 9 months now. The Loglan Institute, Inc. has advertised the book in Scientific American, Analog, and a couple of other magazines (If you see anything about Loglan or Lojban in any publication, or receive anything from Jim Brown, please consider sending me a copy for the historical archive, or at least asking me if I need it - I am already getting most things put out by the Institute, since our information network is spread wide).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve noted that the Institute is spending a LOT of money on advertising (thousands of dollars), which must certainly be adding significantly to Institute prices. In contrast, la lojbangirz. is trying to minimizing advertising costs by building an extensive word-of-mouth network in advance of the textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Incidentally, the number of books Jim, and we, can sell, is an uncertain question. Most small press print runs are for 500, 1000, or 2000 books, with significant per book savings on the larger numbers. We don&#039;t know how many copies Jim had printed, but I believe he only sold 2000 copies of the 3rd Edition of Loglan 1 back in 1975-7 (at a MUCH lower price), and he advertised in Scientific American at least 3 times. He also didn&#039;t have Lojban and la lojbangirz. around as a &#039;competitor&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We haven&#039;t been hurt in the slightest by Brown&#039;s publication. In fact, we have profited some thereby. People come up to us at conventions and ask about the relationship between Lojban and Loglan, and we tell them - generally doubling our response rate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also gain through our extensive grass roots network. Perhaps once a month people post a message on Internet saying that they&#039;ve bought Loglan 1 and asking whether anyone else is studying Loglan. We answer, and have added a couple of level 3 language students as a result, because these are people that want something like la lojbangirz. to support their language learning activities. Similar messages are posted on Compuserve, Genie, and other national networks, and Lojban volunteers have been quick to answer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile we&#039;ve lost exactly 1 person in each of the last 3 years who has chosen to study the Institute&#039;s version of the language over Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Turning to other Institute activities, we&#039;ve heard that Robert McIvor has revised the 8-year-old draft of a paper intended for submission to Communications of the ACM on the supposed unambiguity of the Institute&#039;s version of the language, and that he again plans to submit the paper. Jim wrote to several of the co-authors of the paper to tell them; most of these co-authors are studying Lojban. One co-author, Jeff Prothero, who devised some of the major schema for making the language truly unambiguous, indicates that he now thinks the paper&#039;s concept is too flawed to be worth publishing, and that the hand-waving evidence for &#039;unambiguity&#039; needed to explain the Institute&#039;s grammar would be laughed at by the computer community. I have an old draft of the paper in the archives and tend to agree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute published its first issue of Lognet in over a year just after JL11 went out. Jim recruited Rex May, a nationally known cartoonist and libertarian author as the new editor. The result was a much improved Lognet, if small. It included a dozen pages or so, including a couple of pages of sales offerings comparable to our order form, but it did have the first paragraph of text in Institute Loglan that has been seen in years (other than in Loglan 1), and a couple of articles other than by Brown, also a rarity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other than cartoons, the quality has a long way to go to match JL, so I&#039;m not threatened (we&#039;ve asked Rex to draw us some cartoons, too). Disturbing is Brown&#039;s announced intent to give several issues of Lognet to new book purchasers and inquirers; this is disturbing not in its threat to us - that is after all what we do with le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli, but rather in ethical sense that it seems unfair to charge Institute members $25 for such a meager publication, and then give it to everyone else who doesn&#039;t pay for it, for free.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The three relatively technical articles included a proposal by Rex May on non-Loglan alphabets, which is similar in many ways to Lojban&#039;s scheme for the same problem. An article by Brown reported on problems in Loglan 1 that were detected by &#039;several persons&#039; (he quoted only problems and examples Athelstan and I reported in our review in LK10). Brown claimed that the problems were minor and offered a contest for the best solutions. I barely resisted the temptation to submit the simplest solution: switch to Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An essay written by Robert McIvor proposed that gismu be assigned 5 different place structures, depending on the 5 different final vowels possible at the end of a word (in both versions of the language, two gismu are not permitted to differ only by final vowel. Unlike Lojban, the Institute version makes an exception for &#039;cultural words&#039;, and this proposal is a major expansion of that exception into a universal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I won&#039;t go at length into the problems with the proposal, but its adoption would spell the end of the Institute version as a true predicate language. The proposal calls the varying place structures &#039;cases&#039; - and indeed the proposal is in effect reinventing declensions. More important, the gismu are divided into a bunch of categories, including &#039;nouns&#039; and &#039;verbs&#039;, &#039;culture words&#039;, &#039;people&#039;, &#039;body parts&#039; and a few others. Each category would have its own peculiar set of declensions. Thus the assumption of a predicate language that all predicates are alike is violated at the start - major &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; that might derive from the fact that things traditionally &#039;verbs&#039; can be treated as &#039;nouns&#039; in Loglan, and vice versa would be eliminated. There are other problems, some identified by McIvor himself, any of which should be sufficient to kill the idea.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is some letter feedback and questions on Institute equivalents of LogFlash and other programs. It appears that those programs are being sold without proper testing. But I won&#039;t pretend that la lojbangirz. hasn&#039;t had its own software support problems, especially with MacIntosh software.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Brown calls on readers to do a lot of things to promote the Institute version of the language. A lot of the proposals are things that we&#039;ve been doing. la lojbangirz. is honored by the extent that Brown values our methods. If only he would realize that our methods require a public domain language in order to work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue, and a lot more news.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Feature Topic: Esperanto and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Whether you have (or should have) interest in Lojban as a candidate for an &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; is not a question addressed in the following two articles. To achieve most of its goals, including the scientific ones, Lojban needs to develop an international, multi-cultural speaker base. Lojban can be helped in this effort by the &amp;quot;international language&amp;quot; community, or it can be hurt by it. Perhaps one of the best ways to spread Lojban into other cultures will be to translate the introductory and teaching materials into Esperanto (any volunteers?) In any case, it is to all Lojbanists&#039; advantage to clarify the relationship between Lojban and Esperanto, and to ensure that supporters of each language do not see the other language as a &#039;rival&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Probably the most commonly asked questions from new or potential Lojbanists relate to various comparisons between Esperanto and Lojban. Many of these questions come from Esperantists, who of course are the ones most familiar with their language. Some of these are friendly and curious; others are defensive and hostile, seeing Lojban as a threat or competition to Esperanto. Others come from people who have dabbled in Esperanto, and they then want to use their knowledge of Esperanto as a standard for evaluating Lojban&#039;s qualities with respect to their personal priori- ties or goals. And then there are the genuinely confused, who often have seen one of the short eye-catching advertising flyers used by Esperantists to whet people&#039;s interest. These questions generally lead to discussions along one of several lines:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Why another international language? Isn&#039;t Esperanto good enough? After all, it&#039;s already spoken by [insert questionable statistic of your choice between 25,000 and 10,000,000] people.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Esperanto a European language? Does the answer mean that non-Europeans will or won&#039;t be able to easily learn it? Is Lojban any better?&lt;br /&gt;
* Can Esperanto be used in testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis? Can Esperanto be used for machine translation? (and similar questions about applications for which we think Lojban is especially well-designed).&lt;br /&gt;
* Esperanto had speakers within a few months of its publication, but Loglan/Lojban has been around for 15/25/35 years before even the first speakers gained competence. (This leading to the humorous aside that Loglan is the first artifi-cial language to undergo a schism before anyone spoke it. Probably not true - Lojban is the first language to SURVIVE aschism occurring before anyone spoke it. la lojbangirz. is now far stronger and less-divided than the Loglan/Lojban community has ever been.)&lt;br /&gt;
* I want a language that I can use NOW for speaking and writing to other people. Lojban doesn&#039;t have anyone speaking the language, especially in other countries.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are also comments commending the short, free correspondence course that Esperanto supplies. These generally are compared to our considerably more complicated teaching materials.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And finally, sparking the following article:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You say Lojban has 600 rules. But Esperanto has only 16. How can you say Lojban is simpler than Esperanto?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan will answer this question, and then Bob will follow with an essay tackling the other issues that stem from trying to compare Lojban and Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How many rules are enough? by Athelstan ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many people are confused or dismayed that Lojban has 600 rules while Esperanto has a mere 16. The key is in the different kinds of rules these are: Lojban&#039;s are computer parsing rules, similar to the types of rules used by compiler writers to describe computer languages. Zamenhof&#039;s 16 Rules of Esperanto are essentially commentary on 16 topics of language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have concocted 11 rules of Lojban that approximately correspond to Esperanto&#039;s 16. Like Zamenhof&#039;s list, the Lojban rules are often groups of rules concerning a single topic. Also, following Zamenhof&#039;s example, the rule set is incomplete: the rules do not describe word or sentence order, relative and subordinate clauses, relative pronouns, and numerous other topics of grammar and vocabulary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The 16 Rules of Esperanto&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Corresponding Rules for Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1) There is no Indefinite Article, there is only a definite article (la), alike for all sexes, cases, and numbers.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;1) The articles la, le, lo, li, and lu are the name, non-veridical, veridical, numeral, and utterance articles,respectively. lai, lei, and loi are the mass articles and la&#039;i, le&#039;i, and lo&#039;i are the set articles corresponding to the first three above. lo&#039;e is the typical/average article, and le&#039;e is the stereotypical article. None vary by number, case or sex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: This is the one rule where Lojban is not as succinct as Esperanto in covering the same ground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2) Substantives end in o. To form the plural j is added. There are only two cases: nominative and accusative; the latter is obtained from the nominative by adding n. Other cases are expressed by preposition (genitive de, dative al,ablative per, etc.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;2) sumti (arguments) assume the case of the sumti place they occupy. The place tags fa, fe, fi, fo, and fu may be used to explicitly state the place. Also, the case tags bai, bau, di&#039;u, etc. may be used to specify the case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Lojban words do not change endings, so the corresponding rule only deals with determination of cases. Note that this is a conglomeration of four rules, each in its own sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3) The Adjective ends in a. Case and number as for substantives. The Comparative is made by means of the word pli,the Superlative by plej; with the Comparative the conjunction ol is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;3) Any selbri may modify any other selbri by position. Comparatives and Superlatives are formed by simple modification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: The Lojban rule describes a secondary function, as there are no separate words that act only as adjectives in Lojban. The Esperanto rule consists of six rules this time; the second sentence is short but refers to two separate rules inside Rule 2.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4) The cardinal Numerals (not declined) are: unu, du, tri, kvar, kvin, ses, sep, ok, nau, dek, cent, mil. Tens and hundreds are formed by simple junction of the numerals. To mark the ordinal numerals a is added; for the multiple, obl;for the fractional, on; for the collective, op; for the distributive, the preposition po. Substantival and adverbial numerals can also be used.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;4) The digits are pa, re, ci, vo, mu, xa, ze, bi, so, and no (zero). pi is the decimal point. Numbers are formed byjunction of the digits. li ... boi surround simple numbers as sumti. To mark the ordinal, the post-position moi isused; similarly mei for the collective. pi ... mei surrounds the fractional.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: These two Rules correspond closely for the first seven parts, but the last sentence of Zamenhof&#039;s rule invokesrules from Rule 2 and Rule 3, adding ten rules in all for a total of seventeen rules directly and indirectly containedin this paragraph.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5) Personal Pronouns: mi, vi, li, si, gi (thing or animal), si, ni, vi, ili, oni; possessives are formed by adding a.Declension as for substantives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;5) Anaphora: ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, etc; mi, do, ko, ti, ta, tu, ri, ra, ru, zu&#039;i, zo&#039;e; possessives are formed by position orwith prepositions pe, po, po&#039;e.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: These are of similar length except that Rule 2&#039;s substantive declension rules are included. I count sixrules, therefore, to Lojban&#039;s three.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6) The Verb undergoes no change with regard to person or number. Forms of the verb: time being (Present) takes thetermination -as; time been (Past) -is; time about-to-be (Future) -os; Conditional mood -us; Imperative mood -u; In-finitive -i. Participles (with adjectival or adverbial sense): active present -ant; active past -int; active future -ont; passive present -at; passive past -it; passive future -ot. The passive is rendered by a corresponding form of theverb esti and a passive participle of the required verb; the preposition with the passive is de.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;6) The selbri undergoes no change. The tense markers pu (past), ca (present), ba (future), vi, va, vu (space), etc.may be used with any selbri or within sumti. nu, ka, ni, etc. are the abstraction operators. For the imperative, usethe anaphorum ko.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Without reference to any other Rules, Zamenhof has packed Rule 6 with sixteen rules. Lojban&#039;s nine include the abstraction operators, which have no counterpart in Esperanto. Also, I have counted the tense markers as three separate rules, but they should probably count as one, like any of the other lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7) Adverbs end in e; comparison as for adjectives.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: This is covered under Rule 3 on modification.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8) All Prepositions govern the nominative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Lojban has no cases in the sense used here, so it needs no rule corresponding to this one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;7) Every word is Pronounced as it is Spelt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;8) The Accent is always on the second-last syllable (names may be marked for irregular stress).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11) Compound Words are formed by simple junction of the words (the chief word stands at the end). Grammatical terminations are also regarded as independent words.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;9) lujvo are formed by simple junction of the gismu or rafsi, substituting or inserting y where appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: As Zamenhof left off variant compounding rules, I felt equally free in leaving out the more extensive lujvo-making considerations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12) When another negative word is present the word ne is left out.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;10) na acts to negate a bridi, and is never an intensifier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: I have recently examined a treatise on the scope of negation in the natural languages. It is medium-sized,and an inch and a half thick; both of these two Rule statements obviously miss a lot of ground. [Bob&#039;s note: the current Lojban negation proposal covers all of the ground of negation with 4 cmavo, and involves 47 of the 600-oddmachine grammar rules. But it requires a lot of explanation to cover all of natural language negation, as will be seen in JL12.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13) In order to show direction towards, words take the termination of the accusative.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: see comment on 8, above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
14) Each Preposition has a definite and constant meaning; but if the direct sense does not indicate which it should be, we use the preposition je, which has no meaning of its own. Instead of je we may use the accusative without a preposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
15) The so-called Foreign Words, that is, those which the majority of languages have taken from one source, undergo no change in Esperanto, beyond conforming to its orthography; but with various words from one root, it is better to use unchanged only the fundamental word and to form the rest from this latter in accordance with the rules of the Esperanto language.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;11) Nonce le&#039;avla are marked with le&#039;a and a marker rafsi as appropriate, and should conform to Lojban orthography.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comment: Zamenhof&#039;s Rule here does not seem to admit of any major group of languages that are not closely interrelated.That is, he assumes that if a word varies, it varies from one fundamental root word. I have included a description of borrowed terms as the closest approximation to this rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16) The Final Vowel of the substantive and of the article may sometimes be dropped and be replaced by an apostrophe.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(not applicable)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please note the overall structure of the 16 Rules. The first 8 cover eight major parts of speech in Graeco-Romangrammar; articles, nouns, adjectives, numerals, pronouns, verbs, adverbs and prepositions. The last 8 cover seven aspects of the same grammatical philosophy: pronunciation, accent, compounding, negation, case usage, borrowings, and elision. (Rule 14 should really be divided and shared between Rule 8 and Rule 13.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This means that any language with a Graeco-Roman grammar form can be described by similar rules. They may be long rules, including lots of sub-rules, but Zamenhof started this practice with the Esperanto rules. They may ignore a lot of the grammar, but again this is in keeping with the example set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, with slight adjustments to the Rule topics, any language may be described with approximately 16 rules, if the rules are sufficiently complex (and allow for all the exceptions that are inherent in natural languages). In some cases, a language&#039;s rule set may not even be as complex as Esperanto&#039;s; this is the case with Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In order to have a meaningful comparison between numbers of rules, the complexity of those rules must be nearly uniform; the machine parsing rules (of which Lojban has about 600) come closer to meeting that ideal. Unfortunately,there are no figures on the number of such rules required by Esperanto; we must rely on indirect evidence of their number. Esperanto&#039;s dependency on case declensions probably alone requires a complete set of rules comparable to Lojban&#039;s FOR EACH CASE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is not my intention here to prove that Lojban is &#039;better than Esperanto&#039; or that Esperanto is in some way &#039;defective&#039;. It is rather to show that the comparison of two languages is a complex task, and not to be decided by comparing raw numbers. Each of these languages is complex in itself, and yet much simpler than the natural languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob&#039;s note: Even comparing languages by counting machine parsing rules is risky, unless you count rules the same way.We&#039;ve used the number 600 as the machine rule count for Lojban in the above article. However, that number is a count of each individual rule line in the current machine grammar proposal, which was not written to minimize the rule count, but to modularize the grammar into separate, small chunks that can be readily understood. An earlier JL article compared Lojban&#039;s rule count to the &#039;BNF rules&#039; used to define common computer languages like C, Pascal, or ADA; such a comparison can only be approximated. The Lojban rules are much simpler than those used in BNF rule descriptions, which are generally use compression conventions that are not directly testable with YACC for unambiguity. Eventually,probably after we baseline the YACC grammar, someone will rewrite the Lojban rules in the shorter, more readable BNF format. The result will be much shorter than the current rule set - perhaps 250-350 rules, within the same order of magnitude as computer languages.]&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
=== On Comparing Esperanto and Lojban, by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First let me state a guiding principle for evaluating the two languages. Lojban is not &#039;in competition&#039; with Esperanto. These are two separate languages with separate goals and applications. These may overlap, but are not identical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Evaluating two languages is like &#039;comparing apples and oranges&#039;. If forced to choose between an apple and orange,you will do so for purely personal reasons, based on your needs and desires of the moment. Similarly, if your goal is to learn an artificial language and you don&#039;t have time to learn both Lojban and Esperanto, you will end up choosing based on your own personal reasons. (Learning a language, even an artificial one, is a fairly abstruse goal in itself -you usually have some longer range purpose for such a major effort, a purpose that will probably dictate the language you learn).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Competition would be pointless. Partisan support for one language doesn&#039;t make that language &#039;better&#039; for others;it can, however, spark counterproductive rivalry. Far better instead to work to attract new people into discovering reasons for learning our respective artificial languages. By encouraging these new people, as well as supporters of our respective languages, to be as informed as possible about both languages, intelligent choices can be made towards individual goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Lojban becomes widely used, it might become a meaningful candidate as a universal &#039;second language&#039;, just as Esperanto now is. If Esperanto continues with healthy growth, then at that time there might be a basis to speak of a &#039;choice&#039; for &#039;world language&#039; between Lojban, Esperanto, and possibly other candidates. The decisions will then be made by nations and cultures on the basis of THEIR personal desires and goals - the same non-competitive situation, but at a higher level.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Lojban to reach that level of viability, its various applications will have to be proven - there must be computer implementations, accomplishment of useful scientific research, and thousands or millions of speakers, before Lojban can be talked of as a &#039;world language&#039; as Esperanto now is. If Lojban becomes such a force for consideration as a world language, then I think that demonstrating enough growth to &#039;catch up to Esperanto&#039; as well as enough usefulness OUTSIDE of the international language movement to survive until then, will be convincing evidence that Lojban is suited for world acceptance. Furthermore, if Esperanto hasn&#039;t succeeded as an international language by the time Lojban is proven viable for global consideration, then Lojban&#039;s &#039;higher momentum&#039; and extra applications should the cause it to be considered &#039;more&#039; viable. Meanwhile, if Esperanto does succeed, then Lojban will continue to be used and useful for its other purposes. Each language will succeed or fail at its own goals on its own merits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Neither language has been accepted yet, and neither language will be accepted at the expense of the other. There is no point in talking of competition, especially when many Lojbanists are at the same time Esperantists, and who have no desire to &#039;make a choice&#039;. Let&#039;s keep the community of artificial language aficionados together, bucking the tendency in that community towards disharmony and schism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let us try to compare apples and oranges.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are four major areas of criteria wherein Esperanto and Lojban can be compared - aesthetics, usefulness, scientific or linguistic merit, and success. I&#039;ll discuss each in turn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Aesthetics ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first basis of comparison is aesthetic. There are a few aesthetic qualities - sound, rhythm, ease of pronunciation, simplicity, elegance, completeness - but the standards of &#039;good&#039; in these qualities are cultural at best, and individual at worst. I am most irritated by people, not having made an effort to learn the language, who say that Lojban seems &#039;cold&#039;, &#039;mechanical&#039;, &#039;inhuman&#039;, &#039;complicated&#039;, &#039;hard to learn&#039;, or deficient any other measure of aesthetic quality; they have absolutely no knowledge basis on which to make such an evaluation!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The aesthetics of language is totally determined by knowledge. All languages have beauty, when looked at from an internal perspective. You have to see, and to understand, the sounds, the forms, the structure, and the poetry, before you can determine whether a language has properties that attract you. Michael Helsem&#039;s writings in le lojbo ciska this issue may demonstrate this to you. Whether you like his poetry or not, he clearly has found something in the language that inspires him to explore further. He couldn&#039;t have found this without trying to express his own ideas in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most people make a first evaluation of Lojban based on two sentences in the brochure, and a couple more if they get the Overview. These sentences can be evaluated by a newcomer only in translation, and whatever virtue Lojban has is obviously going to be lost by translation into English. The sentences are longer than the colloquial English translation, so Lojban seems complicated (heightened by people&#039;s perception that logic is complicated). The frequent reference to &#039;logic&#039; in our introductory materials makes people think of Vulcans, whereupon they presume that a logical language must inherently be cold and inhuman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, people criticize our &#039;Chicken McNugget&#039; gismu - it seems like the wrong way, to them, to build a &#039;warm, human&#039; language. A newcomer sees a heavy emphasis on the rules of the language, on computer applications, and on linguistic principles, in our introductory descriptions, which makes Lojban seem &#039;cold&#039; and &#039;mechanical&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A third group of critics see Lojban words as unaesthetic because of particular sounds that they find difficult to say, or simply because the words are enough different from English that they think it will be hard to learn them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that all of these evaluations are based on misconceptions caused by the way we describe the language and by the readers&#039; cultural prejudices. However, we can&#039;t possibly tell a casual newcomer enough about the language for him/her to aesthetically evaluate it. There are too many possible misconceptions to deal with; in this newsletter alone I&#039;ve written 3 or 4 essays that try to dispel misconceptions among readers with far more information than the person who casually picks up our brochure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto appeals aesthetically to European-family newcomers because they grasp the simplified European principles relatively easily. They can read Esperanto text and recognize dozens of cognates, giving them a feeling that they already practically know the language. Esperanto will always have this advantage over Lojban, since Lojban requires an interested person to learn a bit more before she/he can see the simplicity and the patterns.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need to make introductory Lojban materials good enough that a newcomer feels compelled to learn enough about the language to properly evaluate aesthetic features. WHEN PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT LOJBAN, THEY STAY WITH US. Our dropout rate among such people is only a couple of percent per year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several people have tried to write a one-or-two page handout on Lojban, but it&#039;s awfully hard to describe something as complex as a human language in just a couple of paragraphs. On the other hand, at Worldcon, we saw numerous 1-page Esperanto handouts that showed great advertising sophistication, reducing all of Esperanto to some graphics and a catchy slogan that plays to the emotions. I would feel dishonest trying to do the same. Our handouts give information, quite dense information at that. Our only catchy slogan so far is &amp;quot;.e&#039;osai ko sarji la lojban.&amp;quot;, which of course also loses something in the translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps Lojban promoters can learn from Esperanto in other ways. Esperanto has a correspondence course for newcomers, which Lojban doesn&#039;t. It isn&#039;t even on our priority list yet, although Athelstan&#039;s mini-lesson may eventually serve much the same basic purpose - to give peo- ple the warm, fuzzy, feeling that they can indeed learn the language, and that it is aesthetically pleasing - then they will be willing to start the hard work necessary to actually learn it. Only the people who move beyond such introductory lessons actually learn and use the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On a more practical note, it will be impossible to evaluate the aesthetics of Lojban until it is spoken by reasonably fluent speakers. Only the first tidbits of Lojban poetry have now been written, by one poet, so the enormous power of the language to convey ideas has hardly been tapped. The aesthetics of Lojban are being evaluated on such trivial grounds as whether one likes the apostrophe as a representation for the vowel buffer (pronounced like an h - but NOT an h), or whether the consonant clusters at the beginning of &amp;quot;cfari&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;mrilu&amp;quot; seem pronounceable. Esperantists have a similar problem, with four alphabetic letters not found on any typewriter or computer keyboard. But Esperanto has speakers, poetry, novels - a community of people using the language - to give it the aura of &#039;humanity&#039;. It did not have these 100 years ago, when people first made the choice to learn the language. Lojban will have these things, too, and in a very short while.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Usefulness ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Turning to the second major area where Esperanto and Lojban may be compared, we examine the qualities of usefulness - what are the uses to which each language may be put, and how well does each language serve those purposes. Esperanto was designed solely as an international language. Other purposes that could be devised for it are accidental. Lojban was first designed as a linguistic tool, but with specific requirements (cultural neutrality, ease of learning, simplicity) that probably are important in an international language, and one (extremism in one or more areas of language structure) that is a disadvantage. For various reasons, the disadvantage of extremism has been ameliorated; most of the extremes in Lojban are optional, and can be avoided by an international user. The advent of computers and the large number of computer professionals has led to a secondary goal of useful computer applications while the language was still being formed, making this a third area of usefulness that is in effect designed into the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unless we&#039;ve really fouled up, Lojban HAS to be potentially useful in more ways than Esperanto is. IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This doesn&#039;t suffice for a comparison, though. Lojban may have a great deal of unrealized potential, but Esperanto has realized most of its potential. It HAS been used for international communication. It is NOW being de- signed into an elaborate machine translation system that is expected to bear fruit by 1992. And while most linguists ignore Esperanto because it is not a &#039;natural language&#039;, has few native speakers, and is in effect a simplified European tongue, there are some linguists who have re- searched Esperanto as a language, and who have used it in linguistic studies such as language education.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is not yet being used for any of these things. However, every application &#039;discovered&#039; for Esperanto has been designed for in Lojban, and a few more besides. Esperanto has an advantage in application now, but if Lojban survives at all, it will eventually have more and better applications. And because all of these applications are conceived of and being worked on from the start, Lojban won&#039;t take 100 years to achieve that large variety of useful application.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Scientific/Linguistic Merit ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the third area, scientific or linguistic merit, there is also no competition possible. Lojban has &#039;won the race&#039; by starting at the finish line that Esperanto can never reach. Yet in another sense, Esperanto is also at a finish line, which Loglan/Lojban has had to strive for 35 years to finally reach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Esperanto was invented, there wasn&#039;t a science of linguistics. A few seeds had been planted, mostly along the lines of historical evolution of languages. The concept of inventing a language significantly different than European languages was inconceivable - at least in Europe. Indeed, until my generation, all languages, even Oriental ones, were taught using Latin as the pure, perfect, ideal if dead language that was the model of what a language &#039;should be&#039;. Of hundreds of international languages invented before Lojban, almost none have a non- European grammar. They were simplified forms of Latin with some a priori or derived set of words to fit onto that Latinate architecture. Indeed, most of the hundreds of languages I&#039;ve seen in the Library of Congress stacks are described only as dictionaries, with some small set of rules at the front telling what simplifications have been made to standard European (read Latin) grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto&#039;s 16 rules are just such a set. Indeed, Zamenhof apparently intended all things not covered by the rules to be done &#039;like they are in your own language&#039;, as if all languages were alike in such reference. The 16 rules are confusing to anyone who doesn&#039;t know a European language, just as Lojban&#039;s machine grammar is confusing to anyone not versed in YACC grammars. What is an &#039;accusative&#039; in any of the Amerind languages, an &#039;adjective&#039; in Chinese, or perhaps a &#039;passive&#039;? You can&#039;t teach Esperanto without teaching these concepts, which are inherent to the design of the language. A non-European can&#039;t learn Esperanto without first learning the concepts and mind-set of European language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Loglan Project was started some 40 years after what is considered the birth of modern linguistics. Then, in the 1950&#039;s, the language was a skeleton - a simple structure with a few hundred words - based on predicate logic, which has been thoroughly studied for 2000 years. By the time the language meaningfully took shape, in the 1960&#039;s, modern linguistic theory had undergone the revolution that had pretty much thrown out the Latin ideal. Older versions of Loglan show obvious Latinate biases. Newer versions leading up to Lojban have successively weeded out more and more of them. The Lojban version now being taught has had input from dozens of linguists, and has been examined in comparison with a variety of linguistic theories that weren&#039;t around when Esperanto was developed. Loglan/Lojban has changed to account for the rapidly developing field of linguistics. Only recently has there been enough confidence that a baselined Lojban is &#039;good enough&#039; to meet the stringent linguistic tests that we believe are required for a totally new language to seem &#039;natural&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan/Lojban has striven for 35 years from scratch to achieve the finish line of &#039;natural&#039; language. 100 years ago, Esperanto started at the European finish line, taking a few steps back to &#039;simplify&#039; the European grammar before again &#039;completing the race&#039;. Lojban moves beyond the restrictions of European grammar. It overtly incorporates linguistic universals, building in what is needed to support the expressivity of the whole variety of natural languages, including non-European ones. Esperanto, on the other hand, will always be constrained to some degree by its Latinate structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am particularly bothered by comparisons that note that Lojban has taken 35 years to achieve meaningful conversation, while Esperanto had hundreds of thousands of speakers within 35 years of its founding, including some native speakers. The fact that Lojban took 35 years to reach a point of development where it was speakable is a mark of the amount of work that went into the language, a sign that this spoken language is different, but not inferior to, any that have existed before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban&#039;s purposes include linguistic experimentation, evaluating Lojban&#039;s merit requires noting the mechanisms built into the language that allow, even require, the use of the language for linguistic experimentation. There are roots of redundant expression forms for several types of expression. They will compete with each other for usage as Lojban grows. The choices made by real speakers should reveal NEW facts about language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban also has the cultural neutrality needed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. (Yes, &#039;logic&#039; could be a European bias. Indeed, Jim Brown intended that Loglan have an extreme bias that would have measurable effects - that is the requirement for a Sapir-Whorf experimental test. But beyond logic, Lojban is exceptionally free from obvious bias.) It has structures built into it that allow comparison with languages of many different families, not just European ones; such comparison will unmask observed Sapir-Whorf effects that are European artifacts in disguise, and will be possible because Lojban&#039;s grammar is non-European.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And you don&#039;t &#039;have to be logical&#039; in Lojban. The redundant structures allow both hyperlogical and illogical ways of expressing things; you can be as erudite, or nonsensical as you choose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Success ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, the last criteria - success. Lojban has NO fluent speakers. Esperanto has some large number - the value dependent on your source and whether you or the source is trying to promote or denigrate the language - but certainly a lot more than Lojban. Where&#039;s the comparison? Where&#039;s the competition?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You cannot compare Esperanto&#039;s numbers with Lojban&#039;s numbers and gain any useful information regarding their relative potential for success. Lojban&#039;s couple of speakers are too small to deal with statistically. Thus you can use our numbers to prove practically anything.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, the number of Lojban students is growing in excess of 8% per month, or 100% per year. Extrapolating on this trend, Lojban would pass Esperanto in 15 years, and would be universally spoken 15 years after that. Reduce the growth rate and the results will be identical - just take longer, as long as Lojban grows faster than Esperanto. This extrapolation is ridiculous of course, and almost any method of predicting numbers is equally worthless, because changes will occur in the world every year that will invalidate any prediction. Just ask the peoples of Eastern Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Esperanto is growing in numbers too, though not nearly as fast as Lojban. If it did, there would be no question about ITS eventually being a world language. But Esperanto right now isn&#039;t growing fast enough. When the population of the world grows by hundreds of millions per year, Esperanto is losing ground every day - just as Lojban is. Both languages are failures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two paragraphs, opposite conclusions. Counting speakers is meaningless. Based on numbers, anything will happen tomorrow. Or nothing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Numbers of speakers are meaningless anyway, if the people don&#039;t USE the language. The biggest shock for me at Worldcon was sitting next to the Esperanto table for several days and NEVER HEARING A SINGLE CONVERSATION IN ESPERANTO. I won&#039;t say that none occurred (some of the people at the Esperanto tables are reading this), but I didn&#039;t hear any.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We didn&#039;t talk much Lojban at our table either. But our audience of potential conversationalists was much smaller - those of us who had driven up to Boston. The same group of us did speak Lojban for hours in the car going to and from Boston. But Esperantists visiting from all over the country and all over the world were speaking English in preference to Esperanto at their table.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Only if a language is used can it be judged successful. And neither language is being used to its potential (Nora and I COULD set time aside each day to talk in Lojban, but we don&#039;t.) This will have to change if either language is to achieve &#039;success&#039;, in the sense of being widely used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has a long-term advantage there, based on the greater potential uses discussed above. If the language is USED by the people who learn it. If the 100-or-more level 3 people out there start sending me sentences, then para- graphs, then texts in Lojban, and eventually start interacting with each other because they don&#039;t need us to tell them that they are using the language correctly, then Lojban will be used for its intended purposes. If not, Lojban will be just another dead artificial language. The same is true for Esperanto.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any Esperantist/Lojbanist who gives me the argument that they can use Esperanto now, but cannot use Lojban, is arguing a self-defeating position. If you want to use a language, you will find a way to use it. We have the network in place for Lojbanists to interact with each other, including some people from other countries (though the numbers are still small). But you have to learn the language first in order to use it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same argument follows for people who are &#039;waiting for some practical application&#039; before learning the language. The people who are waiting should be making the known applications a reality, and should also be creating new ones. Some of the brightest people in the world are reading this essay; you certainly have the ability to make Lojban (or Esperanto) applicable to your life - but only if you choose to.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban applications will naturally spring up from the seeds we&#039;ve planted. The time that no one seems to have available now for learning the language, could bear fruit and be ripe with reward in just a few years.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile Lojbanists have the ultimate consolation. Unlike Esperanto, Lojban can achieve one of its goals even while failing as a language. While most of the linguistic community has yet to realize it, the efforts of the past 35 years have probably taught more about the nature of language than any other experimental effort. Every day and every new Lojban speaker adds to that knowledge. If Lojban suddenly is abandoned 5 or 10 years from now as a dead language, or is &#039;beaten out by Esperanto&#039; as a world language, it will still have succeeded in its original aim - to teach us more about language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is one aspect in which I can comfortably say that &#039;Lojban is better than Esperanto&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Side Note on the Discussion ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Philosophically, I am unconvinced that personal and political decisions should be made in a competitive environment. The prevalent idea seems to be that &amp;quot;for me to be right, you must be wrong&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;for me to be good, you must be bad&amp;quot; is unrealistically simplistic. Within human endeavors, there is no absolute right or absolute good. Whether a language or a person, a candidate should be chosen on the basis of how well the varying needs of everyone concerned will be served, preferably not at the expense of others&#039; needs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An interesting side note occurred to Nora in reading this. The Lojban gismu &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot;, representing the concept of &#039;good&#039;, has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is good for x2 by standard x3&amp;quot;. Comparatives were also removed from other place structures when the language was redesigned. While Lojban can express comparisons quite easily, they are now avoided in gismu place structures. Thus one need not consider everything as being &#039;more&#039; or &#039;better&#039; than something else in order for a basic predicate relationship to be claimed. One needn&#039;t decide what something is &amp;quot;bluer than&amp;quot; in order to decide that it is &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot;. One needn&#039;t decide that something is &amp;quot;better than&amp;quot; something else in order for it to be &amp;quot;good&amp;quot;. This seems metaphysically simpler, and now appears to be a more significant qualitative difference from earlier versions of the language than we&#039;ve perceived before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The metaphysical difference is perhaps significant to a Sapir-Whorf test, since if S/W is true, the earlier design could lead to a culture where people see the world as a competitive place where everything always strives to be more &#039;broda&#039; (~whatever) than something else, a culture that doesn&#039;t seem very pleasant to me in an aesthetic sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following article is taken from a letter received from Dr. Gorsch in which he described his recent class. Those of you interested in the evolution of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis since 1955, and those of you interested in developing useful applications for Lojban in education should find the letter an following course outline very useful. We ask anyone else who considers using the materials below to develop their own course, or for any other purpose, to let us know their results in a similar fashion. We also ask that appropriate credit be given Dr. Gorsch for his germinal work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== An Introductory College Course in Semiotics Using Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for sending the wonderful tape.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alas, it arrived too late for me to use it in my class. Don&#039;t worry, though. I will use it when I reorganize this occasional course in &amp;quot;Semiology&amp;quot; into a regular course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society.&amp;quot; We are planning to make this course in &amp;quot;Language/Culture/Society&amp;quot; a regular part of the curriculum of the English Department, and &amp;quot;Artificial Languages&amp;quot; (including Lojban) will be a unit of this course. I expect to be offering it for the first time in the Spring of 1991.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have enclosed the reading list for my course in semiology, together with copies of the readings most closely related to the Whorfian Hypothesis and the development of modern sign-theory. Please note that this is an &amp;quot;intensive&amp;quot; course: each meeting represents 2 1/2 hours of class-time or something like a week in a regular semester.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me briefly sketch the context in which I introduced students to Loglan and Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my course we began with an examination of the way in which sign-systems, linguistic and non-linguistic, organize the raw experience of the human mind. We concentrated on developments in Continental linguistics and culture-theory that derive from the Swiss linguist Saussure. This tra- dition, associated with the terms &amp;quot;structuralism,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;semiotics&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;semiology,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;post-structuralism&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;deconstruction,&amp;quot; anticipates, parallels, and from the 1960&#039;s on elaborates the speculations of Sapir and Whorf. Saussurean &amp;quot;sign-theory,&amp;quot; with all of its quasi-Whorfian implications, is extremely influential today in academic circles, particularly in such fields as literary studies, anthropology, and communications. Indeed, it has been practically the intellectual orthodoxy in literary studies since the mid-1970&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some semiologists look back to the Whorfian Hypothesis as a kind of corroboration of Saussure&#039;s thesis that the sign consists of the arbitrary correlation of a signifier, for example, an arbitrarily selected segment of human speech sounds, and a signified, an arbitrarily defined segment of human thought or experience. This thesis concerning the relation between language and thought is developed, in particular, on pp. 111-22 of Saussure&#039;s Course. Umberto Eco uses the terms &amp;quot;cultural unit&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;culturally pertinent unit&amp;quot; to refer to what Saussure and his followers would call the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; (see the enclosed selections from Eco).&lt;br /&gt;
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For writers in this Saussurean tradition the lexicon of each language is of especial interest. Eco, for example, makes much of the fact that speakers of Latin had no word for &amp;quot;rat&amp;quot; as opposed to &amp;quot;mouse.&amp;quot; They did not (or did not easily) make a distinction where speakers of English do make a distinction. Through the lexical items they make available to their speakers different languages embody different segmentations or divisions of potential human experience. Each language constitutes a &amp;quot;map&amp;quot; of human experience. Takao Suzuki&#039;s discussion of the English words break, drink, desk, water, and lip is designed to show that these maps do not coincide. It is as though English and Japanese cartographers--to say nothing of Turkish and Swahili cartographers--organized Earth&#039;s land masses into political units in quite different ways.&lt;br /&gt;
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Semioticians like Eco also analyze the way in which a given language organizes human experience by relating culturally pertinent units (&amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot;) to one another through a network of connotative or associative links. Thus, as Eco explains in &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System,&amp;quot; a language not only differentiates each cultural unit from other, &amp;quot;adjacent&amp;quot; units (&amp;quot;orange&amp;quot; is differentiated from &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; and from &amp;quot;yellow&amp;quot;), but links each cultural unit to other units in other &amp;quot;semantic fields.&amp;quot; The signified of the word &amp;quot;rose,&amp;quot; the idea of a certain kind of flower, is linked connotatively to other signifieds, &amp;quot;romance,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sexual passion,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;male reverence for the female,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;courtship customs (giving flower),&amp;quot; &amp;quot;femininity,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;youth,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;freshness,&amp;quot; and so on without limit. In this way each language is &amp;quot;contaminated&amp;quot; by traces of the cultural history of those who have used it: connotations are the links, arbitrary and mostly culture-specific, between one &amp;quot;semantic field&amp;quot; and another that speech communities inherit and take for granted.&lt;br /&gt;
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This thesis about the segmentation of &amp;quot;raw&amp;quot; human experience is not incompatible with the Whorfian Hypothesis. Indeed, to the extent that Whorfians concentrate on the structure of the lexicon and ask, for instance, how many words the Eskimo has for snow, the Whorfian Hypothesis can scarcely be distinguished from Eco&#039;s argument about the &amp;quot;form&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;content&amp;quot; in the sign (see &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign-System&amp;quot;). But, to my mind, the Whorfian Hypothesis is concerned more with grammatical structure rather than with lexicon. This is why I assign the essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; in my course (see enclosed). I selected this from a number of possibilities as Whorf&#039;s clearest articulation of the thesis that the grammatical structure of a language, and not just the map afforded by its lexicon, shapes the perceptions of its speakers.&lt;br /&gt;
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In my course, I used some introductory materials on both Esperanto and Loglan/Lojban to illustrate possible escapes from the constraints imposed on thought, according to the Whorfian Hypotheses, by natural languages. It was my hope that students would perceive the relations between the organizations of experience embodied in Esperanto and Logan/Lojban and those embodied in Indo-European languages like English, Spanish, and French. Anyone who examines Esperanto will see that it is Indo-European, even Romance- Germanic, to the core. Lojban, in contrast reflects a serious attempt to fashion a syntactic structure significantly different from that which structures English and other Indo-European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe that you will find the enclosed readings on language and culture useful: they place the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis in context and reflect the importance of the thesis of linguistic relativity in modern &amp;quot;culture- criticism.&amp;quot; You should be able to locate the other readings assigned in my course using the information found in the syllabus (I would be happy to provide copies of any readings that you find difficult to obtain).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Questions from the Class, compiled by Dr. Gorsch, with responses by Bob LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[Dr. Gorsch compiled some interesting, provocative, and very perceptive questions asked by his students. I&#039;ll try to answer them here, for everyone&#039;s benefit, and to hope that Dr. Gorsch is able to pass the answers back to appropriate questioners.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Following is a digest of comments, reflections, and questions prompted by my students&#039; encounter with materials relating to Loglan and Lojban. We discussed Loglan and Lojban in class and students wrote about them in their &amp;quot;intellectual diaries&amp;quot; (which I read).&lt;br /&gt;
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Needless to say, all of my students were dazzled by the very idea that anyone would attempt to fashion an artificial language, and the brightest ones were intrigued by the idea of testing the Whorfian Hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
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I would like it to be understood that all of the following questions and remarks were framed in a skeptical spirit: my students are trained to question things, everything in fact, in a skeptical spirit. Furthermore they are based upon an introductory acquaintance with the idea of the language. I hope these questions and remarks will be of interest to you.&lt;br /&gt;
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1. As one of my brightest students argued, the architects of Loglan/Lojban seem to have taken a &amp;quot;marketing approach&amp;quot; to language design. For example, they worried more about the size of the target audience of the language -- by attempting to maximize the number of potential learners whose native languages would be incorporated, in part, into the artificial language -- than about the cul- tural neutrality of the language. J. C. Brown, at least, seems unreasonably impressed by mere numbers (how many hundreds of millions of speakers have been targeted by having their native languages incorporated in some way into the artificial language?). As compared with Loglan, Lojban clearly seems to take a step forward by including a Semitic language among its source languages; but it takes a step backward, too, by the elimination of Japanese. As things now stand, four out of six of the source languages (English, Hindi, Russian, and Spanish) are Indo-European. Thus, only three independent language families are represented (Indo-European, Hamito-Semitic, and Sino- Tibetan). Even if one limited oneself to languages spoken by over fifty million speakers, one could, in principle, represent three additional language families, for a total of six families: the Malay-Polynesian (e.g., Javanese and Malay-Indonesian), the Altaic (e.g., Turkish and probably Korean, and perhaps Japanese), and the Dravidian (e.g., Tamil and Telugu).&lt;br /&gt;
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An important compromise seems to have been made here: &amp;quot;inter-culturality&amp;quot; seems to have been sacrificed to maximal &amp;quot;target audience&amp;quot; (or, from another perspective, maximal &amp;quot;learnability&amp;quot;). Legitimate questions could be raised about the cultural neutrality of any language which rooted in a set of languages four out of six of which are Indo-European. Questions might also be raised about your methodology: have you chosen source languages according to the best possible criterion? My own instincts tell me that one should maximize the number of independent language families from which the artificial language derives: the ideal artificial language would be derived from an analysis of, say six languages representing six utterly unrelated language families rather than from an analysis of those six languages which yield the largest possible &amp;quot;target audience.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: I think it a quite perceptive observation, and a true one, that marketing mentality has had an influence on the design of the language, although I can&#039;t say for sure that it is the case in the word-making. Brown never mentions such a criterion in discussing why he chose the particular algorithm that he did in either Loglan 1 or Loglan 2.&lt;br /&gt;
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Without evidence to back me up, I would tend to think that it was Brown&#039;s background as a social scientist in the 50&#039;s that led him to maximize an algorithmically-derived and weighted statistical score. In social science, this has been a frequently used and accepted methodology.&lt;br /&gt;
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Looking at his goal, it is not an unreasonable approach. The goal was a culturally neutral word-set, but also a maximally learnable one. This is unquestionably a &#039;market- minded&#039; goal, though whether Brown chose it for market reasons is uncertain. I think he was concerned about learnability, trying to balance it against neutrality. The most learnable words to a culture are the one&#039;s most like that culture&#039;s words. The most culturally neutral of words would give no link back to the native tongue. For what was originally thought of as a small short-term language experiment, learnability among test subjects was important enough to get a weighting factor.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown scored words based on the appearance therein of phoneme sequences that could be used as cognate memory hooks. As a result, English speakers find &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; easy to learn for &amp;quot;come&amp;quot;, while Chinese speakers will find &amp;quot;cadzu&amp;quot; easier to learn for &amp;quot;walk&amp;quot;, and both find &amp;quot;blanu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;blue&amp;quot; relatively easy.&lt;br /&gt;
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JL9 had a more extensive discussion of the word-making algorithm and learnability. Briefly, it is believed that Brown never actually tested whether his algorithmic score actually measured learnability. Nor is it clear that it measures cultural neutrality. Eventually linguists can study both questions - the language as a tool is there for the studying.&lt;br /&gt;
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The choice of languages was not a &#039;marketing&#039; decision, but a practical one. Again, I don&#039;t know enough about Brown&#039;s reasons, but I know what we considered, tried, and rejected. Brown used 8 languages; we used 6 for the Lojban version, because these now are the &#039;top languages&#039; in terms of population. While Japanese is sociologically, if anything, a more important language than it was 35 years ago, the number of speakers has remained constant in a growing world population. Chinese and Hindi have swelled enormously. With the end of colonialism, French and German are on the retreat, and so to a lesser extent is English (although English has increased as the language of science and technology).&lt;br /&gt;
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Given that the object of the algorithm is the creation of 5-letter words with 3 consonants, it turns out to be meaningless to use more than 3 language families to generate scores under Brown&#039;s algorithm. First, regardless of the number of languages, you must use uneven weights, or you get ties among possible words, and we didn&#039;t want our own personal aesthetics to be what chose the words. If an uneven weighting is to be used, populations of speakers is certainly as rational a weighting to use as any.&lt;br /&gt;
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Then, given that language roots are most often reflected in their consonants, a 4 language family set results in the least-reinforced language being thrown out, and a lot of low, approximately equal scores for widely differing rules - again a formula for randomness and aesthetic selection on my (the word-maker&#039;s) part. A lesser, but real factor in our remaking of the words was the tradeoff of time vs. quality of language scholarship. We didn&#039;t have very good dictionaries for languages of other families, and we didn&#039;t have time to acquire the language expertise to properly research languages with unfamiliar alphabets.&lt;br /&gt;
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By the way, we did experiment with both equal-weighting of languages, and with adding additional languages into the calculation. Neither gave useful results.&lt;br /&gt;
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While 4 of our languages are in the same family, Indo- European, they are from different subfamilies that have relatively minimal sharing of roots. Indeed, about the only obvious reinforcing that we observed was some En- glish/Spanish matches where we allowed a Latinate root in the English calculation. There was probably a good deal of subliminal sharing, but a high percentage of the words are primarily a blending of Chinese and English phonemes.&lt;br /&gt;
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What was achieved, I think, is better than a set of random words. Because the weighted scores included phoneme frequency and order, we have words that have a phoneme frequency that is consistent with the weighted average concept. We have an extremely non-random distribution of sound sequences that emphasizes those sound sequences that are pleasing to the widest possible distribution of speakers, because those sound sequences came from the words of their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cultural neutrality is served in that the words are sufficiently different from the roots of any one language family that no language sees a too high level of cognate reinforcement. Even with 4 Indo-European languages, no linguistic historian would ever recognize Lojban as having an obvious Indo-European heritage instead of a Sino-Tibetan one. Thus we counter to some extent the cultural biases caused by semantic transference, where Lojban words end up with the meanings of the base language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Furthermore, since we use the same concept (as near as possible) from each source language, our vocabulary has a universality not biased towards a single culture. Such a bias towards one culture is the main threat against Lojban&#039;s usefulness in testing Sapir-Whorf, especially if it is an unrecognized one.&lt;br /&gt;
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We can say that any biases in Lojban word-making are consistent, identifiable and to some extent measurable; however, they are probably not important.&lt;br /&gt;
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Researchers will be able to verify this. If the biases are meaningful, linguists of the future will be able to look at Lojban and measure some resulting effect, correlating it with the known and measurable bias. If such an effect exists and can be tied to apparent Sapir-Whorf effects, it might invalidate Lojban as a test tool. Though I doubt if such biases will prove meaningful, there is always a risk that any new scientific tool may have such flaws that invalidate the research results. Lojban is such a tool and is subject to the same risks.&lt;br /&gt;
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An essential factor in the word-making algorithm is appearance, and this is a &#039;market-minded&#039; goal. The method we used gives an objective approach to word-making that eliminates personal biases, and it demonstrates a mind-set towards protecting cultural neutrality. Loglan/Lojban has attracted researchers and students by using its word-making algorithm as an obvious symbol for cultural neutrality, a symbol which your students have correctly noted is at least somewhat illusory.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. In the design of Lojban, how were the lexical items selected? From the perspective of semiology, this is a crucial question. A sign-system constrains thought above all (or at least significantly) by virtue of the organization of experience it imposes on a community through (a) the &amp;quot;cultural units&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;signifieds&amp;quot; it defines and (b) the web of connotative relations that it establishes between these &amp;quot;cultural units.&amp;quot; See the articles by Eco and the selections from Suzuki.&lt;br /&gt;
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If one were simply to devise new signifiers, new &amp;quot;words,&amp;quot; for the signifieds given by Indo-European schemas (&amp;quot;man,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;woman,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;blue,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;sky,&amp;quot; and so on), one would be producing a kind of code into which speakers could simply translate discourse already structured by a natural language like English, Spanish, or Russian.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: First, I&#039;ll note that the first paragraph of this question assumes the validity of Sapir-Whorf; if S/W is false, then sign-systems would not constrain thought.&lt;br /&gt;
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How were Loglan/Lojban word concepts chosen? From a variety of sources, all probably biased in their own way. The hope that we have a neutral word set derives from the variety of ways that words have come into the language, and the large number of people involved in the project over the years, have neutralized any major biases.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we rebuilt the vocabulary for Lojban, we heavily based our concept selection on Brown&#039;s. The source of each of Brown&#039;s concepts may be buried in his notes, but has not been published. Brown has presented some of his basic ideas, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Brown started with some number of root concepts that had been identified by linguists in the 50&#039;s as being found in &#039;all&#039; languages.&lt;br /&gt;
* To this list, he apparently added the work of Ogden in creating the word list for BASIC English.&lt;br /&gt;
* Recognizing that linguistics hadn&#039;t dealt effectively with taboos, he added explicit roots for a variety of biological functions that tend to be primitive in every language.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown did a study, using the most frequent concepts in Helen Eaton&#039;s list of the most frequent concepts in 4 European languages. While this list undoubtedly has a European bias, it served as a check on the primitive word list. Brown checked the first 3000 words of this list, and required, according to Zipf&#039;s law, that the most frequent concepts be the shortest words, i.e. primitives.&lt;br /&gt;
* Brown added concepts proposed by him and others rather haphazardly over a period of 30 years. Loglan thus ended up with words for &#039;olive&#039;, &#039;billiards&#039;, and &#039;blonde&#039;. (An exception is that the entire collection of concepts proposed in The Loglanist between 1975 and 1982, dis- appeared without a trace when Brown rebuilt his word list in 1981-2.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there bias in these methods? Yes, especially when the decisions were made by Brown alone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown has expressed a strong bias towards theories that claim biological innateness or instinctiveness of certain concepts. Thus he retained concepts for father and for mother as &#039;biologically primitive&#039;, rather than choosing to make them as the tanru &#039;male-parent&#039; and &#039;female-parent&#039;. To Brown, mother is something more than &#039;female-parent&#039; for biological reasons. For similar reasons, noting the wide use of human and animal body parts as the basis for metaphor in all languages, Brown decided that a large list of body parts are primitive &#039;biological&#039; concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
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The theory of biological innateness may be true; its assumption without proof is an identified bias. Because it is a known bias, it can be used positively in watching for Sapir-Whorf effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown&#039;s individual biases have been corrected, or at least ameliorated, by the extensive redevelopment of the language over the last several years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Over time, the Eaton list analysis was expanded. This analysis gave birth to the dissenting opinion that primitive words should be selected on the basis of usefulness in making tanru, and not on some innate &#039;basicness&#039;. Brown disagreed, and while he was in charge of the language, usefulness per se was not a factor unless the chosen primitive could be justified on the basis of Eaton frequency.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we remade the words for Lojban, we accepted the &#039;usefulness&#039; criterion as a primary consideration, choosing to make the gismu list a set of &#039;root&#039; concepts chosen primarily for building tanru, and not a set of &#039;basic&#039; concepts (more on this below in the response to jyjym.)&lt;br /&gt;
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We reviewed Brown&#039;s list word by word, attempting to justify each in terms of either its ability to be used in tanru covering the most frequent words in the Eaton list, on one of Brown&#039;s scientific criteria, or on high frequency in the Eaton list coupled with an inability to express the concept as a tanru of other gismu. Where there was doubt, we deferred to Brown&#039;s earlier decisions, in order to enhance chances for reconciliation.&lt;br /&gt;
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During this review, one final criteria was adopted, based on the work of Paul Doudna and others. The words were divided into semantic categories. If there were several words in a semantic category, we added other words, even if of lesser frequency, to complete the set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our re-evaluation actually took place at least 4 times, with concepts being added and removed. A final review against Roget&#039;s Thesaurus sought to verify that we had allowed for the entire range of semantic thought, although there is plenty of room for addition of new concepts if admissions are identified. In general, we have tried to err on the side of inclusion; the inclusion of a word does not mean that it will be used, while the exclusion of a word means that it won&#039;t be.&lt;br /&gt;
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(Lojban development has often accomplished cultural neutrality by inclusion, rather than by exclusion. The existence of a language feature in any culture makes that feature a candidate for incorporation. Lojban thus allows many competing features as alternative expression forms; we choose one feature over another only when there is an unreconcilable conflict.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Our gismu list, considered as &#039;basic concepts&#039;, could not be thought bias-free. No list could be - the very adopting of a set of words as &#039;basic&#039; would bias the language towards concepts associated with those words. Lojban instead emphasizes providing &#039;semantic coverage&#039; of the entire space of potential human thought, through the combination of gismu, tanru, and lujvo. The form of the word is not intended to be an indication of semantic import or primtive merit. This philosophy frees us from much excessive concern that biases in our gismu list invalidate Lojban&#039;s linguistic usefulness.&lt;br /&gt;
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As a result, the exact mapping of the gismu to the semantic space, expressed by their use in tanru, does not yet exist. The speakers of the language will make that mapping. They will determine exactly &#039;what the words mean&#039;, and this will be the final elimination of a priori cultural bias from the word set.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since Lojban&#039;s set of gismu concepts is significantly different from any other language, the semantic map that will result must also be different for this reason. Three examples follow:&lt;br /&gt;
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* Lojban has a gismu for computer, a concept that didn&#039;t exist a hundred years ago. Clearly the Lojban semantic map of concepts related to computers must be different than any natural language.&lt;br /&gt;
* In kinship terminology, Lojban, possibly uniquely, has sex-neutral concepts for all kinship relationships (as well as 5 pairs of sex-linked words to allow specification of sex where it is important to a person); it also allows se- mantic distinction at the primitive level between biological parent and rearing parent, and there is even a current proposal for a gismu that would permit one to avoid making such a distinction.&lt;br /&gt;
* In colors, we have a set of about a dozen colors, which can be equally modified in tanru to indicate blends, or for &#039;pale&#039; or &#039;intense&#039;. tanru can also be made for association with physical objects (sea green vs. pea green, etc.) The size of the set of colors is towards the maximum found as &#039;primitive&#039; in language.&lt;br /&gt;
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Each of these cases should have a significant effect on the Lojban semantic map, causing it to differ from any natural language. Multiply this effect by all of the other gismu and Lojban&#039;s map will undoubtedly have patterns that we can&#039;t yet even imagine.&lt;br /&gt;
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The best assurance that we have that Lojban will not be a code for another language is its grossly different structural basis: predicate grammar. Any Lojban predicate word (brivla) has exactly one place structure, and hence one denotation. This immediately militates against transferring connotations.&lt;br /&gt;
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The place structure effect is especially strong when forming tanru, and hence lujvo, which will eventually form the bulk of the language vocabulary. Thus, when Michael Helsem attempts to transfer the odd English metaphor &#039;purple prose&#039; to Lojban in his writings below, his tanru &amp;quot;zirpu lojbo&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;zirjbo&amp;quot; is obviously invalid for Lojban; one would have to be able to define in the place structure what chromatic aspect of the &amp;quot;signified&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;purple&amp;quot;, and by what standard. Similarly, a &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot; is not going to be expressed in Lojban as &amp;quot;skami bajra&amp;quot;, which would more likely connote the &#039;Bionic Woman&#039; running down the street in tennis shoes while a printer built into her back spits out digits of &#039;pi&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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At first, people will no doubt make such semantic transferences. But assuming that people learn to think in Lojban, it will quickly prove difficult to continue such encoding.&lt;br /&gt;
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Meanwhile, those of us who assemble dictionaries and word lists militantly watch to prevent any obvious transference of Englishisms, our worst problem while we have mostly native English speakers. Indeed, I suspect that we have a bias against English metaphor, and are prone to turn to our Chinese dictionary to confirm any permanent choice.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sticking with gismu place structures, we similarly avoid problems. As noted in the Esperanto discussion, &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;good&amp;quot;) is not a comparative. A different word (&amp;quot;xagmau&amp;quot;) would be used for the comparative, and a third (&amp;quot;xagrai&amp;quot;) for the superlative. But also in the concept &amp;quot;xamgu&amp;quot; is an &#039;observer/evaluator&#039; who opines the property of goodness and a &#039;purpose/beneficiary&#039; so that the concept is really &amp;quot;good for&amp;quot;. The claim that there may be an absolute good that isn&#039;t &#039;for&#039; someone or something requires a different concept, shall we call it &#039;virtue&#039; for argument, that has to be a different word with a different, derived or primi- tive place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
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The final obvious effect of predicates is the blurring between nouns, verbs, and adjectives. While this might have less drastic an effect on Chinese semantic transference, Lojban uses a single word for &amp;quot;caringly&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;caring&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;take care of&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;caretaker&amp;quot;. While the four are obviously related in English, each has unique connotations tied to its nature as noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. In Lojban, all of those connotations which remain consistent with the single place structure are combined and blended, forming a new meaning for the predicate word &amp;quot;kurji&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. One question, related to the preceding concerns, to which my students kept returning was this: will speakers of Lojban really be able to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; of experience imposed upon them by their native languages? Will they really be able to think in Lojban, instead of translating into Lojban, and, if so, is Lojban sufficiently inter- cultural to permit its speakers to escape the &amp;quot;maps&amp;quot; that they acquired in learning their native languages?&lt;br /&gt;
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Students were accordingly somewhat skeptical about the feasibility of an empirical test of the Whorfian Hypothesis. How, exactly, would the learning of Lojban as a second language enable the Whorfian Hypothesis to be tested? I must admit that I don&#039;t quite understand what one would test and how.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response: I think the first half the question was answered by the previous discussion. By necessity, learning to think in Lojban will require a drastic reforming of one&#039;s semantic maps beyond that achievable by translating from the native tongue.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have no proof that &amp;quot;thinking in Lojban&amp;quot; is possible. We&#039;ll undoubtedly know within a year or two. We do have much anecdotal evidence. Lojbanists, who tend to be creative people and word-players in the first place, have habitually used Loglan/Lojban to create metaphors, then en- tertained themselves with the implications of the place structures as I did above with &amp;quot;computer run&amp;quot;. Some Loglan/Lojban usages, where they most clearly express what the speaker wants, have already crept back to English. Thus Jim Brown has for years used old Loglan anaphora in English as sex-neutral pronouns, in place of various English pronouns. &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; and other &amp;quot;mal-&amp;quot; pejoratives are slowly coming to replace English pejoratives in Nora and my everyday English speech.&lt;br /&gt;
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I myself have minimal experience in actually learning other languages, but I&#039;ve been told that to learn a language fluently, you have to be able to &#039;think&#039; in it, and adopt the &#039;maps&#039; associated with the second language. In the case of Lojban, this will be a Lojbanic map - not an English one. Can a Lojbanic map be learned? Second language learners have learned new languages (and their maps) both similar and drastically different from their own. Studies of English speakers using BASIC English indicate that if the new language is too similar to the old, it is actually harder to learn the new map. The Lojban map will have some similarities with the Chinese one, since they have similar methods of compounding tanru. It is unclear whether Lojban&#039;s unique grammar will cause any problems in learning its map. I suspect not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whether second language learners are adequate candidates for a Sapir-Whorf test has been subject to debate. Some believe that proper use of controls will allow a significant Sapir-Whorf effect to be verified. Others believe that we won&#039;t be able to test Sapir-Whorf until we have speakers who are raised to be bilingual, or even monolingual in Lojban from birth. Such a requirement won&#039;t be viable for some years, of course (there have been small numbers of Esperanto &#039;native speakers&#039;, so it isn&#039;t unthinkable that Lojban will one day support &#039;natives&#039;, too.).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second half, on testing Sapir-Whorf, can&#039;t be fully answered. Jim Brown proposed a flawed approach in his new edition of Loglan 1. John Parks-Clifford (pc) has written on the subject a couple of times. See JL6, JL7, and the essays at the end of the last issue JL10, for details on the topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Skepticism is valid and useful. We believe we&#039;ve created a tool that will display Sapir-Whorf effects if there are any, and which is sufficiently independent of natural language to allow isolation of effects to determine if their cause is a Sapir-Whorf effect, or something else. The problem now is to build a speaker base, and develop the means of measuring any perceived effect and ruling out non- Sapir-Whorf causes. Skeptics are the best source of people to poke holes in inadequate methods. (I should note that pc, our most &#039;forward&#039; methodologist at this point, does not believe that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is valid. Truly a healthy skepticism for an experiment like this.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. Once Lojban comes to be used as an instrument of communication, won&#039;t idioms naturally develop, thereby undermining its designed explicitness? The development of idioms is a natural phenomenon in any language that is actually used. And yet idioms are, arguable, the products of the culture-community of those who use a language. Wouldn&#039;t the inevitable emergence of idioms and &amp;quot;slang&amp;quot; defeat some of the purposes for which Lojban was created?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consequently, students asked, wouldn&#039;t Lojban be contaminated by the cultures of those who used it--and, as a result, lose not only some of its explicitness and univocality, but also some of its cultural neutrality?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: The development of idiom and slang is not well understood, although it is perceived to be uni- versal. The processes of slang development may indeed be a measurable Sapir-Whorf effect. What type of idiom, if any, develops in Lojban, and to what extent is explicitness lost? We&#039;ll certainly find out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has, by the way, a methodology for importing words from other languages by borrowing. these words are considered &#039;2nd class&#039; words already, and hence slang of a sort. Yet they will be the basis for labelling foods, animals, plants, chemicals, indeed all manner of jargon words and concrete terms that have minimal semantic associations. Lojban &#039;slang&#039;, will, like names, probably never really acquire deep semantic associations. It will probably tend to be avoided where possible, since borrowings tend to be longer, less clear, and harder to combine into compounds, than other words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban slang, in the creative sense of the word, will probably turn towards the creation of new tanru for old ideas. In this way the basic semantic mapping will slowly drift to keep the rigid place structures in line with usage. There will probably be evolution of place structures as well, but it isn&#039;t clear how significant this will be. Probably the occurrence of such drift will be tied to the formation of that peculiarly Lojbanic culture that we discussed above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is not, by the way, inherently explicit. It has an elaborate, carefully thought out, or at least much debated, system for ellipsis. I suspect that Lojban idiom will occur in the direction of simplification through the use of ellipsis, and that therefore, the idiom won&#039;t really mean anything other than what it says. If you want a non- idiomatic reading of the same predicate, you will fill in the non-obvious places normally omitted by the idiom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban will, to some extent, borrow idioms from natural language cultures, when those idioms are compatible with Lojban grammar and semantics. This isn&#039;t necessarily bad, as long as the borrowing isn&#039;t excessive (turning the language into a code), or linked to one particular culture (causing a bias).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Lojban will (hopefully) indeed become a &#039;natural language&#039; in the sense of having its own culture. If the culture is built by native-speaking Lojbanists, this culture would be the subject of massive sociological and linguistic experimentation, and we would know the answer on Sapir-Whorf. This indeed is the most desirable test for Sapir-Whorf, and methodology questions are generally based on the assumption that we want to know the answer before, and whether or not, such a culture comes to exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. Students seemed to be obsessed with the idea that languages are contaminated (or enriched) by culture. Lojban as presented seems innocent of culture. Yet if it were to be used it would be &amp;quot;corrupted&amp;quot; by culture and would therefore escape the intentions of its architects, in particular through the emergence of idioms and slang.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response (brief for once): I hope more than anything else that Lojban grows beyond my meager conceptions and intentions for its potential, and develops its own unique culture. Language is a bigger thing than any one person or small group can control; the French Academy knows this for sure. We have resisted Brown&#039;s attempt to create a Loglan/Lojban Academy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We hope merely to channel our loss of control away from destructive trends. But if they occur anyway, we still learn something.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. When languages are used, webs of connotative relations emerge: every natural language reflects in this way the history of the community of those who have used it. One signified (rose) suggests another signified in another semantic field (say, romance), which suggests any number of other signifieds. See Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System.&amp;quot; In any language actually used this web of a-logical relations would emerge. Wouldn&#039;t the emergence of such a web, in the community of speakers of Lojban, undermine its claims to be culturally neutral, fully explicit, unambiguous, and so on?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: If the web develops totally internally, from a spontaneous cultural development, it would not violate cultural neutrality. I&#039;ve already said that Lojban need not be explicit, nor, especially in the area of tanru, is Lojban semantically unambiguous. I think that we have retained enough flexibility in the creative aspects of Lojban to make the internal cultural development of such a web consistent with the areas that we have kept rigid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indeed, we have retained, primitives chosen by Jim Brown for body parts, animals, and materials that are metaphorically used by many cultures; yes, even &#039;rose&#039;. We recognize that they are the potential seeds of bias. Because we know these words are there, we can watch for their use and guide the community away from biased use in- sofar as we can recognize it. If the canary dies, we&#039;ll be wary of poison.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. Languages in use cannot be stabilized: they develop organically through usage by a community, adapting themselves to the needs of their speakers. Wouldn&#039;t that be the case with Lojban? What would be the consequences ofthis inevitable organic development?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: I think this was answered in response to 4. and 5., with a little hint in the last question. While I don&#039;t see a Lojban Academy trying to prevent organic development, there may be an organization trying to keep the development moving in a positive direction. This has generally been the function of poets; more recently of English teachers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that we have talked about &#039;baselining&#039; the language only long enough to ensure that critical mass exists internally among speakers of the language to resist external forces for change. We don&#039;t mind change if it is done by Lojban speakers thinking in and using their language in the way they choose. That is how culture develops.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, except in vocabulary growth, I think that linguistic drift has drastically slowed in the 20th century due to the printed word, nearly universal education, and mass communication. Where drift exists,language has tended towards uniformity among speakers rather than variation - hence the increasing use of &amp;quot;The Queen&#039;s English&amp;quot; dialect in Britain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8. Is the syntax devised for Lojban truly culturally neutral? Derived as it was from the formal logic that has evolved in Western European culture, what claims does it have to cultural neutrality? In Whorf&#039;s essay &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (enclosed), Whorf wonders whether our logic is truly universal. Does it really derive from something other than an analysis of the shape of thought constrained by Indo-European languages like Greek, Latin, German, and English? Whorf&#039;s article implies that we would possess a very different &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; had our science been bequeathed to us by the American Indians rather than the Western Europeans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s response: Predicate logic is probably not culturally neutral, nor the assumptions that would cause it to be valued. This is the essence of Brown&#039;s original concept for Loglan/Lojban in a Sapir-Whorf experiment:that metaphysical assumptions and cultural biases be kept to a minimums so that the one extreme bias causes an undeniably significant change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since Brown started, we&#039;ve identified other potential sources of Sapir-Whorf effects, most notably the elimination of constraints on thought that develops from our minimization of metaphysical assumptions (like singular/plural and us/them distinctions). These effects WOULD BE culturally neutral, and probably would show up in spite of minor biases other than the big &#039;L&#039; logic bias.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(John Parks-Clifford notes that the content of formal logic, if not the exact form, was independently derived in India and to a lesser extent in China. Every problem in Western logic turned up and was solved in India. Chinese logical thought was equally sophisticated, but its development was aborted after only a few decades, by political turmoil rather than by direct cultural rejection, and never re-emerged. Meanwhile, the Western form embraces contributions from Arabic as well as European sources. Logic was chosen as the basis for Lojban due to its simplicity of structure as well as for predictably significant Sapir-Whorf effects.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that while logic is not the only strong force guiding Lojban development that stems from Western thought.Other forces include the counters to logic such as &#039;liberty&#039;, &#039;free choice&#039;, and &#039;romantic ideals&#039;. Funny that no one worries about these forces destroying Lojban&#039;s cultural neutrality. Maybe we should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For that matter, as this question implies, modern science and the interest in the question of whether the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true also are based on Western tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think this type of question should be left for the philosophers, who may come up with a useful answer.Otherwise, in the extreme, we end up questioning whether the fact that we do our science the way we do causes the universe we observe to change, making the observations, and the science thus invalid. Sort of a Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle on a grand scale.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science is valuable as an endeavor if it gives useful results. Does knowing more about the nature of language give useful results? If Lojban is a language, will studying it teach us more about language? Does the fact that we&#039;ve defined some measurable control on the design of the language improve the chances that we can learn useful information from study Lojban? If the answer to these questions is &#039;yes&#039;, then Lojban will be worthwhile as a project, and valuable to those who learn it, those who study it, and the world that will be affected by it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Course Outline and Bibliography ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Gorsch&lt;br /&gt;
January, 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
TELL-TALE SIGNS:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An Introduction to Semiology&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Required Texts:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Marshall Blonsky, ed., On Signs (Baltimore, 1985): selections from Blonsky&#039;s collection will be marked with the letter &amp;quot;B&amp;quot; in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other readings to be distributed in class: these readings will be marked with an asterisk (*) in the schedule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
SCHEDULE&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 8/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE FIRST DAY OF CLASS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 9/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
INTRODUCTION: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;social Life as a Sign System,&amp;quot; from David Robey, ed., Structuralism: An Introduction (1973), pp. 57-72.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Pierre Guiraud, Semiology (1975), pp. 1-4 and 82-98.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THE WHORFIAN HYPOTHESIS: LANGUAGES AS WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
: *Benjamin Whorf, &amp;quot;Science and Linguistics&amp;quot; (1940), Language, Thought, and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf, ed. John B. Carroll (1956), pp. 207-219.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Clyde Kluckhohn, &amp;quot;The Gift of Tongues,&amp;quot; Mirror for Man (1949); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language, Fourth Edition (1974), ed. Wallace L. Anderson and N. C. Stageberg, pp. 38-47.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 10/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;How Culture Conditions the Colours We See,&amp;quot; B 157-715.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Anthony G. Wheeler, &amp;quot;Pitfalls of Perception,&amp;quot; The Skeptical Inquirer, Summer, 1988; rpt. in The Utne Reader, Sept./Oct. 1989, p. 100.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HOW LANGUAGES WORD AS SIGN-SYSTEMS&lt;br /&gt;
:*F. de Sussure, Course in General Linguistics, pp. 7-17, 65-78, 111-122.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Takao Suzuki, Words in Context: A Japanese Perspective on Language and Culture (1984), pp. 7-44.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 11/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ARTIFICIAL LANGUAGES: THE ATTEMPT TO ESCAPE CULTURE:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Read these selections in the order indicated. Try to get a sense of how each of these languages sounds and how each &amp;quot;works&amp;quot; as a way of expressing ideas. Where the texts tell you how to pronounce words and phrases, try it on your own. Where the readings provide texts in the languages and literal translation, examine these carefully. In examining the Esperanto passages look for words that you recognize from your knowledge of English, Spanish, French, and other European languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --ESPERANTO&lt;br /&gt;
: *George Cox, &amp;quot;Preface to the First Edition&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;L&#039;Espero,&amp;quot; A Grammar and Commentary on the International Language Esperanto, Second Edition, pp. v-xvii and xx-xxi.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Arthur Baker, &amp;quot;The Alphabet,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Sounds,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Exercise 1,&amp;quot; The American Esperanto Book (1907), pp. 7-11 and 78-80.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Baker, &amp;quot;Rules of the Grammar,&amp;quot; pp. 12-18.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Cox, &amp;quot;Conversation (Interparolado),&amp;quot; pp. 311-315.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: --LOGLAN/LOJBAN&lt;br /&gt;
: *Don Oldenburg, &amp;quot;Tongue-Twister of a Language,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle: Sunday punch, Nov. 26, 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan,&amp;quot; Scientific American, June, 1960, pp. 52-63.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;What is Lojban? (la lojban mo),&amp;quot; 1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *The Logical Language Group, &amp;quot;Translation of Lesson 6 Reading Text: lenu vitke lei rarna (Visiting Nature),&amp;quot; [Lojban Textbook] (1989), 6.43-6.46.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 15/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: DUE: ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY. Hand in a xerox of your annotated bibliography (keep a copy for yourself).&lt;br /&gt;
: Consult the Borzoi Handbook to refresh your memory on the proper form for entries in a bibliography. Annotate each entry: after reviewing the item, briefly describe it and explain how it might be useful to you in your investigation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A MODEL OF COMMUNICATION&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: T. Sebeok, &amp;quot;Pandora&#039;s Box: How and Why to Communicate 10,000 Years into the Future,&amp;quot; B 448-466.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SIGN-THEORY&lt;br /&gt;
: *Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 5-21.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, first part of &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-7 (to middle of the page).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 16/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SEMIOLOGY AS A METHOD OF ANALYSIS&lt;br /&gt;
: New York Times, &amp;quot;What&#039;s the real message of &#039;Casablanca&#039;? Or of a Rose?&amp;quot; B 424-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Wlad Godzich, &amp;quot;The Semiotics of Semiotics,&amp;quot; B 421-26 only (you need not read beyond Sec. 2: &amp;quot;On Cowboy Boots&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;When Cains of Difference Intersect: A Lesson,&amp;quot; B 441-43.&lt;br /&gt;
: Umberto Eco, &amp;quot;Casablanca, or the Cliches are Having a Ball,&amp;quot; B 35-38. (Think of Who Killed Roger Rabbit?, as well as Casablanca, if you have seen them.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second Half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 17/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: SOCIAL LIFE AS A SIGN SYSTEM&lt;br /&gt;
: *P. Guiraud, Semiology, 82-98: review.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Eco, &amp;quot;Social Life as a Sign System&amp;quot;: review.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: INTRODUCTION TO BODY LANGUAGE&lt;br /&gt;
: *Charles Downey, &amp;quot;A Guide to No-Fail Flirting,&amp;quot; San Francisco Chronicle, May 17,1989.&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot; (1971); rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 318-29.&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa&amp;quot; (1961), rpt. in Introductory Readings on Language (1975), ed. Anderson and Stageberg, pp. 330-35.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 18/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: READING OTHER CULTURES&lt;br /&gt;
: Jean Franco, &amp;quot;Killing Priests, Nuns, Women, Children,&amp;quot; B 414-20&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;The Way of Masks,&amp;quot; B 186-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Review:&lt;br /&gt;
: *E. T. and M. R. Hall, &amp;quot;The Sounds of Silence&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: *Leonard W. Doob, &amp;quot;Communication in Africa.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 22/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: LOOKING AT MODERN CULTURE: BECOMING AWARE OF &amp;quot;CULTURE&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: P. Guiraud, Semiology, pp. 99-104.&lt;br /&gt;
: Roland Barthes, Mythologies (1972), pp. 9-12, 50-52, 58-64, 84-87, and 109-31.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 23/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: U. Eco, &amp;quot;Strategies of Lying,&amp;quot; B 3-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Edmundo Desnoes, &amp;quot;Cuba Made Me So,&amp;quot; B 384-402.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Introduction . . .,&amp;quot; B xxvii-xxxv and xl-xliv.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 24/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: MARKETING AS APPLIED SEMIOLOGY&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Semiotics in the Marketplace,&amp;quot; B 434-5.&lt;br /&gt;
: Milton Glaser, &amp;quot;I Listen to the Market, &amp;quot; B 467-75.&lt;br /&gt;
: Ronald Weintraub, &amp;quot;Lifting the Veil,&amp;quot; B 475-480.&lt;br /&gt;
: M. Blonsky, &amp;quot;Endword,&amp;quot; B 505-11.&lt;br /&gt;
: Matthew Klein, &amp;quot;And Above All, Please Do Not Disturb,&amp;quot; B 481-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Jan 25/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: HOW THE MEDIA (RE-)CREATE THE EVENTS THEY REPORT&lt;br /&gt;
: Daniel Dayan and Elihu Katz, &amp;quot;Electronic Ceremonies: Television Performs a Royal Wedding,&amp;quot; B 16-32.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS (Second half)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
M Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
W Jan 29/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: REPORTS&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Th Feb 1/ SIGN-SYSTEMS: CULTURE-BOUND WAYS OF SEEING&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Robert Scholes, &amp;quot;Is There a Fish in This Text?&amp;quot; B 308-320.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michel de Certeau, &amp;quot;The Jabbering of Social Life,&amp;quot; B 146-54.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was written by Ralph Dumain over a year ago. We haven&#039;t printed it until now, because, as a bibliography relating to Sapir-Whorf, it is incomplete in omitting some of the basic references needed to understand what the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is. Dr. Gorsch&#039;s course outline at least partially remedies this. Readers seeking more on Sapir-Whorfshould also investigate the bibliography of either edition of Loglan 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bibliography on Language and Thought ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Ralph Dumain&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The question of the relation of thought to language is a multifaceted one and has been approached by such disciplines as philosophy, linguistics proper, sociology of language, sociology, anthropology, psychology, political science, and educational policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This selected bibliography is not representative of the field of language and cognition as a whole, nor of its historical evolution, nor of its most current work, nor of its most significant contributions. I have selected, in a nonsystematic way, works which illustrate different angles from which the issue may be considered and which illuminate the problems to be confronted. This bibliography reflects my interest in the high-level aspects of language and cognition, e.g.. the strong version of Whorf&#039;s hypothesis [the world view issue], particularly the human ability to formulate and critique concepts. For me, the issue of the ability to form and interrelate abstract concepts is exclusively an issue of semantics. The practical and political issue is the mastery of word meanings and the conquest of the opacity of semantic systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Omitted are works by William Labov and Basil Bernstein, two of the foremost researchers of the 1960&#039;s on issues of cognitive ability and social dialects. Bernstein was a pioneer in the comparison of standard English vs. British working class dialects, the formulation of the notions of elaborated and restricted code, and the investigation of different uses of language as social reinforcements. Labov presented a wealth of ethnographic data to prove that ghetto-dwelling Black Americans using so-called Black English were perfectly capable of abstract thinking, refuting assertions to the contrary. Labov also used transformational-generative grammar to analyze the syntax of Black English and to refute superstitions about linguistic deficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides paying more attention to recent developments in linguistic theory, one must also delve into the pragmatics of language more thoroughly, where much of the hidden dynamics of language and social control lie. There is much in the literature of philosophy, especially philosophy of science, that bears upon the tacit assumptions of Loglan ideologists about the nature of language, the limits to thought, the role of formal logic, and the nature of creativity and novelty in the progress of thought.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Annotated Bibliography&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bisseret, Noelle (1979) - Education, Class Language and Ideology. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul.&lt;br /&gt;
: Bisseret examines the views of sociologists of language who analyze class dialects, such as Basil Bernstein.Bisseret asserts that the logicality and coherence of the world belong to the dominant class.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Carroll, John B. (1964) - Language and Thought. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, Inc. See chapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and cognition&amp;quot;, esp. the section &amp;quot;The linguistic-relativity hypothesis&amp;quot; (p. 106-110).&lt;br /&gt;
: Carroll is skeptical of the strong Whorfian thesis. Evidence is lacking that grammatical differences between languages signify cognitive differences. He gives examples to show misleading extrapolations based only on linguistic evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chomsky, Noam (1973) - See Schaff, Adam.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Friedrich, Paul (1979) - Language, Context, and the Imagination: Essays by Paul Friedrich, selected and introduced byAnwar S. Dil. Stanford: Stanford University Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Friedrich disagrees with Whorf&#039;s views on language and metaphysics, but accepts the strong thesis in the realm ofpoetic language and its relation to the imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gyekye, Kwame (1977) - &amp;quot;Akan language and the materialist thesis: a short essay on the relation between philosophy and language&amp;quot;, in Studies in Language, vol. 1, no. 2, p. 237-244.&lt;br /&gt;
: Gyekye opposes linguistic relativity in philosophy. Examples are given of mentalistic linguistic expressions in English which are expressed physicalistically in Akan. A linguistic relativist would conclude that the Akan people are materialists, yet Akan ontology is actually dualistic, with an absolute distinction between body and soul.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Havranek, Bohuslav (1964) - &amp;quot;The functional differentiation of the standard language&amp;quot;, in: A Prague School Reader on Esthetics, Literary Structure, and Style, selected and translated from Czech by Paul L. Garvin. Washington: Georgetown University Press; p. 3-16.&lt;br /&gt;
: On lexical and syntactic aspects of standard vs. folk speech, different modes of utilization of the devices of language, intellectualization, automatization and foregrounding. Intellectualization of language makes possible precision, rigor, and abstractness. Syntactic devices enable an integrated structure of sentences. Automatization is the creation of conventional expressions with definite meanings; once established, an automatization does not attract attention to itself linguistically. Foregrounding is the use of language (usually uncommon) that attracts attention to itself, e.g.. live poetic metaphor. An expression automatized in one context may be foregrounded in another. Automatizations of science are different from those in conversation.&lt;br /&gt;
: This article is important for two complementary reasons: (1) It proposes requisites of intellectual language,especially the ability to express abstractions, which I believe is the key issue in being able to formulate and change one&#039;s world view; (2) automatization, in creating conventional expressions, not only makes possible the expression of concepts, but an automatization as such is no longer metaphorically alive and so no longer binds a thought to its particular linguistic expression (thus negating a putative Whorfian limitation on thought).&lt;br /&gt;
: Foregrounding is relevant to Loglan because as Loglan is entirely new, there are no cliches, no tiresome or worn expressions. Loglan seems poetic to some of its propagandists because the entire language is foregrounded. What might otherwise be banal seems to be exquisitely poetic. Whorf foregrounded Hopi grammar, making it a source of live metaphors for him if not for the Hopi themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jackendoff, Ray (1983) - Semantics and Cognition. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Deals with grammatical constraint, semantic structure and conceptual structure, and theory of representation. This reference is included not as an endorsement of a particular semantic theory but as an example of one of the more sophisticated recent treatments of semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kahane, Henry and Renee (1984) - &amp;quot;Linguistic aspects of sociopolitical keywords&amp;quot;, in Language Problems and Language Planning, vol. 8, no. 2, p. 143-160.&lt;br /&gt;
: The Kahanes examine the semantics of ideologically loaded words (keywords) and the processes by which they evolve over time. I think that ideological semantic systems create the most crucial biases in language, and so this article is important.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lakoff, George and Johnson, Mark (1980) - Metaphors We Live By. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: The authors make an important study of the metaphorical basis of language. In the final chapters they argue for an extreme relativism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Langacker, Ronald W. (1976) - &amp;quot;Semantic representations and the linguistic relativity hypothesis&amp;quot;, in Foundations of Language, vol. 14, p. 307-357.&lt;br /&gt;
: Langacker tries to formulate the hypothesis in a non-vacuous manner, and ultimately rejects the strong version,basing himself on a distinction between primary conceptual structures and the semantic representations into which thought is coded. Langacker uses the framework of generative semantics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Levitas, Maurice (1974) - Marxist Perspectives in the Sociology of Education. London: Routledge &amp;amp; Kegan Paul. Seechapter 7: &amp;quot;Language and deprivation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
: Levitas articulates the basic ideas of Vygotsky&#039;s view of language and thought and its educational implications.He accepts Vygotsky&#039;s view that word-meaning is the unit of verbal thought. Using Vygotsky and Luria, Levitas argues that working class children must be helped to master the elaborated code and to achieve in linguistic expression freedom from the context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Macnamara, John. 1970. &amp;quot;Bilingualism and thought&amp;quot;, in Georgetown University Round Table on Languages and Linguistics 1970: Bilingualism and Language Contact, edited by James E. Alatis; Washington: Georgetown University Press; p.25-45.&lt;br /&gt;
: Includes discussion by other participants. The inadequacies of Whorf&#039;s formulations are analyzed. Macnamara urgently emphasizes the need for a semantic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newmeyer, Frederick J. (1983) - Grammatical Theory: Its Limits and Its Possibilities. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Newmeyer clarifies the nature and intent of generative linguistics, answering common objections. Newmeyer deals with distinctive advantages of generative linguistics, its potential applications, and the role of other types of linguistics that deal with aspects of language outside of the reach of grammatical theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986a) - The Politics of Linguistics. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: This is an excellent treatment of the history of linguistics and its internal and external politics. Newmeyer attacks Whorf&#039;s notions about grammar and world view and gives practical examples of Whorfianism&#039;s racist implications.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
______ (1986b) - Linguistic Theory in America. 2nd edition. Orlando: Academic Press, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
: This differs from the first edition in that it abridges treatment of earlier developments such as rise of abstract syntax and generative semantics in the late 1960&#039;s while adding information on recent developments. This book gives a feel for the problems and evolution of theories, and shows how the rise and fall of competing theories or versions of a theory come about as responses to real problems. A reader can also see that Chomsky&#039;s particular theoretical formulations form only part (and not always the most influential current) of the stream of modern linguistic theory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rossi-Landi, Ferruccio (1973) - Ideologies of Linguistic Relativity. The Hague: Mouton.&lt;br /&gt;
: This book analyzes the shortcomings of and the ideology behind the doctrine of linguistic relativity, including the white liberal guilt about Indians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Schaff, Adam (1973) - Language and Cognition. Translated by Olgierd Wojtasiewicz; edited by Robert S. Cohen;introduction by Noam Chomsky. New York: McGraw-Hill. [Originally published in Polish, 1964.]&lt;br /&gt;
: Chomsky&#039;s introduction is a valuable critique of Whorf and of superficial understanding of languages. He shows that the imputation to a language of a conceptual system about time based on its tense system does not hold up to examination. The English tense system with its use of verbal auxiliaries (including modals) suggests a different conception of time than idea of time characteristic of modern English-speaking and other European peoples.&lt;br /&gt;
: Schaff gives a history of ideas (mostly in philosophy) about language and thought from 18th century German idealism, through Neo kantianism, conventionalism, logical positivism, to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and then adds his own thoughts on the matter. Brown&#039;s Scientific American article on Loglan is referenced in the bibliography but is not mentioned in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vygotsky, Lev (1986) - Language and Thought. 2nd edition. Translation newly revised and edited by Alex Kozulin.Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.&lt;br /&gt;
: Vygotsky was a pioneer in the area of developmental psychology, language and thought.&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I said in one response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class questions that I hoped that Lojban would move beyond the ideas that I had for it. It already has. The following essay describes a potential use for Lojban that I never had thought of,and have absolutely no experience that would help me form an opinion on its viability.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I won&#039;t. Let&#039;s let David speak for himself. I welcome other&#039;s comments on his ideas, and I&#039;ll print any that seem of general interest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lojban and Stream of Consciousness Writing ==&lt;br /&gt;
by David C. Morrow&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stream of consciousness, or subjective writing, was developed by Joyce, Proust, Woolf, Faulkner, and others to convey a character&#039;s immediate awareness and mental activities (an &amp;quot;interior monolog&amp;quot;). Leon Edel, who terms works using it &amp;quot;Modern Psychological Novels,&amp;quot; lists four salient elements.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each work or section of a work takes the consistent viewpoint of a single character. The reader must puzzle out what is happening from the character&#039;s interior monolog. Time moves according to the associations of the character&#039;s thoughts and memories rather than a simple linear flow. Finally, although authors using this mode are realists, these very devices force them to be symbolists in order to create the impression of being alive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is the second and fourth elements that present problems for author and reader. Part of the difficulty is that persons whose background enables them to enjoy piecing together the subtle but objective clues of mystery novels may not be so adept at empathizing with other&#039;s feelings or seeing the clues that reveal them. About that the writer can do little but keep following (or decide not to follow) his or her artistic bent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But these complex puzzles hold difficulties even for persons who enjoy them that their creators may not have foreseen. It is hard enough to show the thoughts of individuals contemporary to a reader; when a novel has become non contemporary, like those of the writers mentioned above, or is about an earlier time (consider McKinlay Kantor&#039;s Andersonville, written in the 1950&#039;s and intended to represent the consciousness of participants in the War Between the States) the difficulty is increased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because, for example, few modern persons depend on horses for transportation and so most lack the associations with them or the knowledge of their behavior that must have been common to people at and before the turn of the Twentieth Century. The same might apply to candles or to certain foods. Again, the little sidelines of style and fashion, the political and social quirks and nuances of a time, like geographical localisms, would figure large in the mind of a participant yet disappear even from historical footnotes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if a storyteller can discover and work there into a character&#039;s mind, they may require as much explanation as unfamiliar elements in an old text. During the 1982 and 1986 episodes of murder by poisoned Tylenol capsules, offering someone -- stranger, boss, spouse -- that medicine carried a host of special if temporary meanings. To one not alive then, the unexplained appearance of such an incident in a story set in those years would be puzzling.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The same thing must apply even to ordinary narrative writing about members of another culture; the readers may not be as familiar with that life-way as the author. This often forces the artist to employ what are supposed to be common human traits, such as romantic love, that may not be common at all; Classical cultures regarded romantic love as a form of lunacy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Historical writers, who are nearly always depicting foreign cultures even when their setting is the recognizable antecedent of the readers&#039; own, generally commit such anachronisms. Often they make their story accessible by depicting &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; characters in rebellion against their culture. That device is an anachronism in most cases, since tolerance even of one&#039;s own nonconformity is largely a Modern Western value.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subjective writing might serve better in depicting social changes. One might wish to show why history took this turn once and another when a like situation again arose, or to examine through the eyes of characters, who likely did not intend their actions&#039; present results, the origin of some philosophical or religious idea. An example of this last might be someone who realized that human sacrifice does not necessarily make the crops grow or that paternity is part of reproduction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Such persons&#039; concepts and motives would differ so vastly from ours that even were an author to reconstruct their consciousness with a degree of accuracy, the story value would be lost because it would be difficult for readers to untangle them without corresponding scholarship. Unless, that is, there were also some such way of clarifying them as anchoring description in physical reality as we know it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When a character in a subjective narrative lacks knowledge or understanding the author may juxtapose some other person&#039;s viewpoint or even an omniscient one. Faulkner used both to clarify his retarded character Benjy&#039;s innocent and atemporal impressions, and Durrell provided an entire volume of his Quartet with the omniscient viewpoint on one character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This would not be enough in many cases. If the characters have very primitive ideas, believing, say, that the sun is a beetle or that there is no natural death but that everyone always dies of injury or sorcery, then much of their thinking -- the internal monolog comprising the story narrative -- would seem ridiculous or psychotic if not incomprehensible. In this case it would not help to play one character&#039;s consciousness off against another&#039;s, since they would all share the same assumptions even if their intellects differed. The use of a deliberate anachronism would only work for current readers, even when dealing with contemporary characters, since nobody can know with what values or types future readers will identify. Only objective narrative of some type will enable one to make such a tale both universal and particular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is where Lojban can be useful. A writer could use a natural language to construct a symbolic flow of consciousness belonging to the characters, filled with verifiable and if necessary imagined elements, impressions, feelings, and motives. Linguistic devices can be used, and purely idiosyncratic character traits developed within a strange conceptual frame.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clarify what is objectively happening or convey meanings of invented symbols and transitory elements without interrupting the story&#039;s dramatic movement, and do so in a way that will (we hope) remain accessible to future readers, the writer can use lojban to describe the physical setting, the movements, the actions, even in some cases the dialog of the characters whose interior monolog is in some artificially specialized form of English -- or French, or Spanish, or whatever. Lojban descriptions may either be given in separate chapters or sections, or interspersed with the streams of characters&#039; awareness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not only would this provide the readers an anchor in relating the characters&#039; minds to theirs, but also in the case of completely abnormal persons in alien cultures allow insight into their minds. Finally, the story could retain its unity as an artistic whole without anachronisms or intrusions from outside.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Michael Helsem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of this issue&#039;s Lojban writing comes from one person. This is partially due to space and time, and partially because Michael Helsem has been so prolific in Lojban over the past few months. Michael has taken to heart what I&#039;ve said too many times: the language is easy to learn if you just try to use it. The writings in this issue prove that point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You&#039;ve seen a couple pieces of Michael&#039;s work in JL10, written before Michael ordered the textbook lessons last fall. Michael wrote the following after reading Lesson 4, which calls for a student to write a self-description; it wasn&#039;t particularly grammatical, as you&#039;ll see in the translation section which shows what he actually wrote. We didn&#039;t get a chance to provide feedback to Michael until after JL10 was out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Michael received JL10 in late January, he had still not had direct feedback from us. However, seeing his own article saying that Lojban could be used to write poetry, Michael took up his own challenge. We had 2 limericks and 2 longer poems in February. Although he had merely finished the lessons, the JL10 samples gave Michael enough good examples of good Lojban that I had only to change two or three words in each to make the grammar correct. These poems are also printed below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally we responded to Michael&#039;s self-description with Nora&#039;s detailed review, which is given in the translation section. I have since gotten a letter from Michael every week or two - 2 or 3 pages handwritten in Lojban (with interlinear translations - please don&#039;t send me untranslated Lojban until we both know that you are writing nearly error free. Otherwise, if your Lojban isn&#039;t close to correct, we&#039;ll get extremely confused, and if it&#039;s reasonably close, we won&#039;t be able to comment on subtle shades of meaning - we have to take the Lojban as meaning what you intend). The lot includes a couple more poems, and a couple of typewritten sheets of &#039;poetic tanru&#039;. While there are occasional malglico anglicisms, Michael has in 6 months and about 5 or 6 writing attempts become about as good a Lojban writer as there is outside of those few of us working on defining the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has done this only with the level 3 materials including only the 6 textbook lessons so far published, and the outdated cmavo list. While he has studied other languages, Michael is not a linguist. He does not have LogFlash or flash cards - he&#039;s learning the vocabulary by using it. But I don&#039;t mind it a bit if someone gets a word wrong because they don&#039;t yet know it. You can&#039;t learn a language without making mistakes and learning from them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s that easy - you have to be willing to try writing a couple times, and wait for us to review them (which will get easier as we get more of you up to Michael&#039;s level of proficiency), read the examples printed in these newsletters, and then write a little more - in a few months you&#039;ll be writing as good Lojban as Michael is (no - I&#039;m not promising to make you a publishable poet in a couple of months - just a reasonably competent Lojbanist).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So let&#039;s see some more Lojban from the 100 other level 3 Lojbanists, most of whom I haven&#039;t heard from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Self-Description (28 Sept 1989) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra .itu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi.zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys. .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani.ibabo ca le ko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti .ibabotezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loikavidni cu&#039;i .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a caranji toi .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenuko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pufinti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o rinalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa leci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Included in the self-description letter, was a postscript, also in Lojban:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first two limericks were Michael&#039;s first attempts at original Lojban poetry after the self-description. They each needed a little work, but his errors were minor. He wasn&#039;t too happy with the changes to the first one, since they end up stretching the rhyme and rhythm scheme to the limit of what is acceptable in a limerick. However, if you readwith the annotated stress given in the pronunciation guide, running the syllables together into a single beat where marked (or in one case running three syllables into two beats).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As corrected)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            la .uorf. .e la saPIR. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            lenu loi rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i leva sidbo ca genytsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lah .WOHRF. .eh,lah,sah,PEER. poo,PEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -    /         ----,----     /     -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,NOO    loi,rehm,BAHN,goo,lei,MEHN,see/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -   -      /    -   -   /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo SEEM,sah leh,kah LAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -----   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
            /gee,heh,PAH,mei nahl,BAHN,zoo/&lt;br /&gt;
              -----   /      -   -       /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee KOO,hee,leh,vah,SEED,bo,ca    GEHN,uh,tsee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /      -   -----   /       -  -     /   ------&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2. (Minor corrections approved by author)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            loi    ve cusku cu mo loi se cusku&lt;br /&gt;
            cumda&#039;i  .i    mi danfu lu le sisku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nitcu pa jaspu&lt;br /&gt;
             .uu  .i ku&#039;i na vasru&lt;br /&gt;
            fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /loi,veh,SHOOS,koo,shoo,MO,loi,seh,SHOOS,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /    -    -    /  -   -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoom,DAH,hee .    ee,mee DAHN,foo    loo,leh,SEES,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          -    /   -    -----    /    -      ----     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,NEE,choo,pah,ZHAHS,poo/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /    -   -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /.woo.ee KOO,hee,nah,VAHS,roo/&lt;br /&gt;
               ----   /      -   -      /    -&lt;br /&gt;
           /fah,REE    ree,khee,SHEE peh,hee LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /     -    -       /   -   -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3. (20 Mar 1990)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The third limerick was written after I gave him feedback on the first two, and received while I was typing thisnewsletter in. It was almost perfect as written. He had left out a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; and not terminated some &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clauses -mistakes I still make a lot - but his translation and his notes on intent made it trivial to fix them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            sei    lu leka    sarcu li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
            lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami&lt;br /&gt;
            cu nenri  .i RA mi se prami&lt;br /&gt;
             .i ku&#039;i le pratci&lt;br /&gt;
             cu nu sisti kei batci&lt;br /&gt;
            le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
        /sei,loo leh,kah,SAHR,shoo lee,hoo,SHMEH,neh nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /lo,SHEEZ,rah,zah,SMOON,zheh lo,heh,SKAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -   /      -   -       /     -   ----    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /shoo,NEHN,ree .    ee,RAH mee,seh,PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          -   /       -     -  /    -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
            /. ee KOO,hee,leh,PRAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -   /   -   -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
            /shoo,noo,SEES,tee,kei,BAH,chee/&lt;br /&gt;
               -----   /    -    -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
           /leh,noon,MEHN,khroo . woo TA,hee loi,glah,SLAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
         -----      /     -     -   /  -      ------    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first of these is Michael&#039;s translation from the Latin of Catallus, which he wrote on 26 Nov 1989, prior to receiving any feedback from us. His grammar had already improved significantly over the self-description, with most ofhis mistakes being wrong choices of cmavo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
                         seide&#039;e se    sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                         prami joi xebni fa mi&lt;br /&gt;
                          .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          do nu&#039;o cusku     .i mi&lt;br /&gt;
                           genai caca jimpe    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
                          gi ru&#039;i lifri    cai je&lt;br /&gt;
                            dunku ri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                   /sei,deh,heh     seh,SAHN,gah  bee,MUU,moi . nee,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
                       /PRAH,mee,zhoi,KHEHB,nee  fah,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                   /. ee,LOO  lah,heh,DEE,hoo  kee,hah,vau  LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /doh     noo,ho     SHOOS,koo . ee    mee/&lt;br /&gt;
                    /geh,nai . SHAH,shah,ZHEEM,peh  lah,heh,DEH,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
                       /gee,roo,hee     LEE,free  SHAI    zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
                             /DOON,koo ree/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next two poems were written at about the same time as the first two limericks (10 Feb 1990). These, however, are poems of some substance. For whatever reason, Michael made fewer and less serious errors in the longer poems than in the limericks:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              le firgai    pu&#039;u se    vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              fe zo pei    ca rapcpedu cai&lt;br /&gt;
              fa mi .ei    ne tai do pe pu    fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi vimcu ro lei firgai    levi&lt;br /&gt;
              sluni po&#039;u lonu djica .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
              ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i pu    najenai    ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
              mi djuno leri cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
              .a lo nalsti nu fasnu cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
              po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  LOHZH,bo,PEHM,shee gee,heh seh,SHMEH,neh  LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,FEER,gai  poo,hoo,seh,VEEM,shoo  vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /feh zo,PEI  shah,rahp,SHPEH,doo    SHAI/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fah,MEE    .EI  neh,tai,DOH,peh,poo  fee,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo,poh,hee  loi,so,HEE,plo  SEHN,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /.ee,mee,VEEM,shoo  ro,lei,FEER,gai  leh,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /SLOO,nee     po,hoo     lo,noo,JEE,shah . ee,SHEH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /ZHOO,hee,doh,hoo     ree,khee,REH  moo,zhuh,tee,suh,BAHN,ro    po,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,koo,hee  POO  nah,zheh,nai    SHAH,ku/&lt;br /&gt;
          /mee,JOO,no  leh,ree  shoo,muh,MEH,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh  leh,zhei  ree  seh,SKEE,shoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /fo  po,hee  lo,noo,KAHN,sah  kah,ZMAHK,see/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. AH  lo,NAHL,stee  noo,FAHS,noo     sheesh,CHEE,mah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /po,hah .    AH,sah,hoo  pah,DRAH,tah noo,kah,BEHB,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the following, Michael came close to perfection in grammar. He omitted only the hyphen &#039;r&#039;s in &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; in the final line, while inserting a couple of superfluous but permitted &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s that I left in to avoid changing his sound qualities any more than necessary (plus - as an editor, I prefer to defer to the author where possible). Of course, Michael&#039;s result differs slightly in meaning from the translation he gave me; however, since it is supposed to be Lojban poetry, I&#039;m letting the Lojban take precedence over the English, although I&#039;ll mention the changes needed to match his English translation in the appropriate section below.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
          /loi,kah,ZVAH,tee     vau,LEE,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
          /tee,heh    lo,noo,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /beh  leh,MOO,heh     ke,LOON,rah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /kah,shoo,kluh,MOOL,no  shoo,KHAHM,goo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,KOO,hee  mee,DRAH,tah,SAHL,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,SKEE,nee,ree  leh,kah,MAHN,koo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. eh,lo    MEE,pree,noo,ZAH,stee .    eh . ah,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,noo    kah,VLEE,pah  po,hoo  ro,lo/&lt;br /&gt;
          /teh,PEHN,shoo beh,leh,MOON,zheh,seh,REEN,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee,shah  leh,MOO,heh  keh,LOON,rah  kah  shai,r,SHEEN,lah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /koo  leh,LOON,rah,SHOO,klah  shoo,BEEN,kho/&lt;br /&gt;
          /leh,ree    PAH,mei,ZGAH,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
          /. ee  mee,GO,hee     gee,heh,koo,hee,RO,roi/&lt;br /&gt;
          /poo  bee,hee,shah,ZGAH,nah  leh,mee,kah,NO,mei  zhee,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following was dated 12 Mar 1990. It was perfectly grammatical as written, although we&#039;ve changed two lujvo minimally after discussion with Michael.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/dee,heh  seh,SHMEH,neh     LOO/&lt;br /&gt;
           /meh,lah     sah,PEER . wohrf . lee,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,too,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /ko  lei,doh,seh,MEEP,ree leh/&lt;br /&gt;
           /SOOT,rai,nahl,MOR,zhee,shah,DOON,dah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee,lo,NAHR,zhoo  zhoi,REEZH,no/&lt;br /&gt;
           /FAHS,noo,bah,SNOO,zhee    ro,lei,DRAH,tah/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           /. ee  zo,heh  TAHG,zhee,LOHG,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/too,hoo/&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael has also sent me a couple of pages that he&#039;s created as exercises in making tanru and lujvo, but I&#039;ll save them for next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ke&#039;u coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Again, Greetings!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seinskicu noi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i di&#039;e du lu&#039;a le ve seirskicu poi mi pu ciska sepu&#039;a lemi bazi ckupra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: The following has-the-same-identity-as, loosely speaking, the self-description which I write to-please my imminent book-producer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;seinskicu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;seirskicu&amp;quot;: You must glue on a CVV to the front of any lujvo, unless there are only two terms and the second term is a CCV. The &#039;glue&#039; is a vocalic &#039;r&#039; unless the second rafsi begins with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot;, in which case use vocalic &#039;n&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot; says the following gives further information to identify WHICH self-description is being talked about; &amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; assumes you know which self-description is being talked about, and just gives incidental information about it. See Less. 5 &amp;amp; 6.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maikl. &#039;elsym. du lo lea zoi zy gnostik zy joi lo vazyjbe xabju be la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i tu&#039;e ko&#039;a goi la maiky&#039;elsym. me la&#039;e zoi .zy. gnostik .zy. gi&#039;e jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u la delys.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Long scope beginning) He, standing for Michael Helsem, is a-referrent-of &amp;quot;gnostik&amp;quot; and (is) a born-city- inhabitant of Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On &amp;quot;du...&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me...&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la maikl. &#039;elsym.&amp;quot; is not necessarily equal in identity to &amp;quot;a gnostic-and-there-born- dweller-of-Dallas&amp;quot;; there is a lot more to Michael Helsem than that, and probably there are other Gnostic natives of Dallas, too. What you want to say is that Michael Helsem IS a Gnostic..., like saying that this IS a letter (&amp;quot;ti xatra&amp;quot;). To do that, you want to make a selbri out of Gnostic, which you do with &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot; changes the following quoted piece into it&#039;s referent.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; means the combination is true, but probably NOT each individually. For example, if we carry a piano up the stairs with you on one end and me on the other, NEITHER of us has individually carried it up (&amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;); but, both of us together have (&amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vazyjbe&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;jbeta&#039;uxa&#039;u&amp;quot;: Just a suggestion [Michael agreed.] The &amp;quot;va&amp;quot; part doesn&#039;t really necessarily pick up Dallas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael revised the preferred spelling of his name after reading a separate note from me. His original form is invalid, because &#039; is NOT an &#039;h&#039;, even though it is pronounced like one. The apostrophe is a vowel buffer, and is permitted only between two vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i bazi leko&#039;a nu jbena sei da&#039;i se&#039;u so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i baziki lenu ko&#039;a jbena kei da&#039;i so&#039;i finpe pu farlu fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Shortly after the event of his being born, really, many fish fell from the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: This resets &#039;story&#039; time for all further discussion (until re-reset) to &amp;quot;shortly after the event of his being born&amp;quot;. Sentences coming after with no time referent are assumed to progress somewhat in time.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;le ko&#039;a nu jbena&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;his event of birth&amp;quot;, meaning an event of birth relating to him; possibly his son&#039;s birth. &amp;quot;le nu ko&#039;a jbena&amp;quot; makes it clear that the one being born was him.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; closes off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; clause so it doesn&#039;t presume the &amp;quot;so&#039;i finpe&amp;quot; is another sumti on &amp;quot;jbena&amp;quot; of the clause. &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; is a discursive and therefore somewhat parenthetical to begin with. You can still close it in parentheses, but not with &amp;quot;sei...se&#039;u&amp;quot;, which takes a bridi (it is meant for a metalinguistic statement which is otherwise not permitted in the position because it would be ungrammatical); if you do want to put &amp;quot;da&#039;i&amp;quot; in parentheses, you can use &amp;quot;to...toi&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice ti&#039;u paci nanca ko&#039;a se pu darxi lo karce joi pu stali lo roktu&#039;u ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ca leko&#039;a pacimoi nanca ko&#039;a se darxi lo karce gi&#039;e ba stali nenri lo roktu&#039;u ca ze&#039;e ta&#039;e so&#039;o masti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Trans: Then, at-the-time-of his thirteenth year, he is hit be a car and will be stayingly-inside a rock-tube at- [unspecified size interval]-continuously several months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ibabo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ice&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, but implies nothing about the timing; for &amp;quot;and-then&amp;quot; you want &amp;quot;.ibabo&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;, like a letter is dated with a certain date even though it was perhaps begun earlier and finished later, and it remains a letter even after. For &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;paci nanca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;thirteen years&amp;quot;, making your phrase into &amp;quot;dated thirteen years&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;thirteenth&amp;quot;, and prefacing by &amp;quot;leko&#039;a&amp;quot; makes it into &amp;quot;his&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se pu darxi&amp;quot; is ungrammatical; it would have to be &amp;quot;pu se darxi&amp;quot;. However, since the time was already set as &amp;quot;in his thirteenth year&amp;quot;, the indication of past tense would mean something earlier than then: &amp;quot;During his thirteenth year, he earlier had ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pu stali lo roktu&#039;u&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;remained a rock-tube&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u so&#039;o masti&amp;quot;: Once again, you don&#039;t want &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. The tense I put in I would not expect you to have built, but it does mean during.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice tezu&#039;enai leke za&#039;i pu cfari bancycu&#039;e tai lo se ctuca po&#039;u ratske kei ko&#039;a pu fanmo se du&#039;a lo ckulypikta po&#039;u zu&#039;o vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo tezu&#039;enai leza&#039;i cfari zvati le bancycu&#039;e tai lo tadni pe loi ratske kei ko&#039;a mulno gi&#039;e te dunda lo ckulypikta pe loika vidni cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, ungoaled-by [i.e. despite] the state of startingly-attending the beyond-school by method of a taught-one of atom-science, he was complete and was given a school-ticket of videonesses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;leke...&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is not needed since it all groups the same with or without. The &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end will end the clause by ending the &amp;quot;za&#039;i&amp;quot; abstraction. (The ending cmavo for &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; was changed to &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; anyway.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;za&#039;i cfari bancycu&#039;e&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;state of startingly being-a-college&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; (now &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;) takes a sumti; &amp;quot;ratske&amp;quot; is a selbri. You need a descriptor to turn it into a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fanmo&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;is-an-end-of&amp;quot;, like &amp;quot;le fanmo&amp;quot; of a rope. &amp;quot;mulno&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is-complete&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se du&#039;a...&amp;quot;: I guess you could use this form. It is a lot more vague than my suggested change.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;zu&#039;o vidni&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;activity of being a video [screen]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot;: have you considered &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot; (student)? [he hadn&#039;t and asked us to change all occurrences of &amp;quot;se ctuca&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;tadni&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ice ko&#039;a pu litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .ibabo ko&#039;a litru ji&#039;i re tumplita&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via approximately two land-planes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .ibabo ko&#039;a litru re tumplita lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Then, he traveled via two land-planes, loosely speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; is a discursive; discursives apply to text metalinguistically. In your usage, &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot; was applying to your tanru for continents, and not to the number two. For &amp;quot;approximately&amp;quot; to apply to the &amp;quot;two&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ji&#039;i&amp;quot; is much better.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael responded that his intent was metalinguistic - he was &#039;loosely speaking&#039;, and that he preferred &amp;quot;lu&#039;a&amp;quot;.I&#039;m not sure whether the result means quite what he intends, but it isn&#039;t necessarily &#039;wrong&#039;.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .ica&#039;o ko&#039;a ki pu vi&#039;o zgikei pi&#039;o skami je damri .ui to joi ca toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i kiku ca&#039;o ko&#039;a pu vi&#039;o zgikei lo skami .e lo damri vau .ui to ji&#039;a ca ranji toi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Incidentally, he did occasionally music-play with a computer and [with] drums, (whee!) (additionally now continuing).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot;: Without a specific time reference to reset to, this jumps back to current time. Since the timing of this and following pieces was not clearly specified as continuing in progression from previous events, I will specify these specifically and only in reference to the present.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pi&#039;o&amp;quot; not needed since the first place of &amp;quot;zgikei&amp;quot; (based on &amp;quot;kelci&amp;quot;) would be what is played on/with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;je&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;.e&amp;quot;: Again, like &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e&amp;quot;, I assume it is true of each separately, and not that you played music on your computer-drum.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;vau&amp;quot;: I used this to close off the sentence so the &amp;quot;.ui&amp;quot; would apply to the sentence as a whole. Generally it applies only to the preceding word, or following a structural cmavo, the construct that the preceding word initiates or closes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi ca&amp;quot; is not grammatical as a complete utterance, unfortunately. I rephrased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i ko&#039;a neke lo se ctuca po&#039;u la vitgenctain. joi la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba kei .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri nuke tirna le nike ko&#039;a pifyzifydi&#039;a la&#039;u panononono rupnu .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i ko&#039;a no&#039;u lo tadni pe la vitgenctain. .e la&#039;i latmo rampemcyzba ge&#039;u .o&#039;o paroi pu lifri lenu tirna lenu ko&#039;a se pifyzifydi&#039;a lo rupnu be li panononono .uecai&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: He, a taught-one relating to Wittgenstein and the Latin love-poem-makers, (indignation), once did experience the event of hearing the event of his being prisoner-free be-priced by dollars in-amount-of 10000 (strong surprise).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot;: These have been switched, probably after you wrote this. Since we in the class found that the non-restrictive qualifier was used a lot more than the appositive, we made it the shorter word, &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. Thus&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;(incidentally) is/does/is-related-to-in-some-manner&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;is incidentally the same identity as&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; have been switched (used later in the sentence).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ke lo...kei&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; does group some things, but they are always selbri; it is ungrammatical before a sumti. The&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; phrase is closed by a sometimes-elidable &amp;quot;ge&#039;u&amp;quot;, so I have used that instead of the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; that isn&#039;t allowed there either.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I rephrased the last piece. The literal translation would otherwise have been (after putting &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; before the &amp;quot;nu ke tirna&amp;quot;): &amp;quot;experienced the event of hearing the amount of (he was a prisoner-free-price relating to approximately 10000 dollars)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Instead of &amp;quot;panononono&amp;quot; you can use &amp;quot;panoki&#039;o&amp;quot;; it&#039;s a matter of taste. Your choice, being longer, emphasizes its size. [Michael responded that he was engaging in a little word-play.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .iri&#039;o pa&#039;a pemci ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a joi pu pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .iri&#039;o ko&#039;a pujeca zbasu so&#039;i cimpi&#039;a ne pa&#039;a lei pemci gi&#039;e pu finti pa rapnerpluja clacku ri&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Anyway, he did-and-does make many paint-pictures besides poems, and did create one repeat-inside-complex long- book, etc..&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;On placing &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;: Usually there is one sumti you wish to parallel with what follows &amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot;. Is the poem in parallel with you in the making of many paintings? Or, is it in parallel with the paintings as being made by you? I assume the latter. It really should be attached, then, to the paintings to show that&#039;s what it is in parallel with; you attach it with &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. If it is left unattached totally, the only interpretation I can think of is that &amp;quot;the poem&amp;quot; is in parallel with &amp;quot;I make many paintings and ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;joi pu&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;gi&#039;e pu finti&amp;quot;: Alas, ungrammatical. &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot; before &amp;quot;one repeat-inside-complex long-book&amp;quot; (which is what you have) means &amp;quot;before one ...&amp;quot;. You just can&#039;t leave out another selbri if you want to change the tense from &amp;quot;did-and-do&amp;quot; to just &amp;quot;did&amp;quot;. There is a proposed addition, parallel to &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; that will refer to the current sentence&#039;s selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .isa&#039;u ca ko&#039;a xabju la .ok. klif. sei jarbu se&#039;u pa&#039;a le ko&#039;a ractu me&#039;e la byroz. sei se ta&#039;o ri du lo nalcumfanva valkei se&#039;u vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .isa&#039;u ki ca ku ko&#039;a ne pa&#039;a leko&#039;a ractu no&#039;u me&#039;e zo byroz. sei ta&#039;o ri nalcumselfanva valselkei se&#039;u cu xabju la .ok. klif. no&#039;u lo jarbu vau tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Simply speaking, now he, besides his rabbit who is named &amp;quot;Burroughs&amp;quot; (by the way, that is an untranslatable pun), inhabits Oak Cliff, which is a suburb (end of long scope).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ki ca ku&amp;quot;: The &amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; is there to make sure time is reset to the present so the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; won&#039;t be taken to mean &amp;quot;simultaneous with the previous sentence&#039;s time&amp;quot;. The &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; is needed to close off the &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, which otherwise would pick up the &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; into a phrase meaning &amp;quot;at the time of him&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;pa&#039;a&amp;quot; again has been linked to what it&#039;s in parallel with.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la byroz.&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;that which is referred to by the name &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, namely your rabbit; the sentence then winds up stating your rabbit is called by his furry self, making you have to reproduce him to call him. &amp;quot;zo byroz.&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the word &#039;byroz.&#039;&amp;quot;, which is a much better thing to have as a name.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I stuck in a couple &amp;quot;sel-&amp;quot;s into your lujvo to make it clearer that the second place is what is wanted in the corresponding tanru. &amp;quot;nalcumselfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible thing-to be translated&amp;quot;, as opposed to &amp;quot;nalcumfanva&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;not-possible translator&amp;quot;. Similarly &amp;quot;valselkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word thing-played-with&amp;quot;, vs. &amp;quot;valkei&amp;quot; = &amp;quot;word player&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: .i .ia ro brivla cu vasru pa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i .ia ro jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an-error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i .ia ro leivi jufra cu vasru su&#039;opa le ci&#039;i mu&#039;e srera ri&#039;o fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (Certainty), All of these-mass-of sentences contain at-least-one of the infinitely-many achievements of being-an- error, to return to the point (over-and-out).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;brivla&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;relationship word&amp;quot;; from your translation, you want &amp;quot;jufra&amp;quot;, which is &amp;quot;sentence&amp;quot; (or possibly &amp;quot;bridi&amp;quot;). [Michael correctly improved on our correction.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;su&#039;o&amp;quot; is what you wanted to get the &amp;quot;at least&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;at least one&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: co&#039;o tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : .i co&#039;o sei tai zirjbo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: Bye (observing a methodically purple-lojbanic thing).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: .i mi stali ledo memi tai loi zirjbo .i co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: I remain your pertaining-to-me-thing, by methods purple-lojbanic. Bye.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Because &amp;quot;co&#039;o&amp;quot; can take a sumti-tail (the sumti without the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; or other descriptor), the original translated as &amp;quot;Bye, O methodish purple-lojbanic-one&amp;quot; (similarly &amp;quot;co&#039;o ractu&amp;quot; would be &amp;quot;Bye, rabbit&amp;quot;). The revised splits off the second part into a parenthetical observative. An alternative would be to &amp;quot;co&#039;o .i tai le zirjbo vau&amp;quot;, meaning &amp;quot;Bye. By-method-of the purple-lojbanic-one.&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;vau&amp;quot; is needed to end a sentence with just a sumti (a machine grammar peculiarity).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael made another attempt, based on the Anglicism &amp;quot;I remain yours&amp;quot;, but it didn&#039;t quite come out the way he intended. The final text is after discussion with him about what he wanted.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Note that &#039;purple Lojban&#039; is &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - a cultural metaphor dependent on knowing the English phrase &amp;quot;purple prose&amp;quot;; Michael continues using this as a standing &#039;inside joke&#039; between us, but we don&#039;t encourage others to do so.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ca&#039;o ca&#039;o le di&#039;e du lo zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ti&#039;u ti cerni li&#039;u tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ni&#039;o ca&#039;o di&#039;e cu me la&#039;e zoi zy haiku zy me&#039;e lu ca le puzi cerni li&#039;u .itu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: (New paragraph) Incidentally, the following is the-referent-of &amp;quot;haiku&amp;quot;, with name &amp;quot;At-the-time-of the past-by- just-a-bit morning&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ca&#039;o ca&#039;o&amp;quot; is fine, but I thought breaking off into a new paragraph would give the same feel as one of the &amp;quot;ca&#039;o&amp;quot;s.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;du&amp;quot;: see previous comments about &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;me ...&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti&#039;u&amp;quot;, again means &amp;quot;dated&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;at-the-time-of&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;ti cerni&amp;quot; is a sentence meaning &amp;quot;This is a morning&amp;quot;. For &amp;quot;This morning&amp;quot; you really mean the just-passed morning: &amp;quot;le puzi cerni&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: fi le pa stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : fi le pa nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the one act of stepping.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Final: fi le pamoi stapa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: By means of the first-stepper.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Originally, &amp;quot;By means of the one stepper&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[Michael didn&#039;t like either Nora&#039;s version, or Bob&#039;s first attempt listed afterwards (he hasn&#039;t seen the second or thirdattempts until this printing). His intent was to emphasize that it was the FIRST step out of bed. The modified versionsays what he intended, but is not perfect haiku, which has a syllable count of 5/7/5.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ra&#039;i ckana .oi mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : ra&#039;i le ckana .oi fa mi pu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: from source of the bed (annoyance), by me was&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A modal (&amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;) may either be used as a sumti tag (as I assume you intended) or as an inflection for the selbri. To make &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; a sumti tag, you need a descriptor on the selbri &amp;quot;ckana&amp;quot; (otherwise it will be taken as the sentence selbri, on which &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot; is a descriptor).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;fa&amp;quot;: Since you used &amp;quot;fi&amp;quot; previously to get at the third place of &amp;quot;catra&amp;quot;, the next non-sumti-tagged item will be assumed to be the fourth place; since you want the first, you will have to tag it again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Rev : catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Tran: killed a cockroach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Of course, all these changes kill the haiku form. Bob has suggested the following alternatives:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi poi sa&#039;akla&lt;br /&gt;
(The me who step-goes)&lt;br /&gt;
fi le ckana ku&#039;o .oi&lt;br /&gt;
(from the bed, (annoyance))&lt;br /&gt;
catra lo jalra&lt;br /&gt;
(kills a cockroach.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[As mentioned above, this doesn&#039;t say what Michael wanted to say, so Bob tried again. Two alternatives are the result,depending on whether you want to complain about the bed (too hard, too soft, too inviting) or being a killer. Note thatto properly complain about getting out of bed, the &amp;quot;.oi&amp;quot; must be placed after the &amp;quot;ra&#039;i&amp;quot;. Thus the English translationsof the earlier attempts are only approximates.]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .oi .i&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed (Complaint!). And&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamoi nunstapa&lt;br /&gt;
(Observative!) First act-of-stepping&lt;br /&gt;
ra&#039;i le ckana .i .oi&lt;br /&gt;
out-of the bed. And (Complaint!)&lt;br /&gt;
mi jalra catra&lt;br /&gt;
I am a cockroach killer.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: (End of block text)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Orig: ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Rev : .i ke&#039;u fe&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Tran: Again, ending.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== 3 limericks ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (As submitted - not good Lojban) - 10 Feb 1990&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
            *la    .uorf. .e la sapir. pu pensi&lt;br /&gt;
            ke lo&#039;i rembangu lei mensi&lt;br /&gt;
             cu simsa leka lanzu&lt;br /&gt;
             .eka pamei nalbanzu&lt;br /&gt;
            .i ku&#039;i ta sidbo ca    gentsi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. (Final form - with approved corrections)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
la .uorf. .e la    saPIR. pu pensi    Whorf and Sapir    wondered about&lt;br /&gt;
lenu loi rembangu lei mensi    human languages, sisters&lt;br /&gt;
    cu simsa leka lanzu           being similar, in relatedness&lt;br /&gt;
    gi&#039;e pamei nalbanzu           and in singular insufficiency.&lt;br /&gt;
.i ku&#039;i    leva sidbo ca genytsi    But this nearby    idea is    now a knot-seed.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
2&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
loi ve cusku cu    mo loi se cusku    The means-of-expression    has-what-&lt;br /&gt;
                relation-to the    expressibly&lt;br /&gt;
cumda&#039;i     .i mi danfu lu    le sisku   possible-objects.  I    answer &amp;quot;The seeker&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nitcu pa    jaspu        needs one passport&lt;br /&gt;
    .uu     .i ku&#039;i na vasru    (Alas!).  But not-a-container,&lt;br /&gt;
fa ri rixiCI pe&#039;i li&#039;u        it is, of him (I think).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
3&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
sei lu leka sarcu vau li&#039;u cmene ni&#039;o    (&amp;quot;The Necessity&amp;quot; names.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lo cizra zasmunje lo&#039;e skami    A strange temporary-universe, the&lt;br /&gt;
                (typical) computer&lt;br /&gt;
cu nenri  .i RA    mi se prami    inside is.  It (the universe), I love.&lt;br /&gt;
    .i ku&#039;i le pratci           But the producer-tool&lt;br /&gt;
    cu nu sisti    kei batci       is a    cessation-biter.&lt;br /&gt;
le nunmenxru .uu TA&#039;i loi glaslami of the mind-returning (Alas!) like&lt;br /&gt;
                hot-acid.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Free Verse&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the first example, I am assuming most readers don&#039;t know Latin, I&#039;m including his English translation. Note thatthe Latin original has two lines, but that it takes 3 sentences in both English and Lojban to translate it:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
seide&#039;e    se sanga bimumoi ni&#039;o        Carmen LXXXV   Song #85    (The following is Song 85th)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 prami joi xebni fa mi            odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I&lt;br /&gt;
genai caca jimpe la&#039;ede&#039;u        Nescio,      don&#039;t    understand it,&lt;br /&gt;
gi ru&#039;i    lifri cai je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously experience(!)-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku ri         excrucior.    -am-anguished-by such a    state.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note:  If    brevity    was desired without significantly changing the meaning,    the last Lojban    sentence could be&lt;br /&gt;
shortened:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o prami joi xebni fa    mi        odi et amo     I love-and-hate.&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ki&#039;a vau    li&#039;u           quare id facium, &amp;quot;What&#039;s that?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
do nu&#039;o    cusku  .i mi     fortasse requiris. /      you may say.    I,&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u jimpe          Nescio,        this state, don&#039;t understand,&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e ru&#039;i lifri    je     sed fieri sentio et but continuously-experience-and-&lt;br /&gt;
dunku             excrucior.    -am-anguished-by (it).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s original had &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;je&amp;quot; is a logical connective, while &amp;quot;joi&amp;quot; is a mixture-connective.The logical connective can expands out into logically equivalent sentences; these mean, of course: &amp;quot;I love&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Ihate&amp;quot;. The paradox causing the confusion is probably the poet&#039;s mixed emotion of love and hate, but this must beinferred from context, since the Latin is no less ambiguous than the English. Athelstan reads the Latin differently than Michael and suggests (not being too sure himself without more research) that the first line be interpreted as &amp;quot;I love-and-hate. &#039;Why do you do this?&#039;, you might ask&amp;quot;. This reading would require changing &amp;quot;cusku&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;dafcpe&amp;quot; (answer-request) in line 3, and the question on the 2nd line becomes &amp;quot;.i lu go&#039;i mu&#039;i ma li&#039;u&amp;quot;, which translates as &amp;quot;This-last,with what motive?&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the next few, we&#039;ll give interlinear literal translations, and then, as appropriate, Michael&#039;s colloquial Englishtranslation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e lojbo pemci gi&#039;e se cmene&lt;br /&gt;
The following is a Lojbanic-poem, and is named&lt;br /&gt;
      lu le    firgai pu&#039;u se vimcu vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;The face-cover (mask) [type-of] process of being removed&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      [Note    that no    &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; causes the    abstraction to be absorbed into    a big tanru.]&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
      fe zo    pei ca rapcpedu    cai&lt;br /&gt;
      Request &amp;quot;How do you feel about?&amp;quot;, repeatedly-request (!)&lt;br /&gt;
      fa mi    .ei ne tai do pe pu fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
      I (Obligation!), in the manner that you, who were past [did],    of me.&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i loi so&#039;iplo senta&lt;br /&gt;
      in-the-manner/form-of    (Figurative):[many-folded layers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .i mi    vimcu ro lei firgai levi&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the face-covers from the-here&lt;br /&gt;
      sluni    po&#039;u lonu djica    .ice&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
      onion, the state-of-desiring.     And then, sequentially,&lt;br /&gt;
      ju&#039;ido&#039;u rixire mujytisybanro    po&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
      (Attention, you!) it (the onion) universe-fillingly grows.]:(End figurative)&lt;br /&gt;
      [&amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;    was probably sufficient, since he&#039;s said that the onion    is the desiring-state.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      .iku&#039;i pu najenai ca ku&lt;br /&gt;
      But, neither-before-nor-presently,&lt;br /&gt;
      mi djuno leri    cumyme&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
      do I know its    (the onion&#039;s) possible-name(s)&lt;br /&gt;
      .e lejei ri se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
      and  the-truth-of its    (still the onion/desiring-state) being described&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      fo po&#039;i lonu kansa kazmaksi&lt;br /&gt;
      as (figuratively):[an-event-of together-magnetism&lt;br /&gt;
      .a lo    nalsti nu fasnu    cictcima&lt;br /&gt;
      or an    unceasing event    of being occurring wild-weather&lt;br /&gt;
      [The &amp;quot;fasnu&amp;quot; seems redundant here.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      po&#039;a .a sa&#039;u pa drata    nu ka bebna&lt;br /&gt;
      ]:(end figurative), or (simply) one other [=another] event of    foolishness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
      The &amp;quot;nu ka&amp;quot; seems malglico - an attempt to match an English phrasing.    &amp;quot;nu bebna&amp;quot; is and event    of something&lt;br /&gt;
      being    a fool,    i.e. an    event of foolishness. &amp;quot;ka bebna&amp;quot; is a property/quality of foolishness.    &amp;quot;nu ka bebna&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
      thus has the place structure &amp;quot;x1 is an event of (x1a being a property    of (x1b    being a    fool), which translates&lt;br /&gt;
      approximately    the same way into English but implies some meaningless sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael&#039;s colloquial English translation:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A Lojban poem entitled &amp;quot;The Unmasking&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;What    is it you feel?&amp;quot; -- now    I must keep asking&lt;br /&gt;
        myself, as you once    did to me,&lt;br /&gt;
        like laminations.&lt;br /&gt;
      I remove all the masks from this&lt;br /&gt;
        onion of a desire.    Then&lt;br /&gt;
        Lo!    it grows-to-fill-the-world...&lt;br /&gt;
      But still not&lt;br /&gt;
        do I know what to call it,&lt;br /&gt;
        nor    whether    it&#039;s described&lt;br /&gt;
      by &#039;a    state of together-magnetism&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        or &#039;an unending storm&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
        -- or simply one more folly.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Note the fairly complex tense-negation in the 3rd stanza. This appears correct, but is exactly the type ofconstruct that we are pondering in our open-issue discussions of tense and negation. I may even find a way to use this stanza as an example in the text.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is why we want people to try to use the language, before its nailed into unchanging form. If people don&#039;t try complicated expression, we don&#039;t have examples of all the ways people might try to use the grammar we&#039;ve defined, thus risking an error that will later come back to haunt us. We can only accomplish so much by thought-experiments, and the relatively small number of texts and examples that the few of us making decisions can generate ourselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second poem:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is called    &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
              loika zvati vau li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              Being-at-nesses (Presences)&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
              ti&#039;e lonu    zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              (I hear) states of observing&lt;br /&gt;
              be lemu&#039;e    ke lunra&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) achievement of lunar&lt;br /&gt;
              ka cuklymulno cu xamgu&lt;br /&gt;
              round-completeness (full-moon-ness) is good.&lt;br /&gt;
              .iku&#039;i mi    drata salci&lt;br /&gt;
              But I otherly-celebrate&lt;br /&gt;
              lemu&#039;e ke    lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) lunar superlative-thinness    (new-moon-ness)&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi ckini ri leka manku&lt;br /&gt;
              I    am related to it (the achievement) in the (specific) properties    of darkness,&lt;br /&gt;
              .e lo mipri nu zasti .e .a&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
              and in secret states of existing,    and (I wish!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              lenu ka vlipa po&#039;u piro lo&lt;br /&gt;
              the (specific) properties    of powerfulness, all of    a&lt;br /&gt;
              te pencu be le munje se rinka&lt;br /&gt;
              means of touching    the world-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i ca lemu&#039;e ke lunra ka caircinla&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
              At the (specific)    achievement of lunar superlative-thinness&lt;br /&gt;
              ku le lunra cukla    cu binxo&lt;br /&gt;
              ,    the lunar disk becomes&lt;br /&gt;
              leri pamei zgana&lt;br /&gt;
              its (the disk&#039;s) single observer.&lt;br /&gt;
              .i mi go&#039;i gi&#039;e ku&#039;i roroi&lt;br /&gt;
              I    too (become the    disk&#039;s single observer (sic), but always&lt;br /&gt;
              pubi&#039;ica zgana lemi ka nomei ji&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
              from-earlier-until-now an    observer of my zerosome-ness, also.&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael didn&#039;t provide a colloquial translation - this poem is sufficiently Lojbanic that such a translation would miss some things. I noted that in a few places, Michael&#039;s interlinear translation did not always match what he wrote,so the above interlinear is my modification of his.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I like this poem; the images to me are powerful. The lengthy set of comments that follow have nothing to do with its quality, which I think is outstanding. I hate picking apart something this good, lest I trivialize it, but teaching is right now the important thing, and Michael will no doubt make the poem better still as a result, for the enjoyment of future Lojbanists. But note that my comments, though occasionally picky, are of a different nature than, for example,Nora&#039;s comments on Michael&#039;s self-description. Now we are not concerned with Michael writing a grammatical Lojban sentence, but how he can best convey the subtleties of his ideas. In short we are now talking about the art of Lojban expression.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As noted previously, the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are unneeded. Michael probably included them based on the textbook lessons written before we had changed the rule (Feb 89) and no longer require &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; after the abstractor clause to indicate long-scope abstraction, which is now the default. Instead, if he had wanted short-scope abstraction, he would put a &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; into indicate the termination. The &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s are not harmful; the parser would merely assume a matching elided &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; at theend of the selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
* I have emphasized a little bit of inconsistency in his choices of &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; vs. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; by highlighting the difference in translation. &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; implies that the speaker has (a) specific one(s) in mind. &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; makes a statement about at least one non-specific representative of the described type. Thus, I would expect that the descriptors on the three properties by which Michael claims to be akin to the disk would either all be &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; (if he has specific properties in mind, which I suspect), or they should all be &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot; (if any old property of the type described will do). Other places in the text could stand re-examination of his choice of descriptor to further improve his clarity.&lt;br /&gt;
* As another example of a possibly inadequate descriptor choice, I think the two &#039;achievements&#039; of new-moon-ness and full-moon-ness should be described with &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;; this not only means that he doesn&#039;t have specific new moon and full moon achievements in mind (unlikely for an abstraction), but it heightens the sense of abstraction by referring to those achievements as being of a mass of lunar achievements, presumably most or all alike in possessing the properties to which Michael refers.&lt;br /&gt;
* Also relating to the properties of kinship: if they are all properties, they probably all should use the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot;abstractor. These would translate in a decidedly non-English manner, which may be why Michael made what I think are errors. Thus &amp;quot;leka mipri zasti&amp;quot; (the quality of secret existence) or &amp;quot;le mipri ka zasti&amp;quot; (the secret essence [quality of existence]). &amp;quot;leka vlipa&amp;quot; (the powerfulness. The latter would then better be qualified (I think) as &amp;quot;leka vlipa poipiromei curmi lonu pencu le munje se rinka&amp;quot; (the powerfulness that wholly-is-a-permitter of touching the universe-cause.&lt;br /&gt;
* Is Michael akin to the moon, or to its achievements, in those properties of kinship. What he says is that he isakin to the achievements. If he means to be akin to the moon, he needs to move the moon out of a tanru relationship sohe can refer to it anaphorically with &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot;. The best way I see to do this is (assuming use of &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot; as mentioned above:&amp;quot;... salci loimu&#039;e le lunra cu caircinla .i mi ckini ri ...&amp;quot;. This picks up &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
* That the rephrasing I just proposed would work suggests to me that the &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; is not needed on &amp;quot;cuklymulno&amp;quot; or&amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;. An achievement is itself an abstract state. You don&#039;t achieve a property, but rather a state characterized by the property.&lt;br /&gt;
* I would have chosen &amp;quot;dukti&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;drata&amp;quot; as a modifier of &amp;quot;salci&amp;quot;, thus clarifying that he is contrasting with a celebration of the &#039;opposite state&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
* The use of &amp;quot;mi go&#039;i&amp;quot; confuses; I think Michael is relying on a poetic sense that tells an English reader what is meant here by &amp;quot;me too&amp;quot;. As he has it written, &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; captures the bridi based on &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot;, and the &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; replaces the first sumti of that bridi. The x2 place remains unchanged - the Thus, instead of the moon becoming its own observer,the poet now is. They can&#039;t both alone be observers. The solution here is tricky, and depends on what exactly he means. The use of &amp;quot;mi&#039;u&amp;quot; (UI - discursively indicates a parallel) marking the sentence might help. Changing the wording of the x2 place of &amp;quot;binxo&amp;quot; might also play a role: saying that the moon becomes &amp;quot;lo pa sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a self-observer, of which there is exactly one in the set) or &amp;quot;lo pamei sevzi zgana&amp;quot; (a solitary self-observer). &amp;quot;sepli&amp;quot; might be used in either form in place of &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot;, if the intent is to convey the apartness of the observer, rather than the singularity. If the parallel he is trying to make allows for both he and the moon to be observing the same thing,though apart (from each other and/or from humanity) then &amp;quot;pamei&amp;quot; misleads.&lt;br /&gt;
* Astronomers would dislike Michael&#039;s expressions for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;new moon&amp;quot;. The moon doesn&#039;t significantly change shape either being completely-round or most-thin. Rather it is the observed moon (selzga lunra or, perhaps better, lunra selzga) , or possibly the lunar disk (lunrycukla or just leave it as a tanru) that changes shape. The latter might cause a problem with interpreting the later use of &amp;quot;lunra cukla&amp;quot; near the end of the poem: is it the lunardisk (the planar projection that we see) that becomes an observer, or the lunar orb (lunra bolci = lunryboi), or maybe just &amp;quot;le lunra&amp;quot; (the moon), since the self-observing moon would not see what we see from Earth. But we&#039;re dealing with poetry here, and the place structure of &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot; is that of a &#039;name predicate&#039; (see the discussion of culture words inthe response to jyjym. below)&lt;br /&gt;
* Incidentally, Michael may have chosen not to compress the lujvo for &amp;quot;full moon&amp;quot; for sound reasons, but &amp;quot;cukmu&#039;o&amp;quot;is a valid shortening. Also, the rafsi for comparatives and superlatives are oriented towards final position use, so I would prefer &amp;quot;cinlycai&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;caircinla&amp;quot;, all other things being equal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think I&#039;ll stop commenting on this one; these comments are getting too picky even by my rather perfectioniststandards. The next poem is decidedly weird, but I think that was Michael&#039;s intent - to stretch one&#039;s mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
di&#039;e se    cmene lu&lt;br /&gt;
The following is named &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
           mela saPIR. .uorf. li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
           Pertaining to Sapir-Whorf (Sapir-Whorf-ly)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
.i tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
[&lt;br /&gt;
           ko leido    se mipri le&lt;br /&gt;
           (Imperative you), your secrets, to the&lt;br /&gt;
           sutrai nalmorji ca dunda&lt;br /&gt;
           fastest non-rememberer, now give!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i lo narju joi rijno&lt;br /&gt;
           Orange-and-silver&lt;br /&gt;
           fasnu ba    snuji ro lei drata&lt;br /&gt;
           events will be sandwiches, filled by all    of the other things.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
           .i zo&#039;e tagji logji&lt;br /&gt;
           Something unspecified is    snugly logical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will leave this one for your imagination. I can&#039;t suggest any improvements. My mind is still trying to grasp&amp;quot;orange-and-blue events&amp;quot;, and figure out how they can be sandwiches.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Due to the length of this issue, I&#039;m going to try to keep my comments short in response to the following. Arthur Brown is a mathematician and has followed the Loglan Project fairly closely since it was made public in 1960. His comments are in response to the Mathematics Intelligencer essay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== from Arthur Brown ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are some things about translation. In my opinion, a thorough knowledge of the jargon used in the target language (in my case English) is essential. I remember a case in which the Office of Naval Intelligence used a broke-down Russian emigr lawyer to translate some technical documents: the poor chap used a &amp;quot;wide-striped catcher&amp;quot; instead of a &amp;quot;broad-band receiver&amp;quot;. This was good Russian, but not good English, because the jargon was missing. (In fact, the Russian authors intended the English jargon, because a broad-band receiver was an Anglo- American technical development, I think.) The Chinese might use a &amp;quot;wide one-long-piece ribbon electric-listen thingamajig&amp;quot;, for all I know. One would have to settle on Lojban terms for the thing-in-itself, and let the translators into target languages cope with the jargon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A lot of mathematics is repetition, of stereotyped language. But some of it isn&#039;t. Occasionally, and I think regrettably, the authors break loose and become picturesque; this outbreak poses a real problem for the translator. What do you do when there isn&#039;t any jargon in the target language, or even worse, when there is jargon but it means something else (e.g. Khrushchev&#039;s &amp;quot;We will bury you&amp;quot;, which is good Russian for &amp;quot;we will outlast you&amp;quot;, but in English means the annihilation of cities). This will be a problem for Lojban as a single intermediate language; overcomable, obviously, but a problem.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I suggest that, for Lojban generally, you get hold of a copy of William Empson&#039;s Seven Types of Ambiguity, published some 40 or 50 years ago. Empson was a disciple of I. A. Richards and C. K. Ogden; the book is about the richness that a language gets from compression, where the reader is uncertain about which meaning the author in- tended, and so settles for all the meanings possible. Loj- ban, if I understand it, intends to be unambiguous; if Sapir-Whorf takes ambiguity into account, as relating to real cultural languages, then I&#039;m not sure that Lojban will give a complete test. But that doesn&#039;t relate to science; so the broader aims of Lojban should not be allowed to interfere with its use as Intermath.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is there any hope of getting the National Science Foundation behind Lojban?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds to the last question: As described in the news section, we are currently seeking to establish academic credibility before tackling the NSF. People have told us that we need 1) to have been published in a refereed journal [not yet in the works] 2) to be willing to wait several months for decision and funding [we live from month to month, hoping that I don&#039;t have to go back to work too soon] 3) to have a competitive proposal when most NSF proposals are written with the help of professional consultants [I have proposal writing experience, but I&#039;m not that good] and 4) to live down Jim Brown&#039;s actions of the late 70&#039;s when he accused key individuals at NSF of improprieties in handling his proposals. Bureaucracies have long memories, and Jim Brown leveled serious charges.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== from jyjym. ===&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ve been working on an outline, a very rough one, of the Lojban words on the 8/9/88 baselined gismu list. I think I&#039;m going to try to learn Lojban, and the outline gives me a constructive way to learn some gismu. A completed outline should be useful in various ways.&lt;br /&gt;
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This effort, combined with learning more about Lojban in general, has led me to an awareness of something unfortunate. The gismu corresponding to particular cul- tures/nations/languages/religions, from &amp;quot;African&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;Urdi,&amp;quot; have to go. I mean that those gismu are imposters; they are cmene in &amp;quot;gismu-clothing&amp;quot; and they must be abolished. They are nothing other than a &amp;quot;Most Favored Cultured List&amp;quot; (MFCL). This does not apply to &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; It does apply to &amp;quot;lojbo&amp;quot;, but that can be fixed.&lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll list a few things, in no special order, to show what drove me to this conclusion about the MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban is all grown up now and stands on its own. All other languages, including the target languages, are now foreigners. If it fails to treat all foreigners equally, it is biased.&lt;br /&gt;
#  The inclusion of the MFCL was justified by pointing out the vast numbers of people covered by those labels. No other gismu are judged in that way. For example, the inclusion of &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was not justified by citing the extent of the infestation.&lt;br /&gt;
# The language was made to have ample grammatical tools for borrowing names from other languages. It is irrational for the makers of the language to ignore the rules of what they have themselves created, and to write borrowings directly into the gismu list, to take up fifty extremely valuable spaces.&lt;br /&gt;
# The gismu are words which speakers are forced to use, unlike cmene and tanru which are a matter of personal preference. Who are you to decide that a speaker must acknowledge certain groups of ordinary people as basic concepts, and call them by the words you deem fitting?&lt;br /&gt;
# Practical difficulties may arise. For example, Tao is officially proscribed in China. Some Chinese bureaucrat may see a description of Lojban, note that it includes Tao as a basic concept, and stamp it &amp;quot;counterrevolutionary.&amp;quot; That&#039;s the end of Lojban for a billion people. Easy come, easy go. But of course no one could even imagine that happening to a culturally neutral language.&lt;br /&gt;
# The MFCL words convey no meaning in the way that gismu have to. gismu convey a meaning by excluding other possibilities. For example, (dog) is (not cat), and (sorrow) is (not bliss). But is it correct that (American) is (not African)? Words which do not exclude each other, such as (clock) and (timepiece) are synonyms. The MFCL words are synonyms, if they are gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
# Increased knowledge makes it easier to select a word if that word corresponds to a concept. For example, if we gradually learn that X has something to do with an emotion, whispers, a crystalline mineral, and a carving on wood in the shape of a bodily organ, we may begin to suspect that X is &amp;quot;love.&amp;quot; Given more information we will know for sure. (Actually, if the carving is in the shape of a bodily organ, it MUST be love.) But which MFCL word applies to a Toyota built in Tennessee? If more information is needed to decide whether this car is &amp;quot;America-concept&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Japan- concept,&amp;quot; I will add that it is owned by the Reverend Dr. Smith. He is a resident of Berlin. His pet name for it is &amp;quot;Romulus.&amp;quot; More and more specific information only leads to greater and greater doubt about which MFCL word is appropriate.&lt;br /&gt;
# That&#039;s enough.&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh yes, about lojbo--why not just define it to mean the name of the language. Let future Lojban speakers choose their own names for their culture, nation, etc. Those names are likely to be metaphors anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: jyjym. is absolutely correct in that the MFCL words are &#039;cmene in gismu-clothing&#039;. I&#039;ll go further and say that &amp;quot;mekso&amp;quot; also fits this, and so to a small number of other words like &amp;quot;lunra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;terdi&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;solri&amp;quot;. You can identify all of these words by their artificial- sounding place structure &amp;quot;x1 pertains to ... in property/aspect/action x2&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not surprisingly, this is also the place structure used when you turn a cmene written as a sumti into a brivla by using the cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot;. Thus &amp;quot;me la iunaitedsteits.&amp;quot; has the grammar of a brivla, with the place structure x1 pertains to the United States in property/aspect/action x2. The function of turning a name into a predicate is vital to language. That is the only way you could say &amp;quot;This is a Toyota car&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why do we have them, if they are names? Because they are much used in practical everyday speech by people. Not directly as gismu, but in tanru and lujvo. Even if a Toyota is built in Tennessee, most people will identify it with the tanru Japanese-car. The answer to your last question (8) is that people will use whatever culture label they wish to, to identify that feature, trait or stereotype that they are attributing to the car, person, item, or concept.&lt;br /&gt;
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If this sounds like catering to prejudice, it may indeed be. But on the Eaton list of concepts, the name for &#039;one&#039;s own culture/nation&#039; is on the first page of the frequency list, and the concept of &#039;specific other culture/nation besides one&#039;s own&#039;, a combination of all the other culture names put together, isn&#039;t far behind (the specific list of &#039;other cultures talked about&#039; is going to vary in each country/culture).&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lojban, these words will be used even more frequently in tanru and lujvo than in the natural languages. The most obvious uses are for concepts tied to nationality or culture such as &#039;American dollar&#039;, as opposed to &#039;Canadian dollar&#039;, and &#039;Japanese yen&#039;, &#039;English system of measures&#039;, and a large number of religious concepts that inherently include the religion in the concept. For example, &#039;pertaining to the Bible&#039; (as an adjective - &#039;biblical&#039;) would be &amp;quot;Christian-sacred-book&amp;quot; (as opposed to the Torah, which is the &amp;quot;Jewish-sacred-book&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a second type of word that uses culture words, which we in English use all of the time without realizing what we are doing. These are those words that have a hidden etymology that is a name - often a place name. While we would be unlikely to use these particular tanru in Lojban, &amp;quot;emerald&amp;quot; derives from &amp;quot;esmeralda&amp;quot;, a word for East, and &amp;quot;turquoise&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;Turkey&amp;quot;. When we orient ourselves in a new situation, we hearken back to the time when people oriented themselves in new places by facing the sunrise (the Orient).&lt;br /&gt;
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Apparently, all natural languages build metaphors from names. Lojban is different than natural languages in providing short, regular, combining forms for those believed to be likely to generate often-used words. Other names will have to be Lojbanized into le&#039;avla, and then made to combine using a non-abbreviated combining form (?toionta + karce = toiontykarce)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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In point 6, jyjym. has made a distinction between cmene and gismu, saying that &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot;. From modern science, we believe this the case, but there are cultures that might believe in cat/dog half-breeds. To them, the statement &amp;quot;dog&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;not cat&amp;quot; is not obvious. To use an ex- ample, we saw just above, we have gismu for &#039;love&#039; and also for &#039;hate&#039;, but these abstract concepts, though considered opposites, do not exclude each other - else we would never hear of a &#039;love/hate relationship&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The assumption in Lojban is that all words are &#039;names&#039; for concepts. A selbri (of which gismu are only a part) is a name for a concept expressed as a relationship. A cmene is a name for a concept expressed as a substantive label. The cmavo &amp;quot;me&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;la&amp;quot; exist to blur the lines between these two categories so that selbri can be turned into cmene and cmene into selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a common misconception, which jyjym. appears to share (#4), and that is the concept that gismu are some set of &#039;basic concepts&#039;. It is precisely to avoid this misconception that we started using the Lojban word gismu instead of &amp;quot;primitive&amp;quot;. An idea that some words or concepts are &#039;basic&#039; and others are not IS ITSELF a bias - a bias toward certain concepts being more important than other ones. No two human beings, much less cultures, would be likely to agree exactly on the set of basic words. Why should &#039;cat&#039; and &#039;dog&#039; be gismu, and not &#039;lobster&#039; and &#039;amoeba&#039;?&lt;br /&gt;
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Surely, there are some concepts represented in the gismu that are universally considered basic, but they are a small minority. Some cultures divide the color spectrum into as few as two or three colors - Lojban uses about a dozen. Are those dozen &#039;basic&#039; in some absolute sense? No.&lt;br /&gt;
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The gismu set that we have is chosen on the basis of pragmatic usage. The notes in response to Robert Gorsch&#039;s class indicate that the evolution of our gismu list was anything other than ideal. For example, some words were considered by Jim Brown to indeed be biologically basic. When we redid the list, we required some justification for eliminating a word that Jim Brown had declared &#039;primitive&#039;. But the criteria for adding a word were that it either had to complete an incomplete set of concepts, or be useful ei- ther in terms of usage frequency, or in terms of usefulness in making tanru. The latter become more important as time has passed.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a category of Lojban concept represented neither by gismu, nor tanru, nor cmene - these are the le&#039;avla, or borrowings. le&#039;avla are predicate words, like gismu, but they are formed by Lojbanizing from a word in another language, like cmene. The rules for Lojbanizing are a bit more strict than for cmene, and harder to learn, so we de-emphasize using le&#039;avla, preferring to use a tanru instead when we can; in the long run, however, le&#039;avla may be the largest class of words in the language, covering most foods, animals, plants, and technical jargon words.&lt;br /&gt;
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The words that are gismu have an &#039;advantage&#039; over le&#039;avla in that they are shorter. More significantly, they are the only words considered for assignment of rafsi. All of the MFCL words have rafsi, which is not the case for all gismu. The reason, based exactly on jyjym.&#039;s logic, is that if we couldn&#039;t assign a rafsi to a name-gismu, we shouldn&#039;t have it as a gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is indeed an effective bias in including some cultures as gismu, and in not including others. The bias is that speakers in those cultures find an easier time talking about concepts peculiar to their culture as lujvo, while people of other cultures will use le&#039;avla.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim Brown had gismu for each of his 8 source language cultures, and Lojban. But he also added some odd additions like &#039;Italian&#039;, &#039;Roman&#039;, &#039;Amerind&#039;, and the distinction between &#039;American&#039; and &#039;British&#039; within &#039;English&#039; (but he left out &#039;Canadian&#039; and &#039;Australian&#039;, and all of the Span- ish-speaking countries of Latin America). His choices struck us as biased and arbitrary, and made worse by the assignment of 3 gismu to each of his MFCL.&lt;br /&gt;
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We chose to minimize bias by adding gismu to the point that we covered the 12 most common languages, the primary cultures (down to some minimum population) that spoke them, and the primary religions and continents so-associated, etc. It was at this level that we reached the conflict stage for rafsi, and were starting to have to choose between assigning them to MFCL words or to other gismu judged to be useful in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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(jyjym. is incorrect in a sense - gismu word space is not all that precious. We could have twice the number of gismu we have now. The number we stopped at was based on a consensus among the word-makers, strongly influenced by a historical tradition of 1000-1500 concepts in artificial languages, and indications from foreign language education research that this was a minimum vocabulary size for conversation. We also were starting to get an increasing number of conflicts over rafsi, and highest scoring word- form.)&lt;br /&gt;
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The 12 language level (our &#039;most favored languages&#039; - MFL) was historically significant - it included all of Jim Brown&#039;s languages plus our own set, and included all languages that we had considered using in making gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
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The number 12 had a non-arbitrary feel to it - we were using an fairly objective standard, rather than personal preference, to determine which were included. But it is, in a sense, arbitrary.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let me turn to jyjym.&#039;s individual points briefly:&lt;br /&gt;
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1. Lojban does not yet stand on its own. We are highly dependent on native speakers of the 12 MFL, which include nearly all languages used in more than one nation. The 50- 75% of the world that speaks one of the MFL&#039;s have the capability to make lujvo for the words they use often in their culture; this will enhance Lojban&#039;s acceptability.&lt;br /&gt;
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As I&#039;ve said a couple of times in this newsletter, Lojban IS biased. The point is to have biases minimized and identified. Our list has less of a Euro-American bias than Jim Brown&#039;s list. Note that all of our gismu can be said to be even more biased than the MFCL, in that they maximize learnability for people of only 6 languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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None of these presumed biases are believed significant for a Sapir-Whorf test, although such an assumption must be verified at some point by testing MFCL members as well as non-MFCL members.&lt;br /&gt;
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2. Actually, &amp;quot;civla&amp;quot; was included because of the ubiquity of lice and fleas, and properly covers all skin/hair parasites in its definition. Similarly, &amp;quot;jalra&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sfani&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bifce&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;toldi&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;manti&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;jukni&amp;quot; are ubiquitous - the gismu for these are intended to cover the rest of &amp;quot;bug-dom&amp;quot;. (Do we need one for &amp;quot;locust/grasshopper&amp;quot;?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All gismu were considered from the standpoint of whether they would be useful to people of all cultures. Some limited sets, like the MFCL, some animals and plants, grains, and some metals, are exceptions that were included for a combination of historical continuity, and because some of the 12 MFL cultures use the words metaphorically in their own languages.&lt;br /&gt;
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3. As stated, we have 3 ways to borrow names, into 3 different word categories. To use one set of rules is not to ignore the others. There is nothing &#039;more basic&#039; about one set of rules as compared with another.&lt;br /&gt;
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4. I don&#039;t understand this claim. You can use, or not use gismu, as you choose. There is nothing forced. I&#039;ll admit that if you use LogFlash, you would have to edit out some words to not be &#039;forced&#039; to learn them, but you are not required to use them. And what makes cmene and tanru more a matter of personal preference? You can creatively make a different tanru if you don&#039;t like how one sounds, but it will mean something different. If you use a cmene as a label, which differs from someone else&#039;s label for the same thing, they may not recognize who or what you are talking to/about.&lt;br /&gt;
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Again, gismu are not &#039;basic concepts&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
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It occurs to me that people can choose to ignore the MFCL gismu if they choose, and use cmene or le&#039;avla if they prefer. I don&#039;t see any advantage to this, since it is extra work for no gain.&lt;br /&gt;
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5. If we were to include or exclude concepts from our list based on local politics, that would indeed be biased. I could say that ALL religions are proscribed in some countries. Does this mean that we should eliminate &amp;quot;lijda&amp;quot; from the gismu? Incidentally, to ban something, you have to label it.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are a million and one possible ways for people in a given culture to become offended by something in Lojban which differs from their own culture. For example, we have the gismu &amp;quot;gletu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ganxo&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;pinji&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;kalci&amp;quot; which repre- sent concepts taboo in our culture. The fact that Lojban by rule forbids taboos on any word could offend religious people.&lt;br /&gt;
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6. I&#039;ve dealt with this partially above. It sounds like jyjym. is claiming that no gismu overlap in meaning except the MFCL, and that words that do overlap are synonyms. Neither of these is true. For example, &amp;quot;nanmu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;prenu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bersa&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;bruna&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;patfu&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;remna&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;panzi&amp;quot; all overlap in a set that includes all fathers who aren&#039;t the only child of their parents.&lt;br /&gt;
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7. I&#039;m lost on interpreting this one. The exact mapping of associations to words is an individual, or at least a cultural thing. I suspect that there are some cultures that, given the list of clue concepts, could decide that jyjym. is referring to lust or worship, or both. All in all, this is a valuable discussion. We get more questions about the culture words than any other gismu, usually asking why they were included, or complaining about having to memorize them. There is a &#039;bottom line&#039; - if no one uses a gismu, or any other word, it will eventually fall out of the language. I&#039;m betting that while most Americans will have little call for using &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, they&#039;ll have trouble avoiding the use of &amp;quot;merko&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;glico&amp;quot;. To eliminate all of the MFCL that one doesn&#039;t personally use would be &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; - oops, I just used one. Perhaps if you have memorized &amp;quot;xurdo&amp;quot;, you&#039;ll find a use for it.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== from Eric Williams ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Question # 1 - Why are words for &#039;large&#039; and &#039;small&#039; included in Lojban? When a person says &amp;quot;ta cu barda&amp;quot;, he or she has only expressed something very vague, since &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; is not &#039;larger than&#039; something. It seems that the proper way to express this concept is &#039;more&#039; (or &#039;less&#039;) than an- other in height, weight, surface area, or whatever. Bob&#039;s Response: If you want to express a comparison, you indeed should use &amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;; they are comparative by nature and it shows in the place structure. &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; are the same concept without an inherent comparative. As you&#039;ve noted, these provide less information than the comparatives - exactly one sumti place&#039;s worth. Based on English usage, there are cases where a comparative could be misleading - a large negative number is less than a small negative number.&lt;br /&gt;
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Quite often, we don&#039;t know what the basis of comparison is. What is a &#039;big house&#039; bigger than - possibly nothing in particular - and each person&#039;s standard of comparison might be different, so we can&#039;t use &amp;quot;zu&#039;i&amp;quot;, the &#039;unspecified typical&#039; sumti place filler, unless we also add an observer place. Since some comparatives are ob- server independent, you can&#039;t put the observer place in the basic place structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In general, we&#039;ve omitted comparatives from place structures because there is almost always a use where comparatives cause problems. In fact, we&#039;ve followed a &#039;less is better&#039; philosophy of place structure determination for all of the gismu. It is easy to &#039;add&#039; an extra place using a sumti tcita &#039;case tag&#039;; it is impossible to remove a place. So we try to keep out the non-mandatory ones. This has the side advantage of making the place structures easier to learn, because there is less to learn.&lt;br /&gt;
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(There IS a proposal to amend the place structure of &amp;quot;barda&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;cmalu&amp;quot; to add &amp;quot;as compared to standard x3. This is different from a true comparative. Comments are welcome.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Question #2 - Why have Lojban pronouns been assigned both singular and plural meanings? (If the S-W Hypothesis is correct, one might argue that Lojban would create a cultural bias towards a pluralism - a society such as the one in Ayn Rand&#039;s Anthem, which had done away with the word &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; and hence, with man&#039;s ego.) Is there a method for stating &amp;quot;me, to the exclusion of all others&amp;quot;? If so, please let me know.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s response - Predicate logic ignores the difference between singular and plural, so Lojban, at its most basic level, also does. This might cause a S-W effect such as you&#039;ve described; that is why Lojban was created - so that such drastic differences in world view in a society can be clearly tied to grammatical constructs.&lt;br /&gt;
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When we say that Lojban is culturally neutral, we mean not that the language has no effects on the culture - that would be assuming that Sapir-Whorf is false, and minimizing just the types of effects we&#039;d be looking for. Rather, we try to eliminate the cultural biases of existing cultures of the world, the sources of natural language speakers that will eventually form the Lojban speaker base.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban achieves cultural neutrality by trying to minimize metaphysical assumptions, and the singular/plural distinction is one such assumption. Does there have to be such a distinction? If so, why not a 3- or 4- way distinction expressing singular, dual, trial, and multitudinal (there are languages with more than 2 number categories, though I don&#039;t know of any with exactly this set).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban tries to remove constraints. Therefore, you CAN express number, tense, and the various other optional grammatical features if it is important to the truth of your statement, which isn&#039;t that often. You have a couple of ways of expressing singular more clearly: &amp;quot;mipezi&amp;quot; (the right-here me, limits by location rather than number. It is only plural if there are several people by me, and you are off across the room). &amp;quot;mipoipamoi&amp;quot; is the ultimate singular - &amp;quot;I, the one some&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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You can make a whole bunch of other distinctions that you can&#039;t make in English, of course, but I&#039;ve no room for them here.&lt;br /&gt;
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[Eric also asked about the place structures of culture words, but his question was answered in the response tojyjym., so I&#039;ve not repeated the answer here.]&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Last Minute Request for Comment ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussing some of the topics in this issue, and in discussing negation, a question of bias arose. At present&amp;quot;zmadu&amp;quot; has 3 rafsi, including &amp;quot;mau&amp;quot; which also serves as a sumti tcita (lexeme BAI) for adding &amp;quot;more than ...&amp;quot;comparatives. The &#039;opposite&#039; word, &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; has no rafsi,partly because in English we seldom make comparatives in this direction, so few have built tanru from &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.&amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot; also has a sumti tcita, but it is not as clearly connected to the gismu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are no good available solutions based on &amp;quot;ckamu&amp;quot;.The possible rafsi permitted in any position for this word are &amp;quot;-cka-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-cau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-kau-&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;-ca&#039;u-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-ka&#039;u-&amp;quot;, andeach of these is in use by a reasonably important gismu, in terms of use in tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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We thus are proposing the first change in a gismu sincethe baseline was established 20 months ago, and setting the precedent by encouraging comment from all who have started learning the words (and others) before even a single word change. The proposed replacement is &amp;quot;mleca&amp;quot; with rafsi &amp;quot;-mec-&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-me&#039;a&amp;quot; and the latter becoming the sumti tcita.The issue will be decided at LogFest 90 after consideration of all comments. What do you think?&lt;br /&gt;
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co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
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		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_10_moi&amp;diff=124077</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 10 moi</title>
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		<updated>2020-08-13T00:50:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 10 - November-December 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as lalojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is separately published under the name le lojbo karni(LK). This issue was supposed to be produced in September, but the trip to Worldcon, our rapid growth, and time spenton legal work all have contributed to delays. This issue is now intended to be mailed with LK11, which will inciden-tally save us some postage costs. The added time also gave us a larger quantity of Lojban writings to choose from, andmore time to ensure that what we are printing is correct. We still intend to gain a month in publishing, but it will apparently not be until issue #13 that we will do so.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some 290 of you will receive this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli; we now have over 600 subscribers to le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
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As noted in LK11, we have now received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, and your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and most state income taxes, back-dated to our incorporation last year. We will notify all donors at the end of the year of the total deductible donations we have received from you. Our finances are still in bad condition: we hope that a few of you will remember us in your holiday budgets. We note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
There is no news section in this issue, since we are coming out with LK11. Our major content this issue is Lojban text(some 3200 words total), written by people other than Bob and Nora. The key Lojban text is Athelstan&#039;s translation of a short story named &amp;quot;The Open Window&amp;quot;, written by British author Saki. We want to encourage Lojbanists to seriously attempt to back-translate and read the Lojban on your own, and have printed it double-spaced, included some guidelines&lt;br /&gt;
on translating and reading, and also some word lists. You will have to deduce the meaning of tanru and lujvo on your own, though. We&#039;ve provided guidelines and word lists enough in past issues that most of you should be able to do this.&lt;br /&gt;
This issue also contains discussions of Lojban poetry forms by poet Michael Helsem and Athelstan, of various aspects of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and testing thereof, and some explanations of some cmavo that seem to be giving people trouble.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News Notes						      ---2&lt;br /&gt;
On Lojban Poetry&lt;br /&gt;
   &#039;Skaldic Poetry and Lojban&#039; by Athelstan		      ---3&lt;br /&gt;
   Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms		      ---4&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
   Guidelines for Understanding	Unfamiliar Lojban Text	      ---6&lt;br /&gt;
   A Palindrome	by Michael Helsem; A Lojban Aphorism by	Michael	Helsem	   ---7&lt;br /&gt;
   Self-Description by T. Peter	Park			      ---8&lt;br /&gt;
   A letter to Marcia Greenough	by T. Peter Park; Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter	Park   ---8&lt;br /&gt;
   From	Genesis	by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
   An Original Science Fiction Story by	Jamie Bechtel	      ---9&lt;br /&gt;
   A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific	American by T. Peter Park    ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   Roswell, New	Mexico,	1947 by	T. Peter Park		     ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   A Short Lesson in Office Politics by	T. Peter Park	     ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   A Syllogism by Lewis	Carroll, translated by Sylvia Rutiser---11&lt;br /&gt;
   The Open Window by Saki, translated by Athelstan	     ---12&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska (in order listed above)    ---16&lt;br /&gt;
   Retranslation of The	Open Window by Saki, as	translated by Athelstan	   ---25&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Greg Higley; from various people	on &#039;	---32&lt;br /&gt;
How Many Primitives Does Loglan	Need?, by Jeff Prothero	     ---35&lt;br /&gt;
Mini Grammar Lessons: On du; On	cu; On ke; On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu; On po&#039;e, po, pe, po&#039;u;&lt;br /&gt;
   On go&#039;i vs. ti vs. di&#039;u vs. la&#039;edi&#039;u			     ---37&lt;br /&gt;
On Sapir-Whorf&lt;br /&gt;
   LogFest Report by pc	and Athelstan			     ---40&lt;br /&gt;
   Discussion on Jim Brown&#039;s Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan	1 4th Edition&lt;br /&gt;
      from Bob &amp;amp; Athelstan&#039;s Unabridged	Review		     ---41&lt;br /&gt;
      from pc (John Parks-Clifford)			     ---44&lt;br /&gt;
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Mini-cmavo List	for use	in Translations			    insert&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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== News Notes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s been less than a week since LK11 went to the printer, but the Lojban world keeps moving. Bob did another radio interview on 11 December, with a British station: &#039;Atlantic 192&#039;. We&#039;ve received a copy of the San Francisco version of the Oldenburg article. It was somewhat truncated, so if we get to distribute the Washington Post version next issue, those who see versions in other papers may want to reread to see if they missed anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob now has a Usenet/Internet mailbox address, compliments of Eric Raymond, who has set up his Lojban network with about 60 names so far. Eric is a long distance call, and Bob won&#039;t be checking his mailbox very often, so Post Office  mail is more efficient. But computer files, Lojban text, and articles for LK and JL can be sent now tolojbab@snark.uu.net.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, Rick Harrison tells me that Alembic, listed in LK11 credits, is ceasing publication.&lt;br /&gt;
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== On Lojban Poetry ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have comments from two people on the subject of Lojban poetry. Athelstan writes primarily on one form of poetry with which he is familiar: skaldic poetry. Michael Helsem writes in response to the brief comments I made in LK10 in describing the article by Athelstan.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a question commonly asked of us, not really relevant to Lojban, which we can answer in connection with the following article. This is &#039;Does Athelstan have a last name?&#039;. The answer is both yes and no.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan&#039;s name comes from Old Norse; family names were not used for identification in that culture. Instead, surnames would be granted, generally by nobility, in recognition for some great or significant deed, somewhat after the manner of modern honorary degrees. In the absence of such an honor, different people with the same first name would be distinguished by their place of origin or trade, a practice that eventually led to our modern practice. Honorific surnames wouldn&#039;t be used in the same way as modern family names, but rather only in an appropriate context. Athelstan obviously has a place he was born, but he does not need this &#039;surname&#039; to distinguish him from others. How many other people do you know by the name of Athelstan?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But, in addition to a locative surname, Athelstan has been rewarded (by appropriate authorities familiar with the tradition) with two different honorific surnames for noteworthy deeds in unrelated fields (Athelstan is a person of diverse talents). The stories are long, and perhaps I can talk Athelstan into writing of them (in Lojban) for later issues; he tells these stories quite interestingly, in the old bardic tradition. But in any case, he uses them only in the appropriate context. The following article is one such place, since one of his honorific surnames stems from his demonstrated mastery of skaldic forms. (T. Peter Park uses the other honorific surname in his description of the New York Lojban meeting, printed in LK11.) &lt;br /&gt;
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=== Skaldic Poetry and Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Athelstan B‚rfoetskald&lt;br /&gt;
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English speakers may be unaware of the wealth of possible forms of poetry that exist in the world&#039;s literature. Most English poetry is dominated by a single form, end-rhyme, in which the final word of each line rhymes with one or more other lines; the exact lines in a stanza which are paired or grouped in rhyme differ according the specific form, giving us such end-rhyme forms as doggerel, limericks, and sonnets. End-rhyme is often elaborated by requiring particular matching stress patterns in each rhyming pair or group of lines. End-rhyme has proven less interesting for modern poets, who abandon rhyme, stress pattern, or both to achieve a density or abstractness of expression uncon strained by form.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are many other possible forms, including forms that ignore rhyme and which count only stressed syllables (Germanic long-line, the form of Beowulf, is an example). In languages that do not have stress as a distinguishing characteristic of tone, the syllable count in each line is important. Japanese haiku is probably the most well-known of these forms; it requires no rhyme or meter; instead it has exactly three lines with 17 syllables in a 5/7/5 pattern, with the added requirement that it demonstrate a particular &#039;balance&#039; in harmony/disharmony of subject, sound, and meter.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of poetry&#039;s many forms, English end-rhyme does not seem especially suited for Lojban. This is but a guess, based on the limited number of gismu that rhyme and the lujvo architecture that limits the variety of ideas that will end in matching sounds. Many other poetic forms may be more apropos to Lojban&#039;s sound and word structures. In this article, I shall concentrate on the Norse alliterative poetry of the skalds, and in particular the drottkvaet, or court metre.&lt;br /&gt;
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First some definitions:&lt;br /&gt;
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The common unit of skaldic poetry is the strophe, or stanza, which consists of four lines, or eight half-lines. Unlike much of English poetry, these lines are usually not grammatically intact sentences or phrases - sentence structure is independent of line structure. In fact, such poetry often has several independent &#039;sentence&#039; thoughts going at once, with the harmony of sound helping the listener piece the structures together.&lt;br /&gt;
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Each line consists of two half-lines. There is an odd half-line with exactly six syllables, three of which are accented. Each odd half-line is followed by an even half- line, also with exactly six syllables, three accented. Unlike English end-rhyme forms, all alliteration and rhyme takes place in the accented syllables, or beats. I will for this discussion use the most common stress pattern, trochaic. That is, each beat is followed by an unstressed syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Two syllables alliterate if their initial sounds are alike: the words &#039;fight&#039;, &#039;far&#039; and &#039;phantasm&#039; alliterate. Any two syllables that begin with vowels also alliterate. In each line of skaldic poetry, exactly two beats in the odd half-line and the first beat in the even half-line alliterate.&lt;br /&gt;
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A full rhyme is one that shares the same vowel and final consonant sounds in one syllable: &#039;rat&#039;/&#039;cat&#039;, &#039;rut&#039;/&#039;cut&#039; and &#039;rough&#039;/&#039;cuff&#039; are full rhymes. A half rhyme differs from a full rhyme in that the vowel sound must be different: &#039;rat&#039;/&#039;cut&#039;, &#039;rut&#039;/&#039;cat&#039; and &#039;rough&#039;/&#039;cough&#039; are half rhymes. In each line of skaldic poetry, a half rhyme appears in exactly two of the three beats in the odd half-line, including the third beat. In the even half- line, a full rhyme appears in exactly two beats, also including the third, but the pattern need not be the same as in the odd half-line.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an unfamiliar (and complicated) form to many, so I include here an English language example of a skaldic strophe. (It&#039;s not really supposed to have great meaning in it - this is only an example.) Please note that the last syllables of each half-line are unstressed and so neither rhyme nor alliterate. The alliterations appear in bold print, the full rhymes in italics, and the half rhymes are underlined. Vowel alliterations are marked with a bold period.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Sing with me a song of				   &lt;br /&gt;
     soaring birds and words that			   &lt;br /&gt;
  tell of hawks; The hall of				   &lt;br /&gt;
     heaven flows with prose of				   &lt;br /&gt;
  .owls	and .airborne furless				   &lt;br /&gt;
     .awful bats with hats on.				   &lt;br /&gt;
  Night	and day	are not	the				   &lt;br /&gt;
     nicest times for rhymes&#039; sound.			   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Strophes were informally composed and recited singly or in pairs, but more formal occasions demanded the long lay, or drapa form. This consists of twenty or more strophes, partitioned into three or more parts by a chorus of one, two or four lines which ended a strophe or stood alone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Skaldic poetry often used a figurative metaphor known as a kenning, whose canonical English form is &#039;x of the y&#039;. For example, &amp;quot;steed of the waves&amp;quot; is a kenning for &#039;ship&#039;, and &amp;quot;whales&#039; road&amp;quot; stands for &#039;ocean&#039;. In some drapas, kennings are all-pervasive and no thing is directly named.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that Lojban is well suited phonologically and grammatically to the use of skaldic form. Lojban gismu are trochaic in meter, and Lojban&#039;s penultimate word-stress system is conducive to the regular patterns required. The large number of independently elidable cmavo words allows one to alter the rhythm of the utterance to suit the form. Moreover, the morphology allows us to vary the length and form of a lujvo, allowing the poet to choose the word form that best suits the meter without changing the meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have the ability in Lojban to mark a word as figurative in its use, and so we may use kennings at will, but we also have the option of redefining the grammar for the poem to treat all two word metaphors as kennings, and may thus accommodate the all-kenning form as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I shall attempt such poetry in the near future as my schedule permits, but I put it forth to all aspiring Lojban poets to explore this and other alliterative poetry forms. In addition to formal skaldic poetry, there may be other patterns, more or less structured, that will project the full color of Lojban&#039;s expressive nature. A new language calls for new ideas, and for the reexamination of old ones.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms ===&lt;br /&gt;
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... Lojban poetry. I am eager to see Athelstan&#039;s proposal, being a skaldic aficionado myself (albeit non- Norskophone), but I have grave doubts already. (I do admire the grandeur of its absurdity -- akin to one of the projects to write quantitative verse in English!) Lojban is a non-inflected language with numerous non-elidable function words (at least in its grammatically correct form), whereas such rigorous modes of versification as Dr¢ttkvaett (or haiku for that matter) require either a language that is inherently terse (i.e. inflected), or else a polyvalent grammar like the anarchical tradition of En- glish poetry gives access to (--my English skaldic verse must seem totally twisted to anyone who doesn&#039;t know those conventions). (Or a tradition of broken utterance, which is haiku&#039;s, as any literal rendering will show.) Athelstan is absolutely correct in perceiving Lojban&#039;s consonantal richness as the salient poetic character. But that applies only to its core vocabulary. Include all the function words as they naturally occur, and Lojban has a greater resemblance to a pizzicato language like Hawaiian or Japanese, than to the surflike pounding of Germanic lines in Alliterative-Accentual. Another thing: it takes many near-synonyms to be able to say what you want and have it alliterate. I don&#039;t foresee this ever being true of Lojban unless it swamps its carefully-distinguishable word-hoard with a ton of redundant imports...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I imagine Lojban poetry will eventually create brand new forms out of its own vast uniqueness which is hardly perceptible yet to those who think in English (or other natural language) first. I&#039;ve got a few noodly intimations I&#039;m reluctant to pontificate upon before I can substantiate them with practical excellence, but I can say right now that the &amp;quot;abstract ideas of modern poetry&amp;quot; find a greatly expanded range in this language with few concrete noun- distinctions (names of birds, flowers, and feelings), but capable of phrases such as &amp;quot;mu&#039;e laxyzva&amp;quot; -- &amp;quot;The achievement of balance-presence&amp;quot; (which may mean just &amp;quot;poise&amp;quot;, or imply a whole world of Taoist philosophy). -- so naturally and yet so suggestively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess a lot of people still identify &amp;quot;poetry&amp;quot; with rhyme+meter, although almost no poets even attempt them anymore outside of popular music. For Lojban to be shoehorned into existing English poetic forms is not quite the contortionist feat that skaldic verse would be, but my earlier point still applies. In addition, Lojban has few natural rhymes, and hardly any &#039;good&#039; ones at all. &#039;Love&#039; (prami) rhymes only with &#039;computer&#039; (skami) and &#039;acid&#039; (slami), while &#039;desire&#039; (djica) rhymes with &#039;differ&#039; (frica) and -- too closely -- &#039;deceive&#039; (tcica), for example. Compare fire/desire or Schmerz/Herz et al... This is not as bad as Esperanto, which rhymes Vulva and Gunpowder; still, artificial languages seem uniformly unfortunate in this respect. More sophisticated devices, like slant-rhyme, assonance, and particularly the combination of an initial and a medial consonance (muzga zgana; lujvo jvinu), I suggest, are well worth trying in an irregular way. But, to use Pound&#039;s nomenclature, Lojban excels in aptness for meaning-subtlety (Logopoeia) rather than phonic luxuriance (Mekpoeia) or pictorial descriptiveness (Phanopoeia).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is an athletic language; it stretches your mind with challenging concept-divergences and novel connections. Making lujvo will probably be its first and most popular word game always; just as Crosswords exploit the hodgepodge of English megavocabulary, lujvo involve the very quiddity of Lojban. I predict that it will eventually become a much-used source of return-borrowings for many natural languages, somewhat as classical Greek has continued to provide new loans for scientific usage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One last thing. I think there might be a definite limerick potential. Anapests seem to come easier than iambs; and what rhymes exist, have a quality that reminds me of a triple rhyme in English -- as can be found in the dustier corners of a rhyming dictionary: mentor-centaur, gurgle-burgle, muscular-crepuscular. This is a Special Effect, like fireworks, not the constant recurrence of a mild harmony (like rhyme in Italian or Spanish)...&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
Athelstan responds with two notes:&lt;br /&gt;
# Germanic languages were not as terse as they are now, precisely because they were more highly inflected. Latin and Greek were very highly inflected, and they are anything but terse.&lt;br /&gt;
# There are usually several directions from which to approach a concept: function, appearance, resemblance, effects, etc. Many gismu are also expressible as conversions of other gismu. Combined with the further tool of kenning description, Lojban promises as rich and diverse a phonetic realm as is available in any language, past or present.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob adds some other points:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has more rhyme capability than Michael indicates. It is true that there isn&#039;t much rhyming capability among gismu, but among lujvo there should be considerably more rhymes. After all, all Lojban brivla end in a vowel or diphthong, and there are only so many possible endings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is true, though, that many of the rhyming syllables would be based on sharing the same rafsi, leading to a lack of variety of pure rhyming forms. But moving beyond pure rhyme, into Athelstan&#039;s half-rhyme and alliterative schemes should allow Lojban to show great richness. After all, Lojban has a much more restricted set of permitted word endings, and a smaller set of phonemes, than does English. Since there are, at least theoretically, more possible Lojban words than English words, this suggests a higher density of rhymes and near-rhymes than English has. Time will tell if this is a real feature of the language, and not a false extrapolation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban has many non-elidable structure words, but it has many elidable ones as well. It can even be said that Lojban&#039;s optional tense system is an elidable form of inflection. &amp;quot;pu klama&amp;quot; can be said to be an inflected form of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;; however, Lojban inflections are both optional and completely regular. It is unclear why this would be a disadvantage in poetry as compared with inflected languages, as Michael implies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With regard to sound and rhythm, I cannot say whether Lojban is more like Japanese than like German. However, since Lojban is a language with stress-oriented pronunciation, one would suspect that rhythm, (as opposed to rhyme) would follow the strong-stressed patterns of Germanic languages, as opposed to the syllabic rhythms that I believe are typical of most oriental languages (as well as French). The consonant clustering, is of course reminiscent of Slavic languages; perhaps we should examine Slavic poetry forms to determine some additional possibilities for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am not well-versed in poetry, but I am going to be getting a bit of experience in devising Lojban forms: the Arabian Nights tales that I am working on are scattered with embedded verse, as well as a frequently alliterative and simply-rhyming prose. I&#039;ll be trying to capture the Arabic richness of pattern in Lojban, just as Burton tried to capture it into English. As an example, which helps belie Michael&#039;s perception of a lack of synonyms, Burton&#039;s English translation of a vocative (near the beginning of the first story) reads &amp;quot;O King of the time and Caliph of the tide ...&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;tide&amp;quot; here obviously means &amp;quot;season&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;Yuletide&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is fully capable of expressing this parallel metaphor of nearly identical meanings with two totally unrelated expressions, just as English does: &amp;quot;doi nolrai co turni be le temci be&#039;o je catni be le cabna&amp;quot; (O superlative-noble type-of [governor of the time-interval and authority over the present]), and I even captured the alliteration (which is highly valued in Arabic poetry and a feature that Burton tries to emulate) at least as well as the English does. (I won&#039;t promise such successful Arabic poeticity in the rest of my translation.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In the final analysis, both Michael and Athelstan may be right. We have to try new ideas and see what works for Lojban. If we can give rebirth to old forms that have been lost to English, great. If people choose to develop a new cultural form of poetry, this may even be evidence of a new Sapir-Whorf effect of a type never consider by Jim Brown and others.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Guidelines for Understanding Unfamiliar Lojban Text ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Even if you only have a gismu list and rafsi indexes, you should be able to usefully work on translating the following. With simple cmavo lists, you can probably get most of the meaning, while if you&#039;ve studied the textbook lessons, almost all of the texts that follow should be un- derstood.&lt;br /&gt;
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This doesn&#039;t mean that you necessarily can just read the Lojban text straight and understand it. There are some tricks that a new learner can use to maximize understanding. This section attempts to explain the technique that we had the Lojban class use in tackling unfamiliar text.&lt;br /&gt;
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You should not allow yourself to be hampered by what you haven&#039;t yet studied, or what you don&#039;t have lists for. Translate what you can, and you may be able to interpolate the rest. Failing this, look at the literal and colloquial English translations in the section following, and try to figure out the function and/or meaning of the word or construct that you didn&#039;t understand, before moving on to the next sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Noting that all sentences start with .i and that new paragraphs start with ni&#039;o or ni&#039;oni&#039;o, do the following (the first two paragraphs of the English re-translation of Saki in the next section have been marked in the manner suggested as a sample):&lt;br /&gt;
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# Put brackets [] around each sentence in the text. Put quote marks &amp;quot;&amp;quot; around each quotation (starts with &amp;quot;lu&amp;quot; and ends with &amp;quot;li&#039;u&amp;quot;, or is a single word preceded by the word &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; (which indicates single-word quotation). Parentheses (mark them as such) are indicated by &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; as the left parenthesis, and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; as the right parenthesis. &amp;quot;sei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; are another set of matching left and right parentheses markers (indicating a metalinguistic comment - consider a sei/se&#039;u comment as a parenthetical sentence em- bedded in the other sentence, although sumti will always be attached with &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; in such a sentence) (the &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; can sometimes be elided, so don&#039;t worry if you don&#039;t find it), and are generally found totally within another sentence. Leave right ends unmarked if you can&#039;t find them; if the text is grammatical, they will become ap- parent. Marking these major constructs gives you the gross structure of the text.&lt;br /&gt;
# Put braces {} around the contents of any NU abstraction clause. The left side is marked by a member of NU lexeme (nu, ka, ni, jei, su&#039;u, zu&#039;o, pu&#039;u, mu&#039;e, si&#039;o, li&#039;i, za&#039;i). These may be compounded with le, lo, loi, lei, or one of the other articles in lexeme LE, e.g. &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot;. The end of a sentence or the word &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; always closes an abstraction clause; a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; may also close it, but don&#039;t assume so at this point - leave the right edge unmarked if it isn&#039;t obvious. The text within an abstraction clause is a sentence, so when you translate the sentence, you&#039;ll then find the right end.&lt;br /&gt;
# For each sentence, analyze it from left to right. Identify and translate each brivla. If it is next to another brivla, it is a tanru, so translate the tanru as a whole. A brivla may be preceded by &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;, which negates it; include the &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in the tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;If a brivla or tanru is preceded by an article in lexeme LE, then the whole is a sumti. Put a single underline under each sumti as you identify it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;If a brivla or tanru is preceded by &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, then it is the main selbri of a bridi sentence. Put a double underline under each selbri as you identify it (the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is not part of the selbri).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A selbri may be preceded by a tense instead of by &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; (a tense is usually a single cmavo or a compound containing one or more of ba, ca, pu, vi, va, vu, zi, za, zu; e.g. &amp;quot;ca klama&amp;quot;). You will use double underlines for tensed selbri as well (the tense is not part of the selbri); however, a tense on a brivla does not necessarily mean that you have a selbri. Look at the word before the tense. If the tense is preceded by a member of LE (e.g. le pu jmive), the construct is a sumti, and should be single-underlined; otherwise it is a selbri and should be double-underlined.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Not all selbri are marked with &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; or a tense; especially when following an anaphora (pronoun). In &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; is a sumti and &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; is a selbri. However, &amp;quot;lemi klama&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;le mi klama&amp;quot;, same difference) is a sumti - the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; makes all the difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;As you can see, telling the difference between sumti and selbri is the toughest thing in the language. It is best to start from the left, marking off sumti. If you come to a brivla that isn&#039;t a sumti, it generally is a selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
# Relative clauses and phrases help identify sumti, and are sub-sentences and sumti, respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
## Relative clauses are attached to sumti with noi or poi. These are embedded bridi sentences, so mark the noi/poi as a left edge of a bridi clause with a left carat &#039;&amp;lt;&#039;. By the grammar, you also know that what precedes the noi/poi is a sumti. The end of a relative clause is marked by &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; (which may be elided). Relative clauses are also often terminated by running into the end of the sentence or into the main selbri of the sentence, so again, don&#039;t worry if you don&#039;t find a right edge. Mark right edges, as you identify them, with a right carat &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
## Relative phrases are attached to sumti with pe, po&#039;u, po, po&#039;e, ne, no&#039;u, and goi, and a few other members of lexeme GOI that occur infrequently. If you see one of these words, then that which follows it is a sumti AND that which precedes it is also a sumti. The second sumti modifies or relates to the first in some way depending on the particular cmavo. Put a pair of equal signs around one of these attaching terms, since they usually indicate some type of relationship between the two sumti so joined.&lt;br /&gt;
# Most cmavo not already mentioned will be in one of four lexemes.&lt;br /&gt;
## Anaphora (pronouns) are in lexeme KOhA and lexeme DA. Most frequently these include mi, do, mi&#039;o, ma&#039;a, zu&#039;i, zo&#039;e, da, de, di, ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, ko&#039;i, ko&#039;o, ko&#039;u. These are all sumti, although they may be found in a compound possessive form: lemi stizu, in which case the article, anaphora, and brivla together make up a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
## Most unfamiliar cmavo will be either a sumti tag in lexeme BAI or FA, or a discursive in lexeme UI. If you have a cmavo list, look among those lexemes first. UI lexeme has no effect on the grammar - you can ignore them until you have all the rest of the sentence figured out. sumti tags are always followed by a sumti, so you can also ignore them, except to use them to find a sumti that is otherwise unidentified.&lt;br /&gt;
# By now, you should have well marked up the Lojban, and have underlined or marked pretty much every word in the sentence. This is because everything in a sentence is either a sumti, a discursive, or the main selbri. Now translate the sentence, piece by piece, as best as you can. (Remember that &amp;quot;le bajra&amp;quot; translates as &amp;quot;the runner&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;the run&amp;quot;.) You may fail on the first several sentences, and have to look at our translations to see the pieces, but you will find that you quickly get the hang of it. The procedure only seems complicated at first; you&#039;ll be doing it in your head rather than on paper after a bit of experience. &lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll let Michael start off with some of his Lojbanic attempts. We&#039;ll have more eventually, but I&#039;m less willing to play with someone&#039;s phrasing to make it grammatical in the case of something labelled &#039;poetry&#039; instead of &#039;prose&#039;, for fear of losing some intended sound or meaning effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Palindrome (mitfa&#039;e lerpoi) ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Michael Helsem&lt;br /&gt;
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.a&#039;u le rapcalku cu klacpare lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
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(I wish!) The repeat-shell is a going (to/from) climber, loosely speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob: The significance of this statement is left to the reader, but it is both grammatical and a valid palindrome.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Lojban Aphorism by Michael Helsem (corrected by Bob) ===&lt;br /&gt;
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.uu lo&#039;e rarbau cu simlu jalge loi cmadjizu&#039;e pe sekai lo ta&#039;e drabai ka juxre&lt;br /&gt;
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(Sorrow!) The typical natural-language is a seeming-result of small-want-acts (random acts) which-are-characterized-by habitually correct-forcer awkwardness.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is approximated by: The typical natural language seems to result from random acts of awkwardness forced by correctness.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Self-Description ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
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coi pendo&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i puzuze&#039;uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o tadni le prijypenla&#039;u .e loi bangu .i mi pu&#039;i tavla gi&#039;a tcidu vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la tcoban. .e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban. .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban. .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa loi menli .a zdile prenu&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi pu jbena la .erix. park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi pucaze&#039;a sepli gugde gi&#039;e caca pagbu le softo badyjecta .i mi capu xabju la .iunaitydsteits. zai la pasovobinanc. .i mi capu tadni vi le slacitcu&#039;e po&#039;e la linbruk. .e le balcu&#039;e po&#039;u la .adelfais. .e le su&#039;ore balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland. .i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la MERiland.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi capu ciska re lojbyciksi torselcusku&lt;br /&gt;
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co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A letter to Marcia Greenough ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
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coi marcan.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi du la tipitr. park.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o lemi nu penmi do ca le midydeisa&#039;i noi pu kansa la krtis. bruks. cu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa lei menli prenu&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplun. .i pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i .e&#039;o ko dunda lemi nu rinsa kei la kyrtis. .e la djak. danyvan.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
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Two letters to Deb Wunder&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
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coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi du la tipitr. park. .i mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i mi pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o lemi&#039;o nu fonkasta&#039;a pu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loi menli je zdile nu kasta&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi vi benji re jbociksi selsku do .i mi pu ciska ri .i .a&#039;o ri ba pluka do&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
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coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi do .ije mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e la .abis. .e la .erik. TIdeman. .e la .art. .uiners. .e la morokos.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o ledo ka prenu cu mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o .a&#039;u mi djica lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki je melbi ke cizemoi bendei .i mi pacna lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki cizemoi nanca .ije mi pacna ledo naldu&#039;e ka selzunti ledo malmensi&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi du ledo pendo poi du la tipitr.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== From Genesis ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob&lt;br /&gt;
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 .i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e la ted. vi lenu cfari&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o la cev. pu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
      lu ko loi gusni cu cfari leka zasti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije loi gusni pu cfari leka zasti&lt;br /&gt;
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=== An Original Science Fiction Story ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Jamie Bechtel&lt;br /&gt;
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Jamie wrote this in July, having received only Lessons 1-6, and a couple of hours tutoring at LogFest in June. Nearly all of the grammar he uses is covered in those 6 lessons, showing how much you can do with just a little Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is the first original Lojban science fiction, perhaps the start of a long tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
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loi dacti poi farlu le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
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mi pupu platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi xirma .i lera cmene du zo ekuus.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki&#039;u lo vlipa ke bratu carvi .i mi tcidu lo cukta ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo cladu pe vi le gapru loldi .i mi bajra ra .i le savru krasi cu barda bratu .i ri pu farlu klama fo le&lt;br /&gt;
drudi fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi cikre le drudi kalri&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi tirna lo du&#039;e savru pe vi le danmo tubli&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi&#039;e zgana lo bratu .i mi na kakne lenu cikre kei mu&#039;i leka tcima&lt;br /&gt;
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.i savru vi le cnita loldi .i le savru cu na rarna .i mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u mi cu terpa .i mi na birti catlu.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i lo dukse cizra prenu cu sanli ta .i ra dukse barda ke blabi kubli gi&#039;e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ra pu farlu le tsani .i mi zgana lo drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani .i nalci since&lt;br /&gt;
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.i pa lera moklu cu bacru lu ko na terpa .i le jmive ranji temci po&#039;e ro lemi prenu cu mentu li paci .i mi na kakne lenu mi xrani li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
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.i le tcima cu manku ri&#039;anai la gaicac.&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;o ve&#039;a loi citri ku loi prenu pu viska loinu cizra dacti carvi .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi carvi .i lonu curnu carvi .i lonu lijda dacti carvi&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o mi puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri krici lu da poi loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li&#039;u .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ca na fasnu seja&#039;e ma li&#039;u se cpedu mi .i lu ma&#039;a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;oni&#039;o le cizra prenu cu morsi .i le since cu citka le morsi cizra .i ba la&#039;edi&#039;u le since cu gapci&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific American ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
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Short story from James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot;, Scientific American, June, 1960, p. 61:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban version:&lt;br /&gt;
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le le jenmi gidva goi ko&#039;e ge&#039;u girzu lidne goi ko&#039;a pu cusku leko&#039;a ka selpluka leko&#039;a nu cusku leko&#039;a ka puzuzai djuno le fatci .i ko&#039;a pu tsali cusku lu ko&#039;e .ia na tcica mi ri&#039;anai leko&#039;e nu troci li&#039;u gi&#039;e pu minde leko&#039;e noi du zenono prenu ku&#039;o ka pinfu leko&#039;e kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Roswell, New Mexico, 1947 ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
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le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko&#039;a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko&#039;e goi le varsonci .e le skeprenu ku lo kensa marce gi&#039;e pu skicu le ze morsi ke re&#039;atra xadni poi pupu va se facki .i ko&#039;a pu kajde ko&#039;e lu loka jecta snura cu se sarcu loka mulno mipri noi srana ti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Short Lesson in Office Politics ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park, corrected by Nora&lt;br /&gt;
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The preceding pieces by T. Peter use fairly straight-forward grammar, and are relatively short. There were minor errors, of the types discussed in the mini-grammar discussions at the end of this issue, but T. Peter gets full credit for the work: he did quite well. This translation is considerably longer, and uses more complex grammar. Nora had to make substantial changes to make it both grammatical and to mean what T. Peter indicated in his translation. Since we didn&#039;t have time to get T. Peter&#039;s approval of the changes before publication, Nora is also listed in the credits.&lt;br /&gt;
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tordu tadnyspi co srana lo pu&#039;u briju selturni&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel. xokcaild. mupli cu jinvi lenu lenu se cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju mupli lo jikca nalzifre&lt;br /&gt;
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.i le senlanli cu skicu leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
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.i le cukta poi se cmene lu nu camrivbi leka zifre li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la from. ge&#039;u .e lu le sepci&#039;o so&#039;irpre vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la rizman. ge&#039;u .e lu le seljitro risna po&#039;a vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi&#039;e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke cinmo nu jitro po&#039;u ru&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi ta&#039;e pluka gasnu ke briju je zarci gunka na&#039;o klesi se fendi fi re frica girzu&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so&#039;eroi xendo gasnu fi loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi&lt;br /&gt;
selselfu&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi jursa je minde gasnu fi loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa jinvi sera&#039;a loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi gunka po&#039;u ra cu gungri cmima jundi gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi&#039;e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera&#039;a loi ckamu carmi ke pluka je sutra ke&#039;e gasnu gunka gi&#039;e ckamu vajni jinvi sera&#039;a le se cinmo be loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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.i pisu&#039;o loi pamoi girzu gunka no&#039;u loi gungri cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po&#039;i ganxo bo cinba po&#039;a je ke drata gunka bradi ke&#039;e jinvi sera&#039;a loi remoi girzu gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Symbolic Logic Problem by Lewis Carroll ===&lt;br /&gt;
translated by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
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This translation was Sylvia&#039;s &#039;final examination&#039; from the Lojban class, and she did quite well, though some problems were later identified in discussions with pc. In going over the translation in class, we discussed how to write this logical material in a more &#039;logical&#039; form, adding the answer. Bob took notes and expanded to include the full text of Carroll&#039;s original, which was stated as a logic problem with solution, and stipulated symbols to be used for the various propositions.&lt;br /&gt;
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ro da poi na mulno leka melbi claxu ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
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.i no da poi se jadni lo silna cu mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi na mulno leka na cilmo ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jemna cu mulno leka melbi claxu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi se stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s expansion and correction:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leflogji nabmi ci&#039;a la lu,is. keral. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo&#039;e stidi lenu ke&#039;a selru&#039;a co nibypoi. .i lo se nibli cu se facki ko&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o muremo&#039;o tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
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pamai ro da poi na mulno leka claxu loika melbi cu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije remai no da poi se jadni lo silna cu su&#039;oroi mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije cimai no da selcu&#039;i .ei co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa gi&#039;enai mulno leka na cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije mumai no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije xamai ro da poi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu&#039;i se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ru&#039;u roda dacti .ije ly .abu. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li&#039;u .ije ly by. du lu&#039;elu jinru minji li&#039;u .ije ly cy. du lu&#039;elu se jadni lo silna li&#039;u .ije ly dy. du lu&#039;elu selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi li&#039;u .ije ly .ebu. du lu&#039;elu se zbasu fi lo calku jemna pilka li&#039;u .ije ly xy. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka sudga li&#039;u seisa&#039;a ri mintu leka sudga .ije ly ky. du lu&#039;elu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o danfu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i muremo&#039;o ni&#039;ida&#039;uku ro da poi jinru minji cu na se zbasu fi le calku jemna pilka&lt;br /&gt;
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Open Window by Saki ===&lt;br /&gt;
translated by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was Athelstan&#039;s &#039;final examination&#039; from the class, and an excellent piece of work indeed. Most of the piece was written before the latest grammar change was approved, and Athelstan missed the class session on tense. As a result, Bob and Nora have updated Athelstan&#039;s work to the current grammar before publication, with Athelstan having gone over and approved most of the changes. The piece serves as an excellent tutorial on many more complex parts of the grammar. You will want to note in the translation several cmavo and grammar features that are not yet well-documented anywhere else. This piece is worth the considerable time it will take you to look up gismu and cmavo, analyze tanru and lujvo, and make your best guesses as to the grammatical meaning, then checking with our double-checked word-for-word translation and Saki&#039;s original English. We are providing a mini-cmavo list as a supplement to this issue to aid in your study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a long piece, and some of the grammar is quite complex, perhaps even more complex than &#039;natural&#039; fluent Lojban will be, since Athelstan was trying to capture the style, sentence order, and flavor, of Saki&#039;s writing. Thus some sentences are longer and more complex than they might need to be. Yet the Lojban is roughly the same length as the English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please notify us if you are totally confused by any construct. None of us are perfect at Lojban yet, and even work checked by three goods Lojbanists could still have errors and strangeness within. Your comments are appreciated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mele kalri canko ci&#039;a la sakis. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn.natl. goi fo&#039;a troci lenu cusku le drani poi ke&#039;a cu ge cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u gi nake jikcaxlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i .i secau lenu fo&#039;a cusku kei fo&#039;a senpi lenu le porsi nu jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei cusidju le xanka ve mikce poi fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce ni&#039;o lu ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini li&#039;u lefo&#039;a goi le go&#039;i ku mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu fo&#039;a ca binxo cobredi lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi .i lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu .i ledoni xanka kei cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu ranji badri .i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi pujikca se penmi mi .i su&#039;o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u pu mutce pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la fremtn. puxiso&#039;e pensi lu xu la mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu poi fo&#039;a dunda fi ke&#039;a fe pa le pemdjuxa&#039;a ku&#039;ocu cmima lei pluka li&#039;u .i lu xu do pu penmi so&#039;i le viza prenu li&#039;u preti fi le tunbyti&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu ri ca pajni leni na sance jikca kei lebanzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i ji&#039;ino prenu li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu lemi mensi puviza xabju la REKtoris. pu le puzi nanca vomei.i ra pu dunda su&#039;o pemdjuxa&#039;a befe su&#039;o le viza prenu li&#039;u .i romoi jufra bacru ci&#039;o lenu selbirti xenru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ju&#039;e do djuno le ji&#039;inomei xu lemi rirme&#039;i li&#039;u ranji jmina preti se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i lo su&#039;emei po&#039;u lera cmene .e lera judri li&#039;u tugni se danfu le vitke .i fo&#039;a pensi kucli lenu lamezyz.sepltn. goi ko&#039;u cu speni gi&#039;a mroselspe .i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi&#039;e pe le kumfa cu stidi leka nanmuxabju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu leko&#039;u goi ra banli betri cu fasnu puca le pu nanca be li ci seisa&#039;a se cusku be le citno .i la&#039;edi&#039;u balvilenu ledo mensi vi xabju li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ki&#039;a leko&#039;u betri vau li&#039;u preti fi la framtn. .i ki&#039;u da fo le vive&#039;a surla nurma stuzi fa lei betri cusimlu lo fange&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu&#039;i ma mi&#039;a rinka lenu leva canko cu ranji le kalri kei le mela aktobr.lecysoltei li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u noi ke&#039;a ca farja&#039;o le barda fasyvroca&#039;o noi lamji le saurfoi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .i&#039;e leni glare cu zmadu lo&#039;e ni ca citsi glare seisa&#039;a se cusku be la fremtn. .i ji&#039;a xu le va canko fi dackini fe le betri li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu tai lenu va canko pagre ku cazi le satci cibnanca purci ku ko&#039;a goi ge leko&#039;u speni gi leko&#039;u re citno bruna cucliva zukte fi le leca djedi ku terdanti nunkalte&lt;br /&gt;
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.i ko&#039;a ko&#039;a noroi xruti .i ca lenu ko&#039;a cu ragve klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko&#039;a selneirai ke cpirsnaipekatstu kei ro le cimei cu se ri&#039;usrutu&#039;o lo nurcau rancimderke&#039;a .i ca le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa sei se djunose&#039;u loi stuzi poi ke&#039;a cu snura ca lei drata nanca cu suksa je nalseljde nalsarji .i leko&#039;a xadni cu noroi se facki.i la&#039;edi&#039;u kufrydukti pagbu li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u goi fo&#039;e .i le voksa be le citno cazi binxo co ckaji leka jikcakufra na.e leka ci&#039;orja&#039;o co dirsre remna .i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a calo ba djedi .i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levinenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu peze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cukansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;icu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenule nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mipiso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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ni&#039;o fo&#039;e sisti tai lo cmalu nu desku .i la fremtn. surlybi&#039;o va&#039;o lenu le rirme&#039;i cu so&#039;irzu&#039;edzukla le kumfanenri tai lo gunma be loi xernuncru pe mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u lerci lenu ko&#039;u klama ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu zdile do li&#039;u se bacru ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ra capu carmi cinri li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza le kalri canko seisa&#039;a sutra se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i lemi speni cebruna goi ko&#039;a cu zvati le selxa&#039;u bazi leinu seldantysazri .i ko&#039;a roroi nerkla fo ta .i ko&#039;a pu bartu ca leicimynalsai foldi seni&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a ba galfi fi lo naljinsa kalsa fe lemi selke&#039;i lolbu&#039;u .i simsa leka medo po&#039;u loinanmu kei vau xu li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u gleki rajyta&#039;a fi leinu seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so&#039;umei .e leka cumki loi datka ca le dunra .i ga&#039;ala fremtn. goi fo&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u curve ka nalpu&#039;a .i fo&#039;a camtcu je su&#039;episo&#039;emei bo snada troci lenu fo&#039;a galfi lenuterta&#039;a kei lo mroru&#039;i ckamu nu terta&#039;a .i fo&#039;a sanji lenu lefo&#039;a selvi&#039;e capu su&#039;episo&#039;umei jundi kei .e lenu leko&#039;ukanla ru&#039;i midyctarmu&#039;u fo fo&#039;a fi le kalri canko .e levu saurfoi .i fo&#039;a birti lenu lefo&#039;a vitke pe ca leca betrinacykefydei cu xlafunca cunkemdimnyfau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu lei mikce cu tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo lonu mulno surla .e lonu menli ci&#039;ordu&#039;e claxu .e lonu mi rivbiroda poi simsa lonu vlile slugu&#039;a li&#039;u nuzba fi la fremtn. noi ke&#039;a cu jinvi le su&#039;episo&#039;imei kampu jifselkri po&#039;u lenuloi roroi penmi .e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be lei terbi&#039;a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka jevelmikce .i lu sera&#039;a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni li&#039;u se mi&#039;acru fo&#039;a .i lu xu na go&#039;i li&#039;u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi&#039;o lo voksa poi cazi basti lo nalselcni nunva&#039;u .i ko&#039;u suksalenu binxo lo cikna jundi .i go&#039;i mu&#039;inai le se bacru be la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ko&#039;a vize&#039;o klama ca .uo ku seisa&#039;a se laucru be ko&#039;u se&#039;u cazi le tcatytei .i .ienaipei ko&#039;a simsa zo&#039;e poike&#039;a cimdre se gacri ji&#039;e le kanla li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. piso&#039;umei desku ri gi&#039;e carna zu&#039;i le tunbyti&#039;u sekai leka firsku poi se djica fo&#039;a lenu cusku lekaci&#039;orkansa jimpe .i le citno cu caicta da pe vije&#039;oza le kalri canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco lefo&#039;ekanla .i sekai leka lenku jenca co velskicycau nunte&#039;a ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi&#039;e catlu fa&#039;a le se go&#039;i .i va&#039;o le manbi&#039;o vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko&#039;a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai le canko .i roda po&#039;u pa le cimeicu bevri lo terdanti seni&#039;a leda birka .i pa le cimei cu mi&#039;arbe&#039;i lo blabi kosta noi dandu leri janco .i lo tatpi kebunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko&#039;a jafti&#039;e .i sekai leka sancau ku ko&#039;a jbibi&#039;o le zdani .i lo ruble je citno voksacu sagysku ra&#039;i lei manku fe lu mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo&#039;a grana .e lefo&#039;a mapku .i le zdacravro .e le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane folbimvrocu kandi selzga velplu sepa&#039;u lefo&#039;a xalni nu ze&#039;o bajra .i lo relxilma&#039;e sazri noi ke&#039;a klama fo le dargu cu bainerbi&#039;o le spabi&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu zu&#039;i rivbi lo bazi nu janli&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu vi stuzi mi&#039;a doi lami dirba seisa&#039;a se bacru be le bevri be le blabi cavykosta be&#039;o noi ke&#039;a nerkla fo lecanko se&#039;u noi ke&#039;a piso&#039;imei cimdre selgai .i ku&#039;i piso&#039;e le cimdre cu sudga .i ma sukybajykla le bartu ca lenu mi&#039;avi klama li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu fo&#039;a goi lo traji nalfadni nanmu po&#039;u la mestr. natl. cu go&#039;i seisa&#039;a se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i putavla fi leri nunbi&#039;a .enai lo drata gi&#039;e sukli&#039;a secau lo litli&#039;avla .a lo xervla ca lenu do vi klama .i lakne jinvilenu fo&#039;a pu viska lo ru&#039;ipre li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku cu mukti seisa&#039;a seke smaci&#039;o bacru le tunbyti&#039;u .i fo&#039;a fi mi skicu fe lenu fo&#039;acamte&#039;a loi gerku .i paroiku fo&#039;a seke jersi kalte vazaive&#039;a lo mrofoi pe vi le ri&#039;emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerkugirzu .i fo la&#039;edi&#039;u nitcu fa fo&#039;a fe lenu caze&#039;a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke&#039;a va&#039;o lenu lei gerku cagekyki&#039;a gi&#039;e jdecisma gi&#039;e sputu vau ve&#039;ijega&#039;u fo&#039;a .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li&#039;u .i leka finti loi cizra lisri ze&#039;i lo cmalu temci cu ka fo&#039;e se certu steci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Self-Description&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi pendo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello friends&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am T. Peter Park who is a new Lojban-student.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i puzuze&#039;uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o tadni le prijypenla&#039;u .e loi bangu .i mi pu&#039;i tavla gi&#039;a tcidu vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la tcoban. .e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban. .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban. .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa loi menli .a zdile prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am a librarian (book-house-expert), linguist (language-expert), and historian (history-expert). I work in the library (book-house) of Lynbrook on Long Island. A long time ago for a long time I studied modern (new-time) European history at the University (great-school) of Virginia. My principal hobbies (non-job activities) are studying philosophy (wise-thinking-art) and languages. I can speak and/or read English, Estonian, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Swedish, and Russian. I especially like studying Lojban. I very much enjoy conversation with intelligent and/or amusing people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi pu jbena la .erix. park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi pucaze&#039;a sepli gugde gi&#039;e caca pagbu le softo badyjecta .i mi capu xabju la .iunaitydsteits. zai la pasovobinanc. .i mi capu tadni vi le slacitcu&#039;e po&#039;e la linbruk. .e le balcu&#039;e po&#039;u la .adelfais. .e le su&#039;ore balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland. .i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la MERiland.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I was born to Erich and Ilme Park in 1941 (the date 1941) in Estonia, which was for some time a separate country and is now part of the Soviet Megastate (big-polity). I have dwelt in the United States since 1948 (the date 1948). I have studied in the high school (older-young-school) of Lynbrook, the college (great-school) named Adelphi, and the universities (great-schools) of Virginia and Maryland. I studied library science at the University (great-school) of Maryland.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi capu ciska re lojbyciksi torselcusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I have written two Lojban-explaining articles (short-discourses, brief-expressions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Good-bye!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A letter to Marcia Greenough by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi marcan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Marcia!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called T. Peter Park.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi nu penmi do ca le midydeisa&#039;i noi pu kansa la krtis. bruks. cu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa lei menli prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;My act of meeting you at the midday-meal (lunch), which incidentally was with the one called Curtis Brooks, very much pleased me. I very much like all the acts of talking-together (conversation) which incidentally are with some of the intelligent people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplun. .i pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a language-expert (linguist), and a history-expert (historian). I work in the book-house (library) of Lynbrook on the Long-Island. I studied new-time (modern) European history in the great-school (university) of Virginia. My principal un-job activity of doing (hobby) is the activity of language-study (linguistics). I particularly enjoy the activity of studying the one called Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko dunda lemi nu rinsa kei la kyrtis. .e la djak. danyvan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Please give my acts of greeting to the one called Curtis and the one called Jack Donovan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Deb!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. .i mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i mi pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called T. Peter Park. I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a language-expert (linguist), and a history- expert (historian). I work in the book-house (library) of Lynbrook on the Long-Island. I studied new-time (modern) European history in the great-school (university) of Virginia. My principal un-job activity of doing (hobby) is the activity of language-study (linguistics).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi&#039;o nu fonkasta&#039;a pu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loi menli je zdile nu kasta&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Our act of telephone-together-talking (phone conversation) much pleased me. I very much like intelligent and amusing acts of together-talking (conversation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi vi benji re jbociksi selsku do .i mi pu ciska ri .i .a&#039;o ri ba pluka do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I send here two Lojban-explaining discourses to you. I wrote them and I hope they will please you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Deb!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi do .ije mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e la .abis. .e la .erik. TIdeman. .e la .art. .uiners. .e la morokos.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I very much liked the event of meeting you. And I very much liked the event of meeting &amp;quot;Loj-Bob,&amp;quot; Nora, Athelstan, Abbie, Eric Tiedemann, Art Wieners, and Morocco.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ledo ka prenu cu mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Your quality of person-ness very much pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .a&#039;u mi djica lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki je melbi ke cizemoi bendei .i mi pacna lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki cizemoi nanca .ije mi pacna ledo naldu&#039;e ka selzunti ledo malmensi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I want to wish you a very happy and beautiful 37th birthday. I hope for a very happy 37th year for you. And I hope for your not-too-much being-interfered-ness (condition of being bothered) on the part of your quote blankety-blank sister unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi du ledo pendo poi du la tipitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am your friend who is called T. Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
From Genesis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e la ted. ca lenu cfari&lt;br /&gt;
 God made the sky and the Earth during the act of initiating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 ni&#039;o la cev. pu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
      lu .ai loi gusni ca cfari leka zasti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
 .iseri&#039;abo loi gusni puca cfari leka zasti&lt;br /&gt;
 God said,&lt;br /&gt;
      &amp;quot;(I intend!) Light now begins the quality of existing&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
 And therefore light did then commence the property of existence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== An Original Science Fiction Story ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Jamie Bechtel&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The italics are Bob&#039;s literal translation. The non-bold English text is Jamie&#039;s intended English equivalent. You can see for yourself how well he did, with only lessons through Lesson 6, no computer aided instruction, and learning on his own. The only errors in the version he sent me were some minor tense items he hadn&#039;t had lessons for (though he guessed well), and the substitutuion of &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; when &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; was correct. I corrected these errors. His story was written before the last grammar change, I had to change &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; in a couple of places as a result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jamie rewards us with a couple of very Lojbanic (as opposed to English) phrasings. Especially until we are established with an international speaker base, there will be a premium on writings which go beyond expressing things the way we do in English, and which use the features of Lojban to express things in ways difficult or impossible in other languages. This can involve non-English tanru, a feature of Michael Helsem&#039;s writings, or the turn of Lojban grammar that relates ideas using Lojbanic precepts. (The classic of the latter form was the translation of &amp;quot;A table has four legs&amp;quot;, using the Lojbanic place structure for &#039;leg&#039; to create the form &amp;quot;A table is be-legged by four somethings&amp;quot;. In Lojban, this is &amp;quot;lo jubme cu se tuple vo da&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent work, Jamie!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi dacti poi farlu le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Objects that fall from the sky&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi pupu platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi xirma .i lera cmene du zoa ekuus.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I had-planned the state of seeing a movie which is called the Latin name for Horse ... and its (the movie&#039;s) name is identical to &#039;ekuus&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I had planned to see a movie called &amp;quot;Equus&amp;quot; (which is Latin for horse).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki&#039;u lo vlipa ke bratu carvi .i mi tcidu lo cukta ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I stay at my room because of some powerful hail-rain. I read a book because of this (my staying in my room.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;However, I stayed in my room because of a powerful hail storm. Because of this I read a book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo cladu pe vi le gapru loldi .i mi bajra ra .i le savru krasi cu barda bratu .i ri pu farlu klama fo le drudi fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I hear a loud (thing) which-is-associated-with at-the above-floor. I run to it (the noise). The noise origin is large hail. They (the hail) fallingly came via the roof (as a route) from the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I heard a loud crash upstairs, and ran to it. Large hailstones were making the noise. They were falling through the roof.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cikre le drudi kalri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I fixed the roof-opening.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I patched the roof hole.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo du&#039;e savru pe vi le danmo tubli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I hear some excessive noise which-is-associated-with at-the smoke-tube.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I heard noises from the chimney.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi&#039;e zgana lo bratu .i mi na kakne lenu cikre kei mu&#039;i leka tcima&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I run to the smoke-tube opening and observe hail. I&#039;m not-able at the event-of repairing, because of the weather-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I ran to the chimney and saw hail-stones. I wasn&#039;t able to do repairs because of the weather.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i savru vi le cnita loldi .i le savru cu na rarna .i mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u mi cu terpa .i mi na birti catlu.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Noise, at-the below-floor! The noise is not-natural. Because of this (the un-naturalness of the noise), I fear. I un- certain-ly look at.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;There&#039;s noises below. They aren&#039;t natural, and this scared me. I carefully looked.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo dukse cizra prenu cu sanli ta .i ra dukse barda ke blabi kubli gi&#039;e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;An excessively-bizarre person stands there (on-that). It (the person) is an excessively-large type-of white-cube, and possesses excessive mouth-amounts.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A monster stood there. It was a giant white cube with many mouths.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra pu farlu le tsani .i mi zgana lo drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani .i nalci since&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It (the person) had fallen from-the sky. I observe some other type-of bizarre things that fall from-the sky. Wing- snakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It had fallen from the sky. I saw other weird things falling from the sky - winged snakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i pa lera moklu cu bacru lu ko na terpa .i le jmive ranji temci po&#039;e ro lemi prenu cu mentu li paci .i mi na kakne lenu mi xrani li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;One of its (the person&#039;s) mouths utters &amp;quot;(Imperative) You not-fear! The live-r continue time interval inalienably possessed by all my people is in minutes the number 13. I&#039;m not-able at the-event-of me injuring.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;One of its mouths spoke &amp;quot;Don&#039;t be scared. My kind only live 13 minutes. I can do you no harm&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am-surprised-by the-state-of the bizarre-person expressing in form/media Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I&#039;m surprised the monster speaks Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le tcima cu manku ri&#039;anai la gaicac.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The weather is dark not-justified-by that called 12-hour.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It&#039;s dark despite being noon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o ve&#039;a loi citri ku loi prenu pu viska loinu cizra dacti carvi .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi carvi .i lonu curnu carvi .i lonu lijda dacti carvi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Totally new subject. During medium-interval of the mass of history, the People saw Events of bizarre-things raining. People saw some-events-of amphibian-raining. Some-events-of worm-raining. Some-events-of religious-object raining.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Throughout history people have seen strange objects fall from the sky - frogs, worms, and religious objects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri krici lu da poi loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li&#039;u .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ca na fasnu seja&#039;e ma li&#039;u se cpedu mi .i lu ma&#039;a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New subject. I long-ago met a short-man. He (the man) believed &amp;quot;Something which People believe in, occurs.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;These (occurrings of what people believe in) now not-occur as-a-result-of what?&amp;quot; was requested by me. &amp;quot;We (me and you and others) believe in Science and-not Religion&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Long ago, I met a short man. He believed &amp;quot;Whatever people believe, happens&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Why don&#039;t weird things happen today?&amp;quot;, I asked. &amp;quot;Because we believe in science, not religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le cizra prenu cu morsi .i le since cu citka le morsi cizra .i ba la&#039;edi&#039;u le since cu gapci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Totally new subject. The bizarre person is dead. The snakes eat the dead bizarre (one). And-after-this (the eating), the snakes are gas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The monster died. The snakes at the monster. Afterwards, the snakes evaporated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific American&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le le jenmi gidva goi ko&#039;e ge&#039;u girzu lidne goi ko&#039;a pu cusku leko&#039;a ka selpluka leko&#039;a nu cusku le ko&#039;a ka puzuzai djuno le fatci .i ko&#039;a pu tsali cusku lu ko&#039;e ia na tcica mi ri&#039;anai leko&#039;e nu troci li&#039;u gi&#039;e pu minde leko&#039;e noi du zenono prenu ku&#039;o ka pinfu leko&#039;e kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Army-guides&#039; (referred to as they2) group leader (referred to as he1) expressed his1 state of being pleased by his1 event of expressing his1 state of knowing long-past-time the facts. He1 forcefully said quote they2 certainly did not deceive me despite their2 event of trying unquote and ordered their2, who incidentally were 700 persons, state of being prisoners in their2 rooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compare the Lojban with the 1960 Loglan version (which bears only slight resemblence to JCB&#039;s current version of the language):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le narmi glida grupa cefli pa sedbo koko da pa nu pluci po sedbo ko da papaca sazno le ri fekto.... ka ia no de mandu mi ka da forli sedbo ka nu nie de pa trati ka e pa djori senini de nu lakso vi le ru kruma pe de&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The chief of the group of army guides said that he was pleased to say theat he had known the facts for a long time. &amp;quot;The certainly did not deceive me,&amp;quot; he said forcefully, &amp;quot;even though they tried,&amp;quot; and ordered seven hundred of them locked up in their rooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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Roswell, New Mexico, 1947&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko&#039;a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko&#039;e goi le varsonci .e le skeprenu ku lo kensa marce gi&#039;e pu skicu le ze morsi ke re&#039;atra xadni poi pupu va se facki .i ko&#039;a pu kajde ko&#039;e lu lo ka jecta snura cu se sarcu lo ka mulno mipri noi srana ti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The air-Army soldier-leader, referred to as &amp;quot;he1&amp;quot;, described the crashed flying-disc to the air-soldiers and the science-persons, [both] referred to as &amp;quot;them2&amp;quot;, as an outer-space vehicle, and described the seven dead type of human- form bodies which had been discovered there. He1 warned them2, quote, at least one state of polity security necessitates at least one state of being completely secret which incidentally pertains to this, unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Army Air Force officer described the crashed flying disc to the airmen and scientists (both &amp;quot;them&amp;quot;) as a space-ship, and described the seven dead alien bodies which had been found there. He warned them, &amp;quot;National security requires complete secrecy which incidentally concerns this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob comments: This is quite good. I want to point out a feature that contrasts what I said about Jamie&#039;s Lojbanic forms: T. Peter&#039;s use of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; in the last sentence. This is English usage, &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; as Nora calls it when she all to frequently catches me doing it. Yes, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; translates to &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; in English. But, &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; rarely translates to &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; which is used only when pointing or otherwise indicating the referent. Unlike an English reader, the Lojbanist shouldn&#039;t presume what &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; refers to in the story, and must examine the implausible as well as the plausible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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A Short Lesson in Office Politics&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park, corrected by Nora&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tordu tadnyspi co srana lo pu&#039;u briju selturni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Short study-piece which concerns that which is the process of office type being-governed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Short Lesson on Office Politics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel. xokcaild. mupli cu jinvi lenu lenu se cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju mupli lo jikca nalzifre&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are social-community doubting-analysts who incidentally are by Erich Fromm and David Riesman and Arlie Russell Hochschild exemplified, think that the state of being emotionally controlled of the set of those who are job-workers is a principal example of that which is social type unfreedom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le senlanli cu skicu leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;These doubting-analysts describe the property of being compelled of the property of always smiling and the property of always pleasing acting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cukta poi se cmene lu nu camrivbi leka zifre li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la from. ge&#039;u .e lu le sepci&#039;o so&#039;irpre vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la rizman. ge&#039;u .e lu le seljitro risna po&#039;a vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi&#039;e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke cinmo nu jitro po&#039;u ru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The books, defined as &amp;quot;the intense-avoidance of freedom&amp;quot; written by the one named Fromm and &amp;quot;the separate-feeling many-people&amp;quot; written by the one named Riesman and &amp;quot;the controlled heart (figurative)&amp;quot; by the one named Hochschild, describe and doubtingly-analyze this artificial-type emotion-control.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi ta&#039;e pluka gasnu ke briju je zarci gunka na&#039;o klesi se fendi fi re frica girzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are pleasingly acting type office and market workers can typically be classifiedly divided into two different groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so&#039;eroi xendo gasnu fi loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are first group type workers usually kind act to the set of those who are accompanying workers, and moderately friendly and helpful act to the set of those being sold to and/or the set of those being served.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi jursa je minde gasnu fi loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are second group type workers always intense-type pleasing and friendly and smiling and polite seeming act to the set of those being sold to and/or the set of those being served, and often harshly or commandingly act to the set of those who are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa jinvi sera&#039;a loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are first group type workers superlatively important consider the feelings of the set of those who are accompanying workers, and often somewhat family-similar consider the set of those who are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi gunka po&#039;u ra cu gungri cmima jundi gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;These workers are work-group member(ly) attentive type workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi&#039;e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera&#039;a loi ckamu carmi ke pluka je sutra ke&#039;e gasnu gunka gi&#039;e ckamu vajni jinvi sera&#039;a le se cinmo be loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are second group type workers superlatively important consider the set of those that are goals of the company, and lazy and/or unfriendly consider the set of those that are less intensely pleasant-acting and/or less intensely fast-acting workers, and less important consider the feelings of the set of those that are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pisu&#039;o loi pamoi girzu gunka no&#039;u loi gungri cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po&#039;i ganxo bo cinba po&#039;a je ke drata gunka bradi ke&#039;e jinvi sera&#039;a loi remoi girzu gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Some of the set of those who are first group type workers, which incidentally are the set of those who are work-group memberly attentive workers, derogatively anus-kissers (figurative) and other workers&#039; type enemies consider the set of those who are second group type workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idiomatic English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Social critics like, for example, Erich Fromm, David Riesman and Arlie Russell Hochschild consider the emotional controlledness of employees a principal example of social unfreedom. They describe the compulsion to always be smiling and always act pleasingly. The books Escape from Freedom by From, The Lonely Crowd by Riesman, and The Managed Heart by Hochschild describe and criticize this artificial control of emotion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pleasantly acting office workers and salespeople can be classified in two different groups. Workers of the first group usually act kind to fellow-workers, and act moderately pleasing and helpful to customers and/or clients. Workers of the second group always act very pleasing, friendly, smiling, and polite to customers and/or clients, and often act harshly or bossily to fellow-workers. Workers of the first group consider their co-workers&#039; feelings most important, and consider often co-workers somewhat similar to a family. They are workers internally oriented to the work-group. Workers of the second group consider the company&#039;s goals the most important, and regard less pleasingly-behaving or less fast-acting workers as lazy or unfriendly, and consider co-workers&#039; feelings less important. Some of the first-group, or work-group internally-oriented, workers regard workers of the second group as ass-kissers and/or as enemies of other workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: The English uses a lot of idiom that must not be translated literally into Lojban, which is one way in which T. Peter stumbled. For example, &amp;quot;The Managed Heart&amp;quot; has nothing to do with &amp;quot;risna&amp;quot;, the Lojban word for &amp;quot;heart&amp;quot;, and a figurative marker must be used, or better yet, the tanru &amp;quot;krastu co cilmo&amp;quot;. T. Peter had also included &amp;quot;rutni&amp;quot; in his version of that title, based on the description of the book as describing artificial control of emotion. But the tanru &amp;quot;the artificially-controlled heart&amp;quot; sounds like a medical treatise on pacemakers. Always look at alternate in- terpretations of your writings. I believe that the Lojbanic communication philosophy should be: &amp;quot;A Lojban speaker is obligated to ensure against misunderstanding by any listener, including those from a culture other than that of the speaker.&amp;quot; If a message is not understood because of a speaker&#039;s inaccuracy, non-specificity, or cultural assumption, it is the speaker&#039;s fault.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A related problem was with the phrase near the end &amp;quot;ass-kisser&amp;quot;. The writer is not referring to a physical act - again a figurative marker is needed. But furthermore, in a culturally neutral language, you must NOT assume that even such as this is an insult. The mabla is mandatory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora went for minimum change in correcting T. Peter. If I had been translating the piece, I would have been less literal in the translation, describing the behavior which causes one to be labelled with this derogative in an original Lojbanic tanru. I believe that all idiom should be similarly re-expressed, unless a premium is being put on exact matches with the original, in which case, Nora&#039;s solution is acceptable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You-all have the right to disagree with me, of course, on these matters. I&#039;m not running this show, the Lojban community is. So comments are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A Syllogism by Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;translated by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro da poi na mulno leka melbi claxu ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is complete in quality beautiful-lack are innately capable of being located at a visitor-amused room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se jadni lo silna cu mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is adorned with some salt is complete in quality dryness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi na mulno leka na cilmo ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is not-complete in property non-moistness is innately capable of being located at a visitor-amused room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is-a-washing-machine is located at a sea-edge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jemna cu mulno leka melbi claxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is made from some shell-gems is complete in quality beautiful-lack.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi se stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is located at a sea-edge is adorned with some salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s expansion and correction:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leflogji nabmi ci&#039;a la lu,is. keral. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Symbol-logic problems, written by the one called Lewis Carroll.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo&#039;e stidi lenu ke&#039;a selru&#039;a co nibypoi. .i lo se nibli cu se facki ko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: The following are sets of not-abstract statements, such that, incidentally, someone suggests the-state-of their being-assumptions of-type logical-entailment-sequence. The logical conclusions are to-be-discovered by you (Imperative!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o muremo&#039;o tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic; (52) {&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamai ro da poi na mulno leka claxu loika melbi cu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;1. Each something which is not whole in the quality of lacking Beauty is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-located-at a visitor-amusing room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije remai no da poi se jadni lo silna cu su&#039;oroi mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 2. No something which is-adorned-with some salt is at-least-some-times complete in quality dryness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije cimai no da selcu&#039;i .ei co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa gi&#039;enai mulno leka na cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 3. No something is-a permitted-thing (Obligation!) of-type retainedly-located-at a visitor-amusing room and-not [as well as not] is-complete in quality of non-moistness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 4. Each something which is-an-immerser-machine is-always retainedly-located-at a sea edge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije mumai no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 5. No something which is-made-from some shell gem-crust is complete in quality of lacking Beauty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije xamai ro da poi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu&#039;i se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 6. Each something which is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge will-be-capable-of-and-have-already been-adorned-with some salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ru&#039;u roda dacti .ije ly .abu. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li&#039;u .ije ly by. du lu&#039;elu jinru minji li&#039;u .ije ly cy. du lu&#039;elu se jadni lo silna li&#039;u .ije ly dy. du lu&#039;elu selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi li&#039;u .ije ly .ebu. du lu&#039;elu se zbasu fi lo calku jemna pilka li&#039;u .ije ly xy. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka sudga li&#039;u seisa&#039;a ri mintu leka sudga .ije ly ky. du lu&#039;elu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: (I assume!) Each something is a thing. (and) a = symbol-for &amp;quot;is complete in quality of lacking Beauty&amp;quot;. (and) b = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-an-immerser-machine&amp;quot;. (and) c = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-adorned-with some salt&amp;quot;. (and) d = symbol-for &amp;quot;is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge&amp;quot;. (and) e = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-made-from some shell gem-crust&amp;quot;. (and) x = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-complete in quality of non-moistness&amp;quot; [editorial metalinguistic statement not really there: this (the quality of non-moistness) is the same as the quality of dryness.] (and) k = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-lo- cated-at a visitor-amusing room&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o danfu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: (Observative!) Answers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i muremo&#039;o ni&#039;ida&#039;uku ro da poi jinru minji cu na se zbasu fi le calku jemna pilka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(52) Necessitated by the-distant-preceding statements, each something which is-an-immerser-machine is-not made-from some shell gem-crust.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Note, that in this translation, I had to improvise a way of expressing &amp;quot;[...]&amp;quot;, or an indication of text omitted. We will probably add a discursive for this, which will be more explicit than the method I used in this translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
And the original is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Symbolic Logic, by Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sets of Concrete Propositions, proposed as Premises for Sorites. Conclusions to be found.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Everything, not absolutely ugly, may be kept in a drawing-room;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing, that is encrusted with salt, is ever quite dry;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing should be kept in a drawing-room, unless it is free from damp;&lt;br /&gt;
# Bathing-machines are always kept near the sea;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing, that is made from mother-of-pearl, can be absolutely ugly;&lt;br /&gt;
# Whatever is kept near the sea gets encrusted with salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Univ. &amp;quot;things&amp;quot;; a = absolutely ugly; b = bathing machines; c = encrusted with salt; d = kept near the sea; e = made of mother-of-pearl; h = quite dry; k = things that may be kept in a drawing-room. [Bob: note that I didn&#039;t translate the &amp;quot;things that&amp;quot;, which shouldn&#039;t have been there.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Answers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52. Bathing machines are never made of mother-of-pearl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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The Open Window by Saki, translated by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Struck-through words in the Lojban text are elidable terminator cmavo that are not required for grammaticality, but may have been included for clarity to the reader, or for stylistic reasons. Their inclusion does not change the meaning of the text. The first paragraph has been marked in accordance with our suggested directions, as an example of the procedure. The first few paragraphs of the English have been parenthesized to show Lojban bridi sub-sentences in the re-translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mele kalri canko ci&#039;a la sakis. vau&lt;br /&gt;
Pertaining to the open window, written by the one called Saki.&lt;br /&gt;
The Open Window, by Saki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o lu lemi rirme&#039;i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl. li&#039;u se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u noi ke&#039;a li pamu cu nanca .i lu .ei do troci lenu do cabi&#039;ibaxipa renvi lenu mi jikca li&#039;u se bacru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[ni&#039;oni&#039;o &amp;quot;lu [lemi rirme&#039;i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl.] li&#039;u&amp;quot; se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u noi &amp;lt;ke&#039;a li pamu cu nanca &amp;gt;] [.i &amp;quot;lu [.ei do troci lenu {do cabi&#039;ibaxipa renvi lenu {mi jikca}}] li&#039;u&amp;quot; se bacru]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My parental-sister will-shortly low-go, O Mr. Nuttel.&amp;quot; is uttered by the polite, socially-comfortable young-woman such that (she is 15 years in duration). &amp;quot;(Obligation!) You attempt that (you now-till-later1 survive (my socializing)).&amp;quot; is uttered.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My aunt will be down presently, Mr. Nuttel,&amp;quot; said a very self-possessed young lady of fifteen; &amp;quot;in the meantime you must try and put up with me.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn.natl. goi fo&#039;a troci lenu cusku le drani poi ke&#039;a cu ge cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u gi nake jikca xlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i .i secau lenu fo&#039;a cusku kei fo&#039;a senpi lenu le porsi nu jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei cu sidju le xanka ve mikce poi fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[.i la fremtn.natl. =goi= fo&#039;a troci lenu {cusku le drani poi &amp;lt;ke&#039;a cu ge [cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u] gi [nake jikca xlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i]&amp;gt;}] [.i secau lenu {fo&#039;a cusku kei} fo&#039;a senpi lenu {le porsi nu {jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei} cu sidju le xanka ve mikce poi [fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce]}]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton Nuttel (he6) tries (to express the correct thing which is (both (expressingly-pleasing to the right-here-now sibling-daughter), and (not socially-bad for the future-right-here parent-sister))). Without (his6 expressing [it]), he6 doubts that (the sequential social-rite visiting to previous not-meeters helps the anxiety-conditions-treated-for which (he6 tries (to-be-treated-for))).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton Nuttel endeavored to say the correct something which should duly flatter the niece of the moment without unduly discounting the aunt that was to come. Privately he doubted more than ever whether these formal visits on a suc- cession of total strangers would do much towards helping the nerve cure which he was supposed to be undergoing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lu ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini li&#039;u lefo&#039;a goi le go&#039;i ku mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu fo&#039;a ca binxo co bredi lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi .i lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu .i ledo ni xanka kei cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu ranji badri .i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi pu jikca se penmi mi .i su&#039;o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u pu mutce pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;ni&#039;o [&amp;quot;lu [ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini] li&#039;u&amp;quot; le &amp;lt;fo&#039;a =goi= le go&#039;i ku&amp;gt; mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu {fo&#039;a ca binxo co bredi lenu {xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi}}] [.i &amp;quot;lu [do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu] [.i ledo ni {xanka kei} cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu {ranji badri}] [.i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi &amp;lt;pu jikca se penmi mi&amp;gt;] [.i su&#039;o ri cu (sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u) pu mutce pluka] li&#039;u&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(I suppose!) I know your future-around-yonder situation.&amp;quot; his6 (the subject of the last sentence&#039;s) sister had- previously uttered with-motive-that (he6 was simultaneously a becomer of-type prepared-for the-event-of (dweller-going- to the past2-there rural secure-places)). &amp;quot;You will-there socialize-not and not talk-to at-least-some living-persons. Your amount-of (nervousness) increases caused-by being-(continually-sad). (Actually!) (Obligation!) I will give to-you the meeter-knower-letters to each of those-there persons which (socially-were-met-by me). At-least-some of-them (those- there persons) (This statement is true by-standard-of my remembrances) were much-pleasant-to.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I know how it will be,&amp;quot; his sister had said when he was preparing to migrate to this rural retreat; &amp;quot;you will bury yourself down there and not speak to a living soul, and your nerves will be worse than ever from moping. I shall just give you letters of introduction to all the people I know there. Some of them, as far as I can remember, were quite nice.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la fremtn. puxiso&#039;e pensi lu xu la mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu poi fo&#039;a dunda fi ke&#039;a fe pa le pemdjuxa&#039;a ku&#039;o cu cmima lei pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton pastmostly thought &amp;quot;Is it true that Mrs. Sappleton, the woman such-that he6 gives her one-of-the meeter- knower-letters, is-a-member-of the pleasant?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton wondered whether Mrs. Sappleton, the lady to whom he was presenting one of the letters of introduction, came into the nice division.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu xu do pu penmi so&#039;i le viza prenu li&#039;u preti fi le tunbyti&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu ri ca pajni leni na sance jikca kei le banzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Is-it-true-that you met with many-of-the close-to-here persons?&amp;quot; is-a-question-by the sibling-daughter motivated-by she (the sibling-daughter) simultaneously judges the-amount-of non-sound-socializing to-be the sufficient one.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Do you know many of the people round here?&amp;quot; asked the niece, when she judged that they had had sufficient silent communion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i ji&#039;ino prenu li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu lemi mensi puviza xabju la REKtoris. pu le puzi nanca vomei .i ra pu dunda su&#039;o pemdjuxa&#039;a befe su&#039;o le viza prenu li&#039;u .i romoi jufra bacru ci&#039;o lenu selbirti xenru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is true that (met-with) nearly-zero persons.&amp;quot; is uttered by Framton. &amp;quot;My sister previously-close-to-here inhabited the Rectory, before the recent-past year-foursome. She (my sister) gave at-least-some meeter-knower-letters-to at- least-some-of-the close-to-here persons [to me].&amp;quot; (Observative.) Last-sentence utterer with-emotion the certainly-true regretting.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Hardly a soul,&amp;quot; said Framton. &amp;quot;My sister was staying here, at the Rectory, you know, some four years ago and she gave me letters of introduction to some of the people here.&amp;quot; He made the last statement in a tone of distinct regret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ju&#039;e do djuno le ji&#039;inomei xu lemi rirme&#039;i li&#039;u ranji jmina preti se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(I conclude!) You know the nearly-nothingsome (Is this true?) about my parental-sister,&amp;quot; is a continuingly-additional question utterance by the polite type-of socializingly-comfortable toung-woman.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Then you know practically nothing about my aunt?&amp;quot; pursued the self-possessed young lady.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i lo su&#039;emei po&#039;u lera cmene .e lera judri li&#039;u tugni se danfu le vitke .i fo&#039;a pensi kucli lenu la mezyz.sepltn. goi ko&#039;u cu speni gi&#039;a mroselspe .i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi&#039;e pe le kumfa cu stidi leka nanmu xabju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is so (knowing-about) at-most-a-little-some which-is someone-earlier&#039;s (her = &#039;my parental-sister&#039;) name and her address,&amp;quot; agreeably answers the visitor. He6 is-thinkingly-curious-about Mrs. Seppleton (her5) is married and/or deadly-bespoused. Something that is not-capable of-type being described and which-pertains-to-the room suggests man- inhabitant-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Only her name and address,&amp;quot; admitted the caller. He was wondering whether Mrs. Sappleton was in the married or widowed state. An unidentifiable something about the room seemed to suggest masculine habitation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu leko&#039;u goi ra banli betri cu fasnu puca le pu nanca be li ci seisa&#039;a se cusku be le citno .i la&#039;edi&#039;u balvi lenu ledo mensi vi xabju li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her5 which is the-one-referred-to-earlier grand tragedy occurs before-during the past-years-duration of number 3 [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: expressed by the young one]. This (the occurance) is in-the-future of your sister here-inhabiting.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her great tragedy happened just three years ago,&amp;quot; said the child; &amp;quot;that would be since your sister&#039;s time.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ki&#039;a leko&#039;u betri vau li&#039;u preti fi la framtn. .i ki&#039;u da fo le vive&#039;a surla nurma stuzi fa lei betri cu simlu lo fange&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Clarify: Her5 tragedy?&amp;quot; is-a-question by Framton. Justified by something, under-conditions-of the here-area relaxingly-rural place, tragedies seem-to-be strange things.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her tragedy&amp;quot; asked Framton; somehow in this restful country spot tragedies seemed out of place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu&#039;i ma mi&#039;a rinka lenu leva canko cu ranji le kalri kei le mela aktobr. lecysoltei li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u noi ke&#039;a ca farja&#039;o le barda fasyvroca&#039;o noi lamji le saurfoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Probable-that you are being-curious about the-state-whereby: for-what-motive me-and-others cause (the there-window continuing-as the open one) under-conditions the October late-sun-time interval.&amp;quot; is-uttered-by the sibling-daughter, who-incidentally she is direction-showing the large french-door-window which-is-incidentally adjacent-to the grassy- field.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;You may wonder why we keep that window wide open on an October afternoon,&amp;quot; said the niece, indicating a large French window that opened onto a lawn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .i&#039;e leni glare cu zmadu lo&#039;e ni ca citsi glare seisa&#039;a se cusku be la fremtn. .i ji&#039;a xu le va canko fi da ckini fe le betri li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(Reluctant acceptance!) The amount of warmth is more than the-typical amount-of present-season-warmth [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: expressed by Framton.]. Also-is-it-true: the there-window, by some relation, is-related-to the tragedy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is quite warm for the time of the year,&amp;quot; said Framton; &amp;quot;but has that window got anything to do with the tragedy?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu tai lenu va canko pagre ku cazi le satci cibnanca purci ku ko&#039;a goi ge leko&#039;u speni gi leko&#039;u re citno bruna cu cliva zukte fi le leca djedi ku terdanti nunkalte&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;By method of the there-window passing-through, right-at-the-time-of the exactly three-year before thing, they1, who are defined as both her5 spouse and her5 two young-brothers, leavingly-acted-with-purpose-of the the-then-day&#039;s projectile-firing event-of-hunting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a ko&#039;a noroi xruti .i ca lenu ko&#039;a cu ragve klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko&#039;a selneirai ke cpirsnaipe katstu kei ro le cimei cu se ri&#039;usrutu&#039;o lo nurcau rancimderke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;They1 themselves1 never returned. (They never returned themselves.) During the event of their1 across-going via the softly-moist-dirt field to their1 be-fond-most type of bird-snipe hunter-site, each-of the three-some is restrainingly-surrounding-swallowed by a secure-without softly-most-dirt-cavity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ca le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa sei se djuno se&#039;u loi stuzi poi ke&#039;a cu snura ca lei drata nanca cu suksa je nalseljde nalsarji .i leko&#039;a xadni cu noroi se facki .i la&#039;edi&#039;u kufrydukti pagbu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;During the in-the-past comfortably-opposite and rainy summer (it is known) places which they are secure during other years are suddenly and not-warnedly non-supporters. Their1 bodies are never discovered. That (that their bodies are never discovered) is the uncomfortably-opposite part.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u goi fo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;is uttered by the sibling-daughter which defines she7.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le voksa be le citno cazi binxo co ckaji leka jikca kufra na.e leka ci&#039;orja&#039;o co dirsre remna .i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The voice of the young one sometime-near-this becomes of-type characterized by socially-comfortable-ness-not and emotion-showingness of-type interruptingly-erringly human. She7 utters &amp;quot;Pitied Parent-Sister always believes that they1 will return themselves1 during some future day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;They1, incidentally accompanied by the small and brown Spanish-dog (spaniel) that it is lost associated-with-event- of it accompanying them1, are walkingly-going to this-here inside via that-there window in-manner-of the past of theirs1. This (the walkingly-going) is-the-reason-for the window open-continuing during each of the evening-parts which-are until-the night-become-time-intervals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Pitied-And-Liked Parental-Sister (her5) was-habitually talking to me about the nature of leaving which- incidentally-is of-the-process-of both {her5 spouse (him2) accompanyingly-possessing his2 white, water-not- penetrating, cover-coat, which-incidentally hangs-from his2 arm} and Ronnie, who-is her5 young-most brother (him3), singing, &amp;quot;O Bertie, with-what-motive, you leap?&amp;quot; which-incidentally always is-sung motivating the amusing-annoyance of her5, and motivated-by her5 asserting that the singing annoys her5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Yes - that was all one sentence. The English would be equally confusing to someone who didn&#039;t know the language. This one took a lot of work on Athelstan&#039;s, Nora&#039;s, and my part, to get it to both parse and match the English. Hopefully, few Lojban speakers will talk in the manner of this young lady. Given the difficulty of the sentence, let me show it properly grouped according to our method (Using subscripts in a sentence that is this complex may help you keep track of the pieces. While I&#039;m not doing it, you can even subscript the sumti within each bridi so as to keep track of them.:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i =goi= ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u {cliva} =ne= pu&#039;e lenu {1ge &amp;lt;1leko&#039;u speni =goi= ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi &amp;lt;2ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka&amp;gt;2&amp;gt;1 gi &amp;lt;3la ranis. =po&#039;u= leko&#039;u citrai bruna =goi= ko&#039;i cu sanga &amp;quot;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u&amp;quot; noi &amp;lt;4roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu {zdifanza ko&#039;u} ku mu&#039;i lenu {ko&#039;u xusra lenu {le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u}}&amp;gt;4&amp;gt;3}1]&lt;br /&gt;
Did that help? No? Oh well! It will eventually make sense.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ku&#039;o mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(Know the-referent-of-this-statement!) At-least-some-times, during breeze-without, quiet, evenings that they (the evenings) are-similar-to this, I almost-always thinking-withoutly-opine-that the-event-of each-of-them will walkingly-penetrate that-there window.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Out through that window, three years ago to a day, her husband and her two younger brothers went off for their day&#039;s shooting. They never came back. In crossing the moor to their favourite snipe-shooting ground they were all en- gulfed in a treacherous piece of bog. It had been that dreadful wet summer, you know, and places that were safe in other years gave way suddenly without warning. Their bodies were never recovered. That was the dreadful part of it.&amp;quot; Here the child&#039;s voice lost its self-possessed note and became falteringly human. &amp;quot;Poor Aunt always thinks that they will come back some day, they and the little brown spaniel that was lost with them, and walk in at that window just as they used to do. That is why the window is kept open every evening till it is quite dusk. Poor dear Aunt, she has often told me how they went out, her husband with his white waterproof coat over his arm, and Ronnie, her youngest brother, singing, &#039;Bertie, why do you bound?&#039; as he always did to tease her, because she said it got on her nerves. Do you know, sometimes on still, quiet evenings like this, I almost get a creepy feeling that they will all walk in through that window--&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o fo&#039;e sisti tai lo cmalu nu desku .i la fremtn. surlybi&#039;o va&#039;o lenu le rirme&#039;i cu so&#039;irzu&#039;edzukla le kumfa nenri tai lo gunma be loi xernuncru pe mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u lerci lenu ko&#039;u klama ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She7 ceases in-the-manner-of small-shaking. Framton relaxingly-becomes under-conditions-of the parent-sister many- act-walk-going to the room-inside in-the-manner-of a mass of Regret-utterings which-are motivated-by her being late at going here.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She broke off with a little shudder. It was a relief to Framton when the aunt bustled into the room with a whirl of apologies for being late in making her appearance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu zdile do li&#039;u se bacru ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope Vera has been amusing-to you.&amp;quot; is-uttered-by her5.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope Vera has been amusing you?&amp;quot; she said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ra capu carmi cinri li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The earlier-referent (she) has-been intensely-interesting.&amp;quot; is uttered by Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;She has been very interesting,&amp;quot; said Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza le kalri canko seisa&#039;a sutra se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i lemi speni ce bruna goi ko&#039;a cu zvati le selxa&#039;u bazi leinu seldantysazri .i ko&#039;a roroi nerkla fo ta .i ko&#039;a pu bartu ca lei cimynalsai foldi seni&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a ba galfi fi lo naljinsa kalsa fe lemi selke&#039;i lolbu&#039;u .i simsa leka medo po&#039;u loi nanmu kei vau xu li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope that you are-not-annoyed-by the open-window [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: quickly-is-uttered-by Mrs. Seppleton]. My {spouse, brothers} (they1) are-at the-place-of-habitation immediately-after the projectile-firer-operations. They1 always in-come vi&#039;a that-there. They1 were outside during the moist-non- supporting-fields logically-necessitating-that they1 will modify, into non-clean chaos, my pitied floor-cloth. (Observative!) Similar-to the-qualities which pertain-to you-who-are-Man. (Is this sentence true?)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope you don&#039;t mind the open window,&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton briskly; &amp;quot;my husband and brothers will be home directly from shooting, and they always come in this way. They&#039;ve been out for snipe in the marshes today, so they&#039;ll make a fine mess over my poor carpets. So like you menfolk, isn&#039;t it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u gleki rajyta&#039;a fi leinu seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so&#039;umei .e leka cumki loi datka ca le dunra .i ga&#039;a la fremtn. goi fo&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u curve ka nalpu&#039;a .i fo&#039;a camtcu je su&#039;episo&#039;emei bo snada troci lenu fo&#039;a galfi lenu terta&#039;a kei lo mroru&#039;i ckamu nu terta&#039;a .i fo&#039;a sanji lenu lefo&#039;a selvi&#039;e capu su&#039;episo&#039;umei jundi kei .e lenu leko&#039;u kanla ru&#039;i midyctarmu&#039;u fo fo&#039;a fi le kalri canko .e levu saurfoi .i fo&#039;a birti lenu lefo&#039;a vitke pe ca leca betri nacykefydei cu xlafunca cunkemdimnyfau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She5 happily continue-talks about the projectile-firer-operations and the bird few-some-ness and the possibility of Duck during the winter. To-observer Framton (he6), this (the happily-continue-talking) is pure unpleasantness. He6 intensely-needs, and at-most-mostly succeedingly, tries that he6 modifies the subject-talking-about into some dead- spiritually-less subject-talking-about. He6 is-conscious-of his6 host has-been at-most-a-little attending and her5 eyes continuously middle-look-moving from him to the open window and the-yonder grass-fields. He6 is certain that his6 visit that is-during the-present tragedy year-recurring-day is a-bad-luck random-type-of-fate-occurance.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She rattled on cheerfully about the shooting and the scarcity of birds, and the prospects for duck in the winter. To Framton it was all purely horrible. He made a desperate but only partially successful effort to turn the talk onto a less ghastly topic; he was conscious that his hostess was giving him only a fragment of her attention, and her eyes were constantly straying past him to the open window and the lawn beyond. It was certainly an unfortunate coincidence that he should have paid his visit on this tragic anniversary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu lei mikce cu tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo lonu mulno surla .e lonu menli ci&#039;ordu&#039;e claxu .e lonu mi rivbi roda poi simsa lonu vlile slugu&#039;a li&#039;u nuzba fi la fremtn. noi ke&#039;a cu jinvi le su&#039;episo&#039;imei kampu jifselkri po&#039;u lenu loi roroi penmi .e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be lei terbi&#039;a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka je velmikce .i lu sera&#039;a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni li&#039;u se mi&#039;acru fo&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The doctors agree with themselves that they treat me by complete-relaxing and mental emotional-excess being-without and my avoiding all-somethings which are-similar-to violent muscle-working.&amp;quot; is-news according-to Framton, who opines the at-most-much-somely-common false-belief which-is-that Never-Meeter and Once Chance-Meeter is news-hungry-for all small- details of the illnesses and their (the illnesses) causes and treatments. &amp;quot;Pertaining-to my eater-plan, the much- earlier-mentioned not-muchly-agree&amp;quot; is additionally-said by him6.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The doctors agree in ordering me complete rest, an absence of mental excitement, and avoidance of anything in the nature of violent exercise,&amp;quot; announced Framton, who laboured under the tolerably widespread delusion that total strangers and chance acquaintances are hungry for the least detail of one&#039;s ailments and infirmities, their cause and cure. &amp;quot;On the matter of diet they are not so much in agreement,&amp;quot; he continued.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu xu na go&#039;i li&#039;u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi&#039;o lo voksa poi cazi basti lo nalselcni nunva&#039;u .i ko&#039;u suksa lenu binxo lo cikna jundi .i go&#039;i mu&#039;inai le se bacru be la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Is-it-true-that not-this (the not-much-agreement) is so.&amp;quot; is uttered by Mrs. Seppleton, using a voice that just-then replaces a not-interested breath. She5 is sudden in becoming an alert-attender. This (the sudden becoming) is not- motivated-by the utterance of Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;No?&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton, in a voice which only replaced a yawn at the last moment. Then she suddenly brightened into alert attention -- but not to what Framton was saying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ko&#039;a vize&#039;o klama ca .uo ku seisa&#039;a se laucru be ko&#039;u se&#039;u cazi le tcatytei .i .ienaipei ko&#039;a simsa zo&#039;e poi ke&#039;a cimdre se gacri ji&#039;e le kanla li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;They1 here-approachingly come now (Completion!) [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is- loudly-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton], just-at the tea-time. (Don&#039;t you agree?) that they1 are-similar-to some-thing(s)- unspecified such-that they moist-dirtily are-covered up-to-limit the eye(s).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here they are at last!&amp;quot; she cried. &amp;quot;Just in time for tea, and don&#039;t they look as if they were muddy up to the eyes!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. piso&#039;umei desku ri gi&#039;e carna zu&#039;i le tunbyti&#039;u sekai leka firsku poi se djica fo&#039;a lenu cusku leka ci&#039;orkansa jimpe .i le citno cu caicta da pe vije&#039;oza le kalri canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco lefo&#039;e kanla .i sekai leka lenku jenca co velskicycau nunte&#039;a ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi&#039;e catlu fa&#039;a le se go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton a-bit-ly shakes himself and rotates-around the-typical-axis in-the-direction-of the sibling-daughter, characterized-by facial-expressive-ness which is-desired-by him6 for expressing emotionally-together-with understanding- ness. The young one intense-looks at something a-medium-ways-beyond-the-location-of the open window, characterized-by the nature-of a confused quality of fear-extreme being-shown-by her7 eyes. Characterized by cold-shockness of-type description-without fear, Framton turns on-axis the sat-upon and looked in-the-direction-of it (that which is intensely- looked at by the young one).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton shivered slightly and turned towards the niece with a look intended to convey sympathetic comprehension. The child was staring out through the open window with dazed horror in her eyes. In a chill shock of nameless fear Framton swung round in his seat and looked in the same direction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i va&#039;o le manbi&#039;o vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko&#039;a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai le canko .i roda po&#039;u pa le cimei cu bevri lo terdanti seni&#039;a leda birka .i pa le cimei cu mi&#039;arbe&#039;i lo blabi kosta noi dandu leri janco .i lo tatpi ke bunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko&#039;a jafti&#039;e .i sekai leka sancau ku ko&#039;a jbibi&#039;o le zdani .i lo ruble je citno voksa cu sagysku ra&#039;i lei manku fe lu mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;In environment the dark-becoming evening, three human-forms (they1) walkingly-come via the grassy-field towards-near the window. Each-something which-is one-of the three carries a gun which-has-underneath its arm. One-of the three additionally-carries a white-coat, which hangs from its (the one-of-the-three&#039;s) shoulder. A tired type-of brown Spanish-dog simultaneously near-there continues-at-being their1 foot-behind thing. Characterized by sound-without-ness, they1 near-become to the nest. A weak, young, voice singingly-expresses, from-source the dark, &amp;quot;I said &#039;O Bertie, with- what-motive, you leap?&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;In the deepening twilight three figures were walking across the lawn towards the window; they all carried guns under their arms, and one of them was additionally burdened with a white coat hung over his shoulders. A tired brown spaniel kept close to their heels. Noiselessly they neared the house, and then a hoarse young voice chanted out of the dusk: &amp;quot;I said, Bertie, why do you bound?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo&#039;a grana .e lefo&#039;a mapku .i le zdacravro .e le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane folbimvro cu kandi selzga velplu sepa&#039;u lefo&#039;a xalni nu ze&#039;o bajra .i lo relxilma&#039;e sazri noi ke&#039;a klama fo le dargu cu bai nerbi&#039;o le spabi&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu zu&#039;i rivbi lo bazi nu janli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton wildly-grasps his6 rod and his6 cap. The nest-front-door, the small-rock car-route, and the front field-wall- door, dimly observed route-points which-are-parts-of his6 panicky away-running. A two-wheeled-vehicle operator who is going along the road forcedly inside-becomes the plant-wall motivated-by the typical-one&#039;s avoiding of an imminent collision.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton grabbed wildly at his stick and hat; the hall door, the gravel drive, and the front gate were dimly noted stages in his headlong retreat. A cyclist coming along the road had to run into the hedge to avoid imminent collision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu vi stuzi mi&#039;a doi lami dirba seisa&#039;a se bacru be le bevri be le blabi cavykosta be&#039;o noi ke&#039;a nerkla fo le canko se&#039;u noi ke&#039;a piso&#039;imei cimdre selgai .i ku&#039;i piso&#039;e le cimdre cu sudga .i ma sukybajykla le bartu ca lenu mi&#039;a vi klama li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here sited are me-and-others, O My Dear.&amp;quot; [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered- by the carrier-of the white rain-coat, who in-comes via the window], who are much-ly moist-dirt-ly covered. In contrast, most-of the moist-dirt is dry. What suddenly-runningly-goes to-the outside during me-and-others at-here coming?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here we are, my dear,&amp;quot; said the bearer of the white mackintosh, coming in through the window; &amp;quot;fairly muddy, but most of it&#039;s dry. Who was that who bolted out as we came up?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu fo&#039;a goi lo traji nalfadni nanmu po&#039;u la mestr. natl. cu go&#039;i seisa&#039;a se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i pu tavla fi leri nunbi&#039;a .enai lo drata gi&#039;e sukli&#039;a secau lo litli&#039;avla .a lo xervla ca lenu do vi klama .i lakne jinvi lenu fo&#039;a pu viska lo ru&#039;ipre li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(He6 who is) a most not-ordinary man who is the-one-called Mr. Nuttel did (suddenly-runningly-go) [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton]. (Observative!) Talked about his (Mr. Nuttel&#039;s) illnesses and-not another-thing, and suddenly-left without &amp;lt;some polite-leaver-words or some regret-words&amp;gt; when you at-here come. (Observative!) Probably-opinion-holder that he6 saw a spirit-person.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;A most extraordinary man, a Mr. Nuttel,&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton; &amp;quot;could only talk about his illnesses, and dashed off without a word of good-bye or apology when you arrived. One would think he had seen a ghost.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku cu mukti seisa&#039;a seke smaci&#039;o bacru le tunbyti&#039;u .i fo&#039;a fi mi skicu fe lenu fo&#039;a camte&#039;a loi gerku .i paroiku fo&#039;a seke jersi kalte vazaive&#039;a lo mrofoi pe vi le ri&#039;emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerku girzu .i fo la&#039;edi&#039;u nitcu fa fo&#039;a fe lenu caze&#039;a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke&#039;a va&#039;o lenu lei gerku ca gekyki&#039;a gi&#039;e jdecisma gi&#039;e sputu vau ve&#039;ijega&#039;u fo&#039;a .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I suggest that the Spanish-dog motivates [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered- by-quiet-utterer the sibling-daughter]. He6, to me, described that he intense fears Dog. Once, he6 is chasingly- hunted, near-into-over-a-medium-interval a dead-field which-is at the river-beside of the Ganges, by a wild-dog group. Under these (being chasingly-hunted) conditions, needed he6 to during-through the-night to stay right-in a newly-dug dead-hole in-environment the dogs then dog-crying and warn-smiling and spitting in-small-area-and-above him6. These (the events just described) suffice-for all someones to panic.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I expect it was the spaniel,&amp;quot; said the niece calmly; &amp;quot;he told me he had a horror of dogs. He was once hunted into a cemetery somewhere on the banks of the Ganges by a pack of pariah dogs, and had to spend the night in a newly dug grave with the creatures snarling and grinning and foaming just above him. Enough to make anyone lose their nerve.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i leka finti loi cizra lisri ze&#039;i lo cmalu temci cu ka fo&#039;e se certu steci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The quality of inventiveness in bizarre stories smally-within small-time-intervals, is-the-nature-of her7 expert- special-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Romance at short notice was her speciality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
from Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In lesson 4A, page 9, your usage is not only illogical and ultimately ambiguous, but based upon analogous English structures which are just as ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is possible to make sentences in Lojban that are grammatically valid but semantically meaningless: mi klama lobridi. A meaning might be conceivable for this sentence, but would it have any relevance? The point I am trying to make is this: For the Lojban grammar to be valid, all sumti must be treated equally. (the &#039;symmetry principle&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Commencing further, we must assume that any sumti must have the same grammar after a sumti tcita cmavo, because the grammar must transcend meaning in order to be unambiguous. You have used the sumti tcita cmavo in a way that violates those standards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently - according to your usage - there are two distinct ways that a sumti can be treated after &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;. The first way is to define the tagged sumti as being an event temporarily relative to the modified bridi. In other words, the modified bridi is &#039;marked&#039; as occurring before, after, or at the same time as the tagged sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other way is to treat the tagged sumti as having some kind of implicit structure parallel to that of the modified bridi. An example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which is assumed to be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tagged sumti is presumed to be parallel to the x1 sumti of the same bridi. But this leads to some problems. Look at the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu le ritli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we treat this sentence as being analogous to the first example, above - and we must do this to maintain the wall between semantics and grammar - then we must assume it to be elliptically representing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu lenu le ritli cu klama&lt;br /&gt;
I go before the ritual goes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to some confusion. We could imagine a ritual going somewhere - a collection of people which I&#039;m describing as a &#039;ritual&#039; going to some destination from some location, etc. But this is not what I&#039;m trying to say. I mean that my act of going occurs before the ritual OCCURS (not &#039;goes&#039;). I am not suggesting anything about the motion of the ritual, but &amp;quot;mi klama pu le ritli is clearly open to that interpretation based upon your usage. How do I know when there IS an implicit structure and when there is NOT one?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only way to remove this ambiguity without adding new cmavo to represent implicit parallel structures is to use &#039;full&#039; phrases such as &amp;quot;mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&amp;quot; instead of the unstable logic of &amp;quot;mi klama pu la djan.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob responds: Of course Greg is right. The examples on that page and a couple places elsewhere in Lesson 4 are malglico. &amp;quot;mi klama pu la djan.&amp;quot; must mean that &amp;quot;I go before &#039;the thing called John&#039; occurs&amp;quot;, which is an unlikely statement though potentially meaningful. Greg&#039;s proposed alternative, &amp;quot;mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&amp;quot;, is a correct phrasing, though not the only one. You need to study Lesson 5 to get the shorter &amp;quot;mi ne pu la djan. klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I, before John, go.&amp;quot;). Another, nearly identical statement is: &amp;quot;mi .ebabo la djan. klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I, and later John, go.&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg&#039;s argument of symmetry is not relevant. Symmetry is an aesthetic principle, not a linguistic one. Most languages fail the symmetry test, and we have not made it a factor in Lojban design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, all questions regarding the interpretation of a grammatical string in Lojban are considered semantic questions. Lojban is grammatically unambiguous in that its grammar, defined as the set of rules that generate all valid strings, is so constructed that no string can be generated by two different applications of the rules. Loj- ban&#039;s grammar is not defined as a transformational grammar, and sentences that mean the same thing are semantically equivalent, not grammatically so. Thus my last expression of his example, using &amp;quot;.ebabo&amp;quot; is not grammatically equiva- lent to the others, even if semantically so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notwithstanding all this, Greg, who asked this question within a few weeks of receiving the lessons, has contributed by finding an error that others with more experience have missed. This is why 75 of you have the lessons already, before we publish the textbook. We need your help to catch our errors and confusing explanations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You needn&#039;t be expert in the language to point out that something doesn&#039;t make sense to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg asked a couple of other questions in his letter. He asks about the interpretation of such sentences as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi viska le nanmu vi lei so&#039;i tricu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I see the man among the-mass-of many trees.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He asks whether this means that the observer is in the trees, the man, or both. The answer, implied by the same argument he used above, is that the event of seeing takes place in the trees (which probably but not necessarily implies that both are there). The other interpretations are expressed as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi viska le nanmu ne vi lei so&#039;i tricu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I see the man who is among the-mass-of many trees&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi ne vi lei so&#039;i tricu cu viska le nanmu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I, among the-mass-of many trees, see the man.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is also covered in Lesson 5, though I&#039;m not sure how clearly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg also asks how to translate something such as &amp;quot;The sun moves across the sky.&amp;quot; which is a false statement in our physical world, but is apparently true to a non- educated observer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a couple of answers to this one. The &#039;observational&#039; discursive &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot; indicates that the statement is made as a result of personal observation. This could be made explicit as &amp;quot;mi zgana lenu le solri cu klama fo le tsani se ragve&amp;quot; (I observe that the sun is a go-er via route the sky acrossed-thing.) which puts the movement in a &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; clause; these latter are slippery in truth determination, since anything using the article &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; refers to something by description. If I describe a cat sitting in my lap as &amp;quot;lenu le solri cu klama fo le tsani se ragve&amp;quot; in the above statement, the statement is true if I observed the cat in my lap, and the sun is totally irrelevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A third way, which avoids such nonsense, is to use &amp;quot;simsa&amp;quot; as the selbri, to make the apparentness explicit. Then it doesn&#039;t matter whether you use &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lonu&amp;quot; to describe the sun&#039;s motion - the claim is the appearance of the motion, not the motion. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; from various people on &#039; &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had a variety of comments on the &#039;, which fall into two categories. Most such remarks ask us to drop it, or use the letter &#039;h&#039; to stand for it. Indeed we do so in the machine grammar, which is written according to C program- ming language conventions. Not surprisingly, all of those who have proposed deleting the &#039; are C programmers. One of the arguments raised is in fact that C doesn&#039;t consider the &#039; to be alphabetic. It has also been pointed out that the &#039; is used to represent a glottal stop in Arabic, which is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to convey with the mark in Lojban (you cannot put a pause or a glottal stop where an &#039; occurs between two vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several arguments for our current practice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The &#039; is a buffering sound which is not a consonant insofar as the morphology is concerned. For people (as opposed to computers) to learn the language, it is nice to have the generalization that cmavo are of the forms CV, CVV, and CV&#039;V. Since most people (as opposed to computers) think of &#039;h&#039; as a consonant, using &#039;h&#039; would make these basic patterns harder to recognize, and the rule harder to teach.&lt;br /&gt;
# Since &#039; is a buffering sound that is primarily a pronunciation guide, it should look like the other pronunciation guide lerfu, which are . and , Remember that none of these are punctuation marks.&lt;br /&gt;
# If we used &#039;h&#039;, people would get the idea that you can use it for Lojbanizing any English &#039;h&#039;, anywhere you can use any other letter. This is also not true. &#039; can only go between two vowels. Thus Michael Helsem&#039;s name must be Lojbanized as xelsem. or .elsem. and not as *&#039;elsem. The reason why we left &#039;h&#039; out of the regular Lojban alphabet is that there are many languages, including French, where the sound will not be heard except possibly between two vowels. We also have to avoid confusion with the similar &#039;x&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Note that, if a native language speaker has difficulty with the &#039;h&#039; sound, they are permitted to use another non-Lojban unvoiced consonant instead; the most likely such choice is the /th/ of &amp;quot;thistle&amp;quot;. There have been questions as to why we do not have this sound in our alphabet. One reason is its relative infrequencies among non-English languages; the other is this use as an alternative to &#039;h&#039; for &#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Actually, since the Arabic alphabet is not the Roman alphabet, the glottal stop in Arabic is not represented by an apostrophe - although indeed the Arabic letter looks like one. On the other hand, the Greeks, who after all invented the word, use the apostrophe for none other than the &#039;rough breathing&#039; sound, and in a roughly similar context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other issue affecting the &#039; is its effect on stress syllable determination. Tommy Whitlock, who was involved in our original decision to add the &#039;, has proposed that the two syllables divided by an &#039; be treated as one syllable for determining penultimate stress. He reasons that we were using the &#039; primarily to create a recognizable diphthong of sounds that normally are not stable as diphthongs. Thus &amp;quot;a&#039;a&amp;quot;, without the &#039;, would be indistinguishable from &amp;quot;a&amp;quot; in some contexts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tommy is right about the original motive for &#039;, but Nora, Athelstan, and Bob are all opposed to this change. One reason is that it is a change to the baseline to fix &amp;quot;what isn&#039;t broken&amp;quot; - there is no clear problem with what we have. More importantly, it has been pointed out that stressed syllables would not necessarily be any easier to say, or to pick out of the speech stream, and in fact, the change could result in unstable phonetics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The advantage would be in recognizing a word like &amp;quot;ga&#039;unrai&amp;quot; (gah-HOON-rai) = &amp;quot;highest&amp;quot;, where the stress on the /&#039;un/ syllable makes the components unrecognizable. By Tommy&#039;s proposal, the /ga&#039;u/ would be treated as a single syllable for stress determination (GAH-HOON-rai); both &#039;syllables&#039; would be equally stressed. The advantage is also its disadvantage. Linguistically, it seems likely that Tommy&#039;s &amp;quot;ga&#039;unrai&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;gaurai&amp;quot; (GAUN-rai)= &amp;quot;doing- most&amp;quot; would be likely to degenerate together. Even worse would be a word like &amp;quot;ci&#039;abra&amp;quot; (shee-HAH-brah) = writing- apparatus, which would be pronounced (SHEE-HAH-brah) under Tommy&#039;s proposal. I find it difficult to say this word, stressing both adjacent syllables, and not turn the final vowel into that English nemesis, the schwa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Debate is welcome on these points, and other proposals are welcome, too. However, better justification will be required in order to increase enthusiasm for a potential change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How Many gismu Does Loglan Need? ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Jeff Prothero&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note: Jeff&#039;s original used a lot of jargon from earlier periods in Loglan history; I have updated these terms to the current Lojban words to minimize confusion on his key points. However, it is clear that Jeff is attempting to make a statement not just limited to our Lojban efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan was crafted in the 1950s. Like any good craftsman, Jim Brown looked at the best designs he knew of (European languages and logic notation, mostly), took the intuitively pleasing features from each, and tried to combine them to produce something workable. The result could fairly be characterized as the first human language worth criticizing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Three decades later, craftsmen have largely been replaced by engineers, who are inclined to replace rule-of-thumb imitation by design and analysis from fundamental principles whenever possible. If human language design were an engineering discipline, what fundamental principles would language engineers work from? What sort of characteristics would they try to optimize? How close to optimum are current designs? Let&#039;s take a shot at imagining how such an engineer would tackle a specific issue such as design of the gismu vocabulary. Even more specifically, what is the optimum number of words in such a vocabulary?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any sort of precise analysis requires some precise assumptions, typically oversimplified and somewhat arbitrary. We need to decide what the function of the gismu vocabulary is, and what measure we are trying to optimize. Let us concentrate on the rafsi system, and suppose that the purpose of the gismu vocabulary is to provide the building blocks for the lujvo vocabulary: Loglan&#039;s thousand-odd gismu serve to provide mnemonic names for the tens of thousands of words which (will eventually) form the working vocabulary of the loglanist. For lack of a better idea, we may suppose that the criterion to be optimized is the time required for a student of the language to learn the gismu vocabulary, and we may further assume that this learning time is proportional to the number of words in the gismu vocabulary. That is, we assume that, everything else being equal, the fewer gismu the student has to learn, the better. How many gismu do we really need?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, we need a clear notion of the function of the gismu set. What&#039;s in a name? In a word: a mnemonic. A loglan lujvo certainly does not define the concept it labels, but is does classify that concept. The set of gismu do not constitute a basis vector set spanning concept space, but they do provide a Dewey Decimal System cataloguing concept space. In essence, the gismu set provides a coordinate system for concept space. The lujvo name we assign a loglan concept does not identify the exact position of that concept in concept space, but it does identify the general area it lives in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That seems to answer the qualitative question of what the gismu set does, but leaves in its wake a corresponding quantitative question: How fine a map of concept space do we need? This is an empirical question, and demands an empirical answer. One way of approaching this is by exam- ining the current loglan vocabulary, which represents the result of a practical investigation of this question stretching back at least as far as Basic English, with its vocabulary of approximately 850 words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The overwhelming majority of loglan lujvo contain two rafsi selected from a gismu list of roughly 1000 choices. 1,000 * 1,000 = 1,000,000 -- the current gismu set is used to map concept space into about a million regions. Another line of evidence comes from the game of Twenty Questions, in which player A is allowed twenty yes/no questions to identify something selected in advance by player B. Countless hours invested in this game have settled on twenty questions as a fair number to identify an arbitrary object. Twenty yes/no questions (twenty bits of information) suffice to distinguish two to the tenth objects, suggesting a concept space of size 1,048,576. Clearly, the agreement of these two lines of reasoning to within four percent is due more to chance than skill! But this same agreement does give us some confidence that the required resolution of our map of concept space is on the order of one million regions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So we have reduced our question to: How many gismu are needed to map concept space into one million distinct regions? We presume the map is built by assigning each gismu some portion of concept space, and then intersecting these regions. The answer turns out to depend on how we pick our gismu. The smaller your tiles are, the more tiles it takes to tile a given room. In vaguely similar fashion, the more specific each gismu is, the more gismu you need to provide the required million regions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without getting too far into information theory, we can note that the ideal solution consists of twenty mutually orthogonal gismu, each (like yin/yang) covering about half of concept space. By allowing all combinations of these twenty gismu, we would generate the required million potential lujvo. Each lujvo would, on the average, contain half (ten) of the gismu, so the current concatenate-the-gismu style of lujvo construction would not be practical -- if each gismu were assigned a Consonant-Vowel sequence, the average lujvo word would run to ten syllables! This is a trivial problem -- it is easy to construct a positional bit-string encoding which will reduce the average lujvo to two syllables.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The interesting problem is finding a satisfactory set of twenty lujvo. Each must be much more general than any of the current set of lujvo -- each must cover about half of conceptual space. The Chinese (?) concept of yin/yang is a good starting point. Everything, but everything, seems to be either yin or yang, about half each way. One needs twenty such concepts, linearly independent of each other. The current set of 1000 gismu can be used as a development tool: One needs to find twenty concepts, each of which is TRUE of about half of the current gismu and FALSE of the remainder. These twenty concepts must be independent: given any two concepts A and B from the set, about a quarter of the 1000 current gismu should satisfy both A and B, about a quarter should satisfy A but not B, and so forth for the other two combinations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If anyone makes any progress toward constructing such a twenty-gismu set, I would be delighted to hear about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the meantime, we at least have a solid quantitative claim to make for loglan: its gismu list is at most fifty times harder to learn than is logically necessary!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Prothero&lt;br /&gt;
221 SW 153rd #194&lt;br /&gt;
Seattle, WA 98166 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Alas, I think Jeff is seeing making much from coincidences. The reason why about 1000 gismu exist in Lojban, Basic English, etc., is very simple; it is the round number closest in size to that of the &#039;basic&#039; vocabulary needed to get by minimally in any foreign language, and thus demonstrated in history as being a reasonably learnable number of root words. To some extent also, there is feedback between word-lists. If someone generates a longer list, there is pressure to explain why there are more words needed than in the previous lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff&#039;s analysis of semantic space as a bunch of categories, each with its own word, has been proposed by many people, but is not universally accepted as a paradigm. Words may be needed for larger areas of semantic space as well as smaller ones, and these spaces may need to overlap. But such an analysis is arguable as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The argument may be put more forcefully: while most individuals can use 20 questions to narrow down a concept in the game, this is a round number and hence to be reasonable. 10 questions is clearly too small; 30 would be too large. I note that probably no person actually has a vocabulary of 1 million words though. It is only when you take the union of words used by all speakers of a language that you get much larger than 1 million, especially when jargon words are included. There are more than 1 million words in English. In fact there are more than 1 million species of plant and animal, so words for these alone would exceed Jeff&#039;s limit, but they aren&#039;t in use by everyone. (In fact, &#039;20 questions&#039; has unwritten rules about speci- ficity of concept and use of jargon.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if there were exactly (1020) concepts in the semantic space, this does not mean that 20 gismu would suffice. People divide some areas of semantic space more finely than they do others, because human endeavor is not a uniform spectrum. Thus there is probably no orthogonal set that would come close to achieving what Jeff has in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something similar has been attempted. Paul Doudna has reported on &#039;Wordtree&#039;tm, a published attempt with less than 100 gismu roots and their opposites. Every word in the list is expressed as a compound of two simpler ones. It&#039;s neat to trace out the composition of a fairly concrete term - you&#039;ll find the string to be hundreds of components long. But not practical, and the decomposed root set doesn&#039;t in the least suggest the result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But even if it were possible to devise 20 orthogonal roots for all of language, Jeff&#039;s proposed compounding method fails the test of language. Yes a computer could bit-encode and generate short composites. But human beings can&#039;t. Lojban rafsi are easily recognizable as to what they represent; Jeff&#039;s composites would need to be analyzed carefully to pick them apart to the roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jeff has done a reductio ad absurdum on the centuries-old philosophical attempt to a priori divide the universe into categories (the basis for all of the world&#039;s artificial languages that are a priori systems). Lojban is a priori only to the extent it had to be in order to be independent of culture. Efficiency was not, and should not be, the goal; lest Lojban fall below some minimum level of redundancy needed to make human communication feasible.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is a human language; let it remain one.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mini Grammar Lessons ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Space and time will, by necessity make these discussions abbreviated, but we have noticed some consistent problems among students and correspondents trying to write in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On du &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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On &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;: avoid it - like the plague. DO NOT TRANSLATE THE ENGLISH IS AS &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;. The cmavo stands roughly for a mathematical equal sign, and you don&#039;t go strewing equal signs around your English prose, do you?&lt;br /&gt;
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Almost always, the English &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; marks the following word as the main &amp;quot;predicate&amp;quot; if English were a predicate language. Lojban is, so make that word or phrase the selbri. Then translate the &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; as either &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; depending on whether you have a good reason to specify present or simultaneous (with the event of the previous sentence) tense. (Unnecessary tense expression should also be avoided in Lojban; it seldom is relevant to meaning.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In text, &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; has use only to define a word or phrase. In a self-introduction: &amp;quot;mi du la bob.&amp;quot;, you are defining &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;. You can also use &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; to define anaphora such as &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; - it&#039;s the only way to do so when you have only studied the first couple of lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
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Otherwise, almost always, one sumti of a &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; bridi will be a quoted word or string, or a lerfu. See my version of the Carroll syllogism for an example of this.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On cu &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is a separator. It doesn&#039;t mean anything (when I said just now to translate &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, I did so because of grammatical role, not because of meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
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In a simple sentence, there will be no more than 1 &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; in the sentence, immediately before the main selbri. In fact, there will always be one there, implicitly. The rules say that you can elide (leave out) &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; if it doesn&#039;t cause ambiguity. Only experience will tell you all the times when such elision is possible, so when in doubt leave it in.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; does not occur between sumti. It does not occur after the selbri to separate it from the following sumti. The following sumti is always identifiable by either an anaphora pronoun or a descriptor like &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, so no separator is needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is very useful. Given its very limited role in the sentence, it can be used to close off some of the most hideously complex grammatical constructs before the main selbri, and to do so completely unambiguously. in fact, that is why it is in the language: to make it easier for a reader or listener to find that all important selbri that indicates just what the speaker is trying to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; does occur elsewhere in a sentence, IF the sentence is complex. Most Lojban expressed by the more advanced students tends to be run at a 2nd or 3rd level of iterative complexity, so this may happen quite frequently. When does it so occur?&lt;br /&gt;
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When a sumti in a sentence internally includes a sentence either as a relative clause (&amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;, or as an abstracted clause (lexeme NU), that internal sentence is a bridi just like the main sentence. Thus it may need a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; to mark its selbri. This is how you get more than one &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; in a sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, &#039;natural&#039; Lojban expression, sumti in relative and abstract clauses tend to be of simpler construction (e.g. anaphora or simple descriptions) than sumti in the main sentence. This is why Lojban tends to stop at 2nd or 3rd orders of complexity. Anything more complex tends to play spaghetti with your brain. (Translations of English tend to run 3 or 4 levels deep in complexity if you try to match the style as well as content; English writers tend to use complex run-on sentences - see the monstrosity in Saki for an example with 5 levels of complexity. If style isn&#039;t critical to the translation, break it up into digestible chunks.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Normally, if you are reading or listening in a sumti, running into the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; tells you the sumti is over and you are moving on to the selbri. In a complex sentence, it is nearly as simple. If you are in the middle of a complex NU abstraction or relative clause and you run into a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, just ask yourself: &amp;quot;Have I run into the main selbri of this clause yet. If not, the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; marks the clause of the selbri. If so, then you&#039;ve ended the sumti, popped out to the next lower level of complexity, and repeat the question. If you get out to the main sentence, you have found the main selbri. This is easy once you get the hang of it, believe it or not. &lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On ke &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is used mostly in tanru, and overrides left- grouping. Normally, Lojban constructs, including tanru, are left-grouping. This is convenient, since most tanru you come up with will make more sense when left-grouped. But in the occasional event of right-grouping, you need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Using schematics to make things easier, assume that the letters in the following stand for brivla in a tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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Normally, a tanru &amp;quot;a b c d&amp;quot; will group as &amp;quot;((a b) c) d&amp;quot; for modification purposes - this means that &#039;a modifies b&#039; and you determine the meaning of the two-place tanru &amp;quot;a b&amp;quot;. You then use the tanru as a modifier to c, forming a new tanru. Finally the meaning of this 3-place tanru serves as a modifier to d.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now if the tanru you want to express doesn&#039;t fit this nice pattern, you may need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Relatively common in a 4- place tanru is the grouping &amp;quot;(a b) (c d)&amp;quot;, where you are really making two tanru to express different ideas that are non-simple, then using those pieces to make the more complex tanru. An example might be &amp;quot;zoology textbook&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Zoology&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;animal-science&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;textbook&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;student- book&amp;quot;. The combined tanru is &amp;quot;(animal-science)-(student- book)&amp;quot;, but by left grouping, you would get &amp;quot;((animal- science)-student)-book&amp;quot;. By using &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle, you get the grouping you want: &amp;quot;danlu saske ke ckule cukta&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;(a b) ke (c d)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; wouldn&#039;t be needed, though, if the right pair in the tanru were made into a lujvo; you now have a left-grouped &amp;quot;(a b) c&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;danlu saske cu&#039;ecku&amp;quot; works fine without &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Consider making any the right side of a right-grouped con- struct into a lujvo; they usually are natural candidates for doing so, and it eliminates the need for the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Don&#039;t use &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; when you don&#039;t need to. It flags in your reader/listener&#039;s mind that you are doing something abnormal. If you then have only a single word after the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; you will confuse your listener, even though it is grammatical to use &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; with a single brivla after it - so don&#039;t do it.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is like a left-parenthesis grouping marker. Note that there is a right marker for &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, which is &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot;. (Those with lessons will have &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;; this was changed after they were written. Change these to &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; in your copies, as you find them, but only where they are closing &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in tanru.) &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; is almost never seen. Even when you do need non-left grouping, the right side typically is a simple pair, or a left-grouped triple - thus the &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; would go at the end of the whole tanru. You can always put these final &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; in. But they seldom provide any useful information to the listener/reader - so don&#039;t. The only time you should use ke&#039;e in a 4-place tanru is in the grouping &amp;quot;(a ke(b c))ke&#039;e d&amp;quot;, where without the &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; you would have &amp;quot;a ke((b c) d).&lt;br /&gt;
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You can&#039;t use a &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; without a matching &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; preceding it. Not grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
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On a related point: if, in a tanru, you need a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot; clause that involves only a single brivla, or even a simple tanru, this is a prime candidate to make into a lujvo. For example, in my version of the Carroll syllogism, I had the tanru &amp;quot;visitor-amusement-room&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;amusement&amp;quot; is the event abstraction of &amp;quot;zdile&amp;quot;. If I had not made the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; event into a lujvo, the tanru would have been &amp;quot;vitke nu zdile kei kumfa&amp;quot; where the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; is needed to close off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; so that it doesn&#039;t absorb the &amp;quot;kumfa&amp;quot; (and any trailing sumti) into the abstraction. I get rid of the kei by making a lujvo &amp;quot;nunzdi&amp;quot;, resulting in the simple left-grouping &amp;quot;vitke nunzdi kumfa&amp;quot;, which is much easier to read and understand. Only rarely should you leave &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; surrounding a single brivla - its not fair to the listener/reader.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that all these elidables and combinables might be explicitly expressed in longer form to obtain a certain rhyme or meter in poetry - &amp;quot;nu zdile kei&amp;quot; would be different in both rhyme and meter effects from &amp;quot;nunzdi&amp;quot;. This is probably the only case where long forms are justifiable.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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One of the more pervasive problems is the exchange of these words with each other. The &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; series is a sumti, the &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; series is part of the tense construction and is used to inflect a selbri or as a sumti tag. Do not use &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; as a sumti - it is not grammatical: &amp;quot;*mi klama vi&amp;quot; does not mean &amp;quot;I am-coming-here.&amp;quot;; however &amp;quot;mi klama ti&amp;quot; does work for this, presuming that you in some way indicate where &#039;here&#039; is - an accurate translation that clarifies this would be &amp;quot;I am-coming to this-here.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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The opposite situation is where more errors occur. &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can confuse if you assume it is always a translation for &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;le ti cukta&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;this book&amp;quot; - you are leaving out the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; from the translation, which should be &amp;quot;the this book&amp;quot;. You might use this if there are books in two boxes (and hence not visible to be pointed at). You could then point to one box and say &amp;quot;ko cpacu le ti cukta&amp;quot; - get this thing&#039;s book. The &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; in such a position is like a possessive; compare with &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;my book&amp;quot; or, more accurately, &amp;quot;the me book&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
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To express &amp;quot;this book&amp;quot;, you wish to mark the book, a brivla, with a location. So you use &amp;quot;le vi cukta&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;the here-book&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le va cukta&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;the there-book&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ll address one other issue with &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, in a moment.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On po&#039;e, po, pe, po&#039;u &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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These four words are used to attach sumti to another sumti in such a way as to provide additional information, aiding the listener/reader to know exactly what that first sumti is referring to. They are members of lexeme &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;, and the right sumti is followed by a normally elidable &amp;quot;ge&#039;u&amp;quot;. If found in a complex construction, these bind with the closest sumti. Thus &amp;quot;le mapku .e le grana po mi&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the cap, and the rod-of-mine&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; has nothing to do with &amp;quot;le mapku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The last two have non-restrictive counterparts, ne and no&#039;u, when you want to relate the second sumti to the first as incidental information not needed for identification of the first sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
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These four words are the Lojban expressions of possession. Yes, I know I just said that &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; is a possessive. But &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; is IDENTICAL in meaning to &amp;quot;le cukta po mi&amp;quot; - with no qualifications. One translates as &amp;quot;the me book&amp;quot;, the other as &amp;quot;the book of mine&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Let us first dispense with &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot;, which is the &#039;identity possessive&#039;. (This is changed from the published lessons which used &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;. Change all &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; and all &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; in your lessons. Then change all &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; and all &amp;quot;mo&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. These will be found in Lessons 5 and 6 only.) &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; indicates another identity for the sumti it is attached to, hopefully giving more information to listener to help in identifying the sumti. Thus, if two people (Jill and John) in a room are both doctors, you could say &amp;quot;le mikce po&#039;u la djil.&amp;quot; to indicate &amp;quot;The doctor who-is the one named Jill.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; almost always translates as &amp;quot;who-is&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;which is&amp;quot;. It may also be viewed as a contraction of &amp;quot;poi du&amp;quot;, although the latter would have a different elidable terminator on the right side of the right sumti, if one is required.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other three are more like our familiar possessives. Unlike English, incidentally, none of the Lojban possessives inherent implies legal ownership. &amp;quot;le cukta po mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; says only that there is some unspecified relationship between &#039;me&#039; and &#039;the book&#039;. The germane brivla for &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;steci&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;is-specific-to&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;ponse&amp;quot; &amp;quot;possesses&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; are best described in relation to the non-specific &amp;quot;po&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; specifies a close relationship, one that is permanent or inalienable. Your mind is inalienably yours. Your experiences are also inalienably yours. So you can say &amp;quot;le menli po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; instead of the weaker &amp;quot;le menli po mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le mi menli&amp;quot;. Quite often, if &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; is called for in usage, you will find that there is a place in the brivla reserved for the relationship. You can say &amp;quot;le birka po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;The arm of me.&amp;quot;, but it is preferred that you use the place structure provided for &amp;quot;birka&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;le birka be mi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; exists because you may not know the place structure (Oops!), or the left side sumti may not HAVE a place structure. Thus, if two mothers (Jane and Jill) have sons named John, you can say &amp;quot;la djan. po&#039;e la djein.&amp;quot; to indicate one of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; is, on the other hand, a looser relationship. The germane brivla is &amp;quot;srana&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;pertains to&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; is used to attach incidental identifying information. When visiting someone else and sitting in a chair there, someone might refer to &amp;quot;le stizu pe do&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the chair that pertains to you&amp;quot;. In a classroom with assigned seating, the teacher might use &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; instead: &amp;quot;le stizu po do&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the chair that is specific to you&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;, and its non-restrictive counterpart &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, are also used to attach any number of relative phrases providing identifying information marked with sumti tags, or even a bare &#039;tense/location&#039;. &amp;quot;le vi cukta&amp;quot; is equivalent to &amp;quot;le cukta pe vi&amp;quot;. In general, if there is a sumti tag, you should use &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. Thus the examples used in the discussion of Greg Higley&#039;s question above. (There could be exceptions - the colloquial English &amp;quot;the man of the hour&amp;quot; might be rendered as &amp;quot;le prenu po&#039;e ca&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le prenu pe ca&amp;quot;, indicating that the speaker expects that the person will inalienably always be associated with that time in the listener&#039;s mind.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of these words are symmetrical, which is why we say that Lojban has no true possessive in the same sense as English. In Lojban, you can say &amp;quot;le birka po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;mi po&#039;e le birka&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;I that am inalienably associated with the arm.&amp;quot;, or colloquially &amp;quot;the arm&#039;s me&amp;quot;; the reason for doing so would be if the listener would find it easier to identify you knowing that you were associated with &#039;the arm&#039;, presumably an arm that the listener already had identified. &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; work similarly, and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; obviously so. The assumption with the &#039;pV(V)&#039; cmavo in this set is that the listener doesn&#039;t know which of several possible interpretation of the left sumti the speaker is referring to, and the sumti attached will provide useful identifying information. For the &#039;nV(V)&#039; words, the reverse is true. The listener knows the referent of the left sumti, and the speaker is supplying a hitherto unstated associational information about that sumti, that is incidental to the main point of the statement.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== On go&#039;i vs. ti vs. di&#039;u vs. la&#039;edi&#039;u ===&lt;br /&gt;
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As stated above, &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; is not always translated as &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. The latter is used only when you can point to the referent or otherwise indicate it - this is why &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; is called a demonstrative.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, you will almost always translate the English &amp;quot;I&#039;m doing this, too.&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;mi go&#039;i&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; repeats the MAIN selbri of the previous sentence (not the last selbri, which might be in a relative clause or NU abstraction), carrying over all sumti, except those that may be replaced in the new sentence by new values, and carrying over the tense/location, unless replaced.&lt;br /&gt;
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But be careful! &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; has the grammar of a brivla. You cannot say &amp;quot;*go&#039;i fasnu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;This happened&amp;quot;. The Lojban, which is grammatical, is an odd tanru, whose meaning is dependent on just what &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to. To refer to the event of the previous sentence, you use &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, which literally means &amp;quot;the referent of the previous sentence&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u fasnu&amp;quot; correctly translates &amp;quot;This happened&amp;quot;. (You can also use &amp;quot;lenu go&#039;i&amp;quot;, which has similar meaning to &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, but is likely to require a closing &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; to avoid sucking any following sumti into the abstraction bri- di.&lt;br /&gt;
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But if you want to say &amp;quot;This is true.&amp;quot; about the previous sentence, you do not say &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u jetnu&amp;quot;. You&#039;ve fallen into the trap of reference vs. reality. &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; refers to the referent of the previous sentence, not to the sentence itself, which is &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot;, unsurprisingly, means &amp;quot;the referent of ...&amp;quot; attaching to a following sumti; it may be used like a computer language pointer, indicating the attached sumti points to or describes the thing you actually want to refer to.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully, these discussions clarify some problems you may have had. I&#039;ll find out when you send some Lojban text that uses them.&lt;br /&gt;
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== On Sapir-Whorf ==&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Report on LogFest ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Of the four who agreed to write reports on the extensive discussion of Sapir-Whorf last June at LogFest, only pc actually submitted one. For those not present, the discussion resulted from Ralph Dumain&#039;s comments back in JL6, and a further selection that he submitted for publication a few months later. The latter included a bibliography; this list seemed to be slanted towards a particular viewpoint, and omitted basic works like John Carroll&#039;s collection of Whorf&#039;s papers, and any reference to Sapir (I&#039;ve yet to have someone tell me where Sapir said things about SWH).&lt;br /&gt;
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Seeing a need for balance, and recalling Ralph&#039;s strong criticisms of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s scientific approach to SWH, I proposed a group discussion at LogFest. Ideally, we would have discussed JCB&#039;s statements on the subject from the new L1, but that book was not published before LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately I didn&#039;t get to participate in much of the discussion, so I asked the major participants to write up what happened. What follows is pc&#039;s perceptions of the session. Note that this report was written before pc had seen Loglan 1. He has given me only one comment in writing on the latter, which is also found below.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan, during the session, attempted to formulate an expression of Sapir-Whorf that reflected the consensus; this is also included here, although Athelstan didn&#039;t report on the group reaction to his formulation. So you get to react!&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; pc Reports &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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As for SWH, my memories of that session run something like this:&lt;br /&gt;
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The SWH session was devoted to two and a half questions: what is the hypothesis, or, better, what does Jim Brown take it to be, and could it be true. There was also some discussion of how the hypothesis might be tested, obviously tied to the first question.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those who have read Whorf or even Brown admitted that what they said was pretty unclear but the general characterization of the hypothesis to be something between a very weak view and a very strong one. The weakest view was that having a lexical item for a thing or property permitted a speaker to spot that property or thing more readily than a speaker without that item in his vocabulary. The strongest reading was that having a certain grammatical category in a language compelled the speakers of that language to conceptualize their world in terms of the onto- logical correlates of that grammatical category. The strengthening/weakening of the hypothesis seems to be done by replacement first of all between &amp;quot;enables a speaker to do better&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;compels a speaker to do&amp;quot; and then by referring to items at different levels of abstraction as governing: lexical item, conceptual class, construction, ..., grammatical category. Whorf wrote about both extremes and seems to have placed most emphasis on the strongest form - or the one just weaker - that the existence of a category made it easier for a speaker to conceptualize that way, or perhaps harder not to.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brown&#039;s position is less clear since not (at that time - there is said to be more in the new edition of L1) spelled out at any length (mirabile dictu!). What he does say seems towards the stronger end in involving grammatical categories (the importance of having only the category predicate in content words) but weaker in only postulating an enabling rather than a compelling character - but presumably enabling a speaker of the new language to do new things by breaking the compulsions (or at least tendencies) of the old. This was more inferred from the features that Brown stressed in his design of Loglan then form what he said directly about SWH, although he does also stress that his vocabulary is culturally neutral, looking also toward the weaker end of the spectrum of possible hypotheses. Another feature of Brown&#039;s view (which was not stressed in the discussion) is the role of metaphor, suggesting that one part of the hypothesis he is interested in is that the easier it is to bring two words into grammatical relationship, the easier it is to see connections between the two things they represent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the subject of truth [of SWH], the weakest hypothesis was generally held to be uninteresting because a truism, although some experiments said to aim at testing it were reported to have had results taken as non-confirming (monolingual English- and Russian-speaking children sorted objects by color in about the same way or did not differ in ways that matched nicely with differing color vocabularies, for example.) But there were some questions about just what those tests tested and so some talk occurred about how better tests might be devised (&amp;quot;better&amp;quot; - it turned out, meaning ones that confirmed the truism.) The strongest thesis was obviously more interesting but generally thought either clearly false or untestable. On the false side was the fact that, for example, nearly every discussion of process metaphysics has been in a heavily noun-adjective-verb language, which ought to force a static metaphysics. Of course, most of these discussions [of metaphysics] have also said that the reality they were pointing to was ultimately ineffable and beyond conceptualization, which might be evidence that the hypothesis is correct. (Most process metaphysics is also done in Indo-European languages, which can be taken - it is said - as being ultimately verb-based and so &amp;quot;really&amp;quot; pointing to a process conceptualization.) A large part of the notion that this hypothesis is untestable, was, then, derived from the fact that it was unclear how to tell either what the grammatical categories of a language really were and what the conceptualization/perception its speakers really had - as opposed to the way they expressed it in the language. The latter seemed especially an impossible task, since conceptualization is not usually accessible except through language (or so it seemed) and thus the test became circular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By and large, the Brown test (as we understood it) - to look for changes in behavior/conceptualization/personality (in a broad sense) when a new language is learned, to correlate with features of the new language - looked like as reasonable a test as was possible. The problem was, of course, what features of the new language were to be relevant and what are the appropriate correlates of these features? Brown&#039;s design of Loglan gives some clues to his ideas of appropriate features, as noted above, but what traits he would correlate with each was still unclear. Nor did anyone have any useful suggestions beyond those made in Ju&#039;i Lobypli at other times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I should note in passing that, like earlier more formal discussion of SWH in academic circles, our discussion generated much more heat than light, with some of even our mildest members becoming rather abusive to some of their opponents. I think we did manage to end amicably, however.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Athelstan&#039;s Formulation of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whorf says that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) occurs through the grammar, not the lexicon. Grammar is a pattern of increasingly complex relationships between words, and then groups of relationships between words, thus building a continuum of complexity from lexicon to grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Whorf&#039;s grammatical view is some-what correct, it may still be a semantic effect. In analyzing apparent SWH effects towards the grammatical end of the spectrum, semantics affects thought more subtly and less avoidably.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compare Marvin Minsky&#039;s view of intelligence as a progressively built complex of interactions between reactions, agents, and groups of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note: Athelstan has expanded upon this formulation into a more quantitative view of SWH than I have heard before. He has written this up in technical Lojban, and the result will be in JL11.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Discussion on Jim Brown&#039;s Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan 14th Edition ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;d like more opinions on what the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) is and how to test it. After the heated debate at LogFest, we were surprised that Jim Brown does not even refer to &#039;strong&#039; or &#039;weak&#039; versions of the SWH in&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan 1. It seems that Jim&#039;s views are orthogonal to that civilization&amp;quot; due to Chinese grammar and the &amp;quot;virtually classification scheme - which may be the most significant theoretical advance in Jim&#039;s formulation - he has changed the terms of the debate on SWH, perhaps in a direction less subject to philosophical and political posturing that pc reports has haunted SWH throughout its history.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim also discusses how he thinks SWH may be tested in L1. pc, Athelstan, and I have found the test he proposes to be scientifically invalid, but perhaps the seed of a more valid test.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following, from our longer review of L1, which the LK10 review was condensed from, discusses what Jim Brown proposes for the SWH and the Loglan test, and why we believe it to be inadequate. The text is not polished to the extent we would have liked, nor is it written in the apolitical, academically disinterested style we eventually adopted for the review; Athelstan and I have ruled out spending a lot more time on L1 for a while. But the ideas therein should stimulate thought among those of you interested in using Lojban to test SWH; they also should raise questions about the nature of experimental linguistic research in general - important if Lojban indeed is to be the cradle of experimental linguistics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== from Bob &amp;amp; Athelstan&#039;s Unabridged Review ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main discussion of the scientific rationale for the language takes place in the introduction and in the new Chapter 7 on &amp;quot;Testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&amp;quot;. The introductory section is lucid and presents the purpose of the language quite well. In Chapter 7, he then goes on to explore a variety of formulations of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis as he perceives it, and discusses the implications of these formulations for testing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In so doing he nicely avoids the controversial aspects of Sapir-Whorf, including the politically and philosophically issue of &#039;linguistic relativity&#039; that Ralph Dumain discussed in JL7, as well as the various attempts to divide the hypothesis into a strong and untenable form (that due to different language structures, people can never truly understand the culture of another language community) and a weak and trite form (different languages give different perspectives, so learning a new one broadens your mind).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The formulations he chooses as best exemplifying Sapir- Whorf are that &amp;quot;a pattern of relationships exists between the cultures of certain peoples and the structures fo the individual languages with which those cultures were associ- ated&amp;quot;, that &amp;quot;structural features of languages are seen by Whorf as limiting the domain of the possible for minds shaped by them&amp;quot; and (actually from American philosopher F. S. C. Northrup) &amp;quot;a facilitory one ... notational advances ... that replace other notations are facilitory&amp;quot;, or in other words, that a language with a more efficient or effective way of expressing certain kinds of ideas will cause its associated culture to be richer in the realms of those ideas. Dr. Brown cites the &amp;quot;enabling&amp;quot; effects of new mathematical notations, and the relative poetic richness and &amp;quot;deeply esthetic orientation of the Chinese limitless interplay of verbal categories&amp;quot; found in Chinese.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Brown then goes on to claim that Loglan can be used to test either of these formulations, and outlines a fairly detailed approach to such a test. Along the way, he points out that the nature of modern science is such that experiments must be designed to disprove a theory or model assuming that it is true, rather than to try to prove the model, and that scientific advance comes when such experi- ments lead to refinements of the model that allow it to more accurately describe reality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Brown also indicates that the &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; perceived by current loglanists are not scientifically useful, although he then goes on to use those effects as a means of identifying true &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; in a test population. This is but the first sign of several that Dr. Brown&#039;s remarkably cogent presentation of the hypothesis and the problems in testing it did not open his mind to countless problems that he did not see. The result is that his detailed experimental scheme is fatally flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few brief examples are needed; this section is the major new section of the book and covers an important part of the scientific justification for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, Dr. Brown suggests that a useful test of Sapir-Whorf can be conducted with second language learners, specifically American university students (not the most homogeneous of intellects or cultures) who study Loglan, French, and Chinese in a &amp;quot;Summer Workshop&amp;quot; &#039;total immersion&#039; environment. He then contradicts himself by deciding that this workshop should last 8 months for Chinese, 4 months for French, and two months for Loglan (he does not propose any standard for setting these times, like a pre- experiment to determine how long it takes to reach a measurable level of proficiency using the proposed teaching methods; nor does he recognize that time taken to learn a language may be unrelated to time needed to evoke &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; - the difficulty of Chinese is due more to its writing system and tones, while the grammar is relatively easy to learn - so &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; based on grammatical structure may show up relatively sooner).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the summers may be awesomely long in Gainesville (8 months?), but even so, few university students are going to be able or willing to take 8 solid months of their educational program to study a single subject, even for pay, unless that subject was their primary interest - and he has specifically excluded choosing students on the basis of their interest in the language. (Money doesn&#039;t motivate everybody, Jim!) Dr. Brown never really addresses the question of holding a disinterested subject&#039;s interest in learning a language (probably the toughest problem in foreign language education), except to hold out to the non- Loglan students the offer to teach them Loglan for free in a workshop the following summer. Wow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Somewhat surprisingly, he chooses to measure &#039;creativity&#039; as the area for detecting short-term Sapir-Whorf effects, and not the logical thinking that is the original basis for the language. This is actually a good choice; it is too likely that any attempts to measure development of logical thought over a short period will be colored by the teaching methodology used and the fact of actually teaching of logic, since most people are ignorant of logic, especially as it applies to their linguistic expression. He suggests that linguistic creativity be the basis for measurement, citing the &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, he never addresses the issue on a basis of cultural development. The tests he proposes measure individual creativity, and not cultural creativity. A far better test might be the comparative group solving of problems requiring significant creativity and linguistic interaction in the target language, and measuring either speed or quality of results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This example shows how Dr. Brown&#039;s elucidation, while in itself severely flawed, is useful in pointing to a better approach; the above alternative test was composed &#039;at the computer&#039; as this is written, merely on rereading the relevant section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another problem is Dr. Brown&#039;s failure to take into account the bias imposed by the teachers of these workshops. Recalling the difficulty in motivating disinterested students in learning a language, one cannot imagine trying to teach them Loglan without engaging in the type of word-play and linguistic experimentation that the experiment is supposed to measure. This would be especially heightened if the teachers are today&#039;s loglanists, as Dr. Brown proposes; we all recall what inspired our passionate interest in Loglan and would be unable to teach it to others without passing along that which we found inspiring. It is unlikely that Chinese and French teachers could be found that could emphasize the same mix of skills and interests as the Loglan teachers of this generation, and Dr. Brown, while addressing several other biases, does not appear to recognize this one in his at-tempt to convince people of the relative immediacy of a possible Sapir-Whorf test.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps the strongest evidence of Dr. Brown&#039;s inadequate analysis of the problem is his method of eliminating what he calls &amp;quot;host culture effects&amp;quot;. He chooses the three languages to be taught on the basis that French is a lot like English, while Chinese is different, in ways he presumes are like Lojban&#039;s (He never says why Lojban is more extreme than Chinese in ways that would increase linguistic creativity). He predicts that this comparison would cancel effects not due to the languages themselves,with succeedingly higher &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; in comparing French to Chinese to Loglan students. (He doesn&#039;t explain why this test couldn&#039;t be done with three natural languages first, if only to prove the methodology.)&lt;br /&gt;
To eliminate host country effects, he then suggests that French students be given the same program, with the expected results to be increasing from English to Chinese to Lojban. He also proposes a similar test for Chinese students, but never indicates the results that would be expected (which are indeterminate with regard to his method-ology, since English and French are supposedly equidistant from Chinese, while Loglan is an unknown difference from Chinese - presumably less, but skewed in a direction that would increase &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; as much the &#039;short distance&#039; would minimize them).  &lt;br /&gt;
For long-term effects, Dr. Brown proposes a five-year period of relatively low levels of monitoring and control. He indicates some of the difficulties of monitoring such long-term studies, but forgets the obvious one. Why would the students, by design not especially interested in Loglan to begin with, be expected to continue to grow in fluency and usage? Where is the &#039;cultural environment&#039; wherein they would interact to grow in this manner? If their lifestyle and interactions with others do not demand use of loglandic features that would generate &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; to be tested, such as logical competence, it is unlikely that any such effects will be noticed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As an comparative example, how many English speakers can identify the implications of a restrictive vs. a non- restrictive relative clause even a week after the grammar test, even though that is a structure basic to English grammar (as well as Loglan&#039;s). (One of our respondents indicates that most college graduates don&#039;t even clearly remember the difference between nouns, verbs, and adjectives, five years after college. This may indicate why many Americans can&#039;t write cogently, and why these parts of speech are blending together; e.g., using &#039;impact&#039; as a verb. Dr. Brown suggests, while discussing metaphor relations, that English and European languages may be evolving towards this loglandic ideal.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interestingly, Dr. Brown doesn&#039;t mention any testing implications related to the &#039;metaphysical parsimony&#039; that is a basic design principle of the language. What &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; might be expected by the optional tense approach? Dr.Brown doesn&#039;t discuss this, nor does he suggest a comparison with the Hopi language and culture that led Whorf to his hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These reviewers believe that Dr. Brown has made no case that suggests that Sapir-Whorf testing is plausible without at least second-generation bi-lingual speakers who can interact in a significantly loglandic environment. In fact, theproblems he foresees suggest that it is harder than originally perceived to isolate variables that would invalidate test results. However, by at least discussing the topic, after years of silence, Dr. Brown has made it possible for others to build on his work, perhaps solving the problems that seem to make a Sapir-Whorf test impractical in the near future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our conclusion is that Dr. Brown has made a start towards a Sapir-Whorf test strategy, but that his approach is academically weak. He embarrasses his &#039;advisors&#039;, including scholars noteworthy in the fields of linguistics, anthropology, and language education, by suggesting their presumed approval of this approach. It is little wonder that the NSF proposals in the mid-70s did not impress the linguistics experts that reviewed them, who were possibly more committed to a thorough peer review of the program than was Dr. Brown&#039;s team.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== from pc (John Parks-Clifford) ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised that Jim&#039;s discussion made no mention of the two big projects on the Whorf Hypothesis (WH) (and related stuff) held in the early 50&#039;s. Surely these conferences must have influenced him to think about the issue, if only indirectly. Moreover, they were the biggest (and so far as I can find, the only) major projects - government and foundation grants, great lists of top-ranking second-raters as participants - ever conducted on WH. All the fields involved went off in other directions shortly after the proceedings were published in 1954 and 1958. The most sharply focussed (on WH) was held at U/Chicago in March 1953 with a Ford grant. The papers and the discussions around them we reedited by Harry Hoijer (from whom I first got doses of WH) and published by U/Chicago Press in 1954 as Language and Culture. The other, at U/Michigan using grants from Rockefeller and Ford, ran through the academic year 1951-2. It&#039;s results, which start at WH but go far afield (a lot of philosophers involved in this one) were summarized by Paul Hanlein Language, Thought, and Culture published in 1958 by U/Michigan Press, reprinted in paperback in 1965. I haven&#039;t looked at either in 20 years, so I don&#039;t remember much about conclusions (except that they were generally negative, I seem to recall) or any details. Still, they seem like a good place to get through in any discussion of WH.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ko lifri le gleki ni&#039;ornanca&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_10_moi&amp;diff=124076</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 10 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_10_moi&amp;diff=124076"/>
		<updated>2020-08-13T00:43:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 11 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
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All rights reserved. Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 10 - November-December 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Ju&#039;i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as lalojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;. The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is separately published under the name le lojbo karni(LK). This issue was supposed to be produced in September, but the trip to Worldcon, our rapid growth, and time spenton legal work all have contributed to delays. This issue is now intended to be mailed with LK11, which will inciden-tally save us some postage costs. The added time also gave us a larger quantity of Lojban writings to choose from, andmore time to ensure that what we are printing is correct. We still intend to gain a month in publishing, but it will apparently not be until issue #13 that we will do so.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
There is no news section in this issue, since we are coming out with LK11. Our major content this issue is Lojban text(some 3200 words total), written by people other than Bob and Nora. The key Lojban text is Athelstan&#039;s translation of a short story named &amp;quot;The Open Window&amp;quot;, written by British author Saki. We want to encourage Lojbanists to seriously attempt to back-translate and read the Lojban on your own, and have printed it double-spaced, included some guidelines&lt;br /&gt;
on translating and reading, and also some word lists. You will have to deduce the meaning of tanru and lujvo on your own, though. We&#039;ve provided guidelines and word lists enough in past issues that most of you should be able to do this.&lt;br /&gt;
This issue also contains discussions of Lojban poetry forms by poet Michael Helsem and Athelstan, of various aspects of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and testing thereof, and some explanations of some cmavo that seem to be giving people trouble.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
						   Table of Contents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
News Notes						      ---2&lt;br /&gt;
On Lojban Poetry&lt;br /&gt;
   &#039;Skaldic Poetry and Lojban&#039; by Athelstan		      ---3&lt;br /&gt;
   Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms		      ---4&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
   Guidelines for Understanding	Unfamiliar Lojban Text	      ---6&lt;br /&gt;
   A Palindrome	by Michael Helsem; A Lojban Aphorism by	Michael	Helsem	   ---7&lt;br /&gt;
   Self-Description by T. Peter	Park			      ---8&lt;br /&gt;
   A letter to Marcia Greenough	by T. Peter Park; Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter	Park   ---8&lt;br /&gt;
   From	Genesis	by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
   An Original Science Fiction Story by	Jamie Bechtel	      ---9&lt;br /&gt;
   A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific	American by T. Peter Park    ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   Roswell, New	Mexico,	1947 by	T. Peter Park		     ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   A Short Lesson in Office Politics by	T. Peter Park	     ---10&lt;br /&gt;
   A Syllogism by Lewis	Carroll, translated by Sylvia Rutiser---11&lt;br /&gt;
   The Open Window by Saki, translated by Athelstan	     ---12&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska (in order listed above)    ---16&lt;br /&gt;
   Retranslation of The	Open Window by Saki, as	translated by Athelstan	   ---25&lt;br /&gt;
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Greg Higley; from various people	on &#039;	---32&lt;br /&gt;
How Many Primitives Does Loglan	Need?, by Jeff Prothero	     ---35&lt;br /&gt;
Mini Grammar Lessons: On du; On	cu; On ke; On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu; On po&#039;e, po, pe, po&#039;u;&lt;br /&gt;
   On go&#039;i vs. ti vs. di&#039;u vs. la&#039;edi&#039;u			     ---37&lt;br /&gt;
On Sapir-Whorf&lt;br /&gt;
   LogFest Report by pc	and Athelstan			     ---40&lt;br /&gt;
   Discussion on Jim Brown&#039;s Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan	1 4th Edition&lt;br /&gt;
      from Bob &amp;amp; Athelstan&#039;s Unabridged	Review		     ---41&lt;br /&gt;
      from pc (John Parks-Clifford)			     ---44&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mini-cmavo List	for use	in Translations			    insert&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News Notes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s been less than a week since LK11 went to the printer, but the Lojban world keeps moving. Bob did another radio interview on 11 December, with a British station: &#039;Atlantic 192&#039;. We&#039;ve received a copy of the San Francisco version of the Oldenburg article. It was somewhat truncated, so if we get to distribute the Washington Post version next issue, those who see versions in other papers may want to reread to see if they missed anything.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob now has a Usenet/Internet mailbox address, compliments of Eric Raymond, who has set up his Lojban network with about 60 names so far. Eric is a long distance call, and Bob won&#039;t be checking his mailbox very often, so Post Office  mail is more efficient. But computer files, Lojban text, and articles for LK and JL can be sent now tolojbab@snark.uu.net.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, Rick Harrison tells me that Alembic, listed in LK11 credits, is ceasing publication.&lt;br /&gt;
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== On Lojban Poetry ==&lt;br /&gt;
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We have comments from two people on the subject of Lojban poetry. Athelstan writes primarily on one form of poetry with which he is familiar: skaldic poetry. Michael Helsem writes in response to the brief comments I made in LK10 in describing the article by Athelstan.&lt;br /&gt;
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There is a question commonly asked of us, not really relevant to Lojban, which we can answer in connection with the following article. This is &#039;Does Athelstan have a last name?&#039;. The answer is both yes and no.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan&#039;s name comes from Old Norse; family names were not used for identification in that culture. Instead, surnames would be granted, generally by nobility, in recognition for some great or significant deed, somewhat after the manner of modern honorary degrees. In the absence of such an honor, different people with the same first name would be distinguished by their place of origin or trade, a practice that eventually led to our modern practice. Honorific surnames wouldn&#039;t be used in the same way as modern family names, but rather only in an appropriate context. Athelstan obviously has a place he was born, but he does not need this &#039;surname&#039; to distinguish him from others. How many other people do you know by the name of Athelstan?&lt;br /&gt;
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But, in addition to a locative surname, Athelstan has been rewarded (by appropriate authorities familiar with the tradition) with two different honorific surnames for noteworthy deeds in unrelated fields (Athelstan is a person of diverse talents). The stories are long, and perhaps I can talk Athelstan into writing of them (in Lojban) for later issues; he tells these stories quite interestingly, in the old bardic tradition. But in any case, he uses them only in the appropriate context. The following article is one such place, since one of his honorific surnames stems from his demonstrated mastery of skaldic forms. (T. Peter Park uses the other honorific surname in his description of the New York Lojban meeting, printed in LK11.) &lt;br /&gt;
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=== Skaldic Poetry and Lojban ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Athelstan B‚rfoetskald&lt;br /&gt;
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English speakers may be unaware of the wealth of possible forms of poetry that exist in the world&#039;s literature. Most English poetry is dominated by a single form, end-rhyme, in which the final word of each line rhymes with one or more other lines; the exact lines in a stanza which are paired or grouped in rhyme differ according the specific form, giving us such end-rhyme forms as doggerel, limericks, and sonnets. End-rhyme is often elaborated by requiring particular matching stress patterns in each rhyming pair or group of lines. End-rhyme has proven less interesting for modern poets, who abandon rhyme, stress pattern, or both to achieve a density or abstractness of expression uncon strained by form.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are many other possible forms, including forms that ignore rhyme and which count only stressed syllables (Germanic long-line, the form of Beowulf, is an example). In languages that do not have stress as a distinguishing characteristic of tone, the syllable count in each line is important. Japanese haiku is probably the most well-known of these forms; it requires no rhyme or meter; instead it has exactly three lines with 17 syllables in a 5/7/5 pattern, with the added requirement that it demonstrate a particular &#039;balance&#039; in harmony/disharmony of subject, sound, and meter.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of poetry&#039;s many forms, English end-rhyme does not seem especially suited for Lojban. This is but a guess, based on the limited number of gismu that rhyme and the lujvo architecture that limits the variety of ideas that will end in matching sounds. Many other poetic forms may be more apropos to Lojban&#039;s sound and word structures. In this article, I shall concentrate on the Norse alliterative poetry of the skalds, and in particular the drottkvaet, or court metre.&lt;br /&gt;
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First some definitions:&lt;br /&gt;
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The common unit of skaldic poetry is the strophe, or stanza, which consists of four lines, or eight half-lines. Unlike much of English poetry, these lines are usually not grammatically intact sentences or phrases - sentence structure is independent of line structure. In fact, such poetry often has several independent &#039;sentence&#039; thoughts going at once, with the harmony of sound helping the listener piece the structures together.&lt;br /&gt;
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Each line consists of two half-lines. There is an odd half-line with exactly six syllables, three of which are accented. Each odd half-line is followed by an even half- line, also with exactly six syllables, three accented. Unlike English end-rhyme forms, all alliteration and rhyme takes place in the accented syllables, or beats. I will for this discussion use the most common stress pattern, trochaic. That is, each beat is followed by an unstressed syllable.&lt;br /&gt;
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Two syllables alliterate if their initial sounds are alike: the words &#039;fight&#039;, &#039;far&#039; and &#039;phantasm&#039; alliterate. Any two syllables that begin with vowels also alliterate. In each line of skaldic poetry, exactly two beats in the odd half-line and the first beat in the even half-line alliterate.&lt;br /&gt;
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A full rhyme is one that shares the same vowel and final consonant sounds in one syllable: &#039;rat&#039;/&#039;cat&#039;, &#039;rut&#039;/&#039;cut&#039; and &#039;rough&#039;/&#039;cuff&#039; are full rhymes. A half rhyme differs from a full rhyme in that the vowel sound must be different: &#039;rat&#039;/&#039;cut&#039;, &#039;rut&#039;/&#039;cat&#039; and &#039;rough&#039;/&#039;cough&#039; are half rhymes. In each line of skaldic poetry, a half rhyme appears in exactly two of the three beats in the odd half-line, including the third beat. In the even half- line, a full rhyme appears in exactly two beats, also including the third, but the pattern need not be the same as in the odd half-line.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is an unfamiliar (and complicated) form to many, so I include here an English language example of a skaldic strophe. (It&#039;s not really supposed to have great meaning in it - this is only an example.) Please note that the last syllables of each half-line are unstressed and so neither rhyme nor alliterate. The alliterations appear in bold print, the full rhymes in italics, and the half rhymes are underlined. Vowel alliterations are marked with a bold period.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
  Sing with me a song of				   &lt;br /&gt;
     soaring birds and words that			   &lt;br /&gt;
  tell of hawks; The hall of				   &lt;br /&gt;
     heaven flows with prose of				   &lt;br /&gt;
  .owls	and .airborne furless				   &lt;br /&gt;
     .awful bats with hats on.				   &lt;br /&gt;
  Night	and day	are not	the				   &lt;br /&gt;
     nicest times for rhymes&#039; sound.			   &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Strophes were informally composed and recited singly or in pairs, but more formal occasions demanded the long lay, or drapa form. This consists of twenty or more strophes, partitioned into three or more parts by a chorus of one, two or four lines which ended a strophe or stood alone.&lt;br /&gt;
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Skaldic poetry often used a figurative metaphor known as a kenning, whose canonical English form is &#039;x of the y&#039;. For example, &amp;quot;steed of the waves&amp;quot; is a kenning for &#039;ship&#039;, and &amp;quot;whales&#039; road&amp;quot; stands for &#039;ocean&#039;. In some drapas, kennings are all-pervasive and no thing is directly named.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that Lojban is well suited phonologically and grammatically to the use of skaldic form. Lojban gismu are trochaic in meter, and Lojban&#039;s penultimate word-stress system is conducive to the regular patterns required. The large number of independently elidable cmavo words allows one to alter the rhythm of the utterance to suit the form. Moreover, the morphology allows us to vary the length and form of a lujvo, allowing the poet to choose the word form that best suits the meter without changing the meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
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We have the ability in Lojban to mark a word as figurative in its use, and so we may use kennings at will, but we also have the option of redefining the grammar for the poem to treat all two word metaphors as kennings, and may thus accommodate the all-kenning form as well.&lt;br /&gt;
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I shall attempt such poetry in the near future as my schedule permits, but I put it forth to all aspiring Lojban poets to explore this and other alliterative poetry forms. In addition to formal skaldic poetry, there may be other patterns, more or less structured, that will project the full color of Lojban&#039;s expressive nature. A new language calls for new ideas, and for the reexamination of old ones.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms ===&lt;br /&gt;
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... Lojban poetry. I am eager to see Athelstan&#039;s proposal, being a skaldic aficionado myself (albeit non- Norskophone), but I have grave doubts already. (I do admire the grandeur of its absurdity -- akin to one of the projects to write quantitative verse in English!) Lojban is a non-inflected language with numerous non-elidable function words (at least in its grammatically correct form), whereas such rigorous modes of versification as Dr¢ttkvaett (or haiku for that matter) require either a language that is inherently terse (i.e. inflected), or else a polyvalent grammar like the anarchical tradition of En- glish poetry gives access to (--my English skaldic verse must seem totally twisted to anyone who doesn&#039;t know those conventions). (Or a tradition of broken utterance, which is haiku&#039;s, as any literal rendering will show.) Athelstan is absolutely correct in perceiving Lojban&#039;s consonantal richness as the salient poetic character. But that applies only to its core vocabulary. Include all the function words as they naturally occur, and Lojban has a greater resemblance to a pizzicato language like Hawaiian or Japanese, than to the surflike pounding of Germanic lines in Alliterative-Accentual. Another thing: it takes many near-synonyms to be able to say what you want and have it alliterate. I don&#039;t foresee this ever being true of Lojban unless it swamps its carefully-distinguishable word-hoard with a ton of redundant imports...&lt;br /&gt;
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I imagine Lojban poetry will eventually create brand new forms out of its own vast uniqueness which is hardly perceptible yet to those who think in English (or other natural language) first. I&#039;ve got a few noodly intimations I&#039;m reluctant to pontificate upon before I can substantiate them with practical excellence, but I can say right now that the &amp;quot;abstract ideas of modern poetry&amp;quot; find a greatly expanded range in this language with few concrete noun- distinctions (names of birds, flowers, and feelings), but capable of phrases such as &amp;quot;mu&#039;e laxyzva&amp;quot; -- &amp;quot;The achievement of balance-presence&amp;quot; (which may mean just &amp;quot;poise&amp;quot;, or imply a whole world of Taoist philosophy). -- so naturally and yet so suggestively.&lt;br /&gt;
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I guess a lot of people still identify &amp;quot;poetry&amp;quot; with rhyme+meter, although almost no poets even attempt them anymore outside of popular music. For Lojban to be shoehorned into existing English poetic forms is not quite the contortionist feat that skaldic verse would be, but my earlier point still applies. In addition, Lojban has few natural rhymes, and hardly any &#039;good&#039; ones at all. &#039;Love&#039; (prami) rhymes only with &#039;computer&#039; (skami) and &#039;acid&#039; (slami), while &#039;desire&#039; (djica) rhymes with &#039;differ&#039; (frica) and -- too closely -- &#039;deceive&#039; (tcica), for example. Compare fire/desire or Schmerz/Herz et al... This is not as bad as Esperanto, which rhymes Vulva and Gunpowder; still, artificial languages seem uniformly unfortunate in this respect. More sophisticated devices, like slant-rhyme, assonance, and particularly the combination of an initial and a medial consonance (muzga zgana; lujvo jvinu), I suggest, are well worth trying in an irregular way. But, to use Pound&#039;s nomenclature, Lojban excels in aptness for meaning-subtlety (Logopoeia) rather than phonic luxuriance (Mekpoeia) or pictorial descriptiveness (Phanopoeia).&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is an athletic language; it stretches your mind with challenging concept-divergences and novel connections. Making lujvo will probably be its first and most popular word game always; just as Crosswords exploit the hodgepodge of English megavocabulary, lujvo involve the very quiddity of Lojban. I predict that it will eventually become a much-used source of return-borrowings for many natural languages, somewhat as classical Greek has continued to provide new loans for scientific usage.&lt;br /&gt;
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One last thing. I think there might be a definite limerick potential. Anapests seem to come easier than iambs; and what rhymes exist, have a quality that reminds me of a triple rhyme in English -- as can be found in the dustier corners of a rhyming dictionary: mentor-centaur, gurgle-burgle, muscular-crepuscular. This is a Special Effect, like fireworks, not the constant recurrence of a mild harmony (like rhyme in Italian or Spanish)...&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan responds with two notes:&lt;br /&gt;
# Germanic languages were not as terse as they are now, precisely because they were more highly inflected. Latin and Greek were very highly inflected, and they are anything but terse.&lt;br /&gt;
# There are usually several directions from which to approach a concept: function, appearance, resemblance, effects, etc. Many gismu are also expressible as conversions of other gismu. Combined with the further tool of kenning description, Lojban promises as rich and diverse a phonetic realm as is available in any language, past or present.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob adds some other points:&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has more rhyme capability than Michael indicates. It is true that there isn&#039;t much rhyming capability among gismu, but among lujvo there should be considerably more rhymes. After all, all Lojban brivla end in a vowel or diphthong, and there are only so many possible endings.&lt;br /&gt;
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It is true, though, that many of the rhyming syllables would be based on sharing the same rafsi, leading to a lack of variety of pure rhyming forms. But moving beyond pure rhyme, into Athelstan&#039;s half-rhyme and alliterative schemes should allow Lojban to show great richness. After all, Lojban has a much more restricted set of permitted word endings, and a smaller set of phonemes, than does English. Since there are, at least theoretically, more possible Lojban words than English words, this suggests a higher density of rhymes and near-rhymes than English has. Time will tell if this is a real feature of the language, and not a false extrapolation.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban has many non-elidable structure words, but it has many elidable ones as well. It can even be said that Lojban&#039;s optional tense system is an elidable form of inflection. &amp;quot;pu klama&amp;quot; can be said to be an inflected form of &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot;; however, Lojban inflections are both optional and completely regular. It is unclear why this would be a disadvantage in poetry as compared with inflected languages, as Michael implies.&lt;br /&gt;
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With regard to sound and rhythm, I cannot say whether Lojban is more like Japanese than like German. However, since Lojban is a language with stress-oriented pronunciation, one would suspect that rhythm, (as opposed to rhyme) would follow the strong-stressed patterns of Germanic languages, as opposed to the syllabic rhythms that I believe are typical of most oriental languages (as well as French). The consonant clustering, is of course reminiscent of Slavic languages; perhaps we should examine Slavic poetry forms to determine some additional possibilities for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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I am not well-versed in poetry, but I am going to be getting a bit of experience in devising Lojban forms: the Arabian Nights tales that I am working on are scattered with embedded verse, as well as a frequently alliterative and simply-rhyming prose. I&#039;ll be trying to capture the Arabic richness of pattern in Lojban, just as Burton tried to capture it into English. As an example, which helps belie Michael&#039;s perception of a lack of synonyms, Burton&#039;s English translation of a vocative (near the beginning of the first story) reads &amp;quot;O King of the time and Caliph of the tide ...&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;tide&amp;quot; here obviously means &amp;quot;season&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;Yuletide&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is fully capable of expressing this parallel metaphor of nearly identical meanings with two totally unrelated expressions, just as English does: &amp;quot;doi nolrai co turni be le temci be&#039;o je catni be le cabna&amp;quot; (O superlative-noble type-of [governor of the time-interval and authority over the present]), and I even captured the alliteration (which is highly valued in Arabic poetry and a feature that Burton tries to emulate) at least as well as the English does. (I won&#039;t promise such successful Arabic poeticity in the rest of my translation.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In the final analysis, both Michael and Athelstan may be right. We have to try new ideas and see what works for Lojban. If we can give rebirth to old forms that have been lost to English, great. If people choose to develop a new cultural form of poetry, this may even be evidence of a new Sapir-Whorf effect of a type never consider by Jim Brown and others.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Guidelines for Understanding Unfamiliar Lojban Text ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Even if you only have a gismu list and rafsi indexes, you should be able to usefully work on translating the following. With simple cmavo lists, you can probably get most of the meaning, while if you&#039;ve studied the textbook lessons, almost all of the texts that follow should be un- derstood.&lt;br /&gt;
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This doesn&#039;t mean that you necessarily can just read the Lojban text straight and understand it. There are some tricks that a new learner can use to maximize understanding. This section attempts to explain the technique that we had the Lojban class use in tackling unfamiliar text.&lt;br /&gt;
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You should not allow yourself to be hampered by what you haven&#039;t yet studied, or what you don&#039;t have lists for. Translate what you can, and you may be able to interpolate the rest. Failing this, look at the literal and colloquial English translations in the section following, and try to figure out the function and/or meaning of the word or construct that you didn&#039;t understand, before moving on to the next sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Noting that all sentences start with .i and that new paragraphs start with ni&#039;o or ni&#039;oni&#039;o, do the following (the first two paragraphs of the English re-translation of Saki in the next section have been marked in the manner suggested as a sample):&lt;br /&gt;
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# Put brackets [] around each sentence in the text. Put quote marks &amp;quot;&amp;quot; around each quotation (starts with &amp;quot;lu&amp;quot; and ends with &amp;quot;li&#039;u&amp;quot;, or is a single word preceded by the word &amp;quot;zo&amp;quot; (which indicates single-word quotation). Parentheses (mark them as such) are indicated by &amp;quot;to&amp;quot; as the left parenthesis, and &amp;quot;toi&amp;quot; as the right parenthesis. &amp;quot;sei&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; are another set of matching left and right parentheses markers (indicating a metalinguistic comment - consider a sei/se&#039;u comment as a parenthetical sentence em- bedded in the other sentence, although sumti will always be attached with &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; in such a sentence) (the &amp;quot;se&#039;u&amp;quot; can sometimes be elided, so don&#039;t worry if you don&#039;t find it), and are generally found totally within another sentence. Leave right ends unmarked if you can&#039;t find them; if the text is grammatical, they will become ap- parent. Marking these major constructs gives you the gross structure of the text.&lt;br /&gt;
# Put braces {} around the contents of any NU abstraction clause. The left side is marked by a member of NU lexeme (nu, ka, ni, jei, su&#039;u, zu&#039;o, pu&#039;u, mu&#039;e, si&#039;o, li&#039;i, za&#039;i). These may be compounded with le, lo, loi, lei, or one of the other articles in lexeme LE, e.g. &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot;. The end of a sentence or the word &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; always closes an abstraction clause; a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; may also close it, but don&#039;t assume so at this point - leave the right edge unmarked if it isn&#039;t obvious. The text within an abstraction clause is a sentence, so when you translate the sentence, you&#039;ll then find the right end.&lt;br /&gt;
# For each sentence, analyze it from left to right. Identify and translate each brivla. If it is next to another brivla, it is a tanru, so translate the tanru as a whole. A brivla may be preceded by &amp;quot;na&amp;quot;, which negates it; include the &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in the tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;If a brivla or tanru is preceded by an article in lexeme LE, then the whole is a sumti. Put a single underline under each sumti as you identify it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;If a brivla or tanru is preceded by &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, then it is the main selbri of a bridi sentence. Put a double underline under each selbri as you identify it (the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is not part of the selbri).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A selbri may be preceded by a tense instead of by &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; (a tense is usually a single cmavo or a compound containing one or more of ba, ca, pu, vi, va, vu, zi, za, zu; e.g. &amp;quot;ca klama&amp;quot;). You will use double underlines for tensed selbri as well (the tense is not part of the selbri); however, a tense on a brivla does not necessarily mean that you have a selbri. Look at the word before the tense. If the tense is preceded by a member of LE (e.g. le pu jmive), the construct is a sumti, and should be single-underlined; otherwise it is a selbri and should be double-underlined.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Not all selbri are marked with &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; or a tense; especially when following an anaphora (pronoun). In &amp;quot;mi klama&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot; is a sumti and &amp;quot;klama&amp;quot; is a selbri. However, &amp;quot;lemi klama&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;le mi klama&amp;quot;, same difference) is a sumti - the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; makes all the difference.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;As you can see, telling the difference between sumti and selbri is the toughest thing in the language. It is best to start from the left, marking off sumti. If you come to a brivla that isn&#039;t a sumti, it generally is a selbri.&lt;br /&gt;
# Relative clauses and phrases help identify sumti, and are sub-sentences and sumti, respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
## Relative clauses are attached to sumti with noi or poi. These are embedded bridi sentences, so mark the noi/poi as a left edge of a bridi clause with a left carat &#039;&amp;lt;&#039;. By the grammar, you also know that what precedes the noi/poi is a sumti. The end of a relative clause is marked by &amp;quot;ku&#039;o&amp;quot; (which may be elided). Relative clauses are also often terminated by running into the end of the sentence or into the main selbri of the sentence, so again, don&#039;t worry if you don&#039;t find a right edge. Mark right edges, as you identify them, with a right carat &#039;&amp;gt;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
## Relative phrases are attached to sumti with pe, po&#039;u, po, po&#039;e, ne, no&#039;u, and goi, and a few other members of lexeme GOI that occur infrequently. If you see one of these words, then that which follows it is a sumti AND that which precedes it is also a sumti. The second sumti modifies or relates to the first in some way depending on the particular cmavo. Put a pair of equal signs around one of these attaching terms, since they usually indicate some type of relationship between the two sumti so joined.&lt;br /&gt;
# Most cmavo not already mentioned will be in one of four lexemes.&lt;br /&gt;
## Anaphora (pronouns) are in lexeme KOhA and lexeme DA. Most frequently these include mi, do, mi&#039;o, ma&#039;a, zu&#039;i, zo&#039;e, da, de, di, ko&#039;a, ko&#039;e, ko&#039;i, ko&#039;o, ko&#039;u. These are all sumti, although they may be found in a compound possessive form: lemi stizu, in which case the article, anaphora, and brivla together make up a sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
## Most unfamiliar cmavo will be either a sumti tag in lexeme BAI or FA, or a discursive in lexeme UI. If you have a cmavo list, look among those lexemes first. UI lexeme has no effect on the grammar - you can ignore them until you have all the rest of the sentence figured out. sumti tags are always followed by a sumti, so you can also ignore them, except to use them to find a sumti that is otherwise unidentified.&lt;br /&gt;
# By now, you should have well marked up the Lojban, and have underlined or marked pretty much every word in the sentence. This is because everything in a sentence is either a sumti, a discursive, or the main selbri. Now translate the sentence, piece by piece, as best as you can. (Remember that &amp;quot;le bajra&amp;quot; translates as &amp;quot;the runner&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;the run&amp;quot;.) You may fail on the first several sentences, and have to look at our translations to see the pieces, but you will find that you quickly get the hang of it. The procedure only seems complicated at first; you&#039;ll be doing it in your head rather than on paper after a bit of experience. &lt;br /&gt;
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I&#039;ll let Michael start off with some of his Lojbanic attempts. We&#039;ll have more eventually, but I&#039;m less willing to play with someone&#039;s phrasing to make it grammatical in the case of something labelled &#039;poetry&#039; instead of &#039;prose&#039;, for fear of losing some intended sound or meaning effects.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Palindrome (mitfa&#039;e lerpoi) ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Michael Helsem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.a&#039;u le rapcalku cu klacpare lu&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(I wish!) The repeat-shell is a going (to/from) climber, loosely speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: The significance of this statement is left to the reader, but it is both grammatical and a valid palindrome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Lojban Aphorism by Michael Helsem (corrected by Bob) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.uu lo&#039;e rarbau cu simlu jalge loi cmadjizu&#039;e pe sekai lo ta&#039;e drabai ka juxre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow!) The typical natural-language is a seeming-result of small-want-acts (random acts) which-are-characterized-by habitually correct-forcer awkwardness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is approximated by: The typical natural language seems to result from random acts of awkwardness forced by correctness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== Self-Description ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi pendo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i puzuze&#039;uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o tadni le prijypenla&#039;u .e loi bangu .i mi pu&#039;i tavla gi&#039;a tcidu vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la tcoban. .e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban. .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban. .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa loi menli .a zdile prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi pu jbena la .erix. park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi pucaze&#039;a sepli gugde gi&#039;e caca pagbu le softo badyjecta .i mi capu xabju la .iunaitydsteits. zai la pasovobinanc. .i mi capu tadni vi le slacitcu&#039;e po&#039;e la linbruk. .e le balcu&#039;e po&#039;u la .adelfais. .e le su&#039;ore balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland. .i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la MERiland.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi capu ciska re lojbyciksi torselcusku&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A letter to Marcia Greenough ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi marcan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi nu penmi do ca le midydeisa&#039;i noi pu kansa la krtis. bruks. cu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa lei menli prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplun. .i pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko dunda lemi nu rinsa kei la kyrtis. .e la djak. danyvan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Two letters to Deb Wunder&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. .i mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i mi pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi&#039;o nu fonkasta&#039;a pu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loi menli je zdile nu kasta&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi vi benji re jbociksi selsku do .i mi pu ciska ri .i .a&#039;o ri ba pluka do&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi do .ije mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e la .abis. .e la .erik. TIdeman. .e la .art. .uiners. .e la morokos.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ledo ka prenu cu mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .a&#039;u mi djica lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki je melbi ke cizemoi bendei .i mi pacna lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki cizemoi nanca .ije mi pacna ledo naldu&#039;e ka selzunti ledo malmensi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi du ledo pendo poi du la tipitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== From Genesis ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e la ted. vi lenu cfari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;ni&#039;o la cev. pu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;     lu ko loi gusni cu cfari leka zasti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;.ije loi gusni pu cfari leka zasti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== An Original Science Fiction Story ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Jamie Bechtel&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jamie wrote this in July, having received only Lessons 1-6, and a couple of hours tutoring at LogFest in June. Nearly all of the grammar he uses is covered in those 6 lessons, showing how much you can do with just a little Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is the first original Lojban science fiction, perhaps the start of a long tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi dacti poi farlu le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi pupu platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi xirma .i lera cmene du zo ekuus.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki&#039;u lo vlipa ke bratu carvi .i mi tcidu lo cukta ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo cladu pe vi le gapru loldi .i mi bajra ra .i le savru krasi cu barda bratu .i ri pu farlu klama fo le&lt;br /&gt;
drudi fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cikre le drudi kalri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo du&#039;e savru pe vi le danmo tubli&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi&#039;e zgana lo bratu .i mi na kakne lenu cikre kei mu&#039;i leka tcima&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i savru vi le cnita loldi .i le savru cu na rarna .i mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u mi cu terpa .i mi na birti catlu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo dukse cizra prenu cu sanli ta .i ra dukse barda ke blabi kubli gi&#039;e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra pu farlu le tsani .i mi zgana lo drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani .i nalci since&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pa lera moklu cu bacru lu ko na terpa .i le jmive ranji temci po&#039;e ro lemi prenu cu mentu li paci .i mi na kakne lenu mi xrani li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le tcima cu manku ri&#039;anai la gaicac.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o ve&#039;a loi citri ku loi prenu pu viska loinu cizra dacti carvi .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi carvi .i lonu curnu carvi .i lonu lijda dacti carvi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri krici lu da poi loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li&#039;u .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ca na fasnu seja&#039;e ma li&#039;u se cpedu mi .i lu ma&#039;a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le cizra prenu cu morsi .i le since cu citka le morsi cizra .i ba la&#039;edi&#039;u le since cu gapci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific American ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Short story from James Cooke Brown, &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot;, Scientific American, June, 1960, p. 61:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban version:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le le jenmi gidva goi ko&#039;e ge&#039;u girzu lidne goi ko&#039;a pu cusku leko&#039;a ka selpluka leko&#039;a nu cusku leko&#039;a ka puzuzai djuno le fatci .i ko&#039;a pu tsali cusku lu ko&#039;e .ia na tcica mi ri&#039;anai leko&#039;e nu troci li&#039;u gi&#039;e pu minde leko&#039;e noi du zenono prenu ku&#039;o ka pinfu leko&#039;e kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
=== Roswell, New Mexico, 1947 ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko&#039;a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko&#039;e goi le varsonci .e le skeprenu ku lo kensa marce gi&#039;e pu skicu le ze morsi ke re&#039;atra xadni poi pupu va se facki .i ko&#039;a pu kajde ko&#039;e lu loka jecta snura cu se sarcu loka mulno mipri noi srana ti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Short Lesson in Office Politics ===&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park, corrected by Nora&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The preceding pieces by T. Peter use fairly straight-forward grammar, and are relatively short. There were minor errors, of the types discussed in the mini-grammar discussions at the end of this issue, but T. Peter gets full credit for the work: he did quite well. This translation is considerably longer, and uses more complex grammar. Nora had to make substantial changes to make it both grammatical and to mean what T. Peter indicated in his translation. Since we didn&#039;t have time to get T. Peter&#039;s approval of the changes before publication, Nora is also listed in the credits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tordu tadnyspi co srana lo pu&#039;u briju selturni&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel. xokcaild. mupli cu jinvi lenu lenu se cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju mupli lo jikca nalzifre&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le senlanli cu skicu leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cukta poi se cmene lu nu camrivbi leka zifre li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la from. ge&#039;u .e lu le sepci&#039;o so&#039;irpre vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la rizman. ge&#039;u .e lu le seljitro risna po&#039;a vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi&#039;e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke cinmo nu jitro po&#039;u ru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi ta&#039;e pluka gasnu ke briju je zarci gunka na&#039;o klesi se fendi fi re frica girzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so&#039;eroi xendo gasnu fi loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi&lt;br /&gt;
selselfu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi jursa je minde gasnu fi loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa jinvi sera&#039;a loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi gunka po&#039;u ra cu gungri cmima jundi gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi&#039;e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera&#039;a loi ckamu carmi ke pluka je sutra ke&#039;e gasnu gunka gi&#039;e ckamu vajni jinvi sera&#039;a le se cinmo be loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pisu&#039;o loi pamoi girzu gunka no&#039;u loi gungri cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po&#039;i ganxo bo cinba po&#039;a je ke drata gunka bradi ke&#039;e jinvi sera&#039;a loi remoi girzu gunka&lt;br /&gt;
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=== A Symbolic Logic Problem by Lewis Carroll ===&lt;br /&gt;
translated by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This translation was Sylvia&#039;s &#039;final examination&#039; from the Lojban class, and she did quite well, though some problems were later identified in discussions with pc. In going over the translation in class, we discussed how to write this logical material in a more &#039;logical&#039; form, adding the answer. Bob took notes and expanded to include the full text of Carroll&#039;s original, which was stated as a logic problem with solution, and stipulated symbols to be used for the various propositions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro da poi na mulno leka melbi claxu ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se jadni lo silna cu mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi na mulno leka na cilmo ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jemna cu mulno leka melbi claxu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi se stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s expansion and correction:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leflogji nabmi ci&#039;a la lu,is. keral. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo&#039;e stidi lenu ke&#039;a selru&#039;a co nibypoi. .i lo se nibli cu se facki ko&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o muremo&#039;o tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamai ro da poi na mulno leka claxu loika melbi cu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije remai no da poi se jadni lo silna cu su&#039;oroi mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije cimai no da selcu&#039;i .ei co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa gi&#039;enai mulno leka na cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije mumai no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije xamai ro da poi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu&#039;i se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ru&#039;u roda dacti .ije ly .abu. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li&#039;u .ije ly by. du lu&#039;elu jinru minji li&#039;u .ije ly cy. du lu&#039;elu se jadni lo silna li&#039;u .ije ly dy. du lu&#039;elu selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi li&#039;u .ije ly .ebu. du lu&#039;elu se zbasu fi lo calku jemna pilka li&#039;u .ije ly xy. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka sudga li&#039;u seisa&#039;a ri mintu leka sudga .ije ly ky. du lu&#039;elu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o danfu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i muremo&#039;o ni&#039;ida&#039;uku ro da poi jinru minji cu na se zbasu fi le calku jemna pilka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== The Open Window by Saki ===&lt;br /&gt;
translated by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was Athelstan&#039;s &#039;final examination&#039; from the class, and an excellent piece of work indeed. Most of the piece was written before the latest grammar change was approved, and Athelstan missed the class session on tense. As a result, Bob and Nora have updated Athelstan&#039;s work to the current grammar before publication, with Athelstan having gone over and approved most of the changes. The piece serves as an excellent tutorial on many more complex parts of the grammar. You will want to note in the translation several cmavo and grammar features that are not yet well-documented anywhere else. This piece is worth the considerable time it will take you to look up gismu and cmavo, analyze tanru and lujvo, and make your best guesses as to the grammatical meaning, then checking with our double-checked word-for-word translation and Saki&#039;s original English. We are providing a mini-cmavo list as a supplement to this issue to aid in your study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a long piece, and some of the grammar is quite complex, perhaps even more complex than &#039;natural&#039; fluent Lojban will be, since Athelstan was trying to capture the style, sentence order, and flavor, of Saki&#039;s writing. Thus some sentences are longer and more complex than they might need to be. Yet the Lojban is roughly the same length as the English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please notify us if you are totally confused by any construct. None of us are perfect at Lojban yet, and even work checked by three goods Lojbanists could still have errors and strangeness within. Your comments are appreciated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mele kalri canko ci&#039;a la sakis. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn.natl. goi fo&#039;a troci lenu cusku le drani poi ke&#039;a cu ge cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u gi nake jikcaxlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i .i secau lenu fo&#039;a cusku kei fo&#039;a senpi lenu le porsi nu jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei cusidju le xanka ve mikce poi fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce ni&#039;o lu ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini li&#039;u lefo&#039;a goi le go&#039;i ku mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu fo&#039;a ca binxo cobredi lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi .i lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu .i ledoni xanka kei cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu ranji badri .i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi pujikca se penmi mi .i su&#039;o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u pu mutce pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la fremtn. puxiso&#039;e pensi lu xu la mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu poi fo&#039;a dunda fi ke&#039;a fe pa le pemdjuxa&#039;a ku&#039;ocu cmima lei pluka li&#039;u .i lu xu do pu penmi so&#039;i le viza prenu li&#039;u preti fi le tunbyti&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu ri ca pajni leni na sance jikca kei lebanzu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i ji&#039;ino prenu li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu lemi mensi puviza xabju la REKtoris. pu le puzi nanca vomei.i ra pu dunda su&#039;o pemdjuxa&#039;a befe su&#039;o le viza prenu li&#039;u .i romoi jufra bacru ci&#039;o lenu selbirti xenru&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ju&#039;e do djuno le ji&#039;inomei xu lemi rirme&#039;i li&#039;u ranji jmina preti se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i lo su&#039;emei po&#039;u lera cmene .e lera judri li&#039;u tugni se danfu le vitke .i fo&#039;a pensi kucli lenu lamezyz.sepltn. goi ko&#039;u cu speni gi&#039;a mroselspe .i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi&#039;e pe le kumfa cu stidi leka nanmuxabju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu leko&#039;u goi ra banli betri cu fasnu puca le pu nanca be li ci seisa&#039;a se cusku be le citno .i la&#039;edi&#039;u balvilenu ledo mensi vi xabju li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ki&#039;a leko&#039;u betri vau li&#039;u preti fi la framtn. .i ki&#039;u da fo le vive&#039;a surla nurma stuzi fa lei betri cusimlu lo fange&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu&#039;i ma mi&#039;a rinka lenu leva canko cu ranji le kalri kei le mela aktobr.lecysoltei li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u noi ke&#039;a ca farja&#039;o le barda fasyvroca&#039;o noi lamji le saurfoi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .i&#039;e leni glare cu zmadu lo&#039;e ni ca citsi glare seisa&#039;a se cusku be la fremtn. .i ji&#039;a xu le va canko fi dackini fe le betri li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu tai lenu va canko pagre ku cazi le satci cibnanca purci ku ko&#039;a goi ge leko&#039;u speni gi leko&#039;u re citno bruna cucliva zukte fi le leca djedi ku terdanti nunkalte&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a ko&#039;a noroi xruti .i ca lenu ko&#039;a cu ragve klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko&#039;a selneirai ke cpirsnaipekatstu kei ro le cimei cu se ri&#039;usrutu&#039;o lo nurcau rancimderke&#039;a .i ca le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa sei se djunose&#039;u loi stuzi poi ke&#039;a cu snura ca lei drata nanca cu suksa je nalseljde nalsarji .i leko&#039;a xadni cu noroi se facki.i la&#039;edi&#039;u kufrydukti pagbu li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u goi fo&#039;e .i le voksa be le citno cazi binxo co ckaji leka jikcakufra na.e leka ci&#039;orja&#039;o co dirsre remna .i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a calo ba djedi .i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levinenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu peze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cukansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;icu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenule nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u .i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ko&#039;u mipiso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o fo&#039;e sisti tai lo cmalu nu desku .i la fremtn. surlybi&#039;o va&#039;o lenu le rirme&#039;i cu so&#039;irzu&#039;edzukla le kumfanenri tai lo gunma be loi xernuncru pe mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u lerci lenu ko&#039;u klama ti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu zdile do li&#039;u se bacru ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ra capu carmi cinri li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza le kalri canko seisa&#039;a sutra se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i lemi speni cebruna goi ko&#039;a cu zvati le selxa&#039;u bazi leinu seldantysazri .i ko&#039;a roroi nerkla fo ta .i ko&#039;a pu bartu ca leicimynalsai foldi seni&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a ba galfi fi lo naljinsa kalsa fe lemi selke&#039;i lolbu&#039;u .i simsa leka medo po&#039;u loinanmu kei vau xu li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u gleki rajyta&#039;a fi leinu seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so&#039;umei .e leka cumki loi datka ca le dunra .i ga&#039;ala fremtn. goi fo&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u curve ka nalpu&#039;a .i fo&#039;a camtcu je su&#039;episo&#039;emei bo snada troci lenu fo&#039;a galfi lenuterta&#039;a kei lo mroru&#039;i ckamu nu terta&#039;a .i fo&#039;a sanji lenu lefo&#039;a selvi&#039;e capu su&#039;episo&#039;umei jundi kei .e lenu leko&#039;ukanla ru&#039;i midyctarmu&#039;u fo fo&#039;a fi le kalri canko .e levu saurfoi .i fo&#039;a birti lenu lefo&#039;a vitke pe ca leca betrinacykefydei cu xlafunca cunkemdimnyfau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu lei mikce cu tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo lonu mulno surla .e lonu menli ci&#039;ordu&#039;e claxu .e lonu mi rivbiroda poi simsa lonu vlile slugu&#039;a li&#039;u nuzba fi la fremtn. noi ke&#039;a cu jinvi le su&#039;episo&#039;imei kampu jifselkri po&#039;u lenuloi roroi penmi .e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be lei terbi&#039;a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka jevelmikce .i lu sera&#039;a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni li&#039;u se mi&#039;acru fo&#039;a .i lu xu na go&#039;i li&#039;u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi&#039;o lo voksa poi cazi basti lo nalselcni nunva&#039;u .i ko&#039;u suksalenu binxo lo cikna jundi .i go&#039;i mu&#039;inai le se bacru be la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ko&#039;a vize&#039;o klama ca .uo ku seisa&#039;a se laucru be ko&#039;u se&#039;u cazi le tcatytei .i .ienaipei ko&#039;a simsa zo&#039;e poike&#039;a cimdre se gacri ji&#039;e le kanla li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. piso&#039;umei desku ri gi&#039;e carna zu&#039;i le tunbyti&#039;u sekai leka firsku poi se djica fo&#039;a lenu cusku lekaci&#039;orkansa jimpe .i le citno cu caicta da pe vije&#039;oza le kalri canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco lefo&#039;ekanla .i sekai leka lenku jenca co velskicycau nunte&#039;a ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi&#039;e catlu fa&#039;a le se go&#039;i .i va&#039;o le manbi&#039;o vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko&#039;a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai le canko .i roda po&#039;u pa le cimeicu bevri lo terdanti seni&#039;a leda birka .i pa le cimei cu mi&#039;arbe&#039;i lo blabi kosta noi dandu leri janco .i lo tatpi kebunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko&#039;a jafti&#039;e .i sekai leka sancau ku ko&#039;a jbibi&#039;o le zdani .i lo ruble je citno voksacu sagysku ra&#039;i lei manku fe lu mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo&#039;a grana .e lefo&#039;a mapku .i le zdacravro .e le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane folbimvrocu kandi selzga velplu sepa&#039;u lefo&#039;a xalni nu ze&#039;o bajra .i lo relxilma&#039;e sazri noi ke&#039;a klama fo le dargu cu bainerbi&#039;o le spabi&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu zu&#039;i rivbi lo bazi nu janli&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu vi stuzi mi&#039;a doi lami dirba seisa&#039;a se bacru be le bevri be le blabi cavykosta be&#039;o noi ke&#039;a nerkla fo lecanko se&#039;u noi ke&#039;a piso&#039;imei cimdre selgai .i ku&#039;i piso&#039;e le cimdre cu sudga .i ma sukybajykla le bartu ca lenu mi&#039;avi klama li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu fo&#039;a goi lo traji nalfadni nanmu po&#039;u la mestr. natl. cu go&#039;i seisa&#039;a se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i putavla fi leri nunbi&#039;a .enai lo drata gi&#039;e sukli&#039;a secau lo litli&#039;avla .a lo xervla ca lenu do vi klama .i lakne jinvilenu fo&#039;a pu viska lo ru&#039;ipre li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
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.i lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku cu mukti seisa&#039;a seke smaci&#039;o bacru le tunbyti&#039;u .i fo&#039;a fi mi skicu fe lenu fo&#039;acamte&#039;a loi gerku .i paroiku fo&#039;a seke jersi kalte vazaive&#039;a lo mrofoi pe vi le ri&#039;emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerkugirzu .i fo la&#039;edi&#039;u nitcu fa fo&#039;a fe lenu caze&#039;a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke&#039;a va&#039;o lenu lei gerku cagekyki&#039;a gi&#039;e jdecisma gi&#039;e sputu vau ve&#039;ijega&#039;u fo&#039;a .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li&#039;u .i leka finti loi cizra lisri ze&#039;i lo cmalu temci cu ka fo&#039;e se certu steci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations of le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Self-Description&lt;br /&gt;
by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi pendo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello friends&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am T. Peter Park who is a new Lojban-student.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i puzuze&#039;uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o tadni le prijypenla&#039;u .e loi bangu .i mi pu&#039;i tavla gi&#039;a tcidu vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la tcoban. .e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban. .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban. .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa loi menli .a zdile prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am a librarian (book-house-expert), linguist (language-expert), and historian (history-expert). I work in the library (book-house) of Lynbrook on Long Island. A long time ago for a long time I studied modern (new-time) European history at the University (great-school) of Virginia. My principal hobbies (non-job activities) are studying philosophy (wise-thinking-art) and languages. I can speak and/or read English, Estonian, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Swedish, and Russian. I especially like studying Lojban. I very much enjoy conversation with intelligent and/or amusing people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi pu jbena la .erix. park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi pucaze&#039;a sepli gugde gi&#039;e caca pagbu le softo badyjecta .i mi capu xabju la .iunaitydsteits. zai la pasovobinanc. .i mi capu tadni vi le slacitcu&#039;e po&#039;e la linbruk. .e le balcu&#039;e po&#039;u la .adelfais. .e le su&#039;ore balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland. .i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la MERiland.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I was born to Erich and Ilme Park in 1941 (the date 1941) in Estonia, which was for some time a separate country and is now part of the Soviet Megastate (big-polity). I have dwelt in the United States since 1948 (the date 1948). I have studied in the high school (older-young-school) of Lynbrook, the college (great-school) named Adelphi, and the universities (great-schools) of Virginia and Maryland. I studied library science at the University (great-school) of Maryland.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi capu ciska re lojbyciksi torselcusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I have written two Lojban-explaining articles (short-discourses, brief-expressions).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Good-bye!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A letter to Marcia Greenough by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi marcan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Marcia!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called T. Peter Park.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi nu penmi do ca le midydeisa&#039;i noi pu kansa la krtis. bruks. cu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta&#039;a noi kansa lei menli prenu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;My act of meeting you at the midday-meal (lunch), which incidentally was with the one called Curtis Brooks, very much pleased me. I very much like all the acts of talking-together (conversation) which incidentally are with some of the intelligent people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplun. .i pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni .i mi steci nelci lezu&#039;o tadni la lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a language-expert (linguist), and a history-expert (historian). I work in the book-house (library) of Lynbrook on the Long-Island. I studied new-time (modern) European history in the great-school (university) of Virginia. My principal un-job activity of doing (hobby) is the activity of language-study (linguistics). I particularly enjoy the activity of studying the one called Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i .e&#039;o ko dunda lemi nu rinsa kei la kyrtis. .e la djak. danyvan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Please give my acts of greeting to the one called Curtis and the one called Jack Donovan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Deb!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la tipitr. park. .i mi ckuzdacertu gi&#039;e bancertu gi&#039;e circertu .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po&#039;e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus. .i mi pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi le balcu&#039;e po&#039;e la virdjinian. .i lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu zu&#039;o bantadni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called T. Peter Park. I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a language-expert (linguist), and a history- expert (historian). I work in the book-house (library) of Lynbrook on the Long-Island. I studied new-time (modern) European history in the great-school (university) of Virginia. My principal un-job activity of doing (hobby) is the activity of language-study (linguistics).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lemi&#039;o nu fonkasta&#039;a pu mutce pluka mi .i mi mutce nelci loi menli je zdile nu kasta&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Our act of telephone-together-talking (phone conversation) much pleased me. I very much like intelligent and amusing acts of together-talking (conversation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi vi benji re jbociksi selsku do .i mi pu ciska ri .i .a&#039;o ri ba pluka do&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I send here two Lojban-explaining discourses to you. I wrote them and I hope they will please you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi du la pitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am the one called Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
coi deb.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Hello, Deb!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi do .ije mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e la .abis. .e la .erik. TIdeman. .e la .art. .uiners. .e la morokos.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I very much liked the event of meeting you. And I very much liked the event of meeting &amp;quot;Loj-Bob,&amp;quot; Nora, Athelstan, Abbie, Eric Tiedemann, Art Wieners, and Morocco.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ledo ka prenu cu mutce pluka mi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Your quality of person-ness very much pleases me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o .a&#039;u mi djica lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki je melbi ke cizemoi bendei .i mi pacna lenu do lifri lo mutce gleki cizemoi nanca .ije mi pacna ledo naldu&#039;e ka selzunti ledo malmensi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I want to wish you a very happy and beautiful 37th birthday. I hope for a very happy 37th year for you. And I hope for your not-too-much being-interfered-ness (condition of being bothered) on the part of your quote blankety-blank sister unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi du ledo pendo poi du la tipitr.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am your friend who is called T. Peter.&lt;br /&gt;
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From Genesis&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e la ted. ca lenu cfari&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;God made the sky and the Earth during the act of initiating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la cev. pu cusku&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;     lu .ai loi gusni ca cfari leka zasti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;.iseri&#039;abo loi gusni puca cfari leka zasti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;God said,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;     &amp;quot;(I intend!) Light now begins the quality of existing&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;And therefore light did then commence the property of existence.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== An Original Science Fiction Story ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Jamie Bechtel&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The italics are Bob&#039;s literal translation. The non-bold English text is Jamie&#039;s intended English equivalent. You can see for yourself how well he did, with only lessons through Lesson 6, no computer aided instruction, and learning on his own. The only errors in the version he sent me were some minor tense items he hadn&#039;t had lessons for (though he guessed well), and the substitutuion of &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; when &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; was correct. I corrected these errors. His story was written before the last grammar change, I had to change &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; in a couple of places as a result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jamie rewards us with a couple of very Lojbanic (as opposed to English) phrasings. Especially until we are established with an international speaker base, there will be a premium on writings which go beyond expressing things the way we do in English, and which use the features of Lojban to express things in ways difficult or impossible in other languages. This can involve non-English tanru, a feature of Michael Helsem&#039;s writings, or the turn of Lojban grammar that relates ideas using Lojbanic precepts. (The classic of the latter form was the translation of &amp;quot;A table has four legs&amp;quot;, using the Lojbanic place structure for &#039;leg&#039; to create the form &amp;quot;A table is be-legged by four somethings&amp;quot;. In Lojban, this is &amp;quot;lo jubme cu se tuple vo da&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent work, Jamie!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
loi dacti poi farlu le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Objects that fall from the sky&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi pupu platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi xirma .i lera cmene du zoa ekuus.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I had-planned the state of seeing a movie which is called the Latin name for Horse ... and its (the movie&#039;s) name is identical to &#039;ekuus&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I had planned to see a movie called &amp;quot;Equus&amp;quot; (which is Latin for horse).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki&#039;u lo vlipa ke bratu carvi .i mi tcidu lo cukta ki&#039;u la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I stay at my room because of some powerful hail-rain. I read a book because of this (my staying in my room.)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;However, I stayed in my room because of a powerful hail storm. Because of this I read a book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo cladu pe vi le gapru loldi .i mi bajra ra .i le savru krasi cu barda bratu .i ri pu farlu klama fo le drudi fi le tsani&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I hear a loud (thing) which-is-associated-with at-the above-floor. I run to it (the noise). The noise origin is large hail. They (the hail) fallingly came via the roof (as a route) from the sky.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I heard a loud crash upstairs, and ran to it. Large hailstones were making the noise. They were falling through the roof.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cikre le drudi kalri&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I fixed the roof-opening.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I patched the roof hole.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi tirna lo du&#039;e savru pe vi le danmo tubli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I hear some excessive noise which-is-associated-with at-the smoke-tube.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I heard noises from the chimney.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi&#039;e zgana lo bratu .i mi na kakne lenu cikre kei mu&#039;i leka tcima&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I run to the smoke-tube opening and observe hail. I&#039;m not-able at the event-of repairing, because of the weather-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I ran to the chimney and saw hail-stones. I wasn&#039;t able to do repairs because of the weather.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i savru vi le cnita loldi .i le savru cu na rarna .i mu&#039;i la&#039;edi&#039;u mi cu terpa .i mi na birti catlu.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Noise, at-the below-floor! The noise is not-natural. Because of this (the un-naturalness of the noise), I fear. I un- certain-ly look at.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;There&#039;s noises below. They aren&#039;t natural, and this scared me. I carefully looked.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lo dukse cizra prenu cu sanli ta .i ra dukse barda ke blabi kubli gi&#039;e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;An excessively-bizarre person stands there (on-that). It (the person) is an excessively-large type-of white-cube, and possesses excessive mouth-amounts.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;A monster stood there. It was a giant white cube with many mouths.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ra pu farlu le tsani .i mi zgana lo drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani .i nalci since&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It (the person) had fallen from-the sky. I observe some other type-of bizarre things that fall from-the sky. Wing- snakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It had fallen from the sky. I saw other weird things falling from the sky - winged snakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i pa lera moklu cu bacru lu ko na terpa .i le jmive ranji temci po&#039;e ro lemi prenu cu mentu li paci .i mi na kakne lenu mi xrani li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;One of its (the person&#039;s) mouths utters &amp;quot;(Imperative) You not-fear! The live-r continue time interval inalienably possessed by all my people is in minutes the number 13. I&#039;m not-able at the-event-of me injuring.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;One of its mouths spoke &amp;quot;Don&#039;t be scared. My kind only live 13 minutes. I can do you no harm&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I am-surprised-by the-state-of the bizarre-person expressing in form/media Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;I&#039;m surprised the monster speaks Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le tcima cu manku ri&#039;anai la gaicac.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The weather is dark not-justified-by that called 12-hour.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;It&#039;s dark despite being noon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o ve&#039;a loi citri ku loi prenu pu viska loinu cizra dacti carvi .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi carvi .i lonu curnu carvi .i lonu lijda dacti carvi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Totally new subject. During medium-interval of the mass of history, the People saw Events of bizarre-things raining. People saw some-events-of amphibian-raining. Some-events-of worm-raining. Some-events-of religious-object raining.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Throughout history people have seen strange objects fall from the sky - frogs, worms, and religious objects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri krici lu da poi loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li&#039;u .i lu la&#039;edi&#039;u ca na fasnu seja&#039;e ma li&#039;u se cpedu mi .i lu ma&#039;a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New subject. I long-ago met a short-man. He (the man) believed &amp;quot;Something which People believe in, occurs.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;These (occurrings of what people believe in) now not-occur as-a-result-of what?&amp;quot; was requested by me. &amp;quot;We (me and you and others) believe in Science and-not Religion&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Long ago, I met a short man. He believed &amp;quot;Whatever people believe, happens&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Why don&#039;t weird things happen today?&amp;quot;, I asked. &amp;quot;Because we believe in science, not religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o le cizra prenu cu morsi .i le since cu citka le morsi cizra .i ba la&#039;edi&#039;u le since cu gapci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Totally new subject. The bizarre person is dead. The snakes eat the dead bizarre (one). And-after-this (the eating), the snakes are gas.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The monster died. The snakes at the monster. Afterwards, the snakes evaporated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific American&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le le jenmi gidva goi ko&#039;e ge&#039;u girzu lidne goi ko&#039;a pu cusku leko&#039;a ka selpluka leko&#039;a nu cusku le ko&#039;a ka puzuzai djuno le fatci .i ko&#039;a pu tsali cusku lu ko&#039;e ia na tcica mi ri&#039;anai leko&#039;e nu troci li&#039;u gi&#039;e pu minde leko&#039;e noi du zenono prenu ku&#039;o ka pinfu leko&#039;e kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Army-guides&#039; (referred to as they2) group leader (referred to as he1) expressed his1 state of being pleased by his1 event of expressing his1 state of knowing long-past-time the facts. He1 forcefully said quote they2 certainly did not deceive me despite their2 event of trying unquote and ordered their2, who incidentally were 700 persons, state of being prisoners in their2 rooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Compare the Lojban with the 1960 Loglan version (which bears only slight resemblence to JCB&#039;s current version of the language):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le narmi glida grupa cefli pa sedbo koko da pa nu pluci po sedbo ko da papaca sazno le ri fekto.... ka ia no de mandu mi ka da forli sedbo ka nu nie de pa trati ka e pa djori senini de nu lakso vi le ru kruma pe de&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The chief of the group of army guides said that he was pleased to say theat he had known the facts for a long time. &amp;quot;The certainly did not deceive me,&amp;quot; he said forcefully, &amp;quot;even though they tried,&amp;quot; and ordered seven hundred of them locked up in their rooms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Roswell, New Mexico, 1947&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko&#039;a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko&#039;e goi le varsonci .e le skeprenu ku lo kensa marce gi&#039;e pu skicu le ze morsi ke re&#039;atra xadni poi pupu va se facki .i ko&#039;a pu kajde ko&#039;e lu lo ka jecta snura cu se sarcu lo ka mulno mipri noi srana ti li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The air-Army soldier-leader, referred to as &amp;quot;he1&amp;quot;, described the crashed flying-disc to the air-soldiers and the science-persons, [both] referred to as &amp;quot;them2&amp;quot;, as an outer-space vehicle, and described the seven dead type of human- form bodies which had been discovered there. He1 warned them2, quote, at least one state of polity security necessitates at least one state of being completely secret which incidentally pertains to this, unquote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Army Air Force officer described the crashed flying disc to the airmen and scientists (both &amp;quot;them&amp;quot;) as a space-ship, and described the seven dead alien bodies which had been found there. He warned them, &amp;quot;National security requires complete secrecy which incidentally concerns this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob comments: This is quite good. I want to point out a feature that contrasts what I said about Jamie&#039;s Lojbanic forms: T. Peter&#039;s use of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; in the last sentence. This is English usage, &amp;quot;malglico&amp;quot; as Nora calls it when she all to frequently catches me doing it. Yes, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; translates to &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; in English. But, &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; rarely translates to &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; which is used only when pointing or otherwise indicating the referent. Unlike an English reader, the Lojbanist shouldn&#039;t presume what &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; refers to in the story, and must examine the implausible as well as the plausible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A Short Lesson in Office Politics&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by T. Peter Park, corrected by Nora&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tordu tadnyspi co srana lo pu&#039;u briju selturni&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Short study-piece which concerns that which is the process of office type being-governed&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Short Lesson on Office Politics&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel. xokcaild. mupli cu jinvi lenu lenu se cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju mupli lo jikca nalzifre&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are social-community doubting-analysts who incidentally are by Erich Fromm and David Riesman and Arlie Russell Hochschild exemplified, think that the state of being emotionally controlled of the set of those who are job-workers is a principal example of that which is social type unfreedom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le senlanli cu skicu leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;These doubting-analysts describe the property of being compelled of the property of always smiling and the property of always pleasing acting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le cukta poi se cmene lu nu camrivbi leka zifre li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la from. ge&#039;u .e lu le sepci&#039;o so&#039;irpre vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la rizman. ge&#039;u .e lu le seljitro risna po&#039;a vau li&#039;u pe ci&#039;a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi&#039;e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke cinmo nu jitro po&#039;u ru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The books, defined as &amp;quot;the intense-avoidance of freedom&amp;quot; written by the one named Fromm and &amp;quot;the separate-feeling many-people&amp;quot; written by the one named Riesman and &amp;quot;the controlled heart (figurative)&amp;quot; by the one named Hochschild, describe and doubtingly-analyze this artificial-type emotion-control.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi ta&#039;e pluka gasnu ke briju je zarci gunka na&#039;o klesi se fendi fi re frica girzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are pleasingly acting type office and market workers can typically be classifiedly divided into two different groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so&#039;eroi xendo gasnu fi loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are first group type workers usually kind act to the set of those who are accompanying workers, and moderately friendly and helpful act to the set of those being sold to and/or the set of those being served.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi jursa je minde gasnu fi loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are second group type workers always intense-type pleasing and friendly and smiling and polite seeming act to the set of those being sold to and/or the set of those being served, and often harshly or commandingly act to the set of those who are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa gunka gi&#039;e so&#039;iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa jinvi sera&#039;a loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are first group type workers superlatively important consider the feelings of the set of those who are accompanying workers, and often somewhat family-similar consider the set of those who are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi gunka po&#039;u ra cu gungri cmima jundi gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;These workers are work-group member(ly) attentive type workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi&#039;e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera&#039;a loi ckamu carmi ke pluka je sutra ke&#039;e gasnu gunka gi&#039;e ckamu vajni jinvi sera&#039;a le se cinmo be loi kansa gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The set of those who are second group type workers superlatively important consider the set of those that are goals of the company, and lazy and/or unfriendly consider the set of those that are less intensely pleasant-acting and/or less intensely fast-acting workers, and less important consider the feelings of the set of those that are accompanying workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i pisu&#039;o loi pamoi girzu gunka no&#039;u loi gungri cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po&#039;i ganxo bo cinba po&#039;a je ke drata gunka bradi ke&#039;e jinvi sera&#039;a loi remoi girzu gunka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Some of the set of those who are first group type workers, which incidentally are the set of those who are work-group memberly attentive workers, derogatively anus-kissers (figurative) and other workers&#039; type enemies consider the set of those who are second group type workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idiomatic English:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Social critics like, for example, Erich Fromm, David Riesman and Arlie Russell Hochschild consider the emotional controlledness of employees a principal example of social unfreedom. They describe the compulsion to always be smiling and always act pleasingly. The books Escape from Freedom by From, The Lonely Crowd by Riesman, and The Managed Heart by Hochschild describe and criticize this artificial control of emotion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pleasantly acting office workers and salespeople can be classified in two different groups. Workers of the first group usually act kind to fellow-workers, and act moderately pleasing and helpful to customers and/or clients. Workers of the second group always act very pleasing, friendly, smiling, and polite to customers and/or clients, and often act harshly or bossily to fellow-workers. Workers of the first group consider their co-workers&#039; feelings most important, and consider often co-workers somewhat similar to a family. They are workers internally oriented to the work-group. Workers of the second group consider the company&#039;s goals the most important, and regard less pleasingly-behaving or less fast-acting workers as lazy or unfriendly, and consider co-workers&#039; feelings less important. Some of the first-group, or work-group internally-oriented, workers regard workers of the second group as ass-kissers and/or as enemies of other workers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: The English uses a lot of idiom that must not be translated literally into Lojban, which is one way in which T. Peter stumbled. For example, &amp;quot;The Managed Heart&amp;quot; has nothing to do with &amp;quot;risna&amp;quot;, the Lojban word for &amp;quot;heart&amp;quot;, and a figurative marker must be used, or better yet, the tanru &amp;quot;krastu co cilmo&amp;quot;. T. Peter had also included &amp;quot;rutni&amp;quot; in his version of that title, based on the description of the book as describing artificial control of emotion. But the tanru &amp;quot;the artificially-controlled heart&amp;quot; sounds like a medical treatise on pacemakers. Always look at alternate in- terpretations of your writings. I believe that the Lojbanic communication philosophy should be: &amp;quot;A Lojban speaker is obligated to ensure against misunderstanding by any listener, including those from a culture other than that of the speaker.&amp;quot; If a message is not understood because of a speaker&#039;s inaccuracy, non-specificity, or cultural assumption, it is the speaker&#039;s fault.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A related problem was with the phrase near the end &amp;quot;ass-kisser&amp;quot;. The writer is not referring to a physical act - again a figurative marker is needed. But furthermore, in a culturally neutral language, you must NOT assume that even such as this is an insult. The mabla is mandatory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora went for minimum change in correcting T. Peter. If I had been translating the piece, I would have been less literal in the translation, describing the behavior which causes one to be labelled with this derogative in an original Lojbanic tanru. I believe that all idiom should be similarly re-expressed, unless a premium is being put on exact matches with the original, in which case, Nora&#039;s solution is acceptable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You-all have the right to disagree with me, of course, on these matters. I&#039;m not running this show, the Lojban community is. So comments are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
A Syllogism by Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;translated by Sylvia Rutiser&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro da poi na mulno leka melbi claxu ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is complete in quality beautiful-lack are innately capable of being located at a visitor-amused room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se jadni lo silna cu mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is adorned with some salt is complete in quality dryness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi na mulno leka na cilmo ka&#039;e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is not-complete in property non-moistness is innately capable of being located at a visitor-amused room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is-a-washing-machine is located at a sea-edge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jemna cu mulno leka melbi claxu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;No something which is made from some shell-gems is complete in quality beautiful-lack.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ro da poi se stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Each something that is located at a sea-edge is adorned with some salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s expansion and correction:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
leflogji nabmi ci&#039;a la lu,is. keral. vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Symbol-logic problems, written by the one called Lewis Carroll.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o de&#039;e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo&#039;e stidi lenu ke&#039;a selru&#039;a co nibypoi. .i lo se nibli cu se facki ko&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: The following are sets of not-abstract statements, such that, incidentally, someone suggests the-state-of their being-assumptions of-type logical-entailment-sequence. The logical conclusions are to-be-discovered by you (Imperative!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o muremo&#039;o tu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic; (52) {&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pamai ro da poi na mulno leka claxu loika melbi cu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;1. Each something which is not whole in the quality of lacking Beauty is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-located-at a visitor-amusing room.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije remai no da poi se jadni lo silna cu su&#039;oroi mulno leka sudga&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 2. No something which is-adorned-with some salt is at-least-some-times complete in quality dryness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije cimai no da selcu&#039;i .ei co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa gi&#039;enai mulno leka na cilmo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 3. No something is-a permitted-thing (Obligation!) of-type retainedly-located-at a visitor-amusing room and-not [as well as not] is-complete in quality of non-moistness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 4. Each something which is-an-immerser-machine is-always retainedly-located-at a sea edge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije mumai no da poi se zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 5. No something which is-made-from some shell gem-crust is complete in quality of lacking Beauty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije xamai ro da poi selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu&#039;i se jadni lo silna&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(and) 6. Each something which is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge will-be-capable-of-and-have-already been-adorned-with some salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tu&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o ru&#039;u roda dacti .ije ly .abu. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li&#039;u .ije ly by. du lu&#039;elu jinru minji li&#039;u .ije ly cy. du lu&#039;elu se jadni lo silna li&#039;u .ije ly dy. du lu&#039;elu selra&#039;e selstu lo xamsi korbi li&#039;u .ije ly .ebu. du lu&#039;elu se zbasu fi lo calku jemna pilka li&#039;u .ije ly xy. du lu&#039;elu mulno leka sudga li&#039;u seisa&#039;a ri mintu leka sudga .ije ly ky. du lu&#039;elu selcu&#039;i co selra&#039;e selstu lo vitke nunzdi kumfa li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: (I assume!) Each something is a thing. (and) a = symbol-for &amp;quot;is complete in quality of lacking Beauty&amp;quot;. (and) b = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-an-immerser-machine&amp;quot;. (and) c = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-adorned-with some salt&amp;quot;. (and) d = symbol-for &amp;quot;is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge&amp;quot;. (and) e = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-made-from some shell gem-crust&amp;quot;. (and) x = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-complete in quality of non-moistness&amp;quot; [editorial metalinguistic statement not really there: this (the quality of non-moistness) is the same as the quality of dryness.] (and) k = symbol-for &amp;quot;is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-lo- cated-at a visitor-amusing room&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;osa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic (this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o danfu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;New topic: (Observative!) Answers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.isa&#039;a faisa&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i muremo&#039;o ni&#039;ida&#039;uku ro da poi jinru minji cu na se zbasu fi le calku jemna pilka&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(52) Necessitated by the-distant-preceding statements, each something which is-an-immerser-machine is-not made-from some shell gem-crust.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Note, that in this translation, I had to improvise a way of expressing &amp;quot;[...]&amp;quot;, or an indication of text omitted. We will probably add a discursive for this, which will be more explicit than the method I used in this translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
And the original is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Symbolic Logic, by Lewis Carroll&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sets of Concrete Propositions, proposed as Premises for Sorites. Conclusions to be found.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Everything, not absolutely ugly, may be kept in a drawing-room;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing, that is encrusted with salt, is ever quite dry;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing should be kept in a drawing-room, unless it is free from damp;&lt;br /&gt;
# Bathing-machines are always kept near the sea;&lt;br /&gt;
# Nothing, that is made from mother-of-pearl, can be absolutely ugly;&lt;br /&gt;
# Whatever is kept near the sea gets encrusted with salt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Univ. &amp;quot;things&amp;quot;; a = absolutely ugly; b = bathing machines; c = encrusted with salt; d = kept near the sea; e = made of mother-of-pearl; h = quite dry; k = things that may be kept in a drawing-room. [Bob: note that I didn&#039;t translate the &amp;quot;things that&amp;quot;, which shouldn&#039;t have been there.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Answers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
52. Bathing machines are never made of mother-of-pearl.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
The Open Window by Saki, translated by Athelstan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Struck-through words in the Lojban text are elidable terminator cmavo that are not required for grammaticality, but may have been included for clarity to the reader, or for stylistic reasons. Their inclusion does not change the meaning of the text. The first paragraph has been marked in accordance with our suggested directions, as an example of the procedure. The first few paragraphs of the English have been parenthesized to show Lojban bridi sub-sentences in the re-translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mele kalri canko ci&#039;a la sakis. vau&lt;br /&gt;
Pertaining to the open window, written by the one called Saki.&lt;br /&gt;
The Open Window, by Saki&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;oni&#039;o lu lemi rirme&#039;i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl. li&#039;u se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u noi ke&#039;a li pamu cu nanca .i lu .ei do troci lenu do cabi&#039;ibaxipa renvi lenu mi jikca li&#039;u se bacru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[ni&#039;oni&#039;o &amp;quot;lu [lemi rirme&#039;i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl.] li&#039;u&amp;quot; se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u noi &amp;lt;ke&#039;a li pamu cu nanca &amp;gt;] [.i &amp;quot;lu [.ei do troci lenu {do cabi&#039;ibaxipa renvi lenu {mi jikca}}] li&#039;u&amp;quot; se bacru]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My parental-sister will-shortly low-go, O Mr. Nuttel.&amp;quot; is uttered by the polite, socially-comfortable young-woman such that (she is 15 years in duration). &amp;quot;(Obligation!) You attempt that (you now-till-later1 survive (my socializing)).&amp;quot; is uttered.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;My aunt will be down presently, Mr. Nuttel,&amp;quot; said a very self-possessed young lady of fifteen; &amp;quot;in the meantime you must try and put up with me.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn.natl. goi fo&#039;a troci lenu cusku le drani poi ke&#039;a cu ge cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u gi nake jikca xlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i .i secau lenu fo&#039;a cusku kei fo&#039;a senpi lenu le porsi nu jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei cu sidju le xanka ve mikce poi fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[.i la fremtn.natl. =goi= fo&#039;a troci lenu {cusku le drani poi &amp;lt;ke&#039;a cu ge [cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti&#039;u] gi [nake jikca xlali le bavizi rirme&#039;i]&amp;gt;}] [.i secau lenu {fo&#039;a cusku kei} fo&#039;a senpi lenu {le porsi nu {jikri&#039;i vitke lei pu na penmi kei} cu sidju le xanka ve mikce poi [fo&#039;a ca troci co se mikce]}]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton Nuttel (he6) tries (to express the correct thing which is (both (expressingly-pleasing to the right-here-now sibling-daughter), and (not socially-bad for the future-right-here parent-sister))). Without (his6 expressing [it]), he6 doubts that (the sequential social-rite visiting to previous not-meeters helps the anxiety-conditions-treated-for which (he6 tries (to-be-treated-for))).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton Nuttel endeavored to say the correct something which should duly flatter the niece of the moment without unduly discounting the aunt that was to come. Privately he doubted more than ever whether these formal visits on a suc- cession of total strangers would do much towards helping the nerve cure which he was supposed to be undergoing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lu ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini li&#039;u lefo&#039;a goi le go&#039;i ku mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu fo&#039;a ca binxo co bredi lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi .i lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu .i ledo ni xanka kei cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu ranji badri .i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi pu jikca se penmi mi .i su&#039;o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u pu mutce pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;ni&#039;o [&amp;quot;lu [ru&#039;a mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini] li&#039;u&amp;quot; le &amp;lt;fo&#039;a =goi= le go&#039;i ku&amp;gt; mensi pupu se bacru mu&#039;i lenu {fo&#039;a ca binxo co bredi lenu {xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi}}] [.i &amp;quot;lu [do bava jikca najenai tavla su&#039;o jmive prenu] [.i ledo ni {xanka kei} cu zenba ri&#039;a lenu {ranji badri}] [.i da&#039;i .ei mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa&#039;a be fe ro leva prenu poi &amp;lt;pu jikca se penmi mi&amp;gt;] [.i su&#039;o ri cu (sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se&#039;u) pu mutce pluka] li&#039;u&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(I suppose!) I know your future-around-yonder situation.&amp;quot; his6 (the subject of the last sentence&#039;s) sister had- previously uttered with-motive-that (he6 was simultaneously a becomer of-type prepared-for the-event-of (dweller-going- to the past2-there rural secure-places)). &amp;quot;You will-there socialize-not and not talk-to at-least-some living-persons. Your amount-of (nervousness) increases caused-by being-(continually-sad). (Actually!) (Obligation!) I will give to-you the meeter-knower-letters to each of those-there persons which (socially-were-met-by me). At-least-some of-them (those- there persons) (This statement is true by-standard-of my remembrances) were much-pleasant-to.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I know how it will be,&amp;quot; his sister had said when he was preparing to migrate to this rural retreat; &amp;quot;you will bury yourself down there and not speak to a living soul, and your nerves will be worse than ever from moping. I shall just give you letters of introduction to all the people I know there. Some of them, as far as I can remember, were quite nice.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o la fremtn. puxiso&#039;e pensi lu xu la mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu poi fo&#039;a dunda fi ke&#039;a fe pa le pemdjuxa&#039;a ku&#039;o cu cmima lei pluka li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton pastmostly thought &amp;quot;Is it true that Mrs. Sappleton, the woman such-that he6 gives her one-of-the meeter- knower-letters, is-a-member-of the pleasant?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton wondered whether Mrs. Sappleton, the lady to whom he was presenting one of the letters of introduction, came into the nice division.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu xu do pu penmi so&#039;i le viza prenu li&#039;u preti fi le tunbyti&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu ri ca pajni leni na sance jikca kei le banzu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Is-it-true-that you met with many-of-the close-to-here persons?&amp;quot; is-a-question-by the sibling-daughter motivated-by she (the sibling-daughter) simultaneously judges the-amount-of non-sound-socializing to-be the sufficient one.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Do you know many of the people round here?&amp;quot; asked the niece, when she judged that they had had sufficient silent communion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i ji&#039;ino prenu li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn. .i lu lemi mensi puviza xabju la REKtoris. pu le puzi nanca vomei .i ra pu dunda su&#039;o pemdjuxa&#039;a befe su&#039;o le viza prenu li&#039;u .i romoi jufra bacru ci&#039;o lenu selbirti xenru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is true that (met-with) nearly-zero persons.&amp;quot; is uttered by Framton. &amp;quot;My sister previously-close-to-here inhabited the Rectory, before the recent-past year-foursome. She (my sister) gave at-least-some meeter-knower-letters-to at- least-some-of-the close-to-here persons [to me].&amp;quot; (Observative.) Last-sentence utterer with-emotion the certainly-true regretting.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Hardly a soul,&amp;quot; said Framton. &amp;quot;My sister was staying here, at the Rectory, you know, some four years ago and she gave me letters of introduction to some of the people here.&amp;quot; He made the last statement in a tone of distinct regret.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ju&#039;e do djuno le ji&#039;inomei xu lemi rirme&#039;i li&#039;u ranji jmina preti se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(I conclude!) You know the nearly-nothingsome (Is this true?) about my parental-sister,&amp;quot; is a continuingly-additional question utterance by the polite type-of socializingly-comfortable toung-woman.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Then you know practically nothing about my aunt?&amp;quot; pursued the self-possessed young lady.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu go&#039;i lo su&#039;emei po&#039;u lera cmene .e lera judri li&#039;u tugni se danfu le vitke .i fo&#039;a pensi kucli lenu la mezyz.sepltn. goi ko&#039;u cu speni gi&#039;a mroselspe .i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi&#039;e pe le kumfa cu stidi leka nanmu xabju&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is so (knowing-about) at-most-a-little-some which-is someone-earlier&#039;s (her = &#039;my parental-sister&#039;) name and her address,&amp;quot; agreeably answers the visitor. He6 is-thinkingly-curious-about Mrs. Seppleton (her5) is married and/or deadly-bespoused. Something that is not-capable of-type being described and which-pertains-to-the room suggests man- inhabitant-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Only her name and address,&amp;quot; admitted the caller. He was wondering whether Mrs. Sappleton was in the married or widowed state. An unidentifiable something about the room seemed to suggest masculine habitation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu leko&#039;u goi ra banli betri cu fasnu puca le pu nanca be li ci seisa&#039;a se cusku be le citno .i la&#039;edi&#039;u balvi lenu ledo mensi vi xabju li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her5 which is the-one-referred-to-earlier grand tragedy occurs before-during the past-years-duration of number 3 [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: expressed by the young one]. This (the occurance) is in-the-future of your sister here-inhabiting.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her great tragedy happened just three years ago,&amp;quot; said the child; &amp;quot;that would be since your sister&#039;s time.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ki&#039;a leko&#039;u betri vau li&#039;u preti fi la framtn. .i ki&#039;u da fo le vive&#039;a surla nurma stuzi fa lei betri cu simlu lo fange&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Clarify: Her5 tragedy?&amp;quot; is-a-question by Framton. Justified by something, under-conditions-of the here-area relaxingly-rural place, tragedies seem-to-be strange things.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Her tragedy&amp;quot; asked Framton; somehow in this restful country spot tragedies seemed out of place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu&#039;i ma mi&#039;a rinka lenu leva canko cu ranji le kalri kei le mela aktobr. lecysoltei li&#039;u se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u noi ke&#039;a ca farja&#039;o le barda fasyvroca&#039;o noi lamji le saurfoi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Probable-that you are being-curious about the-state-whereby: for-what-motive me-and-others cause (the there-window continuing-as the open one) under-conditions the October late-sun-time interval.&amp;quot; is-uttered-by the sibling-daughter, who-incidentally she is direction-showing the large french-door-window which-is-incidentally adjacent-to the grassy- field.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;You may wonder why we keep that window wide open on an October afternoon,&amp;quot; said the niece, indicating a large French window that opened onto a lawn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu .i&#039;e leni glare cu zmadu lo&#039;e ni ca citsi glare seisa&#039;a se cusku be la fremtn. .i ji&#039;a xu le va canko fi da ckini fe le betri li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(Reluctant acceptance!) The amount of warmth is more than the-typical amount-of present-season-warmth [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: expressed by Framton.]. Also-is-it-true: the there-window, by some relation, is-related-to the tragedy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;It is quite warm for the time of the year,&amp;quot; said Framton; &amp;quot;but has that window got anything to do with the tragedy?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lu tai lenu va canko pagre ku cazi le satci cibnanca purci ku ko&#039;a goi ge leko&#039;u speni gi leko&#039;u re citno bruna cu cliva zukte fi le leca djedi ku terdanti nunkalte&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;By method of the there-window passing-through, right-at-the-time-of the exactly three-year before thing, they1, who are defined as both her5 spouse and her5 two young-brothers, leavingly-acted-with-purpose-of the the-then-day&#039;s projectile-firing event-of-hunting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a ko&#039;a noroi xruti .i ca lenu ko&#039;a cu ragve klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko&#039;a selneirai ke cpirsnaipe katstu kei ro le cimei cu se ri&#039;usrutu&#039;o lo nurcau rancimderke&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;They1 themselves1 never returned. (They never returned themselves.) During the event of their1 across-going via the softly-moist-dirt field to their1 be-fond-most type of bird-snipe hunter-site, each-of the three-some is restrainingly-surrounding-swallowed by a secure-without softly-most-dirt-cavity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ca le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa sei se djuno se&#039;u loi stuzi poi ke&#039;a cu snura ca lei drata nanca cu suksa je nalseljde nalsarji .i leko&#039;a xadni cu noroi se facki .i la&#039;edi&#039;u kufrydukti pagbu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;During the in-the-past comfortably-opposite and rainy summer (it is known) places which they are secure during other years are suddenly and not-warnedly non-supporters. Their1 bodies are never discovered. That (that their bodies are never discovered) is the uncomfortably-opposite part.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
se bacru le tunbyti&#039;u goi fo&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;is uttered by the sibling-daughter which defines she7.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le voksa be le citno cazi binxo co ckaji leka jikca kufra na.e leka ci&#039;orja&#039;o co dirsre remna .i fo&#039;e bacru lu la selke&#039;i rirme&#039;i cu roroi krici lenu ko&#039;a ba xruti ko&#039;a ca lo ba djedi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The voice of the young one sometime-near-this becomes of-type characterized by socially-comfortable-ness-not and emotion-showingness of-type interruptingly-erringly human. She7 utters &amp;quot;Pitied Parent-Sister always believes that they1 will return themselves1 during some future day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke&#039;a se cirko fa&#039;u lenu ke&#039;a kansa ko&#039;a cu dzukla levi nenri fo leva canko ta&#039;i le purci po ko&#039;a .i la&#039;edi&#039;u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci pagbu pe ze&#039;o le ctebixtei&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;They1, incidentally accompanied by the small and brown Spanish-dog (spaniel) that it is lost associated-with-event- of it accompanying them1, are walkingly-going to this-here inside via that-there window in-manner-of the past of theirs1. This (the walkingly-going) is-the-reason-for the window open-continuing during each of the evening-parts which-are until-the night-become-time-intervals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i goi ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u cliva ne pu&#039;e lenu ge leko&#039;u speni goi ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka gi la ranis. po&#039;u leko&#039;u citrai bruna goi ko&#039;i cu sanga lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u noi roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu zdifanza ko&#039;u ku mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u xusra lenu le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Pitied-And-Liked Parental-Sister (her5) was-habitually talking to me about the nature of leaving which- incidentally-is of-the-process-of both {her5 spouse (him2) accompanyingly-possessing his2 white, water-not- penetrating, cover-coat, which-incidentally hangs-from his2 arm} and Ronnie, who-is her5 young-most brother (him3), singing, &amp;quot;O Bertie, with-what-motive, you leap?&amp;quot; which-incidentally always is-sung motivating the amusing-annoyance of her5, and motivated-by her5 asserting that the singing annoys her5.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Bob: Yes - that was all one sentence. The English would be equally confusing to someone who didn&#039;t know the language. This one took a lot of work on Athelstan&#039;s, Nora&#039;s, and my part, to get it to both parse and match the English. Hopefully, few Lojban speakers will talk in the manner of this young lady. Given the difficulty of the sentence, let me show it properly grouped according to our method (Using subscripts in a sentence that is this complex may help you keep track of the pieces. While I&#039;m not doing it, you can even subscript the sumti within each bridi so as to keep track of them.:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;[.i la selke&#039;i je selnei rirme&#039;i =goi= ko&#039;u puta&#039;e tavla mi lesu&#039;u {cliva} =ne= pu&#039;e lenu {1ge &amp;lt;1leko&#039;u speni =goi= ko&#039;e cu kansa ponse leko&#039;e blabi je jacnalgre gacko&#039;a noi &amp;lt;2ke&#039;a dandu leko&#039;e birka&amp;gt;2&amp;gt;1 gi &amp;lt;3la ranis. =po&#039;u= leko&#039;u citrai bruna =goi= ko&#039;i cu sanga &amp;quot;lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u&amp;quot; noi &amp;lt;4roroi se sanga semu&#039;i lenu {zdifanza ko&#039;u} ku mu&#039;i lenu {ko&#039;u xusra lenu {le nunsanga cu fanza ko&#039;u}}&amp;gt;4&amp;gt;3}1]&lt;br /&gt;
Did that help? No? Oh well! It will eventually make sense.]&lt;br /&gt;
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.i sei ko djuno be la&#039;edei so&#039;uroiku ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke&#039;a simsa ti ku&#039;o mi piso&#039;aroi pencauji&#039;i lenu ro ko&#039;a ba dzugre leva canko li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;(Know the-referent-of-this-statement!) At-least-some-times, during breeze-without, quiet, evenings that they (the evenings) are-similar-to this, I almost-always thinking-withoutly-opine-that the-event-of each-of-them will walkingly-penetrate that-there window.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Out through that window, three years ago to a day, her husband and her two younger brothers went off for their day&#039;s shooting. They never came back. In crossing the moor to their favourite snipe-shooting ground they were all en- gulfed in a treacherous piece of bog. It had been that dreadful wet summer, you know, and places that were safe in other years gave way suddenly without warning. Their bodies were never recovered. That was the dreadful part of it.&amp;quot; Here the child&#039;s voice lost its self-possessed note and became falteringly human. &amp;quot;Poor Aunt always thinks that they will come back some day, they and the little brown spaniel that was lost with them, and walk in at that window just as they used to do. That is why the window is kept open every evening till it is quite dusk. Poor dear Aunt, she has often told me how they went out, her husband with his white waterproof coat over his arm, and Ronnie, her youngest brother, singing, &#039;Bertie, why do you bound?&#039; as he always did to tease her, because she said it got on her nerves. Do you know, sometimes on still, quiet evenings like this, I almost get a creepy feeling that they will all walk in through that window--&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o fo&#039;e sisti tai lo cmalu nu desku .i la fremtn. surlybi&#039;o va&#039;o lenu le rirme&#039;i cu so&#039;irzu&#039;edzukla le kumfa nenri tai lo gunma be loi xernuncru pe mu&#039;i lenu ko&#039;u lerci lenu ko&#039;u klama ti&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She7 ceases in-the-manner-of small-shaking. Framton relaxingly-becomes under-conditions-of the parent-sister many- act-walk-going to the room-inside in-the-manner-of a mass of Regret-utterings which-are motivated-by her being late at going here.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She broke off with a little shudder. It was a relief to Framton when the aunt bustled into the room with a whirl of apologies for being late in making her appearance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu zdile do li&#039;u se bacru ko&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope Vera has been amusing-to you.&amp;quot; is-uttered-by her5.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope Vera has been amusing you?&amp;quot; she said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ra capu carmi cinri li&#039;u se bacru la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The earlier-referent (she) has-been intensely-interesting.&amp;quot; is uttered by Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;She has been very interesting,&amp;quot; said Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza le kalri canko seisa&#039;a sutra se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i lemi speni ce bruna goi ko&#039;a cu zvati le selxa&#039;u bazi leinu seldantysazri .i ko&#039;a roroi nerkla fo ta .i ko&#039;a pu bartu ca lei cimynalsai foldi seni&#039;i lenu ko&#039;a ba galfi fi lo naljinsa kalsa fe lemi selke&#039;i lolbu&#039;u .i simsa leka medo po&#039;u loi nanmu kei vau xu li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope that you are-not-annoyed-by the open-window [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: quickly-is-uttered-by Mrs. Seppleton]. My {spouse, brothers} (they1) are-at the-place-of-habitation immediately-after the projectile-firer-operations. They1 always in-come vi&#039;a that-there. They1 were outside during the moist-non- supporting-fields logically-necessitating-that they1 will modify, into non-clean chaos, my pitied floor-cloth. (Observative!) Similar-to the-qualities which pertain-to you-who-are-Man. (Is this sentence true?)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I hope you don&#039;t mind the open window,&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton briskly; &amp;quot;my husband and brothers will be home directly from shooting, and they always come in this way. They&#039;ve been out for snipe in the marshes today, so they&#039;ll make a fine mess over my poor carpets. So like you menfolk, isn&#039;t it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;u gleki rajyta&#039;a fi leinu seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so&#039;umei .e leka cumki loi datka ca le dunra .i ga&#039;a la fremtn. goi fo&#039;a la&#039;edi&#039;u curve ka nalpu&#039;a .i fo&#039;a camtcu je su&#039;episo&#039;emei bo snada troci lenu fo&#039;a galfi lenu terta&#039;a kei lo mroru&#039;i ckamu nu terta&#039;a .i fo&#039;a sanji lenu lefo&#039;a selvi&#039;e capu su&#039;episo&#039;umei jundi kei .e lenu leko&#039;u kanla ru&#039;i midyctarmu&#039;u fo fo&#039;a fi le kalri canko .e levu saurfoi .i fo&#039;a birti lenu lefo&#039;a vitke pe ca leca betri nacykefydei cu xlafunca cunkemdimnyfau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She5 happily continue-talks about the projectile-firer-operations and the bird few-some-ness and the possibility of Duck during the winter. To-observer Framton (he6), this (the happily-continue-talking) is pure unpleasantness. He6 intensely-needs, and at-most-mostly succeedingly, tries that he6 modifies the subject-talking-about into some dead- spiritually-less subject-talking-about. He6 is-conscious-of his6 host has-been at-most-a-little attending and her5 eyes continuously middle-look-moving from him to the open window and the-yonder grass-fields. He6 is certain that his6 visit that is-during the-present tragedy year-recurring-day is a-bad-luck random-type-of-fate-occurance.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;She rattled on cheerfully about the shooting and the scarcity of birds, and the prospects for duck in the winter. To Framton it was all purely horrible. He made a desperate but only partially successful effort to turn the talk onto a less ghastly topic; he was conscious that his hostess was giving him only a fragment of her attention, and her eyes were constantly straying past him to the open window and the lawn beyond. It was certainly an unfortunate coincidence that he should have paid his visit on this tragic anniversary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu lei mikce cu tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo lonu mulno surla .e lonu menli ci&#039;ordu&#039;e claxu .e lonu mi rivbi roda poi simsa lonu vlile slugu&#039;a li&#039;u nuzba fi la fremtn. noi ke&#039;a cu jinvi le su&#039;episo&#039;imei kampu jifselkri po&#039;u lenu loi roroi penmi .e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be lei terbi&#039;a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka je velmikce .i lu sera&#039;a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni li&#039;u se mi&#039;acru fo&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The doctors agree with themselves that they treat me by complete-relaxing and mental emotional-excess being-without and my avoiding all-somethings which are-similar-to violent muscle-working.&amp;quot; is-news according-to Framton, who opines the at-most-much-somely-common false-belief which-is-that Never-Meeter and Once Chance-Meeter is news-hungry-for all small- details of the illnesses and their (the illnesses) causes and treatments. &amp;quot;Pertaining-to my eater-plan, the much- earlier-mentioned not-muchly-agree&amp;quot; is additionally-said by him6.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The doctors agree in ordering me complete rest, an absence of mental excitement, and avoidance of anything in the nature of violent exercise,&amp;quot; announced Framton, who laboured under the tolerably widespread delusion that total strangers and chance acquaintances are hungry for the least detail of one&#039;s ailments and infirmities, their cause and cure. &amp;quot;On the matter of diet they are not so much in agreement,&amp;quot; he continued.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu xu na go&#039;i li&#039;u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi&#039;o lo voksa poi cazi basti lo nalselcni nunva&#039;u .i ko&#039;u suksa lenu binxo lo cikna jundi .i go&#039;i mu&#039;inai le se bacru be la fremtn.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Is-it-true-that not-this (the not-much-agreement) is so.&amp;quot; is uttered by Mrs. Seppleton, using a voice that just-then replaces a not-interested breath. She5 is sudden in becoming an alert-attender. This (the sudden becoming) is not- motivated-by the utterance of Framton.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;No?&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton, in a voice which only replaced a yawn at the last moment. Then she suddenly brightened into alert attention -- but not to what Framton was saying.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu ko&#039;a vize&#039;o klama ca .uo ku seisa&#039;a se laucru be ko&#039;u se&#039;u cazi le tcatytei .i .ienaipei ko&#039;a simsa zo&#039;e poi ke&#039;a cimdre se gacri ji&#039;e le kanla li&#039;u vau&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;They1 here-approachingly come now (Completion!) [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is- loudly-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton], just-at the tea-time. (Don&#039;t you agree?) that they1 are-similar-to some-thing(s)- unspecified such-that they moist-dirtily are-covered up-to-limit the eye(s).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here they are at last!&amp;quot; she cried. &amp;quot;Just in time for tea, and don&#039;t they look as if they were muddy up to the eyes!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. piso&#039;umei desku ri gi&#039;e carna zu&#039;i le tunbyti&#039;u sekai leka firsku poi se djica fo&#039;a lenu cusku leka ci&#039;orkansa jimpe .i le citno cu caicta da pe vije&#039;oza le kalri canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco lefo&#039;e kanla .i sekai leka lenku jenca co velskicycau nunte&#039;a ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi&#039;e catlu fa&#039;a le se go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton a-bit-ly shakes himself and rotates-around the-typical-axis in-the-direction-of the sibling-daughter, characterized-by facial-expressive-ness which is-desired-by him6 for expressing emotionally-together-with understanding- ness. The young one intense-looks at something a-medium-ways-beyond-the-location-of the open window, characterized-by the nature-of a confused quality of fear-extreme being-shown-by her7 eyes. Characterized by cold-shockness of-type description-without fear, Framton turns on-axis the sat-upon and looked in-the-direction-of it (that which is intensely- looked at by the young one).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton shivered slightly and turned towards the niece with a look intended to convey sympathetic comprehension. The child was staring out through the open window with dazed horror in her eyes. In a chill shock of nameless fear Framton swung round in his seat and looked in the same direction.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i va&#039;o le manbi&#039;o vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko&#039;a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai le canko .i roda po&#039;u pa le cimei cu bevri lo terdanti seni&#039;a leda birka .i pa le cimei cu mi&#039;arbe&#039;i lo blabi kosta noi dandu leri janco .i lo tatpi ke bunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko&#039;a jafti&#039;e .i sekai leka sancau ku ko&#039;a jbibi&#039;o le zdani .i lo ruble je citno voksa cu sagysku ra&#039;i lei manku fe lu mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu&#039;i ma do plipe li&#039;u li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;In environment the dark-becoming evening, three human-forms (they1) walkingly-come via the grassy-field towards-near the window. Each-something which-is one-of the three carries a gun which-has-underneath its arm. One-of the three additionally-carries a white-coat, which hangs from its (the one-of-the-three&#039;s) shoulder. A tired type-of brown Spanish-dog simultaneously near-there continues-at-being their1 foot-behind thing. Characterized by sound-without-ness, they1 near-become to the nest. A weak, young, voice singingly-expresses, from-source the dark, &amp;quot;I said &#039;O Bertie, with- what-motive, you leap?&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;In the deepening twilight three figures were walking across the lawn towards the window; they all carried guns under their arms, and one of them was additionally burdened with a white coat hung over his shoulders. A tired brown spaniel kept close to their heels. Noiselessly they neared the house, and then a hoarse young voice chanted out of the dusk: &amp;quot;I said, Bertie, why do you bound?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo&#039;a grana .e lefo&#039;a mapku .i le zdacravro .e le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane folbimvro cu kandi selzga velplu sepa&#039;u lefo&#039;a xalni nu ze&#039;o bajra .i lo relxilma&#039;e sazri noi ke&#039;a klama fo le dargu cu bai nerbi&#039;o le spabi&#039;u mu&#039;i lenu zu&#039;i rivbi lo bazi nu janli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton wildly-grasps his6 rod and his6 cap. The nest-front-door, the small-rock car-route, and the front field-wall- door, dimly observed route-points which-are-parts-of his6 panicky away-running. A two-wheeled-vehicle operator who is going along the road forcedly inside-becomes the plant-wall motivated-by the typical-one&#039;s avoiding of an imminent collision.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Framton grabbed wildly at his stick and hat; the hall door, the gravel drive, and the front gate were dimly noted stages in his headlong retreat. A cyclist coming along the road had to run into the hedge to avoid imminent collision.&lt;br /&gt;
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.i lu vi stuzi mi&#039;a doi lami dirba seisa&#039;a se bacru be le bevri be le blabi cavykosta be&#039;o noi ke&#039;a nerkla fo le canko se&#039;u noi ke&#039;a piso&#039;imei cimdre selgai .i ku&#039;i piso&#039;e le cimdre cu sudga .i ma sukybajykla le bartu ca lenu mi&#039;a vi klama li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here sited are me-and-others, O My Dear.&amp;quot; [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered- by the carrier-of the white rain-coat, who in-comes via the window], who are much-ly moist-dirt-ly covered. In contrast, most-of the moist-dirt is dry. What suddenly-runningly-goes to-the outside during me-and-others at-here coming?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Here we are, my dear,&amp;quot; said the bearer of the white mackintosh, coming in through the window; &amp;quot;fairly muddy, but most of it&#039;s dry. Who was that who bolted out as we came up?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i lu fo&#039;a goi lo traji nalfadni nanmu po&#039;u la mestr. natl. cu go&#039;i seisa&#039;a se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn. .i pu tavla fi leri nunbi&#039;a .enai lo drata gi&#039;e sukli&#039;a secau lo litli&#039;avla .a lo xervla ca lenu do vi klama .i lakne jinvi lenu fo&#039;a pu viska lo ru&#039;ipre li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;(He6 who is) a most not-ordinary man who is the-one-called Mr. Nuttel did (suddenly-runningly-go) [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton]. (Observative!) Talked about his (Mr. Nuttel&#039;s) illnesses and-not another-thing, and suddenly-left without &amp;lt;some polite-leaver-words or some regret-words&amp;gt; when you at-here come. (Observative!) Probably-opinion-holder that he6 saw a spirit-person.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;A most extraordinary man, a Mr. Nuttel,&amp;quot; said Mrs. Sappleton; &amp;quot;could only talk about his illnesses, and dashed off without a word of good-bye or apology when you arrived. One would think he had seen a ghost.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku cu mukti seisa&#039;a seke smaci&#039;o bacru le tunbyti&#039;u .i fo&#039;a fi mi skicu fe lenu fo&#039;a camte&#039;a loi gerku .i paroiku fo&#039;a seke jersi kalte vazaive&#039;a lo mrofoi pe vi le ri&#039;emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerku girzu .i fo la&#039;edi&#039;u nitcu fa fo&#039;a fe lenu caze&#039;a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke&#039;a va&#039;o lenu lei gerku ca gekyki&#039;a gi&#039;e jdecisma gi&#039;e sputu vau ve&#039;ijega&#039;u fo&#039;a .i la&#039;ede&#039;u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I suggest that the Spanish-dog motivates [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered- by-quiet-utterer the sibling-daughter]. He6, to me, described that he intense fears Dog. Once, he6 is chasingly- hunted, near-into-over-a-medium-interval a dead-field which-is at the river-beside of the Ganges, by a wild-dog group. Under these (being chasingly-hunted) conditions, needed he6 to during-through the-night to stay right-in a newly-dug dead-hole in-environment the dogs then dog-crying and warn-smiling and spitting in-small-area-and-above him6. These (the events just described) suffice-for all someones to panic.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;I expect it was the spaniel,&amp;quot; said the niece calmly; &amp;quot;he told me he had a horror of dogs. He was once hunted into a cemetery somewhere on the banks of the Ganges by a pack of pariah dogs, and had to spend the night in a newly dug grave with the creatures snarling and grinning and foaming just above him. Enough to make anyone lose their nerve.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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.i leka finti loi cizra lisri ze&#039;i lo cmalu temci cu ka fo&#039;e se certu steci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The quality of inventiveness in bizarre stories smally-within small-time-intervals, is-the-nature-of her7 expert- special-ness.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Romance at short notice was her speciality.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Letters, Comments, and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
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from Greg Higley&lt;br /&gt;
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In lesson 4A, page 9, your usage is not only illogical and ultimately ambiguous, but based upon analogous English structures which are just as ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
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...&lt;br /&gt;
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It is possible to make sentences in Lojban that are grammatically valid but semantically meaningless: mi klama lobridi. A meaning might be conceivable for this sentence, but would it have any relevance? The point I am trying to make is this: For the Lojban grammar to be valid, all sumti must be treated equally. (the &#039;symmetry principle&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
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Commencing further, we must assume that any sumti must have the same grammar after a sumti tcita cmavo, because the grammar must transcend meaning in order to be unambiguous. You have used the sumti tcita cmavo in a way that violates those standards.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently - according to your usage - there are two distinct ways that a sumti can be treated after &amp;quot;ba&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot;, and &amp;quot;pu&amp;quot;. The first way is to define the tagged sumti as being an event temporarily relative to the modified bridi. In other words, the modified bridi is &#039;marked&#039; as occurring before, after, or at the same time as the tagged sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
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The other way is to treat the tagged sumti as having some kind of implicit structure parallel to that of the modified bridi. An example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu la djan.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which is assumed to be:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tagged sumti is presumed to be parallel to the x1 sumti of the same bridi. But this leads to some problems. Look at the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu le ritli&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we treat this sentence as being analogous to the first example, above - and we must do this to maintain the wall between semantics and grammar - then we must assume it to be elliptically representing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
mi klama pu lenu le ritli cu klama&lt;br /&gt;
I go before the ritual goes&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to some confusion. We could imagine a ritual going somewhere - a collection of people which I&#039;m describing as a &#039;ritual&#039; going to some destination from some location, etc. But this is not what I&#039;m trying to say. I mean that my act of going occurs before the ritual OCCURS (not &#039;goes&#039;). I am not suggesting anything about the motion of the ritual, but &amp;quot;mi klama pu le ritli is clearly open to that interpretation based upon your usage. How do I know when there IS an implicit structure and when there is NOT one?&lt;br /&gt;
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The only way to remove this ambiguity without adding new cmavo to represent implicit parallel structures is to use &#039;full&#039; phrases such as &amp;quot;mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&amp;quot; instead of the unstable logic of &amp;quot;mi klama pu la djan.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob responds: Of course Greg is right. The examples on that page and a couple places elsewhere in Lesson 4 are malglico. &amp;quot;mi klama pu la djan.&amp;quot; must mean that &amp;quot;I go before &#039;the thing called John&#039; occurs&amp;quot;, which is an unlikely statement though potentially meaningful. Greg&#039;s proposed alternative, &amp;quot;mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama&amp;quot;, is a correct phrasing, though not the only one. You need to study Lesson 5 to get the shorter &amp;quot;mi ne pu la djan. klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I, before John, go.&amp;quot;). Another, nearly identical statement is: &amp;quot;mi .ebabo la djan. klama&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;I, and later John, go.&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg&#039;s argument of symmetry is not relevant. Symmetry is an aesthetic principle, not a linguistic one. Most languages fail the symmetry test, and we have not made it a factor in Lojban design.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, all questions regarding the interpretation of a grammatical string in Lojban are considered semantic questions. Lojban is grammatically unambiguous in that its grammar, defined as the set of rules that generate all valid strings, is so constructed that no string can be generated by two different applications of the rules. Loj- ban&#039;s grammar is not defined as a transformational grammar, and sentences that mean the same thing are semantically equivalent, not grammatically so. Thus my last expression of his example, using &amp;quot;.ebabo&amp;quot; is not grammatically equiva- lent to the others, even if semantically so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Notwithstanding all this, Greg, who asked this question within a few weeks of receiving the lessons, has contributed by finding an error that others with more experience have missed. This is why 75 of you have the lessons already, before we publish the textbook. We need your help to catch our errors and confusing explanations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You needn&#039;t be expert in the language to point out that something doesn&#039;t make sense to you.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg asked a couple of other questions in his letter. He asks about the interpretation of such sentences as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi viska le nanmu vi lei so&#039;i tricu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I see the man among the-mass-of many trees.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He asks whether this means that the observer is in the trees, the man, or both. The answer, implied by the same argument he used above, is that the event of seeing takes place in the trees (which probably but not necessarily implies that both are there). The other interpretations are expressed as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi viska le nanmu ne vi lei so&#039;i tricu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I see the man who is among the-mass-of many trees&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;mi ne vi lei so&#039;i tricu cu viska le nanmu&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I, among the-mass-of many trees, see the man.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is also covered in Lesson 5, though I&#039;m not sure how clearly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greg also asks how to translate something such as &amp;quot;The sun moves across the sky.&amp;quot; which is a false statement in our physical world, but is apparently true to a non- educated observer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are a couple of answers to this one. The &#039;observational&#039; discursive &amp;quot;za&#039;a&amp;quot; indicates that the statement is made as a result of personal observation. This could be made explicit as &amp;quot;mi zgana lenu le solri cu klama fo le tsani se ragve&amp;quot; (I observe that the sun is a go-er via route the sky acrossed-thing.) which puts the movement in a &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; clause; these latter are slippery in truth determination, since anything using the article &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; refers to something by description. If I describe a cat sitting in my lap as &amp;quot;lenu le solri cu klama fo le tsani se ragve&amp;quot; in the above statement, the statement is true if I observed the cat in my lap, and the sun is totally irrelevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A third way, which avoids such nonsense, is to use &amp;quot;simsa&amp;quot; as the selbri, to make the apparentness explicit. Then it doesn&#039;t matter whether you use &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lonu&amp;quot; to describe the sun&#039;s motion - the claim is the appearance of the motion, not the motion. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; from various people on &#039; &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve had a variety of comments on the &#039;, which fall into two categories. Most such remarks ask us to drop it, or use the letter &#039;h&#039; to stand for it. Indeed we do so in the machine grammar, which is written according to C program- ming language conventions. Not surprisingly, all of those who have proposed deleting the &#039; are C programmers. One of the arguments raised is in fact that C doesn&#039;t consider the &#039; to be alphabetic. It has also been pointed out that the &#039; is used to represent a glottal stop in Arabic, which is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to convey with the mark in Lojban (you cannot put a pause or a glottal stop where an &#039; occurs between two vowels.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several arguments for our current practice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# The &#039; is a buffering sound which is not a consonant insofar as the morphology is concerned. For people (as opposed to computers) to learn the language, it is nice to have the generalization that cmavo are of the forms CV, CVV, and CV&#039;V. Since most people (as opposed to computers) think of &#039;h&#039; as a consonant, using &#039;h&#039; would make these basic patterns harder to recognize, and the rule harder to teach.&lt;br /&gt;
# Since &#039; is a buffering sound that is primarily a pronunciation guide, it should look like the other pronunciation guide lerfu, which are . and , Remember that none of these are punctuation marks.&lt;br /&gt;
# If we used &#039;h&#039;, people would get the idea that you can use it for Lojbanizing any English &#039;h&#039;, anywhere you can use any other letter. This is also not true. &#039; can only go between two vowels. Thus Michael Helsem&#039;s name must be Lojbanized as xelsem. or .elsem. and not as *&#039;elsem. The reason why we left &#039;h&#039; out of the regular Lojban alphabet is that there are many languages, including French, where the sound will not be heard except possibly between two vowels. We also have to avoid confusion with the similar &#039;x&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Note that, if a native language speaker has difficulty with the &#039;h&#039; sound, they are permitted to use another non-Lojban unvoiced consonant instead; the most likely such choice is the /th/ of &amp;quot;thistle&amp;quot;. There have been questions as to why we do not have this sound in our alphabet. One reason is its relative infrequencies among non-English languages; the other is this use as an alternative to &#039;h&#039; for &#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Actually, since the Arabic alphabet is not the Roman alphabet, the glottal stop in Arabic is not represented by an apostrophe - although indeed the Arabic letter looks like one. On the other hand, the Greeks, who after all invented the word, use the apostrophe for none other than the &#039;rough breathing&#039; sound, and in a roughly similar context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other issue affecting the &#039; is its effect on stress syllable determination. Tommy Whitlock, who was involved in our original decision to add the &#039;, has proposed that the two syllables divided by an &#039; be treated as one syllable for determining penultimate stress. He reasons that we were using the &#039; primarily to create a recognizable diphthong of sounds that normally are not stable as diphthongs. Thus &amp;quot;a&#039;a&amp;quot;, without the &#039;, would be indistinguishable from &amp;quot;a&amp;quot; in some contexts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tommy is right about the original motive for &#039;, but Nora, Athelstan, and Bob are all opposed to this change. One reason is that it is a change to the baseline to fix &amp;quot;what isn&#039;t broken&amp;quot; - there is no clear problem with what we have. More importantly, it has been pointed out that stressed syllables would not necessarily be any easier to say, or to pick out of the speech stream, and in fact, the change could result in unstable phonetics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The advantage would be in recognizing a word like &amp;quot;ga&#039;unrai&amp;quot; (gah-HOON-rai) = &amp;quot;highest&amp;quot;, where the stress on the /&#039;un/ syllable makes the components unrecognizable. By Tommy&#039;s proposal, the /ga&#039;u/ would be treated as a single syllable for stress determination (GAH-HOON-rai); both &#039;syllables&#039; would be equally stressed. The advantage is also its disadvantage. Linguistically, it seems likely that Tommy&#039;s &amp;quot;ga&#039;unrai&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;gaurai&amp;quot; (GAUN-rai)= &amp;quot;doing- most&amp;quot; would be likely to degenerate together. Even worse would be a word like &amp;quot;ci&#039;abra&amp;quot; (shee-HAH-brah) = writing- apparatus, which would be pronounced (SHEE-HAH-brah) under Tommy&#039;s proposal. I find it difficult to say this word, stressing both adjacent syllables, and not turn the final vowel into that English nemesis, the schwa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Debate is welcome on these points, and other proposals are welcome, too. However, better justification will be required in order to increase enthusiasm for a potential change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How Many gismu Does Loglan Need? ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Jeff Prothero&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s note: Jeff&#039;s original used a lot of jargon from earlier periods in Loglan history; I have updated these terms to the current Lojban words to minimize confusion on his key points. However, it is clear that Jeff is attempting to make a statement not just limited to our Lojban efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan was crafted in the 1950s. Like any good craftsman, Jim Brown looked at the best designs he knew of (European languages and logic notation, mostly), took the intuitively pleasing features from each, and tried to combine them to produce something workable. The result could fairly be characterized as the first human language worth criticizing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Three decades later, craftsmen have largely been replaced by engineers, who are inclined to replace rule-of-thumb imitation by design and analysis from fundamental principles whenever possible. If human language design were an engineering discipline, what fundamental principles would language engineers work from? What sort of characteristics would they try to optimize? How close to optimum are current designs? Let&#039;s take a shot at imagining how such an engineer would tackle a specific issue such as design of the gismu vocabulary. Even more specifically, what is the optimum number of words in such a vocabulary?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any sort of precise analysis requires some precise assumptions, typically oversimplified and somewhat arbitrary. We need to decide what the function of the gismu vocabulary is, and what measure we are trying to optimize. Let us concentrate on the rafsi system, and suppose that the purpose of the gismu vocabulary is to provide the building blocks for the lujvo vocabulary: Loglan&#039;s thousand-odd gismu serve to provide mnemonic names for the tens of thousands of words which (will eventually) form the working vocabulary of the loglanist. For lack of a better idea, we may suppose that the criterion to be optimized is the time required for a student of the language to learn the gismu vocabulary, and we may further assume that this learning time is proportional to the number of words in the gismu vocabulary. That is, we assume that, everything else being equal, the fewer gismu the student has to learn, the better. How many gismu do we really need?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, we need a clear notion of the function of the gismu set. What&#039;s in a name? In a word: a mnemonic. A loglan lujvo certainly does not define the concept it labels, but is does classify that concept. The set of gismu do not constitute a basis vector set spanning concept space, but they do provide a Dewey Decimal System cataloguing concept space. In essence, the gismu set provides a coordinate system for concept space. The lujvo name we assign a loglan concept does not identify the exact position of that concept in concept space, but it does identify the general area it lives in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That seems to answer the qualitative question of what the gismu set does, but leaves in its wake a corresponding quantitative question: How fine a map of concept space do we need? This is an empirical question, and demands an empirical answer. One way of approaching this is by exam- ining the current loglan vocabulary, which represents the result of a practical investigation of this question stretching back at least as far as Basic English, with its vocabulary of approximately 850 words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The overwhelming majority of loglan lujvo contain two rafsi selected from a gismu list of roughly 1000 choices. 1,000 * 1,000 = 1,000,000 -- the current gismu set is used to map concept space into about a million regions. Another line of evidence comes from the game of Twenty Questions, in which player A is allowed twenty yes/no questions to identify something selected in advance by player B. Countless hours invested in this game have settled on twenty questions as a fair number to identify an arbitrary object. Twenty yes/no questions (twenty bits of information) suffice to distinguish two to the tenth objects, suggesting a concept space of size 1,048,576. Clearly, the agreement of these two lines of reasoning to within four percent is due more to chance than skill! But this same agreement does give us some confidence that the required resolution of our map of concept space is on the order of one million regions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So we have reduced our question to: How many gismu are needed to map concept space into one million distinct regions? We presume the map is built by assigning each gismu some portion of concept space, and then intersecting these regions. The answer turns out to depend on how we pick our gismu. The smaller your tiles are, the more tiles it takes to tile a given room. In vaguely similar fashion, the more specific each gismu is, the more gismu you need to provide the required million regions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without getting too far into information theory, we can note that the ideal solution consists of twenty mutually orthogonal gismu, each (like yin/yang) covering about half of concept space. By allowing all combinations of these twenty gismu, we would generate the required million potential lujvo. Each lujvo would, on the average, contain half (ten) of the gismu, so the current concatenate-the-gismu style of lujvo construction would not be practical -- if each gismu were assigned a Consonant-Vowel sequence, the average lujvo word would run to ten syllables! This is a trivial problem -- it is easy to construct a positional bit-string encoding which will reduce the average lujvo to two syllables.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The interesting problem is finding a satisfactory set of twenty lujvo. Each must be much more general than any of the current set of lujvo -- each must cover about half of conceptual space. The Chinese (?) concept of yin/yang is a good starting point. Everything, but everything, seems to be either yin or yang, about half each way. One needs twenty such concepts, linearly independent of each other. The current set of 1000 gismu can be used as a development tool: One needs to find twenty concepts, each of which is TRUE of about half of the current gismu and FALSE of the remainder. These twenty concepts must be independent: given any two concepts A and B from the set, about a quarter of the 1000 current gismu should satisfy both A and B, about a quarter should satisfy A but not B, and so forth for the other two combinations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If anyone makes any progress toward constructing such a twenty-gismu set, I would be delighted to hear about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the meantime, we at least have a solid quantitative claim to make for loglan: its gismu list is at most fifty times harder to learn than is logically necessary!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: right&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff Prothero&lt;br /&gt;
221 SW 153rd #194&lt;br /&gt;
Seattle, WA 98166 &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: Alas, I think Jeff is seeing making much from coincidences. The reason why about 1000 gismu exist in Lojban, Basic English, etc., is very simple; it is the round number closest in size to that of the &#039;basic&#039; vocabulary needed to get by minimally in any foreign language, and thus demonstrated in history as being a reasonably learnable number of root words. To some extent also, there is feedback between word-lists. If someone generates a longer list, there is pressure to explain why there are more words needed than in the previous lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeff&#039;s analysis of semantic space as a bunch of categories, each with its own word, has been proposed by many people, but is not universally accepted as a paradigm. Words may be needed for larger areas of semantic space as well as smaller ones, and these spaces may need to overlap. But such an analysis is arguable as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The argument may be put more forcefully: while most individuals can use 20 questions to narrow down a concept in the game, this is a round number and hence to be reasonable. 10 questions is clearly too small; 30 would be too large. I note that probably no person actually has a vocabulary of 1 million words though. It is only when you take the union of words used by all speakers of a language that you get much larger than 1 million, especially when jargon words are included. There are more than 1 million words in English. In fact there are more than 1 million species of plant and animal, so words for these alone would exceed Jeff&#039;s limit, but they aren&#039;t in use by everyone. (In fact, &#039;20 questions&#039; has unwritten rules about speci- ficity of concept and use of jargon.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even if there were exactly (1020) concepts in the semantic space, this does not mean that 20 gismu would suffice. People divide some areas of semantic space more finely than they do others, because human endeavor is not a uniform spectrum. Thus there is probably no orthogonal set that would come close to achieving what Jeff has in mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something similar has been attempted. Paul Doudna has reported on &#039;Wordtree&#039;tm, a published attempt with less than 100 gismu roots and their opposites. Every word in the list is expressed as a compound of two simpler ones. It&#039;s neat to trace out the composition of a fairly concrete term - you&#039;ll find the string to be hundreds of components long. But not practical, and the decomposed root set doesn&#039;t in the least suggest the result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But even if it were possible to devise 20 orthogonal roots for all of language, Jeff&#039;s proposed compounding method fails the test of language. Yes a computer could bit-encode and generate short composites. But human beings can&#039;t. Lojban rafsi are easily recognizable as to what they represent; Jeff&#039;s composites would need to be analyzed carefully to pick them apart to the roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jeff has done a reductio ad absurdum on the centuries-old philosophical attempt to a priori divide the universe into categories (the basis for all of the world&#039;s artificial languages that are a priori systems). Lojban is a priori only to the extent it had to be in order to be independent of culture. Efficiency was not, and should not be, the goal; lest Lojban fall below some minimum level of redundancy needed to make human communication feasible.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lojban is a human language; let it remain one.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mini Grammar Lessons ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Space and time will, by necessity make these discussions abbreviated, but we have noticed some consistent problems among students and correspondents trying to write in Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On du &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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On &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;: avoid it - like the plague. DO NOT TRANSLATE THE ENGLISH IS AS &amp;quot;du&amp;quot;. The cmavo stands roughly for a mathematical equal sign, and you don&#039;t go strewing equal signs around your English prose, do you?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Almost always, the English &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; marks the following word as the main &amp;quot;predicate&amp;quot; if English were a predicate language. Lojban is, so make that word or phrase the selbri. Then translate the &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; as either &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ca&amp;quot; depending on whether you have a good reason to specify present or simultaneous (with the event of the previous sentence) tense. (Unnecessary tense expression should also be avoided in Lojban; it seldom is relevant to meaning.)&lt;br /&gt;
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In text, &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; has use only to define a word or phrase. In a self-introduction: &amp;quot;mi du la bob.&amp;quot;, you are defining &amp;quot;mi&amp;quot;. You can also use &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; to define anaphora such as &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; - it&#039;s the only way to do so when you have only studied the first couple of lessons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Otherwise, almost always, one sumti of a &amp;quot;du&amp;quot; bridi will be a quoted word or string, or a lerfu. See my version of the Carroll syllogism for an example of this.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On cu &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is a separator. It doesn&#039;t mean anything (when I said just now to translate &amp;quot;is&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, I did so because of grammatical role, not because of meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
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In a simple sentence, there will be no more than 1 &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; in the sentence, immediately before the main selbri. In fact, there will always be one there, implicitly. The rules say that you can elide (leave out) &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; if it doesn&#039;t cause ambiguity. Only experience will tell you all the times when such elision is possible, so when in doubt leave it in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; does not occur between sumti. It does not occur after the selbri to separate it from the following sumti. The following sumti is always identifiable by either an anaphora pronoun or a descriptor like &amp;quot;le&amp;quot;, so no separator is needed.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is very useful. Given its very limited role in the sentence, it can be used to close off some of the most hideously complex grammatical constructs before the main selbri, and to do so completely unambiguously. in fact, that is why it is in the language: to make it easier for a reader or listener to find that all important selbri that indicates just what the speaker is trying to say.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; does occur elsewhere in a sentence, IF the sentence is complex. Most Lojban expressed by the more advanced students tends to be run at a 2nd or 3rd level of iterative complexity, so this may happen quite frequently. When does it so occur?&lt;br /&gt;
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When a sumti in a sentence internally includes a sentence either as a relative clause (&amp;quot;noi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;poi&amp;quot;, or as an abstracted clause (lexeme NU), that internal sentence is a bridi just like the main sentence. Thus it may need a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; to mark its selbri. This is how you get more than one &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; in a sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
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Actually, &#039;natural&#039; Lojban expression, sumti in relative and abstract clauses tend to be of simpler construction (e.g. anaphora or simple descriptions) than sumti in the main sentence. This is why Lojban tends to stop at 2nd or 3rd orders of complexity. Anything more complex tends to play spaghetti with your brain. (Translations of English tend to run 3 or 4 levels deep in complexity if you try to match the style as well as content; English writers tend to use complex run-on sentences - see the monstrosity in Saki for an example with 5 levels of complexity. If style isn&#039;t critical to the translation, break it up into digestible chunks.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Normally, if you are reading or listening in a sumti, running into the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; tells you the sumti is over and you are moving on to the selbri. In a complex sentence, it is nearly as simple. If you are in the middle of a complex NU abstraction or relative clause and you run into a &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;, just ask yourself: &amp;quot;Have I run into the main selbri of this clause yet. If not, the &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; marks the clause of the selbri. If so, then you&#039;ve ended the sumti, popped out to the next lower level of complexity, and repeat the question. If you get out to the main sentence, you have found the main selbri. This is easy once you get the hang of it, believe it or not. &lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On ke &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is used mostly in tanru, and overrides left- grouping. Normally, Lojban constructs, including tanru, are left-grouping. This is convenient, since most tanru you come up with will make more sense when left-grouped. But in the occasional event of right-grouping, you need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Using schematics to make things easier, assume that the letters in the following stand for brivla in a tanru.&lt;br /&gt;
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Normally, a tanru &amp;quot;a b c d&amp;quot; will group as &amp;quot;((a b) c) d&amp;quot; for modification purposes - this means that &#039;a modifies b&#039; and you determine the meaning of the two-place tanru &amp;quot;a b&amp;quot;. You then use the tanru as a modifier to c, forming a new tanru. Finally the meaning of this 3-place tanru serves as a modifier to d.&lt;br /&gt;
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Now if the tanru you want to express doesn&#039;t fit this nice pattern, you may need &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Relatively common in a 4- place tanru is the grouping &amp;quot;(a b) (c d)&amp;quot;, where you are really making two tanru to express different ideas that are non-simple, then using those pieces to make the more complex tanru. An example might be &amp;quot;zoology textbook&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Zoology&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;animal-science&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;textbook&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;student- book&amp;quot;. The combined tanru is &amp;quot;(animal-science)-(student- book)&amp;quot;, but by left grouping, you would get &amp;quot;((animal- science)-student)-book&amp;quot;. By using &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle, you get the grouping you want: &amp;quot;danlu saske ke ckule cukta&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;(a b) ke (c d)&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; wouldn&#039;t be needed, though, if the right pair in the tanru were made into a lujvo; you now have a left-grouped &amp;quot;(a b) c&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;danlu saske cu&#039;ecku&amp;quot; works fine without &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;. Consider making any the right side of a right-grouped con- struct into a lujvo; they usually are natural candidates for doing so, and it eliminates the need for the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Don&#039;t use &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; when you don&#039;t need to. It flags in your reader/listener&#039;s mind that you are doing something abnormal. If you then have only a single word after the &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; you will confuse your listener, even though it is grammatical to use &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; with a single brivla after it - so don&#039;t do it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is like a left-parenthesis grouping marker. Note that there is a right marker for &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, which is &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot;. (Those with lessons will have &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;; this was changed after they were written. Change these to &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; in your copies, as you find them, but only where they are closing &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in tanru.) &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; is almost never seen. Even when you do need non-left grouping, the right side typically is a simple pair, or a left-grouped triple - thus the &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; would go at the end of the whole tanru. You can always put these final &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; in. But they seldom provide any useful information to the listener/reader - so don&#039;t. The only time you should use ke&#039;e in a 4-place tanru is in the grouping &amp;quot;(a ke(b c))ke&#039;e d&amp;quot;, where without the &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; you would have &amp;quot;a ke((b c) d).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can&#039;t use a &amp;quot;ke&#039;e&amp;quot; without a matching &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; preceding it. Not grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On a related point: if, in a tanru, you need a &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ka&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ni&amp;quot; clause that involves only a single brivla, or even a simple tanru, this is a prime candidate to make into a lujvo. For example, in my version of the Carroll syllogism, I had the tanru &amp;quot;visitor-amusement-room&amp;quot;, where &amp;quot;amusement&amp;quot; is the event abstraction of &amp;quot;zdile&amp;quot;. If I had not made the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; event into a lujvo, the tanru would have been &amp;quot;vitke nu zdile kei kumfa&amp;quot; where the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; is needed to close off the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; so that it doesn&#039;t absorb the &amp;quot;kumfa&amp;quot; (and any trailing sumti) into the abstraction. I get rid of the kei by making a lujvo &amp;quot;nunzdi&amp;quot;, resulting in the simple left-grouping &amp;quot;vitke nunzdi kumfa&amp;quot;, which is much easier to read and understand. Only rarely should you leave &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; surrounding a single brivla - its not fair to the listener/reader.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note that all these elidables and combinables might be explicitly expressed in longer form to obtain a certain rhyme or meter in poetry - &amp;quot;nu zdile kei&amp;quot; would be different in both rhyme and meter effects from &amp;quot;nunzdi&amp;quot;. This is probably the only case where long forms are justifiable.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more pervasive problems is the exchange of these words with each other. The &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; series is a sumti, the &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; series is part of the tense construction and is used to inflect a selbri or as a sumti tag. Do not use &amp;quot;vi&amp;quot; as a sumti - it is not grammatical: &amp;quot;*mi klama vi&amp;quot; does not mean &amp;quot;I am-coming-here.&amp;quot;; however &amp;quot;mi klama ti&amp;quot; does work for this, presuming that you in some way indicate where &#039;here&#039; is - an accurate translation that clarifies this would be &amp;quot;I am-coming to this-here.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The opposite situation is where more errors occur. &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can confuse if you assume it is always a translation for &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;le ti cukta&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;this book&amp;quot; - you are leaving out the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; from the translation, which should be &amp;quot;the this book&amp;quot;. You might use this if there are books in two boxes (and hence not visible to be pointed at). You could then point to one box and say &amp;quot;ko cpacu le ti cukta&amp;quot; - get this thing&#039;s book. The &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; in such a position is like a possessive; compare with &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;my book&amp;quot; or, more accurately, &amp;quot;the me book&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express &amp;quot;this book&amp;quot;, you wish to mark the book, a brivla, with a location. So you use &amp;quot;le vi cukta&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;the here-book&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le va cukta&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;the there-book&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ll address one other issue with &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, in a moment.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; On po&#039;e, po, pe, po&#039;u &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These four words are used to attach sumti to another sumti in such a way as to provide additional information, aiding the listener/reader to know exactly what that first sumti is referring to. They are members of lexeme &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;, and the right sumti is followed by a normally elidable &amp;quot;ge&#039;u&amp;quot;. If found in a complex construction, these bind with the closest sumti. Thus &amp;quot;le mapku .e le grana po mi&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;the cap, and the rod-of-mine&amp;quot;; the &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; has nothing to do with &amp;quot;le mapku&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The last two have non-restrictive counterparts, ne and no&#039;u, when you want to relate the second sumti to the first as incidental information not needed for identification of the first sumti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These four words are the Lojban expressions of possession. Yes, I know I just said that &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; is a possessive. But &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; is IDENTICAL in meaning to &amp;quot;le cukta po mi&amp;quot; - with no qualifications. One translates as &amp;quot;the me book&amp;quot;, the other as &amp;quot;the book of mine&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us first dispense with &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot;, which is the &#039;identity possessive&#039;. (This is changed from the published lessons which used &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;. Change all &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; and all &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; in your lessons. Then change all &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;no&#039;u&amp;quot; and all &amp;quot;mo&#039;u&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. These will be found in Lessons 5 and 6 only.) &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; indicates another identity for the sumti it is attached to, hopefully giving more information to listener to help in identifying the sumti. Thus, if two people (Jill and John) in a room are both doctors, you could say &amp;quot;le mikce po&#039;u la djil.&amp;quot; to indicate &amp;quot;The doctor who-is the one named Jill.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; almost always translates as &amp;quot;who-is&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;which is&amp;quot;. It may also be viewed as a contraction of &amp;quot;poi du&amp;quot;, although the latter would have a different elidable terminator on the right side of the right sumti, if one is required.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other three are more like our familiar possessives. Unlike English, incidentally, none of the Lojban possessives inherent implies legal ownership. &amp;quot;le cukta po mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le mi cukta&amp;quot; says only that there is some unspecified relationship between &#039;me&#039; and &#039;the book&#039;. The germane brivla for &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;steci&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;is-specific-to&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;ponse&amp;quot; &amp;quot;possesses&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; are best described in relation to the non-specific &amp;quot;po&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; specifies a close relationship, one that is permanent or inalienable. Your mind is inalienably yours. Your experiences are also inalienably yours. So you can say &amp;quot;le menli po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; instead of the weaker &amp;quot;le menli po mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;le mi menli&amp;quot;. Quite often, if &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; is called for in usage, you will find that there is a place in the brivla reserved for the relationship. You can say &amp;quot;le birka po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;The arm of me.&amp;quot;, but it is preferred that you use the place structure provided for &amp;quot;birka&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;le birka be mi&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;po&#039;e&amp;quot; exists because you may not know the place structure (Oops!), or the left side sumti may not HAVE a place structure. Thus, if two mothers (Jane and Jill) have sons named John, you can say &amp;quot;la djan. po&#039;e la djein.&amp;quot; to indicate one of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; is, on the other hand, a looser relationship. The germane brivla is &amp;quot;srana&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;pertains to&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; is used to attach incidental identifying information. When visiting someone else and sitting in a chair there, someone might refer to &amp;quot;le stizu pe do&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the chair that pertains to you&amp;quot;. In a classroom with assigned seating, the teacher might use &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; instead: &amp;quot;le stizu po do&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the chair that is specific to you&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;pe&amp;quot;, and its non-restrictive counterpart &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;, are also used to attach any number of relative phrases providing identifying information marked with sumti tags, or even a bare &#039;tense/location&#039;. &amp;quot;le vi cukta&amp;quot; is equivalent to &amp;quot;le cukta pe vi&amp;quot;. In general, if there is a sumti tag, you should use &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;ne&amp;quot;. Thus the examples used in the discussion of Greg Higley&#039;s question above. (There could be exceptions - the colloquial English &amp;quot;the man of the hour&amp;quot; might be rendered as &amp;quot;le prenu po&#039;e ca&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;le prenu pe ca&amp;quot;, indicating that the speaker expects that the person will inalienably always be associated with that time in the listener&#039;s mind.&lt;br /&gt;
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All of these words are symmetrical, which is why we say that Lojban has no true possessive in the same sense as English. In Lojban, you can say &amp;quot;le birka po&#039;e mi&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;mi po&#039;e le birka&amp;quot; - &amp;quot;I that am inalienably associated with the arm.&amp;quot;, or colloquially &amp;quot;the arm&#039;s me&amp;quot;; the reason for doing so would be if the listener would find it easier to identify you knowing that you were associated with &#039;the arm&#039;, presumably an arm that the listener already had identified. &amp;quot;po&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;pe&amp;quot; work similarly, and &amp;quot;po&#039;u&amp;quot; obviously so. The assumption with the &#039;pV(V)&#039; cmavo in this set is that the listener doesn&#039;t know which of several possible interpretation of the left sumti the speaker is referring to, and the sumti attached will provide useful identifying information. For the &#039;nV(V)&#039; words, the reverse is true. The listener knows the referent of the left sumti, and the speaker is supplying a hitherto unstated associational information about that sumti, that is incidental to the main point of the statement.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== On go&#039;i vs. ti vs. di&#039;u vs. la&#039;edi&#039;u ===&lt;br /&gt;
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As stated above, &amp;quot;this&amp;quot; is not always translated as &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. The latter is used only when you can point to the referent or otherwise indicate it - this is why &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; is called a demonstrative.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the other hand, you will almost always translate the English &amp;quot;I&#039;m doing this, too.&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;mi go&#039;i&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; repeats the MAIN selbri of the previous sentence (not the last selbri, which might be in a relative clause or NU abstraction), carrying over all sumti, except those that may be replaced in the new sentence by new values, and carrying over the tense/location, unless replaced.&lt;br /&gt;
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But be careful! &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; has the grammar of a brivla. You cannot say &amp;quot;*go&#039;i fasnu&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;This happened&amp;quot;. The Lojban, which is grammatical, is an odd tanru, whose meaning is dependent on just what &amp;quot;go&#039;i&amp;quot; refers to. To refer to the event of the previous sentence, you use &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, which literally means &amp;quot;the referent of the previous sentence&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u fasnu&amp;quot; correctly translates &amp;quot;This happened&amp;quot;. (You can also use &amp;quot;lenu go&#039;i&amp;quot;, which has similar meaning to &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot;, but is likely to require a closing &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; to avoid sucking any following sumti into the abstraction bri- di.&lt;br /&gt;
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But if you want to say &amp;quot;This is true.&amp;quot; about the previous sentence, you do not say &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u jetnu&amp;quot;. You&#039;ve fallen into the trap of reference vs. reality. &amp;quot;la&#039;edi&#039;u&amp;quot; refers to the referent of the previous sentence, not to the sentence itself, which is &amp;quot;di&#039;u&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;la&#039;e&amp;quot;, unsurprisingly, means &amp;quot;the referent of ...&amp;quot; attaching to a following sumti; it may be used like a computer language pointer, indicating the attached sumti points to or describes the thing you actually want to refer to.)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hopefully, these discussions clarify some problems you may have had. I&#039;ll find out when you send some Lojban text that uses them.&lt;br /&gt;
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== On Sapir-Whorf ==&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Report on LogFest ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Of the four who agreed to write reports on the extensive discussion of Sapir-Whorf last June at LogFest, only pc actually submitted one. For those not present, the discussion resulted from Ralph Dumain&#039;s comments back in JL6, and a further selection that he submitted for publication a few months later. The latter included a bibliography; this list seemed to be slanted towards a particular viewpoint, and omitted basic works like John Carroll&#039;s collection of Whorf&#039;s papers, and any reference to Sapir (I&#039;ve yet to have someone tell me where Sapir said things about SWH).&lt;br /&gt;
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Seeing a need for balance, and recalling Ralph&#039;s strong criticisms of Loglan/Lojban&#039;s scientific approach to SWH, I proposed a group discussion at LogFest. Ideally, we would have discussed JCB&#039;s statements on the subject from the new L1, but that book was not published before LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately I didn&#039;t get to participate in much of the discussion, so I asked the major participants to write up what happened. What follows is pc&#039;s perceptions of the session. Note that this report was written before pc had seen Loglan 1. He has given me only one comment in writing on the latter, which is also found below.&lt;br /&gt;
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Athelstan, during the session, attempted to formulate an expression of Sapir-Whorf that reflected the consensus; this is also included here, although Athelstan didn&#039;t report on the group reaction to his formulation. So you get to react!&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; pc Reports &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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As for SWH, my memories of that session run something like this:&lt;br /&gt;
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The SWH session was devoted to two and a half questions: what is the hypothesis, or, better, what does Jim Brown take it to be, and could it be true. There was also some discussion of how the hypothesis might be tested, obviously tied to the first question.&lt;br /&gt;
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Those who have read Whorf or even Brown admitted that what they said was pretty unclear but the general characterization of the hypothesis to be something between a very weak view and a very strong one. The weakest view was that having a lexical item for a thing or property permitted a speaker to spot that property or thing more readily than a speaker without that item in his vocabulary. The strongest reading was that having a certain grammatical category in a language compelled the speakers of that language to conceptualize their world in terms of the onto- logical correlates of that grammatical category. The strengthening/weakening of the hypothesis seems to be done by replacement first of all between &amp;quot;enables a speaker to do better&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;compels a speaker to do&amp;quot; and then by referring to items at different levels of abstraction as governing: lexical item, conceptual class, construction, ..., grammatical category. Whorf wrote about both extremes and seems to have placed most emphasis on the strongest form - or the one just weaker - that the existence of a category made it easier for a speaker to conceptualize that way, or perhaps harder not to.&lt;br /&gt;
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Brown&#039;s position is less clear since not (at that time - there is said to be more in the new edition of L1) spelled out at any length (mirabile dictu!). What he does say seems towards the stronger end in involving grammatical categories (the importance of having only the category predicate in content words) but weaker in only postulating an enabling rather than a compelling character - but presumably enabling a speaker of the new language to do new things by breaking the compulsions (or at least tendencies) of the old. This was more inferred from the features that Brown stressed in his design of Loglan then form what he said directly about SWH, although he does also stress that his vocabulary is culturally neutral, looking also toward the weaker end of the spectrum of possible hypotheses. Another feature of Brown&#039;s view (which was not stressed in the discussion) is the role of metaphor, suggesting that one part of the hypothesis he is interested in is that the easier it is to bring two words into grammatical relationship, the easier it is to see connections between the two things they represent.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the subject of truth [of SWH], the weakest hypothesis was generally held to be uninteresting because a truism, although some experiments said to aim at testing it were reported to have had results taken as non-confirming (monolingual English- and Russian-speaking children sorted objects by color in about the same way or did not differ in ways that matched nicely with differing color vocabularies, for example.) But there were some questions about just what those tests tested and so some talk occurred about how better tests might be devised (&amp;quot;better&amp;quot; - it turned out, meaning ones that confirmed the truism.) The strongest thesis was obviously more interesting but generally thought either clearly false or untestable. On the false side was the fact that, for example, nearly every discussion of process metaphysics has been in a heavily noun-adjective-verb language, which ought to force a static metaphysics. Of course, most of these discussions [of metaphysics] have also said that the reality they were pointing to was ultimately ineffable and beyond conceptualization, which might be evidence that the hypothesis is correct. (Most process metaphysics is also done in Indo-European languages, which can be taken - it is said - as being ultimately verb-based and so &amp;quot;really&amp;quot; pointing to a process conceptualization.) A large part of the notion that this hypothesis is untestable, was, then, derived from the fact that it was unclear how to tell either what the grammatical categories of a language really were and what the conceptualization/perception its speakers really had - as opposed to the way they expressed it in the language. The latter seemed especially an impossible task, since conceptualization is not usually accessible except through language (or so it seemed) and thus the test became circular.&lt;br /&gt;
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By and large, the Brown test (as we understood it) - to look for changes in behavior/conceptualization/personality (in a broad sense) when a new language is learned, to correlate with features of the new language - looked like as reasonable a test as was possible. The problem was, of course, what features of the new language were to be relevant and what are the appropriate correlates of these features? Brown&#039;s design of Loglan gives some clues to his ideas of appropriate features, as noted above, but what traits he would correlate with each was still unclear. Nor did anyone have any useful suggestions beyond those made in Ju&#039;i Lobypli at other times.&lt;br /&gt;
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I should note in passing that, like earlier more formal discussion of SWH in academic circles, our discussion generated much more heat than light, with some of even our mildest members becoming rather abusive to some of their opponents. I think we did manage to end amicably, however.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039; Athelstan&#039;s Formulation of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Whorf says that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) occurs through the grammar, not the lexicon. Grammar is a pattern of increasingly complex relationships between words, and then groups of relationships between words, thus building a continuum of complexity from lexicon to grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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If Whorf&#039;s grammatical view is some-what correct, it may still be a semantic effect. In analyzing apparent SWH effects towards the grammatical end of the spectrum, semantics affects thought more subtly and less avoidably.&lt;br /&gt;
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Compare Marvin Minsky&#039;s view of intelligence as a progressively built complex of interactions between reactions, agents, and groups of them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Bob&#039;s note: Athelstan has expanded upon this formulation into a more quantitative view of SWH than I have heard before. He has written this up in technical Lojban, and the result will be in JL11.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Discussion on Jim Brown&#039;s Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan 14th Edition ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;d like more opinions on what the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) is and how to test it. After the heated debate at LogFest, we were surprised that Jim Brown does not even refer to &#039;strong&#039; or &#039;weak&#039; versions of the SWH in&lt;br /&gt;
Loglan 1. It seems that Jim&#039;s views are orthogonal to that civilization&amp;quot; due to Chinese grammar and the &amp;quot;virtually classification scheme - which may be the most significant theoretical advance in Jim&#039;s formulation - he has changed the terms of the debate on SWH, perhaps in a direction less subject to philosophical and political posturing that pc reports has haunted SWH throughout its history.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jim also discusses how he thinks SWH may be tested in L1. pc, Athelstan, and I have found the test he proposes to be scientifically invalid, but perhaps the seed of a more valid test.&lt;br /&gt;
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The following, from our longer review of L1, which the LK10 review was condensed from, discusses what Jim Brown proposes for the SWH and the Loglan test, and why we believe it to be inadequate. The text is not polished to the extent we would have liked, nor is it written in the apolitical, academically disinterested style we eventually adopted for the review; Athelstan and I have ruled out spending a lot more time on L1 for a while. But the ideas therein should stimulate thought among those of you interested in using Lojban to test SWH; they also should raise questions about the nature of experimental linguistic research in general - important if Lojban indeed is to be the cradle of experimental linguistics. &lt;br /&gt;
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==== from Bob &amp;amp; Athelstan&#039;s Unabridged Review ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The main discussion of the scientific rationale for the language takes place in the introduction and in the new Chapter 7 on &amp;quot;Testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis&amp;quot;. The introductory section is lucid and presents the purpose of the language quite well. In Chapter 7, he then goes on to explore a variety of formulations of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis as he perceives it, and discusses the implications of these formulations for testing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In so doing he nicely avoids the controversial aspects of Sapir-Whorf, including the politically and philosophically issue of &#039;linguistic relativity&#039; that Ralph Dumain discussed in JL7, as well as the various attempts to divide the hypothesis into a strong and untenable form (that due to different language structures, people can never truly understand the culture of another language community) and a weak and trite form (different languages give different perspectives, so learning a new one broadens your mind).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The formulations he chooses as best exemplifying Sapir- Whorf are that &amp;quot;a pattern of relationships exists between the cultures of certain peoples and the structures fo the individual languages with which those cultures were associ- ated&amp;quot;, that &amp;quot;structural features of languages are seen by Whorf as limiting the domain of the possible for minds shaped by them&amp;quot; and (actually from American philosopher F. S. C. Northrup) &amp;quot;a facilitory one ... notational advances ... that replace other notations are facilitory&amp;quot;, or in other words, that a language with a more efficient or effective way of expressing certain kinds of ideas will cause its associated culture to be richer in the realms of those ideas. Dr. Brown cites the &amp;quot;enabling&amp;quot; effects of new mathematical notations, and the relative poetic richness and &amp;quot;deeply esthetic orientation of the Chinese limitless interplay of verbal categories&amp;quot; found in Chinese.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Brown then goes on to claim that Loglan can be used to test either of these formulations, and outlines a fairly detailed approach to such a test. Along the way, he points out that the nature of modern science is such that experiments must be designed to disprove a theory or model assuming that it is true, rather than to try to prove the model, and that scientific advance comes when such experi- ments lead to refinements of the model that allow it to more accurately describe reality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Brown also indicates that the &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; perceived by current loglanists are not scientifically useful, although he then goes on to use those effects as a means of identifying true &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; in a test population. This is but the first sign of several that Dr. Brown&#039;s remarkably cogent presentation of the hypothesis and the problems in testing it did not open his mind to countless problems that he did not see. The result is that his detailed experimental scheme is fatally flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A few brief examples are needed; this section is the major new section of the book and covers an important part of the scientific justification for the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, Dr. Brown suggests that a useful test of Sapir-Whorf can be conducted with second language learners, specifically American university students (not the most homogeneous of intellects or cultures) who study Loglan, French, and Chinese in a &amp;quot;Summer Workshop&amp;quot; &#039;total immersion&#039; environment. He then contradicts himself by deciding that this workshop should last 8 months for Chinese, 4 months for French, and two months for Loglan (he does not propose any standard for setting these times, like a pre- experiment to determine how long it takes to reach a measurable level of proficiency using the proposed teaching methods; nor does he recognize that time taken to learn a language may be unrelated to time needed to evoke &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; - the difficulty of Chinese is due more to its writing system and tones, while the grammar is relatively easy to learn - so &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; based on grammatical structure may show up relatively sooner).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the summers may be awesomely long in Gainesville (8 months?), but even so, few university students are going to be able or willing to take 8 solid months of their educational program to study a single subject, even for pay, unless that subject was their primary interest - and he has specifically excluded choosing students on the basis of their interest in the language. (Money doesn&#039;t motivate everybody, Jim!) Dr. Brown never really addresses the question of holding a disinterested subject&#039;s interest in learning a language (probably the toughest problem in foreign language education), except to hold out to the non- Loglan students the offer to teach them Loglan for free in a workshop the following summer. Wow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Somewhat surprisingly, he chooses to measure &#039;creativity&#039; as the area for detecting short-term Sapir-Whorf effects, and not the logical thinking that is the original basis for the language. This is actually a good choice; it is too likely that any attempts to measure development of logical thought over a short period will be colored by the teaching methodology used and the fact of actually teaching of logic, since most people are ignorant of logic, especially as it applies to their linguistic expression. He suggests that linguistic creativity be the basis for measurement, citing the &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, he never addresses the issue on a basis of cultural development. The tests he proposes measure individual creativity, and not cultural creativity. A far better test might be the comparative group solving of problems requiring significant creativity and linguistic interaction in the target language, and measuring either speed or quality of results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This example shows how Dr. Brown&#039;s elucidation, while in itself severely flawed, is useful in pointing to a better approach; the above alternative test was composed &#039;at the computer&#039; as this is written, merely on rereading the relevant section.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another problem is Dr. Brown&#039;s failure to take into account the bias imposed by the teachers of these workshops. Recalling the difficulty in motivating disinterested students in learning a language, one cannot imagine trying to teach them Loglan without engaging in the type of word-play and linguistic experimentation that the experiment is supposed to measure. This would be especially heightened if the teachers are today&#039;s loglanists, as Dr. Brown proposes; we all recall what inspired our passionate interest in Loglan and would be unable to teach it to others without passing along that which we found inspiring. It is unlikely that Chinese and French teachers could be found that could emphasize the same mix of skills and interests as the Loglan teachers of this generation, and Dr. Brown, while addressing several other biases, does not appear to recognize this one in his at-tempt to convince people of the relative immediacy of a possible Sapir-Whorf test.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps the strongest evidence of Dr. Brown&#039;s inadequate analysis of the problem is his method of eliminating what he calls &amp;quot;host culture effects&amp;quot;. He chooses the three languages to be taught on the basis that French is a lot like English, while Chinese is different, in ways he presumes are like Lojban&#039;s (He never says why Lojban is more extreme than Chinese in ways that would increase linguistic creativity). He predicts that this comparison would cancel effects not due to the languages themselves,with succeedingly higher &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; in comparing French to Chinese to Loglan students. (He doesn&#039;t explain why this test couldn&#039;t be done with three natural languages first, if only to prove the methodology.)&lt;br /&gt;
To eliminate host country effects, he then suggests that French students be given the same program, with the expected results to be increasing from English to Chinese to Lojban. He also proposes a similar test for Chinese students, but never indicates the results that would be expected (which are indeterminate with regard to his method-ology, since English and French are supposedly equidistant from Chinese, while Loglan is an unknown difference from Chinese - presumably less, but skewed in a direction that would increase &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; as much the &#039;short distance&#039; would minimize them).  &lt;br /&gt;
For long-term effects, Dr. Brown proposes a five-year period of relatively low levels of monitoring and control. He indicates some of the difficulties of monitoring such long-term studies, but forgets the obvious one. Why would the students, by design not especially interested in Loglan to begin with, be expected to continue to grow in fluency and usage? Where is the &#039;cultural environment&#039; wherein they would interact to grow in this manner? If their lifestyle and interactions with others do not demand use of loglandic features that would generate &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; to be tested, such as logical competence, it is unlikely that any such effects will be noticed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As an comparative example, how many English speakers can identify the implications of a restrictive vs. a non- restrictive relative clause even a week after the grammar test, even though that is a structure basic to English grammar (as well as Loglan&#039;s). (One of our respondents indicates that most college graduates don&#039;t even clearly remember the difference between nouns, verbs, and adjectives, five years after college. This may indicate why many Americans can&#039;t write cogently, and why these parts of speech are blending together; e.g., using &#039;impact&#039; as a verb. Dr. Brown suggests, while discussing metaphor relations, that English and European languages may be evolving towards this loglandic ideal.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interestingly, Dr. Brown doesn&#039;t mention any testing implications related to the &#039;metaphysical parsimony&#039; that is a basic design principle of the language. What &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; might be expected by the optional tense approach? Dr.Brown doesn&#039;t discuss this, nor does he suggest a comparison with the Hopi language and culture that led Whorf to his hypothesis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These reviewers believe that Dr. Brown has made no case that suggests that Sapir-Whorf testing is plausible without at least second-generation bi-lingual speakers who can interact in a significantly loglandic environment. In fact, theproblems he foresees suggest that it is harder than originally perceived to isolate variables that would invalidate test results. However, by at least discussing the topic, after years of silence, Dr. Brown has made it possible for others to build on his work, perhaps solving the problems that seem to make a Sapir-Whorf test impractical in the near future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our conclusion is that Dr. Brown has made a start towards a Sapir-Whorf test strategy, but that his approach is academically weak. He embarrasses his &#039;advisors&#039;, including scholars noteworthy in the fields of linguistics, anthropology, and language education, by suggesting their presumed approval of this approach. It is little wonder that the NSF proposals in the mid-70s did not impress the linguistics experts that reviewed them, who were possibly more committed to a thorough peer review of the program than was Dr. Brown&#039;s team.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== from pc (John Parks-Clifford) ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised that Jim&#039;s discussion made no mention of the two big projects on the Whorf Hypothesis (WH) (and related stuff) held in the early 50&#039;s. Surely these conferences must have influenced him to think about the issue, if only indirectly. Moreover, they were the biggest (and so far as I can find, the only) major projects - government and foundation grants, great lists of top-ranking second-raters as participants - ever conducted on WH. All the fields involved went off in other directions shortly after the proceedings were published in 1954 and 1958. The most sharply focussed (on WH) was held at U/Chicago in March 1953 with a Ford grant. The papers and the discussions around them we reedited by Harry Hoijer (from whom I first got doses of WH) and published by U/Chicago Press in 1954 as Language and Culture. The other, at U/Michigan using grants from Rockefeller and Ford, ran through the academic year 1951-2. It&#039;s results, which start at WH but go far afield (a lot of philosophers involved in this one) were summarized by Paul Hanlein Language, Thought, and Culture published in 1958 by U/Michigan Press, reprinted in paperback in 1965. I haven&#039;t looked at either in 20 years, so I don&#039;t remember much about conclusions (except that they were generally negative, I seem to recall) or any details. Still, they seem like a good place to get through in any discussion of WH.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre style=&amp;quot;text-align: center&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
ko lifri le gleki ni&#039;ornanca&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_9_moi&amp;diff=124075</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_9_moi&amp;diff=124075"/>
		<updated>2020-08-12T00:45:31Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 10 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
___TOC___&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane,&lt;br /&gt;
Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Number 9 - June-July 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA (703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli is the quarterly journal of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz. la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is separately published under the name le lojbo karni.  Issue #9 of le lojbo karni (LK9) was mailed in early May, as part of our effort to move our publication schedule up by one month. You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.  Issue #10 of both publications should be distributed in August or early September.  Some 280 of you will receive this issue of Ju&#039;i Lobypli; we are approaching 500 subscribers to le lojbo karni.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our thanks to those of you who responded to our plea for contributions and donations.  We aren&#039;t out of the woods yet, but neither are we afraid of not being able to pay for this issue - a real fear last time.  We received several donations of $100 or more, making up the deficit in the bank account, and for the first time, we have over 100 people with positive balances.  We still have a negative net worth, though.  So, we would still like to have those of you with negative balances either to bring them positive or to let us know that you are interested even though you cannot afford to pay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we still have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may,if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make yougifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Contents of This Issue &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue contains an attachment with the rafsi sorted alphabetically.  There are three lists, in CVC, CVV, and CCV forms. We have a discussion of the Lojban design of mathematical expressions (MEX).  Sheldon Linker provides some latebut significant comment on the algorithm used by us (and in previous versions of the language by Dr. James Cooke Brown)to make gismu. We have Lojban text from class members and two self-teaching students, the text of the skit (written byNora) presented at LogFest by the DC area class.  We have a short report on some recent major events occurring since LK9, including LogFest 89; a more complete report will be in LK10.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
News Update						    -----2&lt;br /&gt;
Commentary on the Loglan/Lojban	gismu Lexicon		    -----4&lt;br /&gt;
   On Constructing a Lexicon for an Artificial Language	- by Sheldon Linker	-----4&lt;br /&gt;
   Bob&#039;s Summary of the	gismu Algorithm			    -----6&lt;br /&gt;
   Bob&#039;s Response to Sheldon&#039;s Critique			    -----7&lt;br /&gt;
Special	Section	- Mathematics and Lojban		    ----11&lt;br /&gt;
   &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039; by Robert Strichartz&lt;br /&gt;
      -	reprinted with permission from &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;	   ----11&lt;br /&gt;
   Our Submitted Response to Dr. Strichartz&#039;s Article	    ----13&lt;br /&gt;
   On the Lojban Design	for Mathematical Expression (MEX)   ----15&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska					    ----19&lt;br /&gt;
   Self	Descriptions by	Lojban Students			    ----19&lt;br /&gt;
   With	Apologies to Spock by Bob LeChevalier		    ----20&lt;br /&gt;
   A Story from	Another	Culture	by Preston Maxwell (with corrections by	Bob and	Nora)	  ----21&lt;br /&gt;
   la sinderelwud. by Nora LeChevalier			    ----21&lt;br /&gt;
   lei lojbo by	Nora LeChevalier			    ----28&lt;br /&gt;
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska			    ----28&lt;br /&gt;
SCRABBLEtm for Lojban					    ----33&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Editorial Conventions			    ----36&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attachment - Lojban rafsi Sorted Alphabetically&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== News Update ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue was delayed a bit due to preparations for LogFest, coupled with an effort to get copies of the updated Synopsis to all people at level 1 or higher.  We also had our normal class preparations, and a pleasurably higher level of new responses, contributions, and orders, all of which took away from my time to prepare this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some significant things have happened since LK9 was written, and we don&#039;t want to make people wait until August to hear about them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Some 40 of you are now receiving the lessons as they are prepared, as opposed to waiting for the textbook completion,   currently scheduled for late this year.&lt;br /&gt;
# I have short update notes on the draft cmavo list that will be sent to all of you who I have down as having received the draft list.  This is being sent on a fairly low priority, though.&lt;br /&gt;
# Athelstan was forced to cancel his trip to the West Coast due to a severe case of poison ivy, compounded by (Murphy&#039;s Law!) problems with his car.  We apologize to all of you who were expecting him.  We also want to thank those of you who offered sleeping space or who were attempting to organize meetings with him.  Hopefully, at the very least the effort will stir some of you to get together with others who are in your area.&lt;br /&gt;
# The day I took LK9 to the printer, I was told that we would now be charged only 3 cents/page for orders of 25 or more copies instead of the previous 100 copy minimum.  This allows us to significantly reduce our prices for draft text-   book lessons, draft cmavo lists, and the draft machine grammar from the prices included in the last issue.  We are going to a 2-page order form that contains more description of the materials and explains our current prices.  The prices indicated have been in effect since approximately 1 June.&lt;br /&gt;
# Athelstan was able to attend LogFest 89 (albeit in considerable discomfort), along with 20 others, half of them from out-of-state.  Most people stayed for the whole weekend.  We had hoped for a larger attendance, but those who came were among the most serious students of the language - thus LogFest activities were more advanced than in previous years.  The local class put on the skit whose text is included in le lojbo se ciska below. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Brad Lowry and new Lojbanist Elliott Deal videotaped significant portions of LogFest, and interviewed most attendees.  The results will be used to make one or more Lojban videos.  The first, a short loop tape &#039;commercial&#039;, should be completed within a few weeks, and will be used at Worldcon and other conventions and meetings. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Next year&#039;s LogFest will again be on the third weekend of June.  Unfortunately, there is no good alternative that allows John Parks-Clifford (pc) to attend and which also avoids the hottest part of the summer here in DC. June is hot enough. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt; Ralph Dumain attended LogFest, and led a discussion of his and others&#039; ideas on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis and how Lojban/Loglan might be used to test it. There was excellent cross-fertilization of ideas, and we hope to have three or four viewpoints summarized in the next issue of JL.  As noted in last issue, Ralph wrote a response to previous comments on his paper in JL6, and added a bibliography of some books he found interesting in regards to Sapir-Whorf and theories of &#039;linguistic relativism&#039;.  We have copies of Ralph&#039;s essays (about 10 pages) available on request, along with a similar length collection of material from JL6 and JL7 on the subject. &lt;br /&gt;
# The Loglan Institute, Inc. has announced publication of a new edition of Dr. James Cooke Brown&#039;s (JCB) Loglan 1. This book describes an update to what we believe to be a flawed version of the language.  The Institute is charging $24.00 for the paperback book of 600 pages.  It was supposed to be shipped as of 1 June, but, as of publication, neither we, nor any of our contacts, have received copies that were ordered.  The announcement includes a copy of the table of contents, which reveals that the basic structure and content of the book is unchanged from the 1975 edition.  There is a significant portion of the book devoted to various sorted gismu lists, rafsi lists, and cmavo lists (these are of course incompatible with, and superseded by, the Lojban lists). The notes on each chapter have been expanded; in the previous edition, these usually contained technical commentary and defenses against presumed criticisms of Dr. Brown&#039;s design. The book contains a new chapter (about 30 pages) on testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;As can be determined from the table of contents, the book&#039;s structure remains flawed; it is an overview and not a teaching tool.  In addition, it is known to be seriously incomplete.  JCB indicated in a separate letter to some people that he was intentionally omitting a complete specification of the grammar from the book in order to keep that grammar secret from la lojbangirz. for a while longer. He does not intend to make this grammar public for at least a year, and his version of a parser will intentionally not contain the grammar in a human usable form.  This doesn&#039;t hurt us - we have a satisfactory grammar that is probably more sophisticated than JCB&#039;s; it does make his whole effort rather worthless, since a language with a secret grammar is uninteresting and unusable. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The most serious criticism of JCB&#039;s scientific work is that he has failed to submit it to serious critical review by qualified reviewers who have knowledge of the language, most of whom are associated with us. He states that the language has changed significantly since the publication of Notebook 3 two years ago, a publication that was received by only a few dozen people; presumably only a couple of these reviewed the new book.  JCB has worked in a near-vacuum of outside review and support for the last 5 years, and we expect that his results will show this.  We doubt that anyone other than JCB, members of his family, and possibly Bob McIvor, who has been doing the computer work for the Institute, have any real knowledge of the current state of his version of the language. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt; We hopefully will have received a copy by next issue, and will offer a more thorough review at that time.  We are also soliciting reviews and comments from any of you who receive the book.  All comments, both positive and negative, will be collected together and made available to anyone who wants them (including JCB if he asks).  We are recommending that those of you who still have balances with the Institute consider using that balance productively to order the book.  Until there is evidence of lasting value, we cannot recommend sending additional money for the book.&lt;br /&gt;
# la lojbangirz. cannot be considered an unbiased reviewer of JCB&#039;s work, however we may try.  We were formed in opposition to his policies and his language design decisions.  In addition, we are now involved in a legal dispute with The Loglan Institute, Inc.  On May 23, after a unanimous vote of the Board of Directors, we filed a Petition for Cancellation of the Institute&#039;s registered trademark on &#039;Loglan&#039; for &#039;dictionaries and grammars&#039; on the grounds of fraud, and invalidity of the name as a trademark.  Bob, Nora, and Jeff Prothero had retained a legal firm specializing in trademark after the Institute threatened us with legal action last year. With our incorporation, it was recommended that the organization file the petition rather than individuals, as the trademark has a more serious effect on the organization as an entity, than on us as individuals. We of course believe that the trademark damages our ability to reach the community of people who know the language and language project under the name &#039;Loglan&#039;. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Because of our commitment to you not to use your money to fight this legal battle, we are maintaining a separate legal account.  We will use only money donated specifically for this legal fund for expenses related to the petition.  Bob, Nora, and Jeff have agreed to donate such money as is needed to pay the legal bills.  We will accept donations from others, but ask that your priority on donations be for general support of the organization. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Our expenses on this case will be included within the constraint of administrative and legal costs not exceeding 30% of total expenses.  This is not expected to be a problem. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;We continue to seek an amicable settlement of the issue with the Institute.  However, after delaying for 3 months, JCB rejected our proposed settlement without comment or counter-proposal, then went sailing in the Caribbean.  His negative response coincided with his announcement of the new edition of Loglan 1, leading us to believe that the delay was an attempt to stall until the book was published. In any case, you may wish to consider that payments to the Institute for Loglan 1 and other materials might be used in a legal battle against us. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Since the Institute has specifically indicated that it will not sell its grammar in the near future, and the obsolete 1976 dictionary has been out-of-print for over 10 years, its claim that it is using the supposed trademark for these goods seems ludicrous, but that is for the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to decide. &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;We will provide an update and more complete information in the next newsletter. Your comments and questions are welcome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Commentary on the Loglan/Lojban gismu Lexicon ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following paper discusses the methodology used to build Loglan/Lojban gismu, first devised by Dr. James Cooke Brown (JCB) and described in the 1960 Scientific American article.  We will summarize the algorithm after the paper for those unfamiliar with it.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Notwithstanding our baseline policy, it is still important to examine any and all assumptions that were a basis for the language design. Lojban will have to withstand questions and criticisms on several fronts in order to be accepted for any of its purposes.  Sheldon&#039;s paper, written by a friend of the language, questions these assumptions and allows us (and you) to evaluate the quality of our response in a non-hostile environment.  We thus welcome Sheldon&#039;s paper and commend his points to your con- sideration.  We will respond to some of them afterwards.        &lt;br /&gt;
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(Note - the sample gismu used by Sheldon are from an earlier version of the language, although his points apply to Lojban and other more recent versions.)&lt;br /&gt;
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=== On Constructing a Lexicon for an Artificial Language ===&lt;br /&gt;
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by Sheldon Linker &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;13612 Onkayha Circle, Irvine, California 92728 &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;714-552-1904 voice 714-552-6985 fax    &lt;br /&gt;
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Abstract:  This document presents a discussion of the Loglan/Lojban lexical axioms, and takes a second look.        &lt;br /&gt;
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==== Statement of Alignment ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Before I begin the technical discussion, I must take the time to include a note of a personal nature.  I have been asked (regarding the great Loglan/Lojban debate) &amp;quot;whose side&amp;quot; I am on.  I have always been interested in the type of technology which Loglan and Lojban represent.  Dr.Brown, in allowing me the incursions into Loglan which he did, forwarded my education immensely, and more than he realizes. For this, I will always be grateful.  Why, then is this article in Lojban, and not in &#039;The Loglanist&#039;?  I believe that here I will find a more receptive audience for this particular article.  In short, I am on the side of advancement of this new art.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Background ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Both Loglan and Lojban have a lexicon based on a few simple tenets:&lt;br /&gt;
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# The lexicon must be automatically separable:Some formal process must be able to separate words.&lt;br /&gt;
# Certain word forms belong to certain grammatical classes.&lt;br /&gt;
# There exists a formula (well known to the readers of this publication) which defines the recognition factor (the &amp;quot;score&amp;quot;) of the proposed word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Unfortunately, this formula has never been tested.  It seems strange to me that we have spent 34 years working on a set of languages without ever attempting to test one of our basic assumptions.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Purposes of the word-building rules ====&lt;br /&gt;
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There are several major purposes of the word-building rules:&lt;br /&gt;
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# Understandability:  The word-building rules are claimed to lead to the highest possible recognition factor, meaning that for the world&#039;s population, the greatest number of people will be able to recognize and understand the formulated word.&lt;br /&gt;
# The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis:  The word-building rules take into account words naturally built by a variety of languages and cultures, and intermix them,supposedly building a culture-free lexicon.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== Problems with the word-building rules ====&lt;br /&gt;
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First, let me take on problems with the Sapir-Whorf idea behind the word-building rules.  I claim that there is no such thing as a cultural connection to a language&#039;s lexiconconstruction.  A word is a collection of symbols, elicitingan ordered set of sounds, which in turn will or will not be recognized.  Once the word is recognized, cultural biases of the word or predication may be introduced by the listener, but not until then.  Thus, any purpose to word construction other than a means to recognize the given word down not apply.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, if the Sapir-Whorf connection did apply, the words should be built evenly across all languages, without regard to the populations speaking those languages.     Perhaps, if this were actually a factor, the language should be built evenly from Hopi, English, Chinese, and Swahili.  I&#039;ll not belabor this point.                     &lt;br /&gt;
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If, on the other hand, we are not interested in culture- free juxtapositions of letters taken from the English alphabet, then we must only consider the recognizability of words. This leads me to the number of languages which are used to build the lexicon.  It seems to me that there are only three ways to go when deciding on the number of languages to be included in the word-building formula:         &lt;br /&gt;
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# Use every language spoken in the world:  This would include little-spoken languages, such as Cornish, and languages spoken only by people who know other languages, such as Ladino.  The logic here is that if we are truly to have an accurate mixture of languages, let&#039;s not stop at an arbitrary limit.  If we should include all of the languages, we should include all of them.    &lt;br /&gt;
# Use the top seven languages in the world: Fine, some say that a limit must be set somewhere.  But why not six?  And why not eight?    &lt;br /&gt;
# Use only one language:  While this may seem a radical proposal, this is actually a pair of radical proposals:  One method is to use only one language and to make everyone else learn that language.  Since virtually every Loglanist and Lojbanist in the world speaks English, this would give a good place to start. The other option is to recognize that since words are just tokens, they may be mindlessly translated by a machine.  Thus, it is practical to have an English-based Loglan/Lojban vocabulary, and a Spanish one, and a Chinese one, and even a Latvian and a Sing Language version.&lt;br /&gt;
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Of all these methods, I personally favor the idea of having a number of single-language-based lexicons.  It would make the language much easier for all of us to learn. It would also make the language learnable by someone who is not an aficionado; the common folk might even see a properly constructed lexicon as a dialect, with a &amp;quot;funny grammar&amp;quot;.  If I write a letter using such a lexicon, and the intended recipient of the letter speaks only Japanese-based Loglan/Lojban, I could push a button on my word processor, and in a fraction of a second, a simple dictionary look-up gives us a translation, fully correct, as the grammars are identical.    &lt;br /&gt;
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There are more completely untested axioms:  Do we use,   as a weighting factor, the percentage of the world&#039;s population which speaks each language as their main language?  Do we use the percentage which speak the language, multiplied by the grade-level of use and under-   standing, divided by some constant?  Do we use the percent- age of the world&#039;s population who speak the language as their first of second language?  Do we use the percentage of the population which speak the language to any extent at all?    &lt;br /&gt;
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There are questions which I am not prepared to answer.  My point in bringing them up is to point out that nobody knows the answers to there questions.  Nobody has ever tested the recognition factors or anything like it to see what the weighting factors should be.&lt;br /&gt;
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==== New rules: ====&lt;br /&gt;
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There are some factors not previously considered in determining the recognition factor of a proposed word:&lt;br /&gt;
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# I believe, but have not tested this, that only contiguous groups of letters should count in building the recognition factor.  For instance, in the Loglan word MRENU, we are told that we have a 100% match (for English) on MEN.  However, I do not believe that anyone&#039;s mind joins the M to the EN in MRENU.  I believe that the R forces us to stop, and that only the EN component of the word can be used in the calculation. Thus, using the rule that only contiguous letters count, the English factor for MRENU is limited to 67%.&lt;br /&gt;
# I believe, but have not tested this, that we should not be counting or comparing the words letter-by-letter using Loglan or Lojban letters.  Rather, we should use the object language&#039;s phoneme set to count letters.  Thus, Loglan&#039;s MADJI should not be compared to English&#039;s MAGI as MADGAI (yielding 83%).  Rather, Loglan&#039;s MADJI should be rendered to object language to be sued, a comparison alphabet must first be devised.  There exists an alphabet, called the International Phonemic Alphabet, commonly known as IPA, ideally suited to this purpose, for most languages.&lt;br /&gt;
# If there exists a bigger word in the object language, then a smaller word cannot be used, as the larger word provides a bigger &amp;quot;handle&amp;quot; for cognition. For example, in the Loglan word GOTSO, we get a 100% match on GO. We also get a 100% match on SEW, GOAT, and GOATS.  Thus, we can keep the 100% match score for GOATS, but any attempt to use this word for GO or SOWs SHOULD RESULT IN AN English component score of 0%.&lt;br /&gt;
# If there exist more words in the object language the same size as the subject word, then the subject word score should be divided by the number of such words, as there is equal likelihood that the wrong word will be recognized as there is the likelihood that the correct word will be recognized.  For instance, in the Loglan word MRENU, we consider the letters EN (other letters could be considered, but this is a limited example).  EN appears as 67% of DEN, HEN, KEN (the verb), MEN, PEN, TEN, WHEN, YEN, ZEN, and END.  Thus, there are ten English matching words, not counting proper names, so the 67% score is divided by this ten, yielding a 6.7% score.&lt;br /&gt;
# If, in the object language, there exists a word in the language with a higher score than the subject word, then that subject word should receive a zero score, as it is not the most likely word to be recognized.  Thus, in the Loglan word MRENU, EN has a raw (undivided) score of 67% from MEN, but REN gets an undivided score of 75% from RENT. Once we start dividing, we get 25% (75% by RENT, WREN, and REND), as opposed to 6.7%.  Thus the score for MEN in MRENU is zero, as it will be overpowered by other words.    &lt;br /&gt;
# There should possibly be a factor for commonness of use.  For instance, a word based on UNDERSTANDING might be more likely recognized than a word based on KEN, and a word based on SAID might be more likely recognized than a word based on QUOTH.         &lt;br /&gt;
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==== Conclusion ====&lt;br /&gt;
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I may be correct in my statements and suggestions listed above, and I may be wrong in my suggestions for additional rules. But when anyone says that I am wrong, I will politely ask them to prove it. But if anyone tells me that I am right, I will shout &amp;quot;Prove it!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Bob&#039;s Summary of the gismu Algorithm ===&lt;br /&gt;
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Contrary to Sheldon&#039;s note, I suspect most readers have joined the project without having been told of the details of the word-making algorithm.  For those unfamiliar with the algorithm, here is a brief description:         &lt;br /&gt;
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JCB used 1950 language population estimates to select the 8 most commonly spoken languages.  (He claims to have investigated possible use of Arabic, then in 9th place, and found it to have no positive effect; he has never published supporting data, nor does he indicate what standards he used to decide on excluding it.)  For each proposed gismu to be constructed (which he called C-Prims), he looked up one or more word for the concept in each language.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Possible constructed words were then evaluated using a scoring algorithm for recognizability weighted among the source languages.  (Language population weights were based on first language speakers plus 1/2 of second language speakers.  The number of speakers of various languages is too uncertain to use any more refined algorithm.)  The words were expressed in &#039;Loglan phonemes&#039; similar to the process described for Lojbanization of names in lesson 1 of our textbook.  A score of 2 was given for two adjacent letters in a possible constructed word matching two adjacent letter phonemes in the Loglanized source word, or for the two same letters separated by a letter (possibly different) in both source and possible word.  A score of 3, 4, or 5, was given for the same letters appearing in both words in the same order, regardless of whether they appeared together or in matching patterns.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Scores were then divided by the length of the source word, and weighted by the fractional population for the source language.  Thus blanu (the word for &#039;blue&#039; in all versions of the language, including Lojban) gets 3/3 x 28%  for &#039;Loglanized&#039; English &amp;quot;blu&amp;quot; and 3/3 x 25% for &#039;Loglanized&#039; Chinese &amp;quot;lan&amp;quot;.  Chinese tones were ignored in scoring.                                                   &lt;br /&gt;
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JCB claims to have investigated the words in depth, and to have used speakers of the source languages for reference.  The results recorded in the 1976 dictionary reveal weak language scholarship often involving use of the wrong word, the use of several different Romanization techniques for Chinese that are contradictory, and the use of questionable synonyms which heightened the scores for English and Spanish.  (It is natural to be able to think of more cue words for a concept when you know the language better; this happened to us with Lojban, as well.)  The words selected were often not the highest possible scores,  as he found when he &#039;remade&#039; several of them around 1980 in order to assign unique rafsi.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Lojban gismu were made using the same algorithm, but using more recent linguistic population data.  We used recent dictionaries, but make no claims for our scholarship in Hindi, Arabic, and Chinese, although we did spot checks with speakers of these languages where possible. We used only 6 languages for four reasons:&lt;br /&gt;
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* there was ambiguity in the order for the next few languages;&lt;br /&gt;
* we could not get a good dictionary for Bengali, which was a plausible 7th or 8th language;&lt;br /&gt;
* each language added increased research and computer processing time;&lt;br /&gt;
* we tried experiments in which we found that using a language from another language family (like Malay-Indonesian, another candidate language) tended to muddy the results, giving many candidate words with nearly identical scores even though there was little similarity among them.&lt;br /&gt;
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We also experimented with variations in the scoring algorithm.  Including Chinese tones merely reduced the Chinese weights by a predictable fraction, since every Chinese word has tones that are lost in Lojban.  This also resulted in many tie scores, since that reduced weight nearly equalized Chinese and English scores.  We have retained all of our input data and results for later analysis and reference.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was noted that the computer usually found at least one possible word form higher than the typical human guesses for the best choice, thus causing greater suspicion of the results of JCB&#039;s manual techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
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In our final word choices, we often took choices that were not the highest scores in order to increase coverage of rafsi assignments.&lt;br /&gt;
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In spite of the frequent ties between unrelated words,  the concept of randomly assigned words, chosen solely for rafsi assignment purposes, was discussed by the community  (at a LogFest) and rejected by consensus. As part of the gismu baseline decision last year, however, any future words will have a lower priority placed on recognition score than on rafsi assignment needs.  It was also decided that words would not be remade based on questions of the suitability of the algorithm that we used.&lt;br /&gt;
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The description of the algorithm answers some of Sheldon&#039;s questions, although perhaps not to his satisfaction.  I&#039;ll look now at his reasoning and proposals.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Bob&#039;s Response to Sheldon&#039;s Critique ===&lt;br /&gt;
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First of all, I agree with the concept behind Sheldon&#039;s basic argument:  it is true that neither JCB nor the Lojban gismu list workers did sufficient scientific research as to the validity of the methodology used to build gismu.    &lt;br /&gt;
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An example: JCB has never given a real rationale for the claim that his algorithm gives any meaningful statistic about recognizability. I suspect that he made an educated guess based on his own experiences.  Sheldon&#039;s counterexamples (for example with &#039;GOTSO&#039;) show that that guess may not have been perfect.    &lt;br /&gt;
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I have problems with most of the detailed ideas Sheldon presents.  He leaves out a lot of important information about his counterexamples, information that I believe renders them invalid.  I must start by questioning his assumptions.         &lt;br /&gt;
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==== Assumptions About Word-Making ====&lt;br /&gt;
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The first two assumptions given in Sheldon&#039;s background section are fine, if somewhat oversimplified.  In addition to what he has stated, the lexicon must be audiovisually isomorphic - the spoken language must uniquely reflect the written language and vice-versa.    &lt;br /&gt;
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The third assumption, which Sheldon questions, is not nearly as basic to the language as the others. Both JCB and la lojbangirz. have made some gismu without using the   &#039;recognition factor&#039; algorithm where we felt it appropriate - the formula was a means to an end, not an end in itself. &lt;br /&gt;
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The desired goal is a lexicon which is reasonably independent of any single natural language, while still easy to learn. If the lexicon were tied to a single language, the semantics of that source language would heavily color Loglan/Lojban semantics. If Sapir-Whorf is true to any extent, linguistics experiments using the language would be expected to be affected by whether an experimental subject came from the same culture or from a different culture as the single source language.  This is one of the principal arguments against an &#039;Anglan&#039;, as proposed and discussed in JL6 and JL7. See those issues for more on the several arguments against a single language source for the lexicon.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Sheldon claims that there is no connection between culture and the construction of a language lexicon.  There is counter-evidence to this claim.  Some languages like Finnish and Turkish are agglutinative, they build words out of root pieces, just as Lojban does.  English is less so,   but uses a few suffixes and prefixes.  Other languages are highly inflected - the form of the word varies depending on its grammatical position.  It can safely be argued that, if there is a tie between the structure of a language and culture (per Sapir-Whorf), that these varying approaches to a lexicon could affect and be affected by culture.  If we do not assume that Sapir-Whorf might be true, we cannot use Lojban to test it.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Arabic is an extreme case.  The roots of Arabic are reflected entirely in consonants - vowels are inserted and varied to cause small changes in grammatical usage or semantic meaning.  In addition, the consonants can vary some as well, especially in whether they are voiced or unvoiced.  This caused a lot of problem with the Lojban algorithm, which does not recognize a difference between vowels and consonants for scoring purposes, and considers voiced/unvoiced consonant pairs to be as different from each other as from other consonants.&lt;br /&gt;
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The word-making algorithm ignores all of historical linguistics, which documents certain sound shifts as being especially common or likely in the development of a language&#039;s lexicon.  These sound shifts tell us that some consonants are more alike than others, and that vowel differences in words are relatively unimportant.  Learning these Indo-European sound shifts is especially useful to an English speaker studying other European languages, since cognates can be recognized that otherwise appear or sound very dis-similar to the native language word.  Sound shifts have other important roles.  In English, changing a word from a verb to a noun or an adjective involves adding a suffix and often performing a sound shift.  Compare &#039;act&#039;  (/ekt/ in Lojbanized form) and &#039;action&#039; (/ek-can/); the &#039;t&#039;  becomes silent, and may not be as important to recognition as the /ek/ root. Russian, with its extensive set of declensions, changes stress and final consonants in many of them.  The stress changes usually cause a Lojbanically significant vowel shift.  We had no way to take this into account in the algorithm, and used the root form, trying to drop the shifting trailer wherever possible.  It seems likely that there would have been better ways to reflect the sound shifts in estimating recognizability.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other factors not accounted for by the algorithm include the appearance of non-Lojban phonemes in the source languages, such as tones in Chinese.  A related factor stems from the fact that many Russian root words are longer than Lojban&#039;s 5-letter gismu, while Chinese roots are shorter.  Chinese roots that end in a consonant almost always ends in a sound that Lojbanizes as &#039;n&#039;.  These factors all skew lexicons, and perhaps cultures.  They definitely lead to those languages not being equally represented in Lojban according to their population weights or their recognition scores.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sheldon argues that cultural neutrality would dictate that words be built evenly across all languages regardless of populations of speakers.  Possibly true, but this leads to an unworkable algorithm, since for any given word we have only 3 consonants and 2 vowels to play with. Equal weights on languages would lead to tie scores on several possible combinations, giving no basis to choose words.  (We tried it - in fact equal weights on Chinese and English alone caused this problem.)  A &#039;better&#039; solution to cultural neutrality would be random words, chosen to optimize the rafsi selections, but this leads to no apparent benefits in learning the words.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the algorithm we used, or something similar to that algorithm, maximizes cognate value, yet leads to most words being different from comparable words in each source language, minimizing semantic transference.  This is a delicate trade-off, that give more learnability than random words, while promoting cultural neutrality and a separate identity as a language.&lt;br /&gt;
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The weighting based on language population is only one possible way to get needed non-equal weights for non-tie scores.  It gives at least the appearance of an attempt to not make the language too relatively easy for people from one particular culture (especially the English-speaking one), offering a little bit of a political advantage in winning interest from other cultures.  The emphasis is placed on getting broad input from multiple source languages, giving speakers of each of them a few hooks to learn by.    &lt;br /&gt;
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Beyond the question of trading off cultural neutrality vs. learnability, there is very little reason to choose one algorithm over another.  Lojban used the same algorithm as JCB did because our goal at the time was to remake the words with a minimum time and effort without introducing new questionable procedures, especially ones that would make it impossible to obtain reconciliation with JCB at some later time.    &lt;br /&gt;
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It is vital to see that the actual words used are relatively unimportant to Lojban&#039;s acceptability; this is fundamental to our argument that Lojban is essentially the same language as JCB&#039;s earlier versions.  The major requirements are that they be a reasonably complete and ra- tional set of words, that they be compatible with the morphology, and that they have a viable set of rafsi.  If they are easy to learn, that is a benefit.  JCB&#039;s emphasis on the word-making algorithm in the 1960 Scientific American article exaggerates its true importance; there was really very little else that JCB could have talked about then, since the language was little more than a vocabulary list and a grammar concept when the article was written.        &lt;br /&gt;
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==== Problems With Sheldon&#039;s Counterexamples ====&lt;br /&gt;
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Sheldon uses some 1976 gismu in his discussion of possible alternative rules.  In a telephone conversation, he indicated that he had done an informal test of some of these rules.  He doesn&#039;t clearly report this in his article, but I suspect that the test was invalid, anyway.  &lt;br /&gt;
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The reason I feel this way is the misconception embedded in his new rule #3.  He claims that &#039;gotso&#039; is more recognized as &#039;goats&#039; than as &#039;go&#039;, and that to use it for any shorter word than &#039;goats&#039; should rate a 0 score.  This would be true only for someone who didn&#039;t know the basis for word-making.    &lt;br /&gt;
First of all, Loglan/Lojban would never have a gismu for &#039;goats&#039;, since we do not have separate roots for plurals.   Second, we know that short English words are most likely to be found among the gismu concepts (by Zipf&#039;s law, which says that the length of a word is inversely proportional to its frequency of occurrence).  Therefore, someone seriously learning the language and attempting to guess the word from pure cognate recognition would try the shortest common word that is recognizable from the gismu, not the longest.    &lt;br /&gt;
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I challenge Sheldon to come up with any valid gismu-form 5-letter word based on &#039;understanding&#039; that is recognizable, much less more recognizable than one based on &#039;ken&#039; (as he suggests in rule 6.  It turns out that the Lojban for that concept, &amp;quot;jimpe&amp;quot;, derives from &#039;comprehend&#039; (Lojbanized as /kamprixend/ getting a score of 3/10).  I will be the first to admit that I would never see this word in &amp;quot;jimpe&amp;quot; without being told it.  But given that informa-  tion, I may remember the &#039;mp&#039; cluster in the middle of the word - letters I might otherwise forget.  To give &amp;quot;jimpe&amp;quot; a score of 0 is underweighting; 3/10 of 18% (5.4) is a quite low score.  It is true that &amp;quot;jimpe&amp;quot; more strongly suggests  &amp;quot;jump&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;imp&amp;quot;, but the tie to &amp;quot;comprehend&amp;quot; is real and worth a little bit, if not much.&lt;br /&gt;
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This brings out my major point; the word recognition scores are supposed to reflect an ease in devising cognate aids to both your recognition and recall. Both directions are important; Sheldon concentrates on recognition problems, even though recall of the Lojban given the English is the harder skill to learn.  While he may not see  &#039;go&#039; in &#039;gotso&#039;, surely given the word &#039;go&#039;, he will more likely think of &#039;gotso&#039; than &#039;mrenu&#039; as being the word to remember.&lt;br /&gt;
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In practice, people develop their own memory hooks for each word that they try to learn. If the word has a cognate value, they have some clue to recall it by.  If there is none, they have to devise some non-English cognate basis.  So if they know one or more of the others of our source languages, they may get some cognate value from the words for the concept from those languages.  But even if a word has a score of 0 (many Lojban words have a 0 English score), this doesn&#039;t mean that the word is difficult to learn.  The Lojban word for &amp;quot;child&amp;quot; is &amp;quot;verba&amp;quot;, obviously with a 0 score.  After having had a seven-year old around during most of June, I have NO TROUBLE AT ALL remembering that one, either by the cognate &amp;quot;verb&amp;quot; for the activity level, or &amp;quot;verbal&amp;quot; for the noise level.&lt;br /&gt;
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So &#039;recognition scores&#039; are NOT expected to be an accurate measure of learnability for the word.  We would expect there to be some correlation between &#039;recognition scores&#039; and the rate of learning. Sheldon is right in saying that this particular algorithm has never been verified to correlate with learnability; he is almost certainly correct in saying that there are probably algorithms that would correlate better.&lt;br /&gt;
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Sheldon proposes 6 rules that he would like to see incorporated in the word-making algorithm.  He doesn&#039;t actually write a resulting algorithm, so it is hard to see how these rules would be incorporated.  His rule #4 would be unworkable in Chinese - almost every word has multiple meanings determined by tone, and every partial word can be found in an even larger number of words.  However, I can&#039;t say that his approach is wrong, because I haven&#039;t tested it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since the words are made, we could say that the point is moot and who cares whether recognition scores mean anything. We wouldn&#039;t redo the words if a negative correlation was found; this would be unfair to the people who have started to learn the language.  Stability is more important than an idealized algorithm.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, since Lojban IS first and foremost a scientific experiment, I agree with Sheldon that the algorithm should be tested for validity, if only to find out the truth about our assumptions on learnability as an exercise in scientific integrity.  In any case, Lojban will be criticized and questioned for years to come by newcomers,  and it would be useful to have an answer. We also might learn some meaningful truths about how people learn foreign languages, truths that would not be limited to Lojban learning.  In this way we might make a contribution to education independent of any value Lojban has in itself as a language tool.&lt;br /&gt;
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It turns out that a basic version of such a test is not at all difficult to conduct, and can be performed at any time.  We simply instrument LogFlash to gather statistics on individual words, recording how long is spent learning both to recognize and to recall them.  For any individual user, this data should correlate statistically with English (or whatever the person&#039;s native language is) recognition scores.  So we could get meaningful data from a single user, and reduce dependency on other variables by taking data from several users.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Instrumenting LogFlash is trivial; we could do it in a day or two.  We would need volunteers who could commit to consistently using the program.  If the person skips a couple of days now and then, the scores for the words being studied will be skewed; we know from user experience that irregular habits are far more significant than other factors in learning rate.  But we can even record lesson dates and times to allow filtering of invalid data, though I&#039;m not sure what threshold for filtering would be appropriate.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have our words, and their recognition scores using our current algorithm. Sheldon, or any one else, could generate recognition scores for our words using his or any other algorithm.  Some scores using these algorithms on our words might be low, and some might be high; it doesn&#039;t matter.  We simply look for a correlation between scores and actual learning rates.  If an algorithm has a greater correlation with learning than ours, it suggests that that algorithm would have been better used instead of ours to make the words.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The experiment could be extended to make words using a new algorithm, but I think it would be invalid to do so.    Lojban learners have motivation to learn Lojban words, so that they can use the language.  There is no comparable motivation to learn another set of words that isn&#039;t being used; it would also be unfair to ask someone to spend time to learn a bunch of gismu that aren&#039;t going to be used.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But even the simpler test will meet Sheldon&#039;s standard,  and prove or disprove the usefulness of our algorithm.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If people want to seriously volunteer for this experiment, and are willing to make the commitment to science to regularly use LogFlash, Nora and I will make an instrumented program.  We&#039;ll even give people the program for free conditional on their following through and returning a data disk.  We do need to know what your education level is, how many years of what languages you have studied, and at what grade level; this type of thing is needed to provide the scientists with information on other variables; scientists also may want other basic statistical data like age, sex, field of employment, etc. if we get data from enough people to make this useful.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ll provide raw data (and possibly reduced data as well) to anyone who wants to research and test their own algorithm, including Sheldon and JCB (if he decides he wants to conduct his own tests).    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully, Sheldon, you will be first on the list of LogFlash volunteers!  Then you can prove it to yourself!   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== A Short Note on Another Experiment ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, there is already one other experiment that has been proposed and agreed upon, though unrelated to Sheldon&#039;s paper.  pc has identified a standard test which measures &#039;logical thinking&#039;.  He has proposed it be given to a set of Lojban students before they start studying the language, and then again after they have completed a class  (or become fluent).  This could be a first data point in identifying a means of measuring possible &#039;Whorfian effects&#039; of Lojban.     pc expects to provide me with copies of the test when he gets back to St. Louis around Labor Day, and we will definitely be using it on any following local classes,  while encouraging any people starting to learn the language elsewhere to help pc&#039;s research effort.  We will announce details and criteria later, but it seems both interesting and relevant to note that the application of Lojban to scientific questions has begun.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Special Section - Mathematics and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The possible usage of Lojban for machine translation discussed in the last issue has particular application in the area of scientific and technical writing.  Dr. Robert Strichartz of Cornell University wrote the following article describing what he perceived as the requirements for a &#039;logical&#039; language oriented towards mathematical communication.  Several readers pointed the article out to us, and we received permission from the editor of &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot; to reprint it.  We also include our submitted response to &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;.  We have been told that a shortened form of this response will be printed later this year.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since the subject is mathematical expression, an area of Lojban&#039;s design that has been discussed very little, I am taking the opportunity to give an overview of our perceived requirements and the resulting design that is currently in the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB has made several attempts to deal with the problem he labelled as &#039;MEX&#039; (for mathematical expressions).  He has indicated that he feels the problem to be separate from that of completing the language, and something that he does not plan to address further (and does not address in Loglan 1, according to his Table of Contents).  I and others within la lojbangirz. feel that the language is incomplete without some such design, even if it is less than perfect.  I believe that the design described here addresses the requirements of international mathematical expression,  while staying within the framework of the rest of the language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve had a thought-out concept for MEX ever since the LogFest in June 1987, but have never before tried to set it down in words.  (The resulting design, of course, has been embedded in cmavo and an unambiguous grammar for several months.)  This issue seems like a good place to open this concept to the review and scrutiny of others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presentation given is only an overview. Some of the design exists only as rules in the grammar and pre-assigned cmavo; these will be fleshed out when I write the textbook sections on the subject.         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== An International Language for Mathematics ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An International Language for Mathematics &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by Robert Strichartz &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;reprinted with permission from &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An International Language for Mathematics &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Robert S. Strichartz&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reprinted with permission from The Mathematical Intelligencer, Volume 11, No. 1.  Copyright 1989 Springer-Verlag New York&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mathematics has long been an international discipline.  Euler, a German-speaking Swiss, spent much of his career in Russia, but by writing primarily in Latin he could be assured that all his contemporaries could read his works.  It has been a long time since Latin was the universal language of scholarly writing.  Some would say - and many more would hope - that English has taken its place.  If so, this has been a short-term phenomenon, a result of successful American cultural imperialism; we certainly cannot rely on it continuing indefinitely.  And there are still many exceptions to the rule that all important mathematical writing is in English (or rapidly translated into English). The French persist in writing in their language, and the Russians produce a body of Russian language mathematics of large volume and high quality. The Germans, Italians,     Hispanics, and Japanese have by and large capitulated; we do not know what the Chinese will do as they become a mathematical superpower.  Therefore, to accept English as the international language of mathematics strikes me as short-sighted, presumptuous, and dangerous.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given that mathematicians will be writing in a number of different languages, what are the prospects for rapid and intelligible translations?  Recently, the mathematics library at Cornell suggested the possibility of dropping its subscriptions to some translated Russian journals in order to save money.  The reasoning is that these journals are not frequently used, and we already receive the Russian-language originals, so our collection would remain complete.  Alas, only the Russian-born among us can read them.  The reason we do not drop the subscriptions to the originals is that their cost is negligible in comparison to the cost of the translations.  The translation process is a time-consuming and difficult task, and the results are sometimes unsatisfactory when the translators do not understand the texts as mathematics.  To translate an entire journal cover to cover certainly seems inefficient,  when only a few of the translations will actually be read at a particular library.  On the other hand, the cost of translating articles on demand may also be prohibitively expensive.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The computer would seem the natural solution to our translating problem.  Of course, attempts so far to have automatic computer translation of general texts have not been successful.  I would guess that some modification of G”del&#039;s Incompleteness Theorem would show that automatic translation, if not impossible, is at least an extremely difficult task.  However, such problems would not necessarily arise for translation of texts that were designed in advance for easy translation. Mathematical texts use a limited vocabulary in a very stylized way, and thus suitable prepared mathematical text would seem the first plausible candidates for an automatic translation system based on an international language that would serve as an intermediary between different natural languages.  Say we call this language Intermath; a mathematician writing in English would have her text automatically translated into Intermath.  No one would read the text in Intermath, but a Chinese mathematician could have the Intermath text automatically translated into Chinese.  To ensure the correctness of the translation, the author would simply have the Intermath translation of the text automatically translated back into English (presumably the computer would not be allowed to cheat by peeking at the original).  If the sense of the text is preserved, then the translation into Intermath is correct; if not, the author will have to correct the errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What would be involved in setting up such a system?  We already have a simple model of what a mathematical language might be in the formal languages of mathematical logic.  In principle these languages are capable of expressing any mathematical argument, although in practice such expressions would be overly complicated.  This is not surprising if we remember that these formal languages were created for the purpose of studying the algebra of mathematical proof, so a premium was put on limiting the number of symbols and the different ways they can be combined.  Intermath, as a formal language, would be created to embody all the different ways of expression used by mathematicians in their normal modes of writing.  The inventors of Intermath will have to examine actual mathematical texts to see how language is used, and then capture these uses in Intermath.  A medium-sized vocabulary of technical terms will be needed; they will have to be updated from time to time to include newly coined terms.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An automatic translation program back and forth between all the natural languages and Intermath will have to be written, along with a program for modifying Intermath text by a user who does not know Intermath.  The underlying as-  sumption is that every sentence of a mathematical text has an unambiguous meaning, and so can be translated into an Intermath sentence.  Undoubtedly there are many ways of realizing the meaning of a mathematical sentence in a natural language, so an Intermath translated text may lack the spontaneity and stylistic elegance of a well-written text.  Also, a portion of the text, especially in the introduction and in motivating remarks, may be beyond the reach of the Intermath language.  But on balance, aren&#039;t we better off having a translation that is accurate and intelligible, even if it is stylistically tedious and missing a few paragraphs?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How much would mathematical writers have to change their practices in order to produce a text that would be suitable for automatic translation into Intermath? This is probably the key issue that will determine whether an Intermath system can be used.  If we cannot write, &amp;quot;there are an infinite number of primes,&amp;quot; but are forced to substitute,   &amp;quot;the cardinality of the set of prime numbers in infinite,&amp;quot;  I am afraid we will all curse the system and do what we can to sabotage its adoption.  On the other hand, if all we are required to do is answer a few queries about ambiguous sentences, I don&#039;t think very many of us will object.     Probably we cannot know how such a system would work until one is constructed and tested. But even in the worst case, if such a system proved impractical, I still think we would learn a lot about the way mathematics is written.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who would construct the system, and who would finance it?  I think the project is challenging enough that talented mathematicians, computer scientists, and linguists would work on it, provided it was funded.  Therefore I appeal to the professional mathematical societies to consider organizing and funding such a project.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The benefits of such a project would extend beyond the mathematical community.  No doubt other sciences and technical disciplines might imitate the idea successfully.  Also, by strengthening the tradition of international co-   operation in mathematics (and other cultural disciplines),  the creation of an international mathematical language may help to build some bridges between the peoples of this planet.  Our governments may never be able, on their own,   to break out of the quagmire of hostility and warfare that has characterized international relations since time immemorial.  But we, the mathematicians of the world, can maintain a system of international relations based on cooperation, friendship and mutual respect that can serve as a model for others to follow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Our Submitted Response to Dr. Strichartz&#039;s Article ===&lt;br /&gt;
9 May 1989&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Sheldon Axler &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Editor, The Mathematical Intelligencer &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Dept. of Mathematics &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;Michigan State University, MI 48824&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Axler:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This letter is submitted in response to Robert Strichartz&#039;s essay (Vol. 11, No. 1) on &amp;quot;An International Language for Mathematics&amp;quot;.  In that essay, Dr. Strichartz proposes the development of an artificial language, which he calls &#039;Intermath&#039;, as an interlingua that could be used in computer-aided translation of mathematical text.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Strichartz identifies some properties that such a language might possess:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It should be modelled on the formal language of mathematical logic;    &lt;br /&gt;
* It should extend beyond that formal language &amp;quot;to embody all the different ways of expression used by mathematicians in their normal modes of writing&amp;quot;;         &lt;br /&gt;
* It should have a vocabulary including technical terms which can be readily expanded to include newly coined words;&lt;br /&gt;
* It should embody the &#039;unambiguous meaning&#039; underlying mathematical text, without necessarily preserving stylistic features;&lt;br /&gt;
* It should be amenable to machine translation techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am pleased to report that a language has already been developed which meets the criteria described by Dr. Strichartz.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban (pronounced /LOZH,bahn/) is the latest version of the language first described by Dr. James Cooke Brown in  &amp;quot;Loglan&amp;quot;, Scientific American, June 1960. Dr. Brown started the Loglan project in 1955 as an attempt to develop a language as a test tool for experiments relating to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis of linguistics.  Dr. Brown&#039;s formulation of that hypothesis was that the structure of a language constrains the thought of a culture that uses that language. Thus, as a corollary, a language which embodied a structure that was drastically different from any natural language, and which minimized metaphysical assumptions that might be considered &#039;cultural biases&#039;, might detectably alter the hypothetical constraints.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Brown modelled his grammar on predicate logic, and specifically included grammatical techniques of clearly and unambiguously expressing logical connectives and other concepts that are not easily expressed in English and other languages.  The language was also designed to be audiovisually isomorphic: spelling is completely phonetic,  each sound corresponds to exactly one letter, and a stream of speech can be uniquely resolved into individual words.  Dr. Brown also attempted to devise a mathematically-  provable unambiguous grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The project received minimal funding in the early 1960&#039;s and then stagnated.  Dr. Brown published a microform description of the language in the mid-60s, then revised it into a printed book that was published in 1975.  The early versions did not achieve the desired unambiguity, and did not live up to goals in vocabulary development.  Only a couple of people ever learned any of these versions, and the language evolved so rapidly that no one ever mastered the language well enough to test the original goals.  The handling of mathematical expressions turned out to be extremely deficient, a major drawback to the intended language audience.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rise of the computer, and especially the personal computer, changed this.  Computational techniques of proving computer languages unambiguous were first applied to Loglan in the mid-70s. By 1982, a core subset of the language had been verified unambiguous using the UNIXtm tool &#039;YACC&#039; (Yet Another Compiler Compiler).  Meanwhile,  the word-formation rules were redesigned to expand the capability to add new vocabulary with easily identifiable etymologies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is the latest version of this language, developed by The Logical Language Group from Dr. Brown&#039;s seminal research. It is the first version of the language to have a completely specified unambiguous grammar, verified by the YACC algorithm.  Lojban is still based on predicate logic.  The language definition phase is being completed in 1989;   systems engineering techniques such as configuration management have arrested the uncontrolled evolution of the language, while still permitting carefully controlled growth into new areas as we learn more about specialized language needs.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s grammar includes a grammar for mathematical expressions that goes well beyond simple mathematical operations.  This grammar includes a metalanguage capability for defining new operators, redefining the precedence grouping of operators (unparenthesized Lojban defaults as left-grouping), and intermingling of &#039;normal language expression&#039; with mathematical expressions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban design allows for standard notations as well as Polish, reverse Polish, and an indefinite variety of other systems - a feature vital for supporting the many varieties of mathematical expression used in specialized disciplines. Lojban also incorporates a scheme for borrowing words from the international scientific vocabulary, as well as an ex-  tremely rich combinatorial technique of building words from Lojban roots.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to its capability for mathematical expression, Lojban is designed to be a human language. Studies of language universals have led to the inclusion of stylistic features ranging from the observer-based indicators found in native American languages, a tense-location system that allows for optional treatment of space-time as a single concept, the isolation of concrete concepts from abstractions, and a variety of subjective emotional markers that distinguish the attitude of the speaker from the semantic content of the expression.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban retains audiovisual isomorphism.  The grammar is comparable in complexity with the more sophisticated computer languages of today.  A core of 1300 root words and about 600 structure words (many of them mathematically-oriented) can be simply combined into an effectively infinite vocabulary.  The small vocabulary and simple grammar make Lojban easy to learn.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What does this mean in terms of Dr. Strichartz&#039;s proposal?    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is certainly capable of serving as &#039;Intermath&#039;.   A Lojban parser is under development, the first step in a machine translation system.  Artificial intelligence experts have started looking at techniques that are especially suited for AI-based translation from natural languages into Lojban. Lojban&#039;s syntax resembles that of LISP and PROLOG, which are often used in storing knowledge- base information for AI processing.  It is conceivable that the Lojban machine translation system might actually be written in a Lojban computer language. Lojban is probably capable of expressing even some of the stylistic features of a source natural language.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More important, a scientist or mathematician can write originally in Lojban, using its unique stylistic capabilities; this writing would be especially suited to mathematical texts due to the predicate structuring of sentences.  Writing directly in Lojban eliminates the most difficult step in machine translation: going from an ambiguous natural language to unambiguous Lojban; the other direction should be much easier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A mathematician should eventually be able to write text either in his/her native language or in Lojban.  Journals would be distributed internationally in Lojban.  Cornell,  or any other university, would need only to translate from Lojban into English, and then only if the mathematician couldn&#039;t read the Lojban; this is much easier (and cheaper)  than translating from a large variety of languages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ease of learning Lojban should not be understated.  The first class is being taught In the Washington DC area during the first half of 1989; a textbook is being written simultaneously and is expected to be published by the time this appears in print.  It is believed that the course being developed could allow reading fluency in a semester,  and conversational fluency or the ability to write sophisticated texts (such as mathematics) within a year.  The actual time to achieve fluency is mostly dependent on the rate of learning the root and structure word vocabulary.  Students are already reading and writing fairly natural and comprehensible non-technical text,  limited primarily by their mastery of vocabulary, after less than 30 classroom hours.  Computer-aided vocabulary instruction tools have been in use for a couple of years and have proven extremely effective.  When fully integrated with classroom instruction and standard techniques such as language labs, the learning process may even be accelerated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban&#039;s cultural neutrality and decidedly non-English syntax eliminates any dependence on &#039;American cultural imperialism&#039;.  There is interest in Lojban among the community favoring an &#039;international language&#039;, although this is not the primary aim of Lojban.  Lojban certainly has some claim to viability as an international auxiliary language; its ease of learning and cultural neutrality help give Lojban standing in the idealistic internationalist community.  On the other hand, Lojban&#039;s applicability to machine translation, AI applications, and scientific and mathematical expression, as well as its flexibility for new uses, combine to give Lojban a practical (and possibly commercial) short-term future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most surprisingly, almost all of the language development has been performed without normal academic funding.  Dr. Brown funded much of the early work out of his own pocket, especially after he left the University of Florida in the early 1960&#039;s.  Almost all of the work in the last 10 years has been performed by unpaid volunteers, and funded by small contributions and subscriptions to publications.  Unfortunately, independence from academic funding has also avoided the necessary academic review process.  While several linguists, logicians, and computer scientists have worked together to develop Lojban, no mathematician or scientist has actually put it to the test of usage. For too long, we have been without the critical inputs of the mathematical community which would ensure that our design meets their requirements.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the language definition complete, the review and testing process by scientists, the development of acceptable application software for translation, and even the original linguistic research that inspired the language all will require funding.  To earn that funding, and to earn the respect this long-term effort deserves, it is time for the Loglan/Lojban project to assume a proper role in the academic process and prove its value to the community that we expect will find it most useful.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Logical Language Group, Inc. is a non-profit organization dedicating to developing Lojban, teaching it,  and encouraging its practical use.  We have teaching materials available in addition to computer-aided tools.  A quarterly journal, &amp;quot;Ju&#039;i Lobypli&amp;quot;, discusses the project goals and technical issues in the language, and provides some amount of Lojban text in a variety of styles.  Recent issues have dealt with both mathematical expression and ma- chine translation, and reprint copies are available.  A short newsletter, &amp;quot;lojbo karni&amp;quot;, is also published to inform interested but less active participants.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We call for mathematicians to support our efforts, and if possible to learn Lojban and to test its applicability to communication within their specialties.  We would like to see classes taught in the university environment, and perhaps some graduate research projects that depend on Lojban could be undertaken.  (Research activities that involve communicating with native speakers of other languages might find Lojban an especially valuable tool.)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your support will help determine the ultimate value of Lojban, whether for scientific communication, linguistics research, or any of the other goals that have been proposed.  We are especially interested in ideas for research and application approaches that will attract funding and participation from the scientific community.    We look forward to your interest, comments, and questions on our efforts.         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob LeChevalier, President &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== On the Lojban Design for Mathematical Expression (MEX) ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us start by reiterating Dr. Strichartz&#039;s guidelines for an international mathematical language:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It should be modelled on the formal language of mathematical logic;    &lt;br /&gt;
* It should extend beyond that formal language &amp;quot;to embody all the different ways of expression used by mathematicians in their normal modes of writing&amp;quot;;    &lt;br /&gt;
* It should have a vocabulary including technical terms which can be readily expanded to include newly coined words;    &lt;br /&gt;
* It should embody the &#039;unambiguous meaning&#039; underlying mathematical text, without necessarily preserving stylistic features;    &lt;br /&gt;
* It should be amenable to machine translation techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are merely a starting point, but clearly Lojban&#039;s handling of MEX must address all of these.  Some of these have been discussed previously; we addressed machine translation issues in JL8.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is, of course, designed as a predicate language and is thus modelled on mathematical logic.  We have,  incidentally, tried to allow for non-traditional logics,  such as &#039;fuzzy logic&#039;; in general, however, these new logics must be covered under the requirement to support new technical terms and forms, and need not be in the underpinning of the language.  There are a myriad of possible new approaches to mathematics and logic; we cannot hypothesize that any particular one of them is more important or more lasting than the others, or this might skew Lojban&#039;s long-term usefulness, as well as its claim to being unbiased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads me to emphasize the second guideline listed above, &amp;quot;to embody all the different ways of expression used by mathematicians in their normal modes of writing&amp;quot;.  Lojban is not, and must not be, an attempt to impose a new system of expression on mathematics, nor to constrain mathematicians to use one system on the grounds that it is  &#039;better&#039; than any other.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much of the debate about the design of MEX during the history of Lojban and predecessor versions of the language has revolved around this last issue.  Proponents of Polish notation, reverse Polish notation, and other varieties of expression have argued for their preferred notation as being superior to others, inferring therefore that Lojban MEX should require mathematics to be expressed in that form.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several flaws with this thinking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a notation that is good for one form of mathematics may be difficult to use with other forms.  For example, logicians often find advantage in using Polish notation for certain types of logical analysis.  On the other hand, computer mathematics is often organized around reverse Polish notation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a similar vein, the existence of two forms of calculator mathematics (standard and reverse Polish), each with its own proponents, is a simple example demonstrating that the superiority of one form of expression over another is arguable even within one area of mathematics.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is an attempt to structure language to allow for unambiguous logical expression.  Regardless of which of the forms of expression is used, the international language of mathematical expression is already both unambiguous and logical.  It is unambiguous in that any mathematician,  anywhere in the world, can read any written mathematical expression and will &#039;parse&#039; that expression the same way.  Mathematical language is logical in that it can be used to make inferences by simple, regular, manipulations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that I qualified the previous point by referring to written mathematical expression.  Even in non-Romanized languages, mathematics is written using the standard Romanized nomenclature, and is read and understood in exactly the same way as in other languages.  However, where the system breaks down is in the spoken form of these expressions.  Because natural languages are neither unambiguous nor designed to express mathematical thought,  the spoken forms of mathematics are often both clumsy and ambiguous.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We are attempting to make the Lojban design both unambiguous and able to express mathematics.  Furthermore,  we desire Lojban expression to be audio-visually isomorphic - we want any written form to be read in one unique way,    and any spoken form to have a unique written corresponding form.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It turns out that we can do this with minor allowances.  The proposed MEX grammar allows for a unique spoken form for a given written form.  It also defines a written form that complies with international mathematical conventions. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unfortunately, that form is not a unique form because international mathematics does not prescribe unique forms.  The best example is the elision of the multiplication operators in &#039;3x + 2y&#039;.  Because we must preserve unambiguity in speech, and there are other possible interpretations for the strings &#039;3x&#039; and &#039;2y&#039; than as mathematical multiplication, the spoken form of this expression must not elide the multiplication operators in its spoken form.                                           &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, Lojban cannot make assumptions about the precedence of mathematical operations. First of all, Lojban must allow for the addition of new operators as new mathematical forms are developed.  Lojban must also permit the specification of nonce operators, such as those used in abstract algebra in discussing the properties of rings,     fields, and other systems that are defined by their permitted operations.  Obviously, any new operation may have a precedence which is higher, lower, the same as, or in between the precedences of other existing operators.     Furthermore, it is permissible in some mathematics to define systems where precedences differ from those commonly attributed to mathematical operations.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For examples, I reference Dr. M. Ecker in The REC Newsletter, Vol. 3, No. 8, Dec 1988.  Dr. Ecker reports that of many spreadsheets tested, one processes &#039;- 5 ^ 2&#039;   to be &#039;-25&#039;, the rest put negation as higher precedence than exponentiation.  Many computer-based calculators even ignore precedence between addition and multiplication,     evaluating &#039;1 + 2 x 3&#039; as &#039;9&#039;. Regardless as to whether these are &#039;right&#039; or &#039;wrong&#039;, there exist mathematical processes that differ in regard to precedences.  To discuss those differences, you must be able to express them.  So Lojban must be able to specify non-standard precedences and to specify the relative precedence of new operations.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Before I proceed with a description of how we do this, I want to summarize some other requirements for Lojban MEX.   The subject of MEX requirements was discussed in some detail by Lojbanist Bill Mengarini in The Loglanist, Vol 5, No. 1. I will summarize the list of requirements presented there.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban must be &#039;continuously and infinitely extendible, capable of having new constructions added to it as easily as new metaphors can be added to the [Lojban] vocabulary&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban must be able to handle data aggregates such as matrices, arrays, records, heterogeneous lists, stacks, queues, trees, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban must be able to express values in a variety of bases, including octal, hexadecimal, and binary.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban MEX must be extendible to handle the widely varying formulaic structures of the hundreds of computer languages in wide use, as well as semi-mathematical expressions such as chemical formulae and equations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As partial solutions to these requirements, the following derived requirements are proposed:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban must be able to include text from other languages inside quotes, including text that does not fit Lojban phonology, morphology, or orthography.&lt;br /&gt;
# Lojban must have an extendible set of special characters and symbols for reading off non-Lojbanic and mathematical text as strings of symbols.  We must be able to make up words for symbols which are easy to remember.&lt;br /&gt;
# There must be a way to incorporate Lojban predicates into MEX functions and operators.  This allows the power of metaphor and borrowing to be applied to MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
(I extended this requirement to include the ability to incorporate predicates as numbers or quantifiers - as we do in English when we talk about a &#039;brace of oxen&#039;, &#039;a herd of sheep&#039;, or &#039;an exultation of doves&#039;.  These are folk quantifiers that do not have general mathematical applicability - I don&#039;t know what you get when you add two &#039;exultations&#039; together, or even worse, multiply them.  But people have and do use them either as numbers or collectives in expressions, and Lojban should not presume to say that they cannot be used.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, Bill describes a &#039;wish list&#039; of features he sees as being needed in the language.  Starting with his list, I&#039;ve expanded and generalized some areas.  The following are major elements:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Quantifiers&lt;br /&gt;
** scalar radices (bases) such as binary, octal, decimal, and hexadecimal, including the capability to specify a default;&lt;br /&gt;
** vector radices, such as time, where the base changes as you move from hours to minutes to seconds;&lt;br /&gt;
** data-dependent radices, where the base is determined by the data itself, such as dates. Americans can tell just by looking how to interpret the dates 6/89 and 6/18/89.  (Other countries sometimes use a different order.);&lt;br /&gt;
** Roman numerals and other non-radix number systems;&lt;br /&gt;
** scientific notation;&lt;br /&gt;
** repeating decimals;&lt;br /&gt;
** irrational numbers;&lt;br /&gt;
** numbers typically represented by symbols, such as &#039;e&#039;, &#039;pi&#039;, and &#039;i&#039;;&lt;br /&gt;
** complex numbers of arbitrary degree;&lt;br /&gt;
** rational and mixed numbers;&lt;br /&gt;
** a means of specifying the precision of numbers;&lt;br /&gt;
** intervals, both discrete and continuous, open and closed;&lt;br /&gt;
* Strings&lt;br /&gt;
** an open ended set of characters, capable of dealing with ASCII, and other character sets;&lt;br /&gt;
** a means of indicating spacing in strings;    &lt;br /&gt;
** quantifiers must be able to include strings, and we must be able to do operations on strings;    &lt;br /&gt;
* Data Types    &lt;br /&gt;
** a means to indicate restricted data types such as those use in computer languages (Boolean, Integer, Floating Point), including user-defined data types; &lt;br /&gt;
** a means to discuss the attributes of such data (data declarations);&lt;br /&gt;
* Data Aggregates    &lt;br /&gt;
** sets, including multisets that allow duplicates, fuzzy sets with uncertain membership, and ordered sets;    &lt;br /&gt;
** multi-dimensional sets, such as arrays and matrices;&lt;br /&gt;
** graphs and directional graphs (digraphs), including trees;    &lt;br /&gt;
* Units of Measurement    &lt;br /&gt;
** being able to talk about dimensioned numbers and dimensionless numbers;                              &lt;br /&gt;
** simple dimensions (meters) and compound dimensions (furlongs/fortnight);&lt;br /&gt;
** a means of talking about the dimensionality of numbers;    &lt;br /&gt;
* Functions/Operations    &lt;br /&gt;
** a set of &#039;primitive&#039; functions or operations (I am not using the mathematical definition of function here; some operations may have more than one answer, such as the &#039;zeroes&#039; of a polynomial);&lt;br /&gt;
** a means of defining an extendible set of new functions/operations;    &lt;br /&gt;
** functions/operations which can operate on non-numeric operands, including equations;&lt;br /&gt;
** functions and operations which return more than one type of result (such as multiple parameter subroutines);    &lt;br /&gt;
* Relations    &lt;br /&gt;
** greater than, less than, equation, similarity, set membership, vector componency are but a few of these;    &lt;br /&gt;
** we must be able to distinguish between assertions and assignments (&#039;x = 5&#039; and &#039;set x = 5&#039;;    &lt;br /&gt;
* Predications    &lt;br /&gt;
** we must be able to express predications (bridi) about quantifiers, strings, functions, and relations;&lt;br /&gt;
* Formulae and Algorithms    &lt;br /&gt;
** means of expressing sequences of operations, including precedences;    &lt;br /&gt;
** means of asserting a default precedence;&lt;br /&gt;
** means of expressing data dependent variations in the sequence of operations;    &lt;br /&gt;
* Interfaces to Non-MEX Lojban    &lt;br /&gt;
** each component of MEX must be discussable as a sumti in a non-MEX bridi;    &lt;br /&gt;
** each component of MEX must be convertible to one or more appropriate predicates (kunbri or bridi);    &lt;br /&gt;
** non-MEX constructions must be convertible to appropriate MEX equivalents (such as &#039;exultations&#039; of doves as quantifiers).    &lt;br /&gt;
* Experimental forms&lt;br /&gt;
** For example, Jerome Frazee has proposed a set of systematical mathematical operators that clearly indicates the relationship between addition, multiplication, and exponentiation, and higher degrees in the same vein.  While it is not clear that these operators are useful in most mathematical applications, they must be able to be experimented with either within or without the rest of the MEX system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pinning down the bounds of international mathematical language is difficult, and probably impossible; no one knows all fields of mathematics.  Perhaps the editors of the best mathematical journals are the best equipped in this area, or perhaps mathematical linguists.  No one will ever be certain that we have covered all possibilities.  The above list is probably a good starting point, however.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of these bits and pieces come together as a large order, especially for an unambiguous language.  However,  the international language of mathematics manages it, and Lojban should be able to.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us now describe how the current Lojban MEX design meets these multitudinous requirements.  It turns out that there is a fairly simple solution - the same one used by international mathematics.  That is to assume a certain default set of types and parameters, and to have a means of specifying deviations from that default, both for the short term, and for the long term.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By long term deviations, I mean that if we are talking about chemical equations, we must label that we are doing so, and then use the defaults of chemical expressions until the default is reset.  By short term deviations, I mean such things as marking a single number as being in a non-  standard base and assuming all others to be in that base.  When you read a mathematical expression, a chemical formula, a computer program, or a graph, you know the conventions that apply.  Most important, you handle these conventions more as a semantics problem than one of grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban can handle a variety of systems of notation because of its predicate structure.  There is no requirement in Lojban that particular sumti of a predicate be always on the left or the right as long as they are in the right order, or if not, some type of marker indicates that they are not.  Lojban does vary slightly from this, in that it requires a marker if all of the sumti are to the right of the kunbri, in order to distinguish this form from an observative.  Lojban MEX need not include observatives,  and hence is simpler than non-Mex grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In fact, it turns out that a large number of features of non-MEX Lojban grammar have little or no value in MEX, and the resulting grammar for MEX is simpler than the grammar for non-MEX.  If you learn the regular Lojban grammar, you already know the basics of MEX.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The major &#039;problem&#039; with Lojban MEX as a representation of the international mathematical language is the default precedence.  Because of the requirement for flexibility and extensibility, Lojban cannot assume a fixed set of prece-&lt;br /&gt;
dences.  This is a good thing, since each precedence level assigned in grammar rules doubles the number of rules required.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Instead, Lojban uses its normal default system of left grouping.  It allows parenthesis of a couple of types to attach operands unambiguously to their correct operations,  and to specify the order of operations.  In spoken Lojban,  you would express these parenthesis in order to be unambiguous.  In reading off an international mathematics formula in any notation, you must therefore be able to add them in easily while reading, and it turns out that this almost trivial.  You also must insert elided operations,    such as the missing multiplications in &#039;2x + 3y&#039;.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Lojban grammar will left-group all constructs without parenthesis.  You can specify non-left grouping precedence in three ways.  Most clearly, you can add in parentheses to force the verbal grouping to represent your precedence structure.  When you do so, of course, your verbal expression will no longer be identical to the formulaic expression.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a second choice, you can adopt the conventions of international mathematics for whatever notation system you are using, and then use those conventions to override the default grouping as part of the semantic interpretation of the expression.  In other words, the Lojban text will have parentheses that indicate how operators and operations are attached.  It will also have parentheses relating to operation precedence that can be ignored when analyzing what the expression really means.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The third and most complicated choice is to specify the precedence of each operation with the operation.  Lojban provides the capability to attach any MEX quantifier to an operation as a precedence marker.  You can then use the procedure discussed for the second choice to analyze the expression semantically.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are arguments that this approach violates Lojban&#039;s unambiguity.  I believe those arguments to be invalid unless you are willing to label international mathematical language to be similarly ambiguous.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you make that concession, then I concede the argument.  But Lojban, and Lojbanists, are NOT going to change international mathematics now or in the near future; certainly not to impose a more rigid standard of unambiguity than has served for centuries.  Lojban is merely trying to represent that mathematical expression at the level of sophistication that serves adequately at present.  We go beyond that by providing explicit means to specify conventions and protocols, and a unarguably unambiguous, if unorthodox, expression form which can use either left-grouping or parenthesization.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So Lojban MEX is sufficiently unambiguous to encompass existing international mathematical expression, while providing extra capability to go beyond that form if necessary or desirable.         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m not going to go into examples at this point.  For one thing, the semantic conventions and precedences haven&#039;t been defined.  I&#039;ve merely made sure that there is room to do so. For another, even I don&#039;t know the system well enough to demonstrate it fluently, nor do I really consider myself a master of the linguistics of mathematics.  Even the textbook will only skim the surface, since many of the more interesting examples of mathematical expression will be unintelligible except to those who are familiar with the particular branch of mathematics involved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some day, perhaps, someone will write a general mathematical linguistics text for Lojban, probably as part of implementing the machine translation project proposed by Dr. Strichartz.  I may help, but it is out of my area of expertise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until then, we will have a system that we know to be unambiguous at the parser level, is known to be flexible and extendible in numerous ways, and which can easily handle the basic mathematical expressions used in everyday speech, while doing so in a manner that is compatible with the international mathematical language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Self Descriptions by Lojban Students ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le ve skicu be mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lesson 5 is the first lesson that asks a student to write more than single sentences; we ask people to write a short self-description paragraph. Some students know more grammar and vocabulary than is covered in the first five lessons, but in general, the following reflect the grammar in the first five paragraphs.  Darren Stalder, Sylvia Rutiser, and Paul Francis O&#039;Sullivan are in the DC area class.  Jamie Bechtel is self-teaching in Omaha, but wrote his self-description at LogFest.  Each lesson thereafter asks the students to do a little writing that exercises the points covered thus far.  I&#039;m asking all students receiving lessons to send me their self-descriptions and later writings. We will check and comment on them, and if the students permit, will include some of them in later issues as additional examples or inspiration for the others.  Jamie has already send us his Lesson 6 writing, which I believe is the first Lojban science fiction.  Maybe next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As usual, translations will appear after the end of this section, so that people who are learning the language can try to read the text without help first.  I&#039;m going to be sparing on commentary on these writings; each reflects the author&#039;s personal style, which I want to encourage, and each has been checked by several people, and/or by Jeff Taylor&#039;s parser, for correctness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la deron. stalder. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi  .i mi du la deron. stalder.  .i mi ba speni la rebekas caivlis. goi ko&#039;a .i .iu ko&#039;a traji leka melbi be mi kei le zmadu roda  .i ko&#039;a galfi leko&#039;a cmene lemi cmene lenu speni poi ka lijda cfari ca le la xamast. detri  .i la&#039;edi&#039;u ka clani lisri kei gi&#039;e canai se skicu  .i mi barda nanmu gi&#039;e ckaji lo barda ke xance je jamfu .i lemi kerfa cu bunre  .i lemi kanla noi dasni le lenjo cu crino  .i mi xebni le tagji ke jibri cutci  .i mi nelci lenu lemi jamfu cu lunbe  .i le girzu skami preti danfu cu jibri mi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi nelci la&#039;edi&#039;u .e lei jibri jdini  .i lemi karce caxe klama ri&#039;anai leka slabu  .i .uu lemi karce cu mutcepilno le karce muvdu jisra  .i mi ca cliva do  .i .u&#039;i micu pamoi troci le mu&#039;i clani ke lojbo nu cusku .i co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la silvian. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi du la silvian.  .i mi se jibri loinu minji platu finti  .i le na jibri nu gasnu po mi du la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi cu litru fi le cmalu ke blanu karce noi se jadni loi dertu ri&#039;a lenu mi na lumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lo so&#039;imei zdani dinju poi nenri la .aleksendrias. ca zdani mi  .i lemi zdani goi ko&#039;a cu se canko le so&#039;imeiki&#039;unai lenu ko&#039;a cu berti  .i la&#039;edi&#039;u mukti lenu mi ponse la .afriikan. vailet. poi spati&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi cu nelci loi cizra gerna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la polpronCIIS. .osuliaVAN. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi.  .i mi du la polpronCIIS. .osuliaVAN.  .i mi cmaci prenu  .i mi zasni gunka  .i le citri citri logji cu pluka mi.i lo su&#039;ore drata ke logji ciste cu pluka mi  .i mi pacna lenu fanva le gerna la lojban. la esperanton.  .i mi pacnalenu fanva le pagbu be le jegvo cukta le su&#039;ore slabu bangu le lojban. .i mi nanmu gi&#039;e na denmi ke grusi xunre sekerfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la djeimis. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi du la djeimis.  .i lemi kerfa cu kalsa je ke bunre narju  .i lemi kanla cu blanu  .i mi carmi nelci le nu cinki tadni.i mi rirni le jdaselsku cinki pe zoi le. religioso senonsis .le  .i mi xebni leka mintu gasnu .i mi tadni lenu misanji senva  .i mi pujeca na snada ri  .i mi ckule tadni le prije larcu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== With Apologies to Spock ===&lt;br /&gt;
Row, Row, Row Your Boat in Lojban&lt;br /&gt;
by Bob LeChevalier&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I haven&#039;t seen it yet, by I&#039;ve been told that the latest Star Trek movie has the stars sitting around a campfire singing&#039;Row, Row, Row Your Boat&#039;, while Spock attempts to analyze the song logically. I was challenged at LogFest to attempt atranslation, which I did in 10 minutes while the others were arguing about what the song really meant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.a&#039;i .a&#039;i ga&#039;acpu ledo bloti&lt;br /&gt;
bainaiku le cmari&#039;e terflecu&lt;br /&gt;
ci&#039;o leka gleki leka gleki leka gleki&lt;br /&gt;
.i ki&#039;ubo loi nunji&#039;e cu nunsne&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
   .a&#039;i	       .a&#039;i	 ga&#039;acpu     ledo  bloti&lt;br /&gt;
  /ah,hee(pause)ah,hee gah,HAH,shpu leh,do BLO,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
    /  -	/   -	    /	  -    -     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
  bainaiku  le		cmari&#039;e		terflecu&lt;br /&gt;
/bai,nai,ku,leh	     shmah,REE,heh     ter,FLEH,shu/&lt;br /&gt;
    /	   -		-   /	-	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  ci&#039;o	   leka	 gleki	   leka	  gleki	    leka   gleki&lt;br /&gt;
/shee,ho leh,kah GLEH,kee leh,kah GLEH,kee leh,kah GLEH,kee&lt;br /&gt;
   /	    -	   /	     -	    /	      -	     /&lt;br /&gt;
      .i     ki&#039;ubo  loi    nunji&#039;e    cu   nunsne&lt;br /&gt;
/(pause)ee kee,hu,bo loi,noon,ZHEE,heh,shu  NOON,sneh/&lt;br /&gt;
		/	-	/     -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== A Story from Another Culture ===&lt;br /&gt;
by Preston Maxwell (with corrections by Bob and Nora)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Preston has been working on a series of simple stories taken from non-Indo-European cultures, attempting to translate or re-express them in Lojban, partly as teaching examples, partly as inter-cultural education.  His translations are stillat an early stage, since he is only up to Lesson 6.  But he has done a lot of work, and I want to see it recognized as an example for others. Nora and I took one of his stories and polished up the translation to make it minimally grammatical, and here it is.  We hope to have more of Preston&#039;s stories in later issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
so&#039;o pendo puca pinxe lo vanju&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a goi pa le pendo cu djica lenu jarco leko&#039;a pixra cupra ka certu&lt;br /&gt;
.i semu&#039;ibo ko&#039;a cupra co pixra lo since&lt;br /&gt;
.i leko&#039;a pendo cu bacru zo .ii&lt;br /&gt;
.i le pixra cu selcertu .ia&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a pensi cusku lu mi ba xagzadri&#039;a levi pixra&lt;br /&gt;
gi&#039;e semu&#039;i cupra co pixra lo tuple be le since&lt;br /&gt;
.i leko&#039;a pendo cu bacru lu .iinai lo&#039;e since cu na ponse lo tuple  .i seni&#039;ibo le pixra pujecanai xamgu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== la sinderelwud. by Nora LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
					 SCENE 1 - At the Home of Cinderelwood&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	ju&#039;i doi sindereluyd. ko cazi brulu&#039;i le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey, Cinderelwood, right-now sweep the floor.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ai doi	mamtyspen.&lt;br /&gt;
		Yes O MotherSpouse.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	doi paf. la relber. pu porpi lemi selkei&lt;br /&gt;
		O Father, 2nd-Son broke	my toy.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	mi pu na porpi ri  .i la pavber. pu kalsyri&#039;a lemi melbi kerfa&lt;br /&gt;
		I didn&#039;t break it.  1st-Son messed-up my beautiful hair.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;o naku mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	I did not!&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 1st	son hits 2nd son **)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 2nd	son kicks 1st son **)&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	ju&#039;i doi sindereluyd. .o&#039;o do naku xu mulri&#039;a lenu brulu&#039;i le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey, Cinderelwood, (anger) aren&#039;t you done with	the sweeping of	the floor?&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko jbikla&lt;br /&gt;
		Approach!&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko komnicri&#039;a le kerfa be la	relber.&lt;br /&gt;
		Comb the hair of 2nd-Son.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i baku	ko cikre le selkei po la pavber.&lt;br /&gt;
		Afterwards, fix	the toy	of 1st-Son.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i baku	ko mulri&#039;a cai lenu brulu&#039;i le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
		Afterwards, finish the sweeping	of the floor.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ai doi	mamtyspen.&lt;br /&gt;
		Yes O MotherSpouse.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Aside **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i .uu lomi ni se bilga	cu zenba&lt;br /&gt;
		(sorrow) My duties increase.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(** Act	out each line in background as it is spoken by narrator. **)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	ko&#039;a goi la sindereluyd. komnicri&#039;a le kerfa be	la relber.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   20&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		He, Cinderelwood combs the hair	of 2nd-Son.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i baku	ko&#039;a cikre le selkei po	la pavber.&lt;br /&gt;
		Then he	fixes the toy of 1st-Son.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i baku	ko&#039;a [kefcfa|ke&#039;ucfa] lenu brulu&#039;i le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
		Then he	again-starts to	sweep the floor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
							SCENE 2&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(** Fanfare sounds; knock on door heard; Father	opens door; Herald enters **).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	coi doi	se zdani&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello O	occupant(s).&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ca&#039;i	le banli nolrai	pe la noltaj. mi cpedu lenu ro nanmu po&#039;u vi le	gugde ba klama le la noltaj.&lt;br /&gt;
		nunsaldansu&lt;br /&gt;
		By-the-authority-of the	great king King, I request that	all men	in the country come to the King&#039;s ball.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i la nolraitix. poi tixnu be fi la noltaj. cu cuxna lera ba&#039;ispe leva zvati&lt;br /&gt;
		KingDaughter, who is daughter of the great king, chooses her fiance from the attendants.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ti pikta pi&#039;o ro do&lt;br /&gt;
		Here are tickets for all of you.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Herald hands tickets to Father and leaves **)&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.ui mi ba zvati	le banli nunsaldansu&lt;br /&gt;
		(happy)	I will attend the great	ball.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.ui mi ba zvati	le nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		(happy)	I will attend the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Preens his &amp;quot;beautiful&amp;quot; hair	**)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i mi ba mebrai	leva zvati&lt;br /&gt;
		I will be the most beautiful of	the-there attendees.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;o naku do go&#039;i  .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	You will not!  I will!&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;o naku do go&#039;i  .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	You will not!  I will!&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 1st	son hits 2nd son. 2nd son kicks	1st son	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	.e&#039;o ko	smaji doi zanbre be fi mi&lt;br /&gt;
		(please) Be quiet O favorable-context sons of mine.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i le remei pe do ba mebrai&lt;br /&gt;
		The two-some of	you will be the	most beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i .iacai le nolraiti&#039;u	ba cuxna pa do&lt;br /&gt;
		(intense-certainty) The	princess will choose one of you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ue mi mo&#039;u pa&#039;a do pu se cpedu&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) I, in addition to you, was requested.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i mi ba klama le nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		I will go to the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	.o&#039;o na	go&#039;i  .i do ba stali ti	gi&#039;e gunka&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	No you won&#039;t.  You will	stay here and work.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i mi mipypu&#039;i ledo pikta&lt;br /&gt;
		I hide your ticket.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko mulri&#039;a lenu brulu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		Finish sweeping.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Hides one ticket in	a lamp **)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   21&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	ni&#039;o ca	le nunsalci djedi le lanzu cu redri&#039;a pida&#039;ari&lt;br /&gt;
		On the celebration day,	the family readies all-but-one-of themselves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
							SCENE 3&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	la relber. pu malcpa lemi degjai&lt;br /&gt;
		2nd-Son	stole my ring.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	mi na go&#039;i  .i la pavber. pu malcpa lemi kerfa dasri&lt;br /&gt;
		I did not.  1st-Son stole my hair ribbon.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	naku mi	go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		I did not.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 1st	son hits 2nd son. 2nd son kicks	1st son	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	ju&#039;i doi sindereluyd. ko cpacu le drata	degjai .e le drata ke kerfa dasri&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey Cinderelwood, get the other	ring and the other ribbon.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ai doi	mamtyspen.&lt;br /&gt;
		Yes, O MotherSpouse.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Cinderelwood gets the ring &amp;amp; ribbon. Others	finish dressing	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	mi bredi le nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		I&#039;m ready for the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	ba&#039;e mi	bredi lenu se cuxna la nolraitix.&lt;br /&gt;
		I&#039;m ready to be	chosen by KingDaughter.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	naku do	ba se cuxna la nolraitix.  .i mi ba go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		You won&#039;t be chosen by KingDaughter.  I	will.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	naku do	go&#039;i  .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		You won&#039;t be.  I will.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** As the three leave the house, 1st son hits 2nd son.	2nd son	kicks 1st son **)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	ni&#039;o la	sindereluyd. cu	na selkansa&lt;br /&gt;
		Cinderelwood is	alone.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Fairy Godfather enters, hidden **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i .ue .ianairu&#039;e go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) (maybe not) That&#039;s so!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
							SCENE 4&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	mi na selkansa	.i naku	.uu mi klama le	nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		I am alone.  It	is not the case	(sorrow) that I	go to the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i mi bilga lenu gunka&lt;br /&gt;
		I am obligated to work.&lt;br /&gt;
(Godfather):	coi. .elwyd.  .i mi ridrirni do&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello, Elwood.	I am fairy-godfather to	you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ue&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   22&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise)&lt;br /&gt;
(Godfather):	.ai do ba klama	le nunsalci  .i	mi sidju do&lt;br /&gt;
		(intention) You	will go	to the celebration.  I help you.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko zgana&lt;br /&gt;
		Observe.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Magic motions cause	ticket hiding place (lamp) to light up.	 He gets ticket, and hands it to&lt;br /&gt;
		Cinderelwood  **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i do ca ponse le pikta&lt;br /&gt;
		You now	have the ticket.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** More magic motions **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.ije le	selgunka ca mulno&lt;br /&gt;
		And, the work is done.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ui  .i	mi ca kakne lenu klama le nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		(happy)	I can go to the	celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i  .y	naku .uu mi ponse lo drani taxfu&lt;br /&gt;
		(hesitation) I don&#039;t have any appropriate clothes.&lt;br /&gt;
(Godfather):	ko denpa&lt;br /&gt;
		Wait!&lt;br /&gt;
		(** More magic motions.	Opens drawer showing fine clothes &amp;amp; holds them up to Cinderelwood. **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko zgana do le minra&lt;br /&gt;
		Observe	yourself in the	mirror.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ue le taxfu cu	mutce melbi&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) The clothes are very	beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
(Godfather):	do mo&#039;u	pa&#039;a cu	mutce melbi  .i	.o&#039;u ko	se kajde&lt;br /&gt;
		You, also are very beautiful.  (Warning) Be forewarned!&lt;br /&gt;
		.i do bilga lenu cliva le nunsalci pu la parecac.&lt;br /&gt;
		You must leave the celebration before 12 o&#039;clock.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ca la parecac. ro ledo melbi	taxfu ba binxo ledo mabla ke slabu taxfu&lt;br /&gt;
		At 12, all your	beautiful clothes will change into your	old and	broken clothes.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	mi ba morji doi	ridrirni  .i mi	mutce ckire do&lt;br /&gt;
		I will remember, O fairy-godfather.  I am very grateful	to you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Godfather):	.e&#039;o ko	klama gi&#039;e lifri le pluka&lt;br /&gt;
		(please) go and	experience the pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.aicai&lt;br /&gt;
		(intense-intention).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	ni&#039;o mi&#039;o bazi zgana le	nunsalci vi le nolraizda po la noltaj.&lt;br /&gt;
		We will	now observe the	celebration at the king-house of King.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						SCENE 5	- At the Castle&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	mi xanka denpa lemi ba speni&lt;br /&gt;
		I nervously await my future spouse.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Father &amp;amp; 2 sons enter **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	la paf.	mamtyspen. noi selkansa	la pavber. .e la relber.&lt;br /&gt;
		Father MotherSpouse, who is accompanied	by 1st-Son and 2nd-Son.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	(** Points to sons **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.ue ta xajmi dasni&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) They	are comically dressed.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	(** Flexes muscles to impress princess **)&lt;br /&gt;
		coi nolraiti&#039;u	.i mi tsarai&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello Princess.	 I am the strongest.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	(** Preens **)&lt;br /&gt;
		coi nolraiti&#039;u	.i mi mebrai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   23&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello Princess.	 I am the most beautiful.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;o naku do go&#039;i  .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	No you&#039;re not.	I am.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;o naku do go&#039;i  .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		(anger)	No you&#039;re not.	I am.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 1st	son hits 2nd son. 2nd son kicks	1st son	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	coi vitke&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello, visitors.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** To Herself **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.i&#039;u ti	mabla seicni&lt;br /&gt;
		(disgust) They are self-interested.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	(** grabs princess **)&lt;br /&gt;
		mi dansu co kansa do&lt;br /&gt;
		I dance	with you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	(** To Herself **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.o&#039;e ti	dansu co cpana lemi jamfu&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) He dances on my feet.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	(** grabs princess **)&lt;br /&gt;
		mi dansu co kansa do&lt;br /&gt;
		I dance	with you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	(** To Herself **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.o&#039;i ti	dansu co dukse le kazyjbi&lt;br /&gt;
		(annoyance) He dances too close.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Elwood enters **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	la miprycmen.&lt;br /&gt;
		SecretName.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	.ue .ui	ti drani dasni&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) (happy) This-one is appropriately dressed.&lt;br /&gt;
(Elwood):	coi doi	nolraiti&#039;u.  .i	mi manci lesi&#039;o	rinsa do&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello, O princess.  I am awed by the thought of	greeting you.&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	coi. miprycmen.	 i do melbi cusku&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello, SecretName.  You	beautifully express.&lt;br /&gt;
(Elwood):	.i do melbi .i .e&#039;o xu do curmi	lenu do	dansu co kansa mi&lt;br /&gt;
		And you	are beautiful.	(please) Will you allow	that you dance with me?&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	.ai .ui&lt;br /&gt;
		Certainly.  Happily.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Elwood and the princess dance beautifully **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	(** To Herself **)&lt;br /&gt;
		.ui ti certu dansu&lt;br /&gt;
		(happy)	This-one skillfully dances.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Clock begins to strike 12 **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Elwood):	.ue ma tcika&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) What	is-the-time?&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	la parecac.&lt;br /&gt;
		Twelve.&lt;br /&gt;
(Elwood):	.o&#039;i  .i .uu .ei mi cazi cliva	.i co&#039;o	doi se manci&lt;br /&gt;
		(annoyance). (sorrow) (obligation) I right-now leave.  Good-bye	O awesome-one.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Elwood runs	out, catching his belt on the door.  Elwood leaves; his	belt doesn&#039;t.  Optionally, his&lt;br /&gt;
		pants fall and he picks	them up	before he gets out **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	ju&#039;i. miprycmen.  .i do	puzi cirko ledo	befydai&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey SecretName.	 You just lost your belt.&lt;br /&gt;
		ko denpa&lt;br /&gt;
		Wait!&lt;br /&gt;
		(** To the Herald **)&lt;br /&gt;
		ko sisku lepu dasni be ti  .i mi minde la&#039;edi&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   24&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		Seek the former	wearer of this.	 I command it.&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	.io doi	nolraitix.&lt;br /&gt;
		Yes O KingDaughter.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	ju&#039;i. nolraitix. ko catlu mi&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey KingDaughter, look at me!&lt;br /&gt;
(Princess):	.oi&lt;br /&gt;
		(complaint)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	ni&#039;o caki le bavlamdei vi le zdani be la sindereluyd.&lt;br /&gt;
		The next day, at the home of Cinderelwood.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
					 SCENE 6 - At the Home of Cinderelwood&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(** Cinderelwood is sweeping again.  Fanfare; a	knock; Herald enters **)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	coi doi	se zdani&lt;br /&gt;
		Hello, O occupant(s).&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ca&#039;i	le banli nolraiti&#039;u pe la nolraitix. mi	cpedu lenu ro nanmu po&#039;u vi le gugde ba	troci co mapti&lt;br /&gt;
		levi befydai&lt;br /&gt;
		By-the-authority-of the	great princess KingDaughter, I request that all	men in the country try fitting&lt;br /&gt;
		this belt.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i la nolraitix. sisku lepu dasni be ti&lt;br /&gt;
		KingDaughter seeks the former wearer of	this.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i la nolraitix. cu jdice lenu spebi&#039;o rixici&lt;br /&gt;
		KingDaughter decides on	marrying the third-forementioned.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.ai mi troci pamoi  .i mi kakne	lenu dasni ta&lt;br /&gt;
		I try first.  I	can wear that.&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	na go&#039;i	 .i mi go&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		No you can&#039;t.  I can.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** 1st	son hits 2nd son. 2nd son kicks	1st son	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	mi ba troci co mapti ro	do  .i ko jbikla&lt;br /&gt;
		I will try fitting all of you.	Approach.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Have fun with Herald trying	to fit belt on too-big 1st son **)&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	xu mi mapti le befydai&lt;br /&gt;
		Do I fit the belt?&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	na go&#039;i	.iacai&lt;br /&gt;
		No (intense-certainty).&lt;br /&gt;
		(** Have fun with Herald trying	to fit belt on too-big 2nd son **)&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.i&#039;acai	mi mapti le befydai&lt;br /&gt;
		(intense-belief) I fit the belt.&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	na go&#039;i	.iacai&lt;br /&gt;
		Not so (intense-certainty).&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ju&#039;i	brulu&#039;i	ko jbikla ki&#039;u lenu troci co mapti le befydai&lt;br /&gt;
		Hey sweeper, approach to try fitting the belt.&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	la sindereluyd.	na mapti&lt;br /&gt;
		Cinderelwood does not fit.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ri na pu zvati le nunsalci&lt;br /&gt;
		He did not attend the celebration.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko ranji lenu brulu&#039;i doi sindereluyd.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
							   25&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
		Continue to sweep O Cinderelwood.&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	la nolraitix. pu minde lenu ba&#039;e ro nanmu cu troci&lt;br /&gt;
		KingDaughter commanded that ALL	men try.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i ko jbikla doi brulu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
		Approach, O sweeper.&lt;br /&gt;
		(** The	Herald tries the belt on Cinderelwood, and it fits **)&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	.ue .ui	do mapti&lt;br /&gt;
		(surprise) (happy) You fit.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ia  .i	mi pu dasni le befydai ca le prulamdei&lt;br /&gt;
		Certainly.  I wore the belt yesterday.&lt;br /&gt;
(Herald):	ko klama la nolraitix. mu&#039;i lenu spebi&#039;o ri&lt;br /&gt;
		Go to KingDaughter to wed her.&lt;br /&gt;
(Cinderelwood):	.ai .uicai&lt;br /&gt;
		I will (intense-happiness).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
						       INTERLUDE&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(** In the background are Elwood and the Princess, obviously happily reunited **)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Narrator):	.i la .eluyd. spebi&#039;o la nolraitix.&lt;br /&gt;
		Elwood marries KingDaughter.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i le remei bazize&#039;o gleki ke kansa lifri&lt;br /&gt;
		The two-some very-soon-and-indefinitely-beyond happily together	experience.&lt;br /&gt;
		.i le drata mo&lt;br /&gt;
		And the	others are doing what?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(** Father, 1st	son and	2nd son	are apart from Elwood and the Princess,	looking	unhappy	**)&lt;br /&gt;
(** 1st	son hits 2nd son. 2nd son kicks	1st son	**)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(2nd son):	.o&#039;e la	pavber.	pu darxi mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 1st-Son hit me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(1st son):	.o&#039;e la	relber.	pu tikpa mi doi	paf.&lt;br /&gt;
		(OUCH) 2nd-Son kicked me, O Father.&lt;br /&gt;
(Father):	.oi&lt;br /&gt;
		(Complaint!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
							THE END&lt;br /&gt;
				 ******************************************************&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo by Nora LeChevalier ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Translations from le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; le ve skicu be mi &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;The Description of Me &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la deron. stalder. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi  .i mi du la deron. stalder.  .i mi ba speni la rebekas caivlis. goi ko&#039;a  .i .iu ko&#039;a traji le ka melbi be mi keile zmadu roda&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings!  I am the same as the one called &#039;Darren Stalder&#039;.  I will be married to Rebecca Shively (ko&#039;a).(Affection!) She is superlative in the property of beautifulness-to-me in direction the greater than all-somethings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a galfi leko&#039;a cmene lemi cmene lenu speni poi ka lijda cfari ca le la xamast. detri  .i la&#039;edi&#039;u ka clani lisrikei gi&#039;e canai se skicu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She modifies her name into my name at the event-of-being-spouse which is (religious initiatedness during the 6th month&#039;sdate). The-referent-of-the previous (the modifying) is a long-story-ness and a not-now described thing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi barda nanmu gi&#039;e ckaji lo barda ke xance je jamfu  .i lemi kerfa cu bunre  .i lemi kanla noi dasni le lenjo cucrino&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am a large-man and am characterized by big hands-and-feet.  My hair is brown.  My eyes, which incidentally wear thelenses, are green.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi xebni le tagji ke jibri cutci  .i mi nelci lenu lemi jamfu cu lunbe  .i le girzu skami preti danfu cu jibri mi  .imi nelci la&#039;edi&#039;u .e lei jibri jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hate the tight job-shoes.  I am fond of the state of my feet being bare.  The group-computer question answerer(computer networking consultant) be-jobs me.  I am fond of the referent of the previous (the be-jobbing) and (as wellas) of the mass of job-money.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i lemi karce ca xe klama ri&#039;anai leka slabu  .i .uu lemi karce cu mutce pilno le karce muvdu jisra  .i mi ca cliva do.i .u&#039;i mi cu pamoi troci le mu&#039;i clani ke lojbo nu cusku  .i co&#039;o.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My car is presently a mode of transportation despite the oldness.  (Regret!) My car is a much-user of the car-movejuice. I now leave you.  (Pleasure!) I first try the purposefully (long type-of Lojbanic expressing.) Good-bye!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la silvian. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi du la silvian.  .i mi se jibri loinu minji platu finti  .i le na jibri nu gasnu po mi du la lojban&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am the same as the one called &#039;Sylvia&#039;.  I am be-jobbed by Machine-design Invention. The not-job doing-without-purpose which pertains to me is the same as the thing called Lojban.  (My hobby is Lojban.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi cu litru fi le cmalu ke blanu karce noi se jadni loi dertu ri&#039;a lenu mi na lumci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(New topic.) I travel using the small blue-car, which incidentally is adorned with dirt because of the state of my not-washing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o lo so&#039;imei zdani dinju poi nenri la .aleksendrias. ca zdani mi  .i lemi zdani goi ko&#039;a cu se canko le so&#039;imeiki&#039;unai lenu ko&#039;a cu berti  .i la&#039;edi&#039;u mukti lenu mi ponse la .afriikan. vailet. poi spati&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(New topic.) A manysome-nest building which is inside the thing called Alexandria is a nest for me.  My nest (ko&#039;a) isbe-window-ed by the many-some despite (justification) the state of them being-to-the-north.  The referent of the previous (the be-window-ing) motivates the state of my owning that called &#039;African violet&#039;, which is a plant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ni&#039;o mi cu nelci loi cizra gerna&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(New topic.)  I am fond of Bizarre Grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la polpronCIIS. .osuliaVAN. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi.  .i mi du la polpronCIIS. .osuliaVAN.  .i mi cmaci prenu  .i mi zasni gunka  .i le citri citri logji cu pluka mi.i lo su&#039;ore drata ke logji ciste cu pluka mi  .i mi pacna lenu fanva le gerna la lojban. la esperanton.  .i mi pacnalenu fanva le pagbu be le jegvo cukta le su&#039;ore slabu bangu la lojban. .i mi nanmu gi&#039;e na denmi ke grusi xunre sekerfa&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings!  I am the same as the one called &#039;Paul-Francis O&#039;Sullivan&#039; (Irish pronunciation).  I am a mathematicalperson.  I temporary work.  The history-history type of logic pleases me.  Some (numbering at least two) other type-oflogic systems please me.  I hope for the state of translating the grammar from Lojban to Esperanto.  I hope for thestate of translating the page(s) of the Jehovah-book (the Bible) from the (at-least two) old languages into Lojban.  Iam a man and not-dense grayish-red be-haired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; la djeimis. &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi du la djeimis.  .i lemi kerfa cu kalsa je ke bunre narju  .i lemi kanla cu blanu  .i mi carmi nelci lenu cinki tadni.i mi rirni le jdaselsku cinki pe zoi le. religioso senonsis .le  .i mi xebni leka mintu gasnu .i mi tadni lenu misanji senva  .i mi pujeca na snada ri  .i mi ckule tadni le prije larcu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am the same as the one called &#039;Jamie&#039;.  My hair is chaotic-and-brownish-orange.  My eyes are blue.  I am intensely fond of the event(s) of being an insect-student.  I rear the (religious-expressor) praying insect who is &amp;quot;religios osenonsis&amp;quot;.  I hate the property of same-doing-ness without purpose (conforming).  I study the state of my consciously dreaming (being aware and able to control my dream).  I was-and-now not-succeeding at this (the state of conscious dreaming).  I school-study the wise-art (philosophy).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; With Apologies to Spock &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by Bob LeChevalier &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.a&#039;i .a&#039;i ga&#039;acpu ledo bloti&lt;br /&gt;
(Effort!) (Effort!) Rod-pusher of your boat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
bainaiku le cmari&#039;e terflecu&lt;br /&gt;
not-forcedly to the small-river place-flowed-to&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ci&#039;o leka gleki leka gleki leka gleki&lt;br /&gt;
with emotion of happiness about happiness about happiness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ki&#039;ubo loi nunji&#039;e cu nunsne&lt;br /&gt;
Because (justificational) Life is a dreaming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will note that the translation is not literal.  I tried to capture my sense of the song.  I&#039;m proud of my means of acquiring the song&#039;s necessary repetition both grammatically and productively. The first two attitudinals emphasize the strokes of rowing, as in the English version.  The nested &#039;happiness&#039;s put some meaning to the repeated &#039;merrily&#039;s ofthe English beyond more repetition emphasizing oar strokes.  It also ties in with my interpretation of the song.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There has been considerable debate about the last word.  I have chosen the interpretation that the song compares life toa (perpetual) state of dreaming, easy and gentle, relaxing and merry, like rowing a boat downstream.  If the last wordis &amp;quot;selsne&amp;quot;, my original choice, the song is harder to pronounce.  It however suggests the interpretation that life is a dream (and presumably not real).  The more I thought about it, the less I saw the first three lines as agreeing with this interpretation.  But poetry is in the mind of the beholder.  (Hmmm!  If I want to be consistent, perhaps the first two words should be &amp;quot;.a&#039;inai .a&#039;inai&amp;quot; since I want to stress the ease of rowing downstream.  This suits the rhythm better, too.  What do you think?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now I can go see what Spock thinks it means.  I welcome other viewpoints as to what the song means, especially if you translate it.  (I won&#039;t print them unless they are in Lojban, though.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; A Story from Another Culture &amp;lt;/br&amp;gt;by Preston Maxwell (with corrections by Bob and Nora) &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
so&#039;o pendo puca pinxe lo vanju&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some friends were-then drinking some wine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a goi pa le pendo cu djica lenu jarco leko&#039;a pixra cupra ka certu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He (one of the friends) desires the state of showing his picture-producing expertness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i semu&#039;ibo ko&#039;a cupra co pixra lo since&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, he picture-of-a-snake produces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i leko&#039;a pendo cu bacru zo .ii&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His friends uttered &amp;quot;.ii (Approval!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le pixra cu selcertu .ia&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The is be-experted-at (expertly done) (Certainly!).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ko&#039;a pensi cusku lu mi ba xagzadri&#039;a levi pixragi&#039;e semu&#039;i cupra co pixra lo tuple be le since&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He thinkingly-expresses &amp;quot;I will better-cause (improve) this picture and therefore (motivationally) picture-of-some-legs-of-the-snake produces.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i leko&#039;a pendo cu bacru lu .iinai lo&#039;e since cu na ponse lo tuple  .i seni&#039;ibo le pixra pujecanai xamgu li&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His friends utter &amp;quot;.iinai (Non-approval!) The typical snake not-possesses some legs.  Therefore (logical entailment) thepicture was-but-is-not-now good.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; lei lojbo by Nora LeChevalier &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This issue&#039;s strip introduces a new character, Bob and Nora&#039;s daughter la katrin. I can&#039;t say what her English name is; there are several related forms of this name in English ranging from Catherine to Katrina.  I believe the latter is the intent, though, since it is a name Nora and I have considered if we ever have a daughter.  It has the unusual advantage of being an acceptable English name for a girl and being both positive and meaningful in Lojban aswell:  ka trina translates as &amp;quot;attractiveness&amp;quot;.  la katrin. is a valid way to turn this kunbri into a name.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The humor of the comic is based on the ambiguity of English when translated into Lojban.  It shows just how hard the translation problem is if you are completely open-minded and have no context clues.  ALL of the interpretations have Sam the computer assuming that English &amp;quot;after&amp;quot; refers to time sequence, when a correct interpretation requires the semantics of physical sequencing. (Either no one has told Sam about the multiple meanings of &amp;quot;after&amp;quot;, or he hasn&#039;t gotten there yet by the end of the comic.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note that all of the interpretations given differ from each other in Lojban grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
katrin.:  doi sam. mi na jimpe levi jufra be fi	le glibau&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;O Sam, I not-understand	the-here sentence in-language the English-language.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Sam, I don&#039;t understand	this English sentence.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  mi ba sidju pe&#039;u. katrin.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;I will help you, I request you,	O Katrina.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Can I help you,	Katrina?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
katrin.:  zoi .by. Spot	ran after the ball .by.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spot ran after the ball&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       (This is	presumably read	aloud slowly with no particular	emphasis, as would happen when a child reads words&lt;br /&gt;
	  without understanding.)  The &amp;quot;zoi&amp;quot; marks a delimited quote of	non-Lojban text, with the delimiter being a&lt;br /&gt;
	  single non-compound Lojban word, in this case	&amp;quot;by&amp;quot;, the letter &amp;quot;b&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  ko viska	la ran.	mo&#039;u ba	le bolci&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;(Imperative You) See Ran after (you see) the ball.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spot Ran after the ball!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       This panel shows	Katrina	seeing a ball, and then	seeing la ran. (&amp;quot;Ron&amp;quot;?,	or &amp;quot;Ran&amp;quot; from &amp;quot;Randall&amp;quot;) at a later&lt;br /&gt;
	  time.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;mo&#039;u&amp;quot; attaches &amp;quot;ba le bolci&amp;quot; as	a modal	modifier to &amp;quot;la	ran.&amp;quot;, so that you know	that the parallelism is	between&lt;br /&gt;
	  &amp;quot;la ran.&amp;quot; and	&amp;quot;le bolci&amp;quot;.  Compare &amp;quot;ko mo&#039;u ba le bolci cu la	ran.&amp;quot; meaning &amp;quot;See, after the ball does, Ran.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  .y sa.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;...Ummm... Take	that last sentence back.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       la spat.	mo&#039;u ba	le bolci pu bajra&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;That named &#039;Spat&#039;, after the ball, past-run.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spat ran after the ball.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       This panel shows	the ball running, and then a plant (&amp;quot;spati&amp;quot;) named &amp;quot;Spat&amp;quot; from the Lojban word for plant.  The&lt;br /&gt;
	  grammar uses the alternative parallelism in the last panel, but also plays on	possible meanings of the word&lt;br /&gt;
	  Lojbanized as	&amp;quot;spat&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  .y sa.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;...Ummm... Take	that last sentence back.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       la spat.	bajra ba le nunsaldansu&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spat is-a-runner after the ball	(event-of-celebration-dancing).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spat ran after the ball.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       This panel shows	a ball,	a celebration dance, and then the plant	named Spat running at a	later time.&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  .y sa.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;...Ummm... Take	that last sentence back.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       le barna	mo&#039;u ba	le bolci cu rumpe&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;The mark, after	the ball does, runs (meltingly-spreads).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spot ran after the ball.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       Playing off both	&amp;quot;run&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;spot&amp;quot; this time, with a pictorial reference to modern surrealistic art.&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  .y sa.&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;...Ummm... Take	that last sentence back.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       la spat.	ran. po&#039;u ba le	nunsaldansu&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;The one	named Spat Ran,	after the ball.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;Spat Ran after the ball!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       A person	named &amp;quot;Spat Ran&amp;quot;, presumably because he	is wearing a plant on his suit (Yes, it&#039;s hard to see this.) has&lt;br /&gt;
	  sore feet (o&#039;e = &amp;quot;Ouch&amp;quot; is the indicator for pain or suffering), after his celebration-dancing.&lt;br /&gt;
       In afterthought,	there is another plausible meaning of &amp;quot;nunsaldansu&amp;quot; besides a celebration party	with dancing.&lt;br /&gt;
	  Specifically,	it could refer to the informal,	more individual-oriented dance of happiness one	might perform in&lt;br /&gt;
	  celebration of something.  In	spite of the usage in this strip as well as in Cinderelwood of &amp;quot;nunsaldansu&amp;quot; for&lt;br /&gt;
	  &#039;ball&#039;, note that all	such lujvo at this point are still proposals and are not &#039;set in concrete&#039;.  This new&lt;br /&gt;
	  interpretation may be	better,	since &amp;quot;ball&amp;quot; might require some	sense of &#039;party&#039;, or a mass of people:&lt;br /&gt;
	  &amp;quot;nungumsaldansu&amp;quot;.  Other tanru are possible.&lt;br /&gt;
       These are the type of questions to be resolved through usage before we write the	dictionary.  We	do not want to&lt;br /&gt;
	  enshrine lujvo with &#039;official&#039; meanings until	usage backs them up as the &#039;best&#039; or &#039;most useful&#039; or &#039;clearest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
	  interpretation.  None	of us can claim	that they have the Lojbanic skill or the cultural neutrality to	make&lt;br /&gt;
	  these	decisions alone.  At this point, when we are trying to convey stability	of the basic language elements&lt;br /&gt;
	  like the grammar and gismu, we don&#039;t need people thinking that Bob&#039;s and Nora&#039;s off-the-wall lujvo inventions&lt;br /&gt;
	  are to be enshrined.	Lojban is YOUR language, not ours.&lt;br /&gt;
sam.:  .y sa. ...&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;...Ummm... Take	that last sentence back.&lt;br /&gt;
       Presumably Sam will follow with several more possible interpretations, but Katrina runs out of the room and&lt;br /&gt;
	  doesn&#039;t hear them.  The panels given have played upon	every word except &amp;quot;the&amp;quot;, which has at least half-dozen&lt;br /&gt;
	  interpretations in Lojban (most of which are difficult to differentiate in a comic strip, but	Nora might try&lt;br /&gt;
	  that for next	time).	And eventually,	Sam might consider the other meanings of &#039;after&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
katrin.:  mi bajra ba lenu se cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;I run, after the state of being-confused-by.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       &amp;quot;I&#039;m leaving, since you&#039;ve confused me.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
       Katrina runs away, her mind blown by Sam&#039;s interpretations, incidentally	mirroring another grammatical form that&lt;br /&gt;
	  could	be used	to interpret the original &amp;quot;Spot	ran ...&amp;quot; sentence.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SCRABBLEtm for Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After several issues of promising it, I&#039;m finally managing to get this into this one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
JCB first wrote up some rules for playing SCRABBLEtm back in The Loglanist, Volume 2, in the late 70&#039;s.  No one ever reported playing the game other than JCB. his rules became obsolete around 1980 with GMR, when he remade many words as well as the rules for making lujvo.  Certainly, letter frequencies did not stay constant through this change.When we again rebuilt the gismu list for the Lojban version of the language, we also changed these frequencies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we&#039;ve now baselined the list of gismu, that portion of the frequencies should not change.  The cmavo list isn&#039;t baselined, but we know that 90% of all possible V, CV, VV, and CVV combinations have a meaning; the holes are nearly random, except for the xVV cmavo, reserved for experimental use.  So we can estimate the final letter frequencies with some expectation of validity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo are harder to deal with, since there isn&#039;t even a list of them yet. However, in developing and tuning the rafsi assignments, I had gathered statistical data from several thousand tanru proposed over several years by JCB, the old Word Makers&#039; Council, Eaton project volunteers, contributors to TL, and our own gismu list workers.  This data reflects no actual set of words, only word proposals.  However, its statistical size suggests that it can&#039;t be too far off in representing the eventual letter-frequency distribution for Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I did these letter frequency estimates right after the gismu list was baselined, and in November, converted them to SCRABBLEtm frequencies.  Nora and I also talked about some rule modifications we think are needed to practically play the game with Lojban.  I&#039;ll report my conclusions on these in a moment.  First the letter frequencies, which I give both including and excluding the lujvo data:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Letter				    non-lujvo frequencies   with-lujvo frequencies&lt;br /&gt;
      occurs Lojban/points English/points    occurs Lojban/points&lt;br /&gt;
a	991    12/1	9/1	      2949   10/1&lt;br /&gt;
e	496    6/1	12/1	      1560   5/1&lt;br /&gt;
i	1045   12/1	9/1	      2678   10/1&lt;br /&gt;
o	395    5/2	8/1	      1046   4/2&lt;br /&gt;
u	642    8/1	4/1	      1755   6/1&lt;br /&gt;
y	19     0	2/4	      5553   8/1&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;	316    4/1	-	      1012   4/2&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
b	212    2/5	2/3	      865    2/4&lt;br /&gt;
c	360    4/2	2/3	      1040   3/3&lt;br /&gt;
d	219    3/3	4/2	      862    2/4&lt;br /&gt;
f	149    2/5	2/4	      616    2/4&lt;br /&gt;
g	146    2/5	3/2	      589    2/4&lt;br /&gt;
j	249    3/3	1/8	      1008   3/3&lt;br /&gt;
k	285    3/3	1/5	      1107   3/3&lt;br /&gt;
l	348    4/2	4/1	      1395   4/2&lt;br /&gt;
m	254    3/3	2/3	      1048   3/3&lt;br /&gt;
n	563    7/1	6/1	      2047   7/1&lt;br /&gt;
p	203    2/5	2/3	      872    2/4&lt;br /&gt;
r	460    5/1	6/1	      2979   7/1&lt;br /&gt;
s	339    4/2	4/1	      1363   4/2&lt;br /&gt;
t	361    4/2	6/1	      1359   4/2&lt;br /&gt;
v	119    1/8	2/4	      490    1/6&lt;br /&gt;
x	108    1/9	1/8	      532    1/6&lt;br /&gt;
z	87     1/10	1/10	      359    1/9&lt;br /&gt;
blank	       2/-	2/-		     2/-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
h			2/4&lt;br /&gt;
q			1/10&lt;br /&gt;
w			2/4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Total	       100/184	100/187		     100/190&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve given separate statistics for non-lujvo words so that you can play without lujvo.  The significant occurrence of &amp;quot;y&amp;quot; only in lujvo requires different statistics.  Read the rules notes following to decide whether you want to include lujvo or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, to turn a standard set of pieces into a Lojban set you need to make the following changes (presumably by marking them in pencil or pen on the English pieces):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without lujvo:&lt;br /&gt;
3 e&#039;s changed to i&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
3 e&#039;s changed to a&#039;s&lt;br /&gt;
3 o&#039;s changed to u&#039;s with remaining o&#039;s changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
1 r changed to n&lt;br /&gt;
2 w&#039;s changed to &#039; with score changed to 1 point&lt;br /&gt;
2 t&#039;s changed to &#039; with remaining t&#039;s changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
1 g changed to m with remaining g&#039;s changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 y&#039;s changed to c&#039;s with 2 points, other c&#039;s also changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 h&#039;s changed to j&#039;s with 3 points, other j also changed to 3 points&lt;br /&gt;
1 q changed to u with 1 point&lt;br /&gt;
1 d and 1 v changed to k&#039;s with 3 points, other k also changed to 3 points remaining d&#039;s changed to 3 points, remaining v changed to 8 points&lt;br /&gt;
Change scores on all p&#039;s and f&#039;s to 5, on all l&#039;s and s&#039;s to 2, all b&#039;s to 3, and the x to 9.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With lujvo:&lt;br /&gt;
1 e changed to a, 2 e&#039;s changed to u, 1 e changed to i, 1 e changed to n, 1 e changed to r&lt;br /&gt;
1 e changed to c with value changed to 3 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 existing y&#039;s changed to 1 point&lt;br /&gt;
4 o&#039;s and 2 t&#039;s changed to y, with remaining o&#039;s and t&#039;s changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
1 q changed to &#039; with value changed to 2 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 d&#039;s and 1 g changed to &#039;, remaining d&#039;s and g&#039;s changed to 4 points&lt;br /&gt;
1 v changed to m with value changed to 3 points, remaining v changed to 6 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 h&#039;s changed to k with value changed to 3 points; other k also changed to 3 points&lt;br /&gt;
2 w&#039;s changed to j with value changed to 3 points; other j also changed to 3 points&lt;br /&gt;
Change score on all b&#039;s and p&#039;s to 4 points, on all l&#039;s and s&#039;s to 2 points; change x to 6 points and z to 9 points.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now for rules changes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since there is no standard dictionary that can be used as a reference, as in the English version, we have to have away to verify that words that are made are valid.  Since this is presumably also a teaching tool, we want to eliminate wild guesses, which is a problem for cmavo.  Let&#039;s handle each word type separately.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
gismu may be verified on the standard list, although optionally the person may be required to give the keyword,place structure and/or to make a sentence that reasonably uses the word as a sumti or as part or all of a kunbri; these are thus relatively easy.  Challenges can be easily resolved; mis-spellings are the most common mistakes to watch for.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
cmavo should be based either on the latest draft cmavo list or on the textbook - in the latter case, only those cmavo that have been covered up to an agreed upon point in the textbook, as well as all cmavo in the flash card list,  should be allowed.  In any case, the person using a cmavo MUST express a sentence using that cmavo in a rational way, and if challenged, must explain what the sentence means and how the meaning is affected by that particular cmavo.  rafsi are NOT words, and should not be accepted as valid.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Because nearly every possible V, VV, CV, and CVV is a valid cmavo, someone who knows the cmavo can fairly easily go out, possibly without ever drawing. As counter-     motivation, all letters in cmavo count with a value of 1,   ignoring both the face value AND multiplier squares.  You can get rid of any piece, but it isn&#039;t worth much.  On the other hand, if you make one or more gismu (and/or lujvo) at the same time as the cmavo, then the points count normally when scoring those words.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recommend that cmavo compounds either be disallowed, or that they be limited to those compounds recognized as valid by the machine grammar lexer (for those having a copy, these are compounds that are flagged with a lexer lexeme).  Note that this is NOT the same as the set used in Ju&#039;i Lobypli; in our text, we write some words as compounds that are broken into two words and kept apart by the machine grammar (such as &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;lemi&amp;quot;).  See the note following this article for more on this subject.  In any case cmavo compounds should be judged under the same rules as cmavo, except for adding the machine grammar as a reference for which words can be compounded.  Scoring for compounds should be pre-decided - either 1 point per token as for cmavo, or normal scoring;  it seems that the restrictions on valid compounds may reduce the valid set so that special scoring is not needed to make the game work properly.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
lujvo can be evaluated either by requiring that the person make a valid sentence using the word, or that the person give both the tanru that the word is based on AND a reasonable place structure and/or explanation that shows that the word has a potentially usable meaning.  Be sure to check for valid morphology, and that the rafsi used correctly represent the tanru. &#039;Reasonable&#039; meanings, and  &#039;valid&#039; sentences are going to be arguable, especially among new Lojbanists.  I suggest that, if possible, it should be left to the other players to vote on acceptability, with an urging that open-mindedness be emphasized - let Lojban stretch your mind.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le&#039;avla borrowings were not included in the statistics.  If permitted, it is recommended that the person be required to show that the word is of proper morphology (it cannot break down as a lujvo; if preceded by a cmavo, it cannot suck up the cmavo and then break down into a lujvo or gismu; and it must have a a consonant cluster in the first 5 characters, use no &#039;y&#039;s, and have no unpronounceable clusters caused by adjacent impermissible medials in the same syllable), and that it is reasonably Lojbanized from an identifiable root in another language.  I also recommend that only le&#039;avla with rafsi categorizing on the front end be permitted, this is not an official restriction on le&#039;avla, but makes evaluating validity a lot easier.  le&#039;avla are the most arguable of word forms, and should not be allowed unless all players are reasonably familiar with the rules for making and evaluating them.  While I can make le&#039;avla in my head, I would still choose to leave them out of the game at this point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
House rules should be decided in advance as to whether sentences demonstrating usage must be fully grammatical, or whether a sentence with a grammatical error unrelated to the word being demonstrated is acceptable.  The latter rule seems appropriate to me for evaluating gismu and lujvo and le&#039;avla, but I think cmavo sentences must be completely grammatical.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some hints that are applicable if you use lujvo:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Often, you can turn a gismu into a lujvo by adding a trailing vowel.  Make sure you can identify and define it, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarly, cmavo can easily be turned into brivla.  Most CVV cmavo are also rafsi that can be included in a lujvo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Prefixing a CVVr/n, CCV, or CVC/CVCy rafsi on any brivla makes a longer lujvo, if you can determine an acceptable meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Except for scoring cmavo, and adapting the rules for determining word validity to fit Lojban&#039;s lack of a dictionary, the game should proceed along familiar lines.   We haven&#039;t actually play-tested these rules, but we welcome you all to try them and to report on your results.  We may print a sample game in a later issue if a good one turns up.         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Last minute note: John Hodges has reported to me that he had devised a variation on Scrabbletm that is useful for teaching.  He is planning on using it in the Blacksburg class, which is studying Lesson 3.  Fleshing out his brief description to me gives the following:         &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can use the flash cards (up through an arbitrary lesson) and additional cards cut to the same size, or you can use a few hundred regular index cards with gismu (again, up through an arbitrary lesson) written on them. Extra cards are left free (blanks) and put in a stack; a person can take one or more of these and write any needed cmavo (you may or may not want to limit the number of pro-  sumti, but don&#039;t give too few).  The cards in your hand are lesson vocabulary words, and they are the only ones that score (probably 1 point a piece).  cmavo from the vocabulary list might or might not be worth anything. Players must build off of other people&#039;s sentences on the board. If it is grammatical, you score the number of vocabulary words that you used.  Elision is optional; if you elide correctly, though, you leave fewer cmavo lying loose for someone to build off.    &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The sentence must be grammatical, and if challenged, the person should be able to at least paraphrase it correctly into English.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is a brief outline.  I may report next issue on how it worked out for John&#039;s group.  Feel free to play with it and send me any ideas for improvements or details that I&#039;ve omitted.  The advantage of this game is that it encourages interactive learning, and it also gets people to build sentences in Lojban directly from the gismu, rather than making up sentences in English and translating them.   People who don&#039;t write a lot often have trouble thinking of topics for sentences; the limited set of gismu on the board or in your hand helps you focus on specific topics.  People who translate from English often try to express more com-   plex ideas than they&#039;ve studied the grammar for.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My writing style is not formally decided on, and may not be the best or most appropriate; but it at least is fairly regular.  I&#039;m open to suggestions and changes.  We could, for example, restrict compounds to those treated as such by the machine lexer.  However, some machine lexer compounds would be hard to read due to length, and we might not want to require these to be written as one word.  Students of the old language, who are used to compounds like &amp;quot;lemi&amp;quot; and the old &amp;quot;lepo&amp;quot; that is now written as  &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; may like the compounds as I currently write them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that by the rules for Lojban morphology, ANY cmavo that are adjacent in an expression may be compounded and written as a single word.  NO cmavo may be compounded with a brivla or name.  However, while there is no rule forbidding it, if you compound across an elidable terminator, you probably will make it difficult for a human  (though not a computer) to figure out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If compounding joins two words separated by a mandatory pause, the period representing the pause is mandatory.  Otherwise, these periods are optional aids to the reader.  In Ju&#039;i Lobypli, we will try to always include the periods, or to add them in if the author did not do so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we are a major source of &#039;good&#039; Lojban, I can&#039;t print things with known grammatical errors or obvious mistakes in, for example, tanru.  I will correct these if the change is obvious.  If I make more extensive changes  (as I did with Preston&#039;s story above), then I will indicate that it is corrected.  If there are still mistakes then,  you can blame it on me.  If you want, I will optionally return such changes to you for verification and approval  (or rewriting) before printing, in which case it will not be marked as &#039;corrected by&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you annotate your work to indicate that a given non-standard writing or grammar is intended, I will print it as you ask.  Similarly, I will use your compounding practices instead of mine if specifically asked.  For exam-  ple, Nora chooses to often write &amp;quot;lenu&amp;quot; as two words, as shown in the last panel of lei lojbo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something known to be invalid by the current rules of Lojban (as opposed to my writing style policy) will be marked with an &#039;*&#039;.  If of uncertain validity, it will be marked with a &#039;?&#039;.  There may be instances where, for poetry or example, you want to have something intentionally invalid.  As long as it is marked as such, fine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ju&#039;i Lobypli Editorial Conventions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m starting to receive a variety of Lojban text for printing in Ju&#039;i Lobypli.  There is enormous variety among these writings as to which cmavo are written as compounds.  With handwriting, I can&#039;t always tell if compounds are intentional.  I am following the practice of regularizing which words I compound to match my own writing style.  This both proposes a standard, and makes it possible to use my word processor spelling checker in a useful way.  Proofreading Lojban text is hard enough without trying to deal with a variety of writing forms.                           &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, that&#039;s it for this issue.  As I write this, it is starting to feel that we really have a language, now that several people are learning and using Lojban.  Keep it up and help make next issue even better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
co&#039;o.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123718</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123718"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T17:42:17Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
Level 0 - le lojbo karni only - $5 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 1 - le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $15 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 2 - Level 1 materials and baselined/final products - $20 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 3 - Level 2 materials and teaching materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
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The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
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In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
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Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
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Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
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[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
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Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
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After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
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na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
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The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noika	selsi&#039;a	  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi pankai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i	     cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro	     cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai	     denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a	     drani rinka     to	correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to	be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai	     badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i	     dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u		     the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i	     jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai	     panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro	remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se	ckasu	     ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se	damba	     opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i	     se	mukti	     be	motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se	renvi	     survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a	     se	sinma	     esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se	snada	     achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai	     senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai	     smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai	     virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau	     xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e	     xrani mutce     much injured&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai	 mi	senva	 le  na	 se  senva	 ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai	 mee	SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah	 keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba		 le na	 seldamba	  ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh	DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah	  keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi	     le	     drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee	     leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /     -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  virklama	     le	      virnu	na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah	     leh      VEER,nu	nah,seh	DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   -	 /   -	      -	       /    -	   -	 /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  drari&#039;a	     le	 na  draselri&#039;a	       ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah	     leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	   -   /   -		-	 -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	      curve	       je	       darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SHUR,veh	      zheh	       DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		- -		/    -	-    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     troci se	    pi&#039;o   le	   dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh TRO,shee,seh	 pee,ho,leh	du,STAH,hee keh	 BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /     -		 -	    -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     snada	      le  na	 selsnada	    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SNAH,dah	      leh,nah	 sehl,SNAH,dah	    MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		 -	  -	/   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	    selmu&#039;i	lenu  jersi	la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee	leh,nu	   ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	     -	  /  -	   -	/    -	 -   -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju	 mi  na	 pacna	 .iju	   du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu	du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	    -	  /	-      /    -	 -  -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 damba	  mu&#039;i	 loi xamgu	  sekainai    loi  senkai    ja	   depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu	  seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -      -	       /    -	   -   /   -   -    /	 -     -    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 gunta		 le  cevypro	  ki&#039;u	 le  cevmu&#039;i	      .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah	 leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /   -		  -    /     -	   -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi	 ralte	  .ai			  le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a	kei gi&#039;e    ka	curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai			  leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /	  -   -	  /    -   -			   -   /     -	     -	    /	-     -	    -		/   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi	 vreta	  sekai	 loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai			  loi  PAHP,kai	zheh   SMAH,kai	shah leh,nu mee	MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   /   -     -	  -    /    -	 -	/   -	 -   /	 -  -	/   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda	 ba	   xagmau		ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah	 bah	   KHAHG,mau		ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	  -   /	    -	  -	     /	  -		 -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu	pa  prenu	 noi selckasu	      gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu	pah PREH,nu	 noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	 -    /	  -	    -	     /	 -	   -	     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu	    troci	 sepi&#039;o		ro	leri	   vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee	 seh,pee,ho	ro	leh,ree	   VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	    -	  /	 -	   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu	    snada	 le  na	 selsnada	  ke	    tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah	 leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah	  keh	    TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	  -	-	/   -	   -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the	not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter		 against not-combatable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor		 of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer		 to the	brave-not-dared	(places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector		 of the	not-correctable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure		 -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor		 using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever		 of not	achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of	these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether	I not-hope-for.	 Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight	motivated by the good,	   (the	fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of	course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,	I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized	by the property	of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well	as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi papkai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by			  peace	and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home	 will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	one-person	 who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all	of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	achieving	 the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of the Activity Song&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Ninety-Nine Bottles of Beer on the Wall&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things	are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le	botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le	 sosoboi      dacti	cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee	shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /  -	-      /     -	  -  /	 -     -   /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 sosoboi      botpi	cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee	shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /  -	-      /   -	  -  /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i	 nu   pa  le  botpi	cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee	shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /    -   -   /   -	  -  /	  -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 bitmu	 cu   ralte	 sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh	 so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -   -   /    -	  -  /	 -     -   /   -&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:98.sip||lei lojbo]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123717</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123717"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T17:34:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* lei lojbo */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
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Level 3 - Level 2 materials and teaching materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noika	selsi&#039;a	  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi pankai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i	     cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro	     cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai	     denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a	     drani rinka     to	correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to	be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai	     badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i	     dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u		     the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i	     jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai	     panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro	remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se	ckasu	     ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se	damba	     opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i	     se	mukti	     be	motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se	renvi	     survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a	     se	sinma	     esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se	snada	     achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai	     senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai	     smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai	     virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau	     xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e	     xrani mutce     much injured&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai	 mi	senva	 le  na	 se  senva	 ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai	 mee	SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah	 keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba		 le na	 seldamba	  ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh	DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah	  keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi	     le	     drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee	     leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /     -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  virklama	     le	      virnu	na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah	     leh      VEER,nu	nah,seh	DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   -	 /   -	      -	       /    -	   -	 /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  drari&#039;a	     le	 na  draselri&#039;a	       ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah	     leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	   -   /   -		-	 -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	      curve	       je	       darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SHUR,veh	      zheh	       DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		- -		/    -	-    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     troci se	    pi&#039;o   le	   dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh TRO,shee,seh	 pee,ho,leh	du,STAH,hee keh	 BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /     -		 -	    -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     snada	      le  na	 selsnada	    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SNAH,dah	      leh,nah	 sehl,SNAH,dah	    MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		 -	  -	/   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	    selmu&#039;i	lenu  jersi	la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee	leh,nu	   ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	     -	  /  -	   -	/    -	 -   -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju	 mi  na	 pacna	 .iju	   du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu	du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	    -	  /	-      /    -	 -  -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 damba	  mu&#039;i	 loi xamgu	  sekainai    loi  senkai    ja	   depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu	  seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -      -	       /    -	   -   /   -   -    /	 -     -    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 gunta		 le  cevypro	  ki&#039;u	 le  cevmu&#039;i	      .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah	 leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /   -		  -    /     -	   -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi	 ralte	  .ai			  le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a	kei gi&#039;e    ka	curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai			  leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /	  -   -	  /    -   -			   -   /     -	     -	    /	-     -	    -		/   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi	 vreta	  sekai	 loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai			  loi  PAHP,kai	zheh   SMAH,kai	shah leh,nu mee	MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   /   -     -	  -    /    -	 -	/   -	 -   /	 -  -	/   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda	 ba	   xagmau		ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah	 bah	   KHAHG,mau		ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	  -   /	    -	  -	     /	  -		 -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu	pa  prenu	 noi selckasu	      gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu	pah PREH,nu	 noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	 -    /	  -	    -	     /	 -	   -	     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu	    troci	 sepi&#039;o		ro	leri	   vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee	 seh,pee,ho	ro	leh,ree	   VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	    -	  /	 -	   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu	    snada	 le  na	 selsnada	  ke	    tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah	 leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah	  keh	    TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	  -	-	/   -	   -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the	not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter		 against not-combatable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor		 of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer		 to the	brave-not-dared	(places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector		 of the	not-correctable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure		 -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor		 using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever		 of not	achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of	these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether	I not-hope-for.	 Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight	motivated by the good,	   (the	fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of	course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,	I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized	by the property	of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well	as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi papkai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by			  peace	and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home	 will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	one-person	 who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all	of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	achieving	 the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of the Activity Song&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Ninety-Nine Bottles of Beer on the Wall&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things	are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le	botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le	 sosoboi      dacti	cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee	shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /  -	-      /     -	  -  /	 -     -   /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 sosoboi      botpi	cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee	shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /  -	-      /   -	  -  /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i	 nu   pa  le  botpi	cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee	shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /    -   -   /   -	  -  /	  -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 bitmu	 cu   ralte	 sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh	 so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -   -   /    -	  -  /	 -     -   /   -&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:98.sip||lei lojbo]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123716</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123716"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T17:20:02Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* &amp;#039;99 Bottles of Beer&amp;#039; */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
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We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
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Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
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The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
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Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
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The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
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Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
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Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
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Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
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Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noika	selsi&#039;a	  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi pankai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i	     cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro	     cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai	     denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a	     drani rinka     to	correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to	be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai	     badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i	     dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u		     the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i	     jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai	     panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro	remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se	ckasu	     ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se	damba	     opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i	     se	mukti	     be	motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se	renvi	     survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a	     se	sinma	     esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se	snada	     achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai	     senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai	     smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai	     virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau	     xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e	     xrani mutce     much injured&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai	 mi	senva	 le  na	 se  senva	 ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai	 mee	SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah	 keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba		 le na	 seldamba	  ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh	DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah	  keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi	     le	     drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee	     leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /     -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  virklama	     le	      virnu	na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah	     leh      VEER,nu	nah,seh	DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   -	 /   -	      -	       /    -	   -	 /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  drari&#039;a	     le	 na  draselri&#039;a	       ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah	     leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	   -   /   -		-	 -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	      curve	       je	       darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SHUR,veh	      zheh	       DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		- -		/    -	-    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     troci se	    pi&#039;o   le	   dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh TRO,shee,seh	 pee,ho,leh	du,STAH,hee keh	 BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /     -		 -	    -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     snada	      le  na	 selsnada	    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SNAH,dah	      leh,nah	 sehl,SNAH,dah	    MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		 -	  -	/   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	    selmu&#039;i	lenu  jersi	la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee	leh,nu	   ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	     -	  /  -	   -	/    -	 -   -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju	 mi  na	 pacna	 .iju	   du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu	du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	    -	  /	-      /    -	 -  -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 damba	  mu&#039;i	 loi xamgu	  sekainai    loi  senkai    ja	   depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu	  seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -      -	       /    -	   -   /   -   -    /	 -     -    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 gunta		 le  cevypro	  ki&#039;u	 le  cevmu&#039;i	      .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah	 leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /   -		  -    /     -	   -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi	 ralte	  .ai			  le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a	kei gi&#039;e    ka	curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai			  leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /	  -   -	  /    -   -			   -   /     -	     -	    /	-     -	    -		/   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi	 vreta	  sekai	 loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai			  loi  PAHP,kai	zheh   SMAH,kai	shah leh,nu mee	MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   /   -     -	  -    /    -	 -	/   -	 -   /	 -  -	/   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda	 ba	   xagmau		ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah	 bah	   KHAHG,mau		ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	  -   /	    -	  -	     /	  -		 -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu	pa  prenu	 noi selckasu	      gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu	pah PREH,nu	 noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	 -    /	  -	    -	     /	 -	   -	     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu	    troci	 sepi&#039;o		ro	leri	   vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee	 seh,pee,ho	ro	leh,ree	   VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	    -	  /	 -	   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu	    snada	 le  na	 selsnada	  ke	    tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah	 leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah	  keh	    TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	  -	-	/   -	   -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the	not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter		 against not-combatable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor		 of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer		 to the	brave-not-dared	(places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector		 of the	not-correctable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure		 -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor		 using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever		 of not	achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of	these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether	I not-hope-for.	 Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight	motivated by the good,	   (the	fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of	course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,	I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized	by the property	of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well	as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi papkai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by			  peace	and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home	 will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	one-person	 who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all	of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	achieving	 the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation of the Activity Song&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;Ninety-Nine Bottles of Beer on the Wall&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things	are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le	botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le	 sosoboi      dacti	cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee	shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /  -	-      /     -	  -  /	 -     -   /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 sosoboi      botpi	cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee	shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /  -	-      /   -	  -  /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i	 nu   pa  le  botpi	cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee	shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -	  /    -   -   /   -	  -  /	  -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le	 bitmu	 cu   ralte	 sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh	 so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -   -   /    -	  -  /	 -     -   /   -&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123715</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123715"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T17:12:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* &amp;#039;The Quest&amp;#039; (&amp;#039;The Impossible Dream&amp;#039;) */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noika	selsi&#039;a	  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi pankai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i	     cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro	     cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai	     denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a	     drani rinka     to	correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to	be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai	     badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i	     dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u		     the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i	     jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai	     panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro	remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se	ckasu	     ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se	damba	     opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i	     se	mukti	     be	motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se	renvi	     survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a	     se	sinma	     esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se	snada	     achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai	     senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai	     smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai	     virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau	     xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e	     xrani mutce     much injured&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai	 mi	senva	 le  na	 se  senva	 ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai	 mee	SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah	 keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba		 le na	 seldamba	  ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh	DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah	  keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /    -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi	     le	     drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee	     leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -	  -	 /    -	      -	       /     -	   -	/    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  virklama	     le	      virnu	na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah	     leh      VEER,nu	nah,seh	DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   -	 /   -	      -	       /    -	   -	 /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije	  drari&#039;a	     le	 na  draselri&#039;a	       ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah	     leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	   -   /   -		-	 -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	      curve	       je	       darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SHUR,veh	      zheh	       DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		- -		/    -	-    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     troci se	    pi&#039;o   le	   dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh TRO,shee,seh	 pee,ho,leh	du,STAH,hee keh	 BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /     -		 -	    -	/   -	-    /	  -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije	     snada	      le  na	 selsnada	    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee	zheh SNAH,dah	      leh,nah	 sehl,SNAH,dah	    MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -	  -    /   -		 -	  -	/   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	    selmu&#039;i	lenu  jersi	la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee	leh,nu	   ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	     -	  /  -	   -	/    -	 -   -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju	 mi  na	 pacna	 .iju	   du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu	du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	    -	  /	-      /    -	 -  -	 /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 damba	  mu&#039;i	 loi xamgu	  sekainai    loi  senkai    ja	   depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu	  seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /    -      -	       /    -	   -   /   -   -    /	 -     -    /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi	 gunta		 le  cevypro	  ki&#039;u	 le  cevmu&#039;i	      .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah	 leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	  /   -		  -    /     -	   -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi	 ralte	  .ai			  le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a	kei gi&#039;e    ka	curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai			  leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /	  -   -	  /    -   -			   -   /     -	     -	    /	-     -	    -		/   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi	 vreta	  sekai	 loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai			  loi  PAHP,kai	zheh   SMAH,kai	shah leh,nu mee	MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	   /   -     -	  -    /    -	 -	/   -	 -   /	 -  -	/   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda	 ba	   xagmau		ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah	 bah	   KHAHG,mau		ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	  -   /	    -	  -	     /	  -		 -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu	pa  prenu	 noi selckasu	      gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu	pah PREH,nu	 noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -	 -    /	  -	    -	     /	 -	   -	     /	-&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu	    troci	 sepi&#039;o		ro	leri	   vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee	 seh,pee,ho	ro	leh,ree	   VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	    -	  /	 -	   -	     /	 -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu	    snada	 le  na	 selsnada	  ke	    tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah	 leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah	  keh	    TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -	-     /	  -	  -	-	/   -	   -	     /	   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva		 le na se senva	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the	not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba		 le na seldamba	ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter		 against not-combatable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi		 le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor		 of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama		 le virnu na se	darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer		 to the	brave-not-dared	(places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a		 le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector		 of the	not-correctable	superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve		 je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure		 -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se		 pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor		 using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada		 le na selsnada	mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever		 of not	achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu	 jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of	these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi	na pacna	 .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether	I not-hope-for.	 Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight	motivated by the good,	   (the	fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of	course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai	 le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,	I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized	by the property	of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well	as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai	 loi papkai je smakai	  ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by			  peace	and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda	 ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home	 will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa	prenu		 noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	one-person	 who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci		 sepi&#039;o	ro leri	vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all	of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada		 le na selsnada	ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of	achieving	 the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things    are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Observe!) One    of the bottles is-falling to the floor.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le     sosoboi      dacti    cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee    shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /  -    -      /     -      -  /     -     -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     sosoboi      botpi    cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee    shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /  -    -      /   -      -  /      -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i     nu   pa  le  botpi    cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee    shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /    -   -   /   -      -  /      -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     bitmu     cu   ralte     sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh     so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -   -   /    -      -  /     -     -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123714</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123714"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T17:02:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* Front Matter */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 - March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
Level 0 - le lojbo karni only - $5 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 1 - le lojbo karni and Ju&#039;i Lobypli - $15 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 2 - Level 1 materials and baselined/final products - $20 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
Level 3 - Level 2 materials and teaching materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noika    selsi&#039;a      kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi pankai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i         cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro         cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai         denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a         drani rinka     to    correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to    be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai         badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i         dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u             the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i         jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai         panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro    remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se    ckasu         ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se    damba         opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i         se    mukti         be    motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se    renvi         survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a         se    sinma         esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se    snada         achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai         senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai         smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai         virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau         xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e         xrani mutce     much injured&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai     mi    senva     le  na     se  senva     ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai     mee    SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah     keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba         le na     seldamba      ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh    DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah      keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi         le         drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee         leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /     -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      virklama         le          virnu    na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah         leh      VEER,nu    nah,seh    DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       -     /   -          -           /    -       -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      drari&#039;a         le     na  draselri&#039;a           ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah         leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -       -   /   -        -     -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije          curve           je           darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SHUR,veh          zheh           DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -        - -        /    -    -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         troci se        pi&#039;o   le       dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh TRO,shee,seh     pee,ho,leh    du,STAH,hee keh     BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /     -         -        -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         snada          le  na     selsnada        mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SNAH,dah          leh,nah     sehl,SNAH,dah        MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -         -      -    /   -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi        selmu&#039;i    lenu  jersi    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee    leh,nu       ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -         -      /  -       -    /    -     -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju     mi  na     pacna     .iju       du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu    du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -        -      /    -      /    -     -  -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     damba      mu&#039;i     loi xamgu      sekainai    loi  senkai    ja       depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu      seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -      -           /    -       -   /   -   -    /     -     -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     gunta         le  cevypro      ki&#039;u     le  cevmu&#039;i          .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah     leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /   -          -    /     -       -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi     ralte      .ai              le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a    kei gi&#039;e    ka    curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai              leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /      -   -      /    -   -               -   /     -         -        /    -     -        -        /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi     vreta      sekai     loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai              loi  PAHP,kai    zheh   SMAH,kai    shah leh,nu mee    MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       /   -     -      -    /    -     -    /   -     -   /     -  -    /   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda     ba       xagmau        ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah     bah       KHAHG,mau        ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -      -   /        -      -         /      -         -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu    pa  prenu     noi selckasu          gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu    pah PREH,nu     noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -     -    /      -        -         /     -       -         /    -&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu        troci     sepi&#039;o        ro    leri       vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee     seh,pee,ho    ro    leh,ree       VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -        -      /     -       -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu        snada     le  na     selsnada      ke        tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah     leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah      keh        TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -      -    -    /   -       -         /       -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the    not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter         against not-combatable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor         of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer         to the    brave-not-dared    (places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector         of the    not-correctable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure         -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor         using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever         of not    achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of    these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether    I not-hope-for.     Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight    motivated by the good,       (the    fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of    course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,    I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized    by the property    of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well    as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi papkai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by              peace    and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home     will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    one-person     who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all    of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    achieving     the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things    are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Observe!) One    of the bottles is-falling to the floor.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le     sosoboi      dacti    cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee    shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /  -    -      /     -      -  /     -     -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     sosoboi      botpi    cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee    shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /  -    -      /   -      -  /      -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i     nu   pa  le  botpi    cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee    shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /    -   -   /   -      -  /      -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     bitmu     cu   ralte     sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh     so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -   -   /    -      -  /     -     -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123713</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123713"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T16:46:55Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: /* Dialog from Evecon Presentation */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 -    March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane,    Fairfax    VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
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== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest. vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas. shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally) One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee pei do SEEP,nah cah,vee leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!) The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult. (How do you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry to hear that.  You could always sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noika    selsi&#039;a      kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi pankai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i         cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro         cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai         denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a         drani rinka     to    correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to    be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai         badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i         dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u             the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i         jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai         panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro    remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se    ckasu         ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se    damba         opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i         se    mukti         be    motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se    renvi         survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a         se    sinma         esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se    snada         achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai         senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai         smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai         virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau         xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e         xrani mutce     much injured&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai     mi    senva     le  na     se  senva     ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai     mee    SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah     keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba         le na     seldamba      ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh    DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah      keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi         le         drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee         leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /     -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      virklama         le          virnu    na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah         leh      VEER,nu    nah,seh    DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       -     /   -          -           /    -       -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      drari&#039;a         le     na  draselri&#039;a           ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah         leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -       -   /   -        -     -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije          curve           je           darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SHUR,veh          zheh           DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -        - -        /    -    -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         troci se        pi&#039;o   le       dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh TRO,shee,seh     pee,ho,leh    du,STAH,hee keh     BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /     -         -        -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         snada          le  na     selsnada        mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SNAH,dah          leh,nah     sehl,SNAH,dah        MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -         -      -    /   -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi        selmu&#039;i    lenu  jersi    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee    leh,nu       ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -         -      /  -       -    /    -     -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju     mi  na     pacna     .iju       du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu    du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -        -      /    -      /    -     -  -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     damba      mu&#039;i     loi xamgu      sekainai    loi  senkai    ja       depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu      seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -      -           /    -       -   /   -   -    /     -     -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     gunta         le  cevypro      ki&#039;u     le  cevmu&#039;i          .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah     leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /   -          -    /     -       -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi     ralte      .ai              le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a    kei gi&#039;e    ka    curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai              leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /      -   -      /    -   -               -   /     -         -        /    -     -        -        /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi     vreta      sekai     loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai              loi  PAHP,kai    zheh   SMAH,kai    shah leh,nu mee    MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       /   -     -      -    /    -     -    /   -     -   /     -  -    /   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda     ba       xagmau        ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah     bah       KHAHG,mau        ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -      -   /        -      -         /      -         -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu    pa  prenu     noi selckasu          gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu    pah PREH,nu     noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -     -    /      -        -         /     -       -         /    -&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu        troci     sepi&#039;o        ro    leri       vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee     seh,pee,ho    ro    leh,ree       VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -        -      /     -       -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu        snada     le  na     selsnada      ke        tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah     leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah      keh        TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -      -    -    /   -       -         /       -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the    not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter         against not-combatable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor         of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer         to the    brave-not-dared    (places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector         of the    not-correctable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure         -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor         using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever         of not    achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of    these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether    I not-hope-for.     Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight    motivated by the good,       (the    fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of    course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,    I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized    by the property    of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well    as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi papkai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by              peace    and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home     will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    one-person     who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all    of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    achieving     the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things    are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Observe!) One    of the bottles is-falling to the floor.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le     sosoboi      dacti    cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee    shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /  -    -      /     -      -  /     -     -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     sosoboi      botpi    cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee    shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /  -    -      /   -      -  /      -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i     nu   pa  le  botpi    cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee    shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /    -   -   /   -      -  /      -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     bitmu     cu   ralte     sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh     so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -   -   /    -      -  /     -     -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123712</id>
		<title>me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 8 moi</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=me_lu_ju%27i_lobypli_li%27u_8_moi&amp;diff=123712"/>
		<updated>2020-03-24T16:37:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Nos: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;For a full list of issues, see &#039;&#039;&#039;[[zo&#039;ei la&#039;e &amp;quot;lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u&amp;quot;]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Previous issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 7 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;Next issue: &#039;&#039;&#039;[[me lu ju&#039;i lobypli li&#039;u 9 moi]]&#039;&#039;&#039;.&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
== Front Matter ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA&lt;br /&gt;
Phone (703) 385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
lojbab@grebyn.com&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All rights reserved.  Permission to copy granted subject to your verification that this is the latest version of this document, that your distribution be for the promotion of Lojban, that there is no charge for the product, and that this copyright notice is included intact in the copy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ju&#039;i Lobypli Number 8 -    March 1989&lt;br /&gt;
Published by:  The Logical Language Group, Inc.&lt;br /&gt;
2904 Beau Lane,    Fairfax    VA 22031 USA&lt;br /&gt;
(703)385-0273&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This publication is the articles section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli, the quarterly publication of The Logical Language Group, Inc., known in these pages as la lojbangirz.  la lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed for the purpose of completing and spreading the logical human language &amp;quot;Lojban&amp;quot;.  The newsletter section of Ju&#039;i Lobypli is now separately published under the name le lojbo karni(bearing issue number 8 to correspond with this JL issue).  You should already have received that issue by the time you receive this.If not,and it isn&#039;t received within a week or two, please write and let us know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo karni was distributed to over 400 people, including all JL subscribers. Some 275 of you will receive Ju&#039;i Lobypli.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HELP!!!&lt;br /&gt;
OUR FINANCES ARE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE.&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE HELP BY BRINGING YOUR BALANCE POSITIVE (OR MORE).&lt;br /&gt;
PLEASE, DON&#039;T PROCRASTINATE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In over two weeks since LK8 went out, we have received almost no responses or income.  Our bank account will be down to about $500.00 after this issue goes out, and we need $400.00 alone just to file the 501(c)(3) papers to get our non-profit status.  I&#039;ve had to give up on getting some professional accounting help on the filing, and on better organizing our business finances; we can&#039;t afford it.  We are committed to publishing LK9 by May 1, in order to make sure that those coming to LogFest know the plans, and we don&#039;t have the money right now.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We also have put off making cassette tapes for a few more months, partly to ensure they are of good quality, partly because we cannot afford them in addition to flash cards and other inventory items that we need more immediately.  In preparing for the influx of new people we hope to receive in response to our new advertising efforts, we are spending some $1000 per month to build our publication stock and prepare new products of quality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finances will probably continue to be tight at least until after the textbook is finally published, and right now we don&#039;t have the several thousand dollars that will be needed to bulk publish the textbook.  We (Bob &amp;amp; Nora) can&#039;t finance it - our contribution has been my free labor in lieu of my getting a paying job that would almost certainly affect the schedule.  The result of insufficient funding will be that the textbook may cost much more than it should.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban is done; people are learning it.  To make it succeed, we must have further support.  I believe that la lojbangirz. has done its part of the bargain in keeping Lojban moving. Have you contributed your share?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Potential donors please note:  we have not received IRS approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, which will officially allow your donations (not contributions to your voluntary balance) to be tax-deductible.  We hope to have such approval by the end of the year.  We are operating in accordance with that section, and your contributions now should be deductible if approval is obtained later, although there is always the possibility of disapproval.  You may, if you wish, make your donation contingent on our getting such approval.  We will inform all donors at the end of the year as to the status of deductibility of their gifts. We also note for all potential donors that our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30% of our receipts on administrative and overhead expenses, and that you are welcome to make you gifts conditional upon our meeting this requirement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Your Mailing Label ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We&#039;ve simplified your mailing label, and now report to you only your current mailing status, and your current voluntary balance including this issue.  Please notify us if you wish to be in a different mailing code category.  Balances reflect contributions received thru 26 March.  Mailing codes (and approximate annual balance needs) are defined as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Level B - Product Announcements Only&lt;br /&gt;
Level 0 - le lojbo karni only - $5 balance requested&lt;br /&gt;
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Level 3 - Level 2 materials and teaching materials as developed - $50 balance or more&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Contents of This Issue ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bulk of this issue is the enclosure draft lesson 1 of the textbook, and the outline of the rest of the book.  The draft lesson has been through two revisions, but we welcome your additional comments.  The outline is approximate; we are finding it necessary to move things around a little as we teach the first class.  Some of the lessons are taking a little longer than the estimated 3 hours, though part of this may be due to it being new material and own inexperience in teaching it.  The textbook should cover all material in the outline in any case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Other Contents:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Machine Translation and Lojban - Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
le lojbo se ciska&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb&lt;br /&gt;
     Dialog from Evecon Presentation&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;The Quest&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
     lei lojbo&lt;br /&gt;
Letters and Responses&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design&lt;br /&gt;
     Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru&lt;br /&gt;
     Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Note on Materials from Ralph Dumain ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We indicated in LK8 that we would be printing submittals from Ralph Dumain.  Ralph submitted a good quantity of material for inclusion in this and later issues, including discussions of several issues relating to the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(SWH), and a bibliography on SWH.  For space and editorial reasons, we cannot print any of it in this issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the depth and scope of the material, which is outside of my expertise, I am having pc (John Parks-Clifford) review the material for technical accuracy and possible response.  Ralph&#039;s material has been provocative in the past, and Jim Brown (among others) has taken personal offense.  The new material has a mixture of information and opinion, and I want readers to be clear as to which is which.  Apparently SWH is controversial on a philosophical, sociological, and political basis, in addition to the linguistic relevance it has to the Lojban project. We like the idea of Ju&#039;i Lobypli contributing to the intellectual debate on SWH and other issues; we want that contribution to be balanced and informative.  With a quarterly publication, we have a risk of a drawn-out non-productive debate that will be confusing to new people who come into the middle of it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Our intent is to use Ralph&#039;s articles as a focus for one of the discussion sessions at LogFest, and then to print his contributions and a report on the discussions in the following JL issue (#10).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material on SCRABBLEtm for Lojban will be delayed until next issue.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Next Issue ===   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Next issue will include a reprint of a recent article in &amp;quot;The Mathematical Intelligencer&amp;quot;, by Professor Robert Strichartz of Cornell University, on the need for &#039;An International Language for Mathematics&#039;. We will discuss how Lojban meets the criteria raised by Dr. Strichartz and others, and perhaps go into a little of our design in this area. While previous versions of the language have addressed mathematical expression, Lojban is the first version of the language to include a comprehensive solution to what is called the &#039;MEX&#039; problem. We also hope to present some discussions on Lojban&#039;s usefulness as a specialpurpose language for mathematics, philosophy, logic, and computer applications. We invite your contributions on these topics, including responses to Patrick Juola&#039;s letter below. The subject will also be a topic at LogFest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Machine Translation and Lojban ==&lt;br /&gt;
by Patrick Juola&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[Patrick Juola is a consultant with the Systems Architectures Research Dept., AT&amp;amp;T Bell Laboratories, and president of Dorick Industries of Baltimore. His current research interests include knowledge representation and logic programming. For correspondence, contact him at patrick@vax135.att.com or HO 4G-628, AT&amp;amp;T-BL, Crawfords Corner Rd., Holmdel NJ 07733 (or write to us at la lojbangirz.)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an apocryphal story about an early (1952) automatic English/Russian translation project. A visiting senator asked to see the machine work, and gave it the phrase Out of sight, out of mind to translate. The senator, however, knew no Russian, so the (Russian) phrase was sent back through for the senator to read. The new version read Invisible idiot. Historically, there have been three main methods of machine translation. The simplest, earliest, and least functional can be called direct translation. These machines operate like a first-year language student; looking up a particular word or phrase in a dictionary, writing down the corresponding foreign word (or phrase), then performing simple transformations (e.g., moving the verb to the end in German) to make the result more grammatical. Like a first-year student, this requires almost no &amp;quot;understanding&amp;quot; of the language in question, and (like a first-year student) the translations produced tend to be very bad. The Georgetown Automatic Translator was an early machine of this type -- started in 1952, it became operational in 1964 and was actually in use until 1979 (and its &amp;quot;daughter,&amp;quot; SYSTRAN, is still commercially successful). With the improvement in machine capacities (and over thirty years to correct mistakes), SYSTRAN does produce acceptable translations. At the very least, direct translation provides a yardstick against which to measure more sophisticated projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The majority of the modern MT projects&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; use what is called the transfer approach. Translation is divided into three phases: Analysis, Transfer, and Synthesis. In analysis, the sentence, phrase, or paragraph to be translated is parsed into what is called a &amp;quot;parse tree,&amp;quot; a detailed description of its syntax. At the same time, the meaning of the sentence is analyzed into a semantic network, describing the meanings of the individual words and the relationships among them. This is obviously a much harder project than merely looking up words in the dictionary but is frequently necessary to get an accurate translation. For example : The city council denied a permit to the women because they advocated violence. Who advocated violence, the council or the women? (In French, they would be translated differently, because of the genders.) The transfer involves changing the parse tree in ways specific to the source and target languages (the actual &amp;quot;translation&amp;quot;, usually requiring structural changes as well as dictionary look-up), while the synthesis is reverse parsing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The transfer method tends to produce the most accurate translations. Because of its firm theoretical basis in linguistics, it tends to be robust, amenable to analysis, and easy to update/modify. On the other hand, it is expensive. The amount of semantic information required per word is usually extensive, and the transfer functions tend to be complex and expensive to write. The TAUM project&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;, for example, reported costs of $35-40 (Canadian) to develop each lexical entry (word, to non-linguists), as well as a cost of 16 cents/word for the actual translation and post-editing. (Comparable costs for human translation were about 12 cents/word.) Two sets of transfer rules must be written for each pair of languages. For the seven- language EEC, this would mean 42 different transfer functions. With the addition of Spain and Portugal, nine languages and 72 functions. And so on...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The final approach (and the one where Lojban would be most useful) is termed interlingua. Rather than writing specific transfer rules, one can instead translate into &amp;quot;linguistic universals,&amp;quot; where the meaning and structure of the internal representation are independent of the language from which they were derived. This method is the closest to true &amp;quot;machine understanding&amp;quot; of language. Translation is then a two-step process; translating into the interlingua, then translating into the target language. This approach was pursued by CETA&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; for ten years between 1961-71. It is obvious that this method is easily expandable to multiple languages, since the interlingual representation can serve as a source text for any number of translations. (Only 14 functions are needed for the EEC, for instance, and 18 when Spain and Portugal are included.) There are several disadvantages, however.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
The main problem is the design of the interlingua. Ideally, it should be capable of representing any human thought, with all its connotations and associations. The vocabulary required would stagger almost any programming team. For example, the verb to wear has four different translations in Japanese, depending upon what one wears. A programmer would not only need to be aware of this fact, but also be able to express what distinguishes the translations apart, in a form that the computer can understand. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the computer does not &amp;quot;translate&amp;quot; using an interlingua; instead, it &amp;quot;retells&amp;quot; the source text in the target language. In poorly designed systems, this can lose important syntactic details (such as the passive voice), but even in good systems, style and connotations can be subtly (or unsubtly) affected. (In contrast, a transfer approach can use cognates and similar items and avoid this problem.) Since the computer must be able to generate an interlingual representation, if for any reason the parser fails (ungrammatical sentences, specialized jargon or acronyms, typographical errors, and simple programmer or hardware errors can all cause parser failure), there can be no translation, where a transfer or direct approach can at least generate a word-by-word or phrase-by-phrase translation. Finally, it is obvious that the computer must perform two translations, with corresponding intelligibility loss in both.&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Upon examination, Lojban appears to be an ideal or near- ideal interlingua. It is independently motivated to be an artificial language &amp;quot;capable of representing any human thought,&amp;quot; although possibly with associations and connotations of its own. The actual vocabulary of Lojban is small, with the great majority of the &amp;quot;words&amp;quot; being metaphors (comet translates to bisli ke cmalu plini, &amp;quot;ice- small-planet.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; In this case, one &amp;quot;word&amp;quot; is a four-gismu utterance.) This makes the development, addition, and representation of words much easier, particularly if lexical entries contain property lists (i.e. +/-Human, +/- Animate, +/-Female, etc.) as they do in most modern translation projects. In Lojban, a tanru is defined simply and completely on the basis of its properties (&amp;quot;planet, +Ice, +Small&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;br /&gt;
Since Lojban has been developed from the world&#039;s major languages, cognates may be available for both translations, improving the accuracy of the translations. It still has both the required degree of independence (from existing languages) and a certain amount of freedom from connotations. Finally, the task of generating target text from Lojban should be marginally simplified by the regular structure and high available vocabulary (of tanru) of Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since vocabulary and language design problems have been the major stumbling blocks, Lojban could already prove a major asset to an interlingua MT project. The true power of Lojban as an interlingua cannot yet be realized, or even assessed. Computers cannot yet &amp;quot;think&amp;quot; in first- order logic.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; When this barrier is breached, (and at this point, we have left the realm of engineering and entered science-fiction) Lojban itself may be a computer programming language, making a Lojban-based translator self-programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The implications of this are staggering, since at this point the &amp;quot;translation program&amp;quot; would be capable of understanding and learning from anything it read. This could be a breakthrough into true Artificial Intelligence. At the very least, the translator would approximate human abilities in learning languages. When faced with a new word, the computer could ask for a definition (in the source language or in Lojban), then use its knowledge of the language structure to determine how that word should be used. For example, if it received the English word mallet, defined as a small wooden hammer, it would know (since it knows about hammers) that a mallet is -Human,- Animate, and +Noun. It could then use the phrase small wooden hammer in the target language, and if it ever receives the phrase small wooden hammer in another text, it can translate it into English as mallet. Even without the major breakthrough, the fact that Lojban is so structured and unambiguous simplifies vocabulary development. The act of defining a word as a tanru automatically assigns it a place in a semantic network, and this procedure could to a large extent be automated using existing AI techniques. Similarly, the act of translation into an unambiguous language automatically focuses attention on the ambiguities present in the source text, where expert systems or human intelligence can be brought to bear upon and immediately resolve them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In anything resembling artificial intelligence, there is always a conflict between those who want to &amp;quot;do it right&amp;quot;, and those who want to &amp;quot;just do it.&amp;quot; Since hardware is both inexpensive and fast, the performance of even bad designs can be quite good. In the long run, however, the problem of language understanding and translation is clearly fundamental to the development of true machine intelligence. Of the three current approaches to MT, the interlingua is clearly the most ambitious, but may offer the best long-term potential for the understanding of human and machine linguistics. Lojban (or a similar unambiguous language) cannot by itself solve the problems of automatic translation (or AI), but indicates an approach that may put the entire problem of machine intelligence on a much firmer footing. If human discourse can be expressed unambiguously and in a fashion that computers can use in their own &amp;quot;reasoning,&amp;quot; machine intelligence is easily achievable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting to speculate on one apparent limitation of Lojban-based translation. Humor based on ambiguity would be very difficult, if not impossible, to translate, since the ambiguity would have been (deliberately) lost in the interlingua. Is this a real limitation of the translator? How important is ambiguity to human language understanding? This question relates closely to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, if we assume that native speakers of Lojban would have the same language background as a Lojban-based AI. Will native Lojban speakers be able to understand ambiguity at all? These questions must unfortunately remain open for quite some time (barring theoretical breakthroughs, until we have native Lojban speakers), but are important not only to Lojban, but to the fundamental theory of &amp;quot;linguistic universals&amp;quot; and machine translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Footnotes&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;pa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;See (Goshawke 1987) for a listing of some modern projects. (Slocum 1987) has more detailed (and technical) descriptions.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;re&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Traduction Automatique de l&#039;Universit� de Montreal, 1965- 1981 (See Gervais 1980).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ci&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Centre d&#039;Etudes pour la Traduction Automatique, Grenoble, France.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;vo&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Metaphor by Jamie Bechtel and Bob LeChevalier (JL 7,   p.29).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;mu&amp;quot;&amp;gt;PROLOG, the best known logic programming language, can only express the &amp;quot;Horn clause subset&amp;quot; of first order logic.  It is also neither sound nor complete.  This is typical of logical languages where machine performance is a consideration.  (Lloyd 1984) has some highly technical discussion of the limitations of logic programming.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/references&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bibliography&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gervais A. (1980).  Evaluation of the TAUM-AVIATION Machine Translation Pilot System.  Translation Bureau, Secretary of State, Ottawa, Canada.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goshawke, Walter, et al.  (1987).  Computer Translation of Natural Language.  Halstead Press, NY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lloyd, J.W.  (1984).  Foundations of Logic Programming.  Springer-Verlag, Berlin.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Slocum, Jonathan, Ed. (1987).  Machine Translation Systems.   Cambridge University  Press, Cambridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wilks, Yorick. (1985)  Machine Translation and Artificial Intelligence : Issues and their Histories.  Computing Research Laboratory, New Mexico State University, Los Cruces, New Mexico.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== le lojbo se ciska ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi&#039;s Proverb ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[It&#039;s great when someone other than Nora or myself writes in Lojban, since it helps convince the rest of you that Lojban is indeed easy to learn and use. It is even better when the contribution comes from someone who has effectively taught himself from the teaching limited materials we have produced so far, and yet is both reasonably correct in grammar and logical in approach. Let Dave&#039;s efforts serve as example and inspiration to the many of you that are trying to learn Lojban.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note at publication: It&#039;s also important to point out that I am not that expert at Lojban yet. I found a last minute error and Nora found two more in what I had told Dave was a perfect translation. Oh well. All of our points are minor, and they are common areas for confusion or error. Dave still did an excellent job.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; came up on Lojflash and reminded me of when, back in TL, somebody was trying to translate proverbs. So I thought I&#039;d try my hand at &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; I think I got it right but I would like you or Nora to check my work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After some false starts I decided that the final sentence would be based on &amp;quot;krasi&amp;quot; which means (if I read the implicit part of the word-list correctly) &amp;quot;x1 sources x2&amp;quot;, leading to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the love of money) krasi ro ka    palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How am I doing so far?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;money&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot;, but it isn&#039;t the object of acquisitive desire; that&#039;s insatiable. Loving a particular piece of currency would only be silly; what it&#039;s evil to love is: &amp;quot;loi jdini&amp;quot;. Right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But this &amp;quot;love&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;prami&amp;quot;. The sense is of &amp;quot;desire&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;djica&amp;quot;. And &amp;quot;strong desire&amp;quot;, so I used: &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. And it&#039;s the event of that, so for x1 I end up with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are so many chances for error in that... is it ANYthing like right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what I had so far was:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le nu ke carmi djica loi jdini kei krasi ro ka palci&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
but when I pronounced it, it didn&#039;t seem to have the right oratorical feel to it. Then it occurred to me that &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; could be read as &amp;quot;x1 arises-from x2&amp;quot;, and that lets me elide the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;, giving:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke carmi djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and that is a sentence you can really thunder out as from a pulpit. It has a nice swing to it, and you can practically spit the &amp;quot;jdini&amp;quot; at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally I still wasn&#039;t happy with &amp;quot;carmi djica&amp;quot;. The point of the proverb is not that desire is wrong because it&#039;s &#039;intense&#039;, but because it is &#039;not controlled&#039;. I wanted the sense of &amp;quot;unbridled desire.&amp;quot; So there&#039;s &amp;quot;control&amp;quot; ==&amp;gt; &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; should be &amp;quot;controlled desire.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or would it? I can&#039;t quite decide whether that needs a &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;, as in &amp;quot;jitro ke djica&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;controlled type-of desire,&amp;quot; or whether the simpler tanru sequence does it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, I want the opposite of &amp;quot;jitro&amp;quot;, which would be &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; as a bridi but I see it requires &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; to limit it to one tanru, hence:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
na bo jitro (ke?) djica is my unbridled desire. I gather that I could write that &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; I won&#039;t take the chance, but &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; (if it really means &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot;) would be a handy composite to have.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, final form of &amp;quot;The love of money is the root of all evil.&amp;quot; is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci se krasi le    nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Bob:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave&#039;s reasoning was impeccable, and was accurate based on the materials he had at the time that he wrote it. He had a significant grammatical error which we didn&#039;t notice until preparing this issue; there have also been two minor changes that affected the grammar materials he used to write this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The error came when he reversed his bridi by conversion with &amp;quot;se&amp;quot;. Whereas the &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; in the &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; abstraction adequately terminated that sumti in the x1 position, he has not included a terminator on &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot;. The tanru thus continues, absorbing the &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; (The result is grammatical: two sumti with no kunbri, but is not what he wanted to say.) Since he wants to separate &amp;quot;se krasi&amp;quot; as the kunbri for the sentence, he can best do this by marking the start of the kunbri with the separator &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot;. There also are an elided &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the x1 sumti, either of which would have been adequate for termination in this sentence, but &amp;quot;cu&amp;quot; is the more general solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This gives:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    le nu ke nabo jitro djica loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first change to the grammar is that &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; is no longer required after &amp;quot;nu&amp;quot; to give &#039;long scope&#039; to the abstraction; this is the recent change mentioned in LK8. The other is that &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; is not required after &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; in negating brivla; &#039;short scope&#039; (of one brivla) on &amp;quot;na&amp;quot; is assumed (this was an error on my part when I wrote the grammar description that he used). On his other questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; in the middle of the tanru &amp;quot;jitro djica&amp;quot; is permitted but not necessary. &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot; serves only to cause grouping in tanru, and has an implicit &#039;elidable&#039; terminator &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; at the end of the tanru. Used in the manner Dave asks about, these &#039;brackets&#039; group a single term, which has no effect on the tanru or sentence structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. There are no &#039;official&#039; lujvo or definitions, but Dave&#039;s assumption of &amp;quot;unbridled&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot; seems the most logical for &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;na jitro&amp;quot; is still correct, as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Comments from Nora:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru &amp;quot;na jitro djica&amp;quot; probably isn&#039;t what you want; it means &amp;quot;not-controller type-of wanter&amp;quot;. You probably want &amp;quot;not-controlled&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;na se jitro djica&amp;quot;. As a lujvo, this becomes &amp;quot;nalseljitro djica&amp;quot;. Bob amends his last point: &amp;quot;naljitro&amp;quot; can&#039;t mean &amp;quot;uncontrolled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She would prefer &amp;quot;loi nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;lo nu nalseljitro ...&amp;quot;. She back translates as &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from the events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;. Evil isn&#039;t caused by specific things you are describing as uncontrolled desires; it is caused by things which are such events (&amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;), or possibly by the mass of such uncontrolled desires (&amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;). This is a semantic choice and not a grammar error; what you choose depends on what you think the aphorism means. Of these two, Bob would go for &amp;quot;lo&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;All evilnesses originate from events of uncontrolled desire for money&amp;quot;; if &amp;quot;ro ka palci&amp;quot; were &amp;quot;loi ka palci&amp;quot;, then the other could also be &amp;quot;loi&amp;quot;: &amp;quot;The mass of evilness originates from the mass of uncontrolled wantings of money.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The corrected expression, including all of    our comments, is thus:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ro ka palci cu se krasi    lo nu nalseljitro djica    loi jdini&lt;br /&gt;
/ro,kah    PAHL,shee shu,seh KRAH,see lo,nu nahl,sehl,ZHEE,tro JEE,shah loi ZHDEE,nee/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, these errors are relatively    minor.    Dave has the right idea.  Keep up the good work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dialog from Evecon Presentation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following dialog was used by Athelstan and Bob at the presentation on Lojban at Evecon, New Years Eve. Later that evening, this convention featured the wedding of convention organizers Bruce and Cheryl Evry. Unfortunately, none of us managed to attend the wedding due to our over-active Lojban recruiting efforts, but reports indicated that it wasn&#039;t anything to sleep through.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
B:   coi .Atlstan. xu do ba klama le specfari&#039;i    be la brus. .e la cerl.&lt;br /&gt;
     /shoi .AH,tl,stahn. khu do    bah KLAH,mah leh speh,shfah,REE,hee beh    lah brus .eh lah sheh,rl./&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Greetings, Athelstan.  Is-it-true    you will-go to the wedding of the-one-called-Bruce and the-one-called-Cheryl.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Hi, Athelstan.  Are you going to Cheryl&#039;s    and Bruce&#039;s wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   cu&#039;i go&#039;i gi&#039;onai sipna&lt;br /&gt;
     /shu,hee go,hee gee,ho,nai    SEEP,nah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Uncertain) The-last  if-and-only-not-if    (I) sleep.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    don&#039;t know.  Either that, or I&#039;ll be sleeping.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   do    na banzu sipna ca le prula&#039;icte    .ije&#039;i loi specfari&#039;i cu na cinri do&lt;br /&gt;
     /do nah BAHN,zu SEEP,nah shah leh pru,lah,HEE,shteh .ee,zheh,hee loi speh,shfah-REE-hee shu nah SHEEN-ree do/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You not-sufficiently-sleep on the    last-night. (and-how-logically-connected-this-with-the-bridi) Weddings are-not-&lt;br /&gt;
     interesting to-you.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Didn&#039;t you get enough sleep last night?  Or don&#039;t    weddings interest you?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   ja    .i mi cupli&#039;u la .uest.    vrdjinias. ca le prula&#039;icte&lt;br /&gt;
     /zhah .ee mee shup,LEE-hu lah .wehst. vr-JEE-nyas.    shah leh pru-lah-HEE-shteh/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Or.  I loop-traveled via-West Virginia on-the-last-night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Non-committally)    One or the other.  I went to West Virginia and back last night.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
B:   .uu le zu&#039;o go&#039;i cu tapri&#039;a nandu .i pei do sipna cavi le specfari&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     /wu leh zu,ho go,hee shu tahp,REE,hah NAHN,du  .ee    pei do SEEP,nah    cah,vee    leh speh,shfah,REE,hee/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Regret!)    The activity-of-the-last is tired-causingly difficult.    (How do    you feel about?) you sleep during-at-&lt;br /&gt;
     the-wedding?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m sorry    to hear    that.  You could always    sleep at the wedding.&amp;quot; (Intended humorously)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A:   u&#039;e .a&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
     /.u,heh .ah,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;(Humor!) (Expectation!)&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Ha, ha! I    expect so!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;The Quest&#039; (&#039;The Impossible Dream&#039;) ===&lt;br /&gt;
from Man of la Mancha&lt;br /&gt;
Copyright 1965 Andrew Scott, Inc. and Helena Music Corp.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) attempted to translate this song and the theme song from &#039;Man of La Mancha&#039; back in 1980 as my first effort in learning the language. I failed miserably; the grammar was far too complicated for what was presented in the &amp;quot;Loglan 1&amp;quot; book. I visited Dr. Brown (JCB) with my efforts; he was discouraging about my translation attempts and the efforts I had made to learn the language, and I abandoned my then-attempts to learn, though I continued to support the project.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I endeavored to preserve rhythm as well as content in this translation, and can sing it somewhat after a fashion. A glossary of lujvo and a couple of cmavo is given at the end.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noika    selsi&#039;a      kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi pankai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
cevmu&#039;i         cevni mukti     godly motive&lt;br /&gt;
cevypro         cevni fapro     god opposer&lt;br /&gt;
depkai         denpa ckaji     the property of waiting (pause)&lt;br /&gt;
drari&#039;a         drani rinka     to    correct&lt;br /&gt;
draselri&#039;a   drani se rinka  to    be corrected&lt;br /&gt;
drikai         badri ckaji     sorrow&lt;br /&gt;
du&#039;erda&#039;o    dukse darno     excessively far&lt;br /&gt;
dusta&#039;i         dukse tatpi     excessively tired&lt;br /&gt;
la&#039;ede&#039;u             the referent of the earlier sentences&lt;br /&gt;
mivmu&#039;i         jmive mukti     life-goal (quest)&lt;br /&gt;
papkai         panpi ckaji     peacefulness&lt;br /&gt;
rolremzda    ro    remna zdani  all-human nest (world)&lt;br /&gt;
selckasu     se    ckasu         ridiculed&lt;br /&gt;
seldamba     se    damba         opponent/foe&lt;br /&gt;
selmu&#039;i         se    mukti         be    motivated (by ...)&lt;br /&gt;
selrenvi     se    renvi         survivable&lt;br /&gt;
selsi&#039;a         se    sinma         esteemed, honored&lt;br /&gt;
selsnada     se    snada         achievable&lt;br /&gt;
senkai         senpi ckaji     the property of doubt (question)&lt;br /&gt;
smakai         smaji ckaji     property of quietness&lt;br /&gt;
virklama     virnu klama     bravely-go-forth&lt;br /&gt;
vrikai         virnu ckaji     bravery&lt;br /&gt;
xagmau         xamgu zmadu     better&lt;br /&gt;
xramu&#039;e         xrani mutce     much injured&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
    .ai     mi    senva     le  na     se  senva     ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ai     mee    SEHN,vah leh,nah,seh SEHN,vah     keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije damba         le na     seldamba      ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh    DAHM,bah leh,nah,sehl,DAHM,bah      keh,TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /    -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
    .ije     renvi         le         drikai   na  selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
   /.ee,zheh REHN,vee         leh     DREE,kai,nah sehl,REHN,vee/&lt;br /&gt;
     -      -     /    -          -           /     -       -    /    -&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      virklama         le          virnu    na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh veer,KLAH,mah         leh      VEER,nu    nah,seh    DAHR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       -     /   -          -           /    -       -     /    -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .ije      drari&#039;a         le     na  draselri&#039;a           ke  traji&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zheh drah,REE,hah         leh,nah drah,sehl,REE,hah keh TRAH,zhee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -       -   /   -        -     -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije          curve           je           darno   ke  prami&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SHUR,veh          zheh           DAHR,no keh PRAH,mee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -        - -        /    -    -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         troci se        pi&#039;o   le       dusta&#039;i     ke   birka&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh TRO,shee,seh     pee,ho,leh    du,STAH,hee keh     BEER,kah/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /     -         -        -    /   -    -    /      -&lt;br /&gt;
  .ije         snada          le  na     selsnada        mukti&lt;br /&gt;
 /.ee    zheh SNAH,dah          leh,nah     sehl,SNAH,dah        MUK,tee/&lt;br /&gt;
   -      -    /   -         -      -    /   -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi        selmu&#039;i    lenu  jersi    la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,mee    sehl,MU,hee    leh,nu       ZHEHR,see lah,heh,deh,hu/&lt;br /&gt;
    -         -      /  -       -    /    -     -   -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .iju     mi  na     pacna     .iju       du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,zhu mee,nah PAHSH,nah    .ee,zhu    du,hehr,DAH,ho/&lt;br /&gt;
    -        -      /    -      /    -     -  -     /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     damba      mu&#039;i     loi xamgu      sekainai    loi  senkai    ja       depkai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee DAHM,bah mu,hee,loi KHAHM,gu      seh,kai,nai loi  SEHN,kah  zhah  DEHP,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -      -           /    -       -   /   -   -    /     -     -    /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  mi     gunta         le  cevypro      ki&#039;u     le  cevmu&#039;i          .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee mee GUN,tah     leh SHEHV,uh,pro kee,hu,leh shehv,MU,hee     .ai,shai/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /   -          -    /     -       -   /  -    -    /  -       -    /&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  ganai   mi     ralte      .ai              le  mukti   noika   selsi&#039;a    kei gi&#039;e    ka    curve&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee gah,nai,mee RAHL,teh .ai              leh MUK,tee,noi,kah,sehl,SEE,hah   kei gee,heh kah SHUR,veh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   /      -   -      /    -   -               -   /     -         -        /    -     -        -        /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 gi  mi     vreta      sekai     loi  papkai   je     smakai   ca   lenu   mi  morsi&lt;br /&gt;
/gee,mee VREH,tah seh,kai              loi  PAHP,kai    zheh   SMAH,kai    shah leh,nu mee    MOR,see/&lt;br /&gt;
    -       /   -     -      -    /    -     -    /   -     -   /     -  -    /   -.&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  loi rolremzda     ba       xagmau        ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee,loi rol,REHM,zdah     bah       KHAHG,mau        ree,hah/&lt;br /&gt;
    -      -   /        -      -         /      -         -   /&lt;br /&gt;
 le  nu    pa  prenu     noi selckasu          gi&#039;e    xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
/leh,nu    pah PREH,nu     noi,sehl,SHKAH,su    gee,heh,khrah,MU,heh/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -     -    /      -        -         /     -       -         /    -&lt;br /&gt;
   bapu        troci     sepi&#039;o        ro    leri       vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
  /bah,pu   TRO,shee     seh,pee,ho    ro    leh,ree       VREE,kai/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -        -      /     -       -         /     -&lt;br /&gt;
   lenu        snada     le  na     selsnada      ke        tarci&lt;br /&gt;
  /leh,nu   SNAH,dah     leh,nah,sehl,SNAH,dah      keh        TAHR,shee/&lt;br /&gt;
    -    -     /      -      -    -    /   -       -         /       -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m rather proud of where I was able to obtain both pseudo-waltz 9/8 tempo, and some nice alliteration effects, as in line 12 (.i mi gunta...). Lojban&#039;s tendency towards more syllables than English occasionally forced the rhythm to be a little strained; there are places where three syllables must be said in one beat. I believe this happens quite a lot in song translations, though, and sometimes even in the original songs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Translation&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le mivmu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
the quest&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ai mi senva         le na se senva    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
(Intention!) I am-a-dreamer   about the    not-dreamable superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije damba         le na seldamba    ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And fighter         against not-combatable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije renvi         le drikai na selrenvi&lt;br /&gt;
And survivor         of sorrowful non-survivables.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije virklama         le virnu na se    darsi&lt;br /&gt;
And brave-goer         to the    brave-not-dared    (places).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ije drari&#039;a         le na draselri&#039;a ke traji&lt;br /&gt;
And corrector         of the    not-correctable    superlatives.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije curve         je darno ke prami&lt;br /&gt;
And pure         -and-afar-type-of-lover.&lt;br /&gt;
.ije troci se         pi&#039;o le dusta&#039;i ke birka&lt;br /&gt;
And attemptor         using the excessively-tired-type-of-arms(s).&lt;br /&gt;
.ije snada         le na selsnada    mukti&lt;br /&gt;
And achiever         of not    achievable goals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi selmu&#039;i lenu     jersi la&#039;ede&#039;u&lt;br /&gt;
I am motivated by states of   pursuing the referents of    these sentences.&lt;br /&gt;
.iju mi    na pacna     .iju du&#039;erda&#039;o&lt;br /&gt;
Whether    I not-hope-for.     Whether excessively far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi damba mu&#039;i loi xamgu    sekainai loi senkai ja depkai&lt;br /&gt;
I fight    motivated by the good,       (the    fighting) characterized-not-by Doubt-or-Pause.&lt;br /&gt;
.i mi gunta le cevypro ki&#039;u le cevmu&#039;i .aicai&lt;br /&gt;
I attack the godly-opponent justified-by the godly-motive.  (Of    course I will!)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i ganai mi ralte .ai     le mukti noi ka selsi&#039;a  kei gi&#039;e ka curve&lt;br /&gt;
If I retain (Certainly,    I will!) the motive which is incidentally characterized    by the property    of (its) being esteemed&lt;br /&gt;
as well    as pure,&lt;br /&gt;
gi mi vreta sekai     loi papkai je smakai      ca lenu mi morsi&lt;br /&gt;
then I rest, characterized by              peace    and quietness, at-the-time-of the-event-of I die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i loi rolremzda     ba xagmau ri&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
The world of man&#039;s home     will be-better, because&lt;br /&gt;
lenu pa    prenu         noi selckasu gi&#039;e xramu&#039;e&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    one-person     who, (he/she) incidentally (being) ridiculed and much-injured,&lt;br /&gt;
bapu troci         sepi&#039;o    ro leri    vrikai&lt;br /&gt;
(he) will have attempted,     using all    of his/her bravery,&lt;br /&gt;
lenu snada         le na selsnada    ke tarci&lt;br /&gt;
acts of    achieving     the not-achievable star(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are several grammatically unnecessary &amp;quot;ke&amp;quot;s inserted to preserve Lojban&#039;s stress rules. These, and including elidable terminators like &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot; when otherwise unnecessary, will probably be a useful bit of &#039;poetic license&#039; that is perfectly grammatical. In the next example, the normally elidable number terminator &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot; is used for this purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== &#039;99 Bottles of Beer&#039; ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following is taken verbatim from Lesson 3 of the draft textbook, and uses only vocabulary and grammar taught up to that point. Not great literature, but we have only 300 words and less than 1/6 of the grammar available to use at that point, yet the translation comes out as desired.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A SONG ACTIVITY&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We get to do something different at this point. We will practice numbers, abstraction, and pronunciation, by singing a Lojban translation of a familiar song:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song is translated in the answer key in the back of the book, in case the instructor wants to use this as a group or individual exercise. The elidable &amp;quot;ku&amp;quot;s and &amp;quot;kei&amp;quot;s have been omitted for the sake of the rhythm, whereas some of the &amp;quot;boi&amp;quot;s, all unnecessary, seem to help that rhythm.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You will find, of course, that the translation is not identical to the English, but is close enough that you will be able to identify the song and its tune. When the class knows what the song means, it can then be sung as a group pronunciation exercise, with a little quick thinking on your numbers necessary in order to do later verses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Note the use of the abstraction as an observative bridi. This is a fairly unusual occurrence; it would be hard to find a better or more appropriate example of when it is useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[I - You should have pre-written the song in large print on a board so you can talk about the translation if needed, and so you can point to lines as they are sung.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After a couple of verses, you can speed up the activity and make it more challenging by having more than one bottle fall. Just say (or change on the board):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
xa le botpi cu farlu&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and indicate that they are to continue. If necessary, help them out by writing in numerals (not text), the new number of bottles. Pre-plan the numbers to be subtracted so that you use all of the digits, and have the answers in front of you so you don&#039;t make a mistake. It is a good idea to have rehearsed this one with your partner.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
le sosoboi dacti cu botpi le birje&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine things    are-bottles containing beer.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le sosoboi botpi cu galtu&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The ninety-nine bottles are high.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i nu pa le botpi cu farlu le loldi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Observe!) One    of the bottles is-falling to the floor.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.i le bitmu cu ralte sobiboi le    botpi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The wall retains ninety-eight of the bottles.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Pronunciation and Phrasing Guide&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     le     sosoboi      dacti    cu  botpi     le birje&lt;br /&gt;
    /leh so,so,boi    DAHSH,tee    shu BOT,pee   leh BEER,zheh/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /  -    -      /     -      -  /     -     -   /     -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     sosoboi      botpi    cu  galtu&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh so,so,boi    BOT,pee    shu GAHL,tu/&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /  -    -      /   -      -  /      -&lt;br /&gt;
     .i     nu   pa  le  botpi    cu  farlu     le  loldi&lt;br /&gt;
    /.ee nu   pah leh BOT,pee    shu FAHR,lu   leh LOL,dee/&lt;br /&gt;
      -      /    -   -   /   -      -  /      -    -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
 .i  le     bitmu     cu   ralte     sobiboi      le  botpi&lt;br /&gt;
/.ee leh BEET,mu shu  RAHL,teh     so,bee,boi   leh BOT,pee.&lt;br /&gt;
  -   -      /    -   -   /    -      -  /     -     -   /   -&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, the rhythm came out perfect, and the last line even emphasizes the digit which changes.  Try it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== lei lojbo ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a new strip:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    ba te cmene do zo sam.&lt;br /&gt;
     I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mu&#039;i bo    le nu zo sam. rafsi zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     Because (motivational) the-state-of &#039;Sam&#039; is-the-affix-for    &#039;skami&#039;    (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    will call you &#039;Sam&#039;, since &#039;Sam&#039; is the    affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: mi    skami gi&#039;e se cmene le rafsi be    zo skami&lt;br /&gt;
     I &amp;lt;compute-(logical AND)-{am-named    the affix of &#039;skami&#039;}&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    .ua mi jimpe loi cmene&lt;br /&gt;
     (Discovery!) I understand the-joint-mass-of names.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m a computer, and am named the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.  Wow! I understand names.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      mi nitcu lei zbabu le    nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I need the-specific-mass-of-soap-I-have-in-mind for-purpose the-act-of washing-this.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ra zvati ma&lt;br /&gt;
     The referent of the earlier sumti (the soap) is-at    where?&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I    need the soap to wash this.  Where is it?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .ue zo .bab. rafsi    zo zbabu&lt;br /&gt;
     (Surprise!) &#039;bab&#039; is the affix for    &#039;zbabu&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Oh! &#039;bab&#039;    is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;soap&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: la    bab. zvati ti&lt;br /&gt;
     The-one-called-&#039;bab&#039; is at    this-here-place.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    ko pilno la bab.&lt;br /&gt;
     (Imperative you) Use the-one-called-&#039;bab&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;bab&#039; is here.  Use him!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      .ui la sam. drani&lt;br /&gt;
     (Happiness!) Sam is-correct.&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    mi ba pilno do doi bab.    le nu lumci ti&lt;br /&gt;
     I will use    you (Vocative: O Bob) for-purpose the-act-of-washing this.&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;Sam&#039;s right.  I&#039;ll use you to wash this.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nora:      do prije doi skami&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;You are-wise (Vocative: O    computer).&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob: mi    cfipu&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;I&#039;m confused.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam: .e&#039;e cu&#039;i&lt;br /&gt;
     (Decision - modified as indifferently positive/negative = Indecision)&lt;br /&gt;
     .i    zo .noras. rafsi ma&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;quot;&#039;noras&#039; is-the-affix of what (Lojban word)?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The joke should be obvious in this case. Our friendly computer has generalized from a single case, as he has done in previous strips. Nora&#039;s poetic streak has allowed her to be the beneficiary of this supra-logical generalization, instead of the victim she usually is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lojban names (as opposed to Lojbanized non-Lojban names) will probably be made from words and rafsi in just this manner: &#039;Lojban&#039; itself is such a name. There are no conventions to distinguish Lojbanized non-Lojban names from coined-in-Lojban names - a name is simply what is used to label something; the etymology of a name, like most word etymologies, is interesting and sometimes informative, but is not generally vital (or even relevant) to communications. Lojban uses word-building to allow such etymology to serve as a clue to a listener who doesn&#039;t know the word; this hopefully permits greater power to express new concepts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among other interesting grammar aspects in this strip are the changing meanings of &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot;. Like its corresponding English word &amp;quot;this&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;ti&amp;quot; can change meanings as often as several times in a sentence. Its fellow demonstratives &amp;quot;ta&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;tu&amp;quot; also can vary. These &#039;pronouns&#039; mean only what you want them to at the time you use them - the attachment of &#039;pronoun&#039; to referent does not remained fixed as it does for &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and its free variable relatives and &amp;quot;da&amp;quot; and its bound variable relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; and its relatives also vary as the sentence develops. These are the &#039;back-counting&#039; variables. &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; refers to the immediate preceding sumti; &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; to an earlier but nearby sumti; &amp;quot;ru&amp;quot; to a relatively far back sumti. In the sentence using &amp;quot;ra&amp;quot; in the comic, we could not use &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; since it would refer to the &#039;le nu ...&#039; sumti at the end of the previous sentence. Back-counting from within a sumti cannot refer the sumti itself: &amp;quot;le nu ri xamgu&amp;quot; is not self- referential; the &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; does not count the &amp;quot;le&amp;quot; of which it is a sub-part.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When you need to hold onto    a back-reference, you can assign it to a &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;-series variable    with &amp;quot;goi&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
mi nelci ri goi    ko&#039;a . i la Noras. nelci ko&#039;a&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; were not assigned to &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;, you could not tell the referent of &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot;. If you used &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; again, it would refer to &amp;quot;la noras.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is debate as to whether other pro-sumti should be counted: Does &amp;quot;mi nelci ri&amp;quot; say that I am fond of myself, or of some earlier sumti referent? I (Bob) favor ignoring simple pro-sumti in back-counting for pragmatic reasons: it wastes the counting access to other sumti. The counting is harder but more useful. This is a debate dating from earlier versions of the language (where &amp;quot;ko&#039;a&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ri&amp;quot; usages used the same set of words); the question will probably be settled based on usage by the first speakers in the next couple of months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first caption, .i mu&#039;i bo is used to motivationally connect the second sentence to the first. The structure to connect two sentences is, of course &amp;quot;.i&amp;quot;. But if you want to add a causal (or any modal) connective (like &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; to tie the two sentences together, you need something to separate the &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; from the main sentence. Otherwise, it will be taken as a modal sumti tag. From our caption for example, if the &amp;quot;bo&amp;quot; were omitted, &amp;quot;mu&#039;i&amp;quot; would slurp up &amp;quot;zoi .sam.&amp;quot; making the caption translate as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be-who-calls-by-name you &#039;Sam&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
Because (motivational) of &#039;Sam&#039; (something) is-the-affix-for &#039;skami&#039; (computer).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;I will call you &#039;Sam&#039;. Because of &#039;Sam&#039;, something is the affix for the Lojban word for &#039;computer&#039;.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This isn&#039;t what you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LK8 strip is repeated, now that you know how the names came about:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob attaches a portable &#039;robot&#039; peripheral to &#039;Sam&#039; the computer. He uses a complex tense to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
do punaijeca litru doi sam.&lt;br /&gt;
do &amp;lt;({pu nai} je {ca}) litru&amp;gt; &amp;lt;doi sam.&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You past-not-(logical AND)-present travel.  Vocative: O Sam.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;You couldn&#039;t-and-now-can travel, O Sam&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam is happy about this (Will a computer that understands Lojban be able to use emotional indicators?):&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.ui&lt;br /&gt;
(Attitudinal indicator of happiness)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sam causes Nora to drop her paint brush by surprising her:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
coi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Greetings!&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
chases the cat:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ko denpa doi lat.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Imperative You) Wait.     Vocative: O Lat.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;lat&amp;quot; is the rafsi for &amp;quot;mlatu&amp;quot; (x1 is a    cat).&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Wait, O Cat! &amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and causes Bob to trip while watching cartoons on television (what else    would a    mobile computer    do?)  Bob complains:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
.oi&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;(Attitudinal indicator    of complaint)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and the    robot ends up in the garbage can.&lt;br /&gt;
Sam, in self-pity,    uses an    even more complex tense    to say:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
pu ki ku mi punaijecajebanai litru&lt;br /&gt;
{pu ki ku} {mi &amp;lt;{pu nai} je {ca} je {ba    nai}&amp;gt; litru}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Relative to a previous    reference time:     I &amp;lt;past-not-(logical AND)-present-(logical AND)-future-not&amp;gt; travel.&lt;br /&gt;
(Sorrow/regret!)&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;At some (the) previous    time, I    couldn&#039;t-and-now-could-and-then-couldn&#039;t-in-the-future travel. Oooh!&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ki&amp;quot; resets the space-time reference point (the narrative time) to the tense it is attached to, in this case an unspecified but obvious-from-context time in the past. The remainder of the expression then is expressed from the point of view of that time. We do something like this with complex tenses in English, such as in:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had better have gotten up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second sentence, expressed in the past tense, nonetheless is probably in the future of the speaker; the &amp;quot;had better&amp;quot; is one irregular way to put the reference time to that of the previous sentence. Compare with:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She got up early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She has gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;She will be at    work by    7AM.  She had gotten up    early.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these conveys a slightly (and perhaps subtly) different relationship between the time of expression, the time of arriving at work, and the time of getting up. The relative time-frame expressed by succeeding sentences will also vary depending on which of these forms is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By putting the attitudinal after &amp;quot;litru&amp;quot;, the implication is that the travelling is the source of the regret, rather than the whole sentence. Attitudinals attach to the previous word (or structure - if the word is a terminator of a structure), unless at the beginning of the sentence, where it modifies the whole sentence, or unless preceded by &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; which causes indicator scope to the right until marked, even across sentence boundaries. This latter may not be a truly &#039;natural&#039; usage; the assumption is that emotions expressed as indicators are somewhat spontaneous, and that true &#039;forethought&#039; is unlikely. However, discursives such as &#039;On the other hand&#039; and &#039;However&#039; are also expressed as indicators, so that the possible usage for emotional expression is a side effect. (It is useful for ritualistic and poetic expressions of emotion, and I used &amp;quot;fu&#039;e&amp;quot; in the Lord&#039;s Prayer translation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As indicated in LK8, the humor derives from the &#039;natural&#039; use of the complexity of the tense by our all-too-literal computer. In actuality, tenses of this complexity will be uncommon in Lojban. Remember, of course, that tense is optional in Lojban in the first place. Lojban &#039;tense&#039; also can include location, and it is permitted to inflect Lojban bridi with causal, comparative, and modal operators using the grammar of tense, such that they act like a cross between a tense and an English adverb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (Bob) spent a lot of time developing a systematic tense approach that treats time and space as equally as possible (allowing straightforward discussion of relativity concepts), while allowing the forms used in common conversations to simplify down to their past Lojban usage. I used inputs from John Parks-Clifford, whose specialty is tense logic, and he has reviewed the current design. Only usage will determine whether some of the more esoteric forms are worth having.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The design is both simple and complex. It is simple from the standpoint that all structures are set up to follow a single pattern so that it is easy to determine what pieces of a complex tense expression mean, and the proper order of terms. The result is that our tense design is grammatically unambiguous under the LALR1 algorithm, like the rest of the language. Previous language versions did not define the structure of tense compounds, and I found them to be a major area of ambiguity in grammar as well as inadequately defined.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tense system is complex in terms of the power involved in such a design, and the number of rules and words needed to express and explain it (tense-related rules constitute about 15% of the grammar). If pc hadn&#039;t convinced me that English tense expressions are among the most convoluted and hard to understand parts of the language, I would evaluate my own design as using a steamroller to squash an ant. As it is, there will be a lot of the structure that will be little used except by physicists and philosophers. So, you learn it and possibly forget it - until you run across a situation like the one in the comic, when it is both clear and elegant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters and Responses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Cortesi was one of those who reviewed the section of the draft grammar description and cmavo list that I produced late last year. His comments were almost embarrassingly complimentary, but he urged me to print them anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Dave Cortesi on Lojban&#039;s Design ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me say, man, I am IMPRESSED. There is one hell of a lot of high-quality engineering visible in this work. You should take great pride in how much you&#039;ve accomplished. Sure, lots of the ideas and work came from others, but you have done an amazing job of organizing and coordinating a huge quantity of very, very sophisticated stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is an interesting contrast here. Jim Brown&#039;s Loglan-1 was written in such an articulate, charming way (as is all his work) that it sold me totally, and I set out to learn the language on my own. I well remember the many hours of extremely frustrating labor that followed until I gave up. And of course over the following years we found out the language of Loglan-1 wasn&#039;t anywhere near done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now here we have these very dense, not very charming, engineering notes on the design of Lojban. I can&#039;t say for sure yet, but it looks to me as if this language really is there to be learned.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess if you can&#039;t have both good engineering and good writing then the Lojban effort at least did the more important thing first, which is to really get the design finished.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That doesn&#039;t let you off the hook,    though;     I still insist    you have to rewrite that summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039; Bob responds: &#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dave is a professional writer, with books and columns under his belt, so I take his comments seriously. The consensus among the reviewers was that, from what I had finished, it was clear that the language was done and ready to be taught (hence our current classes). The description, however, was written as a design specification - and my writing experience outside these pages is limited to writing government system specifications. I&#039;m good at that, but what is needed in a specification is detail and accuracy, and convincing the reader that the design is well thought out and complete. Dave&#039;s comments show that Lojban-as-an-engineered-language meets that standard. The grammar description, though, is so dense that it can only serve as a reference work for someone who has the basics of the language down. It then provides answers to a lot of nitty-gritty questions about how to resolve priorities of grammar rules, etc. It is also designed to be used with the machine grammar description, which is a very formal set of rules. We thus don&#039;t recommend either to anyone not willing to work at it, and possibly being familiar with computer language specifications in &#039;BNF&#039; format.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The grammar description will not be revised until the textbook is done. It has thus fallen into being a little obsolete, as minor changes are made in tuning the grammar while we write the textbook. It still is a valuable document for what it covers, and the final draft version (late this year) will serve as the basis for the grammar baselining that will truly say that Lojban is DONE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Rory Hinnen&#039;s tanru ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;m a manager in a fast food restaurant here in California, so when you suggested you want lujvo based on what we deal with, as a joke I started messing with the once-uniquely-American concept of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutsabdja is of course what you get when you go to any McDonalds. Not necessarily quickly made, or even fresh, but theoretically served fast. Probably this is what most people have in mind when they think of fast food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
sutyjupydja would be microwaveable food. sutryzbadja would be the corporate ideal (I refuse the concept that fast food is truly &amp;quot;cooked&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to the customers&#039; ideal of sutkemjupsabdja, food that is made and served quickly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The decor of said establishments encourage sutctidja (or in English, &amp;quot;suicide&amp;quot;), which could result in be&#039;ucro. But then that might be from slabu (slasutsabdja) sutsabdja, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That&#039;s not bad, actually. Compared to the English &amp;quot;Fast food&amp;quot; (two syllables, rather difficult to say because of the sibilants), sutsabdja has only one more syllable and seems to be just as fast. In terms of written space, they&#039;re equal (I&#039;m counting the space as an active letter - although one could write fastfood, the reader would probably regard it as an error).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;Bob responds:&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The tanru and lujvo are quite good and entertainingly presented; it is clear that Roy is attempting to make fine distinctions with his various words, and the Lojban conveys those distinctions nicely. This is one of my favorite aspects of Lojban - thinking about what exactly you want to say, and expressing it concisely and effectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Doug Loss Responds to my JL7 Comments ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, thanks for the comments on my tanru attempts. I now realize that I got my ordering mixed up. I think this was primarily because I remember (whether accurately or not I don&#039;t know) that metaphors used to make CPXs in Loglan weren&#039;t required to fit into any specific pattern. I therefore didn&#039;t try to do so. I also tried to be aware of the place structure of the words I used, and when filling in the place structure would get at what I wanted the word to mean, to list the gismu in my prospective tanru in that order.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I therefore concur on the word tadsmadycfi for SF. And your penpe&#039;i or penpenmi look good to me for seminar.&amp;quot; As for the schwa/&amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphen question, I guess I mostly want to not have too long strings of either vowels or consonants. (Did the word order in that last sentence betray any of my PA Dutch heritage? It doesn&#039;t look quite right to me, but I don&#039;t know why.) I noticed the problem more often with &amp;quot;r&amp;quot; hyphens in the middle of consonant strings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I tried translating the Lord&#039;s Prayer into Loglan about 10-11 years ago, I translated &amp;quot;daily bread&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;that which we need for life each day.&amp;quot; As I recall, there was a word in L4&amp;amp;5 for &amp;quot;necessities of life.&amp;quot; It seemed that this was what was meant by the (metaphorical) &amp;quot;bread.&amp;quot; For what it&#039;s worth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been thinking about Jamie Bechtel&#039;s tanru and would like to take a crack at 3 of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You were correct in your comments on his attempt at &amp;quot;white noise,&amp;quot; but your cunso dirce or blabi dirce don&#039;t get at the concept either, I&#039;m afraid. I&#039;m pretty sure this is the correct definition of white noise, although it wouldn&#039;t hurt to check with an audio engineer: sound with equal energy at all frequencies, to the limit of the transducer. This isn&#039;t random at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To get at that definition, I made &amp;quot;frequency&amp;quot; as slilu parbi, which collapses nicely to sliparbi. Then white noise becomes rolsliparbi sance (or ro sliparbi sance; I&#039;m still not sure when and where rol can be used). There is a similar concept called black-body radiation, although I&#039;m a bit hazy on the exact definition of the term. I think rolsliparbi dirce might be closer to that than to white noise, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A sieve is a specialized version of a more general concept, a filter. &amp;quot;Filter&amp;quot; (or &amp;quot;sieve&amp;quot;, for that matter) might be sepli zbasu, which collapses to sepyzba or se&#039;izba. Any place structure for this concept should include a place for the fineness of the filtering, something like &amp;quot;X filters Y at fineness Z.&amp;quot; Do we get to make new place structures for tanru? They will often (I suspect) have different meanings than modified versions of the last gismu in them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Brachiate&amp;quot; is relatively easy. Assuming Jamie means to swing through trees like gibbons do, try birka dandu muvdu. This collapses to birdadmuvdu or birdadmu&#039;u. If he means having widely spreading branches or having brachia (armlike appendages), I haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name for the mythical country seems straight- forward too. Loglandia was a cute play on the last 3 letters of &amp;quot;logla&amp;quot; and the first 3 of &amp;quot;land.&amp;quot; Since &amp;quot;loglan&amp;quot; wasn&#039;t a word in Loglan, it didn&#039;t matter that this was an entirely English jape. As lojban was constructed to be a word in lojban, the name of the country should also be so constructed. So, la lojbangug. Or if that doesn&#039;t feel nice on the tongue, how about la lojbangu&#039;es or la lojbangu&#039;en.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;d like to close with a few comments about Kenneth Clark&#039;s letter. First, his aversion to ambiguity is not universally shared. There are times when ambiguity is exactly the right thing to have in an utterance. And considering idioms, metaphors and cliches as the &amp;quot;first step in the destruction of a language&amp;quot; is just plain silly.  Those things are what give languages their power and beauty.  Let me give you an example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently heard the president of Bell Atlantic say, &amp;quot;At Bell Atlantic, we&#039;re more than just talk.&amp;quot; This is obviously an ambiguous statement. Idiomatically, it means that BA doesn&#039;t just talk about doing things, they actually do them. That is the way such a statement would normally be interpreted. However, the statement had been preceded by a discussion of the many aspects of BA&#039;s business, including leasing and computer repair. The statement could be taken as a summation of that discussion. This ability to have a statement mean two quite different things and to have both of the meanings be intended is quite enthralling to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If Mr. Clark meant to rail against unintended ambiguity, I agree. But if he meant it the way I took it, I&#039;m afraid he&#039;s trying to do vascular surgery with an ax.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Finally, his combative attitude on the S-W test question was annoying. Lambasting whoever mentioned it next because they didn&#039;t meet his imagined standards would be counterproductive, as well as mean-spirited. If he has anything useful to say about how to run a study, he should say it, rather than pontificate about everyone else. After all, &amp;quot;If you&#039;re not part of the solution, you&#039;re part of the problem.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bob&#039;s notes and responses:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your note on The Lord&#039;s Prayer seems reasonable to me. My attempt aimed at a literal translation, partly to show just how complex the logical structure is, and partly to show some of the problems with Lojban translation. We also wrote it in a couple of hours during a windy picnic, without really striving for &#039;art&#039;. My main concern, of course, is that religious and political materials are so often controversial, that I wanted to minimize interjecting my personal interpretations. I believe, by the way, that any valid translation of biblical materials must be from the oldest sources, and bearing in mind the cultures of the biblical times. I by no means have the expertise in either the languages or culture to attempt a scholarly defensible effort.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Your definition of &#039;white noise&#039; is good, but I&#039;m not sure that your tanru captures it - you omit the critical feature of &#039;equal&#039; (which is a major distinction from black-body radiation, which is a non-equal distribution). White noise isn&#039;t of course exactly equal at all energies, although that is the goal; it also isn&#039;t necessarily (or even usually) a &#039;sound&#039;. The nature of any variations in white noise from equal distribution is based on chance, and this was the feature I used for my tanru. cunso conveys the concept of &#039;chance&#039; as much as of &#039;randomness&#039;. Perhaps I need cunso dunli se dirce. (I should have included the &amp;quot;se&amp;quot; in my original tanru; without it, you have the white noise generator, not the radiation.) Note that slilu has frequency built into the place structure&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;ro&amp;quot; and other numbers/quantifiers cannot directly be used in tanru; the result, if grammatical, is one or more sumti, and the quantifiers always have scope over the entire tanru. You can use quantifiers in lujvo, however, as if they worked in tanru. Thus, ro te slilu dirce would be a sumti meaning &amp;quot;all which are frequency radiating&amp;quot;, but rolterslidi&#039;e can mean &amp;quot;all-frequency radiation&amp;quot;. To use quantifiers in tanru, you need a suffix cmavo such as the cardinal suffix &amp;quot;mei&amp;quot; or the ordinal suffix &amp;quot;moi&amp;quot;, which turn the quantifier into the grammatical equivalent of a brivla. Thus, a good compromise tanru (and lujvo) for white noise might be te slilu romei dunli se dirce, or tersliroldu&#039;i seldi&#039;e - note the suffix cmavo can&#039;t be retained in the lujvo given our current rafsi set.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
tanru have the place structure of the last term of the set ALWAYS. A lujvo can, and usually does, vary from this in some way. In tanru, you can attach sumti to each of the tanru element brivla using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot;, which you obviously cannot with lujvo. Thus a tanru like sepli zbasu has the place structure of zbasu. But, more completely the full bridi translates as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
x1 &amp;lt;(apart-from y2) type-of (makes/builds)&amp;gt; x2 out of x3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
where y2 is the 2nd place of sepli. x2 is obviously the filter product, and x3 the source material. A similar tanru with a different place structure (and therefore emphasis) would be sepri&#039;a (sepli rinka), or, emphasizing the tool or apparatus nature as opposed to the operator of the equipment: sepli rinka tutci, sepli zbasu tutci, sepli rinka cabra, sepli zbasu tutci. All validly convey aspects of &#039;filter&#039;, though none convey the place structure you want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To clearly get such a place structure, you need to find a tanru for the concept you want to include, and add that into the tanru, or as a separate element of the lujvo, or as a modal addition onto a place structure that doesn&#039;t include it. I&#039;ll skip the last for your example; it isn&#039;t necessary or efficient. I believe that you want &amp;quot;klesi&amp;quot; in your tanru: klesi sepli zbasu (cabra), giving the implicit place structure: &amp;quot;x1 is a &amp;lt;(category of y2 with property y3) (apart from z2) type-of maker&amp;gt; of x2 from x3&amp;quot;. y3 is the place I think you want, which may not necessarily be a &#039;fineness&#039;, but is whatever property is being filtered out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To express this place in a tanru is complicated and possibly confusing, but we can choose to define the lujvo &amp;quot;klese&#039;izba&amp;quot; as &amp;quot;x1 filters x2 from x3 on property x4 (leaving x5 ?)&amp;quot;. This captures and condenses the complex tanru structure reasonably effectively. We could have this place structure on the shorter lujvo, using the approximation and simplification properties allowed in making lujvo from tanru that allow us to drop out extraneous terms if no conflict results. I would leave the extra term in this case, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This type of analysis is what we will do in formalizing dictionary-standard lujvo. For &#039;nonce&#039; lujvo, you can be looser in your analysis, provided that the understanding of your listener is taken into consideration. (You can be looser about place structures in conversation than in writing, for example, since your listener can always ask about an uncertain place structure.) tanru place structures are, however, sacrosanct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The language is a defining characteristic of &#039;Loglandia&#039;, so la lojbangug. seems OK to me. Better though, we could simplify the source tanru to lojbo gugde, leaving out the &#039;language&#039; as self evident: la jbogug. or la lobgug. or la lo&#039;ogug. (I prefer the first.)  Alternatively, we can recognize that &#039;Loglandia&#039; is not really a place with a physical territory, and use &amp;quot;natmi&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;gugde&amp;quot;, giving possibilities such as la jbonat. or la lobnat. or la lo&#039;onat. (Any preference - they all seem good to me?) Of course, these are OK when used within the community that knows the language - we still need an English cognate word for the normal usage, which is in simple English examples for non-Lojbanists or new Lojbanists. The Lesson 1 enclosure has my solution, which pc liked as well: &#039;Lojbanistan&#039;. The name conveys an exotic non-European nature while honoring the little seen contribution of Hindi/Urdu to Lojban. My only concern was based on the possibility that people would attach political significance to anything sounding like &#039;Afghanistan&#039;, given events of the last 10 years (none is intended, of course). I suspect that the connotations of that country name are both cultural and temporary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On your last point, I agree that ambiguity (semantic, at least) and metaphor are vital and probably unavoidable in a &#039;real&#039; language. Lojban offers the opportunity of minimizing or possibly avoiding such ambiguity WHEN DESIRED, while retaining its availability when appropriate. Lojban usage will strongly vary among people. Contrary to any implications in lei lojbo, I am prone to using tanru, sometimes colorful ones. Nora, on the other hand, avoids using tanru or qualifies them, using &amp;quot;be&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;bei&amp;quot; to specify sumti wherever she can. Nora obviously prefers a less ambiguous language. There is room in Lojbanistan/la jbonat. for both points of view. The balance between ambiguity and specificity that will evolve in Lojban usage sounds like a great linguistics research subject - showing that Lojban&#039;s research usefulness is not limited to Sapir- Whorf.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Till next issue: co&#039;o lojbo&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Nos</name></author>
	</entry>
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